July 5, 2025 • 40 mins
In this episode, I’m continuing our tour through The Jiffy-Mart – my online bodega and members’ lounge – and this time, we’re stepping through the forest refrigerator straight into the Catskill Mountains. I’m bringing back my series "Tree Minute" to finally learn what I’m looking at out there in the woods. To help, I’ve teamed up with Giovanna D’Angelo, an education forester with the Catskill Forest Association, who graciously agreed to teach me how to tell a yellow birch from a black birch and why some aspens quake that way.
Then, I visit my friend, novelist Tom Grattan, to hear what he’s been reading lately. He’s got four summer books to recommend, from a queer coming-of-age classic to a smart novella about the illusions of perfection – and the page-turner set in upstate New York that everybody's been talking about for the past year.
Books We Talk About
- "Tramps Like Us," by Joe Westmoreland
- "The Hive and the Honey," by Paul Yoon
- "The God of the Woods," by Liz Moore
- "Perfection," by Vincenzo Latronico, translated by Sophie Hughes
Links & Resources
- Browse The Jiffy-Mart: thejiffy.xyz/jiffy-mart
- Follow me on Instagram: @jamescave
- Follow Catskill Forest Association: @catskillforest
- Follow Tom Grattan: @tomgrattan
Join the Community!
If you like this podcast, consider becoming a premium member. You’ll get audio exclusives (including my side chat with Tom about blurbs), behind-the-scenes updates, and access to J: Magazine The Style Magazine Of The James Cave Instagram Feed. Every membership helps me keep making this work.
Join or upgrade here.
I’ve been thinking about blurbs (those endorsements you see on book covers) and I’d love to know: What would your blurb be about this podcast? You can text me your blurb (there’s a link in the show notes), and maybe I’ll share a few on the next episode.
If you enjoyed this one, I hope you’ll share it with a friend. Word of mouth is still the best way to keep the Grab Bag of Goods stocked and thriving.
Until next time, I'll see you on the Instagram feed.
"The Jiffy Audio Newsletter Podcast" is an audio documentary zine – the official podcast of The Jiffy – exploring the odd histories, cozy mysteries, and surprising characters of upstate New York. Each episode is a small adventure, told with curiosity, humor, and the occasional text message from a stranger.
New episodes drop every other week. Subscribe, share, and take the scenic route with us.
Follow James on Instagram: @jamescave
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Hello and welcome to another episode of the Jiffy
Audio Newsletter podcast, apodcast about upstate New York
that takes you places like righthere.
We're still right in the grabbag of goods.
If you remember in our lastepisode, we took a tour of the
new Jiffy Mart, the onlinebodega of the James Cave
Instagram feed.
That's me.
(00:20):
I'm James Cave.
We saw the bodega cat room.
We looked at the cash register.
We visited my office and welearned about how to approach
writing land acknowledge for ourorganizations.
Now, this is part two in theGrab Bag series, celebrating the
grand opening of the Jiffy Mart.
There's just so much to seehere.
This is where I have the premiumsubscriber community.
(00:42):
It's got premium content likebehind the scenes footage, audio
exclusives, access to JMagazine, the style magazine of
the feed.
It all helps to support thispodcast and all the other
projects I'm doing around here.
In fact, the Jiffy Mart is openright now.
If you'd like to shop around,you can find it at thejiffy.com.
or you can find a link to it inmy show notes.
(01:04):
And you can join the membershipright there as well.
It all helps to support thisstuff.
But now back to the tour.
Over here, as you see, the booksection is completely empty.
I have no idea what to put here.
There's just too many books.
So later in this episode, we'regoing to visit novelist Tom
Grattan at his house to see whathe's been reading so far this
summer.
But first, I want to show yousomething.
Over here against this wall,this is the forest refrigerator
(01:26):
of the woods.
This refrigerator, believe it ornot, When we open it up, it
takes us straight to the heartof the Catskill Mountains.
It's like a portal.
The problem with the forestrefrigerator is that I have no
idea what I'm looking at.
When I open it up, there's justso many trees in there.
I can't tell a tree from a tree.
And that's a problem becauseI've started a series over on
(01:47):
the Instagram feed called TreeMinute.
It's all about trees.
Here's the story.
It was about 66 weeks ago.
It was the depths of winter.
When I looked outside in themorning light and I I saw the
trees in the woods around myhouse just glistening like they
were encrusted in diamonds.
They were completely frozen topto bottom.
Every leafless branch reflectingthe morning sun like a forest of
(02:10):
glass.
It was really neat and so Ithought, I've got to make some
content out of this.
I like trees.
We should start a series abouttrees.
So it became the first episodeand then the only episode of a
brand new series called TreeMinute.
Here, I'll play that firstepisode for you right now.
It's just about one minute long.
Good morning.
(02:31):
So the trees are really frozen.
I feel like it's something thatwe should make for content.
I feel like that's what naturewants.
It wants to be seen onInstagram.
So let's go look at the frozentrees.
That's what we're doing on ourfirst episode of Tree Minute.
What happens when trees freeze?
Did you know that trees are thelargest living thing on the
(02:53):
planet?
Some trees out in California arelarger and heavier than even
blue whales.
Isn't that something?
And more than that, trees areessentially 80% water.
And of course, if all that waterwere to freeze up, trees would
be exploding all over the place.
But not here, as you can see.
So what's happening?
Well, trees are softer and moreflexible than glass or metal,
(03:13):
obviously, which would burstunder the pressure of frozen
water.
And as the water expands in andaround the trees' interiors, the
tree's tissue can stretch enoughto avoid bursting, in most
cases.
And if you remember fromLeafwatch Leap 2023, the leaves
drop their leaves every year soas to reduce their need for
water.
Some trees, like maple trees,start to produce a lot of sugar
(03:36):
for the winter because when thesugar dissolves in water, it
lowers the water's freezingpoint, sort of like a natural
antifreeze.
This is why a lot of people liketo tap into maple trees to make
syrup.
Isn't that something?
Well, this concludes thisepisode So that's the idea.
(03:57):
Tree Minute.
Clearly, I think trees areimportant.
I think they deserve space onthe James Cave Instagram feed.
But the thing about that firstTree Minute episode is that I
got most of my facts completelywrong.
So...
If I was really to understandtrees and really make space for
tree storytelling here on theJames Cavy Screen Feed, I
thought it'd be important tobring in an expert who can
(04:20):
really talk to us about treesfrom a place of knowledge and
accuracy.
So here we go.
As I open up the treerefrigerator to the woods and
walk through this cooler,transporting us to the middle of
the Catskill Mountains, we'regoing to bring back Tree Minute,
but this time in partnershipwith the Catskill Forest
Association, specifically theireducation forester Giovanna
(04:41):
D'Angelo who looks like she'salready out there identifying
some trees for us.
Hey, let's go catch up with herand see what she's looking at.
SPEAKER_00 (04:47):
Okay, I'm going to...
Let's see if we can identifythat older tree, and that'll
decide which one I talk aboutright now.
All right, so we're here withyellow birch, or Betula
alleghaniensis of the Betulaceaefamily.
So yellow birch...
(05:08):
is very distinctive in its bark.
It's coming off in these thinpapery curls.
The bark is exfoliating.
It's also reflective with thisunique bronze yellowish golden
color to it that is unique toyellow birch.
Paper birch also exfoliates, butit exfoliates in larger sheets
and the colors are different.
SPEAKER_01 (05:28):
What makes birch so special,
SPEAKER_00 (05:32):
huh?
Well, to me, what makes yellowbirch and also black birch so
special is the winter greensmell and taste in the twigs and
the roots.
SPEAKER_01 (05:41):
That's really cool.
It looks like minty.
SPEAKER_00 (05:43):
Let me see if I can...
That might be a baby leaf overthere.
Yes! Okay, there we go.
This, though, this is blackbirch.
Smell that.
No, James.
No, James, smell
SPEAKER_01 (05:56):
it.
UNKNOWN (05:56):
Oh.
SPEAKER_00 (05:57):
It smells so good.
SPEAKER_01 (05:58):
Whoa,
SPEAKER_00 (06:00):
isn't that insane?
They were one of my favoritetrees when I learned them
because I was like, no way.
I was like, there's just no way.
Yeah, yellow birch is one of thetrees where I'm often like, who
made this?
Like who made all of this?
Who put winter green tasting,smelling compounds in birch?
I love it.
So at the Catskill ForestAssociation, we are a nonprofit
(06:23):
organization, and we rely solelyon educating our members, and
through that, getting thepopulation around here to
steward their forested land.
So we rely mainly on educationto do that through hands-on
programs, through workshops,publications online, as well as
our newsletter.
Yeah, so I do a variety ofdifferent things.
(06:45):
We fill a lot of niches forsmall landowners, everything
from pruning and grafting appletrees to, you know, habitat
cutting for wildlife andmushroom inoculation.
SPEAKER_01 (06:54):
For me, like I have five acres of my place and I've
got a range of trees.
Why is it helpful for me to beable to identify them and
understand what they do and justknow them a little bit better?
Why do you think that'simportant?
SPEAKER_00 (07:06):
So there's no one reason that fits everything.
everyone, but trees can beuseful to everyone and to anyone
for a variety of differentgoals.
Like maybe you're heating yourplace with wood and maybe you
want to get that wood from yourproperty because it's coming
from someone's wood.
So why not yours?
You know, you want to know whichtrees to cut.
Maybe you want to know thehealth of the trees so you can
pick the best trees to cut.
(07:27):
You know, different firewoodwill burn differently, like
different tree species burndifferently.
So you'd want to know how toidentify them so you can tell
which trees to take out.
So you're not burning white pinein your fireplace, you know?
We're here with Quaking Aspen orTrembling Aspen, Populus
tremuloides of the Salicaceaefamily or the Willow and Poplar
(07:47):
family.
You can tell it's Quaking Aspen.
It's got this very lightcharacteristic bark.
It's a light gray, almost whitein some places.
It's very smooth, but it's gotthese fissures, these light
fissures going up and down.
It also has chevrons, darkchevrons or eye-like patterns
along the bark.
If you go up on the tree and youtake a look at the twig, you'll
(08:09):
notice that the leaves ofquaking aspen are alternately
arranged on the stem, meaningthey come off alternately on
alternate points, notoppositely.
If we take a look at the leaf,you'll notice what's unique is
that the petiole or the stem ofthe leaf is flat, meaning I
can't twirl it in my fingers.
This is what gives the aspen thecharacteristic tremble or quake
(08:31):
that gives it its name.
So when the wind catches it, theleaves almost look like they're
waving at you.
But really, the biggest reasonis that the trees are here next
to us every single day.
Everywhere you drive, even juststepping outside of your house,
you know, we beautify our spaceswith them.
They clean the air in ourspaces.
I think it's just generalknowledge at this point to be
(08:53):
able to tell the differencebetween a couple of species.
You don't have to be able totell every single one apart, but
just to have a general knowledgeI think is respectful to the
land and also something reallyuseful that will come in handy
in many different ways in yourlife.
SPEAKER_01 (09:07):
It is a calm day.
SPEAKER_00 (09:07):
Yeah.
It's a hot one today, andthankfully quaking aspen has a
powdery-like residue on thebark, also called a bloom, that
Native Americans would sometimesuse as sunscreen or protection
from the sun.
The bark also has salicin in it,a compound that is
anti-inflammatory, and the samecompound you find in willows,
(09:30):
also in the salicaceae family,that help with pain relief and
was the inspiration behindaspirin.
Yeah.
My hands feel nice and soft now.
SPEAKER_01 (09:41):
Because of the leaves or because
SPEAKER_00 (09:43):
of him?
Wow.
SPEAKER_01 (09:45):
Thank you, tree.
SPEAKER_00 (09:46):
Oh, look, they're going.
They're quaking.
They're quaking.
Nice.
Look at them go.
So
SPEAKER_01 (09:54):
can you talk to me about your process?
Like what's tree identification101?
How do you get started on this?
SPEAKER_00 (10:01):
I think I do have a process.
It can differ from person toperson depending on what they
notice.
Definitely starting up closewith a tree when you're new to
it.
So, you know, looking at thebark first, sometimes bark is
very characteristic of the tree.
Even though it's a feature thatcan look quite different from
species to species, there'scertain characteristics that
will only happen in that onespecies and And so that is what
(10:24):
I like to learn are those keypoints of identification.
Like I know when I'm walking upto a black cherry, that burnt
potato chip-like bark, I'm notseeing on any other tree in our
area.
Or when I'm walking up to paperbirch and I'm seeing that white
papery bark that's peeling inthese large curls, I know that
that's not happening on anyother tree in the area.
(10:44):
And then from there, from thebark or from that characteristic
main feature, I go to the morenuanced features that I'm not
sure you know, if the leavesmight look like other trees, but
I can check my work that way.
So I'll start with the simplestas I begin tree identification
and work my way up to the harderones.
Now, as a forester, I like tocheck myself in the woods, so
(11:05):
I'll start with the hardestpiece of identification for me.
So maybe I'll look at a leafthat looks like three other
different tree leaves, and I'llsee if I can guess based on
looking at the leaf, or based onthe bud in winter.
And then maybe I'll usesomething more obvious, like
bark, to check my work.
SPEAKER_01 (11:20):
Now you're just flexing.
SPEAKER_00 (11:22):
It comes Anyone can do it.
Anyone can do it, James.
Well,
SPEAKER_01 (11:25):
hopefully after they watch Tree Minute with Giovanna,
they will be able to do it.
SPEAKER_00 (11:28):
Yeah, I'm happy to do it.
And I'm happy that as wecontinue the series, we'll go
into different seasons and showcharacteristic times for those
trees.
Maybe when we get to winter,we'll start to look at buds a
little bit more and that'sgetting even more detailed.
So I'm excited.
SPEAKER_01 (11:45):
Here's a fun fact, and longtime friends of the
James Gave Instagram feed knowthis already, but every year
come October, the New YorkDepartment of Economic
Development publishes theirhighly anticipated annual fall
foliage map.
It shows when and where all theleaves are changing across the
state, and I pull out the JamesGave Instagram feed leaf watch
camera for our great leaf watchevent.
(12:08):
I point the camera at one leafevery year to watch the leaves
do their annual changing of thecolors through the experience of
that singular leaf.
It's always a different leafevery year.
It's always a very differentexperience.
Last year, it just so happenedto be the quaking aspen Giovanna
just showed us, Catskill Forest.
Now, we haven't announced theLeafwatch Leaf yet for 2025, so
(12:29):
there's still time to nominateyour favorite leaf.
We'll be making the announcementsoon.
And also, be sure to follow theJames Cave Extreme Feed at James
Cave, as well as Catskill ForestAssociation at Catskill Forest
over on Instagram.
We'll be sharing the firstepisode of Tree Minute very
soon.
Now, On to the summer books.
Where do we even begin?
(12:51):
Well, Tom Gratton is always agood place to start.
Tom is a novelist, author ofsuch books as The Recent East,
which was a New York TimesEditor's Choice, and In Tongues,
which is one of my favoritebooks of 2024.
He's been nominated for the PennHemingway Award and the Joyce
Carol Oates Prize.
But more importantly, andpossibly a career highlight for
(13:13):
Tom, is that he is the officialbook reader for the Jiffy Audio
Newsletter podcast.
That's right.
Every quarter, once a quarter,here on the show, I like to
visit my friend Tom and talk tohim about good books we should
all read this time of year.
And well, being summer now, oneof the year's biggest reading
seasons, I needed to know whattype of summer books should I
(13:33):
stock here at the Jiffy MartsReading Corner.
I mean, I only have space forfour books, so they better be
good.
And one of the many wonders ofthe Jiffy Mart is that I've got
this door here that leadsstraight into Tom's living room.
It's like a direct access.
And looking through the windowhere, it looks kind of like it's
a stormy day over at Tom's.
I hope we get there in onepiece.
(13:55):
Okay, we'll just open up thedoor here.
Let's walk through.
I hope he's expecting us.
Okay, we're here.
We're in Tom's living room.
SPEAKER_02 (14:06):
Tom, are you okay?
How are you doing?
I'm doing well.
How are you?
SPEAKER_01 (14:10):
Oh, I'm good.
I'm doing well.
Thank you so much.
I know I just jumped in here outof the blue, but I was hoping
you could talk to me aboutsummer reads.
I know that I have not beenreading that much because I've
been so busy trying to get thisJiffy Mart off the ground, but I
know you've been doing somereading, so I thought it might
be interesting to hear if thereare any good summer reads that
you have found that you mightrecommend that we stock here at
(14:32):
the Jiffy Mart reading bookaisle.
SPEAKER_02 (14:34):
Of course, I have a bunch.
I will limit it to four becauseI could talk about books for
many more hours than we have.
But yeah, so Summer Reads, Ithink there are so many books
that came out recently that aregreat.
Some of those will be myrecommendations.
Some of them will be books thatare a couple years older because
I think it's sometimes nice togo back and see the books that
(14:56):
people maybe have missed.
But the first one istechnically, we are recording
this the first day of july sopride is over but i think
obviously you don't just readqueer books in june unless
you're a heathen my firstrecommendation is a really
amazing book called tramps likeus by joe westmoreland it just
it came out originally in theearly 2000s was reissued last
(15:19):
month by fsg disclaimer it is mypublisher They asked me to write
a blurb for it, which is how Ifound out about the book.
But I became obsessed with it,and I've become sort of a
proselytizer for this book.
SPEAKER_01 (15:32):
I love it.
So MSG.
SPEAKER_02 (15:34):
For our stress, Drew.
Sorry.
Oh, yes.
I was speaking in publishingparlance, as if everyone knows
what that means.
And as I said, it was for ourstress, and Drew reissued it,
which some publishers have beendoing lately.
Books they felt like they werepublished maybe 15, 20 years
ago, but feel like importantbooks.
pieces that need a little moreattention.
(15:55):
And so I really appreciate thatcertain publishers, including
for our stress through doesthat.
So it is a queer coming of agenovel that begins with a young
man living the narrator livingin Kansas.
And it's kind of a road tripnovel too.
So he ends up in New Orleans fora while and then in New York and
San Francisco.
And what was really interestingabout it is a lot of it takes
(16:16):
place in the early 70s throughthe early 80s.
So it's really that periodbetween The Stonewall Riots and
the AIDS crisis is just...
The intensity of that is justunfolding as the book ends.
But it's this sort of spacebetween that.
I think there's so muchunderstandably fiction about the
(16:36):
80s and the AIDS crisis andqueerness dealing pre-Stonewall.
And so I think just the factthat he focuses on that is
really interesting.
But it's also, it's just areally well-told story.
He...
What I really loved about it,there's a real directness to his
writing.
It feels really unadorned.
It feels like if you have afriend who's just really smart
and interesting telling you agreat story.
(16:59):
So there's not a lot of flowerylanguage.
It just feels like a reallylived-in story.
And thinking about Edwin White,it feels a lot like some of his
early work, which felt both...
like a historical artifact, butalso this really incredibly
moving story about being a youngqueer person in the world.
And I think one of the things Ijust loved about it is this
protagonist is who we followthrough this world through
(17:21):
falling in love and having hisheart broken and the beginning
of this illness that reallydecimates his friends and his
community.
But he's just such a smart,thoughtful character for us to
follow.
And he's this really interestingcharacter combination of really
self-aware, but also kind ofguileless, and there are moments
(17:41):
of selfishness, but he's alsoreally lovable and really
altruistic, and it gives it areal authenticity.
It almost feels memoiristic,even though it's a novel,
because it just feels likesomeone's life unfolding.
And also, it was really movingbecause, in this phrase, chosen
family is really overused in theworld now, and I think it's now
become, I don't know, it feelslike it's lost what it really
(18:03):
means, but especially a lot ofqueer people then and still now
have to, that's family for themis often chosen family.
And this group of people sort ofnavigating the world and just
figuring it out and having lotsof sex and fun, but also feeling
a lot of sadness and, and theworld just changing in such
dramatic ways for them and howthey sort of try to survive
(18:26):
when, when survival for them isby no means a foregone, foregone
conclusion.
It just, it really, um, It's areally moving book, and I think
any reader who likescoming-of-age stories, queer
stories, stories about love andfiguring yourself out and kind
of sexy books, I think it's aperfect fit for anyone who
would, for that.
(18:48):
Called Tramps Like Us by JoWestmoreland.
It's a really beautiful book.
SPEAKER_01 (18:52):
Feels like a story of today.
SPEAKER_02 (18:54):
Yeah, it does.
I mean, that's the thing.
I think the way the friendshipsevolve in the story and...
and how he just comes tounderstand himself in the world
feels just really universal.
And I mean, he is, he does startin, I think he's late teens or
early twenties at the beginningof the book, but it goes for,
you know, 15 years.
So it's, but so you really, itis a story you watch someone
(19:16):
grow up and someone who isreally just compelling and You
have a lot of, I have had a lotof love for this character by
the end.
And I think that's when youjust, when the book ends and
you're like, I will miss thisperson.
And that's something that Ithought was really remarkable
about it.
SPEAKER_01 (19:30):
Okay, what else do we have?
SPEAKER_02 (19:32):
I'm a big short story reader.
So, and I think you can readthem in any season, including
summer.
And I've also been thinkingabout, since our last book
conversation a few months ago,There are so many amazing
writers in the Hudson Valley,either who live here or write
about this area.
And I've gotten to know many ofthem or just know their work.
(19:52):
And so I thought, especiallysince we are in the Hudson
Valley, it's nice to reallyfocus on at least one writer
who's from our orbit.
So this is a short storycollection, the most recent
story collection by the writerPaul Yoon.
It's called The Hive and theHoney.
And it's an amazing book.
It did...
(20:12):
I think I've talked about thisbefore, probably in our last
conversation, that short storycollections don't often get a
lot of attention.
This one got a good amount.
It won the 2024 Story Prize,which is basically the biggest
short story prize in the US.
And Time Magazine said it wasone of the 10 best books of that
year.
And there's a real reason forit.
It's seven stories.
And there's incredible range inhis work.
(20:35):
He often writes about charactersin the Korean diaspora, but...
Some stories take place hundredsof years before.
They take place in differentparts of the world, really
different experiences.
And each story, you think youknow what it's about or going to
be about.
And then he moves in a directionthat totally upends what you're
expecting and makes the storiesmore emotional, more surprising.
(20:59):
He writes just really beautiful,flawed, complicated characters.
And there's a real delicacy tohis stories and to his
sentences.
It doesn't mean that thestories...
a lightness to them.
He writes about these very bigtopics, including, you know, of
violence and immigration and allthese things.
But there's just, he can boildown a really complicated moment
(21:21):
to sort of this one perfectimage.
So it's almost like he's like aminiaturist, whatever I think.
So even though many of thestories are quite long, it just
feels like he can distill awhole life into a 20-page story,
which is a real feat.
And there's a real range to eachstory.
But if you are thinking aboutyou're a short story reader and
you really love beautifullanguage and complex characters
(21:45):
i would recommend reading paulyoon also one of the stories in
the book i have um right here isee it over there i have it here
i think it's the last storywhich is a gorgeous story it was
in the new yorker a few yearsago and it's called valley of
the moon and it's an amazingit's it is the story where it is
a whole life of severalcharacters that somehow he packs
(22:07):
into 25 pages in a way thatdoesn't feel rushed or any, it
just, it feels like a completeworld and these lives.
And so that's in the New Yorker.
He also had a story reallyrecently, maybe four or five
months ago called war dogs inthe New Yorker.
So if you think you might wantto read this, if you have a New
Yorker subscription, you canread those there even better.
They, the New Yorker has a,podcast called The Writer's
(22:29):
Voice for each every week whenthey publish a story the writer
actually reads that story on thepodcast so if you have any sort
of streaming platform Paul'salso a great reader so you can
read this Story Valley of theMoon in the New Yorker if you
wanted to but I guarantee onceyou read it or listen to it you
will want to read the wholething but for short story heads
this is really what you shouldbe reading right now.
SPEAKER_01 (22:52):
So short stories do you feel like I wonder sometimes
I think maybe a short storycollection could also be seen as
like a concept album orsomething like maybe each track
or each short story could beseen as an under some sort of
other larger concept.
Do you think that way aboutshort story collections or how
do you look at short storycollections and how would you
think of Paul's sort of bookhere fitting into something like
(23:12):
that?
SPEAKER_02 (23:12):
I mean, I think in a way there are there are thematic
threads.
It's not like there are somestory collections like
Kitteridge by Elizabeth Stroutor or Lost in the City by Edward
P.
Jones, which the former is thischaracter appears in some way in
every single story.
And then the second one, it alltakes place in one neighborhood
(23:33):
in DC.
So they have much more, theirorganizing principles are much
clearer.
This is, this doesn't have that,but I think just in terms of
people, there are themes aboutsurviving in a complicated world
and self-discovery and sort of,and just how to sort of make a
life.
So I think his is more of aconcept album or, or, it feels a
(23:56):
little more diffuse in terms ofthe connections, but they all
work really nicely together.
And I think also somecollections, because it's quite
short and the stories are, youcan really read a couple in a
day, no problem.
It's something that you sort ofare carried along with really
easily.
So I think some collectionsreally do have much more of a
(24:16):
clear organizing principle.
Whereas this, I think it's justhim exploring different
characters in the world and, andyou know, stories from hundreds
of years ago versus storieshappening right now.
And there are connectionsbetween them, these subtle
connections between thesecharacters and sort of how they
figure out the world that Ithink is really beautiful.
SPEAKER_01 (24:33):
Okay, what's next on your list?
Is it another
SPEAKER_02 (24:35):
Paul by any chance?
It is not a Paul, it is a Liz.
So I, as you can perhaps tell, Ioften read sort of these quiet,
introspective literary books,but I was, sometimes I get, I
get a hankering for somethingdifferent.
And I'd seen this book before,All over the place.
And a lot of people said it wasreally great.
(24:55):
It's called The God of the Woodsby Liz Moore.
It came out last year.
I believe it would technicallybe labeled a
crime-slash-thriller book.
I don't always know if thosedistinctions or siloing
literature is that useful,because I do think that it's a
really well-told story and...
It's one of those books youjust, once you start it, she's
(25:18):
really good at not letting youstop because she...
Is it a page turner?
It is a page turner.
It is one of those books whereI'd finish a chapter, I was
like, well, now I can go to bed,or now I can brush my teeth, or
now I can do the dishes, and thechapter would end.
And I'd be like, oh, Liz Moore,what have you done to me?
I have to keep reading.
It takes place in theAdirondacks in 1975.
There is a summer camp therethat is...
(25:41):
owned by a wealthy family whohas a big summer house just up
the hill from this camp.
And when the book begins, thewealthy family, the main couple,
their 13-year-old daughter who'sbeen at that camp, one night
they wake up and she hasdisappeared.
And so it becomes this story ofthis person's disappearance.
But what I thought was so welldone in this book is that I
(26:03):
think there are 10 or 12 pointof views.
She moves from point of view,everyone from the parents to...
the daughter who's disappearedto one of the camp counselors.
And so because of that, you getsuch a full picture of this
world.
And in doing that too, there'sso much tension even before this
disappearance.
This wealthy family who summersin the Adirondacks is surrounded
(26:26):
by this town and this communityof working class people who are
just struggling to make endsmeet.
And they really survive byserving the needs of the wealthy
people who come for three monthsout of the year.
So there's this inherent tensionthere that I think is done
really well.
Additionally, one of thecharacters, probably my favorite
characters, is a woman namedJudy, who is a police
(26:46):
investigator.
What's really fascinating isthat she was in the first class
of state troopers to graduatefrom the academy where they
accepted women.
And then it's a few years later,and now she's the first female
investigator for the New YorkState Police.
She's also quite young and Andbecause of this, she is just
navigating so much on all theends of sort of people
(27:06):
dismissing her, people assumingthat she's a secretary or
whatever it is, or just they'reassuming that she doesn't have
the authority she has.
So she is a really, really welldone character, really
fascinating, really smartlydone.
And just sort of, that was 50years ago.
So 50 years ago, that was thefirst time women were allowed to
be state troopers in this state,which isn't a long time ago,
(27:27):
especially for those of us whoare middle-aged.
So I found all that reallyinteresting and the way it's
about class dynamics and genderand, and sort of just the
insiders of the outsiders, thiscommunity.
And I think she perhaps is socompelling because she lives a
few hours away.
So she is both an outside, she'san outsider in all these
(27:49):
different ways.
Also the other detectives sortof don't give her the time of
day because she is a woman.
And so, It feels like a KateWinslet vehicle.
SPEAKER_01 (27:57):
Do you think about, like, thinking about this when
you're reading these?
Do you cast them by any
SPEAKER_02 (28:02):
way?
I mean, I think the character'sname is Judy.
Well, actually, I think herparents are Polish immigrants,
so her real name is Judita, butshe goes by Judy because
Americans can't pronounce namesthat are...
complicated sometimes.
So she's, I think, maybe 25 or26.
So I think it would be maybeKate Winslet of 20 years ago
(28:22):
could have done it.
But I think she also could playone of the other characters.
I mean...
Oh,
SPEAKER_01 (28:25):
maybe like a Saoirse Ronan.
SPEAKER_02 (28:26):
Saoirse Ronan, for sure.
Anyway, so it's really welldone.
It's really surprising.
It is a total page-turner.
And I thought it was really wellwritten, too.
And I think oftentimes crime andthrillers, they don't get credit
for the images and thesentences.
And I think it's also...
there's really strong writingtoo, in addition to really
strong characterization and afantastic plot.
(28:49):
And so it was just one of thosebooks I was kind of addicted to
and I couldn't stop reading.
It's a longer book becausethere's a lot happening in it
rather than the Paul Yoon book,but it's totally worth it.
And it doesn't ever feel like...
It's dragging or it's too long.
When you get towards the end,you're like, wait, how is this
going to end?
And that's a great feeling whenyou haven't figured out the end
and you still want to know.
(29:09):
So I think she's so great withplot.
She's so great with characterand complicating the narrative.
So it is a quintessential summerread because it's fun and plotty
and dark.
And it takes place in the summerin the Adirondacks.
Oh, that's so relaxing.
Is that bad for the recordingthat we're listening
SPEAKER_01 (29:28):
to?
That's actually quite a vibe,especially because we're talking
about a mystery.
We are,
SPEAKER_02 (29:34):
and I think there are
SPEAKER_01 (29:44):
some thunderstorms there.
to The Unseen World and The Godof the Woods, which we just
learned about from Tom'sselections of Summer Reads 2025.
(30:06):
But what does it mean, Tom?
Because your book has also beenoptioned, is that correct?
SPEAKER_02 (30:10):
Yeah, my second book has been optioned.
So it can mean lots of things,and oftentimes it ends up being
just a nice possibility thatdoesn't become anything, which
I'm saying that because I'mtrying to not get my hopes up.
But to be optioned essentiallyis a production company or a
director or sometimes awell-known screenwriter is
(30:32):
interested enough in yourmaterial that they pay you a
small amount of money for themto have the exclusive film and
television rights for usually 18months and then after those 18
months they can either extend itfor another year or so or if
they move to if they're movingforward in terms of going into
production or pre-production,then the author starts to
actually make proper money.
(30:52):
So an option typically is just asmall amount of money they give
you so that you can't offer therights to anyone else for that
time period.
And my agent was reminding me,because I got a little...
in a tizzy about being optioned.
And I was like, and she was, andshe reminded me that most of her
authors have been options andvery.
So, I mean, I've been optionedby a director who is an indie
(31:14):
director and is a big fan of thebook, reached out to me after
reading it, not through anyagent.
This is in tongues, right?
And he and his screenwriter areworking on a screenplay now.
So, and he even said to me, youhave a better chance of me
making it because I don't just,because big production companies
also, I think what they do isthey option 20 different
properties.
I, I hate calling a book aproperty, by the way, but that's
(31:35):
what they refer to them as.
They would call it content.
No.
20 different books, and maybethey go forward maybe with one.
So I think it's often just togive themselves some options.
They option for options, right?
SPEAKER_01 (31:51):
I guess it makes sense now when you put it that
way.
So
SPEAKER_02 (31:54):
we'll see.
I mean, I don't...
SPEAKER_01 (31:55):
Now, are you the writer?
So I know that there are somewho kind of write for a mass
audience, knowing full well thatthey're most likely to get
optioned to get Shondalandtreatment or to go on Netflix or
something.
Do you think about that whenyou're writing anything?
No,
SPEAKER_02 (32:10):
because apparently I write sort of weird people
who...
often make strange decisions.
And I, and I like stories thatthere is some closure, but not,
but it's, it's still there.
There's still sort of anopenness to an end of the story.
So I don't, I definitely don'twrite thinking, Ooh, I'm writing
(32:31):
this to be a movie.
I know.
I think anytime you write tryingto make the book something other
than what you sort of want it tobe, then I think readers can
tell too.
I think there are some writers,I don't know, Liz Moore is an
amazing, she writes great plotand characters and I wonder if
the kind of, I think the kind ofwriting she does, this very sort
of story forward, plot drivenstuff is easier to translate.
(32:54):
So I still don't, I don'timagine she was, she sits there
and says, who will play the leadin this story I haven't written
yet?
I don't think she's, I mean,maybe she does.
I've never met her.
But I think at least for me,It's like a lovely possibility,
but there's a worry, too,because the book is so its
thing, and then I think changingit to a different medium is
(33:15):
going to just change it.
SPEAKER_01 (33:16):
So that's great.
Liz Moore, Love, God of theWoods, Liz Moore.
So what's next?
SPEAKER_02 (33:20):
Okay, and I'm probably going to butcher this
writer's name, and I apologizeto him.
The novel's called Perfection.
It's a novella, actually.
Vincenzo Latronico, I believe ishow you say his name.
It was translated by SophieHughes from Italian.
It is a novel about two expats,a man and woman who are romantic
partners, living in Berlin inthe early 2010s.
(33:45):
We don't know exactly wherethey're from.
They say they're from a countryin southern Europe.
Of course, because the writer'sItalian, I kept assuming it was
Italy, but they never actuallysay that.
Anyway, but it's a particulartime in Berlin, a couple decades
after the wall fell inreunification, but...
I mean, now if you go to Berlin,which I find fascinating, you
will go to a cafe and you ordersomething in German and they'll
(34:06):
say, this is an English-onlycafe.
Because it's such aninternational city now, which as
someone who speaks German, I geta little on my high horse about
that.
Oh, you speak German?
I do, yeah, because my mom wasGerman, so I spoke German
growing up as a kid.
So I get all excited to go inthere and order a coffee and
they're like, English, please.
(34:27):
And I'm like, ugh.
SPEAKER_01 (34:28):
Anyway, so.
You want to go in and try toshow off?
Yeah.
Or
SPEAKER_02 (34:33):
to show that I'm not just one of those Americans who
assumes everyone will kowtow tomy limited language abilities.
Okay, back to the book.
Even though they live in Berlinand their group of friends is
largely international, there arevery few Germans in their group
of friends, they all workonline.
This couple is graphicdesigners.
(34:54):
And it's really a book about theinternet.
I'm pausing when I say thatbecause even saying that, it
makes it sound reallyuninteresting, but it's a really
well done, really fascinatingbook.
But it's about sort of the waythat sort of everything is so
curated online.
So even whenever this couplegoes away, they will rent their
apartment.
And so it begins with them sortof staging the apartment for all
(35:16):
the pictures for Airbnb.
So it's basically this fantasyof curation and the internet
that we live in and sort of howwe think we can sort of curate
our lives.
SPEAKER_01 (35:24):
Almost like a presentation of self, like how
do we want to be perceived?
Yeah,
SPEAKER_02 (35:28):
it's like a faux authenticity.
And so the novella is, it'squite satirical in a lot of ways
and sort of poking fun of...
how everyone's like, you need togo to this restaurant and get
this one thing, how we fetishizethings.
So we fetishize a restaurant ora kind of food or a place.
And in fetishizing things, sortof often what is amazing about
(35:48):
that food or place or thing getslost.
It's also, as the book goes onand, you know, the Syrian
refugee crisis is happening, sothe complicated things happening
in the larger world startseeping into this community,
sort of you see sort of howsmall and precious in a kind of
(36:09):
derogatory way that this worldis that they are trying to
survive in and also for them itstarts to feel kind of hollow
for this couple as well it'squite a funny book actually one
thing and one of the reasons I'msort of obsessed with it there
are very few scenes and there isno dialogue in the entire book
And I don't understand how hedid this.
He really breaks so many of thequote unquote rules of fiction
(36:33):
writing in this piece.
It's so much describing spacesor them moving through spaces or
going to some party or thinkingthat this party is the thing
that's going to make them feelwhatever the thing is that they
feel like they're lacking.
And
SPEAKER_01 (36:46):
I love that for a summer book selection, because a
lot of beach reads are kind oflike 95% dialogue.
You know what I mean?
It's all conversation.
SPEAKER_02 (36:55):
No.
And this is, and also just theway he, the details he picks is
really smart, both in sort ofsatirizing this world, but also
there are moments too, where youare kind of seduced by the world
of we, as we all do, when yousee something on Airbnb and
you're like this, this, this,little house on a cliff will
save me first of all and then ifyou rent it and you get there
(37:18):
you realize next to the cliff is17 gas stations or whatever or
all the things so there's thiswhole idea of this as the title
is a perfection that we're goingfor that is this sort of false
promise of making our lives feelmeaningful and full so it's a
really smart book it's a book ofnow that I think that really
sort of critiques our world in away though what I did really
(37:40):
appreciate is it didn't feellike it was mocking the main
characters.
They're sort of stuck in a worldthat we're all stuck in and
sometimes it feels emptier thanthey wish it would.
I mean, one thing aboutperfection that's interesting is
the internet has made the worldsmaller in a lot of ways.
And so the fact that they'rehanging out, they're going to
dinner parties, and every personat the dinner party is from a
(38:00):
different country, and they'reall, and sort of the way that
English has become the defaultlanguage for all these itinerant
digital nomad communities.
So, yeah, it's a reallyfascinating, smart book, and
it's another book you can flythrough.
I think of the four books Irecommended, I think this book
and Paul's book are really quickreads, and the other two are
(38:23):
perhaps a little moresubstantial, but they're all
really compelling and it's just,and I also want more people to
read it because I want people, Iwant to talk to people about how
he pulled it off becausesometimes as a writer, you read
something and like this worksand I don't know how it works or
why it works.
And that is really exciting.
And then makes me feel a littlelike, how can I figure this out?
(38:45):
But so I just want to talk tomore people about it because I
think it's so well done.
SPEAKER_01 (38:50):
I've got Tom's summer reading list in the show
notes to this episode.
And I've also got an article onthe website at thejiffy.xyz.
You know, also Tom and I talkedabout a lot of things.
We also talked about blurbs.
It's one of my favorite literarytopics, the art and craft of
writing a good blurb about anovel.
It's an audio exclusive thatI'll share just for premium
(39:11):
members over in the community.
You can upgrade to get perkslike audio exclusives.
It supports this work, and it'sall very fun.
The community is a thrivingplace, and I hope you enjoy the
stuff that I provide over there.
Okay, well, question on thetopic of blurbs.
What would your blurb be aboutthe Jiffy Audio Newsletter
podcast?
(39:31):
Let me know, because you canshoot me a text.
Send me your blurb of thepodcast.
There's a link in the show notesfor shooting me a text, and I
think that's it for thisepisode.
And I'll be back in my nextepisode as part three in the
grab bag series to see wherewill the grab bag of goods take
(39:55):
us next.
Until then, I'll see you over onthe Instagram feed.
Hello and welcome to another episode of the Jiffy
Audio Newsletter podcast, apodcast about upstate New York
that takes you places like righthere.
We're still right in the grabbag of goods.
If you remember in our lastepisode, we took a tour of the
new Jiffy Mart, the onlinebodega of the James Cave
Instagram feed.
That's me.
(00:20):
I'm James Cave.
We saw the bodega cat room.
We looked at the cash register.
We visited my office and welearned about how to approach
writing land acknowledge for ourorganizations.
Now, this is part two in theGrab Bag series, celebrating the
grand opening of the Jiffy Mart.
There's just so much to seehere.
This is where I have the premiumsubscriber community.
(00:42):
It's got premium content likebehind the scenes footage, audio
exclusives, access to JMagazine, the style magazine of
the feed.
It all helps to support thispodcast and all the other
projects I'm doing around here.
In fact, the Jiffy Mart is openright now.
If you'd like to shop around,you can find it at thejiffy.com.
or you can find a link to it inmy show notes.
(01:04):
And you can join the membershipright there as well.
It all helps to support thisstuff.
But now back to the tour.
Over here, as you see, the booksection is completely empty.
I have no idea what to put here.
There's just too many books.
So later in this episode, we'regoing to visit novelist Tom
Grattan at his house to see whathe's been reading so far this
summer.
But first, I want to show yousomething.
Over here against this wall,this is the forest refrigerator
(01:26):
of the woods.
This refrigerator, believe it ornot, When we open it up, it
takes us straight to the heartof the Catskill Mountains.
It's like a portal.
The problem with the forestrefrigerator is that I have no
idea what I'm looking at.
When I open it up, there's justso many trees in there.
I can't tell a tree from a tree.
And that's a problem becauseI've started a series over on
(01:47):
the Instagram feed called TreeMinute.
It's all about trees.
Here's the story.
It was about 66 weeks ago.
It was the depths of winter.
When I looked outside in themorning light and I I saw the
trees in the woods around myhouse just glistening like they
were encrusted in diamonds.
They were completely frozen topto bottom.
Every leafless branch reflectingthe morning sun like a forest of
(02:10):
glass.
It was really neat and so Ithought, I've got to make some
content out of this.
I like trees.
We should start a series abouttrees.
So it became the first episodeand then the only episode of a
brand new series called TreeMinute.
Here, I'll play that firstepisode for you right now.
It's just about one minute long.
Good morning.
(02:31):
So the trees are really frozen.
I feel like it's something thatwe should make for content.
I feel like that's what naturewants.
It wants to be seen onInstagram.
So let's go look at the frozentrees.
That's what we're doing on ourfirst episode of Tree Minute.
What happens when trees freeze?
Did you know that trees are thelargest living thing on the
(02:53):
planet?
Some trees out in California arelarger and heavier than even
blue whales.
Isn't that something?
And more than that, trees areessentially 80% water.
And of course, if all that waterwere to freeze up, trees would
be exploding all over the place.
But not here, as you can see.
So what's happening?
Well, trees are softer and moreflexible than glass or metal,
(03:13):
obviously, which would burstunder the pressure of frozen
water.
And as the water expands in andaround the trees' interiors, the
tree's tissue can stretch enoughto avoid bursting, in most
cases.
And if you remember fromLeafwatch Leap 2023, the leaves
drop their leaves every year soas to reduce their need for
water.
Some trees, like maple trees,start to produce a lot of sugar
(03:36):
for the winter because when thesugar dissolves in water, it
lowers the water's freezingpoint, sort of like a natural
antifreeze.
This is why a lot of people liketo tap into maple trees to make
syrup.
Isn't that something?
Well, this concludes thisepisode So that's the idea.
(03:57):
Tree Minute.
Clearly, I think trees areimportant.
I think they deserve space onthe James Cave Instagram feed.
But the thing about that firstTree Minute episode is that I
got most of my facts completelywrong.
So...
If I was really to understandtrees and really make space for
tree storytelling here on theJames Cavy Screen Feed, I
thought it'd be important tobring in an expert who can
(04:20):
really talk to us about treesfrom a place of knowledge and
accuracy.
So here we go.
As I open up the treerefrigerator to the woods and
walk through this cooler,transporting us to the middle of
the Catskill Mountains, we'regoing to bring back Tree Minute,
but this time in partnershipwith the Catskill Forest
Association, specifically theireducation forester Giovanna
(04:41):
D'Angelo who looks like she'salready out there identifying
some trees for us.
Hey, let's go catch up with herand see what she's looking at.
SPEAKER_00 (04:47):
Okay, I'm going to...
Let's see if we can identifythat older tree, and that'll
decide which one I talk aboutright now.
All right, so we're here withyellow birch, or Betula
alleghaniensis of the Betulaceaefamily.
So yellow birch...
(05:08):
is very distinctive in its bark.
It's coming off in these thinpapery curls.
The bark is exfoliating.
It's also reflective with thisunique bronze yellowish golden
color to it that is unique toyellow birch.
Paper birch also exfoliates, butit exfoliates in larger sheets
and the colors are different.
SPEAKER_01 (05:28):
What makes birch so special,
SPEAKER_00 (05:32):
huh?
Well, to me, what makes yellowbirch and also black birch so
special is the winter greensmell and taste in the twigs and
the roots.
SPEAKER_01 (05:41):
That's really cool.
It looks like minty.
SPEAKER_00 (05:43):
Let me see if I can...
That might be a baby leaf overthere.
Yes! Okay, there we go.
This, though, this is blackbirch.
Smell that.
No, James.
No, James, smell
SPEAKER_01 (05:56):
it.
UNKNOWN (05:56):
Oh.
SPEAKER_00 (05:57):
It smells so good.
SPEAKER_01 (05:58):
Whoa,
SPEAKER_00 (06:00):
isn't that insane?
They were one of my favoritetrees when I learned them
because I was like, no way.
I was like, there's just no way.
Yeah, yellow birch is one of thetrees where I'm often like, who
made this?
Like who made all of this?
Who put winter green tasting,smelling compounds in birch?
I love it.
So at the Catskill ForestAssociation, we are a nonprofit
(06:23):
organization, and we rely solelyon educating our members, and
through that, getting thepopulation around here to
steward their forested land.
So we rely mainly on educationto do that through hands-on
programs, through workshops,publications online, as well as
our newsletter.
Yeah, so I do a variety ofdifferent things.
(06:45):
We fill a lot of niches forsmall landowners, everything
from pruning and grafting appletrees to, you know, habitat
cutting for wildlife andmushroom inoculation.
SPEAKER_01 (06:54):
For me, like I have five acres of my place and I've
got a range of trees.
Why is it helpful for me to beable to identify them and
understand what they do and justknow them a little bit better?
Why do you think that'simportant?
SPEAKER_00 (07:06):
So there's no one reason that fits everything.
everyone, but trees can beuseful to everyone and to anyone
for a variety of differentgoals.
Like maybe you're heating yourplace with wood and maybe you
want to get that wood from yourproperty because it's coming
from someone's wood.
So why not yours?
You know, you want to know whichtrees to cut.
Maybe you want to know thehealth of the trees so you can
pick the best trees to cut.
(07:27):
You know, different firewoodwill burn differently, like
different tree species burndifferently.
So you'd want to know how toidentify them so you can tell
which trees to take out.
So you're not burning white pinein your fireplace, you know?
We're here with Quaking Aspen orTrembling Aspen, Populus
tremuloides of the Salicaceaefamily or the Willow and Poplar
(07:47):
family.
You can tell it's Quaking Aspen.
It's got this very lightcharacteristic bark.
It's a light gray, almost whitein some places.
It's very smooth, but it's gotthese fissures, these light
fissures going up and down.
It also has chevrons, darkchevrons or eye-like patterns
along the bark.
If you go up on the tree and youtake a look at the twig, you'll
(08:09):
notice that the leaves ofquaking aspen are alternately
arranged on the stem, meaningthey come off alternately on
alternate points, notoppositely.
If we take a look at the leaf,you'll notice what's unique is
that the petiole or the stem ofthe leaf is flat, meaning I
can't twirl it in my fingers.
This is what gives the aspen thecharacteristic tremble or quake
(08:31):
that gives it its name.
So when the wind catches it, theleaves almost look like they're
waving at you.
But really, the biggest reasonis that the trees are here next
to us every single day.
Everywhere you drive, even juststepping outside of your house,
you know, we beautify our spaceswith them.
They clean the air in ourspaces.
I think it's just generalknowledge at this point to be
(08:53):
able to tell the differencebetween a couple of species.
You don't have to be able totell every single one apart, but
just to have a general knowledgeI think is respectful to the
land and also something reallyuseful that will come in handy
in many different ways in yourlife.
SPEAKER_01 (09:07):
It is a calm day.
SPEAKER_00 (09:07):
Yeah.
It's a hot one today, andthankfully quaking aspen has a
powdery-like residue on thebark, also called a bloom, that
Native Americans would sometimesuse as sunscreen or protection
from the sun.
The bark also has salicin in it,a compound that is
anti-inflammatory, and the samecompound you find in willows,
(09:30):
also in the salicaceae family,that help with pain relief and
was the inspiration behindaspirin.
Yeah.
My hands feel nice and soft now.
SPEAKER_01 (09:41):
Because of the leaves or because
SPEAKER_00 (09:43):
of him?
Wow.
SPEAKER_01 (09:45):
Thank you, tree.
SPEAKER_00 (09:46):
Oh, look, they're going.
They're quaking.
They're quaking.
Nice.
Look at them go.
So
SPEAKER_01 (09:54):
can you talk to me about your process?
Like what's tree identification101?
How do you get started on this?
SPEAKER_00 (10:01):
I think I do have a process.
It can differ from person toperson depending on what they
notice.
Definitely starting up closewith a tree when you're new to
it.
So, you know, looking at thebark first, sometimes bark is
very characteristic of the tree.
Even though it's a feature thatcan look quite different from
species to species, there'scertain characteristics that
will only happen in that onespecies and And so that is what
(10:24):
I like to learn are those keypoints of identification.
Like I know when I'm walking upto a black cherry, that burnt
potato chip-like bark, I'm notseeing on any other tree in our
area.
Or when I'm walking up to paperbirch and I'm seeing that white
papery bark that's peeling inthese large curls, I know that
that's not happening on anyother tree in the area.
(10:44):
And then from there, from thebark or from that characteristic
main feature, I go to the morenuanced features that I'm not
sure you know, if the leavesmight look like other trees, but
I can check my work that way.
So I'll start with the simplestas I begin tree identification
and work my way up to the harderones.
Now, as a forester, I like tocheck myself in the woods, so
(11:05):
I'll start with the hardestpiece of identification for me.
So maybe I'll look at a leafthat looks like three other
different tree leaves, and I'llsee if I can guess based on
looking at the leaf, or based onthe bud in winter.
And then maybe I'll usesomething more obvious, like
bark, to check my work.
SPEAKER_01 (11:20):
Now you're just flexing.
SPEAKER_00 (11:22):
It comes Anyone can do it.
Anyone can do it, James.
Well,
SPEAKER_01 (11:25):
hopefully after they watch Tree Minute with Giovanna,
they will be able to do it.
SPEAKER_00 (11:28):
Yeah, I'm happy to do it.
And I'm happy that as wecontinue the series, we'll go
into different seasons and showcharacteristic times for those
trees.
Maybe when we get to winter,we'll start to look at buds a
little bit more and that'sgetting even more detailed.
So I'm excited.
SPEAKER_01 (11:45):
Here's a fun fact, and longtime friends of the
James Gave Instagram feed knowthis already, but every year
come October, the New YorkDepartment of Economic
Development publishes theirhighly anticipated annual fall
foliage map.
It shows when and where all theleaves are changing across the
state, and I pull out the JamesGave Instagram feed leaf watch
camera for our great leaf watchevent.
(12:08):
I point the camera at one leafevery year to watch the leaves
do their annual changing of thecolors through the experience of
that singular leaf.
It's always a different leafevery year.
It's always a very differentexperience.
Last year, it just so happenedto be the quaking aspen Giovanna
just showed us, Catskill Forest.
Now, we haven't announced theLeafwatch Leaf yet for 2025, so
(12:29):
there's still time to nominateyour favorite leaf.
We'll be making the announcementsoon.
And also, be sure to follow theJames Cave Extreme Feed at James
Cave, as well as Catskill ForestAssociation at Catskill Forest
over on Instagram.
We'll be sharing the firstepisode of Tree Minute very
soon.
Now, On to the summer books.
Where do we even begin?
(12:51):
Well, Tom Gratton is always agood place to start.
Tom is a novelist, author ofsuch books as The Recent East,
which was a New York TimesEditor's Choice, and In Tongues,
which is one of my favoritebooks of 2024.
He's been nominated for the PennHemingway Award and the Joyce
Carol Oates Prize.
But more importantly, andpossibly a career highlight for
(13:13):
Tom, is that he is the officialbook reader for the Jiffy Audio
Newsletter podcast.
That's right.
Every quarter, once a quarter,here on the show, I like to
visit my friend Tom and talk tohim about good books we should
all read this time of year.
And well, being summer now, oneof the year's biggest reading
seasons, I needed to know whattype of summer books should I
(13:33):
stock here at the Jiffy MartsReading Corner.
I mean, I only have space forfour books, so they better be
good.
And one of the many wonders ofthe Jiffy Mart is that I've got
this door here that leadsstraight into Tom's living room.
It's like a direct access.
And looking through the windowhere, it looks kind of like it's
a stormy day over at Tom's.
I hope we get there in onepiece.
(13:55):
Okay, we'll just open up thedoor here.
Let's walk through.
I hope he's expecting us.
Okay, we're here.
We're in Tom's living room.
SPEAKER_02 (14:06):
Tom, are you okay?
How are you doing?
I'm doing well.
How are you?
SPEAKER_01 (14:10):
Oh, I'm good.
I'm doing well.
Thank you so much.
I know I just jumped in here outof the blue, but I was hoping
you could talk to me aboutsummer reads.
I know that I have not beenreading that much because I've
been so busy trying to get thisJiffy Mart off the ground, but I
know you've been doing somereading, so I thought it might
be interesting to hear if thereare any good summer reads that
you have found that you mightrecommend that we stock here at
(14:32):
the Jiffy Mart reading bookaisle.
SPEAKER_02 (14:34):
Of course, I have a bunch.
I will limit it to four becauseI could talk about books for
many more hours than we have.
But yeah, so Summer Reads, Ithink there are so many books
that came out recently that aregreat.
Some of those will be myrecommendations.
Some of them will be books thatare a couple years older because
I think it's sometimes nice togo back and see the books that
(14:56):
people maybe have missed.
But the first one istechnically, we are recording
this the first day of july sopride is over but i think
obviously you don't just readqueer books in june unless
you're a heathen my firstrecommendation is a really
amazing book called tramps likeus by joe westmoreland it just
it came out originally in theearly 2000s was reissued last
(15:19):
month by fsg disclaimer it is mypublisher They asked me to write
a blurb for it, which is how Ifound out about the book.
But I became obsessed with it,and I've become sort of a
proselytizer for this book.
SPEAKER_01 (15:32):
I love it.
So MSG.
SPEAKER_02 (15:34):
For our stress, Drew.
Sorry.
Oh, yes.
I was speaking in publishingparlance, as if everyone knows
what that means.
And as I said, it was for ourstress, and Drew reissued it,
which some publishers have beendoing lately.
Books they felt like they werepublished maybe 15, 20 years
ago, but feel like importantbooks.
pieces that need a little moreattention.
(15:55):
And so I really appreciate thatcertain publishers, including
for our stress through doesthat.
So it is a queer coming of agenovel that begins with a young
man living the narrator livingin Kansas.
And it's kind of a road tripnovel too.
So he ends up in New Orleans fora while and then in New York and
San Francisco.
And what was really interestingabout it is a lot of it takes
(16:16):
place in the early 70s throughthe early 80s.
So it's really that periodbetween The Stonewall Riots and
the AIDS crisis is just...
The intensity of that is justunfolding as the book ends.
But it's this sort of spacebetween that.
I think there's so muchunderstandably fiction about the
(16:36):
80s and the AIDS crisis andqueerness dealing pre-Stonewall.
And so I think just the factthat he focuses on that is
really interesting.
But it's also, it's just areally well-told story.
He...
What I really loved about it,there's a real directness to his
writing.
It feels really unadorned.
It feels like if you have afriend who's just really smart
and interesting telling you agreat story.
(16:59):
So there's not a lot of flowerylanguage.
It just feels like a reallylived-in story.
And thinking about Edwin White,it feels a lot like some of his
early work, which felt both...
like a historical artifact, butalso this really incredibly
moving story about being a youngqueer person in the world.
And I think one of the things Ijust loved about it is this
protagonist is who we followthrough this world through
(17:21):
falling in love and having hisheart broken and the beginning
of this illness that reallydecimates his friends and his
community.
But he's just such a smart,thoughtful character for us to
follow.
And he's this really interestingcharacter combination of really
self-aware, but also kind ofguileless, and there are moments
(17:41):
of selfishness, but he's alsoreally lovable and really
altruistic, and it gives it areal authenticity.
It almost feels memoiristic,even though it's a novel,
because it just feels likesomeone's life unfolding.
And also, it was really movingbecause, in this phrase, chosen
family is really overused in theworld now, and I think it's now
become, I don't know, it feelslike it's lost what it really
(18:03):
means, but especially a lot ofqueer people then and still now
have to, that's family for themis often chosen family.
And this group of people sort ofnavigating the world and just
figuring it out and having lotsof sex and fun, but also feeling
a lot of sadness and, and theworld just changing in such
dramatic ways for them and howthey sort of try to survive
(18:26):
when, when survival for them isby no means a foregone, foregone
conclusion.
It just, it really, um, It's areally moving book, and I think
any reader who likescoming-of-age stories, queer
stories, stories about love andfiguring yourself out and kind
of sexy books, I think it's aperfect fit for anyone who
would, for that.
(18:48):
Called Tramps Like Us by JoWestmoreland.
It's a really beautiful book.
SPEAKER_01 (18:52):
Feels like a story of today.
SPEAKER_02 (18:54):
Yeah, it does.
I mean, that's the thing.
I think the way the friendshipsevolve in the story and...
and how he just comes tounderstand himself in the world
feels just really universal.
And I mean, he is, he does startin, I think he's late teens or
early twenties at the beginningof the book, but it goes for,
you know, 15 years.
So it's, but so you really, itis a story you watch someone
(19:16):
grow up and someone who isreally just compelling and You
have a lot of, I have had a lotof love for this character by
the end.
And I think that's when youjust, when the book ends and
you're like, I will miss thisperson.
And that's something that Ithought was really remarkable
about it.
SPEAKER_01 (19:30):
Okay, what else do we have?
SPEAKER_02 (19:32):
I'm a big short story reader.
So, and I think you can readthem in any season, including
summer.
And I've also been thinkingabout, since our last book
conversation a few months ago,There are so many amazing
writers in the Hudson Valley,either who live here or write
about this area.
And I've gotten to know many ofthem or just know their work.
(19:52):
And so I thought, especiallysince we are in the Hudson
Valley, it's nice to reallyfocus on at least one writer
who's from our orbit.
So this is a short storycollection, the most recent
story collection by the writerPaul Yoon.
It's called The Hive and theHoney.
And it's an amazing book.
It did...
(20:12):
I think I've talked about thisbefore, probably in our last
conversation, that short storycollections don't often get a
lot of attention.
This one got a good amount.
It won the 2024 Story Prize,which is basically the biggest
short story prize in the US.
And Time Magazine said it wasone of the 10 best books of that
year.
And there's a real reason forit.
It's seven stories.
And there's incredible range inhis work.
(20:35):
He often writes about charactersin the Korean diaspora, but...
Some stories take place hundredsof years before.
They take place in differentparts of the world, really
different experiences.
And each story, you think youknow what it's about or going to
be about.
And then he moves in a directionthat totally upends what you're
expecting and makes the storiesmore emotional, more surprising.
(20:59):
He writes just really beautiful,flawed, complicated characters.
And there's a real delicacy tohis stories and to his
sentences.
It doesn't mean that thestories...
a lightness to them.
He writes about these very bigtopics, including, you know, of
violence and immigration and allthese things.
But there's just, he can boildown a really complicated moment
(21:21):
to sort of this one perfectimage.
So it's almost like he's like aminiaturist, whatever I think.
So even though many of thestories are quite long, it just
feels like he can distill awhole life into a 20-page story,
which is a real feat.
And there's a real range to eachstory.
But if you are thinking aboutyou're a short story reader and
you really love beautifullanguage and complex characters
(21:45):
i would recommend reading paulyoon also one of the stories in
the book i have um right here isee it over there i have it here
i think it's the last storywhich is a gorgeous story it was
in the new yorker a few yearsago and it's called valley of
the moon and it's an amazingit's it is the story where it is
a whole life of severalcharacters that somehow he packs
(22:07):
into 25 pages in a way thatdoesn't feel rushed or any, it
just, it feels like a completeworld and these lives.
And so that's in the New Yorker.
He also had a story reallyrecently, maybe four or five
months ago called war dogs inthe New Yorker.
So if you think you might wantto read this, if you have a New
Yorker subscription, you canread those there even better.
They, the New Yorker has a,podcast called The Writer's
(22:29):
Voice for each every week whenthey publish a story the writer
actually reads that story on thepodcast so if you have any sort
of streaming platform Paul'salso a great reader so you can
read this Story Valley of theMoon in the New Yorker if you
wanted to but I guarantee onceyou read it or listen to it you
will want to read the wholething but for short story heads
this is really what you shouldbe reading right now.
SPEAKER_01 (22:52):
So short stories do you feel like I wonder sometimes
I think maybe a short storycollection could also be seen as
like a concept album orsomething like maybe each track
or each short story could beseen as an under some sort of
other larger concept.
Do you think that way aboutshort story collections or how
do you look at short storycollections and how would you
think of Paul's sort of bookhere fitting into something like
(23:12):
that?
SPEAKER_02 (23:12):
I mean, I think in a way there are there are thematic
threads.
It's not like there are somestory collections like
Kitteridge by Elizabeth Stroutor or Lost in the City by Edward
P.
Jones, which the former is thischaracter appears in some way in
every single story.
And then the second one, it alltakes place in one neighborhood
(23:33):
in DC.
So they have much more, theirorganizing principles are much
clearer.
This is, this doesn't have that,but I think just in terms of
people, there are themes aboutsurviving in a complicated world
and self-discovery and sort of,and just how to sort of make a
life.
So I think his is more of aconcept album or, or, it feels a
(23:56):
little more diffuse in terms ofthe connections, but they all
work really nicely together.
And I think also somecollections, because it's quite
short and the stories are, youcan really read a couple in a
day, no problem.
It's something that you sort ofare carried along with really
easily.
So I think some collectionsreally do have much more of a
(24:16):
clear organizing principle.
Whereas this, I think it's justhim exploring different
characters in the world and, andyou know, stories from hundreds
of years ago versus storieshappening right now.
And there are connectionsbetween them, these subtle
connections between thesecharacters and sort of how they
figure out the world that Ithink is really beautiful.
SPEAKER_01 (24:33):
Okay, what's next on your list?
Is it another
SPEAKER_02 (24:35):
Paul by any chance?
It is not a Paul, it is a Liz.
So I, as you can perhaps tell, Ioften read sort of these quiet,
introspective literary books,but I was, sometimes I get, I
get a hankering for somethingdifferent.
And I'd seen this book before,All over the place.
And a lot of people said it wasreally great.
(24:55):
It's called The God of the Woodsby Liz Moore.
It came out last year.
I believe it would technicallybe labeled a
crime-slash-thriller book.
I don't always know if thosedistinctions or siloing
literature is that useful,because I do think that it's a
really well-told story and...
It's one of those books youjust, once you start it, she's
(25:18):
really good at not letting youstop because she...
Is it a page turner?
It is a page turner.
It is one of those books whereI'd finish a chapter, I was
like, well, now I can go to bed,or now I can brush my teeth, or
now I can do the dishes, and thechapter would end.
And I'd be like, oh, Liz Moore,what have you done to me?
I have to keep reading.
It takes place in theAdirondacks in 1975.
There is a summer camp therethat is...
(25:41):
owned by a wealthy family whohas a big summer house just up
the hill from this camp.
And when the book begins, thewealthy family, the main couple,
their 13-year-old daughter who'sbeen at that camp, one night
they wake up and she hasdisappeared.
And so it becomes this story ofthis person's disappearance.
But what I thought was so welldone in this book is that I
(26:03):
think there are 10 or 12 pointof views.
She moves from point of view,everyone from the parents to...
the daughter who's disappearedto one of the camp counselors.
And so because of that, you getsuch a full picture of this
world.
And in doing that too, there'sso much tension even before this
disappearance.
This wealthy family who summersin the Adirondacks is surrounded
(26:26):
by this town and this communityof working class people who are
just struggling to make endsmeet.
And they really survive byserving the needs of the wealthy
people who come for three monthsout of the year.
So there's this inherent tensionthere that I think is done
really well.
Additionally, one of thecharacters, probably my favorite
characters, is a woman namedJudy, who is a police
(26:46):
investigator.
What's really fascinating isthat she was in the first class
of state troopers to graduatefrom the academy where they
accepted women.
And then it's a few years later,and now she's the first female
investigator for the New YorkState Police.
She's also quite young and Andbecause of this, she is just
navigating so much on all theends of sort of people
(27:06):
dismissing her, people assumingthat she's a secretary or
whatever it is, or just they'reassuming that she doesn't have
the authority she has.
So she is a really, really welldone character, really
fascinating, really smartlydone.
And just sort of, that was 50years ago.
So 50 years ago, that was thefirst time women were allowed to
be state troopers in this state,which isn't a long time ago,
(27:27):
especially for those of us whoare middle-aged.
So I found all that reallyinteresting and the way it's
about class dynamics and genderand, and sort of just the
insiders of the outsiders, thiscommunity.
And I think she perhaps is socompelling because she lives a
few hours away.
So she is both an outside, she'san outsider in all these
(27:49):
different ways.
Also the other detectives sortof don't give her the time of
day because she is a woman.
And so, It feels like a KateWinslet vehicle.
SPEAKER_01 (27:57):
Do you think about, like, thinking about this when
you're reading these?
Do you cast them by any
SPEAKER_02 (28:02):
way?
I mean, I think the character'sname is Judy.
Well, actually, I think herparents are Polish immigrants,
so her real name is Judita, butshe goes by Judy because
Americans can't pronounce namesthat are...
complicated sometimes.
So she's, I think, maybe 25 or26.
So I think it would be maybeKate Winslet of 20 years ago
(28:22):
could have done it.
But I think she also could playone of the other characters.
I mean...
Oh,
SPEAKER_01 (28:25):
maybe like a Saoirse Ronan.
SPEAKER_02 (28:26):
Saoirse Ronan, for sure.
Anyway, so it's really welldone.
It's really surprising.
It is a total page-turner.
And I thought it was really wellwritten, too.
And I think oftentimes crime andthrillers, they don't get credit
for the images and thesentences.
And I think it's also...
there's really strong writingtoo, in addition to really
strong characterization and afantastic plot.
(28:49):
And so it was just one of thosebooks I was kind of addicted to
and I couldn't stop reading.
It's a longer book becausethere's a lot happening in it
rather than the Paul Yoon book,but it's totally worth it.
And it doesn't ever feel like...
It's dragging or it's too long.
When you get towards the end,you're like, wait, how is this
going to end?
And that's a great feeling whenyou haven't figured out the end
and you still want to know.
(29:09):
So I think she's so great withplot.
She's so great with characterand complicating the narrative.
So it is a quintessential summerread because it's fun and plotty
and dark.
And it takes place in the summerin the Adirondacks.
Oh, that's so relaxing.
Is that bad for the recordingthat we're listening
SPEAKER_01 (29:28):
to?
That's actually quite a vibe,especially because we're talking
about a mystery.
We are,
SPEAKER_02 (29:34):
and I think there are
SPEAKER_01 (29:44):
some thunderstorms there.
to The Unseen World and The Godof the Woods, which we just
learned about from Tom'sselections of Summer Reads 2025.
(30:06):
But what does it mean, Tom?
Because your book has also beenoptioned, is that correct?
SPEAKER_02 (30:10):
Yeah, my second book has been optioned.
So it can mean lots of things,and oftentimes it ends up being
just a nice possibility thatdoesn't become anything, which
I'm saying that because I'mtrying to not get my hopes up.
But to be optioned essentiallyis a production company or a
director or sometimes awell-known screenwriter is
(30:32):
interested enough in yourmaterial that they pay you a
small amount of money for themto have the exclusive film and
television rights for usually 18months and then after those 18
months they can either extend itfor another year or so or if
they move to if they're movingforward in terms of going into
production or pre-production,then the author starts to
actually make proper money.
(30:52):
So an option typically is just asmall amount of money they give
you so that you can't offer therights to anyone else for that
time period.
And my agent was reminding me,because I got a little...
in a tizzy about being optioned.
And I was like, and she was, andshe reminded me that most of her
authors have been options andvery.
So, I mean, I've been optionedby a director who is an indie
(31:14):
director and is a big fan of thebook, reached out to me after
reading it, not through anyagent.
This is in tongues, right?
And he and his screenwriter areworking on a screenplay now.
So, and he even said to me, youhave a better chance of me
making it because I don't just,because big production companies
also, I think what they do isthey option 20 different
properties.
I, I hate calling a book aproperty, by the way, but that's
(31:35):
what they refer to them as.
They would call it content.
No.
20 different books, and maybethey go forward maybe with one.
So I think it's often just togive themselves some options.
They option for options, right?
SPEAKER_01 (31:51):
I guess it makes sense now when you put it that
way.
So
SPEAKER_02 (31:54):
we'll see.
I mean, I don't...
SPEAKER_01 (31:55):
Now, are you the writer?
So I know that there are somewho kind of write for a mass
audience, knowing full well thatthey're most likely to get
optioned to get Shondalandtreatment or to go on Netflix or
something.
Do you think about that whenyou're writing anything?
No,
SPEAKER_02 (32:10):
because apparently I write sort of weird people
who...
often make strange decisions.
And I, and I like stories thatthere is some closure, but not,
but it's, it's still there.
There's still sort of anopenness to an end of the story.
So I don't, I definitely don'twrite thinking, Ooh, I'm writing
(32:31):
this to be a movie.
I know.
I think anytime you write tryingto make the book something other
than what you sort of want it tobe, then I think readers can
tell too.
I think there are some writers,I don't know, Liz Moore is an
amazing, she writes great plotand characters and I wonder if
the kind of, I think the kind ofwriting she does, this very sort
of story forward, plot drivenstuff is easier to translate.
(32:54):
So I still don't, I don'timagine she was, she sits there
and says, who will play the leadin this story I haven't written
yet?
I don't think she's, I mean,maybe she does.
I've never met her.
But I think at least for me,It's like a lovely possibility,
but there's a worry, too,because the book is so its
thing, and then I think changingit to a different medium is
(33:15):
going to just change it.
SPEAKER_01 (33:16):
So that's great.
Liz Moore, Love, God of theWoods, Liz Moore.
So what's next?
SPEAKER_02 (33:20):
Okay, and I'm probably going to butcher this
writer's name, and I apologizeto him.
The novel's called Perfection.
It's a novella, actually.
Vincenzo Latronico, I believe ishow you say his name.
It was translated by SophieHughes from Italian.
It is a novel about two expats,a man and woman who are romantic
partners, living in Berlin inthe early 2010s.
(33:45):
We don't know exactly wherethey're from.
They say they're from a countryin southern Europe.
Of course, because the writer'sItalian, I kept assuming it was
Italy, but they never actuallysay that.
Anyway, but it's a particulartime in Berlin, a couple decades
after the wall fell inreunification, but...
I mean, now if you go to Berlin,which I find fascinating, you
will go to a cafe and you ordersomething in German and they'll
(34:06):
say, this is an English-onlycafe.
Because it's such aninternational city now, which as
someone who speaks German, I geta little on my high horse about
that.
Oh, you speak German?
I do, yeah, because my mom wasGerman, so I spoke German
growing up as a kid.
So I get all excited to go inthere and order a coffee and
they're like, English, please.
(34:27):
And I'm like, ugh.
SPEAKER_01 (34:28):
Anyway, so.
You want to go in and try toshow off?
Yeah.
Or
SPEAKER_02 (34:33):
to show that I'm not just one of those Americans who
assumes everyone will kowtow tomy limited language abilities.
Okay, back to the book.
Even though they live in Berlinand their group of friends is
largely international, there arevery few Germans in their group
of friends, they all workonline.
This couple is graphicdesigners.
(34:54):
And it's really a book about theinternet.
I'm pausing when I say thatbecause even saying that, it
makes it sound reallyuninteresting, but it's a really
well done, really fascinatingbook.
But it's about sort of the waythat sort of everything is so
curated online.
So even whenever this couplegoes away, they will rent their
apartment.
And so it begins with them sortof staging the apartment for all
(35:16):
the pictures for Airbnb.
So it's basically this fantasyof curation and the internet
that we live in and sort of howwe think we can sort of curate
our lives.
SPEAKER_01 (35:24):
Almost like a presentation of self, like how
do we want to be perceived?
Yeah,
SPEAKER_02 (35:28):
it's like a faux authenticity.
And so the novella is, it'squite satirical in a lot of ways
and sort of poking fun of...
how everyone's like, you need togo to this restaurant and get
this one thing, how we fetishizethings.
So we fetishize a restaurant ora kind of food or a place.
And in fetishizing things, sortof often what is amazing about
(35:48):
that food or place or thing getslost.
It's also, as the book goes onand, you know, the Syrian
refugee crisis is happening, sothe complicated things happening
in the larger world startseeping into this community,
sort of you see sort of howsmall and precious in a kind of
(36:09):
derogatory way that this worldis that they are trying to
survive in and also for them itstarts to feel kind of hollow
for this couple as well it'squite a funny book actually one
thing and one of the reasons I'msort of obsessed with it there
are very few scenes and there isno dialogue in the entire book
And I don't understand how hedid this.
He really breaks so many of thequote unquote rules of fiction
(36:33):
writing in this piece.
It's so much describing spacesor them moving through spaces or
going to some party or thinkingthat this party is the thing
that's going to make them feelwhatever the thing is that they
feel like they're lacking.
And
SPEAKER_01 (36:46):
I love that for a summer book selection, because a
lot of beach reads are kind oflike 95% dialogue.
You know what I mean?
It's all conversation.
SPEAKER_02 (36:55):
No.
And this is, and also just theway he, the details he picks is
really smart, both in sort ofsatirizing this world, but also
there are moments too, where youare kind of seduced by the world
of we, as we all do, when yousee something on Airbnb and
you're like this, this, this,little house on a cliff will
save me first of all and then ifyou rent it and you get there
(37:18):
you realize next to the cliff is17 gas stations or whatever or
all the things so there's thiswhole idea of this as the title
is a perfection that we're goingfor that is this sort of false
promise of making our lives feelmeaningful and full so it's a
really smart book it's a book ofnow that I think that really
sort of critiques our world in away though what I did really
(37:40):
appreciate is it didn't feellike it was mocking the main
characters.
They're sort of stuck in a worldthat we're all stuck in and
sometimes it feels emptier thanthey wish it would.
I mean, one thing aboutperfection that's interesting is
the internet has made the worldsmaller in a lot of ways.
And so the fact that they'rehanging out, they're going to
dinner parties, and every personat the dinner party is from a
(38:00):
different country, and they'reall, and sort of the way that
English has become the defaultlanguage for all these itinerant
digital nomad communities.
So, yeah, it's a reallyfascinating, smart book, and
it's another book you can flythrough.
I think of the four books Irecommended, I think this book
and Paul's book are really quickreads, and the other two are
(38:23):
perhaps a little moresubstantial, but they're all
really compelling and it's just,and I also want more people to
read it because I want people, Iwant to talk to people about how
he pulled it off becausesometimes as a writer, you read
something and like this worksand I don't know how it works or
why it works.
And that is really exciting.
And then makes me feel a littlelike, how can I figure this out?
(38:45):
But so I just want to talk tomore people about it because I
think it's so well done.
SPEAKER_01 (38:50):
I've got Tom's summer reading list in the show
notes to this episode.
And I've also got an article onthe website at thejiffy.xyz.
You know, also Tom and I talkedabout a lot of things.
We also talked about blurbs.
It's one of my favorite literarytopics, the art and craft of
writing a good blurb about anovel.
It's an audio exclusive thatI'll share just for premium
(39:11):
members over in the community.
You can upgrade to get perkslike audio exclusives.
It supports this work, and it'sall very fun.
The community is a thrivingplace, and I hope you enjoy the
stuff that I provide over there.
Okay, well, question on thetopic of blurbs.
What would your blurb be aboutthe Jiffy Audio Newsletter
podcast?
(39:31):
Let me know, because you canshoot me a text.
Send me your blurb of thepodcast.
There's a link in the show notesfor shooting me a text, and I
think that's it for thisepisode.
And I'll be back in my nextepisode as part three in the
grab bag series to see wherewill the grab bag of goods take
(39:55):
us next.
Until then, I'll see you over onthe Instagram feed.
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