Jim Moginie, Midnight Oil / Solo Artist

Jim Moginie is a renowned Australian musician best known as a founding member, keyboardist, and songwriter for the iconic rock band Midnight Oil, where he served as a driving creative force for over 50 years. Beyond his keyboard work with the Oils, Jim has collaborated with numerous prominent artists including Silverchair, Sarah Blasko, Neil Finn,...

The post Jim Moginie, Midnight Oil / Solo Artist appeared first on The Keyboard Chronicles.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
And he got it in one take with so much groove and he really glued the rhythm sectiontogether with his playing and then I realized, God, I'm such a dog piano player, I'm just
like this.
Hello and welcome to the keyboard Chronicles of podcasts for keyboard players.

(00:21):
I'm your host David Holloway and I'm thrilled as always to be here with you.
I'm excited as hell to introduce Mr.
Jim Magini tonight.
Whether you're in the US, UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, anywhere else, SouthAmerica, all our wonderful friends in Europe, you are very likely to have heard.

(00:41):
much of the music of Midnight Oil.
Now, as you'll hear, Jim was the keyboard player and guitarist with that iconic band.
And for us Australians in particular, Midnight Oil are a seminal band.
Never has the word seminal been more appropriate than to Midnight Oil.
But we actually got Jim on much more broadly than just his time with Midnight Oil.

(01:03):
Jim has an amazing new album out, Everything's Gonna Be Fine.
And we talk about that in some depth as well.
I can't begin to recommend enough.
Jim's whole back catalog as a solo artist, the variety of work in there is incrediblecredible.

(01:24):
whether it's the new album coming out through to his guitar instrument, mentalmurmurations, even his work with an amazing outfit called Jim Mugeny and the family dog,
their album bark overtures.
There's just so much to love and enjoy there.
So I do recommend that.
And the other recommendation I'll make, and I promise I'm not getting a commission fromJim on this, is Jim has written a brilliant memoir called The Silver River.

(01:54):
I've had the pleasure of reading it.
If you want an insight into an artist's thinking around a whole range of issues,creativity, family upbringing, the whole lot, it's one of those musical memoirs that is
well on
truly worth the price of admission.
Cannot recommend it highly enough.
If you're just a midnight oil fan wanting a, know, blow-by-blow description of their lifeas a band, this is not the one.

(02:20):
I mean, there's certainly lots of really cool stuff covered there, but this is much, muchdeeper than that and highly recommended.
So anyway, I'll shut up for a minute and we'll jump into the interview with Jim and I'llsee you at the end of the show.

(02:42):
Jim, it's an absolute honor and privilege to you on the show, sir.
How are you?
Good, Dave.
Yeah, really, really well, thank you.
Yeah.
Good.
It's, I was just saying before we start recording, it's nice to have someone in the, boththe same time zone and within sort of a hundred kilometers of each other.
So yeah, really appreciate you taking the time this early evening.
No problem.
I thought we'd jump in firstly, talking about, what's coming up for you.

(03:04):
And that's, on December the 60 releasing your new album, everything's going to be fine.
I've,
I'm obviously keen to hear lots about this and I've had the privilege of having a bit of alisten over the last couple of days and I've already waxed lyrical about it in the
introduction, but just tell us about the impetus for this album and what got you over theline with this over the last sort of 12 months.

(03:28):
Well, I'm one of these artists that sort of jump around a bit.
I the last record I made was an instrumental guitar record improvised made during the
pandemic and came into a studio with an engineer and improvised.
And that was all to do with the pandemic.
And I was one of these people who played music online during the pandemic to get myselfsaying, probably drive everyone else mad.

(03:52):
But anyway, I did that.
I well, I may as just put down the idea.
And then I went on tour with the oils for a couple of years and came back at the end ofthat feeling pretty shocked, actually.
But I heard that music and I thought, actually, it's really good.
should put that out as a record because I
It was a very unguarded kind of performance in it, kind of gentle and a bit wayward andmeandering, but still with some sort of structure.

(04:17):
It wasn't noodling as a noodling can be.
was more seem to have something underneath it.
And so I thought as a reaction against that, I'd made it make a piano record, which iswhat I've done with everything's going to be fine.
And that's some music based around the piano.
And that was constructed here in my studio in Brookvale.
And I

(04:38):
good friends with a guy called Hamish Shewitt, the drummer, and that everybody probablyknows, but he's a good mate and he'd come in and we'd jam, you know.
And one day he came in and said, well, I've actually got a couple of songs, you know,which are fancy, know, if I played you a couple of ditties.
And I did, he played great stuff along.
And I was the engineer.

(04:59):
There wasn't anyone else around to engineer it, so I did it.
And, you know, I'm kind of my engineering.
I really enjoy it.
Anyway, we...
do a couple of songs and then he'd come back a week later and we'd jam a bit and I'd go,well, I've got a couple more, come on.
And so over the period of a few days, we did 10 tracks, these songs that I'd written onthe piano as well at home.

(05:20):
I've got a little upright Japanese piano called an Apollo, which has got this beautifulfelt thing that you can put onto the hammers between the strings and the hammers and
beautiful sound, like this beautiful, soft graphite writing.
So I'd written on that and
I played the Fender Rhodes and he'd be in the other room listening and I'd sing mutt orsomething and he'd play.

(05:45):
I'd go, well, let's do a few takes.
That's good.
Maybe a bit faster, a bit slower.
And then from then I thought, well, I'm going to be making an Elton John kind of recordbecause it's got the bass around the piano and vocals.
I thought, well, what would Elton John do?
well, OK, probably add a bass player.
So got Adam Ventura.
They'd been playing with the oils to play the bass.
He did a great job.
He's an amazing bass player, Adam.

(06:07):
Incredible.
And had Truett with us as well, but he's just a local boy from Sydney.
got him in and I thought, well, what else?
What do I need?
So I got in touch with Leah Flanagan, who'd sung with you also.
said, what about some back vocals?
She said, yeah, great.
She lived in Darwin and we did the file sharing thing.

(06:28):
She went into a studio there in Darwin.
I think it was raining, it was on the tin roof because it's Darwin.
and they could hear all the frogs croaking outside and that's sort of a little bit ofthat's on there, a bit of atmosphere.
So that sounded great and I thought, well, there's a couple of songs I wouldn't mind somestrings.
So I was in Ireland, we spend a bit of time in Ireland these days and I thought, I couldget someone in Sydney to do it, I think want something different.

(06:55):
I don't know what I want, but I don't know, I don't kind of want that.
And so I got in touch with a guy called Colm.
who plays the fiddle with the band called The Frames, a really great Irish band called TheFrames, and you're aware of them.
Wonderful band, a very emotional band, and he's a beautiful player.
So he did kind of a violin section on three of the tracks.

(07:19):
And then it started to sound pretty big, and I thought, well, it's probably done.
But there was two songs where there was a guy in the studio called Sean Whelan, a friendof mine, he's a jazz piano player from
who's in New York, think maybe some of your people listening to this will know of him.
He's absolute gun, like he's a jazz giant.

(07:42):
And he came in, he was recording here and I said, would you please see, you know, playingon a few ditties.
And he went, sure, I'd be honored.
And I went, okay.
So I put them up and one of the songs has a lot of chord changes in it, like the JimmyWebb song.
He said, just, just, just write them out and we'll sit here and play the chord.
Yeah, E flat with a, you know, D flat on the top or F sharp with an E flat or B with a Cor whatever it was.

(08:10):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Wrote it down and went, there's no way he can do this at all.
He sat sideways on the piano.
You can hear him grunting when he plays, sort of a bit like Keith Jarrett.
And he got it in one take with so much groove and he really glued the rhythm sectiontogether with his playing and then I realized, God, I'm...

(08:31):
such a dog piano playing, I'm just like this.
And this guy's just got this touch in the moves and god, you know, like it's really tookit somewhere else, you know?
And so he was the last element to icing in the cake.
That's how we came together.
And please do take this as a compliment.
I hadn't picked there was a second piano player because I did pick up and I'm guessing Iwas going to go through four tracks.

(08:56):
But is that let light and, let light and love that's got the beautiful jazzy piano piecesin it.
may have that wrong, but there's a, there's a couple of great one.
And so I hadn't picked it with someone else.
Well, there's, I mean, my idol with, piano playing is, is, cause I've got a few, well,Chris Abrams is my absolute.
Like I adore him and he's as a bloke and as a player and I could never play like that.

(09:21):
But I, my real role models are people like John Lennon and Neil Young, really.
people who can get a song across, they're not necessarily technically that great.
I mean, I can play, but I can't play fast.
I can play in the groove, can play in the pocket, but I'm more interested in sort ofgetting the song across.
But someone like Sean, of course, is so technically gifted and rhythmically gifted that itwas really quite an eye opener, So, and recently I've just curated a festival in Sydney

(09:54):
called the...
Piano Plus and Mob, who used to be called the Sydney Piano Competition, think.
Anyway, we decided to put some gigs on in some really weird venues.
I did one of them.
One was the Antique Memorial, which was very moving and possibly one of the best gigs I'veever done solo because it was...

(10:16):
I chose the songs to fit the space.
There the oil songs like Armistice Day, the song of Rob Hirst called Last of the Diggers,the band played Washington, Matilda.
A few kind of war related songs and my family had been to war, my uncles had been to warin World War II.
So I had a history of that, which most Australian people my age would.

(10:37):
And as part of the concert, got Sophie Hutchings to play, which was brilliant.
And Chris Abrams to do Elizabeth Bay House.
And then David Bridey played at the State Library.
So we've got had a really good lineup of piano players.
They're all different kinds of piano players.
about the diversity of what the piano can bring to songs or to improvise music or allthose others had different degrees of all that.

(11:04):
So I've always loved the piano.
That's always been my thing since I was a kid.
So I got my first piano when I was 17, a little upright.
We bought from the training costs for a hundred bucks.
Had to lug it upstairs ourselves and put it there.
And I was just fascinated with it for a writing tool really right from the work going out.
Plangorous and beautiful.

(11:24):
they can be, even though I was sort of really a guitar player.
I sort of realized the potential of the piano and trying to sort of get these songs out ofthis beautiful symphonic sounding piece of wood and string.
Yeah, absolutely.
And just as a quick aside before we keep talking about the album, was that a recent gigyou did with Piano Place?

(11:45):
Was that was your first ever solo one, just you and a piano that you've done or you'vedone a little bit of that before?
I've done a little bit before.
Usually I'll have a guitar somewhere
for the second half of the gig or the first half of the gig I did in my nominationsimprovised thing.
So it's more, I think it's all about music for me.
I'm not so into the technical side of it, I suppose.

(12:09):
I like to explore things and I get bored easily.
So I like to go into different genres.
So it was, yeah, but that was the first time I really felt like I kind of got it togetherfor that.
I did a lot of preparation and
And it was a real high on a lot of sleep applied to place like the hands of memorial,separate sacred places in the sense.

(12:33):
Absolutely.
And so just on the album, mean, again, I've talked about in the introduction, but this isit's a powerful arm with lots of depth and breadth and, obviously has some, some themes to
it.
So I just thought I'd pick out four songs, the opening track before I knew my blood andyou've already mentioned the strings.
So it felt like there was a whole string.

(12:55):
a section of an orchestra.
Just amazing.
Just tell us about why that's the opener and obviously the powerful message that's puttingit across.
Well, it's an odd choice for a first song.
mean, I always find with albums, the best way to lead off an album isn't with the singer.
It's a song that's kind of a bit more hard to understand, but it's great in terms of itssort of breadth and sort of scope.

(13:19):
That one, Sean played the piano on that one.
That was the one I was talking about, about the Jimmy Webb thing.
and I did have in mind to do a full orchestra.
Like my thing was like a Russian army orchestra, like a Europe, Eastern European, possiblyRussian sounding orchestra.
We even talked about using an orchestra from Czechoslovakia.

(13:40):
Of course the budget, but I had the string.
I had a bit of an idea for a string arrangement and, I just did it with a Melitron, adigital Melitron and, a BBC orchestra samples and a few.
things that were I've got and that are the Spitfire stuff, the software is reallyfantastic for the strings.

(14:04):
I don't know whether you, you look like you know those.
Yeah, definitely.
The Spitfire stuff is wonderful.
It's pretty wild.
And you had me feel Jim, I would have sworn that was a live arrangement.
was the whole point.
I thought, you know, I want to fool people and it is synthesized, but it comes in and it'slike a very deep and simple lines and

(14:24):
You know, sort of raspy cellos and the stuff's pretty good now.
Like this, certainly better than the old string synthesizers of the seventies.
But it's, it's yeah, that it, that was a bit of a challenge to get that to sound the wayit sounded, but I, but I managed to.
And the song is about my adoption story and really about, I thought I'd put that one upfront almost to get it out of the way.

(14:49):
So when we get to the other stuff, but I thought, well, it's personal.
Sean got it when he played it, he understood what I was trying to do.
it's song has a lot of changes in it.
starts in C sharp minor, it goes to E minor in the chorus and then middle eight in D andthen it modulates to a B and then it ends up in F minor.

(15:13):
the total center is always shifting, but that's sort of what I love about the piano.
can write like that on the piano.
Guitar always, you tend to go with the drone or the open string.
the piano has got that potential to take you anywhere you want.
So that was, that was the reason we're choosing.
It was sometimes the most interesting track on the record should be the first track in my.

(15:35):
Absolutely.
And then, I mentioned depth and breadth.
other one I picked out was mammoth with, and, one of the things that stood out for me wasthat amazing piano solo.
So again, very distinct theme with that that links in with, with the title of the titletrack and so on, but just tell us a little bit about that one.
Well, the album's called Everything's Gonna Be Fine.
Of course, it isn't, Everyone goes, everything's gonna be all right.

(15:57):
You go, yeah, okay.
Well, you know, that's sort of like the Wiggles.
You know, we're gonna have fun now with an extinction event, you know, that's looming forall of us.
You know, I thought maybe you can write about these very serious subjects in all sorts ofways.
Obviously, we were, you know, we had a very serious side to the writing in that.

(16:20):
And it was very good to write to that.
you know, we all were very caught up in that idea of, you know, let's all be a communityand get together and talk about these issues and have a conversation with people about
them, not so much bring them over the head, but to talk about those things with people andbring them up.

(16:40):
People weren't aware of some subjects, whether it was land rights when that was happeningin the 80s or environment in the early 90s.
No one was really talking about that.
We were part of that.
I'm opening up that door anyway.
So I just thought there's lots of ways you can write.
You can write any humorous way about these things.
So I thought, well, what about writing a song for Mammoth, where the mammoth is actuallyin a glass case in a museum and he's actually talking to you.

(17:08):
Like I'm the mammoth, you know, I cross the floor, you know, in natural history museumsconcerning time and space.
This is my testimonial from my class case.
I thought, well, the mammoth is almost like the mascot for extinction.
It's sort of like the one you talk about that didn't make it, didn't make the cut.

(17:31):
you know, there's even people, someone told me the other day, someone's talking aboutbringing a mammoth back from using the DNA, like Jurassic Park.
I well, that's probably not such a good idea, it?
Where's the grace?
Where's the humility?
So anyway, the song is sort of a humorously told something, but it's basically anenvironmental message about, you know, see you later, you know, goodbye, you know, so

(17:57):
long, you know, you're here, you're gone.
You know, that's sort of the last thing you in the song.
So I think you can write about these things in all sorts of different ways.
In fact, the art and cover is a picture of a mammoth playing a piano, which is relevant towhat keyboards we're talking about.
But he's drunk.
in front of a petrochemical plant.

(18:18):
Looks like sort of a black charcoal looking, but with this childlike kind of wigglesriding over the top, everything's going to be fine.
I hope they will get the fact that it is ironical telling.
Yeah, good.
I hope so.
Yeah, I love the cover.
Yeah, it's amazing.
And was that you or Sean, the beautiful little very short, tight, tasty piano solo in themiddle of that?

(18:40):
I have to say it's Sean.
Yeah, Sean did it again.
It's like
I was sort of like, I was going, you you know, I was doing that and he was, go, you know,it's just, I just, my jaw was on the floor when you, and I thought that's just the perfect
thing for that song.

(19:01):
Yeah, no, lovely.
And again, very different.
I follow the truth and this one I love to bits because it's sort of a combination of someof those great
Beatles observational songs combined with Billy Joel's, we didn't start the fire to it.
Just tell us a little bit, just the rhyming in it, but also the topics you're covering.

(19:21):
just think that one's amazing.
Was that a hard one to write lyrically?
There's a lot of words in it.
It's basically concerned with everybody's talking about this or everybody's talking aboutthat.
Everyone's talking about the Well of My Kind, everyone's talking about the end of theline.
Everyone's talking about the New Green Deal.
Everybody's
trying to be a big wheel.

(19:42):
mean, it's actually quite easy once you get on a roll with song like that.
It's a sort of a list song.
You just start with something and then you just add something to the end of the line tomake it different every time.
And it came really quickly.
Like probably the best ones do, I'd had the chorus lying around for about 20 years and I'mone of these people that has songbooks and I'd always go back to them and go, should what?

(20:09):
finish that, but I don't know how to.
And then I was mucking around one day for a bit of a joke, like doing a nursery rhyme sortof thing from E to A and E to A and back.
I thought that would be a good verse if I could get some lyrics.
of course, another year go by and you kind of start to add words.
And there was a phase with the record where I sat down at home during the pandemic again,and sat on the piano for weeks on end, going through my books, trying to sort of complete

(20:38):
some of the ideas that were in there.
So that was one of them.
And I thought, let's work on that.
And again, with this beautiful little piano with the felt at home.
Came into the studio with Hamish, just few of the Fender Rhodes.
And I came and overdubbed the piano one day by myself.
Just put a ribbon mic over the hammers really.

(20:59):
I didn't want to mic it up too fancy.
Got a really beatley sound out of it.
And using kind of a fake Fairlight.
compressor and a ribbon mic over the hammers is always a really good way to record thepiano for me.
In a kind of a pop song, you don't really want a big sound, you just want a of planche andsonorous sound and it worked pretty well for that one.

(21:22):
So it's only piano based on drums and at one point this electric guitar comes in reallyloud in a sort of a bridge section and sort of disappears again.
That's sort of the shock treatment of that, it's quite effective as well.
It is indeed.
It's all about the post-truth world.
really, the song that's about, you know, everyone's talking, but no one's really doinganything.

(21:45):
There's a lot of hot air and there's a lot of kind of good intentions, perhaps politiciansnow are powerless to do anything because they're all on the throws of the industrial
military complex.
Whether they like it or not, the lobbyists and the whole system seems to be going more andmore of that way with government.
I'm not anti-government at all.

(22:06):
think I believe that democracy is really important and probably hope in the face ofdespair.
Really.
That's what democracy is.
Humans, but humans being the way we are.
And it deals with those sorts of subjects about, you know, what is the truth and whatabout, you know, we can talk about all these other things, but you know, let's get to the,

(22:28):
let's get to what we need to be doing.
So I see people.
Absolutely.
No, an amazing song.
Just on a total tangent, were you ever tempted throughout your life to play, I mean,you've played an active role in politics as far as through your lyrics and what you've
done.
you ever tempted to, you know, get into institutional politics or just a step too far?
You might be a terrible politician.

(22:51):
It's, you know, I just think, you wouldn't want to say that.
Well, we had some in the band who actually went into politics.
Yes, literally took the step.
You can talk a lot of shit when you're outside of politics, but when you're in it.
Yes.
It's a whole other thing.
And he found that, you know, he did.
It was extraordinary that he took the message to the step that no one would go that far togo and actually become a member of a party.

(23:17):
And he got into a lot of hot water about it in some ways, but he actually did a lot ofreally good things that no one really knows about.
Of course, people talk about that.
That's right.
So he he talked the talk and walked the walk and went through those those big doors intothat marble floor.
of where they're all yelling and screaming all the time and making decisions.
But he, yeah, I'm really proud of him for doing it.

(23:38):
Absolutely.
But I think anyone who goes into it has to have their eyes open.
he being the barrister, you he trained as a barrister.
So he had a lot of the skills with arguing and arguing this point.
And even though the caucus wouldn't listen to him very often, he would go with the will ofthe party.
that's sort of the tragedy of it in one way, but it's sort of the way

(24:01):
democracy works in a sense that it's never quite any one particular person's work.
You you can't really be a white knight in politics.
You think you might be, probably the people outside of politics.
And even doing music outside of politics can have you know, have an influence.
think I don't like to say where our band was like.

(24:24):
It might have been part of that conversation.
But I think other things like the Cathy Freeman run for in terms of
the land rights issue said a lot more than a whole bunch of words and people banging onthe table or, know, know, burning things or whatever.
You know, I just think that can that had a lot more to say than anything really.

(24:46):
And, you know, songs, music like Treaty by the Indy or, you know, my Blackfella Whitefellaby the Rumpke band.
The list goes on, know, Chris and I knew my own home.
That's right.
Like a boy, what he's doing now, especially to people like that are really important inbringing in national conversations in, in, in, the culture.

(25:12):
Absolutely.
And we'll definitely talk a little bit more.
I just want, I don't want to let you get away with just two more comments on your album.
The other two tracks that I wanted to quickly, quickly mentioned were let light and love.
So again, some beautiful roads from what you're saying.
In that just again, sort of how that one flowed.
Yeah, that's an interesting song that one of we've been trying to play it live.

(25:35):
I've been, I'm about to do some shots with Amy Stewart and the drum down the record.
Just the two of us.
That's a really hard one to get because it's got a very simple kind of chordal thing thatthe verse is harmonically different from the chorus, but then they go from one to the
other back again.
And the song.

(25:57):
And just the dynamics of it need to be right.
I think the I just wanted to do a kind of a Bill Fay kind of song.
I love Bill Fay.
I know where you're from.
He's a English musician who I adore and his albums are quite sorrowful, almost sadsounding, kind of beautiful, just beautiful records.
And I love him.

(26:18):
And it was a song inspired by him in a way, not ripped off him, but that kind of songwhere you're talking about light and love.
The sort of innocence of that is very powerful.
Even though we pay lip service of those things, it's let light and love open the door.

(26:38):
You know, I mean, in a way that's sort of the answer to everything in the sense that tounderstanding other people, need to look at them with love and talk to them with love,
even if you don't agree with them.
That's right.
I think I think it's if there's a theme in that it's it's about, you know,
about finding yourself in this world being a bit overcome and overwhelmed by it all andthen going back to that simple truth.

(27:05):
Absolutely.
But harmonically, yeah, sort of had Colin played some strings on a beautiful cello stuffhe did and he used five string violin.
So it's half viola, half violin.
He's got the low string, the low C I think it is.
So he can get down to those.

(27:26):
the oil levels as well.
So he did a beautiful swing arrangement on that.
just, when I first heard it, just got tears.
It was really beautiful.
He did such a beautiful job on that.
Amazing song.
And then the very last track, Waiting for the Light to Come, again, it builds beautifully.
It's got that real cinematic scope to it.

(27:47):
Beautiful way to finish.
was some electric piano, unless I'm mistaken, there's even a little bit of organ in it.
Just again, a little bit about how that one came together.
Waiting for the light to come.
Well, you know, I've written songs all my life.
You know, I guess I.
I think that one.
Was one of those ones again, it's a little bit like a list song where you can.

(28:12):
It is quite long, it's got a lot of verses in, probably too many, but.
I I I want to leave people that like to build attention.
I don't like to sort of.
Let's get on to the next one, because they might not like that.
I'll probably take it a little bit too far.
in terms of repetition, but I love the repetition.
I love the way they can build and create sort of a feeling of you just want the dam toburst, but it doesn't.

(28:36):
know, so that song really was with the Rhodes and the piano.
I think it's the original Rhodes and the drums that we did on the day.
And even some of the vocal, think I kept the rough, the guide vocal that I did, DriedHamish, but it
It's sort of a song where lyrically it's about how we're all struggling and how with thelight, you know, we're all trying to get to the light like the trees in the forest.

(29:07):
There's even a verse about that or someone who is in abusive relationship looks at thesunset and realizes that, well, this is just temporary.
I can get out of this.
can go.
I don't have to stay.
You know, I'm not who I am.
You know, I go back to being a kid again.
There's a verse about...

(29:28):
There's all sorts of that idea of light and the idea of we're reaching for this sort ofkind of aim to get us above where we are to sort of an upwardly moving thing, not upwardly
mobile, but upwardly, you know, spiritually trying to get higher.

(29:48):
And you can get to obviously in things like Indian music, classical music, you know, ittends to bring you up.
with the spirit of Irish music as well.
And so I wanted to do a song like that that had, again, repetitive chords, but went intosort of almost jazz section with a detuned mellotron with a porn sample down an octave and

(30:11):
a little bit like a Mitchell Froon sort of sound, a...
One of those crowded house records, which I love.
so, yeah.
You know, it came out really well.
one it's really powerful with an section on that one, Adam.
Yeah.
Incredibly powerful all around.
linking in with that, I mean, the title track has a stark message on its own, which linksin with the theme of the album.

(30:37):
wanted to ask you a broad question about that.
Do you see any optimistic signs for the next few years to turn things around climate wiseor even more broadly with the political divisions?
I mean, the time of recording were two weeks off the US elections without
You know, getting too partisan and so on.
you see any signs of optimism?
Easy question.
a crystal ball for that one.

(30:58):
mean, I, think human beings are sort of basically flawed.
think people will go on the most, you know, it's like the difference between quality andconvenience, you know, people will always go for the convenient, whether it's an MP3 or a
short.
You know, well, I don't have to go to the record store.

(31:19):
I'll just, I'll I'll just stream the record or I don't have to go to a gig.
I'll just lie on my couch and, tune.
I think we were always looking for the shortcuts, you know, and I think in, in, theclimate thing, I think there's a bit of that happening.
governments realize that to be electable.
People, people have just basically thinking about their mortgages, you know, and rightlyso.

(31:44):
You they have to think about their kids and they're educating the kids and.
the problem with that is that the big picture isn't being looked at, they're just lookingat their own little needs and their micro world, you know, and I think really governments
realize they're not that they won't be elected if they make the hard decisions.

(32:06):
And of course, governments always want to stay in power, which is natural because theywant to do the work they want to do.
So there's a bit of a.
lack of political will in this area.
You know, there's a lot of talk about how important this, but there's no action.
And this is the problem because it's a human problem.
And I think the only way things will have change is like, never talking to, you're goingto talk a years ago where a fellow was talking about electric cars.

(32:34):
And at that site, they were sort of well off the radar.
And he was saying, look, it's going to happen.
it's going to happen in about five years, you'll be really surprised it's going to happen.
Because the people will decide that they're And people will, if the grid is going to bepowered by alternative power, well, that's the problem.
But the more alternative energy comes into the mix, which it is, know, wind and solar andwhatever else they're going to throw at us, then...

(33:09):
By driving an electric car, will be helping.
You won't be giving carbon emissions out.
So really, people have tweaked onto that.
the fact that it is sort of cheaper to run an electric car in terms of fuel, lesspolluting.
And you just look at the roads and there's heaps of them now.

(33:29):
Who would thought?
So people made that decision.
The market made that decision.
It's when people all move together that it changes.
What we did in COVID, which is controversial because of all the vaccinations, but what wecould do is shut everything down if we wanted to.
We could do it because, you know, it was all about us.

(33:49):
You know, we were going to be killed or made extinct.
let's not let that happen.
We'll do whatever they say.
We'll stop.
And I remember driving over to Harbour Bridge one afternoon, Friday on five o'clock.
was always the only car.
I wasn't supposed to be there.
But, know, was, it, it'll change when people make the decision to change.

(34:12):
I don't think governments anymore can make the hard decisions.
I mean, we're all looking for those people to run it, to be in the government.
The hard calls, lately it's, it's about polling.
They're worried about being kicked out.
And I just want to say that it was on the consent.
Yeah, absolutely.
These would be unpopular decisions.

(34:35):
Yes.
No, great perspective.
No, thank you for that, Jim.
And now I do want to take a jump back and normally I would ask guests about the musicalupbringing, but I'm going to sort of cherry pick it a little bit because I will have
mentioned in the introduction, but I'll mention it here again.
Jim's written an amazing book called The Silver River that beautifully covers off, well, awhole range of your lifetime experiences, Jim, but particularly your earlier years.

(35:02):
you you grew up in a great family where
there was no one that played instruments.
You got into instruments and it's all beautifully documented, particularly for someonethat lives in the same broad area as you.
I just loved the local references.
It was amazing.
But I just wanted to ask you, I know in one part you talk about how you got deeply intorecording technology.

(35:23):
I think it was around when you were sort of 14, 14, 15, and even had an early experiencewith a...
a mini-mogue supplied by someone that was probably on the dicier side of society.
Just tell us a little bit about that first experience with that.
You've really read the book.
You know, you've already said it really.
Yeah, well, I loved the piano.

(35:44):
I'd been playing guitar and I had a sort of an organ at home, like a pan powered, I think,called an HD Palmer organ, which was a funny little thing that my parents bought.
It had chord buttons on the left hand side and a couple of octaves of keyboard.
And I used to use that with the band early on, but I couldn't get it loud enough.
It was pretty useless.

(36:05):
And then when I got the piano, I started writing songs and writing more music.
But before that, my father had a national tape recorder that he used that worked fordictation.
He used to dictate his letters to his secretary.
And they, you know, he wasn't using that anymore.
So he just brought it home and said, I'll grab that.
And it had like three, I think, three and a half inch spools on it.

(36:29):
and a little mic that was one of those little plastic ones that just sits up on a littlewire thing and national.
And I loved it because I could just hear it back.
I watched the tape going around and the smell of the oxide.
it's really got off that.
And I do little performances.
I do.
I think I did a version of Iron the War's.

(36:51):
He's playing on the guitar, which I don't know what it would have sounded like using thebathroom scales as a drum machine, like foot stomp.
There's a little corner of this room which had really good sound, it really tight.
And I used to go in there and do it in this, in a Cape Cod house, you know, where theyhave those little sort of roof things, those little bays that stick out, I was in one of
those.
So that was fun.

(37:11):
And then I progressed to a stereo machine where I could bounce from track to track.
So you'd record on one track and then re-record that to another track with a microphone asyou went to the second one.
Sound on sound thing.
And that was like, now I'm overdubbing, wow.
So I built up these tapes and then this, wouldn't have gotten into the synth in thesynthesizer unless this guy just offered to line me a minimo.

(37:37):
This is about 1972 or three.
These were just really expensive and rare.
It was even, I was so lucky.
And he said, do you want to borrow it?
And I said, yeah, sure.
So we dropped it off and for a week I just made mountains of these tapes overdubbing andoverdubbing until you couldn't even hear anything that these noisy sort of
Textual things just loving every minute of it going.

(38:00):
yeah, I get up on the spot, of course and then He came and got it again and offered mesome drugs I said No, I didn't know anything about that stuff still time You know that
wasn't part of the oils thing being a drug thing I can't say for some of the people aroundthe band but band itself is quite straight and sober and

(38:25):
going to be doing having a beer and a chat about football really.
So that's how I got started.
then I think around about, geez, it would have been about the Breathe album, that 95.
I built a little mobile studio then.
had a little studio under my house with a 24 track reel to reel by then and a mixingboard.

(38:50):
we made the album Breathe on that really in
Sydney in Dublin Harvest and went over to finish it and down in Lamar Studio in NewOrleans with my girlfriend Malcolm Doan.
I was just talking to him this morning.
Lovely, lovely boat.
And then I just got, had all this gear and I thought, well, what am going to do with it?

(39:10):
And I moved it into my mother's garage and had it in there for a few years.
And when she died, I thought, well, I better just build a studio.
And of course, by then,
I'd also started an equipment high business after the band split up.
I didn't really know what to do because the band was gone and I had to figure out what Iwas going to do.

(39:31):
So part of the things I did was to produce records or session player.
The equipment high business, in those days you could actually hire some Neve modules or anice microphone.
And I would actually lug...
to stuff up the stairs myself, you know, I enjoyed that, you know, just meeting themusicians and the engineers and they'd be there, they'd go, do you want to play a bit of

(39:54):
guitar?
I said, sure, what do you want?
So I found that there was a big community of other people out there too, apart from thegear thing.
But I just gradually got more and more equipment and I thought, well, just thought Mayswould just open a recording studio in Sydney, like a project recording studio, is 5th 6th,
know, Oceanic and football.
It's the end.
Was that your question?

(40:15):
can't remember.
No, no, no, that was great.
No, that was great.
It was just really, it was really.
No, no, not at all.
No, that it really did answer it as far as your development of your love for that sort ofof technology and through the years.
And I know you mentioned in your book about the sense of belonging being in bands.
And I mean, your first teenage band, Swampy Moose, then Farm and then obviously MidnightOil.

(40:37):
But I just want to briefly sidestep into, know you've got an acoustic, well like anupright piano.
Is it a Wiedich or Wiedich?
A Wiedich?
Yes, that piano is on playable now.
All the soundboards cracked beyond recognition.
It doesn't work anymore, but it's really good for playing Bach on.
It's got a really bright, quick sound to it and you can do all those sort of comfortablestuff.

(41:01):
Yeah, I've got a more...
got a really lovely Steinway piano in the studio now at Steinway D which is reallyextraordinary.
I mean that's around that 17th birthday.
I know in your book you talk about how transformative that was for you being able toexplore your own music and it sort of links into being in the bands and obviously in the

(41:24):
oils as well as a dual instrumentalist.
How over the amazing years with Midnight Oil, how did you, not manage is not the rightword, but how did you evolve that
your role as a dual instrumentalist where you are, you you're paying guitar as much as youare keyboards generally.
Just what was the evolution of that over the years?

(41:44):
Well, it started pretty much always the guitarist in the band.
when Martin joined, it was pretty obvious that he was a force to be reckoned with.
And as soon as that started happening, he'd play something, I'd play something else.
And they would instantly sort of play off each other like
know, bouncing, know, the left and right of the speakers perfect.

(42:07):
Like, about like XCC or you've got these two distinct players with lines that sort of, wedidn't really even listen to each other that much.
We just do such different things that would automatically complement each other.
So that became the band.
But I then had also freed me up to play more in those days organ.

(42:29):
I had a Yamaha YC-25D organ through an echo unit.
Trying to be Rick Wright from Pink Floyd, you know, was the aim.
He's a wonderful musician.
So under appreciated.
think he's such an extraordinary player.
Anyway, so we were in the studio, someone would go, Jesus, this be good when they piano,with a piano.

(42:49):
I go, I can have a go.
And so I became like the keyboard player as well by default, because there was no one elsethere to do it.
And I enjoyed it.
You know, I enjoyed building up sounds in the studio and overdubbing them.
creating sort sonic things for the song to sit on.
Realizing pretty early on that texturally, know, if you had like a, say if you use colortheory or something, if you have like a black velvet background with a diamond on it,

(43:18):
something bright and clear and shining, it will actually make the diamond even moreshining.
If it on a beige background or a wooden.
So that the idea of the back wall, sonic was what I...
became very interesting, especially in record production.
In some of the work that Daniel Lamoy did, we worked with one night in Canada, we did anight with him, that was pretty amazing.

(43:41):
His records seemed to be about the background information, of almost contradicting thefront information.
Something I think he got from Jimmy Hendrix records.
So that became a bit of a thing for me, and then I did this colour wheel thing aboutcolour and how that would relate to music with guitars, almost dealing with...
synesthesia in sense.

(44:03):
In that sense, was more about that.
And about using the electric guitar like you would in an orchestra, you know, the higherthe clear crystalline telecaster sounds to the deep bass to the tenor guitar or the
baritone and the which would be like cello.
You could you could use them in that sense as well.

(44:24):
So they're very interesting, the sonic thing.
So.
So with the keyboard side of it though, again, the more you play, better you get, isn'tit?
You know, when I last saw, I used to do a solo in the middle of short memory, which wasacross between, I said it was like Cecil Taylor and a four year old child having a

(44:44):
tantrum, you know, getting together.
I was completely nuts, you know, and the more nutty it got, the better it got, you know,the more it just was free and,
open and I could take it anywhere every night and I would.
I think about it a little bit before the show, what are we going to do tonight?
Because it's a big moment.
so I just got really interested in all of it.

(45:06):
It's all music to me.
I don't really distinguish songs, playing, recording.
It's all the same.
It's all when the red light goes on, I don't have any fear.
It's like, well, what's going to happen now?
Great.
Let's let's mess it up.
It get better.
No, absolutely.
All of the jazz musician would think that.
Yes.
Well, that's true too.

(45:27):
That probably prompts me on a question.
So given over the band's lifetime, the diversity of the sounds you were using in the bandwere using obviously evolved and grew.
what sort of rigor, I know you're more about the playing than the technology, but whatsort of rigor did you have to have keeping track of everything that you needed to be able
to replicate live within reason?
was it, did that become sort of a fairly dominant thing just from a logistics viewpoint?

(45:51):
Yeah, well, it was.
was.
I mean, everyone said our management said, get an order, get an order.
I go, I hate those bloody things.
which everybody uses, and I've used them as well, actually they're not as bad as Ithought.
But I insisted on using my 80s and 90s samples, my Akai S5000 samples, with all theoriginal samples on them, to replicate the songs, because those things don't sound like

(46:19):
keyboards.
They've got absolute balls, like bollocks, they can hit you, the mid-range of them isreally good.
A lot of the modern keyboards are just a little bit soft, you know.
And being in a rock band like The Oars, you need it to hit hard.
You don't want to have to EQ it or effects on it.
The raw sound coming out of these things is always extraordinary enough.

(46:42):
Everyone would complain about my keyboard rack.
I had a Roland piano, like an RD-8800, which I'd messed around with some of the soundsjust for the straight piano.
But I used that as a MIDI controller to control the sampler.
And I also had one of those modern Minimoog things.
which was pretty amazing.
I could have a bit of fun on that.

(47:04):
Yeah.
In my, well, Vangelis or Thurman sounding bits.
A few of the oil stuff, you know, really had some very special sounds like the end of acycle coil, the sprint had a studio, I a micro-mute back in the day.
And this did a really good simulation of that, of that, keyboard, modern keyboard, whichis programmable too.

(47:29):
doesn't go out of tune like the old ones used to.
Even things like Choir of the Spring I'd use it or other songs.
some of the songs, a few of the songs, believe it or not, we would use a kind of a drummachine thing.
Because they were recorded like that.
Songs like Redneck Wonderland.

(47:50):
Even though it's definitely a rock song, definitely has that sort of electronic vibe toit.
even songs like The Dead Heart, we just use a simple
kick drum beat which was pretty quick and then Rob could just relax and play on top ofthat.
Just a few times during the night, you know, would give it a little bit of variety.
So I'd always be, me old days I used to press that button and you know, I was the guy thathit start, you know, the whole show would rely on that.

(48:16):
So I, it's just sort of a pressure geek for me because I'm playing guitar and keyboards,I'm just fucking octopuses really.
But it was fun, you know, it was good, it was challenging and I'd always.
If I had a good night, I'd really feel good.
pull it up other nights when the technology let me down.
was just finding me in the corner, know, joining my sorrows.

(48:37):
But yeah, the technology was fun.
I think it's hard to keep pretty simple.
I wouldn't change that around too much because I just wouldn't change amps.
I just leave it, just keep working within that parameters of that.
But the keyboards were definitely more technological and more.
Yeah.

(48:58):
I had a number pad with the top of the mini numbering for the song.
had a big list of songs with mini numbers and I typed them in and something else Iwouldn't quite get there, know, sort of we wouldn't have a lot of gaps between songs
because the music was really fast and it was a physically demanding show and mentally itwas a challenge.
Yeah.
And that's probably a good segue.

(49:18):
We often ask our guests for a notable train wreck.
Is there a particular gig where things went so spectacularly wrong?
You can look back.
either at laugh now or you still wake up in a cold sweat dreaming about?
I actually think, you know, when you're at a gig, when things go wrong, it's actuallyalmost better.
You know, it's like then you find something else in the music to keep it to shine through.

(49:44):
If the keyboards wouldn't work, I'd just go and play guitar and fill the sound out likethat.
Yeah.
often do a version of something that when somebody had gone down on the guitar.
I do admit I have more fun playing guitar than I'm on a keyboard, Joe.
know, sorry keyboard guys.
Guitar is a lot of fun.
Keyboards is more, okay, here we go.
I get the scales right and all of that.

(50:07):
the, know, unless you get a keytar, you can't run around, can you, and jump up and down.
I really think it's, I think we played Saturday Night Live once in America and the actualrehearsal just before you do the actual live performance.
The roadie hadn't plugged my leads in, I couldn't have any sound on my guitar.
And another time all the samplers went down when Chris Abrams was playing with us in theGerman festival, he was just looking at me going, don't know, Lady Orlin.

(50:35):
And so we had a B3 on stage in those days.
So it was, you could always sort of get around it.
I always thought the band had such a full sound, even without me even playing, you know,that I could kind of stop and maybe it would sound better.
You know, I would sort of think, know, if in doubt, leave it out.

(50:55):
So I don't know.
I'd always tend to look at these adverse situations as being advantages or opportunitiesto open the sound.
Yeah, no, absolutely.
And I think you've sort of covered, we'd usually ask about your rig, but I thought you,and obviously it evolved over the years, over that many years, but it's, you've covered
sort of the core components of your keyboard rig.

(51:17):
Anyway, so I thought I might jump to one last oil's question that we had from a listener.
And obviously the, the famous gig in New York outside the Exxon HQ, it's just a broadquestion.
Do you reckon you'd be able to get away with something like that today?
Has society changed now where your ability to get the New York police to actually allowyou to set up on a, on a flat bed and actually do what you did would even be feasible

(51:42):
nowadays.
And also interested in your recollections of that gig as much as you can recall it.
Well, I had a keyboard that went down on that one.
That was another one where it went down.
We only played eight songs though, so it didn't really matter.
I think I ended up either dubbing a sample in a studio in New York a few days later, know,big confession.

(52:02):
But yeah, it might not happen now.
I think there's a lot more security issues in the world.
People worry about terrorism.
People worried about sort of people doing the wrong thing or
You know, if the sign says something you've got to do otherwise I'll throw you in jail.
Even demonstrations now are becoming illegal, which is sort of a sign of the times thatthis is sort of controlled, post-truth world that we're living in.

(52:25):
Yeah.
Perhaps not, but I think, you know, protests should be allowed to continue and people haveto voice their concerns.
Otherwise governments just get on with whatever they want to do and taking care ofbusiness sort of stuff.
think that was an important step for us to do that show.
It it felt good to sort of stand up that way.
give it to these people that have done the wrong thing.

(52:46):
You know, I mean, there's power in them.
know, then as people, can feel that you're kind of on the right side of history.
And without being moralistic or triumphalist about that, just saying, well, in the longrun, you know, you know, right.
We're saying the right thing here.
We're trying to do the right thing here and tell people about it.

(53:07):
It came from a genuine concern from us.
It wasn't marketing.
It wasn't trying to be successful.
from the heart, you we really wanted to make that point.
other, Sydney Olympics thing was the same.
You we wanted to the protest and make that point and get out alive, which we did.
And Jim, just some broader questions.

(53:28):
So over your amazing careers, both a guitar and a keyboard player, but I mean, it's ashim, the keyboard focus here.
Did you pick up any playing tips from other players over your career?
on top of the fact that you constantly evolved and learned yourself, like where there'ssome things you've picked up, you go, this influences my approach to playing.

(53:48):
Yeah, I definitely learned from Chris Abrams about minimal, minimalism and have seeking toone note.
When all the notes change around you a little bit like Paul McCartney's harmonies on someof the early Beatles.
So it just sits on the one note that getting that center, right.
It's really nice that you can, you know, that's the thing you can learn on the keyboard to

(54:10):
You know, and with a band, especially you just don't muck around too much with the lefthand.
mean, I just don't want to get in the way of anybody.
I think it can sound better when if you're playing on your own, well, obviously the lefthand is really important.
And my left hand is actually shocking me that.
But the, needs work.
There's still room for improvement, obviously, but people like Chris really inspired me.

(54:32):
Sean as well is just a beautiful player and such a lovely touch.
You don't have to play loud.
I think I learned that from Sean.
You just have to connect with the instrument like, you know, like it would do with thegolf club.
You just connect with the ball.
not that I can play golf either, but I think it's, it's about connecting to theinstrument.
It's about having a voice and I could probably play more technically brilliantly if Ipractice more.

(55:00):
I did have the lessons a few years ago actually.
I did.
Out of that came a piece called a crocodile cries, which is on Capricornia, which is sortof this.
It's a of a pegiated sort of song where like a good exercise for the keyboard and Ithought, well, actually I'm going to use that as a piece of music.
Made it up to the piano lesson where at the piano lesson, the piano teacher wrapped me upwith left hand.

(55:23):
Imagine a 45 year old getting hit by an angry piano teacher.
yeah, know, I said, went, you know, don't do that.
You know, it's really cruel.
You've raised a really good issue there though, Jim, and it's wasn't what I was expectingto talk about, but I mean, I'm of a similar vintage and I know there are lots of listeners
out there that who may not have had lessons or had minimal lessons.

(55:46):
You did get some benefit from that.
What were the key benefits of, you know, approaching that later in life?
Yeah, well, I mean, just doing scales and just doing the, you know, one, three, one,three, you know, one, two, one, three, one, you know, that, and then going backwards.
That was a revelation to me, really open up a whole world.
of being able to just sort of connect and do things with more facility.

(56:10):
Yeah, it's a funny thing.
It's like I see the keyboard more as a thing for the imagination that you can play high,play low, play in the middle.
I see it more of a sonic thing, I think, really at the basis of it.
Yeah, I think a lot of people gave up the piano too when they were kids because it waskind of brutal the way they were taught.

(56:31):
maybe the post-war world where people were being very tough and very mean.
Put a lot of people off.
My daughter regrets the fact she gave up, know, lessons.
But I think her teaching was a bit like that too.
think it was, you know, the teacher would say it is necessary and stick with it, stickwith it.
But just the way it's done is very crucial.

(56:51):
If people want to stick with it.
I think, you know, I'd love to have stuck with it.
I know I work with
did a bit of work with Neil Finney.
He's a beautiful piano player.
His left hand's really good.
Because he stuck, he did live to about grade eight with his lessons.
So there's someone who can really get on happening.
And it's because he stuck to it.
And I think a lot of kids give up at grade one or two because they just don't fancy it.

(57:14):
It's really sad actually.
I think a lot of people could benefit more from sticking with it.
And you don't really have to read music.
I think you just get to have the facility to get your ideas out.
You know, like, you know, if you get back to the golf analogy, but if you just have enoughlessons to get you over the line and you could probably relax and then enjoy it.

(57:40):
Yeah.
Great.
Great perspective.
And it probably links in with a question I was going to ask you, which is around impostersyndrome.
We've talked to a few players and no matter how successful there's still a little bit ofthat imposter syndrome that creeps in.
is that something you still suffer from that sits in the back of your mind at times?
That's a great question.

(58:01):
yeah, you know, I think you've just got to believe that your what you have to offer isyours.
It's you.
It's as good or it's just going to be different from, know, you know, your thing might notbe to everyone's taste, but that's OK.
I mean, I think you you if long as you sort of respect that that in a voice that you cannurture that and you can.

(58:27):
I think at a certain point in my career, I realized that nurturing the creative spirit wasmore important than anything else.
And I, wherever it's on a piano or a guitar, you, it's you, you know, it's pure.
It's like, it's beautiful.
Just, just let that come out somehow and don't judge it.
You know, don't be harsh on yourself.
I think that part of the problem with a lot of people is that they're far too hard onthemselves.

(58:53):
you should stop giving yourself a hard time, you know, like
relax and make music and trust the fact that well, you know, depends how long you've beenin the business, but if you've been in as long as I have, you kind of go, well, think it's
all right.
Yeah, I think my hackles aren't being as on back of my neck going up, that must be a thingor my hackles aren't being going up that much.

(59:17):
So it must be all right.
And Boster syndrome is a bit like a lack of confidence.
It's sort of like
there's always someone better than me.
I'm not good.
I'm not good.
And that's really people saying, for love.
Yeah.
Love me.
You know, I am good.
I know.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You're really good.
Yeah.

(59:37):
I thought it was.
It's just a lot of bullshit, No, perfectly put.
I love it.
Well, it's sort of it's sort of a trick.
You're playing on yourself to sort of stop you from doing what you want to do in life.
No, I couldn't agree more.
We're getting into psychology here now.
Yeah, but it's an important issue.
And I think, yeah, a lot of players definitely, you know, experience that.

(59:59):
I I know I certainly do.
And it probably links in with tips for players.
So I mean, if, you've got someone that's in their late teens or early twenties, you know,going into the music industry, it's obviously a very different industry to what it was
when you were a similar age.
But you know, any tips for players coming into the industry to that are facing a 30, 40year hopeful career in

(01:00:20):
and what you've learned that you think might be useful.
Well, a couple of things.
think find people around you that are the good people and that you can develop a rapportand collaboration.
It's very hard to do it on your own.
mean, Todd Rungan made records on his own.
Brilliant.
But he had other skills.
He had other production skills as well with other people.

(01:00:43):
know, he could work with other people too.
The great records he made with, you know, obviously, know, Grand Park Railroad and MeetLife and
Whoever, strange examples, but anyone can't think of any.
the NAS, even, even bad finger.
so yeah, just, just enjoy collaboration and realize that it's not all about you.

(01:01:05):
Sometimes with other people, can, you can make something even higher.
Take, take it to a high level.
If you find the right people, that is, which is always the trick.
and sometimes it doesn't sound good in the beginning, but if you trust.
Develop the trust thing with the person.
That's where chemistry comes from.
And some of the great bands have great chemistry.
know, look at Paul Chisell are going right now and they're just fantastic because theyhave such a chemistry it's undeniable.

(01:01:32):
It's built up over years and years of trust and understanding and listening to each other.
It's a beautiful thing.
The other thing I'd say to people is to sort of think about writing songs.
You know, it's okay.
You know, you might have something to say that no one else is saying.
That's that's yours.
It doesn't belong to anyone else.
Whether it's, you know, mean, people have started from very, very small beginnings.

(01:01:56):
Usually it sounds like shit at the start and it sounds terrible.
then you, you find a way through.
mean, everyone's got a different way to do that.
You know, everyone, if we could listen, listen to 10 different people and talk about howthat started, like the Joni Mitchell with all the open tunings that was obviously having a
beautiful voice, but a very unusual sense of music and more.

(01:02:18):
what you call jazz, I suppose, even right from the start, but she had a very differentworldview.
They're probably people at the time would have gone, you shouldn't do that.
You should keep it simple, Mike.
You know, stop messing around with those guitar picks.
So she pursued it and she found her voice.
So it's, it's just takes time.

(01:02:39):
Time's the only real, well, it's the most important thing.
You know, just give yourself time to get to that point where you don't give up.
No.
giving us too easy.
not, it's not what we should be doing.
It's like just trust something, find something that you can is yours and work the hell outof it and collaborate and be open to working with other people.

(01:03:03):
That's all I'd say.
Brilliant.
No, that's, that's brilliant.
And, it's speaking of Joanie and iconic records, your five desert Island discs, Jim, sofive records, you, if you had to take them there, what, would they be?
god, hate these sort of questions.
Alright, I take the Bach Loot Suites, played by Julian Brim, Loot Suites number two, oneand two, the RCA recording, the RCA Victor, the Red album.

(01:03:34):
That album is just everything about music and guitar playing to me.
I take, well I probably take the White album, I have to take a Beatles record, the Whitealbum because it's long, at least I could spend more time with it.
That's pretty amazing, even when you play it now, it's an extraordinary bit of music andproduction work.

(01:03:57):
It's just incredible, the way that chemistry has been.
Just to enjoy that.
At five you say, okay, well, I'll probably take Focus 3 with Yarnoakermann, because Inever thought they were a prog band, you know, even though there's the flute and the
yodeling.
which could get a bit much.
just love the guitar.

(01:04:17):
They were just a good rocking band to me.
They had jazz influences like Pierre van der Linden's, Rummy and Young's playing.
But you know, there's little distortion on that record.
It's really happening.
It's loud.
It jumps out.
The improvised section is the ones I like the most, where it gets into that sort ofNorthern European thing.
It's good, but it's...

(01:04:39):
When I actually let rip, that's the business.
Two more.
Okay.
I'd say...
Yeah, Joe Pass's album, Virtuoso, would be a really beautiful record, just solo guitar.
Just incredible playing.
For the fourth one, fifth one, I'd probably take a classical record.

(01:05:00):
I think it would probably be someone like Vladimir Horowitz playing the piano or...
Yep.
There's a Keith Jarrett album I was listening to the other day, which is fantastic.
That's a good one.
Just someone who can really play and move around.
But I think you're cutting me a bit.

(01:05:22):
I'll have another go at it later.
It'll be completely different.
No, they're great.
They'd be the real core ones.
think Pop, great ensemble playing classical music.
Bach's my favorite composer by and large.
just adore him.
Anything of his would be beautiful.
Any of one of his pieces.

(01:05:45):
Probably any of that, you know, with a good plan.
Yeah.
No, wonderful picks.
Thank you.
And look, they cannot thank you enough, Jim, for taking the time.
know you're about to go out on tour and I'm super excited to be catching one of your gigson the tour.
Just tell our listeners a bit what you've got planned for our Australian listeners,Alicia.

(01:06:07):
You're playing a handful of gigs across Australia, if remember.
Yeah, I just like playing in December now.
That's my thing.
I just don't play once a year.
Well, we did it last year.
We're going to Melbourne.
We're going to Daisy Bones on the 12th in Sydney.
Boneswick Forum on the 8th.
Canberra on the 6th of December.

(01:06:29):
Wollongong on the 13th and Byron Bay on the 15th.
And it'll just be me solo singing and playing piano for the new record and then using thepiano to go into some of the oars material.
that I feel ownership of that isn't necessarily the hits, the sort of the more deep thingslike deeper cuts, I suppose.

(01:06:51):
Things that I can kind of just feel more comfortable with those ones.
think Pete, such an individual singer.
Yeah.
I don't want to sort of put on his toes at all.
I'd rather just go into more on charter stuff that the Awe's would barely ever play.
Things like shipyards in New Zealand and nothing lost, nothing gained or even some of thethings from Breed, things like common ground.

(01:07:15):
and do a few covers as well.
love Robert white, you know, some Australian songs, maybe, you know, surprise, try andsurprise people.
If you've got any requests, I'll give them a go.
And then probably the end of the night, you know, bring on Hamish and do some, the newrecord and then, you know, end up with a playing a bit of a Suzuki, which is the new sort

(01:07:37):
of acoustic instrument.
even play with the oils on the last couple of tours.
And then end up maybe on the electric guitar, sort of having a bit of a rock out.
we'll see.
know, Hamish and I get together every Thursday and we'd see what works and what doesn't.
So that's been really good process.
Just with two instruments, you can make quite a lot of noise.
Absolutely.

(01:07:57):
So he's such a beautiful subtle player too.
He's very sympathetic and percussion.
He's really a percussionist really, think.
It'll be fun.
And I just enjoyed playing and enjoy getting up and meeting people and, and, know,telling, telling just a life in music, really, it's just a continuation of what I did with

(01:08:19):
the oils.
And it's the next phase of it really works.
It's more about just going more journeyman rather than rock star.
It's two different styles.
No, we're very excited to see the noise.
cannot thank you enough, Jim.
It's been an absolute honor to have you on the show.
We're barely scratching the surface, but that is
Talking about musical instruments and nerdy stuff, we didn't actually talk that nerdy.

(01:08:44):
No, we did well.
We did well.
And there we have it.
I hope you enjoyed that interview with Jim.
We certainly traversed some territory and we always say we could have covered so muchmore, but Jim's obviously a deep thinker on a range of topics and is passionate about a

(01:09:10):
bunch of issues that are important to all of us.
So you cannot thank him enough for his time.
And I know I'm excited.
I've actually not seen Jim perform live as a solo artist.
I've certainly seen Midnight Oil a couple of times.
say the least, but I'm very excited to see Jim behind that piano and playing some of thoseamazing songs from his new album.

(01:09:33):
Do check out our show notes for the links to the new album.
It'll be available on a range of services and believe me, it's worth a listen.
I've had the privilege of getting a preview of it and I'll certainly be buying it in itsown right as well.
So again, huge thanks to Jim, a huge thanks to all of you out there for listening and alsoto our Gold and Silver sponsors.
So Tammy Katcha from Tammy's Musical Stew.

(01:09:55):
Thank you as always Tammy, much appreciated.
Mike from MidnightMastering.com.
If you're after some great mixing and mastering on your own works, please do considerMike.
And I think I mentioned last episode, Mike and one of my other brothers in arms from thevirtual band days of Res Rocket Surfer or Rocket Network.
Steve Gregory is joining us for an extra episode in the next month or so, which I'mexcited to do.

(01:10:20):
Dave Bryce and the team at the musicplayer.com forums and the keyboard corner inparticular.
Great place to hang out and talk on a whole range of keyboard related issues.
Cannot recommend them highly enough.
And last but definitely not least, Mr.
Dewey Evans from the lovely land of Wales.
cannot thank him enough for his ongoing support.
And we appreciate your consideration of support on Patreon as well.

(01:10:44):
It definitely helps us keep this little boat afloat.
We do have a few expenses with it.
And if you go to patreon.com forward slash keyboard Chronicles for basically a couple ofbucks a month, you can really help us keep doing what we do, but it is hugely appreciated.
So again, thank you for listening.
We'll be back again in a couple of weeks.

(01:11:05):
And in the meantime, keep on playing.