Faith, Grief, and Transformation: A Conversation with Leah Chrest (Ep. 122)

Episode Transcript
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Unknown (04:26):
Alright, hey folks,
this is Joe Roos. It is nineteen
oh five hours, Tuesday, 07/15/2025,
and we are transmitting to you live
from the asylum studios
deep in the bowels of Southwest Texas,
the beautiful city of Eagle Pass, and bringing you the best quality talk radio we could muster without all the bluster.

(04:52):
Welcome
to the Joe Ruse Show.
Alright, folks.
It is absolutely fantastic to be with you guys again tonight.
Really, really enjoyed being here with you, you know. It's like I look forward to this all day long,
especially when we have great guests lined up and we have one of our guests is already waiting in the wings to join us here.

(05:14):
But before we get into that, just some really quick housekeeping stuff that I'd like to get out of the way
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And while I'm queuing all that up over here, let me just say, I hope you guys had a great day today.
Down here in Eagle Pass, it is a, a beautiful 96 degrees,
beautiful sunny skies.

(05:34):
And, guess what I get to do after the show tonight?
Well, folks, if you guessed having to go back to work, you're absolutely correct. So we're gonna try to keep it down to the hour tonight and,
try to get out of here on time and, so I can go take care of that the little issue we got going on there.
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help us out by getting over to our
affiliate links. We are affiliated with the alexjonesstore.com.
So you can head over to the alexjonesstore.com/joe.
And as you guys know, I've been talking about this all the time. I love this product. I take a number of the products. I wouldn't be advertising it for you if I wasn't actively taking these things and knowing that they work. And and, you know, I'm I I wouldn't push them on you if if it, was something that was gonna hurt you, and it's not. So this stuff is really good.

(07:41):
You know, I've been taking the ultimate irisin loss, the turmeric,
just recently started taking the Shilajit, which is amazing. And if you gotta try the Shilajit,
And then, of course, my ultimate favorite product is the
Ultra
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Blue. And I have my Ultra Methylene Blue right here.
And as, like I always say, every time I get a fresh a fresh supply of this stuff, we like to have the first

(08:06):
sampling of it with you guys right here on the show. So salute. Here we go.
Oh, that's so good, and it's so refreshing.
I just have it in regular, spring water,
some ice. Oh, it is so good. Good for you too. And it has that natural, vanilla and and mint flavor to it, which takes away kinda takes away or hides that methylene flavor that you would get, but this stuff is great. Also got my $17.75

(08:37):
coffee right here, and so I am ready to go. We're gonna get into this now.
Today's guest,
Leah Crest,
brings us a conversation about faith,
grief,
and transformation that's anything but typical.
Leah is a Christian author. She's a lay preacher, a med, meditation teacher who's

(08:57):
deep dive into over 500 near death experiences, reshaped her understanding of eternity and her relationship with God.
And, her first book, At the Edge of the Jordan, draws from years of research into NDEs
or near death experiences, and invites the readers to, live in in light of what comes next.
Then just one day after its release, Leah's world changed forever. Her husband of thirteen years passed away.

(09:25):
Her second book, It's Okay to be Okay, follows her journey through grief into deeper peace, joy, and purpose.
From mystical experiences to practical meditation, from parenting to presence, from heaven to the here and now,
We are looking forward to sitting down and having this conversation,
and we know that it's gonna be rich with wisdom and wonder and with a quiet strength of surrender. So folks, I'd like you to welcome Leah Crest to the Joe Russo. Leah, are you out there?

(09:54):
Hey. I think I got it on. You got it on. You're good to go. I forgot to turn the banner off for this for the, for the plug there. So we got that taken care of. The joys of doing a live show, you have these little itty bitty things that just that you don't notice until the very very last second there. Yeah. This is my first live show, so, you know, that was pretty cool. That's awesome. Methylene blue, I gotta ask. What what is that?

(10:14):
A methylene blue? This is a this is a wonderful wonderful product. It affects everybody differently. Basically, what it does is like a cleanse at the mitochondrial level, the cellular level.
It gives you a great
even steady energy. It's not like an energy drink that you drink. You get all jittery and twittery, and, you know, and then you eventually crash. This stuff just kinda lingers all day. And again, it affects everybody a little bit different.

(10:37):
For me, what it does, what I've noticed it does is, about thirty minutes after after taking it, I'll get,
I kinda break out to a little bit of a sweat, you know, which is kinda interesting.
And you kinda feel like this,
get this like a it's like an electrical feeling down your hands, your your fingers, and all that stuff. And Uh-huh. And then from there, it just kinda goes into like this very probably the easiest way to describe it is like a like a meditative calm.

(11:03):
You know, it's it's really it's great. And plus, it like I said, it gives you that energy, so you can't just
just sit around and do nothing. You feel like you need to be doing something, but you're not all hyped up and jittery and and what. So everybody but everybody's different. Some people say it clears up, like, brain fog, like, almost instantly.
Other other people say, one gentleman said that,

(11:24):
he actually felt like he was lighter
after he after he took it the first time. And then there were people who say that doesn't do anything for them, you know, which is which is fine. But for me, I love it. It's a great product, and we have it up on our affiliate site with, Alex Jones. And what I didn't tell the audience, which they already pretty much know, but any every purchase that you make 10% comes right back here to the show to help us pay for everything. So it's a it's a it's a great little product, and then of course I take their Shilajit, I take their,

(11:52):
which is just an amazing product that goes so well with the that that meditative type,
energy that you get from this from the methylene blue.
And then, I take the the turmeric, which is great, of course, you know, if you have arthritis and things like that, joint swelling, which I have. So,
so I take that. And I take the Irish sea moss, which is a great iodine supplement, which is fantastic.

(12:14):
So Right. It's really good stuff. And like I said, I I would not tell people or recommend this stuff to people if I wasn't taking it myself.
There is there is a ton of supplements on the website that you could you could try, you could buy.
I don't mention them because I haven't taken them all yet, so I don't know. Right. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna tell somebody, yeah, dude, I take it. It's great for you. And end up in the hospital. We don't wanna do that,

(12:35):
you know. But, Of course not. But I always tell people as well too, if you're taking anything like,
like antidepressants
or anything along those lines, do not
take this.
Do not use this, the methylene blue.
It it there is a contraindication
for antidepressants
with the properties of methylene blue. And if you are taking those and you wanna try this, talk to your doctor first,

(13:01):
and see what else you can do. Because this, you you will not feel well
shortly after that. So, so that's that's that's the pitch. That's the pitch. So Leah,
I always like to start off, I always wanna ask
this basic question to everybody, kinda gets you comfortable, gets the audience comfortable with you.
What is something that most people don't know about you but should?

(13:24):
Wow. Everybody says that.
Yeah. Yeah. I wasn't for that one.
Don't know about so I'm one of those really open people that, you know, it's it's like the ongoing joke. It's like you can't, there's nothing you can't ask me that I won't give an answer for as long as it's protecting other people's privacy. Of course. You know? That that's that's kinda my rule.

(13:45):
You know,
I'm gonna go with, the athletic side of me Okay. That I was an absolute
like, the last pick. I was that kid that, you know, was the absolute last pick from kindergarten through
early high school. Okay. You know, I I had everything. And, I'm a mom of two boys, stepmom to one boy and a girl. So I have a lot of boys in my life. Nice. And, it's amazing, the athletics.

(14:10):
Like, I I'm probably look around. I'm like, wow. Everybody else my age, like the women, I I can just I can take them out as far as I'm. That's great. So it's a complete and I actually have some skills, you know, basketball, baseball, you know, you name it. I can I can do a little? BJJ, I can do a little bit of everything. Nice. Just as you know, it's funny. I I tell my, my kids, like, don't write yourself off. You know? Whatever you are at any age

(14:34):
can change. You aren't labeled. They're my high school students that I teach. You know? Oh, that's great. Labeled and pinned pigeonholed into this. You can be anything. So Oh, that's great. That's just a random thing that I don't share on many podcasts. There you go. Okay. Well, we're folks, you heard it here first. So now screen grab that, copy it, stretch it out, do whatever you gotta do with it, clip it, cut it, and we'll we'll run that on the on the website, you know. I'm kidding. I'm teasing.

(14:57):
So, so okay. Second part of that is, what's your go to beverage to unwind at the end of the day?
You know, I'm just a water girl. I I drink I I am a 100% water all the time.
And my husband will give me a sparkling water, and that's the real treat because I have a sparkling water.

(15:18):
But every once in a like, in a hot, like, a hot chocolate, like, a really good hot chocolate on a cold winter's night is probably the only thing I'll do. Maybe a cup of tea. So yeah. I'm pretty boring when it comes to beverages. See, everybody says that. Everybody that I ask that question to says the same, oh, just water.
Yeah. Okay. Sure.
No. Seriously. Well, And I believe you. I'm Yeah. No. It really it really is I have no reason not to believe you. It's okay.

(15:43):
Well, given my history, you know, my husband died from alcoholism. Oh, I'm sorry to hear that. I don't look into that stuff. No. I I hear you. I hear you. So sorry. Legit truth on that. For for me, I I I I love coffee. I drink coffee all day long.
Even at night, I see you with the methylene now and the coffee. Well, yeah. Well, this this believe it. The methylene oh, that's the other thing too with the methylene blue. You can drink this anytime of the day and it it won't affect your sleep.

(16:09):
In in in the regard that you you won't have fitful sleep, but it gives you some wild dreams.
So so be careful with that. But the coffee, yeah. No. I I worked in law enforcement for twenty
five years
up in the up in New York, and I worked overnight shifts, and we would get those big giant,

(16:30):
like, 32 ounce black coffees and just drink those things all night. So I'm, like, immune to it.
But, I love I love my coffee in the morning, afternoons, evenings, and in in my family, I come from an Italian family.
My grandmother was very very strict with every day at 03:00,
it was coffee and cake.
Every day without food. I love the cake part of that. Yeah. Yeah. Coffee is growing on me. It's it's my husband's a big coffee drinker. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And when we when we met, he was just like, come on. Just try a sip. And I don't like coffee. I like the smell. Just try. Just smell it. And now he has me, like, once every two weeks, he'll brew me a cup, and I actually really like it. So That's good. This is bedtime drink too sometimes. Oh, yes. Absolutely. I I can drink a pot of coffee and go right to sleep with no problem.

(17:14):
Doesn't matter. Some people are that way. Yeah. It's it's the immunity. That's great. It's the immunity. But, one of the things I love too is,
and and again for people that are watching, listening, I I plug seventeen seventy five coffee, which is, Rumbles coffee.
And, like, do you really drink that? Yes. I do. I actually do. I I I get the coffee beans. I ground I grind it up myself,

(17:38):
and probably
the best day in my house is when it's delivery day, and I get my my bags of coffee beans because when I when you bring it in the house from from from the mailbox, and you put on that table, and then all of a sudden you just smell the coffee coming through that. Oh, it is so good. I love
it. I love my coffee. I love it. It's alright. Okay. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Alright. So It's all good. It's all good. So I wanted to ask you. So so you describe your your early, faith as,

(18:04):
Pascal's wager, which which is very interesting. Because I I've heard that before and,
not
not not a lot of people know what that is, believe it or not.
So, why don't why don't you tell us a little bit about what shifted you toward the all in spirit led relationship with God.
So to define Pascal's wager, for anyone who hasn't heard what that is, the idea is

(18:28):
if God exists and I believe in him,
that's a good situation.
Mhmm. If God exists and I don't believe in him,
well, according
to certain denominations of Christianity, that's a really bad position to be in. Mhmm.
If I don't believe in God I'm sorry. If I if he's real if he's not real I'm sorry. If he's not real and I believe in him, then I'm a better person maybe for it. Right? And I probably have a better life. Mhmm.

(18:55):
And if he doesn't exist and I even him, then, oh, well, it doesn't really matter. So you kinda go the the better side of the four situations, you're gonna end up in the plus
pretty much regardless if you believe. And so that's kinda what I went with, but it just wasn't satisfying
for me because it's just curiosity. If nothing else, it's curiosity. It's okay. If God exists and he's as good as I hear that he is, I want a real relationship with this.

(19:22):
I don't want this to be just I go to church on Sunday and I check the box and I say some prayers and hope it works. And, you know, I wanted something deeper than that. And,
my grandfather who is, one of the characters
most people when they write fiction books, they don't put themselves or the people they know in it directly. They might be it feeds into it. I mean, how can you not write what you know? But, I do have my grandfather is exactly as he is in the book is who he is and, that I knew him because he meant such a so much to me that I had to put him in the story somehow.

(19:52):
Yeah. And he was a man of of great faith, and I watched the way he handled the death of my grandmother
Mhmm. And how he
just kept going with such positivity and grace and how he even handled the grieving portion
with such grace,
and dignity. And
he was not afraid to cry,

(20:14):
You know? But he was also just so joyful.
Yeah.
And he went through cancer, you know, all the things that 80 year old
men, you know, can sometimes happens, these things, and,
went through with such grace. And just
I knew that his faith was real. It wasn't just, I mean, Pascal's wager. He really believed, and his faith carried him. And that just

(20:38):
really made me curious. I wanted to find out why.
Right?
And I wanted myself.
And I, you know, I don't know the full story, but, yeah, I went and said, Poppy, why?
What is it that's it's holding you
to this in a way that is you're so convinced. You're convinced that a shadow of a doubt. And, you know,

(21:02):
most people most of the relatives didn't get the full story,
but,
little snippets
of the things that had happened.
And one of them was a heaven is for real story that's really interesting.
My so his
great granddaughter,
so my cousin's daughter, was born into her dad was,

(21:24):
bipolar and unmedicated,
and,
a good man, but
with the the swings of his emotions,
was physically abusive Mhmm. To
his, wife and daughter
and, for was a baby. You know? Not not anymore. Not that way at all anymore, but there were some tough years there. And when she was, like, one and a half, two, three, somewhere in that range,

(21:47):
she came over, the the great granddaughter, to my grandfather's house and saw a picture of my grandmother who was deceased at that time. It was a picture of her when she was, like, 18 to 20, somewhere in that range. K. So not how we remembered her, but, you know, how my grandfather wanna remember her as this young person that he married.

(22:07):
And
she walks in and points at the photo and says,
you know, who is that?
And,
my grandfather
said, oh, and started to explain.
She said, oh.
And she said, oh, she passed away. And he said, oh, I know.
Said she came to my room,
and she told me how she died. She hit her head. And she she told my grandfather how my grandmother had had passed,

(22:32):
and it was that it was so, of course, because my grandmother
really deeply cares for the family. She's the matriarch, and that little girl needed help. She needed that encouragement at that point in her life. Right? You know, things were really tough for her and having that love present.
You know? And in moments like that,
and then with the cancer treatment, he he just said when he would go in for the radiation treatments,

(22:57):
he would be nervous and he'd pray, and he just had this calm come over him and protect him. And so these stories just made me think,
you know, wow. Maybe there's something to this. Maybe there's something more than
than what I understand, and I need to figure this out. Oh, that's interesting.
What do you think your grandfather meant when he said, when you've seen what I believe when you've seen what I've seen, how could you not believe?

(23:22):
Yeah. So so those sorts of instances, that calm, you know, when he
when he feels that deep calm when you pray and something changes.
You know? And that that Okay. Yeah. I see. Discernible presence, I think, is a lot of it.
You know, he had a couple other stories that I'm not through, but there are a couple other things that happened that could not be explained otherwise,

(23:42):
you know, that he had he had had. And,
Yeah. I think I think that's
what it was. And I've since
you know, the funny part of that when he said that, I my response was I wanna have that. And he said, I'm almost 90.
You're not even 30 at the time. I'm 40 now. You give it time. And he's absolutely right. I think sometimes it's just

(24:04):
we have to go through things and to feel God carrying us.
Oh, I agree with you. Agree with you.
Yeah. I have another interesting way of of explaining, Pascal's wager, and that is,
and I've used this before and because I I I think through our messages back and forth prior to the show, I told Joanie, I'm a I'm a blood bought born again King James Bible, even Christian. Yeah. And,

(24:25):
my actually, my my my born again date's coming up, July 20. I'll be 25.
So Congratulations. So that's great. Happy birthday. Oh, thank you so much. Appreciate it. You know, I I'd rather celebrate the 20 birthday than the 50 birthday that's coming up. So so I'd rather do you know, I'll I'll enjoy the 20. So when people ask me how old I am now, I said, tell them 24. I'll be 25 in a couple weeks, you know. Good. So,

(24:48):
the one of the ways that I've explained it, and I've done this
a few times in in in sharing the gospel with folks and and and talking about their souls is, you know, I I put it in the in the picture of a wager
of a bet.
Alright? Now, you're a gambling person, you you you play the odds and things like that, you know. Sometimes just say yes, sometimes say no. Okay. Well, let me let me put it to you this way.

(25:14):
I would rather take the chance
of
believing in God,
believing in
the the
the value of my soul,
and believing
in eternity
with God in heaven by putting my fill faith trust in Jesus Christ,
then not. Because

(25:35):
if I'm wrong, and I've put all my faith and trust in God, I've lived a decent life.
But if I'm wrong but if
if
I'm wrong
or if I oh, yeah. How I'm I'm lost. I lost my train of thought. So if I'm wrong then, the odds are that that I end up in hell.

(25:56):
I'd rather play the odds that I I'd rather be with the Lord than not with the Lord. I'd rather be in glory than be in hell, and, if you're So if I'm right,
I'll be I'll be in heaven with the Lord. If you're right, if you'll be in eternity in in hell.
So which one would you rather be? I'd play the odds and say, okay, well, I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna try this out. And the worst case scenario is I lived a good life. And if there's nothing after this, fine, I go into oblivion. But if you're wrong, then you end up in hell. So

(26:25):
that's kinda how I would explain Pascal's wager. So it's not exactly the same thing, but it's along those lines. It's very similar. Yeah. It is. Yeah. I had somebody actually, I had somebody,
do that in front of me, which which kind of inspired me to try it out. And he did it so professionally. Like, he was like,
didn't stutter on it. He just boom boom boom boom boom. And I I was so impressed by that, so I tried to remember it as much as I could. And I've used it a few times. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But, one of the things I'm really interested in is, the, the near death experiences.

(26:55):
Alright? I've never had one personally,
but I know people who have. And I've seen I've seen it affect them in in some really profound ways.
Some for the good, and some not for the good.
You've read over 500
near death experiences.
What are what are some of the more powerful insights that those experience have given you? And and how did they shape you your your thinking when it came to at the edge of the Jordan?

(27:24):
Yeah. So first of all, reading them convinced me that it was real. Mhmm. It gave me the rational
understanding that God was real. Like, I just couldn't explain away
some of what I read. There are
if you were to just go read, like, 20 different near death experiences
as I first did before
I went to I read, like, 20. And at first, I was thinking, you know, there's so many

(27:47):
things that don't line up between people's experiences. But then when I delved in a lot deeper, I realized that the truth is the same in all of them, almost almost across the board. The differences come in vanity
because someone who has,
like my grandfather who
was slowly phasing out and across to the other side is gonna have a very different experience

(28:09):
crossing over than someone who's in a car accident. Sure. And is and is shocked or just totally blown away or
and
just your beliefs about god can affect it. Mhmm. You know, where or what makes you comfortable. You know?
If you were to be offered a beverage in heaven and, you know,
someone walked up to you with hot chocolate, Joe, you know, you might be like, this isn't heaven. Get get me out of here. Yeah. Yeah. Be able to be. You know? And so I think it I think it's that and it's those little things I was looking at. I think, well, it doesn't line up. It's not the same place. This person saw a field. This person saw just a white light. And this isn't the same thing. It should all be the same, and and that's not true. But when you look at the general overarching truth,

(28:51):
there's a couple things that come up again and again that I think inform our our Christian faith, quite a bit as well and deepen it.
The first is how deeply loved we are.
Okay.
I think
we sometimes as Christians, especially evangelical Christians, can focus too much on fear,
fear of falling away from God, fear of,

(29:13):
going to hell.
I'm reading a it's a Catholic,
Padre Pio who lived in the, early nineteen hundreds.
And even on his right before he died, he was still afraid
of hell that he would go to hell, that he wasn't safe. This was a man who had the stigmata. I mean, he had the the the nail holes in his hands and his I mean, miracles
he performed on people. Couldn't be much closer to god than that, and he was still afraid. And, in the NDEs, there's no fear.

(29:39):
God is pure
love, and we are so much more loved
than we can imagine.
There's this, one beautiful NDE that I read that,
the woman was shown a little girl,
and she just felt this unbelievable, just overpowering love for this little girl. And she's walking off. It was Jesus, but or an angel that she was walking with seeing this little girl.

(30:04):
And,
after she was just overcome by this
love for this child,
she was told that little girl is you.
And that's how
God sees you.
Oh, wow. Just this absolute just just flood of, care and compassion.
On the flip side, you know,
there fear, but there is

(30:24):
accountability. There's absolutely accountability.
You know, a couple people said if
someone who had
murdered a lot of people or, you know, had done things that Bill will,
Their
review of their life
would be truly hell.
Because not only do you have to relive

(30:47):
your experience of it, but you relive the experience of the victim.
And so you have to feel what it feels like on the other side. However, with that said, if you've already
come to terms with what you did and are truly sorry and you've repented, you never have to look at it. It's washed away because you've learned the lesson. God is not in the business of shaming and blaming.

(31:08):
God's in the business of redeeming,
and it's all about coming
learning and growing and and becoming more of the heart of Christ. And so that's what it's all about. So the whole life review is, and it changes the perspective of what's important. You know? Some people some souls came back and said, you know, all these things that I thought were important that I was expecting to see.

(31:29):
And I saw that time that I, picked up a worm and put them on the in the grass.
Really? That's what you focus on, god? You know? That was my highlight of my life was the worm. I did all this. I I I I preached. I did these things. I helped these people, and it was this a deep compassion. It's a genuine heart
that that matters. And and Warren was not one of them, but there was something very similar, like watering a plant or something that can't I I get you. There because there's there's that passage of scripture that that, that Jesus taught in the gospels,

(32:00):
that, you know, even if even if even if a sparrow falls
Yes. You know, God knows.
You know, all, you know, the very hairs in your head are numbered. I mean, obviously, for some people it's
more than others, but, you know, he even numbers the hairs in your head. So he knows intimately
about you, and and the things that that that are important to to you are not necessarily important to God.

(32:23):
Right. So that's that's a that's a very valuable lesson, and that's that's that's incredible that she experienced that. I had one experience when I was a kid, and it was very strange.
It wasn't an NDE or anything like that. It was,
and I don't know if it's because I was just so I was contemplating this. I had a very,
I I I I idolized an uncle of mine growing up, and and he, he got involved.

(32:47):
He left the family religion, you know, the Catholic church, and he, he was the first one to step away that I knew of anyway.
And, he ended up becoming a pastor of a denomination. I'm not gonna mention which one it is because I've I've learned some really horrible things about it and, you know, I don't wanna disparage anybody's beliefs at this moment. Not that I really care, to be quite honest with you. This is one of those shows where, you know, we just say what we gotta say. We don't, you know, let the chips fall where they may. But,

(33:11):
I'm not in the mood to pick a fight tonight. So so let's so I'll be I'll be I'll be nicer. I'll be less curmudgeonly.
The,
but, you know, I remember I would talk to him quite a bit,
about spiritual things.
And, I I for a few nights, I had these these really intense
dreams that I was even as a

(33:33):
child, I was someplace and there were two figures. And the one that stood out to me the most is that I was in this place, there was just these two figures
standing off in the distance.
Couldn't make out any features that just looked like black, you know, just like shadows standing out there.
One
jumping around like a lunatic, you know, trying to, like like

(33:53):
like, pull me over this way, and the other one was just standing there just
not moving.
And,
and I I remember in the dream,
again, as I was a kid, I was maybe
eight,
10 years old the most.
The the the the the one figure that was standing off to the side,

(34:15):
very very still, very calm,
at one point just turned to the one that was flailing about and said, he's mine.
And I woke up, and that was it.
And and I remember I spoke I went to my uncle about that, and I told him about it, and you know, he didn't really give me anything profound or anything about it. He was like, well, you know, something you gotta pray about, and see what see what the Lord tells you. And I was like, okay, do that. And over time, I've realized that, you know, I what I think was, and I I spoke to other other people about this too. It it it was

(34:49):
at what I was dreaming about was a spiritual issue. It was
the the calm
Son of God, Jesus Christ,
and the devil fighting to get control over me, and just that one moment where he just looks at his mind,
that came from the Lord himself.

(35:09):
It it it it really had an impact on me. And so so things like you're saying it with these NDEs, I I can understand it. Like it wasn't an NDE,
but
in a lot of ways, it's very similar to what a lot of NDEs that I've been reading about
experience. They have that they see those those types of,
things going on in the spirit world, and, it can have a very profound effect on you.

(35:31):
Very profound effect. You know, Joe, this is something I've never shared with anyone except for maybe my children, and
maybe this is a really random, but I had a dream. This was back when my husband was, deep in his alcoholism, and, it was things were difficult. He got sober at the end of his life, and we'll touch on that maybe at some point. But,
I was feeling very emotionally alone at that time and very insecure.

(35:54):
And I had this dream, and in the dream,
I was, like, in a limo, but I was in my pjs, and my hair was everywhere. And, like, I don't I don't really do, like, the makeup thing. I mean, as you can see, I'm in the show right now. I'm just show up as me. But this was bad. Like, this was
you know, this is like a nightmare. If you were dreaming in a nightmare that you walked to work like this Right. That's what I look like. Okay? Okay.

(36:16):
And someone comes to the door, a very handsome gentleman, but I couldn't identify who it was. I just just known that it was someone appealing looking physically. Mhmm. Opens the door
and says,
she's mine, and isn't she beautiful?
And it was very similar in the sense that it was my soul.
It wasn't the physical because clearly that wasn't it. And it was that feeling of divine love of look. You don't need to do anything, be anything.

(36:44):
You're already loved that much. And I woke up feeling
I mean, it changed me for I mean, that that was one of those dreams, one of those experiences that changed me.
I've had, you know, a lot of other ones, but that that was one that just it's kinda similar to what you're saying, just that,
you know, I'm claiming you. This is not the shame, the unworthiness is not claiming you. Love is Right. Your mind. Exactly. And that's cool. Yeah. So what what do you think really waits for us after we die?

(37:12):
Well, first of all, we never stop growing.
Okay. You know that this is something that, you know, this is not the end, and whatever you end up with or you have someone you that you care about who's passed on and you feel like, I don't
know. They were kind of a mess.
That's not where they stay. You know? You keep growing on the other side, not only through the life review, but,

(37:34):
there are things that happen on the other side. I don't have time to go into everything. You can read and research these things, but we don't stop growing. It's not the end. We're still,
turned and grown into,
to the to the nature of Christ. That that's the goal, and we eventually reach there.
Yes. Things like seeing other people who've gone before you, that happens to many.

(37:56):
Yes. Seeing Jesus is something that happens to many. Yes. There are angels. Angels exist. I'm a 100% on that. Absolutely.
You know, because of everything that I've experienced, and I haven't personally seen an angel, but,
I've seen enough that I've I've I believe that's true.
And,
I think when you're on Earth, something that's gonna inform

(38:17):
is that when you're here, you're learning too. You know? God's growing you, and you gotta look for those common themes. Because if something keeps cropping up again and again and again,
I think you have to
look at that and say, alright, god. What am I what are you trying to show me here? What do I need to grow? What do I need to learn?
And, because those those lessons keep popping up again and again and again.

(38:41):
Another thing that happens on the other side, instead of talking like you and I are, Joe, it's telepathy.
You know, it's all we're on we're out of our we're in, like, illuminated body sort of thing, and, it's telepathic. And so there's no guesswork.
You know? I don't have to guess about how you feel about my pod about what I'm saying in this podcast. I would just know instantly. And it would just be the the feel everything is conveyed. And because everything is conveyed

(39:02):
and I truly believe if we had full telepathy,
so much of this stuff would just go away. That because we can't we have nothing to hide, and it's all our own fears and mass that make the problems. And so it immediately takes so much out because it's just transparent. It just it is what it is, and you immediately just kinda make peace with it. So that's the other thing that's kinda
of of what I what I noticed, was a common theme. So

(39:26):
yeah. That's interesting. I I gotta I gotta ponder that a little bit, but that's that's really interesting.
The lessons. Right? They're repeating lessons? Yeah. Exactly. Exactly.
There are bullet because I know I'm not the only one who says this. There are a lot of lessons that I would like to relearn and learn them the right way. There's also a lot of things that I've been through and done that I don't wanna have to learn again, and go back through and relive and even correct it. I just wanna kinda just sweep it under the rug and say, alright. Done deal. Let's just forget about this and just move on. But,

(39:55):
but I do I I do I do agree with you to the point that, you know, that that when we do reach eternity, we're we're gonna get the opportunity to relive a lot of things and see a lot of things that we've done.
And,
not that there's anything we can do to correct it,
but just to show or demonstrate
how

(40:15):
that decision
affected
this outcome, and that outcome affected the decision that you're gonna make based on that outcome, and so on and so forth.
And then to show you the options
that you could have that could have been should you have made
a better decision or a worse decision.
You know, I don't know if I'd wanna see the the the better options, you know, for some of the decisions that I've made. I would kinda be kinda scared to see, you know, how much better things in life would have been along the way, and not, you know, not experience some of the some of the heartbreak and stuff that you deal with.

(40:51):
So it's really interesting. I gotta I'm gonna have to have to kinda ponder that a little bit.
But You know, knowing that did change things, you know, for me. Exactly. It definitely showed me. It's like like you said, I don't wanna the things I wanna sweep under the rug and say, I just don't I'm just gonna shove it. It's like it's gonna come back. Yeah. If you wanna shove it, it's gonna come back. And if you just confront it in a way of submission
to that process of,

(41:12):
not only do you get to heal it and and learn from it, but it becomes a place of joy and peace, and you can teach and help others. And, so that's been kinda my MO the last few years is no sweeping under the rug. Like, we're just gonna deal with this stuff and grow from it as best we can. Yeah. And any challenge that comes in life, instead of saying, oh, cry.
Oh my god.
I just say, yay. Let's go. Another lesson. Right. Exactly. Exactly.

(41:35):
So, I wanted to ask you something about, about your husband, the your husband that passed away. And and I I don't and I hope that's not a sore subject for you, and I'm No. It's not. You're good.
But,
you said, you know, we know your husband passed away
rather suddenly.
How how

(41:55):
how did that loss
deepen your faith
other than instead of breaking your faith? And and the reason why I want them to know that is because,
my audience has heard me tell this a thousand times, so they're probably gonna shut me off at this point. But,
there there was a point where over the course of a year and a half, I went through a tremendous amount of loss.

(42:21):
And
it was and it it shook my faith,
You know? And I'm and I'm telling you, I'm a guy that I, you know, I when I got when I became a Christian, I got saved. You know, I went on fire for the Lord. I I wanted to to teach and preach, and
I did. I served as an associate pastor. I street preached. I still street preach from time to time, and,

(42:43):
I should do it more often. But,
you know, I
I've done things in my Christian life that I never thought I would ever do. Like, I I got the opportunity to preach,
up in Washington state in front of 400 lumberjacks, you know, which is a challenge to say the least, you know.
You know, I got to travel and and and meet people that I never would have thought I would have met.

(43:07):
I've got to talk about the Lord in places that I never would have thought I would have. You know, so it it it's been an an incredible, incredible journey. But
when I went through, I lost
in in like about a year and a half, I lost my dad, and then I lost my grandmother,
and then I lost my best my best little buddy,
and then,

(43:27):
my wife left me, and then
right after that my mother died. And all of that happened in a year and a half.
And Wow. It really it really affected me. It shook me to the core.
I got extremely bitter. I got angry, you know, and you know, I I had my Jeremiah moment where I told the Lord, I said, you know what? I've done all this stuff,

(43:48):
and this is what I get for it. I am never speaking your name again. I'm not gonna I'll go to church. I'll sit there. I'll listen. I'll, you know, I'll play the good part
and do my thing, but I will not talk to anybody about you and tell you and tell anybody
at at the, you know, what I thought was the lie that, you know, he doesn't love you. Look what he did to me. He doesn't love you. And and so,

(44:09):
it it was a very very dangerous place for me to be, you know. And
all the Lord did, because the Lord treats me like a little kid, you know. He just he listened to me, he pat he just pat me on the back of the head. He said, oh, okay. Here, this is what I want you to tell your audience next week. And sure enough, there I was doing my podcast again. Because I prior to this one, I was doing a bible study podcast. So,

(44:31):
you know, and I I was going through all this stuff and he was like, okay. Yeah. Alright, Joe. That's fine. Here. But this is what you're gonna talk about next week. And he gave me an outline for us for a message for a bible study. And he gave me another one, another one after that. He just ignores me at this point, but, you know, just let me say what I gotta say. But,
but it did affect me. It did hurt me. It did it did set me back, and I'm I was curious

(44:53):
how losing your husband
affected you.
How did that loss
deepen your faith instead of break you?
Yeah. Yeah. I guess, yeah, I'm an unusual case in in that situation.
So a little bit of backstory. I'll make it as brief as I can. My mother passed away when I was, like, one and a half, two months old. So, I did not know her consciously because, you know, most babies don't retain memories.

(45:23):
But, I did see the impact of my father. He remarried before, again, I had conscious memories. I was, like, one and a half two when he remarried. Okay. And that's the mom that I grew up knowing.
But I saw what he went through and that loss and how it affected him, and it was my greatest fear to lose my spouse. Like, that was terrifying.
You know, my husband and I had a really good relationship considering. I mean, yes,

(45:46):
the alcoholism was there. He was a very functional alcoholic, and he did get sober before he passed.
So we had four months together where he was sober, and I had my husband back. And it was beautiful.
And, you know, I think
I had had so many experiences before that that and he had too. My husband,

(46:09):
and
he was became an atheist for a while,
because of he just didn't feel like god heard him. Didn't have god wasn't listening.
And then he had some things. I guess you would call them spiritually transformative experiences. He didn't die or anything like that at that point.
But he had some experiences that completely
shifted

(46:30):
all the way back, and he said god's real
100%, and it and it changed him.
So, yeah, there were some tough years in there, but, you know, we ended on a on a beautiful, beautiful note. And he was he's supporting me in my writing.
I do wanna address, Joe, that at the edge of the Jordan and, again, I had not lost Brett at this point.
It was a day before he passed that I published it, and then I was writing it during, you know, about three years there.

(46:56):
The main character in the book
in the span of a year and a half lost,
sister, grandmother, grandfather.
Wow.
And, or a couple years. Yeah. And so
you can honestly, I read this book years ago, and I'm I'm rereading it, you know, here and again. And, especially if you're a guy, I would skip the first three or four chapters. It's a little slow,

(47:17):
get to the NDE part. Okay. But it does address those questions in in ways that I don't feel comfortable going to great detail here because it's kinda complex and convoluted. But, and it's evidence based. I'm going so some of the things may not align a 100% with Christian doctrine. I went with what I was seeing. What what like, scientifically, that's a good bit. If if I read five hundred and three hundred say this and 50 say this, I'm gonna go with 300 kind of thing.

(47:41):
But, but with that, you know, I I knew that when loss
with all my research, I knew that loss could be transformative.
I knew that loss can open us. We have a choice to either open
or shut down.
And because it it rips a hole through you. Sure. I mean, that person's there. I remember, you know, that that day that he passed, I'm driving to my mom, I'm not driving. I'm in the back seat, wedged between my two sons, and my parents are driving. They're taking me to their houses. I just couldn't be there in in my home at that point. I just was just not doing well. And, I said, please take me. I need to be out of the house for the night. And,

(48:17):
you know, they're joking and laughing with the kids, trying to keep the kids' spirits up, and all I can think is, oh, I wanna tell Brett this. I can't.
Like, because that, you know, it's just your lifeline. And, I mean, it just crushed me.
And I could have stayed that way. I could have shut down. I could have put that barricade up if I'm not gonna feel.
But instead, you know, people were telling me that day and over the next week, hey, this is gonna be the worst year of your life. Just try to survive.

(48:41):
That's all you need to do is just survive. And I I was like, no. I'm stubborn.
I said, no. God wants us to thrive, and I am thriving. I didn't say that, but that's what I told myself. I was like, no. I'm gonna lean into every lesson I can. I'm gonna lean hard into God, and I'm gonna let him show me what he can do with this.
And so

(49:01):
I wanted to what am I here to learn? I'm learn I'm here to be humble. I'm here to to grow in this. And,
the first thing is allowing those emotions to pass through. You know, don't bottle it up. Don't That's right. Shove it down. That
was the most hellish experience was that car ride because I thought I had to be strong for my kids.
I wasn't supposed to show. And I whatever. Like, if my kids saw me cry a little, they know yeah. We just they just lost their dad. It's okay. It's okay to be, and it allows them to say it's okay to cry. You know? And I was I was just bottling it. That's the only time I ever bottled it, and I'm so glad. You know? The kids saw me cry. They were allowed to cry. They were allowed to say how they felt.

(49:38):
A lot of times, I would just make a space. Like, in the evening, if something was bothering me throughout the day, I felt it come up. I would just sit and just put some music on. I knew it would bring the tears and just cry it out for thirty minutes, and I just feel so much better. You know? But then there's also the reframing.
There's trauma with grief. Reframing it. So every time I heard an ambulance go by instead of
the terror I would get, because, you know, the ambulance came to the house, you know, I just thought most times that ends well. Most times that person's getting help and is getting what they need and it's fine. Yeah. Breathe.

(50:06):
Pray for that person. Be done. Finding the positive and the negative.
What's that? Finding the positive and the negative.
Yes. And reframing it so that your brain, every time you see this or, you know, seeing blood, things like that that triggered me Sure. I'd be like, okay. That's this. Or just just reframe it to the positive as much as I could. Looking for joy. You know, even in that very first day, my my,

(50:27):
my cousin,
and her kids, they were playing at the pool when my kids joined them. And they were just we're sitting there, my cousin and I
talking. She's helping me through it. She was my maid of honor at my at my wedding. So she's you know, we're we're soul sisters, and she's just helping me through everything. And the kids are playing. I'm just saying, tell the holy spirit nudge or just just step back.
Right now is beautiful.

(50:48):
Look at what you have. Look at the network. Yeah. Look at your dear friend. Look at your kids. Look at their laughter. Hear
it and let it touch you. And then, giving is receiving. When we can give and serve, we receive so much more in return. And so getting out there, there was a, older woman who, had had a stroke at my church.
And, so my boys and I took her to church every Sunday for a while. And, you know, she just recently stopped being able to go for the last four years. You know, once a month Mhmm. We take her to church. And just creating those bonds, those things I could do. And the last thing is celebrate. I think

(51:25):
it's okay to be happy. It's okay to move on. And you also wanna celebrate. Like, there's not a day that goes by that I don't mention him in some way. And my husband knew that, like, my current husband. Sure. When he came into my life, it's like, daddy's gonna get celebrated. There's a picture of him in our hallway, of our family, the four of us, you know, my first husband and the kids and me. And that's always gonna be there because that's what the kids
that's their dad. Of course. And we talk about dad, and we talk about what daddy would do and what daddy would say and celebrate. We all have quilts made of his old clothes. Oh, nice. They call our daddy blankets. And we all each one of us has one. And it's just Oh, that's nice. Get those things up. They don't leave us. And my last little bit and this is a lot. I know. No. No. Sorry, Jenna. I'm gonna want you to talk after this.

(52:04):
The last thing is that they are there. I had a few moments, and I know that some people would be able to write these off and say, oh, that's just coincidence. Oh, that's just this. Oh, that's just that.
And I can't say I can't prove it to anyone.
But there were so many in a row that happened. I was like, yeah. He's reaching out in his own little way. Let me know he's okay. You know? And one of them was, his birthday was about five or six days after he passed away. Mhmm. We're going to my grandmother's house, and it was an hour and fifteen minute drive. And,

(52:33):
my kids at the time were into
country music,
and so I put on, you know, the country music for them. And if you listen to country music, and I get from Texas, so you you've gotta have heard country music at some point. If not, listen to it now.
Just a little bit.
You know, it's like your your truck dies, your dog dies, your girlfriend walks away. Yep. Or it's all the all that happy love stuff. Either way, it's love love. Oh, I I I went I lived I lived a year and a half of a of a country western song. So, you know, I just

(53:08):
So, I mean, this was just not emotionally healthy for me to be listening to this all the way up. And I was in I was a mess. It's my husband's birthday.
I'm feeling all this. We're at my grandmother's house. I am just
this is my second worst moment, I think, you know, in that recovery period.
And, we get back in the car on the way home, and I'm a giver. Like, just take care of my kids. If my kids want country, I'm putting on country. Right? Sure. I turn on the radio.

(53:32):
I've had the same car now for about six years. This is the only time it has ever done this.
I turn on the radio. It wouldn't start.
I pushed. I turned the car on and off. I tried again. I turned the volume fresh. I mean, nothing. Couldn't get anything on the GPS. Nothing. Wow. Nothing would work.
And so we rode home in in quiet, and, oh my gosh, that was lovely. I just needed to just be in peace and not be just bland with all this stuff. And, That's beautiful. You know, we we we pull in the driveway, and the radio turns back on again. Nice.

(54:02):
That's that's that's that's wild, man. That's that's wild. But, you know, that's what you needed, but that's what you needed at the time. You needed that moment of peace and quiet.
And I was given that. I swear that was him. He was like, nope. We're
this is off. We're you're not doing this right now. You need this instead. See, and that's great that that, you know, I I'm gonna poke some fun at it because I don't mean it to be disrespectful, but No. It's all good. But I'm gonna poke fun at it because I get the

(54:26):
same stuff with my mom and my dad, but they're not so nice about it. They they they let Oh, really? Yeah. No. They they let me know that they're around by by messing things up because they know how how ordered
I am with things. So they will intentionally move things around to where I can't find stuff, and I'm like, I know I just put that there. Where did it go? And then somehow, someway,
it would okay. Example. I have a I have an ice cube stamp. Alright? I'm I'm not special. I just I like those little things. So I have an ice cube stamp with my initials on it, and,

(54:56):
I keep it in the same exact spot
on the on the island of my kitchen,
never moves it, stays right there. I use it, I put it back, same spot. That's the way I am. Alright?
I can't even tell you when the last time I used that thing was, and why is it that when I went to go go use it, it wasn't there.
I tore my kitchen apart looking for the thing,

(55:19):
and somehow, someway, it went from the kitchen, it was in my bedroom.
That's my mom and my dad.
My,
I have this and I I have my two kids, my dogs. My my dogs are my kids. So,
I I I
cooked dinner for them and all that stuff, and we were the three of us were in the studio,

(55:40):
just kinda I was messing around with some stuff, and they were they were at my feet.
And,
you you heard what sounded like a scraping sound, like something being dragged.
You know what I mean?
And,
they heard it because they got up, and they they stood in the doorway.
And they were standing there, and all the hair on the back of their neck was stand on the on their back was standing straight up, and they were looking out into the hallway.

(56:07):
So so I got up and I and I walked
I I looked down the the hallway outside the door, and, before I did the renovation on the house,
I had this, this like little half wall where I had their their food bowls set up.
And, I remember when I moved into the house, my mom was still alive.
I I I would do video calls with her, and she always said she did not like the idea of the food bowls in that spot.

(56:32):
She wanted them on the other wall. She wanted to put them on the other wall this way, because she was like because
she was like
because she said to me, she goes, you know yourself, you're gonna you're gonna keep on knocking into them, you're gonna kick them, you're gonna spill them, you're gonna get angry, and all that stuff. And okay. And so
what was moved? Their food bowls.
It they were they were slid from the wall across to where where my mom said that she would prefer

(56:56):
to have the food bowls for the dogs. So No. That is a good one. That is a that that is that's one of those like, yeah. Okay. Yeah. So I called my I called my sister,
and I was like, hey, so so check this out, and and I explained it to her. She goes, that's just mom messing with you. Yeah. You you know that. I'm like, well well, yeah, but you know, you're not the one experiencing it, freaking me out.

(57:17):
You know?
And then another one with the with the ice cube stamp, I I had it on the where it normally would have it in the kitchen,
and
I, I I was walking from the living room toward the kitchen,
and the ice cube stamp was literally,
not used. It was bone dry. The countertop was bone dry, everything.

(57:39):
It was slowly sliding
across the top of the island,
and I was watching it and I was stunned by it. Then I I ran, I grabbed my phone, and I started recording it. And I have it. I still I have it on it's somewhere on the computer here.
That I actually recorded it sliding across
the the countertop

(58:01):
until it got about halfway, then it then it stopped. It would didn't move again.
But it freaked the hell out, and again, that's mom and dad messing with me because they know I have to have it where I like it, and they were moving it, and it was it was funny. It was really weird. But I'm getting used to it now, so it doesn't bother me so much. I was like, you know, I say something Probably like, hey, they're there. Yeah. Well, exactly. Exactly. Just, but,
my mom

(58:22):
the the the anniversary of my mom passing was the eighth, July 8.
And, I was in the kitchen,
and I was just standing there, and it's I I didn't have the AC's running, nothing was running, and it was it was a pretty warm day. It was probably about 90 something degrees,
and and
I was standing there, and I was talking to a friend of mine on the phone, and all of a sudden I just had this cold

(58:46):
breeze just all around, you know.
And I was and
I I commented, I said it. So I just got cold in here. Oh, yeah. It's your mom. She's messing with you. Yeah. I know. Leave me alone. So, of course, I went out and bought all my ghost hunting stuff. So when I got I got my k two meters now, and I got my SLR cameras and and SLS cameras and all that stuff. So I'm gonna start doing that stuff around the house here sooner or later. But, anyway, that's a long story. It's so funny because Brett was such a practical joker. Like, he's always we had we had water gun battles in the house. That was the kind of guy he was. You know? But

(59:17):
he hasn't messed with me. It's always been maybe because he knows that it just doesn't isn't what is gonna help me. Yeah. And he actually cares. You know? And your your your mom and dad do too. I'm not saying Oh, my mom my mom and dad love to mess up because because that's that's that was our relationship. I would There you go. Prank them. They would prank me. I would you know, it was back and forth stuff. You know, I tell this story all the time. I I bought my dad once for for Father's Day. My dad is a big Yankees fan. Alright. I'm not. I'm not from Texas. I'm from New York, you know, so and that's, you know. So, one father's day, I I decided, you know, I'm gonna get him something really nice. He's gonna love this. So I went to the MLB shop, and I bought him this field use jersey, the the the fitted cap and all that stuff, and I I brought it over to him, and, he was sitting in his living room, and he takes the box, and he's like, Joseph, you didn't have to do this. This is great. You know, why'd you do this? Why'd you spend the money on that? Dad, please, I love you. I want you to have this.

(01:00:07):
So he opens the box, and what's the first thing he sees?
Boston Red Sox tissue paper.
Dad's a Yankee fan.
Okay. I'm not. My dad's a Yankee fan.
He opens it up, and I bought him a Boston Red Sox travel jersey.
Has Boston across the front, has his name on the back stitched in, big number one, the number one fan, and all that stuff, the fitted hat.

(01:00:32):
Oh, okay. Yeah. You you earned that, man. Yeah. So so so I'm sitting so so I'm sitting there with with my mom, and and my dad's looking at it. He's like,
totally off guard. He was like, Joseph, this is beautiful. Thank you.
Gives me a hug. I love you pal. And I said, I love you too, dad. And I said, happy Father's Day. He goes, oh, thank you. No happy Yeah. I appreciate that. He puts everything back in the box, gets up, he takes the box, and he walks out of the room. So I'm sitting there with my mom, I'm look I looked at her, I said, well that didn't go like I thought it was gonna go. Yeah. So she was like, I don't know. She goes, he he hasn't been feeling too well. I'm like, okay.

(01:01:07):
Alright. So I'm sitting, I'm talking to my mom, ten minutes go by, fifteen minutes go by.
Where's dad?
Nobody knows. So I get up and I and I go into the kitchen, and I look outside, and my dad's in the backyard, he's sitting in his chair in his backyard, and he's reading.
Okay. Well, I came to see you, you know, you just walk out of the house. So I go in the backyard, he's sitting there, and it's he's sitting in he has his his little fire pit going, and he's sitting there reading his book, and I'm and I'm sitting there, and I'm Dad, you okay?

(01:01:38):
Yeah. I'm fine.
You sure? Yeah. I'm like, what are you burning? That smells horrible.
Mhmm. What do you think he what do you think? He took the Red Sox jersey, the fitted hat, the tissue paper, all that stuff, threw it into the fire pit. I was like, dad, what are you doing?
Do you have any idea how much that cost me? And he goes, well, who's more the fool then? I'm like, fuck. Alright. Lesson learned.

(01:02:02):
You know, lesson learned. Alright. Fine. Leah, we have less than ten minutes to go and I have so many more questions for you. Let let me let me just let's get back to this really quick.
So Yeah. I think you kinda talked a little bit already about how how you dealt with with with the everyday,
dealing with grief.
And your second book, It's Okay to be Okay, and I'm sure it has to do with all that.

(01:02:26):
But you also you also teach and practice Christian
meditation.
Alright. How is Christian meditation
different from other types of meditation?
Yeah. So, again, I'm gonna do the short version now. It's heart centered. Okay. So,
you know, we think about Jesus when he would go off in the morning to pray Mhmm. Before coming to serve. I think it it sounds like it's a couple hours.

(01:02:48):
And I maybe he was sitting there spouting off words,
reading Psalms and scripture, and I have a feeling though that he was also listening.
He spent time just being with God. Yes. Being with the father. And, Christian meditation
is that. It's it's just the other side. You know?
You and your dad or you and your mom or or any you know, you and your your children. Like,

(01:03:10):
you have to have
two way street, the conversation, or it's not a real relationship. Right? That's right. You went out to the fireplace, the fire pit, watching your dad burn that because you you wanted to hear his response. You wanted to actually engage with him that day despite the practical jokes.
And, you know, our heavenly father wants us to hear the other side of the conversation, that we don't just spout off words. We don't just put our requests up there. It's not mail order God. You know? We also listen.

(01:03:37):
And my goodness, that is the best that is for me. You know, I've been a Christian for years up to that point, but until I started the process of meditation,
my character didn't change that much. It was incremental.
When I started meditating and listening,
I mean,
night and day, my children
you know, my the reason I started meditating was my son said, mommy, I wish you wouldn't cry so much because I was going through a lot. Understandably, this is before years before my husband passed away.

(01:04:03):
And then
couple years later, I said, mommy, nothing ever gets you. What's your secret?
And I wasn't hiding anything. I just genuinely was a joyful person, and,
that carries on
to speak to the grief,
in a in a way that
with giving is receiving, one thing that made that year a year of thriving for me was that up until that point, no one knew about my husband's alcoholism except for my parents who happened to catch it one time and me. His parents probably figured it out, but his friends definitely didn't know. And his parents may have figured it out, but he didn't say anything.

(01:04:37):
So it's basically a very small group who knew.
And I was one of the most joyful people you're gonna meet at my job.
And, when my husband passed away, everybody found out the the story of what was going on. Right. And then I was still joyful. I still come in and mean it. You know? How are you today? I'm great. I'm happy to be here.
And,
then they started coming to me, like, what's your secret? What's going on? Because this isn't normal.

(01:05:01):
You know? And I know that you loved your husband, and we know you're grieving. We see the emotions, but you're still good. You know? What what's what's your secret? And so it was that that ministry. But, yeah, meditation, listening,
spending time where you just you can say your prayers. You can say to God whatever you want, and then you just stop. And that place in your heart where you're you say you're praying for a loved one or someone who's sick or whatever, and you just put that out to God and then just stop

(01:05:24):
and feel it in your heart Mhmm. And just sit there. Yeah. That's that's meditation. Fellowship
is a two way street. Yes. You know, it's a two way street. And, you know,
of course, God wants to hear what you have to say. He wants to even though he knows what you're gonna say before you say it, he knows what you're gonna say before you even think it.
Yeah.
But he also wants to have that two way street of fellowship with you. He wants he wants you to listen to him.

(01:05:49):
Right. And there are times where you need to do that. You need just to be you need just to shut up,
be quiet,
and just listen,
because he will speak to you. Yeah. You know? And I'm not saying you're gonna hear this audible voice thundering down from heaven, but you'll get that
small soft voice.
You know, that kinda kinda creeps in right about here somewhere, and and it kinda

(01:06:11):
prods you and pokes you and points you in the right direction. It's like that moment. Oh, okay. That's how I gotta fix this. Well, that's God's agenda. Times. I don't know about you, Joe, but for me, like, at first, I didn't know how to discern one from the other. Mhmm. But, and, again, I I am not a chapter and verse girl. I just know generals. Yeah. But there was a there was a point,
you we how do you test a false prophet from a true prophet? And one of them is, does it come true? Mhmm. Does it does it pan out? Exactly. And my own thoughts, they all pan out.

(01:06:37):
I do. I do. So I know it's, like, time after time. I mean, I've had things my current husband,
I got not from meditation. It was a dream that I was told
this, and this is who you're gonna find. This is what it's gonna happen to the t to the my stepdaughter's middle name. I was given that. And when I met him, I was like, oop. That actually happened. Okay.
You know, there's little moments of and I've had things in meditation like that too where I've been told things are nudged. A lot of this nudges. Like you said, it's a little little nudge here and there, but it's that blanket a lot. It's also sitting and just feeling.

(01:07:08):
I have a comment here. For our character. I have a comment here for you from from one of our listeners in a live chat.
I'm gonna there it's two parts. I'm gonna I'm gonna put put the first point up here on the screen if I can. And can you see that?
Yeah.
So it says,
I grew up in a
oh, I can't see the whole thing. I'm sorry.

(01:07:28):
I got it. I can see it. So on my end.
So,
I grew up in a Christian church, spent
my life in the church, and I'm and if I'm being honest, I've lost my faith. I've seen terrible things, and that's where it drifts off for me. So,
Yeah. Things that I just can't accept. There's a divine being, an afterlife, a reconnection I wish I could believe again.
I didn't know if you're comfortable with me addressing this. I I wanted to, but I didn't wanna overstep.

(01:07:51):
Go ahead.
My husband was there for sure,
and
he genuinely wanted to believe again. He he went to the point that it doesn't exist. I mean, vitriolic with me. It doesn't exist. Stop. You're you're stupid. You're
He was an alcoholic at the time. He was not that way at the end, but he was very, you know,
about it. And,

(01:08:13):
but he honestly wanted to know. Like, if it's if it's real, I'm here for it. Show me. And I believe that's if you genuinely mean that, like, god,
I don't understand it. I don't I don't. I I see these terrible things happening, and my book does address it to some extent, but I'm not the answer. God is. So go to him
and just say, I'm here, and I'm genuinely listening. I want to know you. I want to find you. I believe that's a prayer I got answers a 100 times out of a 100. You may have to wait a while. My husband waited about six months, but then he was knocked out of his chair almost practically literally

(01:08:46):
by the answer he got. And I I do believe that mine was too that the past calls wager to real faith.
And, yeah, I mean, even my grief, even losing my husband, you know, one of the things I say is letting let him not die in vain. That that this be
being on these podcasts, like, tonight, I wouldn't I didn't have a story, and that's not
you can turn pain and and grief into something beautiful. God can do that. God can take any story

(01:09:11):
and transform into something beautiful if we allow him to.
Yeah. I wouldn't be who I am without that experience. Yeah. Well, there's a follow-up comment from the same from the same listener,
and it says, her resilience
is so admirable. She's a lovely person with the pain she must have felt, and her boys, it is not fair.
I will say this too. My my oldest son is 14 now. He was 10 when my husband passed.

(01:09:35):
He said to me the other day.
He said, mom, you know,
I'm I'm not grateful that I lost dad.
But,
so the things I learned in that, that I didn't having to lean on family the way we did. Yeah. We had to lean on our grandparents, and we had to lean on our neighbors
and the community that came around us.

(01:09:57):
He said, you know, when times hit that are tough,
you know how to connect, and you know those relationships that matter.
You know, my boys, they they went through hell for sure. And my youngest is still and he's in starting sixth grade this year, and he's middle of the hormones and everything too. And there's a lot there that it hurts.

(01:10:17):
But, yeah,
it it's, it's transformative in a in a beautiful way,
and
I believe they're gonna be stronger for it. And I've been praying that, you know, every day since it happened. Like, god, let's make them stronger,
from it. They've gone through this as children.
Hopefully, it's only up from there. There you go.
Well, we're we're just about out of time, so I I do have, just, some some exiting questions for you. Got it. Yeah. Very, very simple.

(01:10:45):
Someone that you deeply respect right now, and what are they doing that we should pay attention to?
Oh.
Someone I deeply respect. So a public figure. Oh. Well, it doesn't have to be a public figure.
Oh, gosh. No. You got you I wasn't prepared for this one. Yeah. Nobody ever is.

(01:11:06):
Yeah.
Can we go to the second one and we can come back to it? Yes. We could. Yes. I I want I don't wanna Absolutely. We we don't have we don't even have to go back to that one. It's fine.
If if if you could speak
one sentence
into the minds of everyone that's listening right now, what would it be?
Okay. So I have the answer to the first one. Okay.

(01:11:28):
Okay. Go ahead. Well, Byron. There is a woman named Byron Katie.
Okay. And she is not
she's not a Christian. She's not not a Christian. She just is spiritual in general. And she has something called the work that is really, really beautiful way
to transform pain
and help you to pull out of the perceptions that you have.
I would always pair that with the gospel. It's not a standalone by any stretch, But, she's someone who does amazing work in liberating people from their fears, from their self deprecating thoughts,

(01:11:58):
in a way that allows them true true freedom. So that's something that, on a way that maybe something you wouldn't hear on this podcast.
And then my one line, you know, what I would say is
with a genuine relationship with god,
you have no idea how good life can be.
I cannot tell you how happy I am. Even in that year following my husband's passing,

(01:12:22):
I can the the depths of joy and peace that I was able to find with that
deep, deep experiential relationship with God, and God is is there. He's all in. It's it's blowing my mind. And,
yeah. That's beautiful. That's beautiful. Alright. Last question. This one was the really, really hard one. Alright? So you need need to really think about this. Alright?
And then Okay. Then then we'll say goodbye after that one. Alright. So where can the audience go to learn more about you and your work?

(01:12:48):
You're stressing me out. It's an easy one.
Okay. I always point people to my website. It's my blog, and then it's like a one stop shop. You can get to my books and, my social media from there. I won't do a lot on social media, but, you know,
I am on Substack. It's the only social media I really use a lot. Okay. But, it's the contemplativechristian.com.

(01:13:10):
So it's really easy to remember as long as you can spell, and you can use spell check and Grammarly and things like that. Okay. Thecontemplativechristian.com.
Great. And, I know I already have all of that information is already in the audio,
show notes. I just have to put it into the video show notes, which I'll do after the show. And,
that was that was great. So Leah Crest, thank you so very much for spending your evening with us. I know you gotta get to the kids, and I gotta get to work. So,

(01:13:36):
so again, thank you so much for your for spending the time with us, and we'll definitely get in touch, and we'll do this again sometime. We'll get to more details on the other questions that I had lined up for you. I'd like to get some, get some work on done on those.
So,
anything else you wanna give us before you go?
No, man. Just this is an honor. Wonderful being with you. It's wonderful being with your guests, and, you guys are wonderful. And, never been on a live show before.

(01:14:00):
What an honor. Lot of fun. You can reach out. And your stories and I listened to the story about your dad on Father's Day. That's my heart. It's it's beautiful. And now I got to hear more about your dad today. Oh, yeah. So that was wonderful. Thank you for sharing it. Oh, it's my pleasure. My pleasure. Alright, Leah Kress, thank you so much. God bless you. Have a great night, and, we will talk to you very very soon.
God bless. Alright. Take care. Alright, folks. What we're gonna do here is, we are going to move on into our announcements, and then we'll, wrap this thing up because I gotta get on,

(01:14:28):
unfortunately,
to the job. So, normally, I would like to take a little break here. Gotta use the restroom, but we're gonna fly through these announcements really fast and we'll get this thing done. Alright. Now, as I said, time for the announcements.

(01:14:55):
Alright. Well, I gotta find the other track. The other the other one sounds so much better. I have a different version of it. So much better. But, we'll do it over the weekend. Alright, folks. Don't forget, very important. We do have an email list that, I've been so neglectful in trying to get information out on. So please head over to our website, joeroos.com.
And, as soon as you get on the page, a little pop up is gonna come up. You can sign up on it right there, or use the contact form and, sign up on the contact page.

(01:15:22):
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(01:15:49):
to keep in communication with everybody. Alright? Another thing I wanna tell you about is our sponsor, podholm.fm.
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(01:16:43):
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Sign up right there. It's really, really easy. Alright. Now tomorrow night, we're gonna have, we have two guests tomorrow. We have a 07:00 guest, our first hour. We're gonna be talking with Sasha Eburn. And then in the second hour, we're gonna be talking to Tommy Kilpatrick.
So that's gonna be a lot of fun. I'm looking forward to those conversations.

(01:17:05):
Also, don't forget to check us out on our socials.
We are on, Twitter, x, whatever you wanna call it, at Joe Ruz. Truth social at Joe Ruz. Mines, which is one that I don't really talk about very much, but you gotta check out Minds. Minds is a great platform to be on. Minds.com,
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(01:17:26):
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Alright. Now, of course, as always, with our folks that are contributing
as producers and our producer tiers, we gotta give our shout outs. So shout outs to our executive producer, Wayne Rankin, executive producer, Rosanna Rankin,

(01:17:54):
executive producer, Carolina Jimenez, and our producer,
anonymous, Angelique. Thank you guys so much for all that you do. We really do appreciate it. Now if you're interested in knowing more about the donations and about the plans of the, tiers that we have, you can go to our website, the support page. It's all listed there for you. Or, you can just listen to me. One time donation, any amount, always appreciated. Recurring donation in any amount, of course, always appreciated.

(01:18:21):
Our associate producer tier is $17.76
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All of the producer tiers get the shout out on every show included in all the show notes,

(01:18:42):
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Alright? So we appreciate that, and we're gonna we're gonna acknowledge you as that. Now, the executive producers,
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(01:19:03):
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(01:19:26):
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(01:19:50):
as far as for donations, we also accept, cryptocurrencies.
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(01:20:34):
Alright.
Well, I think, with all of that said and done, I think it's about time for us to say goodnight.
Alright, folks. So thank you again for taking the time to be with us tonight. Head on over to our website, joeroos.com.
Click on that contact section. Send us over any questions, comments, cares, or concerns you have. And folks, don't forget, make Texas independent again.

(01:20:55):
Go podcasting,
keep a steady stride and keep talking. Good night folks and goodbye. Happy trails
to you until we meet again. Happy trails to
you.
You.

(01:21:22):
Together?
Just sing a song and bring the sunny weather.
Happy trails
to
you. To remain

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