Lee Moore

Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
OK, I'm here today with Lee Moore.
He's a good friend of mine. And we met last year.
We we met around, I guess, February or March.
Me and my sister started going to the Westwood Young Life.

(00:22):
Yeah, I don't know what it was called.
Thing is called the the young young adult ministry or
something like that, OK. And but it was for like college
age students and of course me, Iwas a high school senior, but
Christian said I could come and and so you.
Westwood's youth ministry part was partnering with campus

(00:44):
outage. Because there's a lot of kids
there. I hope most are all the kids
there. Yeah, most of them for from USI
because you know, USI is right down the street.
But we also had a few people that, you know, went to UE and
you know, we just had a big community.
Everyone either they went to Westwood or they went to, you

(01:04):
know, different churches. But we all came together Tuesday
night for a meal, but also for the main important thing, which
is Christ. Yeah, And you just graduated
from USI? Yep.
So I graduated my masters in social work and yeah, it's been
like a long six years. So I spent all six years here at
USI and yeah, now I'm going to do a little bit more of what I

(01:31):
like to do, which is, you know, therapy.
And so I work at Empowerment Behavioral Services.
And with that, there's like two sides of it that I work work
with because I wear many hats inthe company.
Yeah. And so, no, the first one is
like being like a behavior specialist.
So I work with people that have intellectual disabilities and

(01:54):
for like, you know, the people that may not know what that is
like. So thinking like someone that
might have like Down syndrome orsomeone that has like autism or
like a, you know, severe case oflike ADHD or anything like that.
And kind of help them through like any like behaviors that
they may be going through which,you know, it could be like

(02:16):
aggression or it may be, you know, the fact that they may
like arguing a lot or just, it just varies on what it is.
But we identify like what's likethe antecedent behind it or
what's like the cause of like the behaviors.
And then we kind of work towardswhen those behaviors happen or

(02:38):
before those behaviors happen. What can you do in order to, you
know, calm yourself down or justnot do it in general?
But obviously like the main goalis to help them live as
independently as possible. So obviously, like, if they're
not 18 yet, then we'll encouragethem to, you know, build up

(03:00):
those skills so when they do turn 18 to go out and get an
apartment and go get a job. Yeah, driver's license
everything. Because, you know, they're human
too. So right to, you know, help them
with that. And then on the other side of
that, work with people that havelike been to prison, they have
like felonies and everything like that.
But the main thing is just like,you know, we work with them

(03:22):
because they have like a substance use disorder and
they're being referred to us. But with that, you know, we we
don't really focus much on like the substance abuse.
Like we know well, like that's why they got in trouble, right?
Or like that. But you know, they also have
like, you know, some other issues that that we could like

(03:45):
go through, maybe like some trauma that kind of pushed them
towards using drugs or, you know, or, you know, they just
they ran in their family because, you know, shows
biologically that, you know, if you if you your parents had like
a undiagnosed substance use disorder or diagnosed substance
use disorder, you know, their kids and grandchildren are more

(04:08):
likely to get a substance use disorder.
So, right, that plays a role in something like our clients
lives. Yeah.
But you know, main thing is addressing like some of the
issues that they may be going through and obviously treating
them like people in a world thatsees like a felon.
And they're just like, Oh no, like they're indecent or they're

(04:30):
not a good member of society, right.
But we treat them as people and you start to see that, you know,
they start to act like a normal person, like a a good member of
society, as long as you don't treat them as their label, you
know? Yeah, that's awesome.
And what made you want to get into that line of work?

(04:51):
So I was always just like a caring person, feel like I was
just born with that trait. I thought about it and yesterday
where it was just like, you know, I was always like that kid
where like, you know, someone was like, heard her crying.
I reach out to them, make sure they're good.
I'm getting like, a little pat on the back.

(05:12):
And then, like, my parents instilled in me, like helping
like the people that I don't have as much as me.
Yeah. And so, you know, we'll go out
in downtown Chicago or just any part of Chicago.
And we would just, we would justtalk about, you know, bringing

(05:33):
other people to Christ but also helping out the homeless
population as well. And so, you know, I used to go
out there all the time, hand outfood and hand out clothing, you
know, reach out to, like, other organizations where there was
like, you know, through my school or, you know, me and my
family. And we would just go and go help

(05:56):
those people. And so they kind of just helped
reinforce the fact that, you know, I want to help people.
Yeah. And so I didn't necessarily know
what route I was going to take growing up, but eventually it
led me to social work. And so I feel like I get to help
as many people as possible. That's great.
And and what's the name of the company you work for?

(06:20):
Empowerment Behavioral Services,LLC.
And is that a ministry or do youis this like is just a company
that just is focused on like helping like counseling wise?
Yeah. So it's a company that's focused
on just like helping people out in the community no matter what
it is. It's changed a lot over the

(06:42):
years. At first it was like mainly like
behavior services. And so I'm going back to that
population with intellectual disabilities.
But, you know, I feel like ever since, you know, like I got
there and, you know, people before me, it started slowly
shifting into the more like therapeutic, so therapeutic

(07:03):
aspect. So, you know, we're doing like a
lot of outpatient services and like I said, you know, working
with people that like been to jail and also, you know, that's
not the only population we work with, but you know, we receive
anyone that needs it, these services.
So, yeah, we don't really deny anyone from services unless like

(07:24):
they're just like, you know, if our services will not match
anything that they need, right? But you know, we make sure that
we help anyone because it's, youknow, everyone needs some type
of help in the world and will bethere for people.
Yeah. And and as you're counseling

(07:45):
people do, is it the type of thing where you see someone and
then you're probably not going to see them again or are you
having like regular meetings? Yeah.
So we have regular meetings likeI'll tell you about like my
caseload. So I have some people that I see
weekly because, you know, they just need that because they've

(08:07):
been through a lot and you know,I would have like concerns like
if I didn't meet with them weekly.
And so yeah, for some clients, like I meet with them weekly.
Other clients, I mean, with thembi weekly or or even monthly
because you know, they're just, they're just doing that good.

(08:27):
You know, you know, they're not really any like concerns about
rank them going back to you who's or any concerns about, you
know, them doing something that would put them back in jail.
And so and so, yeah, we've been working a lot.
And then also with that, we alsohave like group therapy.

(08:49):
And so with that we do a thing called a prime for life, which
is like a evidence based treatment that kind of hurts
people in understanding how an addiction is formed.
Yeah. And sure, like the main focus
would be, you know, drugs and alcohol, but they it applies to
anything like I always mentionedin the groups that, you know,

(09:13):
how many people are like addicted to their phones or how
many Greg were like addicted to coffee and then like that.
So basically an, an addiction could be formed in any, any like
type of way and anyone can be affected by it.
So just using that not to informthem and hopefully they inform
their children or inform like their families, other people

(09:35):
that they may know in their lives.
So that, you know, we can createlike a society that understands
what addiction is and how to prevent to.
And then we also have like a relapse prevention.
Obviously main focus of that is,you know, like drugs and
alcohol, really getting them to reflect on, you know, their

(09:57):
life, their actions, and then having them think about what
they can do in the future. So like, just prepping them for
for life outside of probation orcommunity corrections, really
just preparing them for like a sober life, you know, given the
tools to stay away from like George and alcohol.

(10:20):
Yeah. But also, you know, finding
goals for themselves, you know, and having something that they
want to achieve because for now,at this point, like most of
them, like, you know, they stay at home.
They can't really leave because,you know, house arrest or, you
know, if they do get to leave somewhere, you know, they have

(10:41):
to inform their officers everything like that.
And I tell them shut up. Yes, I understand.
I can get really depressing. So that's why we focus on, you
know, finding something to do even though you're in the
situation, but also finding something to do while when
you're outside of the situation.Yeah.
So. Yeah, I think something I've

(11:03):
personally found and I've seen, I mean, just a lot of successful
people do is just setting goals and just always having something
that you're sharpened towards and not being just kind of
lethargic and just going throughlife, but actually have
something what's like productivethat you're doing.
And then not just I mean that not only is going to benefit

(11:25):
you, it's it gives you, I mean, our sense of purpose shouldn't
be coming from goals, but it does give you a sense of like,
Hey, I'm actually doing something to and a great goal to
have our our Kingdom minded. Goals.
Yeah, of course. Exactly.
Yeah, a lot of the clients we'vementioned in Group like because

(11:46):
most of them are like believers as well and they always quote
scripture and it's like, you know, they say idle hands is,
you know, like the devil's playground.
So and so you know, we always, we work with them through that
to, you know, not be idle to seewhat they can do so they can
stay busy, right. So they're not thinking about
going back to using grain type that.

(12:09):
And one of the the most impactful things I've ever heard
was just this kind of talk aboutlike setting ambitious goals,
just crazy goals. Like what is your dream job?
Oh well. I guess I I'd like to be a

(12:31):
teacher or a musician or something.
And then it was kind of well, anyone can do that.
What's a like I like really, what's your dream job?
I guess it would be cool if I were like the president of the
United States. That's never going to happen.
But then that's as soon as you say that you're it's not going
to happen. And if you actually I did, the

(12:53):
idea was just to set those ambitious goals and like you're
never going to achieve anything ambitious if you don't have
ambitious goals. Yeah, because I mean, you never
know, you might actually be the president.
If that's one of your goals, you're not real working towards
it. But you know, you just you never
know what you can do, obviously making the impossible possible.

(13:16):
That has happened before. And so I think anyone can, you
know, achieve their goals or dreams if if they put their mind
to it. So.
Yeah, and and talking about addiction, unless there's
anything else you want to say about goals.
Oh no, that's fine. You, you mentioned people not

(13:37):
realizing like exactly what an addiction is or, or stigmatizing
people who have addictions. And that's something that I just
kind of become aware of in the past year or so before as a
Christian entrepreneur all the time.
And it was a big issue, which I didn't see it as an issue at the

(14:00):
time. And, but, but also at the time,
I was like, oh, I'm not the kindof guy I would never get
addicted to drugs or, or drinking or, or anything like
that, like that. Addiction is never anything I
have trouble with. And I didn't really understand
it. And now that I am that I've
become a Christian and I want recovery and I want to get
better. I was like, oh, this is an
addiction to pornography. And just because I'm a Christian

(14:22):
doesn't mean that it just magically goes away, right?
And and that's that addiction issomething I have to to battle my
entire life. And then like you're saying, you
can be addicted to a lot of stuff.
I mean, people are addicted to their phones.
I'm addicted to my phone. You can be addicted to like
coffee or interview drinks or stuff.

(14:43):
Dude, there's like kids in their20s die from heart attacks
because energy drinks. I could do a whole show on on
that and and I'd be told hypocrites, I drink it.
But yeah, it's real, Sam. I will say we had a we had a
case, I think it was sometime last year.
We know lost the USI that you know, this I guess, well known

(15:05):
person used to go to the gym a lot here.
USI, you know, he was found deadin his room.
You know, they saw, they found that, you know, something wrong
with his heart. And you know, always obviously
it comes in the question of justlike, you know, was he drinking
energy drinks? Was he what was he eating or

(15:26):
drinking that kind of like pushed them towards that, you
know, And so like obviously likethe sad situation, but it really
makes you think of like, what are we putting in our bodies the
that's speeding up the process of death or just anything
putting us at heart? Yeah.
And, and in addiction to anything, even if it's not

(15:49):
deadly like that, it's just not good.
And it can really, it just kind of takes over your life.
And the Bible causes us to be dependent on nothing except
Christ. So you can only serve one
master. You can only be really dependent
on one thing. And if and if you have an
addiction to drugs or or pornography or coffee or

(16:12):
whatever it is, then you're or working, you're, you're finding
your satisfaction and your purpose and that and you're not
focusing on Christ or I mean, anaddiction, no matter how small,
is, is an idol. And it's, it's super dangerous.
Yeah. And, and then a lot of people,
and I say that I used to say this would be a well, if you're

(16:35):
addicted to something, they justquit doing it.
Just stop doing that. Yeah.
And that it's not, it's not thateasy at all.
I guess it's a some people can do that, have those when I who
just quit whatever it is. But yeah, I mean, as someone who
who works with a lot of recovering addicts, of course, I

(16:55):
think everyone is addicted to something or has been at some
point. But I mean, from that like
extreme situation of like drug abuse, yeah.
What would you want to say for anyone who doesn't really
understand exactly what addiction is or doesn't?
Doesn't have an addiction. Doesn't realize they have an
addiction. Yeah.

(17:16):
So the main thing is really likereflection.
But because since I've, you know, worked with a lot of
people that have like social disorders, you know, they tell
them like a lot of people, like in their families or their
friends, you're just like, you were diagnosed with like a
substance disorder or you, you have an addiction.

(17:37):
Why don't you just quit? Why don't you just stop, right?
And what they tell me every timeis that it's not that easy, you
know, because they know they have an addiction.
So like, they're just like, OK, I'll go out for one drink.
It's not always just one drink, you know, because once you
already have that taste in your mouth, that sensation, you're
just like, well, I need more of it, right?

(17:59):
You know? And you know, it's the same
thing with drugs because it's like, you know, the first time
you take a drug, you're just like, oh, wow, like this is this
is great, this is amazing. But then like you're building up
a tolerance and everything like that.
And so, yeah, you know, you're just like the next time you
decide to smoke or, you know, drink or anything like that,
you're going to need more. And so then you build up a

(18:22):
higher, higher tolerance, then you're just going to need more
and more and more of the substance.
And then that's where like the substance use disorder, the
alcohol use disorder comes from because you know, they're
drinking a lot more. They're drinking a lot
frequently or, you know, using alot frequently using how that
how are we many days of the week?

(18:44):
And, you know, they're, they're just addicted.
They feel like they've developedlike a relationship with a
bottle or, and developed a relationship with like THC or
anything like that. And you know, they feel like,
you know, if they give it up, then they lose a part of
themselves, right? And so, you know, it's, it's

(19:05):
never, it's not easy to give an addiction or anything like that.
And you know, like you mentioned, like struggling with
like pornography, you know, I struggled with and for like a
long time, like as soon as I like came to Christ, like lust
and pornography was the first thing I was like introduced to.
And I had to yeah, struggle withthat.

(19:25):
But we can get into that a little bit more.
And when I talk about my testimony, OK, but yeah, it's,
it's not easy. It's not just the oh, I can just
put it down there it away. You know, if you have to, once
you identify as an addiction, you got to work towards looking
at other things that you can do instead of going back to porn or

(19:47):
wrong back to the drugs and alcohol or, you know, going back
to energy drinks, coffee, right,your phone, just anything that
can help you to stay away, right?
Because this journey is not easy.
And I mean, in addition, it's, it's more than just like a bad
habit that you can kick. It's there's withdrawal with,

(20:11):
with a lot of addictions. Yeah.
Caffeine. I mean, like, like you drink
coffee every day and you go one day and you don't drink coffee,
you're gonna have headaches all day.
Like there's actual physical withdrawals for not just
substances, but like psychological addictions like
pornography or, or working or like people who are workaholics.

(20:31):
They don't they, they get like they get sick or or whatever.
I'm not a workaholic. I'd rather not work, but that is
a serious issue. I shouldn't joke, but but and
then even for like struggling pornography, I mean, there's
like a almost physical need. And then once you like you're
saying, Oh, I'll just go out forone drink.

(20:52):
Once you get like just a little bit of that, even if like that
little bit is all right. And there's some, there's some
things you may addicted to that aren't inherently bad, but of
course, everything in moderation.
Some things not at all. But like it's all right to drink
with friends for fellowship. My dad always says to celebrate,

(21:13):
not medicate. And you don't ever want to be
looking at pornography. That's not something you do like
occasionally like smoking a cigar or, or drinking a beer or
something like that. And but oh man, what was I going
to say? I got sidetracked.
But it's like, it's like once you get a little taste of that
nothing, you're not going to think about anything else until

(21:35):
you like go take it to the take it to the fullest to to the
point where it's a problem. Yeah.
Like is it a Max that's? One, right?
And it's just in the end, and even if you walk away after a
little bit, it just consumes everything.
It consumes every party. You can't do anything.
It lingers in your. Mind yeah it's it's really any

(21:58):
addiction is really a problem and drug addiction is a huge
problem yeah yeah that's awesomethat that you're working and
it's not like I'm kind of like all doom and gloom here but it's
not hopeless yeah people recovered on mediation I've.
I've impacted at least over 100 people's lives at this point.

(22:25):
And, you know, that was just me from being like an intern to now
actually like working, reaching out, helping all these people,
having them like attend like thegroup therapy sessions, seeing
them individually and addressingsome of the issues that they've
gone through. I've seen plenty of people
actually like recovered and yeah, they've, they've been

(22:48):
doing great. Like, they got, you know, new
cars, houses, new jobs. They mended their relationship
with their families or even creative families of their own.
And they're doing great. Like, it's not because it's not,
it's not like, you know, you getan addiction and your life is

(23:09):
over with, right? It's just like, sure.
You it's a part. Of how I do, Really.
Yeah. It's a part of your life.
And, you know, you still have todeal with all of it, tackle it
for the rest of your life now, but you can still have other
things and hope for greater. Yeah.
You know, And it's not. Yeah, it's not the end of the
world, right? And your addiction doesn't

(23:29):
define you. Exactly.
Yeah, and I forgot. Yeah, it's, it's the same thing
as like, you know, you know, theworld likes to use labels,
right? And you know, they try to fit
you in like a certain category or anything like that, you know,
like, Oh well, you're this so you're automatically this right

(23:51):
thing about like the astrology stuff, you know, I'm.
Yeah, I'm, yeah. Yeah, people say like, oh, I, I
act like this because I'm a Leo.No, you act like that because
that's just who you are right now.
Or, you know, people will alwaysask me.
He was like, you know, like, oh,Lee, what's your, what's your
sign? I'm like, obviously I know it

(24:12):
because I've been surrounded by it, but you know, you're like,
oh, I'm a Libra. And there was like, so that
makes sense, though. You know why you act like that?
And you're like, no, that's that's just who I am as a
person. And sure, it might match up to
whatever you may believe, but you know that's that's not the
main thing real. And all those like descriptions

(24:33):
they got for the which I don't know hardly anything about the
Zodiac because I just don't careto but.
Yeah, me neither. A lot of the descriptions are
just so vague, like you could connect it to a bunch of people
and then if they don't connect, it's like, Oh well, that's
because when you're born, Mars was.
Doing this or. Yeah, like when you think about

(24:53):
it, it's just like a bunch of generalized characteristics that
anyone can really fall into depending on the day.
Yeah. You know, So, you know, you
know, obviously I don't take it too seriously.
I always just thought it was just funny.
Yeah, it's not like you worship the devil if you.
Yeah, if you learn about the Zodiac.

(25:14):
I have a bunch of great Christian friends who just are
interested in it. I think it's interesting.
It's not like, yeah, but what I was going to say about addiction
was it's it's there is like recovery there.
Yeah. Hardly anyone can do it by
themselves, though. Like, you got to have that
community. You can't be like, I'll have an

(25:34):
addiction. Yeah, this is bad.
That's a good thing to realize. But then the next step is
finding someone, telling them about it and then figuring out,
OK, who can help me? Who's going to be productive and
helping me? Who do I need to stop being
around? Because I mean, you are who you
hang out with. Really.
That's why I mean every, every time I am like in some kind of

(25:57):
like Bible study and we're talking about evangelism, people
always say you're going into theworld, you want to go in with at
least one other person with you.No going alone because if you
don't have that, that anchor there to keep you accountable.
I mean, you just easily get sucked in to the people around,
you know, I'm saying like a surefact everyone will.

(26:17):
But it's over and over again that's happened to strong
Christians. And it's the same thing with
addiction. Trying to do it by yourself
never works. Yeah, in never works.
We always emphasize having a community, whether, you know,
it's either your support system is us, like as therapists, you
know, reaching out to us whenever you're feeling like

(26:41):
you're getting ready to relapse or just anything.
Or, you know, reach out to your family, reaching out to your
officers, just reaching out to any and everyone that you
possibly can because yeah, you can't do this alone, right?
You know, a lot of people think that like, oh, it's my issue, is
my problem, so I have to handle it.
No, the community can help you. It can get you closer to where

(27:05):
you want to be, you know, And soI always, I always stress a
community because, you know, besides the fact that, you know,
humans are social creatures, Yeah.
We need that socialization in order to, you know, keep going,
right? You know, it's just beneficial
because, you know, these people hold you accountable.

(27:26):
And, you know, like the Bible says, iron sharpens iron.
And so if you know, if two people are working together
battling this problem, you know,you're, you're most likely going
to be good, you know, because you have someone there to hold
you accountable and then you canhold them accountable for
whatever they're going through. And you're both battling right
something together instead of doing it all alone where we got

(27:51):
powers that could easily go against us.
Yeah, absolutely. What would you say to someone
who's listening, who has an addiction or think they might
have an addiction but isn't in acommunity?
They either they feel like they they'd be embarrassed to talk to
someone or they feel like no oneknows what they're going through

(28:11):
or that there is no way to help them or or whatever they're
feeling that that is keeping them from going to a recovery
group or talking to their familyor something like that.
I would say the best thing is toevaluate your life and see

(28:34):
whatever you think you may be addicted to.
See how it affects you in your daily life.
See how it affects you going on through your week.
Check your mental health, see ifyou're.
If you see that your mental health is tanking because of
this, then you might need to cutit out.
If you feel like, you know it's taking you away from your family

(28:58):
and friends or ever you feel like you have like constant
shame, doubts and guilt because you're keeping this secret
within yourself. Don't be afraid to reach out.
Yeah. And yes, I'm sure like you may
run into people that you've feltcomfortable with, you know,

(29:20):
it's, you know, reaching out, expressing that, you know, you
have an addiction to this and I need someone to hold me
accountable. And some people may not get it.
They'll be like, oh, like, why don't you just stop, right?
You know, and like we said before, it's not that easy.
But if they're that person that's just like, you know, why
don't you just stop? Or, you know, I don't know if I
can help you, but keep reaching out to people.

(29:43):
Find find that community, you know, comfort in a close friend
if you're not comfortable with your family or if you are
comfortable with your family, reach out to someone that you're
really close to and that you know what we understanding.
Yeah, because you can do this alone, right.
Obviously. And, you know, you can put your
trust in God and everything likethat.

(30:04):
But he gives us a community for that reason so that we can go
ahead and reach out and build a chameleon together in order to
help each other. Yeah.
So, yeah, just re evaluate, likeliterally evaluate your life and
see how it's affecting you and then reach outreach out to

(30:26):
someone. Don't we keep it hidden?
Because like the Bible says, whatever is done in the dark
will come to light eventually. Yeah.
So, you know, might as well bring it out to the light
yourself before. You know, yeah, for.
Something that happens and, you know, it comes out unwillingly,
right? And that just looks.
Yeah. And now you got to deal with it.

(30:47):
And now, you know, people might,you know, be like, oh, I never
knew. You know, why didn't you reach
out? Yeah, so, and, and there's
recovery groups for all types ofaddictions.
Oh, you know, and the, and they're committed to like
there's no condemnation. And the people who go there and,

(31:08):
and people who work there a lot of times, like they know what
you're going through. They're not going to make fun of
you or anything like that. And it's they're there to help
you. And there's whatever addiction
someone's struggling with, someone else has already been
through. Yeah.
There is nothing new under the sun.

(31:29):
Yeah. And like, for me struggling with
pornography, I thought I was totally unique and, and like, oh
man, I'm a horrible person. I'm showing pornography.
And now I talk to all these guysand, and I've almost every guy I
talked to has struggled with it.Yeah, it is.
I mean it's a huge problem. Yeah, it's such a common thing.

(31:52):
Yeah, especially wrong guys. And obviously, I'm not going to
be like, it's only a guy problembecause, right, Also women
struggle with it as well. But, you know, we always, always
talk about it. I feel like, you know, guys are
a little bit more open with eachother about it because, you
know, we automatically figured that, you know, most guys have

(32:13):
watched porn before and are potentially addicted to it.
And so, you know, finding that community and helping each
other, you know, is really great, which that's all.
I'm glad that, you know, we kindof do at like Westwood where
like, yeah, you know, we have meet for Tuesday Bible study and
we'll come together and just be like, all right, Like, how are

(32:34):
we battling the sin, you know, among the other sins that, you
know, we may have going on? Yeah, Yeah.
That's great. Yeah.
Is there anything else you want to talk about about addiction?
Something like that? We can always come back to it if
you think something else. Yeah, just like, yeah, I guess
like just one last thing. So like you may be going through

(32:59):
it and you may think like you'realone in it or anything like
that, but you know, you're not alone and you can be helped,
right? You know, a lot of people think
that, you know, they can't be helped due to it or maybe after
months, weeks, years of trying to bail an addiction, it's just
not working. And they may believe that, you

(33:21):
know, they can't be helped. Yeah.
But you know, that's not that's not true.
Yeah. I think anyone can be helped
through it. So.
Oh, and then one last thing I want to say is just what I've
found and what I've heard, people have these addictions or,

(33:42):
or whatever it is and they're seeking satisfaction and they
get that satisfaction, but then afterwards it's just whatever
they wanted the satisfaction for.
And then afterwards it's just feel bad or, or whatever pain
you're avoiding is worse or I think even worse than those two

(34:03):
is. You don't feel anything.
You don't feel bad. You're like, OK, well that was
good, let's move on. That's scary because then you
kind of lose sight of the severity when you're the danger
of having an addiction. Yeah, and but just seeking that
satisfaction that you're never going to find and you keep

(34:23):
pursuing it as just take you. It just kills you and and and
like obviously with drugs, like you build up that tolerant and
then the tolerance and then eventually you take so much that
you're overdosed and you die. But then also other things like
pornography will just like you mentally and can really just

(34:43):
literally can destroy your life.And then just working too much
can break up our families. I mean, there's all sorts of
1,000,000 examples for differenttypes of addictions.
But true satisfaction you're only going to find in Christ and
the the love that he has and Christ knows about your

(35:05):
addiction and he still loves you.
He still died on his cross for you and he still I want a
relationship with you like a like a father loving his son
unconditionally, her daughter. And and that's just I just blows
my mind. I'm so thankful that that Christ
still loves me and forgives me after all the stuff I've done.

(35:29):
And but yeah, that's where true satisfaction is.
And it's kind of like the opposite because with an
addiction you are getting like this instant gratification and
then later you have this crash and everything sucks.
And then it really, and it's more than just, oh, this sucks.
I can can really destroy your life.

(35:50):
And with Christ it's different. It's like delayed gratification.
Not I wouldn't call it a delayedgratification, but you have that
sanctification that it's a lifelong process, but becoming
more like Christ. And throughout that you're
getting better and you have joy,but things are hard.
It's not easy to walk with Christ.
Yeah, not at all. But it's incredibly rewarding

(36:12):
more than anything else. And, and you'll have that
satisfaction that you're lookingfor and you're still going to
struggle with your past addictions.
But in the end you get to go ahead.
And then that's, that's the goodpart.
That's like on the real satisfaction that that never
ends. There's never a crash.
From from that exactly. Yeah.
Yeah. You know, even like just, you

(36:33):
know, thinking about that, a lotof people think that, you know,
once they take that dip in the water, confess that they've been
baptized and they follow Christ,you know, they think instantly
they're going to be healing, fixed and everything like that.
They're not going to have addictions anymore.
But you know, that's not the case.

(36:53):
You know, God makes you work, you know, and obviously, like,
you know, salvation is not through works or anything like
that, but, you know, but it's through faith.
But, you know, really, really just thinking like, if I truly
want to follow Christ and reach the perfect standard that I know

(37:16):
I can't hit, I got to work for it.
Yeah, I most definitely got to work for it because, you know,
it's within our nature to be sinful and to not rely on God
for anything because, you know, that's what the Internet is true
because of fall and everything like that.
But, you know, we got to put in that work to make sure that, you

(37:40):
know, we're doing everything that we can that brings people
closer to Christ or it brings ourselves closer to Christ.
And because he truly understandsus, he knew it was before we
were made in the womb. So we we have to acknowledge
that and understand that you need him in order to to do it.
Yeah, absolutely. Anything else you want to say

(38:04):
about that? We're good.
OK. So with counseling, we've talked
about a lot about like counseling, like recovering
addicts and people who've been in like the prison system or or
jail or whatever. And then the other side of that

(38:25):
is working with special needs folks.
Yeah. And our question is, when you're
like counselling people, are youallowed to share the gospel?
Or is it the kind of thing wherelike they have to ask about it
first? It's kind of a thing where like
they have to ask about it first,but obviously that comes with
knowing your client a little bit.
So like if you know, like they're a believer, you know,

(38:47):
you could throw out a little, right, like a little hint or you
know, say like, or I guess say like, say if like we're allowed
to self disclose sometimes. And so, you know, sometimes if I
self disclose, you know, depending on the topic that
we're talking about, you know, Iwould say like, oh, well, I'm
glad that I have God in my life that's kind of helped me through

(39:10):
this. And I know that, you know,
you're a believer too, so maybe he can help you do this as well,
right? And so, yeah, so I try to bring
up Christ and like as alternate as possible because these
people, I was like, everyone needs Christ.
But, you know, I think these people need Christ a little bit

(39:30):
more because they're going through a lot.
Yeah. So yeah, I try to, I try to
squeeze in the gospel at every opportunity I can.
And if there's some days that I can't, that's fine because I
know maybe in the next coming days I'll be able to to do it.
Yeah, that's right. And and then when you're working
with people who have mental disabilities like Down syndrome

(39:53):
or autism, I mean, they're people just like everyone else.
And then they need to hear the gospel.
But their brain works differently than other people's.
So how do you do? Would you share the gospel
differently with someone who hasa mental disability, or is it
just kind of the same thing? I would approach it the same

(40:13):
way. You know, I'm just explaining to
them what it is. And if they have questions, you
know, answer their questions, you know, or at least, you know,
ask them if they have like a question about it.
Because I get it. It's not necessarily like a easy
thing to understand, right? And so, well, you know, without
the Holy Spirit, but you know, you know, be there for them, you

(40:35):
know, because they most definitely have the capacity to
understand the gospel. You know, a lot of people think
that, you know, oh, they have a disability or they have a, you
know, intellectual disability oranything like that.
They're never going to be able to understand it.
No, no, they most definitely canunderstand things that, you
know, are going on in common life.

(40:57):
They can understand the gospel. They can understand just
anything. Just making sure that, you know,
sure, maybe it might take, you know, a couple actually like
explanations or anything like that, but no, they can
completely understand it. Yeah, yeah, Some of them I've
seen just from working with childcare.
Sometimes I'll have a kid who has autism.

(41:20):
I don't think I've worked with any Down syndrome kids.
But people, a lot of people don't give them like enough
credit or they'll underestimate them a lot.
And I mean, they process things differently and they communicate
differently. Yeah, but I mean, they a lot of
times, and I'm not an expert on this or anything, but I mean, a
lot of times they think just thesame.
Yeah, they can understand just the same stuff.

(41:43):
And yeah, I feel like there's not enough help.
And I think it's great that you're helping.
Yeah, those kind of people with that, because I feel like
there's not enough people who care enough to actually help
them out. Yeah, yeah.
Or or provide them with the the tools to help themselves make is

(42:04):
even better. Yeah, because I firmly believe
that the matter your disability or anything like that, you can
still do whatever you dream of. Yeah.
And just because, you know, people put you on this category
and limits you with that cap with that category or limits you
with what others say, you know, I think, you know, I think

(42:28):
that's wrong because I think youcan do anything, you know, help
people, you know, that have likeautism or things like that.
Help them get their, like their driver's license, help them get
jobs. Yeah.
And they're doing, they're doinggreat.
Yeah. They can do anything that they
that they put their minds to. Yeah.
So. Yeah, I forgot what was what I

(42:52):
was going to say. Oh yeah.
Have you ever seen The Ringer? I don't think I have.
It's a movie. It's a giant Knoxville movie,
which it's kind of different forhim because it is funny, but
it's less Calgary. It's more like it's kind of, I
don't even know how to describe it, But in this movie, Johnny

(43:13):
Knoxville plays a guy who is kind of coerced by his uncle to
pretend to be mentally disabled and rig the Special Olympics and
win the money. And, and that sounds horrible.
It is. And, And so when like the movie
starts, you just think it's going to be like kind of a mean

(43:36):
movie towards mentally disabled people.
And then they introduce these like, I think it's like 5 or 6
characters who are or yeah, characters who are on giant
Knoxville's team. And it's so sweet.
And it really is. They're just like normal people,
like the way they're portrayed and they're played by actual

(43:59):
autistic king Down syndrome actors.
And, and the movie kind of starts out like it kind of
tricks even by the end of the movie, it's really like it's
less about the comedy and more about learning the lesson about
how this mentally disabled people are just the same as
everyone else and can do just asmuch.
And and of course, in the end John also, he ends up feeling

(44:22):
bad and he he like quits the Olympics and all that.
But but I just I always think about how he he goes there and
he pretends to be mentally challenged and all the the quote
UN quote normal people. Yeah.
Think he is. And they're like, oh, yeah.

(44:42):
And then all the disabled peoplesee right through him.
And then they hear his story because it's like his friend got
his fingers cut off and now he'sgot to buy new fingers, which
this is the common part. But.
But yeah, they hear his story and they're like, OK, well,
we're going to help you. And and then just the friendship
they build. It's really a great movie.
I think everyone should watch that.

(45:03):
Yeah, that's that sounds like a beautiful movie.
I think I'll I'll go ahead. Probably like check that out as
yeah. It's great and it's hilarious.
Yeah, yeah. But not in like they're not
making fun of downturns or people or tizzy people.
It's fun. So is there anything else you

(45:24):
want to do on on that? I'm very good.
OK, you want to. There's a couple other things I
have just just kind of have you were a leader and still are in
campus outreach and then the Westwood Youth Ministry.
Let's kind of run together in myhead, right?
You know, if you were like working directly with Westwood

(45:45):
like Christian was, or if you'relike a student leader at camps,
outreach or what. And then just also your
testimony. Yeah.
And so I guess I wouldn't say anything that like I work with
like campus outreach or I work with like Westwood specifically.
It's just that, it's just that Icouldn't like go to the Bible

(46:08):
studies and I understand like some of the things that, you
know, some of the things that people are going through about
how hard it is to follow Christ sometimes, right?
And so it's, they've kind of helped build me up into like a
unofficial leadership position. And so, and besides, I just like

(46:30):
helping people so much to the point to where it's just like,
you know, whenever it comes timeto like lead the Bible study
discussions or anything like that, I want to, I want to leave
that. I want to hear everyone's
thoughts and feelings of like what they're going through and
help them through that. Obviously, you know, using like

(46:50):
Bible verses, the biblical context of everything and making
sure like, you know, people understand that also.
I don't know, like I'm there forthem too, you know.
And so, yeah, my, my, my first, like interactions with, you
know, Westwood, I was still, youknow, deeply in my sin and I was

(47:14):
just looking for help. And when it came to come to
Westwood, everything like that, I remember I was literally just
walking like right outside the library.
I think I was on my way to I waseither on my way to class or I
was on my way to to an office and I just looked down and I

(47:35):
just see Westwood Bible study 7:00.
You know, I'm just like, sure, why not?
Like, yeah, let's let's go aheadand check this out.
And, you know, I went there and I knew like a lot of people from
there because, you know, by thatpoint I was at USI for I was at

(47:59):
USI for four years. I graduated with my undergrad by
that point, and I was in the very beginning.
So I'm getting my masters. And so I knew I knew some people
from there because of my years at USI And, you know, I was able
to, you know, get real comfortable just knowing that,

(48:19):
you know, I knew some people there like I always give, you
know, props to like Cam or, you know, DJ Cam.
And then I also give props to mymy buddy Brian, like because
they were like the first two to,you know, build like a
relationship with me on a deeperlevel vertically in which maybe,

(48:41):
you know, keep coming to Bible study.
Yeah. And also, you know, you know,
Christian Barrett, the leader and he he shared his testimony
the first time that I went and his testimony was so similar to
mine. And so where I was just like,
well, if God can save him out of, you know, his, you know,

(49:06):
stuff that he can save me because it was just so similar.
And it was, yeah, it was it was tough because I felt called out
like immediately, like if I could just like visualize myself
being there, just listening to people's testimonies and hearing

(49:27):
like the word again after some time, you know, yeah, I would
sit. I was shaking because I was just
like all all this time, you know, God has been telling me
like I do come my comebacks. And so so yeah, it's yeah, I'm

(49:48):
going to Westwood helping out like the other people
understand, like them helping meunderstand the Bible more and,
and everything like that. Like it's, it's been great.
And I, I love, I love it there. Like the amount of people that
can be impacted, you know, especially in like college,

(50:09):
because there's so many lies anddeceptions that, you know,
people believe out here and it'sit's very detrimental to future
generations. And we continue to believe these
lies. And so, you know, and this is
like where it really like, you know, get into my testimony.
And so which is funny because I always want to do this like at

(50:34):
Westwood, but. Oh yeah, because they were doing
that, yeah. Yeah, but obviously there's a
way to condense mine down to like 5 minutes or 10 minutes or
whatever, but usually I like telling the whole thing, yeah.
Because take as much time as youwant.
Because it, you know, obviously it's a lot, but I think I think

(50:55):
it will help someone because since, you know, I share a
testimony, it's with, I share mytestimony with people,
foreigners, like I'm going through that right now.
Yeah. How would you get out of it?
And you know, and I was like, only, only Christ, only Christ
could have pulled me out. And so at a very young age, like

(51:18):
always, you know, always believed in Christ.
My parents believed in Christ until, you know, my dad became a
Muslim or a Nation of Islam Muslim, which I could get all
into that, but I don't want to. But I always believed in Christ.
And I remember the exact, you know, exact thing that I was

(51:42):
doing whenever I was just like, oh, I need Christ.
Yeah. I was just like a little kid.
And we were sitting, I was sitting in the car on the way to
school and for some reason I raised my hand.
I think I was already in the school mentality, but I raised
my hand. And then eventually it clicked.
I was like, mom. I was like mom.

(52:02):
And she was she was like, she was like, yeah, what's up?
And I was like, I think I want to get baptized.
And like, she just gave me like a surprise look.
And it was like, whoa, like thisis big.
Like, yeah. And so, you know, I was really,
you know, the pastor was like a like a like another father, like

(52:23):
a like a uncle. Yeah, to me.
And so like he was happy, you know, to help me to get me
involved. So, you know, I could get
baptized, you know, I took the classes and everything like
that. And eventually, you know, I, I
went off and got baptized and, you know, everything was good.
I'm just like, I'm feeling great.

(52:45):
I put my trust in Christ. And then shortly after, you
know, I ended up going to school.
I think this is around 4th or 5th grade.
And you know, we all, we all have phones and stuff like that.
Or at least we had like iPods orsomething like that, like the

(53:07):
very beginning, like touchscreeniPods and you know, connected to
the Internet, all that. And so one of one of my
classmates, you know, she was just like, oh, check out this
website. And I was just like, OK, like,

(53:27):
you know, what is it? Because around that time I was
like, I was like heavy into gaming.
I like have my own computer in my room and I'll play video
games and all that. So I was just like, oh, OK, like
what's what's his website, whatever.
And so like, they were just like, oh, check it out, check it
out, go ahead. And so I was like, you know, out
of curiosity, I was like, OK, I'll check it out.

(53:48):
So checked it out, you know, turns out it was boring.
And I was just like, OK, like what It like, what is this right
now, you know, piece of curiosity?
And I was just like, OK, like, whatever, this is like, fine,
you know? Then I ended up going back to

(54:09):
them like, yeah, I checked it out.
It was a little weird, but, you know, I don't think it was like
that bad or whatever. And then that's when, you know,
the ball just started rolling, you know, I'll get curious and
I'll check out, you know, the porn website.
And I would just, you know, likeI was curious and you know, like

(54:32):
around that time, you know, yourbody's developing.
And eventually I got hooked. I got hooked into it.
So I was watching porn every dayfor for years, like and I did
for the rest of my time in middle school, watching it every
day. I watched it like in the

(54:53):
morning, I was in the afternoon,watched it at night, you know,
and activated to to it. And, you know, it just felt like
we are, you know, talking about addictions earlier, you know,
it's just, it felt like, you know, I needed it in order to
function. You know, I needed to

(55:14):
masturbated, watch Oren before Iwent to school.
Yeah. I needed to do it after I got
back from school, got back from basketball practice or in just
whatever, just because, you know, at some point I was just
like, yeah, like, I like, I needthis.
Like, this is cool. This is satisfying.
I don't see anything wrong with it, really, you know.

(55:36):
And so, you know, I did that forthe rest of the school.
I did it all the way through, through high school because I
was just like, you know, I was giving my addiction and I was
just like still in that mentality that there's, you
know, something wrong with it. Sure, out here, like people talk
about it and tell me like how wrong it is.
But I was just like, no, I don't, I don't see the problem

(55:59):
with it. But it wasn't until like, you
know, I got to college where I started to reflect a little bit
and I was just like, I need to get this up, you know.
And so with that, you know, it was, you know, it wasn't easy,
You know, I still struggle with like the, you know, the thoughts

(56:19):
and everything like that of, youknow, going back to that.
But it, it was, it was tough. It took me months to, you know,
at least give it up for, for like a good whole month or maybe
two months, sometimes even threemonths.

(56:40):
But it was, it was a tough ride to to give that up because I
knew I was addicted to it and I still had like that guilt and
shame of using it for so many years, doing it for so many
years. And so eventually I decided to,

(57:00):
you know, completely be done with it.
But around that time, but it waslike around COVID time and
everything like that, I kind of fell back into it a little bit
more because, you know, we were all cooled up in the house and I
was like, well, there's nothing,nothing else like better to do.

(57:25):
You know, all I did in the housewas like, do my homework and
play video games. And I was like, yeah, I need
something else. And so I fell back into it a
little bit more. But eventually I was just like,
OK, like I need to stop. Like, legit.
But eventually, you know, after giving it up for a while, I
started to realize, you know, I wasn't, you know, delving into

(57:50):
the Bible as much as I should. I wasn't going to church as
often as I should because I was here in college.
I was on my own, didn't really have a church family or anything
like that. I didn't know Westwood existed
at some point. So I was bouncing around at
different churches and all that other stuff, but eventually some

(58:14):
at some point during my pressureyear, I ended up dating dating
this girl. I guess people now will call it
like a situation ship. And, you know, we were dating
and we were talking and it was just I would like go over to her
place all the time. You know, we watch shows, movies

(58:36):
and all other stuff. But one random day, you know,
passions were high and we almostwe almost had sex.
And after that, you know, I had to really like self afflict
because I was just like, this isthe relationship that I want to
be in because I was very dedicated and making sure that,

(58:59):
you know, I stayed pure even though, you know, I still
watching porn movies like that, but still stayed pure and
effective. Like I never slept a winning on
before marriage. And so with that, you know, we
kind of had to talk about it. And she realized it before me.
But, you know, she was just like, yeah, we probably need to

(59:20):
separate ourselves and, you know, break up.
Yeah. And everything like that.
And after that, you know, obviously, like, I was
devastated because, you know, wewent to church together and
everything like that. And I was just like, well, I was
like, well, I don't know what todo now.
Yeah. And so, you know, feel like to

(59:40):
pour in a little bit because, you know, but not just didn't
know how to handle it. And it was like my way of
coping. And so so yeah, then after that,
eventually I was like, OK, I gotto give it up and I gave it up
again. And then around around the time

(01:00:00):
of like, you know, being back oncampus sophomore year, I was a
part of the track team and everything like that, so.
You know, I, I relied on like myfriends, like they're like my
family, you know, and so and like, you know, I still talk to
them to this day, by the way. And so, you know, being on like

(01:00:25):
the team and everything like that, like we like to hang out a
lot. And eventually, you know, led
to, you know, me being invited out to, you know, hang out with
them and everything like that. And with that, you know, they
were drinking and saw at some point I was like, I was really
stubborn. And so I was just like, yeah,
I'm I'm not going to drink. I don't do that.

(01:00:47):
Because I remember I was tellingmyself when I was younger, oh,
I'm never going to, I'm never going to sleep with anyone
before marriage. I'm never going to drink.
I'm never going to smoke. I only stuck to one of those,
which was non-smoking, never touched, never touch weed or
never touched like anything elsein my life like that.

(01:01:08):
So, you know, I'm glad I was able to at least keep that one
promise to myself. But everything else was a little
more major than not touching like drugs, in my opinion.
But but yeah, so I'll hang out with them.
They'll be drinking. I'll kind of just, you know,
drink my juice on the side forever, but eventually, you

(01:01:30):
know, I kind of, I kind of just like caved in to like the peer
pressure. You know, it's just like, you
know what, sure, I'll have a fewdrinks.
It wasn't like my first time drinking or whatever because of,
you know, some stuff that I wentthrough in high school, but I
went ahead and, you know, started drinking and then
eventually it led to me drinkingmore and more and more.

(01:01:55):
We would go, we would go have track meets and everything like
that. And then as soon as we get back,
we, we always had a thing over. It's like, you know, after track
meet, we'll go home real quick because, you know, we always on
campus, we'll go home real quickand shower.
And then we'll go off campus to one of my, one of our good

(01:02:15):
friends house and we would just go drink.
Yeah, you know, we would go drink in their garage.
We would go drink in their houseand we would just get tore up
every Friday and Saturday, sometime Sunday.
And you know, we we would, we did that for for a year.

(01:02:37):
No, he did that for two years. And you know, I'm just drinking,
drinking every like every weekend and just getting drunk
and black out drunk sometimes. And I was just like, when it
came to that, it's just like, yeah, it's I like, at least I'm

(01:03:01):
doing it on the weekends. It's not that bad, right?
But now I realized, like, you know, I had a problem and
everything like that. And so I tried to.
So basically I came back to, youknow, to Christ to follow him a
little bit more. And there was a Fellowship of
Christian athletes here or therestill is.
But so I'll go there and everything like that.

(01:03:23):
And I look like, listen to the Word and everything like that.
Yeah. Listen to the people's
testimonies. And I was like, in my mentality,
it was just like, yeah, I'm not going to church, but, you know,
at least I'm showing up to, you know, there's Bible study and
everything like that. But, you know, still on the
weekends, I would still go out and drink and everything like

(01:03:45):
that. Yeah.
And I was, I was living a doublelife basically, because I'll go
to Bible, talk about the goodness of God and like that.
And then I'll go drink on the weekends and be recovering on
Sunday and then show up to FCA on Monday, you know, thinking
that I was good, that every timeI went I was cleansed and

(01:04:06):
purified. But men, men mentally, I was
still, I was still stuck on world.
And and then it helped when I turned 21 because then I had
access to the boxers, right? And so I remember the first time
that I went to the bar, I hated it because around that time I

(01:04:29):
wasn't much of A social person. So seeing all those people in
this wild atmosphere, I didn't like it.
But eventually, you know, I did get comfortable and I kind of
adapted to, I guess my environment because the how
often I went and wait, how much I would drink while I was there

(01:04:52):
too. They kind of built up a false
sense of courage that, you know,I could talk to anyone.
I could do whatever because, youknow, around that age, like, you
know, you think you're invincible, you know, and so,
and that's when my lust problemsreally started to pick back up
because we go out to the bar and, you know, we'd be drinking

(01:05:18):
obviously. Like there would be people that
I would find attractive and thenthere are people that find me
attractive. And you know, it was just like a
lot of twerking and grinding, making out.
I mean, just like these real like real lustful things and

(01:05:39):
going on. And it just sparked up something
in me again because, you know, Iwas addicted to pornography.
So that lust just sparked back up and I was every, it was for a
long run of every Friday and Saturday.
I'll go out to go out to the bar.
I would lust after multiple women and it was never the same

(01:06:04):
woman. Or sometimes if it was like the
same woman, you know, it was somewhere from like weeks ago or
anything like that, You know, I just go out there and obviously
I would just go out and just be like, OK, how many women can I
talk to and how much can I drinkin this night or anything like

(01:06:26):
that? And eventually and like I never,
I never would take like someone home with me.
Like that's where I, I kind of like kept my boundaries because
at that time I was still just like, I'm still not asleep on
anybody. I'm still in a, you know, not
sleep with anyone before marriage.

(01:06:47):
And so, you know, I'll never take someone home with me, but I
will always end up at their place, right.
And you know, I wake up like from being passed out on like
someone's couch rings like that.And you know, I'm how to always
like call my friends and like, Hey, can you pick me up from

(01:07:08):
from this place? And like, they were like, where
are you? And like, that's a good
question. Let me let me figure it out.
So like I would like look outside and like, Oh, I'm on
this street and like, what are you like, why are you out there?
He was like, Oh, I met this person and I, I'm going to their
place and then they'll have to come pick me up and then Take Me

(01:07:28):
Home and everything like that. And I'll kind of boast and brag.
I'm like, how many women like I would talk to when at night or
how many women I'll have like twerk on me and, or whatever, or
how much I like I would drink within the night.
And, you know, obviously, like some, some of my friends, you
know, they'll hype it up and I'dbe like, yeah, like this is,

(01:07:51):
this is great. Like, you know, I'm finding
satisfaction and like, you know,making people proud of, you
know, some of the actions that I'm doing.
And so it's like eventually, like, you know, I'm still doing
all this. I'm still going to the bars and
whatever. And it was this one night

(01:08:16):
everything. Yeah, that's one night early in
the second semester. So this is like January
something I found myself talkingto to one of these girls.
She's, you know, she was the same age as me.
So we ended up going to the bar together.
And you know, it's still drinking lustle stuff, but

(01:08:42):
eventually around that, like eventually with that, that and I
I found out that, you know, she was talking to, you know,
someone else and you know, or she was dating someone else,
which, you know, we're on her part for I guess maybe having
like a boyfriend or talking to someone and then also talking to
me at the same time. And I was just like, and I

(01:09:04):
noticed it and I was just like, OK, because at that point, like
I took a step back and at that point I was just like, OK,
that's weird. But then I was just like, but I
know who I am and I know that I could pull another girl.
And I ended up doing that. And I ended up doing that

(01:09:24):
because because that's just who I was as a person.
I always thought like I had a slick talk or whatever.
And so while I was there, I was there with my homeboy.
We would always go to the bar together.
And he was like that. He had, he had a girl with him
and you know, they were dancing and then the girl he was with

(01:09:49):
had a friend. And we, I was just chilling
because I was still processing everything, processing
everything that was happening that night.
But eventually, you know, I guess his girl at the time came
up to me and I was like, hey, like, my friend, you know,
thinks you're cute. I think, you know, she's

(01:10:11):
interested in, you know, gettingto know you.
And I was like, and I, like, litup a little bit and I was like,
OK, cool. And so, like, you know, started
dancing, whatever. I ended up taking her home later
that night. And then eventually, like, you
know, we just kept contact and we will see each other at the

(01:10:31):
bar all the time and everything like that.
And then the second time that I met her or saw her at the bar, I
took her back home with me. And, you know, we didn't do
anything like we didn't like have sex or anything like that,

(01:10:52):
but we were like very close to, you know, crossing that line.
And then eventually, like, you know, we're doing other like
sexual activities. And eventually she was just
like, do you want to have sex? And I was just like, and at that

(01:11:12):
point I paused because I was just like, do I cross this
boundary that I said I wasn't going to cross every my life.
And I stayed, I held myself downfor it.
And I was just like, Nah, Nah. Right now, I kind of made-up the
excuse that I was like, oh, I don't have a condom.

(01:11:33):
Then she was like, yeah, that doesn't matter.
And I was like, OK, you know. And so and so after she asked me
that, I kind of started thinkingmore and more about it as the
week went on because I knew I would see her again.
Because at that point we were talking still and, you know,
talking to each other every day.I had her over every day and

(01:11:54):
everything like that. And, you know, Valentine's Day
was coming around and, you know,we were still, like, going on
dates and all that. And so eventually, you know, I
talked myself into it. And I was like, you know what?
Yeah, I'll do it. I'll cross that line.

(01:12:14):
And so it was the day before Valentine's Day and I had her
over like usual, and we were just telling, we were just
talking about what we're going to do the next day for
Valentine's Day, you know, goingout to eat, whatever.
And so eventually things got passionate again.

(01:12:36):
And I crossed that line with her.
And it was just like, once I crossed that line, I kind of
like got addicted to it. And so it was just like every
time, like I would see her or have her over, it was just like,
we will always have sex. And, you know, not much of a

(01:12:57):
relationship was formed. It was just more just like, like
every time we see each other, we'll just have sex, you know.
And so eventually with that, I remember one time we were
talking about getting into like a relationship and everything

(01:13:19):
like that. She said she wanted a long term
relationship. I said, I want a long term
relationship. Then we both asked each other.
We were like, OK, how important is God in your life?
And you know, I was like, yeah, God is very important in my
life, even though, you know, I still actively in my sin.
And, you know, she was just like, yeah, I'm not like super
religious, but, you know, I do believe in God.

(01:13:40):
And I was just like, I was like,OK, you know, that's good enough
for me, right? And so, you know, we kept having
sex. We, you know, we kept trying to
be in like a relationship or whatever.
And eventually, you know, when it came down or yeah,
eventually, like I met her parents, she met my mom.

(01:14:01):
She didn't meet my dad, but and then when it came down to like,
actually like being in like a relationship or something like
that, I guess I was more in it to, you know, for like a
commitment. And she said that, you know, she

(01:14:22):
was kind of scared of like a commitment and everything like
that. And so, you know, I was like,
you know what, that's cool. We'll just keep having sex and
you know, eventually, you know, with that, you know, we
eventually hit like a Rd. bombedand we decided to just just end

(01:14:42):
things. Obviously with me, whenever like
I get in like into a relationship, like I get really
attached to a person. So once once we ended things, I
and I was devastated. And I was just like, I was like,
OK, well, I'm single now. And now I get to go back to what

(01:15:04):
I used to do, which was, you know, going going out to the
bar, still lasting after all these women.
And I did that. I did that for.
I did that for a while. I ended up graduating college.
Yeah, I ended up graduating college.
And, you know, I was proud for that moment, but I was still,

(01:15:30):
you know, living in my son. And so eventually, like
throughout the summer, not the summer, I was still less than
after women. But since since I already
crossed that line with with the girl that I slept with, I was
just like, I crossed the line. So now I can do it with anyone
else. And so throughout the summer now

(01:15:54):
I'll go less than that. The people I go, I'll go sleep
with someone that I found like attractive.
Yeah, sometimes multiple people within one night, which was
terrible. But then, you know, still going

(01:16:15):
out to the bar and everything like that.
And eventually, you know, last thing, so much to the point to
where eventually I did end up having like, I guess like an
orgy with a bunch of a bunch of like, I guess like my friends at

(01:16:36):
the time. And it would, you know, I was
just like, alright, I, I reflected and I was just like, I
told myself that, you know, I went across the boundary and now
that I did look, look what it led to.
And so and so I ended up, after I did that, you know, I came

(01:17:00):
with a lot of guilt and shame, ended up sharing that, sharing
that I did that with one of my one of my friends and they kind
of hyped me up for doing it. But then I was eventually I was
just like, yeah. But was it really worth it, you
know? And so eventually school was

(01:17:21):
starting back up from the summerand they were, they had like a
involvement fair or something like that.
And I ran in, I ran into someonenow I used to go to Bible study
with on, if you don't know, his name is Reed.
He goes to yeah, Christian, yeah, the Christian Fellowship

(01:17:42):
Church or he's like a youth minister at the Christian
Fellowship Church. I ended up running into him
again and he was just like, asked me how I was doing.
And I was just like, I was like,you know what?
I'm trying to make it, I'm trying to survive.
But you know, I got a lot of things that I'm that I'm
battling. And so one of the reasons why I

(01:18:05):
went to the evolving fairy because I knew there would be,
you know, churches out there ended up collecting a bunch of
biblical stuff. I got my first English standard
version Bible, which I still have to this day.
And then I got like a few books that kind of like will help me
get closer to God. And so mind you, I'm still

(01:18:29):
actively in my sin. I'm still going to the bar.
So let's let's thing after womenaround this time.
And so at some point I was driven to just post my Mahalos
like Bible and biblical stuff, and I posted on my story and I
was like, Yep, I got all this stuff now, you know, hopefully

(01:18:51):
just will bring me closer to Christ.
And so it's one of the things I know on a lot of people, the
word, you know, word gets out. And so one of one of my friends
that, you know, one of my friends that you know, I had
that OG with, she ended up calling in one of my homeboys

(01:19:14):
that's from Bloomington. And she was just like, is Leah,
is Leah a Christian? And my homeboy was like, yeah,
he's trying to get closer to Christ.
You know, he's baptized and every night that when he was
younger. But yeah, he's always trying to
get closer to Christ. And she was like, I don't think

(01:19:34):
he's a Christian because, you know, he goes out to the bar all
the time. He sleeps with all these women
and, you know, or even, you know, slept with, you know,
slept with me and everything like that and all this other
stuff. And I was just like, and my
homeboy came to me and, like, called me and was just like, I

(01:19:56):
mean, it's like, yeah, she said this.
And so as soon as I heard that, like, it felt like a gut punch.
Like, I felt like my heart just sank all the way down to my
stomach, probably sunk into the earth a little bit because it
just hit really hard. Yeah.
The fact that. You know, someone could look at

(01:20:17):
my life and say that I'm not a Christian, right?
And I was just like, like when Itell you I thought I could go
punish like I he told me that. And I was like, I was like, Hon,
OK, hey, I'll. I'm gonna call you.
I'm gonna call you back later. And he was like, you good.

(01:20:39):
I was like, yeah, yeah, I'll be fine.
Hung up. Then I dropped to my knees and I
was just like, I was like, Lord at night.
I was like, I don't even know what to say to you at this
point. You know, I was actively living
in sin, knowing that it was going against you.

(01:21:01):
And I could feel the tug of you calling me back.
I mean, because, you know, whileI was living in sin, you know, I
would, I would feel, you know, Ifeel God or sometimes in my
mind, like I feel God reaching out to me, you just every like
ever so softly, you know, like we come back, just do it.

(01:21:25):
And you know, eventually and youknow, I kept hearing that and Oh
my God, I will at some point. But eventually, you know, I
guess God, you know, had enough,had enough of me living in my
sin. And so he gave me a reality
check and I was just like, wow, like, this hurts.

(01:21:47):
Yeah, but it's needed. And so and so God.
God called me out of it. I was really repentant for
months. I even had a friend that I'll
talk to every day because I worked with her.
And I'd be like, look, I can't be going back to this.

(01:22:08):
Like, I can't, I can't, you know, go back to like having sex
with just random people that I'mjust meeting, go here or
drinking all the time and everything like that.
And so we would check in with each other and, you know, I, you
know, I would talk with her about anything.

(01:22:32):
And, you know, we were kind of like hold each other accountable
with some stuff because, you know, she struggled with us too,
kind of like similar to like I was going through.
And so we were trying to hold each other accountable.
I was still still trying to figure out stuff.
And around that time, I was starting to go to Westwood

(01:22:54):
consistently too. And I was seeing the benefit of
doing that, having a community. And eventually, you know, I did
have like, a relapse. Random girl ended up texting me
and was just like, hey, I want to sleep with you, man.

(01:23:15):
Mentally, I was like, I know I shouldn't do this, but the other
side of me was just like, yeah, why not?
And then did that. Then I was just like, I was
like, OK, like I really shouldn't have because you know,
at the end of the day, I felt like that it wasn't worth it.
And so so I thought I was just like, OK, like, no, like I'm not

(01:23:40):
going to. It's like, I can't, I can't keep
doing this. And I stuck with that for for
months. And so instead of going out to
the bar and drinking, I decided to just drink in my apartment,
which obviously you know, a lot to do that at USI in the
apartments, but I snuck into it anyway.

(01:24:01):
And so, you know, I thought I was safe.
I thought I was good with doing that just by myself and
everything like that. But eventually Thanksgiving was
coming around and some of my friends were like, back in town.
And so I was just like, you knowwhat?
This is a good excuse to, you know, go back to the bar, see if

(01:24:22):
I can handle myself, you know. And so, you know, they had this
thing called Blackout Wednesday or something like that, like the
day before Thanksgiving, you know, people were just go get
drunk and then go see their families Thanksgiving morning or
whenever people host their Thanksgiving.

(01:24:42):
And so, you know, I went out there, I was able to handle
myself a little bit. I didn't get it too messed up or
anything like that, but you know, I was just like, and I was
like, I haven't been here for a while.
So yeah, well, like, so I'm doing good.
But eventually since I did that again, I was just like, OK,

(01:25:07):
well, I'll go out again on maybethat Friday or Saturday.
And so, so I went out again, went out to the bar.
I was just drinking. I was being cool.
I, I told myself I'm only going to have two drinks.
Then it ended up being 2 drinks ended up getting like a little
messed up. And then I just remember the

(01:25:29):
bars getting ready to close and one of the girls that I slept
with before and came up to me and she was like, oh hey, Lee.
And I was just like, oh, am I seeing you again?
And then there really wasn't much talking because we kind of
understood what we were both or what we were both going after.

(01:25:52):
And so I ended up, ended up bringing her back to my place,
ended up sleeping with her again.
And then eventually I was just like, I was like, no, I was
like, at that point, at that point in time, I was like, I, I
was like, legit, I can't keep doing this, right?
I was like, I can't. And so and so eventually I ended

(01:26:19):
up going back home. But yeah, I went back home.
I went to my mom's and I just I stay I stayed there with her all
all went a break because I was just like, if I go back to
Evansville, I'm just going to fall into the same pattern,
right. And so so I did that stayed home

(01:26:40):
ever. So I came back for cross gone
and I took my younger sister with me and we we enjoyed all
the crosscon and obviously we were there with like Westwood
because they they paid for it. And so, you know, I was, I was
there enjoying it, picked up a lot of materials and biblically

(01:27:02):
and, you know, listening to people like John Piper and a
bunch of other huge biblical leaders right then, like social
media, listening to them, worshipping with them and
everything like that. And at that point, I was just
like, I really need to change mylife for.

(01:27:22):
Yeah. And so that's all I was.
That's all I was working towards.
And so, you know, I still had like my hiccups every once in a
while. I wasn't like sleeping with
anyone specifically, but I was still be like lustful.
I wouldn't go to the far as much, but I'll go like every
once in a while maybe like, yeah, maybe like twice a month.

(01:27:46):
But eventually, like I was slowly like, I guess weighing
myself off of going to the bar, going off of, you know, drinking
and everything like that. I tried, I tried dating again
and, you know, didn't really work because, you know, I still

(01:28:07):
felt a lot of guilt and shame about my past and that kind of
held me down from actually showing people like who I was
right or who I am. And, you know, I just just
didn't really work. And so, you know, I kind of just
took a break from from dating and everything like that until

(01:28:27):
like I really found myself. I ended up going to therapy as
well or I say therapy, but I will call like the 24 hour line
and just like talk about my problems and you know, try to
get off my chest, kind of get a non bias perspective.
And so so yeah, I did that. I did a little bit of, I did

(01:28:52):
like some healing to really justfigure out who I am and who do I
want to be. And, and then I really like, you
know, started really getting back into it with God reading my
Bible every day already going tochurch consistently.
That's why I, you know, I started going to Westwood

(01:29:13):
consistently with church and theBible study and really just had
in that community and really find out like true healing
through that because, you know, God was able to work through me
with that. And so, you know, once I kind of
found found myself found who I am in Christ, I was happy, you

(01:29:38):
know, yeah, it brought me a lot of joy, a lot of happiness.
And I felt called to help other people.
That's kind of like lived that college live.
Oh, you can go sleep with anyone.
You can go drink how often you want.
You can go to all these parties,all this other stuff.
And so, and so once I kind of found myself, I kind of opened

(01:30:04):
myself more to like, you know, relationships and everything
like that. And, you know, eventually it led
to me meeting my girlfriend thatI have now.
And, you know, we're, we're great.
You know, we try to keep God at the center of our life.
You know, we go to church, we goto church together and there's
not that, you know, and we try to, you know, remain pure

(01:30:27):
because, you know, because of mypast, you know, and sure, like,
you know, we have like ups and downs on air talk that but you
know, and we don't date perfectly, but you know, we we
work very towards it, you know, keeping Christ at the center.
But yeah, that's majority of youdoing that.
That's what's my testimony or that's pretty much all of it.

(01:30:50):
Yeah, but yeah, we all of that. You know, I really did feel
called to at least, you know, help lead in some type of way in
the church. And so that's what really got me
into leading the Bible study discussion.
Yeah. And reaching out to others
because we all, we all got our things that we have to navigate.

(01:31:17):
We've all done things in the past that we regret, feel guilty
about, shame about. But through Christ, we were able
to be redeemed and live through it.
Like there's a Bible verse that I was looking at the other day
had highlighted. I believe it's yeah, Romans 8,

(01:31:42):
which is there is therefore now no condemnation for those who
are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of
life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and
death. For God has done what the law
weakened by the flesh could not do by saying his own Son in the
likeness of sinful flesh and forsin.

(01:32:05):
He condemned sin in the flesh inorder that the righteous
requirement of the law might be fulfilled in US who walk not
according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the
things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit
set their minds on the things ofthe Spirit.

(01:32:26):
For to set the mind on the fleshis death, but to set the mind on
the Spirit is life and peace. And that's one of the verses
that I always go to. Well, thank you for sharing, for
being transparent. I, it is really powerful this
morning and there's a lot of people who struggle with the

(01:32:49):
same kind of stuff that you're struggling with.
So I really appreciate you sharing that.
No, no, bro, I appreciate the the leadership that you've had
it Camp Savage. The leadership given at Camp
Savage. I mean, you're a quiet guy, but
when we'd be doing the Bible studies and then you had
something to say, everyone wouldquiet down and listen.

(01:33:10):
Yeah, because we all know that. Well, you're graduating from
really good. Yeah, good stuff.
Yeah, I constantly try to, you know, at least, you know, try to
stand my word. So whenever something comes, you
know, I'm, I'm ready, like I have an answer to and you know,
obviously like, you know, I'm listening to everyone that's in

(01:33:33):
there. And whenever someone would say
something like if you ever like notice whatever, like whatever I
do while we're in like our discussions, like if someone
says something like if I like lean back and start thinking a
little bit, I've seen do lots ofyeah, I'm about to say something
that's, you know, beneficial, yeah towards them.

(01:33:54):
So. Yeah, but it was appreciated.
I met you. They really think through it and
and then every time and then once you contribute to your
conversation, it's like that wasreally good.
She's. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I always talk about the Holy Spirit speaking through me was

(01:34:14):
obviously that's an honor and for you know, you know, as I
just shared my testimony. Such a flawed individual where
something's a holy period of youknow, use me to speak through.
That's what you know such are you sort of be on a light.
Yeah, and I like that. I'm glad you read that passage.

(01:34:37):
Yeah, that's. Really great.
I mean, I feel like nothing sumsup, nothing sums up better than
Scripture. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I always sound associated when Iwas first getting out of my sin.
Like I'm going to do all of the New Testament, you know, it's
just like I need verses that apply to my sins specifically.

(01:35:00):
I know I like other sins with mymajor one was the last.
And so Romans 8, I always went to it first.
First Corinthians. Reading through that, I had that
reminder on my phone. Always there was just like or it
is Corinthians and it is also like Colossians, Colossians 3

(01:35:23):
five to 10, you know, putting todeath like what is earthly in
you with, you know, sexual immorality and purity passions.
You would desire coveness, idolatry because you know some
of those. The key thing in that verse is
like in these two, in these you 2 once walked, you know,

(01:35:45):
reminded me that, you know, I used to live like that, but now,
you know, putting my mind on theKingdom of God, I need to, you
know, take all those things thatdon't inherit the Kingdom of God
and leave them out of my life. Yeah, absolutely.
And you're free from sin to be able to do that.

(01:36:07):
Yeah. Yeah, it's incredible.
And my pastor says that every testimony is a miracle.
Yeah, yeah, because I very well could have just still been
living in my sin, probably when,you know, when I met you
probably or, you know, maintain contact with the very good

(01:36:32):
community at Westwood And just, you know, the community I built
up in general of, you know, brothers and sisters alike of,
you know, bringing others to Christ and building each other
off with that. Yeah.
So I'm glad that got you in thatreality check.
Syrian or but right now, yeah. Well, that's great.

(01:36:58):
You mentioned cross con, What isthat?
Yeah, so cross con is is like a yearly thing.
So think of passion like everyone's well.
So think of like Passion, which is like this big Bible revival.

(01:37:18):
Or like a Christian friends. Yeah, Christian Revival
Conference where, you know, at least with passion, like they
fill up stadiums, they host a lot of worship and they have
like a bunch of the like sessions and everything like
that that help you, you know, get closer to Christ, develop
leadership skills on how to reach people in the world or,

(01:37:41):
you know, just building yourselfup as as a Christian.
And then so cross con is pretty much the same thing, just on a
smaller scale. OK.
And so, you know, you know, whenI went there, you know, they had
a bunch of like sermons, biblical like classes.

(01:38:05):
They have like a outreach committee for, you know,
reaching out to other people in the world that may not have
access to the Bible or, you know, helping in translating a
Bible into a different language that never been translated
before. And then like in the back, they

(01:38:27):
had like a bunch of book sales of really known like Christian
or authors. And they get out like a bunch of
free books. They get out some books that you
did not have to pay for anythinglike that.
Yeah. They have food trucks out out
out in the center and everythinglike that.

(01:38:48):
But the main thing, which is like, you know, preparing you to
follow Christ. Oh, what that looks like and
what even happens? Like, you know, if you fall, you
know, what do you do? Yeah.
So, you know, it's, it was great.
I mean, I highly encourage, you know, that people go to it.

(01:39:09):
You know, the people from us what are listening to this, you
know, obviously like they, they promote going to it, you know,
well, I went, they paid for me. But I know in recent years and
you know, I think you have to pay like small amount of money,
but you know, for the whole tripit's, it's worth it.
And where is cars? Come, it's in mobile.

(01:39:30):
And when did I have it? It's typically like the
beginning of the year, so. Like the new year?
Yeah. So basically like right after,
after the new year. So I think really like January
2nd to like the third. So let me like a like a 2 day

(01:39:53):
thing I think. Is it just for college students
or can anyone go? Anyone go OK?
Anyone. Yeah, well, if you're listening.
Grass Con 25 in Louisville should check it out.
Yeah, yeah, most definitely. You should check it out.
Be sure to pick up like some books or something like that.

(01:40:17):
And then just really be interested and dedicated to
listening to what these people have to say because, I mean, it
helped me. And so I, I firmly believe that,
you know, they can help someone else.
Yeah. To be not.
So I should say before I forget when we were talking about
addictions earlier and in our community and resources for

(01:40:39):
that. Friends of Sinners in Owensboro.
I don't know if they're just in Owensboro or if that's like a a
bigger thing, but they are recovering ministry for
recovering drug addicts and Alcoholics.
And then of course, Alcoholics Anonymous and for pornography

(01:41:01):
addiction, Bethesda Workshops and Coveted Eyes both have a
bunch of free content. And then those counseling,
what's the name of your place again?
Empowerment Behavioral Services.And then there's some so what's

(01:41:22):
that? It's they meet at churches and
you can go for any type of addiction recovery.
What's that called? Celebrate Recovery.
OK. Yeah.
Wherever you're listening, I guarantee there's a Celebrate
Recovery somewhere around where you are.
They're all over the place. And you can go there for

(01:41:42):
anything. And you don't have to share
there. It's encouraged.
We don't got to or you don't have to.
Yeah, there's a resources. I just want to say it before I
forget. Yeah.
And there's more than all that stuff.
I mean, you just go up. Yeah, yeah.
There's plenty of resources out there to help you through it.
And of course, you know, obviously finding like a
community that's rooted in Christ will most definitely get

(01:42:05):
you get you the help that you need for sure.
Yeah, for sure. Absolutely.
I have one more question and then we can talk about anything
else you want to talk about. You know, we'll wrap up.
I got to ask about your tattoos.Oh yeah, and so.
Just describe them first and then yeah, yeah, huge spokesman.

(01:42:28):
So my very first one is on my wrist and it says faith in
family and then like it has a heartbeat in the middle.
I got that when I first turned 18.
It was a ideal for my mom that, you know, we'd all get like a
matching tattoos. So we all have the same thing on

(01:42:49):
our wrist and we're, you know, obviously like faith is #1 it's
the most important. And then a family this, you
know, second rank. So that's important to us.
And then my other two are up on like my shoulder or shorter,

(01:43:10):
like bicep area. And so the first one is like a
arm band. And so as Jeremiah 17 seven,
which is hold on, I got it. Blessed are those who put their
trust in the Lord, whose trust is the Lord.

(01:43:32):
And so that's one of my favoriteverses.
I was doing the doing some reading and I was I had a goal
of like going through the whole Bible and that verse just stuck
out to me. And so I decided to get a tattoo
of it. And then the one closer up on my
shoulder, I have a symbol which is God is greater than the high,

(01:43:56):
high and lows. I made sure I went to get that.
And then above that I have like mountain tops.
And then I have the three crosses, young, just
symbolizing, you know what Jesus, what Jesus did for me.
Yeah, I always ask that. I'm just curious.
Yeah. I asked Tristan.

(01:44:19):
I had him on and then I had Isaiah on and he's got some
tattoos and then we ran out of time.
I didn't get to ask. Him, yeah.
And my main thing is just like, I know, like, you know, tattoos
are like a little controversial in like the Christian community,
but that's why I like whenever Idid decide to get, you know,

(01:44:40):
tattoos or if I decide to get more in the future, you know, I
want to make them all biblical based.
Yeah, because, you know, I know I guess like some type of
backlash, you know, that, you know, I could potentially get
with, you know, I, I think it's beneficial because I've had

(01:45:00):
people before, you know, accidentally by my tattoos and I
was like, no, that's a conversation.
This is the prickly, you know, conversation started to bring
people to Christ. So, you know, I don't think, you
know, they're necessarily evil or anything like that, but I
think, you know, it could help. Yeah, I'm getting ready to get
one. I just can't make up my mind

(01:45:21):
what I want it to be. I know something about my dad,
but yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Well, is there anything else youwanted to talk about be anything
or something we've already talked about?
Oh, I didn't say this earlier whenever I was sharing my

(01:45:42):
testimony, but whenever a guy gave me a reality check and I
dropped to my knees, I prayed and I prayed so hard for a
community. And so, and God answered that
prayer within, you know, the next month or month or two.
Yeah. And so, you know, if I I really
stress the fact that, you know, if you feel like you're an

(01:46:05):
active sin and you feel like there's no way of escaping, ask
God for a community of he would not follow him and he will
answer it. Yeah, obviously, you know, it
might not be right away, but it will come and you will be
satisfied through that. And eventually, hopefully, you

(01:46:27):
know they will. They can hold you accountable to
leave that life sin. Yeah, yeah, it's a sill for it.
Can't emphasize that. Can't emphasize it enough.
Yep. You know I'll believe if you can
help me. And you know, you guys have
heard my old testimony, so if itcould save someone like me, it
could save you too. Yeah, that's great.

(01:46:51):
Oh, I'll press out. All right.
Dear God, thank you for this day.
Thank you for this opportunity to sit down and have a great
conversation with Lee. And God, I should pray for him,
that you'll bless him. And come for him John close to
you is continues to fight his sin and God.

(01:47:14):
I pray for him and his girlfriend in the relationship
that they will build it on a strong foundation of your word
and your love and God. I pray for this podcast.
I just lay down at your feet andI surrender it to you, God,
whatever your will is, help me. Give me the wisdom to see it and

(01:47:35):
to to run the show accordingly. And I pray that someone will be
touched by the podcast. No matter.
It will really help someone out when they hear it today in
Christ, in my praying to end it.Amen.

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