September 26, 2023 • 65 mins
Sit tight and gear up as we embark on a fascinating journey with Margaret, a former consultant turned coach, who has made it her mission to help overworked small business owners find the elusive balance between work and personal life. From streamlining processes to shifting focus onto strategy, customers, and financials, Margaret’s unique approach is a breath of fresh air. Our conversation takes an amusing turn when we hear about her encounter with a man, a wheelchair, an iguana, and a parrot, amidst her travels in Turkey!
We then switch gears to delve into the powerful impact of gamification on work performance. Be prepared to be awed by the story of a forward-thinking manager who ingeniously introduced a game-like system in their workplace. The results? A significant boost in production and a remarkable decrease in workplace injuries. But that’s not all, we also explore the pivotal role of gathering feedback from customers and employees when making changes in small businesses. This feedback, we learn, can be a secret weapon in solving problems and improving the quality of your business.
As we head towards the final leg of our journey, we tackle the challenges of running a small business and discuss the significance of ethical practices and efficient operations. Ever thought of how to incentivize your employees or create a supportive work environment? We've got you covered! Our enlightening conversation concludes with a focus on recognizing and rewarding employee creativity, the power of delegation, and the role emotional intelligence plays in the workplace. So grab your notebook and get ready to revolutionize your small business approach!
if you enjoyed the show be sure to check out my info:
https://app.wingcard.io/ROB3SA64
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
So hello, hello, hello everybody.
For some reason, my Adobeaudition for this episode will
not let me upload my intro music.
Don't really need it anyways.
Just want to give you a headsup.
Me and Margaret were chattingfor a while and had a great time
and I just finally had to tellher Mike, we could keep chatting
and I forget the record.
So we talked about herconsulting and new coaching and
(00:25):
the quality employee morale.
It's amazing what we went into.
Just a little quick push.
I'm trying to get moresubscribers via podcast feeds
and reviews.
That helps me out when wantingto reach out to awesome people
like Margaret saying hey, I haveX amount of following, this
(00:47):
many reviews, this much of anemail list.
Like, would you come on to giveme like 30 minutes to an hour
of your time?
It makes it easier for me.
Other than that, yes, sosubscribe to the podcast if
you're in for it.
Youtube, I'm working on that.
It seems YouTube does notappreciate Zoom calls, so that's
(01:09):
, I'm trying to figure out howthat works.
Maybe buy a package on Adobefor After Effects and do the
sound wave thing, but either way, yeah.
So here we go, guys, let's getright into it.
(01:33):
Well okay, Don't worry aboutthis, I'll cut out this so it
makes more sense.
I'm just just chatting with you.
So for you said you're theconsulting part, it has changed
and shifted to more like is it abig business, more small
businesses?
(01:53):
That's what I heard.
Was that correct?
Speaker 2 (01:56):
I grew up in large businesses and medium businesses
and not for profits, so I'vebeen in the business world my
whole career.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
And.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
I'm a volunteer in the quality area with the
Malcolm Baldwin National QualityWorld Program, so I'm shifting
now for coaching.
My focus is with overworkingsmall business owners who are
losing track of their family.
(02:29):
They're not getting exercise,they're stressed, you know, over
challenged and helping themfind more time to look.
And part of that is wherelooking at where they want to be
spending their time, wherethey're spending it and helping
them put a plan together toshift.
(02:50):
And also looking within this inthe business, because I look
for ways.
I look for ways to improveprocesses, find areas that can
be included.
So it's both the personal sideand the business side to get
them more time.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
So does that like include automation and
outsourcing to like thePhilippines, or hiring, like
your nephew, for cheap, orsomething like that?
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Absolutely what I've found with small business, with
entrepreneurs.
They have great ideas, they putit to market, they nurture it
and grow it.
And they're used to doingeverything themselves.
So we want to step back andlook at those things that can be
(03:44):
outsourced to contractors orpartners or new buyers or
whatever, that they can focus onwhat's most important in the
business the strategy, thecustomers and the financials
Right.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Okay.
So I'm actually really curiousfor something you mentioned
earlier.
You're focusing on the smallbusiness owner that's busy,
doesn't have time for himself,or specifically exercising.
How do you specifically findthose?
Because that's a very thatgroup's not usually when they're
like that, they're not openminded like we should call
someone for help.
They're just like well, didBucketown harder, good thing.
(04:27):
So how do you find those guysspecifically?
Speaker 2 (04:31):
or go or cows, I work through LinkedIn Okay, other
colleagues who are coaching indifferent parts of different
functions.
For example, I've a consultingpartner who focuses on HR.
(04:51):
So hiring Okay, that's thatyou're really specific.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
That's good.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
People hire people, and so we're working together.
That's a combination ofresearch and offering services,
teaching those kinds of things.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
I like it.
And then also no podcasts, too.
That's a great way to getpeople.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Yes, that's what I've been told, and I'm grateful
that you invited me to join yourpodcast.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Yeah, actually, it's really funny.
I was just telling my father.
I said, yeah, I've been havinga lot of people reach out, but
when I send them my link,there's like 10 people.
Now I'm waiting.
I haven't clicked it.
They're like, oh, this is toogood to be true.
I'm like it's funny.
It's hard for me to get peoplelike you on too, and it's hard
to get on shows.
So it's like that mutual I needpeople and you need to get on,
(05:51):
but no one's talking to eachother.
So just a weird thing I'venoticed recently.
But yeah, no, I'm sorry, I hada little spastic thought there,
but I enjoyed.
I enjoy this like the chat withyou and I like that.
Like I was telling you on theemails before we actually got on
(06:11):
there and I started recording.
It's like this is just like Iinvited you to coffee shop near
your house or office or whereverand just be like tell me about
your life, kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Well, I'm interested in what you're interested in too
, so tell me more about you andyour travels.
You seem to want to.
You seem to enjoy travelingright.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Yes, I do, my biggest one recently.
I went to Italy last year,actually around this time last
year.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
That's a good time it is.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
It was right at the tail end is when it got hot, but
it wasn't like unbearable, itwas just instead of like.
Here in California we caneasily hit 115.
It was more like 90 something,with dry heat wasn't bad at all.
The view was so worth it.
Like I, we went to like Turkeyand there's a cat, a place where
(07:04):
we landed.
There's an actual like castleand everything made like 6000 BC
.
It was gorgeous.
I was just I was climbing inthat castle.
The funny thing is that wasgoing up to it, this one guy in
a wheelchair had a Liz, a bigiguana in a parrot.
He's like you want to take aphoto with the lizard 20, 20 us?
And I'm like, no, I'm good dude, and I held up my wallet.
(07:25):
I'm like I don't have cashanyway, so I can't pay you.
And he looks and he's like, allright, fair enough, I don't
charge you.
You still want a lizard pictureof my case?
I'm like I'm not going to thinkit was.
And then so then I was justwalking around the castle and I
asked him like hey, because hewas handicapped.
(07:47):
I'm like, um, any areas yourecommend to the view?
He?
He pulls out his wheelchair.
He's like dude, this thing isall terrain, it's like an ATV
and he's like and he shows us Call moving.
He's like I can get all overthis place.
He said you want to go in theback?
He's a careful, though.
There is a medieval pit.
He's like if you fall in, noone's going to find you, kind of
(08:08):
thing.
I was like, oh, I want to seethe pit now.
He's like, but if you get upthere and you climb around a
certain rock, the view isamazing.
The tourists don't even know itexists.
So it was.
It was gorgeous.
Like the water was more blue,there was no boats really there
and I just sat there and Iwatched it.
(08:29):
I was like this is amazing.
This is like like that littleslice of heaven on earth kind of
thing.
But tell me about yourself.
So you were giving me a littlebit of your history in the
beforehand.
Tell everyone out, like likewhat you do, what led up to you,
(08:52):
like coaching and just likethat whole backstory.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Okay, well, I enjoy helping people Okay.
As I said, a lot of experiencein business work and in working
with volunteers and people ingeneral, and my passion is
(09:19):
quality and quality okay.
One definition of quality isdoing the right things right.
So doing the right things isyour strategy.
To make sure that you have astrategy and you know that
you're focusing on the thingsthat will help in business.
(09:42):
Doing things right is the partof execute that you are
delivering what your customerswant.
You're building what you wantto build or create for customers
.
So it's two sides of are youdoing the things you really want
(10:03):
to be doing when you say youwant to be doing, and then I
need to win ring what yourcustomers work.
So what I'm trying, skilled in,is looking at processes.
Is a process processes or howyou run your business?
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Right.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
When your processes aren't lined up, you may have
duplicate work, so people aredoing the same things and you
only need one person to do thatthing for their gaps, or you're
not reaching out to yourcustomers to know am I
delivering what you want?
You know, getting feedback fromcustomers is really very
(10:43):
important.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
I'm just curious in your quality and how you assess
things, does also employeemorale come into play, because
if the employee morale is low,the quality goes down, kind of
thing.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
I'm having a little trouble hearing you.
You're asking about dealingwith morale.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Employee morale yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Okay, leadership is responsible for everything.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
And studies have shown that employees behave I'm
sorry.
Employees dig into the workwhen they're appreciated.
So if they don't, if they don'tfeel appreciated, they are more
likely to look somewhere else.
So it's the leader'sresponsibility to understand
(11:40):
what the work is about and learnhow to get feedback from
employees and appreciate them.
Women have a more natural flairfor intuition and reading
people and getting feedback.
(12:00):
So most of the articles I'veread recently about employee
turnover is the men don't get it.
They may have to study thefeminine side of themselves and
not be ashamed of it.
So when I coach leaders, youknow we go through what's.
(12:27):
For example, how do they getfeedback from their employees?
What does their turnover numberlook like?
And compare it to other kindsof businesses that might be
similar, so that they seethere's a number there that's
not as good a number as theywant.
So sometimes people are numberspeople and they're not people
(12:50):
people.
So so you discuss how to becomemore of a people person, and
maybe the HR person can adviseas well.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
It's true, yeah, no.
And then that touches onsomething, because a while ago I
used to do security and reallylong story short is essentially
one of the big bosses was like,hey, why do?
Why is my number suffering atthis place?
I'm like, well, a guy with thelike, the neck tattoo with the
hell gate and the demon spawncoming out, he's like, yeah,
(13:25):
Chuck.
I'm like well, Chuck justliterally wished he could break
his leg and go home unpaid forsix months instead of working
for you for one day.
Oh, I'm like I said he literallywanted to get in a car crash
and not come to you for sixmonths.
I'm like you have a moralproblem, that's why your quality
sucks.
I'm like the word moral hasmore power than what's actually
going on here, kind of thing.
(13:46):
So I just told him, like dude,for humans we love games, even
the non competitive shy lovegames, kind of thing.
And I said, sad to say, for a Wtwo worker on minimum wage 100
bucks, sadly, is really gamechanging.
And I'm like, can you spare 100bucks?
He's like, yeah, I usually buymy steak dinners at 250 and I go
(14:07):
twice a week.
I'm like I don't know where yougo for steak dinner at 250 a
shop, but I want one of those.
So I said can you spare twosteak dinners a week and then
give that cash and I evencompany money and just your cash
to them?
And he's like, oh yeah, withinone month they went from like,
(14:30):
let's say, number six, like200,000 packages a day at a
dollar each to a million a dayat a dollar each.
I literally just said think of agame.
I said you've been in yourivory tower too long saying make
more money for me, kind ofthing and you forgot what it's
(14:50):
like to be the manager in thefield, kind of thing.
I told him.
I said, remember when you werea manager, you would go buy that
expensive taco died guy downthe street with the company car
because you're like I want totry him for myself, but I'm
gonna use company dollars, plus,everyone did good, he's a, he
had the biggest career and he'slike, yeah, I'm like you haven't
done that in like 30 years.
So he did, he did a blowout.
(15:14):
Their production was insane.
It was under a month and a half.
And that's where he put it.
That's what I was asking.
But he even said the quality.
The injuries were low, lower.
There was no more call off.
People are actually begging forsecond shifts because they
wanted to increase their numbersfor the game.
I didn't even tell him how toset up the game, I just said
this is an idea, you should doit, kind of thing.
(15:38):
And that's where I was curiousif that's a similar thing for
you.
And it sounds like, yes, not tothat, not what I did, but it's
similar thing.
Yeah, but I kind of said itwithout saying it, like you said
earlier, like you don'tremember the, the, the feeling
part of your employees becauseyou were in the trenches with
them.
So you're like, oh, john'sreally struggling, I better go
get him like a snake, like a, gobuy him a snack or something
(15:59):
Cause just to give him somecalories.
But also like, oh crap, boss,boss bought me a soda, like I'm
going to work harder today, butyeah, that's like my favorite
one.
And then, like the the finishthat story off, he just walks up
with his personal checkbook andsays so, how much do you want
for that?
And I'm like, uh, well, Ididn't expect to get paid for
(16:22):
this.
He's like pick a number, anynumber.
What do you want?
Like $10,000.
Okay, here you go.
The only reason I mentioned thenumbers earlier.
I only learned that afterwardswhen I told I'm holding the
check.
And I'm like, uh, wow, that wasreally easy.
(16:43):
I'm like I looked up, I gavehim back to him because I'm like
I think my account will notlike the taxes on that.
And he's like am I right?
Well, if you ever want thecheck back, tell me and I'll
give it to you.
But it's one of those.
No, that's the reason I figuredout the number.
I told the lady that what I wascalling the whole time and
(17:05):
she's like, oh yeah, like heessentially made a dollar
package and he was doing 200 a Ka year, a month, a day Sorry, a
day and you got him to amillion a day.
She's like you could easily askfor two million.
You would have given it to you.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
I looked at her and I'm like, okay, might want to go
ask for that check back then.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Sounds like you earned it for sure.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
Well, and but that's, that's kind of been my thing.
So, um, just talking on that,but what else?
So under quality for you?
Um, what else do you look into?
You were talking aboutprocesses and procedures and the
double work.
How do you know where thedouble work is, kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
When you start at the end and what are the defects,
what's broken?
How many returns do you getfrom customers?
How long does it take to dotask number 104?
Right, it has somebody assesshow long it should take?
(18:14):
And do employees A, b and C doit differently?
Because you want to getuniformity.
You want to get the bestprocess, as opposed to three
people doing it three differentways.
You start with the end.
How happy are the customers?
How happy are you with the timeit takes to get from the
(18:40):
beginning of an order or a taskto the end?
You want to gather some dataand then you want to get people
together and discuss it.
What do you see that's workingright here, correctly?
What do you see that's notworking quite so right?
And brainstorm.
(19:01):
You want to get people's ideas,not just one person.
It's getting the brain power ofeverybody that helps solve
problems.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Okay.
So like a metaphorical let'ssay it's an office marketing
agency that calls you.
Is it the constant calls fromthe client saying like hey, you
haven't produced what we said?
Or is it more like who's theideal?
Instead of me speculating,who's your usual client that you
(19:36):
deal with in your coaching andconsulting that you help out
with?
I mean, you don't have to giveme details of the exact company
names, just generally who do youdeal with?
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Well, I do deal with the leadership.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
The leadership like C-Suite.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
The organization Okay and they usually have some
issues.
So it could be too manycustomers calling.
I'm not happy.
It could be not enoughcustomers.
So what can we do to get morecustomers?
What could be waste, whetherit's time or bad products?
(20:15):
It depends if they'remanufacturing or if they're
service Right, and usually thepeople who are closest to the
customers are the ones who feelthe heat, feel the things that
aren't going right as wellMiddle and upper management.
If they don't step out to meetcustomers, spend time with them,
(20:40):
they're not necessarily as intouch with where the oh 100%.
The clients are yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
The biggest one.
I've had a few managersapproach me Just like quick tips
what can we do to improve ourstuff?
I'm like, talk to whoever dealswith the customers the most,
whether it's a returns person.
I said, surprisingly, janitorshave to deal with the customers
a lot and they hear things theyreally shouldn't anyways, talk
to the janitor, talk to thereturn people, and I said,
(21:15):
because a lot of them weregrocery stores I said talk to
your clerks, though, that youcheck them out.
They hear everything.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Oh, they experience everything.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Yes, yes, and I told them just talk with them.
But I said, don't be closedminded.
They say, hey, the customersare being really mean and rude.
That means you need to step up.
Like you said earlier, you'rethe leader, You're responsible
for that kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
I was at the grocery store the other day and there
was only one shepherd and theline was quite long.
And I asked her can we call themanager and see if they can
open up another aisle?
And she said we're shorthanded.
The manager over there isworking the self-checking, so
(22:05):
that particular store must havehad turnover or or just everyone
called off, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Or massive call off too, yes, because I used to work
at a grocery store before mycurrent job and, yeah, call offs
were Some days you'd hearnothing and then some days more
than half the crew just calledoff in one day and I'm like how
do you run a business when halfyour crew can disappear?
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Exactly, One of my clients is a technology person
and he's a PC guru.
He's brilliant Kind of crustythat.
He's brilliant and we discussedyou know you're going to need
some help.
He can be a good teacher andwhat he said was they come in
(22:56):
and they don't want to workevery day.
No, the other thing, they'retelling me how to run my
business.
You know, they're laid off fromMicrosoft or wherever and he
says I don't need people likethat.
I expect people to come to workevery day and be willing to
learn.
And his criteria are coachable.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
I mean willing to learn and then have some basic
background and be comfortablewith technology and start with
yeah, I mean, if you get in anIT or coding or like your
computer repair business, yeah,you need to be well versed.
You don't have to be the bestin technology and coding, but
yeah, that's a big one.
I've noticed too that thesekids, especially with TikTok,
(23:44):
are like I know how the businessis supposed to be ran.
Blah, blah, blah.
You can't do this to me becauseof California code blah, blah,
blah and that's like yeah, butalso California code 30 instead
of 28 overwrites that.
And they're like what?
You're infringing on me, You'reoppressing me, I'm going to sue
you and just walk away.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Oh, my goodness.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
It's crazy, and there's a lot of these.
I call them TikTok lawyers.
Now they're saying hey, if yourlittle boss says this, that's
retaliation and we can get you ashit ton of money.
Just give me a call, and it'slike.
But a lot of them have gottenthe business owners in trouble.
So it is another problem whereit's like these kids have all
(24:26):
this access to these scummylawyers and they don't need to
know how business works.
They make money either way andit's the sad part.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Now I don't know you with that depth here in this
area, but wow.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
You have essentially like I mean in general just a
lawyer giving an order Sorry, ifnot a lawyer, a boss, a manager
saying hey, you're slacking, Ineed you to pick up the speed.
I guess if they repeat thatmore than so many times a day,
that's considered harassment byCalifornia law.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
Well, I certainly wouldn't approach it that way.
Well, right?
Speaker 1 (25:19):
No, but I'm just telling you.
That's also where sometimes thequality of people are getting
scummy or scummy here.
So back to your customer.
I can understand the word.
He's like I only wantexcellence and I'll do it myself
because, yeah, the people arenot the best right now.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
I understand hiring people that are willing to work
and willing to learn and getalong with each other and be
challenging If there's so manyjobs that they can just hop from
one to another you know thatdoesn't give them incentive to
stay at one place and try andmake better.
(25:59):
But again, leadership'sresponsibility to make the
workplace a suitable place, aplace where you can learn and
advance over time and contribute.
So it's always the leader'sfault.
I mean Dr Demain goes back tothat it's all the responsibility
(26:23):
of leadership.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
It really is.
And that's the interesting part.
A lot of managers and businessowners don't want to admit.
They're like no, no, no, no,it's the employees fault because
they don't have their emotionsand checked, kind of thing,
which is not true either.
So hypothetical let's say I'm anew client of yours and I have
(26:51):
a marketing no, let's look overlike a marketing agency.
I have like 40 people under me,but my problem is I'm losing
people to my competitors forpricing, for quality reasons,
because that's where youspecialize.
What would I need to do as yourclient that you would suggest
to me to help retain myemployees?
(27:12):
But also, maybe I'm burning outmy employees too.
We haven't gotten that deep inthe conversation, but foreshadow
, kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
Well, there are probably several elements to
look at If you're burning outyour employees and you're
burning out yourself you don'thave a good strategy.
You might not have a good matchof how complicated the work is
or what your role is the leaderand various roles of the
(27:47):
employees so I would take a lookat what are you trying to
accomplish, what are the skillsyou need, what is your timeline
for delivering what yourcustomers want?
And take a look at what's wrongwith those things.
I mean burning out youremployees.
(28:09):
You're probably going to havethem leave.
You have a turnover problem aswell.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Yeah, probably If people are looking for it out.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
I don't want to work here.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
It doesn't matter, he's paying me 40 bucks an hour.
It's not worth it, kind ofthing.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
That may be, and the leader needs to listen.
I think that's the first skillI coach on to get a sense of
what is really going on.
Again, listen to your customers, listen to your employees,
listen to the informal leadersin your organization, because
(28:47):
everybody has some people whoare leaders among the worker
bees.
You're natural leaders.
Find some people and close yourmouth and listen, take notes
and don't react in a negative.
(29:08):
Well, they shouldn't do that.
Listen for them to trust youthat you're going to take that
information and confidence andtry and learn from it.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
So again back to I'm your client.
Let's say I can't for somereason convince my employees to
come into a meeting and tell methat they think I'm going to
fire them for some reason, thatinviting them to my office is
just they're too scared to.
What are other ways I could getinformation ethically out of my
employees without having to belike get in my office now and
(29:44):
tell me everything becausethat's not going to work.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
So getting an employee satisfaction survey
regularly is a way where theydon't have to give their name
and you can collect informationthat you're looking for and some
statistics.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
So would that, when you say regularly, are you
talking like monthly, quarterly,yearly?
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Once a year in most places okay have enough that you
can learn from it to adjust theprocesses and the recognition.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
All right.
So then I get an employeesurvey and a lot of them are
saying that generally I'm a goodboss, I don't lead them well,
but I'm unrealistic in myexpectations.
The quality that I expectcompared to what they can
produce, the gap's too big.
(30:48):
So how would you help meaddress that to readjust my
standards?
Good thing.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
Okay, we want to spend some time on the
definition of quality in yourOkay.
Quality is different todifferent people, so we usually
measure it by how successful theprocesses are in delivering the
(31:20):
end product or service.
So a gap in expectation needsgood dialogue.
Why?
would the management think it's10 widgets an hour and what
you're producing is threewidgets an hour, right, so what
(31:41):
is the process to build a widget?
And early in management youlearn to do time motion studies.
So how long does it take personA to do a widget, person B to
do a widget, person C, and dothey do it differently?
So who's more successful andhow can we model that behavior
(32:05):
or document the process in thatsense that person A is the most
successful?
So what can we learn fromperson A and then teach person B
and C to do it that way?
Does that make sense?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that makes alot of sense and document and
(32:30):
categorize it with the intentionof continuous improvement.
Part of quality is continuousimprovement.
Keep your eyes open forinnovation, for small
improvements.
Innovation is big improvementsand then small improvements as
well.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Right and they have like the small little things
here or there, like maybe theyinstead of they need, instead of
our ergonomic correct chair,they actually just need a
standing desk kind of thing.
And for Johnny, that's exactlywhat he needs and his product,
his productivity goes throughthe roof, because he's a kind of
said kind of guy.
But maybe, like Lucy, needs theergonomic correct chair and the
(33:15):
fancy keyboard and the rest andall that, and then her
productivity can go up.
Yeah, it's not one size doesnot fit all, right, but there's,
there's general outlines thatyou can fall for each.
Okay, I get that, yeah.
So, yeah, what I was leading towas like the 10, I want to
expect in 10 widgets.
It's three widgets they'reproducing and it's just like the
(33:37):
quality of the products good,I'm not really getting any
returns, the customers are happy, but it's just, my employees
are like boss, we can't, wecan't do it that fast kind of
thing.
So, yeah, that was really good,thank you.
So then the other one would belet's say, my metaphorical
widget shop is that theemployees are wanting more
(34:01):
breaks because it's a really hotmanufacturing environment and
they're they're overheatingconsistently.
But I can't afford constantlygiving breaks.
But I also do run the risk ofthem leaving, because it's just
unrealistic.
If I was your client, whatwould you tell me to do to help
improve the quality of theirlife, but also the productivity
(34:22):
and safety to?
Speaker 2 (34:27):
that's a really good question with the climate change
going on and, speaking in theUnited States, people who are
working outside are fainting andthey're having to drink water
you know where hats and moists,kurchifs and stuff.
(34:53):
It's really up to managementand what the best practices are
from the health care side on howto manage people who work
outside, and I mean people whochange, do roofing, people who
do picking, farming you knowdoing farming and digging and
(35:20):
picking and things like that.
There are best practices thatthe health care organizations do
publish on keeping employeessafe.
And then there's OSHA, as OSHAmay have guidelines as well.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
Right, so yeah, but like most sorry, I keep
interrupting.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
You're going to get sued.
You're going to lose people aswell.
You have to take their safetyinto consideration.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Right, yeah, that's what I was about to say is like
a lot of contracting companiesand roofers.
They don't care about OSHA orbest practices, like just get up
there and if you feel faint, goin the corner, drink some
Gatorade and get back up there,kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
I'm afraid you're right.
I mean, it's really not ethicalto do that.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Right.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
Yeah, most.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
I remember I used to work for it's weird to say it
was under the table.
Under the table, just cash only.
I used to work for an ammoplant.
It was out of a guy's garage,it was wild there, but the best
practices.
He actually said that he's likeyou are safe here, but if
(36:39):
you're looking up rules on howto do ammunition, we don't
follow any of them andtechnically this shop doesn't
exist.
And that I mean I made crazymoney with this dude again.
Obviously he made way more offme, but it was just one of those
.
Yeah, if I tried to like, callwhoever like the government play
(36:59):
, he's not following rule numbertwo or three, kind of thing.
He literally said I could closeup shop, move everything long
before the government gets here.
They won't even know I'm here.
So he's like and that's anotherone where a lot of businesses
are ran like under the table, solike if you say anything to
where you're talking about, younever worked here, kind of thing
(37:21):
.
That's another problem employeesface.
I mean there's always theaboveboard ones and they're
still shady managers that dothat, but that a lot of people
are still paid cash on our tableeven though we're going
cashless, kind of thing.
So in that case let's just say,like I have a contracting
(37:42):
company and I'm not hiringillegal immigrants from Home
Depot, but I'm hiring 20 yearolds in college that don't want
to W to the like.
Hey, I said, pay me 25 an hour.
Can you pay me 20 bucks cash anhour and I'll work for you
however long you need it.
And I'm like cool as thewonderful coach that you are.
(38:03):
What would you tell me in thatsituation to handle my employees
?
Because that does still open mefor a lawsuit, kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
As a certified management consultant, we commit
to ethical behavior, so I couldnot work with someone like that
.
That's just against myprinciples and the ethical
(38:36):
statement that I signed.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
Okay, I would say I'm sorry if I pushed you in the
corner on that one.
I was just curious.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
Yeah, no, I can't deal with that kind of person.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
All right, so that guy out of the picture.
So if any of you are thinkingof a higher rigor, that do that,
buzz off.
But okay, so then let's justsay I'm above board, but again
I'm still paying him aboveminimum wage.
Pretty ethical, totally legal.
But I am not like a slavedriver, but I am in pretty.
(39:15):
It's like hey, boys, it'sgetting hot, like, just beat the
heat, let's go faster, kind ofthing.
So when the heat of the daycomes we can just go sit under
the tree and relax.
But it is intense leading up tothat point.
Is there anything in that youwould recommend so my boys or
gals are not burnt to a crisp,literally and emotionally, kind
(39:39):
of thing.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
Well, I get back to standardize the work.
What is the meantime to do thewidgets and what's unreasonable?
What if?
There's no one set way, though,as much as you can to make it
(40:03):
simple, straightforward, step bystep, documented and tested.
I mean, it's not likesomebody's being unreasonable,
saying go faster, faster, faster, without real data.
You've got to have some data inyour operations to know what's
(40:26):
reasonable and what might not be.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
But what if there's no one set way, like the making
caramel apples?
There's no one set way ofmaking caramel apples, kind of
thing.
I mean, yes, you can alwayshave the automated machines, but
this is just a mom and pop shophand dipping them, hand
breading them, packaging them.
(40:50):
They don't have the machinesand stuff like that.
I mean, I did it once on theside, messed up my hands doing
it, but there was no set way.
They just said hold your spike,either slam it or take a hammer
and hit it, but careful whereyou hit the hammer because the
thing could be off and that's it.
Then they walked away.
I was like, how does this work?
Speaker 2 (41:18):
How does this work?
Speaker 1 (41:21):
So that's more what I was alluding to, where even the
people they're like there's noone way.
Whatever works for you, kind ofthing, as long as it looks
straight, and that's all we want, kind of thing.
So in that case, how would youlike the caramel apple example?
How would you talk to thecaramel apple lady that's paying
everyone?
Speaker 2 (41:42):
You might think about incentives.
Okay, but with the top producer?
I mean, you might rate thepeople from top producer to the
newest person and pay themaccordingly.
So your top producer would makemore money than your brand new
person and you would ask the topproducer to share that
(42:07):
technique that he or she isusing to produce more products
in a time period.
Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (42:18):
No, it does.
That's actually what I had todo to figure it out.
I found the top dog and I waslike, okay, what are you doing?
That's where he.
And then he just told me he'slike dude, it's really simple.
And he actually pulled out thislittle doodad he made.
He's like I'll make you one,it's really easy kind of thing.
And so he's like you just putit in, slam it really hard,
perfect every time.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
You do want your top producers to teach and mentor
others, and that's part of whythey should be paid more.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
Well, he was hard to talk to.
He was like a stereotypical,like high schooler with big
headphones, like even biggerthan mine, so that's where I had
to like and he was the kind ofenergy where, like he's
generally a nice guy, but ifyou're around them and you don't
know him, he's likeintimidating and scary kind of
thing.
So everyone was scared to talkto him.
(43:07):
I'm like you know what?
I'm that guy to ask questions.
I'm just going to ask him, likeI don't want to keep hurting my
hands, what do you keep doing,kind of thing.
He's like oh, man.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
Well a leadership is important to recognize who are
the top producers and ask themand coach them to teach the
others, without beingintimidating.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
Or be like what's your process?
If it's not, if it's unorthodox, can you at least explain the
basics so I could write it down?
Sure.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (43:40):
You know like, yeah, there might be like from going
from step two, you skip three,go to four, you hit three and
you're back to five and odd kindof thing.
That might be a thing.
But what's the steps in, likein order, that you have to do?
Yeah, that makes sense.
Okay, I like it.
Speaker 2 (43:54):
That's what I say is this there's a standard process
and maybe somebody has been ableto skip three and four, three
and five, and that could be aninnovation that may be, the best
process.
So, keep in mind those peoplewho are creative, who do come up
with other ways of doing thingsand then, over time, move that
(44:19):
to be this new standard.
You're always looking to bebetter and use ideas that are
working.
Speaker 1 (44:28):
So in like that case let's say, back to the caramel
apple thing, I have my caramelapple shop and everything, and
let's say I do have my bestproducer telling me stuff.
But then let's say little Jennyfigures out, oh, we can't skip
step three.
Like step three is justcompletely irrelevant and we're
not affecting health code bytelling me that and we have to
(44:50):
prove it.
Should I give her like a bonusor a gift card or what would you
recommend in that case?
Like I generally want to rewardmy employee but I don't want to
give her like 500 bucks Becauseit's like it's okay, it's not
actually 500 bucks, but I wanther to know like you made a
great improvement.
Thank you, kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (45:10):
I've seen teams get together and brainstorm what
they would appreciate.
So, they come up with a set ofincentives, or add a boy, add a
girl.
That's a typical kind of onewith a small amount of money or
(45:31):
a half a day off.
Or bring in ice cream onceevery two weeks, or something
like that.
Tell them to the employees, andwhat would you know?
Bring their choice.
Speaker 1 (45:45):
So essentially, like when you're having all these
strategy meetings with youremployees, it doesn't have to be
blatantly obvious to be likehey, so like hypothetically, if
I want to reward you guys, whatwould you want?
And they'll all just be like oh, I want ice cream, 100 bucks
for gas gas is expensive stufflike that and you just kind of
(46:05):
like take mental notes not likeSanta Claus, okay, sure.
Speaker 2 (46:08):
So, first guess, that's a terrific idea.
Speaker 1 (46:10):
Yeah, guess is going up against it.
Yeah, you want 100 bucks forgas.
Here you go, tinker gas for you.
Speaker 2 (46:16):
So you know, ask them or have them brainstorm, and
then seeing what crazy ideascome along, that really would
cheer them up.
Speaker 1 (46:29):
Nice.
So I know this is not yourspecialty and you don't have to
answer it in any way, but let'ssay, kind of like your client
that's having trouble hiringpeople, he like he can find the
source of people, the computerone, earlier.
How would you, in ahypothetical sense, let's say
I'm in his situation where Ihave this proprietary knowledge
(46:51):
and software and all that, but Idon't, but the people don't
seem to understand it, but Ialso can't get quality people.
So what I'm trying to get to ishow would you recommend I
filter people to find some thequality within them?
Speaker 2 (47:09):
Can you ask that again?
Speaker 1 (47:11):
I know that was a really rambly Sorry.
So essentially what I wasasking is I'm like your computer
client earlier that youmentioned, but I can't find
quality people.
I can find people but they'renot of quality that will stick.
What would be some of yourmethods?
You can tell me, as a client,how to filter different
(47:31):
employees coming on to like findthe quality within them.
Speaker 2 (47:39):
Well, sometimes you have to hire them and see.
You know, talk to them this isthe job, these are the
expectations and watch them workand coach them and see how
they're doing.
They somehow can stay.
If it's an attitude of I knowbetter than you, you know, if
(48:01):
it's an attitude issue, thatperson's not going to work out.
Speaker 1 (48:05):
Right.
Speaker 2 (48:06):
I mean it's two-sided the employee needs to learn and
the boss needs ways to teachand coach and nurture and not be
real hard on them necessarily.
It's that attitude is reallyimportant.
Speaker 1 (48:24):
Would it also be like the emotional intelligence of
the situation to you bet, youbet.
Okay, okay, so then.
So what I was trying to get atis essentially like there can
obviously now there's loadedquestions.
I actually heard this at acoffee shop.
Was really funny.
One of the guys had a great wayto filter people that follow
(48:46):
orders and do what you say kindof thing is.
He says you do your interviewand you have all this different
stuff.
But he said a big one is he'slike I would always leave a book
on the floor right next to thechair where they're coming in
and he's like I would see ifthey pick it up and put it on my
desk it didn't have to be inthe best place just to see if
they'd even pick it up.
Cause he said that means to goabove and beyond without being
(49:09):
told what to do.
I was like that's interesting,okay.
He said no, another one.
He's like it's funny, but he'slike it tells you if people
follow orders, well, is hey, onyour way out, can you write
something on that whiteboard?
And I was like okay, and that'swhere it was like a joke.
(49:32):
I said then I probably write awhole freaking story because you
said write something Like theaction.
He's like no, I wanted the wordsomething.
And I'm like clearly I don'tfollow orders.
Well then, when I looked up,actually I really don't follow
orders.
Speaker 2 (49:46):
Well, Well, I want to pause and use the borders.
The very old fashioned type ofmanagement was like the military
, where the upper officers giveorders and filter down.
The more modern strategy ofmanagement is not ordering.
Speaker 1 (50:08):
It's more facilitating.
Speaker 2 (50:12):
Having a clear definition of what the job is.
Having people to give coachinghere's how you do it.
Here's a different way to do itSide by side, watching them and
helping them.
And it's not telling a person,it's not.
The more modern management isnot giving orders.
(50:34):
It's describing the job,helping them with it, measuring
results, coming back andimproving, not criticizing.
I mean the fact the word ordersounds like it's easy to
criticize and you don't keepemployees happy in a situation
(50:56):
with a lot of criticism.
No, yeah, and you get mad, so Ihave challenged that word that
all of management is ordering.
Speaker 1 (51:04):
Well, no, he said people who follow orders.
Well, that's where he said theright something.
Speaker 2 (51:13):
To me if you're judged on following orders,
doesn't allow your creativity tocome up, Because we learned so
much from brand new employees.
Speaker 1 (51:24):
Yeah, because they're not biased at all.
Speaker 2 (51:29):
And there's a story from Marriott and Marriott
hotels and they hire new people,new maids and things, and so at
the end of a week or so, theytalk with them to see what could
we be doing differently, whatis the better idea?
(51:49):
Because a brand new set of eyescan spot gaps or inefficiency.
Or why are you doing it thatway?
That's done so.
Marriott is known for reallylistening to new employees, so
that's an example.
Again, I emphasize the wordlistening.
Speaker 1 (52:16):
Oh, no, it's true, and that's the only reason I
bring that one up.
It was interesting because Itold him.
I said, yeah, if you asked thaton the way out, when you say
write something, I would justwrite.
I really need this job.
Thanks, josh, kind of thing.
But that's where I told him.
But that is interesting, thetense on word, the meaning
(52:42):
behind the word.
I took it as write in action.
You meant follow, like theliteral words.
I said yeah.
I said, and that's what I toldhim.
I said that would be a greatfilter system.
I said but do you rely on that?
Only?
He's like no, no, no, there's alot of them.
He's like maybe you are thecreative I need, which then all
those rules don't even apply.
(53:02):
I almost want you to break themto know you're the correct.
One kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (53:09):
Well you seem to be very creative and willing to
come up with lots of ideas.
Speaker 1 (53:16):
Yeah, well, the one thing he mentioned.
I actually laughed at thisbecause he said I thought he
thinks this is one of my guests.
Now he told me sometimes I getreally bored and I just want to
spice things up during theinterview process.
He's like there's not much youcan spice up without getting in
trouble.
And he's like so I'll write inthe middle same text to say, hey
(53:38):
, if you really want this joband you made it to this point if
you can print a photo of yourfavorite cat or of your cat,
you'll get a lot of browningpoints, extra browning points.
If you can print it in colorand he's like and if you can
bring this to me while wearingAmerican flag pin on your left
lapel, you practically guaranteeto get a job.
(54:01):
Well, all the dudes and mostwomen did it, but there was
these two little petite, shyladies that had the color
printed thing and the Americanflag pin.
He was not expecting hiring twopeople, but he took his
receptionist, like okay, we needto hire two people, I can't let
these two go.
Put him somewhere and thenwe'll figure out where to put
(54:22):
him after that.
Okay, that's another one hetold me he's like yeah, he's
like I was looking for oneperson.
I got two instead.
Speaker 2 (54:33):
I'm sure they were very grateful.
Speaker 1 (54:35):
And he paid him.
Well, I know he said, and he'slike they were so skilled and
they undersold themselves.
He's like normally my recruitswhen they're first hired, to
like 15 to 18 bucks.
He's like they were so skilledthey instantly went up to 30 an
hour.
He's like I could not affordthem to leave anymore.
So I think the last I chattedwith him via email, those ladies
(54:55):
were up to like 45 an hour andhe's like and they love it.
Oh my God.
Speaker 2 (55:01):
I'm standing pay for performance.
Speaker 1 (55:04):
Right.
Speaker 2 (55:04):
Excellent, excellent.
Speaker 1 (55:06):
Oh no, and that's what he said.
He's like everyone says payyourself first.
He's like, no, pay youremployees well and they will
take care of you, which meansyou get paid more Kind of thing
he's like.
But always remember to pay themwell, because if you don't, and
you don't give them compliments, there's some other company
that'll pay him more.
It's the compliment.
Speaker 2 (55:24):
It's the appreciation as well as the pay.
Speaker 1 (55:28):
We both yeah, because his business was pretty
rudimentary.
I think it was more like ITcall center stuff.
So these ladies were more likethe backend, bookkeeping and
stuff like that.
So they didn't even need toknow about the computer stuff
and that's where he's like.
But people don't want to dobookkeeping anymore and the fact
that these two were okay withit, he's like I had to pay them
(55:49):
to stay.
Yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (55:52):
Yeah, it's some customization for each
individual, a little bit ofcustomization.
Speaker 1 (55:59):
Exactly perfect.
Yeah, and that's so.
Would you also kind of likethat example, like if I have a
top performer, he's producing25% above average, should I pay
him average 25% more thaneveryone else?
Kind of thing?
Speaker 2 (56:18):
I wouldn't give a number, but certainly more than
average and employee of themonth stuff like that, other
kinds of rewards, and write himup in a magazine article or
something and multiple ways ofappreciation.
(56:38):
Certainly money is first, butit's not the only thing.
Speaker 1 (56:43):
Well, I was gonna say like, let's say he's a top
performer and I do give him abonus.
But let's say, maybe companypolicy, you get paid vacate,
you're guaranteed vacation, kindof thing, but you're not
guaranteed paid until third year, kind of thing.
And but it's like if he's a topperformer, he's like you know
what, we'll give you one weekpaid even though it's not your
third year, like that's yourbonus, go have fun, kind of
(57:06):
thing.
Is that another way you coulddo it?
Speaker 2 (57:09):
Sure, keep an open mind and be creative.
Speaker 1 (57:13):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (57:15):
And tailor the incentive or the appreciation to
an employee.
Speaker 1 (57:23):
So I'm just kind of talking Can you help company
policies.
Right, yeah don't don't affectyeah, don't interfere with
company policies, but like youcan get creative kind of thing,
Right.
Okay, nice.
Is there any topics inparticular that I might have
missed, that you would like totalk about?
Speaker 2 (57:53):
You've covered a lot of ground Well, thank you.
In leadership and managementand keeping employees happy, so
I mean my word.
I'm concentrating on isnurturing the leaders who are
overworking and to help them getmore time so that they they
(58:16):
have a more well rounded life.
Speaker 1 (58:19):
So work a lot and it sounds, and it sounds like if
they, if everyone's made it thisfar.
It sounds like you aredefinitely the Galda call for
that.
It really does.
If I was in, if I was in aposition where I needed a coach,
if I heard this podcast, I'ddefinitely be giving you a call.
Be like Margaret.
Yeah, I'm that guy on Josh'sshow.
(58:40):
I need help.
Speaker 2 (58:42):
Great, thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (58:46):
It's an absolute honor and pleasure.
I learned a lot, especiallyabout, like like you mentioned
earlier, like the feminineenergy.
I did learn a lot about that,like like I do realize, like I
do have more masculine tendencyfor things, but I try to be
softer with people now andespecially listening to you,
it's like, oh, there's stilldefinitely places I can work on,
(59:07):
kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (59:10):
I'm not trying to be critical, I'm just observing
from my, my experiences, andit's tailoring the coaching to
the person and the situation.
Speaker 1 (59:24):
Right.
Speaker 2 (59:24):
There's no one right, as you say.
There's no one right answer foreverybody.
Speaker 1 (59:29):
Right.
Speaker 2 (59:31):
How listening is it so important for leaders?
Speaker 1 (59:35):
It really is, and it's a shame.
It almost seems like leaders ingeneral don't want to hear
what's important until thebottom line is affected, but
then by then it's too late, kindof thing.
Speaker 2 (59:47):
It's probably pretty late then.
If they don't want to hear,then they're not subscribing to
continuous improvement.
You've got to hear what's wrongor what somebody thinks is
wrong, and then decide is itreally wrong, do we need to do
something about it or not?
Speaker 1 (01:00:08):
Like this one gentleman I talked to.
He was a big, like he had like800 people under him and like I
think he was like 4550 managersunder him, big district guy, and
I asked him like 800 people,that's a lot of people to tend
to.
Yes.
I said how did you, first ofall, how did you keep yourself
(01:00:29):
sane during all that?
And then, finally, I said theemployee morale must have been
really hard to monitor becausethat's so big.
And he said you know what he'slike, what I did.
He said I would find peoplethat are ambitious but had a
good, hearty personality, thatwere not jerks.
(01:00:49):
I'd promote them, see if theycould handle the promotion.
He said he's not no biggie.
I put him back somewhere else.
But he said if an employee hesaid one employee actually made
it to point to come to mypresident office and tell me
this, he would have to throw upevery day before he came to work
just to do his job.
I looked at him like okay,that's not good If you're
(01:01:10):
physically getting sick before ajob.
He's like.
I literally went down to HR andI told him.
I said, hey, give me a day ortwo, I'll get on this.
Make some calls.
He went to HR and says so andso is getting sick every day.
Dreads coming to work.
This is a HR problem.
Find him a new job Bye tomorrow.
There's literally the guy gotto call the next day and it's a
(01:01:34):
job.
He loves HR.
Since you called him, I figuredout that he likes numbers, so
they put him in more of like adata entry.
He's like the day I left, thekid was still happy and like oh
my God, it was amazing.
Hr just called me and justmoved me.
He's like I never told him.
I'm like no, you don't have to.
Speaker 2 (01:01:54):
Round pegs and round holes and square pegs and square
holes.
Speaker 1 (01:01:59):
Yeah, and that's where he's like.
And that's where he said buthe's like the key was delegation
, but making sure my managersessentially had the same mind
that I have.
And if they wereunderperforming, I would tell
him okay, what's going on,because you're way down below
everyone else and people areleaving.
And I tell him he's like.
And they tell me because theyhad to, it's a job, it's like
(01:02:20):
why I'd fire them.
And he said the same thing it'slike you.
And he's like okay, you're notfollowing procedures.
Obviously you're not listeningto employees, kind of thing.
Like do you want to still be amanager or can I?
Do you want me to put yousomewhere else?
Do you think I'm someoneunderneath you?
And I said, wow, okay, so I'mlike.
So good management has alwaysbeen known but for some reason,
(01:02:43):
corporations don't want to do it.
He's like oh no, it's allbottom line, it's the manager's
choice to do it.
He's like I lost a lot ofbonuses the way I manage people,
he's like, but I had the wholecompany wanted to come to work
under me.
He's like that was priceless,he's like.
Speaker 2 (01:02:59):
I love that, absolutely, absolutely.
How are we doing on time?
Speaker 1 (01:03:04):
Oh, I'm doing good.
Do you need to get going?
I do, okay.
So then quickly tell everyonewhere you're at, where they can
get you, and then I'll put thelinks in the description.
Speaker 2 (01:03:15):
I am Margaret Dorchester.
Speaker 1 (01:03:17):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (01:03:19):
And my email is first name at First Initial Last Name
, so Margaret M-A-R-G-A-R-E-T atM
Dorchester-D-O-R-C-H-E-S-T-E-Rdot com.
Speaker 1 (01:03:36):
Wonderful.
Any social media you're on orjust the website's good for you.
Speaker 2 (01:03:42):
Modeling didn't then anywhere else.
Speaker 1 (01:03:46):
Got it.
Speaker 2 (01:03:46):
And I'm happy to give a half hour free coaching
session.
Speaker 1 (01:03:53):
Mentioned Josh in the message.
Speaker 2 (01:03:55):
Of course.
Speaker 1 (01:03:57):
Calvin C.
It's not free unless youmessage me.
Speaker 2 (01:04:01):
Yes, thanks to Josh Bolton.
Speaker 1 (01:04:04):
All right, have a good one with your client or
podcast interview.
You'll be getting an emailpretty quick too.
Speaker 2 (01:04:13):
Great.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (01:04:15):
So nice meeting you.
Absolutely A pleasure.
Big hugs.
Thank you so much.
I don't want to hold you toomuch Bye.
So hello, hello, hello everybody.
For some reason, my Adobeaudition for this episode will
not let me upload my intro music.
Don't really need it anyways.
Just want to give you a headsup.
Me and Margaret were chattingfor a while and had a great time
and I just finally had to tellher Mike, we could keep chatting
and I forget the record.
So we talked about herconsulting and new coaching and
(00:25):
the quality employee morale.
It's amazing what we went into.
Just a little quick push.
I'm trying to get moresubscribers via podcast feeds
and reviews.
That helps me out when wantingto reach out to awesome people
like Margaret saying hey, I haveX amount of following, this
(00:47):
many reviews, this much of anemail list.
Like, would you come on to giveme like 30 minutes to an hour
of your time?
It makes it easier for me.
Other than that, yes, sosubscribe to the podcast if
you're in for it.
Youtube, I'm working on that.
It seems YouTube does notappreciate Zoom calls, so that's
(01:09):
, I'm trying to figure out howthat works.
Maybe buy a package on Adobefor After Effects and do the
sound wave thing, but either way, yeah.
So here we go, guys, let's getright into it.
(01:33):
Well okay, Don't worry aboutthis, I'll cut out this so it
makes more sense.
I'm just just chatting with you.
So for you said you're theconsulting part, it has changed
and shifted to more like is it abig business, more small
businesses?
(01:53):
That's what I heard.
Was that correct?
Speaker 2 (01:56):
I grew up in large businesses and medium businesses
and not for profits, so I'vebeen in the business world my
whole career.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
And.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
I'm a volunteer in the quality area with the
Malcolm Baldwin National QualityWorld Program, so I'm shifting
now for coaching.
My focus is with overworkingsmall business owners who are
losing track of their family.
(02:29):
They're not getting exercise,they're stressed, you know, over
challenged and helping themfind more time to look.
And part of that is wherelooking at where they want to be
spending their time, wherethey're spending it and helping
them put a plan together toshift.
(02:50):
And also looking within this inthe business, because I look
for ways.
I look for ways to improveprocesses, find areas that can
be included.
So it's both the personal sideand the business side to get
them more time.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
So does that like include automation and
outsourcing to like thePhilippines, or hiring, like
your nephew, for cheap, orsomething like that?
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Absolutely what I've found with small business, with
entrepreneurs.
They have great ideas, they putit to market, they nurture it
and grow it.
And they're used to doingeverything themselves.
So we want to step back andlook at those things that can be
(03:44):
outsourced to contractors orpartners or new buyers or
whatever, that they can focus onwhat's most important in the
business the strategy, thecustomers and the financials
Right.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Okay.
So I'm actually really curiousfor something you mentioned
earlier.
You're focusing on the smallbusiness owner that's busy,
doesn't have time for himself,or specifically exercising.
How do you specifically findthose?
Because that's a very thatgroup's not usually when they're
like that, they're not openminded like we should call
someone for help.
They're just like well, didBucketown harder, good thing.
(04:27):
So how do you find those guysspecifically?
Speaker 2 (04:31):
or go or cows, I work through LinkedIn Okay, other
colleagues who are coaching indifferent parts of different
functions.
For example, I've a consultingpartner who focuses on HR.
(04:51):
So hiring Okay, that's thatyou're really specific.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
That's good.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
People hire people, and so we're working together.
That's a combination ofresearch and offering services,
teaching those kinds of things.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
I like it.
And then also no podcasts, too.
That's a great way to getpeople.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Yes, that's what I've been told, and I'm grateful
that you invited me to join yourpodcast.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Yeah, actually, it's really funny.
I was just telling my father.
I said, yeah, I've been havinga lot of people reach out, but
when I send them my link,there's like 10 people.
Now I'm waiting.
I haven't clicked it.
They're like, oh, this is toogood to be true.
I'm like it's funny.
It's hard for me to get peoplelike you on too, and it's hard
to get on shows.
So it's like that mutual I needpeople and you need to get on,
(05:51):
but no one's talking to eachother.
So just a weird thing I'venoticed recently.
But yeah, no, I'm sorry, I hada little spastic thought there,
but I enjoyed.
I enjoy this like the chat withyou and I like that.
Like I was telling you on theemails before we actually got on
(06:11):
there and I started recording.
It's like this is just like Iinvited you to coffee shop near
your house or office or whereverand just be like tell me about
your life, kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Well, I'm interested in what you're interested in too
, so tell me more about you andyour travels.
You seem to want to.
You seem to enjoy travelingright.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Yes, I do, my biggest one recently.
I went to Italy last year,actually around this time last
year.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
That's a good time it is.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
It was right at the tail end is when it got hot, but
it wasn't like unbearable, itwas just instead of like.
Here in California we caneasily hit 115.
It was more like 90 something,with dry heat wasn't bad at all.
The view was so worth it.
Like I, we went to like Turkeyand there's a cat, a place where
(07:04):
we landed.
There's an actual like castleand everything made like 6000 BC
.
It was gorgeous.
I was just I was climbing inthat castle.
The funny thing is that wasgoing up to it, this one guy in
a wheelchair had a Liz, a bigiguana in a parrot.
He's like you want to take aphoto with the lizard 20, 20 us?
And I'm like, no, I'm good dude, and I held up my wallet.
(07:25):
I'm like I don't have cashanyway, so I can't pay you.
And he looks and he's like, allright, fair enough, I don't
charge you.
You still want a lizard pictureof my case?
I'm like I'm not going to thinkit was.
And then so then I was justwalking around the castle and I
asked him like hey, because hewas handicapped.
(07:47):
I'm like, um, any areas yourecommend to the view?
He?
He pulls out his wheelchair.
He's like dude, this thing isall terrain, it's like an ATV
and he's like and he shows us Call moving.
He's like I can get all overthis place.
He said you want to go in theback?
He's a careful, though.
There is a medieval pit.
He's like if you fall in, noone's going to find you, kind of
(08:08):
thing.
I was like, oh, I want to seethe pit now.
He's like, but if you get upthere and you climb around a
certain rock, the view isamazing.
The tourists don't even know itexists.
So it was.
It was gorgeous.
Like the water was more blue,there was no boats really there
and I just sat there and Iwatched it.
(08:29):
I was like this is amazing.
This is like like that littleslice of heaven on earth kind of
thing.
But tell me about yourself.
So you were giving me a littlebit of your history in the
beforehand.
Tell everyone out, like likewhat you do, what led up to you,
(08:52):
like coaching and just likethat whole backstory.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Okay, well, I enjoy helping people Okay.
As I said, a lot of experiencein business work and in working
with volunteers and people ingeneral, and my passion is
(09:19):
quality and quality okay.
One definition of quality isdoing the right things right.
So doing the right things isyour strategy.
To make sure that you have astrategy and you know that
you're focusing on the thingsthat will help in business.
(09:42):
Doing things right is the partof execute that you are
delivering what your customerswant.
You're building what you wantto build or create for customers
.
So it's two sides of are youdoing the things you really want
(10:03):
to be doing when you say youwant to be doing, and then I
need to win ring what yourcustomers work.
So what I'm trying, skilled in,is looking at processes.
Is a process processes or howyou run your business?
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Right.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
When your processes aren't lined up, you may have
duplicate work, so people aredoing the same things and you
only need one person to do thatthing for their gaps, or you're
not reaching out to yourcustomers to know am I
delivering what you want?
You know, getting feedback fromcustomers is really very
(10:43):
important.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
I'm just curious in your quality and how you assess
things, does also employeemorale come into play, because
if the employee morale is low,the quality goes down, kind of
thing.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
I'm having a little trouble hearing you.
You're asking about dealingwith morale.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Employee morale yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Okay, leadership is responsible for everything.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
And studies have shown that employees behave I'm
sorry.
Employees dig into the workwhen they're appreciated.
So if they don't, if they don'tfeel appreciated, they are more
likely to look somewhere else.
So it's the leader'sresponsibility to understand
(11:40):
what the work is about and learnhow to get feedback from
employees and appreciate them.
Women have a more natural flairfor intuition and reading
people and getting feedback.
(12:00):
So most of the articles I'veread recently about employee
turnover is the men don't get it.
They may have to study thefeminine side of themselves and
not be ashamed of it.
So when I coach leaders, youknow we go through what's.
(12:27):
For example, how do they getfeedback from their employees?
What does their turnover numberlook like?
And compare it to other kindsof businesses that might be
similar, so that they seethere's a number there that's
not as good a number as theywant.
So sometimes people are numberspeople and they're not people
(12:50):
people.
So so you discuss how to becomemore of a people person, and
maybe the HR person can adviseas well.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
It's true, yeah, no.
And then that touches onsomething, because a while ago I
used to do security and reallylong story short is essentially
one of the big bosses was like,hey, why do?
Why is my number suffering atthis place?
I'm like, well, a guy with thelike, the neck tattoo with the
hell gate and the demon spawncoming out, he's like, yeah,
(13:25):
Chuck.
I'm like well, Chuck justliterally wished he could break
his leg and go home unpaid forsix months instead of working
for you for one day.
Oh, I'm like I said he literallywanted to get in a car crash
and not come to you for sixmonths.
I'm like you have a moralproblem, that's why your quality
sucks.
I'm like the word moral hasmore power than what's actually
going on here, kind of thing.
(13:46):
So I just told him, like dude,for humans we love games, even
the non competitive shy lovegames, kind of thing.
And I said, sad to say, for a Wtwo worker on minimum wage 100
bucks, sadly, is really gamechanging.
And I'm like, can you spare 100bucks?
He's like, yeah, I usually buymy steak dinners at 250 and I go
(14:07):
twice a week.
I'm like I don't know where yougo for steak dinner at 250 a
shop, but I want one of those.
So I said can you spare twosteak dinners a week and then
give that cash and I evencompany money and just your cash
to them?
And he's like, oh yeah, withinone month they went from like,
(14:30):
let's say, number six, like200,000 packages a day at a
dollar each to a million a dayat a dollar each.
I literally just said think of agame.
I said you've been in yourivory tower too long saying make
more money for me, kind ofthing and you forgot what it's
(14:50):
like to be the manager in thefield, kind of thing.
I told him.
I said, remember when you werea manager, you would go buy that
expensive taco died guy downthe street with the company car
because you're like I want totry him for myself, but I'm
gonna use company dollars, plus,everyone did good, he's a, he
had the biggest career and he'slike, yeah, I'm like you haven't
done that in like 30 years.
So he did, he did a blowout.
(15:14):
Their production was insane.
It was under a month and a half.
And that's where he put it.
That's what I was asking.
But he even said the quality.
The injuries were low, lower.
There was no more call off.
People are actually begging forsecond shifts because they
wanted to increase their numbersfor the game.
I didn't even tell him how toset up the game, I just said
this is an idea, you should doit, kind of thing.
(15:38):
And that's where I was curiousif that's a similar thing for
you.
And it sounds like, yes, not tothat, not what I did, but it's
similar thing.
Yeah, but I kind of said itwithout saying it, like you said
earlier, like you don'tremember the, the, the feeling
part of your employees becauseyou were in the trenches with
them.
So you're like, oh, john'sreally struggling, I better go
get him like a snake, like a, gobuy him a snack or something
(15:59):
Cause just to give him somecalories.
But also like, oh crap, boss,boss bought me a soda, like I'm
going to work harder today, butyeah, that's like my favorite
one.
And then, like the the finishthat story off, he just walks up
with his personal checkbook andsays so, how much do you want
for that?
And I'm like, uh, well, Ididn't expect to get paid for
(16:22):
this.
He's like pick a number, anynumber.
What do you want?
Like $10,000.
Okay, here you go.
The only reason I mentioned thenumbers earlier.
I only learned that afterwardswhen I told I'm holding the
check.
And I'm like, uh, wow, that wasreally easy.
(16:43):
I'm like I looked up, I gavehim back to him because I'm like
I think my account will notlike the taxes on that.
And he's like am I right?
Well, if you ever want thecheck back, tell me and I'll
give it to you.
But it's one of those.
No, that's the reason I figuredout the number.
I told the lady that what I wascalling the whole time and
(17:05):
she's like, oh yeah, like heessentially made a dollar
package and he was doing 200 a Ka year, a month, a day Sorry, a
day and you got him to amillion a day.
She's like you could easily askfor two million.
You would have given it to you.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
I looked at her and I'm like, okay, might want to go
ask for that check back then.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Sounds like you earned it for sure.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
Well, and but that's, that's kind of been my thing.
So, um, just talking on that,but what else?
So under quality for you?
Um, what else do you look into?
You were talking aboutprocesses and procedures and the
double work.
How do you know where thedouble work is, kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
When you start at the end and what are the defects,
what's broken?
How many returns do you getfrom customers?
How long does it take to dotask number 104?
Right, it has somebody assesshow long it should take?
(18:14):
And do employees A, b and C doit differently?
Because you want to getuniformity.
You want to get the bestprocess, as opposed to three
people doing it three differentways.
You start with the end.
How happy are the customers?
How happy are you with the timeit takes to get from the
(18:40):
beginning of an order or a taskto the end?
You want to gather some dataand then you want to get people
together and discuss it.
What do you see that's workingright here, correctly?
What do you see that's notworking quite so right?
And brainstorm.
(19:01):
You want to get people's ideas,not just one person.
It's getting the brain power ofeverybody that helps solve
problems.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Okay.
So like a metaphorical let'ssay it's an office marketing
agency that calls you.
Is it the constant calls fromthe client saying like hey, you
haven't produced what we said?
Or is it more like who's theideal?
Instead of me speculating,who's your usual client that you
(19:36):
deal with in your coaching andconsulting that you help out
with?
I mean, you don't have to giveme details of the exact company
names, just generally who do youdeal with?
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Well, I do deal with the leadership.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
The leadership like C-Suite.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
The organization Okay and they usually have some
issues.
So it could be too manycustomers calling.
I'm not happy.
It could be not enoughcustomers.
So what can we do to get morecustomers?
What could be waste, whetherit's time or bad products?
(20:15):
It depends if they'remanufacturing or if they're
service Right, and usually thepeople who are closest to the
customers are the ones who feelthe heat, feel the things that
aren't going right as wellMiddle and upper management.
If they don't step out to meetcustomers, spend time with them,
(20:40):
they're not necessarily as intouch with where the oh 100%.
The clients are yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
The biggest one.
I've had a few managersapproach me Just like quick tips
what can we do to improve ourstuff?
I'm like, talk to whoever dealswith the customers the most,
whether it's a returns person.
I said, surprisingly, janitorshave to deal with the customers
a lot and they hear things theyreally shouldn't anyways, talk
to the janitor, talk to thereturn people, and I said,
(21:15):
because a lot of them weregrocery stores I said talk to
your clerks, though, that youcheck them out.
They hear everything.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Oh, they experience everything.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Yes, yes, and I told them just talk with them.
But I said, don't be closedminded.
They say, hey, the customersare being really mean and rude.
That means you need to step up.
Like you said earlier, you'rethe leader, You're responsible
for that kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
I was at the grocery store the other day and there
was only one shepherd and theline was quite long.
And I asked her can we call themanager and see if they can
open up another aisle?
And she said we're shorthanded.
The manager over there isworking the self-checking, so
(22:05):
that particular store must havehad turnover or or just everyone
called off, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Or massive call off too, yes, because I used to work
at a grocery store before mycurrent job and, yeah, call offs
were Some days you'd hearnothing and then some days more
than half the crew just calledoff in one day and I'm like how
do you run a business when halfyour crew can disappear?
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Exactly, One of my clients is a technology person
and he's a PC guru.
He's brilliant Kind of crustythat.
He's brilliant and we discussedyou know you're going to need
some help.
He can be a good teacher andwhat he said was they come in
(22:56):
and they don't want to workevery day.
No, the other thing, they'retelling me how to run my
business.
You know, they're laid off fromMicrosoft or wherever and he
says I don't need people likethat.
I expect people to come to workevery day and be willing to
learn.
And his criteria are coachable.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
I mean willing to learn and then have some basic
background and be comfortablewith technology and start with
yeah, I mean, if you get in anIT or coding or like your
computer repair business, yeah,you need to be well versed.
You don't have to be the bestin technology and coding, but
yeah, that's a big one.
I've noticed too that thesekids, especially with TikTok,
(23:44):
are like I know how the businessis supposed to be ran.
Blah, blah, blah.
You can't do this to me becauseof California code blah, blah,
blah and that's like yeah, butalso California code 30 instead
of 28 overwrites that.
And they're like what?
You're infringing on me, You'reoppressing me, I'm going to sue
you and just walk away.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Oh, my goodness.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
It's crazy, and there's a lot of these.
I call them TikTok lawyers.
Now they're saying hey, if yourlittle boss says this, that's
retaliation and we can get you ashit ton of money.
Just give me a call, and it'slike.
But a lot of them have gottenthe business owners in trouble.
So it is another problem whereit's like these kids have all
(24:26):
this access to these scummylawyers and they don't need to
know how business works.
They make money either way andit's the sad part.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Now I don't know you with that depth here in this
area, but wow.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
You have essentially like I mean in general just a
lawyer giving an order Sorry, ifnot a lawyer, a boss, a manager
saying hey, you're slacking, Ineed you to pick up the speed.
I guess if they repeat thatmore than so many times a day,
that's considered harassment byCalifornia law.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
Well, I certainly wouldn't approach it that way.
Well, right?
Speaker 1 (25:19):
No, but I'm just telling you.
That's also where sometimes thequality of people are getting
scummy or scummy here.
So back to your customer.
I can understand the word.
He's like I only wantexcellence and I'll do it myself
because, yeah, the people arenot the best right now.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
I understand hiring people that are willing to work
and willing to learn and getalong with each other and be
challenging If there's so manyjobs that they can just hop from
one to another you know thatdoesn't give them incentive to
stay at one place and try andmake better.
(25:59):
But again, leadership'sresponsibility to make the
workplace a suitable place, aplace where you can learn and
advance over time and contribute.
So it's always the leader'sfault.
I mean Dr Demain goes back tothat it's all the responsibility
(26:23):
of leadership.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
It really is.
And that's the interesting part.
A lot of managers and businessowners don't want to admit.
They're like no, no, no, no,it's the employees fault because
they don't have their emotionsand checked, kind of thing,
which is not true either.
So hypothetical let's say I'm anew client of yours and I have
(26:51):
a marketing no, let's look overlike a marketing agency.
I have like 40 people under me,but my problem is I'm losing
people to my competitors forpricing, for quality reasons,
because that's where youspecialize.
What would I need to do as yourclient that you would suggest
to me to help retain myemployees?
(27:12):
But also, maybe I'm burning outmy employees too.
We haven't gotten that deep inthe conversation, but foreshadow
, kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
Well, there are probably several elements to
look at If you're burning outyour employees and you're
burning out yourself you don'thave a good strategy.
You might not have a good matchof how complicated the work is
or what your role is the leaderand various roles of the
(27:47):
employees so I would take a lookat what are you trying to
accomplish, what are the skillsyou need, what is your timeline
for delivering what yourcustomers want?
And take a look at what's wrongwith those things.
I mean burning out youremployees.
(28:09):
You're probably going to havethem leave.
You have a turnover problem aswell.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Yeah, probably If people are looking for it out.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
I don't want to work here.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
It doesn't matter, he's paying me 40 bucks an hour.
It's not worth it, kind ofthing.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
That may be, and the leader needs to listen.
I think that's the first skillI coach on to get a sense of
what is really going on.
Again, listen to your customers, listen to your employees,
listen to the informal leadersin your organization, because
(28:47):
everybody has some people whoare leaders among the worker
bees.
You're natural leaders.
Find some people and close yourmouth and listen, take notes
and don't react in a negative.
(29:08):
Well, they shouldn't do that.
Listen for them to trust youthat you're going to take that
information and confidence andtry and learn from it.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
So again back to I'm your client.
Let's say I can't for somereason convince my employees to
come into a meeting and tell methat they think I'm going to
fire them for some reason, thatinviting them to my office is
just they're too scared to.
What are other ways I could getinformation ethically out of my
employees without having to belike get in my office now and
(29:44):
tell me everything becausethat's not going to work.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
So getting an employee satisfaction survey
regularly is a way where theydon't have to give their name
and you can collect informationthat you're looking for and some
statistics.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
So would that, when you say regularly, are you
talking like monthly, quarterly,yearly?
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Once a year in most places okay have enough that you
can learn from it to adjust theprocesses and the recognition.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
All right.
So then I get an employeesurvey and a lot of them are
saying that generally I'm a goodboss, I don't lead them well,
but I'm unrealistic in myexpectations.
The quality that I expectcompared to what they can
produce, the gap's too big.
(30:48):
So how would you help meaddress that to readjust my
standards?
Good thing.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
Okay, we want to spend some time on the
definition of quality in yourOkay.
Quality is different todifferent people, so we usually
measure it by how successful theprocesses are in delivering the
(31:20):
end product or service.
So a gap in expectation needsgood dialogue.
Why?
would the management think it's10 widgets an hour and what
you're producing is threewidgets an hour, right, so what
(31:41):
is the process to build a widget?
And early in management youlearn to do time motion studies.
So how long does it take personA to do a widget, person B to
do a widget, person C, and dothey do it differently?
So who's more successful andhow can we model that behavior
(32:05):
or document the process in thatsense that person A is the most
successful?
So what can we learn fromperson A and then teach person B
and C to do it that way?
Does that make sense?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that makes alot of sense and document and
(32:30):
categorize it with the intentionof continuous improvement.
Part of quality is continuousimprovement.
Keep your eyes open forinnovation, for small
improvements.
Innovation is big improvementsand then small improvements as
well.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Right and they have like the small little things
here or there, like maybe theyinstead of they need, instead of
our ergonomic correct chair,they actually just need a
standing desk kind of thing.
And for Johnny, that's exactlywhat he needs and his product,
his productivity goes throughthe roof, because he's a kind of
said kind of guy.
But maybe, like Lucy, needs theergonomic correct chair and the
(33:15):
fancy keyboard and the rest andall that, and then her
productivity can go up.
Yeah, it's not one size doesnot fit all, right, but there's,
there's general outlines thatyou can fall for each.
Okay, I get that, yeah.
So, yeah, what I was leading towas like the 10, I want to
expect in 10 widgets.
It's three widgets they'reproducing and it's just like the
(33:37):
quality of the products good,I'm not really getting any
returns, the customers are happy, but it's just, my employees
are like boss, we can't, wecan't do it that fast kind of
thing.
So, yeah, that was really good,thank you.
So then the other one would belet's say, my metaphorical
widget shop is that theemployees are wanting more
(34:01):
breaks because it's a really hotmanufacturing environment and
they're they're overheatingconsistently.
But I can't afford constantlygiving breaks.
But I also do run the risk ofthem leaving, because it's just
unrealistic.
If I was your client, whatwould you tell me to do to help
improve the quality of theirlife, but also the productivity
(34:22):
and safety to?
Speaker 2 (34:27):
that's a really good question with the climate change
going on and, speaking in theUnited States, people who are
working outside are fainting andthey're having to drink water
you know where hats and moists,kurchifs and stuff.
(34:53):
It's really up to managementand what the best practices are
from the health care side on howto manage people who work
outside, and I mean people whochange, do roofing, people who
do picking, farming you knowdoing farming and digging and
(35:20):
picking and things like that.
There are best practices thatthe health care organizations do
publish on keeping employeessafe.
And then there's OSHA, as OSHAmay have guidelines as well.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
Right, so yeah, but like most sorry, I keep
interrupting.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
You're going to get sued.
You're going to lose people aswell.
You have to take their safetyinto consideration.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Right, yeah, that's what I was about to say is like
a lot of contracting companiesand roofers.
They don't care about OSHA orbest practices, like just get up
there and if you feel faint, goin the corner, drink some
Gatorade and get back up there,kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
I'm afraid you're right.
I mean, it's really not ethicalto do that.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Right.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
Yeah, most.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
I remember I used to work for it's weird to say it
was under the table.
Under the table, just cash only.
I used to work for an ammoplant.
It was out of a guy's garage,it was wild there, but the best
practices.
He actually said that he's likeyou are safe here, but if
(36:39):
you're looking up rules on howto do ammunition, we don't
follow any of them andtechnically this shop doesn't
exist.
And that I mean I made crazymoney with this dude again.
Obviously he made way more offme, but it was just one of those
.
Yeah, if I tried to like, callwhoever like the government play
(36:59):
, he's not following rule numbertwo or three, kind of thing.
He literally said I could closeup shop, move everything long
before the government gets here.
They won't even know I'm here.
So he's like and that's anotherone where a lot of businesses
are ran like under the table, solike if you say anything to
where you're talking about, younever worked here, kind of thing
(37:21):
.
That's another problem employeesface.
I mean there's always theaboveboard ones and they're
still shady managers that dothat, but that a lot of people
are still paid cash on our tableeven though we're going
cashless, kind of thing.
So in that case let's just say,like I have a contracting
(37:42):
company and I'm not hiringillegal immigrants from Home
Depot, but I'm hiring 20 yearolds in college that don't want
to W to the like.
Hey, I said, pay me 25 an hour.
Can you pay me 20 bucks cash anhour and I'll work for you
however long you need it.
And I'm like cool as thewonderful coach that you are.
(38:03):
What would you tell me in thatsituation to handle my employees
?
Because that does still open mefor a lawsuit, kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
As a certified management consultant, we commit
to ethical behavior, so I couldnot work with someone like that
.
That's just against myprinciples and the ethical
(38:36):
statement that I signed.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
Okay, I would say I'm sorry if I pushed you in the
corner on that one.
I was just curious.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
Yeah, no, I can't deal with that kind of person.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
All right, so that guy out of the picture.
So if any of you are thinkingof a higher rigor, that do that,
buzz off.
But okay, so then let's justsay I'm above board, but again
I'm still paying him aboveminimum wage.
Pretty ethical, totally legal.
But I am not like a slavedriver, but I am in pretty.
(39:15):
It's like hey, boys, it'sgetting hot, like, just beat the
heat, let's go faster, kind ofthing.
So when the heat of the daycomes we can just go sit under
the tree and relax.
But it is intense leading up tothat point.
Is there anything in that youwould recommend so my boys or
gals are not burnt to a crisp,literally and emotionally, kind
(39:39):
of thing.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
Well, I get back to standardize the work.
What is the meantime to do thewidgets and what's unreasonable?
What if?
There's no one set way, though,as much as you can to make it
(40:03):
simple, straightforward, step bystep, documented and tested.
I mean, it's not likesomebody's being unreasonable,
saying go faster, faster, faster, without real data.
You've got to have some data inyour operations to know what's
(40:26):
reasonable and what might not be.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
But what if there's no one set way, like the making
caramel apples?
There's no one set way ofmaking caramel apples, kind of
thing.
I mean, yes, you can alwayshave the automated machines, but
this is just a mom and pop shophand dipping them, hand
breading them, packaging them.
(40:50):
They don't have the machinesand stuff like that.
I mean, I did it once on theside, messed up my hands doing
it, but there was no set way.
They just said hold your spike,either slam it or take a hammer
and hit it, but careful whereyou hit the hammer because the
thing could be off and that's it.
Then they walked away.
I was like, how does this work?
Speaker 2 (41:18):
How does this work?
Speaker 1 (41:21):
So that's more what I was alluding to, where even the
people they're like there's noone way.
Whatever works for you, kind ofthing, as long as it looks
straight, and that's all we want, kind of thing.
So in that case, how would youlike the caramel apple example?
How would you talk to thecaramel apple lady that's paying
everyone?
Speaker 2 (41:42):
You might think about incentives.
Okay, but with the top producer?
I mean, you might rate thepeople from top producer to the
newest person and pay themaccordingly.
So your top producer would makemore money than your brand new
person and you would ask the topproducer to share that
(42:07):
technique that he or she isusing to produce more products
in a time period.
Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (42:18):
No, it does.
That's actually what I had todo to figure it out.
I found the top dog and I waslike, okay, what are you doing?
That's where he.
And then he just told me he'slike dude, it's really simple.
And he actually pulled out thislittle doodad he made.
He's like I'll make you one,it's really easy kind of thing.
And so he's like you just putit in, slam it really hard,
perfect every time.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
You do want your top producers to teach and mentor
others, and that's part of whythey should be paid more.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
Well, he was hard to talk to.
He was like a stereotypical,like high schooler with big
headphones, like even biggerthan mine, so that's where I had
to like and he was the kind ofenergy where, like he's
generally a nice guy, but ifyou're around them and you don't
know him, he's likeintimidating and scary kind of
thing.
So everyone was scared to talkto him.
(43:07):
I'm like you know what?
I'm that guy to ask questions.
I'm just going to ask him, likeI don't want to keep hurting my
hands, what do you keep doing,kind of thing.
He's like oh, man.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
Well a leadership is important to recognize who are
the top producers and ask themand coach them to teach the
others, without beingintimidating.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
Or be like what's your process?
If it's not, if it's unorthodox, can you at least explain the
basics so I could write it down?
Sure.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (43:40):
You know like, yeah, there might be like from going
from step two, you skip three,go to four, you hit three and
you're back to five and odd kindof thing.
That might be a thing.
But what's the steps in, likein order, that you have to do?
Yeah, that makes sense.
Okay, I like it.
Speaker 2 (43:54):
That's what I say is this there's a standard process
and maybe somebody has been ableto skip three and four, three
and five, and that could be aninnovation that may be, the best
process.
So, keep in mind those peoplewho are creative, who do come up
with other ways of doing thingsand then, over time, move that
(44:19):
to be this new standard.
You're always looking to bebetter and use ideas that are
working.
Speaker 1 (44:28):
So in like that case let's say, back to the caramel
apple thing, I have my caramelapple shop and everything, and
let's say I do have my bestproducer telling me stuff.
But then let's say little Jennyfigures out, oh, we can't skip
step three.
Like step three is justcompletely irrelevant and we're
not affecting health code bytelling me that and we have to
(44:50):
prove it.
Should I give her like a bonusor a gift card or what would you
recommend in that case?
Like I generally want to rewardmy employee but I don't want to
give her like 500 bucks Becauseit's like it's okay, it's not
actually 500 bucks, but I wanther to know like you made a
great improvement.
Thank you, kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (45:10):
I've seen teams get together and brainstorm what
they would appreciate.
So, they come up with a set ofincentives, or add a boy, add a
girl.
That's a typical kind of onewith a small amount of money or
(45:31):
a half a day off.
Or bring in ice cream onceevery two weeks, or something
like that.
Tell them to the employees, andwhat would you know?
Bring their choice.
Speaker 1 (45:45):
So essentially, like when you're having all these
strategy meetings with youremployees, it doesn't have to be
blatantly obvious to be likehey, so like hypothetically, if
I want to reward you guys, whatwould you want?
And they'll all just be like oh, I want ice cream, 100 bucks
for gas gas is expensive stufflike that and you just kind of
(46:05):
like take mental notes not likeSanta Claus, okay, sure.
Speaker 2 (46:08):
So, first guess, that's a terrific idea.
Speaker 1 (46:10):
Yeah, guess is going up against it.
Yeah, you want 100 bucks forgas.
Here you go, tinker gas for you.
Speaker 2 (46:16):
So you know, ask them or have them brainstorm, and
then seeing what crazy ideascome along, that really would
cheer them up.
Speaker 1 (46:29):
Nice.
So I know this is not yourspecialty and you don't have to
answer it in any way, but let'ssay, kind of like your client
that's having trouble hiringpeople, he like he can find the
source of people, the computerone, earlier.
How would you, in ahypothetical sense, let's say
I'm in his situation where Ihave this proprietary knowledge
(46:51):
and software and all that, but Idon't, but the people don't
seem to understand it, but Ialso can't get quality people.
So what I'm trying to get to ishow would you recommend I
filter people to find some thequality within them?
Speaker 2 (47:09):
Can you ask that again?
Speaker 1 (47:11):
I know that was a really rambly Sorry.
So essentially what I wasasking is I'm like your computer
client earlier that youmentioned, but I can't find
quality people.
I can find people but they'renot of quality that will stick.
What would be some of yourmethods?
You can tell me, as a client,how to filter different
(47:31):
employees coming on to like findthe quality within them.
Speaker 2 (47:39):
Well, sometimes you have to hire them and see.
You know, talk to them this isthe job, these are the
expectations and watch them workand coach them and see how
they're doing.
They somehow can stay.
If it's an attitude of I knowbetter than you, you know, if
(48:01):
it's an attitude issue, thatperson's not going to work out.
Speaker 1 (48:05):
Right.
Speaker 2 (48:06):
I mean it's two-sided the employee needs to learn and
the boss needs ways to teachand coach and nurture and not be
real hard on them necessarily.
It's that attitude is reallyimportant.
Speaker 1 (48:24):
Would it also be like the emotional intelligence of
the situation to you bet, youbet.
Okay, okay, so then.
So what I was trying to get atis essentially like there can
obviously now there's loadedquestions.
I actually heard this at acoffee shop.
Was really funny.
One of the guys had a great wayto filter people that follow
(48:46):
orders and do what you say kindof thing is.
He says you do your interviewand you have all this different
stuff.
But he said a big one is he'slike I would always leave a book
on the floor right next to thechair where they're coming in
and he's like I would see ifthey pick it up and put it on my
desk it didn't have to be inthe best place just to see if
they'd even pick it up.
Cause he said that means to goabove and beyond without being
(49:09):
told what to do.
I was like that's interesting,okay.
He said no, another one.
He's like it's funny, but he'slike it tells you if people
follow orders, well, is hey, onyour way out, can you write
something on that whiteboard?
And I was like okay, and that'swhere it was like a joke.
(49:32):
I said then I probably write awhole freaking story because you
said write something Like theaction.
He's like no, I wanted the wordsomething.
And I'm like clearly I don'tfollow orders.
Well then, when I looked up,actually I really don't follow
orders.
Speaker 2 (49:46):
Well, Well, I want to pause and use the borders.
The very old fashioned type ofmanagement was like the military
, where the upper officers giveorders and filter down.
The more modern strategy ofmanagement is not ordering.
Speaker 1 (50:08):
It's more facilitating.
Speaker 2 (50:12):
Having a clear definition of what the job is.
Having people to give coachinghere's how you do it.
Here's a different way to do itSide by side, watching them and
helping them.
And it's not telling a person,it's not.
The more modern management isnot giving orders.
(50:34):
It's describing the job,helping them with it, measuring
results, coming back andimproving, not criticizing.
I mean the fact the word ordersounds like it's easy to
criticize and you don't keepemployees happy in a situation
(50:56):
with a lot of criticism.
No, yeah, and you get mad, so Ihave challenged that word that
all of management is ordering.
Speaker 1 (51:04):
Well, no, he said people who follow orders.
Well, that's where he said theright something.
Speaker 2 (51:13):
To me if you're judged on following orders,
doesn't allow your creativity tocome up, Because we learned so
much from brand new employees.
Speaker 1 (51:24):
Yeah, because they're not biased at all.
Speaker 2 (51:29):
And there's a story from Marriott and Marriott
hotels and they hire new people,new maids and things, and so at
the end of a week or so, theytalk with them to see what could
we be doing differently, whatis the better idea?
(51:49):
Because a brand new set of eyescan spot gaps or inefficiency.
Or why are you doing it thatway?
That's done so.
Marriott is known for reallylistening to new employees, so
that's an example.
Again, I emphasize the wordlistening.
Speaker 1 (52:16):
Oh, no, it's true, and that's the only reason I
bring that one up.
It was interesting because Itold him.
I said, yeah, if you asked thaton the way out, when you say
write something, I would justwrite.
I really need this job.
Thanks, josh, kind of thing.
But that's where I told him.
But that is interesting, thetense on word, the meaning
(52:42):
behind the word.
I took it as write in action.
You meant follow, like theliteral words.
I said yeah.
I said, and that's what I toldhim.
I said that would be a greatfilter system.
I said but do you rely on that?
Only?
He's like no, no, no, there's alot of them.
He's like maybe you are thecreative I need, which then all
those rules don't even apply.
(53:02):
I almost want you to break themto know you're the correct.
One kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (53:09):
Well you seem to be very creative and willing to
come up with lots of ideas.
Speaker 1 (53:16):
Yeah, well, the one thing he mentioned.
I actually laughed at thisbecause he said I thought he
thinks this is one of my guests.
Now he told me sometimes I getreally bored and I just want to
spice things up during theinterview process.
He's like there's not much youcan spice up without getting in
trouble.
And he's like so I'll write inthe middle same text to say, hey
(53:38):
, if you really want this joband you made it to this point if
you can print a photo of yourfavorite cat or of your cat,
you'll get a lot of browningpoints, extra browning points.
If you can print it in colorand he's like and if you can
bring this to me while wearingAmerican flag pin on your left
lapel, you practically guaranteeto get a job.
(54:01):
Well, all the dudes and mostwomen did it, but there was
these two little petite, shyladies that had the color
printed thing and the Americanflag pin.
He was not expecting hiring twopeople, but he took his
receptionist, like okay, we needto hire two people, I can't let
these two go.
Put him somewhere and thenwe'll figure out where to put
(54:22):
him after that.
Okay, that's another one hetold me he's like yeah, he's
like I was looking for oneperson.
I got two instead.
Speaker 2 (54:33):
I'm sure they were very grateful.
Speaker 1 (54:35):
And he paid him.
Well, I know he said, and he'slike they were so skilled and
they undersold themselves.
He's like normally my recruitswhen they're first hired, to
like 15 to 18 bucks.
He's like they were so skilledthey instantly went up to 30 an
hour.
He's like I could not affordthem to leave anymore.
So I think the last I chattedwith him via email, those ladies
(54:55):
were up to like 45 an hour andhe's like and they love it.
Oh my God.
Speaker 2 (55:01):
I'm standing pay for performance.
Speaker 1 (55:04):
Right.
Speaker 2 (55:04):
Excellent, excellent.
Speaker 1 (55:06):
Oh no, and that's what he said.
He's like everyone says payyourself first.
He's like, no, pay youremployees well and they will
take care of you, which meansyou get paid more Kind of thing
he's like.
But always remember to pay themwell, because if you don't, and
you don't give them compliments, there's some other company
that'll pay him more.
It's the compliment.
Speaker 2 (55:24):
It's the appreciation as well as the pay.
Speaker 1 (55:28):
We both yeah, because his business was pretty
rudimentary.
I think it was more like ITcall center stuff.
So these ladies were more likethe backend, bookkeeping and
stuff like that.
So they didn't even need toknow about the computer stuff
and that's where he's like.
But people don't want to dobookkeeping anymore and the fact
that these two were okay withit, he's like I had to pay them
(55:49):
to stay.
Yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (55:52):
Yeah, it's some customization for each
individual, a little bit ofcustomization.
Speaker 1 (55:59):
Exactly perfect.
Yeah, and that's so.
Would you also kind of likethat example, like if I have a
top performer, he's producing25% above average, should I pay
him average 25% more thaneveryone else?
Kind of thing?
Speaker 2 (56:18):
I wouldn't give a number, but certainly more than
average and employee of themonth stuff like that, other
kinds of rewards, and write himup in a magazine article or
something and multiple ways ofappreciation.
(56:38):
Certainly money is first, butit's not the only thing.
Speaker 1 (56:43):
Well, I was gonna say like, let's say he's a top
performer and I do give him abonus.
But let's say, maybe companypolicy, you get paid vacate,
you're guaranteed vacation, kindof thing, but you're not
guaranteed paid until third year, kind of thing.
And but it's like if he's a topperformer, he's like you know
what, we'll give you one weekpaid even though it's not your
third year, like that's yourbonus, go have fun, kind of
(57:06):
thing.
Is that another way you coulddo it?
Speaker 2 (57:09):
Sure, keep an open mind and be creative.
Speaker 1 (57:13):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (57:15):
And tailor the incentive or the appreciation to
an employee.
Speaker 1 (57:23):
So I'm just kind of talking Can you help company
policies.
Right, yeah don't don't affectyeah, don't interfere with
company policies, but like youcan get creative kind of thing,
Right.
Okay, nice.
Is there any topics inparticular that I might have
missed, that you would like totalk about?
Speaker 2 (57:53):
You've covered a lot of ground Well, thank you.
In leadership and managementand keeping employees happy, so
I mean my word.
I'm concentrating on isnurturing the leaders who are
overworking and to help them getmore time so that they they
(58:16):
have a more well rounded life.
Speaker 1 (58:19):
So work a lot and it sounds, and it sounds like if
they, if everyone's made it thisfar.
It sounds like you aredefinitely the Galda call for
that.
It really does.
If I was in, if I was in aposition where I needed a coach,
if I heard this podcast, I'ddefinitely be giving you a call.
Be like Margaret.
Yeah, I'm that guy on Josh'sshow.
(58:40):
I need help.
Speaker 2 (58:42):
Great, thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (58:46):
It's an absolute honor and pleasure.
I learned a lot, especiallyabout, like like you mentioned
earlier, like the feminineenergy.
I did learn a lot about that,like like I do realize, like I
do have more masculine tendencyfor things, but I try to be
softer with people now andespecially listening to you,
it's like, oh, there's stilldefinitely places I can work on,
(59:07):
kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (59:10):
I'm not trying to be critical, I'm just observing
from my, my experiences, andit's tailoring the coaching to
the person and the situation.
Speaker 1 (59:24):
Right.
Speaker 2 (59:24):
There's no one right, as you say.
There's no one right answer foreverybody.
Speaker 1 (59:29):
Right.
Speaker 2 (59:31):
How listening is it so important for leaders?
Speaker 1 (59:35):
It really is, and it's a shame.
It almost seems like leaders ingeneral don't want to hear
what's important until thebottom line is affected, but
then by then it's too late, kindof thing.
Speaker 2 (59:47):
It's probably pretty late then.
If they don't want to hear,then they're not subscribing to
continuous improvement.
You've got to hear what's wrongor what somebody thinks is
wrong, and then decide is itreally wrong, do we need to do
something about it or not?
Speaker 1 (01:00:08):
Like this one gentleman I talked to.
He was a big, like he had like800 people under him and like I
think he was like 4550 managersunder him, big district guy, and
I asked him like 800 people,that's a lot of people to tend
to.
Yes.
I said how did you, first ofall, how did you keep yourself
(01:00:29):
sane during all that?
And then, finally, I said theemployee morale must have been
really hard to monitor becausethat's so big.
And he said you know what he'slike, what I did.
He said I would find peoplethat are ambitious but had a
good, hearty personality, thatwere not jerks.
(01:00:49):
I'd promote them, see if theycould handle the promotion.
He said he's not no biggie.
I put him back somewhere else.
But he said if an employee hesaid one employee actually made
it to point to come to mypresident office and tell me
this, he would have to throw upevery day before he came to work
just to do his job.
I looked at him like okay,that's not good If you're
(01:01:10):
physically getting sick before ajob.
He's like.
I literally went down to HR andI told him.
I said, hey, give me a day ortwo, I'll get on this.
Make some calls.
He went to HR and says so andso is getting sick every day.
Dreads coming to work.
This is a HR problem.
Find him a new job Bye tomorrow.
There's literally the guy gotto call the next day and it's a
(01:01:34):
job.
He loves HR.
Since you called him, I figuredout that he likes numbers, so
they put him in more of like adata entry.
He's like the day I left, thekid was still happy and like oh
my God, it was amazing.
Hr just called me and justmoved me.
He's like I never told him.
I'm like no, you don't have to.
Speaker 2 (01:01:54):
Round pegs and round holes and square pegs and square
holes.
Speaker 1 (01:01:59):
Yeah, and that's where he's like.
And that's where he said buthe's like the key was delegation
, but making sure my managersessentially had the same mind
that I have.
And if they wereunderperforming, I would tell
him okay, what's going on,because you're way down below
everyone else and people areleaving.
And I tell him he's like.
And they tell me because theyhad to, it's a job, it's like
(01:02:20):
why I'd fire them.
And he said the same thing it'slike you.
And he's like okay, you're notfollowing procedures.
Obviously you're not listeningto employees, kind of thing.
Like do you want to still be amanager or can I?
Do you want me to put yousomewhere else?
Do you think I'm someoneunderneath you?
And I said, wow, okay, so I'mlike.
So good management has alwaysbeen known but for some reason,
(01:02:43):
corporations don't want to do it.
He's like oh no, it's allbottom line, it's the manager's
choice to do it.
He's like I lost a lot ofbonuses the way I manage people,
he's like, but I had the wholecompany wanted to come to work
under me.
He's like that was priceless,he's like.
Speaker 2 (01:02:59):
I love that, absolutely, absolutely.
How are we doing on time?
Speaker 1 (01:03:04):
Oh, I'm doing good.
Do you need to get going?
I do, okay.
So then quickly tell everyonewhere you're at, where they can
get you, and then I'll put thelinks in the description.
Speaker 2 (01:03:15):
I am Margaret Dorchester.
Speaker 1 (01:03:17):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (01:03:19):
And my email is first name at First Initial Last Name
, so Margaret M-A-R-G-A-R-E-T atM
Dorchester-D-O-R-C-H-E-S-T-E-Rdot com.
Speaker 1 (01:03:36):
Wonderful.
Any social media you're on orjust the website's good for you.
Speaker 2 (01:03:42):
Modeling didn't then anywhere else.
Speaker 1 (01:03:46):
Got it.
Speaker 2 (01:03:46):
And I'm happy to give a half hour free coaching
session.
Speaker 1 (01:03:53):
Mentioned Josh in the message.
Speaker 2 (01:03:55):
Of course.
Speaker 1 (01:03:57):
Calvin C.
It's not free unless youmessage me.
Speaker 2 (01:04:01):
Yes, thanks to Josh Bolton.
Speaker 1 (01:04:04):
All right, have a good one with your client or
podcast interview.
You'll be getting an emailpretty quick too.
Speaker 2 (01:04:13):
Great.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (01:04:15):
So nice meeting you.
Absolutely A pleasure.
Big hugs.
Thank you so much.
I don't want to hold you toomuch Bye.
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