From the moment Oyauma Garrison walked into the studio—I knew this conversation was going to be so goddamn special. As the CEO of Maryhaven—a premier nonprofit rehabilitation center in Central Ohio—Oyauma carries a story that’s deeply personal and incredibly powerful.
We talked about everything: growing up in Baltimore during the crack epidemic, the mentors who helped shape his path, and how he’s now using his platform to lead the charge on some of the biggest mental health and addiction issues facing our communities today—right here in Central Ohio.
We get into:
→ The alarming rise in fentanyl and xylazine overdose deaths
→ Why women are drinking more post-pandemic
→ The hidden homelessness crisis in America
→ How Maryhaven’s programs are changing lives of people impacted by addiction and mental illness
I can’t think of a more meaningful way to honor #mentalhealthawarenessmonth than with this conversation. Oyauma you are the true definition of a TOTAL BADASS. I'm so grateful for this time together. If you’ve ever wondered how to make a difference or just want to hear from someone who walks the talk—this is it.
🧠 Need support? Maryhaven’s resources are here: https://maryhaven.com
🙌 Want to get involved? Donate or volunteer: https://maryhaven.com/give-hope/
This one’s going to stay with me for a while.
I hope it does for you too.
#MentalHealthAwareness #AddictionRecovery #HomelessnessSupport #Maryhaven #OyaumaGarrison #FentanylCrisis #WomensMentalHealth #BehavioralHealth #Leadership #KeriCroftShow
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hey there you beautiful badass.
Welcome to the Keri Croft Show.
I'm your host, keri Croft,delivering you stories that get
you pumped up and feeling likethe unstoppable savage that you
are.
So grab your coffee, put onyour game face and let's do this
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(01:13):
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Don't say I've never doneanything for you.
Some people, you get them inhere and they're like, oh, what
the fuck's?
happening All of a sudden.
I'm nervous.
I'm like why are you fuckingnervous?
I'm a knucklehead, you're aknucklehead.
Let's just like have a chat,right.
I love it so anyway, we arehere to have fun, to get to know
, each other.
Let's do it and the fact thatthere are cameras here.
(01:34):
That's just all secondary.
Awesome, handsome I don't evenknow what just walked in in a
suit.
Welcome to the Keri Croft Show.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Well, thank you, thank you, thank you for having
me.
I'm excited about this.
I'm pumped.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
I like your energy.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Oh hey, same I'm feeling it.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
I'm feeling something happening here.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
It's the whole aura thing right.
There is an aura Right.
And then you see, of Tupac, andI was like you've got to be
kidding me.
So I am born and raised inBaltimore, maryland, and so my
cousin actually went to schoolwith Tupac.
He was a few years ahead of me,and so at Dunbar High School,
paul Alonso, dunbar CommunityHigh School you've got to say it
that way right, the Ohio StateUniversity and then he also went
(02:23):
to the Baltimore City Schoolfor Performing Arts, and so one
of my cousins was actually goodfriends with him way back in the
day and also knew Jada Pinkettfor a period in time.
So yeah, it's wild, I love thatit's wild.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
So you would pick Tupac over Biggie.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
then if I made you pick one, you know the lyrical
genius that comes from a manlike Tupac and his life's
experience and what he wastrying to educate people on.
You know, no matter what yourposition is, I mean, the man was
gifted, absolutely gifted.
(02:57):
Now Biggie different dynamicright.
I view that more as a club vibeand scene.
Whereas Tupac was a poet, hewas a prophet in my mind Touche,
touche, he's my man.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Like right now in my head.
I'm like, still, I see nochanges.
All I see is racist faces.
Wake up in the morning and Iask him it's right?
It's like you know, like he wason the grind.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Could you imagine Tupac alive today in this
current?
Speaker 1 (03:29):
climate.
Well, yes, and I wish he wasalive.
I still miss him.
Can I tell you this how manyphotos I have of Tupac in my
house?
Speaker 2 (03:37):
How many?
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Probably four or five , like more than my children.
Wow, wow.
I'm a different breed.
I love it.
You know what I'm saying.
So, oyama, before we get sweptaway in each other's energy, you
are the CEO of Mary Haven.
Yes, you're a big old CEO, huh.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
You know it is a gift and it is certainly a humbling
opportunity to be able to servein such a capacity, because the
reality is, when we think aboutsubstance use disorder and
mental health, most people don'twant to talk about it.
And so the ability to serve foran organization that has had a
legacy, now standing for 72years in this community doing, I
(04:21):
like to say, god's work Right,this is an opportunity to reach
out and help people get theirlives back on track.
Well, guess what?
Most people don't want to talkabout it.
Back in the day, that cousinwould have stayed in the back
room, that family member wouldhave never had anyone talking
about them and likely would havenever pursued help.
So the ability for me, acorporate guy, to come into the
(04:45):
nonprofit space and to beinvited into the nonprofit space
, to be able to use the platformand to articulate what it means
to release and free yourselfand go and get help, absolutely
the title is the title.
It's the work that matters more.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Amen.
Did somebody transport me tochurch?
What I mean?
Where am I?
I just got, I don't even know.
I'm like swept up in this man.
I am swept up in you and Ithink that you know.
You look at your background,right.
You came from poverty.
You didn't't have anything, andso you, having that background,
(05:27):
yeah, oh my gosh, you broughtit very, you were gonna talk
about this.
So this is the last food stampvery that you had when you were
how old?
Speaker 2 (05:35):
so that was 1987.
So gosh, I would have been, Ifeel like about 13 ish now, did
you bring that for this?
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Did you always keep that with you, or did you bring
that?
Speaker 2 (05:45):
So I brought it today just because, for me, when I go
out and I talk on varioustopics and knowing that we would
likely have a conversationaround my upbringing, I like to
remind people just because, asyou asked a question earlier
about being the CEO, justbecause you see people in their
current setting, it doesn'talways mean you know their story
and you don't know theirbackdrop right.
And so for me, I came fromnothing.
(06:07):
I came from needing a handoutto being in a position where I
can help other people.
You know, I like to say it'slike that moment in Hamilton
when they talk about being inthe room where it happens.
So I've gone from being on theoutside, not ever knowing
anything about that room, to nowbeing in that room, to now
being in that room and how muchbetter does that make you being
(06:28):
in the room it keeps me?
grounded.
It helps me understand how Ican better help people, yeah,
and it helps me stay connectedand to the same accord.
I understand the struggle, sofor me, absolutely, so I had to
bring it.
Yeah, I love that so.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
So take me back a little bit when you were growing
up like that and you were onfood stamps and you didn't have
a pot to piss in.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Yeah, so I come from a single parent household, right
?
So I want to be very clearthat's not every
African-American male story, butI did come from a single family
household.
My mother graduated Well, Ishouldn't say that my mother had
her first kid, my oldestdaughter, my oldest sister, when
(07:10):
she was 16.
And so she had to drop out ofhigh school, eventually went
back, got her GED and then hadme at 20, and then decided that
she needed to keep doing thatone thing that no one could take
away from her, but alsoinstilling her kids, and that
was education.
So she went back and she gother bachelor's degree, she got
(07:34):
two master's degrees, includingan MBA, and she was a few
credits away from a PhD, but shewas raising two knucklehead
kids.
So she showed us a path.
And you know, almostintentionally, when you think
about going back.
I grew up in Baltimore in theheight of the crack epidemic,
the height of poverty, theheight of just joblessness for
(07:54):
some people.
I mean, the city was thrivingin certain areas, but in others
it was not, and it was so easy,so easy for a young man like me
to fall victim, to fallsusceptible to what was
happening at the times.
But I had five people, fivepeople that I owe my life to,
(08:20):
five people.
That is my mother, who kept meaway from things and kept me out
of things.
Who kept me away from thingsand kept me out of things.
My uncle, alfonso Stith, whoserved as my surrogate father
even as he was coming up as ayoung man, but he knew that he
needed to make certain that hisnieces and nephews had a
positive figure and he workedhis ass off and he showed us
(08:42):
what it meant to be a man.
And then my cousins, two of themone who is here and one who has
passed.
And my oldest cousin, johnnyStiff, who, he will tell you, he
felt susceptible to the life,but the one thing he saw in me
he said you have a brain and Iwill never, ever allow you to
(09:03):
get involved in any of this.
And if I hear anybody even tryto pull you in, they're going to
answer to me.
And the same thing went with mycousin Carlinzo.
And the fifth person actuallywas myself.
And the only reason I say that?
Because if I didn't have enoughbelief and didn't have enough
grounding and foundation, Istill could have taken all those
(09:25):
paths, and this guy you seesitting here today, wouldn't be
here, could be locked up, couldbe dead, who knows?
Because I lost a lot of friendsalong the way.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
You know, I love that .
You said myself and I want togive you a little clap for that.
You know that thing.
Like I want to thank me, butpeople don't do that enough
because we're not supposed to.
It sounds like oh, you can't,you're arrogant or you're this I
.
I feel like there is such um alack like everyone's so
self-deprecating.
You're the only person in theworld that you can't get away
(09:56):
from, so like you need to begiving yourself some accolades
and holding yourself accountableand thanking yourself when you
deserve it.
So I love that you saidyourself.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
You got to take some level of ownership.
I think we pass it off too muchand it's okay to say you know
what I did, that you know, I sawit, I seized it, I understood
it and it's okay.
You do it without arrogance isthe best way to describe it.
Do you remember going to thegrocery store and using food
(10:31):
stamps?
I do, and in fact my mom wouldsend my sister and I down there
and we'd have the book and ifyou didn't have the book you
couldn't buy anything with thefive and tens.
You could only buy thingswithout the book, with the one.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Were you so used to it or were you ashamed?
Or did you know where you'relike?
Okay, we're different, likewe're using food stamps.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
So, depending on who was in the store, for the most
part I was a little bitindifferent to it because I was
young and a kid and it was kindof all I really knew.
But then, yeah, that wasactually other people who would
tease us or tease others becausethey were using food stamps.
And then it was later on Irealized, well, some of them
(11:03):
were using it too.
So it was kind of like, why areyou teasing me if you're using
it?
But it was that sort of thatmentality at the time.
But you know, later on I willtell you, as I navigated through
middle school and high school,I was a bit more ashamed of it
because I didn't want people tothink that I didn't have
anything because my mom workedhard and she did everything she
(11:25):
could to provide something forus.
I mean, I've got countlessstories.
I mean stories where I mean Ibarely had good quality tennis
shoes to put on my feet becausemom had to pay the bills, and it
was either pay the bills or tryto put shoes on Oyama's feet,
and so I would wear tatted upshoes and get teased.
And so I would wear tatted upshoes and get teased.
(11:46):
But you know what, here I sittoday, and so, yeah, I mean it
was a bit of shame, but today Idon't mind talking about it.
And it wasn't simply because Imoved up in corporate America.
I started having thisconversation when I was in
college to help stay grounded.
So, yeah, what?
Speaker 1 (12:00):
did, your mom do.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
So my mom was a financial aid assistant director
over at Morgan State Universityand at Coppin State, then it
was College, now University.
Okay, because you had talkedabout carpal tunnel about her
getting like.
Oh, that was such a change.
That was a game changer in herlife and ours.
Because she, if you think aboutit, back then they measured you
(12:24):
based on how many words youcould type a minute, how fast,
and I mean like all of thatstuff, and there wasn't a lot of
support around these new thingsand dynamics that were kind of
coming about, and carpal tunnelsyndrome was one of them, and
eventually her hands got lockedup to the point where she could
hardly use them.
And eventually her hands gotlocked up to the point where she
(12:45):
could hardly use them.
And imagine being a singlewoman at that time and you can't
use your hands.
Who's hiring you?
What workers comp are yougetting?
How do you support your familyat that point?
So it became challenging andshe worked through a lot of that
, along with pain that came inas a result of it.
So you know, kudos to her.
(13:07):
She's now.
She passed.
Last year it was a tough time.
2024 was a tough time.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
That reminds me of another Tupac song.
Dear Mama, you are appreciated.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
She laid a foundation of service for me, that and my
sister that we are foreverindebted on.
She would give food from herown pantry to people, give
clothes that she knew otherswould need.
She would provide free taxservices to folk because she was
a CPA so she could do that.
(13:40):
She did all these wonderfulthings to just help out other
individuals and their families.
How can you not get that inyour heart and try to carry that
on?
Speaker 1 (13:50):
And now here you are today with this type of
background, all the empathy andunderstanding.
You have such a great lens tobe doing what you're doing.
So you have the corporateAmerica background.
You came up with nothing.
I started from the bottom.
Now we're here.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
I just keep going back to the hip hop I can't stop
.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
It's like a, it's like a thing, and so you know.
Do you feel like you could notbe in a more perfect position
right now to to serve people insuch a great capacity?
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Yeah, there's, there's.
There are moments in life we'reall going to have them, and so
for me, sometimes you're movingthrough life and you may forget,
and then there's a moment thathappens that recalls it.
For me, the reason I sit herein this seat today, on the
nonprofit side, and inparticular at Mary Haven, I will
(14:42):
say it's twofold, and inparticular at Mary Haven, I will
say it's twofold One prior toeven really looking into the
work at Mary Haven, after Ireceived the call about the
opportunity, I never even reallythought too much about my
life's experience on my father'sside.
So by the time I got to know myfather, which was much later in
(15:02):
life, I'd come to learn so muchabout the addiction that he
struggled with.
But as a kid I did have somegeneralized interactions and in
those interactions, when hewould pick me up and we would go
to places sometimes it was theAA meeting, but I didn't know
what it was.
I knew the AA prayer and Ithought that was the Lord's
(15:25):
prayer.
Right, but I cause, that waswhat I was exposed to.
And so his addiction aroundalcoholism and substance use
primarily was the result of hisservice and getting injured, and
it I mean it ravished his life.
You know, I really didn't trulyget to know the man until the
(15:46):
final years, but by that pointit was too late.
His body, his internals, hadalready been so beat up from
alcohol and drugs that in myfreshman year of college that
May he passed away.
So I had to go back and bury mydad, even though he was sober.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Was he so remorseful, did he have talks with you
about just wishing he could getthat time back?
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Absolutely.
I mean, he was so incrediblyproud of me I mean on his
deathbed, which I can stillenvision going over to my
grandmother's house and standingby his bed and I told him.
I said, dad, I want you to knowyour son is doing great in
college.
Here's where I'm at, here's myGPA, here's what I'm involved in
.
And I saw the tear come downhis eye because he couldn't
(16:39):
speak at this point.
And so I saw that and, as ayoung man, that just energized
me while at the same timecontinued to just ground me in
the future.
And so I share that storyfreely today.
But if you would have asked methis 10 years ago, I probably
would not have shared as much ofit because of stigmas, because
(17:02):
of thoughts around it and then,candidly, just not really
linking it back to who I am andwhat I'm trying to do in my
life's journey.
Martin Luther King said it bestwe are not here for self, we're
here to help other people.
No one cares about the 80 hoursyou put in, no one cares about
the millions you made.
They want to talk about theimpact you made on other
(17:24):
people's lives.
That's the living legacy andstory.
And so, for me, that's what I'maspiring to do.
And then the other catalyst youknow I'm not going to go into
great detail on today becausethen we'll all be in here crying
, but the other catalyst was mydaughter, my oldest daughter,
and what happened to her in 2016, when she lost her life in
(17:45):
Nationwide Children's Hospital,which I'm so forever indebted to
them was able to get her back.
But that moment was areflective moment again on
what's most valuable, what arewe really trying to achieve and
do in this life's journey?
And I got to tell you both ofthose things leading into the
(18:06):
nonprofit sector, knowing that Ican make so much more in the
for-profit sector, but here,every day, kerry, I wake up and
I know I'm doing some good,every single day.
You can't pay me enough,because I know that I am
impacting someone else's life ina positive way by just simply
(18:30):
helping to move the strategyforward, move the organization
forward, clear hurdles and pathsfor people who want to live
their passion and their legacy,and that is to just do some more
good.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
So let's talk, mary Haven.
I mean, I know there's anopioid epidemic, I know fentanyl
like the world's turnt.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
It's crazy.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
What are we seeing there?
What's happening?
Give me the current sort ofdynamics and state of the
environment.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
So when we think about addiction, we tend to
think the illicit drugs, um, andthen certainly the fake pills
and everything that's out there.
The biggest challenge withfentanyl is knowing that at one
point it was created for truemedical reasons and still is
prescribed for true medical usesand reasons.
(19:17):
But the synthetic forms of it,the illegal and illicit forms of
it, it's undetectable.
It's odorless, it's colorless,its potency is so intense that
the pen tip or the pencil headtip is all you need for most
(19:40):
people to eventually experiencewhat could lead to an overdose
versus massive quantities ofother types of illicit drugs.
Well, you would think it wouldstop there, but it doesn't.
So we now have people who breakinto veterinary clinics and
other types of places to try tofind xylosing, which is an
(20:00):
animal tranquilizer which isalmost a thousand times more
potent than fentanyl, and whenthey use it and they mix it and
inject it into their system, itcreates necrosis at the site of
the injection, which meanseventually that part will start
to blacken, darken and or couldeventually just completely decay
(20:22):
and could lead to death.
Why are people doing this?
Part of it is they're battlingmental health challenges and
they use substances likefentanyl and other types of
opioids or marijuana and forsome right, not everyone they
use these things to mask themental health issues that
(20:45):
they're facing.
And the same thing with alcoholand what we find and what we
know, because outside of thehospitals in central Ohio
there's only one other placeanyone can go to if they are in
massive alcohol withdrawal, andthat is Mary Haven.
Because it's deadly.
To go through detox foralcoholism is deadlier than
(21:08):
going through detox forsubstances otherwise, and we
raised our hand to do it and wedo it incredibly well.
Why is that important?
We've seen a rise.
We've seen a rise in alcoholismsince the pandemic, with one
among all groups, but you know,the rise has been most
(21:31):
significant with women.
We're seeing crack cocaine,cocaine and cocaine making a
comeback and our clients aretelling us the primary reason is
cheaper, in addition to heroin,but it's cheaper.
These are the things that we'reseeing.
(21:53):
So fentanyl gets mixed intothese pills.
Fentanyl gets mixed into allkinds of substances.
It's sort of like the supplierit's killing their demand.
So are we grateful for thingslike Narcan?
Absolutely we are, because weknow it's helping to save lives.
But there's another side.
(22:13):
There's a dark side to Narcantoo.
As much as it is saving lives.
It's empowering a smallpercentage of them to try to get
to the next level of their highbecause they know Narcan is
nearby.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
So it can like X out what they're doing.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
It can, but it's all dependent.
They're taking a real seriousgamble and risk.
They're taking a real seriousgamble and risk.
And so when we think aboutsubstance use and mental health,
even at Mary Haven, you know,most people know us for
alcoholism, illicit drugdetoxification, co-sort of dual
diagnosed with mental health.
But we also do gambling andgaming, and so people who are
(22:55):
addicted to just playing onlineracing games and all the other
kinds of things well, gambling,do you know?
Since online sports betting hasgone in, our call volume has
quadrupled.
We have people now coming inmore for residential treatment
because they have to completelydetach themselves from their
realities and their worlds.
We've had people lose sixfigures, and these are not what
(23:18):
most people this is not thetypical person you might think
of that goes to Vegas.
No, these are type Apersonality business leaders.
These are unassumingindividuals and, yes, it's even
students who are losing it all.
And the highest rate of suicidefor any level of mental health
and substance use is guess whichone Gambling.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Well, because if you lose that type of money, you
kind of feel like you're.
Is that why?
Because, like, oh my God, Ijust lost my whole savings and
you go into like a yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
It is all of the above and it's also the shame
and the stigma and everythingthat is associated with it.
If you can imagine having towalk back in and tell your
family you just lost a house, oryou just lost a job, or
everybody's got to get out ofhere because that bookie is now
coming for you, I mean, all ofthese dynamics are real.
(24:13):
This is not fake, this is not amovie, this is not a syndicated
show.
This is reality.
Our counselors at Mary Haven,we've been doing this.
We were the first in the stateand we've been doing it since
2009.
We're nationally recognized forthe work that we do around
gambling treatment and recoveryand prevention because we do a
(24:37):
lot of education around it.
But once you make the toolsmore accessible and easy, my
gosh.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
So the whole mental health component.
I mean you guys have reallytalented counselors and like,
what would you say about youknow what comes first a chicken
or the egg?
And I know it's different foryou know it's different for
different people.
But it's like, well, am Imentally unwell and that's why
I'm using drugs, or I'm usingdrugs and it's making me
mentally unwell.
It's like this whole Rubik'scube to try to figure out.
(25:08):
But you guys are like doingsuch a great job of trying to
help people parse out like thehow to become mentally well.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
That's a great question and I will tell you
it's so unique for everyindividual.
You could be so mentally stableand go to a party and did not
know that someone put somethingin your drink or put something
in that cigarette or putsomething in that pill and the
next thing you know, your worldhas radically changed.
You may not know that when youwent to that party and you
(25:45):
picked up that beer or thatspirit in that glass and you
took that sip, you may not haveunderstood, because maybe no one
told you that in your lineagethere was alcoholism and
therefore you werepredispositioned genetically
where all it could take is thatvery first sip and now you're
addicted.
So these things are prevalent.
(26:06):
You may not know that you werealready born with some level of
a mental health issue and or putin an environment and or the
result of some trauma.
Now here you are battling it.
Imagine being a teenage, younglady who gets raped.
She's going to wrestle withthat.
(26:29):
Her life could have been greatup until that moment.
And for some of them, what dothey do?
They start to turn to otherthings to try to calm the noise
in their head.
So there is no one answer.
It's the chicken and the egg insome respects and trying to
figure out how do you get tothat?
(26:51):
Because the most importantthing that our counselors do is
try to get to where's thecatalyst, because if you don't
get to that, you will eventuallyrepeat it.
So how do we identify it, howdo we recognize it?
And now, how do we work throughit and start getting your life
back on track?
I mean, we've had a number ofincredible stories of people who
(27:12):
have come through, who hit rockbottom and then years later
come back and say, well, I hitrock bottom again.
Well, did they hit their realrock bottom?
Because relapse is real.
On average, it takes peopleseven times before they kick the
habits, seven times.
Our counselors are gifted,we're gifted, grateful to be
(27:35):
able to provide the servicessince 1953, starting with women
who in the 50s, the 40s and 50sa radical notion the nuns said
we need a place where women whowere battling alcoholism could
go and get care, because thecommunity said that's not an
issue.
Oh heck, yeah, it was.
And it grew and grew.
(27:59):
And so here we are today.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
And I bet the demographic in there.
You know cause you'd like tothink you want to like, push,
like.
Oh, it's not, I'm not that like, that's for other people,
that's for like a differentpopulation.
I guarantee there's women justlike me in there.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Men just like you and I mean that's we, absolutely.
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Speaker 2 (30:17):
You know there used to be this saying six degrees of
separation.
I emphatically go out and saythat does not exist when it
comes to mental health andsubstance use.
I tell you it's probably lessthan two.
And if you don't know theperson in your family, then it
just means you don't know.
(30:38):
But I'm going to tell youthere's probably someone either
it's your immediate or extendedfamily that is dealing with one
of these two value propositionsNeighbors, coworkers.
I've talked to people who toldme I was a functioning alcoholic
at work.
No one knew it.
I knew exactly how to hide itand where to hide it and what to
drink so you couldn't smell it.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
Imagine that which I don't this whole not being able
to smell it like even like vodka.
You can smell that shit, don'tyou?
Speaker 2 (31:03):
think, oh, it depends .
It depends.
There are some people who arereally gifted and knowing how to
cover some things up, maybe Igot a little like a good sniffer
on me.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
I'm like I don't know about that.
I smell a little something,something yeah, I mean for.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
I mean for some.
That is true, some of that'strue.
But you also got to think aboutthe times too.
Back in the 60s, 70s and 80s,it was acceptable to have a
drink when you would go out atwork.
The 90s not so much, andcertainly not now if you're
during the work hours.
So they started to find ways.
You may smell it if it's purevodka, but what if they watered
(31:36):
it down?
True, and most of them know howto navigate tequilas and vodkas
and other kinds of things towater it down to the point you
don't smell it.
That's true.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
Now, what about you personally?
Did you ever struggle with anykind of addiction?
Speaker 2 (31:50):
Most people know me, as my addiction is running.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
So I was going to get to that.
You really like you've got,you've clocked a lot of miles, A
lot of miles.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
But I will say personally no, I do not have an
addiction, but I empathize andsympathize because of what my
father went through and whatI've seen some other family
members and friends go through,but I am not addicted.
But my addiction is running.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
But are you a hard stop Like, will you have a drink
?
Speaker 2 (32:18):
You have a bourbon, I am also known and so you know
I've had this conversation manya times.
Just to help people betterunderstand.
There is a line between thosewho can consume with great
responsibility and then thereare those that the minute they
have the drink, their body andtheir mind and spirit is totally
into that alcohol or whateverit happens to be.
(32:39):
So, yes, I am known for havinga good bourbon.
On occasion it's one of mygo-tos if I do go out and have a
beverage.
But I also recognize that I amvery much sensitive to the work
that we do and ensuring thatpeople understand that it's okay
to do things with greatmoderation and responsibility,
(33:00):
but also being sensitive in somerespects to the plight that
others are going through.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
So running is like your.
Oh my gosh, yes, if youcouldn't run, you'd have some
problems.
You'd be like, you'd have tolike figure out, like mall walk
or something.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Let's just say I ended up with COVID twice.
I still ran.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
I had a couple of things where it was just like
just the stressful moments.
I still run.
It is literally a great releasefor me.
But it's also been like thiswhen I say it's an addiction, I
get the runners high, as mostpeople would say.
So when I complete a marathon,there are moments and I laugh
about this with people.
I say, when I'm running amarathon, depending on how I'm
(33:43):
feeling for it.
There's moments I'm like, ohman, this is going to be great.
And then I can get to mile 18and be like this totally sucks.
And then when I get to 26.2,I'm like, sign me up for the
next, right.
So I mean it's truly anaccomplishment.
It feels good.
It's the one thing that I knowthat I can do that benefits me
and myself and helps me feelgood, stay in good shape, all
(34:04):
those wonderful things.
But I also have come to learncan be a bit of inspiration for
others, because I do know thatthere are other people who watch
me, other people who have takenup running or at least have
gone out and started walking orhave taken a different look at
their health, because they saidhe runs every day.
Do you run every day, Everysingle day, Seven days a week.
(34:25):
Seven days a week what times?
So it varies.
Most times I will run in themorning, Sometimes I will run in
the evening.
It just depends on what my daywill look like, and I will
usually run about a 5K a day, itjust depends, and much longer
on the weekends.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
How much longer on the weekends?
Speaker 2 (34:41):
On the weekends I can get up to 20 plus miles a day.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
Okay, so I'm going to challenge you All, right, okay.
So where's the strengthtraining?
Speaker 2 (34:50):
The strength training .
So core is not my strongest yet.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
So you got to work on that.
You needed some weights For allthe runners.
I love this running for you.
I love the cardiovascular, Ilove it.
But you've got to get somestrength training in.
You've got to start throwing upsome weight.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
That's true For a period of time I was.
This is my excuse and excuseswe know are Like assholes
everyone's got one Bingo.
Being busy, I've got to startintegrating more time in.
So I'm actually a part of agroup with one of my
fraternities and everybodyencourages each other and talk
about what you got to do interms of strength training, core
(35:27):
work except exercise and soforth.
So I've taken some of thatadvice.
I just got to apply it a little.
I'm gonna.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
I'm gonna push that on you.
I'm telling you, especially aswe age, we age.
I mean, you're still young,you're still young.
Thank you for that too, butlisten, I mean the strength
training and it's great for yourbrain.
Yes, it is Obviously, just likethe whole, the balance, the
agility, muscle mass, bonedensity you got to.
You know, throw that in there.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
That's true, that is true.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
You didn't know I was going to try to school you on
your you're like, listen to me,I'm running all the time.
I'm great, I'm like ah, you gotto mix that shit up.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
I am totally open to good advice and reminders
because, you're absolutely right, I mean good, solid runners.
They have strength training intheir program.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Now?
Do you get any injuriesanywhere?
How are your knees, how areyour ankles?
Speaker 2 (36:22):
Very early on.
Everything hurt it when I firststarted running, because the
body is adjusting, and then fora period in time I was okay, and
then on occasion, somethingwould start to feel a little
wonky and, to your point, alittle bit earlier.
Most of the times where my bodywould say, hey, you're not
doing what you're supposed to do, it's usually because I didn't
do my stretching before or mystretching afterwards.
It's like I just went out, Iran and then jumped right into
whatever it is I was going to dofor the day, and so those
(36:43):
things can eventually catch upto you, and that has happened to
me on a couple of times.
The thing with me is I'm aconsistent runner, so there's
periods and times where I've runlike 14, 15, 16 marathons a
year.
So training-wise I'm always inshape and in mode for it, and so
I try to maintain that.
(37:03):
So it has reduced the level ofinjury because I've always been
in active mode.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
Are you single?
Speaker 2 (37:11):
I am engaged.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
Oh, okay, you're betrothed.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
I am engaged and so, yeah, I was married for 24 years
.
My ex, she is an incrediblylovely person.
She has gifted intellectually,she's done a lot, we have three
wonderful kids together, anamazing, amazing human being.
But like anything else, lifejourney, sometimes it just
diverges, and so for us therewas a divergence and so since
(37:37):
then I have met an incrediblewoman.
She is also I will call herco-CEO, so she runs another
nonprofit here in Central Ohio.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
Okay, does she need to remain nameless?
Speaker 2 (37:49):
No, she doesn't, Rachel Lustig.
I think most people know Allright All right, she is the CEO
over at Lutheran Social Services.
So, yes, she is the CEO over atLutheran Social Services, and I
decided, we decided, I guess,or God decided, so I am back in
the child business again.
So we have a three and a half,soon to be four month old.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
Okay, so little Ava.
I love that for you Childnumber four?
Speaker 2 (38:14):
When are you getting married?
So, working through all of that, okay.
Well, yeah, you have a numberfour.
When are you getting married?
Speaker 1 (38:19):
So working through all of that TBD you have a young
one, so that kind of puts allthe wedded bliss to the side for
a little bit.
Good for you, that's incredible.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
It's a blessing to be a blessing, it's all the
wonderful things.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
You know, I have a 19-month-old.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
Do you?
Speaker 1 (38:36):
And a six-and-a-half-year-old.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
Awesome Girls boys, A boy and a girl.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
Oh, okay, I'm in the thick.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
You're in there.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
Okay, think about this before we end the Mary
Haven conversation.
Any other points that?
So the only other thing that Iwould share relative to Mary
Haven?
Speaker 2 (38:58):
just so that people understand is that we are Ohio's
oldest, largest and mostcomprehensive behavioral health
care provider period.
And I say that We've beenrecognized by Newsweek on a
national stage because we dosubstance use disorder, mental
health and we work with thehomeless population.
(39:19):
So we have mid and the entireMidwest.
We have the only diversionprogram where, instead of police
officers taking individualsdown to the county jails or down
to the city jail, they bringthem over to us and we take care
of them to get them detoxed offof alcohol.
So can you imagine that?
Speaker 1 (39:40):
Yeah, I mean what's going on with the homeless
population too?
Speaker 2 (39:44):
This is unprecedented times.
What we're looking at and whatwe're seeing with sheltering
needs are just compounding andthe pressure that exists out
there for domestic violenceshelters and the pressure that
exists out there for domesticviolence.
Shelters for just generalfamily shelters for women who
(40:05):
are single with kids, sheltersfor men who are in need of
shelters.
Youth we have some of the bestyouth sheltering systems, I
would say, in the country, butwe are all squeezed right now.
We are under tremendous amountof pressure with resources and
needs.
The community will see somehomeless camps, they will see
some individuals, but whatyou've got to understand is
(40:27):
they're also in places that youdon't see, and it's not just
under bridges and in camps.
Some of these folk are couchsurfing and you may go.
Well, that's not homeless.
Yeah, actually it is, becausethey're living in environments
and situations that are verytenuous at best or they are
sleeping in some of the mostdeplorable conditions, and what
we're trying to do is give thema sense of a place where they
(40:48):
can find some hope and findoutlets and start to get their
lives on track.
There are people living out oftheir cars.
They're what we call theworking homeless lives on track.
There are people living out oftheir cars.
They're what we call theworking homeless.
They can't afford where theyused to live because the
landlord took their rent from$600 a month to $1,800 a month
and they're like I can't affordthat.
(41:09):
One of our city council memberstalked about her very own
experience of having to do that.
So this is real and it's notjust an urban issue.
Mary Haven serves 78 of Ohio's88 counties.
We see homelessness in ruralAmerica People who sleep out in
(41:30):
the woods, people who sleep inbroken down cars, people who
find places just to lay theirhead for the night because that
community may not have an activesheltering program.
Do you know there are stilleight counties in Ohio that do
not offer sheltering?
Speaker 1 (41:50):
No, and why?
Just because no one's got timeto do it, or resources.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
Unfortunately it's.
Some people, some places, somecommunities don't think it's an
issue and in some areas they mayperceive that to be right
because the numbers may notsuggest it.
The numbers don't suggest itbecause those people have found
places to go, which is usuallyin the woods, and they're not
(42:20):
being counted or they're notreporting and so therefore you
don't see it.
But yeah, it's there, it's veryactive and we work with the
homeless.
We actually partner up with thecommunity shelter board, adam H
, franklin County, adam H Boardsthroughout the entire state and
for our diversion program,which we've had other cities
(42:42):
come in to try to figure out howto replicate.
For our diversion program we'vehad about a 45% placement
success rate.
That is phenomenal.
That means for those homelessindividuals who come to our
engagement center and they'reintoxicated and they're in need
of help, we've been able to helpthat percentage of them go out
(43:03):
to find rapid rehousing orpermanent to supportive housing,
getting them off the street.
Now the days and the time lengthhas increased.
If we had had this conversationabout six years ago I would say
we were able to do that inunder 27 days.
Today it's taken on average 120plus days to find housing.
(43:27):
So Mary Haven is a gift, it isa jewel, it is a landmark, it is
a staple in this community.
The folk that work at MaryHaven care.
They show up every day withtheir experience and their
passion to help other people.
We serve more than justsubstance use and mental health.
(43:47):
We have the homelessness.
We work with youth.
We have kids in our programbattling substance use and
mental health under the age offive and no, not all of them
were born that way.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
How does that happen?
Speaker 2 (44:08):
I'd hate to say it, but let's just face it.
Not everybody's going to be thebest in their situations and
they end up exposing their kidsto things that they shouldn't.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
Like what percentage?
Like how often do you see that?
Speaker 2 (44:26):
More than I care to say.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
You guys are doing the Lord's work.
Mary Haven truly is.
I mean, it's unbelievable and Ithink everyone just needs to.
You know, know it and see itand help and contribute.
I don't know.
I sit here and I think tomyself.
You know what I'm thinking.
Of course I'm thinking about me.
It's all coming back to me.
Why am I not doing more?
(44:50):
How can I help?
I need to go to the openshelter.
My friend Molly is always doingthe lunches.
I'm like we can all do so muchmore.
That's one of the great partsof sitting with someone like you
.
It's like such a reminder thatwe are also capable and able to
(45:10):
serve and help.
And why are we not?
Speaker 2 (45:13):
Carrie, I'm so grateful that you brought that
up, because the reality is ispeople tend to think well,
you're a fee for serviceorganization, you're billing
Medicaid, you're billinginsurance, they'll be able to
reimburse you, and the realityis is we get pennies on the
dollars in terms of total coststructure that comes back.
In fact, it has been a struggleto be able to keep up because
we are a safety net organization, which means we don't turn
(45:34):
anyone away, regardless of theirability to pay.
So we end up having to eat thatdebt and have to go out and
find ways to fundraise to offsetthat debt so that we can
continue this journey andprovide these services, because
it's not going away.
As much as I'd love to say,we'd love to close the doors of
Mary Haven because there's nolonger a need.
(45:56):
There's always going to be aneed.
There are stressors in thisworld that put people into a
mental health or mental illnessstatus.
Put people into a mental healthor mental illness status.
There are always going to bepeople who are going to go out,
have themselves a good time andnot realize some idiot did
something to their food or theirbeverage and now they're
(46:17):
wrestling with that.
These things are realities, andso we need help at Mary Haven.
We need resources, we needpeople to come and volunteer.
We've had groups from manyorganizations nationwide
insurance, you name it that havecome in and volunteered at our
program where we house our womenand families.
They go in, they read to thekids.
(46:37):
We've had elected officialscome in, talk with them, like
literally sit down and helpadvocate for their needs.
So we need folk to just give adamn, I'll come in.
I welcome you.
Speaker 1 (46:49):
I'll do.
I will you tell me what I needto do and I will come in.
Speaker 2 (46:53):
We welcome you.
Come and talk to them.
Speaker 1 (46:55):
Yeah, I would love to come and talk to them and I
think we need to put that outtoo about, like, how can people
help, because I know that it'snot for a lack of people caring.
I know that it's not for a lackof people caring.
I know there's a lot of us inthis community alone that I've
had the honor to be a part of.
People care a lot.
I think it's just putting thethings in front of them Like
(47:16):
here's what you can do.
This is how you can help.
Speaker 2 (47:18):
Absolutely.
We've had some remarkablepeople come through, see the
facility, talk about the workthat we do and because this
person that shared it verypublicly, I'll share it as well.
We've had a billionaire in ourstate actually come through the
facility and he talked about hisown travels with addiction and
you know, he literally said if Ihad known more about Mary Haven
(47:42):
I would have just come here,because when I look at and I see
what you all have done and theservices that you're providing,
there are places that we've paidto go talking about himself
where it was $40,000, $70,000 amonth.
Yes, you got the private chef,you got the private doctor and
all those things, but that wasit.
(48:05):
But did they really dig in andhelp, really reset you as a
person?
You all care and you set up thesystem to show that you care.
And he said I would have paidgladly to come here and so he's
working with us to help us as westart thinking about more
outreach with this work.
But that doesn't mean peopleneed to stop.
(48:27):
He's just simply saying how canhe help by being what you just
said?
How can he come in and be anadvocate?
How can he come in and justtalk with people, be a sponsor
for those that have already beendown that journey.
Speaker 1 (48:43):
Put me on the roster.
Speaker 2 (48:44):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (48:45):
I'm serious and I already have an idea what I can
do.
Awesome, okay, anything elsebefore we wrap up this?
I mean I could sit with you forat least a day.
Speaker 2 (48:57):
You know, we started this by talking about being a
servant leader and being a CEOand all these wonderful things,
and I come back to the humblesort of position around this.
I wouldn't be sitting here.
Be it for, but not for, thosefive right.
What I also share is, in thisjourney, much like anything else
(49:19):
, when you're trying to do good,there's sacrifice.
We all have to sacrifice,whether it's your time, whether
it's the parties, whatever it is, you're going to end up
sacrificing something in orderto be able to better your
position.
My assumption is, kerry, atsome point in your journey to
get to where you are doing thisincredible work, you've had to
(49:41):
sacrifice, something we all do.
I went and sacrificed to goback to get my MBA and I did
that in part because of anothergentleman I will call number six
.
There was actually seven, butI'll call him number six right
now and that's Eskel Curl.
So Eskel Curl, for those outthere in the world at State Farm
, knew this man as just beingjust such a genuine leader, like
(50:03):
he cared.
I worked at State Farm for 10years and the culture and the
motto at the time was all aboutthe people.
And how do you empower thepeople and get them going,
because if you can enrich theirlives, they will enrich the
policyholders' lives and theagents' lives and so forth.
And so when I was there, I wasa bit courageous and bold at
(50:26):
various times and in about1999-ish I went to Eskel.
I saw him walking down the hallone day and I mean, he's a
stately figure, always dressedin a suit, I mean like one of
those people you go, man, when Igrow up I just want to be like
him, right.
And so, and I stopped him inthe hallway and I took a very
(50:46):
bold moment and I said Eskel,one of these days I want to be
where you are.
I want to be in the seat thatyou sit in.
Now, hearing that from someonethat's on we'll call it the
lower end scale of the spectrumin the organization, he could
have taken that any direction.
(51:06):
But Esco looked at me and hesaid Oyama, which I was
surprised.
He even knew my name, becausehe didn't have it A hundred
percent.
He knew my name.
He said Oyama, if you want tobe in the seat that I sit in,
you have to learn the languagethat we speak in the boardroom.
And that was it.
(51:29):
And I took that and I said youhave got to be kidding me.
So basically I slept on it fora little while and what he said
was you've got to learn to speakthe language of business,
because in the boardroom they'renot talking about the claim and
the execution of Ohio RevisedCoals on the front lines.
They're talking strategy andvision and economics and
(51:51):
implications of what happens inthe economy and all these things
and how that impacts thebusiness and the competitive
landscape.
And so it was in that momentthat I decided I needed to go
back to school.
And I kept thinking to myselfhow in the hell am I going to
make time for that?
I'm working full time.
At the time, my wife was inschool full time, you know,
(52:15):
going off studying to be adentist, I mean like all of
these dynamics.
And I was like there's just noway.
And then I was like well, youknow what my mom did it?
She found time raising two kids.
Surely I can create the time,but there's a sacrifice.
I've got to give up some stuff,and I did.
And so I went back, got my MBAat Franklin University, which I
(52:37):
highly highly encourage peopleto explore.
About 18, 20 plus-ish months Igraduated and walked across that
stage with my MBA, paid for itmyself, and I will never forget
because after I got it I went toEskel's office after I got an
appointment and I went and Ithanked him and I said I'm
(53:00):
grateful for the fact that youtold me that, because now I've
had the unique experiencethrough my program at Franklin.
I put together business plans.
In fact I put together anexpansion business plan for the
solder wood making company to goto take their product to
Australia, because at the timethey were not in Australia.
The company actually wanted mybusiness plan.
That's how incrediblythoughtful it was.
(53:23):
That's how incrediblythoughtful it was and my company
at that point, state Farm, tooknote of that and my career
started taking off.
So it's moments like that thatmake a difference.
It's moments like that wherepeople can share a word with you
, a reflective, and you neverknow what fire it ignites or
(53:47):
where it leads you in life.
But I've taken that to heart tosay, if I ever found myself in
those unique moments, to use itwisely.
Speaker 1 (53:58):
And I say the lesson there, too, is seizing an
opportunity.
Oh my God, you know how manypeople would have had the balls
to stop the guy in the firstplace.
I mean, that's my message outthere.
Like, listen, like, seize youropportunity, man, when, when you
have the chance to stand out ormake a difference or, you know,
put yourself out there,differentiate yourself, take it.
Speaker 2 (54:17):
That's what you did.
I seized the moment.
It put me on radar.
Speaker 1 (54:22):
Put you on the map.
Speaker 2 (54:22):
I did what I needed to do and I equipped myself and
I will tell you I have notlooked back since.
It has been a wonderful,wonderful journey.
Speaker 1 (54:30):
Grateful, I love that , absolutely grateful.
Well, I'm grateful that youcame in to share this with me.
I am just ready.
I'm ready to go.
I don't know what.
I'm going to go seeing me atMary Haven, trust me.
Absolutely, I'm telling you,it's going to happen.
And if you're still out therefollowing your girl, follow me
on YouTube, Spotify, Apple orwherever you get your podcasts.
(54:52):
And until next time, Google,Mary Haven.
Go to the tab where it saysVolunteer Opportunities.
We'll put some stuff out theretoo, and let's help these folks
and keep moving baby.
Thank you, Thank you and golisten to Tupac.
Hey there you beautiful badass.
Welcome to the Keri Croft Show.
I'm your host, keri Croft,delivering you stories that get
you pumped up and feeling likethe unstoppable savage that you
are.
So grab your coffee, put onyour game face and let's do this
thing.
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(01:13):
Croft Show for $100 off yourMoxie treatment.
Don't say I've never doneanything for you.
Some people, you get them inhere and they're like, oh, what
the fuck's?
happening All of a sudden.
I'm nervous.
I'm like why are you fuckingnervous?
I'm a knucklehead, you're aknucklehead.
Let's just like have a chat,right.
I love it so anyway, we arehere to have fun, to get to know
, each other.
Let's do it and the fact thatthere are cameras here.
(01:34):
That's just all secondary.
Awesome, handsome I don't evenknow what just walked in in a
suit.
Welcome to the Keri Croft Show.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Well, thank you, thank you, thank you for having
me.
I'm excited about this.
I'm pumped.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
I like your energy.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Oh hey, same I'm feeling it.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
I'm feeling something happening here.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
It's the whole aura thing right.
There is an aura Right.
And then you see, of Tupac, andI was like you've got to be
kidding me.
So I am born and raised inBaltimore, maryland, and so my
cousin actually went to schoolwith Tupac.
He was a few years ahead of me,and so at Dunbar High School,
paul Alonso, dunbar CommunityHigh School you've got to say it
that way right, the Ohio StateUniversity and then he also went
(02:23):
to the Baltimore City Schoolfor Performing Arts, and so one
of my cousins was actually goodfriends with him way back in the
day and also knew Jada Pinkettfor a period in time.
So yeah, it's wild, I love thatit's wild.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
So you would pick Tupac over Biggie.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
then if I made you pick one, you know the lyrical
genius that comes from a manlike Tupac and his life's
experience and what he wastrying to educate people on.
You know, no matter what yourposition is, I mean, the man was
gifted, absolutely gifted.
(02:57):
Now Biggie different dynamicright.
I view that more as a club vibeand scene.
Whereas Tupac was a poet, hewas a prophet in my mind Touche,
touche, he's my man.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Like right now in my head.
I'm like, still, I see nochanges.
All I see is racist faces.
Wake up in the morning and Iask him it's right?
It's like you know, like he wason the grind.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Could you imagine Tupac alive today in this
current?
Speaker 1 (03:29):
climate.
Well, yes, and I wish he wasalive.
I still miss him.
Can I tell you this how manyphotos I have of Tupac in my
house?
Speaker 2 (03:37):
How many?
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Probably four or five , like more than my children.
Wow, wow.
I'm a different breed.
I love it.
You know what I'm saying.
So, oyama, before we get sweptaway in each other's energy, you
are the CEO of Mary Haven.
Yes, you're a big old CEO, huh.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
You know it is a gift and it is certainly a humbling
opportunity to be able to servein such a capacity, because the
reality is, when we think aboutsubstance use disorder and
mental health, most people don'twant to talk about it.
And so the ability to serve foran organization that has had a
legacy, now standing for 72years in this community doing, I
(04:21):
like to say, god's work Right,this is an opportunity to reach
out and help people get theirlives back on track.
Well, guess what?
Most people don't want to talkabout it.
Back in the day, that cousinwould have stayed in the back
room, that family member wouldhave never had anyone talking
about them and likely would havenever pursued help.
So the ability for me, acorporate guy, to come into the
(04:45):
nonprofit space and to beinvited into the nonprofit space
, to be able to use the platformand to articulate what it means
to release and free yourselfand go and get help, absolutely
the title is the title.
It's the work that matters more.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Amen.
Did somebody transport me tochurch?
What I mean?
Where am I?
I just got, I don't even know.
I'm like swept up in this man.
I am swept up in you and Ithink that you know.
You look at your background,right.
You came from poverty.
You didn't't have anything, andso you, having that background,
(05:27):
yeah, oh my gosh, you broughtit very, you were gonna talk
about this.
So this is the last food stampvery that you had when you were
how old?
Speaker 2 (05:35):
so that was 1987.
So gosh, I would have been, Ifeel like about 13 ish now, did
you bring that for this?
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Did you always keep that with you, or did you bring
that?
Speaker 2 (05:45):
So I brought it today just because, for me, when I go
out and I talk on varioustopics and knowing that we would
likely have a conversationaround my upbringing, I like to
remind people just because, asyou asked a question earlier
about being the CEO, justbecause you see people in their
current setting, it doesn'talways mean you know their story
and you don't know theirbackdrop right.
And so for me, I came fromnothing.
(06:07):
I came from needing a handoutto being in a position where I
can help other people.
You know, I like to say it'slike that moment in Hamilton
when they talk about being inthe room where it happens.
So I've gone from being on theoutside, not ever knowing
anything about that room, to nowbeing in that room, to now
being in that room and how muchbetter does that make you being
(06:28):
in the room it keeps me?
grounded.
It helps me understand how Ican better help people, yeah,
and it helps me stay connectedand to the same accord.
I understand the struggle, sofor me, absolutely, so I had to
bring it.
Yeah, I love that so.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
So take me back a little bit when you were growing
up like that and you were onfood stamps and you didn't have
a pot to piss in.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Yeah, so I come from a single parent household, right
?
So I want to be very clearthat's not every
African-American male story, butI did come from a single family
household.
My mother graduated Well, Ishouldn't say that my mother had
her first kid, my oldestdaughter, my oldest sister, when
(07:10):
she was 16.
And so she had to drop out ofhigh school, eventually went
back, got her GED and then hadme at 20, and then decided that
she needed to keep doing thatone thing that no one could take
away from her, but alsoinstilling her kids, and that
was education.
So she went back and she gother bachelor's degree, she got
(07:34):
two master's degrees, includingan MBA, and she was a few
credits away from a PhD, but shewas raising two knucklehead
kids.
So she showed us a path.
And you know, almostintentionally, when you think
about going back.
I grew up in Baltimore in theheight of the crack epidemic,
the height of poverty, theheight of just joblessness for
(07:54):
some people.
I mean, the city was thrivingin certain areas, but in others
it was not, and it was so easy,so easy for a young man like me
to fall victim, to fallsusceptible to what was
happening at the times.
But I had five people, fivepeople that I owe my life to,
(08:20):
five people.
That is my mother, who kept meaway from things and kept me out
of things.
Who kept me away from thingsand kept me out of things.
My uncle, alfonso Stith, whoserved as my surrogate father
even as he was coming up as ayoung man, but he knew that he
needed to make certain that hisnieces and nephews had a
positive figure and he workedhis ass off and he showed us
(08:42):
what it meant to be a man.
And then my cousins, two of themone who is here and one who has
passed.
And my oldest cousin, johnnyStiff, who, he will tell you, he
felt susceptible to the life,but the one thing he saw in me
he said you have a brain and Iwill never, ever allow you to
(09:03):
get involved in any of this.
And if I hear anybody even tryto pull you in, they're going to
answer to me.
And the same thing went with mycousin Carlinzo.
And the fifth person actuallywas myself.
And the only reason I say that?
Because if I didn't have enoughbelief and didn't have enough
grounding and foundation, Istill could have taken all those
(09:25):
paths, and this guy you seesitting here today, wouldn't be
here, could be locked up, couldbe dead, who knows?
Because I lost a lot of friendsalong the way.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
You know, I love that .
You said myself and I want togive you a little clap for that.
You know that thing.
Like I want to thank me, butpeople don't do that enough
because we're not supposed to.
It sounds like oh, you can't,you're arrogant or you're this I
.
I feel like there is such um alack like everyone's so
self-deprecating.
You're the only person in theworld that you can't get away
(09:56):
from, so like you need to begiving yourself some accolades
and holding yourself accountableand thanking yourself when you
deserve it.
So I love that you saidyourself.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
You got to take some level of ownership.
I think we pass it off too muchand it's okay to say you know
what I did, that you know, I sawit, I seized it, I understood
it and it's okay.
You do it without arrogance isthe best way to describe it.
Do you remember going to thegrocery store and using food
(10:31):
stamps?
I do, and in fact my mom wouldsend my sister and I down there
and we'd have the book and ifyou didn't have the book you
couldn't buy anything with thefive and tens.
You could only buy thingswithout the book, with the one.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Were you so used to it or were you ashamed?
Or did you know where you'relike?
Okay, we're different, likewe're using food stamps.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
So, depending on who was in the store, for the most
part I was a little bitindifferent to it because I was
young and a kid and it was kindof all I really knew.
But then, yeah, that wasactually other people who would
tease us or tease others becausethey were using food stamps.
And then it was later on Irealized, well, some of them
(11:03):
were using it too.
So it was kind of like, why areyou teasing me if you're using
it?
But it was that sort of thatmentality at the time.
But you know, later on I willtell you, as I navigated through
middle school and high school,I was a bit more ashamed of it
because I didn't want people tothink that I didn't have
anything because my mom workedhard and she did everything she
(11:25):
could to provide something forus.
I mean, I've got countlessstories.
I mean stories where I mean Ibarely had good quality tennis
shoes to put on my feet becausemom had to pay the bills, and it
was either pay the bills or tryto put shoes on Oyama's feet,
and so I would wear tatted upshoes and get teased.
And so I would wear tatted upshoes and get teased.
(11:46):
But you know what, here I sittoday, and so, yeah, I mean it
was a bit of shame, but today Idon't mind talking about it.
And it wasn't simply because Imoved up in corporate America.
I started having thisconversation when I was in
college to help stay grounded.
So, yeah, what?
Speaker 1 (12:00):
did, your mom do.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
So my mom was a financial aid assistant director
over at Morgan State Universityand at Coppin State, then it
was College, now University.
Okay, because you had talkedabout carpal tunnel about her
getting like.
Oh, that was such a change.
That was a game changer in herlife and ours.
Because she, if you think aboutit, back then they measured you
(12:24):
based on how many words youcould type a minute, how fast,
and I mean like all of thatstuff, and there wasn't a lot of
support around these new thingsand dynamics that were kind of
coming about, and carpal tunnelsyndrome was one of them, and
eventually her hands got lockedup to the point where she could
hardly use them.
And eventually her hands gotlocked up to the point where she
(12:45):
could hardly use them.
And imagine being a singlewoman at that time and you can't
use your hands.
Who's hiring you?
What workers comp are yougetting?
How do you support your familyat that point?
So it became challenging andshe worked through a lot of that
, along with pain that came inas a result of it.
So you know, kudos to her.
(13:07):
She's now.
She passed.
Last year it was a tough time.
2024 was a tough time.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
That reminds me of another Tupac song.
Dear Mama, you are appreciated.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
She laid a foundation of service for me, that and my
sister that we are foreverindebted on.
She would give food from herown pantry to people, give
clothes that she knew otherswould need.
She would provide free taxservices to folk because she was
a CPA so she could do that.
(13:40):
She did all these wonderfulthings to just help out other
individuals and their families.
How can you not get that inyour heart and try to carry that
on?
Speaker 1 (13:50):
And now here you are today with this type of
background, all the empathy andunderstanding.
You have such a great lens tobe doing what you're doing.
So you have the corporateAmerica background.
You came up with nothing.
I started from the bottom.
Now we're here.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
I just keep going back to the hip hop I can't stop
.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
It's like a, it's like a thing, and so you know.
Do you feel like you could notbe in a more perfect position
right now to to serve people insuch a great capacity?
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Yeah, there's, there's.
There are moments in life we'reall going to have them, and so
for me, sometimes you're movingthrough life and you may forget,
and then there's a moment thathappens that recalls it.
For me, the reason I sit herein this seat today, on the
nonprofit side, and inparticular at Mary Haven, I will
(14:42):
say it's twofold, and inparticular at Mary Haven, I will
say it's twofold One prior toeven really looking into the
work at Mary Haven, after Ireceived the call about the
opportunity, I never even reallythought too much about my
life's experience on my father'sside.
So by the time I got to know myfather, which was much later in
(15:02):
life, I'd come to learn so muchabout the addiction that he
struggled with.
But as a kid I did have somegeneralized interactions and in
those interactions, when hewould pick me up and we would go
to places sometimes it was theAA meeting, but I didn't know
what it was.
I knew the AA prayer and Ithought that was the Lord's
(15:25):
prayer.
Right, but I cause, that waswhat I was exposed to.
And so his addiction aroundalcoholism and substance use
primarily was the result of hisservice and getting injured, and
it I mean it ravished his life.
You know, I really didn't trulyget to know the man until the
(15:46):
final years, but by that pointit was too late.
His body, his internals, hadalready been so beat up from
alcohol and drugs that in myfreshman year of college that
May he passed away.
So I had to go back and bury mydad, even though he was sober.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Was he so remorseful, did he have talks with you
about just wishing he could getthat time back?
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Absolutely.
I mean, he was so incrediblyproud of me I mean on his
deathbed, which I can stillenvision going over to my
grandmother's house and standingby his bed and I told him.
I said, dad, I want you to knowyour son is doing great in
college.
Here's where I'm at, here's myGPA, here's what I'm involved in
.
And I saw the tear come downhis eye because he couldn't
(16:39):
speak at this point.
And so I saw that and, as ayoung man, that just energized
me while at the same timecontinued to just ground me in
the future.
And so I share that storyfreely today.
But if you would have asked methis 10 years ago, I probably
would not have shared as much ofit because of stigmas, because
(17:02):
of thoughts around it and then,candidly, just not really
linking it back to who I am andwhat I'm trying to do in my
life's journey.
Martin Luther King said it bestwe are not here for self, we're
here to help other people.
No one cares about the 80 hoursyou put in, no one cares about
the millions you made.
They want to talk about theimpact you made on other
(17:24):
people's lives.
That's the living legacy andstory.
And so, for me, that's what I'maspiring to do.
And then the other catalyst youknow I'm not going to go into
great detail on today becausethen we'll all be in here crying
, but the other catalyst was mydaughter, my oldest daughter,
and what happened to her in 2016, when she lost her life in
(17:45):
Nationwide Children's Hospital,which I'm so forever indebted to
them was able to get her back.
But that moment was areflective moment again on
what's most valuable, what arewe really trying to achieve and
do in this life's journey?
And I got to tell you both ofthose things leading into the
(18:06):
nonprofit sector, knowing that Ican make so much more in the
for-profit sector, but here,every day, kerry, I wake up and
I know I'm doing some good,every single day.
You can't pay me enough,because I know that I am
impacting someone else's life ina positive way by just simply
(18:30):
helping to move the strategyforward, move the organization
forward, clear hurdles and pathsfor people who want to live
their passion and their legacy,and that is to just do some more
good.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
So let's talk, mary Haven.
I mean, I know there's anopioid epidemic, I know fentanyl
like the world's turnt.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
It's crazy.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
What are we seeing there?
What's happening?
Give me the current sort ofdynamics and state of the
environment.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
So when we think about addiction, we tend to
think the illicit drugs, um, andthen certainly the fake pills
and everything that's out there.
The biggest challenge withfentanyl is knowing that at one
point it was created for truemedical reasons and still is
prescribed for true medical usesand reasons.
(19:17):
But the synthetic forms of it,the illegal and illicit forms of
it, it's undetectable.
It's odorless, it's colorless,its potency is so intense that
the pen tip or the pencil headtip is all you need for most
(19:40):
people to eventually experiencewhat could lead to an overdose
versus massive quantities ofother types of illicit drugs.
Well, you would think it wouldstop there, but it doesn't.
So we now have people who breakinto veterinary clinics and
other types of places to try tofind xylosing, which is an
(20:00):
animal tranquilizer which isalmost a thousand times more
potent than fentanyl, and whenthey use it and they mix it and
inject it into their system, itcreates necrosis at the site of
the injection, which meanseventually that part will start
to blacken, darken and or couldeventually just completely decay
(20:22):
and could lead to death.
Why are people doing this?
Part of it is they're battlingmental health challenges and
they use substances likefentanyl and other types of
opioids or marijuana and forsome right, not everyone they
use these things to mask themental health issues that
(20:45):
they're facing.
And the same thing with alcoholand what we find and what we
know, because outside of thehospitals in central Ohio
there's only one other placeanyone can go to if they are in
massive alcohol withdrawal, andthat is Mary Haven.
Because it's deadly.
To go through detox foralcoholism is deadlier than
(21:08):
going through detox forsubstances otherwise, and we
raised our hand to do it and wedo it incredibly well.
Why is that important?
We've seen a rise.
We've seen a rise in alcoholismsince the pandemic, with one
among all groups, but you know,the rise has been most
(21:31):
significant with women.
We're seeing crack cocaine,cocaine and cocaine making a
comeback and our clients aretelling us the primary reason is
cheaper, in addition to heroin,but it's cheaper.
These are the things that we'reseeing.
(21:53):
So fentanyl gets mixed intothese pills.
Fentanyl gets mixed into allkinds of substances.
It's sort of like the supplierit's killing their demand.
So are we grateful for thingslike Narcan?
Absolutely we are, because weknow it's helping to save lives.
But there's another side.
(22:13):
There's a dark side to Narcantoo.
As much as it is saving lives.
It's empowering a smallpercentage of them to try to get
to the next level of their highbecause they know Narcan is
nearby.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
So it can like X out what they're doing.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
It can, but it's all dependent.
They're taking a real seriousgamble and risk.
They're taking a real seriousgamble and risk.
And so when we think aboutsubstance use and mental health,
even at Mary Haven, you know,most people know us for
alcoholism, illicit drugdetoxification, co-sort of dual
diagnosed with mental health.
But we also do gambling andgaming, and so people who are
(22:55):
addicted to just playing onlineracing games and all the other
kinds of things well, gambling,do you know?
Since online sports betting hasgone in, our call volume has
quadrupled.
We have people now coming inmore for residential treatment
because they have to completelydetach themselves from their
realities and their worlds.
We've had people lose sixfigures, and these are not what
(23:18):
most people this is not thetypical person you might think
of that goes to Vegas.
No, these are type Apersonality business leaders.
These are unassumingindividuals and, yes, it's even
students who are losing it all.
And the highest rate of suicidefor any level of mental health
and substance use is guess whichone Gambling.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Well, because if you lose that type of money, you
kind of feel like you're.
Is that why?
Because, like, oh my God, Ijust lost my whole savings and
you go into like a yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
It is all of the above and it's also the shame
and the stigma and everythingthat is associated with it.
If you can imagine having towalk back in and tell your
family you just lost a house, oryou just lost a job, or
everybody's got to get out ofhere because that bookie is now
coming for you, I mean, all ofthese dynamics are real.
(24:13):
This is not fake, this is not amovie, this is not a syndicated
show.
This is reality.
Our counselors at Mary Haven,we've been doing this.
We were the first in the stateand we've been doing it since
2009.
We're nationally recognized forthe work that we do around
gambling treatment and recoveryand prevention because we do a
(24:37):
lot of education around it.
But once you make the toolsmore accessible and easy, my
gosh.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
So the whole mental health component.
I mean you guys have reallytalented counselors and like,
what would you say about youknow what comes first a chicken
or the egg?
And I know it's different foryou know it's different for
different people.
But it's like, well, am Imentally unwell and that's why
I'm using drugs, or I'm usingdrugs and it's making me
mentally unwell.
It's like this whole Rubik'scube to try to figure out.
(25:08):
But you guys are like doingsuch a great job of trying to
help people parse out like thehow to become mentally well.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
That's a great question and I will tell you
it's so unique for everyindividual.
You could be so mentally stableand go to a party and did not
know that someone put somethingin your drink or put something
in that cigarette or putsomething in that pill and the
next thing you know, your worldhas radically changed.
You may not know that when youwent to that party and you
(25:45):
picked up that beer or thatspirit in that glass and you
took that sip, you may not haveunderstood, because maybe no one
told you that in your lineagethere was alcoholism and
therefore you werepredispositioned genetically
where all it could take is thatvery first sip and now you're
addicted.
So these things are prevalent.
(26:06):
You may not know that you werealready born with some level of
a mental health issue and or putin an environment and or the
result of some trauma.
Now here you are battling it.
Imagine being a teenage, younglady who gets raped.
She's going to wrestle withthat.
(26:29):
Her life could have been greatup until that moment.
And for some of them, what dothey do?
They start to turn to otherthings to try to calm the noise
in their head.
So there is no one answer.
It's the chicken and the egg insome respects and trying to
figure out how do you get tothat?
(26:51):
Because the most importantthing that our counselors do is
try to get to where's thecatalyst, because if you don't
get to that, you will eventuallyrepeat it.
So how do we identify it, howdo we recognize it?
And now, how do we work throughit and start getting your life
back on track?
I mean, we've had a number ofincredible stories of people who
(27:12):
have come through, who hit rockbottom and then years later
come back and say, well, I hitrock bottom again.
Well, did they hit their realrock bottom?
Because relapse is real.
On average, it takes peopleseven times before they kick the
habits, seven times.
Our counselors are gifted,we're gifted, grateful to be
(27:35):
able to provide the servicessince 1953, starting with women
who in the 50s, the 40s and 50sa radical notion the nuns said
we need a place where women whowere battling alcoholism could
go and get care, because thecommunity said that's not an
issue.
Oh heck, yeah, it was.
And it grew and grew.
(27:59):
And so here we are today.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
And I bet the demographic in there.
You know cause you'd like tothink you want to like, push,
like.
Oh, it's not, I'm not that like, that's for other people,
that's for like a differentpopulation.
I guarantee there's women justlike me in there.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Men just like you and I mean that's we, absolutely.
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Speaker 2 (30:17):
You know there used to be this saying six degrees of
separation.
I emphatically go out and saythat does not exist when it
comes to mental health andsubstance use.
I tell you it's probably lessthan two.
And if you don't know theperson in your family, then it
just means you don't know.
(30:38):
But I'm going to tell youthere's probably someone either
it's your immediate or extendedfamily that is dealing with one
of these two value propositionsNeighbors, coworkers.
I've talked to people who toldme I was a functioning alcoholic
at work.
No one knew it.
I knew exactly how to hide itand where to hide it and what to
drink so you couldn't smell it.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
Imagine that which I don't this whole not being able
to smell it like even like vodka.
You can smell that shit, don'tyou?
Speaker 2 (31:03):
think, oh, it depends .
It depends.
There are some people who arereally gifted and knowing how to
cover some things up, maybe Igot a little like a good sniffer
on me.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
I'm like I don't know about that.
I smell a little something,something yeah, I mean for.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
I mean for some.
That is true, some of that'strue.
But you also got to think aboutthe times too.
Back in the 60s, 70s and 80s,it was acceptable to have a
drink when you would go out atwork.
The 90s not so much, andcertainly not now if you're
during the work hours.
So they started to find ways.
You may smell it if it's purevodka, but what if they watered
(31:36):
it down?
True, and most of them know howto navigate tequilas and vodkas
and other kinds of things towater it down to the point you
don't smell it.
That's true.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
Now, what about you personally?
Did you ever struggle with anykind of addiction?
Speaker 2 (31:50):
Most people know me, as my addiction is running.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
So I was going to get to that.
You really like you've got,you've clocked a lot of miles, A
lot of miles.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
But I will say personally no, I do not have an
addiction, but I empathize andsympathize because of what my
father went through and whatI've seen some other family
members and friends go through,but I am not addicted.
But my addiction is running.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
But are you a hard stop Like, will you have a drink
?
Speaker 2 (32:18):
You have a bourbon, I am also known and so you know
I've had this conversation manya times.
Just to help people betterunderstand.
There is a line between thosewho can consume with great
responsibility and then thereare those that the minute they
have the drink, their body andtheir mind and spirit is totally
into that alcohol or whateverit happens to be.
(32:39):
So, yes, I am known for havinga good bourbon.
On occasion it's one of mygo-tos if I do go out and have a
beverage.
But I also recognize that I amvery much sensitive to the work
that we do and ensuring thatpeople understand that it's okay
to do things with greatmoderation and responsibility,
(33:00):
but also being sensitive in somerespects to the plight that
others are going through.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
So running is like your.
Oh my gosh, yes, if youcouldn't run, you'd have some
problems.
You'd be like, you'd have tolike figure out, like mall walk
or something.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Let's just say I ended up with COVID twice.
I still ran.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
I had a couple of things where it was just like
just the stressful moments.
I still run.
It is literally a great releasefor me.
But it's also been like thiswhen I say it's an addiction, I
get the runners high, as mostpeople would say.
So when I complete a marathon,there are moments and I laugh
about this with people.
I say, when I'm running amarathon, depending on how I'm
(33:43):
feeling for it.
There's moments I'm like, ohman, this is going to be great.
And then I can get to mile 18and be like this totally sucks.
And then when I get to 26.2,I'm like, sign me up for the
next, right.
So I mean it's truly anaccomplishment.
It feels good.
It's the one thing that I knowthat I can do that benefits me
and myself and helps me feelgood, stay in good shape, all
(34:04):
those wonderful things.
But I also have come to learncan be a bit of inspiration for
others, because I do know thatthere are other people who watch
me, other people who have takenup running or at least have
gone out and started walking orhave taken a different look at
their health, because they saidhe runs every day.
Do you run every day, Everysingle day, Seven days a week.
(34:25):
Seven days a week what times?
So it varies.
Most times I will run in themorning, Sometimes I will run in
the evening.
It just depends on what my daywill look like, and I will
usually run about a 5K a day, itjust depends, and much longer
on the weekends.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
How much longer on the weekends?
Speaker 2 (34:41):
On the weekends I can get up to 20 plus miles a day.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
Okay, so I'm going to challenge you All, right, okay.
So where's the strengthtraining?
Speaker 2 (34:50):
The strength training .
So core is not my strongest yet.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
So you got to work on that.
You needed some weights For allthe runners.
I love this running for you.
I love the cardiovascular, Ilove it.
But you've got to get somestrength training in.
You've got to start throwing upsome weight.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
That's true For a period of time I was.
This is my excuse and excuseswe know are Like assholes
everyone's got one Bingo.
Being busy, I've got to startintegrating more time in.
So I'm actually a part of agroup with one of my
fraternities and everybodyencourages each other and talk
about what you got to do interms of strength training, core
(35:27):
work except exercise and soforth.
So I've taken some of thatadvice.
I just got to apply it a little.
I'm gonna.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
I'm gonna push that on you.
I'm telling you, especially aswe age, we age.
I mean, you're still young,you're still young.
Thank you for that too, butlisten, I mean the strength
training and it's great for yourbrain.
Yes, it is Obviously, just likethe whole, the balance, the
agility, muscle mass, bonedensity you got to.
You know, throw that in there.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
That's true, that is true.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
You didn't know I was going to try to school you on
your you're like, listen to me,I'm running all the time.
I'm great, I'm like ah, you gotto mix that shit up.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
I am totally open to good advice and reminders
because, you're absolutely right, I mean good, solid runners.
They have strength training intheir program.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Now?
Do you get any injuriesanywhere?
How are your knees, how areyour ankles?
Speaker 2 (36:22):
Very early on.
Everything hurt it when I firststarted running, because the
body is adjusting, and then fora period in time I was okay, and
then on occasion, somethingwould start to feel a little
wonky and, to your point, alittle bit earlier.
Most of the times where my bodywould say, hey, you're not
doing what you're supposed to do, it's usually because I didn't
do my stretching before or mystretching afterwards.
It's like I just went out, Iran and then jumped right into
whatever it is I was going to dofor the day, and so those
(36:43):
things can eventually catch upto you, and that has happened to
me on a couple of times.
The thing with me is I'm aconsistent runner, so there's
periods and times where I've runlike 14, 15, 16 marathons a
year.
So training-wise I'm always inshape and in mode for it, and so
I try to maintain that.
(37:03):
So it has reduced the level ofinjury because I've always been
in active mode.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
Are you single?
Speaker 2 (37:11):
I am engaged.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
Oh, okay, you're betrothed.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
I am engaged and so, yeah, I was married for 24 years
.
My ex, she is an incrediblylovely person.
She has gifted intellectually,she's done a lot, we have three
wonderful kids together, anamazing, amazing human being.
But like anything else, lifejourney, sometimes it just
diverges, and so for us therewas a divergence and so since
(37:37):
then I have met an incrediblewoman.
She is also I will call herco-CEO, so she runs another
nonprofit here in Central Ohio.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
Okay, does she need to remain nameless?
Speaker 2 (37:49):
No, she doesn't, Rachel Lustig.
I think most people know Allright All right, she is the CEO
over at Lutheran Social Services.
So, yes, she is the CEO over atLutheran Social Services, and I
decided, we decided, I guess,or God decided, so I am back in
the child business again.
So we have a three and a half,soon to be four month old.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
Okay, so little Ava.
I love that for you Childnumber four?
Speaker 2 (38:14):
When are you getting married?
So, working through all of that, okay.
Well, yeah, you have a numberfour.
When are you getting married?
Speaker 1 (38:19):
So working through all of that TBD you have a young
one, so that kind of puts allthe wedded bliss to the side for
a little bit.
Good for you, that's incredible.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
It's a blessing to be a blessing, it's all the
wonderful things.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
You know, I have a 19-month-old.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
Do you?
Speaker 1 (38:36):
And a six-and-a-half-year-old.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
Awesome Girls boys, A boy and a girl.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
Oh, okay, I'm in the thick.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
You're in there.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
Okay, think about this before we end the Mary
Haven conversation.
Any other points that?
So the only other thing that Iwould share relative to Mary
Haven?
Speaker 2 (38:58):
just so that people understand is that we are Ohio's
oldest, largest and mostcomprehensive behavioral health
care provider period.
And I say that We've beenrecognized by Newsweek on a
national stage because we dosubstance use disorder, mental
health and we work with thehomeless population.
(39:19):
So we have mid and the entireMidwest.
We have the only diversionprogram where, instead of police
officers taking individualsdown to the county jails or down
to the city jail, they bringthem over to us and we take care
of them to get them detoxed offof alcohol.
So can you imagine that?
Speaker 1 (39:40):
Yeah, I mean what's going on with the homeless
population too?
Speaker 2 (39:44):
This is unprecedented times.
What we're looking at and whatwe're seeing with sheltering
needs are just compounding andthe pressure that exists out
there for domestic violenceshelters and the pressure that
exists out there for domesticviolence.
Shelters for just generalfamily shelters for women who
(40:05):
are single with kids, sheltersfor men who are in need of
shelters.
Youth we have some of the bestyouth sheltering systems, I
would say, in the country, butwe are all squeezed right now.
We are under tremendous amountof pressure with resources and
needs.
The community will see somehomeless camps, they will see
some individuals, but whatyou've got to understand is
(40:27):
they're also in places that youdon't see, and it's not just
under bridges and in camps.
Some of these folk are couchsurfing and you may go.
Well, that's not homeless.
Yeah, actually it is, becausethey're living in environments
and situations that are verytenuous at best or they are
sleeping in some of the mostdeplorable conditions, and what
we're trying to do is give thema sense of a place where they
(40:48):
can find some hope and findoutlets and start to get their
lives on track.
There are people living out oftheir cars.
They're what we call theworking homeless lives on track.
There are people living out oftheir cars.
They're what we call theworking homeless.
They can't afford where theyused to live because the
landlord took their rent from$600 a month to $1,800 a month
and they're like I can't affordthat.
(41:09):
One of our city council memberstalked about her very own
experience of having to do that.
So this is real and it's notjust an urban issue.
Mary Haven serves 78 of Ohio's88 counties.
We see homelessness in ruralAmerica People who sleep out in
(41:30):
the woods, people who sleep inbroken down cars, people who
find places just to lay theirhead for the night because that
community may not have an activesheltering program.
Do you know there are stilleight counties in Ohio that do
not offer sheltering?
Speaker 1 (41:50):
No, and why?
Just because no one's got timeto do it, or resources.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
Unfortunately it's.
Some people, some places, somecommunities don't think it's an
issue and in some areas they mayperceive that to be right
because the numbers may notsuggest it.
The numbers don't suggest itbecause those people have found
places to go, which is usuallyin the woods, and they're not
(42:20):
being counted or they're notreporting and so therefore you
don't see it.
But yeah, it's there, it's veryactive and we work with the
homeless.
We actually partner up with thecommunity shelter board, adam H
, franklin County, adam H Boardsthroughout the entire state and
for our diversion program,which we've had other cities
(42:42):
come in to try to figure out howto replicate.
For our diversion program we'vehad about a 45% placement
success rate.
That is phenomenal.
That means for those homelessindividuals who come to our
engagement center and they'reintoxicated and they're in need
of help, we've been able to helpthat percentage of them go out
(43:03):
to find rapid rehousing orpermanent to supportive housing,
getting them off the street.
Now the days and the time lengthhas increased.
If we had had this conversationabout six years ago I would say
we were able to do that inunder 27 days.
Today it's taken on average 120plus days to find housing.
(43:27):
So Mary Haven is a gift, it isa jewel, it is a landmark, it is
a staple in this community.
The folk that work at MaryHaven care.
They show up every day withtheir experience and their
passion to help other people.
We serve more than justsubstance use and mental health.
(43:47):
We have the homelessness.
We work with youth.
We have kids in our programbattling substance use and
mental health under the age offive and no, not all of them
were born that way.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
How does that happen?
Speaker 2 (44:08):
I'd hate to say it, but let's just face it.
Not everybody's going to be thebest in their situations and
they end up exposing their kidsto things that they shouldn't.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
Like what percentage?
Like how often do you see that?
Speaker 2 (44:26):
More than I care to say.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
You guys are doing the Lord's work.
Mary Haven truly is.
I mean, it's unbelievable and Ithink everyone just needs to.
You know, know it and see itand help and contribute.
I don't know.
I sit here and I think tomyself.
You know what I'm thinking.
Of course I'm thinking about me.
It's all coming back to me.
Why am I not doing more?
(44:50):
How can I help?
I need to go to the openshelter.
My friend Molly is always doingthe lunches.
I'm like we can all do so muchmore.
That's one of the great partsof sitting with someone like you
.
It's like such a reminder thatwe are also capable and able to
(45:10):
serve and help.
And why are we not?
Speaker 2 (45:13):
Carrie, I'm so grateful that you brought that
up, because the reality is ispeople tend to think well,
you're a fee for serviceorganization, you're billing
Medicaid, you're billinginsurance, they'll be able to
reimburse you, and the realityis is we get pennies on the
dollars in terms of total coststructure that comes back.
In fact, it has been a struggleto be able to keep up because
we are a safety net organization, which means we don't turn
(45:34):
anyone away, regardless of theirability to pay.
So we end up having to eat thatdebt and have to go out and
find ways to fundraise to offsetthat debt so that we can
continue this journey andprovide these services, because
it's not going away.
As much as I'd love to say,we'd love to close the doors of
Mary Haven because there's nolonger a need.
(45:56):
There's always going to be aneed.
There are stressors in thisworld that put people into a
mental health or mental illnessstatus.
Put people into a mental healthor mental illness status.
There are always going to bepeople who are going to go out,
have themselves a good time andnot realize some idiot did
something to their food or theirbeverage and now they're
(46:17):
wrestling with that.
These things are realities, andso we need help at Mary Haven.
We need resources, we needpeople to come and volunteer.
We've had groups from manyorganizations nationwide
insurance, you name it that havecome in and volunteered at our
program where we house our womenand families.
They go in, they read to thekids.
(46:37):
We've had elected officialscome in, talk with them, like
literally sit down and helpadvocate for their needs.
So we need folk to just give adamn, I'll come in.
I welcome you.
Speaker 1 (46:49):
I'll do.
I will you tell me what I needto do and I will come in.
Speaker 2 (46:53):
We welcome you.
Come and talk to them.
Speaker 1 (46:55):
Yeah, I would love to come and talk to them and I
think we need to put that outtoo about, like, how can people
help, because I know that it'snot for a lack of people caring.
I know that it's not for a lackof people caring.
I know there's a lot of us inthis community alone that I've
had the honor to be a part of.
People care a lot.
I think it's just putting thethings in front of them Like
(47:16):
here's what you can do.
This is how you can help.
Speaker 2 (47:18):
Absolutely.
We've had some remarkablepeople come through, see the
facility, talk about the workthat we do and because this
person that shared it verypublicly, I'll share it as well.
We've had a billionaire in ourstate actually come through the
facility and he talked about hisown travels with addiction and
you know, he literally said if Ihad known more about Mary Haven
(47:42):
I would have just come here,because when I look at and I see
what you all have done and theservices that you're providing,
there are places that we've paidto go talking about himself
where it was $40,000, $70,000 amonth.
Yes, you got the private chef,you got the private doctor and
all those things, but that wasit.
(48:05):
But did they really dig in andhelp, really reset you as a
person?
You all care and you set up thesystem to show that you care.
And he said I would have paidgladly to come here and so he's
working with us to help us as westart thinking about more
outreach with this work.
But that doesn't mean peopleneed to stop.
(48:27):
He's just simply saying how canhe help by being what you just
said?
How can he come in and be anadvocate?
How can he come in and justtalk with people, be a sponsor
for those that have already beendown that journey.
Speaker 1 (48:43):
Put me on the roster.
Speaker 2 (48:44):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (48:45):
I'm serious and I already have an idea what I can
do.
Awesome, okay, anything elsebefore we wrap up this?
I mean I could sit with you forat least a day.
Speaker 2 (48:57):
You know, we started this by talking about being a
servant leader and being a CEOand all these wonderful things,
and I come back to the humblesort of position around this.
I wouldn't be sitting here.
Be it for, but not for, thosefive right.
What I also share is, in thisjourney, much like anything else
(49:19):
, when you're trying to do good,there's sacrifice.
We all have to sacrifice,whether it's your time, whether
it's the parties, whatever it is, you're going to end up
sacrificing something in orderto be able to better your
position.
My assumption is, kerry, atsome point in your journey to
get to where you are doing thisincredible work, you've had to
(49:41):
sacrifice, something we all do.
I went and sacrificed to goback to get my MBA and I did
that in part because of anothergentleman I will call number six
.
There was actually seven, butI'll call him number six right
now and that's Eskel Curl.
So Eskel Curl, for those outthere in the world at State Farm
, knew this man as just beingjust such a genuine leader, like
(50:03):
he cared.
I worked at State Farm for 10years and the culture and the
motto at the time was all aboutthe people.
And how do you empower thepeople and get them going,
because if you can enrich theirlives, they will enrich the
policyholders' lives and theagents' lives and so forth.
And so when I was there, I wasa bit courageous and bold at
(50:26):
various times and in about1999-ish I went to Eskel.
I saw him walking down the hallone day and I mean, he's a
stately figure, always dressedin a suit, I mean like one of
those people you go, man, when Igrow up I just want to be like
him, right.
And so, and I stopped him inthe hallway and I took a very
(50:46):
bold moment and I said Eskel,one of these days I want to be
where you are.
I want to be in the seat thatyou sit in.
Now, hearing that from someonethat's on we'll call it the
lower end scale of the spectrumin the organization, he could
have taken that any direction.
(51:06):
But Esco looked at me and hesaid Oyama, which I was
surprised.
He even knew my name, becausehe didn't have it A hundred
percent.
He knew my name.
He said Oyama, if you want tobe in the seat that I sit in,
you have to learn the languagethat we speak in the boardroom.
And that was it.
(51:29):
And I took that and I said youhave got to be kidding me.
So basically I slept on it fora little while and what he said
was you've got to learn to speakthe language of business,
because in the boardroom they'renot talking about the claim and
the execution of Ohio RevisedCoals on the front lines.
They're talking strategy andvision and economics and
(51:51):
implications of what happens inthe economy and all these things
and how that impacts thebusiness and the competitive
landscape.
And so it was in that momentthat I decided I needed to go
back to school.
And I kept thinking to myselfhow in the hell am I going to
make time for that?
I'm working full time.
At the time, my wife was inschool full time, you know,
(52:15):
going off studying to be adentist, I mean like all of
these dynamics.
And I was like there's just noway.
And then I was like well, youknow what my mom did it?
She found time raising two kids.
Surely I can create the time,but there's a sacrifice.
I've got to give up some stuff,and I did.
And so I went back, got my MBAat Franklin University, which I
(52:37):
highly highly encourage peopleto explore.
About 18, 20 plus-ish months Igraduated and walked across that
stage with my MBA, paid for itmyself, and I will never forget
because after I got it I went toEskel's office after I got an
appointment and I went and Ithanked him and I said I'm
(53:00):
grateful for the fact that youtold me that, because now I've
had the unique experiencethrough my program at Franklin.
I put together business plans.
In fact I put together anexpansion business plan for the
solder wood making company to goto take their product to
Australia, because at the timethey were not in Australia.
The company actually wanted mybusiness plan.
That's how incrediblythoughtful it was.
(53:23):
That's how incrediblythoughtful it was and my company
at that point, state Farm, tooknote of that and my career
started taking off.
So it's moments like that thatmake a difference.
It's moments like that wherepeople can share a word with you
, a reflective, and you neverknow what fire it ignites or
(53:47):
where it leads you in life.
But I've taken that to heart tosay, if I ever found myself in
those unique moments, to use itwisely.
Speaker 1 (53:58):
And I say the lesson there, too, is seizing an
opportunity.
Oh my God, you know how manypeople would have had the balls
to stop the guy in the firstplace.
I mean, that's my message outthere.
Like, listen, like, seize youropportunity, man, when, when you
have the chance to stand out ormake a difference or, you know,
put yourself out there,differentiate yourself, take it.
Speaker 2 (54:17):
That's what you did.
I seized the moment.
It put me on radar.
Speaker 1 (54:22):
Put you on the map.
Speaker 2 (54:22):
I did what I needed to do and I equipped myself and
I will tell you I have notlooked back since.
It has been a wonderful,wonderful journey.
Speaker 1 (54:30):
Grateful, I love that , absolutely grateful.
Well, I'm grateful that youcame in to share this with me.
I am just ready.
I'm ready to go.
I don't know what.
I'm going to go seeing me atMary Haven, trust me.
Absolutely, I'm telling you,it's going to happen.
And if you're still out therefollowing your girl, follow me
on YouTube, Spotify, Apple orwherever you get your podcasts.
(54:52):
And until next time, Google,Mary Haven.
Go to the tab where it saysVolunteer Opportunities.
We'll put some stuff out theretoo, and let's help these folks
and keep moving baby.
Thank you, Thank you and golisten to Tupac.
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