From Valet Startup to Spiritual Awakening:. Joel Furno on Marriage, Psychedelics & Leadership

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This week, I’m sitting down with Joel Furno, the founder of Citrin—a valet company that started with $200 and a dream—and now employs over 700 people across the country. But this episode isn’t just about business growth. It’s about personal growth.

Joel gets real about the shadows behind success—depression, marriage struggles, and what happens when achievement isn’t enough—and how a single psychedelic journey cracked him wide open. We go there: the messy middle of building a company, the healing work that saved his marriage, and why true leadership always starts within.

We talk about:
⚡ How he built a multimillion-dollar company while still in college
⚡ Why employee-first culture is his secret weapon
⚡ The spiritual awakening that changed his life—and his marriage
⚡ The role psychedelics can play in healing trauma and addiction
⚡ Why “marriage coaching” might just be your next power move

This one’s deep, funny, and brutally honest—the kind of conversation that reminds you success means nothing if you don’t know yourself.

💡 If this episode lit a fire under you to get more intentional about how you lead, build, or pivot—come hang with me inside The B Lab. It’s where brave entrepreneurs go to get unstuck, sharpen their vision, and build something meaningful. Interested? Email me at [e-mail].

Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_00 (00:03):
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So I'm actually courting Lazyright now.

(01:54):
Lazy has given me a tentativeyes.
Okay, nice.
Busy basically told me to gofuck myself on DM.
He was like, sending, he goes,sending you peace and love.
I'm like, busy.

unknown (02:04):
I don't want to.

SPEAKER_01 (02:05):
Well, you have to surround him.
Like you still think you're oneof those.

SPEAKER_00 (02:07):
No, busy and I were not done.
Like, we're not done.
I don't, I am like I'm.

SPEAKER_01 (02:10):
The first no is closer to a yes.

SPEAKER_00 (02:13):
I think it's a salesperson in me.
It's like, so you're sayingthere's a chance.
You just said peace and love.
Okay, let's see here.
Let me.
That means I'm gonna put you inmy calendar for let's reach out
to him in January.
Okay, wait, I just sent this tosomeone because they were like,
I cannot.
And they were like, please tellme, I need to know the truth.
Is this real?
Was this fake or was this real?
Okay, hold on.

(02:34):
Do you think that I really knewthat?
Do you think that was fake?
Do you think it was real?

SPEAKER_01 (02:37):
Did you fake it?
I wouldn't have asked you tofake it.

SPEAKER_00 (02:40):
I wished that that would be the case.

SPEAKER_01 (02:41):
But I thought it was sincere.

SPEAKER_00 (02:42):
Do you know what's funny?
I still stand by it though.
Because when I hear that song,like I I know what dog means,
D-A-W-G.
Like I'm not, I mean, I'm fromthe streets, okay?
Maybe the streets of Lima, butlike I'm from the streets too.
Not really.
But I mean, I know what a dogmeans.
But when he says it, it felt itfelt extra.
Like, why'd you kill my dog?

(03:03):
Because it was understood thatlike all of his dogs were dying.
So like, why are we?
And that's like you killed mydog too.
I did a poll.
And do you know, surprisingly,and it's probably because it's
my demographic, that a lot ofpeople thought it was an actual
dog.

SPEAKER_01 (03:18):
What was the ratio?

SPEAKER_00 (03:20):
It was probably a close to 50-50.
But again, it's my you know.

SPEAKER_01 (03:22):
There's some people gonna not gonna admit after they
hear the actual story.
They're not gonna admit thatthey before they heard it, that
they thought it was a dog.

SPEAKER_00 (03:28):
I don't know, but I will say this Thug Nation showed
up for me.
Oh, really?
So this went viral.
So Bone Thugs picked it up.
Bone Thugs has like a podcast,and they're whoever runs the
podcast saw that, picked it up,took that clip out, sent it out.
It says, Woman asks busy aboutwhose dog died or asks crazy
about whose dog died.

(03:49):
There are like, I mean, 300comments, right?
And so one of a meme did they dothat.
I hope so.
I hope so.
So one part of Thug Nation said,it doesn't matter.
It was the best interview we'veheard from him in a long time
because she asked differentquestions.
We love it.
The other side was like, who'sthe, you know, sh she shouldn't
even, she's not even a fan.
She's cosplaying.

(04:10):
Like, she, why is she eveninterviewing this guy?
And then a couple people werelike, You're interviewing the
devil.
But I mean, Thug Nation showedout for me.
I think for on the for the mostpart, they were like, it was a
good interview.
You got you guys take shit tooserious.
Anyway, this isn't about bonebugs.
This is about Joel Ferno, theJoel Ferno.

SPEAKER_01 (04:26):
This is about us.
We haven't ever actually had aconversation up there.
Welcome to the Carrie Crosby.

SPEAKER_00 (04:30):
Yeah, but I feel like I know you.
I'm just happy to have you here.

SPEAKER_01 (04:33):
Happy to be here.

SPEAKER_00 (04:34):
So I know you through your angelic, lovely
wife, Ashley.
How is Ashley?
She's doing amazing.
Hi, Ashley.
I know you're gonna listen tothis.
I love you, I miss you.
I have your number now.
It got lost.
I don't know how it got lost,but I it's on my list to
actually reach out to her.

SPEAKER_01 (04:49):
You should do it.

SPEAKER_00 (04:50):
Is she still just this beautiful?

SPEAKER_01 (04:52):
Is there a halo like following when we're out of the
house and then the in the housethere's more fangs.

SPEAKER_00 (04:57):
But yeah, there that's usually the case, right?
What's your daughter's name?

SPEAKER_01 (05:00):
Uh we have a four and a half-year-old named Ella
and an eight-month-old namedSenna.

SPEAKER_00 (05:04):
Wait, I didn't even know.

SPEAKER_01 (05:05):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (05:06):
Hold on a minute.

SPEAKER_01 (05:07):
So two big updates.
We had Senna in uh November, andthen Ashley quit her corporate
job that she was at for 15, 16years.
Is she?
She's gone.

SPEAKER_00 (05:16):
Is she a stay-at-home?

SPEAKER_01 (05:17):
She is not.
I ship for maybe like a week.
Uh she already had a project.
She's helping a friend with aninterior design business since
they're doing host around thecity.

SPEAKER_00 (05:25):
Very cool.

SPEAKER_01 (05:26):
So uh they actually teamed up.
Uh Virginia went to C C A D andwas taking some time off to have
a family, and Ashley asked herfor help when we were doing our
house in Grandview.
And they had so much fun doingthat.
Ginny ended up starting acompany called Winnie and Co.
And Ashley's been helping herout for the last couple of
years, and now this frees her upto really focus on her passion
while also, you know, spending abunch of time with our kids.

SPEAKER_00 (05:48):
Well, her second passion, right?
Because her first passion isobviously you.

SPEAKER_01 (05:51):
She's pretty driven, like you.
So come on.

SPEAKER_00 (05:54):
So you have to live with that then.
Well, you're driven too, though.
We can't be driven.

SPEAKER_01 (05:58):
I couldn't, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (05:59):
Yeah, I wonder because my husband is definitely
different.
He is like holds it down.
He is like very structured, veryroutine-based.
He is always admiring, like, Ican't believe you're always
like, you know, he admires it,but he is not that way.

SPEAKER_01 (06:12):
Well, so there's two kinds of driven.
One uh has the crazy ADD, ADHD,OCD gene that I think you and I
probably have.
Uh she does not have that part.
She's driven, but she'sorganized and she's on top of
things and she has checklistsand it's like.

SPEAKER_00 (06:25):
I don't know what kind of driven I think somebody
would have to psychoanalyzebecause on that website I sent
you, there's a great test.
I started reading it.
I kind of I kind of like felloff because I've got so many
moving parts, but I did get theaudible.
I started like listening towhatever that was that you gave
me.
So I've started this littlething called the B Lab.
Okay.

(06:46):
It's for entrepreneurs.
It's the home for braveentrepreneurs, and it's very
exciting.
So I've been helpingentrepreneurs who either want to
fix something that's wrong, likestart to incubate an idea or
kind of scale what they'redoing.
It's been extremely exciting.
Okay.
And so that's where I'm like, Ireally want to get more smart
entrepreneurial minds in here tojust talk about their business,

(07:08):
how they do it, what they'redoing.
But I feel like thisconversation is gonna parlay
into a lot of cool things, notjust business, but trauma work,
you know, psychedelics,marriage, all the shit, which
I'm very excited about.
But just real quick, let's talkabout your business, when you
started it, where it's at today.
Just give the people in thestreets a little bit of an
insight.

SPEAKER_01 (07:29):
Yeah, I started a valet parking company in college
uh with$200.
Our first restaurant was TyphoonRestaurant in the arena
district, which is now BBR andmaybe not anything.
Did you remember?
Were you hanging out in thearena district back in the sugar
spice typhoon days?
Yeah.
Yes, in 06, that was our firstrestaurant.
I was out there parking cars andI was a sophomore at Ohio State.
Uh so I grew that throughoutcollege, and then my senior year

(07:50):
kind of got a breakthrough as Iwas kind of questioning if I
want to pursue it or not.
We went from 15 to 70 employeesmy senior year at Ohio State
after four years of kind of justgrinding and parking cars and
not making any money.

SPEAKER_00 (08:00):
Aaron Powell So most people in college are like on
their porch doing like beerbombs.
Yeah, I was that too.
Okay, but but then and you'reyou're doing your best to
survive, you're following yourclass schedule, and you're kind
of just like a lot of people arejust kind of walking around
doing what they're supposed tobe doing.
What gave you the sort of likelight bulb in your head, like,

(08:20):
wait, I can actually start abusiness right now?

SPEAKER_01 (08:23):
I think it goes back to childhood.
I didn't like how my dad wastreated working for other
companies growing up.
Uh I didn't, you know, materialthings weren't very important to
us, uh, but I didn't like nothaving nice things.
And I remember telling my dad Iwanted to be successful, and he
just drilled into my head, it'slike, that's great you want to
be successful, but make sure youput your people first.
And so I wasn't very employable.
Uh, didn't do very well workingat the mall for minimum wage.

(08:44):
Um, having to fold clothes atAbercamber, it was like a
Chinese water torture to like anADD kid.
Uh, and didn't do very well inschool.
Uh also like Chinese watertorture was sitting in a
classroom all day.
Um, so I just felt like I wasdifferent.
Um, and the idea of having towork 30 or 40 years to have to
work 60 hours a week to becomean executive in a company.

(09:04):
Um, I think in high school Irealized that wasn't my path.
And my first job in college thatI really loved was valeting
cars.
Um, but I realized that thecompanies I worked for had
gotten so big that they lostconnection with the frontline
hourly employee.
And as a result, service wasn'tgreat.
All we have in our business isthat 18 to 24 year old who's out
there every night in the rainand the elements.
And how do we get them to showup in uniform and open doors and

(09:26):
not wreck cars at scale?
Uh, the answer to that was youreally have to pour yourself
into them, make sure thatthey're the most important part
of our company.
Because that's all we have.
We don't have a great pizza or atrinket to stand behind.
All we have is that 18 to 24year old.
And so I basically reverseengineered the perfect college
job of flexible scheduling, um,trying to communicate, hey,
here's all the things we'regonna provide for you.
Flexible sketch scheduling,you're gonna drive really cool

(09:49):
cars, you're gonna learn how tonetwork, the more you talk to
people engage, the moreopportunities will open up for
you.
All we ask is that you're ontime, you look great, uh, you
offer great hospitality service,you're not here just to park
cars.
Um, and uh US now can supportyou.
And when you graduate, if youneed a letter of recommendation
from us or any support, we'rehere for you.
So it was always all it was allabout reversing that pyramid and

(10:09):
making sure the person on thefront lines who are
marginalized, who are treatedlike an expendable resource, um,
and three, four hundred percentturnover in the fast food
industry is commonplace.
How do we make sure that thatperson has a great job
experience?
And so that allowed us to offera better service and more
consistent service, and slowlyover college the company grew to
where we had that breakthrough.
Um and uh Third and Hollywoodwas actually our first big

(10:31):
breakthrough.

SPEAKER_00 (10:32):
Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (10:32):
And that was a huge.

SPEAKER_00 (10:33):
How big how big are you now?

SPEAKER_01 (10:34):
So we have around 700 employees.
We're in 14 cities.

SPEAKER_00 (10:37):
So on the surface, it feels like a pretty, I don't
want to call any business asimple business model, but it
feels clean to me.
It feels feels straightforwardand clean.
Is it what am I missing?
Like what's the easiest and thehardest parts of managing this
business?

SPEAKER_01 (10:52):
Well, think about scaling a workforce of how do
you get, again, 18 to24-year-olds across the country
now to feel like we give a shitabout them and show up to do
jobs like moving cars, washingcars, working inside car
dealerships, which is a growthvertical we've gotten into.
And so the answer is startingwith the the taking care of your
people, your people take care ofyour clients, and your clients
take care of your business.

SPEAKER_00 (11:11):
Aaron Powell So like your number one expense is the
people, like paying.

SPEAKER_01 (11:14):
Yeah, payroll is the number one.

SPEAKER_00 (11:15):
And then what?

SPEAKER_01 (11:15):
Uh damage claims, insurance.
I mean, we're moving asignificant amount of liability.
Uh we're also doing pickupdrop-off services for
dealerships.
So instead of having to make youbring your car to a dealership,
who wants to do that?
We can take a house, drop off alunar car for you, pick up your
car, bring it to the dealership.
Okay.
Um so we're doing a lot ofhigh-risk.

SPEAKER_00 (11:32):
Oh, so that's that's a that's a little bit of a
different thing than justvaleting like.

SPEAKER_01 (11:36):
Well, so yeah, in 2011, uh we we fell into a
partnership with the GermaineAuto Group, our first automotive
client.
And today automotive is about90% of our business.
We have restaurants, hotels,parking garages, parking lots
here in town, but nationallywe've scaled within our
automotive hospitality.
And the idea there is to bring ahospitality experience to the to
the service department when youcome get your car serviced and
support the the dealership tonot have to manage this hourly

(12:00):
employee workforce.
They're not that they're notvery skilled at managing.

SPEAKER_00 (12:03):
You see an exit in your future?

SPEAKER_01 (12:05):
I thought about that a lot and seeing private equity
destroy my friends' businesses.
It's good for the family officeand for the original founder,
but through the work I've doneover the last six years, um I
want our business to be aplatform.
Our tenure vision is to havethous a community of thousands
of team members who are thrivingpersonally, professionally, and
financially.
And so, how can we create thisplatform that creates wealth and

(12:28):
services to our people that theymight not have access to?
And the idea that you're, youknow, a manager in a business
and you're working your ass off,and all the equity that you're
creating is going to someprivate equity fund.
Uh, it's it's not a path Ireally uh want to go down.
I'm I'm very interested inemployee ownership structures
and and how do we just how do wecreate a structure that, yeah,

(12:49):
uh, you know, rewards our familyfor all the hard work and
sacrifice, but also all thepeople who've got us there.

SPEAKER_00 (12:53):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (12:54):
And so sharing equity and finding ways,
creative ways to structurethings with profit sharing and
things like that that can helpreally our uh employees thrive
is huge.
Uh Jeff Edwards is a mentor ofmine, and um they wrote out a
financial literacy program fortheir hourly employees.
He has 7,000 of them.
And um, people don't weren'taren't trained in in our high
school education system on howto manage money.

(13:15):
And there's a lot of predatorypractices out there.
So, how do we help train ourpeople on financial literacy?
Um we hired we partnered with anonprofit.
This came from John Ness, uh,who runs a great business here
in town.
Uh, we were talking about how dowe integrate our faith into our
businesses, and he had partneredwith a nonprofit that provides
uh chaplains.
Uh and so we have a care partnerthat's agnostic, and they go

(13:36):
around to every location everysingle week across all of our
business just to ask our people,are you doing okay?
Is there anything you want totalk about?
And the first two weeks oftesting that in Tampa, we had a
suicide save.

SPEAKER_00 (13:47):
So unbelievable.

SPEAKER_01 (13:48):
You know, I tell my friends, like, yeah, it's great
we're playing this chess gameand you know, strategy and
investors and growth andacquisitions and all that stuff.
But at the end of the day, wehave to we cannot forget about
the people on the very frontlines.
And even though that was part ofmy path, there was still a
shadow of uh deep-seated fearthat I wasn't gonna be able to
provide a great life for myfamily, that was gonna revert to

(14:08):
poverty.
Um, that's a shadow that'schased me.
And whenever we lose an accountor something disrupts the
business, that always strikesthat nerve.
Um and then just the need forvalidation and subconsciously
thinking if I built enough a bigenough company, I'd feel better
about myself.
And as uh cliche as it is, itdidn't work.
That made me feel more and moreisolated.

SPEAKER_00 (14:27):
So now we're we're heading into the we're going
into the woods.
Grab your satchel.
But I want to make sure we canwe can have a grab your knapsack
and your make sure you'rehydrated because we're heading
into the woods.

SPEAKER_01 (14:39):
But first, before we go into the cave, uh is there
anything else on the businessfront you wanted to hit on?

SPEAKER_00 (14:44):
I think you've kind of quenched my thirst.
Who who's who's John next?

SPEAKER_01 (14:47):
John that sounds uh ODW warehousing.
Just a phenomenal guy.
And Columbus has been amazing.
Um in 2019, I was scared ofraising outside capital, but uh
Cameron Mitchell has been amentor and said, hey, if you
know, got a bit great businessplan.
If you need investors, you know,let us know.
I'd love to talk to him.
Like that, I don't I don't needany uh investors.
I I was scared, or maybe it wasa pride issue of having to ask

(15:08):
wealthy people for money.
And through the inner work Ibegan, it was very obvious I
should go back to Cameron andtake him up on that.
So Cameron came in with his fouror five friends and they took
down a round of funding for amillion dollars in 2019.
That gave us the the ability tobuild this infrastructure and
get the right people in theright roles.

SPEAKER_00 (15:25):
I'd like to get Cameron in here, have him say
yes to me the entire time.
Because if he says no, I'm gonnabe like, fuck that.
He's awesome.
You said yeah, you said anythingI want, honey.
Honey.

SPEAKER_01 (15:34):
He's so funny and so so uh I think we could have a
really good off the beaten pathcomment.
He's a party, like he likes tohave fun.
And he's just a good dude.
I love that.
Um, and to see a guy who's builtuh I mean, he's got the number
one culture in the entirecountry for restaurants.
He's got 7,000 employees, andyou go to any Cameron Mitchell
restaurant in Chicago or evenLA, you talk to the bartender

(15:54):
and they know Cameron and theyfeel like Cameron like looks out
for him.
And so to have mentors that havenot just been successful
externally, but also havecultures.
I think that's what makesColumbus is really unique.
You've got Jane with Donato'swho is amazing, and you have a
lot of people who've really puttheir people first.
Yeah.
And it's led to you know,large-scale businesses.

SPEAKER_00 (16:11):
Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Do you have any female uh valet
parkers?

SPEAKER_01 (16:14):
Uh we have a small percentage of of them, yeah.
So why a wonderful young womanat Butcher and Rose downtown, if
you ever go there, she'sfantastic.

SPEAKER_00 (16:21):
Why is it so male?
Just because it's like they'rethey're getting in the cars, and
it's like it's just not really afew.

SPEAKER_01 (16:26):
How many women are interested in cars?

SPEAKER_00 (16:28):
But is it is the guy really interested in cars?

SPEAKER_01 (16:32):
Really?
Because they can drive the car.
Yes.
That was the first thing I caredabout.

SPEAKER_00 (16:37):
Oh, I get to get in this Lambo for like two minutes.

SPEAKER_01 (16:39):
But we don't think that would be no You'd be great
because you'd be out theretalking to people and car out.
I would figure it'd be lowerthat shit.

SPEAKER_00 (16:47):
I would be like going off on 270 with like ASAP
Rocky.

SPEAKER_01 (16:51):
Well that's how I got my first that's how I
started my company.
It's my first ballet job, I gotfired because I totaled a
Maserati.
That's great.
It was a really hard night.
Have you ever uh parked aBugatti?
I have not parked it.
I don't they don't let me parkcars anymore.
Except at third and hallway whenI pull up with my wife and it's
busy, I'd jump out and they'dtry to get me in the restaurant
as fast as possible.
That's amazing.
I think I'm helpful.

SPEAKER_00 (17:11):
So let's pivot.
Don't you love that word?
Let's pivot in this businessdisc Hey, let's let's um not to
boil the ocean here with all thebusiness stuff uh or make it the
long pole on the tenth, all thestupid business like chat.
All right.
Let's pivot into the psychedelicsituation because you are the
granddaddy, whether you know itor not.

(17:33):
Like literally.
So you are because the I'vetalked about this.
I've never done anything, youknow, and I may never do
anything, but I'm curious aboutlots of things.
And I never judge anything.
I'm always like, I'll try thingone everything once.
And so the couple times I'vedipped my toe into like asking
or trying to figure out thislike secret code to get in the

(17:55):
back door, because this isn'tsomething you can just Google,
like psychedelics here.
It's like, hey, do you know JoelFerno?
I'm like, well, I happen to,yes, I just so happen to know
Joel.
And it's like, do you know thesecret handshake?
Okay, so you you I say that injest, but you definitely have
made a name for yourself interms of you could sell ice to

(18:16):
an Eskimo, I think, in general,but I'm pretty sure you have
probably put a lot of people whowere like looking over the ledge
to psychedelics, like you'veprobably like talked them into
doing it.

SPEAKER_01 (18:26):
I hope not talked, I don't think anyone should be
talked into doing it.
No, they were ready.

SPEAKER_00 (18:30):
I think you probably gave, let's, let's, let's
reframe.
I think you probably gave themsort of like the you made them
feel safe, you shared yourexperience, and you probably
were that nudge that they neededto do it.
Because that's a big thing toembark on.
So, where did that start foryou?

SPEAKER_01 (18:47):
Yeah, I was struggling with depression since
middle school.
I struggled with suicidalideation and had a hard time in
middle school.
And uh that was prettyformative, and that kind of
chased me even through businessand through success.
That was that wounded middleschooler was underneath whatever
wrapping I was able to putexternally, right?
Um, and so after being on andoff ZOA for a number of years

(19:08):
and not really finding, I mean,you go to the doctor and say
you're depressed and you do a 10question checklist, and they're,
oh yeah, you're depressed,here's medication.
And yeah, you should talk tosomebody.
You know, there's probably a twoor three month wait wait list.
But that's like the currentapproach that people have access
to, which breaks my heart.
In 2018, I heard Tim Ferris andJoe Rogan talking to credible
people, people who I felt lookup to feel safe with, talking to

(19:28):
actual scientists and doctorsabout psychedelic assisted
therapy happening at JohnsHopkins and at these credible
universities.
Like, man, like mushrooms arealways like hippie shit, like
all the weird kids in highschool did that who like
followed insane call ICP.
That was like the you thinkabout like yeah, the ICP crew, I
always kind of associate thatstuff with.
And so I freak out with still alittle bit of weed.
Like, I hate weed.

(19:49):
It doesn't do anything for me,and it makes me super paranoid
and awkward.
I hate it.
And for other people, it itworks differently, and I wish it
worked differently for me, butit doesn't.
Um, but when I heard thatpodcast, I was like, man, if I
had an opportunity to do that,I'm 100% in.
But where the fuck am I gonnafind a place to do this with a
doctor in Ohio?
And so for the first time in mylife, it was like uh something

(20:09):
came to me and I didn't try tofigure out how to do it on my
own.
And so much of my life was justlike sledgehammering through
walls and trying to prove myselfand trying to make this business
work.
And I realized in hindsight thatwas the first act of surrender.
Like I've kind of put thatprayer out unknowingly.
Like I'm open to that if it wereto come to me.
Fast forward a year, and Ash andI had just broken up.
Uh, I was uh, you know, had myhead at my ass.

(20:32):
She dumped your ass in, she knowwhat was no, she wanted to get
married and it freaked me thefuck out.
So you dumped her?
And I convinced myself that shedidn't love me for the right
reasons.
Like and what was unknown to mewas she was triggering my mother
wound, which she loves hearing,every woman loves hearing about,
like that that they trigger ourmother wound.
But um, and nothing against mymother.
My mother's awesome.
But we all have, you know, thesedevelopmental things, and and so

(20:54):
there was just a fear ofcommitment.
And the other thing is I hadthese friends who were so
unhappy with their marriage,like, don't do it.
It's just it's a trick.
You get locked into a marriage,and then the person's gonna be
mean to you and and you're gonnahave a miserable life.
So I'm like, this is I realizeat the moment, this is the most
important relation of my of mylife.
And on one path, it's this PeterPan bullshit of my off in the
short north and traveling anddating around and having no

(21:17):
commitment and having an emptyfridge and just living that
batch of life, but freedom, butalso being a child.
And I knew deep down I wanted tohave a family and have kids.
Like my my parents were amazing,and I wanted to, I knew there
was a deep part of me, but I wasjust had my I was so fucking
confused.
I couldn't figure it out.
And so yeah, I broke up withAshley, and like the turning
point was her dad came over tothe house with a bottle of
bourbon.
And I thought I thought herwhole family was gonna reject

(21:40):
me.
And her dad came over and waslike, we still love you, even if
you're not with our daughter.
And so uh that was that was ahuge moment.
And um, around that same time, aday or two around that, I had
happy hour at Mikey's place withZach Weprin.

SPEAKER_00 (21:59):
Yeah, I need him, I need to get him in here too.

SPEAKER_01 (22:02):
Zach's ass in here, for sure.
Um Zach's like, dude, I'msupposed to go on the
psychedelic retreat, and I can'tgo.
Do you want my spot?
I'm like, I'm a hundred percentin.
He's like, great, because theguys who own the Oddfellows are
the ones leading the retreat,and they're here right now.
So they introduced me to theguys, and um, I filled out a
medical survey, which made mefeel good, right?

(22:22):
I'm filling out a medical, thisis like a legit place to do
this.
And there was like eight guysfrom Columbus going down.
And so they ask you, what areyour what medicine you're on,
medication you're on?
So I had to wean off Zooff.
The doctor called me to help mewean off of it safely, uh,
because it doesn't play nicewith the with the medicine.
And then it asks you to setintentions what do you want out
of this spiritually, what do youwant out of this personally, and

(22:45):
what do you want out of thisprofessionally?
So my intentions were, is Godreal or is all religion
bullshit?
I was I wasn't an angry atheist,but I had a bad day, uh just a
not great church experience andleft the church, and I was uh
conditioned to believe if youleave the church, you're leaving
God.
You're walking away from God.
So I just kind of put all that,left the church in college, and
just put all that in kind oflike a box and put it on the

(23:06):
shelf.
Didn't want to touch it.
So I'd done zero spiritualexploration, had no spiritual
connection, believed in what Icould see and feel, but other
than that, I hadn't there was nofaith, no spirituality,
everything was random.

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SPEAKER_01 (24:33):
Uh so that was my spiritual intention.
And then it was, is Ashley mysoulmate or will she break up?
And what's my purpose in mybusiness?
And so that's why.
So we we took a van down, wepull up at this beautiful
property.
Um this guy had converted an oldboy's uh like a camp into this

(24:54):
compound.
And you pull up to this guy'splace and a gate opens and you
drive in, there's wind chimesand day beds, and there's a lake
with a pirate ship he built forhis kids and this big property.
And so you just felt immediatelysafe.
Um, the guides came out veryloving, they gave you a hug.
One dude's uh his toes werepainted.
I'm like, what the fuck am Igonna paint my toes?
And I remember telling onebuddy, man, like if I come back

(25:15):
and like change my core valuesto like love or any of this
bullshit, I'm like, my parent,my partner's gonna throw me out
of the business.
And but there was a lot of fearthe week before.
I'm like, don't go, you're gonnafind out you're just a piece of
shit that you always knew youwere.
That voice was there.
It's like, you're fine.
Look, you got a business.
Like, what are you doing?
You're fine.
I wasn't even aware that I hadissues to work on.
I was just confused about thiscrossroads in my life.

(25:37):
So I'd done zero therapy or zeromeditation, which is the exact
opposite of what I recommendeveryone who's gonna start if
they're interested in it, islike do some of it, clear out
some of the other cobwebs firstbefore you just get cracked open
with uh a power, very powerfultool.
I don't think you can do itwrong.
I just would recommend, youknow, uh and since then, like
breath work, there's someunbelievable somatic Reiki

(25:58):
people in town that I've gotcome into relationship with.
Uh a friend here in Columbus whoowns Evolves Tattoo does sweat
lodges at his property for freefor the community, which he's
ordained by a Lakota chief andactually holds sweat lodge
ceremony.
That's really beautiful andintense and a good kind of rep.
Sarah Weller is a local breathwork specialist, and we've had
some deep, I brought her out todo a YPO event, and we've had

(26:20):
some deep, like people had apretty much a medicine journey
with just breath, if you do theright breath.
So over the last six years,since I've done medicine, I've
found all these othermodalities.
And like I just like to offerlike, here's all the things I've
thrown out.
I'm I'm a nut, so I had to throwthe whole book at it.
But here, whatever resonateswith somebody.
If your soul, if you have aresonance with it, and there may
be some fear, but like a callingand a curiosity, then it all

(26:42):
comes down to is making sureyou're working with a safe
guide, which has been kind ofthese some amazing people have
come into my life that areproficient and have studied for
decades how to use thesemedicines properly.
And so it really comes down tomaking sure you find the right
guide.
And since everyone's interestedin this on podcast and hearing
about it, but we're in Ohio,like where the heck do we go?
My call is just been to shareresources of where what's been

(27:05):
helpful.

SPEAKER_00 (27:05):
So what are some highlights or memories from that
first experience?

SPEAKER_01 (27:10):
So the first thing that happened, um, so that you
dual orientation, they created atheir program was unique and
they create, they use threedifferent medicines.
So they create a protocol ofthree different medicines that
uh you take pills over the overthe course of an hour.
And then as you feel it comingon, slowly you go lay down in
your own bed, in your own roomwith a weighted blanket, an eye

(27:30):
black mask, and noise-cancellingheadphones with the most amazing
soundtrack on.
And you get a little prick inthe arm, and you're off.
And it ramps you up verybeautifully.
It's not scary.
Your heart's opened to receivewhatever's coming up.
And the first image I saw wasjust this flash all the uh was
of my brothers look smiling atme, locking arms.

(27:51):
And I have two younger brothers.
I was always off doing my ownthing, so there's a lot of guilt
that I wasn't a big uhstereotypical big brother.
And they were just smiling atme, and this insight came to me
as like just focus on thefuture.
Like it's all good.
This is the most importantrelationship of your life.
And so all the shame about notbeing a great big brother was
like evaporated, gone.

(28:12):
Um, and then I, you know, thingscame up, some people I hurt came
up, but not in like in are-traumatizing, like a shameful
way, just more like awareness.
Um, and then the kind of thebreakthrough peak experience was
this voice, booming voice thatwas not mine, and words I don't
use, said, abundance will bethere.
Stop stressing it with everyounce of your being.

(28:34):
And I realized that I was soscared of losing everything.
Um, and that shadow, like wetalked about, scarce and fierce,
was there.
And I accepted it, and Iliterally saw the Joel I thought
I was, positive, negative,neutral, right?
All the good, the bad, and mysoul separate.
And this Joel, this this idea ofwho I am, like my business, all

(28:56):
the different adjectives or theresume was gone.
And the only thing left was thisinternal eternal light that um I
believed to be my soul.
And so that was the firstspiritual um experience I ever
had.

SPEAKER_00 (29:15):
So when you talk about this scarcity, this shadow
and the fear, I resonate withthat too.
I think a lot of people havethat, this internal dialogue.
I can't imagine that it'scompletely gone at this point.
So if that if it pops up hereand there, how do you handle it
different now?

SPEAKER_01 (29:32):
How has that sort of helped you to be like Well, I'll
say that the medicine experiencewas like going up to the top of
a mountain and getting clarity,right?
Seeing these things.
But we have deep groups.
I mean, trauma is passed downgenerationally in our DNA.
They're doing amazing studieswith epigenetics to say, like,
even Holocaust survivors,there's a unique DNA imprint of

(29:53):
trauma in people who haveancestors who were in the
Holocaust that has carriedthrough their DNA up to seven
generations back.
And so those things are notgoing to be solved by one
weekend retreat with anythingthat you do.
Um, so I've done a lot of workaround that with a coach, and
the a lot of the practice isjust noticing it when it comes
up and labeling it as fear.
It's just a fear.

SPEAKER_00 (30:13):
Is that where does that come from though?
So you said you were you had areally hard time in middle
school.
Where does that like, I don'tknow if you want to call it less
than or there's something youdon't know.

SPEAKER_01 (30:22):
It's just like it's just who you were.
So with driven people, we eithersee that the world's stupid and
the school's stupid and thiswhole society is like dumb, or
we think that we are.
So you might be like, school,this is fucking bullshit, right?
I think you're flipped, itflipped back on me and folded in
on me that I'm actually thebroken one.

SPEAKER_00 (30:41):
Got it.
You're the problem.
I'm the problem.
You're the drama.

SPEAKER_01 (30:44):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (30:44):
So where did the Ashley component come in with
this?

SPEAKER_01 (30:47):
So yeah, it was, it was actually funny.
It was so so you have a recorderon your chest.
Everything that's coming up, youcan speak into the recorder.
And that way you have like atranscript of what happened.
Because your ego is very sneaky.
Like the jailer will come backand try to convince you what so
it was so obvious we she was mysoulmate, I didn't speak it into
the recorder.

SPEAKER_00 (31:03):
Did you run back into Ashley's arms?

SPEAKER_01 (31:05):
So it came back and I said, babe, I had all these
insights, but I didn't get itinto answer for us.
It said we're time.
I think I came up with a storythat our I convinced myself it
that she came up and our timewasn't over yet, but I wasn't
sure if she was my soulmate.
So I'm sure she loved it.
And we're gonna decide in thisretreat we're gonna whether
we're gonna break up or getmarried.

SPEAKER_00 (31:26):
No pressure.

SPEAKER_01 (31:27):
No pressure.

SPEAKER_00 (31:27):
And she's like, I'm in.

SPEAKER_01 (31:28):
She knew the whole time.
You guys are way smarter than weare.
Oh, she's gonna be.
I think one thing that was hugefor her in her 20s is she'd got
yoga trained with her mom.
And like doing the two days ofsilence and the retreat and like
the inner work.
She had done inner work before.
I had done none.
So she like she was almost like,like, go do your thing and uh
try not to blow up your life inthe meantime.
Cause like I'm like, just dude,make a decision.

(31:50):
Like I'm we're getting older,and if you don't want to be with
me, just say so.
Like, kind of matter of fact,you know.
Um, so we go down and I'mcalling the dude like a couple
days before runs the program.
I'm like, I'm gonna break upwith this chick, man.
She's driving me fucking crazy.
Like, I'm I'm done.
And he's like, if you do breakup with her, this will be the
most loving thing for you guysto do, is you can do it.
So don't do anything until youget your ass down here.

(32:10):
We're driving down.
She's like, I don't know why I'mcoming down here.
You're the one with all thechildhood trauma and stuff.
She's like, I don't have anytrauma to work on.
Which is a recurring thing,which is which is hilarious.
So we get down there, and theway they set it up for couples
is you do an hour and a half inseparate rooms.
And then they ask you, Would youlike to see your partner?
You can't take it personally ifthey say no, good that they're

(32:32):
working through their own stuff.
Right.
So we both said yes.
The facilitators brought ustogether, and we were propped
face up 18 inches apart withthese like back braces in the
bed.
And we take our eye masks off atthe same time.
And it was like looking into hersoul.
Like all the walls, all of theego, all the things were
removed.
And my my journey was like allabout a bigger calling for my

(32:53):
life.
And so I'm like, I saw this hugevision for what my life could
be, and she was just like socalm.
She's like, Shhh, stop talking.
She's like, I saw that, we'regonna I'm gonna have your
children.
I she's like, I saw that too.
But I saw that my purpose is tohave your children.
And she said, We're gonna have adaughter, and her name's gonna
be Ella.
And she's like, I saw thisbeautiful image of a tree, and

(33:16):
our parents were the roots, andour kids are the branches.
That's right.
And her mom's actually takenthat and drew it, uh, did an art
piece in our own.
Were you guys just crying?

SPEAKER_00 (33:24):
I think I'm crying.
I'm crying.

SPEAKER_01 (33:26):
Even thinking about conversations, like it was four
or five hours, and the next daywe had to have a lot of hard
conversations.
But it it moved all of our wallsdown, so we're not putting our
walls up and our inner childaren't throwing spears, and so
it took all the walls down.
And the feeling of being fullyconnected after that last wall
was removed and there wascomplete vulnerability was
unlike anything I everexperienced.

(33:47):
And so um we our souls gotengaged on that date, and Ashley
had that date engraved.

SPEAKER_00 (33:56):
That's so cool.

SPEAKER_01 (33:56):
I think it was 531.
What was that?
She had engraved inside.
6, 7, 19.
So she had that soulmate.
So we went through that, andthen I came back within a week
and then asked her dad'spermission.
I had complete clarity at thatpoint.
And when I see when I havecomplete clarity, I just run
really hard at it.
Uh the next week I asked herdad's permission to marry her.
Um, we decided we're gonna getmarried in Cabo, which is where

(34:17):
we went originally, like ourfirst trip together.
Um, I went back to my partner'slike, guys, we gotta raise
capital.
And so I went back to camera andstarted the fundraising, and and
uh so I and then I got my I wasoff antidepressants.
Um I started working with DougBrackman, who wrote the book
Driven that I shared with you.
Um I realized in the journey,it's like I need to work with a
coach.
The medicine is just not enough.
Like, I need to have somebody toreally help me.

(34:40):
And he started having memeditate, and I would just be
crying like every day on the onthe meditation map.
And I would I think when youbecome more aware, you realize
how the quality of my thoughtswere of judging myself, judging
others.
And uh to have to sit withyourself is like one of the
hardest things to do.
So developed a meditationpractice.
Um, we bought our dream home inGrandview, started renovating

(35:00):
it, it was completely tornapart, and uh, and we got
married in January.
Oh, and I'm raising the round offunding, and we go from making a
little bit of money to burninglike a hundred grand a month
because we hired the rest of theteam.
We hired the rest of our orgchart, rest of our leadership
team.
So a ridiculous amount of thingshappened in six months.
Almost, and that almost brokeme.
Everything was awesome for likethree or four months.
Like, uh, you know, I wasunpacked for my depression, and

(35:21):
like um, you know, I saw thisbig vision, and everything's
gonna be we're gonna be shittingrainbows, and then this fear
swung back in.
And luckily, I had Dr.
Doug to catch that.
Uh it was like going down a likespending your whole life looking
at a river, like rapids, like,man, I really want to go down on
a kayak.
And you finally have the courageto push yourself in, and it's
fun at first.
And then you start like, oh mygod, I could die.

(35:42):
And even all these good thingswere happening to me, it felt
internally I was more aware ofmy shit and how dysregulated I
was.
So all these different, my wholemy body was freaking out.
Uh, and that's that's where truetrauma trauma healing comes from
is stabilizing your centralnervous system and letting go of
shit that you've stored.
It's not a mental issue, it'sthe fact that our body holds the
trauma on and we put thesethings in boxes.

(36:03):
Yeah.
And um, they manifest negativelyin our life if we don't have the
courage at some point to facethem.

SPEAKER_00 (36:08):
How often are you do you like what's a recommended
psychedelic cadence for someone?
Like, do you do this annually?
Do you do it?

SPEAKER_01 (36:17):
So when I that first year I did it four times, once a
quarter.
And then after that, it's likeonce or twice a year for annual
tune-ups.
Um, and a lot of it wascommunity-based, friends wanting
to go, so putting togetherretreats.
And so I I did it as a as a partof that.
I've since moved into othermedicines like ayahuasca, which
is a whole different animal.
This one's very kind oftherapeutic and very
comfortable, and your heart'sopen and everything has a
rose-colored lens.

(36:37):
Ayahuasca will make you feeleverything you've ever done to
anybody.
Really?
Beautiful, very uh never had auh concept for it, but you feel
the intelligence of this likedivine feminine energy was
fucking terrifying.
Like the true power of thefeminine in ayahuasca.
And so that was, you know, anyuh lingering parts of my ego I

(36:58):
was holding on to, she justcompletely wiped that out.
Um, so um, so yeah, themedicine's a great tool.
I think it is probably a littlebit over-glorified.
Uh, and there's a lot of ways todevelop to to grow spiritually
and to do trauma healing thatdoesn't involve having to take a
medicine.
Um, to me, it's an awesome tool.
And I think in five years you'llbe able to go to, you'll be, and

(37:18):
this is like this in my friendgroup.
Like, oh I'm gonna go toayahuasca next week and in Peru.
Great, that's awesome.
Yeah, you'll be able to do MDMA,psilocybin, which is magic
mushrooms and other medicines ata at a retreat.
It'll be, I think in five yearsit'll be very common.
And it already is like that inAustin and in the coasts, but in
Columbus, Ohio, you know,there's there's only a handful
of it out there, yeah.
Right?
We're like stuck in the state.
But there's probably I know atleast 80 people in Columbus

(37:39):
who've done uh similarexperience.

SPEAKER_00 (37:41):
Oh, so many people who've come on the show have
done it.
And so I'm I'm just like I godeep.
Like I just like get like I livevicariously through your
experiences.
It's so crazy.
So let's go back to like thewhole idea of marriage and
therapy.
And I think there is, I thinkwe've gotten better with the
stigma around therapy, but Ialso think when you're married,

(38:01):
there's still this like, I don'tknow, everything's great.
Smile for the camera, put it onInstagram, polish everything.
Like you were saying before weturned on the mic, you know,
it's kind of like having like atune-up, but like until the like
you don't want the car to breakdown the side of the road.
But I feel like that's howpeople view therapy.

(38:22):
They they view it as this veryreactive thing that you do, and
I'm not gonna say too late, butbut you wait too long.
And so if if there was like apreemptive thing where therapy
was looked at as more of likeum, you know how when you're
Catholic and you have to do thatthing before you get married,
what do they call it?
We had to do that.
Uh there's some kind of thingthey take you to for a day.

(38:43):
But anyway, something that isproactive and like ongoing,
where you actually work togetheras a team, we're missing that.

SPEAKER_01 (38:54):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (38:54):
I I just think that stigma of therapy and the stigma
of working.

SPEAKER_01 (38:58):
Yeah, we we only it's like admitting that our
marriage is broken if we go dotherapy.

SPEAKER_00 (39:02):
But it's not true.
No, it's not.

SPEAKER_01 (39:04):
Because every single paradoxically will actually be
the thing that will break yourmarriage.
Yeah.
I didn't know this uh untilrecently, but the word spouse in
Greek translates to necessaryadversary.
I mean our spouses aren't makesare aren't supposed to make us
happy.
They're designed so that webecome the person we're supposed
to be.
But yeah, we're looking for lovefrom the other person when
that's already a birthright.

SPEAKER_00 (39:25):
And it's like I see you out there, like, you know,
trying to act like you're allshiny and perfect, but it's like
crack it open because like whatthe the the realness of your
relationship and how youovercome things and become
mirrors for each other andbecome better and whatever,
that's the good stuff.

SPEAKER_01 (39:41):
It is.
And it and it's actually becomesfun.
I mean, it's it's hard, it's sohard.
And the worst is when things areactually going well and you have
the marriage coaching.
We like to call it marriagecoaching.
Yeah, and uh things are goinggreat, but there's something
that bother you, and yeah, fuck,I gotta bring that up today.
Right.
So we have an agreement we don'tblindside each other in the in
the coaching call.
But to take a step back, I tellall my friends, like, look, you

(40:03):
wouldn't you wouldn't sign a$10,000 contract or prepare your
financials or do your taxeswithout a professional guide who
spent their whole life doingthat.
And yet the most dynamicrelationship that exists and one
that has the uh biggest forcemultiplier on our happiness and
our overall life, we're gonnathink we can navigate this
dynamic relationship on our ownwithout somebody who's only

(40:25):
studied this their entire life.

SPEAKER_00 (40:28):
It's so romanticized too.
You know, it's like it's so andthere can be, there are romantic
elements to it, obviously.
But it's like it's a negotiationa lot of the time.
You know, it's like kind of Idon't know.
I just think of people who justown it and stop being so and the
ones that really do try to actso it's just it's funny to watch

(40:51):
to me because it's just such afarce.

SPEAKER_01 (40:54):
It breaks my heart.
I mean, I just wish it was moreum transparency.
More transparency.
I guess it just takes peoplestepping up and sharing, like,
hey, yeah, our relationshiplooks great, and it is great.
We've got to do some really funshit together, but there's a lot
of hard work that had to go.
Like we've had to face ourdeepest wounds.
And as you you mentioned theword mirror, we're mirroring
each other's trauma.

SPEAKER_00 (41:13):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (41:14):
Whether it's a father wound or mother wound or
whatever it is, but there's uhparts of ourselves that we
haven't acknowledged.
And so I think that's anotherpart of the of marriage coaches.
You have to be willing to doyour own work and take
accountability.
If you're triggering me, that'smy issue.
And it's at least the questionof why is this triggering me.

SPEAKER_00 (41:30):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (41:30):
I have to own that.
Right.
I could, you know, I wish, youknow, Ash would be nicer
sometimes, but I still have toown why is this triggering.

SPEAKER_00 (41:36):
Every husband in the world, which is their wife,
would be nicer, trust me.
And we could give you some waysfor where we'd be nicer too.
That's the crux.

SPEAKER_01 (41:42):
What's interesting is I don't know how this was
with your marriage, but um Ashand I's love language are like
juxtaposed against each other.
So I like touch and words ofaffirmation.
She's not really into either oneof those, but she likes her love
languages are acts of serviceand quality time.
Well, I have ADD, and so I'mjust bobbling around all day,
forgetting to lock doors, andthat she takes that as a
personal offense.
So we were just like locked intothis like thing where she would,

(42:07):
I wouldn't serve her the way sheneeded to be served, or be, you
know, a good roommate, leave thetowel on the floor, whatever it
is, right?
Piss her off.
So then she would be scornfuland uh you know brash with me,
which would push me into my caveand withdraw, which would piss
her off even more because nowthere's no quality time, I'm not
present with her and all that.
So um, Dr.

(42:27):
Doug actually, uh one of ourfirst calls, I was I was working
with, I think the best way to domarriage coaching, introduce it,
is to one person to do it ontheir own first, and then they
invite the other person in.
And so I was like, look, I'mgonna work on my own shit, and
then I invite her on the call.
It's like, hey, why don't youjoin Doug so you can help Doug
help me help you?
Because I'm clearly pissing youoff all the time.
And so we get on the call andshe just goes off for like 20

(42:49):
minutes about all my grievances,her grievances against me.
And Doug just listened to her.
He's like, all right, Ashley,when Joel does something to piss
you off, you have two options.
You can grab the knife and stabhim like and put him into a
shame loop, but she alreadyfeels like an asshole piece of
shit anyway.
So you just trigger that.
Or you can hold the lantern ofawareness.
And your job as the divinefeminine, as the queen of your

(43:09):
house, is to hold up the lanternso Joel be can become aware so
that Joel can help help you.
That's your job.
Because we're dumb.

SPEAKER_00 (43:17):
You guys really are.
Like, I mean, it's I don't Idon't know if it's dumb, but
you're just so fucking one likeone-dimensional sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 (43:26):
It's just like we're playing checkers.
You guys are playing afour-dimensional chess.

SPEAKER_00 (43:30):
Oh my god, but I can only imagine from the male's
perspective how challenging thatis too to deal with the dynamics
of the queen.

SPEAKER_01 (43:40):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (43:41):
You know?

SPEAKER_01 (43:41):
When you guys have to own your queen.
The feminine is not weakness.
No, it's actually all yourpower.
Oh, no, for sure.
Have you studied the polarities?

SPEAKER_00 (43:48):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (43:48):
Not deeply, but like knowing that like there's
feminine and masculine inside ofus and balancing those
correctly.
Um, but the feminine is where weget all of our wisdom and power
from.
It's a queen who runs theempire, not the king.
Of course.
We just organize and do what youtell us to do.
Right.
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (44:03):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (44:03):
But that's where amazing where both are stepping
into like their highest versionof masculinity and femininity.

SPEAKER_00 (44:08):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (44:08):
That's when power.
But that that stair step to getthere is pretty tricky.
Oh, for sure.
A lot of stumbling and it'smessy, and you just have to
stumble through it.

SPEAKER_00 (44:16):
I think it's funny sometimes where I'm like, this
is truly like you're in a cornmaze with another human being
and you're like trying to likefigure this shit out.
Right?

SPEAKER_01 (44:24):
You know, like it's like and then kids into the clay
and go, holy shit.

SPEAKER_00 (44:27):
And that's another thing too.
Like, I don't know what you guysare dealing with, but it has to
be similar.
You have zero time.
I mean, like, there's no time.
You're you're literally likeships passing and trying to
survive and like juggling anddoing all that stuff.
And so it's, I can see, I mean,it's where people just totally
get away from the other and anddon't even know.
Like you have to really stayconnected and do those things.

(44:50):
Like, let's put coaching on thecalendar, let's make sure we are
spending, and you want to saydate night, how cliche.
That shit's important.
Whether it's a schedule, whetherit's let's just call it like a
30-minute sit down and hang out,bang it out, whatever you need
to do, but like come togethereven if you don't feel like it.
Because I I will also you knowadmit to that.
I don't feel like, you know,having this deep conversation or

(45:12):
like doing whatever.
I didn't feel like going totherapy the other day.
I did it.
You know, you it's not alwayshow you feel in the moment.
It's like you're settingyourself up in an intentional
way and you're doing those repswhen you don't feel like it, so
that you don't totallydisconnect with yourself or the
other person because you'rereally doing a disservice to the
kids if that happens too, andyourself.

SPEAKER_01 (45:33):
How's your path been?
Because I mean, I just knew youas the badass running SOS with
the you know great marketing andall of that.
And then it seemed like at somepoint you started to kind of
like do the work.
Has that been something in thelast five or six years similar
to me, or is that somethingthat's been a part of your life
for longer than that?

SPEAKER_00 (45:47):
I've always tried to like be, I guess we I I've tried
to kind of like the yoga stuff,some meditation.
I went to Bali um for 35 days bymyself.
That was really eye-opening.
Did the yoga training withreally, really talented uh
Alicia Chung.
She's incredible.
That was really cool.
Um, and then I think when themarriage, like the infertility

(46:08):
stuff really started to likeerode the marriage, then the
therapy came in with that.
But then I was doing my owntherapy.
Um, I don't know.
So I just I guess I'm pretty, Ijust have enough common sense
back to what you said.
Like, how are we doing this onour own and just winging it?
There's gotta be people outthere who can help set the tone

(46:30):
and like make this a betterexperience or a more elevated
experience.
And so I just try to do what Ican to like improve the
atmosphere for myself, for him,for our kids, you know.
But it's it's definitely um, youknow, it's always a work in
progress.
I'm always looking forsomething.
Like, again, like I said, Idon't necessarily like, I'm not

(46:52):
someone to jump into thepsychedelic thing.
I'm very curious about it.
I would all I would like to doit with him potentially, but
then I get nervous about likewhat is gonna come up?
Is this gonna freak me out?
Like just the regular fears,right?
I'm always trying to evolve.

SPEAKER_01 (47:06):
Well, there's so many cool tools out there and
resources.
And Columbus has a hotbed oflike a spiritual community of a
lot of really good resources.

SPEAKER_00 (47:13):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (47:13):
When's your next journey?
We don't have one booked.
I'm I'm good.
I think at some point you gottastop looking for shit to heal
and just live life.
And so yeah, like I said, theannual tune-up um is is always
good for me and alwaysinsightful.

SPEAKER_00 (47:26):
I love that.
Um, what else?
Anything that you would be thatyou would leave here and be
like, damn, why didn't wediscuss this?

SPEAKER_01 (47:32):
Ibogaine.

SPEAKER_00 (47:33):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Okay, let's talk about ibogaine.

SPEAKER_01 (47:36):
Yeah, so um there is a particular psychedelic I'm
really excited about.
Um, and I've been doing a lot ofwork around.
It's called Ibogaine.
It comes from a root in Africacalled the iboga shrub.
It's been used in healingceremonies with the Buiti tribe
and in Gabon, Africa forthousands of years.
And I think six years ago, theydiscovered that ibogaine, which
is a molecule inside of iboga,can be used to treat addiction.

(47:58):
And it got swept up with inNixon in the 60s with all
psychedelics being uh moved toSchedule One, which means it has
no medical purpose and it'shighly addictive, which none of
these really qualify for.
Um so fast forward to the lastcouple of years is I got invited
to join a nonprofit board herein town called the Reed
Foundation, and the founder losthis son to addiction in 2019

(48:18):
after spending hundreds ofthousands of dollars sending his
son all over the to the bestclinics, and the best clinics
have a 10% recovery rate.
Um, Ibegaine is a very gnarly 12to 18 hour procedure that's a
psycho, it's a hallucinic, butit's a it's a gnarly 18 uh 18
hour trip.
On the back side of it though,it resets your brain from all

(48:39):
the damage done by either TBI orCT, which a lot of athletes are
dealing with.
And it basically does a fullreboot of your central nervous
system and and as you of yourbrain.
It also a lot of people reportkind of a life review of seeing
like kind of your life.
Uh and I've talked to dozens ofNavy SEALs who've sent them been
sent to Mexico to do getretreatment after being on

(49:01):
shoved on pills through the VA,who's doing the best they can
with what they have.
Um and a lot of these guys withthese big tattooed like SEALs,
badass dudes are like, man, Ithought war fucked me up, but it
was my relationship with my dad.
And I begin to help me go kindof go back to the the the
original thorn and extract itbecause addiction is just a
byproduct of of trauma.

(49:21):
And so um over the last year,the Reed Foundation has helped
um put a bill out in Texas forresearch and Texas with Rick
Perry, who ran Texas for 16years, the most conservative
dude within the mostconservative state passed a$50
million research bill to studyIbogaine three or four months
ago.
And I had the opportunity to beat the bill signing in the state
house at the Texas in Austinwhile the governor was signing

(49:43):
the bill, which is prettysurreal.
Yeah.
Uh and so now uh Rick Perry andBrian Hubbard, who are leading
this initiative, have formedAmericans for Ibogaine, and uh
myself and Jason Block went downto Austin to set up the business
the right way using EOStraction, which I think is a
great tool for businesses.
Um so we set up the AFI withthis, and uh we're working on an

(50:03):
18-state coalition to join Texasto do one unified FDA study with
the hope that this will bemedicalized uh in the next six
years.
Rick Perry has publicly gonedown, he went down to do
Ibogaine twice in Mexico.
His brain was five years youngerafter doing MRI scans at
Stanford.
So from even just like anon-addiction, just you know,
he's like, I never had anyaddictions.

(50:24):
I always thought this was hippieshit.
You know, you got it's justhilarious that a freaking that
Rick Perry ball people areendorsing psychedelics.
Right.
But this one in particular, withhow bad the um uh more people
have died of opioids in the last10 years than every major war
we've been in since World WarOne.
And so uh the current treatmentmodel is not working.
And actually, pharmaceuticalsare recommending pharmaceuticals
like Suboxone to treataddiction.

(50:46):
So you're you're treating anopioid with an opioid.
This is an organic plant thatwas put here by God and if done
properly in the right settingwith the right precare and
follow-up treatment.
Um the stats are eighty, eightyto ninety percent of people come
out removed of their cravingsand completely reset without
having to go through 18-monthwithdrawal cycles so that I can
go into treatment, uh,completely reset and renewed.

(51:09):
Will you ever do that?
You know, uh I'd be open to it.
Right now, it's usually a it'sfive to seven, 10 days they
recommend going down uh, youknow, for the pre-care and
getting settled in and thendoing the 12 to 18 hour
experience and then the you knowresting and doing integration
work.
So it's really a seven or tenday commitment and being away
from the girls at this point.
Like uh I've been blessed withso many good resources.

(51:29):
Um I feel like I should do itconsidering I'm spending a large
chunk of time helping uh withadvocacy work, um, which by the
way, Ohio passed a bill toresearch it through Justin
Bizzuli, he's a 34-year-old uhstate representative from
Portsmouth, Ohio, who had thecourage to put forward a bill.
And so that Ohio has passed abill to be able to research
Ibogaine.
So it's my deepest hope thatthis becomes available as an

(51:52):
alternative treatment model,that psychedelics and somatic
work and all these other thingsadjacently can be a separate
path for healing that'savailable for people versus just
the Western approach, which Ithink works for many people and
is far better than doingnothing.
But to have um to have Ibogainebe able uh or the fact that
we're sending veterans to Mexicoto heal from the war trauma that

(52:13):
we caused um is uh is an issue.
Yeah.
And so uh really excited aboutthat particular one because not
only does it provide thepsycho-spiritual therapeutic
benefit, but also the physical,physiological healing of your
addiction, craving, andresetting your brain.
Brett Farb just went down to doit for his CTE and his uh
Parkinson's.
So showing early promise forParkinson's and MS because of
the way it resets your brain.

(52:34):
And so we're only advocating forthis to be moved to schedule two
so it can be researchedproperly.
So if anyone's interested in uhJoe Rogan and uh was on, had uh
Rick Perry and uh Brian Hubbardon back in February, I believe,
and that kind of sparked anational movement around
Ibogaine.
So that's something that'sreally um close to my heart and
something I that I I thinkeveryone should be aware of
what's happening.

SPEAKER_00 (52:54):
Man, you are just a man about town, aren't you?
You just got a lot of shitpopping off.
My God.
Well, Joel, thank you so muchfor having me.

SPEAKER_01 (53:03):
We were supposed to have coffee for like the last
six years and we never did.

SPEAKER_00 (53:05):
You know, I think we'll just follow this up with a
coffee.
Yeah, that's how good we'll doanother.
I mean, you know, I think youwere trying to get me to join
the YPO or whatever you want tocall it.
What's that called?

SPEAKER_01 (53:14):
YPO.

SPEAKER_00 (53:15):
Yeah.
I was like, yeah, I just thenwas an EO too, that's good.

SPEAKER_01 (53:18):
So I think peer groups are really important for
entrepreneurs.

SPEAKER_00 (53:20):
They are, but they might have to be around people.
I'll come to the next one.
Thank you so much, Joel.

SPEAKER_01 (53:27):
Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_00 (53:28):
I love and I love you, Ashley.
I know you're still looking.
And if you're still out therefollowing your girl, follow me
on YouTube, Spotify, Apple, orwherever you get your podcast.
Until next time.