December 22, 2025 • 38 mins
Today, Josh breaks down the state of the conservative movement after Turning Point USA’s AmFest weekend—laying out the growing divide between the grifters dragging the Right into chaos and the voices fighting to keep the movement sane and serious. He explains why the conservative movement is standing at a true tipping point, and what has to happen next if the Right wants to win the future.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Well, I helped you out a great weekend, and just
like that, Amfest twenty twenty five Turning Point USA's big
annual conference out in Phoenix, Arizona. It is in the books.
What a lively conference it was. What does it mean?
Where do we stand right now when it comes to
the right, when it comes to the conservative movement. There's
been a lot of chatter about this. You've heard a
lot of different perspectives on this very question at the
(00:22):
conference itself. I've got my own thoughts in today's episode
of The Josh Hammer Show. So on Friday's show we
covered a little bit the opening night of the Amfest conferences.
Conference began on Thursday, again Turning Point USA's big annual conference.
This was really Charlie Kirk's super Bowl, he referred to
(00:43):
it as and it is the first Amfest without without
Charlie Kirks. The Turning Point holds multiple big events. They
host a lot of conferences. Among their biggest conferences are
this Amfest conference, their Student Action Summit, which is typically
in Tampa, Florida. That is the event where I debated
Dave Smith, the liberty bearing comedian, on foreign policy and
so forth.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Just over the summer in July. So this was anfes.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
This is the granddaddy of them all, as the college
football commentators once said about the Rose Bowl happening on
New Year's Day, and it was the first one that
happened since the horrific assassination of my friend, of our friend,
Charlie Kirk. And the conference began on a poignance. Note
you had, you had Erica Kirk, his widow. And by
the way, they really are not enough amazing things to
(01:28):
say about Erica Kirk either, I mean, just extraordinary from
her very first remarks two days after the assassination. I
remember she did it from the Charlie Kirk Show studio
there in the broader Phoenix area. I actually was out
in Las Vegas speaking at a conference, and I remember
watching that in my hotel room. Was on a Friday,
(01:49):
early evening, so it was just before I was ready
to wind down for the Jewish Sabbath, a Sabbath which
Charlie Kirk also observed, by the way, per his new book.
And I was watching this Erica Kirks beaching just totally
blown away. And I've just been continue blown away by
Erica time and time again. And she did not disappoint
in her opening remarks on Thursday. Now, the very first
speech that came after Erica Kirk's introductory comments, as we
(02:12):
discussed on Friday show, was Ben Shapiro. And Ben Shapiro's
speech really launched this conference into a different direction, I
think than many had necessarily predicted it a go. I'm
not at all saying that it was a bad direction.
By the way, I've known Ben for a very very
long time. I more or less knew what Ben was
going to say this conference, and I'm really happy, frankly,
(02:33):
that he did it. And we're not going to go
on a great length, but long story short, what Ben
Shapiro did in his conference tone setting speech at AMFS
twenty twenty five was he essentially said that, yes, the
radical Left remains this massive, gargantuan threat, and the radical
Left is indeed the number one threat facing the United States, period,
(02:55):
full stop, end of story. No one denies that I
fight the radical left every single.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Day my life.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Presumably, if you're watching this show, then you also finding
the radical left. These people are moral, philosophical, intellectual monsters.
They have a violent streak. The left has had a
violent streak since the Jacobins of the French Revolution almost
two and a half centuries ago. They are increasing resorting
to political violence. Harvard University pull Over the Summer is
showing that over thirty percent of Harvard students say the
(03:23):
political violence can be acceptable, perhaps even necessary, to deprive
certain conservatives like me and you of being able to
speak publicly on the issues. I mean, the left is
monstrous in its current generation. I have nothing but the
absolute worst thing to say about the radical lefts.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
I'm sure Benda's.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Too, for what it's worth, but he decided to focus
his speech on the rot within the house, and he
was calling out names. He was not mincing words. He
was calling out people like Candice Owns perhaps above all,
like Tucker Carlson as well other people who found themselves
in Ben's crossing Prris on Thursday evening, where Steve Bennon
(04:01):
and Making.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Kelly as well.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
So this set the tone for this for this conference
because it was the first speech and it was a
pretty powerful speech and there were a lot of raucous
applause lines, and there were a lot of eyeballs there
because it was just after Erica Kirk opens the conference there,
so we had a series of individuals over the weekend
then who were responding to this speech, ultimately culminating in
(04:25):
a Vice President Jade Vance's capstone remarks at an FS
twenty twenty five coming on Sunday. Now, the first thing
to note is that there's been a lot of debate
over the extent to which Ben's comments were helpful, whether
this was the right venue for that. I've seen a
lot of folks say that, oh, we know, Charlie Kirk
(04:46):
stood for nothing if not free speech. To the notion
that we are criticizing others within the tent, you know, again,
whole decide what the tent actually is, right, That's kind
of the whole argument there. But if I've seen a
lot of folks say that, oh, this is this never
would have passed muster with Charlie Kirk, I'm not entirely
sure that that is right, which I will elaborate on
here momentarily. But another man who thinks that it is
not necessarily right is Scott Jennings. Scott Jennings are our
(05:09):
fellow show host here at the Sale and Podcast Network,
also Scott Jennings of CNN. Scott Jennings had a very
different take than what I just presented. When it comes
to Benjapiro's conference opening speech, go ahead and take a
listen or watch Scott Jennings.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
I don't personally like all this in fighting myself, but
on the issue of Israel, and on the issue of
whether we're going to platform anti semitism or platform holocaust deniers,
I know where I am, and that is we're a
political party, not a sponge, and we don't have to
soak up everything that oozes in.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Under the door.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
How do you, I mean, what the Candizone thing that
you mentioned. I mean, so I'm Megan Kelly, there, so
Steve Benn and there are other figures essentially siding with
candaz Owan's right over Ben Shapiro.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
No why, I don't know. It's somewhat complicated to me
with these personalities and their interplay. I know this platforming
and absorbing hateful ideologies and conspiracy theories, especially regarding Charlie's murder,
(06:10):
are the opposite of helpful and certainly the opposite of
what I would consider it to be in good taste,
good form.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
Okay, So towards the end, there's Scott talking about really
he's not naming her, my name. He's talking about Cantons
owns and these outrageous conspiracy theories that have happened since
Charlie's horrific assassination, Those conspiracy theories that are implicating people
like me, that are inlaying people like the turning Point
USA staffer is tragically, that are implicating people like Erica
Kirk as well, Which is what makes Megan Kelly, among others,
(06:38):
so cowardly for feeling to take a stand between this
grieving widow and mother of two young children and this
unhinged Nazi esque conspiracist loanbag there now, towards the beginning
of Scot's remarks that you just heard he's talking a
little bit about about Israel. To me, this is a misconception.
This debate is not about Israel. How many times to
(07:00):
the word Israel come out of Ben Shapiro's mouth in
his conference opening speech thurs the night ready for this
zero Now, there was one questionnaire who was talking about
the USS liberty.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
We'll not get into that.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
It was an unfortunate accident of the Israeli military mistaking
and American vessel for an Egyptian vessel friendly fire. Terrible
story from the nineteen sixties seven War, almost sixty years ago,
a lot of anti Semitic conspirats, as to bring it
up to this day, that was the only time that
the word Israel came out of Ben Shapiro's mouth. So
this conversation, more generally speaking, is actually really not about Israel.
(07:34):
In fact, I actually was just I was just given
access to I was made privy to a poll just
this morning of the Anthes twenty twenty five conference attendees,
and they basically asked a lot of the attendees. They
are questions on a host of issues there. Now, just
for context, when I debated Dave Smith at the Student
(07:55):
National Summit Turning Point conference back in July, the one
in Tampa, Florida, there I was gen similar data from
the Turning Point USA leaders as well, and they actually
did ask the Israel question, pro Israel not pro Israel.
Seventy three percent said pro Israel back in July. So now,
according to the data that I've just been given, this
is internal, internal data, so I can't necessarily reveal who's
(08:16):
shared with you or anything like that. These are the
am Fast twenty twenty five attendees, which best describes your
view of Israel, fifty three point four percent says one ally.
Of many thirty three point three percent says America's top
ally ally, only thirteen point three percent say not an ally.
So this is basically an eighty seven to thirteen issue,
(08:38):
which makes sense based in the fact that, well, among others,
Ben Shapiro's speech was heavily applaud and Tucker Carlson's was nuts.
But this is this is part of the deliberate misinformation operation.
I'm definitely not saying Scot Jennings say, Scott Jennings is
absolutely amazing, but this broader notion that Israel is the
(08:59):
divide factor here, I mean, what pulling are the folks
who think that it is? What exactly are you guys
looking at there? I don't understand this eighty seven to
seventeen issue on an FS twenty twenty five tens. But
by the way, again, that's difference just from this two
natter summone over the summers. Charlie Kirk was long of
the opinion that after the war and Gaza ends, a
(09:21):
lot of this sentiment, even among the younger conservatives whose
views have been the subject of such intense debates. Charlie
thought that after the war and God was over, that
a lot of this would revert to medium and then
come back to normal there. And sure enough it seems
like it has. But I want to emphasize again that
the conversation is not about that. The conversation is about
are we allowing anti American, anti Western civilization lunacy into
(09:47):
this movement? The question, in many ways is what is
the movement in.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
The first place.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
As we've said time and time again on this show,
it is a true that if you seek to welcome
in all views in the conservative marketplace of ideas, literally
all views, then paradoxically, ironically, you are actually not conserving
anything at all. If you seek to conserve everything, then
you're actually conserving nothing whatsoever. Simultaneously, it should be obvious,
(10:18):
it should be self evident that there are some views
that are so beyond the pale that we can demonstrably
clearly your refutably say that view, and that individual, because
he or she holds that of you dearly and sincerely,
is not part of the movement. If you support a
(10:38):
taxpayer funded chemical castration, general mutilation for confused kid the gardeners,
to take a very extreme example, get the heck out, buddy,
You're not part of this movement. Sayonara bye, no way,
no way in hell. You support abortion up to the
eighth ninth month of God like the philosopher Peter Singer,
(11:02):
this attlebrans leftist at prince Ing University who supports quote
unquote post birth abortion, akine fanticide, Get the heck out
of here. You are not part of this movement. Once
upon a time there was similar consensus that if you
are an overt racist, you are an overt anti Semite,
(11:25):
an overt anti Christian bigot, that you were not part
of the movement either. That's essentially more or less half
of what Ben and many of us have been asserting
and preaching and trying to do. We are trying to
save the right, trying to save the movement by preventing
(11:47):
it from being absorbed, subjugating, destroyed by a pernicious all
hands on deck brain rots up, a brain rots operation
by pernicious cynical commons. People someone whom have large megaphones
and large newsletters subscriber bases, who are deliberately, oftentimes trying
(12:10):
to make you stupid. And they're trying to make you
stupid because they think that by making you stupid that
they are going to gain market share. They think you're dumb,
and frankly, they seem to think that they're dumb as well.
But the responsibility of those of us who are privileged
to have some sort of medium or media of addressing
(12:34):
are fellow Americans, whether it's a microphone, a keyboard, to
publish columns, op ense newsletters, whether it's a camera, whatever
it is these days, anyone who has a social media
and a smartphone, basically you're essentially you have a platform.
Right So those of us who have platforms that engage
in the public contestation of ideas, it is not our
responsibility to rot your brain. On the contrary, it is
(12:58):
our responsibility to do the opposite, Not to enervate your
mental capacities, but to elevate them, to make you better informed,
to make you smarter and wiser, to have a greater
intellectual and philosophical grounding, to be able then to deduce
and to reach your own conclusions in a logical fashion.
(13:22):
Sometimes those inclusions might not agree with those of us
who have the platform in the first place, and that's
okay as long as you have the correct tools and
the correct modes of analysis in order to reason, but
unhinged conspiracism, the likes of which we hear from Candae Elements.
(13:42):
Tucker Carlson recently had this nine to eleven series where
he's seemingly asking a lot of questions about nine to
eleven Trutherism. How exactly is that part of our movement?
How exactly is that part of our movement? I just
understand it, And there are a lot of folks still
doubling down that that it is. Frankly, so for instance,
(14:06):
go ahead and go ahead to take a listen to it,
or watch Donald Trump Junior at AMFS twenty twenty five.
Speaker 5 (14:12):
What binds us together, what matters more than the disagreements,
is the ability to have that discourse. The real enemy
it's not Steve Bannon or Tucker Carlson or Ben Shapiro.
It's the radical left that murdered Charlie and celebrated it
on a daily basis.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
Okay, so again, there's a few things going on here,
some of which are true, some of which are not.
The biggest enemy, absolutely is the radical left. As we
spend the vanced majority of our show day and day
out explaining these people are trying to trans your kids.
They are trying to open the borders. They're trying to
destroy historical America. They're trying to uproot your religion and
(14:54):
your morals and your values out of the public speare
are trying to abolish the market economy, trying to pack
the Supreme Court. Polish to you a Senate about the
electoral college.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Need I go on?
Speaker 1 (15:04):
They are the threat Donald Trump Junior, you are a
thousand percent correct on that, congratulations. But if the right
is going to take the fight to the left, we
actually have to know what we stand for. And when
you welcome in everything, you don't actually stand for anything.
(15:29):
Delineations borders, some sense of affirmative positive standing for something,
not just against something. That is a sinaqon. No, it
is a necessary condition. You have to have it for
a political movement to be viable. Some things, by definition
are in, some are out. By the way, how do
(15:52):
I know that among other things? Well, one's just common sense.
Must have portnly too. Do you know who agreed with
me on that? Charlie Kirk, the individual who gave Charlie Kirk,
who caused him more pain and suffering in his entire
adult lifetime running Turning On USA him and his is
now grieving widow, Erica. The individu would cause them. I
(16:15):
would argue more pain suffering than anyone else. Nick Flinn
does someone who There were myriad videos on YouTube, on
the internets, on the Instagram meals. You can go chat
and check them out of what does getting the shouting
matches with Turning Points staffers. Over the years, he was
repeatedly denied entrance to the conferences. He would shout with
(16:36):
the megaphone outside. Go ahead and watch the clips of
Charlie and how angry he was at Flentis. Just in
early September, this must have been a week week and
a half before the horrific assassination in Utah. My friend
and colleague here at the Salem Podcast Network, Denesh JASUSA,
agreed to debate. Nick finnd Does and Alex Jones hosted debate,
(16:59):
and Charlie was livid. He was livid at Dnesh for
doing that. He personally encouraged me, said, Josh, you should
take out your frustrations with Denesh. Tell how you feel
as well. I didn't do it. I thought the Danesh
actually really handled front as quite well. I thought that
Denesh did a great job actually, but Charlie did not
think that when this should be given, that didn't need
(17:21):
a platform. He absolutely believed in the nature of a
coalition and line drun I mentioned the USS liberty, this
conspiracy theory that Israel directly attacked an American ship and
it wasn't just friendly fire, as tragedy has happened all
throughout military history for thousands of years. Well, there's another
clip that was watching over the weekend of Charlie himself
(17:43):
facing a questionner presenting this USS liberty conspiracy theory and
Charlie shouting it down, saying, get the microphone away, I'm
not dealing with this.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
This is garbage.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
So he knew how to how to patrol. We disagreed.
Sometimes people disagree on these things.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
That's fine.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
I don't think Charlie, towards the end of his life
saw what Tucker tragedy has become since Fox News fired him.
At the same time, Charlie would have been positively aghast
at Tucker Carlson having the Flentes on his show for
an act of glazing at best, performative fillatio at worst.
(18:23):
A week or a month and a half after Charlie's assassination.
So it's really for that reason above all that I
found myself not fully agreeing with Vice President Vance and
his conference closing remarks.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Go ahead and watch Vice President Jade Vance.
Speaker 6 (18:37):
I didn't bring a list of conservatives to denounce or
to d platform, and I don't really care if some
people out there.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
I'm sure we'll have the fake news media.
Speaker 6 (18:47):
Denounce me after this speech. But let me just say
the best way to honor Charlie is that none of
us here should be doing something after Charlie's death that
he himself used to do in life.
Speaker 7 (19:02):
He invited all of us here. Charlie invited all of
us here.
Speaker 6 (19:12):
For a reason because he believed that each of us,
all of us had something worth saying, and he trusted
all of you to make your own judgment.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Okay, so a lot of this is is definitely true.
There's not a single person on that stage who Charlie
Kirk did not want to be there, by the way,
I've seen some of the Tucker crowd, the Tucker apologists say, oh,
Charlie Kirk didn't want bench appear to be their bs.
How he knows bs, because I literally was involved. I
(19:46):
taught to Charlie frequently in the final year or two
of his life, as we discussed a great length on
this show, and I pressed him. I said, Charlie, if
you're going to keep on inviting Tucker to your conferences
after he's going further and further and further down the
rabbit hole at the barest of bare minimum, what you
really really really ought to do is at least give
(20:07):
the most prominent spokesperson for the opposing world's view. I
would frankly argue to the world, you're just a basic
human decency and that's Benjapiro. You should at least give
him equal airtime. And Charlie agree with that. So that's
that's ridiculous now it is. It is also true that
Charlie agreed that all these other individuals who's who spoke,
So the Vice President's correct on that.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
But I'm telling.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
You, Charlie was so upset with Denise Jesuza for even
deigning to debate Nick Flintes if he had seen this
interview that Tucker gave to Flintest, the stuff that Flintists
said about Charlie Kirk and turning point USA, some which
Ben Shapiro quoted in his conference opening speech at Thursday,
(20:53):
disgusting stuff, horrific stuff. I think Charlie would have been
having some second thoughts about Tucker Carlson. One thing that
Charlie was definitely proponents of was the notion that Western
civilization is objectively good, that has given us manifold plentiful,
(21:15):
abundant blessings, and that we should fight to preserve it
and pass down from one generation to the next each
and every day of our lives. The question that he
would have asked, indeed the question that he did ask
was are you on team civilization or are you not
a lot of these folks, it seems to me, are
(21:37):
not necessarily part of team civilization when you go about
promoting all sorts of Kremlin Russian talking points. I'm not
saying you can't criticize lawmir As Lensky got Chrism all
the time, actually, but so when you go about promoting
a lot of Kremlin talking points, when you give fawning
puff interviews, stick a fanta interviews to the president of Iran,
(22:00):
when you say that Nicholas Modoro is actually the most
conservative leader in South America, when you announce you're buying
a house in Katar. What I mean the financial in
ideological home in the Muslim brotherhood. You say you're buying
a house there. You give multiple fawning interviews to the
(22:20):
Amir of Katar, including out the Doha Forum junket, I'm
sorry what I mean. In Tucker's speech Thursday night, he
got in his moral high horse to lecture.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Republicans, not about.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Anti Semitism or anti Christian bigotry or anti Americanism. He
lectured Republicans about Islamophobia. Folks, have you ever met a
conservative who talks about the alleged threat of Islamophobia? A term,
by the way, that was literally made up by a
left wing British academic in the late teen late nineteen
(22:59):
ninety He's right around the time that the UK was
being invaded and overrun by Muslim migrants. Have you ever
seen it or heard a conservative talk about islamaphobia? You
know who is not a fan of the islamaphobia talk?
Oh yeah, Charlie Kirk.
Speaker 8 (23:17):
That guy.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
How many times the final year or two his life
did Charlie say over and over again that Islam and
Western civilization are not compatible. Another thing that we hit
here frequently on this show.
Speaker 6 (23:28):
They're not.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
Yes, you can have individual Muslims that assimilate just fine,
but categorically speaking at the level, at the abstract level
of categories, not the specific ad hoc level of individual
human beings, Islam and Western civilization categorically incompatible. It was
the issue that Charlie was arguably hitting hardest in the
final year or two of his entire life at the
(23:53):
now somewhat infamous Hampton's Retreat, infamous for Bes, conspiratorial, candidt
oons reas, but it was a probably nice retreat. I
was there thirty five to forty people early August. There
were four or five panels. The very first panel, Charlie
takes the mic and just has kind of like an
open conversation that he preside over on the question what
(24:14):
is an American? With the backdrop of the then impending
election or so it seemed to neviabillion so it thus
far has now been proven to be the election of
Zoram Mamdani. The question he was asking really is can
this guy really ever be an American? Yeah, he's a naturally,
I said his saily. He's born in Uganda. He hops
he holds all sorts of anti American anti Western civilizational views.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Kenny being an American? Is that as Lamophobia? According to
Tucker Carlson, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
I don't know. But if you're gonna take the fight
to the left, which we all want to do, they
need a better stand for something and trying to appeal
emotionally to Islamophobia, ain't it. I'm trying to reach this
thirteen percent of the Anfes audience, probably an even smaller
(25:06):
percentage of the broader Republican Party base, that thing that
the Jews are not allies or Israel's not allies? What
are you doing? But like, what polling are you looking at?
And how much of this is just foreign astroturfed? We
spoke a couple weeks ago about this new study from NCRI,
the New Contagion Research Institute, showing them a lot of
(25:28):
Nick funds is online supporters are actually foreign bot farms
in places like Pakistan and Nigeria. Is that what the
Tuckers and Cannons of the world are looking at A lot,
I personally in the Tucker's looking at a lot of
Katari cash for what it's worth. But okay, among other things,
are they looking at a lot of algorithms that are
worked by bot farms. The right has to sort itself
(25:52):
out if we're going to take the fight to the left.
So I don't agree with this general sentiment that we
are in case of drawing delineations, of drawing boundaries, of
making some assessments to what is in and what is out. Again,
Charlie was the number one example. Nick Funds for him
was totally unequivocally out. The Gropers were totally unequivocally out.
(26:16):
And this is how we're honoring his legacy three months
later by welcoming a lot of their supporters in for
just a broader debate and pretending that this is somehow
about Israel, when again it's really not. Making Kelly, by
the way, another one of these clowns, these jokers, making
(26:37):
it in her mind all about Israel, when it's is
really not. Here is Megan Kelly on not just Ben Shapiro,
but also on Barry. Weis publishing Ben Shapiro's remarks at
her publication the Free Press, go ahead and watch making
Kelly here.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
So it's a similar situation with Barry.
Speaker 8 (26:51):
None of this is about them calling me out for
anything I've said or having said or it's certainly not
about Erica Kirk has been tried to make it sound
less Night gets about Israel. Those two are very pro
ardent Israel activists, which is fine, but they don't get
to dictate how the rest of us feel about Israel
or what we do with respect to our friends and
(27:11):
our friends' opinions on Israel.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Okay, Megan, you're wrong. You're wrong again again. This is
now a common tactic. I saw the Vice President in
this interview that he gave just yesterday on Sunday with
Sorbo Marii of Unheard. I saw the Vice President basically
say that this notion, the NIF one does, has a
huge following, is being over exaggerated by folks and typically
(27:34):
over exaggerated by in the Vice President's view, by Pro Israel.
Folks just don't want to have that conversation. That's basically
a Megan is now saying too, that all this is
just a manufactured controversy by team Pro Israel because they
want to hold the lawn, and nothing could be further
from the truth. You know, my own views the topic
(27:57):
are actually more nuanced than I typically get it for
we tease this out at this two and action summons
debate stage. I've been calling for the US to phase outs,
not cut off, but phase out foreign aids is well.
I've been calling for that for over a decade. I
don't particularly like foreign eight. I think it's generally bad
(28:18):
and deeply corrupt and venal and counterproductive. I have all
sorts of heteronox views on this stuff, but as a
general rule, holding aside my personal views, foreign policy conversation
is always fair game Americans that have been debating foreign
policy since the origins of the republic, says the XYZ.
(28:38):
A fair in the late seventeen nineties, says the first
and second Barbary Wars. He has the Muslim pirates off
the coast northern Africa, and they're early eighteen hundreds. No
one is afraid of a foreign policy conversation. In fact,
I actually love foreign policy. I'm of a forign polity nerd.
Let's have the conversation. I will gladly partake as much
as y'all want me to.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Let's do it.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
The conversation rather that some of us are are having
now is the extent to which genuine bigotry.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
Is allowed.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
So, for instance, there's this Sudanese Hitler fan who lives
here in South Florida. He goes to the name of
Myron Gaines. His real name is something a lot more
Sudee sounding dude podcasts and self describes as a Hitler fan.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
He's tweet about Hitler a lot. He's a fan.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
So, after initial reports showed that quote unquote Myron Gaines
was being denied from an fswey twenty five, eventually he
manages to finagle his way into the room, and he's
wearing a sweatshirt with the sesame street character Cookie Monster
about cookies, and it's a clear reference to a somewhat
(30:00):
infamous video the Nick Flintes gave about six years ago,
questioning the six million Jews sore in the Holocaust by
analogizing them to Cookie Monster baking cookies. So, quote unquote
Myron Gaines from Sudan gets his way into this conference
with this sweatshirt mocking victims of the Holocaust, and some
(30:25):
various other people, maybe because they just didn't realize what's happening,
or maybe they were deliberately trying to get clicks and attention,
took photos with him. So the girl called herself Emily
Saves America is dimly from Los Angeles. Absolute moron who
was at that hand to the treat She did a photo,
Jack bisobaokho have known for years and Fortune did a photo.
(30:47):
The conversation is like, is this good? I mean, even
holding aside the brazen immorality of this. How stupid all
this looks? How bad this looks? Can we talk just
about the politics.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
For a second?
Speaker 8 (30:59):
Here?
Speaker 1 (31:01):
You know turning Point now Erica Kirk announcing in her
intro marks that she wants Turning Point to now become
a vehicle for Jdvans twenty twenty eight. Okay, look, I'm
not a campaign financial lawyer, but I guess I will say,
as a lawyer in general, might be some thigny legal
erathical issues between the difference between a non for profit
five to one C three and a political action vehicle
(31:22):
five to one C four. After all, this is not
a turning point action conference. It was a turning point.
He was a conference. Okay, well, I don't do campaign
financial I'll let the legal specialists handle that. But if
Turning Points is among the things that Charlie wanted to
be and made it a vehicle for conservative political activism
for getting MAGA Republicans elected to office. Then is this
(31:46):
politically beneficial to welcome the Candice Owan's conspiracism, to welcome
those who would give fawning, sick of anting interviews to
Charlie's arch nemesis Nick Flentes, to welcome all that in,
to welcome people on the stage who say that you
shouldn't be in a zwamaphobe?
Speaker 2 (32:07):
Is this healthy?
Speaker 7 (32:11):
No?
Speaker 1 (32:13):
Again, there were a lot of other people. Wasn't just Benjapiered.
There are a lot of people of this conference.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
I was there this year.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
There were a lot of folks' conference, Steve Dace, Alibets,
Ducky Brandon Tatum, all wonderful human beings, and there were
a lot of folks that represented on Team Sanity. But
the role of a leader is not to follow, but
to lead. The role of a leader of a movement
(32:39):
or of anything is not to just lick your finger
and put your finger in the wind and see which
way the polls are going, which way there trends are bowing.
Especially in the broader game of politics, you ought to
have principle and conviction. We can amically disagree as to
the final details within a coalition as to what those
principles and policies of worth ought to be. That's perfectly fine, concerns.
(33:02):
I'm doing it for a very very very long time.
The paliocons, the neocons that this to that fine, totally
fair game. But you have to lead partially by saying
what's not in the fold. So anyway, just a lot
of stuff from anfest over the weekend. I enjoyed a
(33:25):
lot of the remarks that I saw there on TV,
and I guess I will kind of conclude with this,
as I was saying earlier, I am privileged to have
this microphone talk to you every day, and those of
us who are privileged to be able to communicate every day,
whether it's writing or speaking or this or that there.
As Ben said his speech, we do absolutely have an obligation.
(33:47):
We absolutely then do have an obligation to not rot
your brain and to not make you stupider. There are
a lot of folks out there that are engaged in
this broader brain rot operation. That's not what we are
here to do. If we are actually doing our job,
then we are trying to lift you up.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
And tell you.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
The truth as you ought to think of it, the
principles as you ought to think of it, and in
this case, the day and day out of late native
of our show is very very simple. The principles that
we stand for are the principles of Western civilization, our show,
our community, you the.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
Listener, you the viewer.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
We are bulwarks against our enemies, foreign and domestic. As
you think of the Constitution describes it. Our enemies are
the dei wokarate. They are the islness, they are the
global neoliberals, the universalists, the modern pagans.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
We have a lot of them.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
Is frankly, we take Solis knowing that God is on ourselves,
the Biblical inheritance is on our side. That's what forged
Western civilization, That's what forged the United States of America,
and God willing that's going to keep this, this experiment
in order liberty going from one generation to the next
(35:19):
for many, many generations, many centuries to come. But the
left is not going to save this country. They're trying actively,
day in, day out to tear it down, destroy it.
If America is going to be saved, it's going to
come from the right, and is not going to come
from a right. That is confused as to who was
the good guy in World War Two, as to whether
(35:42):
or not the United States should have actually sided with
Hitler and spread fascism throughout the European continent. Those are
not the kind of quote unquote just asking questions that
are going to make the right and the certain movements
a healthy vehicle. Those are not the kind of antics
and tactics and just asking quesh and shenanigans that are
going to pull over independent voters, moderate voters, the voters
(36:07):
who don't necessarily vote for someone to vote against someone.
Twenty sixteen is a great example this. By the way,
there's a lot of truth in notion that Donald Trump's
positive agenda when it comes to realism in trade and
immigration foreign policy carry the day, partially, especially in the
russ Belt in the Midwest, the Blue Wall States was
consum Michigan, Pensylvania's a lot truth to that. But there's
an even greater truth to the fact that Hillary Clinton
(36:30):
was less popular than venereal disease when the least popular
candidate's an American presidential history. So for that kind of voter,
the voter who was voting not necessarily for but against,
do you want to give the against voter even more
ammunition to vote against by welcoming in Nazi sympathizers, by
(36:51):
giving credence to the left long standing caricature of the
rights which was false until like arguably yesterday, as a
bunch of no, it's still broadly false, to be clear.
But that's whe're debating now. Is the extent to which
they should be welcomed in. Do you want to give
them ammunition? Are you trying to blow up this coalition
(37:12):
that Donald Trump built, this multi ethnic working class coalition,
these historical gains with young people of Hispanics, black men,
going to blow it all up?
Speaker 8 (37:21):
For what.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
To look based in the eyes of a bunch of
twenty something Twitter users, is that the.
Speaker 5 (37:31):
Goal here.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
Are we trying to win elections?
Speaker 1 (37:37):
I was under the understanding what I've always signed up
for is that we're in this to advance ideas, because
ideas then translate into policy and law, which translated into
real things the matter for your day to day life,
all oriented towards the preservation and the saving of the
United States of America and Western civilization. That calls for leadership.
(37:58):
It doesn't call for blanking and glazing over, not just
petty differences, but really, really, really big differences. So it's
whether Nazis are okay or not. To conserve means to delineate,
to preserve, means to draw boundaries. Charlie Kirk understood that.
(38:21):
I think I understand that as well. I hope that
more leaders come to understand that as well, especially in
the aftermath now of Van Fast twenty twenty five. As
a reminder, folks, you can always listener watch our show.
We're available at Newsweek's YouTube page as well as via
the Salem Newshell.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
Make sure to leave us that five star review. We
always do appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
I'm Joshamer, who enjoyed says episode of The Josh Shammers Show.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
The Josh a Hammer Show is a member of the
Trust Project.
Well, I helped you out a great weekend, and just
like that, Amfest twenty twenty five Turning Point USA's big
annual conference out in Phoenix, Arizona. It is in the books.
What a lively conference it was. What does it mean?
Where do we stand right now when it comes to
the right, when it comes to the conservative movement. There's
been a lot of chatter about this. You've heard a
lot of different perspectives on this very question at the
(00:22):
conference itself. I've got my own thoughts in today's episode
of The Josh Hammer Show. So on Friday's show we
covered a little bit the opening night of the Amfest conferences.
Conference began on Thursday, again Turning Point USA's big annual conference.
This was really Charlie Kirk's super Bowl, he referred to
(00:43):
it as and it is the first Amfest without without
Charlie Kirks. The Turning Point holds multiple big events. They
host a lot of conferences. Among their biggest conferences are
this Amfest conference, their Student Action Summit, which is typically
in Tampa, Florida. That is the event where I debated
Dave Smith, the liberty bearing comedian, on foreign policy and
so forth.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Just over the summer in July. So this was anfes.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
This is the granddaddy of them all, as the college
football commentators once said about the Rose Bowl happening on
New Year's Day, and it was the first one that
happened since the horrific assassination of my friend, of our friend,
Charlie Kirk. And the conference began on a poignance. Note
you had, you had Erica Kirk, his widow. And by
the way, they really are not enough amazing things to
(01:28):
say about Erica Kirk either, I mean, just extraordinary from
her very first remarks two days after the assassination. I
remember she did it from the Charlie Kirk Show studio
there in the broader Phoenix area. I actually was out
in Las Vegas speaking at a conference, and I remember
watching that in my hotel room. Was on a Friday,
(01:49):
early evening, so it was just before I was ready
to wind down for the Jewish Sabbath, a Sabbath which
Charlie Kirk also observed, by the way, per his new book.
And I was watching this Erica Kirks beaching just totally
blown away. And I've just been continue blown away by
Erica time and time again. And she did not disappoint
in her opening remarks on Thursday. Now, the very first
speech that came after Erica Kirk's introductory comments, as we
(02:12):
discussed on Friday show, was Ben Shapiro. And Ben Shapiro's
speech really launched this conference into a different direction, I
think than many had necessarily predicted it a go. I'm
not at all saying that it was a bad direction.
By the way, I've known Ben for a very very
long time. I more or less knew what Ben was
going to say this conference, and I'm really happy, frankly,
(02:33):
that he did it. And we're not going to go
on a great length, but long story short, what Ben
Shapiro did in his conference tone setting speech at AMFS
twenty twenty five was he essentially said that, yes, the
radical Left remains this massive, gargantuan threat, and the radical
Left is indeed the number one threat facing the United States, period,
(02:55):
full stop, end of story. No one denies that I
fight the radical left every single.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Day my life.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Presumably, if you're watching this show, then you also finding
the radical left. These people are moral, philosophical, intellectual monsters.
They have a violent streak. The left has had a
violent streak since the Jacobins of the French Revolution almost
two and a half centuries ago. They are increasing resorting
to political violence. Harvard University pull Over the Summer is
showing that over thirty percent of Harvard students say the
(03:23):
political violence can be acceptable, perhaps even necessary, to deprive
certain conservatives like me and you of being able to
speak publicly on the issues. I mean, the left is
monstrous in its current generation. I have nothing but the
absolute worst thing to say about the radical lefts.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
I'm sure Benda's.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Too, for what it's worth, but he decided to focus
his speech on the rot within the house, and he
was calling out names. He was not mincing words. He
was calling out people like Candice Owns perhaps above all,
like Tucker Carlson as well other people who found themselves
in Ben's crossing Prris on Thursday evening, where Steve Bennon
(04:01):
and Making.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Kelly as well.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
So this set the tone for this for this conference
because it was the first speech and it was a
pretty powerful speech and there were a lot of raucous
applause lines, and there were a lot of eyeballs there
because it was just after Erica Kirk opens the conference there,
so we had a series of individuals over the weekend
then who were responding to this speech, ultimately culminating in
(04:25):
a Vice President Jade Vance's capstone remarks at an FS
twenty twenty five coming on Sunday. Now, the first thing
to note is that there's been a lot of debate
over the extent to which Ben's comments were helpful, whether
this was the right venue for that. I've seen a
lot of folks say that, oh, we know, Charlie Kirk
(04:46):
stood for nothing if not free speech. To the notion
that we are criticizing others within the tent, you know, again,
whole decide what the tent actually is, right, That's kind
of the whole argument there. But if I've seen a
lot of folks say that, oh, this is this never
would have passed muster with Charlie Kirk, I'm not entirely
sure that that is right, which I will elaborate on
here momentarily. But another man who thinks that it is
not necessarily right is Scott Jennings. Scott Jennings are our
(05:09):
fellow show host here at the Sale and Podcast Network,
also Scott Jennings of CNN. Scott Jennings had a very
different take than what I just presented. When it comes
to Benjapiro's conference opening speech, go ahead and take a
listen or watch Scott Jennings.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
I don't personally like all this in fighting myself, but
on the issue of Israel, and on the issue of
whether we're going to platform anti semitism or platform holocaust deniers,
I know where I am, and that is we're a
political party, not a sponge, and we don't have to
soak up everything that oozes in.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Under the door.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
How do you, I mean, what the Candizone thing that
you mentioned. I mean, so I'm Megan Kelly, there, so
Steve Benn and there are other figures essentially siding with
candaz Owan's right over Ben Shapiro.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
No why, I don't know. It's somewhat complicated to me
with these personalities and their interplay. I know this platforming
and absorbing hateful ideologies and conspiracy theories, especially regarding Charlie's murder,
(06:10):
are the opposite of helpful and certainly the opposite of
what I would consider it to be in good taste,
good form.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
Okay, So towards the end, there's Scott talking about really
he's not naming her, my name. He's talking about Cantons
owns and these outrageous conspiracy theories that have happened since
Charlie's horrific assassination, Those conspiracy theories that are implicating people
like me, that are inlaying people like the turning Point
USA staffer is tragically, that are implicating people like Erica
Kirk as well, Which is what makes Megan Kelly, among others,
(06:38):
so cowardly for feeling to take a stand between this
grieving widow and mother of two young children and this
unhinged Nazi esque conspiracist loanbag there now, towards the beginning
of Scot's remarks that you just heard he's talking a
little bit about about Israel. To me, this is a misconception.
This debate is not about Israel. How many times to
(07:00):
the word Israel come out of Ben Shapiro's mouth in
his conference opening speech thurs the night ready for this
zero Now, there was one questionnaire who was talking about
the USS liberty.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
We'll not get into that.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
It was an unfortunate accident of the Israeli military mistaking
and American vessel for an Egyptian vessel friendly fire. Terrible
story from the nineteen sixties seven War, almost sixty years ago,
a lot of anti Semitic conspirats, as to bring it
up to this day, that was the only time that
the word Israel came out of Ben Shapiro's mouth. So
this conversation, more generally speaking, is actually really not about Israel.
(07:34):
In fact, I actually was just I was just given
access to I was made privy to a poll just
this morning of the Anthes twenty twenty five conference attendees,
and they basically asked a lot of the attendees. They
are questions on a host of issues there. Now, just
for context, when I debated Dave Smith at the Student
(07:55):
National Summit Turning Point conference back in July, the one
in Tampa, Florida, there I was gen similar data from
the Turning Point USA leaders as well, and they actually
did ask the Israel question, pro Israel not pro Israel.
Seventy three percent said pro Israel back in July. So now,
according to the data that I've just been given, this
is internal, internal data, so I can't necessarily reveal who's
(08:16):
shared with you or anything like that. These are the
am Fast twenty twenty five attendees, which best describes your
view of Israel, fifty three point four percent says one ally.
Of many thirty three point three percent says America's top
ally ally, only thirteen point three percent say not an ally.
So this is basically an eighty seven to thirteen issue,
(08:38):
which makes sense based in the fact that, well, among others,
Ben Shapiro's speech was heavily applaud and Tucker Carlson's was nuts.
But this is this is part of the deliberate misinformation operation.
I'm definitely not saying Scot Jennings say, Scott Jennings is
absolutely amazing, but this broader notion that Israel is the
(08:59):
divide factor here, I mean, what pulling are the folks
who think that it is? What exactly are you guys
looking at there? I don't understand this eighty seven to
seventeen issue on an FS twenty twenty five tens. But
by the way, again, that's difference just from this two
natter summone over the summers. Charlie Kirk was long of
the opinion that after the war and Gaza ends, a
(09:21):
lot of this sentiment, even among the younger conservatives whose
views have been the subject of such intense debates. Charlie
thought that after the war and God was over, that
a lot of this would revert to medium and then
come back to normal there. And sure enough it seems
like it has. But I want to emphasize again that
the conversation is not about that. The conversation is about
are we allowing anti American, anti Western civilization lunacy into
(09:47):
this movement? The question, in many ways is what is
the movement in.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
The first place.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
As we've said time and time again on this show,
it is a true that if you seek to welcome
in all views in the conservative marketplace of ideas, literally
all views, then paradoxically, ironically, you are actually not conserving
anything at all. If you seek to conserve everything, then
you're actually conserving nothing whatsoever. Simultaneously, it should be obvious,
(10:18):
it should be self evident that there are some views
that are so beyond the pale that we can demonstrably
clearly your refutably say that view, and that individual, because
he or she holds that of you dearly and sincerely,
is not part of the movement. If you support a
(10:38):
taxpayer funded chemical castration, general mutilation for confused kid the gardeners,
to take a very extreme example, get the heck out, buddy,
You're not part of this movement. Sayonara bye, no way,
no way in hell. You support abortion up to the
eighth ninth month of God like the philosopher Peter Singer,
(11:02):
this attlebrans leftist at prince Ing University who supports quote
unquote post birth abortion, akine fanticide, Get the heck out
of here. You are not part of this movement. Once
upon a time there was similar consensus that if you
are an overt racist, you are an overt anti Semite,
(11:25):
an overt anti Christian bigot, that you were not part
of the movement either. That's essentially more or less half
of what Ben and many of us have been asserting
and preaching and trying to do. We are trying to
save the right, trying to save the movement by preventing
(11:47):
it from being absorbed, subjugating, destroyed by a pernicious all
hands on deck brain rots up, a brain rots operation
by pernicious cynical commons. People someone whom have large megaphones
and large newsletters subscriber bases, who are deliberately, oftentimes trying
(12:10):
to make you stupid. And they're trying to make you
stupid because they think that by making you stupid that
they are going to gain market share. They think you're dumb,
and frankly, they seem to think that they're dumb as well.
But the responsibility of those of us who are privileged
to have some sort of medium or media of addressing
(12:34):
are fellow Americans, whether it's a microphone, a keyboard, to
publish columns, op ense newsletters, whether it's a camera, whatever
it is these days, anyone who has a social media
and a smartphone, basically you're essentially you have a platform.
Right So those of us who have platforms that engage
in the public contestation of ideas, it is not our
responsibility to rot your brain. On the contrary, it is
(12:58):
our responsibility to do the opposite, Not to enervate your
mental capacities, but to elevate them, to make you better informed,
to make you smarter and wiser, to have a greater
intellectual and philosophical grounding, to be able then to deduce
and to reach your own conclusions in a logical fashion.
(13:22):
Sometimes those inclusions might not agree with those of us
who have the platform in the first place, and that's
okay as long as you have the correct tools and
the correct modes of analysis in order to reason, but
unhinged conspiracism, the likes of which we hear from Candae Elements.
(13:42):
Tucker Carlson recently had this nine to eleven series where
he's seemingly asking a lot of questions about nine to
eleven Trutherism. How exactly is that part of our movement?
How exactly is that part of our movement? I just
understand it, And there are a lot of folks still
doubling down that that it is. Frankly, so for instance,
(14:06):
go ahead and go ahead to take a listen to it,
or watch Donald Trump Junior at AMFS twenty twenty five.
Speaker 5 (14:12):
What binds us together, what matters more than the disagreements,
is the ability to have that discourse. The real enemy
it's not Steve Bannon or Tucker Carlson or Ben Shapiro.
It's the radical left that murdered Charlie and celebrated it
on a daily basis.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
Okay, so again, there's a few things going on here,
some of which are true, some of which are not.
The biggest enemy, absolutely is the radical left. As we
spend the vanced majority of our show day and day
out explaining these people are trying to trans your kids.
They are trying to open the borders. They're trying to
destroy historical America. They're trying to uproot your religion and
(14:54):
your morals and your values out of the public speare
are trying to abolish the market economy, trying to pack
the Supreme Court. Polish to you a Senate about the
electoral college.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Need I go on?
Speaker 1 (15:04):
They are the threat Donald Trump Junior, you are a
thousand percent correct on that, congratulations. But if the right
is going to take the fight to the left, we
actually have to know what we stand for. And when
you welcome in everything, you don't actually stand for anything.
(15:29):
Delineations borders, some sense of affirmative positive standing for something,
not just against something. That is a sinaqon. No, it
is a necessary condition. You have to have it for
a political movement to be viable. Some things, by definition
are in, some are out. By the way, how do
(15:52):
I know that among other things? Well, one's just common sense.
Must have portnly too. Do you know who agreed with
me on that? Charlie Kirk, the individual who gave Charlie Kirk,
who caused him more pain and suffering in his entire
adult lifetime running Turning On USA him and his is
now grieving widow, Erica. The individu would cause them. I
(16:15):
would argue more pain suffering than anyone else. Nick Flinn
does someone who There were myriad videos on YouTube, on
the internets, on the Instagram meals. You can go chat
and check them out of what does getting the shouting
matches with Turning Points staffers. Over the years, he was
repeatedly denied entrance to the conferences. He would shout with
(16:36):
the megaphone outside. Go ahead and watch the clips of
Charlie and how angry he was at Flentis. Just in
early September, this must have been a week week and
a half before the horrific assassination in Utah. My friend
and colleague here at the Salem Podcast Network, Denesh JASUSA,
agreed to debate. Nick finnd Does and Alex Jones hosted debate,
(16:59):
and Charlie was livid. He was livid at Dnesh for
doing that. He personally encouraged me, said, Josh, you should
take out your frustrations with Denesh. Tell how you feel
as well. I didn't do it. I thought the Danesh
actually really handled front as quite well. I thought that
Denesh did a great job actually, but Charlie did not
think that when this should be given, that didn't need
(17:21):
a platform. He absolutely believed in the nature of a
coalition and line drun I mentioned the USS liberty, this
conspiracy theory that Israel directly attacked an American ship and
it wasn't just friendly fire, as tragedy has happened all
throughout military history for thousands of years. Well, there's another
clip that was watching over the weekend of Charlie himself
(17:43):
facing a questionner presenting this USS liberty conspiracy theory and
Charlie shouting it down, saying, get the microphone away, I'm
not dealing with this.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
This is garbage.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
So he knew how to how to patrol. We disagreed.
Sometimes people disagree on these things.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
That's fine.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
I don't think Charlie, towards the end of his life
saw what Tucker tragedy has become since Fox News fired him.
At the same time, Charlie would have been positively aghast
at Tucker Carlson having the Flentes on his show for
an act of glazing at best, performative fillatio at worst.
(18:23):
A week or a month and a half after Charlie's assassination.
So it's really for that reason above all that I
found myself not fully agreeing with Vice President Vance and
his conference closing remarks.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Go ahead and watch Vice President Jade Vance.
Speaker 6 (18:37):
I didn't bring a list of conservatives to denounce or
to d platform, and I don't really care if some
people out there.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
I'm sure we'll have the fake news media.
Speaker 6 (18:47):
Denounce me after this speech. But let me just say
the best way to honor Charlie is that none of
us here should be doing something after Charlie's death that
he himself used to do in life.
Speaker 7 (19:02):
He invited all of us here. Charlie invited all of
us here.
Speaker 6 (19:12):
For a reason because he believed that each of us,
all of us had something worth saying, and he trusted
all of you to make your own judgment.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Okay, so a lot of this is is definitely true.
There's not a single person on that stage who Charlie
Kirk did not want to be there, by the way,
I've seen some of the Tucker crowd, the Tucker apologists say, oh,
Charlie Kirk didn't want bench appear to be their bs.
How he knows bs, because I literally was involved. I
(19:46):
taught to Charlie frequently in the final year or two
of his life, as we discussed a great length on
this show, and I pressed him. I said, Charlie, if
you're going to keep on inviting Tucker to your conferences
after he's going further and further and further down the
rabbit hole at the barest of bare minimum, what you
really really really ought to do is at least give
(20:07):
the most prominent spokesperson for the opposing world's view. I
would frankly argue to the world, you're just a basic
human decency and that's Benjapiro. You should at least give
him equal airtime. And Charlie agree with that. So that's
that's ridiculous now it is. It is also true that
Charlie agreed that all these other individuals who's who spoke,
So the Vice President's correct on that.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
But I'm telling.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
You, Charlie was so upset with Denise Jesuza for even
deigning to debate Nick Flintes if he had seen this
interview that Tucker gave to Flintest, the stuff that Flintists
said about Charlie Kirk and turning point USA, some which
Ben Shapiro quoted in his conference opening speech at Thursday,
(20:53):
disgusting stuff, horrific stuff. I think Charlie would have been
having some second thoughts about Tucker Carlson. One thing that
Charlie was definitely proponents of was the notion that Western
civilization is objectively good, that has given us manifold plentiful,
(21:15):
abundant blessings, and that we should fight to preserve it
and pass down from one generation to the next each
and every day of our lives. The question that he
would have asked, indeed the question that he did ask
was are you on team civilization or are you not
a lot of these folks, it seems to me, are
(21:37):
not necessarily part of team civilization when you go about
promoting all sorts of Kremlin Russian talking points. I'm not
saying you can't criticize lawmir As Lensky got Chrism all
the time, actually, but so when you go about promoting
a lot of Kremlin talking points, when you give fawning
puff interviews, stick a fanta interviews to the president of Iran,
(22:00):
when you say that Nicholas Modoro is actually the most
conservative leader in South America, when you announce you're buying
a house in Katar. What I mean the financial in
ideological home in the Muslim brotherhood. You say you're buying
a house there. You give multiple fawning interviews to the
(22:20):
Amir of Katar, including out the Doha Forum junket, I'm
sorry what I mean. In Tucker's speech Thursday night, he
got in his moral high horse to lecture.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Republicans, not about.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Anti Semitism or anti Christian bigotry or anti Americanism. He
lectured Republicans about Islamophobia. Folks, have you ever met a
conservative who talks about the alleged threat of Islamophobia? A term,
by the way, that was literally made up by a
left wing British academic in the late teen late nineteen
(22:59):
ninety He's right around the time that the UK was
being invaded and overrun by Muslim migrants. Have you ever
seen it or heard a conservative talk about islamaphobia? You
know who is not a fan of the islamaphobia talk?
Oh yeah, Charlie Kirk.
Speaker 8 (23:17):
That guy.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
How many times the final year or two his life
did Charlie say over and over again that Islam and
Western civilization are not compatible. Another thing that we hit
here frequently on this show.
Speaker 6 (23:28):
They're not.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
Yes, you can have individual Muslims that assimilate just fine,
but categorically speaking at the level, at the abstract level
of categories, not the specific ad hoc level of individual
human beings, Islam and Western civilization categorically incompatible. It was
the issue that Charlie was arguably hitting hardest in the
final year or two of his entire life at the
(23:53):
now somewhat infamous Hampton's Retreat, infamous for Bes, conspiratorial, candidt
oons reas, but it was a probably nice retreat. I
was there thirty five to forty people early August. There
were four or five panels. The very first panel, Charlie
takes the mic and just has kind of like an
open conversation that he preside over on the question what
(24:14):
is an American? With the backdrop of the then impending
election or so it seemed to neviabillion so it thus
far has now been proven to be the election of
Zoram Mamdani. The question he was asking really is can
this guy really ever be an American? Yeah, he's a naturally,
I said his saily. He's born in Uganda. He hops
he holds all sorts of anti American anti Western civilizational views.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Kenny being an American? Is that as Lamophobia? According to
Tucker Carlson, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
I don't know. But if you're gonna take the fight
to the left, which we all want to do, they
need a better stand for something and trying to appeal
emotionally to Islamophobia, ain't it. I'm trying to reach this
thirteen percent of the Anfes audience, probably an even smaller
(25:06):
percentage of the broader Republican Party base, that thing that
the Jews are not allies or Israel's not allies? What
are you doing? But like, what polling are you looking at?
And how much of this is just foreign astroturfed? We
spoke a couple weeks ago about this new study from NCRI,
the New Contagion Research Institute, showing them a lot of
(25:28):
Nick funds is online supporters are actually foreign bot farms
in places like Pakistan and Nigeria. Is that what the
Tuckers and Cannons of the world are looking at A lot,
I personally in the Tucker's looking at a lot of
Katari cash for what it's worth. But okay, among other things,
are they looking at a lot of algorithms that are
worked by bot farms. The right has to sort itself
(25:52):
out if we're going to take the fight to the left.
So I don't agree with this general sentiment that we
are in case of drawing delineations, of drawing boundaries, of
making some assessments to what is in and what is out. Again,
Charlie was the number one example. Nick Funds for him
was totally unequivocally out. The Gropers were totally unequivocally out.
(26:16):
And this is how we're honoring his legacy three months
later by welcoming a lot of their supporters in for
just a broader debate and pretending that this is somehow
about Israel, when again it's really not. Making Kelly, by
the way, another one of these clowns, these jokers, making
(26:37):
it in her mind all about Israel, when it's is
really not. Here is Megan Kelly on not just Ben Shapiro,
but also on Barry. Weis publishing Ben Shapiro's remarks at
her publication the Free Press, go ahead and watch making
Kelly here.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
So it's a similar situation with Barry.
Speaker 8 (26:51):
None of this is about them calling me out for
anything I've said or having said or it's certainly not
about Erica Kirk has been tried to make it sound
less Night gets about Israel. Those two are very pro
ardent Israel activists, which is fine, but they don't get
to dictate how the rest of us feel about Israel
or what we do with respect to our friends and
(27:11):
our friends' opinions on Israel.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Okay, Megan, you're wrong. You're wrong again again. This is
now a common tactic. I saw the Vice President in
this interview that he gave just yesterday on Sunday with
Sorbo Marii of Unheard. I saw the Vice President basically
say that this notion, the NIF one does, has a
huge following, is being over exaggerated by folks and typically
(27:34):
over exaggerated by in the Vice President's view, by Pro Israel.
Folks just don't want to have that conversation. That's basically
a Megan is now saying too, that all this is
just a manufactured controversy by team Pro Israel because they
want to hold the lawn, and nothing could be further
from the truth. You know, my own views the topic
(27:57):
are actually more nuanced than I typically get it for
we tease this out at this two and action summons
debate stage. I've been calling for the US to phase outs,
not cut off, but phase out foreign aids is well.
I've been calling for that for over a decade. I
don't particularly like foreign eight. I think it's generally bad
(28:18):
and deeply corrupt and venal and counterproductive. I have all
sorts of heteronox views on this stuff, but as a
general rule, holding aside my personal views, foreign policy conversation
is always fair game Americans that have been debating foreign
policy since the origins of the republic, says the XYZ.
(28:38):
A fair in the late seventeen nineties, says the first
and second Barbary Wars. He has the Muslim pirates off
the coast northern Africa, and they're early eighteen hundreds. No
one is afraid of a foreign policy conversation. In fact,
I actually love foreign policy. I'm of a forign polity nerd.
Let's have the conversation. I will gladly partake as much
as y'all want me to.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Let's do it.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
The conversation rather that some of us are are having
now is the extent to which genuine bigotry.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
Is allowed.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
So, for instance, there's this Sudanese Hitler fan who lives
here in South Florida. He goes to the name of
Myron Gaines. His real name is something a lot more
Sudee sounding dude podcasts and self describes as a Hitler fan.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
He's tweet about Hitler a lot. He's a fan.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
So, after initial reports showed that quote unquote Myron Gaines
was being denied from an fswey twenty five, eventually he
manages to finagle his way into the room, and he's
wearing a sweatshirt with the sesame street character Cookie Monster
about cookies, and it's a clear reference to a somewhat
(30:00):
infamous video the Nick Flintes gave about six years ago,
questioning the six million Jews sore in the Holocaust by
analogizing them to Cookie Monster baking cookies. So, quote unquote
Myron Gaines from Sudan gets his way into this conference
with this sweatshirt mocking victims of the Holocaust, and some
(30:25):
various other people, maybe because they just didn't realize what's happening,
or maybe they were deliberately trying to get clicks and attention,
took photos with him. So the girl called herself Emily
Saves America is dimly from Los Angeles. Absolute moron who
was at that hand to the treat She did a photo,
Jack bisobaokho have known for years and Fortune did a photo.
(30:47):
The conversation is like, is this good? I mean, even
holding aside the brazen immorality of this. How stupid all
this looks? How bad this looks? Can we talk just
about the politics.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
For a second?
Speaker 8 (30:59):
Here?
Speaker 1 (31:01):
You know turning Point now Erica Kirk announcing in her
intro marks that she wants Turning Point to now become
a vehicle for Jdvans twenty twenty eight. Okay, look, I'm
not a campaign financial lawyer, but I guess I will say,
as a lawyer in general, might be some thigny legal
erathical issues between the difference between a non for profit
five to one C three and a political action vehicle
(31:22):
five to one C four. After all, this is not
a turning point action conference. It was a turning point.
He was a conference. Okay, well, I don't do campaign
financial I'll let the legal specialists handle that. But if
Turning Points is among the things that Charlie wanted to
be and made it a vehicle for conservative political activism
for getting MAGA Republicans elected to office. Then is this
(31:46):
politically beneficial to welcome the Candice Owan's conspiracism, to welcome
those who would give fawning, sick of anting interviews to
Charlie's arch nemesis Nick Flentes, to welcome all that in,
to welcome people on the stage who say that you
shouldn't be in a zwamaphobe?
Speaker 2 (32:07):
Is this healthy?
Speaker 7 (32:11):
No?
Speaker 1 (32:13):
Again, there were a lot of other people. Wasn't just Benjapiered.
There are a lot of people of this conference.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
I was there this year.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
There were a lot of folks' conference, Steve Dace, Alibets,
Ducky Brandon Tatum, all wonderful human beings, and there were
a lot of folks that represented on Team Sanity. But
the role of a leader is not to follow, but
to lead. The role of a leader of a movement
(32:39):
or of anything is not to just lick your finger
and put your finger in the wind and see which
way the polls are going, which way there trends are bowing.
Especially in the broader game of politics, you ought to
have principle and conviction. We can amically disagree as to
the final details within a coalition as to what those
principles and policies of worth ought to be. That's perfectly fine, concerns.
(33:02):
I'm doing it for a very very very long time.
The paliocons, the neocons that this to that fine, totally
fair game. But you have to lead partially by saying
what's not in the fold. So anyway, just a lot
of stuff from anfest over the weekend. I enjoyed a
(33:25):
lot of the remarks that I saw there on TV,
and I guess I will kind of conclude with this,
as I was saying earlier, I am privileged to have
this microphone talk to you every day, and those of
us who are privileged to be able to communicate every day,
whether it's writing or speaking or this or that there.
As Ben said his speech, we do absolutely have an obligation.
(33:47):
We absolutely then do have an obligation to not rot
your brain and to not make you stupider. There are
a lot of folks out there that are engaged in
this broader brain rot operation. That's not what we are
here to do. If we are actually doing our job,
then we are trying to lift you up.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
And tell you.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
The truth as you ought to think of it, the
principles as you ought to think of it, and in
this case, the day and day out of late native
of our show is very very simple. The principles that
we stand for are the principles of Western civilization, our show,
our community, you the.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
Listener, you the viewer.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
We are bulwarks against our enemies, foreign and domestic. As
you think of the Constitution describes it. Our enemies are
the dei wokarate. They are the islness, they are the
global neoliberals, the universalists, the modern pagans.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
We have a lot of them.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
Is frankly, we take Solis knowing that God is on ourselves,
the Biblical inheritance is on our side. That's what forged
Western civilization, That's what forged the United States of America,
and God willing that's going to keep this, this experiment
in order liberty going from one generation to the next
(35:19):
for many, many generations, many centuries to come. But the
left is not going to save this country. They're trying actively,
day in, day out to tear it down, destroy it.
If America is going to be saved, it's going to
come from the right, and is not going to come
from a right. That is confused as to who was
the good guy in World War Two, as to whether
(35:42):
or not the United States should have actually sided with
Hitler and spread fascism throughout the European continent. Those are
not the kind of quote unquote just asking questions that
are going to make the right and the certain movements
a healthy vehicle. Those are not the kind of antics
and tactics and just asking quesh and shenanigans that are
going to pull over independent voters, moderate voters, the voters
(36:07):
who don't necessarily vote for someone to vote against someone.
Twenty sixteen is a great example this. By the way,
there's a lot of truth in notion that Donald Trump's
positive agenda when it comes to realism in trade and
immigration foreign policy carry the day, partially, especially in the
russ Belt in the Midwest, the Blue Wall States was
consum Michigan, Pensylvania's a lot truth to that. But there's
an even greater truth to the fact that Hillary Clinton
(36:30):
was less popular than venereal disease when the least popular
candidate's an American presidential history. So for that kind of voter,
the voter who was voting not necessarily for but against,
do you want to give the against voter even more
ammunition to vote against by welcoming in Nazi sympathizers, by
(36:51):
giving credence to the left long standing caricature of the
rights which was false until like arguably yesterday, as a
bunch of no, it's still broadly false, to be clear.
But that's whe're debating now. Is the extent to which
they should be welcomed in. Do you want to give
them ammunition? Are you trying to blow up this coalition
(37:12):
that Donald Trump built, this multi ethnic working class coalition,
these historical gains with young people of Hispanics, black men,
going to blow it all up?
Speaker 8 (37:21):
For what.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
To look based in the eyes of a bunch of
twenty something Twitter users, is that the.
Speaker 5 (37:31):
Goal here.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
Are we trying to win elections?
Speaker 1 (37:37):
I was under the understanding what I've always signed up
for is that we're in this to advance ideas, because
ideas then translate into policy and law, which translated into
real things the matter for your day to day life,
all oriented towards the preservation and the saving of the
United States of America and Western civilization. That calls for leadership.
(37:58):
It doesn't call for blanking and glazing over, not just
petty differences, but really, really, really big differences. So it's
whether Nazis are okay or not. To conserve means to delineate,
to preserve, means to draw boundaries. Charlie Kirk understood that.
(38:21):
I think I understand that as well. I hope that
more leaders come to understand that as well, especially in
the aftermath now of Van Fast twenty twenty five. As
a reminder, folks, you can always listener watch our show.
We're available at Newsweek's YouTube page as well as via
the Salem Newshell.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
Make sure to leave us that five star review. We
always do appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
I'm Joshamer, who enjoyed says episode of The Josh Shammers Show.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
The Josh a Hammer Show is a member of the
Trust Project.
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