October 12, 2024 • 29 mins
What drives someone from the bottom of their high school class to the top of the legal field? Daniel, a successful trial lawyer and law firm founder, shares his remarkable journey that began in a modest household with a policeman father and a grocery store working mother. His story is not just about his rise in the legal world, but a testament to the power of perseverance, preparation, and an unyielding desire to help others. Discover how Daniel's commitment to not procrastinating and his dedication to preparation laid the foundation for what would become a highly reputable law firm spanning over four decades.
Balancing a legal career and family life is no small feat, but Daniel reveals the strategies that helped him maintain focus and harmony in both realms. From creative problem-solving in legal practice to strategic defense tactics aimed at gaining an advantage without crossing ethical lines, his insights are invaluable. Listen as Daniel shares real stories, including a clever self-help repossession strategy that highlights the importance of creativity in law. For those eager to learn from a seasoned legal expert, Daniel’s blend of human-centered leadership and innovative thinking provides a wealth of knowledge for both aspiring and practicing lawyers.
https://callahanconsulting.com/about-dan/
https://www.callahan-law.com/about-our-firm/
https://www.callahan-law.com/meet-the-team/daniel-j-callahan/
if you enjoyed the show be sure to check out my info:
https://app.wingcard.io/ROB3SA64
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, hello everybody.
So today is a really good day.
I had a really good chat with.
A few things came up and thenwe went right back into the chat
(00:28):
as if we were already.
So just a little cue for that.
Other than that, feel free tolisten to the end.
Daniel gives a lot of goodadvice, but also like contact
information if you want toactually, you know, contact him
for help for stuff.
(00:48):
All right, here we go.
So you said your dad um waslike worked construction right
oh no, my father was a policemanoh, okay in chicago for 32
years dang.
So he saw a lot during that time, A lot of change.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Yeah, he was there for the 1968 Democratic
Convention when there was a riotin the streets.
My mother worked in a grocerystore putting together party
platters for people and I wentto.
We're not exactly wealthy.
(01:26):
I worked during high school andI graduated from high school
fifth in my class.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
That's impressive.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
From the bottom I was number 168 out of 172.
So I guess you got to say Ididn't really give it my all.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
I was trying to make money working different jobs at
the same time, and I really onlyjust wanted to get through high
school.
I wasn't really thinking aboutthe future thereafter and then,
I worked construction.
Ah, there it is Okay.
Yeah, I used to climb trees forthe city of Elmhurst, uh, with
mckella chainsaw and they got anextra 25 cents to go ahead and
(02:12):
be an idiot and climb up a treeover the chainsaw.
The good news is I didn't hurtmyself and I know, uh, when I
was done chopping down a treeand there's a crew there and I
was wondering, as I'm taking outthis wood and throwing it into
the chipper, what am I doinghere?
You know, this is about threeyears after I graduated from
(02:36):
high school and I looked overand saw my buddy who got me the
job, and I saw him standing nextto his father, so I know why he
was there.
I remembered my mother told meI'd be a good lawyer if I could
just simply apply myself.
So I thought, all right, well,let's try this college thing.
(02:58):
And I went to college and atthat time I thought I was going
against all the real smartpeople, because you know, after
all, in my opinion, my highschool class.
They were doing better than me.
So I worked as if they werejust geniuses.
I was going against.
I went against like I was goingagainst Goliath and I prepared
really hard and I didn't putthings off.
(03:20):
I did everything I could tosucceed and I surprised myself
and I got straight A's.
And I got straight A's rightthrough college.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Nice.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
I wanted to become a lawyer, so I started the Pre-Law
Society at my college, WesternIllinois University, and I also
majored in political sciencebecause somebody told me it
would be a good idea if you wantto be a lawyer.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
And I also double majored in political science
because somebody told me itwould be a good idea if you want
to be a lawyer.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
I also double majored in communications because I
thought I had to learn how tospeak.
I took classes in speech untilthere were no more classes to
take.
Then my professor came up withsome classes we could do
together, which would mean everytwo, two weeks I had to give a
15 minute speech and he wouldcorrect me on my approach and
(04:09):
how I do it and all this.
And I think that was helpfullater in my career when I became
a trial lawyer.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Yeah, I want to say it's definitely the presentation
.
As a lawyer, the communication,the emphasis and the undertones
are extremely important.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Right, I agree, and I learned a lot from him.
I went on to law school at UCDavis and I was on as the editor
of the Law Review, which isprestigious, and graduated in
the top 10%.
I was recruited to go tovarious law firms and I went to
(04:50):
one in Hawaii and they called meup and they said Dan, we want
you to come to Hawaii, spendfive days, we'll put you up in
the Ili Kai, Get you arent-a-car, spend three days
getting to know the firm and twodays just to get to know the
island.
I thought, oh my God, it's ajoke.
So I took the job, obviously,and I was there for a couple of
(05:11):
years, but I really wanted toreturn to California.
So I came back to Orange CountyActually, I think I came back
to it as my first time.
In Orange County I got a jobwith a big firm doing litigation
.
I learned how to in Hawaii andCalifornia, how to do business
(05:32):
litigation, how to learn how topresent cases in court.
I developed because I believewhat drives me and drove me to
be a lawyer was I just wanted todo the right thing for people
and I wanted to help peoplebecause it made me feel good.
That attitude caused me toattract a lot of clients.
(05:57):
So on St Patrick's Day in 1984,I opened up my own law firm.
State in 1984, I opened up myown law firm and that firm is
now 28 attorneys and I formedthat firm over 40 years ago.
(06:18):
We just had our 40-yearanniversary last March.
Congrats, yeah, and I.
My success are preparation,diligence, do everything you can
and don't give up.
Whatever you do, don'tprocrastinate, because if you do
, you don't know if you thinkI'll do it tomorrow or I'll do
(06:39):
it the next day.
You don't know if you're goingto have that kind of time the
next day because something elsemay come in.
So if you're just reallyprepared and you give it your
all, it's surprising the kind ofresults you get.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Yeah.
So what are some of the tricksthat you can recall for
procrastinations that kept youfocused, even though the siren
call of your bed was better?
What were some of the mindsetsor tricks you did to keep
yourself on?
Speaker 2 (07:08):
track.
I wanted to make sure I dideverything.
I kept notes and every time Ihad a thought I would dictate
that thought.
It would be typed up into amemo.
And then all my trial thoughtsI just dictate.
Whenever I have some thoughtfor my trial assignments, I
dictate that to the associatesand then I make sure I'm
(07:36):
following up on every one of mythoughts.
At the beginning of mypreparation for a given case,
some of these thoughts could berather basic and once I got
involved in the case I go well,hell duh.
Yes, I understand that, butit's just.
I just always didn't have thatmuch of a problem making sure I
got the things done.
I'm not a naturalprocrastinator, I'm just not.
(07:57):
So I didn't have to fight thedesire to go out on Tuesday if I
felt I could do something toadvance my case, and so I also.
By the way, bringing businessis a big deal for lawyers,
because you can be a greatlawyer, but if you're under a
rock, who's going to know it?
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Right.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
So what I did?
I got a hold of the OrangeCounty Business Journal and I
asked them if they'd like tohave an article called it's the
Law.
It comes out once a week andthey said that'd be a great idea
.
So I would write an article inthe Orange County Business
Journal every week about somenew case that just came down and
(08:37):
the impact that case would haveon the readers.
What that really did was it gotmy name out there.
People, oh, dan Kelly.
Oh, I see, yeah, dan Kelly.
Oh, and I also.
I put together seminars right.
So I would do one for USC downsouth and I do one for Stanford
(08:58):
up north and I get all these bigshot trial lawyers and they all
want, they all want to show upon a seminar.
They they just want to be thereand so I should invite them.
But I also save a spot formyself on a panel and so all
these guys are really big.
So I guess Kell Callahan's gotto be pretty good too.
So it's just by implication Iwas good.
(09:24):
And then I did have success in anumber of trials.
I hit Farmers Insurance oninsurance bad faith for $57
million.
That was my first big case.
After that I had a three-monthjury trial with a unanimous
(09:47):
verdict A three-month.
It was a $2 million breach ofcontract case that I spun into
breach of contract fraud and twoclaims for economic duress.
I made a complaint in sevenweeks into the trial to add
those two claims.
The jury came back and theygave me my $2 million out of the
breach of contract.
They gave me $300,000 on thefraud, plus a million and a half
(10:11):
imputed and on the third andfourth cause of action that I
had seven weeks in.
I don't remember what thecompensatory damages were, but
they gave me 180 millionimpunitive damages on the third
and 750 million impunitivedamages on the fourth, so a
total of 934 million, which isthe highest Holy cow.
(10:33):
Yeah, that's huge.
I mean, I'd say it wassomething.
Here's a little trick for you.
I believe you should send outpress releases, right?
So the judge announces that hehas a verdict and would you like
we're going to read it today?
I said, your Honor, I'd ratherread that verdict today.
Why don't you let opposingcounsel and myself talk over the
(10:57):
night about settlement?
And since we had a unanimousverdict, we had four people, we
had 16 jurors.
At the last minute, four ofthem identified as alternates
and they couldn't count.
Why don't we let the court callthem so they can come back and
be part of the reading of theverdict and also give us time to
(11:18):
talk about settlement?
In reality, I didn't really wantto talk about settlement.
I wanted to send a pressrelease out to everybody to say
there's going to be a bigverdict in the morning.
The reason I wanted to do thatis because otherwise the press
would get a hold of this verdictat 2.30 in the afternoon,
(11:38):
somebody would throw somethingagain and that would be the
story After that.
It's yesterday's news.
But this way the courtroom waspacked right and then they had
all day to interview me and toprepare a good story.
In fact, both clients arepublicly traded Beckman, coulter
(11:58):
and Flextronics and after theverdict was read, within 15
minutes their stock stoppedtrading.
They froze the stock.
So there's a lot to talk aboutand that way you can get the
story out.
So you have to be able to makesure when you do win you get the
story out.
As I started out.
(12:19):
You can't just be with themunder a rock.
You got to really try andexpress yourself.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Right.
Yeah, it's like an old analogyI heard.
Essentially, you can have thebest service or product, but if
no one knows you, you'll neverhave a customer, kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Josh, that's so right .
If no one knows you, you'llnever have a customer kind of
thing.
Josh, that's so right.
And you know I'm so competitivewith lawyers and there are so
many lawyers now and you have tobe good at what you do and
specialize in whatever you thinkyou're best at.
So I specialized in litigationso I have the highest jury
verdict in Orange County historyat 934.
(12:58):
The highest personal injurysettlement in United States
history at the time of 50million, and the highest
insurance bad faith judgment at57, and the event for Orange
County.
And the highest employment forOrange County, a judgment of $38
(13:20):
million.
So employment, personal injury,business insurance, bad faith
it's just all about being in acourtroom and presenting the
case as a story to the jurors sothe jurors can really put
themselves in your client'sposition and feel what your
(13:40):
client must've felt.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
So yeah, that's, that's a big one.
When I especially when I was Igot summoned a couple like a
year or two ago and I was a bigone and that lawyer at the time
was emphasizing, he's like, yes,we will present the facts and
it's important, but it's trulywhat you need to feel, what the
person went through, kind ofthing.
(14:04):
Now, I was a smart ass.
It was like the father wasspanking the child too hard and
he was reversing his ring so itwas leaving a mark.
So the lawyer's like how do youguys feel about that?
I'm like I was like six and mygrandpa made me pick a switch
off a lemon tree.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Ring would have been nice compared to that.
Yeah, I understand that mymother had a pink bug pedal and
she also had a yarn stick.
That was brilliant.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
So yeah, things happen when you're growing up.
Just adjust right and that'swell.
That's where the, the lawyer,essentially dismissed me,
because he's like he doesn't.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
His expectation of pain is different than like the,
the child or whatever oh, yeah,right kind of thing, that's no
big deal, okay, and he reversedhis rank right, oh my geez, but
um, so what are the?
Speaker 1 (15:06):
some of the?
You told me you were writing alot for your tactics, for um,
memorizing and keeping yourselfon track.
What else did you do to keepyourself focused while you were
growing, because, I'm sure,growing your firm?
There were some growing painsin between.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Oh yeah, definitely.
Like with any firm, there's upsand downs.
Not only that, you want yourfirm to succeed and you want to
give it your best, but you haveto keep in mind many lawyers
also have a family.
Best, but you have to keep inmind many lawyers also have a
(15:44):
family and you have to splityour responsibilities, you know,
and try to remember what'sreally important.
And what's really important isprobably not what you do in
business, it's probably what youdo at home.
But that's hard, especiallywhen you are committed, like I
am, to win.
But that's a challenge.
You just have to tear yourselfaway from the business and do
(16:07):
things for your children andyour wife.
So that's I guess.
I hadn't thought about thatuntil just now, but that is a
real big deal.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Yeah, the work-life balance is extremely important.
It's an analogy, a joke.
I told an old co-worker slashsupervisor.
We may be humans and work likerobots, but we are still just
humans.
We have feelings and stuff likethat.
That was the biggest one.
(16:40):
Like I helped that logisticscompany almost like 300x their
output.
I told them at that time it waspre-covid.
I said, dude, 100 bucks is gamechanging for a wg worker on
minimum wage.
I'm like, can you afford that?
He's like oh yeah, that's liketwo steak dinners.
I'm like I don't know where yougo, that's 250 for a steak
(17:00):
dinner, but I want to try thatplace.
You're paying, though, really.
So he's like, yeah, he's like.
So he took um 500 a week, did awhole like.
I just told him how to gamifyeverything, do 300 x and I said
just treat them like a human,that's it.
They're not robots, they'rehumans.
That's right, that's a goodpoint and that's.
(17:23):
That was just one of those.
Um, I don't know if they'restill doing it, I haven't gone
back, but um, that was thebiggest one.
He told me.
He's like thank you.
He's like I forgot about thatbeing higher up in the the
management tree mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
The only tip I can give young lawyers is to do
everything you can Don't and becreative, that's.
You don't want to just golockstep through the CCP, the
California Code of CivilProcedure.
You have to really thinkoutside of the box, and I can
(18:01):
give you an example or two.
Okay, I represented a small SBA, an SBA lender.
Okay, and the SBA lender hadmade a loan to this company in
Irvine, california, and theywere not making their payments
and the choices were they couldfile a lawsuit and they give
(18:22):
them 30 days to respond, but thefear was they would unload
their warehouse factory and takeeverything south of the border,
and that's something that myclient feared.
So I said OK, well, here's athought.
Why don't we just go ahead anddo a self-help reposition?
Here's a thought why don't wejust go ahead and do a self-help
(18:46):
reposition?
So under the law, you can goahead and just select your cloud
if there's a default, but allthe other side has to do is say
no and then you're stopped.
So what I did?
I drafted a document, put it onlegal science paper, called it
notice of repossession, made itlook like an official document
and then I signed my name to itand I had my signature notarized
(19:06):
yeah, that's my name on it.
And then I went to the urbainpolice department and I got an
officer club.
I said I want somebody to comewith me to make sure there's no
breach of peace when we do thisself-help repossession.
He said I'll come, I'll makesure you don't breach your face,
no problem.
So then I got a truck and aforklift, a flatbed truck and a
(19:28):
forklift, and I also hired avideographer.
This is before.
Everybody had a video on theirphone right.
And so now I put on mythree-piece navy blue pinstripe
suit and we pull up behind thefactory and we come in like a
(19:48):
witch.
It's me and I've got thevideographer on my right and
Officer Clark on my left and Ihand this notice of repossession
to the person and I told him Irepresent the SBA, we're here to
repossess the collateral bondsto it and your president, whose
name I won't share with youright now, your president, he's
going down Now.
(20:08):
If you want to go down with him, that's your choice.
But if you identify thecollateral belongs to the SBA
right now, I will go after you.
He goes, okay, boom, boom.
This that this one.
Meanwhile, other people arelooking from other places in the
factory and I tell the videodirector get that guy, get that
(20:28):
guy.
So he's, we named everybody.
We then loaded up the flatbedtruck and then, unfortunately,
my forklift ran out of gas.
However, they had put anotherforklift.
That was part of the collateral, so I used their forklift to
pick up my forklift.
That was part of the collateral.
So I used their forklift topick up my forklift, put it back
in the truck, got everythingout of there and then we left A
(20:49):
successful repossession.
I got a call from the lawyerfor the factory that afternoon.
They said what, tell me, is ittrue?
All they had to do was say no.
I said, yeah, pretty muchCongratulations on your sting,
(21:10):
but that's not in the recordbook.
That's not something you see inthe CCP, that's just trying to
be creative definitely for howyou look at things.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
The creativity is extremely important for that
exact situation.
There was a lot on the on theline if he didn't, if he knew
and said no nothing right, right.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
But we showed up with so much force, with a truck
with, you know, flat bed, allthe equipment, police officer
and, of course, my three-piecethat's exactly what did it right
there, so that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
That's cool.
Is there anything in particularwe were talking about earlier
that you're working on trying toget known within your firm or
for others to know about too?
Speaker 2 (21:59):
Yes, and thank you for mentioning that.
What I'm doing right now I have.
Callahan Blaine is the law firmthat I formed.
It's very successful in SantaAna, california, but I am now
running Callahan ConsultingGroup that provides two services
.
Remember how I said I like tohelp people?
(22:21):
Mm-hmm, two services.
Remember how I said I like tohelp people.
So what I do?
If attorneys usually youngerattorneys, somebody who's under
10 years experience they needadvice on trial tactics, trial
strategies and whatnot, Iprovide that advice and I also
when there's larger law firms.
They don't usually call veryoften.
(22:43):
Usually it's a smaller law firm, because if it's a larger law
firm they have their owninternal people they can go to
for advice and support, ratherthan some guy they don't know.
Although I may have a goodtrack history, still they don't
know me.
So I do that.
And then the other thing theChellian Consulting Group does
(23:03):
is it works with clients,clients that need a lawyer.
Let's say they need a lawyer, abankruptcy lawyer in Detroit,
right?
So I will look around for who Iconsider to be the best lawyer
in that given specialty in thatcommunity.
I will then interview two,maybe three, usually just two
(23:27):
and then I will arrange for theclient, with my assistants, to
interview the lawyers and letthe client go ahead and make the
decision as to who he or shemay be most comfortable with
with, and then, after they havedecided to be retained by an law
firm, then I stick around andif there's ever any issue that
(23:50):
needs to be discussed, then I'mavailable to intercede if needed
.
For the most part, though, thelaw firm and the client hit it
off well.
There's rarely that much for meto do.
If some issue comes up, call me, I'm back in right.
So so I I advise uh clients umhow to pick a lawyer and help
(24:14):
them with that, and I helpattorneys um uh figuring out
trial strategies and thinkingoutside the box.
Bottom line is you really gotto know the basics first before
you think outside the box.
You got to know the inside ofthe box too, right?
Speaker 1 (24:38):
You don't want to make up your own rules and it's
all wrong, and you're like uh-oh.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Yeah Well, this may be too deep in the weeds for you
right now, but I'll give you anexample.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Let's say that you're a defendant, you're being sued
by somebody and you want yourinsurance company to pay the
cost of your defense.
But the complaint allegedagainst you doesn't have any
theories that would be covered,so there is no defense available
.
So what you do?
You send out a request foradmissions.
(25:13):
Usually you send out a requestfor admissions coupled with
interrogatories, interrogatories.
But this way, just send out therequest for admissions and say
please admit, you have notsuffered any damages for A, B, C
or D all of which, by the way,would be covered under the
compliance policy.
Well, no, these lawyers don'twant to admit anything, so I go
(25:35):
deny.
In other words, they areimplicitly saying that they have
suffered damages for thosecovered events.
So then you send theminterrogatories please identify
all the facts to support yourdenial.
In other words, that wouldsupport coverage.
And so now they have to putsomething together.
Once they put somethingtogether under oath, I then send
(25:56):
that to the insurance companyand say see, there is a
possibility that there's a dutyto indemnify, and if there's
that, there's a duty toindemnify.
And if there's a possibility ofa duty to indemnify, there's an
automatic, immediate duty todefend my client right now.
And that changes everything inthe lawsuit, because now I have
Big Brother paying the cost ofmy client's defense, and I did
(26:25):
that by somewhat tricking theother side into giving me an
argument so I could present itto my insurance company.
I hope that wasn't too deep inthe weeds there.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
No, no, no I like how you presented that, because
I've never thought about it thatway where it's legal trickery,
it's kind of the grayish area,but more above board, where you
essentially because, like yousaid, the the nature of a lawyer
they're not going to admitanything, right, so you're using
that to your advantage, kind ofthing correct exactly so.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
There's that.
There's so many other littletricks along the way that after
40, some years I I have a basketfull of little odds events I
can use, of a basket full oflittle events I can use.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
That's amazing, that's really cool.
I'm still thinking about that,the whole tricking lawyer
legally to say something.
Is there anything else inparticular where people could go
to contact you or just?
Speaker 2 (27:20):
reach out.
Well, let me tell you I cangive you my cell phone number
and I'm not afraid to give thatout, because if somebody calls
me and I don't recognize thenumber, I let it go to voicemail
.
And if somebody leaves me avoicemail I go oh okay, and I
climb it.
If it's spam, they don't leavea message.
So if somebody wanted to get ahold of me, my cell phone number
(27:44):
is 949-584-4434.
And also, if they want to lookme up, it's
kellyandconsultinggroupcom.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
I'll be sure to link your consulting group in the
description for everyone.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Wonderful.
It's been my pleasure chattingwith you, an absolute honor and
pleasure too here.
Thank you, thank you.
Hello, hello everybody.
So today is a really good day.
I had a really good chat with.
A few things came up and thenwe went right back into the chat
(00:28):
as if we were already.
So just a little cue for that.
Other than that, feel free tolisten to the end.
Daniel gives a lot of goodadvice, but also like contact
information if you want toactually, you know, contact him
for help for stuff.
(00:48):
All right, here we go.
So you said your dad um waslike worked construction right
oh no, my father was a policemanoh, okay in chicago for 32
years dang.
So he saw a lot during that time, A lot of change.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Yeah, he was there for the 1968 Democratic
Convention when there was a riotin the streets.
My mother worked in a grocerystore putting together party
platters for people and I wentto.
We're not exactly wealthy.
(01:26):
I worked during high school andI graduated from high school
fifth in my class.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
That's impressive.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
From the bottom I was number 168 out of 172.
So I guess you got to say Ididn't really give it my all.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
I was trying to make money working different jobs at
the same time, and I really onlyjust wanted to get through high
school.
I wasn't really thinking aboutthe future thereafter and then,
I worked construction.
Ah, there it is Okay.
Yeah, I used to climb trees forthe city of Elmhurst, uh, with
mckella chainsaw and they got anextra 25 cents to go ahead and
(02:12):
be an idiot and climb up a treeover the chainsaw.
The good news is I didn't hurtmyself and I know, uh, when I
was done chopping down a treeand there's a crew there and I
was wondering, as I'm taking outthis wood and throwing it into
the chipper, what am I doinghere?
You know, this is about threeyears after I graduated from
(02:36):
high school and I looked overand saw my buddy who got me the
job, and I saw him standing nextto his father, so I know why he
was there.
I remembered my mother told meI'd be a good lawyer if I could
just simply apply myself.
So I thought, all right, well,let's try this college thing.
(02:58):
And I went to college and atthat time I thought I was going
against all the real smartpeople, because you know, after
all, in my opinion, my highschool class.
They were doing better than me.
So I worked as if they werejust geniuses.
I was going against.
I went against like I was goingagainst Goliath and I prepared
really hard and I didn't putthings off.
(03:20):
I did everything I could tosucceed and I surprised myself
and I got straight A's.
And I got straight A's rightthrough college.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Nice.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
I wanted to become a lawyer, so I started the Pre-Law
Society at my college, WesternIllinois University, and I also
majored in political sciencebecause somebody told me it
would be a good idea if you wantto be a lawyer.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
And I also double majored in political science
because somebody told me itwould be a good idea if you want
to be a lawyer.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
I also double majored in communications because I
thought I had to learn how tospeak.
I took classes in speech untilthere were no more classes to
take.
Then my professor came up withsome classes we could do
together, which would mean everytwo, two weeks I had to give a
15 minute speech and he wouldcorrect me on my approach and
(04:09):
how I do it and all this.
And I think that was helpfullater in my career when I became
a trial lawyer.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Yeah, I want to say it's definitely the presentation
.
As a lawyer, the communication,the emphasis and the undertones
are extremely important.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Right, I agree, and I learned a lot from him.
I went on to law school at UCDavis and I was on as the editor
of the Law Review, which isprestigious, and graduated in
the top 10%.
I was recruited to go tovarious law firms and I went to
(04:50):
one in Hawaii and they called meup and they said Dan, we want
you to come to Hawaii, spendfive days, we'll put you up in
the Ili Kai, Get you arent-a-car, spend three days
getting to know the firm and twodays just to get to know the
island.
I thought, oh my God, it's ajoke.
So I took the job, obviously,and I was there for a couple of
(05:11):
years, but I really wanted toreturn to California.
So I came back to Orange CountyActually, I think I came back
to it as my first time.
In Orange County I got a jobwith a big firm doing litigation
.
I learned how to in Hawaii andCalifornia, how to do business
(05:32):
litigation, how to learn how topresent cases in court.
I developed because I believewhat drives me and drove me to
be a lawyer was I just wanted todo the right thing for people
and I wanted to help peoplebecause it made me feel good.
That attitude caused me toattract a lot of clients.
(05:57):
So on St Patrick's Day in 1984,I opened up my own law firm.
State in 1984, I opened up myown law firm and that firm is
now 28 attorneys and I formedthat firm over 40 years ago.
(06:18):
We just had our 40-yearanniversary last March.
Congrats, yeah, and I.
My success are preparation,diligence, do everything you can
and don't give up.
Whatever you do, don'tprocrastinate, because if you do
, you don't know if you thinkI'll do it tomorrow or I'll do
(06:39):
it the next day.
You don't know if you're goingto have that kind of time the
next day because something elsemay come in.
So if you're just reallyprepared and you give it your
all, it's surprising the kind ofresults you get.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Yeah.
So what are some of the tricksthat you can recall for
procrastinations that kept youfocused, even though the siren
call of your bed was better?
What were some of the mindsetsor tricks you did to keep
yourself on?
Speaker 2 (07:08):
track.
I wanted to make sure I dideverything.
I kept notes and every time Ihad a thought I would dictate
that thought.
It would be typed up into amemo.
And then all my trial thoughtsI just dictate.
Whenever I have some thoughtfor my trial assignments, I
dictate that to the associatesand then I make sure I'm
(07:36):
following up on every one of mythoughts.
At the beginning of mypreparation for a given case,
some of these thoughts could berather basic and once I got
involved in the case I go well,hell duh.
Yes, I understand that, butit's just.
I just always didn't have thatmuch of a problem making sure I
got the things done.
I'm not a naturalprocrastinator, I'm just not.
(07:57):
So I didn't have to fight thedesire to go out on Tuesday if I
felt I could do something toadvance my case, and so I also.
By the way, bringing businessis a big deal for lawyers,
because you can be a greatlawyer, but if you're under a
rock, who's going to know it?
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Right.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
So what I did?
I got a hold of the OrangeCounty Business Journal and I
asked them if they'd like tohave an article called it's the
Law.
It comes out once a week andthey said that'd be a great idea
.
So I would write an article inthe Orange County Business
Journal every week about somenew case that just came down and
(08:37):
the impact that case would haveon the readers.
What that really did was it gotmy name out there.
People, oh, dan Kelly.
Oh, I see, yeah, dan Kelly.
Oh, and I also.
I put together seminars right.
So I would do one for USC downsouth and I do one for Stanford
(08:58):
up north and I get all these bigshot trial lawyers and they all
want, they all want to show upon a seminar.
They they just want to be thereand so I should invite them.
But I also save a spot formyself on a panel and so all
these guys are really big.
So I guess Kell Callahan's gotto be pretty good too.
So it's just by implication Iwas good.
(09:24):
And then I did have success in anumber of trials.
I hit Farmers Insurance oninsurance bad faith for $57
million.
That was my first big case.
After that I had a three-monthjury trial with a unanimous
(09:47):
verdict A three-month.
It was a $2 million breach ofcontract case that I spun into
breach of contract fraud and twoclaims for economic duress.
I made a complaint in sevenweeks into the trial to add
those two claims.
The jury came back and theygave me my $2 million out of the
breach of contract.
They gave me $300,000 on thefraud, plus a million and a half
(10:11):
imputed and on the third andfourth cause of action that I
had seven weeks in.
I don't remember what thecompensatory damages were, but
they gave me 180 millionimpunitive damages on the third
and 750 million impunitivedamages on the fourth, so a
total of 934 million, which isthe highest Holy cow.
(10:33):
Yeah, that's huge.
I mean, I'd say it wassomething.
Here's a little trick for you.
I believe you should send outpress releases, right?
So the judge announces that hehas a verdict and would you like
we're going to read it today?
I said, your Honor, I'd ratherread that verdict today.
Why don't you let opposingcounsel and myself talk over the
(10:57):
night about settlement?
And since we had a unanimousverdict, we had four people, we
had 16 jurors.
At the last minute, four ofthem identified as alternates
and they couldn't count.
Why don't we let the court callthem so they can come back and
be part of the reading of theverdict and also give us time to
(11:18):
talk about settlement?
In reality, I didn't really wantto talk about settlement.
I wanted to send a pressrelease out to everybody to say
there's going to be a bigverdict in the morning.
The reason I wanted to do thatis because otherwise the press
would get a hold of this verdictat 2.30 in the afternoon,
(11:38):
somebody would throw somethingagain and that would be the
story After that.
It's yesterday's news.
But this way the courtroom waspacked right and then they had
all day to interview me and toprepare a good story.
In fact, both clients arepublicly traded Beckman, coulter
(11:58):
and Flextronics and after theverdict was read, within 15
minutes their stock stoppedtrading.
They froze the stock.
So there's a lot to talk aboutand that way you can get the
story out.
So you have to be able to makesure when you do win you get the
story out.
As I started out.
(12:19):
You can't just be with themunder a rock.
You got to really try andexpress yourself.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Right.
Yeah, it's like an old analogyI heard.
Essentially, you can have thebest service or product, but if
no one knows you, you'll neverhave a customer, kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Josh, that's so right .
If no one knows you, you'llnever have a customer kind of
thing.
Josh, that's so right.
And you know I'm so competitivewith lawyers and there are so
many lawyers now and you have tobe good at what you do and
specialize in whatever you thinkyou're best at.
So I specialized in litigationso I have the highest jury
verdict in Orange County historyat 934.
(12:58):
The highest personal injurysettlement in United States
history at the time of 50million, and the highest
insurance bad faith judgment at57, and the event for Orange
County.
And the highest employment forOrange County, a judgment of $38
(13:20):
million.
So employment, personal injury,business insurance, bad faith
it's just all about being in acourtroom and presenting the
case as a story to the jurors sothe jurors can really put
themselves in your client'sposition and feel what your
(13:40):
client must've felt.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
So yeah, that's, that's a big one.
When I especially when I was Igot summoned a couple like a
year or two ago and I was a bigone and that lawyer at the time
was emphasizing, he's like, yes,we will present the facts and
it's important, but it's trulywhat you need to feel, what the
person went through, kind ofthing.
(14:04):
Now, I was a smart ass.
It was like the father wasspanking the child too hard and
he was reversing his ring so itwas leaving a mark.
So the lawyer's like how do youguys feel about that?
I'm like I was like six and mygrandpa made me pick a switch
off a lemon tree.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Ring would have been nice compared to that.
Yeah, I understand that mymother had a pink bug pedal and
she also had a yarn stick.
That was brilliant.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
So yeah, things happen when you're growing up.
Just adjust right and that'swell.
That's where the, the lawyer,essentially dismissed me,
because he's like he doesn't.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
His expectation of pain is different than like the,
the child or whatever oh, yeah,right kind of thing, that's no
big deal, okay, and he reversedhis rank right, oh my geez, but
um, so what are the?
Speaker 1 (15:06):
some of the?
You told me you were writing alot for your tactics, for um,
memorizing and keeping yourselfon track.
What else did you do to keepyourself focused while you were
growing, because, I'm sure,growing your firm?
There were some growing painsin between.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Oh yeah, definitely.
Like with any firm, there's upsand downs.
Not only that, you want yourfirm to succeed and you want to
give it your best, but you haveto keep in mind many lawyers
also have a family.
Best, but you have to keep inmind many lawyers also have a
(15:44):
family and you have to splityour responsibilities, you know,
and try to remember what'sreally important.
And what's really important isprobably not what you do in
business, it's probably what youdo at home.
But that's hard, especiallywhen you are committed, like I
am, to win.
But that's a challenge.
You just have to tear yourselfaway from the business and do
(16:07):
things for your children andyour wife.
So that's I guess.
I hadn't thought about thatuntil just now, but that is a
real big deal.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Yeah, the work-life balance is extremely important.
It's an analogy, a joke.
I told an old co-worker slashsupervisor.
We may be humans and work likerobots, but we are still just
humans.
We have feelings and stuff likethat.
That was the biggest one.
(16:40):
Like I helped that logisticscompany almost like 300x their
output.
I told them at that time it waspre-covid.
I said, dude, 100 bucks is gamechanging for a wg worker on
minimum wage.
I'm like, can you afford that?
He's like oh yeah, that's liketwo steak dinners.
I'm like I don't know where yougo, that's 250 for a steak
(17:00):
dinner, but I want to try thatplace.
You're paying, though, really.
So he's like, yeah, he's like.
So he took um 500 a week, did awhole like.
I just told him how to gamifyeverything, do 300 x and I said
just treat them like a human,that's it.
They're not robots, they'rehumans.
That's right, that's a goodpoint and that's.
(17:23):
That was just one of those.
Um, I don't know if they'restill doing it, I haven't gone
back, but um, that was thebiggest one.
He told me.
He's like thank you.
He's like I forgot about thatbeing higher up in the the
management tree mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
The only tip I can give young lawyers is to do
everything you can Don't and becreative, that's.
You don't want to just golockstep through the CCP, the
California Code of CivilProcedure.
You have to really thinkoutside of the box, and I can
(18:01):
give you an example or two.
Okay, I represented a small SBA, an SBA lender.
Okay, and the SBA lender hadmade a loan to this company in
Irvine, california, and theywere not making their payments
and the choices were they couldfile a lawsuit and they give
(18:22):
them 30 days to respond, but thefear was they would unload
their warehouse factory and takeeverything south of the border,
and that's something that myclient feared.
So I said OK, well, here's athought.
Why don't we just go ahead anddo a self-help reposition?
Here's a thought why don't wejust go ahead and do a self-help
(18:46):
reposition?
So under the law, you can goahead and just select your cloud
if there's a default, but allthe other side has to do is say
no and then you're stopped.
So what I did?
I drafted a document, put it onlegal science paper, called it
notice of repossession, made itlook like an official document
and then I signed my name to itand I had my signature notarized
(19:06):
yeah, that's my name on it.
And then I went to the urbainpolice department and I got an
officer club.
I said I want somebody to comewith me to make sure there's no
breach of peace when we do thisself-help repossession.
He said I'll come, I'll makesure you don't breach your face,
no problem.
So then I got a truck and aforklift, a flatbed truck and a
(19:28):
forklift, and I also hired avideographer.
This is before.
Everybody had a video on theirphone right.
And so now I put on mythree-piece navy blue pinstripe
suit and we pull up behind thefactory and we come in like a
(19:48):
witch.
It's me and I've got thevideographer on my right and
Officer Clark on my left and Ihand this notice of repossession
to the person and I told him Irepresent the SBA, we're here to
repossess the collateral bondsto it and your president, whose
name I won't share with youright now, your president, he's
going down Now.
(20:08):
If you want to go down with him, that's your choice.
But if you identify thecollateral belongs to the SBA
right now, I will go after you.
He goes, okay, boom, boom.
This that this one.
Meanwhile, other people arelooking from other places in the
factory and I tell the videodirector get that guy, get that
(20:28):
guy.
So he's, we named everybody.
We then loaded up the flatbedtruck and then, unfortunately,
my forklift ran out of gas.
However, they had put anotherforklift.
That was part of the collateral, so I used their forklift to
pick up my forklift.
That was part of the collateral.
So I used their forklift topick up my forklift, put it back
in the truck, got everythingout of there and then we left A
(20:49):
successful repossession.
I got a call from the lawyerfor the factory that afternoon.
They said what, tell me, is ittrue?
All they had to do was say no.
I said, yeah, pretty muchCongratulations on your sting,
(21:10):
but that's not in the recordbook.
That's not something you see inthe CCP, that's just trying to
be creative definitely for howyou look at things.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
The creativity is extremely important for that
exact situation.
There was a lot on the on theline if he didn't, if he knew
and said no nothing right, right.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
But we showed up with so much force, with a truck
with, you know, flat bed, allthe equipment, police officer
and, of course, my three-piecethat's exactly what did it right
there, so that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
That's cool.
Is there anything in particularwe were talking about earlier
that you're working on trying toget known within your firm or
for others to know about too?
Speaker 2 (21:59):
Yes, and thank you for mentioning that.
What I'm doing right now I have.
Callahan Blaine is the law firmthat I formed.
It's very successful in SantaAna, california, but I am now
running Callahan ConsultingGroup that provides two services
.
Remember how I said I like tohelp people?
(22:21):
Mm-hmm, two services.
Remember how I said I like tohelp people.
So what I do?
If attorneys usually youngerattorneys, somebody who's under
10 years experience they needadvice on trial tactics, trial
strategies and whatnot, Iprovide that advice and I also
when there's larger law firms.
They don't usually call veryoften.
(22:43):
Usually it's a smaller law firm, because if it's a larger law
firm they have their owninternal people they can go to
for advice and support, ratherthan some guy they don't know.
Although I may have a goodtrack history, still they don't
know me.
So I do that.
And then the other thing theChellian Consulting Group does
(23:03):
is it works with clients,clients that need a lawyer.
Let's say they need a lawyer, abankruptcy lawyer in Detroit,
right?
So I will look around for who Iconsider to be the best lawyer
in that given specialty in thatcommunity.
I will then interview two,maybe three, usually just two
(23:27):
and then I will arrange for theclient, with my assistants, to
interview the lawyers and letthe client go ahead and make the
decision as to who he or shemay be most comfortable with
with, and then, after they havedecided to be retained by an law
firm, then I stick around andif there's ever any issue that
(23:50):
needs to be discussed, then I'mavailable to intercede if needed
.
For the most part, though, thelaw firm and the client hit it
off well.
There's rarely that much for meto do.
If some issue comes up, call me, I'm back in right.
So so I I advise uh clients umhow to pick a lawyer and help
(24:14):
them with that, and I helpattorneys um uh figuring out
trial strategies and thinkingoutside the box.
Bottom line is you really gotto know the basics first before
you think outside the box.
You got to know the inside ofthe box too, right?
Speaker 1 (24:38):
You don't want to make up your own rules and it's
all wrong, and you're like uh-oh.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Yeah Well, this may be too deep in the weeds for you
right now, but I'll give you anexample.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Let's say that you're a defendant, you're being sued
by somebody and you want yourinsurance company to pay the
cost of your defense.
But the complaint allegedagainst you doesn't have any
theories that would be covered,so there is no defense available
.
So what you do?
You send out a request foradmissions.
(25:13):
Usually you send out a requestfor admissions coupled with
interrogatories, interrogatories.
But this way, just send out therequest for admissions and say
please admit, you have notsuffered any damages for A, B, C
or D all of which, by the way,would be covered under the
compliance policy.
Well, no, these lawyers don'twant to admit anything, so I go
(25:35):
deny.
In other words, they areimplicitly saying that they have
suffered damages for thosecovered events.
So then you send theminterrogatories please identify
all the facts to support yourdenial.
In other words, that wouldsupport coverage.
And so now they have to putsomething together.
Once they put somethingtogether under oath, I then send
(25:56):
that to the insurance companyand say see, there is a
possibility that there's a dutyto indemnify, and if there's
that, there's a duty toindemnify.
And if there's a possibility ofa duty to indemnify, there's an
automatic, immediate duty todefend my client right now.
And that changes everything inthe lawsuit, because now I have
Big Brother paying the cost ofmy client's defense, and I did
(26:25):
that by somewhat tricking theother side into giving me an
argument so I could present itto my insurance company.
I hope that wasn't too deep inthe weeds there.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
No, no, no I like how you presented that, because
I've never thought about it thatway where it's legal trickery,
it's kind of the grayish area,but more above board, where you
essentially because, like yousaid, the the nature of a lawyer
they're not going to admitanything, right, so you're using
that to your advantage, kind ofthing correct exactly so.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
There's that.
There's so many other littletricks along the way that after
40, some years I I have a basketfull of little odds events I
can use, of a basket full oflittle events I can use.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
That's amazing, that's really cool.
I'm still thinking about that,the whole tricking lawyer
legally to say something.
Is there anything else inparticular where people could go
to contact you or just?
Speaker 2 (27:20):
reach out.
Well, let me tell you I cangive you my cell phone number
and I'm not afraid to give thatout, because if somebody calls
me and I don't recognize thenumber, I let it go to voicemail
.
And if somebody leaves me avoicemail I go oh okay, and I
climb it.
If it's spam, they don't leavea message.
So if somebody wanted to get ahold of me, my cell phone number
(27:44):
is 949-584-4434.
And also, if they want to lookme up, it's
kellyandconsultinggroupcom.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
I'll be sure to link your consulting group in the
description for everyone.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Wonderful.
It's been my pleasure chattingwith you, an absolute honor and
pleasure too here.
Thank you, thank you.
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