Pride, Throuples, & Swinging Couples: Adventures in Ethical Non-Monogamy

Have you ever questioned whether you’re "gay enough" to claim your identity? Join my guest Carlie and I on the Joosi Sex Podcast as we challenge stereotypes about swingers and dive into the intricacies of bisexuality and open relationships. I share my personal struggle with sexual identity and the profound impact of living authentically. Discover the importance of being open about one's orientation and how it can positively transform your life.

Celebrate Pride with us as we recount the emotional journey of coming out. By sharing my own experiences of publicly acknowledging my bisexuality and the mixed reactions that followed, we highlight the complex dynamics of family and societal acceptance. Hear about the heartfelt reconciliation with a mother and the overwhelming support from those around me, illustrating the highs and lows of this transformative process.

Shifting gears, we explore ethical non-monogamy and the importance of honesty and openness in relationships. Through personal stories, we discuss the fluid nature of relationships, different forms of ethical non-monogamy, and the significance of creating safe spaces for self-expression. Unpack the misconceptions surrounding open and closed relationships and learn how personal fulfillment can come from diverse sources. This episode is a celebration of love in all its forms and the journey toward living a life true to oneself.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
I'm in an open relationship.
My partner and I have definedour own thing that works for us,
wherein, like we kind of like Idon't know there's a lot of
stereotypes about swingers and Idon't know how much those?
Of you who are listening areaware of those stereotypes.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
Well, the main one being it's all about sex.

Speaker 1 (00:23):
The main one being it's all about sex.

Speaker 2 (00:25):
That's the only.
Thing.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
And and that's the only thing, and that that's the
only thing and that it's verymuch about is transactional, and
that it's uh, it's always aswap which means like that you
trade partners and that that'slike a hard swap, um, but really
for me I feel like we fuckother people but we don't date
other people, and so that's whyI sort of identify a little bit

(00:54):
more swinger and not as muchpolyam, but we definitely fuck
our friends.
Welcome to the Juicy SexPodcast, where my friends and I
have raw, unfiltered andhilarious conversations about
all things sex.
I'm Alisa Eddy, the founder andCEO of Juicy Sexual Wellness,
where we try the toys and helpyou find the right one for you.

(01:17):
Now on to the podcast.
Hi, everybody, it's Pride Month, so last year we had a bisexual
trisexual episode of thepodcast and we talked a lot
about bisexual pride.
I shouldn't identify asbisexual because I am not

(01:48):
quote-unquote gay enough to bebisexual fascinating to me,
which is an interesting thing,right?
yeah, because nobody told me.
Nobody was like hey, you're notgay enough to call yourself
bisexual.
But this was something I toldmyself internally yeah, yeah, go
, yeah, go on.

Speaker 2 (02:03):
That's very fascinating.
I'm very curious about that.

Speaker 1 (02:05):
Yeah.
So this was all about notwanting to claim a marginalized
identity where I felt like I hadhad the privilege of being able
to fly under the radar with it,and so my idea, ethically, was
that it wasn't right to claimthat identity.

(02:27):
However, upon furtherexamination, when I knew I was
going to have an episode aboutbisexuality, and I was like I I
know that I'm technically notjust technically, but definitely
bisexual, and I was like whatdo I do?
Do I call myself bisexual?
Am I bisexual enough to callmyself bisexual?

(02:48):
Right?
That was a big battle for meand I came to the conclusion
that yes, I am, and a big partof that journey for me was
realizing that I help no one byhiding it, that I help no one by
hiding it.

Speaker 2 (03:05):
That is a really good point.

Speaker 1 (03:07):
No one, Nobody's helped by being like well, I'm
kind of bisexual, but I'm goingto pretend that I'm straight.

Speaker 2 (03:16):
Nobody's helped by that and I feel like it's just
super, first of all, super,fascinating.
I don't think it's necessarilylike you have this there.
Might you might feel like youhave a duty, but it's like you
have such an interestingpersonality, like mine, where
it's like I would be executedfor the way that I live as a
bisexual person, right.

Speaker 1 (03:52):
So in truth, I am, of people who exist in that space
is, or I for me, I came to theconclusion that that was not in
the greater interest of whatmattered to me.
Let me tell you a story.

(04:14):
I was really excited to buy anew clit-sucking toy.
So I went to the world'slargest online sex toy retailer
and I found hundreds of optionswith no indication which ones
are quality and which ones areright for me.
So I had to make my best guess.
I ordered the toy, got it in themail, super excited to try it,

(04:36):
and bummer, it's way too strong,even on the lowest setting.
Turns out I can't even use it,and I wasted 80 bucks.
So I throw it in my nightstand.
And a couple months later Ilook to discover that it has
actually melted into another sextoy in my nightstand.
I was so mad I decided to startmy own sex toy company, juicy.

(05:01):
At Juicy, we sell a highlycurated selection of body-safe
sex toys and we test them sothat we can give you all the
deets about whether or not it'sright for you, such as how
strong or gentle it is, how loudis it and how easy is it to
operate.
So support this podcast and buyyour next sex toy at

(05:24):
GetJuicycom.
That's G-E-T-J-O-O-S-Icom,getjuicycom.

Speaker 2 (05:32):
G-e-t-j-o-o-s-icom level, though, because it's this
responsibility, you feel likeyou had to offer this
information, to make adifference, which, by the way,
commendable beyond words.
But it's like.
This is your experience andit's okay that it's hidden.

(05:56):
It doesn't have to be a negativein my head that you don't share
it right, yeah right, yeah, umand yeah and like they say a lot
of people, like they saywhoever it's, just when it's
your time and you feel like it'sright, and maybe that was the
reasoning to push you to that'sfantastic.
Whatever gets you to beyourself and, as I have found

(06:17):
for me, the more I've beenmyself, the more I've offered
who I am, the more I have sharedit.
Yeah, the happier I have been,the more me I have been and the
more inspired to be my best self.
I have been able to be yeah,yeah, every single day.

Speaker 1 (06:30):
Totally.

Speaker 2 (06:31):
Otherwise it's just and again, without putting the
negatives.
It's not like negative to hideit, it's not even hiding.
It's just maybe not ready andthat's OK too.

Speaker 1 (06:41):
Totally okay to not be ready.
I think for me I was ready.
I just had sort of anintellectual barrier about it.
That was happening and I also,in full honesty, when I was
contemplating, like wow, I'vebeen someone who people know is
vaguely bisexual, like peoplewho know me know that.
Right, but then to talk aboutit on a podcast is like a

(07:04):
permanent matter of record Right.

Speaker 2 (07:07):
It is.

Speaker 1 (07:08):
And that is a totally different level of coming out.

Speaker 2 (07:14):
Versus what.

Speaker 1 (07:15):
Versus just people, kind of knowing it about you.
You know everybody.

Speaker 2 (07:19):
I feel like a lot of people are stuck in that, so
it's pretty incredible andadmirable, if I might say, that
you would do it on such a publicspace A similar experience for
me as well, so I can understand.

Speaker 1 (07:30):
Yeah, and I think one of the things that I, in full
transparency, contemplated was aloss of privilege, of the
status of being straight, and Ireally actually did think about
that.

Speaker 2 (07:49):
It's a privilege to be straight.

Speaker 1 (07:51):
It's a privilege to be straight.

Speaker 2 (07:53):
Really.

Speaker 1 (07:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (07:54):
Honestly, I really would love you to explain that
to me.

Speaker 1 (07:56):
Yeah, yeah.
So I guess the idea of I youknow, I meet the normal
standards, I am the normal, whatI'm supposed to be All of that
privilege that I was able tojust kind of live my life under
However, it's not how I actuallylived my life sexually, but it

(08:16):
was how I lived my life sociallyRight.

Speaker 2 (08:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (08:20):
That I realized oh, I'm taking a bit of a risk here
Like there are people that aregoing to feel differently about
me because of this.
There are friends I've hadsince high school that are going
to feel differently about mebecause of this.

Speaker 2 (08:33):
If my family hears this, they're definitely going
to feel differently about me,but I have a feeling you knew
all those were going to occurand yet you still took the time
to do it.
And I feel like it's prettyincredible when people take that
moment.
They think about all those samethings, right, and to consider
yourself privileged to havehidden it is, I think.
I don't know if it's necessary,because we all have that, we

(08:57):
all experience.
Everybody gets the ability tohide who they are because they
don't say it.
So to say it's privilege, Ithink is a far more common
experience than I think youthink.
Yeah, it's, even I well, it's aguilt, in different ways for
sure, for different people.
But it's like seeing it thatway is a fascinating experience

(09:18):
that I guess I don't, I guess Ican relate to actually, but all
people right, you don't, youdon't know till you know, until
you release that information,yeah, and to see it as privilege
to, to be able to hide, it isinteresting to me it is.

Speaker 1 (09:32):
It is interesting.
Yeah, and but that wasdefinitely part of it.
For me was being like oh, I'mgiving up that privilege how do
you, how do you feel about itnow?
Completely fine I know righttotally good, yeah, fascinating,
like I immediately was like ohwell, that's like it now.

Speaker 2 (09:44):
Completely fine, I know right, totally good yeah.

Speaker 1 (09:45):
Fascinating, like I immediately was like oh well,
that's like.

Speaker 2 (09:49):
Wasn't even like.
Why did I do that?

Speaker 1 (09:51):
It's like a relief.
It's like why didn't I say thatforever ago, you know?
And all my reasons suddenlyfelt kind of silly.

Speaker 2 (09:58):
While valid.

Speaker 1 (09:59):
Yeah, they were valid .

Speaker 2 (10:01):
Commonly quite silly at the time.

Speaker 1 (10:02):
But yeah, after the fact I was like, nah, that was a
little bit silly.

Speaker 2 (10:11):
I think that just being open about that was the
way to be Fear of the unknownand the reactions and the world
that you grew up in and thethings that you hid for so long
from the situations,environments and people that you
hid it from.
Yeah, Not knowing how they'regoing to react is understandable
.

Speaker 1 (10:23):
Totally Well, and I grew up in a super religious,
super duper religiousenvironment Baptist yeah so
definitely had an idea of peoplethinking about you differently
if you're not straight.
Even though that no longermatched my values at all, it was

(10:46):
inside of me as this, likerelic.

Speaker 2 (10:48):
Oh my gosh.
You know, but how cool is itthat you had that realization
and the ability and the braveryto actually just make the change
anyway, yeah, and to just belike fuck it, I'm not going with
the relic, fudge it, fuck it,yeah, sorry, fuck it yeah, yeah
for sure.

Speaker 1 (11:05):
So I'm curious how, in the spirit of Pride Month,
how do you identify and what wasyour journey like?

Speaker 2 (11:10):
So I am bisexual.
I it's one of those thingswhere I always it's not
necessarily new, but it's likehad this pride.
I don't know that I identifythe same way as you do with like
this privilege so much as justlike, maybe this inherent.
I need to have this moment, andmaybe a lot of people feel that
way too.
I need to have this momentwhere I can come out and, to be
honest, I don't just like I'mnot going to delete that moment.

(11:33):
That was so important for meand for people that I even know.
But when was it?
It was June, june 21st, 2020.
On Facebook, and after just notwanting it to be whole
conversations with individualpeople in my life and honestly,
I kind of think everybody knewanyway, it's just I was lying in
bed with my husband and I hadmy phone out and I said I think

(11:56):
I'm gonna do it.
He's like okay, like he, heknew he knows me Right, and so I
I I typed out um, I am bisexual.
Hashtag, this is me coming out.
Uh, hashtag always have beenHashtag happy pride.
And it took me like a minuteand then I, as soon as I pressed

(12:16):
post or send Colton, was likegood job, babe, you did it
Finally, because I mean it hadbeen a conversation and a moment
where I almost did it multipletimes.
Now, what that was met with wasa good combination of a few
things right.
It was, oh my God, an epicamount of love, right?
Just hundreds of likes andloves and people that I was

(12:36):
working with at the time takingthe time, even even at work, to
be like, oh my God, so proud ofyou.
It was.
That was wonderful, and it'snot overshadowed by the things
I'm about to say, but itdefinitely is a competitive
reality because, you know, weall tend to be like negative and
focus on those things.
It's one of those things Iexpected my personality to be
like, prepared for those things,right?

(12:57):
So epic amount of love.
And then you know some bigotryand arrogance.
So people from like high schoolwere like, hey, so you're
married.
Essentially, why bother?
And what are you guys?
Just an open relationship rightnow, and that's an arrogance
and that's fine.
I think that's a lack ofunderstanding and an experience
or whatever.
Arrogance doesn't have to bethis just purposeful lack of

(13:20):
information.
I think arrogance can also comefrom just literally just not
knowing and asking questionswhile to me sounding kind of
stupid, yeah, yeah,understandable.
And so, while I didn't feel theneed to respond, I actually
found those people with a lot oflove to respond on my behalf
for just epic amount of, and Ifollowed it and I was like, wow,
I don't think I have anythingto say because to tears, was

(13:41):
like supported Right.
And then, thirdly, was like youcan't really expect or require
your parents to feel anything.
They're going to have their ownthoughts.
And I was empathetic and readyto feel whatever they were ready
to feel.
But I still was so likesurprised between my mom and my
dad, so I texted them saying hey, I posted a thing, if you have

(14:03):
questions, feel free to reachout.
And my dad, on a conversationhe's the first one to call, was
like does it affect yourmarriage?
Because, again, I'm married tomy husband.
And I was like, no, it actuallyadds to right, it makes me more
me.
And he was like okay, then, Ilove you.
Oh, my God.

(14:26):
Like well, almost had a tearthere.
Um, it made me so comfortablewith who I was.
And then I actually didn't hearfrom my mom all day, and I love
her to death.
We've moved on past this, butI'm sure she can understand this
experience, which was she hadsaid didn't respond all day, and
I followed up.
I was like, is it like hello,kind of thing.
You know, I don't reallyunderstand the pomp circumstance
.
Of course, I already knew thatand I wish you said nothing
because she's embarrassed.
Yeah, that was really hardthat's, that's really hard it

(14:49):
lasted years where we had thisdisdain relationship I had.
It's not a difference inrespect, um, and how she saw the
world, um, while today I willsay, just to kind of like quick
close, that three years latershe had been like you know what
I actually understand.
It was a whole conversation wehad on the phone to tears both
of us.
It was an amazing conversationwhere she had said you know, I

(15:11):
now understand that love andacceptance they have to go
together in order to be realityand if, oh my God, what a moment
.
But in between and before then,it was really tough.
It was pretty tough.
You can see the variance in myexperience just from doing it.
It's still at the end of theday, like I said for you, I'm
I'm sure it felt amazing to dothis atlas off my shoulders yeah

(15:32):
, yeah for sure.

Speaker 1 (15:33):
And and I felt like I was finally like, um, like I
was finally being honest aboutwhat team I'm on, like which
everyone.
The thing is, I've always beensuper like pro gay rights, pro
lgbtq, so there's never aquestion about that in the first
place.
But, like, here's also why I'mon that team.

Speaker 2 (15:55):
Here's one of the reasons you know, appreciate the
honesty of what you just saidis that we just didn't pick a
team anyway.
Yeah, Right.
Why should?

Speaker 1 (16:04):
we, we don't have to no.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (16:07):
Oh God, that was funny yeah.

Speaker 1 (16:10):
Yeah, but I think, just being really clear, like
this isn't just something that Isupport from afar, this is
something that I live and Isupport it both up close in my
own life and from afar.
This is something that I liveand I support it both up close
in my own life and from afar, inall the ways that that I can
yeah, it's.

Speaker 2 (16:24):
It's an incredible experience to finally feel like
yourself and then suddenly feelless to others so even after all
the trauma, whatever, it's niceto finally have people see it
that are the most important toyou and just not question it
yeah, yeah, yeah it's it.

Speaker 1 (16:40):
It takes time to get there too, for a lot it does, it
does and I think it's just forme the timing and everything.
For me it was.
It was a great thing to do.
It turned out.
It felt very good.
Right away.
I felt like why didn't I dothis sooner?

Speaker 2 (16:54):
but also it happened when it was supposed to it did
exactly.

Speaker 1 (16:57):
I'm so proud of you.

Speaker 2 (16:59):
Thank you, that's pretty incredible that you did
it in the channel that you didso good job.

Speaker 1 (17:02):
Thank you.
Yeah, and I, and honestly Ididn't even realize until I was
about to do that episode that Iwasn't out.

Speaker 2 (17:09):
Oh my gosh Interesting.

Speaker 1 (17:13):
I didn't even realize it, because you were so world
and I was like, oh, but there'sa label that does sort of belong
to you that you have eschewed.
And I was like, oh, we havesomething to think about.

Speaker 2 (17:29):
But it's cool that you kind of had that realization
and you were already so farpast it that you're like here's
the thing.

Speaker 1 (17:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:34):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (17:34):
Yeah, it was a good experience for me and you know.

Speaker 2 (17:38):
Different for everybody.
I'm sure there's a combinationof both our worlds.
That occurred for most people.
I've seen videos, the wholething, and it's just do it when
you feel is right, right andit's OK.
If you don't, I don't thinkhiding it is a problem.

Speaker 1 (17:51):
And it's not hiding You're right, it's not.
It's not even about being ready,it's just like why, if you
don't want to do it, if you wantto, and about what feels right
to you.
So I think, like it might feelright to you to not say
something, and it might feelright to you to say something
and like that sense of likeconnecting to your own inner

(18:13):
righteousness, about, like, whatis right for you at that time
yes, matters, and and because welive in a world where, like
there's, there's still differentlike acceptances and and
generations that acceptdifferent ways.

Speaker 2 (18:25):
For example, I never, I didn't tell my grandma, right
, it wasn't something I activelyneeded to share, and that's
just, I think, an intelligentmove, emotionally intelligent
understanding of what should andshould, without changing the
relationship you have.
It didn't add value, right, yes, and I still got to still be
myself.

Speaker 1 (18:43):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely, yep.
I think that there's like whatis the positive impact and doing
all that math for yourself,everybody's everybody's
situation is different.

Speaker 2 (18:53):
I'm not good at math, but I'm good at that math,
Definitely math.
Yeah for sure.

Speaker 1 (18:57):
So I'm curious like how do you choose to celebrate
pride?

Speaker 2 (19:01):
Yeah, so different ways.
You know, over the years I amworking in like corporate
America, many differentconsulting firms and IT
businesses, whatever.
I have taken pretty great pridein establishing a number of the
affinity groups and ERGs oremployee resource groups, like
the Pride plus and plus all likeally group, the other things

(19:21):
aside, like women's groups, thebook club group, the um
philanthropy or fun whatever.
And with it came this privilegeand and ability to find myself,
especially with pride,organizing a collection of
different community or socialevents um, educational or like
advocacy opportunities forpeople whether they're just
allies or not even involved orpeople that are actually in the

(19:43):
community, and then volunteering, fundraising, whatever,
anything that essentially raisedawareness and invited people to
join at the comfort that theyare interested in, regardless of
who they are, and and thensupport the LGBTQ pride, the
whole the June month thing intheir own way, right.
So I, I I pride myself in beinga leader in that, for wherever

(20:04):
I am at, and with it I I wouldalso add that at the end of the
day, like you don't have to doanything right, you can do
whatever makes you feelcomfortable, but being
supportive, I think, is justimportant yeah and so offering
channels was basically.
It is my yearly way of engagingwith the humans around me and,
whether I do it or not, I thinkthat it's important that I share

(20:26):
how I do it have a safe,trusted, comfortable place to be
themselves is the mostbeautiful way that you could

(20:46):
celebrate.

Speaker 1 (20:46):
I think that's awesome.

Speaker 2 (20:48):
Yeah, and I think for years, even before I was able
or out, I just engaged in beingin a space with the people that
probably already knew who I waseven without being out.
It's kind of like you know,know, they knew, yeah, and just
being myself and whatever thatis at that time.
And that's enough, more thanenough.

Speaker 1 (21:08):
Yep, absolutely yeah, and so I think that's where I
think that those are.
All the ways are great.
Celebrate Pride however youwant.
I also would encourage you tonot just celebrate it by buying
rainbow colored merchandise fromFortune 500.
As pretty as it is, as prettyas it is, and we love it.
And we talked earlier aboutthese Pride rainbow colored

(21:30):
Converse that they came out withthis year that are just fucking
gorgeous.

Speaker 2 (21:34):
They get us, though, come on, they get us.

Speaker 1 (21:36):
I was like they're perfect, they're like and they
reflect on the rainbow, like, oh, they're so cute.
But at the same time, I thinkthat it's extra important to
support LGBTQ businesses and tosupport nonprofits that support
LGBTQ people during this time,and that that's even more
important than buying rainbowstuff at Target.

Speaker 2 (21:58):
Yeah, exactly Essentially be yourself, go out
and enjoy the rainbow that isthe world.

Speaker 1 (22:03):
Yes, exactly yes, especially during June.
Yeah, so our main topicactually is not pride, however,
it is ethical non-monogamy, fromeverything from polyamory to
swinging, and we're going totalk more about all of that.
I want to set intentions alittle bit before we dive into

(22:24):
that everything from polyamoryto swinging, and we're going to
talk more about all of that.
I want to set intentions alittle bit before we dive into
that, which is to say, we aregoing to have an exploratory
conversation between two people.
We're going to talk about ourunique experiences and thoughts
and feelings, and we're probablygoing to get some things wrong.

Speaker 2 (22:40):
Or right or right or right.
Irrelevant.
Yeah, I like the conversation.

Speaker 1 (22:44):
Yeah, and that the whole point is to just make it
safe enough to talk about trickystuff, that we don't have to be
so afraid of saying somethingnot perfect, that we can't have
the conversation.
So we're going to have theconversation.

Speaker 2 (22:56):
I'm excited.

Speaker 1 (22:57):
And so if you identify as one of the things
that we talk about today and wegot you wrong, I'm so sorry.
We love you, we'll fix it, orwe'll you know.

Speaker 2 (23:06):
I hope they add to this.

Speaker 1 (23:07):
Yeah, I hope so too.

Speaker 2 (23:08):
They're invited.
Oh my gosh, totally add.
But also, we can't defineeverybody.
We can just say our ownexperiences.
We can only talk about our ownexperiences.
That's all I can offer.

Speaker 1 (23:14):
Yeah, exactly, exactly so.
We're going to make it safe toexplore this rocky terrain
together.

Speaker 2 (23:21):
Yes, Rocky terrain, I would say this wonderful
mountain we chose to climb.

Speaker 1 (23:26):
This beautiful mountain.
Yes, even when difficult it ispeople who either date or fuck
more than one person, I say at atime, but I don't mean
literally, I mean like thatthey're not monogamous, but

(23:51):
they're honest about it in theways that matter to the people
in their lives.
And so it's a prettyloosey-goosey definition, but
that's kind of how I see thebroader thing.

Speaker 2 (24:01):
Well, and I'm curious what you say when they're
honest about it.

Speaker 1 (24:03):
So honest, just being that you're not intentionally
deceitful.
So some people don't there's.
Don't ask, don't tellrelationships there's all that
kind of stuff.

Speaker 2 (24:12):
Yeah, there's the military.

Speaker 1 (24:14):
There's places where you don't need to be telling
people things.
You know what or what not, butwhen it's a partnership, I think
that you need to be honest withyour partners about what you're
doing.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (24:25):
If you're doing things that are not inside of
that relationship.
So that's where the ethicalpart comes in for me.

Speaker 2 (24:30):
Yes, that's definitely, and honesty applies
to the ethical Just like, yes,they go together.

Speaker 1 (24:36):
Yeah, yeah, I can see that, yeah no-transcript either

(25:06):
sexually, emotionally orextended Right.

Speaker 2 (25:09):
For me it's this interest and application in
having a big heart.

Speaker 1 (25:14):
So and.

Speaker 2 (25:15):
I've always explained how I feel and I'm sure there's
more to this that we can getinto, but I have a big heart and
it's it's not necessarily beento my benefit um, and a lot of
love to give right yeah, yeahand like I love people, probably
faster than they arecomfortable saying it to me.
It doesn't work.
I don't need you to say it back, I'm just, that's just who I am
, and I would say that it takesa combination of, like practice,

(25:36):
right, um, doing the things,going through the motions and
when I say pain, it's notnecessarily pain, it's lessons
where you couldn't have known,possibly beforehand, that it
hurt you until you do.
But the interest in talkingabout it after and learning from
it and still going.
So that pain which comes withpersistence, so persisting past

(25:57):
it.
And then this panache, sopersisting past it, and then
this panache, right, still beingyourself, being this interested
, whole human that you arecapable of loving so big and, in
your own way, exploring thepeople, that you're with people,
whether you're in a partnershipor even if you're doing it solo
, yeah, but E&M essentially isjust, oh my gosh, I said it my

(26:18):
way a little stylish in fact,but it's like everybody's so
different still.
It is so true, I was sayingearlier, it's like EDM.

Speaker 1 (26:29):
There are as many categories of EDM as there are
of.
E&M.
Yeah, it's a huge umbrellathing, I think for me.
I think part of what'sinteresting about ethical
non-monogamy is what got youthere, and I think for me I was.
I met my ex-husband when I was20 years old and we were married

(26:54):
.
We were together for like fiveyears before we got married and
we were married for 10 years andthat was a long ass fucking
relationship and um I it wasdefinitely not a sexual
relationship for the end for awhile I can relate yeah and um,

(27:14):
I felt like my sexuality wasbeing held hostage, because the
only person I was allowed tofuck was somebody I didn't want
to.

Speaker 2 (27:25):
So you took one for the team on his behalf,
Basically that was how I felt.
That's tough.

Speaker 1 (27:30):
It was tough, and when I left him I was like never
again.

Speaker 2 (27:36):
Oh, my yeah.

Speaker 1 (27:37):
Absolutely never again.
We're not doing that.

Speaker 2 (27:40):
Pretty damaging for your confidence Every action you
took after yeah, I mean it was.

Speaker 1 (27:45):
it was something where I I had gotten to the
point where I remember saying toa friend when I was still
married, maybe like a yearbefore we broke up I said I
don't care honestly if I everhave sex again.
And that was where, like, mysex drive was at that point,

(28:07):
because the only person it wasan option for me to have sex
with was somebody that I waslike really fucking angry with
and really didn't want to havesex with, and that was being
married.

Speaker 2 (28:21):
What an experience.

Speaker 1 (28:23):
Yeah, it's quite an experience and it made me.
After I left that arrangement Iwas like never again will any
one person own my sexualityother than me?

Speaker 2 (28:34):
I All I can say is validate and understand and
relate to feeling like thisasexual person when you know
you're not.

Speaker 1 (28:40):
You know you're not.

Speaker 2 (28:41):
You're absolutely fucking not.
Yeah, you're not asexual, butyou're almost forced.
And it's not necessarilynarcissistic so much as just
like, is this what I am?
But it's like you knew, no, no.

Speaker 1 (28:56):
It was so weird to me because I'm like this is not
who I am.
I don't understand why do Ifeel this way, but that was how
I felt, and immediately, almostimmediately, upon severing that
commitment.

Speaker 2 (29:12):
And how many years total was that one again?

Speaker 1 (29:14):
It was a total of like 13 or 14 years.
Almost immediately I was like,oh, I have a sex drive again.

Speaker 2 (29:24):
Oh wow, oh wow.

Speaker 1 (29:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:28):
I can so relate to that.

Speaker 1 (29:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (29:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:32):
I guess in, in, and that's kind of like what led you
to where you are now.

Speaker 1 (29:37):
It is.
It led me to say so.
When I started dating again, Iwas listing myself as, like,
ethically non-monogamous on thedating apps, because I just was
not interested in getting intothat kind of a contract with
somebody ever again.

Speaker 2 (29:51):
Contract.

Speaker 1 (29:52):
Yeah, it felt like a contract.

Speaker 2 (29:54):
Oh my gosh, what a good way to say that.

Speaker 1 (29:56):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:59):
Yeah, it kind of did Okay, so I can relate to you
super hard.
So, near the end of myrelationship.
So I was with Colton for 10years and towards the last half
of it we were married for only acouple and engaged for a couple
as well it ended up beingsomewhat sexless and you know,

(30:22):
I'll be honest, one of thethings that I received towards
the end in addition to meworking really hard and feeling
like it was going well was I'mno longer attracted to you.
Well, I'm so attracted to him.
So it's this loss of I thoughtthis is what I offer, this
thought of who I am.
So I can imagine the pain, justsimilarly to the indifference

(30:42):
that he had and the focus that Ihad.
But again, what led so back toyour original question, like
what led to the E&M side?
I will actually go back in timeand say you know what.
It's actually a really goodexperience overall.
I think it was highlyeducational and E&M.

Speaker 1 (31:02):
Honestly and I don't know if you agree it's not
actually much of a term I everused Me either.

Speaker 2 (31:05):
I never, I never, I don't identify as E&M I know,
again, like I said earlier, akind of umbrella.
It really was more of aninterest in and not even
interest.
It was just like let's goexplore swinging Right.
I he knew I was bisexual, I hadcame out pretty early, even
before we even had any sort ofsexual relationship.
He knew what I was and it's thisemotional intelligence that we

(31:26):
had, this connection that we had, that he knew not necessarily
what I required, but he knewthat would make me more me Right
, which I can appreciate andsuper adore in a person and a
partner seeing in their partnerand in me, for example for him,
and super adore in a person anda partner seeing in their
partner and in me, for example,for him.
So really the start for me wasthis exploration in bisexuality

(31:49):
in an open way, right, and beingbisexual or being open in any
fashion.
While him being completelystraight his whole life was, I
think I had a more just, betterunderstanding of what could be,
whereas him being straight, alittle bit more closed, while
interested, less experienced,just in an emotional
intelligence way or a growth waythat allowed him to just have
that and be okay with it.
So I, interestingly, when hecame to me randomly, I think

(32:12):
about a year into ourrelationship, again about 10
years together, he said hey, Iwant to.
I saw this swinger one, thisswinger 101 night at club
sapphire in tequila and I waslike okay and it my interest was
more like wow, you, you'retaking such an interest in who I
am.
And it's not about swinging,it's about relating and seeing

(32:33):
and just being myself with otherpeople, right and people.
Again, the misconception I'msure you can see is this it's
about sex.

Speaker 1 (32:39):
Right, right, it's not about sex, it's included.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (32:42):
It's a bonus, in fact , but it's about relating to
people that see the world thatyou the way that you do yeah
Right, not necessarily the exactsame, but at least are
intelligent enough to want toexplore it together, each other,
when it's either bad or good.
So my exploration always hadstarted with him, colton, and
people always ask me like, oh,were you the one that asked?

(33:03):
Like no, colton was interestedand I was like, um, hell, yeah,
let's do this.
So we went to a Swinger 101night and from there it evolved
so to like having rules, to thendating people together, to
dating couples, to datingindividuals, to dating
separately, to dating back againpeople together.
It's just, it evolved so muchand the rules disappeared and

(33:25):
the emotional intelligence grewso much that, even through what
I said earlier, which is thispractice and panache and this
pain, right, you're sointerested in keeping it going.
Yeah, right, and it felt it'sfelt so right and I felt like,
in fact I always explain thatfirst night where we went to
Swinger 101.
Well, I'm not a swinger, Idon't identify that way and we
can get into that it's.

Speaker 1 (33:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (33:47):
It just felt like I was coming home.

Speaker 1 (33:49):
Yeah, oh, that's so nice yeah.
Oh, I's so cool To the peoplethat were emotionally
intelligent and capable enoughto experience the world in the

(34:09):
way not the same, but interestedin the same way of just being
open and being okay if it'sdifferent from me.
Yeah, that's where you knowlabels can be helpful and they
can be harmful.

Speaker 2 (34:15):
Misunderstood, in fact.

Speaker 1 (34:16):
Yeah, and they can cause us to really like
pigeonhole ourselves when itdoesn't make sense.
I know that for me, I don'tidentify as polyamorous or
swinger um, but I'm closer to aswinger potentially, um, in that
I'm in an open relationship um,my partner and I have defined

(34:36):
our own thing that works for us,um, wherein like we, we, we
kind of like, and I don't know.
There's a lot of stereotypesabout swingers and I don't know
how much those?
of you who are listening areaware of those stereotypes, but
well, the main one being it'sall about sex the main one being
it's all about all, and that'sthe only thing and that that's

(34:57):
the only thing and that it'svery much about is transactional
and that it's uh, it's always aswap which means like that you
trade partners and that that'slike a hard swap, um.
But really for me I feel like wefuck other people but we don't
date other people, and so that'swhy I sort of identify a little

(35:19):
bit more swinger and not asmuch polyam, um, but we
definitely fuck our friends.
We don't just like it's notlike something where so a lot of
swingers in the traditionalsense and I think it's probably
just a generation before us haverules where, like, if you swing

(35:43):
with each other, you can'tcontact each other ever again
after that oh gosh, that'sinteresting yeah, there's some
interesting rules.
There's a lot of rules aboutlike that.

Speaker 2 (35:51):
The men should never have anything to do with each
other sexually and only thewomen should and there's some I
think a lot of those stereotypesstill exist as a general
thought process and approach,but the reality tends to be a
little different and a littlebit more open, at least in today
.

Speaker 1 (36:08):
I think people start there because they're scared.

Speaker 2 (36:10):
And that's just like that's what it is.
Yeah, and then they explore andrealize at least in my
experience, similar it's.
I just love the connection andit doesn't have to be that
simple yeah we can dig deeper itdoesn't have to be and like for
us.

Speaker 1 (36:24):
We play with other people at parties and gatherings
and we set our own rolesliterally day to day, like how
do you feel about me hooking upwith other people today?
How do you feel about it?
How do you feel about thisperson, that person, whatever?
And that's how operate and itworks really well for us because
then we can adjust things basedon our current security level
as a couple or as individuals,even like if we have something

(36:47):
going on.
So that's how we personallyoperate and those are fun, in
which case it usually ends up ingroup sex.
It's not like a hard swapsituation.
It's like you have a wholeextra, like four hands, a whole

(37:08):
bunch of two mouths and a bunchof body parts that you can do
all kinds of things with.
There's no reason to be strict,Just boundaries right.
Yeah, just whatever works foryou.

Speaker 2 (37:17):
Yeah, and so.

Speaker 1 (37:18):
But for everybody there, yeah, for everybody
that's there.
So you know, we don't reallyfit any definition that I've
heard honestly Does anyone,though?

Speaker 2 (37:29):
Hold on, Does anyone?
The beginning of thisconversation started just like
this which?
Is how could you possiblysimplify your and who you are
with any topic fitness, how youwant to do your life, how you're
working to one article?
right to one thing and it'sbecause we're looking for that
relatability, sure, but I thinkit limits us in our ability to
explore who we are on our ownwithout that it totally does,

(37:53):
and I think it's like a hugerelief when, when my partner and
I are able to communicate withother people and be like here's
our, our deal.

Speaker 1 (37:59):
We're, you know, we're open to all kinds of
things.
We don't want to go on dates,but we want to explore together
and we are totally cool beingfriends afterward and
potentially doing things againand and all that stuff.
Yes, yeah, yeah.
So it's like it's our own sortof thing.
Um, but for us personally, aline has been that we don't.

(38:20):
We don't date other people.
So I'm curious, like what'syour current style and
arrangement?

Speaker 2 (38:26):
from.
A lot of my experience was withColton right.
It was Mike's husband and latebest friend, right, Wonderful
human.
We I learned so much fromstarting with all right, let's

(38:47):
go on a date with one persontogether and then evolving to a
right eventually and it's a bigstep to like rules and then
growing from there.
But fast forward, right,Getting separate.
I found myself being lessinterested.
It's not even like theexperience I preferred with my
person.
Now today, if you think aboutit, because I am single,

(39:09):
essentially right, I'm by myselfor I have all this experience
and I'm just me.
So my current thought processis what makes me my best self
and, after having been through agreat number of years
post-divorce and again, we loveeach other colton, wonderful
human.
Yeah, um, a lot of people in theworld I think that might even
hear this know who he was.
Yeah, um, it's just dealingwith that, with loss and all

(39:34):
these things.
Depression is a whole other,separate world and affects
everything that we think about.
But getting to this point in mylife where I know myself enough
, where I require being happyand happy can be different
levels, but also makingdecisions and being around
people and inviting people intomy life and relating to humans
that actually inspire me to bemy best self is critical.

(39:56):
So that's actually the baselineof every decision I make.
So so, right now, when you saycurrent style and arrangement,
I'm actually in a throuple rightnow and it's, it's, it's, it's
closed, and it's one of thosethings.
It's one of those things whereI think we'll talk about this in
a minute.
It's like how do?
What do you do with that?

(40:16):
Right, how to have?
I struggle with, or havestruggled, rather with, people
thinking exactly or thinkingabout me and knowing who I am
for me, on my behalf, saying youknow what you know?
Carly, I've always seen you inthe swinger world Sure, a lot of
people in the past.
It's been nine years.
I knew you all.
You all saw me that way.
But knowing me that way doesn'tmean that's who I am now.
So my arrangement now hasactually been, while enjoyable

(40:39):
for myself, a little bit of astruggle with relating to who
I've been.
So I've even heard thesentences of like oh, you're
going to close off thatrelationship, carly.
That's not going to be good foryou, and I'm like you don't.
I'm actually kind of sick ofpeople telling me who I am and
what I can do.
My arrangement is again, like Isaid, what makes me happy, what

(40:59):
makes me my best self andinspires me to work towards all
those things that are up.

Speaker 1 (41:04):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (41:04):
Right, I don't want to be depressed anymore.
I'm sick of that.
I've been through so much andit's hard for people to
understand that.
I think sometimes they mightrelate in their own way.
And it's hard for people justinitially from a surface level
when they hear these things getit, especially when they know a
Carly that's been an open, kindof fun checklist kind of gal.

Speaker 1 (41:23):
You know what?
I 100% agree with you and Ithink that there is a little bit
of a toxic attitude in theethical, non-monogamy world that
is open is always better,closed is toxic.
There's this idea out therethat that is the case and I can
tell you there have been timeswhen my relationship has been

(41:45):
closed that I've been very happythat it was and it was the
right thing for us, and I thinkthat it is really fucking
hypocritical.

Speaker 2 (41:56):
Unbelievable.

Speaker 1 (41:56):
To be telling people that they shouldn't judge you
for not being monogamous andthen judging people who are
monogamous so here's the deal.

Speaker 2 (42:05):
First of all, fuck, yeah, right, okay, exactly my
experience, when I say I'm sosick of it, comes from multiple.
So I dated a female for 11months, um, and monogamously.
To most people's minds, right,as soon as I started it, they're
like Carly, you've always beenso good.
You and Colton were always open.
Why would you do that?

(42:25):
You know what?
Because this is what I'm goingto fucking do.
Yeah, and I feel so happy aboutit and this is, I'm in love and
I want to do it Ended up noteven being that closed.
We experienced things together.
I'm all about.
It's not about education.
We just I do appreciate how onboard she was with just
exploring my friendship andloving me as I am, and people
just thought you know what,carly, you shouldn't do that

(42:47):
because that's not you.
You know what.
You don't know who the fuck Iam.
I don't know at any day what Iam and I'm just going to go with
again original point, with whatfeels, exactly what makes me
happy and my best self Granted,right, it's not about the
monogamy part failing, it'sabout narcissism and that
relationship not beingappropriate for me.
Moving on.
So again, end result to theprevious question was like I'm

(43:10):
in a throuple and it's closed,and I still have today,
experienced people being likeCarly.
Why are you doing that?

Speaker 1 (43:17):
I'm like.

Speaker 2 (43:18):
I'm sorry, do you?
Last time we talked was sevenyears ago and I don't.
It's not judgment, but it'skind of it's odd to me for you
to have such a strong opinionabout who I am slash was, slash
am at any moment.
For you to not understand thatI'm happy right now.
Look at me.

Speaker 1 (43:34):
I'm.

Speaker 2 (43:35):
I'm.
I'm experienced something thatmakes me my best self, and for
me it's almost to tears, likehow much better it is.
It's not even like therelationship, it's just that
it's me.
I am my best self, finally.
So it's silly to think youshould say anything otherwise or
make someone feel bad, and youcan't necessarily make people

(43:56):
feel things but like toinsinuate that that's not who
you are when I'm showing youexactly what I am.

Speaker 1 (44:02):
When you're saying this is what I have chosen, I'm
happy.
Just listen to me.
Respect what I have chosen.

Speaker 2 (44:07):
Respect and hear me when I say I'm happy.
Don't question it.
Unless you're like my bestfriend, it's like but are you
sure I'm like cool?
Yeah, yeah, I am sure.

Speaker 1 (44:14):
It is fair for people who are close to you to be like
, hey, hold on, I'm into that Ijust want to double check.
That's cool, right, like thatmakes sense.
And yet, at the same time, youhave to respect what people want
and need at the time, and Ireally.
What I have seen in this worldthat I have chosen to be a part
of, where there's a lot ofpeople who are ethically
non-monogamous in 100,000different ways, is that

(44:37):
everybody evolves, everybody isfluid, everybody it depends on.

Speaker 2 (44:41):
More than you think.

Speaker 1 (44:47):
Way more than you think.
It depends on their situationand what's going on with them
and what's going on with theirpartners and who their partners
are and everything.
And so I think there is atendency to put non-monogamy on
a pedestal like it's superior.

Speaker 2 (44:58):
This is where you are .
That's it.
You can't have anything elsenow.
You can't have anything else.

Speaker 1 (45:02):
Anything else is less than or, which is not
necessarily true.
You said you're here, so that'sall you can be, or it's your
identity, right?

Speaker 2 (45:07):
That's so stupid.
The identity is so much moreflexible.
It's ironic how we have thisidentity fluidity and it's like
they can't, and as soon as wetell them something, no, that's
it, yeah, why.
And also there doesn't have tobe them, just yeah, you guys
also fluid and all that Likethere's no either side.

(45:30):
People are just that way.

Speaker 1 (45:32):
Yeah, yep, people are , and I think it's really
important to.
If you want people who aremonogamous to respect people who
are not, you have to alsorespect people who are
monogamous, when you are notlike.
Oh my gosh yes, you just do.
It's.
The bottom fucking line is thatwe respect people's choices
about their sex and theirsexuality and, um, I think

(45:54):
that's like hugely important.
I I feel like so, I being thatI'm not poly and that probably
most of my friends are I think Ifeel like sometimes I feel
judge, not because in mysituation, not because my
friends are judging me, butbecause I'm judging myself by

(46:16):
what I think they're thinking,or whatever Projection yeah.
Total projection, totalprojection, total projection.
But like, really, I've thoughtabout all this stuff a lot and
for me, I just simply think thatpeople who are poly have
different needs than I have atthis time in my life.

Speaker 2 (46:31):
Interesting Go on.

Speaker 1 (46:32):
Yeah.
So I personally do not have thefucking bandwidth for more than
one romantic partnership.
I just don't have it.

(47:00):
I don't have it.
It's not how I.
Another thing even close tothat, because it's a lot, and so
I think for some people theirneeds are more in terms of
multiple romantic partners andthat they feel a sense of
abundance from that.
That I don't.
I feel drained, the idea of itdrains me and it may change at

(47:25):
some other time in my life.
May not heard some polyamorouspeople say is that being?
And I'm not monogamous?
Obviously I'm in an openrelationship, but so many terms
that being like not polyamorousis like expecting all your needs
to be met by one person, andthat's definitely not, there's

(47:49):
only, there's only two options,obviously right, exactly that's
that false dilemma.

Speaker 2 (47:53):
It's silly, right, it's the false, but I can
understand the worry because,yeah, it's the, the projection
of the insecurity.
About that alone, right.

Speaker 1 (48:01):
Exactly and then.
But for me I'm like, no, I have, like I have the most wonderful
, robust group of friends and Ifeel very lucky to have them in
my life and they support meemotionally in all these ways,
and we also sometimes have sex,and so I don't feel like I'm
asking for everything fromanyone, but it's, it's just an

(48:25):
interesting line that for me andmy partner we figured out it
just doesn't work for us to dateother people.

Speaker 2 (48:33):
That honestly okay.

Speaker 1 (48:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (48:36):
So interesting.
Go back to the so you said.
Polyamorous people have tendedto say that they their
experience was what exactly itwas?
What was it Expecting yourneeds to be met by one person?

Speaker 1 (48:50):
Well, I think that, and as we've discussed
throughout this chat, it'sthat's such a absolute.

Speaker 2 (49:03):
That's not.
That's not how everybody thinks.
As someone who identifies notin a different, but not opposite
, but a different, like I'mpretty polyamorous and even then
I've still seen those type ofpolyam people that speak that
way too, and it, that's okay.
I don't.
There's there's probably amillion different versions like
polyam a, b, c, d, e, f, g,whatever oh, there are a letter,

(49:25):
yeah right it's the letter,yeah, for sure it's.
Polyamory for me is yourindividual experience that
allows you to feel at homeyourself.
like I said, your best self andat the end of the day, relate to
people in a way that you're themost comfortable with.
So, like when you're saying,like sexuality, right, you said
you're more swingerside, yeah,right, I still think, just to

(49:49):
speak to you and my experiencein the past with that being a
priority and that's where Istarted is it's still not
necessarily about sex, it'sabout connection, yeah, relating
and seeing each other.
For the intelligent,emotionally capable people that
we are Right, and then with thatcomes this just spark Right A
lot of people.
I mean, you don't lean into itwhen you're monogamous,

(50:10):
necessarily, but whether you'rea couple, individual or some
sort of open individual, whenyou go into that world you feel
so seen and validated on adifferent level that you're like
, you can lean in and you canconnect and you can go to a boat
party, you can just have apotluck with them and their kids
, you can just see each other.

(50:37):
That is the most important partof polyamory to me is relating
and just being yeah.

Speaker 1 (50:39):
Just being yeah.

Speaker 2 (50:39):
Again, sex, even in both worlds, still being the
last thing.
If you look on the internet,swinger is just all about sex,
or at least forward with it.
Yeah, I still just don't agree.
I still can't agree with that.
I think it's still aboutconnection, feeling validated
and relating on a level thatmakes you feel like yourself.

Speaker 1 (50:53):
Yeah, I think for me the difference is for me, at
this point in my life I like forsex.
I have like a main partner whosex is very emotionally intimate
with and I really like, outsideof that, for sex to be playful
and for it to be play.
It's a form of play.
To me it's adult play and so Idon't want or seek that intimacy

(51:19):
level outside of my primarypartnership.

Speaker 2 (51:21):
I see that.

Speaker 1 (51:22):
Yeah, and so I enjoy.
It is connection, like I likeconnecting to people, but it's a
very different spirit ofconnection.

Speaker 2 (51:31):
I can I understand that?

Speaker 1 (51:33):
yeah.

Speaker 2 (51:33):
I so even with and people can take this for what
they want, right it.
When I got divorced, people arelike oh, it's because you were
open it is nothing right tofucking do with that at all.
Swear word necessary yeah.
I just we just didn't make eachother our best selves again.
So, in that spirit, when we hadan experience having a

(51:56):
girlfriend, having a couple,having our own boyfriend and our
own girlfriends whatever itmight be, as long as it added to
our relationship, it interestedus in moving forward.
That was a big piece of it andand I think I've shifted over
the years with what I need Iwill say and I don't know if I
mentioned this earlier so I'magain, I'm in a throuple, yeah,
and I love it, and it happens tobe closed, right.

(52:18):
So, as with any status that Iam, in there's some argument
that that's not you, Carly.

Speaker 1 (52:23):
Yeah, you know what, who?

Speaker 2 (52:24):
how could you possibly know?
it every day.
Right, it can change and I canappreciate that.
Who I am, how I experience lifein the daily life and how I
feel is better than even in theexperiences I've had with past
partners or individuals.
So I've experienced both beingwith a partner and having each
other to go play and I doappreciate what you said, which
is the play partners and havingplay.

(52:47):
I honestly there's a place forthat.
That's good fun.
It doesn't take away from yourinterest in connection and
building and even just likehaving regular events with
people that you just want to bearound that make you feel good
about yourself.
You can do that alone or with apartner.

Speaker 1 (53:01):
You can and I think it can be.
To me the sense of sexualplayfulness is like super
central to my interest in anykind of sex outside of my
primary relationship.
It just needs to be playful andneeds to be fun, needs to be
lighthearted, and then I'm likeall into it.
But if it feels too serious orwhatever, then like for me, I'm
like oh, and while sometimes youcan kind of work through those,

(53:24):
it's just learning.

Speaker 2 (53:26):
Yeah Right, learning moment.

Speaker 1 (53:27):
Yeah, and also yeah, a learning moment, and also just
like, ah, that's not what Iwant, and that's okay, and it's
okay to not want that.

Speaker 2 (53:34):
It's pretty cool how long it takes to realize that
too, though.

Speaker 1 (53:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (53:37):
Yeah, the spirit in which and the experiences you
have to have to know that.

Speaker 1 (53:41):
Yeah, yeah, I think.
So.
We had an interestingexperience, my partner and I,
where recently we werequestioning again the idea like
do we date other people?
Is that something that we do?

Speaker 2 (53:55):
just like casually.

Speaker 1 (53:57):
No, like separately, Just to like separately, in a
very casual sense, to like havesex.
Do we go on dates with otherpeople, which I would call a
fuck date Aggressive.
That's what I call it, just youknow.
But I thought about it a lotand I was like, you know, hmm,
interesting, hmm, and for me,the real, the real issue was it

(54:26):
felt like opening up to a typeof emotional intimacy that I
personally, and my partnerpersonally, only want to have
with one person, um, and that itjust sort of goes down that
road and I once again, you know,after questioning it and being

(54:50):
like, is that something that wewant to do?
Do we want to do that?
I don't know.
It's time to time to questionit right, was like nope, I don't
want to do that, I'm notinterested in that.

Speaker 2 (54:57):
Yeah, that is so fascinating.
I there's nothing that reallycan compare in my experiences to
being with such a veryimportant partner and the love
of my life, essentially, andexperiencing something that made
us so amazing together thatallowed us to experience people,
know each other better, makethose decisions.

(55:19):
Like you know, this doesn't add.
This is awkward.
Sometimes we lead into theawkward and just kind of have
sex?

Speaker 1 (55:26):
Yeah, for fun.

Speaker 2 (55:27):
It's a good time, and that's okay and it doesn't make
us more swinger.
It's just you know what.
That's what we leaned into andmade us kind of happy and
playful that day.
Playful, right, yeah.
And there's ones that were like, wow, this is more serious and
we should talk about it and itis awkward but we still want to
go through it.
And polyamory in this world,compersion, is essentially like

(55:53):
you're turned on, it's not evensexual, it doesn't have to be
sexual, you're interested andthere's this joy, excitement in
seeing your partner be so happy.
So I do appreciate A that.
Just because this is a largepart of my experience Colton is
involved in this is I got to seea lot of that when we got to
that level where we did dateseparately.
The joy and even the not sogood experiences where he got to

(56:15):
go date alone.
It wasn't a good date.
He got home to me and I waslike it's okay, babe.

Speaker 1 (56:19):
It's okay, I'm here.

Speaker 2 (56:20):
So there's a joy in the pain and the joy that still
adds to the relationship eitherway.
Now compersion, while stillincredible, there's so much
complication the further you gowhere you date separately.

Speaker 1 (56:34):
Right, it's just, I wasn't there, so I don't know,
right, yeah.

Speaker 2 (56:35):
So I can understand why there's a disinterest in it
as well, and at the end of theday, the best experiences are
when you do it together.

Speaker 1 (56:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (56:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (56:43):
Yeah, I think for us that's been like.
Our litmus test is always likedo we feel like, whatever this
experience is, whether it'ssomething that's for just one of
us, because we definitely willhave sex with other people just
one of us or just the otherperson, like it's not, we don't
always have to do that together.
But our big thing is does thislike add to our connection or
does this take away from ourconnection?

Speaker 2 (57:04):
right, and that's kind of our litmus test at this
point in time yeah, and I Ithink what's interesting is I've
I've more recently experiencedthis level in several years of
doing this alone, and it's notlike I've changed in my
understanding and experiencesthat you can't take that away.
It's how do I apply it to thissingle life and how do I

(57:27):
experience it and how do Iunderstand myself now, yeah, and
there's a lot to learn from it,and it comes with the people
that be like oh, it's still notyou, carly, again, still stick
with that shit.
But, yeah, like it.

Speaker 1 (57:40):
It's a very different experience and, um, I can
appreciate it, yeah, and alsostruggle with it at times right,
yeah, that's that's sointeresting and that's such a
good point is that navigatingall of this in a couple versus
navigating all of this more as asingle unit is so different and
so interesting and just like.

Speaker 2 (57:58):
And I don't have an answer.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (57:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (58:00):
I've just I know, like I said earlier, what makes
me happy, makes me feel like mybest self and inspires me to
just be more me.
Yes, and, like I said, throuple, that happens to be what makes
me feel my best right now.

Speaker 1 (58:13):
Yes, and.

Speaker 2 (58:13):
I love it Awesome.

Speaker 1 (58:15):
That's so awesome.
That's how I feel about mycurrent arrangement is like
we're so fluid about it and wecheck in about it a lot and that
this is what feels good andright, and it feels like it
enhances our lives and we'relike we're into it, like it
enhances our lives and we'relike we're into it.
So I'm curious.
In fact, this kind of toucheson what we were talking about is

(58:49):
like is being polyamorous whoyou are?

Speaker 2 (58:50):
as an identity or is it what you've chosen as a
circumstance?
Or it could be both, or itcould be Neither.
That's a great question.
You know, I give myself thegrace to rediscover versions of
myself, right, and that losingmyself and who I thought I was
the first time and that hadnothing to do with necessarily
the lifestyle, but so much asjust like getting a back injury
and losing being a greatbodybuilder at the time

(59:10):
Rediscovering who I was was like, oh, you can do that and still
be happy, right, you can alsorediscover and still fail at the
same time in my head.
So to disappear, to come backand still keep going, I think,
is the most important part, orat least it has been for me and
the caveat is that it's stillinspiring, like I said multiple

(59:30):
times, the happiness and or atleast a path towards it where
you see a little light, if youthink of like Beauty and the
Beast, where she's going downthe dark or light path.
Right, it's not necessarily thedark is worse, but it's like,
at least go that direction.
Maybe it's more, I don't know,but yeah, it does.
That kind of answer.

Speaker 1 (59:50):
Yeah, yeah, that makes sense, I think, going
toward what feels right for youand what aligns with you at the
time, and I think the mostimportant thing is like
recognizing that it's going toshift over time.

Speaker 2 (01:00:02):
Yeah, and being okay with it is a whole other level
of understanding that it takestime and probably multiple
rediscoveries at the same timeas losing yourself, and it's
rough to feel like you've lostwho you are.
We put a lot of eggs in onebasket because that's just who
we feel like we're going to beforever, and the reality is that
we just absolutely, absolutelywon't right.
We're so many things, we're somany different colors, and so

(01:00:25):
realizing all those things takesso much time and it's going to
take our entire lives.
To see it that way it's true.

Speaker 1 (01:00:31):
I feel like it's something like um, maybe right
now my favorite dessert is dolcede leche and maybe in a couple
months it's going to be a moltenchocolate lava cake, and maybe
you know what I mean, and I, I,just I, I kind of like to think
of it that way, like whatever isright for me is going to
continue to evolve, and I don'tthink evolve might not even

(01:00:51):
actually be the right word.
It's going to shift.
I don't think one is better thanthe other.
I think they're just a betterfit, or less of a good fit for
who you are at the time.

Speaker 2 (01:01:01):
Like my mom said earlier in this is loving and
accepting have to go togetherfor either to be true, right yes
, loving yourself for who youare and what happens, and
accepting for whatever actuallyoccurs, whether it's a different
version, whether you lostsomething and it's over here now
.
They can't exist without eachother.
So seeing that for yourself, Ithink, is pretty critical to the

(01:01:23):
future of being who you are.

Speaker 1 (01:01:25):
That's true.
I think that you're right.
I think you're onto something.
Maybe, All right, awesome, allright.
Well, thank you.
We've been on for a while.
We could talk forever.
I know All day, but thank youso much for coming on and
talking about this.
I really appreciate it.
It's been an awesomeconversation.

Speaker 2 (01:01:40):
Really though.

Speaker 1 (01:01:40):
Yes, so good, all right, thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:01:43):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:01:43):
All right, Bye y'all.
No-transcript.