March 21, 2025 • 59 mins
What happens when a man survives a childhood coma, endures years of abuse, and still emerges with unshakable gratitude and purpose? James W. Officer III's remarkable journey unfolds through what he calls "five chapters" – from being a sickly baby given no chance of normal development, to becoming a purpose-driven man who wakes each day with profound appreciation for life itself.
The conversation takes unexpected turns as James reveals how African-American studies in college became the spark that illuminated his identity after years of darkness. "I went from being ashamed of slavery to thinking – oh my gosh, these people survived that, my people survived that," he shares, describing the transformative power of discovering his heritage. This revelation becomes the foundation for his philosophy that trust begins within: "The trust I have for me usurps any lack of trust for anyone else."
Perhaps most powerful is James's perspective on stress as the silent killer of Black men – "the PTSD of being a Black man in America kills more Black men than guns or drugs or alcohol combined." His solution? Daily practices of gratitude and mindfulness that have become his personal fountain of youth. The episode culminates with a moving analogy about "load-bearing walls" in life's architecture – a metaphor that brought a young man to tears when James shared it, and likely will resonate deeply with anyone carrying invisible burdens.
Whether you're wrestling with past trauma, searching for purpose, or simply need a reminder that gratitude transforms everything, this episode delivers raw truth alongside practical wisdom. Listen now and discover why James believes he'll die not from illness or accident, but simply "because I'm done" – when his purpose is fulfilled and his contribution complete.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I emerged from that coma and, yeah, there were some
absolute issues.
That I experienced is that I am95% blind in my left eye, and
so for most people that wouldlook at me and say, oh, poor guy
with the cock eye don't knowthat, it is a testimony that I
was dead and I'm alive.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
All right, welcome to another edition of the Journey
to Freedom podcast.
I'm Dr Bion, your host, and, asalways, I get excited because
we get to talk to people who aremaking a difference, making
things happen.
We get to talk to people whoare making a difference, making
things happen.
I was just uh, you know, I wasjust doing a um, uh interview
for, you know, these peoplethey're like who's who in
america or something like that,and, uh, I thought this is a
(00:53):
cool, you know, and she spentlike 45 minutes with me and
asking all these questions.
But she was asking me what isit that you want to leave as a
legacy, you know?
And I said well, you know, 120years.
That's all we got, because noneof us will be alive, we'll all
be gone, and all all that we'veleft behind is our little
footprint of you know, themillion years that the earth has
(01:15):
been here, you know, in thislittle 100 year front so what is
?
it.
I said well, I want to helppeople um live their purpose,
why they're here, and enjoy itand be fulfilled and be
successful.
And so, as I was talking toJames before the show today, I
just said what are you mostexcited about?
And he said I'm excited thatI'm here, I'm excited that I get
(01:36):
to wake up every single day andstart it over, I'm excited that
when I go to bed, that I saythe same thing Thank you for an
amazing day, thank you that Iwas able to just the
appreciation and the gratitude.
And if we could live you know,if you think about this if we
could live a life of gratitude,if we could live a life of
service, if we could live a lifewhere we care more about our
(01:58):
fellow man than we do aboutourselves, our world would
change in a day, in 24 hours.
I don't believe we would havewars that are still going on 24
hours, we would have kindness,and yet we spend our days.
I mean, somebody I had a gueston yesterday told me that 74% of
people that are in theworkforce right now do not like
(02:22):
their jobs, and I'm like, wow,how do you go through life?
40 years, 50 years, waiting forretirement, waiting for Fridays
, waiting for weekends,anesthetizing yourself with
alcohol and marijuana andwhatever else on weekends so you
don't have to cope with whatlife has.
(02:42):
And then you get up every dayand say I am so happy that I got
to open my eyes this morning.
And so when we think aboutJourney to Freedom, when we
think about where our, you know,I took 18 Black men to Alabama
a couple, three weeks ago and wegot to go through a civil
rights tour.
We got to see where some of thefolks that we talk about all
(03:04):
the time Shuttleworth and MLK Jrand all these guys that were, I
guess, predecessors of the lifethat we get right now and we
got to stand on the corners andwe got to see and be in Alabama
and just go.
Wow, some of this feels likeI'm still back in 1970.
Some of the ways that it is.
(03:25):
But then to go, you know what Iget to do today?
I got to get up and even when Iwas there in a hotel room, I
got to get up and take a shower.
I didn't.
When I walked outside, whetherthey thought it or not, they
didn't tell me I shouldn't bethere.
They didn't tell me that youknow, a white kid could go get
my car and bring it to me fromthe valet.
(03:46):
Right, that didn't happen.
Right what they're doing right.
Oh my God, what an incredibletime it is, and so I've asked
James to tell a story.
I do like to tell everybodyelse.
Start wherever you want in thehistory, because this is your
story, and so I can't wait tohear them.
We're going to chop it up.
(04:07):
After that.
We're going to have some fun,incredible time while we're here
.
So, james, the floor is you,it's yours.
This is James W, officer III.
And I even forgot where youlived in Texas or something
right.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Indianapolis, indianapolis, indianapolis.
See how close.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
I was.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
You were super close, dr b all right well, go ahead
and tell us your story.
So I uh, first of all, abs,thank you for, uh, letting me be
a part of this conversation.
I know that it has been ongoingand will continue, and I'm just
so grateful to be a part of it.
And, like, literally, you askedme to tell my story and I
(04:47):
thought, oh, wow, right, whereyou know, where do you start and
how do you?
What do I say that may or maynot have the most impact, and I
I determined in a couple secondsthat it wasn't my business to
determine what wouldn't, whatwill and what won't have impact,
but rather just to share.
And so, very quickly, I thoughtabout my life in about five
chapters.
Ok, I'm going to share a littlebit from each of those chapters
(05:10):
and that'll be a pretty goodsummary.
Chapter one is sick.
I was a very sickly baby.
In fact, I was diagnosed withhydrocephalus, that's water on
the brain, and as a result ofthat yes, diagnosed with
hydrocephalus, that's water onthe brain, and as a result of
that, yes, and as a result ofthat, I entered a three month
(05:33):
long coma.
The prognosis was not very goodat all, that my parents were
told that if I did emerge fromthis coma, I would be basically,
you know, a vegetable, was theycalled it in the seventies.
Right, I would.
I would not be able to takecare of myself or any of those
things.
I emerged from that coma and,yeah, there were some absolute
issues that I experienced, butwhat remains from that,
(05:54):
basically, is that I am 95%blind in my left eye and that's
a lazy eye.
And so for most people thatwould look at me and say, oh,
poor guy with the cock eye,don't know that, it is a
testimony that I was dead andI'm alive, that I was told I
would be a vegetable but I wasan athlete and a bit of a
scholar right, at least average.
(06:14):
And so all the things, all theprognosis were wrong and what I
have as a testimony, as a medalif you will, is a lazy eye that
I can't see out of.
That's chapter one.
Chapter two is abused.
There are 10 ACEs AdverseChildhood Experiences.
I won't line them out, I won'tname them, but I will tell you
(06:37):
that nine of them are attributedto my life and, in fairness, to
my sister's life as well.
And so we were in a, and itwasn't a biological parent but
rather a step parent.
Very very abusive in every waythat you can imagine, from the
time I was 10 years old untilthe time I was too big to be
picked on, right yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Yeah, and you had enough.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
And that didn't happen, yeah.
So I left for college butendured and watched my mom
endure those things, and theseare things I wouldn't have
talked about years ago yeah, dueto the shame of it, but
realizing that, why not?
I didn't do it, it wasn't myfault.
So the need to talk about it isthen to swallow someone else's
book.
I won't, I'll refrain, but it'sto swallow somebody else's
(07:22):
stuff and so what I won't do isswallow someone else's stuff to
protect whatever, when thatwould only impact me in a
negative way.
So that was chapter two, whichleads to chapter three, which
was lost.
I was a college student.
I was fortunate enough to be atschool to play football, but I
was so confused I didn't have aclue of what I was going to.
(07:45):
I was talking to a dear friendyesterday that I went to college
without a clue of what I wantedto do, what I wanted to major
in.
Of course I thought I was goingto the NFL.
That didn't happen.
Everybody right?
Yeah, that didn't happen.
I didn't have a clue.
I literally picked my major, drB, because it sounded difficult
, because I didn't want to beseen as a dumb jock.
I majored in aerospacetechnology, not because I was
(08:09):
interested in it, but because Ithought, man, if I'm going to be
in that I don't want to beconsidered a dumb jock In my
freshman year.
That abusive person I talkedabout in my life shot my mother.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Shot her.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Fortunately she wasn't killed, but she was
injured badly.
Now to see her today in her 70s.
The only way you know she wasshot is she's missing the index
finger on her right hand.
But the scars on her face arecompletely healed.
But obviously there are scarsthere.
That last a lifetime.
And so that just catapulted meinto you know, heavy drinking.
(08:45):
And I mean just completely lostfootball, went to he double
hockey sticks and I barely madeit out of college.
That's chapter three.
Chapter four is found, um, as avery so so I.
I graduated may, may 3rd 1992as an undergrad, may 3rd 1992 as
(09:05):
an undergrad.
I was married on May 23rd.
I'll do that math for you.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Two weeks after I got a degree, I was married.
I got married before I finishedmy degree.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Yeah, I was married.
And just to push ahead, I'mstill married to that girl today
, almost 33 years later.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Congratulations to push ahead.
I'm still married to that girltoday almost 33 years later,
congratulations.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
But in that time again, I didn't know where I
wanted to do, where I wanted tobe, but it was something about
her, I felt.
I felt that I felt that I foundmy family, and so in that I was
encouraged.
Now we, we had kids veryquickly.
By the time I was 26, we hadthree.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Wow, yeah by the time I was 26,.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
We had three Wow yeah , by the time I was 30, we had
our fourth and final child, whoare all adult now and living
their lives.
So very proud of them, and evensix grandchildren.
So very, very blessed in somany ways.
But it was chapter four that Iwas found.
I found my faith, I found mywife, I found some footing, I
(10:03):
found a village, even though Ihad connected in college.
I pledged a fraternity.
I did all those things.
I had friends, I had people who, I believe, cared for me and
saw was.
It was essentially because thosefirst, first three chapters
(10:27):
Right and so so, after beingfound, I would say chapter five
is redeemed and that that youknow that I won't get into the
details because that's a longchapter there, probably the last
20 years or so.
I would call that chapterredeemed, and not because of my
career, not because of the jobsI've had the last decade.
(10:49):
I've been on my own as anentrepreneur, but even prior to
that I had great jobs,high-level positions, all of
those things.
But that's not why I'm sayingredeemed.
I'm saying redeemed in chapterfive because I have a very clear
identity.
I know exactly who I am, I knowexactly why I am here and I also
know that I am designedanatomically to give.
(11:12):
I am a giver and there's no wayI can get around it
anatomically in a smart wayanyway.
But the point I'm making isthat I understand and have
embrace the notion that we'vebeen designed to give and in
that, interestingly andmiraculously, is how we receive
(11:33):
the most, that my deepest desireis philanthropy, because I
understand that there's no waythat I can outgive the creator.
Now, whether you're a person offaith or not, you don't have to
believe in God, to believe thatprinciple, because God's
principles are infallible,sovereign and they don't need
(11:53):
you to believe them.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
They work, they work, no matter yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
Don't need you to believe them.
It is what it is.
And so, living this redeemedspace, it is just not about me.
It is so much bigger than meand I'm convinced, dr B, that I
will not die because I'm ill.
I will not die of some terribleaccident.
I'm convinced of this, I havemanifested this and I know my
(12:20):
future in this way.
I won't die because of somesickness, some accident.
Future in this way.
I won't die because of somesickness, some accident,
something horrendous.
I will die because I'm done.
When I go, it's because thecreator is finished with me.
You've done your work.
Son, come on.
Whether that's 70 or 80 or 60,whatever that is, it's going to
be peaceful, it's going to bequiet and it's going to be
(12:40):
beautiful, because my work willbe done and the world will be
better, because I was here.
Wow, that is so cool, that'll bechapter six lifted, all right,
I love it, let's get six, sevenand eight.
Thank you for letting me dothat man.
I've never done that in life,so thank you for putting me on
the spot to tell my story.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Well, one of the things on chapter five, and then
I'll go back to some of theother ones.
But chapter five, it made methink.
When you said I'm done, I wasthinking of like David the king
Right.
I was thinking that he, hefaced Goliath knowing that God
had already ordained him to bethe king the king right, so he
(13:30):
knew when he stood up there.
There was no way that Goliathcould kill me because I'm not
done and I think about your liferight there.
You got to have like a lease onlife.
That is so amazing because youknow you're not done.
So it affects all the decisionsyou make.
It affects because you're notworried about oh, this could be
over.
You're like no, I love it.
All right, chapter six.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Thank you, man.
I love, I love that analogy.
It's not even an analogy, Imean, that's an allegory right
Based on what we're living, andI find so much inspiration in
understanding the connectivityof time and I think that that.
So chapter six and this is thelast chapter, cause I'm in it
(14:10):
right now beyond redeemed isunderstanding.
I'm in a space of my life whereI just get it.
I have seen enough things cyclethat I understand that there is
truly nothing new under the sun, literally nothing.
And it makes me now become I'ma bit of a history buff, because
now, when the most phenomenalthing happens, I go look for
(14:32):
where it's happened before, andI've not failed yet in finding
some semblance of it.
I'll give you a real timeexample right now.
Yesterday, a friend and I weretalking about the Reconstruction
period in America as it relatedto the freed slaves and what
happened in that time.
And in that 15-year period orso, land was acquired, positions
(14:56):
were gained, all kinds ofamazing things were happening to
those newly freed slaves.
And then there was a shift inthe country where it was like,
yeah, enough of that.
And then comes along Plessyversus Ferguson and Jim Crow,
and then all those things, andso nearly a hundred years goes
by, and then around 1910, excuseme, 2010, there was this real
(15:18):
resurgence of diversity in theworkplace and a real
conversation beyond affirmativeaction.
It was hey, here's value anddiversity, here's value and
inclusion.
And now there are positionscreated and affinity groups
created, and then for so for thelast 15 years it's been amazing
, it's been reconstruction, asecond reconstruction for
(15:41):
minorities, and, of course,other groups have been added to
that.
I don't mean to leave anyone out, but I'm just talking to the
black man that now, here in 2025, we've come to the end of a
second reconstruction.
Now somebody would say, james,that's a stretch, bro, but I
don't know.
I don't know.
I'll say one more thing, dr B,that if we look at what people
(16:02):
did at the end of the firstreconstruction, that if we look
at what people did at the end ofthe first reconstruction, that
was when we had Black WallStreet and other communities
like it.
That's when the HBCUs werebuilt.
That's when so much emerged,when Black people were told no,
are you separate?
All these wonderful thingshappened.
Here we have a chance to lookat history and say, huh, what
(16:24):
did they do at the end ofReconstruction, when it looked
like all heck was breaking loose.
Oh, what can we do at the endof the second Reconstruction
when it looks like all heck isbreaking loose?
Okay.
I'll stop there man, because ohno.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
And I love where the conversation's going because
it's so true.
It's like wait a minute.
And it all is based on thisbelief that there's lack, right,
because we've sort of gotteninto the God of abundance.
But in our world, in oursystems that are created are all
created based on a finiteresource that's available and
(16:54):
everybody has to fight for thesefinite resources.
And if I give you some of myresources, that means I don't
have them anymore and notrealizing there's enough
resources for both of us to doso much more, but we'll spend
our time talking and puttingtogether and coming up with new
(17:15):
systems to make sure that youdon't get what I have or you
don't take it away from me.
It's so mind-boggling.
I think, the biggest differencein.
You know, as we're just havingthis conversation, I'll go back
a little bit, but the biggestdifference in the first
reconstruction and thereconstruction now is our
(17:36):
intelligence, or our collectiveintelligence, or our ability to
acquire knowledge, whereas whenthe slaves were coming out of
slavery, many of them hadn'tacquired an education, even an
understanding of where they wereat in the world or what their
opportunities were now, andthat's why they had to start
developing Black Wall Street.
(17:57):
And you know, some of them knewwhat they were doing and we
started.
You know, as we were segregated, we said wait a minute, we know
what to do and we started doingit and now we started attaining
Right.
So, after the reader, we startedtaking a wait a minute.
We need to integrate now, andthen, when we integrate, we're
going to make sure that we takeyou to our schools and we don't
teach you.
You're already teachingyourself and you guys are being
(18:23):
successful, because you'realready teaching yourself and
you guys are being successful.
So, no, let's put you in ourschools and then we'll make sure
you sit in the back room.
We don't teach you, right.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
I shouldn't be laughing at that.
It's the way you said it.
It's the way you laid it out,man.
That's exactly the scenario,man.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Oh, and then what we're going to do is your
families are to, your familiesare so strong, your families are
doing so well, your communityis doing so well, let's take the
family away, you know.
And then so we're going to take, we're going to take dads out
of the house, then we'll dobathroom cars.
There's just so many things andI don't know, and as we
progress and I hear what's goingon, we can't have a belief of
(19:07):
fear.
We can't have this fear thatgoes around, because there is so
much opportunity, there is somany things, that we have
conversations like this.
You know, on Sunday nights I doone that's called why Love Waits
, and you know we're working onthe family unit and saying why
is it that 50 percent of blackwomen that are over the age of
(19:28):
40 have never been married?
What?
What is happening with that?
50 percent of black women overthe age of 40 have never been
married and of that 50 percent,75 percent of them have at least
one child.
So that kind of tells you whatthe family unit is.
So we have to have theseconversations where we're
(19:50):
talking about how do we makesure that this and what has
happened in the past doesn'trepeat itself, because we are in
positions that we can make sureit doesn't happen.
Yes, whoever the president is,he doesn't have enough power.
No, I mean, he can fire somefederal folks, but he fires one,
(20:11):
he has to fire them all.
He can say that the federalgovernment isn't going to do DEI
, which I don't even think heunderstands what it is.
In fact, he knows exactly whatit is, but he doesn't want it to
be part of him.
But that doesn't mean, you know, I was talking to the president
of our NAACP here the other day.
We do a bunch of stuff togetherand he says I still think
(20:34):
businesses want to support blackbusinesses.
And I'm like, of course they do.
So what's the spirit of fear?
That as long as we cometogether, we're doing stuff.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
So I'll get off my portion of the soapbox, you said
a lot of great things, andthat's that's, uh, what I mean
when I say understanding, right,I I don't leap to conclusions
anymore, I leap to understandand and I do that with great
intention.
I just I don't react to anything, and that's just due to the
(21:10):
chapter that I am in my life andyou know, I have this notion.
I have a visual related toabundance versus scarcity.
You touched on that, and thevisual that I have, dr B, is
that there is a sea of abundance, literal ocean of abundance
right, that all of us haveaccess to on any given day, and
we have the option.
(21:31):
No one's dictating to us, noone's telling us what to use.
We have the option to take athimble to the sea of abundance
or to back a dump truck up tothe sea of abundance.
Nobody tells us which one totake, but how we decide to view
and approach the sea ofabundance in impacts how we live
and what we, the way we see theworld.
(21:52):
I see that there to your pointthat there is so much that I
can't even fathom a world wherethere is scarcity.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
There isn't, and when one technology or one resource
is depleted, we're creativeenough and ingenuitive enough.
I don't know what that rightword is.
And heating that we had in theworld had to come from well,
(22:24):
blubber.
Well, okay, there's no morewells, so let's go dig and we'll
get diamonds for us, right?
And then the dinosaur will rundown.
We'll go, We'll create anothertechnology.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Yeah, it is amazing.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
The sun's not going nowhere.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
No.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
So you know I miss the sun, you know the wind's not
going nowhere, right?
So, yeah, it just.
It boggles my mind sometimes tothink that, um, we have to deal
with lack, and that you haveconversations, and one of the
things that you just said thatjust piqued my thought is you're
in a spot where you're able tolisten now so that you can be
(23:00):
understood, so that that you canunderstand.
So many people listen torespond.
I've already got my responsebefore I even heard what you
said, and they're trying tocreate their world, which you
know.
It's okay to create your world,but what our world would be like
if we were able to listen firstwith both of our ears instead
(23:21):
of our mouth, before we everrespond?
And so, oh my gosh, one of thequestions I want to ask you,
though, because you brought itup, was identity, and you said
now you understand your identityand who you are, and I kind of
feel like the same way, but Iwant to hear that journey of
identity, because I can'timagine that identity when you
(23:44):
were being abused is the sameidentity that you have now, or
that identity you have when youwere lost is the same identity
when you were found.
And so what was thatprogression that you were able
to figure out what this identitylooks like?
Speaker 1 (24:01):
Wow, that is a great question, so I'll tell it.
I'll tell this backward reallyquickly, because now I can see
so clearly how these thingshappen.
There's a gentleman by the nameof Dr Mark Gullion.
He is a former physicsprofessor at Harvard.
(24:24):
This gentleman his work hasbeen in physics and quantum
physics Also also a Emmy winningjournalist.
Ok, he was an atheist, who?
Speaker 2 (24:42):
who moved?
Speaker 1 (24:43):
into a space of faith in God based on science, and
because he learned throughscience that faith is as
scientific as it is spiritual,that particles come together as
you see them, not becausethey're already there.
In other words, he provedthrough science that believing
is seeing.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
Not seeing is believing.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
And so with that, I understand that I was believing.
Based on all the things aroundme, I was being defined by
everything that I couldn't seebeyond what I believed about me.
So I believed I was a sicklykid who's now an abused
(25:30):
adolescent and preteen, andthat's what I believe.
So everything I saw Dr B,confirmed that it's a true
saying that you go where you'relooking.
It's called target fixation.
If you're driving along and youare looking at potholes, you're
going to hit every darn pothole.
You don't want to hit thepothole.
(25:51):
Look away from the pothole,right, you go where you're
looking.
So I know I'm telling the story,but I'm telling it backwards to
say I know now why I didn'thave a sense of identity,
because the things that I wasseeing was based on what I
believed about me.
So, fast forward, I find my wayto college and I land in an
(26:13):
African-American studies 101.
And that is the beginning ofthe light.
That's the light switch that Ilearned about me, a perspective
that I'd never, ever been taught.
I knew about slavery.
I knew I was a slave.
I knew after a slave, dr King,was born.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Yeah, there we go.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Yes, that's what I knew about me that I was
prohibited from reading andwriting and all those things,
terrible things.
And then Dr King came and had adream, and now we're all free,
we get to sit here in thisclassroom together.
That was my.
So then what did I see?
What I believed, when I startedto read about not just the
(27:03):
contributions of Black peoplebut the resilience.
All of a sudden, I went fromashamed of slavery oh my gosh,
these people survived that, mypeople survived that.
It was a complete shift, man,in my mindset.
So it went from there and I'llstop there, because you can kind
of follow that trajectory.
But it started with the out ofcontrol orbit of a lack of
(27:29):
identity, started with me beinggiven a specific orientation
from an origin that was otherthan what had been shown to me.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
And that I mean that confirms me taking that trip.
And I don't know if you've everbeen to the Equal Justice
Museum in Montgomery, yet Idon't know if you've ever been
to the Equal Justice Museum inMontgomery.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
Yet I have not when I take my next trip.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
You need to come with me on it.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
I will Lock it in Brian.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Stevenson put together this unbelievable
museum that starts out with theAfrican American slave trade and
then goes into integration andmass incarceration.
And, oh my gosh, integrationand mass incarceration.
Oh, my gosh All the things, allthe things.
But I love it because when wethink about our identities and
we think of what shapes who weare and the people that we hang
(28:20):
around and being able to move up, because sometimes I think we
get stuck in this belief that wecan't move forward or that
we're not enough- oh, man, youknow and I heard a definition
the other day.
I'd love for you to respond toit.
The definition was of enough,and enough is not an amount.
Enough is a relationship withwhere you're at right now and I
(28:44):
had to start thinking throughthat.
I'm like enough is not anamount.
I don't because we will neverhit the amount, because we
always want more.
But if we can create whateverthe relationship we is now
doesn't mean we don't want tostrive for more.
But it's enough for right now.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
Maybe you just respond as you process that a
little bit, just really quickly,because we already talked about
it, dr b.
Uh, which came to me when yousaid that, and I'll say it
quickly, I don't have to take upthe air but gratitude, that's.
That's the relationship, bro.
Like that's what I thought whenI, when you said a relationship
(29:20):
of what you have, I thatrelationship, if it's gratitude,
it's enough.
So I love that that was awesome.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
It's enough.
I love that.
That was awesome.
As I've been pondering it thelast, I don't know two or three
weeks at least.
Every day, when I get up, I'mgoing.
I'm enough, this is enough.
Now where can I go?
Because I'm not living in thatblack, which is so cool.
I want to talk about trust alittle bit, because your history
leads to being in that black,which is so cool.
(29:50):
Yes, so let's talk about trusta little bit, because your, your
history leads to not trusting,and it's not.
You know, sometimes we think oftrust as black men.
If I don't trust, you knowwhite folks, or I don't trust
you know the, the systems in thesociety, and and it almost
hinders us and stops us.
But in your story you have thislong abuse and I'm assuming it
(30:14):
wasn't from a white man, I'massuming from somebody that just
looks just like us.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
That, for whatever reason, decided that he had to
take out his pain on hischildren, out his pain on his
children.
So you come out of that and yougo to college and you're around
folks and how do you trust thatthe folks now that are
(30:40):
different than where you're atare going to be good to you?
What kind of examples of stuffdid you have that allowed you to
trust?
Speaker 1 (30:52):
of examples of stuff did you have that allowed you to
trust is so, so important, yeah, so one of the things that was
consistent through all of that Imean from the time I was, I
think eight is when I startedwas team sports.
Okay, uh, so I had team sportsfrom eight years old into
college.
So I always had teammates that,while I wasn't an open book at
all, I felt, I felt safe, Itrusted them as much as I could
(31:15):
trust them in the space that wewere in, and so that kind of
lasted into into college as well.
And then, beyond sports, Iconnected with a group of men in
a fraternity.
And then, beyond sports, Iconnected with a group of men in
a fraternity.
So in my second year in schoolI became part of a fraternal
organization and so againestablishing that bond and that
(31:38):
brotherhood, because it was areal need for me that I didn't
identify it as such.
I just thought these guys arecool, I want to be a part of it.
But there was absolutelysomething missing for me and I
didn't trust.
I did so poorly early on inschool because I didn't speak
out in class, I didn't trustthat I would be heard and
(32:00):
received, I didn't go talk toprofessors.
Are you kidding me?
There's no way.
I was going to talk to thembecause I didn't trust that they
had my back.
And again, it wasn't untilfound chapter four, I think, or
that I realized that all theseyears, because of a variety of
circumstances, dr B, it was methat I didn't trust.
So the journey was to trust me,and so, now that I've been on
(32:26):
that path for a couple ofdecades now, the trust I have
for me usurps any lack of trustfor anyone else.
I trust James, without question, and so that puts me in a
(32:48):
position to not always beintertwined in every interaction
, but to be able to be anobserver, even in my own life.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
Easier said than done , but I've been practicing, of
course no, but as I thinkthrough that and I think about
folks that don't trust, and ifwe could find ways to help
people go through what you didand help teach them to trust
themselves yes then that opensup the world to be able to trust
others.
Because, if you know, who youare and you know where you're at
(33:13):
.
The discernment becomes greater.
They tell you these things andyou're discernment whether
there's somebody I should trustor somebody I should trust
because you have the belief inyourself.
Oh my gosh, yeah, I think aboutthat.
(33:36):
I mean, I'm just blown my mindbecause I'm thinking about you.
Know, as you're saying, I trustnow and I don't have any issues
anymore with trust, but it'sbecause I do trust myself as
well.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
I really do so, yeah, yeah, you don't need them Right
, but it's because I do trustmyself as well, which is so cool
.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
You don't need them, right?
You don't need the other peoplebecause you know what your
ability to go do, and when youdon't need somebody, it puts you
in a different way that youapproach everything right it
does.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
And that doesn't mean I don't make mistakes.
That doesn't mean I don't judgethings incorrectly, but when I
do Dr B, I own it.
No one doesn't mean I don'tjudge incorrectly, but when I do
dr b, I own it some.
No one did anything to me.
In fact, I've gone to theextreme that, even when it's not
something positive, it stillhappened for me, because either
(34:21):
all things work together for mygood or they don't, oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
Yeah, you know when I think of, like, contributing
factors and things that you knowdeciding factors and
contributing factors and I don'tknow if you've ever listened to
Myron Golden, but he talksabout contributing and you know,
deciding factors and when weplay the victim or we feel like
we're victims, I don't want tosay we play the victim, we feel
(34:46):
like we're victims.
Yeah, a lot of those are thingsthat have happened to us, that
those are the contributingfactors but they're not
determining factors.
Right, they're not whatdetermines where we're going to
go in life.
I mean whether you I mean youhad when you were a baby uh, you
know, you have water on yourbrain and that is a contributing
factor outside anything thatyou could control Absolutely,
(35:09):
but it didn't determine yourlife, because the determinations
comes from the inside of us,not from the outside of us.
And if we're able to determine,we have that trust and faith in
ourselves.
We're able then to determinehow we're going to react to what
(35:33):
that is.
And when you trust what you'reable to do, or trust where you
can go, the contributing doesn'tmatter anymore.
And that's why, for me anywaysand you can tell me this whole
political season that we justwent through are all
contributing factors.
They are not determining mylife or my success or what I
want to go and I go to theseplaces and there's so much fear
(35:56):
as if things have been takenaway that determine what my
outcome in life is going to be.
I mean, if I just throw twowords that you, just you know
what's your thought on?
Speaker 1 (36:17):
Really, it resonates deeply with me because, as you
were talking, I was thinkingabout how I'm sharing my
thoughts and my story andsomeone listening could say oh
so this is one of these guys whothinks he's self-made.
I haven't heard him once sayanything about god or this or
that.
And, to the contrary, right, Iunderstand the determining
factor, but the point is thateverything I need to be,
(36:39):
everything I will ever be, hasalready been placed into me.
So when we do we this isslippery slope, I'm gonna say it
we've been done a greatdisservice being taught to sit
and pray and wait and hope.
It's a terrible strategy becausebecause then it's becomes.
It becomes an excuse not towork, an excuse not to push, an
(37:02):
excuse not to do the things andthe work on yourself for
yourself, work on yourself foryourself.
So this expectation thatthere's a savior that's going to
come do everything and thatsavior has already done the one
thing that he's ever going to do, like for real, that's already
been done.
So everything else, you've gotto do it, and so so that's
(37:24):
that's resonating me.
When you say contributing anddetermining, I'll stop there.
I'll stop there.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
Well, I'm, I'm not gonna let you, because I'm gonna
, I'm gonna read some of thefire points.
So I remember growing up in theblack church.
Well, yeah, back and forth inthe in the black church and
there's always the ladies whosat in the front with the white
hats and the white skirts andthe you know just the moms,
right, they, they were amazingwomen and I can remember I would
ask them, I would, I would askyou know how you doing, miss
(37:52):
Johnson, how you doing?
And she would say going throughit, going through it, waiting
on the Lord, waiting on the Lord.
They go, you know, ask, youknow, miss Jackson, how you
doing, just going through it,waiting on the Lord.
And my thought, you know, as Ithrough it, and I'm thinking
when do you get through it?
Why are you always goingthrough, ms Jackson?
(38:16):
What is it you're waiting for?
Because God's given us all ofthe resources that we need and
he's let us depend on people.
But what you just said is,until we become the person who
can do the thing, until we workon ourselves to become that
person, we can't do the thing.
(38:37):
And if we don't do the thing,we can't have the thing that
we've been doing, because we'restill in this part of not
becoming so much, you said, no,wait a minute, you, we have
everything inside of us.
We have everything outside ofus everything.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
There's a great story , dr b, in the bible, uh, where
a gentleman is sitting at thistemple.
Uh, at a gate, he's sitting atthis pool and he's been there
for years, like like 20 plusyears, 30 years, 34.
Thank you, 34 years.
And so you know the story.
He's waiting for someone to dosomething.
(39:17):
Every time the water moves.
He can't be healed because heis waiting for someone to put
him in the water.
Jesus comes along and just asksthe guy do you want to be okay,
do you want to be healed?
Well, yeah, I do, but I, but,but, but, but, but.
And Jesus says well, get up,man, take up your bed and walk
right, like.
(39:37):
And ultimately, after all thoseyears, his healing was to get
up, take his bed and go away.
I love the take your bed partbecause you know how it is when
you get out of bed Covers areall warm, you're tempted to go
back in it.
He told him take the bed, throwthose nasty covers away and go.
But I don't want to get lost inthe point.
(39:57):
The point I'm making is allthat time, everything he needed
to do was right there with him,but he was waiting on someone
else making excuses for why hislife wasn't what it could be
Watching other people living thelife he could live, but making
excuses, waiting on the Lord.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
Waiting on the Lord.
Waiting on the Lord oh my gosh.
Yes, I think Tyler Perry hasone of those, or Sister Camelot
has the whole comedy thing on itand you can go back to.
There's a really good.
I don't know if you've seen theChosen or watched any of the
Chosen, but I think it's inseason two where they do a
(40:34):
dramatic rendition of Jesusasking that guy.
He's always trying to get intothe pool and he's waiting for
people to take him in and peoplehaven't been taking him in and
then he picks up his bed andpart of that was it was on the
Sabbath that he did the healing.
There's all the things thatcome into that, but it's just.
(40:54):
You know, as you think throughwhat you're saying, we have to
be able to work on us have to,and it's got to be part of your
daily life.
You can't be expecting somebodyto do it for you.
I want to talk about faith,just because we started bringing
it up here and we thought aboutit and your degree was in Aero.
(41:17):
What was it again?
Speaker 1 (41:18):
Aerospace technology.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
Aerospace technology, and so I think of aerodynamics
and all that stuff you weretalking about a little bit about
, um, uh, you know, like youknow, folks that are atheists,
or foods that don't believe ingod, and having faith that
allows you, uh, to know thatthere's a guy.
But you know what, when I thinkabout, like, the law of energy
and the law of energy, theenergy is always there.
(41:40):
It just changes its form, right?
yeah that's what it does yes,you understand that more than I
understand it because I was a pemaybe, so we didn't talk about
energy too much more than Iunderstand it because I was a PE
major, so we didn't talk aboutenergy too much.
As it's coming through, talkabout kinesiology and how
movement works, I guess wedidn't talk about it All
connected though, Dr Beal.
But the law of entropy says thatif you leave something alone,
(42:03):
it will dissolve or whatever.
So, like if you, it just goesaway, right, it dissipates.
If you leave your house aloneand you don't do anything, it
there's um, what do you call it?
Dust and everything else.
It just falls apart.
You let a bird poop on your carand it just destroys everything
that isn't left left to itself,everything left to itself.
(42:27):
If you don't do something withit or interact with it, it will
disintegrate or whatever thatword is that I'm trying to use.
So when you think about youknow, if energy is always there
and if everything falls apart,you go okay, so how could there
be a bang?
And it creates, and then itgets better all the time.
You don't do anything, right,and but you know.
(42:51):
I guess my question is, as I'msaying that, as you were, you
know, thinking about your, youreducation, what, how has faith
now played this part in who youare, what you do when you get up
um in your walk?
Speaker 1 (43:08):
so thank you for asking, I think to.
If I were to answer that in onesentence, it would be that I've
learned that faith is aproactive state, not a reactive
state.
Faith is not something we waiton, faith is something we create
.
That's the short answer, and Ithink about it.
That again, I've seen it somuch in nature.
(43:31):
I've seen what is it Hebrews 11and 2, I've seen it in nature
so many times.
Now, faith is the substance ofthings hoped for.
The evidence of things not seen.
That doesn't make sense.
How can there be substance ofsomething that's hoped for?
What is the substance ofsomething hoped for?
Well, of something that'shopeful.
What is the substance ofsomething hopeful?
(43:52):
Well, that's what we callvision.
That's our imagination.
That's the substance ofsomething hopeful when you close
your eyes, dr B, and see yourvision.
That's the first part of faith.
And what is the evidence ofthings unseen?
What's the evidence thatChristmas is on the way?
What's the evidence thatEaster's in the air?
What's the evidence that it'sthe first day of school?
(44:12):
There is a feeling that'sassociated with certain
occurrences.
There's emotion, there'semoting that occurs when you are
in expectation of a thing.
So, if I'm expecting, if I amexcited if I am filled with joy
and gratitude about the visionthat I see coming to pass.
Sir, that is faith.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
Oh my gosh, I love it .
I'm going to turn you into apreacher here, Brisa.
You get out there and, oh mygosh, we're with people.
Speaker 1 (44:44):
It's just.
It's just.
It's become so practical to meand I wish it could be more
practical.
And again, we've been done adisservice in many ways and I'm
not going to go on disparagingthe black church, but we've done
we've been done a disservicebecause I am a man of faith but
I'm not a man of religion.
Miss me with that.
Speaker 2 (45:02):
Thank you for saying that, because, in the name of
religion, has done so manythings by man deciding what God
wants for you or for everybodyelse, and then coming up with
rules that are part of the Bible, that are part of you.
Know what I'm reading when I'm?
It's like you just make upstuff.
(45:23):
Well, you can't dance, because,well, david danced, and he
danced down the streets with noclothes on.
Speaker 1 (45:32):
Mardi Gras bro.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
Yeah, so, and I love it because, yeah, religion can
get us in trouble.
Speaker 1 (45:41):
For sure.
In all seriousness, absolutelyDon't decide.
It's a bad deal.
Speaker 2 (45:45):
Yeah, people say that the Bible is a book of religion
.
You know it has religion in it,but the Bible is a book about a
kingdom, about his kingdom.
Speaker 1 (45:56):
That's what we're learning about oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (45:59):
Oh, so I want to talk about help a little bit um, and
because one of the things thatyou said the average black man
in our country lives to 72.
That's what our, that's whatour stats say.
You and I both live, believethis.
For me, my dad's 86 right now,still running track weeks.
I'm not, you know, my mom's 80years old.
I have no thought whatsoeverthat I'm going to live to be.
(46:22):
You know that I'm only going tolive to be 72.
But there's things that we haveto do in order to maintain the
vessels that God has given uswhile we're here, even though
they're not going to be there ofours forever.
What are some of the thingsthat you've done and are able to
(46:42):
do to maintain that would behelpful for folks that want to
live?
Speaker 1 (46:50):
I think I want to touch on the one thing that
maybe isn't discussed a lot.
You know, yeah, I go to the gymfour or five times a week.
I try to monitor what I eat.
I enjoy food, but I'm mindful Idon't.
Sugar is not my thing, right, Ican get into those things, but
I I am a absolute believer thatminimizing or eliminating stress
(47:13):
is the fountain of youth.
Fountain of youth.
It's documented that only 5% ofall diseases are genetic.
Right, that all this stuff wesay, well, I got diabetes
because my mom and him haddiabetes.
Not, true, that is not passedon genetically.
Epigenetically, perhaps wedon't have time for that.
(47:34):
But perhaps epigeneticallybecause of the habits and
environment, but it is notgenetic.
But perhaps epigeneticallybecause of the habits and
environment, but it is notgenetic.
But what does egg on disease inour body is stress, because
stress causes you know what I'msaying?
All the bloods to go to ourextremities, fight or flight,
which leaves our gut exposed andcortisol attacks our organs.
(47:56):
Right, and it limits, not onlyaffects the quality of our life,
but it truly causes disease.
And think about disease.
It's two words togetherdis-ease, right, disease is a
lack of ease, and so it isstress that kills more Black men
than guns or drugs or alcohol.
(48:17):
It is the PTSD of being a Blackman in America that kills more
Black men than guns or drugs oralcohol.
It is the ptsd of being a blackman in america that kills more
black men than anything elsecombined.
It ages us, it causes all kindsof issues, it breaks our spirits
, it causes us to look through alens of paranoia and without
joy, and it is stress man.
And and without joy, and it isstress man.
(48:39):
And if we can work through wayswhich again is back to
self-work, if you notice, thatwas the theme coming from me If
we stay, if we focus on thethings we can control, what can
I?
How can I eliminate stress?
How can I look for things to bejoyful about?
I truly believe that that'lllengthen the life.
(49:01):
You know whomever, but we'retalking about black men.
But I truly believe we canchange that average if brothers
can learn how to deal with andeliminate stress.
Speaker 2 (49:08):
Yeah Well, and talk to me a little bit about the
mental health side of stress,like what do we have to do to
mentally have a healthy mindsetevery single day?
And I know it's going to kindof go back to our same theme you
know with, you know with thegratitude and everything else,
but I mean we have to becognizant that our mind plays a
(49:30):
big part of our health of ourbody and everything else Right.
Speaker 1 (49:33):
Yes, man, you are, you're nailing it.
It's the reps, right?
It's the reps, like we.
Let's just say, use church, forexample.
You go to church once a weekand maybe you're lifted for two
hours and then you go back intoyour life.
Or you go to therapy once aweek.
I mean, you name the, the, thesource that you use for help and
(49:54):
encouragement, but you don'ttake a bath once a week, right?
Speaker 2 (49:59):
I love that.
Well, some people might, but.
Speaker 1 (50:06):
You get my point.
You don't brush your teeth oncea week.
You do those things daily.
It's the reps that createsdental health.
It's the reps that creates goodhygiene.
It's the reps that will createmental hygiene and mental
wellness.
You've got to do it every day.
Speaker 2 (50:23):
Well, and to piggyback I mean not piggyback,
just to reference.
What you're saying is you'retalking about the reps.
Well, where you're at now isbased on the reps that you had.
That may not have beenproductive.
Speaker 1 (50:39):
Oh for sure.
You know, man, none of us areliving the outcomes of our of
our decisions today.
We're living the outcomes ofour decisions yesterday.
That's just how that goes right.
That's why the reps are soimportant.
You go to the gym, you're doingcurls.
You don't see muscle growing.
In fact, you're tearing downmuscle, the muscles growing when
(51:01):
you're asleep, wow anyway.
You don't see that happening.
But it's happening, and sothat's why we rep until failure,
we, we work on it until failure, because that's when the growth
is occurring well, I canremember growing up and, like
you know, my grandparents werein the man, the man.
Speaker 2 (51:18):
The man I mean, that was all they talked about is the
man.
The man did this, the man didthat.
That was reps, that they werespeaking into their world and we
live in that every single day.
Right, we have to be carefulwhat we tell our kids.
I have eight of them, you havefour of them.
I mean, how important is thereps of what you say to them on
a daily basis, what they, whatyou allow them to say about
(51:41):
themselves, in this world ofsocial media and everything else
where we're comparing ourselvesto not real life, these lives
that are you know, whateverwe're scrolling through, that is
their best life in most days.
And we this comparison thing ofthen we start telling this story
, thing of then we start tellingthis story to ourselves.
That could be just sodetrimental.
(52:02):
And we can tell that same storythe other direction every
single day, like you obviouslydo.
When you get up every singlemorning and you say, the first
thing you say is I'm thankfulthat I woke up, I'm thankful
that I'm here.
The other person who's snoozingis talking about.
I have to get up.
I'm thankful that.
Speaker 1 (52:21):
I'm here, the other person who's snoozing is like
well, I have to get up, man,you're touching on something so
powerful, and that is even forme.
That option is available, right, those, both choices are always
available.
That is the irony of this thingthat I'm not special.
I'm not somehow anointed tohave a positive attitude.
I'm not chosen to be positive.
(52:43):
I wake up with the sameopportunity to say, oh my gosh,
here's the day, god, I got tomeet with this guy.
This bill is due.
I have the same option.
I have the same life.
I have the same things that arethere, but I get to choose how
I approach them.
Things that are there, but Iget to choose how I approach
(53:06):
them.
I get to choose how I interactwith those things and, as a
result, my outcomes are alwaysworking out for my good period,
so so good.
Speaker 2 (53:14):
We've been talking almost an hour and it seems like
it's been like oh, there's somuch, so much wisdom in the
things that you've been saying.
Is there anything that that youwanted to make sure you shared
today, as you thought aboutcoming on this podcast and and
sharing with you know, myaudience and whoever else's
audiences that out there thatyou just want to let folks know?
(53:36):
I'd love for you to share thatwith us.
Speaker 1 (53:38):
You know I was talking to a young brother when
I say young, probably in hisearly 30s, but he's young and
married, had one little kid, andhe was talking to me about
feeling unappreciated with thethings that he does, and so I
(53:59):
said something to him, and whenI said it to him, he started
crying.
He's not one of those guys thatjust cries out of the blue,
which is nothing wrong with that, I've got nothing.
I cry too.
I cry as well.
Nothing wrong with crying.
But he started almostuncontrollably crying because
what I said touched him in a waythat I had no idea would, even
though the thought of it touchesme deeply.
So I'm going to share that withthe audience.
(54:22):
I asked him did he know what aload-bearing wall was in the
structure?
And he said well, not really.
I said well, in any structure ahouse, apartment, a building
there are many walls, there aremany beams and there are lots of
pillars in that building.
But there are certain pillarsor walls in a structure that if
(54:47):
those are taken out, the entirestructure would fall.
So those walls bear far moreload than it appears.
In other words, it looks likeevery wall in the house is
carrying the same weight, butthe low-bearing wall actually
carries more weight.
So the other walls could belooking at the low-bearing wall
(55:09):
saying what's your problem?
We're carrying the same weight,when in fact the low-bearing
wall by its very nature justcarries more it has to, or the
structure will fall.
So when I said that, the youngbrother just reacted so much, I
(55:31):
thought man, I guess there'ssomething to that.
Right, he's feeling thatpressure and feeling like that
pressure is not being recognized.
And my point to him was don'texpect it to be recognized,
don't need that.
What you need is to fortifyyourself.
What you need is surroundyourself with other low bearing
walls that say you're doinggreat, you're doing okay.
(55:53):
Which is what I ultimately toldhim man, you're doing a great
job, don't quit, don't come down.
Man, you're doing a great job,don't quit, don't come down.
But our expectation to get a paton the back for just being a
man, we have to.
We have to quell that.
We've got to.
We've got to know that we aregood enough.
Back to what you said aboutbeing enough.
We've got to know that, even ifwe don't get that recognition,
(56:15):
even if we don't, if a womandoesn't give us the kudos we
need, we have to know what thatis to be the load-bearing wall,
not expect a cookie for it,right, but then look for ways to
be fortified, build community,find other men that you can be
in conversation with that youcan talk about the load that you
(56:35):
bear, so that you don't have tofeel like an island, and you'll
find out very quickly thatthere are many other
load-bearing walls around youhaving the same experience I
love it because you know, as I'mthinking through your that
analogy, which is so good, isyou don't have to be the
(56:56):
load-bearing wall in every house.
Speaker 2 (56:59):
Right, you can be a little.
You have to be in the one thatyou're in right now, all those
people that you go around.
That's why all those people letthey can be the low bearing
wall in another house, yes, butyou need to go visit the other
house.
You can't stay in your ownhouse and expect everything to
take on everything yourself verygood, absolutely you know
because in the father's house hehas many mansions right and so
(57:21):
many minutes you know, oh mygosh, you do it, I do it, we've
all done it as men, particularlyas black men, and so yeah.
Well, that's why this is thisconversation we're having is so
important, because he can listento this and go wait a minute.
This guy took this is how hetook on his load-bearing wall
(57:43):
and he came out of it and wasable to visit another wall and
then the bear, because the loaddidn't seem like it was so, so
heavy.
He's able to build more andable to move more, but you don't
know how to do that if you'restuck in the middle of the house
, right?
no you can't see the outside,you can't see the windows, you
can't.
Speaker 1 (58:00):
You can't move, you're just stuck you just stop,
man, you just stopped well,james, thank you for so much for
for taking your time today.
Speaker 2 (58:09):
I know you're busy man.
You got things got you goingand ripping and roaring, like
all of us do, but to take thetime to, to share with, uh, the
folks that are listening to ithas has been an honor, it has
been a treat, it has been for me, just a wonderful, incredible
conversation that I willcontinue to, you know, to talk
(58:30):
about and to tell people andutilize your analogies.
You've had such good analogiestoday that I'm going to, you
know, I took, you know, two orthree pages of notes and just
thank you again for being here.
Speaker 1 (58:43):
Thank you, dr B.
Again, I'm humbled to justhavea conversation with a
like-minded man Like we justright clicked, because we
definitely are resonating on thesame frequency, if you will,
and that's what makes it work,man, and I need that in my life
on a regular basis.
Speaker 2 (59:03):
Absolutely, and so those of you who are watching,
if the episode meant somethingto you and it was something, go
ahead and watch it again.
It's recorded for that purpose,if there's somebody that you
know that could benefit from thethings that we talked about
today even if they don't, theydecide not to watch it.
(59:23):
All you can do is share withthem and let them know that it's
available.
Hit the subscribe button,because we have episodes coming
out all the time that are thosethat can help you not have to be
that low barrier wall in themiddle of the room trying to
figure it out all on your own.
Hey, folks, I don't forget thatyour God's greatest gift is not
you, if you allow him to, andwe'll talk to you on the next
one.
You guys have an amazing,awesome, incredible day and
we'll see you on the next one.
I emerged from that coma and, yeah, there were some
absolute issues.
That I experienced is that I am95% blind in my left eye, and
so for most people that wouldlook at me and say, oh, poor guy
with the cock eye don't knowthat, it is a testimony that I
was dead and I'm alive.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
All right, welcome to another edition of the Journey
to Freedom podcast.
I'm Dr Bion, your host, and, asalways, I get excited because
we get to talk to people who aremaking a difference, making
things happen.
We get to talk to people whoare making a difference, making
things happen.
I was just uh, you know, I wasjust doing a um, uh interview
for, you know, these peoplethey're like who's who in
america or something like that,and, uh, I thought this is a
(00:53):
cool, you know, and she spentlike 45 minutes with me and
asking all these questions.
But she was asking me what isit that you want to leave as a
legacy, you know?
And I said well, you know, 120years.
That's all we got, because noneof us will be alive, we'll all
be gone, and all all that we'veleft behind is our little
footprint of you know, themillion years that the earth has
(01:15):
been here, you know, in thislittle 100 year front so what is
?
it.
I said well, I want to helppeople um live their purpose,
why they're here, and enjoy itand be fulfilled and be
successful.
And so, as I was talking toJames before the show today, I
just said what are you mostexcited about?
And he said I'm excited thatI'm here, I'm excited that I get
(01:36):
to wake up every single day andstart it over, I'm excited that
when I go to bed, that I saythe same thing Thank you for an
amazing day, thank you that Iwas able to just the
appreciation and the gratitude.
And if we could live you know,if you think about this if we
could live a life of gratitude,if we could live a life of
service, if we could live a lifewhere we care more about our
(01:58):
fellow man than we do aboutourselves, our world would
change in a day, in 24 hours.
I don't believe we would havewars that are still going on 24
hours, we would have kindness,and yet we spend our days.
I mean, somebody I had a gueston yesterday told me that 74% of
people that are in theworkforce right now do not like
(02:22):
their jobs, and I'm like, wow,how do you go through life?
40 years, 50 years, waiting forretirement, waiting for Fridays
, waiting for weekends,anesthetizing yourself with
alcohol and marijuana andwhatever else on weekends so you
don't have to cope with whatlife has.
(02:42):
And then you get up every dayand say I am so happy that I got
to open my eyes this morning.
And so when we think aboutJourney to Freedom, when we
think about where our, you know,I took 18 Black men to Alabama
a couple, three weeks ago and wegot to go through a civil
rights tour.
We got to see where some of thefolks that we talk about all
(03:04):
the time Shuttleworth and MLK Jrand all these guys that were, I
guess, predecessors of the lifethat we get right now and we
got to stand on the corners andwe got to see and be in Alabama
and just go.
Wow, some of this feels likeI'm still back in 1970.
Some of the ways that it is.
(03:25):
But then to go, you know what Iget to do today?
I got to get up and even when Iwas there in a hotel room, I
got to get up and take a shower.
I didn't.
When I walked outside, whetherthey thought it or not, they
didn't tell me I shouldn't bethere.
They didn't tell me that youknow, a white kid could go get
my car and bring it to me fromthe valet.
(03:46):
Right, that didn't happen.
Right what they're doing right.
Oh my God, what an incredibletime it is, and so I've asked
James to tell a story.
I do like to tell everybodyelse.
Start wherever you want in thehistory, because this is your
story, and so I can't wait tohear them.
We're going to chop it up.
(04:07):
After that.
We're going to have some fun,incredible time while we're here
.
So, james, the floor is you,it's yours.
This is James W, officer III.
And I even forgot where youlived in Texas or something
right.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Indianapolis, indianapolis, indianapolis.
See how close.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
I was.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
You were super close, dr b all right well, go ahead
and tell us your story.
So I uh, first of all, abs,thank you for, uh, letting me be
a part of this conversation.
I know that it has been ongoingand will continue, and I'm just
so grateful to be a part of it.
And, like, literally, you askedme to tell my story and I
(04:47):
thought, oh, wow, right, whereyou know, where do you start and
how do you?
What do I say that may or maynot have the most impact, and I
I determined in a couple secondsthat it wasn't my business to
determine what wouldn't, whatwill and what won't have impact,
but rather just to share.
And so, very quickly, I thoughtabout my life in about five
chapters.
Ok, I'm going to share a littlebit from each of those chapters
(05:10):
and that'll be a pretty goodsummary.
Chapter one is sick.
I was a very sickly baby.
In fact, I was diagnosed withhydrocephalus, that's water on
the brain, and as a result ofthat yes, diagnosed with
hydrocephalus, that's water onthe brain, and as a result of
that, yes, and as a result ofthat, I entered a three month
(05:33):
long coma.
The prognosis was not very goodat all, that my parents were
told that if I did emerge fromthis coma, I would be basically,
you know, a vegetable, was theycalled it in the seventies.
Right, I would.
I would not be able to takecare of myself or any of those
things.
I emerged from that coma and,yeah, there were some absolute
issues that I experienced, butwhat remains from that,
(05:54):
basically, is that I am 95%blind in my left eye and that's
a lazy eye.
And so for most people thatwould look at me and say, oh,
poor guy with the cock eye,don't know that, it is a
testimony that I was dead andI'm alive, that I was told I
would be a vegetable but I wasan athlete and a bit of a
scholar right, at least average.
(06:14):
And so all the things, all theprognosis were wrong and what I
have as a testimony, as a medalif you will, is a lazy eye that
I can't see out of.
That's chapter one.
Chapter two is abused.
There are 10 ACEs AdverseChildhood Experiences.
I won't line them out, I won'tname them, but I will tell you
(06:37):
that nine of them are attributedto my life and, in fairness, to
my sister's life as well.
And so we were in a, and itwasn't a biological parent but
rather a step parent.
Very very abusive in every waythat you can imagine, from the
time I was 10 years old untilthe time I was too big to be
picked on, right yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Yeah, and you had enough.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
And that didn't happen, yeah.
So I left for college butendured and watched my mom
endure those things, and theseare things I wouldn't have
talked about years ago yeah, dueto the shame of it, but
realizing that, why not?
I didn't do it, it wasn't myfault.
So the need to talk about it isthen to swallow someone else's
book.
I won't, I'll refrain, but it'sto swallow somebody else's
(07:22):
stuff and so what I won't do isswallow someone else's stuff to
protect whatever, when thatwould only impact me in a
negative way.
So that was chapter two, whichleads to chapter three, which
was lost.
I was a college student.
I was fortunate enough to be atschool to play football, but I
was so confused I didn't have aclue of what I was going to.
(07:45):
I was talking to a dear friendyesterday that I went to college
without a clue of what I wantedto do, what I wanted to major
in.
Of course I thought I was goingto the NFL.
That didn't happen.
Everybody right?
Yeah, that didn't happen.
I didn't have a clue.
I literally picked my major, drB, because it sounded difficult
, because I didn't want to beseen as a dumb jock.
I majored in aerospacetechnology, not because I was
(08:09):
interested in it, but because Ithought, man, if I'm going to be
in that I don't want to beconsidered a dumb jock In my
freshman year.
That abusive person I talkedabout in my life shot my mother.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Shot her.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Fortunately she wasn't killed, but she was
injured badly.
Now to see her today in her 70s.
The only way you know she wasshot is she's missing the index
finger on her right hand.
But the scars on her face arecompletely healed.
But obviously there are scarsthere.
That last a lifetime.
And so that just catapulted meinto you know, heavy drinking.
(08:45):
And I mean just completely lostfootball, went to he double
hockey sticks and I barely madeit out of college.
That's chapter three.
Chapter four is found, um, as avery so so I.
I graduated may, may 3rd 1992as an undergrad, may 3rd 1992 as
(09:05):
an undergrad.
I was married on May 23rd.
I'll do that math for you.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Two weeks after I got a degree, I was married.
I got married before I finishedmy degree.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Yeah, I was married.
And just to push ahead, I'mstill married to that girl today
, almost 33 years later.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Congratulations to push ahead.
I'm still married to that girltoday almost 33 years later,
congratulations.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
But in that time again, I didn't know where I
wanted to do, where I wanted tobe, but it was something about
her, I felt.
I felt that I felt that I foundmy family, and so in that I was
encouraged.
Now we, we had kids veryquickly.
By the time I was 26, we hadthree.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Wow, yeah by the time I was 26,.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
We had three Wow yeah , by the time I was 30, we had
our fourth and final child, whoare all adult now and living
their lives.
So very proud of them, and evensix grandchildren.
So very, very blessed in somany ways.
But it was chapter four that Iwas found.
I found my faith, I found mywife, I found some footing, I
(10:03):
found a village, even though Ihad connected in college.
I pledged a fraternity.
I did all those things.
I had friends, I had people who, I believe, cared for me and
saw was.
It was essentially because thosefirst, first three chapters
(10:27):
Right and so so, after beingfound, I would say chapter five
is redeemed and that that youknow that I won't get into the
details because that's a longchapter there, probably the last
20 years or so.
I would call that chapterredeemed, and not because of my
career, not because of the jobsI've had the last decade.
(10:49):
I've been on my own as anentrepreneur, but even prior to
that I had great jobs,high-level positions, all of
those things.
But that's not why I'm sayingredeemed.
I'm saying redeemed in chapterfive because I have a very clear
identity.
I know exactly who I am, I knowexactly why I am here and I also
know that I am designedanatomically to give.
(11:12):
I am a giver and there's no wayI can get around it
anatomically in a smart wayanyway.
But the point I'm making isthat I understand and have
embrace the notion that we'vebeen designed to give and in
that, interestingly andmiraculously, is how we receive
(11:33):
the most, that my deepest desireis philanthropy, because I
understand that there's no waythat I can outgive the creator.
Now, whether you're a person offaith or not, you don't have to
believe in God, to believe thatprinciple, because God's
principles are infallible,sovereign and they don't need
(11:53):
you to believe them.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
They work, they work, no matter yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
Don't need you to believe them.
It is what it is.
And so, living this redeemedspace, it is just not about me.
It is so much bigger than meand I'm convinced, dr B, that I
will not die because I'm ill.
I will not die of some terribleaccident.
I'm convinced of this, I havemanifested this and I know my
(12:20):
future in this way.
I won't die because of somesickness, some accident.
Future in this way.
I won't die because of somesickness, some accident,
something horrendous.
I will die because I'm done.
When I go, it's because thecreator is finished with me.
You've done your work.
Son, come on.
Whether that's 70 or 80 or 60,whatever that is, it's going to
be peaceful, it's going to bequiet and it's going to be
(12:40):
beautiful, because my work willbe done and the world will be
better, because I was here.
Wow, that is so cool, that'll bechapter six lifted, all right,
I love it, let's get six, sevenand eight.
Thank you for letting me dothat man.
I've never done that in life,so thank you for putting me on
the spot to tell my story.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Well, one of the things on chapter five, and then
I'll go back to some of theother ones.
But chapter five, it made methink.
When you said I'm done, I wasthinking of like David the king
Right.
I was thinking that he, hefaced Goliath knowing that God
had already ordained him to bethe king the king right, so he
(13:30):
knew when he stood up there.
There was no way that Goliathcould kill me because I'm not
done and I think about your liferight there.
You got to have like a lease onlife.
That is so amazing because youknow you're not done.
So it affects all the decisionsyou make.
It affects because you're notworried about oh, this could be
over.
You're like no, I love it.
All right, chapter six.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Thank you, man.
I love, I love that analogy.
It's not even an analogy, Imean, that's an allegory right
Based on what we're living, andI find so much inspiration in
understanding the connectivityof time and I think that that.
So chapter six and this is thelast chapter, cause I'm in it
(14:10):
right now beyond redeemed isunderstanding.
I'm in a space of my life whereI just get it.
I have seen enough things cyclethat I understand that there is
truly nothing new under the sun, literally nothing.
And it makes me now become I'ma bit of a history buff, because
now, when the most phenomenalthing happens, I go look for
(14:32):
where it's happened before, andI've not failed yet in finding
some semblance of it.
I'll give you a real timeexample right now.
Yesterday, a friend and I weretalking about the Reconstruction
period in America as it relatedto the freed slaves and what
happened in that time.
And in that 15-year period orso, land was acquired, positions
(14:56):
were gained, all kinds ofamazing things were happening to
those newly freed slaves.
And then there was a shift inthe country where it was like,
yeah, enough of that.
And then comes along Plessyversus Ferguson and Jim Crow,
and then all those things, andso nearly a hundred years goes
by, and then around 1910, excuseme, 2010, there was this real
(15:18):
resurgence of diversity in theworkplace and a real
conversation beyond affirmativeaction.
It was hey, here's value anddiversity, here's value and
inclusion.
And now there are positionscreated and affinity groups
created, and then for so for thelast 15 years it's been amazing
, it's been reconstruction, asecond reconstruction for
(15:41):
minorities, and, of course,other groups have been added to
that.
I don't mean to leave anyone out, but I'm just talking to the
black man that now, here in 2025, we've come to the end of a
second reconstruction.
Now somebody would say, james,that's a stretch, bro, but I
don't know.
I don't know.
I'll say one more thing, dr B,that if we look at what people
(16:02):
did at the end of the firstreconstruction, that if we look
at what people did at the end ofthe first reconstruction, that
was when we had Black WallStreet and other communities
like it.
That's when the HBCUs werebuilt.
That's when so much emerged,when Black people were told no,
are you separate?
All these wonderful thingshappened.
Here we have a chance to lookat history and say, huh, what
(16:24):
did they do at the end ofReconstruction, when it looked
like all heck was breaking loose.
Oh, what can we do at the endof the second Reconstruction
when it looks like all heck isbreaking loose?
Okay.
I'll stop there man, because ohno.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
And I love where the conversation's going because
it's so true.
It's like wait a minute.
And it all is based on thisbelief that there's lack, right,
because we've sort of gotteninto the God of abundance.
But in our world, in oursystems that are created are all
created based on a finiteresource that's available and
(16:54):
everybody has to fight for thesefinite resources.
And if I give you some of myresources, that means I don't
have them anymore and notrealizing there's enough
resources for both of us to doso much more, but we'll spend
our time talking and puttingtogether and coming up with new
(17:15):
systems to make sure that youdon't get what I have or you
don't take it away from me.
It's so mind-boggling.
I think, the biggest differencein.
You know, as we're just havingthis conversation, I'll go back
a little bit, but the biggestdifference in the first
reconstruction and thereconstruction now is our
(17:36):
intelligence, or our collectiveintelligence, or our ability to
acquire knowledge, whereas whenthe slaves were coming out of
slavery, many of them hadn'tacquired an education, even an
understanding of where they wereat in the world or what their
opportunities were now, andthat's why they had to start
developing Black Wall Street.
(17:57):
And you know, some of them knewwhat they were doing and we
started.
You know, as we were segregated, we said wait a minute, we know
what to do and we started doingit and now we started attaining
Right.
So, after the reader, we startedtaking a wait a minute.
We need to integrate now, andthen, when we integrate, we're
going to make sure that we takeyou to our schools and we don't
teach you.
You're already teachingyourself and you guys are being
(18:23):
successful, because you'realready teaching yourself and
you guys are being successful.
So, no, let's put you in ourschools and then we'll make sure
you sit in the back room.
We don't teach you, right.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
I shouldn't be laughing at that.
It's the way you said it.
It's the way you laid it out,man.
That's exactly the scenario,man.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Oh, and then what we're going to do is your
families are to, your familiesare so strong, your families are
doing so well, your communityis doing so well, let's take the
family away, you know.
And then so we're going to take, we're going to take dads out
of the house, then we'll dobathroom cars.
There's just so many things andI don't know, and as we
progress and I hear what's goingon, we can't have a belief of
(19:07):
fear.
We can't have this fear thatgoes around, because there is so
much opportunity, there is somany things, that we have
conversations like this.
You know, on Sunday nights I doone that's called why Love Waits
, and you know we're working onthe family unit and saying why
is it that 50 percent of blackwomen that are over the age of
(19:28):
40 have never been married?
What?
What is happening with that?
50 percent of black women overthe age of 40 have never been
married and of that 50 percent,75 percent of them have at least
one child.
So that kind of tells you whatthe family unit is.
So we have to have theseconversations where we're
(19:50):
talking about how do we makesure that this and what has
happened in the past doesn'trepeat itself, because we are in
positions that we can make sureit doesn't happen.
Yes, whoever the president is,he doesn't have enough power.
No, I mean, he can fire somefederal folks, but he fires one,
(20:11):
he has to fire them all.
He can say that the federalgovernment isn't going to do DEI
, which I don't even think heunderstands what it is.
In fact, he knows exactly whatit is, but he doesn't want it to
be part of him.
But that doesn't mean, you know, I was talking to the president
of our NAACP here the other day.
We do a bunch of stuff togetherand he says I still think
(20:34):
businesses want to support blackbusinesses.
And I'm like, of course they do.
So what's the spirit of fear?
That as long as we cometogether, we're doing stuff.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
So I'll get off my portion of the soapbox, you said
a lot of great things, andthat's that's, uh, what I mean
when I say understanding, right,I I don't leap to conclusions
anymore, I leap to understandand and I do that with great
intention.
I just I don't react to anything, and that's just due to the
(21:10):
chapter that I am in my life andyou know, I have this notion.
I have a visual related toabundance versus scarcity.
You touched on that, and thevisual that I have, dr B, is
that there is a sea of abundance, literal ocean of abundance
right, that all of us haveaccess to on any given day, and
we have the option.
(21:31):
No one's dictating to us, noone's telling us what to use.
We have the option to take athimble to the sea of abundance
or to back a dump truck up tothe sea of abundance.
Nobody tells us which one totake, but how we decide to view
and approach the sea ofabundance in impacts how we live
and what we, the way we see theworld.
(21:52):
I see that there to your pointthat there is so much that I
can't even fathom a world wherethere is scarcity.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
There isn't, and when one technology or one resource
is depleted, we're creativeenough and ingenuitive enough.
I don't know what that rightword is.
And heating that we had in theworld had to come from well,
(22:24):
blubber.
Well, okay, there's no morewells, so let's go dig and we'll
get diamonds for us, right?
And then the dinosaur will rundown.
We'll go, We'll create anothertechnology.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Yeah, it is amazing.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
The sun's not going nowhere.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
No.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
So you know I miss the sun, you know the wind's not
going nowhere, right?
So, yeah, it just.
It boggles my mind sometimes tothink that, um, we have to deal
with lack, and that you haveconversations, and one of the
things that you just said thatjust piqued my thought is you're
in a spot where you're able tolisten now so that you can be
(23:00):
understood, so that that you canunderstand.
So many people listen torespond.
I've already got my responsebefore I even heard what you
said, and they're trying tocreate their world, which you
know.
It's okay to create your world,but what our world would be like
if we were able to listen firstwith both of our ears instead
(23:21):
of our mouth, before we everrespond?
And so, oh my gosh, one of thequestions I want to ask you,
though, because you brought itup, was identity, and you said
now you understand your identityand who you are, and I kind of
feel like the same way, but Iwant to hear that journey of
identity, because I can'timagine that identity when you
(23:44):
were being abused is the sameidentity that you have now, or
that identity you have when youwere lost is the same identity
when you were found.
And so what was thatprogression that you were able
to figure out what this identitylooks like?
Speaker 1 (24:01):
Wow, that is a great question, so I'll tell it.
I'll tell this backward reallyquickly, because now I can see
so clearly how these thingshappen.
There's a gentleman by the nameof Dr Mark Gullion.
He is a former physicsprofessor at Harvard.
(24:24):
This gentleman his work hasbeen in physics and quantum
physics Also also a Emmy winningjournalist.
Ok, he was an atheist, who?
Speaker 2 (24:42):
who moved?
Speaker 1 (24:43):
into a space of faith in God based on science, and
because he learned throughscience that faith is as
scientific as it is spiritual,that particles come together as
you see them, not becausethey're already there.
In other words, he provedthrough science that believing
is seeing.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
Not seeing is believing.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
And so with that, I understand that I was believing.
Based on all the things aroundme, I was being defined by
everything that I couldn't seebeyond what I believed about me.
So I believed I was a sicklykid who's now an abused
(25:30):
adolescent and preteen, andthat's what I believe.
So everything I saw Dr B,confirmed that it's a true
saying that you go where you'relooking.
It's called target fixation.
If you're driving along and youare looking at potholes, you're
going to hit every darn pothole.
You don't want to hit thepothole.
(25:51):
Look away from the pothole,right, you go where you're
looking.
So I know I'm telling the story,but I'm telling it backwards to
say I know now why I didn'thave a sense of identity,
because the things that I wasseeing was based on what I
believed about me.
So, fast forward, I find my wayto college and I land in an
(26:13):
African-American studies 101.
And that is the beginning ofthe light.
That's the light switch that Ilearned about me, a perspective
that I'd never, ever been taught.
I knew about slavery.
I knew I was a slave.
I knew after a slave, dr King,was born.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Yeah, there we go.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Yes, that's what I knew about me that I was
prohibited from reading andwriting and all those things,
terrible things.
And then Dr King came and had adream, and now we're all free,
we get to sit here in thisclassroom together.
That was my.
So then what did I see?
What I believed, when I startedto read about not just the
(27:03):
contributions of Black peoplebut the resilience.
All of a sudden, I went fromashamed of slavery oh my gosh,
these people survived that, mypeople survived that.
It was a complete shift, man,in my mindset.
So it went from there and I'llstop there, because you can kind
of follow that trajectory.
But it started with the out ofcontrol orbit of a lack of
(27:29):
identity, started with me beinggiven a specific orientation
from an origin that was otherthan what had been shown to me.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
And that I mean that confirms me taking that trip.
And I don't know if you've everbeen to the Equal Justice
Museum in Montgomery, yet Idon't know if you've ever been
to the Equal Justice Museum inMontgomery.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
Yet I have not when I take my next trip.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
You need to come with me on it.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
I will Lock it in Brian.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Stevenson put together this unbelievable
museum that starts out with theAfrican American slave trade and
then goes into integration andmass incarceration.
And, oh my gosh, integrationand mass incarceration.
Oh, my gosh All the things, allthe things.
But I love it because when wethink about our identities and
we think of what shapes who weare and the people that we hang
(28:20):
around and being able to move up, because sometimes I think we
get stuck in this belief that wecan't move forward or that
we're not enough- oh, man, youknow and I heard a definition
the other day.
I'd love for you to respond toit.
The definition was of enough,and enough is not an amount.
Enough is a relationship withwhere you're at right now and I
(28:44):
had to start thinking throughthat.
I'm like enough is not anamount.
I don't because we will neverhit the amount, because we
always want more.
But if we can create whateverthe relationship we is now
doesn't mean we don't want tostrive for more.
But it's enough for right now.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
Maybe you just respond as you process that a
little bit, just really quickly,because we already talked about
it, dr b.
Uh, which came to me when yousaid that, and I'll say it
quickly, I don't have to take upthe air but gratitude, that's.
That's the relationship, bro.
Like that's what I thought whenI, when you said a relationship
(29:20):
of what you have, I thatrelationship, if it's gratitude,
it's enough.
So I love that that was awesome.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
It's enough.
I love that.
That was awesome.
As I've been pondering it thelast, I don't know two or three
weeks at least.
Every day, when I get up, I'mgoing.
I'm enough, this is enough.
Now where can I go?
Because I'm not living in thatblack, which is so cool.
I want to talk about trust alittle bit, because your history
leads to being in that black,which is so cool.
(29:50):
Yes, so let's talk about trusta little bit, because your, your
history leads to not trusting,and it's not.
You know, sometimes we think oftrust as black men.
If I don't trust, you knowwhite folks, or I don't trust
you know the, the systems in thesociety, and and it almost
hinders us and stops us.
But in your story you have thislong abuse and I'm assuming it
(30:14):
wasn't from a white man, I'massuming from somebody that just
looks just like us.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
That, for whatever reason, decided that he had to
take out his pain on hischildren, out his pain on his
children.
So you come out of that and yougo to college and you're around
folks and how do you trust thatthe folks now that are
(30:40):
different than where you're atare going to be good to you?
What kind of examples of stuffdid you have that allowed you to
trust?
Speaker 1 (30:52):
of examples of stuff did you have that allowed you to
trust is so, so important, yeah, so one of the things that was
consistent through all of that Imean from the time I was, I
think eight is when I startedwas team sports.
Okay, uh, so I had team sportsfrom eight years old into
college.
So I always had teammates that,while I wasn't an open book at
all, I felt, I felt safe, Itrusted them as much as I could
(31:15):
trust them in the space that wewere in, and so that kind of
lasted into into college as well.
And then, beyond sports, Iconnected with a group of men in
a fraternity.
And then, beyond sports, Iconnected with a group of men in
a fraternity.
So in my second year in schoolI became part of a fraternal
organization and so againestablishing that bond and that
(31:38):
brotherhood, because it was areal need for me that I didn't
identify it as such.
I just thought these guys arecool, I want to be a part of it.
But there was absolutelysomething missing for me and I
didn't trust.
I did so poorly early on inschool because I didn't speak
out in class, I didn't trustthat I would be heard and
(32:00):
received, I didn't go talk toprofessors.
Are you kidding me?
There's no way.
I was going to talk to thembecause I didn't trust that they
had my back.
And again, it wasn't untilfound chapter four, I think, or
that I realized that all theseyears, because of a variety of
circumstances, dr B, it was methat I didn't trust.
So the journey was to trust me,and so, now that I've been on
(32:26):
that path for a couple ofdecades now, the trust I have
for me usurps any lack of trustfor anyone else.
I trust James, without question, and so that puts me in a
(32:48):
position to not always beintertwined in every interaction
, but to be able to be anobserver, even in my own life.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
Easier said than done , but I've been practicing, of
course no, but as I thinkthrough that and I think about
folks that don't trust, and ifwe could find ways to help
people go through what you didand help teach them to trust
themselves yes then that opensup the world to be able to trust
others.
Because, if you know, who youare and you know where you're at
(33:13):
.
The discernment becomes greater.
They tell you these things andyou're discernment whether
there's somebody I should trustor somebody I should trust
because you have the belief inyourself.
Oh my gosh, yeah, I think aboutthat.
(33:36):
I mean, I'm just blown my mindbecause I'm thinking about you.
Know, as you're saying, I trustnow and I don't have any issues
anymore with trust, but it'sbecause I do trust myself as
well.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
I really do so, yeah, yeah, you don't need them Right
, but it's because I do trustmyself as well, which is so cool
.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
You don't need them, right?
You don't need the other peoplebecause you know what your
ability to go do, and when youdon't need somebody, it puts you
in a different way that youapproach everything right it
does.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
And that doesn't mean I don't make mistakes.
That doesn't mean I don't judgethings incorrectly, but when I
do Dr B, I own it.
No one doesn't mean I don'tjudge incorrectly, but when I do
dr b, I own it some.
No one did anything to me.
In fact, I've gone to theextreme that, even when it's not
something positive, it stillhappened for me, because either
(34:21):
all things work together for mygood or they don't, oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
Yeah, you know when I think of, like, contributing
factors and things that you knowdeciding factors and
contributing factors and I don'tknow if you've ever listened to
Myron Golden, but he talksabout contributing and you know,
deciding factors and when weplay the victim or we feel like
we're victims, I don't want tosay we play the victim, we feel
(34:46):
like we're victims.
Yeah, a lot of those are thingsthat have happened to us, that
those are the contributingfactors but they're not
determining factors.
Right, they're not whatdetermines where we're going to
go in life.
I mean whether you I mean youhad when you were a baby uh, you
know, you have water on yourbrain and that is a contributing
factor outside anything thatyou could control Absolutely,
(35:09):
but it didn't determine yourlife, because the determinations
comes from the inside of us,not from the outside of us.
And if we're able to determine,we have that trust and faith in
ourselves.
We're able then to determinehow we're going to react to what
(35:33):
that is.
And when you trust what you'reable to do, or trust where you
can go, the contributing doesn'tmatter anymore.
And that's why, for me anywaysand you can tell me this whole
political season that we justwent through are all
contributing factors.
They are not determining mylife or my success or what I
want to go and I go to theseplaces and there's so much fear
(35:56):
as if things have been takenaway that determine what my
outcome in life is going to be.
I mean, if I just throw twowords that you, just you know
what's your thought on?
Speaker 1 (36:17):
Really, it resonates deeply with me because, as you
were talking, I was thinkingabout how I'm sharing my
thoughts and my story andsomeone listening could say oh
so this is one of these guys whothinks he's self-made.
I haven't heard him once sayanything about god or this or
that.
And, to the contrary, right, Iunderstand the determining
factor, but the point is thateverything I need to be,
(36:39):
everything I will ever be, hasalready been placed into me.
So when we do we this isslippery slope, I'm gonna say it
we've been done a greatdisservice being taught to sit
and pray and wait and hope.
It's a terrible strategy becausebecause then it's becomes.
It becomes an excuse not towork, an excuse not to push, an
(37:02):
excuse not to do the things andthe work on yourself for
yourself, work on yourself foryourself.
So this expectation thatthere's a savior that's going to
come do everything and thatsavior has already done the one
thing that he's ever going to do, like for real, that's already
been done.
So everything else, you've gotto do it, and so so that's
(37:24):
that's resonating me.
When you say contributing anddetermining, I'll stop there.
I'll stop there.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
Well, I'm, I'm not gonna let you, because I'm gonna
, I'm gonna read some of thefire points.
So I remember growing up in theblack church.
Well, yeah, back and forth inthe in the black church and
there's always the ladies whosat in the front with the white
hats and the white skirts andthe you know just the moms,
right, they, they were amazingwomen and I can remember I would
ask them, I would, I would askyou know how you doing, miss
(37:52):
Johnson, how you doing?
And she would say going throughit, going through it, waiting
on the Lord, waiting on the Lord.
They go, you know, ask, youknow, miss Jackson, how you
doing, just going through it,waiting on the Lord.
And my thought, you know, as Ithrough it, and I'm thinking
when do you get through it?
Why are you always goingthrough, ms Jackson?
(38:16):
What is it you're waiting for?
Because God's given us all ofthe resources that we need and
he's let us depend on people.
But what you just said is,until we become the person who
can do the thing, until we workon ourselves to become that
person, we can't do the thing.
(38:37):
And if we don't do the thing,we can't have the thing that
we've been doing, because we'restill in this part of not
becoming so much, you said, no,wait a minute, you, we have
everything inside of us.
We have everything outside ofus everything.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
There's a great story , dr b, in the bible, uh, where
a gentleman is sitting at thistemple.
Uh, at a gate, he's sitting atthis pool and he's been there
for years, like like 20 plusyears, 30 years, 34.
Thank you, 34 years.
And so you know the story.
He's waiting for someone to dosomething.
(39:17):
Every time the water moves.
He can't be healed because heis waiting for someone to put
him in the water.
Jesus comes along and just asksthe guy do you want to be okay,
do you want to be healed?
Well, yeah, I do, but I, but,but, but, but, but.
And Jesus says well, get up,man, take up your bed and walk
right, like.
(39:37):
And ultimately, after all thoseyears, his healing was to get
up, take his bed and go away.
I love the take your bed partbecause you know how it is when
you get out of bed Covers areall warm, you're tempted to go
back in it.
He told him take the bed, throwthose nasty covers away and go.
But I don't want to get lost inthe point.
(39:57):
The point I'm making is allthat time, everything he needed
to do was right there with him,but he was waiting on someone
else making excuses for why hislife wasn't what it could be
Watching other people living thelife he could live, but making
excuses, waiting on the Lord.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
Waiting on the Lord.
Waiting on the Lord oh my gosh.
Yes, I think Tyler Perry hasone of those, or Sister Camelot
has the whole comedy thing on itand you can go back to.
There's a really good.
I don't know if you've seen theChosen or watched any of the
Chosen, but I think it's inseason two where they do a
(40:34):
dramatic rendition of Jesusasking that guy.
He's always trying to get intothe pool and he's waiting for
people to take him in and peoplehaven't been taking him in and
then he picks up his bed andpart of that was it was on the
Sabbath that he did the healing.
There's all the things thatcome into that, but it's just.
(40:54):
You know, as you think throughwhat you're saying, we have to
be able to work on us have to,and it's got to be part of your
daily life.
You can't be expecting somebodyto do it for you.
I want to talk about faith,just because we started bringing
it up here and we thought aboutit and your degree was in Aero.
(41:17):
What was it again?
Speaker 1 (41:18):
Aerospace technology.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
Aerospace technology, and so I think of aerodynamics
and all that stuff you weretalking about a little bit about
, um, uh, you know, like youknow, folks that are atheists,
or foods that don't believe ingod, and having faith that
allows you, uh, to know thatthere's a guy.
But you know what, when I thinkabout, like, the law of energy
and the law of energy, theenergy is always there.
(41:40):
It just changes its form, right?
yeah that's what it does yes,you understand that more than I
understand it because I was a pemaybe, so we didn't talk about
energy too much more than Iunderstand it because I was a PE
major, so we didn't talk aboutenergy too much.
As it's coming through, talkabout kinesiology and how
movement works, I guess wedidn't talk about it All
connected though, Dr Beal.
But the law of entropy says thatif you leave something alone,
(42:03):
it will dissolve or whatever.
So, like if you, it just goesaway, right, it dissipates.
If you leave your house aloneand you don't do anything, it
there's um, what do you call it?
Dust and everything else.
It just falls apart.
You let a bird poop on your carand it just destroys everything
that isn't left left to itself,everything left to itself.
(42:27):
If you don't do something withit or interact with it, it will
disintegrate or whatever thatword is that I'm trying to use.
So when you think about youknow, if energy is always there
and if everything falls apart,you go okay, so how could there
be a bang?
And it creates, and then itgets better all the time.
You don't do anything, right,and but you know.
(42:51):
I guess my question is, as I'msaying that, as you were, you
know, thinking about your, youreducation, what, how has faith
now played this part in who youare, what you do when you get up
um in your walk?
Speaker 1 (43:08):
so thank you for asking, I think to.
If I were to answer that in onesentence, it would be that I've
learned that faith is aproactive state, not a reactive
state.
Faith is not something we waiton, faith is something we create
.
That's the short answer, and Ithink about it.
That again, I've seen it somuch in nature.
(43:31):
I've seen what is it Hebrews 11and 2, I've seen it in nature
so many times.
Now, faith is the substance ofthings hoped for.
The evidence of things not seen.
That doesn't make sense.
How can there be substance ofsomething that's hoped for?
What is the substance ofsomething hoped for?
Well, of something that'shopeful.
What is the substance ofsomething hopeful?
(43:52):
Well, that's what we callvision.
That's our imagination.
That's the substance ofsomething hopeful when you close
your eyes, dr B, and see yourvision.
That's the first part of faith.
And what is the evidence ofthings unseen?
What's the evidence thatChristmas is on the way?
What's the evidence thatEaster's in the air?
What's the evidence that it'sthe first day of school?
(44:12):
There is a feeling that'sassociated with certain
occurrences.
There's emotion, there'semoting that occurs when you are
in expectation of a thing.
So, if I'm expecting, if I amexcited if I am filled with joy
and gratitude about the visionthat I see coming to pass.
Sir, that is faith.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
Oh my gosh, I love it .
I'm going to turn you into apreacher here, Brisa.
You get out there and, oh mygosh, we're with people.
Speaker 1 (44:44):
It's just.
It's just.
It's become so practical to meand I wish it could be more
practical.
And again, we've been done adisservice in many ways and I'm
not going to go on disparagingthe black church, but we've done
we've been done a disservicebecause I am a man of faith but
I'm not a man of religion.
Miss me with that.
Speaker 2 (45:02):
Thank you for saying that, because, in the name of
religion, has done so manythings by man deciding what God
wants for you or for everybodyelse, and then coming up with
rules that are part of the Bible, that are part of you.
Know what I'm reading when I'm?
It's like you just make upstuff.
(45:23):
Well, you can't dance, because,well, david danced, and he
danced down the streets with noclothes on.
Speaker 1 (45:32):
Mardi Gras bro.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
Yeah, so, and I love it because, yeah, religion can
get us in trouble.
Speaker 1 (45:41):
For sure.
In all seriousness, absolutelyDon't decide.
It's a bad deal.
Speaker 2 (45:45):
Yeah, people say that the Bible is a book of religion
.
You know it has religion in it,but the Bible is a book about a
kingdom, about his kingdom.
Speaker 1 (45:56):
That's what we're learning about oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (45:59):
Oh, so I want to talk about help a little bit um, and
because one of the things thatyou said the average black man
in our country lives to 72.
That's what our, that's whatour stats say.
You and I both live, believethis.
For me, my dad's 86 right now,still running track weeks.
I'm not, you know, my mom's 80years old.
I have no thought whatsoeverthat I'm going to live to be.
(46:22):
You know that I'm only going tolive to be 72.
But there's things that we haveto do in order to maintain the
vessels that God has given uswhile we're here, even though
they're not going to be there ofours forever.
What are some of the thingsthat you've done and are able to
(46:42):
do to maintain that would behelpful for folks that want to
live?
Speaker 1 (46:50):
I think I want to touch on the one thing that
maybe isn't discussed a lot.
You know, yeah, I go to the gymfour or five times a week.
I try to monitor what I eat.
I enjoy food, but I'm mindful Idon't.
Sugar is not my thing, right, Ican get into those things, but
I I am a absolute believer thatminimizing or eliminating stress
(47:13):
is the fountain of youth.
Fountain of youth.
It's documented that only 5% ofall diseases are genetic.
Right, that all this stuff wesay, well, I got diabetes
because my mom and him haddiabetes.
Not, true, that is not passedon genetically.
Epigenetically, perhaps wedon't have time for that.
(47:34):
But perhaps epigeneticallybecause of the habits and
environment, but it is notgenetic.
But perhaps epigeneticallybecause of the habits and
environment, but it is notgenetic.
But what does egg on disease inour body is stress, because
stress causes you know what I'msaying?
All the bloods to go to ourextremities, fight or flight,
which leaves our gut exposed andcortisol attacks our organs.
(47:56):
Right, and it limits, not onlyaffects the quality of our life,
but it truly causes disease.
And think about disease.
It's two words togetherdis-ease, right, disease is a
lack of ease, and so it isstress that kills more Black men
than guns or drugs or alcohol.
(48:17):
It is the PTSD of being a Blackman in America that kills more
Black men than guns or drugs oralcohol.
It is the ptsd of being a blackman in america that kills more
black men than anything elsecombined.
It ages us, it causes all kindsof issues, it breaks our spirits
, it causes us to look through alens of paranoia and without
joy, and it is stress man.
And and without joy, and it isstress man.
(48:39):
And if we can work through wayswhich again is back to
self-work, if you notice, thatwas the theme coming from me If
we stay, if we focus on thethings we can control, what can
I?
How can I eliminate stress?
How can I look for things to bejoyful about?
I truly believe that that'lllengthen the life.
(49:01):
You know whomever, but we'retalking about black men.
But I truly believe we canchange that average if brothers
can learn how to deal with andeliminate stress.
Speaker 2 (49:08):
Yeah Well, and talk to me a little bit about the
mental health side of stress,like what do we have to do to
mentally have a healthy mindsetevery single day?
And I know it's going to kindof go back to our same theme you
know with, you know with thegratitude and everything else,
but I mean we have to becognizant that our mind plays a
(49:30):
big part of our health of ourbody and everything else Right.
Speaker 1 (49:33):
Yes, man, you are, you're nailing it.
It's the reps, right?
It's the reps, like we.
Let's just say, use church, forexample.
You go to church once a weekand maybe you're lifted for two
hours and then you go back intoyour life.
Or you go to therapy once aweek.
I mean, you name the, the, thesource that you use for help and
(49:54):
encouragement, but you don'ttake a bath once a week, right?
Speaker 2 (49:59):
I love that.
Well, some people might, but.
Speaker 1 (50:06):
You get my point.
You don't brush your teeth oncea week.
You do those things daily.
It's the reps that createsdental health.
It's the reps that creates goodhygiene.
It's the reps that will createmental hygiene and mental
wellness.
You've got to do it every day.
Speaker 2 (50:23):
Well, and to piggyback I mean not piggyback,
just to reference.
What you're saying is you'retalking about the reps.
Well, where you're at now isbased on the reps that you had.
That may not have beenproductive.
Speaker 1 (50:39):
Oh for sure.
You know, man, none of us areliving the outcomes of our of
our decisions today.
We're living the outcomes ofour decisions yesterday.
That's just how that goes right.
That's why the reps are soimportant.
You go to the gym, you're doingcurls.
You don't see muscle growing.
In fact, you're tearing downmuscle, the muscles growing when
(51:01):
you're asleep, wow anyway.
You don't see that happening.
But it's happening, and sothat's why we rep until failure,
we, we work on it until failure, because that's when the growth
is occurring well, I canremember growing up and, like
you know, my grandparents werein the man, the man.
Speaker 2 (51:18):
The man I mean, that was all they talked about is the
man.
The man did this, the man didthat.
That was reps, that they werespeaking into their world and we
live in that every single day.
Right, we have to be carefulwhat we tell our kids.
I have eight of them, you havefour of them.
I mean, how important is thereps of what you say to them on
a daily basis, what they, whatyou allow them to say about
(51:41):
themselves, in this world ofsocial media and everything else
where we're comparing ourselvesto not real life, these lives
that are you know, whateverwe're scrolling through, that is
their best life in most days.
And we this comparison thing ofthen we start telling this story
, thing of then we start tellingthis story to ourselves.
That could be just sodetrimental.
(52:02):
And we can tell that same storythe other direction every
single day, like you obviouslydo.
When you get up every singlemorning and you say, the first
thing you say is I'm thankfulthat I woke up, I'm thankful
that I'm here.
The other person who's snoozingis talking about.
I have to get up.
I'm thankful that.
Speaker 1 (52:21):
I'm here, the other person who's snoozing is like
well, I have to get up, man,you're touching on something so
powerful, and that is even forme.
That option is available, right, those, both choices are always
available.
That is the irony of this thingthat I'm not special.
I'm not somehow anointed tohave a positive attitude.
I'm not chosen to be positive.
(52:43):
I wake up with the sameopportunity to say, oh my gosh,
here's the day, god, I got tomeet with this guy.
This bill is due.
I have the same option.
I have the same life.
I have the same things that arethere, but I get to choose how
I approach them.
Things that are there, but Iget to choose how I approach
(53:06):
them.
I get to choose how I interactwith those things and, as a
result, my outcomes are alwaysworking out for my good period,
so so good.
Speaker 2 (53:14):
We've been talking almost an hour and it seems like
it's been like oh, there's somuch, so much wisdom in the
things that you've been saying.
Is there anything that that youwanted to make sure you shared
today, as you thought aboutcoming on this podcast and and
sharing with you know, myaudience and whoever else's
audiences that out there thatyou just want to let folks know?
(53:36):
I'd love for you to share thatwith us.
Speaker 1 (53:38):
You know I was talking to a young brother when
I say young, probably in hisearly 30s, but he's young and
married, had one little kid, andhe was talking to me about
feeling unappreciated with thethings that he does, and so I
(53:59):
said something to him, and whenI said it to him, he started
crying.
He's not one of those guys thatjust cries out of the blue,
which is nothing wrong with that, I've got nothing.
I cry too.
I cry as well.
Nothing wrong with crying.
But he started almostuncontrollably crying because
what I said touched him in a waythat I had no idea would, even
though the thought of it touchesme deeply.
So I'm going to share that withthe audience.
(54:22):
I asked him did he know what aload-bearing wall was in the
structure?
And he said well, not really.
I said well, in any structure ahouse, apartment, a building
there are many walls, there aremany beams and there are lots of
pillars in that building.
But there are certain pillarsor walls in a structure that if
(54:47):
those are taken out, the entirestructure would fall.
So those walls bear far moreload than it appears.
In other words, it looks likeevery wall in the house is
carrying the same weight, butthe low-bearing wall actually
carries more weight.
So the other walls could belooking at the low-bearing wall
(55:09):
saying what's your problem?
We're carrying the same weight,when in fact the low-bearing
wall by its very nature justcarries more it has to, or the
structure will fall.
So when I said that, the youngbrother just reacted so much, I
(55:31):
thought man, I guess there'ssomething to that.
Right, he's feeling thatpressure and feeling like that
pressure is not being recognized.
And my point to him was don'texpect it to be recognized,
don't need that.
What you need is to fortifyyourself.
What you need is surroundyourself with other low bearing
walls that say you're doinggreat, you're doing okay.
(55:53):
Which is what I ultimately toldhim man, you're doing a great
job, don't quit, don't come down.
Man, you're doing a great job,don't quit, don't come down.
But our expectation to get a paton the back for just being a
man, we have to.
We have to quell that.
We've got to.
We've got to know that we aregood enough.
Back to what you said aboutbeing enough.
We've got to know that, even ifwe don't get that recognition,
(56:15):
even if we don't, if a womandoesn't give us the kudos we
need, we have to know what thatis to be the load-bearing wall,
not expect a cookie for it,right, but then look for ways to
be fortified, build community,find other men that you can be
in conversation with that youcan talk about the load that you
(56:35):
bear, so that you don't have tofeel like an island, and you'll
find out very quickly thatthere are many other
load-bearing walls around youhaving the same experience I
love it because you know, as I'mthinking through your that
analogy, which is so good, isyou don't have to be the
(56:56):
load-bearing wall in every house.
Speaker 2 (56:59):
Right, you can be a little.
You have to be in the one thatyou're in right now, all those
people that you go around.
That's why all those people letthey can be the low bearing
wall in another house, yes, butyou need to go visit the other
house.
You can't stay in your ownhouse and expect everything to
take on everything yourself verygood, absolutely you know
because in the father's house hehas many mansions right and so
(57:21):
many minutes you know, oh mygosh, you do it, I do it, we've
all done it as men, particularlyas black men, and so yeah.
Well, that's why this is thisconversation we're having is so
important, because he can listento this and go wait a minute.
This guy took this is how hetook on his load-bearing wall
(57:43):
and he came out of it and wasable to visit another wall and
then the bear, because the loaddidn't seem like it was so, so
heavy.
He's able to build more andable to move more, but you don't
know how to do that if you'restuck in the middle of the house
, right?
no you can't see the outside,you can't see the windows, you
can't.
Speaker 1 (58:00):
You can't move, you're just stuck you just stop,
man, you just stopped well,james, thank you for so much for
for taking your time today.
Speaker 2 (58:09):
I know you're busy man.
You got things got you goingand ripping and roaring, like
all of us do, but to take thetime to, to share with, uh, the
folks that are listening to ithas has been an honor, it has
been a treat, it has been for me, just a wonderful, incredible
conversation that I willcontinue to, you know, to talk
(58:30):
about and to tell people andutilize your analogies.
You've had such good analogiestoday that I'm going to, you
know, I took, you know, two orthree pages of notes and just
thank you again for being here.
Speaker 1 (58:43):
Thank you, dr B.
Again, I'm humbled to justhavea conversation with a
like-minded man Like we justright clicked, because we
definitely are resonating on thesame frequency, if you will,
and that's what makes it work,man, and I need that in my life
on a regular basis.
Speaker 2 (59:03):
Absolutely, and so those of you who are watching,
if the episode meant somethingto you and it was something, go
ahead and watch it again.
It's recorded for that purpose,if there's somebody that you
know that could benefit from thethings that we talked about
today even if they don't, theydecide not to watch it.
(59:23):
All you can do is share withthem and let them know that it's
available.
Hit the subscribe button,because we have episodes coming
out all the time that are thosethat can help you not have to be
that low barrier wall in themiddle of the room trying to
figure it out all on your own.
Hey, folks, I don't forget thatyour God's greatest gift is not
you, if you allow him to, andwe'll talk to you on the next
one.
You guys have an amazing,awesome, incredible day and
we'll see you on the next one.
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