March 19, 2024 • 47 mins
Episode Summary: In this episode of the L3 Leadership Podcast, Leon Ford shares his profound journey from the brink of death due to police brutality to becoming a symbol of forgiveness and activism.
About Leon Ford: Leon Ford is a celebrated author, social entrepreneur, impact investor, international speaker, and changemaker dedicated to driving positive change in his community and beyond.
As a respected activist and mental health ambassador, Ford passionately addresses disparities by focusing on holistic wellness. His inspiring approach emphasizes the importance of resilience, transforming personal challenges into purpose, and creating a lasting societal impact.
Ford's accomplishments include executive producing the Cannes Film Festival award-winning documentary Leon (2019) and Breaking Bread: A Conversation on Race in America (2021), which won a Shorty Award. President Obama's Volunteer Service Award (2017), The Root 100 (2018), Pittsburgh's 40 Under 40 (2019), Forbes 30 Under 30 (2023), and National Urban League Community Service Award (2023).
Key Takeaways:
1. Leon shares how personal growth thrives through challenging conversations and supportive mentorship.
2. Leadership emerges from therapy, community support, and embracing both love and critique. 3. The Here Foundation is born from facing fears and fostering unexpected alliances.
4. Forgiveness is a continuous journey, leading to prevention and healing through understanding and purpose-driven action.
Quotes From the Episode:
“I believe that it’s more curiosity than courage because I’m genuinely curious to understand what someone elses’ lived experiences may have been to let them see the world the way they see the world.”
“Forgiveness is a choice, but it’s also not a threshold that you cross, it’s not a finish line.”
Resources Mentioned:
An Unspeakable Hope by Leon Ford
The Alchemist by Paulo Coehlo
The Seat of the Soul by Gary Zukav
The HEAR Foundation
Connect with Leon:
Website | Facebook | Instagram | X (Twitter)
Episode Webpage: https://l3leadership.org/414
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Doug Smith (00:17):
Hey, leader, and welcome to another episode of
the L3 Leadership Podcast, wherewe are obsessed with helping
you grow to your maximumpotential and to maximize the
impact of your leadership.
My name is Doug Smith and I amyour host, and today's episode
is brought to you by my friendsat Beratung Advisors.
We also recorded this live fromthe new Bergo Realty Studio.
If you're new to the podcast,welcome.
I'm so glad that you're hereand I hope that you enjoy our
content and become a subscriber.
(00:39):
Know that you can also watchall of our episodes over on our
YouTube channel, so make sureyou're subscribed there as well.
And, as always, if you've beenlistening to the podcast and
it's made an impact on your life, it would mean the world to me.
If you leave a rating andreview on Apple Podcast or
Spotify or wherever you listento podcasts through, that really
does help us to grow ouraudience and reach more leaders,
so thank you in advance forthat All.
Leader, in this week's episode,you're going to hear my
(01:00):
conversation with Leon Ford, andif you do not know Leon, you
are in for a treat.
I've been hearing about him foryears that I need to meet with
him, and I had the opportunityto have lunch with him in fall
last year, and having lunch withhim was one of the top five
highlights of my year.
He's that powerful and hisstory is that powerful.
But I don't want to ruinanything, because he's going to
(01:20):
share a lot of his story in thisconversation and so I'll let
you get to know Leon.
But here's what I can promiseyou you're going to be inspired,
you're going to be challenged,you're going to fall in love
with Leon.
He is incredible.
But before we dive into hisstory, just a few announcements.
This episode of the L3Leadership Podcast is sponsored
by Beratung Advisors.
The financial advisors atBeratung Advisors help educate
(01:40):
and empower clients to makeinformed financial decisions.
You can find out how BeratungAdvisors can help you develop a
customized financial plan foryour financial future by
visiting their website atwwwberatungadvisorscom that's
B-E-R-A-T-U-N-G-Advisorscom.
These investment products andservices offered through LPL
Financial, member of FINRA andSIPC, Beratung Advisors, LPL
(02:03):
Financial and L3 Leadership areseparate entities.
I also want to thank our sponsor, Henne Jewelers.
They're a jeweler earned by myfriend and mentor, john Henne,
and my wife Laura and I got ourengagement and wedding rings
through Henne Jewelers and hadan incredible experience.
And not only do they have greatjewelry, but they also invest
in people.
In fact, for every couple thatcomes in and gays, they give
them a book to help them preparefor marriage, and we just love
(02:23):
that.
So if you're in need of a goodjeweler, check out
HenneJewelerscom.
And with all that being said,let's dive right in.
Here's my conversation withLeon Ford.
Well, Leon Ford, welcome to theL3 Leadership Podcast.
It made it such a joy to get toknow you.
We had lunch maybe two monthsago, and I was telling many
(02:44):
people since that that was oneof the highlights of my year in
2023.
And it's just such an honor toget to know you.
And obviously, after meetingyou and hearing your story, I'm
like everyone on the planetneeds to hear this, and so
really look forward to theconversation, brother.
Leon Ford (02:58):
Oh man, thank you, doug, and you know your
leadership and everything you'redoing with L3 is very
inspirational, so I'm happy tobe a part of the family.
Man, let's go, let's go.
Doug Smith (03:10):
Well, let's dive in, and again, I've kind of shared,
but you have an incrediblestory which has actually been
documented in a book that youcame out with last year called
An Unspeakable Hope, and thetagline is brutality,
forgiveness and building abetter future for my son, and so
that's what I'll then go outthere for listeners, and why
don't you just kind of unpackthat for us with your story?
Leon Ford (03:31):
Absolutely so.
When I was 19 years old I wasshot five times by Pittsburgh
police officer Once in my neck,two times in my chest, once in
my arm and once in my hip andone of the bullets I went
through my chest actuallyparalyzed me.
So can't see it now because youknow we're like chest up, but
(03:53):
I'm actually sitting in awheelchair right now.
So I lost my ability to walkand so that speaks to the
brutality aspect.
I became a activist, you know,did a lot of organizing locally
and nationally, but along myjourney, you know, found
(04:19):
forgiveness, you know, and I'msure will unpack that, you know,
within this interview.
But you know I was able to, youknow, open my heart up to
forgive, and now I work withpolice officers.
I've trained police officersand co-founded a foundation
(04:42):
alongside the former policechief here in Pittsburgh.
Doug Smith (04:47):
Wow, what's the foundation called?
Leon Ford (04:48):
It's called the hear foundation and the name of the
foundation comes from this ideathat we don't have all the
answers you know, and so we'reactively listening to community,
to their needs, and not justyou know, the community, but
also what are the needs of ourpolice officers?
Doug Smith (05:11):
Yeah, Well, we'll unpack that a little bit later,
but you just kind of shared anoverview of your story, which is
incredible.
But you know that was quite ajourney and so you know, I want
to kind of dive in.
You know, after you got shot,you know you sounded so
nonchalantly like I eventuallyforgave.
You know, did the next day youwake up and say, oh, it's no big
(05:32):
deal?
You know, hey, I forgive you,it's all good.
Like, what was that journey toforgiveness?
Like, did you, did you dealwith bitterness?
Did you deal with frustration,depression, like, walk us
through you know, the months andyears after that happened?
Leon Ford (05:46):
Oh, yeah, it was, you know, certainly years of
depression, years of resentment,years of anger, years of hatred
.
You know I, you know there weremoments where I felt completely
consumed by hatred.
Now I remember vividly, youknow, waking up in the hospital
(06:10):
and looking up the article aboutme being shot and it said black
teen shot by a white policeofficer.
And I remember going to readthe comments and the comments
were extremely racist, you know,racial comments about me, about
(06:31):
my family, you know, and it washeartbreaking.
And so in that moment I toldmyself that I not only hated
police officers but I hatedwhite people.
Wow.
And However, my nurses and mydoctors were so nice to me, they
took such good care of me and Icredit them, along with my
(06:58):
sixth grade teacher, Ms Shank,who came to visit me, for
helping to soften my heart, andthey didn't know it at the time,
but I felt this deep hatred toall white people and I said to
myself, well, I hate all whitepeople, but Ms Shank, you know,
and I hate all white people, butyou know my nurses and my
(07:21):
doctors, and so you know thatexperience really helped keep my
heart open and eventually I was, you know, open to, you know,
going to the Pittsburgh friendsmeeting and building a
relationship with the Quakershere in Pittsburgh, which, you
(07:44):
know, when I went, it waspredominantly white people.
And then I would meet some, youknow, police officers who, you
know, saw my humanity and theywould, you know, talk to me and
they would say, man, this is,you know, wrong, would you
experience, and things like that.
(08:05):
And so, you know, I took aliking to those people when I
realized that, you know,sometimes we experience things
in life that makes us, you know,judge an entire group of people
which is, you know, sometimes,you know it could be justified
to that person experiencing thatpain.
(08:25):
And so, you know, now, as I,you know, navigate life, I'm
very intentional about, you know, showing up with kindness, with
grace and wisdom when Iinteract with people, because
you never know what theirexperience has been and how they
(08:46):
may feel about a group that yourepresent.
It may not be you, you know,but you know trauma is trauma,
man, and you know, people haveexperienced, you know, different
trauma on different levels, andso those experiences really
helped me become morecompassionate.
(09:07):
But it took years, bro, like I'mtalking.
I'm talking five or six yearsof, you know of this dance
between hope and despair.
And the hope led me to want to,you know, embrace people and
build relationships.
(09:28):
But then that despair, you knowthat's where that hatred came,
you know, and the resentment,and it was like a pendulum, bro.
It was like you know, some daysI would be talking about
healing and hope and inspiration, and in other days I was just
(09:48):
in such a dark place that Ididn't even, you know, I didn't
even want to live, you know.
You know I struggled with, youknow, those, you know, negative
thoughts of not even wanting tobe alive, bro.
So it was tough.
Doug Smith (10:04):
Yeah, and I would love to and I'm so sorry that
you had to go through that.
But on the other end of that,you know, one day you were
better, the other day there washope.
And I feel like there's so manypeople listening to this.
You know we all, we say all thetime at light of life that the
average adult, by the time theyreach adulthood, has had at
least one traumatic experience.
And you know, for light of life, oftentimes the men and women
(10:26):
walking through our doors haveexperienced three or four by the
time they're 18.
And then multiple thereafter.
And just with the mental healthcrisis in our nation, I mean, I
feel like so many people haveexperienced so many things and I
feel like they walk that sameline that you were walking and I
feel like if they feed thebitterness end, then they're
going to get on one path.
If they feed the hope end, whatadvice would you have for
(10:46):
someone, regardless of whatthey've experienced, who's
walking that line?
What would you tell that personlistening today?
Leon Ford (10:53):
Well one.
I would encourage them to stayas close as possible to the
people who are bringing lightinto their lives.
Right, you know I talk a lotabout mentorship.
You know, and I was able toseek out, you know, positive
mentors who would pour into mewisdom.
(11:16):
You know, spirituality, love,compassion, understanding.
They would make space for meand encourage me.
I really needed that.
I would read, you know,literature that was encouraging
and inspirational.
I would be mindful of the musicthat I listened to.
You know I would only listen topositive music and positive
(11:40):
podcasts.
I would stay away from, youknow, any negative music.
You know people, you know whoyou know had a more of a
negative perspective of life,people who were doing the wrong
things.
And you know it's interestingbecause I would simultaneously
(12:03):
grow as a leader as I washealing from the inside out.
I also go to therapy.
You know, talking to someoneprofessional, you know, was very
instrumental in my growth.
And I would also say thattalking to professionals helped
(12:27):
my relationships right, evenwith loved ones, because once,
you know, I began going totherapy, my brother became my
brother and my sister became mysister.
My cousins were just my cousins.
You know, my parents were myparents.
They weren't my therapist.
You know, and oftentimes youknow we lean on friends.
(12:48):
It's interesting, I havefriends right now who lean on me
to have conversations that theywould have with a therapist but
they say they would never go totherapy.
And so the benefit of you know,finding a good therapist and
having those conversations isthat you get to really enjoy
(13:11):
those relationships, you know,on a deeper level, without you
know sharing that trauma.
You know, and you know youcould work through that trauma
with your therapist instead ofunpacking them with your loved
ones who's now carrying it withthem wherever they go.
You know I've become a betterfriend.
(13:33):
I've become a better leader,more thoughtful, more
compassionate and understanding.
Doug Smith (13:41):
I love that and you know, one of our core values at
L3 is community.
We always say that no leadershould ever do life alone, but
in community, and who you spendtime with, as you just said, is
extremely important, regardlessof what you've gone through.
If you surround yourself withnegative people who are bitter,
that's the path you're gonna go.
If you surround yourself withpositive people who fill you
with hope and encouragement,that's the direction you're
gonna go.
And you know I always tellpeople that the community you
(14:02):
need is one in which you'refully known, fully loved and
fully challenged.
And fully known is just, youcould be yourself, share
anything.
Fully loved is you're gonna beloved unconditionally,
regardless.
But the third part and I wantyou to share a story here is
fully challenged, and Ibasically tell people you know
sometimes we need a hug and apat on the back, but other times
we need slapped in the face.
And I know you had acircumstance come up where you
(14:27):
went on a social media rant andI believe a few mentors who
loved you fully and know youfully also challenged you fully
and that ended up changing yourlife.
Can you share that story?
Absolutely?
Leon Ford (14:38):
So, after George Floyd was murdered, I remember
our former mayor, bill Puduto,and the former police chief,
scott Schubert.
They had a press conference onthe news and you know something
about this press conferencetriggered me and I went to
(15:02):
Twitter, which is now X and Ikind of went on this rant.
I did, I went on it, not kindof yeah, that's funny I went on
a rant and called them racists,you know, called the mayor
racist, called the chief racist.
I said they didn't care aboutblack people and all these
(15:24):
things.
The interesting thing aboutthat is there was, like this
instant gratification to bedivisive, because each of those
tweets got hundreds of retweets,right, and so I was kind of
encouraged to dive deeper intothat darkness, right.
(15:50):
However, two people reached outto me.
One was John Henney of HenneyJewelers, who was, you know,
near and dear to my heart andhe's like one of my closest
mentors, and he basically saidhey, you know, do you really
(16:12):
think, you know, bill was racist, you know.
And I was like, yeah, you know,no-transcript.
He challenged me on that.
I don't think he's racist and Iwould love for you to sit down
with him.
Have you ever sat down with him?
And I had not.
(16:32):
And John basically facilitateda meeting between Bill Padooto
Dan Gilman was there and myselfand we just hit it off.
I mean, bill, just he justtexted me today his article that
(16:54):
he wrote.
But you know we're friends.
You know, make a long storyshorter.
John challenged me and I'vebecome friends with, you know,
someone that I completely triedto destroy on social media.
And the same thing with Laura.
You know she reached out to mehave you ever sat down with the
(17:18):
chief?
And at that point I had not andshe facilitated a lunch with
our former chief, scott Schubertand I and we became friends and
out of that friendship we wereable to, you know, several
months later, you know, we beginhaving conversations about
(17:39):
collaborating on a project andthat project eventually became
the here foundation that weco-founded together, and our
first year we raised over $2million.
Last year we gave out over$300,000 across, I believe, 18
(18:01):
different organizations, and soyou know, I won an event.
You know my mentors, you knowthey brought me into the light
and a lot of good came out of mebeing open to sitting down with
people I thought you knownegatively about.
Doug Smith (18:19):
Yeah, and I want you to.
I do instead of I want to.
I want you to take us to thosemeetings, whether it was lunch
or coffee or whatever.
You know when you're one, youknow.
When John said, do you reallythink that you need to have a
meeting?
Like what were you feelinggoing into the meeting?
Like, was there fear, was thereanger?
And then when you actually satdown, like what was?
(18:41):
What was that experience like?
To get to the point where itwent from your racist hey, now
we're buddies and let's dosomething together.
Leon Ford (18:49):
Yeah, one.
I trust both, you know, johnand Laura.
You know I trust them too withmy life, and so I knew, you know
this, these meetings were beingfacilitated by people who
genuinely cared about me.
(19:09):
There was no ulterior motive,it wasn't political, there
wasn't going to be cameras andall these things, and I believe
that, you know, bill Puduto, danGilman and Scott Schubert felt
the same way.
So trust was at the root of the, the meeting or exchange.
(19:32):
And so, going to the meetingwith Bill and Dan, I had this
level of like openness.
You know, I didn't.
I didn't have any expectations,but I was open to the idea that
they may not be racist.
You know, I was open to theidea that they could be good
(19:57):
people.
I believe that openness camepartly from my trust and, john,
you know, and I remember sittingdown and saying, you know, I
didn't really have a desire totalk about the past.
You know, this wasn't a meetingwhere I just wanted to say you
(20:19):
know, this is how I felt.
You know, when I was shot andthings like that, you know I I
said, you know I remember sayingyou know, I want to talk about
the future.
You know, I want to talk abouthow we can, you know, do good
things and prevent this fromhappening again.
And they had this very similarperspective and we talked about
(20:43):
solutions.
That was, I mean, that's itLike we.
You know it's beautiful we doveright into solutions and they
acknowledged my pain, you know,and they share.
You know some things about.
You know the decisions you knowthey have to make as leaders
(21:03):
and you know how complicated itis and you know how, when you,
when they try to appease thisgroup, they pissed this group
off and you know all thepolitical things and they, you
know, broke it down to me in away that you know, I really
understood, you know, and Iwouldn't say we came out of that
(21:23):
group like hugging each other,but it was, it was the follow up
, it was a step Right, you knowthe openness, you know text
messages and phone calls, youknow that really helped us, you
know, build that bond, you know.
And the same thing with Scott.
(21:43):
I would say, you know I was alittle bit more aloof going into
the meeting with Scott and thatwas just because he was a
police officer, right, you knowhim, you know being a chief of
police, his badge, you know, I'mlike man.
(22:04):
I don't trust any policeofficers, but it was interesting
because I didn't meet.
I didn't have a meeting withChief Schubert, I had a meeting
with Scott and that made thebiggest difference in the world,
(22:25):
you know, and he shared hisstory, I shared my story.
He shared his love forPittsburgh and for his father,
who was a Pittsburgh policeofficer, and how he looked up to
his father and that's whatinspired him to become a police
officer.
I mean, we had so manysimilarities in our stories and
(22:47):
I think that is what reallyopened up my heart.
You know, to.
You know, get to a place whereI consider, you know, scott, a
friend and was open to, you know, collaborating with them around
the here foundation.
Doug Smith (23:04):
Yeah, there's so much I want to unpack there.
The first question that comesin my mind is just what did you
learn through this journey aboutjudging or judging others?
You know, I feel like we livein a culture where that's all we
do, right?
It's like whether it's judgingsomeone and we're judging all
these people.
We don't know, we don't knowtheir intentions.
We're judging them based on onelittle snippet of their life or
one decision, Like I'm justcurious, what have you learned
(23:24):
about judging and what advicewould you give to people who may
judge often and get theretweets and get excited and you
know yeah, yeah, I wouldencourage people not to fall
victim to the instantgratification of division.
Leon Ford (23:39):
It's easy to choose a side and, you know, feel good
because you're getting retweetsor comments by people who think
similarly as you.
And you know it takes realleadership to think outside of
the box and to lean intosolutions, right, and so you
(24:05):
know, I'd encourage people tobecome more open-minded, to ask
questions, to use theircuriosity, right.
A lot of times people credit mycourage for some of the
decisions I make as a leader,but I would say, and I believe,
that it's more curiosity thancourage, right, because I'm
(24:30):
genuinely curious to understandwhat someone else's lived
experiences may have been, tolet them to see the world the
way they see the world.
I understand, you know I seethe world, you know, through a
different lens than you may seethe world, doug, based on where
I grew up, who I grew up with.
(24:52):
Different parts of myexperience that I hold on to.
This part of me, that I hold onto that social norms may say is
wrong, right, but theconditioning was so strong in my
upbringing that it's hard forme to let go of these beliefs
(25:14):
and I challenged myself on them,beliefs, you know, every time I
find myself leaning into thatbelief, I'm like, hey, you know,
I have to check myself becauseof self-awareness, right, and so
I would also encourage peopleto give themselves grace.
Right, and not grace at a pointyou become complacent in your
(25:36):
beliefs, but grace to understandthat it takes time to unpack
and unlearn many things that welearned through our social
conditioning, and so giveyourself grace, but also be
intentional about unlearning andrelearning different things
(25:58):
about society, so that you don'tfind yourself judging people.
Doug Smith (26:02):
That's so good.
You know our executive directorat Light of Life, joe Gilliams,
a mentor in my life and as Istepped into a new role under
him.
He just said lead withcuriosity.
And he said let me give youthree beautiful words to lead
with.
Help me understand, don't go intrying to do all, just hey.
Help me understand what you do,help me understand your
(26:24):
perspective and man, that's beenso beautiful and just with you.
Know what you've been sharingand the meetings that you had.
You know I heard Mr Rogers saidonce that there isn't a person
on the planet that you couldn'tlearn to love if you just heard
their story.
Do you agree with that?
Leon Ford (26:39):
Absolutely, you know, even so I explore and I play
with this idea of generouscuriosity.
And so, to that point, justimagine if we let our curiosity
take us to look at thefive-year-old you know version
(27:03):
of, you know, a world leader whomay have caused a lot of
destruction, right, thatfive-year-old version you know
may have had a Tunk of Truck orsome type of doll and was a
typical kid, right?
So what happened in betweenbeing a five-year-old with a
doll or a truck or a teddy bearto you know, growing up, to you
(27:28):
know, take a life, right.
And I think if we became morecurious to unpack, you know, the
conditioning of what had tohappen in between those two
points of life.
One, we could understand thethinking of, you know, these
(27:50):
people who grow up to be violent.
And two, we can maybe catch,you know, save their hearts,
right, or save their mindsbefore they get to a point of
committing a violent act.
But it takes curiosity.
Too often we are reactive, youknow, and we see people acting
(28:18):
out, you know, in the media, orwe see, you know, people going
to prison for different thingsand we lock them away, you know.
And my perspective is more, howcould we be preventative, right
?
How can we show up and getpeople what they need before
(28:39):
their hearts become hardened orbefore they lose hope in the
world?
Doug Smith (28:46):
Yeah, that's so good .
Another one unpack is justunforgiveness, and forgive me if
I don't remember something upmy head, but I believe, though
the police officer that shot you, he kept his job correct Is he.
Did you ever meet with him inreconcile, and I can-.
Leon Ford (29:00):
Yeah, yep, yep, yep.
So I met with the officer whoshot me.
Well, I think that was maybetwo years ago, wow, and
everybody thought I was crazy.
Yeah, yeah, but it was reallycuriosity, right, like to your
mentor's point.
You know, can you help meunderstand, you know, and not in
(29:28):
a sense of like you know, thisneed for some type of
retribution or accountability oranything like that, but I
genuinely wanted to understand.
You know how and why.
You know, how did this happen?
Why did this happen?
(29:49):
Because, from my perspective youknow, the two of us we're the
ones that you know had thismoment on the side of the road
and if we were able to unpackwhat happened without, you know,
attorneys of involved, you know, my perspective is like we have
(30:13):
the answers right, we have thesolution To you know, to see,
you know, what type of trainingcould be done.
You know what type of awarenesscan we create, you know, within
community Again, to prevent thisfrom happening again.
And so, you know, I've met with, over the years, several
(30:33):
different police officers whoknew the officer who shot me and
they kind of help, you know,facilitate it, you know.
And so there was a pastor thereand and a Commander, who's now
a chief for Duquesne University,and we, we got to talk, you
(30:56):
know, we got to talk aboutsolutions, we got to talk about
his experience after theshooting game in mind, and it
was a very interestingdiscussion because In many ways
I never considered and you know,my pain wouldn't allow me to
(31:19):
consider what he may have wentthrough, and so hearing it from
him was Very out opening.
Doug Smith (31:28):
Wow, and I'm assuming that you've come to a
place where you've forgiven him,if you're willing to meet him.
What have you learned aboutforgiveness through this whole
process, because I'm sure manypeople are dealing with
unforgiveness listening to this.
Leon Ford (31:41):
Yeah, I forget.
This is a choice, right, butit's also not Like, it's not a
threshold that you cross, it'snot a finished line.
You don't wake up one dayforgive and and how you made it.
It's.
It is a pendulum, bro.
It swings back and forth andand and you know, to this day.
(32:07):
You know I have some days Iwake up frustrated and angry.
I'm a human, right, and, and soI think Oftentimes people Look
at examples of forgiveness andthey see those examples, they
see the public figure of thoseexamples, right, so people may
(32:27):
see me smiling.
You know it was.
You know you know they to talkabout dr King, right, you know
they share stories about dr King, but you know there's not a lot
of examples of people sharing.
You know about the behind thescenes of that process, right,
(32:51):
and so I'd encourage people oneTo consider forgiveness for them
, right, it's not for the otherperson.
Forgiveness is more Connectedto quality of life for me, and
so what I asked you was can youimagine my life if, every time I
saw a police officer, I wastriggered?
(33:12):
Yeah, and you know, and ittriggered the hatred and
resentment in me.
I would not have a good qualityof life.
I could be at the park with myson having a great time and see
a police officer.
They completely have a bad dayand I didn't want anyone to have
that amount of power over myhappiness.
I had to take my power back byjust letting go, and it's not my
(33:33):
.
You know responsibility to like.
You know Be stuck on, like whataccountability looks like and
all these things you know, andso I let it go.
The other thing is, you know,give yourself up for the rest of
your life, so I let it go.
(33:53):
The other thing is, you know,give yourself grace.
You know you can work towardsletting it go.
You could.
You know I encourage people tochoose forgiveness.
You know, every day, you know,and it's like the light man,
it's like you're choosing up towalk in the light every day when
(34:14):
, but some days, you know yourenergy may be low and you know
you may be in pain or you mayhave watched a movie or there
may be something that triggersyou and it's okay to feel those
emotions fully, right, so thatdoesn't mean you haven't
(34:35):
forgiven, and I think it's veryimportant to feel those emotions
fully Because it's kind of likea baby man.
You ever see a baby cry.
Oh yeah, they let it all out,man, until they don't even have
any more left and they probablyforget about what they were
(34:57):
crying about and just moveforward.
As adults, man, we hold on tothings.
We suppress our emotions.
You know Men and women do it,you know, and you know we try to
just get through life Withoutever, you know, feeling those
feelings fully, and so Iencourage people to feel fully,
(35:17):
acknowledge those emotions andthen let it go.
And when you let it go, youknow that's where the real
forgiveness happens.
But then, you know again, giveyourself grace.
If you're ever triggered andyou feel like man, I, you know,
I hate this person today, youknow, give yourself grace and
(35:40):
say yo, it's okay, I feel likethis today, but I won't feel
like this tomorrow, wow.
Doug Smith (35:47):
I'm trying to think about a word, this question.
But you know we live in a worldwhere justice is important and
we're talking about judgment too.
So there's situations thathappen where it's like, okay,
justice has to be served,someone needs to get what they
deserve.
But then there's also, like thelove, forgiveness and grace
side.
How do you balance whether youknow it's your situation or you
see another situation ofsomething tragic that happens?
(36:07):
Maybe it's police and whateverwhatever the situation is, how
do you personally balance, likethe need for we need to make
this right, justice needs to beserved, people need to go what
they deserve versus man.
We need to love each other,forgive each other and reconcile
, like how, how do you balancethat tension?
Leon Ford (36:23):
Yeah, I was a.
You know, forgiveness orunforgiveness is not synonymous
with accountability, right, youcan still hold someone
accountable, right?
So if you wrong me, right, andI forgave you, I'm like, yeah,
(36:43):
I'm letting this go, thatdoesn't mean I can't have a
conversation with you about howyou hurt me.
Hmm, right, it just means thatyou don't have to control over
my happiness, you don't have tocontrol over my peace of mind.
Now I will argue thatForgiveness gives you, you know,
(37:04):
a level of mental clarity,right to Position yourself, to
fight for justice in a way thatyou know, holding on, you know,
to that anger and resentmentdoesn't afford you the
opportunity to.
It's like boxing, right, youknow, I used to box man and a
(37:28):
lot of people think boxing.
You know, it's about purestrength and and just being
angry and being a good fighter.
No, it's a science to it.
But you know what the one yousee somebody to get angry and
lose their mental clarity, it'sover, you know, I mean, they get
picked apart, you know, and soI'd encourage people to use
(37:51):
forgiveness as a tool to Helpthem have a sound mind and with
that sound mind, they couldbecome more strategic, more
intentional, more focused onSolutions.
You know I see it all the timewith you know activists, and you
(38:11):
know you know some activistsare so Emotionally connected to
the movement that is hard forthem To make strategic decisions
that I get them closer to theresolution that they're looking
for.
Doug Smith (38:29):
Wow, thank you for sharing that.
One more topic I want to coverbefore we go into the lighting
round, which is a bunch of funquestions.
I always ask, man, I've heardyou talking in other interviews
about just how you've you'vebeen able to experience a
certain pain and a purposeYou've mentioned it several
times here already of kind ofwhat you're doing today.
But I feel like, man, that'sone reason I feel like we
connected so well.
You know, I have a lot of painin my background and and to live
(38:50):
intentionally, make adifference with that pain makes
all the difference in the world.
So can you just talk about whatwould your advice be someone
who's been through a lot of painon how they can use that for
purpose?
Leon Ford (39:00):
Absolutely.
I would encourage someone,right, if anyone listening to
this.
If you think about one of themost painful experiences of your
life and and view it throughthe lens of solutions, right,
like how could this have beendifferent?
(39:20):
You know, if I could haveleaned on anyone and they could
have gave me any type ofresource, what would that
resource have been?
Right?
And then you could positionyourself right as an expert.
You know, and as you positionyourself as an expert with the
solutions you know, if this issomething that you're truly
(39:44):
passionate about, you'll feel itin your soul Like, you'll feel
the passion, you'll feel thefulfillment and you become an
expert.
It's kind of like for my life,almost every experience that I
had, even something that youknow I was ashamed of, right,
(40:04):
like you know, when my fatherwent to prison when I was five
and he didn't come home until Iwas 19 years old.
But now I mentor young men andwomen who have parents who are
incarcerated.
You know I talked to men whoare incarcerated about how to
(40:25):
build relationships with theirchildren.
You know, on the outside I lostwhen I was 13, I lost my sister
and you know I helped withgrief counseling, right, I mean,
there's so many aspects of myexperience that you know I
(40:45):
leveraged to help other peopleand, you know, for those people
who have experienced painfulsituations, you know I'd
encourage them to again beyourself as an expert, be very
authentic, right and open-mindedwhen you are sharing your story
, when you are looking at yourstory, because you never know
(41:08):
who your story can help.
Doug Smith (41:10):
Come on Well, leon.
Thank you for sharing yourstory.
Again, people can get your bookand again we'll include links
to that in the show notes whereyou can read about a story and
the lessons.
There's so many lessons alreadyto unpack from this, but I just
want to say thank you on behalfof the thousands and thousands
of people that you've alreadyhelped.
Thank you for turning your paininto purpose.
You could have gone a differentdirection, you could have made
it all for naught, but you'reusing your life to make a
(41:33):
difference and, man, that's whyI love you so much and I just
can't wait to see how you'reusing the future.
Leon Ford (41:37):
I love you too, man, and I'm looking forward to
seeing you here soon.
Doug Smith (41:41):
Yeah and hey.
Before we end we have to jumpinto the lightning round.
So these are fun questions Iask at the end of every
interview.
The first one is and Leon wasnot prepped for any of these, so
let's go Real authentic answerswhat is the best advice you've
ever received and who gave it toyou?
Leon Ford (41:56):
Woo, my grandfather.
He told me I was depressed andhe told me you're experiencing
the lowest moment of your liferight now, but it's impossible
to fall off the floor.
The only way to go is up, andhow high you climb is up to you.
Doug Smith (42:13):
Come on, grandpa, let's go.
That's good stuff, man.
If you could put a quote on abillboard for anyone to read,
what would it say?
Leon Ford (42:20):
I love you.
Doug Smith (42:23):
Do you have a book other than your own, one or two
books that have impacted you ina significant way, that you
recommend most often?
Leon Ford (42:28):
Yeah, the Alchemist by Paulo Coelho, so good.
And let's see the Seat of theSoul by Gary Zucoff.
Doug Smith (42:41):
I haven't read that one.
I'll check it out.
You could spend time with a lotof leaders.
When you get to spend time withsomeone that you admire and
look up to and want to learnfrom, do you have a go-to
question that you always ask?
Leon Ford (42:50):
I don't.
Doug Smith (42:52):
OK, what is your biggest leadership pet peeve?
Leon Ford (42:57):
Pet peeve Leaders who know all the answers.
They think they got all theanswers and they're not open to
listening or adapting.
Doug Smith (43:09):
Lead with curiosity, bro, love it.
What is something?
I don't know if you have anactual bucket list or not, but
what's something you've done inyour life that you think
everyone should experiencebefore they die?
Leon Ford (43:18):
Skydiving.
Doug Smith (43:19):
All right.
How was that?
Leon Ford (43:22):
Oh man, it was.
I'm scared of heights, wow, andit was one of those experiences
that you know I tricked my mindinto, but it opened me up.
I was like man, if I could dothis, I can do anything, wow.
Doug Smith (43:40):
Would you do it again?
Oh yeah, have you been?
No, no.
It's on the bucket list.
Leon Ford (43:47):
We can go together and film it for you.
We could do like an L3leadership skydiving thing.
Doug Smith (43:58):
Let's go, man.
It's like the Tony RobbinsFirewalk.
Instead of that, we'll justjump out of a plane.
Exactly, let's go, man.
Stay tuned for that.
Listeners, we'll get that videoout as soon as it happens.
Leon Ford (44:10):
Well, hold us to this .
I'm down.
We got to hold Doug to this,I'm in.
Doug Smith (44:15):
I'm in man.
I have to make sure my wife'sokay with it, but I'm in man.
If you could go back, she couldcome too.
Leon Ford (44:21):
She could come too.
Doug Smith (44:24):
We'll see if that happens.
If you could go back and havecoffee with yourself at any age
and you would have actuallylistened to yourself, what age
would you meet with yourself andwhat would you be told?
That version of Leon.
Leon Ford (44:37):
I would say 14.
And I would tell myself to juststay focused on your goals and
be patient with yourself.
Doug Smith (44:50):
That's good, and I know you're a very, very young
man.
But one day, at the end of yourlife, looking back, what,
ultimately, do you want yourlegacy to be and what do you
want to be remembered for?
Leon Ford (44:59):
Yeah, I want to be remembered for just bringing joy
into the world and helping asmany people as I can help
themselves heal.
Yeah.
So, I don't want to be the oneto heal them, you know.
I want to be like the sparkright, the catalyst that remind
(45:22):
them that they are capable ofhealing themselves.
So good.
Doug Smith (45:27):
Open-ended Anything else you want to leave leaders
with today as we wrap up.
Leon Ford (45:33):
Yeah.
So if you could repeat after meevery time I speak, I do a
pledge, let's do it.
Yeah, so we must give up to goup.
Doug Smith (45:39):
We must give up to go up.
Leon Ford (45:41):
We must give up to grow up.
Doug Smith (45:43):
We must give up to grow up.
Leon Ford (45:44):
We must give up on the way up.
Doug Smith (45:46):
We must give up on the way up.
Leon Ford (45:48):
And give up even more to stay up.
Doug Smith (45:50):
And give up even more to stay up.
I cannot teach COVID-19 what Ido not know, what I do not know.
I cannot lead COVID-19 where Iwill not go.
I am because we are, because weare, because I am.
I am my brother's keeper, I ammy sister's keeper, I am Dustin
(46:19):
for greatness Because I attract,because I attract what.
Leon Ford (46:23):
I am what I am an African language.
We say a shea, a shea, a shea,a shea, a shea.
Doug Smith (46:32):
Thank you, let's go, man.
I'm ready to like run out ofthe building.
I love stuff like that man.
I might.
I might repeat that with mykids.
Thank you for sharing.
Leon Ford (46:40):
I Designed a self-care Tool kit, so I'll send
it to you.
Oh, come on in the pledges, inthat the toolkit and everything.
Doug Smith (46:50):
Well, leon, it's an honor to call you friend.
Thank you for taking the timeto be on the podcast and by the
time people are listening this,you have already spoken out
Three at L3 one day, but thankyou for doing that and just
thank you, everything thatyou're doing for people in the
planet and making it a betterplace, man.
Thank you, brother, I love youman.
I Well.
Leader, thank you so much forlistening to my conversation
(47:12):
with Leon.
I hope that you were inspired,I hope that you were challenged
and I hope you fell in love withLeon, just like I did, cuz he
is incredible and if you'd liketo connect with him, you can
find links to ways to connectwith him and everything that we
discussed in the show notes atL3 leadership org forward, slash
414.
And, as always, leader, I likedand every episode with a quote.
Now quote Mark train today, whosaid this.
He said always do right.
(47:33):
It will gratify some people andastonish the rest.
Well, leader, I said everyepisode, but know that my wife
Lauren, I love you, we believein you and don't quit, keep
leading.
The world desperately needsyour leadership.
I'll talk to you next episode.
I.
Hey, leader, and welcome to another episode of
the L3 Leadership Podcast, wherewe are obsessed with helping
you grow to your maximumpotential and to maximize the
impact of your leadership.
My name is Doug Smith and I amyour host, and today's episode
is brought to you by my friendsat Beratung Advisors.
We also recorded this live fromthe new Bergo Realty Studio.
If you're new to the podcast,welcome.
I'm so glad that you're hereand I hope that you enjoy our
content and become a subscriber.
(00:39):
Know that you can also watchall of our episodes over on our
YouTube channel, so make sureyou're subscribed there as well.
And, as always, if you've beenlistening to the podcast and
it's made an impact on your life, it would mean the world to me.
If you leave a rating andreview on Apple Podcast or
Spotify or wherever you listento podcasts through, that really
does help us to grow ouraudience and reach more leaders,
so thank you in advance forthat All.
Leader, in this week's episode,you're going to hear my
(01:00):
conversation with Leon Ford, andif you do not know Leon, you
are in for a treat.
I've been hearing about him foryears that I need to meet with
him, and I had the opportunityto have lunch with him in fall
last year, and having lunch withhim was one of the top five
highlights of my year.
He's that powerful and hisstory is that powerful.
But I don't want to ruinanything, because he's going to
(01:20):
share a lot of his story in thisconversation and so I'll let
you get to know Leon.
But here's what I can promiseyou you're going to be inspired,
you're going to be challenged,you're going to fall in love
with Leon.
He is incredible.
But before we dive into hisstory, just a few announcements.
This episode of the L3Leadership Podcast is sponsored
by Beratung Advisors.
The financial advisors atBeratung Advisors help educate
(01:40):
and empower clients to makeinformed financial decisions.
You can find out how BeratungAdvisors can help you develop a
customized financial plan foryour financial future by
visiting their website atwwwberatungadvisorscom that's
B-E-R-A-T-U-N-G-Advisorscom.
These investment products andservices offered through LPL
Financial, member of FINRA andSIPC, Beratung Advisors, LPL
(02:03):
Financial and L3 Leadership areseparate entities.
I also want to thank our sponsor, Henne Jewelers.
They're a jeweler earned by myfriend and mentor, john Henne,
and my wife Laura and I got ourengagement and wedding rings
through Henne Jewelers and hadan incredible experience.
And not only do they have greatjewelry, but they also invest
in people.
In fact, for every couple thatcomes in and gays, they give
them a book to help them preparefor marriage, and we just love
(02:23):
that.
So if you're in need of a goodjeweler, check out
HenneJewelerscom.
And with all that being said,let's dive right in.
Here's my conversation withLeon Ford.
Well, Leon Ford, welcome to theL3 Leadership Podcast.
It made it such a joy to get toknow you.
We had lunch maybe two monthsago, and I was telling many
(02:44):
people since that that was oneof the highlights of my year in
2023.
And it's just such an honor toget to know you.
And obviously, after meetingyou and hearing your story, I'm
like everyone on the planetneeds to hear this, and so
really look forward to theconversation, brother.
Leon Ford (02:58):
Oh man, thank you, doug, and you know your
leadership and everything you'redoing with L3 is very
inspirational, so I'm happy tobe a part of the family.
Man, let's go, let's go.
Doug Smith (03:10):
Well, let's dive in, and again, I've kind of shared,
but you have an incrediblestory which has actually been
documented in a book that youcame out with last year called
An Unspeakable Hope, and thetagline is brutality,
forgiveness and building abetter future for my son, and so
that's what I'll then go outthere for listeners, and why
don't you just kind of unpackthat for us with your story?
Leon Ford (03:31):
Absolutely so.
When I was 19 years old I wasshot five times by Pittsburgh
police officer Once in my neck,two times in my chest, once in
my arm and once in my hip andone of the bullets I went
through my chest actuallyparalyzed me.
So can't see it now because youknow we're like chest up, but
(03:53):
I'm actually sitting in awheelchair right now.
So I lost my ability to walkand so that speaks to the
brutality aspect.
I became a activist, you know,did a lot of organizing locally
and nationally, but along myjourney, you know, found
(04:19):
forgiveness, you know, and I'msure will unpack that, you know,
within this interview.
But you know I was able to, youknow, open my heart up to
forgive, and now I work withpolice officers.
I've trained police officersand co-founded a foundation
(04:42):
alongside the former policechief here in Pittsburgh.
Doug Smith (04:47):
Wow, what's the foundation called?
Leon Ford (04:48):
It's called the hear foundation and the name of the
foundation comes from this ideathat we don't have all the
answers you know, and so we'reactively listening to community,
to their needs, and not justyou know, the community, but
also what are the needs of ourpolice officers?
Doug Smith (05:11):
Yeah, Well, we'll unpack that a little bit later,
but you just kind of shared anoverview of your story, which is
incredible.
But you know that was quite ajourney and so you know, I want
to kind of dive in.
You know, after you got shot,you know you sounded so
nonchalantly like I eventuallyforgave.
You know, did the next day youwake up and say, oh, it's no big
(05:32):
deal?
You know, hey, I forgive you,it's all good.
Like, what was that journey toforgiveness?
Like, did you, did you dealwith bitterness?
Did you deal with frustration,depression, like, walk us
through you know, the months andyears after that happened?
Leon Ford (05:46):
Oh, yeah, it was, you know, certainly years of
depression, years of resentment,years of anger, years of hatred
.
You know I, you know there weremoments where I felt completely
consumed by hatred.
Now I remember vividly, youknow, waking up in the hospital
(06:10):
and looking up the article aboutme being shot and it said black
teen shot by a white policeofficer.
And I remember going to readthe comments and the comments
were extremely racist, you know,racial comments about me, about
(06:31):
my family, you know, and it washeartbreaking.
And so in that moment I toldmyself that I not only hated
police officers but I hatedwhite people.
Wow.
And However, my nurses and mydoctors were so nice to me, they
took such good care of me and Icredit them, along with my
(06:58):
sixth grade teacher, Ms Shank,who came to visit me, for
helping to soften my heart, andthey didn't know it at the time,
but I felt this deep hatred toall white people and I said to
myself, well, I hate all whitepeople, but Ms Shank, you know,
and I hate all white people, butyou know my nurses and my
(07:21):
doctors, and so you know thatexperience really helped keep my
heart open and eventually I was, you know, open to, you know,
going to the Pittsburgh friendsmeeting and building a
relationship with the Quakershere in Pittsburgh, which, you
(07:44):
know, when I went, it waspredominantly white people.
And then I would meet some, youknow, police officers who, you
know, saw my humanity and theywould, you know, talk to me and
they would say, man, this is,you know, wrong, would you
experience, and things like that.
(08:05):
And so, you know, I took aliking to those people when I
realized that, you know,sometimes we experience things
in life that makes us, you know,judge an entire group of people
which is, you know, sometimes,you know it could be justified
to that person experiencing thatpain.
(08:25):
And so, you know, now, as I,you know, navigate life, I'm
very intentional about, you know, showing up with kindness, with
grace and wisdom when Iinteract with people, because
you never know what theirexperience has been and how they
(08:46):
may feel about a group that yourepresent.
It may not be you, you know,but you know trauma is trauma,
man, and you know, people haveexperienced, you know, different
trauma on different levels, andso those experiences really
helped me become morecompassionate.
(09:07):
But it took years, bro, like I'mtalking.
I'm talking five or six yearsof, you know of this dance
between hope and despair.
And the hope led me to want to,you know, embrace people and
build relationships.
(09:28):
But then that despair, you knowthat's where that hatred came,
you know, and the resentment,and it was like a pendulum, bro.
It was like you know, some daysI would be talking about
healing and hope and inspiration, and in other days I was just
(09:48):
in such a dark place that Ididn't even, you know, I didn't
even want to live, you know.
You know I struggled with, youknow, those, you know, negative
thoughts of not even wanting tobe alive, bro.
So it was tough.
Doug Smith (10:04):
Yeah, and I would love to and I'm so sorry that
you had to go through that.
But on the other end of that,you know, one day you were
better, the other day there washope.
And I feel like there's so manypeople listening to this.
You know we all, we say all thetime at light of life that the
average adult, by the time theyreach adulthood, has had at
least one traumatic experience.
And you know, for light of life, oftentimes the men and women
(10:26):
walking through our doors haveexperienced three or four by the
time they're 18.
And then multiple thereafter.
And just with the mental healthcrisis in our nation, I mean, I
feel like so many people haveexperienced so many things and I
feel like they walk that sameline that you were walking and I
feel like if they feed thebitterness end, then they're
going to get on one path.
If they feed the hope end, whatadvice would you have for
(10:46):
someone, regardless of whatthey've experienced, who's
walking that line?
What would you tell that personlistening today?
Leon Ford (10:53):
Well one.
I would encourage them to stayas close as possible to the
people who are bringing lightinto their lives.
Right, you know I talk a lotabout mentorship.
You know, and I was able toseek out, you know, positive
mentors who would pour into mewisdom.
(11:16):
You know, spirituality, love,compassion, understanding.
They would make space for meand encourage me.
I really needed that.
I would read, you know,literature that was encouraging
and inspirational.
I would be mindful of the musicthat I listened to.
You know I would only listen topositive music and positive
(11:40):
podcasts.
I would stay away from, youknow, any negative music.
You know people, you know whoyou know had a more of a
negative perspective of life,people who were doing the wrong
things.
And you know it's interestingbecause I would simultaneously
(12:03):
grow as a leader as I washealing from the inside out.
I also go to therapy.
You know, talking to someoneprofessional, you know, was very
instrumental in my growth.
And I would also say thattalking to professionals helped
(12:27):
my relationships right, evenwith loved ones, because once,
you know, I began going totherapy, my brother became my
brother and my sister became mysister.
My cousins were just my cousins.
You know, my parents were myparents.
They weren't my therapist.
You know, and oftentimes youknow we lean on friends.
(12:48):
It's interesting, I havefriends right now who lean on me
to have conversations that theywould have with a therapist but
they say they would never go totherapy.
And so the benefit of you know,finding a good therapist and
having those conversations isthat you get to really enjoy
(13:11):
those relationships, you know,on a deeper level, without you
know sharing that trauma.
You know, and you know youcould work through that trauma
with your therapist instead ofunpacking them with your loved
ones who's now carrying it withthem wherever they go.
You know I've become a betterfriend.
(13:33):
I've become a better leader,more thoughtful, more
compassionate and understanding.
Doug Smith (13:41):
I love that and you know, one of our core values at
L3 is community.
We always say that no leadershould ever do life alone, but
in community, and who you spendtime with, as you just said, is
extremely important, regardlessof what you've gone through.
If you surround yourself withnegative people who are bitter,
that's the path you're gonna go.
If you surround yourself withpositive people who fill you
with hope and encouragement,that's the direction you're
gonna go.
And you know I always tellpeople that the community you
(14:02):
need is one in which you'refully known, fully loved and
fully challenged.
And fully known is just, youcould be yourself, share
anything.
Fully loved is you're gonna beloved unconditionally,
regardless.
But the third part and I wantyou to share a story here is
fully challenged, and Ibasically tell people you know
sometimes we need a hug and apat on the back, but other times
we need slapped in the face.
And I know you had acircumstance come up where you
(14:27):
went on a social media rant andI believe a few mentors who
loved you fully and know youfully also challenged you fully
and that ended up changing yourlife.
Can you share that story?
Absolutely?
Leon Ford (14:38):
So, after George Floyd was murdered, I remember
our former mayor, bill Puduto,and the former police chief,
scott Schubert.
They had a press conference onthe news and you know something
about this press conferencetriggered me and I went to
(15:02):
Twitter, which is now X and Ikind of went on this rant.
I did, I went on it, not kindof yeah, that's funny I went on
a rant and called them racists,you know, called the mayor
racist, called the chief racist.
I said they didn't care aboutblack people and all these
(15:24):
things.
The interesting thing aboutthat is there was, like this
instant gratification to bedivisive, because each of those
tweets got hundreds of retweets,right, and so I was kind of
encouraged to dive deeper intothat darkness, right.
(15:50):
However, two people reached outto me.
One was John Henney of HenneyJewelers, who was, you know,
near and dear to my heart andhe's like one of my closest
mentors, and he basically saidhey, you know, do you really
(16:12):
think, you know, bill was racist, you know.
And I was like, yeah, you know,no-transcript.
He challenged me on that.
I don't think he's racist and Iwould love for you to sit down
with him.
Have you ever sat down with him?
And I had not.
(16:32):
And John basically facilitateda meeting between Bill Padooto
Dan Gilman was there and myselfand we just hit it off.
I mean, bill, just he justtexted me today his article that
(16:54):
he wrote.
But you know we're friends.
You know, make a long storyshorter.
John challenged me and I'vebecome friends with, you know,
someone that I completely triedto destroy on social media.
And the same thing with Laura.
You know she reached out to mehave you ever sat down with the
(17:18):
chief?
And at that point I had not andshe facilitated a lunch with
our former chief, scott Schubertand I and we became friends and
out of that friendship we wereable to, you know, several
months later, you know, we beginhaving conversations about
(17:39):
collaborating on a project andthat project eventually became
the here foundation that weco-founded together, and our
first year we raised over $2million.
Last year we gave out over$300,000 across, I believe, 18
(18:01):
different organizations, and soyou know, I won an event.
You know my mentors, you knowthey brought me into the light
and a lot of good came out of mebeing open to sitting down with
people I thought you knownegatively about.
Doug Smith (18:19):
Yeah, and I want you to.
I do instead of I want to.
I want you to take us to thosemeetings, whether it was lunch
or coffee or whatever.
You know when you're one, youknow.
When John said, do you reallythink that you need to have a
meeting?
Like what were you feelinggoing into the meeting?
Like, was there fear, was thereanger?
And then when you actually satdown, like what was?
(18:41):
What was that experience like?
To get to the point where itwent from your racist hey, now
we're buddies and let's dosomething together.
Leon Ford (18:49):
Yeah, one.
I trust both, you know, johnand Laura.
You know I trust them too withmy life, and so I knew, you know
this, these meetings were beingfacilitated by people who
genuinely cared about me.
(19:09):
There was no ulterior motive,it wasn't political, there
wasn't going to be cameras andall these things, and I believe
that, you know, bill Puduto, danGilman and Scott Schubert felt
the same way.
So trust was at the root of the, the meeting or exchange.
(19:32):
And so, going to the meetingwith Bill and Dan, I had this
level of like openness.
You know, I didn't.
I didn't have any expectations,but I was open to the idea that
they may not be racist.
You know, I was open to theidea that they could be good
(19:57):
people.
I believe that openness camepartly from my trust and, john,
you know, and I remember sittingdown and saying, you know, I
didn't really have a desire totalk about the past.
You know, this wasn't a meetingwhere I just wanted to say you
(20:19):
know, this is how I felt.
You know, when I was shot andthings like that, you know I I
said, you know I remember sayingyou know, I want to talk about
the future.
You know, I want to talk abouthow we can, you know, do good
things and prevent this fromhappening again.
And they had this very similarperspective and we talked about
(20:43):
solutions.
That was, I mean, that's itLike we.
You know it's beautiful we doveright into solutions and they
acknowledged my pain, you know,and they share.
You know some things about.
You know the decisions you knowthey have to make as leaders
(21:03):
and you know how complicated itis and you know how, when you,
when they try to appease thisgroup, they pissed this group
off and you know all thepolitical things and they, you
know, broke it down to me in away that you know, I really
understood, you know, and Iwouldn't say we came out of that
(21:23):
group like hugging each other,but it was, it was the follow up
, it was a step Right, you knowthe openness, you know text
messages and phone calls, youknow that really helped us, you
know, build that bond, you know.
And the same thing with Scott.
(21:43):
I would say, you know I was alittle bit more aloof going into
the meeting with Scott and thatwas just because he was a
police officer, right, you knowhim, you know being a chief of
police, his badge, you know, I'mlike man.
(22:04):
I don't trust any policeofficers, but it was interesting
because I didn't meet.
I didn't have a meeting withChief Schubert, I had a meeting
with Scott and that made thebiggest difference in the world,
(22:25):
you know, and he shared hisstory, I shared my story.
He shared his love forPittsburgh and for his father,
who was a Pittsburgh policeofficer, and how he looked up to
his father and that's whatinspired him to become a police
officer.
I mean, we had so manysimilarities in our stories and
(22:47):
I think that is what reallyopened up my heart.
You know, to.
You know, get to a place whereI consider, you know, scott, a
friend and was open to, you know, collaborating with them around
the here foundation.
Doug Smith (23:04):
Yeah, there's so much I want to unpack there.
The first question that comesin my mind is just what did you
learn through this journey aboutjudging or judging others?
You know, I feel like we livein a culture where that's all we
do, right?
It's like whether it's judgingsomeone and we're judging all
these people.
We don't know, we don't knowtheir intentions.
We're judging them based on onelittle snippet of their life or
one decision, Like I'm justcurious, what have you learned
(23:24):
about judging and what advicewould you give to people who may
judge often and get theretweets and get excited and you
know yeah, yeah, I wouldencourage people not to fall
victim to the instantgratification of division.
Leon Ford (23:39):
It's easy to choose a side and, you know, feel good
because you're getting retweetsor comments by people who think
similarly as you.
And you know it takes realleadership to think outside of
the box and to lean intosolutions, right, and so you
(24:05):
know, I'd encourage people tobecome more open-minded, to ask
questions, to use theircuriosity, right.
A lot of times people credit mycourage for some of the
decisions I make as a leader,but I would say, and I believe,
that it's more curiosity thancourage, right, because I'm
(24:30):
genuinely curious to understandwhat someone else's lived
experiences may have been, tolet them to see the world the
way they see the world.
I understand, you know I seethe world, you know, through a
different lens than you may seethe world, doug, based on where
I grew up, who I grew up with.
(24:52):
Different parts of myexperience that I hold on to.
This part of me, that I hold onto that social norms may say is
wrong, right, but theconditioning was so strong in my
upbringing that it's hard forme to let go of these beliefs
(25:14):
and I challenged myself on them,beliefs, you know, every time I
find myself leaning into thatbelief, I'm like, hey, you know,
I have to check myself becauseof self-awareness, right, and so
I would also encourage peopleto give themselves grace.
Right, and not grace at a pointyou become complacent in your
(25:36):
beliefs, but grace to understandthat it takes time to unpack
and unlearn many things that welearned through our social
conditioning, and so giveyourself grace, but also be
intentional about unlearning andrelearning different things
(25:58):
about society, so that you don'tfind yourself judging people.
Doug Smith (26:02):
That's so good.
You know our executive directorat Light of Life, joe Gilliams,
a mentor in my life and as Istepped into a new role under
him.
He just said lead withcuriosity.
And he said let me give youthree beautiful words to lead
with.
Help me understand, don't go intrying to do all, just hey.
Help me understand what you do,help me understand your
(26:24):
perspective and man, that's beenso beautiful and just with you.
Know what you've been sharingand the meetings that you had.
You know I heard Mr Rogers saidonce that there isn't a person
on the planet that you couldn'tlearn to love if you just heard
their story.
Do you agree with that?
Leon Ford (26:39):
Absolutely, you know, even so I explore and I play
with this idea of generouscuriosity.
And so, to that point, justimagine if we let our curiosity
take us to look at thefive-year-old you know version
(27:03):
of, you know, a world leader whomay have caused a lot of
destruction, right, thatfive-year-old version you know
may have had a Tunk of Truck orsome type of doll and was a
typical kid, right?
So what happened in betweenbeing a five-year-old with a
doll or a truck or a teddy bearto you know, growing up, to you
(27:28):
know, take a life, right.
And I think if we became morecurious to unpack, you know, the
conditioning of what had tohappen in between those two
points of life.
One, we could understand thethinking of, you know, these
(27:50):
people who grow up to be violent.
And two, we can maybe catch,you know, save their hearts,
right, or save their mindsbefore they get to a point of
committing a violent act.
But it takes curiosity.
Too often we are reactive, youknow, and we see people acting
(28:18):
out, you know, in the media, orwe see, you know, people going
to prison for different thingsand we lock them away, you know.
And my perspective is more, howcould we be preventative, right
?
How can we show up and getpeople what they need before
(28:39):
their hearts become hardened orbefore they lose hope in the
world?
Doug Smith (28:46):
Yeah, that's so good .
Another one unpack is justunforgiveness, and forgive me if
I don't remember something upmy head, but I believe, though
the police officer that shot you, he kept his job correct Is he.
Did you ever meet with him inreconcile, and I can-.
Leon Ford (29:00):
Yeah, yep, yep, yep.
So I met with the officer whoshot me.
Well, I think that was maybetwo years ago, wow, and
everybody thought I was crazy.
Yeah, yeah, but it was reallycuriosity, right, like to your
mentor's point.
You know, can you help meunderstand, you know, and not in
(29:28):
a sense of like you know, thisneed for some type of
retribution or accountability oranything like that, but I
genuinely wanted to understand.
You know how and why.
You know, how did this happen?
Why did this happen?
(29:49):
Because, from my perspective youknow, the two of us we're the
ones that you know had thismoment on the side of the road
and if we were able to unpackwhat happened without, you know,
attorneys of involved, you know, my perspective is like we have
(30:13):
the answers right, we have thesolution To you know, to see,
you know, what type of trainingcould be done.
You know what type of awarenesscan we create, you know, within
community Again, to prevent thisfrom happening again.
And so, you know, I've met with, over the years, several
(30:33):
different police officers whoknew the officer who shot me and
they kind of help, you know,facilitate it, you know.
And so there was a pastor thereand and a Commander, who's now
a chief for Duquesne University,and we, we got to talk, you
(30:56):
know, we got to talk aboutsolutions, we got to talk about
his experience after theshooting game in mind, and it
was a very interestingdiscussion because In many ways
I never considered and you know,my pain wouldn't allow me to
(31:19):
consider what he may have wentthrough, and so hearing it from
him was Very out opening.
Doug Smith (31:28):
Wow, and I'm assuming that you've come to a
place where you've forgiven him,if you're willing to meet him.
What have you learned aboutforgiveness through this whole
process, because I'm sure manypeople are dealing with
unforgiveness listening to this.
Leon Ford (31:41):
Yeah, I forget.
This is a choice, right, butit's also not Like, it's not a
threshold that you cross, it'snot a finished line.
You don't wake up one dayforgive and and how you made it.
It's.
It is a pendulum, bro.
It swings back and forth andand and you know, to this day.
(32:07):
You know I have some days Iwake up frustrated and angry.
I'm a human, right, and, and soI think Oftentimes people Look
at examples of forgiveness andthey see those examples, they
see the public figure of thoseexamples, right, so people may
(32:27):
see me smiling.
You know it was.
You know you know they to talkabout dr King, right, you know
they share stories about dr King, but you know there's not a lot
of examples of people sharing.
You know about the behind thescenes of that process, right,
(32:51):
and so I'd encourage people oneTo consider forgiveness for them
, right, it's not for the otherperson.
Forgiveness is more Connectedto quality of life for me, and
so what I asked you was can youimagine my life if, every time I
saw a police officer, I wastriggered?
(33:12):
Yeah, and you know, and ittriggered the hatred and
resentment in me.
I would not have a good qualityof life.
I could be at the park with myson having a great time and see
a police officer.
They completely have a bad dayand I didn't want anyone to have
that amount of power over myhappiness.
I had to take my power back byjust letting go, and it's not my
(33:33):
.
You know responsibility to like.
You know Be stuck on, like whataccountability looks like and
all these things you know, andso I let it go.
The other thing is, you know,give yourself up for the rest of
your life, so I let it go.
(33:53):
The other thing is, you know,give yourself grace.
You know you can work towardsletting it go.
You could.
You know I encourage people tochoose forgiveness.
You know, every day, you know,and it's like the light man,
it's like you're choosing up towalk in the light every day when
(34:14):
, but some days, you know yourenergy may be low and you know
you may be in pain or you mayhave watched a movie or there
may be something that triggersyou and it's okay to feel those
emotions fully, right, so thatdoesn't mean you haven't
(34:35):
forgiven, and I think it's veryimportant to feel those emotions
fully Because it's kind of likea baby man.
You ever see a baby cry.
Oh yeah, they let it all out,man, until they don't even have
any more left and they probablyforget about what they were
(34:57):
crying about and just moveforward.
As adults, man, we hold on tothings.
We suppress our emotions.
You know Men and women do it,you know, and you know we try to
just get through life Withoutever, you know, feeling those
feelings fully, and so Iencourage people to feel fully,
(35:17):
acknowledge those emotions andthen let it go.
And when you let it go, youknow that's where the real
forgiveness happens.
But then, you know again, giveyourself grace.
If you're ever triggered andyou feel like man, I, you know,
I hate this person today, youknow, give yourself grace and
(35:40):
say yo, it's okay, I feel likethis today, but I won't feel
like this tomorrow, wow.
Doug Smith (35:47):
I'm trying to think about a word, this question.
But you know we live in a worldwhere justice is important and
we're talking about judgment too.
So there's situations thathappen where it's like, okay,
justice has to be served,someone needs to get what they
deserve.
But then there's also, like thelove, forgiveness and grace
side.
How do you balance whether youknow it's your situation or you
see another situation ofsomething tragic that happens?
(36:07):
Maybe it's police and whateverwhatever the situation is, how
do you personally balance, likethe need for we need to make
this right, justice needs to beserved, people need to go what
they deserve versus man.
We need to love each other,forgive each other and reconcile
, like how, how do you balancethat tension?
Leon Ford (36:23):
Yeah, I was a.
You know, forgiveness orunforgiveness is not synonymous
with accountability, right, youcan still hold someone
accountable, right?
So if you wrong me, right, andI forgave you, I'm like, yeah,
(36:43):
I'm letting this go, thatdoesn't mean I can't have a
conversation with you about howyou hurt me.
Hmm, right, it just means thatyou don't have to control over
my happiness, you don't have tocontrol over my peace of mind.
Now I will argue thatForgiveness gives you, you know,
(37:04):
a level of mental clarity,right to Position yourself, to
fight for justice in a way thatyou know, holding on, you know,
to that anger and resentmentdoesn't afford you the
opportunity to.
It's like boxing, right, youknow, I used to box man and a
(37:28):
lot of people think boxing.
You know, it's about purestrength and and just being
angry and being a good fighter.
No, it's a science to it.
But you know what the one yousee somebody to get angry and
lose their mental clarity, it'sover, you know, I mean, they get
picked apart, you know, and soI'd encourage people to use
(37:51):
forgiveness as a tool to Helpthem have a sound mind and with
that sound mind, they couldbecome more strategic, more
intentional, more focused onSolutions.
You know I see it all the timewith you know activists, and you
(38:11):
know you know some activistsare so Emotionally connected to
the movement that is hard forthem To make strategic decisions
that I get them closer to theresolution that they're looking
for.
Doug Smith (38:29):
Wow, thank you for sharing that.
One more topic I want to coverbefore we go into the lighting
round, which is a bunch of funquestions.
I always ask, man, I've heardyou talking in other interviews
about just how you've you'vebeen able to experience a
certain pain and a purposeYou've mentioned it several
times here already of kind ofwhat you're doing today.
But I feel like, man, that'sone reason I feel like we
connected so well.
You know, I have a lot of painin my background and and to live
(38:50):
intentionally, make adifference with that pain makes
all the difference in the world.
So can you just talk about whatwould your advice be someone
who's been through a lot of painon how they can use that for
purpose?
Leon Ford (39:00):
Absolutely.
I would encourage someone,right, if anyone listening to
this.
If you think about one of themost painful experiences of your
life and and view it throughthe lens of solutions, right,
like how could this have beendifferent?
(39:20):
You know, if I could haveleaned on anyone and they could
have gave me any type ofresource, what would that
resource have been?
Right?
And then you could positionyourself right as an expert.
You know, and as you positionyourself as an expert with the
solutions you know, if this issomething that you're truly
(39:44):
passionate about, you'll feel itin your soul Like, you'll feel
the passion, you'll feel thefulfillment and you become an
expert.
It's kind of like for my life,almost every experience that I
had, even something that youknow I was ashamed of, right,
(40:04):
like you know, when my fatherwent to prison when I was five
and he didn't come home until Iwas 19 years old.
But now I mentor young men andwomen who have parents who are
incarcerated.
You know I talked to men whoare incarcerated about how to
(40:25):
build relationships with theirchildren.
You know, on the outside I lostwhen I was 13, I lost my sister
and you know I helped withgrief counseling, right, I mean,
there's so many aspects of myexperience that you know I
(40:45):
leveraged to help other peopleand, you know, for those people
who have experienced painfulsituations, you know I'd
encourage them to again beyourself as an expert, be very
authentic, right and open-mindedwhen you are sharing your story
, when you are looking at yourstory, because you never know
(41:08):
who your story can help.
Doug Smith (41:10):
Come on Well, leon.
Thank you for sharing yourstory.
Again, people can get your bookand again we'll include links
to that in the show notes whereyou can read about a story and
the lessons.
There's so many lessons alreadyto unpack from this, but I just
want to say thank you on behalfof the thousands and thousands
of people that you've alreadyhelped.
Thank you for turning your paininto purpose.
You could have gone a differentdirection, you could have made
it all for naught, but you'reusing your life to make a
(41:33):
difference and, man, that's whyI love you so much and I just
can't wait to see how you'reusing the future.
Leon Ford (41:37):
I love you too, man, and I'm looking forward to
seeing you here soon.
Doug Smith (41:41):
Yeah and hey.
Before we end we have to jumpinto the lightning round.
So these are fun questions Iask at the end of every
interview.
The first one is and Leon wasnot prepped for any of these, so
let's go Real authentic answerswhat is the best advice you've
ever received and who gave it toyou?
Leon Ford (41:56):
Woo, my grandfather.
He told me I was depressed andhe told me you're experiencing
the lowest moment of your liferight now, but it's impossible
to fall off the floor.
The only way to go is up, andhow high you climb is up to you.
Doug Smith (42:13):
Come on, grandpa, let's go.
That's good stuff, man.
If you could put a quote on abillboard for anyone to read,
what would it say?
Leon Ford (42:20):
I love you.
Doug Smith (42:23):
Do you have a book other than your own, one or two
books that have impacted you ina significant way, that you
recommend most often?
Leon Ford (42:28):
Yeah, the Alchemist by Paulo Coelho, so good.
And let's see the Seat of theSoul by Gary Zucoff.
Doug Smith (42:41):
I haven't read that one.
I'll check it out.
You could spend time with a lotof leaders.
When you get to spend time withsomeone that you admire and
look up to and want to learnfrom, do you have a go-to
question that you always ask?
Leon Ford (42:50):
I don't.
Doug Smith (42:52):
OK, what is your biggest leadership pet peeve?
Leon Ford (42:57):
Pet peeve Leaders who know all the answers.
They think they got all theanswers and they're not open to
listening or adapting.
Doug Smith (43:09):
Lead with curiosity, bro, love it.
What is something?
I don't know if you have anactual bucket list or not, but
what's something you've done inyour life that you think
everyone should experiencebefore they die?
Leon Ford (43:18):
Skydiving.
Doug Smith (43:19):
All right.
How was that?
Leon Ford (43:22):
Oh man, it was.
I'm scared of heights, wow, andit was one of those experiences
that you know I tricked my mindinto, but it opened me up.
I was like man, if I could dothis, I can do anything, wow.
Doug Smith (43:40):
Would you do it again?
Oh yeah, have you been?
No, no.
It's on the bucket list.
Leon Ford (43:47):
We can go together and film it for you.
We could do like an L3leadership skydiving thing.
Doug Smith (43:58):
Let's go, man.
It's like the Tony RobbinsFirewalk.
Instead of that, we'll justjump out of a plane.
Exactly, let's go, man.
Stay tuned for that.
Listeners, we'll get that videoout as soon as it happens.
Leon Ford (44:10):
Well, hold us to this .
I'm down.
We got to hold Doug to this,I'm in.
Doug Smith (44:15):
I'm in man.
I have to make sure my wife'sokay with it, but I'm in man.
If you could go back, she couldcome too.
Leon Ford (44:21):
She could come too.
Doug Smith (44:24):
We'll see if that happens.
If you could go back and havecoffee with yourself at any age
and you would have actuallylistened to yourself, what age
would you meet with yourself andwhat would you be told?
That version of Leon.
Leon Ford (44:37):
I would say 14.
And I would tell myself to juststay focused on your goals and
be patient with yourself.
Doug Smith (44:50):
That's good, and I know you're a very, very young
man.
But one day, at the end of yourlife, looking back, what,
ultimately, do you want yourlegacy to be and what do you
want to be remembered for?
Leon Ford (44:59):
Yeah, I want to be remembered for just bringing joy
into the world and helping asmany people as I can help
themselves heal.
Yeah.
So, I don't want to be the oneto heal them, you know.
I want to be like the sparkright, the catalyst that remind
(45:22):
them that they are capable ofhealing themselves.
So good.
Doug Smith (45:27):
Open-ended Anything else you want to leave leaders
with today as we wrap up.
Leon Ford (45:33):
Yeah.
So if you could repeat after meevery time I speak, I do a
pledge, let's do it.
Yeah, so we must give up to goup.
Doug Smith (45:39):
We must give up to go up.
Leon Ford (45:41):
We must give up to grow up.
Doug Smith (45:43):
We must give up to grow up.
Leon Ford (45:44):
We must give up on the way up.
Doug Smith (45:46):
We must give up on the way up.
Leon Ford (45:48):
And give up even more to stay up.
Doug Smith (45:50):
And give up even more to stay up.
I cannot teach COVID-19 what Ido not know, what I do not know.
I cannot lead COVID-19 where Iwill not go.
I am because we are, because weare, because I am.
I am my brother's keeper, I ammy sister's keeper, I am Dustin
(46:19):
for greatness Because I attract,because I attract what.
Leon Ford (46:23):
I am what I am an African language.
We say a shea, a shea, a shea,a shea, a shea.
Doug Smith (46:32):
Thank you, let's go, man.
I'm ready to like run out ofthe building.
I love stuff like that man.
I might.
I might repeat that with mykids.
Thank you for sharing.
Leon Ford (46:40):
I Designed a self-care Tool kit, so I'll send
it to you.
Oh, come on in the pledges, inthat the toolkit and everything.
Doug Smith (46:50):
Well, leon, it's an honor to call you friend.
Thank you for taking the timeto be on the podcast and by the
time people are listening this,you have already spoken out
Three at L3 one day, but thankyou for doing that and just
thank you, everything thatyou're doing for people in the
planet and making it a betterplace, man.
Thank you, brother, I love youman.
I Well.
Leader, thank you so much forlistening to my conversation
(47:12):
with Leon.
I hope that you were inspired,I hope that you were challenged
and I hope you fell in love withLeon, just like I did, cuz he
is incredible and if you'd liketo connect with him, you can
find links to ways to connectwith him and everything that we
discussed in the show notes atL3 leadership org forward, slash
414.
And, as always, leader, I likedand every episode with a quote.
Now quote Mark train today, whosaid this.
He said always do right.
(47:33):
It will gratify some people andastonish the rest.
Well, leader, I said everyepisode, but know that my wife
Lauren, I love you, we believein you and don't quit, keep
leading.
The world desperately needsyour leadership.
I'll talk to you next episode.
I.
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