The Shifting Sands of Game Exclusivity and Pricing Strategies

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
and here we go, we are live, gentlemen.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
What's up?
Hello, so the ball is over.

Speaker 1 (00:09):
It is now a new, fresh week.
Our year can officially.

Speaker 3 (00:13):
Well, fresh week was yesterday.
You're right, it's a fresh week.

Speaker 1 (00:17):
for our viewers it's our fresh week.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
Because our week operates off of Tuesday.

Speaker 1 (00:20):
You're right, I don't feel like the week can start
until I see you the week doesn'tstart until this podcast hit
starts streaming.

Speaker 3 (00:28):
It's all just made up , anyways, right.

Speaker 1 (00:31):
What is a second?

Speaker 3 (00:33):
The sun rises and sets.
That's the only thing we shouldknow.

Speaker 1 (00:37):
Dude, have you ever done any investigation into what
defines time Like?
What is a second, what is onesecond?
Have you ever seen what?

Speaker 3 (00:47):
And the only way to answer that is one second is one
second.

Speaker 1 (00:50):
No, well, exactly, how did we define?
Well, how is one second defined?
And it's like nine trillionrotations of the electron of the
beryllium atom or somethinglike, or cesium, or something, I
forget what.
Periodic table development is.

Speaker 2 (01:11):
Isn't it the decay of like a?

Speaker 1 (01:14):
No, I'm pretty sure it's an electron.
How many times it's defined asexplicitly as, like nine
trillion something spins on anelectron atom, an electron of an
atom, and I don't know whatatom it is.

Speaker 3 (01:27):
That's wild, it is wild, it's wild.
I mean that sounded like I wassaying in a way that was like
shut up, that's not how I meantit, like no, that really is
insane that they would.

Speaker 1 (01:38):
I think he was trying to move on.
I think he was, no, actually.

Speaker 3 (01:41):
I was going to stay on the same topic.

Speaker 1 (01:43):
But at time is an illusion.
You're absolutely right.
And here we are.
We got a fresh new week.
The week starts now.
Are we doing boys?
We feeling good.
Vibes are high, feeling good.
I got a fist bump from Kyle, sohe's feeling good.

Speaker 2 (01:54):
He actually is awake.

Speaker 1 (01:56):
He's not trying to tank it.

Speaker 3 (01:57):
I took a nice long nap.
I worked today Nice.

Speaker 1 (02:01):
That's a productive day.

Speaker 3 (02:02):
I was on lunch.
Let me clarify in casesomebody's watching Long lunch
it was an extra long lunch.

Speaker 1 (02:09):
The collars are popped, we're looking good,
we're feeling good.

Speaker 3 (02:13):
Tonight we have a couple of topics to dive into.

Speaker 1 (02:16):
The first one is this controversy that's been
spinning up and I don't thinkit's really a controversy, I
think it's a bunch of cryfanboys and I know we have some
Xbox gamers in the chat,something cool gaming.
In particular, it was alifelong Xbox fanboy, but
Microsoft who kind of runs theshow at Xbox.

Speaker 3 (02:38):
They've been known to run Xbox, if you heard of them
they're only the most valued.

Speaker 1 (02:42):
They actually topped Apple for the most valuable
company in the world.
Now, without the Blizzardacquisition went through, they
are no longer doing consoleexclusives, so they're going to
sort of balance between theconsole and their PC market.
So nothing will be exclusive totheir platforms.
To me as a consumer of videogames and not a shill of any

(03:06):
platform, any one platform I waselated by this.
I was like oh cool.

Speaker 3 (03:12):
Isn't this a good thing?
This is a good thing, right?
Is this what we should bewriting towards?

Speaker 1 (03:16):
Yes, right, you would think that this game is now
being introduced to moreplatforms.
If you enjoy games, you don'thave to go through the
gatekeeping of buying a consoleor whatever specific product to
own that.
I like seeing this.
This is generally a good thing.
There was a response that Ididn't even know these people
existed.
I did not know these peopleexisted and I saw videos of

(03:40):
dudes singing to their consoles.
What Dudes literally crying.
I don't think it was even fake.
It was like a legitimate lovestory that they wrote to their
consoles and the whole idea wasif exclusives don't exist
anymore, then nobody will buyXbox.

(04:01):
Nobody will buy the Xboxanymore.

Speaker 3 (04:03):
OK, what's wrong with your system then?
Exactly, if that's the onlyreason you buy it.

Speaker 1 (04:10):
Exactly.
They had fallen so deep in lovewith this one singular product
and were completely.
I didn't know these peopleexisted.
I did not know these people.
I'm sure they exist for theSony side, like the PS5 side.

Speaker 2 (04:22):
Oh, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (04:23):
I know they exist for the Switch, but I did not
realize that there was thisheart of simping going on for
products like this.
It was mind-blowing to see.
This guy wrote a three-minutelove story song and actually
sung it, just ripped it and itwas like, so you watched my
video.
It was very uncomfortable towatch.

Speaker 2 (04:46):
Wow, and I don't get it.
That's their new model goingforward.
Pc does that.

Speaker 3 (04:55):
They've always done that.
I mean, PC doesn't care whetheror not it's PC exclusive or not
.
They're just at the mercy ofdevelopers.
Yep, that's what it is.

Speaker 2 (05:06):
Yeah, and I mean Xbox has been kind of going that way
, so it's been in the cards.
Because we've seen with gamepasses on PC, yeah, I don't even
know if we like.
And what are the Xboxexclusives right?

Speaker 1 (05:21):
now let's talk about that Halo Infinite.
Yeah, redfall, I looked at aSteam chart Starfield right.

Speaker 2 (05:28):
I looked at it.

Speaker 1 (05:29):
I looked at a Steam chart of how many people are
playing Redfall.
It was 26.
Nice.

Speaker 3 (05:36):
Wow, that's about 25 more than I thought.

Speaker 1 (05:40):
Starfield.
I mean, these were bad flops.
That was a bad year for themdude, you know why?

Speaker 2 (05:48):
I think they had a lot of bad years, dude, that's
bad.

Speaker 3 (05:50):
Anybody who has been following the lore on this
should have seen this coming,because Xbox even said, before
Starfield launched, they werespeculating that they'd have to
do major overhauls to theirapproach to gaming if Starfield
wasn't a success.
They said that, and soStarfield wasn't the success

(06:10):
that they hoped it would be, andtherefore changes are being
made and this is like what itwas.
What did they think was goingto happen?
What did the fans think thatthey meant by that?
Like we're going to double down?
That doesn't make sense.

Speaker 1 (06:26):
And I feel like a lot of these AAA or even quadruple
now that we got Skull and Bonesdidn't know that that was a
thing.
These studios, I feel likethey're sort of homogenizing the
way that they deploy thesethings, where they're not only
trying to target the console,they're trying to target where
people are and people are ontheir phones, and so you're

(06:50):
seeing a lot of mobile gameslaunching, as also mobile games.
You definitely see that in theMMO market and then you see
these fan bases almost sort ofbegging them to produce this
content.
To me I only see I get thatthere's benefits to developing

(07:14):
on a console because thehardware is known, so it's
probably easier to develop forjust the one platform, because
the PC is sort of a lot ofthings.
But, I also don't think it'simpossible to do that.
That's been evident by thesteam, like Power World and all
these other games that have CSGOand freaking PubG, like

(07:40):
insanely successful video gamesthat you can launch on PC.
Yeah, it might be a little moredifficult, but regardless, to
me, a console, all of it, it'sstill computer hardware.
At the end of the day it'sstill a computer.
It's just organized andarchitected in a very specific
way.
So I just I think this isultimately a good thing and good

(08:01):
news and to see the reaction,it was all over my feet.
I couldn't get away from it.
Like just people moaning andgroaning and yelling at the top
of their lungs about how stupidpeople are.
They don't see the risk herethat PlayStation is going to be
running uncontested.

Speaker 3 (08:21):
I come to think of it and I just kind of blew this
off as just a typical redditor.
I didn't think about it toomuch, but I did see a post that
said it was like it was.
This is maybe not an exactquote, but it said how the
socialization of, or how the howthe socialism aspect of gaming

(08:43):
is ruining the market.
Socialism.
And they were, yeah, and theywere like likening this to
socialism in the gaming world.
I was like what the hell?

Speaker 2 (08:53):
And I didn't think of it much, I just like moved on.
Yeah, socialism.

Speaker 1 (08:57):
That guy sounds like an onion.
Yeah, I was like this is youcan have him on the podcast.

Speaker 3 (09:01):
This was a this was socialized gaming is what they
they were trying to, that wastheir argument.
That doesn't make much sense tome while they're trying to spin
that.

Speaker 2 (09:15):
But I didn't even like comprehend, yeah.

Speaker 1 (09:19):
Gaming is such a weird like the people who
interact with games.
It's such a weird market itreally is.
I don't know of another productthat people get to actually
like interact with, build with,fall in love with.
You know it's.
It's different than metraditional media consumption
right Home building.
Thing you can build.
Yeah, but like you don't get tolive in every home you build.

(09:40):
Yeah, I'm in home building, sobasically a gamer, I know.

Speaker 3 (09:46):
The thrilling highs and the plummeting lows of
falling in love with a product.

Speaker 1 (09:53):
That's yeah, But-.

Speaker 3 (09:55):
We've talked about this before on the podcast, that
entertainment media like moviesand gaming, but really
specifically gaming, is uniqueon a lot of fronts.

Speaker 2 (10:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (10:08):
Like the way they're priced, the way they're
developed, like it's just youdon't have that in other markets
, it's just so.
Overall, I think that this isfor me I think we're all in this
agreements that this is notanything to really be worried
about.

Speaker 2 (10:25):
No, I don't think so.
I mean, even if Xboxes stopexisting, then okay, I mean I
don't, they're sold at a lossanyway.

Speaker 1 (10:40):
To get people into, like it's a weird product anyway
, I don't know.
Tell that to.

Speaker 3 (10:47):
Sega.
I've never recovered from whenthey went under.
The Dreamcast was supposed tobe just that, a dream.
What happened?
But?

Speaker 1 (10:57):
it cast me away.

Speaker 2 (10:58):
It cast me away.

Speaker 1 (11:02):
Speaking of excellent development Skull and Bones
quadruple A game.

Speaker 3 (11:11):
So what's the joke on that quadruple?
A?

Speaker 2 (11:13):
The CEO of Ubisoft.
The CEO, when talked aboutpeople were asking me like do
you think this is justified tohave a $70 price point?
He said, yes, this game isgoing to be amazing.
It's going to be a completegame Quadruple.
A it's a quadruple A game.
He said that.

Speaker 3 (11:30):
Like, not as a joke.
Unironically, he's calling it aquadruple A game.

Speaker 2 (11:34):
Yes, and he said I think that justifies that price
point.

Speaker 1 (11:37):
The only game that could say that and I would be
like yes, is GTA 6.
Based on the level of fuckingeffort and groundbreaking stuff
that they've had to implementand put into that engine and
that world, then maybe I'd belike, okay, sure, we can give it
a new class and say that somegames get triple A too easily.

Speaker 2 (12:02):
but triple A just means the amount of money that
they're charging.

Speaker 1 (12:06):
We don't even know, it's just institutional.

Speaker 3 (12:10):
And there's no double A games, it's just indie.
It's indie or triple A.
Why does that go like?
Straight to?

Speaker 2 (12:15):
it, but it's like because you can't tell me that
like God of War on PS5 is atriple A game, just like
Starfield is, I feel like that'snot comparable Maybe the
classes need to be addressed.

Speaker 3 (12:33):
Maybe they all need to be reorganized and changed.
That's such a we talked.
I know we've talked about thison the podcast before.
But that is the definition is ahigh budget, high profile games
that are typically produced anddistributed by large,
well-known publishers.

Speaker 1 (12:47):
The fuck is that so quadruple A must mean dog shit.

Speaker 2 (12:52):
It's just different.

Speaker 1 (12:52):
Is that what?

Speaker 2 (12:54):
we all agree it's a dog shit game that's developed
by a large, well-known publisher.

Speaker 3 (12:58):
You should never have to pay $70 for any game and $70
for school and bones.
There are games that Iundoubtedly would buy for $70,
but I really hate the idea thatthat's going to be the new
standard.

Speaker 1 (13:14):
If they make money on this.

Speaker 3 (13:17):
They're never going back.

Speaker 2 (13:18):
No, especially $70.
I guess finish your thought,because I want to comment on
that I was going to say $70 fora game like school and bones.
I want to know if I'm spending$70, it better be a full
functioning non-microtransactionlike a full game, and I know

(13:40):
school and bones has fuckinglive service bullshit all
through it.

Speaker 1 (13:44):
Think of the battle.
Pass dude, yeah, the battlepass for your pirate ship that
you can't.

Speaker 2 (13:50):
You can put a decal inside your ship, man.
Sick.

Speaker 1 (13:53):
You can have your own playlist when you ride around.
You can go to the Ubisoftwebsite.

Speaker 3 (13:59):
Design a logo and then put that logo on your ship
in the game Sick $5.99.

Speaker 1 (14:08):
No no, no, that one you can't customize the colors,
but you can do the custom logo.
The $10 one, you can do thecolors.

Speaker 2 (14:17):
And you have to buy it with in-game currency.
They only sell it at $15increments.

Speaker 1 (14:23):
And it costs $13.

Speaker 3 (14:28):
For $5.99.
You can only download black andwhite.

Speaker 1 (14:32):
Fawn's is so sad because it's actually true.
I sent you guys this week ofthe portals on Diablo 4.
Yeah, the color $30 to changethe color of the fucking portal
in Diablo 4.
Is.

Speaker 2 (14:48):
Diablo 4 a quadruple A game.

Speaker 1 (14:52):
It might even be a sex tuple.

Speaker 3 (14:56):
We're skipping $5.
They go straight to $6.

Speaker 1 (14:59):
They do it because they can get it.
I mean, if you played a lot ofDiablo 4, it might be worth it.

Speaker 2 (15:04):
It'd be something kind of different.

Speaker 1 (15:05):
$30 for a portal color.
Think about the people whogrind that game.
Still.
They have hundreds of hoursinto it.
They might get enjoyment out ofit.
I'm not knocking the developersdo it because there's people
who buy it If they have a way tomake money.
I'm not discouraging games frommaking money.
But you said somethinginteresting.
You said you don't think gamesever should be $70.

(15:30):
Are you saying that you thinkthey should be?
I guess?
What price point do you thinkgames should come out?
Do you think live service gamesshould inherently be cheaper
than games that are just like anElven ring type game If it's a
live service game.

Speaker 3 (15:43):
I think that they should operate on a free to play
model for sure.
I'm very firm in that belief.
Most live service games aregoing that way.
They'll make up their money inwhatever other way, then I think
that every other game if it'snot a live service game, you

(16:05):
really should never pay morethan $60 for a game.
You can give options.
It's different versions of saidgame.
As a consumer, just make itaware of what the difference is
between each version.
I think there should always bea base level of a minimum of $60

(16:27):
.
The base shouldn't be $70.
You can make your money back inother ways.
I also like in it too, where,if I get $1 an hour, then I'm
okay with that.

(16:47):
If I can get $1 an hour, thenI'm more than comfortable
spending more on $60.

Speaker 1 (16:53):
I'm just saying that that shouldn't be the industry's
expectation.
I put like 250 hours intoDiablo 4 and I bought the
ultimate edition for $100.
I definitely value my time atabout $1 an hour in terms of
video games.

Speaker 3 (17:07):
If I can get at least that, regardless of the game,
I'll be happy Now yourreflection on the game of.

Speaker 1 (17:13):
Whether or not it was a positive or bad experience
doesn't matter.
You got your value worth.
You might not have enjoyed itthat much.
Do you like it to a price, ordo you think $70 is too much?

Speaker 2 (17:28):
I think $70, it has to be a quality game.
We can't get any more pieces ofgarbage, broken releases, if
it's going to be $70.
In my opinion, sony, they'rejust the ones I can think of
right now that come out ascomplete games God of War, ghost
of Tsushima, those I would befine being $70, because it works

(17:52):
when you get it, you plug it in, you play.
There's maybe a little bug thatthey just fixed, but it's
little.
Versus, cyberpunk, anthem,those games, redfall those
should never be $70.
If I'm spending that much, thenI better have a guarantee that

(18:12):
it's not going to be a lie.

Speaker 3 (18:15):
Developers are getting way too comfortable with
the fact that they are beingallowed to release unfinished
games and fix them after.
That was never a thing up untilmaybe 10 years ago, and that's
me being generous.
If you released an unfinishedgame first off back in the day,

(18:37):
you couldn't do that because itwould never get fixed.
There's no such thing aspatching a game after release.
It just was what it was.
It shipped, but then all of asudden, I don't know, somewhere
in the 2010s, there was thisdynamic where they realized that
they could do that.
They could release anunfinished game and then patch
it in and fix it after launch.

(18:59):
People let them get away withit for too long and now they're
just comfortable doing that.
I do think there's a shift.
Now.
It's going back to gamers beingless tolerant of that, but they
put up with that for so longthat developers are still doing
it.

Speaker 2 (19:13):
The only one I'm trying to think.
What was the first game?
There's gotta be.

Speaker 1 (19:20):
I want to talk about Kyle's point because I think
that that's very well said,because I remember, coming from
PC world I don't know how muchthis actually happened in the
console world, but in the PCworld I remember beta tests
actually being a beta test whenyou actually would test the game

(19:42):
and test the functionality.
People went into it and werelike, yeah, sure they were
judging the content.
For the most part it was likethe game was ready.

Speaker 3 (19:52):
It was testing the servers Completely until you
were testing capacity.

Speaker 1 (19:57):
I remember in Guild Wars 2 explicitly there was an
event that they put on.
They were like we want you topress every button you have, we
want you to crash it.

Speaker 3 (20:07):
When server slam, we need to actually mean that.

Speaker 1 (20:09):
Yes, that's what it was.
It was called a server slam.
They were like stack as tightlyas you can on this.
It was a white rabbit and itwas the tankiest rabbit you've
ever seen in your life.
It was just the entire serverjust dumping on this rabbit as
pressing as many buttons as youcould to break the server.
It was so fun and it was buggy.

(20:30):
It was because people werehaving fun.
They were like that's what youwere there to do.
You were there to test theircapacity To me.
I don't liken it to a price.
I think it should be whateverit is.
I honestly think GTA 6 isprobably going to come out at
the base game.
It might be $100.
I think we're going to startseeing developers really push it

(20:51):
.
I don't really care about theprice.
What I care about is gamersusing information appropriately.
I feel like we're really bad atspending money way too quickly
with pre-orders or buying a gameand then bitching about how bad
it is.
Use the advantage and theinformation at your hand.
There's so many reviewers outthere and content creators that
will try that game.
Wait one day to play that gameand you won't regret your

(21:16):
purchase.

Speaker 2 (21:16):
Especially now.
You can kind of read the signsThey've been doing it for long
enough of where, if there's areview embargo and that review
embargo is like a day beforerelease or not until after
release, then you know there's areason they're doing that.
There's never been a good gamethat was like hold off on our
reviews to all the games.

(21:38):
That's such a ridiculousstatement All bad games are like
.
Wait to give the reviews.

Speaker 1 (21:42):
And I for one, I am a huge proponent.
I think free to play is afantastic idea, especially for
gamers in other countries,because it gives them access to
get in.
I know some of these countries,especially in South America.
It can be very cost prohibitiveto get into gaming, not only
buying the PC, but some of thesegames cost a shitload of money.

(22:04):
Just the way that theconversions work and some games
a lot more than others.
I really don't fully understandit.
But I remember when I was in theworld, buying a copy of Goers 2
was hundreds of dollarsrelative.
For them it was very expensive,and so the free to play model,
I think, is an awesome, greatthing, just for gamers all
around.
But I understand, going intothat, that the game is

(22:27):
ultimately going to be liveservice.
What I have a problem with iskind of what Kyle was talking
about is when you sell me a $70game and then also expect me to
still engage with it as a liveservice game and spend as much
money as if I spent nothing onit as a free to play game,
because the balance isn't thereanymore.
If you want me to play yourlive service game, make it truly

(22:48):
live service.
A shitty battle pass with coolcharacter skins that like not
even cool, like half asscharacter skins and like a new
camo for your gun or whatever itis that you're playing.
That is not content.
Make it live service, sellpatches of content, sell your
game, package your game.

(23:08):
I feel like they charge the $70and then they're trying to
leverage this model and they'retrying to like, squeeze both
sides of this lemon and you'relike, hey, there's been nothing
left.

Speaker 2 (23:20):
Fortnite is the bar for a live service game.
You look at what you get forfree.

Speaker 3 (23:27):
And they made a shit ton of money.
So it's successful as a model.

Speaker 2 (23:31):
It's free.
It comes with all thosedifferent game modes.
It comes with a Lego.
It comes with a Guitar Herotype mode.
You can create your own maps,you can do whatever.
It's free and it's like theirmonetization model.
Yes, there's a battle pass.
Yes, you can buy skins, but youknow what?
It's a free game and you don'thave to buy those at all.

Speaker 1 (23:55):
And it's littered with content.

Speaker 2 (23:57):
Yeah, littered with content.

Speaker 1 (23:59):
So you feel like if you buy something, it's not a
regrettable purchase.
The reason why Diablo 4 getsmemed on is because we'll have
these content droughts.
I know they do like seasons orwhatever, and to be honest, I
don't think that they're thatdifferentiating from the
traditional content.
But here, nonetheless, thereason why D4 gets memed on is

(24:20):
because it's $30 to change thecolor of a portal.
That's not content.
What do you get with that?
You get a color change for that.

Speaker 3 (24:30):
Are you serious?
You can buy so many good indiegames with that budget.

Speaker 1 (24:35):
But we say this too.
And then I see things whereFIFA sale just the fantasy team,
the ultimate team, whatevermakes more money than all of
Elden Ring did.
One year of ultimate team onFIFA makes more than Elden Ring
the full run.
And it's like, oh my god.
So they know what they're doing.

(24:57):
They're trying to make as muchmoney as they can.
It's just.
I just I just feel like it'skind of crazy.
I see these layoffs andMillennial Ghost talks about the
first people get laid off forthe QA department, which makes
games more buggy.

Speaker 3 (25:10):
Statistically, that's true too, which is insane.

Speaker 2 (25:12):
And QA department believe in games.
I think most game actuallyemploys.
They're like contract workers.
They're not necessarilyemployees of the company.

Speaker 1 (25:22):
So Well, and as someone in software development,
that's honestly not the worstthing, because you do want
someone that's traditionallyunbiased by the developer,
because the developer can tellyou how it should work and why
it works.
They might bias you into howyou test it, versus you kind of
coming at it from a fewdifferent angles and trying to
break it.
So that doesn't really likebother me but absolutely like it

(25:45):
is a plague that QA, like QAteams are as small as they are.
You remember those commercialsgrowing up like we'll pay you to
play video games to test youyeah, yeah, or in the Game
Informer ad.

Speaker 2 (25:58):
Do you want to play video games?

Speaker 3 (25:59):
I don't know enough about the division to comment on
this, but he was millennial,saying that there's a battle
pass, but they also give a tonof free content every season.
So I mean, I think that's anapproachable and good model as
well.

Speaker 1 (26:16):
Yeah, it's fine.
Like I think there's thebalance right.
Like the content comes outwhich gets you excited to then
buy the battle pass.
Like what I'm saying is likethe, if the content is the sell,
like the sale, that's notcontent.
Like the content is a new skinand a new, new, new, new skins

(26:36):
for your guns or whatever,whatever, whatever they're
selling you, that's not content.

Speaker 2 (26:40):
You didn't change anything fundamentally about
your game, a new color for thegame.
So like, yeah, there needs tobe when you balance your game.

Speaker 1 (26:45):
Oh, that's, that's your season content.

Speaker 3 (26:47):
For seasonal changes.
It needs to be.
It's not cosmetics, it's notyou know like simple it's.
Seasonal changes for a liveservice game should be something
that fundamentally changes thegame, like different, different
maps, different environments,different, different campaigns
yeah, expanded campaign,expanded campaign.

Speaker 1 (27:09):
What's the?

Speaker 3 (27:10):
campaign based.
Like it shouldn't be likeseason four, bringing you
colored portals.

Speaker 1 (27:16):
Yeah, Like bringing your Spider-Man skins and you're
like okay.

Speaker 2 (27:20):
Alright, disbalance patch as well.

Speaker 3 (27:23):
The unofficial patch.

Speaker 1 (27:24):
We tuned that gun down.
Now you're all happy,congratulations.

Speaker 3 (27:28):
Like that's just quality of life, that should
just be added anytime, all thetime.
Yeah, like that's not.

Speaker 1 (27:34):
I need to play the division, though I always see it
always gets recommended to meand I always see that like
footage of it and it's like thatgame looks like it was.

Speaker 3 (27:40):
I've been like thinking about it, because these
people I work with talk aboutall the time Tori plays it and
I'm like I've never given it afair shake.
You know, I just I get so I getso into something that I don't
let myself get into other things, but I think it's.
It's a free to play model rightnow.

Speaker 1 (28:02):
Is it Jack?
Can you confirm that?

Speaker 3 (28:04):
I thought it was like 20 bucks to purchase, but I
think it's a free to play model,like a month ago.

Speaker 1 (28:12):
Maybe that'd be sick.
I could be wrong.
You'd have to check it out.
Division two at least.
But then if it's a free to playmodel, then I don't mind, like
I'm not.
I don't mind them if the onlycontent they have is just
cosmetic shit.
Like, then flood me with it.
If I paid nothing, if the onlyopportunity costs that I had in
your, in playing your game, isclicking the download button,

(28:33):
that to me like flood me withads, flood me with whatever you
want.
Like you know, you figure thatout because I didn't pay, I
didn't do anything to play yourgame, right?

Speaker 3 (28:41):
Yeah, just pop ups on your video game.

Speaker 1 (28:44):
Dude shit I played, I'm gonna play in Marvel Snap
yeah.
Yeah, I'm having a lot of funit's.
I wish it was a little more.
I don't know.
I got like a.
I've got two decks going and Iwish it was a little more
difficult.
You got a what?
What tier are?

Speaker 2 (29:03):
you in.

Speaker 1 (29:04):
I'm like level 14 or something right now.

Speaker 2 (29:06):
But what tier I?

Speaker 1 (29:07):
don't know what that means.

Speaker 2 (29:08):
Like Silver, bronze.

Speaker 1 (29:10):
Oh, I haven't played any ranked yeah.
Oh, I've been doing onlineonline play but I haven't done
any ranked.

Speaker 2 (29:16):
I guess you're not a ranked mode.
I thought ranked mode is likethe only mode.

Speaker 1 (29:22):
Oh man, Then I don't know what tier have you only
ever played ranked.
I have two decks going, but thehumble brag.

Speaker 2 (29:28):
Well, that's why it's well, I mean, that's why it's
not hard, because you're not.

Speaker 1 (29:31):
Well, I have not lost like a game.
I'm on like a 20 win streak orsomething right now.

Speaker 2 (29:36):
So you must be.
I don't know what you shouldpull it up right now.

Speaker 1 (29:38):
Well, we'll pull it up after this.

Speaker 2 (29:40):
Millennial Ghost says they're 30 bucks each.

Speaker 3 (29:41):
So it's it's half price games.
It's not well.
I probably wasn't 30 at launch.
It's probably 30 now.
But yeah, I could probably putup with paying 30 for to get
into something like that.
That's totally fine.

Speaker 2 (29:56):
Or the, did they have expansions?

Speaker 3 (29:58):
Division two I know I don't, like I said, I don't
know much about the game, but Iknow that they just came out
with something.
Forget what it's called, but itwas a big deal Season 40.
Yeah but they they did a wholeupdate and everything.
Like Tori was a part of likeshe played like the like, the
beta for that.
The newest, like she gotinvited because like one of her,

(30:19):
I don't know like her dad orsomething got invited and then
he was able to invite people.

Speaker 1 (30:24):
Like it was kind of a .
Well, let me tell you a littlesecret of something I've been
kind of pondering with.
I kind of want to check outSeason of Discovery from World
of Warcraft.

Speaker 3 (30:35):
Season of Discovery, huh.

Speaker 1 (30:37):
The way that?
Have you?
Have you heard about this atall?
The way that they're doingSeason of Discovery is they come
out with a.
They're it's like the best timeto play an MMO is and you guys
will know this from any othergame it's like right at launch,
when there's like all the energyaround the game.

(30:57):
Yeah like that right.
Well, the way that they'redoing season of discovery is
they have like hard set levelcaps.
So I think when the game firstcame out, there was level 10 cap
and then they raised it to 25.
Oh yeah, and now they're raised.
They just I think they're aboutto raise, or just did to 40 and
then I'll go to 50 and then 60and so basically it's like

(31:17):
they're artificially raising theceiling and so you get that,
those multiple Surges of contentand stuff to do and gearing and
stuff like that.
So it looks a lot of fun.
It has the monthly subscriptionfee and I don't think I don't
think I can get over that wall.
That's so random.

Speaker 3 (31:34):
I think you would like be like, hmm, world of
warcraft.

Speaker 1 (31:37):
I know, but I honestly like I my there's a
buddy of mine that I'm ondiscord with all the time and he
is like it's one of my goodwords to buddies.
He hypes it up so much and I'mlike the way he's talking about
it and like the raids in thatgame and how the gearing system
works.
He's like it's so addictive andso great and like it just it's.
The best part of an MMO is likewhen you're, when you're

(31:59):
playing with a lot of people andlike there's a lot like a high
amount of energy, like any gameright, like when, like when
Elden Rain came out, it was likemonths of awesome content and
creative builds and new Shit todo and it was like fresh and fun
.
I love that about these gamesand, unfortunately, like world
of warcraft, still king dick inthat space and, if you want, a

(32:20):
million of people you knowthat's the only way to do.

Speaker 3 (32:22):
I, uh, I don't have enough friends and I'm also very
anti-social when it comes togaming your personal when you
game yeah like I'm a.
I'm a more personal game.
I don't, I don't play games tosocialize for the most part,
don't get it wrong, that's fun.
I like that aspect, especiallywhen I'm playing with you guys.

Speaker 1 (32:41):
but like, when I play a game, I'm, I'm totally fine,
just just me, you know, just mein the game I like to play
competitively, and so when youplay with other players that are
like really dedicated and whoare also like to Play
competitively, you pick up ontips and tricks, otherwise you
wouldn't have missed, you know,and that's why I like to do it.
Yeah falling into those groups.
So I don't know.

(33:02):
I've been playing around withthe idea because I just I missed
that energy and feeling aroundit, but I'm so caught up in
Guild Wars one right now it'snot even fun.

Speaker 3 (33:11):
I'm not gonna lie to you guys.
I've been tempted to go backand do another playthrough of
Mass Effect.

Speaker 1 (33:16):
Oh my god, what would you do now?

Speaker 3 (33:19):
I was thinking about it the other day.

Speaker 1 (33:20):
It's about time for a really playthrough.

Speaker 3 (33:21):
I probably have played it, not once a year, but
I've probably beaten it tentimes since.
Uh.

Speaker 1 (33:30):
It's about once a year.
Well, because I've done yearswhere.

Speaker 3 (33:33):
I've done it more than once, and then I've done a
couple years where I haven'tplayed it at all.

Speaker 1 (33:36):
How many times do you beat the legendary edition?

Speaker 3 (33:38):
Three times.
Okay, yeah, then it's timebecause I did it like three
times quickly back to back.
I did like three differentkinds of playthroughs and then I
haven't played it since.

Speaker 1 (33:48):
Why wouldn't, why haven't they done or have they
tried to do this like take thatuniverse and make an MMO, that
is like.
That is like the fuckingperfect universe.

Speaker 3 (33:57):
Well, they tried.
Bioware has done that in thepast with they took the universe
online not a mass fact.
But they, yeah, they're,they're the ones that did Star
Wars, the Old Republic andthey've never tried to adapt
like that universe.

Speaker 1 (34:11):
I feel like it would play fucking perfectly into it
with all the different races andI think what's the name, casey
Hudson Is that.

Speaker 3 (34:18):
I don't know if, if that would really be something
he would want to do, and I don'tthink the fans want that either
, to be honest.

Speaker 1 (34:25):
No, it's definitely is a different fan base, but you
want to talk about, like, worldbuilding and storytelling.
I feel like there's so much.

Speaker 3 (34:32):
Oh, that's the perfect universe.

Speaker 2 (34:33):
Yeah, there's so much to give to that was there was
spyware's MMO.
The Star Wars one was thatsuccessful.

Speaker 1 (34:40):
Yeah, it's still.
Yeah, it's on the decline, it's, I think it's.
I just watched a video about ittoday.
I think it's the 12th mostpopular MMO on the market right
now.

Speaker 3 (34:52):
It was never number one, but it was always up there.
It was never like like the MMO,but it was always relevant at
least, and they made their moneyback tenfold, like for sure.
But it was a long processbecause it was also one.
It was like it had an insanebudget, like they definitely

(35:13):
didn't make it back to mega gamebut they, they made their.
It was like something crazy,like $350 million it took to to
make it and it might have evenwow, yeah it was.
It was wild.
I I could be way off, but Iremember reading an article on
how, like, how intense it was toto build this game and they
announced it like 2009.

(35:34):
It didn't come out so like waylater and it kind of had the
lukewarm launch.
But the reason that it wassuccessful is because they just
never gave up on it.
And they just kept developingfor it over and over and over
again, and they had some prettydamn good cinematics that made
the game say they are waydifferent.

Speaker 1 (35:50):
The millennial ghost says fallout 70, remember the
fallout 76?
Calamity never should have beenan online universe.

Speaker 3 (35:56):
Exactly, yeah, that's that's what I would be afraid
of with the game like MassEffect.

Speaker 1 (36:00):
But there was also like way more shit wrong with
that game to more than just theuniverse itself right, I.
Don't know, I feel like I feellike, honestly, you could create
the use the world of MassEffect, because I think it's
fantastic, you can let thestorytelling unfold and then you

(36:21):
could use like Reaper events tolike reset the world, which
would be really kind of a sickidea, right Like it's kind of
like a perfect, and then you dolike, thought about you, set up
like.
Eve online where it's like youknow you build your warships and
stuff like that.
You have to like go to battleon if you lose whatever like
like it just resets and recycles.
Like.
I think there's something.

Speaker 3 (36:40):
You would have to separate the idea, because
people would want it to play andbe like Mass Effect, but online
, so you would have to createconstant sex cutscenes yeah like
you would have to Makeeverybody's commander, shiver it
has to be very well advertisedthat this was not going to play.
It's in the universe of MassEffect set during the time of

(37:02):
the Reaper invasion.
Yeah, and then that's it, butit's still an MMO and it plays
like an MMO.
That would be the only way toreally make that work, and I
think you're right.
There is a really good, healthyuniverse for a game like that,
but it just depends on how muchmoney you'd be willing to risk
and gamble and put into this fora community that Might not even

(37:25):
appreciate that.

Speaker 1 (37:26):
Yeah, you know, I don't think the core community
would appreciate it, but I feellike there there'd be, enough
market people for it and it hasa Recognizable name and brand
that you couldn't like.
Warcraft was a game before.
It was World of Warcraft, yeah.
I wonder though you couldtotally use the Reaper event as,
like your, seasonal events.
That would be so sick, like youhave, like your.

(37:49):
Each faction has to like, buildand prep for the war and imagine
this If you miss out or you dothings wrong, then you're not
ready for it and like, yeah,there's impacts that lead and
imagine this there's a hub worldin this MMO, so it and it's the
Citadel, but it's all of theCitadel.
Yes, fucking huge you can haveplayer housing right in the
fucking Citadel.
You take a rail to your spot.

(38:10):
Yeah, dude, I think, I thinkthere's a way.

Speaker 2 (38:13):
I think I know what it is.
I figured it out.
What why so I?

Speaker 1 (38:17):
bet why you hate this idea.

Speaker 2 (38:18):
No, no why there hasn't been figured it out?

Speaker 3 (38:20):
this sucks.
No, yeah, bob, I aware and ifyou look at EA's list of MMOs,
there's like zero, so I bet it'sa Star Wars, the old Republic
is and that was by aware.
But it was after what is?
He is still involved in that insome way white by aware.

Speaker 2 (38:40):
Bob bought them after one, after mass effect one, but
before two, okay, and I thinkStar Wars the old Republic was
out before then, or was at leastin development before then.
But I I, that is the onlyreason I can think of why they
wouldn't do.
It is because if you have StarWars the old Republic and say

(39:01):
that Came out before they mergedwith EA, that makes sense to
where the business was like youknow, let's get into MMOs.
And then you have EA who's like, nah, we don't do MMOs, you
know.
And they came in and said noand so, and now EA still owns by
aware, and so I think EAdeveloped earth and beyond.
Yeah, listen to these MMOs.

Speaker 3 (39:23):
It was their most prominent one from 2004.
No, it shut down 2004.
It was released in 2002.
It was a sci-fi based massivelymultiplayer online game see.

Speaker 2 (39:36):
So I think that's the reason.

Speaker 1 (39:37):
I think EA bought by aware and they don't know
there's not another studio thatlike or so they didn't they
themselves just own the IP.
Like, go farming out, doessomebody who does have
experience in doing it?
I don't know.
No, we're not even gonna play.
We're not gonna play that game.

Speaker 2 (39:54):
Yeah, they're like we want to make money.

Speaker 3 (39:56):
Yeah, did they do ultimate online?
That's a big one.

Speaker 2 (39:59):
It says ultimate, like if you look on the website,
the MMOs they have on e on EAis the secret world, dark age of
Camelot ultimate Ix, ultimateonline.

Speaker 3 (40:11):
I haven't heard of these other ones, but ultimate
online is pretty big is it stillactive?
I don't know.
I find out it's old.
I know that it came out likethe 90s.
I highly doubt 97 1997.
It ended in 2014, or is itstill going?

Speaker 2 (40:30):
you can.
You can buy add-ons right now.

Speaker 3 (40:32):
It's still going.
There's a huge community forultimate online, but obviously
it's not Not gonna be arevolutionized how people that's
my thesis on what caused it.

Speaker 2 (40:43):
I think it was a yay NEA just doesn't believe in MMOs
for some reason.

Speaker 1 (40:49):
I'm not sure if we cut out there, but we
Disconnected for a second, but Idon't see any drop frames, so
we're still good.
We're good, yeah, it's justthis kind of wild to see this
cuz you like.

Speaker 2 (41:04):
Everything you're saying makes sense.
I don't get why they didn'tlike this Especially especially
since they have Star Wars undertheir belt.
It's like you would think thatwould be something that they
would want to do with withmass-fect, but maybe they didn't
couldn't come up with like Ibet it was You'd have to.

Speaker 1 (41:21):
I don't think it was that all gameplay, but like, if
you, if you do it in a way thatI'm kind of thinking, of which
I'm right, naturally that.
You could make it much betterlike it like an Eve online where
you have all the planets thatyou can explore, you collect
resources and you build Forthese, like seasonal events
where you have to like defendthe incoming invasions, and

(41:43):
maybe you can do it like similarto Alliance and Horde, you know
, or Kersik looks and whatever,whatever factions, warring
factions there are, you Go andlike you could play as Reaper,
like that's a playable race thatyou could play.

Speaker 3 (41:55):
So you can reapers build the Reaper, you know, and
and attack the, the universe,and then like how awesome would
it be if there was like a PvPmode where it was like an
asymmetrical thing, where youhave, like you know, two Reapers
versus like 50, like Allianceships, dude.

Speaker 1 (42:15):
Yes, like that would be pretty fun, pretty cool.
And then you can like overcomethat right, like that's where
it's not meant to be, like thesuper balance thing right, it
could just be totally shitty.
But then you can come out withlike the whole idea of mass-fect
is really cool because you cancome out with new races all the
time, and those races becauseit's a new cycle, right, those
races would then have.
Oh damn, so it's gonna beprevious cycles too, yeah, so

(42:37):
like with the proteins you havelike your core, like, so that
you know the people who reallywant to play the game can always
use a new sonor character orwhatever, but like you could,
you could bring in liketemporary races that have like
really cool unique abilities orlike they have.
You know this superpower to dosomething and it plays different
.
That battle plays differentlyand if everybody loves that race
so much, you can include it inthe core.

(42:57):
You know race selection andstuff like I feel like it would
be a lot of fun to develop agame like that because you you
really could, you have, youcould do it however you really
want it would be really.

Speaker 3 (43:09):
I think you can develop a.
I don't know if I like the ideaof like each Season, if you
will, being a different cycleyou're preparing for this Omega
battle.
Yeah, I think, like I feel likeeach season could still be
within the cycle that humans areinvolved in, because there's so
much Story and content to tellthere.
But I do like the idea of, likeyou know, there could even be

(43:32):
something.
Like you know, season 4 and itintroduces that you can outplay,
is you know proteins or the theprotein was introduced, or like
that wouldn't really make senselore-wise, but like there are
things you could do to keep itexciting each season yeah, you
have a thresh or ma season wherethe thresh or ma's attack you
could have yeah, like thresh, orma's, like there's a whole

(43:54):
season.
And then like the basecharacters to create you.
Could you know the stuff likethe standard, like humans sorry,
I Turian like they would all bedifferent specials.
They look, you have your tanklike the Krogan's and.
Yeah, and then you'd have likeyour humans, which would be like
what an engineer or ever youknow like that would be.

(44:16):
I think that could be prettycool.

Speaker 1 (44:17):
Yeah, but I things like you know, like it's cycle
in the giant crazy shit.
You know, have to have yourkind of fun, man.
I mean, maybe you're right,maybe they're like the core game
doesn't have like the, theseasonal, like you're building
towards a battle.
But then there's, maybe there'sgame modes that, like you know,
in a two-hour window you canjump in, play a game and

(44:38):
simulate this whole thing, Idon't know, but I feel like you
could have.
There's so open-ended becauseyou can kind of you kind of
create this whole thing.

Speaker 3 (44:46):
You know you're united under, you're trying to
stop the Reaper each like seasonCould have like a bunch of
replayable content in it, butthen Um story-wise, narratively,
it could literally take placeover the course of like a week
in this universe.
It's like you can really dragthat out for a long-ass time.

Speaker 1 (45:05):
Well, goers too does this with like world-by-world,
like it's server versus serverversus server, and Basically
this is what you do it it totalsthe points from the whole week
and so, like you capture basesand you get more points per tick
, you know if you have morebases and more supply routes and
there's actual supply caravansthat are taking, you know,
supply from point A to point Band actually routing stuff so

(45:27):
that Supply helps you ward offdefenders from kind of doing
stuff.
Like you kind of have a lot offun with this, with this idea,
and it would be kind of fun tosee, like if you put in a lot of
time, it could be like acyclical base, like if you're
one of the top contributors forthat like weekly battle or
whatever it was.
You would then give the optionto like play devil's Advocate

(45:47):
for the next.

Speaker 3 (45:48):
I think that this.

Speaker 2 (45:50):
MMO plays the.

Speaker 1 (45:50):
Reaper, you're the one of the few selected the Try
and break?
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (45:55):
I think this MMO sounds fun, but I also don't.

Speaker 2 (45:59):
The purest in me says no ultimately, yeah Well, how
do you feel, though?
I'm not an MMO, so I mean, Iguess my, my opinion is more
they can make it, I'm not gonnaplay it.

Speaker 1 (46:12):
You would.
Everything I'm saying doesn'tsound interesting to you.
I don't like.

Speaker 2 (46:16):
MMOs unless the gameplay is fun and engaging.
I Hated World of Warcraftgameplay it is so boring to me.

Speaker 1 (46:26):
So, but to me, like MMOs that, like their whole
thing, is this gameplay.

Speaker 2 (46:33):
They're boring ass gameplay.
Okay in my opinion.

Speaker 1 (46:38):
So what did you not like about World of Warcraft?
Well, cuz every enemy, everylike normal enemy in World of
Warcraft is like, poses a realthreat.

Speaker 3 (46:45):
So you have to kind of like be careful.

Speaker 1 (46:47):
You have to like slash and jump away and then
slash and jump away.
It's how.

Speaker 2 (46:53):
How much control I don't have.

Speaker 3 (46:56):
I Click a button and it does something, and it does
something, I click a button.

Speaker 2 (47:00):
I Want to.
I want to go in there, likeElden Ring.
If it is a difficult enemy, Iwant to be able to dodge.

Speaker 1 (47:07):
Hit run.
You know I'm involved feelinvolved I.

Speaker 2 (47:10):
It bores the heck out of me to sit there and press a
button, but you can't take that.

Speaker 1 (47:13):
What World of Warcraft's combat model is?
Apply that to MMOs.

Speaker 3 (47:20):
We're like Think about even a game.
Like you know, I'll be carefulabout what I say about go wars.
But think about even, like mostMMOs, you don't go in
Anticipating like this is what Ihave to do.
You go in and say this is theexact pattern I need to hit my
skills Rotations and.
I need to have the perfectrotation, but it's less feel and

(47:45):
more knowledge.
It's more.
It's like it takes just as muchskill, possibly even more, but
it I get what Dylan's sayingbecause it feels like Less like
you're playing as the characterand more like you're the
overlord controlling thischaracter.

Speaker 2 (48:00):
Yeah, you're not.
You're giving them commands,versus, like God of War, I press
a button, he hits, you know,and I can feel the weight of the
hit and I can but I can see theargument both ways.

Speaker 3 (48:10):
I'm just like justifying what Dylan's saying
here.

Speaker 2 (48:12):
I Just, I don't like MMOs.
I tried World of Warcraft.
I didn't like it.
I tried.

Speaker 1 (48:20):
You tried black desert right.

Speaker 2 (48:22):
No, I didn't try black desert video, I think I
tried.
I Mean, I've tried a few gameswhere it's it's that Click a
button, hit, you know, and Ijust I don't like it.
I.

Speaker 3 (48:37):
Think for me more than even gameplay.
For me, its story, like itplayed it, could be the worst
gameplay ever, but if has acompelling story, I'll play it,
no doubt.

Speaker 1 (48:49):
Yeah, but I feel with that.
Again, though, I feel likethere's a lot.
Like people say, world ofWarcraft has the greatest story
in any game They've ever played,because it's like there's
literally thousands of hours ofcontent and lore building there.

Speaker 3 (49:03):
I'm not saying any.
I'm not dissing MMOs at all.
Well, I was giving you aperspective onto why I can kind
of see what Dylan is saying, butin the same breath, I said that
I can also see it a differentway as well.
And I think there's lots ofMMOs that have interesting and
fun stories like, even like StarWars, the Old Republic.

(49:24):
I didn't play that for thegameplay, I played it for the
the story in the world and I'm ahuge Star Wars fan, so I put a
lot of hours into that and it isalso a very Rotational base
style of combat and it's evenmore restricting than games like
yours, because you can't evenmove while casting.

Speaker 1 (49:40):
Yeah, quote-unquote spells and I've never really
played World of Warcraft so Ican't speak.
I've watched a lot of theircombat and it it definitely
looks like there's something tobe desired there Definitely is
more strategic than you act like.
I guess it's less immersivelike I, you don't, I don't know,
this is probably controversial,but like you don't feel like

(50:01):
you're that character In God ofWar, you probably feel like
you're that character.

Speaker 2 (50:05):
You feel like you're Spider-Man.

Speaker 1 (50:07):
You're almost like you're the operator.
You really feel like you havethe exaggerated swagger of
You're really trying to likemicromanage your health, your
energy.
You know the environment.
I could see that.
It's so over, but you guys butyou both love, like Mass Effect
is both one of your guys'favorite games of all time, and

(50:27):
the combat in that game blows.
I'll be honest, it just is.
It's very straightforward.
So, like in that game is reallyjust point and shoot.
So is that you play that gameless for the combat and more the
story, like the story canoverride the gameplay for you.
I mean it could Like.

Speaker 2 (50:45):
So if the MMO, if the Mass Effect MMO, if it had a
good enough story, I guess Icould, I could try and get into
it.
But the thing is, is most MMOsyou're just a drop in the bucket
.
You like the how it's designedis for you to not be important,
like you're sent.
You're a little important butthere's a million other players

(51:05):
just like you and so it's likethose stories don't sell me.
I can't get invested, like ifit was an MMO and it had like
deep choices like Mass.
You know, I don't think it thatthose you can have deep choices
in an MMO, yeah, in an MMO,because what you do ultimately
can't affect what other playersare doing Right.

Speaker 3 (51:27):
But I think there's two things there.
One I really don't think Ithink saying that the combat in
Mass Effect blows is anexaggeration.
For sure I think that it may be.
You know, I wouldn't say thatMMO combat blows, even though
I'm not a huge fan of it.
I think it's pretty standard,it's pretty basic, it's just
third-person shooter mechanics,so it's nothing that's

(51:49):
revolutionary or nothing that'sgoing to stand out.

Speaker 1 (51:51):
It's straightforward.
It's also yeah.

Speaker 3 (51:52):
But also I did state that I don't care what the
gameplay is, as long as thestory's fun.
So that's really all I'd, youknow, have to say on that.
I think that Mass Effect has oneof the best written stories in
gaming Probably ever, to behonest with you, and so for me
that trumps anything else, and Ido like what Dylan said when it

(52:15):
comes to the like, you're justlike a pin dropped in a bucket
where one of the best stories,one of the best parts about
games that I enjoy is like theimpact and the weight of your
decisions, and it's it's.
It's hard to sell that and anMMO when, because there's
nothing you can do per se, thatbecause it can't affect the

(52:36):
millions of other players thatare playing.
So when you play an MMO, it'smore about the game, the
gameplay, the community, thechallenge.
It's a different approach.
They're not approaching it inthe same way that you would a
single player game.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:52):
You wouldn't pick up World of Warcraft to like play
the story.

Speaker 3 (52:56):
It might have one of the best stories ever, but
you're not.
You're not playing World ofWarcraft because I heard this
had a really good story, Likeyou know.

Speaker 1 (53:04):
Yeah, I don't even think you can make it through
the game with that goal in mind,you have to lean on other
people.

Speaker 2 (53:10):
I think with World of Warcraft too.
I mean.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Ithink the story that, like,
they're so hyped up about it'snot even about you.
It's about characters that,like, are NPCs and they have
cool stories and you're justkind of there to help them.

Speaker 1 (53:25):
Yeah, I'm pretty sure .

Speaker 2 (53:27):
Like the Lich King and you know like there's tons
of lore.

Speaker 3 (53:30):
How cool he is Pretty sure that's how it works and
it's like he's.

Speaker 2 (53:32):
he's an NPC, he's not you.

Speaker 3 (53:33):
I don't know enough about it to comment on that.

Speaker 1 (53:35):
You don't matter Like you're not the leader of the
Alliance and you're not theleader of the Horde, depending
on whatever you chose.
You're just a part of theirminion army kind of thing, and I
mean there's good stories,where you can be a part of
something bigger.
But you said you would.
There's no way you would playit.
You really wouldn't even playit.

Speaker 2 (53:54):
I might give it a try because I like Mass Effect.
But it's, it's going to.
It's going to have to do somework to get me into it.

Speaker 3 (54:01):
I would 100% play it because it's Mass Effect.
I would.
I would do myself a disservice.
I didn't give a shot.

Speaker 1 (54:06):
I feel like you would play it like you would like you
did with D4.
You play the story and thenyou're done.
If it's you, move on yeah.

Speaker 2 (54:13):
I mean if it's good and if I can get.
I mean nowadays MMOs, thecombat's, you know it's, it's.
I can handle it a little bitbetter.

Speaker 1 (54:22):
Did you like the combat of Diablo?
Because that's click a button.
Not really, because I I'vetried to think of a button
that's a game.
That's not like click a button.

Speaker 3 (54:31):
Well, if you reduce everything down to its most base
form, it is all click a button,click a button.

Speaker 2 (54:36):
But it's more.

Speaker 3 (54:37):
I think he's thinking more about rotations.

Speaker 2 (54:39):
It's more like I think it's more about rotations
and it's like it's.
It's.
I have a direct line to theaction, or I like each button I
don't know Like I have morecontrol over exactly what my
character does, versus pressingattack, versus with Kratos, and

(55:04):
I know you can, you can like,you can say each more.
I guess it's just the timing ofit, it's just a real time.

Speaker 3 (55:10):
It's kind of hard to say.
Here's the problem has those,but they're kind of I think here
here's the disconnect so youwere confusing with just because
it's not a gameplay that wenecessarily like doesn't mean
it's bad gameplay, it'sdifferent yeah.
So like if you say I don'tthink that the gameplay is good

(55:31):
and MMO it's, it's more or less.
I don't think that the gameplayin MMO is fun, but that's not
it.
It can be very well designed.
It's just designed in a waythat you know you're not, it's
just in my opinion.

Speaker 2 (55:44):
I'm not a fan of MMO.

Speaker 1 (55:46):
Did you play Star Wars the Overpump?

Speaker 2 (55:49):
I think I did.
You probably wouldn't haveliked it.
I tried it and I don't like it.
I just I don't like.
You don't like the combat ofthat one.
Yeah, I don't like watching ananimation after hitting a
commandbut I know that's weird, but
it's like I'm trying tounderstand that.
For example, god of War, I hitR1, I hit, and it's like I can

(56:12):
just do that over and over and Ican, just, I could just do that
, and you could add, you can mixand match combos, I don't know
what, and it's hard to describe,because it's like you can do
that in other games.

Speaker 3 (56:24):
But it's more skills.
I get what you're saying andabilities.

Speaker 2 (56:27):
But it's just like I have more precise control of the
exact movements that charactermakes.

Speaker 3 (56:33):
Versus telling them a command to do something, I am
making them do something Versuspressing 1, 4, 2, 6, 1, 4, 2, 6,
jump 1, 4, and then in EldenRing you never approach a fight
with.
I need to hit this rotation tobeat this boss Right, and I need
to do it just right or it's allgoing to fail.

Speaker 2 (56:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (56:53):
Unless you're a speed runner and Elden Ring, I'm
going to go in there.
I want to feel how this bossplays and I'm going to adapt to
it as I play versus.
And it's not like it's harderto do it that way, it's just.
It's a different approach togaming.

Speaker 1 (57:09):
I guess what I'm struggling with is I've never
thought of an MMO like being astyle of gameplay.
It's more of like a style ofthe world.

Speaker 3 (57:26):
I don't think an MMO is a style of gameplay.
I think that most MMOs havefallen to a they've adopted a
certain style, but that's notwhat makes it an MMO Melendial
Ghost.
He brought up the fact becausewe're talking about Mass Effect.
Elder Scrolls as a series wasgreat, but then Elder Scrolls
Online kind of ruined the worldfor him, I mean.

Speaker 1 (57:49):
I think that there's Elder Scrolls Online is still
one of the largest.
It is, it's crazy successful.

Speaker 3 (57:56):
You do lose some of your base.
You lose a lot of your base.
I think there's a lot of peoplethat will play Elder Scrolls
Online that probably have nevereven played Elder Scrolls, and
it's a different fan base.
For sure, mass Effect.
He thinks that Mass Effectwould suffer as an MMO, I think,
if it's done well.
I think that they would stillsucceed if it's done well and

(58:18):
designed well.
But I do think that I thinkmaybe only 40% of the original
fan base would fall you over, sothey'd have to create a really
good game to get those people inthat weren't already Mass
Effect fans.

Speaker 1 (58:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (58:33):
Which is exactly what happened with World of Warcraft
.
I guarantee you, 95% of peoplethat play World of Warcraft
never played Warcraft.

Speaker 1 (58:42):
Yeah, I mean they came out in 92.
Actually the last Warcraft game.
I don't think came out thatlong ago, Like 24 years ago
maybe.
The latest one, I think, cameout in like 14 or 17 or
something Really.

Speaker 3 (58:55):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (58:56):
I don't know if it was a remake or it was just.
I think it was just calledWarcraft.
See, I just don't.
It's just, that's it.
I've never thought of it in thatway that there's like a
stylistic to it, because to methat's a lot like.
To me it's like that's likealmost like saying like all RPGs
sort of play out the same way,because I feel like there is

(59:16):
such variation in terms of thecombat, like to me, the greatest
combat experience in any gameI've ever played, bar none Guild
Wars 2.
Guild Wars 2, to me, has themost immersive combat in like
it's not even close, likethere's a dodge to evade and the
visual elements of it areamazingly beautiful.

(59:38):
It's very skill based, it'simmersive.
I always felt like that wassome of the most.
I felt like I was like thatcharacter because you're like
you're literally in theredodging shit and trying to
manipulate position.
I just have never thought of itin that context.

(01:00:00):
World of Warcraft, definitelythe pacing is so slow,
especially like the earlyleveling experience.
I've watched like people go inplay World of Warcraft Classic
and which is probably what youplayed years ago, dude, that
does not look fun at all.
Like it's like literally likethe normal enemies sometimes are

(01:00:21):
like more difficult to some ofthe bosses.
So you like go hit a wolf andyou like stab it and you're just
like literally jumpingbackwards, like trying to like
keep your momentum and stab andthen jumping backwards and like
that doesn't look fun at all.

Speaker 3 (01:00:35):
But I mean I know you've mentioned in the past Dan
will brings up a good pointwhere he says do you just mean
turn based games?
And I don't know if it's justturn based games, because a lot
of the style you're talkingabout, like Diablo 4, is not a
turn based game.

Speaker 2 (01:00:52):
No, it's hard to compare it to something like God
of War.
The best way I can think to getmy point across is if you look
at a shooter so you have like,say in like Guild Wars or in
some other you know some likeMMO game.

Speaker 1 (01:01:12):
Some fantasy.

Speaker 2 (01:01:14):
If you're casting a spell, you're shooting an arrow.
In those games it's like youhave a percentage accuracy hit.
You click a button, yourcharacter automatically aims,
fires right and you just lockedonto an enemy.
I in like the way I like.
It is like I physically amaiming and I'm the one.
If I pull the trigger and I'maccurate, it's going to hit.
It's not.

(01:01:35):
I'm going to hit, target thisguy and shoot and then I watch
my character shoot.
I want to be the one shooting.

Speaker 3 (01:01:44):
So millennial ago says like one button combo,
you're not a family.

Speaker 2 (01:01:50):
Yeah, I guess I'm starting to like even though
it's hard because it's sonuanced.

Speaker 1 (01:01:56):
I get, I can get.
You have to really break thisdown.

Speaker 3 (01:01:59):
What does game play mean?

Speaker 2 (01:02:01):
Yeah, because like, because that's why the only way
I can really think to describeis like is a is you know a
shooter?
Because it's like in an MMO,it's more.
I'm watching my character shootand I really have no agency
over whether he's going to hitor miss.
It's just he's going to, he'sgoing to hit or you know there's
whatever it is versus Versus alike shooter, like Call of Duty,
I'm aiming and if it's onreticle I'm going to hit right

(01:02:27):
and it's I'm the one aiming,it's not you person.
Aim at this person fire.

Speaker 3 (01:02:34):
I get what you're talking about 100%.
Honestly, I do.
It's hard to describe but the mything is is I can find
enjoyment out of both ways, andso that's why it's like I've
never been turned off by by that.
But I, for me, I think what Ithink you're when it comes to
gameplay like that you're morelocked into rules and there's

(01:02:59):
less rules and freedom, becausethat you have to like in order
to get something accomplishedsometimes is very specific ways.
You have to do it in a, and Imaybe we shouldn't just say MMOs
, but maybe like I mean, howwill we even call that like?

Speaker 2 (01:03:15):
poor game play RTS real time strategy real time
strategy or.
Arpg.

Speaker 1 (01:03:24):
I don't know both of those and deploy similar
mechanics.
But yeah, I mean honestly, Ithink what you're defining is
just the type of gameplay thatyou enjoy, and I don't think
that that's limited to MMOs.
That's all I'm trying to say isI don't think like well, I
don't think it has a style.

Speaker 2 (01:03:38):
I mean, I think we got past that it's not just MMOs
.
Kyle said of it's not just them, but that's the one they
typically adopt like.
But I mean, you look at, Iplayed Elder Scrolls Online, so
correct me if I'm wrong, but Ithink that played like it played
like Elder Scrolls.
Yeah, like you could.

Speaker 3 (01:03:57):
You could you press the button and I played that
somehow it just didn't feelquite as good.

Speaker 2 (01:04:02):
And I think that ties into that's.
Another thing is I like to feelI like it to be a tailored
experience to me, right to I'mgoing I.
Certain games can get me togrind for loot, but when it
comes to like grinding forleveling, like I want to feel
like I'm actually hitting theenemy and they're they're

(01:04:24):
hurting for the level I'm basedon versus I think, like Elder
Scrolls Online, big turn off forme was I sat there and I was
just like and it felt like I hada paper sword hitting a spun,
hitting him over and over and,over and over and over, until
they died versus Skyrim, thegame you know.
You could hit him and you couldlike, if you were there level or
higher, you can wipe him out.

Speaker 3 (01:04:45):
I mean, if we're talking about if I'm being
honest here, and this is comingfrom a Skyrim fanboy that
gameplay does blow.
Yeah, it does.
It's so basic and it's soSeriously.
Yeah, it's so like, especially,if you like, just get off of
like an Elder Ring gameplay andyou go play Skyrim.
Yeah it's so fucking clunky.

Speaker 1 (01:05:03):
Why is that game so popular?

Speaker 3 (01:05:05):
man it's just, it's just a fun like world to be in
there's so much freedom.

Speaker 2 (01:05:10):
Really what?

Speaker 3 (01:05:10):
it is and you can play it.
Games are more commonplace nowwhen they do this, but oblivion
and Morrowind, but really Skyrim.
It was like one of the firstreally big games that blew up in
popularity to where, like, youcan approach it in any way.
You felt like you weren't tieddown to the main story, you

(01:05:33):
weren't like it was just so.

Speaker 2 (01:05:35):
That's really what kind of you could break into
this guy's house, kill him andhe ended up being a guy, being a
quest giver or something, andyou know.

Speaker 3 (01:05:44):
Yeah, skyrim is a decade old, so I mean things
have evolved since then, buteven for 2011, I feel like third
person melee combat was alittle more sophisticated than
that.

Speaker 1 (01:05:59):
What else came out in 2011.
Dragon's.

Speaker 3 (01:06:03):
Dogma came out like right after that and say what
you want about that game.
The gameplay of it was muchbetter.

Speaker 2 (01:06:11):
Dark Souls came out in 2011.
Mass Effect 3 came out in 2012.

Speaker 3 (01:06:16):
Mass.

Speaker 1 (01:06:17):
Effect 3 was 2012.

Speaker 3 (01:06:18):
It's an old game, man , wow.
Mass Effect 1 came out in 2007.

Speaker 1 (01:06:25):
Yeah, that's.
I thought.
Honestly 3 came out earlier.
In that I thought they did likekind of like one year, one year
, one year.

Speaker 3 (01:06:31):
Yeah, I think they did like a little bit of a delay
between two and three or oneand two.
No, they don't have about twoyears in between, I guess two
and a half.
Three Bethesda created, so ithas an ancient game engine.

Speaker 2 (01:06:46):
Yeah, can you believe ?
Creation engine is still usingcreation engine.

Speaker 3 (01:06:50):
The same engine that they used for Starfield is the
one that they used in Fallout 3.
And they're going to use it forElder.

Speaker 1 (01:06:58):
Scrolls.
What a joke.

Speaker 3 (01:07:01):
What an absolute joke .
But okay, I feel like thosegames, like Call of Duty, that
engine feels, like it's designed, or at least they know it Makes
you really feel like yoursoldier.

Speaker 2 (01:07:12):
Well, it feels like they know it, like it, you know
it works.
Whereas Creation Engine, thesame bugs insist in it from like
years ago.
And it's like why do you carryit around if these bugs are
persistently in every singlegame?

Speaker 3 (01:07:27):
I think I've been taught Howard with the 16 times
the detail.
I got memes so hard.

Speaker 1 (01:07:35):
So like did they just have, like the day, one patch
from like the modding community?

Speaker 3 (01:07:39):
They didn't even make their own patches.

Speaker 1 (01:07:42):
These modders are damn geniuses.
Download their shit if you wantit.
Skyroom.

Speaker 3 (01:07:48):
The bug is a feature at this point.
I still would feel comfortableputting Skyrim like in maybe my
top 10.
Of all time, it would be highin the top 10.
It wouldn't be in my top five.

Speaker 1 (01:07:59):
I think it has to be.

Speaker 3 (01:08:01):
But it has to be with how I put an ungodly amount of
time in that game and it has aspecial place in my heart.
But you can also recognize alot of the very dated things
about that game and a lot of thedated things in that game still
exist in Bethesda games, whichis the most wild part about that
.
Yeah, even dice is revamped,their frostbite engine.

(01:08:24):
Between every battlefield theyhave dice.
They've had frostbite Like one,one point, five, two, three,
what are they on now?

Speaker 2 (01:08:31):
But andromeda was on frostbite.

Speaker 3 (01:08:34):
Yeah, but that's because Bioware is forced to use
that.
Because, yeah, yeah, it waslike all our games will be
developed by frostbite andBioware used it and they didn't
know what the fuck they weredoing, because they.
It's an engine made for firstperson and they came fresh off
of Only using unreal they onlyever used unreal.
And then they were told youhave to develop your next game

(01:08:55):
with frostbite, and they justdidn't do it.
Well, it just didn't translateWell in frostbite, I'm tired.
Frostbite is actually anincredibly beautiful engine if,
like Person, knows what they'redoing with it.
I Still remember to this daywhen battlefield 3, when they're
advertising that, oh my god, itjust it looked so good,

(01:09:18):
especially when comparing itelse when you looked at a call
duty at the time.
Yeah, it was so ahead of everyother shooter in the game game,
market water for it.

Speaker 1 (01:09:26):
My offer to credible.
No, I mean the physics thatthey had in that game too.
I mean, I Kind of feel like, oh, one of the things that
actually we were gonna talkabout was this ashen's ashes of
creation.
I had it on my list here.
I.
Know neither of you, probablyhave you guys even heard of this

(01:09:47):
game.

Speaker 3 (01:09:48):
No is this?
It's an MMO.
Does it have fun?

Speaker 1 (01:09:55):
Have fun.
Gave it no.
It's good game.
It's like Elden Ring with guns.

Speaker 3 (01:10:01):
Okay, that's every, every article I remember with
guns.
Have you seen?
It's all the articles.
Now is it's Elden Ring meets?
Yeah, it's.
It's always like it'sridiculous they're starting.

Speaker 1 (01:10:17):
It's Elden.

Speaker 3 (01:10:18):
Ring meets animal crossing.

Speaker 1 (01:10:20):
Gotta play it.
It is like it's actually kindof similar Took almost what we
were talking about with thisidea for Mass Effect's MMO, but
it's not set in a space world,it's been set.
It's set in like a medievallandscape, but the idea is
there's like warring factionsand anyway, like there's this

(01:10:42):
really cool caravanning systemwhich is you can't, you can
carry loot from node to node,which is like, as you kind of
build your influence, yourfaction grows, you can carry
loot from node to node on yourperson, but you can.
You're obviously limited by howmuch you can carry, right, you
can.
You can only carry so much inyour pockets.

(01:11:03):
So there's this wholecaravanning system in this game
and I've been kind of followingthis game.
It's one of those Kickstartertype Building games.
Yes, it's not real.

Speaker 3 (01:11:12):
Is this gonna be like the day before?
Yeah, like like millennialghost.

Speaker 1 (01:11:16):
So actually these developers have done a really
amazing job of stayingtransparent about their games.
They did a live demo of thiswhole feature.

Speaker 2 (01:11:25):
Yeah, okay, I believe 0% of that, billy.
They did a live demo.
I did a live demo, liveplaytest, where it's just a
cinematic that we read theiralpha comes out at the end of
the year.

Speaker 1 (01:11:37):
Okay, I think they've actually they've raised like a
shit ton of money.
Yeah, they're gonna run awaywith it.

Speaker 3 (01:11:42):
So did the ouya, the micro console that I'm not gonna
fucking defend the model.

Speaker 1 (01:11:47):
That's building this game All right.
I know that it's flawed, okay,but so far it seems like it's
actually going pretty legit.
Regardless of how you feelabout that, we've been hurt
before.
I know we have millennial ghost.

Speaker 2 (01:12:02):
So doesn't sound like you believe it.

Speaker 1 (01:12:07):
Okay, I'm, we could.
I could defend this later, Iguess.

Speaker 3 (01:12:09):
But regardless, patrick star, when he keeps
putting the fish hooks in hismouth.

Speaker 2 (01:12:17):
This is like dangerous to you.

Speaker 1 (01:12:24):
Anyways.
So they have this wholecaravanning system and you know,
obviously you're limited tolike what you can store in your
pockets but like if you want tomove massive amounts of
resources between nodes is whatthey're calling it.
Basically, where your influenceis, you have to do it through
this, that you can do it throughthis caravanning system, and it
was.
It would look like it was a lotof fun where basically people

(01:12:44):
of your faction could go out andlike walk and kind of Guide and
protect this caravan as it getsto its destination.
All the while you're open tothe world.
For like a raid and Like thisraiding group came in and
actually destroyed the caravanand wiped all the players and
like stole the loot, and thenthey basically built their own

(01:13:05):
caravan and then they got theircaravan to like a river and they
Deconstructed the caravan andtook the resources inside and
built a raft with it and thensailed down the river and then
built Another caravan once theygot off the river and then drove
the caravan Back to like one oftheir nodes and stuff I got and
it was like this all the whilethey're getting raided and
attacked and you're defendingthis and it's like all this

(01:13:27):
stuff is going and I kind oflike those like Open, super
unbalanced, kind of like Zergstyle, like you know, supply
raids and I was just watching itand I was like that is so much
fun, that looks like fuckinggood-ass time of you know, like
the, the, the crazy shit thatcan happen in those types of
events.

(01:13:48):
But I've been watching thedevelopment of this game for
like two years now and it's theyalways take feedback from, like
their live streams and kind ofinstituted in the game.
So it's like a one of thosesuper high visibility games so I
Am this negative sold on that.
And on the model of what, onhow it's being built.

Speaker 2 (01:14:11):
I have no faith that it's actually gonna be that game
.

Speaker 1 (01:14:13):
I I okay, the demo was literally that yeah like it
was working.
Functionality.

Speaker 2 (01:14:21):
I.
When it's an alpha one instantalpha I'll, then I'll start to
believe them, but until then,this guy has a scene of fucking
quarter.
Second of this, because I'veheard this story so many times.
The game looks amazing.
He's demo he has never.

Speaker 3 (01:14:38):
You're a hater.

Speaker 2 (01:14:40):
I got burned Still has never.

Speaker 1 (01:14:41):
He goes from no man's guy.

Speaker 3 (01:14:43):
He really has you guys, not heal from no man.

Speaker 1 (01:14:46):
I learned my lesson.
But the difference is did noman's guy do like a demo, or did
they just?

Speaker 3 (01:14:52):
They did and they did it there's a controversial
thing where he was playing.
He was live testing it, andthen they proved that he wasn't
even playing.

Speaker 1 (01:15:02):
Oh.

Speaker 2 (01:15:06):
Oh God.
So, like I said, once it's analpha, then I'll start to look
at it, but until then, well,they crashed the boat on
accident.

Speaker 1 (01:15:14):
This is all rattlesnake.

Speaker 2 (01:15:16):
Salesman fucking.

Speaker 1 (01:15:18):
This is how a lot of indie games are being built, by
the way, so yeah, but what oneonce all right console boy.

Speaker 2 (01:15:26):
When one of them sounds too good to be true, it
probably is Yep.

Speaker 1 (01:15:32):
Okay, there's, I get that.
There's, obviously like there's, there's remember cyberpunk.
I do, but that's not even closeDemo.

Speaker 3 (01:15:43):
I know that's not even a good argument, because we
fell in love with that game.

Speaker 2 (01:15:47):
We got hurt by that, don't you?
Did I this, billy?

Speaker 3 (01:15:50):
I watched the live stream you gave it a nine at
launch.
I did.
We listen back to that.
Even I gave it a seven greatgame and Then I gave it a four
on consoles.
So I Think that's it's totallyacceptable and fine to be
excited about something likethat.

(01:16:11):
It sounds like it could be fun.
But if there's anything thatthe the gaming industry has
taught us is to take everythingwith a grain of salt and, as you
approach it, just be cautious.
Yeah there's nothing wrong withbeing hyped about, you know, if
it looks fun.

Speaker 1 (01:16:24):
I love that.
I love that this is an avenuefor like don't want you to be
hurt I.
Well, this game is sort of likeright for that, because it is
like it's peaked.
How it's peaked, like if youfollow MMOs At all you've heard
of ashes of creation and it iskind of wild to to see it's
right because they keep gettinga lot of funding and people

(01:16:45):
pumping in a lot of assets to itand They've kind of changed the
scope of their game and whatthey're trying to do.

Speaker 2 (01:16:51):
So hopefully they can kind of reign it in gonna be
like oh, star Citizen just nevercome out.

Speaker 1 (01:17:00):
I Feel like, okay, so it's actually come out, but
it's just in that like perpetual, like alpha beta stage, like
you could play star citizen.

Speaker 2 (01:17:09):
Yeah, but it's like it's never gonna get it, never
gonna get an official release.
Have you seen how much some oftheir spaceships are?

Speaker 1 (01:17:15):
I've seen.

Speaker 2 (01:17:16):
Yes like thousands of dollars, like tens of thousands
.

Speaker 1 (01:17:19):
Well, you know I'm looks incredible like I actually
watch.
Jack was the jacksepticeyething actually went and did like
a whole thing.
He's like I actually love thisgame he did like a whole, like.

Speaker 2 (01:17:30):
I hope it comes out with, you know, like, like fully
releases in it.
It's whatever.
You know.
All they promised early releaseforever complete with DLC.

Speaker 1 (01:17:39):
Yes, day one DLC.
I Remember when they weretalking about that it was like
what the fuck does that evenmean?
What?

Speaker 3 (01:17:49):
Day, one day, that was.

Speaker 2 (01:17:50):
Javik in mass spec 3.

Speaker 3 (01:17:52):
Javik was a day one DLC.
You wouldn't know that becausehe only played the legendary and
you know it's crazy about thatis he was actually interval to
the story.
He was written in With thestory in mind and then, like
before it launched EA, was likemaking with DLC character and he
was already written as one ofthe main characters of the game.

(01:18:12):
Can you imagine that gamewithout Javik?

Speaker 1 (01:18:15):
No, I literally like the story would fall honestly to
gain massive.

Speaker 2 (01:18:18):
I wonder if he had a bigger part, but because of that
they possibly like what if hewas hurt?
Decide that's crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:18:26):
Anyway, anyways, obviously I am like the anti
hype guy.

Speaker 2 (01:18:31):
I don't know you're hype about this one.
I just I've never seen you likethis.
I want you to be careful.
I think you're not the antihype guy.

Speaker 3 (01:18:36):
I think you're careful, but it's very easy for
you to Fall in love withsomething like oh, for sure that
you see, like you're very likeZero to a hundred when it's
something that you're interestedin.

Speaker 1 (01:18:48):
This was the great, it's 100%.
I definitely, I definitely amlike the, I guess, the hype man
for like that kind of so getting.

Speaker 3 (01:18:57):
But at the same time, it's very easy for you to not
buy something not preorder.

Speaker 1 (01:19:02):
But what I will say is I do appreciate the style in
which they are going about theirdevelopment and I think more
studios at great street is.
A guy who started was like thedirector for World of Warcraft
originally.
Then he went to a riot andhelped them start up their
they're actually riot games iscoming out with an MMO.
It would be interesting to seewhat that looks like.

(01:19:22):
I'll probably give it a shot.
But he actually just startedhis new studio.
It's called ghosts.
I think it's project ghost orsomething it doesn't have a name
yet called he goes for the gameis called Project ghosts in the
studio something.
I don't remember what his studiois called, but anyway, he's
like, he's like a legend in theMMO world and he they're doing

(01:19:46):
like this whole new model oflike extremely visible game
development when it's like.
Here's what we're talking about.
This is what we're trying toaccomplish.
Here's the gameplay mechanics.
And what do you guys, what'syour feedback?

Speaker 3 (01:19:58):
Well, we're gonna Larry back yeah worked out
really well, I think.

Speaker 1 (01:20:04):
I think there's validity to this and like it's
not just like we're gonna besuper and you just like Talk
about it, but like actuallybeing about it.
You know, I think midnightstudio with what doctor
disrespect is trying to do withhis BR same kind of thing.
Super high visibility, peopleget to go in test the game,
provide feedback, like I thinkthe person should be 20% faster,

(01:20:26):
you know, and they can weighall these things before the game
gets actually.

Speaker 3 (01:20:29):
So on my blood list to play doctor disrespects
better I am.

Speaker 1 (01:20:34):
Honestly.

Speaker 2 (01:20:36):
Really was.
I don't know about that one awhile ago.

Speaker 1 (01:20:38):
I was hyped for the studio because of the way that
they're developing it, but thegame itself does not, it looks.
I never played PUBG becauseit's not a game that I'd be
interested in.
It's too slow.
I kind of want to go aroundfucking find the one gun that I
really want to play with and andand click through inventory for
10 minutes.
All right, I'm looted up andthen to get fucking headshot

(01:20:59):
sniped in the middle the streetlike that's not fun.
You know what I mean.
I want to Now NFTs.
You're sold on that, I justspent two million dollars.
I cringe so hard when he wascoming out, but he never really
talked about it.
It was like the studio and howthey're leveraging it and they

(01:21:21):
have so pivoted from that dude,every game that you have you
heard any game talking aboutthat.
We're gonna help NFTs, not one.
Why?
Because no longer valuable,it's a fad.
It was only a fad becausepeople thought they could make
money on it.
That's what creates a lot offads.

(01:21:42):
It's crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:21:46):
The.
The last thing we were gonnatalk about, or maybe last, was
Pedro Pascal.
Oh, that's mr Fantastic.
That's official.

Speaker 1 (01:21:54):
It's not official.
No, no, no, no oh.

Speaker 2 (01:21:57):
I swear that the post I sent you was like that was
speculation.

Speaker 1 (01:22:02):
Yeah, yeah, that was not official it was 100%.
It not official.
I I'll give my reaction whenyou guys look it up.
I Wouldn't like that and thereason is I love Pedro Pascal.
But the whole thing with mrFest fantastic is he has this
allure of being this genius andmad science are not mad

(01:22:22):
Scientists like crazy greatscientists and yada, yada, yada
like good guy.
I don't know if I really getthose vibes from Pedro Pascal.
It seems like that, likelovable Dip shit that you you
would want to cast, not not asthis guy that is supposed to be
this super genius now, unlessthis, unless, it's like I could

(01:22:42):
see Pedro Pascal being a betterfit for Iron man than he would,
you know, with, like the quirkywitty you know.

Speaker 3 (01:22:51):
I have a hard time buying him as the smartest man
alive.
Yeah, you know that's nothingagainst Pedro Pascal.
I think he probably do a decentenough job, but it's not like
that.
If that is official, I don'tthink it is.
From what I searched, it lookslike that's just likely at this
point.
But that doesn't height me upfor a fantastic, for that's not

(01:23:12):
like.
Oh my god, what an amazingchoice.
But it's hard for me to gethyped for anything Marvel.
I'm not gonna lie to you.
When I watched the Deadpool andWolverine trailer and I should
have been hyped at the fact thatthe TVA was in it and it's
being brought into the MCU I Waskind of like I'm not gonna lie

(01:23:33):
to you, I'm just, I'm not Marvelis.
They're gonna have to do a lotto really bring me back into
that mind so here's whathappened.

Speaker 2 (01:23:41):
So SAG aftra.
Screen actors Guild the screenactors Guild put out a post for
huh after?
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:23:50):
SAG stands for screen actors.

Speaker 1 (01:23:52):
What is after, after, after uh after uh, you're too
old to play, mr Fantastic sospecific.

Speaker 2 (01:24:00):
But I guess they they put out a post about Pedro
Pascal and they were saying,like Pascal recently wrapped
production on Ridley Scott'sgladiator tune will soon begin
production of Marvel StudiosFantastic Four.
And Then that they posted thatand then quickly that got
deleted and edited to notfeature that it will begin soon

(01:24:23):
production probably gonna happen.
So SAG after somehow got aninside scoop or you know
whatever, but that's whathappened.
That's.
It's not official, but it, it,it.

Speaker 1 (01:24:33):
I don't know he's probably gonna end up doing a
really great job, but I thinkthat honestly, john Krasinski
showing up in multiverse ofmadness ruined that, because it
was Such a bad representation ofthat character.

Speaker 3 (01:24:49):
He was literally on screen for like five minutes and
they got turned into spaghetti.
Yeah and I just I Feel like hewould have been better if they
would have done it correctly andI, just like I said, I Just
can't get super hyped foranything Marvel anymore, like

(01:25:10):
it's just.
It's just, I've got so muchfatigue.
I'm Marvel right now, I'm justenjoying other things.

Speaker 1 (01:25:18):
I don't know if I've seen it.

Speaker 2 (01:25:20):
I thought it was pretty good.

Speaker 3 (01:25:21):
I didn't dislike it.
I think like, but it wasn'tlike did you watch Loki yet.
No, I Just don't, I don't wantto.

Speaker 1 (01:25:31):
I'm not gonna lie to you guys.

Speaker 2 (01:25:32):
I don't feel like watching Loki no matter how good
our recommendation was.
He just doesn't care about it,you know.

Speaker 3 (01:25:38):
I'm over it.
I'm over it.

Speaker 2 (01:25:41):
All right, greatest it's installment by Marvel, I
thought we were his best friendsand he would care about our
opinion together forever.
Yes.

Speaker 3 (01:25:49):
All right, well, have fun.

Speaker 1 (01:25:52):
He's so content.
I just if you could look upspoilers of your own like story
of your own life.
Would you know this?

Speaker 3 (01:26:02):
king of spoilers.
Content is different than mylife.

Speaker 1 (01:26:07):
Let's see how this checks out there.
Oh Fuck, I get fired or I guessI'll just lottery off myself
now.
Well, I know how that ends shit, all right.

Speaker 3 (01:26:19):
No, I I'm more excited about other things in
media now than I am about Marvel, like Marvel's over saturated
Millennial ghosts.

Speaker 1 (01:26:28):
I think you're a hundred percent right in that
and I think To Kyle's point.
I understand the fatigue to.
I kind of have felt it too.
Yeah, I'm looking forward tothis year as a palette cleanse
of them slowing down.
I think they made a mistake ofdoing way too much.
It was at one point I couldn'teven keep up.
Yeah, no, it was way too muchgoing on.
Have you watched this?

(01:26:48):
Have you watched this?
Have you?
Oh, you got to see this becauseit's got impact and I'm like
dude, I I'm already like chokingdown your content, like pretty
much like had a Marvel movieevery two months at one point.

Speaker 2 (01:26:59):
It's like we went to go see one well months later, we
went to go see one in between.

Speaker 3 (01:27:03):
I'm very behind in movies now To like.
I think that's part of it.
Do of that.
I haven't been able to keep up.

Speaker 2 (01:27:10):
I don't think we're behind in movies.
No, I am well.
We went and saw Love andThunder.

Speaker 3 (01:27:15):
That's the last one I saw.

Speaker 2 (01:27:17):
I didn't watch one that came out.

Speaker 3 (01:27:18):
I don't know.
I didn't watch I man three.
I didn't watch the Marvel's Ididn't watch.
There's been quite a few.

Speaker 2 (01:27:25):
I don't think there's been quite a few, I think.
I'm in three Marvel's, but Idon't think you watch the
Marvel's right.
No, I won't only watch a manthree.

Speaker 1 (01:27:34):
How the fuck am I the only one that's seen the
Marvel's?
Because we heard your review ofit.
We're like, okay, I have thatpower, the power of influence,
because I want to say we'repretty up to date on Marvel,
though I think I Haven't watched.

Speaker 2 (01:27:49):
I am, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:27:50):
I haven't watched a lot of the TV shows.

Speaker 2 (01:27:53):
But movie-wise I think we're besides Ant-Man and
the Marvel's.
I think those are the only twoyou've missed, because I don't
think there's been any others atleast.
I mean, I can't remember themif there are, which is bad if I
can't.

Speaker 3 (01:28:04):
I did watch Black Panther work on forever.
Did that come out before afterLove and Thunder?

Speaker 1 (01:28:09):
before.
I think before before.

Speaker 3 (01:28:11):
Okay, never mind.

Speaker 2 (01:28:12):
Yeah, because I think it went Love, and Thunder,
ant-man, marvel's, and then wehaven't had anything, anything
since the Marvel.

Speaker 1 (01:28:19):
I don't, we don't even I don't think there's a
movie this year.

Speaker 3 (01:28:21):
Oh, Guardians 3 ah, that came out.
That was good.
I will admit that one wasreally good.

Speaker 2 (01:28:27):
Okay, so, and but is guardian guardians?
See, is the last one, I thinkthat's came out.
No, marvel's, marvel's, really.

Speaker 3 (01:28:36):
Oh yeah, Marvel's just came out, not even longer.

Speaker 2 (01:28:38):
Oh well, Marvel's is I.
On Disney Plus.

Speaker 1 (01:28:42):
Yeah, well, that tells you how long Dude in fact.

Speaker 3 (01:28:47):
I'm also.
I'm almost sad that Daredevilborn again is Coming out in a
way that I just don't want themto tarnish.
How good that was on Netflix.
You know it's an 18 episodeseries too, so if it's just 18
episodes of garbage I'm gonna bereally upset.

(01:29:08):
We'll see, though.
We'll see.
Like I said, I'm more excitedfor other things, like the last
airbender coming out in a coupleweeks.
It's gonna be fucking great.
I can already tell like it.
Just Maybe I'm overhyped, butlike it looks really good.
All the promotional materialthey've released for it looks
good.
I'm doing to like I'm.

Speaker 2 (01:29:29):
I'm excited for non-marvel things you know
what's gonna replace Marvel big,big box office.
Dc no, godzilla, he's coming inwith.
Godzilla and Kong.
They're building up a body copfilm Skarking.
I read they said there was somearticle that came out that said
Godzilla X Kong.

(01:29:50):
They took inspiration,inspiration from lethal weapon
for the relationship betweenKong and God.
What is King Kong?
Rigs and Fucking what.

Speaker 1 (01:30:13):
So Kong is just straight up like a suicidal
fucking.
Unhinged, you know, narcoticsdealer or narcotics a recovering
cop.

Speaker 3 (01:30:23):
What's I want?

Speaker 1 (01:30:24):
the like the weapons the hell.
This show series, though, man.

Speaker 3 (01:30:27):
The first one's good, even second one's good and I
love all four.

Speaker 1 (01:30:30):
I thought all four were so much fun.

Speaker 3 (01:30:32):
I like all those old classic cop movies were just
over the top.
Yeah, it's like dieharddiehard's great, leave the
weapons great.

Speaker 1 (01:30:40):
I just like writing.
It's just fun.

Speaker 3 (01:30:43):
Yeah, like I like.
I like it Just 80s action ingeneral, probably, but yeah, so
I'm, I'm more, I'm more excitedabout things that are happening
outside of my little, thingsthat are happening with.

Speaker 1 (01:31:03):
That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard of my life
, but I can't wait.
I'm ready for I that's honestlygot somehow got me more excited
.
I'm so happy.
What is?

Speaker 2 (01:31:10):
that even me the monster versus taken off like
just as well it's.
It is hilarious.
And then I find I'm reallyplugged into this so I can nerd
out about it a little bit.
But like the whole monsterversus thing, people were pissed
that Godzilla is like like thebad guy no, that he's being
silly Because they saw minus onecome out and they're like look

(01:31:33):
how good Godzilla's and look howserious it is.
And then now they have Godzillawhere you know it's like it's
getting wild, like King Kong hasa metal fist.

Speaker 3 (01:31:39):
It is slowly turning into the Fast and Furious
franchise for sure thing is islike of the monster films.

Speaker 2 (01:31:46):
If you look at, if you look at Godzilla 80% of his
movies are that silly.
Yeah, that's the point of it,japan had, like they had a whole
era where Godzilla was justkind of Fun, you know, monster.

Speaker 3 (01:31:58):
There was one where he had a kid and he was training
.
Yeah how to be a monster.
Manila was the baby Godzilla'sname, and I remember Godzilla
was trying to teach him how tobreathe fire and he couldn't
learn, so Godzilla stepped onhis tail and then the babies are
breathing fire.

Speaker 2 (01:32:14):
Yeah, so I saw people pissed about that and it's like
come on.
And then the other one is Godskills.
Godzilla is skinny and theydon't like it.
They don't like that.
He's skinny and pink.

Speaker 3 (01:32:25):
It's like yeah, fuck it, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:32:30):
It's like, yeah, he's working out.

Speaker 3 (01:32:31):
I think that there's a time and place for each type
of movie.
You're allowed to just have amovie.
I just have a fun time.
You know it's not no sense.
And then you're also allowed toappreciate the high quality,
high writing, great acting.
But those things are.
You know you don't have to likeone and hate the other like

(01:32:53):
just go to the movie and have agood time, and sometimes you get
more bang for your buck if yougo to a movie and you just, you
know, watch big-ass monstersfight each other.

Speaker 2 (01:33:02):
Well, the thing is is like I went and saw Argyle
recently.
I had no preconception.
I had like, no, I probably sawone trailer before I went and
saw the movie.
I loved it.
Yeah, it's stupid, but it's sostupid, it's good and it's like
within the first ten minutes andyour cattle grinds a truck down

(01:33:23):
a staircase on the guard.
Okay, it's like that's great,that's some great.

Speaker 3 (01:33:32):
I'm down for anything Henry Cavill's doing.
Yeah, like that new movie thatthe trailer we just watched.
So that was the Ungentlywarfare or something like that.
That looks good, that looks fun.

Speaker 1 (01:33:44):
You know, I totally a hundred percent agree with that
sentiment you just shared, butfor some reason I have this
irrational distaste for fuckingFast and furious.
I don't know what it is, butit's like that because that's
what those movies are and theyare produced to the oblivion and
they look visually awesome.
I can't fucking stand them.

Speaker 3 (01:34:05):
I think it's because they they didn't start out that
way.
They found a niche and thenthey went into it hard.

Speaker 2 (01:34:11):
Well, I think it's, it's kind of it's a genre that
is very, I Don't know, like.
When I go to Godzilla I want tosee giant monsters hit each
other right and you look at fastand furious and it's like there
are car movie, but they'reabout see family the spy, you
know superhero bat, and it'slike.

Speaker 3 (01:34:32):
I saw one clip where, like Ludacris's character was
fighting these like Navy sealsand they're like okay.

Speaker 2 (01:34:40):
When did that happen?

Speaker 3 (01:34:41):
like when a house Ludacris, supposed to be
freaking fighting these likelike swan and then, like Han,
came back to life somehow and hegets into a like all of a
sudden, even though in the movie, even though the movie he was
introduced in Tokyo drift.
He never once got into a fistfight.

(01:35:04):
All of a sudden he's an actionhero, like with the Jason
Statham's character.
They get in this epic fight andlook, it's just weird in that
sense, you know, I think, like Ithink, it's a mix of genres,
that aren't?

Speaker 2 (01:35:18):
it appeals to some people, but not to all.
Like where is Godzill vs Kong?
It's not a mix of genres.
It's a giant monster fightingmovie and it's not.
It's not like they're alsotrying to show me a racing movie
and A movie about family.
I mean, sometimes they try andshow about family, but they've
learned their lesson of like.
Let's shorten that bit.

Speaker 3 (01:35:38):
Yeah, I Don't know.
I do agree with you.
I also feel like for me it wasbecause it has like a Identity
crisis.
Yeah fast and furious those.
Yeah, and whereas Godzill Kongit is what they know, what
they're they are they're leaninginto it.
My favorite fast and furiousfilm was actually Tokyo drift,

(01:36:01):
tokyo, just good.
I really like that one.
And the reason I like that oneis because it's just an honest
story about racing.
It's last samurai, yeah, the,the white guy, get sent to do it
it is I'm gonna need to getwalked through that one.

Speaker 2 (01:36:18):
It's the same story as Avatar last moheacon Dancers
with wolves last samurai I whiteguy gets sent to some foreign
land, it becomes the hero byadopting their culture.

Speaker 3 (01:36:36):
Yeah, by adopting their culture.
It's the last samurai of racing.

Speaker 2 (01:36:44):
But it's true, I like it cuz it's last samurai.
No, that's not why I like it, Iwas just saying that's how good
is last samurai though I loveReal great, so good.

Speaker 3 (01:36:54):
No, I like um, I like fast and furious, I like Tokyo
drift, I like, for one, I likedit because it I really just
don't like Vin Diesel that muchand Vin.
Diesel isn't in that one, andso I really like that and I like
that.
It's a movie about racing.
Sure, there's still theelements of you know the, the

(01:37:17):
yakuza, like, trying to, youknow, kill whatever you know,
but I like that at its core.

Speaker 2 (01:37:23):
It's about racing and the movie ends with an epic,
like Street race between him andthe bad guy you know like, and
it's like the only other, likefor me, my two favorite fast,
too fast to furious in Tokyodrift, because too fast to
furious is that's pretty muchall Paul Walker right.

Speaker 3 (01:37:39):
Yeah, and Tyrese.

Speaker 2 (01:37:41):
Tyrese yeah, and I like that one.
I like cuz that's still racing.
I mean there's like you know,there's drama and stuff, but I'm
like, I'm like there's dramaand stuff, but there's drama and
stuff, but there's drama andstuff, but there's drama and
stuff.
But there's drama and stuff butthere's drama and stuff.

(01:38:01):
But there's drama and stuffgone in 60 seconds.

Speaker 3 (01:38:08):
Great movie?

Speaker 2 (01:38:09):
Well, not in the fast and furious Universal.
I was like, did we talk aboutthis?

Speaker 3 (01:38:14):
It's got our savior, nicholas Cage, though.
Okay, but it wasn't until, like, people caught on to it, until
like now he's making video games, though now he's all.
I mean this dude, this guypumps out like 10 movies a year,
it feels like, and they're allB level and he's just so I need
is happy to be him.
You know, can't judge.

Speaker 1 (01:38:33):
Well, we've been live for almost two hours, gentlemen
.

Speaker 3 (01:38:35):
Oh man.

Speaker 1 (01:38:37):
Don't work.

Speaker 2 (01:38:37):
Your people find us they can find us on YouTube,
instagram, spotify, any majorpodcast listening platform you
listen to as well as please comecheck out our streams on.
Tuesday I didn't beg this time,but I was just saying please
please beg is almost the samething.
Please come check, no um followyour knees.

Speaker 1 (01:38:59):
Turned on for a while .
That weirdly.

Speaker 3 (01:39:02):
I love, I love when you make that noise, though,
please come.

Speaker 2 (01:39:06):
Anyways, we stream every Tuesday at 7 pm Pacific
time on YouTube where you cancome join chat with us, as you
can look, if I believe you know,you can look at the chat replay
if you watch it after we stream.
Our chat is pretty active now,so yeah, but yeah, come, come,
join us, come hang out.

(01:39:26):
We love to just talk aboutstuff and if you guys have any
questions, or good topics orgood topics.
Hit us up, Let us know you know, we have a PO box.
I.

Speaker 3 (01:39:38):
Was like.
You know you can stop.
Don't feel like you need tokeep going.

Speaker 2 (01:39:41):
I'm gonna just keep going on in that.

Speaker 3 (01:39:44):
I will go until it gets cut off.
So he's filibuster.

Speaker 1 (01:39:51):
Tonight we're gonna read the holy Bible.

Speaker 2 (01:39:55):
And this is how avatar is related to last
samurai.
So if we look at the maincharacter, jake's solely, if you
take his name.

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