The Evolution of Gaming and Summer Fun

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
And we are live.
I do believe so, hintleman,hold on, you might be streaming
on a different.
You can never figure out thesescheduled broadcasts.
Okay, we're dialed in.

Speaker 3 (00:22):
I always have to go in and delete the ones that
never uploaded.
I think we're dialed in.
I always have to go in anddelete the other ones that never
uploaded.

Speaker 1 (00:27):
I think we're dialed in now.

Speaker 3 (00:28):
Happy birthday to you Happy birthday.
To you Happy birthday, dear.
Dylan.
Happy birthday to you.

Speaker 4 (00:51):
Damn.
I think we should put that onthe radio.

Speaker 1 (00:55):
Absolutely Happy birthday, buddy.
Thank you.
Welcome to the podcasteverybody.
Tonight we got a lot of topicslike what's Dylan up to.

Speaker 4 (01:05):
Well, right now got a lot of topics like what's dylan
up?
To well, right now.
Happy fucking birthday, buddy.
Thank you, it's my birthday becareful of copyright.

Speaker 3 (01:14):
Something cool gaming's, that's true, that song
is copyrighted.
What's?

Speaker 4 (01:19):
up cole, good to see you, rana, good to see you.
Copyright strike gonna happen,uh we're not monetizing this.

Speaker 3 (01:25):
I don't think, isn't that?

Speaker 1 (01:26):
song for like the 1600s.
I think we're in the clear Ialso.

Speaker 3 (01:30):
I think the copyright expired actually yeah, it
should be good.

Speaker 1 (01:33):
I think we're okay guys, if the birthday people
come after us.

Speaker 4 (01:38):
I think, uh, we're.
They jump through the window.
Yeah got these motherfuckers.

Speaker 1 (01:43):
Well, actually funny story.
I used to work in a restaurantand that was the story that they
always told us why we couldn'tsing actual happy birthday.
That's why when you go to a lotof restaurants, they have their
own song.

Speaker 4 (01:54):
Their own version of it.

Speaker 1 (01:56):
Because that was always the story that they told
us was.
Well, actually, that song youcan't sing and it's like who the
fuck you know?
Like am I can't sing it's?
And it's like who the fuck youknow?
Like am I gonna sue I didn'twork here?
But like am I gonna sue theolive garden if I own the rights
to happy birthday?

Speaker 4 (02:10):
because you know some mean all gardens got a lot of
money they have the power.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
You're right, I'm thinking of it way too
practically yeah, you're right,it's all about money.

Speaker 4 (02:18):
Some mom and pop shop like am I gonna sue some mom
and pop shop you're're right,gentlemen, how we doing.

Speaker 1 (02:25):
It's a beautiful Tuesday, we just began August.
We are in the later stages ofsummer.
I call this the dirty part ofsummer because everything just
starts looking red and we'retransitioning into fall and
things are starting to cool off.
How?

Speaker 3 (02:43):
often have you called this the dirty part of summer.

Speaker 1 (02:46):
I call it the dirty.

Speaker 4 (02:47):
How long the dirty one?

Speaker 1 (02:48):
How long has this been a thing?
Oh at least five minutes.
Who do Okay?

Speaker 4 (02:53):
At least Right, that's pretty well established
then.

Speaker 3 (02:58):
I'm surprised it hasn't really caught on, yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:00):
Dirty summer, we're starting it.

Speaker 3 (03:09):
The dirty part of summer.
We're getting it wrong.

Speaker 1 (03:10):
Did you just say that and then think of why you call
it that after you Did you makethat up on the fly?

Speaker 3 (03:13):
No, that is wild.

Speaker 1 (03:14):
That's how I think of it.
I don't know.
To me I think of every.
I'm a very visual person.
So when I think of early June,I know it's technically not even
summer yet, I don't believe,but you get that initial heat
wave that comes in and it feelsfresh.

Speaker 4 (03:29):
It feels new.

Speaker 1 (03:29):
Showerless it brings in.
Yeah, he calls it dirty.

Speaker 3 (03:32):
Oh, there you go.
What do you know?

Speaker 1 (03:35):
But it feels fresh, it feels like there's something
new.
And then you get that latestage summer where everything is
just hot.
You're kind of tired ofcatching on fire and I just
think of like red.
I get like red vibes and it'sjust like it's just dirty right,
it's like steamy and inlubricious right lubricious I

(03:58):
brought this word up before youguys checked me, and it's
actually a fucking word.
Yeah, it's greasy.
Okay, it's greasy.
It's greasy, it's dirty.
I don't need to explain myselfany further.
Okay, your summer is verydifferent than mine.
Psl, baby, I have no idea whatthat means.
Psl Do you have any idea whatthat means?

Speaker 3 (04:20):
No, I don't think I do, jim Tan.

Speaker 1 (04:21):
Laundry GTL.
I don't think I'm Jim Tan.
Laundry GTL.
I don't think I'm cool enoughto know these acronyms.

Speaker 3 (04:26):
But here we are.
This is we're in Nerd podcast.

Speaker 1 (04:29):
We are in August now, which is crazy to even think.
We're past the halfway mark forsure for the year.

Speaker 4 (04:35):
Pumpkin spice latte.

Speaker 1 (04:37):
Oh sweet, Jesus, oh sweet.
Look at the chat.
They all know what the fuckthey're talking about.
Pumpkin spice, pumpkin, spicelatte, that's what it is.
I have not partaken.

Speaker 3 (04:48):
Ever Never had a pumpkin spice latte.

Speaker 1 (04:51):
No here's my thing, though.
I love the flavor of pumpkin.

Speaker 4 (04:54):
Why have you never had?

Speaker 1 (04:55):
one.
I don't like coffee, so leaveit at that.

Speaker 4 (04:59):
Weirdo.

Speaker 1 (05:01):
I love the flavor of pumpkin though.
I love the flavor of pumpkinthough, like pumpkin cookies,
pumpkin bread, pumpkin pie, sogood.

Speaker 3 (05:07):
We laugh at him because he's different.
He laughs because we're all thesame.
God, that's poetic.
He's not a sheep.

Speaker 4 (05:15):
That's poetic.
I love it.

Speaker 1 (05:17):
I'm going to quote that you know who said that Me?
I'm just claiming it.
Did you get that from somewhere?

Speaker 3 (05:25):
oh yeah, like that's really funny a couple years ago
at work, I was taking picturesof everybody, turning them into
like sigma male memes and thatwas like.
That was like a sigma memequote that I looked up once and
then, yeah, it makes sensearound that time, sheepleeple.

Speaker 1 (05:41):
yeah Well, we're here to celebrate Dylan's birthday,
which coincidentally coincideswith Podcast.
The death of Game Informer.

Speaker 4 (05:52):
There's a lot of death coinciding with my
birthday, but we don't have totalk about that.

Speaker 1 (05:56):
Obviously I'm not going to go into why Game
Informer failed or why.

Speaker 3 (06:00):
I think it's fucking obvious.
Let's offer our analysis.
We don't need to find out,let's offer our analysis.

Speaker 2 (06:06):
We don't need that.
Let's talk about a companybased on magazines.

Speaker 3 (06:10):
Let's talk about.
How did they not transition theway IGN did?

Speaker 1 (06:14):
Yeah right, like that's their fault.
Let's get into everybody's top10 favorite articles from.
Just kidding, just kidding.

Speaker 4 (06:24):
Back in 2005.

Speaker 1 (06:26):
No, what did game informer mean to you guys?
Because for me it was like Iwas thinking about what, that,
what?
When we decided we were goingto talk about this, I was
thinking about what gameinformer meant to me as a kid.
It was the first mail that Ihad to me yeah, I think and I
felt, like an adult and that waslike one of the things I
appreciated the most about.

Speaker 3 (06:42):
It was like I gotta go check the mail you know, I
think, the game informers outthere, you know, 12 years old
like I gotta go check on my uh,my uh game uh game spot, uh,
whatever game stop subscription.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
Make sure my magazine shows up you know, check the
dailies.

Speaker 4 (07:04):
It was cool to get.

Speaker 3 (07:10):
I was subscribed to Game Informer for almost 10
years.

Speaker 1 (07:13):
What was the name of their?
Was it the Power Pass?

Speaker 4 (07:16):
They had the Power Pass.

Speaker 1 (07:18):
It was the Power Pass , right?
I had this little silver cardin my wallet.

Speaker 3 (07:24):
I had a credit card with GameStop.
It closed itself out because itsat at zero for too long, but I
had a credit card with GameStopfor a while.
I did too.

Speaker 1 (07:32):
I was that level.
I didn't.
But like I always enjoy, Ican't sit there and say I read
that shit from cover to coverevery single month.
But I will say I always enjoyedseeing it because it was like
the top two or three thingsgoing to go on for the next
quarter or whatever.
They were right there on thefront page and you kind of thumb

(07:53):
through it and see it.
You didn't read it to see like,oh, what's the review on this
game?
At least I didn't.

Speaker 3 (08:00):
It was really what's upcoming?

Speaker 4 (08:02):
I would look at what's upcoming but I'd look
forward to reviews on, like,what was already, what just came
out, or something like that I,I did, and I I was a kid, and so
this was this would have beenaround.

Speaker 3 (08:17):
Well, game informers are very recent, so this could
have been last year, but, uh,when I was subscribed to game
informer I was it was like Idon't know 2000, between 2005,
2010, I was actually subscribedto it all the way up until I
remember reading one it was awitcher, the witcher 3 review
was in it.
So, like 2015 was like, andthat was like the last one,

(08:38):
because I just let it, I didn'trenew it, um, but anyways, 2005
is probably like right aroundwhen I first started and as a
kid, um, I didn't like go onyoutube to watch reviews because
I didn't even know what I waslooking for, like.
So, like game informer, I waslike, oh, this a nine had a, 10
I'm buying this immediately.

Speaker 1 (08:57):
This is incredible and at least I'm begging my mom
to buy it immediately.
Yeah, that's how I felt, like II leveraged it was what looks
cool, what had really coolconcept art and then, like
that's what I would, wouldinform my buying decisions.
Yeah, and it's amazing how fastthat was made basically
irrelevant once the internetreally started to pop off with

(09:18):
all its spots because then, likeI had no attachment to game
informer and I think at somelevel it was really just a
marketing thing you knew thatpeople paid for spots in there
and that was that.
So once you found things likereviewers on YouTube or these
niche websites that you wouldreally appreciate this feedback
because you knew they wereunbiased, it was like okay,

(09:40):
shelve that, let's see you lateryeah, and, but not even the
reviews.

Speaker 4 (09:43):
But I would say the final name, the coffin is when
all the gaming companies didn'tgive them like exclusives
anymore, like reveals, so like,because that's where I would
turn to for a lot of like ohshoot, this game's coming out,
yeah, but then they didn't have.
You know like I could get thatinformation a lot easier online

(10:03):
yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (10:04):
I mean we've got a couple things in the chat here,
so loved getting their magazines.
I saved some so many covers.
Some of my favorite games hadcover art on there.
Definitely a solid period ofgaming before the internet
popped off with magazines, slash, other media Exactly what we're
talking about here, right?
I used to love the cover art.

Speaker 3 (10:21):
God, the cover art was cool.

Speaker 1 (10:23):
I probably made more purchasing decisions based on
the cover art than anything else.

Speaker 3 (10:27):
I think gaming cover art like in general, has gone
really downhill.
Like they used to make coversof like on the covers of games,
Like they used to look so muchcooler.

Speaker 4 (10:36):
They had a map inside .

Speaker 3 (10:38):
And now it's like the same thing.
No matter what genre, what game, it's always the same thing.

Speaker 4 (10:42):
every time it's the main character standing looking
cool On a mountain, maybe On amountain or whatever, but that's
it every time there's no coolcover art anymore, it's the same
thing every time I'm trying tothink of what it is on Steam.

Speaker 1 (10:56):
I don't even know if there is cover art.
I think when you go to ahomepage of a Steam game, I
think it launches right into avideo.
I a Steam game, I think itlaunches right into a video.
I think it literally likethere's not even a cover there's
not even a show cover anymore,it's just right into like here's
our promotion pitch for why youshould buy this.
Bring back midnight releasesand game guides damn it.

Speaker 3 (11:17):
Buying a game guide now is just to say you did, but
like you, don't even need themanymore.
Everything's online.
I miss game guides, though Ithink it's one of those things
that the game guides themselveshave been changed.

Speaker 1 (11:29):
In fact, they've probably gotten even more high
quality.
But what has changed is howpeople interact and consume
games.
You don't want a game guide forthe whole fucking game.
You're trying to go for thisone achievement, or how do I go
and get that weapon?
You want to see a four-minuteclip on YouTube that's going to
show you exactly how to getthere.
That's your game guide.
These days, you know to getthat.

(11:50):
I love midnight releases.
Those were so fun.
How many times have we talkedabout midnight releases on this
podcast and how enjoyable theyare?

Speaker 3 (11:57):
Not more than ten, but at least five.

Speaker 1 (12:03):
Some of the best fun I know Did you participate a lot
in them Once.

Speaker 4 (12:09):
It wasn't.

Speaker 3 (12:11):
It was for Kirby Dreamland 2 Yep.
The midnight release party waspretty wild.
It's crazy.

Speaker 1 (12:19):
I feel like I went to some midnight releases and it
was all about the crowd energy.
You would go there A bunch ofnerds If you were standing out
in the cold.
I went to some midnightreleases and it was all about
the crowd energy.
You would go there, a bunch ofnerds, If you were standing out
in the cold and there was noenergy.
And you're next to a64-year-old dude who's
questionable decisions.
Why is everyone in this line15,?

(12:40):
And here's this guy.
What are we doing here?

Speaker 3 (12:42):
That's going to be me soon, I know.
Then that's this guy?

Speaker 1 (12:44):
What are we doing here?
That's going to be me soon, Iknow.
Then that's not fun If there'sfour people in line, or the
people who wait in their car andthen get out at the last second
.
I always loved and I have sevenexamples of this.
You're in line, they're doingtrivia.
Hey, who has this?
Who bought this?
Answer this question and youget this free poster.

(13:07):
Oh, you want some shirt, likejust swag, to like really build
up energy around the gameremember at the game you're
about to buy like oh man at themodern warfare 3

Speaker 3 (13:16):
uh at the midnight release at the mall, which was
awesome because you were indoorsso it wasn't cold 100 um.
They had a call duty contest.
They were like 1v1s and Iforgot what you won, like maybe
a free copy of the game orsomething, um, and it was like
actually, like really fun it wascompetitive too and I remember
your brother.
your brother entered.

(13:37):
He was so mad.
It was xbox, it was on xbox, hewas used to playstation and
he's actually he was really inhis prime, he was really good at
the game.
But he went out like the firstround, yeah, and he like was so,
and he like he was like it'sbecause it was on Xbox and he
was so pissed about it.
But it was not a showcase ofhow good he was.
He was so mad about it.

Speaker 4 (13:58):
He's like I'm about to punk these nerds it's punked.

Speaker 1 (14:02):
Something cool.
Gaming says now games launch at9 pm on a digital store the
night of release.
Well, and then, if you, youknow you don't forget you could
buy the pre-pass and get itthree days early.

Speaker 4 (14:12):
Yeah um you know and reload it.

Speaker 1 (14:15):
Yeah, you could pre-load it, which I all.

Speaker 3 (14:17):
These things are great things, yeah I honestly I
can complain about it, but likeyou probably could.

Speaker 1 (14:23):
Here's the thing pre-order games at GameStop.
Yeah, here's the thing.

Speaker 3 (14:26):
If someone says are you going to go to the midnight
release party for a game, Iwould never bring myself to do
that anymore.
Because like, why would?
I.

Speaker 1 (14:33):
Right, exactly.

Speaker 3 (14:33):
So like it's, like nostalgia goggles for sure.

Speaker 1 (14:36):
100%, I totally agree with that.
But I think it's because of howthey're done.
Like your one experience, youwere like, eh, it was nothing.
I feel like there's ways to goabout doing it.
One of the things I neverunderstood is they didn't let
people into the store.
I always thought that was a badmove.
Especially the big releasewindow was at the end of the
year right, it was cold as shit,let them in store.

Speaker 3 (14:56):
That's why it was fun at the mall.

Speaker 1 (14:57):
Yeah, let them play the fucking game that they're
about to buy or something.
If you can do that I don't knowif legally you can do that but
let them play the game on theconsole and store, or let them
play the prequel to it or dosomething to just get the energy
up.
It's kind of fun to have thatexperience as a community where
you're like with 30 or 40 people.

(15:19):
You've already paid for thegame.
No, there's other games.

Speaker 3 (15:25):
There's.
You've already paid for thegame.
No, like there's like a couplehundred people in line and like
two GameStop workers.
They probably like crowdmanagement is.

Speaker 4 (15:32):
They're jacking all these other off the shelves.
I mean, I know they're all intheir back little cabinet.

Speaker 1 (15:38):
but that's a really negative opinion, I think.

Speaker 4 (15:40):
But that's I think very realistic.

Speaker 3 (15:42):
Very realistic.
I go to midnight releases tosteal games.
I don't think they would go forthat specifically.
But you get a bunch ofteenagers fucking like dude,
let's just fucking take this pop.
You know what I mean.
I could see it happening.

Speaker 1 (15:57):
Ubisoft launching $130 version of games.
Get the hell out of here.
Who wants to pay for a game toplay three days early Garbage.

Speaker 4 (16:04):
You're right, something cool gaming.

Speaker 1 (16:07):
Let's pay $150 to play early.
$150 and I can play five daysearly.
That's what I want to do.
This is where it's going.
What was the Ubisoft game thatdid that?
Assassin's Creed, or something?

Speaker 4 (16:20):
They did that with FIFA and it didn't work.
The game was unplayable EA didthat with.
Fifa.

Speaker 1 (16:27):
Or.

Speaker 4 (16:27):
EA did.

Speaker 1 (16:27):
I was going to say that wasn't Ubisoft.

Speaker 4 (16:30):
Ubisoft probably did it with Black Flag.

Speaker 1 (16:32):
They must have done it with Assassin's Creed.
Yeah, it's all of them now.

Speaker 4 (16:35):
The pirate one Skull and Bones.

Speaker 1 (16:37):
Skull and Bones yeah, that's the one that immediately
jumped out of mind the firstquadruple A game.

Speaker 4 (16:43):
Yeah, first quadruple A.

Speaker 3 (16:46):
Whatever that fucking means.
This is a double D battery game.

Speaker 1 (16:51):
The moment they dropped that line, everyone knew
like okay we're having a badtime.

Speaker 4 (16:56):
I knew way before then it wasn't even.

Speaker 3 (16:59):
Apparently I haven't played it, so this might not be
a fair judgment, but people saidit didn't even have as many
features as Assassin's CreedBlack Flag.

Speaker 1 (17:06):
Yeah, it's true.
It wasn't even as good as BlackFlag.
The entire community isscreaming like give us that.
Don't even have to change it,put it in a new game and that's
fine.
And then they iterated on itand it made it worse.

Speaker 4 (17:19):
No, they didn't iterate.

Speaker 3 (17:25):
That's the thing they , they like, took away backwards
.

Speaker 1 (17:26):
Well yeah that's what I mean.
They, they, they devolved hadtheir own strategic vision.

Speaker 4 (17:28):
Yeah, and it's like like because I I love black flag
, I think.
I mean I know you guys don'tlike ship combat right or kyle
doesn't it's me specifically.

Speaker 3 (17:38):
I don't like naval combat games I really enjoyed it
.

Speaker 4 (17:41):
I thought black Black Flag did it well.
You dropped an L there.

Speaker 3 (17:47):
That was an accident for anyone that was.

Speaker 4 (17:49):
I said the correct one.
I think it did it really well.
I think, skull Bones, I'm goingto put on my conspiracy hat
here.
Ubisoft made a deal inSingapore with Singapore, the

(18:11):
government that they could build.

Speaker 1 (18:15):
Boy, this is deep Buckling.

Speaker 4 (18:19):
They would build.

Speaker 1 (18:22):
Thanks, Cole.

Speaker 4 (18:24):
Got our back.
I appreciate it they couldbuild a place out in singapore,
but they had to produce a game,ubisoft, um.
Use that place to go onvacations like all the big head,
that big wigs, and when it cametime, what the fuck are we?

Speaker 1 (18:43):
I need it.
Keep feeding it, because I'mlost here.

Speaker 4 (18:46):
When it started to come time, where Singapore was
like hey, we let you build thisfacility, where's our game Skull
and bones?
So it was made in the Singapore.
So the higher-ups could go onvacation.

Speaker 3 (19:02):
So it's like how.
Adam Sandler makes movies, yeah, where he finds plot reasons
could go on vacation, so it'slike how Adam Sandler makes
movies, yeah, where he findsplot reasons to be some really
awesome place Okay.

Speaker 1 (19:11):
Quadruple A.
I think so Quadruple A Becausewhen you translate English three
A's in English to Singaporeanit's four A's actually.

Speaker 3 (19:23):
Don't backtrack that.
What if that?
Was like something that simple.

Speaker 1 (19:26):
It's actually quadruple eight, depending on
who you ask.
Okay, well, uh, that's wildpossible let's talk about ips
for a minute, since that we'rekind of touching this what's
that?

Speaker 4 (19:39):
are we done with game informer?

Speaker 1 (19:40):
did you have any closing thoughts on that or?

Speaker 4 (19:42):
I kind of did.
I mean, I think they shouldhave seen the writing on the
wall when g4 tried to come backyeah, um, I don't think they
cared.

Speaker 3 (19:50):
What a shame that that turned into I don't think
they cared.

Speaker 1 (19:53):
I think they, they, they.
They should have seen thewriting on the wall in 2006, you
know, but the reality is, isit's?
I think they just wanted to bewhat they were and let it.
Let it fizzle out until itwasn't was there?

Speaker 3 (20:03):
how was their online presence ever that significant?
No, I mean they had a website,I imagine.
Well, remember they see youimagine

Speaker 1 (20:11):
remember they had like their digital version or
whatever, and it was like that,like you got the copy and the
digital, and I don't think Iever once went to it like as
much as we harp on ign for being.

Speaker 3 (20:22):
How are?
At least they kind of evolvedwith the times.

Speaker 4 (20:26):
Do you remember?
Ign had an app.

Speaker 3 (20:29):
No IGN had an app.

Speaker 4 (20:30):
I used to have it on my iPod Touch.
Any good, it was good.
They had your daily news so youcould see daily game news and
you could click on reviews andit'd have the review.

Speaker 1 (20:39):
I wish we had something like that today.
I'm sure there's still ig.
Well, no, now it's just calledreddit and you go to this gaming
subreddit and that's that's.
It is what it is.
I got rid of reddit game before.
I had a website, youtube andpodcast, live streaming and
probably more wow, so they hadeverything they needed to have
to succeed.

Speaker 4 (20:58):
Just nobody.
Very few people supported, Imean, they were talking about an
audience.

Speaker 3 (21:04):
I don't think we were versed enough in game informer
to know what they were doingbullshit.

Speaker 1 (21:09):
We both had the credit card, that's game stop?

Speaker 4 (21:13):
yeah, but come on, is game stop?
yeah, but like, like you you'retalking about, like they're
fucking vip customers and wedidn't even know about this is
so long ago this is over 10years ago, well, but I think
it's such a niche that, eventhough you were the vip, like we
evolved and I guess it soundslike they tried to evolve but

(21:35):
just never did- nobody I mean Iwasn't versed enough on the
modern game informer other thanlike oh, when I'd look at a new
game like oh, they gave eldenring a 10 cool right.

Speaker 1 (21:46):
But that's what I'm saying.
They did a really shitty job ofshifting their consumers into
that model, because well, wewere entrenched in their
products and had no idea asevidenced by their downfall.
Yeah or didn't care.
I mean, that's, that's thereality.
I think there was just so muchlike it's not, like damn I.
I wish I would have known thatI didn't lose anything, because

(22:09):
I didn't.
Let's just make it that we needto short GameStop again.
Yeah, and then?
Roaring Kitty will havesomething to say about that and
just juice up the market alittle bit more.
Hold, let's talk about IPs fora second.
I forget how I launched, how Iwas triggered into launching,
ubisoft, black ubisoft, theskull and bones assassin's creed

(22:33):
.
There you go.
Thank you, vince vaughn.

Speaker 3 (22:36):
Okay, trump, vince vaughn you're doing the trumping
good.

Speaker 1 (22:40):
I got small hands just good um, vince vaughn just
did an episode of Hot Ones.
Hot Ones is on a streak rightnow.
They've had some really goodback-to-back.

Speaker 4 (22:49):
They had Ryan Reynolds, Hugh Jackman.

Speaker 1 (22:51):
But Vince Vaughn was just on there, I haven't watched
it, yet it was one of the bestHot Ones episodes ever.
That's a lot to claim.

Speaker 3 (22:58):
There's so many good ones, I agree.

Speaker 4 (23:00):
Didn't Sean say this is his last season, though?

Speaker 1 (23:03):
Ever, ever.
Wow, I wonder why.
I wonder what he's going to fitit into.

Speaker 3 (23:08):
Are you friends with him?
I am, you're just cool enoughto be on a first-name basis.

Speaker 1 (23:11):
Sean you know Sean Chee Sean.

Speaker 4 (23:15):
Chee, the white man, sean Evans, yeah, sean Evans.

Speaker 1 (23:18):
Well, hold on.
So he interviewed Vince Vaughnand it was one of the first off.
He was goaded in the terms oflike going through the hot ones
challenge.
Vince Vaughn did better thananyone I've ever seen.
He not only did like a crazy,Better than.
Dj Khaled, oh god, better thanPaul Rudd, which is insane.
He not only doused his lastwing in the last one, he then

(23:42):
went back and doused it in DaBomb, which is never my, I'd
never seen one on his very lastwing.
Do every all in one yeah, but heput them all in one and then
just dipped it into that likehodgepodge.

Speaker 3 (23:59):
So, like he went, he had that and then he went back
and had a dousing of I'm just alittle worried you're
over-hyping this, for when Iwatch it, if it's not the best
Hot Ones episode?

Speaker 4 (24:09):
He is over-hyping it, Kyle.

Speaker 1 (24:12):
I haven't even gotten to the fucking point that I'm
going to You're calling me out.
Listen.
I have severe ADD.
All right, this podcast.
I watched it twice.
Granted, I was kind of workingso I didn't pick up on
everything he was talking about,but I watched it a second time.
That's how awesome it was.

(24:32):
First off, vince Vaughn is justa fun guy.
But he talked about this ideaback to IPs that Hollywood is
struggling with and I think thisis probably going through with
games and publishing companies,because I think they try to
follow the same model.
But but he talked, vince vaughnwas talking about how hollywood
gotten this idea of like everyidea had to be an ip, so yeah so

(24:56):
it was like let's build a story, okay, now let's attach it to
this ip, and he brought up theexample battleship like he's
like it's a board game we played.
Now all of a sudden it's gottabe like a movie.
That's about something else.
But they use the battleship IPcause.
It's recognizable and it's likethe thesis he gives is.

(25:16):
It's like if you're doing mathand you say a right angle is 85
degrees and not 90 degrees, wellall your, the rest of your
geometry is going to be offbecause your base assumption is
wrong and so, like that's howall these decisions like that,
your understanding at afundamental level is off, which
then makes every decision like acascading failure from there.

(25:38):
And so he talked about likejohn hughes movies.
But going back in the day oflike and and I your IP, if you
want to use that language wouldjust be something as simple.
As you know, a girl turning 16or um, you know, kids getting
into a little trouble togetherand something like just things
that we go through as everydaylife, as humans Forget about me

(26:01):
Exactly.
So I thought this was kind ofinteresting because I feel like
we're kind of in that space aslike as public, we're being
thrown a lot of this shit frompublishing companies where they
try to attach things, and it'slike why is that a video game?
Why is it called that?
Um?

Speaker 3 (26:21):
everything has to be the next live service.

Speaker 1 (26:23):
Something right, they're all trying to fit into
that model, because it's likethat's what everyone else is
doing, so and and it's like thistwisted view of making games
and it's like it's the businessside, I think, influencing the
creative side, which it's alittle weird or maybe there's
people I mean, that's triple afor sure.

Speaker 3 (26:42):
but that's also that very mindset that people are
aware of is why indie gamesreally popped off last couple of
years, and they have been morepopular than probably ever.
Because I think consumers areaware of that.
They're aware of the way AAAstudios approach games, and the

(27:04):
freedom to be creative or uniqueor approach things in a new way
just isn't there on AAA.
It's there in indie games, buta studio would never risk a
bunch of money on a concept thatmay or may not succeed, whereas
an indie game they could dothat.
They'd be like let's try this.
This is an experimental way toapproach this, something that

(27:25):
might be fun and unique, and itmay or may not be successful.
If it's not, it's whatever.
We spent all of $1,000developing this.

Speaker 1 (27:34):
So something cool?
Gaming says you have Rockstarand FromSoftware saying fuck you
to the entire industry anddoing what they want and
releasing when they want.
Respect.
I don't know about Rockstar toomuch releasing when they want.

Speaker 3 (27:46):
Respect.
I don't know about Rockstar toomuch With Grand Theft Auto,
yeah, okay.
They do what they want.

Speaker 4 (27:51):
They do what they want, but they're greedy.

Speaker 3 (27:54):
They're very greedy and they catered.

Speaker 4 (27:57):
You think?
Grand Theft Auto's greedy GTOnline, that's.

Speaker 1 (28:03):
Rockstar, I get it, but GTA Online, that's them
reaping the benefits of themhaving success.

Speaker 4 (28:09):
They had expansions planned for Red Dead.
No.

Speaker 1 (28:14):
And they canceled them because they couldn't fit
it to a microtransaction modelright.

Speaker 3 (28:19):
They couldn't.
Yeah, they determined it wasn'tgoing to be profitable enough.
That's great, I love certainRockstar games, though I think
it is.
I can see, okay, rockstar is,they almost are like they

(28:39):
operate on both sides of thefence here.
They develop high-quality,amazing games, um, but they've
also done things in the past,like with shark cards and things
like that where, like, theyfall guilty to all the same shit
that's plaguing all these othertriple a games, um, but there
it's a little bit moreforgivable with them because

(29:00):
they also are just developingthat, that really high tier
pristine, you know single playerexperience, um, and then the
multiplayer.
Then they'll be like we'vegathered all these people, they
love our games.
Now we're gonna fuck you overwith getting you involved into,
like you know, gambling,simulator and things like that.
You know what I mean, so like Ican see, um, they, they do play

(29:23):
on both sides of that yeah, see, and to me, like everybody
knows the day gta6 ships,rockstar is collecting a billion
dollar check.

Speaker 1 (29:35):
Oh yeah, it's probably gonna break records
again I remember the first, Iremember gta5 came out and they,
they did 600 million the dayone, 600 on, I think, pre-orders
and then day one copies sold.

Speaker 3 (29:48):
We looked up the lifetime sales of GTA V at one
point it was insane.
It was like more than any moviethat had ever.

Speaker 1 (29:54):
Don't they still collect like a couple million a
day in terms?

Speaker 3 (29:58):
of daily revenue oh yeah, something crazy yeah.
My problem, I think, isRockstar.
They do put a lot of love andcare into their titles, but
they're also their business, soyou know it's fair.
But they um, they're drivenprimarily by what will net them
the most money and because ofthat they've abandoned some of
they've abandoned things thatpeople love and care about, like

(30:21):
, like red dead.
You know that red dead 2 is thepinnacle of their storytelling
and, um, like their, theirsingle-player gaming.
But they, they abandoned itvery, very quickly because it
wasn't making as much money asgta.
And so from a businessperspective, I mean, it's kind

(30:41):
of obvious why they do that theyhave to make money.
But from the gamers perspective, it is kind of a bummer when
you know like they could stillmake a ton of money on red dead
but they don't.
They didn't continue it because, you know, make a half a
billion dollars versus making abillion dollars you know what I
mean.

Speaker 4 (31:02):
Where should they spend?
their resources and I would say,just being able to watch other
companies do it differently,also kind of help like forms
that opinion or shapes thatopinion for me, like I know, cd
project red they messed up,right they, they shipped
cyberpunk.
It was broken, but they still,they still committed.

(31:22):
They originally had twoexpansions, but to me it makes
sense why they went down to one.
It's because they had to fixthe game first and then, but
they still did an expansion likeand to me that says that says a
lot.
It shows that they, they arestorytellers like and a business
, but they're storytellers Ithink not that rockstar because
they they're storytellers.

Speaker 3 (31:42):
I think not that Rockstar because they're too big
of a company to ever like theywould never release a game.
I don't think I say that now.
We said that about.
CD.
Yeah, I don't think Rockstarwould ever release a single
player.
At least they've had troublewith their multiplayer games,
but they would never release asingle player game in that state
.
But if they had, I think thatthey're the type of company that

(32:03):
would just abandon altogetherand then just focus heavily on
what they're making money in.
They wouldn't sit there andcommit to try and fixing it If
Red Dead 2 was a buggy mess atlaunch.

Speaker 4 (32:14):
There's still bugs in Red Dead 2.

Speaker 3 (32:16):
Yeah, but it's not anything on the level of where
CD Projekt, cd Projekt Red'sCyberpunk was.
But if Red Dead 2 had launchedin the state that, uh, cyberpunk
launched, I think they wouldhave just completely abandoned
it, not tried to fix it andfocused all on red dead or gta
online.
Um, and I think that's thedifference between, like, a
company that there's cd projectis a smaller studio, so they

(32:40):
kind of had to do it to saveface, whereas gta could probably
take a hit like that and stillget by, because I mean, ea and
ubisoft do it all the time.

Speaker 1 (32:49):
Bioware, bioware, yeah um, but thrive on this.

Speaker 3 (32:53):
I think that's the mindset that we're talking about
, uh, on what we like to see outof studios.
You know that it might not bethe most fiscally advantageous
thing to do, but so Red Dead hadno DLC?

Speaker 1 (33:07):
No, did Red Dead 2 have any DLC?

Speaker 3 (33:11):
Oh, no, red Dead 1 did have a DLC.
Okay, it had Undead Nightmare,which is actually really really
good.

Speaker 1 (33:17):
Amazing Red Dead 2 pretty much launched, had a top
tier story, good campaign, andthen and then and then they just
didn't do anything with it yeah, I think my opinion is like I
think gamers need to kind ofstop almost like worshiping not
worshiping, but like simping tothese kind of these corporations

(33:39):
you know as much as we do whereit's like, oh, why couldn't you
do that?
because it would be so awesome,and it's just like well, like
these companies, they havefinite resources and, of course,
sitting down, like you, youwant to, if you're, if you're
running a business, right, yourdecision is what's going to have
like the highest rate of return, and there's a way to go about
doing that that doesn'tsacrifice short-term beliefs for

(34:01):
, like long-term mistakes, right?
So like the idea is likerockstar could have shipped gta6
four years ago, could have beenbroken, doesn't matter, they'd
clip that billion dollar checkjust because the name alone, and
have a nice fucking day youknow, and that would be a
short-term decision to make thatmoney, but it'd be a long-term

(34:22):
mistake because they couldn't doa gta7.
So now it's like they have tobalance that money, but it'd be
a long-term mistake because theycouldn't do a GTA 7.
So now it's like they have tobalance that of quality and
quantity and decision-makingwith what they're going to do.
And I think obviously GTA 5online is one of the most
profitable things that existsand it's wildly successful and
there's hundreds of thousands ofpeople that still engage with

(34:43):
that content.
So I don't blame them forfunneling resources into that,
as a business.
I don't blame it at all.
Yeah, right, yeah, exactly.
And so, like I think I feellike this happened this occurs a
lot of times is like us, asgamers, we want to.
We, because you enjoy an ip somuch, and you're like, oh, I

(35:04):
want to have more content, andthen, when people move on, you
kind of have that void.
I think this kind of goes intowhat I was talking about last
week.
That's why I like the liveservice model, because
technically, it's always stillalive, at least if it's done
well.
The games that I've played likeGuild Wars 1 came out
20-something years ago.
It came out like 20 years ago,19 years ago, um, like I could

(35:27):
still go and play that, you know, and still experience all that
same stuff that I love.
I like that.
I like that I could still goonline and there's people
playing it and it's not gettingshut down.
I mean, I see this stuffnowadays where these live
service games from these ultramega greedy corporations.
They published these games andthen abandoned them in four

(35:50):
years and then the people thatdid suffer through it and found
some enjoyment in it get fuckedover because they can't even do
it.

Speaker 3 (35:58):
It's literally a cyberpunk happening before our
very eyes.

Speaker 1 (36:00):
Yep, it's sad, it's really sad.

Speaker 4 (36:04):
Well, I want to go back to the movie, the Vince
Vaughn thing.
Did you guys have anything elseto say about?

Speaker 3 (36:10):
the side tangent we were on Nope.

Speaker 4 (36:13):
So I want to go back to the IPs.
I think that I don't rememberif you said it was solely to
blame the movie companies.
I think general audience takesa lot of the blame for that.
Yeah, because the market adaptsto what the general audience

(36:34):
likes, and so these big name,big action IPs of like Marvel.
They sell Versus back in the day, you know, like Ferris Bueller.
Or you know they sell Versusback in the day like Ferris
Bueller or Sweet 16, I felt likeit was a time when you could
release those because therewasn't other stuff.
That was like Not everythingwas a brand, yeah.

(36:56):
But now the general audiencehas said we like this and we'll
go see that guaranteed.

Speaker 3 (37:02):
Movies that just want to be good for the sake of one
movie just don't release intheaters anymore either.
It's like Netflix, Amazon theydon't want to take the risk on
doing a theatrical releasebecause they're going to have to
compete with the next billiondollar, 500 million dollar
budget film.

Speaker 4 (37:18):
Well, I'm sure they have studies that show that that
risk isn't even like.
There's no reason to take it.
But I think that.

Speaker 1 (37:28):
I think it's an absolute loss.
I think that that's.
I actually don't think that theblame is on on the consumer on
this at all.
No, because I think that that'sthe exact thing that vince
vaughn is arguing against.
The idea is okay, you pair like.
That's the twisted idea that Ithink he's like saying is
fundamentally flawed, which isoh, you pair it up with this.
That's the twisted idea that Ithink he's like saying is
fundamentally flawed, which isoh, you pair it up with this big
brand Battleship is the one hetold about and people go see it

(37:51):
because they're like oh,Battleship, you know, and they
recognize it.
Again, I think that only worksin the short term.
Then people, two or three timesin, get burned and it's like
they wisen up to it and now it'slike no one's going to go see
Battleship 2.

Speaker 3 (38:06):
Or no one's going to go see, I kind of like the first
Battleship.
I'm not going to lie.
Yeah, I was going to say you'dbe surprised.

Speaker 1 (38:12):
I didn't even know.
It's just like dumb fun General.

Speaker 3 (38:15):
I mean Lee Neeson's in it, for some reason.

Speaker 1 (38:18):
But I don't think at the end of the what has staying
power in terms of a film thathas an impact on culture, or
staying power in terms ofgenerating revenue downstream, I
think it's a short-term winthat produces no long-term
results.
So I think the logic is flawed.

Speaker 3 (38:37):
I don't know, though, because I don't know if it is
short-term, because they've beendoing this since 2000.
I would say the first moviethat really kind of did this,
that what the thing you'retalking about is probably
transformers yeah, that's kindof when we started um 2007 and
pretty much from 2007 till now.
That has been the mindset andso I don't think there's been in

(38:59):
.
They haven't really experiencedup until very, very, very
recently with all the marvelfilms.
Uh, they haven't reallyexperienced the downside like
the talking about the like.
I think and I don't even know ifthat's people are burnt out on
that style of movie.
I think that people are.
I think the quality of thosefilms have gone down.

Speaker 4 (39:18):
Oh, yeah, is what it is especially when you look at
like wolverine and deadpool.

Speaker 3 (39:23):
Yeah, the quality on that one's a lot more on par or
even above par but I think whatyou're arguing is that the they
will continue to do this as longas it makes them money, which
ultimately is on the, theconsumer and the market will
shift and you know if they stopgoing, if they stop treating

(39:44):
these ip films like they're, youknow, like peak cinema sacred
and start giving these otherfilms a chance, like you know,
like they used to in the 80s and90s, then it might shift, uh,
what people are focused on.

Speaker 1 (39:59):
But I, I would, but I would push back and argue in a
sense of let's take it before.
I think Wolverine and Deadpoolhas done a lot to repair a lot
of things.
Mcu is one.

Speaker 3 (40:10):
For the IP film.

Speaker 1 (40:12):
So let's shelve that.
Let's have this argument twomonths ago.
What do you think the state ofcinema is?
I would say it's probably notin the best of shape.
To be honest, as a whole, in myopinion.

Speaker 3 (40:25):
No, I agree with you, but I think maybe the reason
why I think, yeah, the reasonwhy is, I think, the quality.

Speaker 1 (40:34):
You guys are arguing the quality has dropped because
they're just leaning on the IPto carry the movie and that's.
You don't get anythinginteresting from that.
Who gives a shit?
if it's you don't go to see themovie because you want to see
somebody playing Battleship.
You know, I know I'm using thatexample or whatever, but the
quality has dropped and I think,as such, I'm not as motivated

(40:55):
to go wait in line and seethings at the movie theater,
because I just wait for it toget at home, so then the market
would adjust.
Exactly.

Speaker 4 (41:03):
That's what I'm saying, if enough people.

Speaker 1 (41:05):
And I think here we are for so many years.

Speaker 4 (41:11):
This is where I'm agreeing with Vince.
We've made this.

Speaker 1 (41:15):
What's all these first names Sean, mr Vince, mr
Vaughn so many decisions for somany years?
Because it worked and it wasthe lazy way and it was late.
It was like the lazy way towork and get it done and I think
that industry sort of took ahit because that was that's what
everything was funneled into.
I think we might even be in thesame kind of thing with video

(41:36):
games.
Right like we see a lot of likestale shit coming out because
it's like well, this, we knowthis will work less risk, we
know we can squeeze this out.
And it's like well, this, weknow this will work less risk,
we know we can squeeze this out.
And it's just simple, we we'recomfortable with that's why
we're just talking.

Speaker 3 (41:50):
That's why the indie game is starting to surge
exactly I think that gamers area little bit better at shifting
the well there's they're louder.

Speaker 1 (42:01):
Sports they're louder .
They're still FIFA, they'relouder.
They're fucking louder.

Speaker 3 (42:05):
Gamers as consumers, I think, are a little bit more
vocal.
They have a little bit morepower and effect on making
change than, I would say, movieconsumers are.

Speaker 1 (42:17):
They're the worst clients to have.

Speaker 3 (42:19):
They are but if CD Projekt Red was a film studio
and they released a bad movie,they would be like oh fuck it.
You know it happens, it is whatit is, you move on.
Yeah, but you know that justthat doesn't happen in gaming.
If you release a bad game, youfucking fix that shit.
It's like cd yeah so, like thefilm equivalent would be like if
you released a bad film, youdoubling down and making a

(42:42):
sequel to that film to make itbetter well, and not only that.

Speaker 4 (42:45):
If you release the bad, like if you release a bad
game on the internet for years,people are gonna shit on your
company versus pacific rim 2 isass, but you don't hear me
saying legendary, thosemotherfuckers legendary is let
me down no, I think if yourelease a bad game, it's forever

(43:06):
bad.

Speaker 1 (43:07):
Honestly, I don't think it ever fully recovers.
I know you gave your example ofno Man's Sky or whatever.
That had a shitload of updatesover time.

Speaker 4 (43:17):
I was just more saying gamers are going to hold
on to it forever, forever versusa movie, but it's also
different a movie there's a lotmore.
There's different people thattake the blame, like for pacific
two, I blame the writers andthe director versus legendary,
because I I understand thatlegendary is just like the, the

(43:41):
money, you know, the wallet,wallet.
But then even then, I don'tremember writers.

Speaker 3 (43:46):
But we also don't blame the studios for bad films
either.

Speaker 4 (43:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (43:50):
You know like we blame studio game studios for
bad games Like CD Projekt.

Speaker 4 (43:54):
how could you do this to me?

Speaker 3 (43:55):
It's like on the director but yeah, but like if
you see a bad movie you don't goout of it and you're like fuck
Universal, I'm never watching aUniversal film again.

Speaker 1 (44:05):
You of it and you're like fuck universal, I'm never
watching a universal film again.
You see, bad they've scorned meone too many times.
That's weird.

Speaker 4 (44:08):
Yeah, that is really weird huh I think, there's more
degrees of separation I feellike that too.

Speaker 1 (44:14):
It's like it's its own isolated box and it's like
they just fun.
It would be like if you blamedthis happens in the game
industry.
You blame the publisher forthat bad developer, but we do,
we do.
God gamers suck If you're justtuning in we're bitching about

(44:35):
gamers.
Be sure to like and subscribeif you already haven't.
Good to see everybody.
If you're a gamer, fuck you.
If you're a gamer fuck, you Getout.

Speaker 3 (44:42):
No, stay please 90%.
We're like a marvel slashgaming podcast oh god, that's so
true.

Speaker 1 (44:51):
It is interesting to see how everybody the gamers are
.
I play games with that.
People have spent 20, 30 000hours in and if you talk to them
about the game you think theyfucking hated the damn thing.
You know because they knowevery little thing wrong with it
.

Speaker 4 (45:08):
But then there's also stuff.
I mean I guess you see thiswith movies.
I would say you see thosemovies more of like, of like I
was saying with fifa or maddenor like any type of like.
The even call of duty now isalmost getting to the level of
it's like me from an outsideperspective.
I'm like guys, like why are youstill supporting this game?

(45:30):
Like this is garbage.
No, but they do.

Speaker 3 (45:35):
I know people could say that like as us, and Marvel
films for, like the last fiveyears, four years.
But look at Wolverine, I know,but that's what it's the same
thing like everyone's one goodone, like every once in the blue
, like we I mean, I'vedefinitely died down a little
bit on like that, because Inever even saw like the third

(45:56):
ant-man or you know, because Ihad a lot of fatigue there but
like um, that's basically likethe same thing is like buying
every Call of Duty and then oncein every 10 years you get like
that war zone.
That kind of pops off a littlebit and then it goes back to,
you know, kind of being shit andthat's kind of what has been
happening to Marvel a little bit.

(46:17):
And I know we were last podcast, we were excited about the
future of Marvel and I still am,but there's no denying that
like the quality really reallyI'm excited for the long-term
future of marvel yeah not theshort term not short term yeah,
they still have two ones and I'mlike oh, but like I think,

Speaker 4 (46:35):
um, daniel, good to see you I think a lot of that
too and this can be applied togaming is if the company takes
their time, and that's what,like that's what happened with
Marvel, is what Bob Iger orwho's the yeah, yeah, bob Iger,
that's the Disney CEO.
Yeah, he came in and he put hisfoot down for.
Marvel to slow down and I thinkthat's going to help

(46:55):
tremendously.
I don't think it affectedWolverine and Deadpool at all.
I'm sure that was in the workway before he came in and said
that.

Speaker 3 (47:02):
But I think that'll.

Speaker 1 (47:03):
I think because it was a fox film really, and then
it became a disney film but Iwonder if someone objectively
studied these things and if thequality really did dip or it was
just simply over saturation Ithink the quality did it I do
agree, I definitely think so.
But how much is it?
How much did it drop?

(47:24):
If you were just objectivelysome way you were able to
measure that, how much did itdrop?
And how much was justobservation bias of just there
being so much?

Speaker 3 (47:36):
Because it did drop, it felt weird.
Well, that was a huge part ofit, for sure.

Speaker 1 (47:41):
You came from this high of like in all three of our
opinions.
Peak cinema, I mean.
That was like that was freakingchef's kiss, clap it up, you
know.
Standing ovation in the theater.
Shit To what was the immediatemovie after that no Way Home.
Okay, well, see, that'sterrible that was still good.
No, it wasn't fucking Endgame,it wasn't.

Speaker 3 (48:04):
Endgame.
It's just because of spider-man, let's move on 100 was it as
good?
As end game no no but it was itwas good.
Why would I mean?
That'd be like saying, doctor,strange 2 was yes, it was as
good as end game, you know whatI mean like some games are bad.

Speaker 1 (48:22):
Some bad games are nostalgia.
I'm not sure what that means,just some bad like you enjoy to
play.

Speaker 3 (48:28):
Well, yeah, there's games that we look back on
fondly, that if we went back andactually played and like looked
at it like you know like thisgame sucks like, and we compared
it to games.

Speaker 1 (48:38):
Now it's like it isn't as good as like you ever
go back and play a game and youyou I'm talking like a really
old game and you go.

Speaker 3 (48:49):
I used to think the graphics were pretty good and,
like you're looking at andyou're like that shit is so bad
like I can't even read that youknow what I experienced that
most with, like very recently,actually star wars, star wars
battlefront I because I was likeI remember I used to sit here
and play single player star warsbattlefront, star wars

(49:10):
battlefront 2 for hours a dayand when they relaunched or
re-released star warsbattlefront, I was like, okay,
multiplayer is broken, but Istill loved the game single
player, so I'll probably stillplay it.
I played like two matches and Iwas like this is kind of like
boring as fuck and like I don'tremember being boring when I

(49:32):
like what.
Like.
Do you know what?

Speaker 1 (49:34):
it is tastes shifted so hard um I honestly think it
it's shooters.
I don't enjoy shooters anymore.
I really don't.

Speaker 3 (49:46):
I've played.
I think I could still have funwith shooters.

Speaker 1 (49:49):
We played Helldivers and I thought the combat Well,
the combat wasn't really thatgreat, but I liked the great
game design.
I could appreciate it.
I thought it was really cool.
The combat needed to be alittle more dynamic.
It was really stiff and I justcouldn't fully submit to it.
I've really stiff and I justcouldn't fully submit to it.
We've I've played some of thenew call of duties.

Speaker 4 (50:10):
I've played warframe on and off, for you know years
what warframe to me is honestlynot good shooter likewise I know
I was still one of the mostpopular games out there it's not
my cup of tea, but to me, likeI would ask, I ask.

Speaker 1 (50:23):
I know the whole game .
I would agree.
Well, yeah, I was going to ask.

Speaker 4 (50:27):
I know you don't like Destiny, but how did you feel
about the shooting aspect?
Because I think to me that'slike shooting shooters that's
pretty high up at like top ofthe game of what a shooter is
supposed to feel like Okay, soif I'm speaking objective,
taking my opinion of Destiny,out of it which actually is not
a negative opinion.

Speaker 1 (50:47):
I think it's a fine game.
I on paper I would like thecombat system of destiny more,
or it needs to have somemechanic like call of duty is
where the pace of combat is sohigh that that's now something
that you can train and getbetter at.
One of the things that I don'tlike about certain shooters like

(51:09):
Helldivers or even Warframe orany of these other games that
are very stiff and rigid I don'tlike.
This is going to probablytrigger a bunch of people, but,
like Valorant, for example, Idon't like the gameplay of that.

Speaker 4 (51:20):
Or CSGO we just lost all our subscribers, because
that game to me is no.

Speaker 2 (51:27):
We have to start over .
Damn it, we're going to startfrom scratch.

Speaker 1 (51:30):
That game, to me, is much more tactical in the sense
of holding angles and being veryquick and accurate with your
aim.
And that, to me, is just howmuch time you're willing to
brute, force your way into thatgame To know every angle, to
know what pixel to line yourcrosshair up so that you hit the
headshot.
That's not interesting to me.

(51:51):
I want something that I canlogically progress and
accelerate and not just memorizepositions.
That's why I like the Call ofDuty model, because there's an
athleticism, there's a reactionspeed.
You could slide, cancel, youcan be mobile and kit, mobile-y
where you can influence yourgameplay.

Speaker 3 (52:09):
I would argue, overwatch is very much like that
as well.

Speaker 1 (52:12):
Overwatch is depending on which champion you
play.
Absolutely.
So I like those level of gamesand with Destiny I think it's
the opposite.
Not much on the movement side,it's much more of how you gear
and spec your character and usethe abilities for it.
So that's where it kind of getsinteresting.

Speaker 4 (52:32):
Like gunplay, Because Bungie to me, Bungie, that's
the one good thing that I canalways rely on is it's going to
feel good to shoot a gun.

Speaker 1 (52:43):
It never felt satisfying because everything is
just sort of like a damagesponge in that game.

Speaker 3 (52:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:48):
And you see a thousand numbers and you're like
all right, I don't know, itdidn't have that satisfying like
head shot.

Speaker 3 (52:54):
You know what I think ?
What I think, like the likepeak first-person shooter
mechanics is actually Doom.

Speaker 4 (53:03):
See, I would agree, but I think I don't think it's
peak.

Speaker 3 (53:12):
Well, tell us Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal both they
give you that feeling you'retalking about it's all
reactionary, it's veryfast-paced, you never stop, it's
very smooth.

Speaker 1 (53:25):
And you feel paced, yeah, um you're never smooth
animation never stop.

Speaker 3 (53:26):
It's very smooth and you feel, if you get good at
that game, you feel like anunstoppable juggernaut of like
pure anger and power.
And no other game first personshooter wise has pulled that off
as successfully, I think, asdoom epic music yeah, it's like
fucking metal music and it's youversus an army of Satan's

(53:47):
minions, Like I think that thatfeels.
As far as first-person shootersgo, Doom Eternal feels the best
to me.

Speaker 1 (53:58):
But I think, going back to like the you were
talking about how, like, have Iaged out of that or can I get
interested in that For me?
I think you I aged out of thator, you know, can I get
interested in that For me?
You think you've aged out of it.
I think I've aged out ofshooters.
I just am not.
I feel like it's just beenthere done that.
I don't know how you can evolvegun gameplay more than what you

(54:18):
have.
I don't think you can really,that's what.
I'm saying, Like what are yougoing to get?
Better accuracy or bettervisuals?

Speaker 4 (54:27):
I mean, you don't think?

Speaker 3 (54:29):
Doom is peak.

Speaker 4 (54:31):
I think it's peak for its flavor of shooting.
I think it's a flavor ofshooting and I think that I
think there's different flavorsof shooting.
I think Doom it works reallywell for it and I love Doom, but
to me like really well for itand I love doom but to me like I
don't know necessarily if it'slike a good shooter or it's a
good shooter, but it's like it'sa different flavor, it's a more

(54:53):
aggressive, more arcadey, youliterally get health back by
killing people.

Speaker 3 (54:58):
Yeah, it's like you have no choice but to be
aggressive.

Speaker 4 (55:01):
It's its own flavor and they do it really well.
But to me that doesn't make itpeak.
I don't know if there is a peak, like I was saying with bungie,
it's not that it's the peak,it's just.

Speaker 3 (55:11):
I know that's the one thing they do well, at least
for me I guess it depends onwhat you're trying to accomplish
, right, because that style thatdoom does.
I don't think that they do havean online component to doom,
but I don't think that thatstyle really makes online that
good.

Speaker 1 (55:27):
You know what, the more I think about this.
What is peak gun gameplay?
And I know if something coolgave me you're still in the chat
Apex Legends.
For me, the reason is I couldnever get into it.
I'm sorry.
The reason is there's animmense gun variety.
The entire game skill cap isbased around movement, which is

(55:48):
so hard to get really good at inthat game, which is I've dumped
200 hours in that game and I Iam.
I might have a 0.3 kd in thatgame and that's not even an
exaggeration, because I was justterrible but that had really.
But again, it it was the gamemode, which is the the Battle
Royale 3 versus all stylegameplay that makes that game

(56:11):
interesting.
It's not the gun gameplay.
So I don't know how you could.
I know that there's a couple gunMMOs on the horizon.
There's two of.
I can't think of the name, butI know that there's two touted
as coming out.
Who knows about this shit?
But I don't know what a gungame needs.

(56:36):
The gameplay of itself, of zoomin and fire, I just don't.
I've seen it all.
I've played it my whole life.
It doesn't evolve like.
It's just not interesting.
So maybe a game that introducesmore game systems around, like
supporting the game so it actsmore like an mmo might be

(56:57):
interesting, but the gameplayfor me needs to have more than
point and click, and that's whatgun gameplay will always come
down to.

Speaker 4 (57:06):
But so my, I would argue that you aren't growing
out of shooting, you're just ata time where you don't find any
interesting, because the reasonI would argue that is that all
games pretty much stem from like.
If I had to try and think of itlike, uh, for gameplay styles,

(57:28):
we have shooters, we haveplatform, we have puzzle, puzzle
and strategic, strategic, maybe, like, and that's like, every
single game goes off of thoseinto Falls into one of those
games Into one of those.
And I think shooters, they justneed to do something to

(57:50):
reinvigorate you or make theright combination.

Speaker 3 (57:52):
I would agree with that Because I don't think
you've grown out of it.

Speaker 4 (57:54):
I think it's just right now the formula's gone
stale.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (57:57):
I 100% agree with that.
Like I think the Battle Royalegenre saved first-person
shooters because I think thewhole team deathmatch thing I
was done with years ago.
Then Battle Royales came outand you see things like Fortnite
and you're like that looksfucking fun.
That's a really cool concept.
We need that.
We need some kind of next-stepevolution.

Speaker 4 (58:15):
I don't know what that is, because Battle Royales
are sort of already super epicum, well, and like you, look at
um, for example, another genrelike zelda, breath of the wild,
that kind of took something thatwas, I mean, it wasn't dying,
but it was a very stale yeahformula of like oh, it's another

(58:36):
zelda game, you go to dungeonsand then they blew it up and
it's like, and I don't know,yeah, how do.

Speaker 3 (58:42):
I don't know how they even do that to a shooter, you
know.
So it's not like we have theanswers on what they need to do,
but I think that battle royales, like you said it, it did bring
a lot of faith back in thefirst person not just first
person shooters in general, um,but then that got really
saturated and stale over thecourse of like a year and then I

(59:04):
guess they tried to go to likehero shooters.
Yeah, with a hero shooter likein overwatch and um, let's start
with the one that failed reallyquickly.
It launched the same time asoverwatch, um uh oh god, it's
made by the same people that um,oh god, was it valve that made
it was it valve, or was it?

(59:25):
Right, I don't remember therewas one.
There was a game that launchedthe exact same time as overwatch
and it was almost like the samething and it had a lot of, and
it failed so quick wow I, Idoubt it was right.

Speaker 1 (59:38):
Right, anything riot does goes gold.

Speaker 3 (59:40):
It seems like um I'm going to look at this Battleborn
.

Speaker 1 (59:47):
Battleborn.
I didn't even know what it was,that's right.
Yeah, it was Gearbox.

Speaker 4 (59:51):
Gearbox.

Speaker 3 (59:52):
Yeah, and they were.
There was so much hype behindit and it looked like it was
going to be really good.
And then Overwatch came out andwas like a better version of it
and then just completelydwarfed.
It was like a better version ofit and then just completely, uh
, dwarfed it.
But battleborn and overwatch, Iwould argue, were like the
first two, like hero shootersyeah, man it's.

Speaker 1 (01:00:15):
I don't know what that next step in evolution is,
but you're absolutely right.
Like I need something to get meexcited about it.
I need that, that new curveball, whatever that is.

Speaker 3 (01:00:24):
Um, I don't get super hyped on shooters either, but
I'll still.
I mean right now the only gamesthat I I mean RPGs, of course,
but the only games I can go inevery time in the formula and
not change at all and I'm stillokay with, is fighting games.

Speaker 4 (01:00:41):
What about platformers like Mario?

Speaker 3 (01:00:44):
No, I get pretty burnt out on yeah, yeah, but
like I, I just recently redid aplaythrough of mk1 because
they're launching an expansionin september and I forgot dude,
I fucking love that game.
Like world combat is so goodreally it's so good.
And I'm not even really thatgood at um fighting games.

(01:01:05):
Like I, I could barely beat thecampaign in normal and like I,
I have.
I struggle with that, but Istill have a lot of fun with it.
And um, I'll play online, getmy ass kicked, but I love
fighting games and mortal kombat.
Um, especially this last one,mortal kombat.
One had like one of the beststories, not just in fighting

(01:01:25):
games but in gaming.
It's really good and peoplekind of sleep on that because
it's a fighting game.
It's not like it's known for itscampaign.
Yes.

Speaker 1 (01:01:36):
No, I like my high fantasy.
I like my high fantasy withmagic.
There's magic in Mortal Kombat.
There are sorcerers.
I'm not saying it's not, I'mjust telling you what my genre,
that I like is that's.
That's my genre.
It's high fantasy, magic shiteverywhere.

Speaker 4 (01:01:53):
Dynamic combat systems I feel like I'm pretty
open to to all genres see, likeI mean, if I were, I'm coming up
with this on the spot.
Let's make the game now.
You combine FPS with magic, butnot the game that they already
made.

Speaker 1 (01:02:10):
Iverdum or whatever.

Speaker 4 (01:02:12):
Immortum, immortals.
Whatever that one was called,they're first-person wizards.
Yeah, no, we have real guns.

Speaker 1 (01:02:19):
Wizard bullet yeah.
And then you Just shootingenergy, plus Enhanced with magic
, it yeah.
And then you, you're justshooting and like a machine gun
50, 50 50 dylan.

Speaker 3 (01:02:29):
That game sounds terrible.
Immortals of avernum avernum itwas god came out.

Speaker 4 (01:02:36):
You guys remember what I'm talking about it was
exactly that.
It was like you were you shot.

Speaker 3 (01:02:40):
That was like um harry potter and the deathly
part two the game it was athird-person shooter.

Speaker 1 (01:02:49):
Fps.
Magic is just Skyrim.
Something Cool Gaming says.

Speaker 3 (01:02:52):
It was worse, in Harry Potter and the Deathly
Hallows, part 2, it's athird-person shooter.
And so your wand?
It literally shoots bullets.

Speaker 1 (01:03:03):
What are they?
Just mod A like a shooter.

Speaker 3 (01:03:06):
No, that was not the game.

Speaker 4 (01:03:07):
Yeah probably but you're like expelliarmus, yeah,
and you're like literallyshooting from behind, fucking
recoil, like, and that's whatI'm picturing, yeah I will say
um, there is a game that I thinkcame out, that it's I guess you
could classify it as a firstperson shooter that I really
like the idea and I want them todo more of, because it took the

(01:03:31):
idea of.
Battle for Bikini Bottom.
It took that idea of Immortals,of Avernum or whatever that
game is called, where it's likefirst person magic.
Oh boy what's it called?
It's in tokyo well, anywayskyle, can you look it up while I

(01:03:56):
try to explain it.
What's it called?

Speaker 3 (01:03:58):
it's mortals of avernum.

Speaker 4 (01:03:59):
No, it's uh, ghost ghostwire, tokyo ghostwire, oh
yeah, yeah, I really enjoyedthat and I thought that one was
different enough of like itwasn't just a straight up like I
had machine guns for hands.
It felt like I was castingactual spells, like because
you'd like you'd hold to chargeand like, um, you had this way,

(01:04:21):
this water spell that would likeslice, and then he had like a
fire spell that was almost likeum, uh, like it was like a, like
a rocket launcher obviously,but you'd fire it and you'd like
had to, you had to switchbetween them and you could like
it.
I don't know, it worked for mea little bit better than
immortals of avernum and I Ithink it is a good idea.

(01:04:42):
I think it needs to be workedon and done right.
Right, I think that would bereally cool, because magic is
cool and if you could somehowMagic is cool.

Speaker 1 (01:04:51):
Magic is cool, warping is cool.

Speaker 4 (01:04:52):
Yeah, join us, but if you could turn that
first-person shooter somehow andnot make it like I have machine
guns for hands.
I think you could make it work.

Speaker 1 (01:05:06):
No, I don't know.
I don't know if I.

Speaker 3 (01:05:10):
Immortals of Avion.

Speaker 1 (01:05:11):
Maybe it's first-person games that I don't
like.

Speaker 4 (01:05:14):
You don't like first-person games.
What about hack and?

Speaker 1 (01:05:17):
slash.
There's definitely games that II'm not going to say I hate all
first-person games because Ihave something against it, but I
think I just If I'm not goingto say I hate all first-person
games because I have somethingagainst it, but I think I just
If I'm going to have my fantasygame that I want.
I don't want to fucking seehands casting spells all day
long.
I want to see my character.
I want to be able to position.

Speaker 4 (01:05:37):
It changes the gameplay.

Speaker 1 (01:05:40):
Now I have this view of, like I'm controlling the
environment.
No, I mean, definitely I'mlooking through that lens, for
sure, but I'm controlling, like,my situation where I stand,
like the combat, is way moredynamic and interesting than
when my field of view is thisBecause I got half my screen for
waving hands, like I don't.

Speaker 3 (01:06:02):
I want to be able to get in in the environment so I'm
not a huge fan of first-persongames either, um, unless it's
like, I'll forgive it if thegame is really good and the
story's really good, um, but Iremember way back when cyberpunk
was still in development, whenthey announced it was going to
be a first-person game, Iremember thinking, like man,

(01:06:25):
like I was hoping it was gonnabe third person, um, and then I
ended up, you know, lovingcyberpunk.
But, uh, I'm kind of in thesame boat.
Like I, I'll forgive firstperson if, like, the game is
good and the story's good, thecampaign's good, but it's not my
primary preference in gamingdaniel says what about vr?
I have no experience in VRgaming.

Speaker 4 (01:06:45):
I think it still needs a few years of like.

Speaker 1 (01:06:48):
I don't think it'll ever get there, no, Never.
I'm kind of turning on it.
I think VR is really cool.
I just I don't.
I just don't see it reallyplaying out Like you can have an
incredible experience with VRand it could be totally unique,

(01:07:12):
but I think once you have it'slike 3D movies, Like wow, that's
really cool.
I'd rather just see it on aregular screen now, Like it's
undoubtedly if you're watchingthe same content.
3d is more interactive, right?
Undoubtedly, but we stillchoose 2d movies, right?

Speaker 3 (01:07:32):
unless vr kind of what vr is truly puts you into
the universe.
I don't think it's ever gonnabe comes like ready player one
if it becomes like ready playerone, then it's going to be
better.

Speaker 1 (01:07:43):
I don't want to have to put on a whole helmet and
sensors and have this wholecrazy setup and standing up.
I want to sit in my chair, butif you put a helmet on and you
are truly in that world, likesensory Like full body sensors.

Speaker 3 (01:08:03):
It's indistinguishable from the real
world.
That's the level I need VR tobe before I like consider.

Speaker 1 (01:08:10):
But even then, what you'll do is you'll get into
that and then you will then playyourself.
Who then grabs a controller andplays the game.

Speaker 3 (01:08:20):
I would love like if they put me into Skyrim's
universe, you're a third personto you, right or Cyberpunk?
Or Elden Ring.
Imagine how terrifying EldenRing would be in that world.
You have all the energy andstamina of the character in the
game so you can level up, so youfeel like I feel so good right
now.

Speaker 4 (01:08:41):
Imagine any one of those games, how the potential
of if it fully put you in thegame you could like, in
cyberpunk for example, you could.
You could walk up to somebody,an enemy, with the gun behind
your back, you like, you couldactually sneak it, just you know
yeah, but all of the examplesthat we're talking about is cool
.

Speaker 1 (01:09:00):
once you're taught, yes, it is Then immediately it
wears off.

Speaker 4 (01:09:06):
If I'm in the game.

Speaker 1 (01:09:07):
No, it's not cool anymore If I'm in the game.

Speaker 3 (01:09:11):
No, it's not cool anymore.
It'll wear off.

Speaker 1 (01:09:16):
It won't.
It'll fucking wear off, Iguarantee it.
You'll have to spend $10,000 tohave that experience.

Speaker 3 (01:09:23):
I think we will never experience this in our
lifetimes.

Speaker 4 (01:09:26):
To verify the madness of what you just I don't think
we're gonna get.
I don't think you understandthe level we're talking of, like
you're in the game, like itprobably wires into your brain
and what the fuck?

Speaker 1 (01:09:37):
okay, now we're getting to that level.
Okay, you are in the realityuniverse.
Your reality has changed it.

Speaker 3 (01:09:44):
It's the Matrix, that's what we're talking about,
and when you're like, thenovelty will wear off.
No, it's like the Matrix.

Speaker 1 (01:09:52):
I still think the novelty will wear off, even in a
Matrix situation.

Speaker 3 (01:09:56):
If you could experience flying like Superman,
that would wear off.

Speaker 1 (01:10:02):
I can go to Disneyland right now and go to
their flying simulator thing.
No.

Speaker 3 (01:10:06):
There's no technology that would allow you to
actually fly the simulators.
I'm talking like you put onthis helmet and you have the
powers of Superman.
That's what I'm Like.
It's not a game.
It's indistinguishable from,and you're like I honestly think
it means nothing.
A game.
It's indistinguishable from,and you're like I honestly think

(01:10:27):
it means nothing to me.

Speaker 1 (01:10:28):
I honestly think the novelty would wear off.

Speaker 3 (01:10:30):
I'd rather play Guild Wars 1.

Speaker 1 (01:10:33):
I honestly think the novelty will wear off.
It'll be cool.
It's not a novelty anymore.
It's not.

Speaker 3 (01:10:38):
It's reality.

Speaker 1 (01:10:39):
You're not grasping.
You just can go and fuckingSuperman.
You're destroying.

Speaker 4 (01:10:46):
And it's indistinguishable from reality.
You would be sitting in thechair wearing the helmet, like
this but you are.

Speaker 3 (01:10:54):
It is indistinguishable from like
other than the fact that youknow it's not real, but it's
indistinguishable from thismoment we're having here.
This is simulated.

Speaker 1 (01:11:03):
But you're just living out fantasies and you're
living out the game.
Yeah, at that point, if we'reat that point in society, you're
just living out your life.

Speaker 3 (01:11:11):
That's why I said we will never in our lifetimes
we're not going to get to thatpoint, to ever see this.

Speaker 1 (01:11:16):
I think if we ever got to that point, our default
to just slam our brain withdopamine.

Speaker 3 (01:11:23):
We would just be dopamine.
Everybody would be in thisuniverse and he'd be like well,
I'd rather play Guild Wars.

Speaker 4 (01:11:30):
Who's still online?
Boys we're logging in.

Speaker 1 (01:11:35):
We're good to go man, I don't know man.

Speaker 3 (01:11:38):
Imagine if it was Guild Wars, the game, and you
got put into that universe andyou were your character and it
was indistinguishable from thereality.

Speaker 1 (01:11:47):
I think that would be a lesser experience than
actually playing the game.
I don't want to fucking runaround or even have the effort
because running around thinkingabout moving.

Speaker 3 (01:11:57):
It's not now the game , because you have all the
skills and ability, like if yourcharacter has unlimited stamina
, then you could just runforever.
It's not like you.
Your human limitations are inthis world.

Speaker 4 (01:12:11):
You go in as that character.
I think Billy likes thegamified aspect.

Speaker 1 (01:12:15):
That would make it real, so I would go.

Speaker 4 (01:12:18):
It's not like chess.

Speaker 1 (01:12:19):
It's a novelty.

Speaker 4 (01:12:21):
I would jack in and then I would sit at my computer
and play my game it's not like alike chess, where it's like you
are just built different youare just wired I know that's the
quote like imagine how coolkyle like cyberpunk, yeah being
in that world and you could justpop out the gun like imagine

(01:12:41):
play, and then you get shot andyou feel it no, oh, okay, so now
it's reality, but not reality.

Speaker 3 (01:12:48):
Well, it's a game.
You want to die.
It's a game.
The battle feels real andyou're in it, but then when you
get shot, you get a game over.

Speaker 1 (01:12:54):
But how would it feel real if you didn't feel?
Pain.

Speaker 3 (01:12:57):
You get a game over.

Speaker 4 (01:12:58):
I mean, I'm sure there'll be people that want it
that way, but I wouldn't want it.

Speaker 1 (01:13:02):
I wouldn't want it when you but like to feel the
sensation of feeling real.
You would want to feel thatpower emanating from your hands.
You would want to feel thatyour fist punching someone in
the face yeah, but you don'twant to feel.

Speaker 4 (01:13:12):
But now you're not feeling pain.
That why you there'd be asetting called like pain sensors
.

Speaker 2 (01:13:18):
You turn it off unless you're this is the world
you want to live in.
No, not live in no.

Speaker 3 (01:13:23):
Play a couple hours a day.

Speaker 1 (01:13:25):
Yeah, if we're at this?
There's no way.
There's no way.
If we were at that level ofcivilization where that would be
like I'm going to go jack inand play, no, no, you would live
out your life in that fantasyworld.

Speaker 4 (01:13:37):
A hundred percent, because reality would suck, see,
so it wouldn't become a novelty.

Speaker 3 (01:13:44):
Which is why, when you were saying it would wear
off after like 30 minutes, Ididn't think you were grasping
what we were talking about?

Speaker 1 (01:13:51):
I just like.
I mean, you guys are literallypitching the movie the Matrix.
Nobody in that universe washappy man.

Speaker 4 (01:13:59):
But that's controlled by the robots.

Speaker 1 (01:14:03):
I can't with you, fucking guys.

Speaker 3 (01:14:05):
I don't even know why You're the one that's on the
wrong side of this right now.
Apparently so, apparently.

Speaker 1 (01:14:11):
We want to fucking submit our lives away to a
fucking simulation.

Speaker 3 (01:14:16):
If he was playing Second Life, he'd create his
character working.
Yeah, he's a Dwight Schrute.

Speaker 1 (01:14:25):
Jesus Christ Chad.
What do you think?
Whose side are you on?
Are you on the side of wrong orright?

Speaker 3 (01:14:31):
Just kidding.
Hey, we're debating somethingthat will never happen in our
lifetimes.

Speaker 1 (01:14:36):
I watched the movie the Matrix.
Nobody enjoyed themselves.

Speaker 4 (01:14:40):
Everybody seemed pretty fucking miserable.
I don't know.
Neo felt pretty happy when hewas learning Kung Fu.
Yeah, he didn't learn Kung Fu,he downloaded a fucking.

Speaker 3 (01:14:47):
EXE, yeah.
And then he was like whoa, Didyou see the third one?
He brought his powers into thereal world.

Speaker 4 (01:14:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:14:56):
All science went out the window, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:15:01):
He was Jesus Because it was a simulation within the
simulation he was the chosen one, that's right oh man.

Speaker 3 (01:15:10):
You know, the first matrix film, uh, was on neil
degrasse tyson's list of bestsci-fi films of all time, and
then the second and third onewere on his list of worst sci-fi
films of all time.
Oh shit, same with back to thefuture, even though I liked all
three.

Speaker 4 (01:15:25):
The first one was on his and then this I not that I'm
like a whole another, like thatwould be a side tangent we're
not gonna go down the rabbithole tonight, but not that.

Speaker 3 (01:15:35):
Like you know, what neil degrasse tyson says is law.
When it comes to film he's god.
But it is interesting that fromthat perspective, how quickly
the Matrix films went fromsci-fi to fantasy, like over the
course of one film pretty much.

Speaker 1 (01:15:53):
Yeah, I mean that goes to our earlier conversation
of, like the, did the Matrixreally even need a sequel, the
way that it ended?

Speaker 3 (01:16:01):
No, it didn't it didn't right, it was
self-contained.

Speaker 4 (01:16:03):
It was cool.

Speaker 1 (01:16:04):
The whole concept was cool and it closed itself off
off like red or blue and likethe choice of reality or sim,
like that was kind of a coolthing.
And then short-term gains right, they looked they're trying
earlier conversation they madeshort-term milked all that money
and you know.
But because it wasn't a game,matrix one is all like.

(01:16:24):
Matrix is always going to bespoken about very highly do you
think, uh, it would be?

Speaker 3 (01:16:30):
do you think its success was attributed
specifically to, like keanureeves?
Do you think it would have beenas successful if uh will smith
who?
Was actually the first choiceto play the character and he
turned it down.

Speaker 4 (01:16:46):
I think it would have .

Speaker 3 (01:16:47):
Do you think it would have?
I feel like Will Smith wouldhave definitely put a Wild Wild
West flair on it and it wouldn'thave been as good.

Speaker 1 (01:16:54):
Really.

Speaker 3 (01:16:56):
Think about his character in Men in Black, his
character in Wild Wild West.
Those are the films he wasdoing at that time.

Speaker 1 (01:17:02):
There was like a stoicism with Keanu Reeves.

Speaker 3 (01:17:04):
I think Keanu Reeves is the perfect kind of dry,
emotionless actor that fit inthat role that.
I don't know if Will Smithwould have done it as well.

Speaker 4 (01:17:15):
Look at Pursuit of.

Speaker 3 (01:17:15):
Happiness he wasn't doing it, I know, but like Wild
Wild West.

Speaker 4 (01:17:21):
Men in Black.
That's what the characters arewritten.
As that wasn't like himad-libbing the whole thing no, I
don't.

Speaker 3 (01:17:28):
I didn't say he's no, I'm just saying I'm saying that
at that time he will.
Smith would have been like youknow what's really cool, the
quirky guy that give a shitabout anything but he's also
funny and he gets the girl likeI feel like he would have played
it like that.
I don't like he would haveplayed it like that.
I don't think he would haveplayed it like the Pursuit of
Happiness.

Speaker 1 (01:17:48):
I think honestly, I think the story transcends any
one actor in that film, Becausethat was a star-studded cast.

Speaker 3 (01:17:55):
I'm just bringing up that idea.
I don't know one way or theother.
I think Will Smith definitelyhas the capability.
You better.

Speaker 1 (01:18:02):
I'm so pissed.
I think he probably would havenailed the role.

Speaker 4 (01:18:07):
Since when are you such a Will Smith defender?

Speaker 1 (01:18:08):
I hate him, but it's fine.
I think he's had fucking somebangers.
I think he would have had hisown flavor to the character, for
sure, but I think the Matrixespecially one is a story.
It's more about the story thanthere's any of the actors and, I
think, the question that theaudiences pose with I think it

(01:18:30):
still would have had the samecultural impact.

Speaker 3 (01:18:33):
Will Smith he famously turned down the Matrix
because when the Wachowskispitched it to him they did a
horrible pitch and the storydidn't make any sense to him and
he's like I'm not gettinginvolved in that.
And then it came out and hewatched it and he said he was
like shit, I should have been inthat movie.
That's kind of like Matt DamonUh, he has uh avatar with avatar

(01:18:59):
.
He lost out on the most moneyever for any actor ever.
They offered him.
Um God, he lost out on the mostmoney ever for any actor ever.
They offered him.
God, what was it?
10%, 10% of the revenue.
Had he have said yes to film?
And that would have beenhundreds of millions of dollars
he would have got for being init.

Speaker 1 (01:19:21):
I wonder why James Cameron felt the need to offer
that.

Speaker 3 (01:19:27):
To Matt Damon yeah, it.
I wonder why james cameron feltthe need to offer that to matt
damon.

Speaker 1 (01:19:30):
Yeah, it's not like he was an unestablished movie
maker I mean, that's what I'msaying like he did, like titanic
, the biggest film of all timebefore that you know what I mean
.
Like if avid, let's say avatardidn't do that crazy well, like
let's just, it'd still be a 500million dollar grossing film.
You know what I mean?
Like still james fuckingcameron.
And still like, hyped for yearsas this spectacle, it would

(01:19:50):
have still got.
Maybe I have no doubt in mymind it would have made over
five.
Even if the movie sucked, itwould have made 500 million
dollars.

Speaker 3 (01:19:56):
I think sometimes that's still 50 when these
writers and creators have acertain person in mind when they
, when they do, they get stuck.
They get so dialed in that likethis has to be the person that.
I think that's probably what itwas.
And then, ultimately, when hewas like all right, not going to
work, let's find somebody else.
And they ended up casting atthe time some unknown dude who

(01:20:18):
ended up making a bunch ofmovies after that, but at the
time Sam Worthington wasn't likein anything before that was he
in terminator at that point ornot yet?
so they had filmed.
They finished filming avatar inlike 2004, so he wasn't in
anything yet and then it took.
It came out in 2009.
It took from 2004 to like theend of 2008 just to finish all

(01:20:41):
of the post-production CG workand everything it filmed for a
couple years in the early 2000s,which is crazy.
So imagine being in that movieand starring in it, filming it
at the same time as Lord of theRings.
Yeah, and then for five yearsafter you're done filming, just
telling everybody just wait.

Speaker 1 (01:21:01):
I'm going to be in this movie.
It's going to be epic.
You'll see James Cameron.
Are'm going to be in this movie, it's going to be epic, You'll
see James Cameron Like.

Speaker 3 (01:21:07):
Are you going to be in this film, though?
Like Crazy Sam, he had anickname in his pub.
Are?

Speaker 1 (01:21:12):
you going to be.
I bet the editors hated JamesCameron because of how like I've
seen behind-the-scenes shit onthe Titanic.
Yeah.
And how much effort went intocreating how the boat broke
apart and the level of scienceand the weight distribution.
He had this vision the wholetime of what it would look like
and he brought in all thesescientists.

(01:21:33):
And it had nothing to do withthe film, it was just nailing
the ship and how it broke apartand the way it separated it is
fantastically amazing.

Speaker 3 (01:21:45):
My main problem with Titanic is is um the acting.
The acting, leonardo caprio, isthe worst actor.
I swear he can't act no, uh,obviously that's not true at all
.
But my main problem withtitanic is it was literally over
the course of like a day, howquickly, like you know, and she

(01:22:07):
took his name and everythinglike.
How quickly these people lovethe love is a beautiful love
story, but it like in real life.
It doesn't happen that quick.
All right, you don't just like?

Speaker 4 (01:22:22):
she was.

Speaker 3 (01:22:22):
It does to me one day he could have got on that door
at the end.
Don't tell me there wasn'tenough room for him rose was
like it's like oh man, chilly,get over.
He gets off because he's angryat her nagging dies if only he
knew about the wim hof method.
No, you could have just icemanned it through you know, and

(01:22:43):
also that movie makes the shipseem a lot bigger than it
actually was Like if you compareTitanic.
Obviously there's over 100.
There's modern ships there'sover 100 years ago.
So obviously.
But if you compare the Titanicto some of these Royal Super
Cruise ships from RoyalCaribbean, like it literally is,
it's dwarfed.
It looks so tiny compared towhat we have now it looks like

(01:23:05):
the tugboat that pulls it to sea.
That was a weird tangent for meto go on, you guys just
reminded me the tangent,reminded me.

Speaker 4 (01:23:14):
There was this person that was telling me this
conspiracy theory about theTitanic that it was crashed on
purpose.
Why?
What purpose there was Big, iftrue Big.
What purpose there was Big, iftrue, there was, like, important
people on it that were put onit by some other important
person, people who could affordit, nobody that important For

(01:23:40):
competition.

Speaker 1 (01:23:41):
Jack's ticket.

Speaker 4 (01:23:42):
The guy who Jack wins the ticket from was the guy who
set it up.

Speaker 3 (01:23:46):
Okay, he's not a real person, so Titanic happened,
but Jack is a fictionalcharacter.

Speaker 4 (01:23:54):
Are you?

Speaker 3 (01:23:55):
sure.

Speaker 4 (01:23:56):
I'm positive.
Was James Cameron not there,did he know?

Speaker 3 (01:23:59):
something Did James Cameron know something?
Some would say Hisgreat-grandfather.
Actually, it'd just feel likehis grandfather.

Speaker 1 (01:24:06):
So some already ridiculously wealthy person put
this idea together to build thelargest, safest cruise ship ever
, invite a bunch of rich peopleon it, not good on it, and then
crash it, just so he couldpotentially win over their
business.
That seems pretty elaborate,which I mean we're talking about

(01:24:31):
the days where it was prettymuch illegal to go out and have
a pistol battle with people inthe middle of the fucking street
.
Duels were illegal.

Speaker 3 (01:24:38):
We're in a duel in the middle of the street and
it's straight up illegal.
Never mind that the Titanicactually was designed and built
extremely well.
It was purely human error thatcaused this Human error hubris
yep.

Speaker 4 (01:24:54):
If that was the theory.

Speaker 1 (01:24:55):
I'm trying to look it up now.
There's a million.

Speaker 3 (01:24:57):
There are probably better ways that you can get
rich people.
You can get rich people in onebuilding and shoot it up or bomb
it, rather than building acruise ship Billion dollar
cruise ship.
Making them get on it sailingfrom it's a 10-year plan.

Speaker 1 (01:25:14):
All the while you finally build it and the guy
you're trying to take down isafraid of boats and he never
gets on it.
Yeah at first place.
You're like fuck, damn it.

Speaker 3 (01:25:22):
The plan is foolproof .
And then this is all like theprecursor Titanic happened in
1911 or 12.
And this is all the precursorto World War I.
Jp Morgan planned the disasterto kill his rivals.
According to this theory,according to this theory,

(01:25:44):
millionaire banker JP Morganplanned the Titanic disaster to
kill off rival millionairesJacob Astor, isidore Strauss and
Benjamin Guggenheim, who allperished aboard.
So JP Morgan funded the Titanicto kill his three rivals.
He designed a ship, he had itbuilt.

(01:26:05):
Over the course of what?
Multiple years?
Got it crewed, got the captainwilling to kill himself, killed
hundreds and hundreds of people,specifically to kill three men
rather than just killing them.

Speaker 1 (01:26:20):
After 20 years, after JP Morgan single-handedly
bailed out the entire usgovernment.
So he's already world renownedat the top of everything and he
needed to do this to take himdown.
That's right.

Speaker 3 (01:26:35):
I'm gonna have a hard time believing this is the most
bullshit thing I've ever heard.

Speaker 1 (01:26:39):
Heard and with that dylan, where can people find us?

Speaker 4 (01:26:46):
well, if jp morgan doesn't get to us jp morgan's
people give us a call.

Speaker 1 (01:26:52):
Let us know on our next, did you?

Speaker 4 (01:26:53):
do this on our next cruise.
Yeah, uh, they can find us onyoutube, instagram, spotify, any
major podcast listeningplatform, twitter, as well as
Twitter.
Which he said.
X with a whisper you can findus on.

Speaker 1 (01:27:10):
X, I don't.

Speaker 4 (01:27:11):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:27:13):
X Like Family Feud.
You know, you ever seen FamilyFeud when the other family's
like you're gonna get it wrongboy.

Speaker 4 (01:27:22):
Let's move on.
Moving on, you can watch usevery tuesday right here on
youtube, where hopefully you'rewatching us right now.
We stream at 7 pm, pacific time.
Come join us, chat with us.
Um, it's a fun time and, uh, wewere three silly guys, you know
just having a good time, allright having a good time.

(01:27:46):
What's the Saturday life?
Two crazy guys, two wild guys.

Speaker 1 (01:27:55):
Or three wild guys.
Good kitty, you get the dub.

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