Why Trust Is Your Key To Success

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Join an inspiring conversation with David Horsager, a global trust expert, exploring how trust shapes success in life, business, and relationships. Visit  www.thepodcastingchallenge.com for tools to start a lead-generating podcast!

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David Horsager, renowned as the global authority on trust, takes us on a profound journey from humble beginnings on a Minnesota bean farm to revolutionizing how organizations approach trust worldwide. With raw honesty, he shares the struggle of starting his mission with just $1.40 to his name, living in a basement with black mold, and the unwavering faith that carried him through years of uncertainty.

The conversation reveals a groundbreaking insight that transformed businesses across six continents: most organizational problems aren't actually leadership, communication, or sales issues—they're trust issues. This revelation has led companies to drop attrition by millions of dollars, gain significant market share, and even helped the Navy reduce suicide rates after training 15,000 personnel.

In our increasingly divided world, Horsager explains why institutional trust has plummeted from 80% to just 7% in America and how algorithmic media is deepening our divides. "Every algorithm is set for selfishness," he warns, highlighting how social platforms manipulate our attention without building genuine connection. Yet amid this crisis, he offers hope through his research-backed framework of eight trust pillars that provide practical tools for rebuilding relationships.

Perhaps most compelling is Horsager's emphasis on personal development as the foundation of trustworthiness. "Organizations don't change—individuals do," he explains, sharing how his 31-year accountability relationship has shaped his character. In a culture obsessed with immediacy and entertainment, he advocates for the transformative power of consistency in small actions, humility in leadership, and intentional relationship-building with people different from ourselves.

Whether you're struggling with team dynamics, family relationships, or societal divisions, this conversation offers more than inspiration—it provides actionable wisdom to transform how you build and maintain trust in every area of life. Discover why Forbes named "Trust Matters" the top business book of the year and how its principles can help you become not just more successful, but more trustworthy. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Every algorithm is set for selfishness, and that
means for Facebook, instagramand the same.
With all these, they just wanteyeballs.
You've got to know that you'rebeing played every time you're
on social media and you have tobe incredibly intentional to not
be deceived.

Speaker 2 (00:32):
All right, welcome to another edition of Living
Boldly With Purpose Today.
Oh my gosh, today is one ofthese podcasts that I'm so
excited you know I've done Idon't know if you know this,
david, but I've done over 170episodes of the Journey to
Freedom.
I've done over 60 episodes nowof Living Boldly with Purpose

(00:53):
and almost every single episodeI've been talking about you and
what you've been able to do inmy life and how you helped me
and I finally get you onto mypodcast and I finally get to
talk about it.
And I don't even know how muchyou know about how much the
event that I went to yours thatimpacted me.
And so David is our guest todayand we're going to talk a lot

(01:15):
about how the things that hedoes.
But it was probably about ayear and a half, almost two
years ago.
I was invited to a seminar thatwas based on trust and I had no
clue.
I was just, you know, somebodyinvited me, said you got to show
up, you got to be here, and Iget to this room and I realized

(01:37):
that I don't know a lot abouthow trust impacts us.
I don't know about.
You know how it's impacted mylife and different things, you
know, and he pulls out thesethings like, hey, we need to
make a shield, and I'm like,what the heck is a shield, you
know?
And but one of the things thatkind of spurred on the changes
in my life is, I went to theseminar and, you know, as people

(02:02):
are coming up and speakers arecoming up, I'm looking around
the room and you know, and I'm,as you can tell, I'm a person of
color and I'm looking to seehow many other folks of color in
the room and I, you know, I sayto myself all the time, david,
I say it doesn't matter, colordoesn't matter, race doesn't
matter.
And yet, when I go to places, Ialways count.

(02:23):
I see who's in the room, wholooks, looks like me, who's
doing the things, and you hadsome incredible speakers of
color that came up and werespeaking.
There wasn't a lot of us in theroom, but the information was
so impactful it changed the waythat I thought it changed my.
You know, I guess, sometimes,when you say, I guess, I don't

(02:43):
know, aristotle said when thestudent appears, whoever said
that, you know, the teacher'sready when the student appears,
and I'm like, all right, thestudent is here now.
The teacher showed up and sofor three, three and a half days
that I was there, I was soakingup the information like a
sponge and I came back and said,well, how do I get this One?

(03:05):
Why is my community not here?
And I've kind of realized overtime, is the circle of people
not the fault of their own thatcame to your seminar are just
not circles that my communityruns in all the time.
And so I was fortunate enoughto be invited by one of our good
friends named Scott, and he'sbeen on one of our podcasts here
that he said I want you to beinvited by one of our good
friends named Scott.
He's been on one of ourpodcasts here that he said I

(03:26):
want you to be here.
And it has impacted and changed.
I came back and I got togetherwith a few other men and I said
I want to do something.
How do I do it right thissecond?
And they're like, well, youcan't just do it right this
second, but they were willing toengage with me.
They met with me.
I had a whole bunch I don'tknow 10, 15 meetings with a guy

(03:50):
named Mark Williams andCornelius and Scott and they
just kind of, they just loved onme.
They loved on me and theylistened to me and they let me
just talk and talk and talk andput out all this stuff.
And so my podcast that I justtalked about, journey to Freedom
, came out of that.
It was I put some coachingstuff together and I said, you

(04:10):
know, and I started, you know,with God and I said God, what do
you want me to do?
I think you want me to workwith people of color and he goes
well, I want you to work withblack men.
And I'm like, well, I don'tthink I want to work with Black
men because it's going to betough to do it and we just don't
, our community just doesn't.
We don't trust ourselves, whichis hard to do.
We don't trust our wives, ourspouses, our women.

(04:32):
Very well, we don't trust ourcommunities.
You know, sometimes we don'ttrust white culture.
I mean, we have a huge issuewith trust.
And I'm like, well, how am Igoing to get this information?
And I said I'm just going tostart interviewing successful
Black men and find out exactlywhat it is that they do or have
been doing to be successful.
And to me, success isn't youknow the amount of money you

(04:55):
have, it's.
You know how do you interactinto your community, how does
your community respect you?
You know how do you walkthrough life knowing that you're
living in purpose that we'retalking to today, and so this
journey.
And so when people ask me, well, why are you doing this?
I say David Horsager, I hadthis seminar and I went to it
and I learned all this stuff,and now I'm going to throw up on

(05:17):
you and tell you everythingthat I learned as a result of it
and you're going to be betterfor it, and so I don't know how
well that's working, but I havepeople that I get to interview.
It has been the biggestblessing over the last year and
a half in my life being able todo the podcast and being able to
talk to men that I neverthought possible.

(05:37):
Some are famous singers, someare, you know, I talked to a
rapper yesterday.
Some are military folks, Someare, you know, you know actors,
and it's just.
I did a podcast when I firststarted.
There's a gentleman that I'vebeen watching.
His name is Myron Goldman, ablack gentleman who talks about
business strategy and you know,and talks and helps people

(05:58):
through biblical principles.
Learn about the Bible, you know.
Learn about not only the Bible,but learn about business.
Learn about the Bible, you know, learn about not only the Bible
, but learn about business.
And I said when I first cameback and I was telling I'm going
to Myron's going to be on mypodcast.
I promise you, it took me oneyear, and two weeks ago he
finally came onto my podcast,and so that was one of the
highlights of this.
But now I get to have you on,and so I've asked David to tell

(06:21):
his story.
I know I told you all that justbecause I wanted to give
context to why I'm so excited.
But I'm going to have us tell astory and then we're going to
chop it up about all the things,a lot of things that I learned,
gonna want to go back andlisten to not only that.
You're gonna want to share itwith somebody, because
somebody's gonna get like what Igot.

(06:48):
Now I'm special and I know I'mspecial.
There's issues with with howexcited I am, but I want to make
sure that that you listen.
So, dave, thank you for beingon.
I know I just I talk more thanI usually talk at the beginning,
but I just want you to be ableto tell your story.
Tell us who you are and why Igot so excited about you.

Speaker 1 (07:07):
Oh my Well.
Thank you so much, dr DavidHorsire.
Trust Edge Leader.
I'm the CEO of Trust EdgeLeadership Institute, but I'm
passionate about trust, how itaffects organizations.
It's so fun to be with you.
It was so fun to have you atthe Trusted Leader Summit All
the stuff we're doing here outof the Institute.
But you know my story grew up inthe poorest County in Minnesota
on a bean farm.

(07:28):
Six kids I was the youngest momand dad six kids grew up under
great leadership.
You can grow up under terribleleadership and learn a lot.
You can grow up under goodleadership and learn a lot, and,
as I often say, it's not myfault.
I had a good leader.
Like, it's not anybody's fault,they didn't.
It's just you learn from whereyou are, and I was fortunate
that way.
Skip Ford I was, you know.

(07:50):
After college I went on to workwith the biggest Christian
sports camp in the country,ended up leading some there.
Some people saw, at a veryyoung age, an opportunity for
leadership there, so that wasgreat.
My I basically ended up beingasked to speak at events, and I
built this leadership curriculum.
I was younger though, so it waslike youth events, christian

(08:11):
youth events, that kind of thingand schools.
But there was a company thatasked me and basically I'm
working with this company.
I still remember where I waswhen the epiphany happened,
first of all, when Lisa and Ileft that ministry, living on a
golf course and all these kindof things, and we moved back to

(08:33):
Minnesota to start this kind ofspeaking and consulting and
coaching and we by October had$1.40 to our name, 60 cents in
the home account, 80 cents inthe business account, not
another penny.
Couldn't find an apartment thatwe could afford rent in.
So 86-year-old Clara Miller,let us live in a basement with

(08:55):
no windows, no bathroom and nokitchen.
It had black mold on the walls.
We could go three flights upand share her bathroom, two
flights up, and she had a littlehalf of a shelf on the fridge.
We lived go three flights upand share her bathroom, two
flights up, and she had a littlehalf of a shelf on the fridge.
We lived there for two years.
We were on our knees, fastedevery Wednesday for 24 hours.
We were just, you know, and Iwas just it's just crazy Like we

(09:19):
had nothing.
We put everything we had intothis.
I remember asking my brother youtalk about, you know, living
boldly, and this isn't me.
I asked my brother.
I said you know this isn't, bythe way, advice for everybody.
But I said, should I get apart-time job?
Should Lisa go back and teachagain?
No, we're in our twenties.
And he said, david, you need tofocus on this 100%.

(09:41):
If you do, you'll make it, butif you, if you deviate you know
you've heard the statementdiluted focus gets diluted
results and I just said, okay,and so we, we had ups and downs
for the decade from 1999 to 2009.
We had some huge wins, speakingat the us coast guard academy
and working with senior leaders,and we had some huge losing it

(10:03):
about losing everything threetimes.
So that first decade was tough,but it was early 2000.
And, uh, basically, um, acouple of interesting things
happened.
One I was doing a ministryevent and got asked to speak at
the academy.
Uh, and the guy said, hey, weneed this here.
The commanding officer, officer, just pull that bible stuff out
.
And, um, that that wassomething.

(10:28):
It was around that time that Iwas, I remember.
I remember it because it wasthe most expensive place.
I feel like I'd ever stayeduntil that point.
And you know, we've gottenputting up in the nice.
But back then, before we hadfour kids and lisa and I are
staying at the Lowe's Resort Ithink it's Scottsdale or Tucson,

(10:48):
arizona and it was unbelievable.
You know, it's like in thosedays like $500 a night or
whatever they put us up in.
We thought it was like amazing.
But I still remember where Iwas on the deck looking at the
stars after a full day at thisconference leadership thing, and
I'm looking up the stars and itwasn't some big epiphany,
actually, it was just like arealization, like I don't think

(11:10):
the problem they think they'rehaving is the real problem.
I don't think it's a leadershipissue.
I think they don't follow theguy because they don't trust him
.
And then I started thinking Idon't think it's a sales issue
over here.
They don't trust the product orthe person or something they're
not innovating because they'renot trusting each other, so they
they're scared to share ideas.

(11:30):
People don't trust that message, so it doesn't mean anything as
far as marketing is concerned.
I started to see this trustissue in a classroom.
People aren't learning, why not?
They don't trust the teacher orthe message or the content or
the whatever.
So I started to see this trustissue.
That was really importantbecause that led to my grad work
and I was not thinking aboutgrad work, we didn't have really
money for it.
But I got in and I did mymaster's and when I started, a

(11:54):
lot of people like think abouttheir dissertation stuff.
Later I knew exactly what I wasgoing to write every paper on
before I ever even started andeverything I did was about trust
.
And then, of course, mycornerstone, my dissertation
stuff was also, and that wasgroundbreaking because it was
for many.
It was one of the many peoplethat are much more important

(12:14):
than me thought it wasinteresting and really proved
out how a lack of trust is thebiggest expense in a company and
biggest expense in anorganization, and people have
started to see it.
It's a trust issue.
Trust is the biggest expense ina company and biggest expense
in an organization, and peopleare starting to see it.
It's a trust issue.
Trust is the root issue, notleadership, not communication,
not sales, and so that was thefirst company we really used

(12:35):
that in.
They dropped attrition by twoto four million dollars in nine
months and then we had a company.
You know as the years went on.
Then we then, you know, we hadthe company.
You know, as the years went on,then we then, you know, um.
We had the fifth biggestcompany in the world, um, say
they had engagement scores thatgo up for the first time in 14
years in a poisonous unit.
And then we had, uh, 1450companies say they gained 11

(12:57):
market share in a billion dollarunit and we had someone say it
tripled their sales and we hadsomeone say it saved their
marriage.
And we had um last year, theAdmiral of the Navy that you saw
at the event that.
Admiral say, you helped us dropsuicide rates in the Navy after
we trained 15,000 people in thistrust work.
So that original framework cameout of that work way back.
That was revalidated again by auniversity in 2020 and outside

(13:20):
university, that originalframework of how trust is built
globally.
We've used that in pro sportsteams.
We've used it in businesses,global governments, presence of
countries and companies acrosssix continents.
I'm passionate about it becauseI've seen it work firsthand and
, of course, I've seen it workin myself, even even though I'm
totally imperfect at everythingI teach.
But the journey there was.

(13:40):
First of all, we had thiscontent.
Then I said, well, we should beable to measure it and measure
gaps.
So we built these measurementtools an enterprise trust index
that measures not just like aGallup, measures engagement.
It measures trust andengagement.
The team trust assessment, allthe other ways measuring trust.
We started to see results.
I was speaking more and more,up to 100 times a year, more

(14:01):
than that, I guess, some years.
And then in 2012 or 13, westarted certifying people to use
this work, to train it in theircompanies, to share it through
organizations.
So if we really fast forward,there's a lot of other miracles
for books and bestsellers.
And the first one really is themiracle, the trust edge
becoming a Wall Street Journalbestseller when I had no idea

(14:23):
about marketing.
A lot of people kind of buytheir way to the top and all
that.
I didn't know what I was doingand that was a really a miracle.
The other books, I think likeeven my little book that I'm not
as proud of was 12 Weeks on theHudson List or more, I guess.
So anyway, the new book justcame out.
Trust Matters More Than Ever.
That's really tool focused.
That's got the tools you canuse tomorrow morning.

(14:45):
I'm really a trusted leader.
I really love that book,actually for other reasons.
So I just finished, turned inlast week my next book that
comes out next November, whichis Trust at a Distance how to
Manage Remote Work Teams,building Trust Remotely,
basically, but a couple ofthings.
So, way back, we startedcertifying people.

(15:06):
The books you know have comeout consistently and done well
in spite of me.
I speak at a lot of events.
We do research.
That's.
The uniqueness here is that wedo our own primary research, an
annual study called the TrustOutlook.
Any of your people can have it,but that puts us as really the
thought leaders.
I, I wish I could quote itexactly right, but I think
forbes, just uh, what they saidin 2024 was um, uh, david horser

(15:32):
is the global authority ontrust, or something like that.
Um also said this book rightback to my right trust matters
is the top business book of theyear.
So it was kind of cool.
Um, anyway, the you.
Basically, we would say thisout of Trust Edge Leadership
Institute.
These days we do four things.
First, we do research thatkeeps us fresh and relevant, on

(15:54):
top of things.
Then we do ICE, i-c-e.
That's because we live inMinnesota, so we got to spell it
.
I love it, love it, love it.

Speaker 2 (16:00):
So the I is to fulfill this mission of
developing trusted leaders andorganizations.

Speaker 1 (16:02):
We do that, love it.
So I the I is to fulfill thismission of developing trusted
leaders and organizations, thatwe do that because it helps
people the most.
Trust is really what works.
Trust really is what matters.
A lack of trust really is thebiggest expense in organizations
, families and teams.
So how do we?
How do we do that?
I is inspire a shift ofthinking around trust.
That's a lot of David.

(16:23):
Actually.
That's a lot of my speaking, mybooks, that's the research.
I sit on some boards, advisoryboards, and I'm on a board in
Washington DC.
I'm the only non-senatorrepresentative, the only
non-member of Congress, thatbrings Republicans and Democrats
together.
So that's a lot of me practice.
The C is clarify and measuretrust in organizations and teams

(16:43):
.
So that's our enterprise trustindex.
That's our measurement tools.
The E is equip and that's wherewe certify others to use our
work, and that has taken a biglevel up this year.
A few months you're going tosee a whole transformation there
.
But it's amazing people like youthat are part of this certified
community that are using ourtrust work in context to solve
big issues.

(17:04):
So they're using it.
Half of them about are using itin companies from you know
where Ohio State University orUnited Health Group or whatever
it is, and then about half areindependent coaches that use it
in their coaching practice.
They might be certified inother things like DISC or
StrengthsFinder.
They're also certified in thistrust work, and so they have

(17:27):
access to our PowerPoints andour training material and our
measurement tools and a reallycool community.
So that's the equip part of it.
So I is inspire.
Trust C is clarify and measure.
Trust E is equip people to takethis work to the world.
So that's what we're doingtoday.
There's a lot of things I'mexcited about, but I'm really

(17:48):
excited about the leveling up onour, our team and our platform.
That serves those, those, thosecertified partners, even better
.

Speaker 2 (17:59):
So cool because you know I've heard a lot before,
but just to to kind of hear youwalk through what that's like.
I'd love to hear about youridentity as you think about
moving into trust.
And you went from this personwho's living in this room with
mold and everything in it andyou don't have it, and you say
I'm going to go do this, I'mgoing to change.

(18:21):
How did you have to change inorder to be able to affect and
work with so many justincredible individuals?

Speaker 1 (18:30):
Well, I think the one thing that people, as far as
identity, have to have is, to me, trust.
There's two things trusting God, trusting beyond yourself and
also trusting yourself, andthere's a verse in scripture
that gets taken out of contextabout you trust himself will be
put to shame or whatever that's.
There's a truth to that, butit's different than the one I'm
talking about.

(18:50):
There is a part of we need totrust how God made us the best
God made us to be, the trust,and many people don't trust
themselves because they makecommitments that they don't keep
.
So when they say I'm going tobe there and they don't, they
start to not trust themselvesand then they think no one else
could be trustworthy.
You've got to make and keepcommitments if you're going to

(19:11):
be trust, mostly to trustyourself.
It's like the idea love yourneighbors yourself.

Speaker 2 (19:16):
You got to love yourself.

Speaker 1 (19:17):
If you're going to love someone else, well, same
with trust.
If you're going to build trust,you got to trust yourself.
So I think the one massive giftthat I was given growing up in
an entrepreneurial family- hey,it's Dr B, and let me ask you
something just here real quick.

Speaker 2 (19:31):
Are you tired of doing the same thing over and
over and not getting the resultsyou want?
Are you serious about makingsome changes this year that will
impact you in a huge way?
Maybe you're putting outcontent right now and it's not
turning into customers.
Or maybe you're uploadingvideos, but you're not sure why
or how it's even going to help.
You know, I see a lot of peoplethat are making a whole bunch
of cold calls to the wrongpeople and no one's answering.

(19:52):
No one wants to talk to you.
It might just be that you'rejust doing what you've been
doing and crossing your fingershoping it finally works this
year, but let me tell you what.
That is not a strategy and itwill continue not to work.
That's why I created thepodcasting challenge and it's
coming up fast.
In just a few days, I'm goingto walk you through the mindset,

(20:13):
the tool set and the skill setyou need to create a powerful
podcast.
That's right, a podcast.
You won't believe what apodcast can do, one that builds
real value and creates newclients.
And if you grab a VIP ticket,you'll get to join me for a
daily Zoom Q&A sessions whereI'll personally answer your
questions and help you tailoreverything to your goals.

(20:34):
This is your moment.
This is your year.
Go to thepodcastingchallengecomright now and save your seat.
The link is in the show notesand the description.
Thank you for watching thesepodcasts.

Speaker 1 (20:45):
Now let's get back to the conversation that were, uh,
my, my dad was entrepreneur, mybrothers have started
businesses and and my, there wasa big belief.
And I know not everybody getsthis, I know it's not fair, but
my family believed in me andthey believed in the best of me
and that was massive.
You know, lisa's grandma saidsomething and Lisa said it at

(21:06):
her funeral.
She said you know, grandmaTeddy, she believed in us even
when we didn't believe inourselves.
And she and there's somethingcritical she said it much more
eloquently, but there's it'sit's critical to have someone
that believes in you even whenyou don't believe in yourself.
And I had that.
So, when you talk about trust,I had this trust, this belief,

(21:28):
even in 2014, when I was in thepits and I thought or, excuse me
, 2004, when I just thought am Iever?
Is this ever going to reallygrow?
People say it's great, but Ican't afford.
You know, whatever.
I remember when our first kidour first kid of the four is the
one that remembers when wedidn't have money, kind of,

(21:49):
because in kindergarten, publicschool she's the only kid in the
kindergarten that the parentswouldn't buy a $7 t-shirt for
all the kids to go on the littletrip together and the teacher
ended up buying it for us.
I'll never forget that.
But there was also a beliefthat we're going to do this, we

(22:09):
can do this, God can guide us.
We really did have a trust, aconcrete trust in God and a
trust in each other and a trustthat we were given this to do it
.
And faith grew little by little.
Some people are like oh, youhad that, so you knew the North
Star.
No, not every day.
Now we can look back andremember, but it wasn't, you
know, so easy.

(22:30):
So I think a lot of people missout.
You talk about living boldly.
A lot of people miss out onamazing miracles because they
don't live boldly and don't stepout in faith and don't do all
they could do.
I mean, I can't imagine there'snothing I'd rather be doing.
You know so.
But I almost missed it.
I almost took other thingsbecause if another job would
have come up many times when Icouldn't put food on the table,

(22:50):
one time I almost did.
I got an offer.
All I had to do was sign it andturn it back in.
I made a call, called the CEOto just ask a question about it
and they thought I was likefussing and they pulled it, the
offer when I would have taken ina second, and then I didn't
have any more and went back tofocus on the book and I remember
we didn't have much in thefirst book.

(23:12):
Trusted, I said, Lisa, I've beenworking on this after my grad
work.
I think if I just focus for twomonths I can get it done.
Just focus Two years later, ohwow.
Focus two years later, oh wow.
I mean I had no help from Chad,GPT or anything you know.
So there was a lot of steps inthere.
And I mean I think the otherthing is surrounding yourself

(23:34):
with people like Lisa, my wife,who it would be really hard if
you had, someone like naggingand needy and wanting to buy the
best of stuff when you don'thave money, and like she was.
You know she was with me andthat was massive in this whole,
this whole process.
I mean she was a missionary kidin Africa and came back.

(23:55):
You know, like she, I, we weregame for living in that.
We lived there for two years.
The day we left there was twoinches of water in the basement.
No way we're trying to get ourstuff out of there.
Well, it was not all too soakedand um so you know, I don't, I
don't know, but but there's acouple, there's gifts along the
way and I can talk about thisthat might would help others,

(24:17):
and that is the tool.
Like this framework turned outto have lasting power and it was
simple enough for people tounderstand and it was clear and
it was usable, actionable.
We hear it all the time fromthe biggest companies in the
world like, oh, I can finallyuse this.
Under each of those pillars, wehave tools, simple tools, so
we're good at taking theresearch and simplifying it to
things that people can use, andthat was.

(24:38):
You know.
I can talk about the differencein what we do and others and
why it works, but let me youknow yeah, I want you to.

Speaker 2 (24:47):
I I have a couple.
Just, you know I get clarifyingquestions because I one of the
things that I've been uhwrestling with over is is the
family and the unit, and youknow, we I was talking to
somebody yesterday, we weretalking about how our grandmas
used to, you know, talk to usand say you're going to be great
, you're going to be wonderful,you're going to be amazing, you

(25:08):
got this.
And I don't know if that's kindinto folks or to their kids, or
they're just taking their kidsaround to try to give them
experiences.
How much of what your belief inare them telling you?

(25:32):
Your grandma say, hey, I wantyou to get the best of you out
of you.
You know, and you're going tobe this great played a part in
you going.
I'm going to go through this,I'm going to.

Speaker 1 (25:43):
I actually don't know exactly, but I can tell you
this it wasn't just saying goodjob.
I don't remember my dad sayingmuch.
I don't remember him saying heloved me that much, okay, but I
do remember feeling it, seeingthe beliefs see, sensing it.
Yeah, I also yeah, because Ithink it's a big problem to say.

(26:04):
One of the worst things forself-esteem is saying to someone
good job when they didn't do agood job.
Oh gosh, yes, yeah, that'sfalse, and we've got a lot of
that happening in the worldtoday.
Letting people fail, lettingpeople learn, letting people win
.
I think that's a lot better.
I think I could have done abetter job and for me personally
, it was different because oneof the agonies for me was being

(26:26):
gone from my family and all thespeaking I had to do, because
there was times early on whenI'd finally get a speaking event
and I felt like you know, wejust had a kid three days ago at
born or something, and I feellike I never missed a birth.
But I mean, it was close andI'm it's God grace in that and
yet feeling like I got to goharvest they're not going to
have anything to eat and justthat tension was tough, lisa and

(26:50):
I talk about it now.
It's like we're made to be,we're very unified, but we're
good apart some and goodtogether some, like there's some
good to that, but we also oneof our kids was authentically
sharing this last weekend,easter weekend, like you know
that I had to leave, sometimeswhen it was tough for mom, four
kids, five and under, and sothere's a little bit of blame

(27:11):
toward me, and so, you know,there was challenges with that
too, and I felt that I mean I'msensitive, so I felt bad and yet
like what should I do here?
You know?
So that's part of thatentrepreneurial thing.
I think there's a couple thingsaround that.
One is we have to, um, you know, we have to deal with that and

(27:32):
we have to really know what ourpriorities are and why my family
, my wife, would know God is mypriority, family's a priority,
even when I'm gone, me is apriority, even when I'm gone.
I think there is a littledeception in our culture today
of selfishness and of likeyou're not a good dad, for

(27:53):
instance, if you're not at everysingle game, and I think that's
totally unhealthy.
I remember being at thisChristian sports camp and the
guy stood up and gave atestimony.
It's like how his mom was greatbecause she was at every game
and I'm like that's not thereason my dad wasn't, he was
farming, he was out in the field.
He came maybe to one game ayear.

(28:14):
He missed parents night for mysisters, which they remember,
which was kind of that was alittle tough, but he, they all
know now like he loved them.
It's like you had to harvestthose beans through the night,
or you don't get them, they getcracked, whatever.
So um, I, I, I just think it'salso there's an unfair lie of

(28:35):
what makes good and not good insome ways.
But still, time does spell love.

Speaker 2 (28:41):
I mean love spell, you know yeah, no, and I can
remember I think of, like whenmy kids were, you know, growing
up and you know now that they'reolder and you know my someone
who played baseball and I'm likethere's 67 games, like if I go
to 67 games we don't eat.
I mean, we gotta make adecision here.
This you know that's.

(29:03):
You know, and I'm sure thatthere's some parents were able
to do that, but I so agree withyou on that.
You know that whole aspect ofthat, you could feel it.

Speaker 1 (29:14):
There's a lot of parents there at every game that
aren't loving in other ways.

Speaker 2 (29:17):
Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 (29:18):
They're not helping in other ways and they're not
letting them grow up and they'rehelicoptering and there are a
lot of other things.
So I think every one of my kidsthey know that, they know that
I love them no matter what, andI think I don't think that's the
only being at those.
Now, time does matter, sothere's a truth to it, but it's
also not, um, it's not only that.

(29:40):
Yeah, in fact, by the way, thisis interesting for people
listening Maybe.
I was just reading a piece ofresearch that said the number
one most important builder ofself-confidence in youth.
You have a guess, teacher?
It's not saying good job.

Speaker 2 (29:56):
Oh well, you're talking about what they're doing
.
Is, I don't know, awarding themfor something they did?

Speaker 1 (30:02):
I don't know, no no, no, awards have nothing to do
with it.
Okay, number oneself-confidence builder,
self-esteem builder in youth ishelping them know where they
came from.
Really, you, you that, you, youtalk about identity.
This is why it can be reallychallenging for the adopted,
because that and that's whythere's a sense of I need to

(30:23):
know where I came from, even ifit wasn't good.
It has nothing to do with goodor not, it is knowing where you
came from and seeing where youcame from you talk about
identity.
So we would take like familymeetings and say, hey, grandpa
came from here, or he logs camedown the river and many people
died when they took the log jamsout and he opened up the lot.

(30:45):
You know, whatever it is, theyknew where they came from and,
of course, it's good if you cangive some proud moments that
they can be proud of too intheir family.
And, as you can imagine, thisis also a whole stack against
black people, because manydidn't get the opportunity to
know where they came from.
So doesn't mean it's fair, it'sjust research it's research.

Speaker 2 (31:08):
We're saying that yeah so I'm.

Speaker 1 (31:11):
so this is like why it's it's really important to
share, not so, not all.
It's important to share whereyou came from, and this is why
god can be a replacement.
Hey, here's where you reallycame from, you know so Wow, that
just, I mean that.

Speaker 2 (31:26):
Just I mean I got chills as you were saying that,
cause I started thinking aboutthe group that we took to
Alabama.
And you know, I took a group ofmen to Alabama to kind of just
see our roots and stuff.
And then I have my.
I have twin boys that weadopted and one of them is going
through.
Uh, we gave him.
He says I kind of want to knowwhere I came from, I want to
know.
And we gave him like the23andme kit or something.

(31:48):
We let them take it.
And then he found, uh, likewhen we adopted him we had a um,
we were at the agency in in inbrooklyn and he had a little
brother that was there at thesame time but the new adopted
parents were taking him.
And we asked that, we said we'dlove to be able to connect and

(32:09):
these guys can still know eachother as brothers.
And that family said we don'twant anything to do with them,
we don't want them to know.
And then so when they did the23andMe, they found that brother
and that brother said he didn'teven know he's adopted till he
was 18.
And then when he found out,then you goes well, how come,

(32:31):
you know he remembers glimpse of.
You know there were four whenwe got him and it was just
amazing.
And now he found his mom and hefound and he's like now he has
this other family.
But he's asking me questionslike well, why didn't you tell
us all this?
Why didn't you, even if it wasgood or bad, how come you didn't
reach out and try to find allthis information for me?
And I'm like I did the best Icould.
I had no idea.
I didn't.

(32:52):
You know, when we got it, we,you had some issues.
You guys were crack babies.
This wasn't like we.
Just, you know there was.
You know when we, when we gotyou, we had, you know we worked.
But at the same time, you knowI figured, hey, someday in life,
if you want to, we will supportthat.
But at the same time, you're100% on that where you're just

(33:12):
saying, wait a minute, that's tohim now.
That is so important to knowwhere his roots are, to know
they went to I guess you know anuncle's funeral or something
not too long ago, but just andmet all the family, you know.
And then you know, and nowthey're asking themselves
questions why and why and why.
And so, oh my gosh, I want tokind of jump to the, I guess,

(33:32):
the macro, and then maybe we cancome micro on trust, because I
think about our country and ournation and you know how divided
and split we are and we don'ttrust, and I think a lot of it
is just, you know, this lackmentality If you have something,
then I can't, and so I have to,you know, back and forth.
But that all talks about trust.

(33:54):
I mean, that all goes back towe don't trust each other.
Because we don't trust eachother, we can't get along with
each other.
I guess, what could we do, orwhat can we begin to start
thinking that would allow us tobegin this process of I love you
because you're God's child.
Now I got to start trusting you, but I don't know how.

(34:14):
And then we'll go to the micro,like families.

Speaker 1 (34:18):
I mean there's, there's a whole lot there.
I think, for instance, the onlyway I've seen trust or the only
way I've seen racism go down ina space is when people know
people.
Yes, when an individual builds arelationship with an individual
, they start.
You see that happen with somany people.

(34:42):
And Lyndon B Johnson meetssomeone, an african, becomes
actually friends.
You know, and really martinluther king had a lot to do with
that too.
But but if you think of and theother way you malcolm x, when
he became had, it's it's likewhen we we start to lose racism
when we have a friend.
That's that's one thing.
So we have to buildrelationships, which is a lot of
your work and scott's work andare so.

(35:02):
We have to build relationships,which is a lot of your work and
Scott's work, and we have tobuild relationships with people
that are different than us.
Sad statistic from the trustoutlook is this 70 or 75% of
people believe diversity isimportant for there to be a high
performing team.
Okay, and that makes sense.

(35:23):
75% of people believe thatthere needs to be a
high-performing team.
Okay, and that makes sense.
75% of people believe thatthere needs to be diversity on
teams for it to behigh-performing, and 7 out of 10
people want to be on teams withpeople just like themselves.
That's a big problem?
Yeah, it is.
We don't even want to be onhigh-performing teams then.
Right, yeah, so it takes workto be with people that are.

(35:46):
You know, we're in echo chambers, you know.
Now, I mean it's just there's alot of things we can do, but
one is we have to get, we haveto be motivated by love beyond
ourselves.
We have to take the risk ofrelationship no-transcript a

(36:31):
black person and, uh, somebodyelse from another race that was
his best friend, like we knew.
Like him, saying that story ofwho was with him, who he was
friends with, was reallyimportant to my.
What made me later, right, tellstories of stories of truth, of
the positive, because if wejust hear stories of, yeah, I
had that time when I was mugged,oh, what color was that?
Like you know what I mean.
So, but the macro of that alittle bit is, as you know,

(36:59):
there weren't the good old daysfor everybody, yes, but there
also were things.
There are different thingstoday, with technology speeding
things up, deep fakes, um, theincentivization in government to
divide, I mean that's newthings.
So if you look back at thehistory of trust, I sometimes do
a very brief one, and that is along, long time ago.

(37:21):
I didn't trust you for tworeasons.
One, I didn't know you.
You're different color.
You are a different mountain,you speak a different language,
so I don't trust you.
Or number two, I do know youand I've seen how you act, so I
don't know.
Then we go forward and this iswhere we get to our country in
the last hundred years andthat's institutional trust.
And institutional trust wasgood in that it slowed it down,
it made, made it deeper andstronger, and you could have a

(37:43):
bad politician but not losetrust in the government.
You could have a bad teacher,not lose trust in education.
And then, about 40 years ago,institutional trust tanked in
America, almost, believe it ornot, across races that were
surveyed.
80% of Americans before thattime trusted our government to
do basically what was right.

(38:03):
Now it's like 7%.
Maybe it's crazy, yet the mediais the only thing at worst.
If you think back, we had thenews, not anymore.
Where do you get your news?
You get your news, you get yournews and we don't hear truth.
Nobody's hearing the truth.
They're hearing an amplifiedperspective in most cases,

(38:24):
education.
All the institutional trustchange.
And then we had distributedtrust.
You had Uber and blockchain andall this, and what's important
for this audience today is inthe study just about a year and
a half ago, trust came back tobeing as personal as ever and
there's a place forinstitutional, there's a place
for distributed by, like Lyftand Uber.
There's a place for other.

(38:46):
But we're coming back topersonal because deep fakes and
manipulated Google reviews andall these things that we want to
see and smell and touch andknow you, and so I think this is
trust will be built again onrelationships and we need to get
as real and close as we can.
This is why in-person is back.

(39:07):
We want in-person events.
We want in-person because wecan build trust there.
So, on one side, I'd say that.
On another side, I would sayit's worth noticing the positive
, which many people see, thenegative today, and it's
magnificently negative.
I mean, dc is magnificentlytragic.
I can tell you so much aroundwhy trust is being lost and hurt

(39:30):
and affected out there,compared to not too many years
ago, in some ways at least.
But I was going to saysomething about coming back to
creating as much personal as wecan.
I can't even remember itbecause I started thinking about
government.
So, by the way, a hundred yearsago, you know, the Senator, a

(39:54):
Republican and Democrat fromCalifornia, would duke it out on
the floor and then they wouldget on the train and three
nights they would share meals,talk, be with family.
They don't ever talk.
I was just talking to arepresentative yesterday and he
said we don't.
After orientation, the freshmansenators and representatives

(40:16):
come in and at the end of thebreakfast they say okay, now
Republicans get on the red busand go back to the red hotel,
democrats get on the blue bus,go back to your hotel.
They don't ever even see eachother as human, connect, work
together.
There's so many incentivesagainst working together today.
Both sides pull committeeassignments, discipline people

(40:40):
when they try to cross the aisleand work together.
It's a tragedy and it's exactlywhat we don't need.
We say in our work the biggerthe problem, the more connection
and collaboration you need, andthat is the opposite of what
we're getting in our governmenttoday in the US.
So I don't know.
Maybe I'll come back to somesmart thing I maybe was going to
say, but probably wasn't.

Speaker 2 (41:02):
When I think about us and I think about all the
information that we're impactedwith.
I mean, even when I was in the90s and I started being a
professor and I was a computerteacher, I began to talk about
this thing that was comingcalled the internet.
And then the internet came andnow it just continues to bombard
us and bombard us.
And it's like what can we trust, because there's so much?
And now it just continues tobombard us and bombard us.

(41:23):
And it's like what can we trustBecause there's so much?
And now, with all thealgorithms and everything else
that say hey, I saw you watchthis, so I'm only going to feed
you what you like so far, andnow we don't get this, how do we
show up saying I need to trustsomething and I know it's
relationships.

Speaker 1 (41:43):
But then, even on that, I mean, I'll give you some
simple things really quick.
Number one you got to get ridof you got to go to incognito
when you look at news and you'vegot to intentionally look for
both sides, or a multitude ofsides from most trusted sources
that you can.
But you got to make sure andread both sides and you got to
do it in incognito, so it's notum watching you watching because

(42:06):
otherwise, every algorithm isset for selfishness, and that
means for facebook.
Okay, it is set to make moneyfor themselves.
So how can I keep my eyeballson you the most, on the most,
whatever thing that you watch?
And that's same with instagramand the same with you, know all
these?

Speaker 2 (42:23):
they just want eyeballs.

Speaker 1 (42:25):
So, um, you know there's a load more we could say
about that, but you've got toknow that you're being played
every time you're on socialmedia and you have to be
incredibly intentional to not bedeceived.

Speaker 2 (42:37):
Wow so yeah, so I mean that's so, and then you go.
Okay, so now I, I walk into my,you know local church, or I
walk into and I go, well, whatdo?
What do I trust?
Because as soon as I go and I,you know, I mean I think my
phones listen to you all thetime too, right.
So you're in church, you hearthis, and so as you leave, you
get a message that says that'snot right, that's not, that's

(42:58):
wrong, you're thinking wrong,you're thinking wrong, you're
thinking bad.
And then we get thisentertainment thing, which is
you know, I'm trying to beeducated, I'm trying to learn,
uh, but I'm getting distractedby all the things that I'm
trying to be entertained by bythe way, this was talked about
in scripture ages ago.

Speaker 1 (43:14):
We will be squelched by life's worries and riches and
pleasures.
In America, that verse is to uswe are more rich than we've
ever been.
We're more rich than we've everbeen.
We're more worried than we'veever been, and we seek pleasure
more than we ever have.
I can tell you I sit on theplane today and it used to be
just 10 or 20 years ago 25% ofthe people reading a book.
Now it's 90% playing CandyCrush.

(43:37):
They can't sit for two secondsand put some good input in.
Yeah, it's entertaining, andpeople that aren't entertained
all the time they're gettingcrazy, like they're like.
Oh, I got to look at my phone.
Take someone else.
A couple interesting books Ijust read two weeks ago.

(43:57):
One of them was the RuthlessElimination of Hurry by Comer,
which is great, and number two,much different.
You got to get over theEffenheimer coming through it.
But is the Comfort Crisis?
Comfort Crisis?
Okay, and they're totallydifferent, but they both have

(44:18):
truth and so, anyway, I listenedto both of them and I was stuck
in airports and stuff, so Ididn't.
Now I have the hard copy ofComer's book, but anyway, yeah,
that's a oh my gosh, you thinkof all the you know so much
entertainment.

Speaker 2 (44:36):
how much of our lives ?
Because I think aboutrelationships and I think about
improve myself and I think aboutliving in purpose, and I think
about all the things that youdid up until you you, you
started doing it.
I guess how much of your timewas was made on just improving
yourself.
And how much time should we bespending of our lives making me

(44:57):
better, making me become theperson that I need to be in
order to do what God put me onthis planet to do?
Because I think we have this soskewed and we all have the same
24 hours a day, and yet somepeople thrive and some people
don't, and I don't think peopleare working on themselves.

Speaker 1 (45:15):
Yeah, they're not.
That's the biggest job.
The biggest job is working onyourself, and this is a massive
problem today, because you canbe a YouTube sensation and your
character isn't grown to theextent that you can handle it.
So what happens is we say thisall the time.
It's my own quote, but it isorganizations don't change,
individuals do.
Okay, an organization neverchanges unless an individual

(45:37):
does, but when an individualdoes, then a team can, a country
can a company, you know.
So it's got to be.
You've got to focus on self.
We've heard this so many timesin our work.
This is why we start personal,even though we have processes
for organizational built ontrust, hiring and all these
other things, but processes fororganizational built on trust,
hiring and all these otherthings.
But the Admiral of the Navysaid this didn't work here until
I started using it myself.

(45:58):
The Dean at Penn StateUniversity said this didn't work
here until I started using itmyself.
So we have to start withourselves.
By the way way, this is soprevalent, okay, do you remember

(46:19):
?
I loved um keller, the the uhpastor out in new york, and he
said the the problem and it wasright.
After a different pastor, um,there's a couple big falling
outs.
One was willow creek that pastorand the other was, um, uh, up
at mars hill, okay, and and theMars Hill pastor, like he had
never been to a pastorconference until he was speaking

(46:41):
at one at 20 something he hadnever.
He grew from like a hundredpeople to 15,000 people in like
three years, some very shorttimeframe.
Yeah, his character wasn'tbuilt over time to be able to
handle the success or the impactRight, and it all fell down and
he didn't work on himself, heworked on.

(47:02):
He was a great speaker, he wasreally engaging and all this uh
uh, briscoe or whatever, but um,not.
Oh, gotta get the name right.
Anyway whereas Keller, you knowhe said it was good for me that
my church grew over 40 yearsbecause I had to build my
character along with the impactof the church.

(47:23):
And he was slow and steady andyou listen to his words.
He wasn't so flamboyant but manwas it truth.
Every time he was in the word,he was studying, he was fresh
and relevant.
I think of two people that Ilooked up to a lot, both in
their 80s, and they both arereally well-known leadership

(47:45):
experts and I've been on stagewith both of them and I thought
this one would be reallyinteresting to me.
I've read his books and knownhim and then I met him in the
green room and I thought I neverneed to be around him again.
He hasn't gotten better foryears.
He wasn't fresh, he wasn'trelevant, he was egotistical, he

(48:09):
was a lot of things that hespoke against in his books.
The other one was named kenblanchard and ken was vibrant
and humble and selfless and wasfresh every time, even until now
he's health issues, but veryrecently and I thought that's
who, if I'm still called tospeak, you need to be that and

(48:31):
that takes work and that takeswork even at 81, 82.
You know, scripture says atleast five times God opposes the
proud, but gives grace to thehumble.
I'll tell you something rightnow, our country is being
opposed, absolutely.
Organizations are being opposed.

(48:52):
Their YouTubers are beingopposed.
They're YouTubers are beingopposed.
There's so much ego andself-focus, and and and the God
opposes the proud.
So we're being opposed by God.
Wow, and humility is, you know,is the only way, and humility
is magnetic, is the only way,and humility is magnetic.

(49:13):
So that guy I think of KenBlanchard, who sold more books
of his kind and he's as humbleas they come.
It's just amazing.

Speaker 2 (49:24):
Like what a guy oh my gosh, you just kind of talked
about.
Our culture is so fast.
We want something right now.
We want something microwave,and if we can't become the
person who can do what we'resupposed to be doing, there's a
a gap.
There is a huge gap in whatthat, that identity is, that the
person.
And then when I see that, Ithink about people, that we have
to be around, because I thinkpart of our personal development
has to be seeking out mentors,has to be seeking out people,

(49:48):
and we don't do.
We think we can just watch acouple of youtubes and then we
got it down, or we can you know,this is where mentors are
important.

Speaker 1 (50:01):
Had they been critical for me all the way
along, I still have them, people, and I'm in the speaker hall of
fame with zig ziglar andwhatever.
I just, this week, sent my lastcouple speeches off to two
mentors much older than me andsaid can you give me some
critique, like I, I want to get?
How do I get better?
More importantly than that,though, and one of the questions
you'd asked ahead of time, andI just got to make sure I hit on
it, because it's been the mostcritical at least one of the

(50:23):
very most critical parts of whoI am of healthy success,
whatever you want to callsuccess and that is my
accountability group want tocall success, and that is my
accountability group.
31 years we've met together, andyou know, scott, but I mean
these guys.
They love each other, we loveeach other.

(50:44):
We'll have each other's backfor anything, and we love each
other so much We'll get in eachother's grill and we will talk
about the issues.
And we will talk about how canwe be better fathers, better
parents, better husbands.
You can't talk about anybodyelse, can't talk about what your
wife could do better, can'ttalk about it.
You can only talk about and andensure what you can do better.
And that group of four guys, um, that's been huge and and
pretty uncommon, I've heard ohyeah, I don't.

Speaker 2 (51:06):
I I wish I had.
You know, I think about everytime scott says he's meeting
with you guys, I'm like I wantto go.
I mean, it's just because Idon't.
I don't have a group of menthat you know I'm trying to
develop that and create that anduh, but yeah, that wasn't
something that you know, thatwas even thought about.
I, you know, it seems like thefriends that you know I went to

(51:27):
college with that and maybebecause I just didn't know, or
the relationships whenever weget together, all we want to do
is talk about the past and I'mlike I just didn't know.
Or the relationships wheneverwe get together, all we want to
do is talk about the past andI'm like I, that happened 30
years ago.
I, there's nothing that I.
It was fun, you know, but it'skind of they're stuck in this
time warp and I think a lot ofit is because I'm developing as
a person.
I spend every day working on me,making sure I grow, and I don't

(51:50):
know if they are.
I don't know if they arethey're being entertained, but
if they are they're beingentertained, but they're not
growing.

Speaker 1 (51:54):
Oh, remember, we won that JV championship.

Speaker 2 (51:59):
Exactly Like, okay, great, I mean, it's wonderful,
and they want to be on faith andthey want to text and they pray
for me for this, which I wantto do.
But how do you I mean, you guyshad 31 years, but there's some
new groups or new mentorships ornew circles that you're
probably part of how do youevaluate and say, OK, this is a
great group for me.
Is it just through prayer?

(52:20):
I mean what?
How do you know that you'removing in the right direction?
Because sometimes it can be bad.

Speaker 1 (52:26):
It's true that it can be.
I've been a part of good andbad and bad.
It's been worth it more to takethe risk and jump in and quit
than it is to not.
So I was in a group thatchanged my world and not
faith-wise they're third.
Like I was very uniquelyfortunate to get asked to be a

(52:46):
part of this group.
I mean, the best athlete thatever was is known for being in
that group.
Dave Winfield was the onlyperson drafted in all three
sports baseball, basketball,football.
Right, it's a movie producer, apro.
He was the other guy.
That was the reason I did stufffor the Yankees.
I was invited to be that groupbut it was expensive and I

(53:08):
thought I don't have pennies forthis.
But it was a part of this groupof 30.
And that group I will tell youthat the next year was the first
year I did seven figuresbecause of that.
You talk about being who you'rearound, and that was a decade or
whatever ago.
So there's a different groupthat I'm a part of now that
isn't paid, other than theaccountability group I had.

(53:28):
We just met each other at anevent.
We all are running learning anddevelopment businesses and
speak a bunch and we just kindof connected and it was at that
event we started talking and nowwe've been together, I'd say at
least a decade, and we meettwice a year and we do quarterly
calls and I am way betterbecause of them.
We sharpen each other inseveral different ways.

(53:49):
So, first of all, those kind ofgroups we share leads.
Someone said, oh, you aren'tspeaking, can you speak next
year at this?
And then they got four peoplethat are you know.
It's just amplified our growthand speed to success in certain
ways.
So, ideas what are you usingfor a CRM?
No, I changed from that to this.
What about your LMS?

(54:10):
What about your you're doingpodcasts this way or doing them
that, and this one's reallybelieves in podcasts.
I'm like I just canceled minebecause I was too busy and
flying out, didn't want tocancel, you know it's like, but
different perspectives.
So, um, those kind of groupsare super valuable and I've been
a part of several what we callMastermind groups that are free,
that we just came together andwe were kind of a equal, equals

(54:32):
in ways, but different, and westarted meeting.
I've been a part of three paidtypes.
One was that really expensiveone that was worth it.
One was what many would callexpensive and really high ego
guy.
Wasn't worth it for the guy.
But even in that one I met twopeople We'd only met three times
.
That changed everything for me,so it was worth that I did it.

(54:54):
And then a different one wasmeet monthly here in minnesota
and, um, that, that one I got infree because I spoke to them.
It's supposed to be 14 grand orsomething, and so I, I, I, uh,
I did it for the year and, um,you know so, but, but I tried it
and I learned and I got to knowsome people, but there's a
couple that were really massivethe, the national one, so it is

(55:18):
who you're around.
But you gotta not just bearound, you gotta balance.
For me, I've gotta balance thebusiness success type with the
faith and family type, andsometimes you can put both of
those together and some of those.
You'll be surprised that we'reall of us are talking about
faith and family more than wewere about business.

Speaker 2 (55:37):
Oh, I love it.
I got one question more for youand then I'm going to let you
kind of fill in what we haven'ttalked about.
Sometimes I talk to people.
We know that kids need moms anddads and they need parents and
they need guidance.
But the other part that we kindof flip it around, that we
don't always think about, iswhat does it mean to be a dad?

(55:59):
What does it mean to be able totake that and say I'm a dad,
and how has that changed yourlife in the way that you operate
, just because you're a dad?
Not because the kids need you,but because you get to be a dad?

Speaker 1 (56:13):
Yeah, and now mine are old, getting older, like
I've got one working 20 feetfrom me through that glass door
here at the Institute.
So yeah.
I've got four kids 22, 20, 18,16.
One will be graduating herefrom high school in about a
month and I'll tell you they'reall different and they're
amazing.

(56:34):
I've learned a lot and grown alot and have more growing to do,
but I think I'm super driven,naturally, and I would have been
more.
There's so many things I'velearned, but we had a really fun

(56:54):
little conversation Easterweekend with all four of them
about.
It's fun now because we canopenly talk about.
Like you know, they asked likeone of them asked like why did
we exactly move back in 19,?
You know, whatever she didn'treally we didn't know.
She was so frustrated that wemoved and moved schools and that

(57:15):
really hurt her, you know.
So it was good Like we have areally open, positive
relationship.
But anyway, we're learning allthe time.
I'm still trying to, like youknow, I have great relationships
with them and I'm learning.
There's times when, by the way,that when I didn't, when I
pushed them away from like bybeing driven or asking them, you

(57:37):
know, too much being too muchaccountability, dad, instead of
just love.
Listen to what you're goingthrough, dad.
So you know there's a lot thereand Lisa and I, you know,
prioritize our marriage, which Ithink is an important example
for them.
I think I often say to familiesthe most important thing is not
your love of your kids, it'syour love of your wife for dads,

(57:59):
for parents, because they needto see that Both your boys do
and your girls do.
But I've messed up in thatfocus and I've been out of
balance on things and we'refortunate now because I'm able
to have more margin in thebusiness and life now.

Speaker 2 (58:15):
That's awesome.
Thank you for that.
What did what?
I was selfish because I askedyou all the cool questions that
I wanted to know what.
What would you love to sharewith everybody that did they?
You know one closing point oryou know trust matters.
I can't wait to have you putthat book in my hands and start
reading it.

Speaker 1 (58:40):
I mean I think it's worth shifting your thinking
about trust.
I mean there's people that justdon't understand.
No, trust is transparency.
No, it's not.
It's also confidentiality.
It's like it's more complexthan we might think and yet it's
more critical than we mightknow.
It matters more than ever.
Trust is actually the only thingthat really works in certain
spaces and it is the the mosthelpful thing.
We believe.
The most helpful thing we cando for a family organization, a

(59:00):
person, is increased trust.
Because we increase trust ortrustworthiness.
That is the leading indicatorof real success.
I mean, attrition goes downwhen trust goes up.
Costs go down, trust goes upLike.
So I think Trust Edge dot com orDavid Horse Tiger dot com they
can go see when trust goes up.
So I think TrustEdgecom orDavidHorseigercom they can go
see the books and differentthings at all, either of those.
But there's free tools.

(59:20):
There's a couple of hundredvideos online I think you can
watch.
But I would look at the casefor trust.
I would look at that eightpillar framework.
You can really solve againstthat eight pillar framework and
of course, in Trust Matters MoreThan Ever, there's 40 tools you
can flip to like I don't evenwant to read the book.
I just want to learn how toincrease trust in times of
conflict.
Look at the pause model or Ineed to rebuild trust.

(59:41):
I've lost it.
Look at the 10 steps for howyou rebuild trust.
Like it's just there.
The tools are there to just usein those books, but probably
you can get anywhere fromtrustedgecom or davidhorsigercom
and I think those are some ofthe.
There's plenty of freeresources for people who don't
want things.
Of course, if people want toget certified, we want to
welcome people like you into thefold, because no one can do it

(01:00:02):
better in context than people intheir context.
But we give them some toolsthey can certainly use to
increase trust.
And yeah, maybe the last quotewould be under the consistency
pillar.
We say all the time is it's thelittle things done consistently
that make the biggestdifference, not the big things,
and that's true of trust.
The only way to build areputation is consistency, good

(01:00:22):
or bad.
If you're late, consistently, Iwill trust you, but to be late
right.
The only way to build a brand isconsistency.
So really think about when youget that big new idea, but what
will I do consistently?
Boy, I want to go work outGreat, but what would you do

(01:00:43):
consistently?

Speaker 2 (01:00:43):
Because a consistent short workout is better than one
big workout.
So so, so good.
Thank you for sharing that.
Is there a personal event thatis in the that is something that
folks can attend?
Or, you know, I wish we weredoing the leader summits again.

Speaker 1 (01:00:58):
We might bring those back sometime, but I've got
loads of focus with my I'm asenior fellow at a university,
I've got the the Institute we'rerunning, we've got I'm I'm
advising and on some more boardsthan I've been.
So our focus there.
So we're actually taking alittle pause in that.
It's hard.
We keep getting people keepasking about it.
I don't know if you know this,but we lost a few hundred

(01:01:20):
thousand dollars on that everytime we put it on.
But we it was missional for usand our relationship with and
all those people you know, likethey, we just want it to be
really nice and really valuableand we want people to feel
really loved at that.
So we had to rethink about it.
But we will probably do thatagain and, of course, if people
are in the certified community,then there's some event stuff
there will be coming up.

(01:01:40):
But I'm speaking all over sopeople can find the schedule.
They can look for that.

Speaker 2 (01:01:47):
Oh absolutely, if you get the opportunity to be
anywhere that he's at.
I can promise you that this manhas changed my life in ways
that he probably doesn't evenknow, and you know to think that
there's somebody out there thatis talking about something
that's so vitally important inour life, so incredibly
necessary to be able tounderstand, and when he talks

(01:02:08):
about there's eight pillars,there is truly eight pillars
that you have to think about,and sometimes we just think,
well, I trust you or I don'ttrust you, but there's so much
more, and so I encourage you.
You said there's a few hundredvideos.
I tell you, we both talkedabout working on yourself and
making sure that you are abetter person, and if you get
the opportunity to becomecertified and go through a

(01:02:29):
program, you will be a betterperson for it.
And so, david, thank you forbeing on the show today, thank
you for spending the time andtaking the time.
It's so.
It just it just warms my heartso much that I get the
opportunity to, to, to spendwith you, and you know, take
this time and now share you withthe folks that that I know and
the folks that are are part ofmy life.

(01:02:50):
And so, as we try to do this hitthe notification, the subscribe
and all the YouTube stuff thatwe do, but make sure you don't
just watch this stuff.
Interact with it.
Contact You'll look at thelinks, we'll put links in for
you to be able to access and so,again, thank you, don't go away
.
I got an outro that goes in andthen we will be see you on the

(01:03:13):
next one.
Don't forget your God'sgreatest gift he loves you.
If you allow him to, we'll talkto you guys soon.
Talk to you later.