October 26, 2025 • 17 mins
It’s a brisk October afternoon in Kingston, New York, for the final game of the Vintage Base Ball 2025 season between the Kingston Guards and the Ulster Nine.
We're at Herzog Field, beside the Catskill Mountain Railroad Station and the Hannaford parking lot, to watch two teams play baseball by 1864 rules.
From “ballists” and “muffins” to hand-caught fly balls and gentlemanly arbitration, this episode dives into the language, spirit, and spectacle of vintage base ball culture.
We hear from:
- Dan Torres, co-founder of the Kingston Guards
- Jon Palmer, team historian and player
- Brady, youngest ballist
- Holley Boncek, vintage baseball umpire
- Max, musician and Kingston Guard
- Brock, and additional members of the Ulster Nine and Kingston Guards
We get to know about:
- The rebirth of 19th-century baseball in the Hudson Valley
- 1864 rule differences: no gloves, fair/foul quirks, gentleman’s umpiring
- The community appeal of vintage sports
Music played:
"Take Me Out to the Ball Game" (1908) — Edward Meeker, Edison Records
Digitized by the Internet Archive. Public Domain (U.S.).
Links & References:
- Kingston Guards — kingstonguards.com
- Instagram: @kingstonguardsbaseball + @ulsterninebaseball1864
- Vintage Base Ball Association: vbba.org
- Rules of Base Ball (1864 edition) — Library of Congress archive
- Jon Palmer’s photography: @joninthewoods
The Kingston Guards are a nonprofit organization. Donations help fund their community outreach, education programs, and historical research. Visit their website to join, volunteer, or contribute.
Conan Plays Old Timey Baseball
Inside Conan: Kevin Dorff Revisits Old Timey Baseball
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 11 (00:03):
Hello and welcome to the Jiffy, the podcast about
Upstate New York that takes youplaces right now.
We're standing in the groundsof Herzog Field, right next to
the Catskill Mountain RailroadStation at the end of the
Hannaford parking lot inKingston, New York.
It's because we've got the teammembers of the Kingston Guards
lining up to face the Ulster 9and the season-ender
(00:23):
doubleheader of Vintage Baseball2025.
Because it's Vintage Baseball,you know, they don't play by
2025 rules, of course.
No, they play by the rules ofthe game as it was known in
1864, more or less, as you willhear.
(00:44):
No, sure, there are pitchers,catchers, fielders, just as we
know them today.
But also there are captains,ballists, artists, and muffins,
which is apparently what theyare called their lesser skilled
players.
Now I was a muffin in a littleleague, always out there in the
left field.
I mean it was a T-ball, so theball was never gonna go out that
(01:04):
far.
Nothing to do.
Anyway, I first heard aboutvintage baseball like most
people of my generation throughthe late night with Conan
O'Brien show when Conan visitedthe Old Beth page Village
Restoration on Long Island inthe year 2004.
Speaker 4 (01:24):
Hi, I'm at Old Beth page Village Restoration, where
they play old time baseball,1864 rules, 1864 costumes.
Some say a waste of time,others say an incredible waste
of time.
Speaker 11 (01:40):
It was educational to me, that remote.
It helped shape my approach tointimate journalism and uh
documentary storytelling, ofcourse.
But it also taught me about UShistory.
And while I found the pieceilluminating, uh I've always
wanted to know what did thevintage baseball community think
about it.
Anyway, fast forward 20 yearsor so, I live upstate now, and I
(02:03):
started to see these photos,really good photographs of
vintage baseball in the HudsonValley uh on Instagram.
It was on um, for example, uhthe John in the Woods Instagram
feed of historian John Palmer.
Uh-huh.
That was one good spot to seethem.
And what I think I liked mostabout them was not just that
they were really fun-lookingphotographs of uh people in
(02:23):
their uh sort of New YorkKnickerbocker outfits.
Um, but it seemed like theyclearly got a kick out of being
in this historical space of thisera of US history.
I mean, it's the Civil War era,and they've got this whole wood
type printing aesthetic.
And I could also tell that theyreally enjoyed teaching people
(02:44):
about the history of this time.
So that's what really got meinto it.
And then I also wanted to knowuh what brings them together to
do this uh every season.
So here we go.
Uh the game is just gettingstarted.
Let's go out there, let's goover to the benches to see who's
playing whom.
It's the Ulster Nine againstthe Kingston Guards.
Speaker 8 (03:06):
We're outside, we're on here, we are on the Ulster
Nine side.
And who do you have so far?
Who do we have so far?
We have uh these fine-lookinggentlemen over here.
Speaker 7 (03:14):
Uh ballists, we would call them in 1864.
So my name is Dan Torres.
I'm a co-founder of theKingston Guards vintage baseball
team.
Uh founding story, I don'tthink it's that terribly
exciting.
I really enjoy photography.
And it was pandemic era, soeveryone was photographing
birds.
Wanted to find somethingoutside of birds to photograph,
(03:34):
love baseball, kind of stumbledacross some vintage baseball
photos.
Just researched where a vintagebaseball game would happen
locally.
There was one up in DelawareCounty.
I went up to a game andhonestly fell in love.
And literally, I got home and Icalled my friend Taylor and I
was like, we have to do this.
This is such a cool thing.
This will do well in Kingston.
And he said yes, like probablytoo quickly, if that makes
(03:55):
sense.
Like with not enough, I think,background info to be like,
yeah, you're right, we should dothat.
How are you feeling?
Are you feeling in your gamemode?
Yeah, I'm excited.
I'm excited.
This is our last game of theyear, which is really great.
Uh we are ending up being thelast New York baseball team to
play in October.
Didn't really work out well forthe Yankees and the Mets.
(04:15):
So uh we're happy to be hereand offer the fans, the cranks,
we would call them, in 1864, uhthe opportunity to still watch
baseball in October.
And what are the age rates ofparticipants you have?
Oh my god.
Brady.
Fifteen, are you?
Speaker 6 (04:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (04:30):
The youngest one.
Is that right?
That's right.
And he's uh closest to thefurthest away.
We have one other guy fromBigham too.
So you guys are it's close.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Oh, you're fine.
So what brought you into theteam?
Why do you play?
Uh kind of brought me is Idon't really know, I just
decided to join.
How'd you hear YouTube?
Baseball.
Yeah.
Are you good at it?
I'm alright.
Did they make you try out?
What do they make you do tojoin the team?
I just kind of showed up andthey let me join.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
Nice.
Thank you for that.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Come over here and say how to join you.
John, how's it going?
How are you feeling?
How are you feeling today?
Getting ready?
Speaker 6 (05:03):
I'm feeling great.
I'm feeling great.
No, it's a lovely day.
It's a lovely day.
I've got the sun in my face,the wind in my hair.
Speaker 9 (05:09):
It's a little breezy.
Is that gonna change how youthink about the ball?
Speaker 6 (05:12):
No, no.
Mostly I think about it nothitting me.
Speaker 9 (05:16):
Is that a big part of it?
Trying to avoid being struck bythe ball.
Speaker 6 (05:19):
Well, I I'm a very delicate little flower.
Everybody else here is prettytough.
So, you know, I'm just I'm justworking on living up to their
expectations, which is realhard.
Max, Max is tough.
So Max will be pitching for us,I think.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
Oh, it's Doug today.
Speaker 6 (05:33):
Oh, Doug's pitching today.
All right.
Yeah, alright, sweet.
Oh man, we're mixing it up.
Boy, live.
Real, real uh uh piercing theveil here, getting to see the
inner machinations of one ofthese pro teams.
Speaker 7 (05:47):
I having seen the photos, I I did not know it
existed, admittedly, prior tothat.
Um, and so through my researchof trying to find uh a local
team, went to a game and thoughtit was a ton of fun, and I just
specifically thought thatsomething like that would do
well in Kingston.
You know, Kingston's like aquirky town.
Um, and I think the combinationof like history people, and
(06:08):
there's great rich history inUlster County and specifically
in Kingston.
And I do kind of feel likethere's this interesting like
hipster vibe that would enjoysomething like vintage baseball
as well.
And so the combo of the two, Ijust kind of felt like this will
do well here.
So yeah, this is our our mybuddy Max over here, uh
professional fiddlist.
Ready, among other talents.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
Should we line these guys up?
Look at all these guards.
Speaker 9 (06:34):
I uh saw the injury report.
Looked pretty looked prettyserious.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
Extensive.
Yeah, there's a long list.
Speaker 9 (06:40):
Exactly.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Yeah, there's even a Pinkies Club this year, with uh
people who have sufferedinjuries to their last digit,
myself included, working on aruptured tendon right now,
coming back from that.
But the only cure is uh splintit up in weight.
So that's what I've been doing.
Still playing through it,because last year I learned that
really doesn't make that muchof a difference.
(07:01):
I went and tried to play againon it after the doctor said it
was okay to go and it dinged meagain.
So this year we just keptplaying right through.
And uh yeah, one more day toget through.
And you and is it your fiddlein hand?
No, you know last year it was.
This year it's my bow in hand.
So thank goodness for that.
Last year I had a bunch of gigsduring the uh interim when my
(07:21):
middle finger was wrapped up,and uh some folks noticed, but
others didn't, so we skated bythat time.
You're really playing withfire.
You know what I've learned?
Yeah, you know what I'velearned?
If you keep your you gotta keepyour eye on the ball, you gotta
keep your head in the game, andthen you you you you usually
come out on top.
It's when you it's when you getlackadaisical that the ball's
gonna find you and it's gonnacatch you.
(07:43):
Thank you.
Play ball.
Speaker 7 (07:48):
So, you know, a lot of people ask what vintage
baseball is.
We specifically play baseballby 1864 rules.
And so there's a number ofnotable differences when it
comes to that.
Uh one of the biggest and mostobvious when you watch it is
there's no gloves.
So you catch a baseball uhwithout a glove, that can hurt.
(08:09):
We've had multiple brokenfingers on the team, but uh
that's how you play.
Uh to mitigate some of thoserisks, a ball caught on a hop
isn't out as well, so that's avery different thing.
A ball that is hit in fair playand rolls foul, that is a fair
ball.
So that becomes a little bit ofan exciting thing as well.
It's underhand pitching.
You can't overrun first base.
(08:31):
I mean, I think really one ofthe big differences, like the
bat people want the batter toput the ball in play.
So it is a quick pace game.
It is not uncommon to score 20plus runs in a game as well.
There are very few strikeouts,so um, the crowd tends to like
it more because it's morefast-paced.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
All right, still one away.
Hello.
Speaker 7 (08:52):
Tell us what happened there.
Speaker 11 (08:53):
That was a pretty impressive game.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Thank you.
Uh well, uh, I started to getthe ball in play uh to move my
men along, and thankfully we didthat.
Uh I noticed that uh Dutch, akathe Netherlands gentleman
behind the dish.
Uh his memory was lapsing.
He was not paying attention tothe runner on third, so uh with
a faint torch second, I drew athrow, allowing uh Nick, aka
(09:18):
Gato to score from uh uh fromthird base.
How many runs did you bring in?
Uh that play, I believe, run intwo.
Uh yeah, which makes the uhafter uh one inning of play, uh
excuse me, in the middle of oneinning of play, uh four to uh
nothing gives him guards.
Speaker 9 (09:36):
Who's the gentleman with the wide brim hat and it
looks like a pocket watch?
Speaker 3 (09:40):
The umpire.
Speaker 9 (09:42):
Oh, he's the umpire.
Okay.
Go speak with him.
I'm not sure who he is.
I haven't seen him before.
He's very mysterious.
I definitely want to chat withhim.
Speaker 5 (09:49):
Absolutely.
My name is Holly Bonsick.
I actually got involved in thisabout 25 years ago when I was a
Civil War reenactor.
We played a vintage baseballgame, and then uh I got involved
about three years ago.
Uh friends of mine needed anumpire for a game, and I've been
doing it since then.
Uh, and my role is to be thearbiter.
(10:11):
I am not what we would considera modern umpire.
I am more here to keep the gamemoving, and if there are any
disputes, I am here to settlethem.
Speaker 9 (10:19):
Arbitration, yes.
The rules from 1864.
So it says rules andregulations of the game of
baseball adopted by the NationalAssociation of Baseball Players
held in New York December 12,1862.
Speaker 5 (10:30):
Yep.
So since we're in 64, theyhadn't adopted new rules yet, so
we're still playing under the62 rules.
Um very different from modernbaseball.
Speaker 7 (10:38):
The way games are umpired is very different.
There's a single umpire that umstands a little bit to the side
because they also don't havegear, so it's not directly
behind home plate as you wouldkind of think of in a modern
baseball game.
They issue what's known as awarning to the striker, which is
the batter, or warning to thehurler, which is a pitcher, and
that's when the count starts.
So, really in baseball in thisera, like the umpire is there to
(11:01):
make sure the game does movealong, but they are not nearly
as prevalent in the game as amodern umpire is as well.
Um, for example, if there's aclose play on the base path, the
umpire again is behind homeplate, they will actually ask,
like, let's say it's at firstbase, the first baseman and the
runner to come up with thedecision.
You know, it's thought of as agentleman's game, and therefore,
like people should be able tohonestly interpret the rules and
(11:22):
say, I was out or I was safe,and kind of go from there as
well.
Speaker 10 (11:25):
That's all post if you want to join the league.
What do people, if they'reinterested, what where should
they go?
What should they know?
What should they prepare?
Do they need to start workingout now?
Speaker 7 (11:35):
Uh well, luckily, this is an audio presentation,
so you can't see the level ofshape I am for the listeners at
home.
But um, no, I mean like it'sit's a game where we are a very
diverse set group of people.
We have people on our team whoare college athletes, we have
people who are historians, andwe have people who literally
just like wearing a funnycostume.
(11:55):
And so we do a good job of liketrying to incorporate everyone
in a way that allows them toplay and have a good time while
also putting on a good show forpeople.
And I think we've largely beenable to do that mix uh
appropriately.
Speaker 8 (12:08):
Again, a bold call on the hop is an out.
There are no outs as well.
Speaker 7 (12:12):
Sometimes we have some people who want to
challenge you on history andunderstand of like, well, did
this or that happen in 1864?
Most of the time you get peoplewho are just genuinely curious
and like want to know.
And one of the cool thingsabout a vintage baseball game is
like you can go by a park in atown and see people playing any
kind of rec sport, and you'renot gonna stop.
It doesn't catch you per seunless you're intimately
involved.
(12:32):
If you walk by a vintagebaseball game and you're not
expecting that, you are going tostop.
Like it is a unique lookingthing where in these older
costumes it is a fun, funnierkind of dynamic, and so it
really engages just kind ofregular people to be like, what
are you all doing?
A lot of times people are like,when did this happen?
or how do I get involved?
It's it's actually been a greatrecruitment tool to kind of
(12:54):
just walk up and down and chatwith people.
Speaker 10 (12:57):
Is the Conan O'Brien clip, is that a source subject
in the community, or is itappreciated?
Speaker 7 (13:05):
I can say from my perspective, I think it's really
appreciated.
You know, I think there's uhdiverging opinions in any
historical community about thelike very serious, 100% accurate
nature of something versus thewe're gonna do our best and make
it an educational moment to getmore people involved in the
thing we're talking about.
Um I'm more of the lattergroup, right?
Like I I would love it if younever saw a Nike swoosh on
(13:28):
someone's sneakers and you knowmade sure everything was 100%
accurate.
We're not gonna be able to dothat.
We try our best, but I, youknow, I personally think I'm
willing to sacrifice some ofthose things to provide someone
a fun historical opportunity andfor other people in the
community to participate in thaton the playing field as well,
too.
Speaker 10 (13:46):
This was season four?
Season four, yeah.
Speaker 7 (13:48):
So next year's season five?
Season five.
Wow.
I think we've been renewed foran additional season.
Congratulations.
Speaker 10 (13:54):
Uh, what are your hopes for next season?
Speaker 7 (13:55):
Oh, I have high hopes for next season.
So next year is America's 250thanniversary.
Um, and uh obviously baseball,well, there's a debate about
this, but baseball is not aroundin the way we think about it in
1776.
But I think that baseball hasjust always been a great entree
to talking about America andAmerican life and the American
spirit.
And so I really want us tochannel that for next year.
(14:16):
So we have really excitingplans.
Obviously, like what we do onthe field, people have seen
that.
We want to trich we want tochange up our uniforms next
year, actually, to be a littlemore like patriotic ensemble.
So that'll be a fun thing.
And I also think we just wantto lean more into the community
and the history components ofthe stuff we're doing.
You know, our team is namedafter uh the 120th regiment from
(14:37):
um Kingston area was UlsterCounty and Green County.
And so we've been researchingsome of the historic markers,
and I think you know, nextspring we'd actually like to
clean up some markers from umpeople who are actual literal
Kingston guards, potentiallyorder someone uh a new headstone
who maybe that's deterioratedin the last 150 plus years from
that.
Um, and just kind ofresearching some of the unique
(14:57):
history that we found um inKingston as well.
Speaker (15:00):
Take me out to the ball game, done by Edward Naker,
Edison Record.
Speaker 11 (15:06):
I want to thank Dan Torres, co-founder of the
Kingston Guards and the UlsterNine, for chatting with me.
He wanted me to mention thatthey're always looking for more
players, if if you're interestedin that, and they're also
looking for support.
It's a non-for-profitorganization, and you can
donate.
It'll all go towards fundingtheir programming, community
work, and historical researchand education.
If you want to join the team ormake a donation, you can just
(15:29):
reach out to them at theirwebsite, KingstonGuards.com or
on Instagram.
I'll have a link to both ofthose in the show notes.
Thanks again, Dan, John, Brock,Brady, Max on the Fiddle,
Umpire Holly, and all theplayers for letting me hang out
and be a crank for the day.
By the way, the final score forthe doubleheader was 18-4 and
(15:53):
14 to 6.
The Kingston Guards winningboth.
Way to go, Kingston Guards.
A lot of my research for thisepisode comes from the rules and
regulations as laid out by theVintage Baseball Association.
And I have to apologize to thehistorians and rulemakers of the
VBBA, because the song thatwe're hearing right now is by
(16:13):
Edward Meeker, a recording from1908.
So not totally periodappropriate to the 1860s.
I still love it though.
If you like this episode,please forward it to a friend.
This is a very small podcast,and things like that really help
get the word out and make thispodcast heard by, I don't know,
(16:34):
your best friend.
Anyway, that's it for thisepisode of the Gypsy.
Until next time, I guess I'llsee you over on the James Cave
Instagram feed.
Hello and welcome to the Jiffy, the podcast about
Upstate New York that takes youplaces right now.
We're standing in the groundsof Herzog Field, right next to
the Catskill Mountain RailroadStation at the end of the
Hannaford parking lot inKingston, New York.
It's because we've got the teammembers of the Kingston Guards
lining up to face the Ulster 9and the season-ender
(00:23):
doubleheader of Vintage Baseball2025.
Because it's Vintage Baseball,you know, they don't play by
2025 rules, of course.
No, they play by the rules ofthe game as it was known in
1864, more or less, as you willhear.
(00:44):
No, sure, there are pitchers,catchers, fielders, just as we
know them today.
But also there are captains,ballists, artists, and muffins,
which is apparently what theyare called their lesser skilled
players.
Now I was a muffin in a littleleague, always out there in the
left field.
I mean it was a T-ball, so theball was never gonna go out that
(01:04):
far.
Nothing to do.
Anyway, I first heard aboutvintage baseball like most
people of my generation throughthe late night with Conan
O'Brien show when Conan visitedthe Old Beth page Village
Restoration on Long Island inthe year 2004.
Speaker 4 (01:24):
Hi, I'm at Old Beth page Village Restoration, where
they play old time baseball,1864 rules, 1864 costumes.
Some say a waste of time,others say an incredible waste
of time.
Speaker 11 (01:40):
It was educational to me, that remote.
It helped shape my approach tointimate journalism and uh
documentary storytelling, ofcourse.
But it also taught me about UShistory.
And while I found the pieceilluminating, uh I've always
wanted to know what did thevintage baseball community think
about it.
Anyway, fast forward 20 yearsor so, I live upstate now, and I
(02:03):
started to see these photos,really good photographs of
vintage baseball in the HudsonValley uh on Instagram.
It was on um, for example, uhthe John in the Woods Instagram
feed of historian John Palmer.
Uh-huh.
That was one good spot to seethem.
And what I think I liked mostabout them was not just that
they were really fun-lookingphotographs of uh people in
(02:23):
their uh sort of New YorkKnickerbocker outfits.
Um, but it seemed like theyclearly got a kick out of being
in this historical space of thisera of US history.
I mean, it's the Civil War era,and they've got this whole wood
type printing aesthetic.
And I could also tell that theyreally enjoyed teaching people
(02:44):
about the history of this time.
So that's what really got meinto it.
And then I also wanted to knowuh what brings them together to
do this uh every season.
So here we go.
Uh the game is just gettingstarted.
Let's go out there, let's goover to the benches to see who's
playing whom.
It's the Ulster Nine againstthe Kingston Guards.
Speaker 8 (03:06):
We're outside, we're on here, we are on the Ulster
Nine side.
And who do you have so far?
Who do we have so far?
We have uh these fine-lookinggentlemen over here.
Speaker 7 (03:14):
Uh ballists, we would call them in 1864.
So my name is Dan Torres.
I'm a co-founder of theKingston Guards vintage baseball
team.
Uh founding story, I don'tthink it's that terribly
exciting.
I really enjoy photography.
And it was pandemic era, soeveryone was photographing
birds.
Wanted to find somethingoutside of birds to photograph,
(03:34):
love baseball, kind of stumbledacross some vintage baseball
photos.
Just researched where a vintagebaseball game would happen
locally.
There was one up in DelawareCounty.
I went up to a game andhonestly fell in love.
And literally, I got home and Icalled my friend Taylor and I
was like, we have to do this.
This is such a cool thing.
This will do well in Kingston.
And he said yes, like probablytoo quickly, if that makes
(03:55):
sense.
Like with not enough, I think,background info to be like,
yeah, you're right, we should dothat.
How are you feeling?
Are you feeling in your gamemode?
Yeah, I'm excited.
I'm excited.
This is our last game of theyear, which is really great.
Uh we are ending up being thelast New York baseball team to
play in October.
Didn't really work out well forthe Yankees and the Mets.
(04:15):
So uh we're happy to be hereand offer the fans, the cranks,
we would call them, in 1864, uhthe opportunity to still watch
baseball in October.
And what are the age rates ofparticipants you have?
Oh my god.
Brady.
Fifteen, are you?
Speaker 6 (04:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (04:30):
The youngest one.
Is that right?
That's right.
And he's uh closest to thefurthest away.
We have one other guy fromBigham too.
So you guys are it's close.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Oh, you're fine.
So what brought you into theteam?
Why do you play?
Uh kind of brought me is Idon't really know, I just
decided to join.
How'd you hear YouTube?
Baseball.
Yeah.
Are you good at it?
I'm alright.
Did they make you try out?
What do they make you do tojoin the team?
I just kind of showed up andthey let me join.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
Nice.
Thank you for that.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Come over here and say how to join you.
John, how's it going?
How are you feeling?
How are you feeling today?
Getting ready?
Speaker 6 (05:03):
I'm feeling great.
I'm feeling great.
No, it's a lovely day.
It's a lovely day.
I've got the sun in my face,the wind in my hair.
Speaker 9 (05:09):
It's a little breezy.
Is that gonna change how youthink about the ball?
Speaker 6 (05:12):
No, no.
Mostly I think about it nothitting me.
Speaker 9 (05:16):
Is that a big part of it?
Trying to avoid being struck bythe ball.
Speaker 6 (05:19):
Well, I I'm a very delicate little flower.
Everybody else here is prettytough.
So, you know, I'm just I'm justworking on living up to their
expectations, which is realhard.
Max, Max is tough.
So Max will be pitching for us,I think.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
Oh, it's Doug today.
Speaker 6 (05:33):
Oh, Doug's pitching today.
All right.
Yeah, alright, sweet.
Oh man, we're mixing it up.
Boy, live.
Real, real uh uh piercing theveil here, getting to see the
inner machinations of one ofthese pro teams.
Speaker 7 (05:47):
I having seen the photos, I I did not know it
existed, admittedly, prior tothat.
Um, and so through my researchof trying to find uh a local
team, went to a game and thoughtit was a ton of fun, and I just
specifically thought thatsomething like that would do
well in Kingston.
You know, Kingston's like aquirky town.
Um, and I think the combinationof like history people, and
(06:08):
there's great rich history inUlster County and specifically
in Kingston.
And I do kind of feel likethere's this interesting like
hipster vibe that would enjoysomething like vintage baseball
as well.
And so the combo of the two, Ijust kind of felt like this will
do well here.
So yeah, this is our our mybuddy Max over here, uh
professional fiddlist.
Ready, among other talents.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
Should we line these guys up?
Look at all these guards.
Speaker 9 (06:34):
I uh saw the injury report.
Looked pretty looked prettyserious.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
Extensive.
Yeah, there's a long list.
Speaker 9 (06:40):
Exactly.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Yeah, there's even a Pinkies Club this year, with uh
people who have sufferedinjuries to their last digit,
myself included, working on aruptured tendon right now,
coming back from that.
But the only cure is uh splintit up in weight.
So that's what I've been doing.
Still playing through it,because last year I learned that
really doesn't make that muchof a difference.
(07:01):
I went and tried to play againon it after the doctor said it
was okay to go and it dinged meagain.
So this year we just keptplaying right through.
And uh yeah, one more day toget through.
And you and is it your fiddlein hand?
No, you know last year it was.
This year it's my bow in hand.
So thank goodness for that.
Last year I had a bunch of gigsduring the uh interim when my
(07:21):
middle finger was wrapped up,and uh some folks noticed, but
others didn't, so we skated bythat time.
You're really playing withfire.
You know what I've learned?
Yeah, you know what I'velearned?
If you keep your you gotta keepyour eye on the ball, you gotta
keep your head in the game, andthen you you you you usually
come out on top.
It's when you it's when you getlackadaisical that the ball's
gonna find you and it's gonnacatch you.
(07:43):
Thank you.
Play ball.
Speaker 7 (07:48):
So, you know, a lot of people ask what vintage
baseball is.
We specifically play baseballby 1864 rules.
And so there's a number ofnotable differences when it
comes to that.
Uh one of the biggest and mostobvious when you watch it is
there's no gloves.
So you catch a baseball uhwithout a glove, that can hurt.
(08:09):
We've had multiple brokenfingers on the team, but uh
that's how you play.
Uh to mitigate some of thoserisks, a ball caught on a hop
isn't out as well, so that's avery different thing.
A ball that is hit in fair playand rolls foul, that is a fair
ball.
So that becomes a little bit ofan exciting thing as well.
It's underhand pitching.
You can't overrun first base.
(08:31):
I mean, I think really one ofthe big differences, like the
bat people want the batter toput the ball in play.
So it is a quick pace game.
It is not uncommon to score 20plus runs in a game as well.
There are very few strikeouts,so um, the crowd tends to like
it more because it's morefast-paced.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
All right, still one away.
Hello.
Speaker 7 (08:52):
Tell us what happened there.
Speaker 11 (08:53):
That was a pretty impressive game.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Thank you.
Uh well, uh, I started to getthe ball in play uh to move my
men along, and thankfully we didthat.
Uh I noticed that uh Dutch, akathe Netherlands gentleman
behind the dish.
Uh his memory was lapsing.
He was not paying attention tothe runner on third, so uh with
a faint torch second, I drew athrow, allowing uh Nick, aka
(09:18):
Gato to score from uh uh fromthird base.
How many runs did you bring in?
Uh that play, I believe, run intwo.
Uh yeah, which makes the uhafter uh one inning of play, uh
excuse me, in the middle of oneinning of play, uh four to uh
nothing gives him guards.
Speaker 9 (09:36):
Who's the gentleman with the wide brim hat and it
looks like a pocket watch?
Speaker 3 (09:40):
The umpire.
Speaker 9 (09:42):
Oh, he's the umpire.
Okay.
Go speak with him.
I'm not sure who he is.
I haven't seen him before.
He's very mysterious.
I definitely want to chat withhim.
Speaker 5 (09:49):
Absolutely.
My name is Holly Bonsick.
I actually got involved in thisabout 25 years ago when I was a
Civil War reenactor.
We played a vintage baseballgame, and then uh I got involved
about three years ago.
Uh friends of mine needed anumpire for a game, and I've been
doing it since then.
Uh, and my role is to be thearbiter.
(10:11):
I am not what we would considera modern umpire.
I am more here to keep the gamemoving, and if there are any
disputes, I am here to settlethem.
Speaker 9 (10:19):
Arbitration, yes.
The rules from 1864.
So it says rules andregulations of the game of
baseball adopted by the NationalAssociation of Baseball Players
held in New York December 12,1862.
Speaker 5 (10:30):
Yep.
So since we're in 64, theyhadn't adopted new rules yet, so
we're still playing under the62 rules.
Um very different from modernbaseball.
Speaker 7 (10:38):
The way games are umpired is very different.
There's a single umpire that umstands a little bit to the side
because they also don't havegear, so it's not directly
behind home plate as you wouldkind of think of in a modern
baseball game.
They issue what's known as awarning to the striker, which is
the batter, or warning to thehurler, which is a pitcher, and
that's when the count starts.
So, really in baseball in thisera, like the umpire is there to
(11:01):
make sure the game does movealong, but they are not nearly
as prevalent in the game as amodern umpire is as well.
Um, for example, if there's aclose play on the base path, the
umpire again is behind homeplate, they will actually ask,
like, let's say it's at firstbase, the first baseman and the
runner to come up with thedecision.
You know, it's thought of as agentleman's game, and therefore,
like people should be able tohonestly interpret the rules and
(11:22):
say, I was out or I was safe,and kind of go from there as
well.
Speaker 10 (11:25):
That's all post if you want to join the league.
What do people, if they'reinterested, what where should
they go?
What should they know?
What should they prepare?
Do they need to start workingout now?
Speaker 7 (11:35):
Uh well, luckily, this is an audio presentation,
so you can't see the level ofshape I am for the listeners at
home.
But um, no, I mean like it'sit's a game where we are a very
diverse set group of people.
We have people on our team whoare college athletes, we have
people who are historians, andwe have people who literally
just like wearing a funnycostume.
(11:55):
And so we do a good job of liketrying to incorporate everyone
in a way that allows them toplay and have a good time while
also putting on a good show forpeople.
And I think we've largely beenable to do that mix uh
appropriately.
Speaker 8 (12:08):
Again, a bold call on the hop is an out.
There are no outs as well.
Speaker 7 (12:12):
Sometimes we have some people who want to
challenge you on history andunderstand of like, well, did
this or that happen in 1864?
Most of the time you get peoplewho are just genuinely curious
and like want to know.
And one of the cool thingsabout a vintage baseball game is
like you can go by a park in atown and see people playing any
kind of rec sport, and you'renot gonna stop.
It doesn't catch you per seunless you're intimately
involved.
(12:32):
If you walk by a vintagebaseball game and you're not
expecting that, you are going tostop.
Like it is a unique lookingthing where in these older
costumes it is a fun, funnierkind of dynamic, and so it
really engages just kind ofregular people to be like, what
are you all doing?
A lot of times people are like,when did this happen?
or how do I get involved?
It's it's actually been a greatrecruitment tool to kind of
(12:54):
just walk up and down and chatwith people.
Speaker 10 (12:57):
Is the Conan O'Brien clip, is that a source subject
in the community, or is itappreciated?
Speaker 7 (13:05):
I can say from my perspective, I think it's really
appreciated.
You know, I think there's uhdiverging opinions in any
historical community about thelike very serious, 100% accurate
nature of something versus thewe're gonna do our best and make
it an educational moment to getmore people involved in the
thing we're talking about.
Um I'm more of the lattergroup, right?
Like I I would love it if younever saw a Nike swoosh on
(13:28):
someone's sneakers and you knowmade sure everything was 100%
accurate.
We're not gonna be able to dothat.
We try our best, but I, youknow, I personally think I'm
willing to sacrifice some ofthose things to provide someone
a fun historical opportunity andfor other people in the
community to participate in thaton the playing field as well,
too.
Speaker 10 (13:46):
This was season four?
Season four, yeah.
Speaker 7 (13:48):
So next year's season five?
Season five.
Wow.
I think we've been renewed foran additional season.
Congratulations.
Speaker 10 (13:54):
Uh, what are your hopes for next season?
Speaker 7 (13:55):
Oh, I have high hopes for next season.
So next year is America's 250thanniversary.
Um, and uh obviously baseball,well, there's a debate about
this, but baseball is not aroundin the way we think about it in
1776.
But I think that baseball hasjust always been a great entree
to talking about America andAmerican life and the American
spirit.
And so I really want us tochannel that for next year.
(14:16):
So we have really excitingplans.
Obviously, like what we do onthe field, people have seen
that.
We want to trich we want tochange up our uniforms next
year, actually, to be a littlemore like patriotic ensemble.
So that'll be a fun thing.
And I also think we just wantto lean more into the community
and the history components ofthe stuff we're doing.
You know, our team is namedafter uh the 120th regiment from
(14:37):
um Kingston area was UlsterCounty and Green County.
And so we've been researchingsome of the historic markers,
and I think you know, nextspring we'd actually like to
clean up some markers from umpeople who are actual literal
Kingston guards, potentiallyorder someone uh a new headstone
who maybe that's deterioratedin the last 150 plus years from
that.
Um, and just kind ofresearching some of the unique
(14:57):
history that we found um inKingston as well.
Speaker (15:00):
Take me out to the ball game, done by Edward Naker,
Edison Record.
Speaker 11 (15:06):
I want to thank Dan Torres, co-founder of the
Kingston Guards and the UlsterNine, for chatting with me.
He wanted me to mention thatthey're always looking for more
players, if if you're interestedin that, and they're also
looking for support.
It's a non-for-profitorganization, and you can
donate.
It'll all go towards fundingtheir programming, community
work, and historical researchand education.
If you want to join the team ormake a donation, you can just
(15:29):
reach out to them at theirwebsite, KingstonGuards.com or
on Instagram.
I'll have a link to both ofthose in the show notes.
Thanks again, Dan, John, Brock,Brady, Max on the Fiddle,
Umpire Holly, and all theplayers for letting me hang out
and be a crank for the day.
By the way, the final score forthe doubleheader was 18-4 and
(15:53):
14 to 6.
The Kingston Guards winningboth.
Way to go, Kingston Guards.
A lot of my research for thisepisode comes from the rules and
regulations as laid out by theVintage Baseball Association.
And I have to apologize to thehistorians and rulemakers of the
VBBA, because the song thatwe're hearing right now is by
(16:13):
Edward Meeker, a recording from1908.
So not totally periodappropriate to the 1860s.
I still love it though.
If you like this episode,please forward it to a friend.
This is a very small podcast,and things like that really help
get the word out and make thispodcast heard by, I don't know,
(16:34):
your best friend.
Anyway, that's it for thisepisode of the Gypsy.
Until next time, I guess I'llsee you over on the James Cave
Instagram feed.
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