Call Me Daddy: Dominatrixes Tell All

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Oh my God, the best times I've had in sessions is
when we're doing a serious scenebut like, of course we we've
built so much trust and rapportthat I'll just say whatever
stupid thing that comes up to myhead and we we have to stop the
scene for a solid five minutesbecause he's laughing.
I'm pressing my face a whiletrying not to cackle because I'm

(00:21):
not trying to like, but he'slike.
So one of one of the times thatthis happened was like I'm
leaning in like his he's facedown into the table because like
it's an easy position for um,an easy and comfortable starter
position for a new guest, um,and I'm just like dragging my
sharp nails on his back.
He's getting the shivers and Ilike lean in close to his ear

(00:44):
and I'm like you ready for me totake your behind, man, fuck,
sorry, I can't.
I can't even keep a straightface now, but like oh my god,
wow so now whenever I I can'tnot use that joke now I I try

(01:06):
not to do it in the middle ofthe session, I'll do it in the
beginning, when we're just liketalking consent and stuff.
I was like so this is going tobe our first real session, I'll
be taking your behind.
And it provides that levitythat allows us to be comfortable
with each other because they'rebeing so vulnerable with us, so

(01:27):
vulnerable.

Speaker 2 (01:28):
Welcome to the Juicy Sex Podcast, where my friends
and I have raw, unfiltered andhilarious conversations about
all things sex.
I'm Alisa Eddy, the founder andCEO of Juicy Sexual Wellness,
where we try the toys and helpyou find the right one for you.
Now on to the podcast.

(01:48):
Okay, welcome to the Juicy SexPodcast.
Today, we are going to betalking with a notable
dominatrix and we're going to betalking about sex work.
So I want to set intentions atthe beginning of this episode.
At Juicy, we believe sex workis real work, and our guest is

(02:12):
an independent, self-employedsex worker who does legal
sensual body work.
We support her right to do soand celebrate the fabulous life
she lives because of it.
So I just want to make thatreal clear, All right, so my
very special guest is Miss ValEldridge.

Speaker 1 (02:30):
Thank you so much for having me on your podcast.
I am so excited to answer somany of these questions and
share my answers, because inanswering these questions it
made me really think about mypractice and I learned a lot
about myself just reading thesequestions you wrote out for me.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
Oh, awesome, you bet I'm excited to have this
conversation too.
Okay, so, first of all, who areyou in the world of sex work?
What is it that?

Speaker 1 (02:55):
you do.
So my persona, my publicpersona, is Val Eldridge.
In my personal life I doactually go as Val, so my
personal identity and my workidentity have started to meld
together.
But when I'm called MissEldritch or when the Eldritch is
mentioned, then I am very muchin my sensual domina role.

Speaker 2 (03:19):
Ah, okay, sensual domina.
Okay, can you tell us a littlebit about what that?

Speaker 1 (03:22):
means so the common word that I hear label is
dominatrix.
And to me it is a very powerfullabel, it is a very powerful
role, but it didn't feel like itfit well with my persona, my
intentions, and that's why Itook on the name Domina or the
title Domina, because it's stillvery much in the vein.
I still take power in thedynamic with my clients, but it

(03:47):
is a softer role.
So I took out that TRIX, whichmakes it that really hard word,
but it's still very much asimilar role.

Speaker 2 (03:57):
Yeah, makes sense, okay, so how long have you been
doing?

Speaker 1 (03:59):
this Officially according to my taxes, three
years.
I have filed taxes three yearsnow and I started in Denver
doing before you got starteddoing this.

(04:25):
So, I have dabbled in a lot ofcorporate jobs or like business
development, pharmaceuticals andproperty management, all over
the place, because I reallycouldn't find where I could use
my skill sets like this randomset of people skills, business

(04:47):
acumen and sales, I guess and Inever really found it in
corporate.
I felt like I was just pushingbuttons or going to meetings and
I never got to express thecreativity that I worked so hard
to develop in school.
And so when I was basicallyfired from my property

(05:12):
management role during COVIDbecause who needs a property
manager when you're not sellingany properties?
Fair enough, yeah, it washonestly one of the best moments
of my life.

Speaker 2 (05:22):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (05:23):
Well, that's amazing Because it was freedom, like I
didn't.
I was forced out on my own twofeet, basically.
So it's like yeah, I don't wantto go back to corporate right
now.
It's COVID, like, what am Igoing to do?

Speaker 2 (05:34):
Yeah, oh, you turn lemons into lemonade.
All right, perfect.
So one of the things that youdo in your practice is something
called full body sensualmassage.
Can you tell us what that is?

Speaker 1 (05:47):
Of course.
So the standard definition thatyou'll find online, or most
people will describe it as it'susually one hour massage that
focuses on sensual touch and thegoal is to elicit a climax by
the end of the session.
There is no one specificmassage style used by
practitioners.
Personally, I have trained inAyurvedic massage.

(06:09):
I do not have a massage license.
I what's it called?
Do not promote myself as amasseuse, but more focus on that
sensual touch, the body workaspect of it.
And for Ayurvedic, I learned itin India while I was just
backpacking around and I foundthat that really resonated with

(06:31):
me because it takes on a veryholistic approach to massage.
So deep tissue Swedish sportit's all about getting the knots
out, whereas Ayurvedic wasrelieving emotional stress as
well as the physical stress,because the knots we keep in our
body aren't always from like aninjury or from like.
It's usually like holdingtension, like we're stressed, so

(06:51):
we're like scratching ourshoulders.
So when I started receivingAyurvedic massage in India, it
helped me so, so much and I wasso excited to share that with
people.
And, mind you, I learnedAyurvedic almost a decade before
I started this practice.
Oh really, yeah Cool, it justall started coming together All

(07:12):
these random skill sets that Ilearned over time just made
sense for me to pursue full bodycentral massage.

Speaker 2 (07:20):
Oh, wow, that's really cool.
So it was a collection ofexperiences that came to some
kind of synergistic moment inyour life.
Yeah, that's really awesome.
Okay, so a big question what isdominatrix or sensual domina
work for you?
What does it mean to?

Speaker 1 (07:37):
you means to take care of my guests, like I
genuinely care about the peoplewho come to see me.
Um, I saw and learned in anagency um, many styles of
domination because we weren'ttrained.
In this agency it was a bunchof women who came together and

(07:58):
they were given a room to workin, tools to work with and, um,
basically a client list that wasnot their own.
So I would get picked out aslike, oh, I'll take the Asian
one, and I was like that's not agood way to pick it up.
Oh, no, right, if you don'tknow your dom's name, it's kind
of a weird vibe.

(08:18):
But learning in that agencyallowed me to pick up and see
all these different styles atonce and just grab what really
resonated with me, which wascaring for my guests, making
them have a safe space toexplore these interesting kinks,
fantasies or just types oftouch that they might not get in

(08:38):
their personal lives, thatthey've always wanted to explore
or know that they're deeplymissing.
And I wanted to do it in a safeand ethical way because I have
seen and experienced a range ofkinks, or just like consulted
with my guests about the kinksthat they want to explore, and I

(09:00):
like to keep my practice fairlyon the softer, safer side.
So anything where it puts riskbiohazard risk, health risk,
just anatomical risk, becausesometimes these restraints or
these plays can be reallydangerous.
So I try to minimize that andfocus more on the psychological

(09:23):
domination of power exchange.
Those are my bread and butterwhen I dominate.

Speaker 2 (09:28):
Okay, amazing, okay, that makes a lot of sense.
So I'm curious how you see yourrole in terms of people and
whether or not they're in arelationship with somebody else.
Do you see yourself as being ina relationship with your
clients?

Speaker 1 (09:51):
That's an interesting question, actually, because
that's making me think about therelationship I have with them.
So I have a relationship withthem.
You have to right.
This is such a deeply intimatemoment.
I have guests who see me everyweek, sometimes twice a week,
and I know everything abouttheir family, their spouse,
their childhood.

(10:12):
So how can I not have this deep, intimate relationship if I
wasn't listening to them?
So I I do believe what Iactually tell them this, this is
what I tell them is that whenthey're there with me, I love
them.
Sorry, I haven't said that toanyone other than my clients,

(10:34):
but and it's a different kind oflove.
It's not like romantic love.
It's the love that you, like amother, cares for their child.
It's truly like I want.
Their well-being is soimportant to me in that time.
But it's also a love that hasno expectations.
If they see me once, they seeme every week, if they see me

(10:54):
for the rest of my life, therest of their life, like I'm
just happy for each moment Ihave with them.
And that I will pour my loveinto the moments I have with
them and of course, I have setboundaries.
I'm like, ok, this is the timewe have.
I can't pour any more love intoyou in this session or I will
not have enough for everyoneelse.
I have to be careful with thatlove.

(11:15):
But by allowing myself to loveto care about my guests, I feel
like it's made my practicesomething sustainable for me and
something really meaningful forthe people that do see me.

Speaker 2 (11:30):
That is so interesting.
I think that's really cool.
I think that is like.
That definitely makes it muchmore sustainable and more
fulfilling for you, probably atthe end of the day, you know.

Speaker 1 (11:47):
Because growing up I was taught that love is just for
your family and your directpartner and a monogamous partner
.
It wasn't even to friends, likemy family never said I love you
to their friends, albeit, it wasa big family, so there was a
lot of people to love in thefamily.
But when I started learningthrough my practice that love

(12:12):
comes in many forms and can beshared so easily and so
carefully Because, like again, Ican't like show too much love
because then that's setting awrong expectation for them, but
by caring it makes it a realexperience Whereas I saw
co-workers at the agency who didit purely for money and some

(12:37):
people have to, like they needto do the work for the money but
there was a distinct differencebetween the people who loved it
for the craft and for the loveof the guests versus the ones
who just saw it as like a clockin, clock out situation.

Speaker 2 (12:50):
Oh, definitely.
Yeah, I can.
I can definitely see that I cansay so.
This is my first time talkingabout this on the podcast, but I
have actually done a little bitof dominatrix work as an online
dom, um, and so I didn't do itfor long, I did it for a few

(13:10):
months.
It was a really interestingexperience.
It was fucking fascinating andI'm really glad I did it, um,
and I I think, uh, I can see howhaving that kind of emotional
generosity could make it moresustainable.

(13:30):
I didn't get to the point whereI had to do that, but I
definitely.

Speaker 1 (13:34):
It's hard digitally.
It is hard digitally.

Speaker 2 (13:36):
It's a very different beast.
You can't hold their hands.

Speaker 1 (13:40):
You can't.

Speaker 2 (13:41):
You can't look them in the eyes.
No, yeah, exactly, it's reallydifferent.
But yeah, so that is for theaudience.
That is something that I havedone.
That was a really interestingtime in my life and I still
identify as someone who's a sexworker because of that and
there's a limited amount ofexperience and understanding I
have.
But part of our conversation isgoing to be a little bit of

(14:02):
comparing notes.
So yeah, just for everybody toknow.

Speaker 1 (14:07):
I would actually like to posit that when you do your
consent talk because we talkedabout it before, we talked about
your practice before yourconsent talks are a form of love
.
It's a form of care, becauseI've had doms who don't do the
consent talk and the lack oflove and care there is so

(14:29):
tangible versus when they docare.
Yeah, it's not even just aprofessional thing.
It's like you cared about theirwell-being.

Speaker 2 (14:35):
It's caring about people.
I think so for me when doingdominatrix work, it was really
online.
It was really important to me tofind out from people what their
boundaries were, where theydidn't want me to go
psychologically, because a lotof the work I did was
humiliation work, and that'ssome deep shit that you're
working with, and so it reallymattered to me to be triggering

(14:59):
the places that they wantedtriggered, but not the places
that would cut them to the whitemeat, you know.
So I think it's super important.
But what I was surprised by,you know, as a person who has
some real life kink experiencein doing this online dominatrix
work, people were reallysurprised that I was asking to
have consent talks with them.

(15:19):
People were really surprisedthat I was asking to have
consent talks with them.
They were like what do you mean?
I don't understand.
I just want you to tell me whatto do.
And I had to, like, patientlyexplain yeah, that's not how it
works.
I want this to be somethingthat's safe for you and that,
where you can, you can actuallyrelease yourself to the
experience if you know that I'mnot going to go places that are

(15:41):
going to damage you, right?
So that part of it definitelymattered to me for sure.
So yeah, I think that's aninteresting.

Speaker 1 (15:49):
How did you evolve that part of your practice?
As the as time went on, did yourefine it?

Speaker 2 (15:58):
I did.
At first I didn't realize thatit was missing, except that I
found myself pausing in themiddle of a session like, hey,
is it OK if I go here?
Is it OK if I say this?
Is it OK if I say that?
And they're like, why are youasking me?
And I'm like, well, because,shit, we didn't have a consent.
Talk, right.
And so, knowing as much as I doin real life, shit about

(16:20):
consent, I was like fuck man, Ihave to add that in.
About consent, I was like fuckman, I have to add that in.
And it's a little trickybecause with online work,
they're coming to you and theyexpect results really fast and
they want you to like start toget them turned on really fast.
And so I had to take the riskof being like we're going to
pause and have this conversationand fill this out, and, yes,

(16:40):
you're going to get charged bythe minute for it, but if you
can just comply quickly and do,what.
I ask of you, then everythingwill be fine.
But yeah, so it was interesting.
I did that, did definitelyevolve for me and I learned at
first there wasn't enough of it,then there was a little bit too
much of it and then I kind ofhit like a stride where I felt
like I could feel people out alittle better and I developed

(17:04):
like certain talking points thatI'd be like what about this,
what about this, what about this, especially when it comes to
humiliation?
Are these things that are okaywith you if I bring them up when
you're in a more vulnerablesubspace and they could say yes
or no?

Speaker 1 (17:17):
Did you find these practices on an online resource
at all?
Like, where were you learningthese things?
Or is it just through your ownpractice, just through?

Speaker 2 (17:26):
my own real life practice with consent, and so
trying to apply that to theonline context was.
I was trying to do the best Icould.
I did not find examples ofother people doing it.
I was Googling it and trying,oh my God, god.

Speaker 1 (17:44):
So that was my issue was like, okay, I could easily
google how to spank someone,yeah, but how do I google how to
what's it called?
Talk to them about the emotionsbehind their spankings?
Um, and that's why, um, Iapplaud you for going digital,
because I think it's infinitelyharder than meeting someone in

(18:08):
person, and having that talk.
Because I'm still strugglingthrough that, like I'll do 30
minute coffee dates where I justget to know them as a person,
and then we have the in-personin my dungeon session talk, and
even then it's like pullingteeth with some of them.
It is yeah and like not in afun kinky way no, I agree, that

(18:31):
was.

Speaker 2 (18:31):
I experienced that too.
I found that when I would say,for example, um, when it comes
to humiliation, um, gay stuff isa thing that can be really
humiliating for men and thatthat I find interesting and that
can be a turn on for me to talkabout or engage in, and so I
would ask, like, is it OK if Ibring up this kind of thing or

(18:53):
tell you that you have to dosomething that's in this
category?
And it was really hard forpeople to say yes or no, because
what's tricky is they're comingto you as a dom because they
don't want to have to makedecisions.
However, to ethically engage,yeah, we have to get some shit
on the record before we start,and so, uh, that was, that was a

(19:17):
tricky, did?

Speaker 1 (19:18):
you get a lot of repeats, because I feel like you
can figure that stuff outslowly if you do one new trigger
or maybe two or three newtriggers each session, but when
they're only coming for onesession, like you have one hour
to fill.

Speaker 2 (19:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:35):
Like you have to bust out a bunch of stuff.

Speaker 2 (19:38):
Yeah, exactly yeah, and you have to be creative, it
has to be new, it has to benewer than it was before.
I had some repeats, but Ididn't do it long enough to have
a ton of them, so I think thatwas made it a little extra
challenging, because neither ofus were sure why to invest in
the conversation to some extent,like are we ever going to talk
again?
I don't know someonepsychologically when they're in

(20:06):
a subspace if I don't know whattriggers are a no-go or which
ones are like the sweet spotwhere they want you to hit that
and it's like hurts.
So good, right.

Speaker 1 (20:11):
Like that's part of it too, and it sounds like
you're conscientious about thepower you have.
You genuinely know how muchpower you have, and a lot of sex
workers, I believe, don'tunderstand how much agency and
how much power they have intheir meetings with these
clients and, in one hand, likethey should know, because that

(20:34):
would make them feel a lot moresecure.
I think a lot of sex workers Iknow when I first started didn't
know how much power I had and Ifelt like I was at the whims of
my clients.

Speaker 2 (20:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (20:42):
And, on the other hand, it's important for them to
know, because we can do a lotof damage.

Speaker 2 (20:47):
We can we can do a lot of damage.
We can, and I think and one ofthe things that struck me early
on that was part of whatencouraged me to do this was
both a I felt like I didn't havea roadmap when I was engaging
them.
That is more what I'm used toin real life stuff.

Speaker 1 (21:02):
OK so I have this crazy thought that, like isn't
it crazy that there'll be like ahow, like a dummy's guide to
open a hot dog stand?
But god forbid, like weunderstand how sex work works um
, the oldest profession in theworld like this has been
happening for forever, sincelike the beginning of humankind

(21:26):
yes, yes absolutely.
Um, and yet penguins do it,they'll, they'll do a strip
dance for pretty shiny rocks,like sex work is a natural
process or a natural thing, andthe resources out there are so
few and far between and I willacknowledge I am guilty, like I
am accumulating all thisknowledge and I want to share.

(21:49):
But the fear of sharing, thefear of putting myself out there
, the fear of receiving all thathate and being a public figure
for this is tangible, like evenjust posting cute photos of
myself nothing, even racy, andthe amount of hate from people
for having autonomy over my bodyand my sexuality.

Speaker 2 (22:11):
For having the balls.
have the courage to showyourself how dare you and then,
god forbid I tell other womenthey can do the same it's true I
think that that can make youkind of public enemy number one
in a lot of people's eyes, andit's, it's really interesting
how much our society consumes um, I'll say like beautiful sexual

(22:36):
content a woman, and yet alsoderides the women who make the
beautiful sexual content.
It's fucking fascinating andit's like, oh, it's a thirst
trap, oh, they're so thirstythey're posting a pretty picture
of themselves and yet thatpicture got 200% more likes and
80% more comments, and you knowall that stuff than anything

(23:00):
else.

Speaker 1 (23:00):
So yeah, I need people to be liking my goofy
shit more.
Okay, the thirst traps.
It's for the algorithm, yeah,but the true vow.
Come on, come on, come on.
I'm like playing with ducks,yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:16):
All right.
So I am curious.
So we talked a little bit aboutwhat you did before, but what
more about how you got into sexwork?
It says that your true startwas in college.

Speaker 1 (23:29):
Yes, so I am a first gen immigrant, which means that
I was born in the Philippines,moved around a lot while my
parents were trying to find goodjobs to get us to the West.
When we finally got to America,we were very poor.
We lived in share houses, welived in low-income

(23:55):
neighborhoods.
But my parents really pushedfor my education and I was so
grateful for that.
But they and I didn't realizehow much that education cost,
especially once college came.
So finally my family wasgetting to a point where we
could have enough and I wasapplying for really good

(24:15):
colleges.
I was so happy, I was so proudof myself.
My grades were good, I'd workreally hard.
But uh, we kind of.
We kind of got shafted by thesystem because now we were
making a little too much for meto get good loans or grant
programs.
But most of the money my familywas making was being sent back

(24:36):
to the Philippines to take careof other family members.
So there was no money for me tobe, for my parents to pay for
my college.
So my education was entirely myresponsibility.
So I could have done the threejobs thing or I could have just
worked myself to the bone.
But I'm a practical person andmy grades mattered to me.

(25:01):
So really logically, it madesense for me to enter sex work
because of the financialsecurity, the time availability,
because I was in honorsprograms, I was doing sports, I
was volunteering, and you can'twork jobs and do all those
things at once.
But if you strip once a monthon the weekend you can make the

(25:24):
same amount as any.
What's it called?
What's the base income?
What is it called Minimumincome?
Oh, minimum wage.
Yeah, minimum wage you can makeas much as a minimum wage person
in a single night.
So logically, it just madesense and I was very comfortable
with my body.
I was I.
I never really had that same,um discomfort around sex as a

(25:47):
lot of my other catholicclassmates and family friends,
um so, and I needed the money.
So I started auditioning forgo-go clubs around my sophomore
year.
I met this wonderful club ownerwho was a woman.
It was a woman-owned club andshe made me feel so safe and

(26:08):
secure so that when I wasdancing that I felt safe, I
could do this and not feel likeit would interrupt my regular
life.
And she was like hey, at anytime you need to focus on
yourself, just let me know, youdon't have to work that weekend.
She worked with my schedule.
She did all these great things,and so that doorway into sex

(26:30):
work, into go-go dancing, mademe feel so comfortable with the
practice I was.
Go-go dancing made me feel socomfortable with the practice.
I was, I feel, really blessedthat I had that experience.
And I did pursue other stripclubs after that first one,
because that was a dive bar.
It was I, it was all bikers,they only played rock music and

(26:51):
don't get me wrong.
I figured it out.
But boy, howdy, that was aninteresting experience trying to
shake my ass to like corn, andit was such an like.
Love the owner, love theexperience, but the club or the
bar itself?
Let's just say we never turn onthe lights, not even to clean

(27:15):
it self.
Let's just say we never turnedon the lights not even to clean
it.
We did not want to, we did notwant to see what it was.
So I did level up my game.
I worked at like other clubs inNew Jersey over time, raising
my income as well, becausebigger clubs, better money and
also but higher expectations.
Right, you have to have betterlingerie, you have to have

(27:36):
better heels, you have to dancebetter.
So as I leveled up my sex workexperience, so did my
opportunities in the sexindustry or stripping industry.
I even got to work at Bada Bing, that club, the strip club from
the sopranos, yeah, it was.

(27:59):
It was like not a dream coach, Idon't.
I didn't dream of working there, but let's just say that was.
That was a really funexperience I wish I could put my
sex work resume.
Um and I, after I finishedcollege, I did leave stripping

(28:19):
behind because it was supposedto just tide me over.
But, that first entry into sexwork.
That was such a good experienceNot Washington, mind you, do
not strip in Washington but thatthat introduction made me feel

(28:40):
so comfortable in my body andmade me feel more powerful than
I had ever felt in any otheraspect of my life, from martial
arts to school to sports, like Ifelt like I had true agency
when I was up on that stage,when I was controlling
conversations, when I was takingpeople to VIP rooms, and you
never forget that high yeah, andI think that's what made it

(29:03):
easy for me to start my ownpractice.
Because I think a lot of, not alot, but I do think if no one
has had, if someone has had zeroexperience in sex work, it's
easy to just join an agency.
Because in the agency I waswith for doming and fbsm, um,
none of those other umpractitioners had sex work

(29:27):
experience before, albeit theywere really young.
I was one of the oldest, yeah,at 28.
I like they were like you'restill working.
I was like I hope so, but theywere like 19 to 22 was the
average age in that agency andit was bananas to me how like

(29:50):
they were being pushed into thatmuch agency right away Because
they were trying to run theirown practices, basically as
independent or independence,renting a room from the agency.
Yeah, and it didn't work out sowell.
Unfortunately, the agency didfall apart a few months after I
left.
oh, interesting yeah, oh, huhyeah, agencies are difficult to

(30:11):
run.
Yeah, yeah, there are muchhigher risks than a private
practice.

Speaker 2 (30:14):
Yeah, yeah, it makes sense.
That makes a lot of sense.
That makes a lot of sense.
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So I went to the world'slargest online sex toy retailer
and I found hundreds of optionswith no indication which ones
are quality and which ones areright for me.

(30:36):
So I had to make my best guess.
I ordered the toy, got it inthe mail, super excited to try
it, and bummer, it's way toostrong, even on the lowest
setting Turns out.
I can't even use it, and Iwasted 80 bucks.
So I throw it in my nightstandand a couple months later I look

(30:57):
to discover that it hasactually melted into another sex
toy in my nightstand.
I was so mad I decided to startmy own sex toy company, Juicy.
At Juicy, we sell a highlycurated selection of body-safe
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(31:18):
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(31:39):
I can say for me how I got intoit sense, since I was like

(32:00):
maybe even as early as late highschool.
But at least in this personwants from me, I'm not a little
like I don't quite understandwhy me getting bitchy is turning
them on.

(32:43):
I didn't get it yet and I don'tknow.
I don't know what that is orwhat that was, or why that is
something that that so manypeople kind of like saw and
sought out from me, but Isuspect it's because I can be a
very outspoken and opinionatedperson for a woman and maybe
that triggered the desire to bedominated or something like that
.

Speaker 1 (32:57):
Um, but you're also tall I'm also tall.
You're also really tall, right?

Speaker 2 (33:01):
yes, five, nine, five nine yeah, so I'm tall, I'm
dark I you know you have theaesthetics.
Yeah, I have kind of the look,um, I like to wear black a lot,
but, um, I don't know.
It was just just something thatI knew that people wanted from
early and I was looking to makemore money.

(33:22):
So what I did was I decided totry out a platform that
specialized in kink for onlinedom work, and the reason I did
that was because my personalityI really don't like people
telling me what to do.
I don't respond well to that atall and I'm also not much of a

(33:43):
people pleaser, and so I, fromthe friends I had that were
doing like cam work and stufflike that, I knew that that was
a lot of what got involved.
So I was like well, if I do domwork in a place where people are
specifically looking for domsand that's what they're coming
there for, then I can be moreassured that I'll have

(34:05):
situations popping off that Ican deal with that.
I want to deal with that.
I don't have to just hang up onso that was sort of how that
began.
So because my style of domingis not like you have your
essential domina, mine is alittle different.

Speaker 1 (34:25):
I think yours is more akin to the traditional
dominatrix style, right With thehumiliation and just
overpowering them.

Speaker 2 (34:34):
Lots of black yeah lots of black and the
humiliation is something that Ispecialize in, for better or
worse, and you know, knowingthat, I needed to be in a place
where people would understandthat type of domination, and
that it wasn't.
It wasn't a mommy dom typesituation, it wasn't a sensual

(34:54):
dominatrix type of thing, and soI chose a platform that
specialized in this type of work, and I think that was really
smart and I think that's thereason that I was able to
continue with it for a littlewhile, like I did, because I
didn't get the kind of mismatchthat I was expecting a lot of if
I had done other types ofcamming.

Speaker 1 (35:13):
Yeah, the way you market and how you advertise
yourself really sets the tonefor your clientele.
I made the mistake of no.
I don't think it's a mistake.
I had a learning experience inwhich I posted content on
Instagram where it suggested Iwas a different style of sex

(35:36):
worker than I am currently, andit wasn't like a direct like oh,
I do this, but it was this ideawhere I am softer.
And then I started gettingrequests because I have an
application process.
I had applications coming inand part of it is they have to
explain what they want for me,so they have to set the tone

(35:58):
like early, and some of whatthey were asking was not in line
with what I usually offer and Iwas like are these guys not
reading my website?
And they weren't.
Like they'll see the firstpiece of content, make a
judgment call and then disregardeverything else, just because

(36:19):
they want what they want.

Speaker 2 (36:20):
Yeah, absolutely, and I think for me, coming from
branding is one of myspecialties in the business
world to not having to reject89% of the people that came to
me was I had to find the rightplace and make sure that I
represented what I actually doand who I actually am.

(36:42):
So that was definitely key, andit's tricky because some little
small things can misbrand youin the eyes of people yeah,

(37:10):
which is bananas.
But even there people werereally like very surprised and
sometimes put off by having tohave the conversation about what
was good or not good for themin their experience afraid to
say yes to things I wantedsexually, because that meant
admitting to desire, admittingto this kind of carnal nature.

(37:44):
And if someone wants to bedominated and they can say
specifically what they want anddon't want, then they're really
admitting what they're settingthemselves up for and I think
that there can be some shame inthat and I think it can be a
little scary.

Speaker 1 (37:59):
Yes, I definitely share that fear of sharing
myself, been reading a lot ofbooks and going to a lot of
therapy, and I know part of myfear is from my parents because,
coming from old world, childrenwere seen, not heard.
It's still the case now as anadult, like my feelings and my

(38:22):
emotions and my desires arealways second to what the family
wants, especially coming fromthat culture where family is
everything.
What an individual does is notas important as how it impacts
the family, and that's sodifferent in the Western world,
and so it baffles me thatWesterners are still having that

(38:44):
issue of sharing themselves ina world that, like idolizes
independence.

Speaker 2 (38:50):
Totally where individuality is like above all
other values.

Speaker 1 (38:53):
And it's still not being solved.
This ability to share our trueselves and our true desires.
Um, so it's like I've, uh, Ifelt like I was able to see
through that facade fasterbecause I'm like, oh okay, wait,
no, you're having the sameissues as me.
It doesn't matter if you'rewestern or from old world.
You can't show your feelingsoof I know right.

Speaker 2 (39:14):
Yes, it's fascinating or desires.

Speaker 1 (39:16):
desires Specifically desire.

Speaker 2 (39:17):
Specifically desire we're getting better with
feelings.
We're getting better withfeelings.

Speaker 1 (39:20):
We're making some movement there.

Speaker 2 (39:21):
But I think just admitting to even having desire,
yeah, is still like a taboothing which is fucking
ridiculous.

Speaker 1 (39:31):
One of my favorite stories from college is I
remember just hanging out with abunch of girls and one of my
favorite girlies she was veryoutspoken and very comfortable
talking about just like y'alllike getting choked, and it was
dead, fucking silent and I wasjust like maybe, but I was so
nervous to say anything and shewas like okay, and then the

(39:54):
subject was dropped.
But like thinking about it likethat, I don't have many regrets
in my life.
But she was like okay, and thenthe subject was dropped.
But like thinking about it likethat, I don't have many regrets
in my life.
But she was trying to open adialogue with us.
She was, and none of us feltcomfortable.
We were juniors in college,like we were in a safe place
with people we loved.
It was all females and we stilldidn't feel comfortable talking

(40:14):
.
Albeit, she just came out ofthe fucking room.

Speaker 2 (40:17):
Y'all like getting choked.
It's a little out of the blue.

Speaker 1 (40:19):
Maybe you want to like work your way up there Yo
where he's like hey.
Like holding hands.
You like getting throttled?
Yeah, but I do like that in mycommunity now, in the friends
that I keep.
Now I can say something likethat just out of the blue, and
they're like they'll becomfortable saying yes or nay.

Speaker 2 (40:41):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Which is which is amazing, Ithink finding especially if
you're a sex positive personfinding a community that shares
your values is one of the mostempowering experiences of my
life, which is a big part of whyI do this podcast is because I
want other people to find thatsex positive community that
shares their values.

Speaker 1 (40:59):
Even if you live in the middle of rural Kentucky and
there's not a lot of peoplelike us around you, we're still
out here and we're still herewith you, and I also want to
emphasize that I've learned thatsex positive doesn't mean
promiscuous, which is like oneof the fears I had when I was

(41:21):
younger was like, oh, if I startsharing what I like, that I
like sex, are people going tothink I'm sleeping with everyone
?
And like, personally, I've beenmonogamous most of my life.
Only recently have I startedexploring the poly space, after
years of seeing how well itworked out for my friends and
seeing how well it resonatedwith me, but then being afraid

(41:45):
like, oh, with what I do, isthat going to make me even less
likable?
Because being a sex workeralready I felt like was a
possible red flag, which now I'mso proud to talk about it, like
so grateful that I'm invited totalk on your podcast about
being a sex worker.
I was even telling, like mypartners and close friends, like

(42:07):
, hey, I'm about to go to thispodcast to talk about stuff.
Do you want to go over myanswers and questions with me so
that, like I can feel ready andthey were so hyped for me and
to feel that outpouring of lovefor what I do and who I truly am
has been so helpful to mypersonal growth and like my
personal self-worth and, in turn, what I can share with my

(42:29):
guests, because I know that thehappier I am, the kinder I am to
myself, the kinder I can be toeveryone else.
Also, because then I get lessbitchy.
When they like cancel a meeting, I'm like you know what?
That's fine, I'm just going towatch a movie.
I'm going to put on my pajamasnow.

Speaker 2 (42:45):
Just to have that support for where you're coming
from and who you are and whatyou're doing is huge.
I think that's bananasly huge,so I'm curious in this line of
work.

Speaker 1 (42:59):
What are some of your favorite moments?
I would have to say thatreading reviews, because I am.
I love the written word.
I am a visual learner, sopeople can say things to me and
I take it to heart.
I like to listen, but when Iread things, it actually like I
see the to heart.
I like to listen, but when Iread things, it actually like I
see the piece of like.
Close my eyes, I can see the,the words like being written out

(43:23):
in my behind my lids.
Um, so when people take the timeto write out how they felt with
their time with me or theexperiences that we shared like,
or they even write on cards howmuch they appreciate their time
with me.
I have a box of all these thankyou cards that clients have

(43:44):
written to me over the years andthat's some of my favorite
presents, because then, wheneverI'm having a low time, if the
season is slow, if I just need apick-me-up, if I'm feeling good
and I just want to read stuff,I can just go through all these
written words and these aretangible memories for me to like
, carry with me, and thenhopefully one day I can actually

(44:04):
put them all up on a wall afterI finish my practice and just
like frame them up so people cansee how much I loved actually
having my practice.

Speaker 2 (44:12):
That's amazing, that's so affirming to have
people acknowledge directly toyou the positive impact that
your work has had on them ishuge of what's really helpful

(44:33):
and impactful for my guests.

Speaker 1 (44:35):
So if they share that because it's hard to share in
person Usually they're like,yeah, I'm good, it's like
twitching, they're having a goodtime.
They are not coherent and I'mlike chef's kiss.
But later, when they're able towrite it out, when they're able
to think through it and shareeach thoughtful thing that I did

(44:55):
that really meant so much forthem, then I know that this is
helpful.
Maybe this isn't, and I candirect my energy into practices
that continue to make me abetter provider.
Yeah, so that's the biggestgift for me is making my
business better.

Speaker 2 (45:12):
For sure Making your business better but also knowing
that you're making people'slives better.

Speaker 1 (45:16):
I think, that's.

Speaker 2 (45:17):
I think, no matter what kind of work you're doing,
if you can find a way to get thefeedback from people that
you're actually making animprovement in people's lives,
oh my God, that's everything itcould be.
You could be working at fuckingMicrosoft, you could be a
dominatrix, you could be atMcDonald's, whatever the fuck it
is.
If you can hear from people howyou're making a difference in

(45:38):
their life, it's huge.
It's a total game changer.
I think.
For me the favorite thing, thething I enjoyed the most.
So I have a little bit of reallife kink experience before
doing the dominatrix work online.
But what I noticed was that somany of the clients were really

(46:00):
self-conscious of their kinks,really like afraid to talk about
it, even with me.
Even when they came to a kinksite to talk to a dominatrix
about something that is adomination related kink, they
were ashamed and they felt weirdabout it.
And I think one of my favoritethings was being able to
reassure them.

(46:20):
Like actually, I know a lot ofpeople who are just like you in
real life.
Yeah, like it's not, likeyou're actually not that weird,
and I kind of get it Like,whatever their thing was like, I
would try to put myself intheir shoes and be like.
I can see why this specificthing is is sensual to you, and
I think one of my favoriteexamples was one of my regulars

(46:42):
that I had who was a client witha glove fetish and so he really
wanted to see me, like, put onand take off gloves.
And I have I'm I'm a burner, soI've got a shit ton of costumes
, so I had gloves to begin with,but it was really interesting.
He was so self-conscious andfelt weird about even asking for
it and I'm like, out of all thethings that I would expect

(47:06):
potentially someone online toask me to do you, asking me to
put gloves on is like so lowdown on the list of like
anything creepy or bad or thathas any bad connotation to it.
But he had a lot ofself-consciousness and it.
You know, we talked a bit aboutthat and it seemed to really
help him for me to reassure him.

Speaker 1 (47:24):
like this is like a, like a low level yeah this is
not did you guys go into whythat kink developed for him?
um, I feel like I did, but Ican't remember what the answer
was anymore because sometimeswhen you go into the stories of
how their kink developed, it'sso beautiful.
So I had a similar experience.

(47:45):
This is actually one of myfavorite experiences is another
thing that I love is when guestsbring gifts that are actually
kink toys for them, because thenit gives me a direction of
where to go.
I don't get offended easily,like if they bring me something
I'm not going to use.
I'm like that's nice, let meput it on the shelf of scary

(48:06):
things that we're going to scarefuture guests with.
Like someone brought in like amassive, like elephant dick
sized pink dildo and I was likewe're going to put future guests
with like someone brought inlike a massive, uh, like
elephant dick sized pink dildoand I was like we're gonna put
that over there.
I don't think you want to usethis.
And he's like maybe okay, wedid use it, we're not using it
again.
Um, back to the story.
Um, so I had a guest bring uh,nylon stockings and they like

(48:30):
hid it behind their back.
It was so cute and he's like um,I got you a present, it's, you
don't have to wear it if youdon't want to.
And he was like whispering andhe was hiding, he was making
himself smaller.
I was like, show me thing, showme the thing.
And then he brings out thesetwo gorgeous and he sized me
perfectly, dude, like thesenylon stockings, very-end, lace,

(48:52):
beautiful.
I was like, fuck yeah, givethat over here.
And he's like um, if I, if I,if I pay you extra, can you, can
you wear it?
And I was like fuck yeah, um,and like, over time, like as he
would come, he would always giveme new things and I got really
into it because I saw howexcited it made him.

(49:13):
And then we even got into whyhe really liked it.
It's because he grew up in atime where nylon stockings were
really popular and women at thattime wore it all the time, and
nowadays women don't really wearnylon stockings, so he misses
that.
They're coming back, though.

Speaker 2 (49:29):
They are, I dig them.

Speaker 1 (49:30):
I was in the middle of summer wearing like jean
shorts with nylons on and I'mlike comfier than you think yeah
, really yeah, because, like um,when it's cold out it keeps you
warm if you get the thick ones,but for the thin ones it keeps
you from chafing.
Oh yeah, yeah, and it and it'snot like a full pant, so it's
not so heavy, yeah, um.

(49:50):
So, as he, we continued toexplore this kink with him, as I
got more invested into hisstory, um, I, I felt my creative
juices just flowing, until onepoint I was like let's get
fucking weird.
He's like how weird.
And I was like give me a fullbody nylon suit.
And he's like what?
And I'm like it's on Amazon,it's just on Amazon.

(50:12):
And then this thing is wild.
You crawl in through the neckhole and you think you're not
gonna fit.
It's like Spanx, but it's youjust like crawl all the way in
and then you just look like aBarbie doll afterwards.

Speaker 2 (50:25):
So it's like those full body like yeah, body kind
of thing, but so comfy.

Speaker 1 (50:31):
So freaking comfy.
And it was great because wejust had this session where I
cuddled him in a full body nylonsuit and this dude lost his
shit.
Oh, he was like this is thebest fucking day and I was like,
yay, let's, let's make youhappy about this.
Let's like, try, let's godeeper into it.

(50:52):
I don't just have to wear it.
This one way we can exploreyour kink and enjoy it together.
And, um, I may or may not havea nylon fetish now, right, he
gave you a fetish.

Speaker 2 (51:03):
He gave me a fetish, dude.
I fucking love that.
Yeah, I love.
The tables have turned Ifucking love that.
I know that.
Like for me, there wassomething I learned about when I
got started, which is that alot of people are into cock
shaming and cock ratings and atfirst I was like what People pay
you to do that?
I was kind of blown away.

(51:23):
But then so I like to makejokes, I like I have a sense of
humor and I thought it was sofun to have the opportunity to
combine this like dominatrixwork with a sense of humor that
people really enjoyed.
Where it was like you could saysomething kind of terrible.
It's kind of like you'reroasting their dick, Right.

(51:44):
Like that was sort of how Iapproached it and I thought it
was really fun.

Speaker 1 (51:49):
And I didn't expect to have that kind of levity in
Dominatrix work I was expectingoh my, God, the best times I've
had in sessions is when we'redoing a serious scene but like,
of course, we've built so muchtrust and rapport that I'll just
say whatever stupid thing thatcomes up to my head and we we
have to stop the scene for asolid five minutes because he's

(52:12):
laughing.
I'm pressing my face so well,trying not to cackle because I'm
not trying to like, but he'slike.
So one of one of the times thatthis happened was like I'm
leaning in like his he's facedown into the table because like
it's an easy position for um,an easy and comfortable starter
position for new guests, and I'mjust like dragging my sharp

(52:35):
nails on his back.
He's getting the shivers and Ilike lean in close to his ear
and I'm like you ready for me totake your behind.
Fuck, sorry, I can't.
I can't even keep a straightface now.

Speaker 2 (52:57):
But like oh my God.

Speaker 1 (52:57):
Wow, nice, fuck, sorry, I can't.
I can't even keep a straightface now, but like, oh my god,
wow nice.
So now, whenever I I can't notuse that joke now I um I try not
to do it in the middle of thesession, I'll do it in the
beginning, when we're just likeum, talking consent and stuff.
It was like so this is gonna beour first real session, I'll be
taking your behind.
It provides that levity thatallows us to be comfortable with

(53:19):
each other because they'rebeing so vulnerable with us.

Speaker 2 (53:22):
So vulnerable.
Totally, I agree, I feel likeone thing at first I thought I
had to be super serious all thetime and then I was tired of
being serious.
It's exhausting.
So then I was cracking jokesall the time and I found most of
the time they appreciated thejokes and I learned like when to
and when not to.

Speaker 1 (53:38):
I mean, I'm sure I could still refine that.

Speaker 2 (53:42):
But yeah, they're being so fucking vulnerable that
if you can give a little bit oflevity, it's such a relief, I
think, to everybody, to bothsides, to have a little bit of
lightness brought into it.

Speaker 1 (53:55):
And God forbid, they're so serious because I've
had guests who I'm like I mightnot be the right fit for you and
I do not take offense to thatbecause I love having jokes.
I like laughing during mysessions.
Yes, there is a period of timein which I will be absolutely
very serious and involved, butas we're ramping up, as we're

(54:26):
building a rapport, I want themto know that they're going to
get my authentic the authentic.

Speaker 2 (54:30):
Val and authentic Val , talk shit.

Speaker 1 (54:30):
I'm really going to be here with you, and that
includes a little bit of shittalking yeah, and like if I hid
that part of myself, I felt likeI feel like it wouldn't be
truly authentic to who I am as aperson and as a provider.

Speaker 2 (54:41):
And then, when you're not being authentic, the work
is exhausting.
Oh my God, yeah, you can justbe yourself.
It's like time fucking flies.
But if you're not beingauthentic, it's just like oh my
God yeah.

Speaker 1 (54:53):
And then like how I I like to think that they know
when we're being authentic, butdo they know when we're not?
I feel like they do so like assoon as I feel that vibe, I have
a talk with them.
I've had this talk with ahandful of guests now where it's
not a complete drop, becausethat's like I care about them, I
want them to be okay, I wantthem to have what they need, but

(55:14):
I'm like I am not the personthat can give that to you.
I'm very comfortable havingthat talk and then I share
resources with them.
I'm like here are otherproviders, here are websites or
resources in which you can findothers that might be a better
fit for you, because I do wantthe best for them and if I'm not
the best for them, then I don'twant them wasting their time or

(55:34):
resources with me.

Speaker 2 (55:36):
Yeah, yeah, Yep, that makes sense, and it's again
like when you can be yourself inthe sessions.
Then it's a lot less, itdoesn't feel as much like work.

Speaker 1 (55:49):
I'm also really lucky .
I will acknowledge the factthat over the three years I have
managed to manage my financesso that I have runway, I feel
comfortable, and that now I worka lot for the craft of it.
So I'm not living month tomonth, like I know many sex
workers struggle with, becausehow do you manage your finances

(56:12):
when it's all cash?
right um but um.
My experience in corporate andcorporate finances have helped
me with that part of my business.
So when I don't feel like I'mhaving a good time or if I'm too
tired, I can step back.
I can make sure that all mysessions are good for me, good

(56:34):
for Val, and I know that's aprivilege.

Speaker 2 (56:39):
It is but it's a privilege that you've worked
hard to create, yeah for sure.
So I'm curious.
We've talked a lot about thefun.
I'm curious for you what arethe downsides that you've
experienced in being a dom?

Speaker 1 (56:51):
Ooh, yeah, there, there's definitely downsides.
Most people would think it'ssafety, and I agree with them.
But personally, if you'reasking me directly, right, it's
the emotional labor Because,like, even if I'm having a time
which like 80 to 90 percent ofthe time and who can say that

(57:12):
about their jobs?
Right, who likes their job mostof the time?
I like folding my sheets, Ilove the like doing laundry, I
love doing my books.
I'm like I'm going to do mybooks today, like I get excited,
except for paying the taxes.
That's not fun.
But the emotional labor is, Ifind, one of the most insidious

(57:33):
aspects of this job, because,even if you're having a good
time, you're still holding likeI'm still holding space for
people.
I am still holding the memoriesof their pain, of their fear,
of their insecurities, and Ihold that for them and I help
dispel it.
But that takes so much out ofme, especially if I'm truly
caring about them, if I trulyshow them my love, if I show

(57:54):
them that they are not alone andto be patient as they process,
as they repeat the same thoughtsover and over again, because
most people take dozens of timesto go through a thought or a
painful subject before they canreally fully process all of it

(58:15):
and, as someone who can't hearthings twice without getting
stressed out, like that is thestressful part for me.
I'm like we talked about thisalready.
Yeah, let's talk about it again.
So, and unlike physicalexhaustion, where you can feel
the muscle ache, emotionalexhaustion is like oh, it's
harder to wake up today.
Oh, like I feel a littlesluggish, but it's not muscles,

(58:38):
it's just like oh, I can't sleepright now.
Why can't I sleep?
My life is going well, buttheir lives aren't going well.
I'm thinking about what's goingon in their lives.
I'm thinking about, becausepeople share such intimate
things with me, the amount of myclients that have chronic
illness or, um, don't have muchmore time, um, I actually get a

(59:00):
decent amount of those peopleand they share that with me and
I hold that for them and I can'tshare with anyone because I do
believe in discretion.
So, like, like, whatever clientstell me, I keep it to myself.
I become a confidant for them,yeah, and it's such a big
responsibility and I'm gratefulfor it.
But I know that I need to takeso much time for myself, like

(59:24):
taking sabbaticals, taking longweeks just to be alone, because
if I don't like my body shutsdown from that emotional labor,
like my brain fog gets reallyheavy, like I can't lift my
hands and people are like, oh,what's wrong.
Like your muscles work fine.

(59:44):
You're like I'll go to thedoctor and say everything works
fine.
But that emotional pain can'tbe measured by an x-ray.
It's just that you keep it inyour heart, and I like to think
I have a pretty big heart yeah,yeah.

Speaker 2 (59:57):
Well, you must, if you're able to hold enough of it
.

Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
Yeah, and it's not a genetic anomaly, just a medical
mystery yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:00:08):
so I think that is very true.
I think you have definitely hadlonger lasting and more
connected experiences withclients than I ever did.
Hands down, I will say to meit's so much more work than it
seems like it is, it's just alot more work than it seems like
it would.

Speaker 1 (01:00:27):
be Well, online is a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:00:29):
It is, it's its own thing.
Yeah, it's like a constantblitz and like you have to be
like really fast and rapid withlike your response and like your
ability to create a fantasy forthem and like to get things
kicked off.
And that is that's yourcreative force, that's your
creative energy, that you haveto like put forth and have out

(01:00:49):
there all the time, that youhave to like put forth and have
out there all the time.
And I found myself trying tosystemize it, which I did to
some.
To some you know're saying oh,this is what she's providing,
because, like I, tend to providesofter DOM or in FBSM.

Speaker 1 (01:00:58):
My rates are on the higher end and they're like

(01:01:25):
she's not even doing like fullescorting and she's charging as
much as escorts and I'm like,but it's a bespoke experience,
like you're not just here forphysicality, you're here for
emotional, you're here formental simulation.
Yeah, um, you're here to beremembered.
You're not a revolving, it'snot a revolving door.
I remember everyone who comesto see me, whereas online I, you
, you're.

(01:01:45):
It sounds like you're providingthem a bespoke experience, but
it's so hard to charge thatprice.

Speaker 2 (01:01:49):
You can't.
Yeah, they won't do it.
Hey, ps, you should pay me morebecause la, la, la, la.
I mean you hope that you gettipped more and stuff, but oh my
god you know, I mean that partof it was hard, just trying to
have the creative energy to dothat.
And then the other thing for me, because the kind of doming I
was doing was like full glam soI had to be full glam anytime

(01:02:10):
that I was doing it, which I ammore like.
Most days of the week I don'twear makeup and my hair is in a
ponytail, like for sure, and sohaving to get all done up like
that was sort of a pain in theass.
How long did it take you?
Um, you know I've gotten betterat it, so it used to take an
hour and a half.
Oh, yeah, yeah, to do like fullhair and makeup, like full hair

(01:02:33):
and makeup, and now I can do itin an hour wait, but an hour
and a half of prep and then howmany hours of sesh would you
have?

Speaker 1 (01:02:40):
um like three ish okay, okay, so it was, so you
would try to block it.
Yeah, I would try to block itfor sure.

Speaker 2 (01:02:45):
Yeah, because otherwise it wouldn't be worth
the prep time yeah yeah, yeah,but I would do.
I would do, um, I would do theprep, I would do my own like
photo shoots and video shoots onmy own before going online, and
then I would go online.
Yeah, so I could get as muchout of that one hair makeup as
possible, but that part of itwas it's kind of a pain in the

(01:03:07):
butt because that's usually afull team.

Speaker 1 (01:03:08):
Yeah, um, I've heard that some high-end escorts will
actually have a team and they'llhire makeup artists and hair
people for before their daystheir long work days and they'll
try to cram everything into oneday it makes sense they'll work
only two or three days um,whereas how many days a week
were you working for online?

(01:03:29):
Two or three a week, yeahthat's all you can do if you're
doing that much prep.

Speaker 2 (01:03:33):
Exactly Because it's just too much work, because I
was busy as fuck doing otherthings as well.
So yeah, you busy, yeah Me.
Who me you Us.

Speaker 1 (01:03:43):
Look at us.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:04:05):
So I think there's actually something interesting
to talk about here, which issomething that is called the
hierarchy, which is thehierarchy of sex workers, and we
were talking perceived the waythat, val, that you put.
It was their perceived agency,which I think is.

Speaker 1 (01:04:17):
That's how I perceive it, that's how I rank, but I
think the more common way isstatus Is status or value, value
.

Speaker 2 (01:04:25):
The intent is we use your agency to determine your
value.
We use your agency to determineyour value.
So we have everything from, Ithink, the highest end
girlfriend experience, escortsall the way down to Do you think
they have high agency though.
You know, I think it reallydepends, I think it depends on

(01:04:46):
not just I mean, a lot of themwork independently.

Speaker 1 (01:05:13):
So in one sense, yes, but it's possible to work
independently and not haveagency.
Yeah, For sure.
I a lot of sugar babies don'trealize that that's taxable
income after a certain amount.
It is not a gift, it is income.
Ten thousand dollars, yep,that's the limit.
More from your parents, though.

Speaker 2 (01:05:28):
Yeah, daddy, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:05:34):
Yeah, but it's should we just start?
So how do we want to rank it?
Yeah?
So, we kind of talked a littlebit about this, but I think
what's most interesting to me isthe need to rank it, but that

(01:05:55):
we do have.
I can go into why I need to.
Yeah, tell me yeah, so I haveone practice right.
However, they are very twodifferent sides of the same coin
, where the FBSM is my very softside and then my domino side is
the one where, once I've builtenough trust, they can flip that
coin to that other side and seethat darkness that I want to

(01:06:17):
share with them.
But they have to earn thatBecause for me, that like
intense power side can consumeme and can consume others.
I've seen it happen.
I've seen it in my personallife, so I am very controlled
about it professionally in mypersonal life, so I am very
controlled about itprofessionally and when I share

(01:06:39):
my sex work with others.
When I mentioned FBSM, when Ifirst started mentioning it, I
noticed that there was a lot ofstigma, not stigma judgment,
mostly because I was Asian.
Oh, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:06:52):
So, by the way, fbsm is full body sensual massage.
That's what we're referring to.

Speaker 1 (01:06:57):
And when Asians are associated with massage or
erotic massage, people think ofparlors, those massage parlors
and a strip mall, and that isabsolutely a valid form of sex
work massage parlors and a stripmall and that is absolutely a
valid form of sex work.
But that was not my style ofsex work.
But because of my race, I wasimmediately relegated to like oh

(01:07:19):
, that's what you do.
Which parlor do you work at?
and it's like um, I've workedreally hard to have my own like
high-end Bellevue apartment andcraft this website and this
persona.
And then to just immediately bejudged like that was so painful
and just a gut punch.
So I started introducing myselfas my other role, first Domina,

(01:07:43):
and the respect was there.
I didn't have to explainfurther.
I was like you, domina.
At first they wouldn't believe,because I tend to be a bubb
person in like wear a lot ofpinks in my personal life.
Um, so the the main uh judgmentwas you, but you're so tiny and
then I would like um, dosomething dark to them or like

(01:08:05):
pull their hair and just holdthem the right way, and they're
like, okay, yeah, okay, youcould dom me, mommy.
And I was like you'll get aninvoice later.
But that I felt.
I personally felt that judgmentdoing the same exact work,
they're the same, it's the samepractice and yet just that title
shift was an immediate judgmentshift in peers or other

(01:08:28):
providers or other providers.

Speaker 2 (01:08:34):
Yeah, you know I will say like again, I have a lot
less experience than you do, butwhen I was doing online Dom
work and I was very open aboutit with with friends and and my
community um you know, I waslike support your local sex
worker.

Speaker 1 (01:08:44):
Yeah, oh God, did our friends ever see you?

Speaker 2 (01:08:47):
Uh, certainly oh wow, in some ways, yes, yeah, but I
did not really encounter what Iperceived to be disrespect for
it.
I think sometimes there waspeople being surprised and that,
but it did seem to be somethingthat garnered respect, which I

(01:09:11):
wasn't actually expecting,necessarily, when I got started,
and so I'm thankful that I waslucky enough to have something
that I specialize in that peoplegive more respect to, but I
just as well could have beensomeone who specializes in other
things that don't get as muchrespect yeah, um, and what's
important, though, is you've hadthat experience as a dom of

(01:09:32):
getting that respect, but youstill believe that it's your
responsibility to share thisknowledge with others and to
raise that level of respect forall sex workers.

Speaker 1 (01:09:48):
Look down on sex workers, oh yeah, and it's like
why are we doing this?
We're in the same boat.
Like some of us might be likeat the bow, some of us might be
lower, like the Titanic, butwe're on the same boat.
If this boat crashes, if lawspass that are not helpful to us,
if we continue to bestigmatized, if we continue to
be targeted by very hurtfulpeople I don't want to go too

(01:10:13):
dark, but yeah, if we are notsupporting each other, who's
going to support us?

Speaker 2 (01:10:19):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think it just comes fromshame.
I think that if you're doingsex work and you have a deep
sense of shame about it, whatwill help buoy you through that
shame is the belief that whatyou're doing is better than
somebody else.
Oh God, yeah, and so it'sreally tempting to to fall into

(01:10:39):
that.
Well, I'm just a sugar baby.
That's not sex work, it'sabsolutely.

Speaker 1 (01:10:44):
Oh, I do want to mention that little tidbit that
we we thought that stay at homehousewife can be a form of sex
work housewife can be a form ofsex work.

Speaker 2 (01:10:53):
Can absolutely be a form of sex work.

Speaker 1 (01:10:55):
Can corroborate as a former stay-at-home housewife
yeah, that was work.
It was not fun.

Speaker 2 (01:11:03):
It can totally be.
So many things can be sex work,and I think it's interesting
when we're trying to split hairsand rank above or below others.
It's really the best foreverybody involved if we all
just are a united front and saythat the bottom line is fucking
bodily autonomy, this is my body, I get to do with it what I

(01:11:26):
want If that means I make aprofit off of it.
It means I make a profit off ofit and that that is my fucking
right.
And that is what all sexworkers have in common from
everything from high end escortto the people walking the
streets, to the sugar babies tothe professional dominatrixes is
to say this is my body and Ihave the right to make money off

(01:11:48):
of it.
And God knows we do.

Speaker 1 (01:11:51):
Yes, because how are we any different?
How is selling time withtouches with me different than a
construction worker sellingtime of carrying heavy things?
I agree.

Speaker 2 (01:12:04):
Exactly, it's the same thing.
It's physical labor.
Your physical body is beingexploited to make money.
It's exactly the same thing.
I think that's.
It's just a different part.
Yeah, it's just a different.
It's just a different part.
But I think that is a hugething, that it really is

(01:12:24):
important for us to be mindfulof not ranking different kinds
of sex work against each other,so not pitting sex workers
against each other.
Because even if you are a sexworker and you're not doing it
yourself, if you're outside ofthe field and you're doing it
and you're saying, well, myfriend's a sex worker, well,
she's not one of those, butshe's, you know, this kind, this

(01:12:45):
fancy kind, what?

Speaker 1 (01:12:46):
do they call them Pick me girls yeah.
I guess, so yeah, I keephearing about this and I keep
seeing it on my feeds.
Is it a girl or a person thatwants to be chosen or wants to
be have attention by puttingdown other people?
Is that a pick me, I guess so.

Speaker 2 (01:13:03):
Yes, okay.
Yeah, that's my understanding,because I've heard boys called
pick me girl.

Speaker 1 (01:13:10):
I was like oh okay, you tell them.

Speaker 2 (01:13:12):
Sis, I don't know what it means, I can't keep up
with the Gen Zs, but I'm doingmy best, yeah, I want to talk a
little bit about how this sexwork, just a little bit about
how this sex work interacts withour personal sex life.
Oh okay, and For me one thingthat changed after doing online
dominatrix work was that itcheapened male sexual attention

(01:13:35):
dramatically for me.

Speaker 1 (01:13:36):
In a good way or a bad way.

Speaker 2 (01:13:37):
In an absolutely empowering.

Speaker 1 (01:13:39):
I don't fucking care anymore way.

Speaker 2 (01:13:41):
Yeah, it just became something that is like a faucet
that you can turn on or off, andyou always kind of knew that,
just as a person living in thisworld.

Speaker 1 (01:13:50):
But I think it was so much more clear doing the
online sex work Because we'rebrainwashed to think that it's
necessary for our survival.

Speaker 2 (01:13:58):
We're brainwashed to think that it's a scarce
resource, and it's not.

Speaker 1 (01:14:03):
The streets are littered with dicks.
Yes, the streets are literallylittered with dicks.

Speaker 2 (01:14:07):
Male attention is not a scarce resource.
Literally, literally.
Male attention is not a scarceresource.
You do not need to be like likechanging the way that you live
for it, bending yourself overfor it, literally or
figuratively, if you don't wantto yeah, and you can cut that
out mid-stroke.
yeah, you can cut it outmid-stroke, as we've discussed
previously.
You can stop mid-stroke.
Um, but I did notice that, likemy, how much I cared about

(01:14:30):
presenting super sexy when Iwould go to a party changed, yes
, after doing this work, becauseI was like whatever, if I want
that kind of attention, I knowhow to get it.

Speaker 1 (01:14:40):
I have never worn less makeup than starting this
practice.
Yes, I am glammed up.
However it's for the camera andfor moi and for our wonderful
host here, I want it to bepretty for her.
But after my second yearactually, no after I returned
from my sabbatical after sixmonths of not wearing any makeup

(01:15:01):
while in the jungle because youjust can't.
You can't wear makeup in CostaRica yeah, you look gnarly.
Albeit, I did tattoo eyebrows.
Now on Chef's.

Speaker 2 (01:15:10):
Kiss Very happy about this decision thank you, thank
you.

Speaker 1 (01:15:12):
I have like six hairs to my name, um, but when I came
back from my sabbatical, Itried this, this crazy thing,
out.
I just didn't wear makeup formy sessions because it was all
my regulars.
When I first came back, Ididn't see anyone new.
I was just like I'm gonna workon the wait list and make sure
that all my loyal fans are theones that, like I shower with my
time and availability.

(01:15:33):
Um, and if anything, they werelike you look great.
You look so tan because Istopped whitewashing myself um,
it's a.
Filipino thing, um, and I feltso confident with my own face.
It was wild.
I had never thought I couldexperience that working in sex

(01:15:55):
work because, as like a formerstripper, you had to do your
makeup.
The club almost demanded if youdidn't wear makeup you would
get like booted back into thedressing room and other people
would force makeup on youBecause we didn't have agency as
strippers.
Makeup on you because we didn'thave agency as strippers, but
as a personal, like a soloprovider.
Boy, howdy, can I finally do myface the way I want to, as god

(01:16:16):
intended, with sunscreen and, um, maybe some chapstick?

Speaker 2 (01:16:22):
yeah, yeah, that's so cool, I think.
Yeah, that's just, it's.
There's something reallyempowering about really truly
knowing it's not a scarceresource to get male attention
and you know how to get it whenyou want it and if you don't
necessarily want it or you'realready getting it for other
reasons.
You don't have to participatein all the decorative actions,

(01:16:44):
yes, which I enjoy, yeah it'sstill fun, but not all the time.

Speaker 1 (01:16:47):
I don't want to have to do it.
Yes, it's the have to do itthat makes it painful, and also
that learning that it's so muchother stuff that we provide.
That's actually getting thatmale attention, like when you
realize it was your personality,your strong, domineering
personality, and your take noshit attitude.
That's what was reallyattractive to them.
Wow, you can lean into it.

Speaker 2 (01:17:09):
I can do that without wearing a corset.

Speaker 1 (01:17:12):
Yeah, and you to them wow, you can lean into it, I
can do that without wearing acorset.
Yeah, and you didn't have to bea soft girl.
He was like oh, is this okayfor you?
Is this okay for you?
No, it's okay for me.
So we're gonna do it this way.
Yeah, boy, howdy is that nice Iknow it is so nice.

Speaker 2 (01:17:24):
It really is.
Yeah, it's a huge.

Speaker 1 (01:17:25):
I think that's like hugely, like awesome and
interesting unexpected and Ithink it helps that we're
surrounding ourselves with thesewomen who have learned this
lesson, because it is a longjourney it is.
It's um, and I've beensurrounded, like, with women who
were insecure, who depended onthe attention to survive.

(01:17:48):
As a former serviceman wife, Iwas surrounded by women whose
livelihoods were based on theirhusband's livelihoods, and the
insecurity and the cutting ofother women was rampant and
almost like mandatory.

(01:18:08):
To be part of some of thosegroups and I don't know if it
was just my group, because, ofcourse, I haven't seen every but
when those women didn't haveagency, when they didn't have
their own income, when they feltso powerless, I have never
experienced as much hate andanger than in those times.

(01:18:29):
And with those peopleInteresting, yeah, than in those
times.
And with those peopleinteresting, yeah, because even
if someone doesn't have a lot ofmoney, if they feel like they
have control over their life, um, they can make the best of what
they have.
But if, where you live, who youspend time with, how many kids
you have are dependent onanother person in 2020, yeah,
that's bananas, it is yeah, yeah, because, like, you're getting

(01:18:52):
all this media saying oh, youcan be a strong, independent
woman, you can have it all, youcan work, you can have kids, you
can do everything, but ifyou're not doing it, what does
that say about you?

Speaker 2 (01:19:01):
Right, right.
And, by the way, who wants todo everything?
Who wants to do everything?
No, I don't.
I think it's bullshit.
Having it all is the mostbullshit idea that has ever been
sold to women in the fuckingworld, but we can talk about
that on another podcast.
But I'm curious.
So, in terms of doing sex workand having partners, how have

(01:19:23):
you been able to figure out ifyour partners were going to be
accepting or like if this wassomething that you could broach
with?

Speaker 1 (01:19:28):
them.
So I've only been doing thisfor three years.
I haven't had many partnersthat I've had the opportunity to
share this with.
When I first started, it wasterrifying.
I was like, oh, this is a redflag for me.
This is going to be adetraction of my value as a
partner.
Growing up in monogamouscultures in the Philippines,

(01:19:49):
where relationships aren'trecognized until it's a marriage
Like my parents will notrecognize a boyfriend.
Oh, interesting, yeah, so eventhey didn't even recognize my
husband.
I'm going to call that, likethis guy.
And I was like yeah, but sohaving that, having those

(01:20:22):
relationships not be recognized,made me feel like I had to do
so much more to make it myselfvaluable to those partnerships
so that we could push to thenext level.
Like I didn't want to get stuckin just boyfriend, girlfriend,
because then I wouldn't, itwouldn't be a real relationship
in my world.
So I hit it, or like it wouldtake me a while to share it.
And I did have a partner whowasn't proud of it, um, and that
hurt.
Um, it's not that they didn'tlike it, they just didn't ask
questions.
They um weren't very curiousabout it.

(01:20:44):
Um, it was my business.
It was like a don't ask, don'ttell kind of experience which we
all know it hurts a breedingground for shame, yeah and I
felt ashamed about it.
Yeah, you're right.
Like, looking like that is whatI felt.
Um, and then, over time, as myconfidence grew, so did, um,
their uh discomfort around thetopic, and they were able to

(01:21:05):
share it more with the people intheir lives.
Um, and then, ergo, I feltbetter, but that was bananas,
that I had to rely on someoneelse feeling comfortable, to
feel more comfortable.
Um, so now I'm just like firstor second date.
It's like so I'm a sex worker.
Hi, here's my website, here'smy Instagram.

(01:21:26):
And then most of the responseshave been oh, super cool, super
cool, super cool, yeah, and someof them even offer to help.
Like I had a partner help me,like, go over questions.
Today I had another partner goover marketing stuff.
I have many partners offeringhey, do you need help making
content?
I'm like eat a bag, are youactually going to do the work or

(01:21:46):
are you just going to lay there?
Oh, you want to lay there?
Thanks for all the help, bruh.
Yeah, because they don't knowhow much like lighting and like
camera work does.
And I'm like dude, it's notgoing to be fun for you.
I'm telling you right now, um,and what's it called?
Yeah, the overwhelming supportI've had from current partners,

(01:22:09):
because I feel confident in it.
They're able to accept itbetter and like the stigma is
starting to fade, at least inour local area in Seattle,
bellevue area I don't know aboutBellevue but maybe.
Seattle At least Seattle, and Ithink it's.
I became OK with my practice.
And that was what changed itfor my partners.

(01:22:30):
I became okay with my practiceand that was what changed it for
my partners, because when Ifirst revealed it to that first
partner who wasn't comfortable,I can.
I can recognize that I wasn'tcomfortable yet, so how could
they feel comfortable?

Speaker 2 (01:22:39):
yeah, and like how you are going to explain it to
them and how you're going toportray it to them is going to
be affected by your own comfortlevel with it, exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:22:49):
Yeah, and I had this elaborate backstory for what my
real job was, and now I don'teven know how to say that
backstory anymore, because Ijust tell people what I do.
I forgot, yeah, like.
I only have so many brain cellsleft.
Ok, they're like bing bong,bing bong.
They got there, they're doingtheir best and I just I can't

(01:23:10):
lie anymore.
It's actually really hard forme to lie these days.
Yeah, because, um, that takesso much extra effort, it's a lot
of energy, so much, and it'snot fun.
Yeah, yeah, because then youget caught in the lie.
The fear is there and theexcitement, I think, is because,
um, I used to lie a lot more,uh, more like covering stuff up,
not like outright lie, but Iwould cover stuff up because

(01:23:33):
then I could make a persona or Icould make a story about myself
that I felt like I could beproud of, when in reality I
could have just been proud ofmyself and if they rejected your
persona, they weren't rejectingyou.

Speaker 2 (01:23:47):
Oh yeah, that's a, that's a really big one.

Speaker 1 (01:23:49):
It's safer, but it's so much worse.
It's so much worse to livebehind that mask, and now I see
myself as multifaceted ratherthan wearing multiple masks.

Speaker 2 (01:23:59):
Yeah, yeah, oh, I like that.
Yeah, that makes a lot of senseto me.
I think that makes sense.
I think I'm curious.

Speaker 1 (01:24:14):
What do you wish were different about sex work?
Is this like the starter forthe next?
Yeah, this is the lead-in forthe next two hours.
Yep, exactly, I will say that,of course, many of my peers all
agree that it needs to bedecriminalized.
It's been decriminalized inother countries.

(01:24:34):
It's worked out.
They've decriminalized weed, atleast statewide for the good
ones, and look how much incomethat brought the states.
Could you imagine how much likeincome it could bring if sex
workers could report theirincome, actually have a steady
paycheck, afford to rentapartments?
So one of the hardest thingsfor me was like yeah, I report

(01:24:58):
most of my income because I haveto be able to afford to live in
bellevue, you have to fill outapplications, yeah, and like
even my accountant was just likewhy are you paying this much?
And I was like because it's theright thing to do.
And then she laughed in my faceand then I laughed and then,

(01:25:23):
and then the stack of cash leftcontent to educate people
without feeling like that wasalone illegal.
Then maybe we could reallychange not only the sex workers
experience but the clientsexperience.
I've had so many guests come tome and say how they felt scared

(01:25:47):
and unsafe to go to providersand the reason why they would
choose me is because one I havea legitimate website,
wwwvaladroachcom, and because Iwould post so much on my
Instagram Valadroach and theycould see that I was a real

(01:26:08):
person, that I was working formyself and that I emphasized
connection over, just like a cutand dry session, and that made
it safe for them to see me.
And they would tell me thesehorror stories of seeing, of
going somewhere, expecting tosee one person, seeing someone
else going somewhere, seeing thepimp Going somewhere, feeling

(01:26:32):
unsafe to leave their car.
Yeah, because a lot of thesesex workers have to rent out of
the shadiest hotels.
Like there are forums wherethey say this hotel doesn't have
cameras.
How fucking unsafe is that?
Like the fact that they feellike that's a boon for their
practice, rather than I'm like,okay, how many cameras can I

(01:26:55):
install in like 2000 square feet?
Oh, this one can see straightinto your butthole.
Yeah, I agree, but yeah, if, andthat I just went on a major
tangent.
But so many benefits if it wasdecriminalized.
Just so many good things for somany good people.

(01:27:15):
And the people who don't wantit decriminalized I want to know
what their logical reasons are.
You know it's.
Where are they at this point intime?

Speaker 2 (01:27:28):
Yeah, I think there's also an important point to make
that, at least for me, there'sharm reduction in sex work and
harm reduction in drug use, andthere's a really important
differentiation and we've sortof gotten it reversed in the
societies that have been moreallowing which is that what you

(01:27:49):
need to do is decriminalize sexwork but legalize drugs, because
legalization means that there'sa governing body potentially
over your body if sex work islegalized, versus
decriminalizing it, but drugs.
We need clean supplies of drugsso that people have safe things
that they're putting in theirbodies, and that's a very

(01:28:10):
different thing and that needsto be regulated, and so
decriminalizing sex work isabsolutely the answer, in my
opinion.
I think that it's reallyimportant for sex workers to
feel and be protected under thelaw.

Speaker 1 (01:28:24):
Yeah, and it saves time for the police force.
Why are they focusing on takingdown individual practitioners?
Absolutely, take down theexploitative rings that are
harming actual individuals, forsure.
However, why would they wastetime on the Johns who just need

(01:28:45):
a hug or some cuddles and touch?
There's other things we need tobe worried about.

Speaker 2 (01:28:53):
And.

Speaker 1 (01:28:54):
I'm glad that you mentioned drug use, because
that's another thing that Ithink is very related to sex
work.
It is very easy to get lost indrugs or substances while doing
sex work and they're verycorrelated, I believe.
Like when I was a stripper,when I first auditioned I was 20

(01:29:15):
years old and I was so nervousto get up on that stage and, um,
the owner said, hey, would youlike a shot of vodka to feel
more comfortable?
And I said, no, I'm, I'm just ababy.
Yeah, um, because like I drovemyself there, I had to drive

(01:29:35):
back.
I hadn't really drank that muchyet I was like, okay, sex work
isn't scary for me, but drinkingsex work, that's crazy.
Why are you just offering thisfor me?
And like she was like trying tojustify, like, oh, they all do
it, like for their firsteditions, it helps you loosen up
.
And then they also offered free.
Many of the clubs I worked outoffered free or reduced drink

(01:29:58):
prices for the dancers or they'dbe in the bathroom smoking weed
.
And there is nothing wrong withenjoying and relaxing, but we
were working Right.
Enjoying and relaxing, but wewere working right.
But it's like normalized thatif a sex worker is working, they
can be as inebriated as theywant, whereas for me I will try

(01:30:19):
and never be like if I um smokethe joint before the in the
early in the day and I have alate night session.
That's about as inebriated asI'll be.
Yeah, because for me to not befully present in a session I
feel like is a disservice to myguests and a disservice to
myself because I put myself athigher risk.
But how many sex workers areusing substances so that they

(01:30:44):
can get through their day?

Speaker 2 (01:30:46):
Yeah, yeah, and I mean honestly how many not sex
workers, how many just people?
We just did a podcast on sexand substances and it's
remarkable how many of us areusing substances, especially
alcohol, just to get through sexin a normal everyday life, much
less when it's part of your job.
Yeah, so I think that thesubstance use part is definitely

(01:31:07):
another conversation, but it'shuge and important.
Part is definitely anotherconversation, but it's huge and
important.
Um, I think another thing likethat I wish were different is
that for online work.
Yeah, platforms are soexploitative oh my gosh, they
charge so much fucking money.
Yeah, it's like 40 to 60percent of your take goes to the
company and that's all fine atthe very beginning, when you're

(01:31:28):
just getting new clients.
But when you have regulars,yeah, and you're like wait, so
every time that they come backto me to see me, I'm paying you
60 percent.
So I mean, onlyfans has thebest rates, but OnlyFans doesn't
advertise for you at all.
So you have to do 100 percentof your own marketing.
It doesn't like show up as,like he suggested people.

(01:31:48):
They have like a limited amountof that that they do, but for
the most part, you have to do100% of your own.

Speaker 1 (01:31:56):
Like on other platforms.

Speaker 2 (01:31:58):
Yeah, you have to be on Twitter.

Speaker 1 (01:32:02):
You have to be all around advertising yourself.
They took down the sex workerTwitter, didn't they?
Did they?
I thought so I didn't know that.
Oh, I know they've been likecracking down on a lot of stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:32:22):
I didn't know that.
I know they've been likecracking down on a lot of stuff
like reasonable and fair for theactual value that they're
offering, because listen, it's2024 like webcams are not new
technology.
None of this shit is newtechnology.
Live streaming is not newtechnology.
None of this stuff should beexpensive.
The security involved alsoshouldn't be expensive,
considering how minimal itactually is when you experience

(01:32:45):
what they're doing.
Um, so that's you explored it?
Yourself um a little bit, uh, alittle bit, uh, a little bit I
have.

Speaker 1 (01:32:53):
Yeah, how, how accessible was it for you?
Because you're pretty techsavvy, you pretty, you know like
.

Speaker 2 (01:33:01):
I think.
Here's what I think.
I think that if you could getquality tech workers on board
for a project that involves sexwork, you could do it very
easily and very quickly.
I think the problem is there'sso much stigma that people don't
want to say that they workedfor a camming platform or a sex
work platform.

Speaker 1 (01:33:21):
Do you think that it should be one platform that many
providers can, or do you thinkprovider or cameras should start
figuring out how to make theirown websites?

Speaker 2 (01:33:33):
the more that they can do it themselves, I think,
the better.
Yes, because these companiesreally are not offering much.
They really are not um the.
The challenge of that ismarketing, so I think what you
would need is unified marketingbecause it sounds like you're
marketing already.
Yeah, but you could.
You could have separateplatforms and unified marketing.
You don't have to own theactual interaction.

Speaker 1 (01:33:53):
You know to own the marketing, but that's just a
random thought a website, but Iuse it for forums and for

(01:34:14):
sharing information and reviewsof people.
God forbid, I have actual stuffto sell on it.
Yeah, like I will say that Ithink in-person meetings, while
scarier, is um less workintensive yeah, it could be.

Speaker 2 (01:34:27):
It's like higher risk but less work intensive.

Speaker 1 (01:34:29):
Yes, yeah, so there's that balance in sex work that
people have to find.
Oh, did we want to talk abouthow sex work doesn't really have
to include sex?

Speaker 2 (01:34:43):
Oh, I think that's really important.

Speaker 1 (01:34:44):
Yeah, I'd like to close on that.
Yeah, unless you want to talkabout more?

Speaker 2 (01:34:48):
I'll just briefly say I did sex work and never had
sex with anybody for yeah, formoney.

Speaker 1 (01:34:54):
Yeah, that's what I really want to emphasize is that
sex work does not mean that youneed to have fluid exchange.
It doesn't mean that youPenetration.
Penetration yeah.
Sex work, like how?
How do we want to define it?
Because, like, help me withthis it's work that involves a
sexual nature?
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:35:15):
Work of a sexual nature.
I think is is the broadest andmost accurate way to define it.
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:35:22):
Because, like I actually just recently, like
literally right before cominghere, as I was talking over this
interview, I didn't realize myone of my partners didn't know I
didn't have intercourse withclients.
I was like, yeah, what do youmean?
You don't know that.
I thought I told you what I doand he was like, yeah, but you
never know.
And I was like, what do youmean?

(01:35:44):
You never?
I told you dude.
I told you, dude, yeah, look atit.
Yeah, but like this was someonevery close to me, someone who
listens actually really well,but it I don't think that he
didn't hear or didn't understandout of um, maliciousness, I
think it was.
It's a genuine fear that peoplehave, or not fear, but

(01:36:04):
assumption that they makepowerful, yeah, and especially
from a romantic partner.
Right, yeah, they need to beprepared.
They need to, as much as theycan accept me for who I am and
love me for who I am.
It doesn't mean that they can't, they won't take precautions to
be safe in their own lives andI want that for them.
That's why I never want to holdback about who I am and what I

(01:36:26):
do.
Right, so I want them to dotheir own risk assessments.
I do right because I want themto do their own risk assessments
.
Um, but the fact that someonethat close to me, that educated,
that, uh, that listens thatwell, didn't know that I don't
have penetration for myself,like, like I'm taking behind
men's for sure, I'm collectingthem left and right, but that

(01:36:52):
doesn't mean that I have to takeit Like that's not, like that's
not what I've chosen to do withsex work and I'm not
disparaging anyone who does.
But if we can talk about itmore and make sex work more
accessible, because there arepeople who need to go into this
line of work because maybe theyneed the finances and they don't

(01:37:15):
have opportunities for them,but they don't have to go
straight to escorting if that'snot right for their body, if
that's not right for theiremotional capacity, because that
escorting does take a lot, andmaybe they could start with FBSM
.
Maybe they can enter intoDOMing, not fin DOMing.

(01:37:36):
That's not real.
Look me in.
The Stop asking me about finDOMing, all y'all.
What is that?
It's not real.
Like 0.0001% are into finDOMing.
Get out of my face.
It's a PSA.
I just need people to stopasking about fin-doming, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:37:57):
I get it.
Wait, have you had?

Speaker 1 (01:37:58):
that.
Oh yeah, have people asked youabout fin-doming.

Speaker 2 (01:38:01):
Yeah, it was suggested.
It's like this is what youshould be doing.
This is the thing, and it'slike well, okay.

Speaker 1 (01:38:09):
First of all, ethics is like a fucking huge question
when it comes to fin doming andyeah, I've actually declined
guests because I'm like, hey, Iactually know about your
financial situation right now,let's take a breather.
Yeah, I'd rather you keep yourhouse and then see me when
you're feeling better and doingbetter, like I'll text an email

(01:38:32):
to keep you updated.
You can look at my Instagramand stuff, but, dude, don't take
out a second mortgage to see me.
I'm not comfortable with that.
I am not comfortable with that.
And if people are OK, but maybe, like, look into your ethical
boundaries and know at whatpoint fin doming might not be
comfortable for you anymoreboundaries and know at what

(01:38:53):
point fin doming might not becomfortable for you anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:38:55):
Yeah, I, I just I've thought it through a lot.
I watched a documentary aboutit for this gal in portland who
does it, um, and, and she gave atalk about it as well, and, um,
she has some lines that shearbitrarily draws about what is
or isn't okay.

Speaker 1 (01:39:08):
Um, I don't think it's that easy, or that's not
easy and, if anything, sometimesthat work is way more than the
work we're doing.
Oh, yeah, yeah, because to getto that stage requires such a
building of trust there, like,the people who are ready to just
throw wads of cash are usuallythe people who need to throw

(01:39:30):
wads of cash and I'm not sayingit's like everyone, but
sometimes, like if you need topay someone to pay attention to
you in that regard, becausethey're just genuinely not
enjoying their time with you,right, maybe that experience is
not going to be fun for you as aprovider.

Speaker 2 (01:39:48):
Yeah, no, that's true .
True.
I think finn doming is actuallythat's worthy of its own
episode.

Speaker 1 (01:39:52):
It's a fascinating subject do you know any finn
domers?

Speaker 2 (01:39:55):
like you said you, I do I do know a secondhand
connection with somebody who's abig player in that scene and
I'm super curious.

Speaker 1 (01:40:02):
I want to know so bad I do too, because they feel
like mythical unicorns to methey do feel like mythical
unicorns and I still don'tunderstand.

Speaker 2 (01:40:11):
Even having had watched her talk and and
watching her talk through herprocess for the ethics, I still
it doesn't quite calculate to mebut, yeah, anyways all right
well, we gotta wrap up.
We could go on for three morehours.

Speaker 1 (01:40:26):
This room is really hotating like a sex worker in
church.

Speaker 2 (01:40:31):
Yeah, that's right, sweating like a sex worker in
church.
All right, Thank you so mucheverybody for listening, I hope
you enjoyed this and I'm surethat we'll be picking up this
conversation again later.
All right, kisses.
Thank you for listening to theJuicy Sex Podcast.
If you enjoyed this podcast,kindly click, like and subscribe

(01:40:52):
.
It really helps us get the wordout and we'll see you next time
.

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