November 9, 2025 • 22 mins
Sometimes things get too stressful here at The Jiffy, a podcast about upstate New York that really takes you places.
And when this happens, I lace up my hiking boots and guide you on a restful Sleep Hike, where I do the hiking, while you do the sleeping.
I've been told that my methods could use some training, so in this episode we visit Anna Yang and Alex Artymiak, the co-founders of Empty Space.
Empty Space is a sound studio in Old Chatham, New York, with ancient singing bowls, gongs, sansulas, harps, and more, and in this episode, we learn how we can perhaps tune out the noise by listening to the sounds within.
You can find Anna and Alex at @emptyspace.sound.
Some previous Sleep Hike episodes:
A Sleep Hike Through Mud Creek
"The Jiffy Audio Newsletter Podcast" is an audio documentary zine – the official podcast of The Jiffy – exploring the odd histories, cozy mysteries, and surprising characters of upstate New York. Each episode is a small adventure, told with curiosity, humor, and the occasional text message from a stranger.
New episodes drop every other week. Subscribe, share, and take the scenic route with us.
Follow James on Instagram: @jamescave
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:02):
Hello and welcome to the Jiffy, a podcast about
upstate New York that reallytakes you places and I don't
know about you, but I think itmight be time.
Time for one of our relaxingsleep hikes.
Sleep hike.
Now if you've never listened toone of my patent pending sleep
hike episodes, or uh maybe neverbeen on a sleep hike with us
(00:24):
before.
Well, this is when I I guessthey really come around when it
feels like things are gettingpretty stressful out there.
I guess m most of the time theytend to come around election
day, uh, but also when it justfeels like things are getting
too much.
And so I feel like maybe it'stime to get back in touch with
nature, go take a littlerelaxing stroll.
But sometimes you may not havethe time to go out in the woods,
(00:47):
or maybe you live in a placewhere there are no woods.
Maybe you just don't like thewoods.
The point about sleep hiking isthat you don't have to do any
hiking.
If you're sleeping while I dothe hiking, and hopefully you'll
never hear the end of thisepisode because you'll be
asleep.
(01:08):
Now, previously, we've takensleep hikes through Illinois
Creek Garden as well as MudCreek during the mud season.
It's really beautiful.
But today I want to do somethinga little differently.
It's been brought to myattention that maybe my sleep
hikes could use some improvementon both the sleepy side and the
relaxing side of things.
(01:28):
So I thought it'd be interestingto go and talk to some experts
that I recently learned about.
Maybe they can teach us aboutthe craft of meditation.
And because this is anaudio-only podcast, uh
specifically looking atmeditating through sound.
Okay, we're gonna go head out toOld Chatham and Sleep Hike to an
empty space.
(01:48):
Alright, we just got here.
Pulled in him in the parkinglot, and uh Old Chatham.
It's beautiful and a little uhrainy and uh oh there's a
commemorative bench to the actorWalton Goggins.
I always love seeing those.
Here we are, empty space.
Okay, let's open the door.
Let's say hi.
Oh hi.
(02:09):
Hi, Alex Anna?
Oh James.
Empty Space is uh a sound studiothat offers sound meditation,
yoga, and breathwork classes.
It's co-founded by Anna Yang, amusician and trained sound
meditation guide, and AlexArtimiak.
Alex has guided meditations forreaders of such publications as
Goop in the New York Times.
Uh who's a yoga breathworkteacher and a sound facilitator
(02:31):
as well.
And so clearly uh these are twoexperts who could help improve
our sleep hype here on thepodcast.
What do I need to do to put mewhere you where I need to be?
Okay.
Uh I'm taking off my buttons.
And so I'm about to take us intoone of their uh guided sound
meditations.
Hopefully, we'll come out on theother side of this feeling
(02:55):
really rested and hopefully morein charge of ourselves.
This is my first time doingsomething like this.
So what am I in for?
What can what can I expect?
SPEAKER_01 (03:06):
So, first we'll be starting off with a little bit
of breath work to help drop youin.
Uh, we use a more active breathtechnique, and that stimulates
your nervous system.
You get into uh the sympathetic,which is more fight or flight,
so it raises your your nervoussystem, it stimulates it,
excites it.
So let's start by placing onehand on the belly, one hand on
the chest, and take three orfour deep, deep breaths.
(03:30):
Let's take an inhale to thebelly, an inhale into the chest,
and then exhale, let it go.
Very nice.
And then we'll do a breath hold,which will help to calm the
nervous system.
So we do this because it helpsto create almost like a larger
gap of spectrum where sometimesit's hard to let go of something
(03:50):
when you're holding onto itunconsciously.
So this is almost like a way oftensing your nervous system so
that when you let go you cancompletely relax and drop in.
And out.
In, up, out.
Drum is is a very ancestralinstrument, right?
(04:11):
Drums have been used for peoplegoing to war, they're used for
dance, and the reason being isthey say that the drum is like
the heartbeat of the orchestra.
There's something that as soonas the drum hits, there's a
deeper resonance.
You may have been feeling it inyour actual body.
Um, and that you can you canactually entrain the heartbeat
using the drum.
(04:32):
Into the chest.
Sip in a little bit more.
Hold your breath at the top.
And so when you pick up the drumbeat, the heart rate starts to
go a little faster.
That's gonna put you deeper intoa sympathetic nervous system,
push you into an excited state.
Maybe feel a little bit of gooddiscomfort, a little bit of
(04:54):
tension, that then they can havethat contrast of a deeper state
of release and relaxation.
And let go.
SPEAKER_02 (05:08):
Those are our very big collections of antique same
bowls.
They're all collectedindividually from, you know,
Himalayan mountains.
And each bowl's probably aroundanywhere between 500 to a
thousand years old.
SPEAKER_01 (05:34):
The bowls were used because meditation and and
frequency was always hand inhand.
We can play the sounds, and whenyou use that sensitivity of
listening, it really helps tocheck in with your thoughts.
Our teacher always says there'stwo types of sounds.
There are the ones that you canhear, and then there's the
(05:55):
inaudible ones.
And those inaudible sounds are,of course, your thoughts, right?
And so creating this reallydistinct sound on the outside
world gives your awareness aplace to go.
And so often through our modernday, we're being stimulated by
the things we hear, the news,the traffic, arguments we have
with loved ones.
And so that's constantly playinginto our nervous system, playing
(06:19):
into our consciousness.
And these sounds and theharmonics and the overtones that
they emit help to bring you backinto a state of peace, into a
state of harmony withinyourself.
When it comes to listening tothe sounds, just think of it as
(06:41):
a way of really experiencingsound, not just through your
ears, but trying to feel thevibrations within yourself, in
your body.
You know, sound travels muchfaster and stronger through
liquid.
And so see if you can connect tothat.
The liquid that holds the brainin the heart tissue of the
skull.
Just try to feel the vibrationsup there, feel the vibrations
(07:02):
moving through your blood,moving through your muscle
tissue.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (07:06):
Anyway, so those are the walls.
It's really hard to put like abig set together like this, um,
because you kind of need to dothe math correctly, and those
are all very unique, one of akind.
There's there kind of like hasits own spirit.
So um we have a teacher thatgoes to Nepal to collect all
(07:30):
those symbols, and he'll bringback tens, thousands of balls,
and you know, um, and then we'llneed to just pick out the one
that harmonize each other themost.
SPEAKER_01 (07:43):
The reason why they're they have to be selected
one by one is because they aretuned to a very specific
frequency.
And so the way that they'regoing to play together, play
with each other will change ifthe frequency is just a little
off.
So even though they are closelyrelated to certain notes on a
scale, uh we have to create aharmony within the bull set.
(08:04):
And so that's why they'rethey're selected one by one.
SPEAKER_00 (08:07):
Yeah, it's interesting.
Would it be possible to hear aversion of it where it's not
(08:29):
really resonating and then tocompare it with one where it all
sort of connects?
SPEAKER_01 (08:33):
We can, it'll it won't be uh this will be a
little sharp.
Um so we have a bowl that is anF sharp, and that's a seven
fifty-two.
So why don't you play play the Cfive and then the G five?
(09:00):
And then do it again.
Yeah, there's a little bit ofbeating towards that sound,
(09:23):
right?
And then undo the C and E.
So you can analyze it from justlike a from an analytical
technical place, but then alsohow does it make you feel when
you hear the E?
(09:46):
This pairing versus the firstpairing.
It's not that it does it soundsbad.
There's just a little bit it's alittle off-putting, right?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (10:12):
The singing balls is a very big crucial part of the
sound meditation, and thenbehind me are the gons, which
you know the history of istraced back to a thousand years
ago.
Well, I'm from Asia and Gon is avery uh it's a meditation
(10:32):
instrument that people use in,you know, in Tibet in Buddhism.
And this is Gon is theinstrument that emits the most
overtones.
SPEAKER_01 (10:49):
What Anna's uh describing is is called the
fundamental.
When we first strike a bowl,that first initial hit is called
strike.
It plays off the what you'llhear when we strike it is you'll
hear the fundamental.
That's gonna be the basiest, thelowest tone.
And then if you listen closely,you'll start to hear rising
tones above that.
And each of those tones, thiscomes back to the beauty of art
(11:12):
and math, is it sounds pleasant,but from a mathematical
standpoint, what you're hearingis a multiple off of that
fundamental.
So you're hearing maybe thefundamental just for the sake of
easy math resonates at 100hertz, and then the second
overtone or this is the secondharmonic will be 200 hertz, the
third will be 300 hertz, 400hertz, 500 hertz, 600, and so
(11:35):
on.
And so when you're listening tothe sound meditation, when
you're actually going throughthe experience, we ask you not
just to listen to thefundamental tone, which is
what's going to strike you theloudest, but listen very
closely, listen for thoseovertones, listen for those
harmonics.
And what that will do is it willreally captivate your mind and
(11:56):
captivate your awareness.
You'll go into a state of deeperlistening.
So that's what we mean when wesay listen judiciously.
Listen for those rising tones,listen for the relationships,
the beating, the harmony inbetween the tones.
SPEAKER_02 (12:16):
We play, we observe people, and um, every group is
different.
And some people, a lot of peoplemay be their first timer, they
have a really hard time, youknow, dropping in or having a
hard time.
Or they're you can tell thatthey're going through something.
A lot of their when we play thegong or play the single ball,
there might be certain memoriesthat come up for them.
(12:38):
Some are pleasant, some are not.
Um, so we kind of just need touh read the room, you know, read
every single one.
And there's also like a verycollective energy that you can
feel.
And and then also again, likeit's a it's a feeling that I
can't really describe to pickwhat instrument next, because at
(13:01):
the same time I don't want tohave my personal experience to
project on other people.
So I tend to not rationalize toomuch and like you know, oh, I'm
projecting that this person isgoing through a hard time, or
maybe this person is just, youknow.
(13:26):
I was living in Long Island withmy two girls, and um, I was
doing more entrepreneur tenurestuff.
I was in multiple industriesbefore, and you know, I've
experienced burnout and stress,and um I have a history of like
(13:46):
depression and anxiety uh for avery long time, ever since like
high school-ish.
And then it starts to becomereally, really um affecting my
life after I have kids.
I had like postpartumdepression, and then I started
to talk to therapists,traditional talking therapists.
And I'm not the kind of personthat is very much uh that I
(14:09):
would do a lot of research on myown.
So I read a lot of psychologybooks.
I understand my condition and Iwould talk to a therapist and I
would, you know, like basicallytake their work.
And so I would talk to them andI would analyze it and then they
were like, why you're here.
Or sometimes I'll tell us astory and my and then I can put
(14:31):
a therapist to sleep.
They're like, you know, yourvoice is so calm, you should go
work for calm.
I was like, I was like in themiddle of telling him tragic
like car accident my best friendhad and then passed away and he
like was falling asleep on me.
Anyway, so I tried thetraditional therapist and it
wasn't working on me, so um itwas like a very random day that
(14:55):
you know I got introduced tothis type of work and my
teacher, and um it kind ofchanged my life uh in some
sense.
So this is Mona Lena thatusually I place this on um one
of the participants' bodybecause the back is made of
(15:19):
wood.
So when I play it, it reallyjust uh resonates a lot, and
then like you can actually feelthe vibration of the sound
through the wood.
Um and I would play this basedon how I play it, it's really
(15:40):
based on, you know, also theenergy of the room.
Um sometimes a little too uhoutplay it very intensely um for
people to release certain thingsand sometimes a little sing when
I play it and um more softlygentle because it's it's a very
like i i i it looks simple, butit can really create a different
(16:02):
dynamic on how you play it.
(16:49):
I how you see it have a musicbackground.
I've played harp um ever sincewhen I was little.
So have been very musical and Ikind of want to know what the
hell are all those instrumentsare.
So I went to the training andyou know, my purpose, my
intention was to play for myfriends.
(17:10):
Um host, you know, littlesession with my friends, and
that's usually our way to hangout.
We we like to do very meaningfulstuff and conversations and do
like a wellness hang hangout.
So so yeah, uh after I went tothe training I met Alex and you
(17:30):
know, we just fell in love andthen I I decided to move to
upstate uh before the trainingbecause Long Island that
environment is way too toxic forme uh for the kids too.
Uh I live in a neighborhoodwhere everyone kind of judge you
by what you wear, what youdrive.
(17:52):
So I was never the type ofperson that cared that much, but
but an Evel really needs like Ifell you know into it because it
it's just suck when people treatyou differently when you when
they see you driving differentcars.
And I uh I just want my kids tobe raised in an environment
(18:16):
where you know more wholesome,more connect with nature.
We wanted to open up a studioeventually, um, I think in the
beginning of this year.
So we wanted to we'rebrainstorming the name on a
drive to a ski trip.
SPEAKER_01 (18:33):
And we thought, you know, we wanted it to be
something about sound, somethingabout resonance, something about
vibration.
And then we were thinking, youknow, the first sound is
silence.
That's one of the keynotes thatwe learn.
The first sound is silence.
What is it that we're trying toachieve?
Where is it we're trying to go?
What is the place of potential?
(18:55):
And that really is the emptyspace.
It's I I've talked to people,and for us too, as we just say
that name, the empty space, itkind of elicits um a place of of
possibility, right?
And so it's a place of lettinggo, it's a place where you can
(19:15):
whatever you are is is perfectlywelcome.
SPEAKER_02 (19:18):
It's a place where you can go and and have an
experience and yeah, and thereis no judgment, there's no any
preconceived, it's just like avery uh safe, blank space for
you to be in.
SPEAKER_00 (19:33):
So in my sleep hiking practice, uh do you have
any tips for me as I guide folksalong the wandering trails on my
sleep hiking experiences?
SPEAKER_01 (19:45):
Um I think leave a lot of good space for silence.
SPEAKER_02 (19:50):
Oh, silence is golden.
There is Alex's famous saying isNo.
Well, I think it's so truethough, but um whatever that you
say, so silence is golden,silence is the first thing.
Whatever you say.
SPEAKER_01 (20:05):
Silent if if silence is golden, then when you say
something, just be sure thatit's worthy breaking the
silence.
It just means be intentionalwith your words and and also
know I think know that put a lotof um not not to put pressure,
but put a lot of um heart intothe things that you say because
(20:29):
our voice is is a magicalinstrument as well.
And what we're saying and howwe're feeling when we're saying
it also has a really big impact.
And so when you're guidingthrough people, you're guiding
people through these sleephikes, um, just know that
partially what they're gettingis coming from the the content
of what you're saying, and alarge portion of it comes from
(20:49):
the context of of where you'recoming from, and that's gonna
that's probably gonna have abigger impact on on a
subconscious level than youmight realize.
SPEAKER_02 (20:58):
And I think that now this is like our society is
really scared of being silent.
SPEAKER_00 (21:06):
Well, it kind of sounds like their advice to me
is that I should maybe talk lessas a podcast host.
I'm not sure if that's advice orfeedback.
I'm gonna have to think aboutthat for a little bit.
Um but if you're still awake andyou've made it all the way to
the end, I want to thank you forhanging in there.
I'd love to know what you think,as always.
Uh you can send me a messageusing the link in the show
notes, or you can rhythm me onInstagram, I'm at JamesCave.
(21:29):
And if you'd like to learn moreabout Anna and Alex over at
empty space, uh you can findthem on Instagram at
emptyspace.sound.
They're also hosting publicsessions at PS21's
geothermically heated black boxtheater in Ghent as well.
And that'll do it for thisepisode of the Jiffy podcast, a
sleep hike to an empty space.
I'm gonna stop talking now.
Until next time, I'll see youover on the Instagram feed.
SPEAKER_01 (21:51):
Start to bring movement back to your fingers
and toes.
Uh and your knees when you'reready, sliding your heels in.
Then come back and join us in aseat of post.
Hello and welcome to the Jiffy, a podcast about
upstate New York that reallytakes you places and I don't
know about you, but I think itmight be time.
Time for one of our relaxingsleep hikes.
Sleep hike.
Now if you've never listened toone of my patent pending sleep
hike episodes, or uh maybe neverbeen on a sleep hike with us
(00:24):
before.
Well, this is when I I guessthey really come around when it
feels like things are gettingpretty stressful out there.
I guess m most of the time theytend to come around election
day, uh, but also when it justfeels like things are getting
too much.
And so I feel like maybe it'stime to get back in touch with
nature, go take a littlerelaxing stroll.
But sometimes you may not havethe time to go out in the woods,
(00:47):
or maybe you live in a placewhere there are no woods.
Maybe you just don't like thewoods.
The point about sleep hiking isthat you don't have to do any
hiking.
If you're sleeping while I dothe hiking, and hopefully you'll
never hear the end of thisepisode because you'll be
asleep.
(01:08):
Now, previously, we've takensleep hikes through Illinois
Creek Garden as well as MudCreek during the mud season.
It's really beautiful.
But today I want to do somethinga little differently.
It's been brought to myattention that maybe my sleep
hikes could use some improvementon both the sleepy side and the
relaxing side of things.
(01:28):
So I thought it'd be interestingto go and talk to some experts
that I recently learned about.
Maybe they can teach us aboutthe craft of meditation.
And because this is anaudio-only podcast, uh
specifically looking atmeditating through sound.
Okay, we're gonna go head out toOld Chatham and Sleep Hike to an
empty space.
(01:48):
Alright, we just got here.
Pulled in him in the parkinglot, and uh Old Chatham.
It's beautiful and a little uhrainy and uh oh there's a
commemorative bench to the actorWalton Goggins.
I always love seeing those.
Here we are, empty space.
Okay, let's open the door.
Let's say hi.
Oh hi.
(02:09):
Hi, Alex Anna?
Oh James.
Empty Space is uh a sound studiothat offers sound meditation,
yoga, and breathwork classes.
It's co-founded by Anna Yang, amusician and trained sound
meditation guide, and AlexArtimiak.
Alex has guided meditations forreaders of such publications as
Goop in the New York Times.
Uh who's a yoga breathworkteacher and a sound facilitator
(02:31):
as well.
And so clearly uh these are twoexperts who could help improve
our sleep hype here on thepodcast.
What do I need to do to put mewhere you where I need to be?
Okay.
Uh I'm taking off my buttons.
And so I'm about to take us intoone of their uh guided sound
meditations.
Hopefully, we'll come out on theother side of this feeling
(02:55):
really rested and hopefully morein charge of ourselves.
This is my first time doingsomething like this.
So what am I in for?
What can what can I expect?
SPEAKER_01 (03:06):
So, first we'll be starting off with a little bit
of breath work to help drop youin.
Uh, we use a more active breathtechnique, and that stimulates
your nervous system.
You get into uh the sympathetic,which is more fight or flight,
so it raises your your nervoussystem, it stimulates it,
excites it.
So let's start by placing onehand on the belly, one hand on
the chest, and take three orfour deep, deep breaths.
(03:30):
Let's take an inhale to thebelly, an inhale into the chest,
and then exhale, let it go.
Very nice.
And then we'll do a breath hold,which will help to calm the
nervous system.
So we do this because it helpsto create almost like a larger
gap of spectrum where sometimesit's hard to let go of something
(03:50):
when you're holding onto itunconsciously.
So this is almost like a way oftensing your nervous system so
that when you let go you cancompletely relax and drop in.
And out.
In, up, out.
Drum is is a very ancestralinstrument, right?
(04:11):
Drums have been used for peoplegoing to war, they're used for
dance, and the reason being isthey say that the drum is like
the heartbeat of the orchestra.
There's something that as soonas the drum hits, there's a
deeper resonance.
You may have been feeling it inyour actual body.
Um, and that you can you canactually entrain the heartbeat
using the drum.
(04:32):
Into the chest.
Sip in a little bit more.
Hold your breath at the top.
And so when you pick up the drumbeat, the heart rate starts to
go a little faster.
That's gonna put you deeper intoa sympathetic nervous system,
push you into an excited state.
Maybe feel a little bit of gooddiscomfort, a little bit of
(04:54):
tension, that then they can havethat contrast of a deeper state
of release and relaxation.
And let go.
SPEAKER_02 (05:08):
Those are our very big collections of antique same
bowls.
They're all collectedindividually from, you know,
Himalayan mountains.
And each bowl's probably aroundanywhere between 500 to a
thousand years old.
SPEAKER_01 (05:34):
The bowls were used because meditation and and
frequency was always hand inhand.
We can play the sounds, and whenyou use that sensitivity of
listening, it really helps tocheck in with your thoughts.
Our teacher always says there'stwo types of sounds.
There are the ones that you canhear, and then there's the
(05:55):
inaudible ones.
And those inaudible sounds are,of course, your thoughts, right?
And so creating this reallydistinct sound on the outside
world gives your awareness aplace to go.
And so often through our modernday, we're being stimulated by
the things we hear, the news,the traffic, arguments we have
with loved ones.
And so that's constantly playinginto our nervous system, playing
(06:19):
into our consciousness.
And these sounds and theharmonics and the overtones that
they emit help to bring you backinto a state of peace, into a
state of harmony withinyourself.
When it comes to listening tothe sounds, just think of it as
(06:41):
a way of really experiencingsound, not just through your
ears, but trying to feel thevibrations within yourself, in
your body.
You know, sound travels muchfaster and stronger through
liquid.
And so see if you can connect tothat.
The liquid that holds the brainin the heart tissue of the
skull.
Just try to feel the vibrationsup there, feel the vibrations
(07:02):
moving through your blood,moving through your muscle
tissue.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (07:06):
Anyway, so those are the walls.
It's really hard to put like abig set together like this, um,
because you kind of need to dothe math correctly, and those
are all very unique, one of akind.
There's there kind of like hasits own spirit.
So um we have a teacher thatgoes to Nepal to collect all
(07:30):
those symbols, and he'll bringback tens, thousands of balls,
and you know, um, and then we'llneed to just pick out the one
that harmonize each other themost.
SPEAKER_01 (07:43):
The reason why they're they have to be selected
one by one is because they aretuned to a very specific
frequency.
And so the way that they'regoing to play together, play
with each other will change ifthe frequency is just a little
off.
So even though they are closelyrelated to certain notes on a
scale, uh we have to create aharmony within the bull set.
(08:04):
And so that's why they'rethey're selected one by one.
SPEAKER_00 (08:07):
Yeah, it's interesting.
Would it be possible to hear aversion of it where it's not
(08:29):
really resonating and then tocompare it with one where it all
sort of connects?
SPEAKER_01 (08:33):
We can, it'll it won't be uh this will be a
little sharp.
Um so we have a bowl that is anF sharp, and that's a seven
fifty-two.
So why don't you play play the Cfive and then the G five?
(09:00):
And then do it again.
Yeah, there's a little bit ofbeating towards that sound,
(09:23):
right?
And then undo the C and E.
So you can analyze it from justlike a from an analytical
technical place, but then alsohow does it make you feel when
you hear the E?
(09:46):
This pairing versus the firstpairing.
It's not that it does it soundsbad.
There's just a little bit it's alittle off-putting, right?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (10:12):
The singing balls is a very big crucial part of the
sound meditation, and thenbehind me are the gons, which
you know the history of istraced back to a thousand years
ago.
Well, I'm from Asia and Gon is avery uh it's a meditation
(10:32):
instrument that people use in,you know, in Tibet in Buddhism.
And this is Gon is theinstrument that emits the most
overtones.
SPEAKER_01 (10:49):
What Anna's uh describing is is called the
fundamental.
When we first strike a bowl,that first initial hit is called
strike.
It plays off the what you'llhear when we strike it is you'll
hear the fundamental.
That's gonna be the basiest, thelowest tone.
And then if you listen closely,you'll start to hear rising
tones above that.
And each of those tones, thiscomes back to the beauty of art
(11:12):
and math, is it sounds pleasant,but from a mathematical
standpoint, what you're hearingis a multiple off of that
fundamental.
So you're hearing maybe thefundamental just for the sake of
easy math resonates at 100hertz, and then the second
overtone or this is the secondharmonic will be 200 hertz, the
third will be 300 hertz, 400hertz, 500 hertz, 600, and so
(11:35):
on.
And so when you're listening tothe sound meditation, when
you're actually going throughthe experience, we ask you not
just to listen to thefundamental tone, which is
what's going to strike you theloudest, but listen very
closely, listen for thoseovertones, listen for those
harmonics.
And what that will do is it willreally captivate your mind and
(11:56):
captivate your awareness.
You'll go into a state of deeperlistening.
So that's what we mean when wesay listen judiciously.
Listen for those rising tones,listen for the relationships,
the beating, the harmony inbetween the tones.
SPEAKER_02 (12:16):
We play, we observe people, and um, every group is
different.
And some people, a lot of peoplemay be their first timer, they
have a really hard time, youknow, dropping in or having a
hard time.
Or they're you can tell thatthey're going through something.
A lot of their when we play thegong or play the single ball,
there might be certain memoriesthat come up for them.
(12:38):
Some are pleasant, some are not.
Um, so we kind of just need touh read the room, you know, read
every single one.
And there's also like a verycollective energy that you can
feel.
And and then also again, likeit's a it's a feeling that I
can't really describe to pickwhat instrument next, because at
(13:01):
the same time I don't want tohave my personal experience to
project on other people.
So I tend to not rationalize toomuch and like you know, oh, I'm
projecting that this person isgoing through a hard time, or
maybe this person is just, youknow.
(13:26):
I was living in Long Island withmy two girls, and um, I was
doing more entrepreneur tenurestuff.
I was in multiple industriesbefore, and you know, I've
experienced burnout and stress,and um I have a history of like
(13:46):
depression and anxiety uh for avery long time, ever since like
high school-ish.
And then it starts to becomereally, really um affecting my
life after I have kids.
I had like postpartumdepression, and then I started
to talk to therapists,traditional talking therapists.
And I'm not the kind of personthat is very much uh that I
(14:09):
would do a lot of research on myown.
So I read a lot of psychologybooks.
I understand my condition and Iwould talk to a therapist and I
would, you know, like basicallytake their work.
And so I would talk to them andI would analyze it and then they
were like, why you're here.
Or sometimes I'll tell us astory and my and then I can put
(14:31):
a therapist to sleep.
They're like, you know, yourvoice is so calm, you should go
work for calm.
I was like, I was like in themiddle of telling him tragic
like car accident my best friendhad and then passed away and he
like was falling asleep on me.
Anyway, so I tried thetraditional therapist and it
wasn't working on me, so um itwas like a very random day that
(14:55):
you know I got introduced tothis type of work and my
teacher, and um it kind ofchanged my life uh in some
sense.
So this is Mona Lena thatusually I place this on um one
of the participants' bodybecause the back is made of
(15:19):
wood.
So when I play it, it reallyjust uh resonates a lot, and
then like you can actually feelthe vibration of the sound
through the wood.
Um and I would play this basedon how I play it, it's really
(15:40):
based on, you know, also theenergy of the room.
Um sometimes a little too uhoutplay it very intensely um for
people to release certain thingsand sometimes a little sing when
I play it and um more softlygentle because it's it's a very
like i i i it looks simple, butit can really create a different
(16:02):
dynamic on how you play it.
(16:49):
I how you see it have a musicbackground.
I've played harp um ever sincewhen I was little.
So have been very musical and Ikind of want to know what the
hell are all those instrumentsare.
So I went to the training andyou know, my purpose, my
intention was to play for myfriends.
(17:10):
Um host, you know, littlesession with my friends, and
that's usually our way to hangout.
We we like to do very meaningfulstuff and conversations and do
like a wellness hang hangout.
So so yeah, uh after I went tothe training I met Alex and you
(17:30):
know, we just fell in love andthen I I decided to move to
upstate uh before the trainingbecause Long Island that
environment is way too toxic forme uh for the kids too.
Uh I live in a neighborhoodwhere everyone kind of judge you
by what you wear, what youdrive.
(17:52):
So I was never the type ofperson that cared that much, but
but an Evel really needs like Ifell you know into it because it
it's just suck when people treatyou differently when you when
they see you driving differentcars.
And I uh I just want my kids tobe raised in an environment
(18:16):
where you know more wholesome,more connect with nature.
We wanted to open up a studioeventually, um, I think in the
beginning of this year.
So we wanted to we'rebrainstorming the name on a
drive to a ski trip.
SPEAKER_01 (18:33):
And we thought, you know, we wanted it to be
something about sound, somethingabout resonance, something about
vibration.
And then we were thinking, youknow, the first sound is
silence.
That's one of the keynotes thatwe learn.
The first sound is silence.
What is it that we're trying toachieve?
Where is it we're trying to go?
What is the place of potential?
(18:55):
And that really is the emptyspace.
It's I I've talked to people,and for us too, as we just say
that name, the empty space, itkind of elicits um a place of of
possibility, right?
And so it's a place of lettinggo, it's a place where you can
(19:15):
whatever you are is is perfectlywelcome.
SPEAKER_02 (19:18):
It's a place where you can go and and have an
experience and yeah, and thereis no judgment, there's no any
preconceived, it's just like avery uh safe, blank space for
you to be in.
SPEAKER_00 (19:33):
So in my sleep hiking practice, uh do you have
any tips for me as I guide folksalong the wandering trails on my
sleep hiking experiences?
SPEAKER_01 (19:45):
Um I think leave a lot of good space for silence.
SPEAKER_02 (19:50):
Oh, silence is golden.
There is Alex's famous saying isNo.
Well, I think it's so truethough, but um whatever that you
say, so silence is golden,silence is the first thing.
Whatever you say.
SPEAKER_01 (20:05):
Silent if if silence is golden, then when you say
something, just be sure thatit's worthy breaking the
silence.
It just means be intentionalwith your words and and also
know I think know that put a lotof um not not to put pressure,
but put a lot of um heart intothe things that you say because
(20:29):
our voice is is a magicalinstrument as well.
And what we're saying and howwe're feeling when we're saying
it also has a really big impact.
And so when you're guidingthrough people, you're guiding
people through these sleephikes, um, just know that
partially what they're gettingis coming from the the content
of what you're saying, and alarge portion of it comes from
(20:49):
the context of of where you'recoming from, and that's gonna
that's probably gonna have abigger impact on on a
subconscious level than youmight realize.
SPEAKER_02 (20:58):
And I think that now this is like our society is
really scared of being silent.
SPEAKER_00 (21:06):
Well, it kind of sounds like their advice to me
is that I should maybe talk lessas a podcast host.
I'm not sure if that's advice orfeedback.
I'm gonna have to think aboutthat for a little bit.
Um but if you're still awake andyou've made it all the way to
the end, I want to thank you forhanging in there.
I'd love to know what you think,as always.
Uh you can send me a messageusing the link in the show
notes, or you can rhythm me onInstagram, I'm at JamesCave.
(21:29):
And if you'd like to learn moreabout Anna and Alex over at
empty space, uh you can findthem on Instagram at
emptyspace.sound.
They're also hosting publicsessions at PS21's
geothermically heated black boxtheater in Ghent as well.
And that'll do it for thisepisode of the Jiffy podcast, a
sleep hike to an empty space.
I'm gonna stop talking now.
Until next time, I'll see youover on the Instagram feed.
SPEAKER_01 (21:51):
Start to bring movement back to your fingers
and toes.
Uh and your knees when you'reready, sliding your heels in.
Then come back and join us in aseat of post.
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