August 28, 2025 • 38 mins
Discover the transformative power of compassion in productivity with Lisa Zawrotny, founder of Positively Productive Systems. In this heartfelt conversation, Lisa shares her profound journey from overwhelmed caregiver—simultaneously raising two young children while caring for her mother with Alzheimer's—to becoming a coach who champions a radically different approach to getting things done.
Lisa introduces us to "whole life decluttering," a framework that goes far beyond organizing physical spaces to address the mental and emotional clutter weighing us down. Unlike traditional productivity methods that often generate shame when we fail to meet arbitrary standards, Lisa's approach begins with self-awareness and self-kindness. "What I needed more than anything was compassion," she reflects on her caregiving years, a revelation that now forms the foundation of her coaching practice.
This episode particularly resonates for anyone who's ever felt like a square peg trying to fit into productivity's round hole—caregivers, creatives, multi-passionate individuals, those with chronic illness, and especially the neurodivergent community. Lisa celebrates the unique strengths of these minds while offering practical insights for creating systems that work with their natural tendencies rather than against them.
Whether you're drowning in physical clutter, struggling with productivity shame, or simply seeking a more compassionate approach to organizing your life, this conversation offers both practical wisdom and emotional validation. Join us to discover how kindness—especially to yourself—might be the missing ingredient in your productivity journey.
This podcast is a proud member of the Mayday Media Network. If you have an idea for a podcast and need some production assistance or have a podcast and are looking for a supportive network to join, check out maydaymedianetwork.com.
Like what you hear on the podcast? Follow our social media and subscribe to our newsletter for more uplifting, inspirational and feel-good content.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everyone and welcome to the Kindness Matters
podcast.
I'm your host, mike Rathbun.
On this podcast, we promotepositivity, empathy and
compassion because we believethat kindness is alive and well,
and there are people andorganizations that you may not
(00:21):
have heard of in the world,making their communities a
better place for everyone, andwe want you to hear their
stories.
On this podcast, we talk aboutmatters of kindness because
kindness matters.
Hey, hello and welcomeeverybody to the Kindness
(00:41):
Matters podcast.
I am your host, mike Rathbun.
Thank you.
I'm not sure that you out therelistening realize just how much
it means to me that you took 30minutes-ish out of your day and
(01:02):
you chose to listen to thispodcast.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Talk about kindness.
That is an act and you do itbecause you like it and thank
you for that too.
If you hear something on thispodcast and with the guests I
have today, there is absolutelyno doubt in my mind that you're
going to hear something that youabsolutely adore.
You know, feel free to tellyour friends and your relatives
(01:35):
and your co-workers and thatweird guy on the corner about
this podcast and tell them, youknow, you're able to find
someplace to go and listen touplifting, light content.
That and that's a rare thing inthis world today, isn't it?
So please share, share, share.
Talk about okay, since I wastalking about my guest, my guest
(01:59):
today is Lisa Zerotny.
Did I do that right?
I did that right.
I got it right, lisa, yeah, ohyeah, you did.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Oh, okay.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Boy, I didn't hear you for a second.
I thought I messed it up.
Lisa is the founder ofPositively Productive Systems
and the host of the PositivelyLiving podcast, and I could try
to tell you what she's beenthrough in her life and how she
(02:33):
got to where she is today, but Iwould not do that story justice
, so I'm going to leave that onefor Lisa.
Thank you for coming on theshow today.
Lisa, Thank you so much forbeing here and welcome.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Thank you so much, mike.
I am delighted to be here.
You are so right.
Kindness is what we need toseek out every chance we get.
You know the saying all youneed is love, and kindness is
right there with it.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
I just went to Love Actually.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Love that movie.
Exactly, you knew I wasthinking that because you know
music lyrics.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
I didn't know you were thinking that, but okay,
yeah, and so now you are a coach.
Is that correct?
That's correct, a coach as wellas a podcaster.
But there was something thatmade you be a coach, but you had
(03:36):
to go through a lot to getthere, right?
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Tell us all about it.
Spill the tea girl.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Okay, and I do call myself a productivity coach,
probably because the wordproductivity is a thing that we
understand, or at least weunderstand that we want, and I'm
out to do it differently.
I'm out to do it withcompassion.
So I just wanted to set thestage, because that's where we
connected with the idea ofcompassion and kindness, and why
(04:04):
does that matter?
Where we connected with theidea of compassion and kindness,
and why does that matter?
So, yes, let's back up and I'lldo my best to give you, in a
nutshell, my origin story ofthis, and it is that all
superheroes need one I'd like tothink so, right, uh, I look
good in a cape.
But you know, uh, don't we all?
Uh, because we are heroes ofour own journey here.
And so I'll tell you mine,which is that I was a caregiver
(04:27):
for my mom.
She had Alzheimer's and I caredfor her for close to five years
, while at the same time goingthrough two pregnancies, so
having two kiddos, and at onepoint I had an infant, a toddler
, and a mom, not really sure whoI was sundowning and doing all
(04:47):
the things that happen with anadvanced kind of cognitive
decline.
And yeah, I don't.
Sometimes I struggle todescribe this because I'm an
inherently very positive person.
I can look back at this withgratitude.
I know that it was a gift to meto reframe my life and my
(05:10):
appreciation for life and to putme on the path to where I am as
difficult if not more than whatyou think.
It was based on hearing thosewords, understanding the disease
(05:31):
that she had, the fact that shewas my mom, that, during a time
in which I would have loved tohave help from my mom, instead I
needed to care for her as well.
It nearly broke me.
It didn't, but it nearly did.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Yeah, yeah, I can't imagine being that person.
It's so tough I mean doublytough for you, because you don't
have just one person to takecare of.
You've got three at least right, two babies and a husband.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Yes of.
You've got three at least rightTwo babies and a husband.
Yes, he's an amazing guy, buthe had to help take care of us
too.
In his own way, he was workingdaily.
We had a business we weretrying to run.
We were barely getting by,despite the fact that we gave
everything we had.
So you're right.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Yeah, oh, and then you got the business to take
care of.
Did we talk about what that was?
Speaker 2 (06:30):
No, actually he and I had a wedding photography
business, so he had his day jobIT guy.
We had a wedding photographybusiness and that we eventually
had to.
You know, just sort of.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Sacrifices had to be made?
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Yeah, exactly, so we had to move on from that.
We did the best that we couldduring the course of time, but
there was a time when I wascaring for mom, had had a baby
and was still a weddingphotographer and just trying to
juggle all of it and eventuallywe we made a shift, but then
that, of course, was a financialhit for us.
(07:06):
So, yeah, these were all thethings that we were juggling and
it it was at times, asimpossible as it sounds yeah,
that is a lot of plates in theair, wow, because, yeah, and I
mean I've started a business.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
I know myself how what that's like and I can't
imagine all those other layerson top of it.
And you say something on yourwebsite that I thought was where
(07:45):
was it?
I don't know.
You talk about um after, afterall, that was over, and you
looked around and you went whoa,and I'm I'm putting it in a
(08:06):
nutshell, I think, but talkabout that a little bit, because
that's really the direct linefrom where you are today to
where you were back then.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Right, so, setting the scene right, we have the
caregiving which is survivalmode, and what happens in
survival mode.
You basically jettisoneverything that is a negotiable
and everything that you're likeI can deal with later or not
deal with or ignore or pretendit doesn't exist in some fashion
(08:39):
and I'll catch up with thatlater and even sometimes some
things that you really did needto tend to.
You have to prioritize, youhave to, you have to prioritize
surviving and sometimes your ownrest or your own whatever, and
I wasn't even doing a lot ofthose things.
So when my mom passed and thatpart of the caregiving was over
(09:01):
still had the kiddos, but atleast it was less than and when
you're that overwhelmed, thatactually feels a bit more
realistic.
There was something in me thatsaid you have stuff to deal with
Because there was also thisother part.
That's very normal for us, Ithink, to do this when we are in
a life transition, when we'rechanging, when something, when a
(09:24):
chapter closes, we're likewhat's next?
What do we have to do?
Or, you know, trying to getback to what you did.
You know it's all of thesetendencies and I had those
thoughts like do I get a job now?
What do I do and thank goodnessI said, whoa, like that's a lot
piled up around me, like evenphysicallyins of paperwork, of
(09:45):
mail that came in.
I'm not the bills, we took careof what we had to but again
tons of things that weren'taddressed and I thought I really
need to clear a path.
I need to clean out and sort oftake stock of where my life is,
and I wasn't even thinkingconsciously about the fact that
(10:05):
that would also allow me toprocess where I was as a person,
as a caregiver, as someone whohas a change in their role, if
you will.
I hadn't even thought aboutwhat that would mean for
processing grief and all thoseother things.
So this is a little bit offoreshadowing, right For what
happened when I started to clearthat path and it was the most
(10:28):
basic form of decluttering, butit's how I learned decluttering
is so incredibly healing and Ikept taking these steps,
clearing a path, realizing sixmonths down the road I kind of
realized I haven't properlygrieved for my mom.
It was very complex becausewhen you're so relieved to not
have to do more than you'recapable of, you know you're kind
(10:52):
of in this almost disassociatedkind of state.
So this whole process ofcleaning out, clearing out, you
know, taking stock of where I am, where I was and even where I'm
going was so incredibly healingthat I thought, okay, this is
amazing, I want to help otherpeople do this.
(11:13):
I started having conversationsand I can remember my first
client saying I want todeclutter too.
Can you help me do what youjust did for your family?
And I was like of course I can.
And we were having a cup ofcoffee, just checking in and she
was saying how overwhelmed shewas with the stuff.
And that led me to become aprofessional organizer and help
(11:34):
people declutter and open uptheir spaces in their world.
And to take it one step furtherthe minute I walked into
someone's home and got to knowthem and took their trust in me
which still means walked intosomeone's home and got to know
them and took their trust in me,which still means so much.
I'm so honored to have had that.
The minute I saw that it wasn'tjust about the stuff yeah, the
(11:54):
stuff is there but, that stuffcame from somewhere.
Where did it come from?
The head and the heart, yeah,and it hit me.
I was like, oh, that is why Iwanted to become a coach,
because I figured if we couldget there first, everything else
will work itself out, and Iabsolutely believe it does, and
(12:15):
for years I've been working withpeople.
Now Organizing and declutteringis definitely part of the
process a lot more virtual now,but that is 100%.
What happens is that when youget to your head and your heart,
you deal with your grief, youdeal with your trauma, you
understand how you work, youhonor your passions, you live in
a very full and honest andauthentic and kind way.
(12:39):
You will clean out the mess.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
It will resolve itself is that, just is it.
And I, I know people, and whenwe talk about declaring we're,
we're talking about figurativelyand literally, right, right.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Yeah, I'm so glad that you said that.
So it started with the physical.
I was a professional organizer,I would go in.
We're dealing with a crazyliving room or a bedroom or a
kitchen that you can't functionin, or whatever.
It was actual physical rooms.
But I realized with the headand the heart that there's so
much clutter that happens in ourlife.
(13:20):
So what I refer to is wholelife decluttering.
It's absolutely figurative, orit's intangible, if you will.
It's mental, it's emotional.
We have clutter in all aspectsof our lives, but the good news
is that understanding how todeal with it actually across the
board is very similar.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
That understanding how to deal with it actually
across the board is very similar.
Oh really, mm-hmm Just and I'veheard this before from friends
and family you know when youlook at something and you're
looking at all.
You're looking at all of it.
You know, and it's sooverwhelming to think about.
(13:59):
You know where do I start andyou know the best advice I ever
got was when you have a problemor when you have a situation,
start in one place, clean it up,get it done and then move on.
Is that the advice you give, ordoes it have any validity?
Speaker 2 (14:23):
It has validity.
It may not exactly be what Igive, although I can understand
the benefit of it.
So if it feels like somethingthat you need and that's a big
part of how I work as a coach isunderstanding you personally
and how you work best right.
So if it's something you need,the reason why that would work
is because, well, there's anumber of reasons.
(14:45):
One is taking action reducesour anxiety Always a good thing,
right, okay.
And number two would be thatwhen you take action, just like
when you are starting a habit,you build momentum.
When you take action, just likewhen you are starting a habit,
you build momentum, and thatmomentum builds your muscle for
the decluttering gets you usedto it.
It encourages you because youcan start to see progress.
(15:06):
It does all the thingspsychologically that you need to
move forward.
So I think it's a very validsuggestion.
Now, what I tend to suggest ismore of a framework.
I actually created a frameworkcalled the simple system,
because I like that idea of itreally is simple and we're
(15:26):
making it too complicated withoh, do we have to buy bins and
organizers, or how do I treat myto-do list, or wherever the
clutter is?
It really comes down tosimplifying why you're doing it
in the first place.
Now, it's not always easy to doit or easy to make the
(15:47):
decisions, but making thosedecisions create what I call
filters in your life.
Those filters tell you whatbelongs and what doesn't.
And once you know what belongsand what doesn't, think about
how simple decluttering becomes.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Yeah, I mean yeah, and speaking on a literal
declutter level.
Years and years ago, my mom wasliving by herself out in.
Denver, colorado, and one yearshe had a hip replacement and
then a year later she had breastcancer and I said that's it.
(16:27):
My brother lived in Billings,montana.
I'm out here in Minnesota,she's in Denver.
I'm like you're too muchtrouble on your own, you're
coming to live with us.
So, and she didn't live with us, but she's in the same area and
she's like I have no idea whatto do with.
You know 50, 60 years of stuffthat.
(16:52):
I have and they had moved a lot.
Her and my dad had moved a lot.
We grew up in Billings, montana.
When my brother and I both lefthome, they moved to San Diego.
They bounced around San Diegolike two, three different cities
there in the metro area andthen they moved to Denver.
So they did shed some of thatalong the way right, some of the
(17:17):
stuff but, and so I came outand I said I will help you get
this stuff down to just what youneed to move out to Minnesota
with.
And I was like, okay, when wasthe last time you used this?
Speaker 2 (17:39):
And I recognized it.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
It was the same picnic setup that my parents
would take when we would go onroad trips to Yellowstone
National Park.
Right, I'm like I know for afact you haven't even looked at
this in 30, 40 years.
I said why are you keeping it?
Are you keeping it for a reason?
No, Exactly.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
So, yeah, I oh man, Mike, I give you a lot of credit
for doing that is a hard thingto do.
I had to do that when I movedmy mom in and I ended up doing
something that I refer to asreverse decluttering and I
actually have an episode aboutthat on my podcast, and that's
where, when you have somethingwhere you have so much going on,
that's so overwhelming, thenyou think about instead what
(18:28):
space you are trying to createand that would be maybe the new
space you're moving to and youonly take what you want in that
space.
So you focus more on what youwant to keep as opposed to what
you want to remove, and that canbe a little easier.
So we went through my mom'shouse same idea, 40, 50 years
and they were collectors, theyloved to go to auctions and
(18:51):
things like that, so it was asoverwhelming as you're imagining
at this moment.
And so we walked through and Ihad color-coded like index cards
.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Oh, you were much more sophisticated.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Well, this is why I became a professional organizer,
right, but anyhow, the conceptwas still there, which is
walking through and saying,what's jumping out that in your
heart, you're like, I can't bewithout that, I can't move
without that thing, I want thatin my space, you know, with me
using it, honoring it, all that.
(19:26):
And so we, we answered thosequestions and we answered it for
her and for me because it wasmoving into my space and it
became, I mean, quite theproject.
But that reverse declutteringmade it easier.
But your questioning about like, have you used this in a long
time?
Why are you keeping it?
Asking those questions, arethings we don't ask ourselves.
(19:48):
We're just in automatic mode.
We forget we have stuff andsometimes it's the well, I might
use it and all those things.
But the minute you're like, oh,I have to move it now might use
it and all those things, butthe minute you're like, oh, I
have to move it now.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
I tell you, we could all just pretend that we're
gonna move.
We could declutter in a big waypretty fast when she passed in
2015, my brother came out and wewere going through her stuff.
I mean, she had gotten down tolike a one-bedroom apartment and
then a storage area, right, andyou know, there was really no
(20:21):
other.
There were some cousins in thearea, but really nobody who
would be interested in herthings.
I gave away some jewelry that Ithought she would want.
Nothing she never really ownedanything of high value
jewelry-wise, right.
(20:42):
But yeah, we were brutal.
We were brutal cleaning herplace out.
It was like, first of all, theclothes can go.
Second of all, all of this.
You know, I asked some friendsif they wanted silverware and
dinner plates and that kind ofthing.
The woman never cooked.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
So there wasn't a lot there.
There wasn't any pots and pans.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
It's a long story about my mom, but anyway.
But yeah, my brother and I wewere just brutal and I look back
on it afterwards and I went,gee, I wish maybe I hadn't
thrown that away.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
But what am I going to do with it?
Speaker 1 (21:28):
It'll just be there for my kids to throw away when I
go right.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Yeah, it's never easy , especially when you talk about
sentimental decluttering, right, and you have to make the best
choice you can at the best timeand honor that choice, whatever
it is.
And, conversely, one of thethings I tell clients all the
time and I've been on manypodcasts just talking about this
one specific topic is that ifyou come across something where
(21:53):
you aren't sure, even though,like logically, you're like this
is ridiculous, I shouldn't keepthis picnic basket, we're never
going to use it.
If any part of you says I'm notready yet, you honor that and
you keep it.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
You know, but you do the best you can in the moment.
It's weird Whenever it comes tothat kind of decluttering, uh,
caregiving all the things we'retalking about, it's an
impossible situation, so you dowhat you can and you, yeah, you,
you, and be good with it andknow that you did the best you
could.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
I?
I have not had a chance.
There was an episode I wasgoing through your podcast and I
haven't had a chance to listento the episode.
Oh my goodness, it's like anhour long.
Um no cost self-care tips forchronic illness.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Um, no cost self care tips for chronic illness.
Oh yeah, that is what it'sunusual.
Most of the time my guestpodcasts are maybe like 40 ish
minutes and most of the time mysolo episodes are maybe 15 on
average, maybe 20 at the most.
This one is unusual in thatit's longer because it was
specifically for those withchronic illness and she had such
(23:01):
a fantastic list that touchedupon topics that we talked about
on the podcast before.
It was such a great list thatwe had to go through it.
So you know, once you get a top10 or top 11, it goes for a
while, but the best part is thatit's filled with gold.
It's a great ideas.
Best part is that it's filledwith gold.
It's a great ideas, ideas thatwe've talked about before, and
(23:28):
she helped us understand thatwithin the context of self-care
for someone with a chronicillness.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
And I thought that was such an important topic.
Oh for sure, Self-care is soimportant and I think you and I
kind of touched on that when wetalked.
I'd look at my notes, but mycat's sitting on them.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
That's self-care, having a cat.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Self-compassion.
I think you called it.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Yeah, you're right.
You're right.
Self-compassion, self-care,kindness all of that is it's
healing and we need that inorder to be most productive.
Oh, my word, I'm watching thiscat be so sweet and so loving
right now and the nose boops,yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Love it.
Oh boy, you know I locked thedog upstairs.
For this reason, when I'mrecording, are you happy?
Nobody's going to know.
This is an audio podcast.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Well, I'm telling you right now, this cat is adorable
.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
And I can 100% guarantee.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
This cat is also highly satisfied with not only
the love but the disruption.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
Yes, both.
She accomplished two thingswith oh, are you coming back?
Okay, anyway, Because all ofthis kind of ties into kindness,
doesn't it?
And not in a Marie Kondo kindof way.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
I love that you brought her up.
Can I just say somethingquickly about that?
And I say this with all thelove and respect to her.
Her concept of does it spark joyis really good and really
simple and that's the reason whyit became so popular and it
took off like a house of firePun sort of intended for the
spark part, but it was the ideaof ask yourself this question
(25:22):
and create this filter and thenyou answer it.
But I took issue with the factthat it is oversimplified.
For the lives that we have, forthe situations that we're in,
it's all well and good to belike these shorts don't spark
joy, but am I in a financialsituation where I can go buy
others?
Do you need to create a systemthat is super simple and almost
(25:45):
universal?
So the way that I described itwas that my framework is
(26:08):
actually taking her question,plus so many others, that you
need to be asking yourself tomake a better, more informed
choice about the clutteryourself, to make a better, more
informed choice about theclutter Right, and that's why
your service is so much, becauseyou tailor it to a specific
(26:31):
person and, yes, you can affordto go much deeper than does.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
It bring me joy.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Right.
But even on the simplest levelof listening to my podcast or
understanding the framework andkind of trying to do it yourself
, it still involves more detailthan hers and to that point this
connects beautifully to whatwe're talking about with
kindness and compassion.
See, I needed to be productivewhen I was a caregiver.
I needed to be organized, andsome of it I guess I had in me.
(27:07):
You know, we have thesetendencies, we have these
abilities and strengths and Idefinitely had those.
But I can remember that Duringthis really dark time, this
really difficult time, whenpeople would have suggestions
like a Marie Kondo or anyoneelse, to try this, do that or
the just do this kind of thatword just really it brings my
(27:31):
hackles up right.
What I needed more thananything during that time was
compassion.
I needed for that to come frompeople who were trying to give
me suggestions.
I needed to have it come frommyself, because a lot of times
we take on what other peoplesuggest.
Oh, I should be the shoulds.
Right, I should be doing this,I should.
(27:51):
That should be simple.
Why am I not doing this?
Is it something wrong?
Am I lazy?
No, I'm not lazy.
I'm caring for a mother withcognitive decline and two
children who are under the ageof two.
Are you nuts?
There's nothing lazy.
We're problematic about whatI'm doing, and yet we get caught
in this trap of shame and guilt.
And what is it?
So what I needed, probably morethan anything, was not how to
(28:14):
do my to-do list or organize acupboard.
I needed compassion.
I needed to understandself-kindness and self-awareness
and self-acceptance, and that,if you take nothing else away
from this conversation, is thedriving point of how I still
help us.
Do the things, get the stuffdone, achieve our goals is
(28:37):
through that lens.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Yeah, because when we have a problem, there are
usually no shortage of peopletelling you what you should be
doing or how you should be doingit, and really all we need is
for somebody to listen to us.
And you know, I don't know, butthere are compassionate people
(29:06):
out there and I always say onthis podcast you know, the
kindest thing you can do foranother person is not to buy
them a cup of coffee.
It's to say how are you doing?
And then listen, just listen.
How are you really doing?
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Yeah Well, you and I have that in common.
We're like forget the smalltalk.
Yeah, it's a nice day out, butseriously yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Yeah, I know, everything's fine.
How are you really yeah?
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Yeah, everything's fine.
How are you really?
Yeah, yeah, everything's fine.
Everything's burning around you.
The world is literally burningdown, so go ahead and talk to me
about how hot the flames aretoday.
Okay, let's just do this,absolutely.
Yeah, you're right thatlistening ear, but think about
that too to ourselves, that wedo that to ourselves, asking
ourselves how we're doing andreally listening and and is this
(30:00):
working for you?
And, yeah, you're trying to andthis is the context that I
coach in, right, is that we'retrying to quote be productive,
right, to be organized, to setup a system, to try a habit to
do the things, to get the stuffdone, to look at our calendar
and create a calendar that'sgoing to work for us, and then
do the things on the calendarand we're running late and we're
(30:21):
feeling stressed and we'restruggling with all the things
and, yes, we want to keepimproving that and we want to
fix it and we want to do better,and those are all good things.
But also, have we said, hey,hey, how you doing?
No, no, really.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
No, really, and that's just the thing, because
it's actually easier for us tobe compassionate to another
person than to be compassionateto ourselves, isn't it so?
Speaker 2 (30:53):
true.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
So true, it's so much easier to look at another
person and realize they're upset, or realize they're overwhelmed
or stressed out or whatever itis, but when we look at
ourselves in the mirror, wedon't recognize it or see it, or
what.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Or don't allow it.
Sometimes I think, yes, all ofthe above, but I think, don't
allow it.
Just came to my mind becauseit's the.
You're exhausted, but why?
Why can't you do this, it?
I think we default more to the.
I, oh goodness, I've had so manyclients who even come to me and
we go through something thatfeels very logical, very simple,
(31:35):
right, very straightforward tothem very much.
I knew this Right, but it'slike but why couldn't I get
myself to do it?
Or what's wrong with me?
It's, it's, it's again, it'sthat default to.
I did something wrong and Idon't know why we have that in
us.
But well, it's a combination ofthings.
Sometimes it's how we've beentaught, how we've been raised.
(31:55):
Sometimes it's simply thatsociety is built for a specific
kind of productivity and kind ofsystem that not all of us are
built for.
So we feel like outsiders andthe minute that happens, it's
the there's right.
When you don't fit in, it's not.
Oh well, the group wasn't builtfor me, so that's the problem.
(32:17):
It's like like, no, I'm theproblem, it's, it's a default
way that we have of seeingthings, and so that's probably
why my people are the caregivers, are the creatives.
You know, the multi-passionatesare the ones with chronic
illness and definitely theneurodivergent, because they're
always the you know yeah squarepeg, round hole kind of scenario
(32:40):
in in traditional productivityapproaches and the first thought
is I'm doing this wrong and I'mlike no, the thought needs to
be that's wrong for you.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
Let's find the right way and that's the thing with
neurodivergent people, right,because all of they're always
been hearing well, probably not.
If their parents are goodpeople, probably not, but from
peers as they were growing up,more than likely.
Why do you do it that way?
(33:12):
That's so weird, right.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
Right, or teachers who are like you need to do it
this way.
And then sometimes the parents,even if they are kind and they
do understand I have thisthey're going to give words
right, like quirky kid or a kidwho constantly moves, or
whatever it happens to be.
They understand that, they maybe wonderful about it, but then
you have a teacher who is likethey're not paying attention,
they're not doing things the waywe want them to do in this
(33:37):
particular microcosm, and thenas a parent, you want to do
what's right, which is get themthrough school successfully, and
so then you have to kind offorce them.
It's very convoluted and veryunfair in many circumstances,
but that's what we're dealingwith.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
Right right.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
So you work with a lot of neurodivergent.
Yes, yeah, the ADHD is big inmy world.
I live in a sea of ADHD.
My children have it, my husbandhas it.
I diagnosed him.
Actually, I'm not saying Idon't have the credentials to do
so I do have a certification inADHD management but I'm saying
I'm not like a doctor.
(34:15):
But I did figure out based onchecklists.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
I have one at my home , yeah, but I did figure out
based on checklists.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
I play one at my home , yeah, but I do want to add
that those very same people arethe creative, incredibly focused
, incredibly unique, wonderfulpeople who have, I think, the
most amazing superpowers, and soI delight in advocating for
(34:43):
them, in showing them a worldwhere they are doing things we
could never dream of, and all weneed to do is come up with a
few modified systems and they'llstill pay their bills on time
and get to their appointmentswhen they need to and do the
things they need to do, and beproductive and be organized Yay,
but then also keep doing thosemind-blowing things that they do
(35:04):
in the world.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
Yeah, absolutely Absolutely, Lisa.
It was absolutely amazinghaving you on today.
I really appreciate yourinsight into this and there will
be somebody out there and maybeit will only be one person.
Somebody is going to hear yourmessage and go.
(35:26):
That's me.
And if you are that one person,look into the show notes
because you will have Lisa'slink to her website and you can
go work with her.
We'll also have the link forthe podcast in there and, yeah,
(35:49):
you've brought such value tothis show, Thank you.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
Thank you for doing what you do and for bringing
kindness to light, because we doneed this more than ever, and I
really appreciate the platformto share my perspective on
compassion and our focus onmaking sure that we turn it into
ourselves.
So thank you, mike.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Oh, thank you All right.
Enough gushy-gushy stuff, don't, because if you start, I'll
start.
Thanks, lisa, we will talkagain again soon.
Have a great rest of your week.
I want to thank you for takingthis time to listen to this
(36:30):
episode with my guest, lisazarotny, and I hope that you're
able to take something positivefrom the time you spent with us
today.
Maybe you'll be inspired, maybeyou'll be motivated, maybe
you'll be moved.
If you experienced any of thosepositive feelings, please
consider sharing this podcastwith your friends and family.
(36:53):
I'm always striving to offeryou a better podcast, so give me
some feedback.
Let me know how you think I'mdoing, leave me a review on
whatever platform that youlisten to this podcast on.
Send me an email there are somany ways to get a hold of me
and let me know what you thinkabout the podcast, what you
(37:14):
think I'm doing wrong, what youthink I'm doing right, whatever,
and make sure that you'refollowing us on all of our
social media channels.
We're on Facebook, instagram,linkedin, tiktok, youtube.
Just go out and look for us andyou'll find us and go ahead and
subscribe and follow, please.
(37:34):
That would mean the world to us.
This podcast is part of theMayday Media Network.
If you have an idea for apodcast and you need some
production assistance, forexample, or you already have a
podcast and you're looking for asupportive network to join,
check out maydaymedianetworkcomand check out the many different
(37:58):
shows they have, likeAfrocentric Spoiled, my Movie
Generation Mixtape,thetimepalscom.
We will be back next week witha brand new episode and a brand
(38:20):
new amazing guest and we wouldbe honored if you would join us.
You've been listening to theKindness Matters podcast.
I'm your host, mike Rathbun.
Have a great week.
Hello everyone and welcome to the Kindness Matters
podcast.
I'm your host, mike Rathbun.
On this podcast, we promotepositivity, empathy and
compassion because we believethat kindness is alive and well,
and there are people andorganizations that you may not
(00:21):
have heard of in the world,making their communities a
better place for everyone, andwe want you to hear their
stories.
On this podcast, we talk aboutmatters of kindness because
kindness matters.
Hey, hello and welcomeeverybody to the Kindness
(00:41):
Matters podcast.
I am your host, mike Rathbun.
Thank you.
I'm not sure that you out therelistening realize just how much
it means to me that you took 30minutes-ish out of your day and
(01:02):
you chose to listen to thispodcast.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Talk about kindness.
That is an act and you do itbecause you like it and thank
you for that too.
If you hear something on thispodcast and with the guests I
have today, there is absolutelyno doubt in my mind that you're
going to hear something that youabsolutely adore.
You know, feel free to tellyour friends and your relatives
(01:35):
and your co-workers and thatweird guy on the corner about
this podcast and tell them, youknow, you're able to find
someplace to go and listen touplifting, light content.
That and that's a rare thing inthis world today, isn't it?
So please share, share, share.
Talk about okay, since I wastalking about my guest, my guest
(01:59):
today is Lisa Zerotny.
Did I do that right?
I did that right.
I got it right, lisa, yeah, ohyeah, you did.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Oh, okay.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Boy, I didn't hear you for a second.
I thought I messed it up.
Lisa is the founder ofPositively Productive Systems
and the host of the PositivelyLiving podcast, and I could try
to tell you what she's beenthrough in her life and how she
(02:33):
got to where she is today, but Iwould not do that story justice
, so I'm going to leave that onefor Lisa.
Thank you for coming on theshow today.
Lisa, Thank you so much forbeing here and welcome.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Thank you so much, mike.
I am delighted to be here.
You are so right.
Kindness is what we need toseek out every chance we get.
You know the saying all youneed is love, and kindness is
right there with it.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
I just went to Love Actually.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Love that movie.
Exactly, you knew I wasthinking that because you know
music lyrics.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
I didn't know you were thinking that, but okay,
yeah, and so now you are a coach.
Is that correct?
That's correct, a coach as wellas a podcaster.
But there was something thatmade you be a coach, but you had
(03:36):
to go through a lot to getthere, right?
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Tell us all about it.
Spill the tea girl.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Okay, and I do call myself a productivity coach,
probably because the wordproductivity is a thing that we
understand, or at least weunderstand that we want, and I'm
out to do it differently.
I'm out to do it withcompassion.
So I just wanted to set thestage, because that's where we
connected with the idea ofcompassion and kindness, and why
(04:04):
does that matter?
Where we connected with theidea of compassion and kindness,
and why does that matter?
So, yes, let's back up and I'lldo my best to give you, in a
nutshell, my origin story ofthis, and it is that all
superheroes need one I'd like tothink so, right, uh, I look
good in a cape.
But you know, uh, don't we all?
Uh, because we are heroes ofour own journey here.
And so I'll tell you mine,which is that I was a caregiver
(04:27):
for my mom.
She had Alzheimer's and I caredfor her for close to five years
, while at the same time goingthrough two pregnancies, so
having two kiddos, and at onepoint I had an infant, a toddler
, and a mom, not really sure whoI was sundowning and doing all
(04:47):
the things that happen with anadvanced kind of cognitive
decline.
And yeah, I don't.
Sometimes I struggle todescribe this because I'm an
inherently very positive person.
I can look back at this withgratitude.
I know that it was a gift to meto reframe my life and my
(05:10):
appreciation for life and to putme on the path to where I am as
difficult if not more than whatyou think.
It was based on hearing thosewords, understanding the disease
(05:31):
that she had, the fact that shewas my mom, that, during a time
in which I would have loved tohave help from my mom, instead I
needed to care for her as well.
It nearly broke me.
It didn't, but it nearly did.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Yeah, yeah, I can't imagine being that person.
It's so tough I mean doublytough for you, because you don't
have just one person to takecare of.
You've got three at least right, two babies and a husband.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Yes of.
You've got three at least rightTwo babies and a husband.
Yes, he's an amazing guy, buthe had to help take care of us
too.
In his own way, he was workingdaily.
We had a business we weretrying to run.
We were barely getting by,despite the fact that we gave
everything we had.
So you're right.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Yeah, oh, and then you got the business to take
care of.
Did we talk about what that was?
Speaker 2 (06:30):
No, actually he and I had a wedding photography
business, so he had his day jobIT guy.
We had a wedding photographybusiness and that we eventually
had to.
You know, just sort of.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Sacrifices had to be made?
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Yeah, exactly, so we had to move on from that.
We did the best that we couldduring the course of time, but
there was a time when I wascaring for mom, had had a baby
and was still a weddingphotographer and just trying to
juggle all of it and eventuallywe we made a shift, but then
that, of course, was a financialhit for us.
(07:06):
So, yeah, these were all thethings that we were juggling and
it it was at times, asimpossible as it sounds yeah,
that is a lot of plates in theair, wow, because, yeah, and I
mean I've started a business.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
I know myself how what that's like and I can't
imagine all those other layerson top of it.
And you say something on yourwebsite that I thought was where
(07:45):
was it?
I don't know.
You talk about um after, afterall, that was over, and you
looked around and you went whoa,and I'm I'm putting it in a
(08:06):
nutshell, I think, but talkabout that a little bit, because
that's really the direct linefrom where you are today to
where you were back then.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Right, so, setting the scene right, we have the
caregiving which is survivalmode, and what happens in
survival mode.
You basically jettisoneverything that is a negotiable
and everything that you're likeI can deal with later or not
deal with or ignore or pretendit doesn't exist in some fashion
(08:39):
and I'll catch up with thatlater and even sometimes some
things that you really did needto tend to.
You have to prioritize, youhave to, you have to prioritize
surviving and sometimes your ownrest or your own whatever, and
I wasn't even doing a lot ofthose things.
So when my mom passed and thatpart of the caregiving was over
(09:01):
still had the kiddos, but atleast it was less than and when
you're that overwhelmed, thatactually feels a bit more
realistic.
There was something in me thatsaid you have stuff to deal with
Because there was also thisother part.
That's very normal for us, Ithink, to do this when we are in
a life transition, when we'rechanging, when something, when a
(09:24):
chapter closes, we're likewhat's next?
What do we have to do?
Or, you know, trying to getback to what you did.
You know it's all of thesetendencies and I had those
thoughts like do I get a job now?
What do I do and thank goodnessI said, whoa, like that's a lot
piled up around me, like evenphysicallyins of paperwork, of
(09:45):
mail that came in.
I'm not the bills, we took careof what we had to but again
tons of things that weren'taddressed and I thought I really
need to clear a path.
I need to clean out and sort oftake stock of where my life is,
and I wasn't even thinkingconsciously about the fact that
(10:05):
that would also allow me toprocess where I was as a person,
as a caregiver, as someone whohas a change in their role, if
you will.
I hadn't even thought aboutwhat that would mean for
processing grief and all thoseother things.
So this is a little bit offoreshadowing, right For what
happened when I started to clearthat path and it was the most
(10:28):
basic form of decluttering, butit's how I learned decluttering
is so incredibly healing and Ikept taking these steps,
clearing a path, realizing sixmonths down the road I kind of
realized I haven't properlygrieved for my mom.
It was very complex becausewhen you're so relieved to not
have to do more than you'recapable of, you know you're kind
(10:52):
of in this almost disassociatedkind of state.
So this whole process ofcleaning out, clearing out, you
know, taking stock of where I am, where I was and even where I'm
going was so incredibly healingthat I thought, okay, this is
amazing, I want to help otherpeople do this.
(11:13):
I started having conversationsand I can remember my first
client saying I want todeclutter too.
Can you help me do what youjust did for your family?
And I was like of course I can.
And we were having a cup ofcoffee, just checking in and she
was saying how overwhelmed shewas with the stuff.
And that led me to become aprofessional organizer and help
(11:34):
people declutter and open uptheir spaces in their world.
And to take it one step furtherthe minute I walked into
someone's home and got to knowthem and took their trust in me
which still means walked intosomeone's home and got to know
them and took their trust in me,which still means so much.
I'm so honored to have had that.
The minute I saw that it wasn'tjust about the stuff yeah, the
(11:54):
stuff is there but, that stuffcame from somewhere.
Where did it come from?
The head and the heart, yeah,and it hit me.
I was like, oh, that is why Iwanted to become a coach,
because I figured if we couldget there first, everything else
will work itself out, and Iabsolutely believe it does, and
(12:15):
for years I've been working withpeople.
Now Organizing and declutteringis definitely part of the
process a lot more virtual now,but that is 100%.
What happens is that when youget to your head and your heart,
you deal with your grief, youdeal with your trauma, you
understand how you work, youhonor your passions, you live in
a very full and honest andauthentic and kind way.
(12:39):
You will clean out the mess.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
It will resolve itself is that, just is it.
And I, I know people, and whenwe talk about declaring we're,
we're talking about figurativelyand literally, right, right.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Yeah, I'm so glad that you said that.
So it started with the physical.
I was a professional organizer,I would go in.
We're dealing with a crazyliving room or a bedroom or a
kitchen that you can't functionin, or whatever.
It was actual physical rooms.
But I realized with the headand the heart that there's so
much clutter that happens in ourlife.
(13:20):
So what I refer to is wholelife decluttering.
It's absolutely figurative, orit's intangible, if you will.
It's mental, it's emotional.
We have clutter in all aspectsof our lives, but the good news
is that understanding how todeal with it actually across the
board is very similar.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
That understanding how to deal with it actually
across the board is very similar.
Oh really, mm-hmm Just and I'veheard this before from friends
and family you know when youlook at something and you're
looking at all.
You're looking at all of it.
You know, and it's sooverwhelming to think about.
(13:59):
You know where do I start andyou know the best advice I ever
got was when you have a problemor when you have a situation,
start in one place, clean it up,get it done and then move on.
Is that the advice you give, ordoes it have any validity?
Speaker 2 (14:23):
It has validity.
It may not exactly be what Igive, although I can understand
the benefit of it.
So if it feels like somethingthat you need and that's a big
part of how I work as a coach isunderstanding you personally
and how you work best right.
So if it's something you need,the reason why that would work
is because, well, there's anumber of reasons.
(14:45):
One is taking action reducesour anxiety Always a good thing,
right, okay.
And number two would be thatwhen you take action, just like
when you are starting a habit,you build momentum.
When you take action, just likewhen you are starting a habit,
you build momentum, and thatmomentum builds your muscle for
the decluttering gets you usedto it.
It encourages you because youcan start to see progress.
(15:06):
It does all the thingspsychologically that you need to
move forward.
So I think it's a very validsuggestion.
Now, what I tend to suggest ismore of a framework.
I actually created a frameworkcalled the simple system,
because I like that idea of itreally is simple and we're
(15:26):
making it too complicated withoh, do we have to buy bins and
organizers, or how do I treat myto-do list, or wherever the
clutter is?
It really comes down tosimplifying why you're doing it
in the first place.
Now, it's not always easy to doit or easy to make the
(15:47):
decisions, but making thosedecisions create what I call
filters in your life.
Those filters tell you whatbelongs and what doesn't.
And once you know what belongsand what doesn't, think about
how simple decluttering becomes.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Yeah, I mean yeah, and speaking on a literal
declutter level.
Years and years ago, my mom wasliving by herself out in.
Denver, colorado, and one yearshe had a hip replacement and
then a year later she had breastcancer and I said that's it.
(16:27):
My brother lived in Billings,montana.
I'm out here in Minnesota,she's in Denver.
I'm like you're too muchtrouble on your own, you're
coming to live with us.
So, and she didn't live with us, but she's in the same area and
she's like I have no idea whatto do with.
You know 50, 60 years of stuffthat.
(16:52):
I have and they had moved a lot.
Her and my dad had moved a lot.
We grew up in Billings, montana.
When my brother and I both lefthome, they moved to San Diego.
They bounced around San Diegolike two, three different cities
there in the metro area andthen they moved to Denver.
So they did shed some of thatalong the way right, some of the
(17:17):
stuff but, and so I came outand I said I will help you get
this stuff down to just what youneed to move out to Minnesota
with.
And I was like, okay, when wasthe last time you used this?
Speaker 2 (17:39):
And I recognized it.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
It was the same picnic setup that my parents
would take when we would go onroad trips to Yellowstone
National Park.
Right, I'm like I know for afact you haven't even looked at
this in 30, 40 years.
I said why are you keeping it?
Are you keeping it for a reason?
No, Exactly.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
So, yeah, I oh man, Mike, I give you a lot of credit
for doing that is a hard thingto do.
I had to do that when I movedmy mom in and I ended up doing
something that I refer to asreverse decluttering and I
actually have an episode aboutthat on my podcast, and that's
where, when you have somethingwhere you have so much going on,
that's so overwhelming, thenyou think about instead what
(18:28):
space you are trying to createand that would be maybe the new
space you're moving to and youonly take what you want in that
space.
So you focus more on what youwant to keep as opposed to what
you want to remove, and that canbe a little easier.
So we went through my mom'shouse same idea, 40, 50 years
and they were collectors, theyloved to go to auctions and
(18:51):
things like that, so it was asoverwhelming as you're imagining
at this moment.
And so we walked through and Ihad color-coded like index cards
.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Oh, you were much more sophisticated.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Well, this is why I became a professional organizer,
right, but anyhow, the conceptwas still there, which is
walking through and saying,what's jumping out that in your
heart, you're like, I can't bewithout that, I can't move
without that thing, I want thatin my space, you know, with me
using it, honoring it, all that.
(19:26):
And so we, we answered thosequestions and we answered it for
her and for me because it wasmoving into my space and it
became, I mean, quite theproject.
But that reverse declutteringmade it easier.
But your questioning about like, have you used this in a long
time?
Why are you keeping it?
Asking those questions, arethings we don't ask ourselves.
(19:48):
We're just in automatic mode.
We forget we have stuff andsometimes it's the well, I might
use it and all those things.
But the minute you're like, oh,I have to move it now might use
it and all those things, butthe minute you're like, oh, I
have to move it now.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
I tell you, we could all just pretend that we're
gonna move.
We could declutter in a big waypretty fast when she passed in
2015, my brother came out and wewere going through her stuff.
I mean, she had gotten down tolike a one-bedroom apartment and
then a storage area, right, andyou know, there was really no
(20:21):
other.
There were some cousins in thearea, but really nobody who
would be interested in herthings.
I gave away some jewelry that Ithought she would want.
Nothing she never really ownedanything of high value
jewelry-wise, right.
(20:42):
But yeah, we were brutal.
We were brutal cleaning herplace out.
It was like, first of all, theclothes can go.
Second of all, all of this.
You know, I asked some friendsif they wanted silverware and
dinner plates and that kind ofthing.
The woman never cooked.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
So there wasn't a lot there.
There wasn't any pots and pans.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
It's a long story about my mom, but anyway.
But yeah, my brother and I wewere just brutal and I look back
on it afterwards and I went,gee, I wish maybe I hadn't
thrown that away.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
But what am I going to do with it?
Speaker 1 (21:28):
It'll just be there for my kids to throw away when I
go right.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Yeah, it's never easy , especially when you talk about
sentimental decluttering, right, and you have to make the best
choice you can at the best timeand honor that choice, whatever
it is.
And, conversely, one of thethings I tell clients all the
time and I've been on manypodcasts just talking about this
one specific topic is that ifyou come across something where
(21:53):
you aren't sure, even though,like logically, you're like this
is ridiculous, I shouldn't keepthis picnic basket, we're never
going to use it.
If any part of you says I'm notready yet, you honor that and
you keep it.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
You know, but you do the best you can in the moment.
It's weird Whenever it comes tothat kind of decluttering, uh,
caregiving all the things we'retalking about, it's an
impossible situation, so you dowhat you can and you, yeah, you,
you, and be good with it andknow that you did the best you
could.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
I?
I have not had a chance.
There was an episode I wasgoing through your podcast and I
haven't had a chance to listento the episode.
Oh my goodness, it's like anhour long.
Um no cost self-care tips forchronic illness.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Um, no cost self care tips for chronic illness.
Oh yeah, that is what it'sunusual.
Most of the time my guestpodcasts are maybe like 40 ish
minutes and most of the time mysolo episodes are maybe 15 on
average, maybe 20 at the most.
This one is unusual in thatit's longer because it was
specifically for those withchronic illness and she had such
(23:01):
a fantastic list that touchedupon topics that we talked about
on the podcast before.
It was such a great list thatwe had to go through it.
So you know, once you get a top10 or top 11, it goes for a
while, but the best part is thatit's filled with gold.
It's a great ideas.
Best part is that it's filledwith gold.
It's a great ideas, ideas thatwe've talked about before, and
(23:28):
she helped us understand thatwithin the context of self-care
for someone with a chronicillness.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
And I thought that was such an important topic.
Oh for sure, Self-care is soimportant and I think you and I
kind of touched on that when wetalked.
I'd look at my notes, but mycat's sitting on them.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
That's self-care, having a cat.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Self-compassion.
I think you called it.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Yeah, you're right.
You're right.
Self-compassion, self-care,kindness all of that is it's
healing and we need that inorder to be most productive.
Oh, my word, I'm watching thiscat be so sweet and so loving
right now and the nose boops,yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Love it.
Oh boy, you know I locked thedog upstairs.
For this reason, when I'mrecording, are you happy?
Nobody's going to know.
This is an audio podcast.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Well, I'm telling you right now, this cat is adorable
.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
And I can 100% guarantee.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
This cat is also highly satisfied with not only
the love but the disruption.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
Yes, both.
She accomplished two thingswith oh, are you coming back?
Okay, anyway, Because all ofthis kind of ties into kindness,
doesn't it?
And not in a Marie Kondo kindof way.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
I love that you brought her up.
Can I just say somethingquickly about that?
And I say this with all thelove and respect to her.
Her concept of does it spark joyis really good and really
simple and that's the reason whyit became so popular and it
took off like a house of firePun sort of intended for the
spark part, but it was the ideaof ask yourself this question
(25:22):
and create this filter and thenyou answer it.
But I took issue with the factthat it is oversimplified.
For the lives that we have, forthe situations that we're in,
it's all well and good to belike these shorts don't spark
joy, but am I in a financialsituation where I can go buy
others?
Do you need to create a systemthat is super simple and almost
(25:45):
universal?
So the way that I described itwas that my framework is
(26:08):
actually taking her question,plus so many others, that you
need to be asking yourself tomake a better, more informed
choice about the clutteryourself, to make a better, more
informed choice about theclutter Right, and that's why
your service is so much, becauseyou tailor it to a specific
(26:31):
person and, yes, you can affordto go much deeper than does.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
It bring me joy.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Right.
But even on the simplest levelof listening to my podcast or
understanding the framework andkind of trying to do it yourself
, it still involves more detailthan hers and to that point this
connects beautifully to whatwe're talking about with
kindness and compassion.
See, I needed to be productivewhen I was a caregiver.
I needed to be organized, andsome of it I guess I had in me.
(27:07):
You know, we have thesetendencies, we have these
abilities and strengths and Idefinitely had those.
But I can remember that Duringthis really dark time, this
really difficult time, whenpeople would have suggestions
like a Marie Kondo or anyoneelse, to try this, do that or
the just do this kind of thatword just really it brings my
(27:31):
hackles up right.
What I needed more thananything during that time was
compassion.
I needed for that to come frompeople who were trying to give
me suggestions.
I needed to have it come frommyself, because a lot of times
we take on what other peoplesuggest.
Oh, I should be the shoulds.
Right, I should be doing this,I should.
(27:51):
That should be simple.
Why am I not doing this?
Is it something wrong?
Am I lazy?
No, I'm not lazy.
I'm caring for a mother withcognitive decline and two
children who are under the ageof two.
Are you nuts?
There's nothing lazy.
We're problematic about whatI'm doing, and yet we get caught
in this trap of shame and guilt.
And what is it?
So what I needed, probably morethan anything, was not how to
(28:14):
do my to-do list or organize acupboard.
I needed compassion.
I needed to understandself-kindness and self-awareness
and self-acceptance, and that,if you take nothing else away
from this conversation, is thedriving point of how I still
help us.
Do the things, get the stuffdone, achieve our goals is
(28:37):
through that lens.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Yeah, because when we have a problem, there are
usually no shortage of peopletelling you what you should be
doing or how you should be doingit, and really all we need is
for somebody to listen to us.
And you know, I don't know, butthere are compassionate people
(29:06):
out there and I always say onthis podcast you know, the
kindest thing you can do foranother person is not to buy
them a cup of coffee.
It's to say how are you doing?
And then listen, just listen.
How are you really doing?
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Yeah Well, you and I have that in common.
We're like forget the smalltalk.
Yeah, it's a nice day out, butseriously yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Yeah, I know, everything's fine.
How are you really yeah?
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Yeah, everything's fine.
How are you really?
Yeah, yeah, everything's fine.
Everything's burning around you.
The world is literally burningdown, so go ahead and talk to me
about how hot the flames aretoday.
Okay, let's just do this,absolutely.
Yeah, you're right thatlistening ear, but think about
that too to ourselves, that wedo that to ourselves, asking
ourselves how we're doing andreally listening and and is this
(30:00):
working for you?
And, yeah, you're trying to andthis is the context that I
coach in, right, is that we'retrying to quote be productive,
right, to be organized, to setup a system, to try a habit to
do the things, to get the stuffdone, to look at our calendar
and create a calendar that'sgoing to work for us, and then
do the things on the calendarand we're running late and we're
(30:21):
feeling stressed and we'restruggling with all the things
and, yes, we want to keepimproving that and we want to
fix it and we want to do better,and those are all good things.
But also, have we said, hey,hey, how you doing?
No, no, really.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
No, really, and that's just the thing, because
it's actually easier for us tobe compassionate to another
person than to be compassionateto ourselves, isn't it so?
Speaker 2 (30:53):
true.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
So true, it's so much easier to look at another
person and realize they're upset, or realize they're overwhelmed
or stressed out or whatever itis, but when we look at
ourselves in the mirror, wedon't recognize it or see it, or
what.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Or don't allow it.
Sometimes I think, yes, all ofthe above, but I think, don't
allow it.
Just came to my mind becauseit's the.
You're exhausted, but why?
Why can't you do this, it?
I think we default more to the.
I, oh goodness, I've had so manyclients who even come to me and
we go through something thatfeels very logical, very simple,
(31:35):
right, very straightforward tothem very much.
I knew this Right, but it'slike but why couldn't I get
myself to do it?
Or what's wrong with me?
It's, it's, it's again, it'sthat default to.
I did something wrong and Idon't know why we have that in
us.
But well, it's a combination ofthings.
Sometimes it's how we've beentaught, how we've been raised.
(31:55):
Sometimes it's simply thatsociety is built for a specific
kind of productivity and kind ofsystem that not all of us are
built for.
So we feel like outsiders andthe minute that happens, it's
the there's right.
When you don't fit in, it's not.
Oh well, the group wasn't builtfor me, so that's the problem.
(32:17):
It's like like, no, I'm theproblem, it's, it's a default
way that we have of seeingthings, and so that's probably
why my people are the caregivers, are the creatives.
You know, the multi-passionatesare the ones with chronic
illness and definitely theneurodivergent, because they're
always the you know yeah squarepeg, round hole kind of scenario
(32:40):
in in traditional productivityapproaches and the first thought
is I'm doing this wrong and I'mlike no, the thought needs to
be that's wrong for you.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
Let's find the right way and that's the thing with
neurodivergent people, right,because all of they're always
been hearing well, probably not.
If their parents are goodpeople, probably not, but from
peers as they were growing up,more than likely.
Why do you do it that way?
(33:12):
That's so weird, right.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
Right, or teachers who are like you need to do it
this way.
And then sometimes the parents,even if they are kind and they
do understand I have thisthey're going to give words
right, like quirky kid or a kidwho constantly moves, or
whatever it happens to be.
They understand that, they maybe wonderful about it, but then
you have a teacher who is likethey're not paying attention,
they're not doing things the waywe want them to do in this
(33:37):
particular microcosm, and thenas a parent, you want to do
what's right, which is get themthrough school successfully, and
so then you have to kind offorce them.
It's very convoluted and veryunfair in many circumstances,
but that's what we're dealingwith.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
Right right.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
So you work with a lot of neurodivergent.
Yes, yeah, the ADHD is big inmy world.
I live in a sea of ADHD.
My children have it, my husbandhas it.
I diagnosed him.
Actually, I'm not saying Idon't have the credentials to do
so I do have a certification inADHD management but I'm saying
I'm not like a doctor.
(34:15):
But I did figure out based onchecklists.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
I have one at my home , yeah, but I did figure out
based on checklists.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
I play one at my home , yeah, but I do want to add
that those very same people arethe creative, incredibly focused
, incredibly unique, wonderfulpeople who have, I think, the
most amazing superpowers, and soI delight in advocating for
(34:43):
them, in showing them a worldwhere they are doing things we
could never dream of, and all weneed to do is come up with a
few modified systems and they'llstill pay their bills on time
and get to their appointmentswhen they need to and do the
things they need to do, and beproductive and be organized Yay,
but then also keep doing thosemind-blowing things that they do
(35:04):
in the world.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
Yeah, absolutely Absolutely, Lisa.
It was absolutely amazinghaving you on today.
I really appreciate yourinsight into this and there will
be somebody out there and maybeit will only be one person.
Somebody is going to hear yourmessage and go.
(35:26):
That's me.
And if you are that one person,look into the show notes
because you will have Lisa'slink to her website and you can
go work with her.
We'll also have the link forthe podcast in there and, yeah,
(35:49):
you've brought such value tothis show, Thank you.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
Thank you for doing what you do and for bringing
kindness to light, because we doneed this more than ever, and I
really appreciate the platformto share my perspective on
compassion and our focus onmaking sure that we turn it into
ourselves.
So thank you, mike.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Oh, thank you All right.
Enough gushy-gushy stuff, don't, because if you start, I'll
start.
Thanks, lisa, we will talkagain again soon.
Have a great rest of your week.
I want to thank you for takingthis time to listen to this
(36:30):
episode with my guest, lisazarotny, and I hope that you're
able to take something positivefrom the time you spent with us
today.
Maybe you'll be inspired, maybeyou'll be motivated, maybe
you'll be moved.
If you experienced any of thosepositive feelings, please
consider sharing this podcastwith your friends and family.
(36:53):
I'm always striving to offeryou a better podcast, so give me
some feedback.
Let me know how you think I'mdoing, leave me a review on
whatever platform that youlisten to this podcast on.
Send me an email there are somany ways to get a hold of me
and let me know what you thinkabout the podcast, what you
(37:14):
think I'm doing wrong, what youthink I'm doing right, whatever,
and make sure that you'refollowing us on all of our
social media channels.
We're on Facebook, instagram,linkedin, tiktok, youtube.
Just go out and look for us andyou'll find us and go ahead and
subscribe and follow, please.
(37:34):
That would mean the world to us.
This podcast is part of theMayday Media Network.
If you have an idea for apodcast and you need some
production assistance, forexample, or you already have a
podcast and you're looking for asupportive network to join,
check out maydaymedianetworkcomand check out the many different
(37:58):
shows they have, likeAfrocentric Spoiled, my Movie
Generation Mixtape,thetimepalscom.
We will be back next week witha brand new episode and a brand
(38:20):
new amazing guest and we wouldbe honored if you would join us.
You've been listening to theKindness Matters podcast.
I'm your host, mike Rathbun.
Have a great week.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!