Patrick Warren is someone whose music you will definitely have heard at some stage, given his prolific film and TV composition career. Then there’s his production, touring and session work with a who’s who of artists…. To listen / watch: Audio-only: click on the play button in the audio player above, or: Video: watch the...
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(00:07):
Welcome to the Keyboard Chronicles, a podcast for keyboard players.
I'm your host, David Holloway, and I'm thrilled as always to be here with you.
I've just gotten off a brilliant chat with Mr.
Patrick Warren.
As you'll hear when we talk to Patrick, he's had an extensive career both in liveperformance and studio recording, as well as a burgeoning TV scoring and composition and
(00:28):
arrangement career.
As we always say, it's hard to not...
just scratched the surface with guests like Patrick, but we've certainly given it our bestshot and there's lots of fascinating insights into both sort of the live touring,
recording and composition genres.
Some great anecdotes involving people as white as Diana Krall to Bob Dylan to forming atthe White House to Amy Mann, Michael Penn, you name it, we've covered it.
(00:57):
So I think you'll enjoy it a great deal and I'll talk to you at the end of the show.
Patrick, it's an honour and a privilege, sir.
It's so lovely to see you.
Are you keeping warm over there on that chilly Wednesday afternoon?
(01:20):
We have some lovely rain.
makes me very happy is we're in desperate need of air.
Yes, I've heard that.
No, look, pleasure to have you on.
So I thought we'd, we're going to cover quite a bit of ground during this interview, but Ithought we'd start off just even with your 2024.
So I said in the introduction before the show that you're incredibly busy and incrediblyprolific.
(01:42):
So just taking, not even counting your film and TV composition, which we're going tocover, but just in 2024 alone, you've worked with Mike Campbell and the Dirty Knobs, Avril
Lavigne, Andre, Bocelli.
Bruce Springsteen and I've left out about four or five.
Number one, how do you keep up that pace?
And number two, tell us about what the highlights of the past year have been for you.
(02:03):
Okay, well, the pace seems to be easy enough.
What I did was I built a studio in my backyard.
So I no longer have a backyard, but it's just an easy walk with a cup of coffee across thethreshold and then I'm good to go.
And it's nice and it's nice and quiet in here.
So I seem to be able to get a lot done at different hours between naps.
(02:25):
That's so important.
But yeah, it's been a blast working with Mike Campbell.
I just finished another song with him last week.
unbelievably brilliant songwriter.
I had no idea what a great songwriter and lyricist he was.
So that's been an absolute treat.
And we have a big project coming up that I'm not allowed to speak about.
(02:45):
No, that's amazing.
And you raise a good point there, Patrick.
So your backyard studio, so a lot of your work, like most composers, arrangers and so onnow, you're tending to do a lot of remote work.
So you're working on tracks that are sent through rather than being in the studio with awhole bunch of other people.
That seems to be the MO these days and you have to sort of build a trust with the variousproducers.
After a while they get to know you and then they just send you a song and say do yourthing and they don't care what you...
(03:11):
But there's always that initial period if they don't know you like well they'll suggestsome part and it'll not be right so you have to just override it anyway.
Yeah, that's right.
Do you miss the older approach to recording?
More than I can possibly say, all the best things I've ever done have been done in thatformat, mostly with T-Bum Burnett and Joe Henry, who always record as an ensemble live
(03:37):
without click.
And you're always going to get something special during those moments.
Provided you don't drink too much of the wine that's usually...
That's always a good tip.
Regular listeners and viewers of the podcast know that I'm absolutely a Springsteentrezik.
So what involvement did you have on the best of Springsteen album?
(03:59):
I've done a couple of things with Springsteen, not recently, but I worked with BrendanO'Brien many years ago on some Michael Penn records, so that's the connection.
And I just get funny calls out of the blue for him, like, come in here and play piano onthis or Chamberlain on that or bring some weird sounds.
And Brendan is one of those guys that has enough energy to power a city.
have to, the pace, and we do it in the studio with him, but the pace is mind-numbing.
(04:26):
I can imagine, he's a powerhouse.
Now that's wonderful.
I thought, that's, as I said, that was just the last year, but let's just take a bit of astep back.
So what was your musical upbringing, Patrick, as far as a child and teenager that led youto developing a career in music?
Well, like any child or many children, my mother forced me to take piano lessons since theage of six or seven, I can't remember, pretty young age, which I hated.
(04:52):
And I had to practice 30 minutes a day.
So I had a sand timer that she would put on and we would put it up and I would practice myMozart for 10 minutes.
I'd flip it over so the same 10 minutes would go backwards.
So I was really only doing 20 minutes.
But it wasn't until around the age of, I say 13 or 14 when my mother said, right, you'reold enough to make your own decisions, you can quit.
(05:13):
Then I started thinking about whether or not I wanted to actually continue this.
And about the same time I was thinking about that, I was hearing Joe Cocker, Leon Russell,and all these kinds of things.
like, oh my God, I can't play guitar, but I can play piano.
Maybe like any kid, I could be in a rock band.
Then I started to practice more diligently and whatnot.
(05:36):
parts of blank, but eventually as an older person, I ended up at CalArts as a pianoperformance major and also took some composition classes there.
And then very long story short, and then out of CalArts, met Michael Penn, a greatsongwriter, Sean Penn's brother, and that was sort of my first professional gig.
And then sort of snowballed from there.
I was going to ask you about that.
(05:56):
So obviously that was a hugely successful first gig.
mean, Michael Penn had a number of great hits and he certainly resonated even down here inAustralia.
And obviously as part of the research I noted in your acting credits were obviously hismega hit No Myth and you were in the clip.
So you even had your acting appearance there.
And the first thing that jumped out at me, Patrick, is A, you don't look a lot different.
(06:20):
Sure, the hair's a bit grey, but basically you don't.
got what you fit?
Thank you kindly.
And the other thing is what it, I assume it wasn't a chamber when you play, what was theinstrument you were playing in that clip?
was fascinated by what it was.
That is a Chamberlain.
Oh, it Yeah, and we often, because the inside was so strange looking, we often would takethe lid off.
Gotcha.
(06:40):
I had a tension first.
There's a huge, we call it the flywheel, but what it is essentially is a giant capstansideways across many, many rules of tape.
And I tended to use it as a sort of a, how do you call it, a whammy bar?
All you could do is slow it down.
(07:00):
You can't speed it up, but you can.
You could swoop into notes and stuff like this.
I was always messing with that thing.
So we just took the lid off and I used it that way off.
Yeah.
So let's talk about, we might as talk about the Chamberlain now.
So I know it's, I don't think it's fair to just say it's a precursor to the Metaltronbecause there's so much more than that, but tell us about the Chamberlain and your, how
you initially, you know, sort of discovered it and developed a relationship with it whereyou're now considered, you know, sort of one of the subject matter experts on the
(07:28):
instrument.
Well, I had heard of Chamberlain's when I was in high school in the early 70s and I'dalways dreamed of one.
they had Mellotrons at the old guitar centers back then, but Chamberlain I heard was thething.
So when I met, 100 years later, I met Michael Penn, he had one and he had it sort ofenshrined on a shelf like a temple.
(07:53):
And I said, well, let's say it goes to Chamberlain, but we don't play that.
It was too valuable.
Finally, one day, we were working on song, I talked to him into bringing it down.
He and I both realized immediately the connection with his music and me personally withthe instrument.
I'd always dreamed of being able to play orchestral sounds with a keyboard from a veryyoung age.
(08:17):
And here it was.
Samplers hadn't been invented yet.
next thing you know, I'm playing it on all his music.
And then I bought four more.
you could get them back then.
I just had chamberlains all over the damn place.
they just kind of snowballed from there.
I ended up on a...
I can't remember the order of things, but I ended up putting it on a bit of Fiona Applerecord and Amy Mann records and Macy Gray.
(08:43):
And I can't...
I don't remember the order of all the events, but it just kept...
I kept getting calls like, want that sound on my record.
That's amazing.
And how many do you own now Patrick?
I think I'm down to two.
I don't like to take them out anymore.
I don't like to look at them.
I've put them on too many records.
there are many people around that maintain them anymore, Patrick, because can imaginethat's a challenge as far as maintenance.
(09:07):
It is a challenge.
Back in the day, the inventor of the chamberlain, who actually is the inventor of theMelodion, Harry Chamberlain, he invented tape keyboard instruments.
He lived in Upland, California, which is an hour and a half due east of me.
So I would often visit him and he would make me tapes and they were built by his children.
So Richard Chamberlain had a garage with all the parts and we would often work on thoseinstruments.
(09:31):
And I learned a lot about the maintenance on them.
really
contraptions.
The motors are literally from refrigerators and all the parts are like motorcyclebushings.
It's a hodgepodge of parts that somehow works, but they do need to be tweaked andmaintained and they love to be played.
The less you play them, the more upset they get when you start them up again.
(09:54):
Sounds like a refrigerator.
That sounds like a refrigerator Patrick.
The belts go bad and we're always looking for new belts.
But I got really good at maintaining them over the years.
I toured with them for, oh my God, almost 10 years.
I just dragged them around, often two at a time.
So I could leapfrog them from gig to gig and whatnot.
Well, because they'd be quite weighty, wouldn't they?
(10:15):
yeah, I used to know the exact weight.
Heavy enough.
Yeah, exactly.
So obviously working with Michael Penn and I'm also came to a bad 80 man, but what was,what was the next sort of significant gig for you after or in parallel with Michael Penn
that got you really established in the industry?
(10:36):
I think it was probably the first Fianna Apple record, was obviously a very big record.
I believe that's the next big thing that happened.
I remember the correct order of things, but I would say that record.
But I was at some point on tour with Michael, he had met Amy and they had become a couple.
So I ended up playing in a lot of Amy's things and touring with her frequently back in theday.
(10:57):
But that was more like family.
And I'm as much an Amy Mann fan as I'm a Bruce Springsteen fan.
I mean, I'd love to talk a little bit about your work with her.
consider her alongside Michael as well, obviously, but her as one of the greatestsongwriters of the 80s, 90s and three to today.
She's just amazing.
It's prolific.
(11:18):
What sort of adjustments did you have to make as a player to work with her or it was afairly easy relationship from the start?
Not much.
The interesting thing about her, she's obviously one of my favorite songwriters of alltime.
The interesting thing about Amy is that I can go further outside the lines, almost on theborder of absurd sounds, and they don't sound absurd in her songs.
(11:41):
It works so beautifully.
It's the sort of sarcastic strangeness that I don't have the right adjective for what'shappening, but I listen to everything from a melodica to just the craziest.
sound and it absolutely works in her songs and I don't know why.
So it's always an adventure recording.
mean we did Bachelor number two, a record that I really love and we were sort ofchanneling Burt Bachrach records at the time and just putting on strange Burt Bachrach
(12:11):
parts and it was just working so beautifully.
I have no idea why.
Yeah.
I think sarcastic strangeness is the perfect encapsulation of this whole genre.
think that's perfect.
She should release an album called that.
That's amazing.
No, thank you for that, Patrick.
And because you have worked with so many artists and I'm keen to get onto the otheraspects of your career, I'm just going to throw some names at you.
(12:35):
And if anything jumps out as being memorable, and I'm also going to ask you at the end ofthis section, just to tell us about.
artists that are memorable to you if I haven't already called them out.
So Tom Waits, obviously an icon.
Tell us about any involvement there.
That was just one last sort of a dream come true.
I've been an absolute weights fanatic for a very long time.
(12:56):
think the oddly the first record I ever heard was Frank's Wild Years.
to this day, it's is one of my favorite records of all time.
But long story short, he called me, I don't know, sometime.
And he was going on a tour and he wanted to help with a sampler.
He wanted to use a sampler.
And that's why I set him up with some of my sounds.
I said, don't share these.
(13:17):
These are really cool sounds, but they're fine for you.
And him not remembering that called me many years later for the Glitter and Doom tour.
I think the last tour he did in maybe 2008, I want to say.
And I got a call from management saying, Tom Waits, would you be interested?
I said, I pretty much drop anything I'm doing.
And they said, great.
So they talked about an audition.
(13:38):
Tom called me, talked to me on the phone.
We were just sharing stories.
And I knew I still had to audition for him.
He hung up and he called me back three minutes later and just said, the gig's yours.
So.
Whatever I said on the phone seemed to indicate the right thing for him.
So that was an absolute revelation how he works.
Some things he does are so spontaneous and so fast that your head is spinning.
(14:03):
And other times he's so attuned to what he needs.
I need a church bell.
I have 15 church bells.
I'll play them.
No, not that one.
No, not that.
No, not that one.
He'll get the one that he wants and it's just a certain sound that he heard in his headand he'll get after it and I'll find it for him.
(14:26):
that the tour, although it was a short tour, think, if I remember, eight weeks or too muchor something, but it was just, we, because we learned his whole catalog, almost 60 songs
or something like, not his catalog's much larger, but we learned some 60 odd songs and hiswife would shuffle the cards every night and pick out a set list and I would frantically,
I had little.
I couldn't remember every key of every song.
(14:48):
I was going to ask you, so that eight week tour and you mentioned that you toured withMichael Penn as well.
Just how has touring treated you?
So is there something you enjoy doing?
And I know we quite often talk to artists that as you get older, it gets harder too.
There's no doubt about that.
do you, what were the things you'd learnt from touring that you enjoyed and maybe not somuch?
(15:09):
Well touring is that you have one, two hours of this great energy on stage and then forthe next 24 hours you're basically a UPS package just getting shipped somewhere.
You can only read so many books on a bus.
I'm not a big drinker so I have beer like I'm going to bed with my books.
But as you get older especially, because I toured I think all the way up to about 2014,camaraderie becomes really important, almost as important as musicianship.
(15:38):
And so there's not a
person I've toured with that doesn't feel like family at some point unless something wentwrong.
mostly everybody I know when you see them again, even though it's been 10 years, it's justlike you were on the bus yesterday or something.
I do love it.
I do miss it.
But then off of when I'm out, I'm like, God, why did I do this?
(15:58):
Why am I doing this?
Exactly.
No, I'm hearing you.
And another name to throw at you, Patrick, Bonnie Raitt.
Yes, I did a lovely record with her that Joe produced, Joe Henry, and he had for about 10years a beautiful studio in South Pass that was in the basement floor of a historical
landmark house.
(16:19):
was, I think, President Garfield's widow's house or something.
built this, he built this studio and it was an absolutely lovely experience and, you know,frightening also because she has a regular band.
Part of the record was going to be a regular band, but
Here I am playing with her for the first time and she's a monster musician.
But I think what we did came out really beautifully and I'm proud of it.
(16:41):
And Joe's a brilliant producer.
And it was all very, very live.
No, obviously, because it's Joe, no click, no nothing.
Just go for it.
Yeah, that's right.
And maybe it's worth talking a little bit about Joe Henry because you have worked with himquite extensively.
So tell us about that relationship there and as you said, that more live film and yourwork with him.
Just basically like a brother to me.
He's just one of the most wonderful human beings I've ever known.
(17:05):
after much like working with Michael Pan, when you work with somebody for 10 or so years,it becomes very instinctual.
so certain songs I would record or play with him, even though there's no meter or no time,just like to hear the intake and the breath on a note when he got down on the piano.
(17:25):
And he guides the ship beautifully.
encourages me to reach for things that I would normally had not reached for.
And that's always a really good thing when you feel you have that freedom to reach out tosomething special like that.
Yeah, that's great.
And the last name I want to throw you is more of a complete unknown, Bob Dylan.
(17:46):
That was one of those wild calls.
First you get the call, like somebody's going to call you and it's important to pick upthe phone.
Then it's Bob's manager and he says, Bob's making a Christmas record and he wants you tocome in.
says, and he explained you might be there for an hour.
You might be there for a week.
And I totally understood.
I said, I got nothing.
(18:06):
Don't worry if he kicks me out.
If he doesn't vibe with somebody, I'm sure he says, I have nothing.
won't, no upset on it.
I understand.
So I walked into this session.
And he had to spin it.
And the first thing he said was, don't want you to play the sustain pedal at all.
No sustain pedal.
Yes, sir.
And the next question within two seconds is, do you know any way they can sing like theAndrew Sisters?
(18:28):
And without a hesitation, I said, yes, sir, I have them here tomorrow because I'm in L.A.
I can find that.
I didn't even think twice about it.
made two two calls and I had them there the next day.
And these singers, a duo called the Diddy Bops and another
great singer Nicole.
Anyway, they all came in and they just sang their ass off beautifully around a mic.
(18:51):
He's all around one mic and he's blowing smoke in their face with a cigarette and theydon't care because it's freaking Bob Dylan's.
And from there I was in for the rest of the week.
I understood his pacing.
He doesn't linger on anything.
And we had a moment when he wanted somebody to sing with the Leuven brothers so he broughtin some male choirs.
(19:12):
And they were fussing and they were looking at charts and like, you sing the D flat andyou sing the F natural.
And I could see Bob's, he's about to start.
He's about to drop this whole idea.
So I walked over to him.
said, you guys can about 30 seconds to get your shit together.
He's onto the next song.
And immediately they did.
And I just do what I was saying.
(19:33):
So I think I understood how to read him pretty fast.
And he's absolutely brilliant.
And his call like no sustaining pedal was actually a great call for the.
for the record.
And I think that ability to read people, Patrick, it's obvious you have that skill.
And when we move on to the film and TV, I suppose it's being able to read cues as well, asfar as from what you're seeing, being able to read how you translate that musically.
(19:56):
So obviously that's a skill that's paid off.
Yes, I don't know where I got it from,
Just, yeah, just take it, just take it.
And so the last part of this section, I wanted to ask you, Patrick, is there someone thatstood out from the vast amount of people you've worked with in that sort of recording and
live and touring part that has really stood out to you as a highlight, if it's possible topick one.
(20:18):
Oh, that's very, very tough.
think, mean, the Tom Waits tour I did was hands down the best, my favorite tour of alltime touring wise.
No, no question about it.
I was, was, I was stretching my abilities to the max and every song is like you're goingin a different room.
So the whole color palette would change every song and the energy.
(20:42):
He doesn't have a rehearsal mode.
He is full on just belting it like he's on a record.
every moment.
So you're in the front row.
And there was the elements of theater.
had Kathleen was working with directors to create this beautiful set, lighting andeverything.
And the audiences, she went batshit crazy, of course.
(21:03):
that was touring-wise.
Record-wise, it's more like moments, favorite things I've done that I'm proud of.
I wrote a singing arrangement for Lana Del Rey on song called
honeymoon and I was really proud of the way that came out.
That's just one of it.
I did some beautiful work for Common that I'm very, very proud of and things like that,you know, but there's too many to figure out.
(21:30):
I couldn't really figure out a record that was.
Yeah.
And we're going to talk about, I think we'll mention common analysis and stuff in a littlewhile as well.
No, so thank you for that.
That's absolutely brilliant.
And I think it was with Bob, did you do a White House gig?
And the reason I ask is just in the last 24 hours, I've had another guest, Mo Pleasure,who played at the White House for the Obamas.
(21:50):
So just thought it was funny that you've also done a White House gig, I believe.
yeah, that was interesting.
forgot about this.
So after we had done the Christmas record, he was asked by Obama to come play and hewanted, Obama wanted him to do Chimes of Freedom.
So he asked if I could do an arrangement.
So I met him in his little apartment in LA and we went over the song.
(22:12):
The first thing Bob said was, think more people know, times they are changing.
I said, my unborn child knows that song.
So he wanted to do that song.
So Bob played.
on the piano, I brought a little keyboard and I sort of recorded the midi of how he kindof was hearing it.
And from there, I created a very simple waltzy little arrangement that he liked.
(22:34):
then, but I said, you know, if I write this out in the White House band plays that there,if you get lost, they're going to, they're going to plow through, they're not going to
follow you.
So yes, if I wanted to do it like, well, sure.
So off we went and at the, at the White House, doesn't, Bob doesn't do the press meet andgreet stuff.
So we were just.
We didn't really meet anybody.
(22:55):
He just went up there and he played and then we walked down and shaked Obama's hand and itwas over so fast.
But the interesting after thing was he was so delighted with doing it that way that hewanted, he had that idea and said that he wanted to do a record of just piano and him of
the hits.
So we had a few weekends where we got together and went through songs and I thought tomyself, this is maybe the worst idea ever or maybe a good idea.
(23:19):
I might go down as just the worst person in history if this record comes out.
But fortunately, you went on to other things.
just don't, I don't know that anybody needs to hear piano versions of...
So it'll be sitting in that vast Dylan archive.
It'll see the light of day one day.
recorded but it was just an interesting thought that he had.
(23:41):
That's funny.
I appreciate it too.
I definitely want to cover your amazing film and TV career as an arranger and composer.
I thought we'd start off, Patrick, is what was your first involvement in that side ofmusic?
What was your first gig as an arranger or composer?
My first gig for us are Rangers.
At some point, I don't remember.
(24:03):
Oh, I do remember the record.
I think it was very simple arrangement for a Jacob Dillons version of Heroes.
And I had a Chamberlain part or something I played and they said, could you do it for realstrings?
And I had never done it.
I didn't, it was before they had MIDI.
So I penciled it out as best I could and trying to count the bars.
(24:25):
And it was, so that was my first.
And all I'm doing is just the simplest.
I think we're just echoing the vocals that were there or something.
can't remember.
It's a dumb arrangement.
But from there, I started being asked if I could take chamberlain parts and put them intoreal strings.
And that's sort of how I got started arranging and learned.
(24:46):
There's a million things to know.
You can never know even a tenth of what you need to know about arranging or orchestrationor something like that.
But I always wanted to do film.
did little bits and pieces of it with friends of mine.
It was a very slow climb to getting busy with it.
It didn't happen overnight.
I didn't get any big things overnight.
Mostly the bigger things came from working with T-Bone Burnett and also with Common.
(25:10):
And those are some of the bigger gigs I got.
just at one point, I was thinking I was on tour with Diana Krall and we were doing TrueDetective, the first installment of that show.
I loved it because that
Every night in the hotel was writing and sending it back or every day in the hotel andthen doing the shows at night.
So I was very much not bored on tour because I had so much to do.
(25:34):
I wasn't singing any of the cities or anything, but I was very busy sending stuff back.
And that one, Patrick, so that the first series was the one with McConaughey andHarrelson.
Look, and I, no word of a lie, not realizing you're involved in that.
Some of the music in that, it just totally grabbed me from the get go.
That series is one of my favorite series of all time.
It's just, yeah, the music is amazing.
(25:55):
Thank you.
It was very dark.
Yeah, it's very dark here.
love it.
So I actually haven't watched any of the other seasons.
That's the only one I've watched, I, yeah, I do.
And so just, just before we leave arranging.
So what has changed over the years with arranging as far as the process and I supposescoring and composition is the same as far as it feels like compared to live touring and
(26:17):
recording in a studio that the actual scoring process hasn't changed radically.
Sure.
The software has gotten better if you're using software, but has
Broadly the process pretty much remained the same.
I think so.
mean, the event of software has really changed the game for a person like myself who Idon't hear in my head how a flutent and oboe we're going to mix.
(26:41):
But now I can put it up there and listen and say, maybe I like that better in octaves orsix or just unisons.
because the libraries are pretty good these days, you're going to get a fairly accuraterepresentation of what's about to happen with a live orchestra.
I mean, if they're willing to play for the live orchestra.
So from that point of view, it's been very helpful.
(27:02):
When it comes to larger full orchestra stuff, I usually work with orchestrators becausethe time limit is crunch.
And some of them are very more like copyists, like just tick tick tick.
But some of them have offer ideas.
And I love when that happens too.
Like, you thought about doing this or doing that?
But the software really has been a game changer for a...
(27:24):
doing that kind of thing because I wouldn't know that, you know, that really, that, yeah,I know it now, but like a bassoon gets louder as it goes down, where clarinet gets quieter
as it goes down, vice versa, as they both go up.
You need to know these things as you're writing.
You know, they're all important things to know.
(27:45):
Does the software tend to guide that a little bit?
Now, obviously the software knows the general ranges of orchestral instruments and so on.
Does it tend to know some of those idiosyncrasies of the instruments?
Now, has it evolved to that stage where you need to manually factor that in?
Well, because they're all chromatic recordings of real instruments, you'll hear it rightaway.
You'll hear that this, wow, this bassoon gets kind of fat and honky down there and it getsvery beautiful up there, but it's not very loud.
(28:09):
Well, that's going to be accurate.
That's going to be accurate to your, you could turn it up, but you can't turn it up in theorchestra.
It is the volume it works at.
And also with strings or I mean, there's, took some more orchestration and rangingclasses.
There's some basics that you should know, but even those things are, all those rules aremeant to be broken.
start out knowing the basics and then from there, stretch it.
(28:32):
And it sounds like some of your key outputs in composition and arranging have beencollaboration.
So you've mentioned common, mentioned T-Bone, Burnett.
What is the approach at the start of a project?
let's use Alison, I assume that's what you're talking about when you work with common.
Tell us about how that collaboration worked from the start of the project to completion.
(28:53):
Common is one of my favorite producers of all time.
He just creates an atmosphere of joy and love in the studio like none other that I've everexperienced in my life, which really creates a sort of a willingness on the part of
players to just go for something they wouldn't normally go for.
We'll often have seven players in a room at the same time.
(29:16):
But when it comes to arranging, he just, no notes.
And he would send me these beautiful songs and
Even though part of him might be a rap and part might be melody, I treat the whole thingas just like a standard American songbook kind of thing.
I just think he's such a great lyricist.
And I was free to go way outside the lines.
(29:36):
think on a record, Black America, again, I was just almost in Prokofiev land with some ofmy lines.
And he loved them.
He's just he has really, really beautiful ears and he's very attuned to it.
And
Anything, anytime I get to work with him is just always an absolute thrill.
Yeah, I do need to check out more of his work.
I'm embarrassed to admit Patrick that I was unaware of Common as a musician.
(30:00):
I actually discovered him watching the Apple TV series, Silo, and loved his acting andthen suddenly realized he was a musician.
So I discovered him in reverse, but yeah, love, love what I've heard.
Yeah, the first thing I did with him was with John Legend.
I did the arrangement for the song Glory for the Selma movie and that song won him anOscar with John Legend.
(30:22):
It wasn't a great arrangement, was just a very functional arrangement, but it was theright arrangement for the song.
was Common's idea to throw out the drums and just have the whole theme be driven by anorchestra.
it was a fun challenge and it worked really well.
Beautiful song that they wrote.
And the other thing I want to ask you as a composer and working in film and TV is thatrelationship with obviously the director and the director, know, directors vary in how
(30:47):
strongly they feel about musical cues and the music overall.
Just tell us about how you've evolved managing that relationship with directors where itneeds to be managed.
That's a different kind of a thing that you have to be willing to do as a composer.
And you're going to throw out a lot of your best work, and you have to be willing to justnot even think twice about it.
(31:09):
Because they're going to have a vision, and often they are not exactly sure what it is.
They'll talk more in terms of this character is, we have stakes here.
They're also in love, and they're just realizing it.
But they'll talk about the scene rather than what the music should be.
And then you have to interpret from that.
I need to get some stakes in here, a little bit of romance and mix it together somehow,figure that out.
(31:32):
And sometimes just the most nondescript cue like a scene in a diner where two people aretalking is extremely important to the director.
And I'll do eight completely different versions of the same cue willingly like that's yourjob and we'll find it together.
And other times it's just I it the first time and that's, and then of course everydirector varies.
(31:54):
Some directors are new, they've been given a show, they're not exactly sure what they'reallowed to do and not do, or what the show is even about sometimes.
Some showrunners don't know, like, what am I doing here?
And others, other times the showrunner is also the writer and the director, and so theyknow exactly where the ship is going.
And it's a process I absolutely love, like throwing out stuff and chasing after stuff,because inevitably we'll get something better, even though it's hard as fuck all, but
(32:22):
that's all.
Excuse my f-
No, that's okay.
No, I think that's a fascinating insight.
For those of us that don't work in film composition or TV composition, nowadays, and Iunderstand it's probably changed a little bit over the years, but nowadays, how much of
the scenes are you getting?
Are you getting pretty much the whole show now to score to, or are still only gettingsnippets and having to work from there?
(32:43):
You get the whole show is an episode.
Mostly I do, mostly I work on series TV.
So the episodes come out every week or maybe the other week and you get a locked cut,meaning what you think it means, it's not to be changed.
Then you get locked cut two, locked cut three, locked cut 3.5.
(33:05):
And that's a disaster because you will have written the fight scene that's got all thesehits and beats and.
everything's perfect and you've timed it out and you've got the orchestration and thetempo map is done and they cut out like a second and like the whole thing just like wait.
What's driving that Patrick?
I assume it's not just your work.
What's driving the changes to the lock cut?
(33:25):
What other factors are, you know, what other parts of the production are causing that?
Sometimes it's latent notes from the network saying, make this shorter, make this longer,or cut this out.
Sometimes it's just a director saying, looking at it, saying, I need to make this a littlebit better, or something like that.
I'm never sure quite what the motivations are, but they're there and they cut it.
(33:47):
But generally, what you hope for is a locked cut, and it'll usually have temp music in it.
Not always, but most of the time.
there's always the spotting session where you're basically discussing, you like thisdirection of this temp?
Should it come in sooner or later?
Should we connect these two cues together?
Things like that.
You'll have a discussion.
(34:07):
And it's very important to take meticulous notes because you'll forget it.
Yeah.
And how much lead time do you get paid?
what, as a general rule, I understand it very widely, generally when you received thatfirst lock cut to when you've submitted the final product, for a, for a network or a
series streaming TV show, how much time do you usually have per episode?
(34:28):
say like if the thing is on schedule you'd have three maybe four days to write the episodeoutside.
the case of a show where I have an orchestra that I need to get parts to that can even bedown to two and a half days of just frantic writing and then because I got to get it to
the copyist and they have to print it and all this and get sessions scheduled and that canbe really nerve-racking.
(34:55):
So what's a normal day in those three or four days?
How many hours are we talking in day?
And what's a, there probably isn't a normal day, but what's your approach on one of thosebusy days?
Just to, I do my best work in the morning.
So my approach is to start, you know, nine or 10 o'clock and work till, you know, one orso.
(35:16):
But if I hit a wall, I've learned the best thing to do is just take a nap or step away.
Because you can struggle with the cue for two hours, or you can just rest your brain andcome back and it'll be written in five minutes.
It'll all occur to you.
And that's taken me a long time to learn that.
Because it's scary when you're like, I have to have this tomorrow.
Just take a...
take a beat, it'll come to you.
(35:40):
The first two or three notes are always the hardest notes.
Like what is this scene?
Is it a cello?
Is it a drum?
Is it a percussion?
Is it just an eerie pad?
What is this?
I don't know.
I'll have a template of 50 or 60 sounds and I'll try them all just to see if anythingconnects me emotionally with what I'm seeing on the screen.
(36:01):
I tend to write with the dialogue up very loud and the sound up very loud.
I consider that part of the arrangement.
What makes sense.
And what software do you use Patrick for?
What was your go-to software when you're doing this?
Okay.
Yeah.
the only one I've ever learned.
I love logic.
Big logic fan here.
No, that's great.
(36:22):
have you ever had, I mean, I understand in TV and film that the director is the directorand they are the boss, but have you ever had any fundamental disagreements?
I assume you always as a composer need to step back and accept the director's decision,but have you ever had any, without naming names, any serious creative differences in that
sort of-
for sure.
Common was an executive producer on a show called The Shy, which was about coming of agein Chicago.
(36:45):
I did the first three seasons and the initial showrunner, a lovely guy, said something oddto me.
He said, I don't like percussion.
Okay.
And I didn't know what that meant.
And then I'm like, this is like my first big job where I'm all by myself.
I'm not with anybody else on this.
So I hear a lot of percussion in this series.
so I have, but he said, he kind of jelted, he but I can be convinced.
(37:07):
And I just started writing what I heard and it
It seemed to go very well, there was a lot of they bumped on anytime I would put emotionalcontent like a note or a major seventh or they'd be like, whoa, whoa, with the notes, Mr.
Sierwinski there, like just the pad, just the, so that was that.
(37:28):
And then on the third season, the actual person who created the show, Waithe, stepped inand said, I hear piano, jazz,
jazz piano and trumpet.
And that's what I'd heard from day one.
And I was like, yes, they thought I would be upset.
Like, no, no, I've been, I've been, this is what I've been hearing on the show forever.
(37:48):
So from there it became very easy.
And then somebody took over after that Wyclef, think.
But that was a season three for me was a really fun season.
I got together with the jazz trumpet player.
We just had an absolute blast writing stuff for it.
And just broadly, again, for those that don't work in the industry, and I'm not surewhether it's changed over the years, I'm assuming it's a, I'm not sure what the right
(38:12):
terminology is, like you're hired to do the work, the rights revert to, assume, thecreator of the show and that you're essentially paid to do the creation or do you retain
any rights?
I have no idea what this answer is, sorry.
Most of the time you don't retain any rights.
mean, you have the 50 % of the writing world, but they own all the music.
(38:34):
If you're a big time composer and they want you, you could probably work out a thing like,you don't have any money up front, but I'll take the publishing and that kind of thing.
But I'm definitely not that guy.
No, no, no, that's good.
you.
Any particular sessions that have stood out to you, as I said, has been particularlymemorable or other directors or musicians you would love to work with in the sort of TV
(39:01):
genre that you, that are on your bucket list.
There's so many TV shows now that are, there's just too many.
It's more like show orientated.
I don't even know who's writing, who's the directors are anymore.
There's too many to follow.
mean, they're really famous ones.
They already have their own.
Yeah, they're going to be reaching for the top A-list composers, but there's genres of TVthat I absolutely love.
(39:28):
I I love sci-fi and I love dark sort of dramas and stuff like that, which always,
I think my orchestrator said, God, Patrick, this is some of the darkest fucking music I'veever heard.
You're the sweetest guy.
Like, I don't understand what's happening.
I do like writing that kind of stuff, but I'm happy to write for comedies too or anything.
(39:51):
So, and I mean, I've been really pleased in recent months, sort of TV composition comingout in social media a lot more.
And one of the drivers that is obviously that amazing TV show, Severance and the composeron Severance.
Now it's incredibly, well, I don't, shouldn't say it's incredibly simple.
It's probably not, but just, it's a beautiful piece of writing for that show.
(40:12):
it's, it's, it's shining the spotlight a lot on, people like yourself and the amazing workthey do, which I'm just really thrilled to see.
Yeah, that's the music on that show is super beautiful.
I forget the composer.
I started that series.
I got somewhere in the middle of it and then I got went somewhere else on another series.
Yeah.
Highly recommend season two.
(40:33):
It's amazing.
Yeah.
no, thank you for that.
And, across all of this, we've obviously talked about the Chamberlain a lot, but both inthe TV work and, and also the recording work, are there keyboards over the years that
you've grown to love aside from the Chamberlain or even what you're currently using now?
Well, I obviously love any kind of word that sir, I have too many of them.
(40:55):
For some reason, I wanted a red top word is served, even though I have a black top word, Ibrought one home and my wife said, so this one sounds different.
And I said, no.
She says, I said, this one's red.
And she said, but it sounds different, right?
And I said, no, she just couldn't just
You're amongst friends here, Patrick.
We all get that.
So I love things like that when I can drag them out in B3s and real instruments, whichit's not very often you can take those out anymore unless you're on a very big tour.
(41:23):
So I generally just rely on my laptop and I have a massive collection of sounds I've madeover the last 30 years.
I have yet to find a keyboard that I love to trigger them.
Right now I'm using, what am I using?
I'm using a strange cheap little Roland RD-88.
Only because I love the
The action matches most of the piano sounds for whatever reason.
(41:47):
And I've never used any sound inside of it, but it works as a trigger for me.
It's lightweight and carry it to small shows and whatnot, know, ship it ahead of time.
It'd be remiss of me to ask, given all the work you do and understand some of its secretsauce we won't go into, but are there string and piano libraries that you use that, know,
(42:09):
staples of what you do, even if you are tweaking the sounds?
For sure.
mean, I lately have been relying heavily for whatever reason, I'm not sure on Spitfirestuff, but I tend to get into it very deeply and I tend to write MIDI controllers for all
the different things it can do.
For just simple arranging, often they have a chamber ensemble, then they upgraded it andit was worse, so I just use the original one.
(42:35):
And I use their solo strings sometimes for quartet arranging.
I used to use LA scoring strings a lot.
think that's actually a...
That's the actual sound on Honeymoon, the Lana Del Rey arrangement.
We had the budget to use a real orchestra, but she liked the sound of what I did withthe...
But I mainly leaned for film scoring and whatnot on that thing.
(42:57):
And then some of the Berlin stuff for whatever, percussion and harps and timpani and stufflike that.
Yeah.
Amazing.
No, thank you.
And we have some standard questions, Patrick.
And one of them is where something's gone spectacularly wrong.
So whether it's on the road or in the studio, wherever you'd like it to be, where it'sbeen an absolute train wreck, but you can look back and hopefully laugh about it.
(43:20):
I think I have two of those that I remember.
Right.
Great.
One was with weights where I was so tired.
I don't remember what happened.
I was exhausted and I got on stage and I have all the cards and we got set list and I'm upthere and there's two songs that have big piano intros.
I think if I remember it quite easily, maybe Falling Down and something about come up tothe house or something.
(43:45):
And one is a waltz and one is not.
And I think it was
I think it was come up to the house, which is in four, and I just started it as a waltz.
Started it and nobody came in and I turned around and the waiters looking at me andeverybody's looking at me and I'm like, started again as a waltz.
(44:05):
everybody's just looking at me and then they just started it as a waltz.
wow.
And I immediately realized, my God.
And so that was the longest three minutes of my life.
Tom Trine sink falling down.
Falling down.
You asked me what happened, I just said battle fatigue.
That's amazing, I've never had one like that before, that's great, love it.
(44:27):
I'll never forget that.
think once with Amy Mann, the Chamberlain has to have shore power.
It can't be plugged into it because it runs at 60 hertz.
So even a little off, like a big generator, you're going to get different notes, same as aB3.
And so they had promised me that I was plugged into shore power.
then big little fair, it's just Amy, myself and one other musician and song starts and itjust turns around.
(44:55):
from 6,000 people says, normally he's a good player.
I'm not sure what's happening.
I said, power.
They got it together about five minutes delay.
That's funny.
Good one.
Thank you, Patrick.
Another one we ask people is to tag a keyboard player.
is there someone else you've run across in your career that you think you've thought, gee,I'd like to find out more about their life story in music.
(45:22):
gosh.
I know that I tend to gravitate towards individual performances of things, know, like froma young age, the first time I heard Stay With Me, know, Ian McGloggan, just that sound
I've been, that way he made a world's first sound, I'm chasing to this day, I cannotfigure out how he made it sound so brilliant and is playing on so many records, just
(45:45):
lovely Rick Wakeman, things like that.
But I've been all over the map in my life, one minute I'm...
When I was kid, I'm like Tony Banks and next minute it's Chick Corea.
I don't really know.
Now I'm just absolutely fascinated by any jazz players.
After having tour with Dan O'Crawl, my mind is kind of blown how brilliant they are, know,even people in my neighborhood.
(46:09):
Yeah, there's so much talent out there.
Agree.
And then we have the dreaded Desert Island Discs question, Patrick.
So if you have to pick five albums, what would they be?
I'm going to go with Hockey Dory was a really important record to me growing up.
It was on vinyl.
I wore it down to the nub several times.
I've become obsessed with a record lately that has discovered, which is Nancy and Lee.
(46:31):
It's Lee Hazlewood and Nancy Sinatra did this record, I guess in the 60s.
I'm not sure the date.
think Billy Strange is the arranger and I had sort of psychedelic cowboy and I've justbecome obsessed.
with this record.
Like the arranging on it is every time I listen to it, I hear something new.
The arranging is just haunting.
(46:52):
And that's one that I wouldn't mind hearing.
I think I would probably pick something like Beethoven's Ninth, like the Leonard Bernsteinversion, just to have one of those Frank's wild years, probably just because it meant so
much to me.
And then maybe just, I'm not picturing myself really stuck on a desert island, maybefreewheeling Bob Dylan or something like that.
Seems like a thing I'd want to hear as I'm dying.
(47:16):
I can honestly say after 140 episodes, Patrick, you've picked five originals.
No one else has picked any of those five.
So there you go.
Interesting.
Okay.
Yeah.
So no, thank you.
And then to round out, have what's called our quick fire 10.
So 10 short questions with 10, hopefully short answers.
So first album, you recall hearing that made an impact on you.
(47:39):
It would be like from a three-year-old, mean like Daniel Boone was a man.
yeah?
Whatever kids.
Actually I would say the one that had the most impact would be Harry Belafonte because mydad was playing it all the time along with mariachi music and that definitely got in my
DNA.
Yeah, classic.
Yeah, no, absolutely.
Before a gig, what do you like to do to feel settled?
(48:01):
So what's your most important pre-gig ritual?
Not to drink for me.
I'll have a glass of wine after, if I even have a sip of wine or something, it's not thatI can't play.
I'm going to hit the wrong patch and a flute's going to come out where a tuba should or atuba's going to come out.
I'm going to do something stupid every time.
So I don't drink.
(48:23):
So cool.
If you hadn't been a musician what do think your career choice would have been?
was a medical tech for seven, eight years and I enjoyed that.
I knew that the odds of making a living in music were rough so I had my own company doingmedical work which I enjoyed.
I did brainwave tests, mobile around hundreds of hospitals.
Mobile diagnostics.
(48:44):
No, that's amazing.
Favorite tour you've ever done?
So yeah, that's yeah.
Favorite gig you've ever done, if that's possible.
I can't think of a specific...
I would, I mean, I guess just recently I wrote three arrangements for a Guatemalan singer,Gabby Moreno, dear friend of mine, performed by the National Symphony Orchestra three or
(49:13):
four years ago under Ben Folds, is a consultant.
And he does this thing called Declassified where he brings in artists and arrangers, putsthem together and then...
presents it with a full orchestra and then you also get to then the audience also hearsclassical music.
So that was a really seeing my arrangement, which I was very proud of song called TillAwakening Light and hearing her watching her sing it with her mother there was very proud.
(49:39):
It was really a moment.
that is, yeah that is a moment.
That's amazing.
Do you have a favourite city that you've played in?
Yes, too.
It's a cross between New Orleans and Seattle, strangely, my two favorite cities.
I tell you why.
No, that's fine.
Name a song that you used to love, but through either recording or touring, you've playedit to death now and you probably happily never play it again.
(50:01):
I don't think I have any song that I...
I'm sure there's probably one, but I'm not thinking of enough to top it right here.
There's some that are like, sure.
It'd probably be a song that I didn't love in the first place.
That's right.
Exactly.
Do you have a favourite music documentary or movie, Patrick, that you've enjoyed over theyears?
(50:21):
I've seen some and now I'm drawing a blank on that question.
Favorite documentary music?
Final tap usually rates up there.
Well, that is can't beat that really mighty wind or any anything in that genre.
So I mean, I tend to not love documentaries about documentaries, but not not recreationsof, like.
(50:46):
Like Rocketman or Bohemian Rhapsody.
Yeah, that kind of stuff.
I tend to just shy away from those.
I agree.
Name one thing you'd like to see invented that'd make your life as a keyboard player orcomposer easier.
Somebody please invent a good controller.
There's just nothing.
That's that much, just a simple great weighted controller.
(51:07):
I don't need any stupid sounds in it.
It just needs to be quality.
Then nobody seems to want to do that.
And then last but not least your favourite non-musical activity or hobby so what keeps yousane outside of music?
I a lot of hiking in the mountains.
I just got back from Bellingham where I spent a couple days hiking up all over thebeautiful, that really tends to refresh my brain.
(51:30):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think it's safe to say Patrick, you've, you, you climb mountains to get out ofmusic, but you've climbed some massive mountains as a musician, composer and arranger too.
And it's been an honor talking with you even just on a little bit of that.
It's hard to emphasize how much broader your career is than what we've chatted on, but Isuper appreciate what we have covered.
(51:50):
I appreciate being invited.
Thank you so very kindly.
And there we have it.
I hope you enjoyed that interview with Patrick.
What a lovely guy.
And wow, some of those experiences, you're you're unforgettable.
(52:12):
So no, hugely appreciate Patrick's time.
I certainly learned a lot and I hope you did as well, particularly for those of us thatdon't have the luck or, well, in Patrick's case, skill to work in those sort of arranging
and composition areas.
It's just fascinating to get a bit of an insight into all of that as well.
So now thank you to Patrick and thank you to all of you out there for listening and
(52:33):
Definitely thank you to our gold and silver supporters as well.
So Dave Bryce and the team at themusicplayer.com forums, we hugely appreciate yoursupport.
The lovely Tammy Katcher at Tammy's Musical Stew, a long time support as well.
Thank you, Tammy.
Mr.
Dewey Evans from the sunny land of Wales.
Thank you, sir, for your ongoing support.
And last but not least, Mr.
(52:53):
Mike Wilcox from Midnight Mastering.
If you're actually creating your own stuff and what a great mixer and masterer, then.
Mike is the guy, so midnightmastering.com.
Thank you all again for listening.
We're always keen to hear from you.
Do drop us a line on editor at keyboardchronicles.com.
We're on all the socials and yeah, always lovely to hear from you.
(53:16):
So thank you again and until next time, keep on playing.
Welcome to the Keyboard Chronicles, a podcast for keyboard players.
I'm your host, David Holloway, and I'm thrilled as always to be here with you.
I've just gotten off a brilliant chat with Mr.
Patrick Warren.
As you'll hear when we talk to Patrick, he's had an extensive career both in liveperformance and studio recording, as well as a burgeoning TV scoring and composition and
(00:28):
arrangement career.
As we always say, it's hard to not...
just scratched the surface with guests like Patrick, but we've certainly given it our bestshot and there's lots of fascinating insights into both sort of the live touring,
recording and composition genres.
Some great anecdotes involving people as white as Diana Krall to Bob Dylan to forming atthe White House to Amy Mann, Michael Penn, you name it, we've covered it.
(00:57):
So I think you'll enjoy it a great deal and I'll talk to you at the end of the show.
Patrick, it's an honour and a privilege, sir.
It's so lovely to see you.
Are you keeping warm over there on that chilly Wednesday afternoon?
(01:20):
We have some lovely rain.
makes me very happy is we're in desperate need of air.
Yes, I've heard that.
No, look, pleasure to have you on.
So I thought we'd, we're going to cover quite a bit of ground during this interview, but Ithought we'd start off just even with your 2024.
So I said in the introduction before the show that you're incredibly busy and incrediblyprolific.
(01:42):
So just taking, not even counting your film and TV composition, which we're going tocover, but just in 2024 alone, you've worked with Mike Campbell and the Dirty Knobs, Avril
Lavigne, Andre, Bocelli.
Bruce Springsteen and I've left out about four or five.
Number one, how do you keep up that pace?
And number two, tell us about what the highlights of the past year have been for you.
(02:03):
Okay, well, the pace seems to be easy enough.
What I did was I built a studio in my backyard.
So I no longer have a backyard, but it's just an easy walk with a cup of coffee across thethreshold and then I'm good to go.
And it's nice and it's nice and quiet in here.
So I seem to be able to get a lot done at different hours between naps.
(02:25):
That's so important.
But yeah, it's been a blast working with Mike Campbell.
I just finished another song with him last week.
unbelievably brilliant songwriter.
I had no idea what a great songwriter and lyricist he was.
So that's been an absolute treat.
And we have a big project coming up that I'm not allowed to speak about.
(02:45):
No, that's amazing.
And you raise a good point there, Patrick.
So your backyard studio, so a lot of your work, like most composers, arrangers and so onnow, you're tending to do a lot of remote work.
So you're working on tracks that are sent through rather than being in the studio with awhole bunch of other people.
That seems to be the MO these days and you have to sort of build a trust with the variousproducers.
After a while they get to know you and then they just send you a song and say do yourthing and they don't care what you...
(03:11):
But there's always that initial period if they don't know you like well they'll suggestsome part and it'll not be right so you have to just override it anyway.
Yeah, that's right.
Do you miss the older approach to recording?
More than I can possibly say, all the best things I've ever done have been done in thatformat, mostly with T-Bum Burnett and Joe Henry, who always record as an ensemble live
(03:37):
without click.
And you're always going to get something special during those moments.
Provided you don't drink too much of the wine that's usually...
That's always a good tip.
Regular listeners and viewers of the podcast know that I'm absolutely a Springsteentrezik.
So what involvement did you have on the best of Springsteen album?
(03:59):
I've done a couple of things with Springsteen, not recently, but I worked with BrendanO'Brien many years ago on some Michael Penn records, so that's the connection.
And I just get funny calls out of the blue for him, like, come in here and play piano onthis or Chamberlain on that or bring some weird sounds.
And Brendan is one of those guys that has enough energy to power a city.
have to, the pace, and we do it in the studio with him, but the pace is mind-numbing.
(04:26):
I can imagine, he's a powerhouse.
Now that's wonderful.
I thought, that's, as I said, that was just the last year, but let's just take a bit of astep back.
So what was your musical upbringing, Patrick, as far as a child and teenager that led youto developing a career in music?
Well, like any child or many children, my mother forced me to take piano lessons since theage of six or seven, I can't remember, pretty young age, which I hated.
(04:52):
And I had to practice 30 minutes a day.
So I had a sand timer that she would put on and we would put it up and I would practice myMozart for 10 minutes.
I'd flip it over so the same 10 minutes would go backwards.
So I was really only doing 20 minutes.
But it wasn't until around the age of, I say 13 or 14 when my mother said, right, you'reold enough to make your own decisions, you can quit.
(05:13):
Then I started thinking about whether or not I wanted to actually continue this.
And about the same time I was thinking about that, I was hearing Joe Cocker, Leon Russell,and all these kinds of things.
like, oh my God, I can't play guitar, but I can play piano.
Maybe like any kid, I could be in a rock band.
Then I started to practice more diligently and whatnot.
(05:36):
parts of blank, but eventually as an older person, I ended up at CalArts as a pianoperformance major and also took some composition classes there.
And then very long story short, and then out of CalArts, met Michael Penn, a greatsongwriter, Sean Penn's brother, and that was sort of my first professional gig.
And then sort of snowballed from there.
I was going to ask you about that.
(05:56):
So obviously that was a hugely successful first gig.
mean, Michael Penn had a number of great hits and he certainly resonated even down here inAustralia.
And obviously as part of the research I noted in your acting credits were obviously hismega hit No Myth and you were in the clip.
So you even had your acting appearance there.
And the first thing that jumped out at me, Patrick, is A, you don't look a lot different.
(06:20):
Sure, the hair's a bit grey, but basically you don't.
got what you fit?
Thank you kindly.
And the other thing is what it, I assume it wasn't a chamber when you play, what was theinstrument you were playing in that clip?
was fascinated by what it was.
That is a Chamberlain.
Oh, it Yeah, and we often, because the inside was so strange looking, we often would takethe lid off.
Gotcha.
(06:40):
I had a tension first.
There's a huge, we call it the flywheel, but what it is essentially is a giant capstansideways across many, many rules of tape.
And I tended to use it as a sort of a, how do you call it, a whammy bar?
All you could do is slow it down.
(07:00):
You can't speed it up, but you can.
You could swoop into notes and stuff like this.
I was always messing with that thing.
So we just took the lid off and I used it that way off.
Yeah.
So let's talk about, we might as talk about the Chamberlain now.
So I know it's, I don't think it's fair to just say it's a precursor to the Metaltronbecause there's so much more than that, but tell us about the Chamberlain and your, how
you initially, you know, sort of discovered it and developed a relationship with it whereyou're now considered, you know, sort of one of the subject matter experts on the
(07:28):
instrument.
Well, I had heard of Chamberlain's when I was in high school in the early 70s and I'dalways dreamed of one.
they had Mellotrons at the old guitar centers back then, but Chamberlain I heard was thething.
So when I met, 100 years later, I met Michael Penn, he had one and he had it sort ofenshrined on a shelf like a temple.
(07:53):
And I said, well, let's say it goes to Chamberlain, but we don't play that.
It was too valuable.
Finally, one day, we were working on song, I talked to him into bringing it down.
He and I both realized immediately the connection with his music and me personally withthe instrument.
I'd always dreamed of being able to play orchestral sounds with a keyboard from a veryyoung age.
(08:17):
And here it was.
Samplers hadn't been invented yet.
next thing you know, I'm playing it on all his music.
And then I bought four more.
you could get them back then.
I just had chamberlains all over the damn place.
they just kind of snowballed from there.
I ended up on a...
I can't remember the order of things, but I ended up putting it on a bit of Fiona Applerecord and Amy Mann records and Macy Gray.
(08:43):
And I can't...
I don't remember the order of all the events, but it just kept...
I kept getting calls like, want that sound on my record.
That's amazing.
And how many do you own now Patrick?
I think I'm down to two.
I don't like to take them out anymore.
I don't like to look at them.
I've put them on too many records.
there are many people around that maintain them anymore, Patrick, because can imaginethat's a challenge as far as maintenance.
(09:07):
It is a challenge.
Back in the day, the inventor of the chamberlain, who actually is the inventor of theMelodion, Harry Chamberlain, he invented tape keyboard instruments.
He lived in Upland, California, which is an hour and a half due east of me.
So I would often visit him and he would make me tapes and they were built by his children.
So Richard Chamberlain had a garage with all the parts and we would often work on thoseinstruments.
(09:31):
And I learned a lot about the maintenance on them.
really
contraptions.
The motors are literally from refrigerators and all the parts are like motorcyclebushings.
It's a hodgepodge of parts that somehow works, but they do need to be tweaked andmaintained and they love to be played.
The less you play them, the more upset they get when you start them up again.
(09:54):
Sounds like a refrigerator.
That sounds like a refrigerator Patrick.
The belts go bad and we're always looking for new belts.
But I got really good at maintaining them over the years.
I toured with them for, oh my God, almost 10 years.
I just dragged them around, often two at a time.
So I could leapfrog them from gig to gig and whatnot.
Well, because they'd be quite weighty, wouldn't they?
(10:15):
yeah, I used to know the exact weight.
Heavy enough.
Yeah, exactly.
So obviously working with Michael Penn and I'm also came to a bad 80 man, but what was,what was the next sort of significant gig for you after or in parallel with Michael Penn
that got you really established in the industry?
(10:36):
I think it was probably the first Fianna Apple record, was obviously a very big record.
I believe that's the next big thing that happened.
I remember the correct order of things, but I would say that record.
But I was at some point on tour with Michael, he had met Amy and they had become a couple.
So I ended up playing in a lot of Amy's things and touring with her frequently back in theday.
(10:57):
But that was more like family.
And I'm as much an Amy Mann fan as I'm a Bruce Springsteen fan.
I mean, I'd love to talk a little bit about your work with her.
consider her alongside Michael as well, obviously, but her as one of the greatestsongwriters of the 80s, 90s and three to today.
She's just amazing.
It's prolific.
(11:18):
What sort of adjustments did you have to make as a player to work with her or it was afairly easy relationship from the start?
Not much.
The interesting thing about her, she's obviously one of my favorite songwriters of alltime.
The interesting thing about Amy is that I can go further outside the lines, almost on theborder of absurd sounds, and they don't sound absurd in her songs.
(11:41):
It works so beautifully.
It's the sort of sarcastic strangeness that I don't have the right adjective for what'shappening, but I listen to everything from a melodica to just the craziest.
sound and it absolutely works in her songs and I don't know why.
So it's always an adventure recording.
mean we did Bachelor number two, a record that I really love and we were sort ofchanneling Burt Bachrach records at the time and just putting on strange Burt Bachrach
(12:11):
parts and it was just working so beautifully.
I have no idea why.
Yeah.
I think sarcastic strangeness is the perfect encapsulation of this whole genre.
think that's perfect.
She should release an album called that.
That's amazing.
No, thank you for that, Patrick.
And because you have worked with so many artists and I'm keen to get onto the otheraspects of your career, I'm just going to throw some names at you.
(12:35):
And if anything jumps out as being memorable, and I'm also going to ask you at the end ofthis section, just to tell us about.
artists that are memorable to you if I haven't already called them out.
So Tom Waits, obviously an icon.
Tell us about any involvement there.
That was just one last sort of a dream come true.
I've been an absolute weights fanatic for a very long time.
(12:56):
think the oddly the first record I ever heard was Frank's Wild Years.
to this day, it's is one of my favorite records of all time.
But long story short, he called me, I don't know, sometime.
And he was going on a tour and he wanted to help with a sampler.
He wanted to use a sampler.
And that's why I set him up with some of my sounds.
I said, don't share these.
(13:17):
These are really cool sounds, but they're fine for you.
And him not remembering that called me many years later for the Glitter and Doom tour.
I think the last tour he did in maybe 2008, I want to say.
And I got a call from management saying, Tom Waits, would you be interested?
I said, I pretty much drop anything I'm doing.
And they said, great.
So they talked about an audition.
(13:38):
Tom called me, talked to me on the phone.
We were just sharing stories.
And I knew I still had to audition for him.
He hung up and he called me back three minutes later and just said, the gig's yours.
So.
Whatever I said on the phone seemed to indicate the right thing for him.
So that was an absolute revelation how he works.
Some things he does are so spontaneous and so fast that your head is spinning.
(14:03):
And other times he's so attuned to what he needs.
I need a church bell.
I have 15 church bells.
I'll play them.
No, not that one.
No, not that.
No, not that one.
He'll get the one that he wants and it's just a certain sound that he heard in his headand he'll get after it and I'll find it for him.
(14:26):
that the tour, although it was a short tour, think, if I remember, eight weeks or too muchor something, but it was just, we, because we learned his whole catalog, almost 60 songs
or something like, not his catalog's much larger, but we learned some 60 odd songs and hiswife would shuffle the cards every night and pick out a set list and I would frantically,
I had little.
I couldn't remember every key of every song.
(14:48):
I was going to ask you, so that eight week tour and you mentioned that you toured withMichael Penn as well.
Just how has touring treated you?
So is there something you enjoy doing?
And I know we quite often talk to artists that as you get older, it gets harder too.
There's no doubt about that.
do you, what were the things you'd learnt from touring that you enjoyed and maybe not somuch?
(15:09):
Well touring is that you have one, two hours of this great energy on stage and then forthe next 24 hours you're basically a UPS package just getting shipped somewhere.
You can only read so many books on a bus.
I'm not a big drinker so I have beer like I'm going to bed with my books.
But as you get older especially, because I toured I think all the way up to about 2014,camaraderie becomes really important, almost as important as musicianship.
(15:38):
And so there's not a
person I've toured with that doesn't feel like family at some point unless something wentwrong.
mostly everybody I know when you see them again, even though it's been 10 years, it's justlike you were on the bus yesterday or something.
I do love it.
I do miss it.
But then off of when I'm out, I'm like, God, why did I do this?
(15:58):
Why am I doing this?
Exactly.
No, I'm hearing you.
And another name to throw at you, Patrick, Bonnie Raitt.
Yes, I did a lovely record with her that Joe produced, Joe Henry, and he had for about 10years a beautiful studio in South Pass that was in the basement floor of a historical
landmark house.
(16:19):
was, I think, President Garfield's widow's house or something.
built this, he built this studio and it was an absolutely lovely experience and, you know,frightening also because she has a regular band.
Part of the record was going to be a regular band, but
Here I am playing with her for the first time and she's a monster musician.
But I think what we did came out really beautifully and I'm proud of it.
(16:41):
And Joe's a brilliant producer.
And it was all very, very live.
No, obviously, because it's Joe, no click, no nothing.
Just go for it.
Yeah, that's right.
And maybe it's worth talking a little bit about Joe Henry because you have worked with himquite extensively.
So tell us about that relationship there and as you said, that more live film and yourwork with him.
Just basically like a brother to me.
He's just one of the most wonderful human beings I've ever known.
(17:05):
after much like working with Michael Pan, when you work with somebody for 10 or so years,it becomes very instinctual.
so certain songs I would record or play with him, even though there's no meter or no time,just like to hear the intake and the breath on a note when he got down on the piano.
(17:25):
And he guides the ship beautifully.
encourages me to reach for things that I would normally had not reached for.
And that's always a really good thing when you feel you have that freedom to reach out tosomething special like that.
Yeah, that's great.
And the last name I want to throw you is more of a complete unknown, Bob Dylan.
(17:46):
That was one of those wild calls.
First you get the call, like somebody's going to call you and it's important to pick upthe phone.
Then it's Bob's manager and he says, Bob's making a Christmas record and he wants you tocome in.
says, and he explained you might be there for an hour.
You might be there for a week.
And I totally understood.
I said, I got nothing.
(18:06):
Don't worry if he kicks me out.
If he doesn't vibe with somebody, I'm sure he says, I have nothing.
won't, no upset on it.
I understand.
So I walked into this session.
And he had to spin it.
And the first thing he said was, don't want you to play the sustain pedal at all.
No sustain pedal.
Yes, sir.
And the next question within two seconds is, do you know any way they can sing like theAndrew Sisters?
(18:28):
And without a hesitation, I said, yes, sir, I have them here tomorrow because I'm in L.A.
I can find that.
I didn't even think twice about it.
made two two calls and I had them there the next day.
And these singers, a duo called the Diddy Bops and another
great singer Nicole.
Anyway, they all came in and they just sang their ass off beautifully around a mic.
(18:51):
He's all around one mic and he's blowing smoke in their face with a cigarette and theydon't care because it's freaking Bob Dylan's.
And from there I was in for the rest of the week.
I understood his pacing.
He doesn't linger on anything.
And we had a moment when he wanted somebody to sing with the Leuven brothers so he broughtin some male choirs.
(19:12):
And they were fussing and they were looking at charts and like, you sing the D flat andyou sing the F natural.
And I could see Bob's, he's about to start.
He's about to drop this whole idea.
So I walked over to him.
said, you guys can about 30 seconds to get your shit together.
He's onto the next song.
And immediately they did.
And I just do what I was saying.
(19:33):
So I think I understood how to read him pretty fast.
And he's absolutely brilliant.
And his call like no sustaining pedal was actually a great call for the.
for the record.
And I think that ability to read people, Patrick, it's obvious you have that skill.
And when we move on to the film and TV, I suppose it's being able to read cues as well, asfar as from what you're seeing, being able to read how you translate that musically.
(19:56):
So obviously that's a skill that's paid off.
Yes, I don't know where I got it from,
Just, yeah, just take it, just take it.
And so the last part of this section, I wanted to ask you, Patrick, is there someone thatstood out from the vast amount of people you've worked with in that sort of recording and
live and touring part that has really stood out to you as a highlight, if it's possible topick one.
(20:18):
Oh, that's very, very tough.
think, mean, the Tom Waits tour I did was hands down the best, my favorite tour of alltime touring wise.
No, no question about it.
I was, was, I was stretching my abilities to the max and every song is like you're goingin a different room.
So the whole color palette would change every song and the energy.
(20:42):
He doesn't have a rehearsal mode.
He is full on just belting it like he's on a record.
every moment.
So you're in the front row.
And there was the elements of theater.
had Kathleen was working with directors to create this beautiful set, lighting andeverything.
And the audiences, she went batshit crazy, of course.
(21:03):
that was touring-wise.
Record-wise, it's more like moments, favorite things I've done that I'm proud of.
I wrote a singing arrangement for Lana Del Rey on song called
honeymoon and I was really proud of the way that came out.
That's just one of it.
I did some beautiful work for Common that I'm very, very proud of and things like that,you know, but there's too many to figure out.
(21:30):
I couldn't really figure out a record that was.
Yeah.
And we're going to talk about, I think we'll mention common analysis and stuff in a littlewhile as well.
No, so thank you for that.
That's absolutely brilliant.
And I think it was with Bob, did you do a White House gig?
And the reason I ask is just in the last 24 hours, I've had another guest, Mo Pleasure,who played at the White House for the Obamas.
(21:50):
So just thought it was funny that you've also done a White House gig, I believe.
yeah, that was interesting.
forgot about this.
So after we had done the Christmas record, he was asked by Obama to come play and hewanted, Obama wanted him to do Chimes of Freedom.
So he asked if I could do an arrangement.
So I met him in his little apartment in LA and we went over the song.
(22:12):
The first thing Bob said was, think more people know, times they are changing.
I said, my unborn child knows that song.
So he wanted to do that song.
So Bob played.
on the piano, I brought a little keyboard and I sort of recorded the midi of how he kindof was hearing it.
And from there, I created a very simple waltzy little arrangement that he liked.
(22:34):
then, but I said, you know, if I write this out in the White House band plays that there,if you get lost, they're going to, they're going to plow through, they're not going to
follow you.
So yes, if I wanted to do it like, well, sure.
So off we went and at the, at the White House, doesn't, Bob doesn't do the press meet andgreet stuff.
So we were just.
We didn't really meet anybody.
(22:55):
He just went up there and he played and then we walked down and shaked Obama's hand and itwas over so fast.
But the interesting after thing was he was so delighted with doing it that way that hewanted, he had that idea and said that he wanted to do a record of just piano and him of
the hits.
So we had a few weekends where we got together and went through songs and I thought tomyself, this is maybe the worst idea ever or maybe a good idea.
(23:19):
I might go down as just the worst person in history if this record comes out.
But fortunately, you went on to other things.
just don't, I don't know that anybody needs to hear piano versions of...
So it'll be sitting in that vast Dylan archive.
It'll see the light of day one day.
recorded but it was just an interesting thought that he had.
(23:41):
That's funny.
I appreciate it too.
I definitely want to cover your amazing film and TV career as an arranger and composer.
I thought we'd start off, Patrick, is what was your first involvement in that side ofmusic?
What was your first gig as an arranger or composer?
My first gig for us are Rangers.
At some point, I don't remember.
(24:03):
Oh, I do remember the record.
I think it was very simple arrangement for a Jacob Dillons version of Heroes.
And I had a Chamberlain part or something I played and they said, could you do it for realstrings?
And I had never done it.
I didn't, it was before they had MIDI.
So I penciled it out as best I could and trying to count the bars.
(24:25):
And it was, so that was my first.
And all I'm doing is just the simplest.
I think we're just echoing the vocals that were there or something.
can't remember.
It's a dumb arrangement.
But from there, I started being asked if I could take chamberlain parts and put them intoreal strings.
And that's sort of how I got started arranging and learned.
(24:46):
There's a million things to know.
You can never know even a tenth of what you need to know about arranging or orchestrationor something like that.
But I always wanted to do film.
did little bits and pieces of it with friends of mine.
It was a very slow climb to getting busy with it.
It didn't happen overnight.
I didn't get any big things overnight.
Mostly the bigger things came from working with T-Bone Burnett and also with Common.
(25:10):
And those are some of the bigger gigs I got.
just at one point, I was thinking I was on tour with Diana Krall and we were doing TrueDetective, the first installment of that show.
I loved it because that
Every night in the hotel was writing and sending it back or every day in the hotel andthen doing the shows at night.
So I was very much not bored on tour because I had so much to do.
(25:34):
I wasn't singing any of the cities or anything, but I was very busy sending stuff back.
And that one, Patrick, so that the first series was the one with McConaughey andHarrelson.
Look, and I, no word of a lie, not realizing you're involved in that.
Some of the music in that, it just totally grabbed me from the get go.
That series is one of my favorite series of all time.
It's just, yeah, the music is amazing.
(25:55):
Thank you.
It was very dark.
Yeah, it's very dark here.
love it.
So I actually haven't watched any of the other seasons.
That's the only one I've watched, I, yeah, I do.
And so just, just before we leave arranging.
So what has changed over the years with arranging as far as the process and I supposescoring and composition is the same as far as it feels like compared to live touring and
(26:17):
recording in a studio that the actual scoring process hasn't changed radically.
Sure.
The software has gotten better if you're using software, but has
Broadly the process pretty much remained the same.
I think so.
mean, the event of software has really changed the game for a person like myself who Idon't hear in my head how a flutent and oboe we're going to mix.
(26:41):
But now I can put it up there and listen and say, maybe I like that better in octaves orsix or just unisons.
because the libraries are pretty good these days, you're going to get a fairly accuraterepresentation of what's about to happen with a live orchestra.
I mean, if they're willing to play for the live orchestra.
So from that point of view, it's been very helpful.
(27:02):
When it comes to larger full orchestra stuff, I usually work with orchestrators becausethe time limit is crunch.
And some of them are very more like copyists, like just tick tick tick.
But some of them have offer ideas.
And I love when that happens too.
Like, you thought about doing this or doing that?
But the software really has been a game changer for a...
(27:24):
doing that kind of thing because I wouldn't know that, you know, that really, that, yeah,I know it now, but like a bassoon gets louder as it goes down, where clarinet gets quieter
as it goes down, vice versa, as they both go up.
You need to know these things as you're writing.
You know, they're all important things to know.
(27:45):
Does the software tend to guide that a little bit?
Now, obviously the software knows the general ranges of orchestral instruments and so on.
Does it tend to know some of those idiosyncrasies of the instruments?
Now, has it evolved to that stage where you need to manually factor that in?
Well, because they're all chromatic recordings of real instruments, you'll hear it rightaway.
You'll hear that this, wow, this bassoon gets kind of fat and honky down there and it getsvery beautiful up there, but it's not very loud.
(28:09):
Well, that's going to be accurate.
That's going to be accurate to your, you could turn it up, but you can't turn it up in theorchestra.
It is the volume it works at.
And also with strings or I mean, there's, took some more orchestration and rangingclasses.
There's some basics that you should know, but even those things are, all those rules aremeant to be broken.
start out knowing the basics and then from there, stretch it.
(28:32):
And it sounds like some of your key outputs in composition and arranging have beencollaboration.
So you've mentioned common, mentioned T-Bone, Burnett.
What is the approach at the start of a project?
let's use Alison, I assume that's what you're talking about when you work with common.
Tell us about how that collaboration worked from the start of the project to completion.
(28:53):
Common is one of my favorite producers of all time.
He just creates an atmosphere of joy and love in the studio like none other that I've everexperienced in my life, which really creates a sort of a willingness on the part of
players to just go for something they wouldn't normally go for.
We'll often have seven players in a room at the same time.
(29:16):
But when it comes to arranging, he just, no notes.
And he would send me these beautiful songs and
Even though part of him might be a rap and part might be melody, I treat the whole thingas just like a standard American songbook kind of thing.
I just think he's such a great lyricist.
And I was free to go way outside the lines.
(29:36):
think on a record, Black America, again, I was just almost in Prokofiev land with some ofmy lines.
And he loved them.
He's just he has really, really beautiful ears and he's very attuned to it.
And
Anything, anytime I get to work with him is just always an absolute thrill.
Yeah, I do need to check out more of his work.
I'm embarrassed to admit Patrick that I was unaware of Common as a musician.
(30:00):
I actually discovered him watching the Apple TV series, Silo, and loved his acting andthen suddenly realized he was a musician.
So I discovered him in reverse, but yeah, love, love what I've heard.
Yeah, the first thing I did with him was with John Legend.
I did the arrangement for the song Glory for the Selma movie and that song won him anOscar with John Legend.
(30:22):
It wasn't a great arrangement, was just a very functional arrangement, but it was theright arrangement for the song.
was Common's idea to throw out the drums and just have the whole theme be driven by anorchestra.
it was a fun challenge and it worked really well.
Beautiful song that they wrote.
And the other thing I want to ask you as a composer and working in film and TV is thatrelationship with obviously the director and the director, know, directors vary in how
(30:47):
strongly they feel about musical cues and the music overall.
Just tell us about how you've evolved managing that relationship with directors where itneeds to be managed.
That's a different kind of a thing that you have to be willing to do as a composer.
And you're going to throw out a lot of your best work, and you have to be willing to justnot even think twice about it.
(31:09):
Because they're going to have a vision, and often they are not exactly sure what it is.
They'll talk more in terms of this character is, we have stakes here.
They're also in love, and they're just realizing it.
But they'll talk about the scene rather than what the music should be.
And then you have to interpret from that.
I need to get some stakes in here, a little bit of romance and mix it together somehow,figure that out.
(31:32):
And sometimes just the most nondescript cue like a scene in a diner where two people aretalking is extremely important to the director.
And I'll do eight completely different versions of the same cue willingly like that's yourjob and we'll find it together.
And other times it's just I it the first time and that's, and then of course everydirector varies.
(31:54):
Some directors are new, they've been given a show, they're not exactly sure what they'reallowed to do and not do, or what the show is even about sometimes.
Some showrunners don't know, like, what am I doing here?
And others, other times the showrunner is also the writer and the director, and so theyknow exactly where the ship is going.
And it's a process I absolutely love, like throwing out stuff and chasing after stuff,because inevitably we'll get something better, even though it's hard as fuck all, but
(32:22):
that's all.
Excuse my f-
No, that's okay.
No, I think that's a fascinating insight.
For those of us that don't work in film composition or TV composition, nowadays, and Iunderstand it's probably changed a little bit over the years, but nowadays, how much of
the scenes are you getting?
Are you getting pretty much the whole show now to score to, or are still only gettingsnippets and having to work from there?
(32:43):
You get the whole show is an episode.
Mostly I do, mostly I work on series TV.
So the episodes come out every week or maybe the other week and you get a locked cut,meaning what you think it means, it's not to be changed.
Then you get locked cut two, locked cut three, locked cut 3.5.
(33:05):
And that's a disaster because you will have written the fight scene that's got all thesehits and beats and.
everything's perfect and you've timed it out and you've got the orchestration and thetempo map is done and they cut out like a second and like the whole thing just like wait.
What's driving that Patrick?
I assume it's not just your work.
What's driving the changes to the lock cut?
(33:25):
What other factors are, you know, what other parts of the production are causing that?
Sometimes it's latent notes from the network saying, make this shorter, make this longer,or cut this out.
Sometimes it's just a director saying, looking at it, saying, I need to make this a littlebit better, or something like that.
I'm never sure quite what the motivations are, but they're there and they cut it.
(33:47):
But generally, what you hope for is a locked cut, and it'll usually have temp music in it.
Not always, but most of the time.
there's always the spotting session where you're basically discussing, you like thisdirection of this temp?
Should it come in sooner or later?
Should we connect these two cues together?
Things like that.
You'll have a discussion.
(34:07):
And it's very important to take meticulous notes because you'll forget it.
Yeah.
And how much lead time do you get paid?
what, as a general rule, I understand it very widely, generally when you received thatfirst lock cut to when you've submitted the final product, for a, for a network or a
series streaming TV show, how much time do you usually have per episode?
(34:28):
say like if the thing is on schedule you'd have three maybe four days to write the episodeoutside.
the case of a show where I have an orchestra that I need to get parts to that can even bedown to two and a half days of just frantic writing and then because I got to get it to
the copyist and they have to print it and all this and get sessions scheduled and that canbe really nerve-racking.
(34:55):
So what's a normal day in those three or four days?
How many hours are we talking in day?
And what's a, there probably isn't a normal day, but what's your approach on one of thosebusy days?
Just to, I do my best work in the morning.
So my approach is to start, you know, nine or 10 o'clock and work till, you know, one orso.
(35:16):
But if I hit a wall, I've learned the best thing to do is just take a nap or step away.
Because you can struggle with the cue for two hours, or you can just rest your brain andcome back and it'll be written in five minutes.
It'll all occur to you.
And that's taken me a long time to learn that.
Because it's scary when you're like, I have to have this tomorrow.
Just take a...
take a beat, it'll come to you.
(35:40):
The first two or three notes are always the hardest notes.
Like what is this scene?
Is it a cello?
Is it a drum?
Is it a percussion?
Is it just an eerie pad?
What is this?
I don't know.
I'll have a template of 50 or 60 sounds and I'll try them all just to see if anythingconnects me emotionally with what I'm seeing on the screen.
(36:01):
I tend to write with the dialogue up very loud and the sound up very loud.
I consider that part of the arrangement.
What makes sense.
And what software do you use Patrick for?
What was your go-to software when you're doing this?
Okay.
Yeah.
the only one I've ever learned.
I love logic.
Big logic fan here.
No, that's great.
(36:22):
have you ever had, I mean, I understand in TV and film that the director is the directorand they are the boss, but have you ever had any fundamental disagreements?
I assume you always as a composer need to step back and accept the director's decision,but have you ever had any, without naming names, any serious creative differences in that
sort of-
for sure.
Common was an executive producer on a show called The Shy, which was about coming of agein Chicago.
(36:45):
I did the first three seasons and the initial showrunner, a lovely guy, said something oddto me.
He said, I don't like percussion.
Okay.
And I didn't know what that meant.
And then I'm like, this is like my first big job where I'm all by myself.
I'm not with anybody else on this.
So I hear a lot of percussion in this series.
so I have, but he said, he kind of jelted, he but I can be convinced.
(37:07):
And I just started writing what I heard and it
It seemed to go very well, there was a lot of they bumped on anytime I would put emotionalcontent like a note or a major seventh or they'd be like, whoa, whoa, with the notes, Mr.
Sierwinski there, like just the pad, just the, so that was that.
(37:28):
And then on the third season, the actual person who created the show, Waithe, stepped inand said, I hear piano, jazz,
jazz piano and trumpet.
And that's what I'd heard from day one.
And I was like, yes, they thought I would be upset.
Like, no, no, I've been, I've been, this is what I've been hearing on the show forever.
(37:48):
So from there it became very easy.
And then somebody took over after that Wyclef, think.
But that was a season three for me was a really fun season.
I got together with the jazz trumpet player.
We just had an absolute blast writing stuff for it.
And just broadly, again, for those that don't work in the industry, and I'm not surewhether it's changed over the years, I'm assuming it's a, I'm not sure what the right
(38:12):
terminology is, like you're hired to do the work, the rights revert to, assume, thecreator of the show and that you're essentially paid to do the creation or do you retain
any rights?
I have no idea what this answer is, sorry.
Most of the time you don't retain any rights.
mean, you have the 50 % of the writing world, but they own all the music.
(38:34):
If you're a big time composer and they want you, you could probably work out a thing like,you don't have any money up front, but I'll take the publishing and that kind of thing.
But I'm definitely not that guy.
No, no, no, that's good.
you.
Any particular sessions that have stood out to you, as I said, has been particularlymemorable or other directors or musicians you would love to work with in the sort of TV
(39:01):
genre that you, that are on your bucket list.
There's so many TV shows now that are, there's just too many.
It's more like show orientated.
I don't even know who's writing, who's the directors are anymore.
There's too many to follow.
mean, they're really famous ones.
They already have their own.
Yeah, they're going to be reaching for the top A-list composers, but there's genres of TVthat I absolutely love.
(39:28):
I I love sci-fi and I love dark sort of dramas and stuff like that, which always,
I think my orchestrator said, God, Patrick, this is some of the darkest fucking music I'veever heard.
You're the sweetest guy.
Like, I don't understand what's happening.
I do like writing that kind of stuff, but I'm happy to write for comedies too or anything.
(39:51):
So, and I mean, I've been really pleased in recent months, sort of TV composition comingout in social media a lot more.
And one of the drivers that is obviously that amazing TV show, Severance and the composeron Severance.
Now it's incredibly, well, I don't, shouldn't say it's incredibly simple.
It's probably not, but just, it's a beautiful piece of writing for that show.
(40:12):
it's, it's, it's shining the spotlight a lot on, people like yourself and the amazing workthey do, which I'm just really thrilled to see.
Yeah, that's the music on that show is super beautiful.
I forget the composer.
I started that series.
I got somewhere in the middle of it and then I got went somewhere else on another series.
Yeah.
Highly recommend season two.
(40:33):
It's amazing.
Yeah.
no, thank you for that.
And, across all of this, we've obviously talked about the Chamberlain a lot, but both inthe TV work and, and also the recording work, are there keyboards over the years that
you've grown to love aside from the Chamberlain or even what you're currently using now?
Well, I obviously love any kind of word that sir, I have too many of them.
(40:55):
For some reason, I wanted a red top word is served, even though I have a black top word, Ibrought one home and my wife said, so this one sounds different.
And I said, no.
She says, I said, this one's red.
And she said, but it sounds different, right?
And I said, no, she just couldn't just
You're amongst friends here, Patrick.
We all get that.
So I love things like that when I can drag them out in B3s and real instruments, whichit's not very often you can take those out anymore unless you're on a very big tour.
(41:23):
So I generally just rely on my laptop and I have a massive collection of sounds I've madeover the last 30 years.
I have yet to find a keyboard that I love to trigger them.
Right now I'm using, what am I using?
I'm using a strange cheap little Roland RD-88.
Only because I love the
The action matches most of the piano sounds for whatever reason.
(41:47):
And I've never used any sound inside of it, but it works as a trigger for me.
It's lightweight and carry it to small shows and whatnot, know, ship it ahead of time.
It'd be remiss of me to ask, given all the work you do and understand some of its secretsauce we won't go into, but are there string and piano libraries that you use that, know,
(42:09):
staples of what you do, even if you are tweaking the sounds?
For sure.
mean, I lately have been relying heavily for whatever reason, I'm not sure on Spitfirestuff, but I tend to get into it very deeply and I tend to write MIDI controllers for all
the different things it can do.
For just simple arranging, often they have a chamber ensemble, then they upgraded it andit was worse, so I just use the original one.
(42:35):
And I use their solo strings sometimes for quartet arranging.
I used to use LA scoring strings a lot.
think that's actually a...
That's the actual sound on Honeymoon, the Lana Del Rey arrangement.
We had the budget to use a real orchestra, but she liked the sound of what I did withthe...
But I mainly leaned for film scoring and whatnot on that thing.
(42:57):
And then some of the Berlin stuff for whatever, percussion and harps and timpani and stufflike that.
Yeah.
Amazing.
No, thank you.
And we have some standard questions, Patrick.
And one of them is where something's gone spectacularly wrong.
So whether it's on the road or in the studio, wherever you'd like it to be, where it'sbeen an absolute train wreck, but you can look back and hopefully laugh about it.
(43:20):
I think I have two of those that I remember.
Right.
Great.
One was with weights where I was so tired.
I don't remember what happened.
I was exhausted and I got on stage and I have all the cards and we got set list and I'm upthere and there's two songs that have big piano intros.
I think if I remember it quite easily, maybe Falling Down and something about come up tothe house or something.
(43:45):
And one is a waltz and one is not.
And I think it was
I think it was come up to the house, which is in four, and I just started it as a waltz.
Started it and nobody came in and I turned around and the waiters looking at me andeverybody's looking at me and I'm like, started again as a waltz.
(44:05):
everybody's just looking at me and then they just started it as a waltz.
wow.
And I immediately realized, my God.
And so that was the longest three minutes of my life.
Tom Trine sink falling down.
Falling down.
You asked me what happened, I just said battle fatigue.
That's amazing, I've never had one like that before, that's great, love it.
(44:27):
I'll never forget that.
think once with Amy Mann, the Chamberlain has to have shore power.
It can't be plugged into it because it runs at 60 hertz.
So even a little off, like a big generator, you're going to get different notes, same as aB3.
And so they had promised me that I was plugged into shore power.
then big little fair, it's just Amy, myself and one other musician and song starts and itjust turns around.
(44:55):
from 6,000 people says, normally he's a good player.
I'm not sure what's happening.
I said, power.
They got it together about five minutes delay.
That's funny.
Good one.
Thank you, Patrick.
Another one we ask people is to tag a keyboard player.
is there someone else you've run across in your career that you think you've thought, gee,I'd like to find out more about their life story in music.
(45:22):
gosh.
I know that I tend to gravitate towards individual performances of things, know, like froma young age, the first time I heard Stay With Me, know, Ian McGloggan, just that sound
I've been, that way he made a world's first sound, I'm chasing to this day, I cannotfigure out how he made it sound so brilliant and is playing on so many records, just
(45:45):
lovely Rick Wakeman, things like that.
But I've been all over the map in my life, one minute I'm...
When I was kid, I'm like Tony Banks and next minute it's Chick Corea.
I don't really know.
Now I'm just absolutely fascinated by any jazz players.
After having tour with Dan O'Crawl, my mind is kind of blown how brilliant they are, know,even people in my neighborhood.
(46:09):
Yeah, there's so much talent out there.
Agree.
And then we have the dreaded Desert Island Discs question, Patrick.
So if you have to pick five albums, what would they be?
I'm going to go with Hockey Dory was a really important record to me growing up.
It was on vinyl.
I wore it down to the nub several times.
I've become obsessed with a record lately that has discovered, which is Nancy and Lee.
(46:31):
It's Lee Hazlewood and Nancy Sinatra did this record, I guess in the 60s.
I'm not sure the date.
think Billy Strange is the arranger and I had sort of psychedelic cowboy and I've justbecome obsessed.
with this record.
Like the arranging on it is every time I listen to it, I hear something new.
The arranging is just haunting.
(46:52):
And that's one that I wouldn't mind hearing.
I think I would probably pick something like Beethoven's Ninth, like the Leonard Bernsteinversion, just to have one of those Frank's wild years, probably just because it meant so
much to me.
And then maybe just, I'm not picturing myself really stuck on a desert island, maybefreewheeling Bob Dylan or something like that.
Seems like a thing I'd want to hear as I'm dying.
(47:16):
I can honestly say after 140 episodes, Patrick, you've picked five originals.
No one else has picked any of those five.
So there you go.
Interesting.
Okay.
Yeah.
So no, thank you.
And then to round out, have what's called our quick fire 10.
So 10 short questions with 10, hopefully short answers.
So first album, you recall hearing that made an impact on you.
(47:39):
It would be like from a three-year-old, mean like Daniel Boone was a man.
yeah?
Whatever kids.
Actually I would say the one that had the most impact would be Harry Belafonte because mydad was playing it all the time along with mariachi music and that definitely got in my
DNA.
Yeah, classic.
Yeah, no, absolutely.
Before a gig, what do you like to do to feel settled?
(48:01):
So what's your most important pre-gig ritual?
Not to drink for me.
I'll have a glass of wine after, if I even have a sip of wine or something, it's not thatI can't play.
I'm going to hit the wrong patch and a flute's going to come out where a tuba should or atuba's going to come out.
I'm going to do something stupid every time.
So I don't drink.
(48:23):
So cool.
If you hadn't been a musician what do think your career choice would have been?
was a medical tech for seven, eight years and I enjoyed that.
I knew that the odds of making a living in music were rough so I had my own company doingmedical work which I enjoyed.
I did brainwave tests, mobile around hundreds of hospitals.
Mobile diagnostics.
(48:44):
No, that's amazing.
Favorite tour you've ever done?
So yeah, that's yeah.
Favorite gig you've ever done, if that's possible.
I can't think of a specific...
I would, I mean, I guess just recently I wrote three arrangements for a Guatemalan singer,Gabby Moreno, dear friend of mine, performed by the National Symphony Orchestra three or
(49:13):
four years ago under Ben Folds, is a consultant.
And he does this thing called Declassified where he brings in artists and arrangers, putsthem together and then...
presents it with a full orchestra and then you also get to then the audience also hearsclassical music.
So that was a really seeing my arrangement, which I was very proud of song called TillAwakening Light and hearing her watching her sing it with her mother there was very proud.
(49:39):
It was really a moment.
that is, yeah that is a moment.
That's amazing.
Do you have a favourite city that you've played in?
Yes, too.
It's a cross between New Orleans and Seattle, strangely, my two favorite cities.
I tell you why.
No, that's fine.
Name a song that you used to love, but through either recording or touring, you've playedit to death now and you probably happily never play it again.
(50:01):
I don't think I have any song that I...
I'm sure there's probably one, but I'm not thinking of enough to top it right here.
There's some that are like, sure.
It'd probably be a song that I didn't love in the first place.
That's right.
Exactly.
Do you have a favourite music documentary or movie, Patrick, that you've enjoyed over theyears?
(50:21):
I've seen some and now I'm drawing a blank on that question.
Favorite documentary music?
Final tap usually rates up there.
Well, that is can't beat that really mighty wind or any anything in that genre.
So I mean, I tend to not love documentaries about documentaries, but not not recreationsof, like.
(50:46):
Like Rocketman or Bohemian Rhapsody.
Yeah, that kind of stuff.
I tend to just shy away from those.
I agree.
Name one thing you'd like to see invented that'd make your life as a keyboard player orcomposer easier.
Somebody please invent a good controller.
There's just nothing.
That's that much, just a simple great weighted controller.
(51:07):
I don't need any stupid sounds in it.
It just needs to be quality.
Then nobody seems to want to do that.
And then last but not least your favourite non-musical activity or hobby so what keeps yousane outside of music?
I a lot of hiking in the mountains.
I just got back from Bellingham where I spent a couple days hiking up all over thebeautiful, that really tends to refresh my brain.
(51:30):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think it's safe to say Patrick, you've, you, you climb mountains to get out ofmusic, but you've climbed some massive mountains as a musician, composer and arranger too.
And it's been an honor talking with you even just on a little bit of that.
It's hard to emphasize how much broader your career is than what we've chatted on, but Isuper appreciate what we have covered.
(51:50):
I appreciate being invited.
Thank you so very kindly.
And there we have it.
I hope you enjoyed that interview with Patrick.
What a lovely guy.
And wow, some of those experiences, you're you're unforgettable.
(52:12):
So no, hugely appreciate Patrick's time.
I certainly learned a lot and I hope you did as well, particularly for those of us thatdon't have the luck or, well, in Patrick's case, skill to work in those sort of arranging
and composition areas.
It's just fascinating to get a bit of an insight into all of that as well.
So now thank you to Patrick and thank you to all of you out there for listening and
(52:33):
Definitely thank you to our gold and silver supporters as well.
So Dave Bryce and the team at themusicplayer.com forums, we hugely appreciate yoursupport.
The lovely Tammy Katcher at Tammy's Musical Stew, a long time support as well.
Thank you, Tammy.
Mr.
Dewey Evans from the sunny land of Wales.
Thank you, sir, for your ongoing support.
And last but not least, Mr.
(52:53):
Mike Wilcox from Midnight Mastering.
If you're actually creating your own stuff and what a great mixer and masterer, then.
Mike is the guy, so midnightmastering.com.
Thank you all again for listening.
We're always keen to hear from you.
Do drop us a line on editor at keyboardchronicles.com.
We're on all the socials and yeah, always lovely to hear from you.
(53:16):
So thank you again and until next time, keep on playing.
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