September 7, 2025
Toby Chapman continues to be the go-to player for a range of artists, and as you’ll hear in both parts of this interview, the number of collaborations is impressive. We were lucky to nail down Toby for a chat, and in this first instalment we cover off his time with Crispian St Peters, Patricia Kaas,...
The post Toby Chapman, Spandau Ballet / Tom Jones / Belinda Carlisle (Part 1) appeared first on The Keyboard Chronicles.
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(00:00):
It was just unbelievable off the charts.
Literally the first three, four songs, I didn't have a clue.
I didn't have a clue.
I was relying on what my fingers were telling me I was playing.
(00:22):
Hello and welcome to the Keyboard Chronicles podcast.
For Keyboard Players, I'm your host, David Holloway, and I'm thrilled as always to be herewith you.
Welcome to part one of a two-part interview with the amazing Toby Chapman.
um Toby has had an incredibly diverse career across many decades and many artists fromBelinda Carlisle, ABC, Spandau Ballet, Ildivo.
(00:47):
It's hard to listen more.
We don't actually get to go.
through all of them, but we cover a hell of a lot of ground in our interview with Toby.
So I do hope you enjoy this first part and I'll talk to you again at the start of parttwo.
(01:10):
Toby, it's an honour and a privilege to have you on the show, sir, and particularly withyou being based in the UK, it's always wonderful to have a UK guest that's looking
positively summary and even overheated.
I love it.
I just wish we had more of this wonderful weather.
Yes, it doesn't happen very often.
no, can't thank you enough.
(01:31):
It's really great to have you on the show.
so I thought, speaking of summary, whether recently you've just come off to with PaulHeaton.
I thought we kick off just talking about that amazing band you're involved with.
So tell us about the most recent tour and how that went.
I suppose the most recent tour, I mean they don't tend to be like massive tours as inthose you know classic sort of two-year things or anything like that but the end of last
(02:00):
year we just did an arena tour up and down the UK.
I've only actually ever worked with him in the UK and well apart from Ireland but thenthis year there's been a sort of smattering of stuff you know what I mean.
This is just uh a Nord Stage 3 and then the top keyboard is a Korg Nautilus.
(02:28):
It was originally, I was using, what were the other ones?
Kronos, that's right.
And so yeah, for some reason, well Korg very nicely or very kindly let me have one oftheir Nautilus keyboards, which is great because I just need a few little...
It's basically on the Nord, it's basically piano but layered with things and then I splitit for certain little sounds.
(02:58):
It's very simple which, much like myself I think.
I think it's just a breath of fresh air to be honest with you.
You can have a play, it's like a proper band.
Everybody plays, there's no track.
There's room to maneuver.
(03:19):
It's all very relaxed, which, you know, I've been doing this a long time, like 40 yearsplus.
And it's quite refreshing actually not to go out there panicking about is this gonna work?
Is that gonna work?
Is that computer gonna kick off at the right time?
You know what I mean?
I just really enjoy it and there's such a great bunch of people and Paul's fantastic.
(03:40):
Yeah, so that's it.
Really simple approach really.
No, great.
Wonderful.
And we're definitely going to go back and talk about some of the panicking days, but I'mactually going to go back a decade or five, Toby, to your childhood and teenage years.
What was Toby Chapman's musical upbringing?
What got you into music in the first place?
Well, I suppose we always had, you know, the classic sort of upright piano in the roomthat wasn't used, that was freezing in the winter because we never had, you know, any
(04:10):
central heating.
And I just, my mum used to play, she was very much, as I say, the back end of the Beatlesreally.
But the main, I think one of my main sort of influences was Elton for sure.
And that...
then gave me the sort of interest to want to play, sing.
(04:34):
I'd always sung a bit.
I've always been a singer.
I've never been a great singer, but I understand it and it's always, it's another tool inyour toolbox.
You know what I mean?
So yeah, started from that and Freddie Mercury, a massive influence for me.
(04:54):
I can remember the being on
the landing in my house at my parents house.
And I remember hearing that record come on, you know, just over seven minutes.
And I remember just, I stood there just, I couldn't move because I'd never heard anythinglike it.
And because of my love of vocal harmony, I was just mesmerized by it because, you youstill, you listen to that record now, it's, that's pretty damn, you know, difficult to
(05:22):
make a record like that now with all, you know, with all the technology we've got.
It's still, you know, a bit of a feat.
So that very much, it was Freddie and Elton really, and I suppose because they operatedfrom keyboards.
Yeah, that's sort of how it started.
Then the usual thing got involved in the school music department.
(05:44):
I was definitely then I started doing a few piano lessons again.
I couldn't remember.
I couldn't really, I wasn't interested in the classical approach.
And the fact that I'd learned to play Bohemian Rhapsody just from listening to the record,I realized, well, what was more interesting to me was the fact that one of the girls in
(06:07):
the year above me, who I thought was absolutely stunning, came and sat next to me and Ithought, hang on, there's something in this.
I can see how this works.
I'm carrying on down this route because this looks like it's working out.
So...
Yeah, then I suppose, yeah, I mean, of course at school, actually, I would say in themusic department where I was, they were, was in a comprehensive school.
(06:35):
They were quite open to sort of nurturing you as a musician, not necessarily reading thehistory of music or a classical approach and reading.
Although I learned to read a little bit, you know, I never, if anybody ever asked me,which is very rare, do you read?
I just say no, call the next
person because I mean actually just moving forward while I've just thought of this Iremember getting a call in the mid 90s saying can you come and do this session in London
(07:05):
and I said oh yeah what sort of thing is it they said it's sort of jazzy and I kind of allI kind of sort of tighten up a little bit I said I'm not a jazz player you know I you know
and all the rest of it I don't read I can follow a chart and all that so you wouldn't knowit's it's
more so Steely Dan-esque and I said well yeah obviously big fan of them and yeah no I cando that.
(07:32):
So anyway I get on the train and go down into London and the train slightly delayed and ona rare occasion I'm actually late I walk in and everybody's sitting there in the recording
room you know like there's a brass section the drummer's got his sticks in the air readyto do the downbeat and I went
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No panic here then.
And I walked down to the piano and there was a load of what I call tadpoles, you know.
I'm just reading music and I said, hey, look, you know, this is really embarrassing infront of everybody.
I just said, look, just get another guy.
Cause I said, I don't read music.
And uh it's, you know, I just can't read it on the spot.
(08:16):
I might be able to give given a few hours, but we haven't got the time for that.
Cause I think it was a jingle or whatever.
Um, so they said, well, we've got to do it.
So I said, well, give me a minute.
And it was, it wasn't anything to do with Steady Dan.
It was like a boogie woogie type thing, which is a fairly dexterous thing to do anyway.
(08:38):
But I got the hang of it and I started doing it.
And then it was quite complicated in the right hand.
And so I was playing the cell was not quite right, but I quite like what you're doing.
Cause I said, what?
You're the composer, why don't you play?
He said, no, I'm not a good enough player.
So in the end, I was playing it.
I put the left hand down first, overdubbed the right hand.
(09:00):
I mean, how unprofessional is this?
But then it turned around that the rest of the band started changing their parts to what Iwas doing.
And so it worked out in my favor in the end, because they preferred what I was doing.
So there you go.
So whizzing back to where you want to talk about, I realized that there...
I had something there in just using my ears, you know what I mean?
(09:24):
So kind of that was really the answer.
Yeah.
Look, I think that's an amazing anecdote.
And because we are a podcast that goes out to keyboard players, I guarantee you that, andI'm one of them, Toby, that is in the similar boat to you, that is immensely um encouraged
by that as far as it's not just about the reading and yet look, reading is a great skill,but it's about the feel and you've obviously got that in spades.
(09:50):
So no, thank you for that.
And so what, what was the sort of, um
transition from uh school through to you deciding to make this actually a uh job or acareer.
Well, the classic thing I joined a covers band.
Well, actually this band I joined was, he was an English singer from the 60s calledCrispin St.
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Peter's.
The song was called I'm the Pied Piper.
yeah, mean, some people will know anyway.
I mean, you know, it's one of those classic things.
was late seventies by then.
He'd send a sort of experience the best part of his career, the classic.
thing, you know, he was drinking too much and we just, it got down to doing, I mean, hewas a lovely guy and he had an amazing, amazing voice, singing voice, but it was the
(10:42):
working men's clubs is what we did.
And, but once again, it was one of those things where I was thrown in and said, want apiano player, a country style piano player.
And I was obviously keen to do it and I'd done nothing else.
So I did it.
And he said, there won't be any rehearsals.
And I said, well, I've to have an idea.
(11:03):
said, just tinkle along, you'll be fine.
And it's amazing.
His repertoire must've been a hundred songs.
mean, but there was favorites that always came out.
we're talking 60s, 50s country music, know.
So some of the big names, you know.
Yeah, so that I think was very much a part of me learning how to pick up songs.
(11:25):
And you get to hear the changes very much as you would probably.
hear the same thing.
You know when it's Bb, Eb, F and then the relative minor, you can hear those shapes.
After time it's like anything else, you can hear it coming, that's what it is, I know whatthat is.
that, you know, of course once I did that for a couple of years then I joined another likea pub band who used to do things like the Eagles.
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So it's an extension of my country upbringing.
But then we did things like
yeah Steely Dan, Rock and Roll, well Rock stuff at the time, I can't remember the namesright now, but of course that opened it all up, stuff got more complex, so I was learning
more and I was doing a little bit of work on my right hand with getting some scales andstuff.
(12:15):
I mean that's another thing that's never been my forte, is soloing.
I'm so much a song player and uh a piano teacher, once again I'm shifting forwardprobably.
20 years.
I had a piano teacher for a very short time in the early 90s, who I was currently workingwith quite a big French artist called Patricia Cass and she was massive all over the world
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and obviously specifically in Paris, know, in Paris absolutely massive, all over France,America, Russia, everywhere.
She'd come from, a lot of her players had been jazz players, you know.
And so I was like the MD of it.
(13:04):
So we had half an English band and half a French band.
Well, the other guy on the keyboards, a guy by the name of Gilles Earhart, who was anamazing, amazing player.
And of course a lot of this stuff was, you know, I'd say, look, need, can you just playthe album?
What wasn't jazzy, was, she was, her trying to go a bit pop.
(13:25):
Hence why I suppose I was brought into it.
And he was playing these chords that were too complicated.
And I says, you know, all we need is the chord of A, the chord of D, and the chord of E,triads.
And it was played all in that first inversion, whatever you, you know, with the root notesat the bottom.
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I said, that's all that's needed.
And sometimes you've got to know when that's what it is and that's what's needed.
then, you know, he was...
Yeah, I mean, I think we ended up not so much falling out, but I think she realized hewasn't quite right for it.
But going back to the teacher, I thought, you know what?
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I watched a lot from him and he did some amazing solos and stuff like that.
And you know that sort of outside stuff in jazz, you know, when they just move completelyoff it.
And I went to a teacher and I said, can you sort of show me how this
how we get there and how we arrive at all of that.
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So we went through it a bit and I sort of understood it and he said, I can see it's notyour natural thing to do all of that.
And he said, I'll tell you what, I think today should be your last lesson because he saysyou've done really well doing what you do.
know, I've seen your CV, you're really good at hearing parts in a band and doing whatyou're playing for the song.
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And I suggest that you should concentrate on that.
That's what you're good at.
You're never going to be a grade eight jazzer unless you practice eight hours a day.
And I thought, well, yeah, that ain't going to happen.
Do know what I mean?
It's fair to say, you know, based on those experiences, you are a song player within aband.
how, mean, Crispian St.
(15:14):
Peter's is no, as you said, no slouch on their own.
But what led to sort of your next break as far as, okay, I've got some momentum here.
I'm playing regularly.
Was it Spandau or something between those two?
No, he was between that actually because I was working with this pub band and we weredoing functions and pubs and all the usual stuff, but they were great players, taught me
(15:38):
an awful lot, know, massive amount really without knowing they did it really.
And the guitarist in the band, Jeff Martin, who was an amazing, well still is an amazingsinger, songwriter, guitarist, he had a friend of his.
Dennis Monday who worked at Polydor Records and at that time he was A &R'ing The Jam withPaul Weller and we weren't quite sure about The Jam because that was kind of post-punk
(16:08):
where everything was turned on its head you know and of course I was still there listeningto Gino Vanelli and you know sort of things like Steady Dan and all of that and he, Dennis
always hated all of that you know.
But I started listening to it and I thought, obviously, know, well, this has got merit.
And one of those things, I've always felt that I've always embraced whatever's comingalong, even though I do now, at least two or three times a morning when I get in the
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studio, I put on Apple Music and I listen to new music, because I just want to hear what'sgoing on, um hear how the records are sounding, because I tend to do more of music
programming.
I mean, I've just...
co-produced two albums for Gary Kemp, which I mixed as well.
(16:59):
So I'm very much in that world.
I want to keep current, but I don't want to just like jump on the bandwagon now.
This is what everything's sounding like.
You've got to keep it true to what you want it to be, but keep an eye on all that.
Do you know what I mean?
So back to the thing with Paul Weller, he said the jam had then broken up and Paul Weller
(17:20):
had started a new band under the name of the Stile Council with him and an organ player,piano player Mick Talbot and they'd obviously had quite a bit of success, mainly UK and UK
I think based, Japan too.
(17:42):
Yeah, huge success in Australia.
Yeah, oh absolutely.
Yeah, and we never went there.
So he was going out to do some dates in Europe and he had his own record label calledRespond Records and he had an artist by the name of Tracy, her full name was Tracy Young.
(18:04):
She was going out and they needed, they had a band but they said that we need anotherkeyboard player and he said I'll put your name up for it, you're up for doing it.
I said
hey, you know what I mean?
That is the archetypal first break.
So I thought, great, I'll go and do it.
I did a very small audition.
And to be honest with you, it was a gig that one keyboard player could have covered.
(18:27):
But hey, you know, I wasn't going to argue with that.
So yeah, all I had was a DX7, had a Prophet 1, was it the monophonic one?
And to me, this was great because somebody was setting up my gear.
That was one of the most amazing things and walking off stage, grabbing a beer whilesomebody else packs up the gear, do know what I mean?
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And that is something to this day I never get over, you know what I mean?
I never will, I never get nonchalant about, you know what I mean?
It's those great little touches.
So yeah, went out and did that and actually one of the trips to that was to Japan.
So we did, it was like,
(19:13):
One of those things, what do they call them?
Where they have several bands on, it's like a, I can't think of the right word.
They used to do it, they did it like a review.
It was like a review thing.
There was In Excess, you know, they weren't that big then.
A couple of other bands.
Yeah, so we went to Japan, which was an amazing experience, obviously.
Once again, it was that getting there.
(19:36):
And I don't know if you've been to Japan or worked there, but the fans can be slightly...
over the top.
And I just remember me and a good friend of mine who was a bass player, Kevin Minner, wewent up, we got into the hotel and we were going up the escalator to our rooms and there
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was literally hundreds of girls chasing you up, just chasing you out of the hotel.
I remember me and Kev just went, I fucking love this, don't you?
So anyway, digressing slightly there but
Yeah, when I did that, and then whilst we were doing some shows back in the UK, thelighting designer came up to me and said, Spanner Ballet, they're auditioning for a new
(20:24):
keyboard player because the other guy is moving on to something else.
And would you like an audition?
So said, once again, of course I would, you know.
We're trying to compact this a little bit.
We went, I went on the day and there was 30 people going, can you believe?
Wow.
No pressure.
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So we went to Gnomis, which was a very popular rehearsal studio in the day um in Shepard'sBush.
So I went in there and I thought, this is the place where it all happens, you know?
so I went down to the studio and I'd already seen, because we used to rehearse in thatstudio, so I'd already seen this band I set up, which was, I think about nine keyboards,
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you know what I mean?
It was ridiculous.
Well, in those days, you didn't have keyboards that could split.
You know, it's like a guitarist.
If you want a Strat sound, you want an SG, you want, you know, a Telecaster, you have theinstrument, which is what they had.
So I walked in, there was a CP-70 piano.
On top of that was a Prophet T8.
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On top of that was a DX7.
To my right was a Rhodes Chroma at the bottom, uh a memory move next up, then a Prophet 5.
I guess, maybe it was six cables in.
Yeah, whatever.
It was a lot.
We'd had a cassette tape of three or four songs with the record on one side and the partsbeing played on the other side.
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apparently the bloke said, you okay to come and do this?
I said, yeah, no, great.
He said, only the last three people that have come in have looked at the keyboard setupand just walked straight out.
They were just intimidated by the amount of keyboards.
And I I share their pain.
to, you know, in a certain aspect.
But so anyway, the first song that I had to do to play this guy who was the keyboardplayer that was leaving was a song only when you leave and it's got this...
(22:23):
And you had all these little parts playing here.
I'd learnt them the other way around because I didn't know that...
I thought this bit was over here and that bit was over there.
So I went, oh shit, that part's there.
He said, yeah, and that...
forgive me a minute, I've learned it the other way around.
(22:44):
He said, I don't know, take your time.
And he said, I should have maybe mentioned that, you know.
So anyway, I duly went through and thought I was doing all right.
And I think that was to test the dexterity of using both hands because it was actuallyplaying chords on the left hand, which I hadn't done masses of them out.
In those days, you'd pound the old octaves and all the fancy stuff was on the right handside.
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But in those days, because you had no track and they didn't want to two players.
There was no need for two players, you know what I mean?
So you were making the most of all parts.
when there was an exposed piano part, obviously you played that.
But then where that would probably carry on on the record, I would then move to a moreprominent sound, you know.
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So to ask you a question really, that's where it all started.
And I did that day's rehearsal and he said, I'm gonna recommend that you go and do a fewdays with the band.
So thought, this sounds promising, you know.
mean, Spanning the Ballet,
What year was this Toby?
What year was the audition?
was 84, I always remember it was 84 because it was such a massive year for me because theamazing thing I always tell people it was like, one minute I'm playing at the Dartford
(24:02):
Social Club and then eight months later I'm playing Wembley Arena.
It's amazing that the ah step up.
Well it's not the step up but it's the change, you know what I mean?
I value every gig as a gig, you know what I mean?
But obviously yeah, that's an amazing experience to have.
(24:25):
So yeah, it was 84 and then I did, I remember I did about four days of Span now and GaryKemp who was the sort of the main songwriter and you know, he, I would say he was the main
man behind it all but because he wrote the songs he had definite ideas for it all and
I remember saying to him, look, Gary, I really need to know that I'm doing this becauseI'm supposed to be going to New York with Tracy Young with the Stale Council.
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I've told him about this since and he said, I can't believe I must have been 25 years oldthen.
He said to me, do you like a drink?
And I said, well, yeah, I'm kind of partial to a few beers, you know, in those days,that's what I like drinking.
And he said, you got the job.
So I remember that was, it was a mate.
I tell David, five years I spent with that lot was amazing.
(25:19):
The amount of things I learned in life, playing gigs, and it just helps.
It helps sculpture as a person and as a personality.
it brought stuff out with me, I suppose, that I'd kept a bit guarded in personality wiseand learned to let myself go a little bit more.
(25:40):
And my God, did those boys let himself go, you know.
Yeah.
Well, was, you know, it was the era for letting yourself go.
And, um, yeah.
so let's talk about, mean, you've mentioned about what you learned and I'd love to go intothat.
Do you remember those first couple of gigs actually with Spandau, uh, what they were like?
(26:00):
We are definitely going to cover Live Aid, but just as far as those first few gigs, youremember where they were in and, know, what it was like for you, um, you know, those first
couple.
I remember very clearly, as I suppose you would, because I'd not long come back with PaulWeller in that lot from Japan.
And then when we started the tour, which is in the autumn of 84, all of this with PaulWeller and everything, it all happened from the summer.
(26:31):
So that end of the year was a very transformational sort year for me.
And yes, of course, where was the first...
bunch of shows for three weeks was in Japan.
So I thought, oh my God, I'm going to Japan again, you know.
And of course it was a slightly different experience.
mean, what one was we were going first class.
(26:56):
They'd booked out, there was eight seats in the, what we used to call the pointy bit ofthe plane.
So because we get on this plane, hot-footing it to Japan, and I remember thinking, this isout of this world.
And I remember Steve Norman, who was the sax player.
I mean, there was, there was guys and, you know, waiters and all that coming downwhenever, you know, carving beef off a joint.
(27:18):
was whatever you could want to eat.
mean, obviously copious amounts of alcohol, which, you know, let me tell you, Spandau,they were at that, they were at Olympic stand, you know, Olympic standard of drinking.
And I remember saying to Steve, I said, well, what's that?
That's caviar, isn't it?
And he said, oh, yeah.
I said, can I try a bit?
And he said,
don't fuck off, get your own.
(27:38):
And I went, yeah, I suppose I can just order it myself.
You know what I mean?
So that was amazing to start with, you know, I don't know, we stopped, I think you stoppedoff in those days.
think it might have been Alaska.
And of course just got looked after like Royals almost, you know.
I mean, you gotta remember these guys were at the top of their game, you know.
(27:59):
So yeah, we went over there and my first show was in Tokyo.
They were quite early shows, which they tend to be in Japan even to this day.
think that's 6.30, something like that.
Or sometimes you do two shows a night.
I mean, Zoom is straightforward.
I've been there with Belinda Carlile on and off over the last five years.
(28:21):
And we always do that.
There's a thing called the Billboard shows and you do, I think you do a 7.30 and a 9.30.
It's great.
I love it.
But yeah, going back to doing it with them, it was just amazing.
And one of the first things I remember, David, because we're all using monitors, no inears in those days, is the sheer volume of screaming was, it was just unbelievable off the
(28:47):
charts.
Literally the first three, four songs, I didn't have a clue.
I didn't have a clue.
I was relying on what my fingers were telling me I was playing.
It wouldn't matter the fuck anyway really because you would never been able to hear it.
But no, it was amazing, absolutely amazing.
then, yeah, I mean that started the whole career of with Spandau really and there'sseveral years of that kind of.
(29:16):
Provided really.
And as you said, you had, I think you said approximately five years.
Yes, I would say that so is that 84?
Yeah, I mean it was I think 80, 89 I think it, it sort of come to the end.
Yeah, as some of these things do, you know, people move on to other stuff.
I think the last album they did Heart Like a Sky, which I was quite involved with, Isuppose, because we'd got into programming and all of that.
(29:48):
And of course it was the thing that everybody was doing and Gary.
really loved it.
remember about 87, 88, he said, look, I want to go to this place where they've gotFairlights.
And, you know, which for those of you, the uninitiated, is the beginning of digitaltechnology and making records really.
(30:13):
So we looked at these things, you know, and at that time they were like 35,000 pounds,which in today's money must be at least 70, 80.
I remember thinking, my God, know, I I mean, Gary was prepared to buy one of these.
But I said to him, look, it's great.
And I could have easily gone, you know what?
(30:33):
Yeah, go and get it just for my own, you know, for my own use and to learn it.
But I'd spoke to other people and I knew there was another thing around the corner, whichwere basically the Echai samplers, Cubase on
Um, Atari's well, I started on Macs very, excuse me.
(30:57):
I started on a Macs quite early on.
those Mac SE's and all of that, and we were running, I can't remember what we were, Ithink it might've been Cubase.
Um, so I thought that was a better way to go.
And it also meant, cause you could, they started then making the, keyboards without thekeyboard.
So they were those rack mounted things.
So of course I duly have one of those two or three great big stacks of all that.
(31:21):
nonsense going on, you know, because if you needed another sound, you had to buy anothermodule at the cost of in today's money would have been three grand.
You know, I mean, it was colossal the amount of money that people I mean, you got toremember in the early 70s, uh offender roads was 3000 pounds in the late 70s.
So people are complaining now that when they've got these brand, you know, in these newroads that have come out, they're absolutely amazing.
(31:46):
They're going for nine grand.
They're actually going for what they cost in the day, but it's obviously
in today's money, you know.
Yeah, so it did.
And I suppose, especially the last album with them, or the last one that they did in the80s, I sort of, because I was involved in all the programming of it, and which didn't
(32:10):
particularly involve the band, which I think, you know, didn't, I don't think went aroundsort of down that well, particularly, but I think for Gary, was,
the route he wanted to take.
And especially as I think he realized that I wasn't just a keyboard player.
had a great idea of vocals and harmonies and just make, I knew I was interested in makingrecords, know.
(32:38):
So that was sort of that period, know.
And obviously, yeah, live
That's amazing.
Sitting on the outside, Toby, you're a member of a very, very special club.
And we've had the absolute privilege of having two other members of that club, which iskeyboard players that, you know, stood on that Live Aid stage in 1985.
So we've had the privilege of having Thomas Dolby and Andy Bowne both on the show.
(33:02):
So Andy Bowne literally opened Live Aid for status quo.
Yeah.
Like he literally opened, he played the first, and Thomas Dolby was obviously with DavidBowie.
Yeah, well, there you go.
I'm, fascinated on two perspectives.
Obviously the set that you played with Spandau and we'll be linking to it in the shownotes.
I've watched the video many, many times, just your perspective on your sets and yourrecollections of that, but also your recollections of the day more broadly.
(33:29):
Yeah, I mean, it was obviously a big day.
The one thing when a lot of people asked me this and I sort of say, it probably wasn't atthe heights of what people sort of hold, you know, let me rephrase that.
It wasn't thought to be, obviously it couldn't be legendary because it needs to be in thepast to be legendary, but people hold it up there so high that it's an amazing legendary
(33:56):
performance, which it was.
from the point of view of the cause of it and also the fact that it had all, you know, itactually had the prime of 80s talent at that time on that stage.
And it was amazing.
Yeah, it's only in recent years, I suppose because it had so much impact on Queen'spopularity as well, because as I'm sure a lot of people have seen the film of Queen, mean,
(34:25):
I think they went...
I wouldn't use the word slump, I think maybe they were just dipping and they neededsomething to springboard back into the eighties because seventies had been their time, you
know.
And so I think, you know, like it said in the film, they didn't want to do it or thoughtthey didn't want to do it.
But then last minute they did, which is obviously one of the best things they could havedone and made the show for everybody.
(34:49):
But my recollection of it is going up the day before and you're if you look deep enough onYouTube, there is.
a clip of Stasis Quo doing, I can't remember, I think it was Don't Waste My Time.
I was a massive Quo fan.
That was the other thing, I got into guitars fairly early and although I'm not really aguitar player, but I understand guitars, I can play it a bit.
(35:15):
And they were the ones that got me into it.
I could play a 12 bar, pretty good, you know.
And as that little boy going, standing on the side of the stage while they were soundchecking the day before.
with me, Gary and Martin Kemp.
You could see us with air guitars, you know, going along with it.
This is the sound check, so it was amazing.
(35:36):
I remember you just sitting there, I'm just going, you know, where I just can't believewhat's going on here, you know.
And I saw also somebody the other day talking about the grin, the Chapman grin.
Yeah, I can remember there's also another bit of video that's gone out which I think BobGeldof circulated.
It's a 10 minute back.
uh
(35:56):
behind the scenes thing.
And I was just looking at it out of interest because I don't remember much of the back.
Now I've seen some of this thing, the backstage scene.
I've never really have great recollection of it, but I was probably pissed.
don't know.
I think we all were a little bit amongst other things.
(36:16):
And I just remember there's a bit where I'm standing right next to Elton and Gary's thereand I don't know who else there might be.
I don't know, but it was just me sitting there and I'm just going I can't fucking believethis.
I'm standing next to Martin John, you know.
And then Freddie was only over there and because we did I mean after that time we spent alot of time with Queen because we went to record the Through the Barricades album.
(36:45):
So movie or maybe actually would have been the following year because Through theBarricades was recorded at the end of 84.
85 was Live Aid.
So it was before that, was it?
No, no, it was after that.
It was after that.
So the rest of AC5 was doing through the barricades and we recorded it in a place calledMusicland in Munich, Germany.
(37:08):
And it was a place that Freddie had recorded his first solo album and it had come highlyrecommended from that camp.
I mean, odd as it may seem, I use the word loosely, but we did sort of hang out with thema bit.
You know what mean?
I remember there was a time when Roger Taylor was over and they were over for some reasonand Brian May.
(37:34):
And yeah, we went out to dinner and all that a couple of times.
it was all to me, was all just like, can't believe this is happening.
Do you know what I mean?
And anybody listening to this who knows me, they're gonna go, I know what's come in thisstory.
And it was in 1988 when we...
It was the changing of the Olympic flag in Barcelona.
(37:58):
And there was a big show on, and Freddie was in that period of working with MontserratCaballe and that song called Barcelona.
And we were on that show as well.
So we did our, whatever we'd have done, 30 minutes, 45 minutes, wherever it was.
So then we went on, stood by the side of stage and then Freddie went on.
(38:21):
He was all limbering up and then she went on with him and they sang that song, maybe twosongs.
But we saw he was really angry.
He kept looking at the side of the stage.
Because in those days, everything's run off tape.
The tape was running slightly fast.
And obviously it's not only running faster, it's probably taking it up by a half step.
(38:42):
So instead of singing it for argument's sake in F, it's now in F sharp.
Well, anything Freddie sang, not exactly down in his boots, was it?
So I remember he came off and he was going what the fuck went on he said heads will rollheads will roll You know, we turned around and we were just fucking laughing ahead off,
you know Anyway fast forwarding to the evening the evening side Freddy so darlings youmust you must come back to the hotel I've got the whole of the top of the the fuck-off
(39:10):
hotel, whatever it was in Barcelona so we all went back and it was quite an early start Ithink and we went up and
I remember going up the lift, you know, with security blokes, talking to their sleeves andall of that.
And then we walked in and then there was this massive suite where Freddie was.
As I say, was early.
(39:31):
It was early doors, yeah.
The welcoming thing was, um, Cristal Champagne, which, anybody, that's not cheapchampagne.
And what I can remember is what looked like a goldfish bowl full of cocaine.
And so your, your sort of entry into Freddie's world was a glass of champagne and a littlebit of cocaine, which at that point I'd never tried.
(40:00):
I thought, well, you know, maybe this is the time.
Yeah.
Not saying that I wouldn't, I wouldn't recommend that for anybody to do, but you know, Iwent in there and Freddie was sitting on his own and there was just a couple of people.
had his MD, Mike Moran, who was a big MD figure at the time.
He was there.
There was very few people.
(40:21):
And Freddie was just sitting there.
So I just sat next to him and I said, look, Freddie, you're not aware of this, you were somonumental on my interest in vocal harmony and all that classic, although I'm not
classically trained, I love all that classic structure that you use.
just all that sort of thirds in the bass going to the minors.
(40:44):
It was all something I really kind of liked.
I suppose coming out of the prog era a bit maybe.
And we sat and he said, oh darling, sit down, get yourself another glass of champagne andI'll tell you all about it.
So I spent an hour talking to him and cause there was nobody else there, we just chattedforever.
And it was mind blown to me.
(41:05):
And even though I said it, rather than him saying, no, I've got to go.
said, Freddie, there's people coming in now.
You go and do your thing.
But I said, thank you so much.
I will treasure this for the rest of my life.
Thank you so much.
So yeah, that was an amazing, amazing story.
Yeah, that's a masterclass.
yeah, look, I've been awed Toby, that's an amazing story.
And thank you so much for sharing it.
(41:27):
just while we're staying in Spandau territory, I know you got to Australia, I think it wastouring, was it 85 also with the Praying album?
Unless I've misread.
It was, it was, I can tell you when it was, was something like April, May of 85.
So I think it would have been just before we came back to do Live Aid.
(41:49):
That was an amazing tour.
I mean, God, stuff going on.
I mean, I remember we saw George Michael, yeah, obviously a wham, before he went andAndrew Ridgely, and they said, you won't believe when you go there.
Is it Paul Dainty?
(42:09):
Yes
Yep.
Yeah, yeah, They said, he puts on a spread for you, trust me.
And so of course, we all got on the plane and went over there and yeah, all treatedamazingly as usual, you know, and we stayed at then the Seabull townhouse in is it Kings
Cross?
Seymour townhouse.
Yep.
Yeah, legendary place.
(42:30):
I think it's long since gone, apparently.
yeah, I mean, just, yeah, I mean, I think as soon as we got there, if not the first day,the day after that, he took us out on, if you look at the Spandau, there's a Spandau
documentary called Boys of the Western World.
(42:51):
And there's clips there of us all on a yacht, just cruising around Sydney Harbour.
you know, just a massive spread of food, drinks, you know, it was all, you know,ridiculous off the charts, you know.
And I can remember, there's actually almost a shot of me, I used to do a pub version ofTrue and you know, da da da da da da da da, oi, ha ha ha, ha ha, you know, there's just
(43:24):
something stupid that I did from a pub days, you
And yeah, it was an amazing time and my God, after shows, I Paul used to, he had a wholeroom full of like 60 Australian models and we'd go and socialize with them every night.
(43:45):
I mean, it was just unbelievable, absolutely unbelievable times.
Yeah, really good.
It was just unbelievable off the charts.
Literally the first three, four songs, I didn't have a clue.
I didn't have a clue.
I was relying on what my fingers were telling me I was playing.
(00:22):
Hello and welcome to the Keyboard Chronicles podcast.
For Keyboard Players, I'm your host, David Holloway, and I'm thrilled as always to be herewith you.
Welcome to part one of a two-part interview with the amazing Toby Chapman.
um Toby has had an incredibly diverse career across many decades and many artists fromBelinda Carlisle, ABC, Spandau Ballet, Ildivo.
(00:47):
It's hard to listen more.
We don't actually get to go.
through all of them, but we cover a hell of a lot of ground in our interview with Toby.
So I do hope you enjoy this first part and I'll talk to you again at the start of parttwo.
(01:10):
Toby, it's an honour and a privilege to have you on the show, sir, and particularly withyou being based in the UK, it's always wonderful to have a UK guest that's looking
positively summary and even overheated.
I love it.
I just wish we had more of this wonderful weather.
Yes, it doesn't happen very often.
no, can't thank you enough.
(01:31):
It's really great to have you on the show.
so I thought, speaking of summary, whether recently you've just come off to with PaulHeaton.
I thought we kick off just talking about that amazing band you're involved with.
So tell us about the most recent tour and how that went.
I suppose the most recent tour, I mean they don't tend to be like massive tours as inthose you know classic sort of two-year things or anything like that but the end of last
(02:00):
year we just did an arena tour up and down the UK.
I've only actually ever worked with him in the UK and well apart from Ireland but thenthis year there's been a sort of smattering of stuff you know what I mean.
This is just uh a Nord Stage 3 and then the top keyboard is a Korg Nautilus.
(02:28):
It was originally, I was using, what were the other ones?
Kronos, that's right.
And so yeah, for some reason, well Korg very nicely or very kindly let me have one oftheir Nautilus keyboards, which is great because I just need a few little...
It's basically on the Nord, it's basically piano but layered with things and then I splitit for certain little sounds.
(02:58):
It's very simple which, much like myself I think.
I think it's just a breath of fresh air to be honest with you.
You can have a play, it's like a proper band.
Everybody plays, there's no track.
There's room to maneuver.
(03:19):
It's all very relaxed, which, you know, I've been doing this a long time, like 40 yearsplus.
And it's quite refreshing actually not to go out there panicking about is this gonna work?
Is that gonna work?
Is that computer gonna kick off at the right time?
You know what I mean?
I just really enjoy it and there's such a great bunch of people and Paul's fantastic.
(03:40):
Yeah, so that's it.
Really simple approach really.
No, great.
Wonderful.
And we're definitely going to go back and talk about some of the panicking days, but I'mactually going to go back a decade or five, Toby, to your childhood and teenage years.
What was Toby Chapman's musical upbringing?
What got you into music in the first place?
Well, I suppose we always had, you know, the classic sort of upright piano in the roomthat wasn't used, that was freezing in the winter because we never had, you know, any
(04:10):
central heating.
And I just, my mum used to play, she was very much, as I say, the back end of the Beatlesreally.
But the main, I think one of my main sort of influences was Elton for sure.
And that...
then gave me the sort of interest to want to play, sing.
(04:34):
I'd always sung a bit.
I've always been a singer.
I've never been a great singer, but I understand it and it's always, it's another tool inyour toolbox.
You know what I mean?
So yeah, started from that and Freddie Mercury, a massive influence for me.
(04:54):
I can remember the being on
the landing in my house at my parents house.
And I remember hearing that record come on, you know, just over seven minutes.
And I remember just, I stood there just, I couldn't move because I'd never heard anythinglike it.
And because of my love of vocal harmony, I was just mesmerized by it because, you youstill, you listen to that record now, it's, that's pretty damn, you know, difficult to
(05:22):
make a record like that now with all, you know, with all the technology we've got.
It's still, you know, a bit of a feat.
So that very much, it was Freddie and Elton really, and I suppose because they operatedfrom keyboards.
Yeah, that's sort of how it started.
Then the usual thing got involved in the school music department.
(05:44):
I was definitely then I started doing a few piano lessons again.
I couldn't remember.
I couldn't really, I wasn't interested in the classical approach.
And the fact that I'd learned to play Bohemian Rhapsody just from listening to the record,I realized, well, what was more interesting to me was the fact that one of the girls in
(06:07):
the year above me, who I thought was absolutely stunning, came and sat next to me and Ithought, hang on, there's something in this.
I can see how this works.
I'm carrying on down this route because this looks like it's working out.
So...
Yeah, then I suppose, yeah, I mean, of course at school, actually, I would say in themusic department where I was, they were, was in a comprehensive school.
(06:35):
They were quite open to sort of nurturing you as a musician, not necessarily reading thehistory of music or a classical approach and reading.
Although I learned to read a little bit, you know, I never, if anybody ever asked me,which is very rare, do you read?
I just say no, call the next
person because I mean actually just moving forward while I've just thought of this Iremember getting a call in the mid 90s saying can you come and do this session in London
(07:05):
and I said oh yeah what sort of thing is it they said it's sort of jazzy and I kind of allI kind of sort of tighten up a little bit I said I'm not a jazz player you know I you know
and all the rest of it I don't read I can follow a chart and all that so you wouldn't knowit's it's
more so Steely Dan-esque and I said well yeah obviously big fan of them and yeah no I cando that.
(07:32):
So anyway I get on the train and go down into London and the train slightly delayed and ona rare occasion I'm actually late I walk in and everybody's sitting there in the recording
room you know like there's a brass section the drummer's got his sticks in the air readyto do the downbeat and I went
(07:52):
No panic here then.
And I walked down to the piano and there was a load of what I call tadpoles, you know.
I'm just reading music and I said, hey, look, you know, this is really embarrassing infront of everybody.
I just said, look, just get another guy.
Cause I said, I don't read music.
And uh it's, you know, I just can't read it on the spot.
(08:16):
I might be able to give given a few hours, but we haven't got the time for that.
Cause I think it was a jingle or whatever.
Um, so they said, well, we've got to do it.
So I said, well, give me a minute.
And it was, it wasn't anything to do with Steady Dan.
It was like a boogie woogie type thing, which is a fairly dexterous thing to do anyway.
(08:38):
But I got the hang of it and I started doing it.
And then it was quite complicated in the right hand.
And so I was playing the cell was not quite right, but I quite like what you're doing.
Cause I said, what?
You're the composer, why don't you play?
He said, no, I'm not a good enough player.
So in the end, I was playing it.
I put the left hand down first, overdubbed the right hand.
(09:00):
I mean, how unprofessional is this?
But then it turned around that the rest of the band started changing their parts to what Iwas doing.
And so it worked out in my favor in the end, because they preferred what I was doing.
So there you go.
So whizzing back to where you want to talk about, I realized that there...
I had something there in just using my ears, you know what I mean?
(09:24):
So kind of that was really the answer.
Yeah.
Look, I think that's an amazing anecdote.
And because we are a podcast that goes out to keyboard players, I guarantee you that, andI'm one of them, Toby, that is in the similar boat to you, that is immensely um encouraged
by that as far as it's not just about the reading and yet look, reading is a great skill,but it's about the feel and you've obviously got that in spades.
(09:50):
So no, thank you for that.
And so what, what was the sort of, um
transition from uh school through to you deciding to make this actually a uh job or acareer.
Well, the classic thing I joined a covers band.
Well, actually this band I joined was, he was an English singer from the 60s calledCrispin St.
(10:12):
Peter's.
The song was called I'm the Pied Piper.
yeah, mean, some people will know anyway.
I mean, you know, it's one of those classic things.
was late seventies by then.
He'd send a sort of experience the best part of his career, the classic.
thing, you know, he was drinking too much and we just, it got down to doing, I mean, hewas a lovely guy and he had an amazing, amazing voice, singing voice, but it was the
(10:42):
working men's clubs is what we did.
And, but once again, it was one of those things where I was thrown in and said, want apiano player, a country style piano player.
And I was obviously keen to do it and I'd done nothing else.
So I did it.
And he said, there won't be any rehearsals.
And I said, well, I've to have an idea.
(11:03):
said, just tinkle along, you'll be fine.
And it's amazing.
His repertoire must've been a hundred songs.
mean, but there was favorites that always came out.
we're talking 60s, 50s country music, know.
So some of the big names, you know.
Yeah, so that I think was very much a part of me learning how to pick up songs.
(11:25):
And you get to hear the changes very much as you would probably.
hear the same thing.
You know when it's Bb, Eb, F and then the relative minor, you can hear those shapes.
After time it's like anything else, you can hear it coming, that's what it is, I know whatthat is.
that, you know, of course once I did that for a couple of years then I joined another likea pub band who used to do things like the Eagles.
(11:51):
So it's an extension of my country upbringing.
But then we did things like
yeah Steely Dan, Rock and Roll, well Rock stuff at the time, I can't remember the namesright now, but of course that opened it all up, stuff got more complex, so I was learning
more and I was doing a little bit of work on my right hand with getting some scales andstuff.
(12:15):
I mean that's another thing that's never been my forte, is soloing.
I'm so much a song player and uh a piano teacher, once again I'm shifting forwardprobably.
20 years.
I had a piano teacher for a very short time in the early 90s, who I was currently workingwith quite a big French artist called Patricia Cass and she was massive all over the world
(12:44):
and obviously specifically in Paris, know, in Paris absolutely massive, all over France,America, Russia, everywhere.
She'd come from, a lot of her players had been jazz players, you know.
And so I was like the MD of it.
(13:04):
So we had half an English band and half a French band.
Well, the other guy on the keyboards, a guy by the name of Gilles Earhart, who was anamazing, amazing player.
And of course a lot of this stuff was, you know, I'd say, look, need, can you just playthe album?
What wasn't jazzy, was, she was, her trying to go a bit pop.
(13:25):
Hence why I suppose I was brought into it.
And he was playing these chords that were too complicated.
And I says, you know, all we need is the chord of A, the chord of D, and the chord of E,triads.
And it was played all in that first inversion, whatever you, you know, with the root notesat the bottom.
(13:46):
I said, that's all that's needed.
And sometimes you've got to know when that's what it is and that's what's needed.
then, you know, he was...
Yeah, I mean, I think we ended up not so much falling out, but I think she realized hewasn't quite right for it.
But going back to the teacher, I thought, you know what?
(14:07):
I watched a lot from him and he did some amazing solos and stuff like that.
And you know that sort of outside stuff in jazz, you know, when they just move completelyoff it.
And I went to a teacher and I said, can you sort of show me how this
how we get there and how we arrive at all of that.
(14:27):
So we went through it a bit and I sort of understood it and he said, I can see it's notyour natural thing to do all of that.
And he said, I'll tell you what, I think today should be your last lesson because he saysyou've done really well doing what you do.
know, I've seen your CV, you're really good at hearing parts in a band and doing whatyou're playing for the song.
(14:53):
And I suggest that you should concentrate on that.
That's what you're good at.
You're never going to be a grade eight jazzer unless you practice eight hours a day.
And I thought, well, yeah, that ain't going to happen.
Do know what I mean?
It's fair to say, you know, based on those experiences, you are a song player within aband.
how, mean, Crispian St.
(15:14):
Peter's is no, as you said, no slouch on their own.
But what led to sort of your next break as far as, okay, I've got some momentum here.
I'm playing regularly.
Was it Spandau or something between those two?
No, he was between that actually because I was working with this pub band and we weredoing functions and pubs and all the usual stuff, but they were great players, taught me
(15:38):
an awful lot, know, massive amount really without knowing they did it really.
And the guitarist in the band, Jeff Martin, who was an amazing, well still is an amazingsinger, songwriter, guitarist, he had a friend of his.
Dennis Monday who worked at Polydor Records and at that time he was A &R'ing The Jam withPaul Weller and we weren't quite sure about The Jam because that was kind of post-punk
(16:08):
where everything was turned on its head you know and of course I was still there listeningto Gino Vanelli and you know sort of things like Steady Dan and all of that and he, Dennis
always hated all of that you know.
But I started listening to it and I thought, obviously, know, well, this has got merit.
And one of those things, I've always felt that I've always embraced whatever's comingalong, even though I do now, at least two or three times a morning when I get in the
(16:36):
studio, I put on Apple Music and I listen to new music, because I just want to hear what'sgoing on, um hear how the records are sounding, because I tend to do more of music
programming.
I mean, I've just...
co-produced two albums for Gary Kemp, which I mixed as well.
(16:59):
So I'm very much in that world.
I want to keep current, but I don't want to just like jump on the bandwagon now.
This is what everything's sounding like.
You've got to keep it true to what you want it to be, but keep an eye on all that.
Do you know what I mean?
So back to the thing with Paul Weller, he said the jam had then broken up and Paul Weller
(17:20):
had started a new band under the name of the Stile Council with him and an organ player,piano player Mick Talbot and they'd obviously had quite a bit of success, mainly UK and UK
I think based, Japan too.
(17:42):
Yeah, huge success in Australia.
Yeah, oh absolutely.
Yeah, and we never went there.
So he was going out to do some dates in Europe and he had his own record label calledRespond Records and he had an artist by the name of Tracy, her full name was Tracy Young.
(18:04):
She was going out and they needed, they had a band but they said that we need anotherkeyboard player and he said I'll put your name up for it, you're up for doing it.
I said
hey, you know what I mean?
That is the archetypal first break.
So I thought, great, I'll go and do it.
I did a very small audition.
And to be honest with you, it was a gig that one keyboard player could have covered.
(18:27):
But hey, you know, I wasn't going to argue with that.
So yeah, all I had was a DX7, had a Prophet 1, was it the monophonic one?
And to me, this was great because somebody was setting up my gear.
That was one of the most amazing things and walking off stage, grabbing a beer whilesomebody else packs up the gear, do know what I mean?
(18:52):
And that is something to this day I never get over, you know what I mean?
I never will, I never get nonchalant about, you know what I mean?
It's those great little touches.
So yeah, went out and did that and actually one of the trips to that was to Japan.
So we did, it was like,
(19:13):
One of those things, what do they call them?
Where they have several bands on, it's like a, I can't think of the right word.
They used to do it, they did it like a review.
It was like a review thing.
There was In Excess, you know, they weren't that big then.
A couple of other bands.
Yeah, so we went to Japan, which was an amazing experience, obviously.
Once again, it was that getting there.
(19:36):
And I don't know if you've been to Japan or worked there, but the fans can be slightly...
over the top.
And I just remember me and a good friend of mine who was a bass player, Kevin Minner, wewent up, we got into the hotel and we were going up the escalator to our rooms and there
(19:56):
was literally hundreds of girls chasing you up, just chasing you out of the hotel.
I remember me and Kev just went, I fucking love this, don't you?
So anyway, digressing slightly there but
Yeah, when I did that, and then whilst we were doing some shows back in the UK, thelighting designer came up to me and said, Spanner Ballet, they're auditioning for a new
(20:24):
keyboard player because the other guy is moving on to something else.
And would you like an audition?
So said, once again, of course I would, you know.
We're trying to compact this a little bit.
We went, I went on the day and there was 30 people going, can you believe?
Wow.
No pressure.
(20:45):
So we went to Gnomis, which was a very popular rehearsal studio in the day um in Shepard'sBush.
So I went in there and I thought, this is the place where it all happens, you know?
so I went down to the studio and I'd already seen, because we used to rehearse in thatstudio, so I'd already seen this band I set up, which was, I think about nine keyboards,
(21:07):
you know what I mean?
It was ridiculous.
Well, in those days, you didn't have keyboards that could split.
You know, it's like a guitarist.
If you want a Strat sound, you want an SG, you want, you know, a Telecaster, you have theinstrument, which is what they had.
So I walked in, there was a CP-70 piano.
On top of that was a Prophet T8.
(21:28):
On top of that was a DX7.
To my right was a Rhodes Chroma at the bottom, uh a memory move next up, then a Prophet 5.
I guess, maybe it was six cables in.
Yeah, whatever.
It was a lot.
We'd had a cassette tape of three or four songs with the record on one side and the partsbeing played on the other side.
(21:54):
apparently the bloke said, you okay to come and do this?
I said, yeah, no, great.
He said, only the last three people that have come in have looked at the keyboard setupand just walked straight out.
They were just intimidated by the amount of keyboards.
And I I share their pain.
to, you know, in a certain aspect.
But so anyway, the first song that I had to do to play this guy who was the keyboardplayer that was leaving was a song only when you leave and it's got this...
(22:23):
And you had all these little parts playing here.
I'd learnt them the other way around because I didn't know that...
I thought this bit was over here and that bit was over there.
So I went, oh shit, that part's there.
He said, yeah, and that...
forgive me a minute, I've learned it the other way around.
(22:44):
He said, I don't know, take your time.
And he said, I should have maybe mentioned that, you know.
So anyway, I duly went through and thought I was doing all right.
And I think that was to test the dexterity of using both hands because it was actuallyplaying chords on the left hand, which I hadn't done masses of them out.
In those days, you'd pound the old octaves and all the fancy stuff was on the right handside.
(23:07):
But in those days, because you had no track and they didn't want to two players.
There was no need for two players, you know what I mean?
So you were making the most of all parts.
when there was an exposed piano part, obviously you played that.
But then where that would probably carry on on the record, I would then move to a moreprominent sound, you know.
(23:29):
So to ask you a question really, that's where it all started.
And I did that day's rehearsal and he said, I'm gonna recommend that you go and do a fewdays with the band.
So thought, this sounds promising, you know.
mean, Spanning the Ballet,
What year was this Toby?
What year was the audition?
was 84, I always remember it was 84 because it was such a massive year for me because theamazing thing I always tell people it was like, one minute I'm playing at the Dartford
(24:02):
Social Club and then eight months later I'm playing Wembley Arena.
It's amazing that the ah step up.
Well it's not the step up but it's the change, you know what I mean?
I value every gig as a gig, you know what I mean?
But obviously yeah, that's an amazing experience to have.
(24:25):
So yeah, it was 84 and then I did, I remember I did about four days of Span now and GaryKemp who was the sort of the main songwriter and you know, he, I would say he was the main
man behind it all but because he wrote the songs he had definite ideas for it all and
I remember saying to him, look, Gary, I really need to know that I'm doing this becauseI'm supposed to be going to New York with Tracy Young with the Stale Council.
(24:54):
I've told him about this since and he said, I can't believe I must have been 25 years oldthen.
He said to me, do you like a drink?
And I said, well, yeah, I'm kind of partial to a few beers, you know, in those days,that's what I like drinking.
And he said, you got the job.
So I remember that was, it was a mate.
I tell David, five years I spent with that lot was amazing.
(25:19):
The amount of things I learned in life, playing gigs, and it just helps.
It helps sculpture as a person and as a personality.
it brought stuff out with me, I suppose, that I'd kept a bit guarded in personality wiseand learned to let myself go a little bit more.
(25:40):
And my God, did those boys let himself go, you know.
Yeah.
Well, was, you know, it was the era for letting yourself go.
And, um, yeah.
so let's talk about, mean, you've mentioned about what you learned and I'd love to go intothat.
Do you remember those first couple of gigs actually with Spandau, uh, what they were like?
(26:00):
We are definitely going to cover Live Aid, but just as far as those first few gigs, youremember where they were in and, know, what it was like for you, um, you know, those first
couple.
I remember very clearly, as I suppose you would, because I'd not long come back with PaulWeller in that lot from Japan.
And then when we started the tour, which is in the autumn of 84, all of this with PaulWeller and everything, it all happened from the summer.
(26:31):
So that end of the year was a very transformational sort year for me.
And yes, of course, where was the first...
bunch of shows for three weeks was in Japan.
So I thought, oh my God, I'm going to Japan again, you know.
And of course it was a slightly different experience.
mean, what one was we were going first class.
(26:56):
They'd booked out, there was eight seats in the, what we used to call the pointy bit ofthe plane.
So because we get on this plane, hot-footing it to Japan, and I remember thinking, this isout of this world.
And I remember Steve Norman, who was the sax player.
I mean, there was, there was guys and, you know, waiters and all that coming downwhenever, you know, carving beef off a joint.
(27:18):
was whatever you could want to eat.
mean, obviously copious amounts of alcohol, which, you know, let me tell you, Spandau,they were at that, they were at Olympic stand, you know, Olympic standard of drinking.
And I remember saying to Steve, I said, well, what's that?
That's caviar, isn't it?
And he said, oh, yeah.
I said, can I try a bit?
And he said,
don't fuck off, get your own.
(27:38):
And I went, yeah, I suppose I can just order it myself.
You know what I mean?
So that was amazing to start with, you know, I don't know, we stopped, I think you stoppedoff in those days.
think it might have been Alaska.
And of course just got looked after like Royals almost, you know.
I mean, you gotta remember these guys were at the top of their game, you know.
(27:59):
So yeah, we went over there and my first show was in Tokyo.
They were quite early shows, which they tend to be in Japan even to this day.
think that's 6.30, something like that.
Or sometimes you do two shows a night.
I mean, Zoom is straightforward.
I've been there with Belinda Carlile on and off over the last five years.
(28:21):
And we always do that.
There's a thing called the Billboard shows and you do, I think you do a 7.30 and a 9.30.
It's great.
I love it.
But yeah, going back to doing it with them, it was just amazing.
And one of the first things I remember, David, because we're all using monitors, no inears in those days, is the sheer volume of screaming was, it was just unbelievable off the
(28:47):
charts.
Literally the first three, four songs, I didn't have a clue.
I didn't have a clue.
I was relying on what my fingers were telling me I was playing.
It wouldn't matter the fuck anyway really because you would never been able to hear it.
But no, it was amazing, absolutely amazing.
then, yeah, I mean that started the whole career of with Spandau really and there'sseveral years of that kind of.
(29:16):
Provided really.
And as you said, you had, I think you said approximately five years.
Yes, I would say that so is that 84?
Yeah, I mean it was I think 80, 89 I think it, it sort of come to the end.
Yeah, as some of these things do, you know, people move on to other stuff.
I think the last album they did Heart Like a Sky, which I was quite involved with, Isuppose, because we'd got into programming and all of that.
(29:48):
And of course it was the thing that everybody was doing and Gary.
really loved it.
remember about 87, 88, he said, look, I want to go to this place where they've gotFairlights.
And, you know, which for those of you, the uninitiated, is the beginning of digitaltechnology and making records really.
(30:13):
So we looked at these things, you know, and at that time they were like 35,000 pounds,which in today's money must be at least 70, 80.
I remember thinking, my God, know, I I mean, Gary was prepared to buy one of these.
But I said to him, look, it's great.
And I could have easily gone, you know what?
(30:33):
Yeah, go and get it just for my own, you know, for my own use and to learn it.
But I'd spoke to other people and I knew there was another thing around the corner, whichwere basically the Echai samplers, Cubase on
Um, Atari's well, I started on Macs very, excuse me.
(30:57):
I started on a Macs quite early on.
those Mac SE's and all of that, and we were running, I can't remember what we were, Ithink it might've been Cubase.
Um, so I thought that was a better way to go.
And it also meant, cause you could, they started then making the, keyboards without thekeyboard.
So they were those rack mounted things.
So of course I duly have one of those two or three great big stacks of all that.
(31:21):
nonsense going on, you know, because if you needed another sound, you had to buy anothermodule at the cost of in today's money would have been three grand.
You know, I mean, it was colossal the amount of money that people I mean, you got toremember in the early 70s, uh offender roads was 3000 pounds in the late 70s.
So people are complaining now that when they've got these brand, you know, in these newroads that have come out, they're absolutely amazing.
(31:46):
They're going for nine grand.
They're actually going for what they cost in the day, but it's obviously
in today's money, you know.
Yeah, so it did.
And I suppose, especially the last album with them, or the last one that they did in the80s, I sort of, because I was involved in all the programming of it, and which didn't
(32:10):
particularly involve the band, which I think, you know, didn't, I don't think went aroundsort of down that well, particularly, but I think for Gary, was,
the route he wanted to take.
And especially as I think he realized that I wasn't just a keyboard player.
had a great idea of vocals and harmonies and just make, I knew I was interested in makingrecords, know.
(32:38):
So that was sort of that period, know.
And obviously, yeah, live
That's amazing.
Sitting on the outside, Toby, you're a member of a very, very special club.
And we've had the absolute privilege of having two other members of that club, which iskeyboard players that, you know, stood on that Live Aid stage in 1985.
So we've had the privilege of having Thomas Dolby and Andy Bowne both on the show.
(33:02):
So Andy Bowne literally opened Live Aid for status quo.
Yeah.
Like he literally opened, he played the first, and Thomas Dolby was obviously with DavidBowie.
Yeah, well, there you go.
I'm, fascinated on two perspectives.
Obviously the set that you played with Spandau and we'll be linking to it in the shownotes.
I've watched the video many, many times, just your perspective on your sets and yourrecollections of that, but also your recollections of the day more broadly.
(33:29):
Yeah, I mean, it was obviously a big day.
The one thing when a lot of people asked me this and I sort of say, it probably wasn't atthe heights of what people sort of hold, you know, let me rephrase that.
It wasn't thought to be, obviously it couldn't be legendary because it needs to be in thepast to be legendary, but people hold it up there so high that it's an amazing legendary
(33:56):
performance, which it was.
from the point of view of the cause of it and also the fact that it had all, you know, itactually had the prime of 80s talent at that time on that stage.
And it was amazing.
Yeah, it's only in recent years, I suppose because it had so much impact on Queen'spopularity as well, because as I'm sure a lot of people have seen the film of Queen, mean,
(34:25):
I think they went...
I wouldn't use the word slump, I think maybe they were just dipping and they neededsomething to springboard back into the eighties because seventies had been their time, you
know.
And so I think, you know, like it said in the film, they didn't want to do it or thoughtthey didn't want to do it.
But then last minute they did, which is obviously one of the best things they could havedone and made the show for everybody.
(34:49):
But my recollection of it is going up the day before and you're if you look deep enough onYouTube, there is.
a clip of Stasis Quo doing, I can't remember, I think it was Don't Waste My Time.
I was a massive Quo fan.
That was the other thing, I got into guitars fairly early and although I'm not really aguitar player, but I understand guitars, I can play it a bit.
(35:15):
And they were the ones that got me into it.
I could play a 12 bar, pretty good, you know.
And as that little boy going, standing on the side of the stage while they were soundchecking the day before.
with me, Gary and Martin Kemp.
You could see us with air guitars, you know, going along with it.
This is the sound check, so it was amazing.
(35:36):
I remember you just sitting there, I'm just going, you know, where I just can't believewhat's going on here, you know.
And I saw also somebody the other day talking about the grin, the Chapman grin.
Yeah, I can remember there's also another bit of video that's gone out which I think BobGeldof circulated.
It's a 10 minute back.
uh
(35:56):
behind the scenes thing.
And I was just looking at it out of interest because I don't remember much of the back.
Now I've seen some of this thing, the backstage scene.
I've never really have great recollection of it, but I was probably pissed.
don't know.
I think we all were a little bit amongst other things.
(36:16):
And I just remember there's a bit where I'm standing right next to Elton and Gary's thereand I don't know who else there might be.
I don't know, but it was just me sitting there and I'm just going I can't fucking believethis.
I'm standing next to Martin John, you know.
And then Freddie was only over there and because we did I mean after that time we spent alot of time with Queen because we went to record the Through the Barricades album.
(36:45):
So movie or maybe actually would have been the following year because Through theBarricades was recorded at the end of 84.
85 was Live Aid.
So it was before that, was it?
No, no, it was after that.
It was after that.
So the rest of AC5 was doing through the barricades and we recorded it in a place calledMusicland in Munich, Germany.
(37:08):
And it was a place that Freddie had recorded his first solo album and it had come highlyrecommended from that camp.
I mean, odd as it may seem, I use the word loosely, but we did sort of hang out with thema bit.
You know what mean?
I remember there was a time when Roger Taylor was over and they were over for some reasonand Brian May.
(37:34):
And yeah, we went out to dinner and all that a couple of times.
it was all to me, was all just like, can't believe this is happening.
Do you know what I mean?
And anybody listening to this who knows me, they're gonna go, I know what's come in thisstory.
And it was in 1988 when we...
It was the changing of the Olympic flag in Barcelona.
(37:58):
And there was a big show on, and Freddie was in that period of working with MontserratCaballe and that song called Barcelona.
And we were on that show as well.
So we did our, whatever we'd have done, 30 minutes, 45 minutes, wherever it was.
So then we went on, stood by the side of stage and then Freddie went on.
(38:21):
He was all limbering up and then she went on with him and they sang that song, maybe twosongs.
But we saw he was really angry.
He kept looking at the side of the stage.
Because in those days, everything's run off tape.
The tape was running slightly fast.
And obviously it's not only running faster, it's probably taking it up by a half step.
(38:42):
So instead of singing it for argument's sake in F, it's now in F sharp.
Well, anything Freddie sang, not exactly down in his boots, was it?
So I remember he came off and he was going what the fuck went on he said heads will rollheads will roll You know, we turned around and we were just fucking laughing ahead off,
you know Anyway fast forwarding to the evening the evening side Freddy so darlings youmust you must come back to the hotel I've got the whole of the top of the the fuck-off
(39:10):
hotel, whatever it was in Barcelona so we all went back and it was quite an early start Ithink and we went up and
I remember going up the lift, you know, with security blokes, talking to their sleeves andall of that.
And then we walked in and then there was this massive suite where Freddie was.
As I say, was early.
(39:31):
It was early doors, yeah.
The welcoming thing was, um, Cristal Champagne, which, anybody, that's not cheapchampagne.
And what I can remember is what looked like a goldfish bowl full of cocaine.
And so your, your sort of entry into Freddie's world was a glass of champagne and a littlebit of cocaine, which at that point I'd never tried.
(40:00):
I thought, well, you know, maybe this is the time.
Yeah.
Not saying that I wouldn't, I wouldn't recommend that for anybody to do, but you know, Iwent in there and Freddie was sitting on his own and there was just a couple of people.
had his MD, Mike Moran, who was a big MD figure at the time.
He was there.
There was very few people.
(40:21):
And Freddie was just sitting there.
So I just sat next to him and I said, look, Freddie, you're not aware of this, you were somonumental on my interest in vocal harmony and all that classic, although I'm not
classically trained, I love all that classic structure that you use.
just all that sort of thirds in the bass going to the minors.
(40:44):
It was all something I really kind of liked.
I suppose coming out of the prog era a bit maybe.
And we sat and he said, oh darling, sit down, get yourself another glass of champagne andI'll tell you all about it.
So I spent an hour talking to him and cause there was nobody else there, we just chattedforever.
And it was mind blown to me.
(41:05):
And even though I said it, rather than him saying, no, I've got to go.
said, Freddie, there's people coming in now.
You go and do your thing.
But I said, thank you so much.
I will treasure this for the rest of my life.
Thank you so much.
So yeah, that was an amazing, amazing story.
Yeah, that's a masterclass.
yeah, look, I've been awed Toby, that's an amazing story.
And thank you so much for sharing it.
(41:27):
just while we're staying in Spandau territory, I know you got to Australia, I think it wastouring, was it 85 also with the Praying album?
Unless I've misread.
It was, it was, I can tell you when it was, was something like April, May of 85.
So I think it would have been just before we came back to do Live Aid.
(41:49):
That was an amazing tour.
I mean, God, stuff going on.
I mean, I remember we saw George Michael, yeah, obviously a wham, before he went andAndrew Ridgely, and they said, you won't believe when you go there.
Is it Paul Dainty?
(42:09):
Yes
Yep.
Yeah, yeah, They said, he puts on a spread for you, trust me.
And so of course, we all got on the plane and went over there and yeah, all treatedamazingly as usual, you know, and we stayed at then the Seabull townhouse in is it Kings
Cross?
Seymour townhouse.
Yep.
Yeah, legendary place.
(42:30):
I think it's long since gone, apparently.
yeah, I mean, just, yeah, I mean, I think as soon as we got there, if not the first day,the day after that, he took us out on, if you look at the Spandau, there's a Spandau
documentary called Boys of the Western World.
(42:51):
And there's clips there of us all on a yacht, just cruising around Sydney Harbour.
you know, just a massive spread of food, drinks, you know, it was all, you know,ridiculous off the charts, you know.
And I can remember, there's actually almost a shot of me, I used to do a pub version ofTrue and you know, da da da da da da da da, oi, ha ha ha, ha ha, you know, there's just
(43:24):
something stupid that I did from a pub days, you
And yeah, it was an amazing time and my God, after shows, I Paul used to, he had a wholeroom full of like 60 Australian models and we'd go and socialize with them every night.
(43:45):
I mean, it was just unbelievable, absolutely unbelievable times.
Yeah, really good.
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