Starving for Sexy: Where Sex Meets Diet Culture

Can a high-tech scale really measure your self-worth? Join us on this episode of the Joosi Sex Podcast as Kim and I, your host Alisa, have a raw and heartfelt discussion on diet culture. We dig deep into the ingrained societal beliefs that equate thinness with health and goodness, revealing the relentless pressure to shrink our bodies to fit these arbitrary ideals. Reflecting on past dieting fads like the ultra low-fat craze of the 90s, we reveal how these ever-changing trends contribute to a toxic cycle of shame and confusion.

Hear our honest takes on the mental and emotional toll these diets have had on us, from the highs of calorie counting to the despair of watching our weight yo-yo despite all efforts. We share our personal battles with diet culture, recounting how strict diet rules and the irrational hope of fitting into old clothes have fed into feelings of failure and disordered eating. Through our stories, we underscore the importance of rejecting shame and acknowledging that the struggle with body image is a shared human experience.

Finally, we confront the dangers of diet pills and extreme workout regimens. Hear about an addiction to Oxy Elite during college and the chilling parallels between dieting and substance addiction. Kim and I emphasize the need for self-compassion in this ongoing journey and advocate for healthier, guilt-free approaches to food and wellness. Tune in for an episode that promises to resonate deeply, offering both insight and solidarity in the quest to break free from toxic ideologies around dieting and body image.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
My partner right now is trying to do a healthy
lifestyle and lose some weightand reach some goals of his, and
he bought this fancy ass like$500 scale which I was super
nervous about bringing it in,but I was like, okay, I'm going
to like be aware of my past andnot weigh myself every day,

(00:24):
weigh myself periodically.
So I wanted to test myself, andso I, I weighed myself in the
morning and then I pooped.
Like this was it within a 10minute period?
Weighed myself, pooped, weighedmyself again and I gained
weight.
I never I wind down.
I'm like, what the fuck like,how does that happen?

(00:48):
I did not eat anything at allthis morning, but I pooped and I
gained weight.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
So that that that is bullshit welcome to the juicy
sex podcast, where my friendsand I have raw, unf, unfiltered
and hilarious conversationsabout all things sex.
I'm Alisa Eddie, the founderand CEO of Juicy Sexual Wellness
, where we try the toys and helpyou find the right one for you.

(01:14):
Now on to the podcast.
All right, welcome.
We are talking about sex anddiet culture today, and I have
my very special guest, kim, here.
Say hello, hello everyone.
We are going to be discussingsome difficult things, so

(01:38):
there's a little bit of acontent warning.
We're having a candiddiscussion about dieting and
eating disorders, disorderedeating and body image, and you
need to proceed with caution ifthis is a triggering subject for
you, and just be aware of that.
All right, my loves.
First of all, how about thatorange wine?

(02:03):
It was actually pretty good.

Speaker 1 (02:06):
It was good.
It was way better than mine.
I liked it.
Yeah, it was nice and tart, butnot like overwhelming.
I was scared it was going to betoo orange peely.
Oh yeah, yeah, but it wasn't,it was very orange inside.

Speaker 2 (02:23):
Yeah.
So we went to a little wine barright before we came here and
we had some orange wine, whichit doesn't actually have oranges
in it.
It's a different process of howthey use the white grapes.

Speaker 1 (02:36):
Oh, I didn't realize.

Speaker 2 (02:37):
Yeah, and they like keep the peels on and whatever.
Oh, anyways, so it was reallygood though it was interesting,
it was really good it was reallyslow but it was really good.

Speaker 1 (02:50):
Very slow service, but for a wine bar I think
that's appropriate.
But for what we needed.
Wine bar is definitely not whatwe need to go to next time.

Speaker 2 (02:59):
Yes, it was not maybe the best option for pre-pod
course, but that's okay, allright, cool.
So we are going to set ourintentions for today.
The intention of this episodeis to, of course, say fuck,
shame.
And the way that we do that isby helping people see that they

(03:23):
are not alone.
The way that we do that is byhelping people see that they are
not alone, that these reallyhard, difficult, challenging
things that you experience andthat you think shame tells you
that you're alone and you'reweird and you're bad, and we're
here to say you're not.
There's a lot of people outhere that are experiencing that
and we want to make sure thatyou know you're not alone.
No, you are not, that's right,all right.

(03:43):
So you are not, that's right,all right.
So we are not experts on dietculture.
We do not have PhDs in dietculture, but we are two women
living in this world and weunderstand and we have a lot of
experiences to share.
Yes, we do.
Yeah, what is diet culture?

(04:04):
I would spend a lot of timejust coming up with my own
definition, but I think it'sbetter to read you this one that
I found.
So bear with me because it'skind of technical, but I think
it's really good.
Oh, all right.
So at its highest level, dietculture is a system of social
beliefs and expectations thatvalues thinness above all.

(04:25):
This system equates having athin body with being healthy and
consequently assumes those inlarger bodies are unhealthy, and
puts the pursuit of thinness ona moral pedestal.
That's huge.
In other words, if you're notthin, or aspiring to be so, diet

(04:48):
culture works to make you feelguilty, less worthy or even
oppressed.

Speaker 1 (04:54):
Yeah, that is a very clear and good definition, but
it's so sad, it is so fuckingsad, so sad, yeah, and I feel
and identify with so much ofthat definition, so much of it.

Speaker 2 (05:10):
Yeah that, if you're not, if you're at a time in your
life where you're not thin, youhave to be trying to be thin,
Absolutely.
And if you're not trying to bethin, there's just this moral
problem with that?

Speaker 1 (05:21):
Yeah, what's wrong with you?
Why are you not aspiring tothat?

Speaker 2 (05:25):
yeah, yeah, exactly so I think that's a it's a heavy
one.
It is heavy, yeah, it is, butit's.
These are the kind of things,this is the system that we live
under that nobody fucking talksabout.

Speaker 1 (05:39):
Nope, yeah, just live with it and I think saying it
out loud and acknowledging itthat way has a lot of power Like

(06:00):
we want to embrace thosehealthy bodies, no matter what
they look like.
But here's this other fad.
And do this, yeah, because youcan do better than what we're
trying to say is acceptable.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (06:12):
Yeah, exactly, it's like it's always both.
It's like, yeah, bodies thataren't thin are great, they're
great, they're great.
But anyways, here's how youlose weight and here's how you
stay thin.
Yep, great, they're great,they're great, but anyways,
here's how you lose weight andit's just fucking sucks.
It does.
Yeah, so I was thinking aboutwhat kinds of diets I have tried

(06:34):
in my life, and I was ateenager in the 90s, so I got to
experience the ultra low fatdiet fad, which was really, by
today's standards, reallyinteresting because like, for
example, instead of gettingmovie popcorn, what, like the
diet trick was was to getpopcorn flavored jelly beans,

(06:57):
because they have zero fat butthey taste like butter, and so,
yeah, and that was that was likethe healthy thing to do.
No, because there was no fatand because people were afraid
of that.
But of course, now you're notgetting the fiber and fat is
okay, and you know, yeah, sothat was the 90s.
They they came up with this um,artificial fat or something, a

(07:20):
fat you couldn't digest calledolestra, and they were making
potato chips with this stuff andthe I'm so disgusted by this,
like what the hell did that doto your body?

Speaker 1 (07:33):
well, one of the like risks that they had to to
mention on the bag was analleakage oh my yeah, it's like
the artificial sweeteners whereyour stomach is like nope,
you're not staying in my body.

Speaker 2 (07:49):
Exactly, yeah, so those lasted, I don't know,
maybe six months, that peoplewere trying those things, and
then they were like never mind.

Speaker 1 (07:58):
I'm sure they lost weight with that anal leakage.
Yeah, anal leakage is one wayto lose weight.

Speaker 2 (08:03):
Of course, it's all like water and maybe a little
bit of your soul.

Speaker 1 (08:06):
Yeah, you want to smell like anal leakage during
your day.

Speaker 2 (08:10):
So terrible With these jelly beans.
Yeah, and have some jelly beans.
See, another diet for me was,yeah, when I first moved out
from my parents, I was reallypoor and all I could afford was

(08:30):
top ramen and I mean, I gotreally skinny and I lost like
half of my hair.
Oh no, I was not gettingadequate nutrition and I think
like the sodium, I don't know,but like, yeah, I lost half my
hair and I got really thin and Iremember my mom was like, oh,
why are you losing weight?
And I was like I'm not tryingto, mom, I can't afford food
right now.
And she was like oh my God, youknow and went and took me food
shopping.

(08:50):
But yeah, so that's not reallya technical diet, but it
happened, yeah it happenedDefinitely and ironically, while
it was happening, I would runinto people and they'd be like
oh, you look so good because Iwas losing weight and I'm like
I'm literally hungry, I'mstarving myself, I'm literally
fucking hungry, yeah, and you'retelling me that I look great?

(09:11):
Yeah, fuck that shit.

Speaker 1 (09:14):
Yeah, I'm sorry.
I'm very careful when it comesto complimenting somebody, like
if I know they're on a weightloss journey, then I'll like say
something to praise whatthey're doing, like I can tell
the work that you're doing ispaying off.
But I will never say like, oh,you look like you've been losing
weight.
Or I try to like word or phrasemy words very differently, so

(09:36):
it's not like, oh, you're losingweight, but it's like oh, it
seems like you're achieving yourgoals exactly you're achieving
your goal yeah so it's not likeif somebody is not trying to
lose weight and they're justeating or they can't, yeah, so
it's like trying to frame it, soit's not triggering, but yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:53):
I don't know.
It's really hard to do becauseyou, if someone has that goal
and they're working really hardtoward it, you want to
acknowledge it and at the sametime it's so toxic to be like
thinner is better, smaller isalways better and to assume that
something is good just becausesomeone is getting smaller.
Yeah, um, yeah, I think that'sa.

(10:13):
That is something to thinkabout everybody we'll talk more
about that later.
Yes, um, then I had my mom had aheart attack when I was like 25
.
And they said it was a hormonalheart attack, which who knows.
She didn't have any blockages,but she got like really upset in

(10:34):
a conversation with somebodyand had a heart attack, Anyways.
And then after the heart attack, it was became clear that she
had diabetes, which was new.
And so then there were all theselike here's what you're
supposed to eat for diabetes andso then I changed my diet to
try and prevent getting diabetesbecause I was so afraid of that

(10:54):
.
But what I did was I startedlike cooking all these expensive
whole foods foods from scratchin my house, which which is
lovely, but I also gained weightbecause I was just eating a lot
more.
Yeah, sure, they were likewhole grains, but they were.
You know, it was a lot morefood.
Later in my life I did a vegandiet for three years, which was

(11:21):
I read some books about like thehealth benefits and and really
for me a lot of it was theanimal welfare issue, because
I'm a big animal lover.
I work with animals when I'm notat a podcast studio and, um, I
felt like it was a way that Icould make a difference.
And yet I was just alwayshungry.

(11:42):
For like three years I wasalways hungry.
I mean, my hair and my skinlooked great because of all the
vegetables.

Speaker 1 (11:51):
Because I was doing it like really clean vegan.

Speaker 2 (11:53):
But I was just like.
All I could think about all daywas what I was going to eat
next and like making it, becausethat was like 10 years ago,
before there was all this veganfood available everywhere.
So if you were vegan, you hadto make your shit shit.
Nobody was just selling thatshit to you.
That was when and you have aplate full of broccoli.

Speaker 1 (12:12):
You're gonna be hungry in an hour exactly, and
you know it, so your brain isjust like always like okay, what
will I eat next?
What will I eat next?
It's exhausting.

Speaker 2 (12:19):
Yeah, it's exhausting .
Um then I've done low carb andI did keto last year, which was
so I went through like I think,after the vegan thing, I had
done some reading and done someresearch and done some soul
searching and was like I'm donewith dieting.
I don't think it's healthy, Ithink it's bad for you and I

(12:43):
know it's for me.
It's bad for me mentally, andso I decided to jack out of that
system.
But then I had a partner whoreally wanted to lose weight and
really wanted to do a keto diet, and it's pretty hard to not
have the same diet with somebodyin your house.
So I was like, okay, sure, I'll,just I'm going to do this,

(13:06):
we're going to do this.
And then, um, what it did wasit kind of like kicked into gear
all these like old diet culture, eating disorder-y, weird uh
thought patterns that I havethat, and it was like, fuck man,
you know, I now I'm, now I'mcounting again how many carbs

(13:30):
that I had today, how manycalories have I had today, how
many like everything.
So that was part of why we'reeven talking now was that I kind
of dipped my toe back in and itsort of took over and it was
not awesome's scary when you,yeah, reintroduce yourself to
that and you think you're goingto be able to be healthier or

(13:51):
it's going to be different, butit never will be.

Speaker 1 (13:54):
It's it, it's.
You never get over that side ofyourself.
It never changes.
You have those same minds overthat same mindset and those same
experiences, no matter what orhow long it's been since, since
the beginning.

Speaker 2 (14:10):
Yeah, it's crazy, it just like.
It just like came right back.
It's like, oh, ok, this is how.
And I think the worst thingabout it was this feeling that
if I had not met the targets ofthis diet, that I was a failure.
And it was day to day like, oh,you just went over 25 grams of

(14:32):
carbohydrates for the day.
God, you're just so terrible,you're a failure, right.
And then now I feel bad aboutmyself.
Now I don't want to go outbecause I feel like I'm bad.
Now I don't want to do things Ienjoy.
Feel like I'm bad.
Now I don't want to do things Ienjoy.
I don't have levity because I'msitting here in this state of
depressed oppression from myfucking diet.

Speaker 1 (14:53):
Yeah, or this pair of pants that fit me great.
This morning feel like an inchoff this afternoon because I
went 20 grams over my carbs.

Speaker 2 (15:05):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So that was really hard for meum to realize that I was still
still fucking in it.

Speaker 1 (15:18):
I'm just still in it, yep.

Speaker 2 (15:19):
And then I looked back and I was like actually
I've been in it for so longCause I looked back and I was
like I didn't think it for solong because I looked back and I
was like I didn't think ofthese things as diets, but they
were fucking diets, yeah, and Iwas counting things out and I
was basing my self-esteem onwhether or not I had um stuck
with whatever, the yeah, so Icall it um diet math.

(15:48):
So have you ever heard?
There's a, an article that cameout like a year or two ago
about hair math for women, whichI was like it sounds weird but
it's really interesting, and itwas talking about like how much
we have to think about which daywe should wash our hair, what
we should do like do I work out?
Because I don't want to wash myhair today, but I have a
meeting and I want to lookreally good, yeah, so like all

(16:09):
this fucking math about managingour hair and like which days
get the wash and which days wecan do what activities because
of how it's going to affect ourhair.
Yeah, and it's the same thingwith the dieting, and so I was
thinking it's like this um,middle of the day, how many

(16:30):
calories do I have left fordinner, right, yeah, oh shit,
I'm gonna count them up.
I had like 150 60 for thatbanana, 120 for the peanut
butter.
Oh shit, I only have 400calories left for dinner, yeah,
right.

Speaker 1 (16:44):
Or I get a stick of broccoli.

Speaker 2 (16:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (16:47):
Or a stick of asparagus for dinner yeah.

Speaker 2 (16:51):
And you know which is sometimes the result.
Also this like maybe if I poopI'll weigh less.

Speaker 1 (17:01):
Do you relate to that ?
I do, so I was reading thesenotes earlier and I laughed my
ass off because so give a littlebackstory.
My partner right now is, um,trying to do a healthy lifestyle
and and lose some weight andand reach some goals of his, and
he bought this fancy ass like$500 scale which I was super

(17:25):
nervous about bringing it in,but I was like, okay, I'm gonna
like be aware of my past and notweigh myself every day, but
weigh myself periodically.
So I wanted to test myself andso I I weighed myself in the
morning and then I pooped likethis was it within a 10 minute
period?
Weighed myself, poop.
I weighed myself in the morningand then I pooped Like this was

(17:45):
within a 10 minute period.
Weighed myself, pooped, weighedmyself again and I gained
weight.
I wind down and I'm like, whatthe fuck?
Like, how does that happen?
I did not eat anything at allthis morning, but I pooped and I
gained weight.
So that is bullshit.

(18:06):
But I laughed so hard when Iread that point because I was
like, nope, doesn't, doesn'twork.

Speaker 2 (18:13):
You can poop and still gain weight, I know, and
sadly I've been like, and thosemornings were like, oh no, and
the scale went up and I'm likemaybe if I, maybe if I poop
it'll go down, even though Iknow it's not going to, but it
can go up.

Speaker 1 (18:27):
But it's just like this desperation for the number
to go down, because the numbergoes down, then I'm good.

Speaker 2 (18:34):
Yeah, and if the number is higher than this
arbitrary line I've set in myhead, I'm bad.
Yep, right, let me tell you astory.
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(19:23):
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(19:44):
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(20:07):
You know, one of them is whenwe keep old clothes right Like
these are my skinny clothes andthis idea that if we get rid of
them, we're getting rid of ourskinny self Right, even if

(20:28):
they're like way the fuck out ofstyle.
Yeah, you're not gonna wear thisshit again.
Right, it's and it's, just sitsthere like taunting you in your

(20:53):
closet.

Speaker 1 (20:55):
I had 80 pairs of jeans, holy crap.
That did not fit.
Oh my god, holy crap, want tobe that person again that fits
into these pants.
You know what that person was.
You don't want to be thatperson again.
So you need to let them go andI like, separated them on what
actually fits and sat with them,stared at them for probably a

(21:19):
week had them like in my livingroom.
So my partner and I both knewlike it's time to get rid of
these 80 pairs of jeans thatwere in my closet and then found
friends that I knew would fitActually I had.
We have a girlfriend that herand her two daughters that would
enjoy these jeans, and it was awide variety of styles.

(21:47):
So with her and her teenagegirls, like I knew it would like
spark them joy.
So it made it so much easier.
But 80 pairs of jeans that Iheld onto for four years, for
four years, hoping that I wasgoing to fit them back into them
.

Speaker 2 (22:02):
Even though you know that you don't, you're not
joyful when you're living thelife of the person that fits in
those jeans nope, no, but itfeels like almost this is where
the morality comes into it.
Right?
It feels like the right thingto do.

(22:25):
Yeah, to like torment yourselfwith that it does.

Speaker 1 (22:29):
Yeah, yeah, like getting dressed every day.
Looking at those jeans, likeright in front of me, like 80
pairs of jeans is a huge stack.
It's a huge.
Yeah, it's a decent pair of astack of jeans.
Yeah, yeah, it's a torment forsure.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:47):
Yeah, and I just think that this notion that we
have to suffer if we don't feelthin is just so baked into that
and I fucking understand it.
I didn't have 80 pairs of jeans, but you know, I've been there,

(23:10):
yeah.
So, like for me, I started tonotice after the dieting got
introduced back into my worldthat I would weigh myself every
single morning and if I gavemyself like a four pound window

(23:36):
because of water, weight andwhatever, like this range is OK,
but if you go above it, thenabove it, then you're not okay.
Secretly, it was really a twopound window.
Yeah, I was gonna say fourpounds is quite a yeah, but
logically I knew it should belike four.
Yeah um yeah and so, but whatwould happen is, if it was up,
I'd be, it would affect my moodfor the whole day.
I'd be like I feel bad aboutmyself, I, I'd be down, um, and

(24:01):
that just fucking sucks, yeah,even if I go.
Okay, well, actually, yesterdayyou drink alcohol, you had a
bunch of salt.
It makes sense that you havemore water in your body right
now, but it doesn't matter thenumber.
You know the number rules alland I feel bad about myself,
yeah, um, and then also the like, this idea that was happening

(24:23):
for me, of one wrong food choiceruining my day, like my.
So you know, if you are on ketoand you have a piece of bread
and you're like it'll be fine,and then you look up the carbs
and that specific piece of breadon your app on your phone, yeah

(24:46):
, and it turns out it put youover, and then it's just like
well, now my day is ruined, mydieting day is ruined.

Speaker 1 (24:52):
Yeah, now I'm trying to work myself back into ketosis
.

Speaker 2 (24:56):
Like.

Speaker 1 (24:56):
I can't do anything else.
Yeah, mm-hmm, yep.

Speaker 2 (25:01):
Yeah, and I fucking hate, I hate that, I hate this
diet math.
I hate living under the tyrannyof these numbers deciding how I
feel about myself Yep, any ofthese numbers deciding how I
feel about myself.
And when these numbers decidehow we feel about ourselves,
they decide how we behave andhow we treat ourselves.
And it's just so much deeperthan just like, for many of us

(25:25):
not for everyone, but for manyof us it's so much deeper than
just weighing yourself every day.
It's really really complex.
Yeah, all right, I think thatthis is a really good time to
make a fucking important point,which is we're talking about
toxic, dangerous for some people, life-ending diet culture and

(25:46):
stuff.
That is really fucking hard, andwe are connecting over our
shared experience and supportingeach other through it.
Yep, but not promoting theseideas Abso-fucking-lutely not.
So, yeah, to be 100% clear,when we talk about that, we were

(26:08):
counting our carbs for keto orwe were, you know, we are
describing a difficultexperience that we had and
connecting over it.
We are not in any way trying toencourage you or anyone else to
do that.
So, yeah, I just want to makethat clear.
Yep, and then I also want tosay we had accidentally, um, our

(26:33):
computer died in the middle ofthe podcast and we went on for
20 glorious fucking minutes ofpodcasting that you guys are
never gonna hear, because thecomputer died yes, it did so
we're gonna just go on with thestory and try to go back to
where we were, but I just wantto let you know if it feels a
little bit abrupt right now.

Speaker 1 (26:52):
That's what happened it was the perfect time for a
potty break it was.

Speaker 2 (26:57):
We both had to pee.
Yep, it was you know worked outthe gods.
The gods were looking out forus.
So, okay, I'll pick up where Ileft off, which was I was
talking about all the fuckingdiet math and how much of your
brain is occupied by diet math.
I am sitting at my desk.

(27:19):
I could be doing amazing thingsfor my startup and changing the
world, but what I'm trying tofigure out is how many grams of
sugar did that granola bar havein it?

Speaker 1 (27:31):
and I mean the absurdity of this fuck right,
yeah, yeah, it makes it so mucheasier.
Now you can scan the barcodeand so you don't have to enter
in every little, fucking littlething, but it's still as bad
it's still so bad yeah, it'sstill so bad.

Speaker 2 (27:51):
It's just.
Yeah, it's a way to be obsessedand to question your own value,
yeah, so when I realized howmuch of the shit I was actually
doing, I decided I needed to doa detox.
So I read this book that I hadbeen hearing about that was
recommended to me, which wascalled Intuitive Eating.

(28:12):
About that was recommended tome, which was called Intuitive
Eating.
Now, it was written by twodietitians and it is just filled
with peer-reviewed research,absolutely impeccably researched
book, strong, solid foundation,and they basically say

(28:32):
something that we already knowand it's fucking profound, which
is dieting is bad for you.
Weird, yeah, and they're likestop dieting and you'll have
better health outcomes.
We know this, the research bearsit out, and yet we're still
dieting.
Yep, right.
So I just find myself kind offlabbergasted that we're at this

(28:55):
moment in time when we've knownfor a damn long time now that
dieting isn't good for you and,at the very least, if you wanted
to put thinness on a pedestal,we know that over time it tends
to result in weight gain, butoverall it's not linked to
positive health outcomes.
So, okay, how is it also linkedto virtuousness, then?

(29:20):
Right, for what?
For who?
To something that was a newconcept to me that really kind
of blew my mind, which was weall have this fantasy of this

(29:41):
skinny self that we will somedaybe.
So it tends to be that we have acertain weight like a weight
that we were at a certain time,or a weight that we decided was
our ideal weight, and that webelieve that when we are this
weight, we will get the kind ofsexual attention that we want.

(30:03):
We will feel confident, we willfeel free and confident enough
to do the things that weactually want to do.
We believe that people willtreat us differently at this
weight and that we're going tofeel differently in our own skin
and that we all sort of havethis fantasy skinny self that

(30:24):
we're connected to.
That keeps us addicted to thediet culture, and this resonated
so fucking strongly with methat we're connected to, that
keeps us addicted to the dietculture and I this resonated so
fucking strongly with me.
It just was like Fuck me, it'strue, it's fucking true.

Speaker 1 (30:43):
Do you relate to this ?
I do, yeah, I do In theprevious recording.
I want to go back to.
This is where you brought upyour story Of your past with
your ex husband.
And I thought that was veryimportant, so I want to make
sure we don't miss that.
So I think it's a good point ora good spot to bring that up.

Speaker 2 (31:05):
Yeah.
So here's an example of what Imean.
So I was married to analcoholic for 10 years.
I was married to an alcoholicfor 10 years and I don't know,
it was probably five to sevenyears in when it was, like God,
really bad, and it somehowcoincidentally linked up with

(31:34):
when I became vegan and startedto go to the gym four days a
week, like religiously, yeah,and I did all the things you're
supposed to do.
I was eating the most virtuous,the most healthy fucking diet
you could eat.
I was going to the gym, I wasgetting a ton of cardio, I was
doing a ton of weightlifting, Iwas in shape, I was healthy as
fuck and my partner was still analcoholic and my life was still

(32:02):
not good.
And I had believed which Ididn't realize it until I got
there that I had believedsomehow that if I could just be
virtuous enough to be thin andquote, unquote healthy, that my
life would come together.

Speaker 1 (32:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (32:21):
Because this is what we're taught Like, this is what
the movies and the TV shows say.
It's like oh well then you just, you lose weight and you become
the perfect weight, and theneverything just comes together.
Lose weight and you become theperfect weight, and then
everything just comes together.
And I remember being like fuckme, dude, like I am vegan, I'm
forgoing the wonders of butterand bacon.
Yeah, right, and all the changethat I wanted didn't happen,

(32:48):
because my hope, my hope, myhope, my subconscious hope, was
that I could inspire myalcoholic husband into taking
care of himself.
So I thought, if I can be themost healthy person that I can
be, he will see it and he willbe around it, and then he will
become healthy too.

(33:08):
Yeah, and it didn't work.
No, spoiler alert.
Yeah, it doesn't work.
Nope, and it didn't work.
Spoiler alert, it doesn't work.
It was really sad for me torealize that and to know how
much hope I had put into thisand, quite frankly, it's sad to

(33:28):
know how much pressure I had puton myself.

Speaker 1 (33:32):
Yeah, for being responsible for his need to
change or his happiness.

Speaker 2 (33:37):
Yeah exactly Like that.
If I am perfect, it will changehim, which I'm a smart person.
I know that's not true, but itwas a hook for me subconsciously
and it controlled years of mylife.

Speaker 1 (33:55):
Yeah, yeah.
I think it's a good point justoutside of diet culture.
Like, no matter what the fuckyou do to make your life better,
your partner, who has thesenegative bullshit tendencies,
will never change and nevercatch on to that.
They will never change.
I think that alone is just agood point in relationship
advice yeah, yeah, that's true,that's true.

(34:18):
You can't change people, no, youcannot change people and you
can't force them or encouragethem to get on the same
wheelhouse that you're on,regardless of what it is,
especially with a healthylifestyle.
Yeah, especially More unhealthylifestyle, healthy-ish.

Speaker 2 (34:39):
Yeah, I mean, I think it's just like you can't change
other people by changingyourself.

Speaker 1 (34:47):
Nope yeah.

Speaker 2 (34:48):
And I think I suspect I'm going.
I'm off the grid right now,yeah, but I suspect that for
women, this is a very commondelusion.
Absolutely yeah.
We believe that if we canbecome the most perfect version
of ourselves, those around uswho we love will also elevate.
Yep.

Speaker 1 (35:08):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (35:09):
Not true, not true.
And what pressure?
Yeah, what pressure, pressure.
Not worth it.
Are you gonna have eggs withyour breakfast?
Do you want your husband to bean alcoholic and die?
No, okay, no eggs.
No, I'm good like I'm gonnajust have the tofu scramble.
It's absurd.

(35:30):
I mean, when you say it outloud, it's fucking ridiculous.

Speaker 1 (35:34):
Yeah, but that's what it's like it's that, yeah, it's
reality, it's reality yeah,yeah, I laugh at myself um, yeah
we get these ideologies and itwe convince ourselves that

(35:55):
they're real and that's what hasto happen, and it we are so
fucking good at convincingourselves that that is real, and
and it's reality, it's.
It's crazy what our minds canconvince us to do.

Speaker 2 (36:12):
It really is because I have to say with my ex-husband
way early in our relationshipwhich I have about red flags.

Speaker 1 (36:21):
What are those?

Speaker 2 (36:23):
He had gotten addicted to meth and we broke up
and he went to rehab and thenhe was quote unquote better,
because I didn't understandaddiction the way that.

Speaker 1 (36:33):
I do now yeah.

Speaker 2 (36:34):
And I know that that is not Not how that works.
Going to rehab does not equalbetter no, and Addiction is
still addiction.
It absolutely is.
And so in that process Ilearned a lot about being
codependent.
And da da, da, da.
So I was like I am not going tobe codependent.
And da, da, da, da.
So I was like I am not going tobe codependent.
I will not because I would nottry to manage or control his

(36:57):
drinking period and a storywouldn't do it.
Um, but I would try to beperfect and inspire him into not
drinking.
Yeah, which was so insidious itwas so insidious but it's
different.

Speaker 1 (37:13):
Itidious, but it's different, it is Right.

Speaker 2 (37:14):
Yeah, I thought it was.
I thought I had greatboundaries.

Speaker 1 (37:16):
Yeah, could you sense my sarcasm there?
I hope so, yeah.

Speaker 2 (37:20):
And the thing is, when you are partnered with an
addict who is using, you cannotbe well and healthy with that
person.
You cannot, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (37:33):
Absolutely not.
You just can't.
It does not matter any.
It doesn't matter any choicesthat you make or any positive
environment that you'reinvolving them in or surrounding
them by, it does not change.

Speaker 2 (37:45):
Nope, even if you are also an addict, it still does
not change.
No, it does not.
It is not an environmentconducive to wellness.

Speaker 1 (37:55):
So I will just say that?

Speaker 2 (37:57):
Yep, yeah, yeah.
So do eating disorders matterif you're not at risk of
starvation?

Speaker 1 (38:10):
Yeah, yes, they do.

Speaker 2 (38:21):
So I have a person that I know, who is a man, who
is overweight, who is alwaystrying to lose weight, and he
will engage in behaviors andattitudes that I find really
fucking toxic, just like, hi,that's eating disorder.
Hello, that's an eatingdisorder thing you know over and
over.
And he's like, oh, ha ha ha,let's worry about that when I'm

(38:43):
too skinny.
So this idea is that if you'renot starving, that it's okay to
have toxic belief systems aboutyour own body and your value.

Speaker 1 (38:59):
Ouch Right yeah.

Speaker 2 (39:03):
That's mm-hmm.
It still harms you.
Yeah, it is.

Speaker 1 (39:08):
Yeah, I wonder if that is like the difference
between like like eatingdisorders with females and
eating disorders with males.
Like, is it not true, becauseI'm male.

Speaker 2 (39:22):
I do think that they think that that's yeah, that
sounds about right.
To be like me, just throwingsome shit out there.
I do think that men think theyare not susceptible to eating
disorders because they are men.
Yeah, some shit out there.
I do think that men think theyare not susceptible to eating
disorders because they are menyeah, and it is not true.

(39:42):
And I don't think peopleunderstand the harm of eating
disorders is not just theafter-school special where
somebody gets too skinny andthey grow all the little hair
that keeps their body warm andthey have to sit on a pillow
because their their tailbonehurts and like that.
Stuff is sick and it's weirdand it's hard to watch and we
see it, but it doesn't have togo to that extreme measure

(40:03):
doesn't it's all about yourrelationship with yourself and
your relationship with food?
yeah, and if that is trappingyour existence in this toxic
fucking cycle, you are stillsuffering and it is not harmless
.
Yep, yeah, yeah.
So that's me on my soapbox.

Speaker 1 (40:25):
I am right there next to you, yeah.

Speaker 2 (40:31):
Yeah, yeah.
So so basically I was trying tofigure out, as a person who's
worked so hard to notparticipate in diet culture, as
I personally have the scale said, who was constantly counting my
calories and my carbs and allthis stuff, and and my sense of

(40:58):
goodness or badness, I guess, isthe simplest way that I can say
it, yeah, was based on thosenumbers and where I was on that,
on that kind of chart in mybrain, um, and so I was like
where the fuck is this shitcoming from?
Like I don't want, I don'tbelieve in diet culture.
I'm so above this what?
And then I was like hi, howabout your family?

(41:19):
Yeah, how about the family thatyou were raised in?

Speaker 1 (41:24):
Yeah, yeah, I mean it has to stem from somewhere.
It does.

Speaker 2 (41:28):
Cause we don't just get these ideas.
These are the most unnatural ofideas.
Quite frankly, the most naturalidea would be to nurture and
care for your body so that itwas the most healthy, thriving
thing it could be.
So clearly there's interferencefrom nurture when we come into
talking about diet, culturestuff.

(41:48):
So for me, my mom was always onsome kind of a diet.
She absolutely hated her body.
It was very clear.
And the thing that was clear tome as from very young I think
five or six you know, I havethese little like video snippets

(42:12):
in my brain of memories but wasthat my mom's size was
something that was wrong withher and it was something that
she needed to fix.

Speaker 1 (42:26):
And just that.
That's a really young age tohave that thought.
Yeah, really young age.

Speaker 2 (42:31):
Yeah, to have that thought, yeah, really young age,
yeah, and to be like, okay, sobecause she got some new diet
that they sent sent in the mail.
It was like a bunch of stupidbars and milkshakes or whatever
in a box and I was asking my dadabout it and he's like you know
, this is what mom's gonna eat.
And I'm like, why doesn't momeat the same things that we eat?
It's like, well, because she'strying to lose weight.

(42:52):
And I'm like, why?

Speaker 1 (42:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (42:55):
Like well, because she wants to lose weight.
And I just remember being likehuh.

Speaker 1 (43:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (43:02):
And like it was.
It was Very confusing, but fromthat point forward it was clear
to me that my mom's size was aproblem and that it was her job
to make it a priority.
To be working on changing hersize so that was just that to me

(43:24):
is like kind of profoundly sad.
Yeah, can I ask?

Speaker 1 (43:28):
like, like, what number are you of?
Like, are you the youngest?
Yeah, and how many children didshe have?
She had three kids, three kids.

Speaker 2 (43:38):
Okay, yeah, so there's three of us and we span
out five years, okay.

Speaker 1 (43:43):
So I mean three kids.
Can I mean?
One kid can do damage on yourbody.
And three kids can definitely dodamage on your body and three
kids can definitely do damage onyour body and the the the
beauty of producing children andbringing them to your into the
world.
Like it, there are scars toshow for that, and like that

(44:03):
hurts me alone.
Like just I don't have anychildren just to make that
preference.
But like I respect women and Ilove their bodies even more
knowing that they have hadchildren, they're bearing that
scar and that love on theirbodies and so it saddens me when
they're trying to reverse that.

(44:25):
It's a miracle of a woman'sbody.
It's not mourning that pre, thatnubile body.

Speaker 2 (44:35):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yep, she had three kids.
She had what she called it wasa gut, so it's like a belly um,
and she hated that part of herbody so much that like it was
almost like it was somethingseparate from her.
You know, and when she wouldtry on clothes at like, we go to

(45:01):
JCPenney's or what was Macy'sback in the day, it was the Bon
Marche.

Speaker 1 (45:05):
Bon Marche yeah.

Speaker 2 (45:06):
Yeah, and I would go shopping with my mom and if the
clothes didn't fit or she didn'tlike the way she looked, she
would punch herself in thestomach and grit her teeth and
say mean things to herself atthe same time.
Um, how old were you then?

Speaker 1 (45:22):
uh, probably nine or ten and dressing rooms are
fucking small, right, fuckingsmall.

Speaker 2 (45:30):
So you're like in and honestly it's violence.
Yeah, and I don't have all Ithis is I have.
No, I have all compassion formy mother.
Yeah, you know, and that'sviolence, it is you're
suscepting your child toviolence?

Speaker 1 (45:47):
Yes, at that point.

Speaker 2 (45:48):
Absolutely, and it was scary and it was so fucking
sad.
Yeah, it was so sad, yeah.
And I remember I saw this TVshow.
I can't remember what it wascalled, but it was one of those
where they give people makeovers.

Speaker 1 (46:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (46:06):
And the lady who was on it was like the stylist she
would tell people when thingsdidn't fit.
She'd be like it's not you, it'sthe clothes, and she explained
her argument, which was reallyrational, because she talked
about how every brand has fitmodels and every brand is cut
differently and like it reallytruly is the clothes there's

(46:26):
nothing wrong with you like themost beautiful women in the
world, look weird in certainclothes from certain brands
because it's not for their body,and I learned to try to say
this to my mom and like sootheher through the shopping
experience and it was reallyhelpful and it's very sad that.

(46:46):
I had to do that At a young age.
Yeah, To be like it's not you,it's the clothes.
And I'd go out and get theother sizes for her and remind
her that it didn't matter whatthe tag said.
All that mattered was whethershe felt good in it.
But it was this experience ofthis like the person I loved

(47:06):
more than anything in the entireworld as a child your mother,
yeah right, hurting herself andrejecting herself like that was
just so hard to see.
Yeah, and it made a big impacton me.
Um, yeah, she wouldn't like sowe would go on family vacations.

(47:32):
She wouldn't go in the swimmingpool with us because she said
she didn't feel like she shouldwear a swimsuit because she was
too fat.
Um, and then this is the most,probably the most disturbing she
used to have like a long-termjoke that she was going to use a
sharp knife to cut her stomachoff and call 911 with the other

(47:54):
hand so that she just wouldn'thave her gut anymore, but she
wouldn't die.
And this wasn't like somethingshe said once.
This was something she saidmany times and she went into
detail about how she thoughtthat she could really do it and
it was fucking horrifying.
Yeah, holy fuck, yeah, yeah yeah, and I think that's the extent

(48:22):
to which she was suffering underself-hatred.
Yeah, from the system that welive in.

Speaker 1 (48:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (48:28):
Was that that felt like a good choice.
So that when I say this is kindof where I was coming from,
it's probably not surprisingthat when I started to do any
kind of a diet, I suddenly endedup in this crazy, crazy, psycho
diet zone.
Right, how about you?

(48:48):
Do you have family?

Speaker 1 (48:52):
Not directly.
So my mom was always relativelythin.
She had four kids and had thatlittle pooch, but was always
smaller in size with her frame.
But my best friend growing up,my childhood best friend I
probably met her later inelementary school.

(49:12):
I don't know how old you arethen, but she was a bigger girl
and I've always been like,growing up I was always like
really small, like couldn't gainweight, but it wasn't like we
were trying to get me to gainweight, I just was a smaller
framed child.
But she was a heavier set andso was her sister.

(49:35):
But her mom was always sofocused on their size and I
watched that, um they, sheforced them to go on the
treadmill every day for acertain amount of time.
She bought like shitty food,like soda and candy, but it was
all sugar-free, and so they wereallowed to eat all of that.

(49:56):
But my mom wouldn't buy any ofthat, and so I was.
I was very confused on likewell, how come they can have it,
but it's sugar-free?
And then their mom is tellingthem that it's okay with them,
but like I'm not seeing likehealthy choices, like I was so
confused at that time.
But one thing that stuck in myhead and really fucked me up

(50:18):
with boob size.
Was that your stomach needed toalways stick out further than
your boobs, or the opposite?
No, yeah sorry, your boobsneeded to stick out further than
your stomach always, and I wasa flat chested kid for a long
ass time, and so I wasconstantly so worried.

(50:39):
Like you know, when you eat andyour stomach would expand, I'd
be like, oh shit, oh no.
And so I was so worried about it, and I mean there was other
teasing about the size of myboobs growing up, and so
eventually I did get a boob joband but that stuck with me, um,
and and it still sticks with me,like I think about that
constantly, like your stomachcannot stick out further than

(51:01):
your boobs, and that's I.
I don't know why it sticks withme, but it's so fucked up.
And the shitty part is is bothof her daughters at that age,
when she was saying that shit,their stomach stuck further out,
oh no, and it's like nowreminding me of it or like
hearing me say that and, lookingback, it's just like I.

(51:23):
I would love to take a momentto like sit down and talk to
them, but I also don't want tolike that's so, so sad, but like
they grew up with that.
But that same best friend,because I was so little in
middle school, made this rumorthat I was bulimic and I just
hit the mic um that I wasbulimic and I was like nope, I

(51:45):
like my food, I'm not bulimic.
I swear like follow me to thebathroom, I'm not throwing out
my food um, but yeah, just notdirectly with my own family, but
like living closely withanother family as a best friend.
I saw that and and did live it.
I was terrified of gainingweight watching that family,

(52:06):
yeah, yeah yeah, it's, it's,it's, it's kind of everywhere.

Speaker 2 (52:12):
It's very ubiquitous, I think.
So A big impact for me was thatmy older sister's best friend
in high school had an eatingdisorder.
She was anorexic and bulimicand it was to the level that she
was hospitalized multiple times.
She was in and out of hospitalsand she was also a very popular

(52:38):
and beautiful girl, was areally good singer Really, you
know, and so some of herbehaviors became sort of
idolized.
So some of her behaviors becamesort of idolized and then, with
my sister being good friendswith her, when they became close
, she started to develop weirdeating issues and weird body

(52:59):
image issues and that was sad.
Same time it came with thiswarning for me, because I saw
this person whose eatingdisorders were so severe that
she she was scary looking likeshe would get like when people
are way too thin, they get this.
They grow this really fine longhair all over their body

(53:22):
because their body can'tinsulate because it doesn't have
enough fat, yeah, and it's kindof like.
It's like the hair you imagineon a spider.
Yeah, it looks like that, yeah,and it's unattractive and it's
scary and it's weird.
And so I had this like starkreminder that this was a serious

(53:42):
thing.
But at the same time, my sister, who I idolized more than
anyone in the world, was kind ofmimicking some of the behaviors
of this person, and so I waslike, well, maybe I should,
maybe I should starve myself,maybe that's what you're
supposed to do.
So I went through a phase of Iwas trying to eat less than 500

(54:04):
calories a day, yeah, and thatwas, I think, my sophomore year
in high school, and it was ashort phase, but it was a phase.
And then, in the midst of thisphase, I was in health class and
they were like, oh, we havethis project where you're going
to document every single thingyou eat and put it in a in a
sheet, and then we're going toanalyze it and see if you're

(54:25):
healthy or not.
And I was like, oh my God, andso that made it worse, like that
made me want to eat less.
Oh God, yeah, yeah.
So I did that project and Iturned it in and I got called
into the counselor's office.

Speaker 1 (54:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (54:39):
And I was like what the fuck?
And they're like well, we sawDid I eat too much.
Yeah, they're like we saw yourdiet log and you're not eating
enough food and we're concernedthat you have an eating disorder
.

Speaker 1 (54:53):
And.

Speaker 2 (54:54):
I was just like no, I don't, I'm fine, I just didn't
put everything in there.
It's, you know, everything'sgood and they're like, are you
sure?
And I was like, yeah, and theywere really nice and good on
them, like honestly, yeah, goodon them.
Like, honestly, yeah, good onthem for doing something, but

(55:15):
and actually it did make me belike I don't want to do that
because I was like embarrassed Ididn't.
You know, I don't want to becalled out like that or like I'm
watched like that, so, but yeah, so I mean this.
These are the ways that dietculture affects us, because it
spreads like a spider web.
It's not just coming fromHollywood, it's not just coming
from the fashion world.

(55:38):
It's coming laterally fromevery direction, from people in
your life.
And it's so dangerous and youhave to be so careful what you
surround yourself with so yeah,yeah, that's, yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:52):
I heard a comment from somebody super close to me
about somebody else, um, andthey were talking about how much
weight they've gained.
Um, and they were talking abouttheir daughter, about how much

(56:13):
weight they've they've gainedand teasing them about it.
And I'm like, fuck, you do notfucking do that.
Oh, my like, why would you saythat to your daughter?
And they were like, oh, uh,well, but she did gain a bunch
of weight and but she says she'seating healthy.
And I'm like but you don't saythat.

(56:34):
Like period, you don't commenton anybody's weight, whether
it's like no, what are you doing?
And they had to give him alittle like that's not okay, you
can't do that that's not okay,you can't do that.

Speaker 2 (56:53):
I think that's one of the things, one of the biggest
behaviors that we all people,all people, especially women,
can do, that can be helpfulabout this stuff is not
commenting on people's weight inthe sense of connecting
thinness, no, with positivity,yeah.
So to say, oh, you look great,you look like you've lost weight

(57:17):
, like no, not good.

Speaker 1 (57:20):
How about?

Speaker 2 (57:21):
like that dress looks really great on you, yeah yep,
just anything relating to weightat all.

Speaker 1 (57:28):
Just leave it off the fucking table.

Speaker 2 (57:31):
Leave it off.

Speaker 1 (57:31):
It's so complicated and it's so toxic for so many of
us that Unless it's like youknow the person's been lifting
and be like oh my God, your assis juicy.
Right, like that's wrong.
Yeah, like, look at those.
Like that is it.
Leave it at that, yeah.

Speaker 2 (57:51):
Yeah, but this whole thing of assuming that smaller
is good is problematic in somany ways, and I think I would
just really encourage people ifyou see that somebody is smaller
, don't compliment them on theirsize.
No, if you want to give acompliment, find something else

(58:12):
to say yeah, yeah, um.
So I will say I know that, likeI was saying, a lot of people
are flippant about eatingdisorders, but I had a friend in
high school who died fromanorexia.
She died, she fucking died inher sleep because her heart, her

(58:35):
body ate her heart.
Wow, holy fuck, her body ateher heart.
She was like 16 or 17 years oldand she had been struggling with
eating disorders and they hadbeen.
She'd been in and out oftreatment and one night in her
sleep, her body just consumedtoo much of her heart.

(58:57):
She was dead.
She's dead.
She's fucking dead.

Speaker 1 (59:03):
Yeah, wow.

Speaker 2 (59:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (59:07):
That's, that's the reality of it.
That's so sad and so young, soyoung and that's doing that you

(59:29):
can be doing as parents, versuslike just leaving it, putting
them in treatment facilities,like checking in on them and
like how do you, like I said Idon't have kids- I don't know

(59:53):
how much control over their life.

Speaker 2 (59:55):
So, when there's a lot of instability, and that
probably comes from the parentsyeah, which typically is
parental- instability, yeah.
It's often divorce or mentalhealth issues with the parents,
and people will come to theconclusion that they want to
control whatever they cancontrol.
Yeah, and for some of them,that will become food.

(01:00:16):
Yeah, and so is there somethingthey can do?
Yes, they can become agrounding force in the life of
their children instead of atornado.
Yeah, and granted, that mightnot solve the problem, but it
certainly would help, mm-hmm.

Speaker 1 (01:00:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:00:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:38):
That's um.
It's really heartbreaking,really heartbreaking.

Speaker 2 (01:00:46):
It is really heartbreaking and I, I don't
know, I, I just I know, becauseI knew, I knew them, I knew the
family and I she was in my werode the bus to school together
every day for our wholechildhood and, um, her dad is
the one that found her, I don'tknow.

(01:01:09):
I just I think about what thatmust have been like for him and
her family.
And anyways, so may she rest inpeace and hopefully in this
moment her legacy can be forpeople to take it fucking
seriously.
I agree, I kind of want to talkabout All right, so we're just
going to share some war stories,ok, ok, yeah, again, we are not

(01:01:35):
at all promoting or glamorizingthis shit.
We're just trying to talk aboutit because I think a lot of you
will be like oh yeah, I knowsomeone who was like that.
Oh yeah, I understand that, I'veseen that where I did that, and
understand that the biggestthing is you're not alone yeah,
like almost all of us are goingthrough this and you can connect

(01:01:56):
with other people and share andbond over that and hopefully in
a healthy way.
Yeah, um, but I think, uh, Ihad a friend in high school who
was one of my best friends, whowas definitely anorexic Another
one White, upper middle class,whatever, they're all over the

(01:02:19):
place and she was one of mychurch friends and I remember
sitting next to her at churchevery Sunday and her breath was
so bad because when you'restarving yourself.
You get this horrible breath.
Yeah, Horrible.
And she would always have gumand she was always trying to
cover it up with gum and I'd belike, like it's not, you're not

(01:02:43):
cutting it, it's not cutting it.
I still still really, yeah,still really really.

Speaker 1 (01:02:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:02:51):
Still really brutal.

Speaker 1 (01:02:53):
Yeah, yikes.

Speaker 2 (01:02:57):
And she felt like she told me that if she ate gum she
wasn't hungry anymore.
So she would eat it to liketrick her body into thinking she
was eating food.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:03:16):
Yep, food, um yeah, yeah, yep.
I know a lot of people that dothat with sodas, but they like
drink their sodas or carbonatedany beverage with the straw.
Oh, because you get more airthrough that and so it fills
your stomach up more.

Speaker 2 (01:03:25):
Yeah, and this is not fucking ideas for you guys,
just these are not tips, no,please do not listen to this.

Speaker 1 (01:03:33):
This is so horrible.
You should eat food, please.
But yeah, you would.
Uh, yeah, that's one way toavoid eating, because your, your
body would think you're fullbecause you're adding all of
this air into your belly oh mygosh so bad, wow bad, wow, yeah.
So in college, I don't know howit started or where it started,

(01:03:57):
but I started getting reallyheavily into working out.
We got a free membership to theY and it was walking distance
from our dorms.
And then I started looking intolike pre-workouts and found
this diet pill.
It was called oxy elite.
It was this.
I called it the purple magicpill.

(01:04:17):
Um, I ended up getting addictedto it.
Um, it gave me this like highenergy crack feeling.
It gave me energy throughoutthe day.
I was like sweating and burningoff fat during the day, but I
could, like work out and had theenergy to work out as often as

(01:04:40):
I wanted to.
And it also suppressed my, myappetite and I lost weight like
that.
It was so easy.
But I, I was addicted to itPoint blank, period.
And I told everyone and theirmother about it wasn't diet
related, because I sold thatproduct so well.

(01:05:02):
They were like you should comedo this.
So I did that for a couplemonths and I'm like I don't.
I didn't have the same passionfor that product than I did for

(01:05:22):
this one, but I got so obsessedso I would go to the Y in the
morning to weigh myself.
So obsessed so I would go tothe Y in the morning to weigh
myself and, based off of thatweight, that would decipher how
much I ate for the day and howmuch I needed to work out after
class before going to work.
And I pretty much ate avocadoand lunch turkey meat.

(01:05:44):
That's all I ate, that's all Iallowed myself to eat, and I
would work out two to threehours a day.
Wow, while taking this diet pill, I was beyond pissed off when
they discontinued one of themain ingredients in the pill
because people had died, oh myGod, from it.
Wow, they were taking theoxylate along with, like Red

(01:06:07):
Bulls and any other high energysupplement.
Yeah, and running marathons andtheir heart would.
They would have a heart attack.
So they had to discontinue that, that part of the pill and I
was livid.
I was so fucking pissed thatall of these people were taking
this pill irresponsibly and hadto ruin it for me.

(01:06:29):
But like, looking back at it now, it probably fucking saved my
life.
Yeah, like I was so addicted toit I would buy like a five
month supply at a time to makesure I never ran out.
Yeah, it was so scary Like mysister went on it and she got
super tiny and when she was onit I was like, oh, you're
probably unhealthy, like you'retoo skinny.

(01:06:50):
But never looked at myself inthe mirror.
Yeah, never had that samethought for myself, but like
that is probably my one of thebigger parts of my eating
disorder issues.
I have another one, but that,yeah, I probably would have been

(01:07:13):
one of those people that diedeventually from it if they
didn't discontinue it.
Because I was, so my life waswrapped up around in it?
Yeah, it's so scary, so scary.
Those weight loss pills fuckingsuck.
Don't take them.
They're not worth it.
Just go work out or don't.

Speaker 2 (01:07:32):
Yeah, I remember in high school, my senior year,
there was a group of girls who Iwas friends with.
They weren't like my main group, they were like my side piece
group and they all startedtaking some kind of diet pill.
It was really famous at thetime.
I can't remember what it was,but they all like got really
skinny.
Famous at the time.
I can't remember what it was,but they all like got really

(01:07:52):
skinny.
even people who like didn't lookright being really skinny, like
who like it was, like suddenlytheir head seemed like the wrong
size and shape and like everyyou know things weren't like
like adding up, yeah, um, andthen in the midst of that,
probably like three or fourmonths, and some law came down
that like it might have beensimilar, that like cut out some
ingredient and and like got ridof these whatever was working in

(01:08:13):
these pills, and they were likeso upset yeah, yeah, yeah it's,
it's scary so it is scary and Ithink what's scary for you and
I today is walking on thisrazor's edge of falling back

(01:08:33):
into that and knowing howdangerous and toxic and
unpleasant and unhealthy becauseit's not
joyful?
No, it's not joy, no, and it'snot healthy.
And we know, though, because ofour past, of having times of

(01:08:54):
being really obsessive andreally unhealthy with dieting
and stuff, that we'resusceptible to that, and so I
guess I'm just curious yourthoughts about living this
existence where we're in a worldwhere we're supposed to be
healthy, but what that means canbe so unhealthy for us and I

(01:09:17):
look at it the same way I lookat addiction okay that that is
never something you're not goingto struggle with.

Speaker 1 (01:09:25):
Like you are once an addict, always an addict I was
addicted to, I still am, I'mstill addicted and my brain
still functions around what Ieat.
I don't feel like it ever won't, but I just have to be okay
with, like I can fucking eatthis burger and these fries.

(01:09:45):
Like convincing myself likethis is okay, okay, but you have
to have that conversation withyourself and I, like I wish I
didn't, but I, I know I have to,or I, or I will.
I, I feel like I, I resonatewith somebody that does have an
addiction, an addiction to asubstance.
Yeah, where I I can't not thinkabout it.

(01:10:09):
Yeah, I do try on clothes.
There are clothes that fit medifferently sometimes and not
and it's I still struggle withit.
Yeah, I, I wish I could get ridof it.
I wish, I'm sure there'stherapy that could work, help me
get through it.
But at this time and pointwhere I am in my life, I I view

(01:10:30):
it the same way I do addiction,like it's part of my life and I
just have to positively workmyself through it.
When I think about eating, likeit's okay to eat these things,
it's okay to not weigh yourselfon the scale.
Yeah, it's okay to like Ifucking love bread Eat a whole
fucking loaf of bread, slatheran inch of butter on the top

(01:10:54):
because you like it.
That makes you happy, andreminding yourself, like you
said earlier that, that you dida really interesting perspective
and I relate to that a lot, asyou're saying it.

Speaker 2 (01:11:16):
So I used to smoke cigarettes back when people
smoked cigarettes Now everybodyvapes but back in the day and I
smoked like a pack and a half aday.
Back in a half a day.
I had a cigarette first thing.
When I woke up in my bed,laying in my bed every morning,
I had a cigarette last thingbefore I went to sleep every
night.
And I quit in 2000,.

(01:11:39):
The New Year's of 2003 to 2004.
And I haven't smoked since then, but it was brutal since then.
But it was brutal and I, asyou're saying this, I do think
that there is a lot ofsimilarity, because it's what I
remember about quitting smokingwas that I felt like my best

(01:12:02):
friend had died and there issomething about the dieting
mentality that feels like afriend.

Speaker 1 (01:12:08):
That feels like an engaging friend.

Speaker 2 (01:12:11):
Yeah, and to actually abandon that would would
require grief.
Yeah, yeah, you know, and Ithink that perspective makes a
lot of sense.
And it makes a lot of sense forhow I feel about.
And it makes a lot of sense forhow I feel about dieting.

(01:12:33):
When people bring it up to mecasually.
If somebody says to me oh, I'mnot going to have cake because I
had pancakes this morning, godknows, that's enough carbs for
the week and I'm just likeyou're triggering the fuck out
of this little part of my brainthat wants to kill me.
Yeah, honestly, yeah, w wantsto kill me.
Yeah, honestly, yeah, wants tokill me.

(01:12:54):
And it reminds me, I guess Ithink of like, how, like with
the addiction to nicotine, howthat was like a thing, and so
that's in my past because it waseasier to let go of.
Honestly, it's so much lessprevalent than dieting.
Yeah, and dieting is like themost ubiquitous thing in the
world and no one's saying thatcigarette smoking is good for

(01:13:15):
you, but everybody's saying thatdieting is good for you, even
though we know that it's not.
Yeah, and we know that itcreates like toxic.
You know patterns in our lives.
So, yeah, I think that's areally good point.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean I, ithelps me process it a little bit
better, like it just helps.

Speaker 1 (01:13:29):
And so, yeah, I think that's a really good point.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean ithelps me process it a little bit
better, like it just helpsremind myself that these things
are okay and those things arebad.

Speaker 2 (01:13:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:13:38):
It.
Just it's a good reminder formyself to just like.
It's something I still strugglewith and I like it's one day at
a time.
I need to be honest with myselfabout it and, and like the
other day, I needed a juicyfucking burger yeah, we were
together, yeah, and she was likeI'm ordering some fucking

(01:13:59):
burgers, yeah are you in or not?
yeah, I need this and we're likeall right, fuck it, we're in
yeah, like you just had, likethat's okay and and and not
feeling guilty about it is ahuge step.
It's a huge step, yeah and it'sokay.

Speaker 2 (01:14:16):
Though even here's the thing there's there's the
part where you order it and youfeel horrible, and then there's
a part where you can order itand not feel horrible, and then
all that in between is theprocess.
Yeah, and so it's okay to belike.
I know, when I want a juicyfucking burger, I should be able

(01:14:37):
to order it and not feel bad,and yet I do feel bad.
Yeah, and just breathe throughit, yeah, and it's okay, and
you're going to get there, tothe point where, eventually, you
can order it and not feel badsome of the time.
Yeah, you're going to get thereto the point where, eventually,
you can order it and not feelbad some of the time, yeah, but
the most important thing is youbeing in conscious control, yeah
, of how you treat your body andnot having it become some sort

(01:14:57):
of compulsive, addictivebehavior that harms you.
Yeah so it's mindful and it's.
This is what I want, and it's aprocess and it's okay for it to
be a process.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah,you know what we didn't talk
about.
Ironically, what does dietculture have to do with sex?

(01:15:20):
Whoops, well, oh, this podcastis supposed to be about sex.
I forgot.
Okay, well, this podcast issupposed to be about sex.
I forgot.
Okay, let's just touch on thatbriefly.
I think it's obvious, but youknow what, just in case it's not

(01:15:42):
, diet culture affects ourself-worth and our self-image,
mm-hmm, and those things affectour willingness to be vulnerable
with another person, to putourselves in the situation of
physical, sexual and emotionalvulnerability.
Yep, big time, yeah, go.

(01:16:17):
And this fear, which?
So this is one of the thingsthat we are afraid that a lover
might find our body unattractiveand not, and not want to have
sex with us as, as a woman, I.
This is a familiar fear of mine, even no matter how attractive
I've been at different times inmy life that that is a huge part
of diet culture.
Like, if I have the right body,I won't experience rejection,

(01:16:38):
right, yeah, that if you don'tlike your body, you're less
likely to want to love it.
Like masturbate, initiate sex,initiate sex, initiate pleasure
for your own benefit, yeah,because you're at war with your

(01:17:00):
own body, right, yeah?
So I think it has a lot to dowith sex.
We didn't exactly, no.

Speaker 1 (01:17:12):
Focus on that today.
No, which is okay's okay.
It is, I mean it like if you'reso self-conscious about where
you're at on your body, like howare you supposed to put
yourself in a sexy lingerieoutfit to come on to your
partner?

Speaker 2 (01:17:26):
right, exactly, or even that the position, the
sexual position, that is themost satisfying for you might be
the least attractive.

Speaker 1 (01:17:34):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:17:35):
It might be that like OK, when I do this and this,
like that's how I can makemyself come, but it's also not
hot and I also feel like mybelly shows more when I do this
or that and and so I mightdeprive myself of that because
diet culture?

Speaker 1 (01:17:54):
Yeah, I think it it, it impacts it greatly.

Speaker 2 (01:17:59):
Yeah, it absolutely does.
All right, so I guess now thatwe finally got to the sex, we
can wrap it up here.
Thank you, kim, for coming andtalking with me about diet
culture.
This is hard shit to talk about.
I think people who are bestfucking friends for 20 years
almost never even have thisconversation.

(01:18:21):
So I hope that those of you whoare listening have this
conversation with your bestfriend, talk about it, ask them
questions about how they feelabout their body, about what
they do with dieting.
Are they thinking about it allthe time?
Does it bother them?
Get to know each other, inquire, ask and understand, because I

(01:18:42):
think that you will reallyconnect with people and feel
less alone, and they will feelless alone.

Speaker 1 (01:18:48):
And seek to understand where they're coming
from before you comment tooAbsolutely.

Speaker 2 (01:18:52):
Yeah, yeah, without judgment.
Yeah, because, oh my God, likethere are so many, it's like a
rainbow of reasons and ways thatpeople function in this space
and we all have our owndysfunction.
And you want to approach thesekind of conversations
understanding that there's notright or wrong.

(01:19:14):
We're all different and you justgot to love your person through
it.
Yeah, got to love them throughit, all right.
So thank you everyone forcoming and listening to this
conversation.
Hopefully it was sexy enough.
All right, we'll catch you nextweek.
Thank you for listening to theJuicy Sex Podcast.

(01:19:37):
If you enjoyed this podcast,kindly click like and subscribe.
It really helps us get the wordout and we'll see you next time
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