Getting pregnant isn’t always simple. And for 1 in 6 women, infertility is part of the story — and it’s messy, isolating, expensive, and absolutely life-changing.
In this first episode of our April Infertility Series, I sat down with three BADASS women — Gwenna, Cassi, and Megan — who know this journey all too well.
Gwenna spent 12 years trying it all — 8 rounds of IVF and endless shots to no avail. But in the end, two incredible surrogates helped bring her two boys into the world.
Cassi never expected to struggle after having her first son naturally. But four and a half years of trying, and many miscarriages later, she found herself in a world of acupuncture, functional medicine, and asking questions nobody could seem to answer.
And Megan — mama to 7-year-old Miracle Maren — opens up about miscarrying alone at home, failed IVF, and the ache of wanting a sibling for her daughter.
This episode is raw. It’s emotional. It’s full of heart, and hard-earned wisdom from women who’ve lived it.
Infertility isn’t the whole story — but it sure as hell shapes you. Make sure to share this episode with someone who could benefit from hearing these stories. This community is here to support you no matter if you are in the thick of it or experienced infertility years ago.
Stay tuned for the next episode dropping Wednesday, April 16th at 8am with Jess, Jessie and Allie. And until next time...Keep Moving, baby.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello friends, welcome to the very first
episode of our infertilityseries.
This one is incredibly close tomy heart and I'm so damn proud
to finally put it out into theworld.
This month is packed with raw,powerful conversations, expert
insights and deep connection.
We're dropping new episodesevery Wednesday and Friday
(00:20):
throughout the month of April.
Today we're sharing the storiesof three remarkable women, each
one a warrior in her own right.
Their journeys throughinfertility, loss and motherhood
are deeply moving.
If you're tuning into thisseries, thank you.
Your presence here matters Ifinfertility or child loss isn't
something you've personallyexperienced.
(00:41):
I hope these stories help youshow up with more empathy,
compassion and understanding forthose who have.
And if you have walked thisroad whether you're still in it,
coming out the other side orcarrying the weight of it
quietly, I see you.
I hope this series reminds youto share your story or simply to
(01:02):
reach out to someone else whomight need a reminder of their
strength.
So here's the ask Please sharethese stories with your loved
ones, with anyone who might needto hear these stories or better
understand this journey, and ifyou're listening and feel moved
, please take a moment to sendlove to the people in this
series who have opened up theirhearts and histories to help
others feel less alone.
It's not easy, but it'spowerful beyond measure.
(01:23):
And now I bring you Gwenna,cassie and Megan Ladies, from
the bottom of my heart, thankyou for sharing the most fragile
, sacred parts of yourselves.
That is the true definition ofstrength, and it is certainly
the true definition of a totalbadass.
And until next time, keepmoving, baby.
My name is Gwenna.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Until next time, keep moving, baby.
My name is Gwena.
I have two boys that were bornvia gestational carriers.
One was my sister-in-law, onewas my good friend, Emily.
I did IVF like six times onmyself, two more times for
(02:02):
retrievals and then wetransferred into the surrogate.
So eight times I did all thethings that you can possibly
think of and it ended up workingout because I didn't put a
limit.
We started trying as soon as wegot married and from that day
until we got our second son itwas 12 years.
(02:22):
I have PCOS, which is polycysticovarian syndrome, so ovulation
was not something I was doingroutinely.
So it's extremely difficult toconceive when you're only
ovulating maybe twice a year andyou don't know when that
ovulation is occurring.
So once I did some of themedications, we were able to
find out when I was ovulatingand that was all fine.
(02:44):
But then it turned out to beunexplained fertility, which is
pretty frustrating.
I'd rather them just say youwon't have a baby, like that's
not going to happen for you, butwhen you don't know why, you
just you just have to keeppushing.
So they were never able todetermine why.
Because I make these beautifulembryos, they just would not
(03:04):
implant in me.
The journey impacted me the most, I think, in my marriage um Joe
, my husband and I.
I think we became closer.
He I'm lucky enough that he's amental health therapist, so he
let me just grieve and do mything.
(03:28):
And he was just supportive andI told him multiple times you
know, you can leave, like youcan, I would be totally fine.
That's really emotional.
You can leave, it's fine, Iwon't think any different of you
.
And he's like, no, I'm notleaving Because I think, think
truthfully, he could haveimagined his life without kids,
(03:48):
cause he's, he's a man, and Icould not.
I, it wasn't even an option inmy mind to not have kids.
So I think that it worked bestfor our marriage and I know it's
not always like that foreverybody, but it was for me.
(04:08):
Our marriage became stronger.
But I think one of the darkestmoments in infertility I can
think of two One happened allthe time when it was time for
either a positive test or yourperiod to start.
You inspect your toilet paperall the time so I would wipe and
look for any signs that I wouldstart my period and that first
(04:30):
sign of blood was absolutedespair.
Every time it was worse thanhearing the results on the phone
because you see a physicalmanifestation of you're not
pregnant.
Another dark time.
I did get pregnant once and Imiscarried before six weeks.
(04:51):
My pregnancy hormone leveldidn't do what it was supposed
to do, so they were worried thatit was an ectopic pregnancy.
I, being in the medical field,totally know what that means and
what you need to do with anectopic pregnancy.
Me in my mindset, when ithappened to myself, I said you
(05:11):
can let it rupture, because Idid everything.
I did everything for this baby.
I, this is, I want to bepregnant.
So it can, just it can rupture.
And doctor my doctor at thetime, dr Costa, said Gwena, you
know that that's not compatible.
Like you can't do that.
And I was like no, it canrupture and then you can either
(05:32):
save me or I can just die Likeit's fine.
So I was to the point where sheprobably should have admitted
me for a minute, but I was notokay, it was pure agony.
So I think I would have justrather have not got pregnant.
A specific pieces of advice Ihave for patients going through
infertility I would say becareful who you tell about your
(05:58):
journey, because sometimes youdon't want people asking a
million questions so you cantell everyone in the world.
But just be prepared Likethey're going to ask you a lot
of questions.
I initially had told my parentsand my very best friends and
then you know, by year five I'mlike I got to start telling
people.
So everyone does it on theirown time.
(06:20):
Just, you know, be careful iswhat I guess is my biggest piece
of advice.
Secondly, it's totally fine tonot go to the baby showers.
You don't have to go becauseyour mental health is more
important and it's so mentalwhen you're going through
infertility.
One of my very best friends washaving a baby during that time
(06:40):
and I was absolutely so happyfor her.
But you can't help but see yourgrief in that time and I was
absolutely so happy for her, butyou can't help but see your
grief in that time.
And I mean we're talking.
This girl has been my friendsince I've I'm five and I told
her I'm like I, I can't, I can'tdo it, and she totally
understood because she's myfriend and if they're not your
friend they won't understand,but if they're your friend they
(07:03):
will understand.
So you don't have to go and youdon't need to make, you don't
need to feel guilty about it,which I'm trying to tell myself
about, but I still feel guiltyabout Always seek a second
opinion.
If you have one doctor who saysyou know this isn't going to
work for you, try anotherpractice.
I consulted with four or fivedifferent places.
(07:28):
I ended up going with threedifferent practices and I don't
regret it.
What one doctor says can'thappen, another doctor can make
happen.
So you should totally seeksecond opinions and it also
depends on what your issue is.
Let's say you have a low AMHlevel and you're having trouble
producing embryos.
(07:48):
There are places, not inColumbus, but there are places
that that's their specialty.
So you need to seek out thoseplaces.
Don't just take the word of onedoctor.
People will say well, justrelax and have fun and just go
get drunk.
I can tell you if that was thecase I would have been pregnant
(08:11):
like multiple times, and that'snot the case.
So feel free to tell them toshut their face because you
should not have to deal withthat.
That is so annoying.
Don't ever tell a fertilitypatient oh well, you know, just
go out and have fun and go onvacation.
I can't do that.
That does not work for me.
It makes me so angry whenpeople tell fertility patients
(08:32):
that it sends me next level.
I can't even talk about it.
I made a list.
There was one more.
Oh, okay, reproductiveendocrinologists are only as
good as their lab.
If their lab shows amazingresults, it doesn't really
(08:55):
matter too much about the doctor.
I don't care if they're mean, Idon't care if they're the
fuzziest people in the world.
Pay attention to their lab.
Their lab is the most important.
Never say never.
I do you think when I gotmarried I would have said, oh,
I'm going to go through 12 yearsof infertility, do eight ivfs,
all of the inseminations in theworld, all the injections and
(09:17):
I'm gonna have two other womencarry my babies.
Absolutely not.
But here I am and that's whathappened because I didn't close
the door.
But when it's something Iwanted with every ounce of my
being so, I was not remotelygoing to stop and we were
definitely to a pointfinancially where you know we
got to stop.
I didn't care.
(09:37):
I'll lose my house, I'll livein a van down by the river,
that's fine.
I want my kids.
And just never say never isprobably the biggest as far as
our introduction into surrogacy.
I was actually in the middle ofdoing an egg retrieval and we
(10:01):
were going to do it againbecause why not?
Let's just run into that brickwall and just keep going.
But I was at work and I get aphone call from my sister-in-law
, which was odd because I'm likewhy is she calling me at work?
And she's like hey, I want tocarry a baby for you.
And I was like shut your face,like this is no.
(10:23):
She's like no, I've alreadytalked to my parents.
I talked to my OBGYN and hesaid I'm a good candidate.
She had a good pregnancy withmy niece and she's like I want
to do it and your brother saysthat's fine, like he doesn't
care.
And I was like I hadn't even.
I had not even given it athought.
(10:45):
I was just thought it was meagainst everyone else.
So that's what started thegestational carrier for us was.
She reached out and said shewanted to do it and I was like
well, don't tell me that.
And back out, like I will put ababy in you.
That's what I said and wetransferred to in her and my
(11:12):
oldest held on and we got him.
Now for the second, I have abrother and a sister myself.
I cannot imagine life withoutmy brother and sister and I
really wanted my son to have asibling.
I didn't care what it was, Iwanted him to have a sibling
other than our dogs, like that.
He needed a sibling and I put aplea on Facebook to my friends
(11:38):
and I was like, if anyone hasever, cullen was a four at the
time.
I was like, if anyone has everconsidered carrying a baby for
somebody and you think you're agood candidate, please reach out
to me.
Do not reach out to me and sayI would, but I can't because of
this.
Shut your face, you're not evenon the radar.
It's easy for you to say, ohyeah, I'll carry a baby for you,
(12:00):
but I'll have a uterus Wellshut up.
Would you really do it so?
So I said do not come at me andsay that because I I'm not at a
good place, I'll punch you inthe face.
It's what I said on my text.
Why would people say that?
Like people would say that, orI would do it, but I had an
ablation.
Okay, you can't do it, you'renot helpful, so don't even
(12:20):
acknowledge it.
If you can't do it well, Idon't even acknowledge it.
If you can't do it Well, Idon't know how much longer it
was, maybe a month or two.
It's 11 o'clock at night.
This is a core memory.
I'm laying in bed with my son,putting him to sleep and my
phone rings.
It's my friend, emily, and I'mlike something's wrong.
It's 11 o'clock at night.
Why is she calling me?
I answer, and she's like hey, Iwant to carry a baby for you.
(12:44):
I'm like have you been drinking?
And she's like, actually, yes,but I really want to do it.
Like I've talked to my parents,she did the things and she has
three daughters and hadbeautiful pregnancies.
She's like I actually likebeing pregnant.
And I said are you done havingkids?
She's like, yes, I want no morekids.
And I was like I'll put a babyin you, because I was actually
(13:05):
in the process of doing aretrieval again and because I
told Joe I was like let's do aretrieval just in case something
happens, so that we have theembryos on deck, basically.
And so February, a few monthslater, we transferred and got
pregnant with Pax and he's nine.
(13:27):
So they literally fell into mylap.
But I think I find much power inmanifestation.
So I don't know if that didanything or what, but I had two
people step up to the plate andwant to do it.
I actually had a third personstep up and Pax was probably two
(13:48):
and we have spent well beyond Iquit counting at $150,000.
It's a lot of money and she'slike I would like to carry a
baby for you.
And this girl I would say shewas 25, maybe she had a daughter
(14:08):
, perfect candidate.
But I said I know you want tohave more kids and if something
happened and I took that awayfrom you, I would not be able to
live with that and so I turnedher down because can you imagine
?
Like no.
So I I told her no, but I'vehad three people say they wanted
(14:31):
to do it.
So that's how surrogacy fellinto my lap.
I'm not saying I wouldn't havegot there on my own, necessarily
, but we we had looked at likeuh, children's has this.
They used to have this thingcalled the adoption academy
where you would.
They kind of went overinternational and domestic
adoption and what that means,and you know they went through
(14:54):
everything.
So I think adoption was next ondeck for us.
I didn't even think ofsurrogacy because I didn't think
that was something I could do.
I'm just, I'm not a richKardashian, like you say, like I
, how could I do that?
Well, I did, and it was notnear as intimidating as I
(15:15):
thought it would be.
There was a grieving processwhen and there still is for me I
don't think I'll ever get overthe fact that I won't feel a
baby inside of me.
That's a hard pill.
(15:47):
Do you have tissues?
Good Lord Carrie, do you havetissues?
Good lord Carrie.
I am a sonographer.
I do ultrasound.
So for my first son, I got toscan him in utero, which was so
(16:09):
weird because I was able todetermine the gender from that
scan and I was like oh my gosh,oh my gosh, and Joe's like
what's wrong?
And I'm like I see a penis.
I see a penis and I'm yellingin the room and I thought
everything looked abnormal,because you lose rationale when
it's your own kid.
Everything was fine, he's fine.
Um, I mean, he's 14, so he'snot super nice right now, but
(16:30):
everything's fine.
But I had to disconnect,absolutely.
I had to disconnect because, assomeone who does OBGYN
sonography, I was seeing peoplepregnant every day and I saw
people who didn't see the valuein it and I saw people who
(16:51):
didn't want it.
But I also saw the other sideof it, people who wanted their
babies, and I had to seepregnant women every day.
So I had to totally disconnectfrom our pregnancies because I
saw them.
When I scanned Lorraine, myfirst surrogate, I was like,
(17:11):
okay, there's the baby's abdomen, like I'm talking to her, like
this is her child, and I justcouldn't connect Because if I
connect and something happens,I'm not able to cope with that.
So when my oldest was born, hewas born C-section and I see him
(17:33):
and he looks 100% like me, likeI could have spit him out, and
I'm like, okay, that's mine.
And I didn't feel thatimmediate bond that everyone's
like, oh, you're going to justexplode.
No, there was no exploding.
There was like, okay, crap, Igot this kid, he's mine and I'm
(17:56):
taking him home.
So about two months later I'min the ER and a patient, this
80-year-old woman, I'm scanningher gallbladder.
She goes, oh honey, do you havekids?
And I start sobbing and I'mlike I have a son.
Like I had no clue, I had a son.
So it took me probably twomonths before I bonded with him.
(18:17):
With the second one it was alittle better because I had been
there, done that.
Emily, who's also a sonographer, my second gestational carrier.
She would take a picture oncein a while and send it to me,
but I was still verydisconnected on him as well.
So so I feel like it was hardto have much of a grieving
(18:39):
process because I just kind ofwas like that's outside, that's
not in my life.
And then I got them and Iconnected finally and now I feel
like I can connect in my jobmore, but that's the only way I
could continue.
But I think there's alwaysgoing to be a grieving process
because I don't think I'm evergoing to be able to get over the
(19:02):
fact that I couldn't do that.
I mean, what's a woman supposedto do?
That's what we're supposed todo.
That's what you're told oh, youget married, you have kids.
I got married but I couldn't dothe rest and it's very, it's
hard.
But to have two women who didthat for me, what do you get
(19:25):
them for Christmas?
Surrogacy is a big deal in myhouse.
I feel that the sacrifice thatLorraine and Emily made needs to
be celebrated Like this is youdon't just do that for people,
and there are some people who doit, but that just doesn't
happen every day.
So my boys absolutely know I'lltell Pax where'd you grow?
(19:48):
He's like Emily's vagina, orhe'll say Emily's uterus.
And they do know where theycame from.
And they do know that my oneson had to do a timeline of his
life and his first picture washim as a day five embryo looking
like a little Ritz cracker onhis timeline.
I was like no one else is goingto have a picture like that and
I think now he's probablyembarrassed by it because you
(20:10):
know he's different.
He thinks he's different.
Um, but it will always becelebrated in our house when
it's their birthday.
Every year, their birthday andmother's day, I text lorraine
and emily and I say thank youfor today and emily's like can
you stop?
Like you don't need to keepdoing this.
I said I'm doing it the rest ofmy natural life, so get over
(20:32):
over it.
That's what's going to happen.
But yeah, we every, every yearand I've had, you know, cullen
tell Lorraine my first arrogant,you know, thanks for growing me
, thanks for growing me Likethey deserve that celebration.
So I don't ever want it In myhouse.
I didn't want it to ever be asecret, because that's a huge
(20:53):
thing to do for somebody andthere's not a lot of people in
the world who can say they everwould do something like that?
I had to get life insurance onthem when they were pregnant
because you can die, and theydid.
They knew this could happen andthey did it for me.
Like that is freaking huge, sohuge.
(21:14):
So, yeah, it's celebrated in myhouse for someone who's going
through fertility now and thereyou're, in the absolute darkness
.
There was a quote that I sawfrom Sheryl Crow, of all people,
and it said not I maybe notexactly, but it said, little
(21:36):
souls will find their way to you, whether they're from your womb
or not, and I firmly believethis With my patients who are in
the pit of darkness.
I'll manifest it.
I'll do whatever I need to do,but it will happen.
You just don't give up.
Whether it's from yourbiological baby or someone's
(21:59):
caring for you or you'readopting, you will find your,
your soul.
They will come to you.
You just have to keep fighting.
And it's so hard to do becauseand that's easy to say, because
it's not like money's, andthat's easy to say because it's
not like money's you knowinfinity, you, you.
There are times where, yeah,you have to cap it, but just
(22:20):
don't stop fighting because theywill find you.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
And I 100 percent believe that, and you, might be
totally fine through the wholething.
So just whatever it is, it is,I just appreciate you being here
and I hope you know that likeit's's going to have a really
big impact on someone.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
I almost didn't reach out, and then I thought if it
were me, I was searching forthis and I didn't find it.
Yeah see no I know, okay, Ifeel a little weepy.
Yeah, that's what.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
I'm saying and let me get some tissue just in case,
because we had to.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
Okay, that'd be great .
I'm Cassie, and my husband andI were married for four years
before we started began a familyand we tried for eight months
before conceiving naturally, andwe were blessed with my son
Graham, and following that wehad tried to get pregnant again
(23:16):
and really struggled.
So we had a miscarriage filledwith years of infertility.
Essentially so we had pursuedIUI and what I was frustrated
with was I knew that I was ahealthy individual, that I'd
carried a baby to term andconceived naturally, and I
(23:39):
couldn't find the root answerfor why infertility was
happening or why we struggle toeven conceive, and so I became
almost fixated on a journey tonatural holistic health.
I wanted to determine why Iwasn't getting pregnant, what
was the root cause, and it ledme down a path of functional
(24:00):
medicine and acupuncture.
But we struggled for four and ahalf years before we conceived
my daughter and then followed byanother miscarriage.
There were really two concisedark memories in my mind around
(24:21):
our journey to conceive, and onewas we were on a family
vacation and one of mysister-in-laws announced she was
pregnant, and it should bejoyous, and it was, but it was
deeply painful for me who was inthe thick of trying to get
pregnant and I remember justgoing into the shower and crying
(24:43):
and just wanting to be alonewith my thoughts in that moment
and then another time I thinkabout.
You know, I was raised from afamily of women with stiff upper
lips.
You tackle the problem and ifyou can't change it, you adjust
(25:05):
your attitude and what I hadlearned in this journey.
It was very uncomfortable formy mom to sit in it with me and
so I leaned a lot on my sister.
But my mom, although her advicewas trying to be helpful and
(25:29):
uplifting there was a phoneconversation.
I know what street I was on, Iknow where, what house I was by
and I was in despair Like Iwanted to expand our family.
And I was in despair Like Iwanted to expand our family and
the need that I had to do thatand the urge I felt she wasn't
understanding and instead ofjust sitting with me in that
(25:51):
despair, she wanted to pull mealong.
And you know it's an urge youhave when somebody you love is
hurting to urge them on versussitting on that bench of despair
with me.
And that's what I wanted from mymom and others during that time
, the advice that I have foranybody going through this or
(26:16):
wanting to support a friend isto acknowledge it.
I mean, sometimes it felt likesuch an isolating event and I
wanted to.
I wanted somebody to see what Iwas going through or ask or
inquire, but there's a reallyrespectful way to do that and a
time and a place and a not atime and a place to do that.
Um, and honestly, I think thatwomen are way better at it than
(26:40):
men are, and so an example is wehad had a loss and even my
brother-in-laws did not know howto acknowledge it.
You know it's, it'suncomfortable you don't want to
bring up somebody else's painbut one of my friends who, his
sister, had gone through a lotof miscarriages, he just pulled
me aside and said you know, I amso sorry and coming from a man,
(27:05):
it felt so healing that youknow it wasn't just my husband
who I was able to hear that youknow those words from, but a
male friend.
It was so touching and just tohear somebody acknowledge how's
your journey going.
If you want to talk about it,great.
(27:25):
If you don't, that's fine too.
But I'm thinking of you.
A random text, a check-in, acall, a conversation?
You want to go on a walk.
You know, I mean just beingwith that person and sitting
with that is just so helpful.
I mean just being with thatperson and sitting with that is
just so helpful.
I think the most positive thingto come out of this is an
(27:47):
empathetic understanding of ahealth journey that you can't
diagnose.
Wow, that's enough to just sendyou, you know, sideways.
Another thing is patience withmy children now.
So you know, kids were sicklast week.
(28:08):
It happens Disrupts schedules,they act up, it happens they're
children.
But the deep gratitude that Ihave that they are here and I
get to be their mom adds anadditional layer of patience.
I think in my parenting that Ican't take for granted.
(28:33):
So the way it changed or alteredthe course of our relationship
meaning my husband and I wouldbe you know we had moved away
when we were married and so wehad just this really cocoon of
time together and we had a lotof challenges because we moved
to different cities but we hadeach other to depend on and I
think that really set thefoundation for this journey
(28:54):
because it was us two and itwasn't always a happy cocoon,
you know, during the fertilityjourney, but it was this
reliance that, no matter what,we cherished each other beyond.
And I am just, I am reallylucky to have the husband I have
.
I mean, he is so supportive,but he's the oldest of four boys
(29:20):
, so sometimes, like, the femaledynamic gets lost in
translation and that's okay.
You know, that's prettyendearing actually.
But he was raised in a bigGerman Catholic family.
His dad is one of nine boys.
He is the oldest of four boysand I would go, you know, as we
(29:41):
were early dating in you know20s.
I would listen to his extendedfamily, who were smart, talented
women, talk about their kids.
So you know I was looking forideas or business opportunities,
you know, like nursing degrees,or I thought how interesting
that they don't talk aboutthemselves much, they talk about
their much.
They talk about their, theirkids and their families.
And now I understand that as amom, you know, um, but it was
(30:06):
almost a okay.
You know, you married Cassieand now she can't produce kind
of thing.
What's wrong with me issomething defective.
Am I not woman enough?
And those were the lies.
I told myself a lot, a lot, andto even hear them out loud it's
painful because I know that'snot accurate, but it felt true,
(30:30):
at that time you really have toadvocate for yourself around the
health care you want.
I've had to advocate for myselfon the miscarriages I want.
They're eager to do all sortsof interventions and I'm like my
(30:51):
body is smart and intuitive.
It knows whether it's fosteringa pregnancy or in the
miscarriage process.
You know you just really haveto advocate for the way you
massage that.
I guess they want to shove youtowards IVF.
At least in my case they werejust shoving, shoving, shoving
(31:13):
and I'm like but I'm healthy, Icarried a baby to term.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
Why is why are we like pushing that yeah?
Speaker 3 (31:18):
Should we not?
Is there a root cause, maybe,and I I think it's.
It's still a great mystery.
You know, left in the world, weknow what the weather is going
to be a week from today, but wedon't know about fertility.
Speaker 4 (31:31):
Yes, I mean, it's like on one thing, a really
beautiful thing, that I don'tnot everything in my life is
sorted out and it's still amystery, but I mean, geez,
louise, my name is Megan.
I have an almost seven-year-olddaughter named Maren, and it
was quite the journey to get toher.
(31:53):
We were very blessed that whenwe first got married, jay and I,
we were totally shocked that wegot pregnant right away.
It was very much a shock andquickly found out that that was
not the case.
We had our first loss at aboutsix and a half seven weeks and I
(32:15):
thought how could this even bepossible?
And went through one of thehardest times ever and that was
that um miscarriage that we Ihad alone at the house.
Um, no one ever prepares youfor something like that, to
experience it by yourself.
(32:37):
Um, and I don't even blame myhusband because he doesn't know
how to help in that situation.
So we got through everythingwith that.
A couple months later we werepregnant again and same
situation.
Unfortunately, we lost thatchild as well to another
(33:02):
miscarriage.
But I at least had the power andthe knowledge of what to do
when that happened a little bitmore.
I had the resources and thepeople to support me a little
bit better that time.
But none of them are easy.
It never gets easier.
So at that point I said, okay,knowledge is power, I'm going to
(33:22):
the experts to try and havethem help me out here.
And of course, I was ofgeriatric age, which we all hate
that word.
But so we went and we gottesting.
Everything looked really goodand we decided that we were
going to try an IUI.
(33:43):
And, lo and behold, we have ourmiracle Marin, and she truly is
a miracle, because I love thestory.
The day that she was, the daythat we went in for our IUI, was
my grandma's birthday, august16th, and my grandma is just an
(34:07):
incredible person.
We just lost her about a yearand a half ago.
But I have no doubt in my mindthat that is one of the reasons
that she, maren, is here today,because the day that that
happened was her birthday.
So that just gave me peacealong the journey, and it was a
scary journey.
I thought we lost her again atabout eight, nine weeks.
(34:29):
We had a huge scare, huge bleed.
My mom rushed down fromCanfield.
It was traumatic, but there wasthat little heartbeat and yeah,
and then Maren's born.
Life's great, let's do thisagain.
So guess what?
We get pregnant right away, wemiscarry and I'm just like third
(34:55):
time, this can't be happening.
And it happened.
And then I said I'm done again,we're going back.
So we did another round of IUI,thinking it worked.
It didn't work and then so wewere like let's jump to the
better alternative, the betterchance, more testing.
(35:15):
We ended up doing two rounds ofIVF with one fertility clinic
here in Columbus.
We got millions of eggs butnothing ever went to blast.
We couldn't even transfer anyof those embryos and at that
point I was pretty deflated,pretty defeated.
My age is creeping up.
So then we decided to switchfertility clinics, went to
(35:39):
another fertility clinic theygot.
He was extremely confident,thinking we can do this still.
But again we got all the way.
We had one embryo that was notof great quality and and
unfortunately it did not take.
So I said I'm done, that's it,I'm done.
And COVID happened.
And lo and behold, we saidlet's try one more time.
(36:01):
We got pregnant.
We thought this is it, it wasCOVID, we're going to have
another baby and miscarriagenumber four.
So for me, 40 happened and Ijust, I was done with shots, I
was done with DNCs.
I was, I was just, I was, I wasdone with shots.
I was done with DNCs.
I was just, I was done.
And Maren asks every day, allthe time, why do I not have a
(36:25):
brother or a sister?
And it's really hard becauseshe can't understand the journey
yet, but we tried really hardto give her a brother or sister.
We tried really hard and everyday when I look at her I'm like
what would it be like to haveanother one of you?
Or what would another one belike?
(36:45):
Would you be different?
Would you be the same?
And it's hard, fertility isjust.
It's really hard.
But we're also blessed becauseevery Mother's Day hard, but
we're also blessed because everyMother's Day I get to celebrate
Mother's Day and I think aboutthat all the time that I get.
(37:07):
I get to be called mom and Iget called it a lot every day
and it drives me crazy sometimes.
But in those moments when I'mlike can you please not say mom
one more time?
I also know in the back of myhead how blessed I am to be
given that title, because it isthe greatest title that I will
ever be given.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
So during COVID was that just a natural pregnancy?
Fuck dude.
Speaker 4 (37:29):
And we had a heartbeat like a little teeny,
like they thought we went in.
They were like yes, and then Iwas like IUD.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
I'm done and there's a lot of power in that.
Speaker 4 (37:46):
I mean, it's just it just there was, and there was
peace After like six months.
There was so much peace in thatbecause I knew I and we talked
about adoption and we talkedabout all the things we talked.
My sister offered eggs becauseit was my eggs that ended up
being something.
That was that they thought wasthe problem and my husband
couldn't get past certain and Iget it every.
(38:06):
You have to be both on board.
I've realized that too.
Whatever you choose to goforward with or to stop with,
you have to be on board, and Iwas ready like I was, like this
is the closest we get my sister,my daughter looks just like my
sister's four children.
She could be one of theirchildren, but my husband would
never have gotten past the factthat this is like my child with
(38:26):
yours.
He could not, and you that'swhere it stops.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
And that's, and that is totally fine.
Speaker 4 (38:32):
Yeah, that is, and he is valid in his feelings and
his thoughts.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
And then you know yeah, it takes them a little
while, exactly, exactly, sorrythat you're the basic gender.
Speaker 4 (38:43):
We're sorry.
How did this journey withinfertility impact my mental
health?
I mean, there's no doubt I wentinto some dark, deep, deep
times and it affected my mentalhealth but, more importantly, my
relationship, because I was insuch a dark place but my husband
(39:07):
was dealing with it indifferent ways and not to the
same degree, because I'm comingout of a surgery yet again or
having another procedure done totry to have another child, or
having another procedure done totry to have another child and
my body is just physically kindof rejecting all of this.
So mentally I mean I definitely.
(39:28):
But I think the biggest thingwith my mental health journey
for me because this is just thetype of person I am was to talk
about it.
I just am the person.
I want to talk about it.
I want other people, I lean onother people in those situations
.
But I also think, with thisjourney, I think the biggest
thing too with anybody's mentalsituation is, with anything you
(39:52):
have to deal with it, the wayyou want to deal with it and the
way you grieve and the way thatyou deal with it, because
there's no shame if you don'twant to talk about it.
But that is just the way that Ifound peace for myself was to
(40:12):
get it out there, was to knowthat other.
I was not alone in thissituation, because and so many
people talk about it, but it canfeel so incredibly lonely.
And why me and why us?
But there's a reason.
There's a true reason why wehave one amazing, crazy, almost
(40:32):
seven-year-old and a dog thatshe calls her sister you know,
because that's her sibling, sothat's okay.
A dog that she calls her sister.
You know, because that's hersibling, so that's okay.
During this whole infertilityand loss that we went through,
one of the core memories that Ihave is that very first
miscarriage, when the doctor Idon't understand why, looking
(40:55):
back basically asked me howwould you like to miscarry?
Oh, I don't know.
You know I, at a bar, I meanlike drinking, I don't know.
Like, I mean I, how would Ilike to miscarry?
I, I don't.
And I said, well, you're theexpert, can you tell me I never
had gone through this.
(41:15):
And so she, she was like, well,I think it's best that you
don't have surgery and that wejust do this naturally, and so
we do a pill and you will justmiscarry naturally.
So I said okay, notunderstanding much, and at this
time didn't know, and Iliterally had a pill inserted.
I went home, it was two o'clockin the afternoon and she said in
(41:40):
a couple hours you're going tostart to feel a ton of pain and
a ton of cramping, and thenyou're going to start to feel
like you're basically givingbirth with a miscarriage.
And I guess I just didn'tconceptualize what she was
telling me at the time and so Iwent home and it was all that
and then some.
It was pure hell.
(42:02):
I was on the bathroom floorbecause I was sweating so
profusely and my husband was atwork because I don't think we
neither of us understood thepower of what was about to
happen.
But I will never forget and Istill like, look at that
bathroom floor and laying thereand having to experience that by
(42:25):
myself and asking myself did ithappen already?
Is this as bad as it's gonnaget?
And then it got worse and Istill, even when it got really
bad, I'm like is this it?
I just I didn't even.
And so I told myself from thatpoint on that I would never do
this alone like this again.
I will have my people by me,because I thought I was strong
(42:46):
enough to do it by myself andthat I will never do it like
this again.
I will never do this at home bymyself, without the use of
other.
I will undergo some type of asurgery to, if this, God forbid,
ever happens again, whichunfortunately it did.
So, um, yeah, that is my corehorrible memory from all of this
(43:11):
Advice for people going throughit.
Um, again, it's everybody's ownjourney and what they, but my
advice is is to start to talkabout it and and and asking
people, if you, if you trustthem, if you know that you want
their advice, because sometimeswe ask people knowing we truly
(43:35):
don't want their advice, but yetwe ask it anyways, and then
we're like shit, why did I justask for it?
I really didn't.
Or, people just give theiropinion, whether they're asked
it or not.
And I also think, too, goingthrough the journey, knowledge
(43:56):
is power, and you ask thequestions to these.
If you are these, if you aregoing to a doctor, you deserve
your time in that office.
You deserve to ask any question.
You take as much time as youneed, because you need to know
all of the information, and ifthey're not going to give it to
you, then go to someone who does, because that's not fair to you
(44:21):
.
Because, yes, these doctors aredealing with this all the time,
every day, day in and day out.
This is just what they do allthe time they see people who are
dealing with infertility.
But your journey is yourjourney, and what you're going
through in that moment youdeserve that time.
(44:42):
What positive things have comeout of this experience?
I met one of my best friendsbecause of it.
We got to.
We were actually connectedthrough a friend from high
school who went throughfertility issues, who I knew as
well, but we ended up bondingover the fact that we both just
(45:05):
had one child.
But we met at Crimson Cup on arandom like Tuesday night,
because we were both looking tonanny share and lo and behold,
she was literally experiencingand going through the exact same
things.
I was going through differentas far as in, like you know,
weight or the reasons ofinfertility, but we decided that
(45:26):
we think this will work.
We'll share our home with eachother for the next five and a
half years.
Our kids are best friends.
They could never have anotherchild.
We could never have anotherchild and I think that that's
probably number one for me isthat we, you know, in sharing as
much as we did with each other,it got us through that time as
(45:47):
well, too, because they haveeach other and they're like
siblings, and it's one of thebiggest blessings of my life.
If there were things that Icould say that people asked me
or to not say to people goingthrough this journey, yes,
number one for sure, if I had tohear one more time but you work
out, you're in great shape,you'll get pregnant, you're not
(46:08):
that old, it's okay.
I was going to lose my mindbecause in so many ways it has
nothing to do with that.
It drove me crazy all the time.
And then the other one, nowthat we have one child, it was
the question, and I used to, toa fault, I used to say this to
people too.
(46:29):
You just kind of don't knowwhat to say, but with one it
would be like are you ready tohave another one?
And I'm really honest withthose people and I tell them
flat out.
I say we have one miracle childand she truly is a miracle, and
I wish we could have beenblessed with more, but we were
not able to.
(46:51):
How did this infertility journeyhave an impact on the
relationship with my husbandimpact on the relationship with
my husband?
Um, I think the biggest thingfor me, and I think a lot of
women deal with, is that men arejust never going to fully
understand what we're goingthrough.
(47:12):
There's just and there's justno way.
(47:45):
There's just no way and so, oryou have done all these things
to your body to try to have achild, they will just never
experience and to no fault oftheir.
You know they can't help that,but but it definitely put a
strain because those, thosefeelings, just it just won't
(48:06):
ever, they'll never be able tofathom it because of that mic
drop.
Speaker 1 (48:11):
You're right.
My name is cassie and I am onein six my name is megan and I am
one in six.
Speaker 4 (48:17):
My name is Megan and I am one in six.
Speaker 2 (48:21):
My name is Gwenna and I'm one in six.
You are a warrior, you're abadass and you are not alone.
Hello friends, welcome to the very first
episode of our infertilityseries.
This one is incredibly close tomy heart and I'm so damn proud
to finally put it out into theworld.
This month is packed with raw,powerful conversations, expert
insights and deep connection.
We're dropping new episodesevery Wednesday and Friday
(00:20):
throughout the month of April.
Today we're sharing the storiesof three remarkable women, each
one a warrior in her own right.
Their journeys throughinfertility, loss and motherhood
are deeply moving.
If you're tuning into thisseries, thank you.
Your presence here matters Ifinfertility or child loss isn't
something you've personallyexperienced.
(00:41):
I hope these stories help youshow up with more empathy,
compassion and understanding forthose who have.
And if you have walked thisroad whether you're still in it,
coming out the other side orcarrying the weight of it
quietly, I see you.
I hope this series reminds youto share your story or simply to
(01:02):
reach out to someone else whomight need a reminder of their
strength.
So here's the ask Please sharethese stories with your loved
ones, with anyone who might needto hear these stories or better
understand this journey, and ifyou're listening and feel moved
, please take a moment to sendlove to the people in this
series who have opened up theirhearts and histories to help
others feel less alone.
It's not easy, but it'spowerful beyond measure.
(01:23):
And now I bring you Gwenna,cassie and Megan Ladies, from
the bottom of my heart, thankyou for sharing the most fragile
, sacred parts of yourselves.
That is the true definition ofstrength, and it is certainly
the true definition of a totalbadass.
And until next time, keepmoving, baby.
My name is Gwenna.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Until next time, keep moving, baby.
My name is Gwena.
I have two boys that were bornvia gestational carriers.
One was my sister-in-law, onewas my good friend, Emily.
I did IVF like six times onmyself, two more times for
(02:02):
retrievals and then wetransferred into the surrogate.
So eight times I did all thethings that you can possibly
think of and it ended up workingout because I didn't put a
limit.
We started trying as soon as wegot married and from that day
until we got our second son itwas 12 years.
(02:22):
I have PCOS, which is polycysticovarian syndrome, so ovulation
was not something I was doingroutinely.
So it's extremely difficult toconceive when you're only
ovulating maybe twice a year andyou don't know when that
ovulation is occurring.
So once I did some of themedications, we were able to
find out when I was ovulatingand that was all fine.
(02:44):
But then it turned out to beunexplained fertility, which is
pretty frustrating.
I'd rather them just say youwon't have a baby, like that's
not going to happen for you, butwhen you don't know why, you
just you just have to keeppushing.
So they were never able todetermine why.
Because I make these beautifulembryos, they just would not
(03:04):
implant in me.
The journey impacted me the most, I think, in my marriage um Joe
, my husband and I.
I think we became closer.
He I'm lucky enough that he's amental health therapist, so he
let me just grieve and do mything.
(03:28):
And he was just supportive andI told him multiple times you
know, you can leave, like youcan, I would be totally fine.
That's really emotional.
You can leave, it's fine, Iwon't think any different of you
.
And he's like, no, I'm notleaving Because I think, think
truthfully, he could haveimagined his life without kids,
(03:48):
cause he's, he's a man, and Icould not.
I, it wasn't even an option inmy mind to not have kids.
So I think that it worked bestfor our marriage and I know it's
not always like that foreverybody, but it was for me.
(04:08):
Our marriage became stronger.
But I think one of the darkestmoments in infertility I can
think of two One happened allthe time when it was time for
either a positive test or yourperiod to start.
You inspect your toilet paperall the time so I would wipe and
look for any signs that I wouldstart my period and that first
(04:30):
sign of blood was absolutedespair.
Every time it was worse thanhearing the results on the phone
because you see a physicalmanifestation of you're not
pregnant.
Another dark time.
I did get pregnant once and Imiscarried before six weeks.
(04:51):
My pregnancy hormone leveldidn't do what it was supposed
to do, so they were worried thatit was an ectopic pregnancy.
I, being in the medical field,totally know what that means and
what you need to do with anectopic pregnancy.
Me in my mindset, when ithappened to myself, I said you
(05:11):
can let it rupture, because Idid everything.
I did everything for this baby.
I, this is, I want to bepregnant.
So it can, just it can rupture.
And doctor my doctor at thetime, dr Costa, said Gwena, you
know that that's not compatible.
Like you can't do that.
And I was like no, it canrupture and then you can either
(05:32):
save me or I can just die Likeit's fine.
So I was to the point where sheprobably should have admitted
me for a minute, but I was notokay, it was pure agony.
So I think I would have justrather have not got pregnant.
A specific pieces of advice Ihave for patients going through
infertility I would say becareful who you tell about your
(05:58):
journey, because sometimes youdon't want people asking a
million questions so you cantell everyone in the world.
But just be prepared Likethey're going to ask you a lot
of questions.
I initially had told my parentsand my very best friends and
then you know, by year five I'mlike I got to start telling
people.
So everyone does it on theirown time.
(06:20):
Just, you know, be careful iswhat I guess is my biggest piece
of advice.
Secondly, it's totally fine tonot go to the baby showers.
You don't have to go becauseyour mental health is more
important and it's so mentalwhen you're going through
infertility.
One of my very best friends washaving a baby during that time
(06:40):
and I was absolutely so happyfor her.
But you can't help but see yourgrief in that time and I was
absolutely so happy for her, butyou can't help but see your
grief in that time.
And I mean we're talking.
This girl has been my friendsince I've I'm five and I told
her I'm like I, I can't, I can'tdo it, and she totally
understood because she's myfriend and if they're not your
friend they won't understand,but if they're your friend they
(07:03):
will understand.
So you don't have to go and youdon't need to make, you don't
need to feel guilty about it,which I'm trying to tell myself
about, but I still feel guiltyabout Always seek a second
opinion.
If you have one doctor who saysyou know this isn't going to
work for you, try anotherpractice.
I consulted with four or fivedifferent places.
(07:28):
I ended up going with threedifferent practices and I don't
regret it.
What one doctor says can'thappen, another doctor can make
happen.
So you should totally seeksecond opinions and it also
depends on what your issue is.
Let's say you have a low AMHlevel and you're having trouble
producing embryos.
(07:48):
There are places, not inColumbus, but there are places
that that's their specialty.
So you need to seek out thoseplaces.
Don't just take the word of onedoctor.
People will say well, justrelax and have fun and just go
get drunk.
I can tell you if that was thecase I would have been pregnant
(08:11):
like multiple times, and that'snot the case.
So feel free to tell them toshut their face because you
should not have to deal withthat.
That is so annoying.
Don't ever tell a fertilitypatient oh well, you know, just
go out and have fun and go onvacation.
I can't do that.
That does not work for me.
It makes me so angry whenpeople tell fertility patients
(08:32):
that it sends me next level.
I can't even talk about it.
I made a list.
There was one more.
Oh, okay, reproductiveendocrinologists are only as
good as their lab.
If their lab shows amazingresults, it doesn't really
(08:55):
matter too much about the doctor.
I don't care if they're mean, Idon't care if they're the
fuzziest people in the world.
Pay attention to their lab.
Their lab is the most important.
Never say never.
I do you think when I gotmarried I would have said, oh,
I'm going to go through 12 yearsof infertility, do eight ivfs,
all of the inseminations in theworld, all the injections and
(09:17):
I'm gonna have two other womencarry my babies.
Absolutely not.
But here I am and that's whathappened because I didn't close
the door.
But when it's something Iwanted with every ounce of my
being so, I was not remotelygoing to stop and we were
definitely to a pointfinancially where you know we
got to stop.
I didn't care.
(09:37):
I'll lose my house, I'll livein a van down by the river,
that's fine.
I want my kids.
And just never say never isprobably the biggest as far as
our introduction into surrogacy.
I was actually in the middle ofdoing an egg retrieval and we
(10:01):
were going to do it againbecause why not?
Let's just run into that brickwall and just keep going.
But I was at work and I get aphone call from my sister-in-law
, which was odd because I'm likewhy is she calling me at work?
And she's like hey, I want tocarry a baby for you.
And I was like shut your face,like this is no.
(10:23):
She's like no, I've alreadytalked to my parents.
I talked to my OBGYN and hesaid I'm a good candidate.
She had a good pregnancy withmy niece and she's like I want
to do it and your brother saysthat's fine, like he doesn't
care.
And I was like I hadn't even.
I had not even given it athought.
(10:45):
I was just thought it was meagainst everyone else.
So that's what started thegestational carrier for us was.
She reached out and said shewanted to do it and I was like
well, don't tell me that.
And back out, like I will put ababy in you.
That's what I said and wetransferred to in her and my
(11:12):
oldest held on and we got him.
Now for the second, I have abrother and a sister myself.
I cannot imagine life withoutmy brother and sister and I
really wanted my son to have asibling.
I didn't care what it was, Iwanted him to have a sibling
other than our dogs, like that.
He needed a sibling and I put aplea on Facebook to my friends
(11:38):
and I was like, if anyone hasever, cullen was a four at the
time.
I was like, if anyone has everconsidered carrying a baby for
somebody and you think you're agood candidate, please reach out
to me.
Do not reach out to me and sayI would, but I can't because of
this.
Shut your face, you're not evenon the radar.
It's easy for you to say, ohyeah, I'll carry a baby for you,
(12:00):
but I'll have a uterus Wellshut up.
Would you really do it so?
So I said do not come at me andsay that because I I'm not at a
good place, I'll punch you inthe face.
It's what I said on my text.
Why would people say that?
Like people would say that, orI would do it, but I had an
ablation.
Okay, you can't do it, you'renot helpful, so don't even
(12:20):
acknowledge it.
If you can't do it well, Idon't even acknowledge it.
If you can't do it Well, Idon't know how much longer it
was, maybe a month or two.
It's 11 o'clock at night.
This is a core memory.
I'm laying in bed with my son,putting him to sleep and my
phone rings.
It's my friend, emily, and I'mlike something's wrong.
It's 11 o'clock at night.
Why is she calling me?
I answer, and she's like hey, Iwant to carry a baby for you.
(12:44):
I'm like have you been drinking?
And she's like, actually, yes,but I really want to do it.
Like I've talked to my parents,she did the things and she has
three daughters and hadbeautiful pregnancies.
She's like I actually likebeing pregnant.
And I said are you done havingkids?
She's like, yes, I want no morekids.
And I was like I'll put a babyin you, because I was actually
(13:05):
in the process of doing aretrieval again and because I
told Joe I was like let's do aretrieval just in case something
happens, so that we have theembryos on deck, basically.
And so February, a few monthslater, we transferred and got
pregnant with Pax and he's nine.
(13:27):
So they literally fell into mylap.
But I think I find much power inmanifestation.
So I don't know if that didanything or what, but I had two
people step up to the plate andwant to do it.
I actually had a third personstep up and Pax was probably two
(13:48):
and we have spent well beyond Iquit counting at $150,000.
It's a lot of money and she'slike I would like to carry a
baby for you.
And this girl I would say shewas 25, maybe she had a daughter
(14:08):
, perfect candidate.
But I said I know you want tohave more kids and if something
happened and I took that awayfrom you, I would not be able to
live with that and so I turnedher down because can you imagine
?
Like no.
So I I told her no, but I'vehad three people say they wanted
(14:31):
to do it.
So that's how surrogacy fellinto my lap.
I'm not saying I wouldn't havegot there on my own, necessarily
, but we we had looked at likeuh, children's has this.
They used to have this thingcalled the adoption academy
where you would.
They kind of went overinternational and domestic
adoption and what that means,and you know they went through
(14:54):
everything.
So I think adoption was next ondeck for us.
I didn't even think ofsurrogacy because I didn't think
that was something I could do.
I'm just, I'm not a richKardashian, like you say, like I
, how could I do that?
Well, I did, and it was notnear as intimidating as I
(15:15):
thought it would be.
There was a grieving processwhen and there still is for me I
don't think I'll ever get overthe fact that I won't feel a
baby inside of me.
That's a hard pill.
(15:47):
Do you have tissues?
Good Lord Carrie, do you havetissues?
Good lord Carrie.
I am a sonographer.
I do ultrasound.
So for my first son, I got toscan him in utero, which was so
(16:09):
weird because I was able todetermine the gender from that
scan and I was like oh my gosh,oh my gosh, and Joe's like
what's wrong?
And I'm like I see a penis.
I see a penis and I'm yellingin the room and I thought
everything looked abnormal,because you lose rationale when
it's your own kid.
Everything was fine, he's fine.
Um, I mean, he's 14, so he'snot super nice right now, but
(16:30):
everything's fine.
But I had to disconnect,absolutely.
I had to disconnect because, assomeone who does OBGYN
sonography, I was seeing peoplepregnant every day and I saw
people who didn't see the valuein it and I saw people who
(16:51):
didn't want it.
But I also saw the other sideof it, people who wanted their
babies, and I had to seepregnant women every day.
So I had to totally disconnectfrom our pregnancies because I
saw them.
When I scanned Lorraine, myfirst surrogate, I was like,
(17:11):
okay, there's the baby's abdomen, like I'm talking to her, like
this is her child, and I justcouldn't connect Because if I
connect and something happens,I'm not able to cope with that.
So when my oldest was born, hewas born C-section and I see him
(17:33):
and he looks 100% like me, likeI could have spit him out, and
I'm like, okay, that's mine.
And I didn't feel thatimmediate bond that everyone's
like, oh, you're going to justexplode.
No, there was no exploding.
There was like, okay, crap, Igot this kid, he's mine and I'm
(17:56):
taking him home.
So about two months later I'min the ER and a patient, this
80-year-old woman, I'm scanningher gallbladder.
She goes, oh honey, do you havekids?
And I start sobbing and I'mlike I have a son.
Like I had no clue, I had a son.
So it took me probably twomonths before I bonded with him.
(18:17):
With the second one it was alittle better because I had been
there, done that.
Emily, who's also a sonographer, my second gestational carrier.
She would take a picture oncein a while and send it to me,
but I was still verydisconnected on him as well.
So so I feel like it was hardto have much of a grieving
(18:39):
process because I just kind ofwas like that's outside, that's
not in my life.
And then I got them and Iconnected finally and now I feel
like I can connect in my jobmore, but that's the only way I
could continue.
But I think there's alwaysgoing to be a grieving process
because I don't think I'm evergoing to be able to get over the
(19:02):
fact that I couldn't do that.
I mean, what's a woman supposedto do?
That's what we're supposed todo.
That's what you're told oh, youget married, you have kids.
I got married but I couldn't dothe rest and it's very, it's
hard.
But to have two women who didthat for me, what do you get
(19:25):
them for Christmas?
Surrogacy is a big deal in myhouse.
I feel that the sacrifice thatLorraine and Emily made needs to
be celebrated Like this is youdon't just do that for people,
and there are some people who doit, but that just doesn't
happen every day.
So my boys absolutely know I'lltell Pax where'd you grow?
(19:48):
He's like Emily's vagina, orhe'll say Emily's uterus.
And they do know where theycame from.
And they do know that my oneson had to do a timeline of his
life and his first picture washim as a day five embryo looking
like a little Ritz cracker onhis timeline.
I was like no one else is goingto have a picture like that and
I think now he's probablyembarrassed by it because you
(20:10):
know he's different.
He thinks he's different.
Um, but it will always becelebrated in our house when
it's their birthday.
Every year, their birthday andmother's day, I text lorraine
and emily and I say thank youfor today and emily's like can
you stop?
Like you don't need to keepdoing this.
I said I'm doing it the rest ofmy natural life, so get over
(20:32):
over it.
That's what's going to happen.
But yeah, we every, every yearand I've had, you know, cullen
tell Lorraine my first arrogant,you know, thanks for growing me
, thanks for growing me Likethey deserve that celebration.
So I don't ever want it In myhouse.
I didn't want it to ever be asecret, because that's a huge
(20:53):
thing to do for somebody andthere's not a lot of people in
the world who can say they everwould do something like that?
I had to get life insurance onthem when they were pregnant
because you can die, and theydid.
They knew this could happen andthey did it for me.
Like that is freaking huge, sohuge.
(21:14):
So, yeah, it's celebrated in myhouse for someone who's going
through fertility now and thereyou're, in the absolute darkness
.
There was a quote that I sawfrom Sheryl Crow, of all people,
and it said not I maybe notexactly, but it said, little
(21:36):
souls will find their way to you, whether they're from your womb
or not, and I firmly believethis With my patients who are in
the pit of darkness.
I'll manifest it.
I'll do whatever I need to do,but it will happen.
You just don't give up.
Whether it's from yourbiological baby or someone's
(21:59):
caring for you or you'readopting, you will find your,
your soul.
They will come to you.
You just have to keep fighting.
And it's so hard to do becauseand that's easy to say, because
it's not like money's, andthat's easy to say because it's
not like money's you knowinfinity, you, you.
There are times where, yeah,you have to cap it, but just
(22:20):
don't stop fighting because theywill find you.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
And I 100 percent believe that, and you, might be
totally fine through the wholething.
So just whatever it is, it is,I just appreciate you being here
and I hope you know that likeit's's going to have a really
big impact on someone.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
I almost didn't reach out, and then I thought if it
were me, I was searching forthis and I didn't find it.
Yeah see no I know, okay, Ifeel a little weepy.
Yeah, that's what.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
I'm saying and let me get some tissue just in case,
because we had to.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
Okay, that'd be great .
I'm Cassie, and my husband andI were married for four years
before we started began a familyand we tried for eight months
before conceiving naturally, andwe were blessed with my son
Graham, and following that wehad tried to get pregnant again
(23:16):
and really struggled.
So we had a miscarriage filledwith years of infertility.
Essentially so we had pursuedIUI and what I was frustrated
with was I knew that I was ahealthy individual, that I'd
carried a baby to term andconceived naturally, and I
(23:39):
couldn't find the root answerfor why infertility was
happening or why we struggle toeven conceive, and so I became
almost fixated on a journey tonatural holistic health.
I wanted to determine why Iwasn't getting pregnant, what
was the root cause, and it ledme down a path of functional
(24:00):
medicine and acupuncture.
But we struggled for four and ahalf years before we conceived
my daughter and then followed byanother miscarriage.
There were really two concisedark memories in my mind around
(24:21):
our journey to conceive, and onewas we were on a family
vacation and one of mysister-in-laws announced she was
pregnant, and it should bejoyous, and it was, but it was
deeply painful for me who was inthe thick of trying to get
pregnant and I remember justgoing into the shower and crying
(24:43):
and just wanting to be alonewith my thoughts in that moment
and then another time I thinkabout.
You know, I was raised from afamily of women with stiff upper
lips.
You tackle the problem and ifyou can't change it, you adjust
(25:05):
your attitude and what I hadlearned in this journey.
It was very uncomfortable formy mom to sit in it with me and
so I leaned a lot on my sister.
But my mom, although her advicewas trying to be helpful and
(25:29):
uplifting there was a phoneconversation.
I know what street I was on, Iknow where, what house I was by
and I was in despair Like Iwanted to expand our family.
And I was in despair Like Iwanted to expand our family and
the need that I had to do thatand the urge I felt she wasn't
understanding and instead ofjust sitting with me in that
(25:51):
despair, she wanted to pull mealong.
And you know it's an urge youhave when somebody you love is
hurting to urge them on versussitting on that bench of despair
with me.
And that's what I wanted from mymom and others during that time
, the advice that I have foranybody going through this or
(26:16):
wanting to support a friend isto acknowledge it.
I mean, sometimes it felt likesuch an isolating event and I
wanted to.
I wanted somebody to see what Iwas going through or ask or
inquire, but there's a reallyrespectful way to do that and a
time and a place and a not atime and a place to do that.
Um, and honestly, I think thatwomen are way better at it than
(26:40):
men are, and so an example is wehad had a loss and even my
brother-in-laws did not know howto acknowledge it.
You know it's, it'suncomfortable you don't want to
bring up somebody else's painbut one of my friends who, his
sister, had gone through a lotof miscarriages, he just pulled
me aside and said you know, I amso sorry and coming from a man,
(27:05):
it felt so healing that youknow it wasn't just my husband
who I was able to hear that youknow those words from, but a
male friend.
It was so touching and just tohear somebody acknowledge how's
your journey going.
If you want to talk about it,great.
(27:25):
If you don't, that's fine too.
But I'm thinking of you.
A random text, a check-in, acall, a conversation?
You want to go on a walk.
You know, I mean just beingwith that person and sitting
with that is just so helpful.
I mean just being with thatperson and sitting with that is
just so helpful.
I think the most positive thingto come out of this is an
(27:47):
empathetic understanding of ahealth journey that you can't
diagnose.
Wow, that's enough to just sendyou, you know, sideways.
Another thing is patience withmy children now.
So you know, kids were sicklast week.
(28:08):
It happens Disrupts schedules,they act up, it happens they're
children.
But the deep gratitude that Ihave that they are here and I
get to be their mom adds anadditional layer of patience.
I think in my parenting that Ican't take for granted.
(28:33):
So the way it changed or alteredthe course of our relationship
meaning my husband and I wouldbe you know we had moved away
when we were married and so wehad just this really cocoon of
time together and we had a lotof challenges because we moved
to different cities but we hadeach other to depend on and I
think that really set thefoundation for this journey
(28:54):
because it was us two and itwasn't always a happy cocoon,
you know, during the fertilityjourney, but it was this
reliance that, no matter what,we cherished each other beyond.
And I am just, I am reallylucky to have the husband I have
.
I mean, he is so supportive,but he's the oldest of four boys
(29:20):
, so sometimes, like, the femaledynamic gets lost in
translation and that's okay.
You know, that's prettyendearing actually.
But he was raised in a bigGerman Catholic family.
His dad is one of nine boys.
He is the oldest of four boysand I would go, you know, as we
(29:41):
were early dating in you know20s.
I would listen to his extendedfamily, who were smart, talented
women, talk about their kids.
So you know I was looking forideas or business opportunities,
you know, like nursing degrees,or I thought how interesting
that they don't talk aboutthemselves much, they talk about
their much.
They talk about their, theirkids and their families.
And now I understand that as amom, you know, um, but it was
(30:06):
almost a okay.
You know, you married Cassieand now she can't produce kind
of thing.
What's wrong with me issomething defective.
Am I not woman enough?
And those were the lies.
I told myself a lot, a lot, andto even hear them out loud it's
painful because I know that'snot accurate, but it felt true,
(30:30):
at that time you really have toadvocate for yourself around the
health care you want.
I've had to advocate for myselfon the miscarriages I want.
They're eager to do all sortsof interventions and I'm like my
(30:51):
body is smart and intuitive.
It knows whether it's fosteringa pregnancy or in the
miscarriage process.
You know you just really haveto advocate for the way you
massage that.
I guess they want to shove youtowards IVF.
At least in my case they werejust shoving, shoving, shoving
(31:13):
and I'm like but I'm healthy, Icarried a baby to term.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
Why is why are we like pushing that yeah?
Speaker 3 (31:18):
Should we not?
Is there a root cause, maybe,and I I think it's.
It's still a great mystery.
You know, left in the world, weknow what the weather is going
to be a week from today, but wedon't know about fertility.
Speaker 4 (31:31):
Yes, I mean, it's like on one thing, a really
beautiful thing, that I don'tnot everything in my life is
sorted out and it's still amystery, but I mean, geez,
louise, my name is Megan.
I have an almost seven-year-olddaughter named Maren, and it
was quite the journey to get toher.
(31:53):
We were very blessed that whenwe first got married, jay and I,
we were totally shocked that wegot pregnant right away.
It was very much a shock andquickly found out that that was
not the case.
We had our first loss at aboutsix and a half seven weeks and I
(32:15):
thought how could this even bepossible?
And went through one of thehardest times ever and that was
that um miscarriage that we Ihad alone at the house.
Um, no one ever prepares youfor something like that, to
experience it by yourself.
(32:37):
Um, and I don't even blame myhusband because he doesn't know
how to help in that situation.
So we got through everythingwith that.
A couple months later we werepregnant again and same
situation.
Unfortunately, we lost thatchild as well to another
(33:02):
miscarriage.
But I at least had the power andthe knowledge of what to do
when that happened a little bitmore.
I had the resources and thepeople to support me a little
bit better that time.
But none of them are easy.
It never gets easier.
So at that point I said, okay,knowledge is power, I'm going to
(33:22):
the experts to try and havethem help me out here.
And of course, I was ofgeriatric age, which we all hate
that word.
But so we went and we gottesting.
Everything looked really goodand we decided that we were
going to try an IUI.
(33:43):
And, lo and behold, we have ourmiracle Marin, and she truly is
a miracle, because I love thestory.
The day that she was, the daythat we went in for our IUI, was
my grandma's birthday, august16th, and my grandma is just an
(34:07):
incredible person.
We just lost her about a yearand a half ago.
But I have no doubt in my mindthat that is one of the reasons
that she, maren, is here today,because the day that that
happened was her birthday.
So that just gave me peacealong the journey, and it was a
scary journey.
I thought we lost her again atabout eight, nine weeks.
(34:29):
We had a huge scare, huge bleed.
My mom rushed down fromCanfield.
It was traumatic, but there wasthat little heartbeat and yeah,
and then Maren's born.
Life's great, let's do thisagain.
So guess what?
We get pregnant right away, wemiscarry and I'm just like third
(34:55):
time, this can't be happening.
And it happened.
And then I said I'm done again,we're going back.
So we did another round of IUI,thinking it worked.
It didn't work and then so wewere like let's jump to the
better alternative, the betterchance, more testing.
(35:15):
We ended up doing two rounds ofIVF with one fertility clinic
here in Columbus.
We got millions of eggs butnothing ever went to blast.
We couldn't even transfer anyof those embryos and at that
point I was pretty deflated,pretty defeated.
My age is creeping up.
So then we decided to switchfertility clinics, went to
(35:39):
another fertility clinic theygot.
He was extremely confident,thinking we can do this still.
But again we got all the way.
We had one embryo that was notof great quality and and
unfortunately it did not take.
So I said I'm done, that's it,I'm done.
And COVID happened.
And lo and behold, we saidlet's try one more time.
(36:01):
We got pregnant.
We thought this is it, it wasCOVID, we're going to have
another baby and miscarriagenumber four.
So for me, 40 happened and Ijust, I was done with shots, I
was done with DNCs.
I was, I was just, I was, I wasdone with shots.
I was done with DNCs.
I was just, I was done.
And Maren asks every day, allthe time, why do I not have a
(36:25):
brother or a sister?
And it's really hard becauseshe can't understand the journey
yet, but we tried really hardto give her a brother or sister.
We tried really hard and everyday when I look at her I'm like
what would it be like to haveanother one of you?
Or what would another one belike?
(36:45):
Would you be different?
Would you be the same?
And it's hard, fertility isjust.
It's really hard.
But we're also blessed becauseevery Mother's Day hard, but
we're also blessed because everyMother's Day I get to celebrate
Mother's Day and I think aboutthat all the time that I get.
(37:07):
I get to be called mom and Iget called it a lot every day
and it drives me crazy sometimes.
But in those moments when I'mlike can you please not say mom
one more time?
I also know in the back of myhead how blessed I am to be
given that title, because it isthe greatest title that I will
ever be given.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
So during COVID was that just a natural pregnancy?
Fuck dude.
Speaker 4 (37:29):
And we had a heartbeat like a little teeny,
like they thought we went in.
They were like yes, and then Iwas like IUD.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
I'm done and there's a lot of power in that.
Speaker 4 (37:46):
I mean, it's just it just there was, and there was
peace After like six months.
There was so much peace in thatbecause I knew I and we talked
about adoption and we talkedabout all the things we talked.
My sister offered eggs becauseit was my eggs that ended up
being something.
That was that they thought wasthe problem and my husband
couldn't get past certain and Iget it every.
(38:06):
You have to be both on board.
I've realized that too.
Whatever you choose to goforward with or to stop with,
you have to be on board, and Iwas ready like I was, like this
is the closest we get my sister,my daughter looks just like my
sister's four children.
She could be one of theirchildren, but my husband would
never have gotten past the factthat this is like my child with
(38:26):
yours.
He could not, and you that'swhere it stops.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
And that's, and that is totally fine.
Speaker 4 (38:32):
Yeah, that is, and he is valid in his feelings and
his thoughts.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
And then you know yeah, it takes them a little
while, exactly, exactly, sorrythat you're the basic gender.
Speaker 4 (38:43):
We're sorry.
How did this journey withinfertility impact my mental
health?
I mean, there's no doubt I wentinto some dark, deep, deep
times and it affected my mentalhealth but, more importantly, my
relationship, because I was insuch a dark place but my husband
(39:07):
was dealing with it indifferent ways and not to the
same degree, because I'm comingout of a surgery yet again or
having another procedure done totry to have another child, or
having another procedure done totry to have another child and
my body is just physically kindof rejecting all of this.
So mentally I mean I definitely.
(39:28):
But I think the biggest thingwith my mental health journey
for me because this is just thetype of person I am was to talk
about it.
I just am the person.
I want to talk about it.
I want other people, I lean onother people in those situations
.
But I also think, with thisjourney, I think the biggest
thing too with anybody's mentalsituation is, with anything you
(39:52):
have to deal with it, the wayyou want to deal with it and the
way you grieve and the way thatyou deal with it, because
there's no shame if you don'twant to talk about it.
But that is just the way that Ifound peace for myself was to
(40:12):
get it out there, was to knowthat other.
I was not alone in thissituation, because and so many
people talk about it, but it canfeel so incredibly lonely.
And why me and why us?
But there's a reason.
There's a true reason why wehave one amazing, crazy, almost
(40:32):
seven-year-old and a dog thatshe calls her sister you know,
because that's her sibling, sothat's okay.
A dog that she calls her sister.
You know, because that's hersibling, so that's okay.
During this whole infertilityand loss that we went through,
one of the core memories that Ihave is that very first
miscarriage, when the doctor Idon't understand why, looking
(40:55):
back basically asked me howwould you like to miscarry?
Oh, I don't know.
You know I, at a bar, I meanlike drinking, I don't know.
Like, I mean I, how would Ilike to miscarry?
I, I don't.
And I said, well, you're theexpert, can you tell me I never
had gone through this.
(41:15):
And so she, she was like, well,I think it's best that you
don't have surgery and that wejust do this naturally, and so
we do a pill and you will justmiscarry naturally.
So I said okay, notunderstanding much, and at this
time didn't know, and Iliterally had a pill inserted.
I went home, it was two o'clockin the afternoon and she said in
(41:40):
a couple hours you're going tostart to feel a ton of pain and
a ton of cramping, and thenyou're going to start to feel
like you're basically givingbirth with a miscarriage.
And I guess I just didn'tconceptualize what she was
telling me at the time and so Iwent home and it was all that
and then some.
It was pure hell.
(42:02):
I was on the bathroom floorbecause I was sweating so
profusely and my husband was atwork because I don't think we
neither of us understood thepower of what was about to
happen.
But I will never forget and Istill like, look at that
bathroom floor and laying thereand having to experience that by
(42:25):
myself and asking myself did ithappen already?
Is this as bad as it's gonnaget?
And then it got worse and Istill, even when it got really
bad, I'm like is this it?
I just I didn't even.
And so I told myself from thatpoint on that I would never do
this alone like this again.
I will have my people by me,because I thought I was strong
(42:46):
enough to do it by myself andthat I will never do it like
this again.
I will never do this at home bymyself, without the use of
other.
I will undergo some type of asurgery to, if this, God forbid,
ever happens again, whichunfortunately it did.
So, um, yeah, that is my corehorrible memory from all of this
(43:11):
Advice for people going throughit.
Um, again, it's everybody's ownjourney and what they, but my
advice is is to start to talkabout it and and and asking
people, if you, if you trustthem, if you know that you want
their advice, because sometimeswe ask people knowing we truly
(43:35):
don't want their advice, but yetwe ask it anyways, and then
we're like shit, why did I justask for it?
I really didn't.
Or, people just give theiropinion, whether they're asked
it or not.
And I also think, too, goingthrough the journey, knowledge
(43:56):
is power, and you ask thequestions to these.
If you are these, if you aregoing to a doctor, you deserve
your time in that office.
You deserve to ask any question.
You take as much time as youneed, because you need to know
all of the information, and ifthey're not going to give it to
you, then go to someone who does, because that's not fair to you
(44:21):
.
Because, yes, these doctors aredealing with this all the time,
every day, day in and day out.
This is just what they do allthe time they see people who are
dealing with infertility.
But your journey is yourjourney, and what you're going
through in that moment youdeserve that time.
(44:42):
What positive things have comeout of this experience?
I met one of my best friendsbecause of it.
We got to.
We were actually connectedthrough a friend from high
school who went throughfertility issues, who I knew as
well, but we ended up bondingover the fact that we both just
(45:05):
had one child.
But we met at Crimson Cup on arandom like Tuesday night,
because we were both looking tonanny share and lo and behold,
she was literally experiencingand going through the exact same
things.
I was going through differentas far as in, like you know,
weight or the reasons ofinfertility, but we decided that
(45:26):
we think this will work.
We'll share our home with eachother for the next five and a
half years.
Our kids are best friends.
They could never have anotherchild.
We could never have anotherchild and I think that that's
probably number one for me isthat we, you know, in sharing as
much as we did with each other,it got us through that time as
(45:47):
well, too, because they haveeach other and they're like
siblings, and it's one of thebiggest blessings of my life.
If there were things that Icould say that people asked me
or to not say to people goingthrough this journey, yes,
number one for sure, if I had tohear one more time but you work
out, you're in great shape,you'll get pregnant, you're not
(46:08):
that old, it's okay.
I was going to lose my mindbecause in so many ways it has
nothing to do with that.
It drove me crazy all the time.
And then the other one, nowthat we have one child, it was
the question, and I used to, toa fault, I used to say this to
people too.
(46:29):
You just kind of don't knowwhat to say, but with one it
would be like are you ready tohave another one?
And I'm really honest withthose people and I tell them
flat out.
I say we have one miracle childand she truly is a miracle, and
I wish we could have beenblessed with more, but we were
not able to.
(46:51):
How did this infertility journeyhave an impact on the
relationship with my husbandimpact on the relationship with
my husband?
Um, I think the biggest thingfor me, and I think a lot of
women deal with, is that men arejust never going to fully
understand what we're goingthrough.
(47:12):
There's just and there's justno way.
(47:45):
There's just no way and so, oryou have done all these things
to your body to try to have achild, they will just never
experience and to no fault oftheir.
You know they can't help that,but but it definitely put a
strain because those, thosefeelings, just it just won't
(48:06):
ever, they'll never be able tofathom it because of that mic
drop.
Speaker 1 (48:11):
You're right.
My name is cassie and I am onein six my name is megan and I am
one in six.
Speaker 4 (48:17):
My name is Megan and I am one in six.
Speaker 2 (48:21):
My name is Gwenna and I'm one in six.
You are a warrior, you're abadass and you are not alone.
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