From Alaska to the Supreme Court: Stories of Crime and Courage (Ep. 110)

Episode Transcript
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Unknown (01:15):
Alrighty. Coming to you live
from the Asylum Studios
and broadcasting
from deep
in the bowels of Southwest
Texas.
This
is
the Joe Roos Show,
and we are going to do the very best we can to bring you the best quality talk radio we could muster

(01:37):
without all the bluster.
I am your host, Joe Roos,
and you are receiving this transmission at nineteen
zero nine hours on Wednesday,
February.
Folks, we got a stacked show for you tonight.

(01:58):
Got a lot of stuff going on. And you know what? I hate this camera angle.
What is the deal with my tech people?
You guys royally suck.
Royally suck.
Gonna make me get up and fix this thing now.
Alright.
And I can say that because I am the tech guy, so that's just me doing all the stuff. So that's just the way it works, but that's alright. Let me just adjust this.

(02:28):
There we go. A little better.
Little better. We'll get it right. You know? We figure you got did a 110 episodes already. Right? This is episode number one ten.
You figured by now we'd have it all this stuff kinda ironed out, but no. Of course not. Of course not. And I am sorry, folks, we got a late start today because

(02:48):
I had a little issue getting out of work on time and then had, some
minor distractions here at the asylum
trying to get this thing put together tonight.
Alright. Now as you know, I'm using a different mic tonight. We are using the Shure SM four microphone tonight, a condenser mic. We're trying this baby out.

(03:09):
I've used it before, but,
I kinda messed with some of the settings. We're trying it again. I'm I'm still trying to decide. Do I wanna use the Shure s m four? Do I wanna use the s m seven b? Or do I wanna use my beautiful Procaster that's sitting right over there? So we're still working all that stuff out. We'll figure it all out along the way. Anyway, enough of that crap. So I hope you guys were able to catch Monday night show. Monday night show, we had a blast talking with Svetlana

(03:36):
Rilkov of the
Ezra Healing,
network or or program rather.
And what a an amazing conversation we had.
I mean,
folks, if you missed that show, you need to go back and check it out. A lot of really good information was put out there, and,
you need you definitely need to check that thing out. So, and we're gonna be partnering up with, Svetlana,

(04:02):
in the weeks ahead. Again, she's gonna be on the show, and, we've been talking about making it a recurring,
a recurring guest appearance.
So, you know, keep your eyes open for that. That should be very interesting and a lot of, a lot of fun.
Now,
just also wanna point out that, yes, I am wearing this shirt,

(04:23):
future ghost,
as a curt as a it was a gift from the folks at the Creepy Coffees podcast.
And, also, they sent this great coffee mug, so we are ghosting out tonight for the folks at Creepy Coffees, so make sure you check them out. Check out their show, Creepy Coffees,
podcast. Great stuff. I've been following them along now for a while. You can check them out on all their social media

(04:45):
accounts.
Now tonight,
we have, we have a couple of guests lined up. We have a 07:00 guest who's actually already waiting for us, so we're gonna run through some really really quick things, before we bring him in. And then we have an 08:00 guest.
So tonight's show will be totally devoted basically to, to chitchat with some of our friends and and guests.

(05:06):
Alright.
Let's see. Hey, folks. Listen. If, you are looking for a great
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Try it out. You get thirty days free. Alright. Thirty days absolutely free. And, when you get over to tell them that, the Joe Russo sent you. Alright?
Right. Podhome.fm.
Alright. Also, I just wanna direct your attention over to our website, joroos.com.

(07:25):
It is right up there on your screen, so you should be able to see that pretty easily.
Joeroos.com.
Just head over to our contact section, open that thing up, and send us over any questions, comments, cares, or concerns that you might have, any any suggestions you might have, any guests you like us to try to get, or any subject you like us try to cover.
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on the break in between,
our first and second guests.
Alright. Now, waiting for us in the waiting room,

(08:10):
we have our first guest for the evening,
Doug Pfeiffer.
Now tonight's guest spent twenty five years behind the badge in one of the darkest,
coldest places in America,
and he has got the stories to prove it.
Doug Pfeiffer is a law a former law enforcement officer from Alaska
where he worked everything from hostage negotiations to deviant sexual crimes. He's also the off the author of 50 Shades of True Crime, which I am in the process of reading.

(08:39):
And, from what I've seen so far, this book is amazing.
Draw draw dropping.
Jaw dropping. I'll get it out. I speak English sometimes.
Jaw dropping look at what really happens behind closed doors
and what it reveals about the human psyche. Doug
has seen things that would make most of us look twice at our neighbors,

(09:01):
and still he brings humor, wisdom, and just enough dark curiosity to keep the pages turning. From the criminal mind to the teachable tidbits of sexual education not gleaned from real cases, this conversation goes from chilling
to surprisingly cheeky.
Folks, let's welcome our guest, Doug Pfeiffer.

(09:23):
There he is.
Doug, yeah, turn your mic on. Can't hear you.
Alright. Now how's that? That's perfect. That's perfect. Alright. Doug, welcome to the show, man. It's great to have you here.
Well, always happy to be here. Thanks for having me. And, you know, I I again, I apologize for the, delay here. Had a few things get in the way along the way of trying to get the show put together this afternoon. So it was, it was a harrowing day at the job and then had plenty of distractions, good distractions,

(09:51):
when I got back to to the studio tonight. So it was,
it was, interesting trying to get this thing going today. So What happened at the job? Your listeners are gonna wanna know. No. It's just the usual stuff, last minute things. I I my my my my my
I'll get it out. I will get it out. My audience knows what I do for a living, down here in Texas. I work in a nursing facility, and,

(10:13):
you know, the you know, things happen along the way that,
that that come up last minute, and I just stupid little thing today was we had, our our, facility van was put out of service for a recall.
And,
as, I should have expected it, but, of course, at 04:30 when I'm just about to walk out the door, that's when they call and say, hey. The van's ready to pick up, and, of course, I need to find somebody to go with me to go get it.

(10:37):
And, of course, nobody wants to go do that, so it it made it a challenge. And then so I ended up getting late for that, but that's a minor thing that I mean, I have other I had other stuff pop off, you know, I had broken water pipes. I had, you know, HVAC systems that went down. I had tons of things that happened in the course of the day that always seem to happen right when you're ready to go home.
Yeah. That's pretty I agree with you. And it's just like with just like in uniform too. I I remember, you know, my like, my my audience knows my background. It's like, then you know too. You're you're you're you're working toward the end of the shift. You're getting ready to get out of there. You look at you're closing out your logs. You're doing all your paperwork, and all of a sudden you get that last minute call that, of course, ends up in an arrest, which means that, well, well, I'm not going home anytime soon. So

(11:19):
We we always call it four hours later, you're going home. That's about what it took. Yep.
The only I think the only time I don't know if I should say this on the show or not because it might give people the wrong idea about law enforcement. I don't know. So I I might reserve judgment on this one. Unless you wanna unless you twist my arm and make me tell you, but I don't know. We'll we'll see. We'll we'll see. But, sometime sometimes those those last minute,

(11:42):
encounters and engagements
are done for a specific
fiduciary
need at the moment. So, you know, we just Yep. I got screw it. Do we we called it collars for dollars. So Yeah. You know, so that's the way it was.
Alright. So, Doug, again, so thank you for your service. I really do appreciate it. I know it's I know it's not an easy job. And, you know, once you put that uniform on, you were an absolute target.

(12:09):
Doesn't matter if it's today or if it's twenty years ago or twenty five years ago, that uniform is a target.
And,
you know, it takes a it takes a certain kind of person to wear the uniform.
And,
and and and I appreciate that you've done that, and, I'm incredibly grateful for the service that all of those all of our folks, all our brothers and sisters in uniform,

(12:30):
do every single day, putting their lives on the line, and a lot of times not even
not even a thank you, Not even a consideration that, you know, I'd like to get home to my family too. You know? So it's it's one of those things. But, again, thank you, brother. I really appreciate everything that you do for us. No. I I echo that. Thank you. Laska is very supportive of law enforcement. So, you know, working twenty five years up here was a was a great experience.

(12:55):
I know some of our fellow brothers and sisters in blue down south in other states don't have it quite as nice. I do feel for them, but I always tell listeners or anybody I talk to that, you know, when you see bad things about cops, it's that fractional 1%
of all law enforcement. And then take your own jobs, whether you're a doctor, lawyer, you work for a corporation,
you also have bad employees.

(13:16):
But the vast majority are good. 99%
of cops
do the exact job they're supposed to. You know, arrest people, keep the community safe, are heavily involved within with their fellow citizens,
and that's what I like to talk about. I'm biased because I was a cop for twenty five years, but I'm also extremely honest. So, it's at the Anchorage Police Department, I mean, that's the department I worked for. Corruption, things like that, did it ever happen? Of course. Was it a very small percentage? Yes.

(13:43):
Yeah. Well, wherever wherever you have a a human being, that you're gonna have the good and bad. It it there's nothing no matter how many no matter how many how many psychological
exams they make you go through in order to get on the job, no matter how many tests they make you go through,
it it eventually, it happens. You know? It's like that old saying, you know, with with great power comes great responsibility.
Well, with great power comes the potential for great corruption as well. And, you know, law enforcement officers, whether you're a patrol officer or whether you're a a boss or whether, you know, you're further up the chain of command,

(14:14):
you know, you do have you do have a lot of a lot of authority that's rested on your shoulders. And, unfortunately, there's a great number of of,
of of of men and women that take advantage of that authority and use it for nefarious purposes, which is unfortunate.
Very unfortunate, because it gives the good cops the bad name.
True. You know? So, let me ask you this. I always like to ask these kind of questions before we get started,

(14:37):
into the real deep deep dive stuff.
So what's something that,
that most people don't know about you but really should?
That's a good question. I gotta be careful in case my mom watches this. I gotta keep keep that pretty,
that they should know about me. Well, kind of an interesting fact is that, myself and my family were on America's Funniest Home Videos Really? In 02/2017. We're one of those we're the Pfeiffer family that waves one of the finalists.

(15:08):
And that's the short story, and that is, my youngest brother graduated from high school. We took him to
Hawaii, and then the wife stuffed a fake cockroach in his hamburger,
which he ate and then vomited on the table. So we caught that on video, and I would show every one of his girlfriends that came over for his life. And somebody said you ought to send that in to America's Funniest Home Videos. I sent it in not thinking anything, but we were one of the finalists. We got a free trip to Hollywood. Nice. It's kind of a cool story you wouldn't guess from, you know, an Alaska family, but, you know, we had our five minutes of fame on the on the TV show. Well, I don't put anything past people from Alaska.

(15:41):
So so you know you never know what you're gonna get. But Alaska is actually one of the places that that's on my bucket list. You know, I I do wanna get up there. I do wanna see that. And, you know, it from like, I've had a friend who's who spent a lot of time up there in Alaska, and,
he he does, missionary work with,
Franklin Graham's organization.
The the name just flipped out of my head for a second. It will come back to me later on. As I'm like I tell people, as I'm getting older, my memory is becoming more and more like Swiss cheese.

(16:08):
I think it happened.
Yeah. So,
so, I mean, I yeah. I saw pictures and some great stories that he that he passed on, so it just makes it even more. And it's interesting too because, you know, I am a I'm a born again Christian. I got I became a Christian in February.
And, for some reason, right that's exactly when
that desire to go to to Alaska kinda hit me. So I don't know if that's the Lord telling me I want you to go do something up there or if that's just, you know, Lord saying go get lost. You know? Just forget it. Either one. Well, I'll tell you it's the most beautiful state. And, again, I was born and raised. You know, I was born in Homer. It's about 5,000 people. 260 miles south of Anchorage.

(16:45):
Grew up in Anchorage. That's our largest city. That's where I worked as a cop for twenty five years. But the state is absolutely magnificent.
The wife and I love to travel. We travel travel over The United States, the world,
but I've never found a place more beautiful than Alaska.
So when you get a chance to get up there, the cruise, everybody likes to cruise. I wouldn't do it because I I wanna cruise somewhere warm. Yeah. But very affordable option. Otherwise, the interior with Denali,

(17:09):
Fairbanks, some of our areas, it just it's incredible. You got it. It's a must do list. Well, definitely gonna check that out for sure. Alright. Let's see. What's your go to beverage? What do you, use to unwind at the end of the day?
I'm a vino guy, so I love wine. Nice. My the wife and I, we ran a wine business in Anchorage for thirteen years before selling it. So I'm gonna go for, like, a nice pinot noir red wine. That'll be my,

(17:32):
my go to. Most of my my cop friends, obviously, bourbons, whiskeys,
which I like as well. But, again, if I'm gonna have a glass, I want a glass of, Red Vino. Nice. Nice. I I actually,
I'm I'm Italian,
you know, by heritage. So,
we use a lot of red wines in our in our in our sauces,
especially well, obviously, red sauces. But,

(17:54):
so, my go to,
down here it's hard. And and where I am in Texas, I'm I'm I'm on the border between,
Texas and Mexico.
So I I'm in a I'm in a town called Eagle Pass. It's a small town. It's only about 30,000 people.
And, you know, getting getting authentic Italian
fare down here is quite hard.
So

(18:14):
you should try to make do with what you got. But,
but I I've
I've been I've been using,
Capola's
cab, Cabernet Sauvignon.
And, you know, the rule of thumb that my mom always taught me, was if you're gonna if you if you can't drink it, you don't cook with it.
So,
so,

(18:35):
I use the cab in in the sauces that I make, you know, the pasta sauce and all that stuff. And, it is so good, and it it the the problem with it is it is so good that it goes down very, very easy.
And before you know it,
you're done with the bottle. So,
yeah. Yeah. You can have a problem with that. But I'm a bourbon guy. I love I love my bourbons, and,
you know, one of my favorite bourbons is, seventeen ninety two, the small batch, which is Yeah. Which is unbelievable. It is so good. It's kinda like the go to. And,

(19:06):
there's a a place local here too that that actually
stocked one time the,
the foolproof
version of that, which is, like, like, a 150 proof. Wow.
And I grabbed that bottle without realizing it one day when I went in, so I was kind of in a rush. And,
I went in, I grabbed that bottle. I I I took it home, and,

(19:27):
kinda like a wine, what I like to do, I like to let it breathe
before I pour. So I I I pop the cork on it,
and
just
just
smelling it
gave me heartburn. That's how strong
that this this this, seventeen ninety two, foolproof was.

(19:47):
And, it, it went down hard,
delicious, had beautiful flavor, some great you you picked up some vanilla, some caramel in it. It was really, really nice,
but it was way too strong for me. So so we Little too potent. Yeah. So now so so I I went I went by the liquor store plate, where I usually get it, and, he was the the guy that

(20:08):
that knows the place was like, oh, wow. You know, I got something for you to try. Oh, yeah. What do you got? He pulls out a seventeen ninety two
full full, foolproof,
but in a, like, a a liter and a half bottle.
And I'm like, I am not buying that.
You're like, I couldn't finish it. Yeah. That's a lot. First of all, it'll take me three years to finish that because it's so so strong. I can't do it. But,

(20:31):
you know, it it's what it is. And then and then, of course, you got, Elijah Craig is a great bourbon.
Yeah.
I like to pair Elijah Craig's with cigars. So my favorite pairing right now is,
I'll do a,
a Camacho Triple Maduro
with, the, Elijah Craig toasted barrel, which is
unbelievably good. Just that combination together is just amazing.

(20:54):
And, you know, you start a fire up, not that you really need a fire in Texas, but, you know, you start the fire up outside,
sit down,
have a couple of sips, smoke a nice cigar, just relax. That's that's how you kick off a weekend.
I don't think there's anything wrong with that? No, sir. No, sir.
Alright. So you spent twenty five years in law enforcement.
I I spent twenty three in in in, in in city service.

(21:17):
I did
twelve years in uniform. I did four years in, as an investigator.
I served for a year as, in the the US diplomatic security service in the uniform protection branch,
and then,
I I finished out my career in New York City in, working for department operations.
But, you spent twenty five years in law enforcement in total, and and,

(21:39):
up in all of it was in Alaska. Right? Or or did you move around? Okay.
So
this is this is a hard question to ask, a law enforcement officer,
because that you get so many different answers. There there's not one cookie cutter response to it, I think. But, what what actually
attracted you to law enforcement? What pulled you into that line of work?

(22:00):
Yeah. A couple of things. I'd met a a state trooper in Maryland on vacation when I was a little kid,
and he we went to a Baltimore Orioles game just to look at the stadium, but he he let us in the stadium because, he thought Alaska was so cool. We could check it out, you know, kids from Alaska. So I always remember that. I thought he was like a superhero back then. Nice. Kinda stuck in my head that, you know, when I got older, maybe I'll look into that. And in Alaska, we have two large agencies, Anchorage Police Department and the Alaska State Troopers.

(22:27):
So I applied to both in 1996
shortly after turning 21,
and I was hired by both the same week, but APD hired me a few days before the troopers. Okay. So I accepted the, job with them and then spent my twenty five years in that department.
Alaskans love the outdoors,
just by nature when you're born here. Skiing, snow machining, fishing, hiking, hunting, everything. You just wanna be outdoors.

(22:50):
So naturally, I thought that police work would kinda help me with that where you'd have different adrenaline rushes. You could be outdoors. You could do different things, be in different units as you know from police work. So I thought that would be a cool experience.
Secondly, it paid very well in Alaska. You know, we're all oil based in our industry. Right. So law enforcement at that time
paid very high nationwide.

(23:12):
It's caught up with most states now, but back then it was a high paying gig. So I was lucky enough to get on. And back when I hired on, there was 5,000 applicants for 28 positions. Wow. It was a huge pool of people to get to get a spot. So very fortunate to get a spot, and then, you know, I hired on with APD, and,
the rest is history. I spent twenty five years in my community. I love Alaska, so I wouldn't wanna move out. I actually applied with the FBI,

(23:38):
maybe four to six years of my career. I didn't know that you'd have to move to major city to major city. They quickly told me that, and then I, of course, you know, rescinded my application and said, be more than happy to stay in my home state for my career because I loved it. I didn't wanna move to Detroit or Dallas.
Nothing wrong with that. I just love Alaska. I mean, it's just such an awesome place to be and raise kids and your family. So I spent my whole career, and then I as you mentioned earlier,

(24:02):
I worked in different units, different specialties.
Mhmm. What's kinda cool about Alaska is some of your larger cities, they'll have cops, detectives. They all do separate things. In Alaska, a cop a patrol cop can do a ton a ton of different things by necessity because perhaps you're remote, you don't have a partner, you know, the crime scene can't come out quickly. So there's a there's a lot of specialties you can do to keep it exciting, and then you can move to different units Mhmm. Which was cool. So I absolutely loved every minute of it. You know, I like I mentioned earlier, I was in the wine business. I serve on some business board of directors, which I also enjoy. But if I can only pick one job to ever work,

(24:37):
I would pick law enforcement, and I would never change that. It was the most enjoyable rewarding career you could ever imagine. Like, I got up for work, and I was excited to go to work each and every day. I think it's, you know, it's just priceless to find a job like that. And I really tell my kids that if you can find a job like that, boy, you've won. Because a lot of people hate their jobs. I mean, it's just, you know, it's overbearing. It's

(24:59):
stressful. And not that law enforcement isn't, but the ultimate goal is, you know, putting bad guys in jail to keep your community safe. Probably nothing better than that.
I I I agree with you. I, you know, it's there there are times, I was I was talking to a friend of mine a couple days ago, actually, that and when I was telling them I was gonna be talking to you, they said, they asked me, well, do you miss,
you know, you know, wearing the uniform? Do you miss working in law enforcement?

(25:22):
And, I'll be honest with you.
Sometimes I do.
Sometimes I don't.
You know? I don't think that
if I was
if if I was looking to get into a a career, I don't think I would choose law enforcement today with the with the with the way the environment is,
and and and just the on the the onslaught and the assault

(25:44):
that police officers get put through each and every day now.
You know, there's that you know,
society has shifted so much
that they don't respect authority. They don't
they don't understand that,
that,
the authority is is is who the the officer represents. You know, it's it's a job just like any other job. You have to you have to do what the job entails and tells you what to do, so they take out their frustrations on

(26:12):
on the government. They take out their frustrations on what's going on in their community on the nearest thing possible that represents the authority in that, and that's the law enforcement.
My son actually was talking about the he he was thinking he's he still lives up, well, he lives in Pennsylvania right now, but,
he was talking about getting into law enforcement, and he asked me my advice, and I told him no. I wouldn't do it. You know, unless you go someplace

(26:36):
like a small town and it's, you know,
not like New York City, not Pen not Philadelphia, you know, those big cities where you're gonna be a a constant
target.
Sure. You know, if you wanna do law enforcement, go to a small town someplace. Go down south. You know?
Didn't really dawn on me to tell them to try, you know, up north there, but,

(26:56):
you know, it it's just a different world now for police coming out of the academy. It's it's just a completely different thing. Your hands are so tied. There's so little
that you can do that
to effectively do your job without the risk of you yourself going to jail because if somebody's misconstrued or miss or misunderstanding of tactics and and and how you're trained to respond to things.

(27:18):
And, you know, so it's unfortunate. But, again, long story short, I do miss it sometimes.
Sometimes not so much.
Yeah. But I'm with you. I would tell kiddo the, Anchor's Police Department is currently hiring also the troopers, so don't check out up north. And I do hear what you say. I I get that question a lot. Would I go back into law enforcement? I tell you what, if they had a program where you could work two days a month or four days a month on weekends, I'd strap that uniform on so fast you couldn't see straight. And I'll disagree with you a little bit, Joe, because I think that

(27:48):
cops we we should double down and go into it because history changes at ebb and flows. I think the respect factor will come back. Mhmm. But we need to have good cops in those positions now, and we need to, you know, to hire those professionals that come in that want to do it for the right reason to kinda get that pendulum swinging the other way. I hear you. It's not easy.
Anchorage isn't immune to it, and some of our other states are really bad. But, again, we need good cops because if we give up, right, that doesn't solve anything. Of course. So I want the I want the best of the best even in those large cities because, ultimately, I think citizens want protection. You're you're kind of the frontline military of the country,

(28:24):
and it would be very bad. You and I know from experience, it'd be very bad not to have law enforcement. Of course. Yeah.
And I tell people that, you know, you've never experienced evil. Ups that have worked any amount of time have seen real evil. It's a very small percentage in society, but that that percentage will wreak havoc, and they'll kill anybody. They'll rob anybody. They'll brutalize them. That's what you need cops for. So it's a special job. I in my heart, you know, it it goes out to those officers that struggle so much currently,

(28:51):
but I just want them to be warriors and stand up and and protect and serve and and I know it's hard, but they gotta do it because otherwise we'll lose it all. Yeah. That makes sense.
I I stand, I stand,
corrected.
Alright. But it's easy for me to say because I'm retired, so that's a little bit easier. But I would if I could do it a couple days a month, I I would strap on the uniform. They don't have, like, a reserve, like, a reserve officer program or anything like that, because I know there are some there are some smaller towns that that do that. They have reserve sheriffs, reserve officers, and stuff that you can you can go in and, you know, just a couple of days a week, couple days a month, and

(29:24):
and and actively patrol. And and you you you still have your your just your state
police or a peace officer license that you carry with you. So,
interesting. I gotta look in I gotta see if they have that down here. I haven't I haven't thought about that. Little different. But as hiring becomes more problematic, which you know it is for cops, they may start instituting more of that throughout states. Some states do have that. Alaska currently doesn't. Yeah. And and just for anybody listening that that's, especially up in the New York City area, the

(29:52):
the they probably are aware that the NYPD, New York City has what they call auxiliary police,
and a lot of people think that that's the same exact thing as being, like, a part time police officer. It's not. Auxiliary police are volunteers.
They're so you don't get paid.
You only are protected under the, the CPL
while you're wearing the uniform. So if you ruffle somebody's feathers after

(30:16):
you've done your volunteer hours,
you don't have any law protection other than, you know, what's available to the to the average person.
They do not carry a firearm,
which I think is insane, especially in New York.
So it's
yeah. You gotta be careful. So so if you see something like auxiliary and you think that you're gonna just look into it first before you get into it, but then again, that's New York City. You have places like,

(30:42):
like out in in Long Island, like like Nassau County, Suffolk County, where they actually have reserved police officers that are active
twenty four hours, seven day a week peace officers. They they have the protections.
They do carry. They do actively do law enforcement work. They're not just standing on the street corner making a uniform presence.
You gotta really be careful. So if you're listening and you're thinking about something like that, look into it before you take the step. You know, just make sure that you're gonna be protected, especially your family.

(31:11):
True story. I I I had a guy that I knew back in New York,
good friend of mine.
He worked,
he had a regular day job. He was working at the time. I think he was still working for EMS,
and,
he did volunteer work with the NYPD as an auxiliary and as an auxiliary officer. He was actually a a an auxiliary sergeant,

(31:31):
and, he came across a situation one night and,
got involved,
held on to held everybody at the scene until the regulars got there.
And then just a few days later, he was out for dinner with his family, and, lo and behold,
there's the guy
sitting at the table across the way from him, eyeing him the whole time, and he felt so vulnerable and he just had to leave with his family, ruined his night.

(31:55):
You know? So be careful. My point is be careful. If you're gonna go do something like that, check it out first. Make sure that you understand the program that you're getting yourself into.
So
the book, 50 Shades of True Crime,
you sent me a copy of it, which was great. I've I've been reading it. I haven't finished it yet, but
it really is very well written.

(32:16):
Very well written. And Well, thank you. And I think that, you know, it it's
anybody who's worn a uniform needs to read this
from what I've gotten from it so far. You know? But what made you really to decide to write 50 Shades of True Crime?
It the title's obviously a playoff of 50 Shades of Grey Mhmm. Because it's got some explicit sexual content in there, the real deviate stuff that most people in society don't see or even hear about. But, you know, over my career, you know, as cops, we go to cocktail parties or events.

(32:47):
And, you know, cops always talk about cases amongst themselves, but citizens would always ask me, what's the what's the weirdest case you ever had? So I I try and talk about a bank robbery that I thought was cool, maybe a serial killer or something that I investigated, and they didn't wanna hear about that. They wanted something really deviate like anything sexual that you've encountered. So I start telling some of these stories thinking that they would be like, hey. That's too much for me. I I don't wanna hear that. And they would want more and more details.

(33:13):
Interestingly enough,
the the women wanted more details than the men. They'd really dig in hardcore into these stories. And my sales reflect that. It's about 60
to 65%,
female that buy my book.
Very popular in that that, area. But they want more and more details, and the light bulb kinda went off in my head that I looked up true crime cases and they're, you know, all about murders, serial killers, but nothing on sexual deviant crimes. So I said when I retire, I'm gonna write a book about real deviancy,

(33:42):
some of the fetishes, extreme paraphilias that people engage in, and see how that works. And, so I wrote it, and then, it's done extremely well.
So,
was there any one particular case that really kinda
made you finally say, alright. Yeah. This particular story needs to be told?
One of the one that that shocked me is kind of a a young cop, and I I call it green behind the ears. That's where you don't have a lot of experience.

(34:08):
I went on this call, and I was gonna solve the drug trade in Alaska. I was gonna crush it by arresting every every doper. I was you know, I had six months under me, and I was I thought I could, you know, stop it. So we had a a local drug area that and they were selling heroin at the time. But the dealers, what they do, they put it they'd wrap tinfoil,
the heroin and tinfoil, put it in their mouth. That way if we stopped and they swallow it, and you gotta have the drugs to arrest. Right. And then later on, they throw it back up, or even if they got arrested for something else,

(34:37):
they would, you know The other way. Pass it later. But it doesn't dissolve either way. So they wash it off back in their mouth to sell it.
Always found that fascinating. I wouldn't wanna do that job, but they did it. Yeah. No. That's true. This guy. He's on the corner. He's selling this heroin.
I'm in a full mark car in uniform. So he waves to me as I go by. Hard to sneak up on him. Mhmm. But I hid behind this building. It's freezing cold. It's wintertime in Alaska.

(35:01):
So I watch him for about twenty minutes just standing there. Nothing happens. I'm gonna give up because it's so cold. I can't take it anymore. I'm out of my car hiding behind this building, and a car pulls up, and they make the drug exchange.
So at that point, I decided it's my time to pounce. So I run after him. The car take takes off. I have really no plan. I'm very junior at this. So I tackle the guy. He's swallowing the heroin,

(35:23):
and he's fighting me. So I'm trying to hold his mouth open, which the human bite's pretty strong to try and get this heroin out. So I'm gonna lose my fingers if I keep doing this. So I let go, grab my pepper spray, and I hose him with pepper spray because he's fighting.
I'm able to arrest him. Long story short is there's no heroin on the ground. Now I've got a guy pepper sprayed with no drugs. This is gonna be very hard to explain.

(35:45):
Few seconds later, he starts vomiting
due to the pepper spray. Right. And he starts vomiting out these little,
packets silver packets, which are the greatest thing I've ever seen as a young cop. It's like Christmas to me. Sure. So I pick them up. I pick them up. I'm all happy. Now keep in mind, it's got vomit and pepper spray on it, but I'm happy I've got the dope. So I arrest them. On their arrest remains back then, they had a place for tattoos where you physically write down what type of tattoo somebody has. Right. We we use that for investigative purposes. If you lie, we can just look at your tattoos.

(36:15):
So he said he had a tattoo of a female on his back.
But in the in the report, it says description. So I said, well, what's what who's the female? Your mom? Your girlfriend?
He's like, it's a prison tat. And I really, at the time, had no idea what a prison tat was. Right. So I said, okay. What is it of, though? And he's like, you're a rookie.
Started calling me a few names. I said, okay. I'll find out at the jail. So we pull up at the jail, and for your listeners,

(36:39):
correction officers are separate for in Alaska. Some some departments have co, but we don't. They're separate entity.
They have carte blanche on searching people. They can strip you naked. They can search anywhere you want. Cops really can't do that. Right. So once we go into the facility, I told them, I've gotta document this tattoo,
but the guy's uncooperative, he won't tell me, other than it's a prison tattoo of a female.

(37:00):
So the jailer says strip strip your clothes off, like, get naked. And in jail, they don't mess around. The guy's been there a ton. He strips completely naked. And his backside, I'm looking at the most beautiful
tattoo I've ever seen of a woman, long flowing hair,
breasts, everything just etched into the, like, green, but it's like three d. It's absolutely incredible. I can't believe how good this tattoo is.

(37:22):
In the interview, this he was a prison prostitute, so the Mexican mafia had snatched him up, provided him heroin. This is at San Quentin before he came to Alaska, and said you have two choices, pay us back, which he couldn't, or we'll beat you to death. So his third choice was to get tattooed by one of the other inmates, and then they they prosecuted him out to other inmates for sex. Wow.

(37:43):
I was fascinated
because I didn't know what rock bottom was, but I thought at this point, that's gotta be rock bottom. Without a doubt. So in in the book, you can read about that story in much more in-depth detail. You can also see a picture. I call it the taboo tattoo. It's extremely taboo.
And this poor guy, I mean, that that's beyond rock bottom for a heroin addiction. That kinda shocked me, but that was kinda the start of these

(38:06):
sexual stories that are that are crimes,
but they had a whole different connotation to them when you when you got into it. Now, you know, I know earlier we said that, you know, Alaska is a beautiful state. It's a beautiful place to live, beautiful place to visit.
Why do you think that so many
dark
personalities and criminals end up in Alaska?

(38:27):
It's a good question. We have a small population about 700,000
in our state, massive state, two and a half times the size of the state you live in, which is a big state. Yeah. So it's massive territory. I think what happens is Alaska's always been independent,
like, very land of the free.
So people kinda that don't fit in elsewhere love to come to Alaska because they think that

(38:47):
they could perhaps get away with more, that we don't have sophisticated law enforcement,
you know, departments,
which is totally untrue. So I think we we get a lot of that. In fact, we're the we have the most serial killers per capita of anywhere in The United States. Right. A lot of them come up there because there's a lot of land mass to dispose of bodies,
thinking they can get away with it. But I think that's part of it. We get a lot of the odd ducks that

(39:10):
come up to Alaska thinking that maybe it'll be better for them. They can kinda do their own thing. Obviously, it doesn't end up working out for them, but I think that's probably the reason.
Yeah. Also,
just just this just the sheer size of Alaska too. I mean, you could just easily just disappear into into the into the wilderness. If you're if you're adept at that type of lifestyle, you could just disappear into the wilderness, nobody ever see you again.

(39:33):
You know, so I I I yeah. I I kinda see where you're going with that. Now you've you've also looked at a lot of some of the probably the most disturbing sex crimes
that you could possibly imagine.
What what do you think is is
is the driving force behind
that type of a deviance?

(39:54):
Yeah. I I say that's that's an easy answer only because of my experience and how many cases I've worked and my actual question to these deviance.
It's all power. 100
power. Yeah. You know, as a young cop, I thought that sexual deviancy was about the sex, the biological acts of having sex. I quickly realized that's that's not it at all. It's the power. They get more joy off the power of inflicting pain on these individuals

(40:18):
than anything about the physical act, which that kinda shocked me. Yeah. But to a t, every one of them and I would always ask them. I would I get real in-depth in these interrogations or interviews because I wanted to know what makes you a better investigator
if you know how a criminal thinks. Sure. So I I would get the darkest admissions, and they would be quite frank. You know, after you talk to somebody for four or five hours, you can wear them down a little bit, and they'll they'll just tell you. They'll be like, it was about the power. I like to dominate. I like to relive that. But it was you know, they almost got high in their head from the power.

(40:48):
So I talk about that a lot in the book as to why they they commit these crimes and the reasons behind them, and, ultimately, it just comes out of that.
Yeah. And I'd you know, in my career,
in whether it's in uniform or as an investigator, you know, I I didn't really come across too much of of that, like, or at least I wasn't assigned a lot of that, you know, those type of cases.

(41:09):
I had I I had one I had one incident where I was actually,
I was a new I was a new sergeant. Just got my Chevrons,
and I was I was assigned to a to a training command.
And,
the, commanding officer, the our our
our our captain,
decided that I was gonna be his driver. And I don't know if they do that in Alaska. They don't do that. No. But here here, you one once you get Chevrons, you become you you get a chauffeur as they're called. And,

(41:38):
so you get this officer to drive you around, but, of course, you know, lieutenants, captains, and up, they get, you know, the next rank down, gets to drive them around.
So,
so the captain picked on me to to be his chauffeur for a day,
and,
we were in the Central Park area in Midtown Manhattan.
And, we came across this,
this, it it was like

(41:59):
a it was it was up in a in a little like a slope going into Central Park, and,
it was known for,
homeless encampments,
lots of drug use, and so on and so forth.
And the captain I I knew the captain because,
when I was in the academy, he was an instructor in the academy,
and, he remembered me, which is why he selected me to be his driver.

(42:21):
And, great guy, you know, really had a lot of respect for him. A lot of super smart guy. Knew the job inside and out. And I don't think he was expecting to walk into what we walked into. I think he was just trying to, you know, show me around a little bit, and, you know, we ended up walking into this, what looked like a homeless encampment.
We started looking around, and,

(42:43):
out of nowhere, this guy just came out from, like, behind, it's like a it's like a a rock, and there was some trees, if I'm remembering right. And he comes out from behind the rock, and he's holding a broken mirror, a a shard of glass, and he's taking swipes at us.
So, of course, you know, self defense. We're gonna subdue this guy, throw him in handcuffs,
trying to load him up in the car. As we're loading him up in the car, he's peeing all over himself. He's peeing all over the place,

(43:08):
get in the car,
and,
he he turns around. Now the captain decided he was gonna drive because he didn't wanna be anywhere near this guy. So he he goes, I'll drive. You you you sit with him. Alright.
And, and that's how you did back in New York. You know, you actually sat in the back seat with the guy at the time. Yeah. You know, it's different now, but then that's what you did.

(43:29):
And,
so I'm sitting there, I'm sitting next to this guy, and well, he's just, like, just giving me this dead faced stare the whole time.
And he leans over to me and he goes, hey.
Just like this. He goes, hey.
Did you ever get a from a little boy?
He goes, it's the best thing in the world, man. He goes, you got a little boy, don't you? You have a little boy. He goes, you're gonna let him my you know? And I was like

(43:57):
and I just feel like, you know, you you start getting bit. And then
he
then and then he defecates,
and he pees all over the back of the car.
And
turns out that this guy actually had two outstanding warrants,
for,

(44:19):
child molestation.
He was,
he was wanted in,
I think it was Connecticut
I think it was Connecticut
for, the rape of a minor,
and
all all young boys,
everything he was involved with. And when I got the opportunity to actually look at the file

(44:43):
on this guy, man, it turned my stomach.
Oh, yeah. That's cool. Turned my stomach. But, you know, it wasn't a case that I had to investigate or anything like that, but just from reading just the small snippets. So I can only imagine,
you know you know, having to deal with that
on an everyday basis. Could you I I like I so I I know in in larger police departments, they have specific units assigned to those things and those types of cases. That's, you know, that's the way it is. It just happens to work that way. I don't think I'd be able to do something like that.

(45:12):
I don't think I'd be able to work in those types. I think I'm with you. Like, pedophilia working that. I I don't Yeah. They have to be a short time. That's that's a little too intense. I will tell your listeners
my book a couple of things, like, there's no I stay away from the pedophilia cases. Those are brutal. Mhmm. Sexual assaults, I stay away from. But, I mean, there are some hardcore things. I mean, we have necrophilia
Yeah. Which for the listeners that don't know is is sex with corpses. I always find that, you know,

(45:36):
really odd and just
incredible to me that people engage in that. Bestiality is one that we've had some issues with in Alaska. Mhmm. Again, that's nationwide and worldwide on that.
But and then we talk a lot about autoerotic in the book and things like that. So it's it's a spectrum. I don't quite go over the
to those because those are so extreme. Oh, yeah. Of course. Yeah. No. I know. It's just it's That that's a hard one. Hopefully, the guy got, several hundred years and locked up forever because,

(46:02):
that's one crime I'll tell you and, you know, you worked it as well. People ask me, do you believe in rehabilitation?
And I absolutely do. Everybody deserves a second chance. Sure. Pedophilia is one crime I've never seen somebody rehabilitated from in my career. And maybe I have a small subset in Alaska, but I believe that's one crime that you can't be rehabilitated from. So, unfortunately, you gotta you gotta lock them up and throw away the key. I agree with you on that. I I totally agree with you. I I have not come across anything that doesn't show at some point somewhere

(46:30):
that,
someone who who has that type of deviance
in their life is
they always tend to go back to it in one form or another. And and and just so we understand something,
whether you look whether it's just a picture or whether it's actually acting it out, it is the same exact revolting, disgusting,

(46:52):
deviant behavior
that you should absolutely be locked up and removed from society for the rest of your life.
And I just wanna make that clear. I know people think that, you know, we're saying, it's okay. You could look at this. No. No. No. No. Yeah. Not the way it works. Yeah. I had an interesting interview with a pedophile, and I asked him, what why do you commit these acts? Can you stop? And he's like, no. I can't stop. So I I I wanted to know why can't you stop. Like, you're harming children.

(47:18):
So he he said, I assume by your wedding ring that you're married,
to a woman. I said, yes. And he said, could if I told you tomorrow
you had to have sex with a man or something else, could you do it? And I was like, no. And he's like, that's exactly where I'm at. Mhmm. You're trying to tell me I can't have sex. This was his mindset.
And it and it clicked with me that we're you can't rehabilitate. We can't help individuals like that other than protecting society from them. It's a small percentage for your listeners that we have to lock away indefinitely, but there are some criminals that you have to do that. Yeah. I get it. We wanna help everybody, but that's not realistic. There's evil out there, and you gotta stop them. Exactly.

(47:54):
Well, we're running out of time already.
So I'm just gonna throw a couple more questions your way, and then, we're gonna move on to, to our next guest who's waiting in the waiting room already.
Let's see. So,
I I this is actually a question that somebody had asked me, to ask you.
Do you have any safe legal,
teachable

(48:14):
tidbits that you could
share with the audience that they could take home with them, that they could
work on for themselves
in order to,
protect themselves, defend themselves. I know every state has different laws in,
like, Texas. We have the castle doctrine here in Texas. You know, you step in my property, and I'm warning you to get off. You don't get off and you try to do something, I can do what I gotta do to take care of it. But, but what could you provide what kind of information or advice can you provide to the audience that they can kinda hold on to, that's safe and legal and

(48:48):
oh, you got the idea. You know where I'm going. Yeah. I know. I love I love the question. I get asked this a lot, especially by by women.
And what I'd say is is always follow your gut. If something feels wrong or you don't know if it's
suspicious or just feels a little bit
indifferent, don't do it. Don't go in a dark, garage. Mhmm. Do I still have you, Joe? Or I think I froze up. No. I'm here. I gotcha.

(49:12):
I gotcha. Yeah. Just follow your gut most of the times. Don't put yourself in a bad situation.
Of all the victims I've ever interviewed,
before the crime actually happened, they had a bad sense. They they knew that something was off with this person. They shouldn't be around them. Maybe they should leave, but they thought it can't happen to me. So I tell my my daughters this as well. Follow your gut. If something feels wrong, go the other way. Every individual has an absolute right to protect themselves.

(49:37):
So I believe in in concealed carry.
I believe in protecting yourself.
Again, you have to be very careful. I like the training courses that citizens go through Mhmm. So they're adept in using firearms and safe and all that kind of stuff. But
protect yourself first. Cops are great when you call them, but we can't be there every moment. You're gonna have to protect yourself. So follow your gut. Even as a guy, it doesn't matter.

(49:59):
Don't put yourself in situations where you know they could be kinda off a little bit and something could happen. Just remove yourself. It's not worth it. And then you're not in that situation where you may have to fire or protect yourself or become a victim yourself. So follow your gut. That's the best advice I I can ever give anybody. And that's great too. Because actually, that was my that was one of my last questions I was gonna ask you. If there was any, if if there was any one specific in in just a sentence you could speak into the minds of people listening right now,

(50:25):
what would it be? And I think you hit it right there. You know, just a situational awareness. Be be aware of what's going on around you at all times.
You know, and sometimes people think, well, man, how could you always be thinking like that? Oh, you know what? After you've done it for a little while, it's second nature. You don't even realize you're doing it, but you're doing it. And, you just gotta keep doing it. And even even though I have not

(50:47):
worked in law enforcement in, what, ten years now, almost ten years,
I still
am very, very mindful of my surroundings and who's around me,
and whatnot. I carry,
you know, that's one of the great things about living here in Texas. You have open carry. You have concealed carry.
You know, and,
and you consider you think of where I live. I I live on the border and, you know, I've got tons

(51:10):
tons of issues with that, but
violent crime here is
relatively low.
And I think that's because the majority of people here are walking around carrying. You know, they can they can defend themselves.
You know? Yep. The, like like,
and plus there's also multilayers here. I don't know how it is up in up in Alaska where you're from, but here,

(51:32):
there's multiple layers of law enforcement. You have the city police,
you have the county sheriff,
and then you have constables,
You have the state police.
There's constantly a police presence around here, and it's not oppressive. People might think like that if you hear, well, you got the sheriff, the police, and that. It's not a you don't you don't even realize they're around.

(51:52):
You know? It's it's one of those it's a great feeling. Like, I lived in New York, and I grew up in New York. I mean, New York, you feel a police presence. You know, there are when I left New York City and I I left uniform service, there were 40,000
cops
in New York City alone.
You know? And that's not including the sheriff's department and and all the other smaller,
agencies around there. But,

(52:14):
you know, you got 40,000 cops. You got cameras on every street corner, every traffic light. Everywhere you turn around, you're being watched and monitored. It's not like that here. Here, people are more conscious and aware of what's going on around them.
People can defend themselves, take care of themselves. So you think about, like, Maverick County, the county sheriff here.
There's what? At most, there's six

(52:36):
deputies
on patrols, and they're covering the whole county.
Jeez. You know? The city police only cover the city of Eagle Pass.
You know? The constable only covers certain areas around the area around the around the county.
So, you know, your first line of defense anywhere really is the sheriff's department. They're the constitutional office. You know, they have that responsibility, so on and so forth. Another issue, another talk, another day. But Yeah.

(53:01):
But when you think about it, you're
you know, if you have six deputies on patrol at any particular time, and I'm just, you know, I'm going off the top of my head with a number,
sometimes it might be a good fifteen, twenty minutes before somebody gets to you or longer, depending on where you are in the county.
And, so you do need to be aware of your surrounding. You need need to be able to defend yourself. And, you know,

(53:24):
I tell people all the time, you know, if you if you can legally get yourself a firearm and you can legally carry a firearm or have one on your premises, do it. Protect yourself. Protect your family.
Let's see. One more one more question here for you, bud.
So if, we wanted to find out more about you, where we can where can we go to do that, and, more importantly, where can they buy your book? Yeah. If you wanna check out the book, I got 50 shades of true crime,

(53:49):
dougfifer.com.
That's my website. Just d0ugfifer.com.
You can watch the book trailer. It shows you some sexy scenes of Anchorage too where I worked Nice. And then some of the,
details of the of the book. So if you want a true crime book like you've never read before, this is the one. Again, it's it's got some extreme fetishes, paraphilias.
Most of them are Alaska cases. Some are jurisdictions I worked with in the Lower 48. But, again, most of them are all Alaska based.

(54:15):
You would find these crimes all across the nation, not just Alaska.
But you'll read some stuff that you're not used to. The chapter starts off with name that crime. Mhmm. So the reader gets to kinda see a booking photo or a piece of evidence, read some statutes, some criminal statutes, and guess what that individual
individual did. And then you read the true case case crime and then see if you're right or not. So it's a fun way like an icebreaker to start it off. Sure. And then we move into more extreme, cases. At the very end, teachable tidbits.

(54:42):
That's a chapter about some
things you can incorporate in your own sex life that are perfectly legal that I learned while being a cop. You may want to, you may not want to. I found them very strange and interesting. Okay. Haven't got to that part yet.
That's up to the reader. That's at the end of the chapter. I let you down nice and easy.
But some of them you might incorporate with your significant other. Some you may not. That's up to the reader. Alright. Outstanding. So, Doug, I'd love to have you come back on the show again so we could spend some more time talking about some of the more details, and specific cases that you worked on and and some of the motivations behind the book, you know, in in telling those stories.

(55:15):
So, let's let's keep in touch, and let's make sure that, we get you booked again at some point. You know, whenever you have some extra time to do it, we'll make sure we'll clear out the whole two hours for you.
Sounds good, Joe. Awesome, man. Alright. Good talking to you. Thank you. Doug Pfeiffer, thank you so much. Take care, and God bless you. Stay safe out there, brother. You too, man. Thank you. Alright.
Alright, folks. So we are, we're gonna take a little break here, so I can kinda reset everything here for our next guest who's waiting for us,

(55:41):
in in the, in the studio room. And, when we come back from this very, very short break, we'll pick up with Julian Raven. And, this should be I'm just reading over some of the materials that I have and, that we be put together for Julian and,
has some incredible stories here we're gonna we're gonna talk about. Alright, folks. So with that said, don't forget this is a live show weeknights, 7PM central time. We have our Saturday spotlight show at 3PM,

(56:05):
on Saturday afternoons, and then we also have our Sunday show at 6PM
central time, all central time. And, we look forward to connecting with you guys right there,
for all those different shows that we're doing. And, who knows? We might do even more stuff. Why? Because I'm crazy. That's why. And I and I love to do this, and it's a lot of fun for me, and I enjoy it immensely.

(56:27):
And so we, we're gonna see what we can work out. Alright, folks. So, again, this is the Joe Russo. We'll be back right after this live show. Don't forget to like, subscribe, and share with your friends, your family, and your followers.
That way you'll help us to spread the show, help us to grow the audience,
and,
let our voices be heard. Alright? And we'll be back right after this, about three minutes.

(57:02):
Up and down,
counting down,
smiling through the taste of blood in my own mouth.
I got bruises
and broken bones,
but they don't know I ain't in this ring alone.

(57:28):
I'm a fighter.
No one can say that I'm a run

(57:50):
when I'm tired.
I'm a fighter.
I get back up.
That's what I do.
I didn't soldier
on this far. Just to

(58:11):
lose.
So take your shot.
Is that all you got?

(59:03):
That I'm a fighter.
No one can say that I'm a running
hotter.
Don't

(59:50):
Alright.
Well, folks, we are back.
This is Joe Ruse. Welcome to the Joe Ruse Show. Hour
number one
is in the books.
And, we are about to get started here in hour number two with our special guest,
Julian Raven.

(01:00:12):
Should be
a great conversation. I was doing some research
earlier today, and, really excited to talk to Julian.
But,
I know you might not have heard his name, I don't know, but,
he sounded familiar to me when I when he popped up on our on our, our service here and,
had to look him up and,
really impressed

(01:00:33):
with what I came across here. Now, folks, just wanna remind you again, of course, that this is a live show weeknight 7PM central time,
and,
we love to have the interactions that we have. So if you are watching live right now, you wanna have any questions or you could just drop them to the live chat, comment down below. And don't forget to head over to our website, joeroos.com.
That's joeroos.com.

(01:00:55):
Open up the web form. Send us over any questions, comments, cares, or concerns that you might have, and, also any suggestions that you might have. Any any,
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(01:01:19):
housekeeping type of thing.
We didn't do that.
So let's do that really quickly right now.
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Alright. Now tonight's guest

(01:06:03):
for our second hour
spent,
let's see, where are we?
He is an artist with a brush in one hand and the constitution
in the other.
His name, Julian Raven. He is the only American artist to take the Smithsonian
Institution to federal court twice. Not just once,

(01:06:24):
but twice.
And not only that,
the Supreme Court three times.
His legal odyssey started move this over here a little bit so I make sure I got it all. All, to federal court twice, the US Supreme Court three times. His legal odyssey started in 2015
when his prophetic portrait of Donald Trump was rejected

(01:06:45):
by the National Portrait Gallery. What followed was nearly a decade of legal firepower, national headlines, and unanswered constitutional questions.
At the center of it all, a debate.
The courts still won't settle.
Is the Smithsonian a federal agency or public trust?
And what does that mean for free speech in America?
Julian is also the author of Odius and Cerebras,

(01:07:08):
an American Immigrants Odyssey,
and his Free Speech Legal War Against Smithsonian Corruption.
He's pulling back the curtain on the contradictions inside our institutions
and how one man's refusal to stay silent
can shake the foundations of power.
Alright.
Julian, if you're there with us,
let's get into it.

(01:07:34):
Good evening. Good evening, Joe. I am here. Can you hear me? I got you, brother. I got you. How you doing? Welcome aboard. I'm doing great. Good to yeah. Thank you. We're great to be with you and enjoyed the last, few minutes of your show there before. So it's, good to be on and good to be able to to tell this ongoing saga or this odyssey that I happen to fall into and I'm part of today. Well, you have an interesting accent. Why don't you give us some background on that?

(01:08:01):
Born in London,
1972,
raised in Spain
since I was two years old. So I lived about twenty six years in Spain, twenty seven years, I think, in total with what I was there,
2023.
And the rest of my life here in The US is, like, half in Spain, half in The US, and, the first two in London, England.

(01:08:24):
Alright.
Well, I always like to start off the interviews,
with our guests, or I don't even know what to call them interviews. They're more like, you know, casual conversations, two friends sitting around, you know, shooting the shit.
So
that said, give us something that most people don't know about you but should.
Well,
there's there can be a,

(01:08:46):
you know, big a broad portrait or self portrait painted. I mean, most people, what they don't know
is probably contained in the book, which you,
quoted there, Odius and Cerberus,
my journey to The United States.
There's a lot there is so much to the story that
you really have to take time to look into. The the book was a production. It was a two week

(01:09:08):
download for me after years of litigation, about a 100,000 words in two weeks. It's 450
pages, and there's a lot there
that is highly beneficial to the American citizen, not only about history, American history, but Smithsonian history,
scandals, and all of the other parts that go to this, incredible institution.

(01:09:29):
So about me personally,
I don't know how to even answer that question, to be honest with you. It was a it was it sick me off guard because there's so much there. There's a lot so that people don't know. Okay. Alright.
How about has it here's an easier one.
What's your go to beverage to unwind at the end of the day?
Oh, cup of tea. Okay. Of course. Alright.

(01:09:51):
See, I I I'm I'm I'm double shooting over here tonight. I have I have my coffee, which by the way, again, for those who just tuning in, I wanna say thank you to the, Creepy Coffees
podcast for the, coffee mug and for the, the future ghost t shirt that you guys sent me. Thank you so much for that. I promise you I'd wear on the show. Here we are. Unplugging your show, not my own.

(01:10:12):
That's love, buddies. Alright. Yeah.
And, Yeah. Yeah. And the other side cup of tea tea is the that's my
my go to always there. And it's and it has to be for the Brit. It has to be like the lip no. Well, not even Lipton. It has to be PG Tips
is a a very good, tea brand that I enjoy. Okay.
Earl Grey?
Earl Grey too. Earl Grey is more of that sort of once in a while type of tea. It's very beautiful, the flavor of it. Mhmm. The PG tips is the sort of run of the mill everyday,

(01:10:41):
cup of tea. Gotcha. Well, this is my Earl Grey right here. This is my,
this this is this is my bourbon for the night. So Absolutely. You know, so salute. Cheers.
Salute. Cheers. Yep.
Alright.
So
now you're not you're not just an artist. Right? And and, by the way,
I did I was looking up,
and I believe this is yours. Correct? Tell me if I'm wrong.

(01:11:05):
Yeah. That's me.
There you go. That's you without the beer? That's
right. Alright. So this is this is the That's me in studio where I am right now in Upstate New York. Oh, great. Oh, you're in New York. Yeah. I'm from New York. Yep. I'm in I'm in Okay. I heard that in the at the end of your show there before. That's great. Native New York.
Well, I I was born and raised in Brooklyn, New York in Sheepshead Bay. Okay.

(01:11:26):
I worked for New York City for twenty almost twenty five years,
and,
I worked in law enforcement.
And, then, I retired about ten years ago,
and I shifted my way down here to Texas, and now I live in a small little border town called Eagle Pass. And,
loving every minute of it. You can see I got my my flags here behind me. You know? Texas.

(01:11:50):
Well, it's good. Good to talk to New York. They you know, the issues that we've been facing. Oh, yes. You know, the the you mentioned a few of them there on the end of your show. But, yeah, that's
interesting. The background, the similarity, you understand where I am located. I'm in Upstate New York in, in the city of Elmira. Oh, I know Elmira. South. Elmira. Okay. Yeah. I've been there many times. Many times. Lots of prisons. Yes.

(01:12:14):
We're like the state capital for the prisons and jails and super maxes, I think. So Yes.
Yes. When they say upstate, we're going upstate, you go to Elmyra. And and you and you can get a tour of these, maximum security facilities. All you need to do is break a law in downstate,
and they'll send you up that way. Going up to Elmira. Yeah. But listen, the the city has a the history being the the home of Mark Twain, which is Yes. Is little little known, but is a great deal. You know? He is he has his he has his his little writing studio is about

(01:12:47):
400 yards from where I am right now. It's in part of the college campus that's here, and they have this little studio where he used to sit and write. So that's inspiring for an author to have such proximity. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.
And, you know, I I love Mark Twain's works, and so I that's that's that's always that's that's that's one of the great things about New York. There's so much history.

(01:13:09):
It is Yeah. It is absolutely packed. It is history rich.
And, you know, and I guess, you know, anywhere you could say that. You know, they they have they have their little
things that they're known for, but I don't know. There's just something about the history of New York. Maybe it's because it's one of the original 13 and, you know Right. Yeah. Yeah. And it just don't it's like the the forefront. It was the the it was the the, you know, this is the the the frontier of of, really, of freedom, you know, like the others the other colonies on the coast. So, you know Yeah. Absolutely. We and we too in Elmira here, we have the

(01:13:39):
Newtown
Battlefield, which I live right next to where actually
a lot of this story
unfolded when I lived there.
And that's probably four or five miles from here. And that that battle,
battle of Newtown, was where,
you know, New York State would have become part of Canada
had, you know, the Brits won. Yeah. And that battle was the deciding battle that allowed New York State to remain part of The United States. So amazing. Again, great history right here where I am. So Yeah. Absolutely. It's all good. Yes, sir. And then,

(01:14:13):
piece of history here. I, before I moved to Texas, I lived on Staten Island.
And little interesting piece of history
about Staten Island is I'm not sure too many how many people know this, but the the last cannon shot of the American Revolution was fired from Tottenville,
Staten Island as the British Navy was leaving

(01:14:35):
Perth Perth Perth Amboy,
and the reason why is because the, the Brits greased the flagpole,
which which prevented
the, the, the the new state of New York from flying
the Betsy Ross flag,
and so they took potshots at the navy as they were leaving Perth Amboy for greasing the flagpole.

(01:14:57):
For greasing the flagpole. Yeah. And there's act there's actually a there's actually a city park at the very, very end of of, of of of Tottenhamville,
which is,
right across from Perth Amboy. You could actually swim from Tottenhamville to Perth Amboy. I wouldn't, but you could, if you're daring.
So, so it's a city park there. There's actually a house there. It's called the Conference House.

(01:15:19):
And, that that Conference House is where,
the American delegation of John Adams,
the,
oh, my my history just flipped out of my head. But John Adams and two other gentlemen met with the British to discuss the final terms of peace,
after
that for the conclusion of the American Civil War, Revolutionary War. Revolution. Yeah. That's awesome. So it's a wonderful you know, the history there is just absolutely wonderful. And, I got some great ghost stories about it too. So I'll but I'll save those for the creepy coffees podcast folks. I'll tell them those stories later on. But,

(01:15:54):
but you're not just an artist though. You you're also somebody who took on the Smithsonian,
and,
and your lawsuit made it all the way up to the Supreme Court. Alright. So
give us an idea of what this is really all about. Now we already showed the the the painting,
that that you've you've done, and,
just, like, bring it bring it to us. Tell us what exactly,

(01:16:18):
started this whole journey that you're on with these lawsuits and and taking on the Smithsonian.
It's a great story.
You know, life is is really a mystery how things like this happen to you. You know, you're never expecting to be part of something like this. And then suddenly you are. And it's funny. I used to remember as a young boy growing up in Southern Spain, I I grew up in a beautiful place called Marbella, right on the Mediterranean

(01:16:44):
of about an hour from Gibraltar. You can see Africa across the water. I mean, that's right at the bottleneck of Europe.
And, you know, Spain is beautiful. Marbella was a beautiful place to grow up, but really nothing went on there. It was just sort of good food and culture and beaches and nightlife, and that's sort of it. And I grow up as a young man.
You know, there was this old,
Chinese proverb I used to read in this book, and it was like, may you be born in interesting times. I used to think of my life and said, you know, this is just not very interesting here. It's just always the same same old. Then, you know, fast forward

(01:17:17):
twenty five years or whatever, and you end up stuck in the middle of a story that you could never have imagined. And
I can't say that it is not interesting anymore. It's amazing. It's been a journey of learning,
a great journey for myself personally, you know, and and especially, I think, more than anything, because of all the discouragements and the heartache and the disappointments
and the letdowns

(01:17:37):
that I've been through, it's been
you know? And it's an eight year struggle for me, and it's still going on.
But when I look at the big picture of it, it's a remarkable
story that I think not that it can only happen in The United States,
America and the
the life that we live and the laws that have framed this country. They they facilitate

(01:18:01):
these stories to take place because people we the people can participate
in this
experiment
and actually have an active part in trying to help it be formed in the way that we believe that was closest to the way our founders believe, the vision that they had. So,
you know, why and and how I got involved in this, you know, the the it's a long story.

(01:18:22):
There's a lot of fascinating details, a lot of fascinating,
study and research,
like I mentioned earlier. But the the start of it was really,
obviously, coming to this country, falling in love with America, not wanting to stay at the beginning, wanting to go to Mexico.
I had come here as a missionary. I was on my way to California to go to Mexico, but my plans changed. God had changed my direction, and I ended up in New York. And it's where I went met my wife in a town called Nyack, which you might have visited sometime right across the Tappan Zee Bridge. Yep. Nyack, New York. I was there for ten years, met Met my beautiful wife, had our children, started a family. You know, America just was this land that, you know, of opportunity and dreams really giving opportunity. But for me as somebody who,

(01:19:06):
you know, I don't just delve into things lightly. I try to understand things. Since a young lad, I was always taking things apart, wanting to understand how they worked.
Being an American was, well, what is it? What does it mean? What does it what does it say?
And when I read the constitution, I was like, wow. This applies to me. Yeah. I used to carry it around with me. We used to minister on the streets, my wife and I. We'd we'd wave it like this. You know, we'd have people come up to us or the police come up. So, oh, you come. I say, excuse me. Look at this law. This is the law that binds us all. We have the freedom to be doing this. What a wonderful country we live in. Amen. So I'm the type of person to sort of take things, you know, straight on at their face and to do it. Live it. Be it. Take live this dream

(01:19:47):
that we've been given. So
Donald Trump, you know, as a New Yorker, as you would have known, you know, you you knew more than anything, but I knew because my business was 18 miles north of Manhattan.
I'd go into New York City, and there's Trump Trump Trump. You could see everywhere. There was always something going on with it. Whether it was a a a side or a sign on the side of the road that Donald Trump paid for the sign or this 100 feet of, the the West Side Parkway was being cleaned.

(01:20:14):
You could see that every it was it was it was present. And then this the news I mean, the, the show, I used to watch that, The Apprentice. And I was like, yeah. This guy, I like the way he's just a straight shooter, and he just would deal with things. And and it was always, you know, interesting to me. But 02/2014,
now being part of New York State,
becoming
concerned,

(01:20:35):
wanting to be part of a solution,
you know, Donald Trump had showed signs to become governor, and he had an exploratory committee. I remember that too. I was in converse yeah. I was in conversation with friends of mine up here, and they're like, you know, Trump wants to run. And I'm like, well, that's better than what we have. And a business man with some business savvy is, maybe the answer. But then the Republican

(01:20:59):
committee was not interested. He didn't get the, you know, the the thumbs up because it was passed. And so it fell through, and it's like, oh, it was it was it was sort of very hopeful for us here in in Upstate New York.
And then come June 2000,
2015
and the escalator
and
how I was inspired to paint this painting is a it was a life life changing story and and spending then hundreds of hours painting this. And it's a you know, if you're gonna paint a painting I I'm a large format painter anyway. My studio is huge. I mean, that's seven by 15 feet, the painting in the frame.

(01:21:36):
Although that's the first frame, it's a little smaller, but in its finished frame now, it's eight by 16 feet long. So it's massive.
And so,
you know, I paint large format. My studio is 6,000 square feet. I got huge paintings in here. That's what I do.
And yet when you're gonna paint a painting of Donald Trump, you know, it's gotta be,
you know, huge. Of course. And,

(01:21:57):
so It has to match the personality.
Yeah.
And it does. I mean, even the big ornate gilded frame that I have on it now, it's like so,
all this journey as a as a
you know, and I became a citizen 2015
as well. So I was a newborn American citizen.
Congratulations. In the midst of painting this thank you. In the midst of painting this painting,

(01:22:20):
this excitement,
and then the journey. And I started and it was this again, I there are a lot of wonderful details in this book and this this incredible story that unfolded.
But after a year of campaigning and with across the country I just got a text message from Donald Trump, by the way.
What's that? I just got a spam text message from Donald Trump.

(01:22:45):
Well,
I was in Iowa at the caucuses.
I was the first one out there. I took I took the whole painting and the truck, and they lettered the truck up. And I went, and I was the grassroots camp that was the only grassroots campaign
for the Trump campaign in Iowa.
They never the the the media thought it was all a big scam because no one else was doing it. I said, no. I'm the guy on the ground here. I'm doing what we were going door to door, town to town. I did 5,000

(01:23:11):
miles around Iowa like this in a circle. Yeah. All the towns, all the cities. And
it was an amazing adventure. And, again, as a foreigner coming here as an immigrant, it was so wonderful meeting Iowans and this they're really a tough people. They are. Brutally January in Iowa is like this flat,
barren

(01:23:32):
tundra. You know? It's like Siberia. It's like just there's like
nothing out there. So you it's freezing, but the people, they're tough. They're all, like, you know, real,
like, movie set Americans. It's, like, really seriously it's it's it has that feel to it, but amazing. And just meeting people and and it's just, you know, good and bad because of driving around with a truck with that painting on the side got all sorts of responses.

(01:23:57):
So wonderful experience.
I was at the RNC. I was an alternate delegate. I had my my painting was on the screen at the RNC. I mean, it was seen. It was a it you know, it was really
an incredible journey.
And then what happened after Trump won, which wasn't a surprise because I painted it in the summer of twenty fifteen,

(01:24:17):
and it was a prediction because I was inspired and I believed he was gonna win, and I painted this picture. People thought I was mad. People at that time in the summer, they're like, no one's no. People that I knew, no one supported me him. They were like, yeah. I'd have to hold my nose to vote for this guy. You know? So it was a you know, it was way ahead of the of the curve in that sense. And

(01:24:37):
after this journey, after he won,
I was like, well, what do I do?
And I was sort of stumped for a few weeks. And I prayed. I was like, god, you know, what am I gonna do with this painting? I've worked so hard,
and
it's just sitting here. What am I doing? Well,

(01:25:04):
I didn't know exactly what that meant. I was like,
okay. The Smithsonian. I've heard of the Smithsonian. It sounds like a place where they have rockets and spaceships in Washington DC. I had no I didn't know anything more than that. And so when I began to research it,
it was amazing to me because I come across the National Portrait Gallery.

(01:25:24):
And
that study was like, wow. Look at this. They showed in 2009
and 02/2013,
they showed the Obama
Hope poster by Shepard Fairey, that iconic image that everybody had seen throughout. Oh, this image, it was highly, you know, promoted, was very much part of that campaign.
My painting was shown with that

(01:25:46):
poster. It's actually a it was a
photoshopped photo from the Internet, but it was turned into, like, a screen printed poster.
In Los Angeles in 2016,
at Politicon, they had the the big political conference thing out there, and they had the the the art of politics,
and the inspire inspiration and patron behind that work of art wasn't the artist. His name is Yossi Sajan. He's the guy with the brainchild and the

(01:26:12):
hardcore leftist activist
who wanted that image of Obama, and he pushed it. And he was the one that really made that thing what it was. The artist was some guy in the back streets of LA doing graffiti on walls. He pulled him aside, gave him some money, and said, make me a picture. And there and yet it turned around that this guy would then obviously become very well known, very famous along with the image.

(01:26:33):
So I find out that the National Portrait Gallery showed
the Obama
portrait,
01/20/2009,
01/20/2013.
Big festivals, lots of portraits of Obama. Mhmm. Wonderful. And I was like, wow. Praise god. This is great. I can submit my painting to the Smithsonian National Portrait Gallery, and they're just gonna put it up because they show political portraits

(01:26:59):
of candidates who win
for the inauguration as a tribute and a celebration. How wonderful. I got all these letters written by New York politicians and senators in New York and congressmen and the mayor of Elmira and art collectors and a radio host and all these people that knew the story.
They wrote all their letters. Yes. Yes. Yes. So it was a publicly supported application.

(01:27:21):
Representatives of maybe 200,000
people here in New York State.
And they all were like, yes. Of course. This is a show for the they it was wonderful, all this support.
I emailed the
director of the Smithsonian.
Her name is Kim Sayet. Didn't know who she was.
And the next day,
I phoned them,
and I speak to the secretary just to see you know, I'm a sort of forthright guy just to say, hey. I sent you this, application.

(01:27:48):
This is who I am. If there's anything else I need to do, please let me know. Call me, email me, whatever. I just wanted to show good faith, and
and then that was it. And I was expecting maybe she, the secretary, would call me. Well,
this, Joe, is where the story
really begins.
Okay.

(01:28:08):
Let's go
for it.
My phone rings about fifteen minutes after I called,
and it's from the number I called with one digit diff difference. So I knew it was coming from DC. Mhmm. And I think it's the secretary. So I answer the phone,
and it's an Australian
female accent.

(01:28:29):
And I'm like and it's, oh, hello. This is Kim Sayet, the director of the Smithsonian. This is she calls me.
And I'm, you know, I'm someone that has a lot of respect for authority and, you know, you you this is the director of the national the Smithsonian National Portrait Gallery. Not exactly what that was, but to me, that's a big deal. Sure. She's calling me,

(01:28:50):
and I'm sitting down. So I stand up in my office. I'm like, oh I'm like, oh my goodness. This is this you know, you gotta you show respect and this is
and
immediately,
in this very snooty
accent,
she began to sort
of unravel
in front of me

(01:29:11):
or her mask becomes to come off. She's like, oh, you're you're the guy that, you know, sort of the the be the painting with the face and the eagle. And she's well, she's like, no. No. No. She says it's too big.
And I said, you know,
I I'm I'm the type of person that, you know, I'm gonna defer to authority.
Either you wanna respect them and Of course. Immediately, you sort of like, oh, you're trying to say, oh, oh my goodness. It's too and then I'm like, it's too big.

(01:29:36):
And then I'm like, I start to create, what what do you mean it's too big?
You know, how how big is too big? You know? Was it where's is there a is there a dimension restriction?
No
dimension restriction. They didn't have anything. So that she's making up her own
arbitrary
objections.
So she jumps quickly to the next one, which was this is the best one because this made her this set her off completely,

(01:30:01):
which was the best in the sense of
unraveling the whole dialogue became a full blown argument.
She says, oh, it's not from life.
And as a as a portrait painter, if you paint portraits, if you paint if I paint you sitting there in front of you and I set up my easel, Joe, and I paint you, that's a portrait from life. Right. Directly painting the subject from life. Okay. And I said, hold on a minute. I said, the Obama portrait,

(01:30:26):
which I knew the whole story
shown with the paint with the portrait in in LA, knew the guy that inspired you know what I mean? So I knew the story really well.
And I say the Obama portrait
wasn't from life.
It was a photoshopped photo.
Well, she shot back. Yes. It was.
Oh, and she starts lying now. And I now I went from the sort of the the the posture of deference and, you know, all this to to now being really disturbed and being like, what?

(01:30:57):
What? Excuse me? You
I know this, and she's
she's stamping her feet
because as I'm
basically
contesting rebutting
her
arbitrary objections,
she's now making stuff up. And that really triggers me because now I know she's lying to me. And now I get a feeling, hold on a sec. This call isn't a friendly call.

(01:31:21):
This call is something else. And so
she's you know, the voice raises up now, and then she jumps to the next one. She says, well, it's it's too pro Trump. It's not neutral enough. And I'm like, too pro Trump? I'm like, how can how can a portrait not be pro the subject? It's like it's a it's about Trump. That's what like, the Obama portrait was about Obama. How could it not be Right. Pro Obama? You know, it's it's just stupid.

(01:31:44):
So she again, she backs off, and then she goes to the next thing. She goes,
oh, well, now it's a it was
too big. It was too pro Trump. It was not for right. Then she says, it's too political.
I
said, too political?
I said, how could it be too political? You
showed the Obama

(01:32:05):
Hope
portrait, which was a political
campaign
portrait Right. Seen across the world
to promote
and elect this man.
And you showed it,
and you waved your flags for them. And you're you're telling me my and and my painting's too what is it? It's offensive to paint the American flag? It's offensive to paint the American eagle? I mean, I'm like my mind's now saying, what what this this doesn't

(01:32:34):
compute? So as she's now getting really flustered as I'm pushing back on all of these objections.
She, knowing very well the art world
and artists and, you know, when we when an artist approaches a gallery,
you know, one of the the most painful part of our journey as art is you get rejected a lot. People just sort of

(01:32:54):
they cast you aside for arbitrary reason. And in the world, you know, the art world, you can be rejected for whatever reason. There's no there's that's it. But this was a different
setup.
This was like, okay.
Well, this you showed this other portrait.
Mine then has
standing to be shown because you've already done it. In my mind, that's how it worked.

(01:33:16):
And so she jumps to the last thing, which was basically now wanting to sort of drive her little needle in and insult me and just basically
say, oh, it's no good, she says. And it's no good. And I said,
excuse me. I said, this painting is
seven by 15 feet.
You have seen a maybe a a four by six inch reproduction

(01:33:37):
on a on a computer screen,
and you're gonna tell me
that this is
no good and you've never seen it in person?
And she said, well well, where where where is it? You know, try to justify that. Oh, well and I said, yeah. It's in Upstate New York. You'd have to come and come up and see it and everything.
She's now getting to the point of, you know what? I don't wanna deal with this guy.

(01:34:00):
And before long, she goes in her snooty
Australian action. She goes, I'm the director of the National Portrait Gallery.
Your application will go no further. You can appeal it all you want. And she she hangs on the floor like this.
Holy cow.
Wow.
And
I was stunned.

(01:34:22):
I it's the opening chapter of my book.
It it wasn't just like,
oh, dear. What a problem.
This was the chapter the first chapter is called power and abuse.
This was
this was abuse, you know, because, again Sure. Absolutely. My
yeah. When when when, you know, your your posture before authority like that is in my eyes, you know, it's deference or you're, you know, you're in a vulnerable situation. You're you're thinking that they know what they're talking about. You gotta trust them, and you gotta

(01:34:52):
and so she was like,
I'm just gonna I just and and I really believe she just she this was only weeks after Trump had won.
And remember how people were losing their minds
after the the election then? She was one of them, and she saw me
as a person that she could,

(01:35:12):
you know, obviously call up
and just
vent her and spew her vent. I was gonna say take out our frustrations on you.
And that's how that's how it felt. And it was it was devastating to me. It was it was traumatizing because I was stunned
that this official
had treated me like this. I couldn't talk to my family,

(01:35:34):
for two or three days about it. I talked to my wife by then.
She blew a gasket when she had she couldn't believe it.
And then I'm like, you know what? I walked around in a daze. I'm like, you know, before, I was like, what do I do? Now I've done this and these American people, the Smithsonian, go this way. This I'm like, I I couldn't Joe, I couldn't
you know, you

(01:35:56):
we we are human beings. We have feelings. We're sensitive
beings. And
when you go in good faith with something and you're just just
contributing and you go with such a good faith and they just
slap you like it was devastating to me. So I I couldn't be normal for for I don't know how long it took. But then I started to recover, and this is now that was 12/01/2016,

(01:36:22):
in a week, ten days, maybe two weeks into December,
the inauguration's
'20 January 20.
And in my mind, I hear, you can appeal it all you want. Click. And I'm like, appeal it all you want.
That's what I'm gonna do.
Challenge accepted. There you go. That's huge. Yeah. It's like I I one interview I gave, I said, that was the worst thing you could have ever said to me

(01:36:46):
because it's just not gonna sit well with me until I do exactly that. And so I then appeal. And now I say, well, what is the Smithsonian Institution? Who who runs it? Who's the boss? Mhmm.
I do this. There's a board of regents.
Who's on the board of regents? Oh my goodness. You know who's on the board of regents?

(01:37:08):
Chief justice John Roberts,
the vice president of The United States,
who at the time, you know, the vice pres I don't think it was Joe Biden who was vice president. Then it gives up Donald Obama. Yep.
Three members of Congress, three members of the senate,
and nine members of the public. 17
people. And I was like, woah. Big shot. Famous super

(01:37:30):
people. You know, these super super people. Super and I was like,
Okay. Well, here's my appeal. And I write out this huge writing with all everything she did and said and my application and all the letters that I was sent with me to to supporting this application, all the people that did it, and pictures, and this big and I, like, I like like this into the post office with a huge bundle of papers. All Right. They were, like, 60 page applications. See, I mean, I believe it was each one was packed. Big yellow Manila envelopes. Boom.

(01:38:00):
Boom. Boom. Boom. Boom. Chief justice system. Each of them by name sent them all off.
Didn't hear anything for, like, a two for two weeks, and time is running out. And then I get a letter in the mail by a gentleman by the name of Richard Curran,
doctor Richard Curran Excuse me. Who is a
Smithsonian

(01:38:21):
bigwig. You have the Board of Regents Mhmm.
And then you have all these Smithsonian officials from the secretary down,
all these
bureaucrats, or doctor Richard Curran
is some big cheese over there. He got the nod from John,
Roberts.
His letter says this very short. He says,
I

(01:38:41):
received your letter
from, I think you said, John Roberts or the board of regents.
I read
what Kim Saia did.
I agree with what she did. Goodbye.
And signed it. It was like a very short Wow. Thumbing
yeah. Yeah. Like that. And now

(01:39:03):
I before, it was like a black eye. Now it was like a kick right between the legs. And I'm standing
there with my eyes watering,
and I'm, like, stunned again. I'm like, I just sent an appeal
to the chief justice of The United States who happens to be the chancellor of the Smithsonian Institution
and this vice president of The United States Of America and three members of Congress and three members of the house, and I get a letter like this after what this woman did to me, I said, this is outrageous. And you know what's worse about it? Kim said it's Australian. She's not even an American.

(01:39:41):
She is a she is a a a a foreigner still
in The United States. And so here I'm getting kicked to the curb
by an Australian
in America
to a a Brit who just pledged
his life to defend The US constitution against all enemies,
foreign and domestic. And that happened on

(01:40:01):
the September 17,
Constitution Day Mhmm. 2015
in Brockport, New York. So this is fresh on the heels of that. I'm a newborn
citizen
of The United States, and this happens to me,
I'm just outraged, man. I am absolutely
outraged. I couldn't even imagine that.
Yeah.

(01:40:22):
Mind blowing. And that's that was that's that's the that's the part where
the part of departure before I get into federal litigation
because that was them slapping the the door of the Smithsonian in my face and basically
terfing me out onto the street. Say, get out of here, you little insignificant
nobody.
And the way that guy, Kieran, wrote to me was just shocking. You know?

(01:40:44):
I wrote an appeal,
and I wrote out what happened
and every detail.
And
you would expect at that level,
someone is going to adjudicate
an in
institution
appeal.
Mister Raven, we've considered what you've said or that blah blah blah blah. He couldn't address it. You know why?

(01:41:07):
Because he would be condemned trying to address what she did if he defended it. No. I'm curious about what they defend. Yeah. I don't mean to interrupt you, but I'm curious about one thing. I wonder if
you had
those two little letters in front of your name like he has and those little letters after your name like he has, if you would have gotten the same response.

(01:41:28):
Well, that that's another subject in the book, the prestige issue of the Chris the Smithsonian,
Joe,
is the sacred heart of Washington, DC. Mhmm. The Smithsonian Institution, what I discovered
in my years of study,
a remarkable institution
founded

(01:41:49):
by the bequest of a British gentleman by the name of James Smithson, never came to America,
gave his money pledged. It's so amazing story. Again, it's all in my book covered. How how how the money got here, sacks of gold shipped. I mean, it's amazing. It's really is. It's just it's sort of it's just it's unreal. It's almost ridiculous. Congress did with the money. $515,000

(01:42:13):
in 1836
was about $80,000,000
equivalent plus or minus in today's money.
And the first thing congress did with the money when they got it, guess what? So they they
borrowed it.
They What a surprise.
They bought money, and they said, we're gonna pay it. We're gonna pay 6%

(01:42:36):
interest on this money in they see that
the Smithsonian Institution, Joe,
is a charity. It's a private charity. Nothing more. Mhmm. It is it's called the Smithsonian
Institution because it's named after
James Smithson.
It's he said in his own will, very short sentence,

(01:42:57):
he wanted an institution built in Washington DC called the Smithsonian
Institution. I want my name in lights Yeah. In Washington DC. You can have all the money,
and it's for this purpose, for the increase and diffusion
of knowledge among men. That's it. That is the will. It's succinct
one sentence, basically.
And he

(01:43:18):
gave that money
that in order for America to receive it, believe it or not, they had to sue the United Kingdom. It took years to get the money. Congress got the money. It took year took ten years to decide what the to do with it, how to do it.
But the law of the Smithsonian Act of 1846
when it was established
clearly says that the Smithsonian Institution

(01:43:41):
is a trust. It is a simple
private
trust.
The federal government
is the trustee.
That's it. It has nothing to do with the federal government.
The average American today,
they are so misinformed about this. And what's so amazing is that Joseph Henry, who was the first

(01:44:02):
secretary of the Smithsonian Institution,
the remarkable
scientist, the the first American scientist, the great Joseph
Henry, Christian man, unafraid witness of his faith, thirty seven years dedicated to building the Smithsonian Institution. He gave his life to it from day one.
He wrote in the founding charter or the vision of the Smithsonian Institution

(01:44:25):
knowing that people would mistake the institution as being a national or federal or government institution. He wrote very clearly
in the points, the 12 points
of the original vision or charter of the Smithsonian
that this is a trust and that America, The United States,
meaning the government,

(01:44:46):
is merely
the trustee
of the trust. They're merely trusted. That's it. It is not a national institution.
That then was ratified by the board of regents
and in the in the Smithsonian documents. But he wrote it in there because
a rich since the beginning,

(01:45:07):
the government has always been trying
to overreach and make it its own. Mhmm. And this is this is the big problem with the Smithsonian Institution today and what's the issue in my case.
So when you when you take this and that money, for example, that's 515,000
US dollars in the in those days, it was it was 51 sacks

(01:45:29):
of gold coins, British gold sovereigns that were brought over. Wow. 51 bags of them.
Big it was amazing. They had the the records are such accurate records of the of this whole transaction, how they shipped it, who carried it, where they it was just amazing.
So you you have this great part of the the story, but the point is that the congress then takes the money,

(01:45:50):
they borrow it,
and they say the Smithsonian Institution will function
on the 6%
interest, which is a lot of money. Mhmm. And especially in those days that the Smithsonian Institution
was established and founded and built
with the interest,
not with the principal. The principal has disappeared.

(01:46:12):
Mhmm. Principle was never paid back.
And the Smithsonian Institution was never meant to function
with taxpayer appropriations.
It never said that it couldn't,
but it was never designed to have federal taxpayer
money. It was always designed to function its own
interest. It's a it's a trust. It's like if you leave money in a trust, the trust has a will and it functions

(01:46:35):
that and the trustees, they are responsible to administer the trust. So It makes a lot of sense, though. A little bit go ahead. No. So that in that what what I find amazing too is that,
again, you are a new you are a new American citizen,
and you have uncovered and learned more about something that

(01:46:56):
probably 99.999
of American citizens,
natural naturally born American citizens don't even think
is
or or think that the Smithsonian is an actual entity of the federal government, not even a private trust.
And
That's the problem. And I got if you go to my website, which is Smith I I James Smithson,

(01:47:20):
I grabbed the the website Smithson Institution.
There's the Smithsonian Institution, which is the big deal. I'm the little guy with the Smithson Institute trying to vindicate the will of James Smithson. Mhmm. That's on on on my web on the website. But if you go there, you will see
newspaper articles that I found. And these I found after my lawsuits, unfortunately.

(01:47:40):
But I have wonderful
stories from the nineteen twenties,
the the Washington
Sunday Star
newspaper.
That's front page stories about the Smithsonian, and one of them is
a story of these Midwestern folk who come to Washington to visit. And this is like the pilgrimage that everyone makes to DC. They everyone

(01:48:02):
I've never had it, so I can I had this sort of removed status where
a lot of people are brought up and ready? They go to Washington. They're taken to the Smithsonian. It's like a it's like a sacred pilgrimage. It becomes this sacred heart of Washington or the Smithsonian or and rightly so. It's a remarkable institution. There's no that's true. Yeah. Agreed. Yeah. But it but it but in this in this article from

(01:48:22):
1927,
it describes these people who walk onto the mall, and they're like, oh,
what grandiose buildings. You know, in the in the English of that day, which, oh, grandiose buildings and all this sort of flowery talk. It was
And yet the other guy writing, he says, yeah. He says, they all think it's the government. And the guy writing, he says, but they're shocked to find out basically

(01:48:45):
that this is a private institution,
a private charity funded by a private.
And right there is a is a is a article from 1927
showing this problem where the the entity status, the legal entity status was already confused, and people
thought
this is in DC because if you when you go to the mall and there's the Smithsonian, you know, you're the White House and Capitol and the Smithsonian's here and other bit they're all like, it's all part of the same thing. You think, oh, you know, the this I was there the other week. Had a press conference in front of the the the castles, the Castle.

(01:49:21):
And I just engaged with the public then, and I'm like, so let me ask you some trivia just to the average American. So who owns this piece of property? Oh, this is government property. I said, no. It is not. This is private property.
This is a private trust.
They cannot
believe their ears. I I'm like, they think I'm mad. I'm like and I had all my printouts from the,

(01:49:43):
the newspaper. I said, have a read. And they're like, you gotta be kidding. I said, nope. It's private.
This is the whole question that remains unanswered to this day
that
my petition that's even presently before the Supreme Court today as we speak,
I filed an emergency petition for rehearing because they rejected my case.

(01:50:06):
Justice John Roberts recused himself.
The other nine other eight justices were like, I don't know if we should answer this. To me, they betrayed their role because the constitution clearly says that the Supreme Court exists to basically
answer all questions or unanswered questions of federal law, controversies, anything that's unanswered
needs to be that the Supreme Court exists for that. So I go to them and I say,

(01:50:30):
I have been denied
my speech rights at the Smithsonian Institution
because of what this woman did. And this judge, judge McFadden,
he is a Trump appointed judge.
He botched it so badly because he said, oh, no. The Smithsonian Institution is the government through and through. It's the government. It's and it's so he he ruled that it's so much the government that it exercises

(01:50:55):
government speech
that trumps
first amendment protected free speeches of the of the citizen. And I'm like, you gotta be kidding me. Nope.
It's the government through and through. And I said, this is baloney.
I have studied this. I have read every I have documents from
chief I mean, from William Howard Taft,

(01:51:17):
president of The United States. Amazing man. I wrote it. There's there's a chapter in the book called Taft American Tafti
and American Taft
because what an amazing story. A guy from humble beginnings. He was not only the president.
He was the supreme court justice.
He was then chancellor of the Smithsonian. I have his words. The Smithsonian

(01:51:38):
has never been part of the federal government.
The federal government is merely a trustee.
End of that's black and white. Wow. War Warren Berger. I have a speech by Warren Berger written by the secretary assistant secretary of the Smithsonian Institution
that clearly says

(01:51:58):
Smithsonian Institution
is a private
institution. It is a private it's clear in black and white. It has nothing to do with the government,
except the government is the guardian.
That's it. Their job is to
appoint a board, and then it runs its course. That's it.
My case,
the judge says no. The Smithsonian

(01:52:21):
is the government through and through. And because it's the government, it exercises
government speech,
and you have no free speech rights. And I'm like, this is an outrage. Absolutely. So I go to the supreme yeah. I go to the Supreme Court, and I'm like, you guys need to answer this question because every American citizen needs to know what their rights are in this institution because right now, nobody knows.

(01:52:47):
They refused it then. I made a petition in another case that I filed against Kim Saet
2022.
She blocked me on Twitter. So it was a free speech case on Twitter. You wouldn't believe the ruling in that one as well. The defense of this research institution because of this
status quo bias is so strong in DC. It is the sacred heart. It is an enigma,

(01:53:08):
and and and they they defend it. The courts defend it. Everybody defends it. The media defend it. All the stories, I'm the bad guy suing the Smithsonian like I'm some terror. I mean, what did I do? I didn't do anything.
And then get this. This is where right now my case may have the greatest
hope.
It's just eight years on, and this is what happened in the last month.

(01:53:32):
The president
fired Kim Saeed
or attempted to fire Kim Saeed.
The Washington Post calls me up. Mister Rabin,
you're number four on the president's list of 17 reasons to fire Kim Saeed. I'm like, oh, nice. Wow. Hell, yeah. Number four, right on the desk of the president of the you know, number four. I'm actually the only first reason. They found all this other stuff afterwards.

(01:53:56):
Ed Martin,
who is a US attorney now, he's like Trump Trump's headhunter Yep. In the in the Department of Justice.
I was on his show, his radio show, two years ago with my book. He's got my book. They know there's so many people that know what she did. They've read it. They heard the story. He'd because Trump says, oh, lots of people have told me that she's highly partisan.

(01:54:17):
And I'm like, yeah. Federal
judge Trevor McFadden ruled she was odious
and partisan
in the way she treated me, but what she did was perfectly legal. And you're like, you guys live on another planet, and it's legal because it's government speech. It can be partisan and odious. And I said, you are mad. But, anyway, the great thing that happened this past month,

(01:54:40):
Joe, when president Trump poked
the bear, basically, he didn't have the authority to fire her. Everyone all the news articles,
only one in the Washington Post was honest and dealt with my story. The rest ignored me as always because
they they struggle with the implications if they side with the judge who says Kim Saet was partisan and odious and the president's right, we don't wanna make we don't want that story to get out. So we're just gonna say poor old Kim Saet's being

(01:55:09):
being mean the mean president is firing the poor old Kim Saet. Like, she's some victim. Yeah. Right. And it's like, you know, read read what the judge wrote. Read it. But the amazing thing is this. This is why I went to the this the Smithsonian just a few weeks ago.
The board of regents met,
and they came out. And that's the vice president Vance,

(01:55:30):
the Supreme Court chief justice,
the three mem they all met. Lonnie Bunch, the secretary,
and they all were like, basically, the president can't fire her. And he said, yep. This firing is our decision over here because we
are a in an independent
entity.
So here you have the board of regents and now the secretary

(01:55:52):
saying they're an independent agency, and you have a federal court judge saying no. No. No. It's the federal government through and through. Mhmm. You tell me if that's not a schizophrenic
legal condition. So I wrote my emergency
bill, and I said to the Supreme Court,
you have to answer this because now the president has highlighted this case, and you have to explain to the American people, is this federal?

(01:56:17):
Is this a trust, a private trust? And where do we have our constitutional
rights protected in this institution? They are under obligation. Let's see what they do, Joe. Right. So where where's where's our recourse in this whole thing?
It's a monster. It's if you look at my book, Odius and Cerberus,
I didn't come up with the title. These are the judge's words. He called her Odius,

(01:56:40):
and he said the Smithsonian is like Cerberus, the three headed hellhound
that guards the gates of hell. So I have it here guarding the door to the Smithsonian
as they go up with three chains to to grab its heads and lock it up there, the three branches of government. Because this is this is this is how stupid the judge is, and I I don't even like to say that about somebody in that position, but he deserves it.

(01:57:01):
If the three branches of the federal government, the executive,
the judicial,
and the legislative sit down at a table together
with nine members of the public
and they make a decision in union in this quorum, they call it, in the Smithsonian.
You know, if they say that's the government through and through speaking, it's like, did you never hear of the doctrine of the separation of powers?

(01:57:25):
Did you never hear this? Are you saying that the executive branch can meet with the judicial and the legislative, and they can all make a decision together and speak as one unified voice of the federal it's baloney. Absolute. Absolutely. Absolutely. It's baloney.
And so this is my
journey, Joe. This is this conundrum that I'm in.

(01:57:45):
And now three petitions, there's one presently there with them, and maybe they kicked me to the curb again. I do not know. But maybe because the president's
highlighted the
issue and the Smithsonian has publicly stated,
we are an independent entity,
and the judge has said, no. It's the government through and through.
That's a problem right there. Yeah.

(01:58:07):
And, you know, and one of the things that I I I appreciate is the fact that,
again, just to go back to what we said earlier, you are a new citizen to United States.
You weren't born here. You you you you immigrated here
legally, by the way.
Legally. So it is possible. I'm I'm gonna get on my little soapbox for a second.

(01:58:29):
So for people listening, it is
a case in point right in front of you right now that someone can come to this country legally,
go through the process,
and become an American citizen. Alright? So you don't need to come here illegally, break laws to get into the country. Alright? Off the soapbox.

(01:58:51):
I'm trying to think how I wanna phrase the question.
The the the fact that that you are a new citizen to the country,
You have this patriotism about you
that I wanna say, unfortunately, about maybe 90% of the country
of natural born citizens do not have,

(01:59:14):
And I appreciate that, and I and I thank you for it. And, you know, I love my country. You know, I I
I I live here in Texas. I am a I'm a proponent of Texas secession.
I would love to see Texas once again stand as a free and independent country as it once did.
That's what the Texas independence flag is all about. Mhmm. I'm part of an organization that advocates that. It's part of a,

(01:59:39):
not a not a violent,
you know, taking up arms, you know, getting on the horse, loading the musket balls, and going into charging into battle. I'm talking to the legislative process, putting it to the people to the vote
on whether or not they want Texas to leave the union.
Interesting point though, by the way. 60%
of those polled in Texas are in favor of it.

(02:00:00):
So if it ever went to a ballot measure, it would probably pass
overwhelmingly. Yeah. You'd have you'd have Upstate New York or moving down there. Yeah. Probably. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And a lot, you know, a lot of people don't realize that that that New York City and New York State are two different worlds altogether.
Oh, yeah. You know? New York City is New York City. Everybody knows who New York City is, but New York State first of all, New York State is beautiful.

(02:00:23):
It is probably the most beautiful country you'll you'll you'll you'll come across in The United States. Green.
You know? You have dairy farms, apple orchards. You have natural woodland areas. You have
just absolutely beautiful breathtaking scenery. I mean, it is
beautiful.
But
upstate New Yorkers think different, act different, vote different, speak different,

(02:00:46):
and are generally more conservative
than downstate.
The problem is the the the the concentration of population.
Downstate has
upwards of 8,000,000 people.
Oh, yeah.
The majority of which are not even native New Yorkers.
They come here with these extreme liberal views, and they they they basically control the state.

(02:01:12):
So, yeah, to to your point, Upstate New York would probably say, yeah, we're part of Texas now. You know? For sure. Absolutely.
But,
but to see but to see the patriotism that comes out of you, you know, and your love for this country that comes out of you as someone who is legally,
emphasis,
legally immigrated here and gone through the

(02:01:32):
entire process of becoming a citizen
is so inspiring
to me,
you know, and it it is it and it just is is such a an amazing thing to watch and to see and to hear. And someone who is
basically new to this country able to

(02:01:53):
take the steps to educate themselves and take on
this monstrosity
of a government
that is here.
Shame on Americans who have been here their entire lives and born here who don't know half
of what you just
sent across the interweb

(02:02:15):
in just what, forty five minutes?
Thank you.
God bless you for that. Praise praise very good. Thank you. And praise God because it's
it's an honor for me.
And I told you, I'm the type of person that takes things apart and wants to know how they work. So it was just now I'm wired. But what what it is really and the immigration's

(02:02:37):
story, it's an I have a I have a very interesting immigration story. Alright. Just hold that thought for one second. Just hold that thought for one second. So we're coming up on the we're we're over two hours at this point.
Are you okay with continuing on for a little bit? Because we can go another thirty minutes if you like. It's up to you. Okay. Great. Continue with your immigration story.
Sure. Well, I and before I get to that, let me just say this. The

(02:02:59):
what it is for me,
you know, my to me, it was like a romance. You know? You you
you know, you're innocent in the sense that you're, like, reading all this stuff for the first time, and you you had this prejudice coming here.
And then you've heard, wow. Oh, wow. This is what it is. It's amazing.
So you there is this emotional,
like, aroma, like, a love. And and the the the becoming a citizen

(02:03:23):
is is like a marriage. So you go and swear these oath. Like, your vows are like a wedding vow. Mhmm. You're you're you're committing yourself to something. You're you're adhering
something. You're rejecting where you came from, and you're saying this is this is who I am now. These are the laws that I I mean, I take those things seriously. I take them very seriously. I'm bound by what I say. And so when I'm when I I made I take that oath. I'm like, you know, the now this is what's such a hard thing for me because my mind is always, like I said, you take things apart and you're trying to make sense of how things work. And so here you are. You one you you the laws in this great country and the

(02:04:03):
you swear allegiance to this, and then you go into the situation where they just are like they're like playing hockey with it. Mhmm. And you're like, woah. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. This doesn't this doesn't fit. And that's my that's what drives me because my
my mindset is I have to then try to make it work.
I have to make sense of it so that I can say, yeah. You know? Like, one day vindication, one day I pray and maybe in my life to maybe not, maybe my children, but that the supreme court said, mister Rabin, you were right all along.

(02:04:32):
And, you know, we're really sorry.
And, you know, that that would be a huge huge day for me. Absolutely.
So, you know, the to me, the
that that aspect of marriage this is what I've experienced is like
a betrayal
of your spouse. What I've experienced is like

(02:04:52):
you're devastated by your like, man, here I am trying to just do my little bit. I'm just a little guy doing and then you get this.
The same people have sworn the same oath. And, you know, when you talk about the American citizen,
the difference for the immigrant obviously, you and law enforcement, so you swore.
You swore. That's right. We I had to swear.

(02:05:13):
And this is the immigrant swears the oath. Same oath, virtually the same as what the president swears. That's right. Swear this oath. It's like this is how grave it is, how serious it is.
And yet the American,
maybe they should put it in schools that everybody you know what? Before you come out,
you're gonna go through this process, and you too are gonna pledge. You're gonna pledge. You're gonna pledge and understand what it means that this law is what you are living for.

(02:05:40):
Because if you don't know it,
then these people in the dark are gonna twist it and betray it. And that's what's basically happened with the Smithsonian.
The darkness and the confusion, the corruption happens because of the these the stories of corruption over there are mind blowing. Because, again, when you do what I did, you end up finding all the stuff in oh my goodness. So there's a story in there where my painting was shown in Washington, DC with this

(02:06:04):
journalist. His name is Charles Krauss. He was Trump full on Trump, full leftist
hater, having an art show, but he wanted my painting there because he's like, I read that they said it was too political. He he was, like, mad that they said it was too political. He had the the the decency to say that. But, yeah, it was a great art show. It was, like, full on

(02:06:24):
the full on two spectrums of the art world. It was great.
At the and it was, I guess, where it was. It was it was a 100 yards from the National Portrait Academy. It was great. It was like this it was so I couldn't I couldn't tell you how wonderful it was. But people like that where you see this sort of,
you know,
vehement, you know, antiness. But at the same time, he was honest and said, yeah. But that too political stuff is was rubbish.

(02:06:50):
No one can tell you no one can give you that viewpoint
discrimination. That's just totally outrageous.
So, you know, that that part of the story, it's all in the book. They're great, great chapter. That is a huge chapter how that unfa unfolded is is an amazing part of the story. But returning to the immigration story,
you know, again, going back to how I hate to interrupt you again before you get to the immigration story, but

(02:07:17):
as as someone who who,
again, legally
immigrated
to The United States, became a citizen,
From the so I I wanna say from the outside looking in,
why do you think there is so much
animosity,
so much vitriol
spewed against
Donald Trump

(02:07:38):
and the things that he represents
that we see right now going on?
Well, actually, from
when he first ran.
It's a it's a mixed bag.
He is a
he is a mixed bag in that sense because,
honestly, he brings a lot of it on himself. Mhmm. You gotta be honest.

(02:08:01):
But
the other side, which obviously is what I responded to, was that
he really said
the things that no one
no no one dared say
that needed to be said, and he poked
all of those beasts, you know, the immigration
issue, that whole and that's a big deal for me, and I'll share it with you in a second. So

(02:08:23):
that whole aspect of the
you're dealing with somebody who is
and my painting's called unafraid and unashamed.
He has a mindset that he just he has totally not phased.
That is so unique because
most people
are always
they're always
couching what they say

(02:08:44):
with what someone is gonna say or think and politicians, the money, or they're like this. He didn't. He just come out like a like a like a bull in a china shop. Just and that's what what changed everything because you're, like, lost. Somebody
is saying what needs to be said.
And that to the people that live in that
ivory tower of very careful, very cautious, and very you know? And sometimes, obviously, we need to be and need to be, you know,

(02:09:11):
circumspect in how you approach things. You need to be guarded in what you say. You don't always just blurting stuff out. You need to have. But then there's this time and there has to when we our country is at a time of of of serious national,
you know,
crisis economic this this America's in a lot of trouble. You can't deny it. So someone like this comes along and says, we're gonna take care of the business, and he's doing it.

(02:09:36):
I think that all the people that have sat there, like, afraid and, you know, subtly, like, twisting the system, like, with my case, you know, I'm just the little guy that has this one encounter with this very corrupt person. I mean, that's just one it's like a litmus test of the whole
you know, I I said, you know, I don't get into, like, the deep state. You know, there's a lot of people. There's there's a lot of things you could yeah. Yeah. It could be. But you know what? She could be the poster child for the deep state. I mean, that's exactly the type of person. She's in a position of power, and she's using it to to to enforce her little political ideology. And you know this about Kim Saerat? And she resigned,

(02:10:11):
and I wrote about it in my book. I didn't write say she resigned, but I wrote that she would move on. And I did this is a she resigned two weeks ago, Joe. Mhmm. She resigned. It's an amazing story.
And the the, you know, the the blessing for me to actually be able to see that, and say, man, this woman is gone from there.
That is huge.

(02:10:32):
But guess what? In 01/21/2017,
part of exposing her, she was the day after the president was inaugurated the first time, she was marching
in the anti Trump protest in Washington DC That's right. Tweeting You're right. Tweeting selfies
to her Smithson. It's just it's just just these peep this is the type of thing where these people, they think they're untouchable,

(02:10:58):
then someone like him comes along and say, well, you know what?
You ain't. And thank god, he pointed the finger because even though he didn't have the legal authority to fire her, he had the
the people's authority as an elected
the most elected representative in The United States to say, you, a partisan,
you've lost favor with this you know, that was enough. And so they compelled her to resign, which is huge. Wonderful. Absolutely. So and it's it's a it's a new day,

(02:11:26):
and I encourage you and your readers to read those Washington,
Post articles that are out there about it. It's very good journalism on the part of,
Maura Judkus, her name is. So but going back to the immigration story,
before I came to America, the people that I knew in Spain, British people, they would come to America a year or two years, and

(02:11:48):
they'd come here and they say, oh, yeah. I mean, you know, they'd they were always just taking advantage. People were like scoundrels. They were like, we stayed there, we ripped off the system, and Americans are stupid.
And this is the mindset that people have. And so
I I was exposed to this and this this type of idea and that they just you know? When I came to America, I wasn't coming to stay. I was gonna preach the gospel in Mexico.

(02:12:12):
I was just bypassing. I wanted to stay six months in,
California, make some money, take up a thousand dollars, go to Mexico, buy a donkey and cart, fill it with New Testament, and preach the gospel. That's what I wanted to do. Mhmm. And I came to The United States on a three month tourist visa.
So I came for three months, and I legally was only allowed to be in The United States two two months. This is 1998.

(02:12:36):
Well, as the time was running out and things were not working out for me in in in California to go south,
I'm looking for extensions, leave wanting to leave the country, to come back in, get the stamp on your passport.
The whole dynamic. Oh, the time's running out. Time's running out. Going to immigration lawyers. The first thing they offered me in California was, we can arrange a marriage for you.

(02:12:59):
We can get you a bride.
It's $10,000,
and you're gonna live with her. And after six months,
you divorce her, and voila. You've got yourself a green card. How about it? Good grief. Grand. And I'm like, yeah. I'm like I'm like, you must be kidding me. I said, first of all, I wouldn't do that. And secondly, I don't have $10,000.

(02:13:20):
You know? It's Right. It's outrageous. So I ran out of status in The United States.
And the as I wanted to go south to Mexico,
I fell in love with America. I didn't wanna stay at first. I wasn't coming to stay. It was bypassing it. Mhmm. But I fell in love with America.
And one month and two months, and I started trying, how can I rectify my situation? And I couldn't rectify my situation. And this went on for a year and eight months. I was I outstayed my visa. I was illegally in The United States. And as a Christian, someone in ministry, I'm now back in New York. I was at seminary.

(02:13:58):
I was studying. They knew. I went there. I said, this is who I am. I was part of a church. They were trying to get me the religious working green, green card. They said, yeah. We can help you get this. We can help you get that, but you need to go back to college and get this degree. And I didn't so it was all this trying to work. Then I fell in love, and I was like, my beautiful bride, and then her family wanted to kick me out of the country. We're calling the INET. I told the father right away. I said, listen. This is who I am. I love your daughter. This is my status. And he's like, well, you're marrying my daughter to get a green card, aren't you? And I'm like, no. I love your daughter. You're married. And they they're calling INS. They're trying to get me kicked out of the country. It was it was drama. This is so much drama.

(02:14:34):
But, eventually,
I was so convicted.
And I had friends of mine as Christians saying in Romans 13, you know, it's like, be subject to Caesar. What are you doing? How can you have a good testimony? I said, I know. I know. I try to work it out. I love it here. I don't wanna leave. I got nowhere to go going back to Marbella. It's like, like, where I grew up, but I wanna be here.
It was really difficult. And it came to this point one day

(02:14:56):
where
with my pastor
and my fiancee,
we went to 26 Federal Plaza, which you probably know the building Very well. Down Downtown Manhattan.
I went to 26 Federal Plaza. I went to some floor way, way up top,
and I walked into the immigration, the INS. It was at that time. It's changed, the INS department.

(02:15:17):
And I walked in like this, with my hands like this.
And I said
I said, I overstayed my visa. I'm so sorry. Like this. And you know what they did? They laughed.
They laughed. They're like, this has never happened before. And I said, yeah. But here I am. And it's like this, you know, just
whatever. And

(02:15:38):
and they're like
Man, I would have loved to have seen that.
They're like, we're not gonna do anything. Just leave the country.
And I got a ticket, and I self deported, and I left. It was one of the hardest things I ever had to do because I was head over heels in love. And people are saying, oh, you should elope. You could go to Vegas and marry Gloria, and you could get your green card that way. And I said, yeah. But that what's that gonna look like? Then they're gonna say, you just married her for your green card. Right. And you just and I said and and it will be so easy. It'll be so easy to do that. And I said, but the right thing to do, I overstayed my welcome, and I am sorry,

(02:16:17):
is to say, I'm gonna go home. I'm gonna leave. And then by the grace of God, get my paperwork straightened out and do and I left, Joe. And it was the hardest
was brutal. We were at the peak of our love, and we were crying like babies.
We were on the phone all day. We it was just ridiculous. It was so difficult, but it was the right thing to do.

(02:16:40):
And after six months, by the grace of God, I came back to The United States with my paperwork intact. I could have even come on what was called a fiance visa to come and get married, but I didn't even need that. I arrived. And then and then immigration, they're like, so and this was the amazing thing when I left, Joe. When I left and they said immigration, when I handed myself in, they said they can stamp your passport. They just passed a law with a five year no return because you outstayed your visa. Oh, wow. And I was like I was like dying. I was die. We're in the airport. We're dying. You're gonna start my passport.

(02:17:13):
I'm not gonna see you for five years. It was, like, so true. It was so dramatic, but we was it was unreal.
And I get to the guy, and he takes my passport. He looks at me like this.
He opens it. He looks down. He flips through the pages like this. He's seeing all my stamps.
He looks at me again. He closes it, and he hands it back to me. And I was like, inside, I'm doing cartwheels. Like, oh, praise god. He didn't even stamp it. But I left, and six months later, I came back. I arrived at JFK, and they're like, so mister Raven, what's your purpose in coming to America? I said, I'm coming to get married.

(02:17:47):
And the guy the thing was taken aback. He turns to his boss. He says, can he do that? And they was like, yeah. Of course, he can. There's no problem. I was like, home free. There you go. So Ken got married,
and that's my story now. Because if not, it would have been, yeah, you just married in Vegas. It was all, like, shady. You know what I'm saying? So you're trying to trying to evade the thing. So that's my story. And I wrote

(02:18:11):
Tom Homan at the beginning. In my book, it's in there. There is a bill, the outline of a bill of a a a self deportation incentive an incentivized
self deportation bill
that was to promote
people leaving voluntarily with the hope of coming back. I wrote the whole thing sent to the beginning of the year. They came out with the self deportation app

(02:18:34):
that they're trying to get people to sign up for. And I said, yeah. You're right. You get them to all the good people will sign up. They'll go home for six months. They they give you their fingerprints. They show who they are. You get to find out who the good guys are. They leave. They do like penance. They leave the country. They show their good faith. And then when they come back, you give them a work visa.
Five years, you give them a green card. Fifteen years or ten years, you give them citizenship. It's fair deal. And guess what? If they self deport if they self deport and they pay their way and the tax, I had it all worked out. It was an amazing saving for the government to do this because most people would leave if you gave them a reason to came back, the good guys. Let them come back. Give them give them work give them a work permit when they come back. Mhmm. What's wrong with that?

(02:19:17):
That's my that's my learning curve as as what happened to me. So
they came out with the self deportation app, and I was like, I read through it. And I was like, yeah. They read my they read my bill. There you go. The staff told those idea. They did. They read it. They didn't put my name anywhere, but they read my bill. And you see sent it all over, you know. And that and that's and that's what I was trying to say earlier too is that you look. You you've been you've been an American citizen for how long now?

(02:19:41):
Since 02/2015.
Okay. So ten years. Alright. So ten years.
You have probably done more in ten years
in political activism, if I could use that term,
than
most natural born American citizens ever take part of in their entire life.
And that is just that to me that's amazing. That's a beautiful beautiful story, and I love your story, and I think it's a great story, and I love the fact that you attribute

(02:20:09):
your faith
in a lot of this. You know, it was God
that
rewarded your honesty
in going back home and then coming back the the way you're supposed to,
and for acknowledging the fact that, you know, yeah. Okay. I overstayed my welcome. I I overstayed my visa.

(02:20:31):
I was wrong.
You're right. I'm wrong. Forgive me. I'm gonna go do what I gotta do. And That's right. And God rewarded that for you. And that to me, that that's a bigger part of the story
that needs to be told more.
And, I'd unfortunately, I don't have your book yet. I'm gonna get it. But I don't know if you get more into your faith

(02:20:54):
as you, have you Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. You know? So, I mean, to me, that that's amazing story. Now,
you know, I'm a Christian myself. I'm a born again Christian. I got saved in February.
I'm looking forward to my 20 birthday. You know? That's true. Yep. I can I can attribute a lot of
the successes that I've had in my life to to the blessings of God? I consider I could also look at a lot of the failures in my life as blessings from God because I wouldn't have learned to go the right way.

(02:21:22):
And, so to hear you talk about your faith is is so refreshing,
and,
it and I I appreciate that. I really do. And I and I thank you for it, brother, and I and God bless you. I mean, I I think you have an amazing story,
and I am I am looking forward to getting your book and to be able to actually dive into it and read it. And I am so glad that we were able to connect. I mean, I I have, like, I have 15 or 16 more questions here that I had outlined for you, but, you know, you covered most of it, you know, without me having to ask them. So I'm gonna ask you I'm gonna ask you just three questions.

(02:21:54):
Alright?
Three questions.
In closing, who is someone that you deeply respect right now,
and
and what are they doing that we should be paying attention to? That's one question.
In in what field? Any field.
Someone that you
deeply respect right now.

(02:22:16):
My wife. Oh, praise the Lord. Say talk about that.
Let's hear that. She is she is a woman of God and great character
and integrity and a mentor to me. I've learned so much from her and her faith. Oh, praise the Lord. Courage courageous faith.
And so, you know, outside of her, I mean, there's a lot of great people out there, but I know this woman and

(02:22:38):
it's it's that is without a doubt, immediately, it's the first person that comes to mind. God, that is so refreshing to hear that that
oh, brother, thank you for that. I appreciate that.
Okay. Second question. If you could speak one sentence into the minds of everybody that's listening right now and and know that it would stick, what would it be?

(02:22:59):
America
is one of the few places on Earth where
we have
the freedom
and the opportunity
to
do
the things that we want to do.
And when it comes to being part of fixing
our country, we
can do it. And because we can do it,

(02:23:21):
we must do it.
Wow.
First of all, our country.
I love it.
Thank you.
And you're absolutely right. It's it's within it's within ourselves to to to address the problems that this country has. No country is perfect.
No government is perfect.

(02:23:42):
But thank God, and actually,
coming
up starting this coming Sunday
see, I don't know if you know, but, on Sundays, I do a Bible study show.
And,
the last couple of shows I've been talking about politics in the Bible.
The the two Sundays ago, it was,

(02:24:04):
it was exactly about politics in the Bible. This past Sunday, I talked about the Christians bill of rights, where they are, how many of them are there,
and, there are there are nine of them. So if you wanna find out where they are, you can gotta go listen to the show.
And then, this coming Sunday, I am starting a series on America's Christian heritage,

(02:24:26):
and that's gonna be
if I've outlined it correctly, it's probably gonna probably gonna be about
ten weeks
of study. I think so. So, it might be more. I don't know. We'll see. But as of right now, I have about ten weeks worth of of material that I've I'm I'm developing.
Now did I go to Bible college? Yes. I went to Bible college for a couple of semesters and realized that, you know what? I didn't need to go to Bible college because I sat under some really

(02:24:53):
incredible pastors and teachers
that have taught me everything that I'm that I'm being taught again in Bible college.
So Sure. Didn't seem like it was a good fit for me. So,
you know, I've served as an associate pastor of a small independent Baptist church, up in New York City for for about a year,
at the request of the senior pastor who was going through some,

(02:25:16):
very serious health concerns and,
you know, praise the Lord. He's he's with the Lord right now. But,
you know, it was a pleasure and a privilege to be able to serve the Lord in that way. You know, I've taught I've taught bible. I've taught I've I've street preached. I've, you know, I've,
you know, I I've done so many things, and
I don't feel like I've done nearly enough.

(02:25:38):
And,
you know, so,
I wanted to bring that aspect into the show, and, that's why that's why we're doing it on on you know, so Sunday Sunday afternoons at 6PM central time, you can check out the show, and we'll be talking about America's Christian heritage.
And, it it because you really can't
you you can't extricate

(02:25:59):
the bible out of politics because the one thing that I've learned, and this is this is something I've highlighted in a couple of other shows,
the one thing I've learned in in in the twenty plus years that I've been studying
my Bible
is that the Bible is probably the single greatest textbook
on politics you will ever read, because basically, the whole thing about the Bible is

(02:26:22):
who is going to rule who. Sure. You know? It is it is an incredible study
of of of of politics.
It's an incredible science textbook. If you sit there and really study it and read it,
the Bible is
the book
that God gave us. It's his inspired, preserved word for us today in the English language,

(02:26:47):
and
the answers to every question of life is in that book. There's the questions I know. The question to immigration is in that book. The question and the answers to medical science is in that book.
Astronomy is in that book.
Politics is in that book. Everything's in that book. Now can I tell you that I know where they all are? The answers are? No. I I, I I can't tell you that,

(02:27:11):
but
I can read it.
You could read it. You could find it for yourself. I'm preaching. I'm sorry.
So,
I'm listening. So,
and and the one thing and one thing that I have learned in in reading my bible and sitting under the under the teachers and the and the pastors that I've I've sat under is that if there's one thing that man doesn't learn from history is that man doesn't learn from history. And we are going to go back, and we're gonna study these things. We're gonna we're gonna repeat all of these mistakes.

(02:27:41):
You know, God gave us the book in order for us to understand that you don't have to make this mistake.
Here it is right here.
Do this and that won't happen.
Mhmm. You know, what did God say? God God said that, you know, if you continue to disobey me,
eventually the foreigners are gonna take over your land,

(02:28:01):
and you're gonna be subservient to to the foreigners.
Look at what's happening in this country now. I mean, thank God for Donald Trump. Thank God that, you know, he's kinda slowed down the whole the whole illegal immigration process and problem, I should say. Thank God for that, because who knows what would have happened if we had a Kamala Harris or or or

(02:28:22):
or or or another four years of the auto pen presidency. Who knows?
I don't know.
Nobody knows. Thank God nobody knows, because I don't wanna know. I don't wanna know.
But,
you know, if there's one thing that man doesn't learn from history is that man doesn't learn from history.
And Solomon said it too. Solomon said, you know, there's nothing new under the sun. If you thought about it, somebody thought about it before you. You know, it's just it's just it it it it's cyclical. It goes in it's it's just in a cycle.

(02:28:52):
And,
you know,
that's why I wanna I I'm
trying to bring out America's Christian heritage
because we need to get back to the book.
We need to get back to the Bible. One of the points that I was making, and I was I was called in on on I I posted a clip of it on on on TikTok or something. I was called an idiot, a moron. I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm also talking about how taxation

(02:29:16):
and property taxes especially are are immoral.
You know? You work for thirty plus years.
You sit you you pay off your house,
and all of a sudden, now you you still can lose your property
if you don't pay that tax bill.
Well,
that's immoral.
That's that's usury. That that's that's

(02:29:38):
that's not the way this is supposed like that old commercial, you know. This is not how it's supposed to work. This is not how any of this is supposed to work. That's what it is. And, you know, I was I was a Mormon. In an in an ideal world for us to say, no. They're gonna you're gonna get taxed no matter what. No matter what you do. You know? You tax the air. They tax they tax the fact that you're breathing. Listen. If you go if you go into politics, if you it's not you know, if you the only way that they can do what they do is by getting money from the people. They can't they have nothing. Right. It's just impossible. And that's a point. Function without it. They have nothing. And that's a point that I try to make all the time also. It you know, it's not government money. That's your money.

(02:30:12):
You're lending your money to the government.
You know? So when you when you get that refund
at the end of the year, the the the government's just giving you back what you with, you know, the extra that you gave them that they well, we don't need it today.
You know, it that's all it is. So taxation is theft. Taxation is immoral.
The greatest example of a republic that was ever given is the nation of Israel in in the Old Testament.

(02:30:38):
And and study Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, you'll see exactly what I'm talking about. Read those books.
You know, I'm not gonna say the the the most interesting reads for the most part,
you know, but they're important reads. You gotta read these things, and again, because we're doomed to repeat history.

(02:30:58):
If you disobey,
the further let me put it this way. The further you get from God's word,
the more the judgment of God is gonna come down upon us.
And it's not because he's an angry, unmerciful, unloving, uncaring God, and you know, who's gonna spank you and tell you, well, you know, you you're not doing what I tell you to soap. So

(02:31:22):
that's not what it's all about. It's to it's to it's to make
you
as an individual
a better person,
spiritual person,
and it's also to magnify the glory and the righteousness and the holiness
of our God. Amen. And so
preaching, I don't know why I'm on this subject right now, but praise the Lord for it. Alright. Well, brother It's all good with me. That's, that's that's all that that bothers that's all that matters to me at the end of day. Amen. Amen to that. So, well, hopefully, you'll tune in and check out the Sunday show. I'd love I'd love to have you as as a as a viewer of that and get your thoughts and opinions on it. But, Julian, we're gonna we're gonna say goodnight. I gotta go feed my dogs. They're they're scratching at the base of the door here for the studio. I

(02:32:10):
hear them. And, again, thank you so much for your story. It's it's really inspirational to me at least, and I and I hope to to the folks that have been listening. I know we don't have huge numbers. Our tens of listeners right now or or or viewers, I should say. My the audio numbers are much better than the viewing, but,
but, you know, I I I appreciate everybody that's been watching. Thank you so much. Julian,

(02:32:31):
where can our audience go to find out more information about you, your book, your work, anything you wanna let us know?
Www.smithson,
like Smith's son.
Smithsoninstitution.com.
And my art page is julianraven.com.
That's my paintings that are non political landscapes and pretty flowers. Nice. So, it's a whole different deal. But, yeah, smithsoninstitution.com.

(02:32:56):
Alright. Great. And we'll make sure that we have all that information contained in the show notes.
Like I said, earlier on, you know, our our host platform on the audio on the audio side is podhome.fm.
It's a great service. They give us the ability to include,
active links
plus headshots and everything like that in our show notes, and we're gonna make sure all that is there and is contained. And, of course, we're also gonna have all the information available in the video, show notes. And, so, Julian, thank you so much for your time tonight. I would love to have you come on again, so let's talk about that,

(02:33:28):
in the days to come. And, God bless you, brother. Thank you so much for your story. It's a really, really amazing story.
Thank you, Joe. It's a pleasure. I've been it's been great to be on with you. Thank you so much, sir. You have a great night. Alright, folks. With that, we're gonna start to wrap this up. I do wanna say one thing though, folks.
If anybody has tuned in to the episode we did on Monday,

(02:33:50):
with,
Svetlana,
we unfortunately,
that episode
on YouTube has been taken down for
misinformation.
Alright? We the show received another strike,
and, so therefore,
this show tonight,

(02:34:10):
will be the last show that we stream on YouTube.
And,
because I think it's ridiculous that we were expressing an opinion
on a specific treatment
for a medical condition.
We were not advocating that it is a better treatment. We're not we were not saying that it was a treatment that was,

(02:34:32):
that that that other treatments weren't effective. We were expressing an opinion
on a treatment.
And because we expressed an opinion
on a treatment,
YouTube, in their wisdom,
the and I use that sarcastically,
has determined that we are spreaders of misinformation.

(02:34:53):
So,
that's why I tell everybody,
get off of YouTube.
Get off of it.
You want a free speech platform.
You wanna be able to say exactly what it is that you believe.

(02:35:13):
You wanna express your opinions
without fear of of having your channel shut down, demonetized,
you name it.
Get off YouTube.
Come to rumble.rumble.com/joeroos.
You can follow this show. Like, subscribe, and share it with all your friends, your family, and your followers.

(02:35:36):
You can go to the App Store on your phone. You can download the app.
It is free.
It is free to sign up to watch shows.
There are some shows that have paywalls.
You can subscribe to a Rumble Premium subscription.
Rumble premium right now is running a deal, $10 off an annual plan.

(02:35:57):
I have a I I have a Rumble premium subscription. I love it. It's great.
You don't get the mid rolls. You don't get the ads. You don't get any of that in those interruptions.
You get access to, to to, portions of rumble premium shows that are behind the paywall,
and you don't have to worry about being censored.
You don't have to worry about being shut off. You don't have to worry about having your shows taken down.

(02:36:22):
You know, you put a lot of effort into putting these shows together.
You put a lot of effort into,
you know, of of of building an audience only for some
freaking moron
over in YouTube
to say that, well, you know, like when you said, you can't express your opinions against our community guidelines.

(02:36:46):
Get off YouTube.
Get off.
Stop wasting your time and money.
Go to a fully free speech platform.
Go to rumble.rumble.com.
Check it out for yourself. Don't take my word for it.

(02:37:07):
Check it out for yourself.
But going forward,
after this show tonight,
this is the last show you will see on Rumble from us.
If you wanna see this show in its entirety,
rumble.rumble.com/joeroos.

(02:37:29):
Like, subscribe, and share with your friends, your family, and your followers.
Alright. Now, we're gonna say goodnight, and, we're gonna head on to,
feed the babies. They're waiting by the door. Alright. So, folks, thank you again so much,
for joining us tonight. I hope you enjoyed our guests, Doug Pfeiffer in the first hour, Julian Raven in the second hour. Both incredible stories, incredible guests.

(02:37:57):
Really looking forward to reconnecting with these guys at a later time, and getting into more detailed conversation about their stories. I mean, the this this
and what I said to Julian tonight was was absolutely 100%
from the heart.
I appreciate his patriotism. I appreciate his love for the country
and for the institutions that that are contained in it. And, I am really, really looking forward to getting his book and to,

(02:38:23):
really understand more and more
his story. So
all that said, folks, thank you again so much for being with us.
Don't forget to head over to our website, joe roos dot com.
Joeroos.com.
Send us over any questions, comments, cares, or concerns. Also, don't forget, hit that donation button. Help us out. Support the show. Help keep this whole thing going, especially if you wanna see great guests like we just had. Alright, folks. Make Texas independent again.

(02:38:52):
Go podcasting.
Keep a steady stride,
and we'll see you tomorrow night, 7PM central time.
Good night,
and
goodbye.

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