Elden Ring DLC: An Incredible Experience With Some Shortfalls

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What if the latest Sims 4 content pack isn't worth its hefty $70 price tag? Join us for a hilarious discussion on the absurdity of this new addition and the simmering anticipation for Sims 5. Transitioning to more epic realms, we dive into the much-awaited Elden Ring expansion, "Shadow of the Erdtree." We scrutinize its $40 price tag, sharing firsthand experiences with bugs and performance issues while weighing in on the overall value for money. From texture pop-ins to the temporary mishap with Black Knife Tish, we agree that despite small hiccups, "Shadow of the Erdtree" is a treasure trove of content well worth exploring.

Do you prefer a straightforward narrative or a deep, lore-heavy story? In our next segment, we dissect the storytelling styles of FromSoftware's masterpieces, comparing the clear-cut narrative of "Sekiro" with the intricate lore of "Elden Ring." We delve into how different storytelling approaches cater to diverse player experiences and expectations. We also touch on the enigmatic character of Miquella and his impact on the Elden Ring lore. Our conversation takes a thrilling turn as we share insights on the Elden Ring DLC, from its vertically designed levels to the heart-pounding challenge of facing bosses like the summons knight and Radon in his prime.

Is the "Shadow of the Erdtree" expansion a game-changer or just an extension of the base game? We debate whether it eclipses other legendary expansions like "Blood and Wine" from The Witcher 3 and "Phantom Liberty" from Cyberpunk 2077. While the new content holds up the high standards of Elden Ring, we ponder if it transforms the experience like its peers did for their games. Wrapping up, we discuss the difficulty of transitioning from the base game to the DLC, the critical role of upgraded gear, and the layered complexity of new mechanics. Plus, don't miss where to catch our content across various platforms and join our live-streamed boss battles every Tuesday at 7pm Pacific time!

If you enjoy our episode's content, come check us out on twitter @KDratiopodcast, YouTube as The KD Ratio Podcast! or on Instagram KDratiopodcast

Episode Transcript

Speaker 2 (00:01):
It was great and we're live.

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hello.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
I hope that got the first clip of Dylan.
Well, gentlemen, it's been afew weeks.
We've been streaming some videogames, some vidya games, but
now we're back in our what's avidya game Vidya.
It's the, it's the video gamesquared.
Oh, it's like the evolved formof video games.

Speaker 3 (00:27):
Good to know.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
We're back in our normal format and we have some
things to talk about Our finalform.
We had a major release herethat a lot of people have been
looking forward to.
It's the follow-up to the DLCfor Game of the.
Year, oh God, I've been playingthat, actually Sims 4 came out

(00:49):
with another content packrelease.

Speaker 1 (00:51):
It's $70.
$70.

Speaker 2 (00:53):
But get this now the characters can wear green shirts
and not just red.
So you know, it's really.

Speaker 3 (00:59):
It changes the game.
It's a completed vidya game.
Some people really like Sims.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
I love Sims, but I want them to make Sims 4.
They have Sims 4.

Speaker 3 (01:10):
Or Sims 5.
I want them to just move on.
You're not a dab in my face.
Why, why would you milk the?

Speaker 2 (01:16):
If you're Star Citizen, why release?
It's the same conversation.
Don't hurt the cow becauseyou're going to just split your
community.
I want Sims 5.
That's a golden goose, Goose.
But the real game we're talkingabout is Elden Ring, elden Ring
, shadow of the Urn Tree.
Yes, the two gentlemen to myleft and right here or.

Speaker 3 (01:36):
Skadu or whatever.
Yeah, skadu, skadu, skadu.
It's like Shadow right.

Speaker 1 (01:45):
It's Shadow it's like Old English, yeah, Old English
for Shadow right Like jail, everjail and not ever gale, Ever
gal.

Speaker 2 (01:50):
Yeah, so let's just talk about our initial thoughts
on the whole release as acomplete, because it was priced
at almost pretty much a completegame.

Speaker 3 (02:02):
It was $40.
There's enough content in therefor a complete game.
It was $40.

Speaker 2 (02:05):
There's enough content in there for a complete
game.
It was $40.
So, if we take an objectiveapproach, did you feel like you
got $40 worth of content?
Did you feel like it was acomplete game?
Was there riddled bugs?
Was it a typical AAA releasethat we experienced?
Or let's start there I think itwas.

Speaker 1 (02:23):
I think, if anything, it was undervalued.
Well, okay, in other gamingcompanies every triple a studio
is like oh my god, we couldcharge 100 bucks yeah well, I
just mean, like other gamecompanies would have charged
more for that they would have,they would have charged full
price yeah, too and made itanother game look at, yeah, like

(02:46):
if you look at um uh assassin'screed, uh, they did the um
mirage.
I think they charged that like afull price game, even though it
was an expansion that they likespun into a full game.
I don't know was.

Speaker 2 (03:03):
Was this game?
The elden ring base game was 70at launch or 60, I think 60, I
think it was 60 yeah, that'swhat I remember.
Yeah, okay, I mean, there'sobviously there's different
versions, I think, for me, whenI compare it to the base game at
60 bucks and we didn't getnearly like the content.
I mean, I know it's still verylarge, but like I think $40.

(03:24):
When I first saw the price tagof $40, I was like, okay, elden
Ring, but I think it absolutelydelivered in terms of like how
much time you could put intothis.

Speaker 3 (03:34):
I mean I think it delivers.

Speaker 2 (03:35):
If you play it to the full extent, it probably
delivers close to 100 hours ofgameplay right.

Speaker 3 (03:40):
I think if you really you know, if you went through
and 100%ed it at minimum, youcan get $1 an hour on that.
Yeah, easy, and if you could dothat I think that's more than a
success.
Yes, I'm okay with the pricepoint by a long shot.
That didn't concern me at all.
Bugs, things like that.

(04:01):
I didn't have any problems theonly one that I had had.
I didn't even have problemswith frame drops.
I know some people were talkingabout that.
The only thing that happened alot for me was a lot of texture
pop in, especially when you loada new area like you load into
an area and the field would becompletely barren and for a
second you'd be like what?
where the fuck am I?
And then the you know thefoliage would pop up and you'd

(04:23):
be like, oh, okay, but it wasn'tlike anything that affected the
game really.
Uh, there was no performance.
Uh, no real performance issuesother than that for me the only.

Speaker 1 (04:34):
Besides the poppin.
I did have another bug and I'mcurious did you use t-shit all
kyle?
Uh, no, so black knife,t-shirtish.
When they first released theexpansion and after the first
patch, too, black knife.
You know the blood flame, youknow how it makes their health

(04:54):
great.
The boss, when that wore off,would actually heal.
And people were like am I crazyor is there, are they?
Yeah, they were, and so that'sfixed now.
But I tried to use Tish and Iwas like Tish sucks now right.
And I was like but I get it nowbecause they would heal from
her blood flame.

Speaker 3 (05:14):
I always thought Tish was overrated.

Speaker 2 (05:15):
if we're being honest , it's dependent on the boss
fight for sure, like its movesetwas so dominant on certain
bosses.
But I love your reaction, whichis like you immediately don't
think it's a bug, you're likedamn.
Miyazaki over here fucking withthe— Honestly— Making it so
hard.

Speaker 3 (05:34):
I honestly—if I saw that happen playing, I would
think it was intentional.
The game design I would be likehe fucking nerfed these.

Speaker 1 (05:45):
Well, and like looking at it in the fight, it's
hard to pay attention, firstoff because you're focused on
the fight.
But the other thing is like itkind of does that normally, when
it wears off, their health kindof adjusts, but they keep the,
the um amount that they've lost.
So it's hard to tell thedifference between that
happening and their health goingback up, because it moves
regardless when that wears off.
But that's the only bug I had.
I did have.

(06:05):
You didn't have any slow frames, like just a little bit like it
wasn't crazy any of the fightsit was.
It wasn't the fights, it wasmainly exploring.

Speaker 3 (06:15):
For me, not even during you know, oddly enough,
the only time I noticed any kindof change was when I was like
standing up from a gray site.
Um, but I never it was sominimal like yeah, we don't I
also, I just got done with theplaythrough of bloodborne, where
it's capped at 30 for fps, andmaybe my mind just doesn't pick
up things the way I should yeah,it wasn't bad frame drops.

Speaker 1 (06:37):
For me it was just like sometimes it'd go down to
like 40 maybe, for just a fewseconds.

Speaker 2 (06:42):
So I was on pc and, um, notably a handful of times I
, I I thought I was actuallygoing to crash in in two
instances, um, they were so itwas so bad, it was so chunky and
I was actually even playing onmy uh second monitor, which is
just the standard tv, so it was.

(07:03):
It was like really scaled down,it wasn't stretched ultra-wide
or anything like that.
It chugged a couple times andit only did it twice on a boss.
I don't remember what was it.
Rolana Rolana, I think it didit on her.
I didn't die either time, butit did happen twice.

(07:25):
You can mount up for her fight,right?
You can ride a horse.

Speaker 3 (07:29):
I don't know, I never tried, but I didn't try.

Speaker 2 (07:33):
Maybe it wasn't her.
Then I don't think so becauseyou're in an arena.

Speaker 3 (07:36):
She's in an arena, yeah.

Speaker 2 (07:40):
It wasn't Gaius, maybe it was an open world boss,
I don't know.
But it was two boss fightswhere I was like oh shit.

Speaker 1 (07:46):
And I thought, I was going to die.

Speaker 2 (07:47):
Yeah, maybe Rolana Fire Basket.
Rolana, it's a giant on fire.

Speaker 3 (07:53):
Aggro him into Rolana's arena and then I wonder
that thing has so much health.

Speaker 2 (07:59):
I wonder if it could take any boss in the game.

Speaker 3 (08:00):
Do if it could take any boss in the game.
Do you think it would takeRadon?

Speaker 2 (08:03):
They guarantee you.
They have that on YouTube likea full breakdown of like this
boss versus.

Speaker 3 (08:09):
Fire Vest Because Radon has no self-preservation.
It's very easy to dodge thatthing's attacks, but Radon would
just sit there and take it andjust face take it yeah.
Anyway, sorry, you were goingon a point.

Speaker 2 (08:23):
But yeah, a handful of times it didn't really break
my experience, but notably twiceon a boss and a few times in
the open world.
But it was no different thanlike in Limgrave with the tree
sentinel when the original gamefirst came out, where I had
frame rate dips.
It wasn't so much that it juststopped rendering, it went from

(08:47):
60 to 6.
It was like whoa.
Two of the times I thought Iwas actually going to crash
because it was so chuggy.
Other than that it was prettysmooth from a technical
standpoint.
Overall, what was your guys'feelings on the boss fights?

Speaker 1 (09:09):
I loved all of them, except for the last one.
I mean, we'll get into thatlater.
I still think it's a greatexpansion and I don't think he's
a BS boss, but I loved all thefights.

Speaker 3 (09:24):
Bale's my favorite, probably in elden ring, like the
whole game I would say bale'sprobably my new favorite out of
all the game.

Speaker 1 (09:32):
Yeah because he, his move sets are so cool and plus
you got igon there just it's thefirst time I remember liking a
dragon boss fight.

Speaker 2 (09:39):
Normally I don't really like dragon boss, it's so
funny that you so that guy thatis like hyping you up right is
a summon yeah I, I heard acritique today that I was making
me laugh because you love thatfight, because it's like the,
the epicness and the hype manand yeah, um, this guy and I was

(09:59):
watching a critique of fuckinghated that summon because he
wouldn't shut up, he was justshouting the whole time.

Speaker 1 (10:06):
That's the best part.

Speaker 2 (10:06):
That's the best part about it, he was so upset that
that guy even existed.
He never summoned him again hewas so annoyed To his throne.

Speaker 3 (10:14):
I thought it was so funny because I know how much
you loved it.

Speaker 2 (10:17):
And this guy's direct criticism was like this guy
won't shut up.

Speaker 3 (10:21):
I like I'm honestly I would summon a lot more if
there were summons like that.
It just makes it feel better.
Well, and if they?

Speaker 1 (10:31):
approach summons in that way, just for,
mechanics-wise, they have him inthe boss arena, so the boss
doesn't scale to him as if hewas another player and I mean he
doesn't do much damage anyways.
Npc summons don't really,unless it's a mimic, and then
the mimic even, but like thelast boss, the two summons you

(10:55):
get if you summon them, the lastboss scales as if you have two
other human players and thenthey die real fast and you're
left with this huge health pooland I hate that.

Speaker 2 (11:08):
That's the real way you're supposed to fight them.

Speaker 1 (11:10):
Yeah, with both of them.
Yeah, okay, sure, let's see youdo it, billy.

Speaker 2 (11:16):
Sure I will when I get there.

Speaker 1 (11:17):
You gotta restart over, though, because you oh did
I miss out?

Speaker 3 (11:21):
Yeah, you missed out on the summons.

Speaker 2 (11:24):
So, can you play the game?
One of them is from Saint Trina, right yeah, but you played the
game.

Speaker 1 (11:29):
I did that full.
Oh, you did his.
You didn't do the other guys.
Ansbach I don't know who thatis.

Speaker 3 (11:33):
Ansbach's the best.
He's cool.
He's the best NPC for me.

Speaker 1 (11:37):
Besides Igon.

Speaker 3 (11:53):
Igon's so minimal moment was grand.
I love that, okay.
So for me I mean I, without adoubt um, I would say that this
has some of the most challengingcontent that's ever been
involved in a from software game, for sure, um, ironically, this
is not the longest I ever spentfighting a boss, though, and
the final boss I spent aboutfour ish hours before I finally
got him down, um, but I don'tknow if that's because, like,
I'm a better player than I wasback then or if, um, I think I

(12:18):
don't know I, but on other fromsoftware games there has been
times where I've spent longertrying to beat bosses than I did
on this one.
But I do remember thinking that,man, this is like fucking hard,
um, borderline, like brokenhard.
And then once I figured outlike the way for me to easily
beat him, I kind of took thatopinion back a little bit,

(12:39):
because I was like, once Ifigured out a strategy, I beat
him relatively quickly, and sothat made me kind of go like,
okay, maybe it's not broken,it's just very, very, very
punishing.
So I can perfectly see some ofthe criticism where people are
like this is too much.

Speaker 2 (12:58):
Specific to the last boss, but specific to just the
last boss the rest of the game,removing him.
Specific to just the last boss,so removing him, the rest of
the game removing him.

Speaker 3 (13:04):
There's nothing in this DLC that you couldn't do if
you weren't already decent atthe main game.

Speaker 1 (13:10):
Well, and the thing is people which you have to be
to beat Mog and Renan.
Right yeah, and people are sostubborn, it's like get the
Shadow Tree Fragments.

Speaker 3 (13:18):
Play it the way they want you to play it.

Speaker 1 (13:21):
It's not.
Shadow tree fragments are asuggestion that you it's only I
don't have to do it.
No, your design you're supposedto, because otherwise they
whoop your butt.
Those bosses like kick your assI would say so overall.

Speaker 3 (13:38):
I think the story for me is very intriguing.
It's probably nine out of ten.
Uh, the boss design is probably8.75.
Uh out of 10.
There's plenty of 10 out of 10bosses, but there's also, for
every 10 out of 10 boss, there'sone that's like yeah yeah you
know this wasn't a 10 out of 10for me, um, and then like the,

(14:03):
the amount of like, there's aquality and love that put into.
I think overall this isprobably like nine out of ten
for me I would say going offthat same um.

Speaker 1 (14:14):
I agree with a lot of the same thing, like the boss,
um, and then overall worldexploration is probably the same
as Kyle's.
The story for me is the worstpart of it.

Speaker 3 (14:26):
I love the story I think it sucks.

Speaker 1 (14:29):
Wow.
Now I have a little bit of biasbecause I just played Sekiro
and I see what they can do witha story and how cohesive and
like understandable Sekiro isversus Elden Ring I.

(14:49):
It doesn't make sense why theydecided to be so mysterious and
I will read the itemdescriptions.
You got to do all this extrashit.
Sekiro, you can.
Anybody can play that game.
You can tell what happens inthe story.
Yeah, you don't have to readanything.

Speaker 3 (15:04):
I will give you that I appreciate the story.
Yeah, you don't have to readanything.

Speaker 1 (15:05):
I will give you that I appreciate the story more
after watching, like vati's lore, yeah and I, yeah, it's it's a
great lore, I love the lore, butI just think, knowing what they
can do and what they did withsekiro, I can't excuse.

Speaker 3 (15:18):
But that's expansion well, that's just a different
approach you're you're askingfor.
It's a different kind of genre.
It's the same company thatdoesn't matter.

Speaker 1 (15:25):
That's just a different approach.

Speaker 3 (15:25):
You're asking for.
It's a different kind of genre.
It's the same company thatdoesn't matter.
That's the same company thatmade Armored Core.

Speaker 1 (15:29):
And.

Speaker 3 (15:29):
Armored Core's story is better too.
Yeah, but you wouldn't go intoArmored Core expecting it to be
like Elden Ring.

Speaker 1 (15:34):
That's what a lot of people went to Armored Core for.

Speaker 3 (15:37):
And they were disappointed.
But just because it's the samecompany doesn't mean they have
to do the same thing I thinkthere's enough similarities
between I I get your criticism,but where what I don't like is
when you say I don't accept asif it's poor, just because you
didn't like the way theyapproach.
I don't accept that, yeah, I.
I think that's where I thinkyou're wrong to say that,

(15:58):
because I can look at somethingand I can say I don't know, I
don't like the way that, thatyou know, I don't like their
approach to storytelling, butthen to say I don't accept that,
as if it's not good enough forme, that means it's shit.

Speaker 1 (16:12):
That's what it sounds like, fine, I'll change it to
the creative decision that theymade to change from what they
did with Sekiro.
I don't agree with.

Speaker 3 (16:21):
I really don't think Sekiro's story was that good.
I didn't accept it.

Speaker 1 (16:22):
I don't agree with I really don't think Sekiro's
story was that good.
Well, I think it's cohesive.
I didn't accept it.
It's cohesive andunderstandable.

Speaker 3 (16:29):
Okay, but I also beat Sekiro right after beating
Ghost of Tsushima, which knocksthat story out of the water.
But it's from software.

Speaker 1 (16:37):
I don't go to their games, to be honest.
I don't go to their gamesexpecting a fucking amazing
story.
I expect hard bosses and funand like exploration and all
that stuff and the good stories,the icing on the top, but it's
just.
Yeah, I just that.
To me that was the weakestpoint of the expansion and I'll.
I'll retake that.

(16:58):
I don't accept it, but I justthe creative decision they made
you can say whatever you want Iagree with.

Speaker 3 (17:04):
I'm playing devil's advocate here because I really
did like the story a lot asstory people.

Speaker 1 (17:10):
We're the only two that can.

Speaker 3 (17:12):
That was I actually, so I felt like the story was
much more understandable thanElden Ring's base game, and so
that's what threw me off,because you didn't really have
that criticism about the basegame, but the base game is way
more convolut.
That's what threw me off,because you didn't really have
that criticism about the basegame, but the base game is way
more convoluted than what was inthis dlc well, and I think it's
an issue I have with the maingame too.

Speaker 1 (17:33):
I just, you just never voiced it, just never
voiced it because you know, bylike you get caught up in all
the other stuff and all theother amazing 10 out of 10
aspects of that game and I justthis one.
Really, I think it's like Isaid, I'm biased because I just
played sekiro and so I have thatreally fresh in my memory of of

(17:54):
the cohesive story, and then goto this and I'm like and you
know same, same formula, a typeof game like boss fight hard,
die repeat, and then to go tothis.

Speaker 3 (18:03):
I was like boss fight hard, die repeat, but I when
people go to sekiro afterplaying like a game like elden
ring or dark souls, I was likethey're always like it's way
different it's it plays muchmore like um, like jedi fallen
order, where it's like parryheavy and it's still just as
challenging, if not more, in alot of ways.

(18:24):
But it's not really the samething as like dark souls,
whereas elden ring is much morecomparable to dark dark
souls-esque yeah, darksouls-esque.
I liked the story a lot, um, toyour point, I did have to kind
of have it like hand fed to meafter like playing it a little
bit, um, but that's how I had tohave elden ring story yeah uh

(18:48):
given to me as well.
Um, I really liked the uh likemickela spoiler spoiler I really
liked um, I never really quitetrusted mickela, and so I like
that, all these things that he'sbeen revered for this and that
Mikala the Kind is kind ofalmost like the opposite of what

(19:11):
he really is and he has thispower of influence which, if you
are a true fan of this podcast,you'll know that's what Billy
wants his superpower to be.
Yep Is the power of influencethat's right and I love the
whole lore behind like he sentum.
He sent millennia to go killradon so that radon can be, his

(19:34):
soul can be captured, andmillennia couldn't do it.
And then radon's been fightingthis whole time and then he dies
and mogues dies and he takesradon's soul and puts it in
Moog's body.
And then you find out that Moogwas actually like under
Mikula's influence this wholetime.
He's not actually like youwouldn't find that out a bad guy
um and Ansbach one of his.

(19:57):
I almost wish I could have hadhim in that final fight with me.
I know I tried to get him.
I got really close to beatinghim with Ansbach, but it ended
up actually being easier withoutAnsbach.
But there's two reasons.
One is Ansbach opens up thefight and he's like hello, old
friend, and what an honor it isto see you again.

Speaker 1 (20:20):
That body's not yours .

Speaker 3 (20:21):
That body does not belong to you.
Moog will have his dignity andit turns into this epic thing.
And then, if he dies, heactually tells the Tarnished, he
goes become an Elden Lord, notfor the gods but for men, and
then he slowly fades away andI'm like I wish that I could
have brought him with me intothat fight so he could say that
to me See, I wish they weresummons inside the arena, then

(20:44):
that would have fixed it becausehis health wouldn't scale,
because his health wouldn'tscale.

Speaker 1 (20:49):
And you make them weaker, that's fine, like they
don't need to be strong.
But lore wise, that's cool,like I want to hear that.
But I had to avoid it because Iwas like I'm not beating this
boss with those guys here and myhead cannon.

Speaker 3 (21:03):
He still said that yeah, because he's dead at the
end anyway, somehow, like hewasn't even in the fight, but
somehow he's dead in the arenalike they really wanted you to
have him in that, like umgameplay wise, they added a lot
of cool, fun new things like, uhlike, martial arts combat
weaponry and stuff and uh thingslike that new weapon types like

(21:25):
, not seven of them yeah, yeah,I think so.
It's not anything groundbreakingas far as, like it doesn't
evolve, elden ring um you knowit's still elden ring um, so if
you were expecting that, I cansee why maybe you might be a
little bit let down, becauseit's a there's new things, but
it's also a lot more of the samebut to me that wasn't an issue.

Speaker 1 (21:48):
That's what I wanted, you know, going into.
You wanted more of the sameyeah, my expectations were this
is just going to be just moreelden, more elden ring, new
areas they gave it to you forsure.

Speaker 3 (21:59):
It's the level design I think is actually better in
this dlc than it is in the, themain game it's a lot more
vertical.
It's a lot more.
It's much more reminiscent oflike Dark Souls.

Speaker 1 (22:09):
And I love the dungeons Like they Like
dedicated legacy dungeons iswhat they call them.
Yeah, but they have four, three, four, four Shadowkeep.

Speaker 3 (22:22):
Mance Manor.

Speaker 1 (22:23):
Mance Manoror, the first castle with rilana yeah
and then ilum uh, the end areayeah the end area yeah, ilm
ilner or something yeah, whichis also the beginning area too.

Speaker 3 (22:35):
Just funny, because that's where you go to fight the
dancing lion.

Speaker 2 (22:39):
It's just a different part of that I somehow that
boss, I don't know how you cango left or right, you don't have
to fight.

Speaker 3 (22:45):
but that's the one people stumble onto first.
Is that one?

Speaker 2 (22:50):
The first one I went into.
I fought this knight, thissummons knight.
He was in a catacomb Not acatacomb, but in this cathedral.

Speaker 1 (22:59):
In the mausoleum, yeah, mausoleum, nameless
mausoleum.

Speaker 2 (23:04):
He was a rude awakening to the DLC.

Speaker 1 (23:08):
They're tough.

Speaker 2 (23:09):
Yeah, and you can't summon your mimic, so it's just
truly like a 1v1.

Speaker 1 (23:14):
Yeah, I love.
I mean, I'm a big like EldenBling guy.
What was it called for?
Dark Souls Fashion.

Speaker 3 (23:25):
Souls, just Fashion Souls.

Speaker 1 (23:27):
But so I love the armor they added specifically.
I like the bear pelt one.

Speaker 3 (23:33):
I like a lot of the armors the weapons are fun too.

Speaker 1 (23:37):
I tried two of the new ones.
I tried the great katanas and Itried the martial arts.
They're fun.
Martial arts is really good.
I felt like it just didn'tclick with me to where I can
make it my main, but definitelyagainst human type enemies.
I didn't like how I feel likeyou have to be right up on yeah

(23:57):
because it's no

Speaker 3 (23:59):
reach so it's literally just like you're, you
know you're gonna take thedamage yeah in the world being
the last boss with that.
Somebody's probably done italready.
I guarantee you somebody's doneit already, Like Lobos he just
did his Rune level 1, no ShadowTree blessing Radon fight.
It took him like the fightitself was like 15 minutes long.

Speaker 2 (24:22):
Consort Radon, perfectly dodging everything.

Speaker 3 (24:25):
Wow, and on top of that to be rune level one.
No, shadow tree level up thatmeans you have to beat regular
radon yeah and moge as well.
So you have to fight the wholegame without and then get to the
dlc level.
What, what area?
Um, I don't know, I can'tremember what weapon level one.
No, I think you could up, youcould level up weapons, but it

(24:48):
still doesn't do much whenyou're you know the shadow tree,
level one.

Speaker 1 (24:52):
So, speaking of spoilers, what's your thoughts
on the final boss, kyle?

Speaker 3 (24:58):
so the final boss, we , we.
It's funny because we actuallytalked about this, yeah, a long
time ago.
We were like, how cool would itbe to fight radon?
and we yeah we said that we'relike how cool would it be to
fight.
Radon is prime.
I don't think we're ready forthat, truly, you know, um, I can
see the argument.

(25:19):
I really can't where people sayhe's, he's so hard, it's cheap.
I can, I can see that and therewas actually times where I felt
like that.
But I don't know if that'sactually a fair assessment after
I've been through it and I beathim and I mentioned it already.
But the reason I think that isbecause once I found the
strategy that works for me, itbecame much more manageable and

(25:42):
much more doable, and I thinkthat's really at the the core of
what elden ring is.
That's what it's always been.
It's always been uh, how do youfight this boss and make it
work and make it make sense foryou as a player?
And the reason that peoplenever really brought this up

(26:02):
until now is because this wasthat same concept, but on a much
harder scale.
If you didn't have the build,if you didn't approach it in the
right way, then it wouldfucking punish you for it.
And I think, maybe because I'mI am a from software stand for
sure, there's no doubt aboutthat but because I've played
like pretty much every gamethey've ever released.

(26:23):
I've experienced this type ofthing before with them and this
wasn't the the hardestpunishment they've ever put.
I've experienced this type ofthing before with them and this
wasn't the the hardestpunishment they've ever put me
through as a studio, and sothat's why I think I'm much more
forgiving of it than maybe alot of other people would be.
And I think elden ring was thefirst from software game that
attracted a lot of casualplayers.
It was their first like, reallike a lot of souls, yeah like a

(26:47):
lot of people played it thatnever had played the other ones.
It's just, elder ring was hugeand so when they got subjected
to like a real dark soulsexperience in this game, um, I
don't think they were ready forit and that that's the
experience that I'm used to withthe From Software games was
what I had with that, and Inever had that really with Elden

(27:11):
Ring too much.
I've always said Elden Ring hadthe potential to be the hardest
From Software game, but alsothe easiest, because of how many
things they give you In DarkSouls.

Speaker 1 (27:28):
Bloodborne games like that.

Speaker 3 (27:29):
You'll have at least one or two moments where you
feel like you feel in that fight, and so at the end of the day,
I don't have a.
I can see why someone mightfeel that way, but I'm not in
that camp.

Speaker 1 (27:39):
I would agree.
I started off in the camp oflike I almost did a Billy, but I
pumped brakes a little bit.

Speaker 3 (27:46):
Not only, yeah, not only is this hardest boss.

Speaker 1 (27:48):
I don't think I'll beat him, but I was like I'm
gonna.
I said to myself I'm like I cansay I think he's BS right now,
but I'm gonna hold my finaljudgment until I do beat him,
because I don't think it's fairfor me to, you know, because
that's Dark Souls and elder ringlike from software.
That's what happens.
You get to a boss and you kindof hit a wall and you got to

(28:10):
figure out how to break throughit.
I do I.
I want to hear your opinion onthis because I think everything
you said was correct about it.
You know it's the mostwidespread um from software game
real quick.

Speaker 3 (28:21):
This was your.
This was actually your firstreal challenge in elder ring.
You've had challenges, butlet's be real, here you haven't
had any real challenges.

Speaker 1 (28:30):
Yeah, yeah, um, I he's honestly my least favorite
boss in Elden Ring, like designwise, and I I don't want to
fight him again and I I thinkhe's badly designed in my
opinion because I think fromsoftware is really good at

(28:53):
making difficult but fair bossesand he does not feel like that.

Speaker 3 (28:59):
The only reason I would say that the fair aspect
comes into place, cause he I.
It doesn't sound like this wasyour experience.
You made it seem like there wasrng involved and but for me I
felt like he was doing the samething every time he will.

Speaker 1 (29:15):
I mean, you saw, sometimes he'd be really
aggressive with me, andsometimes the only difference
for me was always the beginning.

Speaker 3 (29:22):
Either he started off really light or he started off
aggressive at the beginning.
In the first phase sometimesyou do a lot of gravity pulls,
sometimes you wouldn't dogravity pulls.
But the second phase was alwaysvery much the same thing.
Every time it almost got to thepoint where, like I was like,
oh, he's gonna do this, now dothat.
It doesn't mean that I couldfucking figure out how to dodge

(29:44):
any of those attacks, but I knewthey were coming.
I was like, oh, is this attack?
It got to the point where I waslike, okay, I'm going to take
damage on this because I don'tknow how to fucking the last
time.

Speaker 1 (29:53):
The reason I won is because I finally I learned
pretty much all, but probablyone of his combos and how you
dodge them.
That's how I was able to beathim.
Yeah, I never quite figuredthat out.
Yeah, and so it.
There is a tiny bit of rng, butit's not that much.
I do think there is a change inhis aggressiveness.
Sometimes, like, it feels likehe's a lot more, and I don't

(30:15):
know if that's just how theydesign their bosses, like if
you're aggressive, they have anaggressive meter to match it, or
sometimes I don't know, I don'tknow how that all works I would
say I fall, definitely not asfar as you do.

Speaker 3 (30:31):
Um, he's not my favorite boss in the.
He's definitely like the onethat I feel the most
accomplished after beating, buthe's not my favorite boss.
I would say that he's probablyoutside of the top 10, but he's
definitely nowhere near my leastfavorite bosses in Elden Ring.
There are so many bosses inElden Ring To say that he's the

(30:55):
worst boss in Elden Ring is, Ithink, a little too much for me
personally.

Speaker 1 (31:00):
True, I meant in the expansion.

Speaker 3 (31:03):
In the expansion.
Okay, yeah, because the basegame.

Speaker 1 (31:06):
There's a lot of bosses and thinking about that
no, I still think he he's.

Speaker 3 (31:10):
I like him better than uh like bosses like gaius.
I think gaius was pretty plainwhat running around his little
pig guys was tough he was tough.
Um, I liked him better.
I didn't really like the lordof frenzied flame I thought it
was a cool fight I thoughtcinematically it was cool, but
that guy was.
I hated his area, I hated havingto get to that like.

(31:32):
I didn't like that.
I like like the cinematicelement of it, but the gameplay
I didn't like in that that fight, um, but I would say he was.
He was outside of the top five.
Uh, I really like dancing lion.
Just because I like that.
I like that one.
I like, uh, rilana, um, bail,bail was amazing bail, yeah,

(31:58):
bail was incredible.
Uh, so he's.
He's probably in the middle.
For me he's not the worst ofthe dlc, but he's he's not the
best yeah, and I I mean, Ithought you're talking about all
the elden ring and I'm like,I'm like worse.
I did say that, but I I meanthe expansion, I'm thinking like
, like magma water like and likeall these other ones.

(32:18):
I'm like damn, that is such abold statement I can't wait for
you to fight him.

Speaker 2 (32:23):
Billy, I want to hear your opinion I'll give you my
opinion because I've seen thefight he's basically played it.

Speaker 3 (32:29):
Yeah, he's watched the live stream, he played it.

Speaker 2 (32:31):
I wouldn't say so for me, just observing it,
obviously I haven't played it.
Uh, that's a caveat oneverything that I have to say
about this game, because Ihaven't beat it.
I played it, I haven't beat itum you got close.

Speaker 3 (32:44):
You're like 85 yeah.
At least to the main story,like 90% of the main story.
So there you go.

Speaker 2 (32:51):
So then I can't say I played, you can.

Speaker 3 (32:56):
You can say you've played through 90% of the main
story, which is a lot more thana lot of people could even do to
be honest, I ripped through itpretty quickly my thoughts on
Since we're talking about radon,the cup, whatever the consort
whatever his name is.

Speaker 2 (33:12):
Um, I don't think he's cheesy.
Simple again, I have not playedhim.
I'm gonna get very clear.
I don't think he's cheesybecause for me, what makes a
boss cheesy is dragon fights or,uh, astral astell of the or
whatever where they have thesevery Running away from you.
Yeah, elden Beasts, where theyhave these, not only that, where

(33:32):
the fight is just annoying.
But to me that doesn't make itcheesy.
What makes it cheesy is whenbosses have very arbitrary
hitboxes and they're rolling onyou or they slide back and
somehow that hits you and knocksyou on your ass and you're like
, well, that's not obvious,because like I didn't get hit
when I was.
Because, like there's timeswhere you get hit and you're you
get moved by the boss and youdon't take damage, and other

(33:52):
times it fucking blasts you backand so for me I, when I when
watching it, it doesn't lookcheesy to me.
Um, what I think is the worstpart about I?
Totally agree that it's apoorly designed boss fight for
one major reason Not because ofhis attack patterns, you want to
make him aggressive.
He's supposed to be thepinnacle.
I mean they're not doing anotherDLC?
This is supposed to be thepinnacle boss of this game.

(34:15):
It's known to be hard, that'sfine.
Make him hard.
Where you lose me is thevisuals.
It was so much visual noise,especially in that second phase,
which is pretty much let's behonest the whole fight.

Speaker 1 (34:29):
You phase him so fast .

Speaker 2 (34:30):
You get one bleed proc and he's already in his
second phase.
He's got these things fallingdown all the stars or whatever
and if your camera's lined up,you are quite literally blinded
to what is going on and thefight turns into this spam dodge
fight.
That is not that interesting tome.
Yeah, and it's kind of that'skind of sad because I think

(34:53):
aesthetically, from like justhis attack pattern and how
aggressive he is with his swordsand stuff like that, I think it
could have been a really greatfight.
It's just aesthetically,there's so much noise being
created, his hair getting thrownin your face with the whole.
It's just there's so much noisebeing created, his hair getting
thrown in your face with thewhole.
It's just.
There's so much visual particleeffects with the meteors

(35:14):
falling in and crashing and thenlightning coming down, and
you're just like what the fuckam I looking at?
I can't even.
I'm not even locked on to theboss anymore.
I don't even know where he's atanymore.
I don't even know where he's at, and to me that's when it's
like okay, this is kind of takenaway from the design of the
fight and diminished myexperience and, um, well, that

(35:36):
that's for me, that's your pointthat's like I knew which
attacks were happening, butthat's also why I never could
figure out the dodge pattern andI ended up just having to
fucking tank him because,because there is no dodge
pattern when all those lights.
Just having to fucking tank himbecause because there is no
dodge pattern when all thoselights are coming down, because
they micro stud.

Speaker 3 (35:51):
Dylan figured it out after you dodging brutally
punished by it for so long hoursthere is.

Speaker 1 (35:57):
It's bs but it's dodge into everything at the
second phase, any, you alwaysdodge into him and he and I had
his timing down of his sweep,his five-hit combo.
But yeah, it's BS and I wantedto add, but none of my
complaints.

Speaker 2 (36:14):
The stuff coming down is random.
Where it lands is what I'msaying Not on his attacks.
No, no, no, I'm talking aboutwhen he floats up.

Speaker 3 (36:23):
Yeah, the only way I was ever able to dodge that is,
I had to run away from as far asI could.
And I could rarely ever do that.
So I ended up just getting tothe point where I was like the
arena's not even big enough.

Speaker 1 (36:35):
But I was going to say all of my complaints against
it are second phase.
First phase I love.
I think first phase is great.
And then the visual.
That's a huge.
That's a huge thing for me butI ended up learning it.
But I think a lot of peoplethat's big gate for them.

Speaker 3 (36:54):
I.
It's hard, but I don't I?

Speaker 2 (36:56):
yeah, I don't even know if you can learn like the
visual noise, though Like I hearwhat you're saying, Like I,
like I know you figured out away to like I guess maybe
minimize it just by spam dodgerolling into him to avoid the
damage, but just the amount ofparticle effects that are
happening on screen.

Speaker 1 (37:16):
It's a lot, it's so much I'll give that.
That part is fair.
The particle effects, not hisnuke.

Speaker 2 (37:27):
Not the big nuke.
No, I new, yeah, no, I'm noteven his regular attacks.
They are I'm talking about therain, the constant rain of light
, of like holy beams, constantlycoming down.

Speaker 1 (37:37):
I also think the nuke .

Speaker 2 (37:38):
No, that's the only time it's random.
No, no, no, no.
Not the nuke, not when he turnsinto a meteor and then comes
slamming back in the, where hefloats up, where he floats up
and then explodes the arena andthen comes back down because
it's like the holy rain.

Speaker 1 (37:52):
Yeah, that's, that's takes up half, okay.

Speaker 3 (37:55):
Yeah, that's okay I also think that there is
something to be said aboutwatching it versus playing that
fight, and the reason I say thatis because when you're actually
in that fight and you'reactually playing it and you're
actually doing that.
You look at it differently.
It feels different, Like when Isaved my footage and I looked

(38:16):
at it, I was shocked that thewhole fight was under three
minutes because that felt like a15-minute fight and it almost
feels like your mind is workingfaster when you're the one
playing versus just observingand watching and because of that
, it does feel like the noisewas never a problem for me.
It was on the second phase, likeI said, except for the hair.

(38:39):
Like the hair was like annoyingyeah, there's so much fucking
hair but that was never really aproblem for me.
For me, I couldn't figure outthe hit boxes.
Um, I could see the all thestuff just fine.
It was some of the things hadlike bigger hit boxes and others
and it was actually what youwere saying was a.
What you would consider cheeseactually happened more so in the

(39:02):
second phase for me, um, wellyou and why I ended up
earthquake attack.

Speaker 1 (39:07):
Yeah, and so I ended up jump it, which you should be
able to.

Speaker 3 (39:11):
All other bosses work with you jumping it, but not
him and that's um, I still don'twant to call the fight cheese
because of you know, yeah,because of all the reasons I
already stated, but, um, butthat was, that was my problem,
like I didn't feel like therewas too much to figure out what
was going on.
It's just that what was goingon was so fucking hard to.

(39:32):
It's like you see it coming.
You know what you need to do,but you also know how hard it is
to fucking do that.
You know what the solution is,but it's impossible to do.
You have to be perfect, and sothat was the frustrating part.
Great shield yeah.

Speaker 2 (39:49):
And then I was like yeah, I was like fuck, this got
the great shield um, it's thebest great shield in the game.

Speaker 3 (39:56):
It's the one you get from the more guy.
Um, I leveled it up and itsignificantly changed that fight
for me and when when I lookback and I watch it, it's almost
kind of sad how easy it makesthe fight look, because it
didn't feel like that, but itlooks like that.

Speaker 2 (40:16):
Yeah, I think overall like my.
I know you guys rated it.
Did you rate it?
I know he gave it a 9 out of 10.

Speaker 3 (40:23):
9 is what I.
And then what was it?

Speaker 2 (40:24):
8.75 for, so I mean ultimately 9 out of 10.
9 is what I'm giving.
And then what was it 8.75 for?
So I mean ultimately 9 out of10.

Speaker 3 (40:29):
I gave it 10 for story.
Dylan didn't like story at all,but I gave it a 10 for story
and I said that boss design waslike 8.75, because for every 10
out of 10 boss there was like a7, you know, yeah, I'd say what
was your overall Story was wasprobably I mean, I love the lore

(40:49):
so I'm going to be forgivingit's an 8.

Speaker 1 (40:52):
I just think it's the weakest part of the expansion
in my opinion.
I still think it's interesting,but it was just weak and the
rest of it I agreed with Kyle.
Like you know, with the bosses,for every really good one
there's also kind of like a likeokay, what's this boss?
Um, so, overall, probably in8.5.

(41:17):
Once we're done talking about Ihave a question for kyle and
you, you maybe.
I can't remember if you playedit or not.

Speaker 3 (41:26):
I will say that if you're afraid of the criticism
of, oh, this is too hard, Idon't, I don't, that's, that is
what brought it right now it'sback into like mostly positive,
but that's what brought it intolike mixed was mostly the people

(41:47):
saying it's, it's too difficult, um, I, that's the only
criticism that, uh, you couldsay whatever you want about
radon.
You could say all, but likewhen they say like as a whole,
the dlc is too hard, I thinkthat's not fair I think that
only applies to radon like thatcriticism only applies to the
very last fight, and I'm notdownplaying the other bosses,

(42:09):
yeah, but like this.

Speaker 1 (42:10):
That's what elden ring and from software games is
all about yeah, he's supposed tobe especially dlcs, but
historically, their dlcs havealways been harder than the base
well and like I'm not, I'm notdinging my overall score of the
expansion because the concertwere done even though I didn't
like the fight.
I know he's supposed to be hardand like that's part of the

(42:30):
experience to me.
Like I, I just I the designdecisions they had with him I
don't agree with.
I like their other fightsbetter but I don't think that
personally lowers the score atall.

Speaker 3 (42:40):
Yeah, I was kind of speaking on behalf of what some
of the masses are saying rightnow.
Yeah, yeah, hey.
What was your question?
You said you had a question.

Speaker 1 (42:48):
Yeah, so it passed.
I don't know if it changed, butit passed Blood and Wine as the
best expansion ever.
Do you agree?
Do you think?

Speaker 3 (43:00):
No.

Speaker 1 (43:00):
Me too, no the best expansion ever.

Speaker 3 (43:01):
Do you agree?
Do you think?
No, me too.
No, I don't agree with that.
Um, I mean, we can have a wholeconversation on the category of
expansions.
I love the expansion because Ilove the base game.
It is more of the base game,but, like I mean, if we're
really talking about, I wouldput phantom liberty as a better
expansion than this, to behonest with you, because there's

(43:25):
more.
There's more to an expansionthan just Okay, this is making
it sound like I didn't like itbecause I love this expansion,
but no, I would not say thatthis surpasses.

Speaker 2 (43:39):
All the stuff that you just mentioned Phantom
Liberty and Blood and Wine.
I would not say that thissurpasses All the stuff that you
just mentioned Phantom Libertyand Blood Wine, I think took the
game and then expanded on itand took it in a new direction,
added elements and made it more.
This to me and again I have notbeat it but this expansion, this
DLC whatever yeah, it was likeokay, they defined the cookie

(44:03):
cutter, which was fuckingworld-class phenomenal with base
game Elden Ring, and they werelike we're just going to do more
of that.

Speaker 3 (44:10):
And that was it.
It was like, and it works forthem, yeah, and that's all a lot
of people wanted.
It needed more than that.

Speaker 2 (44:16):
But in terms of when you compare it to these, these
other ones, it transformed andelevated the game as a whole.

Speaker 3 (44:21):
Phantom Liberty literally changed the game.
It was a different game afterthat came out.
Blood and Wine was likestorytelling, gameplay, like
area.
It was those types of things.
I think that CD Projekt Red isstill in the league of their own
when it comes to expansions.

Speaker 1 (44:39):
I wouldn't say that this is you know, this is good
this is really good and this issome of the best that from
software is done about thefucking kings of gaming
companies, right?
So it's like we're not sayingthat from software's down here
no, they're both up here, but Ijust saw like an article that it
, like you know, somebody waslike, oh, it's better, and I'm

(45:02):
like I don't know.

Speaker 3 (45:04):
So if Elden Ring is up here, then the DLC is also up
here.
Yeah, but it's not, you know.
And then you have the Witcher,which is up here, and then you
have Blood and Wine.
That pushes it 10 times further.
Yeah, you know what I mean.
It's still an amazing game, butthere's levels to this.
There's levels to this shit.
There's levels to this game.

Speaker 2 (45:30):
My thoughts on the DLC are I think it was good.
Not great, at least it's notgreat for me yet Might in the
mood I just was coming home froma long vacation and that's when
I picked it up.
I basically put in all my playtime in one day.
Can't decide if I want my shirton or off.

Speaker 3 (45:47):
I'm like, hot though I'm dressed.

Speaker 2 (45:49):
Anyways, and for me it was like it felt like another
level of the Halleck tree roots.
I felt like that's where I wasexploring.
It literally felt like, exactlylike, oh, I'm still in Elden

(46:09):
Ring.
It didn't change any of thegame, which, again, that's not a
knock because the base game wasso great.
But for me that's why it justkind of makes it good, because
they didn't challenge anything.
They came out with a couple ofnew weapon types.
It just kind of makes it goodbecause they didn't challenge
anything.
They came out with a couple newweapon types.
To be honest, I still see a lotof the stuff that I watch and
the stuff that I'm experiencing.
It didn't really.
It's so late in the game thatyou kind of find your play style

(46:32):
.
By the time you get to the DLCyou're locked into your weapons.
Look at me Go watch my stream,you'll see I was beating my head
against the wall with a newweapon, and then I go back to
the one from the base game,that's when I beat him and while
you can respec, you can't justgo and upgrade new weapons and
that's sort of like thedifficult, like you have to go

(46:53):
and go through all thecollections and stuff I got.
So for me, like I know, theyadded some new weapon types.
I'm not really At this point.
I actually I was nuts enough togo through and collect.
I could probably max out fivedifferent weapons because I went
through and collected all thestuff to be super prepared.
But I haven't been challengedenough to say I'm going to try

(47:13):
these new things.
So that's more so on me.
Let me just wrap up before wetangent off this, but this is
sort of my thoughts on the openworld.
Um, I was a little disappointedand I was like by this much of

(47:34):
like the beauty in the gamebecause I felt like with
starting in with limbgrave andgoing and seeing areas like
Caled kind of sucked, but likewhen you go into, like Lernia or
Altus Plateau, like I felt likea lot of these areas had like a
lot of character yeah, andthere was like a unique feel and
it was pretty it was prettyLimgrave versus Lernia versus
Caled, and each new area feltlike a new experience you were

(47:58):
in a whole new and I almost feltlike that, at least the first
few hours, I mean, of dlcgameplay, which it doesn't.
In the grand scheme of thingsit's not much, but I felt like
my first eight hours I was inthe same color palette it didn't
really change.

Speaker 3 (48:14):
Like I know you, you really love the cerulean uh
coast because that was the onlything that felt different, and
that was the only thing thatfelt different, right and it
honestly, it was pretty much theexact same thing, it just had a
lot of blue flowers that wasreally all when I if I really am
critical about it, that'sreally all it did, um.

Speaker 2 (48:32):
So I was a little disappointed with their choice.
Like it didn't feel like thegrand world building that I got
from the base game, like interms of like each area really
having his you know thumbprinton it yeah um, and for me, like
the boss fights, I'd always I'dalways played like anywhere from
five to ten hours a month ofelden ring so I didn't really

(48:52):
fall off, so I hadn't I hadn'treally been struggling with any
of the bosses to this point.
Um, I think they really did agood job of in this dlc.
They did a phenomenal job ofscaling the boss's health with
summons to the point where Iactually think you're even more
disadvantaged if you havewhether it's a multiplayer

(49:12):
person come join you or an npcor something like that, because
you feel that tuning, you feelhow much more health they get
and that boss fight gets muchsignificantly more difficult.
So I do like the tuning therebecause it I feel like in some
cases the multiplayer like ifyou summon like a regular person
in or or like you know, rajiron margit or whatever it kind of

(49:37):
brought the fight down to alevel where it was like, okay,
this is fucking easy.
Not in the DLC at all.
It's like, holy fuck, I'veactually summoned in some of the
gold signs on the ground forsome of the NPCs and I'm like
you're not coming back, get thehell out of here.
You just made that.
I'm going to spend twice aslong trying to beat this boss.

(49:57):
And I'll bring up my finalcriticism, which it's fine.
I wish it was done differently.
So I'm not saying that this isnecessarily bad, I just really I
don't like how it was done.
Is the scatadoo, whatever thefuck it is uh, the fragments,
yeah, the the shadow fragments Ihate the fact that those are

(50:19):
open world collections because Ifeel like you could just I
don't know how many you can getif you were to just literally
explore on Torrent but you couldget enough to cheese through a
lot of those fights and one ofthe core experiences that I
enjoy so much with base game,elden Ring, was going through
the game with the internet atthe time of launch.

(50:40):
I remember we always reflect onthat, but oh, I just beat Radon.
Oh my god, look, twitterfinally caught up.
They, they're beating Radon,everybody's beating Radon, you
know, and the streamers.
You know, it was just like.
It was like this kind ofcultural phenomenon and when we
beat Radon, whether it was you,me, guy in Japan didn't matter,
we beat Radon, it was the sameboss and I feel like and I know

(51:02):
they had to do this because ofthe way, because power creep and
something, I get it, but itwith the, with the shadow
fragments, it felt like peoplecould have different experiences
with certain bosses.
I, we were talking just beforethe stream, but like by the time
that you had fought gaius, justby the nature of your pathing,
you had had so many, so muchblessing, versus when kyle had

(51:25):
originally came across that hehad almost none, just depending
on which route you took and tome that like it takes a little
bit away from the game and sowhere it all sort of neutralizes
is towards that end game.
But I felt like all of thesebosses in some way were some a
level of end game boss.
They had enough character.

(51:45):
I mean mesmer it was like wasaesthetically one of their top
tier, like ace design fight wastheir poster boy for this whole
poster boy, like he.
His.
Aesthetically, this was like,oh, this is a guy you know, and
the fight was choreographedbeautifully and um, and I and I
enjoyed that fight.
And so I just felt like youwith how they did this.

(52:07):
Instead of locking them behind,I'm not saying, give it a
linear experience of of like,okay, you fight this boss, and
then you, this is the secondboss and this is the third bot,
no, no, but like, locking thosefragments behind.
Exploring the story and thegame through boss fights would
be a better experience than, oh,I rode torrent and I explored

(52:30):
this area and I found sixfragments and now, my blessing's
, three higher and now I facerolling on this boss.

Speaker 1 (52:35):
So I'm I'm gonna simp on sekiiro again.
That's what they do.

Speaker 2 (52:41):
But that's linear, a game right.

Speaker 3 (52:44):
Well it's linear, but it's open world.
That's not true open world.
Not true, it's open world inthe same way.
Dark Souls is.

Speaker 1 (52:51):
But the thing I really like about Sekiro is you
have your golden path right.
You fight bosses along the way,how their leveling system works
.
You beat, beat a boss, you gettheir soul and then you upgrade
your attack power by one perboss soul.
Right, and the thing is is, ifyou fight the optional bosses

(53:13):
that up, that that's you'rebasically your way of grinding
for the next main game fight, oryou can ignore those guys and
you'll still be high enoughlevel to where it's like it's
not you can, but there's theoption, there's the option to go
level up more, and so I think Iwas hoping that's what the
shadow tree fragments were gonnabe.

(53:35):
I don't think it's.

Speaker 2 (53:36):
I don't think you got like major fragments, and then
the optional bosses gave youminor fragments that you could
collect and it turned into major.
I don't know what it was, butjust something to give you to
make that experience equal,Because I would say Gaius at
blessing 18 or 16 when youfought him versus Gaius at
blessing 5 are radicallydifferent fights.

(53:59):
It's just the reality.
And also also I fucking loathethis is the absolute dog shit.
Knock on their UI, which hasbeen terrible forever, always
has been.
I hate the system of the, ofthe blessing, because you you
level it up no different thanyour flasks, but you don't know
what actually that, what powerthat's giving your character.

(54:20):
You just go to that menu andyou give yep, blessing up, and
then you go back to your statusto see what your attack power is
now and it's not obvious likehow much you don't feel that
sense of progression in power,where it's like when you level
up and you see that number gofrom 100 to 110 now because
you've leveled up this weapon orthe you or you've grinded up

(54:41):
your stat, you just are gettingblessing and it's like I don't
feel any stronger.
But you know you are.
It's just two different menus.

Speaker 3 (54:50):
I'm much more of a simple man.
When I read that makes mestronger, I say okay.

Speaker 1 (54:55):
And I just do it.

Speaker 3 (54:57):
I think my problem I didn't have a problem too much
with the, the shadow treefragments.
In fact I I liked the.
The system overall I didn'thave any problem with because I
found them all relatively easy.
I didn't really struggle.
I made it to 20 without evenlooking up a guide, because once
I found out like I hit one dudewho had a ghost that had a

(55:19):
basket on his head that gave meone, and then I realized they
were like at every cross, andthen there was all these like
statues and so like, once I knewlike the types of places they
would hide, I would just goexplore and it gave me an excuse
to explore the world andexperience it without needing to
like.
You could do that and you canget to like level 15 without

(55:40):
even fighting a boss.
So to your point, yeah, itcould make the experience
different, but I felt like itgave me an excuse to really map
out and explore the world.
So I could see your criticism,but that wasn't my take with it.
I felt fine with it the wholetime.

Speaker 1 (55:58):
I'd never really my devil's advocate, counterpoint
Kyle, is why not, instead of ashout tree fragment, make it
equipment, make it a weapon,because that's what the base
game does.

Speaker 3 (56:14):
What do you mean?
You have to equip a certainweapon to be stronger?

Speaker 1 (56:17):
No, why not, instead of incentivizing exploration
because of a shadow treefragment?
Give you a really cool weapon,give you a really cool like the
base game, doesn't tie your yourprogression strength to
exploration.
It ties it to your level, whichyou can get just by killing

(56:38):
enemies I would argue, you couldstill get cool equipment,
weapons for exploration, thoughbut I'm saying why not just make
why?
Because then that means you,you get your satisfaction.
You said you liked it becauseyou, it gave you a reason to
explore yeah so why didn't, whynot just have it that be
equipment?
why did they have to make?

Speaker 3 (56:56):
because then you then you're stuck into using
equipment that they want you touse to make you stronger, rather
than what you like no, no, notnecessarily, not necessarily the
equipment's stronger, just likethat's your incentive
Interesting the equipment isinteresting enough to make you
want to go to get it.
So then, what makes youstronger?

Speaker 1 (57:16):
No, just you could do the Sekiro way.
You could do the way the basegame, doesn't you just level up?

Speaker 3 (57:22):
I'm not saying that.
I think they did thatspecifically for exploration.
I said that was an added likebonus no, yeah, I'm.

Speaker 1 (57:28):
I'm just saying why not for them?
Why wouldn't they just, insteadof make it your, your power up
by exploring, make it, youexplore, you get cool shit you
still do get cool shit, though,so I'm confused on.

Speaker 2 (57:42):
But I think his point is is that not enough?

Speaker 3 (57:45):
I think what you're really saying is you just don't
want the Shadow Truth fragmentswhich I get.
That's what you're reallysaying, but you're trying to
equate it to a point that Ithink is not relevant.
For what?
Because you're saying why notput good weapons to find and
explore?
And you still do that.

Speaker 1 (58:02):
But you, you find cool stuff and you also find the
fragments through explorationwell, I was, I was trying to tie
on to you said thatincentivized you to explore.

Speaker 3 (58:11):
Why did you need that incentive when, like so,
ultimately, I think yourargument is just falling back on
.
You just don't want the shadowtree fragments to be there,
which I get, yeah, which is fine, but that's really what you're
saying, yeah I feel like theyshould have, rather than shadow
tree fragments.

Speaker 1 (58:24):
I feel like they should have done what they did
in the base game, yeah, andawarded exploration with that's
fine.

Speaker 3 (58:29):
I'm not invalidating.
I'm not invalidating what youguys are saying.
I'm just saying I don't agreeand I think that's, it's okay.

Speaker 1 (58:35):
I wasn't saying you're wrong, I was just asking,
I know, but you're the sayingyou're wrong.

Speaker 3 (58:37):
I was just asking a question, I know but the point
you're making is why notincentivize exploration through
finding cool equipment?
Yeah, there is cool equipmentalready and you do get stuff,
and you can get shadow treefragments and cool equipment,
and so I think ultimately itstill just falls back on.
You just don't like that system, which I think is fair.

(58:57):
You're allowed to not like that, that's fair.
But you're making it for peoplethat haven't played.
You're making it sound like youwouldn't find cool stuff by
exploring.

Speaker 1 (59:07):
You only find fragments no, yeah you, you
still find cool stuff yeah, it'sjust it's, I guess, to further
refine it.
They tied what I would deem anessential thing to progress to
exploration.

Speaker 2 (59:24):
Yeah, I see what you're saying Like an essential
item to be able to progress thestory it forced you to explore,
versus in the base game.
You're incentivized.
You don't need anything moreother than there might be cool
loot and that's enough.
I think that's the point thatyou're trying to make.
That's enough in the base gameto make you want to do that,

(59:44):
versus having this like oh, notonly is it interesting to go and
explore, but now it'sstrategically in my benefit to
go and do this because I getthis power boost.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (59:56):
So I understand why you're upset about that, but
what I'm saying now is that thatactually doesn't.
That's not bothersome to me, infact, that's a plus, and so I
just have a completely differentperspective on that.
And so what irritates you?
Actually, I find enjoyment outof, because I spent hours,
before I even fought the mainboss, just looking around

(01:00:17):
exploring cool areas and then,oh, cool fragment.
And, like I said, said I gotall the fragments just because I
was going around collectingeverything and for me you know
that obviously is not yourguys's cup of tea, but that was
just the benefit of being inthat world for me.
Do I think they could have had amore refined system?
Sure, obviously I think theremight have been something better

(01:00:39):
that they could have done, um,but I didn't think that there
was anything negative about whatthey had.
Also, you know, I think theycould have changed it to where,
like for the player that didn'twant to have to do that, that,
like you know, they could tie itto certain buffs from certain
bosses, that kind of.
I think that's fair, um, butyeah, I thought it was, I liked

(01:01:02):
it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:04):
Did they do anything with the Great Rune system?

Speaker 3 (01:01:07):
I never used it.
I never liked that system.

Speaker 2 (01:01:09):
Like Rune Arcs and stuff like that.

Speaker 1 (01:01:12):
You still have it.
But there was no Great Runeboss that you would go and imbue
Because, mikolaj, you find hisBroken Rune.

Speaker 3 (01:01:19):
Does it do anything?
I didn't even look at it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:20):
It takes away.
You know when he hugs you.

Speaker 3 (01:01:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:01:23):
It takes that away.

Speaker 3 (01:01:24):
I didn't even use it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:26):
Oh, that's what you so you had a proper rune arc to
have that.
No, it's just an item.

Speaker 3 (01:01:31):
You could still get hugged once.
No, I know Twice.
So you know how the resets itoh you can keep using it, so
like you can erase that hug,even though I I got hugged at
the very end of my fight.

Speaker 1 (01:01:47):
But that hug was so telegraphed it never was a worry
for me the only reason I use Iwould get hugged is it gave me a
break of like a breather I had,uh, one of my um talismans that
had a health regen aspect to it.

Speaker 3 (01:02:03):
So when I would get hugged I'd actually get health.

Speaker 2 (01:02:06):
So it wasn't that big a deal.
That regen lasts like threeminutes, which is like the whole
fight.

Speaker 3 (01:02:12):
It was almost like five, I think, but I don't know
the exact breakdown on it.
Yeah, so I can.
I think that to enjoy this, Ido think that you do have to be
like a traditional fan of FromSoftware Games.

Speaker 1 (01:02:31):
And I mean it sounds like we shit on it and I don't
want that to be the impression.

Speaker 3 (01:02:34):
Well, I think I was very defensive the whole time
you were.
You still gave it an 8 out of10.
You gave it a 10 out of 10.

Speaker 2 (01:02:39):
Nine, nine out of 10.
You gave it a 10 out of 10.
9.

Speaker 3 (01:02:41):
9 out of 10.

Speaker 2 (01:02:41):
Oh for a story.
10 out of 10.
So I mean, yeah, that'sphenomenal reviews.

Speaker 3 (01:02:45):
I did voice my criticisms.
There were things I didn't like, but you know, ultimately I
think it was a veryoverwhelmingly positive
experience for me.
Through the whole thing, I'mstill going back, I'm play it

(01:03:05):
three or four times to be honestwith you.

Speaker 2 (01:03:06):
Are you gonna fight radon again?
Yeah, I said I wasn't, but Iknow that I've cooled off.
I probably will.
I feel like I could do it muchquicker next time.
Let me solo.

Speaker 1 (01:03:10):
Her is uh added again I, he's been streaming, let me
solo him.

Speaker 2 (01:03:12):
Yeah, no, his name still, let me solo her he's got
a sane get up um and he's uh,he's streaming on youtube
helping people beat the finalboss.
There was another guy calledlet me tank him.

Speaker 3 (01:03:21):
Yep, and he's streaming on YouTube helping
people beat the final boss.
There was another guy calledLetMeTankHim, and he's just
sitting there just getting hit.

Speaker 2 (01:03:28):
Which is like the heaviest armor, the community's
fun.
Well, where can people find us?

Speaker 1 (01:03:34):
They can find us on YouTube, instagram, spotify, any
major podcast listeningplatform, as well as on YouTube.
We stream every Tuesday at 7pmPacific time.
Sometimes we'll do in person,like right now, or we'll do like
a video game stream, like youcan go check out.
Kyle most recently beat ConsortRadon, and before that I did,

(01:03:55):
and your whole battle with itwas a live stream?
Yeah, my whole battle is livestream, which is an hour and a
half.

Speaker 2 (01:04:01):
Hey, I was in the chat Hour and a half, if you
rewatch that clip.

Speaker 3 (01:04:05):
Two hours For just that livestream.
Yeah, and then I put thepressure on.

Speaker 1 (01:04:08):
I was like we're not doing this until we're done.
Livestream's not going to enduntil you're done until you did
it.

Speaker 2 (01:04:19):
Yeah, so if you want though?
Yeah, we did.
There's a short of it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:20):
There's a short of it .
You can watch that, yeah.
But yeah, remember guys, with agood KD you get the dub.
Bye.

Speaker 2 (01:04:29):
Bye.