What If Every Argument Was a Chance to Get Closer?

What happens when an engineer and a nurse discover their true calling as marriage coaches?

Meet Aaron and Jocelyn Freeman, the couple behind a relationship coaching movement that’s helped thousands of partners shift from surviving to thriving.

From almost breaking up after a gym date to building a coaching brand with nearly a million followers, their story is full of real-life lessons. They share how their own clashing conflict styles became the foundation for practical tools that couples can actually use, tools that go far beyond traditional therapy sessions.

Their message is simple but powerful: you don’t have to end your marriage, just the version of it that isn’t working. With honesty, humor, and wisdom, the Freemans remind us that relationships evolve and that reinvention is part of the journey.

Whether you’re dating, married, or somewhere in between, this episode will change how you think about love, conflict, and commitment.

Hit play now and subscribe for more conversations that help you build the relationships you really want.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Okay, so welcome to our podcast.
This is a little bit differenttoday, because this podcast is a
spinoff of our radio show.
Okay, so I don't really do anintro, but meet the Freemans.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
Hey.

Speaker 1 (00:26):
Thank you, welcome to our podcast.
My friend Walter, co-hostingWalter, you guys, yes, so you
guys have all known each otherfor a long time.
I feel so left out.

Speaker 3 (00:33):
We've known each other for a really long time,
really long time.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
Nine years yeah.

Speaker 3 (00:38):
Yeah, that, jerry, jerry Roberts.

Speaker 2 (00:41):
Writing a book yeah, barry Roberts, writing a book.
It was early in ourentrepreneur journey so we were
learning like marketingstrategies, and writing a book
was one of them that we learnedabout and we met him and I mean
we've seen each other evolve somuch.
He, I mean, we were brand newand so you've.
You've believed us.
You've always been acheerleader for us.

Speaker 1 (00:58):
So how many books have you guys written?

Speaker 2 (01:00):
Well, one was like a self-published style, so like a
mini book.
Then our first official bookwhere it was done through a
publisher was called theArgument Hangover, or is called
the Argument Hangover.
We just got a book deal withPenguin Random House.

Speaker 1 (01:13):
Oh, wow, and so that will be coming out next.
Yeah, we haven't announced thetitle, thank you.
So you guys are marriagetherapists, couples therapists.

Speaker 2 (01:20):
Marriage coaches.

Speaker 1 (01:20):
Marriage coaches.
So what's the differencebetween a therapist and a coach
and that whole deal?

Speaker 2 (01:26):
Well, first off, coaches can say a lot more than
therapists.
Therapists have a lot of rules.
They can get in trouble, rightwith certain things, whereas as
coaches we can say anything wewant to someone.
So there's a lot more freedom.
But it's also just the focusright.
A lot of couples will come tous after trying therapy and

(01:49):
there are some great therapists,by the way.
We're not at all trying todiscredit that but they'll say
we sat on the couch and wevented and ended up arguing
right, we just walked outarguing, we didn't get tools, we
didn't get skills.
So, coaches, if you think aboutathletics too right, they're
going to challenge you, they'regoing to tell you what you need
to practice, what you need to dodifferently.
So we really equip couples withtools, skills, so people find
it really effective.

Speaker 1 (02:09):
We enjoy it how long?
Like what's your credibility?
What makes you guys be who youare like?
Why do people want, like a lotof you say, like sports, like
athletes?
Like my sons play basketball,they have coaches, they have
trainers and their trainers alsotrain nba players.
Their trainers also gotDivision I athletes.
You know, like, what's thebackground for you guys?

Speaker 2 (02:28):
Well, we both have our master's in psychology.
Well, that's enough.

Speaker 4 (02:31):
And then we created an accredited program.

Speaker 2 (02:34):
So we have a whole curriculum and it's in the proof
right, it's in the number ofcouples that we've worked with
Well you guys are huge.

Speaker 1 (02:39):
I've only heard fantastic things about you guys.

Speaker 3 (02:42):
Yeah, but if you think about going back to when
we first met, I remember youwere like we want to be couples
coaches.

Speaker 1 (02:49):
I'm like yeah, they weren't couples coaches then.

Speaker 3 (02:52):
They were, but they virtually had no following.
It was just a vision.

Speaker 1 (02:56):
Right.

Speaker 3 (02:57):
And I'm like well, that's interesting, you never
want to rain on anybody's parade, but fast forward.
Describe the size of your scopetoday.

Speaker 2 (03:07):
Yeah, we're almost at a million followers, and I mean
our podcast ranks consistentlyin the top and got this great
big book deal.
Penguin Random House is callingit like one of their lead
titles for 2027.
So it is interesting though,because, if you think about it,
just a couple years ago we hadhardly any following, so we had

(03:28):
our baby.
She's almost four, but at thetime we had a newborn and we
almost lost everything, so wemade a couple investments that
we weren't very strategic about,and they all failed at once.
We literally were down todollars, and we had this newborn
baby smaller following, and nowwhere we are I mean, that's the
cool thing about life, right?
You can never really knowwhat's coming.

(03:50):
It's just mind blowing to seewhere we're going.

Speaker 4 (03:52):
So when you say, you guys lost everything, I also
have to just give credit,because this guy sitting right
here was one of the key playersthat helped us avoid disaster.
Well, how Well.
That's his world, right, likeour world is marriage, but his
world is real estate.

Speaker 3 (04:07):
He just called me and said I'm on fire.
Yeah, we just kind of steppedin and I said here's what's
going to happen, here's what'shappening, and just kind of
helped him through a difficulttime like I would really do for
anything.

Speaker 1 (04:19):
Like financial advice .

Speaker 3 (04:31):
Well, they were in a real estate transaction that was
, that was going bad, in a hurryand okay, and those have a way
of compounding on themselves.
Um, but the thing that you guys, you have this message and you
have a very unique way ofcommunicating and you're all
self-taught, so what's what'sreally just in inspirational to
me is how you went from zero butyou just kept at it and you had
a vision and you never waveredNot for.

(04:52):
And then all of a sudden, youknow here you are.
So I think, for peoplelistening, it's such a great
example of just have a visionand stick to it, no matter what
and then hone that what.

Speaker 1 (05:08):
What were the steps like?
How did you do that?
How do you get to a millionfollowers?

Speaker 2 (05:12):
well, I would say, definitely the consistency right
.
We were creating content, evenwhen it was just a few people
watching.
So it was a message, it wassomething we were inspired by
and I I think it was the why,and people talk a lot about that
.
Right, have your why, but forme, I would run through a wall
for this, and it really stemsfrom my experience growing up

(05:32):
and watching my parents divorceand I think I just really care
about marriages.
I care about families stayingtogether, and not just staying
together but thriving.
So it's really like this firethat stems from being a child
and not having a voice.
And now I have a voice and nowI can make a difference and I
can impact people.
So it's not like a niche that Ijust am like, well, it's a good

(05:55):
idea.
It's like, no, this is mypurpose.
And then, obviously, we'repassionate about marriage
because we had such differentexperiences growing up and so we
just really love being able tohave couples understand what
they learned growing up, butwhat they can create.

Speaker 1 (06:10):
So you're a child of divorce, Are you as well?
Aaron?

Speaker 4 (06:13):
No, my parents are still together, 47 years.
So coming up on that 50-yearmark, and it's funny because not
only are we writing about thechallenge that we went through
in 2022, how you helped us, butour backgrounds like our new
book coming in a year is goingto have all these stories in it.
My parents are still together,but there's really no better

(06:34):
upbringing.
I mean, you know you can getinto trauma and you can have
tragedy happen, but you couldlook at my upbringing and my
parents are Christian.
I went to a Christianian schoolk through 12.
My dad quit a corporate job uh,when I was in like fourth grade
to teach at our school and beat the sporting events that me
and my brother were at.

(06:55):
So he was always there.
So on the surface, that's likea good childhood.
I also never saw my parentsargue one time didn't mean that
they didn't, it was just Ididn't see it.
And so whenever there wastension with my parents, it was
like communication immediatelystopped.
There was a pause, my dad wouldbe the one walking out of the
room and the next thing I knowthat we're just playing in the
yard, playing kickball orplaying basketball or whatever.

(07:16):
So that becomes the myemotional home.
That becomes what I know inrelationships.
So when I get well, there's alonger story.
I mean, I'm broken up with mostof my adult life and
relationships don't work out andI get cheated on a few times.
So I start to convince myselfthat I'm not even meant for
marriage at all.
I meet Jocelyn at LA FitnessLiterally.

Speaker 3 (07:43):
Love the gym.

Speaker 1 (07:43):
Love the gym.
Wait that new one.

Speaker 2 (07:46):
How long have you guys been married?
This was an older one.

Speaker 4 (07:50):
And actually our anniversary is in two weeks.
We'll be married 10 years.

Speaker 1 (07:54):
Oh, wow, okay wait, you're talking about the
Biltmore LA Fitness, the onethat's got the pool and the roof
.

Speaker 4 (07:58):
So that's Lifetime?
Oh, that's Lifetime, theearlier one.

Speaker 1 (08:01):
Oh, it's torn down now it's, I think, probably so
you know I met her, we exchangedemails wait, walk me through
that.
Are you lifting weights?
Do you go to her and flirt withher like how they?

Speaker 4 (08:12):
had a curl bar rack and she has a tattoo on her back
.
So when she went to grab a curlbar, funny enough and I was
like sitting on the ground andI'm like I gotta go talk to her.
But I've always failed tryingto approach women, especially at
the gym and then.
So this time I just was muchmore authentic.
I even got an email, but whatdid you say?

Speaker 2 (08:32):
My name's Aaron, basically, I mean you know, it
was just very authentic.
He didn't have like a pickupline and I think that's what
made me talk to him, was?
He was, I think, literally justlike hey, I'm Aaron, what's
your name?

Speaker 1 (08:42):
And he was like curls for the girls Not with him.

Speaker 2 (08:46):
But I saw him.
I mean, I was eyeing him too.

Speaker 1 (08:49):
Okay, wait.
What's the tattoo on your back?

Speaker 2 (08:52):
It's lotus flowers and cherry blossoms.

Speaker 1 (08:54):
Is it lower back?

Speaker 2 (08:55):
It's the top quarter.

Speaker 1 (08:57):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (08:57):
Yeah, and so, yeah, he was just sweet and I loved
that he asked for my emailaddress instead of my phone
number it was smooth.

Speaker 4 (09:06):
Let me ask you this it was safer for me.
That was the day before askingfor Instagram Are you close with
your mother?
Not in particular.
So yeah, going back to thatstory, it was you know, what I
witnessed is what I witnessed,and so we get together and it's
not like any of my history isnow magically gone, right.
So she becomes more interestedin me quicker than is

(09:31):
comfortable.
So I actually tried to break upwith her.
Oh, wow, and that was on thephone, and so we actually hung
up the phone and she calledright back.
This was way before in asmartphone, so I had to flip it
open.
It's the green screen.
But I answered it again and shesaid you know what?
That just doesn't work for melike that was her response to

(09:51):
saying I want to break up withyou.
Let's be friends.
How long you've been togetherat this point?

Speaker 2 (09:54):
a few months, yeah, and I well, because I knew it
was fear he wasn't saying, hey,I don't think we're aligned in
our values or we're just toodifferent.
Like, like he.
All of what he was saying wasyou know, this is great and
you're great, and I feel allthese positive things.
What he was sharing was hisfear of being hurt again, of how

(10:14):
serious it was becoming, and sothere was a moment where I was
literally thinking about it andI was like, wow, I could go the
rest of my life wondering what,if, or I could just put my heart
on the line right now and justsay the bold thing.
And so I was like, let me dothis, let me see what happens.

Speaker 4 (10:35):
Like when we talk about something that hits your
subconscious, like I couldn'thave even told you if you asked
me, what if this girl was tocall you back, what would have
you be back in?
Well, I got nothing.
But she calls back, and it wasthe way that she said it like
really spoke to the subconsciousfear that I don't have to fear
rejection or that she's going tojust break up with me.

(10:55):
And it spoke right to.
It just gave me confidence likewell, obviously I'm back into
this now, fast forward.
That's not like all the things Ihad to work through because I
didn't see my parents argue atall.
So you know, we go, we're goodfor a while, we get a house, but
we start to have conflict comeup eventually, like all couples
do.
And my only model for conflictis to you know, we're in the car

(11:18):
, I stopped saying anything, Ilook out the window or we have
conflict, and I walk out theroom just like my dad did,
because that has to be betterthan yelling, screaming, getting
aggressive and reacting.
But I find out that that has mypartner feel isolated,
incomplete in the conversation,and from her upbringing she
doesn't, she won't leave aconversation alone.

(11:39):
She's like we're gonna get thisresolved, so these were
literally the opposite forces.
So we realized early on that,hey, there are things that we
both learned, that were, thatwere modeled to us, and we can
either choose to keep thosegoing or we're going to really
do the work together and unlearnthese patterns and learn some
more productive things for thesuccess it's amazing that you

(12:01):
didn't, that you took it the waythat you took it, rather than
be like okay, next yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:07):
To have the balls to call back.

Speaker 3 (12:09):
Thank you.
Thank you for saying that.
Who does that?
I know, especially on thewomen's side.

Speaker 1 (12:13):
At this point had you already had your psychology
degree and you already knew.

Speaker 2 (12:17):
Not at that point, but I was in a leadership
program so thankfully I had acoach that was challenging me
and my communication and where Iwould operate from insecurities
and fears and so I was beingchallenged and really seeing
where I would really play outjust insecurity.
And I was like you know what,what if I was just confident?

(12:39):
What if I just said the boldthing, put my heart on the line
and I could be turned down?
But I didn't want to have that.
What if I really changed somuch in having a coach and
really seeing just how the way Ishowed up in relationships was
not authentic.
I was a chameleon.
I would not say what I reallymeant and felt because I was

(13:02):
afraid of being rejected.

Speaker 1 (13:03):
But also for him.
You had to have gone.
I love this guy.
I'm not just going to let himgo.
There's something like this.
There's more to it.
It's just not some guy.

Speaker 2 (13:12):
It was just something that I felt like because it
funny enough, when I met him andwe went on a date, I was
actually in like a dating spree.

Speaker 3 (13:22):
I you know what's so funny I was.

Speaker 2 (13:25):
I was not like a big go on a frequent date kind of
person.
I was a relationship person.
But I had got, I had gottenbroken up with some I can't
remember maybe a year before andI was working on myself and
again I just really changed myrelationship to myself, loved
myself.
I didn't need a relationshiplike I did in the past.
And so once I felt that, I'mtelling you, men were coming

(13:47):
like what is it?
Moths to a flame?

Speaker 4 (13:50):
I mean just I was our first date.
I find out years later that Iwas just one of two that same
day.
I had the morning slot and shehad dinner already playing with
someone else.

Speaker 2 (14:03):
But it was funny because, honestly, my energy
changing did attract people, andso I.
But here's the thing I wasalways authentic with people.
I never ghosted them.
I always said, you know, hey, Idon't really feel the
connection with you.
And people said like, thank youfor being honest.

Speaker 1 (14:18):
But did you say I got to wrap this up, I got another
date.

Speaker 2 (14:27):
Well, I, after I went out to breakfast with him.
We went to breakfast, Icanceled the next date and I
didn't book anymore because Ifelt such a connection with him.

Speaker 3 (14:31):
So I was like oh, you canceled everybody else.

Speaker 2 (14:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (14:33):
Okay, but you met him at the gym, Did you?

Speaker 1 (14:35):
were you on a dating app or website?
Before that it was just guyscoming up to you or you did you
ever go up to a guy and ask himout.

Speaker 2 (14:41):
No, I was literally attracting people just because
of my energy.
So it was at gyms, it was atcoffee shops.

Speaker 1 (14:47):
Introductions okay, so let me ask this you guys have
been now about to celebrate 10years 10 years married together
12 okay, and in that time haveeither of you ever been out
somewhere and bumped intosomeone that you've been, that
you were on the dating spreewith like oh my god, that's
Jerry.

Speaker 2 (15:01):
We went on a minute with him.

Speaker 1 (15:02):
That should be cool.

Speaker 2 (15:03):
We did.
You actually met one of my exeslike had a conversation, have I
?

Speaker 4 (15:08):
met one of those.
It's actually by the yogastudio you go to now, I think.

Speaker 2 (15:10):
Yeah, someone local.
Have I met any of yours?
I'm trying to think.

Speaker 4 (15:13):
I don't have any.
Oh, I didn't need to college,so that was my early years.

Speaker 2 (15:23):
You dated people you weren't in long-term committed
relationships.

Speaker 4 (15:27):
No I think my longest before that was two months
maybe, so that was a pattern foryou Two months break up.

Speaker 1 (15:32):
Two months break up being broken up with or being
broken up with.

Speaker 4 (15:35):
Yeah, I mean I never was the one that broke up with
someone else, so I'm always onthe breakup end.

Speaker 1 (15:40):
So what's it like for you when you met someone that
she'd been with?

Speaker 4 (15:44):
I was pretty confident because I think we had
been together.
We may have even been marriedat that point.

Speaker 1 (15:48):
It could be, yeah something like that Is it
important to know the past.
You know what's funny?

Speaker 4 (15:53):
That's a good question, I think from my own
fear I don't know if this wasintentionally good or just again
from fear I said I don't have,I didn't have any history anyway
.
Right, so this is just all frommy benefit.
I said, let's, let's just erasethe past and not talk about the
past I because I didn't.
I didn't even have any partnersbefore her.
So there's like literallynothing for me.

(16:14):
And yeah, I didn't reallynecessarily want to know and I
wanted to have a clean slate.
So I told her early on, like itdoesn't matter to me, before me
, you made the decisions youmade, and so here we are now
making decisions together.
So what?
What relevance is the past?
Anyway?

Speaker 1 (16:29):
and that's strong.
We definitely how do you?

Speaker 3 (16:31):
how do you go from?
Because prior to beingrelationship coaches, you're an
engineer.
You were in multi-levelmarketing no, I was a nurse.

Speaker 2 (16:40):
Oh, you were a nurse.

Speaker 3 (16:41):
Oh you were a nurse.
Okay, Like, how do you go fromengineer and nurse to, oh, we're
going to be couples coaches?
I mean, that's not a straightpath.

Speaker 2 (16:53):
I think people today are making a lot more pivots
than was common before.
Right, I think you probablyknow people who.
They went to school forsomething and then they realize
this isn't it for me.
So that's the funny thing aboutcollege, right?
You're supposed to just, at 18,figure out what you want to be
and you're kind of picking froma board of like I guess that.
And so I think just fromgrowing up and having

(17:16):
experiences and then meeting, itwas like discovering our
purpose.

Speaker 4 (17:20):
I have a slightly different answer for that, as
well, it was necessity for me tolearn relationship skills
because I had been such afailure in relationships that I
really wanted a marriage to workwith her and I didn't feel
confident that I knew if we'replaying basketball, if we're
doing anything, it's what can Ilearn?
It's clear what I can learn, andthen I start to do it and then

(17:42):
I get competent at it and thenthat's when you have a lot more
confidence to get on the courtwith people that are higher,
higher level.
So I didn't know what it tookto have a successful marriage.
I'm like let's really seek thisout, because I want to be
confident that if we're going toget married, that we know the
tools, we know what we can do tobe successful, and it was out
of necessity for our own success.

(18:03):
Then learning those skills andtools and kind of having more of
a, if you will, entrepreneurialmentality that we don't have to
just work the jobs we went toschool for.
People were asking us like itseems like you guys have
communication and conflictresolution skills down.
So then we just built that intomore of a sharing and that it
was a business and now it's abrand.

Speaker 2 (18:23):
I mean, and people really liked the idea of
something that wasn't counseling.
So when we were talking about,yeah, we're learning how to
communicate, we're learning howto handle conflict, and they
were like, oh, outside of atherapist's office, that was
interesting.
This was before Instagram wasblowing up and now everyone you
know is creating content online,especially for men.

Speaker 4 (18:42):
If you tell typically males like we're going to take
a coaching approach, think ofthe sport, think of running,
think of basketball.
You've got to coach to getbetter.
That's what we're going to doin this marriage coaching, we're
going to give you skills andtools.
We're going to hold youaccountable.
This is going to work.

Speaker 1 (18:59):
But do you guys coach individuals or always couples,
always?

Speaker 2 (19:02):
couples so it's's not like is it ever one at a time,
it's always we will, once in awhile, just have like an
additional session with one ofthem if we need to really go
deeper into something.
But we work with the couplebecause we've had a lot of
people ask us well, could youjust work with me?
My partner's not open to it.
You only get one side of thestory and so one person.
I could be working with themand they're telling my partner

(19:23):
this and my partner that, and soit's like painting this picture
of like wow, you have kind of acrappy partner.

Speaker 1 (19:27):
So it's always two on two.
It's not like he'll go with thehusband and you'll go with the
wife.

Speaker 3 (19:32):
And there is because I've been on the other side of
this.
Okay, and they are clearly nextlevel.

Speaker 4 (19:42):
And.

Speaker 3 (19:42):
I've been on the other side, I can see it well.
I've been on the other side ofcounseling, where the counselors
just never have an opinionabout anything.
Everything's kind of neutraland and you just kind of sit
there and you walk away andnothing happens.

Speaker 1 (19:56):
Their style is coaches, holy moly like if
you're, if you're out of line,wait, you've witnessed them
coach other people.

Speaker 3 (20:04):
No, me, me and my relationships, holy moly.
So you?

Speaker 1 (20:07):
sat on the couch in their world.

Speaker 3 (20:11):
Oh, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:12):
And did we challenge you?

Speaker 3 (20:14):
Oh, not only challenged, but honest,
constructive.
Hey, buddy.

Speaker 1 (20:21):
So are you the problem in that relationship?
Does that relationship stillexist?
Hey?

Speaker 3 (20:25):
buddy.
So are you the problem in thatrelationship?
Does that relationship stillexist?
Um it, it it.
It does indirectly, but um, yes,I was the problem and and she
was the problem I mean differentways yeah, everybody brings in
this but then you agree todisagree and you're like maybe
this isn't right but but tounpack your side and get clarity

(20:45):
and then there be, and thenthis needs to happen in order to
move forward, is something thatthat I just never got inside
therapy, and so you guys have.
I don't know how you youmanifested it, but you've got
this amazing skill to get to theheart of the issue while both
people are there, withoutputting that other person kind

(21:06):
of on the defensive, but doingit in a way to where you know,
hey, that behavior is just notgoing to be conducive to a
relationship that's going to beproductive.

Speaker 1 (21:16):
So, again, I just Well, as far as coaching goes,
do you guys ever coach and sayyou know what, maybe you guys
shouldn't be together, Maybethis isn't?

Speaker 2 (21:25):
right.
We're very honest with peopleand we had our first coaching
couple.
This is early on.
They were engaged, had awedding date and we said, hey,
we do recommend you probably puta pause on this and really work
on the issues.
This was the first couple.

Speaker 4 (21:42):
Now, today, god challenged us honestly if, like
the first couple, like we weregoing to do marriage coaching
and the very first couple everand we had a friendship with
them too we were at a crossroadslike, okay, if we're really
going to do this, are we goingto be honest with what we
believe is true, right, and so Ifeel like that was God really

(22:04):
saying.
This is your initiation intothis.

Speaker 1 (22:07):
So what happened with that couple?

Speaker 2 (22:09):
They actually did put a pause on the wedding and they
worked on themselves and therelationship then got married
and it was much better.

Speaker 4 (22:16):
It's not even that simple.
I ended up running into himlike four years later and he
said they pretty much canceledthe wedding.
He went on like a yearself-improvement and he said
they, they pretty much theycanceled the wedding.
He went on like a yearself-improvement, traveled like
to different countries.
He had this awakening, cameback as different people and
then they they got engaged andgot married again.

(22:36):
So when I met him he was likeyou know what he was like?
It was really challenging tohear you guys say that we
shouldn't, but he's like nowsitting here, he's like I'm so
glad we're actually differentpeople.

Speaker 2 (22:47):
Now here's the thing about today because of our brand
and the type of videos we putout, we're parents now, and so
we do loop in a lot of theparenting elements.
We attract mostly couples whohave kids.
Of course, there's exceptions,so it's more complicated, right,
like we're not going tostraight up be like you
shouldn't be together when youhave kids, because my mission is
to keep families together,right, but not just surviving,

(23:15):
thriving, and so, rather thanbeing like, hey, this is like
probably too hard, you guysshould give up.
The stakes are too high whenyou have kids.
There really is an impact.
We have this motto you don'thave to end the marriage, to end
this version of the marriage soyou can end how it's been
existing, the patterns that havebeen occurring, how you both
are playing a role, as you weretalking about, and really draw a

(23:37):
line in the sand and have anhonest conversation about what
are we both going to change forthe better and what are we going
to do moving forward and ofcourse, there's specifics to
talk about, but I think that'swhat's possible.
You know people, when theyencounter challenges in marriage
, the quick impulse is to be outrather than to change our

(23:58):
marriage.
I can change my patterns.
You don't have to change yourpartner.

Speaker 1 (24:03):
Change your patterns yeah, a lot of people kind of
draw that line in the sand andthey're like I'm out.
If he ever does this, I'm out.
If she ever does this, I'm out.
And then you realize actuallywhat a strong person you need to
be to work through it to makeit successful.

Speaker 2 (24:17):
Well, you need a growth mindset to be married.
I think that is the mostimportant thing is that when you
get married to someone, you'rewith someone who has a growth
mindset, who, just like they,care about their career, and
they would be like, oh yeah, ofcourse I would go to continuing
education, I'd get a coach youknow to be better and better in
my career.
I would do the same thing inthe marriage.

(24:38):
I think the biggest red flag ifyou're like for anyone
listening and they're dating,considering marrying someone, is
if they say, oh, I don't, Idon't believe in that stuff, I
don't believe in that, like youknow, therapy and coaching stuff
.
That's a red flag because youknow why what they're really
saying is I'm not willing tolook at myself.

Speaker 3 (24:57):
What have you guys learned about your, your
coaching, or like, how is itevolved?
And then how is yourrelationship evolved?
And you know not everybody itevolved.
And then how is yourrelationship evolved?
And you know, not everybody,it's not always easy, right?

Speaker 2 (25:07):
nope, been in a little rough patch recently.
Even we're very open.
We have a podcast as well, andwe are very open about how there
are happy and hard moments ofmarriage between you two yeah,
of course when you do yourpodcast is it weekly, monthly,
Weekly, Weekly.

Speaker 1 (25:23):
So you sit down and go, you hit record and you guys
are therapizing yourself.
If that's a word, Do you knowwhat I'm saying?

Speaker 4 (25:31):
I'd say we really reflect on the sessions that we
have and what are the themesthat we're seeing from men, from
women, in marriage.
So we really take a lot of whatwe talk about from sessions and
it's so funny how it works out.
I'm sure you have theexperience too.
We'll go through something, andwhat's been a miracle for us is

(25:52):
that we have this outlet, likewe have marriage coaching and
putting marriage principlesonline as a way to alchemize our
own challenge, which a lot ofpeople wouldn't have.
So we go through a challengeand we know that that is
eventually for us not only forus to learn, but that when we
learn it, we teach it, and so Ican't tell you how many times we

(26:13):
have something come up in ourown life and that when we
legitimately transform it, awave of couples will come into
our sphere dealing withsomething very similar.

Speaker 2 (26:24):
Now we're already prepared to really help meet
them where they're at, and it'sthat's happened so many times
because, to your point, like ourbelief and this is what we
really invite couples into isthat any challenge that is
showing up is because it'strying to teach you a lesson
like that's our philosophy forlife any adversity that you face
, any challenge, any obstacle,is trying to develop you into

(26:47):
being a better version ofyourself.
So the same thing in marriage.
So we're about to have our 10year wedding anniversary and we
went through a really traumaticexperience with a family member
this summer and it kind of justhad a ripple effect to us.
Like we were both kind of infight or flight because it was a
pretty intense situation.
So we were just more reactivetowards each other, more

(27:10):
sensitive, you know, justconflicts coming up, and so it
was an opportunity for us to gookay, where is our reactivity
coming from?
Why are we being more reactiveas opposed to just letting the
cycle spiral, spiral, spiral outof control?
So we just really look atchallenges as something that's
trying to teach us.

Speaker 1 (27:30):
So you had to address it pretty quickly then and
before it spirals.

Speaker 2 (27:34):
Of course.

Speaker 1 (27:35):
Right.
That's one thing I've realizedtoo in marriage, and more lately
now, is communication.
I don't know if that soundscliche, but, mike, every time
now I feel that there ever wasan issue, it's communication.
Yep, you've got to be, and as aguy, I think it's hard to open
yourself up like that aboutcertain things.

(27:55):
In fact, I was on yourInstagram and I saw a bunch of
stuff and it just reminds me ofso many different levels of
marriage, me with so manydifferent levels of marriage,
like you know, like for likeright now, I saw something about
, uh, this, not sexual, but likeintimacy, yes, like touching,
like like I, I just like theother, like it was last night,
like my wife she's just rubbingmy back and I was like this

(28:16):
feels so good and it was likethis weird, like I don't know if
it's weird, but it was like,yes, does that make sense.
Yeah, like I just felt so at onewith her and I was so grateful
that she was rubbing my back.
Yeah, you know, and I have thisthing now.
Uh, when you say you'rerealizing certain things in your
life, in your marriage, we'vebeen going through something,
because all we have three boys,all three boys now are in

(28:40):
college.
Wow, the youngest so we'realmost empty nesters, because
the oldest came back to finishonline and I know that she was
going through.
That was tough for her, right,and it was tough for me too, and
a couple things like botheredme.
One is that she never reallyasked me how I was dealing with
it, but I was also dealing withit in my own way, so I was also.

(29:00):
I was also okay that she didn'task me about it, but I was like
, why isn't she asking me aboutit?
There was that, and thenthere's just the when I come
home from work, like I kind ofwant her to say hi to me yeah,
does that make sense?
yeah, you want to be greeted andit hasn't happened in a while.
And I was all saying you knowwhat it's?
Because she's caught up in thisthing right now with our kids.

(29:22):
She's got this.
But I'm about like I was.
I might even bring it up todaybecause I still haven't had that
conversation where I'm like hey, I want you to say hi to me
when I come home, but I alsodon't want her to be like 1950s
housewife oh honey, you're home,hi.
Does that make sense of?

Speaker 2 (29:35):
course, and you know.
But here's the thing that'spowerful about what you're
saying is those little seeds Icall them seeds these little
things starting to form.
If we don't express them, theygrow into weeds.
They will start to change theway we see our partners see our
relationship.
So then we start to actdifferent, so then that affects
how they're feeling in therelationship, and so suddenly

(29:56):
you're like why are we bothbeing weird and why is this?

Speaker 1 (29:59):
because I was weird, I acted weird about it and I
don't think.
And then I, and then I.
Because she didn't say hi to me, I like got pissed yeah so I
just turn on the tv and make mylunch and I'm sitting there, and
then she'll go oh, you're home.
I come home every day at thistime, honey.
You know what I'm saying?
It's funny.
If she watches, I better talkto her before this podcast drops
.

Speaker 2 (30:15):
Yeah, it's great, though, because everyone can
relate to that stuff, and that'sthe thing is.
People think that it's justhappening to them.
So it's all.
This marriage stuff is justbehind closed doors rather than.
We have talked to a lot ofsuccessful people and they all
deal with the same thing.
So it doesn't matter howsuccessful you are, how strong
you are, the dynamics ofmarriage are very universal.

Speaker 1 (30:37):
I find that being as open as I can and as vulnerable
as I can has really helped ourmarriage.
I've been married 29 years.
That's amazing.
That's a long freaking time.

Speaker 2 (30:47):
So I have a question for you.
So we talked a little bit aboutwhat was modeled for us.
What did your dad model for youLike?

Speaker 1 (30:58):
how did he show up in the marriage with your mom?
So my mom and dad, they hadthey.
They divorced when I was like18, um, and they, but they
always hung out.
We always, we were alwaystogether Christmas, we're always
together, birthdays.
It was weird.
It was just like they lived indifferent places.
Um, I think they always lovedeach other, but my dad was
always, uh, respectful to my mom.

(31:18):
Um, never my mom.
She's mexican.
She flew off the handle all thetime.
She was screaming and yelling,but my dad would always.
Why can't we have aconversation and talk like this?
right, this is how they wouldfight um.
Does that answer your question?
Well, like I mean did heexpress himself?
He would.
If they got into a huge fightnow, when I was a kid and they

(31:40):
got into a huge fight, I wouldget excited because I got to
stay up late and watch tv, um,so I'll be like they're fighting
.

Speaker 2 (31:45):
Yes, we get to watch tv, um, but he would go close
the door in his room and Iremember it was like but isn't
that interesting about how itwasn't just communicating, it
was to express myself as a fight, and that's what a lot of
people associate if theywitnessed conflict, like for me,
same thing my parents divorcedand it was.
I didn't see communication, Isaw fighting, and so that's what

(32:09):
a lot of people, if they didwitness that, they associate
expressing themselves with thisis going to start a fight yes,
so then they don't want to do itmy dad will come out of the
bedroom and then fight with mymom.

Speaker 1 (32:20):
They would argue about stuff and I would witness.
I can't remember what it was,but I just remember the tension
you know, and how ugly.
It was as a kid, yeah.
But I also think, like now,like I communicate with my wife,
she communicates like we'vebeen to therapy a lot.
You know it's a, it's a lot.
It's a lot to be 29 yearstogether.
You've got a.
It's a lot of work and I haveto say honestly, in 29 years I

(32:40):
don't think my marriage has everbeen happier and healthier than
it is right now why do youthink that is?
communication, being open abouteverything and vulnerable and
just sharing like everything,you know everything, like I like
.
She called me handsome todaywhen I was leaving the house and
I know that sounds silly, but Iwas like, I like that.
I remember I came up withtherapy one time.

(33:02):
I was like you know, I don'tknow if you think I'm attractive
or not.
You know what.

Speaker 3 (33:05):
I mean, yeah, so where did your vulnerability
come from?
Because we, when we went toJesse's oh yeah, he, we're all
sitting there on the lawn.
He says, okay, raise your hand.
Where are you from?
Why are you here?
All that stuff?
And you're one of the firstpeople that talked.

Speaker 1 (33:24):
That's because they went in certain order.
I hate that stuff, yeah, andyou described how uncomfortable
you were.

Speaker 3 (33:34):
I don't know what I'm getting myself into and I'm
like God, this is somebody Iwant to hang out with.
I mean, he was so raw and real.
I'm like I know this guy fromthe business climate and that
doesn't match, but yet it does.

Speaker 1 (33:45):
And that was so.
That whole thing was so out ofcharacter for me.
I was lying in bed with my wifethis Jesse is a guy who I big
fan of, I love.
He posted it's a guy who I bigfan of, I love.
He posted something about asauna and and cold plunge, which
I love, and my wife wassleeping and I.

Speaker 2 (34:00):
I did it you just signed up.

Speaker 1 (34:01):
I did.
And then she woke up and I go,I did this thing and she was
like what are you doing?
I go, I signed up for thisthing.
I'm trying to unsign up.
She was like do it, just do it.
I'm like, no, no, just do it.
You gotta Just do it, just doit.
And I was sick to my stomachfor days until this thing
happened, and then I loved everysecond of it.
That's awesome, and so that'swhen I decided to continue to

(34:23):
take challenges and do stuffKind of like this podcast.
This kind of stuff freaks meout, but by the way, a couple
things I love that.
I always want to have arms whereI'm talking and you can see the
veins oh yeah, we met at thegym.

Speaker 2 (34:37):
That's what drew me in.

Speaker 1 (34:38):
That's awesome, but also I'm fascinated by not
wanting to know her past.
Not that you have some crazypast, but, like my wife, we were
dating.
I wanted to know everything youknow and maybe this is bad, but
29 years years later, I stillbring up her first boyfriend.

Speaker 2 (34:58):
I bring him up all the time.
Funny, what for just to havefun.

Speaker 1 (34:59):
Okay, like uh, in fact she even said we were, um,
like I said we took my son toschool.
He's a freshman at theuniversity of arizona.
She went there, she was in asorority and I was like, because
you know, we went and moved himin.
I'm like, so did your dad.
Her parents are divorced.
I said so how did you guys moveinto the dorm?
She said, oh, my mom moved mein, I go, just your mom.
And she's like oh, and somebodyelse.

Speaker 4 (35:19):
And it was her boyfriend.

Speaker 1 (35:21):
So it doesn't bother me at all.
I mean I look at it like I won.

Speaker 4 (35:26):
Yeah, of course You've got 29 years and kids, it
reminds me of something elseyou brought up earlier was about
the vision right that a coupleneeds to have.
But I think we've reallylearned, especially in our own
life, let alone all the couplesthat we've talked to, is, if
you're going to be married along time and there's a lot of
science too duration is not yourmain goal.

(35:47):
Duration with high satisfactionis your goal.
You don't want to just bemarried under obligation for 50
years.
That's really no way to live.
Is your goal.
You don't want to just bemarried under obligation for 50
years, like that's no, really noway to live.
So, with that being said,marriage goes through an
evolution.
Like you kind of have to remakeyour marriage every so many
years.
That's so good, that's so good,and that's that's how we best

(36:08):
describe the vision.
A vision is a way toconceptualize the collaborative
future that you want to createtogether, by saying, hey, we
know we've done what we've donein the past.
We have the amount of money,the kids, the achievements, but
okay, here we are now.
What do we want to recreategoing forward?
And I think that's a part ofhow you keep that spark, the

(36:32):
romance, that's how you see eachother differently, because if
you don't do these things.
Then there's this erosion, likeI can wake up after 10 years,
after 20 years, and then thereshe is again.

Speaker 1 (36:42):
Oh, the video.
You guys posted the roommates,the roommates video that's a
great great video roommatesversus uh romantic romantic
partners.
Wow that, that, that that hithard, because I think, being
together as long as I've beentogether, you go through that
For sure and if you don't stopit, it's going to be a problem.
We have kids and money andbusiness.

Speaker 3 (37:02):
and how do you navigate a couple that is not on
the same motivationalwavelength in terms of trying to
come to a solution?
Maybe it's more so on thehusband, or more so on what do
you do to bring along bothpeople?

Speaker 2 (37:17):
Anything jumped out at you.
I mean, I think we always liketo first see what they both
value.
Right, talk about values andusually they are more aligned
than they might think.
So the initial thing they'rearguing for, like, let's say,
it's a I know you're big onfinances, right, so it might be
a financial decision thatthey're trying to make.
If they get detached from whatthey're both saying as their

(37:38):
argument and come back to whatthey value, that's usually the
same thing.
There are exceptions wherepeople do have different values,
but for the most part, that'spart of what made them choose to
get married was that they'realigned in those values and then
when they get reminded of that,it helps them make the decision
.
So, for example, a couple thatwe actually know really

(37:59):
personally one partner was justoffered a really big promotion
and, as they talk about itbecause it's enticing, it was a
lot of money, it's so enticingEveryone's oh, more money.
But when they really looked atwhat they value and their kids
are still young, so they reallywant as much time with their
kids they even want to dosomewhat of like a hybrid
homeschool, a little bit of anoutside school, and they want to

(38:23):
just raise them veryintentionally, they realize that
that didn't align, because itwould have had them traveling a
lot more, working later nights,and so that's what we always
have, like the vision, like youwere bringing up the vision and
values.
When they really do getconnected to that, the answer
becomes a lot more clear.

Speaker 4 (38:41):
And, to simplify it, things typically get worse the
more you focus on yourself andthe more short term you get.
And so then that easily happenswhen you don't recreate that
vision.
Because the vision expands yourtime horizon to the medium, the
long term, and it incorporatesyour partner and your family,
and it's been more popularizednow.

(39:02):
But being self-conscious themore self-conscious you are, the
more miserable miserable you'llbe like, the more you focus on
the self and the more short term.
So, like to your to yourquestion, couples just get too
focused on themselves versus thepartnership and they get too
focused short term.
What they're doing now, what toget done today?

Speaker 3 (39:23):
what she's not doing.

Speaker 4 (39:25):
I was gonna go there next too right, and if you don't
recreate that, you just leaveyourself in a place but aaron,
it's just really her yeah, yeah,I mean all.
What else are you going to focuson, right?
If you don't have that?
It's your really her.
Yeah, yeah, I mean.
What else are you going tofocus on, right, if you don't
have that?
It's your differences inpreferences and perceptions
about whatever where the dishesgo, organization, how you hang

(39:46):
your clothes, when the dishesare put in the dishwasher, who
takes them out.
It just you get down to suchmundane things and you and your
partner are always going to havedifferences in personality, in
preferences, and so if you don'thave something to counteract
hyper-focusing on that, thenthat's all you think about.
Why can't they be like this,why can't they be like that?
That annoys me.
That's just all the minutia ofnot recreating every maybe six,

(40:11):
seven years.
If you're going to do this along time, what's next, and what
is it next for us, and how dowe take this out to the medium
to long?

Speaker 2 (40:19):
term.
Well, we review our vision atleast once a year.
It's really important becauselife can change so quickly and
so even to your point likeyou're becoming empty nesters.
That's a really important timein a marriage, right?
The early years of having youngkids like that's a very
vulnerable time.
There's a lot of evolution whenyou go from just being the two
of you to then having kids, butthen also when you're going to

(40:41):
have, you know your kids out andno longer in the home.
That's a time to also go.
What's next for us, babe?
What's our vision now?
Otherwise, it's very easy tofeel kind of like you've grown
apart or it's just the mundane.

Speaker 1 (40:56):
You do grow apart, especially when you are like the
breadwinner and so you'remaking the sacrifices to be away
from your family, to go to work.
Yeah, it makes me think you'rethe couple that was deciding to
take the job, for money Also,you've got to provide, so you've
got to work.
It takes away a lot, and thenyou do kind of fall into that

(41:16):
roommate situation that wassaying earlier.
So it's like you're working,you're working, you're working.
You come home, dinner, food,take the kids to school, work,
work, work back, and then youkind of lose track of the
romance between you and yourspouse and so you really got to
work hard at that, you know, andthen, like that's kind of where
I feel like we're at right now,with kids being gone, that
we've been fortunate enough tobe able to still be romantic

(41:37):
with each other.

Speaker 2 (41:38):
That's great.
How did you prioritize yourmarriage all those years, even
while raising kids Didn't Really?

Speaker 1 (41:43):
That's when we probably had to do the therapy
part.
Sometimes I'm like I can'tbelieve she stayed with me and
that this happened.
I'm so blessed and I thank Godevery day for my marriage
Honestly blessed, and I thankGod every day for my marriage
because I honestly, when I say Ithank God every day for
marriage, I truly do that.
Every single morning at 4 am, Isay out loud the things I'm
grateful for, and my marriage isone of them.
Because it's amazing.

(42:05):
Sometimes you look at what'shappening.
I can't believe we got this far, this happened, this happened.
This happened.
We drifted apart here, but wecame back together.
Now we work really, really hardand it's fun too.
Now it's fun.
I love coming home.
I love seeing what she's goingto wear to bed Not that she
wears anything freaky it'susually a t-shirt but I love
seeing what t-shirt she's goingto wear.

(42:25):
I love that.
I still get passionate aboutevery inch of her body, if that
makes sense.

Speaker 2 (42:30):
I love that you're authentic about seeing a
therapist in the journey and Ithink for anyone listening,
wherever you are in yourmarriage journey maybe you're
engaged maybe a few years indecades is to really reframe
that you do have the time.
I think people have this focuson career, finances, raising the

(42:50):
kids and they forget that theirmarriage is the foundation of
their family, that when you areconnected everyone else thrives.
Like, think about that.
You perform better at work whenyou're connected.
If you're arguing at home ordisconnected, you know you're
not thinking as clearly, you'renot as confident, you're maybe

(43:11):
even thinking about thatargument and then you're anxious
to go home, right.
So if you two focus on yourconnection, even in little ways,
every single day, every week,everything else is easier and
your kids benefit.
Like that's what a lot of ourresearch focuses on now,
especially as we get ready forour next book, is how much a
strong marriage benefits kids.

Speaker 1 (43:31):
I believe that I'm so happy with how my three boys at
this point have turned out.
And I think it's becausethey've seen their dad love
their mom, their mom love theirdad.
We do family trips, we holdhands, we do all kinds of stuff
and that's one of the things I'mproud of the most of those
three kids and it's mostly allher, because I was at work all
day.

Speaker 2 (43:50):
So you both saw your parents get divorced right, you
said yours and hers divorced.

Speaker 1 (43:55):
Her parents got a very, very ugly, ugly divorce.
My parents turned key and theystill hung out all the time.

Speaker 2 (44:01):
Yeah, they even got back together.
What's cool is you guys haveboth now been cycle breakers.

Speaker 1 (44:07):
Oh, yeah, right.

Speaker 2 (44:07):
Like I don't know if you've ever recognized that
about yourselves Like you brokea cycle your kids don't Like.
It ended with you.

Speaker 1 (44:15):
Right, yeah, they're already, so the youngest is 19.
So that means, if you go bywith it, right, boom High five,
now we can break up.

Speaker 2 (44:23):
No, no, that that would actually just be another
cliche.
Right Is breakup.
When the kids go off to school,right?
Cause that's what a lot ofpeople do is say, oh, let's just
tough it out, let's wait tillthey move out.
It's like number one.
The kids knew all along.
Kids are so smart, they know ifyou're arguing, if you're
disconnected.
So, yes, it benefited them to adegree, but they were picking

(44:48):
up on it and did they get theexample of love?
Did they get the example ofpartnership?

Speaker 4 (44:55):
and for the ones that didn't pick it up.
Then they feel like it was asham, like oh, literally, you
got divorced a few months afterI went to college.
So what?
You just stayed together ofobligation for me, and then they
internalized some of that too,right, so there's I mean,
there's no win either way.
So you guys, you guys werehiding stuff, just uh, until I
went off to college.
And then it's like this shock,it's like oh, do you guys have

(45:16):
workshops?

Speaker 1 (45:17):
it's like big old thing, like I think it'd be fun
to go to like a.
Is it like?

Speaker 2 (45:22):
we do an in-person workshop, we have one in october
.

Speaker 1 (45:24):
Yeah, we've done over 50 in-person events in person,
like how many people go to aworkshop um, lately we've been
maxing it at about 44 couples,so about 88 people on the room
44 couples because we could gobigger.

Speaker 2 (45:36):
We have usually a wait list of people saying can I
please get in, but we reallylike to make sure that we're
available to talk to everysingle couple if they want the
interaction wow, it's, it'sincredible.

Speaker 3 (45:46):
Been there, been there done wow.

Speaker 1 (45:49):
So the one you have in october, where is it?
Can people sign up?
Or yeah, it's in chandler,arizona.

Speaker 2 (45:53):
There's a few seats left yeah it's called the
couples workshops, if they wentto our website where do you do
it?
Um a marriott in chandler okayyeah, it's really nice because
it's right near two freeways, soit's easy to get to is it just
you two?

Speaker 1 (46:05):
let me talk to the business side.
Do you have people that handleyour social media?
Do you have people that?

Speaker 2 (46:10):
or we have an assistant, we have a pr team
Book agent.
Yeah, book agent.

Speaker 3 (46:16):
But hold on a second.
That stuff's pretty new.

Speaker 2 (46:18):
Yeah, oh, just the last couple years that stuff is
pretty new, oh yeah.
It just used to be us.

Speaker 1 (46:24):
Okay well when you get to your social do you guys
say, let's do a video on this,and you set up the camera and
you're doing it all yourself,and then are you editing it on
your computer, on your phone, onCapCut, like who's doing what?

Speaker 2 (46:36):
Yeah, podcast stuff, we have an editor because those
are long and we do video and wedon't want to do like long, long
video editing, but social mediawe still film it.
We come up with the scriptsourselves, we film it and then
edit it, because I honestly, amso fast at it now that if I, it
would take me the same amount oftime to upload the files and
send them.

Speaker 1 (46:57):
So you're editing it on a laptop.

Speaker 2 (46:59):
Just your phone.
Yeah, social media videos.
It's a little bit easier.

Speaker 4 (47:02):
It's also more than that.
For you, it's like it's a placeof her expression, that's her
creativity.

Speaker 1 (47:07):
I think what you guys post is fantastic and it's so
well done, thank you.
And so, is there anythingthat's gone viral?
Is that one of the things thatIncredibly viral.

Speaker 2 (47:15):
I mean several posts, I would say.
A few messages really strike achord One you actually mentioned
around intimacy.
We did a scene where I actuallyreject his attempt to be
intimate.

Speaker 1 (47:28):
This was a recent one .
What does that do to the guywhen he makes it?
I'm sorry, was he showing his?

Speaker 4 (47:34):
arms when you did that In the video you see her
sleeping and you see my handcome over the top, and so I'm
going to sleep and I'm like nottonight, hon Right.

Speaker 2 (47:44):
So the typical, like every couple has experienced
that.

Speaker 1 (47:48):
Right.
So let's talk about that video,but also in in in therapy.
What does that do to the guywhen he gets rejected?

Speaker 2 (47:56):
Oh, I mean, rejection hurts right.

Speaker 1 (47:58):
Should you not reject or what do you do?

Speaker 2 (48:00):
What we would say instead right is talk about
intimacy.
So, rather than just kind ofbeing like attempting and then
rejecting, and then you're bothsilent and you know you're both
kind of, you both know it'scausing friction and pain is to
openly talk about intimacy, towhether you want to pick it on a
weekly basis or some period oftime where you're checking in

(48:20):
and it can be as casual as likehey, babe, how are you feeling
about our connection?
Talk about emotional intimacyand physical intimacy, making it
not feel like this serious,heavy conversation we openly
talk about.
Are you enjoying our intimacy?
Like, let's talk about it.
We don't make it feel like ascary topic to discuss.

Speaker 1 (48:39):
But is it ever one person who wants it more than
the other person?
And then is that like a whoahey, settle down.

Speaker 2 (48:45):
Yeah, I think that because a lot of people focus on
frequency and, in particular,you know, men tend to have
what's called spontaneous desire.
Right, there's two desire types, so men could be intimate
probably as often as as everyday, potentially Right, whereas
women are responsive desire.
And this is so important thatcouples really learn this,
because I think it's reallyimportant for men to learn about

(49:08):
how women operate.
What?
Why don't we just like we'renot going to sit on the couch
and just suddenly be like man,I'm turned on, I'm ready to go?

Speaker 1 (49:16):
Yeah, that's so tough .
That's not how women operateright and so.
That's why gay guys have it sogreat Okay.

Speaker 3 (49:23):
I don't have an opinion on that right.

Speaker 2 (49:25):
But I think just being able if if men, any men
are listening to this is to justtalk to your wife and really
understand, like, what does helpyou feel, like you desire
intimacy and so responsivedesire, is when you're really
responding to the environment,you're responding to the amount
of connection that you feel inthe relationship and also we're

(49:48):
sensual, right.
So we're not going to againjust spontaneously feel like it.
It's really because we've beenflirting.
You know, he's's been thinkingabout things like my love.
You can think about the love,languages or even a part of it,
but also sensual experiences.
So we don't have to go on awhole thing like that.
You can watch our reels onintimacy, but it's talk about it

(50:08):
.

Speaker 1 (50:09):
But also sometimes then the guys, you know, I feel
I talk to my wife about thissometimes, that there's, I feel
I talk to my wife about this,sometimes that there's, I know
the women want the whole romancething.
But then guys also, sometimes Ithink we look at it a couple
different ways.
One it's going to help me go tosleep, right, I know there's
the whole love thing, but I gotto be in bed and I want to be
asleep in 10 minutes.

Speaker 2 (50:27):
Let's do a quickie but then it feels transactional
to women.

Speaker 1 (50:29):
Right, but it I think it shouldn't.
It's okay, you got tocompromise sometimes.

Speaker 4 (50:34):
Well, it's just where the proactive communication you
know, comes in.
And so she's going to sharewith me the season that she's in
what has her feel desire andconnection.
We'll both do that and not likeit's a negotiation, but it's an
understanding that we there'smutual care and mutual desire to
meet those needs.

Speaker 3 (50:51):
So without that conversation, without that
understanding, understanding,then that's probably what breeds
dysfunction and resentment yeah, because you're not connected,
because it could it can be likewhat you're talking about, as
long as it's it's communicatedin a way that everybody knows
where everybody is right wherethe quickie comes from.

Speaker 4 (51:07):
For the guys, the quickie right and I think the
man there was so many commentslike so many unbelievable
opposite ends comments on thesevideos, on the one on the
intimacy video.

Speaker 1 (51:18):
Oh, my gosh.

Speaker 4 (51:19):
Yeah right, I can't even tell you I'm gonna go look,
some are like scary I have toeven hide them literally.

Speaker 2 (51:24):
I've had to hide some because I'm like this is so
toxic yeah

Speaker 1 (51:27):
oh, you mean like angry or just very unhealthy?

Speaker 2 (51:30):
I'm not gonna, I'm just saying, it's just unhealthy
perspectives that I wouldn'teven want people to read.
You know where it's yeah, Imean, I don't, I only do that
for the far extreme right.

Speaker 4 (51:38):
Oh sure yeah and you know, but there's, there's this
idea in between that men needsomething and women need a
different way and there's got tobe an accommodation.
But like, literally what'smissing in the whole thing is
like, have you even said that toyour partner, right?
It's kind of like what we saidin the beginning.
I tried to break up with herand it's like oh well, f you,

(51:58):
then I'm out and you just actlike you've had this shield up
the whole time.
That's how most I can see, mostof these, these comments about
these posts are the same way.
It's like oh, if you're notgoing to meet my need, then like
if you, I'll go find someoneelse, right?
and it's like but you're notgoing to look at how you're
communicating about this, howvulnerable you've been sharing,

(52:19):
how this this season isdifferent for you, and so, even
with all that said, it's so youknow, I can't go to her and say
here's what I need, regardlessof how I've treated her for the
last week, if I've been rude anddiminishing or distant, went
from zero to 60 on harshcomments like the whole week,

(52:39):
and now I'm like it's time foryour duty.
It's like what kind ofrelationship right?

Speaker 1 (52:44):
no, you're right, you're right, you're 100, but I
can't see you doing that no,exactly.

Speaker 4 (52:47):
Well, so it just comes down to that.
I like how what you said.

Speaker 3 (52:50):
It's time for your duty like you're all that's what
some, some comment literallyhow many people, how many people
actually like that's my right?

Speaker 2 (52:59):
oh, that is a perspective that some people
hold and they're not ourfollowers, they're not the
people that follow us, so that'sa post that's gone viral.
Uh, also, we have another onethat really struck a chord,
where it's about don't staymarried for the kids and we
actually, yeah, we reframe itand say fight fair for the kids,
communicate for the kids, breakthe cycles for the kids.
So to again just challenge thatwhole perspective of like let's

(53:22):
just tough it out and staytogether.
It's like no, do the work dothe work for them.

Speaker 1 (53:26):
Getting back, I want to get to the your, the
methodology of your social media, because it's so huge.
Do you do a post a day?
Yes, no matter what, is thathow it has to work?

Speaker 2 (53:35):
it not has to, I just have.
I'm the marketing person so werun the business together, but I
I just happen to be themarketing person and is a
creative expression for me, likeI'm not a good artist, I'm not
a good painter or anything likethat, and so it is like an
outlet for me.
I love words, I lovecommunicating through language,
and so I choose to do a postevery day but do you set a day

(53:58):
where you film all your content?
yeah, we do, yeah, we'll film,chop it up and then you drop.

Speaker 1 (54:03):
That's how it works.
I'm just trying to.
I just think it's sofascinating I want to know,
because it's it's you know, for,like me and my social media,
I'm shooting stuff.
I just oh, I have this and Ipost it.
I don't I really want to startto think about it and see how
especially your stuff's like sowell lit, it's so sounds so good
, it's really really well done.
Thank you that arcadia highschool did their job it wasn't
them.

Speaker 2 (54:22):
I loved arcadia, but it wasn't them.

Speaker 3 (54:24):
But it's interesting where you were when you started.
You weren't like we.
We tend to see this thefreemans, million followers,
polished content like wellthought out and we're blown away
.
Yep, but I think people need toalso understand where you
started with jerry roberts andthat book thing and then just

(54:44):
kind of nickel and diamond, yourvision, oh yeah, and you stayed
committed to it.
Um, I, I remember it, you guyswere woo, woo-woo.
We have 10,000 followers, andit was years.

Speaker 2 (54:57):
Yes, oh, so many years, years.
Oh, I mean, it just isconsistency, and I'm a big
person of I observe.
I observe what's landing,what's resonating, and then I
just keep doing that and keepkind of refining it.
So I'm just a big observationalperson.

Speaker 1 (55:13):
There's a lot of things I see on social media, I
think where things areoverproduced.
And it's like it's not good,like your stuff is perfect.

Speaker 2 (55:20):
It's really really good we're in our pajamas
sometimes, you know, because wewant it to be real, like this is
what has what couplesexperience behind closed doors
at home.
They're in their pajamas, or wejust make it like real life.

Speaker 1 (55:33):
So you do a post a day, and what about stories?
Is that I?

Speaker 2 (55:36):
do one a day.
We just don't have the time to,like, do a ton of let me show
my whole life but, you just doone a day, yeah?
And I mean I think, yeah, Idon't know why Just all.
I'm a mom and we run a bigbusiness now, and so I just
Speaking about how?

Speaker 1 (55:51):
about parenting now?
So you're a new mom, newparents.
How do you deal with that asfar as, like, you're with the
baby?
No, you're with the baby, Likeyou know.
Like, how do you?
Oh, she's doing too much, I'mnot doing enough.
Is that a problem in arelationship as well?

Speaker 2 (56:04):
Well, it's changed because so her first year of
life so she's almost four nowHer first year of life, we had a
nanny at the house, us.
So that was really nice becausewe would just work a little bit
and then I'd be with her andwe'd be with her, and so it was
very much like working and beingwith her and then eventually,

(56:25):
you know, felt like she wasready for an external
environment and so we really tryto consolidate our work hours.
I think the older she gets, themore time we want with her.
You know, it's like, oh my gosh, she's growing so fast, and so
our goal, even next year, islike let's shorten our work days
even more.
You know, that's our goal andwe even we came up with talking
about vision, our new vision.
So he just turned 40.
So 10 years from now he'll be50.

(56:46):
And we said let's get to thepoint by the time you're 50,
where we literally have thechoice to work or not, because
what's cool?
So we had kids a little bitlater in life.
I was just shy of being ageriatric mother at 35, right,
and so, uh, when she's ateenager, like we want to be
able to just travel with her,right, have like work a little

(57:09):
bit work when we want to.
So that's our, our new visionthat excites us do you guys do
vision boards, you do the wehave.
We used to do that a lot more,like with the pictures and
things like that.
Now it's more like we justwrite it out you write down your
goals, talk about it yep.
Talk about the vision.
What's?

Speaker 1 (57:23):
it look like oh, it does.

Speaker 2 (57:25):
Yeah, it's important.
Otherwise it kind of just feelslike you're just doing stuff
rather than you're doing thingsthat are on track to some vision
.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (57:39):
Psychology has a phrase that says your aim
creates the frame.
So whatever you aim at in lifecreates the perspective that you
see anything so it's what I'maiming for determines whether I
see Walter as an opponent or asa teammate, or if any challenge
I face is an obstacle or is thisgoing to be an opportunity.

(58:01):
So there's like a lot ofpsychology that literally, how
our cognition works, how ourperception works, is correlated
to what we're aiming forUnderstanding what we aim for,
not just from a consciousperspective, because that's
another thing in marriage, right, it's like you can talk to
husbands and it's like, well,what do you actually value?
Oh, I value family.
It's like, okay, tell me aboutyour week.

(58:22):
Well, I work 80 hours a weekand I'm on my phone, I'm at home
.
It's like you're not valuingfamily.
It's like you're providingprobably, yes, but you might
value status and you might valueyour network a lot more than
actual time with your family,right.
So our top level idea of whatwe value is not the real

(58:43):
subconscious value, because thatdrives all of your action and
it creates how you perceive anyobject or any person in your
life.
Is this moving me towards oraway, the thing I actually want?

Speaker 3 (58:56):
And for all of us like.

Speaker 4 (58:57):
Being honest about what we really want and what we
value is a hard conversation byitself.
Is there a book?

Speaker 1 (59:02):
that you guys both love Gosh so many.
We've read so manyself-development books.

Speaker 2 (59:08):
One of my favorite is the Big Leap.
It's a really great identitybook.
I love that one.
And then a parenting book.
I love Good Inside.
That's my girl crush, Dr Becky.
What would you say is one ofyour favorites recently?

Speaker 4 (59:21):
I mean personally in this thread, like I love.
I do love Jordan Peterson.
Some of his, some of his booksare dense, though you know, so
you got to get, you got to findthe right one for what you're
trying to get.
But I've learned a lot from himand psychology and that's kind
of where the your aim createsthe frame.

Speaker 1 (59:41):
What about as far as in your field Like, do you guys
believe?

Speaker 2 (59:43):
in Gottman's all got John Gottman stuff.
Oh yeah, we love the Gottman's.
I mean, obviously they're likethe godparents in this industry,
so we completely respect.
We refer to their content Inparents in this industry, so we
completely respect.
We refer to their content inour last book.
We refer to them, um, and talkabout them, so we absolutely
love them in the marriage space,what's kind of cool is like
we're one of the biggest youknow to be, which is kind of
surreal, and and people come toour workshops and I this blew me

(01:00:04):
away like I would have neveranticipated.
They say like I think of you onthe level of the gotmans and
that's great that's.

Speaker 1 (01:00:10):
I mean, we don't see ourselves that way at some point
, right?

Speaker 2 (01:00:13):
Yeah, yeah, potentially.

Speaker 4 (01:00:15):
But there's a lot of we're friends with a lot of
people in this space, um, but wejust, I think, people number
one.

Speaker 2 (01:00:21):
They resonate with us because we're a husband and
wife team, so they get the maleand female perspective of things
, as opposed to just one person.
And we're just very real.
We don't try to be like, oh,we're perfect.
You know some accounts thataren't.
They're just more like contentcreators.
They'll like do these elaborate?

(01:00:45):
You know rose petals to the bedand these candles lit
everywhere and it's like, yeah,that might get likes and views,
but it's not what's happeningevery day.
That's not what real life lookslike.
So people appreciate that wetalk about what does staying
connected look like when you'rebusy, when you're in the
trenches of parenting, and so Ithink people appreciate that
it's realistic, authentic andthat we also challenge people

(01:01:06):
too, especially in our podcastLike we'll definitely challenge
people on there there's not alot of couples.

Speaker 4 (01:01:11):
I don't even suggest running a business with your
partner to everyone.
It's not an easy thing to do,and there's just not a lot of
people that love marriagecoaching as much as we do.
I mean, what?
What couple can you find wantsto dedicate their life to
marriage skills and tools anddoing that together and being
around each other 24 7 and beparents like we, literally like

(01:01:34):
you couldn't be around yourpartner more than we're around.

Speaker 1 (01:01:37):
So can you go away and decompress?
Can you go on vacation togetherand let it go?
Or are you working on it allthe time?

Speaker 2 (01:01:44):
no, we intentionally, like our anniversary trip,
we're doing a bucket list trip.
We're going to banff, canada.
Have you ever been?

Speaker 1 (01:01:50):
I have not.

Speaker 2 (01:01:50):
My father's been many times, it's just like, like oh,
it looks amazing, look it up.
Right, we're staying at acastle on the base of a mountain
, and so we even were talkingabout it.
We're big on talking aboutexpectations ahead of time any
trip, family trips and so wesaid, you know, hey, let's
really make sure we're notworking.
We're not.

Speaker 4 (01:02:09):
She did set the expectation that, but we are
going to get a photographer forone day.
We got to shoot some photos.

Speaker 1 (01:02:16):
Oh yeah, sure.

Speaker 4 (01:02:18):
She said about five times a day we're going to take
a photo.

Speaker 3 (01:02:20):
I didn't say five.

Speaker 4 (01:02:23):
But that's a part of the proactive communication too,
right?
We could say and have theunexpressed expectation that
we're just going to leave it alland we're going to go.
You know, have fun.

Speaker 3 (01:02:35):
But you're also content creators too, so when
you're there, I think it'simportant to show that side of
that as well to you know.
Grab some snippets.

Speaker 1 (01:02:46):
Wait, let me ask you I'm sorry I'm asking all these
questions on like how do youdeal with relationships?
Like, say, she wants to gogirls' night out and she wants
you to come, or couples' babyshowers.
And like, are you both in ondoing everything together?
Or it's like no, you go outwith your girlfriends, I'll stay
home.

Speaker 2 (01:03:04):
Oh, we definitely do things apart.
I mean, this week is one of mybest friend's birthday, so I'm
going to do a whole spa day.
He meets with guys at leastonce a month.

Speaker 4 (01:03:14):
He's got this guys group of friends or or therapy
things um no, it's kind of likesome of the groups you guys have
been in.
I have a small men's group ofeight guys.
I have relationships with allthem, some friends, some were
kind of in the network, but theyall live in gilbert and so we
get together once a month sowe've.

Speaker 2 (01:03:33):
So you make it important to have guy night out
and girl night out oh yeah,absolutely, and we even just
recently talked about, you know,hey, let's each find in the
next year a conference orretreat that we each want to go
to.
That's an individual thing.

Speaker 1 (01:03:45):
So I mean at time, apart definitely where he would
go somewhere by himself and yougo, oh wow.

Speaker 2 (01:03:50):
Yeah, I think those times apart.

Speaker 4 (01:03:51):
We're in like a very particular book writing phase
but, like next year, we'reobviously going to be promoting
this new book.
But it's also as we look forour vision and the season that
we've been in.
We've both been saying it isthat season for me to find a
men's group to be a member ofand go to events, many of which

(01:04:13):
you know, walter, have beenpassing to me that you might be
a part of too.
Johnson wants to find a greatgroup of women's collective to
be a part of and go to events,and so I think 2026, as much as
we'll be promoting this new book, we're going to be through this
writing phase and, like,probably take more personal time
again, because it's it's it'sthe season we can't came out of

(01:04:34):
and what we feel this new seasonis calling us into is for me to
get more time with men, do alittle bit more on my own and
and similar for her how do youguys handle like each other when
it comes to birthdays, likedoes she want big presents and
big dinner, or are you low-key?

Speaker 1 (01:04:50):
how's that work?

Speaker 4 (01:04:50):
depends on the the birthday I just had, my 40th.
Was that a big one?
It was.
Yeah, it was a surprise Iplanned a trip california we had
some other couples that wentwith us.

Speaker 2 (01:05:00):
I went all out saying so.
He didn't know the location orwhat we were doing, and I rented
a crazy cool cliffside mansionfor us and eight other friends.
I hired a chef.
We went on a boat.

Speaker 4 (01:05:13):
Wow, I really I spoiled you, right?
You like that stuff For the40th?
Yeah, I loved it, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:05:18):
Yeah yeah.
And then I maybe not.

Speaker 4 (01:05:19):
Maybe not every birthday.
Right, yeah, we're not big oneverything I like to have some
buy-in on some of the things.

Speaker 2 (01:05:24):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:05:25):
And what about for you?
Like what's are you, is yourlove language, acts of service?
Is it gifts?

Speaker 2 (01:05:30):
Definitely acts of service makes a big difference.
I do love gifts.
I would need to retake the testnow to see what makes a
difference.
I think it is.
For me, what makes me reallyfeel connected is just little
check-ins, little emotionalcheck-ins, but I am looking
forward to our 10-year weddinganniversary, which we're also
going all out for.

(01:05:51):
We have talked about my 40th,which will be in 2027, making
that a big trip.

Speaker 4 (01:05:56):
So we like to focus on the big milestones.
There's a good point here,though, too, for the listeners.
We're all not just like onefixed human being, right?
It's like you go throughexperiences, you have challenges
, you learn, you become adifferent person.
Your partner's doing the samething, so you're having to
remake really who each other are.
I think you need to.
If you don't recognize that,then you live into this fantasy

(01:06:19):
that you're with the same person.
It becomes boring, but you gotto recognize that there's growth
happening over there for thatperson.
So even with love languages Iso I had a traumatic birth
experience, and so my physicaltouch, love language, is
literally the lowest it couldpossibly be, to the point of
like I didn't even like to betouched.
So I could say that my lovelanguage is definitely not

(01:06:42):
physical touch.
Or even someone else that saysit's middle of the road.
Try not touching your partnerfor a year and see if physical
touch doesn't become animportant thing for them.
I was going to say I thinkthose can change too Totally A
hundred percent.

Speaker 1 (01:06:55):
Like so would you say ?
You're not the type of personthat's going to hold hands in a
movie.

Speaker 4 (01:06:59):
Not in the past, but when I know it's important to my
partner and physical affectionis important to a relationship.
It's like I need tointentionally go beyond what I
think.

Speaker 1 (01:07:08):
Because you know what's important to her.

Speaker 2 (01:07:16):
So you have to compromise and also, even just
if you think about it sometimes,when so talking about coming
home and greeting your partner,like, try this the next time you
see your wife this evening,rather than just the quick peck
or quick hug, hold each otherfor several seconds and you
release oxytocin, right, you?
There's something that happensin our bodies when we are really
holding someone, so it's just,it's good for brain chemistry,

(01:07:37):
your body.
I've said it to my wife before.

Speaker 1 (01:07:39):
At night, when we're in bed, it's like, hey, this
doesn't have to be about sex, Ijust let's just hold each other
for a little bit and it just,and I feel like it's like a
iphone battery charger yeah,because your body is literally
feeling bonded with someone.
When you say you had atraumatic birth experience, are
you talking about actually birthlike the day you were born?
Something happened, oh yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:07:58):
Yeah, I was born six weeks early.
I was only four pounds.
I wasn't breathing so they hadto put me immediately on
respirators and I had a whoopingcough.
I was blue and you think thatbecause of that day that's
affected you as an adult I thinkand I didn't put it together
till later in my life but Ireally never liked being touched

(01:08:18):
.
And then a friend of mine waslike, well, wait, tell me about
your birth again.
And she was like that makes somuch sense.
Oh my gosh, it does make sense.
It's like if you were a souland you came into this world and
the very first experience youhad was physical pain being
jabbed with needles andrespirators would probably do

(01:08:39):
something to you.
And I was like, wow, Iliterally never thought about
that.

Speaker 1 (01:08:42):
How about your brother?
Did he have a birth similar ordid he?

Speaker 4 (01:08:47):
Oh no, he had a fine birth.

Speaker 1 (01:08:49):
So he likes being touched, he likes being hugged
and stuff like that.

Speaker 4 (01:08:54):
He's got different things, some anger things that I
think he's working through.

Speaker 2 (01:08:59):
We all have our things.

Speaker 3 (01:09:02):
You do the couples workshop.
What other tools do people haveavailable to access the Freeman
magic?

Speaker 2 (01:09:13):
everything ranging from we have 30-day couples,
challenges, which we're atprobably 45 000 couples now have
done that no kidding yeah wehave online guides.
We have online web classes.
There's a wait list for workingwith us privately, but that's
available.
So we try to have like we meetpeople where they're at at

(01:09:33):
different levels, right, whetherthey just want something simple
.
So you're doing private coachingyeah, yeah, we scale that down
though more and more as we likework on our book and other
things like that.
Yeah, but that I I don't everwant to go to no private
coaching, because that's how wereally get such a pulse on what
couples are dealing with rightand stay really plugged in and
keep sharpening our skills.

(01:09:54):
So we really enjoy that still.

Speaker 1 (01:09:56):
How about dealing with menopause and hormone
issues and that stuff?
Are you guys up to date in that?

Speaker 2 (01:10:02):
Oh, yeah, that's been a part.
We just did an intimacy serieson our podcast and we did an
episode where we talked aboutthat a little bit, and then I'm
actually having a guest doctoron our show in the coming weeks
where we'll talk about thatspecifically.
And I just had my hormonestested.
So I wanted to just reallylearn, even like before
perimenopause officially, youknow, begins and go through that

(01:10:25):
stage.
So I'm huge on like starting totalk to both men and women,
understanding how their hormoneschanging are impacting them.
And again, that's part of theopen communication is we are
aging, so let's make sure we'relearning about it, talking about
it.

Speaker 1 (01:10:39):
That's a tough thing to go through when you're going
through that both.
Oh, yeah, asking, life with thehormones, because they don't
really happen at the same time.
Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 (01:10:47):
And then you know the crying yes yeah, we can be
hormonal, for sure, oh I wastalking about me.

Speaker 3 (01:10:54):
Oh, you're the one crying.
I'm just kidding.
I'm just kidding.

Speaker 2 (01:10:57):
Yeah, I mean we want to talk about all of that right,
All the things that peoplereally deal with, including when
they become empty nesters, andall the real issues.
We don't talk about that a lot,right.
We actually don't acceptclients where that has happened,
um, because they really need towork with a specialist who

(01:11:17):
focuses on that, because it issuch like a niche challenge,
right, and so that just isn'tour main specialty.

Speaker 1 (01:11:26):
Yeah, we have you uh watched or listened to esther
perel?

Speaker 2 (01:11:29):
oh yeah, I yeah, I love her.
She's great right?
I'd like to meet her someday,oh same.

Speaker 1 (01:11:33):
She's amazing yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:11:34):
She has a lot of really powerful insights and
just the human experience.
Yeah, there's so many amazingpeople out there there are.
Funny enough, speaking oflistening to things, this is a
full circle moment, because Ilistened to you in high school
in the car driving.
Listen to my music, John Jay,so this is pretty cool.
Now, a couple decades later,Well, thank you.

Speaker 4 (01:11:55):
Yeah, way to be consistent.

Speaker 1 (01:11:56):
Yeah, it speaks to your consistency too, and now
here you are, a listener of mine, and now I'm taking all this
stuff you guys said and go tellmy wife I need to get home.

Speaker 2 (01:12:06):
Isn't that funny.
You can be like she listened tome when she was in high school.

Speaker 1 (01:12:09):
Somehow I be like she listened to me when she was in
high school.

Speaker 2 (01:12:11):
Somehow I could have influenced what happened, yeah,
your career somehow ohdefinitely, yeah, there's always
an influence well, thanks forcoming on our podcast it was
really cool, really cool to pickyour brains on stuff like that.

Speaker 1 (01:12:22):
You know it's like to think about it because we were
talking to them aboutrelationships, but also I was
fascinated by the social mediapart of it.
Yeah, I mean, you guys areamazing.
Good luck to you guys.
Thank you so much, and to youguys Thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:12:31):
Thank you so much.
I mean you're consistent.
You've been doing this a longtime.
That's what it's all about,right?
It's like not expecting instantsuccess, really being
consistent over a long period oftime.

Speaker 1 (01:12:41):
I just signed for five more years with iHeart.

Speaker 2 (01:12:44):
Did you?

Speaker 1 (01:12:44):
Yeah, and it's actually because because of him.
Isn't that weird?

Speaker 2 (01:12:48):
What do you mean?
Tell us more.

Speaker 1 (01:12:50):
He invited me to a party that I would have never
gone to in a million years andin fact my wife there's no one
else my wife's like where areyou going?
I go, walter invited me to thisthing and she's like why'd you
say yes?
Because I normally would nevergo to?
And I talked to this personthat was at the party and they

(01:13:18):
said they'd handle it for me andthey put together the best deal
I've ever had.

Speaker 2 (01:13:20):
Oh, amazing, congratulations.
He's like that, walter's justsuch a champion for people.
He's like.
He's like.
I'm trying to look for how Ican help everyone.

Speaker 1 (01:13:30):
And then this guy training to run a hundred mile
race.
What the hell's wrong with you?
And then and then did it.
It didn't something happened.
My wife said like you got, youdidn't make something happen,
you got hurt or something or no.

Speaker 3 (01:13:43):
No, missed the cutoff at the halfway point.

Speaker 1 (01:13:45):
So you ran 50 miles and they're like hey, sorry.

Speaker 3 (01:13:48):
Yeah, no, you can't continue.
You don't make the cutoff, youdon't continue.
Wow, but you went for it.

Speaker 1 (01:13:53):
Were you sore after 50 miles?
No, you're incredible.

Speaker 2 (01:13:56):
I know he is.
You're incredible yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:13:58):
Well, thank you for putting this together too, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:14:00):
No no.

Speaker 1 (01:14:09):
This is where these guys are next level.
Yeah, Meet the.

Speaker 2 (01:14:11):
Freemans, and that's also our website URL.

Speaker 1 (01:14:14):
Oh good.

Speaker 2 (01:14:18):
And so we can't announce the official title of
our book yet, because we'regoing to do a really fun, cool,
special announcement thing.
But be on the lookout for that.

Speaker 1 (01:14:23):
We'll have to come back when we're.

Speaker 2 (01:14:24):
I'm telling my stories right now.
Hey, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:14:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:14:30):
Yeah, but we'll have to come back and talk about that
.

Speaker 3 (01:14:34):
Let's go.
This is great.

Speaker 1 (01:14:42):
Thank you for having us.
Okay, so welcome to our podcast.
This is a little bit differenttoday, because this podcast is a
spinoff of our radio show.