May 7, 2025 • 54 mins
Send a Text Message to The Kosher Terroir
Journey to the edge of the Judean Desert, where breathtaking vistas meet ancient biblical lands at Gilad Winery. Perched dramatically above steep drops into the Jordan Valley, this boutique gem has become a beacon for kosher Mediterranean-style wines under the passionate stewardship of Chaim Sackton.
As we sit surrounded by barrels in his intimate winery, Chaim shares the story of Gilad's inception—how a morning coffee overlooking the distant Gilad Mountains inspired not just the winery's name, but his entire approach to winemaking. Each wine series carries biblical names from this historic region, creating a direct connection between ancient tradition and modern craftsmanship.
What sets Gilad apart is Chaim's unwavering commitment to lighter, more approachable wines. While many Israeli wineries chase bold, high-alcohol profiles, he deliberately crafts wines with restrained extraction and elegant fruit expression. His GSM blend exemplifies this philosophy—a wine so versatile it pairs beautifully with everything from steak to chocolate chip cookies. As Chaim explains, "I prefer drinking light wines with food than full-bodied wines" because they allow both the wine and the food to express themselves fully.
Perhaps most fascinating is the story behind Heritage, Gilad's flagship wine. After aging in new oak for 24 months, Chaim felt the wine hadn't reached its potential—the wood overpowered the fruit. Rather than compromise, he aged it an additional 24 months in the bottle until it transformed into something truly special. This patience and commitment to quality over expediency defines everything about Gilad Winery.
From his current production of 20,000 bottles to plans for expanding to 50,000 and adding a visitor center, Chaim's vision continues to evolve. If you're seeking authentic kosher wines that celebrate Israel's unique terroir while remaining remarkably drinkable, seek out these limited-production treasures from Gilad Winery. Your palate will thank you.
For more information:
Chaim Sackton: Winemaker, Owner
Address: סנה, Geva Binyamin
Email: giladwinery17@gmail.com
Phone: +972 52-555-6833
WhatsApp Business: +972525556833
www.TheKosherTerroir.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S. Simon Jacob (00:09):
Welcome to The Kosher Terroir.
I'm Simon Jacob, your host forthis episode from Jerusalem.
Before we get started, I askthat, wherever you are, please
take a moment and pray for thesafety of our soldiers and the
safe return of all of ourhostages.
Welcome back to The KosherTerroir, the podcast, where we
(00:41):
journey through landscapes,legends, rugged and breathtaking
.
Mountainous settlement nearGeva Benyamin, just outside of
Jerusalem, perched above steepdrops into the Jordan Valley.
This dramatic terrain is hometo Gilad Winery, a boutique gem
producing wines as elegant andnuanced as the land itself.
(01:04):
Peak gem producing wines aselegant and nuanced as the land
itself.
We're joined by Chaim Sackton,the owner and winemaker behind
Gilad Winery.
With a background in hands-onviticulture and a deep reverence
for the Mediterranean climate,Chaim crafts lighter, more
approachable wines that areperfect for this sun-drenched
(01:25):
terroir.
Adding to this journey isItzhak Stern, one of Israel's
most beloved wine tour guides.
Together, we step into thebarrel room and sip through a
collection of elegant,terroir-driven wines that define
kosher Mediterranean style.
This isn't just the tasting.
It's a story of vision, placeand passion all poured into
(01:50):
every bottle.
If you're driving in your car,please focus on the road ahead.
If you're relaxing at home,please uncork something fresh
and join us as we explore thisboutique winery known as Gilad.
Chaim Sackton (02:07):
Gilad Winery is.
We're located here in YishuvSeneh.
We're on the border of thedesert and the view looking east
is Shevet Reuven is the GiladMountain region.
S. Simon Jacob (02:21):
That was the first question I had for you.
It's such an important name.
How did you pick it for thewinery and why so?
Chaim Sackton (02:28):
when I was looking for a name, and I was
looking for a short name thatworks in English and represents
biblical and Israeli wine.
I'm not looking to be anAmerican.
I started off actually with mylast name, Sackton.
Sackton Winery, right, but it'sjust too American.
S. Simon Jacob (02:46):
That's what.
Chaim Sackton (02:47):
I thought it's just too American.
Okay, I walk out.
You know drinking my coffee inthe morning, looking outside on
the view and I see Gilad.
Mountains, right.
And I'm saying wait a second,this is Gilad and Gilad is a
beautiful name, right?
So that's what.
It is very cool.
Now, the name Midbah basicallyall my wines I took the names
(03:09):
biblical names from the Giladregion.
So the first series, we'retalking about Midbah.
There's an Arab town that stillexists till today.
It's called Nadaba.
It's in Jordan and it's broughtdown and saved for Midbah and
they went to Midba.
So there is a biblical citythere.
There's a famous map that theyfound in Midba, mosaic, the
(03:34):
Mosaic map, the most antique mapof Jerusalem, basically Wow.
So that's one of my ideas areto put a map one day on the
Midba series.
But it's kind of mosaic, itdoesn't fit the modern look, but
somehow I'll have to fit it in.
S. Simon Jacob (03:52):
Tell me the first series.
What does it include?
It includes a shenan.
Chaim Sackton (03:56):
It includes a Chenin Blanc rosé and a blend of
GSM.
Okay, so the rosé is made outof what the rosé is made out of
Merlot, straight Merlot.
Okay, I got the grapes from HarBracha.
I have a vineyard over there.
I buy my grapes.
Most of my grapes I've beenbuying from this area, in the
area over here.
(04:16):
This is a vineyard in HarBracha that has very high
acidity.
Okay, so it fits for rosé.
I've been making rosé out of aMerlot for a couple years.
We're very happy with it.
And Be'ezrat Hashem willcontinue.
And the last one.
S. Simon Jacob (04:33):
The next one is a red wine, a GSM.
Chaim Sackton (04:38):
It's a light wine .
It's very nice.
The grapes are actually notfrom this area.
They're from up north, from theGalil.
What should I say about it?
S. Simon Jacob (04:48):
It's a real Grenache, Syrah, Morvedrah, yes,
okay.
Chaim Sackton (04:52):
Yes, the percentages are more Grenache
and Syrah less.
I mean more Grenache, moreMourvèdre as a drop of Syrah.
Okay, it's basically a GrenacheI love.
S. Simon Jacob (05:05):
Grenache-heavy wines.
I love wines that have a lot ofGrenache because they're very
light and they're just beautiful.
Chaim Sackton (05:12):
So you'll like this wine.
It's almost a rosé and thetaste I mean it's a red wine and
it has the qualities of redwine, but it's very light.
I pushed it a lot before LeilaSeder for people that have a
(05:33):
hard time drinking heavy winesThe 4Cups, and it worked.
S. Simon Jacob (05:35):
So what's the alcohol level?
13.
It's 13.
Okay, it's 13.
Okay.
Chaim Sackton (05:38):
Cool.
It's not always about thealcohol level.
It's about the soaking of thegrapes, and Grenache is a grape,
so it doesn't have to be.
It's not about the alcohollevel.
Usually, when you have highalcohol, it means the grapes
were harvested later, but notalways Grenache is one of my
favorite varietals.
Okay, so I'm happy I have it.
It's the first GSM I ever made.
S. Simon Jacob (06:02):
This next level.
How many levels are there?
Four.
This next level.
How many levels are there?
There's four, four okay.
Chaim Sackton (06:08):
The next one is called Nachal Yabok.
Nachal Yabok is the border ofGilad and Bashan.
Obviously we still have thatNachal today.
We have Yaakov Avinu.
We know he passed in Ma'avalYabok, so it's a famous name In
the series of Nachi Yabok.
(06:29):
I have a straight cab and Ihave a blend, a blend Bordeaux,
it's Cab Merlot, P etit,Bordeaux, cool.
So these two are just a little.
I would say.
You know, more of a wine, redwine, full body has, I would say
in Hebrew, more nachachut.
Itzak Stern (06:50):
So that's the nachachut Presence I was going
to say presence.
Chaim Sackton (06:53):
Okay, yes, cool.
And these are aged.
Also, the first series, theMidbah, is aged for 12 months.
The red wine, these are agedfor 14 months.
Age of Do Age of Niel Ros redwine, these are aged for 14
months.
Aged, how long?
Aged?
Aged an hour, oh, rosé and thewhite are 2024.
So these are not aged inbarrels at all, okay, but the
(07:14):
GSM is the GSM is aged for 12months.
Yeah, the Nachal Ebrok is agedfor 14 months.
Okay, the next one is these twoI have something called Betzer,
so a series of the name Betzeris a little bit deeper.
Because you don't have it,you're not going to find a name
(07:36):
Betzer today in the Gilad region.
Yep, because it doesn't.
I mean, it's an ancient name,it's brought down in Sefer
Bamidbar is Betzer Bamidbar.
It was in Ir Miklat.
Okay, oh wow, so it was an IrLevim that they went to.
S. Simon Jacob (07:54):
It was appropriate with the Dafyomi.
We just went through all of IrMiklat.
Chaim Sackton (08:00):
So you had Betzer Bamidbar.
Yeah, so Betzer is I looked itup basically where it's located.
It's more to the right, it's ontop of the Dead Sea, like Nach
Leibok is all the way up north,I would say the furthest part of
Gilad.
So Betzel is more on the southside of Gilad region.
(08:24):
Okay, so that's another name Itook from Gilad.
The next wine is something outof the box.
If you look at the label, it'salso totally different.
Yeah, I made a wine over hereand usually I make a wine.
(08:45):
All these wines are 20.
I mean, this is 2023.
This is 2021, and I'm comingout with my 23s very soon.
Yes, because the Betzer is agedfor 18 months in a barrel.
Okay, so I still have the 2023still in the barrel.
I'm about to bottle it.
22 you didn't do at all.
22, I didn't make wine.
So the Heritage was a wine thatI made and I wouldn't say it
(09:12):
didn't come out good.
But after I aged it, the grapeswere very good and I aged it
for two years in a barrel andafter tasting it after two years
, the barrel was just too muchand I couldn't the value of what
I invested in the wine.
I could not sell it for theprice I wanted to sell it for,
okay.
So I continued to age it foranother two years until I felt
(09:36):
it was worth to sell it.
Yeah, and then I went to agraphic artist and I asked them
to just give me something out ofthe box, nothing to do with my
winery, something you know likeon top of everything.
So I came up with the nameHeritage.
So that's it, and it's a blendof Cab and Petit Verdot, 24
(10:01):
months in a barrel.
Not only in a barrel, it'sactually in new barrels.
So it's a very high investmentand I'm very proud of the
product.
S. Simon Jacob (10:12):
So, at the end of all of it, this is almost
like the flagship of what you do.
This is my flagship, this isyour flagship.
Chaim Sackton (10:19):
Yes, I didn't come out with Heritage since 19.
Okay, I mean, we went through20, 21, 22, I didn't make one
23,.
I didn't make 2024,.
I have enough quality wine thatI could come out with another
heritage, heritage.
Okay, it's all about quality.
Okay, that's what it's about.
So that's why you weren't happywith it before.
(10:41):
I wasn't happy with it, notbecause it was not a good wine.
I wasn't happy with it becausethe quality was so high and I
could tell by the grape whattype of wine I'm going to get
Over here.
I knew I'm going to get a300-shekel bottle of wine Right
After two years in the bottle ittastes to me like a 100-shekel
bottle of wine.
Okay, and that was my problem.
S. Simon Jacob (11:02):
It wasn't approachable After two years in
the barrel.
Chaim Sackton (11:11):
After two years it was.
I can't really explain in wordswhat it was.
It's hard to explain.
I don't know what it was.
It was just the flavors weretoo mellow, the barrel took over
, it was very, very woody andyou couldn't taste the fruit.
And then, two years more Twoyears more in the bottle changed
the form of the wine to a wholedifferent world.
S. Simon Jacob (11:33):
So I've heard that in the barrel as well.
I've heard that in the barrelas well that even if you leave
it in the barrel, give it more,it ends up flipping.
That Interesting.
Chaim Sackton (11:47):
So the truth is, I mean I brought a winemaker
after a year that was in thebarrel Because it was new
barrels, the whole thing.
Usually I don't do in all theseseries, I don't do everything
new barrels.
I do a third of new barrels,the rest of used ones.
That's not even you's a, it's anormal thing.
Now this was a very highinvestment and I put 24 new
(12:10):
barrels and I brought awinemaker.
I told him the wine tastes likewood and there's such a thing,
you know there's really.
It's like tamina gharia.
It's like a carpenter, like toomuch, like why, why to do that?
And I was like it tastes likewood and he's like it's going to
calm.
And he's like it's going tocalm down.
Put it for another year.
It's going to calm down evenmore.
(12:30):
It didn't make sense, I know,but it does.
It's crazy.
S. Simon Jacob (12:35):
It took another two years.
So it wasn't in the bottle, itwas actually in the barrel.
You left it for four years.
Chaim Sackton (12:41):
No, I bottled it after two years.
After two years I decided it'sgoing to bottling.
After the bottling, I wait amonth, two months, bottling
shock, and then I see the wineis not proving itself and it's
just not worth it.
So you just left it.
So I just left it, cool, I keptit in storage and it took me a
(13:02):
long time to, you know, come upwith a name, label and the whole
thing.
Now it also has a nice box.
So it took, besides the timethat I had to wait, it took two
years and then another couple ofmonths and baruch hashan now
it's out on the market.
So you feel very happy aboutthis one.
Yes, I'm happy.
I mean, I'm happy with all ofthem.
No, I know.
S. Simon Jacob (13:19):
I know, I know I get it.
This is so what is?
Tell me a little bit about thisone, because it's a cab.
The Petit Verdot is really anincredible grape as well, so
tell me what this blend achieves.
What does it come out like?
Chaim Sackton (13:37):
So this is.
I mean, I'll tell you something.
Sometimes it's the opposite ofthe wines that I make, because I
make lighter wines and I wouldso call it easier to drink.
This is kind of the opposite.
This is full body, it's notlight, it's super heavy.
(13:59):
The Petit Verdot is strong inhere there's 40% of Petit Verdot
, so it's there.
And also is strong in here it's40% of Petit Verdot, so it's
there and also the two years inthe barrel that gave a lot to
the wine.
And the main thing is there'stwo vineyards of the Petit
(14:19):
Verdot in the camp.
They were very special, justvery, very special, and I've
been buying the same grapes foryears after this and I didn't
get the same quality.
Where are they located?
So the Petit Verdot is in KaremBen Zimra and the Cab is in
Safsufa.
Okay, so they're both UpperGalil, right there.
The Betzer 21 is a straightPetit Verdot, it's 100% Petit
(14:44):
Verdot.
It's also full body becauseit's a straight Petit Verdot.
It's 100% Petit Verdot.
It's also full body becauseit's a full.
It's a straight Petit Verdotand it's the same vineyard also.
S. Simon Jacob (14:53):
It's not like the Petit Verdot that went into
this.
Chaim Sackton (14:55):
That was a better quality.
Okay, I mean, I decided to goon a straight Petit Verdot over
here, but the quality over herewas a drop higher.
Very cool.
S. Simon Jacob (15:07):
How did you get here?
You know what's the originstory Because a number of the
people who listen to my podcastI guess the majority of people
who listen to the podcast comefrom America and they are from
the US and they are.
There's a whole bunch of peoplewho are wannabe winemakers.
They would love to come toIsrael, especially, and make
(15:29):
wine.
Tell me a little bit about how.
What drove you, how did you gethere and how did you start
making wine?
Chaim Sackton (15:38):
Okay, so I was born and raised in Israel Cool,
let's start with that.
My parents made Aliyah and Igot into the wine through my
father.
Actually, my father makes wineup to today.
Okay, he started in the 70s.
So he started and the idea of,just, you know, having wine as
(16:02):
something was missing in theworld, and he never opened up a
winery, he just made his ownwine, okay, and I was, you know,
I was helping him make the winefor a couple of years.
At a certain point I decided I'mgoing to open up my own winery.
I mean, it took me a lot oftime because I went to study
therapy, I went to do a lot ofother things before I decided to
(16:25):
become a winemaker.
It was not my first thing to goto, okay, and also when I went
to study the wine.
So I realized it's a toughbusiness.
It's just it's hard to makemoney out of it.
Right, it's agriculture.
It's basically I'm taking anagriculture fruit and turning it
into another agriculture thingand then go sell it.
(16:47):
So that's the hard part aboutit.
The fun part about it is I lovemaking wine, I love drinking
wine and also the idea of, justyou know, seeing the form of
taking a grape and turning itinto something much higher.
So that's very special, and thewhole.
Today I don't do so much aboutthe lab because I send it to
(17:10):
outside labs, but just the wholething of the physics of the lab
is very, very interesting.
It's fascinating so that thatdraw me into it.
S. Simon Jacob (17:20):
Did you have a specific vision in founding the
winery, a vision as to where youwanted to go with it?
Chaim Sackton (17:31):
Yes, I would say it because I have all different
types of wines over here.
My vision when I went to schooland also my vision making wine
was always going on the lighterside.
That means less soaking, lessalcohol, making a lighter wine.
That's just fun to drink andnot always has to fit with food,
(17:53):
just as itself.
I like drinking wine.
I don't have to fit the winewith a piece of meat or a piece
of cheese.
I don't have to down the wine,I have to enjoy just drinking
the wine itself.
I don't have to down the wine,I have to enjoy just drinking
the wine itself.
S. Simon Jacob (18:10):
My wines are less acidic or I would call it,
on the higher side of the… thefruity, yeah, the fruitiness,
okay.
Chaim Sackton (18:16):
The thing is with sales sometimes it's opposite.
So I do have the two types.
I have to give the clienteleboth, the whole world basically.
So let's say the GSM is morethe wine that I would go to,
more than the Heritage thatthey're triple the price.
(18:37):
The Heritage is triple theprice.
I would go to the GSM becausethat's me.
I like the lighter wines.
They're easier, they're fun, Ican enjoy it.
So I started off my love withlight wines.
I started off with a straight,more vet, okay, um, I opened up
the winery over here in 2016,the first vintage.
I made wine over here.
(18:58):
But I've been, like I said,I've been making wine with my
father for years, I think since2003.
So I was working with,basically back then we had one
farmer we would get all ourgrapes from.
He was a guy in Moshav, matah,and I used to sit with him a lot
and he would always talk aboutmaking light wines.
(19:20):
You know picking the grapesearly and before getting all
these fun.
You know picking the grapesearly and before getting all
these fun.
You know not waiting too longon the tree, picking it early
and making a nice light wine outof it and a lot of my focus was
on the Morved.
I actually made Morved for acouple of years straight, morved
(19:41):
for a couple of years straight,and sales were hard, so I
stopped.
S. Simon Jacob (19:48):
People are coming around to the varietals.
Now, today it's coming back ina certain way.
Chaim Sackton (19:53):
So I did make a Morved and I decided it's going
to be easier for me to sell iton the name of GSM more than a
straight Mourvedre.
Itzak Stern (20:03):
Maybe one day I'll come back to it.
Chaim Sackton (20:05):
That's the thing I mean.
My cab still has the highestdemand, yeah but that's people
so it just is.
That's what they are.
S. Simon Jacob (20:15):
They do that.
So that's what I'm saying.
Chaim Sackton (20:17):
I have to have the cab on my list and that's
part of it, and I actually haveit on the lower series also
because I want to have the cabso people could buy it, but it's
not my one.
I mean, I like cab but it's notmy first go-to.
S. Simon Jacob (20:33):
So you've gotten a lot of incredible feedback
about your Petit Verdot.
That's been something that'sbeen.
You get a lot of acclaim fromwhat I've seen.
How did you pick the amount ofaging?
Because Petit Verdot is auniquely kind of powerful grape.
Chaim Sackton (20:58):
I taste the wines , I would say once in four or
five months, throughout thebarrels, yeah, and then I decide
, I start deciding.
Then I start deciding whichwine is going to what series.
I mean, obviously, when I getthe grapes I already know what
series I'm making, so I knowwhere the grapes are going to.
(21:21):
But if, let's say, I would havea Petit Verdot, I have someone
who goes to the Nachal Yabok,that's one series, that's a
lower series and it's a blend.
And I have the Petit Verdot,that's a straight Petit Verdot.
So that obviously has to go tothe higher series and it has to
be very, very high qualitybecause it's just a straight
(21:42):
Petit Verdot.
So that I do, after a couple ofmonths of sitting in the barrel
, I do a tasting and I rate thebarrels.
I did, let's say, the pastvintage.
I got three different petitverdeaus.
So I go back and I'm saying,from the grapes I know which
(22:03):
ones are my professional ones, Iknow which ones are the higher
quality ones and thoseautomatically are going to go to
the higher quality wines.
S. Simon Jacob (22:11):
But after a couple of months in the barrel
you could start tasting adifference and sometimes there's
surprises, so are thosesurprises… Tell me about one
unconventional decision you madein the cellar that really
surprised you.
Chaim Sackton (22:32):
That's a good question.
Itzak Stern (22:34):
I would even say maybe this decision here, which
is conventional in Rioja, butthe idea of getting your wine
and saying it's not ready forrelease and leaving it two years
in a bottle before releasing it, that's unconventional for
Israel a lot of times.
S. Simon Jacob (22:47):
Yeah, it's really unconventional, but there
are other places where it'sdictventional for Israel a lot
of times.
Itzak Stern (22:48):
Yeah Right, it's really unconventional, but there
are other places where it'sdictated by the Appalachian.
Chaim Sackton (22:51):
Right.
But this was a financialdecision because I just couldn't
sell it for 100 shekels.
I knew the price was going tobe much higher if I would age it
.
S. Simon Jacob (23:03):
Rosh Hashanah, do you rack the wines out of the
barrels?
Chaim Sackton (23:08):
It depends on the year.
Okay, yes, I do.
Okay, after six months or aftereight months, I taste the
barrels, yeah, and then I createthe blends.
Okay, so that means I'm rackingit Right.
Okay, it usually happens thistime of year.
S. Simon Jacob (23:24):
Are any of the wines that you manufacture, that
you produce, manufacture thatyou produce?
Are any of those wines you feellike they're underappreciated,
that you feel like this isreally a special wine?
Chaim Sackton (23:41):
No, I think it's interesting because I'm the one
who decides the price of thewine, right, and when you get
into pricing.
So that's basically it'sappreciation, right.
So there's a lot of thingsbehind that.
It's I want the market to havea cheaper wine, I want that
market to have an expensive wine.
There's a lot of things behindit, but there's also a lot of
(24:03):
appreciation, a lot ofappreciation, and even in a
100-shekel bottle, I wouldexpect it to have less
appreciation, and it's gettingmore appreciation than what I
would expect.
S. Simon Jacob (24:22):
So we're on the opposite side.
Okay, in going through thewines, what's the volume of
wines that you produce?
Because it looks like you'reproducing a lot more than I
thought you were.
Chaim Sackton (24:34):
Okay, so I'm a small winery.
Yeah, I just grew.
I started off with 10,000bottles, yeah, that's a good
level.
S. Simon Jacob (24:44):
To be honest, for a small wineryery, 10 000
bottles is actually prettyreasonable.
Chaim Sackton (24:50):
10 000 bottles is reasonable.
If I would sell all the wineout of the winery, right?
Um, I sell also to the us andalso in israel through
distributors, so I have to grow.
Uh, right now I'm holding byalmost 20 000.
That's why there's nowhere tomove in here, right, and
(25:10):
hopefully we're going to grow.
My head is going towards thegrowth.
That's where we're going to, soin the next five years.
S. Simon Jacob (25:22):
What's the plan To build a bigger winery In the?
Chaim Sackton (25:26):
next five years we're going to have a bigger
winery and hopefully we're.
We're going to have Bizrat Asim, a bigger winery and hopefully
we're going to hold by 50,000bottles and a beautiful visiting
center.
S. Simon Jacob (25:35):
Please, god, I love this location, though I'm
just telling you To look outover the mountains and down
across towards Jordan into theJordan Valley is just awesome
from here.
Itzak Stern (25:51):
You can see my house from here.
I'm not even kidding when yousay, oh, I can see my house from
there.
When you go out to the streethere and you look across the
Wadi Kelt, you can actually seealone where I live.
Chaim Sackton (26:02):
So I planted a vineyard over here.
That's also part of the nextvision of the winery.
It's not just having a winery,it's having your own vineyards.
It's also the fruit, also theproduce of what I'm getting.
I'll have a little bit morecontrol.
And another thing is more of atourist is bringing people and
(26:23):
having the experience of notjust the winery, it's also the
agriculture, bringing them outto see the vineyards, see the
trees throughout the year.
It's very interesting.
When did you move here?
S. Simon Jacob (26:35):
12 years ago.
Chaim Sackton (26:36):
Wow, it must have been all alone 12 years ago,
there were 25 families over hereRight now we're 100 families,
but they built all of a fivefamilies over here.
Right now we're 100 families.
S. Simon Jacob (26:48):
Yeah, but they built all of a dome.
Chaim Sackton (26:53):
It developed in the past 10 years like crazy.
It changed the value of theproperty was nothing.
We had no paved roads.
I went through two or threecars that you know that just
driving on these dirt roads itjust kills the car.
We had no mikveh.
(27:14):
We had no playground.
My older kids, they wentthrough childhood without
planning a playground Nothing.
S. Simon Jacob (27:23):
You live in a playground.
You're in the mountains, yes,but sometimes the small things.
Chaim Sackton (27:29):
My wife does yoga and so these small things that
kids hang on a ladder, it'simportant Today we have it.
Itzak Stern (27:38):
Falling from a ladder is important too.
Falling from a ladder.
S. Simon Jacob (27:41):
Yeah.
Chaim Sackton (27:42):
These small things.
S. Simon Jacob (27:44):
So one of the things that you've built your
reputation on is like reallyvery high quality hands-on.
So one of the things, one ofthe responsibilities with
scaling, is to keep thathands-on.
Chaim Sackton (27:57):
Right.
So I would say that basically,good wine comes from good grapes
.
Yeah, and my job is basicallyto make sure I'm getting good
grapes.
Every single year, I do try toget the same vineyards that I
work with.
That's how I know I'm gettingmy same grapes and also the same
taste, more so-called same areaof taste, same idea of wine.
(28:21):
So I do have already.
For a couple of years I've beenworking with the same vineyards
and I know what I'm getting,and that's the point.
The point is to continue withquality, or focus on quality as
much as possible.
S. Simon Jacob (28:36):
So in your mind, wine is made in the vineyard or
wine is made in the winery.
Chaim Sackton (28:43):
It's a very good question, but basically wine is
made in the winery.
I help some people make wineand that means that they're
getting my same quality grapesand I can't drink their wine.
So the answer is wine is madein the winery.
The winemaker's job is not toruin the good grapes, so there's
(29:03):
a lot of people that just ruinit, Right, but the process of
making the wine is obviouslyit's a job Very cool.
S. Simon Jacob (29:14):
Let's taste some .
Can we taste Sure?
What would you suggest we tastefirst?
Chaim Sackton (29:21):
I'll ask Yitzchak , because he did taste the wines
, and I'll ask him what hethinks.
Itzak Stern (29:29):
I would say first of all.
I mean the GSM is a must andthe Rosé was very good.
S. Simon Jacob (29:34):
Did you taste the Chemin?
Itzak Stern (29:36):
yes, between that and the Rosé, I prefer the Rosé,
but all three were very goodand the GSM I found was like he
said you know people, you expectone thing and people are blown
away by it.
Chaim Sackton (29:47):
I definitely underestimated the GSM, I found,
was like you said you expectone thing and people are blown
away by it.
I definitely underestimated theGSM.
It's so-called up to a stagethat I didn't make it again.
That means I passed thevineyard, basically if it's aged
for 12 months in a bottle.
So from making the wine untilgetting it into the bottle,
we're talking about 15, 16months.
(30:10):
That means I passed the 2024vintage and I decided I'm not
making the GSM because I was not.
It was underestimated.
S. Simon Jacob (30:20):
Okay, and now, when you're tasting it.
Itzak Stern (30:22):
Now, when I'm tasting it, there's going to be
a 2025.
Chaim Sackton (30:26):
There will be a 2025.
Hopefully it will even come outbetter.
This is the first GSM, so we'llfocus on it even higher Wow.
S. Simon Jacob (30:34):
Okay, I'd love to try it.
I'd love to try it.
Chaim Sackton (30:37):
Okay, so we got some cheeses.
It might work a little bit, youknow to, even though the GSM
most of my wines don't need food, but it goes.
Itzak Stern (30:47):
You haven't seen the vineyard yet, right?
No, I think, chaim, if you havetime for that, or if not, I can
show them as well.
Yeah, we should go out to thevineyard.
It's a vineyard with the mostbeautiful view I've seen and
then, oh, I checked out after.
I left last time I went to checkout the other, the Golani thing
.
Andarta, like a memorial thatthey made for 41 soldiers, 13,
(31:11):
right, yeah, for the 13thBattalion of Golani.
Absolutely beautiful For thosewho were killed during Iron
Swords.
Wow, right next to yourvineyard, okay so, we're trying
now the GSM this is the GSM.
Chaim Sackton (31:29):
Yes, you could see the colors, yeah, and I can
smell it too.
S. Simon Jacob (31:38):
That's really lovely.
Itzak Stern (31:43):
I find it's like incredibly smooth.
We have that tart cherry andeven a little bit of like
something herbaceous, like alittle bit of green.
S. Simon Jacob (31:51):
Yeah.
Itzak Stern (31:52):
But it's just nice.
S. Simon Jacob (31:54):
The thing that's crazy with it is the finish.
The finish is just really,really lovely.
I think you spot on picked theflavors coming off of it, the
what no, he was describing itwith the cherry and the green
(32:17):
herbaceousness as well A littlebit of greenness to it.
Itzak Stern (32:27):
Yeah, was one of the varieties harvested earlier,
or I think the Syrah.
It would make sense.
Yeah, you're also getting onthe nose a little bit of that
Syrah, like the pepper, eventhough you said it's a very
small amount of Syrah in here.
Chaim Sackton (32:41):
Yeah, but yeah, but it's it's like 17% oh okay,
okay, it's not like three.
Itzak Stern (32:47):
No, okay, no, it's not like three.
No, okay, it's definitely there.
S. Simon Jacob (32:53):
It is, it's lovely.
Itzak Stern (32:54):
Wow.
Chaim Sackton (32:57):
On the Hebrew label, I didn't write the
amounts.
On the English label, I had towrite the amounts.
S. Simon Jacob (33:06):
Who do you sell through in the United States?
Emerald?
Chaim Sackton (33:08):
Okay, ari Okay.
S. Simon Jacob (33:16):
Wow.
So where is it available in theUS, across the whole US or
mainly in the New Yorkmetropolitan area?
Chaim Sackton (33:29):
Mostly in the tri-state area.
Itzak Stern (33:32):
But guess who just got it?
Who, our buddy Elk?
Oh really, oh yeah, okay, chaimdidn't know.
I'm like, just so you know,you've just hit South Florida,
yeah, and hopefully make asplash Right.
Chaim Sackton (33:43):
So I think most of it is still sold in the
tri-state area.
But I mean, I think most of itis still sold in the tri-state
area, but they're working ongetting out there.
Itzak Stern (33:49):
The reason I ended up here is because Elk texted me
and said hey, listen, I orderedhis wines.
I ordered Chaim's wines and Ihad these two.
I tasted the two heavier reds,the Nachal Yabok reds.
S. Simon Jacob (34:03):
I think, I believe it was.
Itzak Stern (34:04):
And he said but I ordered all of them, but I
haven't tasted the Midba series.
Do me a favor, can you driveout there, taste them and let me
know?
S. Simon Jacob (34:12):
yeah, but you know, you'll find that anyways
he goes.
Itzak Stern (34:14):
I need the peace of mind.
Yeah, so I realized it wasclose to my home and I let him
know.
You know, two thumbs up andyou're good to go.
What else can we try it?
I would say either the 100% oreven the Nachal Rabok has 33%.
Petit Verdot, it's actually 34,33, 33.
(34:34):
Okay.
S. Simon Jacob (34:35):
So what's the combination?
Itzak Stern (34:37):
Well, this one is Cab Merlot Petit Verdot.
Okay, really, at a third, third, third.
And then the Betzer is 100%Petit Verdot.
I would say one of those twohonestly, or even here Syrah
Petit.
Chaim Sackton (34:50):
Verdot.
So we're moving up to the nextwine.
Yes, could we Sure that?
Itzak Stern (34:58):
What do you recommend?
Something with a Verde blend?
I would say, Okay, One, two,three or four.
Chaim Sackton (35:07):
I do want to taste the heritage last.
That's why, okay, so the blend,it's still on the.
I mean it's a Verde blend, yeah, but it's not.
I wouldn't call it a veryfull-body wine.
It's somewhere.
It's also a lighter one.
It's also almond wines are onthe lighter side.
(35:27):
I mean even the straight PetitBordeaux, because I don't soak
the grapes for too long.
That's the thing.
So don't expect from it to be,I mean, it's way, it's red wine,
it's not a GSM, but you're notgoing to have a heavy Petit
Verdot taste.
So we're going for this.
Let's try it.
Itzak Stern (35:51):
I found it very interesting, though, that it's
really like a third of the wine,right, it's not like a mainly
Cabernet Merlot, with a littlebit, it's a third.
A third like a mainly Cabernet.
Merlot with a little bit, it's,it's 33 33.
Chaim Sackton (36:02):
It's fascinating.
So over here, automatically thesmell is already more fruity.
You have a much full-bodiedsmell.
But it's already deeper yeah,deeper smells, but I had this on
Chavez.
Itzak Stern (36:18):
It was very light by the way I had your GSM on
Chavez.
It was very well accepted.
You're right, it's not what youwould expect.
You'd expect something you know, especially when you see the
cab more tannin and heavy.
Chaim Sackton (36:37):
And this is just nice, it's fun and gentle, I'm
making this blend, I would say,since 2018.
Same blend and they're justamazing.
I mean, I love it.
Itzak Stern (36:59):
Definitely follows what you were saying.
You know your vision and yourpreferred style of wine drinking
and then, by extension,winemaking.
Chaim Sackton (37:06):
Right, that's what it is.
This represents the Gilad.
Itzak Stern (37:11):
Absolutely Philosophy, yeah, philosophy,
there you go Very cool.
S. Simon Jacob (37:17):
Yeah, delicious it is.
Chaim Sackton (37:19):
It's delicious as well, I know it's delicious
that I know it doesn't fiteverybody's taste buds, like you
were saying.
You see a cab, you expect it tobe super full tannins and round
(37:41):
and this whole thing.
It's like it's not kicking you.
So it's friendly, approachable,approachable, definitely
approachable.
Itzak Stern (37:54):
Okay, totally approachable, simon.
If I learned anything abouttasting wine from your story
with the orange wines, simon, ifI learned anything about
tasting wine from your storywith the orange wines you can't
approach a wine with a definedcategory in your head because it
just might not fit and thenyou'll think it's not as good.
Right, just approach a wine asit is.
Sometimes it's its own category100%.
S. Simon Jacob (38:15):
I agree, I really agree.
Chaim Sackton (38:18):
So that was the thing when I started selling
wine.
I would tell people you can'tapproach my wine with
expectations because you don'tknow the wine.
But then they approach it andthey're like it's not my style.
So I was like, okay, that'swhat it is.
If you're looking for afull-body wine, this is not the
style you're looking for it is.
If you're looking for afull-body wine, this is not the
(38:39):
style you're looking for.
S. Simon Jacob (38:42):
It's a little sad that we get caught up in
these boxes that we create inour minds and don't open up to
appreciate something a littlebit new and different.
Flum came out with their whitelabel because of that.
He was tired of people tellinghim that, no, they're not
(39:05):
drinking the wine, they won'tlike it.
What do you mean?
You won't like it?
I read the label, I don't needto, I won't like it.
And he said to be fair, don'tread the label, just taste the
wine.
And it was like it was a bigdeal.
Itzak Stern (39:21):
I was saying, it drives me crazy.
You know, from the industry,sometimes I'm thinking like this
wine's good and that wine'sgood.
Why do you need so many winesand so many wineries?
You know, if it was all blind,I need a wine with my steak.
I'll get you it'll pair, it'llbe fine.
But then suddenly we want thereto be a Yakiv Gilad and we want
there to be a Yaakov Gilad andwe want there to be a Yaakov
Agur and we want there to be aCastel Winery and all these
wineries specifically because oftheir story.
(39:42):
I think it adds so much to it.
So I guess I'm on the fencethere with the blind.
S. Simon Jacob (39:48):
Yeah, no, it's interesting.
I agree that a blind tastingyou should be able to do a blind
tasting and just come up withwhat you think is the best wine,
but there's something to besaid about sitting down and
knowing what you're drinking.
I've just found that I guess Ihave a bias that's built in,
though I try very hard to keepmy my mind a little bit opened
(40:12):
or a lot opened so that's.
That's also a lovely one it'seasy in this case yeah, yep
that's that's the.
Itzak Stern (40:23):
That's also a lovely wine.
Chaim Sackton (40:24):
It's easy in this case, yeah, yep, that's the
good wine.
S. Simon Jacob (40:32):
So now we're going to try the heritage.
Chaim Sackton (40:35):
Now we're going to try the heritage.
Just want to put wax on theheritage, the stamps.
Itzak Stern (40:40):
Also over here, but also on on the that you showed
me.
Chaim Sackton (40:42):
with the I have, I have a stamp let's see this
stamp on the wax yeah and I havea stamp also for my bags um.
I have this cardboard bag likepaper cardboard bag bag a bag,
yeah, paper bag.
S. Simon Jacob (40:58):
Okay.
Chaim Sackton (40:59):
Yeah, so instead I buy it blank and then I put my
stamp on it Right, so thatgives that logo lends itself to
be a stamp, a raw stamp.
Right.
So in this one I also put, Iwould say, a cork, a real cork,
the Chamale, yeah, really Wow.
(41:20):
The truth is I wouldn't say I'mdisappointed, but I'm happy I
work with these corks.
What's your usual cork?
This is.
It's called Vink.
It's a compressed cork, very,very high quality.
You could look at it.
It just it can last, for I meanthey have different ones that
(41:46):
different years, but I'm sayingit could sit in the bottle for
five, five to ten years and itlooks good.
The whole corks are somehow.
It's on a scale.
Not all of them are good.
These were very expensive.
These works I because is itbecause I knew it's an expensive
(42:08):
bottle?
I had to invest.
It's part of the game?
Yep, absolutely so, it's partof the game.
Someone opens up a bottle.
You have the black color overhere, right?
It's like it talks to you in acertain way.
So, yes, every bottle of wine Iopen up would look at the cork
and even smell the cork.
S. Simon Jacob (42:28):
Yeah.
Chaim Sackton (42:29):
So that's why, also, I keep them laying down to
have it damp and to have thewine on the cork.
It does something to it, itrepresents something, so in a
certain way it did a job.
But on the otherk, it doessomething to it, it represents
something, so in a certain wayit did a job, but on the other
hand, I don't really believe init.
S. Simon Jacob (42:45):
It's like so this is super, super deep.
Chaim Sackton (42:57):
You can see the difference like two different
worlds.
Itzak Stern (43:01):
Heavier, but like silky kind of mouthfeel, like it
fills your mouth.
S. Simon Jacob (43:05):
Right, the tannins are very strongly there,
so this has been.
Chaim Sackton (43:15):
This is a 2019.
Yeah, it's 24 months in abarrel Yep, 24 months in a
bottle, and now it's out 2019.
Yeah, it's 24 months in abarrel yep, 24 months in a
bottle, and now it's out forsale.
So I took, I mean, it's alreadyfive years from the harvest
right and it still has a way togo.
(43:39):
Yeah, definitely, yeah,absolutely.
There's a long way to go.
Before Pesach I had a lot ofsales with this and I told a
couple of stores that I didn'tmake it.
I didn't repeat the winemakingagain because I didn't have such
quality wine, so they saidthey're going to put away.
Itzak Stern (44:02):
It's like Bring it out in a few years yeah.
Chaim Sackton (44:06):
So soon I'm going to run out of the wine and some
stores are going to have it.
S. Simon Jacob (44:12):
That happens, that's part of life.
Itzak Stern (44:14):
I love when that happens, when you have, like, a
winemaker tasting and somebodypulls out a bottle that he
hasn't seen in years because hiswinery ran out and the stores
ran out and you've beensellering it.
I love when that happens, whenyou have a winemaker tasting and
somebody pulls out a bottlethat he hasn't seen in years
because his winery ran out andthe stores ran out and you've
been cellaring it.
It's like wow.
S. Simon Jacob (44:32):
I can't believe it's still in To blow the
winemaker's mind with his ownwine that he hasn't seen in
years is always a very specialexperience.
Right, that's what I typicallydo.
Yeah, exactly, I have winesthat some of the wineries don't
have anymore.
They've gotten better, so it'sreally I'm thankful.
Chaim Sackton (44:49):
Right.
People ask me all the time whyI don't age wines, and my answer
is it's not my business.
S. Simon Jacob (44:55):
Your business is to make wine and sell it Right.
Chaim Sackton (44:59):
And people like they say it's going to be much
better, the value is going to beperfect.
S. Simon Jacob (45:03):
That's exactly why you want to sell it Buy?
Chaim Sackton (45:05):
it and put it away.
If you think so, buy it and putit away, because it's not my
business.
I mean, I do keep just forstorage, but not.
The amounts I have are nothing.
Itzak Stern (45:21):
Would you, I wonder what your response would be
like if you saw your wines goingagain later like a secondhand
market, right Like in 10 yearsyou've sold this this year, next
year, god willing, you're donewith it.
10 years you see people startselling this as like a very high
value.
Chaim Sackton (45:37):
I'd be very happy , thrilled, yeah, yeah, I mean,
it proved itself.
That means that it made it.
First thing is my name is goingin front of me, expensive,
wines.
I tell people expensive wines isnot about quality, it's about
name.
And I mean, this is anexpensive bottle of wine.
(45:58):
So there's one thing is Icreated a name so people can
trust me that I'm making goodwines.
For the past 10 years, baruchHashem I could say, okay, I came
out with an expensive bottle ofwine.
Second thing is let's continuein that way and let's see where
it's going to be holding.
If somebody's going to takethis bottle three, four years
from now and sell it for I meanbottle three, four years from
(46:18):
now and sell it for I mean,let's say, 100% more, so it
would make me happy.
S. Simon Jacob (46:26):
It means the wine actually is holding, but
it's not my business.
Chaim Sackton (46:30):
My business is to sell wine.
I can't hold on to wine for toolong.
S. Simon Jacob (46:35):
Of the wine that you've produced from Gilad, if
you had any of those wines.
Yes, if you had any of thosewines, which wine would you pick
to open tonight and who wouldyou open it with?
Chaim Sackton (46:54):
So we're talking about a series of different
wines and each one has adifferent flavor.
Now, tonight means just aregular day in the middle of the
week of opening up a bottle ofwine.
So I would always go on thelighter side.
Okay, because it's easier todrink, it's fun, and we're
(47:17):
talking about sitting down witha friend for dinner.
Even without dinner, justsitting on a bottle of wine,
smoking a cigar, I would alwaysgo on the lighter side.
Um, I wouldn't.
I would not go on the rose andthe whites because, like at
night time, if we're all about,yeah, at night time, so I would
definitely prefer the reds.
S. Simon Jacob (47:36):
yep, I'll go for a gsm the gsm, yeah, and what
would you pair with that forfood?
Chaim Sackton (47:43):
So I'll tell you something out of the box.
Okay, I prefer to drink lightwines with food than full-body
wines with food.
Yeah, in a certain way youwould think that the Heritage
would go with a good piece ofsteak, because they're both a
lot of flavors and very deepflavors.
On the other hand, is I'mblocking the flavors because I'm
(48:05):
not getting the full potentialof each one, because I'm
blocking the flavors becausethey're both full body.
If I take a steak and I woulddrink it with a light wine, in a
certain way it's going to godown much easier.
S. Simon Jacob (48:21):
You know what I would drink with this?
You know what I would drinkwith this?
You know what I would eat withthis?
Let me see Chocolate chipcookies.
Itzak Stern (48:26):
I was going to say dark chocolate.
Chocolate chip cookies.
That was close.
S. Simon Jacob (48:29):
I love chocolate chip cookies with a heavy wine,
with a real… Absolutely, it'sjust like… Right, that's, you
know.
You can keep a steak withwhatever else, but at the end,
when I hit dessert and if Idon't have any wine left over
and we've made chocolate chipcookies, I actually almost have
(48:52):
to open a bottle of wine inorder to have dessert.
Itzak Stern (48:57):
And ideally like a fruity red.
S. Simon Jacob (49:00):
Yeah, no, yeah, a big bold red, because it just
goes.
Chaim Sackton (49:04):
Listen, dessert wines usually are full-body.
S. Simon Jacob (49:12):
I mean they could be sweet but they're very
rich with flavors.
I like those special fruity,sweet dessert wines but they
don't go with.
They don't go with.
They go with certain dessertsbut they don't go with, you know
, like chocolate chip cookies,and this would, this would do
great with it, unbelievable.
(49:32):
We're going to go take a lookat the at the we're going to
take a look at the vineyard.
I can't tell you how thankful Iam for coming out here, just
because of the breathtakingvista that surrounds this house.
It's like unbelievable.
You can see into Jordan.
You can see down towards theDead Sea.
(49:54):
I don't know if you can see theDead Sea from here.
I didn't see that.
Chaim Sackton (49:57):
Yeah, on a nice day.
It depends on the weather.
You can probably see it.
It depends on the weather.
It depends on the weather youcan actually see down into the
valley.
It's crazy, usually in themorning, so the sun shines on
the water, yes, so then you cansee the water shine back, so
it's nice.
Itzak Stern (50:14):
What I want to know is how you, the manual labor
that you do here I mean there'sa lot Do you bring guys in to
help out at times of work?
Chaim Sackton (50:24):
So there's different things I do bring.
Actually, crushing the grapes.
I have full machinery.
I could almost get all thegrapes without.
The main problem started offwith crushing the grapes is
always very high pressurebecause I'm also in the vineyard
.
I'm there physically, I'mchecking the grapes and I'm
(50:46):
dealing with trucks bringing thegrapes and it has to come as
quick as possible.
And then I have to have a lotof workers to make sure it's in
the basement as quick aspossible, because usually it's
in the middle of August.
You don't want it to get hot,so I don't want it to get hot.
So that part because usuallyit's in the middle of August,
you don't want it to get hot, Idon't want it to get hot.
That part I took care of.
I got machines.
I could literally take care ofit.
(51:06):
I could get five or six tons ofgrapes with zero pressure, Zero
.
I have a forklift.
I have a machine that flips itinto the crusher.
I have a pump.
Everything's upstairs.
I'm moving barrels down here soI do everything upstairs.
Now.
I have a long pipe that comesdown here and these vats they
(51:27):
fill up.
The barrels have to get out ofhere.
These barrels are here.
They're not supposed to be inhere.
This room is made forwinemaking, not wine aging.
My next process is I'm bottling, I'm labeling all these bottles
and I'm moving the barrels tohere.
This has to happen before thesummer.
Itzak Stern (51:48):
And then we'll get like a nice glass.
Chaim Sackton (51:51):
I'll put it in the glass.
Whatever Bottles they got toget out of here.
Yeah, he can, yeah, so, andthen the only thing is I have to
have one person.
S. Simon Jacob (52:01):
I was going to ask you where do you put the
vats?
The vats are all inside eachother.
Itzak Stern (52:05):
They're all here, they're all inside each other,
so your pipe comes down fromhere with the grape juice.
Chaim Sackton (52:10):
I have a hole in the wall.
Itzak Stern (52:11):
It'll go straight into the vats.
Chaim Sackton (52:12):
It'll go straight into the vats.
S. Simon Jacob (52:13):
But the vats have to be not inside each other
.
That's what.
I'm saying, that's why rightnow I have barrels in the room.
You're answering the question Ihad because I looked around and
I said I see the barrels and Isee the bottles and I see how
you could do it, but how in theworld were you fermenting?
Chaim Sackton (52:31):
the stuff.
So when I come to thefermenting process, yeah, all
those barrels have to be gone,the vats I have, like there's a
thousand liters and 700 liters-that's where they nest.
And the whole room is literallyyou can't walk into the room.
(52:51):
They're all like.
I leave a small path.
S. Simon Jacob (52:55):
I thought there was another room that I haven't
seen because I was wonderingthat exactly I was sitting.
I was looking around.
How in the world do you fermentanything?
Thank you, thanks for coming.
Thank you for being on theKosher Tehwah and really I'm so
happy because you're one of thepeople I really wanted to sit
(53:17):
down and talk to.
This is Simon Jacob, again yourhost of today's episode of the
Kosher Terroir.
I have a personal request nomatter where you are or where
(53:37):
you live, please take a momentto pray for our soldiers' safety
and the safe and rapid returnof our hostages.
Please subscribe via yourpodcast provider to be informed
of our new episodes as they arereleased.
If you are new to the KosherTerwa, please check out our many
past episodes.
Welcome to The Kosher Terroir.
I'm Simon Jacob, your host forthis episode from Jerusalem.
Before we get started, I askthat, wherever you are, please
take a moment and pray for thesafety of our soldiers and the
safe return of all of ourhostages.
Welcome back to The KosherTerroir, the podcast, where we
(00:41):
journey through landscapes,legends, rugged and breathtaking
.
Mountainous settlement nearGeva Benyamin, just outside of
Jerusalem, perched above steepdrops into the Jordan Valley.
This dramatic terrain is hometo Gilad Winery, a boutique gem
producing wines as elegant andnuanced as the land itself.
(01:04):
Peak gem producing wines aselegant and nuanced as the land
itself.
We're joined by Chaim Sackton,the owner and winemaker behind
Gilad Winery.
With a background in hands-onviticulture and a deep reverence
for the Mediterranean climate,Chaim crafts lighter, more
approachable wines that areperfect for this sun-drenched
(01:25):
terroir.
Adding to this journey isItzhak Stern, one of Israel's
most beloved wine tour guides.
Together, we step into thebarrel room and sip through a
collection of elegant,terroir-driven wines that define
kosher Mediterranean style.
This isn't just the tasting.
It's a story of vision, placeand passion all poured into
(01:50):
every bottle.
If you're driving in your car,please focus on the road ahead.
If you're relaxing at home,please uncork something fresh
and join us as we explore thisboutique winery known as Gilad.
Chaim Sackton (02:07):
Gilad Winery is.
We're located here in YishuvSeneh.
We're on the border of thedesert and the view looking east
is Shevet Reuven is the GiladMountain region.
S. Simon Jacob (02:21):
That was the first question I had for you.
It's such an important name.
How did you pick it for thewinery and why so?
Chaim Sackton (02:28):
when I was looking for a name, and I was
looking for a short name thatworks in English and represents
biblical and Israeli wine.
I'm not looking to be anAmerican.
I started off actually with mylast name, Sackton.
Sackton Winery, right, but it'sjust too American.
S. Simon Jacob (02:46):
That's what.
Chaim Sackton (02:47):
I thought it's just too American.
Okay, I walk out.
You know drinking my coffee inthe morning, looking outside on
the view and I see Gilad.
Mountains, right.
And I'm saying wait a second,this is Gilad and Gilad is a
beautiful name, right?
So that's what.
It is very cool.
Now, the name Midbah basicallyall my wines I took the names
(03:09):
biblical names from the Giladregion.
So the first series, we'retalking about Midbah.
There's an Arab town that stillexists till today.
It's called Nadaba.
It's in Jordan and it's broughtdown and saved for Midbah and
they went to Midba.
So there is a biblical citythere.
There's a famous map that theyfound in Midba, mosaic, the
(03:34):
Mosaic map, the most antique mapof Jerusalem, basically Wow.
So that's one of my ideas areto put a map one day on the
Midba series.
But it's kind of mosaic, itdoesn't fit the modern look, but
somehow I'll have to fit it in.
S. Simon Jacob (03:52):
Tell me the first series.
What does it include?
It includes a shenan.
Chaim Sackton (03:56):
It includes a Chenin Blanc rosé and a blend of
GSM.
Okay, so the rosé is made outof what the rosé is made out of
Merlot, straight Merlot.
Okay, I got the grapes from HarBracha.
I have a vineyard over there.
I buy my grapes.
Most of my grapes I've beenbuying from this area, in the
area over here.
(04:16):
This is a vineyard in HarBracha that has very high
acidity.
Okay, so it fits for rosé.
I've been making rosé out of aMerlot for a couple years.
We're very happy with it.
And Be'ezrat Hashem willcontinue.
And the last one.
S. Simon Jacob (04:33):
The next one is a red wine, a GSM.
Chaim Sackton (04:38):
It's a light wine .
It's very nice.
The grapes are actually notfrom this area.
They're from up north, from theGalil.
What should I say about it?
S. Simon Jacob (04:48):
It's a real Grenache, Syrah, Morvedrah, yes,
okay.
Chaim Sackton (04:52):
Yes, the percentages are more Grenache
and Syrah less.
I mean more Grenache, moreMourvèdre as a drop of Syrah.
Okay, it's basically a GrenacheI love.
S. Simon Jacob (05:05):
Grenache-heavy wines.
I love wines that have a lot ofGrenache because they're very
light and they're just beautiful.
Chaim Sackton (05:12):
So you'll like this wine.
It's almost a rosé and thetaste I mean it's a red wine and
it has the qualities of redwine, but it's very light.
I pushed it a lot before LeilaSeder for people that have a
(05:33):
hard time drinking heavy winesThe 4Cups, and it worked.
S. Simon Jacob (05:35):
So what's the alcohol level?
13.
It's 13.
Okay, it's 13.
Okay.
Chaim Sackton (05:38):
Cool.
It's not always about thealcohol level.
It's about the soaking of thegrapes, and Grenache is a grape,
so it doesn't have to be.
It's not about the alcohollevel.
Usually, when you have highalcohol, it means the grapes
were harvested later, but notalways Grenache is one of my
favorite varietals.
Okay, so I'm happy I have it.
It's the first GSM I ever made.
S. Simon Jacob (06:02):
This next level.
How many levels are there?
Four.
This next level.
How many levels are there?
There's four, four okay.
Chaim Sackton (06:08):
The next one is called Nachal Yabok.
Nachal Yabok is the border ofGilad and Bashan.
Obviously we still have thatNachal today.
We have Yaakov Avinu.
We know he passed in Ma'avalYabok, so it's a famous name In
the series of Nachi Yabok.
(06:29):
I have a straight cab and Ihave a blend, a blend Bordeaux,
it's Cab Merlot, P etit,Bordeaux, cool.
So these two are just a little.
I would say.
You know, more of a wine, redwine, full body has, I would say
in Hebrew, more nachachut.
Itzak Stern (06:50):
So that's the nachachut Presence I was going
to say presence.
Chaim Sackton (06:53):
Okay, yes, cool.
And these are aged.
Also, the first series, theMidbah, is aged for 12 months.
The red wine, these are agedfor 14 months.
Age of Do Age of Niel Ros redwine, these are aged for 14
months.
Aged, how long?
Aged?
Aged an hour, oh, rosé and thewhite are 2024.
So these are not aged inbarrels at all, okay, but the
(07:14):
GSM is the GSM is aged for 12months.
Yeah, the Nachal Ebrok is agedfor 14 months.
Okay, the next one is these twoI have something called Betzer,
so a series of the name Betzeris a little bit deeper.
Because you don't have it,you're not going to find a name
(07:36):
Betzer today in the Gilad region.
Yep, because it doesn't.
I mean, it's an ancient name,it's brought down in Sefer
Bamidbar is Betzer Bamidbar.
It was in Ir Miklat.
Okay, oh wow, so it was an IrLevim that they went to.
S. Simon Jacob (07:54):
It was appropriate with the Dafyomi.
We just went through all of IrMiklat.
Chaim Sackton (08:00):
So you had Betzer Bamidbar.
Yeah, so Betzer is I looked itup basically where it's located.
It's more to the right, it's ontop of the Dead Sea, like Nach
Leibok is all the way up north,I would say the furthest part of
Gilad.
So Betzel is more on the southside of Gilad region.
(08:24):
Okay, so that's another name Itook from Gilad.
The next wine is something outof the box.
If you look at the label, it'salso totally different.
Yeah, I made a wine over hereand usually I make a wine.
(08:45):
All these wines are 20.
I mean, this is 2023.
This is 2021, and I'm comingout with my 23s very soon.
Yes, because the Betzer is agedfor 18 months in a barrel.
Okay, so I still have the 2023still in the barrel.
I'm about to bottle it.
22 you didn't do at all.
22, I didn't make wine.
So the Heritage was a wine thatI made and I wouldn't say it
(09:12):
didn't come out good.
But after I aged it, the grapeswere very good and I aged it
for two years in a barrel andafter tasting it after two years
, the barrel was just too muchand I couldn't the value of what
I invested in the wine.
I could not sell it for theprice I wanted to sell it for,
okay.
So I continued to age it foranother two years until I felt
(09:36):
it was worth to sell it.
Yeah, and then I went to agraphic artist and I asked them
to just give me something out ofthe box, nothing to do with my
winery, something you know likeon top of everything.
So I came up with the nameHeritage.
So that's it, and it's a blendof Cab and Petit Verdot, 24
(10:01):
months in a barrel.
Not only in a barrel, it'sactually in new barrels.
So it's a very high investmentand I'm very proud of the
product.
S. Simon Jacob (10:12):
So, at the end of all of it, this is almost
like the flagship of what you do.
This is my flagship, this isyour flagship.
Chaim Sackton (10:19):
Yes, I didn't come out with Heritage since 19.
Okay, I mean, we went through20, 21, 22, I didn't make one
23,.
I didn't make 2024,.
I have enough quality wine thatI could come out with another
heritage, heritage.
Okay, it's all about quality.
Okay, that's what it's about.
So that's why you weren't happywith it before.
(10:41):
I wasn't happy with it, notbecause it was not a good wine.
I wasn't happy with it becausethe quality was so high and I
could tell by the grape whattype of wine I'm going to get
Over here.
I knew I'm going to get a300-shekel bottle of wine Right
After two years in the bottle ittastes to me like a 100-shekel
bottle of wine.
Okay, and that was my problem.
S. Simon Jacob (11:02):
It wasn't approachable After two years in
the barrel.
Chaim Sackton (11:11):
After two years it was.
I can't really explain in wordswhat it was.
It's hard to explain.
I don't know what it was.
It was just the flavors weretoo mellow, the barrel took over
, it was very, very woody andyou couldn't taste the fruit.
And then, two years more Twoyears more in the bottle changed
the form of the wine to a wholedifferent world.
S. Simon Jacob (11:33):
So I've heard that in the barrel as well.
I've heard that in the barrelas well that even if you leave
it in the barrel, give it more,it ends up flipping.
That Interesting.
Chaim Sackton (11:47):
So the truth is, I mean I brought a winemaker
after a year that was in thebarrel Because it was new
barrels, the whole thing.
Usually I don't do in all theseseries, I don't do everything
new barrels.
I do a third of new barrels,the rest of used ones.
That's not even you's a, it's anormal thing.
Now this was a very highinvestment and I put 24 new
(12:10):
barrels and I brought awinemaker.
I told him the wine tastes likewood and there's such a thing,
you know there's really.
It's like tamina gharia.
It's like a carpenter, like toomuch, like why, why to do that?
And I was like it tastes likewood and he's like it's going to
calm.
And he's like it's going tocalm down.
Put it for another year.
It's going to calm down evenmore.
(12:30):
It didn't make sense, I know,but it does.
It's crazy.
S. Simon Jacob (12:35):
It took another two years.
So it wasn't in the bottle, itwas actually in the barrel.
You left it for four years.
Chaim Sackton (12:41):
No, I bottled it after two years.
After two years I decided it'sgoing to bottling.
After the bottling, I wait amonth, two months, bottling
shock, and then I see the wineis not proving itself and it's
just not worth it.
So you just left it.
So I just left it, cool, I keptit in storage and it took me a
(13:02):
long time to, you know, come upwith a name, label and the whole
thing.
Now it also has a nice box.
So it took, besides the timethat I had to wait, it took two
years and then another couple ofmonths and baruch hashan now
it's out on the market.
So you feel very happy aboutthis one.
Yes, I'm happy.
I mean, I'm happy with all ofthem.
No, I know.
S. Simon Jacob (13:19):
I know, I know I get it.
This is so what is?
Tell me a little bit about thisone, because it's a cab.
The Petit Verdot is really anincredible grape as well, so
tell me what this blend achieves.
What does it come out like?
Chaim Sackton (13:37):
So this is.
I mean, I'll tell you something.
Sometimes it's the opposite ofthe wines that I make, because I
make lighter wines and I wouldso call it easier to drink.
This is kind of the opposite.
This is full body, it's notlight, it's super heavy.
(13:59):
The Petit Verdot is strong inhere there's 40% of Petit Verdot
, so it's there.
And also is strong in here it's40% of Petit Verdot, so it's
there and also the two years inthe barrel that gave a lot to
the wine.
And the main thing is there'stwo vineyards of the Petit
(14:19):
Verdot in the camp.
They were very special, justvery, very special, and I've
been buying the same grapes foryears after this and I didn't
get the same quality.
Where are they located?
So the Petit Verdot is in KaremBen Zimra and the Cab is in
Safsufa.
Okay, so they're both UpperGalil, right there.
The Betzer 21 is a straightPetit Verdot, it's 100% Petit
(14:44):
Verdot.
It's also full body becauseit's a straight Petit Verdot.
It's 100% Petit Verdot.
It's also full body becauseit's a full.
It's a straight Petit Verdotand it's the same vineyard also.
S. Simon Jacob (14:53):
It's not like the Petit Verdot that went into
this.
Chaim Sackton (14:55):
That was a better quality.
Okay, I mean, I decided to goon a straight Petit Verdot over
here, but the quality over herewas a drop higher.
Very cool.
S. Simon Jacob (15:07):
How did you get here?
You know what's the originstory Because a number of the
people who listen to my podcastI guess the majority of people
who listen to the podcast comefrom America and they are from
the US and they are.
There's a whole bunch of peoplewho are wannabe winemakers.
They would love to come toIsrael, especially, and make
(15:29):
wine.
Tell me a little bit about how.
What drove you, how did you gethere and how did you start
making wine?
Chaim Sackton (15:38):
Okay, so I was born and raised in Israel Cool,
let's start with that.
My parents made Aliyah and Igot into the wine through my
father.
Actually, my father makes wineup to today.
Okay, he started in the 70s.
So he started and the idea of,just, you know, having wine as
(16:02):
something was missing in theworld, and he never opened up a
winery, he just made his ownwine, okay, and I was, you know,
I was helping him make the winefor a couple of years.
At a certain point I decided I'mgoing to open up my own winery.
I mean, it took me a lot oftime because I went to study
therapy, I went to do a lot ofother things before I decided to
(16:25):
become a winemaker.
It was not my first thing to goto, okay, and also when I went
to study the wine.
So I realized it's a toughbusiness.
It's just it's hard to makemoney out of it.
Right, it's agriculture.
It's basically I'm taking anagriculture fruit and turning it
into another agriculture thingand then go sell it.
(16:47):
So that's the hard part aboutit.
The fun part about it is I lovemaking wine, I love drinking
wine and also the idea of, justyou know, seeing the form of
taking a grape and turning itinto something much higher.
So that's very special, and thewhole.
Today I don't do so much aboutthe lab because I send it to
(17:10):
outside labs, but just the wholething of the physics of the lab
is very, very interesting.
It's fascinating so that thatdraw me into it.
S. Simon Jacob (17:20):
Did you have a specific vision in founding the
winery, a vision as to where youwanted to go with it?
Chaim Sackton (17:31):
Yes, I would say it because I have all different
types of wines over here.
My vision when I went to schooland also my vision making wine
was always going on the lighterside.
That means less soaking, lessalcohol, making a lighter wine.
That's just fun to drink andnot always has to fit with food,
(17:53):
just as itself.
I like drinking wine.
I don't have to fit the winewith a piece of meat or a piece
of cheese.
I don't have to down the wine,I have to enjoy just drinking
the wine itself.
I don't have to down the wine,I have to enjoy just drinking
the wine itself.
S. Simon Jacob (18:10):
My wines are less acidic or I would call it,
on the higher side of the… thefruity, yeah, the fruitiness,
okay.
Chaim Sackton (18:16):
The thing is with sales sometimes it's opposite.
So I do have the two types.
I have to give the clienteleboth, the whole world basically.
So let's say the GSM is morethe wine that I would go to,
more than the Heritage thatthey're triple the price.
(18:37):
The Heritage is triple theprice.
I would go to the GSM becausethat's me.
I like the lighter wines.
They're easier, they're fun, Ican enjoy it.
So I started off my love withlight wines.
I started off with a straight,more vet, okay, um, I opened up
the winery over here in 2016,the first vintage.
I made wine over here.
(18:58):
But I've been, like I said,I've been making wine with my
father for years, I think since2003.
So I was working with,basically back then we had one
farmer we would get all ourgrapes from.
He was a guy in Moshav, matah,and I used to sit with him a lot
and he would always talk aboutmaking light wines.
(19:20):
You know picking the grapesearly and before getting all
these fun.
You know picking the grapesearly and before getting all
these fun.
You know not waiting too longon the tree, picking it early
and making a nice light wine outof it and a lot of my focus was
on the Morved.
I actually made Morved for acouple of years straight, morved
(19:41):
for a couple of years straight,and sales were hard, so I
stopped.
S. Simon Jacob (19:48):
People are coming around to the varietals.
Now, today it's coming back ina certain way.
Chaim Sackton (19:53):
So I did make a Morved and I decided it's going
to be easier for me to sell iton the name of GSM more than a
straight Mourvedre.
Itzak Stern (20:03):
Maybe one day I'll come back to it.
Chaim Sackton (20:05):
That's the thing I mean.
My cab still has the highestdemand, yeah but that's people
so it just is.
That's what they are.
S. Simon Jacob (20:15):
They do that.
So that's what I'm saying.
Chaim Sackton (20:17):
I have to have the cab on my list and that's
part of it, and I actually haveit on the lower series also
because I want to have the cabso people could buy it, but it's
not my one.
I mean, I like cab but it's notmy first go-to.
S. Simon Jacob (20:33):
So you've gotten a lot of incredible feedback
about your Petit Verdot.
That's been something that'sbeen.
You get a lot of acclaim fromwhat I've seen.
How did you pick the amount ofaging?
Because Petit Verdot is auniquely kind of powerful grape.
Chaim Sackton (20:58):
I taste the wines , I would say once in four or
five months, throughout thebarrels, yeah, and then I decide
, I start deciding.
Then I start deciding whichwine is going to what series.
I mean, obviously, when I getthe grapes I already know what
series I'm making, so I knowwhere the grapes are going to.
(21:21):
But if, let's say, I would havea Petit Verdot, I have someone
who goes to the Nachal Yabok,that's one series, that's a
lower series and it's a blend.
And I have the Petit Verdot,that's a straight Petit Verdot.
So that obviously has to go tothe higher series and it has to
be very, very high qualitybecause it's just a straight
(21:42):
Petit Verdot.
So that I do, after a couple ofmonths of sitting in the barrel
, I do a tasting and I rate thebarrels.
I did, let's say, the pastvintage.
I got three different petitverdeaus.
So I go back and I'm saying,from the grapes I know which
(22:03):
ones are my professional ones, Iknow which ones are the higher
quality ones and thoseautomatically are going to go to
the higher quality wines.
S. Simon Jacob (22:11):
But after a couple of months in the barrel
you could start tasting adifference and sometimes there's
surprises, so are thosesurprises… Tell me about one
unconventional decision you madein the cellar that really
surprised you.
Chaim Sackton (22:32):
That's a good question.
Itzak Stern (22:34):
I would even say maybe this decision here, which
is conventional in Rioja, butthe idea of getting your wine
and saying it's not ready forrelease and leaving it two years
in a bottle before releasing it, that's unconventional for
Israel a lot of times.
S. Simon Jacob (22:47):
Yeah, it's really unconventional, but there
are other places where it'sdictventional for Israel a lot
of times.
Itzak Stern (22:48):
Yeah Right, it's really unconventional, but there
are other places where it'sdictated by the Appalachian.
Chaim Sackton (22:51):
Right.
But this was a financialdecision because I just couldn't
sell it for 100 shekels.
I knew the price was going tobe much higher if I would age it
.
S. Simon Jacob (23:03):
Rosh Hashanah, do you rack the wines out of the
barrels?
Chaim Sackton (23:08):
It depends on the year.
Okay, yes, I do.
Okay, after six months or aftereight months, I taste the
barrels, yeah, and then I createthe blends.
Okay, so that means I'm rackingit Right.
Okay, it usually happens thistime of year.
S. Simon Jacob (23:24):
Are any of the wines that you manufacture, that
you produce, manufacture thatyou produce?
Are any of those wines you feellike they're underappreciated,
that you feel like this isreally a special wine?
Chaim Sackton (23:41):
No, I think it's interesting because I'm the one
who decides the price of thewine, right, and when you get
into pricing.
So that's basically it'sappreciation, right.
So there's a lot of thingsbehind that.
It's I want the market to havea cheaper wine, I want that
market to have an expensive wine.
There's a lot of things behindit, but there's also a lot of
(24:03):
appreciation, a lot ofappreciation, and even in a
100-shekel bottle, I wouldexpect it to have less
appreciation, and it's gettingmore appreciation than what I
would expect.
S. Simon Jacob (24:22):
So we're on the opposite side.
Okay, in going through thewines, what's the volume of
wines that you produce?
Because it looks like you'reproducing a lot more than I
thought you were.
Chaim Sackton (24:34):
Okay, so I'm a small winery.
Yeah, I just grew.
I started off with 10,000bottles, yeah, that's a good
level.
S. Simon Jacob (24:44):
To be honest, for a small wineryery, 10 000
bottles is actually prettyreasonable.
Chaim Sackton (24:50):
10 000 bottles is reasonable.
If I would sell all the wineout of the winery, right?
Um, I sell also to the us andalso in israel through
distributors, so I have to grow.
Uh, right now I'm holding byalmost 20 000.
That's why there's nowhere tomove in here, right, and
(25:10):
hopefully we're going to grow.
My head is going towards thegrowth.
That's where we're going to, soin the next five years.
S. Simon Jacob (25:22):
What's the plan To build a bigger winery In the?
Chaim Sackton (25:26):
next five years we're going to have a bigger
winery and hopefully we're.
We're going to have Bizrat Asim, a bigger winery and hopefully
we're going to hold by 50,000bottles and a beautiful visiting
center.
S. Simon Jacob (25:35):
Please, god, I love this location, though I'm
just telling you To look outover the mountains and down
across towards Jordan into theJordan Valley is just awesome
from here.
Itzak Stern (25:51):
You can see my house from here.
I'm not even kidding when yousay, oh, I can see my house from
there.
When you go out to the streethere and you look across the
Wadi Kelt, you can actually seealone where I live.
Chaim Sackton (26:02):
So I planted a vineyard over here.
That's also part of the nextvision of the winery.
It's not just having a winery,it's having your own vineyards.
It's also the fruit, also theproduce of what I'm getting.
I'll have a little bit morecontrol.
And another thing is more of atourist is bringing people and
(26:23):
having the experience of notjust the winery, it's also the
agriculture, bringing them outto see the vineyards, see the
trees throughout the year.
It's very interesting.
When did you move here?
S. Simon Jacob (26:35):
12 years ago.
Chaim Sackton (26:36):
Wow, it must have been all alone 12 years ago,
there were 25 families over hereRight now we're 100 families,
but they built all of a fivefamilies over here.
Right now we're 100 families.
S. Simon Jacob (26:48):
Yeah, but they built all of a dome.
Chaim Sackton (26:53):
It developed in the past 10 years like crazy.
It changed the value of theproperty was nothing.
We had no paved roads.
I went through two or threecars that you know that just
driving on these dirt roads itjust kills the car.
We had no mikveh.
(27:14):
We had no playground.
My older kids, they wentthrough childhood without
planning a playground Nothing.
S. Simon Jacob (27:23):
You live in a playground.
You're in the mountains, yes,but sometimes the small things.
Chaim Sackton (27:29):
My wife does yoga and so these small things that
kids hang on a ladder, it'simportant Today we have it.
Itzak Stern (27:38):
Falling from a ladder is important too.
Falling from a ladder.
S. Simon Jacob (27:41):
Yeah.
Chaim Sackton (27:42):
These small things.
S. Simon Jacob (27:44):
So one of the things that you've built your
reputation on is like reallyvery high quality hands-on.
So one of the things, one ofthe responsibilities with
scaling, is to keep thathands-on.
Chaim Sackton (27:57):
Right.
So I would say that basically,good wine comes from good grapes
.
Yeah, and my job is basicallyto make sure I'm getting good
grapes.
Every single year, I do try toget the same vineyards that I
work with.
That's how I know I'm gettingmy same grapes and also the same
taste, more so-called same areaof taste, same idea of wine.
(28:21):
So I do have already.
For a couple of years I've beenworking with the same vineyards
and I know what I'm getting,and that's the point.
The point is to continue withquality, or focus on quality as
much as possible.
S. Simon Jacob (28:36):
So in your mind, wine is made in the vineyard or
wine is made in the winery.
Chaim Sackton (28:43):
It's a very good question, but basically wine is
made in the winery.
I help some people make wineand that means that they're
getting my same quality grapesand I can't drink their wine.
So the answer is wine is madein the winery.
The winemaker's job is not toruin the good grapes, so there's
(29:03):
a lot of people that just ruinit, Right, but the process of
making the wine is obviouslyit's a job Very cool.
S. Simon Jacob (29:14):
Let's taste some .
Can we taste Sure?
What would you suggest we tastefirst?
Chaim Sackton (29:21):
I'll ask Yitzchak , because he did taste the wines
, and I'll ask him what hethinks.
Itzak Stern (29:29):
I would say first of all.
I mean the GSM is a must andthe Rosé was very good.
S. Simon Jacob (29:34):
Did you taste the Chemin?
Itzak Stern (29:36):
yes, between that and the Rosé, I prefer the Rosé,
but all three were very goodand the GSM I found was like he
said you know people, you expectone thing and people are blown
away by it.
Chaim Sackton (29:47):
I definitely underestimated the GSM, I found,
was like you said you expectone thing and people are blown
away by it.
I definitely underestimated theGSM.
It's so-called up to a stagethat I didn't make it again.
That means I passed thevineyard, basically if it's aged
for 12 months in a bottle.
So from making the wine untilgetting it into the bottle,
we're talking about 15, 16months.
(30:10):
That means I passed the 2024vintage and I decided I'm not
making the GSM because I was not.
It was underestimated.
S. Simon Jacob (30:20):
Okay, and now, when you're tasting it.
Itzak Stern (30:22):
Now, when I'm tasting it, there's going to be
a 2025.
Chaim Sackton (30:26):
There will be a 2025.
Hopefully it will even come outbetter.
This is the first GSM, so we'llfocus on it even higher Wow.
S. Simon Jacob (30:34):
Okay, I'd love to try it.
I'd love to try it.
Chaim Sackton (30:37):
Okay, so we got some cheeses.
It might work a little bit, youknow to, even though the GSM
most of my wines don't need food, but it goes.
Itzak Stern (30:47):
You haven't seen the vineyard yet, right?
No, I think, chaim, if you havetime for that, or if not, I can
show them as well.
Yeah, we should go out to thevineyard.
It's a vineyard with the mostbeautiful view I've seen and
then, oh, I checked out after.
I left last time I went to checkout the other, the Golani thing
.
Andarta, like a memorial thatthey made for 41 soldiers, 13,
(31:11):
right, yeah, for the 13thBattalion of Golani.
Absolutely beautiful For thosewho were killed during Iron
Swords.
Wow, right next to yourvineyard, okay so, we're trying
now the GSM this is the GSM.
Chaim Sackton (31:29):
Yes, you could see the colors, yeah, and I can
smell it too.
S. Simon Jacob (31:38):
That's really lovely.
Itzak Stern (31:43):
I find it's like incredibly smooth.
We have that tart cherry andeven a little bit of like
something herbaceous, like alittle bit of green.
S. Simon Jacob (31:51):
Yeah.
Itzak Stern (31:52):
But it's just nice.
S. Simon Jacob (31:54):
The thing that's crazy with it is the finish.
The finish is just really,really lovely.
I think you spot on picked theflavors coming off of it, the
what no, he was describing itwith the cherry and the green
(32:17):
herbaceousness as well A littlebit of greenness to it.
Itzak Stern (32:27):
Yeah, was one of the varieties harvested earlier,
or I think the Syrah.
It would make sense.
Yeah, you're also getting onthe nose a little bit of that
Syrah, like the pepper, eventhough you said it's a very
small amount of Syrah in here.
Chaim Sackton (32:41):
Yeah, but yeah, but it's it's like 17% oh okay,
okay, it's not like three.
Itzak Stern (32:47):
No, okay, no, it's not like three.
No, okay, it's definitely there.
S. Simon Jacob (32:53):
It is, it's lovely.
Itzak Stern (32:54):
Wow.
Chaim Sackton (32:57):
On the Hebrew label, I didn't write the
amounts.
On the English label, I had towrite the amounts.
S. Simon Jacob (33:06):
Who do you sell through in the United States?
Emerald?
Chaim Sackton (33:08):
Okay, ari Okay.
S. Simon Jacob (33:16):
Wow.
So where is it available in theUS, across the whole US or
mainly in the New Yorkmetropolitan area?
Chaim Sackton (33:29):
Mostly in the tri-state area.
Itzak Stern (33:32):
But guess who just got it?
Who, our buddy Elk?
Oh really, oh yeah, okay, chaimdidn't know.
I'm like, just so you know,you've just hit South Florida,
yeah, and hopefully make asplash Right.
Chaim Sackton (33:43):
So I think most of it is still sold in the
tri-state area.
But I mean, I think most of itis still sold in the tri-state
area, but they're working ongetting out there.
Itzak Stern (33:49):
The reason I ended up here is because Elk texted me
and said hey, listen, I orderedhis wines.
I ordered Chaim's wines and Ihad these two.
I tasted the two heavier reds,the Nachal Yabok reds.
S. Simon Jacob (34:03):
I think, I believe it was.
Itzak Stern (34:04):
And he said but I ordered all of them, but I
haven't tasted the Midba series.
Do me a favor, can you driveout there, taste them and let me
know?
S. Simon Jacob (34:12):
yeah, but you know, you'll find that anyways
he goes.
Itzak Stern (34:14):
I need the peace of mind.
Yeah, so I realized it wasclose to my home and I let him
know.
You know, two thumbs up andyou're good to go.
What else can we try it?
I would say either the 100% oreven the Nachal Rabok has 33%.
Petit Verdot, it's actually 34,33, 33.
(34:34):
Okay.
S. Simon Jacob (34:35):
So what's the combination?
Itzak Stern (34:37):
Well, this one is Cab Merlot Petit Verdot.
Okay, really, at a third, third, third.
And then the Betzer is 100%Petit Verdot.
I would say one of those twohonestly, or even here Syrah
Petit.
Chaim Sackton (34:50):
Verdot.
So we're moving up to the nextwine.
Yes, could we Sure that?
Itzak Stern (34:58):
What do you recommend?
Something with a Verde blend?
I would say, Okay, One, two,three or four.
Chaim Sackton (35:07):
I do want to taste the heritage last.
That's why, okay, so the blend,it's still on the.
I mean it's a Verde blend, yeah, but it's not.
I wouldn't call it a veryfull-body wine.
It's somewhere.
It's also a lighter one.
It's also almond wines are onthe lighter side.
(35:27):
I mean even the straight PetitBordeaux, because I don't soak
the grapes for too long.
That's the thing.
So don't expect from it to be,I mean, it's way, it's red wine,
it's not a GSM, but you're notgoing to have a heavy Petit
Verdot taste.
So we're going for this.
Let's try it.
Itzak Stern (35:51):
I found it very interesting, though, that it's
really like a third of the wine,right, it's not like a mainly
Cabernet Merlot, with a littlebit, it's a third.
A third like a mainly Cabernet.
Merlot with a little bit, it's,it's 33 33.
Chaim Sackton (36:02):
It's fascinating.
So over here, automatically thesmell is already more fruity.
You have a much full-bodiedsmell.
But it's already deeper yeah,deeper smells, but I had this on
Chavez.
Itzak Stern (36:18):
It was very light by the way I had your GSM on
Chavez.
It was very well accepted.
You're right, it's not what youwould expect.
You'd expect something you know, especially when you see the
cab more tannin and heavy.
Chaim Sackton (36:37):
And this is just nice, it's fun and gentle, I'm
making this blend, I would say,since 2018.
Same blend and they're justamazing.
I mean, I love it.
Itzak Stern (36:59):
Definitely follows what you were saying.
You know your vision and yourpreferred style of wine drinking
and then, by extension,winemaking.
Chaim Sackton (37:06):
Right, that's what it is.
This represents the Gilad.
Itzak Stern (37:11):
Absolutely Philosophy, yeah, philosophy,
there you go Very cool.
S. Simon Jacob (37:17):
Yeah, delicious it is.
Chaim Sackton (37:19):
It's delicious as well, I know it's delicious
that I know it doesn't fiteverybody's taste buds, like you
were saying.
You see a cab, you expect it tobe super full tannins and round
(37:41):
and this whole thing.
It's like it's not kicking you.
So it's friendly, approachable,approachable, definitely
approachable.
Itzak Stern (37:54):
Okay, totally approachable, simon.
If I learned anything abouttasting wine from your story
with the orange wines, simon, ifI learned anything about
tasting wine from your storywith the orange wines you can't
approach a wine with a definedcategory in your head because it
just might not fit and thenyou'll think it's not as good.
Right, just approach a wine asit is.
Sometimes it's its own category100%.
S. Simon Jacob (38:15):
I agree, I really agree.
Chaim Sackton (38:18):
So that was the thing when I started selling
wine.
I would tell people you can'tapproach my wine with
expectations because you don'tknow the wine.
But then they approach it andthey're like it's not my style.
So I was like, okay, that'swhat it is.
If you're looking for afull-body wine, this is not the
style you're looking for it is.
If you're looking for afull-body wine, this is not the
(38:39):
style you're looking for.
S. Simon Jacob (38:42):
It's a little sad that we get caught up in
these boxes that we create inour minds and don't open up to
appreciate something a littlebit new and different.
Flum came out with their whitelabel because of that.
He was tired of people tellinghim that, no, they're not
(39:05):
drinking the wine, they won'tlike it.
What do you mean?
You won't like it?
I read the label, I don't needto, I won't like it.
And he said to be fair, don'tread the label, just taste the
wine.
And it was like it was a bigdeal.
Itzak Stern (39:21):
I was saying, it drives me crazy.
You know, from the industry,sometimes I'm thinking like this
wine's good and that wine'sgood.
Why do you need so many winesand so many wineries?
You know, if it was all blind,I need a wine with my steak.
I'll get you it'll pair, it'llbe fine.
But then suddenly we want thereto be a Yakiv Gilad and we want
there to be a Yaakov Gilad andwe want there to be a Yaakov
Agur and we want there to be aCastel Winery and all these
wineries specifically because oftheir story.
(39:42):
I think it adds so much to it.
So I guess I'm on the fencethere with the blind.
S. Simon Jacob (39:48):
Yeah, no, it's interesting.
I agree that a blind tastingyou should be able to do a blind
tasting and just come up withwhat you think is the best wine,
but there's something to besaid about sitting down and
knowing what you're drinking.
I've just found that I guess Ihave a bias that's built in,
though I try very hard to keepmy my mind a little bit opened
(40:12):
or a lot opened so that's.
That's also a lovely one it'seasy in this case yeah, yep
that's that's the.
Itzak Stern (40:23):
That's also a lovely wine.
Chaim Sackton (40:24):
It's easy in this case, yeah, yep, that's the
good wine.
S. Simon Jacob (40:32):
So now we're going to try the heritage.
Chaim Sackton (40:35):
Now we're going to try the heritage.
Just want to put wax on theheritage, the stamps.
Itzak Stern (40:40):
Also over here, but also on on the that you showed
me.
Chaim Sackton (40:42):
with the I have, I have a stamp let's see this
stamp on the wax yeah and I havea stamp also for my bags um.
I have this cardboard bag likepaper cardboard bag bag a bag,
yeah, paper bag.
S. Simon Jacob (40:58):
Okay.
Chaim Sackton (40:59):
Yeah, so instead I buy it blank and then I put my
stamp on it Right, so thatgives that logo lends itself to
be a stamp, a raw stamp.
Right.
So in this one I also put, Iwould say, a cork, a real cork,
the Chamale, yeah, really Wow.
(41:20):
The truth is I wouldn't say I'mdisappointed, but I'm happy I
work with these corks.
What's your usual cork?
This is.
It's called Vink.
It's a compressed cork, very,very high quality.
You could look at it.
It just it can last, for I meanthey have different ones that
(41:46):
different years, but I'm sayingit could sit in the bottle for
five, five to ten years and itlooks good.
The whole corks are somehow.
It's on a scale.
Not all of them are good.
These were very expensive.
These works I because is itbecause I knew it's an expensive
(42:08):
bottle?
I had to invest.
It's part of the game?
Yep, absolutely so, it's partof the game.
Someone opens up a bottle.
You have the black color overhere, right?
It's like it talks to you in acertain way.
So, yes, every bottle of wine Iopen up would look at the cork
and even smell the cork.
S. Simon Jacob (42:28):
Yeah.
Chaim Sackton (42:29):
So that's why, also, I keep them laying down to
have it damp and to have thewine on the cork.
It does something to it, itrepresents something, so in a
certain way it did a job.
But on the otherk, it doessomething to it, it represents
something, so in a certain wayit did a job, but on the other
hand, I don't really believe init.
S. Simon Jacob (42:45):
It's like so this is super, super deep.
Chaim Sackton (42:57):
You can see the difference like two different
worlds.
Itzak Stern (43:01):
Heavier, but like silky kind of mouthfeel, like it
fills your mouth.
S. Simon Jacob (43:05):
Right, the tannins are very strongly there,
so this has been.
Chaim Sackton (43:15):
This is a 2019.
Yeah, it's 24 months in abarrel Yep, 24 months in a
bottle, and now it's out 2019.
Yeah, it's 24 months in abarrel yep, 24 months in a
bottle, and now it's out forsale.
So I took, I mean, it's alreadyfive years from the harvest
right and it still has a way togo.
(43:39):
Yeah, definitely, yeah,absolutely.
There's a long way to go.
Before Pesach I had a lot ofsales with this and I told a
couple of stores that I didn'tmake it.
I didn't repeat the winemakingagain because I didn't have such
quality wine, so they saidthey're going to put away.
Itzak Stern (44:02):
It's like Bring it out in a few years yeah.
Chaim Sackton (44:06):
So soon I'm going to run out of the wine and some
stores are going to have it.
S. Simon Jacob (44:12):
That happens, that's part of life.
Itzak Stern (44:14):
I love when that happens, when you have, like, a
winemaker tasting and somebodypulls out a bottle that he
hasn't seen in years because hiswinery ran out and the stores
ran out and you've beensellering it.
I love when that happens, whenyou have a winemaker tasting and
somebody pulls out a bottlethat he hasn't seen in years
because his winery ran out andthe stores ran out and you've
been cellaring it.
It's like wow.
S. Simon Jacob (44:32):
I can't believe it's still in To blow the
winemaker's mind with his ownwine that he hasn't seen in
years is always a very specialexperience.
Right, that's what I typicallydo.
Yeah, exactly, I have winesthat some of the wineries don't
have anymore.
They've gotten better, so it'sreally I'm thankful.
Chaim Sackton (44:49):
Right.
People ask me all the time whyI don't age wines, and my answer
is it's not my business.
S. Simon Jacob (44:55):
Your business is to make wine and sell it Right.
Chaim Sackton (44:59):
And people like they say it's going to be much
better, the value is going to beperfect.
S. Simon Jacob (45:03):
That's exactly why you want to sell it Buy?
Chaim Sackton (45:05):
it and put it away.
If you think so, buy it and putit away, because it's not my
business.
I mean, I do keep just forstorage, but not.
The amounts I have are nothing.
Itzak Stern (45:21):
Would you, I wonder what your response would be
like if you saw your wines goingagain later like a secondhand
market, right Like in 10 yearsyou've sold this this year, next
year, god willing, you're donewith it.
10 years you see people startselling this as like a very high
value.
Chaim Sackton (45:37):
I'd be very happy , thrilled, yeah, yeah, I mean,
it proved itself.
That means that it made it.
First thing is my name is goingin front of me, expensive,
wines.
I tell people expensive wines isnot about quality, it's about
name.
And I mean, this is anexpensive bottle of wine.
(45:58):
So there's one thing is Icreated a name so people can
trust me that I'm making goodwines.
For the past 10 years, baruchHashem I could say, okay, I came
out with an expensive bottle ofwine.
Second thing is let's continuein that way and let's see where
it's going to be holding.
If somebody's going to takethis bottle three, four years
from now and sell it for I meanbottle three, four years from
(46:18):
now and sell it for I mean,let's say, 100% more, so it
would make me happy.
S. Simon Jacob (46:26):
It means the wine actually is holding, but
it's not my business.
Chaim Sackton (46:30):
My business is to sell wine.
I can't hold on to wine for toolong.
S. Simon Jacob (46:35):
Of the wine that you've produced from Gilad, if
you had any of those wines.
Yes, if you had any of thosewines, which wine would you pick
to open tonight and who wouldyou open it with?
Chaim Sackton (46:54):
So we're talking about a series of different
wines and each one has adifferent flavor.
Now, tonight means just aregular day in the middle of the
week of opening up a bottle ofwine.
So I would always go on thelighter side.
Okay, because it's easier todrink, it's fun, and we're
(47:17):
talking about sitting down witha friend for dinner.
Even without dinner, justsitting on a bottle of wine,
smoking a cigar, I would alwaysgo on the lighter side.
Um, I wouldn't.
I would not go on the rose andthe whites because, like at
night time, if we're all about,yeah, at night time, so I would
definitely prefer the reds.
S. Simon Jacob (47:36):
yep, I'll go for a gsm the gsm, yeah, and what
would you pair with that forfood?
Chaim Sackton (47:43):
So I'll tell you something out of the box.
Okay, I prefer to drink lightwines with food than full-body
wines with food.
Yeah, in a certain way youwould think that the Heritage
would go with a good piece ofsteak, because they're both a
lot of flavors and very deepflavors.
On the other hand, is I'mblocking the flavors because I'm
(48:05):
not getting the full potentialof each one, because I'm
blocking the flavors becausethey're both full body.
If I take a steak and I woulddrink it with a light wine, in a
certain way it's going to godown much easier.
S. Simon Jacob (48:21):
You know what I would drink with this?
You know what I would drinkwith this?
You know what I would eat withthis?
Let me see Chocolate chipcookies.
Itzak Stern (48:26):
I was going to say dark chocolate.
Chocolate chip cookies.
That was close.
S. Simon Jacob (48:29):
I love chocolate chip cookies with a heavy wine,
with a real… Absolutely, it'sjust like… Right, that's, you
know.
You can keep a steak withwhatever else, but at the end,
when I hit dessert and if Idon't have any wine left over
and we've made chocolate chipcookies, I actually almost have
(48:52):
to open a bottle of wine inorder to have dessert.
Itzak Stern (48:57):
And ideally like a fruity red.
S. Simon Jacob (49:00):
Yeah, no, yeah, a big bold red, because it just
goes.
Chaim Sackton (49:04):
Listen, dessert wines usually are full-body.
S. Simon Jacob (49:12):
I mean they could be sweet but they're very
rich with flavors.
I like those special fruity,sweet dessert wines but they
don't go with.
They don't go with.
They go with certain dessertsbut they don't go with, you know
, like chocolate chip cookies,and this would, this would do
great with it, unbelievable.
(49:32):
We're going to go take a lookat the at the we're going to
take a look at the vineyard.
I can't tell you how thankful Iam for coming out here, just
because of the breathtakingvista that surrounds this house.
It's like unbelievable.
You can see into Jordan.
You can see down towards theDead Sea.
(49:54):
I don't know if you can see theDead Sea from here.
I didn't see that.
Chaim Sackton (49:57):
Yeah, on a nice day.
It depends on the weather.
You can probably see it.
It depends on the weather.
It depends on the weather youcan actually see down into the
valley.
It's crazy, usually in themorning, so the sun shines on
the water, yes, so then you cansee the water shine back, so
it's nice.
Itzak Stern (50:14):
What I want to know is how you, the manual labor
that you do here I mean there'sa lot Do you bring guys in to
help out at times of work?
Chaim Sackton (50:24):
So there's different things I do bring.
Actually, crushing the grapes.
I have full machinery.
I could almost get all thegrapes without.
The main problem started offwith crushing the grapes is
always very high pressurebecause I'm also in the vineyard
.
I'm there physically, I'mchecking the grapes and I'm
(50:46):
dealing with trucks bringing thegrapes and it has to come as
quick as possible.
And then I have to have a lotof workers to make sure it's in
the basement as quick aspossible, because usually it's
in the middle of August.
You don't want it to get hot,so I don't want it to get hot.
So that part because usuallyit's in the middle of August,
you don't want it to get hot, Idon't want it to get hot.
That part I took care of.
I got machines.
I could literally take care ofit.
(51:06):
I could get five or six tons ofgrapes with zero pressure, Zero
.
I have a forklift.
I have a machine that flips itinto the crusher.
I have a pump.
Everything's upstairs.
I'm moving barrels down here soI do everything upstairs.
Now.
I have a long pipe that comesdown here and these vats they
(51:27):
fill up.
The barrels have to get out ofhere.
These barrels are here.
They're not supposed to be inhere.
This room is made forwinemaking, not wine aging.
My next process is I'm bottling, I'm labeling all these bottles
and I'm moving the barrels tohere.
This has to happen before thesummer.
Itzak Stern (51:48):
And then we'll get like a nice glass.
Chaim Sackton (51:51):
I'll put it in the glass.
Whatever Bottles they got toget out of here.
Yeah, he can, yeah, so, andthen the only thing is I have to
have one person.
S. Simon Jacob (52:01):
I was going to ask you where do you put the
vats?
The vats are all inside eachother.
Itzak Stern (52:05):
They're all here, they're all inside each other,
so your pipe comes down fromhere with the grape juice.
Chaim Sackton (52:10):
I have a hole in the wall.
Itzak Stern (52:11):
It'll go straight into the vats.
Chaim Sackton (52:12):
It'll go straight into the vats.
S. Simon Jacob (52:13):
But the vats have to be not inside each other
.
That's what.
I'm saying, that's why rightnow I have barrels in the room.
You're answering the question Ihad because I looked around and
I said I see the barrels and Isee the bottles and I see how
you could do it, but how in theworld were you fermenting?
Chaim Sackton (52:31):
the stuff.
So when I come to thefermenting process, yeah, all
those barrels have to be gone,the vats I have, like there's a
thousand liters and 700 liters-that's where they nest.
And the whole room is literallyyou can't walk into the room.
(52:51):
They're all like.
I leave a small path.
S. Simon Jacob (52:55):
I thought there was another room that I haven't
seen because I was wonderingthat exactly I was sitting.
I was looking around.
How in the world do you fermentanything?
Thank you, thanks for coming.
Thank you for being on theKosher Tehwah and really I'm so
happy because you're one of thepeople I really wanted to sit
(53:17):
down and talk to.
This is Simon Jacob, again yourhost of today's episode of the
Kosher Terroir.
I have a personal request nomatter where you are or where
(53:37):
you live, please take a momentto pray for our soldiers' safety
and the safe and rapid returnof our hostages.
Please subscribe via yourpodcast provider to be informed
of our new episodes as they arereleased.
If you are new to the KosherTerwa, please check out our many
past episodes.
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