Cultivating Digital Worlds and Examining the Cost of Play

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
We're live boys, gentlemen, how we doing, doing
great and fucking test yeah goodWell tonight we obviously have
plus one.
This is my cousin, also ournumber one fan.
Sorry, ladies.

Speaker 2 (00:17):
Did you go live from the right?

Speaker 3 (00:20):
I got it yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
You have a whole other thing where four people
are waiting on here.

Speaker 1 (00:26):
Is that not?

Speaker 3 (00:27):
I mean, I got people in the chat already People in
this one.

Speaker 1 (00:32):
Yeah, I got people in the chat on this one, yeah,
anyway, another great start toour podcast is always.

Speaker 2 (00:38):
When have we ever had a good start?

Speaker 1 (00:40):
Well, you guys are the vacuum that sucks the wind
out of my sales.

Speaker 2 (00:44):
That's like the opposite of that song.
You're the wind beneath mywings.
You suck the wind out of mysales.

Speaker 1 (00:50):
You're the wind above my wings.
You forced me to crash.
We have a guest on tonight.

Speaker 2 (00:58):
His name's Cole and he's here to offer an additional
frame.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
Well, that was strategic, I know it was.

Speaker 2 (01:05):
I saw you look at me I purposely pushed your chair
down.

Speaker 1 (01:09):
I'm going to get real friendly with you.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
We should have that call Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (01:14):
Introduce yourself, talk to us, tell us what games
you like to play, what media youlike to consume, because I
think it'll this will be aninteresting conversation tonight
, of like, because I think youbring sort of a different
perspective into what games youlike than what we traditionally
play, because I know I'mdifferent from these guys and I
know you're different fromeveryone here.

Speaker 4 (01:32):
So hello, I'm cool, Hi Cole.
Hello guys, Cousin is numberone Cousin.
By the way, I won't point thatout.
I play a lot of different games, Like actually, like I play
last simulator.
So that's kind of what I'mknown for.

Speaker 3 (01:50):
It's like farming.
Similar truck simulator.

Speaker 4 (01:52):
Okay, that's about it .
I don't go any further thanlike I don't touch like forklift
or like that's no, I nevertouched that one that was.
That was one that never caughtmy interest.
I watched that on YouTube never, never played it, never played
it.

Speaker 2 (02:07):
I don't care about that's Billy's equivalent of
having played it.
He watched a video of it I cangive a review I watched somebody
stream it.

Speaker 4 (02:16):
I can totally review it.
That's exactly how I am, butyeah it's welcome.

Speaker 1 (02:22):
Good to see you in the chat, yeah boys, that's what
I thought you're saying.

Speaker 2 (02:27):
That's a I was vocalizing chat.

Speaker 1 (02:31):
Yeah, so okay.
So you play simulator games, sotruck and farming, and like,
did you ever play Sims, like anyof the basic Sims, or?

Speaker 4 (02:42):
No, I tried to play like one of them.
Try to take out your audiosystem.
Yeah, I know I played the Simsa little bit.
Like me and a couple guys Iplayed games with we tried
playing it for a little bit.
They got more into it than Idid.
Like I like the house buildinglike aspect of it, but like
after that, like I didn't reallycare about and I couldn't spend
thousands of hours justbuilding a house, this wasn't

(03:04):
anything that interested me.

Speaker 1 (03:05):
So like we, none of, I don't think you guys have
never really played like asimulator game before.
Right, I like Sims.

Speaker 2 (03:10):
I played simulator games, but Sims I've never
really what's a?

Speaker 1 (03:15):
what's a simulator game?

Speaker 2 (03:17):
Well, I used to play a lot of like city building
games when I was young, so likeSim City, but also there's a
game called mythology.
That was kind of cool.
There's one, but like stufflike that, where you like kind
of build a city and an economyand stuff, and like roller
coaster, tycoon, you know thingslike that.

Speaker 3 (03:35):
What's the Sid Meyers Something?
Revolution, civilizationcivilization yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:41):
I like that one I played Civ five.
That's probably the last one Iplay.
Is there?
Have they released since then?

Speaker 1 (03:46):
I don't think so.
I think Civ five is the lastone.

Speaker 3 (03:50):
There is.
I think there is.
Really I want to say so?

Speaker 1 (03:53):
Have you guys ever see play Anno like 18 or 16,
1863 or some shit like that?
It's also.
It's also like a sim thing.
So we've never played likewe've only memed on farming
simulator, mainly because weknow you're listening.
So, like, talk to us about likewhat the gameplay is, like,

(04:13):
like why you enjoy, like themindset that you get into while
playing it.
You play it late at night tokind of calm down, or is it like
you have a community of guysthat you play with?
Like what?
Why do you?
Why do you?
Why are you drawn to that kindof game?

Speaker 4 (04:26):
I am drawn to the game because I'm in a farming
community, that's what I'vegrown up around, like that's
that's what I want to be like inthe end, like I might be, like
I want to do this, but likefarming was around me, like
that's just everything I see anddo is farming.

Speaker 2 (04:43):
So you farmed, you farmed and then you farmed.

Speaker 4 (04:47):
Yes, and I play with people who farm IRL and then
come back and just play avirtual.

Speaker 2 (04:52):
See when Billy says I'm farming.
That's a totally differentconcept for his version of
gaming than for yours.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (04:58):
Exactly yeah.
So what would you say attracts?
Is it just the ability to likebe more experiment,
experimentative?

Speaker 2 (05:08):
Experimental.

Speaker 3 (05:08):
Experimental in the farming, like just make up words
here it's also a lot easier tofarm.

Speaker 4 (05:14):
in a video game I can do stuff that yeah, yeah, I can
just if everything goes wrong,your whole livelihood is
destroyed.
Yeah, yeah I know I can like,do terrible in this game and
still be able to, you know,survive.
You know I'm not like, oh well,I have to file for bankruptcy
now.
I can just be like, oh, my farmwent to shit, I can go just

(05:37):
restart.
Or, you know, cheat in money orsomething like that.
You know what's the gameplaylike I mean it's slow, like you
can have different gameplay,like it depends on what you're
wanting to do.
Like like we, like I, have afull, like server that like we
play on and like we're realistic, like we're doing everything
you know, like we got one, likewe set up, like realistic, like

(05:59):
bank loans, so like you got totake it out.
You have interest, you have tohave equity, you have to have
like throw something up there tolike you know you have to like
sacrifice something.
Like if you can't pay it back,you have to give up like what's
your collateral?

Speaker 2 (06:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (06:11):
Yeah, like you have to have this, so it adds a lot
more depth into it and that's alot more fun to do it that way
than just to play it Like.
The play is fun, but like whenyou get more realism, like the
more realistic you can get, well, still being able to just screw
around a lot more fun.

Speaker 2 (06:28):
That sounds stressful as fuck.
I'm not going to lie to you, Idon't know if I really would
enjoy that.

Speaker 1 (06:32):
So it's like you create a character on a server
and then you kind of go go fromthere and or is it like do you
start with like a bucket ofassets or do you have to like
build up to all of those things?

Speaker 2 (06:43):
We got to build up fake credit to get a loan.

Speaker 1 (06:45):
Like you guys have to build a credit score, so you
got to go work at the local youknow retail store Is someone
like our peeing as, like thebank, they do a whole like loan
application and signing.

Speaker 2 (06:56):
We have a question.

Speaker 1 (06:57):
We have a question from the chat as well as.
Are there bosses in farmingsimulator?

Speaker 4 (07:02):
No, no, there's no bosses.
I mean, there's people who likerun their own farm because you
can have your own Like a bosslike the Dust Bowl.

Speaker 1 (07:09):
Yeah, no, the Dust Bowl, congratulations.

Speaker 4 (07:13):
Everyone in the map is here now.
You can't farm, no.

Speaker 2 (07:17):
No rain for the next 10 years.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (07:20):
No, there's nothing like that.
No, there's, it's all.
Yeah, you can pretty much havea successful farming year.

Speaker 2 (07:27):
That's wild.

Speaker 4 (07:29):
Yeah.
So like we we all sat down likediscuss, like how much we want
to start with, you know, becauselike nothing's like set our
real prices, Like it's it's avideo game, so stuff's a little
bit more.
You know, markets are differentthan IRL.
Just to make it easier onanything, Cause like you can get
to like realistic where you'relike, oh well, like you can't do

(07:50):
.

Speaker 3 (07:50):
I can't afford it.

Speaker 2 (07:51):
Yeah, I can't, I literally can't afford anything.

Speaker 4 (07:53):
You know it's like that's not really fun.
You know no one's like, oh man,I can't wait to get on the game
and not be able to affordanything.
You know it's like that.
That's not what draws people tothe video game, you know this
is so realistic.
Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (08:07):
Yeah, I'm living on the streets.
Have you seen that Keen peelmeme where, like he's talking
about how robbing the bank andthen he goes into like detail
how they're going to rob thebank and then they get hired at
the bank and then he's like andthen 30, 40 years later we just
walk right out of there and thenhe goes, motherfucker that's

(08:29):
called a job.

Speaker 4 (08:29):
That's what this is.

Speaker 3 (08:31):
Do you have?
Are you like one of thosepeople that has your, your play
area set up like an actual likerig?
No, I'm like the truckingsimulator.

Speaker 4 (08:41):
I do have like a wheel and pedal and all that for
like those, because that makesthe game a lot more fun to play.
But like, like the Germans arelike really big in the simulator
games, like they're like huge,like they're spending like
thousands of dollars.

Speaker 3 (08:53):
We see those streams of like people and they have
like their house or theirstreaming area.

Speaker 4 (08:57):
It looks like a truck and they're playing Euro truck
simulator and they're just likeyeah, there's people get really
into it and there's people likecater eyes, Do you live?

Speaker 2 (09:05):
stream this.

Speaker 4 (09:07):
No, you should, you should.

Speaker 2 (09:10):
I feel like that's.
There's a market for this.
There is.

Speaker 4 (09:13):
There's a really big like, especially during, like
COVID, like.
That's when, like, a lot ofpeople start picking up the game
.

Speaker 1 (09:19):
Yeah playing it, but is there like skills that you
can learn from playing, like,let's say, if you were a young
guy and you were, like you onlyknew maybe one aspect of farming
, is it like could you get intothe game?
And is it real enough to whereyou could pick up on at least
some of the the language, likesome of the words used in that
industry, to where, like, itwould maybe help you get a job

(09:40):
later on that you just talk thetalk at least and kind of know
what?

Speaker 2 (09:44):
would allow you to fake it.

Speaker 1 (09:46):
Yeah, like you're getting close enough Like I
played a thousand hours offarming.
I am.
I am a soil scientist.

Speaker 4 (09:55):
No, I mean yes and no .
I mean that's not like youmight be able to bullshit your
way through it, like if youplayed enough of it, like you
could probably get somewhere,but like I don't think the game
is realistic enough to be likeoh yeah, well, I can just go out
in the field.
Yeah, yeah you're not going tobe like oh yeah, no, I don't run
a farm because, so you caneconomy in the game is a lot

(10:17):
different.

Speaker 2 (10:18):
Fake your way through an interview and then day one,
like, yeah, like so what do I do?

Speaker 4 (10:23):
Yeah, because like it doesn't show you like running
equipment, I mean it's like W AS D, Correct.
You know, it's like you knowthere's a couple other no no,
surprisingly no there's a littlelaptop or little keyboard that
comes out Exactly, exactly, yeah, no, it's like well, you can
get your way through there, likethere's a lot of like animal

(10:44):
stuff that you can, but youlearn a lot about that.
You know you can be like allright this, you know, going
through the process of likemaking feed and stuff like that
and like and there's people whomake mods, like mods are like
heavy into the game, like PCplaying is a lot better than
like consoles, and all thatbecause of the modding community
.
Like the modding community iswhat makes that game, everything
that it is like, worth it.

Speaker 1 (11:05):
So that I was literally going to lead into
that next topic of like mods,because you were talking about
the economy and as their modswere, like will match spot
prices of like goods in the realeconomy.
Because, like, I feel like thatwould be kind of really cool
where you can do like here's the, here's the soybean based price
and if you're farming that,then like it's going to trend up

(11:25):
and down and maybe even peoplecan use that to like simulate
their own like crops and whatyields they're going to get and
like what they're doing in reallife.
So there's mods like that, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (11:35):
So, like you can, take me out was just like Jesus.
Jesus, yeah, no, that's perfect, yeah, so there's.
there's a lot of mods like thebase game already has, that like
you can sell it, like reallybad, like you can track, you can
see your price fluctuation, soyou can track like if the like
what month in the game, becausethey before there was just a mod

(11:58):
for seasons so you couldactually, like you had to plant
in spring.
You had to.
You know you do all yourpreparation for the crops and
summer and then fall youharvested and then spring air,
wintertime was kind of an offyou know year that if you know
you're doing cattle, you couldstill like one day for one day,
so like all winter you'reactually farming.
No, so it's.
They got to like their own time, like system and all that.
So you can like fast forwardthrough time, like if you're, if

(12:20):
you're not doing cattle oranything like that, you can just
like if you don't have anythingthat's going to be going on
through the wintertime, you canjust fast forward through that.
So if you're not about just sitthere.
Yeah, just fast forward Likeyeah, so if you want to play the
game, shoveling your drivewayyeah, it's like if you just want
to play the game justharvesting, planting, all that
stuff you can.
Hey, just no no, you don't haveto deal with any of that if you

(12:44):
don't want to, which is whatmakes it kind of enjoyable,
because everyone has a differentplaystyle.
Like there's so many differentplaces, there's people who play
the game like, so like reallyarcadey.
Like there's people like runningstuff that just doesn't exist
in real life, because they'relike this, that's how we want to
play the game.
But then there's people like,like my group that we just play,
like we try to get as realisticas we can, was still leaving

(13:07):
some leeway of like all right,it's a video game.
You know you're really going tobore yourself out if you're
going like to real this businessloan was approved at 6%.

Speaker 2 (13:18):
Unlikely.

Speaker 4 (13:19):
Yeah, yeah, you know, but it's like there's still
stuff that we skim out onbecause it's like it's just not
going to be fun.
You know, like no one's like Idon't want to have to take, you
know, a college course to figure.
You know how I'm going to dothis.
You know it's like there's wehave leeways of like all right,
we have like an in game notary,notarized of loan, talk Right

(13:40):
Like yeah, it's like there's apoint where you're like all
right, this is too much, like,this is dumb, you know, like,
but try to keep it real but alsohave fun with the game, because
that's what we're just doingthere.
We're simulator games.
Like I play the game to relax.
Like, because you ask that,like I play that game to relax,
like that.
Come back like there's nothingstressful about it.

(14:01):
Like, like it sounds stressfulthe way I'm making it sound, but
it's like it's really not thatstressful.
Like, yeah, it's like.
Once you kind of figure it out,it's like if you played the
game enough and kind of knowwhat you're doing, it's really
not that bad.
So you just get on there, youplay, you know, you just be as
with your friends for a littlebit and then you go, yeah, yeah,
so I'm, so you can do it.

(14:21):
Like you rent out dedicatedservers, so that's how all works
and I'm just playing withpeople I've just met like, yeah,
like the guy, like two or threeof the guys I play with I just
met like from through like livestreams and you can help farm
their land.
Yeah, yeah.
So because everyone can likecreate their own farm and like
if they're like, hey, you wantto come over, you just switch
over farms.
You just go into like a mini,switch their farm and you just
go farm further, Like whatthey're oh, yeah, yeah, I could

(14:45):
I could totally just ruineverything, like I could just
get on, like just plant just thewrong crap through everything.

Speaker 2 (14:51):
I have a hard time not being an anarchist.

Speaker 4 (14:53):
Like I was playing a game like this.

Speaker 2 (14:56):
I would get kicked out of every server.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (14:59):
Yeah, and they.
There's a big thing like peoplejust go on the like public
servers like they have like nopasswords or mods or anything
like that, and they'll just ruinpeople's farms yeah.
They'll just grief the justever living shit out of this
server and they'll just leaveand like that's just what they
have fun doing.
It's like that's pointless.

Speaker 3 (15:15):
But so do you?
Is it just farming simulator?
Do you play like the truck, orI play the truck as well?

Speaker 4 (15:21):
Airplane simulator the I would do airplane
simulator if I had the money tojust invest into like a full rig
, like that's one of those Icouldn't just like half ass play
, like I'd have to get dedicated.

Speaker 2 (15:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (15:35):
Yeah, I'd have to get like the flight stick, the
throttle, like all that stuff.
Like I couldn't just be like,oh, I'm just going to play, like
I got my controller orsomething like that, like I'd
have to dedicate a lot of moneyinto a setup because I have to
admit I've like the few Eurotrick simulator ones I've
watched.

Speaker 3 (15:51):
I kind of I want to try it like if I had the full
setup.
I'm like that kind of looks fun, it's just driving a car Even
keyboard.

Speaker 4 (15:59):
It's keyboard or controller.
It's still fun, like I putthousands of miles and like Euro
truck simulator on keyboard.
Sam was American trucksimulator.
That's why I played like themost, like playing with keyboard
, like it's just fun.

Speaker 3 (16:12):
Are you able to go across all of America?

Speaker 4 (16:14):
No, so they are releasing them like states, as
DLC.
So that's how they're doing.

Speaker 2 (16:20):
Yeah, so it's like, it's like California would be a
very yeah, yeah, be like anexpert level.
Yeah, so they start the.

Speaker 4 (16:27):
Western part of IA, so they so they started on the
West Coast because they knewthat those are like the bigger
states to like, you know, justrun through and they're like big
and empty and other they didn'thave to do as much.
Now they're starting to like goback and revise, like like
California, like if you runthrough California you can tell
like it was old, like that, likethat map, like the textures are

(16:49):
just like just terrible, likeyou can tell the difference
between what they've just likerecently done versus like the
first stuff they done.
But it's like I think Texas waslike the most expensive one.
I think that was like $15 forlike the state.
But yeah they're?
they're no more than like 11, 12bucks.
So like it isn't till, likelike East Coast, I've already

(17:11):
said they're just going tobundle, like you know, because
like no one's going to pay $5for the main.

Speaker 3 (17:16):
I only want New Jersey, yeah.

Speaker 4 (17:17):
Because it's because it's scaled to like one to 20.
So it's like it doesn't takevery long to get from town to
town.
So it's like you get in themain it's going to be like one
city and that's it.

Speaker 2 (17:29):
Maybe a road.

Speaker 4 (17:29):
You know it's like they're not.

Speaker 2 (17:30):
I was watching this guy playing.
I always look up, like you knowlike where we live, just to see
what, like you know what thatlooks like in world.
He's driving and then and he'slike yeah, we're leaving here
now and he's like we're comingup on San Francisco and I was
like wait a minute.

Speaker 1 (17:46):
It hasn't been that long as it yeah.

Speaker 4 (17:52):
Yeah, yeah, one to 20 scale.
So it's like it kind of messeswith stuff like traffic, like AI
traffic kind of sucks in thegame.
So it kind of like messes withlike on wraps.
But yeah, like on wraps arelike really short, like they're
not like long, like they arereal life.
So it's like you have to likemerge Like you have to like,
just cut off AI like there'slike, and they like don't like

(18:13):
move over for you.
So there's been more, yeah, yeah.
So it's just like there's been.
So many times I've just beensitting there waiting for
traffic to get on my way.
It's.
It's bad, it's and like there's.
What's crazy is like AI trafficis already bad, but there's
like mods out there that likeincrease it by like five to like
make it realistic, and it'slike people have been like stuck

(18:35):
in traffic for like hours.

Speaker 3 (18:37):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 4 (18:38):
Like that's not fun, like that there's a point again
realism and fun, and that's notfun.
It might be fun to somebodyelse, but it's like that's not
fun to me.
Like I don't, I don't go, man,I can't wait to be stuck in
traffic and play for like twohours just sitting in traffic
and then go to bed Like I can'twait to do that.
It's like that's not what Iwant to do.

Speaker 3 (18:57):
Can't wait to drive home from work.
Yep, to drive some more, todrive some more.

Speaker 4 (19:02):
And that was terrible Bunch of traffic.

Speaker 2 (19:03):
There's this guy that entered my algorithm.
I don't remember his name, buthis whole like shtick as he
plays.
He's like this truck simulatorgame and he gets in accidents
and he like makes it lookrealistic.
And then he like, he'll likehit me like, hold on, hold on
now.
And then he like throws himselfall over and like it's so funny

(19:27):
.
But then, like I noticed, likeevery video he uploads is that
I'm like oh, this is the onlything, this guy does, but it is
pretty funny.
Yeah, for sure.
And then he'll like go off acliff and he always acts like
there's like kids in the back orsomething, and he'll be like
I'm so sorry.

Speaker 1 (19:44):
I'm so sorry, as they're like oh my God, we got
to watch a couple of his videos.
He's literally got one, oneangle of content.

Speaker 3 (19:52):
I think I know who you're talking about.
And the funny thing is likebefore all that he was like a
skit artist on Tik Tok and thenhe hard steered into that
because I used to.
I was subscribed to him on TikTok, if it's the same guy and
like I used to watch his skitsbecause they were funny and then
as soon as that happened Idon't see a skits anymore and I
just see like just his crasheson trucks.

Speaker 2 (20:17):
To be fair, he does it good Like he moves.

Speaker 3 (20:21):
Is his Sim Rig like pretty good?
No, it's just him in a chair.

Speaker 2 (20:25):
Oh, he's got the wheel, he's got, the wheel Is he
a green screen or Like he putshimself on, you know, like on
the screen of the game, you knowand like, but it's always and
I've never actually watched afull stream of this guy.
I've only ever seen those clips.
But he's always like.
He'll say something like oh, wegot a shortcut coming up here,

(20:46):
oh God, it's not a shortcut.
And they're like falling, I'mso sorry, I'm so sorry.
And he literally like commits,he throws himself all over.
And they just ex-dead.

Speaker 3 (20:59):
I watched this one stream and I thought it was a
good idea too is he was drunkdriving, so like it's, the only
way you can actually safelydrink and drive is playing Euro
Truck Simulator and drinking.
And it was fun to watch Becausehe like he kept drinking and
he'd get more drunk and he'd getin the accident?

Speaker 1 (21:16):
Was he driving worse?

Speaker 3 (21:16):
Yeah, he was yeah, but it was.
It's amazing and it's likethat's perfect stream content
Like that's hilarious.

Speaker 1 (21:25):
Well, welcome to the podcast.
So, yeah, good, and I'm gladwe're happy to have you.
So we've got our mainline topictonight is this Ubisoft exec
that came out this week, cocktalking about.

Speaker 2 (21:39):
Glad we all voted on this.

Speaker 1 (21:40):
Yeah, did you want something different?
Yeah, I did.

Speaker 2 (21:45):
Actually you guys wouldn't want to talk about it
and actually I don't makeexecutive decisions.

Speaker 1 (21:51):
What the fuck does that mean, set?

Speaker 3 (21:54):
rails this whole conference.

Speaker 2 (21:55):
All right continue Fine.

Speaker 1 (21:58):
If you want, this isn't a democracy Just listen
and listen to what I say.
Ok, that's how we roll.
Thanks, kyle.
I don't even know where to gonow.

Speaker 2 (22:09):
Oh, as if it's so hard to go back to what you were
just saying you know where was.
I.
I guess we can move on If youdon't remember exactly what you
wanted.
That was the plan.

Speaker 1 (22:22):
This Ubisoft exec came out today or this week.
I guess I was talking about howthere needs to be a market
shift in gamers in terms of whatthey like to do, Like to do
right which is they need toshift the market to getting
people comfortable.

Speaker 3 (22:40):
What you all right, sir?
Yeah, I just imagine, after youget your whole thing done, I'm
going to be like, yeah, I mean.

Speaker 1 (22:47):
Yeah, it's pretty cool, that's right.

Speaker 2 (22:49):
I don't have any thoughts.

Speaker 1 (22:52):
All right, you guys want to talk about something
else?
No, you guys are horrible.

Speaker 2 (22:57):
We're just being bad friends.
Yeah, clearly Try to derail you.

Speaker 1 (23:01):
Now I definitely don't remember where I was, but
basically it was this idea wherethey're going to shift
perspective to getting consumersOK with never owning their own
game and kind of like streamingtheir content or having license
or a subscription to basically adatabase to play other games.
And we've talked about this inthe past with like Steam is sort
of functioning as this now, Imean, when you buy a Steam game,

(23:23):
you don't actually technicallyown that game.

Speaker 2 (23:26):
That's one of those things.
Same thing.
If you buy anything onPlayStation Store or Xbox
Marketplace, you don't owndigital games.

Speaker 1 (23:32):
You don't own that copy, and I think this trend, I
mean this kind of made ripplesand noise, but I mean, if you
haven't been paying attentionfor the last what seven, 10
years?
I think this is alreadyhappening.
This is sort of like old news.

Speaker 2 (23:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (23:48):
It was happening because you could see the
reality of what was actuallyshifting.
But now, I mean, high-rankingexecutives are now just coming
out openly talking about it, soit's like it's here, it's been
here.
It really didn't surprise me,but the reaction online was sort
of like this oh my god.
But I mean we're in thisparadigm now.

Speaker 2 (24:11):
I know we've at least talked about this outside of
the podcast, but I feel likewe've even talked about this on
the show before, of how it's oneof those things that you just
become comfortable with.
You don't even realize it'shappening.
It slowly took over and then atfirst we just pissed off about

(24:32):
it and then you get to a pointof just acceptance, so this
whole thing.
I think it's shitty that youdon't ever really own a game
anymore, but, like you said,it's not a surprise.

Speaker 3 (24:45):
And I mean it's like I doubt they'll ever make it to
where it's too drasticallydifferent than what our current
system is, because if they tryand shift it one way to where
it's like, after a couple ofyears you have to buy the game
again.
People would be pissed and thatwouldn't stand.
So I think it might continue toevolve, but I don't think it'll

(25:10):
get any worse than it is now,in my opinion at least.

Speaker 1 (25:15):
Any thoughts?
Yeah, I mean it's here to stay.
Like you guys said, it's hereto stay.
I mean we've been in thisparadigm.
We've been in this sort ofmarketplace.
The thing is it happened withtraditional media formats
already streaming services formovies and TV shows.
It's already happened there.

(25:36):
When was the last time you guysbought a physical DVD?

Speaker 4 (25:40):
Like in that.

Speaker 1 (25:41):
DVD Really.

Speaker 2 (25:42):
This morning.

Speaker 1 (25:44):
Oh nice, sometime Non-portographic though.

Speaker 2 (25:48):
Then I don't know Years.
It's been so long.

Speaker 1 (25:53):
I love to go to a physical store.

Speaker 2 (25:56):
I still shop out, yeah.

Speaker 1 (26:01):
Pretty recently you bought one.

Speaker 3 (26:03):
Yeah, I mean, I know there's more recent, but it's
like across the Spider-Verse,I've bought that one.
Yeah really Racial CD,interstellar, but even that.

Speaker 2 (26:15):
Those are old.

Speaker 3 (26:17):
Well, I mean there's more recent, but I just can't
think of them.

Speaker 1 (26:20):
But even that though, Like if you were to take that
disk and put it in your computerto save the files on your
computer, it won't let you dothat.
It's encrypted.

Speaker 3 (26:28):
Because that's what the commercial used to tell us
you wouldn't download a car.

Speaker 2 (26:34):
There's not a victimless crime.

Speaker 3 (26:36):
Yeah, you wouldn't download a car, but you bought
the movie.

Speaker 1 (26:39):
You just don't own the right.
You own the movie in thatmedium, on disk.
You don't own the lot you don'town.
Yeah or no the disk.
You can't transfer that mediumto another digital storage
device.
You don't own the rights to dothat.

Speaker 3 (26:57):
What you might be able to you can.
You have to do a lot of work towriggle, I remember because
that I used to.
You might not be able to dothat, but I can.

Speaker 1 (27:06):
I used to use this program called Handbrake that
would grab all the files.
Because what they would do is,if you tried to download them,
it would desync the movie.
The audio wouldn't line up, thechapters would be out of order.
It was a hodgepodge, butHandbrake would kind of like rip
it and put it in a seamlesstrack.
It wasn't always perfect, butit worked.

Speaker 3 (27:26):
What need did you have to do that?

Speaker 1 (27:30):
I wanted to have DVD If I'm flying, if I was going on
a plane or something like that,and I want to have four or five
.
He had a massive undergroundnetwork of client-stributing.
I was distributing Toy Story 2at a rate that never was seen
before 10 years after he cameout.

(27:56):
No, the perfect use case was wewould have DVDs of TV series and
I would want to put it on mylaptop for a flight or something
for travel, and that was thefirst time that I ever seen this
.
We're talking back in 2011,when they started encrypting
these disks and so you couldn'tjust plug it into your DVD

(28:16):
driver.
You had to have the physicaldisk.
How many times do you buy avideo game?
You still have to have thephysical disk.
Even though the whole thing issitting on your PlayStation or
whatever, you have to have thatdisk in there.
No, well, what do you mean?

Speaker 3 (28:34):
no, 98% of my games are fully digital.

Speaker 1 (28:40):
Right, but when you had games in the past that were
on a disk you do the wholetransfer onto your thing.
You have to have the disk inthere, Even though it's not even
running off the disk, becausethe disk read speeds are too
slow.
It's a whole thing exists onyour PlayStation, but you have
to have the physical copy of thedisk in your.
That's been a thing sinceforever the seventh generation

(29:01):
which was like PS3, xbox 360.

Speaker 2 (29:04):
Before then, like PS2 , Xbox, games actually used to
just be read off the disk.
That's why you could just popit in and play.
And then I remember, when PS3era came out, I'll get a game
and I'm like wait a minute.
Why do I have to wait fivehours?
To play this.
This is absurd.
I just bought it and we hadterrible internet when it was

(29:26):
like, I guess, ok for the time,but compared to what you get now
, it was atrocious to be able todo anything.

Speaker 1 (29:34):
Well, and that's why I was never even convinced that
the disk itself even containedthe game, because you ended up
downloading, like this massivefile, yeah, and it was like, is
there even hardly anything onthe physical disk itself, or do
you just, are you just, is itlike a key to then download the
game and their shop or whatever,I don't know.

(29:56):
Super weird.

Speaker 2 (29:57):
Yeah, I was confused too when you first said, like if
you download, if you buy a game, do you still have to put the
disk in.
I was like I know that youhaven't been a console boy in a
while, but that's.

Speaker 1 (30:08):
you have to go and find a physical CD and write the
name of the game on it.
I have to put a CD in Now andthen that awkward time between,
like you know, I would say, likethe PlayStation 4 days, where
you really you had that.
Well, the PlayStation 4actually had a pretty decent
store, like maybe it was a PS3days where, like their store,
you really, I don't know, it'skind of clunky, you know it was
that awkward time where things,some things were digital but not

(30:30):
it was probably towards the endof the seventh generation's
shelf life where, like you,started to really just buy
things digitally.

Speaker 2 (30:40):
I still remember the very first game I ever bought
digitally was Mass Effect.
I'm not even kidding, becausethe first Mass Effect didn't
come out on PlayStation 3originally, it was only on Xbox
360.
And then, so the only way thatyou could play Mass Effect at
that time was when the secondgame came out.

(31:00):
Then they finally released thefirst game on PS3, but digital
only and so I bought that,downloaded it, and I remember my
mind was blown.
I was like what?
I don't even need a disc forthis.
It's insane.
I own this game Like 2009 orsomething.

Speaker 3 (31:14):
Okay, but then the funny thing is now, with the
transition from disc to digital,like you buy collector's
editions like Cyberpunk overthere, I got a steel case
without a CD.

Speaker 2 (31:28):
Yeah, did.
Collector's editions don't havethe discs now.

Speaker 1 (31:32):
And they didn't change the copy the box for it,
because there's still a slot forit.

Speaker 3 (31:36):
No, yeah, there's still a slot, Like as if I were
to get one.
It's like you can buy a secondcopy at the store and then you
put the disc in here.

Speaker 1 (31:43):
Yeah, totally the Witcher 3.
You know just a blank copy.
That is so weird.
I have seen that a couple oftimes and it's the silliest
thing it's like did they investin a company that makes those
cases?
Steel box or something or like.
What is the?

Speaker 2 (32:01):
just the nostalgia of seeing that CD ring A lot of
people that they like.
They like looking at what theyown and so they have like
they're very meticulous abouthow they they put their like
lineup as far as like their discholders on their shelf how it
looks a certain way.

(32:22):
So there's a whole communityaround like collectors that do
that.
Last time I bought a physicalcopy of anything was probably
Dark Souls 3.
I bought the collector'sedition of that with the
physical disc, which is where wegot that Ashen Knight up there
next to what's her name from theother.

Speaker 3 (32:40):
Yeah, so what?
What game do you guys own themost copy of?
Or do you think you've boughtthe most copies of?

Speaker 1 (32:47):
Oh God, Guild Wars one, because I bought it for all
my friends here recently.
That's true.

Speaker 2 (32:54):
I know for a fact.
We've been on.
This was years ago when wetalked about this in the podcast
.
But I bought Witcher 3 anabsurd amount of times, so I
bought it.
I bought the physical copy ofWitcher 3.
I bought it once and then Ilost it and so I bought it again
.
And I bought the physical copyof again instead of buying it
digitally.
So that's two times.

(33:16):
And then I bought it a thirdtime.
I bought it digitally becauseif I ever lose this again, I
want to have it digitally.
So I bought it the third timeand then I bought it separately
For a reason I can't remembernow.
I for some reason, I bought itseparately.

(33:36):
I think it was like an accountthing where I got locked out of
my old PlayStation account.
Like I need it and I wanted toplay it really bad, so I bought
it again.
And then I bought it on theswitch.
So I bought it and it was fullprice every single time.
It wasn't the wisest decision,money wise, but but I bought it

(33:56):
a lot of times have you boughtany?

Speaker 4 (33:59):
Not that I know I can't think off the top of my
head of what I bought the mostcopies of.

Speaker 3 (34:06):
I think the only.
I mean Mass Effect and the MassEffect Legendary Edition.
I those are.
I don't really count that.
But I did buy Cyberpunk twice.
Really why?
Because I couldn't wait for theCollectors Edition.
Because the stupid thing aboutit, you know, it was empty steel

(34:28):
case but the the code, thedownload code, was in the
Collectors Edition box and so Ihad to wait for that to get to
my house and I was like, oh, Idon't want to wait.

Speaker 1 (34:40):
Seriously.

Speaker 2 (34:41):
Yes, and then, you ended up waiting anyways for
them to patch it.

Speaker 3 (34:46):
So and then our chat said Half Life.

Speaker 1 (34:49):
How did they bum that up?

Speaker 3 (34:52):
That's how most Collectors Editions are, though,
yeah.

Speaker 1 (34:55):
You can't play at launch.

Speaker 2 (34:56):
Not if you buy the physical.
It's stupid.

Speaker 3 (34:59):
No God of War.
I did that too because the samething about the Collectors
Edition the code is in the box,so it's being shipped to you and
I'm like I don't want to waitfor that.

Speaker 2 (35:10):
I've only got half life.
I've only bought that once.

Speaker 1 (35:14):
I just that pisses me off.

Speaker 3 (35:17):
It's.

Speaker 1 (35:17):
You're telling me that, like you're sure they
didn't send you that code.

Speaker 3 (35:21):
Yes, like when you order it via email.

Speaker 1 (35:23):
Yeah, secured link.
You can't pre populate it,nothing, nothing.
You have to wait and of courseit gets there like post launch
five days later.
Yeah, dude, that, that reallyirks me.
Yeah, that actually irks me.
It's stupid.
I think this doesn't happen onP.

(35:44):
I'm trying to think like oh no,because the master race.
I feel like I don't know,because, like, when you get,
like you can pre load your gameson steam, but but that's
obviously not a collector'sedition.
Like, to buy the collectorsedition you have to go, probably
through, like the publisher orwhatever their website, right,
so you're not buying it throughthese.

Speaker 2 (36:07):
Well, sometimes there are special editions through
third parties, like there's likebelieve it or not, I forget
which game it was I bought, butit was like if I bought it at
Walmart there was a specialWalmart edition.
Collectors like that kind ofthing Can you buy collectors
editions from steam.

Speaker 1 (36:23):
I know you can get like the upgraded version, but
can you actually buy like if itcame with, like a collectible or
something like that?
Does that come with?

Speaker 4 (36:31):
No, so you like Far Cry.
Well, I guess that Far Crydidn't come out to on steam,
like the newest one didn't comeout there.
But no, like usually you canonly buy like the, like the
premium, like they're likestandard or like the the classic
.

Speaker 2 (36:44):
Yeah, the play five days early edition.

Speaker 4 (36:46):
Yes, well, you can't you always think, almost always
have to go through like theiractual, like website, like, if I
want, like the Far Cry six,like the Lux or like the
collectors edition.
Yeah, I had to go throughUbisoft.

Speaker 2 (36:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (37:00):
And there's no, I kind of get that off.
Steam, steam only offers, likeI said, like the like standard
digital stuff like that.
Yeah, you can't actually, whichkind of sucks, being kind of
nice.

Speaker 1 (37:10):
PC average race.

Speaker 4 (37:12):
Yeah, yeah, have fun playing an unoptimized game.

Speaker 2 (37:17):
All right yeah.

Speaker 1 (37:19):
It's a poor, everything's a poor thing man.
Well, speaking of video games,what about?

Speaker 2 (37:27):
that what we've been talking about.

Speaker 1 (37:30):
Like I've seen.
I've seen some noise ofDiablo's pushing this, and of
course, it's always going to bethe big boys that do this, but
they want to see Diablo's a bigboy.

Speaker 3 (37:39):
Yes, it's blizzard I know, I haven't heard anything
about it.

Speaker 2 (37:43):
Okay, it's not been on my radar.
Yeah, as we sit in front of it.

Speaker 1 (37:51):
It.
They're toying with the idea ofselling their expansion at a
hundred bucks.
And there's this.
Yeah, it is warm in here.
Thank you for doing that.

Speaker 2 (38:02):
Sweat over here, thank you.

Speaker 1 (38:05):
They've been toying with this idea of, like a
hundred dollar expansion.
How long do you guys think howclose are we to getting games
that are just standard out ofthe box hundred bucks, because I
know that, like a lot of thesegames, they always sell like
some kind of upgraded versionthat gets you to that hundred
bucks.
But like how long before westart seeing base games just

(38:25):
starting at, you know, 99, 99.
?

Speaker 3 (38:27):
Well, they've, they've already done with, like
PS5.
It's like the average new gameis 70.
70, yeah, is the starting price.

Speaker 2 (38:37):
So I think, as inflation goes up, I'd say
honestly, I could see ithappening within like five years
.

Speaker 4 (38:46):
Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 2 (38:48):
Yeah, I think so.

Speaker 1 (38:49):
I feel like, I feel like games.
I was going to shout but like Ifeel like games have been like
relatively cheap, like they havenot kept up with inflation for
years.

Speaker 3 (39:00):
Yeah, they stayed, they stayed 60.

Speaker 2 (39:02):
It was 60 for your wife, like almost 20 years.

Speaker 1 (39:05):
Yeah, and like that was kind of shocking in and of
itself.
So it's about time they movedup.

Speaker 3 (39:12):
But here's also the thing is, I think I think
there's also possibility thatthe price won't increase if we
keep going with like microtransactions and expansions and
stuff.

Speaker 2 (39:22):
That's true, because consoles themselves.

Speaker 3 (39:26):
Most of them, I think all of them they sell it to you
at a loss.

Speaker 4 (39:33):
The hardware.

Speaker 3 (39:34):
The hardware.
So like why can't?
Games might evolve into thesame thing, where they're
selling it to you at a loss, butthey make up for it with micro
transactions.

Speaker 1 (39:45):
Yeah, see, and like I know this is like what I want,
but who gives a shit about whatI actually want?
But I feel, like Elden Ring, Iwould actually feel 100%
comfortable spending $120 onthat game because I know that
there's not like an in game,it's a complete game, right,
like there's no in gametransaction shop, like it is

(40:08):
what it is.
There's no live service.
There's going to be DLC, likethat comes out.
It's just sort of that's theprice for a game.
That's going to be live service.
Where I'm kind of becausethere's games that, like always
nowadays it goes beyond justcosmetics.
Right, there will be qualitylife things.
There will be things where it'slike time skipper, yeah,

(40:28):
exactly, Some something.
It's like you can spend 500hours doing this, or for $3, you
know, and so like.
For those games.
I wouldn't necessarily, unlessit was the title that was super
deeply passionate about.
I wouldn't want to see that,you know, priced at the same
thing.
Like I don't feel like gamesshould be all just like oh, 70

(40:50):
is the standard, let's make it70 bucks or whatever it is.
I feel like, depending on whatyou're offering, like just like
any other product in the world,if you have different features
like hey, there's no in gameshop, okay, baldur's Gate, I'll
give you 100 bucks.
There's no in game shop, I'llyou know, I'll buy it at that
level.
And then you've got games thatlike Diablo or any kind of live
service games where it's like,okay, I'll spend 30 bucks, with

(41:13):
the expectation of spendinganother 30 bucks or whatever it
is, I don't know it's.
I feel like it's kind of crazythat we just pin one price and
everybody just sort of releasesat that level.

Speaker 3 (41:23):
Well, but I feel like that's kind of tied to because,
if you look at like the moviemarket, right, the movie has an
average runtime and video games,even though there is a
variation of time for completion, you can definitely probably
look at, have an average ofprobably like 30 hours, and it

(41:45):
would be my guess it might beeven I don't know what it would
be but like.
So I almost want to say the $60based on that 30 average, and
then you would have to get sometype of rating board to be able
to be like well, this game isactually a 120 hour game, so we
can up it to $80.
And because I don't think wecould trust a development

(42:08):
company to be like trust me,this game is $120 worth, they
would do that to all their games.
Call of duty would do that.

Speaker 1 (42:16):
Like that's what I'm saying Like that they all
seemingly just converge on thisone price point.
You go to the store there's youcan find 12 different prices
for 12 different types oftoothpaste.
All of them do basically thesame thing and have, but some of
them have, different features.
This one's whitening, thisone's extra fresh breath for
longer, or whatever you know.
Like, each one have differentfeatures.

(42:37):
So I feel like, I feel like youcould, I think the gaming
industry is mature enough atthis point to have deviations in
price based on what you'reoffering.
You know, like the averageconsumer of a video game I feel
like at this point is is youknow what you're buying.
Like it's not like you're theit's a saturated market in the

(42:58):
sense.
Like you've got the people whoknew gamers coming online
probably have parents who aregamers and you know it's not
like this kid in a basementthat's never seen a TV before,
all of a sudden getting thislike you know what I mean.
Like it's a mature audience.
I feel like they can reallyoffer a wide spectrum of prices
based on the product.
It just seems so strange to methat they're like oh, we can get

(43:19):
away with a 70, now Everybodygoes 70.
Oh, we're going to go away witha 100, or teasing that, because
Blizzard will tease it, they'llrelease it at that, and then
everybody will sort of fall suit.
Why not strategically sort ofplay around with your, your
offering?
Maybe there's a reason.

Speaker 3 (43:34):
I would say it's, it's kind of tied to how we view
movies, because movies are allthe same price.
I mean, you know there'scollectors, additions and stuff,
along with music too, like itis strange that certain bits of
media have standard priceaccepted, like imagine if you
went to the store and TaylorSwift's new album was like 70

(43:54):
and then you looked over andsomebody else was like $10.
Yeah, it's like that'd be weirdit is odd.

Speaker 2 (44:02):
There's not.
I mean the entertainment.
I guess the song gets lumpedinto the entertainment industry,
but it's not.
Like you know, like you said,like you know, like all cars are
not built the same you don'tbuy all cars for the same price
Games are not built the same.
You can't tell me that you getthe same amount of enjoyment out
of, for instance, a game likeBaldur's Gate and then a game
that takes five hours to beat,and it's the same price.

(44:23):
You know it's weird.

Speaker 3 (44:26):
So it is definitely.
I wonder if there's like acommission or committee that's
like video game prices and youjust stay at 60.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (44:40):
It probably comes down to the music industry.
I bet you there's like ahandful of publishing companies
or like record companies thathave all the reach, but, like I
bet you, there's probably threeor four big players that
probably make up a massive chunkof that that industry, and they
probably do have these closeddoors conversations of like well

(45:00):
, you know we have these titleswith this brand recognition.
You know whether we sell for ahundred or we sell for 80, you
know we, some people won't buyit because it's a hundred but
it's going to basically be awash.
you know our analytics say it'sgoing to be a wash, as long as
it's a decent game or whatever.
Like I guarantee they have allthe models for this, so it'll
just be interesting to I don't.

(45:20):
It's kind of interesting thatit hasn't evolved more than it
you know it's funny is there'sactually no.

Speaker 2 (45:25):
According to a quick little Google research, there's
no.
There's nothing regulating this, it's just.

Speaker 1 (45:33):
They're just all converging, all the published.

Speaker 2 (45:35):
All the publishers have just kind of has a silent
agreement on what works best.

Speaker 4 (45:42):
Huh.

Speaker 1 (45:43):
So so victory says aren't destiny DLCs more than
$60?

Speaker 2 (45:48):
I could be wrong.
No, I don't think so.
I never maybe more than 60.

Speaker 1 (45:51):
Like light fall was like 30.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (45:54):
Maybe if you buy like the bundles where you like,
yeah, you buy all out of the oldone or something.

Speaker 1 (45:59):
Yeah, I don't think they're more than 60.
Like I've played I've playedMMOs and those when, like those
expansions, loss or releasethose ones costs like basically
a full, they are basically afull game, Like the game
launched it I think it was toowhat like when it came out it

(46:19):
was like 50 or 60 bucks fortheir game and it was like 50 or
60 bucks for their expansions.
And then, of course, you get8,000 gems if you order their
$100 version which is 50% offand you can use that for in-game
golden items and like wow.

Speaker 2 (46:36):
Oh boy.

Speaker 1 (46:37):
Yeah, yeah, but it's also free to play.
And then there's like thiswhole dynamic there and yeah,
yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't knowLike it.
To me, it just I feel like wehave such a mature audience.
There's so much informationaround games, right, like
whether it's like a reviewer orpeople talking about the game,
or content around likepre-launch of the game, that

(46:59):
people really know what they'rebuying.
I feel like if companies reallywanted to squeeze out even more
revenue, I feel like they couldreally pinpoint and figure out
like what better pricing.

Speaker 3 (47:10):
I mean, I think that's what they're trying to do
now with like PS5 $70 games.
They're kind of like, well,let's see how much we can
stretch it, and people willstill buy.
And you know, they're testingit.
That's, I mean, the whole videogame.
That's what they're alwaysdoing.
They're always testing elder,elder skulls.
Was it oblivion with this?
The horse armor?

Speaker 2 (47:29):
Yeah, that was the first.
That was the first microtransaction that became like a
controversy.

Speaker 1 (47:34):
Everybody blames it.

Speaker 2 (47:35):
Was it like $5?
Something crazy.

Speaker 1 (47:37):
Maybe I think it was, but it was.
It was like more successfulthan like any other title that
year, so like it made that alonemade more money than like any
other game that releasing,because everybody that owned
that game basically bought it.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (47:56):
And so you're constantly seeing trying to push
the envelope and seeing how farthey can get, and then usually
somebody takes a little bit toofar in public out, you know,
outlashes, and then it comesback.
But I think that's just whatthey're.
They're going to end up doingwith video game prices too is
just kind of trying to push itand see what's acceptable for

(48:16):
the masses yeah.

Speaker 2 (48:17):
What's that guy's name?
I'm forgetting it.
He used to be a developer forBlizzard and then he like Bobby
Kotick.

Speaker 1 (48:26):
No, he was a CEO.

Speaker 2 (48:28):
Bobby K, and then he, he also worked for the
government for a while as ahacker, but he's really.
He blew up recently.
He's got like the long hair,deep voice.

Speaker 1 (48:39):
Oh, pirate software, Something like that.

Speaker 2 (48:41):
So he was talking about when he was working on WoW
.
He and his team spent an insaneamount of hours developing.
I forget what it was.
It was like just like a questpath or something that they
patched into it.
Um, he talked about all themanpower it took and all the
like, um, the time it took todevelop everything.

(49:03):
And he's like guess how muchmoney you made.
And he listed it and it wassomething super minuscule by
comparison.
And then he's like and then, incomparison, here is uh, this
skin is like it took all of uh,maybe 24 hours to develop.
You have so much money this mayhit.
And it was like literally likesomething crazy, like 7,000%

(49:25):
more than what the, the like, um, how much that development was.
And he's like and you wonder whythese companies are putting
money into things like this andnot quality.

Speaker 3 (49:38):
I was just going to say didn't you send that in the
discord Cause?
I swear I watched.
I think you sent that videofirst.

Speaker 2 (49:43):
That guy had some of the best takes ever and like
video game culture and awareness.

Speaker 1 (49:48):
Yeah, um, you've you played warlord craft at all?
You did, yeah, what it like.
How many hours do you think yougot into it?

Speaker 4 (49:59):
No more than like maybe 40.

Speaker 1 (50:02):
Oh, like, yeah, like, I, yeah like.

Speaker 4 (50:04):
I like cause my brother is like the only reason
I played that game.

Speaker 1 (50:09):
How many hours do you think your brother has A
thousand a thousand.

Speaker 4 (50:13):
I mean he's gotta be pushing Like yeah he's been,
cause he's been playing for along time.
He's got at least 10,000 plusand that's like taking like big
breaks from that game.

Speaker 1 (50:26):
Well, I think the example, you just laid out that
I think it's pirate software.
I think that might be his name,or pirate games or something
like that.
I wish he streamed at realhours.
He streams at like 2am to 8am.
It's ridiculous he does notstream in human hours.
I think he's maybe EU orsomething, I don't know, but he
sounds like an American.
But like that example isliterally the horse armor

(50:49):
example.
It takes like a fraction.
It's not content, they're not.
It's just like a piece of artthat they can then sell it and
throw on a you know a skin andpeople chuck money at it, but
then, like Kyle said, like ateam of people working on
something, it just doesn't havethe same ROI you know, but.

(51:10):
But it's a balancing scale,right.
You can't just have allcosmetics and it all pays out
equally, because you need thecontent to then have the.
You know, the value of a gamelike World of Warcraft is in its
player base, right, if nobodyplayed World of Warcraft then
nobody would want to get in.
That's kind of a weird example,but obviously nobody would want

(51:31):
to get into it.
The fact that World of Warcraftis still successful is because
it is successful, right.
The downfall to any MMO or anylike online game is when the
community starts to fall off.
People go, oh, dead game andthen they leave and abandon it
and the numbers sort of crash.
World of Warcraft sort ofalways had that like really
stable large player base andthat's exactly and that's the

(51:52):
value of the player base.
So you come out with a skin andthese skins are like not
fucking cheap Diablo four, likesome of those armor skins, like
the necromancer had a reallysick one, like a death one, like
a death knight kind of, like askeleton one.
It was like $25 just for theskin and that was like.
That was just like is thatnormal?

(52:14):
Like I would never buy that.
I'm not the type of person, I'mnot that market.
Well, I think that's justblizzard misunderstanding, like
Fortnite.

Speaker 3 (52:25):
In my opinion, the reason Fortnite gets away with
that, like their skins, isbecause the game's free Diablo
wasn't free, no, and so it'slike you can't charge $25 for a
skin.

Speaker 1 (52:39):
The versus Fortnite.
How many people do you thinkbought?

Speaker 3 (52:41):
it.
Oh, I'm sure, I'm sure that you.

Speaker 1 (52:45):
Was it more than what they paid the artist to draw it
up or create it?
Probably.

Speaker 3 (52:49):
I mean, like you know , any type of mobile game.
Like I play this Dragon Ballmobile game, I know for a fact
it's supported by Wales.
Like people like me who justgive it a few dollars every now
and then.
They don't care about me.
It's these.
It's these rich people that,like, dump thousands into it.

(53:10):
And that's same with Diablo.
It's by Wales.
Yeah, that's what they'recalled.

Speaker 2 (53:15):
I've never You've never heard of the term whale.

Speaker 1 (53:16):
No, I guess I'm not you need to go wailing.
So it's like you get like youraverage player base let's say
the value of each customer islike a dollar.
Then you have whales that likethey'll spend $10,000.
That's the people you're tryingto target in your games and not
me yeah, a whale, and so, likeyou want, to you want to do?
what if you create content thatonly serves the whales?
You don't give a shit about theaverage player base.

(53:37):
It's those 10 20 people thatare supporting the shit out of
your game, like Diablo immortalit's like a handful of those
people that have dumped that.
One guy dumped over a hundredgrand into the game and then the
next season.

Speaker 3 (53:49):
He was irrelevant, like it's like a trust fund,
baby, that just says too muchmoney, you get one.

Speaker 1 (53:53):
or you get a.
You get five or six of those ina player base of a million,
whatever.
It's not unreasonable to thinkabout.

Speaker 2 (54:01):
I'd like to imagine that obviously I would.
Now I don't have the capabilityof dumping that kind of money
into something.

Speaker 1 (54:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (54:09):
I'd like to imagine that if I was, like you know,
worth a lot of money, like 300million, that I wouldn't be like
that.
But I know for a fact that I'mthe kind of person that I'd be
like and I would do that becausethat's how I am.
On a much smaller scale ofgames already, where I'm like

(54:30):
I'm like, oh, this game's kindof fun, oh, that's a cool skin
click, oh, that's kind of click.
And I'm like, wait a minute,what have I done?
Is Kyle?

Speaker 1 (54:36):
a whale.

Speaker 2 (54:38):
No, he's a baby whale .

Speaker 1 (54:39):
No one ever told him that term because they didn't
want to they didn't want to sendme Kyle's a narwhal If I had
the money.

Speaker 2 (54:45):
Baby whale.

Speaker 3 (54:46):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (54:47):
If I had the money, I'd be a whale.

Speaker 1 (54:51):
Do you buy cosmetics in games?

Speaker 4 (54:54):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I will like if it's
something like cool that I thinklooks cool, I will.
But like I'm not like justbuying anything, like I don't
just see, like if I play it.
Like when I was like Fortnitewas a big thing, like I think I
only bought one skin and I waslike that looks cool, but I
wasn't like all about like, oh,I have to have every week or
month, whatever it was that theyreleased a new one, like I

(55:14):
didn't have to have it, like Icould just get one and be like,
alright, I'm pretty content.
So it's just because I don'tthink Fortnite deserved my money
and I think Epic Games deservedmy money other than that one
time for miniscule amounts ofmoney.

Speaker 3 (55:28):
Yeah, because I mean you got the game originally for
free, because I did the samething for night.
I bought the Venom skin when Istarted playing it, but I really
have no desire to buy anyothers, like I got a cool skin
now.

Speaker 4 (55:39):
Yeah yeah, that's exactly how I was.
I was like alright, I got coolskin, I think it looks cool.
That's all I need.
If I find another one I think Ineed, then I'll buy it but I
don't have to have every singleone that comes out that week.
Yeah, but the whales.

Speaker 1 (55:51):
It's always about, like I think, matching that
value.
Like if I play I don't buycosmetics, I will buy anything
that gives me like a quality.
I'm a big quality life guy.
I will spend money on stuffthat makes my life easier
because I don't like repetitiveaction.
I will not play a game that ispay to win.
So if there's any kind of likeboosting or like a luck based

(56:14):
system that you can buy thesecharges that increase your luck
to get a better crap, nope, Iwill not play those games at all
.

Speaker 3 (56:20):
Does Diablo have an XP boost?

Speaker 1 (56:23):
No, I don't think so.
They have their premium battlepass gets you through the battle
pass faster, but I don't thinkit.
The battle pass.
I actually don't even know whatthe battle pass unlocks, to be
honest, man, yeah, I totallystopped playing before season

(56:44):
one.
I need to go back.
I heard the new season isactually gonna be kind of fun.
People are really excited aboutit.
So we'll see.
But as far as, like I'm not, Idon't think I'm gonna buy any,
unless they have a drop of firetrailer yeah, and you're sold.

Speaker 2 (56:58):
This is the greatest trailer.

Speaker 1 (57:00):
I have ever seen.
Did you listen to that episodewhen we talked about that?
I was, so I had no idea what Inever played Diablo.
I saw their cinematic trailer,which usually those things go
right, I don't care about this.
I watched this setting and Iwas like this fucking game is
incredible.
This looks like so cool.
It's like this super fantasylike devil dark, and I was like

(57:21):
this looks like a fun game.
And then it was like Diablo 4and I'm like, oh okay, I've
heard of the Diablo series andthen I got really hyped for it
for whatever reason on acinematic trailer that is like
the that is so foreign to me.
But it worked.
Man marketing it got you, itdid, and it was a fun game.
I enjoyed the hell of it.
It was.
I got mine.
I put 250 hours into it.

Speaker 2 (57:44):
It was.
I haven't.
I had actually nothing againstthe game, it's just not really
my thing.
So once I beat it I was kind oflike.

Speaker 3 (57:52):
You did the story.
Yeah, I'm not about the theendless grind that like some
people love.
I get tired of it.

Speaker 1 (58:00):
Well, so you got.
What's interesting to me is youplayed it to the story.
You beat the story, basicallywith Kyle, and you both stopped
playing pretty much, yeah right.
So to me that was when the gamegot good, because that's when
you finally had enough points toreally start specking into
different creative builds andyou had enough items and you

(58:21):
could jump world tears well Ilike that that I know Kyle
doesn't like that stuffgenerally because he's like
starter weapon.
Good enough, I'll figure thisshit.
I'll bring it with you but likefor you, like that doesn't the
build diversity, kind of likereally figuring out what works.

Speaker 3 (58:36):
I agree I I did enjoy .
I was really looking forward tothe bear gone board, but the
part that killed it for me wasthe loot grind, like hearing
that I need this specific armorand it only has like a 2% chance
to drop them like and thentrying to get it and you know it
, just it got.
The loop was what killed it forme.

(58:59):
The loop loop versus.
I was excited about the builddiversity and kind of doing that
, but it was just I needed thisspecific set of armor and I
didn't have it and I couldn'tget it well.

Speaker 1 (59:12):
So that's if you're like fall.
So I see I understand thatbecause like, if you're trying
to follow a guide to a T and itsays, hey, this is the optimal,
and you're trying to achievethat, that can be very tedious
because then you kind of justblock out everything that you're
getting along the way.
But the way I think it'ssupposed to be played, like as
an ARPG, is you basically kindof fall in love with the loot

(59:38):
that you're given as youprogress, so like maybe it's not
the most optimal piece, youknow.
And like there's what do theycall those like ultra rare drops
like this, the uber, uber,lilith style drops that like
you're basically never going tobe able to get and so don't

(59:58):
expect it.
But that is like best sinceslot gear.
But like part of the journey forme that was so much fun was
after I do a dungeon or after Ido whatever like some open world
content.
I would go back and I wouldlook at all the golds that I got
, or the ancient armor what dothey call?
It was like ancient and thenlegend.
What was the third tier?
I remember legendary orsomething like that.

(01:00:18):
But you would look at that gearand go, oh, this has a better
stat but it's worse than this.
But because I have that, now Ican change this back on my thing
, so like I can now have ahigher channeling magic.
So now I can you know, I cantake this piece of equipment off
and slot this in, because Idon't need that much crit damage
, because I get the crit damagefrom this item.
So, like you're, you're gettingthe loot and you're kind of

(01:00:40):
constantly adjusting thisalgorithm, like okay, because I
did that dungeon, I'm now 1%better.
Okay, I'm gonna do again, I'mgonna 1% better.
You're constantly playing thatgame of, like using the loop
that does sound like hell, butsee, I do think yeah that's so
much fun for me.

Speaker 3 (01:00:57):
I think it's fun, but I don't think it's a tune to me
, because I personally wouldhave liked something with, like,
higher loot drop rates.
I I felt like when I reachedthe end and I was trying to
level up, trying to, you know,finally open up my build, all
the loot I was getting was atsuch a small improvement that it

(01:01:21):
was just it didn't feel worthit to me.
And then versus like, forexample, the only other game I
played that like deeply destiny,right, destiny you would get it
was easy to find exotics noteasy, but like you had a
guaranteed way of the strangerand then the exotics were huge

(01:01:43):
gameplay, shifting weapons orarmor, like it was drastic
changes and it wasn't as hard toget them as it is in Diablo and
so I guess the distance betweenme getting that epic loot was
too long.
In Diablo versus destiny, I feltlike had a better.
I didn't feel like I wassmashing my head against a wall

(01:02:05):
without getting something goodhmm well, you also do.

Speaker 1 (01:02:09):
You never got to world tier 3, did you so like?

Speaker 3 (01:02:13):
I went, yeah, I went to it with you.
I you had to be there with me.
And then you leave and you know, finish the dungeon is me got
no, no world.

Speaker 1 (01:02:22):
So I think we beat the campaign on world tier 2.

Speaker 2 (01:02:25):
Yeah but then world tier 3.

Speaker 1 (01:02:27):
You had to do that like unique done.
Yeah, we did you.
Yeah, we did that with you okay.

Speaker 2 (01:02:32):
I mean helped he speed ran it yeah and then he's
like it's all about guys you gotto keep up with me.
Dylan, I are fighting the firstfour, really just blows past
them and he's like fun a boss.
They're at 25%, like, okay,like.

Speaker 3 (01:02:50):
I'm like a mile away from where you are right now.

Speaker 2 (01:02:55):
Get that little XP ring, alright well, I guess he
beat the boss, did you.

Speaker 1 (01:03:02):
But when you got to world tier 3, did you do any
like, did you pretty much stop.

Speaker 3 (01:03:07):
Then I tried dungeons , but I just I felt like the
loot I was getting was manbecause when you were mental it
was.
It was just numbers versus.
I wanted play style changing.
Oh, that's a loot I like, likedestiny, like exotic.
You get one and it's like ittotally change.

Speaker 1 (01:03:25):
It makes you know the final or it's building,
defining it's build.
The first is, I felt like 1%.

Speaker 3 (01:03:30):
It was a lot longer until I got to that point in
Diablo and I was like I don't,I've already beat the game.
The only incentive for me is toget there, and that's way far
off, I see.

Speaker 2 (01:03:41):
I wanted romance options and I wanted to be able
to rotate my camera.
Those are the two things Iwanted.
No, I'm just kidding, not havethat romance options a joke, but
honestly, not being able torotate the camera.
I know that's like so stupidand that's like staple of that
type of game, but I hate a fixedcamera in a game.

(01:04:05):
It just really bugs me.

Speaker 1 (01:04:08):
I thought I would hate it more than I did, but
once I got locked into thegameplay loop, I was, it didn't
even.
It didn't even register.

Speaker 2 (01:04:15):
I want to be able to see all aspects of something and
I hate that I can only seethings from one angle.

Speaker 1 (01:04:20):
Yeah, I would agree that the camera was frustrating
for me because I felt like itwas too zoomed in it and I feel
like it needed to be a littletoo zoomed in like I wanted to
be zoomed out so I could seemore of the map you know when
your character, so I want to bea little bit smaller.
I needed more feel the view.
I felt like they did that forlike performance issues, because
maybe it wasn't optimized atlaunch.

(01:04:41):
But I would love, like a slider, to be able to increase that,
just so I could see a little bitmore of my screen.
Did you play Diablo 4?

Speaker 4 (01:04:52):
at all.
Have you ever played in a RPG?
I play a little bit of path ofexile, ernti two dual like
doesn't do what that should.

Speaker 2 (01:05:07):
Whatever the good and I play that further to get that
, for it is grating fear wereokay on guard from its core.

Speaker 4 (01:05:11):
Help you, just the ones dedication of like a game
as I play.
It's is actually I play thefield I.
I just don't know what I'mdoing.

Speaker 2 (01:05:21):
And like he wouldn't help me either.

Speaker 4 (01:05:22):
I'd be like dude.
I'm like what am I supposed todo?
He's like figure it out.
And I'm like, well, that's notvery helpful, man.
I was like, yeah, I can't playwith you if you're not, if
you're not gonna help me.
It's like like you don't walklightly in the cabin.
Yeah, yeah, I'm sitting aroundlike this is a very hardcore
game from like, cause I waswatching people play it before I
played it and I was like I'mdefinitely not gonna like this
game.

(01:05:42):
But he's like, oh, do you gotto play with this?
I'm like okay, and I'm like Ijust don't understand the game.

Speaker 2 (01:05:49):
I'm like.

Speaker 4 (01:05:49):
I just I don't know what I'm doing.

Speaker 1 (01:05:51):
I just don't know what I'm doing Well, like I've
seen speed runs of that gamewhere, like people are like
changing talents and trees, likeas they are like fighting.

Speaker 3 (01:06:00):
We're gonna respect them.
We're gonna change.

Speaker 1 (01:06:02):
There.
It is like they'remicro-managing like 50,000
actions a minute and it's insane.
You're like this is anotherlevel.

Speaker 3 (01:06:11):
It is crazy, but that's a game I'm surprised you
never got into it.

Speaker 1 (01:06:16):
It's because it's.
I didn't know about it.
If Path of Exile two drops, Iprobably will get way too into
it, to be honest.

Speaker 3 (01:06:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:06:24):
Yeah, I guess it's sort of like a seamless world,
like it's progression, so theyshould share resources, I think.
So that might be interesting,like in terms of like I think
your loot might apply from oneto two.
I don't know if they've kind ofwalked that back or what really
that means, but it sounds likethey're trying to.
It's not gonna be like a newgame that kind of exists in its

(01:06:47):
own realm and this it's liketotally separate.
I think there are like kind oflike a spider web for Path of
Exile.
So Path of Exile one and twoTwo is coming out in a few years
.
I think there are spider websthat like link the two worlds.
But it is I probably will getreally into it.
I have never really played anARPG before Diablo four and I'm

(01:07:09):
like this is exactly the gamethat I, a game that I would love
.
This is perfect.
I totally want to get into that.
There was a few.
There was like a indie one thatcame out early, like Halls of
Torment, that got like poppedoff for a few minutes.
It's only like four bucks.
You should check that one out.

Speaker 3 (01:07:26):
Is it Guild Wars in a RPG?
No, it's an MMO RPG, but it hasthe same play style as an ARPG.
Not really.

Speaker 1 (01:07:35):
No, not really.

Speaker 3 (01:07:36):
Cause you have like skills and cooldowns, right?

Speaker 2 (01:07:39):
Yeah, I mean, I guess also, the ARPGs are a lot more
mob focused too, and God,there's so much nuance between
RPG.

Speaker 1 (01:07:53):
I'm like I'm gonna try and define it, but then I'm
like that doesn't really have to.
Like I would say that mobs arein general an ARPG like weak, to
where like one or two hits youcould just kind of blast through
hundreds of enemies.
Versus like Guild Wars is muchmore of like you're threatened
by the world, like you can dieand there's consequences to

(01:08:13):
dying.
But that also doesn't applylike that to everything.
So I don't know, it is verymuch so action driven, where you
are like you know doingsomething and then there's a
respect or responsive, you knowreaction.
But yeah, you know it's.
It is.
They are very different games,but I also heard this.

(01:08:36):
I was watching this video, likethat was like 12 years old or
not 12, it was probably like sixyears old, three years old or
something and it was talkingabout Guild Wars II or Guild
Wars I's combat system and itequated it to.
They talked about it beingbased on Magic, the Gathering
and stuff and they equated it tobeing very similar to Destiny

(01:08:57):
or not Destiny, what the fuckDivinity, original Sin, and I
was like because of all theskill interactions, but it
totally does not play like thatgame, but like the combat is
detailed like that and I was.
Guild Wars one, which I thoughtwas a very weird comparison, but
it came from a guy who is likethe content creator for Guild

(01:09:21):
Wars, like the series, and itwas just kind of mind blowing.
Expert opinion.
Then I was like all right, I'lltrust that opinion, I mean.
But it was kind of it was likeweird to hear him compare that,
compare it to that.

Speaker 2 (01:09:33):
but According to the forums on Blizzard, arpgs are
known as a genre that is singleplayer with online aspects,
whereas MMO RPGs are a genrewhere online aspects and
multiplayer activities are notonly the norm but forced.

Speaker 1 (01:09:50):
So then I would 100% classify Guild Wars one as not
an MMO and as an ARPG, becauseall the combat zones are instant
space and you're by yourselfunless you have a party with you
.
Interesting, but they are.
It is not an open world, whichI fucking love about Guild Wars
one and hate it about Guild Warstwo, because it's balanced for

(01:10:13):
your group right, so like thecombat is real and difficult.
Versus Guild Wars two it's likeyou're never really threatened
by anything.
You just go and like respond inlike a way point close by.
Because how do you balance likean open world game where if you
have a hundred guys runningwith you or one guy with you,
it's kind of like impossible, solike there was real risk in

(01:10:37):
running around.

Speaker 2 (01:10:38):
We can have a whole episode where we actually really
dive in onto these genres ARPG,MMO, RPG, CRPG, more classic
RPGs like Elden Ring.

Speaker 3 (01:10:52):
JRPGs.

Speaker 2 (01:10:52):
JRPG like it's the most.
It's the genre that has themost subgenres.
It's insane.

Speaker 1 (01:10:58):
It's almost meaningless at this point.

Speaker 2 (01:10:59):
Like I said it before like the fact that Baldur's
Gate and Elden Ring are bothconsidered RPGs but are so like
furthest apart as you can befrom each other.
It's insane.
Like other genres, I'mliterally quoting myself the
exact same thing I said lastweek.
But other genres you don't runinto that, like Halo and Call of

(01:11:21):
Duty, are very different games,but that's core of their
shooters.

Speaker 1 (01:11:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:11:24):
And it's very easy to define them as shooters, but
you just don't see that in othergenres.

Speaker 3 (01:11:30):
Billy, did you want to gloat about some achievement
you achieved, bro, I could, Icould.

Speaker 1 (01:11:36):
So I achieved a lifelong childhood dream 20
years in the making 20 yearsalmost in the making of
achieving God walking amongstmere mortals in Guild Wars One,
which is a title that takes, ifyou were to start a raw account
people online say it's like fouror 500 hours, that's if you
know exactly what the fuckyou're doing and bum rushing it

(01:11:58):
and only doing that to achieveit.
Sure, but if you realisticallyit's an achievement that takes
and I'm going to say this is notan exaggeration like 1500 to
2000 hours to successfullyachieve.
And I fucking did it and I didit on my main character.
I mean, my account has muchmore playing time than that,

(01:12:20):
because just to do some of thetitles you have to accumulate a
certain amount of wealth.
So that's a difficult end ofself, but I have.
I finally did it and I got thisachievement and it felt so
fucking good guys.
I never thought I would go backto this game and play it, and I
don't know what it is if thissteam sale like it's been so

(01:12:45):
successful.
But a lot of my old friendshave come back to the game.
We've been playing the gamethat we've been jumping on,
trading some of our old items toeach other, helping each other
out, doing some of the oldcontent, and it's like we're
locked in and having so much fun.
My wife's been playing it.
She's been having a lot of fun.
We beat the first game.
We're about a little bitthrough the second game.

(01:13:07):
Right now there's four total.
It is, I feel, like a kid again.
I feel like a kid again.
I'm having so much fun.
The combat doesn't feel dated.
I love everything about it.
I'm having a blast.
It's definitely dated in termsof graphics.
Sure, it's definitely dated interms of server latency you

(01:13:28):
don't get the best ping and soit sometimes gets a little
rubber bandy and stuff like that.
But honestly, I have not reallyexperienced any issues with it.
The game does feel alive.
There's hundreds of peopleplaying it at any given time,
like probably even thousands, tobe honest.
The yearly events gonna happenhere soon, where they do the

(01:13:50):
Chinese New Year, they do aChinese New Year event for three
weeks or something like thatand it transforms the whole
world.
They do a whole Winners Daything.
That was everything that wasChristmas themed.
It's such a cool, fun,interactive world and your loot
drops, changes.
You'll be killing something inthe world, cupcakes will drop or
candy canes will drop, and theydo different things Like give

(01:14:11):
you sugar rushes and stuff likethat.
But I completed my Guam and thenI went on and completed even a
more nutty thing which you canonly get if you have Guam, which
is like 50 out of 50 homemonuments.
Which something cool game.
You'll know a lot about this.
I got 50 out of 50 on that butthat was because I had that's

(01:14:33):
less so a character achievement,much more an account
achievement.
So it's much morerepresentative of what you've
done in the game.
And because I got my Guam, I wasable to finish that, which was
fucking cool.
And that title bleeds intoGuild Wars II, so you get
rewards in Guild Wars II too.
So that's kind of cool.
But yeah, man, I did it.
I did it.

(01:14:53):
I took me probably after comingback took me probably 300 hours
since coming back early lastyear, maybe even a little
further back than that, probably300 hours since then to do all
the final stuff that I needed.
And, man, I'm having time in mylife so much fun I'm not

(01:15:15):
stopping.
I'm already coming up with likenew challenges that I want to
do, stuff that I want to come upwith and try Like I've got a
whole guild of dudes that Iplayed with in Guild Wars II
that are like not gonna grindthe game hardcore or anything
like that, but like that arelike coming up with cool
challenge runs that they want totry out and do and it's fun man

(01:15:38):
.

Speaker 3 (01:15:39):
So what would you say ?
Your guys' games are that yougo back to like Billy.

Speaker 2 (01:15:43):
I don't go back to any game like that.
I mean, I go back to games, butI don't over.
How many hours do you have inGuild Wars?

Speaker 1 (01:15:52):
True, Between all both titles north of 8000.

Speaker 2 (01:15:58):
I don't have a single game that I played that much
8000 hours yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:16:06):
Which I would wager is still less than all the games
that you've ever playedProbably.

Speaker 2 (01:16:11):
That's still in, Maybe, but not an all one game,
though.
That's the thing like 100%.
So like I mean I've put a lotof hours into the only game that
I go back to.
The only game that I go back tothat I guess would be like
niche now to play would beKnights of the Old Republic.
It's a very dated kind of gamenow, but I play that game

(01:16:34):
probably at least once a year.
I play through the beginningthen, but if you total up all
the hours I put into that, it'snot even close.

Speaker 3 (01:16:43):
Not even drop the bucket, compared to 8000.

Speaker 2 (01:16:45):
I mean, I probably in total maybe have 500 hours in
that game.

Speaker 1 (01:16:48):
Yeah, but how many times do we talk about like have
you ever played this game?

Speaker 2 (01:16:51):
I've never played it, it's true, it's because I've
over these years, I've onlyplayed Goers 1 and Goers 2.

Speaker 1 (01:16:57):
Like it's really that's it.
Like you guys are playing, youknow, 50 hours here, 60 hours
there, 20 hours there Me onegame, one game only.

Speaker 2 (01:17:07):
I have 8000 hours in Super Mario Sunshine.
Yes, what's that party game?

Speaker 4 (01:17:15):
Like you, go Mario Party, mario Party 8000 hours in
Mario Party 8000.
That's great.

Speaker 3 (01:17:22):
I have 8000 hours in Pet Simulator on the DS
Nintendox, nintendox, yeah, fedmultiple litters.

Speaker 1 (01:17:31):
Extreme Bacon says that sounds like an addiction.
It is more than addiction.
It's love, it's the lifestyle.
That's what it is I mean, is itreciprocated?
Yes.
Did you get anything specialfor your I don't regret a single
minute that I played in thatgame.
I've met some incredible people.
It's taught me a lot.
It made me fall in love withcomputers.
It's why I do what I do.
It's why I have a relationshipwith this guy, because I grew up

(01:17:53):
with his brother playing videogames.

Speaker 2 (01:17:55):
Not the fact that he's family Times.

Speaker 1 (01:17:59):
I got a lot of family that I don't really talk to, so
well, I mean not really, but Igot a lot of family that I don't
talk to as much as him and it'sdefined who I am.
So, like I said, like yeah,it's like a lot of hours, but
imagine if you added up totalplaytime, like on your
PlayStation 4 or yourPlayStation 5, or that number

(01:18:19):
would be crazy and it'd probablybe online and not all those
hours are like some of that shit.
I was doing AFK stuff.
I mean it's not like I'msitting there for all 8,000, but
it's lost a decent amount ofplaytime Grinding something
while watching YouTube.

Speaker 2 (01:18:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:18:35):
Doing Shumash or studying, getting my college
bachelor's degree, playing atwhatever time.

Speaker 2 (01:18:41):
All right, weird flex , you can get his degree while
playing video games all the time.
Not the Bragg or anythingHumble Bragg.

Speaker 3 (01:18:54):
I don't know what that is the Swiss heart.

Speaker 1 (01:18:56):
Is that like you need help?

Speaker 3 (01:18:58):
I don't know.
I don't know how to rememberthat.

Speaker 4 (01:19:02):
Yeah, I think that means you have a problem.

Speaker 2 (01:19:04):
You should see it.
You should see it there.

Speaker 3 (01:19:08):
Do you?

Speaker 4 (01:19:08):
eat Cheerios.

Speaker 3 (01:19:10):
I'm not full.

Speaker 1 (01:19:12):
That definitely looks like the Cheerios thing.

Speaker 2 (01:19:13):
You know what's funny is you're the most well
adjusted quote unquote gamernerd I've ever met and as far as
like you break all thestereotypes because you have as
many hours as any extreme gameras you could have.
But you're also the mostoutgoing, charismatic person.
I might know which is like theexact opposite of what the
stereotype is.

(01:19:34):
The troll.

Speaker 4 (01:19:36):
Most people have 8,000 hours in the game or not,
as like talk.

Speaker 2 (01:19:40):
They don't talk to people?
Yeah, they dwell in their house.

Speaker 4 (01:19:43):
That's what people's 8,000 hours in a video game do.
Well, I think.

Speaker 1 (01:19:48):
I couldn't do this in a game like Night Sailor
Republic or like Mass Effect.
I couldn't do, and there'speople who like will grind it to
.
I bet you there's speed runnersthat have like 8,000 hours in
Mass Effect or something tryingto eke out.
I can't do that.
I was drawn to Guild Warsbecause of the game play, but
the social element kept me there.
True.

Speaker 2 (01:20:08):
And there's games like Mass Effect and the Night
Sailor Republic and singleplayer focused games.
There's not enough content todo that.
You can't do that over and overand over for 8,000 hours.
I mean, if you were doing itusing as a hangout session, talk
to friends.
That's different and there'sjust.

(01:20:29):
Mmos are designed to be playedlike that.
They're constantly pumping outnew content.
They're constantly figuring outthings to do for the community.
So if you had 8,000 hours in agame like that, or public or any
single player game for thatmatter, there's like a real
thing going on with your brain.

Speaker 4 (01:20:46):
You're like let me like like.

Speaker 2 (01:20:49):
no social aspect to it at all.
You're just playing by yourselffor 8,000 hours Like.

Speaker 1 (01:20:56):
What's your most like .

Speaker 4 (01:20:57):
I think the only game that I come back to a bunch
like that's actually like storykind of wise is like Far Cry 5.
That's my favorite game ever.
I only have like 130 hours inthe game.
Just I've only played like everreplayed.
That's like.
That's a game I was like thinkabout.

Speaker 3 (01:21:15):
Is Far Cry 5 boss, or is that?

Speaker 2 (01:21:17):
No, that's three.
No, three is boss, that's five,is the?

Speaker 4 (01:21:21):
that's all the religious cult numbers.

Speaker 2 (01:21:23):
Yeah, in.

Speaker 4 (01:21:23):
America.
Yeah, ok, that's nothing to doas well, like it's just the most
like relatable, like the onelike story that you can see,
like happening, like that Coldnever taken over the world, like
, yeah, you could see thathappen.

Speaker 2 (01:21:36):
Four is the one with that weird dude in the Himalayas
.
Yeah, three is boss Three isboss.
I was when I play was to.
That was actually really good.
The one and two.

Speaker 3 (01:21:48):
Huh, yeah, I played five.

Speaker 2 (01:21:50):
I had not anything like memorable Right.

Speaker 4 (01:21:52):
People the way that.
Oh man, I like the villain fromPark.
I was the best Right.

Speaker 2 (01:21:58):
Especially Far Cry.
You could say a lot of thingsabout that series, but they have
very memorable good villains.

Speaker 3 (01:22:03):
Yes, for sure, Especially after three.
Although you know I do have tosay I played I, even though I
really enjoyed primal, I don'tremember anything about the
villains.

Speaker 2 (01:22:14):
Because that was the like, the BC, like yeah, it was
like thousand years ago and thatwas cool.

Speaker 3 (01:22:19):
I enjoyed doing that, but I don't remember anything.

Speaker 4 (01:22:21):
That's also just like a filler game.
Yeah, like they came out likeFar Cry New Dawn.

Speaker 3 (01:22:25):
Oh blood dragon.

Speaker 2 (01:22:26):
Yeah, blood dragon.
Yeah, it's like the new actionhero.

Speaker 4 (01:22:29):
Yeah, like new dawn to like fill in the gap between
five and six.

Speaker 2 (01:22:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:22:33):
And also give you a finishing story to five because
they didn't finish it for you.
Like they're just like oh, whathappened after here?
And it's like that's it.

Speaker 2 (01:22:41):
Extreme bacon fixes heart yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:22:43):
And says there's your heart, thank you.
There it is.
I would say the game for methat I go back to the most is
probably fallout New Vegas.
I really enjoy that game.
Yeah, it's a good one and I,you know, I turn on wacky
wasteland and I don't know it's,it's it.
I just can go back and I Iguarantee I choose the same

(01:23:07):
choices the truth is over.

Speaker 2 (01:23:10):
It was rig from the start.

Speaker 3 (01:23:11):
But I just like that game.
It's got Matthew Perry in it.
Yeah, rest in peace, yep.

Speaker 2 (01:23:16):
He, I, he did not do good job voice acting that game,
but you know what it's there.
It's a part of history.
Bob, new Vegas was Obsidian.
Yeah and yeah, they, they.
Actually it wasn't Bethesda,they did it under Bethesda's
banner, but it was obsidian thatdid it.

(01:23:37):
And the outer worlds?
They did the outer worlds,which is one of my favorite kind
of indie RPGs.

Speaker 3 (01:23:45):
Next they're doing a vowed which is supposed to be
like elder scrolls.

Speaker 2 (01:23:48):
It doesn't look that.
Okay, I'm gonna reservejudgment, but it looks kind of
like a mashup of Fallout andelder scrolls like with the
humor and stuff and it just itfeels kind of Off like I don't
know if that works in a fantasyworld environment.
So I'll wait to see, because Ido like obsidian a lot.

(01:24:10):
That's how I felt about outerworlds is like I didn't like
that had a fallout vibe to it.

Speaker 3 (01:24:16):
It felt almost too too far, like if all out is,
this is like a six on the dial.
Yeah, outer worlds felt like aneight.
I really liked outer worlds.

Speaker 2 (01:24:27):
I agree with you, but I, for some reason that worked
for me in that environment, butthat doesn't work for me in a
high fantasy environment, ifthat makes sense.
Maybe I'm just being no, no no,that makes sense.

Speaker 3 (01:24:37):
I mean, that's why I didn't outer worlds.
It didn't really work for me.
It's just because thatenvironment I wanted, I guess.

Speaker 2 (01:24:42):
I guess it was just you wanted, like you, like your
sci-fi a little more serious.

Speaker 3 (01:24:48):
Yeah, I like it mass, mass effect.
I guess that makes sense.
Could you imagine if cyberpunkwas like as silly as like?

Speaker 2 (01:24:56):
follow, it just wouldn't flow.
That vibe just doesn't knowcharacteristic.

Speaker 4 (01:25:03):
No, I never played it .
I was gonna yeah, I was gonnapick it up when it first came
out and then it kind of likeflopped.
I was like good thing, I didn'tbuy that cuz like my brother
and people you played withbought it on there like it's
trash and I'm like, yeah, Isaved on myself on, you know

(01:25:25):
it's funny is I've.

Speaker 2 (01:25:26):
I was like I've been like the biggest like apologist
for cyberpunk, like on thispodcast for like last two years,
yeah, and then I alwaysmaintained I was like, but I was
fair at the start but because Iwas so like, I was so vocal
about how much I loved it thatthey forgot about that.
We went back and listened tothe old episode, the very first
review, yeah, and Dylan wasactually way more towards it

(01:25:50):
than I was.
I was very critical.
Dylan gave it a nine out of tenat lunch.
We're the only ones that matter.
But I Don't know the game Iactually believe it or not I
think I it's not my favoritegame of all time, but the game I

(01:26:12):
think I have the most hours in.
No, I mean, I have a lot ofhours in cyberpunk, but Dark
Souls 2 I got a speedrunning andI did that like for months.
I would beat it probably once aday.

Speaker 1 (01:26:28):
Yeah, and I speedrunning is like a total.
Yeah, there's no difference incontent, but in terms of time
played you have to put in yeah,I the best I got.

Speaker 2 (01:26:36):
I did a glitchless speedrun.
My record was like three hoursand I would do that at least
once a day and I used it atfirst it was like ten hours a
day and then I'd like reallylike got good at it and then I
did that for like a couple ofyears Like straight, and then I
just one day just stoppedplaying.
So I definitely have likeprobably over a thousand hours

(01:26:59):
in Dark Souls 2.
Whoa, but that's and it's funnybecause that's not even my
favorite game.

Speaker 3 (01:27:05):
Yeah that's just the one I went back to and played a
lot and dove into.

Speaker 2 (01:27:10):
I could go, I could probably play it now and I could
probably still get like a subfive if I, if I played it.
You think so yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:27:20):
I really do.
That'd be a fun little get.
We should get together and dothat.
That would be good, is it on,like the newer consoles or no?
You have access to it.

Speaker 2 (01:27:27):
I think scholar the first thing you could play on
the newer console, but it's likea ps4 version.
But I do.

Speaker 1 (01:27:34):
Would you play it on ps3 or 4?

Speaker 2 (01:27:36):
I play I when.

Speaker 3 (01:27:37):
I was running, I was playing on PlayStation 3?
No, I think you can play it onPS5.
You can, oh, you can.

Speaker 2 (01:27:42):
Yeah, you can but it's not the p.
They don't have a PS5 version.

Speaker 1 (01:27:45):
It's not a remake, it's oh, it's just so you just
have to rebuy it.
Yeah, it's a list of things toread.

Speaker 2 (01:27:50):
No, I bought it already.

Speaker 1 (01:27:52):
Because if you have, it on ps4.

Speaker 2 (01:27:54):
You can download a PS5.

Speaker 1 (01:27:55):
Oh, that's.
That's actually really cool.
Yeah, games, game.

Speaker 3 (01:27:58):
Yeah, go ahead games like outer world are great break
from the bigger favorite gamesis what extreme bacon said.

Speaker 1 (01:28:04):
What so?
What is I'm not familiar?

Speaker 2 (01:28:05):
with outer worlds is a Is like an exploration kind of
thing.
It's a.
It's a space fairing sci-fi RPGin the vein of like fallout.
It feels like fallout and butit's indie, so it's not.
It's actually not that big of agame, to be honest.

Speaker 1 (01:28:22):
The world where you land and then, you like, try to
set up a base and operations.

Speaker 3 (01:28:25):
No, no the game, like the story itself or the vibe of
the world, even though I know Iwould say it's more silly than
this.
I would say it's close tofirefly, like the the whole
thing is Space very beginning.

Speaker 2 (01:28:39):
The captain dies because your your escape pod
lands on him and you like ashitty way to die?
Yeah, and then you, you go tohis ship and then you have to
the whole first part.
You have to like repair theship and it's called the
unreliable, and then you, it'scalled the reliable, but then
they like spray paint the on infront of the reliable and you

(01:29:01):
end up becoming the captain ofthe unreliable and you build
this crew and you basically Takeon the, the bad guys and all
because you're just thisunwitting Person that ended up
being the captain of this.
So it does feel a lot like amore silly, fun version of
firefly in a way.

Speaker 1 (01:29:19):
That's kind of neat.

Speaker 2 (01:29:20):
You might actually I mean you might have some
enjoyment out of it.
It's not a huge commitment.
The game isn't that expensiveanymore.
You could probably beat it.
If you're like mainlining thestory, you can beat it pretty
quick, actually, like maybe 15hours.
You can get a total.
You can get a lot more hoursout of that if you're like a
completionist, but the mainstory itself really not that
long.
I remember being like, oh wow,I'm already at the end.

(01:29:41):
Well, and you can beat it likeright off the bat if you there's
a certain way you can so thereis one way you could beat it
Really quickly if you're verydumb because it's an RPG, so you
got a speck and all thesethings and if you're like really
unintelligent, then you can'tpass an intelligence check.
That's really basic likeHalfway through the game, and if

(01:30:02):
you mess that up, you launchinto the sun and you're die in
the credit roll.

Speaker 1 (01:30:12):
That's what that's the most unsatisfying and that's
how speedrunners beat the game.

Speaker 2 (01:30:16):
They have a really dumb character and they get to
that part.

Speaker 3 (01:30:20):
But that's what obsidian does really good, like
with fallout new Vegas, theiramount of customization in
allowing you to like yourcharacter, to be how you build
them and actually Actually actlike.
It is amazing like in falloutnew Vegas even you could have a
dumb character and you could belike you could be dumb, like you
say dumb stuff to charactersthe dialogue actually changes.

(01:30:41):
Yeah, he's like not smart mespeak a few word, or you know
stuff like that.
It's just, it's fun because itallows you to actually do this
guy gun yeah.
Versus like you look atBethesda's fallout and it's more
like no.
Even if you have zerointelligence, you still can talk
to people.

Speaker 2 (01:31:01):
You know what's funny is, the outer worlds is also
like, like cyberpunk is a veryanti-corpo.

Speaker 3 (01:31:10):
Yeah like.

Speaker 2 (01:31:11):
That's what the game is about.
Basically is you take on thecorporations that are dominating
the Halcyon cluster and yeah.
So it's kind of funny, but it'stotally not the same tone as
cyberpunk at all, but it's again.
It's a very even.
There's even characters liketheir corporate ranks.
So some of the characters youhave to buy is like corporate
commando, Corporate general orwhatever you gotta shoot them

(01:31:35):
and take them out.

Speaker 3 (01:31:36):
So to bring it back to a vowed Kyle, did you play
and did you enjoy fable?

Speaker 2 (01:31:42):
Um, I did play fable.
I played the second one.
I never played.
Why did play the first one?
But not enough to really have agood opinion on it.
But I put a lot of hours intothe second fable.
The third fable I didn't reallylike too much.
It wasn't as good to me.

Speaker 3 (01:31:57):
But like, did you enjoy that?
That not as a fantasy.
I I did in some regards, but Ihad never on the level that I
enjoyed, like Oblivion or evengame like Skyrim you know, like
because I wonder if it's gonnabe closer to that about is gonna
be closer to like fable, whereit's like it's kind of a
storybook.

Speaker 2 (01:32:17):
Well, what threw me off is because it takes place in
the same universe as theirpillars of eternity game and
pillars of eternity is like avery kind of Serious.
Is it like baller?

Speaker 3 (01:32:31):
high fantasy.

Speaker 2 (01:32:32):
Yeah it's, it's similar to like a game, like
ballers game, and so when theyTranslated it into this type of
setting it felt almost out ofplace.
You know, I maybe I don't know,that's just me, but I think, if
you look, I think the consensusis kind of where I'm at if you
look at like the communityreaction to it, because they

(01:32:53):
just released like a new thing.

Speaker 3 (01:32:53):
I've been seeing some stuff I haven't watched.
It was like a new trailer or adeveloper Diary or something
like that.
Recently, yeah, I've beenseeing a lot of feedback from
that I mean, I'll always supportobsidian.

Speaker 2 (01:33:08):
I really like obsidian, mm-hmm.
They they also did the SouthPark RPG.
So fractured but whole.
No, no, they didn't dofractured but whole.
Stick of truth, that wasUbisoft that did that one, but
they did sounds like a soulsthing, so bad.
They did the stick of truth, Iwish I had a giant butthole, the
stick of truth was actually areally good.
RPG and I remember I bought iton a whim, I played it and I was

(01:33:28):
like this is actually reallygood.
And then I told Dylan about itat work and I was like you got
to try this.
And then Dylan came back andhe's like it was actually really
good and like he beat it inlike a couple days.

Speaker 3 (01:33:39):
Yeah, but like and I mean fractured buttholes only so
good, because it's basicallystick of truth continued.

Speaker 2 (01:33:45):
Yeah, so like the, the stick of truth is it's kind
of parodying.
It's kind of parodying highfantasy, dungeons and Dragons,
and then the fractured but wholeis parodying like Avengers and
like superhero.
Yeah, and the whole like I.
There's so many quotable,memorable things from those

(01:34:07):
games.
One of my favorite boss fightswas from the fractured but whole
and you have to fight this likegiant, like elder rich horror,
no, no, I'm talking about hername is like Boutay she's Boutay
, or something like that andshe's like this giant, like
stripper, that's like chasingyou down and you have to escape

(01:34:29):
and you, you fight her and youconstantly have to move and If
you're, if you're not movingcorrectly, like she'll like kill
you by sitting on you.
Spontaneous Boutay because hername, yeah, and it's like so
over the top, so it's likeextreme, but actually some of
like the best turn-basedstrategy RPG Elements I've ever

(01:34:52):
played in a game.
I'm not gonna lie.
Yeah like it's, so it's, it'swild man.
You.
Honestly, I'd recommend anyoneto just give those games a shot.

Speaker 3 (01:35:02):
The humor in it is so funny.
Just it like just playing thegame.
You're constantly laughing.

Speaker 2 (01:35:10):
Like on the second one, because they're all
superheroes.
Uh, the one kid, um, thediabetic one.
He like gets super strengthfrom like going into a diabetic
rage.
He like like Give himself likeI don't know like orange juice,
like yeah, like he'll drink,like like something really

(01:35:31):
sugary, and then he like goesinto a rage and he like punched
new walls like the Hulk.

Speaker 1 (01:35:35):
And then there's literally a part of the game
where he dies, oh yeah and he,like he sacrifices himself.

Speaker 2 (01:35:42):
It's all heroic, but he, like it, just has a diabetic
like common, like.
It had it been and it, oh man,it's good.

Speaker 1 (01:35:51):
Yeah, it's like a fun game.

Speaker 2 (01:35:53):
It's really fun and they're cheap.
Now you can buy both of themtogether and bundles for like 20
bucks maybe and the way thegraphics are.

Speaker 3 (01:36:00):
It looks like the show, so it's not it doesn't
need to look pretty no like, asit looks like, south Park.
Wow, you're the new kid.

Speaker 1 (01:36:10):
Wow, well, we've been ripping here for close to two
hours over an hour and a half.
So, dylan, where could peoplefind us?

Speaker 3 (01:36:17):
they can find us on YouTube, instagram, spotify, any
major podcast listeningplatform you listen to as well
as on YouTube, we stream everyTuesday at 7 PM Pacific time.
Come join us, you know.
Watch the stream.

Speaker 1 (01:36:34):
Comment hit that bell notification so you know when
we're going hit subscribe.

Speaker 2 (01:36:39):
Smash that like, button Smash it.
Is that a?
Just when we say smash thatlike, do people, the youtubers,
even say that anymore?

Speaker 1 (01:36:46):
Yes, do they just say ages.

Speaker 2 (01:36:49):
No, does that age us?

Speaker 1 (01:36:50):
Oh, I was like is it ages?

Speaker 2 (01:36:55):
Oh, I was like that's a really weird take but maybe
Ages us for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:37:02):
Yeah, but everybody knows mash that you know you
know, you know, you know, youknow, I know.
Shout out to our guests.
Thanks for joining us.
Yes that was fun and we'll seeyou guys next week.
Bye, guys.

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