October 2, 2025 • 41 mins
What happens when kindness goes wrong? When James Francisco Bonilla was legally blind, well-meaning strangers pulled him into busy intersections, walked him into call boxes, and nearly guided him off cliffs – all while trying to "help." These harrowing yet illuminating experiences form just part of his remarkable journey from a visually impaired Puerto Rican child facing racial discrimination to becoming a nationally recognized social justice educator.
Born with congenital cataracts and losing most of his remaining vision after a racially motivated assault at age nine, Bonilla's world changed dramatically when groundbreaking ultrasonic surgery restored partial sight to his right eye at nineteen. This physical transformation paralleled his growing awareness of social injustice, propelling him into the early disability rights movement of the 1970s. Through sit-ins and advocacy work, he confronted systems that routinely marginalized people with disabilities – including a counselor who tried steering him toward running a newspaper kiosk rather than pursuing higher education.
"I was more disabled by my environment and social discrimination than by my physical blindness," Bonilla explains, challenging us to reconsider how society creates barriers beyond physical limitations. His powerful perspective emerges from navigating multiple identities: as a bilingual Puerto Rican child mistakenly placed in "slow classes" by nuns who viewed his accent as a speech impediment, as a legally blind person constantly underestimated, and as someone grappling with family mental illness.
Perhaps most transformative was Bonilla's discovery of healing through nature – encounters with great horned owls and coyotes gave him "a sense that I was not alone when I felt the most alone." This connection with the natural world ultimately guided him toward both personal healing and environmental advocacy.
Looking for an inspiring memoir that challenges conventional narratives about disability? Pre-order Bonilla's "An Eye for an I: Growing Up with Blindness, Bigotry and Family Mental Illness," releasing November 4th from University of Minnesota Press. As he powerfully states, "blindness didn't just happen to me, it happened for me" – a profound reframing that invites us all to reconsider our understanding of adversity, kindness, and true social justice.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everyone and welcome to the Kindness Matters
podcast.
I'm your host, mike Rathbun.
On this podcast, we promotepositivity, empathy and
compassion because we believethat kindness is alive and well,
and there are people andorganizations that you may not
(00:21):
have heard of in the world,making their communities a
better place for everyone, andwe want you to hear their
stories.
On this podcast, we talk aboutmatters of kindness because
kindness matters.
Hey, hello and welcomeeverybody to the Kindness
Matters podcast.
I am your host, mike Rathbun.
(00:42):
I hope you're doing well, Ihope you're having a fantastic
week and I hope you're beingkind.
Remember that if you would likea little bit of kindness, a
little bit of uplifting news, alittle bit of positivity in your
email box every month, pleasedon't forget to subscribe to the
Kindness Matters podcastnewsletter.
You can do that.
(01:02):
There's a link in the shownotes at the end.
I like to highlight people whoare making a positive difference
in this world, and you can bepart of that as well, just by
subscribing.
My guest today is reallyawesome.
His name is James FranciscoBonilla.
He is a New York-born PuertoRican writer and retired
(01:25):
professor emeritus of culturalcompetence and leadership at
Hamlin University in St Paul,minnesota.
James was born with congenitalcataracts and has never had
sight in his left eye.
Following a racially motivatedassault at the age of nine, he
lost much of his remaining sightin the right eye.
(01:46):
Ten years later, a medicalbreakthrough restored the sight
to his right eye and, searchingfor relief and inspiration, he
discovered unexpected solace inthe natural world, which led him
toward both personal healingand advocacy work.
Because of his experiences,james was drawn into the early
(02:07):
disability rights movement,which later helped ground him's
work as a nationally recognizedsocial justice educator and
environmentalist.
James received his doctoraldegree from the University of
Massachusetts Amherst School ofEducation in Organizational
Leadership.
That's easy for me to say.
No, it's not.
(02:27):
He is a former chair of theFaculty Advisory Committee to
the National Conference onRacial and Ethnic Diversity in
American Higher Education.
He's made hundreds ofpresentations to universities,
conferences and human serviceorganizations in the area of
diversity, including outdooreducation and environmental
(02:49):
programs.
His memoir An Eye for an EyeGrowing Up with Blindness,
bigotry and Family MentalIllness is set to be released by
the University of MinnesotaPress on November 4th.
In it, he invites readers toempathize and consider their own
potential to be of service in abroken, beautiful world.
(03:09):
So very nice to have you here,james.
I really, really appreciate you.
When our mutual friend, debHoltz suggested you, and part of
her selling point was the factthat you're blind, and I was
(03:30):
kind of thinking that the wholeepisode might be kind of about
that.
But really there's so very muchmore to your story that
involves kindness, isn't there?
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I tried to write it so that itwould not be sort of the
one-dimensional.
Here's a disabled person whosuffers, who overcomes, and blah
, blah, blah, because I thinkthat's.
That's unfortunately a tropethat happens often for disabled
people.
They don't you, they're notseen beyond their disability,
(04:07):
and I was really interested inexploring the connection between
my being having been.
Now.
You know that I had surgerywhen I was 19,.
Right?
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Okay, go ahead.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Okay, no, I I was.
I was initially interested inexploring the relationship of
being legally blind for thatdecade to being Puerto Rican
similarities and differences andthen, in the process, I ended
up writing about family mentalillness, including my own, and
(04:41):
it was like I didn't know that Iwas going in that direction.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
So there it was like I didn't know that I was going
in that direction.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
So there it was, you know, so it's a complex.
Yeah, it's complex it is.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
there's nothing about life that is not complex, right
?
Yeah, yeah, um, because, and Ialluded, yeah, and I alluded to
this, I think, in the intro,because you were born with
genital cataracts in your lefteye, just your left eye.
Right, they were in both eyes,but the one in my left eye was
quite big so I couldn't see outof it.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
But I had one in my right eye.
When I got hit, rather thantake me immediately to the
hospital, the good brothers leftme in the infirmary for three
days and that's where it got theblood thickened up, the
cataract, so badly that Icouldn't see.
Once I was done there, Icouldn't see the big E in the
eye chart.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Yeah, oh, wow, yeah, Even I can see that and that's
saying a lot, yeah, so, and thatwhole horseshoe to the eye
thing, that was a I was going tosay a racial Nine-year-olds,
(06:03):
really understand their behavior.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
I mean, they clearly absorb messages.
So this kid, I was kicking hisbutt in horseshoes and when I
came out I was looking for ahorseshoe underneath a stairwell
, which was very dark, and whenI came out he had actually found
it and he whipped it at my facesaying catch, spick found it.
(06:28):
And he whipped it at my facesaying catch, spick.
And you know, because I had notreally adjusted, I caught it
with my one good eye and thatset into motion a whole series
of events that that led to mybeing legally blind for the next
decade wow, that's crazy.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
And what was this?
Speaker 2 (06:50):
this is pretty amazing, you know, because they
couldn't do surgery on youngpeople with cataracts, because
the fibers that held the lens ofthe eye on were very thick and
hard when you're young.
Yeah, okay, they could.
They could do it with old folkslike us now, but they couldn't
do it with young people.
(07:11):
And then they came up with thisnew approach, using ultrasonic
sound, so not to gross out yourlisteners, but basically they
had a vibe they had a vibratingwand that basically shattered
the lens of my right eye andthey had a teeny little vacuum
that vacuumed it out and withthe vacuum and the lens went the
(07:35):
cataract.
So I was given a contact.
Now it's like you're in and outone day, it's all laser.
Poof, poof, poof, poof and boom, you're done.
They can't do the contact andthey implant it now.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
So that's, that's incredible, um.
But and so this whole, all ofyour combined experiences, kind
of led you to and again I thinkI talked about that a little bit
(08:15):
in the intro how it this kindof drew you to nature.
That nature is where you foundhealing, right from, yes,
everything in your life, um,from the discrimination you were
facing, the blindness well andand some mental health issues.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Great if it was just my mom.
It was primarily my mom and, um, you know, uh, yeah, so I ended
up, uh, going outdoors whenthings would get really bad,
yeah, and that's where I foundsolace and I found, you know,
spirits and nature in the formof animals that, just you know,
(09:05):
really blessed me.
You know, in the book I talkabout being in the woods and
great horned owl would land in atree next to me, or walking
down a trail and a coyote or atleast I could tell it was a
coyote because of the color ofthe eyes in my flashlight would
fall.
So it it.
It gave me a sense that I wasnot alone when I felt the most
(09:29):
alone yeah, yeah, oh, for sure.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
Uh, that's, that's amazing.
Um, and then it all led youinto um, all of that, all those
experiences kind of led you intoyou.
You went to college, you got adoctoral degree from University
(10:01):
of Mass Way before that.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
I mean, I had quite a gap between finishing my
undergraduate work and I hadsurgery done on me when I was 19
and I got the site back but Ihad already sort of got into
this track of working withdisabled populations.
But I had already sort of gotinto this track of working with
disabled populations.
So there's a great film calledCrip Camp that was done by the
(10:24):
Obamas about this camp inupstate New York for disabled
young people, and a lot of thoseyoung people ended up being
leaders in the emergingdisability rights movement in
the 1970s.
I ended up working at that camp, and so that's how.
And then, like a lot of them,when I finished my stint at the
(10:51):
camp, I moved to California,which is really where it was
happening around disabilityrights issues.
I had my second sit in there.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Right.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
I had that was.
That would have been 1976 or 77.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
What year was that?
Was that?
Well, I don't know the 70s werethe best times for protests,
weren't they?
Yeah, yeah, but it was in the60s.
Do it, and ironically, it wasin a really progressive
governor's office.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
We took over his office, jerry brown, in his
first stint as governor ofcalifornia, in many ways a very
progressive guy, but it'sanother example of how
disability issues just fallunder the radar and just just
you know, he was always fiscallyconservative and he cut funds
for transportation for disabledpeople.
(11:44):
Now, if you're in a wheelchairor you're blind, you need
transportation, I mean.
So we ended up taking over hisoffice, but it was just sort of
ironic that one of the mostprogressive governors in history
were the one that we had totake over his office.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
Yeah, for sure I remember, did he not run how
many runs for president?
Did he make One or two, I?
Think 76, I think he ran, Idon't know.
Yeah, I can't, that's, I'm notthat old, I can't remember that
far back you know my line is Iknow, here's my line, you can
(12:22):
use it.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
As I get older, I get better looking, but my memory
gets worse.
But I can live with that.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
You know it's OK, Exactly so feel free to use that
line anytime.
I paraphrase that a lot yeah,so, okay, so this was now.
Was that before or after?
That was before you went to getyour doctoral degree?
(12:50):
Oh yeah, well, after.
I didn't go for my doctorateuntil 15 years later.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Okay, all right.
Yeah, yeah, well, after.
I didn't go for my doctorateuntil 15 years later.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Okay, all right.
Yeah, yeah, but you've traveledquite a bit, Was it as?
Speaker 2 (13:10):
part of your.
Well, one of the interestingthings was the reason when I
left Camp Jened which was wherethe Crip Camp film was done was
I had to do an internship for mymajor in therapeutic recreation
and there is a very well-knownrehab, recreation and rehab
(13:32):
center in San Francisco known asthe Pomeroy Center.
So I ended up getting aninternship there in 75.
And then when I graduated I gota job there.
So I lived in San Francisco 75to roughly 77.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Those were the glory days.
It's so funny that you say it.
When I, in 79, I went into theAir Force and I had to do some
of my training at an Air Forcebase called Castle Air Force
Base.
It was out in Merced,california Central Valley area,
(14:18):
but I didn't have any other way.
I had no idea how to get thereexcept to fly into San Francisco
and take a bus, and I flew inSan Francisco.
I got there and I got down tothe bus station and I said I
need to go to Merced and he goes, there aren't any more tonight.
And I'm like, oh my gosh, whatam I going to do?
(14:40):
Are you familiar with where thebus station is in San Francisco
?
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Yeah, it's the most exciting neighborhood in San
Francisco.
That's as nice as a way I canput it Market Street.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I lived nottoo far from Market Street for a
long time.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Oh, my gosh and I had this.
He seemed like a really niceguy and he volunteered to help
me get my stuff stored in alocker and he said well, I know
where you can crash for thenight.
Oh boy, I was young and naive.
I was like 19.
(15:15):
And then he bought me.
That was my firstjack-in-the-box, and none of
this has anything to do withwhat we're talking about here
but, I'm with San Francisco.
It has to do with kindness,kind of he had ulterior motives.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
I thought it was going to go there.
It's a.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
Navy guy, go figure.
No, I take that.
Oh my god, I might have to cutthat out, but all of this
informed you that your sense ofracial justice is that fair to
say?
Speaker 2 (15:49):
I mean all of your experiences, you know.
Interestingly, I think my firstreal putting my foot into the
stream of social justice wasabout disability, okay.
But you know, I had lots ofexperiences growing up that were
(16:10):
not about my being blind.
Even before I had the eyeaccident I went to a Catholic
parochial school.
Even before I had the eyeaccident I went to a Catholic
parochial school and because Iwas bilingual and I had an
accent, the nuns told my motherthat I had a speech impediment
and I had to go into the slowclass.
Now you know, I was no dummyand of course that's how I got
(16:32):
into trouble and got sent toCatholic reform school, because
I was just bored in the slowclass, right.
But it turned out that I wasn'talone in that experience.
I think I did some research tofind that about the age that I
was in Catholic school and gotsent to the slow class, 80% of
the Puerto Rican kids in NewYork never graduated high school
(16:56):
.
So there was clearly animpression that difference was
deficit.
And again, that applies also toissues of blindness, you know.
But I didn't have thatawareness at that age.
It really wasn't until I wentto San Francisco and got
involved in the disabilityrights movement that I started
(17:19):
learning about stereotypes andhow systems exclude people with
disabilities and how people withdisabilities are some of the
poorest, if not the poorestgroup in the country.
Even though we were the largestminority, we were the poorest
and continue to be the poorestpeople with disabilities.
(17:40):
Yes, yeah, yeah, and it's goahead well, just to make it even
more relevant.
You know, with all the, the,the quote-unquote, big beautiful
bill has cut out tens ofthousands of people with
disabilities from Medicaid, andthese are people who didn't have
very much money to begin with,so that, unfortunately, that
(18:06):
systematic expression of ableismcontinues.
It's worse.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
I didn't know if I wanted to bring up the current
stuff, but you did so.
Here we are, yeah.
I know you wanted to talk moreabout kindness, so feel free to
take me there I mean, it's true,the policies that are being
pushed current time, real timedo seem to do seem to, whether
(18:39):
intentional or not, do seem totarget those underserved or the
marginalized.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Yeah, I have family members who are part of the
LGBTQ community and if you'reelderly and you don't have much
of an income, you're gettingscrewed royally.
Yeah, so I mean, but you'reright, it's about people who are
often were at the fringes orthe edges of society are really
(19:11):
getting you know, piled onAbsolutely, and that is the
definition of anti-kindness, isit not?
Speaker 1 (19:20):
I mean, when you're directly pushing policies that
harm people who are alreadyprobably not doing so well in
the first place, that's not verykind.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
No, a big unkind bill .
Speaker 1 (19:36):
That's what I would call it A big ugly unkind bill.
That's what I would call it bigugly unkind bill.
Is there?
Yes, you, you, kb, I don't know.
Yeah, it's too bad and and it'sfrustrating and um well, and a
lot of those policies are alsotaking money from nonprofits and
(20:00):
you know that includes foodbanks, and we're back to the
poorest of the poor or meals onwheels.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
USA, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
USA.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
We are not living in the kindest of times we are not.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
It was the it was.
I can't even say it was thebest of times, it was the
unkindest of times.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
yeah, there you go.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
But um, so, and this is it's.
It's fascinating to me how allof these things led you to who
you are and where you are today.
You know, yeah, I mean as a asa kid with cataracts you never
would have dreamed that youwould have grown up to become an
(20:42):
advocate for, for socialjustice.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
I don't think I didn't know what it was.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Yeah well, and I would imagine we're probably
talking the 60s well my accident, yeah, my accident for my eye
when I was nine.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
It was 1964 okay and then it was corrected.
At least my right eye I stilldon't see out of my left, but it
was the right eye was correctedin 1974, okay, and by that time
I was starting to, I wasalready in college looking at
therapeutic recreation and youknow, the programs were very
(21:22):
much sort of social service butnot social justice, and it
really wasn't until I went toCalifornia that I started to
make the connection that youknow, yeah, you can't have one
without the other yeah, reallyyou can't, um, I I just I think,
(21:44):
because I read a comment fromyou, um, and I'll just read what
I've got here about how youwere illustrating how society
sometimes let you down, and yousaid and I think we were talking
(22:07):
about your book, you cancorrect me if I'm wrong you said
I want people to grasp that Iwas more disabled by my
environment and socialdiscrimination by others than by
my physical blindness.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Can you explain that?
Speaker 2 (22:25):
a little bit I mean, I understand it.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
I think I can grasp it.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
I can give an example that I think might be helpful.
So you know, I, when I wasstill in college I was no, I was
still a senior in high schooland I was getting ready to apply
for programs in therapeuticrecreation but one of my mentors
said to me you need to go tothe Department of Rehabilitation
(22:51):
Services, which was a stateagency, and have them sign a
form verifying that you'relegally blind.
So I said, okay, I mean, thiswas before the day of faxes and
all that.
So I made my way down and thisman who is, you know, in an
office and is, you know, gettingnear retirement age, and he
(23:15):
welcomes me in, very nice, yeah.
And I say, well, you know, I'mhere because blah, blah, blah.
And he says Well, james, thisis your lucky day Because I just
got in this posted announcementthat Grand Central Station has
an opening for somebody to runone of their newspaper kiosks
(23:38):
and you will make a much betterliving doing a newspaper kiosk
than you would ever do.
So I want to encourage youforget about college, sign here
and we'll get you this job.
Now you and I both know thatnewspaper kiosks barely exist
anymore.
Oh, that's true, that newspaperkiosks barely exist anymore oh
that's true.
(23:58):
But it was very emblematic ofthe way that disabled people,
particularly blind people, getsort of funneled into low-paying
jobs, you know, piano tuners.
So I was uncharacteristicallytactful.
(24:18):
I said, well, sir, thank youvery much, but I want to sort of
be like you, helping people andI want to get my degree in
therapeutic recreation.
So if you could just sign this,and he was kind of taken aback
because I'm sure at the time hethought this is what my job is,
is to get people jobs.
But he, you know kindly, hesigned it and I've been told by
(24:46):
my mentor make sure you don'tleave there without getting a
copy of it, because the statewas infamous for losing things.
So I, you know, I got a copy ofit so that I could make sure
that my application and it wasfunny because I ended up I was
up for a full scholarship andthen Richard Nixon came into
office and, unlike today, orlike today, he ended up cutting
a lot of the funding forstudents with disabilities.
(25:09):
I mean, I'm still able tocobble together that and get a
couple of summer jobs.
But yeah, that was my first realrun in personally with how
systems, institutions,perpetuate ableism.
I hadn't really everexperienced that.
(25:30):
In some ways, I was very luckybecause I went to a high school
Well before I went to highschool.
I went to junior high schooland they wanted before I went to
high school.
I went to junior high schooland they wanted to teach me
typing, because that's anotherthing that blind people could do
, and I was like I hated typingand I had no interest in it.
My mother was a secretary andshe could type my paper, so I
(25:53):
didn't need it and I didn't wantit and I didn't want to get
funneled into that.
Fair by the time I got to highschool.
I had some amazing teachers inhigh school who got me involved
in the ecology club, got meinvolved in the swim team and
really helped build up my resumefor college.
(26:14):
Yeah so I was very.
So.
You know I have goodexperiences with institutions
and not such good experiences.
Yeah so and I was just lucky, Itook advantage of the good ones
.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Hey, I mean that's yeah.
So your, your interest, I meanI think, yeah, doing the type of
work that you're interested in,the work in social justice, I
believe is a kind because you'refighting for people who have
(26:51):
really no voice, right.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Often yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Or very little voice.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
Or nobody wants to listen yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
True, and so that's cool I'm struck by.
There's a chapter in your bookyou know the one I'm going to
that as good as kindness is, asnice as we think of kindness,
(27:24):
there's a dark side to kindness.
Isn't there?
It could kill you.
Well, this is where you know.
I tread lightly, not once, butthree times almost.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Yeah almost three times.
But this is where I havelearned to tread lightly,
because I think people'sintentions are good, oh yeah,
people's intentions are good, ohyeah, but but the difference
between their intentions and theeffect of their behavior is
really kind of can, like you say, go down a dark road that you
(27:53):
don't want to go.
And I have a road example.
So I was still legally blind.
I was standing on the corner of59th and Lexington Avenue in
Manhattan, new York, and verybusy place.
Bloomingdale's was right acrossthe street and I was waiting
for a friend of mine and I justgot my cane and I was holding
(28:15):
the cane at my side.
But, you know, and this friendof mine was always late, you
know, I told her you'd be latefor your own funeral and this
friend of mine was always late.
I told her you'll be late foryour own funeral.
And again she was late.
And all of a sudden, this handgrabs my bicep and it's a big
(28:36):
hand and starts to pull me intothe street and I'm so stunned by
this.
It's a busy street, oh my God.
Yeah, it's like five lanes.
And I hear you, you know tiresscreeching, I hear taxi cabs
honking their horns, I hearpeople cussing.
So I know that I'm going acrossagainst the light.
And halfway across I finally gotmy bearings.
(28:57):
Enough to say to the person whoturned out to be huge I mean,
he was at least 280 pounds,probably, was 6'5"
African-American guy with aconstruction helmet on, you know
, and I said, mr, what you doing?
Yeah, and without missing abeat, he says well, you know,
(29:20):
this is a really busyintersection, so I thought you
would need some help gettingacross the street at this time
of day.
And at this point the lightchanges and now all these people
are coming across the crosswalkand he's like a blocker,
opening up a hole for me, andhe's so big that people moved
right, well, it's true, he getsme to the other side and finally
(29:43):
lifts me up and puts me on thesidewalk.
And you know I said well, Imean, that was very nice, but I
was just waiting for somebodyover there and I can tell by his
face.
As little as I could see, youcould just feel yeah that he was
really confounded and he startsto walk away.
Yes, and again, his intentions,I'm sure, were honorable.
(30:10):
He gets 10 feet away and hesays to me do you need me to
take you back?
And I was like, no, it's okay.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
So yeah, please no.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
So I mean again, you know and I think this is where
it becomes hard for some folkswho get sensitive when you know,
you point out that sometimeskindness can actually not have
the intended effect.
There's a woman named RebeccaTaussig who's written a great
(30:45):
memoir about being in awheelchair and she speaks
eloquently to this that you know, many times in her life people
have done stuff that not onlywasn't helpful but you know, was
dangerous.
You know, the other story thatI'll tell you about is um.
I was at Cortland and I had avery bad sophomore year and
(31:12):
luckily, again a teacher, um,ended up convincing me to go to
London, and I wasn't supposed tobe able to go because I was a
sophomore, but she was like thisvery legendary professor who,
when she was an undergraduate,shot the weather vane off the
top of Wesley College, becausethat's what she did.
(31:33):
She was from Virginia Backhills.
So if Marcia said this is goingto happen, it's going to happen
.
She got me to go to London,which was literally life-saving.
I had almost taken my lifebecause I was so miserable.
And when I'm in London I sortof I'm at the pub, I'm a little
(31:54):
bit, you know, a couple ofsheaths to the wind, and there's
a young woman who's you know,I'm kind of attracted to, and
she says, oh, would you needhelp getting to the subway stop
to go back home?
And I said sure, and I made amistake, I folded my cane and I
put it in my back pocket.
They should warn you about thiswhen you're doing training.
(32:17):
But she's walking and it's atnight.
But she's walking and it's atnight.
And you know, at the timeLondon had these call boxes for
bobbies that were on thetelephone poles or on poles.
And she's grabbing me from myelbow.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
And, rather than letting me hold her, she's you
know, she's grabbing me.
So from a distance it wouldlook like I was guiding her and
she didn't really understand.
And we're having this intenseconversation, including talking
about, you know, old boyfriends,old girlfriends, and I'm hoping
it's leading up to something,and all of a sudden, bam, right
(33:05):
right on my forehead, I havethis crushing impact and,
unbeknownst to me, she hadwalked me into one of the
bobby's call boxes.
Oh, my gosh and laid me out flat.
I mean I, I was seeing starslike in those old cartoons, when
this you know, and pullingaround and again she didn't.
She just didn't understand howto walk with a person who had a
(33:29):
visual disability.
Yeah, and yeah so you knowthere's a third time, but I
don't need to tell you that onebecause it involved the same
woman and it was yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
So, anyhow, I believe there was some waterfalls
involved.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
yeah, we were I was still trying.
We got back to courtland and Iwas still trying to see if I
could, you know, woo her overfrom her existing boyfriend and
we took a walk around sunset andit was a SUNY, not SUNY Ithaca
College in Ithaca, new York,near Cornell, and this canyon
(34:08):
had a waterfall at one end butwe were standing below it and we
couldn't hear ourselves talk.
So she suggested well, let's gowalk around the edge, because
then it'd be nice.
And it was just the time of daywhere the shadows were long and
it was fall and I never sawwell when the light.
I didn't see well before, butonce the light was fading I was
(34:31):
terrible.
And we're walking and talkingand I'm on the outside, near
this, the edge, and again, I'msort of caught up in this
conversation with this, you know, love interest, and she doesn't
tell me that we're, the trailhas made a sharp right and that
there's a washout.
So the next thing I know I'm inmidair, oh jeez, and I'm going
(34:57):
holy listeners right, you cansay that and you know, um make a
long story short.
You know, I got down about 15.
I hit the side of the cliff andthere were some small cedars
and I was able to grab them andarrest my fall and then crawl
(35:17):
back up to the trail.
But by this point I'm bleedingand I get up and I to the trail
and I don't even stand up, Ijust roll over onto the trail.
But by this point I'm bleedingand I get up and I to the trail
and I don't even stand up, Ijust roll over onto the trail
and by this point there's abunch of undergrads from Cornell
and I'll never forget this oneguy.
He's laughing.
He's laughing.
(35:37):
He said man, what are you blind?
I said to him fuck you idiot, Iam blind oh god, that's gonna
throw off the speakers, but yeah
Speaker 1 (35:48):
yeah, sorry, sorry, no, no no, I laughed too hard,
it was me okay good, um, yeah,as a matter of fact, uh, wow, I
I'm just.
I'm so inspired by you, james,because you've had a lifetime of
negative experiences and yetyou somehow turn them into
(36:14):
fighting for people, for causesthat are needed in this country
in this world today and I have alittle amount of time left, but
I want to talk about your book.
Your book is coming outNovember 4th.
(36:36):
Yes, university of MinnesotaPress.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
Yes, we will have a link to that.
You can pre-order it too, get30% off, and I'm a cheapskate,
so I think it's a good idea,right there with you.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Right there with you?
Yeah, no, and I think ifanybody wants to be inspired or
to learn about what it's like toto go through life with, with
some of these well, withdisability, with racism, with
(37:11):
everything that you've you'vedealt with and be inspired by
that I don't know if you wroteit to be inspiring, but Well,
not so much.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
I wrote.
It can be, I wrote it.
Yeah, the title is an I E-Y-Efor an I letter.
I growing up with blindness andbigotry and family mental
illness.
One of the things that I say inthe book is that blindness
didn't just happen to me, ithappened for me.
(37:42):
That, as much as you want tosay well, you know, aren't you
inspiring?
You did this on your own.
You know there was key peoplealong the way, out of kindness
or professional integrity, thatmade all the difference.
So, you know, I just tookadvantage, like many of your you
(38:03):
know listeners, I tookadvantage of the opportunities
that were there and I tried todeflect the ones that got in the
way.
I don't know if that'sparticularly inspiring.
I think that's whatnon-disabled people do all the
time.
I just put it in the context ofhaving been blind and having
(38:23):
been Puerto Rican and then alsodealing with my family's mental
illness.
But you know, I guess I don't.
I appreciate you're sayingyou're inspired by it.
At the same time, I feel like,you know, most people would
(38:46):
probably, given thecircumstances, the opportunities
that I had would do some.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
I mean, it's not the same choices, it's living a life
right.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
It's living a life.
It makes me and you normal andwe, you know, we wade through
the stuff that we have to wadethrough and luckily, I think, I
ended up with some greatopportunities.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
Yeah, I will disagree partially with that.
I think there are plenty ofpeople out there who think that
they don't have a voice whenthey experience that kind of
thing, some of the things thatyou experienced, and they think
nobody will listen to me and youknow who am I to speak up.
(39:27):
So I would disagree a littlebit with that you're allowed,
it's your program.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
Hey, it is.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
I really, really, really appreciate your time
today, james.
It's been so great talking toyou and for my listeners.
Don't forget to go to the shownotes and get the link to that
book.
It'll be out.
You can order it right now.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
I think you just go to University of Minnesota,
press their website and justtype in either James Francisco
Bonilla or an I, e-y-e for an Iand it'll come up.
Oh perfect, yeah, so pre-orderbecause you get money off
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
It's a tight economy.
Exactly.
Oh, here we go again.
No, we're not going to do that.
No, we all go there, we'll gothere.
Thank you, james, I appreciateit.
You have a fantastic week.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Thank you for inviting me.
Yeah, thank you for inviting me.
This was a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
Thank you so much for joining us today on the
Kindness Matters podcast with myguest, James Francisco Bonilla.
We hope you're leaving withsomething uplifting, inspiring
or simply a reminder thatkindness truly does make a
difference, If you enjoyed thisepisode.
be sure to subscribe whereveryou listen to podcasts so you
(40:54):
never miss a moment ofencouragement.
You can also follow us onsocial media for daily reminders
of kindness in action, anddon't forget to sign up for our
monthly newsletter.
You can also follow us onsocial media for daily reminders
of kindness in action, anddon't forget to sign up for our
monthly newsletter, where weshare even more heartwarming
stories to brighten up yourmonth.
Until next time, rememberkindness matters, and so do you.
Hello everyone and welcome to the Kindness Matters
podcast.
I'm your host, mike Rathbun.
On this podcast, we promotepositivity, empathy and
compassion because we believethat kindness is alive and well,
and there are people andorganizations that you may not
(00:21):
have heard of in the world,making their communities a
better place for everyone, andwe want you to hear their
stories.
On this podcast, we talk aboutmatters of kindness because
kindness matters.
Hey, hello and welcomeeverybody to the Kindness
Matters podcast.
I am your host, mike Rathbun.
(00:42):
I hope you're doing well, Ihope you're having a fantastic
week and I hope you're beingkind.
Remember that if you would likea little bit of kindness, a
little bit of uplifting news, alittle bit of positivity in your
email box every month, pleasedon't forget to subscribe to the
Kindness Matters podcastnewsletter.
You can do that.
(01:02):
There's a link in the shownotes at the end.
I like to highlight people whoare making a positive difference
in this world, and you can bepart of that as well, just by
subscribing.
My guest today is reallyawesome.
His name is James FranciscoBonilla.
He is a New York-born PuertoRican writer and retired
(01:25):
professor emeritus of culturalcompetence and leadership at
Hamlin University in St Paul,minnesota.
James was born with congenitalcataracts and has never had
sight in his left eye.
Following a racially motivatedassault at the age of nine, he
lost much of his remaining sightin the right eye.
(01:46):
Ten years later, a medicalbreakthrough restored the sight
to his right eye and, searchingfor relief and inspiration, he
discovered unexpected solace inthe natural world, which led him
toward both personal healingand advocacy work.
Because of his experiences,james was drawn into the early
(02:07):
disability rights movement,which later helped ground him's
work as a nationally recognizedsocial justice educator and
environmentalist.
James received his doctoraldegree from the University of
Massachusetts Amherst School ofEducation in Organizational
Leadership.
That's easy for me to say.
No, it's not.
(02:27):
He is a former chair of theFaculty Advisory Committee to
the National Conference onRacial and Ethnic Diversity in
American Higher Education.
He's made hundreds ofpresentations to universities,
conferences and human serviceorganizations in the area of
diversity, including outdooreducation and environmental
(02:49):
programs.
His memoir An Eye for an EyeGrowing Up with Blindness,
bigotry and Family MentalIllness is set to be released by
the University of MinnesotaPress on November 4th.
In it, he invites readers toempathize and consider their own
potential to be of service in abroken, beautiful world.
(03:09):
So very nice to have you here,james.
I really, really appreciate you.
When our mutual friend, debHoltz suggested you, and part of
her selling point was the factthat you're blind, and I was
(03:30):
kind of thinking that the wholeepisode might be kind of about
that.
But really there's so very muchmore to your story that
involves kindness, isn't there?
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I tried to write it so that itwould not be sort of the
one-dimensional.
Here's a disabled person whosuffers, who overcomes, and blah
, blah, blah, because I thinkthat's.
That's unfortunately a tropethat happens often for disabled
people.
They don't you, they're notseen beyond their disability,
(04:07):
and I was really interested inexploring the connection between
my being having been.
Now.
You know that I had surgerywhen I was 19,.
Right?
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Okay, go ahead.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Okay, no, I I was.
I was initially interested inexploring the relationship of
being legally blind for thatdecade to being Puerto Rican
similarities and differences andthen, in the process, I ended
up writing about family mentalillness, including my own, and
(04:41):
it was like I didn't know that Iwas going in that direction.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
So there it was like I didn't know that I was going
in that direction.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
So there it was, you know, so it's a complex.
Yeah, it's complex it is.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
there's nothing about life that is not complex, right
?
Yeah, yeah, um, because, and Ialluded, yeah, and I alluded to
this, I think, in the intro,because you were born with
genital cataracts in your lefteye, just your left eye.
Right, they were in both eyes,but the one in my left eye was
quite big so I couldn't see outof it.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
But I had one in my right eye.
When I got hit, rather thantake me immediately to the
hospital, the good brothers leftme in the infirmary for three
days and that's where it got theblood thickened up, the
cataract, so badly that Icouldn't see.
Once I was done there, Icouldn't see the big E in the
eye chart.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Yeah, oh, wow, yeah, Even I can see that and that's
saying a lot, yeah, so, and thatwhole horseshoe to the eye
thing, that was a I was going tosay a racial Nine-year-olds,
(06:03):
really understand their behavior.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
I mean, they clearly absorb messages.
So this kid, I was kicking hisbutt in horseshoes and when I
came out I was looking for ahorseshoe underneath a stairwell
, which was very dark, and whenI came out he had actually found
it and he whipped it at my facesaying catch, spick found it.
(06:28):
And he whipped it at my facesaying catch, spick.
And you know, because I had notreally adjusted, I caught it
with my one good eye and thatset into motion a whole series
of events that that led to mybeing legally blind for the next
decade wow, that's crazy.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
And what was this?
Speaker 2 (06:50):
this is pretty amazing, you know, because they
couldn't do surgery on youngpeople with cataracts, because
the fibers that held the lens ofthe eye on were very thick and
hard when you're young.
Yeah, okay, they could.
They could do it with old folkslike us now, but they couldn't
do it with young people.
(07:11):
And then they came up with thisnew approach, using ultrasonic
sound, so not to gross out yourlisteners, but basically they
had a vibe they had a vibratingwand that basically shattered
the lens of my right eye andthey had a teeny little vacuum
that vacuumed it out and withthe vacuum and the lens went the
(07:35):
cataract.
So I was given a contact.
Now it's like you're in and outone day, it's all laser.
Poof, poof, poof, poof and boom, you're done.
They can't do the contact andthey implant it now.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
So that's, that's incredible, um.
But and so this whole, all ofyour combined experiences, kind
of led you to and again I thinkI talked about that a little bit
(08:15):
in the intro how it this kindof drew you to nature.
That nature is where you foundhealing, right from, yes,
everything in your life, um,from the discrimination you were
facing, the blindness well andand some mental health issues.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Great if it was just my mom.
It was primarily my mom and, um, you know, uh, yeah, so I ended
up, uh, going outdoors whenthings would get really bad,
yeah, and that's where I foundsolace and I found, you know,
spirits and nature in the formof animals that, just you know,
(09:05):
really blessed me.
You know, in the book I talkabout being in the woods and
great horned owl would land in atree next to me, or walking
down a trail and a coyote or atleast I could tell it was a
coyote because of the color ofthe eyes in my flashlight would
fall.
So it it.
It gave me a sense that I wasnot alone when I felt the most
(09:29):
alone yeah, yeah, oh, for sure.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
Uh, that's, that's amazing.
Um, and then it all led youinto um, all of that, all those
experiences kind of led you intoyou.
You went to college, you got adoctoral degree from University
(10:01):
of Mass Way before that.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
I mean, I had quite a gap between finishing my
undergraduate work and I hadsurgery done on me when I was 19
and I got the site back but Ihad already sort of got into
this track of working withdisabled populations.
But I had already sort of gotinto this track of working with
disabled populations.
So there's a great film calledCrip Camp that was done by the
(10:24):
Obamas about this camp inupstate New York for disabled
young people, and a lot of thoseyoung people ended up being
leaders in the emergingdisability rights movement in
the 1970s.
I ended up working at that camp, and so that's how.
And then, like a lot of them,when I finished my stint at the
(10:51):
camp, I moved to California,which is really where it was
happening around disabilityrights issues.
I had my second sit in there.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Right.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
I had that was.
That would have been 1976 or 77.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
What year was that?
Was that?
Well, I don't know the 70s werethe best times for protests,
weren't they?
Yeah, yeah, but it was in the60s.
Do it, and ironically, it wasin a really progressive
governor's office.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
We took over his office, jerry brown, in his
first stint as governor ofcalifornia, in many ways a very
progressive guy, but it'sanother example of how
disability issues just fallunder the radar and just just
you know, he was always fiscallyconservative and he cut funds
for transportation for disabledpeople.
(11:44):
Now, if you're in a wheelchairor you're blind, you need
transportation, I mean.
So we ended up taking over hisoffice, but it was just sort of
ironic that one of the mostprogressive governors in history
were the one that we had totake over his office.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
Yeah, for sure I remember, did he not run how
many runs for president?
Did he make One or two, I?
Think 76, I think he ran, Idon't know.
Yeah, I can't, that's, I'm notthat old, I can't remember that
far back you know my line is Iknow, here's my line, you can
(12:22):
use it.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
As I get older, I get better looking, but my memory
gets worse.
But I can live with that.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
You know it's OK, Exactly so feel free to use that
line anytime.
I paraphrase that a lot yeah,so, okay, so this was now.
Was that before or after?
That was before you went to getyour doctoral degree?
(12:50):
Oh yeah, well, after.
I didn't go for my doctorateuntil 15 years later.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Okay, all right.
Yeah, yeah, well, after.
I didn't go for my doctorateuntil 15 years later.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Okay, all right.
Yeah, yeah, but you've traveledquite a bit, Was it as?
Speaker 2 (13:10):
part of your.
Well, one of the interestingthings was the reason when I
left Camp Jened which was wherethe Crip Camp film was done was
I had to do an internship for mymajor in therapeutic recreation
and there is a very well-knownrehab, recreation and rehab
(13:32):
center in San Francisco known asthe Pomeroy Center.
So I ended up getting aninternship there in 75.
And then when I graduated I gota job there.
So I lived in San Francisco 75to roughly 77.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Those were the glory days.
It's so funny that you say it.
When I, in 79, I went into theAir Force and I had to do some
of my training at an Air Forcebase called Castle Air Force
Base.
It was out in Merced,california Central Valley area,
(14:18):
but I didn't have any other way.
I had no idea how to get thereexcept to fly into San Francisco
and take a bus, and I flew inSan Francisco.
I got there and I got down tothe bus station and I said I
need to go to Merced and he goes, there aren't any more tonight.
And I'm like, oh my gosh, whatam I going to do?
(14:40):
Are you familiar with where thebus station is in San Francisco
?
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Yeah, it's the most exciting neighborhood in San
Francisco.
That's as nice as a way I canput it Market Street.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I lived nottoo far from Market Street for a
long time.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Oh, my gosh and I had this.
He seemed like a really niceguy and he volunteered to help
me get my stuff stored in alocker and he said well, I know
where you can crash for thenight.
Oh boy, I was young and naive.
I was like 19.
(15:15):
And then he bought me.
That was my firstjack-in-the-box, and none of
this has anything to do withwhat we're talking about here
but, I'm with San Francisco.
It has to do with kindness,kind of he had ulterior motives.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
I thought it was going to go there.
It's a.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
Navy guy, go figure.
No, I take that.
Oh my god, I might have to cutthat out, but all of this
informed you that your sense ofracial justice is that fair to
say?
Speaker 2 (15:49):
I mean all of your experiences, you know.
Interestingly, I think my firstreal putting my foot into the
stream of social justice wasabout disability, okay.
But you know, I had lots ofexperiences growing up that were
(16:10):
not about my being blind.
Even before I had the eyeaccident I went to a Catholic
parochial school.
Even before I had the eyeaccident I went to a Catholic
parochial school and because Iwas bilingual and I had an
accent, the nuns told my motherthat I had a speech impediment
and I had to go into the slowclass.
Now you know, I was no dummyand of course that's how I got
(16:32):
into trouble and got sent toCatholic reform school, because
I was just bored in the slowclass, right.
But it turned out that I wasn'talone in that experience.
I think I did some research tofind that about the age that I
was in Catholic school and gotsent to the slow class, 80% of
the Puerto Rican kids in NewYork never graduated high school
(16:56):
.
So there was clearly animpression that difference was
deficit.
And again, that applies also toissues of blindness, you know.
But I didn't have thatawareness at that age.
It really wasn't until I wentto San Francisco and got
involved in the disabilityrights movement that I started
(17:19):
learning about stereotypes andhow systems exclude people with
disabilities and how people withdisabilities are some of the
poorest, if not the poorestgroup in the country.
Even though we were the largestminority, we were the poorest
and continue to be the poorestpeople with disabilities.
(17:40):
Yes, yeah, yeah, and it's goahead well, just to make it even
more relevant.
You know, with all the, the,the quote-unquote, big beautiful
bill has cut out tens ofthousands of people with
disabilities from Medicaid, andthese are people who didn't have
very much money to begin with,so that, unfortunately, that
(18:06):
systematic expression of ableismcontinues.
It's worse.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
I didn't know if I wanted to bring up the current
stuff, but you did so.
Here we are, yeah.
I know you wanted to talk moreabout kindness, so feel free to
take me there I mean, it's true,the policies that are being
pushed current time, real timedo seem to do seem to, whether
(18:39):
intentional or not, do seem totarget those underserved or the
marginalized.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Yeah, I have family members who are part of the
LGBTQ community and if you'reelderly and you don't have much
of an income, you're gettingscrewed royally.
Yeah, so I mean, but you'reright, it's about people who are
often were at the fringes orthe edges of society are really
(19:11):
getting you know, piled onAbsolutely, and that is the
definition of anti-kindness, isit not?
Speaker 1 (19:20):
I mean, when you're directly pushing policies that
harm people who are alreadyprobably not doing so well in
the first place, that's not verykind.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
No, a big unkind bill .
Speaker 1 (19:36):
That's what I would call it A big ugly unkind bill.
That's what I would call it bigugly unkind bill.
Is there?
Yes, you, you, kb, I don't know.
Yeah, it's too bad and and it'sfrustrating and um well, and a
lot of those policies are alsotaking money from nonprofits and
(20:00):
you know that includes foodbanks, and we're back to the
poorest of the poor or meals onwheels.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
USA, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
USA.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
We are not living in the kindest of times we are not.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
It was the it was.
I can't even say it was thebest of times, it was the
unkindest of times.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
yeah, there you go.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
But um, so, and this is it's.
It's fascinating to me how allof these things led you to who
you are and where you are today.
You know, yeah, I mean as a asa kid with cataracts you never
would have dreamed that youwould have grown up to become an
(20:42):
advocate for, for socialjustice.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
I don't think I didn't know what it was.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Yeah well, and I would imagine we're probably
talking the 60s well my accident, yeah, my accident for my eye
when I was nine.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
It was 1964 okay and then it was corrected.
At least my right eye I stilldon't see out of my left, but it
was the right eye was correctedin 1974, okay, and by that time
I was starting to, I wasalready in college looking at
therapeutic recreation and youknow, the programs were very
(21:22):
much sort of social service butnot social justice, and it
really wasn't until I went toCalifornia that I started to
make the connection that youknow, yeah, you can't have one
without the other yeah, reallyyou can't, um, I I just I think,
(21:44):
because I read a comment fromyou, um, and I'll just read what
I've got here about how youwere illustrating how society
sometimes let you down, and yousaid and I think we were talking
(22:07):
about your book, you cancorrect me if I'm wrong you said
I want people to grasp that Iwas more disabled by my
environment and socialdiscrimination by others than by
my physical blindness.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Can you explain that?
Speaker 2 (22:25):
a little bit I mean, I understand it.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
I think I can grasp it.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
I can give an example that I think might be helpful.
So you know, I, when I wasstill in college I was no, I was
still a senior in high schooland I was getting ready to apply
for programs in therapeuticrecreation but one of my mentors
said to me you need to go tothe Department of Rehabilitation
(22:51):
Services, which was a stateagency, and have them sign a
form verifying that you'relegally blind.
So I said, okay, I mean, thiswas before the day of faxes and
all that.
So I made my way down and thisman who is, you know, in an
office and is, you know, gettingnear retirement age, and he
(23:15):
welcomes me in, very nice, yeah.
And I say, well, you know, I'mhere because blah, blah, blah.
And he says Well, james, thisis your lucky day Because I just
got in this posted announcementthat Grand Central Station has
an opening for somebody to runone of their newspaper kiosks
(23:38):
and you will make a much betterliving doing a newspaper kiosk
than you would ever do.
So I want to encourage youforget about college, sign here
and we'll get you this job.
Now you and I both know thatnewspaper kiosks barely exist
anymore.
Oh, that's true, that newspaperkiosks barely exist anymore oh
that's true.
(23:58):
But it was very emblematic ofthe way that disabled people,
particularly blind people, getsort of funneled into low-paying
jobs, you know, piano tuners.
So I was uncharacteristicallytactful.
(24:18):
I said, well, sir, thank youvery much, but I want to sort of
be like you, helping people andI want to get my degree in
therapeutic recreation.
So if you could just sign this,and he was kind of taken aback
because I'm sure at the time hethought this is what my job is,
is to get people jobs.
But he, you know kindly, hesigned it and I've been told by
(24:46):
my mentor make sure you don'tleave there without getting a
copy of it, because the statewas infamous for losing things.
So I, you know, I got a copy ofit so that I could make sure
that my application and it wasfunny because I ended up I was
up for a full scholarship andthen Richard Nixon came into
office and, unlike today, orlike today, he ended up cutting
a lot of the funding forstudents with disabilities.
(25:09):
I mean, I'm still able tocobble together that and get a
couple of summer jobs.
But yeah, that was my first realrun in personally with how
systems, institutions,perpetuate ableism.
I hadn't really everexperienced that.
(25:30):
In some ways, I was very luckybecause I went to a high school
Well before I went to highschool.
I went to junior high schooland they wanted before I went to
high school.
I went to junior high schooland they wanted to teach me
typing, because that's anotherthing that blind people could do
, and I was like I hated typingand I had no interest in it.
My mother was a secretary andshe could type my paper, so I
(25:53):
didn't need it and I didn't wantit and I didn't want to get
funneled into that.
Fair by the time I got to highschool.
I had some amazing teachers inhigh school who got me involved
in the ecology club, got meinvolved in the swim team and
really helped build up my resumefor college.
(26:14):
Yeah so I was very.
So.
You know I have goodexperiences with institutions
and not such good experiences.
Yeah so and I was just lucky, Itook advantage of the good ones
.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Hey, I mean that's yeah.
So your, your interest, I meanI think, yeah, doing the type of
work that you're interested in,the work in social justice, I
believe is a kind because you'refighting for people who have
(26:51):
really no voice, right.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Often yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Or very little voice.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
Or nobody wants to listen yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
True, and so that's cool I'm struck by.
There's a chapter in your bookyou know the one I'm going to
that as good as kindness is, asnice as we think of kindness,
(27:24):
there's a dark side to kindness.
Isn't there?
It could kill you.
Well, this is where you know.
I tread lightly, not once, butthree times almost.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Yeah almost three times.
But this is where I havelearned to tread lightly,
because I think people'sintentions are good, oh yeah,
people's intentions are good, ohyeah, but but the difference
between their intentions and theeffect of their behavior is
really kind of can, like you say, go down a dark road that you
(27:53):
don't want to go.
And I have a road example.
So I was still legally blind.
I was standing on the corner of59th and Lexington Avenue in
Manhattan, new York, and verybusy place.
Bloomingdale's was right acrossthe street and I was waiting
for a friend of mine and I justgot my cane and I was holding
(28:15):
the cane at my side.
But, you know, and this friendof mine was always late, you
know, I told her you'd be latefor your own funeral and this
friend of mine was always late.
I told her you'll be late foryour own funeral.
And again she was late.
And all of a sudden, this handgrabs my bicep and it's a big
(28:36):
hand and starts to pull me intothe street and I'm so stunned by
this.
It's a busy street, oh my God.
Yeah, it's like five lanes.
And I hear you, you know tiresscreeching, I hear taxi cabs
honking their horns, I hearpeople cussing.
So I know that I'm going acrossagainst the light.
And halfway across I finally gotmy bearings.
(28:57):
Enough to say to the person whoturned out to be huge I mean,
he was at least 280 pounds,probably, was 6'5"
African-American guy with aconstruction helmet on, you know
, and I said, mr, what you doing?
Yeah, and without missing abeat, he says well, you know,
(29:20):
this is a really busyintersection, so I thought you
would need some help gettingacross the street at this time
of day.
And at this point the lightchanges and now all these people
are coming across the crosswalkand he's like a blocker,
opening up a hole for me, andhe's so big that people moved
right, well, it's true, he getsme to the other side and finally
(29:43):
lifts me up and puts me on thesidewalk.
And you know I said well, Imean, that was very nice, but I
was just waiting for somebodyover there and I can tell by his
face.
As little as I could see, youcould just feel yeah that he was
really confounded and he startsto walk away.
Yes, and again, his intentions,I'm sure, were honorable.
(30:10):
He gets 10 feet away and hesays to me do you need me to
take you back?
And I was like, no, it's okay.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
So yeah, please no.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
So I mean again, you know and I think this is where
it becomes hard for some folkswho get sensitive when you know,
you point out that sometimeskindness can actually not have
the intended effect.
There's a woman named RebeccaTaussig who's written a great
(30:45):
memoir about being in awheelchair and she speaks
eloquently to this that you know, many times in her life people
have done stuff that not onlywasn't helpful but you know, was
dangerous.
You know, the other story thatI'll tell you about is um.
I was at Cortland and I had avery bad sophomore year and
(31:12):
luckily, again a teacher, um,ended up convincing me to go to
London, and I wasn't supposed tobe able to go because I was a
sophomore, but she was like thisvery legendary professor who,
when she was an undergraduate,shot the weather vane off the
top of Wesley College, becausethat's what she did.
(31:33):
She was from Virginia Backhills.
So if Marcia said this is goingto happen, it's going to happen
.
She got me to go to London,which was literally life-saving.
I had almost taken my lifebecause I was so miserable.
And when I'm in London I sortof I'm at the pub, I'm a little
(31:54):
bit, you know, a couple ofsheaths to the wind, and there's
a young woman who's you know,I'm kind of attracted to, and
she says, oh, would you needhelp getting to the subway stop
to go back home?
And I said sure, and I made amistake, I folded my cane and I
put it in my back pocket.
They should warn you about thiswhen you're doing training.
(32:17):
But she's walking and it's atnight.
But she's walking and it's atnight.
And you know, at the timeLondon had these call boxes for
bobbies that were on thetelephone poles or on poles.
And she's grabbing me from myelbow.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
And, rather than letting me hold her, she's you
know, she's grabbing me.
So from a distance it wouldlook like I was guiding her and
she didn't really understand.
And we're having this intenseconversation, including talking
about, you know, old boyfriends,old girlfriends, and I'm hoping
it's leading up to something,and all of a sudden, bam, right
(33:05):
right on my forehead, I havethis crushing impact and,
unbeknownst to me, she hadwalked me into one of the
bobby's call boxes.
Oh, my gosh and laid me out flat.
I mean I, I was seeing starslike in those old cartoons, when
this you know, and pullingaround and again she didn't.
She just didn't understand howto walk with a person who had a
(33:29):
visual disability.
Yeah, and yeah so you knowthere's a third time, but I
don't need to tell you that onebecause it involved the same
woman and it was yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
So, anyhow, I believe there was some waterfalls
involved.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
yeah, we were I was still trying.
We got back to courtland and Iwas still trying to see if I
could, you know, woo her overfrom her existing boyfriend and
we took a walk around sunset andit was a SUNY, not SUNY Ithaca
College in Ithaca, new York,near Cornell, and this canyon
(34:08):
had a waterfall at one end butwe were standing below it and we
couldn't hear ourselves talk.
So she suggested well, let's gowalk around the edge, because
then it'd be nice.
And it was just the time of daywhere the shadows were long and
it was fall and I never sawwell when the light.
I didn't see well before, butonce the light was fading I was
(34:31):
terrible.
And we're walking and talkingand I'm on the outside, near
this, the edge, and again, I'msort of caught up in this
conversation with this, you know, love interest, and she doesn't
tell me that we're, the trailhas made a sharp right and that
there's a washout.
So the next thing I know I'm inmidair, oh jeez, and I'm going
(34:57):
holy listeners right, you cansay that and you know, um make a
long story short.
You know, I got down about 15.
I hit the side of the cliff andthere were some small cedars
and I was able to grab them andarrest my fall and then crawl
(35:17):
back up to the trail.
But by this point I'm bleedingand I get up and I to the trail
and I don't even stand up, Ijust roll over onto the trail.
But by this point I'm bleedingand I get up and I to the trail
and I don't even stand up, Ijust roll over onto the trail
and by this point there's abunch of undergrads from Cornell
and I'll never forget this oneguy.
He's laughing.
He's laughing.
(35:37):
He said man, what are you blind?
I said to him fuck you idiot, Iam blind oh god, that's gonna
throw off the speakers, but yeah
Speaker 1 (35:48):
yeah, sorry, sorry, no, no no, I laughed too hard,
it was me okay good, um, yeah,as a matter of fact, uh, wow, I
I'm just.
I'm so inspired by you, james,because you've had a lifetime of
negative experiences and yetyou somehow turn them into
(36:14):
fighting for people, for causesthat are needed in this country
in this world today and I have alittle amount of time left, but
I want to talk about your book.
Your book is coming outNovember 4th.
(36:36):
Yes, university of MinnesotaPress.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
Yes, we will have a link to that.
You can pre-order it too, get30% off, and I'm a cheapskate,
so I think it's a good idea,right there with you.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Right there with you?
Yeah, no, and I think ifanybody wants to be inspired or
to learn about what it's like toto go through life with, with
some of these well, withdisability, with racism, with
(37:11):
everything that you've you'vedealt with and be inspired by
that I don't know if you wroteit to be inspiring, but Well,
not so much.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
I wrote.
It can be, I wrote it.
Yeah, the title is an I E-Y-Efor an I letter.
I growing up with blindness andbigotry and family mental
illness.
One of the things that I say inthe book is that blindness
didn't just happen to me, ithappened for me.
(37:42):
That, as much as you want tosay well, you know, aren't you
inspiring?
You did this on your own.
You know there was key peoplealong the way, out of kindness
or professional integrity, thatmade all the difference.
So, you know, I just tookadvantage, like many of your you
(38:03):
know listeners, I tookadvantage of the opportunities
that were there and I tried todeflect the ones that got in the
way.
I don't know if that'sparticularly inspiring.
I think that's whatnon-disabled people do all the
time.
I just put it in the context ofhaving been blind and having
(38:23):
been Puerto Rican and then alsodealing with my family's mental
illness.
But you know, I guess I don't.
I appreciate you're sayingyou're inspired by it.
At the same time, I feel like,you know, most people would
(38:46):
probably, given thecircumstances, the opportunities
that I had would do some.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
I mean, it's not the same choices, it's living a life
right.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
It's living a life.
It makes me and you normal andwe, you know, we wade through
the stuff that we have to wadethrough and luckily, I think, I
ended up with some greatopportunities.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
Yeah, I will disagree partially with that.
I think there are plenty ofpeople out there who think that
they don't have a voice whenthey experience that kind of
thing, some of the things thatyou experienced, and they think
nobody will listen to me and youknow who am I to speak up.
(39:27):
So I would disagree a littlebit with that you're allowed,
it's your program.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
Hey, it is.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
I really, really, really appreciate your time
today, james.
It's been so great talking toyou and for my listeners.
Don't forget to go to the shownotes and get the link to that
book.
It'll be out.
You can order it right now.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
I think you just go to University of Minnesota,
press their website and justtype in either James Francisco
Bonilla or an I, e-y-e for an Iand it'll come up.
Oh perfect, yeah, so pre-orderbecause you get money off
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
It's a tight economy.
Exactly.
Oh, here we go again.
No, we're not going to do that.
No, we all go there, we'll gothere.
Thank you, james, I appreciateit.
You have a fantastic week.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Thank you for inviting me.
Yeah, thank you for inviting me.
This was a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
Thank you so much for joining us today on the
Kindness Matters podcast with myguest, James Francisco Bonilla.
We hope you're leaving withsomething uplifting, inspiring
or simply a reminder thatkindness truly does make a
difference, If you enjoyed thisepisode.
be sure to subscribe whereveryou listen to podcasts so you
(40:54):
never miss a moment ofencouragement.
You can also follow us onsocial media for daily reminders
of kindness in action, anddon't forget to sign up for our
monthly newsletter.
You can also follow us onsocial media for daily reminders
of kindness in action, anddon't forget to sign up for our
monthly newsletter, where weshare even more heartwarming
stories to brighten up yourmonth.
Until next time, rememberkindness matters, and so do you.
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