December 16, 2025 • 42 mins
Josh Hammer and Rabbi Steven Berg unpack the deeper meaning of Hanukkah—moving beyond the candles and celebrations to its powerful historical and spiritual core. Together, they revisit the courage of the Maccabees, the miracle that kept hope alive, and the timeless lessons of identity, faith, and cultural survival. This conversation speaks not only to the Jewish community but to anyone who cares about the biblical and civilizational foundations that continue to shape the West.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Happy Hanukah to the Jewish listeners and viewers of The
Josh Hammer Show. Rabbi Stephen Berg, CEO of Aish, one
of the most well known global Jewish outreach organizations. Rabbi
Berg joined us later for a full discussion of Hanukkah
and the meaning of the holiday, not just for the
Jewish people, but for America in the.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Entire Western world.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
All that on today's episode of The Josh Hammer Show.
There are certain holidays that stand out to you. There
are certain holidays I think for every individual that you
more intimately resonate with than others. Thinking for a second
about the American civic calendar, our secular calendar, if you will,
(00:40):
it is a Thanksgiving holiday that has always been, for
my entire life, my favorite holiday. We just celebrated that
a couple of weeks ago, and Thanksgiving to me is
the quintessence of what it means to be an American.
Is the reason that it goes all the way back
to George Washington's Thanksgiving Day Proclamation, which he signed in
the first months the first week really his presidency back
(01:01):
in seventeen eighty nine, and then thinking about the Jewish calendar,
for me, is jew with some of the holidays that
really really really resonates with me. Well, there are a couple.
There's Passover, which has always been one of my favorite
holidays as well. Passover which takes place in the springtime,
in the month of Nissan on the Hebrew calendar, which
(01:23):
is typically in April, sometimes in late March on the
American calendar. Pass Over to me, well, it's a lot
of things. But among the things is it kind of
has that Thanksgiving vibe. It kind of has that Thanksgiving
dinner table vibe. We also around the table we call
it a satyr very extremely traditional meal. Jesus Last Supper
was famously actually a Passover satar, and there's all sorts
(01:46):
of traditions that are involved there. We read the Hagada,
the story of the Exodus, celebrate the Exodus, something that
we actually do in our prayers every single day. But
the emphasis on family, de emphasis on a communal meal,
on all the beautiful traditions, the scene, the songs Passover
has always resonated with me. The other holiday I would
say above all that has always really really resonated with
(02:06):
me is the holiday that we are currently in now,
which is Hanukkah. So tonight's will be the third night
of Honkah and is an eight day holiday. It's eight
crazy nights, as we know from the old Adam Sandler songs.
And there's a few reasons why the story of Honkah
has always resonate with me. The way the story of
(02:26):
Honkah is told, I think for many folks, both Jewish
and non Jewish, is that if you receive something of
a cursory superficial education, what the holiday is you hear
about the miracle of the oil lasting eight nights when
the after the war was over and the mccabee's were
able to rededicate the temple there in the second century BCE,
(02:51):
and thereby Judaism was saved from the soluctied Empire and
the Syrian Greek conquerors. And to be clear, the miracle
of the oil is absolutely one of the miracles of
the Hankkah holiday, in my estimation, is actually not the
more important of the miracles. The more important of the
(03:11):
miracles is the part that the common telling of the
story just tends to totally gloss over not there. When
I was just describing Hankkah, I kind of brushed over
the fact that there was this big war. There was
a really big war. And then oh, by the way,
dot dot dot, after the war was over, that's when
the temple was rededicated. But what was the war? The
(03:32):
war is the graphic, gory and bloody part that the
politically correct version of Hankah tend to gloss over. This
is a war that was led on the one hand
by the Maccabees of the Book of Maccabee's First, McCabe's Second,
Maccabees of their fame due to the Maccabee being the
leader of the Maccabees at the time. They sought to
(03:55):
defend traditional Judaism. This was during the era of the Temple,
and they sought to defend Temple era Judaism against those
who sought to subjugate and the subjugation, crucially, crucially, the
subjugation had multiple forms. On the one hand, there was
a threat of physical annihilation, physical subjugation from the Celitude Empire.
(04:17):
On the other hand, there was the threat arguably even
more perniciously of spiritual of spiritual subjugation and spiritual assimilation. Instantly,
there's actually this notion of facing both spiritual and physical threats.
This combination of the two threats has been I think
(04:37):
one of the most recurring late motives, one of the
most recurring themes in the entire history of the Jewish people.
Just a few weeks ago, actually, in synagogues all around
the world, we read the Partia the Torah portion which
is Vaishlach, and in partia Vaishlach. This is the story
of when Jacob, Jacob the patriarch, the grand son of
(05:00):
of Abraham, the father of all the Monotheists. So the
grandson Jacob, who is a a a one of the
foremost characters in all of Jewish history and therefore in
all of biblical history, Jacob has his long awaited reunification
with his brother Aesof after thirty six years of not
seeing one another, and they things not go very well.
(05:22):
When Jacob and Aesof we're younger, Jacob famously takes the
birthrights from Asov, Asov sells his birthright for a pot
of lentil soup, and there's a lot of hatred and animus,
and Jacob flees because he fears his brother's gonna kill him. There, Okay,
long story short. In the tour portion, a few weeks ago.
What you have is Jacob praying to God and saying,
(05:44):
please rescue me, Please save me from my brother aesof.
So the commentators ask, why this repetition, Why say my
brother aesof? Why is this repeated? After all, we know
that Jacob's brother is aesof. What's the purpose of including both.
There are no extraneous superfluous words in the divine Torah,
(06:06):
in the in the in the actual Bible, and the
reason is as follows, the commentators say. The commentators say
that my brother is referring to the spiritual threat, the
threat of spiritual subjugation, of spiritual assimilation. That's the kind
of threat where someone brings you in closely and says, oh,
just try you know, see our idols, see our little idols,
see our culture experience? Are are this or that there?
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Come?
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Bring us in there. It's spiritual assimilation. And then aesof,
on the other hand, is the actual physical subjugation. So
this theme has been all there, all throughout Jewish history
and from much of Western history in general. So going
back then to the Honaka story, to me, it is
the spiritual threat. It is the my brother threat. That
is the even bigger threat. There in the in the
actual story of the Maccabean wars of the Hanuka Triumph,
(06:53):
and the Maccabees were drastically outnumbered there in the actual
war by the Hellenis, by the forces both of the
Celusuit Empire and the Jews who teamed up with them.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
There.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Of the Jews who teamed up because they had no
interest actually in the Jewish way of life, in the
Jewish custom traditions, in Judaism more generally, they had every
interest in just seeing it assimilate and absorbed into the
broader Hellenistic culture. But the Maccabees prevailed, and they prevailed,
and therefore they saved the religion and the way of life,
(07:26):
the nation, the customs, the culture, the folk ways, the values,
all of it. They saved it from annihilation. Folks, there
is a clear lesson here, not just for the Jewish people,
though there's obviously a lesson for the Jewish people as
well when it comes to the forces of assimilation, when
it comes to jaystreat if not now, and the Mamdani
freaks and all these other people that are trying to
(07:48):
just corrupt and to destroy Judaism from within, there's obviously
a lesson for the Jews, but there's a lesson here
very much for Christians and other non Jews as well.
And the lesson is this, understand what built your culture.
Understand what built your society. Without that understanding, you will
(08:09):
not appreciate, and without that appreciation, you will not fight
for it. Now, if you are in a culture that
is a third world and backwards, maybe it's okay to
forget about it. Maybe if you are a goat herder
in the mountains of Afghanistan, it's actually okay to forget
about what built your morally and culturally dilapidated culture. Forget
and the Taliban is actually not a particularly bad thing.
(08:32):
But the relevant point and the crux is this. In
the West, in Western civilization, in Europe, certainly the United States,
our culture is good. Our culture, our values are intellectual bedrock,
our foundation. It's worth preserving, it is worth cherishing, it's
worth passing down from one generation to the next. And
(08:55):
that foundation, above all, is the foundation of the Bible,
of the Biblical inheritance. Without the Maccabees triumph there, who
knows of would have happened. Jesus lived, of course after
the Maccabees. If Judaism had been eradicated right there in
the second century before the Common Era. It's entirely possible.
(09:17):
In fact, by definition, it's likely that Christianity never would
have existed as well. So this is really historically pertinent stuff.
And the lesson is if you don't know about your culture,
first to learn about it, do the reading, do the homework.
Understand in America, what built this country. Read the Federalist papers,
(09:39):
read what they were reading. Try to get into the
primary source documents, and above all, refamiliarize herself with scripture,
which was the singular historical and intellectual foundation upon which
all of this was predicated. On a very personal note,
Honaka resonates with me deeply because my Hebrew name actually
is Maccabee. Due to the mac was known as Judah
(10:01):
the hammer, that was the nickname, and my Hebrew name
is Yohoshu Binemen Maccabee. So I care very much about
this holiday as someone who aspires to be a modern
day Maccabee. In fact, in my book that I wrote
earlier this year, I dedicated to my daughter and I said,
may she be a Maccabee of her own day. That's
a usual strife to be as well, whether you are
(10:23):
Jewish or Christian, it doesn't matter. Try to be a
Maccabee of your own day. But that first requires knowing
your culture, valuing your culture, and being ready, willing, able,
perhaps even eager to fight for it if need be.
Is a timeless lesson, but the year twenty twenty five,
it has perhaps been never really ever, ever or relevant.
(10:45):
So we have begun the holiday of Hanukkah as just discussed,
and there is really no one that I am more
delighted to bring on to discuss the Hanukkah holiday, but
more generally, what is happening out there when it comes
to a lot of things we've just dis us in
the show for a month or two now, when it
comes to the assaults not merely against the Jewish people,
but the assault really on the shared Biblical inheritance, the
(11:08):
origins of Western civilization. This has been a recurring late
motif of our show, and for all of the above
reasons is our distinct pleasure and honor to bring on
Rabbi Stephen Berg. Rabbi Burke is the CEO of aish
An organization that is near and dear to my heart.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
For numerous reasons.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
We'll get into that perhaps as well, Rabbi Burg, But
for now, and thank you so much for joining the
Josh Hammershaw. I'm wishing you a Hanukah Sama, a happy Hanukah.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Thank you, Josh. Happy to you too, to an honor
and a pleasure to be here.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Well, you know, I might as well start off on
the personal note, actually, because before we dive into our conversation,
so I, like many Jews over the years, perhaps I
propose to my wife from from the balcony at at
Ash in Jerusalem. So Rabbit broby Berg has joined the
show from from from Jerusalem, which is which is where Ash,
which is a global Jewish outreach organization. They are headquartered
(11:54):
there right opposite of the Western Wall there in the
heart of the old City of Jerusalem. And like Hues,
I got down on one knee and proposed to my
now wife there and I think it's a fourth level
balcony in December of twenty twenty two, three years ago,
almost today. In fact, it was actually during the third
night of Honkah actually when when I proposed to her.
(12:15):
So it was just for all the above reasons. It's
really were just just just wonderful to bring you here
on the show. So let's let's talk a little bit
about hanka I. I was just discussing the holiday a
little bit in my in my opening remarks. The holiday
is very much commercialized here in the United States, not
necessarily always for the correct reasons. But the actual story
(12:37):
of Honikah Rabbi is near and dear to my own heart.
My Jewish name, actually, which I read about in my book,
is your host should beIN you mean Maccabee. I was
given that the Hebrew name at Maccabee at the time
of my bar Mitzvah, because Judah the Maccabe's nickname was
Judah the Hammer. So that's that's become my my Hebrew name.
It's it's on my prayer showl, my talite bag, my
(12:57):
my fill in bag, and so forth there. So I
want to turn over to you. You're very much more
of the expert than I am here. I love the
story of Hankah. I think that there are lessons here,
not just for Jews, frankly, but for anybody when it
comes to defending the integrity of your inheritance and your civilization.
But I want to turn over to you in this
particular moment toward and what are some of the most
(13:19):
important points and themes that you think are are just
important to get across when it comes to the eternal
relevance of the Hankah holiday.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Yeah, it's an amazing story.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
I mean, you know our history, we have been oppressed
pretty much in every country in the world, and certainly
even in Israel. Even today, we're fighting for our survival.
And this goes back over two thousand years. We're literally
you know, the Greeks had descended upon there and said,
you know, you can't sell about your religion, you can't
be Jewish, you can't do this.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
And finally the Jews had just had enough.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
And that's why, you know Judah MacCabe is it's just
a great hero just that pushback and the Jews saying
we're done, Like you have pushed us enough, We're going
to push back. And I think what's really great about
this holiday is number one is first it celebrates the
military victory that really that the Jews should have been
just wiped off the map, but we fought back. It
was the few against the many, which is a story
(14:12):
that's being retold in modern day Israel today.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
And I think so many of us feel a kinship
to that.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
So it's the story of the war that we finally
we fought back and we basically kicked them out and
retook the temple. But it's also a spiritual story because
when we got back to the temple, we found that
was defiled and we couldn't use the oil and the
manoa as we know today, that really started in the temple.
There was a large manoa there and we couldn't find
the oil, and we found a little bit of oil
that should have lasted one day and it lasted eight days.
(14:36):
Hence the holiday for eight days. So you have the
spiritual that God had had our back in terms of
our prayer and filling up the manoa and lighting them
over for him, but.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
You also had the physical. You really had the military victory.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
And I think for Jews and looking back since then,
in the over two thousand years, we've gone to so
many different places and we've suffered such oppression. Seeing the
hero of Judah MacCabe and his brothers rise up and
saying enough, we're done as Jews and we're going to
push back, I think it's been a very powerful tale
for Jews, who frankly need heroes to look up to.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
So it's been a very powerful tool for Jews as well.
But I do think that there is a more relevant
story here. So when you look at what the what
the Hanukkah story, and to be clear, I'm not saying
it's very relevant for Jews. I'm saying I'm saying that
there's a story here that is relevant for Christians and
non Jews frankly as well, which is that if you
look at the underlying fact pattern, there's something of a
bloody civil war happening here. And this is the part
(15:31):
that I think most tellers of history don't particularly like
to talk about, because it doesn't have to do with
kind of all the all the nice anecdotal visual imagery
of spinning dradles and eating ilakas and Hanikah geltz the
little chocolate candies and all this stuff there. But there
was a fairly bloody civil war between on the one hand,
the Maccabees, who were ardence defenders of traditional Temple era Judaism,
(15:56):
and on the other hand you you had the Hellenizers,
those who were who were willing and at times often
eager to be culturally and geographically subsumed into Hellenistic society
into post Alexander the Great, really really Greek Syrian society
at that time. And as we all know, the reason
(16:16):
that we are celebrating the holiday, the reason that you
celebrate today is because the former prevailed over the latter,
because the defenders of art and traditionalism prevailed. So, as
something of a traditionalism and a nationalist myself, I care
deeply for the Hanukkah message, but I'm curious for your
take kind of just at the current moment we're in.
(16:38):
One of the debates that we're having is between on
the one hand, nationalism versus globalism. And it's important to
get these terms rights here. When I speak about nationalism
speaking of the importance of a particular identity, a particular inheritance,
a particular people, particular culture, particular plot of land, as
often the case there. And on the other hand, you
kind of have just just universalism in general, this notion
(17:01):
that culture's values, all of it is in flux and
we can just mix and match there. This is what
leads to such things, as you know, large scale immigration
from non European societies into Europe, and we're seeing that
come out in the United States there, so I'm curious
if you think that there is or not. Either is,
but what the what the broader take might be then
(17:23):
kind of looking at the story of the triumph of
traditionalist nationalism over ultra assimilated universalism in the Honkah story.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Look, Josh, I think you're spot on.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
And I even think pre October seventh people would have
had a harder time understanding this story.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
But since October.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
Seventh, we have seen literally that there are Jews that
fight for Israel, and there have been totally secular Jews that,
because of October seventh, have rejoined the Jewish people and
fought for Israel. And yet there are other Jews that
have supported the enemies of Israel and the enemies of
the Jewish people. And so you look back at this story,
that's exactly what happened with Judaemacaby. Judamaic was not only
fighting against the Greeks, but he was also fighting against
(18:04):
many Jews that were like, look, we should just give
up everything and just join them and just just you know,
be a.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Part of them.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
And I think that's samply you there's something special about
being a Jew, and we're supposed to be a light
into a nation. But if we don't exist and we
just assimilate and we just become a part of whatever
culture are in, we can't be that light onto nation.
We can't be that incredible beacon that that people look towards.
So I definitely think that's a big part of this story.
One of the things that hurts me and most since
October seventh is watching all these young Jews who don't know.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Their history, are not connected to our people.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
Basically, you know, anytime someone starts a sentence with as
a Jew, you know the rest is not going to
be any good, right, And so they basically kind of
handed our heritage put it to the side. We don't
deserve to have a heritage, but everyone else in the
world just does deserve, and we should just, you know,
just kind of dissipate.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
So I think you're spot on.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
I think that's why this story, and it's it's almost
comical when you see everyone commercialize it, but they don't
really understand what happened here. This was a fight for
the soul of the Jewish people and not allowing us
ourselves to just kind of melt away.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
So I think it's a very very important message.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
I think that people can celebrate who they are and
appreciate others, but you would need to know who you
are before you can do anything else.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Yeah, you have to know who you are, and you
have to know what values and principles your culture and society,
your civilization are ultimately built upon. And this is you know, rabid.
This is one of my biggest frustrations, just kind of
zooming out and looking at our broader, you know, geopolitical
climate right now. You know, my book that came out
earlier this year, Israel and Civilization, The Fate of the
Jewish Nation the Destiny of the West, begins with the
(19:36):
very simple premise actually, which is after the Hamas Pagrama
of October seven, twenty twenty three, and after the way
that the leading purported lights of Western society oftentimes reacted
in deeply confused fashion as to who was right and
who was wrong, who was good, who was bad, which
cause was just, which was unjust? That to me, that
(19:59):
evinced a a profound lack of ability to identify that
which birthed their civilization in the first place. Because when
you properly understand, as I do, Western civilization as the
outflow of the Biblical inheritance, then it ought to be
fairly clear who you are choosing here in a conflict
(20:19):
between between the free and flourishing state of Israel and
the Jewish people and this seventh century aspiring Stria supremacist
Islamic death Gold of Hamas on the other hand. So
that's a big part of my book. The commut is
just trying to kind of remind people this and try
to put Humpty dumpty back together again. I'm curious kind
of hearkening back to what you said a few moments
(20:39):
ago about the imperative of being a light onto the nations.
This famous, this famous exhortation from the Book of Isaiah,
one of the greatest books of the entire Hebrew Bible.
I am my estimation. Can you kind of kind of
weave these two strands together here? So on the one hand,
we have kind of Western civilization on the brink, doesn't
really know what it is or what it stands for.
(21:00):
Should it exist there or should we just kind of
welcome in non Western forces folks in Afghanistan, Syria, whatever.
Then what is the role then of of the of
the Jewish people to actually try to be a light
onto nations? And does that role have have salience not
just for the Jews, which of course it does, but
then also for really the broader fates of the West.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
Look, I think that the Jews have brought morality ethics
to the world. You know, we we literally brought it
out all the major religions, go back to Judaism, because
we were the ones that said that, you know, we
need to have laws and we need to have have
morale ethics. And even like you know today with the IDF,
you know, and it's almost the biggest joke in the
world because Israel, which is a democracy, you're looking at
all these dictatorships and you know, monarchies surround the Israel
(21:46):
that oppress their own people but are really good at
like keeping it off camera. And so Jews are are
really we have this ability to show the world and
so much of what we've done. You know, you you
look at Nobel prizes, right, Why have Jews won so
many Noble prizes?
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Right?
Speaker 3 (22:00):
And you can't say that someone created a vaccine just
for the Jewish people.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
They create a vaccine for the entire world. That We've
always been that light.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
We've always tried to do great things and every time
we've come to another country, we tried to build up
the country all the way back to the American Revolution.
You have him Solomon, who helped to fund the American Revolution, and.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
We went all the way back to the beginning.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
We've always tried to play that role and to help
that role, and people have been suspicious of us as
a result, because they need to have someone that they
can blame. They need to say, you know, if I'm
not doing well, it's got to be the Jews fault,
and therefore they've fallen into this anti semitism. Today, the
Internet and social media has made it much easier, and
we have so many enemies out there that are trying
Katar does not want anyone looking closely at them.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
It's the best thing to do is blame on the Jews.
I ran.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
It's the same in so many other other countries. But
we can never give up that being that light. It's
even more than that. You know, when you go to
these rallies, we always give this example. You know, you
go to an anti Asiera rally and you have burning
of flags and like people throwing things in violence.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
You go to a Jewish rally, you see and love.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
Right, we we're the people of love, and we can't
forget that, and we can't let them make haters of us.
And we had to be very careful to continue to
bring God's love to the world because that was what
Moses did with analyzing and Jacob, that's that's.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Who we are.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
We brought love to the world, and the Christians and
the Muslims, everyone came back to us and they used
our profits for that. So we have to be careful
not to get quoted dat to continue to be aligned
to nations.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
No matter how.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
Many times we get punched in the face, We're going
to jump back up and we're going to do the
right thing no matter what. We're going to defend ourselves
no matter what. But we're going to continue being that light.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Rab I see the Murga is the CEO of ASH,
a well known global Jewish houreach organization. They really do
fantastic work. If I don't say so myself, you know,
rabbit Berg, there's something of a of a of a contrast,
there's something of an interesting dichotomy when I look at
the at the current state of global jewelry, and I
can't help but chuckle, because global jewry was actually the
(23:56):
exact turn of phrase that that Nick Flent has us
in his recent time Carlston view. So I can't help
but but but smile and with this tongue in cheek
in case of global jew anyway, when I look at
actual global DREI like Jews around the world, I can't
help but know that there is that there is something
of a dichotomy between the the States, the flourishing of
(24:16):
Jews currently in the land of Israel, and and the
state of Jews in the in the broader diaspora, in
countries all all outside the land the land of Israel.
I'm talking here mostly outside of the United States. But
as I think the world has caught on too increasingly,
things are are are a little testy here in the
United States as well. I'm curious just because you're in
(24:39):
you're in Jerusalem. I'm curious just for your just for
your take on that. You know, what can we say
about this dichotomy? I guess do you accept that there
is this dichotomy is as stark as at times I
think that it is. What does that say? Is there
potentially even a theological or divine possible purpose that is
going on here? I kind of defer to you. You
you're the you're more of the expert on that, but
(25:00):
I guess it's even more, even more practically than I would.
Also be curious for our thoughts, if my premise is correct.
Why you think we're seeing it. Why you think we're
seeing this strong contrast between the flourishing of the Jews
currently in the Land of Israel versus the at times
plated of them outside of the Land of Israel.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
Yeah, I think one of the things it's so interesting
you mentioned Nick Puentes, you know, using World jew I
also canto that like he actually.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Has read us.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
I mean, he's abhorrent and disgusting and terrible, but he
he kind of uses our language. And I think one
of the struggles people had around the world and understanding
Jewish people is we don't fit into any box.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Right.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
We're not exactly just a nation, Right, We're not exactly
just a religion, and we're not even just a race
because you have Jews of all different colors, so no
one really knows what to do with us. And I
think post October seventh, really, I mean the definition I've
been using is family, right, we are literally family, and
I don't think the world quite understood that. You know,
(25:57):
when the Jews of Israel is suffering, I tell you,
I'm in is and I would go back and forth constantly,
and the Jews of Israel were always saying, you know.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Are Jews in America? Are they like?
Speaker 3 (26:06):
Do they know what's going on here? Are they focused?
I'm like, yes, they are very focused. And the Jews
of America sent a tremendous amount of philanthropy to support
the Jews of Israel in the following months because that
was family.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Our family's in trouble.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Now as I'm going from Israel to New York City,
people are worried about the Jews of New York City
from Israel because I ma'm Danie and all the horrific
things that are going on now in New York and
the anti Semitism, and so Jews are really concerned about
each other everywhere we go, no matter where. And by
the way, he storic with two thousand years, it's been
like that. Every time there's a Jew in trouble, the
(26:40):
Jews have their back, and everyone is a little like, oh,
we don't understand, you know, like, what's your connection, whether
your connection we're family, they.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
We're cousins, we're brothers, we're sisters.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
You know, when we lose that connection, that's when the
Jews are in trouble. And I think that one of
you know, one of the horrific things that we're seeing
in New York City is that they're trying to break
up the Jewish people saying no, no, I like Jews, I just.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Don't like Zionists, right, I don't like the people support Israel. Right.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
We can't let them define who we are right as
a Jew, Israel's your country, that's the bottom line. I mean,
our prayers, our Bible, everything is about that. You can't
take Israel out of the Jewish people. And so when
you do allow that to happen, then you start to
float away from the Jewish people and then you're gonna
be lost to us, and you're gonna be lost to
your family.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
And I think that's the tragedy here. And look at ash.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
Our job has been through the Enginet to try and
recapture so many unaffiliated Jews and say hey, you need
to know why you're Jewish because you have this incredible, warm,
beautiful family. You have family in Israel, you have family
in Brazil, you have family in England. You have family everywhere,
and so we need to stay strong and at the
Jews of any country are weakening, then it's a problem
for all of us and we have.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
To you know, we have to just lift each other up.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
I totally agree with that obviously. And you know, family
is a very interesting way to describe global Jewish people.
I think of it typically as being a nation. I
agree with you that don't don't as sssarily fit into
kind of the Western conceptions of a of a faith,
you know, you know, Christianity is more of faith. Judaism
is something slightly different. I typically refer to as a nation.
But but family actually is a very interesting interesting way
(28:11):
to put it as well. So again, folks, WHICHI was
with Rabbi Stephen Burke, he's the CEO of Aish, a
global Jewish outreach organization. I want to talk about because
again your location for ash I you know, for the
folks out there who have not been the Jerusalem. First
of all, I cannot encourage you enough if you have
the opportunity to try and go visit Jerusalem, whether you
are a Jew or Christian, you will have just an incredible,
(28:31):
amazing experience. And when you go to the western wall,
you will you will look, you will look directly across
from the western wall, directly westward, and you will see
you will, you will, you will see Asia's global headquarters.
It is some of the most magnificent real estate, frankly,
in the entire entire country of Israel. And on that note, Rabbi,
I can't help but think, especially this time of the year,
(28:53):
it's it's in the middle of Hanukah. For for our
Christian listeners and viewers, we're approaching Christmas in the notz
distant future. Sure here as well, there is this concerted effort.
You know, we mentioned flent as I briefly mentioned Tucker Carlson,
who's a frequent target of this particular program. You know,
there is this concerted effort to divorce the story of
Western civilization and really the story of America. Here in America,
(29:15):
but there's this effort to divorce the story of all
of that from the actual origins of Western civilization, from
the actual origins of the Bible.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
You know, there was this there was this remarkable recent
interview that Tucker Carlson gave to to Magan Kelly where
they're on stage together an event, and Tucker tried to
make the claim that it's actually just the New Testament,
the New Testament alone, which built America, which you know,
my base response to that is, you know, dude, go
to Philadelphia. Tell me what's on the Liberty bill in Philadelphia.
I mean, it's the Book of Leviticus, for goodness sake.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
There.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
I mean, there's there's, there's a there's a million examples
where that came from. There. It's just it's hard, it's
it's hard, frankly, to imagine that anyone intelligent could actually
believe this. But you know, I'm curious for I know
a lot of Jews who don't necessarily think of Judaism
as being part of Western civilization. They do think of
Western civilization as being more inherent and inherently Christian. I'm
(30:12):
curious for your for your take on that and how
you think that not just Judaism, but also the current
state of Israel, how the religion and the nation, how
they interact in your mind with the broader West.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
Exactly.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
Well, first of all, Josh, you had mentioned before that
you post your wife on our wife on our balcony
overlooking the Temple Mound. You know, I literally yesterday Bob Diner,
Bob Micheal Diener, they're the donors at balcony. Bob asked
how many engagements we've had since October seventh on that balcony,
And it's been over one hundred and fifty since October
seventh on that acophony.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
So it's a very special place we look out.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
But you know, I've told people that from nineteen forty
eight till nineteen sixty seven, if I was standing in
Age right overlooking the Temple mount as a Jew, I
would have been shot and killed right would not come
to the Old City. I could not worship at the
Western Wall. Since nineteen sixty seven, all three religions Islam, Christianity,
(31:09):
Judaism have freedom of worship, freedom of movement in the
Old City because of the Jewish state, because of Israel.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
Israel is the place that is holding it open.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
And I think that's something that gets totally lost in
the greater story. I could tell you that at Ash
we have many, many Christians and many Muslims come through
after peace was made with the UAE between the UAE
and Israel, so we had a flood of people from
the UAE coming, But they could not go to Temple
Mount because they would be harassed on the Temple Mount
by the Palestinians. They would come to ash literally we
(31:42):
were having flowing robes, you know, just coming up there,
and we walk on them with open arms. Because the
bottom line is that we have believed, the Jewish faith
has always believed that the Temple Mount is a place
for every single human being in the world to be
able to get close to God and to pray. That
is a space for everyone, and I think that it's
it's so important to remember this. And of course what
(32:05):
Tucker cross And said is not connected to all to religion.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
I mean, it's absurd.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
We all know, you know, everyone goes back to Abraham,
is the he start Monotheism for the entire world. Without Abraham,
everyone's sitting, you know, worshiping stone idols, and so it's
just so absurd, and it just it tries to fit
a narrative, it doesn't really fit any truth. So you know,
as far as us being there, we're thrilled to whole
to host non Jews, thrilled to our brothers and sisters,
(32:33):
our cousins as I affectionately refer to them. We encourage
them to come and they should worship. And it's only
going to happen as long as Israel is the hair
in the Old City. If anyone else takes over that spot,
believe me, people are going to be slaughtered again and
they won't be allowed to worship.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
And you know, sometimes I hear folks who know pound
their chests and they call themselves America First, and they,
you know, invariably propagate policies that have the effects of
undermine Israel more broadly, and especially oftentimes undermining Israel's claims
two things like the Old City of Jerusalem to Jday
and Samaria, the Biblical homeland and so forth more generally.
(33:09):
And I oftentimes just really struggle, and I say, what
exactly I mean taking this is face value taking on
its own terms, Like, explain to me what the quote
unquote America first case is. What is the America first
case for giving the plo, for giving Hamas, giving a
Ron whoever, you know, you know, de facto if not
ds your actual legal control over the holy sites of
(33:31):
all three Abrahamic religions. I mean, like, what exactly is
the America first claim for carving out yet another you know,
radical Muslim terrorist state in the heart of the Middle East.
I mean, I mean, the logic really falls frankly on
on its own face, and I've never really quite understood it.
It just doesn't necessarily resonate with me. I guess one
(33:55):
additional question for you. Look, I mean, again, as we
begin to wrap our conversation here, we're in the middle
of Hanukkah, which is this story of mccabee in Triumph.
There is the sense that you get from front from
Israel that the United States and the West more generally
are perhaps maybe not as staunch reliable supporters as as
(34:16):
they would have been as recently as ten twenty years ago.
I'm sure you're you've been in many conversations where this
comes up and you're and you're grappling this. And the
reason I asked that is not to be dower, but
because I think that there's something to be said for
them kind of doubling down in kind of this Maccabean
kind of Honkkah esque, you know, fortitude that you know
we're here, we're not going anywhere. So I'm curious if
(34:37):
you've had those conversations and if it kind of relates
to this mccabean mentality that I'm talking about here.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
Yeah, Look, I.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
Think the Israelis feel that America has their back because
of President President Donald Trump.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
I was in the connects that when he spoke, people.
Speaker 3 (34:50):
Feel very much that he has their back, that he
has had their back, and they've watched it and they
you know, the hostages, we're still waiting on one.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
But like they came back.
Speaker 3 (35:00):
He kept his promises, you know, the America First folks,
And I think there is a little nervousness is what
comes next, who comes next? And their take on that,
But you know, America First, they just it's so immature
that those folks, they don't understand. They're like, America First.
You can still have allies, you can have friends. Doesn't
mean you threw everyone to the size. You know, when
(35:20):
with the battle with Iran, everyone said, oh, it's gonna
be horrible, It's gonna be terrible. What happened was Israel
controlled the skies, took care of everything, so America was
able to come over and take care of these nuclear
power plants that frankly, people in the street were yelling
death through America over a way more than death to
Israel and America was able to go over there and
and no loss of anything because.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
Israel had and that's what happens.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
Allies paved the way and then you can come and
do what you need to do and keep your soldiers safe.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
So there's just this.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
Immaturity and lack of understanding of what an ally actually means.
Right when you have aligned interest that America could be
first and Israel could be first, that's actually okay because
they have these alne values. They've always been together traditionally,
and so I you know, demanies America first. Folks you
know on the internet, they're just trying to, you know,
just rack up followers or play to the crowd and
(36:10):
stuff like that. But I think people and is on
number one is they have a lot of faith in
President Donald Trump. But yes, I believe there is concern
that some of the politicians following the next president, who
the next president is going to be, are they going
to kowtow to the Tucker Carlson's of the world or horribly,
the Nick Puentes and all these other crazies out there,
or are they going to stick to the values of
(36:32):
monotheism of they shared heritage and history.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
We have, in which case we can we can be
productive for many, many years to come.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
Yeah, there's arguably even stronger case we made for the
the Iran War, the Twelve Day War as Trump called,
that just happened in June. So you you correctly know
that the United States effectually went in for the for
the coup de gras, for the for the death blow
at the ends with these B two bombers, this thirty
seven hour flight from Missouri, they go, they drop, they
drop the bunkerbuster bomb on Fordau and elsewhere, and then
(37:01):
they fly right back to Missouri. And they did that
off of the predicad that the that the IDF, that
the IDF laid down by taking out high ranking Irani
in generals and air defense and all the various things
that allowed those B two bombers to just glide in
glide out. It's arguably even stronger than that though, because
let's not forget that, for a very very long time,
(37:22):
Iran's insurance policy when it came to the nuclear program
was Hesbala was the Shia supremacist Jihadis group there on
Israel's northern border in Lebanon. But by the time that
this all went down, this past June, Hesbala was close
to eradicated, and not not literally of eradicated. There's still
has Boala today, but they are seriously, seriously grievously wounded
(37:44):
and Hassan ma Asraala, the decades long leader of Hesbala
very I mean, essentially the entire organizational hierarchy, the entire
organizational float chart was taken out and kind of a
Michael Croleoni Godfather esque revenge spree by Israel in the
summer of twenty twenty four. So all of that then
allowed for Israel to do the initial dirty work in Iran,
and then after that came the United States with the
(38:07):
B two bombers. So it really is kind of a
beautiful example as to what this tag team dynamic duo
can look like in practice. You know, I was meeting
with a US senator in September. I won't say his
name because it was all off the record and so
forth there, and he asked me, he said, Josh, what
is definition of an ally? I said, Centator, I will
give you a very clear, easy to define, an easy
(38:31):
to apply definition of an ally. The definition is this.
The definition is that where you have another country and
when the other country acts in its own national interests,
that that then has the secondary effect of benefiting your
national interest. That's an ally, and he liked it, and
he said, Okay, I'm going to go run with that.
I'll talk my colleagues, so we'll see. But I mean,
(38:52):
it seems to me that pretty much every quote you
look at, especially given the iron example that we just discussed,
it seems to me that that Israel fits that definition
certainly bear than nay of the country, and the read
I mean, really about as well as any of the
country in the world. So hopefully, hopefully that that argument
carries water. So Rabitt, before I let you go, I
guess I would be remiss if I didn't ask for
any kind of just you know, that was something of
(39:12):
an admittedly some of a downar question. I just asked
you there, and I think you handle it with a
plumb But let's let's let let's end on optimistic note.
To me, Hanukah is one of the quintessential optimistic holidays,
again because the Jewish people were on the precipice of
being eradicated, as has often been the case throughout Jewish history,
and they they survive, they recover, their traditions. It's a
(39:35):
story of hope and traditionalism and nationalism there. So, you know,
as we as we now are in the midst of Hanukkah,
and there's a lot of people, especially here, I think
in the United States, who are really kind of fretting
and wondering what comes next.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
There.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
I'm wondering if you have any kind of you know,
you know, parting message of inspiration or hope for you know,
really for the audience.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
Yeah, look, God loves the Jewish people. I have to
tell you that that God really loves us. God has
blessed us. You know, we started with Judah Maccabee.
Speaker 3 (40:00):
You know, I look around at the young men and
women in Israel and the IDP. I have two nephews,
you know, the special forces that fought the last two years.
There's such promise, you know, there is such promise.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
You know.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
Khaniko was about keeping Israel strong and staying there and
being able to worship the way we want to worship.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
And that's what's going on today.
Speaker 3 (40:21):
And there's so many incredible young Jews, and I have seen,
especially since October seventh, so many Jews inspired to reach
out to God, to reach out to Israel, to defend
the Jewish people, to defend Israel. I don't think the
future has ever been brighter there before. Yeah, I mean,
there are anti Semites around the world, but frankly they've
been for the last two thousand years.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
But we haven't been back in our own country. We
haven't been back in Israel.
Speaker 3 (40:44):
You know, just show up in Israel, just walk the streets,
go buy a doughnut filled with custard, you know, on
the streets of Ben you Hood in Jerusalem and Tel Aviv,
and you see just smiles and happiness, and Israel every
single year when's a war to being one of the
most happy places in the world because we're at peace
with who we are. We're paid peace with each other,
(41:05):
we're in peace with the Almighty, with God, and that's
where we need to be.
Speaker 2 (41:08):
And if anyone, you know, kind of mess with that,
we'll deal with it. But the bottom line is ultimately
being a Jew is great and we're going to do
great continue to do great things for the world.
Speaker 1 (41:16):
And I would argue only by the Jewish people being
a light unto the nations, which in my personal reading
of that verse means actually following the law, actually obeying
God and following his rules, actually doing the commandments, doing
the mits votes as we call them. There really really
that I think is a necessary condition really for the flourishing,
not merely of the Jewish people, but really really for
(41:39):
for Western civilization. Frankly, I would argue the whole world. So,
Rabbi stephen Berg, what a pleasure this has been. Rabbi
Sienberg again, folks. One final time is the CEO of
Aish can follow their work over at ash Google then
they do wonderful Jewish outreach work. Wishing you again a
Honica samanaka happy Honkah, thank you so much for joining
the Josh Hammer Show.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
Thank you Josh, Happy God, Bless God.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
Bless you too, and thank you as always for watching
today's episode of The Josh Hammer Show.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
The Josh Amber Show is a member of the Trust Project.
Happy Hanukah to the Jewish listeners and viewers of The
Josh Hammer Show. Rabbi Stephen Berg, CEO of Aish, one
of the most well known global Jewish outreach organizations. Rabbi
Berg joined us later for a full discussion of Hanukkah
and the meaning of the holiday, not just for the
Jewish people, but for America in the.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Entire Western world.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
All that on today's episode of The Josh Hammer Show.
There are certain holidays that stand out to you. There
are certain holidays I think for every individual that you
more intimately resonate with than others. Thinking for a second
about the American civic calendar, our secular calendar, if you will,
(00:40):
it is a Thanksgiving holiday that has always been, for
my entire life, my favorite holiday. We just celebrated that
a couple of weeks ago, and Thanksgiving to me is
the quintessence of what it means to be an American.
Is the reason that it goes all the way back
to George Washington's Thanksgiving Day Proclamation, which he signed in
the first months the first week really his presidency back
(01:01):
in seventeen eighty nine, and then thinking about the Jewish calendar,
for me, is jew with some of the holidays that
really really really resonates with me. Well, there are a couple.
There's Passover, which has always been one of my favorite
holidays as well. Passover which takes place in the springtime,
in the month of Nissan on the Hebrew calendar, which
(01:23):
is typically in April, sometimes in late March on the
American calendar. Pass Over to me, well, it's a lot
of things. But among the things is it kind of
has that Thanksgiving vibe. It kind of has that Thanksgiving
dinner table vibe. We also around the table we call
it a satyr very extremely traditional meal. Jesus Last Supper
was famously actually a Passover satar, and there's all sorts
(01:46):
of traditions that are involved there. We read the Hagada,
the story of the Exodus, celebrate the Exodus, something that
we actually do in our prayers every single day. But
the emphasis on family, de emphasis on a communal meal,
on all the beautiful traditions, the scene, the songs Passover
has always resonated with me. The other holiday I would
say above all that has always really really resonated with
(02:06):
me is the holiday that we are currently in now,
which is Hanukkah. So tonight's will be the third night
of Honkah and is an eight day holiday. It's eight
crazy nights, as we know from the old Adam Sandler songs.
And there's a few reasons why the story of Honkah
has always resonate with me. The way the story of
(02:26):
Honkah is told, I think for many folks, both Jewish
and non Jewish, is that if you receive something of
a cursory superficial education, what the holiday is you hear
about the miracle of the oil lasting eight nights when
the after the war was over and the mccabee's were
able to rededicate the temple there in the second century BCE,
(02:51):
and thereby Judaism was saved from the soluctied Empire and
the Syrian Greek conquerors. And to be clear, the miracle
of the oil is absolutely one of the miracles of
the Hankkah holiday, in my estimation, is actually not the
more important of the miracles. The more important of the
(03:11):
miracles is the part that the common telling of the
story just tends to totally gloss over not there. When
I was just describing Hankkah, I kind of brushed over
the fact that there was this big war. There was
a really big war. And then oh, by the way,
dot dot dot, after the war was over, that's when
the temple was rededicated. But what was the war? The
(03:32):
war is the graphic, gory and bloody part that the
politically correct version of Hankah tend to gloss over. This
is a war that was led on the one hand
by the Maccabees of the Book of Maccabee's First, McCabe's Second,
Maccabees of their fame due to the Maccabee being the
leader of the Maccabees at the time. They sought to
(03:55):
defend traditional Judaism. This was during the era of the Temple,
and they sought to defend Temple era Judaism against those
who sought to subjugate and the subjugation, crucially, crucially, the
subjugation had multiple forms. On the one hand, there was
a threat of physical annihilation, physical subjugation from the Celitude Empire.
(04:17):
On the other hand, there was the threat arguably even
more perniciously of spiritual of spiritual subjugation and spiritual assimilation. Instantly,
there's actually this notion of facing both spiritual and physical threats.
This combination of the two threats has been I think
(04:37):
one of the most recurring late motives, one of the
most recurring themes in the entire history of the Jewish people.
Just a few weeks ago, actually, in synagogues all around
the world, we read the Partia the Torah portion which
is Vaishlach, and in partia Vaishlach. This is the story
of when Jacob, Jacob the patriarch, the grand son of
(05:00):
of Abraham, the father of all the Monotheists. So the
grandson Jacob, who is a a a one of the
foremost characters in all of Jewish history and therefore in
all of biblical history, Jacob has his long awaited reunification
with his brother Aesof after thirty six years of not
seeing one another, and they things not go very well.
(05:22):
When Jacob and Aesof we're younger, Jacob famously takes the
birthrights from Asov, Asov sells his birthright for a pot
of lentil soup, and there's a lot of hatred and animus,
and Jacob flees because he fears his brother's gonna kill him. There, Okay,
long story short. In the tour portion, a few weeks ago.
What you have is Jacob praying to God and saying,
(05:44):
please rescue me, Please save me from my brother aesof.
So the commentators ask, why this repetition, Why say my
brother aesof? Why is this repeated? After all, we know
that Jacob's brother is aesof. What's the purpose of including both.
There are no extraneous superfluous words in the divine Torah,
(06:06):
in the in the in the actual Bible, and the
reason is as follows, the commentators say. The commentators say
that my brother is referring to the spiritual threat, the
threat of spiritual subjugation, of spiritual assimilation. That's the kind
of threat where someone brings you in closely and says, oh,
just try you know, see our idols, see our little idols,
see our culture experience? Are are this or that there?
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Come?
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Bring us in there. It's spiritual assimilation. And then aesof,
on the other hand, is the actual physical subjugation. So
this theme has been all there, all throughout Jewish history
and from much of Western history in general. So going
back then to the Honaka story, to me, it is
the spiritual threat. It is the my brother threat. That
is the even bigger threat. There in the in the
actual story of the Maccabean wars of the Hanuka Triumph,
(06:53):
and the Maccabees were drastically outnumbered there in the actual
war by the Hellenis, by the forces both of the
Celusuit Empire and the Jews who teamed up with them.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
There.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Of the Jews who teamed up because they had no
interest actually in the Jewish way of life, in the
Jewish custom traditions, in Judaism more generally, they had every
interest in just seeing it assimilate and absorbed into the
broader Hellenistic culture. But the Maccabees prevailed, and they prevailed,
and therefore they saved the religion and the way of life,
(07:26):
the nation, the customs, the culture, the folk ways, the values,
all of it. They saved it from annihilation. Folks, there
is a clear lesson here, not just for the Jewish people,
though there's obviously a lesson for the Jewish people as
well when it comes to the forces of assimilation, when
it comes to jaystreat if not now, and the Mamdani
freaks and all these other people that are trying to
(07:48):
just corrupt and to destroy Judaism from within, there's obviously
a lesson for the Jews, but there's a lesson here
very much for Christians and other non Jews as well.
And the lesson is this, understand what built your culture.
Understand what built your society. Without that understanding, you will
(08:09):
not appreciate, and without that appreciation, you will not fight
for it. Now, if you are in a culture that
is a third world and backwards, maybe it's okay to
forget about it. Maybe if you are a goat herder
in the mountains of Afghanistan, it's actually okay to forget
about what built your morally and culturally dilapidated culture. Forget
and the Taliban is actually not a particularly bad thing.
(08:32):
But the relevant point and the crux is this. In
the West, in Western civilization, in Europe, certainly the United States,
our culture is good. Our culture, our values are intellectual bedrock,
our foundation. It's worth preserving, it is worth cherishing, it's
worth passing down from one generation to the next. And
(08:55):
that foundation, above all, is the foundation of the Bible,
of the Biblical inheritance. Without the Maccabees triumph there, who
knows of would have happened. Jesus lived, of course after
the Maccabees. If Judaism had been eradicated right there in
the second century before the Common Era. It's entirely possible.
(09:17):
In fact, by definition, it's likely that Christianity never would
have existed as well. So this is really historically pertinent stuff.
And the lesson is if you don't know about your culture,
first to learn about it, do the reading, do the homework.
Understand in America, what built this country. Read the Federalist papers,
(09:39):
read what they were reading. Try to get into the
primary source documents, and above all, refamiliarize herself with scripture,
which was the singular historical and intellectual foundation upon which
all of this was predicated. On a very personal note,
Honaka resonates with me deeply because my Hebrew name actually
is Maccabee. Due to the mac was known as Judah
(10:01):
the hammer, that was the nickname, and my Hebrew name
is Yohoshu Binemen Maccabee. So I care very much about
this holiday as someone who aspires to be a modern
day Maccabee. In fact, in my book that I wrote
earlier this year, I dedicated to my daughter and I said,
may she be a Maccabee of her own day. That's
a usual strife to be as well, whether you are
(10:23):
Jewish or Christian, it doesn't matter. Try to be a
Maccabee of your own day. But that first requires knowing
your culture, valuing your culture, and being ready, willing, able,
perhaps even eager to fight for it if need be.
Is a timeless lesson, but the year twenty twenty five,
it has perhaps been never really ever, ever or relevant.
(10:45):
So we have begun the holiday of Hanukkah as just discussed,
and there is really no one that I am more
delighted to bring on to discuss the Hanukkah holiday, but
more generally, what is happening out there when it comes
to a lot of things we've just dis us in
the show for a month or two now, when it
comes to the assaults not merely against the Jewish people,
but the assault really on the shared Biblical inheritance, the
(11:08):
origins of Western civilization. This has been a recurring late
motif of our show, and for all of the above
reasons is our distinct pleasure and honor to bring on
Rabbi Stephen Berg. Rabbi Burke is the CEO of aish
An organization that is near and dear to my heart.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
For numerous reasons.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
We'll get into that perhaps as well, Rabbi Burg, But
for now, and thank you so much for joining the
Josh Hammershaw. I'm wishing you a Hanukah Sama, a happy Hanukah.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Thank you, Josh. Happy to you too, to an honor
and a pleasure to be here.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Well, you know, I might as well start off on
the personal note, actually, because before we dive into our conversation,
so I, like many Jews over the years, perhaps I
propose to my wife from from the balcony at at
Ash in Jerusalem. So Rabbit broby Berg has joined the
show from from from Jerusalem, which is which is where Ash,
which is a global Jewish outreach organization. They are headquartered
(11:54):
there right opposite of the Western Wall there in the
heart of the old City of Jerusalem. And like Hues,
I got down on one knee and proposed to my
now wife there and I think it's a fourth level
balcony in December of twenty twenty two, three years ago,
almost today. In fact, it was actually during the third
night of Honkah actually when when I proposed to her.
(12:15):
So it was just for all the above reasons. It's
really were just just just wonderful to bring you here
on the show. So let's let's talk a little bit
about hanka I. I was just discussing the holiday a
little bit in my in my opening remarks. The holiday
is very much commercialized here in the United States, not
necessarily always for the correct reasons. But the actual story
(12:37):
of Honikah Rabbi is near and dear to my own heart.
My Jewish name, actually, which I read about in my book,
is your host should beIN you mean Maccabee. I was
given that the Hebrew name at Maccabee at the time
of my bar Mitzvah, because Judah the Maccabe's nickname was
Judah the Hammer. So that's that's become my my Hebrew name.
It's it's on my prayer showl, my talite bag, my
(12:57):
my fill in bag, and so forth there. So I
want to turn over to you. You're very much more
of the expert than I am here. I love the
story of Hankah. I think that there are lessons here,
not just for Jews, frankly, but for anybody when it
comes to defending the integrity of your inheritance and your civilization.
But I want to turn over to you in this
particular moment toward and what are some of the most
(13:19):
important points and themes that you think are are just
important to get across when it comes to the eternal
relevance of the Hankah holiday.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Yeah, it's an amazing story.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
I mean, you know our history, we have been oppressed
pretty much in every country in the world, and certainly
even in Israel. Even today, we're fighting for our survival.
And this goes back over two thousand years. We're literally
you know, the Greeks had descended upon there and said,
you know, you can't sell about your religion, you can't
be Jewish, you can't do this.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
And finally the Jews had just had enough.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
And that's why, you know Judah MacCabe is it's just
a great hero just that pushback and the Jews saying
we're done, Like you have pushed us enough, We're going
to push back. And I think what's really great about
this holiday is number one is first it celebrates the
military victory that really that the Jews should have been
just wiped off the map, but we fought back. It
was the few against the many, which is a story
(14:12):
that's being retold in modern day Israel today.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
And I think so many of us feel a kinship
to that.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
So it's the story of the war that we finally
we fought back and we basically kicked them out and
retook the temple. But it's also a spiritual story because
when we got back to the temple, we found that
was defiled and we couldn't use the oil and the
manoa as we know today, that really started in the temple.
There was a large manoa there and we couldn't find
the oil, and we found a little bit of oil
that should have lasted one day and it lasted eight days.
(14:36):
Hence the holiday for eight days. So you have the
spiritual that God had had our back in terms of
our prayer and filling up the manoa and lighting them
over for him, but.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
You also had the physical. You really had the military victory.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
And I think for Jews and looking back since then,
in the over two thousand years, we've gone to so
many different places and we've suffered such oppression. Seeing the
hero of Judah MacCabe and his brothers rise up and
saying enough, we're done as Jews and we're going to
push back, I think it's been a very powerful tale
for Jews, who frankly need heroes to look up to.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
So it's been a very powerful tool for Jews as well.
But I do think that there is a more relevant
story here. So when you look at what the what
the Hanukkah story, and to be clear, I'm not saying
it's very relevant for Jews. I'm saying I'm saying that
there's a story here that is relevant for Christians and
non Jews frankly as well, which is that if you
look at the underlying fact pattern, there's something of a
bloody civil war happening here. And this is the part
(15:31):
that I think most tellers of history don't particularly like
to talk about, because it doesn't have to do with
kind of all the all the nice anecdotal visual imagery
of spinning dradles and eating ilakas and Hanikah geltz the
little chocolate candies and all this stuff there. But there
was a fairly bloody civil war between on the one hand,
the Maccabees, who were ardence defenders of traditional Temple era Judaism,
(15:56):
and on the other hand you you had the Hellenizers,
those who were who were willing and at times often
eager to be culturally and geographically subsumed into Hellenistic society
into post Alexander the Great, really really Greek Syrian society
at that time. And as we all know, the reason
(16:16):
that we are celebrating the holiday, the reason that you
celebrate today is because the former prevailed over the latter,
because the defenders of art and traditionalism prevailed. So, as
something of a traditionalism and a nationalist myself, I care
deeply for the Hanukkah message, but I'm curious for your
take kind of just at the current moment we're in.
(16:38):
One of the debates that we're having is between on
the one hand, nationalism versus globalism. And it's important to
get these terms rights here. When I speak about nationalism
speaking of the importance of a particular identity, a particular inheritance,
a particular people, particular culture, particular plot of land, as
often the case there. And on the other hand, you
kind of have just just universalism in general, this notion
(17:01):
that culture's values, all of it is in flux and
we can just mix and match there. This is what
leads to such things, as you know, large scale immigration
from non European societies into Europe, and we're seeing that
come out in the United States there, so I'm curious
if you think that there is or not. Either is,
but what the what the broader take might be then
(17:23):
kind of looking at the story of the triumph of
traditionalist nationalism over ultra assimilated universalism in the Honkah story.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Look, Josh, I think you're spot on.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
And I even think pre October seventh people would have
had a harder time understanding this story.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
But since October.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
Seventh, we have seen literally that there are Jews that
fight for Israel, and there have been totally secular Jews that,
because of October seventh, have rejoined the Jewish people and
fought for Israel. And yet there are other Jews that
have supported the enemies of Israel and the enemies of
the Jewish people. And so you look back at this story,
that's exactly what happened with Judaemacaby. Judamaic was not only
fighting against the Greeks, but he was also fighting against
(18:04):
many Jews that were like, look, we should just give
up everything and just join them and just just you know,
be a.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Part of them.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
And I think that's samply you there's something special about
being a Jew, and we're supposed to be a light
into a nation. But if we don't exist and we
just assimilate and we just become a part of whatever
culture are in, we can't be that light onto nation.
We can't be that incredible beacon that that people look towards.
So I definitely think that's a big part of this story.
One of the things that hurts me and most since
October seventh is watching all these young Jews who don't know.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Their history, are not connected to our people.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
Basically, you know, anytime someone starts a sentence with as
a Jew, you know the rest is not going to
be any good, right, And so they basically kind of
handed our heritage put it to the side. We don't
deserve to have a heritage, but everyone else in the
world just does deserve, and we should just, you know,
just kind of dissipate.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
So I think you're spot on.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
I think that's why this story, and it's it's almost
comical when you see everyone commercialize it, but they don't
really understand what happened here. This was a fight for
the soul of the Jewish people and not allowing us
ourselves to just kind of melt away.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
So I think it's a very very important message.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
I think that people can celebrate who they are and
appreciate others, but you would need to know who you
are before you can do anything else.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Yeah, you have to know who you are, and you
have to know what values and principles your culture and society,
your civilization are ultimately built upon. And this is you know, rabid.
This is one of my biggest frustrations, just kind of
zooming out and looking at our broader, you know, geopolitical
climate right now. You know, my book that came out
earlier this year, Israel and Civilization, The Fate of the
Jewish Nation the Destiny of the West, begins with the
(19:36):
very simple premise actually, which is after the Hamas Pagrama
of October seven, twenty twenty three, and after the way
that the leading purported lights of Western society oftentimes reacted
in deeply confused fashion as to who was right and
who was wrong, who was good, who was bad, which
cause was just, which was unjust? That to me, that
(19:59):
evinced a a profound lack of ability to identify that
which birthed their civilization in the first place. Because when
you properly understand, as I do, Western civilization as the
outflow of the Biblical inheritance, then it ought to be
fairly clear who you are choosing here in a conflict
(20:19):
between between the free and flourishing state of Israel and
the Jewish people and this seventh century aspiring Stria supremacist
Islamic death Gold of Hamas on the other hand. So
that's a big part of my book. The commut is
just trying to kind of remind people this and try
to put Humpty dumpty back together again. I'm curious kind
of hearkening back to what you said a few moments
(20:39):
ago about the imperative of being a light onto the nations.
This famous, this famous exhortation from the Book of Isaiah,
one of the greatest books of the entire Hebrew Bible.
I am my estimation. Can you kind of kind of
weave these two strands together here? So on the one hand,
we have kind of Western civilization on the brink, doesn't
really know what it is or what it stands for.
(21:00):
Should it exist there or should we just kind of
welcome in non Western forces folks in Afghanistan, Syria, whatever.
Then what is the role then of of the of
the Jewish people to actually try to be a light
onto nations? And does that role have have salience not
just for the Jews, which of course it does, but
then also for really the broader fates of the West.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
Look, I think that the Jews have brought morality ethics
to the world. You know, we we literally brought it
out all the major religions, go back to Judaism, because
we were the ones that said that, you know, we
need to have laws and we need to have have
morale ethics. And even like you know today with the IDF,
you know, and it's almost the biggest joke in the
world because Israel, which is a democracy, you're looking at
all these dictatorships and you know, monarchies surround the Israel
(21:46):
that oppress their own people but are really good at
like keeping it off camera. And so Jews are are
really we have this ability to show the world and
so much of what we've done. You know, you you
look at Nobel prizes, right, Why have Jews won so
many Noble prizes?
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Right?
Speaker 3 (22:00):
And you can't say that someone created a vaccine just
for the Jewish people.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
They create a vaccine for the entire world. That We've
always been that light.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
We've always tried to do great things and every time
we've come to another country, we tried to build up
the country all the way back to the American Revolution.
You have him Solomon, who helped to fund the American Revolution, and.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
We went all the way back to the beginning.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
We've always tried to play that role and to help
that role, and people have been suspicious of us as
a result, because they need to have someone that they
can blame. They need to say, you know, if I'm
not doing well, it's got to be the Jews fault,
and therefore they've fallen into this anti semitism. Today, the
Internet and social media has made it much easier, and
we have so many enemies out there that are trying
Katar does not want anyone looking closely at them.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
It's the best thing to do is blame on the Jews.
I ran.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
It's the same in so many other other countries. But
we can never give up that being that light. It's
even more than that. You know, when you go to
these rallies, we always give this example. You know, you
go to an anti Asiera rally and you have burning
of flags and like people throwing things in violence.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
You go to a Jewish rally, you see and love.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
Right, we we're the people of love, and we can't
forget that, and we can't let them make haters of us.
And we had to be very careful to continue to
bring God's love to the world because that was what
Moses did with analyzing and Jacob, that's that's.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Who we are.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
We brought love to the world, and the Christians and
the Muslims, everyone came back to us and they used
our profits for that. So we have to be careful
not to get quoted dat to continue to be aligned
to nations.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
No matter how.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
Many times we get punched in the face, We're going
to jump back up and we're going to do the
right thing no matter what. We're going to defend ourselves
no matter what. But we're going to continue being that light.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Rab I see the Murga is the CEO of ASH,
a well known global Jewish houreach organization. They really do
fantastic work. If I don't say so myself, you know,
rabbit Berg, there's something of a of a of a contrast,
there's something of an interesting dichotomy when I look at
the at the current state of global jewelry, and I
can't help but chuckle, because global jewry was actually the
(23:56):
exact turn of phrase that that Nick Flent has us
in his recent time Carlston view. So I can't help
but but but smile and with this tongue in cheek
in case of global jew anyway, when I look at
actual global DREI like Jews around the world, I can't
help but know that there is that there is something
of a dichotomy between the the States, the flourishing of
(24:16):
Jews currently in the land of Israel, and and the
state of Jews in the in the broader diaspora, in
countries all all outside the land the land of Israel.
I'm talking here mostly outside of the United States. But
as I think the world has caught on too increasingly,
things are are are a little testy here in the
United States as well. I'm curious just because you're in
(24:39):
you're in Jerusalem. I'm curious just for your just for
your take on that. You know, what can we say
about this dichotomy? I guess do you accept that there
is this dichotomy is as stark as at times I
think that it is. What does that say? Is there
potentially even a theological or divine possible purpose that is
going on here? I kind of defer to you. You
you're the you're more of the expert on that, but
(25:00):
I guess it's even more, even more practically than I would.
Also be curious for our thoughts, if my premise is correct.
Why you think we're seeing it. Why you think we're
seeing this strong contrast between the flourishing of the Jews
currently in the Land of Israel versus the at times
plated of them outside of the Land of Israel.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
Yeah, I think one of the things it's so interesting
you mentioned Nick Puentes, you know, using World jew I
also canto that like he actually.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Has read us.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
I mean, he's abhorrent and disgusting and terrible, but he
he kind of uses our language. And I think one
of the struggles people had around the world and understanding
Jewish people is we don't fit into any box.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Right.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
We're not exactly just a nation, Right, We're not exactly
just a religion, and we're not even just a race
because you have Jews of all different colors, so no
one really knows what to do with us. And I
think post October seventh, really, I mean the definition I've
been using is family, right, we are literally family, and
I don't think the world quite understood that. You know,
(25:57):
when the Jews of Israel is suffering, I tell you,
I'm in is and I would go back and forth constantly,
and the Jews of Israel were always saying, you know.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Are Jews in America? Are they like?
Speaker 3 (26:06):
Do they know what's going on here? Are they focused?
I'm like, yes, they are very focused. And the Jews
of America sent a tremendous amount of philanthropy to support
the Jews of Israel in the following months because that
was family.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Our family's in trouble.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Now as I'm going from Israel to New York City,
people are worried about the Jews of New York City
from Israel because I ma'm Danie and all the horrific
things that are going on now in New York and
the anti Semitism, and so Jews are really concerned about
each other everywhere we go, no matter where. And by
the way, he storic with two thousand years, it's been
like that. Every time there's a Jew in trouble, the
(26:40):
Jews have their back, and everyone is a little like, oh,
we don't understand, you know, like, what's your connection, whether
your connection we're family, they.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
We're cousins, we're brothers, we're sisters.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
You know, when we lose that connection, that's when the
Jews are in trouble. And I think that one of
you know, one of the horrific things that we're seeing
in New York City is that they're trying to break
up the Jewish people saying no, no, I like Jews, I just.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Don't like Zionists, right, I don't like the people support Israel. Right.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
We can't let them define who we are right as
a Jew, Israel's your country, that's the bottom line. I mean,
our prayers, our Bible, everything is about that. You can't
take Israel out of the Jewish people. And so when
you do allow that to happen, then you start to
float away from the Jewish people and then you're gonna
be lost to us, and you're gonna be lost to
your family.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
And I think that's the tragedy here. And look at ash.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
Our job has been through the Enginet to try and
recapture so many unaffiliated Jews and say hey, you need
to know why you're Jewish because you have this incredible, warm,
beautiful family. You have family in Israel, you have family
in Brazil, you have family in England. You have family everywhere,
and so we need to stay strong and at the
Jews of any country are weakening, then it's a problem
for all of us and we have.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
To you know, we have to just lift each other up.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
I totally agree with that obviously. And you know, family
is a very interesting way to describe global Jewish people.
I think of it typically as being a nation. I
agree with you that don't don't as sssarily fit into
kind of the Western conceptions of a of a faith,
you know, you know, Christianity is more of faith. Judaism
is something slightly different. I typically refer to as a nation.
But but family actually is a very interesting interesting way
(28:11):
to put it as well. So again, folks, WHICHI was
with Rabbi Stephen Burke, he's the CEO of Aish, a
global Jewish outreach organization. I want to talk about because
again your location for ash I you know, for the
folks out there who have not been the Jerusalem. First
of all, I cannot encourage you enough if you have
the opportunity to try and go visit Jerusalem, whether you
are a Jew or Christian, you will have just an incredible,
(28:31):
amazing experience. And when you go to the western wall,
you will you will look, you will look directly across
from the western wall, directly westward, and you will see
you will, you will, you will see Asia's global headquarters.
It is some of the most magnificent real estate, frankly,
in the entire entire country of Israel. And on that note, Rabbi,
I can't help but think, especially this time of the year,
(28:53):
it's it's in the middle of Hanukah. For for our
Christian listeners and viewers, we're approaching Christmas in the notz
distant future. Sure here as well, there is this concerted effort.
You know, we mentioned flent as I briefly mentioned Tucker Carlson,
who's a frequent target of this particular program. You know,
there is this concerted effort to divorce the story of
Western civilization and really the story of America. Here in America,
(29:15):
but there's this effort to divorce the story of all
of that from the actual origins of Western civilization, from
the actual origins of the Bible.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
You know, there was this there was this remarkable recent
interview that Tucker Carlson gave to to Magan Kelly where
they're on stage together an event, and Tucker tried to
make the claim that it's actually just the New Testament,
the New Testament alone, which built America, which you know,
my base response to that is, you know, dude, go
to Philadelphia. Tell me what's on the Liberty bill in Philadelphia.
I mean, it's the Book of Leviticus, for goodness sake.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
There.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
I mean, there's there's, there's a there's a million examples
where that came from. There. It's just it's hard, it's
it's hard, frankly, to imagine that anyone intelligent could actually
believe this. But you know, I'm curious for I know
a lot of Jews who don't necessarily think of Judaism
as being part of Western civilization. They do think of
Western civilization as being more inherent and inherently Christian. I'm
(30:12):
curious for your for your take on that and how
you think that not just Judaism, but also the current
state of Israel, how the religion and the nation, how
they interact in your mind with the broader West.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
Exactly.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
Well, first of all, Josh, you had mentioned before that
you post your wife on our wife on our balcony
overlooking the Temple Mound. You know, I literally yesterday Bob Diner,
Bob Micheal Diener, they're the donors at balcony. Bob asked
how many engagements we've had since October seventh on that balcony,
And it's been over one hundred and fifty since October
seventh on that acophony.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
So it's a very special place we look out.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
But you know, I've told people that from nineteen forty
eight till nineteen sixty seven, if I was standing in
Age right overlooking the Temple mount as a Jew, I
would have been shot and killed right would not come
to the Old City. I could not worship at the
Western Wall. Since nineteen sixty seven, all three religions Islam, Christianity,
(31:09):
Judaism have freedom of worship, freedom of movement in the
Old City because of the Jewish state, because of Israel.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
Israel is the place that is holding it open.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
And I think that's something that gets totally lost in
the greater story. I could tell you that at Ash
we have many, many Christians and many Muslims come through
after peace was made with the UAE between the UAE
and Israel, so we had a flood of people from
the UAE coming, But they could not go to Temple
Mount because they would be harassed on the Temple Mount
by the Palestinians. They would come to ash literally we
(31:42):
were having flowing robes, you know, just coming up there,
and we walk on them with open arms. Because the
bottom line is that we have believed, the Jewish faith
has always believed that the Temple Mount is a place
for every single human being in the world to be
able to get close to God and to pray. That
is a space for everyone, and I think that it's
it's so important to remember this. And of course what
(32:05):
Tucker cross And said is not connected to all to religion.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
I mean, it's absurd.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
We all know, you know, everyone goes back to Abraham,
is the he start Monotheism for the entire world. Without Abraham,
everyone's sitting, you know, worshiping stone idols, and so it's
just so absurd, and it just it tries to fit
a narrative, it doesn't really fit any truth. So you know,
as far as us being there, we're thrilled to whole
to host non Jews, thrilled to our brothers and sisters,
(32:33):
our cousins as I affectionately refer to them. We encourage
them to come and they should worship. And it's only
going to happen as long as Israel is the hair
in the Old City. If anyone else takes over that spot,
believe me, people are going to be slaughtered again and
they won't be allowed to worship.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
And you know, sometimes I hear folks who know pound
their chests and they call themselves America First, and they,
you know, invariably propagate policies that have the effects of
undermine Israel more broadly, and especially oftentimes undermining Israel's claims
two things like the Old City of Jerusalem to Jday
and Samaria, the Biblical homeland and so forth more generally.
(33:09):
And I oftentimes just really struggle, and I say, what
exactly I mean taking this is face value taking on
its own terms, Like, explain to me what the quote
unquote America first case is. What is the America first
case for giving the plo, for giving Hamas, giving a
Ron whoever, you know, you know, de facto if not
ds your actual legal control over the holy sites of
(33:31):
all three Abrahamic religions. I mean, like, what exactly is
the America first claim for carving out yet another you know,
radical Muslim terrorist state in the heart of the Middle East.
I mean, I mean, the logic really falls frankly on
on its own face, and I've never really quite understood it.
It just doesn't necessarily resonate with me. I guess one
(33:55):
additional question for you. Look, I mean, again, as we
begin to wrap our conversation here, we're in the middle
of Hanukkah, which is this story of mccabee in Triumph.
There is the sense that you get from front from
Israel that the United States and the West more generally
are perhaps maybe not as staunch reliable supporters as as
(34:16):
they would have been as recently as ten twenty years ago.
I'm sure you're you've been in many conversations where this
comes up and you're and you're grappling this. And the
reason I asked that is not to be dower, but
because I think that there's something to be said for
them kind of doubling down in kind of this Maccabean
kind of Honkkah esque, you know, fortitude that you know
we're here, we're not going anywhere. So I'm curious if
(34:37):
you've had those conversations and if it kind of relates
to this mccabean mentality that I'm talking about here.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
Yeah, Look, I.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
Think the Israelis feel that America has their back because
of President President Donald Trump.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
I was in the connects that when he spoke, people.
Speaker 3 (34:50):
Feel very much that he has their back, that he
has had their back, and they've watched it and they
you know, the hostages, we're still waiting on one.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
But like they came back.
Speaker 3 (35:00):
He kept his promises, you know, the America First folks,
And I think there is a little nervousness is what
comes next, who comes next? And their take on that,
But you know, America First, they just it's so immature
that those folks, they don't understand. They're like, America First.
You can still have allies, you can have friends. Doesn't
mean you threw everyone to the size. You know, when
(35:20):
with the battle with Iran, everyone said, oh, it's gonna
be horrible, It's gonna be terrible. What happened was Israel
controlled the skies, took care of everything, so America was
able to come over and take care of these nuclear
power plants that frankly, people in the street were yelling
death through America over a way more than death to
Israel and America was able to go over there and
and no loss of anything because.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
Israel had and that's what happens.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
Allies paved the way and then you can come and
do what you need to do and keep your soldiers safe.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
So there's just this.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
Immaturity and lack of understanding of what an ally actually means.
Right when you have aligned interest that America could be
first and Israel could be first, that's actually okay because
they have these alne values. They've always been together traditionally,
and so I you know, demanies America first. Folks you
know on the internet, they're just trying to, you know,
just rack up followers or play to the crowd and
(36:10):
stuff like that. But I think people and is on
number one is they have a lot of faith in
President Donald Trump. But yes, I believe there is concern
that some of the politicians following the next president, who
the next president is going to be, are they going
to kowtow to the Tucker Carlson's of the world or horribly,
the Nick Puentes and all these other crazies out there,
or are they going to stick to the values of
(36:32):
monotheism of they shared heritage and history.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
We have, in which case we can we can be
productive for many, many years to come.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
Yeah, there's arguably even stronger case we made for the
the Iran War, the Twelve Day War as Trump called,
that just happened in June. So you you correctly know
that the United States effectually went in for the for
the coup de gras, for the for the death blow
at the ends with these B two bombers, this thirty
seven hour flight from Missouri, they go, they drop, they
drop the bunkerbuster bomb on Fordau and elsewhere, and then
(37:01):
they fly right back to Missouri. And they did that
off of the predicad that the that the IDF, that
the IDF laid down by taking out high ranking Irani
in generals and air defense and all the various things
that allowed those B two bombers to just glide in
glide out. It's arguably even stronger than that though, because
let's not forget that, for a very very long time,
(37:22):
Iran's insurance policy when it came to the nuclear program
was Hesbala was the Shia supremacist Jihadis group there on
Israel's northern border in Lebanon. But by the time that
this all went down, this past June, Hesbala was close
to eradicated, and not not literally of eradicated. There's still
has Boala today, but they are seriously, seriously grievously wounded
(37:44):
and Hassan ma Asraala, the decades long leader of Hesbala
very I mean, essentially the entire organizational hierarchy, the entire
organizational float chart was taken out and kind of a
Michael Croleoni Godfather esque revenge spree by Israel in the
summer of twenty twenty four. So all of that then
allowed for Israel to do the initial dirty work in Iran,
and then after that came the United States with the
(38:07):
B two bombers. So it really is kind of a
beautiful example as to what this tag team dynamic duo
can look like in practice. You know, I was meeting
with a US senator in September. I won't say his
name because it was all off the record and so
forth there, and he asked me, he said, Josh, what
is definition of an ally? I said, Centator, I will
give you a very clear, easy to define, an easy
(38:31):
to apply definition of an ally. The definition is this.
The definition is that where you have another country and
when the other country acts in its own national interests,
that that then has the secondary effect of benefiting your
national interest. That's an ally, and he liked it, and
he said, Okay, I'm going to go run with that.
I'll talk my colleagues, so we'll see. But I mean,
(38:52):
it seems to me that pretty much every quote you
look at, especially given the iron example that we just discussed,
it seems to me that that Israel fits that definition
certainly bear than nay of the country, and the read
I mean, really about as well as any of the
country in the world. So hopefully, hopefully that that argument
carries water. So Rabitt, before I let you go, I
guess I would be remiss if I didn't ask for
any kind of just you know, that was something of
(39:12):
an admittedly some of a downar question. I just asked
you there, and I think you handle it with a
plumb But let's let's let let's end on optimistic note.
To me, Hanukah is one of the quintessential optimistic holidays,
again because the Jewish people were on the precipice of
being eradicated, as has often been the case throughout Jewish history,
and they they survive, they recover, their traditions. It's a
(39:35):
story of hope and traditionalism and nationalism there. So, you know,
as we as we now are in the midst of Hanukkah,
and there's a lot of people, especially here, I think
in the United States, who are really kind of fretting
and wondering what comes next.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
There.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
I'm wondering if you have any kind of you know,
you know, parting message of inspiration or hope for you know,
really for the audience.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
Yeah, look, God loves the Jewish people. I have to
tell you that that God really loves us. God has
blessed us. You know, we started with Judah Maccabee.
Speaker 3 (40:00):
You know, I look around at the young men and
women in Israel and the IDP. I have two nephews,
you know, the special forces that fought the last two years.
There's such promise, you know, there is such promise.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
You know.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
Khaniko was about keeping Israel strong and staying there and
being able to worship the way we want to worship.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
And that's what's going on today.
Speaker 3 (40:21):
And there's so many incredible young Jews, and I have seen,
especially since October seventh, so many Jews inspired to reach
out to God, to reach out to Israel, to defend
the Jewish people, to defend Israel. I don't think the
future has ever been brighter there before. Yeah, I mean,
there are anti Semites around the world, but frankly they've
been for the last two thousand years.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
But we haven't been back in our own country. We
haven't been back in Israel.
Speaker 3 (40:44):
You know, just show up in Israel, just walk the streets,
go buy a doughnut filled with custard, you know, on
the streets of Ben you Hood in Jerusalem and Tel Aviv,
and you see just smiles and happiness, and Israel every
single year when's a war to being one of the
most happy places in the world because we're at peace
with who we are. We're paid peace with each other,
(41:05):
we're in peace with the Almighty, with God, and that's
where we need to be.
Speaker 2 (41:08):
And if anyone, you know, kind of mess with that,
we'll deal with it. But the bottom line is ultimately
being a Jew is great and we're going to do
great continue to do great things for the world.
Speaker 1 (41:16):
And I would argue only by the Jewish people being
a light unto the nations, which in my personal reading
of that verse means actually following the law, actually obeying
God and following his rules, actually doing the commandments, doing
the mits votes as we call them. There really really
that I think is a necessary condition really for the flourishing,
not merely of the Jewish people, but really really for
(41:39):
for Western civilization. Frankly, I would argue the whole world. So,
Rabbi stephen Berg, what a pleasure this has been. Rabbi
Sienberg again, folks. One final time is the CEO of
Aish can follow their work over at ash Google then
they do wonderful Jewish outreach work. Wishing you again a
Honica samanaka happy Honkah, thank you so much for joining
the Josh Hammer Show.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
Thank you Josh, Happy God, Bless God.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
Bless you too, and thank you as always for watching
today's episode of The Josh Hammer Show.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
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