April 11, 2025 • 47 mins
When Chad Underwood and his wife decided to start a family, they never expected infertility to be part of their story — let alone his diagnosis.
After being diagnosed with azospermia (a rare male infertility condition), Chad was left navigating a world that doesn’t talk enough about male infertility — let alone how isolating it can feel.
Add in a global pandemic, the temporary closure of his yoga studio, and a whole lot of grief he wasn’t ready to process… and you’ve got one hell of a journey.
In this episode, Chad gets real about what infertility looks like from the male perspective — the shame, the loss of identity, and the wild experience of choosing a sperm donor.
Chad, your honesty is your superpower! Your story is proof that biology isn’t what makes you a dad. Showing up with your whole heart is.
This one’s for anyone who’s ever had to take a different path to their dream — and found something even more beautiful on the other side.
Watch now and share it with someone who needs to hear this.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
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Chad Underwood, welcome to theKeri Croft Show.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Thank you, happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
I am just.
I am honored that you're here.
Well thank you, not just becauseit's you and I feel like the
universe has been conspiring forus to sit together for a couple
years now, like I told you.
But then I put out this youknow, we're doing this
infertility series and I wasgetting my nails done and it hit
me like a ton of bricks whereI'm like, okay, I've been so
focused on being inclusive whenI was having that mental
(01:44):
conversation and having theconversation with Kate and
internally it's like, okay,same-sex couples check.
Okay, women who have are 20years away check.
And it was women, women, women.
And all of a sudden I'm likewhat about the man?
So I put that out.
You write back rather quickly.
Hey, my wife lobbed this to me.
I want to come in and I want totalk, yeah, so I just feel like
this is such an importantconversation and it's it's rare
(02:07):
that we sit with a man who iswilling to open up about male
factor infertility.
So thank you for yourvulnerability and for being here
.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Yeah, you're very welcome.
I think it's something thatneeds to be talked about from
every angle, and I'm just happyto be here, I'm happy to share
my story.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
So let's start with when you and Carrie, your wife,
decided you want to have kids.
Walk us down the road of whenit was like, okay, the signs are
pointing towards my sperm.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Yeah, I mean well, we .
So we got married in June of2018.
And then we were, you know andthis isn't necessarily ancillary
, but we were both kind of readyto start having kids.
I was 33, I think at this timeand we were like, hey, let's
start having kids.
And so we decided to starttrying around Christmas time of
(02:55):
that year.
So we'd been married for sixmonths.
We were going to start tryingto get pregnant.
There was six months where wewere just looking at the
calendar and knowing when wewere supposed to be having sex
and when things were supposed tobe working out and they just
weren't working out.
And it was a pretty quick timeframe.
I feel like a lot of couplesit's years or maybe even a
(03:16):
decade that could pass when theyfinally start to go down the
infertility process.
But we were really eager tohave children.
That, like we I remember we wentto Hawaii and Carrie was like,
if we don't get pregnant whenwe're in Hawaii, like when we
come home, I'm going to set upan appointment with an
infertility specialist.
And so a month later we set upan appointment with Dr Jane up
(03:38):
in Westerville and I think wethat started like that summer
and we started going through allsorts of like tests and,
initially, the.
I think we that started likethat summer and we started going
through all sorts of like testsand initially, the very first
test, um, like Carrie cycledidn't have, like she didn't
have the.
It looked like she might be theissue with her for whatever
(03:58):
reason.
That cycle she didn't have aton of eggs that she was
producing.
But then, like, after two moremonths, the doctor was like no,
no, no, no, no, like you're fine, we need to start looking at
Chad.
Um, so then over the next coupleof months, like throughout the
fall of 2019, um, I was doinglike I probably did like seven
(04:19):
or eight like sperm checks andeventually it got to the point
where they just they they eithercame back as like trace amounts
of sperm or no sperm at all.
Um, and then that February waswhen I had like the final
operation.
Like we went into, so I went togo see a urologist and go see a
specialist, but then so, likeFebruary 2020 was when, um, when
(04:44):
I had the operation and so theydid like a testicular biopsy
and then they identified that Ihad no sperm at all.
So I was diagnosed with what'scalled azuspermia, and it just
means I was born without thecapability to process sperm or
(05:05):
create sperm.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Because I was going to say sometimes you can go in
and that's a different diagnosis, because you have a couple in
there they can take out.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Yes, that was what they were trying to do.
He was trying to go in to pullout some sperm, if there were
any available, and they ran thetests on it and there were none,
and that was tough.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
I was going to say can you take us back to when you
heard that, when you're like,wait, there's nothing, there's
not one in there.
How did that impact you andwhat did you think?
How did you process?
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Well, I guess the immediacy of when I found out I
was still under the influence ofthe anesthesia, so it was kind
of like I was in a really bigfog so I didn't really like.
I was like coming up from beingunder in the surgery and so
Carrie was there with me and Iremember her just kind of like
breaking down and crying, but Istill don't think I was like
(05:58):
fully like alert, like I washaving the conversation with
them, but I was in a fog andthen, like I slept for another
couple of hours and then we gothome and then we actually like
had the conversation and thatwas when, like it really hit me
like okay, like in my mind andthis isn't how I feel in any way
, shape or form, in my mind thatwas like I'm not going to be a
(06:19):
father and I always wanted to bea dad.
I like, and I always wanted tobe a dad.
I love my kids to death.
Being a dad is such a big partof my life now, which I'm sure
we'll get to, but in that momentit felt like the dream of us
(06:41):
being parents was over.
The one thing that I doremember very vividly that the
urologist said, and it wassomething that I thought was so
important for me to process andI don't think I processed it
fully for like a long time.
A lot of the concern when westarted this was like were there
factors that I could have?
You know, a lot of the factorswere like do you spend excessive
time in heat?
(07:01):
Okay, well, I teach hot yoga.
I'm in that hot room, you know,eight 10 hours a week, so I
spend a lot of time in a hundreddegree room.
Have you ever spent a lot oftime with, like like electronics
on your lap?
Well, like when I was incollege, I remember sitting with
my laptop like on my lap allthe time, right, so like that
was another factor.
(07:21):
And then the third one was likedo you smoke marijuana?
And there was a period of mytime where I was smoking a lot
of marijuana.
So I'm like these three strikesare against me, but what?
What he said was like you wereone in 10,000.
Like there's nothing you couldhave done that could have
changed this outcome for you.
Like this is this is you werediagnosed with this.
(07:42):
Like this was here from themoment you were born.
For you, like this is this isyou were diagnosed with this.
Like this was here from themoment you were born and that
did help me cope.
To know that, like, even ifthere were all these external
factors that maybe, like, wouldhave prevented me from having
sperm and having my own geneticchildren, like the end result
could never have been changed,because that's just who I am and
that's part of my identity.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
So you get hit with this diagnosis which I can
imagine on so many fronts was alot to probably.
You probably are stillprocessing.
I mean that's you know that'sit's, it's, that's a big big
thing.
Um, especially as we discussedand you discussed your intake
form just this whole idea ofmasculinity in our culture and
the way that conceiving between,like when guys are having a
(08:25):
beer and they're talking andit's like you know, oh, you got
the strong swimmers and likepenis size, I mean name it like
it's a whole bro culture whereit's like you know, you're not
comfortably and like hey, by theway, I don't make any spirit,
like that had to be like a wholething.
But let's go into when you andCarrie realize this door is
closed for you guys to naturallyconceive.
(08:46):
So now we have other doors thatwe need to look at right, we
have the adoption door, we havethe donor door, or we have the
childless by choice door.
Yeah, and how did thatconversation come about and who
was the antagonist and how didthat all go.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Well, I mean, I'll tell you, we probably went
through, we probably looked atall the doors, Um, and you know,
even looking back now, it waslike funny.
I mean I think some of thejokes that we made were like
coping mechanisms, but Iremember at one point we were at
a friend's house Um, they havecondos in like the park's edge
apartments downtown and we wentto this party at the park's edge
and we're in like I remember Ican't remember who said the joke
(09:24):
, or whatever but it was like,well, I mean like this could
just, like we could just livehere forever, Like we could just
live in this building and like,if we're not going to have kids
, like let's, let's move, let'slive the cosmopolitan Columbus
life and live in the high rise,and that's going to be what we
do.
And that was like one thingthat we talked about.
But I think, ultimately, whatit came down to is like I still
remember when Carrie and I wereon our second date, and from the
(09:45):
time of our second date we knewlike we were meant to be
together and like one of theearliest conversations that we
had was that we both wanted tobe parents, and like we wanted
to have a family and I think anytime we like started to talk
about being the cool aunt anduncle because we had some nieces
and nephews, or like let's livethe high rise life and just not
worry about it.
Like you know, let's move outof our suburban home and back
(10:08):
into the city.
That wasn't going to give usthe life that we wanted and like
the fulfillment.
And so then we started to talkabout other avenues Once we got
to the point where I wasdiagnosed with the azuspermia
and we went to like we kepttalking with Dr Jane and, like
figuring out how we were goingto do this.
It was really a function of likehow is this going to look?
(10:32):
And there is the donor route,and I remember there was a
conversation and Carrie remindedme of this a couple days ago
that, like she was adamant for aperiod of time that, like if I
had to do a sperm domer, thatshe was going to do an egg donor
and that that even if shecarried the baby, like she
wanted it to be an egg donorbecause she felt so guilty about
(10:57):
me not being able to have mygenetic children that she was
willing to forego the childrenbeing her genetic children.
And I was like you're crazy,Absolutely not.
Like we're not, like that's notan option, that's not on the
table.
But we had those conversations.
I was like no, like ourchildren should at least half be
genetically ours.
(11:17):
Like that, like I wanted thatso much for her.
And so then we started goingdown the sperm donor route and
looking into it.
And that was an experience inand of itself which, like on
some levels, looking back on,was like kind of interesting,
Like it's fascinating to thinkabout, but in the moment, like
(11:39):
shopping for sperm donors, waslike so incredibly heartbreaking
.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Well, I mean, you know, you think about just
Tinder or Hinge for dating.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Which is how Karen and I met.
We met on Tinder.
But then you take it like threesteps further.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
You're like never thought I would be looking for
someone who looks similar to me,that has the same height, the
same you know to carry my child.
I mean, it's definitely notsomething that anybody would
ever think they would beexperiencing, but such is life.
Yeah, I mean right.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
I mean there's certain things that you can
control or certain things thatyou can't control and, like, I
can't control the fact that Ican't produce sperm, but we can
control how we react to thecircumstances that we were under
.
But we can control how we reactto the circumstances that we
were under and I think that, inthe grand scheme of things, as
heartbreaking as all of it was,we still knew what the end goal
was and we were both willing towork together to get to this
(12:34):
point where we have our you know, our two children.
But like the sperm donor piecewas, so was just like it was
really it was tough for both ofus, but it's really weird, like
feeling like you're shopping onAmazon for yourself, like that's
, I mean it's like and the spermbank stuff, like for anybody
out there who hasn't like beenthrough this it's, I mean it's
wild because there's like 20 orso throughout the country and Dr
(12:55):
Jane presents you with thislist of like and his first
recommendation is, just so youknow, like, don't go with a
sperm bank from like Ohio.
And at first you're like okay,like cool, like whatever he's
like no, no, no.
Like you don't understand, likeyou don't want your kid being
at like the high school prom andtheir date looks a lot like
(13:16):
your kid because it's actuallythe same sperm donor.
So he's like pick a randomsperm bank from like wherever.
So I think ours is likeWashington or California or
something like that.
And so you start shopping, youknow, you start filtering out.
Like you know somebody who'sbetween five, 11 and six, one,
brown hair, german and Scottishdescent.
(13:36):
Like you can go as far down aslike uh, education level, so
like I have a, I have a lawdegree, so it's like you can say
post postgraduate degrees, likethere's so many different
little factors that you can do.
And then it just pumps out likeseven people and all you see
are there like like childhoodphotos and this kid I'll never
forget it Like when I was a kidI was a huge Michael Jordan fan,
(13:59):
as like I'm pretty sureeverybody around my age was, and
this kid kid looked, thisfour-year-old looked exactly
like me and he was wearing aChicago Bulls jersey.
And so then we open up the, weopen up the like the, the form,
and you you can see like hobbiesor whatever he's into, and he
(14:19):
was like gave up a life of likelaw, he was a lawyer, gave up a
life of law and like to becomean artist.
So he has like this creativeside and then in his spare time,
like loved practicing yoga andit was like that's the guy, like
wherever he is, like that's,that's perfect, like it's the
(14:40):
it's as close to me as we'regoing to get.
And when you look at Brady, Imean he looks a lot like me,
even though he's not geneticallymy child.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Can you think back like when was your, I think,
lowest, lowest point with all ofthis?
Speaker 2 (14:57):
mentally, and this is less.
I mean, this is still like aninfertility conversation, but
it's a little bit like ancillaryworld stuff, I mean.
So my operation for thetesticular biopsy was February
28th of 2020.
And then you know, owning abusiness that's primarily
dependent on people coming intoyour doors and practicing in the
(15:17):
heat with the hot yoga studio,march 14th or 15th we had to
shut the studio down and wedidn't know when we'd reopen.
So, within the span of twoweeks, I get you know this news
that I think I'm never going tobecome a father.
And then, all of a sudden, Ithink, like, like, are we going
to be able to pay our rent?
Like, are we going to have tofile bankruptcy?
Like, what's like I it seems sosilly now to think about, but
(15:40):
in that moment, like it was trueterror and fear, like I had no
idea what was about to happen,and so that, like spring summer
was like just mentally, just nota good place.
I was throwing myself intoteaching, like the online
streaming yoga classes, just asmany as I could possibly do.
(16:00):
I was throwing myself into,like working on the business and
trying to come up with likeplans for what would happen if
we wouldn't reopen, like I justjust remember trying to deflect
and not thinking about anythinghaving to do with home because I
was so devastated in what wasgoing on.
(16:21):
I think my tendency is when,rather than process grief
immediately, I tend to throwmyself into something else and
deflect and then eventually ithits you really hard.
And that summer I I just Iremember there was a day where I
just remember a day where wewere sitting at home and
probably like drinking wine onthe couch and it was like right
(16:44):
about when we did the spermdonor thing and it was just not
a good situation.
I remember breaking down, Iwasn't sleeping, I was waking up
in the middle of the night andwouldn't be able to go back to
sleep for like three hours at atime.
Just all of the fear andanxiety and stress that I was
under was catching up to me.
(17:05):
And then it became a functionof like okay, we really need to
talk about this and startprocessing it and start moving
through it.
But it didn't happenimmediately.
It was probably another three tofour months until I started
going to see a therapist andstarting to work through, kind
of like, how it was reallyimpacting me rather than
deflecting it.
And that was really hard onCarrie too, because I think that
(17:26):
it's so hard when you're in itwith someone, it's hard to talk
to that someone and work throughthe problem together without
talking to somebody else first.
And I was so scared to talk toanybody about what I was going
through, let alone somebody whowas close to me, like a friend
or a confidant, that the onlyway that I was able to work
(17:48):
through the trauma that I hadgone through was by talking to
this outside therapist that Ihad never met me before in my
life and that I found that to bea really productive way to work
through the struggles that Iwas having.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Aside from Carrie and this therapist, who did you
lean on in your support system?
Anyone?
Did you share this with anyone?
So?
Speaker 2 (18:13):
I did.
Luckily, I have an amazing teamat Modo and they were kind of
they were knowing what I wasgoing through because I had to.
Before I had had my bigoperation in February, I had had
to stop teaching in the heatbecause they thought that maybe,
like hey, if I remove myselffrom the heat for a couple of
months, then maybe that wouldenable my sperm to get going.
(18:35):
It turns out that wasn't thecase, um, but so I had, like all
my team members and and theteachers and even some students
at moto were reaching out, likehey, you're not on the schedule,
like what's going on?
Is everything okay?
So I did have to kind of relyon some people there, like
especially our studio manager,leanne, and some of our like big
teachers, and I remember Italked about it in a staff
meeting.
So the Modo community reallyhelped me to process and that
(19:02):
community in general is likewe're a pretty emotional
community.
We're.
We're all about being togetherand kind of helping push through
like tough times for everybody,um, and also using yoga as like
a stress coping mechanism and aand a, you know, a way to work
through past traumas andself-healing.
You know the moto community, Iwould say, especially our studio
manager Leanne, like she was aconfidant, um, but as far as
(19:24):
like anybody else, not really.
It was kind of tough for mebecause I think in some ways,
like our parents' tendencies areingrained in us and so I know
that my mom had me when she was40 and my mom had eight
miscarriages, and so I rememberthis is even well before like
(19:45):
the infertility stuff started.
I remember my mom telling methat well, like, we just didn't
talk about it, like and this isback in the seventies and
eighties Like I just nevertalked to anybody about this.
I'm like, mom, you went througheight miscarriages and never
talked to anybody about this.
And so I think when I was going, starting to go through this
process, I like I was like, well, I have to internalize it as
(20:07):
well.
Because in my mind I wasthinking, well, that's like,
that's what my mom did, likethat was like my experience with
infertility.
But once I started, you know,carrie and I started making that
commitment to try to workthrough this stuff, both
together and with our owntherapists, because we had our
own individual therapists andthen we had a couple therapy
(20:27):
sessions together.
Once that happened, we startedgetting more comfortable talking
with people about this, andthen you started realizing just
how many other people were goingthrough what you are, um, and I
do.
I now that this kickstart kindof jogs some of my memory too
like we did have a couple, um,one of our dearest friends.
(20:50):
They were kind of like ourconfidants because they were the
ones that now this is clickingback in my mind they were the
ones that recommended us to DrJane.
So there was one couple friendof ours that had gone through
infertility and they had used DrJane to have their two children
, and so that kind of like ledus to go to him in the in the
first place.
(21:10):
And then it was like once westarted, once people started
finding out and were aware thatwe had our journey, then we
became those confidants forother people that were on their
journeys, and so it is this kindof like beautiful, like
community in and of itself ofpeople that have gone through
this together that we can all,once you start to have the
(21:32):
conversations, you realize justhow many other couples are being
impacted by this.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
It's the I think it's the beauty of transparency with
anything.
When you're fully open andtransparent about something, it
is such an attractor to everyone.
And it's amazing the thingsthat will come.
Just this show alone, like Ican't wait's amazing.
The things that will come, justjust the show alone, like I
can't wait to see the males thatkind of come around.
I hope so.
Oh, absolutely, there's nodoubt.
(21:56):
Yeah, and it was.
I mean, what was that like,though, with your bros?
Like having be, like, you know,hanging out watching golf?
Like hey, dude, how do peoplesupport you today?
Like hey dude, like how?
Speaker 2 (22:07):
how did that go?
There's a mental exercise oflike do I need to correct this
person or do I not need tocorrect this person.
Like if it's somebody who Ijust met, I might never see them
again.
Like I'm not going to spend thetime of like trying to correct
that person because I don't knowif I'm ever going to see them
again.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
They don't necessarily need to know, but if
you're talking about, ifsomebody, somebody asks like,
says something about in general,just about like whatever, like
I remember.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
So one one experience was and I play a lot of golf
and I I remember, uh, whencarrie was pregnant the first
time we were walking down thefairways and I've heard this
hundreds and hundreds of timesfrom people where it's like, oh
yeah, carrie's pregnant,congrats on the sex, like okay,
cool, okay, cool, Like got itOkay.
I remember, like it was a goodbuddy of mine, he said that and
(22:55):
I had to go through thisexercise.
I'm like this is somebody thatI know, Not a lot of time with,
but somebody that I seeregularly.
This is somebody that's goingto, that knows my wife, knows,
will know my family, Like I needto make.
Take this to be the moment andbe like hey, just like.
So you know, that's actuallynot how this worked.
I can't have my own childrenand sometimes you see the
(23:17):
reaction and they're like liketheir jaws drop.
But I think that's important forpeople to realize that, even
just like something seeminglyinnocent, as like hey, that's so
great, Congrats on the sex,which I think I don't really
love that comment anyways, butlike that's what people do and
that's what people say.
That can be incredibly hurtfulfor people to hear or whatever
(23:40):
it might be, like hey, yeah,like great.
Like let's do our masculinecomments about whatever it is,
and it's like, even though Imight be sitting here as
somebody who likes to golf andlikes to go out and drink beers,
like those comments can beincredibly hurtful to me.
Or even something as simple asand and you know, I see this
(24:01):
happen both with men andespecially like a lot of older
ladies who meet my child andthey're like, oh my God, he
looks just like you and it'slike, well, yeah, he does.
But that isn't that commentalone, even though that's the
first thing that somebody saysis like a twist of the knife in
my belly every time I hear that.
And so then I go through themental exercise again like do I
(24:24):
correct this person?
Do I not correct this person?
Like and part of that is alsomy own preservation of my own
mental state because, like somepeople like I just don't want to
correct them, because I don'twant to then have to explain it
and go through the story andlike it becomes like reliving
these like little nightmares allthe time.
(24:45):
But then some people like needto know, because they're going
to be in my life for extendedperiods of time.
So every single time there's aconversation that could
potentially come about of it, itis like rehashing those
nightmares.
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Text me at 614-314-1355.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
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Did you guys ever consideradoption, or how did that
(26:40):
conversation go?
Speaker 2 (26:51):
We definitely talked about it.
We were also and I'll be thefirst to say, like we were
incredibly fortunate in thatCarrie's job covered IVF.
So for us, when it startedbeing a function of like even a
financial decision which is likeincredibly fucked up that we
even have to think about it thatway but like when we started
looking at like the financialsof doing adoption versus the
financials for us individuallyof doing IVF number one IVF at
least gave Carrie theopportunity to carry her own
(27:12):
child and all that sort of stuff.
But then also like it wascovered by insurance.
So and like again, I'll be thefirst to say like we are
incredibly thankful to DSW ordesigner brands that like they
even offered that for theiremployees.
But that's kind of like IVF wasalways more preferable.
Adoption was probably on thetable, but we were like that was
(27:34):
like the next step.
It was like if IVF doesn't work, then we'll go down that road.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
I guess what would you say to people out there who
are supporting someone who'sgoing through something like
this, knowing that it is supersensitive, knowing that a very
benign comment can really twista night that you wouldn't even
intend, how can someone bestsupport someone going through
this type of journey?
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Yeah, I mean I think it is a tough question because I
don't fault people for just youknow, like the offhanded
comment, like oh my God, helooks so like you, like that is
a very natural thing to want tosay, and I I don't, even, cause
I I'm sure that before I wentthrough this I said that to my
friends' kids or you know, we'rearound people that said that
(28:21):
and it never even registered inmy mind.
But I think it's important forreframing just even if you don't
know if a person's goingthrough it, reframing my own
mindset and like I'm never goingto say those things again, Like
those aren't comments that I'mgoing to make to people, and if
people can be aware of just howmany individuals are going
through these journeys, even ifit's an offhanded comment or
(28:44):
something that you've said forgenerations, like it might be
something that needs to changeand maybe we reframe how we have
those conversations and that'snot easy to do.
I will say that, like if you're, if you're aware that somebody
that in your life is goingthrough this journey, the
biggest thing that I can say isjust be supportive.
I mean, there are so many askquestions because the more we
(29:09):
can talk about it, the more wecan cope and process it and the
more we feel like people areunderstanding and respectful of
what it is that we're goingthrough.
Like the end goal is to havethis beautiful thing, this
beautiful child, and that's whatwe ultimately wanted, and we
wanted people and to haveconversations with people that
wanted to support us in thatgoal.
(29:29):
If people don't want to talkabout it, that's okay too, but I
think it's just important tosupport folks that you know
they're going through thisjourney, because you know every
person's going to process it andgo through it in their own way.
But even if it's just afunction of like I'm just going
to come over and hang out withyou for a night, we don't have
to talk about anything.
We can watch the football gameor we can go for a walk and we
(29:53):
can talk about whatever.
Or for me, it was like let mefind people that I know that I
can go spend nine holes of golfwith or go take a yoga class
with, and just people that Ifelt good being around, that
were helping me get through it.
Even if it wasn't a function oflike we're actually going to
sit down and talk about it,because sometimes that's not
what I wanted to do.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
What's the plan for transparency with the kids?
Speaker 2 (30:13):
We're already talking about it.
One of the things that we so,whenever you're going through
this and, like Dr Jane, part ofthe process with him is you have
to have at least oneconversation before you go
through this journey.
You have to have a conversationwith the therapist, and one of
(30:35):
the things that the therapistthat we met with recommended not
like steadfast, you have to dothis but was that start talking
to your children about this asearly as possible, like from the
moment that they can talk,start talking to them.
And she, I remember she threwus like some books that like
talked about being a donor baby.
You know all that sort of stuffand we didn't buy those.
But like from early on, as soonas Brady, our first kid, um,
(30:55):
started talking, we startedhaving the conversation with him
.
That you know, hey, there'sfour people.
You know most people have amommy and daddy that helped make
their kids.
And for you there were fourpeople that were involved.
There was mommy mommy broughther belly.
Daddy, daddy brought his heart,doctor, doctor brought his mind
.
And the donor the donor broughtthe missing piece.
(31:17):
And if you sit down with Bradyand you say Brady, hey, how many
people helped make you?
And he'll say four and he'llsay mommy, daddy, doctor, donor,
and it is like the cutest waythat he says it no-transcript,
(31:52):
but for us we decided to leaveit open.
So when he turns 18, that'sgoing to be an opportunity where
he can reach out to his donorif he wants.
He has to be the one toinitiate that, and then that'll
probably make me go through awhole nother set of emotions and
trauma and processing at thatpoint, if he chooses to do that,
but that's okay.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
so yeah, those conversations are already
happening as he grows and yourlove for him grows as it does,
how does that change theinternal wrestling match that
you have inside of, like, oh I'mnot the biological father, but
I love this child so much does?
Do you feel like that wrestlingmatch you're getting, it's
getting easier?
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Well, in my mind I'm thinking of the fact that our
son is not sleeping through thenight right now and screaming in
the middle of the night.
So I'm like, yeah, you're notmy child, um, but you know,
that's my first reaction.
Um, but no, I mean I thinkthere's always an internal
wrestling match that's going on.
(32:53):
One thing that I've come tounderstand is that, like,
parenthood can mean a lot ofthings.
There are a lot of geneticparents out there that aren't
involved in their children'slives at all and if you spend
any significant amount of timewith myself and my kids, like
those kids, like I, I there's,there's no part of me that
(33:16):
doesn't feel like their father.
And just because they might notgenetically be mine, like, I
love those two and sometimes thethree-year-old is, is a, is a,
is a.
He's difficult to lovesometimes, but, like you know, I
mean I look at those two andlike we are a family and I will
do anything for the rest of mylife to protect those two and to
(33:38):
care for them and to providefor them.
And just because I went throughthis journey I think in some
ways it probably with Carrie andI the fact that we went through
this journey together makes itmean that much more to be
parents and to have thesespecial moments with our kids.
It's more when the like thetwist of the knife moments
happen.
I don't think of it like 98percent of the time, but those
(33:59):
two percent of the time that youdo.
Yeah, it is hard, but I justhave to remind myself like just
because they might notgenetically be mine doesn't mean
that they're not my children.
And yeah, that's kind of how Itry to remember that there's a
lot of different paths toparenthood.
You have to accept thateverybody's journey to
parenthood is different and minejust looked a little bit
different than some.
(34:20):
I wouldn't even say most atthis point, who knows.
It doesn't change the fact thatthose are my kids or our kids.
I know Carrie's not here, butI'm acting as if she was.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
Well, I was going to say, if she ever wanted to come
back with you, I do threesomesin here.
You know, very clean threesomes.
Anything that we've forgotten,that you're going to be like if
you leave here, anything aboutthe journey that we haven't
touched on, that you feel.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
That, especially with males who have infertility
issues, with male males who haveinfertility issues, the
emotional trauma that that takeson the partner as well.
It's such a fast first of all,like pregnancy and giving birth
is like such this incrediblytraumatic but beautiful event,
(35:06):
like for Carrie right, like shegoes through nine months of her
body feeling like crap.
But it's not just the ninemonths, it's also the six months
of shots that we had toadminister beforehand and like I
had to look at that and be likeif I wasn't the way that I was,
she wouldn't have to be doingthis.
(35:27):
So that was part of theprocessing for me.
But then also recognizing thatlike she's going through her own
journey with this because she'shaving to do these shots and
I'm having to put a three inchlong needle in my wife's butt
every night and if I'm out oftown or I like there was a
(35:48):
period where I was traveling forwork then she was either having
to self-administer or havefriends come over and do this.
And then also her emotionalprocessing, the fact that, like
her, her children weren't goingto be genetically mine as well.
Like it's a separate emotionaljourney that we were taking on
(36:09):
in different like in differentwavelengths.
One of the things that Iremember big time was like when
she and we talked about this alot this isn't necessarily even
an infertility journey, but evenmore just like a pregnancy
journey is like her life gotrocked the moment she got, like
really even before we gotpregnant, because she stopped
drinking.
(36:29):
She, you know, was trying to eatclean for the baby and like
then, all of a sudden,especially with the shots, like
all the hormonal changes thatshe was going through, like even
though I might've beenemotionally going through this,
I could still go out with myfriends and have beers, I was
still going out to play golf, Iwas still being able to do all
the things that I had done untilthe baby came.
And so, like there's probablythis year long process in
(36:51):
between when, like, her worldgot rocked and my world got
rocked.
So we were both going throughthis like traumatic journey
together but separate, and thatmade for some really difficult
and rocky situations that I hopeshe would say that I processed
a lot better the second timethan I did the first time around
(37:13):
, because I'll be the first tosay that I probably wasn't the
best partner the first timearound when we were going
through all this, partiallybecause I think I was deflecting
, I was like diving into mybusiness, I was like trying to
do anything that I could to stopprocessing this.
There were some reallydifficult moments as a
relationship that we wentthrough, both infertility wise
(37:33):
and also pregnancy wise, beforewe had our kids.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
Yeah, and I think it is important for everyone to
know.
You know if you're goingthrough infertility in your
marriage.
We know what you're goingthrough in terms of it's not
going to be what you're soldbefore you get.
You know, walking down theaisle and everything's a hunky
dory and that's okay.
It's part going to be whatyou're sold before you get.
You know, walking down theaisle and everything's hunky
dory and that's OK, it's part ofin good times and in bad and
sickness and in health.
I think people are just astrepidatious to talk about their
(38:01):
marital issues, if not morethan even infertility.
I mean, god forbid you tellanyone that you're having
marital problems becauseeveryone thinks you're great.
No, they don't.
Like we all see it, we allunderstand it's part of the
process.
And if you're going throughthose rocky times, I mean you
are going to process thingsdifferently, especially if you
are of a different gender.
Sorry, like we process thingsdifferent and like what you just
(38:23):
explained, your wife is goingthrough all of these wild
changes that you, as a male, youjust have a seat with your
popcorn going.
What the fuck is happening,right, and so that's just just
owning that and maybe trying tounderstand the other side a
(38:43):
little bit, with a little morecompassion, you know, because we
do, like a lot of usinfertility girlies will go hard
in the pain on our spouses,like all he has to do is put it
in a cup and all he has to do isperform this, like that's what
you hear, right, but the man isgoing through his own thing,
it's.
It's.
You just have to like givegrace at a time where you're
going through like the crazieststorm ever.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
Yeah, I mean, and even, and even situations like
from the male perspective, Imean.
So, yeah, you asked thatquestion about dark times and I
like there's so many that it'salmost like hard to process it.
But like so that act of likeejaculating into a cup is so
(39:25):
difficult to process because, asyou're doing it, you're like
why the fuck am I doing this?
Why do I have to do this?
Why all of my friends aregetting their wives pregnant, no
problem whatsoever.
I remember there was a reallydark conversation where one of
(39:48):
our family members they werelike afraid to tell us that they
had gotten pregnant becausethey knew what we were going
through and they had juststarted trying in the first
month they got pregnant.
And I remember, when they toldthem, like all four of us were
like crying by the end of theconversation, cause like they
had this moment of like immensejoy and we had this moment of
(40:09):
like immense joy and we had thismoment of immense sadness and
then we kind of took that joyaway from them because we were
so sad about like that.
But like so then you know, youhave situations like that where
you hear these stories aboutsomebody getting pregnant
immediately, immediately,immediately.
And then I'm sitting herejacking off into a cup and
taking it to the uh, to the, thefacility for like processing,
(40:36):
and then I have this traumaticexpense event that I talked
about in the intake form, where,like the first time I ejaculate
into the cup I was like this isit Like this is it?
I know there's sperm in there,like we are done.
So I screw the lid on, I put itin the bag, I take it to the
clinic and I open up the bag andI must not have screwed it on
(40:59):
tight enough and it just likewent everywhere in the bag.
And I remember in that momentjust feeling like you are such a
fuck up.
Like that was it.
Like you were set, you weregood.
Turns out I wasn't good, butlike I remember leaving that,
like having to walk out withlike another cup I was going to
have to go home and go do itagain and like bring it back.
(41:21):
And I just remember feelinglike so broken.
And so then I was like, well,I'm never going to go do that
again, like I'm never going tolike jack off at home into a cup
, and so like they're like, well, you can just do it here at the
facility, so even better.
So it's like, oh cool, allright, cool, dr Jane.
So you go into Dr Jane's officeand they have an ejaculation
(41:43):
room and there's like a bunch ofporno mags on the floor and I'm
like, and you know, they're Dr.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
Jane's, like last year's issues.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
Well, I'm like.
What the hell Like is this?
1988?
.
Like you can pull something upon your phone at this point,
like it was just it just thewhole process and blood tests,
and like I mean Carrie and Iwere so desensitized by needles
by the end of all this becausewe were just both getting poked
and prodded like the entire time, whether it be her with her
shots or me like with my bloodwork.
I mean it was like we were justgoing in all the time for all
this stuff.
Speaker 1 (42:14):
How did Carrie handle hearing that you had, you know,
fumbled a ball on that sampleand it was all over the bag?
How do you call her?
So, honey, listen, love you alot.
Yeah, I mean, I have some news.
Speaker 2 (42:31):
Yeah, I mean mean I remember that.
I actually do remember callingher.
It was I was on the you're onthe way home or was when she got
home, uh, that night and umfrom work or whatever and I do
remember like she could tell howvisibly upset I was by what had
happened, that like she didn'treally she was up, like she was
more like supporting me becauselike it was clear that I was
(42:52):
like completely broken at thatpoint, like I.
That was.
That was probably the darkest,even like going back to thinking
about what we were talkingabout, like that was probably
the moment where I was like fuck, like um, like I don't know if
I can do this, um, and everybodyhas one of those like rock
bottom moments, and for me thatwas it when I was like I'm like
I don't know if I can do this,and everybody has one of those
like rock bottom moments, andfor me that was it when I was
(43:13):
like yeah, this is it, and thenyou just go straight to the
bottom.
But I think one thing to notewith that and everything is that
one of the things when I talkabout like in my yoga classes is
that like life is full of peaksand valleys, and there are
always lows and there are alwayshighs, but we have to do what
best we can to manage and try tostay in the in the balance.
(43:34):
Um, if you're at the darkest ofdarks, life will come back to
balance.
If you're at the peak, it's notalways going to stay there, it
will come back down.
So, just trying to rely onpeople that you care about, have
conversations that matter, dothings that you love Like for me
, it's golf and practicing yoga,like those are the two things
that I love to do, making surethat I'm doing a good job to
take care of myself so I cantake care of the other people
(43:56):
too.
Um, in my life that I love andyou know that's that applies
everywhere, that doesn't justapply through this, but you know
that was a low.
But, like you know, took thekids to Disney last week.
You know I took the kids to.
Disney last week.
That was the high.
You know like watching Bradyget so excited about meeting
Mickey Mouse.
It was like this is why we didthis, this is the payoff, and
(44:16):
every day there's moments likethat.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
How important has yoga been in your healing and
your journey.
Speaker 2 (44:25):
Really it's interesting because it's
probably shifted.
Whereas, like, relying on thephysical practice of yoga for so
long was so important for me,now it's a function of like time
.
Like I've made the commitmentthat I'm going to be a father
first, so I'm not at the studiosas much, I'm not like I'm, you
(44:51):
know, when it comes down to 5o''clock, like I'm home and I'm
with the kids and I'm there forbedtime.
I, while I might not get topersonally practice as much,
that doesn't mean I'm notpracticing.
It's turned into a lot of likeself-practice at home.
It's turned into a lot of likesleep meditations, because sleep
has become a challenge uh, bothgetting to sleep and like just
getting enough sleep in general.
(45:11):
So putting on sleep meditation,meditations before I go to bed
to help me just calm down and goto sleep.
But I try to practice twice aweek.
It doesn't always happen, butat least I get to teach and in
some ways the teaching hasbecome like the yoga for me, you
know, even though I'm notpracticing when I teach.
But it is incredibly therapeuticbecause either practicing or
(45:33):
teaching, because you know, ifyou're practicing you get to
move your body, you get tocleanse, you get to be alone
with your thoughts for an hour,which we never really get to do
Um and in our studios like nophones, so no distractions, it's
just you, your mat and yourbreath for 60 minutes, which is
wonderful, and it's a way todetach from everything that
(45:53):
you've got going on, likeeverything that you had coming
into that room is still going tobe there when you walk out, but
maybe you just feel a littlebit better when you walk out, a
little bit lighter, and then youknow, when I'm teaching we
always set intentions asinstructors at the beginning of
class and usually my intentionis going to be something that
I'm working through.
So it helps me to like mentallyprocess what I'm going through
(46:14):
in my own life and then I sharethat with my students and
hopefully it lands with a few ofthem and you know we can
connect on that after class.
Speaker 1 (46:21):
Well, I was at Moda recently.
I'm embarrassed to say that wasmy first time.
But, I was there.
I loved it.
I love the space, I love theenergy.
I highly recommend it.
The ones on Dublin Road, yep,and then the new ones in
Clintonville on High Street yes.
Speaker 2 (46:35):
Just just south of Graceland Shopping Center.
Speaker 1 (46:38):
Yeah.
So if you haven't heard of Modoyet and you love yoga, I highly
recommend getting your arse andyour mat to Modo.
Whether Chad's teaching or not,I can't remember the, what's
the the name?
What's the name of your studiomanager in Dublin Road, leanne?
So I think Leanne taught andshe was lovely.
Chad, I cannot thank you enoughfor being here, and sharing your
(46:59):
story and I know there are somany men out there that are kind
of breathing a little sigh ofrelief right now like I'm not
alone.
So it's huge and it was nice tofinally lock eyes with you.
Yeah, I'm going to take one ofyour classes soon, please do.
Speaker 2 (47:11):
You can bet on that, yeah, and I mean, look, if there
are men out there that evenwant to connect.
I know you have my Instagram.
I don't know if you're gonnapost or whatever, but like I'm
open to talking about this andI've helped a lot of my friends
through this and like, if you'restruggling, like know that
that's okay and know that youcan reach out to somebody, even
if it's me.
Like if it's me, great.
(47:32):
If it's not me, that's fine too.
But like doors open, DMs areopen, Like, feel free to reach
out to me too.
Speaker 1 (47:39):
I love that and if you're still out there following
your girl, follow me on YouTube, spotify, apple or wherever you
get your podcasts.
And until next time, keepmoving baby.
Hey there you beautiful badass.
Welcome to the Keri Croft Show.
I'm your host, keri Croft,delivering you stories that get
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Don't say I've never doneanything for you.
Chad Underwood, welcome to theKeri Croft Show.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Thank you, happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
I am just.
I am honored that you're here.
Well thank you, not just becauseit's you and I feel like the
universe has been conspiring forus to sit together for a couple
years now, like I told you.
But then I put out this youknow, we're doing this
infertility series and I wasgetting my nails done and it hit
me like a ton of bricks whereI'm like, okay, I've been so
focused on being inclusive whenI was having that mental
(01:44):
conversation and having theconversation with Kate and
internally it's like, okay,same-sex couples check.
Okay, women who have are 20years away check.
And it was women, women, women.
And all of a sudden I'm likewhat about the man?
So I put that out.
You write back rather quickly.
Hey, my wife lobbed this to me.
I want to come in and I want totalk, yeah, so I just feel like
this is such an importantconversation and it's it's rare
(02:07):
that we sit with a man who iswilling to open up about male
factor infertility.
So thank you for yourvulnerability and for being here
.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Yeah, you're very welcome.
I think it's something thatneeds to be talked about from
every angle, and I'm just happyto be here, I'm happy to share
my story.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
So let's start with when you and Carrie, your wife,
decided you want to have kids.
Walk us down the road of whenit was like, okay, the signs are
pointing towards my sperm.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Yeah, I mean well, we .
So we got married in June of2018.
And then we were, you know andthis isn't necessarily ancillary
, but we were both kind of readyto start having kids.
I was 33, I think at this timeand we were like, hey, let's
start having kids.
And so we decided to starttrying around Christmas time of
(02:55):
that year.
So we'd been married for sixmonths.
We were going to start tryingto get pregnant.
There was six months where wewere just looking at the
calendar and knowing when wewere supposed to be having sex
and when things were supposed tobe working out and they just
weren't working out.
And it was a pretty quick timeframe.
I feel like a lot of couplesit's years or maybe even a
(03:16):
decade that could pass when theyfinally start to go down the
infertility process.
But we were really eager tohave children.
That, like we I remember we wentto Hawaii and Carrie was like,
if we don't get pregnant whenwe're in Hawaii, like when we
come home, I'm going to set upan appointment with an
infertility specialist.
And so a month later we set upan appointment with Dr Jane up
(03:38):
in Westerville and I think wethat started like that summer
and we started going through allsorts of like tests and,
initially, the.
I think we that started likethat summer and we started going
through all sorts of like testsand initially, the very first
test, um, like Carrie cycledidn't have, like she didn't
have the.
It looked like she might be theissue with her for whatever
(03:58):
reason.
That cycle she didn't have aton of eggs that she was
producing.
But then, like, after two moremonths, the doctor was like no,
no, no, no, no, like you're fine, we need to start looking at
Chad.
Um, so then over the next coupleof months, like throughout the
fall of 2019, um, I was doinglike I probably did like seven
(04:19):
or eight like sperm checks andeventually it got to the point
where they just they they eithercame back as like trace amounts
of sperm or no sperm at all.
Um, and then that February waswhen I had like the final
operation.
Like we went into, so I went togo see a urologist and go see a
specialist, but then so, likeFebruary 2020 was when, um, when
(04:44):
I had the operation and so theydid like a testicular biopsy
and then they identified that Ihad no sperm at all.
So I was diagnosed with what'scalled azuspermia, and it just
means I was born without thecapability to process sperm or
(05:05):
create sperm.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Because I was going to say sometimes you can go in
and that's a different diagnosis, because you have a couple in
there they can take out.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Yes, that was what they were trying to do.
He was trying to go in to pullout some sperm, if there were
any available, and they ran thetests on it and there were none,
and that was tough.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
I was going to say can you take us back to when you
heard that, when you're like,wait, there's nothing, there's
not one in there.
How did that impact you andwhat did you think?
How did you process?
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Well, I guess the immediacy of when I found out I
was still under the influence ofthe anesthesia, so it was kind
of like I was in a really bigfog so I didn't really like.
I was like coming up from beingunder in the surgery and so
Carrie was there with me and Iremember her just kind of like
breaking down and crying, but Istill don't think I was like
(05:58):
fully like alert, like I washaving the conversation with
them, but I was in a fog andthen, like I slept for another
couple of hours and then we gothome and then we actually like
had the conversation and thatwas when, like it really hit me
like okay, like in my mind andthis isn't how I feel in any way
, shape or form, in my mind thatwas like I'm not going to be a
(06:19):
father and I always wanted to bea dad.
I like, and I always wanted tobe a dad.
I love my kids to death.
Being a dad is such a big partof my life now, which I'm sure
we'll get to, but in that momentit felt like the dream of us
(06:41):
being parents was over.
The one thing that I doremember very vividly that the
urologist said, and it wassomething that I thought was so
important for me to process andI don't think I processed it
fully for like a long time.
A lot of the concern when westarted this was like were there
factors that I could have?
You know, a lot of the factorswere like do you spend excessive
time in heat?
(07:01):
Okay, well, I teach hot yoga.
I'm in that hot room, you know,eight 10 hours a week, so I
spend a lot of time in a hundreddegree room.
Have you ever spent a lot oftime with, like like electronics
on your lap?
Well, like when I was incollege, I remember sitting with
my laptop like on my lap allthe time, right, so like that
was another factor.
(07:21):
And then the third one was likedo you smoke marijuana?
And there was a period of mytime where I was smoking a lot
of marijuana.
So I'm like these three strikesare against me, but what?
What he said was like you wereone in 10,000.
Like there's nothing you couldhave done that could have
changed this outcome for you.
Like this is this is you werediagnosed with this.
(07:42):
Like this was here from themoment you were born.
For you, like this is this isyou were diagnosed with this.
Like this was here from themoment you were born and that
did help me cope.
To know that, like, even ifthere were all these external
factors that maybe, like, wouldhave prevented me from having
sperm and having my own geneticchildren, like the end result
could never have been changed,because that's just who I am and
that's part of my identity.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
So you get hit with this diagnosis which I can
imagine on so many fronts was alot to probably.
You probably are stillprocessing.
I mean that's you know that'sit's, it's, that's a big big
thing.
Um, especially as we discussedand you discussed your intake
form just this whole idea ofmasculinity in our culture and
the way that conceiving between,like when guys are having a
(08:25):
beer and they're talking andit's like you know, oh, you got
the strong swimmers and likepenis size, I mean name it like
it's a whole bro culture whereit's like you know, you're not
comfortably and like hey, by theway, I don't make any spirit,
like that had to be like a wholething.
But let's go into when you andCarrie realize this door is
closed for you guys to naturallyconceive.
(08:46):
So now we have other doors thatwe need to look at right, we
have the adoption door, we havethe donor door, or we have the
childless by choice door.
Yeah, and how did thatconversation come about and who
was the antagonist and how didthat all go.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Well, I mean, I'll tell you, we probably went
through, we probably looked atall the doors, Um, and you know,
even looking back now, it waslike funny.
I mean I think some of thejokes that we made were like
coping mechanisms, but Iremember at one point we were at
a friend's house Um, they havecondos in like the park's edge
apartments downtown and we wentto this party at the park's edge
and we're in like I remember Ican't remember who said the joke
(09:24):
, or whatever but it was like,well, I mean like this could
just, like we could just livehere forever, Like we could just
live in this building and like,if we're not going to have kids
, like let's, let's move, let'slive the cosmopolitan Columbus
life and live in the high rise,and that's going to be what we
do.
And that was like one thingthat we talked about.
But I think, ultimately, whatit came down to is like I still
remember when Carrie and I wereon our second date, and from the
(09:45):
time of our second date we knewlike we were meant to be
together and like one of theearliest conversations that we
had was that we both wanted tobe parents, and like we wanted
to have a family and I think anytime we like started to talk
about being the cool aunt anduncle because we had some nieces
and nephews, or like let's livethe high rise life and just not
worry about it.
Like you know, let's move outof our suburban home and back
(10:08):
into the city.
That wasn't going to give usthe life that we wanted and like
the fulfillment.
And so then we started to talkabout other avenues Once we got
to the point where I wasdiagnosed with the azuspermia
and we went to like we kepttalking with Dr Jane and, like
figuring out how we were goingto do this.
It was really a function of likehow is this going to look?
(10:32):
And there is the donor route,and I remember there was a
conversation and Carrie remindedme of this a couple days ago
that, like she was adamant for aperiod of time that, like if I
had to do a sperm domer, thatshe was going to do an egg donor
and that that even if shecarried the baby, like she
wanted it to be an egg donorbecause she felt so guilty about
(10:57):
me not being able to have mygenetic children that she was
willing to forego the childrenbeing her genetic children.
And I was like you're crazy,Absolutely not.
Like we're not, like that's notan option, that's not on the
table.
But we had those conversations.
I was like no, like ourchildren should at least half be
genetically ours.
(11:17):
Like that, like I wanted thatso much for her.
And so then we started goingdown the sperm donor route and
looking into it.
And that was an experience inand of itself which, like on
some levels, looking back on,was like kind of interesting,
Like it's fascinating to thinkabout, but in the moment, like
(11:39):
shopping for sperm donors, waslike so incredibly heartbreaking
.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Well, I mean, you know, you think about just
Tinder or Hinge for dating.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Which is how Karen and I met.
We met on Tinder.
But then you take it like threesteps further.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
You're like never thought I would be looking for
someone who looks similar to me,that has the same height, the
same you know to carry my child.
I mean, it's definitely notsomething that anybody would
ever think they would beexperiencing, but such is life.
Yeah, I mean right.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
I mean there's certain things that you can
control or certain things thatyou can't control and, like, I
can't control the fact that Ican't produce sperm, but we can
control how we react to thecircumstances that we were under
.
But we can control how we reactto the circumstances that we
were under and I think that, inthe grand scheme of things, as
heartbreaking as all of it was,we still knew what the end goal
was and we were both willing towork together to get to this
(12:34):
point where we have our you know, our two children.
But like the sperm donor piecewas, so was just like it was
really it was tough for both ofus, but it's really weird, like
feeling like you're shopping onAmazon for yourself, like that's
, I mean it's like and the spermbank stuff, like for anybody
out there who hasn't like beenthrough this it's, I mean it's
wild because there's like 20 orso throughout the country and Dr
(12:55):
Jane presents you with thislist of like and his first
recommendation is, just so youknow, like, don't go with a
sperm bank from like Ohio.
And at first you're like okay,like cool, like whatever he's
like no, no, no.
Like you don't understand, likeyou don't want your kid being
at like the high school prom andtheir date looks a lot like
(13:16):
your kid because it's actuallythe same sperm donor.
So he's like pick a randomsperm bank from like wherever.
So I think ours is likeWashington or California or
something like that.
And so you start shopping, youknow, you start filtering out.
Like you know somebody who'sbetween five, 11 and six, one,
brown hair, german and Scottishdescent.
(13:36):
Like you can go as far down aslike uh, education level, so
like I have a, I have a lawdegree, so it's like you can say
post postgraduate degrees, likethere's so many different
little factors that you can do.
And then it just pumps out likeseven people and all you see
are there like like childhoodphotos and this kid I'll never
forget it Like when I was a kidI was a huge Michael Jordan fan,
(13:59):
as like I'm pretty sureeverybody around my age was, and
this kid kid looked, thisfour-year-old looked exactly
like me and he was wearing aChicago Bulls jersey.
And so then we open up the, weopen up the like the, the form,
and you you can see like hobbiesor whatever he's into, and he
(14:19):
was like gave up a life of likelaw, he was a lawyer, gave up a
life of law and like to becomean artist.
So he has like this creativeside and then in his spare time,
like loved practicing yoga andit was like that's the guy, like
wherever he is, like that's,that's perfect, like it's the
(14:40):
it's as close to me as we'regoing to get.
And when you look at Brady, Imean he looks a lot like me,
even though he's not geneticallymy child.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Can you think back like when was your, I think,
lowest, lowest point with all ofthis?
Speaker 2 (14:57):
mentally, and this is less.
I mean, this is still like aninfertility conversation, but
it's a little bit like ancillaryworld stuff, I mean.
So my operation for thetesticular biopsy was February
28th of 2020.
And then you know, owning abusiness that's primarily
dependent on people coming intoyour doors and practicing in the
(15:17):
heat with the hot yoga studio,march 14th or 15th we had to
shut the studio down and wedidn't know when we'd reopen.
So, within the span of twoweeks, I get you know this news
that I think I'm never going tobecome a father.
And then, all of a sudden, Ithink, like, like, are we going
to be able to pay our rent?
Like, are we going to have tofile bankruptcy?
Like, what's like I it seems sosilly now to think about, but
(15:40):
in that moment, like it was trueterror and fear, like I had no
idea what was about to happen,and so that, like spring summer
was like just mentally, just nota good place.
I was throwing myself intoteaching, like the online
streaming yoga classes, just asmany as I could possibly do.
(16:00):
I was throwing myself into,like working on the business and
trying to come up with likeplans for what would happen if
we wouldn't reopen, like I justjust remember trying to deflect
and not thinking about anythinghaving to do with home because I
was so devastated in what wasgoing on.
(16:21):
I think my tendency is when,rather than process grief
immediately, I tend to throwmyself into something else and
deflect and then eventually ithits you really hard.
And that summer I I just Iremember there was a day where I
just remember a day where wewere sitting at home and
probably like drinking wine onthe couch and it was like right
(16:44):
about when we did the spermdonor thing and it was just not
a good situation.
I remember breaking down, Iwasn't sleeping, I was waking up
in the middle of the night andwouldn't be able to go back to
sleep for like three hours at atime.
Just all of the fear andanxiety and stress that I was
under was catching up to me.
(17:05):
And then it became a functionof like okay, we really need to
talk about this and startprocessing it and start moving
through it.
But it didn't happenimmediately.
It was probably another three tofour months until I started
going to see a therapist andstarting to work through, kind
of like, how it was reallyimpacting me rather than
deflecting it.
And that was really hard onCarrie too, because I think that
(17:26):
it's so hard when you're in itwith someone, it's hard to talk
to that someone and work throughthe problem together without
talking to somebody else first.
And I was so scared to talk toanybody about what I was going
through, let alone somebody whowas close to me, like a friend
or a confidant, that the onlyway that I was able to work
(17:48):
through the trauma that I hadgone through was by talking to
this outside therapist that Ihad never met me before in my
life and that I found that to bea really productive way to work
through the struggles that Iwas having.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Aside from Carrie and this therapist, who did you
lean on in your support system?
Anyone?
Did you share this with anyone?
So?
Speaker 2 (18:13):
I did.
Luckily, I have an amazing teamat Modo and they were kind of
they were knowing what I wasgoing through because I had to.
Before I had had my bigoperation in February, I had had
to stop teaching in the heatbecause they thought that maybe,
like hey, if I remove myselffrom the heat for a couple of
months, then maybe that wouldenable my sperm to get going.
(18:35):
It turns out that wasn't thecase, um, but so I had, like all
my team members and and theteachers and even some students
at moto were reaching out, likehey, you're not on the schedule,
like what's going on?
Is everything okay?
So I did have to kind of relyon some people there, like
especially our studio manager,leanne, and some of our like big
teachers, and I remember Italked about it in a staff
meeting.
So the Modo community reallyhelped me to process and that
(19:02):
community in general is likewe're a pretty emotional
community.
We're.
We're all about being togetherand kind of helping push through
like tough times for everybody,um, and also using yoga as like
a stress coping mechanism and aand a, you know, a way to work
through past traumas andself-healing.
You know the moto community, Iwould say, especially our studio
manager Leanne, like she was aconfidant, um, but as far as
(19:24):
like anybody else, not really.
It was kind of tough for mebecause I think in some ways,
like our parents' tendencies areingrained in us and so I know
that my mom had me when she was40 and my mom had eight
miscarriages, and so I rememberthis is even well before like
(19:45):
the infertility stuff started.
I remember my mom telling methat well, like, we just didn't
talk about it, like and this isback in the seventies and
eighties Like I just nevertalked to anybody about this.
I'm like, mom, you went througheight miscarriages and never
talked to anybody about this.
And so I think when I was going, starting to go through this
process, I like I was like, well, I have to internalize it as
(20:07):
well.
Because in my mind I wasthinking, well, that's like,
that's what my mom did, likethat was like my experience with
infertility.
But once I started, you know,carrie and I started making that
commitment to try to workthrough this stuff, both
together and with our owntherapists, because we had our
own individual therapists andthen we had a couple therapy
(20:27):
sessions together.
Once that happened, we startedgetting more comfortable talking
with people about this, andthen you started realizing just
how many other people were goingthrough what you are, um, and I
do.
I now that this kickstart kindof jogs some of my memory too
like we did have a couple, um,one of our dearest friends.
(20:50):
They were kind of like ourconfidants because they were the
ones that now this is clickingback in my mind they were the
ones that recommended us to DrJane.
So there was one couple friendof ours that had gone through
infertility and they had used DrJane to have their two children
, and so that kind of like ledus to go to him in the in the
first place.
(21:10):
And then it was like once westarted, once people started
finding out and were aware thatwe had our journey, then we
became those confidants forother people that were on their
journeys, and so it is this kindof like beautiful, like
community in and of itself ofpeople that have gone through
this together that we can all,once you start to have the
(21:32):
conversations, you realize justhow many other couples are being
impacted by this.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
It's the I think it's the beauty of transparency with
anything.
When you're fully open andtransparent about something, it
is such an attractor to everyone.
And it's amazing the thingsthat will come.
Just this show alone, like Ican't wait's amazing.
The things that will come, justjust the show alone, like I
can't wait to see the males thatkind of come around.
I hope so.
Oh, absolutely, there's nodoubt.
(21:56):
Yeah, and it was.
I mean, what was that like,though, with your bros?
Like having be, like, you know,hanging out watching golf?
Like hey, dude, how do peoplesupport you today?
Like hey dude, like how?
Speaker 2 (22:07):
how did that go?
There's a mental exercise oflike do I need to correct this
person or do I not need tocorrect this person.
Like if it's somebody who Ijust met, I might never see them
again.
Like I'm not going to spend thetime of like trying to correct
that person because I don't knowif I'm ever going to see them
again.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
They don't necessarily need to know, but if
you're talking about, ifsomebody, somebody asks like,
says something about in general,just about like whatever, like
I remember.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
So one one experience was and I play a lot of golf
and I I remember, uh, whencarrie was pregnant the first
time we were walking down thefairways and I've heard this
hundreds and hundreds of timesfrom people where it's like, oh
yeah, carrie's pregnant,congrats on the sex, like okay,
cool, okay, cool, Like got itOkay.
I remember, like it was a goodbuddy of mine, he said that and
(22:55):
I had to go through thisexercise.
I'm like this is somebody thatI know, Not a lot of time with,
but somebody that I seeregularly.
This is somebody that's goingto, that knows my wife, knows,
will know my family, Like I needto make.
Take this to be the moment andbe like hey, just like.
So you know, that's actuallynot how this worked.
I can't have my own childrenand sometimes you see the
(23:17):
reaction and they're like liketheir jaws drop.
But I think that's important forpeople to realize that, even
just like something seeminglyinnocent, as like hey, that's so
great, Congrats on the sex,which I think I don't really
love that comment anyways, butlike that's what people do and
that's what people say.
That can be incredibly hurtfulfor people to hear or whatever
(23:40):
it might be, like hey, yeah,like great.
Like let's do our masculinecomments about whatever it is,
and it's like, even though Imight be sitting here as
somebody who likes to golf andlikes to go out and drink beers,
like those comments can beincredibly hurtful to me.
Or even something as simple asand and you know, I see this
(24:01):
happen both with men andespecially like a lot of older
ladies who meet my child andthey're like, oh my God, he
looks just like you and it'slike, well, yeah, he does.
But that isn't that commentalone, even though that's the
first thing that somebody saysis like a twist of the knife in
my belly every time I hear that.
And so then I go through themental exercise again like do I
(24:24):
correct this person?
Do I not correct this person?
Like and part of that is alsomy own preservation of my own
mental state because, like somepeople like I just don't want to
correct them, because I don'twant to then have to explain it
and go through the story andlike it becomes like reliving
these like little nightmares allthe time.
(24:45):
But then some people like needto know, because they're going
to be in my life for extendedperiods of time.
So every single time there's aconversation that could
potentially come about of it, itis like rehashing those
nightmares.
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Did you guys ever consideradoption, or how did that
(26:40):
conversation go?
Speaker 2 (26:51):
We definitely talked about it.
We were also and I'll be thefirst to say, like we were
incredibly fortunate in thatCarrie's job covered IVF.
So for us, when it startedbeing a function of like even a
financial decision which is likeincredibly fucked up that we
even have to think about it thatway but like when we started
looking at like the financialsof doing adoption versus the
financials for us individuallyof doing IVF number one IVF at
least gave Carrie theopportunity to carry her own
(27:12):
child and all that sort of stuff.
But then also like it wascovered by insurance.
So and like again, I'll be thefirst to say like we are
incredibly thankful to DSW ordesigner brands that like they
even offered that for theiremployees.
But that's kind of like IVF wasalways more preferable.
Adoption was probably on thetable, but we were like that was
(27:34):
like the next step.
It was like if IVF doesn't work, then we'll go down that road.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
I guess what would you say to people out there who
are supporting someone who'sgoing through something like
this, knowing that it is supersensitive, knowing that a very
benign comment can really twista night that you wouldn't even
intend, how can someone bestsupport someone going through
this type of journey?
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Yeah, I mean I think it is a tough question because I
don't fault people for just youknow, like the offhanded
comment, like oh my God, helooks so like you, like that is
a very natural thing to want tosay, and I I don't, even, cause
I I'm sure that before I wentthrough this I said that to my
friends' kids or you know, we'rearound people that said that
(28:21):
and it never even registered inmy mind.
But I think it's important forreframing just even if you don't
know if a person's goingthrough it, reframing my own
mindset and like I'm never goingto say those things again, Like
those aren't comments that I'mgoing to make to people, and if
people can be aware of just howmany individuals are going
through these journeys, even ifit's an offhanded comment or
(28:44):
something that you've said forgenerations, like it might be
something that needs to changeand maybe we reframe how we have
those conversations and that'snot easy to do.
I will say that, like if you're, if you're aware that somebody
that in your life is goingthrough this journey, the
biggest thing that I can say isjust be supportive.
I mean, there are so many askquestions because the more we
(29:09):
can talk about it, the more wecan cope and process it and the
more we feel like people areunderstanding and respectful of
what it is that we're goingthrough.
Like the end goal is to havethis beautiful thing, this
beautiful child, and that's whatwe ultimately wanted, and we
wanted people and to haveconversations with people that
wanted to support us in thatgoal.
(29:29):
If people don't want to talkabout it, that's okay too, but I
think it's just important tosupport folks that you know
they're going through thisjourney, because you know every
person's going to process it andgo through it in their own way.
But even if it's just afunction of like I'm just going
to come over and hang out withyou for a night, we don't have
to talk about anything.
We can watch the football gameor we can go for a walk and we
(29:53):
can talk about whatever.
Or for me, it was like let mefind people that I know that I
can go spend nine holes of golfwith or go take a yoga class
with, and just people that Ifelt good being around, that
were helping me get through it.
Even if it wasn't a function oflike we're actually going to
sit down and talk about it,because sometimes that's not
what I wanted to do.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
What's the plan for transparency with the kids?
Speaker 2 (30:13):
We're already talking about it.
One of the things that we so,whenever you're going through
this and, like Dr Jane, part ofthe process with him is you have
to have at least oneconversation before you go
through this journey.
You have to have a conversationwith the therapist, and one of
(30:35):
the things that the therapistthat we met with recommended not
like steadfast, you have to dothis but was that start talking
to your children about this asearly as possible, like from the
moment that they can talk,start talking to them.
And she, I remember she threwus like some books that like
talked about being a donor baby.
You know all that sort of stuffand we didn't buy those.
But like from early on, as soonas Brady, our first kid, um,
(30:55):
started talking, we startedhaving the conversation with him
.
That you know, hey, there'sfour people.
You know most people have amommy and daddy that helped make
their kids.
And for you there were fourpeople that were involved.
There was mommy mommy broughther belly.
Daddy, daddy brought his heart,doctor, doctor brought his mind
.
And the donor the donor broughtthe missing piece.
(31:17):
And if you sit down with Bradyand you say Brady, hey, how many
people helped make you?
And he'll say four and he'llsay mommy, daddy, doctor, donor,
and it is like the cutest waythat he says it no-transcript,
(31:52):
but for us we decided to leaveit open.
So when he turns 18, that'sgoing to be an opportunity where
he can reach out to his donorif he wants.
He has to be the one toinitiate that, and then that'll
probably make me go through awhole nother set of emotions and
trauma and processing at thatpoint, if he chooses to do that,
but that's okay.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
so yeah, those conversations are already
happening as he grows and yourlove for him grows as it does,
how does that change theinternal wrestling match that
you have inside of, like, oh I'mnot the biological father, but
I love this child so much does?
Do you feel like that wrestlingmatch you're getting, it's
getting easier?
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Well, in my mind I'm thinking of the fact that our
son is not sleeping through thenight right now and screaming in
the middle of the night.
So I'm like, yeah, you're notmy child, um, but you know,
that's my first reaction.
Um, but no, I mean I thinkthere's always an internal
wrestling match that's going on.
(32:53):
One thing that I've come tounderstand is that, like,
parenthood can mean a lot ofthings.
There are a lot of geneticparents out there that aren't
involved in their children'slives at all and if you spend
any significant amount of timewith myself and my kids, like
those kids, like I, I there's,there's no part of me that
(33:16):
doesn't feel like their father.
And just because they might notgenetically be mine, like, I
love those two and sometimes thethree-year-old is, is a, is a,
is a.
He's difficult to lovesometimes, but, like you know, I
mean I look at those two andlike we are a family and I will
do anything for the rest of mylife to protect those two and to
(33:38):
care for them and to providefor them.
And just because I went throughthis journey I think in some
ways it probably with Carrie andI the fact that we went through
this journey together makes itmean that much more to be
parents and to have thesespecial moments with our kids.
It's more when the like thetwist of the knife moments
happen.
I don't think of it like 98percent of the time, but those
(33:59):
two percent of the time that youdo.
Yeah, it is hard, but I justhave to remind myself like just
because they might notgenetically be mine doesn't mean
that they're not my children.
And yeah, that's kind of how Itry to remember that there's a
lot of different paths toparenthood.
You have to accept thateverybody's journey to
parenthood is different and minejust looked a little bit
different than some.
(34:20):
I wouldn't even say most atthis point, who knows.
It doesn't change the fact thatthose are my kids or our kids.
I know Carrie's not here, butI'm acting as if she was.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
Well, I was going to say, if she ever wanted to come
back with you, I do threesomesin here.
You know, very clean threesomes.
Anything that we've forgotten,that you're going to be like if
you leave here, anything aboutthe journey that we haven't
touched on, that you feel.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
That, especially with males who have infertility
issues, with male males who haveinfertility issues, the
emotional trauma that that takeson the partner as well.
It's such a fast first of all,like pregnancy and giving birth
is like such this incrediblytraumatic but beautiful event,
(35:06):
like for Carrie right, like shegoes through nine months of her
body feeling like crap.
But it's not just the ninemonths, it's also the six months
of shots that we had toadminister beforehand and like I
had to look at that and be likeif I wasn't the way that I was,
she wouldn't have to be doingthis.
(35:27):
So that was part of theprocessing for me.
But then also recognizing thatlike she's going through her own
journey with this because she'shaving to do these shots and
I'm having to put a three inchlong needle in my wife's butt
every night and if I'm out oftown or I like there was a
(35:48):
period where I was traveling forwork then she was either having
to self-administer or havefriends come over and do this.
And then also her emotionalprocessing, the fact that, like
her, her children weren't goingto be genetically mine as well.
Like it's a separate emotionaljourney that we were taking on
(36:09):
in different like in differentwavelengths.
One of the things that Iremember big time was like when
she and we talked about this alot this isn't necessarily even
an infertility journey, but evenmore just like a pregnancy
journey is like her life gotrocked the moment she got, like
really even before we gotpregnant, because she stopped
drinking.
(36:29):
She, you know, was trying to eatclean for the baby and like
then, all of a sudden,especially with the shots, like
all the hormonal changes thatshe was going through, like even
though I might've beenemotionally going through this,
I could still go out with myfriends and have beers, I was
still going out to play golf, Iwas still being able to do all
the things that I had done untilthe baby came.
And so, like there's probablythis year long process in
(36:51):
between when, like, her worldgot rocked and my world got
rocked.
So we were both going throughthis like traumatic journey
together but separate, and thatmade for some really difficult
and rocky situations that I hopeshe would say that I processed
a lot better the second timethan I did the first time around
(37:13):
, because I'll be the first tosay that I probably wasn't the
best partner the first timearound when we were going
through all this, partiallybecause I think I was deflecting
, I was like diving into mybusiness, I was like trying to
do anything that I could to stopprocessing this.
There were some reallydifficult moments as a
relationship that we wentthrough, both infertility wise
(37:33):
and also pregnancy wise, beforewe had our kids.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
Yeah, and I think it is important for everyone to
know.
You know if you're goingthrough infertility in your
marriage.
We know what you're goingthrough in terms of it's not
going to be what you're soldbefore you get.
You know, walking down theaisle and everything's a hunky
dory and that's okay.
It's part going to be whatyou're sold before you get.
You know, walking down theaisle and everything's hunky
dory and that's OK, it's part ofin good times and in bad and
sickness and in health.
I think people are just astrepidatious to talk about their
(38:01):
marital issues, if not morethan even infertility.
I mean, god forbid you tellanyone that you're having
marital problems becauseeveryone thinks you're great.
No, they don't.
Like we all see it, we allunderstand it's part of the
process.
And if you're going throughthose rocky times, I mean you
are going to process thingsdifferently, especially if you
are of a different gender.
Sorry, like we process thingsdifferent and like what you just
(38:23):
explained, your wife is goingthrough all of these wild
changes that you, as a male, youjust have a seat with your
popcorn going.
What the fuck is happening,right, and so that's just just
owning that and maybe trying tounderstand the other side a
(38:43):
little bit, with a little morecompassion, you know, because we
do, like a lot of usinfertility girlies will go hard
in the pain on our spouses,like all he has to do is put it
in a cup and all he has to do isperform this, like that's what
you hear, right, but the man isgoing through his own thing,
it's.
It's.
You just have to like givegrace at a time where you're
going through like the crazieststorm ever.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
Yeah, I mean, and even, and even situations like
from the male perspective, Imean.
So, yeah, you asked thatquestion about dark times and I
like there's so many that it'salmost like hard to process it.
But like so that act of likeejaculating into a cup is so
(39:25):
difficult to process because, asyou're doing it, you're like
why the fuck am I doing this?
Why do I have to do this?
Why all of my friends aregetting their wives pregnant, no
problem whatsoever.
I remember there was a reallydark conversation where one of
(39:48):
our family members they werelike afraid to tell us that they
had gotten pregnant becausethey knew what we were going
through and they had juststarted trying in the first
month they got pregnant.
And I remember, when they toldthem, like all four of us were
like crying by the end of theconversation, cause like they
had this moment of like immensejoy and we had this moment of
(40:09):
like immense joy and we had thismoment of immense sadness and
then we kind of took that joyaway from them because we were
so sad about like that.
But like so then you know, youhave situations like that where
you hear these stories aboutsomebody getting pregnant
immediately, immediately,immediately.
And then I'm sitting herejacking off into a cup and
taking it to the uh, to the, thefacility for like processing,
(40:36):
and then I have this traumaticexpense event that I talked
about in the intake form, where,like the first time I ejaculate
into the cup I was like this isit Like this is it?
I know there's sperm in there,like we are done.
So I screw the lid on, I put itin the bag, I take it to the
clinic and I open up the bag andI must not have screwed it on
(40:59):
tight enough and it just likewent everywhere in the bag.
And I remember in that momentjust feeling like you are such a
fuck up.
Like that was it.
Like you were set, you weregood.
Turns out I wasn't good, butlike I remember leaving that,
like having to walk out withlike another cup I was going to
have to go home and go do itagain and like bring it back.
(41:21):
And I just remember feelinglike so broken.
And so then I was like, well,I'm never going to go do that
again, like I'm never going tolike jack off at home into a cup
, and so like they're like, well, you can just do it here at the
facility, so even better.
So it's like, oh cool, allright, cool, dr Jane.
So you go into Dr Jane's officeand they have an ejaculation
(41:43):
room and there's like a bunch ofporno mags on the floor and I'm
like, and you know, they're Dr.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
Jane's, like last year's issues.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
Well, I'm like.
What the hell Like is this?
1988?
.
Like you can pull something upon your phone at this point,
like it was just it just thewhole process and blood tests,
and like I mean Carrie and Iwere so desensitized by needles
by the end of all this becausewe were just both getting poked
and prodded like the entire time, whether it be her with her
shots or me like with my bloodwork.
I mean it was like we were justgoing in all the time for all
this stuff.
Speaker 1 (42:14):
How did Carrie handle hearing that you had, you know,
fumbled a ball on that sampleand it was all over the bag?
How do you call her?
So, honey, listen, love you alot.
Yeah, I mean, I have some news.
Speaker 2 (42:31):
Yeah, I mean mean I remember that.
I actually do remember callingher.
It was I was on the you're onthe way home or was when she got
home, uh, that night and umfrom work or whatever and I do
remember like she could tell howvisibly upset I was by what had
happened, that like she didn'treally she was up, like she was
more like supporting me becauselike it was clear that I was
(42:52):
like completely broken at thatpoint, like I.
That was.
That was probably the darkest,even like going back to thinking
about what we were talkingabout, like that was probably
the moment where I was like fuck, like um, like I don't know if
I can do this, um, and everybodyhas one of those like rock
bottom moments, and for me thatwas it when I was like I'm like
I don't know if I can do this,and everybody has one of those
like rock bottom moments, andfor me that was it when I was
(43:13):
like yeah, this is it, and thenyou just go straight to the
bottom.
But I think one thing to notewith that and everything is that
one of the things when I talkabout like in my yoga classes is
that like life is full of peaksand valleys, and there are
always lows and there are alwayshighs, but we have to do what
best we can to manage and try tostay in the in the balance.
(43:34):
Um, if you're at the darkest ofdarks, life will come back to
balance.
If you're at the peak, it's notalways going to stay there, it
will come back down.
So, just trying to rely onpeople that you care about, have
conversations that matter, dothings that you love Like for me
, it's golf and practicing yoga,like those are the two things
that I love to do, making surethat I'm doing a good job to
take care of myself so I cantake care of the other people
(43:56):
too.
Um, in my life that I love andyou know that's that applies
everywhere, that doesn't justapply through this, but you know
that was a low.
But, like you know, took thekids to Disney last week.
You know I took the kids to.
Disney last week.
That was the high.
You know like watching Bradyget so excited about meeting
Mickey Mouse.
It was like this is why we didthis, this is the payoff, and
(44:16):
every day there's moments likethat.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
How important has yoga been in your healing and
your journey.
Speaker 2 (44:25):
Really it's interesting because it's
probably shifted.
Whereas, like, relying on thephysical practice of yoga for so
long was so important for me,now it's a function of like time
.
Like I've made the commitmentthat I'm going to be a father
first, so I'm not at the studiosas much, I'm not like I'm, you
(44:51):
know, when it comes down to 5o''clock, like I'm home and I'm
with the kids and I'm there forbedtime.
I, while I might not get topersonally practice as much,
that doesn't mean I'm notpracticing.
It's turned into a lot of likeself-practice at home.
It's turned into a lot of likesleep meditations, because sleep
has become a challenge uh, bothgetting to sleep and like just
getting enough sleep in general.
(45:11):
So putting on sleep meditation,meditations before I go to bed
to help me just calm down and goto sleep.
But I try to practice twice aweek.
It doesn't always happen, butat least I get to teach and in
some ways the teaching hasbecome like the yoga for me, you
know, even though I'm notpracticing when I teach.
But it is incredibly therapeuticbecause either practicing or
(45:33):
teaching, because you know, ifyou're practicing you get to
move your body, you get tocleanse, you get to be alone
with your thoughts for an hour,which we never really get to do
Um and in our studios like nophones, so no distractions, it's
just you, your mat and yourbreath for 60 minutes, which is
wonderful, and it's a way todetach from everything that
(45:53):
you've got going on, likeeverything that you had coming
into that room is still going tobe there when you walk out, but
maybe you just feel a littlebit better when you walk out, a
little bit lighter, and then youknow, when I'm teaching we
always set intentions asinstructors at the beginning of
class and usually my intentionis going to be something that
I'm working through.
So it helps me to like mentallyprocess what I'm going through
(46:14):
in my own life and then I sharethat with my students and
hopefully it lands with a few ofthem and you know we can
connect on that after class.
Speaker 1 (46:21):
Well, I was at Moda recently.
I'm embarrassed to say that wasmy first time.
But, I was there.
I loved it.
I love the space, I love theenergy.
I highly recommend it.
The ones on Dublin Road, yep,and then the new ones in
Clintonville on High Street yes.
Speaker 2 (46:35):
Just just south of Graceland Shopping Center.
Speaker 1 (46:38):
Yeah.
So if you haven't heard of Modoyet and you love yoga, I highly
recommend getting your arse andyour mat to Modo.
Whether Chad's teaching or not,I can't remember the, what's
the the name?
What's the name of your studiomanager in Dublin Road, leanne?
So I think Leanne taught andshe was lovely.
Chad, I cannot thank you enoughfor being here, and sharing your
(46:59):
story and I know there are somany men out there that are kind
of breathing a little sigh ofrelief right now like I'm not
alone.
So it's huge and it was nice tofinally lock eyes with you.
Yeah, I'm going to take one ofyour classes soon, please do.
Speaker 2 (47:11):
You can bet on that, yeah, and I mean, look, if there
are men out there that evenwant to connect.
I know you have my Instagram.
I don't know if you're gonnapost or whatever, but like I'm
open to talking about this andI've helped a lot of my friends
through this and like, if you'restruggling, like know that
that's okay and know that youcan reach out to somebody, even
if it's me.
Like if it's me, great.
(47:32):
If it's not me, that's fine too.
But like doors open, DMs areopen, Like, feel free to reach
out to me too.
Speaker 1 (47:39):
I love that and if you're still out there following
your girl, follow me on YouTube, spotify, apple or wherever you
get your podcasts.
And until next time, keepmoving baby.
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