Paula Roberts

Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
All right, we are here today with Paula Roberts and I'm going
to let you introduce yourself, which is kind of new here, but
you just want to introduce yourself and then just, I mean,
you can just talk about what whatever is on your mind, just
how things are going in your world.
And then we'll we'll jump into the testimony and all that.
OK, sounds good. I have been married going on 40

(00:24):
years to my husband Dean Roberts.
We were both born here and I've always lived here.
We got married very young at just after our freshman year in
college. If you can imagine that you're
about to go into college, Can you imagine getting married and,
you know, three months or Yeah, But anyway, we worked our way

(00:50):
through college and we have now flashing forward many, many
years. Or this could be a long
conversation. We have a daughter who is lives
in town now. She lived away for a while, but
she is back in one spur and she's an accountant here in
town. And we have a son and he is

(01:11):
married and they both live in town and they have of course 2
beautiful grandchildren that we spend a lot of time spoiling.
But I've retired from my career job as and educator and
administrator of a school system, and now I enjoy spending

(01:34):
as much time as possible with the grandchildren.
And my husband and I have our own business where we coach
runners and triathletes. And then.
Oh, wow, yeah. So a lot of fun getting to know
people who have big goals and wetie our business to Christ.
In fact, we're called RYR Endurance Team, which is based

(01:58):
on the Run Your Race scripture in Hebrew.
So we just enjoy getting to knowpeople and sharing our faith and
helping them grow physically andspiritually.
Last year we actually certified a marathon course here in town.
And so once a year people can actually qualify for Boston here

(02:19):
in our hometown, which you'll saw.
Pretty cool. Yeah, that's awesome.
So we spent a lot of time doing that.
We more recently we go to a muchsmaller church.
We've always attended in our married life.
We've always attended a rather large church here in once real
and loved every aspect of it andlove the pastor there.

(02:40):
But we both felt like the Lord was calling us to this really
small church. And we've gone there and it's
been fun getting to know the dynamic of a small church and
how much easier it is to not just kind of fly under the radar
and just actually get involved in serving and loving on others.
So we really enjoy that difference.
So that's kind of where we are now.

(03:01):
Good. So yeah, something I like to do
on every episode, it's just kindof ask, excuse me, about your
testimony. And I mean as much or as little
as you want to share and don't feel like you have to cut
anything out for time, that we have plenty of time.
OK so my parents were 33 when they met Jesus and fell in love

(03:27):
with him and understood what it meant to be saved, born again,
filled with the Holy Spirit and I love the Lord and I was 5.
And so I really cannot remember a time of not believing and
trusting in the Lord, but havingthat belief and trusting in the

(03:49):
Lord because your parents do, which you were raised in a
Christian home so you may relatewith us a little bit.
At some point you have to learn and know and understand those
things for yourself. And I can remember just very
young asking questions and wanting to personally
understand. And so my dad walked me through

(04:12):
Scripture and how to be saved, how to live out a life honoring,
living for Christ. And I believe I was nine years
old. I may have been 10, but I
believe I was nine years old. We were on a boating trip at
Lake Barkley, and I had gone up the night before with my
grandfather and got a terrible ear infection.

(04:37):
And this will all make sense to my.
Yeah, yeah, in a minute. But but the plan was my parents
would come up the next day and my father was going to baptize
me at the beach at Lake Barkley.And so the next morning I woke
up and I was very disappointed because my ear was still just

(05:00):
throbbing and in pain. So all that day, all my family
was out on the boat enjoying water skiing and I just laid on
the beach on a towel with my grandmother.
And so my dad finally came up tome.
Goes well kiddo, I don't think today is going to be the day
like to get baptized. It's like, no, I just really
think I need to get baptized. And so he's like, OK, but this

(05:25):
lake water in your ear probably not going to be a good mix.
So we went down and several family members and course, he
prayed with me and had me repeatthe common things that you
repeat before you're baptized. You know, just that confession
of faith and making sure he wantto make sure as a nine year old
also that I could articulate whyI wanted to, you know, publicly

(05:49):
profess my faith and be baptizedanyway.
And I'll never forget this when I came up after being immersed
in the water, my earache was completely gone, like a complete
healing for a nine year old. That's awesome.
And you know, I always wondered,you know, like, why did God give
me that gift? And again, you may relate to

(06:11):
this because you've grown up in a Christian home.
But as I got older, I would hearall these testimonies about how
people had that missing piece intheir life and they had that.
Like you've probably heard of the God shaped hole and how they
felt the huge transformation in their life in knowing Christ

(06:31):
versus not knowing Christ. And I'm thankful and blessed
that I never had that experienceof filling that emptiness or or
not believing in or knowing Christ.
So I'm really thankful for that.But I do think that God healed
me on that day so that if I everhad doubts that he was real,

(06:54):
that, that I may not have had that.
Oh, I felt empty and lost. And now I feel full because
thankfully I grew up in a Christian home and so I've
always believed and had the Lordin my life.
So I've never had that bullied. But I can always look back and
say, yeah, but I know his power.So I don't know.

(07:16):
I've hung on to that anytime I've had doubts.
So that was great. It was a great gift the Lord
gave to 9 year old kids. And and then as you went forward
from there after becoming a Christian, like how did your
like, if you don't mind sharing,like what have been some like

(07:37):
defining moments that helped like develop your faith?
Yeah, well, it was always important in my home that we
read our Bible and the focus never was like, I can, I can, I
know so much Scripture, but I'm not one to say, well, I mean, I
could say John 316 and the basicones, but it's not like I have
all of these different chapters and verses minimize.

(07:58):
But we just grew up on the word of God, studying the word of
God. And so that was always key in my
life. And then when I was, I had gone
to a private school through 6th grade, and then my parents
transitioned me to a public school.
And that's when I just really realized the darkness that was

(08:21):
in the world. And I mean, the only way to
fight that darkness is with light and with Christ.
And so actually in that year, in7th grade, I met my, I didn't
know it then, but my now husband.
So I started inviting him to go to different church things and I

(08:44):
had him talking with my parents and just seeing it through his
eyes, being all brand new just made me realize that I need to
study it and learn it in a way that I can articulate it, share
it with others. So I think that in middle school
was a big key factor in my growth.
And then in high school, which Iwas really surprised because

(09:08):
with it being a public high school, but there was such a
large Christian student union, like it wasn't even a fellowship
of Christian athletes. It was just called CSU Christian
Student Union. And it is high school kids, my
friends from all over that went to different churches and we
would just come together once a week at school and pray and

(09:30):
someone would share what they were learning in the Bible or
share their testimony. And so that was wonderful as
well. And.
Where was this? This was at Davis County.
OK, so you said that you went topublic school, middle of public
middle school, and that's where you really started to see like

(09:52):
what the world was like. Like, like, I'm not like the
like, I mean like the secular culture was like, and which I
think is kind of cool, 'cause then you ended up becoming a
teacher at Davis County Middle School and then.

(10:12):
Well, at 1 squirrel middle. School all right, Ellen Squirrel
school yeah. And then and then later you came
to the principal. Yes.
Do you want. If there's nothing like unless
I'm like skipping over somethingimportant, which I'm sure I am
just kind of what like how you. I'm not really sure what I'm

(10:34):
trying to say here, but like howyou came to to work there and
and then what could, and you said that when you were in those
school, you're trying to like kind of be a light to people
there. Like what that was like as a
teacher, right then as a student?
Right. So as a teacher, first of all,
it was opening to me on a numberof fronts.

(10:55):
I was a math teacher because I love math and I love students.
And so which, by the way, that'swhere I met your mom.
I was her. Oh yeah, I was actually Bo's
teacher 1st and then your mom's teacher.
Can't exactly remember how I wasgoing with that now.
But when I stepped into the classroom, I had options to go

(11:18):
into private education or publiceducation.
But I felt like, not that private schools aren't important
because they are extremely important.
In fact, my grandchildren are inprivate schools right now.
But for me, I felt like my mission was in the public
schools where there is all that darkness.

(11:41):
And I don't even know at that time if my mission was for the
kids who were in darkness or forthe kids who were in the light.
They were having to understand how to navigate the darkness.
Obviously, I'm there for everybody, but I didn't know
initially where I'd make the biggest impact.

(12:02):
And I think it was probably for the kids who were in darkness
who had never seen the light because they could just visually
see the difference in in the kindness and the love.
And I probably did break the rules.
Like, if they would ask me, I wouldn't, you know, tell them
that I had faith in Jesus. And I mean, I didn't just, I

(12:24):
mean, I honestly went into the classroom and taught
mathematics. Your mom can attest to that
fact. But you know, privately when
kids would come and talk with meone-on-one, I said, well, I can
give you lots of advice. And really in public schools,
I'm not supposed to give you theone true advice.
But if you ask and if your parents were OK with it, I'm

(12:46):
happy to talk with you. So it wasn't unusual that I
would follow up and call the home and talk with a parent.
And if they had their, if I had their permission, then I would
talk with the children about faith and just share with them.
I mean, there are a lot of things that can help a kid.
There's only one thing that can transform a child and it's not

(13:09):
me or you or math. It's it's Christ and what he did
for us. And so just being able to share
that. Yeah, absolutely.
That's one thing I've wondered about.
I'm getting ready to go to college to be a high school
teacher and I just kind of thinklike full am I going to go to
public or private school? Like I go to private school and,

(13:32):
and I can openly talk about my faith and all that, but but also
you, I mean private school, thankfully I was filled of
teachers professing faith and I was saying everyone, every kid
who goes to a private school is a Christian, but they're in that
environment. And then at the public school,
you've got kids who are lost and, and maybe never get any

(13:57):
Christian influence all week. And but then it's like, well, am
I breaking the rules here? And that's definitely something
I've wondered about. But.
I mean, I think you have to navigate it differently.
For example, if I were a teacherin our local Christian schools
like Heritage or Grace, I think the expectation in the norm

(14:18):
would be, well, let's pray aboutthis or you cannot pray with you
about those or what's your struggle and bringing Christ to
the forefront of all of that. But in the public schools, and
you know, it's for a good reason.
For example, if my child was in a public school and they had a

(14:39):
teacher of Muslim faith or a Buddhist face, like I wouldn't
want that teacher professing that faith.
First of all, don't believe those are true faiths.
And so, so I get that it there needs to be some guidelines
there. But in the in the public
schools, there is such a greaterneedle.

(15:00):
You don't have to go to Peru or wherever for a mission field
like it's right here in our hometown.
And so just involving the parents and make offering that
willingness to you get a whole lot of opportunities to reach
the so far unreached right. And you know, that's what the

(15:22):
Great Commission is like. We are called to share the good
news of Christ and just figuringout how to do that without
losing your job. Right.
Yeah, I totally agree. And with that, you also don't
want to make enemies with the parent it on any front because
you never want the child to feellike they're in the middle.

(15:43):
You always want the child to feel like the adults are a teen.
That's wanting the child the best for the child.
Yeah, for sure. Yeah.
And this kind of, this is on topic, but also kind of a
sidetrack, which is fine. Half of my episodes like what
I've done so far, half of it hasjust been sidetracks.

(16:03):
But for for like a Christian parent who has kids and they're
trying to decide whether to put them in a public school or
private school. Do you think it's better for a
kid to go to private school where you have that constant
godly influence, but not necessarily as much

(16:27):
opportunities like sports and extracurriculars and and
different types of classes and all that?
Or, or better to go to public school where the the parent can
still like pour into the child, but they're not the kids not
getting that every single day. And then also they might be
getting other influences that that are bad or I personally, I

(16:49):
think it's kind of like it depends on the kid.
Like if you have, which I'll letall, all you say what you think
is, but I, I think it really just depends on the kid.
Like if you have someone who like really is desiring those
opportunities, but is also a believer and is strong in their
faith. And you know that there's people

(17:10):
at that school that will be ableto, like, walk with them through
that, I thought. But I'm not a parent.
Right. And, and I think that that is
the most important thing like God gave coat you Cody and Cody
you and God gave me Jacob and Bethany.
And you know God has now given my son my 2 wonderful

(17:34):
granddaughters. And I think as the parent is
praying and being led by the Spirit, they may not always get
the same answer. Like the Lord may tell me to
send my children to or lead me to send my children to public
schools and lead you someday to send your children to private

(17:55):
school. So I think it really does depend
on the children. I know families now where they
have one child in the public school and one child in a
private school, just for different reasons.
But if I had to to give one answer, I think younger the

(18:17):
private school, faith-based private school is the way to go.
And this is no assault on our local public schools.
I feel like we live in an area where our public schools are
wonderful. All of our elementary schools in
the county and all of our elementary schools in the city.

(18:37):
I just think they have a lot of Christian teachers in those
schools. I know of Christian principals
and Christian leadership in someof the schools.
And so I don't know, there's just so many good choices here
in our town and that's a blessing, but that's not the
case in every town. So which this is a really a

(19:01):
tangent. You mentioned, you mentioned you
had talked to DJ Johnson. He and I have have talked about
this just very briefly and I don't know him personally.
He called me if you're a completely different reason, and
we got off on the subject of school choice and state funding

(19:21):
of school choice. And I said, oh, I have all kinds
of ideas on how that could be a win, win on both sides of the
argument. And then he's like, wow, we need
to talk about that sometime. So I do believe that public
funds can be used for private education if it's done
correctly, but nobody's talking about how to do it correctly

(19:42):
because everybody would rather just argue about it.
Yeah, yeah, I said last in November, I think they're trying
to put through like it was like Amendment 2.
I don't remember what it was in what the amendment was for, but
basically that state funding could go to private schools and
didn't pass unfortunately. Yeah, it did not pass, but you

(20:04):
know, there's good arguments on both sides, but if both sides
would come to the table, there'seasy ways.
For example, here's the biggest argument, and I don't want to
get off on politics because I could talk about that all day
and it's really not my it's not my favorite topic, I guess.
But the big thing from the public school perspective is

(20:27):
you're taking resources away from public schools.
And that if you take that state funded money and say give it to
Heritage or give it to Grace forthat child, it's not going to be
enough money. For example, say the state
voucher is worth 5000, but it costs 8000 to go to Grace.

(20:49):
That helps the family who can afford the extra 3000, but it
leaves the poorest without choice.
So you've got the haves who havechoice and the have nots who
don't have choice. So it would be very easy to fix.
And I think private schools would be open to it as well, to
just say if you're a private school and you want to receive

(21:12):
state funding, then you have to accept this, the state and local
vouchers as payment in full so that regardless of the financial
situation of the family, any child would actually have a
choice. And I think that would fix it.
But I'm not sure anybody's looking to fix it.
They just argue. And there'll still be another.

(21:39):
I think there's another cycle inin 26 maybe then.
Well hopefully it will be wordedon the ballot differently too
because most people are calling me going when I read this.
I don't even know if voting yes is to say it like it was just
word Hercule. Like what does a vote of yes

(21:59):
mean? Yeah, that's so.
But if they word it in a way that yes is no and people vote
no, that's going to pass 'cause people just vote no when it
comes to constitutional amendments.
Period. Yeah.
People are are adverse to change.
Yeah, for sure. I mean it.

(22:20):
I feel like a lot of people who who don't really keep up with
with like what's going on locally or or even nationally,
like with politics, those see stuff that looks like a big
change will be like, well, I have heard a thing about this,
so it must not be a big deal. And then they'll just go now
when, when he, even if you're not like always thinking like

(22:43):
this is something that needs to change, doesn't mean that it
just means you're not aware of it, you know, like you don't
know how much better it could beif this change were to go
through. I think it's really important to
pay attention to what's going on.
Yeah, it's so important because there's so much information
about these buzzwords. You know, one party or the other

(23:05):
will put out a buzzword that sounds great.
So if I say I'm against whateverthe buzzword is, it sounds like
I'm a terrible. Person.
But then when you dig in to whatthe website says, and I'll I'll
just use this was you can cut itout if you don't want your
podcast to like I don't blow outcut.

(23:26):
Anything out unless you want. Me to you take things like Black
Lives Matter. Black Lives matter.
That's. Who it would be against that,
right? Some of my best friends and some
of my wonderful students. Like their skin color happens to
be black. But then when you go look at
their website and you find out what's behind all of that, it

(23:50):
really doesn't have to do with anybody's skin color.
And it's it's just that's all I'll say about that.
But if you say you're against that, you sound racist or so.
But yeah, DEI is another one. There are a lot of people that
think that if you go to Kroger and there's a special needs

(24:13):
individual there, lovely person,bagging your groceries, that
that's because of DEI. That's not because of DEI.
That existed well before DEI. So people are fighting to keep
something that they don't understand the underlying issues
and what's happening with it. So yeah, lots of things sound

(24:35):
good and you sound bad if you'reagainst them, but you just don't
understand the impact and what'sreally behind the buzzwords.
Yeah, and for anyone listening to isn't upon it.
DEI is a diversity, equity, inclusion, which are all very
great words that mean great things.

(24:56):
But, but basically it's a, it was a initiative where to a
company essentially has to make a like a, a quota of a certain
amount of people who are this gender or, or this race or this
sexuality. And, and it's, it was focused a

(25:17):
lot less on like merit based jobofferings.
Like it, it, it started making things based less on like, can
you actually do this job well? And well, we do need another,
this type of person on our team.So we're going to hire you and.
Yeah. And just as a funny example, as
a funny example of this, which with you being a, a white

(25:41):
evangelical Christian male, you're the biggest victim in all
of, in all of this. But my niece a few years back,
she's a resident now in Med school, but a few years back she
was going in for her interview to see if she would get accepted
into Med school. And of course, you're extremely

(26:02):
nervous. And I was sitting in the car
with her. I had taken her down there to do
this. We were sitting in the parking
garage and she was just jokinglybecause she knew how many people
they were accepted and she knew how many people were being
interviewed. And she was just jokingly go
because, you know, she's a female, which gives her an
advantage in this equation. It shouldn't because I want to.

(26:22):
I don't care if a doctor. I don't care anything about a
doctor except for can this doctor stitch up my arm
correctly? Like that's what I care about.
But we're just joking. She goes, Oh, well, he's, he's a
white guy. That's one less song.
Like she was just teasing. So I've got an advantage 'cause
she knew that it was just all silly.

(26:44):
And, and I feel like the, and I've even talked about this on
the podcast before about the pendulum effect, where before we
have this cultural idea of only white men have the best jobs.
And then and whether this is true or not, the, the pendulum,
the the culture swings the pendulum too far and now it's no

(27:07):
white men get the jobs. And I don't think either one of
those two extremes ever were true or should be true.
But it just kind of it's hard. It it's like culture, like the
secular culture doesn't want to find a middle ground or they
don't know how. But yeah, I've definitely, I've
never personally experienced that, but I've heard about it
all the time. And it's I want my doctor to be

(27:32):
hired because they're a great doctor or not because they're
whatever they are. Right.
And here's the here's the effectof the ER and it's a it's a it's
a unintentional consequence. But I actually thought about
this more from a a black pastor.I won't mention his name, just

(27:52):
going to have permission to quote him.
But he was furious when all these policies came into effect
because he's like, well, now if they hire me as a pastor, are
they going to think it's becauseI was the best fit or are they
going to think it's because of my skin color?

(28:14):
And he said, take that to the next level.
And now when you get on an airplane, if you see someone of
color, are you going to think it's ADEI hire rather than the
best hire? He said, Which is ridiculous
because you can be a great pilotregardless of your skin color,
but these policies might cause people who otherwise wouldn't

(28:37):
think about it twice. And this was the I hadn't
thought of this, but this was the perspective of this black
pastor that I won't share his name because he just shared that
with me and confident on me. So.
Yeah, I mean, that's totally right.
And it, you know, I mean that even that's like it, it's
backfiring on the people we're putting in place because and

(28:59):
because if people are really like the Pi don't know who came
up with this, But if these people really like, if they're
really doing it so that everyonelike no matter, like if black
people are viewed just as favorably as white people to
have a job, and then it ends up having that effect.
That's just, they're just shooting themselves in the foot,
which I had no idea what their motives were, But it's a lot of

(29:22):
companies are coming off of DI since Trump's been in office and
he made it the policy of the government not to do that.
Of course private companies can do whatever they want, but a lot
of them are backing off of it too, which is great.
Well, it's so funny because I, Isaw something on social media
about, well, yeah, yeah, look how Target stock is doing and

(29:44):
how poorly their first quarter financials were because they
came off of all the DEI stuff. And I'm thinking, well about 3
years ago they completely alienated the right with all
their other policies and now they've alienated the left.
So who's left? Like.
Yeah, I think it's great that all our companies are, are have

(30:09):
quit the DI stuff, but also they're doing it for the wrong
reasons. It's because of money.
It's a lot of, I, I don't want to like make a ton of
assumptions or anything, but I, I think probably 9 times out of
10, these big companies, they'redoing this because of whichever
way the tide is turning, not because they personally believe

(30:29):
something to strike, because they change their policies all
the time to whatever culture thinks is right.
Which if they were smart, they would stay out of it completely
because the country couldn't be anymore 5050.
Yeah, I mean, you sell cereal and bananas, you don't need to
be involved in any A. Democrat dollar and a Republican

(30:49):
dollar right are in dollar coming into the company.
So yeah, stay out of politics, Target.
Yeah, OK. So.
How do we get off on this? Sorry.
I can talk about politics for a long time, and I try not to on
the show, but yeah. So you were a math teacher at

(31:11):
Owensboro Middle and then eventually you became the
principal. I did.
So how long were you a teacher before you became a principal?
Yeah, so I taught for seven years.
I taught math and I also starteda math team there because the
county schools were winning all these state championships and I

(31:33):
we couldn't be having that. So we got our math team to
become a When I went to Owensboro Middle School, there
were fifth grade parents in the city who are taking their kids
the county for these math team scholarships because he people
kids were getting four year scholarships by the time they
were leaving 8th grade. And so by the time I left the

(31:55):
classroom, it was just the reverse.
There were people in the county who were enrolling in ones for
middle school for our math team program.
And I'm happy to say that that program was still intact and
gutsling even after retirement. So I coached the math team.
And then even though I wasn't a runner at the time, I'm they

(32:16):
knew my husband was a runner. And, you know, schools just need
people to pitch in. So I also coached track and
cross country at the middle school.
So that's fun. I learned already knew most of
the stuff about math that I learned a whole lot about
running. So that was fun.
And then I saw I did that for seven years and honestly, I plan

(32:37):
on doing that my entire career because I love the classroom.
I've loved coaching math team. I loved interacting personally
with the kids. But there was a professor in
college who just latched on to me early and he's like, girl,
you have leadership skills, You have got to go into educational
leadership. And I was like, well, I do have

(32:59):
to get my masters and I do have to wish I got my masters in math
just because if I ever wanted toteach at the college level, then
I would be credentialed to do that as well.
And he's like, OK, well, when you do your rank one, please do
it in Ed leadership. I said, well, I'll do it, but
I'm never leaving the classroom.And then in my 6th and 7th year

(33:24):
teaching, Ken Willis, senior wasthe principal at the at that
time the middle school had split.
When I first started teaching itwas 6th, 7th and 8th, but they
had split 5678. And so I taught him both
buildings. But the principal at the 5-6 was
Ken Willis. And I guess he also decided I

(33:46):
had leadership potential. So when he was going to be out
for a day for something, he would get a sub for my classroom
and I would be principal for theday.
So that's kind of how it all started.
So you know, it, it was, you know, man makes his plans, but
God directs his steps. Yeah, I was planning to be a

(34:06):
classroom teacher for 27 years or however many years I decided
to work. And but anyway, so my in my 7th
year, there was an assistant principal job available actually
at College View and at OwensboroMiddle School.
And I was offered both positions.

(34:29):
And I just really had to think and pray about it because it was
going to determine where my children went to school and
where I would spend my career. And I really battled back and
forth, but I just, I don't know,I just really felt like I was
supposed to stay at once for a middle school and so became

(34:51):
assistant principal there and has such a great principal.
His name is Joe Conway. He's a great mentor.
And he was just very supportive of ideas that I would have.
And then in my second year as assistant principal under him,
he came to me. He goes, I know you're not going
to like to hear this, but I'm going to retire and I didn't

(35:13):
after. Two years.
I did not like to hear that and he said you really are my dog.
Yep, there's your dog. You really need to apply for
this principal job. And I really wasn't sure about
that. But anyway, went home, talked
with my husband about it becausey'all had two young children and
I knew what the principal job entailed.

(35:36):
And so I prayed about it and just went ahead and applied for
it, got the job. And so then, but it was great.
Like we were really able to keepa nice Christian culture in our
school without really not that we were proclaiming Christ, but
we kept very moral standards andjust tried to model Christ like

(36:01):
behavior with it. And it just worked out well.
And it's really interesting because Satan attacks and I can
think of a couple of stories that will.
The first thing when I got the job, which I didn't even know
this, when I got the job, the newspaper reporter wanted to

(36:21):
make it all about me being the first woman ever in the City
Schools to be the principal at alevel above the elementary
schools. Like there never been a high
school or middle school female principal.
I didn't know that and I didn't care.
And I just, which is funny because we talked about DEI just

(36:42):
looked at that reporter. I said, I don't want this
article to be about that. I said, I don't feel like I got
this job because I was a boy or a girl.
I, I got this job because I worked really hard and have
gained the credibility of the community because at that time
the site based councils selectedthe principal.

(37:04):
So it was my, my teacher friendsthat I taught side by side with
and then the parents that made the decision.
And so like, can we just make itabout what we're wanting to do
and not about that? I'm a woman, so even back then I
wasn't really in the DEI. I'd never heard of it, but I
wasn't into that. But you know, the every morning

(37:28):
as principal, I would get there.I try to get there 30 minutes
before everybody else. I'd walk the hallways and just
pray over the school. And Lord, please keep us safe
because, you know, that's when Itransition into the principal
job. That's when you just started
hearing about these mass shootings.

(37:49):
I cannot think of anything that could possibly be worse in the
day of the life at a school. But then something like that
happens. So just walk the halls and pray
for the safety of the kids and that I would shine a light for
his name and so just really wanted to pray every morning and

(38:10):
he showed up a couple of storiesI had this was probably my third
year as principal. I had a really contentious
teacher on my site based councilwho no matter what direction we
were trying to take would just try to blow hose in.
And then I really tried to not have to take a vote at the

(38:31):
council meeting. Like I wanted everyone on the
council to be on board before wemove forward.
And it just what happened. And so I, we were well into the
meeting and I took a break. I said let's just take a 5
minute break. So I literally went into the
teachers lounge, into the restroom, got on my knees and

(38:52):
prayed and I didn't. And then I went back in having
not heard anything from the Lord, like just gone back into
the meeting. And then out of my mouth came
like this solution that I had not even thought of and that
contentious teachers like, Yep, that'll be great.
And you know, so the Lord shows up and one another story, which

(39:15):
was interesting, just talking about faith in leadership and in
the public schools is there was a leader from it.
It's similar to the Gay StraightAlliance, but it was called
something else back then. And we had a boy which I didn't
even know this, like I knew the boy, but I didn't know this, but
a boy who was an eighth grader and his mother.

(39:38):
And this representative from this organization, it was a
LBGTQ organization. They came into my office and
we're pushing that we needed to create diversity education.
And he brought me a curriculum that which now they're trying to

(40:00):
normalize these things. Back then they were just trying
to like on the side of acceptingit.
Now they want it normal, but back then it was still
accepting. So it's been a whole big
transition. So in my lifetime, it's been.
Taboo and then it's been kind ofit accepted and then it was

(40:24):
affirmed and then it was normalized and now celebrated.
And some of you, it's just been funny, like in my lifetime
watching that transition. That's that's crazy for me to
think about. As far back as I can remember,
it's just been celebrated. Like that's just something to me

(40:44):
that is always been part of culture and it changed so fast.
Like when I look back at like, Ireally like history.
I kind of want to be a history teacher.
I'm I'm stuck between history orscience.
But I mean, just I look back andI just like there's some things
in American history that blow mymind that were ever happening

(41:08):
and that that must be like one of the top ones.
Just how quick things changed. Yeah, that was all.
I'm 58 and that was all in my lifetime.
Like, I mean, it's just crazy. And with you, you went to
private schools as a young. Yeah, I didn't.
I build every type of school very much but.
Actually even be protected in that private school environment

(41:31):
and recognizing that. Yeah, that's interesting.
Yeah. So.
But anyway, they were in my office and they were trying to
get me to. Because evidently this boy was
saying that he was a homosexual,which to me, I do not like
labeling people. I do not believe someone is a
homosexual. I believe that there are people

(41:54):
who are sucked into the sin of homosexuality.
And we all have like, I'm not judging that sin over another
sin. Like we all have our areas from
birth that we have to fight in temptations that we have to
fight and overcome. And yeah, absolutely.
So to me, this is that's what this is.

(42:15):
But anyway, he went on and on and I'm like we'll say in our
school wasn't diverse and our school wasn't accepting.
Now you have to understand, Owensboro Middle School had the
biggest African American population, the biggest Hispanic
population, the biggest special needs population.
And so I said, well, let's just go tour our school.

(42:36):
And so we, I sent the boy to class and I think the mom had to
go to work. But me and the gentleman, we
tour the school and he sees all different types of kids working
together. But I tell you, what really got
caught. His heart is our school educates
the students at the Wendell Foster Center that has a special

(42:59):
needs for people who weren't even know like that's a local
organization that's very dear tomy heart and they take care of a
lot of cerebral palsy children, just special needs, especially
with a lot of fiscal barriers toovercome.
And we went into that classroom and he saw like all of our

(43:24):
population in there. Like, I mean, they weren't all
in there, but all of our generalEd population kids, some of them
would circulate through and volunteer and he would even see
those kids included and how loved they were.
And anyway, we got back to our office and I said, So what kind
of diversity did you see? And so he, it's like, it's just

(43:46):
amazing. Like I loved how all of that
dynamic was going. I said, well, I'm going to tell
you why we don't include the L GB TQI said the majority, not
all I said, but the majority of our families believe in the
Bible and they believe that homosexuality, sexuality is sin.

(44:09):
I said, and we cannot teach things that aren't true like in
our school. We have to stick to what's true.
And I left it at that. I didn't want to get too far
into this like I didn't quote scripture and why it's true or
any. And he's like, I understand and
he never came back. And I'm like, thank you Jesus

(44:32):
for that miracle. So as principal, do you think it
was easier or or harder to be a light and to share the gospel as
it was as a teacher? Cause 'cause as a principal I
think you have more influence, but then also the stakes are
higher and you you have more influence.

(44:52):
So I feel like people might havemore of an issue.
Was someone doing that? Yeah.
It was complete. It was completely different
because as a as a teacher, you had that relationship, that
one-on-one relationship with theparents and with the student.
And so you could have conversations, but as a
principal you had more influenceoverall of what could happen in

(45:16):
the school. So it's a bigger impact, but
you're also warding off a lot ofexternal influence.
And I can just remember this. I'm still friends with this
father. Like it just baffles me when I
think about the church he attends and my it just baffles
me. And I still see him at the
health park when I go work out that we were having the IT was

(45:39):
meet me at the pole day. And you know, we did that at
Owensboro Middle School every year and so that we would make
an announcement and it was before school and we just say,
you know, the, the student unionis having meet me around the
pole if you would like to come and pray that.

(45:59):
And so we had this huge gathering of students just, and
the, the adults weren't doing the praying like the students
were doing the praying which. I love that that meeting at the
pole. Yeah, love it.
Well, you know, the flagpole in the front of the school and
parent drop off line, which I was mostly not participating in
the meet me at the school because I was mostly making sure

(46:23):
right for a safe and singles drop off line.
You know, we don't want anybody getting run over because I've
got my head bowed and like, you know, there's practical pieces
to this and this dad comes through and he goes, you can't
do this. Next year, I'm going to send a
bunch of these star naming all these like a false religions and

(46:45):
I'm going to send these people to pray at your pole and just
screamed it and the kids just ignored him and kept praying.
So I'm like, like, I didn't acknowledge it.
Like I didn't say anything back to him.
And I still to this day have never mentioned that to him.
So, but you know, there's all kinds of opinions out there.

(47:06):
And you catch more heat as the principal.
You do, yeah. Yeah.
Everything that goes on the school is ultimately the
principal's fault. And you know the the primary
mission of the public school is not to like the mission is not
like a faith-based school where Christ is in the mission.
Like the primary mission is whenyou graduate, I want you knowing

(47:26):
your math and your science. And by the way, you were asking
earlier if you should go into public schools or private
schools. If you go into history, please
go into public schools. Oh my.
Yeah, it's a. It's an issue for sure.
It's, it's a huge issue because it's just, it's crazy the

(47:51):
rewriting of history right now, so.
Yeah, and it's history is like you can't, you can't change
math, you can't change science. Like those things are constants.
And and then people think that they can change history.

(48:13):
And I feel like out of any subject that would be taught at
school aside from maybe Bible, but if we're talking about like
public school history for sure is the one you don't want to
change. And, and that's the one that
people are changing because it's, and I mean, that's just
like all, if you really study history, it's one giant pattern.

(48:33):
The same stuff happens over and over again like that saying the
history repeats itself is absolutely true.
And if you start, start changinghistory to make one group of
people who look worse than another or, or just leave
certain stuff out, like you're not telling the full story.
And then and you're teaching this incomplete or just straight

(48:55):
up false story to the next generation of people who are
going to be the leaders of of your community, of the schools
of the country. And and if they don't fully
understand what's gone on in thepast, they're just going to end
up making the same mistakes. Yeah, So I I went to Kentucky
Wesleyan in town and it was already like when I was in

(49:20):
college, which was in the mid 80s, it was already extremely
liberal advice, but nowhere to the degree it is now.
So it will be interesting as youenter college, which I think
you're going in with your eyes wide open.
Like even though you've been in private education, I think you
have some awareness of what, especially at the college level,

(49:43):
these public professors have bought into.
And when they, I mean, it's veryagenda driven.
And the way I battled this and Iran in this into this in
religion classes of all things at Wesleyan is they would come
up with all these theories basically saying why the word of

(50:10):
God is not inerrant and it's notabsolutely true and everything
that's I don't believe. So the way you would get around
it or the way I got around it iswhen they would give an essay
and I was supposed to explain one of these theories.
Well, you had to show that you knew that.

(50:30):
So it didn't look like you were just trying to get out.
Like I couldn't say, well, you have all these theories, but let
me tell you what really like that's not going to work.
So I would like my essays, whichwe had these blue books that we
wrote our essays in. I would say, dear so and so,
whomever the professor was. So here is the theory you're

(50:51):
wanting me to say. And so I would say it all, and
then my whole last half would be.
But here is why it's not true. So I would have everything I was
tested on, but I didn't give up.That's also.
Ruth And I don't think I know itall.
Like I'm sure there's, I could probably go back to those blue
books and things that I wrote that were not 100% accurate

(51:14):
either. But I was really trying to
adhere to truth and people thinkit's loving to accept all these
sins in people and. Not loving.
Them even if you read first Corinthians chapter 13, it tells
you you got to speak the truth like there you can't separate

(51:37):
love and truth so. And you're not loving people by
allowing them to keep doing these sins.
Like, like things that are sinful are sinful, like for a
reason. Like God made these things sense
for a reason. Because they're not, not just
because he doesn't like him and he doesn't, but because they're
just straight up bad for us. There's not a single thing you
can do that's going to end up benefiting you.

(51:59):
Yeah, and he knows more than us.And that's hard for a prideful
mankind to admit that we don't know it all.
And that's to me. That's why different
denominations argue over, say, Idon't know, what's a big thing.
Churches argue over that, maybe Calvinism versus Armenianism,

(52:19):
like, OK, I see some truth in this one.
I see some truth in this one. The the possibility is that God
knows way more than we know. So why are we going to fight
about these things? That's that's kind of where I
land on on those issues. Yeah, and, and you're mentioning

(52:41):
having to give presentation about what your teacher thought
or not what you're thinking. But I, I've, I've had some
teachers that are like that. And then the best teachers I've
ever had are teachers who teach their students not like they
don't teach their students what to think.

(53:01):
They teach their students how tothink.
And not going to run into a lot of that.
Yeah. And it I've only maybe had a
couple of teachers who really focus on that.
And and it's hard to teach like that.
It's hard to not Give your opinion and say this is what is
true. And I think there are certain, I
think there are certain places where you do need to say this is

(53:22):
what is true. But I mean, just like the public
education I've had talking aboutthat, I've had a few teachers
where even if they're not Christians, they can, I don't
even know if this is right or not because they're doing that
like whatever, they're acceptingeveryone.
So they let me give my point of view from Christianity, which I

(53:46):
love that they're doing that. But also I like, I don't know if
it's out of a good heart or not.So I don't even really know how
to put this in the words. But I but also I have had one
Christian teacher who just asidefrom Bible class.
So he taught a bunch of different classes.
It's kind of a unique situation,but he taught like in science
especially, we would talk about make your energy versus like

(54:10):
other like fossil fuels. And he would at the beginning of
every conversation, he just kindof be like, I'm not going to
tell you guys what to think. I'm going to teach you how to
think. Here are the facts and you need
to tell me what you think is best.
So he he taught us how to think about things, what's it called?

(54:31):
Like critical thinking skills. And then he also taught us how
to formulate an argument. And I really appreciated that.
Yeah, you definitely want students to learn how to take in
information and find the truth on their own.
Yeah, and you know, used to the litmus test on whether or not a

(54:51):
history teacher was a good history teacher or not is if you
really didn't know where they stood politically.
But I don't know how you do thatanymore because the Curry, like
if you teach the curriculum you're landing on, you believe a
certain side. And so if you just say I'm not

(55:15):
teaching that, then people automatically know what side you
land on. So it would it would be tough to
navigate history, but important,I think being important.
Yeah, I I really like history and I think it's so important
that it's preserved correctly and talk correctly.

(55:37):
Yeah, Abby and should talk to you after a year of going
through. Yeah.
The history department in the university.
Yeah, I'm like, I feel ready, but also I don't really know
what I'm going to run into. Like, I'm not completely sure
what it's going to be like that.Yeah, well, just weigh

(55:58):
everything against the Word of God.
He will. He will give you the wisdom.
Yeah, Amen. So, so I also, my girlfriend
told me you were on the Owensboro Board of Education.
And so that's for all the schools in the city, like aside
from the county I. Worked at central office.

(56:19):
I was not an elected board member, but when I was after my
principal job, I became the assistant Superintendent.
There were a few steps in between, but I went to central
office and I became the assistant Superintendent of
instruction. So I was on the cabinet of the
Superintendent. And so that's always like my job

(56:41):
was just a lot of it was dealingwith paperwork and keeping all
the things off the plate of principles just and, you know,
leading and guiding instruction,those types of things.
But being on that cabinet reallygave me an opportunity to keep
that conservative Christian value going.

(57:04):
And when I first moved there, itwasn't that important all that
important because the Superintendent himself was
fairly conservative on things. And so that was OK.
But in toward the end of my career, I actually moved over to
finance and operations. I became the chief finance and
operations officer. So if somebody had to drive in

(57:28):
the morning to cancel school, that was me.
So never been so grateful to nothave to worry about snow anymore
when I retire. But then I was also the finance
officer. But, and all that was just, I
mean it, it was a lot of accounting and keeping track and
being fiscally responsible and making sure resources were spent

(57:52):
in a way that maximize student learning and keeping an eye on
that. But the other piece of it is
being in the the cabinet. Like I was really there as the
finance officer to talk about the finances.
But the Superintendent finally got to the point where he'd say,
all right, Paul, you've been awfully quiet over there because

(58:13):
I was the sole. There was one other person that
was conservative that he had retired.
And so I was the only conservative among a bunch of
educators which who they tend tolean more liberal anyhow.
But there were definitely sometimes that I talked them off

(58:33):
the ledge. And I'll give this one example.
I'll try not to be very specific, but in one of our
elementary schools they had students dress up for Halloween.
This boy dressed up. Always something with Halloween.
I don't know, this might take a turn you're not expecting

(58:54):
though. Though this boy dresses up as a
female witch. He gets a lot of attention and
now and 3rd grade I believe. Maybe second but I think he was
1/3 grader. The details after a while kind
of faded a little bit, but the boy got a lot of attention.
For some reason, he and his mother decided he was now a she.

(59:19):
Oh, they were like, actually. Oh yeah, I thought you were
saying he just was like. It's kind of.
He didn't realize. That's kind of how it started.
But he got the attention and I don't know if it was the boy.
Like this is just how we found out about like, I don't know the
history of how this boy and his mother got to this point, but
they were at the school asking the teacher to quit calling me

(59:42):
by this boy name and start calling me by this girl name.
And I'm potentially being a little bit vague here because I
don't want to. But anyway, so the principal and
she was a Christian was trying to navigate all this.
And anyway, at the cabinet meeting, the way I became aware
of it, because I wasn't even in instruction anymore.

(01:00:03):
I was paying the bills and creating the budgets.
And so our at the cabinet meeting is where I.
Found out about it. And so our Superintendent had
our public relations person likethey work together to write this
letter that they were going to send out to the whole school,

(01:00:23):
the entire school about this onelittle boy.
And it probably wasn't going to name the boy, but it was an
opportunity for a liberal mindedperson to wave the flag to, you
know, do the DEI thing, you know.
And so I'm, I'm reading they pass out the letter, which

(01:00:44):
fortunately they hadn't sent theletter yet.
Like they at least did ask the cabinet.
And I'm just really quiet. And it has words like like if it
just said be kind to everybody, whatever.
But it was like it had words like except and affirm and
whatever. And so I'm just really quiet.

(01:01:05):
And the Superintendent asks me, he's like, I know you're
thinking a thing or two over there.
And I said, well, I'm going to go back to what I always say.
Like more than half of our district are professing
Christians and this will be likea moral issue for them.

(01:01:25):
I said. But before we even get into
that, like I want you to name meone other time that there's been
an issue with one student and weat central office have sent a
letter to an entire student bodies homes.
Like about one kid. About anything like naming one

(01:01:46):
other thing, one thing I don't care.
And he couldn't think of a thing.
And then I think it really made him realize that he was kind of
stepping out of bounds to push something that in any way.
But you know, I don't take credit for those things.

(01:02:07):
Like I just think the Lord kind of put those thoughts and
discernment in me to try to leave the school district.
And I was still worried about retiring, but I couldn't stay
there forever. So, but just things like that in
at the central level, you're nowa completely removed from the
parents and the students until something like that arises.

(01:02:31):
And then like, Lord, how can youuse me?
I can't even tell you whatever happened with this.
Like I've never met the student,I never met the mother.
But I do know that from our central office, we did not send
out that letter. I felt really good about that.
So a lot of examples like that. Do you want to talk about

(01:02:52):
teacher unions? We kind of be stepping back into
politics a little bit. Yeah, we don't talk about
teacher unions. You I don't know as much as I
should about them, which I should know more because I want
to be a teacher, but but I do know that they a lot of times
tend to leap lean very liberally.
And, and I don't know if this isjust cause a lot of times when I

(01:03:15):
hear about teachers unions, I it's about California.
I don't know if there's just something over there, but
someone, I heard something on the news either on Daily Wire or
on Albert Mueller, the briefing,someone said something about
teachers unions. Every person in teachers union

(01:03:36):
either is or are married to someone in public office in
California or something like that.
That's pretty much all I could say about him.
But yeah, if you want to. So I will shed a little bit of
light in this mind. Don't even be the direction
you're thinking of, but in Owensboro, KY, we do not have
teacher unions, OK? We have teacher organizations,

(01:03:58):
which is a little bit different because with a teacher union,
teachers sign a union contracts,leadership with the district,
you sign union contracts and you're tied to a bunch of
things. That's not what we have here.
What we have is the Owensboro Education Association, the Davis
County Education Association, the Kentucky Education

(01:04:20):
Association and the National Education Association.
So although not unionized, they're still extremely liberal,
which as a young 22 year old coming out of college, got my
first job and comes in and they they give you stuff and they
have you sign papers. I'm like, yeah, well, you've got

(01:04:42):
extra insurance. And so me not knowing anything,
I sign these papers and I'm now a member of ones for Education
Association, which you can't just be a member of OEA, you
have to pay the KEANNEA dues as well.
And so I don't know, about halfway into the year of maybe
even my second or third of teaching, because I didn't know

(01:05:06):
they were just taking those duesand I didn't know.
I started reading the National Education Association's
platform, and it had nothing to do with students and learning.
It was all these liberal standards even back then.
And so I called my central office and I said, I need to get

(01:05:27):
out of this organization becauseif you do something and you
don't know you're doing it, that's one thing.
But if you can continue sending money to an organization that is
pressing progressive liberal agendas, which weren't even as
liberal then as now, I was like,I can't be a part of that.

(01:05:50):
And the response was, well, I'm sorry, I got called the business
department. They're like, I'm sorry, we only
have open enrollment in October,so we can't change your dues
until next year. I said, I don't think you
understand. Like I just found this out and I
cannot give another dime to the National Education Association.

(01:06:11):
So anyway, they said, well, you're going to have to talk to
the Superintendent. And the Superintendent was just
as nice as he could be and said we're going to make an
exception. And, you know, I mean, they
valued me as a classroom teacher, like, and he's like, of
course we're. Going to not make her pay.
This so I get I gained favor of that, but here's what I will

(01:06:34):
talk more about the Department of Education because people are
getting all bent out of shape that the current administration
wants to dismantle the Department of Education.
And you would think of all people who was a finance officer
in a public school, I would be the person most been out of

(01:06:54):
shape. But I'm not because all of that
money. Could be funneled.
To the school districts without having a Department of Education
and in fact, until Jimmy Carter started the Department of
Education in the 70s, public schools.

(01:07:16):
Functioned just fine. And there's been zero
improvement. There's actually been a
worsening in the performance of public schools since the
Department of Education. So at best, the Department of
Education is a huge waste of money.
You just think of all those salaries that are being paid at

(01:07:36):
the national level that never funnel.
And then there's salaries then at the Kentucky Department of
Education to handle all the federal money.
So it goes through lots of layers of bureaucracy before it
ever came to me to divvy out to my students.
So I would be all about disbanding the Department of

(01:07:59):
Education and all of their ridiculous liberal ideology.
Now, does that get rid of schoollunches?
No, that's never come through the Department of Education and
never will. I mean, it's just funny.
And then other funding could easily.
He's not trying to undo the funding, although I mean, our

(01:08:25):
country was. Established for schools to be
local. That's why we have boards of
education. So I think the bureaucracy of
school systems have ruined education.
So, yeah, get rid of the unions,get rid of the Department of
Education. Yeah.
Because they say they're they'restudent centered and care about
student outcomes, but they're very adult centered, Yeah.

(01:08:51):
Is there anything else you wanted to say about schooling
before we? Move on.
I don't like so we talked about about it.
Yeah, OK. I've think so.
Are you? Just are you a marathoner or do
you also do the triathlons? Either once.
Yeah. So crazy.
I. Did not run at.

(01:09:11):
All until I was in my mid 40s and I made a New Year's
resolution that I was going to run 1000 miles in a year.
Wow. So in I think yes, in 2009,
which averages 20 miles a week, which seems like a lot, but it

(01:09:33):
in the grand scheme of things, it wasn't that much.
But I did like in this on December 18th, I remember that
because that's my birthday, I went over to Evans Hills
Riverfront and finished my one thousandth mile for 2009.
And so then the year after that I decided to train for 1/2

(01:09:54):
marathon because my daughter wasgoing to run a marathon.
And then that's just evolved over time.
And what we're currently trying to do is not race, but complete
a marathon in every state. We started that in 2023.
But also it wasn't mine. I don't know.

(01:10:15):
I did an Iron Man I had done my first triathlon was 1/2 Iron Man
in Augusta and I would not recommend anybody do their first
triathlon as a half Iron Man because anyway and could you
explain real quick for no one doesn't know what.

(01:10:36):
What a triathlon is and what an Iron Man is.
Yeah. So a triathlon is putting
together the. Disciplines of swimming, biking
and running. I would say biking is my
strength because I grew up with all the boys in my neighborhood
biking like we were on one wheelmore than we were on two wheels.
Like I saw a commercial where a boy was sitting on his

(01:10:59):
handlebars backwards riding his bike.
So I to this day can get on a bike and ride it back with if it
has handlebars. Now if it's a 10 speed, don't
really try that so, but I actually love riding a bike, so
biking wasn't going to be an issue.
I just had to get the miles in right.
And then swimming, I swam for fun, but I was never on the swim

(01:11:21):
team and didn't have technique. So I had to learn the technique
of swimming and then running. I had already been training to
run. So then you have to practice the
transitions to go from swimming to biking.
Is that for the same lake as a marathon?
A triathlon. OK, so there's a there's a

(01:11:42):
Sprint distance. Which is those vary, but that's
usually has a 5K at the end and maybe a 15 mile bike ride and a
half a mile swim. But I never did one of those.
The half Iron Man that I did first is let's see, I think it's
a 1.2 mile swim and a around 70 mile bike ride and then a half

(01:12:09):
marathon and then and then it's been.
So long like I haven't done a triathlon.
Since 2017 like that's a long time.
Then the full length triathlon. I think it was a 2.4 mile swim,
which I don't sound like very far but.
And do you swim? I used to, but it's because.

(01:12:33):
She's I enjoy it. If you're on a high school swim
team, it's like if you swim. 500meters, like that's a long swim,
right? So 2.4 miles and then you have
112 mile bike ride and then a full marathon.
So so a triathlon. They can vary in distance.
Like there is no set length unless it's a an Ironman

(01:12:53):
distance or 1/2. Ironman distance, those are set
and then the Olympic distance isset as well, which that's that's
a good entryway to I think it's a six 10th swim and 26 mile bike
ride. Yeah, it's a 10K run, so that's
a fun distance. Yeah, today that'd be a good
one. So yeah, but I haven't biked.

(01:13:17):
Since 2017. When I was training, that's the
oddest story when when I was training for my full Iron Man,
my husband and my train partner who was going to do the Iron Man
with me and a friend of ours, wewere all biking.
And my husband and I like, I love biking.
So he'd go with me sometimes because I would just get way out

(01:13:40):
there. Just got I loved it.
And he saw a deer over to the side of the road.
I didn't and it was dark. It was in the morning and I
didn't see it. If I'd seen it, I likely would
have stopped. But he's here, I'm here.
Deers there while sudden his bike.
He's like going in the air and Idon't know why.

(01:14:02):
And then my bike, it's the same deer.
And so I'm going a little bit and I'm going this way.
So he does a full flip, lands onhis pelvis and shatters it and
I'm hard headed. I landed on my my helmet, which
fortunately I had a helmet on itand I just rolled so you could
see like all my abrasions along my right side.

(01:14:25):
So we had a pretty bad bike wreck and we ended up him in the
hospital and made the newspaper actually said I refused
treatment, which isn't true. I just wanted to take care of my
husband. He was the one clearly in pain.
So anyway, I haven't loved biking since that day.
Yeah, sure. Yeah.

(01:14:47):
But. Yeah.
And what's like the like the craziest or most?
Difficult race you've ever done.I mean, definitely the.
Little Iron Man was the. Scariest just because you know,
you get in the Ohio River, whichis kind of I would never ever
get low, high river. That's what I said.

(01:15:07):
And there, there was living the dream.
So it did have a current where you swim most of a big portion
of it downstream. That's good, but it didn't help
a whole lot. Still in the water a long time,
but yeah, once I got through theswim then that was just a fun
day. All because which, you know,
Dean is an expert and all this stuff and he coached me.

(01:15:29):
So I was really over prepared for the day.
So it was actually kind of fun. So you like really enjoyed this
stuff like. Running I see I don't get that
at all. Like I don't enjoy any type of
physical activity and I wish I did like, like my brother and my
my parents and my girlfriend. Like they love working out and

(01:15:52):
and running. Well, not all of them like, but
I've never understood that. Like, I wish I could.
Yeah, I'm not able to get it either.
I mean, even in my early 40s I would.
Go with being with other wives, you know, supporting our
husbands renting that we would tease like unless a dog's
chasing me, I'm not renting. And so it just, it's like
anything else, if you purposefully put it as a

(01:16:17):
priority, it kind of grows on you.
And then I develop that first year I just ran by myself, but
then I developed some of my verybest girlfriends that we run
together and it's really just fun to catch up with them and
you know, know what's on their hearts.
And how can I pray for you today?
And so it's, it's a good connection thing.
That's awesome. So what would you suggest

(01:16:38):
someone who wants to get into? Maybe they're already like a
runner, but they want to get into marathoning or triathlon.
Yeah, we'll hire a coach. No, I'm kidding.
That's next on my list. Yeah.
I would just say especially for guys.
They go out and. Try to run a 5 minute mile but

(01:17:01):
you cannot understand the importance of the long slow run
and just getting out on your feet and run walking like my
first year I didn't do any speedwork or trying to go fast.
Like I literally just put the miles in and see that build your
aerobic endurance. It teaches your skeletal muscle,

(01:17:25):
your skeleton and your muscles to handle the load.
And I don't know. So a lots of long slow miles and
just, you know, start small and maybe increase 10% a week your
mileage. And then once you get up to, I
don't know, consistently being able to run specifically for the

(01:17:46):
marathon. Once you specifically get up to
where you're comfortably running30 miles a week and you're not
getting any niggles or aches or pains, then start thinking about
speed work and building that VO2Max and building that lactate
threshold to perform. It was years into my running.

(01:18:06):
I started running in 2009 and itwasn't until 2019 that I finally
qualified for the Boston Marathon.
Like it was a very long and it wasn't even something I thought
I would be able to do because I didn't grow up as an athlete.
And so just paying attention to the research and building each

(01:18:30):
of those areas separately and finally time qualifying for the
Boston. Of course, I time qualified for
the 2020 Boston Marathon and guess what happened?
Yeah, it was cancelled. It was actually they they didn't
cancel what they said you could run it virtually.
So but then the same no. So then you can defer or

(01:18:53):
transfer. So I qualified in again to run
in 2021 and they had it in the fall instead of on Patriots Day.
So then I decided I need to qualify again.
So I've run it every way you canrun it.
I run it virtually. I've run it in October and I've
run it in April on Patriots Day.So now I'm off that hamster

(01:19:16):
wheel trying to be fast and justenjoying.
That's good. The fitness of it.
Yeah. And.
And you and your husband are coaches now for?
That I this is how. Little I know about right?
I don't even know what question.To ask for that but you just
want to like talk about that Yeah so we started our.

(01:19:38):
Coaching business informally because he had a group of guy
friends that he ran with and they were always looking to him
to design what they were going to do for the week.
And so he would build workouts and they would all run together.
And then just because I was married to him, he was then
designing things for me and my girlfriends to do.

(01:20:01):
And so it kind of started like that, and then he just had other
people. Seeing that success that those
athletes were having informally.And so he just decided to, I
mean, he was really the brains behind the operation at first
because I had a lot to learn. He's been running since 3rd
grade. I had a lot to learn about the

(01:20:23):
sport. But sometimes you can add value
because things that he might notunderstand would be difficult to
understand for an athlete. I completely understand why it's
difficult. And so the way our model works
is if he designs, it's completely customized.
So he'll design like, OK, here'swhat Gunnar did last week,

(01:20:46):
here's what Gunnar didn't do. So based on that and the data
and based on Gunnar's comments, we're now going to design what
he needs to do next week. So it's fully customized for
each athlete and the athletes that show the most improvement
are the athletes who consistently do what's planned.

(01:21:06):
So if I plan the week, he then reviews it, he plans the week, I
then review it. And so we're able to bring two
different perspectives together.And but it's really neat.
We have athletes in Florida and Maine and Washington and
Owensboro all like it's an online program.
And especially with technology like Zoom, we don't use Zoom.

(01:21:29):
We actually have a product that we use, but it's the same
concept. And so we can hop on like, hey,
we're not really understanding this.
Is there a time you can hop on and talk with us?
And but yeah, it's been really fun to get to know people and
pray for people and share their stories and we love it.

(01:21:49):
That's awesome. And if someone was interested
in. Being coached by y'all.
Where could they? Is there like a website they can
visit? Yeah, it's RYR Endurance team.
Dot com all right, and I'll probably put that in the the
description. Too.
Well, that is all I have is there.
Anything else you'd like? To talk about, I don't think so,

(01:22:12):
but I'm really excited to follow.
Your career and if you go into teaching.
Thank you yeah, yeah, I'm. I'm excited to be a teacher.
I've. For a long time I wanted to be a
business man because like I've always wanted to be a teacher as
a kid. But then I figured out they
don't make hardly anything. You know, I guess we'll just go

(01:22:34):
into business. But but lately I've just really
feel the calling to go into teaching.
I just realized that and my mom told me that.
She said. You just can't.
He can't ignore what God's calling you to do just because
of money. And I mean, I teach Sunday
school at my church, and there'snothing I do all week that's
more fulfilling than that. Yeah.

(01:22:55):
So yeah, that's a pretty good sign.
The the thing that was difficult.
My son went into teaching and the thing that was the most
difficult for him and of course he went into math teaching.
What can I say? The thing that was the biggest
transition for him and I probably didn't prepare him for
as well as, you know, he went through Owensboro Public Schools

(01:23:16):
as A gifted student and was surrounded by students who loved
to learn, and the kids in his class loved math.
So it was. Real shocking to.
Him when he first started student teaching the students
who didn't value school whatsoever and so just learning

(01:23:41):
to navigate that yeah and I'm I'm sure I'll have.
Kids like that and and the oh, what's it called?
The the course. I'm taking.
I'll be certified to teach high school, but.
Apparently there's like one extra.
Class you can take to also be able to take middle school.
So I think I'm going to take it just just that I can do that.

(01:24:04):
But I don't know if I would wantto teach middle school because I
feel like the middle schoolers wouldn't care enough.
And I'm sure there are kids who would.
But I feel like in high school you can, you can really tell
who's actually like paying attention and it actually enjoys
the material and 'cause I want to be able to connect to kids

(01:24:28):
and not that I'm. Not going to try to connect.
With the ones who don't enjoy the material, but I mean there's
just said a deeper level you cango with the kids to do and like
in middle school I was able to. Catch them and change their
minds about because when they would come in like even as old

(01:24:51):
as eighth grade, sometimes I would meet them in 6th grade,
sometimes I wouldn't meet them until 8th grade.
But either way, they already have an opinion on whether or
not they were good at or bad at math.
And if they felt like they were bad at math, I mean, I would
just tell them before I said I don't know anything like day
one. I don't know anything about any
one of you. Now, your mom didn't hear the

(01:25:12):
speech because she was in algebra one in 8th grade.
Clearly. Yeah.
Likes math, going to be great atmath, which around me tell you a
story about her. But I would tell them from day
one like some of you may think you're bad at.
Math. But let me tell you.
It's not you, it's your teachers.
And I'm going to fix that this year.

(01:25:34):
And so I would just from the beginning, like try to develop
that you're not lost cause like we're going to love math.
And some of us still didn't likemath when they laughed.
I would like tell you I transformed them all.
But yeah, I'm like. I can do math all right, like up
until Azure 2 probably, but I'venever really enjoyed it.

(01:25:55):
Like it's just I like I I haven't.
Enjoyed it as much as I do like history.
Or science, Yeah, and I didn't enjoy.
History and science, like we need all kinds.
Yeah, so. But I bet you could do math
Yeah, I can do it. Alright.
I just. It's just kind of.

(01:26:16):
For me, the hardest part of anything is just like busy work,
and that's a lot of what math isso quick story about.
It's a very quick story, but. You know, you know, you have a
good mom when even in middle school they are gold.
And I mean, she, she was gold. But I'd be teaching and
sometimes like the material is even almost boring to me.

(01:26:39):
Like there's just some things you just have to learn them.
I was just always look out and there's your mom just smiling
and making eye contact and nodding your hand.
I'm like, she was just boring. Like encourage her.
Like, yeah, I'm sure she was very encouraging to you all
growing up. Yeah.
Yeah. And she's she loves math.

(01:27:00):
She has her degree in math and she's going to be a math
teacher. And then she had me.
She was a stay at home mom, But yeah.
And then whenever I was in school and oh, I can say that
now, back when I was in school. Look at that.
Look how old you're getting. I'd bring home math homework if
I did. Know how to do something.

(01:27:21):
She happy to help. Yeah.
Yeah. So I'll be curious.
You also being raised in a Christian.
Home like a real. Brief version of your testimony.
Oh yeah. Yeah, I can do that.
I've never given it on the podcast, but I can use this so

(01:27:44):
and I'm. I should be more ready to give
my testimony. 'Cause it doesn't have to be,
Paul. It's just thoughts.
Yeah, 'cause I I'm. Getting baptized soon, that's
why I'll have to. Give it then.
Oh good, the microphone. Is not picking that up.
There's a bunch of people. Laughing in the other room, but

(01:28:04):
so my testimony, I grew up in a Christian like you said and up
until about 6th grade. I just like did the Christian
thing and, and I thought I was aChristian and all that.
And then in 5th or 6th grade I decided I wasn't and I just
didn't think it was true. I thought it was just kind of

(01:28:25):
too good to be true. And and now just for personal
context for me. And you can cut this out if you
want to. Like was that before or after
your dad got sick? This.
I mean, I always have trouble remembering when.
He got sick. Yeah, 'cause I, it just always
was kind of there. Like I can remember.

(01:28:45):
You don't remember what grade you were in?
No, I I think I must. Have been in 5th.
Grade when he got sick 'cause hepassed in. 2021.
And he was sick for five years, I think.
So that would have been 2016, which in 2000?

(01:29:06):
16 I would have been. 10 or 11 I've.
Been 9 or 10. So what, what is that like 4th,
4th, 3rd or 4th grade? Yeah.
So yeah, he was already sick at this point.
And I just kind of, that was kind of part of it for me.

(01:29:27):
Like if God's really. This good?
Why doesn't he heal my dad? Why isn't he?
Because my grandma I think had already passed at this point
from cancer. It's like, why didn't he say my
grandma? And, and I just was kind of and
then also, I think the biggest part for me or this I told
myself it was, I don't, I don't really know what's going on, but
was just kind of like all this like Bible stuff with like the

(01:29:49):
miracles and stories. It's just too crazy.
Like stuff like this doesn't really happen.
And so and then around 6th. Grade I was like, very.
Argumentative and I just anyone who's a Christian, I'd love to
like debate them, which I was horrible at because I was in
middle school. I was a bad debater, but and

(01:30:10):
then and then during that year, I.
I was still going to huge. Group because it was fun and we
play capture the flag and and mymom probably made me too but
there was a guy there named Christian Barrett who I actually
have an interview scheduled withthis Wednesday which I'm going
to have to reschedule because I I got a job yesterday and so oh

(01:30:31):
congratulations thank you and soI I'll.
Have to reschedule. His interview because I had it
scheduled for while I'll be working, but he, I thought at
the time, I thought that he had led me to Christ in 6th grade
and I did. I think I really did.
And this is like a theology. Question that I have no idea how
to answer. If I really did believe or not,

(01:30:54):
I feel like I did believe like the facts of it, like that Jesus
and God are real and Christ diedfor my sins on the cross and I
quote UN quote accepted him intomy life.
But I didn't, I didn't put him on the throne of my life like I
would. I still put myself 1st.
And and then for years I was notChristian, but I thought I was.

(01:31:16):
I was kind of like practicing cultural Christianity, as I've
heard it been called before and and I didn't even realize.
This until a few months ago. But but then I mean, I was just
still in my sin and and I was just into the world.

(01:31:39):
And and I was. Angry.
And I mean, I was just totally ajerk and and irrational.
Tony, you weren't mean to that sweet Mama of yours.
I was, yeah. And.
She probably got the worst of itand I just that's normal.
I was just kind of and I and I just have.

(01:32:01):
Outbursts stuff and. And then after my dad died, it
got way worse. And, and after my freshman year,
I my mom sent me to this ranch in Missouri and called
Whetstone, for which your grandparents then had me praying
for you. Oh, thank.
You. I appreciate it.

(01:32:22):
Yeah, they. A lot of people were praying for
me and I mean, I'm so thankful for that and and my mom.
I'm thankful for my mom for sending.
Me because I was really, really hard for her, but she stuck by
it and I'm glad she did. That place totally saved my
life. Just the path that I was going
down and and I didn't become a Christian while I was there, but

(01:32:43):
they really set me straight on alot of things.
And basically, I mean, there's alot of like sweet poetic ish
things that I could say about what's up.
But basically in its most simplest form, they just taught
me how to not be a jerk rather than and they just taught me
that being angry never solves anything.

(01:33:04):
And what's done is kind of like a safe place for you to have an
outburst and get in a fight. They don't encourage anyone to
get in a fight, but it's a safe place to get in a fight without
loads of consequences. Like if you were at school or
something or just in the room. Was it a faith-based camp?
Yes, it was, yeah. And I was there for eight
months. Before graduating program, but
basically like you get in a fight, everyone gets in a fight

(01:33:27):
while they're there and and likenot now drag out this foot.
They don't let it get to that. Point, but yes.
And so, yeah, thankfully, don't let it get to a point.
'Cause I was, I was getting. Ready to lose my fight pretty
badly. But they, I mean, they just kind
of sit you down until you like, see, that does not solve
anything. And they don't even tell you

(01:33:48):
this at first. They wait for you to realize
like this isn't I didn't help anything.
It just made things worse. And that's, that's not all of
it, but also it's it's for disciplinary issues.
And then also people have been through trauma.
And I wouldn't call my dad dyingtrauma for me.
You wouldn't. No, I would say I don't know

(01:34:10):
what is. Considered trauma or not, but I.
Definitely hadn't grieved through it, right.
And at the time I wouldn't have.I don't know about now because
I've learned more about myself and I've learned there are a lot
of things that trigger me now there because of that.
And, but basically the therapistthere, she helped me grieve
through it and, and I'd gone to therapy before, but her therapy

(01:34:32):
was more like tough love when itneeded to be, which is.
What I needed it was. Great and and So what some
really saved my life and. Just sent me down a different.
Path and I was like a way nicer guy, but I still wasn't a
Christian and I've still struggled like my sins and and

(01:34:52):
then Fast forward probably. Two years later.
February of last year, that 2024and I was like really deep in my
sin and I don't want to get liketoo graphic or anything but and
and I just there's a whole saying.
But there's something my. Dad used to say, and I don't

(01:35:15):
know who he was quoting, it's probably Tim Keller, who the
quote is something like sin willtake you farther than you want
to go longer than you want to stay something else, something
like that cost you more, cost you more than we pay.
Exactly. And it that's what happened to
me that night. And and then that same night, I
was just in my car. I was driving around and I was

(01:35:35):
just, I felt horrible and, and it was like years of no longer
feeling any guilt or conscious about my sin just kind of caught
up with me and I was in a reallybad spot.
And so I went to my our pasture there and this is where.
I lived in. Evansville or Newburgh, our

(01:35:58):
pasture there and I just confesseverything to them for
everything I'd been doing for years.
And and on that night I prayed for God or I prayed that Jesus
God would really take control ofmy life instead of me.
And at the time it was kind of like, I want you back on the
throne of my life. But then looking back, I

(01:36:19):
realized that he never was. And really that's when I became
a Christian without even knowingit.
And my life changed again from then and I still was like on the
outside. I was the same to people who
didn't know me as well as my family, but also that on the
inside I really changed instead of because like Whetstone taught

(01:36:42):
me how to not let my anger out, but I still.
Had all that. And I and I worked through it.
I wasn't just like shoving it down.
But now I'm I'm just way better with not even getting angry.
In the 1st place and then. And then I just live in a life
that's Christ centered, or at least I try to.
I still have plenty of strugglesand I'm still trying to overdo.

(01:37:03):
You mean you're not perfect? No.
OK, that's good. Because you're not breaking
news. But yeah, I'm still.
To this day, trying to quit the sins that I was struggling with
before and but I'm doing a lot better now, so I'm really
thankful that and you know, the beauty is you don't have to go

(01:37:23):
into the. Graphic detail of any sin.
Because once you confess it, guess what?
He remember. He remembers no more.
Yeah. Yeah, that's my testimony.
That's awesome. And so you're.
Being you're being baptized, I am.
On the 15th June. 15th Father's Day.
And is that happening at a church?

(01:37:46):
Yeah, pleasant. Valley.
Pleasant Valley, yeah. Awesome.
Well, congratulations for that. Thank you.
Yeah, all. Right, well, I didn't mean to
put. You on the spot.
But no, I don't mind at all. Yeah.
All right. All right, so unless there's
anything else, I will pray us out.
Yeah. Dear God, thank you for.
This opportunity to talk with Miss.

(01:38:08):
Roberts and I, I pray that you will bless her and her husband,
her family and their business and the the work that they're
doing in your Kingdom, God and Ipray that they will continue to
help others make their body a temple suitable for you.
And I pray that you will continue to help them be a light

(01:38:32):
and to share the gospel with others.
And God, I prayed. I just give this podcast up to
you. I surrender it to you.
Do whatever you want with it. I pray that you will use it to
be a light, yes, to be a light to others.
I pray that people will be touched by this and then they
will hear you in this podcast and and not me or or my guests

(01:38:59):
and God, I pray that which. Have a good day.
And that the weather stays nice.And then Christ name I pray.
Amen. Amen.
Amen. Thank you.
So are you?

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