August 14, 2024 • 46 mins
Can depression really sabotage your sex life and relationships? Unpack the eye-opening truths behind this connection in our latest episode. We begin by exploring a 2021 study revealing a shockingly high occurrence of sexual dysfunction among those battling major depressive disorder. Learn how symptoms like anhedonia, low self-esteem, and irritability can extinguish sexual desire, and discover the paradox of antidepressants, which can sometimes make things worse. We'll discuss strategies to counteract these side effects, such as tweaking dosages or opting for alternatives like Wellbutrin, and emphasize the vital role of empathy and understanding from partners.
Moving beyond the bedroom, we scrutinize how depression impacts memory and perception, causing past experiences to appear darker than they were. Hear personal stories about the relief gained from understanding concepts like confabulation and learned helplessness. We'll shed light on the neurological underpinnings, focusing on the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex and its importance in reward processing. This episode doesn't just stop at explanations—we delve into comprehensive treatments like therapy, medication, ketamine, and transcranial magnetic stimulation (TMS) that offer a path to restoring brain function and reclaiming life. Tune in to deepen your compassion and awareness for those navigating the labyrinth of depression.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
All of the medications I've been on have
caused sexual side effects,except for Welbutrin, which
didn't.
But, literally every singleother one has like sapped my sex
drive, or with Prozac, which Iwas on for only like 10 days, oh
wow.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
I had no tolerance.
Prozac Nation didn't get her.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
No, I was like fucking get me off this shit.
Didn't get her.
No, I was like fucking get meoff this shit.
Um, it made me unable to havean orgasm, so I would get like
done really close yeah, so closeand be like trying and trying
and trying.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
No one wants to be edged for the rest of their life
, that's what it was.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Oh gosh, no, yeah.
And then I felt this we I alsofelt like this weird tension,
like like clutching my fists andclutching my jaw.
And I was like is that becausethe orgasms can't come out?
Speaker 2 (00:49):
That's just like a tense bomb.
It's like when you're listeningto a really good song and it's
about to drop.
It's about to drop and thenjust goes back up again.
You're like what Damn it.
Come on, give me a break here.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
I want to bust a move , yeah, so yeah, I wasn't a big
fan of that one.
Welcome to the Juicy SexPodcast, where my friends and I
have raw, unfiltered andhilarious conversations about
all things sex.
I'm Alisa Eddy, the founder andCEO of Juicy Sexual Wellness,
where we try the toys and helpyou find the right one for you.
(01:23):
Now on to the podcast.
Today we're talking aboutdepression and sex and how those
two things interact and thechallenges that that involves.
I'm here with my special guest,jen.
Hello, jen, Happy to be here.
Yeah, and we're going to talkabout this depression talk.
We're going to make it fun.
(01:43):
We always do, yeah, so we'regonna talk this depression talk.
We're gonna make it fun, wealways do, um, yeah, so we're
not just talking about sex andantidepressants, we're talking
about sex and depression itselfand, um, I think this will be a
good educational experience yeahyeah I definitely am looking
forward to learning because Ithink, you know, it's affecting
(02:04):
me personally.
Yeah, so there's a lot to learn.
But before we get into ourheavy shit, we're going to talk
a little bit about our week.
Yeah, so, yeah.
So our special guest, jen, isalso a pilot, and last week she
took me up on a flight over thecity of Seattle in a little
(02:27):
airplane, and it was so fuckingcool.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Yeah, I mean, how did you feel when you were up there
?
Speaker 1 (02:34):
It felt like it felt weird, Like I was almost like I
was spying on people, but in agood way.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
It's always a weird perspective because things look
so small they do, and you don'trealize how tiny they look,
until you're in a tiny airplaneand I told you, I warned you,
you're going to feel everything,yeah, yeah.
But it was so special to me totake you up because not like my
husband, doesn't matter, but itwas my first non-husband,
non-pilot passenger passengerand so I was very vigilant in
(03:06):
making sure that I gave you allthe proper like pre-flight kind
of rundown and everything andthat it was a good day with good
weather and we got really luckywe did, it was such and it was
on.
St Patrick's Day, so, of course,luck of the Irish.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
I am Irish.
Yeah, it was great, it was socool and when I was up there I
was wondering how, like, like,how the cities and the people
that were down there would feelabout how they look from the sky
.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Yeah, maybe speaking of people's looks, I was when I
was Ubering over here.
Today the weather is getting alittle better you know like it's
it was really nice for like twoweeks in a row, and now it's
kind of like a little better.
You know like it's.
It was really nice for like twoweeks in a row and now it's
kind of like a little dull, kindof rainy, but it's still
getting warmer, and so you starthearing birds chirping and
people coming out of thewoodwork with the most
(03:54):
interesting outfits put together.
It's all about layers here right.
I mean, I saw a lady she waswearing like a REI windbreaker
or whatever and she had like apleated skirt on with leggings
and like hiking boots.
I wasn't sure what was going onthere, but I'm like, all right,
girl, you're trying, You'relike spring is coming, you know
it's very Seattle.
Yeah, yeah, I feel like that islike a staple of what what the
(04:15):
Seattle fashion is.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
It is like we have I mean really we.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Our weather is basically a long ass fall and a
long ass spring it's so true,here you get a little sun,
you'll know, because you'll feelreally cracked out.
I know because I was likeworking and I was feeling so
like just jittery and antsy andI was like I didn't have any
coffee and I'm like what's goingon?
And I'm like, oh, the sun, yeah, the sun is pumping energy into
(04:41):
me, right?
Speaker 1 (04:41):
now, because I have really big windows.
That makes sense.
Yep, so sun is new.
We have people out, like youknow, laying out in the sun on a
60 degree day.
That's what we do in Seattle.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Yeah, just take it when you can.
Every little bit, yeah, andweather really affects your mood
too.
Like people get seasonalaffective disorder here, right,
sad, yeah, yeah, sad, and Ididn't know what sad was until I
moved to Seattle.
To be honest, oh, you didn't,oh, um, I just thought sad was.
Just something bad happened.
You felt sad, but it's like alegit thing.
(05:14):
Like because of the lack of sunand everything through the
winter and a lot of the spring,yeah, um.
So I mean, yeah, it's, it'ssomething that people need to
pay attention to for sure, likepeople get happy lights.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
I know, I just actually ordered one, did you?
Speaker 2 (05:31):
I did.
I would love to hear yourreview on it because it made me
feel cracked out, Like I thinkit gave me too much energy, Like
I ended up feeling almost likeanxiety.
But it really works for peopleI know some of our friends use
it.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Yeah, some people, you know, use it and love it.
I don't know.
I thought I would try it outbecause I've just been dragging
ass, so it's at least onepossible solution.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Yeah, Also I need a workout.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
I mean, right, that's we'll talk about.
We'll actually get to that.
Yeah, it's, it's hard.
It's hard when you're comingout of winter in the Pacific
Northwest.
So I want to talk a little bitabout the intention today.
We're talking about sex anddepression, and the idea here is
to help people who havedepression understand and have
(06:21):
compassion for themselves, andthen to help people who don't
have depression, who maybe havepartners or friends who have it,
develop more understanding andempathy of the experience, and
that's what we're looking for.
So that's our intention today.
Good, yeah, so I'll talk alittle bit about.
(06:42):
You know my history I havetreatment-resistant depression.
So I'll talk a little bit aboutyou know my history I have
treatment-resistant depression.
I have been on Welbutrin,prozac, effexor, lexapro, loveox
, rexulti, vrylar, abilify,trintelix.
I've been on so many things,and all the meds except for
(07:06):
wellbutrin have caused me weightgain, which is frustrating.
And then, um, I feel like Ihave to choose sometimes between
, you know, my physical healthor my mental health, and then we
add in, my sexual health, yeah,right.
So these are really toughtradeoffs that we're trying to
navigate, but I, for me,wellbutrin is helpful, but it's
(07:31):
not enough, and so I've beenworking with my psychiatrist to
try and find something to add tothat.
That makes it enough.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
So, yeah, I was.
You know, I've been with apartner that has MDD major
depressive disorder and at firstwas on Lexapro and it really
was not working.
It actually made this personfeel worse, almost, because it's
like a mood stabilizer more sothan an activator, oh yeah, and
so, through talking with friendsand everything like that, got
(08:02):
on butrin and that has been muchbetter.
But, you know, navigating someof the desire and the sex and
all of that has been somethingnew.
Yeah, but the fact that thisperson is feeling better, yeah,
is good.
Yeah, it's a, it's a startthat's huge.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
I you, when I was on lero, I didn't feel like myself.
I felt really weird.
Yeah, it didn't work for me.
Yeah, I think I was on it forlike six weeks and that was like
not great.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
I think that's about how long my partner was on it
for yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Yeah yeah, it was a big no-go.
A lot of people have good luckwith it, so you know good for
them.
Um, for me also, all of themedications I've been on have
caused sexual side effects.
Um, except for welbutrin, whichdidn't, but literally every
single other one has like sappedmy sex drive.
(08:57):
Or with prozac, which I was onfor only like 10 days.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Oh wow, no tolerance.
Prozac Nation didn't get her.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
No, I was like fucking get me off this shit.
It made me unable to have anorgasm, so I would get like
really close, so close and belike trying and trying and
trying.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
No one wants to be edged for the rest of their life
, that's what it was oh gosh, noyeah.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
No one wants to be edged for the rest of their life
.
That's what it was oh gosh, no,yeah.
And then I felt this weird.
I also felt like this weirdtension, like clutching my fist
and clutching my jaw.
And I was like is that becausethe orgasms can't come out?
Speaker 2 (09:35):
That's just like a tense bomb yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
It's like when you're listening to a really good song
and it's like it's about to todrop, it's about to drop and
then just goes back up again.
You're like what damn it?
Come on, give me a break here,I want to bust a move, yeah.
So.
Yeah, I wasn't a big fan ofthat one, um, but uh.
So part of my journey is I havea family member who has
psychotic depression and Ididn't know that was a thing and
really none of us in the familydid.
And this person was havinghallucinations and paranoid
(10:11):
delusions, and I mean socompelling and realistic to the
point that they were calling thepolice about things that they
had hallucinated.
Oh man, that's hard, yeah, itwas really like a scary tough
thing, and so, thankfully, theyended up getting, you know, I
(10:31):
think, a year later, a fullworkup from a professional, you
know psych analysis, like awhole day of testing.
They found was it's notschizophrenia, it's not dementia
?
Um, what it is is it'spsychotic depression, and it's
from being depressed for so longand untreated that your brain
(10:54):
starts to do some crazy stuffjust to survive, just to like
cope.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Yeah, I mean it.
It's.
It's crazy.
It's good that we havemedication now and it's crazy
how much there still is even in2024, a stigma with mental
health and and I want to say afew things about mental health
care- health care in thiscountry.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
This is the time.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
They just make it so hard.
It is your brain, it's part ofit's physiological it's.
You know it's an ailment likeany other ailment, you know, and
it's OK to need help to makeyour brain function properly
Like you're.
Sometimes people's brainchemistry is off and it doesn't
mean that their whole self isoff.
(11:43):
They're a great person, theydeserve to be here, they deserve
to be happy, like I think thatthat is so important and people
get scared to seek help and theyget scared to go on medication
because of stigmas or justbecause it's so fucking hard.
They make it so hard, you know,like I remember for my partner
last year when things werereally bad, I was on the phone
(12:05):
for like four to six hours a dayfor a few days just trying to
find the right psychiatrist,just trying to find a general
practitioner that would takethis person in and just at least
see them and hear them, and itwas just jumping through flaming
hoops, no-transcript.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
No, A partner who will be that helpful, but B,
maybe not a partner at all.
Right, and we're going to talkabout in a little bit how
exactly what you're talkingabout like having the
persistence to go through andmake all those calls and do all
those things are really hardthings to do for a depressed
brain.
It's so hard, it's extrafucking hard.
(13:14):
And I know I hear peopletalking about you know a person
that they know that hasdepression and they'll be like
why don't they just do this?
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Yeah, because you're sad person that they know that
has depression, and they'll belike why don't they just do this
?
Yeah, because you're sad andjust imagine like being really
sad and being in bed and be like, yeah, I'm sad, I barely want
to like live.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
But yeah, let me like put some effort in like call
the doctor right now, like fuckthat Right, exactly.
And it's actually the part oftheir brain that anticipates
rewards from their actions andthe part of their brain that is
executive function is reallydialed down when you're
(13:52):
depressed and so you kind ofcan't do these things that are
basic, like make the phone calls, find the therapist.
That is so hard for a depressedbrain to do, especially when
there's a shortage of therapists.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
It's really hard on the first time so you got to
date therapists to find theright one and that's so much
effort.
So you know when someone'salready feeling kind of stuck
(14:35):
and like hopeless, like it'shard to take that step, you know
, and I just feel like it shouldbe easier for them.
Yeah, I agree.
I don't know what the solutionis, but I agree with the problem
.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
And I'm not here to like find years and we were
great and then I moved and itwas too far away.
Yada, yada, yada.
And ever since then I've nothad really anybody for longer
than six months and it's beenhard because people will be in
or out of a certain practice oryou know, or an app or whatever.
So it's hard to get thatlong-term treatment relationship
(15:28):
right now.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
That's interesting, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Yeah, so basically for me, because of my family
member who had thetreatment-resistant depression,
I realized I shouldn't besettling for my undertreated
depression, and so I startedexploring more things and I was
looking into TMS, which istranscranial magnetic
(15:53):
stimulation.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Oh, which, yeah, sounds really important.
I know we had a couple friendsdo that.
We have, yeah, we've had, andit's worked.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Yeah, and when I first heard about this I thought
it was like witchcraft, yeah,like hocus pocus like tms.
I'm like you're like but itturns out it's fda approved as a
treatment for depression um solike it actually works.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
It's's an FDA approved tin hat.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Exactly here, doctor.
I'm here to hear your beepstoday.
Make me feel better, yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
So the TMS I started looking into, like how does that
work?
What the fuck's going on?
Why can't we just put magnetson someone's head?
I got a fridge, I got magnets.
Right, I'm like what's going onhere?
And so I found out the part ofthe brain that they target is
your left dorsolateralprefrontal cortex Say that five
(16:50):
times.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Yeah right, oh my God , I'm very impressed.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
That's probably the only time I'll be able to say it
Very good Is very much involvedin mood.
It's very much involved inunderstanding reward systems and
(17:17):
it's very much involved in yourexecutive function.
Or LDLPFC left dorsolateralprefrontal cortex is like
heavily involved with depressionand that's why they focus the
TMS.
There is really interesting.
So I started digging into whatis going on with that part of
(17:38):
the brain.
Why does it matter so much fordepression?
And it's really interesting.
So a lot of the times, peoplewith depression, they seem stuck
right.
So if they could just take acertain action, or if you could
(17:59):
just exercise, or if you couldjust do this or that, it would
probably help things.
Right.
But the part of tell themselvesthis is an important thing to
do, I'm gonna do it, is likedialed back.
Yeah, literally.
So it's uh, it's extra fuckinghard for them to take action.
(18:21):
Yeah, and it's people who aren'tdepressed have to remember that
.
So when you say I've talked tomy friend who's depressed, like
it's been like six months, andevery time we talk she says I
should get a therapist, and thenshe doesn't have one by the
time we're together the nexttime and it's like, well, that's
because the part of her brainthat would take that on is just
(18:42):
not working.
Um, so I thought that wasreally interesting.
To just that is interestingright, it's like neurocircuitry.
Yeah, yeah, um and especiallyyeah, yeah, and especially
coming off of COVID, in regardsto the left dorsolateral
prefrontal cortex.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
I wish I could help you there.
Left dorsolateral prefrontalcortex.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Yeah, so there's this dynamic in depression that's
common, which is called learnedhelplessness, and oh yeah, it's
right, just the name sounds sad.
It is sad and it originatesfrom animal studies in the 70s.
(19:29):
What they discovered was thatwhen someone is exposed to
something really negative thatthey have no control over, so
they'll try things to make it goaway and they can't.
What happens is they stoptrying and they have cognitive
(19:49):
deficits.
So after, after they're exposedto like I think it's like a low
, low scale electric shock thatthey can't make it stop.
Then they give them puzzles tosolve and their brains are not
working as well.
Wow, yeah, so it's.
It's literally fucking withyour own ability to get through
(20:11):
the situation that you're in.
Wow, yeah, and so the more thatyour depression is related to
things that were beyond yourcontrol the more that you
experience that learnedhelplessness.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
How do you have you read anything about what kind of
therapy they do to helpmitigate that?
Or just kind of like, crawl outof that rut, like because
there's obviously differentkinds of people get depressed
for different ways and I feellike there's a lot of people
that get it from things theycan't control.
Yeah, you know, and so I'm kindof just wondering is there
something I can learn?
(20:55):
I guess one of the things I'mwondering is, as a partner of
someone who has MDD, what can Ido to help them and be really
proactive, proactive?
and supportive, but you know,like I could always learn more,
just so I can understand moreand have more compassion, you
(21:17):
know?
And yeah, in these certainsituations I just find it really
interesting.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
You're finding out really interesting things about
the brain and yeah, differentkinds of depression there is
yeah, I know, because I know forme with my depression, when
it's not when I'm not treated um, my brain doesn't work.
I can tell my brain isn'tworking like I'm a brain fog.
Yeah, I know.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
You, just like you know that you know something but
you can't access it, or youknow you and then you're like I
don't know anything, right, I'mstupid and you know, even though
, like you, probably have adouble master's degree and a PhD
.
I'm giving like an example, butlike you know it's, you just
(22:00):
end up telling yourself thesestories in your head that aren't
true and it just kind ofcompounds it.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
It does, yeah, which that brings up this really
interesting thing that I learnedabout from a podcast.
They were talking aboutdepression.
I'd never heard anybody talkabout this before and it was
really transformative for me tohear about it and they talked
about confabulation as a featureof depression, and so I think
(22:27):
of hocus pocus oh, let'sconfabulate, but confabulation
here I have a definition.
Okay, it's a neuropsychiatricdisorder wherein a patient
(22:48):
generates a false memory withoutthe intention of deceit, ah,
mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
So basically— Don't you get fake memories, you're
confabulating.
That's what I'm going to saynext time it happens.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Exactly, yep, yeah.
So basically what will happenis we have our memory and then
we have the blank spaces in ourmemory.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Right.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
We have our memory and then we have the blank
spaces in our memory, right, andso people with depression it's
a common feature that they willfill in happen with a partner
that I've been with Like, yeah,yeah, and it's not that they're
being deceitful or trying tofuck with you, it's that they
really believe, yeah, these kindof like false memories that,
wow, that their brain's creating, and they're usually narratives
that are very sad.
When you're depressed, they'revery negative.
Um, even something like ifyou're depressed and you're
looking back on your wedding day, and maybe on your wedding day
you're like this day is fuckinggreat, I had such a good time.
And then, 10 day, you're likethis day is fucking great, I had
such a good time.
And then, 10 years later,you're super depressed and
you're thinking about it and allyou remember is what went wrong
(24:19):
and you might be like, yeah, no, I had a terrible day, it was
awful, and it's not you justbeing a dick, it's that your
brain is saying that's the truth.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Yeah, I mean, I feel like this happens with a lot of
people.
I almost now that I'm hearingwhat this is like.
Sometimes I can tell myselfstories in my head and only look
at the negative things.
When I I'm really working onlike redirecting those thoughts,
you know like over the yearsI've gotten a lot better at it,
but you just you tell yourself,like this story that's negative,
(24:52):
about something that's reallyfun and positive and happy, and
like one thing went wrong maybe,and it's not even that big of a
deal, and you're like the wholething sucked yeah.
And that's what happens.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Yeah, and that's what happens to people who are
depressed, like extra, so muchmore.
And so I think I know fromexperience of times when I was
not depressed but I had friendsor partners that were, and maybe
we went out and had a reallyfucking fun day and they were
finally acting happy and I waslike yay, like oh, this is so
(25:25):
cool.
And then we would talk about itlater and they'd be like I
didn't have that much fun, itwasn't great, you know.
And I'd be like you know, I'mthinking you're being an asshole
.
That's not true, you werefinally happy right.
But their brain is telling themthat the truth is we did not
have fun, even though that mightnot be what actually happened,
(25:48):
and so obviously the point ofthis is not like hey, go
gaslight your depressed friendsA fucking terrible outcome.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
That's not the lesson to take away, folks.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
No please don't take that lesson.
But I think the idea is, whenpeople either haven't had
depression or don't know muchabout it and they hear depressed
people talking, it's temptingto be like, well, they should
just see things from a differentperspective, just look at
things from a positive light.
(26:19):
And it's actually they can't.
Their brain is doing somethingelse.
And, um, for me, learning aboutthat was kind of scary because
it's like, holy shit, like Imight have made up memories of
bad things.
But also it was a fucking hugerelief for me because I was
(26:43):
having depressive thoughts about, like I don't have any future,
this, it's inevitable thatyou're gonna have a terrible
life.
Things like that felt veryfucking true to me.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
They felt like the absolute truth, and when I
learned that I was like, oh,maybe I can question that and
not live under that belief oh mygosh, that is like a huge veil
lifted you know, just knowingthe why, like I feel like the
(27:16):
unknown is so scary and like,once you feel like you know why
something is happening, you canbe like, oh, now I can examine
this and see a way out.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Exactly and I can question it.
I can, I can not, you know,because you know in the
depressed mind the worstthoughts feel like the truest
ones and you know if you're areasonably smart person you're
not going to just not trust yourown thoughts helpful to be like
(27:50):
wait, actually, you truly havelike a lens that's so distorting
of reality and all those superhopeless, sad thoughts that
you're having that feel so realmight not be real, yeah and um
yeah.
For me that was like a big ahamoment and it also I mean in
(28:14):
terms of the family member thathas psychotic depression.
I also recognized that patternwith that person because they
would have social interactionsand then have like really
elaborate conspiracy theories,but all of those conspiracy
theories always were likeresulting in reality being that
(28:36):
everyone was against her oreveryone didn't like her or
everyone was trying to harm her.
So these really just negativeoutcomes is it was what her
interpretation was of reality,and I remember sitting with her
and trying to talk with her andtrying to use logic and be like
but do you really think thatsomeone who you know just like
(28:58):
sent a Christmas card two dayslate, wants you to get murdered?
Oh, man.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
Not quite that bad, but I'd murder him.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
How dare you?
Right, I mean not quite thatbad, but kind of.
And and she was reallyconvinced that these
explanations that she hadcreated were the truth.
And I feel like I finallyunderstand her and what she was
going through and, you know,knowing that that's a feature of
depression, just kind of blewmy mind, and hopefully that
(29:32):
helps with the lonelinessfeeling too, when you feel so
isolated and alone and you knowlike you're not necessarily
alone.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
But you just feel lonely.
Alone is different than lonely,and I feel like when you
understand your own brain more,maybe you just won't feel as
lonely, because you're like ohokay, well, this is happening
because I've been oppressed forquite some time and maybe I
(30:01):
shouldn't believe the stories inmy head.
Yeah, and maybe I need torewrite that narrative and start
listing off things that areactually good and going well and
start adding good things to mylife slowly.
Yeah, to try to like come outof that.
You know, and it's I mean, it'seasier said than done, but the
smallest, smallest things.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
Yeah, any little good thing that you can add is good,
and I do.
I relate to for me now that Iknow that that is part of how my
brain is going to kind of fuckwith me when I'm depressed.
That is part of how my brain isgoing to kind of fuck with me
when I'm depressed.
When I do, I do sometimes feellonely or alone, which is now.
I am like hold on, let'schallenge that.
(30:43):
Yeah, you actually have like ahuge, vibrant community.
You have a lot of close friends.
You are so not alone and Ithink just knowing that my mind
can trick me yeah, knowing thatmy mind can trick me into
believing that's the truth,helps me have the discipline to
(31:04):
question it.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
Good, yeah, I want to hug you right now, oh here.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Long distance hugs, oh yeah.
So let me tell you a story.
I was really excited to buy anew clit sucking toy.
So I went to the world'slargest online sex toy retailer
and I found hundreds of optionswith no indication which ones
(31:30):
are quality and which ones areright for me.
So I had to make my best guess.
I ordered the toy, got it inthe mail, super excited to try
it, and bummer, it's way toostrong, even on the lowest
setting, Turns out I can't evenuse it and I wasted 80 bucks.
So I throw it in my nightstandand a couple months later I look
(31:53):
to discover that it hasactually melted into another sex
toy in my nightstand.
I was so mad I decided to startmy own sex toy company, Juicy.
At Juicy we sell a highlycurated selection of body safe
sex toys and we test them sothat we can give you all the
(32:15):
deets about whether or not it'sright for you, such as how
strong or gentle it is, how loudis it and how easy is it to
operate.
So support this podcast and buyyour next sex toy at
getjuicycom.
That's G-E-T-J-O-O-S-Icom,Getjuicycom, G-E-T-J-O-O-S-Icom,
(32:38):
hex.
(32:59):
So basically, major depressivedisorder which I have, which I
think you know somebody who hasthat and whatnot is.
It's a persistently depressedmood, long-term loss of pleasure
and interest in life, oftenincluding disturbed sleep,
feelings of guilt or inadequacyand suicidal thoughts, and that
affects 8 to 10 percent ofAmericans every year.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
Which is pretty alarming.
It's a lot of people.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
That's a lot of people.
That's a lot of people that aresuffering, and so, you know,
check on your friends, right?
Yeah, yeah, even the strongones, mm-hmm yeah especially the
strong ones.
Right, yeah, for sure.
So I came across a study in2022 and this was of people with
major depressive disorder whowere not taking medication, and
(33:49):
eighty two point seven, fivepercent of the women were
experiencing sexual dysfunction.
82.75% of the women wereexperiencing sexual dysfunction.
Wow, just from the depression.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
I mean it kind of makes sense Like you don't have
desire for much else.
Why?
Why sex?
Sex is something that you getexcited about.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
I mean literally you know.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
So if you're just kind of like blah, yeah.
Your capacity to get excited isfucked up, and it affects your
energy too.
Right like you need energy forsex.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
Yeah, you do, yeah so , and then it was 63.26 percent
of men experiencing sexualdysfunction.
That's just due to thedepressive disorder, and then we
all know antidepressants add tothat.
Um, but I think it's importantto understand types of sexual
dysfunction.
So that includes arousal.
(34:41):
So that's like the blood flowto your sexual organs Like are
they getting engorged?
Are they excited?
Desire, right, do I want tofuck?
Lubrication for women, sowhether or not, you know, juices
start flowing.
And then your orgasm.
So that's like like when I wason Prozac and I couldn't have an
(35:03):
orgasm.
That was crazy.
And then your sexualsatisfaction overall.
And then, of course, theequivalent for men on the
lubrication thing is is erection?
Equivalent for men on thelubrication thing is erection.
But all of those things, all ofthose things, it's like a chain
.
So if one part of it breaks, thewhole thing breaks yeah yeah,
right, so it's pretty tricky soI think so the ways that
(35:32):
depression is fucking with sexis a lot of how we see ourselves
and how we see our partners andwith ourselves.
Depression causes lowself-esteem, often weight gain,
either from inactivity or frommedications, and then low energy
(35:53):
.
So you're just kind of like youknow, like sex would be great
but I don't have the energy todo it.
And then what I think wasinteresting in the research I
was doing was the how we see ourpartners part, which for me, I
learned recently thatirritability is a big feature of
my depression.
I did not know that until Istarted taking a new
(36:15):
antidepressant and all of asudden I was like not not not
irritable.
And I had really just thoughtwell, that's just how I am, I
guess, just deal with it.
And when that went away, it waslike noticeable to me and to my
partner and we were like, oh,I'm not pissed all the time, so
(36:36):
that's great.
But yeah, if you're irritablefrom depression, you're going to
have more conflict with yourpartner and conflict means less
sex?
Yeah, right, yeah, so that wasan interesting one for me to
learn.
And then also you have thatnegative lens, so everything is
kind of dark and cloudy and badand you put that on your partner
(36:58):
, and so you look at them with anegative lens and you think
they are interesting, and isthis the unmedicated people
still, or this is also medicated?
Speaker 2 (37:07):
this?
Speaker 1 (37:07):
is just like depression itself.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
So you can think of it a desire thing like I don't
(37:38):
know if I'm negatively looked ator if I negative or I know that
this person can sometimesnegatively look at themselves.
But like you know, like I wouldget told that, you know, like
they do want to do things, theyjust and their brain fog is gone
because they're on Wilbutrinnow and things are going better,
(38:00):
you know, with energy and focusand some of the things that
brought them joy before and thatgives me joy and I'm really
happy to see that.
But the sex stuff hasn't comeyet.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
It's been very few and far between you know.
So it's like how do you?
I don't?
there's been a couple timeswhere you know we would try to
do something and he would bekind of in the mood and then it
would just turn off like in themiddle or just before, and then
it just wouldn't happen and thenhe'd get really upset yeah and
(38:36):
just like, kind of like, justshut down, yeah, and I I would
be like it's okay, you know,like trying to reassure this
person, like it's okay, like wecan take it slow, like just do
things that bring you joy and wecan cuddle and do other things.
You know, like we don'tnecessarily need to go straight
(38:58):
to penetration, but like I don'twant to push it on this person
and because I don't like them tomake them feel bad.
And I've been told you can fuckanyone, you know, but I don't
want to, Not when my.
You know, like not when thingsare.
(39:18):
We're still figuring stuff outin our relationship.
To me, like if we had an openrelationship and things like
that, to me it's like anadditive to a relationship.
You know, it's something thatyou add that makes you feel good
, feel good.
(39:38):
So I'm just kind of wonderingwhat I can do, like to I don't
know meet, meet this personhalfway or and not make them
feel bad.
Or you know how long certainmedications usually take to get
your sex drive back or any of it.
Or just like does life lookdifferent now and we just figure
out other stuff, like do youhave any?
As someone with depression, doyou have any insight on that um?
Speaker 1 (39:59):
I do.
I know for me, if I have aneffective antidepressant on
board, I would say like 8 to 12weeks, like I will start to
notice my interest in sexpicking up again.
Um, I think the key thing is tokeep the physical intimacy so
(40:23):
like maybe there's not as muchsex for a little while, but
there's a lot of cuddling andtouching and and we do that yeah
, so that you don't becomestrangers to each other yeah,
that I'm afraid of like lately,like we do have a lot of
physical touch and everything isgood there.
Speaker 2 (40:43):
Um, you know, I guess I just been having like weird
nightmares of like disconnectionand stuff, because maybe I'm
just worried about it.
Yeah, I'm not in a relationshipjust for sex.
Right, I'm not in arelationship just for sex.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
Don't judge me yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:08):
I just need it still, you know, and I would like some
light at the end of theproverbial tunnel, you know,
when the train comes through,yeah, but I don't want to be
like pushing it, you know, Idon't want it to feel forced, I
(41:29):
want it to be fun and naturaland stuff.
But you know like, and Iactually feel happy with what's
going on right now, you know,and I have toys, you know, but I
think we're just we got tofigure it out.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
Yeah, and I think for me and I don't I don't know if
your partner is similar or not,but I know for me, before this
depression kind of had its gripson me, um, I was very sexually
responsive, so like someinitiation, whatever, I was like
good to go all the time, reallyfast, um, and now it just like
(42:09):
it takes a lot longer, like amuch longer period of foreplay,
I guess, of like touch andintimacy and closeness and like
eventually I will want to, butit's just a lot more of that
that I need to get to that point, and so maybe that is something
(42:29):
that could be helpful.
Yeah, yeah that is somethingthat could be helpful.
Yeah, yeah, and you know whereI as the depressed person and I
relate to what you were talkingabout with with your partner,
you get frustrated because yourbody's not responding and you
want to want to and like it'skind of like you're living like
behind a curtain, like you havethis partner out there and you
want to connect to them and youwant to want to do the thing,
(42:53):
but you you just kind of can'tand um it's.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
It's really frustrating and if you're used
to being really responsivesexually, it's extra fucking
frustrating yeah, and it's likeI don't want, I don't want
anyone to feel like they'redisappointing me, right when
they already feel like adisappointment.
You know, like I really don'tfeel disappointed.
(43:19):
Am I a little sexuallyfrustrated?
Sure, I'm human right.
But I'm not frustrated with theperson, I'm not disappointed
with the person.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
Let's just find other ways to connect, you know, and
it's just gonna take a while,yeah I think having some, some
creativity of different ways tolike start initiating touch that
is longer lasting and stuff asas foreplay, and then hopefully
having your partner be patientwith themselves that it's okay,
it's gonna take you that'sactually a really good point.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
Having them be patient with themselves, that's
a good point.
Yeah, because it's like it'sokay, like you can slow, you can
be slow, it's fine.
Like don't think that you haveto like pitch a tent right away.
Speaker 1 (44:04):
Yeah, With the slightest breeze.
For me that happens, like Ifeel like if I'm not responding,
um, as quickly as I used to, Iget frustrated with myself and
I'm like I didn't want to dothis and I'll pull the plug.
Um, but I've learned that whenI hang in there and like, let's
(44:29):
you know, maybe dial it back afew levels for a little while
and stuff that it helps, and sohaving your partner understand,
like your brain's just in adifferent space.
Right now your circuitry isworking differently and you need
a longer ramp up, and so justbe patient with yourself.
Speaker 2 (44:47):
You're not going to put it with a brace and that's
OK.
Speaker 1 (44:51):
And I think that's a huge component because I know
for me it's often, you know,something sexual will start and
it's like I feel like I'mpulling the ripcord out of
frustration with myself.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
Yeah, yeah, I can see that.
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
Yeah, yeah, all right , so we have talked your ears
off, which?
Speaker 2 (45:13):
is great, I learned some new words today.
Oh good what.
The left dorsolateralprefrontal cortex and the
confabulation Confabulationsisters.
Speaker 1 (45:27):
Let's confabulate.
Yeah, so this has been anawesome conversation.
Thank you for coming andtalking about your experience as
a partner of somebody withdepression.
I think that's a hugelyimportant perspective that I
don't think ever gets talkedabout, honestly.
Speaker 2 (45:45):
Yeah, we need a hug just as much as the person
that's depressed, to be honest,for sure, because you're holding
it up for two.
Speaker 1 (45:51):
Yeah, yeah, you're holding it up for two right now
and that's really hard.
So I really appreciate youcoming in and sharing that
experience.
I think a lot of people willrelate and be relieved to know
that they're not alone, and Ihope that my experience with
depression has helped some ofyou feel less alone, yeah.
That just like to help youunderstand yourself and know
(46:11):
that you're not alone.
All right, so that is theconclusion of the trisexual
depression and sex episode.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (46:22):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (46:25):
Thank you for listening to the Juicy Sex
Podcast.
If you enjoyed this podcast,kindly click like and subscribe.
It really helps us get the wordout and we'll see you next time
.
All of the medications I've been on have
caused sexual side effects,except for Welbutrin, which
didn't.
But, literally every singleother one has like sapped my sex
drive, or with Prozac, which Iwas on for only like 10 days, oh
wow.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
I had no tolerance.
Prozac Nation didn't get her.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
No, I was like fucking get me off this shit.
Didn't get her.
No, I was like fucking get meoff this shit.
Um, it made me unable to havean orgasm, so I would get like
done really close yeah, so closeand be like trying and trying
and trying.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
No one wants to be edged for the rest of their life
, that's what it was.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Oh gosh, no, yeah.
And then I felt this we I alsofelt like this weird tension,
like like clutching my fists andclutching my jaw.
And I was like is that becausethe orgasms can't come out?
Speaker 2 (00:49):
That's just like a tense bomb.
It's like when you're listeningto a really good song and it's
about to drop.
It's about to drop and thenjust goes back up again.
You're like what Damn it.
Come on, give me a break here.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
I want to bust a move , yeah, so yeah, I wasn't a big
fan of that one.
Welcome to the Juicy SexPodcast, where my friends and I
have raw, unfiltered andhilarious conversations about
all things sex.
I'm Alisa Eddy, the founder andCEO of Juicy Sexual Wellness,
where we try the toys and helpyou find the right one for you.
(01:23):
Now on to the podcast.
Today we're talking aboutdepression and sex and how those
two things interact and thechallenges that that involves.
I'm here with my special guest,jen.
Hello, jen, Happy to be here.
Yeah, and we're going to talkabout this depression talk.
We're going to make it fun.
(01:43):
We always do, yeah, so we'regonna talk this depression talk.
We're gonna make it fun, wealways do, um, yeah, so we're
not just talking about sex andantidepressants, we're talking
about sex and depression itselfand, um, I think this will be a
good educational experience yeahyeah I definitely am looking
forward to learning because Ithink, you know, it's affecting
(02:04):
me personally.
Yeah, so there's a lot to learn.
But before we get into ourheavy shit, we're going to talk
a little bit about our week.
Yeah, so, yeah.
So our special guest, jen, isalso a pilot, and last week she
took me up on a flight over thecity of Seattle in a little
(02:27):
airplane, and it was so fuckingcool.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Yeah, I mean, how did you feel when you were up there
?
Speaker 1 (02:34):
It felt like it felt weird, Like I was almost like I
was spying on people, but in agood way.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
It's always a weird perspective because things look
so small they do, and you don'trealize how tiny they look,
until you're in a tiny airplaneand I told you, I warned you,
you're going to feel everything,yeah, yeah.
But it was so special to me totake you up because not like my
husband, doesn't matter, but itwas my first non-husband,
non-pilot passenger passengerand so I was very vigilant in
(03:06):
making sure that I gave you allthe proper like pre-flight kind
of rundown and everything andthat it was a good day with good
weather and we got really luckywe did, it was such and it was
on.
St Patrick's Day, so, of course,luck of the Irish.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
I am Irish.
Yeah, it was great, it was socool and when I was up there I
was wondering how, like, like,how the cities and the people
that were down there would feelabout how they look from the sky
.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Yeah, maybe speaking of people's looks, I was when I
was Ubering over here.
Today the weather is getting alittle better you know like it's
it was really nice for like twoweeks in a row, and now it's
kind of like a little better.
You know like it's.
It was really nice for like twoweeks in a row and now it's
kind of like a little dull, kindof rainy, but it's still
getting warmer, and so you starthearing birds chirping and
people coming out of thewoodwork with the most
(03:54):
interesting outfits put together.
It's all about layers here right.
I mean, I saw a lady she waswearing like a REI windbreaker
or whatever and she had like apleated skirt on with leggings
and like hiking boots.
I wasn't sure what was going onthere, but I'm like, all right,
girl, you're trying, You'relike spring is coming, you know
it's very Seattle.
Yeah, yeah, I feel like that islike a staple of what what the
(04:15):
Seattle fashion is.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
It is like we have I mean really we.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Our weather is basically a long ass fall and a
long ass spring it's so true,here you get a little sun,
you'll know, because you'll feelreally cracked out.
I know because I was likeworking and I was feeling so
like just jittery and antsy andI was like I didn't have any
coffee and I'm like what's goingon?
And I'm like, oh, the sun, yeah, the sun is pumping energy into
(04:41):
me, right?
Speaker 1 (04:41):
now, because I have really big windows.
That makes sense.
Yep, so sun is new.
We have people out, like youknow, laying out in the sun on a
60 degree day.
That's what we do in Seattle.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Yeah, just take it when you can.
Every little bit, yeah, andweather really affects your mood
too.
Like people get seasonalaffective disorder here, right,
sad, yeah, yeah, sad, and Ididn't know what sad was until I
moved to Seattle.
To be honest, oh, you didn't,oh, um, I just thought sad was.
Just something bad happened.
You felt sad, but it's like alegit thing.
(05:14):
Like because of the lack of sunand everything through the
winter and a lot of the spring,yeah, um.
So I mean, yeah, it's, it'ssomething that people need to
pay attention to for sure, likepeople get happy lights.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
I know, I just actually ordered one, did you?
Speaker 2 (05:31):
I did.
I would love to hear yourreview on it because it made me
feel cracked out, Like I thinkit gave me too much energy, Like
I ended up feeling almost likeanxiety.
But it really works for peopleI know some of our friends use
it.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Yeah, some people, you know, use it and love it.
I don't know.
I thought I would try it outbecause I've just been dragging
ass, so it's at least onepossible solution.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Yeah, Also I need a workout.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
I mean, right, that's we'll talk about.
We'll actually get to that.
Yeah, it's, it's hard.
It's hard when you're comingout of winter in the Pacific
Northwest.
So I want to talk a little bitabout the intention today.
We're talking about sex anddepression, and the idea here is
to help people who havedepression understand and have
(06:21):
compassion for themselves, andthen to help people who don't
have depression, who maybe havepartners or friends who have it,
develop more understanding andempathy of the experience, and
that's what we're looking for.
So that's our intention today.
Good, yeah, so I'll talk alittle bit about.
(06:42):
You know my history I havetreatment-resistant depression.
So I'll talk a little bit aboutyou know my history I have
treatment-resistant depression.
I have been on Welbutrin,prozac, effexor, lexapro, loveox
, rexulti, vrylar, abilify,trintelix.
I've been on so many things,and all the meds except for
(07:06):
wellbutrin have caused me weightgain, which is frustrating.
And then, um, I feel like Ihave to choose sometimes between
, you know, my physical healthor my mental health, and then we
add in, my sexual health, yeah,right.
So these are really toughtradeoffs that we're trying to
navigate, but I, for me,wellbutrin is helpful, but it's
(07:31):
not enough, and so I've beenworking with my psychiatrist to
try and find something to add tothat.
That makes it enough.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
So, yeah, I was.
You know, I've been with apartner that has MDD major
depressive disorder and at firstwas on Lexapro and it really
was not working.
It actually made this personfeel worse, almost, because it's
like a mood stabilizer more sothan an activator, oh yeah, and
so, through talking with friendsand everything like that, got
(08:02):
on butrin and that has been muchbetter.
But, you know, navigating someof the desire and the sex and
all of that has been somethingnew.
Yeah, but the fact that thisperson is feeling better, yeah,
is good.
Yeah, it's a, it's a startthat's huge.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
I you, when I was on lero, I didn't feel like myself.
I felt really weird.
Yeah, it didn't work for me.
Yeah, I think I was on it forlike six weeks and that was like
not great.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
I think that's about how long my partner was on it
for yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Yeah yeah, it was a big no-go.
A lot of people have good luckwith it, so you know good for
them.
Um, for me also, all of themedications I've been on have
caused sexual side effects.
Um, except for welbutrin, whichdidn't, but literally every
single other one has like sappedmy sex drive.
(08:57):
Or with prozac, which I was onfor only like 10 days.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Oh wow, no tolerance.
Prozac Nation didn't get her.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
No, I was like fucking get me off this shit.
It made me unable to have anorgasm, so I would get like
really close, so close and belike trying and trying and
trying.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
No one wants to be edged for the rest of their life
, that's what it was oh gosh, noyeah.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
No one wants to be edged for the rest of their life
.
That's what it was oh gosh, no,yeah.
And then I felt this weird.
I also felt like this weirdtension, like clutching my fist
and clutching my jaw.
And I was like is that becausethe orgasms can't come out?
Speaker 2 (09:35):
That's just like a tense bomb yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
It's like when you're listening to a really good song
and it's like it's about to todrop, it's about to drop and
then just goes back up again.
You're like what damn it?
Come on, give me a break here,I want to bust a move, yeah.
So.
Yeah, I wasn't a big fan ofthat one, um, but uh.
So part of my journey is I havea family member who has
psychotic depression and Ididn't know that was a thing and
really none of us in the familydid.
And this person was havinghallucinations and paranoid
(10:11):
delusions, and I mean socompelling and realistic to the
point that they were calling thepolice about things that they
had hallucinated.
Oh man, that's hard, yeah, itwas really like a scary tough
thing, and so, thankfully, theyended up getting, you know, I
(10:31):
think, a year later, a fullworkup from a professional, you
know psych analysis, like awhole day of testing.
They found was it's notschizophrenia, it's not dementia
?
Um, what it is is it'spsychotic depression, and it's
from being depressed for so longand untreated that your brain
(10:54):
starts to do some crazy stuffjust to survive, just to like
cope.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Yeah, I mean it.
It's.
It's crazy.
It's good that we havemedication now and it's crazy
how much there still is even in2024, a stigma with mental
health and and I want to say afew things about mental health
care- health care in thiscountry.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
This is the time.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
They just make it so hard.
It is your brain, it's part ofit's physiological it's.
You know it's an ailment likeany other ailment, you know, and
it's OK to need help to makeyour brain function properly
Like you're.
Sometimes people's brainchemistry is off and it doesn't
mean that their whole self isoff.
(11:43):
They're a great person, theydeserve to be here, they deserve
to be happy, like I think thatthat is so important and people
get scared to seek help and theyget scared to go on medication
because of stigmas or justbecause it's so fucking hard.
They make it so hard, you know,like I remember for my partner
last year when things werereally bad, I was on the phone
(12:05):
for like four to six hours a dayfor a few days just trying to
find the right psychiatrist,just trying to find a general
practitioner that would takethis person in and just at least
see them and hear them, and itwas just jumping through flaming
hoops, no-transcript.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
No, A partner who will be that helpful, but B,
maybe not a partner at all.
Right, and we're going to talkabout in a little bit how
exactly what you're talkingabout like having the
persistence to go through andmake all those calls and do all
those things are really hardthings to do for a depressed
brain.
It's so hard, it's extrafucking hard.
(13:14):
And I know I hear peopletalking about you know a person
that they know that hasdepression and they'll be like
why don't they just do this?
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Yeah, because you're sad person that they know that
has depression, and they'll belike why don't they just do this
?
Yeah, because you're sad andjust imagine like being really
sad and being in bed and be like, yeah, I'm sad, I barely want
to like live.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
But yeah, let me like put some effort in like call
the doctor right now, like fuckthat Right, exactly.
And it's actually the part oftheir brain that anticipates
rewards from their actions andthe part of their brain that is
executive function is reallydialed down when you're
(13:52):
depressed and so you kind ofcan't do these things that are
basic, like make the phone calls, find the therapist.
That is so hard for a depressedbrain to do, especially when
there's a shortage of therapists.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
It's really hard on the first time so you got to
date therapists to find theright one and that's so much
effort.
So you know when someone'salready feeling kind of stuck
(14:35):
and like hopeless, like it'shard to take that step, you know
, and I just feel like it shouldbe easier for them.
Yeah, I agree.
I don't know what the solutionis, but I agree with the problem
.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
And I'm not here to like find years and we were
great and then I moved and itwas too far away.
Yada, yada, yada.
And ever since then I've nothad really anybody for longer
than six months and it's beenhard because people will be in
or out of a certain practice oryou know, or an app or whatever.
So it's hard to get thatlong-term treatment relationship
(15:28):
right now.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
That's interesting, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Yeah, so basically for me, because of my family
member who had thetreatment-resistant depression,
I realized I shouldn't besettling for my undertreated
depression, and so I startedexploring more things and I was
looking into TMS, which istranscranial magnetic
(15:53):
stimulation.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Oh, which, yeah, sounds really important.
I know we had a couple friendsdo that.
We have, yeah, we've had, andit's worked.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Yeah, and when I first heard about this I thought
it was like witchcraft, yeah,like hocus pocus like tms.
I'm like you're like but itturns out it's fda approved as a
treatment for depression um solike it actually works.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
It's's an FDA approved tin hat.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Exactly here, doctor.
I'm here to hear your beepstoday.
Make me feel better, yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
So the TMS I started looking into, like how does that
work?
What the fuck's going on?
Why can't we just put magnetson someone's head?
I got a fridge, I got magnets.
Right, I'm like what's going onhere?
And so I found out the part ofthe brain that they target is
your left dorsolateralprefrontal cortex Say that five
(16:50):
times.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Yeah right, oh my God , I'm very impressed.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
That's probably the only time I'll be able to say it
Very good Is very much involvedin mood.
It's very much involved inunderstanding reward systems and
(17:17):
it's very much involved in yourexecutive function.
Or LDLPFC left dorsolateralprefrontal cortex is like
heavily involved with depressionand that's why they focus the
TMS.
There is really interesting.
So I started digging into whatis going on with that part of
(17:38):
the brain.
Why does it matter so much fordepression?
And it's really interesting.
So a lot of the times, peoplewith depression, they seem stuck
right.
So if they could just take acertain action, or if you could
(17:59):
just exercise, or if you couldjust do this or that, it would
probably help things.
Right.
But the part of tell themselvesthis is an important thing to
do, I'm gonna do it, is likedialed back.
Yeah, literally.
So it's uh, it's extra fuckinghard for them to take action.
(18:21):
Yeah, and it's people who aren'tdepressed have to remember that
.
So when you say I've talked tomy friend who's depressed, like
it's been like six months, andevery time we talk she says I
should get a therapist, and thenshe doesn't have one by the
time we're together the nexttime and it's like, well, that's
because the part of her brainthat would take that on is just
(18:42):
not working.
Um, so I thought that wasreally interesting.
To just that is interestingright, it's like neurocircuitry.
Yeah, yeah, um and especiallyyeah, yeah, and especially
coming off of COVID, in regardsto the left dorsolateral
prefrontal cortex.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
I wish I could help you there.
Left dorsolateral prefrontalcortex.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Yeah, so there's this dynamic in depression that's
common, which is called learnedhelplessness, and oh yeah, it's
right, just the name sounds sad.
It is sad and it originatesfrom animal studies in the 70s.
(19:29):
What they discovered was thatwhen someone is exposed to
something really negative thatthey have no control over, so
they'll try things to make it goaway and they can't.
What happens is they stoptrying and they have cognitive
(19:49):
deficits.
So after, after they're exposedto like I think it's like a low
, low scale electric shock thatthey can't make it stop.
Then they give them puzzles tosolve and their brains are not
working as well.
Wow, yeah, so it's.
It's literally fucking withyour own ability to get through
(20:11):
the situation that you're in.
Wow, yeah, and so the more thatyour depression is related to
things that were beyond yourcontrol the more that you
experience that learnedhelplessness.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
How do you have you read anything about what kind of
therapy they do to helpmitigate that?
Or just kind of like, crawl outof that rut, like because
there's obviously differentkinds of people get depressed
for different ways and I feellike there's a lot of people
that get it from things theycan't control.
Yeah, you know, and so I'm kindof just wondering is there
something I can learn?
(20:55):
I guess one of the things I'mwondering is, as a partner of
someone who has MDD, what can Ido to help them and be really
proactive, proactive?
and supportive, but you know,like I could always learn more,
just so I can understand moreand have more compassion, you
(21:17):
know?
And yeah, in these certainsituations I just find it really
interesting.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
You're finding out really interesting things about
the brain and yeah, differentkinds of depression there is
yeah, I know, because I know forme with my depression, when
it's not when I'm not treated um, my brain doesn't work.
I can tell my brain isn'tworking like I'm a brain fog.
Yeah, I know.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
You, just like you know that you know something but
you can't access it, or youknow you and then you're like I
don't know anything, right, I'mstupid and you know, even though
, like you, probably have adouble master's degree and a PhD
.
I'm giving like an example, butlike you know it's, you just
(22:00):
end up telling yourself thesestories in your head that aren't
true and it just kind ofcompounds it.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
It does, yeah, which that brings up this really
interesting thing that I learnedabout from a podcast.
They were talking aboutdepression.
I'd never heard anybody talkabout this before and it was
really transformative for me tohear about it and they talked
about confabulation as a featureof depression, and so I think
(22:27):
of hocus pocus oh, let'sconfabulate, but confabulation
here I have a definition.
Okay, it's a neuropsychiatricdisorder wherein a patient
(22:48):
generates a false memory withoutthe intention of deceit, ah,
mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
So basically— Don't you get fake memories, you're
confabulating.
That's what I'm going to saynext time it happens.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Exactly, yep, yeah.
So basically what will happenis we have our memory and then
we have the blank spaces in ourmemory.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Right.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
We have our memory and then we have the blank
spaces in our memory, right, andso people with depression it's
a common feature that they willfill in happen with a partner
that I've been with Like, yeah,yeah, and it's not that they're
being deceitful or trying tofuck with you, it's that they
really believe, yeah, these kindof like false memories that,
wow, that their brain's creating, and they're usually narratives
that are very sad.
When you're depressed, they'revery negative.
Um, even something like ifyou're depressed and you're
looking back on your wedding day, and maybe on your wedding day
you're like this day is fuckinggreat, I had such a good time.
And then, 10 day, you're likethis day is fucking great, I had
such a good time.
And then, 10 years later,you're super depressed and
you're thinking about it and allyou remember is what went wrong
(24:19):
and you might be like, yeah, no, I had a terrible day, it was
awful, and it's not you justbeing a dick, it's that your
brain is saying that's the truth.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Yeah, I mean, I feel like this happens with a lot of
people.
I almost now that I'm hearingwhat this is like.
Sometimes I can tell myselfstories in my head and only look
at the negative things.
When I I'm really working onlike redirecting those thoughts,
you know like over the yearsI've gotten a lot better at it,
but you just you tell yourself,like this story that's negative,
(24:52):
about something that's reallyfun and positive and happy, and
like one thing went wrong maybe,and it's not even that big of a
deal, and you're like the wholething sucked yeah.
And that's what happens.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Yeah, and that's what happens to people who are
depressed, like extra, so muchmore.
And so I think I know fromexperience of times when I was
not depressed but I had friendsor partners that were, and maybe
we went out and had a reallyfucking fun day and they were
finally acting happy and I waslike yay, like oh, this is so
(25:25):
cool.
And then we would talk about itlater and they'd be like I
didn't have that much fun, itwasn't great, you know.
And I'd be like you know, I'mthinking you're being an asshole
.
That's not true, you werefinally happy right.
But their brain is telling themthat the truth is we did not
have fun, even though that mightnot be what actually happened,
(25:48):
and so obviously the point ofthis is not like hey, go
gaslight your depressed friendsA fucking terrible outcome.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
That's not the lesson to take away, folks.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
No please don't take that lesson.
But I think the idea is, whenpeople either haven't had
depression or don't know muchabout it and they hear depressed
people talking, it's temptingto be like, well, they should
just see things from a differentperspective, just look at
things from a positive light.
(26:19):
And it's actually they can't.
Their brain is doing somethingelse.
And, um, for me, learning aboutthat was kind of scary because
it's like, holy shit, like Imight have made up memories of
bad things.
But also it was a fucking hugerelief for me because I was
(26:43):
having depressive thoughts about, like I don't have any future,
this, it's inevitable thatyou're gonna have a terrible
life.
Things like that felt veryfucking true to me.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
They felt like the absolute truth, and when I
learned that I was like, oh,maybe I can question that and
not live under that belief oh mygosh, that is like a huge veil
lifted you know, just knowingthe why, like I feel like the
(27:16):
unknown is so scary and like,once you feel like you know why
something is happening, you canbe like, oh, now I can examine
this and see a way out.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Exactly and I can question it.
I can, I can not, you know,because you know in the
depressed mind the worstthoughts feel like the truest
ones and you know if you're areasonably smart person you're
not going to just not trust yourown thoughts helpful to be like
(27:50):
wait, actually, you truly havelike a lens that's so distorting
of reality and all those superhopeless, sad thoughts that
you're having that feel so realmight not be real, yeah and um
yeah.
For me that was like a big ahamoment and it also I mean in
(28:14):
terms of the family member thathas psychotic depression.
I also recognized that patternwith that person because they
would have social interactionsand then have like really
elaborate conspiracy theories,but all of those conspiracy
theories always were likeresulting in reality being that
(28:36):
everyone was against her oreveryone didn't like her or
everyone was trying to harm her.
So these really just negativeoutcomes is it was what her
interpretation was of reality,and I remember sitting with her
and trying to talk with her andtrying to use logic and be like
but do you really think thatsomeone who you know just like
(28:58):
sent a Christmas card two dayslate, wants you to get murdered?
Oh, man.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
Not quite that bad, but I'd murder him.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
How dare you?
Right, I mean not quite thatbad, but kind of.
And and she was reallyconvinced that these
explanations that she hadcreated were the truth.
And I feel like I finallyunderstand her and what she was
going through and, you know,knowing that that's a feature of
depression, just kind of blewmy mind, and hopefully that
(29:32):
helps with the lonelinessfeeling too, when you feel so
isolated and alone and you knowlike you're not necessarily
alone.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
But you just feel lonely.
Alone is different than lonely,and I feel like when you
understand your own brain more,maybe you just won't feel as
lonely, because you're like ohokay, well, this is happening
because I've been oppressed forquite some time and maybe I
(30:01):
shouldn't believe the stories inmy head.
Yeah, and maybe I need torewrite that narrative and start
listing off things that areactually good and going well and
start adding good things to mylife slowly.
Yeah, to try to like come outof that.
You know, and it's I mean, it'seasier said than done, but the
smallest, smallest things.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
Yeah, any little good thing that you can add is good,
and I do.
I relate to for me now that Iknow that that is part of how my
brain is going to kind of fuckwith me when I'm depressed.
That is part of how my brain isgoing to kind of fuck with me
when I'm depressed.
When I do, I do sometimes feellonely or alone, which is now.
I am like hold on, let'schallenge that.
(30:43):
Yeah, you actually have like ahuge, vibrant community.
You have a lot of close friends.
You are so not alone and Ithink just knowing that my mind
can trick me yeah, knowing thatmy mind can trick me into
believing that's the truth,helps me have the discipline to
(31:04):
question it.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
Good, yeah, I want to hug you right now, oh here.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Long distance hugs, oh yeah.
So let me tell you a story.
I was really excited to buy anew clit sucking toy.
So I went to the world'slargest online sex toy retailer
and I found hundreds of optionswith no indication which ones
(31:30):
are quality and which ones areright for me.
So I had to make my best guess.
I ordered the toy, got it inthe mail, super excited to try
it, and bummer, it's way toostrong, even on the lowest
setting, Turns out I can't evenuse it and I wasted 80 bucks.
So I throw it in my nightstandand a couple months later I look
(31:53):
to discover that it hasactually melted into another sex
toy in my nightstand.
I was so mad I decided to startmy own sex toy company, Juicy.
At Juicy we sell a highlycurated selection of body safe
sex toys and we test them sothat we can give you all the
(32:15):
deets about whether or not it'sright for you, such as how
strong or gentle it is, how loudis it and how easy is it to
operate.
So support this podcast and buyyour next sex toy at
getjuicycom.
That's G-E-T-J-O-O-S-Icom,Getjuicycom, G-E-T-J-O-O-S-Icom,
(32:38):
hex.
(32:59):
So basically, major depressivedisorder which I have, which I
think you know somebody who hasthat and whatnot is.
It's a persistently depressedmood, long-term loss of pleasure
and interest in life, oftenincluding disturbed sleep,
feelings of guilt or inadequacyand suicidal thoughts, and that
affects 8 to 10 percent ofAmericans every year.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
Which is pretty alarming.
It's a lot of people.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
That's a lot of people.
That's a lot of people that aresuffering, and so, you know,
check on your friends, right?
Yeah, yeah, even the strongones, mm-hmm yeah especially the
strong ones.
Right, yeah, for sure.
So I came across a study in2022 and this was of people with
major depressive disorder whowere not taking medication, and
(33:49):
eighty two point seven, fivepercent of the women were
experiencing sexual dysfunction.
82.75% of the women wereexperiencing sexual dysfunction.
Wow, just from the depression.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
I mean it kind of makes sense Like you don't have
desire for much else.
Why?
Why sex?
Sex is something that you getexcited about.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
I mean literally you know.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
So if you're just kind of like blah, yeah.
Your capacity to get excited isfucked up, and it affects your
energy too.
Right like you need energy forsex.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
Yeah, you do, yeah so , and then it was 63.26 percent
of men experiencing sexualdysfunction.
That's just due to thedepressive disorder, and then we
all know antidepressants add tothat.
Um, but I think it's importantto understand types of sexual
dysfunction.
So that includes arousal.
(34:41):
So that's like the blood flowto your sexual organs Like are
they getting engorged?
Are they excited?
Desire, right, do I want tofuck?
Lubrication for women, sowhether or not, you know, juices
start flowing.
And then your orgasm.
So that's like like when I wason Prozac and I couldn't have an
(35:03):
orgasm.
That was crazy.
And then your sexualsatisfaction overall.
And then, of course, theequivalent for men on the
lubrication thing is is erection?
Equivalent for men on thelubrication thing is erection.
But all of those things, all ofthose things, it's like a chain
.
So if one part of it breaks, thewhole thing breaks yeah yeah,
right, so it's pretty tricky soI think so the ways that
(35:32):
depression is fucking with sexis a lot of how we see ourselves
and how we see our partners andwith ourselves.
Depression causes lowself-esteem, often weight gain,
either from inactivity or frommedications, and then low energy
(35:53):
.
So you're just kind of like youknow, like sex would be great
but I don't have the energy todo it.
And then what I think wasinteresting in the research I
was doing was the how we see ourpartners part, which for me, I
learned recently thatirritability is a big feature of
my depression.
I did not know that until Istarted taking a new
(36:15):
antidepressant and all of asudden I was like not not not
irritable.
And I had really just thoughtwell, that's just how I am, I
guess, just deal with it.
And when that went away, it waslike noticeable to me and to my
partner and we were like, oh,I'm not pissed all the time, so
(36:36):
that's great.
But yeah, if you're irritablefrom depression, you're going to
have more conflict with yourpartner and conflict means less
sex?
Yeah, right, yeah, so that wasan interesting one for me to
learn.
And then also you have thatnegative lens, so everything is
kind of dark and cloudy and badand you put that on your partner
(36:58):
, and so you look at them with anegative lens and you think
they are interesting, and isthis the unmedicated people
still, or this is also medicated?
Speaker 2 (37:07):
this?
Speaker 1 (37:07):
is just like depression itself.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
So you can think of it a desire thing like I don't
(37:38):
know if I'm negatively looked ator if I negative or I know that
this person can sometimesnegatively look at themselves.
But like you know, like I wouldget told that, you know, like
they do want to do things, theyjust and their brain fog is gone
because they're on Wilbutrinnow and things are going better,
(38:00):
you know, with energy and focusand some of the things that
brought them joy before and thatgives me joy and I'm really
happy to see that.
But the sex stuff hasn't comeyet.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
It's been very few and far between you know.
So it's like how do you?
I don't?
there's been a couple timeswhere you know we would try to
do something and he would bekind of in the mood and then it
would just turn off like in themiddle or just before, and then
it just wouldn't happen and thenhe'd get really upset yeah and
(38:36):
just like, kind of like, justshut down, yeah, and I I would
be like it's okay, you know,like trying to reassure this
person, like it's okay, like wecan take it slow, like just do
things that bring you joy and wecan cuddle and do other things.
You know, like we don'tnecessarily need to go straight
(38:58):
to penetration, but like I don'twant to push it on this person
and because I don't like them tomake them feel bad.
And I've been told you can fuckanyone, you know, but I don't
want to, Not when my.
You know, like not when thingsare.
(39:18):
We're still figuring stuff outin our relationship.
To me, like if we had an openrelationship and things like
that, to me it's like anadditive to a relationship.
You know, it's something thatyou add that makes you feel good
, feel good.
(39:38):
So I'm just kind of wonderingwhat I can do, like to I don't
know meet, meet this personhalfway or and not make them
feel bad.
Or you know how long certainmedications usually take to get
your sex drive back or any of it.
Or just like does life lookdifferent now and we just figure
out other stuff, like do youhave any?
As someone with depression, doyou have any insight on that um?
Speaker 1 (39:59):
I do.
I know for me, if I have aneffective antidepressant on
board, I would say like 8 to 12weeks, like I will start to
notice my interest in sexpicking up again.
Um, I think the key thing is tokeep the physical intimacy so
(40:23):
like maybe there's not as muchsex for a little while, but
there's a lot of cuddling andtouching and and we do that yeah
, so that you don't becomestrangers to each other yeah,
that I'm afraid of like lately,like we do have a lot of
physical touch and everything isgood there.
Speaker 2 (40:43):
Um, you know, I guess I just been having like weird
nightmares of like disconnectionand stuff, because maybe I'm
just worried about it.
Yeah, I'm not in a relationshipjust for sex.
Right, I'm not in arelationship just for sex.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
Don't judge me yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:08):
I just need it still, you know, and I would like some
light at the end of theproverbial tunnel, you know,
when the train comes through,yeah, but I don't want to be
like pushing it, you know, Idon't want it to feel forced, I
(41:29):
want it to be fun and naturaland stuff.
But you know like, and Iactually feel happy with what's
going on right now, you know,and I have toys, you know, but I
think we're just we got tofigure it out.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
Yeah, and I think for me and I don't I don't know if
your partner is similar or not,but I know for me, before this
depression kind of had its gripson me, um, I was very sexually
responsive, so like someinitiation, whatever, I was like
good to go all the time, reallyfast, um, and now it just like
(42:09):
it takes a lot longer, like amuch longer period of foreplay,
I guess, of like touch andintimacy and closeness and like
eventually I will want to, butit's just a lot more of that
that I need to get to that point, and so maybe that is something
(42:29):
that could be helpful.
Yeah, yeah that is somethingthat could be helpful.
Yeah, yeah, and you know whereI as the depressed person and I
relate to what you were talkingabout with with your partner,
you get frustrated because yourbody's not responding and you
want to want to and like it'skind of like you're living like
behind a curtain, like you havethis partner out there and you
want to connect to them and youwant to want to do the thing,
(42:53):
but you you just kind of can'tand um it's.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
It's really frustrating and if you're used
to being really responsivesexually, it's extra fucking
frustrating yeah, and it's likeI don't want, I don't want
anyone to feel like they'redisappointing me, right when
they already feel like adisappointment.
You know, like I really don'tfeel disappointed.
(43:19):
Am I a little sexuallyfrustrated?
Sure, I'm human right.
But I'm not frustrated with theperson, I'm not disappointed
with the person.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
Let's just find other ways to connect, you know, and
it's just gonna take a while,yeah I think having some, some
creativity of different ways tolike start initiating touch that
is longer lasting and stuff asas foreplay, and then hopefully
having your partner be patientwith themselves that it's okay,
it's gonna take you that'sactually a really good point.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
Having them be patient with themselves, that's
a good point.
Yeah, because it's like it'sokay, like you can slow, you can
be slow, it's fine.
Like don't think that you haveto like pitch a tent right away.
Speaker 1 (44:04):
Yeah, With the slightest breeze.
For me that happens, like Ifeel like if I'm not responding,
um, as quickly as I used to, Iget frustrated with myself and
I'm like I didn't want to dothis and I'll pull the plug.
Um, but I've learned that whenI hang in there and like, let's
(44:29):
you know, maybe dial it back afew levels for a little while
and stuff that it helps, and sohaving your partner understand,
like your brain's just in adifferent space.
Right now your circuitry isworking differently and you need
a longer ramp up, and so justbe patient with yourself.
Speaker 2 (44:47):
You're not going to put it with a brace and that's
OK.
Speaker 1 (44:51):
And I think that's a huge component because I know
for me it's often, you know,something sexual will start and
it's like I feel like I'mpulling the ripcord out of
frustration with myself.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
Yeah, yeah, I can see that.
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
Yeah, yeah, all right , so we have talked your ears
off, which?
Speaker 2 (45:13):
is great, I learned some new words today.
Oh good what.
The left dorsolateralprefrontal cortex and the
confabulation Confabulationsisters.
Speaker 1 (45:27):
Let's confabulate.
Yeah, so this has been anawesome conversation.
Thank you for coming andtalking about your experience as
a partner of somebody withdepression.
I think that's a hugelyimportant perspective that I
don't think ever gets talkedabout, honestly.
Speaker 2 (45:45):
Yeah, we need a hug just as much as the person
that's depressed, to be honest,for sure, because you're holding
it up for two.
Speaker 1 (45:51):
Yeah, yeah, you're holding it up for two right now
and that's really hard.
So I really appreciate youcoming in and sharing that
experience.
I think a lot of people willrelate and be relieved to know
that they're not alone, and Ihope that my experience with
depression has helped some ofyou feel less alone, yeah.
That just like to help youunderstand yourself and know
(46:11):
that you're not alone.
All right, so that is theconclusion of the trisexual
depression and sex episode.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (46:22):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (46:25):
Thank you for listening to the Juicy Sex
Podcast.
If you enjoyed this podcast,kindly click like and subscribe.
It really helps us get the wordout and we'll see you next time
.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.