July 12, 2025 • 44 mins
My guest on this episode is my dear friend of over 30 years, Cindy Bell. She is a life coach, realtor, podcaster, and the author of "What the Fifty - a Girl's Guide to Unapologetic Living Over 50." Cindy approaches the topic of aging with honesty and humor - through her wisdom, anecdotes, and personal stories. She's a powerhouse personality and a warm, kind person. So excited to share our conversation with you.
Check out my Amazon affiliate link to BUY HER BOOK - "What the Fifty?"
Follow Cindy on Instagram @what.the.fifty.cindybell
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Laura Wakefield (00:00):
Hi everybody.
Welcome to The Joy fulicityPodcast.
I'm your host, Laura Wakefieldand today I am thrilled to have
my good friend Cindy Bell on theshow with me.
Cindy and I have known eachother for about 30 years.
(00:21):
We went to college together wayback in the day and then we
lost touch for a little whileand reconnected a few years ago
only to discover that our liveshad taken a very similar track.
We're both realtors, we're bothlife coaches, we both have big
families.
We basically lived parallellives for all of those years.
(00:42):
So it's been super fun toreconnect with Cindy.
And she has done what I'vetalked about for years.
And she has published a bookcalled "What the Fifty?" dishing
all things to do with lifeafter 50.
So welcome, Cindy.
It's good to have you.
Cindy Bell (00:59):
Thank you for having me.
I appreciate it.
Laura Wakefield (01:02):
It's wonderful.
So tell me about...
your book?
What made you go from the pointof, Hey, I have a lot to say
to, I think I'm going to write abook about it.
Like, tell me about that.
I don't really know.
I just, I just like, I came upwith the phrase, what the fifty,
(01:22):
um, a few years ago, uh, rightafter I'm 56 now.
So, um, I kind of went throughthis point in my life when I was
about 50, where I went througha huge transition.
I got a divorce, not just adivorce, but my second divorce.
And it was like a huge, hugething for me to kind of accept.
And I'm like, embraced thewhole turning 50 moment as a
(01:45):
huge transitional pivotal timein my life.
And I wanted to call itsomething like it needed, I
needed to kind of label thiswhole experience.
And then in sharing with otherwomen, my age, similar age, um,
I wanted to have like a brandsort of a feel like, and so it
was like, what the 50, so kindof a play on what the f***5 you
(02:07):
know?
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Which is how it feels for mostof us.
When we turn 50, there's thatmoment where we look in the
mirror and we go, how did thishappen?
How did I, how did I get here?
You know.
Cindy Bell (02:19):
That's what I was trying to capture.
Like the whole, what ishappening to me physically,
hormonally, mentally, everythingin my life is changing.
Nothing looks the same, bothfiguratively and literally.
And I kind of wanted to capturethat with What the Fifty, and
the book is just sort of a, acompilation of personal stories.
It's kind of like coachingslash personal humorous moments
(02:45):
slash serious stuff.
I mean, it's just kind of aweird arrangement of my
thoughts.
Laura Wakefield (02:50):
Well, what I love about your book, because
I've read it and I love itbecause I'm also in my 50s, so
it resonated a lot with me.
And I think that it will withmost women in their 50s, men
too, but I think it's primarilywritten
for the female experience of what that feels like to be in your 50's as a woman. You are just so relateable. Like, you do share stories and a lot of humor, because I think we tend to take this all very seriously.
Cindy Bell (03:03):
Yes.
Our bodies are changing. Our lives are changing and it feels very heavy and very serious and you just put a lot of humor into it. That we may as well laugh about this stuff, because it's happening.
Right.
Well, I'm pretty sarcastic, andit's just kind of one of my
(03:31):
defaults.
My love language may besarcasm.
So I just find humor in a lotof things, and I think if you're
not laughing and having fun,what's the point, right?
Laura Wakefield (03:43):
Exactly.
And I think that they call it amidlife crisis, but I don't
like that term, because that hasa negative connotation.
I kind of like midlifediscovery period, but it can be
very traumatic experience.
Yes
You know because you have to rethink
everything you ever thought thatyou knew and often there are
(04:04):
divorces and things like thatthat are happening at this age
that's not uncommon so...
Yes we find ourselves in aposition where we're kind of
having to redefine andre-navigate what life looks like
because like you said divorceit's you know unfortunately it's
pretty common and um we're kindof in the middle like we're
suddenly empty nesting.
(04:26):
You're not quite there yet, butyou're getting there.
You have nine, so it's takingyou a little bit longer.
I'm a little behind the curve on that one,
but yeah, it'll happen though.
It will.
Yeah.
So we're empty nesting.
Our parents are aging.
Our parents are dying, youknow, and suddenly we're left
single or divorced or, you know,in new relationships.
And so everything looksdifferent and we have to figure
(04:46):
out how do we do life now?
As women, we know so much more.
We have so much experience andknowledge, things that we've
learned along the way, buteverything's different.
How do we move through this?
I like what you said.
It's more of a discovery, not acrisis, although it can be a
crisis.
It's going to be as traumatic as what our
(05:07):
mindset is about it.
That's why I love books likeyours because it starts to
challenge whether or not thatmindset needs to be negative or
not.
Cindy Bell (05:15):
Right.
Laura Wakefield (05:15):
You Know, because everything in society
tells us that this is a horriblething.
You know, we're getting old andgetting old is not good.
You know, we don't look 20anymore.
We, you know, and we'resupposed to somehow be ashamed
of that and try to, you know,fight that.
And it's happening.
Whether we fight it or not,it's happening.
Cindy Bell (05:35):
Yeah, we have not been given permission by
society, not that we need it,but to age gracefully.
Men have permission to do so,but we don't.
We're expected to color ourhair.
We're expected to fight aging,fight our wrinkles, and stay in
shape and stay thin.
And I'm all for all of that.
I fight aging.
(05:56):
I will continue to fight it asmuch as I can.
However, sometimes I just wantto breathe.
I just want to be like, screwthis.
I'm 56 years old.
I can't look 35.
I just, I can't, and I'm notgoing to.
I'll do the best I can for aslong as I can.
But if we put, let's say likethe medical field, if they put
(06:20):
as much energy toward figuringout menopause and how to help
women through menopause as theydid making Viagra
for men, we would have made a lot of strides.
We're getting there.
Laura Wakefield (06:33):
Oh, and I think that it's about, like you said,
I mean, I'm about trying tolook the best that I can at
whatever age that I'm at.
What I don't want anymore,though, is to feel the shame
because on my best day, I'm notgoing to look 20 anymore.
I can look awesome for 54, butI'm 54 and I'm never going to
(06:57):
look 20 and that's okay.
You know, that's all right.
And that's where I want to getwithin my own self.
But I'd like to see society getthere, because I know there's
so many women our age that arejust suffering.
Cindy Bell (07:09):
Yes.
Laura Wakefield (07:09):
All these things to do with aging.
And it's going to happenwhether we suffer or whether we
find the humor in it.
It's not about whether coloryour hair or don't.
You know, that's a personalchoice for people to make.
But let's not be ashamed whenwe look in the mirror and don't
look 25 as if somehow our worthand our value as a woman is
(07:31):
diminished.
Cindy Bell (07:32):
Exactly.
Laura Wakefield (07:34):
We're powerful.
In fact, a lot of people aretalking now, and I love your
take on this, that people ourage in their 50s now are aging
differently.
What do you think about thatwhen you hear that?
Because I think it's true.
Cindy Bell (07:47):
I think it's true.
Yeah.
Because when we were kids, Iwould think of a woman in her
fifties.
The, the image that came to meback then was short gray hair.
Laura Wakefield (08:00):
Always
Cindy Bell (08:01):
Retired.
And, you know, they reading thenewspaper every morning,
drinking her coffee there.
It's just like sort of a, weare aging differently.
I mean, we are taking our powerback.
We are taking control ofourselves and how we age.
And I think that, That's areally, really good thing.
But maybe we've also createdthese false expectations for
(08:25):
ourselves to look a certain way.
I mean, look, you've had ninechildren.
I've had five children.
The body just does certainthings after it's out there.
Laura Wakefield (08:35):
It will never be the same.
Cindy Bell (08:37):
I mean, and why are we trying to, not that we get
sloppy or complacent, but whyare we trying to look like we
have not birthed multiple humanbeings?
Because no matter how hard youtry, you can't fully fight that.
No.
It's just, it's never going tolook the same again entirely as
(08:59):
it once did.
And I think that's okay.
It's really okay.
You know, I think what it'sabout is having that personal
power to choose to look how wewant to and how we do and to
love our body where it's at,right?
Even if we're trying to makepositive changes, like right
now, I would love to loseanother 20 to 30 pounds, right?
(09:20):
And that's all right to want todo that.
But I need to love myself nowwhile I'm in the process of
that.
Yes.
I will love myself when I'm 30pounds thinner and look 25
again.
No, now, right now.
Right.
And it's our job to teachsociety, to teach others how to
(09:43):
treat us.
I mean, I scroll throughInstagram or TikTok and older
women, we have a big platform onsocial media.
Like we take up a lot of space.
Like it's a big thing.
Women over 50, it's a bigdemographic on social media.
But there are so many men,trolls on there, who are saying,
oh my God, you look terrible.
(10:05):
Put a paper bag on your head orcolor your hair, or you need to
lose some weight.
All these comments and it'sconstant.
It's our job to redefine thenarrative and to shift the
narrative and to allow others tosee us differently, because we
have to come forth as beingpowerful.
We have to love ourselves sodamn much that everyone else
(10:25):
looks at us and goes, yeah.
Laura Wakefield (10:28):
Well, that's why I think it's so important.
People like you who are writingbooks about this and running
your Facebook page, that sort ofthing, because there's so many
sources, like you said, trolls,but but other sources, too, that
are telling us that we don'thave as much value anymore.
And it's so important to havewomen out there speaking out and
(10:50):
reminding each other.
Yes, you do.
Yeah, we are powerful.
We are.
We're powerful because webecause we're not 20.
And that's the important part.
I wouldn't want to go back to20.
I didn't know anything when Iwas 20.
I did everything.
I mean, I didn't know anything.
I had no life experience.
And so all of the things thatwe've been through that some of
(11:13):
them are difficult, some of themare wonderful, but they all
have shaped us and informed us.
And that's why we're powerful.
Cindy Bell (11:21):
Yes, exactly.
Laura Wakefield (11:22):
You know, so these wrinkles mean something to
me.
Cindy Bell (11:26):
Yeah, they do.
Definitely.
Yes.
Laura Wakefield (11:29):
So tell me about the core four.
Cindy Bell (11:33):
So the core four, basically there's four pillars
and there's more than that.
If you can actually have subpillars within these four
pillars, but it's your physical,your spiritual, relational, and
financial.
So these four areas in mycoaching program, I don't know
what you do in yours, but in mypersonal coaching program, I
(11:53):
coach people on these fourareas.
Like, how's your physical?
How's your relational?
How's your spiritual?
How's your financial?
And like I said, there could besub pillars, but those are the
basic four that we concentrateon.
And setting goals for yourselfwithin each one, you know,
taking a hard look, a hardinventory of where you are and
(12:16):
where you want to be.
And then breaking it downwithin each of those four areas.
Laura Wakefield (12:23):
Well, I have found too, when one is a little
off kilter, often it's throwingthe others off kilter too.
So if you can regain somestrength in one area to where
you feel powerful again, it willspill over into the other areas
too.
Do you find that with yourclients?
Cindy Bell (12:38):
So true.
And for most of them, actually,it's the physical that if they
feel good about themselves, youknow, they're taking care of
their health, they're feelinggood, then that spills into most
of the other areas.
That's not for all of them, butfor most of them.
And for myself.
Laura Wakefield (12:55):
And whatever that looks like for them, you
know, but that they feel, Ithink for me right now, the
reason that I'm kind of reallytackling this last little bit of
weight loss, it's not really somuch for appearance.
I mean, it is because, youknow, I'm going to be on camera,
all of that sort of thing.
But it's more than that.
It's more...
That I feel like that's onearea where I don't have...
(13:17):
I'm not at my best.
And it's very empowering to meto think of taking control of
that again and getting it back.
Because I think that that senseof empowerment is where your
confidence comes in all otherareas of your life.
Cindy Bell (13:34):
Yes, for sure.
Laura Wakefield (13:35):
How do you teach people to...
Where do you tell people tostart if they're feeling out of
control everywhere?
Cindy Bell (13:39):
Well, I have them take a hard look at...
we determine their currentreality.
So they have to get super clearand very, very real.
You know, a lot of people justwant to pretend and frankly lie
about their current situationbecause it's too hard to look at
(14:00):
otherwise.
But let's, let's be clear whenyou're in your fifties, you, you
better get your shit together.
You know, you better know whatyou want.
But more importantly, knowwhere you are right now, because
you can't get to where you wantto go without really getting
super clear on where you are.
Laura Wakefield (14:16):
Yeah.
Cindy Bell (14:17):
So taking a fierce inventory of where you are in
every single area of your lifeand then saying, okay, it's
okay.
It's okay if you feel like youneed to lose 80 pounds.
That's okay.
How are we going to tacklethis?
How can we get from here towhere you want to be and then
take actionable steps to make ithappen?
So it's all about getting veryraw.
(14:37):
and very real with yourself andsay, okay, here it is.
No
Laura Wakefield (14:43):
Which is hard.
I mean, that's painfulsometimes.
Cindy Bell (14:45):
It is.
Laura Wakefield (14:45):
And running away from a reality, you know,
maybe not saving what you shouldfor retirement, for instance,
and trying to just stay indenial about the fact that we're
now in our mid-50s and we don'thave that much time.
Yes.
To really confront that canactually be a little terrifying
at first.
It can be kind of veryupsetting.
But it's
Cindy Bell (15:05):
Yeah.
So for a woman in her fifties,she finds herself suddenly in a
financial situation that she'slike, how am I going to get out
of this?
I need some money.
It's very important to look atthat and go, okay, let's, let's
figure it out.
There's a way out of this.
Let's take some steps to makeit happen.
And it's not sexy.
This is not sexy stuff.
Like this is hardcoreaccountability and action and,
(15:31):
Because like you said, we don'thave, not that we're in our
deathbeds, but we don't havethat much left, that much time.
Laura Wakefield (15:37):
We don't have as much time as we used to, you
know, for sure.
Well, and that's where I thinkyou as a coach come in.
So, you know, have so muchimportance and value is that
accountability.
Because that person left totheir own devices is going to
revert back to their habits.
Cindy Bell (15:54):
Totally.
Laura Wakefield (15:54):
The minute it feels uncomfortable, they're
going to revert back to all ofthe different comfort mechanisms
that they have in place intheir life to hide from that.
That's what they've been doingfor years.
And so to have somebody thatkeeps bringing it back and
saying, okay, wait, wait, wait,come back, come back, look at
this again.
Cindy Bell (16:10):
Yeah, definitely.
Laura Wakefield (16:12):
Super, super important.
I love that.
Okay, so I'm going inhighlights of my favorite parts
of your book.
This chapter was probably myfavorite one.
And maybe because this issomething that I do myself a
lot.
So it was very, it highlightedsome stuff for me.
Stop half-assing your life.
Yeah, that one got to me.
(16:32):
Talk to me about that chapter.
Cindy Bell (16:34):
Yeah, I mean, it got to me too, because I'm
preaching to the choir and somuch of this book is stop
half-assing your life.
I know for me, I found that Ican do most things pretty well.
And I can operate about 75% ofmy capacity and kind of skate,
you know, kind of coast through,but that's half-assing it.
(16:54):
Right?
I mean, you make a decisionwhen you wake up every day, am I
going to be like excellenttoday in as in many areas as I
can, or I'm going to half-assit?
I mean, it's up to you.
If you like half-assing yourlife, go for it.
I mean, I'm not here to shameanybody into, into a certain way
of living, but if, if you'reaware that you're half-assing
(17:15):
your life and you want it tochange, then maybe you just need
to admit, I'm half-assing mylife.
Let's do something different,right?
Laura Wakefield (17:22):
Well, once you admit that to yourself, it's
hard to run away from theaccountability at that point.
Cindy Bell (17:28):
Yeah, absolutely.
Laura Wakefield (17:29):
Because you know it.
And I think that one of thethings that causes me to do
that, sometimes it's laziness.
I mean, that's the truth.
Sometimes I just don't feel it.
But sometimes I'm actuallyafraid of what it would mean if
I gave it my all.
Like, not just that somebodywould reject me, but maybe it
would really go well.
And if it does, then I haveresponsibility for all of the
(17:52):
things that might come fromthat.
And that overwhelms me alittle.
So if I can just stay over herehalf-assing, then I don't have
to deal with all of that.
Cindy Bell (18:00):
Absolutely.
And look at us, you know, we'reboth on this very similar
trajectory and we're doing verycreative things in this time of
our lives.
And it's a blessing, but it'salso kind of a curse because
what if this goes really, reallywell?
It's scary.
Like, what if my podcast startsreaching millions?
(18:20):
Or what if my coaching programstarts making six figures,
multiple six figures?
Like, then what?
What if my social media blowsup completely?
You know, then what?
It's safer, right?
Definitely and more comfortableto stay here.
Laura Wakefield (18:36):
Well, and what will that require of me?
Cindy Bell (18:40):
Right.
Laura Wakefield (18:41):
Like if I put out the best of myself, sure
there's the chance of beingrejected, but I'm almost more
comfortable with that.
Cindy Bell (18:48):
Yes.
Laura Wakefield (18:49):
Weirdly than I am with, but like you said, what
if it blows up and it getshuge?
And what will that look like?
Well, how will my life change?
Cindy Bell (18:56):
Well, you know, the more things blow up and go well,
the more people you connectwith, but that also means the
more criticism you aredefinitely going to get.
And that's hard, right?
So it is safer to not doanything at all or to play
really small.
(19:17):
And I'm kind of stucksometimes, to be totally honest
with you, I'm kind of stucksometimes between this, go get
it, go after it, play big, playhard.
And screw it.
I'm 56.
I don't have to do anything Idon't want to do.
Laura Wakefield (19:32):
Maybe I should start slowing my life down now.
Yes.
I think we flip flop back andforth.
And I think we're also dealingwith the societal things that,
especially in our generation,not so much the younger women,
but women in our generation havekind of been told for a long
time that maybe we should playsmall, that we have certain
roles to play.
And maybe we're out of our laneif we really reach big and try
(19:56):
to, and it's a very ingrainedidea that somehow we're not
being feminine anymore or we'renot being a good wife or mom if
we're really reaching hard forour personal dreams.
And I think a lot of us fightagainst those little inner
demons.
Cindy Bell (20:12):
Oh yeah.
But especially Laura, let's behonest, people like you and me
who we've, we've kind of beentrained, taught and educated
through this religious systemthat we both came through.
And I don't know how much youwant to get into this.
Laura Wakefield (20:25):
We can talk about anything here.
Yeah.
Cindy and I both used to be inthe Mormon church and actually
we met at BYU and we both havesince left the Mormon church,
but that is a huge part of bothof our history.
Cindy Bell (20:35):
Yeah.
Yes.
So we have that common threadand that we were taught.
I mean, even if it was justsort of, what's the word I'm
looking for?
Not directly.
Definitely.
We caught this indirectly, butit was pretty direct that women
are, we have an inferior role.
And so basically our voices donot matter nearly as much as our
(21:00):
male counterparts.
Like, I don't know that I eversaw myself as inferior so much
as that my role was prettydefined and pretty specific, so
to reach outside of that waskind of just, you know, getting
out of my lane.
It was not...
This is where you belong over here.
Laura Wakefield (21:19):
Exactly.
And it was valuable.
I felt like it was valuable andall of that, but it was very
defined.
And so if I had bigger ideasthan that, that somehow I just
wasn't being faithful orcontented.
Cindy Bell (21:33):
Yes.
Laura Wakefield (21:35):
You know, and, and I guess I wasn't fully
contented.
To be totally truthful, thatwasn't enough for me.
And I wanted more, but I stillfight against that thinking that
I need to...
Cindy Bell (21:46):
Yeah, tamp it down, Laura.
Laura, calm down.
Laura Wakefield (21:49):
Be smaller.
Yeah, exactly.
Cindy Bell (21:51):
Don't be too loud.
Laura Wakefield (21:52):
Yeah, don't be too big.
But I have a really bigpersonality and that's been
something that I do thatflip-flopping of, oh, you need
to...
be here and no, I'm going to beover here.
And, and that's a huge internalconflict that I wrestle with
when I'm doing something likestarting a podcast.
How, how, how much am I allowedto be here?
Yeah.
It's like, how loud can I behere?
Cindy Bell (22:13):
Exactly.
Like, do I really belong inthis space of, Oh, right.
These people over here are theones who do podcasts.
Not me.
Laura Wakefield (22:21):
Not me.
I'm just a mom.
Cindy Bell (22:23):
Right.
How silly.
Oh, I was being silly.
Oh yeah.
I mean, but you know, I thinkthat that is really common, like
you said, for women our age tobe constantly doing this one
voice here and one voice here,and we're constantly at battle.
I do see younger women, though,in their 20s, 30s, even 40s,
who don't even have thisconversation going on in their
(22:45):
head.
Laura Wakefield (22:45):
They're released from it entirely.
Cindy Bell (22:47):
Entirely.
Yes.
So I think it's very normal forwomen our age, but I think that
we need to, that all the morereason that we need to keep, we
need to keep speaking.
We need to keep standing up andsaying the things that matter
and that are not to be obnoxiousor anything, but just to say,
Hey, we're here.
We're not going away.
Like on TikTok, we're, we'rehere on TikTok.
Laura Wakefield (23:10):
So get used to it.
We're here.
Cindy Bell (23:11):
And my kids are like...
Laura Wakefield (23:14):
Oh, Cindy has the most hilarious TikTok feeds.
I love your posts on TikTokbecause they're so relatable.
You'll say the stuff that otherpeople are thinking.
What's your, tell everybodywhat your TikTok handle is so
they can find you.
Cindy Bell (23:30):
I think right now, because I try to, because I'm a
realtor as well.
So it's @CindyBell sells.
And so it's like, I reallydon't like that handle.
I'm thinking about changing it,but yeah.
That's a whole nother thing weneed to talk about branding.
Like, who are we?
Are we just one brand?
And then all these differentthings that we do underneath the
brand, because we're realtors,we're coaches, we're podcasters,
(23:52):
we're moms, like we'remultifaceted.
So anyway, you can find me onTikTok @Cindy Bell Sells, but I
love TikTok because it is theplace I can be the most
authentic version of myself.
And it freaks my husband out.
He's like, God...
Laura Wakefield (24:07):
Who are you?
Cindy Bell (24:10):
And I'm like, I just feel free.
Laura Wakefield (24:12):
Yeah, like, I found that too.
So when I was on all the othersocial medias for a long time,
and I resisted TikTok, becauseit felt kind of silly.
Cindy Bell (24:20):
Yes.
Laura Wakefield (24:22):
Because you are silly on there, you just you
act out and you do these crazyvideos and all this kind of
stuff.
I have found TikTok to be themost freeing of all the social
medias.
And I don't know what's aboutto happen with all of that.
I won't get into that about allof that right now.
But But just to learn how to bethat open about that silly side
of myself has been very freeingfor me.
(24:42):
And I really enjoyed that.
And it's spilling over into therest of my social medias and my
life.
And when you were talking aboutbranding, I think for a long
time with branding, I thought Ihad to put myself out there as a
realtor, like put the realestate first or the coaching
first and then hide myself alittle bit back behind those
professional titles and labels.
(25:02):
And I'm starting to mix allthat together now and realize
that my brand is really me.
And that is reallyuncomfortable for me, to be
totally honest.
It's something I'm steppinginto a little bit, but it's
uncomfortable.
And I think that's true ofevery woman, whether she's doing
podcasting or not.
Your personal brand is you andyour authenticity and your
(25:25):
uniqueness and everything thatmakes you you.
And don't be afraid of that.
Cindy Bell (25:30):
Absolutely.
And I have found the moreauthentic I am, as uncomfortable
as that is, I attract thepeople that are really supposed
to be in my life.
Laura Wakefield (25:43):
Yes.
Cindy Bell (25:43):
And, and that's just, you know, I don't want to
be connected to people who don'twant to be connected to me.
So might as well just beourselves, whether it's on
social media or in real lifewith real people face to face,
just be you and let the chipsfall where they may.
And let the people who are notsupposed to be in your life, not
be in your life.
Laura Wakefield (26:03):
And that it's actually a blessing that they
exited.
Cindy Bell (26:06):
Yes.
Laura Wakefield (26:07):
You know, and that's hard to come to until
you're kind of reallycomfortable with who you are.
Cindy Bell (26:14):
Oh my gosh.
I can't tell you.
I don't know if you can relateto this, but I'm thinking about
all the toxic relationships thatI've had throughout my life.
Laura Wakefield (26:23):
Yeah.
Cindy Bell (26:23):
Even just friendships, casual friendships
that were toxic because thosepeople were not my people.
Yet I was trying to make thosepeople, my people.
I'm like, I don't have, I don'thave time for that anymore.
I only have time for realauthentic relationships.
Laura Wakefield (26:39):
Yeah.
Because what you get, whatI've, it took me till my fifties
to learn this.
I didn't know this in mytwenties that if you curate
yourself to please someone elseand are not showing up as you,
all you're going to have at theend of that i s a relationship
where you have to be somethingyou're not, and you're never
going to be comfortable there.
You're never going to be happythere.
Cindy Bell (26:56):
No. That was, you know, one thing, my upbringing
in the Mormon church really kindof defined me in this space
that I was taught in nouncertain terms that it was my
responsibility to show up as thewoman that a man might need.
to be his eternal companion, tobe his faithful.
(27:19):
So I kind of, you know, didthese gymnastics of turning
myself inside out to be thatperfect woman that a man would
want to marry.
And it's like, I totally lostwho I was.
And it really wasn't until my50s, early 50s, where I said,
who am I?
What do I believe?
What do I stand for?
(27:39):
What are my opinions?
And it turned out that Iactually did not have any of the
same opinions as my ex-husbandat all.
I actually had my own personalthoughts and opinions.
And that was like, whoa.
Laura Wakefield (27:52):
And then you're like, well, now I kind of know
why that didn't work.
How could it ever have workedwhen...
we weren't showing up asourselves.
And I think that idea thatthere's a set way to be so that
you are lovable so that peoplewill want you is really false.
There's billions of people onthis planet.
Cindy Bell (28:12):
Yes.
Laura Wakefield (28:13):
So you only need one really in terms of, of
a romantic relationship and youdon't need that many friends
even.
And you know, you don't need amassive tribe.
So be you.
There are plenty of people outthere that will want you.
And like you said, for you andthen you'll just live a more
comfortable life you know I meanthat's that's something I'm
(28:34):
learning but that's a hard oneto learn.
Being rejected still feelsuncomfortable for me because,
because it's not so much thatI'm sad about those people
exiting as I still attributesomething's wrong with me if
somebody didn't like me or wantme or approve of me, so I still
do that little thing where Icatch inside a little and think
(28:55):
that they're correct.
Right but you know we actuallyhave the power and the freedom
to get rid of people in ourlives that we know don't belong,
like maybe we're the ones thatget to make the decisions you
belong in my life you don'tbelong in my life whereas we
were giving everyone else thepower to determine that before.
(29:15):
Well and at what level do you belong in my
life, like there's people thatare fine at the acquaintance
level.
But, you know, only certainpeople move to the next tier of,
you know, of intimacy, so tospeak, where we share our real
feelings with that, you know,like these people are on this
layer of our life.
And then there's these likelayers into the core.
(29:36):
And sometimes I gave all thatemotion and power to all of
these people, really only thisperson had really earned the
right to be that close to me.
Cindy Bell (29:46):
And that's really a boundary issue, isn't it?
I mean, it's all aboutboundaries.
Laura Wakefield (29:49):
And it's not about putting walls up.
It's more about self esteemboundaries.
Yeah.
Cindy Bell (29:53):
Yeah, definitely.
Laura Wakefield (29:54):
Well, that kind of comes to this next chapter
in your book that I love, TakeYour Sorries Back.
Cindy Bell (30:00):
Oh, this is like one of my favorite topics.
Laura Wakefield (30:02):
Yeah.
So talk to me about that.
Cindy Bell (30:04):
So I found myself my entire life apologizing for
everything, whether it was likespecifically saying, oh, I'm
sorry, or just my behavior said,I'm sorry, right?
Because I felt like I wasresponsible for everything that
went wrong in my world.
And so if it was myresponsibility, I need to
apologize, and then try to makeit right.
So I decided, I think it was2020 or 2021.
(30:27):
I said, I'm going to take mysorries back.
And it was just this visual forme.
I'm taking my sorries back,taking it back.
So now when I apologize, ofcourse, we should apologize when
we wrong somebody.
Of course, we should apologizewhen we're in the wrong.
But there are a lot of timeswhere we don't need to
apologize.
And we can say, instead of, oh,sorry, we can say, thank you
(30:50):
for your patience.
Or I appreciate yourwillingness to, you know, dot,
dot, dot, fill in the blank.
There are more creative ways wecan use our language and our
behavior than being overlyapologetic.
Laura Wakefield (31:07):
Because words matter.
Cindy Bell (31:09):
Words do matter.
Laura Wakefield (31:10):
They matter.
Cindy Bell (31:12):
Yeah.
Very much.
And so we weaken our stance ashuman beings when we're always
apologizing for everything.
Not everything's our fault.
Some things we...
can put out here and go, that'syour issue.
I'm not owning any part ofthat.
Laura Wakefield (31:28):
Well, and I think too, like it almost
becomes reflexive.
Like, you know, you saysomething about how you feel
about something that's totallyvalid because it's my feelings.
So I'm allowed to feel that.
And somebody doesn't like it.
Again, you can't force them tolike it, but you don't have to
be apologetic that that's howyou felt and what you thought.
Cindy Bell (31:47):
Right.
That's right.
Laura Wakefield (31:47):
So another way to, you know, find a way to
reword that.
Well, I can see that we have adifferent opinion about this and
I respect your opinion.
Cindy Bell (31:55):
Yes.
Or, I mean, I have agirlfriend, she's my age and
we're very, very close, but sheapologizes every time we're
talking.
Before she shares an opinion ora thought, she said she
apologizes for it ahead of time.
Laura Wakefield (32:10):
Oh, gosh.
Cindy Bell (32:12):
I'm like, stop.
doing that, but it's soreflexive and so naturally
ingrained in her to do that.
I don't even think she realizesshe's doing it.
And it's something that a lotof women our age carry with us.
We don't realize we're doing itand we don't realize how
disempowering it can be.
So it's just something to thinkabout.
Laura Wakefield (32:31):
Yeah, very much so because every time that we
apologize, and of course, likeyou said, if we've actually done
something wrong, an apology isin order and we need to do that.
But when we apologize overevery little thing, you know,
I'm sorry, that I shouldn'thave said that.
Or I'm sorry that you feel thatway about me.
Or all of us, we're sendingourselves a message constantly
(32:54):
that we're bad or that we'rewrong or that we somehow are
responsible for everything andevery interaction.
And we're not, I even saythings like, oh, I'm sorry, I
have to hang up the phone now.
Like, just say it differently.
Just say, I really need to getgoing.
Can we talk again tomorrow?
Cindy Bell (33:12):
Yes.
Laura Wakefield (33:12):
Take the sorry out of it.
Cindy Bell (33:14):
Yes.
Laura Wakefield (33:15):
You know, you're not doing anything wrong.
I love that.
And kind of going along withthat was the other, the other
one, no is a complete sentence.
We tend to say no.
And then I feel like I have to,I do this all the time.
So that one made me laugh,because I still do this, but
I'll say no.
And then I'll feel like I needto give this extensive
(33:36):
explanation justifying why Isaid no.
So talk to me about that.
Cindy Bell (33:41):
Oh my gosh.
Same.
I just couldn't say no.
Laura Wakefield (33:44):
Right.
Cindy Bell (33:46):
Because no might hurt somebody's feelings.
Right?
So I have to like massage itand make it really palatable for
whoever's hearing the no.
And it's still hard, like you.
No, I'm not able to do thatright now.
That's okay.
(34:07):
Men do this all the time.
Men do not typically feel theneed to explain their no.
Laura Wakefield (34:12):
Well, the problem that I see with the way
that I do it, typically I'mtrying to get better, is it's
not really a no.
Because I'll say no and thenI'll start explaining.
And sort of like if you go to acar dealership and say no,
they'll try to, you're leavingthe door open for them to
convince you that your no isn'treally a no.
(34:34):
And it becomes almost anegotiation.
Cindy Bell (34:36):
Yeah.
Laura Wakefield (34:37):
Because I'm still explaining and still
talking, there's still room forthat to be turned into a yes.
And very often, because I'm apleaser, I will allow it to be.
I'll say, no, I cannot do that.
And then before I know it, notonly am I doing that, but I'm
also on the committee for thisother thing.
And now I'm doing three timesas much as what I said no to.
(34:59):
And I do that all the time.
I think women do that.
Cindy Bell (35:02):
And then we're resentful because we're suddenly
involved in all these things wedon't want to be involved in.
It's like, I still find myselfin the situation over, over
committed in things I don't wantto be committed to.
Like I'll agree to a, I'llagree to a lunch date that I
really have no desire to attend.
Laura Wakefield (35:22):
Right.
Cindy Bell (35:23):
Why did I agree to it?
No, I'm not going to be able todo that.
And you know..
Laura Wakefield (35:28):
Even, you know, on another deeper level,
sometimes we'll continueromantic relationships that
really aren't serving us becausewe're too afraid to hurt
someone's feelings orfriendships or whatever it is.
But I'm learning that if youdon't really want to be there,
(35:48):
then that's not actually fair tothem.
Like you may not have hurttheir feelings on the surface,
but you're kind of dooming themto stay in a relationship that's
with someone that doesn'treally love them.
Cindy Bell (35:58):
Yes.
Laura Wakefield (35:59):
You're not always being nice.
Cindy Bell (36:02):
Right.
Laura Wakefield (36:03):
To try to, you know, pacify.
Cindy Bell (36:05):
It's really about clearly communicating our
intentions and our desires toother people.
And knowing that it's okay tomake my intentions very clear.
And it doesn't mean you're abitch.
That means you are just a womanwith clarity.
Laura Wakefield (36:25):
People, once they're used to that, like if
you haven't been that way,showing up that way in your life
before, it might rebuff somepeople at first because they
don't, they're not used to thatside of you.
But once they are and peoplethat meet you in that confident
space, because again, it's notabout being bitchy.
You're not being mean to say,no, I'm sorry, I'm not able to
do that.
(36:45):
Yeah.
It's not.
And if you don't come at itlike you think you're being mean
and all apologetic, it's justvery matter of fact, there's not
a whole lot that anyone can sayto that.
If you just flat out say no,I'm sorry, I can't do that.
Or you don't even have to saysorry.
How do we say that, Cindy?
How do we take the sorry out?
Cindy Bell (37:04):
No, thank you.
I appreciate you.
I appreciate the request.
No, thank you.
I won't be able to do that.
I mean, I don't know.
I think it's a mindful thing.
You have to remind yourself,don't say sorry.
Don't say I'm sorry.
Laura Wakefield (37:18):
Yeah.
Cindy Bell (37:19):
The flip side to this whole no is a complete
sentence, and I wrote about thisin my book too, is that yes,
I've had to relearn how to sayyes, because I was saying no to
my kids so often.
I say no to my immediatefamily, the ones I love the
most, but I say yes to theentire world.
How screwed up is that?
That's backwards.
(37:39):
So now I'm learning to say yesto my family, the people I love
the most, and saying no to theoutside world.
Laura Wakefield (37:46):
I think too saying yes to you and the things
that matter to you also can beput on the table as things that
you're allowed to say yes to,even if it means you're not
going to be there to be on thatcommittee.
Cindy Bell (37:59):
That's right.
Laura Wakefield (38:00):
You know, no, I'm sorry.
I can't do that.
I'm going to be doing my ownthing, like that sounds really
uncomfortable, but it's valid.
Cindy Bell (38:07):
One thing for me, my workout time is sacred.
Like that is when I need thattime, not just physically, but
mentally.
And I have found so many timesI've kind of bended, you know,
bent, allowed other things totake.
But now I'm like, nope, this ismy workout time.
No to everything else,basically, because it's me.
(38:29):
It's yes to me.
So, yeah.
Laura Wakefield (38:32):
And knowing that that fills you up and is
really important to your ownmental health and physical
health and all of that stuff.
When you say yes to that,you're actually going to be able
to show up as a much morestronger, more powerful,
energetic, present person to theother things that you say yes
to.
And I find when I say no tomyself and all the things that
(38:55):
feed me, I'm showing up.
That's when I tend to starthalf-assing.
Cindy Bell (39:00):
Yeah.
Laura Wakefield (39:01):
Everywhere.
Because I'm not fed.
I'm not grounded.
I'm, you know, I'm not takingcare of myself.
Cindy Bell (39:07):
For sure.
Laura Wakefield (39:08):
So it's not selfish at all.
Okay, Cindy, I have one morequestion for you.
But before I do, tell everybodyhow they find you.
How do we find Cindy Bell?
Cindy Bell (39:17):
My website is being revamped, but it is, I think
it's cindybellcoaching.com, butI'm not sure it's running at
this particular time, but youcan also find me on social
media, Facebook, Cindy Bell,Instagram.
Actually, it's funny.
We talked about this.
I have two Instagram accounts,but I'm thinking about merging
them into one brand, but it'swhatthe50.
(39:39):
You can find me whatthe50 onInstagram and then TikTok Cindy
Bell sells.
But yeah, I'm pretty easy tofind.
But cindybellcoaching.com.
I think that would be that's mywebsite.
Laura Wakefield (39:53):
And I'll put links to all of that and to your
book in the description forthis interview.
So my last question for you,because the basis of this
podcast is talking about livingjoyful living.
Cindy Bell (40:06):
Yeah.
Laura Wakefield (40:08):
Is that possible for women after 50?
Is there life after 50 that'sfull of happiness and full of
joy?
It's not just a steady downhillafter 50.
Talk to me about joyful livingafter 50.
Cindy Bell (40:20):
Oh, I love that question.
It is definitely possible.
And it is not only possible,but I think that there is much
more joy in being this age thanany other age previously in my
life, because we do have thissense of wisdom.
You know, we we've experienceda lot so we we carry a lot of
(40:42):
wisdom with us now at this pointin our lives and we know what
matters and we know what doesnot matter as much anymore, and
so we can live joyfully.
If we can figure out how todeal with the the things that
you know the whole menopausalissue and the things that may
make us feel less than at thispoint in our lives.
(41:04):
It's just developing thatconfidence of who we are and
then moving forward into this.
This is the second act of ourlives and embracing that and
just taking it and saying, I'mgoing to own this period of my
life.
And I wake up every dayactually and say, I'm choosing
joy today.
(41:24):
I am choosing my attitudetoday.
I really have to be veryintentional about that, because
I know a lot of women who arepissed at the world.
Like, and they just like, Oh, Ihate my life.
Laura Wakefield (41:38):
No, in fact, a lot of people, most people I
think have a bit of an attitudeabout that.
Cindy Bell (41:43):
Yeah.
You have to, it's, you have,you have a choice every single
day.
Am I going to be joyful todayor am I going to be just pissed
off and miserable?
Laura Wakefield (41:53):
Right.
And you can't always choose thecircumstances.
Like you have physical thingsthat are happening to our
bodies.
We do have things likedivorces, I mean, these things
are happening and they're hardand it's not to minimize that.
Cindy Bell (42:05):
Yeah, and I'm not saying don't pretend that things
aren't happening.
It's don't deal with yourissues.
Yeah, there's a lot of thingshappening that are hard and
challenging.
And I'm not saying minimizethat and pretend like, oh, it's
great.
But there's a way to embraceyour challenges more
productively.
Because I just refuse...
(42:27):
I refuse to stay stuck anymore.
I refuse to stay down.
I was married twice.
I'm on my third marriage.
Thank goodness I figured thisout at age 50, right?
But I married, you know, twoother people before him that
were very wrong for me.
And I just stuck with it aslong as I could.
(42:48):
But I was miserable and Irefuse to be miserable anymore
in my life.
Joy, you know, so, so much ofthis has to come from ourselves,
our internal intentionality andthe outside world's going to be
what it's going to be.
Our circumstances are stillgoing to be there, but we have
(43:08):
the power to, to change the lenswith which we view the world.
Laura Wakefield (43:14):
A hundred percent.
And I think that's part of thepower of being over 50 is
we've been through enough thatwe can look back on our lives
now and realize that so much ofwhat we thought mattered didn't.
And so much of what we thoughtwe had to be or had to do or had
to think was never true.
And at 50, I think there is alittle bit of a kind of what the
(43:35):
50 kind of attitude that comesup like, well, hey, I'm on the
second act now.
I'm going to do thisdifferently now.
And I love that freedom.
Cindy Bell (43:44):
And the thing is, is that it's never too late.
It is never too late to startyour life over.
It's never too late to makedifferent decisions.
You're never too old to dowhatever you want to do.
It's really, you got to changeyour mindset about this, that
you are not too old and it's nottoo late.
Laura Wakefield (44:05):
A hundred percent.
Cindy, thank you so, so muchfor being my guest today.
I always love talking to you,my friend.
Cindy Bell (44:12):
We need to collaborrate more.
Laura Wakefield (44:12):
I agree.
Hi everybody.
Welcome to The Joy fulicityPodcast.
I'm your host, Laura Wakefieldand today I am thrilled to have
my good friend Cindy Bell on theshow with me.
Cindy and I have known eachother for about 30 years.
(00:21):
We went to college together wayback in the day and then we
lost touch for a little whileand reconnected a few years ago
only to discover that our liveshad taken a very similar track.
We're both realtors, we're bothlife coaches, we both have big
families.
We basically lived parallellives for all of those years.
(00:42):
So it's been super fun toreconnect with Cindy.
And she has done what I'vetalked about for years.
And she has published a bookcalled "What the Fifty?" dishing
all things to do with lifeafter 50.
So welcome, Cindy.
It's good to have you.
Cindy Bell (00:59):
Thank you for having me.
I appreciate it.
Laura Wakefield (01:02):
It's wonderful.
So tell me about...
your book?
What made you go from the pointof, Hey, I have a lot to say
to, I think I'm going to write abook about it.
Like, tell me about that.
I don't really know.
I just, I just like, I came upwith the phrase, what the fifty,
(01:22):
um, a few years ago, uh, rightafter I'm 56 now.
So, um, I kind of went throughthis point in my life when I was
about 50, where I went througha huge transition.
I got a divorce, not just adivorce, but my second divorce.
And it was like a huge, hugething for me to kind of accept.
And I'm like, embraced thewhole turning 50 moment as a
(01:45):
huge transitional pivotal timein my life.
And I wanted to call itsomething like it needed, I
needed to kind of label thiswhole experience.
And then in sharing with otherwomen, my age, similar age, um,
I wanted to have like a brandsort of a feel like, and so it
was like, what the 50, so kindof a play on what the f***5 you
(02:07):
know?
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Which is how it feels for mostof us.
When we turn 50, there's thatmoment where we look in the
mirror and we go, how did thishappen?
How did I, how did I get here?
You know.
Cindy Bell (02:19):
That's what I was trying to capture.
Like the whole, what ishappening to me physically,
hormonally, mentally, everythingin my life is changing.
Nothing looks the same, bothfiguratively and literally.
And I kind of wanted to capturethat with What the Fifty, and
the book is just sort of a, acompilation of personal stories.
It's kind of like coachingslash personal humorous moments
(02:45):
slash serious stuff.
I mean, it's just kind of aweird arrangement of my
thoughts.
Laura Wakefield (02:50):
Well, what I love about your book, because
I've read it and I love itbecause I'm also in my 50s, so
it resonated a lot with me.
And I think that it will withmost women in their 50s, men
too, but I think it's primarilywritten
for the female experience of what that feels like to be in your 50's as a woman. You are just so relateable. Like, you do share stories and a lot of humor, because I think we tend to take this all very seriously.
Cindy Bell (03:03):
Yes.
Our bodies are changing. Our lives are changing and it feels very heavy and very serious and you just put a lot of humor into it. That we may as well laugh about this stuff, because it's happening.
Right.
Well, I'm pretty sarcastic, andit's just kind of one of my
(03:31):
defaults.
My love language may besarcasm.
So I just find humor in a lotof things, and I think if you're
not laughing and having fun,what's the point, right?
Laura Wakefield (03:43):
Exactly.
And I think that they call it amidlife crisis, but I don't
like that term, because that hasa negative connotation.
I kind of like midlifediscovery period, but it can be
very traumatic experience.
Yes
You know because you have to rethink
everything you ever thought thatyou knew and often there are
(04:04):
divorces and things like thatthat are happening at this age
that's not uncommon so...
Yes we find ourselves in aposition where we're kind of
having to redefine andre-navigate what life looks like
because like you said divorceit's you know unfortunately it's
pretty common and um we're kindof in the middle like we're
suddenly empty nesting.
(04:26):
You're not quite there yet, butyou're getting there.
You have nine, so it's takingyou a little bit longer.
I'm a little behind the curve on that one,
but yeah, it'll happen though.
It will.
Yeah.
So we're empty nesting.
Our parents are aging.
Our parents are dying, youknow, and suddenly we're left
single or divorced or, you know,in new relationships.
And so everything looksdifferent and we have to figure
(04:46):
out how do we do life now?
As women, we know so much more.
We have so much experience andknowledge, things that we've
learned along the way, buteverything's different.
How do we move through this?
I like what you said.
It's more of a discovery, not acrisis, although it can be a
crisis.
It's going to be as traumatic as what our
(05:07):
mindset is about it.
That's why I love books likeyours because it starts to
challenge whether or not thatmindset needs to be negative or
not.
Cindy Bell (05:15):
Right.
Laura Wakefield (05:15):
You Know, because everything in society
tells us that this is a horriblething.
You know, we're getting old andgetting old is not good.
You know, we don't look 20anymore.
We, you know, and we'resupposed to somehow be ashamed
of that and try to, you know,fight that.
And it's happening.
Whether we fight it or not,it's happening.
Cindy Bell (05:35):
Yeah, we have not been given permission by
society, not that we need it,but to age gracefully.
Men have permission to do so,but we don't.
We're expected to color ourhair.
We're expected to fight aging,fight our wrinkles, and stay in
shape and stay thin.
And I'm all for all of that.
I fight aging.
(05:56):
I will continue to fight it asmuch as I can.
However, sometimes I just wantto breathe.
I just want to be like, screwthis.
I'm 56 years old.
I can't look 35.
I just, I can't, and I'm notgoing to.
I'll do the best I can for aslong as I can.
But if we put, let's say likethe medical field, if they put
(06:20):
as much energy toward figuringout menopause and how to help
women through menopause as theydid making Viagra
for men, we would have made a lot of strides.
We're getting there.
Laura Wakefield (06:33):
Oh, and I think that it's about, like you said,
I mean, I'm about trying tolook the best that I can at
whatever age that I'm at.
What I don't want anymore,though, is to feel the shame
because on my best day, I'm notgoing to look 20 anymore.
I can look awesome for 54, butI'm 54 and I'm never going to
(06:57):
look 20 and that's okay.
You know, that's all right.
And that's where I want to getwithin my own self.
But I'd like to see society getthere, because I know there's
so many women our age that arejust suffering.
Cindy Bell (07:09):
Yes.
Laura Wakefield (07:09):
All these things to do with aging.
And it's going to happenwhether we suffer or whether we
find the humor in it.
It's not about whether coloryour hair or don't.
You know, that's a personalchoice for people to make.
But let's not be ashamed whenwe look in the mirror and don't
look 25 as if somehow our worthand our value as a woman is
(07:31):
diminished.
Cindy Bell (07:32):
Exactly.
Laura Wakefield (07:34):
We're powerful.
In fact, a lot of people aretalking now, and I love your
take on this, that people ourage in their 50s now are aging
differently.
What do you think about thatwhen you hear that?
Because I think it's true.
Cindy Bell (07:47):
I think it's true.
Yeah.
Because when we were kids, Iwould think of a woman in her
fifties.
The, the image that came to meback then was short gray hair.
Laura Wakefield (08:00):
Always
Cindy Bell (08:01):
Retired.
And, you know, they reading thenewspaper every morning,
drinking her coffee there.
It's just like sort of a, weare aging differently.
I mean, we are taking our powerback.
We are taking control ofourselves and how we age.
And I think that, That's areally, really good thing.
But maybe we've also createdthese false expectations for
(08:25):
ourselves to look a certain way.
I mean, look, you've had ninechildren.
I've had five children.
The body just does certainthings after it's out there.
Laura Wakefield (08:35):
It will never be the same.
Cindy Bell (08:37):
I mean, and why are we trying to, not that we get
sloppy or complacent, but whyare we trying to look like we
have not birthed multiple humanbeings?
Because no matter how hard youtry, you can't fully fight that.
No.
It's just, it's never going tolook the same again entirely as
(08:59):
it once did.
And I think that's okay.
It's really okay.
You know, I think what it'sabout is having that personal
power to choose to look how wewant to and how we do and to
love our body where it's at,right?
Even if we're trying to makepositive changes, like right
now, I would love to loseanother 20 to 30 pounds, right?
(09:20):
And that's all right to want todo that.
But I need to love myself nowwhile I'm in the process of
that.
Yes.
I will love myself when I'm 30pounds thinner and look 25
again.
No, now, right now.
Right.
And it's our job to teachsociety, to teach others how to
(09:43):
treat us.
I mean, I scroll throughInstagram or TikTok and older
women, we have a big platform onsocial media.
Like we take up a lot of space.
Like it's a big thing.
Women over 50, it's a bigdemographic on social media.
But there are so many men,trolls on there, who are saying,
oh my God, you look terrible.
(10:05):
Put a paper bag on your head orcolor your hair, or you need to
lose some weight.
All these comments and it'sconstant.
It's our job to redefine thenarrative and to shift the
narrative and to allow others tosee us differently, because we
have to come forth as beingpowerful.
We have to love ourselves sodamn much that everyone else
(10:25):
looks at us and goes, yeah.
Laura Wakefield (10:28):
Well, that's why I think it's so important.
People like you who are writingbooks about this and running
your Facebook page, that sort ofthing, because there's so many
sources, like you said, trolls,but but other sources, too, that
are telling us that we don'thave as much value anymore.
And it's so important to havewomen out there speaking out and
(10:50):
reminding each other.
Yes, you do.
Yeah, we are powerful.
We are.
We're powerful because webecause we're not 20.
And that's the important part.
I wouldn't want to go back to20.
I didn't know anything when Iwas 20.
I did everything.
I mean, I didn't know anything.
I had no life experience.
And so all of the things thatwe've been through that some of
(11:13):
them are difficult, some of themare wonderful, but they all
have shaped us and informed us.
And that's why we're powerful.
Cindy Bell (11:21):
Yes, exactly.
Laura Wakefield (11:22):
You know, so these wrinkles mean something to
me.
Cindy Bell (11:26):
Yeah, they do.
Definitely.
Yes.
Laura Wakefield (11:29):
So tell me about the core four.
Cindy Bell (11:33):
So the core four, basically there's four pillars
and there's more than that.
If you can actually have subpillars within these four
pillars, but it's your physical,your spiritual, relational, and
financial.
So these four areas in mycoaching program, I don't know
what you do in yours, but in mypersonal coaching program, I
(11:53):
coach people on these fourareas.
Like, how's your physical?
How's your relational?
How's your spiritual?
How's your financial?
And like I said, there could besub pillars, but those are the
basic four that we concentrateon.
And setting goals for yourselfwithin each one, you know,
taking a hard look, a hardinventory of where you are and
(12:16):
where you want to be.
And then breaking it downwithin each of those four areas.
Laura Wakefield (12:23):
Well, I have found too, when one is a little
off kilter, often it's throwingthe others off kilter too.
So if you can regain somestrength in one area to where
you feel powerful again, it willspill over into the other areas
too.
Do you find that with yourclients?
Cindy Bell (12:38):
So true.
And for most of them, actually,it's the physical that if they
feel good about themselves, youknow, they're taking care of
their health, they're feelinggood, then that spills into most
of the other areas.
That's not for all of them, butfor most of them.
And for myself.
Laura Wakefield (12:55):
And whatever that looks like for them, you
know, but that they feel, Ithink for me right now, the
reason that I'm kind of reallytackling this last little bit of
weight loss, it's not really somuch for appearance.
I mean, it is because, youknow, I'm going to be on camera,
all of that sort of thing.
But it's more than that.
It's more...
That I feel like that's onearea where I don't have...
(13:17):
I'm not at my best.
And it's very empowering to meto think of taking control of
that again and getting it back.
Because I think that that senseof empowerment is where your
confidence comes in all otherareas of your life.
Cindy Bell (13:34):
Yes, for sure.
Laura Wakefield (13:35):
How do you teach people to...
Where do you tell people tostart if they're feeling out of
control everywhere?
Cindy Bell (13:39):
Well, I have them take a hard look at...
we determine their currentreality.
So they have to get super clearand very, very real.
You know, a lot of people justwant to pretend and frankly lie
about their current situationbecause it's too hard to look at
(14:00):
otherwise.
But let's, let's be clear whenyou're in your fifties, you, you
better get your shit together.
You know, you better know whatyou want.
But more importantly, knowwhere you are right now, because
you can't get to where you wantto go without really getting
super clear on where you are.
Laura Wakefield (14:16):
Yeah.
Cindy Bell (14:17):
So taking a fierce inventory of where you are in
every single area of your lifeand then saying, okay, it's
okay.
It's okay if you feel like youneed to lose 80 pounds.
That's okay.
How are we going to tacklethis?
How can we get from here towhere you want to be and then
take actionable steps to make ithappen?
So it's all about getting veryraw.
(14:37):
and very real with yourself andsay, okay, here it is.
No
Laura Wakefield (14:43):
Which is hard.
I mean, that's painfulsometimes.
Cindy Bell (14:45):
It is.
Laura Wakefield (14:45):
And running away from a reality, you know,
maybe not saving what you shouldfor retirement, for instance,
and trying to just stay indenial about the fact that we're
now in our mid-50s and we don'thave that much time.
Yes.
To really confront that canactually be a little terrifying
at first.
It can be kind of veryupsetting.
But it's
Cindy Bell (15:05):
Yeah.
So for a woman in her fifties,she finds herself suddenly in a
financial situation that she'slike, how am I going to get out
of this?
I need some money.
It's very important to look atthat and go, okay, let's, let's
figure it out.
There's a way out of this.
Let's take some steps to makeit happen.
And it's not sexy.
This is not sexy stuff.
Like this is hardcoreaccountability and action and,
(15:31):
Because like you said, we don'thave, not that we're in our
deathbeds, but we don't havethat much left, that much time.
Laura Wakefield (15:37):
We don't have as much time as we used to, you
know, for sure.
Well, and that's where I thinkyou as a coach come in.
So, you know, have so muchimportance and value is that
accountability.
Because that person left totheir own devices is going to
revert back to their habits.
Cindy Bell (15:54):
Totally.
Laura Wakefield (15:54):
The minute it feels uncomfortable, they're
going to revert back to all ofthe different comfort mechanisms
that they have in place intheir life to hide from that.
That's what they've been doingfor years.
And so to have somebody thatkeeps bringing it back and
saying, okay, wait, wait, wait,come back, come back, look at
this again.
Cindy Bell (16:10):
Yeah, definitely.
Laura Wakefield (16:12):
Super, super important.
I love that.
Okay, so I'm going inhighlights of my favorite parts
of your book.
This chapter was probably myfavorite one.
And maybe because this issomething that I do myself a
lot.
So it was very, it highlightedsome stuff for me.
Stop half-assing your life.
Yeah, that one got to me.
(16:32):
Talk to me about that chapter.
Cindy Bell (16:34):
Yeah, I mean, it got to me too, because I'm
preaching to the choir and somuch of this book is stop
half-assing your life.
I know for me, I found that Ican do most things pretty well.
And I can operate about 75% ofmy capacity and kind of skate,
you know, kind of coast through,but that's half-assing it.
(16:54):
Right?
I mean, you make a decisionwhen you wake up every day, am I
going to be like excellenttoday in as in many areas as I
can, or I'm going to half-assit?
I mean, it's up to you.
If you like half-assing yourlife, go for it.
I mean, I'm not here to shameanybody into, into a certain way
of living, but if, if you'reaware that you're half-assing
(17:15):
your life and you want it tochange, then maybe you just need
to admit, I'm half-assing mylife.
Let's do something different,right?
Laura Wakefield (17:22):
Well, once you admit that to yourself, it's
hard to run away from theaccountability at that point.
Cindy Bell (17:28):
Yeah, absolutely.
Laura Wakefield (17:29):
Because you know it.
And I think that one of thethings that causes me to do
that, sometimes it's laziness.
I mean, that's the truth.
Sometimes I just don't feel it.
But sometimes I'm actuallyafraid of what it would mean if
I gave it my all.
Like, not just that somebodywould reject me, but maybe it
would really go well.
And if it does, then I haveresponsibility for all of the
(17:52):
things that might come fromthat.
And that overwhelms me alittle.
So if I can just stay over herehalf-assing, then I don't have
to deal with all of that.
Cindy Bell (18:00):
Absolutely.
And look at us, you know, we'reboth on this very similar
trajectory and we're doing verycreative things in this time of
our lives.
And it's a blessing, but it'salso kind of a curse because
what if this goes really, reallywell?
It's scary.
Like, what if my podcast startsreaching millions?
(18:20):
Or what if my coaching programstarts making six figures,
multiple six figures?
Like, then what?
What if my social media blowsup completely?
You know, then what?
It's safer, right?
Definitely and more comfortableto stay here.
Laura Wakefield (18:36):
Well, and what will that require of me?
Cindy Bell (18:40):
Right.
Laura Wakefield (18:41):
Like if I put out the best of myself, sure
there's the chance of beingrejected, but I'm almost more
comfortable with that.
Cindy Bell (18:48):
Yes.
Laura Wakefield (18:49):
Weirdly than I am with, but like you said, what
if it blows up and it getshuge?
And what will that look like?
Well, how will my life change?
Cindy Bell (18:56):
Well, you know, the more things blow up and go well,
the more people you connectwith, but that also means the
more criticism you aredefinitely going to get.
And that's hard, right?
So it is safer to not doanything at all or to play
really small.
(19:17):
And I'm kind of stucksometimes, to be totally honest
with you, I'm kind of stucksometimes between this, go get
it, go after it, play big, playhard.
And screw it.
I'm 56.
I don't have to do anything Idon't want to do.
Laura Wakefield (19:32):
Maybe I should start slowing my life down now.
Yes.
I think we flip flop back andforth.
And I think we're also dealingwith the societal things that,
especially in our generation,not so much the younger women,
but women in our generation havekind of been told for a long
time that maybe we should playsmall, that we have certain
roles to play.
And maybe we're out of our laneif we really reach big and try
(19:56):
to, and it's a very ingrainedidea that somehow we're not
being feminine anymore or we'renot being a good wife or mom if
we're really reaching hard forour personal dreams.
And I think a lot of us fightagainst those little inner
demons.
Cindy Bell (20:12):
Oh yeah.
But especially Laura, let's behonest, people like you and me
who we've, we've kind of beentrained, taught and educated
through this religious systemthat we both came through.
And I don't know how much youwant to get into this.
Laura Wakefield (20:25):
We can talk about anything here.
Yeah.
Cindy and I both used to be inthe Mormon church and actually
we met at BYU and we both havesince left the Mormon church,
but that is a huge part of bothof our history.
Cindy Bell (20:35):
Yeah.
Yes.
So we have that common threadand that we were taught.
I mean, even if it was justsort of, what's the word I'm
looking for?
Not directly.
Definitely.
We caught this indirectly, butit was pretty direct that women
are, we have an inferior role.
And so basically our voices donot matter nearly as much as our
(21:00):
male counterparts.
Like, I don't know that I eversaw myself as inferior so much
as that my role was prettydefined and pretty specific, so
to reach outside of that waskind of just, you know, getting
out of my lane.
It was not...
This is where you belong over here.
Laura Wakefield (21:19):
Exactly.
And it was valuable.
I felt like it was valuable andall of that, but it was very
defined.
And so if I had bigger ideasthan that, that somehow I just
wasn't being faithful orcontented.
Cindy Bell (21:33):
Yes.
Laura Wakefield (21:35):
You know, and, and I guess I wasn't fully
contented.
To be totally truthful, thatwasn't enough for me.
And I wanted more, but I stillfight against that thinking that
I need to...
Cindy Bell (21:46):
Yeah, tamp it down, Laura.
Laura, calm down.
Laura Wakefield (21:49):
Be smaller.
Yeah, exactly.
Cindy Bell (21:51):
Don't be too loud.
Laura Wakefield (21:52):
Yeah, don't be too big.
But I have a really bigpersonality and that's been
something that I do thatflip-flopping of, oh, you need
to...
be here and no, I'm going to beover here.
And, and that's a huge internalconflict that I wrestle with
when I'm doing something likestarting a podcast.
How, how, how much am I allowedto be here?
Yeah.
It's like, how loud can I behere?
Cindy Bell (22:13):
Exactly.
Like, do I really belong inthis space of, Oh, right.
These people over here are theones who do podcasts.
Not me.
Laura Wakefield (22:21):
Not me.
I'm just a mom.
Cindy Bell (22:23):
Right.
How silly.
Oh, I was being silly.
Oh yeah.
I mean, but you know, I thinkthat that is really common, like
you said, for women our age tobe constantly doing this one
voice here and one voice here,and we're constantly at battle.
I do see younger women, though,in their 20s, 30s, even 40s,
who don't even have thisconversation going on in their
(22:45):
head.
Laura Wakefield (22:45):
They're released from it entirely.
Cindy Bell (22:47):
Entirely.
Yes.
So I think it's very normal forwomen our age, but I think that
we need to, that all the morereason that we need to keep, we
need to keep speaking.
We need to keep standing up andsaying the things that matter
and that are not to be obnoxiousor anything, but just to say,
Hey, we're here.
We're not going away.
Like on TikTok, we're, we'rehere on TikTok.
Laura Wakefield (23:10):
So get used to it.
We're here.
Cindy Bell (23:11):
And my kids are like...
Laura Wakefield (23:14):
Oh, Cindy has the most hilarious TikTok feeds.
I love your posts on TikTokbecause they're so relatable.
You'll say the stuff that otherpeople are thinking.
What's your, tell everybodywhat your TikTok handle is so
they can find you.
Cindy Bell (23:30):
I think right now, because I try to, because I'm a
realtor as well.
So it's @CindyBell sells.
And so it's like, I reallydon't like that handle.
I'm thinking about changing it,but yeah.
That's a whole nother thing weneed to talk about branding.
Like, who are we?
Are we just one brand?
And then all these differentthings that we do underneath the
brand, because we're realtors,we're coaches, we're podcasters,
(23:52):
we're moms, like we'remultifaceted.
So anyway, you can find me onTikTok @Cindy Bell Sells, but I
love TikTok because it is theplace I can be the most
authentic version of myself.
And it freaks my husband out.
He's like, God...
Laura Wakefield (24:07):
Who are you?
Cindy Bell (24:10):
And I'm like, I just feel free.
Laura Wakefield (24:12):
Yeah, like, I found that too.
So when I was on all the othersocial medias for a long time,
and I resisted TikTok, becauseit felt kind of silly.
Cindy Bell (24:20):
Yes.
Laura Wakefield (24:22):
Because you are silly on there, you just you
act out and you do these crazyvideos and all this kind of
stuff.
I have found TikTok to be themost freeing of all the social
medias.
And I don't know what's aboutto happen with all of that.
I won't get into that about allof that right now.
But But just to learn how to bethat open about that silly side
of myself has been very freeingfor me.
(24:42):
And I really enjoyed that.
And it's spilling over into therest of my social medias and my
life.
And when you were talking aboutbranding, I think for a long
time with branding, I thought Ihad to put myself out there as a
realtor, like put the realestate first or the coaching
first and then hide myself alittle bit back behind those
professional titles and labels.
(25:02):
And I'm starting to mix allthat together now and realize
that my brand is really me.
And that is reallyuncomfortable for me, to be
totally honest.
It's something I'm steppinginto a little bit, but it's
uncomfortable.
And I think that's true ofevery woman, whether she's doing
podcasting or not.
Your personal brand is you andyour authenticity and your
(25:25):
uniqueness and everything thatmakes you you.
And don't be afraid of that.
Cindy Bell (25:30):
Absolutely.
And I have found the moreauthentic I am, as uncomfortable
as that is, I attract thepeople that are really supposed
to be in my life.
Laura Wakefield (25:43):
Yes.
Cindy Bell (25:43):
And, and that's just, you know, I don't want to
be connected to people who don'twant to be connected to me.
So might as well just beourselves, whether it's on
social media or in real lifewith real people face to face,
just be you and let the chipsfall where they may.
And let the people who are notsupposed to be in your life, not
be in your life.
Laura Wakefield (26:03):
And that it's actually a blessing that they
exited.
Cindy Bell (26:06):
Yes.
Laura Wakefield (26:07):
You know, and that's hard to come to until
you're kind of reallycomfortable with who you are.
Cindy Bell (26:14):
Oh my gosh.
I can't tell you.
I don't know if you can relateto this, but I'm thinking about
all the toxic relationships thatI've had throughout my life.
Laura Wakefield (26:23):
Yeah.
Cindy Bell (26:23):
Even just friendships, casual friendships
that were toxic because thosepeople were not my people.
Yet I was trying to make thosepeople, my people.
I'm like, I don't have, I don'thave time for that anymore.
I only have time for realauthentic relationships.
Laura Wakefield (26:39):
Yeah.
Because what you get, whatI've, it took me till my fifties
to learn this.
I didn't know this in mytwenties that if you curate
yourself to please someone elseand are not showing up as you,
all you're going to have at theend of that i s a relationship
where you have to be somethingyou're not, and you're never
going to be comfortable there.
You're never going to be happythere.
Cindy Bell (26:56):
No. That was, you know, one thing, my upbringing
in the Mormon church really kindof defined me in this space
that I was taught in nouncertain terms that it was my
responsibility to show up as thewoman that a man might need.
to be his eternal companion, tobe his faithful.
(27:19):
So I kind of, you know, didthese gymnastics of turning
myself inside out to be thatperfect woman that a man would
want to marry.
And it's like, I totally lostwho I was.
And it really wasn't until my50s, early 50s, where I said,
who am I?
What do I believe?
What do I stand for?
(27:39):
What are my opinions?
And it turned out that Iactually did not have any of the
same opinions as my ex-husbandat all.
I actually had my own personalthoughts and opinions.
And that was like, whoa.
Laura Wakefield (27:52):
And then you're like, well, now I kind of know
why that didn't work.
How could it ever have workedwhen...
we weren't showing up asourselves.
And I think that idea thatthere's a set way to be so that
you are lovable so that peoplewill want you is really false.
There's billions of people onthis planet.
Cindy Bell (28:12):
Yes.
Laura Wakefield (28:13):
So you only need one really in terms of, of
a romantic relationship and youdon't need that many friends
even.
And you know, you don't need amassive tribe.
So be you.
There are plenty of people outthere that will want you.
And like you said, for you andthen you'll just live a more
comfortable life you know I meanthat's that's something I'm
(28:34):
learning but that's a hard oneto learn.
Being rejected still feelsuncomfortable for me because,
because it's not so much thatI'm sad about those people
exiting as I still attributesomething's wrong with me if
somebody didn't like me or wantme or approve of me, so I still
do that little thing where Icatch inside a little and think
(28:55):
that they're correct.
Right but you know we actuallyhave the power and the freedom
to get rid of people in ourlives that we know don't belong,
like maybe we're the ones thatget to make the decisions you
belong in my life you don'tbelong in my life whereas we
were giving everyone else thepower to determine that before.
(29:15):
Well and at what level do you belong in my
life, like there's people thatare fine at the acquaintance
level.
But, you know, only certainpeople move to the next tier of,
you know, of intimacy, so tospeak, where we share our real
feelings with that, you know,like these people are on this
layer of our life.
And then there's these likelayers into the core.
(29:36):
And sometimes I gave all thatemotion and power to all of
these people, really only thisperson had really earned the
right to be that close to me.
Cindy Bell (29:46):
And that's really a boundary issue, isn't it?
I mean, it's all aboutboundaries.
Laura Wakefield (29:49):
And it's not about putting walls up.
It's more about self esteemboundaries.
Yeah.
Cindy Bell (29:53):
Yeah, definitely.
Laura Wakefield (29:54):
Well, that kind of comes to this next chapter
in your book that I love, TakeYour Sorries Back.
Cindy Bell (30:00):
Oh, this is like one of my favorite topics.
Laura Wakefield (30:02):
Yeah.
So talk to me about that.
Cindy Bell (30:04):
So I found myself my entire life apologizing for
everything, whether it was likespecifically saying, oh, I'm
sorry, or just my behavior said,I'm sorry, right?
Because I felt like I wasresponsible for everything that
went wrong in my world.
And so if it was myresponsibility, I need to
apologize, and then try to makeit right.
So I decided, I think it was2020 or 2021.
(30:27):
I said, I'm going to take mysorries back.
And it was just this visual forme.
I'm taking my sorries back,taking it back.
So now when I apologize, ofcourse, we should apologize when
we wrong somebody.
Of course, we should apologizewhen we're in the wrong.
But there are a lot of timeswhere we don't need to
apologize.
And we can say, instead of, oh,sorry, we can say, thank you
(30:50):
for your patience.
Or I appreciate yourwillingness to, you know, dot,
dot, dot, fill in the blank.
There are more creative ways wecan use our language and our
behavior than being overlyapologetic.
Laura Wakefield (31:07):
Because words matter.
Cindy Bell (31:09):
Words do matter.
Laura Wakefield (31:10):
They matter.
Cindy Bell (31:12):
Yeah.
Very much.
And so we weaken our stance ashuman beings when we're always
apologizing for everything.
Not everything's our fault.
Some things we...
can put out here and go, that'syour issue.
I'm not owning any part ofthat.
Laura Wakefield (31:28):
Well, and I think too, like it almost
becomes reflexive.
Like, you know, you saysomething about how you feel
about something that's totallyvalid because it's my feelings.
So I'm allowed to feel that.
And somebody doesn't like it.
Again, you can't force them tolike it, but you don't have to
be apologetic that that's howyou felt and what you thought.
Cindy Bell (31:47):
Right.
That's right.
Laura Wakefield (31:47):
So another way to, you know, find a way to
reword that.
Well, I can see that we have adifferent opinion about this and
I respect your opinion.
Cindy Bell (31:55):
Yes.
Or, I mean, I have agirlfriend, she's my age and
we're very, very close, but sheapologizes every time we're
talking.
Before she shares an opinion ora thought, she said she
apologizes for it ahead of time.
Laura Wakefield (32:10):
Oh, gosh.
Cindy Bell (32:12):
I'm like, stop.
doing that, but it's soreflexive and so naturally
ingrained in her to do that.
I don't even think she realizesshe's doing it.
And it's something that a lotof women our age carry with us.
We don't realize we're doing itand we don't realize how
disempowering it can be.
So it's just something to thinkabout.
Laura Wakefield (32:31):
Yeah, very much so because every time that we
apologize, and of course, likeyou said, if we've actually done
something wrong, an apology isin order and we need to do that.
But when we apologize overevery little thing, you know,
I'm sorry, that I shouldn'thave said that.
Or I'm sorry that you feel thatway about me.
Or all of us, we're sendingourselves a message constantly
(32:54):
that we're bad or that we'rewrong or that we somehow are
responsible for everything andevery interaction.
And we're not, I even saythings like, oh, I'm sorry, I
have to hang up the phone now.
Like, just say it differently.
Just say, I really need to getgoing.
Can we talk again tomorrow?
Cindy Bell (33:12):
Yes.
Laura Wakefield (33:12):
Take the sorry out of it.
Cindy Bell (33:14):
Yes.
Laura Wakefield (33:15):
You know, you're not doing anything wrong.
I love that.
And kind of going along withthat was the other, the other
one, no is a complete sentence.
We tend to say no.
And then I feel like I have to,I do this all the time.
So that one made me laugh,because I still do this, but
I'll say no.
And then I'll feel like I needto give this extensive
(33:36):
explanation justifying why Isaid no.
So talk to me about that.
Cindy Bell (33:41):
Oh my gosh.
Same.
I just couldn't say no.
Laura Wakefield (33:44):
Right.
Cindy Bell (33:46):
Because no might hurt somebody's feelings.
Right?
So I have to like massage itand make it really palatable for
whoever's hearing the no.
And it's still hard, like you.
No, I'm not able to do thatright now.
That's okay.
(34:07):
Men do this all the time.
Men do not typically feel theneed to explain their no.
Laura Wakefield (34:12):
Well, the problem that I see with the way
that I do it, typically I'mtrying to get better, is it's
not really a no.
Because I'll say no and thenI'll start explaining.
And sort of like if you go to acar dealership and say no,
they'll try to, you're leavingthe door open for them to
convince you that your no isn'treally a no.
(34:34):
And it becomes almost anegotiation.
Cindy Bell (34:36):
Yeah.
Laura Wakefield (34:37):
Because I'm still explaining and still
talking, there's still room forthat to be turned into a yes.
And very often, because I'm apleaser, I will allow it to be.
I'll say, no, I cannot do that.
And then before I know it, notonly am I doing that, but I'm
also on the committee for thisother thing.
And now I'm doing three timesas much as what I said no to.
(34:59):
And I do that all the time.
I think women do that.
Cindy Bell (35:02):
And then we're resentful because we're suddenly
involved in all these things wedon't want to be involved in.
It's like, I still find myselfin the situation over, over
committed in things I don't wantto be committed to.
Like I'll agree to a, I'llagree to a lunch date that I
really have no desire to attend.
Laura Wakefield (35:22):
Right.
Cindy Bell (35:23):
Why did I agree to it?
No, I'm not going to be able todo that.
And you know..
Laura Wakefield (35:28):
Even, you know, on another deeper level,
sometimes we'll continueromantic relationships that
really aren't serving us becausewe're too afraid to hurt
someone's feelings orfriendships or whatever it is.
But I'm learning that if youdon't really want to be there,
(35:48):
then that's not actually fair tothem.
Like you may not have hurttheir feelings on the surface,
but you're kind of dooming themto stay in a relationship that's
with someone that doesn'treally love them.
Cindy Bell (35:58):
Yes.
Laura Wakefield (35:59):
You're not always being nice.
Cindy Bell (36:02):
Right.
Laura Wakefield (36:03):
To try to, you know, pacify.
Cindy Bell (36:05):
It's really about clearly communicating our
intentions and our desires toother people.
And knowing that it's okay tomake my intentions very clear.
And it doesn't mean you're abitch.
That means you are just a womanwith clarity.
Laura Wakefield (36:25):
People, once they're used to that, like if
you haven't been that way,showing up that way in your life
before, it might rebuff somepeople at first because they
don't, they're not used to thatside of you.
But once they are and peoplethat meet you in that confident
space, because again, it's notabout being bitchy.
You're not being mean to say,no, I'm sorry, I'm not able to
do that.
(36:45):
Yeah.
It's not.
And if you don't come at itlike you think you're being mean
and all apologetic, it's justvery matter of fact, there's not
a whole lot that anyone can sayto that.
If you just flat out say no,I'm sorry, I can't do that.
Or you don't even have to saysorry.
How do we say that, Cindy?
How do we take the sorry out?
Cindy Bell (37:04):
No, thank you.
I appreciate you.
I appreciate the request.
No, thank you.
I won't be able to do that.
I mean, I don't know.
I think it's a mindful thing.
You have to remind yourself,don't say sorry.
Don't say I'm sorry.
Laura Wakefield (37:18):
Yeah.
Cindy Bell (37:19):
The flip side to this whole no is a complete
sentence, and I wrote about thisin my book too, is that yes,
I've had to relearn how to sayyes, because I was saying no to
my kids so often.
I say no to my immediatefamily, the ones I love the
most, but I say yes to theentire world.
How screwed up is that?
That's backwards.
(37:39):
So now I'm learning to say yesto my family, the people I love
the most, and saying no to theoutside world.
Laura Wakefield (37:46):
I think too saying yes to you and the things
that matter to you also can beput on the table as things that
you're allowed to say yes to,even if it means you're not
going to be there to be on thatcommittee.
Cindy Bell (37:59):
That's right.
Laura Wakefield (38:00):
You know, no, I'm sorry.
I can't do that.
I'm going to be doing my ownthing, like that sounds really
uncomfortable, but it's valid.
Cindy Bell (38:07):
One thing for me, my workout time is sacred.
Like that is when I need thattime, not just physically, but
mentally.
And I have found so many timesI've kind of bended, you know,
bent, allowed other things totake.
But now I'm like, nope, this ismy workout time.
No to everything else,basically, because it's me.
(38:29):
It's yes to me.
So, yeah.
Laura Wakefield (38:32):
And knowing that that fills you up and is
really important to your ownmental health and physical
health and all of that stuff.
When you say yes to that,you're actually going to be able
to show up as a much morestronger, more powerful,
energetic, present person to theother things that you say yes
to.
And I find when I say no tomyself and all the things that
(38:55):
feed me, I'm showing up.
That's when I tend to starthalf-assing.
Cindy Bell (39:00):
Yeah.
Laura Wakefield (39:01):
Everywhere.
Because I'm not fed.
I'm not grounded.
I'm, you know, I'm not takingcare of myself.
Cindy Bell (39:07):
For sure.
Laura Wakefield (39:08):
So it's not selfish at all.
Okay, Cindy, I have one morequestion for you.
But before I do, tell everybodyhow they find you.
How do we find Cindy Bell?
Cindy Bell (39:17):
My website is being revamped, but it is, I think
it's cindybellcoaching.com, butI'm not sure it's running at
this particular time, but youcan also find me on social
media, Facebook, Cindy Bell,Instagram.
Actually, it's funny.
We talked about this.
I have two Instagram accounts,but I'm thinking about merging
them into one brand, but it'swhatthe50.
(39:39):
You can find me whatthe50 onInstagram and then TikTok Cindy
Bell sells.
But yeah, I'm pretty easy tofind.
But cindybellcoaching.com.
I think that would be that's mywebsite.
Laura Wakefield (39:53):
And I'll put links to all of that and to your
book in the description forthis interview.
So my last question for you,because the basis of this
podcast is talking about livingjoyful living.
Cindy Bell (40:06):
Yeah.
Laura Wakefield (40:08):
Is that possible for women after 50?
Is there life after 50 that'sfull of happiness and full of
joy?
It's not just a steady downhillafter 50.
Talk to me about joyful livingafter 50.
Cindy Bell (40:20):
Oh, I love that question.
It is definitely possible.
And it is not only possible,but I think that there is much
more joy in being this age thanany other age previously in my
life, because we do have thissense of wisdom.
You know, we we've experienceda lot so we we carry a lot of
(40:42):
wisdom with us now at this pointin our lives and we know what
matters and we know what doesnot matter as much anymore, and
so we can live joyfully.
If we can figure out how todeal with the the things that
you know the whole menopausalissue and the things that may
make us feel less than at thispoint in our lives.
(41:04):
It's just developing thatconfidence of who we are and
then moving forward into this.
This is the second act of ourlives and embracing that and
just taking it and saying, I'mgoing to own this period of my
life.
And I wake up every dayactually and say, I'm choosing
joy today.
(41:24):
I am choosing my attitudetoday.
I really have to be veryintentional about that, because
I know a lot of women who arepissed at the world.
Like, and they just like, Oh, Ihate my life.
Laura Wakefield (41:38):
No, in fact, a lot of people, most people I
think have a bit of an attitudeabout that.
Cindy Bell (41:43):
Yeah.
You have to, it's, you have,you have a choice every single
day.
Am I going to be joyful todayor am I going to be just pissed
off and miserable?
Laura Wakefield (41:53):
Right.
And you can't always choose thecircumstances.
Like you have physical thingsthat are happening to our
bodies.
We do have things likedivorces, I mean, these things
are happening and they're hardand it's not to minimize that.
Cindy Bell (42:05):
Yeah, and I'm not saying don't pretend that things
aren't happening.
It's don't deal with yourissues.
Yeah, there's a lot of thingshappening that are hard and
challenging.
And I'm not saying minimizethat and pretend like, oh, it's
great.
But there's a way to embraceyour challenges more
productively.
Because I just refuse...
(42:27):
I refuse to stay stuck anymore.
I refuse to stay down.
I was married twice.
I'm on my third marriage.
Thank goodness I figured thisout at age 50, right?
But I married, you know, twoother people before him that
were very wrong for me.
And I just stuck with it aslong as I could.
(42:48):
But I was miserable and Irefuse to be miserable anymore
in my life.
Joy, you know, so, so much ofthis has to come from ourselves,
our internal intentionality andthe outside world's going to be
what it's going to be.
Our circumstances are stillgoing to be there, but we have
(43:08):
the power to, to change the lenswith which we view the world.
Laura Wakefield (43:14):
A hundred percent.
And I think that's part of thepower of being over 50 is
we've been through enough thatwe can look back on our lives
now and realize that so much ofwhat we thought mattered didn't.
And so much of what we thoughtwe had to be or had to do or had
to think was never true.
And at 50, I think there is alittle bit of a kind of what the
(43:35):
50 kind of attitude that comesup like, well, hey, I'm on the
second act now.
I'm going to do thisdifferently now.
And I love that freedom.
Cindy Bell (43:44):
And the thing is, is that it's never too late.
It is never too late to startyour life over.
It's never too late to makedifferent decisions.
You're never too old to dowhatever you want to do.
It's really, you got to changeyour mindset about this, that
you are not too old and it's nottoo late.
Laura Wakefield (44:05):
A hundred percent.
Cindy, thank you so, so muchfor being my guest today.
I always love talking to you,my friend.
Cindy Bell (44:12):
We need to collaborrate more.
Laura Wakefield (44:12):
I agree.
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