May 29, 2025 • 32 mins
The national conversation around immigration is often filled with misconceptions, oversimplifications, and dehumanizing rhetoric. But behind the headlines and political talking points are real human beings with profound stories of sacrifice, resilience, and hope.
In this deeply moving conversation, host Mike Rathbun sits down with Rosa Casquino, a Latinx licensed clinical social worker and trauma therapist who specializes in supporting survivors within immigrant communities. As an immigrant herself who came to the US from Peru at age two and lived undocumented until age 18, Rosa brings both professional expertise and personal experience to this crucial discussion.
Rosa powerfully challenges common myths about immigration, explaining that undocumented individuals don't receive free healthcare, housing, or food stamps as many believe. Instead, many pay taxes using Taxpayer Identification Numbers while never receiving the benefits they contribute to. She shares heart-wrenching stories of people who have survived near-death experiences crossing deserts and waters, human trafficking, and extreme violence – all to provide for families they've left behind.
The conversation reveals uncomfortable truths: there is rarely a straightforward path to citizenship for most immigrants despite decades of contribution; immigrants often take essential jobs most Americans won't do; and families make unimaginable sacrifices that continue to affect them emotionally decades later. Rosa's mother still cries about not getting to say goodbye to her own mother 40 years ago.
Perhaps most powerfully, Rosa suggests we change our fundamental question from "why are they coming?" to "what have they survived to get here?" This simple shift acknowledges the humanity at the center of immigration – something too often missing from our national discourse.
Join us for this eye-opening discussion that looks beyond politics to find the human stories that deserve our attention, compassion, and understanding. Share this episode with someone who needs to hear these perspectives, and follow us on social media to continue this important conversation.
Facts about undocumented individuals you may have not heard:
Undocumented workers can pay tax on their wages.
In fact, some estimates place the amount of revenue paid in federal, state and local taxes at $100 Billion.
You may have heard, and believed, that the influx of undocumented immigrants bring crime to a community. That’s verifiably not true.
Empathy and compassion can go a long way towards having a genuine conversation on how to fix our broken immigration systems.
This podcast is a proud member of the Mayday Media Network. If you have an idea for a podcast and need some production assistance or have a podcast and are looking for a supportive network to join, check out maydaymedianetwork.com.
Like what you hear on the podcast? Follow our social media for more uplifting, inspirational and feel-good content.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Well, hello there and welcome.
You are listening to theKindness Matters podcast and I
am your host, Mike Rathbun.
What is this podcast all about?
It's about kindness.
It's a pushback againsteverything negative that we see
in the news and on social mediatoday, and it's a way to
(00:20):
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We're even on LinkedIn underMike Rathbun.
(00:42):
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Check us out and, in themeantime, so sit back, relax,
enjoy and we'll get into theKindness Matters podcast.
Hey, welcome everybody to theshow.
I am so happy that you couldjoin us and I am so grateful
(01:02):
that you deemed this showimportant enough to spend 30
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Thank you so much for that.
Your generosity humbles me.
Remember, if there's anythingin this episode that you hear
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(01:26):
sure to share that with yourfriends, your family, your
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As far as our show today goes.
In the show notes as far as ourshow today goes.
(01:49):
For some time now, the nationalconversation around immigration
has centered around a lot ofvague generalities, right?
Phrases that start with thosepeople or portray nearly anyone
who comes across the border asbreaking law are meant to paint
a negative picture of certainindividuals.
And I don't want to get intothe politics of immigration, I
(02:13):
really don't but I thought itwould be helpful if we could add
some context to theconversation to look at the
people who come to this countryas individuals with different
needs and different desires,instead of as criminals.
Right, and in order to do that,I can think of absolutely
(02:37):
nobody better than my guesttoday, Rosa Casquino.
Rosa Casquino, she's a Latinxlicensed clinical social worker,
trauma therapist and speaker.
She specializes in supportingsurvivors of childhood sexual
abuse, narcissistic abuse andcomplex trauma, with a focus on
(03:00):
the Latinx and immigrantcommunities focus on the Latinx
and immigrant communities.
She also provides psychologicalimmigration evaluations and
offers trainings and educationalworkshop for agencies and
companies on trauma, informedand culturally responsive care.
Welcome to the show, Rosa.
Thanks for coming.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Thanks so much, Mike, for having me on.
I appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Did I mess up any of that?
Speaker 2 (03:25):
No.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
I really thought I was going to stumble over
narcissistic.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
That's great.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Awesome, awesome, awesome.
So, yeah, I mean, I get sotired of just.
I should really stay off socialmedia is what I should really
be doing.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
A lot of us should right.
I call it practicing goodsocial media hygiene at times,
because it's so overwhelming.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Yep, yep, absolutely.
Because when you see, like newsstories, where you know a judge
strikes down one of thepolicies or one of the laws or
one of the, whatever it is, andyou go into the comments in
(04:15):
there and it's always broke thelaw, illegal, blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah, and I, I reallythink, I wish that everybody
could see each of these peoplethat comes in comes here for for
who?
As human beings?
Right, because we lose that.
(04:35):
We lose, yes, we lose thatimage of this isn't an illegal
or this or that.
It's a human being.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Yes, yeah, and that's what I appreciate about this
conversation, mike, is thatwe're working on humanizing the
immigration side of you know theimmigration topic right, the
immigrant story and bringingreally awareness to the
invisible trauma of migration,because that's that's what
happens to a lot of the peoplethat are coming over here.
It is something that is areally difficult decision and
(05:07):
experience for so many.
As I've worked with you knowthe immigrant community for over
10 years and myself being animmigrant.
It is a story, everybody hastheir story and they're not all
joyful and you know, I thinkthere's an image of the yellow
brick road at times, but it isnot the way it is.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
It isn't yeah no, I mean, I, I can't imagine picking
up everything I own and puttingit in a bag and traveling
hundreds, if not thousands ofmiles through some really nasty
(05:50):
areas, just for a shot at abetter life.
And that's really what'shappening here, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Yes, yes it is.
You know.
I came to the US when I was two.
I was born in Peru, my dad camefirst and then, you know, once
he got settled in, my mom came,and she still cries about the
day that she left because shedid not get a chance to say
goodbye to her mother.
That was the last time she eversaw her mom and that was 40
(06:19):
years ago, and to this day shestill cries about it, the fact
that she had to leave her entirefamily and life behind, to come
here and give me, and then mybrother, the opportunities for a
life that wasn't bound to youknow, to the earth at times,
that it wasn't bound to poverty,that wasn't bound to political
(06:41):
unrest.
That could you know that couldoccur, that is occurring right
now in so many differentcountries, and you know so.
I feel like I've owed it to her, and to so many immigrant men
and women, to do the best that Ican and to be able to support
my community.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Is that what inspired you to get into this type of
work?
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Yes, so I mean growing up as an immigrant and
undocumented immigrant, actuallyup until the age of 18.
I didn't.
Yeah, I was undocumented to thatage, so I understand the
struggles and the fears that cancome up for so many of the
individuals today, right?
So, as I mentioned, that wasthe process that that I went
through, and I not only did Igrow up as an immigrant, but I
(07:23):
also grew up in a violenthousehold.
I am a survivor of sexualtrauma, and so all of that at a
young age, when I was a teenager, made me want to get into the
field of psychology.
I wanted to be a childpsychologist to help out kids
that were going through what Iwas going through.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Wow, I can't even imagine.
Wow, I can't even imagine.
So what, what?
And I again I can't, I can'timagine a situation so bad that
would require me to do that.
You've.
You've dealt with a lot.
Are the stories all fairlysimilar?
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Yes, there's stories of extreme poverty.
There's stories of extremeabuse, of extreme loneliness and
isolation.
So many people that I haveworked with that themselves were
(08:23):
the caregivers for theirsiblings at a really young age,
because there was so muchpoverty in their household that
they came over here, they lefttheir young siblings, they left
their family, they left theirhome just to be able to send
money so that people can eat.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Yeah, yeah, that's crazy, so that people can eat.
Yeah, yeah, that's crazy, and Imean I just I keep going back
to this because it just bogglesmy mind that I mean, and really,
when you're immigrating toanother country, you don't know
(09:04):
if you'll even be allowed toenter, but it's worth that trek.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Yes, yes, it is.
That's the thing it's.
So there isn't any hope at homefor so many people.
That's the thing.
The hope is gone and the onlything that is sparking the hope
is that, hopefully, in cominghere, that there is an
opportunity for work.
People don't come hereexpecting free things.
I think that's a hugemisconception that a lot of you
(09:32):
know, as we're talking aboutsocial media, that people are
coming for the free healthcare,for free housing, for free this.
That's a blatant lie,misconception, rhetoric,
propaganda that is being spewedout there.
That is not true at all.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Wow, and yes, thank you for bringing that up,
because I did want to addressthat and I think there are so
many misconceptions out therethat you know people just walk
into this country and they couldget free health care and they
get a house and they get allthis stuff and that's none of
it's true.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
No, absolutely not.
I used to work in a domesticviolence shelter and we were
actually one of the only shelterin LA County that that was able
to bring in people that wereundocumented into the shelter.
Because we because that fundingwasn't federal funding, it was
a different type of funding thatallowed us to do that.
(10:25):
Now, if it had been federalfunding, we wouldn't have been
able to bring in anybody thatwas undocumented and help them
and house them while they wereescaping a very abusive
relationship.
All the other shelters asked fora social security number or
wanted them to be citizens orresidents in order to be able
for them to go into thoseshelters and escape abuse.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
For domestic violence .
Shelter For domestic violence,for domestic violence shelter,
yes, wow, yeah, that's crazy,was it the same for like a
homeless shelter?
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Well, we were home.
Yeah, it was a homelessviolence shelter.
Yes, so it was the same at thattime that was over 10 years ago
.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Yeah, that's, that's crazy, so.
So what does the typicalundocumented immigrant?
Speaker 2 (11:22):
do they get any kind of assistance at all, or do they
just make it on their own?
I guess it depends on the stateright.
Different states have differentbenefits and initiatives and I
know in the state of Californiathere was Medi-Cal that was
being given.
Now that's again because ofwhat's happening with the
current administration.
That's probably going to betaken.
That will be taken away for, Ibelieve, anybody over the age of
19.
So at least kids are being kidswill still, hopefully still be
(11:43):
receiving that, but not adultswho may need it, who have, may
have health conditions thatwould really need their
medication.
So that's that's something thatis really difficult.
I mean I'm blessed to live inthe state of California where we
can continue to support andprovide services through grants
and funding and donations toindividuals that are, that are
struggling, and but no otherthan that.
(12:06):
I mean people do not qualifyunless you have a social
security number.
You do not qualify for Section8 housing, you don't qualify for
food stamps, you don't qualifyfor certain resources.
That is completely untrue, thatpeople are taking taxpayer
money and using those resourceswithout being here with proper
(12:28):
documentation.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
Right, god, that's just.
It's so frustrating, isn't it?
Yes, because I mean, if youwant to have an honest
conversation about immigration,at least let's get the facts
right.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Yes, I mean.
That's why I think it'simportant to have this
conversation.
I appreciate the platform thatyou're creating right now, mike,
because there is such amisconception, and there's a
misconception in a lot of whitespaces, and so I want to be able
to come on to these spaces andbe able to put a face to the
Latinx individual and say thisis what's actually happening and
(13:02):
going on in our community.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Yeah Well, and I appreciate you wanting to have
that conversation too Can yougive us an example of I mean you
don't have to use names oranything like that just a
typical person that well, I meanI suppose you could use your
mom, but or, or you know, justsomebody who's fleeing something
(13:26):
and and what they went throughjust to get here.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Oh, I mean I've heard so many stories personally
within my own community and inthe individuals that I work with
.
I mean people have survivednear-death experiences crossing
over in the desert, people havesurvived near drowning and when
they're crossing over throughwater.
People have survived humantrafficking, rape, being held
(13:54):
prisoners and being sexuallyassaulted, and then traffic for
labor because they were broughtover and they had to pay back
their debt.
These are the atrocities thatpeople are facing, and
particularly women that arecoming over here to be able to
provide for their parents, fortheir siblings, for any young
little kids that they may haveleft behind.
(14:17):
That's what they're goingthrough and they still make it
and they still come.
They still find work and theystill work hard.
They work 40 plus hours to beable to send money home for
their families to survive beable to send money home for
their families to survive.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
And I defy any American citizen right now to
put in that kind of work.
You can look all over and yes,I know there are people out
there that are struggling andthey're working 60 hours a week,
can't afford their insurance,but they get insurance.
(14:59):
So I mean, I'm not saying thatyou know some people aren't
struggling.
They are.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
But talk to me.
Do you know about the DarienGap?
Tell me about it.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Okay, never mind, it's part of the, it's part of
the trail that comes.
Oh shoot, I thought maybe youwould have known about it.
Never mind, pull out my GildaRadner, never mind.
But yeah, I mean, we're talkingabout how far is it from, say,
(15:38):
peru to the border.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Oh the border.
I could tell you, the flightfrom LAX to Peru is about eight
hours straight, almost ninehours straight a flight.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
That's a direct flight.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
A direct flight almost nine hours yeah.
Wow, so we're talking months,months possibly, it depends,
right?
I think my mom was able to cometo San Diego and then from San
Diego she crossed over by landand water.
She tells me the story of whenshe was crossing water, that I
was two years old and she wascarrying me and it was nighttime
(16:12):
and she was terrified andpeople were asking her if she
wanted help like carrying me,and she was so afraid of letting
me go because she was so afraidthat she would never see me
again right, and that wasprobably a very real fear yeah,
it was.
This was 40 years ago.
She was a 20 something year oldyoung woman, alone in a country
with language.
She didn't speak with a youngchild and in fear yeah, yeah,
(16:37):
that's, that's crazy, but I soappreciate that.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
You are a clinical social worker, right, yes, okay.
And when we say that you dopsychological immigration
evaluations, what does thatentail?
Speaker 2 (17:01):
immigration evaluations.
What does that entail?
So psychological immigrationevaluations is a thorough
psychological assessment of anindividual that is either
petitioning to remain in the USor they're petitioning for a
family member.
So, depending on the type ofpetition and what I have to
illustrate in that is theemotional, psychological,
financial impact that if theyleft that it would have either
(17:22):
on the US citizen here or, ifthey left, the type of
psychological impact that theycould face if they were to be
deported.
So, for example, there are somany different qualifications.
Like U-Visa is if somebody'sbeen a victim of a crime here in
the United States by a UScitizen, victim of a crime here
in the United States by a UScitizen and they help law
(17:43):
enforcement be able to like,navigate and report that and
help them detain the person,then they could qualify based on
that.
But there would have to be asignificant emotional and
psychological impact to thecrime that they were part of or
witnessed.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
All right, all right.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Yeah and I can't.
Yeah, I mean, how is it areasonable, do most people there
?
I go generalizing again.
I'm not going to do that as ageneral rule.
Do most people think that theywill be able to just live here
(18:23):
until they can become citizens,or they just no?
Speaker 2 (18:29):
There's no hope there .
The thing is, there is this.
I don't know.
I think a lot of US citizens orpeople think that there is a
pathway to citizenship.
There isn't a pathway tocitizenship.
The United States has notcreated that.
The really the ways to do it isthrough asylum, through like
(18:51):
refugee, through like if you getmarried and through some of
these petitions that peopledon't know.
But they have to have gonethrough something difficult.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
They have to have gone through a violent crime,
human trafficking, seeking likea political refugee in order to
try to apply, they have toprovide evidence that if they
were sent back, they would bemost likely killed.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Absolutely yes, and so they have to be under an
extreme like hardship or youknow, or or psychological impact
in order to even petition.
And that doesn't mean thatthey're going to get approved
right, right, right.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
So they just live.
They just live here and andthey don't collect any kind of
social services, really no, theypay taxes and they don't.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Yeah, they pay.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
Talk to me about how that works.
I mean because I yes, so anundocumented worker can get a
social security number.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
No, it's a TIN number or E&I number.
I forgot what it's called.
It's TIN or E&I.
I forgot Temporaryidentification.
Yeah, it's Taxpayeridentification number.
There you go.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
There you go.
Tin Taxpayer identificationnumber.
Forgot what it's called.
It's scenery and I I forgot andit's a number.
Yeah, it's an taxpayeridentification number there you
go.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
There you go 10 taxpayer identification number.
Perfect, yes and uh.
With that they can file taxes.
So they can pay taxes.
Right, that's to kind of buildsome history for themselves and
say I'm here and I want, I'mworking and I want to pay my
taxes but they will never see adime in social security or any
of it Not at all.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Never Not at all.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Not at all.
I mean, it'll help themeventually like say, okay, if
they want to buy a house or ifthey want to be able to do
something like with a US citizen, right then they can provide,
like you know tax, like you know, years of taxes.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Look, I'm paying taxes, yes but they will not
collect the benefits of that,and I think that's another one
of those misconceptions thatthey are a drain on our economy,
when in fact they're actuallycontributing to it.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Yes, absolutely.
They contribute so much andtake so little.
And there are so many jobs thatimmigrants do that US citizens
will never do.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
I would never do that .
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Who wants to be in the fields, in the heat, working
at the wee hours of the morningand in agriculture, or in a
meatpacking plant or in ameatpacking plant and freezing
in Nebraska.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Southern Minnesota.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Minnesota, exactly.
People don't want to do thosejobs.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
No, no, I laugh when they talk about it.
You always hear it.
They're taking our jobs.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Yes, oh shit.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
You would never do that job.
Never.
No, Don't give me that crap, itis BS.
Yes, Um, so, so I'll I'll.
I have a memory.
Um, my, my dad worked for anairline in the eighties and he
(21:58):
worked, he worked in San Diegoand I went out to visit him and
we were going to go to Tijuana,right?
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
But we were driving and we hit a stoplight by like a
lumberyard and there were allthese guys standing around at
the corner.
I'm like what's going on overthere?
Day laborers.
That was the first time I'dever seen anything like that.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Yeah, oh, really Okay yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Well, I had a sheltered life.
Okay, I had a sheltered whiteboy life.
What can I say?
I grew up in Montana.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
You hustle right.
That's what we do as immigrants.
Nobody's going to give us ahandout.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
Right.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
We have to work for it.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
And you're not asking for a handout either.
No, absolutely, you want towork for it.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
Absolutely, and that's what I said earlier.
That's what I said earlier.
I feel that I there's acommitment that I have made to
myself because of the sacrificesthat my parents made coming
here not just my parents, but somany immigrants, so many people
that are parents andgrandparents, generations of
individuals that have that haveleft their home life to come
(23:16):
here, and I have a duty to dothe best that I can.
I have a duty to do the bestthat I can in order to honor
that sacrifice that they havemade.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Yeah, you're standing on their shoulders, basically,
yeah, yeah, I mean when youthink back 40 years ago, because
your mom was so incrediblybrave.
(23:49):
I get to talk to you about this.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Absolutely no.
I am truly, truly blessed ofher sacrifice.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Now is your mom still down in San Diego area?
Oh no, she's in my kitchen,probably cooking nice yeah,
although it's probably lunchwhere you are yes, yeah, she
helps me a lot, she's, that's socool and, and I think family
(24:21):
means more to immigrantcommunities.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Yes, it's huge.
Yeah, we have to rally aroundeach other Again.
People have left their homes orcommunities generations and
they come here and reconnect.
Immigrants will find each otherall the time.
That's cool.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Yes, they will know each other's the time.
Yeah, that's cool.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Yes, they will know each other's accents and they
will connect and they will bond,and you know, and then bond
over food again.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
That's way cool.
Yeah, I also like to bond overfood.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Right Next time you go.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
No, it's just.
It's such a heartbreaking thingfor me to see us having these
conversations but completelydismissing or leaving out the
(25:25):
humanity.
When we talk about immigrants,we're talking about human beings
who, I mean at the bare minimum, are deserving of compassion
and empathy and basic humankindness, right.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
Yes, absolutely, and I mean I know that the system is
broken.
We do not have in the US, we donot have a good immigration
system, and I recognize that.
But there also hasn't been anymovement forward to create a
good immigration system.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
It's like they just leave it for every four years
for election time, so they canbitch about it.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Absolutely yes, I am such a pun now today.
It's a heavy subject, you knowit's a subject with a lot of
emotion.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
It is, it really is.
Our country needs to have anhonest conversation, without the
generalizations, without themisinformation, and say you know
what's fair to everybody, right?
(26:36):
Because I mean you're talkingabout and it's going to affect.
If we were to deport everyundocumented person today, just
some magic spell or what haveyou, I think Americans would be
(26:57):
absolutely shocked at thebreakdown, basically the
breakdown of society.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
And I mean, and when we look atimmigrants, we're looking at
people from so many countries,not just this is not just.
Yes, I mean, we're looking atpeople from you know Southeast
Asia.
We're looking at people fromyou know even Canada.
You know from so so manydifferent countries, and I think
(27:24):
that's what has made the US sobeautiful our diversity and
there's such a huge likemovement away from that and how
we should look like as a country, but this is what we have.
We have looked like this forsuch a long time, like diverse
people being able to cometogether and have conversations
(27:45):
that you and I are having rightnow.
What would the world be like ifwe weren't able to come
together like this?
Speaker 1 (27:52):
yeah, I can remember growing up and we would it was a
source of pride to say thatAmerica is a melting pot.
You know, you said that proudly.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
And I don't think people still feel that way, some
of them.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Yeah, I know, I used to be so proud to be here and be
a US citizen, and even I justrecently traveled.
I just came back from Japan andwhen people asked where I was
from, I was like Los Angeles,california, I don't even want to
say the United States.
Or from Peru I was from.
I was like Los Angeles,california, I didn't even want
to say the United States because.
Or from Peru.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
I'm originally from Peru.
I'm from Peru.
Your English is very good.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Yeah, because I was concerned about maybe the
stereotype or the backlash thatmay come when people found out I
was from the US.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
That's a valid concern, yeah, yeah.
Well, rosa, I really really,really appreciate your, your
point of view and yourperspective on this, and maybe,
if we have more conversationslike this, some people wake up
(29:01):
and start demanding that we havean honest conversation about
immigrants, regardless of wherethey come from, and I'm hopeful.
How about that?
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Yes, I mean, you're right.
I think, instead of asking like, why are they here, why are
they coming?
And I think it's important tostart asking like, what have
they survived to get here?
Because it's not, it's not theproblem to solve, right, it's
it's people with stories thatare really worth hearing, with
experiences that can contributeso much to our current society.
(29:39):
It's like stories of struggleand also triumph and being yeah,
yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
I think some people just think that somebody in
Argentina wakes up one Okay,that might be a, maybe not
Argentina, but somebody fromSouth America just wakes up one
day and goes I'm going to breakinto the US.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
It doesn't happen that way and that's not what's
going on.
Yeah, yeah, we need to hearthese stories and we need to
have honest conversations andnot misinformation or any of
that stuff.
Thank you so much for your timetoday, rosa.
I really, really, reallyappreciate it.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Thank you so much, Mike.
Thank you for creating thisplatform.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
You're very welcome.
Let's talk again.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
Yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
We'll do it.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
Take care and we'll talk soon.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Thank you so much, Mike.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
I want to thank you for taking this time to listen
to this episode today with myguest, rosa Aquino.
I hope you were able to takesomething positive from the time
you spent with us.
Maybe you'll be inspired, maybeyou'll be motivated to have
those conversations that need tobe had, maybe you'll be moved.
(31:02):
If you experienced any of thosepositive feelings, please
consider sharing this podcastwith your friends and family.
I am always striving to offeryou a better podcast, so give me
some feedback, let me know howyou think you're doing, email me
, leave me a message on mysocials it would mean the world
(31:24):
and also make sure to feel freeto follow us on our social media
platforms like facebook,instagram, linkedin and tiktok.
All of those links are in theshow notes.
This podcast is part of theMayday Media Network.
If you have an idea for apodcast and need some production
(31:45):
assistance, or if you have apodcast and you're looking for a
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(32:06):
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We will be back again next weekwith a new episode and we would
be honored if you would join us.
You've been listening to theKindness Matters Podcast.
I'm your host, mike Rathbun.
Have a fantastic week.
Well, hello there and welcome.
You are listening to theKindness Matters podcast and I
am your host, Mike Rathbun.
What is this podcast all about?
It's about kindness.
It's a pushback againsteverything negative that we see
in the news and on social mediatoday, and it's a way to
(00:20):
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(00:42):
Check us out.
We're even on LinkedIn underMike Rathbun.
Check us out and, in themeantime, so sit back, relax,
enjoy and we'll get into theKindness Matters podcast.
Hey, welcome everybody to theshow.
I am so happy that you couldjoin us and I am so grateful
(01:02):
that you deemed this showimportant enough to spend 30
minutes or so of your time on.
Thank you so much for that.
Your generosity humbles me.
Remember, if there's anythingin this episode that you hear
that uplifts you or inspires youor motivates you, please make
(01:26):
sure to share that with yourfriends, your family, your
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As far as our show today goes.
In the show notes as far as ourshow today goes.
(01:49):
For some time now, the nationalconversation around immigration
has centered around a lot ofvague generalities, right?
Phrases that start with thosepeople or portray nearly anyone
who comes across the border asbreaking law are meant to paint
a negative picture of certainindividuals.
And I don't want to get intothe politics of immigration, I
(02:13):
really don't but I thought itwould be helpful if we could add
some context to theconversation to look at the
people who come to this countryas individuals with different
needs and different desires,instead of as criminals.
Right, and in order to do that,I can think of absolutely
(02:37):
nobody better than my guesttoday, Rosa Casquino.
Rosa Casquino, she's a Latinxlicensed clinical social worker,
trauma therapist and speaker.
She specializes in supportingsurvivors of childhood sexual
abuse, narcissistic abuse andcomplex trauma, with a focus on
(03:00):
the Latinx and immigrantcommunities focus on the Latinx
and immigrant communities.
She also provides psychologicalimmigration evaluations and
offers trainings and educationalworkshop for agencies and
companies on trauma, informedand culturally responsive care.
Welcome to the show, Rosa.
Thanks for coming.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Thanks so much, Mike, for having me on.
I appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Did I mess up any of that?
Speaker 2 (03:25):
No.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
I really thought I was going to stumble over
narcissistic.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
That's great.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Awesome, awesome, awesome.
So, yeah, I mean, I get sotired of just.
I should really stay off socialmedia is what I should really
be doing.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
A lot of us should right.
I call it practicing goodsocial media hygiene at times,
because it's so overwhelming.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Yep, yep, absolutely.
Because when you see, like newsstories, where you know a judge
strikes down one of thepolicies or one of the laws or
one of the, whatever it is, andyou go into the comments in
(04:15):
there and it's always broke thelaw, illegal, blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah, and I, I reallythink, I wish that everybody
could see each of these peoplethat comes in comes here for for
who?
As human beings?
Right, because we lose that.
(04:35):
We lose, yes, we lose thatimage of this isn't an illegal
or this or that.
It's a human being.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Yes, yeah, and that's what I appreciate about this
conversation, mike, is thatwe're working on humanizing the
immigration side of you know theimmigration topic right, the
immigrant story and bringingreally awareness to the
invisible trauma of migration,because that's that's what
happens to a lot of the peoplethat are coming over here.
It is something that is areally difficult decision and
(05:07):
experience for so many.
As I've worked with you knowthe immigrant community for over
10 years and myself being animmigrant.
It is a story, everybody hastheir story and they're not all
joyful and you know, I thinkthere's an image of the yellow
brick road at times, but it isnot the way it is.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
It isn't yeah no, I mean, I, I can't imagine picking
up everything I own and puttingit in a bag and traveling
hundreds, if not thousands ofmiles through some really nasty
(05:50):
areas, just for a shot at abetter life.
And that's really what'shappening here, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Yes, yes it is.
You know.
I came to the US when I was two.
I was born in Peru, my dad camefirst and then, you know, once
he got settled in, my mom came,and she still cries about the
day that she left because shedid not get a chance to say
goodbye to her mother.
That was the last time she eversaw her mom and that was 40
(06:19):
years ago, and to this day shestill cries about it, the fact
that she had to leave her entirefamily and life behind, to come
here and give me, and then mybrother, the opportunities for a
life that wasn't bound to youknow, to the earth at times,
that it wasn't bound to poverty,that wasn't bound to political
(06:41):
unrest.
That could you know that couldoccur, that is occurring right
now in so many differentcountries, and you know so.
I feel like I've owed it to her, and to so many immigrant men
and women, to do the best that Ican and to be able to support
my community.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Is that what inspired you to get into this type of
work?
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Yes, so I mean growing up as an immigrant and
undocumented immigrant, actuallyup until the age of 18.
I didn't.
Yeah, I was undocumented to thatage, so I understand the
struggles and the fears that cancome up for so many of the
individuals today, right?
So, as I mentioned, that wasthe process that that I went
through, and I not only did Igrow up as an immigrant, but I
(07:23):
also grew up in a violenthousehold.
I am a survivor of sexualtrauma, and so all of that at a
young age, when I was a teenager, made me want to get into the
field of psychology.
I wanted to be a childpsychologist to help out kids
that were going through what Iwas going through.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Wow, I can't even imagine.
Wow, I can't even imagine.
So what, what?
And I again I can't, I can'timagine a situation so bad that
would require me to do that.
You've.
You've dealt with a lot.
Are the stories all fairlysimilar?
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Yes, there's stories of extreme poverty.
There's stories of extremeabuse, of extreme loneliness and
isolation.
So many people that I haveworked with that themselves were
(08:23):
the caregivers for theirsiblings at a really young age,
because there was so muchpoverty in their household that
they came over here, they lefttheir young siblings, they left
their family, they left theirhome just to be able to send
money so that people can eat.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Yeah, yeah, that's crazy, so that people can eat.
Yeah, yeah, that's crazy, and Imean I just I keep going back
to this because it just bogglesmy mind that I mean, and really,
when you're immigrating toanother country, you don't know
(09:04):
if you'll even be allowed toenter, but it's worth that trek.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Yes, yes, it is.
That's the thing it's.
So there isn't any hope at homefor so many people.
That's the thing.
The hope is gone and the onlything that is sparking the hope
is that, hopefully, in cominghere, that there is an
opportunity for work.
People don't come hereexpecting free things.
I think that's a hugemisconception that a lot of you
(09:32):
know, as we're talking aboutsocial media, that people are
coming for the free healthcare,for free housing, for free this.
That's a blatant lie,misconception, rhetoric,
propaganda that is being spewedout there.
That is not true at all.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Wow, and yes, thank you for bringing that up,
because I did want to addressthat and I think there are so
many misconceptions out therethat you know people just walk
into this country and they couldget free health care and they
get a house and they get allthis stuff and that's none of
it's true.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
No, absolutely not.
I used to work in a domesticviolence shelter and we were
actually one of the only shelterin LA County that that was able
to bring in people that wereundocumented into the shelter.
Because we because that fundingwasn't federal funding, it was
a different type of funding thatallowed us to do that.
(10:25):
Now, if it had been federalfunding, we wouldn't have been
able to bring in anybody thatwas undocumented and help them
and house them while they wereescaping a very abusive
relationship.
All the other shelters asked fora social security number or
wanted them to be citizens orresidents in order to be able
for them to go into thoseshelters and escape abuse.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
For domestic violence .
Shelter For domestic violence,for domestic violence shelter,
yes, wow, yeah, that's crazy,was it the same for like a
homeless shelter?
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Well, we were home.
Yeah, it was a homelessviolence shelter.
Yes, so it was the same at thattime that was over 10 years ago
.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Yeah, that's, that's crazy, so.
So what does the typicalundocumented immigrant?
Speaker 2 (11:22):
do they get any kind of assistance at all, or do they
just make it on their own?
I guess it depends on the stateright.
Different states have differentbenefits and initiatives and I
know in the state of Californiathere was Medi-Cal that was
being given.
Now that's again because ofwhat's happening with the
current administration.
That's probably going to betaken.
That will be taken away for, Ibelieve, anybody over the age of
19.
So at least kids are being kidswill still, hopefully still be
(11:43):
receiving that, but not adultswho may need it, who have, may
have health conditions thatwould really need their
medication.
So that's that's something thatis really difficult.
I mean I'm blessed to live inthe state of California where we
can continue to support andprovide services through grants
and funding and donations toindividuals that are, that are
struggling, and but no otherthan that.
(12:06):
I mean people do not qualifyunless you have a social
security number.
You do not qualify for Section8 housing, you don't qualify for
food stamps, you don't qualifyfor certain resources.
That is completely untrue, thatpeople are taking taxpayer
money and using those resourceswithout being here with proper
(12:28):
documentation.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
Right, god, that's just.
It's so frustrating, isn't it?
Yes, because I mean, if youwant to have an honest
conversation about immigration,at least let's get the facts
right.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Yes, I mean.
That's why I think it'simportant to have this
conversation.
I appreciate the platform thatyou're creating right now, mike,
because there is such amisconception, and there's a
misconception in a lot of whitespaces, and so I want to be able
to come on to these spaces andbe able to put a face to the
Latinx individual and say thisis what's actually happening and
(13:02):
going on in our community.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Yeah Well, and I appreciate you wanting to have
that conversation too Can yougive us an example of I mean you
don't have to use names oranything like that just a
typical person that well, I meanI suppose you could use your
mom, but or, or you know, justsomebody who's fleeing something
(13:26):
and and what they went throughjust to get here.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Oh, I mean I've heard so many stories personally
within my own community and inthe individuals that I work with
.
I mean people have survivednear-death experiences crossing
over in the desert, people havesurvived near drowning and when
they're crossing over throughwater.
People have survived humantrafficking, rape, being held
(13:54):
prisoners and being sexuallyassaulted, and then traffic for
labor because they were broughtover and they had to pay back
their debt.
These are the atrocities thatpeople are facing, and
particularly women that arecoming over here to be able to
provide for their parents, fortheir siblings, for any young
little kids that they may haveleft behind.
(14:17):
That's what they're goingthrough and they still make it
and they still come.
They still find work and theystill work hard.
They work 40 plus hours to beable to send money home for
their families to survive beable to send money home for
their families to survive.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
And I defy any American citizen right now to
put in that kind of work.
You can look all over and yes,I know there are people out
there that are struggling andthey're working 60 hours a week,
can't afford their insurance,but they get insurance.
(14:59):
So I mean, I'm not saying thatyou know some people aren't
struggling.
They are.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
But talk to me.
Do you know about the DarienGap?
Tell me about it.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Okay, never mind, it's part of the, it's part of
the trail that comes.
Oh shoot, I thought maybe youwould have known about it.
Never mind, pull out my GildaRadner, never mind.
But yeah, I mean, we're talkingabout how far is it from, say,
(15:38):
peru to the border.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Oh the border.
I could tell you, the flightfrom LAX to Peru is about eight
hours straight, almost ninehours straight a flight.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
That's a direct flight.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
A direct flight almost nine hours yeah.
Wow, so we're talking months,months possibly, it depends,
right?
I think my mom was able to cometo San Diego and then from San
Diego she crossed over by landand water.
She tells me the story of whenshe was crossing water, that I
was two years old and she wascarrying me and it was nighttime
(16:12):
and she was terrified andpeople were asking her if she
wanted help like carrying me,and she was so afraid of letting
me go because she was so afraidthat she would never see me
again right, and that wasprobably a very real fear yeah,
it was.
This was 40 years ago.
She was a 20 something year oldyoung woman, alone in a country
with language.
She didn't speak with a youngchild and in fear yeah, yeah,
(16:37):
that's, that's crazy, but I soappreciate that.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
You are a clinical social worker, right, yes, okay.
And when we say that you dopsychological immigration
evaluations, what does thatentail?
Speaker 2 (17:01):
immigration evaluations.
What does that entail?
So psychological immigrationevaluations is a thorough
psychological assessment of anindividual that is either
petitioning to remain in the USor they're petitioning for a
family member.
So, depending on the type ofpetition and what I have to
illustrate in that is theemotional, psychological,
financial impact that if theyleft that it would have either
(17:22):
on the US citizen here or, ifthey left, the type of
psychological impact that theycould face if they were to be
deported.
So, for example, there are somany different qualifications.
Like U-Visa is if somebody'sbeen a victim of a crime here in
the United States by a UScitizen, victim of a crime here
in the United States by a UScitizen and they help law
(17:43):
enforcement be able to like,navigate and report that and
help them detain the person,then they could qualify based on
that.
But there would have to be asignificant emotional and
psychological impact to thecrime that they were part of or
witnessed.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
All right, all right.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Yeah and I can't.
Yeah, I mean, how is it areasonable, do most people there
?
I go generalizing again.
I'm not going to do that as ageneral rule.
Do most people think that theywill be able to just live here
(18:23):
until they can become citizens,or they just no?
Speaker 2 (18:29):
There's no hope there .
The thing is, there is this.
I don't know.
I think a lot of US citizens orpeople think that there is a
pathway to citizenship.
There isn't a pathway tocitizenship.
The United States has notcreated that.
The really the ways to do it isthrough asylum, through like
(18:51):
refugee, through like if you getmarried and through some of
these petitions that peopledon't know.
But they have to have gonethrough something difficult.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
They have to have gone through a violent crime,
human trafficking, seeking likea political refugee in order to
try to apply, they have toprovide evidence that if they
were sent back, they would bemost likely killed.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Absolutely yes, and so they have to be under an
extreme like hardship or youknow, or or psychological impact
in order to even petition.
And that doesn't mean thatthey're going to get approved
right, right, right.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
So they just live.
They just live here and andthey don't collect any kind of
social services, really no, theypay taxes and they don't.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Yeah, they pay.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
Talk to me about how that works.
I mean because I yes, so anundocumented worker can get a
social security number.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
No, it's a TIN number or E&I number.
I forgot what it's called.
It's TIN or E&I.
I forgot Temporaryidentification.
Yeah, it's Taxpayeridentification number.
There you go.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
There you go.
Tin Taxpayer identificationnumber.
Forgot what it's called.
It's scenery and I I forgot andit's a number.
Yeah, it's an taxpayeridentification number there you
go.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
There you go 10 taxpayer identification number.
Perfect, yes and uh.
With that they can file taxes.
So they can pay taxes.
Right, that's to kind of buildsome history for themselves and
say I'm here and I want, I'mworking and I want to pay my
taxes but they will never see adime in social security or any
of it Not at all.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Never Not at all.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Not at all.
I mean, it'll help themeventually like say, okay, if
they want to buy a house or ifthey want to be able to do
something like with a US citizen, right then they can provide,
like you know tax, like you know, years of taxes.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Look, I'm paying taxes, yes but they will not
collect the benefits of that,and I think that's another one
of those misconceptions thatthey are a drain on our economy,
when in fact they're actuallycontributing to it.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Yes, absolutely.
They contribute so much andtake so little.
And there are so many jobs thatimmigrants do that US citizens
will never do.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
I would never do that .
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Who wants to be in the fields, in the heat, working
at the wee hours of the morningand in agriculture, or in a
meatpacking plant or in ameatpacking plant and freezing
in Nebraska.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Southern Minnesota.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Minnesota, exactly.
People don't want to do thosejobs.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
No, no, I laugh when they talk about it.
You always hear it.
They're taking our jobs.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Yes, oh shit.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
You would never do that job.
Never.
No, Don't give me that crap, itis BS.
Yes, Um, so, so I'll I'll.
I have a memory.
Um, my, my dad worked for anairline in the eighties and he
(21:58):
worked, he worked in San Diegoand I went out to visit him and
we were going to go to Tijuana,right?
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
But we were driving and we hit a stoplight by like a
lumberyard and there were allthese guys standing around at
the corner.
I'm like what's going on overthere?
Day laborers.
That was the first time I'dever seen anything like that.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Yeah, oh, really Okay yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Well, I had a sheltered life.
Okay, I had a sheltered whiteboy life.
What can I say?
I grew up in Montana.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
You hustle right.
That's what we do as immigrants.
Nobody's going to give us ahandout.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
Right.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
We have to work for it.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
And you're not asking for a handout either.
No, absolutely, you want towork for it.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
Absolutely, and that's what I said earlier.
That's what I said earlier.
I feel that I there's acommitment that I have made to
myself because of the sacrificesthat my parents made coming
here not just my parents, but somany immigrants, so many people
that are parents andgrandparents, generations of
individuals that have that haveleft their home life to come
(23:16):
here, and I have a duty to dothe best that I can.
I have a duty to do the bestthat I can in order to honor
that sacrifice that they havemade.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Yeah, you're standing on their shoulders, basically,
yeah, yeah, I mean when youthink back 40 years ago, because
your mom was so incrediblybrave.
(23:49):
I get to talk to you about this.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Absolutely no.
I am truly, truly blessed ofher sacrifice.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Now is your mom still down in San Diego area?
Oh no, she's in my kitchen,probably cooking nice yeah,
although it's probably lunchwhere you are yes, yeah, she
helps me a lot, she's, that's socool and, and I think family
(24:21):
means more to immigrantcommunities.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Yes, it's huge.
Yeah, we have to rally aroundeach other Again.
People have left their homes orcommunities generations and
they come here and reconnect.
Immigrants will find each otherall the time.
That's cool.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Yes, they will know each other's the time.
Yeah, that's cool.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Yes, they will know each other's accents and they
will connect and they will bond,and you know, and then bond
over food again.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
That's way cool.
Yeah, I also like to bond overfood.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Right Next time you go.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
No, it's just.
It's such a heartbreaking thingfor me to see us having these
conversations but completelydismissing or leaving out the
(25:25):
humanity.
When we talk about immigrants,we're talking about human beings
who, I mean at the bare minimum, are deserving of compassion
and empathy and basic humankindness, right.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
Yes, absolutely, and I mean I know that the system is
broken.
We do not have in the US, we donot have a good immigration
system, and I recognize that.
But there also hasn't been anymovement forward to create a
good immigration system.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
It's like they just leave it for every four years
for election time, so they canbitch about it.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Absolutely yes, I am such a pun now today.
It's a heavy subject, you knowit's a subject with a lot of
emotion.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
It is, it really is.
Our country needs to have anhonest conversation, without the
generalizations, without themisinformation, and say you know
what's fair to everybody, right?
(26:36):
Because I mean you're talkingabout and it's going to affect.
If we were to deport everyundocumented person today, just
some magic spell or what haveyou, I think Americans would be
(26:57):
absolutely shocked at thebreakdown, basically the
breakdown of society.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
And I mean, and when we look atimmigrants, we're looking at
people from so many countries,not just this is not just.
Yes, I mean, we're looking atpeople from you know Southeast
Asia.
We're looking at people fromyou know even Canada.
You know from so so manydifferent countries, and I think
(27:24):
that's what has made the US sobeautiful our diversity and
there's such a huge likemovement away from that and how
we should look like as a country, but this is what we have.
We have looked like this forsuch a long time, like diverse
people being able to cometogether and have conversations
(27:45):
that you and I are having rightnow.
What would the world be like ifwe weren't able to come
together like this?
Speaker 1 (27:52):
yeah, I can remember growing up and we would it was a
source of pride to say thatAmerica is a melting pot.
You know, you said that proudly.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
And I don't think people still feel that way, some
of them.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Yeah, I know, I used to be so proud to be here and be
a US citizen, and even I justrecently traveled.
I just came back from Japan andwhen people asked where I was
from, I was like Los Angeles,california, I don't even want to
say the United States.
Or from Peru I was from.
I was like Los Angeles,california, I didn't even want
to say the United States because.
Or from Peru.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
I'm originally from Peru.
I'm from Peru.
Your English is very good.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Yeah, because I was concerned about maybe the
stereotype or the backlash thatmay come when people found out I
was from the US.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
That's a valid concern, yeah, yeah.
Well, rosa, I really really,really appreciate your, your
point of view and yourperspective on this, and maybe,
if we have more conversationslike this, some people wake up
(29:01):
and start demanding that we havean honest conversation about
immigrants, regardless of wherethey come from, and I'm hopeful.
How about that?
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Yes, I mean, you're right.
I think, instead of asking like, why are they here, why are
they coming?
And I think it's important tostart asking like, what have
they survived to get here?
Because it's not, it's not theproblem to solve, right, it's
it's people with stories thatare really worth hearing, with
experiences that can contributeso much to our current society.
(29:39):
It's like stories of struggleand also triumph and being yeah,
yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
I think some people just think that somebody in
Argentina wakes up one Okay,that might be a, maybe not
Argentina, but somebody fromSouth America just wakes up one
day and goes I'm going to breakinto the US.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
It doesn't happen that way and that's not what's
going on.
Yeah, yeah, we need to hearthese stories and we need to
have honest conversations andnot misinformation or any of
that stuff.
Thank you so much for your timetoday, rosa.
I really, really, reallyappreciate it.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Thank you so much, Mike.
Thank you for creating thisplatform.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
You're very welcome.
Let's talk again.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
Yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
We'll do it.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
Take care and we'll talk soon.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Thank you so much, Mike.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
I want to thank you for taking this time to listen
to this episode today with myguest, rosa Aquino.
I hope you were able to takesomething positive from the time
you spent with us.
Maybe you'll be inspired, maybeyou'll be motivated to have
those conversations that need tobe had, maybe you'll be moved.
(31:02):
If you experienced any of thosepositive feelings, please
consider sharing this podcastwith your friends and family.
I am always striving to offeryou a better podcast, so give me
some feedback, let me know howyou think you're doing, email me
, leave me a message on mysocials it would mean the world
(31:24):
and also make sure to feel freeto follow us on our social media
platforms like facebook,instagram, linkedin and tiktok.
All of those links are in theshow notes.
This podcast is part of theMayday Media Network.
If you have an idea for apodcast and need some production
(31:45):
assistance, or if you have apodcast and you're looking for a
supportive network to join,check out maydaymedianetworkcom
and also check out the manydifferent shows like Afrocentric
Spoil, my Movie GenerationMixtape In a Pickle Radio Show,
(32:06):
wake Up and Dream with D'AnthonyPalin, staxo Pax and the Time
Pals.
We will be back again next weekwith a new episode and we would
be honored if you would join us.
You've been listening to theKindness Matters Podcast.
I'm your host, mike Rathbun.
Have a fantastic week.
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