June 10, 2025 • 33 mins
In this episode, Doug Smith joins Nick Poole on the Calvary Leadership Podcast. Doug shares his journey from being unaware of personal development to becoming a champion of continuous growth is highlighted through his impactful story. Doug shares his life plan approach for setting long-term goals in various life areas—spirituality, marriage, family, finances, friendships, and health—and emphasizes the value of feedback, resilience, and effective mentorship.
00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome
00:17 First Encounter and Early Memories
00:47 Doug's Work and Personal Life
00:54 The Importance of Personal Development
02:02 Daily Disciplines for Growth
04:01 Staying Connected to God
05:15 Maintaining Hunger and Vision
10:35 Seeking and Responding to Feedback
15:39 Balancing Personal Development and Leadership
17:03 The Value of Real-World Experience
19:20 The Importance of Accountability
20:58 Finding and Engaging with Mentors
24:36 Preparing for Mentor Meetings
27:43 Fostering Resilience and Adaptability
30:44 Final Thoughts and Encouragement
The Calvary Leadership Podcast
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Doug Smith (00:00):
Hey, leader, and welcome to another episode of
the L3 Leadership Podcast, wherewe are obsessed with helping
you grow to your maximumpotential and to maximize the
impact of your leadership.
My name is Doug Smith, and I amyour host, and we recorded this
episode live from our BurgoRealty Studios.
Today, you're actually going tohear me being interviewed by my
good friend, Nick Poole, who isa pastor here in Pittsburgh.
And in the interview, he askedme all about personal growth and
how to develop leaders, whichare two of my favorite subjects.
(00:22):
And so I think it's going toadd a ton of value to your life.
And so let's dive right in.
Here's my conversation withNick Poole.
Nick Poole (00:34):
Welcome, everyone, to this month's Calvary Leaders
Podcast.
And today, I'm so excited.
We have a good friend, DougSmith, with us.
And Doug works for Light ofLife.
But also, I think, I was justthinking, just to cross my mind,
I think the first time I evermet you was at your first L3
(00:54):
gathering on the north side.
I don't think it was aconference, per se.
Okay, one of our breakfasts?
No, it wasn't.
It was in the evening.
Okay.
It was a conference.
Doug Smith (01:05):
Do you remember who was speaking?
Matt.
Matt Keller.
Matt Keller.
There you go.
All right.
I remember that.
Okay.
That was the first time, man.
That's awesome.
Great memory.
Matt's a great friend andmentor, and that was a
phenomenal night.
Nick Poole (01:18):
And so that was pretty cool.
You're doing some amazingthings with leaders and pastors
all over Pittsburgh.
And what you're doing withLight of Life, of course,
fantastic.
Thank you.
So I appreciate all you'redoing.
So we're blessed to have youwith us.
And we're talking today aboutaiming to always get better,
which is something that reallyis at the core of who you are
and what you do.
And so I'm super pumped to getto have this conversation with
(01:38):
you.
So anything else I missed aboutyou?
Doug Smith (01:43):
No, you hit most of the things.
I would just say, as we'respeaking, we're currently
expecting our fifth child anymoment.
So if this is only like afive-minute podcast, it's
because I got a call from mywife and I'm going to have my
fifth kid.
So yeah, I know we both havelarge families.
And I just want to say, when wetalk about continual
improvement, I was just sharingwith you before we started
recording, I've been watchingyou for the last, I guess, if
(02:05):
that was the first time we met,at least five or six years.
And you are someone who I'vejust watched their journey over
and over again, continually getbetter and better and better.
And I'm just so proud of you,and it's been amazing.
It's so fun to watch you growand develop and get better every
day to make a bigger impact forthe kingdom.
So thank you for your ministry.
Nick Poole (02:20):
Yeah, I appreciate that.
That means a lot.
That's very, very grateful forthose words.
I don't know if I can live upto those fully, but I'll try.
One day at a time.
One day at a time.
So to kind of start off...
Us getting better, I thinkdoesn't happen naturally
necessarily.
And so a question is whatpersonal disciplines or routines
(02:41):
do you follow to make sure thatyou're kind of on that constant
path of growth?
Doug Smith (02:46):
Yeah.
So for me, I spent the first 17years of my life not even
knowing that there was suchthing as personal development or
getting better or continuousgrowth.
And I was fortunate enough tohave a youth pastor that came
into my life at 17 and he handedme a John Maxwell CD, which
would be equivalent to theconversation we're having now.
And it was the first time I hadever been exposed to this idea
(03:07):
that you can actually grow anddevelop into something more
tomorrow than you are today.
And for whatever reason, when Igot exposed to that idea,
something went off in me.
I often tell people Yeah.
That was really the start ofthis whole discipline and
(03:36):
routine that I've had in my lifenow for over 20 years.
And really what that looks likefor me is just doing something
every single day to grow.
And so my morning time for meis usually my growth time.
We both have a lot of kids.
And so if I don't have my timewith God and growth time before
7 a.m., it's not going tohappen.
And so I try to spend an hourevery day, and I've done this
(03:57):
for 20 plus years, where I'mgetting into the Word of God.
I'm reading a leadership book.
And I also would say I utilizea lot of my free time when I'm
commuting and things like thatto listen to podcasts.
So I think this one guy I heardsay, make your free time your
prime time.
And so I've just tried to growand add habits and disciplines
in my life in the free time thatI do have.
Nick Poole (04:19):
It's really good.
That's really good.
I'm the same way.
I get up early before my wifeleaves for school at seven and
get that stuff done.
I think it's so important.
You're busy.
I mean, all leaders, we're allbusy.
How in the busyness of just ourschedules, how do you stay
connected to God in your dailylife?
(04:40):
With all the demands and allthe stuff that is pulling at
you, how do you keep yourselfgrounded?
Doug Smith (04:47):
For me, it goes back to that daily discipline.
If I don't spend that time withGod, I'm not the same for the
day.
And fortunately, you know, Iwas able to develop these habits
pretty early on in my walk withGod, but it's my time with
prayer in the morning.
It's my time getting quiet.
I hear from God during thosedaily moments.
And so for me, it's the dailydiscipline.
It's just giving God time.
(05:07):
It doesn't, you know, I know Italked about an hour, but God is
God.
Like you can give God threeminutes and God can speak more
in three minutes than you needin a lifetime.
And that's the beautiful thingabout knowing, you the creator
of the universe.
And so you have access to Godanytime that you want.
And so my encouragement topeople would just be find time
every day, whether some of usare morning people like me and
that's my time, but other of youmight be night owls and you
(05:30):
know, Hey, your best time is 11o'clock at night.
Well, Hey, that's great.
Just make sure you're puttingin that daily time with God.
Cause it really does add up.
And it's honestly, I tellpeople all the time, I don't
know how people do life orespecially leadership without
God.
Like I don't know how that'spossible.
Nick Poole (05:46):
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's really good.
How do you keep yourself, withall the rhythms and disciplines,
how do you keep yourselfhungry?
How do you not let it becomemonotonous?
Or is that just more of yourpersonality?
Doug Smith (05:58):
So it's probably a mixture of both.
And so one, I talked about whenthat light bulb went off and I
felt like I was Neo in theMatrix.
for whatever reason, that setsomething off in me.
Prior to that moment in mylife, I had no drive.
I was the laziest person onearth.
But I think the key here is youhave to have a vision for your
(06:19):
life.
And so for me, one thing that Iencourage leaders to do, and
really all people to do whenthey get involved with L3
leadership or whatever, is tocreate a life plan.
This was an idea that I wasexposed to pretty early on.
And a life plan is basicallyyou taking a few days away,
There's a great book that I'drecommend called Living Forward
by Michael Hyatt and DanielHarkavy.
And they'll walk you throughthis whole process.
(06:41):
But basically, you take two orthree days, you get away, and
you really start to thinkthrough every area of your life,
your marriage, your career,your friendships, your finances,
your physical fitness.
And you basically say, hey,regardless of how old I am now,
at the end of my life, what do Iwant to have said about each of
those areas?
Or if I heard people speakabout each of those areas at my
(07:01):
funeral, what would I want tohear them say based on the way I
I stewarded my life.
And when you do that, whatyou'll find is you kind of get
this huge vision for your lifeand what you can be.
And when we talk aboutcontinual improvement, that's
what it's all about.
It's the hope and the promisethat tomorrow can be better
today.
But the only way, I love whatJohn Maxwell says, the only way
tomorrow will be better thantoday is if you grow today.
(07:22):
And so when you have a visionof the end, It makes every day a
stepping stone to get towardthat vision, another step
closer.
So this is maybe a little toonuanced and I'm happy to dive
more into my system if you want,but every year in the beginning
of the year, we're recordingthis in January.
I get excited and I review mylife plan.
(07:42):
And so I'm kind of reminded ofwhat I want the end to be.
And then I say, okay, if that'smy vision of where I want my
life to go, what steps do I needto take this year in each area
of my life to actually make thatvision a reality?
Okay.
Hey, in my marriage, these arethe things I'm going to need to
do with Laura this year to makesure that we're continuing to
have a flourishing marriage sothat in the end, we can say X,
Y, Z.
Hey, what are the things I needto do in my leadership to grow
(08:04):
and develop?
So by the end of the year andby the end of my life, I can say
that I led people well.
And And when you do that, youkind of get excited about the
year.
And then you just startbreaking that down into 90 day
goals and then weekly goals anddaily.
And so when you do it that way,you recognize that every single
day has importance and hasvalue and you should never
underestimate it.
And so for me, that's what kindof keeps me going and waking up
(08:25):
every day, wanting to getbetter is this today is vital in
me becoming the man I want tobe and living the life I want to
live.
Nick Poole (08:32):
So you took this big dream goal of where you want to
end up at the end of your lifeand you brought it into
bite-sized pieces, which is justto They're smart, that's really
good.
Just real quick, what are thedifferent categories or areas
that you outline?
Doug Smith (08:46):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Number one is my walk with God.
So at the end of the day, whatdo I want God?
Hey, you know, I want to hearwell done, good and faithful
servant.
So at the end of my life, whatdo I want God to be able to say
to me about the way I stewardedwhat he entrusted me with to his
marriage?
Like I talked about, Hey, Iwant my wife to, to be able to
say that we were married 50 plusyears and she wouldn't have
chosen another man in any ofthose 50 years because I was the
(09:09):
best husband I could possiblybe.
We, and then family, Hey, Iwant to raise a world changing
multi-generational family teamon mission.
That's not just worry aboutthemselves individually, but is
concerned about the generationafter them and after them and
really making a huge kingdomimpact.
Finances.
I want to be a good financialsteward and enable, I want to
get to a place where we can befinancially free so we can focus
(09:31):
on whatever God's called us todo without that burden.
And so you go through theseareas.
I'll just mention the otherones without jumping in, but
friendships is really important.
Physical fitness and yourphysical health is another
category.
And I'm sure there's probablyone I'm forgetting.
Are those from the
Nick Poole (09:46):
book?
Living
Doug Smith (09:48):
Forward?
Yes.
Nick Poole (10:12):
Yes, 100%.
That's so good, so good.
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Nick Poole (11:12):
One of the challenges of leading is
depending on everyone'spersonality and wiring and even
seat they're sitting in ofleadership is our drive.
You know, we have an idea ofwhere we're going.
We have a direction, we have avision, and we want to get
(11:34):
there.
The other side of that that canbe the challenge is feedback,
getting feedback from others.
And in the church worldspecifically, feedback
oftentimes doesn't go well.
Usually it's, you know, one oftwo extremes.
Either you got the grumpy, youknow, grumpy person that like,
(11:58):
hates everything.
Or we're so passive aggressivethat we don't actually give any
feedback.
We just like, you were awesomein our head.
We're like, that was reallybad.
And so how do you as a leaderseek feedback from others to
really find those areas that weneed to get better?
Do you need to grow?
You need to improve?
Doug Smith (12:16):
Yeah, this could be part of my natural wiring too,
but I believe teachability isthe key to everything.
And humility is the key toeverything if you really want to
grow and develop.
And so for me, I've always justsought feedback for whatever
reason, because Ken Blanchard, Ithink, said feedback is the
breakfast of champions.
Because what I think you'llfind, yes, feedback can offend
(12:37):
us and hurt us initially,because it's basically telling
you like, hey, where do you wantto go?
You're not there yet.
I remember interviewing ClintHurdle, the former manager of
the Pirates, and he would haveto sit down with people saying,
you know, these athletes whothought they were the best
athlete on the field and saying,well, you're not an MVP.
yet.
Or to my little players, hey,you're not a major league player
yet.
(12:57):
That stings.
But if you view it properly,that can also be the feedback
that you need to actually growto the next level.
And I think going back to whatyou just mentioned, it's all
about the why.
If I'm seeking feedback and mywhy is because the piece of
feedback that I ask you forcould make me better, then all
of a sudden I get excited forfeedback.
It may hurt when I hear it.
(13:18):
One thing that I do, and Iguess I would just say
process-wise, you need to askThank you.
And at the end of everyinterview, I asked two
(13:42):
questions.
I said, hey, make me a betterinterviewer.
What feedback do you have forme that can make this experience
better for future guests?
And then I always ask forreferrals.
And out of 400 interviews, Iwould probably say that maybe 25
people actually gave me realfeedback.
And out of that, two or threeof those people changed my life
forever with the feedback thatthey gave me.
(14:03):
And here's what I know.
If If you don't ask forfeedback or if you don't respond
well to feedback, you'll neverget real authentic feedback
again.
It's hard enough to get justwhen you're asking for it.
But I'm telling you, if peopleare courageous enough to give it
to you and you respond poorly,Andy Stanley said, if you don't
respond well, you'll soon besurrounded by people who have
nothing to say.
And that's honestly my biggestfear.
(14:24):
I never want to get to a placein my life where people aren't
willing to tell me what I needto hear rather than what I want
to hear.
So the big thing I would justsay is you need to ask for it
and get hungry for it.
And it's just like anything.
Once you get a few reps of itin, you start feeling the
excitement and momentum thatcomes with the growth for it,
and then you start to hungerafter it.
Nick Poole (14:41):
What's the wrong way to respond to feedback?
Just to be really specific andclear.
What's a wrong way?
Doug Smith (14:49):
Yeah, so, and to make sure that people realize
that I'm far from perfect onthis.
Oh yeah, I get it.
None of us are.
Just recently, I would say inthe past two or three months, I
had three different people cometo me, unsolicited feedback.
And I remember one of them wasa leader and a mentor.
And he said, Doug, the knock onyou and your leadership right
now is...
(15:09):
And then he gave me some veryblunt and candid feedback.
And inside...
And again, this is a naturalreaction.
I got mad.
I got defensive.
And that defensiveness, Ididn't hold it in, which is what
I should have done.
But I automatically startedsaying, but what you don't know
is, and he actually stopped me,which was awesome if you're a
(15:29):
mentor listening to this.
And he said, Doug, I'm not hereto listen to you complain.
I'm not here to listen to youdefend yourself.
I'm here to give you feedbackthat this is the area you need
to grow in your leadership.
What you do with it, it's up toyou.
And that's all that people cando for us.
But if, and I actuallyapologize to them.
And that's where I would tellyou, if you've been defensive in
the past, go apologize.
Hey, you know what?
I shouldn't have reacted thatway.
Wow, you should react.
(15:50):
Thank you for the feedback.
I needed to hear it.
Now, when you're actuallyprocessing the feedback, you
need to really discern whetheror not, hey, what's true?
What do I need to apply whatnot to?
But in general, yeah, do notget defensive.
Do not push back.
Just be thankful.
Nick Poole (16:06):
And on those lines, what's the difference between
inviting feedback versus not?
feedback coming to youunsolicited?
Doug Smith (16:18):
Well, I would say this.
So the feedback that came to meunsolicited came because I have
the relationship and I thinkthose people knew that I'm
teachable and
Nick Poole (16:26):
knew...
But in some ways that issolicited because you have that
relationship.
Doug Smith (16:29):
Yes.
So in that case, as we'reprocessing this, I would just
say that you're building yourreputation every day with every
interaction that you have withpeople.
And when feedback comes, you'reeither building a reputation of
being humble and teachable, oryou're building a reputation of
being prideful and defensive.
And again...
you're not going to getsolicited or unsolicited
(16:50):
feedback if you have areputation for being prideful
and defensive.
Only if you have an attitude ofhumility and teachability will
you start to receive that.
So again, if you're assessingyour life right now and you're
saying, I can't remember thelast time I got feedback that
was real and honest, you maywant to do some self-assessment
there and maybe need to makesome changes.
Nick Poole (17:10):
That's good.
That's really good.
Now, how do you balance thetime and energy for your own
personal development with justthe responsibilities you have as
a leader.
Like, you know, we have all ofthese responsibilities that
literally can fill 100% of ourtime.
How do you make room and spacefor personal development?
Doug Smith (17:31):
So this is beautiful.
Now, historically, again, youprobably noticed already, I love
personal growth.
I listen to hours of podcasts,listen to tons of, I read tons
of books every year.
And really, I just fit it intothe daily, like making my
downtime primetime, have time tolisten to a podcast a year,
book a year.
But I remember doing aninterview with a leader named
Bill Strickland.
He actually just retired.
He's a legendary leader here inPittsburgh.
(17:52):
He led the Bidwell TrainingCenter.
And I was interviewing him andI actually didn't know how to
respond to his answer because Iwas asking him the same thing
you're asking me, like, hey, howdo you actually to grow and
develop as a leader.
And his answer was unlikeanything I've ever heard still
to this day.
And he said, I show up to work,man.
I show up to work and I makepayroll.
And that was all he said.
(18:14):
I'm like, what?
Nick Poole (18:16):
What do you do with that?
Doug Smith (18:17):
I show up to work and make payroll.
But I would say the more I'vegrown and developed as a leader,
I think there's so much wisdomin what he shared.
Man, show up.
Show up, show up in yourorganization, do the work.
It's when you're doing the workof leadership that you learn
the most.
You can read a ton of theoryand listen, I'm all about
personal growth.
Books are great.
Podcasts are great.
(18:38):
Things like this are great.
You need that because it'llhelp accelerate your growth, but
nothing's going to accelerateyour growth than actually
getting reps leading andactually being in the arena.
And so for me, I've come tovalue that.
Hey, when I show up that day,every work to work every day, it
is an opportunity for me to runinto things that I don't
necessarily want to run into,but are going to be good for my
growth.
So the more I grow, I wouldjust say being in the arena and
(19:00):
actually leading because I thinkwe live in a world where a lot
of people have a lot of talk,but they don't actually have to
walk it out.
And they're not actuallyleading anywhere.
They're just theory people.
And that's my biggest fear.
Nick Poole (19:10):
We have a lot of talking heads, not just on the
news, but everywhere, who areexperts at all kinds of things
they're not actually doing.
Doug Smith (19:18):
100%.
Nick Poole (19:20):
I love Malcolm Gladwell's book, Outliers.
He talks about the idea that tobe an expert in anything, you
need 10,000 hours of work, whichis equivalent to almost 10
years.
And we have a lot of people whohave hundreds of hours in a
certain thing, ministryincluded, that are experts.
Show up, do it.
You'll get better.
(19:41):
I think it's really good.
Doug Smith (19:43):
And let me just say this because I'm somewhat being
unfair.
So I'm 39 years old.
I was just as hungry and tryingto grow just as much in my 20s
when we talked about theory.
And there is a time, if you'rea young leader listening to
this, you probably are a theoryperson.
And you don't want to hear thatbecause I didn't want to hear
that because people told methat.
They said, you haven't learnedanything.
Don't let that discourage youbecause when you're young, it is
(20:06):
your time to learn.
Like your 20s, God doesn't carewhere you develop.
He just wants you developing.
So take all that in.
I was trying to teachleadership lessons in my 20s
when I knew nothing.
That's okay.
Get those reps in and be okaywith that.
But eventually, you don't wantto be 20 years into your career
and still being a theory person.
You want to make sure thateventually your practice is
(20:28):
matching your theory.
And I would say this, if you'renot getting the opportunities
that your theory has turned intopractice, that's where I would
really look for feedback withmentors of, hey, you know, I
I've been learning aboutleadership.
I have a desire to lead, butthere seems to be a gap between
me where I am now and meactually having an opportunity
to lead.
What do you think that gap isand what are some ways that I
can grow so that I can actuallyget a leadership position to
(20:49):
start to get some of those reps?
Nick Poole (20:51):
So good.
That's really good.
Really good.
Along those lines, what roledoes accountability play in just
growing and seeing yourself,your plan, your hopes to grow
and to improve actually happen?
Doug Smith (21:04):
Yeah, I think for me, so I would probably put the
most emphasis on me holdingmyself accountable.
You know, Dwayne, the rockJohnson is famous for saying
like your greatest competitionis you.
It's always you versus you.
So for me, I try to be my owntoughest boss.
I never want someone else tohave to set the standard for me.
So, so for me, it's reallyholding myself to a higher
standard than anybody else.
(21:25):
Uh, but I would sayorganizationally on
accountability, accountabilityis really important.
Uh, something we do at light oflife that I think has been
extremely valuable, uh, tohelping people grow and develop
and achieve things is we use anoperating system called EOS
stands for the entrepreneurialoperating system.
And within that system,everyone in the organization,
every single quarter, every 90days has to have three to seven,
(21:48):
we call them rocks.
Uh, they're basically goals,but what are the three to seven
most important things for you tocomplete this quarter that are
going to move the ball forwardto helping us reach our goal.
And once we set those everyquarter, every one-on-one I have
with my direct reports, Hey,we're doing a rock review.
Is this on track or off track.
If it's off track, it becomesan issue.
Hey, why is this off track?
(22:08):
How can I help you?
If it's on track, bravo.
And at the end of the quarter,we want to have you have at
least 80% of your rockscomplete.
And if you go a few quartersand that's not happening
consistently, hopefully there'ssome coaching opportunities in
there, but it ultimately becomea performance issue.
So I think there's a healthybalance, but more than you
shouldn't need a system likethat to drive you.
You should be your own toughestaccountability.
(22:30):
That's good.
Nick Poole (22:31):
That's really good.
How have you, and you've talkeda little about this with
mentors in your life, how haveyou involved others in your own
growth process?
And kind of along those lineswith mentors, how have you
identified a mentor?
How have you found mentors?
Doug Smith (22:47):
Yeah, so a few things here, and I could do a
whole podcast on this, so feelfree to interrupt.
But I love what you're doinghere, because when I was an
intern at the church I wasworking at, Victory Family
Church, the youth pastor, LarryBettencourt, he would do this.
Every month he would bring inleaders to teach the interns
from the community.
And if he had you in, he wouldsay, hey, guys, Nick's coming in
today.
If you connect with what Nicksays and you feel like you're
(23:09):
inspired by him and want tolearn from him, I would
encourage you to reach out tohim afterwards and ask him out
to coffee or breakfast or alearning call and come with a
list of questions, comeprepared.
And then he walked us throughthis whole process, which I'd be
happy to share.
And so I started meetingleaders every single month I did
that.
And I had learning lunches forabout 10 years.
I was meeting with a leaderevery month.
(23:30):
And I would say as far as, youknow, meant they were one-off
mentor meetings, but I wouldsay, how do you develop
long-term mentors?
You have mentor meetings likethat.
And if I met with Nick and Iwas like, wow, I love that
meeting with him.
You know, I want to do what hetold me to do in it, but I'm
going to follow up with him inthree months and say, Hey, Nick,
it's been three months since wemet.
Here's what you told me to doin the meeting.
Here's what I did with what youtold me.
(23:51):
Can we meet again?
And if you do that, I promiseyou no mentor is ever going to
say no because no one does that.
And once you meet with them afew times, hopefully they become
a long-term mentor or along-term friend.
Oftentimes mentors turn intofriendships, which is a
beautiful thing.
Sometimes mentors are in yourlife for a season.
Sometimes they're in your lifefor a lifetime.
You know, that's a whole nothersubject, but I'd really
(24:11):
encourage you to have learninglunches every month.
You know, at Light of Life, Ihave our team.
Hey, every year, I want you toconnect with missions that are
bigger and better than us.
I want you to reach out to themand find the person that's in
your role at that mission andschedule a learning lunch.
And you'd be surprised how muchgrowth that has provided both
to the individuals and to ourorganization.
So that's where I wouldencourage people
Nick Poole (24:31):
to start.
That's really good.
The fear sometimes in doingthat, I think, is that people
fear rejection.
And they assume a no beforeit's even asked.
And I don't know if you've seenthis.
I've seen this.
You would be shocked at thepeople that will say yes.
Yes.
You just have to ask.
(24:52):
Because no one asks.
Everyone assumes the no.
So no one asks those people.
And the worst thing thathappens is they're like, I don't
have time for that.
Okay.
No hard feelings.
The best thing is you actuallyget to sit across the table from
them and glean from theirwisdom.
A
Doug Smith (25:08):
hundred percent.
And to be honest, there's beentimes where I've watched your
guest speakers at church and belike, man, I need to go to
Nick's church.
You better like Ken Shamrock.
And again, it's the same thingyou just asked.
And that's actually how Istarted my podcast.
My peers started saying, wow,you get to spend time with this
person, this person.
I wish I could.
But again, they never asked.
And so I would just say that ifyou're a younger leader, senior
leaders, they're alreadysuccessful.
(25:30):
They're looking to make alasting impact in the next
generation.
And can I be honest with you?
They're just as scared of youas you are of them because they
don't know how to So I've alwaystried to be a bridge between
the next gen and the gen aheadof me and putting them together
because they both have a hungerto meet together and learn from
each other.
They just don't ask each other.
And so reach out and ask.
And if you get rejected once,it doesn't mean a no forever.
(25:52):
I have a friend that does apodcast that's much bigger than
mine.
And he said with some guests,he's had to send 88 emails until
he got a yes.
And again, you don't want to beannoying to people.
There's a way to do that.
But a no once isn't a noforever.
Nick Poole (26:07):
Yeah, that's so true.
100%.
You mentioned, you kind oftouched on this, when you did
those learning lunches, you kindof came in with questions and
things.
Can you just briefly explainhow do you prepare yourself?
If you do reach out to someonethat you respect and you want to
learn from and you get ameeting with them, it's coffee,
it's lunch, maybe it's a Zoomcall or a phone call, what
(26:31):
advice would you give to someoneto be prepared for that?
What should they do?
Doug Smith (26:36):
Yeah, I'll try to make this short and concise.
Ask for time in your ask.
Be clear.
How much time do you want andwhat do you want?
If you develop, I alwaysbasically say, hey, hey, Nick, I
would love to meet with you forcoffee.
I usually ask for a podcast.
That would be a bonus.
Like that's a bonus of having apodcast is when you ask
someone, you're not just askingthem to influence you.
You're saying, hey, it'll alsoreach everyone in my audience.
(26:58):
So that's an extra bonus.
But hey, Nick, I want to have30 minutes of your time.
I want to let you know I won'twaste your time.
I will send you a week inadvance of us meeting, et
cetera.
And so you want them to knowyou'll value their time and then
actually do what you'll say.
So when I get a meeting, if Igot a meeting with you, Nick, I
would start looking up sermonsthat you've done.
If you've written articles,blog posts, social media posts,
(27:20):
and basically just saying whatsticks out to me.
And then just writing downquestions that I'm naturally
curious to ask you.
And then coming with thosequestions, sending them in
advance, being early to themeeting.
To be early is to be on time.
To be on time is to be late.
And to be late is to be left.
And then when you have theThank you so much for the time.
I want to respect your time.
(27:41):
Can we dive right in?
Take notes when you're at themeeting.
It shows that you're respectingthe person and it's showing
you're valuing what they say.
Trust me, you want to do that.
And there's more reasons for itafter.
After the meeting, thank them.
And then go through your keytakeaways, write them a thank
you note.
And in the thank you note,write three key takeaways of
notes that you took and say,hey, here are the highlights of
(28:02):
what you taught me.
When you learn, thanks again.
And here's a bonus that I heardthe story once from the woman
that created the Aflac duck.
She got a meeting with WarrenBuffett.
Warren Buffett historically tothat point had only done 10
minute interviews.
In her research, she heard thathe loved Diet Cherry Coke.
So on her way to the interview,she stopped at a convenience
store, bought a $2 Diet CherryCoke, ice cold in a bottle.
(28:23):
Went up, met Warren Buffett andsaid, Mr.
Buffett, in my research, Ilearned that you learned Diet
Cherry Cokes and I thought wewould start the interview off
with something that you love.
Here you go.
She handed him a Diet CherryCoke.
Warren Buffett looked at herand said, young lady, in all the
years that I've been doinginterviews, no one's ever
brought me a Diet Cherry Coke.
You can have as much time asyou want.
Gave her an hour and a half.
And so a bonus would be, ifthey have an executive
(28:48):
assistant, I always ask themlike, hey, what's something Nick
loves that I could get him?
It doesn't have to beexpensive.
It could be a $2 Coke.
Hey, I'm going to buy Nick agift card to Starbucks or
something just to say one morethank you.
If you do that, listen to me,you'll be able to meet with 90%
of the people you want to meetwith.
Nick Poole (29:05):
So true.
It just shows you care, youappreciate, and you actually
value people.
Yes.
Yeah.
Last question, I'll wrap uphere.
Yeah.
And this is a tough one.
We could talk a whole hour onthis, but what practices have
you put in place to fosterresilience and adaptability?
I think resilience as a leaderis a lost art in some ways, but
(29:29):
is still a necessity.
So what have you done to kindof foster resilience and
adaptability?
Doug Smith (29:36):
Yeah.
Well, one is I would justencourage all the leaders
listening to this.
If you've never had a placewhere you've had to be
resilient, if you've never cameto a place in your leadership
journey where you've wanted tothrow in the towel or wanted to
quit or not know that you wouldmake it another day, you haven't
led anything yet.
I think when you're young,you're really naive and you
think that everything's going tobe up and to the right and
(29:57):
you'll never have any problems.
But unfortunately, I've had tolearn this the really hard way.
I've had some really, reallychallenging seasons in my
leadership journey.
And so the things I would pointout that have helped me be
resilient is one determined tonever give up like just make
that decision like I am going tolive for God and I'm going to
make it to my finish linewhatever it costs like I will
(30:17):
crawl my dead body across thefinish line to God's call in my
life like that's it I'm nevergoing to give up I love what
Peter said like I think it wasPeter when he said Jesus where
else would we go like all theother disciples were leaving he
said are you guys going to leaveme too where where else are you
going to go then follow God soGod I'm never going to quit two
is when tough times come do notdo like And recognize that you
(30:38):
are not alone.
The enemy's one of his greateststrategies is to convince you
that you're the only one on theplanet going through this.
You're the only one struggling.
Everyone else in the body ofChrist is victorious and living
in victory except for you.
And it's a lie from the pit ofhell.
Everyone is going through thesame test and trial as the Bible
says.
And when you recognize that inyour time of need, we can lock
(30:58):
arms with our brothers andsisters in need and say, you
know what, guys?
I need help.
And I say every leader needs tobe in a group small group.
I lead a group of pastors andwe always say, man, you need a
group where you're fully known,fully loved, and fully
challenged.
What does that mean?
Fully known, I can fully bemyself and share what I'm going
through.
And I could do that because Iknow I'm going to be fully loved
(31:19):
unconditionally.
But at the same time, I'll alsobe fully challenged because
sometimes I do need a hug andprayer and pat on the back.
But other times I need a slapin the face to keep going.
And so you need a group ofcommunity and then get help
however you need help.
I've gone to therapy.
I've been on medication foranxiety.
When Whatever you need to do toget help and get through a
season, you need to do it.
(31:40):
But the biggest thing I wouldsay is all going back to that
attitude of, hey, one day at atime, I'm going to keep getting
up.
You know, Jesus prayed, give usthis day our daily bread, not
our monthly bread, not ourannual bread, not our lifetime
bread.
Like, God, give me what I needto get through today, and I'll
be grateful for it.
And if you determine thatattitude, you just keep getting
up every day, and that's all youcan do.
Nick Poole (31:58):
So good, Doug.
That was really good.
What you kind of touched on isthe values of our life groups,
that we recognize no one walksalone, that we learn to live and
love like Jesus, and that werecognize that we should be
deeply known by few.
Come on.
I love that.
So wrap up here.
Any final thoughts on how wecan aim to always get better?
Doug Smith (32:21):
No, just make a decision.
Every day I'm going to getbetter.
And I would just say, Nick,thank you for daily getting
better.
Just like I said in thebeginning, if you're watching
this, you guys are very, veryblessed to have a leader like
Nick.
And I know that you'll all bedoing this anyway, because he's
a leader that'll encourage andinspire you to do so.
So thanks for having me, Nick.
It was a great honor to behere.
And I hope I added value toyour
Nick Poole (32:40):
audience.
Yeah.
Thank you, Doug.
You're a blessing.
And I look forward to everyonenext month.
We'll have another guest.
You talked about Victory FamilyChurch.
We actually have Pastor JohnNuzzo from there later this
year.
You'll get to hear from him, sothat'll be super cool.
Doug Smith (32:54):
I'm just glad he came after me.
He's my pastor, spiritualfather, and I do not want to
follow that man.
He is incredible.
Thanks so much, Doug.
Thanks, everyone, for joiningus.
Well, hey, Leader, thank you somuch for listening to my
conversation with Nick.
I hope that it added value toyour life.
You can find links toeverything that we discussed in
the show notes below.
I also want to give a specialthanks to our sponsor, Andosha
(33:16):
Marketing Solutions.
They are the producers of thispodcast.
And if your organization hasany marketing expertise needs at
all, I wholeheartedly recommendtheir services.
You can visit them atAndosha.com.
That's A-N-D-O-C-I-A.com.
And as always, Leader, I liketo end every episode with a
quote.
And today, I will share one ofmy favorite quotes on growth,
which is this, growth is theonly guarantee of tomorrow being
(33:38):
better.
That is so good.
Growth is the only guarantee oftomorrow being better.
Well, leader, that's going towrap up today's episode.
So remember, don't quit.
Keep leading.
The world desperately needsyour leadership.
We'll talk to you next episode.
Hey, leader, and welcome to another episode of
the L3 Leadership Podcast, wherewe are obsessed with helping
you grow to your maximumpotential and to maximize the
impact of your leadership.
My name is Doug Smith, and I amyour host, and we recorded this
episode live from our BurgoRealty Studios.
Today, you're actually going tohear me being interviewed by my
good friend, Nick Poole, who isa pastor here in Pittsburgh.
And in the interview, he askedme all about personal growth and
how to develop leaders, whichare two of my favorite subjects.
(00:22):
And so I think it's going toadd a ton of value to your life.
And so let's dive right in.
Here's my conversation withNick Poole.
Nick Poole (00:34):
Welcome, everyone, to this month's Calvary Leaders
Podcast.
And today, I'm so excited.
We have a good friend, DougSmith, with us.
And Doug works for Light ofLife.
But also, I think, I was justthinking, just to cross my mind,
I think the first time I evermet you was at your first L3
(00:54):
gathering on the north side.
I don't think it was aconference, per se.
Okay, one of our breakfasts?
No, it wasn't.
It was in the evening.
Okay.
It was a conference.
Doug Smith (01:05):
Do you remember who was speaking?
Matt.
Matt Keller.
Matt Keller.
There you go.
All right.
I remember that.
Okay.
That was the first time, man.
That's awesome.
Great memory.
Matt's a great friend andmentor, and that was a
phenomenal night.
Nick Poole (01:18):
And so that was pretty cool.
You're doing some amazingthings with leaders and pastors
all over Pittsburgh.
And what you're doing withLight of Life, of course,
fantastic.
Thank you.
So I appreciate all you'redoing.
So we're blessed to have youwith us.
And we're talking today aboutaiming to always get better,
which is something that reallyis at the core of who you are
and what you do.
And so I'm super pumped to getto have this conversation with
(01:38):
you.
So anything else I missed aboutyou?
Doug Smith (01:43):
No, you hit most of the things.
I would just say, as we'respeaking, we're currently
expecting our fifth child anymoment.
So if this is only like afive-minute podcast, it's
because I got a call from mywife and I'm going to have my
fifth kid.
So yeah, I know we both havelarge families.
And I just want to say, when wetalk about continual
improvement, I was just sharingwith you before we started
recording, I've been watchingyou for the last, I guess, if
(02:05):
that was the first time we met,at least five or six years.
And you are someone who I'vejust watched their journey over
and over again, continually getbetter and better and better.
And I'm just so proud of you,and it's been amazing.
It's so fun to watch you growand develop and get better every
day to make a bigger impact forthe kingdom.
So thank you for your ministry.
Nick Poole (02:20):
Yeah, I appreciate that.
That means a lot.
That's very, very grateful forthose words.
I don't know if I can live upto those fully, but I'll try.
One day at a time.
One day at a time.
So to kind of start off...
Us getting better, I thinkdoesn't happen naturally
necessarily.
And so a question is whatpersonal disciplines or routines
(02:41):
do you follow to make sure thatyou're kind of on that constant
path of growth?
Doug Smith (02:46):
Yeah.
So for me, I spent the first 17years of my life not even
knowing that there was suchthing as personal development or
getting better or continuousgrowth.
And I was fortunate enough tohave a youth pastor that came
into my life at 17 and he handedme a John Maxwell CD, which
would be equivalent to theconversation we're having now.
And it was the first time I hadever been exposed to this idea
(03:07):
that you can actually grow anddevelop into something more
tomorrow than you are today.
And for whatever reason, when Igot exposed to that idea,
something went off in me.
I often tell people Yeah.
That was really the start ofthis whole discipline and
(03:36):
routine that I've had in my lifenow for over 20 years.
And really what that looks likefor me is just doing something
every single day to grow.
And so my morning time for meis usually my growth time.
We both have a lot of kids.
And so if I don't have my timewith God and growth time before
7 a.m., it's not going tohappen.
And so I try to spend an hourevery day, and I've done this
(03:57):
for 20 plus years, where I'mgetting into the Word of God.
I'm reading a leadership book.
And I also would say I utilizea lot of my free time when I'm
commuting and things like thatto listen to podcasts.
So I think this one guy I heardsay, make your free time your
prime time.
And so I've just tried to growand add habits and disciplines
in my life in the free time thatI do have.
Nick Poole (04:19):
It's really good.
That's really good.
I'm the same way.
I get up early before my wifeleaves for school at seven and
get that stuff done.
I think it's so important.
You're busy.
I mean, all leaders, we're allbusy.
How in the busyness of just ourschedules, how do you stay
connected to God in your dailylife?
(04:40):
With all the demands and allthe stuff that is pulling at
you, how do you keep yourselfgrounded?
Doug Smith (04:47):
For me, it goes back to that daily discipline.
If I don't spend that time withGod, I'm not the same for the
day.
And fortunately, you know, Iwas able to develop these habits
pretty early on in my walk withGod, but it's my time with
prayer in the morning.
It's my time getting quiet.
I hear from God during thosedaily moments.
And so for me, it's the dailydiscipline.
It's just giving God time.
(05:07):
It doesn't, you know, I know Italked about an hour, but God is
God.
Like you can give God threeminutes and God can speak more
in three minutes than you needin a lifetime.
And that's the beautiful thingabout knowing, you the creator
of the universe.
And so you have access to Godanytime that you want.
And so my encouragement topeople would just be find time
every day, whether some of usare morning people like me and
that's my time, but other of youmight be night owls and you
(05:30):
know, Hey, your best time is 11o'clock at night.
Well, Hey, that's great.
Just make sure you're puttingin that daily time with God.
Cause it really does add up.
And it's honestly, I tellpeople all the time, I don't
know how people do life orespecially leadership without
God.
Like I don't know how that'spossible.
Nick Poole (05:46):
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's really good.
How do you keep yourself, withall the rhythms and disciplines,
how do you keep yourselfhungry?
How do you not let it becomemonotonous?
Or is that just more of yourpersonality?
Doug Smith (05:58):
So it's probably a mixture of both.
And so one, I talked about whenthat light bulb went off and I
felt like I was Neo in theMatrix.
for whatever reason, that setsomething off in me.
Prior to that moment in mylife, I had no drive.
I was the laziest person onearth.
But I think the key here is youhave to have a vision for your
(06:19):
life.
And so for me, one thing that Iencourage leaders to do, and
really all people to do whenthey get involved with L3
leadership or whatever, is tocreate a life plan.
This was an idea that I wasexposed to pretty early on.
And a life plan is basicallyyou taking a few days away,
There's a great book that I'drecommend called Living Forward
by Michael Hyatt and DanielHarkavy.
And they'll walk you throughthis whole process.
(06:41):
But basically, you take two orthree days, you get away, and
you really start to thinkthrough every area of your life,
your marriage, your career,your friendships, your finances,
your physical fitness.
And you basically say, hey,regardless of how old I am now,
at the end of my life, what do Iwant to have said about each of
those areas?
Or if I heard people speakabout each of those areas at my
(07:01):
funeral, what would I want tohear them say based on the way I
I stewarded my life.
And when you do that, whatyou'll find is you kind of get
this huge vision for your lifeand what you can be.
And when we talk aboutcontinual improvement, that's
what it's all about.
It's the hope and the promisethat tomorrow can be better
today.
But the only way, I love whatJohn Maxwell says, the only way
tomorrow will be better thantoday is if you grow today.
(07:22):
And so when you have a visionof the end, It makes every day a
stepping stone to get towardthat vision, another step
closer.
So this is maybe a little toonuanced and I'm happy to dive
more into my system if you want,but every year in the beginning
of the year, we're recordingthis in January.
I get excited and I review mylife plan.
(07:42):
And so I'm kind of reminded ofwhat I want the end to be.
And then I say, okay, if that'smy vision of where I want my
life to go, what steps do I needto take this year in each area
of my life to actually make thatvision a reality?
Okay.
Hey, in my marriage, these arethe things I'm going to need to
do with Laura this year to makesure that we're continuing to
have a flourishing marriage sothat in the end, we can say X,
Y, Z.
Hey, what are the things I needto do in my leadership to grow
(08:04):
and develop?
So by the end of the year andby the end of my life, I can say
that I led people well.
And And when you do that, youkind of get excited about the
year.
And then you just startbreaking that down into 90 day
goals and then weekly goals anddaily.
And so when you do it that way,you recognize that every single
day has importance and hasvalue and you should never
underestimate it.
And so for me, that's what kindof keeps me going and waking up
(08:25):
every day, wanting to getbetter is this today is vital in
me becoming the man I want tobe and living the life I want to
live.
Nick Poole (08:32):
So you took this big dream goal of where you want to
end up at the end of your lifeand you brought it into
bite-sized pieces, which is justto They're smart, that's really
good.
Just real quick, what are thedifferent categories or areas
that you outline?
Doug Smith (08:46):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Number one is my walk with God.
So at the end of the day, whatdo I want God?
Hey, you know, I want to hearwell done, good and faithful
servant.
So at the end of my life, whatdo I want God to be able to say
to me about the way I stewardedwhat he entrusted me with to his
marriage?
Like I talked about, Hey, Iwant my wife to, to be able to
say that we were married 50 plusyears and she wouldn't have
chosen another man in any ofthose 50 years because I was the
(09:09):
best husband I could possiblybe.
We, and then family, Hey, Iwant to raise a world changing
multi-generational family teamon mission.
That's not just worry aboutthemselves individually, but is
concerned about the generationafter them and after them and
really making a huge kingdomimpact.
Finances.
I want to be a good financialsteward and enable, I want to
get to a place where we can befinancially free so we can focus
(09:31):
on whatever God's called us todo without that burden.
And so you go through theseareas.
I'll just mention the otherones without jumping in, but
friendships is really important.
Physical fitness and yourphysical health is another
category.
And I'm sure there's probablyone I'm forgetting.
Are those from the
Nick Poole (09:46):
book?
Living
Doug Smith (09:48):
Forward?
Yes.
Nick Poole (10:12):
Yes, 100%.
That's so good, so good.
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Nick Poole (11:12):
One of the challenges of leading is
depending on everyone'spersonality and wiring and even
seat they're sitting in ofleadership is our drive.
You know, we have an idea ofwhere we're going.
We have a direction, we have avision, and we want to get
(11:34):
there.
The other side of that that canbe the challenge is feedback,
getting feedback from others.
And in the church worldspecifically, feedback
oftentimes doesn't go well.
Usually it's, you know, one oftwo extremes.
Either you got the grumpy, youknow, grumpy person that like,
(11:58):
hates everything.
Or we're so passive aggressivethat we don't actually give any
feedback.
We just like, you were awesomein our head.
We're like, that was reallybad.
And so how do you as a leaderseek feedback from others to
really find those areas that weneed to get better?
Do you need to grow?
You need to improve?
Doug Smith (12:16):
Yeah, this could be part of my natural wiring too,
but I believe teachability isthe key to everything.
And humility is the key toeverything if you really want to
grow and develop.
And so for me, I've always justsought feedback for whatever
reason, because Ken Blanchard, Ithink, said feedback is the
breakfast of champions.
Because what I think you'llfind, yes, feedback can offend
(12:37):
us and hurt us initially,because it's basically telling
you like, hey, where do you wantto go?
You're not there yet.
I remember interviewing ClintHurdle, the former manager of
the Pirates, and he would haveto sit down with people saying,
you know, these athletes whothought they were the best
athlete on the field and saying,well, you're not an MVP.
yet.
Or to my little players, hey,you're not a major league player
yet.
(12:57):
That stings.
But if you view it properly,that can also be the feedback
that you need to actually growto the next level.
And I think going back to whatyou just mentioned, it's all
about the why.
If I'm seeking feedback and mywhy is because the piece of
feedback that I ask you forcould make me better, then all
of a sudden I get excited forfeedback.
It may hurt when I hear it.
(13:18):
One thing that I do, and Iguess I would just say
process-wise, you need to askThank you.
And at the end of everyinterview, I asked two
(13:42):
questions.
I said, hey, make me a betterinterviewer.
What feedback do you have forme that can make this experience
better for future guests?
And then I always ask forreferrals.
And out of 400 interviews, Iwould probably say that maybe 25
people actually gave me realfeedback.
And out of that, two or threeof those people changed my life
forever with the feedback thatthey gave me.
(14:03):
And here's what I know.
If If you don't ask forfeedback or if you don't respond
well to feedback, you'll neverget real authentic feedback
again.
It's hard enough to get justwhen you're asking for it.
But I'm telling you, if peopleare courageous enough to give it
to you and you respond poorly,Andy Stanley said, if you don't
respond well, you'll soon besurrounded by people who have
nothing to say.
And that's honestly my biggestfear.
(14:24):
I never want to get to a placein my life where people aren't
willing to tell me what I needto hear rather than what I want
to hear.
So the big thing I would justsay is you need to ask for it
and get hungry for it.
And it's just like anything.
Once you get a few reps of itin, you start feeling the
excitement and momentum thatcomes with the growth for it,
and then you start to hungerafter it.
Nick Poole (14:41):
What's the wrong way to respond to feedback?
Just to be really specific andclear.
What's a wrong way?
Doug Smith (14:49):
Yeah, so, and to make sure that people realize
that I'm far from perfect onthis.
Oh yeah, I get it.
None of us are.
Just recently, I would say inthe past two or three months, I
had three different people cometo me, unsolicited feedback.
And I remember one of them wasa leader and a mentor.
And he said, Doug, the knock onyou and your leadership right
now is...
(15:09):
And then he gave me some veryblunt and candid feedback.
And inside...
And again, this is a naturalreaction.
I got mad.
I got defensive.
And that defensiveness, Ididn't hold it in, which is what
I should have done.
But I automatically startedsaying, but what you don't know
is, and he actually stopped me,which was awesome if you're a
(15:29):
mentor listening to this.
And he said, Doug, I'm not hereto listen to you complain.
I'm not here to listen to youdefend yourself.
I'm here to give you feedbackthat this is the area you need
to grow in your leadership.
What you do with it, it's up toyou.
And that's all that people cando for us.
But if, and I actuallyapologize to them.
And that's where I would tellyou, if you've been defensive in
the past, go apologize.
Hey, you know what?
I shouldn't have reacted thatway.
Wow, you should react.
(15:50):
Thank you for the feedback.
I needed to hear it.
Now, when you're actuallyprocessing the feedback, you
need to really discern whetheror not, hey, what's true?
What do I need to apply whatnot to?
But in general, yeah, do notget defensive.
Do not push back.
Just be thankful.
Nick Poole (16:06):
And on those lines, what's the difference between
inviting feedback versus not?
feedback coming to youunsolicited?
Doug Smith (16:18):
Well, I would say this.
So the feedback that came to meunsolicited came because I have
the relationship and I thinkthose people knew that I'm
teachable and
Nick Poole (16:26):
knew...
But in some ways that issolicited because you have that
relationship.
Doug Smith (16:29):
Yes.
So in that case, as we'reprocessing this, I would just
say that you're building yourreputation every day with every
interaction that you have withpeople.
And when feedback comes, you'reeither building a reputation of
being humble and teachable, oryou're building a reputation of
being prideful and defensive.
And again...
you're not going to getsolicited or unsolicited
(16:50):
feedback if you have areputation for being prideful
and defensive.
Only if you have an attitude ofhumility and teachability will
you start to receive that.
So again, if you're assessingyour life right now and you're
saying, I can't remember thelast time I got feedback that
was real and honest, you maywant to do some self-assessment
there and maybe need to makesome changes.
Nick Poole (17:10):
That's good.
That's really good.
Now, how do you balance thetime and energy for your own
personal development with justthe responsibilities you have as
a leader.
Like, you know, we have all ofthese responsibilities that
literally can fill 100% of ourtime.
How do you make room and spacefor personal development?
Doug Smith (17:31):
So this is beautiful.
Now, historically, again, youprobably noticed already, I love
personal growth.
I listen to hours of podcasts,listen to tons of, I read tons
of books every year.
And really, I just fit it intothe daily, like making my
downtime primetime, have time tolisten to a podcast a year,
book a year.
But I remember doing aninterview with a leader named
Bill Strickland.
He actually just retired.
He's a legendary leader here inPittsburgh.
(17:52):
He led the Bidwell TrainingCenter.
And I was interviewing him andI actually didn't know how to
respond to his answer because Iwas asking him the same thing
you're asking me, like, hey, howdo you actually to grow and
develop as a leader.
And his answer was unlikeanything I've ever heard still
to this day.
And he said, I show up to work,man.
I show up to work and I makepayroll.
And that was all he said.
(18:14):
I'm like, what?
Nick Poole (18:16):
What do you do with that?
Doug Smith (18:17):
I show up to work and make payroll.
But I would say the more I'vegrown and developed as a leader,
I think there's so much wisdomin what he shared.
Man, show up.
Show up, show up in yourorganization, do the work.
It's when you're doing the workof leadership that you learn
the most.
You can read a ton of theoryand listen, I'm all about
personal growth.
Books are great.
Podcasts are great.
(18:38):
Things like this are great.
You need that because it'llhelp accelerate your growth, but
nothing's going to accelerateyour growth than actually
getting reps leading andactually being in the arena.
And so for me, I've come tovalue that.
Hey, when I show up that day,every work to work every day, it
is an opportunity for me to runinto things that I don't
necessarily want to run into,but are going to be good for my
growth.
So the more I grow, I wouldjust say being in the arena and
(19:00):
actually leading because I thinkwe live in a world where a lot
of people have a lot of talk,but they don't actually have to
walk it out.
And they're not actuallyleading anywhere.
They're just theory people.
And that's my biggest fear.
Nick Poole (19:10):
We have a lot of talking heads, not just on the
news, but everywhere, who areexperts at all kinds of things
they're not actually doing.
Doug Smith (19:18):
100%.
Nick Poole (19:20):
I love Malcolm Gladwell's book, Outliers.
He talks about the idea that tobe an expert in anything, you
need 10,000 hours of work, whichis equivalent to almost 10
years.
And we have a lot of people whohave hundreds of hours in a
certain thing, ministryincluded, that are experts.
Show up, do it.
You'll get better.
(19:41):
I think it's really good.
Doug Smith (19:43):
And let me just say this because I'm somewhat being
unfair.
So I'm 39 years old.
I was just as hungry and tryingto grow just as much in my 20s
when we talked about theory.
And there is a time, if you'rea young leader listening to
this, you probably are a theoryperson.
And you don't want to hear thatbecause I didn't want to hear
that because people told methat.
They said, you haven't learnedanything.
Don't let that discourage youbecause when you're young, it is
(20:06):
your time to learn.
Like your 20s, God doesn't carewhere you develop.
He just wants you developing.
So take all that in.
I was trying to teachleadership lessons in my 20s
when I knew nothing.
That's okay.
Get those reps in and be okaywith that.
But eventually, you don't wantto be 20 years into your career
and still being a theory person.
You want to make sure thateventually your practice is
(20:28):
matching your theory.
And I would say this, if you'renot getting the opportunities
that your theory has turned intopractice, that's where I would
really look for feedback withmentors of, hey, you know, I
I've been learning aboutleadership.
I have a desire to lead, butthere seems to be a gap between
me where I am now and meactually having an opportunity
to lead.
What do you think that gap isand what are some ways that I
can grow so that I can actuallyget a leadership position to
(20:49):
start to get some of those reps?
Nick Poole (20:51):
So good.
That's really good.
Really good.
Along those lines, what roledoes accountability play in just
growing and seeing yourself,your plan, your hopes to grow
and to improve actually happen?
Doug Smith (21:04):
Yeah, I think for me, so I would probably put the
most emphasis on me holdingmyself accountable.
You know, Dwayne, the rockJohnson is famous for saying
like your greatest competitionis you.
It's always you versus you.
So for me, I try to be my owntoughest boss.
I never want someone else tohave to set the standard for me.
So, so for me, it's reallyholding myself to a higher
standard than anybody else.
(21:25):
Uh, but I would sayorganizationally on
accountability, accountabilityis really important.
Uh, something we do at light oflife that I think has been
extremely valuable, uh, tohelping people grow and develop
and achieve things is we use anoperating system called EOS
stands for the entrepreneurialoperating system.
And within that system,everyone in the organization,
every single quarter, every 90days has to have three to seven,
(21:48):
we call them rocks.
Uh, they're basically goals,but what are the three to seven
most important things for you tocomplete this quarter that are
going to move the ball forwardto helping us reach our goal.
And once we set those everyquarter, every one-on-one I have
with my direct reports, Hey,we're doing a rock review.
Is this on track or off track.
If it's off track, it becomesan issue.
Hey, why is this off track?
(22:08):
How can I help you?
If it's on track, bravo.
And at the end of the quarter,we want to have you have at
least 80% of your rockscomplete.
And if you go a few quartersand that's not happening
consistently, hopefully there'ssome coaching opportunities in
there, but it ultimately becomea performance issue.
So I think there's a healthybalance, but more than you
shouldn't need a system likethat to drive you.
You should be your own toughestaccountability.
(22:30):
That's good.
Nick Poole (22:31):
That's really good.
How have you, and you've talkeda little about this with
mentors in your life, how haveyou involved others in your own
growth process?
And kind of along those lineswith mentors, how have you
identified a mentor?
How have you found mentors?
Doug Smith (22:47):
Yeah, so a few things here, and I could do a
whole podcast on this, so feelfree to interrupt.
But I love what you're doinghere, because when I was an
intern at the church I wasworking at, Victory Family
Church, the youth pastor, LarryBettencourt, he would do this.
Every month he would bring inleaders to teach the interns
from the community.
And if he had you in, he wouldsay, hey, guys, Nick's coming in
today.
If you connect with what Nicksays and you feel like you're
(23:09):
inspired by him and want tolearn from him, I would
encourage you to reach out tohim afterwards and ask him out
to coffee or breakfast or alearning call and come with a
list of questions, comeprepared.
And then he walked us throughthis whole process, which I'd be
happy to share.
And so I started meetingleaders every single month I did
that.
And I had learning lunches forabout 10 years.
I was meeting with a leaderevery month.
(23:30):
And I would say as far as, youknow, meant they were one-off
mentor meetings, but I wouldsay, how do you develop
long-term mentors?
You have mentor meetings likethat.
And if I met with Nick and Iwas like, wow, I love that
meeting with him.
You know, I want to do what hetold me to do in it, but I'm
going to follow up with him inthree months and say, Hey, Nick,
it's been three months since wemet.
Here's what you told me to doin the meeting.
Here's what I did with what youtold me.
(23:51):
Can we meet again?
And if you do that, I promiseyou no mentor is ever going to
say no because no one does that.
And once you meet with them afew times, hopefully they become
a long-term mentor or along-term friend.
Oftentimes mentors turn intofriendships, which is a
beautiful thing.
Sometimes mentors are in yourlife for a season.
Sometimes they're in your lifefor a lifetime.
You know, that's a whole nothersubject, but I'd really
(24:11):
encourage you to have learninglunches every month.
You know, at Light of Life, Ihave our team.
Hey, every year, I want you toconnect with missions that are
bigger and better than us.
I want you to reach out to themand find the person that's in
your role at that mission andschedule a learning lunch.
And you'd be surprised how muchgrowth that has provided both
to the individuals and to ourorganization.
So that's where I wouldencourage people
Nick Poole (24:31):
to start.
That's really good.
The fear sometimes in doingthat, I think, is that people
fear rejection.
And they assume a no beforeit's even asked.
And I don't know if you've seenthis.
I've seen this.
You would be shocked at thepeople that will say yes.
Yes.
You just have to ask.
(24:52):
Because no one asks.
Everyone assumes the no.
So no one asks those people.
And the worst thing thathappens is they're like, I don't
have time for that.
Okay.
No hard feelings.
The best thing is you actuallyget to sit across the table from
them and glean from theirwisdom.
A
Doug Smith (25:08):
hundred percent.
And to be honest, there's beentimes where I've watched your
guest speakers at church and belike, man, I need to go to
Nick's church.
You better like Ken Shamrock.
And again, it's the same thingyou just asked.
And that's actually how Istarted my podcast.
My peers started saying, wow,you get to spend time with this
person, this person.
I wish I could.
But again, they never asked.
And so I would just say that ifyou're a younger leader, senior
leaders, they're alreadysuccessful.
(25:30):
They're looking to make alasting impact in the next
generation.
And can I be honest with you?
They're just as scared of youas you are of them because they
don't know how to So I've alwaystried to be a bridge between
the next gen and the gen aheadof me and putting them together
because they both have a hungerto meet together and learn from
each other.
They just don't ask each other.
And so reach out and ask.
And if you get rejected once,it doesn't mean a no forever.
(25:52):
I have a friend that does apodcast that's much bigger than
mine.
And he said with some guests,he's had to send 88 emails until
he got a yes.
And again, you don't want to beannoying to people.
There's a way to do that.
But a no once isn't a noforever.
Nick Poole (26:07):
Yeah, that's so true.
100%.
You mentioned, you kind oftouched on this, when you did
those learning lunches, you kindof came in with questions and
things.
Can you just briefly explainhow do you prepare yourself?
If you do reach out to someonethat you respect and you want to
learn from and you get ameeting with them, it's coffee,
it's lunch, maybe it's a Zoomcall or a phone call, what
(26:31):
advice would you give to someoneto be prepared for that?
What should they do?
Doug Smith (26:36):
Yeah, I'll try to make this short and concise.
Ask for time in your ask.
Be clear.
How much time do you want andwhat do you want?
If you develop, I alwaysbasically say, hey, hey, Nick, I
would love to meet with you forcoffee.
I usually ask for a podcast.
That would be a bonus.
Like that's a bonus of having apodcast is when you ask
someone, you're not just askingthem to influence you.
You're saying, hey, it'll alsoreach everyone in my audience.
(26:58):
So that's an extra bonus.
But hey, Nick, I want to have30 minutes of your time.
I want to let you know I won'twaste your time.
I will send you a week inadvance of us meeting, et
cetera.
And so you want them to knowyou'll value their time and then
actually do what you'll say.
So when I get a meeting, if Igot a meeting with you, Nick, I
would start looking up sermonsthat you've done.
If you've written articles,blog posts, social media posts,
(27:20):
and basically just saying whatsticks out to me.
And then just writing downquestions that I'm naturally
curious to ask you.
And then coming with thosequestions, sending them in
advance, being early to themeeting.
To be early is to be on time.
To be on time is to be late.
And to be late is to be left.
And then when you have theThank you so much for the time.
I want to respect your time.
(27:41):
Can we dive right in?
Take notes when you're at themeeting.
It shows that you're respectingthe person and it's showing
you're valuing what they say.
Trust me, you want to do that.
And there's more reasons for itafter.
After the meeting, thank them.
And then go through your keytakeaways, write them a thank
you note.
And in the thank you note,write three key takeaways of
notes that you took and say,hey, here are the highlights of
(28:02):
what you taught me.
When you learn, thanks again.
And here's a bonus that I heardthe story once from the woman
that created the Aflac duck.
She got a meeting with WarrenBuffett.
Warren Buffett historically tothat point had only done 10
minute interviews.
In her research, she heard thathe loved Diet Cherry Coke.
So on her way to the interview,she stopped at a convenience
store, bought a $2 Diet CherryCoke, ice cold in a bottle.
(28:23):
Went up, met Warren Buffett andsaid, Mr.
Buffett, in my research, Ilearned that you learned Diet
Cherry Cokes and I thought wewould start the interview off
with something that you love.
Here you go.
She handed him a Diet CherryCoke.
Warren Buffett looked at herand said, young lady, in all the
years that I've been doinginterviews, no one's ever
brought me a Diet Cherry Coke.
You can have as much time asyou want.
Gave her an hour and a half.
And so a bonus would be, ifthey have an executive
(28:48):
assistant, I always ask themlike, hey, what's something Nick
loves that I could get him?
It doesn't have to beexpensive.
It could be a $2 Coke.
Hey, I'm going to buy Nick agift card to Starbucks or
something just to say one morethank you.
If you do that, listen to me,you'll be able to meet with 90%
of the people you want to meetwith.
Nick Poole (29:05):
So true.
It just shows you care, youappreciate, and you actually
value people.
Yes.
Yeah.
Last question, I'll wrap uphere.
Yeah.
And this is a tough one.
We could talk a whole hour onthis, but what practices have
you put in place to fosterresilience and adaptability?
I think resilience as a leaderis a lost art in some ways, but
(29:29):
is still a necessity.
So what have you done to kindof foster resilience and
adaptability?
Doug Smith (29:36):
Yeah.
Well, one is I would justencourage all the leaders
listening to this.
If you've never had a placewhere you've had to be
resilient, if you've never cameto a place in your leadership
journey where you've wanted tothrow in the towel or wanted to
quit or not know that you wouldmake it another day, you haven't
led anything yet.
I think when you're young,you're really naive and you
think that everything's going tobe up and to the right and
(29:57):
you'll never have any problems.
But unfortunately, I've had tolearn this the really hard way.
I've had some really, reallychallenging seasons in my
leadership journey.
And so the things I would pointout that have helped me be
resilient is one determined tonever give up like just make
that decision like I am going tolive for God and I'm going to
make it to my finish linewhatever it costs like I will
(30:17):
crawl my dead body across thefinish line to God's call in my
life like that's it I'm nevergoing to give up I love what
Peter said like I think it wasPeter when he said Jesus where
else would we go like all theother disciples were leaving he
said are you guys going to leaveme too where where else are you
going to go then follow God soGod I'm never going to quit two
is when tough times come do notdo like And recognize that you
(30:38):
are not alone.
The enemy's one of his greateststrategies is to convince you
that you're the only one on theplanet going through this.
You're the only one struggling.
Everyone else in the body ofChrist is victorious and living
in victory except for you.
And it's a lie from the pit ofhell.
Everyone is going through thesame test and trial as the Bible
says.
And when you recognize that inyour time of need, we can lock
(30:58):
arms with our brothers andsisters in need and say, you
know what, guys?
I need help.
And I say every leader needs tobe in a group small group.
I lead a group of pastors andwe always say, man, you need a
group where you're fully known,fully loved, and fully
challenged.
What does that mean?
Fully known, I can fully bemyself and share what I'm going
through.
And I could do that because Iknow I'm going to be fully loved
(31:19):
unconditionally.
But at the same time, I'll alsobe fully challenged because
sometimes I do need a hug andprayer and pat on the back.
But other times I need a slapin the face to keep going.
And so you need a group ofcommunity and then get help
however you need help.
I've gone to therapy.
I've been on medication foranxiety.
When Whatever you need to do toget help and get through a
season, you need to do it.
(31:40):
But the biggest thing I wouldsay is all going back to that
attitude of, hey, one day at atime, I'm going to keep getting
up.
You know, Jesus prayed, give usthis day our daily bread, not
our monthly bread, not ourannual bread, not our lifetime
bread.
Like, God, give me what I needto get through today, and I'll
be grateful for it.
And if you determine thatattitude, you just keep getting
up every day, and that's all youcan do.
Nick Poole (31:58):
So good, Doug.
That was really good.
What you kind of touched on isthe values of our life groups,
that we recognize no one walksalone, that we learn to live and
love like Jesus, and that werecognize that we should be
deeply known by few.
Come on.
I love that.
So wrap up here.
Any final thoughts on how wecan aim to always get better?
Doug Smith (32:21):
No, just make a decision.
Every day I'm going to getbetter.
And I would just say, Nick,thank you for daily getting
better.
Just like I said in thebeginning, if you're watching
this, you guys are very, veryblessed to have a leader like
Nick.
And I know that you'll all bedoing this anyway, because he's
a leader that'll encourage andinspire you to do so.
So thanks for having me, Nick.
It was a great honor to behere.
And I hope I added value toyour
Nick Poole (32:40):
audience.
Yeah.
Thank you, Doug.
You're a blessing.
And I look forward to everyonenext month.
We'll have another guest.
You talked about Victory FamilyChurch.
We actually have Pastor JohnNuzzo from there later this
year.
You'll get to hear from him, sothat'll be super cool.
Doug Smith (32:54):
I'm just glad he came after me.
He's my pastor, spiritualfather, and I do not want to
follow that man.
He is incredible.
Thanks so much, Doug.
Thanks, everyone, for joiningus.
Well, hey, Leader, thank you somuch for listening to my
conversation with Nick.
I hope that it added value toyour life.
You can find links toeverything that we discussed in
the show notes below.
I also want to give a specialthanks to our sponsor, Andosha
(33:16):
Marketing Solutions.
They are the producers of thispodcast.
And if your organization hasany marketing expertise needs at
all, I wholeheartedly recommendtheir services.
You can visit them atAndosha.com.
That's A-N-D-O-C-I-A.com.
And as always, Leader, I liketo end every episode with a
quote.
And today, I will share one ofmy favorite quotes on growth,
which is this, growth is theonly guarantee of tomorrow being
(33:38):
better.
That is so good.
Growth is the only guarantee oftomorrow being better.
Well, leader, that's going towrap up today's episode.
So remember, don't quit.
Keep leading.
The world desperately needsyour leadership.
We'll talk to you next episode.
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