August 17, 2025 • 31 mins
I finally received my first Listener Question!!! (You can use the link in the show notes above to send in yours.)
So when listener Murphy asked how to create "the ultimate Hudson Valley picnic before it's too late," I embarked on a journey through picnicking's rich history and romantic execution. I learn some French, I learn some Basque, it's a worldly experience through time, seasons, and picnic traditions on the podcast today.
Matthew White, proprietor of the Hillsdale General Store, shares wisdom on picnic hampers and the theatrical experience they create. Betsy Jacks, executive directer emerita of the Thomas Cole Site in Catskill, walks us through one of Thomas Cole's classics: "A Pic-Nic Party." Colu Henry shares her pro picnic tips (and we get a recipe for her Snappy and Herby Potato Salad, soon to be featured in her forthcoming cookbook, out in Spring 2026), Rachel Merriam, a sommelier and owner of Fulton & Forbes, tells us which wines to get, and Tom Grattan, novelist and Official Book Reader for the podcast, shares his short story selections for a picnic.
This might be the most times the words "picnic basket" have ever been said in a single podcast episode!! And it's all for you, Murphy, anonymous listener who sent in their question. Hope this helps!!
"The Jiffy Audio Newsletter Podcast" is an audio documentary zine – the official podcast of The Jiffy – exploring the odd histories, cozy mysteries, and surprising characters of upstate New York. Each episode is a small adventure, told with curiosity, humor, and the occasional text message from a stranger.
New episodes drop every other week. Subscribe, share, and take the scenic route with us.
Follow James on Instagram: @jamescave
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
James Cave (00:03):
Hello and welcome to another episode of the Jiffy,
the podcast about upstate NewYork that really takes you
places.
My name is James Cave, I'm thehost here and I've got a unique
episode for us today Because yousee, we've received our first
listener question.
If you look in the show notesto every episode, there's a link
(00:23):
that says send us a text.
It works.
It really works Because whenyou hit that link, your text
messages will pop up.
Then you can text me.
You can write in with yourquestions, your ideas, your
story scoops or just to say hi.
I read every single one ofthese messages and I recently
received one from a listenernamed Murphy that really piqued
(00:45):
my interest.
Murphy writes (00:45):
"t's almost the end of summer and I haven't
hosted a single picnic.
I need to know how to have themost ultimate Hudson Valley
picnic of all time before it'stoo late.
Also, I love your podcast.
I really, really love yourpodcast.
Well thank you, Murphy.
That's really nice and I haveto say I have never met Murphy.
(01:07):
I don't know who this person is, but I'm going to dedicate this
entire episode to answeringtheir question.
Matthew White (01:13):
So for today's episode, it's the quest for the
perfect picnic before it's toolate, featuring advice like this
If you're carrying bags withplastic containers of food, you
need to up your game.
Seriously, I mean that's sad.
Rachel Merriam (01:26):
Drinking something with a bit of
sweetness at the end.
A bit of ripeness is justperfect in the hot weather.
Colu Henry (01:34):
I think it makes it a picnic.
When you decide the setting andyou take the time to figure out
what you want to make andwhat's going to travel, well, I
think the picnic gamut can runpretty wild.
Tom Grattan (01:47):
Yes, I have a couple.
When I was thinking, when youhad mentioned short stories for
a picnic, I somehow imagined itbeing read out loud.
James Cave (01:53):
That's advice from Matthew White, Rachel Miriam,
Colu Henry and Tom Grattan, allso we could answer Murphy's
important question how does onethrow the most ultimate Hudson
Valley picnic of all time beforeit's too late?
Okay, we're running out of time, let's get started Now.
Murphy, you might not believethis story, but it's true.
(02:14):
I promise you, everything thatI'm about to tell you really
happened.
Okay, because you see, when Ireceived your message, it stuck
with me, mainly because I had noanswer for you.
The truth is, I just didn't knowhow to have the most ultimate
Hudson Valley picnic of all time.
And when I don't know what todo, I take to the road I usually
drive around Columbia County tothink, maybe sing along to the
(02:37):
radio.
And as I was listening to aplaylist that Spotify made for
me called Pink Pilates, princessRecession Pop, thursday
Afternoon, a golden oldie cameon, and this is where I feel
like you're not going to believeme.
But as soon as KT Tunstall sang, I looked out the window and
(03:00):
suddenly saw it.
It was a vintage picnic basketperched atop a free giveaway
pile.
It's like there's a picnicbasket on the side of the road
Right there on the side ofHighway Route 23.
Colu Henry (03:15):
I immediately pulled over to take a look and see if
this was worth something Ishould take in for this episode.
James Cave (03:20):
I don't know, old office furniture, office cabinet
.
But then on top of it is thisgiveaway pile and there's this
picnic basket.
It's got like, looks like awicker, I don't know.
There's like a wooden top.
I'm gonna grab it.
Could be helpful for thisepisode, Murphy, okay, I'm gonna
take it with me.
I know exactly where to takethis picnic basket and since I
(03:41):
was already headed intoHillsdale, I thought well, I
know exactly who can help meMatthew White.
He's the proprietor of theHillsdale General Store as well
as HGS Home Chef across thestreet, and he's a renowned
picnic host.
I'm too excited.
In his stores he sells manythings for a perfect picnic,
including antique picnic basketsas well as brand new picnic
(04:03):
baskets.
He knows his picnic baskets aswell as brand new picnic baskets
.
He knows his picnic baskets.
So I drove right over with ournew picnic basket, or new used
picnic basket, to see if hecould help us.
I've got my picnic basket here.
I'm going to try to come inhere and get this inside.
All right, we're here.
Hey, there, hi, how are you?
Oh, I'm good, I broughtsomething for you to see.
(04:24):
So I was driving around and Ifound this picnic basket on the
side of 23.
And I wanted to know do youmind giving it a look over and
giving me an appraisal?
Here I've sold ones like this,oh, really.
Matthew White (04:36):
Yeah, this is probably, I'm guessing, from the
60s 70s.
Maybe it could be from the 80s,but I think 70s.
It has a wood top.
It is sort of a wickerish lookon the outside, but it's not a
wicker hamper.
It's lined.
It's in great condition.
I have one very similar that Ihave for $48.50.
(04:57):
But this is a really usable,very handsome, good condition
vintage basket.
I might even put $65 on it.
$65?
Yeah, oh, you got it for free.
I did.
James Cave (05:09):
I really did.
I'm so excited.
I'm glad I had this for free,but I also wanted to come and
look at your selection of picnicbaskets, because I really
wanted to talk to you aboutpicnic baskets today.
Matthew White (05:20):
Totally Well.
I have new picnic baskets andthe larger ones are actually
called hampers, picnic hampers.
They usually take two people tocarry a hamper once it's loaded
up.
I really like a hamper becauseit's so much more spectacular
when you crack it open and it'sall there and you unpack it.
It's theatrical, it's sort ofEdwardian, it's magical and
(05:44):
everybody loves that.
If you're carrying bags withplastic containers of food, you
need to up your game seriously.
I mean, that's, that's sad,that's just kind of tragic.
But I also have some antiqueones.
I have one.
That one over there is like uh,now that's a proper hamper,
look at it.
James Cave (06:02):
Oh, this one looks really great.
So this is a an antique picnichamper.
I never even heard of a picnichamper.
Let's go look at it.
Oh, this one looks really great.
So this is an antique picnichamper.
I never even heard of a picnichamper.
Matthew White (06:07):
A hamper is like a trunk.
Really it's like a trunk.
It's fitted out with littlecontainers for drinks, for
sauces.
It even has glasses covered ina wicker cover.
That makes it so, so charming.
It has little metal,pre-tupperware.
Anyway, that's a beauty thatdates to about 1910, maybe 1920.
James Cave (06:30):
How can you tell?
How do you date a picnic hamper?
Matthew White (06:32):
and a picnic basket.
It's more just the quality ofthe silverware, which is full-on
cutlery.
This is something you would seeat a table.
It has sort of fauxbone-handled knives that have a
nice round edge that look likesomething you would have
actually eaten with in Britainin 1890, 1870, 1890.
James Cave (06:57):
You know, today we think of a picnic as this
outdoors event A blanket, abottle of wine, maybe a baguette
tucked under your arm.
But it wasn't always the case.
I looked into this and the wordpicnic comes from the French
pique-nique.
Okay, I'm not very good atFrench, but it was first
mentioned in a French dictionaryin 1694 where it was defined as
(07:18):
a shared meal.
Everyone contributed to Pique.
P-i-q-u-e means to pick or tonibble, and nick N-I-Q-U-E was
slang for a small or trivialthing.
So it basically just meanseveryone brings a little
something to pick at a sharedmeal.
It was often indoors and it wasless about scenery and more
about sociability.
(07:39):
Instead of the scenery, it wasa place to see and be seen.
Then, around 1800 in Britain,the picnic now shortened and
hyphenated between the pick andthe nick was full of music,
theatricals, showmanship.
It was performative a littleover the top.
By the mid-1800s the picnicfinally moved outdoors.
Public parks opened, traintravel made excursions possible
(08:02):
and the middle class adoptedpicnicking as a ritual of
leisure.
Even books like Mrs Beaton'sBook of Household Management,
first published in 1861, offeredpacking lists for feeding 40
people in the grass.
Here's what you might find inMrs Beaton's picnic hamper.
A joint of cold roast beef, ajoint of cold boiled beef, two
(08:23):
ribs of lamb, two shoulders oflamb.
Betsy Jacks (08:25):
Four roast fowl Two roast ducks.
James Cave (08:26):
One ham, one tongue, two veal and ham pie, pigeon
pie.
Six medium-sized lobsters, onepiece of collared calf's head,
eighteen lettuces, six cucumbers, oh, and three dozen quarts of
ale, 12 bottles of wine and twobottles of brandy.
I can see why picnics maybecaught on at that time.
In the US they became communityevents too Church gatherings,
(08:52):
political rallies, juneteenthcelebrations.
But, Murphy, in my research forwhat picnicking was like here
in the Hudson Valley for you, Icame across a landscape scene by
the painter Thomas Cole.
Cole, of course, is known asthe founding father of the
Hudson River School of Painters,and in a painting called "A
Picnic Party, finished in 1846,we can see what a Hudson Valley
picnic might have looked likeback in the day.
It's a scenic scene.
(09:13):
It looks like it's sunset time,there's pink clouds in the sky
and soft mountains in thedistance.
Looks like it's on a riverbankand along the shore, groups of
people gather at the trunk ofthis giant tree.
They're dressed in fancyclothes, they're lounging on
blankets, of course, they've gottheir picnic baskets and it
looks like someone's playing aguitar.
It's an overall pleasant scene,except there's this missing
(09:36):
tree right there in the center,only seen by its tree trunk.
It's a little jagged, lookslike it was recently chopped
down, almost like it was removedout of the way so that we could
see the scene at all.
I wonder if that meanssomething.
So I called up Betsy Jacks.
She's the executive directoremerita of the Thomas Cole site
in Catskill, and Betsy has spentthe better part of two decades
(09:58):
studying Cole's work.
Here's how she describes thepicnic party and what we might
learn from it about picnickingin nature in the Hudson Valley
during Thomas Cole's time.
Betsy Jacks (10:09):
In the painting there are several picnic baskets
brimming with goodies and somenice blankets set out on the
grass, people, young and old,although everyone is beautiful
and in excellent health, andeven a young man is helpfully
pouring the wine.
When Thomas Cole is in hismid-40s and, I think, really at
(10:29):
the height of his powers as apainter, he creates this
incredibly inviting paintingcalled "A Picnic Party and it
has happy people spread about ona grassy spot by smooth water,
surrounded by truly ancienttrees and a lovely view of a
distant valley.
I think a few of the featuresgive it away as Catskill Creek,
(10:50):
a place that, by the way, youcan actually visit.
It's called the MoignacPreserve.
In this one, I believe, I foundthe story of the guitar playing
man's life going back in time.
As you go back into the painting, starting on the left side way
back, there is a solitary figureby a tree and then the next
(11:14):
tree closer to us has a couple.
The man has met a mate.
Us has a couple.
The man has met a mate.
The next tree shows a bigfamily gathered around him.
This narrative also explainsthe final tree in the foreground
, a stump.
The man's life was cut short.
It all makes sense, but it'sjust my theory.
The dapper fellow in the strawhat, brown jacket and bow tie,
(11:38):
chatting with the, looks to melike Thomas Cole himself.
This painting is Thomas Coletelling us to get outside and
enjoy summer while we still can.
In his lifetime, in the 1830sand 40s, he saw beautiful places
in the Hudson Valley all muckedup for someone's profit, for
(12:00):
example by running a railroadthrough it.
So in essence, the message hereis seize the day.
And also that beauty is just asimportant as monetary gain, if
not more so.
He felt very strongly let's notruin all of nature's beauty.
James Cave (12:21):
So in Matthew White Hillsdale General Store, talks
about the romance of a picnic,the basket, the blanket, the
ceremony of it all.
He's tapping into a centuriesold tradition.
Okay, back in Matthew's shop Iasked him for his best practices
for picnics.
How do you, when you'rethrowing a picnic, how do you
throw a picnic?
I mean, you're a pillar ofHillsdale.
(12:42):
You probably know where all ofthe best Hillsdale based picnic
spots are.
So can you give me a few ofyour favorite picnic spots and
then tell me how you go aboutthrowing a world-class picnic?
Matthew White (12:53):
Well, I'm really terrible about locations because
all I do is work in the storeand go home.
That's literally my life.
So I don't know all the greatplaces.
You're going to need anoutdoorsy, adventurous person
who has the time to go to theseplaces to tell you that.
But I will tell you.
At my house I have what we callliterally the picnic garden, and
(13:14):
the picnic garden at my placeis a round circle of grass.
It's not planted with gorgeousflowers, it's not, because my
garden is really like a woodlandgarden.
I live in the woods, on theside of a hill, and there was
this massive oak tree that wascompletely overgrown and we
cleared out the bottom and madea circular lawn around this
(13:37):
ancient, huge oak tree thatoverlooks our little orchard of
maybe 50 trees and that is ourpicnic garden and it's.
You know.
I don't know how far is it fromthe house 200 feet, 300 feet
from the house.
So what we do is we have thehampers and baskets and bags and
(13:59):
ice chest and we gather in thehouse with our friends and loved
ones and when we're ready to go, we have the dogs, we have the
blankets, everybody has ablanket, everybody's carrying
something and it's almost like aparade and I'm in under my
umbrella because the sun, youknow, and then we just spread
(14:20):
out and some things are sort ofpreset.
Probably an ice chest is presetto keep things cold.
I really like things cold, evenif it's a warm day.
So that's the setup.
James Cave (14:30):
And now, what are?
What are your?
Some classic go-to picnic itemsthat you're, that you're
packing and people are bringing,yes, to eat and to serve.
Matthew White (14:38):
Well, you know, I just like good classic things
like a good potato salad, a goodchicken salad, a good tuna
salad, crepe crudités, freshvegetables from the farmer's
market.
You can't beat it.
This time of year I love tomatosandwiches.
That's a little trickier butyou could have the cold sliced
tomatoes and the good slicedbread all packaged up and a nice
(15:00):
big vat of mayonnaise goodmayonnaise, all you need is salt
mayonnaise and I mean it's thebest, most delicious thing you
can ever have in your life, barnone.
And you put that with a potatosalad that you've made in the
day before.
It's pretty easy.
We had a very dear friend, rogerRees, who was a well-known
British actor that lived inAmerica and a Shakespeare expert
(15:23):
and such a lovely man.
He's no longer with us but hewould at every picnic we ever
had.
He would just pull outShakespeare sonnets out of his
hat and would cry, would laugh.
I mean, it was just he, it wasso magical.
But if you have a friend whosings or plays, a good star, you
know, bring it all.
Bring it all to the picnic,because it's not just about
(15:46):
eating and yakking, you know,it's a total Experience.
Knowing having talented friendsdoes not hurt.
There's all sorts of picnicsand yeah and and outdoor
grilling and all that sort ofstuff.
You can have a fire and blah,blah, blah.
But the romance of it, thecharm of it and the sort of
(16:10):
event of it is so much fun.
It's just a delightful way tobe with people you love really
to be with people you lovereally.
James Cave (16:23):
Matthew mentioned something about a potato salad.
He also talked about wine, andthis tells me I need to make a
quick call to a very specificperson.
Colu Henry (16:34):
Hello.
James Cave (16:35):
Hey Colu, it's James .
How's it going?
Matthew White (16:38):
Hey how you doing .
James Cave (16:40):
That's Colu Henry.
You might know her from herbooks "Back Pocket Pasta and
Colu Cooks Easy, fancy Food orfrom her recipes in the New York
Times in Food and Wine.
One of my favorite recipes shehas on the New York Times is her
pasta a la vodka currently8,048 reviews, five-star rating.
Colu is known for hostingincredible outdoor picnics and
(17:01):
parties.
She lives in the Hudson Valley,now actually right near me, and
whenever I need a recipe I willdrive over to her house
unannounced, knock on her doorto ask for recipes.
She never seems to be at home,but that's probably because this
time of year she's usually upin Nova Scotia where she hosts
friends, and was actuallyprepping her house for guests
who were arriving later in theday when we gave her a call,
(17:23):
Murphy, but she made time for usto answer some of our questions
about picnics, so I know she'sbusy.
I got straight to the pointwhen it comes to picnicking.
What makes a picnic feel like apicnic to you Like?
What are some things thatyou're like?
Ok, this is not just analfresco dining thing.
This is a real picnic and we'regoing to intentionally do this.
Colu Henry (17:45):
I think it makes it a picnic.
When you decide the setting andyou take the time to figure out
what you want to make andwhat's going to travel, well, I
think the picnic gamut can runpretty wild.
I'm more of a well-packedsandwich potato salad with a big
blanket and rosé.
And yeah, I think it's key interms of when you're packing for
(18:07):
a picnic.
If, say, you're bringing potatosalad, which I have a famous
one that it's topped with friedshallots.
So I would have everything sortof ready to go except for the
toppings which I would packseparately to make sure that
they stay crisp and crunchy.
I think the same thing goes forsort of any fresh herb.
If you're able to prep and packthose and bring them along and
(18:30):
kind of garnish at the end, Ithink it makes a big difference
in terms of not having themsoggy and discolored.
And I mean beer, wine, a salad,some utensils and a sandwich.
James Cave (18:45):
I'm thinking of logistics now, but like how do
you arrange assignments to folksand attendees, and like carting
it all out there to your spot.
Colu Henry (18:55):
That's a great question, james.
I don't own a picnic basket.
Actually I'm more of a canvastote kind of girl.
We also have some cooler bagsthat we fiddle with ice from,
you know some of those freezerbags.
I think that definitely havinga beautiful picnic basket would
up your picnic game and make ita much more aesthetic sort of
(19:16):
endeavor, which I think isreally fun.
James Cave (19:18):
It's okay if you don't have one.
That's good to know.
Colu Henry (19:21):
Absolutely.
It's totally fine.
Put some things in a backpackand take a walk.
You know what I mean.
James Cave (19:25):
You mentioned this potato salad and I'd love to
hear more about it because, asfar as I know, it's a requested
item, right?
People kind of look forward toit if you were to bring it.
Colu Henry (19:37):
It's true, I made it for the first time in the
backyard in Hudson actually, andthen, from then moving forward,
people were always asking me ifI'd bring the potato salad, and
that's actually another tip.
I don't recommend making anysort of pasta salad or potato
salad that has a mayo base.
Just because the variables aretoo, it could be too hot.
(19:59):
It might get you know cloppy.
Just because the variables aretoo, it could be too hot, it
might get you know cloppy.
So I this is a snappy, herbypotato salad which has, like a
mustard, very sort of punchydressing which travels well.
It sort of veer away fromanything super creamy when I'm
picnicking, just because whenyou know if it gets warm, no one
really wants to eat somethinglike that.
You know what I mean.
I love mayonnaise, like it's myfavorite, truly my favorite
condiment, but I don't want myeyes on a picnic.
James Cave (20:20):
That's a good point.
Colu's got a new cookbook onthe way Also.
She's been working on it.
She told me it's likely comingout in the spring of 2026.
Colu Henry (20:42):
Now the title's still a bit of a secret but I
wondered if there was anythingin her new cookbook that might
be good for our picnic year.
Well, I have to ask is thereany sort of recipe that you
would have in the upcomingcookbook?
James Cave (20:47):
that might be good for picnics.
Yeah, I'm happy to give you thepotato salad recipe if you like
it.
Oh my God.
Well, I didn't want to be tooforward, but yes.
Colu Henry (20:50):
I'd love that one.
Yeah, you got it.
James Cave (20:54):
Okay, Murphy, I'll include a link to the recipe for
Colu Henry's Snappy and HerbyPotato Salad in my show notes.
It's got celery, fennel, springonion potatoes, of course.
It looks really, really good.
Also, if you haven't already,be sure to subscribe to Colu's
fantastic newsletter, Colu Cooks, I have a link to do so in my
show notes as well.
Okay, we're going to take aquick break, but Matthew and
(21:16):
Colu both mentioned wine as animportant picnic component.
So when we come back, whatwe'll do?
We'll head out to talk with aSomalier to learn about her
picks for the picnic.
Okay, Murphy, stay with us.
I'll be right back.
Hey, it's me, james Cave.
I'm the head voice of the JamesCave Instagram feed podcast.
We call it the Jiffy, and I'mjumping in here to tell you that
(21:36):
this episode is brought to youby Word of Mouth.
Word of Mouth that's what'sworking here, if you think about
it, with the audio podcasts,when you're hearing me talk,
that's words from my mouth, butit's also what helps this
podcast to grow.
So, if you like it, could youdo me a favor and share it with
a friend, Tell them to give it alisten and then, if they like
(21:58):
it, have that friend, tellanother friend.
It really helps this podcastgrow and right now that's what I
really need if I ever want toget sponsored someday.
So, thank you, tell a friend totell a friend about the Jiffy
Audio Newsletter Podcast.
All right, that's all.
That's all I needed to say.
Now back to the show.
Welcome back, Murphy.
(22:19):
Okay, as you just heard beforethe break, matthew and Calou
might not agree on mayonnaise'splace in your picnic, but they
definitely agree on a keyingredient Wine, of course.
Talk about wine and, as ithappens, I know a sommelier, the
genuine artifact, who can helpus out.
Her name's Rachel Miriam.
Hey, good afternoon.
Oh, hey, rachel, how's it going?
(22:40):
Well, how are you?
I'm good, and she's the ownerof Fulton Forbes, a beautiful
wine and spirits shop in Anchor,new York.
What are some talking pointsand questions that somebody
should probably think aboutasking to identify what might be
the best?
Rachel Merriam (22:54):
I think what wines you want to keep going
back to.
You don't want anything tooheavy and you want something
fresh and bright.
It's just nothing that feelsweighted on you.
Because it's 85 degrees, you'reout in the sun, hopefully
you're by a lake, you're gettinga little bit of a breeze, but
after that you want somethingthat is cooling and refreshing.
(23:14):
So just anything in thatcategory.
If we're packing picnic wines,we want to pack wines that are
probably on the colder sidebecause we're going to be
outside.
We want something that's thirstquenching and something we want
to keep going back to.
So I definitely have some goodwhites, maybe something a little
effervescent if we wanted to go.
(23:35):
There are chillable reds.
Chillable reds is 100% acategory, but all reds can't be
chilled.
It needs to be a light,refreshing wine with bright
acidity going on to it, maybe alittle bit of bubble, like I was
saying before.
That is the perfect crushable,chillable red.
We can't be chilling.
You know something from theNapa Valley or Sonoma?
(23:58):
You know, not all reds arecreated equal.
James Cave (24:01):
In terms of practicality.
You want a good picnic.
You're thinking practicality,Are there any wines or anything
that you could think about thatmight travel particularly well?
Rachel Merriam (24:11):
Yeah, there's also amazing ready to drink
cocktails out there, which isgreat that travel really well.
There's some delicious wine incanned format that also travel
really well, and some box winetoo that travels really well,
sometimes a little bit harder toget cold.
Maybe you just do away with thebox and throw the bag in the
cooler A little bit easier andsave some room.
(24:33):
But yeah, those definitelytravel really well and the
product has gotten a lot betterover time.
James Cave (24:41):
Yeah, I love that.
I think maybe going with aliter bottle or like a box wine
without the box.
It's interesting tips.
And then are there any certainwines that like specifically
that you might recommend?
Like what are some good winecategories that we could look
into?
Rachel Merriam (24:58):
Definitely so.
Perfect picnic wines, for me atleast.
Vino Verde, coming fromNorthern Portugal.
They usually comes under screwcap, not always, but it's the
best.
You pop that screw cap and youget that lovely, satisfying,
because there's a little bit ofeffervescence, a little bit of
bubble in there and then also inthe same vein, but coming from
Spain, from San Sebastian, isTxakoli, yeah how do you spell
(25:21):
that?
James Cave (25:21):
That is a new one to me.
Rachel Merriam (25:23):
T-X-A-K-O-L-I Txakoli.
So in Basque T-X is pronouncedEnglish C-H-H.
James Cave (25:30):
Tell me about these wines.
Rachel Merriam (25:32):
What makes them so great for this?
Because so they're low inalcohol, which is perfect.
You know, if we're cooking outin the sun enjoying a picnic, we
don't want anything that getsus too drunk too quick.
So they sit around like 9% 11%,depending on the producer
Bright, bright, bright acidity.
It's not heavy on the palate atall, it's just like drinking
lemon water A lot of it's spawater, Honestly.
(25:54):
It's just in a wine bottlePerfect.
A lot of it's spa water,honestly it's just wine, a wine
bottle, perfect.
James Cave (26:00):
okay, Murphy, are you still with us?
So far, I've given youinformation on how to appraise a
vintage picnic basket, how topack your picnic basket, uh,
whether or not you want to bringmayonnaise, we've also got you
kaloo, henry's potato salad andnow the perfect wines to bring.
There's just one more thing Iwant to show you.
If you remember, back at theHillsdale General Store, matthew
(26:22):
mentioned that having talentedfriends can go a long way to
adding a good ambiance for yourpicnic.
Well, luckily for you, I knowTom Grattan.
He's a novelist.
He's published two novelsalready.
He's already walking on histhird, but he's also the
official book reader for theJiffy podcast, and so I wanted
to know if Tom had anyrecommendations for short
(26:43):
stories that might be great tobring along on your next picnic,
Murphy.
So here we go.
Here's Tom on some short storyrecommendations.
So, hey, I'm here at Tom'shouse, I swear.
You usually get our seasonalreading lists, but this is a
special request because I'mtrying to build a picnic Tom.
(27:03):
I'm trying to build this picnicexperience, a picnic basket
with food and stuff, but I alsofeel like bringing a good book
around or bringing a short storyor something might be important
to a full picnic experience.
I was wondering if you had anyrecommendations on things that I
might be able to read or bringalong, if you had any thoughts
there about what to bring.
Tom Grattan (27:21):
Yes, I have a couple If you sort of want to
bring kind of a funny story toit.
I was thinking when you hadmentioned short stories for a
picnic I somehow imagined itbeing read out loud.
And there are a couple that arefunny and caustic and really
smart but also have a lot ofemotion to them.
But I think would just be greatto bring to a picnic and read.
(27:44):
The first is a story by LaurieMoore called You're Ugly Too,
which is about a collegeprofessor in the Midwest
visiting her younger sister inNew York for Halloween and this
disastrous visit and thisridiculous Halloween party and
it's really hilarious and it's abeautiful character study.
But also Laurie Moore if you'veread her at all, she is wildly
funny and so the humor in thatstory is great.
Another is also both funny andreally poignant.
(28:06):
It's by a Hudson Valley writer,Marie- Helene Bertino.
It's from her book Exit Zerothat just came out a few months
ago and the story is called CanOnly Houses Be Haunted and it
begins a weekend away withfriends and this couple is
bickering and they're bickeringsort of just moves in these
(28:26):
surprising kind of surrealdirections.
But it is really funny.
She gets sort of the I've spenta long weekend with a bunch of
random people and my partnerdoesn't get how frustrating.
This is sort of the vibe ofthat like that fight you have at
the end of a long weekend witha bunch of random people, and my
partner doesn't get howfrustrating.
This is sort of the vibe ofthat, like that fight you have
at the end of a long weekendwith a partner.
It's so well done and so smartand so funny, so that's great.
My third recommendation is verydifferent.
(28:47):
It's a really quiet, beautifulinterior story but it takes
place in the summer and it'scalled Getting Closer by Stephen
Milhauser, and the whole storyis this young kid, I think he's
like nine or 10.
And he and his family in thesummer, as they sometimes drive
to this river where you can goswimming, and they have a picnic
and it's his favorite thing todo, and the whole story is
(29:07):
really him getting there andhe's about to get into the river
, but he feels like as soon ashe does that this experience
that he's so excited about willstart to end.
And it's really about how wedeal with things.
We love being really ephemeraland how sometimes we don't start
things because we're afraidthey'll end and time passing and
(29:27):
it's a really beautiful storyand it's a whole story.
He's mostly just standinglooking at a river and it's such
a gorgeous story and it's areally beautiful character study
and the fact that it takesplace.
I think maybe the Housatonic itmight be that river.
James Cave (29:38):
That's why I've been really hesitant to go on a
picnic, frankly, because I knowit's going to have to end.
Tom Grattan (29:49):
Right, and so the story and I think it's a young
person realizing somethingreally complicated about life is
that you have this thing.
It's almost like that Christmasmorning feeling you both want
to open the presents but thatyou know once you open them then
you don't have Christmas foranother year.
So then there's.
So it's this, it's this reallyinteresting balance between such
excitement and such fear ofletdown, and I think he captured
(30:10):
it so beautifully in that storyand it's just and it's really,
and I think it's only seven oreight pages long, so it's
something you could read sittingtogether by a river and feel
all your feelings together.
James Cave (30:22):
So there you have it , everything you could possibly
need to host the world's mostultimate Hudson Valley picnic of
all time.
Anytime you have a question forme here at the James Cave
Instagram feed or the podcast,all you have to do is hit that
link in the show notes and youcan send me a text directly.
It's so easy to do and we'lllearn some things together, such
(30:44):
as one of the themes of thisepisode seemed to be on the
passage of time and the fleetingnature of summer.
So, just like the seasons, Isuppose this episode has to come
to an end at some point.
Well, that's where we are.
I want to thank you forlistening all the way through,
and I also want to thank MatthewWhite, Betsy Jacks, Colu Henry,
Rachel Miriam, Tom Grattan and,of course, Murphy, my anonymous
(31:05):
listener.
As for me, I'm James Cave, anduntil next time I'll see you
over on the Instagram feed.
Hello and welcome to another episode of the Jiffy,
the podcast about upstate NewYork that really takes you
places.
My name is James Cave, I'm thehost here and I've got a unique
episode for us today Because yousee, we've received our first
listener question.
If you look in the show notesto every episode, there's a link
(00:23):
that says send us a text.
It works.
It really works Because whenyou hit that link, your text
messages will pop up.
Then you can text me.
You can write in with yourquestions, your ideas, your
story scoops or just to say hi.
I read every single one ofthese messages and I recently
received one from a listenernamed Murphy that really piqued
(00:45):
my interest.
Murphy writes (00:45):
"t's almost the end of summer and I haven't
hosted a single picnic.
I need to know how to have themost ultimate Hudson Valley
picnic of all time before it'stoo late.
Also, I love your podcast.
I really, really love yourpodcast.
Well thank you, Murphy.
That's really nice and I haveto say I have never met Murphy.
(01:07):
I don't know who this person is, but I'm going to dedicate this
entire episode to answeringtheir question.
Matthew White (01:13):
So for today's episode, it's the quest for the
perfect picnic before it's toolate, featuring advice like this
If you're carrying bags withplastic containers of food, you
need to up your game.
Seriously, I mean that's sad.
Rachel Merriam (01:26):
Drinking something with a bit of
sweetness at the end.
A bit of ripeness is justperfect in the hot weather.
Colu Henry (01:34):
I think it makes it a picnic.
When you decide the setting andyou take the time to figure out
what you want to make andwhat's going to travel, well, I
think the picnic gamut can runpretty wild.
Tom Grattan (01:47):
Yes, I have a couple.
When I was thinking, when youhad mentioned short stories for
a picnic, I somehow imagined itbeing read out loud.
James Cave (01:53):
That's advice from Matthew White, Rachel Miriam,
Colu Henry and Tom Grattan, allso we could answer Murphy's
important question how does onethrow the most ultimate Hudson
Valley picnic of all time beforeit's too late?
Okay, we're running out of time, let's get started Now.
Murphy, you might not believethis story, but it's true.
(02:14):
I promise you, everything thatI'm about to tell you really
happened.
Okay, because you see, when Ireceived your message, it stuck
with me, mainly because I had noanswer for you.
The truth is, I just didn't knowhow to have the most ultimate
Hudson Valley picnic of all time.
And when I don't know what todo, I take to the road I usually
drive around Columbia County tothink, maybe sing along to the
(02:37):
radio.
And as I was listening to aplaylist that Spotify made for
me called Pink Pilates, princessRecession Pop, thursday
Afternoon, a golden oldie cameon, and this is where I feel
like you're not going to believeme.
But as soon as KT Tunstall sang, I looked out the window and
(03:00):
suddenly saw it.
It was a vintage picnic basketperched atop a free giveaway
pile.
It's like there's a picnicbasket on the side of the road
Right there on the side ofHighway Route 23.
Colu Henry (03:15):
I immediately pulled over to take a look and see if
this was worth something Ishould take in for this episode.
James Cave (03:20):
I don't know, old office furniture, office cabinet
.
But then on top of it is thisgiveaway pile and there's this
picnic basket.
It's got like, looks like awicker, I don't know.
There's like a wooden top.
I'm gonna grab it.
Could be helpful for thisepisode, Murphy, okay, I'm gonna
take it with me.
I know exactly where to takethis picnic basket and since I
(03:41):
was already headed intoHillsdale, I thought well, I
know exactly who can help meMatthew White.
He's the proprietor of theHillsdale General Store as well
as HGS Home Chef across thestreet, and he's a renowned
picnic host.
I'm too excited.
In his stores he sells manythings for a perfect picnic,
including antique picnic basketsas well as brand new picnic
(04:03):
baskets.
He knows his picnic baskets aswell as brand new picnic baskets
.
He knows his picnic baskets.
So I drove right over with ournew picnic basket, or new used
picnic basket, to see if hecould help us.
I've got my picnic basket here.
I'm going to try to come inhere and get this inside.
All right, we're here.
Hey, there, hi, how are you?
Oh, I'm good, I broughtsomething for you to see.
(04:24):
So I was driving around and Ifound this picnic basket on the
side of 23.
And I wanted to know do youmind giving it a look over and
giving me an appraisal?
Here I've sold ones like this,oh, really.
Matthew White (04:36):
Yeah, this is probably, I'm guessing, from the
60s 70s.
Maybe it could be from the 80s,but I think 70s.
It has a wood top.
It is sort of a wickerish lookon the outside, but it's not a
wicker hamper.
It's lined.
It's in great condition.
I have one very similar that Ihave for $48.50.
(04:57):
But this is a really usable,very handsome, good condition
vintage basket.
I might even put $65 on it.
$65?
Yeah, oh, you got it for free.
I did.
James Cave (05:09):
I really did.
I'm so excited.
I'm glad I had this for free,but I also wanted to come and
look at your selection of picnicbaskets, because I really
wanted to talk to you aboutpicnic baskets today.
Matthew White (05:20):
Totally Well.
I have new picnic baskets andthe larger ones are actually
called hampers, picnic hampers.
They usually take two people tocarry a hamper once it's loaded
up.
I really like a hamper becauseit's so much more spectacular
when you crack it open and it'sall there and you unpack it.
It's theatrical, it's sort ofEdwardian, it's magical and
(05:44):
everybody loves that.
If you're carrying bags withplastic containers of food, you
need to up your game seriously.
I mean, that's, that's sad,that's just kind of tragic.
But I also have some antiqueones.
I have one.
That one over there is like uh,now that's a proper hamper,
look at it.
James Cave (06:02):
Oh, this one looks really great.
So this is a an antique picnichamper.
I never even heard of a picnichamper.
Let's go look at it.
Oh, this one looks really great.
So this is an antique picnichamper.
I never even heard of a picnichamper.
Matthew White (06:07):
A hamper is like a trunk.
Really it's like a trunk.
It's fitted out with littlecontainers for drinks, for
sauces.
It even has glasses covered ina wicker cover.
That makes it so, so charming.
It has little metal,pre-tupperware.
Anyway, that's a beauty thatdates to about 1910, maybe 1920.
James Cave (06:30):
How can you tell?
How do you date a picnic hamper?
Matthew White (06:32):
and a picnic basket.
It's more just the quality ofthe silverware, which is full-on
cutlery.
This is something you would seeat a table.
It has sort of fauxbone-handled knives that have a
nice round edge that look likesomething you would have
actually eaten with in Britainin 1890, 1870, 1890.
James Cave (06:57):
You know, today we think of a picnic as this
outdoors event A blanket, abottle of wine, maybe a baguette
tucked under your arm.
But it wasn't always the case.
I looked into this and the wordpicnic comes from the French
pique-nique.
Okay, I'm not very good atFrench, but it was first
mentioned in a French dictionaryin 1694 where it was defined as
(07:18):
a shared meal.
Everyone contributed to Pique.
P-i-q-u-e means to pick or tonibble, and nick N-I-Q-U-E was
slang for a small or trivialthing.
So it basically just meanseveryone brings a little
something to pick at a sharedmeal.
It was often indoors and it wasless about scenery and more
about sociability.
(07:39):
Instead of the scenery, it wasa place to see and be seen.
Then, around 1800 in Britain,the picnic now shortened and
hyphenated between the pick andthe nick was full of music,
theatricals, showmanship.
It was performative a littleover the top.
By the mid-1800s the picnicfinally moved outdoors.
Public parks opened, traintravel made excursions possible
(08:02):
and the middle class adoptedpicnicking as a ritual of
leisure.
Even books like Mrs Beaton'sBook of Household Management,
first published in 1861, offeredpacking lists for feeding 40
people in the grass.
Here's what you might find inMrs Beaton's picnic hamper.
A joint of cold roast beef, ajoint of cold boiled beef, two
(08:23):
ribs of lamb, two shoulders oflamb.
Betsy Jacks (08:25):
Four roast fowl Two roast ducks.
James Cave (08:26):
One ham, one tongue, two veal and ham pie, pigeon
pie.
Six medium-sized lobsters, onepiece of collared calf's head,
eighteen lettuces, six cucumbers, oh, and three dozen quarts of
ale, 12 bottles of wine and twobottles of brandy.
I can see why picnics maybecaught on at that time.
In the US they became communityevents too Church gatherings,
(08:52):
political rallies, juneteenthcelebrations.
But, Murphy, in my research forwhat picnicking was like here
in the Hudson Valley for you, Icame across a landscape scene by
the painter Thomas Cole.
Cole, of course, is known asthe founding father of the
Hudson River School of Painters,and in a painting called "A
Picnic Party, finished in 1846,we can see what a Hudson Valley
picnic might have looked likeback in the day.
It's a scenic scene.
(09:13):
It looks like it's sunset time,there's pink clouds in the sky
and soft mountains in thedistance.
Looks like it's on a riverbankand along the shore, groups of
people gather at the trunk ofthis giant tree.
They're dressed in fancyclothes, they're lounging on
blankets, of course, they've gottheir picnic baskets and it
looks like someone's playing aguitar.
It's an overall pleasant scene,except there's this missing
(09:36):
tree right there in the center,only seen by its tree trunk.
It's a little jagged, lookslike it was recently chopped
down, almost like it was removedout of the way so that we could
see the scene at all.
I wonder if that meanssomething.
So I called up Betsy Jacks.
She's the executive directoremerita of the Thomas Cole site
in Catskill, and Betsy has spentthe better part of two decades
(09:58):
studying Cole's work.
Here's how she describes thepicnic party and what we might
learn from it about picnickingin nature in the Hudson Valley
during Thomas Cole's time.
Betsy Jacks (10:09):
In the painting there are several picnic baskets
brimming with goodies and somenice blankets set out on the
grass, people, young and old,although everyone is beautiful
and in excellent health, andeven a young man is helpfully
pouring the wine.
When Thomas Cole is in hismid-40s and, I think, really at
(10:29):
the height of his powers as apainter, he creates this
incredibly inviting paintingcalled "A Picnic Party and it
has happy people spread about ona grassy spot by smooth water,
surrounded by truly ancienttrees and a lovely view of a
distant valley.
I think a few of the featuresgive it away as Catskill Creek,
(10:50):
a place that, by the way, youcan actually visit.
It's called the MoignacPreserve.
In this one, I believe, I foundthe story of the guitar playing
man's life going back in time.
As you go back into the painting, starting on the left side way
back, there is a solitary figureby a tree and then the next
(11:14):
tree closer to us has a couple.
The man has met a mate.
Us has a couple.
The man has met a mate.
The next tree shows a bigfamily gathered around him.
This narrative also explainsthe final tree in the foreground
, a stump.
The man's life was cut short.
It all makes sense, but it'sjust my theory.
The dapper fellow in the strawhat, brown jacket and bow tie,
(11:38):
chatting with the, looks to melike Thomas Cole himself.
This painting is Thomas Coletelling us to get outside and
enjoy summer while we still can.
In his lifetime, in the 1830sand 40s, he saw beautiful places
in the Hudson Valley all muckedup for someone's profit, for
(12:00):
example by running a railroadthrough it.
So in essence, the message hereis seize the day.
And also that beauty is just asimportant as monetary gain, if
not more so.
He felt very strongly let's notruin all of nature's beauty.
James Cave (12:21):
So in Matthew White Hillsdale General Store, talks
about the romance of a picnic,the basket, the blanket, the
ceremony of it all.
He's tapping into a centuriesold tradition.
Okay, back in Matthew's shop Iasked him for his best practices
for picnics.
How do you, when you'rethrowing a picnic, how do you
throw a picnic?
I mean, you're a pillar ofHillsdale.
(12:42):
You probably know where all ofthe best Hillsdale based picnic
spots are.
So can you give me a few ofyour favorite picnic spots and
then tell me how you go aboutthrowing a world-class picnic?
Matthew White (12:53):
Well, I'm really terrible about locations because
all I do is work in the storeand go home.
That's literally my life.
So I don't know all the greatplaces.
You're going to need anoutdoorsy, adventurous person
who has the time to go to theseplaces to tell you that.
But I will tell you.
At my house I have what we callliterally the picnic garden, and
(13:14):
the picnic garden at my placeis a round circle of grass.
It's not planted with gorgeousflowers, it's not, because my
garden is really like a woodlandgarden.
I live in the woods, on theside of a hill, and there was
this massive oak tree that wascompletely overgrown and we
cleared out the bottom and madea circular lawn around this
(13:37):
ancient, huge oak tree thatoverlooks our little orchard of
maybe 50 trees and that is ourpicnic garden and it's.
You know.
I don't know how far is it fromthe house 200 feet, 300 feet
from the house.
So what we do is we have thehampers and baskets and bags and
(13:59):
ice chest and we gather in thehouse with our friends and loved
ones and when we're ready to go, we have the dogs, we have the
blankets, everybody has ablanket, everybody's carrying
something and it's almost like aparade and I'm in under my
umbrella because the sun, youknow, and then we just spread
(14:20):
out and some things are sort ofpreset.
Probably an ice chest is presetto keep things cold.
I really like things cold, evenif it's a warm day.
So that's the setup.
James Cave (14:30):
And now, what are?
What are your?
Some classic go-to picnic itemsthat you're, that you're
packing and people are bringing,yes, to eat and to serve.
Matthew White (14:38):
Well, you know, I just like good classic things
like a good potato salad, a goodchicken salad, a good tuna
salad, crepe crudités, freshvegetables from the farmer's
market.
You can't beat it.
This time of year I love tomatosandwiches.
That's a little trickier butyou could have the cold sliced
tomatoes and the good slicedbread all packaged up and a nice
(15:00):
big vat of mayonnaise goodmayonnaise, all you need is salt
mayonnaise and I mean it's thebest, most delicious thing you
can ever have in your life, barnone.
And you put that with a potatosalad that you've made in the
day before.
It's pretty easy.
We had a very dear friend, rogerRees, who was a well-known
British actor that lived inAmerica and a Shakespeare expert
(15:23):
and such a lovely man.
He's no longer with us but hewould at every picnic we ever
had.
He would just pull outShakespeare sonnets out of his
hat and would cry, would laugh.
I mean, it was just he, it wasso magical.
But if you have a friend whosings or plays, a good star, you
know, bring it all.
Bring it all to the picnic,because it's not just about
(15:46):
eating and yakking, you know,it's a total Experience.
Knowing having talented friendsdoes not hurt.
There's all sorts of picnicsand yeah and and outdoor
grilling and all that sort ofstuff.
You can have a fire and blah,blah, blah.
But the romance of it, thecharm of it and the sort of
(16:10):
event of it is so much fun.
It's just a delightful way tobe with people you love really
to be with people you lovereally.
James Cave (16:23):
Matthew mentioned something about a potato salad.
He also talked about wine, andthis tells me I need to make a
quick call to a very specificperson.
Colu Henry (16:34):
Hello.
James Cave (16:35):
Hey Colu, it's James .
How's it going?
Matthew White (16:38):
Hey how you doing .
James Cave (16:40):
That's Colu Henry.
You might know her from herbooks "Back Pocket Pasta and
Colu Cooks Easy, fancy Food orfrom her recipes in the New York
Times in Food and Wine.
One of my favorite recipes shehas on the New York Times is her
pasta a la vodka currently8,048 reviews, five-star rating.
Colu is known for hostingincredible outdoor picnics and
(17:01):
parties.
She lives in the Hudson Valley,now actually right near me, and
whenever I need a recipe I willdrive over to her house
unannounced, knock on her doorto ask for recipes.
She never seems to be at home,but that's probably because this
time of year she's usually upin Nova Scotia where she hosts
friends, and was actuallyprepping her house for guests
who were arriving later in theday when we gave her a call,
(17:23):
Murphy, but she made time for usto answer some of our questions
about picnics, so I know she'sbusy.
I got straight to the pointwhen it comes to picnicking.
What makes a picnic feel like apicnic to you Like?
What are some things thatyou're like?
Ok, this is not just analfresco dining thing.
This is a real picnic and we'regoing to intentionally do this.
Colu Henry (17:45):
I think it makes it a picnic.
When you decide the setting andyou take the time to figure out
what you want to make andwhat's going to travel, well, I
think the picnic gamut can runpretty wild.
I'm more of a well-packedsandwich potato salad with a big
blanket and rosé.
And yeah, I think it's key interms of when you're packing for
(18:07):
a picnic.
If, say, you're bringing potatosalad, which I have a famous
one that it's topped with friedshallots.
So I would have everything sortof ready to go except for the
toppings which I would packseparately to make sure that
they stay crisp and crunchy.
I think the same thing goes forsort of any fresh herb.
If you're able to prep and packthose and bring them along and
(18:30):
kind of garnish at the end, Ithink it makes a big difference
in terms of not having themsoggy and discolored.
And I mean beer, wine, a salad,some utensils and a sandwich.
James Cave (18:45):
I'm thinking of logistics now, but like how do
you arrange assignments to folksand attendees, and like carting
it all out there to your spot.
Colu Henry (18:55):
That's a great question, james.
I don't own a picnic basket.
Actually I'm more of a canvastote kind of girl.
We also have some cooler bagsthat we fiddle with ice from,
you know some of those freezerbags.
I think that definitely havinga beautiful picnic basket would
up your picnic game and make ita much more aesthetic sort of
(19:16):
endeavor, which I think isreally fun.
James Cave (19:18):
It's okay if you don't have one.
That's good to know.
Colu Henry (19:21):
Absolutely.
It's totally fine.
Put some things in a backpackand take a walk.
You know what I mean.
James Cave (19:25):
You mentioned this potato salad and I'd love to
hear more about it because, asfar as I know, it's a requested
item, right?
People kind of look forward toit if you were to bring it.
Colu Henry (19:37):
It's true, I made it for the first time in the
backyard in Hudson actually, andthen, from then moving forward,
people were always asking me ifI'd bring the potato salad, and
that's actually another tip.
I don't recommend making anysort of pasta salad or potato
salad that has a mayo base.
Just because the variables aretoo, it could be too hot.
(19:59):
It might get you know cloppy.
Just because the variables aretoo, it could be too hot, it
might get you know cloppy.
So I this is a snappy, herbypotato salad which has, like a
mustard, very sort of punchydressing which travels well.
It sort of veer away fromanything super creamy when I'm
picnicking, just because whenyou know if it gets warm, no one
really wants to eat somethinglike that.
You know what I mean.
I love mayonnaise, like it's myfavorite, truly my favorite
condiment, but I don't want myeyes on a picnic.
James Cave (20:20):
That's a good point.
Colu's got a new cookbook onthe way Also.
She's been working on it.
She told me it's likely comingout in the spring of 2026.
Colu Henry (20:42):
Now the title's still a bit of a secret but I
wondered if there was anythingin her new cookbook that might
be good for our picnic year.
Well, I have to ask is thereany sort of recipe that you
would have in the upcomingcookbook?
James Cave (20:47):
that might be good for picnics.
Yeah, I'm happy to give you thepotato salad recipe if you like
it.
Oh my God.
Well, I didn't want to be tooforward, but yes.
Colu Henry (20:50):
I'd love that one.
Yeah, you got it.
James Cave (20:54):
Okay, Murphy, I'll include a link to the recipe for
Colu Henry's Snappy and HerbyPotato Salad in my show notes.
It's got celery, fennel, springonion potatoes, of course.
It looks really, really good.
Also, if you haven't already,be sure to subscribe to Colu's
fantastic newsletter, Colu Cooks, I have a link to do so in my
show notes as well.
Okay, we're going to take aquick break, but Matthew and
(21:16):
Colu both mentioned wine as animportant picnic component.
So when we come back, whatwe'll do?
We'll head out to talk with aSomalier to learn about her
picks for the picnic.
Okay, Murphy, stay with us.
I'll be right back.
Hey, it's me, james Cave.
I'm the head voice of the JamesCave Instagram feed podcast.
We call it the Jiffy, and I'mjumping in here to tell you that
(21:36):
this episode is brought to youby Word of Mouth.
Word of Mouth that's what'sworking here, if you think about
it, with the audio podcasts,when you're hearing me talk,
that's words from my mouth, butit's also what helps this
podcast to grow.
So, if you like it, could youdo me a favor and share it with
a friend, Tell them to give it alisten and then, if they like
(21:58):
it, have that friend, tellanother friend.
It really helps this podcastgrow and right now that's what I
really need if I ever want toget sponsored someday.
So, thank you, tell a friend totell a friend about the Jiffy
Audio Newsletter Podcast.
All right, that's all.
That's all I needed to say.
Now back to the show.
Welcome back, Murphy.
(22:19):
Okay, as you just heard beforethe break, matthew and Calou
might not agree on mayonnaise'splace in your picnic, but they
definitely agree on a keyingredient Wine, of course.
Talk about wine and, as ithappens, I know a sommelier, the
genuine artifact, who can helpus out.
Her name's Rachel Miriam.
Hey, good afternoon.
Oh, hey, rachel, how's it going?
(22:40):
Well, how are you?
I'm good, and she's the ownerof Fulton Forbes, a beautiful
wine and spirits shop in Anchor,new York.
What are some talking pointsand questions that somebody
should probably think aboutasking to identify what might be
the best?
Rachel Merriam (22:54):
I think what wines you want to keep going
back to.
You don't want anything tooheavy and you want something
fresh and bright.
It's just nothing that feelsweighted on you.
Because it's 85 degrees, you'reout in the sun, hopefully
you're by a lake, you're gettinga little bit of a breeze, but
after that you want somethingthat is cooling and refreshing.
(23:14):
So just anything in thatcategory.
If we're packing picnic wines,we want to pack wines that are
probably on the colder sidebecause we're going to be
outside.
We want something that's thirstquenching and something we want
to keep going back to.
So I definitely have some goodwhites, maybe something a little
effervescent if we wanted to go.
(23:35):
There are chillable reds.
Chillable reds is 100% acategory, but all reds can't be
chilled.
It needs to be a light,refreshing wine with bright
acidity going on to it, maybe alittle bit of bubble, like I was
saying before.
That is the perfect crushable,chillable red.
We can't be chilling.
You know something from theNapa Valley or Sonoma?
(23:58):
You know, not all reds arecreated equal.
James Cave (24:01):
In terms of practicality.
You want a good picnic.
You're thinking practicality,Are there any wines or anything
that you could think about thatmight travel particularly well?
Rachel Merriam (24:11):
Yeah, there's also amazing ready to drink
cocktails out there, which isgreat that travel really well.
There's some delicious wine incanned format that also travel
really well, and some box winetoo that travels really well,
sometimes a little bit harder toget cold.
Maybe you just do away with thebox and throw the bag in the
cooler A little bit easier andsave some room.
(24:33):
But yeah, those definitelytravel really well and the
product has gotten a lot betterover time.
James Cave (24:41):
Yeah, I love that.
I think maybe going with aliter bottle or like a box wine
without the box.
It's interesting tips.
And then are there any certainwines that like specifically
that you might recommend?
Like what are some good winecategories that we could look
into?
Rachel Merriam (24:58):
Definitely so.
Perfect picnic wines, for me atleast.
Vino Verde, coming fromNorthern Portugal.
They usually comes under screwcap, not always, but it's the
best.
You pop that screw cap and youget that lovely, satisfying,
because there's a little bit ofeffervescence, a little bit of
bubble in there and then also inthe same vein, but coming from
Spain, from San Sebastian, isTxakoli, yeah how do you spell
(25:21):
that?
James Cave (25:21):
That is a new one to me.
Rachel Merriam (25:23):
T-X-A-K-O-L-I Txakoli.
So in Basque T-X is pronouncedEnglish C-H-H.
James Cave (25:30):
Tell me about these wines.
Rachel Merriam (25:32):
What makes them so great for this?
Because so they're low inalcohol, which is perfect.
You know, if we're cooking outin the sun enjoying a picnic, we
don't want anything that getsus too drunk too quick.
So they sit around like 9% 11%,depending on the producer
Bright, bright, bright acidity.
It's not heavy on the palate atall, it's just like drinking
lemon water A lot of it's spawater, Honestly.
(25:54):
It's just in a wine bottlePerfect.
A lot of it's spa water,honestly it's just wine, a wine
bottle, perfect.
James Cave (26:00):
okay, Murphy, are you still with us?
So far, I've given youinformation on how to appraise a
vintage picnic basket, how topack your picnic basket, uh,
whether or not you want to bringmayonnaise, we've also got you
kaloo, henry's potato salad andnow the perfect wines to bring.
There's just one more thing Iwant to show you.
If you remember, back at theHillsdale General Store, matthew
(26:22):
mentioned that having talentedfriends can go a long way to
adding a good ambiance for yourpicnic.
Well, luckily for you, I knowTom Grattan.
He's a novelist.
He's published two novelsalready.
He's already walking on histhird, but he's also the
official book reader for theJiffy podcast, and so I wanted
to know if Tom had anyrecommendations for short
(26:43):
stories that might be great tobring along on your next picnic,
Murphy.
So here we go.
Here's Tom on some short storyrecommendations.
So, hey, I'm here at Tom'shouse, I swear.
You usually get our seasonalreading lists, but this is a
special request because I'mtrying to build a picnic Tom.
(27:03):
I'm trying to build this picnicexperience, a picnic basket
with food and stuff, but I alsofeel like bringing a good book
around or bringing a short storyor something might be important
to a full picnic experience.
I was wondering if you had anyrecommendations on things that I
might be able to read or bringalong, if you had any thoughts
there about what to bring.
Tom Grattan (27:21):
Yes, I have a couple If you sort of want to
bring kind of a funny story toit.
I was thinking when you hadmentioned short stories for a
picnic I somehow imagined itbeing read out loud.
And there are a couple that arefunny and caustic and really
smart but also have a lot ofemotion to them.
But I think would just be greatto bring to a picnic and read.
(27:44):
The first is a story by LaurieMoore called You're Ugly Too,
which is about a collegeprofessor in the Midwest
visiting her younger sister inNew York for Halloween and this
disastrous visit and thisridiculous Halloween party and
it's really hilarious and it's abeautiful character study.
But also Laurie Moore if you'veread her at all, she is wildly
funny and so the humor in thatstory is great.
Another is also both funny andreally poignant.
(28:06):
It's by a Hudson Valley writer,Marie- Helene Bertino.
It's from her book Exit Zerothat just came out a few months
ago and the story is called CanOnly Houses Be Haunted and it
begins a weekend away withfriends and this couple is
bickering and they're bickeringsort of just moves in these
(28:26):
surprising kind of surrealdirections.
But it is really funny.
She gets sort of the I've spenta long weekend with a bunch of
random people and my partnerdoesn't get how frustrating.
This is sort of the vibe ofthat like that fight you have at
the end of a long weekend witha bunch of random people, and my
partner doesn't get howfrustrating.
This is sort of the vibe ofthat, like that fight you have
at the end of a long weekendwith a partner.
It's so well done and so smartand so funny, so that's great.
My third recommendation is verydifferent.
(28:47):
It's a really quiet, beautifulinterior story but it takes
place in the summer and it'scalled Getting Closer by Stephen
Milhauser, and the whole storyis this young kid, I think he's
like nine or 10.
And he and his family in thesummer, as they sometimes drive
to this river where you can goswimming, and they have a picnic
and it's his favorite thing todo, and the whole story is
(29:07):
really him getting there andhe's about to get into the river
, but he feels like as soon ashe does that this experience
that he's so excited about willstart to end.
And it's really about how wedeal with things.
We love being really ephemeraland how sometimes we don't start
things because we're afraidthey'll end and time passing and
(29:27):
it's a really beautiful storyand it's a whole story.
He's mostly just standinglooking at a river and it's such
a gorgeous story and it's areally beautiful character study
and the fact that it takesplace.
I think maybe the Housatonic itmight be that river.
James Cave (29:38):
That's why I've been really hesitant to go on a
picnic, frankly, because I knowit's going to have to end.
Tom Grattan (29:49):
Right, and so the story and I think it's a young
person realizing somethingreally complicated about life is
that you have this thing.
It's almost like that Christmasmorning feeling you both want
to open the presents but thatyou know once you open them then
you don't have Christmas foranother year.
So then there's.
So it's this, it's this reallyinteresting balance between such
excitement and such fear ofletdown, and I think he captured
(30:10):
it so beautifully in that storyand it's just and it's really,
and I think it's only seven oreight pages long, so it's
something you could read sittingtogether by a river and feel
all your feelings together.
James Cave (30:22):
So there you have it , everything you could possibly
need to host the world's mostultimate Hudson Valley picnic of
all time.
Anytime you have a question forme here at the James Cave
Instagram feed or the podcast,all you have to do is hit that
link in the show notes and youcan send me a text directly.
It's so easy to do and we'lllearn some things together, such
(30:44):
as one of the themes of thisepisode seemed to be on the
passage of time and the fleetingnature of summer.
So, just like the seasons, Isuppose this episode has to come
to an end at some point.
Well, that's where we are.
I want to thank you forlistening all the way through,
and I also want to thank MatthewWhite, Betsy Jacks, Colu Henry,
Rachel Miriam, Tom Grattan and,of course, Murphy, my anonymous
(31:05):
listener.
As for me, I'm James Cave, anduntil next time I'll see you
over on the Instagram feed.
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