July 21, 2025 • 50 mins
Dr. Chris Holmes is a teacher and godly mentor to many. In this interview we discus his testimony, worship in the church, his work in the church and at Grace Christian Academy, and more.
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This episode was recorded on June 28, 2025.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
OK, I'm here today with Doctor Chris Holmes and Doctor Holmes,
I'm going to let you introduce yourself.
Gunner, thank you for the opportunity to be part of this
podcast today. And I'm sure most recently I've
been the head of school for British Christian Academy, a
role I served in for five years.And then prior to that, I was
(00:23):
the discipleship pastor at Yellow Creek Baptist Church for
almost 14 years, just sort of going back in time.
Before then, I was in Louisville, KY, at seminary, and
part of that I was working in Nashville as an analytical
chemist after I graduated from College in 1991.
I grew up in a small community in northern Middle Tennessee,
(00:47):
really right at the Tennessee Kentucky State line, and grew up
on a farm and learned a lot about how to work hard and good,
good work ethic and, you know, work skills and things like
that. Really credit a lot of that for
where I'm able to be even today.But that's a little bit about
me. Certainly.
I'm married to my wonderful wife, Beth, and we have one son,
(01:10):
Henry, and Henry will be a sophomore this fall.
And so the Lord's blessing us ina lot of wonderful ways.
That's great. And one thing I always like my
guests to do is share their testimony.
So I mean just as much as you'recomfortable with sharing and
just as long as you need. Sure.
Well, my my testimony is fairly straightforward.
(01:34):
I grew up in a home that was very committed to being active
in our local church. I grew up in a small
congregation out in the country,Pleasant Hill Baptist Church.
It's in Orlando, Tennessee and the same community where I grew
up. And as as a young person, I
(01:54):
began to understand clearly, youknow, of course, I've been
hearing it all my life, hearing the gospel, hearing the truth of
Scripture taught and prayed and,and sung.
And so as a young person, I, I realized that I needed to turn
from my sins and trust Christ inorder to be saved, in order to
to have eternal life, in order to be forgiven or to have a
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right relationship with God. And so I did that and obeyed the
gospel was baptized. I wasn't long after that that my
parents actually enrolled me in a private Christian School in
our county seat of Springfield, TN at the school that was then
Tabernacle Christian Academy today at South Haven Christian
(02:37):
School. But I enrolled there as a fourth
grader and ultimately finished out my high school education
there. And I credit it for really
helping to help establish in me a lot of understanding and
memorization of scripture, learning godly character, just
trying to be a faithful and growing follower of the Lord
(03:00):
Jesus Christ. Yeah, that's great.
And so after you graduated high school, you went to college.
Where'd you go to college? Yeah.
So I went to Lipscomb Universityin Nashville.
At that time it was David Lipscomb College.
I was thinking at that time about possibly going pre Med in
(03:21):
college. And so they had an excellent
acceptance rate into Med school.So I had a great program.
It was it was a, a small privateschool and it was, you know,
there were about 2000, maybe 2500 students there.
So it wasn't, you know, just gargantuan institution, but it
was a place where you could, youknow, just about seeing 1 you
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knew at any any given time. So I, I kind of like that.
But yeah, it was a great school and I honored a degree in
biochemistry from there and ultimately decided that that
medical school was not for me. Not, not, not only the physical
demands of being in Med school, but also just the emotional
(04:03):
demands that will also put upon me, you know, and with, with,
you know, having patients that you have difficult diagnosis,
right, death and then all sorts of things just really was
something I wasn't necessarily sure I wanted to pursue.
But the Lord also raised up an opportunity for me to go to work
as an analytical chemist, right,even before I finished my senior
year of college. And so I jumped on that with,
(04:25):
with my, one of my roommates actually, but we were both
offered jobs there and we workedthere for almost 10 years.
It was about 8 years, I guess. And so we were doing all sorts
of environmental analysis. We were analyzing soil and water
and wastewater samples for all kinds of things.
(04:46):
My root Med was was analyzing for all kinds of organic
compounds. I was analyzing for the
inorganic compounds, the the trace metal.
So, so I was, you know, for example, searching for lead and
drinking water and things like that.
Yeah. So, so we, we were very, we were
very active and that it was a very busy, very growing
laboratory, lots of business. We, we, we both spent lots of
(05:09):
hours there. Yeah.
And this is before we both got married and, and, and had
families. We began putting down roots.
And so we just had a lot of timethat we put into working at this
company. It was a great experience,
thankful for it, but but it was it was to come to an end because
the Lord over those years clearly was calling me into
(05:30):
vocational Christian ministry. And so I knew that the next step
for me needed to be seminary as much as possible.
I needed to to to focus myself on biblical and theological
studies and training. And so in 1999, my family and I
packed up and moved to Louisville where I attended the
Southern Baptist Theological Seminary and we were there for
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about 7 years. And through God's grace, I was
able to earn 3° from there, you know, culminating in the the PhD
in in which I stay Baptist history and Christian preaching.
Yeah. And I want to kind of rewindle
it because I didn't know about that about doing the the
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environmental chemistry stuff. That's fascinated me.
I think that's cool. Did you guys ever like like find
anything like concerning or likehave to like bust a company or
something like? That so, so that wasn't our
responsibility. The legalities were not a part
of our responsibility. You know, we, we were given
samples. I mean, our, our company paid
(06:35):
the shipping for companies all over the country and to ship
samples again either drinking water or wastewater or soil
samples that they they shipped them into to our company.
We prepared them, we analyzed them and then we reported the
results of it was it was each individual company or
individual's responsibility to take care of whatever they
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needed to do regarding what the samples showed.
Yeah, that's super cool. And then you're talking about
getting your. Was that an?
Well, not an M division, but I. Didn't earn an MDF?
Oh, OK. I earned a Master of Divinity,
and then a Master of Theology and a New Testament, and then,
like I said, a PhD in Christian preaching in Baptist history.
OK. And I know you're saying God LED
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you to to pursue that, but what about those specific those
areas, those specific areas kindof call that too?
Yeah, that's good. So, so I went into a seminary
thinking I might, you know, serve in some kind of associate
capacity in, in, in a congregation somewhere.
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And so I, I, I've already studied Christian worship as the
focus of my Master of Divinity and spend a lot of time looking
and, and diving into the, the whole reality of Christian
worship. And, and then ultimately when
the, when the Lord encouraged meto keep moving and, and prompted
me to keep moving forward in my education at seminary, I
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actually did my master of theology on worship in the New
Testament. Now what about it meant and how
we ought to understand that, apply that in our daily lives.
So that's, that's, that's kind of the direction that took, you
know, from from the beginning. Yeah.
That's awesome. And and then where did you go
from there after you graduated from?
(08:26):
Yeah, so, so I think so the way the PhD works is you student
typically does all of the on campus coursework.
Of course, you know that was 15 years ago, right?
Because you know, today so much of everything that's online now
and students can do a lot of their PhD work remotely, which
is a great advantage now that I didn't have then.
(08:48):
So, so then we had to finish allof our on campus material 1st
and then we could write our dissertation, which is that the
culminating part of the PhD, we could do that remotely.
So I didn't do that until after I actually moved to Owensboro.
So in 2006, I finished all of mydegree work and actually began
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communicating with Yellow Creek Baptist Church about the
possibility of, of joining theirministry staff and then serving
in, in the education and discipleship area of the
church's ministry. And so I did that like, like I
said, the end of 2006, very first part of 2007.
And then while I was here, I I wrote my dissertation and then
(09:30):
finished everything up and graduated with my doctorate in
2009. Yeah, would you write your
dissertation over? Yeah, so again, my, my, the
subjects, the primary areas of focus of my PhD were Christian
preaching and Baptist history. And so the subject of my
dissertation was sort of the best of both worlds.
I focused on a 17th century English Baptist pastor named
(09:56):
Benjamin Keach. He will be well known in in
certain circles, but perhaps notto others, but but for, but
really for Baptists far and wide.
He was very influential because he almost single handedly
brought hymn singing into publicworship.
(10:18):
Prior to that there were some churches that they didn't
believe you should even sing in public worship.
But everybody just needed to be perfectly quiet if we could sing
and make melody in our hearts, which is literally what the the
New Testament passage says in Ephesians 5 and Colossians 3.
But but but Keach was was interested in in not only
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singing as a part of corporate worship, but also singing songs
that didn't themselves necessarily come straight from
Scripture. In other words, he wanted to be
able to sing about Jesus in corporate worship and some so
you could sing songs in corporate worship.
But but they didn't mention Jesus by name, right?
(11:01):
They didn't mention him by name.And so he he believed it was
appropriate to Reich hymns and and and and songs that were
scripturally founded, scripturally solid and
theologically accurate, but thatmentioned Jesus by name.
It read it was appropriate for Christians to do that
corporately and certainly an individual and personal worship
(11:21):
too. And so I wrote on, I wrote on
Keach and his life and his ministry and specifically how he
used imagery in his sermons to help drive home the the truths
and the applications that he wanted his audience to, to get
from what he was preaching. Yeah.
And so that's just kind of made me think of this at the church I
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used to go to, for the one I go to now, there is a lot of old
folks there and but then there'salso younger people there.
And so there was always kind of this not argument, but there was
a bit of a clash over, well, arewe going to sing traditional
hymns or more contemporary music?
That's still Christian music, but it's not like it's not a
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hymn. And so then they would rotate.
There's one week we do hymns, one week we do contemporary.
And I'm just curious, from the research you've done on Cage,
what do you think he would thinkabout contemporary music in
church? Yeah, well, you know it.
It's easy to draw a lot of, you know, broad conclusions here,
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you know, But I, I, what I thinkwe need to, you know, just just
focus on is, is just the, the, the, the foundation of the whole
thing. Whatever we sing first and
foremost needs to be truthful and inaccurate as we are
praising the Lord, We, we don't want to be guilty of saying
things to him and about him thatare not faithful to what the
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Bible teaches, right? You know, and, and obviously
there are, there are many stylesthere, there are many, if you
will, genres of, of music that you can use so that a person
could use conceivably. But The thing is, is in our
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culture, we have taken music and, and, and, and like so many
other things, we have, we have our own individual tastes and
our own individual preferences about that.
And so we, we, we tend to connect that then to work to
what we're singing in worship, right.
And so I may like a, a certain style or, or certain genre,
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certain tempo, certain rhythms, things like that.
And, and someone else, you know,again, maybe someone who is
significantly older or younger than me may lack something
altogether different, you know, And so, So what a lot of
churches have found down throughthe years is that worship and
worship music can be a divisive element, right?
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You know, rather than the unifying element that it's
supposed to be, it becomes just the opposite.
And so, so we have to be very careful to think clearly about
worship music and make sure thatit's again, not only truthful,
bedrock truthful, but also that it's not serving as a divisive
means will be. And, and that really is a part
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of education, right? The congregation has to be
taught that because you know what, when, when, when, when
people watch the world and listen to to worldly music.
And when I, when I say worldly music, I say just just music.
It's not sacred, right? But when when people listen to
anything that's not sacred music, they are liable to, you
know, make the incorrect company, the incorrect
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understanding that they can, youknow, prefer one thing over the
other and that makes it better than another.
And, and that's a problem. So anyway, all all that to say
is we have to be really careful to instruct our people and our
churches that that they worship through music is supposed to be
something that brings us together.
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And so we have to be able to be humble and lay aside our
preferences for style and our preferences for certain genres
of music so that we can be accepting of others.
And that that works both ways. The younger have to be concerned
about the older and the older have to be concerned about the
younger. It does tend to be a
generational kind of thing, but it doesn't have to be that.
(15:23):
But again, humility needs to characterize the the attitude
with which we approach, with which we approach our our
worship, I think. Yeah, absolutely.
I mean just like so many other things in the Christian walk it
you want things to be other centered and not so.
Certain. That's right.
(15:44):
Yeah, I mean, I can't even imagine going to church when I
was singing. I would be weird.
It feel weird. Yeah.
And so like I said, Benjamin teach, you really have to
pioneer that, if you will for for Baptist.
And in fact, there there were inin his day.
Again, this is the latter part of the 17th century in the 1680s
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and 90s in particular. And, and a lot of folks were
just not comfortable with the idea of of singing worship.
In fact, they were people who left his church over it.
But but what he would do to to sort of introduce this is, is at
the end of their observance of the Lord's Supper, he would have
them sing to him and he could goback to Scripture and face it,
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you know, specifically on what the Bible says.
You know, after they'd summon him, they went out to the mouth
of all those. And so the the congregation
where he couldn't argue with that, right.
And so that's how he worked it in.
And over time it became more accepted and more comfortable
for them. And, and again, it began to to
spread the dead. There was a lot of printed
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debates about it back and forth.But again, in time there there
are a lot of folks who believed it to be a perfectly appropriate
and biblical practice. And was he directly connected at
all to the Baptist hymnal or wasthat later?
Yeah, so, so actually Keach himself wrote a lot of hymns.
(17:11):
Unfortunately, while his hymns might have been theologically
accurate, and while his hymns might have rhymed, they weren't
very artistic. OK.
And so if you go look up, I mean, there, there's some real
choice examples out there of Keach's hymn writing that was
just just really awful. Again, accurate and and
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truthful, but not attractive, not artistic and beautiful,
praiseworthy so. But fortunately, you know, it
wasn't going to be long before some really massive, massively
talented hymn writers for about as come on to sing like Isaac
Watts, Charles Wesley and others.
I'm going to Google One because I'm really curious about this.
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Well, he wrote, he wrote actually some hymns that he
actually published in two different books in again in the
late 17th century there. And again, some of them are
great. In fact, almost none of them to
my knowledge, are still in use today other than one that I can
think of. And so a lot of them have, just
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not they, they weren't long lasting, if you will.
But when they again, they did serve their purpose in helping
to establish him singing as a part of regular worship.
Yeah, I don't see anything coming up specifically for.
Yeah. But yeah, I'll have to look at
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that later. That's kind of funny.
But yeah, that's better than I'm.
I'm also really thankful that that he pioneered that because I
think worship is really a part of church that I mean, me and
lots of believers really connectwith and and it music makes
people feel emotions. It's just the way music is.
(19:02):
And whenever you're singing about the Lord and lifting up
his name, it really is a powerful thing.
Yeah. Yeah.
It's, yeah. It's, it's really interesting,
you know, the way music, as you said, does, you know, arouse
emotions and feelings. And as you know, some,
sometimes, you know, joy and sometimes sorrow, right.
Sometimes we're lamenting over our sin.
We're lamenting over our Lord Jesus who suffered and
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sacrificed himself for us. And then, you know, we're also
rejoicing in jubilant as we consider the resurrection and,
and our our future, you know, eternity with the Lord and just
all those sorts of things. But but as I said, you have to
approach it with humility because we so easily, well,
we'll latch onto a particular style or a particular format
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that we like and we'll insist that that's what has to be done,
right. And that's just simply not the
way it has to be. Reminds me of Fiddler on the
Roof when they're all traditionally.
Yes, that's Rossi's. Which I don't.
Yeah, I don't know. That's not a perfect example,
but. No, but I I see what you're
saying. And and sometimes tradition just
does become more in what he was intended to be.
(20:10):
Oh yeah. So after you finish your
dissertation and got your doctorand all that, you're working at
Yellow Creek. We're at Yellow Creek right now
in 2007. It's our January 1, 2007.
Actually, we moved in at that month and, and I was here for,
you know, quite a while and thenin the let's see if somewhere
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around 2018 or so, I crossed paths with some individuals who
wanted to get a Christian Schoolgoing and became part of the
initially the steering committeethat this part of getting that
school underway. And then ultimately I was a part
of the board that helped to to get the school moving forward.
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We were searching for a head of school, you know, just a, an
administrator for at school. And we interviewed a couple of
good candidates, but one did notlike us and, and, and we did not
like the other. And so we just, we weren't
having a lot of success with that.
And then, you know, time was ticking away because we were
supposed to start in August of 2020 and in February of 2020,
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you know, we still didn't have aclear candidate for that role.
And so we were getting a little concerned, frankly, I began to
wander in my own heart and then,you know, brought it to the
Lord. You know, Lord, would you have
me serve in some kind of interimcapacity, you know, until we
could find someone more permanent.
(21:45):
And it was sort of interesting how that how I had that thought
it was praying about it for a week.
And then on one one Monday morning in early February, Mike
Deckman called me. He was the the chairman of the
board. And then he suggested, Chris,
would you have any interest in being the head of school?
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And I said, well, Mike, I'm I'm open to do whatever the Lord
leads me to do. I've been praying about it.
I'll let you know none or not. An hour later, the senior pastor
here at Yellow Creek Baptist Church came to me and said you
think you ought to be the head of school for GCA.
Well. And so I couldn't deny, you
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know, the, the, the timeliness of, of those occurrences.
And so, so we all, we all prayedabout it.
I know the, the rest of the board members prayed about it.
And, you know, after a few days,the, it all seemed as if this
was the Lord's timing, the Lord's leading.
And so I believe officially on March the 8th of 2020, I was
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named as the Head of School for GCA.
Yeah. One week later, the nation shut
down due to COVID. Oh, yeah.
And so that, so that was a crazything.
You know, this was uncharted territory, you know, for all of
us, right? You know, what do we do now?
This this was something we didn't really expect.
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But, you know, it's crazy as that first year was.
The Lord was very kind and gracious to help us get through
all those unknowns and help us to, you know, navigate these
very uncertain waters. And he was he was always there.
He was always helping us out, even though it was like some
crazy year and a lot of things we didn't necessarily get to do
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that we wanted to, but but he helped us out in wonderful ways.
Yeah, that's great. So yeah, Torn.
Torn. It was weird.
Yes, it was for everyone. And so you guys, were you just
doing virtual the whole year? No, actually we were able to
meet in person most of the time from the time we started in
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August until I think he was somewhere around November or
Thanksgiving that year, we we were able to to continue to meet
in person. You know, the COVID really kind
of peaked earlier in the year and then it was in decline
through the summer when school started, but then it began to,
to, to increase again, if I'm not mistaken, toward the end of
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the year. And so with, with the increase
and all, of course, we didn't have any kind of vaccines or any
kind of way to, to deal with RedIris at this point.
I believe from around Thanksgiving until the end of
the year until the end of the calendar year, December 31st, we
went virtual at that point untilthe end of the year.
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But of course that was, you know, encompass a lot of other
things in there too, Christmas and, and all that.
But we were three or four weeks there without meeting in person.
And then when the new year rolled around, I believe we were
able to resume meeting in personand we never looked back.
Yeah. And that was that was really,
it's just kind of surreal to think about now that that
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happened and it almost feels like it didn't happen.
Well, I mean, in the moment it was, it was so real and so
strange, right? You know, and I still remember
driving around Owensboro, you know, during the the earlier
part of 2020 and, you know, and then that there's nobody out.
I mean, there's nobody on the roads, there's no traffic,
(25:23):
there's just nothing but the occasional car here and there.
So eerie and so strange. But, but, but thankfully we, we
have gotten through that and are, are, are moving forward
again. And, and, and you know, a lot, a
lot of things have recovered. I think, you know,
educationally, we, we see that alot of students not only
(25:44):
struggle during that time, but, but have continued to have
struggles after that time, right, for various reasons.
But nevertheless, you're moving forward and I'm grateful for
that. Yeah, me too.
So after COVID, well, you guys thought that was your first
year, right? That was our first year, yeah,
(26:04):
we that was 2020. So that was the first year.
And we at that time GCA just hadone class freshman and we had
nine students that started the trains you started.
We actually added one in Januaryand so we finished the year out
with 10. And then the next year you added
a freshman class. So the next year we had a
(26:25):
freshman class in addition to our now promoted sophomores and
we just yeah, keep going and. That that second freshman class
was the class I graduated with, right?
Yes, I believe so. And then and then you just kept
adding freshman classes until you had soccer.
(26:46):
Yeah, every grade. So, so we, we did that for two
years. We, we had freshman first and
then freshman sophomores. And then so at the end of that
second year, we decided that summer in between to start
school on the lower hand. So we added pre kindergarten and
(27:06):
kindergarten. Oh, that's right after that
second year. And so when we resumed our third
year of operation, we had freshmen and sophomores and
juniors as well as pre kindergarten and kindergarten.
So that's, that's how all that started.
And so then after our third year, we added grades one
through 4 and then we had our first graduating class and then
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that summer and, and into that next year that that fifth year
of operation. Then we had pre kindergarten all
the way up through 6th grade andadded 5th and 6th that that
fourth year at the end of the fourth year.
And of course, we already had pastel already filled out at
that point. And so that's, that's kind of
where we were at that point. And then this fall, GCA is
(27:54):
adding 7th grade. Yeah.
And Lord willing, I know that they plan to add 8th grade, you
know, after that. But at the end of this past
year, the 5th year that the highschool was open, y'all had to
close it down. Well, I'm, I don't really have a
(28:15):
lot that I can say about that because I was not part of that
decision. So, but yes, the decision was
made to suspend the high school and so I don't really know what
its future is going to be and I don't really want to speculate
about that at this point. OK, Well what we can talk more
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about just kind of how GCA operate and how it's different
than maybe going to a public high school or even a different
private Christian School becausethis would GCA is the second
private Christian School I've been to and it was really
different from the 1st. And even I had Frankie Roberts
who says hi. I had him on Frank the show a
(29:00):
few weeks ago and he was tellingme that he'd only ever been to
public school until he came to grace and so he couldn't really
compare it to other private schools.
And I told him like GCA is different than any school, even
other private schools. That's different in a good way.
So yeah, if you just kind of want to talk about what made GCA
different, what makes GCA different?
(29:20):
Well, yeah, I'm sure that in a lot of ways, either
intentionally or not, a lot of GC as at least her equalities
probably took on some of the characteristics of the Christian
School that I had been part of. That that was my primary
experience with Christian education was having gone
through a Christian School myself.
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And, and so I feel like a lot ofthe things that that were
characteristic of GCA, at least in those early years probably
reflected some of the things that I had been through myself.
And, and so again, there, there are lots of ways to have a
Christian School there, there are some Christian schools that
use video driven curriculum and,and students are allowed to move
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at their own speed for their classes and there are
facilitators available, but there may not be regular
traditional teachers in place. And so I'm aware that there's
some schools like that around and that's great as well that
there are schools that are more traditionally oriented like GCA,
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you know, where we have regular teachers who are there everyday
and teach and, and try to instruct the students in just,
you know, the regular subjects that are required for, for
graduation and being, you know, productive citizens in society,
right? That sort of thing.
So there there are lots of different models and then
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certainly there are even today with technology being what it
is, there are online options andonline curriculum options that
are available today in ways thatthey were not available even a
few years ago. So there are lots of things
there, but GCA has always been avery traditional model that, and
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that was our desire from the beginning.
It's not a classical school. We, we love and appreciate
classical Christian education, but we chose not to to pursue
that path, particularly given that our students, at least in
the beginning, were starting in high school, right?
And and so if they hadn't already had classical training
to that point, it's going to be hard to dive in as high school
(31:28):
students into that realm. So we elected not to do that,
even though we have much appreciation for that paradigm.
So a traditional Christian education is what we were
shooting for. And I believe that's what we
were able to deliver on. You know what we've had, we've
had two graduating classes and I'm, I'm thankful for, for all
of those students who were part of that.
(31:50):
I think that they got a good education and I feel like that
they got what they needed to be able to move forward into
whatever God might be leading them to, you know, into the next
steps of their lives. So, so I'm encouraged about
that. You know, I know that we're now
that we have now the GCA has an elementary classes.
(32:10):
You know, I've been able to see how, you know, those are, are
just wonderful opportunities forthese young people to begin
encountering the Bible and encountering the truth of the
gospel and biblical teaching in every subject, which is our
mission as G at GCA, that that'swhat the mission of the school
of is. And and so I'm seeing, you know,
(32:31):
kids encounter these things. It's changing their lives, it's
changing their families. There are just so many wonderful
things that are that are happening as a result of of what
the Lord's doing through GCA. So I'm just as pleased as I can
be to to see how the Lord's using it.
Yeah, absolutely. And one thing that really stuck
out to me as a student there andand you were talking about, you
(32:55):
feel like the graduating classeswere left equipped and, and
ready to take on the world. And as part of a graduating
class, I could say I definitely feel, I don't know if I would
say I'm ready to be an adult, but I definitely not.
I definitely think greatness GCAdefinitely equipment to to
(33:16):
handle the world and especially that personal finance class and
the government class, those two especially.
But yeah, that's one thing I like to have GCA is how everyone
had to take personal finance. I think that's great.
But one thing that the, the biggest thing for me at GCA was
just the faculty and you and this I was in Mr. Crop and, and
(33:39):
Mr. Hunt and your Sullivan, all of them.
And, and just how eager you guyswere to pour into us, not just
to teach us what you need to teach us to get us out the door,
but to actually make sure we understood the content and to
make sure that we were getting aChristian education that tying
everything back to the love of Christ and, and God's glory and
(34:02):
creation. And I always really appreciated
that. And then just how willing all of
you guys were to help us whenever we were struggling with
something. Yeah, we, we, we had students,
you know, all over the specter in terms of their, their ability
and their, their backgrounds andwhat they knew.
(34:23):
And, and so we, we, we tried to be a, an institution that was
able to, to meet every student where he or she was and bring
them forward to where they needed to be.
And so we, we, we tried very hard to do that.
And I feel like at least in mostcases, we were, we were
successful at that. Yeah.
Absolutely. And and you were the headmaster
(34:44):
where you actually taught some of some classes, right?
Yeah. So, so while I was in that role,
I was, I was the head of school,which means I was, you know,
sort of over the entire institution, even though other
people might been administratingdifferent parts of it.
So I was doing that as well as functioning as the high school
principal and also, yes, occasionally teaching some
(35:07):
classes. When we first started, I was we,
we didn't have a dedicated science teacher.
And so, so I got to teach the the science classes.
I taught physical science and I taught biology, you know, those
first two years. And then we were able to
actually bring on the science teacher.
He was sort of took it from there.
But I taught those two classes, you know, initially.
(35:28):
Then I also taught at a Bible class and even a cultural
geography class right before theend of this past year.
So I was just, you know, it while, while there's plenty to
do administratively, trust me, nevertheless, there just really
is in the substitute for being in classroom with the students.
So many LD interact with them and hear what they're thinking
(35:51):
and, and just you have to get a,a feel for for what they're
experiencing and, and feeling and believing in their lives.
And so you just can't replace that.
Yeah, absolutely. And before working at GCA, did
you ever see yourself being a teacher, have any desire to do
that? I have.
(36:14):
I have always. Well always.
This is a strange word. I have for much of my life been
aware that I enjoy teaching and interestingly, yet that the
small church I grew up in, they actually, you know, were, were
using me in various teaching roles when I was, you know,
(36:37):
still a relatively young person.And, but, but I've always
enjoyed teaching and, and, and while I didn't necessarily
expect to be, you know, necessary in Christian high
school, and I did not foresee that when I first came to
Owensboro, Nevertheless, you know, the Lord, I think was able
(36:57):
to, to, to use me in various teaching roles when I was on
staff at the other Creek BaptistChurch.
And, you know, the, so the, the transition was not all that
difficult to make once I moved into serving at a Greece
Christian Academy. So, yeah, I've, I've always
enjoyed teaching and I feel likeI'm at least reasonably
(37:20):
effective at it. Yeah, for sure I will.
I'm just glad the Lord's been able to to use me in in those
roles. Yeah, that's great.
And I mean, if you just want to go into just kind of how
intentional y'all were with sharing gospel truths with us
(37:41):
and and just Chapel and all of that, and then there's something
else, but I forgot. I'll think of it.
You think about it while I comment on your question.
Yeah. So, you know, so our, our
mission at GCA, you know, is about not only glorifying God,
(38:02):
but, but doing that specificallythrough, you know, equipping our
students with a solidly biblicaland theological Christian
worldview. And one of the things that's so
very important and then that andthat's so distinctive about
Christian education, at least what's supposed to be
(38:23):
distinctive about Christian education, as I see it, is that
students need to be able to see the world through the lens of
God's Word. Yeah.
So they have to know God's Word and then they have to be able to
see the world through the lens of Scripture and be able to
interpret and, and see things around them, decisions that are
(38:45):
being made, behaviors and political things and, and all
sorts of things, everything about life.
We have to be able to see it through God's Word.
And so we know why things are the way they are and how we're
supposed to respond to them, howwe're supposed to deal with
them, how we're supposed to dealwith and respond to and interact
(39:07):
with those around us, other people around us.
All of those things are things that can be taught in any
context. But are we teaching the word of
God alongside those other thingsand those other things?
And that, that's what's so vitalbecause you know, not, not just
(39:33):
the, the typical subjects of, you know, biology and other
things. You know, we, we, we know that
the classic Christian difficulties that are there with
biology and, and origins and evolution and things like that.
You know, that's that sort of classic difficulties right
there, you know, that, that Christians encounter when it
comes to, to education. But really Christian education
(39:56):
touches everything. You know, you mentioned
government a minute ago, you know, you mentioned personal
finance. You know how you handle your
money is connected to what God has said.
A bad money and I believe Dave Ramsey says that the Bible talks
more about money than it talks about a lots of other things
yeah you know and so we we need to have a a right and Christian
(40:18):
perspective on our money becausewe know that the love of money
is the root of all sorts of evil.
But we we have to, you know, we have to handle those things
faithfully biblically in order to to, you know, do what what
God want us to do, although withour own finances and then our
own decision making when it comes to money.
(40:40):
But also, you know, if if we're all doing that, that's going to
impact other people that communities and are you and are
even our national economy. All those things are connected
in some way. So we have to think about it
like that. But the bringing biblical truths
to bear in the classroom, you know, it's always been part and
(41:00):
parcel of what we have been trying to do at GCA, You know,
yeah. Whether it's for for the
youngest among us or even are our seniors, we all need to to
understand the world from the perspective of the Bible.
And so in Chapel, we, we, we with, with high school students,
high school Chapel, we, we try to bring out, you know, some,
(41:22):
some current events, things we, we try to talk about here, just
those, those typical struggles and areas where, you know, high
school teenagers are going to have some difficulties right
now. I mean, I mean, you know, you're
as as teenagers, they're they'refacing all kinds of temptations
and, and you know, there's so many, you know, changes and, and
(41:43):
things going on with them personally, physically,
emotionally, academically, and just about every Ave. or every
front. And So what we're, we're trying
to, to minister to the whole person and, and bring biblical
truth to bear on every one of these facets in a young person's
life. You know, and obviously, as
you've already said, you know, with, with these other subjects,
(42:04):
we're, we're trying to bring biblical trees to bear in those
areas so that so that we can seehow people have made mistakes,
how those things can be redeemedor, or forgiven or dealt with.
And are the proper biblical way unnecessary in the way that we
might, you know, in, in and of ourselves want to deal with
(42:25):
things or to be vengeful or to try to get some kind of
retribution in, in a certain circumstance.
Now what we want to understand, how would God have us respond
here? Are we responding selfishly or
are we responding compassionately?
How are we responding in a way that's going to glorify and
honor the Lord Jesus Christ and that that needs to be the the
(42:47):
ultimate decision making basis Reinforce.
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
That's great. I mean, I don't really have
anything understand that, but I just, I always appreciated how
you guys did that and and connected everything back to the
gospel. Yeah, well, you know, we, we as
(43:08):
as Christian educators at the school like ours, you know, the
education of the students first and foremost, according to
Scripture belongs to the parents.
Yeah, right. The parents first and foremost
are the ones who were charged with ensuring that their
children are learning the right things and, and learning those
(43:30):
things that they need to be not only productive citizens in
society, but by learning how to know and follow the one true
God, three and his son Jesus Christ.
And, and so we, we have been working very hard to, to, to be
the, the partners for the parents in this process.
(43:50):
You know, that that's, that's what we're doing.
You know, you have been the parents, you know, can't, can
take all of that responsibility on themselves.
And that's, that's great if, if,if they choose to do that, but
if they're not in a position to do that for whatever reason,
then we can be partners with them in that process and, and
give them their children the education that they need from a
Christian perspective. Yeah, absolutely.
(44:15):
Well, that's all I have, I think.
Is there anything else that you want to talk about anything or
it doesn't have to be in connection to anything we've
talked about here. Well, I mean, I, I can obviously
I can talk a lot about a lot of different things, but yeah, I
hope that I've been the course of our conversation and you
(44:38):
know, that I've been able to bring out the most important
things. That's, you know, each and every
person within earshot of this podcast first and foremost needs
to know the Lord Jesus Christ asSavior, that they need to obey
the gospel. They need to turn from their
sins and trust in Jesus Christ alone to save them from their
(44:58):
sins. They cannot be good enough.
They cannot do enough. They cannot accomplish enough
with their lives to glorify God or to please sin or to absolve
their sins. They can't do that and they have
to repent and believe in the oneGod has sent who lived
perfectly, never sinned and diedsubstitutionarily on the cross
(45:20):
to grant salvation to all those who will put their faith and
trust in him. So that's, that's the most
important thing I can say at this juncture is everyone needs
to believe in Jesus Christ. And, and then once you do, then,
then you follow him. You, you live your life in
accordance with the word of God.You, you're not going to do it
(45:42):
perfectly, just like I'm not going to do it perfectly.
But but you do it in, in such a way that that you're, you're
walking with him and then he is teaching you and, and he is
correcting you and, and he is helping you grow spiritually and
learn how to be faithful and so that you can then impart that to
(46:03):
others. Yeah, that's, that's the, the
great cycle we have. The Lord doesn't only save us
and, and, and give us spiritual gifts and then do these things
in our lives just for our benefit, but we're to pass them
on to other people. We were part of God's creation.
We are interdependent. And so even Gunners, I've tried
to pass some things along to you.
(46:25):
You in turn then should be taking things and passing them
on to others. You know that that will be your
old family one day, perhaps as well as, you know, all those
that you encounter in in business or in whatever field of
interest that the Lord puts you.Yeah, Amen.
Those are the those are the mostimportant things I can say.
(46:46):
Yeah, absolutely. And that's just, that's one
thing I really wanted to accomplish with the show is just
being able to share the love of Christ.
'S know with. People, and I think one of the
the best ways to do that is justhearing people, excuse me, is
hearing people's testimonies. Like someone said, every
(47:10):
testimony is a miracle. It is, it is.
And you know, while people may attempt to malign the Bible or,
or malign churches or things like that, you, you know, my
testimony is, is something you can't malign because you didn't
experience that. You didn't, you didn't go
(47:31):
through those things in the way that I did.
And so you can't malign it. You can either listen to it or
not right on you. You have that choice.
But but you can't, you can't alter or you can't undermine
what I've said because you didn't personally go through it.
I did. But yes, we all need to give
testimony and bear witness. Let the redeemed of the Lord say
so Scripture say this. And so we, we need to to put
(47:53):
that out there so the world can hear that our our Savior, the
Lord Jesus Christ is, is ready and willing to receive all those
who will come to him. Yeah.
And I think a lot of times it's easy for people to to deny the
Bible. Oh oh, it all happened 2000 plus
(48:13):
years ago. This is loaded baloney.
And they can that deny the love of God he'd been.
It's hard to talk to someone andlisten to their story and see
how they were once this way. Now they're this way.
And there's been this dramatic change in their life.
And you're sitting right across from them.
(48:35):
And in some cases, you've even seen the change yourself.
And that's so much harder to deny it.
Like, you can't just sit there and be like, no, that didn't
happen. Yeah.
But I I think it makes things a lot more personal.
Absolutely. Well, you have anything else
and. I don't think so.
(48:55):
I appreciate the opportunity to to share those few things that
I've said. And like I said, I hope it's
somehow or other an encouragement to your listeners.
And I'm just, you know, appreciate, you know, some time
to interact with you. Yeah, thanks for coming on the
show. Glad to be a part of it.
Thank you for inviting. Me, you're welcome.
Alright, I'll pray this out. Dear God, thank you for this
(49:17):
opportunity to talk to Doctor Holmes here.
And I just pray that you will use this show to help others.
And God, I just lay this show down at your feet.
I want it to be about you, not about me, or not even about my
guests. I want this show to be you,
about you, and I want you to useit however you see fit in your
(49:41):
Kingdom. And God, I pray that just
someone could really be touched by this interviewing and and
that the love of Christ will be shown to them through this.
And, and God, I just thank you for Doctor Holmes and, and the
impact he's had on so many people and just the community
here in Owensboro. And I pray a blessing over him
(50:02):
and his family. And I pray that you'll protect
them from schemes of the devil and that you'll continue to
empower them to do great Kingdomwork.
And Christ name I pray.
OK, I'm here today with Doctor Chris Holmes and Doctor Holmes,
I'm going to let you introduce yourself.
Gunner, thank you for the opportunity to be part of this
podcast today. And I'm sure most recently I've
been the head of school for British Christian Academy, a
role I served in for five years.And then prior to that, I was
(00:23):
the discipleship pastor at Yellow Creek Baptist Church for
almost 14 years, just sort of going back in time.
Before then, I was in Louisville, KY, at seminary, and
part of that I was working in Nashville as an analytical
chemist after I graduated from College in 1991.
I grew up in a small community in northern Middle Tennessee,
(00:47):
really right at the Tennessee Kentucky State line, and grew up
on a farm and learned a lot about how to work hard and good,
good work ethic and, you know, work skills and things like
that. Really credit a lot of that for
where I'm able to be even today.But that's a little bit about
me. Certainly.
I'm married to my wonderful wife, Beth, and we have one son,
(01:10):
Henry, and Henry will be a sophomore this fall.
And so the Lord's blessing us ina lot of wonderful ways.
That's great. And one thing I always like my
guests to do is share their testimony.
So I mean just as much as you'recomfortable with sharing and
just as long as you need. Sure.
Well, my my testimony is fairly straightforward.
(01:34):
I grew up in a home that was very committed to being active
in our local church. I grew up in a small
congregation out in the country,Pleasant Hill Baptist Church.
It's in Orlando, Tennessee and the same community where I grew
up. And as as a young person, I
(01:54):
began to understand clearly, youknow, of course, I've been
hearing it all my life, hearing the gospel, hearing the truth of
Scripture taught and prayed and,and sung.
And so as a young person, I, I realized that I needed to turn
from my sins and trust Christ inorder to be saved, in order to
to have eternal life, in order to be forgiven or to have a
(02:16):
right relationship with God. And so I did that and obeyed the
gospel was baptized. I wasn't long after that that my
parents actually enrolled me in a private Christian School in
our county seat of Springfield, TN at the school that was then
Tabernacle Christian Academy today at South Haven Christian
(02:37):
School. But I enrolled there as a fourth
grader and ultimately finished out my high school education
there. And I credit it for really
helping to help establish in me a lot of understanding and
memorization of scripture, learning godly character, just
trying to be a faithful and growing follower of the Lord
(03:00):
Jesus Christ. Yeah, that's great.
And so after you graduated high school, you went to college.
Where'd you go to college? Yeah.
So I went to Lipscomb Universityin Nashville.
At that time it was David Lipscomb College.
I was thinking at that time about possibly going pre Med in
(03:21):
college. And so they had an excellent
acceptance rate into Med school.So I had a great program.
It was it was a, a small privateschool and it was, you know,
there were about 2000, maybe 2500 students there.
So it wasn't, you know, just gargantuan institution, but it
was a place where you could, youknow, just about seeing 1 you
(03:42):
knew at any any given time. So I, I kind of like that.
But yeah, it was a great school and I honored a degree in
biochemistry from there and ultimately decided that that
medical school was not for me. Not, not, not only the physical
demands of being in Med school, but also just the emotional
(04:03):
demands that will also put upon me, you know, and with, with,
you know, having patients that you have difficult diagnosis,
right, death and then all sorts of things just really was
something I wasn't necessarily sure I wanted to pursue.
But the Lord also raised up an opportunity for me to go to work
as an analytical chemist, right,even before I finished my senior
year of college. And so I jumped on that with,
(04:25):
with my, one of my roommates actually, but we were both
offered jobs there and we workedthere for almost 10 years.
It was about 8 years, I guess. And so we were doing all sorts
of environmental analysis. We were analyzing soil and water
and wastewater samples for all kinds of things.
(04:46):
My root Med was was analyzing for all kinds of organic
compounds. I was analyzing for the
inorganic compounds, the the trace metal.
So, so I was, you know, for example, searching for lead and
drinking water and things like that.
Yeah. So, so we, we were very, we were
very active and that it was a very busy, very growing
laboratory, lots of business. We, we, we both spent lots of
(05:09):
hours there. Yeah.
And this is before we both got married and, and, and had
families. We began putting down roots.
And so we just had a lot of timethat we put into working at this
company. It was a great experience,
thankful for it, but but it was it was to come to an end because
the Lord over those years clearly was calling me into
(05:30):
vocational Christian ministry. And so I knew that the next step
for me needed to be seminary as much as possible.
I needed to to to focus myself on biblical and theological
studies and training. And so in 1999, my family and I
packed up and moved to Louisville where I attended the
Southern Baptist Theological Seminary and we were there for
(05:52):
about 7 years. And through God's grace, I was
able to earn 3° from there, you know, culminating in the the PhD
in in which I stay Baptist history and Christian preaching.
Yeah. And I want to kind of rewindle
it because I didn't know about that about doing the the
(06:14):
environmental chemistry stuff. That's fascinated me.
I think that's cool. Did you guys ever like like find
anything like concerning or likehave to like bust a company or
something like? That so, so that wasn't our
responsibility. The legalities were not a part
of our responsibility. You know, we, we were given
samples. I mean, our, our company paid
(06:35):
the shipping for companies all over the country and to ship
samples again either drinking water or wastewater or soil
samples that they they shipped them into to our company.
We prepared them, we analyzed them and then we reported the
results of it was it was each individual company or
individual's responsibility to take care of whatever they
(06:58):
needed to do regarding what the samples showed.
Yeah, that's super cool. And then you're talking about
getting your. Was that an?
Well, not an M division, but I. Didn't earn an MDF?
Oh, OK. I earned a Master of Divinity,
and then a Master of Theology and a New Testament, and then,
like I said, a PhD in Christian preaching in Baptist history.
OK. And I know you're saying God LED
(07:22):
you to to pursue that, but what about those specific those
areas, those specific areas kindof call that too?
Yeah, that's good. So, so I went into a seminary
thinking I might, you know, serve in some kind of associate
capacity in, in, in a congregation somewhere.
(07:44):
And so I, I, I've already studied Christian worship as the
focus of my Master of Divinity and spend a lot of time looking
and, and diving into the, the whole reality of Christian
worship. And, and then ultimately when
the, when the Lord encouraged meto keep moving and, and prompted
me to keep moving forward in my education at seminary, I
(08:06):
actually did my master of theology on worship in the New
Testament. Now what about it meant and how
we ought to understand that, apply that in our daily lives.
So that's, that's, that's kind of the direction that took, you
know, from from the beginning. Yeah.
That's awesome. And and then where did you go
from there after you graduated from?
(08:26):
Yeah, so, so I think so the way the PhD works is you student
typically does all of the on campus coursework.
Of course, you know that was 15 years ago, right?
Because you know, today so much of everything that's online now
and students can do a lot of their PhD work remotely, which
is a great advantage now that I didn't have then.
(08:48):
So, so then we had to finish allof our on campus material 1st
and then we could write our dissertation, which is that the
culminating part of the PhD, we could do that remotely.
So I didn't do that until after I actually moved to Owensboro.
So in 2006, I finished all of mydegree work and actually began
(09:08):
communicating with Yellow Creek Baptist Church about the
possibility of, of joining theirministry staff and then serving
in, in the education and discipleship area of the
church's ministry. And so I did that like, like I
said, the end of 2006, very first part of 2007.
And then while I was here, I I wrote my dissertation and then
(09:30):
finished everything up and graduated with my doctorate in
2009. Yeah, would you write your
dissertation over? Yeah, so again, my, my, the
subjects, the primary areas of focus of my PhD were Christian
preaching and Baptist history. And so the subject of my
dissertation was sort of the best of both worlds.
I focused on a 17th century English Baptist pastor named
(09:56):
Benjamin Keach. He will be well known in in
certain circles, but perhaps notto others, but but for, but
really for Baptists far and wide.
He was very influential because he almost single handedly
brought hymn singing into publicworship.
(10:18):
Prior to that there were some churches that they didn't
believe you should even sing in public worship.
But everybody just needed to be perfectly quiet if we could sing
and make melody in our hearts, which is literally what the the
New Testament passage says in Ephesians 5 and Colossians 3.
But but but Keach was was interested in in not only
(10:39):
singing as a part of corporate worship, but also singing songs
that didn't themselves necessarily come straight from
Scripture. In other words, he wanted to be
able to sing about Jesus in corporate worship and some so
you could sing songs in corporate worship.
But but they didn't mention Jesus by name, right?
(11:01):
They didn't mention him by name.And so he he believed it was
appropriate to Reich hymns and and and and songs that were
scripturally founded, scripturally solid and
theologically accurate, but thatmentioned Jesus by name.
It read it was appropriate for Christians to do that
corporately and certainly an individual and personal worship
(11:21):
too. And so I wrote on, I wrote on
Keach and his life and his ministry and specifically how he
used imagery in his sermons to help drive home the the truths
and the applications that he wanted his audience to, to get
from what he was preaching. Yeah.
And so that's just kind of made me think of this at the church I
(11:44):
used to go to, for the one I go to now, there is a lot of old
folks there and but then there'salso younger people there.
And so there was always kind of this not argument, but there was
a bit of a clash over, well, arewe going to sing traditional
hymns or more contemporary music?
That's still Christian music, but it's not like it's not a
(12:05):
hymn. And so then they would rotate.
There's one week we do hymns, one week we do contemporary.
And I'm just curious, from the research you've done on Cage,
what do you think he would thinkabout contemporary music in
church? Yeah, well, you know it.
It's easy to draw a lot of, you know, broad conclusions here,
(12:30):
you know, But I, I, what I thinkwe need to, you know, just just
focus on is, is just the, the, the, the foundation of the whole
thing. Whatever we sing first and
foremost needs to be truthful and inaccurate as we are
praising the Lord, We, we don't want to be guilty of saying
things to him and about him thatare not faithful to what the
(12:53):
Bible teaches, right? You know, and, and obviously
there are, there are many stylesthere, there are many, if you
will, genres of, of music that you can use so that a person
could use conceivably. But The thing is, is in our
(13:13):
culture, we have taken music and, and, and, and like so many
other things, we have, we have our own individual tastes and
our own individual preferences about that.
And so we, we, we tend to connect that then to work to
what we're singing in worship, right.
And so I may like a, a certain style or, or certain genre,
(13:36):
certain tempo, certain rhythms, things like that.
And, and someone else, you know,again, maybe someone who is
significantly older or younger than me may lack something
altogether different, you know, And so, So what a lot of
churches have found down throughthe years is that worship and
worship music can be a divisive element, right?
(13:57):
You know, rather than the unifying element that it's
supposed to be, it becomes just the opposite.
And so, so we have to be very careful to think clearly about
worship music and make sure thatit's again, not only truthful,
bedrock truthful, but also that it's not serving as a divisive
means will be. And, and that really is a part
(14:19):
of education, right? The congregation has to be
taught that because you know what, when, when, when, when
people watch the world and listen to to worldly music.
And when I, when I say worldly music, I say just just music.
It's not sacred, right? But when when people listen to
anything that's not sacred music, they are liable to, you
know, make the incorrect company, the incorrect
(14:40):
understanding that they can, youknow, prefer one thing over the
other and that makes it better than another.
And, and that's a problem. So anyway, all all that to say
is we have to be really careful to instruct our people and our
churches that that they worship through music is supposed to be
something that brings us together.
(15:01):
And so we have to be able to be humble and lay aside our
preferences for style and our preferences for certain genres
of music so that we can be accepting of others.
And that that works both ways. The younger have to be concerned
about the older and the older have to be concerned about the
younger. It does tend to be a
generational kind of thing, but it doesn't have to be that.
(15:23):
But again, humility needs to characterize the the attitude
with which we approach, with which we approach our our
worship, I think. Yeah, absolutely.
I mean just like so many other things in the Christian walk it
you want things to be other centered and not so.
Certain. That's right.
(15:44):
Yeah, I mean, I can't even imagine going to church when I
was singing. I would be weird.
It feel weird. Yeah.
And so like I said, Benjamin teach, you really have to
pioneer that, if you will for for Baptist.
And in fact, there there were inin his day.
Again, this is the latter part of the 17th century in the 1680s
(16:04):
and 90s in particular. And, and a lot of folks were
just not comfortable with the idea of of singing worship.
In fact, they were people who left his church over it.
But but what he would do to to sort of introduce this is, is at
the end of their observance of the Lord's Supper, he would have
them sing to him and he could goback to Scripture and face it,
(16:26):
you know, specifically on what the Bible says.
You know, after they'd summon him, they went out to the mouth
of all those. And so the the congregation
where he couldn't argue with that, right.
And so that's how he worked it in.
And over time it became more accepted and more comfortable
for them. And, and again, it began to to
spread the dead. There was a lot of printed
(16:47):
debates about it back and forth.But again, in time there there
are a lot of folks who believed it to be a perfectly appropriate
and biblical practice. And was he directly connected at
all to the Baptist hymnal or wasthat later?
Yeah, so, so actually Keach himself wrote a lot of hymns.
(17:11):
Unfortunately, while his hymns might have been theologically
accurate, and while his hymns might have rhymed, they weren't
very artistic. OK.
And so if you go look up, I mean, there, there's some real
choice examples out there of Keach's hymn writing that was
just just really awful. Again, accurate and and
(17:34):
truthful, but not attractive, not artistic and beautiful,
praiseworthy so. But fortunately, you know, it
wasn't going to be long before some really massive, massively
talented hymn writers for about as come on to sing like Isaac
Watts, Charles Wesley and others.
I'm going to Google One because I'm really curious about this.
(17:55):
Well, he wrote, he wrote actually some hymns that he
actually published in two different books in again in the
late 17th century there. And again, some of them are
great. In fact, almost none of them to
my knowledge, are still in use today other than one that I can
think of. And so a lot of them have, just
(18:18):
not they, they weren't long lasting, if you will.
But when they again, they did serve their purpose in helping
to establish him singing as a part of regular worship.
Yeah, I don't see anything coming up specifically for.
Yeah. But yeah, I'll have to look at
(18:40):
that later. That's kind of funny.
But yeah, that's better than I'm.
I'm also really thankful that that he pioneered that because I
think worship is really a part of church that I mean, me and
lots of believers really connectwith and and it music makes
people feel emotions. It's just the way music is.
(19:02):
And whenever you're singing about the Lord and lifting up
his name, it really is a powerful thing.
Yeah. Yeah.
It's, yeah. It's, it's really interesting,
you know, the way music, as you said, does, you know, arouse
emotions and feelings. And as you know, some,
sometimes, you know, joy and sometimes sorrow, right.
Sometimes we're lamenting over our sin.
We're lamenting over our Lord Jesus who suffered and
(19:25):
sacrificed himself for us. And then, you know, we're also
rejoicing in jubilant as we consider the resurrection and,
and our our future, you know, eternity with the Lord and just
all those sorts of things. But but as I said, you have to
approach it with humility because we so easily, well,
we'll latch onto a particular style or a particular format
(19:46):
that we like and we'll insist that that's what has to be done,
right. And that's just simply not the
way it has to be. Reminds me of Fiddler on the
Roof when they're all traditionally.
Yes, that's Rossi's. Which I don't.
Yeah, I don't know. That's not a perfect example,
but. No, but I I see what you're
saying. And and sometimes tradition just
does become more in what he was intended to be.
(20:10):
Oh yeah. So after you finish your
dissertation and got your doctorand all that, you're working at
Yellow Creek. We're at Yellow Creek right now
in 2007. It's our January 1, 2007.
Actually, we moved in at that month and, and I was here for,
you know, quite a while and thenin the let's see if somewhere
(20:35):
around 2018 or so, I crossed paths with some individuals who
wanted to get a Christian Schoolgoing and became part of the
initially the steering committeethat this part of getting that
school underway. And then ultimately I was a part
of the board that helped to to get the school moving forward.
(20:58):
We were searching for a head of school, you know, just a, an
administrator for at school. And we interviewed a couple of
good candidates, but one did notlike us and, and, and we did not
like the other. And so we just, we weren't
having a lot of success with that.
And then, you know, time was ticking away because we were
supposed to start in August of 2020 and in February of 2020,
(21:23):
you know, we still didn't have aclear candidate for that role.
And so we were getting a little concerned, frankly, I began to
wander in my own heart and then,you know, brought it to the
Lord. You know, Lord, would you have
me serve in some kind of interimcapacity, you know, until we
could find someone more permanent.
(21:45):
And it was sort of interesting how that how I had that thought
it was praying about it for a week.
And then on one one Monday morning in early February, Mike
Deckman called me. He was the the chairman of the
board. And then he suggested, Chris,
would you have any interest in being the head of school?
(22:07):
And I said, well, Mike, I'm I'm open to do whatever the Lord
leads me to do. I've been praying about it.
I'll let you know none or not. An hour later, the senior pastor
here at Yellow Creek Baptist Church came to me and said you
think you ought to be the head of school for GCA.
Well. And so I couldn't deny, you
(22:31):
know, the, the, the timeliness of, of those occurrences.
And so, so we all, we all prayedabout it.
I know the, the rest of the board members prayed about it.
And, you know, after a few days,the, it all seemed as if this
was the Lord's timing, the Lord's leading.
And so I believe officially on March the 8th of 2020, I was
(22:54):
named as the Head of School for GCA.
Yeah. One week later, the nation shut
down due to COVID. Oh, yeah.
And so that, so that was a crazything.
You know, this was uncharted territory, you know, for all of
us, right? You know, what do we do now?
This this was something we didn't really expect.
(23:16):
But, you know, it's crazy as that first year was.
The Lord was very kind and gracious to help us get through
all those unknowns and help us to, you know, navigate these
very uncertain waters. And he was he was always there.
He was always helping us out, even though it was like some
crazy year and a lot of things we didn't necessarily get to do
(23:36):
that we wanted to, but but he helped us out in wonderful ways.
Yeah, that's great. So yeah, Torn.
Torn. It was weird.
Yes, it was for everyone. And so you guys, were you just
doing virtual the whole year? No, actually we were able to
meet in person most of the time from the time we started in
(23:57):
August until I think he was somewhere around November or
Thanksgiving that year, we we were able to to continue to meet
in person. You know, the COVID really kind
of peaked earlier in the year and then it was in decline
through the summer when school started, but then it began to,
to, to increase again, if I'm not mistaken, toward the end of
(24:20):
the year. And so with, with the increase
and all, of course, we didn't have any kind of vaccines or any
kind of way to, to deal with RedIris at this point.
I believe from around Thanksgiving until the end of
the year until the end of the calendar year, December 31st, we
went virtual at that point untilthe end of the year.
(24:40):
But of course that was, you know, encompass a lot of other
things in there too, Christmas and, and all that.
But we were three or four weeks there without meeting in person.
And then when the new year rolled around, I believe we were
able to resume meeting in personand we never looked back.
Yeah. And that was that was really,
it's just kind of surreal to think about now that that
(25:01):
happened and it almost feels like it didn't happen.
Well, I mean, in the moment it was, it was so real and so
strange, right? You know, and I still remember
driving around Owensboro, you know, during the the earlier
part of 2020 and, you know, and then that there's nobody out.
I mean, there's nobody on the roads, there's no traffic,
(25:23):
there's just nothing but the occasional car here and there.
So eerie and so strange. But, but, but thankfully we, we
have gotten through that and are, are, are moving forward
again. And, and, and you know, a lot, a
lot of things have recovered. I think, you know,
educationally, we, we see that alot of students not only
(25:44):
struggle during that time, but, but have continued to have
struggles after that time, right, for various reasons.
But nevertheless, you're moving forward and I'm grateful for
that. Yeah, me too.
So after COVID, well, you guys thought that was your first
year, right? That was our first year, yeah,
(26:04):
we that was 2020. So that was the first year.
And we at that time GCA just hadone class freshman and we had
nine students that started the trains you started.
We actually added one in Januaryand so we finished the year out
with 10. And then the next year you added
a freshman class. So the next year we had a
(26:25):
freshman class in addition to our now promoted sophomores and
we just yeah, keep going and. That that second freshman class
was the class I graduated with, right?
Yes, I believe so. And then and then you just kept
adding freshman classes until you had soccer.
(26:46):
Yeah, every grade. So, so we, we did that for two
years. We, we had freshman first and
then freshman sophomores. And then so at the end of that
second year, we decided that summer in between to start
school on the lower hand. So we added pre kindergarten and
(27:06):
kindergarten. Oh, that's right after that
second year. And so when we resumed our third
year of operation, we had freshmen and sophomores and
juniors as well as pre kindergarten and kindergarten.
So that's, that's how all that started.
And so then after our third year, we added grades one
through 4 and then we had our first graduating class and then
(27:32):
that summer and, and into that next year that that fifth year
of operation. Then we had pre kindergarten all
the way up through 6th grade andadded 5th and 6th that that
fourth year at the end of the fourth year.
And of course, we already had pastel already filled out at
that point. And so that's, that's kind of
where we were at that point. And then this fall, GCA is
(27:54):
adding 7th grade. Yeah.
And Lord willing, I know that they plan to add 8th grade, you
know, after that. But at the end of this past
year, the 5th year that the highschool was open, y'all had to
close it down. Well, I'm, I don't really have a
(28:15):
lot that I can say about that because I was not part of that
decision. So, but yes, the decision was
made to suspend the high school and so I don't really know what
its future is going to be and I don't really want to speculate
about that at this point. OK, Well what we can talk more
(28:36):
about just kind of how GCA operate and how it's different
than maybe going to a public high school or even a different
private Christian School becausethis would GCA is the second
private Christian School I've been to and it was really
different from the 1st. And even I had Frankie Roberts
who says hi. I had him on Frank the show a
(29:00):
few weeks ago and he was tellingme that he'd only ever been to
public school until he came to grace and so he couldn't really
compare it to other private schools.
And I told him like GCA is different than any school, even
other private schools. That's different in a good way.
So yeah, if you just kind of want to talk about what made GCA
different, what makes GCA different?
(29:20):
Well, yeah, I'm sure that in a lot of ways, either
intentionally or not, a lot of GC as at least her equalities
probably took on some of the characteristics of the Christian
School that I had been part of. That that was my primary
experience with Christian education was having gone
through a Christian School myself.
(29:42):
And, and so I feel like a lot ofthe things that that were
characteristic of GCA, at least in those early years probably
reflected some of the things that I had been through myself.
And, and so again, there, there are lots of ways to have a
Christian School there, there are some Christian schools that
use video driven curriculum and,and students are allowed to move
(30:06):
at their own speed for their classes and there are
facilitators available, but there may not be regular
traditional teachers in place. And so I'm aware that there's
some schools like that around and that's great as well that
there are schools that are more traditionally oriented like GCA,
(30:26):
you know, where we have regular teachers who are there everyday
and teach and, and try to instruct the students in just,
you know, the regular subjects that are required for, for
graduation and being, you know, productive citizens in society,
right? That sort of thing.
So there there are lots of different models and then
(30:47):
certainly there are even today with technology being what it
is, there are online options andonline curriculum options that
are available today in ways thatthey were not available even a
few years ago. So there are lots of things
there, but GCA has always been avery traditional model that, and
(31:07):
that was our desire from the beginning.
It's not a classical school. We, we love and appreciate
classical Christian education, but we chose not to to pursue
that path, particularly given that our students, at least in
the beginning, were starting in high school, right?
And and so if they hadn't already had classical training
to that point, it's going to be hard to dive in as high school
(31:28):
students into that realm. So we elected not to do that,
even though we have much appreciation for that paradigm.
So a traditional Christian education is what we were
shooting for. And I believe that's what we
were able to deliver on. You know what we've had, we've
had two graduating classes and I'm, I'm thankful for, for all
of those students who were part of that.
(31:50):
I think that they got a good education and I feel like that
they got what they needed to be able to move forward into
whatever God might be leading them to, you know, into the next
steps of their lives. So, so I'm encouraged about
that. You know, I know that we're now
that we have now the GCA has an elementary classes.
(32:10):
You know, I've been able to see how, you know, those are, are
just wonderful opportunities forthese young people to begin
encountering the Bible and encountering the truth of the
gospel and biblical teaching in every subject, which is our
mission as G at GCA, that that'swhat the mission of the school
of is. And and so I'm seeing, you know,
(32:31):
kids encounter these things. It's changing their lives, it's
changing their families. There are just so many wonderful
things that are that are happening as a result of of what
the Lord's doing through GCA. So I'm just as pleased as I can
be to to see how the Lord's using it.
Yeah, absolutely. And one thing that really stuck
out to me as a student there andand you were talking about, you
(32:55):
feel like the graduating classeswere left equipped and, and
ready to take on the world. And as part of a graduating
class, I could say I definitely feel, I don't know if I would
say I'm ready to be an adult, but I definitely not.
I definitely think greatness GCAdefinitely equipment to to
(33:16):
handle the world and especially that personal finance class and
the government class, those two especially.
But yeah, that's one thing I like to have GCA is how everyone
had to take personal finance. I think that's great.
But one thing that the, the biggest thing for me at GCA was
just the faculty and you and this I was in Mr. Crop and, and
(33:39):
Mr. Hunt and your Sullivan, all of them.
And, and just how eager you guyswere to pour into us, not just
to teach us what you need to teach us to get us out the door,
but to actually make sure we understood the content and to
make sure that we were getting aChristian education that tying
everything back to the love of Christ and, and God's glory and
(34:02):
creation. And I always really appreciated
that. And then just how willing all of
you guys were to help us whenever we were struggling with
something. Yeah, we, we, we had students,
you know, all over the specter in terms of their, their ability
and their, their backgrounds andwhat they knew.
(34:23):
And, and so we, we, we tried to be a, an institution that was
able to, to meet every student where he or she was and bring
them forward to where they needed to be.
And so we, we, we tried very hard to do that.
And I feel like at least in mostcases, we were, we were
successful at that. Yeah.
Absolutely. And and you were the headmaster
(34:44):
where you actually taught some of some classes, right?
Yeah. So, so while I was in that role,
I was, I was the head of school,which means I was, you know,
sort of over the entire institution, even though other
people might been administratingdifferent parts of it.
So I was doing that as well as functioning as the high school
principal and also, yes, occasionally teaching some
(35:07):
classes. When we first started, I was we,
we didn't have a dedicated science teacher.
And so, so I got to teach the the science classes.
I taught physical science and I taught biology, you know, those
first two years. And then we were able to
actually bring on the science teacher.
He was sort of took it from there.
But I taught those two classes, you know, initially.
(35:28):
Then I also taught at a Bible class and even a cultural
geography class right before theend of this past year.
So I was just, you know, it while, while there's plenty to
do administratively, trust me, nevertheless, there just really
is in the substitute for being in classroom with the students.
So many LD interact with them and hear what they're thinking
(35:51):
and, and just you have to get a,a feel for for what they're
experiencing and, and feeling and believing in their lives.
And so you just can't replace that.
Yeah, absolutely. And before working at GCA, did
you ever see yourself being a teacher, have any desire to do
that? I have.
(36:14):
I have always. Well always.
This is a strange word. I have for much of my life been
aware that I enjoy teaching and interestingly, yet that the
small church I grew up in, they actually, you know, were, were
using me in various teaching roles when I was, you know,
(36:37):
still a relatively young person.And, but, but I've always
enjoyed teaching and, and, and while I didn't necessarily
expect to be, you know, necessary in Christian high
school, and I did not foresee that when I first came to
Owensboro, Nevertheless, you know, the Lord, I think was able
(36:57):
to, to, to use me in various teaching roles when I was on
staff at the other Creek BaptistChurch.
And, you know, the, so the, the transition was not all that
difficult to make once I moved into serving at a Greece
Christian Academy. So, yeah, I've, I've always
enjoyed teaching and I feel likeI'm at least reasonably
(37:20):
effective at it. Yeah, for sure I will.
I'm just glad the Lord's been able to to use me in in those
roles. Yeah, that's great.
And I mean, if you just want to go into just kind of how
intentional y'all were with sharing gospel truths with us
(37:41):
and and just Chapel and all of that, and then there's something
else, but I forgot. I'll think of it.
You think about it while I comment on your question.
Yeah. So, you know, so our, our
mission at GCA, you know, is about not only glorifying God,
(38:02):
but, but doing that specificallythrough, you know, equipping our
students with a solidly biblicaland theological Christian
worldview. And one of the things that's so
very important and then that andthat's so distinctive about
Christian education, at least what's supposed to be
(38:23):
distinctive about Christian education, as I see it, is that
students need to be able to see the world through the lens of
God's Word. Yeah.
So they have to know God's Word and then they have to be able to
see the world through the lens of Scripture and be able to
interpret and, and see things around them, decisions that are
(38:45):
being made, behaviors and political things and, and all
sorts of things, everything about life.
We have to be able to see it through God's Word.
And so we know why things are the way they are and how we're
supposed to respond to them, howwe're supposed to deal with
them, how we're supposed to dealwith and respond to and interact
(39:07):
with those around us, other people around us.
All of those things are things that can be taught in any
context. But are we teaching the word of
God alongside those other thingsand those other things?
And that, that's what's so vitalbecause you know, not, not just
(39:33):
the, the typical subjects of, you know, biology and other
things. You know, we, we, we know that
the classic Christian difficulties that are there with
biology and, and origins and evolution and things like that.
You know, that's that sort of classic difficulties right
there, you know, that, that Christians encounter when it
comes to, to education. But really Christian education
(39:56):
touches everything. You know, you mentioned
government a minute ago, you know, you mentioned personal
finance. You know how you handle your
money is connected to what God has said.
A bad money and I believe Dave Ramsey says that the Bible talks
more about money than it talks about a lots of other things
yeah you know and so we we need to have a a right and Christian
(40:18):
perspective on our money becausewe know that the love of money
is the root of all sorts of evil.
But we we have to, you know, we have to handle those things
faithfully biblically in order to to, you know, do what what
God want us to do, although withour own finances and then our
own decision making when it comes to money.
(40:40):
But also, you know, if if we're all doing that, that's going to
impact other people that communities and are you and are
even our national economy. All those things are connected
in some way. So we have to think about it
like that. But the bringing biblical truths
to bear in the classroom, you know, it's always been part and
(41:00):
parcel of what we have been trying to do at GCA, You know,
yeah. Whether it's for for the
youngest among us or even are our seniors, we all need to to
understand the world from the perspective of the Bible.
And so in Chapel, we, we, we with, with high school students,
high school Chapel, we, we try to bring out, you know, some,
(41:22):
some current events, things we, we try to talk about here, just
those, those typical struggles and areas where, you know, high
school teenagers are going to have some difficulties right
now. I mean, I mean, you know, you're
as as teenagers, they're they'refacing all kinds of temptations
and, and you know, there's so many, you know, changes and, and
(41:43):
things going on with them personally, physically,
emotionally, academically, and just about every Ave. or every
front. And So what we're, we're trying
to, to minister to the whole person and, and bring biblical
truth to bear on every one of these facets in a young person's
life. You know, and obviously, as
you've already said, you know, with, with these other subjects,
(42:04):
we're, we're trying to bring biblical trees to bear in those
areas so that so that we can seehow people have made mistakes,
how those things can be redeemedor, or forgiven or dealt with.
And are the proper biblical way unnecessary in the way that we
might, you know, in, in and of ourselves want to deal with
(42:25):
things or to be vengeful or to try to get some kind of
retribution in, in a certain circumstance.
Now what we want to understand, how would God have us respond
here? Are we responding selfishly or
are we responding compassionately?
How are we responding in a way that's going to glorify and
honor the Lord Jesus Christ and that that needs to be the the
(42:47):
ultimate decision making basis Reinforce.
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
That's great. I mean, I don't really have
anything understand that, but I just, I always appreciated how
you guys did that and and connected everything back to the
gospel. Yeah, well, you know, we, we as
(43:08):
as Christian educators at the school like ours, you know, the
education of the students first and foremost, according to
Scripture belongs to the parents.
Yeah, right. The parents first and foremost
are the ones who were charged with ensuring that their
children are learning the right things and, and learning those
(43:30):
things that they need to be not only productive citizens in
society, but by learning how to know and follow the one true
God, three and his son Jesus Christ.
And, and so we, we have been working very hard to, to, to be
the, the partners for the parents in this process.
(43:50):
You know, that that's, that's what we're doing.
You know, you have been the parents, you know, can't, can
take all of that responsibility on themselves.
And that's, that's great if, if,if they choose to do that, but
if they're not in a position to do that for whatever reason,
then we can be partners with them in that process and, and
give them their children the education that they need from a
Christian perspective. Yeah, absolutely.
(44:15):
Well, that's all I have, I think.
Is there anything else that you want to talk about anything or
it doesn't have to be in connection to anything we've
talked about here. Well, I mean, I, I can obviously
I can talk a lot about a lot of different things, but yeah, I
hope that I've been the course of our conversation and you
(44:38):
know, that I've been able to bring out the most important
things. That's, you know, each and every
person within earshot of this podcast first and foremost needs
to know the Lord Jesus Christ asSavior, that they need to obey
the gospel. They need to turn from their
sins and trust in Jesus Christ alone to save them from their
(44:58):
sins. They cannot be good enough.
They cannot do enough. They cannot accomplish enough
with their lives to glorify God or to please sin or to absolve
their sins. They can't do that and they have
to repent and believe in the oneGod has sent who lived
perfectly, never sinned and diedsubstitutionarily on the cross
(45:20):
to grant salvation to all those who will put their faith and
trust in him. So that's, that's the most
important thing I can say at this juncture is everyone needs
to believe in Jesus Christ. And, and then once you do, then,
then you follow him. You, you live your life in
accordance with the word of God.You, you're not going to do it
(45:42):
perfectly, just like I'm not going to do it perfectly.
But but you do it in, in such a way that that you're, you're
walking with him and then he is teaching you and, and he is
correcting you and, and he is helping you grow spiritually and
learn how to be faithful and so that you can then impart that to
(46:03):
others. Yeah, that's, that's the, the
great cycle we have. The Lord doesn't only save us
and, and, and give us spiritual gifts and then do these things
in our lives just for our benefit, but we're to pass them
on to other people. We were part of God's creation.
We are interdependent. And so even Gunners, I've tried
to pass some things along to you.
(46:25):
You in turn then should be taking things and passing them
on to others. You know that that will be your
old family one day, perhaps as well as, you know, all those
that you encounter in in business or in whatever field of
interest that the Lord puts you.Yeah, Amen.
Those are the those are the mostimportant things I can say.
(46:46):
Yeah, absolutely. And that's just, that's one
thing I really wanted to accomplish with the show is just
being able to share the love of Christ.
'S know with. People, and I think one of the
the best ways to do that is justhearing people, excuse me, is
hearing people's testimonies. Like someone said, every
(47:10):
testimony is a miracle. It is, it is.
And you know, while people may attempt to malign the Bible or,
or malign churches or things like that, you, you know, my
testimony is, is something you can't malign because you didn't
experience that. You didn't, you didn't go
(47:31):
through those things in the way that I did.
And so you can't malign it. You can either listen to it or
not right on you. You have that choice.
But but you can't, you can't alter or you can't undermine
what I've said because you didn't personally go through it.
I did. But yes, we all need to give
testimony and bear witness. Let the redeemed of the Lord say
so Scripture say this. And so we, we need to to put
(47:53):
that out there so the world can hear that our our Savior, the
Lord Jesus Christ is, is ready and willing to receive all those
who will come to him. Yeah.
And I think a lot of times it's easy for people to to deny the
Bible. Oh oh, it all happened 2000 plus
(48:13):
years ago. This is loaded baloney.
And they can that deny the love of God he'd been.
It's hard to talk to someone andlisten to their story and see
how they were once this way. Now they're this way.
And there's been this dramatic change in their life.
And you're sitting right across from them.
(48:35):
And in some cases, you've even seen the change yourself.
And that's so much harder to deny it.
Like, you can't just sit there and be like, no, that didn't
happen. Yeah.
But I I think it makes things a lot more personal.
Absolutely. Well, you have anything else
and. I don't think so.
(48:55):
I appreciate the opportunity to to share those few things that
I've said. And like I said, I hope it's
somehow or other an encouragement to your listeners.
And I'm just, you know, appreciate, you know, some time
to interact with you. Yeah, thanks for coming on the
show. Glad to be a part of it.
Thank you for inviting. Me, you're welcome.
Alright, I'll pray this out. Dear God, thank you for this
(49:17):
opportunity to talk to Doctor Holmes here.
And I just pray that you will use this show to help others.
And God, I just lay this show down at your feet.
I want it to be about you, not about me, or not even about my
guests. I want this show to be you,
about you, and I want you to useit however you see fit in your
(49:41):
Kingdom. And God, I pray that just
someone could really be touched by this interviewing and and
that the love of Christ will be shown to them through this.
And, and God, I just thank you for Doctor Holmes and, and the
impact he's had on so many people and just the community
here in Owensboro. And I pray a blessing over him
(50:02):
and his family. And I pray that you'll protect
them from schemes of the devil and that you'll continue to
empower them to do great Kingdomwork.
And Christ name I pray.
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