Episode Summary: In this episode of the L3 Leadership Podcast, William Vanderbloeman joins Doug to share the groundbreaking insights he’s gained from conducting over 30,000 interviews and shares strategies that will equip you to identify and become the 'unicorn' in your professional sphere.
About William Vanderbloeman: William brings over 15 years of ministry experience as a Senior Pastor, blending it seamlessly with executive search best practices to offer faith-based organizations a distinctive service. Before establishing Vanderbloemen Search Group, he apprenticed in executive search under a seasoned mentor with over 25 years of experience, gaining insights into corporate practices and search strategies used by renowned firms like Russell Reynolds. William's background also includes managerial roles in Human Resources within a Fortune 200 company, focusing on corporate culture integration and succession planning. His pastoral journey, which spans churches in North Carolina, Alabama, and Houston, includes transformative experiences such as rebuilding and relocating congregations and leading a historic Houston church as its Senior Pastor. William's expertise extends beyond the pulpit; he is a sought-after speaker at churches and conferences nationwide and the author of several acclaimed books on pastoral leadership and succession planning. Holding degrees from Wake Forest University and Princeton Theological Seminary, William's commitment to family, networking, and personal interests like running and golfing, further enrich his professional and personal endeavors, making him a well-rounded advisor and leader in his field.
4 Key Takeaways:
1. William defines what it means to hire a “unicorn”.
2. He discusses what he’s learned about likability, and shares his thoughts on authenticity.
3. William talks about one thing that makes his hiring process unique.
4. He talks about what he believes the future of work is going to look like.
Quotes From the Episode:
“People really like being seen and recognized and noticed.”
“Look people directly in one eye.”
Resources Mentioned:
William’s Books
Connect with William:
X(Twitter) | Instagram | Linkedin
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Doug Smith (00:06):
Welcome to another episode of the L3 Leadership
Podcast, where we are obsessedwith helping you grow to your
maximum potential and tomaximize the impact of your
leadership.
My name is Doug Smith and I amyour host, and today's episode
is brought to you by my friendsat Beratun g Advisors.
We also recorded this episodelive from the new Birgo Realty
Studio.
If you're new to the podcast,welcome.
I'm so glad that you're hereand I hope that you enjoy our
content and become a subscriber.
(00:27):
Just make sure that you hitsubscribe or follow on whatever
app you're listening to thisthrough, and you'll get new
episodes delivered to you everysingle week.
In today's episode, you'll hearmy conversation with William
Vanderbloemen.
If you're unfamiliar withWilliam, let me just tell you a
little bit about him.
William is an entrepreneur,pastor, speaker, author and CEO
and founder of VanderbloemenSearch Group, an executive
search firm serving churches,ministries and faith-based
(00:48):
organizations.
In our conversation, we talkall about his new book called Be
the Unicorn 12 Data-DrivenHabits that Separate the Best
Leaders from the Rest, andyou're going to hear William
share the habits that he'sdiscovered and leaders that are
consistently the best of thebest, after conducting over
30,000 interviews for executivepositions.
You'll also hear him share whyresponsiveness is a quality of
(01:09):
top leaders.
What Bill Clinton did, that youcan do as well.
That made him so likable, andwhat you can do to be a unicorn
and make sure that you arehiring them.
You're going to love this andI'll just tell you this leader
you need to get this book andread it.
It's unbelievable.
But before we dive into theconversation, just a few
announcements.
This episode of the L3Leadership Podcast is sponsored
by Beratung Advisors.
The financial advisors atBaratung Advisors help educate
(01:31):
and empower clients to makeinformed financial decisions.
You can find out how BeratungAdvisors can help you develop a
customized financial plan foryour financial future by
visiting their website atberatungadvisorscom.
That's B-E-R-A-T-U-N-G-Advisors.
com.
Securities and investmentproducts and services offered
through LPL Financial member,FINRA and SIPC.
(01:52):
Beratung Advisors, LPLFinancial and L3 Leadership are
separate entities.
I also want to thank our sponsor, Henne Jewelers.
They're a jeweler owned by myfriend and mentor, John Henne
and my wife Laura and I got ourengagement and wedding rings
through Henne Jewelers and hadan incredible experience.
And not only do they have greatjewelry, but they also invest
in people.
In fact, for every couple thatcomes in engaged, they give them
a book to help them prepare formarriage, and we just love that
(02:15):
.
So if you're in need of a goodjeweler, check out HenneJewelers
.
com.
And with all that being said,let's dive right in.
Here's my conversation withWilliam Vanderbloemen.
Well, William, welcome to theL3 Leadership podcast, really
looking forward to theconversation and excited about
everything that you're doing.
William Vanderbloemen (02:32):
Thanks, Doug, I appreciate you having me
on today.
Doug Smith (02:34):
Yeah Well, you wrote a brand new book and it's
called Be the Unicorn 12 datadriven habits that separate the
best leaders from the rest, andI'm certainly going to dive into
that, but before we do, can yougive people a little bit of
context about who you are andwhat you do?
That made you actually writethis book?
William Vanderbloemen (02:49):
Yeah, so I I'm.
A long time ago I was a pastor,okay, went into the business
world I'll give you the shortversion and when I was in the
business world working for avery large oil and gas company,
the CEO set up in here nine anda half years time to get my
(03:10):
successor and they hired thisthing called a search firm which
I'd never heard of.
So back in my days of being apastor, I was a senior pastor
most of the time and I was thesenior pastor at First Press
chain, houston, which is anamazing church, wonderful people
, great city, amazing history.
(03:30):
Sam Houston went to churchthere.
I mean, it's pretty cool.
They took three years to findme.
Wow, I was there six years.
They took three years to findthe next person.
Doug Smith (03:42):
Okay.
William Vanderbloemen (03:43):
And that's all viewed as like just
the way the world is.
And this oil and gas companyhires this search firm, which
I'd never, you know, eventhought about as a company, and
90 days later they had theirnext CEO and I was like, you
know, I wonder if we could buildsomething.
The original question was couldwe build something to help
(04:05):
churches find their pastorsquicker and more thoroughly?
Right, it's since spread.
I mean, that was 15, 16 yearsago, and now we, you know faith
based schools, faith basednonprofits, rescue missions and
even faith based for profits,like the Chick-fil-A's of the
world or the Dave Ramsey's hireus.
(04:26):
So it's pretty much anybody whois in a Christian based
organization that needs toptalent, and we've been
privileged to complete over 3000searches for those folks.
Wow, it has led to countlessphone interviews, zoom
interviews.
It's also led to face to faceinterviews with finalists for a
(04:52):
job, and we've now done 30,000of those.
So, yeah.
So then this thing happenedcalled the pandemic.
I can't yeah, I can't imaginewhat it's like running a rescue
mission during a pandemic, butit was a journey.
Yeah Well, nearly every one ofour clients were shut down
indefinitely for the pandemicright, which frees up your
(05:16):
calendar, I guess, is a positiveway of saying it but had to
figure out our business in themiddle of that.
And while we were in thelockdown and had some spare time
, we started studying those30,000 interviews.
We said do they have anythingin common?
And this was just going to belike a really selfish study.
(05:40):
Because because I wanted toanswer this question how can we
learn to spot true talentquicker?
If I can do that, then I do abetter job for our clients.
Churches find their pastorquicker.
Everything goes better, right.
So how can I just identify?
You've probably met some ofthese people.
They're within five minutes.
You're like winner.
(06:01):
Yeah, I can tell, and itdoesn't happen very often.
But could you find a systematicway to identify those people
that make us a better search forthem?
So we studied these 30,000, dothese people have anything in
common?
And the answer was very, veryclear.
The answer was yes, and it wasnot at all what I thought it'd
(06:21):
be.
And it moved us from selfishresearch project to book.
I thought, doug, that it'd belike well, they're all six feet
tall, you know.
I mean wait, hey, you want togo?
Biblical Saul was head andshoulders above the rest of the
body.
I mean literally was taller,like maybe it's that, maybe it's
(06:44):
they're good looking and youknow, maybe it's, maybe it's as
simple as he was the quarterback, she was the head cheerleader.
Like what do they have incommon?
And the research didn't show meany of that, because those are
all things you're kind of bornwith or born into.
What we found was they were 12habits that the best of the best
(07:08):
we call them the unicorns allseem to share, and their habits
that the way they behave, nothow they look, not what
education they receive, not whatlevel of money, certainly not
ethnicity or gender.
12 habits that really centeredaround how well they treated
other human beings, andintentionally.
(07:28):
And so you uncover this stuffand I forget who it is.
I've got a philosophy minor,which is not super helpful as a
businessman, but I remember Ithink it was Aristotle that said
the greatest part ofinstruction is being reminded of
the things you already know.
So these 12 habits like youread the 12 habits on a table of
(07:55):
contents and you know, youprobably look at me and say, duh
, william, I could have donethat list.
That's simple.
You know I kid people.
We had to kind of cajole thepublisher into putting unicorn
in the title because they didn'tlike that word for a while.
They like it now, but thealternate title was just huh.
(08:15):
I guess mom was right, becausethe list is like lessons that
you know my mother tried todrill into me.
And you know, I guess it wouldbe a simplistic book if it were
Williams musings on his opinionsabout what makes top people top
people.
But that's not what this is.
(08:36):
This is 30,000 data points oftop performers and they all seem
to gravitate toward these 12habits, and they're simple
habits that nearly everyone elsedoes not practice.
And so it's now.
We've got a roadmap.
So when we, when we uncoveredthis, these 12 habits, it's like
(08:58):
these aren't traits, thesearen't, they're habits, that
things people choose to do.
And when we realized thesearen't just now, it's not just I
can identify that you're greattalent.
I can actually teach you tobecome great talent If you will
follow this roadmap.
And that's when we're like,okay, that was cute to think
(09:22):
it'd help us be a better searchfor him, but now we got a
roadmap that could help a lot ofpeople learn how to stand out,
whether they're working at arescue mission, whether they're
a high school senior applying tocollege, whether they're trying
to hire people for their ownteam.
So we kind of stumbled across apretty cool learning that we
wanted to share with a lot ofpeople.
Doug Smith (09:43):
And I love that this is data driven and I love how
you said you know it was nothinglike you thought it would be
and why I think this isimportant for leaders.
You know you mentionedsometimes we just meet people
and it's like yep, they got it,they're like I know it.
But other times it's easy forus to overlook someone because
they may not look like what wethink as a unicorn.
And in researching you, youactually share a funny story
(10:05):
with Chris Hodges, who pastorsone of the largest churches in
America.
Can you share that story andhow insightful that can be for
leaders?
So we don't overlook theunicorns as well.
William Vanderbloemen (10:13):
Yeah, yeah, I'm supposed to be the
expert on spotting talent and I,you know I well a long time ago
, there it is I was at afundraiser for leadership
development in the two thirdsworld and as John Maxwell event
and John has been a good friendfor a long time and he said
(10:36):
William, come here, come here, Iwant you to meet my friend.
Okay, and so this is Chris.
He's getting ready to plant achurch in Birmingham.
Now I had pastored inMontgomery, alabama, before
Houston, so I knew a little bitabout Alabama.
And I looked at him and he, youknow, very unassuming, humble
looking guy, not six feet tall,you know, not all those things
(11:01):
that you would think would bewhat make the best the best.
And I just said to him Chris,that's great man, you're going
to plant in Alabama.
He said yeah.
I said, have you ever lived inAlabama?
He said Nope.
I said, have you got it?
You know like family in Alabama?
Nope.
And you have any friends at allin Alabama?
(11:23):
He said Nope, not one.
And just smiled at me and Ijust looked at him and said,
well, good luck, buddy.
And yeah, that's how smartWilliam is.
Doug Smith (11:37):
But, but I think it's beautiful.
I mean, that's what, ultimatelywhy this book is so important,
because I think you know I couldspeak for myself and I'm sure
I'm speaking for everyonelistening as leaders, we've all
done that.
We've all interviewed someonewho we thought this person is in
it, and then we see them go toanother organization and they
thrive and excel and it's like,ah, I missed them.
So frustrating and so my morecommon miss.
William Vanderbloemen (11:59):
I'm hopelessly extroverted.
So, when I meet someone that Ireally enjoy talking to, like
there's a, there's an energy orsomething, I used to mistake
that as a sign that I shouldhire them.
And that's not.
That's not what spotting aunicorn is.
It's not.
Do I like her right now?
Like ability is one of the 12habits.
(12:20):
How do I get people to like meand how do I do things for
others?
But it's not the be all, endall, and I think my more common
miss is hiring somebody that Igenuinely like be and then
finding out that they're no goodat the job.
Yeah, it's so good.
Doug Smith (12:39):
Yeah, so people leaders need to read this book.
I wasn't going to cover it, butyou mentioned like ability and
I would love to cover all 12,but obviously we don't have time
.
I would love for you to shareabout why like ability so
important and I heard you sharea life hack as I was researching
you about Bill Clinton,specifically about looking
people in the eye, theimportance of that.
Can you talk about like abilityand why that's such a critical
(13:00):
factor in being a unicorn?
William Vanderbloemen (13:01):
Yeah, well, you know, like ability a
lot.
These are these 12 habits aredistilled.
They're also deeply intertwined.
Okay, so so it.
Authenticity is one of thehabits.
The authentic, the likable andthe authentic really go together
.
I you know.
I think the more authentic youare, the more likable you become
(13:23):
, and that means you don't haveto be perfect, you just have to
be you, right.
But the real secret tolikability that I mean I would
there's just some people I pullfor and I don't know why I pull
for him.
I get some ways.
Like ability is such aninteresting thing.
You watch a you know a bad TVprogram where you end up pulling
for a criminal because they'vesomehow made the thing like, why
(13:46):
am I pulling for the bad guy?
Because they're just so darnlikable.
But you know, as one who hasnever been called oh William is
just so likable.
I've been fascinated with how Ican do better at this and one
lesson I learned is peoplereally like being seen and
(14:07):
recognized and noticed.
I mean you see it in a rescuemission all the time.
You know, homeless people feelunseen.
No one will look them in theeye.
They love it when peopleactually you don't have to hand
out money, but people love, justrecognize me, Okay.
So I learned this early on froma lot of leaders.
(14:27):
The leaders that I got to bearound and the places I served
had a whole lot of leaders, thebest leaders I knew.
I could not get them to talkabout themselves.
Wow, they were alwaysdeflecting the conversation back
to me.
I had this happen with PresidentClinton.
(14:49):
We ended up doing a funeraltogether and there was a big
rainstorm.
So instead of having timeoutdoors with all his friends
from Washington, he ended upholed up in my office with me
for a few hours.
It was weird, wow, but what alesson.
I mean.
He said Doug.
He said to me I'm trying totalk to him about him, get him
(15:10):
to talk about himself, and youassume politicians are a little
egotistical.
Nope, he didn't want to do that.
So I'm trying to talk to himabout him.
And he looks over on my deskand he sees a brochure where I'm
leading a trip in Greecethrough the footsteps of Paul
and the early church and all, oh, you're going over there.
Yeah, yes, sir.
Mr President, well, you oughtto look up my friend.
(15:32):
I don't even remember the title.
What basically is the Pope ofthe Eastern Orthodox Church,
like the patriarch or whateverthe thing is.
I'm like, well, and this was2006.
So think about your technologyin 2006.
I said, well, mr President, Iwill just get on one of those
search engines and look up hisphone number and I'll call him.
(15:54):
He said, no, no, no, I'll takecare of it.
And then, so I'm trying to.
Ok, now we're talking about you.
You got a yarn bracelet on.
Where'd that come from?
That's kind of interesting.
Oh, it's these children inBolivia that we are, you know, I
met and they make them and theysell them to try and build an
economic platform, kind of thing.
And I said, that's fascinating,we do some mission work down
(16:17):
near there.
He said, well, you need to knowthe ambassador to Bolivia.
I'm like, well, I'll just geton one of those search engines
and I'll just look.
And he said, no, no, no, takeit.
And this went on and on and on,and not even a week after the
funeral I got a.
He sent me a copy of hisautobiography inscribed to me
with a lovely note about thefuneral.
And then, of course, the callcame from whatever the dude's
(16:40):
title is, in Greece, you know.
And the ambassador, like hetotally followed through.
He was interested in me, he sawme and he then followed through
when he didn't have to.
And like we don't vote the sameway on a lot of things, but man
, I get it, I totally understandwhy he won.
(17:03):
And the other thing that I'venoticed and this is me, but I
noticed it from him, I noticedit from a lot of other leaders
that you talked to they lookedme in the eye.
It kind of back to thehomelessness issue, like I've
just heard you.
You tell him wrong, but likethat's a big deal right, people
don't know.
(17:25):
Here's a life hack for you.
If you want to be more likable,okay, look people directly in
one eye.
You can't look two places atonce and if you stare at
somebody here they're not, theydon't feel seen at all.
Here's a fact, human,biological fact 90% of all
(17:45):
humans are right eye dominant.
Wow, so that's a pretty safebet 90% chance you're right.
Look them dead in their righteye.
Nowhere else, not the left eye.
You're dominant eyes.
Where you see things.
You're non-dominant is whereperipheral comes in.
So look them dead in theirright eye.
I promise you, if you do that,you'll be more likable, because
(18:08):
people really want to be seen.
Doug Smith (18:10):
Yeah.
So this is so powerful and Iwant to talk about another one
of the habits.
You talked about Bill Clinton'sability to follow up and he
responded to you, to yourconversation.
The other one that it seemslike it's resonating or at least
challenging leaders the most,is fast and this idea of
responsiveness and I know for me, I mean that that challenged me
(18:31):
the most out of the 12 habits,and you know I've been in
fundraising for forever Can youtalk a little bit about fast and
why this is such a criticalhabit for for leaders?
William Vanderbloemen (18:40):
Yeah, Well, so so it's the first habit
in the book, maybe because it'smy favorite, maybe because it's
the easiest one to pick up.
It does not require a lot ofstudying, it doesn't require
talent, it doesn't it?
Just get back to people quicklywith an intentional human
response, not an AI chatbotresponse, not the five or six
(19:05):
options you get on your iPhonelock screen when you don't want
to answer the phone.
Sorry, I can't talk right now.
No, not that.
Get back to people quickly withan intentional human response
and you will stand out in thecrowd.
That does not happen anymoreand I can.
I can go through.
Well, fundraising.
(19:25):
I was just reading some researchon fundraising right For
pastors at churches.
This was a study.
How do you convert a first timedonor into a regular donor,
right?
This is the question.
Okay, this study that I wasreading showed that the single,
most single, most effectivething you can do as the pastor
to convert a first time donorinto a long time donor is to
(19:49):
text to them on the day of theirvery first gift.
Wow, hey, doug, I saw you werein church today.
I saw you made a gift to us.
Our record show.
It's the first time you've madea gift to us.
I just want to thank you forbelieving in us and trusting us
and all done.
Regular donor and people don'tdo that.
(20:12):
They don't get back to people.
I mean people who are on datingwebsites take forever to get
back to prospects and that'slike you're lonely, you're on
the website.
You should be getting back topeople.
So I think you know,particularly if it can be an
intentional response, this isgoing to be gold because up
(20:34):
until now we've not had autoresponses.
Now the auto responses we'regetting are all written by AI.
They're not, they're not humanat all.
So if you just drop back just alittle bit and Say you know,
I'm glad Tomlin, stay in oneextra year, that's good, you
know, for a stealer.
Doug Smith (20:53):
Yeah, huge Tomlin fan.
William Vanderbloemen (20:55):
Yeah.
So I Just think, in the middleof all the AI noise that's about
to happen and in the middle ofa reality where people really
don't get back to one anotherquickly, this is the easiest
habit to pick up and and changethe way you are.
Make an impression in a crowd.
Doug Smith (21:14):
Yeah, and I'll be a little bit vulnerable here,
because my understanding isyou're maniacal about this
personally.
You and, and you're good at it.
I'm curious.
I guess I'll throw a few thingsout there and just see what
sticks for you to respond to.
But one you know you work withexecutives.
I'm assuming a lot of them haveexecutive assistants Do their
email.
What is it?
What's your thought on havingthem respond versus that?
(21:34):
And and just how do you keep upas a leader With that?
You know leaders are meetingsall the time.
You know, for me, I've fouryoung kids under seven.
I get bombarded and email andtext and social and I my heart.
I'm a people person like I loverelationships, I want to stay
up to date with everyone, but itis so hard for me to keep up
with the demand.
And and I look at leaders, Iknow leaders like yourself and I
(21:57):
see them respond in seconds.
I'm just like how.
I don't know if you have anyadvice for people like me.
I want to get better at this,but I'd love to hear it.
William Vanderbloemen (22:04):
I'm learning as I go and I think
it's when I was first thinkingabout doing search.
I had a guy from a Big, bigfirm, biggest search firm in the
world cornfury, tell me Ishould try it out and he's just
the best in the world at energy.
He can't find CEOs for energycompanies like he's the guy.
(22:25):
And I'm like Bruce, how in theworld do you know if I'm gonna
be any good at this?
I just heard about thisindustry and he said now, this
is 2008, so the iPhone was notyet born.
Okay, so keep that locked.
There was a time, long time ago,when there were no iPhones and
(22:48):
this this was then.
I said Bruce, how do you knowIf I'll be any good?
He said, okay, so let's imaginethat you save up your money and
you get to take your daughteron a one-on-one ski trip a
lifetime memory.
You're on the ski lift with her, talking to her and your phone
rings.
What do you do?
Hmm, and I said, well, itdepends on who it is.
(23:11):
And he said you're gonna befine.
Wow, I said why?
He said, first of all, you hadyour phone.
There was a time when youdidn't.
Doug Smith (23:24):
That's funny, yeah, you know.
William Vanderbloemen (23:26):
Secondly, you took the time to see who it
was and make your decisionbased on that.
It may take you a while tofine-tune it, but just yeah, and
that's a pretty good lens tothrow things through when people
reach out to you.
Imagine yourself on that skilift for the daughter.
Would you respond or not?
Hmm, and sometimes you have to.
I remember as a we were justgetting going and I was like the
(23:49):
sales, the.
I was like I'm gonna go get adrink and I'm gonna go get some
Cook, the bottle, washer, thewhole, all the things, and we'd
saved up all our points and tookthe kids to Disney and we're
like getting on the Dumbo rideafter waiting forever.
And an email came in from areally important Now client that
(24:13):
wasn't a client at the time andI'm answering it and Adrian
looked at me and said what inthe world?
Responding to these kind ofemails is what allowed us to
afford to get onto the Dumboride.
So it's just, it's discernment,and I don't get it right all
the time and and I will say I ampretty maniacal about it, but
I've learned that you have toput up Particularly with the
(24:36):
people you work with Someguardrails so you don't have
people that are walking oneggshells thinking they have to
respond every minute and every.
So we have a very clear Protocolat the office.
You know, if you, if you emailme after hours, I'm supposed to
get back to you in 24 hours,whenever I'm doing email,
(24:57):
whatever that means.
If you, if you slack me afterhours on a, you know, slacks of
platform for, yeah, I'm justmessaging that tells me this is,
this is time, so I need to getback to you today as soon as I
have a chance.
So if I'm bathing a kid, it canwait till after that, but you
know we're sitting down todinner.
(25:18):
If you text me after hours, Ineed to respond right then.
Wow, if you call me after hours,it does not matter why I'm
picking up, hmm, and we've allhad to learn to respect that.
You know that means when we'reall binge watching.
Whatever show is the show ofthe year, the Ted lasso, or
(25:38):
whatever.
We can't be on a text stringwith each other on Sunday night
because that kind of blows upthe whole.
But but I think that if you canBuild those rails and we've
done it as a company too if it'sa potential new client, someone
is going to get back to thatperson within 60 seconds.
That's just going to happen orwe're not doing our job and and
(25:58):
you can spread that around withpeople.
But I Think, just ask yourselfthat question, doug.
I'm on a ski lift With mydaughter one-on-one time.
Do I need to take this or not?
Doug Smith (26:10):
That's so powerful.
I love that, thankful forwhoever has shared that with you
.
Also, I believe when you guysare actually hiring or looking
to hire someone, you actuallyput them through a
Responsiveness test, so to speak.
Is that correct and can youshare?
William Vanderbloemen (26:23):
that, yeah, if you're coming to work
here, oh, it usually happens,and now I've told you know a
hundred podcasts.
Not much of a secret anymore,but it's.
It's basically I mean, we weParticularly our sales,
marketing and client-facingpeople like we deal with fairly
(26:46):
High stress decisions thatorganizations are making who's
our next exec director?
Who's our next headmaster?
How are we going to clean upthe mess from the train wreck
that just happened?
And we had to fire our leader.
And now I get.
So we're, we are gonna be thatresponsive, and that means when
I'm interviewing you, I need tomake sure you're cool with that,
(27:06):
you know.
So if you, if, doug, if youflew here and you interviewed
for the day for a position withus, the way this would roll is
we'd probably try and send youhome that night, so you're with
all your kids and your wife, atleast in the morning, and Maybe
when you land, maybe you get atext from somebody you don't
(27:28):
know.
Hey, doug, this is Jennifer.
I work in the office atVanderbluen.
I heard you were there today.
I'm out of town today, sorry.
I'd love to catch up with yousometime.
That's all.
That's a part of our interview.
Hmm if you don't respond toJennifer, you've not lost the
(27:48):
job.
It's not like you're gonna blowit.
Just if you respond to herwithin 24 hours, you're well
above average, and there are alot of studies in the book that
will show you that Averageresponse time for nearly
anything is about 42 hours.
So if you're under 24, that'spretty good.
You get back to me the next day.
If, however, you text me, write, text Jennifer, right back, you
(28:11):
say, ah, just landed gettingready to go tuck the kids in,
how about we get some optionsout there tomorrow?
And you've gotten back toJennifer the same day.
Well, that's, that's prettyinteresting.
That's not normal.
And if you happen to text yourback, even in one minute, and
just say, love, houston, I'llget back to you tomorrow, just
(28:36):
anything within a minute, well,now, now you're the same.
You have the same dysfunctionalcraziness that I have, and
that's cool.
So because here's the thingpeople, I've just gotten ripped
to shreds on the internet forthis test because it got picked
up by business insider orsomething Other.
And you know that, man, Ipeople really don't like this.
It's so cruel for you to textpeople on the internet.
It's so cruel for you to textpeople during an interview.
(29:01):
You're texting them and I'm notgonna get a job if I don't
respond to you.
You can just have your job,like okay, fine, but let me ask
you which is more kind to askyou to text me back during the
interview or to hire you into ajob where it's an expectation
and it's not how you roll?
Wow, that's abusive.
Yeah, a good interview showspeople what exactly what it's
(29:22):
like to work in the organization, and so we try and mimic that.
I don't know that.
That speed, that responsivenessis something that a lot of
people pick up later in life.
I think they're either that wayor not.
Now you've got a roadmap, nowyou can become one of those
people.
But yeah, it's, it's.
(29:43):
We've had to find.
We're kind of a strange groupof people and we've had to find
ways to make sure we're nothiring someone that's not the
same kind of crazy we are.
Doug Smith (29:53):
Yeah, but this is so good and so important.
You know it challenged me and Itry to be good at this and
always get better.
I actually have.
You'll probably appreciate thestory.
I have a donor who whobasically showed me he keeps a
spreadsheet of all thenonprofits that he supports and
has all these different columnsand basically he tracks who
responds.
A number one like do yourespond at all?
(30:14):
He tracks how quickly theyresponded.
And again, for him it's not amatter of a race, of who
responded first, etc.
The big thing for him is like,is someone responsive?
And ultimately, if they're not,you know that could put their
they're giving in jeopardy ayear.
It's like hey, you must notreally care that I give and you
know I share that with our teamconstantly of like, hey,
everyone of our donors may notactually keep a spreadsheet of
(30:34):
this, but responsive matters.
And so I just want to say thankyou for sharing that and for
challenging all of us to bebetter in that area.
William Vanderbloemen (30:41):
It's so simple, it's just the simplest
thing in the world.
When I was 20.
How was I 27?
Senior pastor of church inMontgomery?
They'd called me and they weremoving the church in a new
location.
So they bought land but wedidn't have a building and we
were going to be homelessbecause we'd outgrown the little
temporary facility we had.
(31:01):
So I'm riding around in the cargoing to lunch with a guy who
used to be at the church, gotfrustrated with the way the
church you know politics andthat sort of thing had left and
I kind of tried to lure him backbecause he was stellar leader
and great human being and hetook me out driving to go look
for spots where we might, youknow, be able to meet on the
(31:21):
weekend.
And there's a YMCA just acrossthe road from our new property,
about 300 yards down.
He said you know that YMCA isclosed on Sundays.
I said really.
He said yeah, said I know theboard chair.
I could give you his phonenumber, you could call him.
I bet he'd let us meet thereand then we'd be kind of like
right across the street, likecool.
So we get back to the officeand we're going to sit down to
(31:43):
visit a little bit.
He gave me the guy's number andthen we made chit chat and he
just looked at me and he saidwhy haven't you called him yet?
And I'm like well, todd, we'resitting here having a
conversation Now right.
Let me tell you one of the bestlessons I learned early in my
(32:04):
business career the first chanceyou have to take care of
something is usually going to bethe best chance.
Wow, come on.
So we called him and we got thefacility and I drilled it in me
.
You get back to people.
It makes you different.
Doug Smith (32:25):
Yeah, I am curious.
Just you've done 30,000interviews, placed 3000 leaders.
Someone may be listening to usand thinking maybe they are a
unicorn.
Where do you see people blowwhen they're they're seeking out
executive positions?
Because I'm sure there's peoplewho who aren't qualified or do
have what it takes.
But what advice do you have inthe whole interviewing process
(32:45):
to really stand out out of allthe other applicants?
That could be great.
William Vanderbloemen (32:49):
Well, I'd focus on these 12 habits
because it's going to give youlike the roadmap.
If you just do these thingswhen you're interfacing with
people, interviewing with, it'sgoing to feel very different to
them.
It's going to feel like, oh,wow, this one's a winner and
it's going to be backed up.
So you know, my advice would bestudy these habits Now.
(33:12):
Second piece of advice bonuscontent Make sure you do some
homework on the company.
Make sure you do some homeworkon yourself and then show in
that interview.
First thing here's a line.
This line, this line's worththe whole podcast right here.
If you're in an interview, makesure you say this sentence I am
(33:32):
so excited at the chance tointerview for this job today.
Doug Smith (33:36):
Come on, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
William Vanderbloemen (33:41):
People don't say that it's crazy.
Yeah, and a lot of theworkforce right now is Gen Z and
millennials, and I'm a huge fanand believer.
But one of the big criticismsis they're apathetic.
No, no, we have it.
I'm so excited to get tointerview for this job today.
Now, if you could back it up,here's here it is.
Watch this.
Let me tell you why I'm excited.
(34:03):
You're interviewing me for amarketing position in your new
software company that's workingwith AI, and I think that's
pretty amazing.
Why do I think it's amazing?
Not just because AI is cool,because I work best in these
kind of environments.
See, you're in a frontier noone's ever been in before and no
one really knows what they'redoing yet.
So you're having to build it asyou go and have to face new
(34:24):
challenges and learn on the job,and probably everybody in your
company probably has this linein their job description that
says other duties as necessary.
Doug Smith (34:32):
You know what.
William Vanderbloemen (34:33):
I've learned about myself.
I flourish in thoseenvironments.
First job I had out of college,I had to build an email list.
We didn't even know what anemail list was.
We had to go find.
We started with constantcontact and we went to Emma and
then we started leveragingsocial media.
All of a sudden, we have100,000 people on our email list
and a click through rate thatsome believe, and we didn't know
how to do that.
We just went and figured it outand I thrived in that.
(34:55):
And needless to, three morethings that you actually have
done that show the type ofpersonality that's needed at
that particular company.
Now you've shown, oh my gosh,there he studied me and he's
interested in me and he's donework that would tell me that he
(35:15):
might be able to do that.
Wow.
And Cherry on top.
Sorry, I'm going to share onelast one Come on.
Come on One more little thing.
You just say and here's thething, doug, if this were for a
bookkeeper job, I you would notwant to hire me.
I'm so bad at doing the samething every day, I don't get
(35:39):
energy from it.
I'll do it if I have to, butlet me just tell you that is not
where I have flourished.
So, new challenges, new partI'm a seven on the integrem.
I love a new thing, but sameroutine every single day.
There are a lot of really smartpeople that are good at that.
I'm not one of them.
Now, you're authentic, you'reself aware, you're interested in
(36:02):
them, you've done your homework, it's just yeah, there you go,
oh it's what I mean and peopleneed to read the book, but
basically what you've done thelast three minutes is basically.
Doug Smith (36:10):
I think you covered like six of the habits right.
And just the way that youcommunicated, you anticipated,
show that you're a problemsolver, you're self aware.
I don't know if that was youscripted or not, but well done.
Thanks, thanks, I'm not surethat's that but I'm not sure
that's that, I guess the lastone I would just throw out there
.
As far as interviewing two, youknow one of the habits is
(36:32):
connected and you know I'mcurious what your thoughts are
on connected.
I'm also curious your thoughtson how important is someone's
platform when it comes to givingexecutive leadership roles
today.
William Vanderbloemen (36:42):
Well, I think that depends on what
industry.
I think that depends on whatthe job is Like consumer goods.
Right now there's 16 year oldson TikTok that are more
influential than the best adagency on Madison Avenue.
(37:04):
True Cause, that's consumergoods and it should.
I go buy those pair of shoes orthe you know the Stanley cup, I
mean.
Is there a better example ofthat was my granddad's lunchbox
company, you know like it was soyou know, there are some where
(37:25):
the platform matters.
Here's what I'm realizing,though the very best leaders
don't really lean on that.
It's what happens in the room,and it might be that they also
have a social media platform.
But I think you got to.
You got to ask yourself as funand attractive as it might seem
to have somebody who's got aYouTube channel with two
bajillion views, is it going tohelp them do the job and what
(37:49):
are they like in the room?
So you know, it might help youget in the door, but not by much
.
Yeah, the flip side to that,doug, is I've got some leaders
who refuse to do social media,refuse to do platforms, and
while I might not get superimpressed because I'm not seeing
them, while I'm doom scrolling,I also never see anything that
(38:11):
they've posted that they wishthey hadn't.
Doug Smith (38:14):
Hmm, oh, come on.
William Vanderbloemen (38:16):
People with the biggest platforms often
have a pretty significantnumber of things they'd like
removed from their digitalfootprint.
Doug Smith (38:23):
Yeah, it's crazy what people leave on there, wild
.
Yes, well, william,unfortunately we're running out
of time and so thank you so much, and if you're listening to
this, you know, please go on bya copy of the book.
We'll include a link in theshow notes and all those things,
but as we wrap up, I'll justleave this really open ended.
Any other advice you want toleave leaders with today?
William Vanderbloemen (38:41):
I think it's pretty easy to get
discouraged out there.
I'm not going to get noticed.
There's so many people youngerthan me in the workforce.
They're you know I'm old andirrelevant.
Or there's so many older peopleand I can't seem to break
through, or it's just hard, tohard to feel like you're noticed
or you stand out.
(39:01):
That's always been the case,but it's even more right now.
There are five generations inthe workforce right now sharing
the same space First time's everhappened, and that means it's
crowded.
And then you throw the noise ofsocial media out there.
You throw a sixth generationthat we're working with.
You know, gen X, gen Y, gen ZGen.
(39:23):
Ai is going to change theworkforce.
Skills are going to get lessimportant.
Human, human skills are goingto get more important.
So if you're feeling a littlebit like like it's crowded and
you can't stand out, this couldbe the way for you to say now I
know I'm going to stand out andbe irreplaceable at work.
Doug Smith (39:47):
Well, thank you so much for all of the nuggets
today.
So, good.
And again game changing bookleader.
Go out and get it and hopefullywe can do this again sometime.
William Vanderbloemen (39:54):
Doug, thanks so much for having me and
thanks for what you're doing.
Appreciate you and joy to bewith you.
Thanks so much.
Doug Smith (40:01):
Well, leader, thank you so much for listening to my
conversation with William.
I hope that you enjoyed it asmuch as I did.
You can find ways to connectwith him and links to everything
that we discussed in the shownotes at L3leadershiporg.
And as always, leader, I liketo end every episode of the
quote, and I'll quote Aristotle,who said this the greater part
of instruction is to be remindedof the things that you already
know so good.
(40:21):
Well, leader, know that my wifeLauren, I love you, we believe
in you and I say it everyepisode.
But don't quit, keep bleeding.
The world desperately needsyour leadership.
We'll talk to you next episode.
Welcome to another episode of the L3 Leadership
Podcast, where we are obsessedwith helping you grow to your
maximum potential and tomaximize the impact of your
leadership.
My name is Doug Smith and I amyour host, and today's episode
is brought to you by my friendsat Beratun g Advisors.
We also recorded this episodelive from the new Birgo Realty
Studio.
If you're new to the podcast,welcome.
I'm so glad that you're hereand I hope that you enjoy our
content and become a subscriber.
(00:27):
Just make sure that you hitsubscribe or follow on whatever
app you're listening to thisthrough, and you'll get new
episodes delivered to you everysingle week.
In today's episode, you'll hearmy conversation with William
Vanderbloemen.
If you're unfamiliar withWilliam, let me just tell you a
little bit about him.
William is an entrepreneur,pastor, speaker, author and CEO
and founder of VanderbloemenSearch Group, an executive
search firm serving churches,ministries and faith-based
(00:48):
organizations.
In our conversation, we talkall about his new book called Be
the Unicorn 12 Data-DrivenHabits that Separate the Best
Leaders from the Rest, andyou're going to hear William
share the habits that he'sdiscovered and leaders that are
consistently the best of thebest, after conducting over
30,000 interviews for executivepositions.
You'll also hear him share whyresponsiveness is a quality of
(01:09):
top leaders.
What Bill Clinton did, that youcan do as well.
That made him so likable, andwhat you can do to be a unicorn
and make sure that you arehiring them.
You're going to love this andI'll just tell you this leader
you need to get this book andread it.
It's unbelievable.
But before we dive into theconversation, just a few
announcements.
This episode of the L3Leadership Podcast is sponsored
by Beratung Advisors.
The financial advisors atBaratung Advisors help educate
(01:31):
and empower clients to makeinformed financial decisions.
You can find out how BeratungAdvisors can help you develop a
customized financial plan foryour financial future by
visiting their website atberatungadvisorscom.
That's B-E-R-A-T-U-N-G-Advisors.
com.
Securities and investmentproducts and services offered
through LPL Financial member,FINRA and SIPC.
(01:52):
Beratung Advisors, LPLFinancial and L3 Leadership are
separate entities.
I also want to thank our sponsor, Henne Jewelers.
They're a jeweler owned by myfriend and mentor, John Henne
and my wife Laura and I got ourengagement and wedding rings
through Henne Jewelers and hadan incredible experience.
And not only do they have greatjewelry, but they also invest
in people.
In fact, for every couple thatcomes in engaged, they give them
a book to help them prepare formarriage, and we just love that
(02:15):
.
So if you're in need of a goodjeweler, check out HenneJewelers
.
com.
And with all that being said,let's dive right in.
Here's my conversation withWilliam Vanderbloemen.
Well, William, welcome to theL3 Leadership podcast, really
looking forward to theconversation and excited about
everything that you're doing.
William Vanderbloemen (02:32):
Thanks, Doug, I appreciate you having me
on today.
Doug Smith (02:34):
Yeah Well, you wrote a brand new book and it's
called Be the Unicorn 12 datadriven habits that separate the
best leaders from the rest, andI'm certainly going to dive into
that, but before we do, can yougive people a little bit of
context about who you are andwhat you do?
That made you actually writethis book?
William Vanderbloemen (02:49):
Yeah, so I I'm.
A long time ago I was a pastor,okay, went into the business
world I'll give you the shortversion and when I was in the
business world working for avery large oil and gas company,
the CEO set up in here nine anda half years time to get my
(03:10):
successor and they hired thisthing called a search firm which
I'd never heard of.
So back in my days of being apastor, I was a senior pastor
most of the time and I was thesenior pastor at First Press
chain, houston, which is anamazing church, wonderful people
, great city, amazing history.
(03:30):
Sam Houston went to churchthere.
I mean, it's pretty cool.
They took three years to findme.
Wow, I was there six years.
They took three years to findthe next person.
Doug Smith (03:42):
Okay.
William Vanderbloemen (03:43):
And that's all viewed as like just
the way the world is.
And this oil and gas companyhires this search firm, which
I'd never, you know, eventhought about as a company, and
90 days later they had theirnext CEO and I was like, you
know, I wonder if we could buildsomething.
The original question was couldwe build something to help
(04:05):
churches find their pastorsquicker and more thoroughly?
Right, it's since spread.
I mean, that was 15, 16 yearsago, and now we, you know faith
based schools, faith basednonprofits, rescue missions and
even faith based for profits,like the Chick-fil-A's of the
world or the Dave Ramsey's hireus.
(04:26):
So it's pretty much anybody whois in a Christian based
organization that needs toptalent, and we've been
privileged to complete over 3000searches for those folks.
Wow, it has led to countlessphone interviews, zoom
interviews.
It's also led to face to faceinterviews with finalists for a
(04:52):
job, and we've now done 30,000of those.
So, yeah.
So then this thing happenedcalled the pandemic.
I can't yeah, I can't imaginewhat it's like running a rescue
mission during a pandemic, butit was a journey.
Yeah Well, nearly every one ofour clients were shut down
indefinitely for the pandemicright, which frees up your
(05:16):
calendar, I guess, is a positiveway of saying it but had to
figure out our business in themiddle of that.
And while we were in thelockdown and had some spare time
, we started studying those30,000 interviews.
We said do they have anythingin common?
And this was just going to belike a really selfish study.
(05:40):
Because because I wanted toanswer this question how can we
learn to spot true talentquicker?
If I can do that, then I do abetter job for our clients.
Churches find their pastorquicker.
Everything goes better, right.
So how can I just identify?
You've probably met some ofthese people.
They're within five minutes.
You're like winner.
(06:01):
Yeah, I can tell, and itdoesn't happen very often.
But could you find a systematicway to identify those people
that make us a better search forthem?
So we studied these 30,000, dothese people have anything in
common?
And the answer was very, veryclear.
The answer was yes, and it wasnot at all what I thought it'd
(06:21):
be.
And it moved us from selfishresearch project to book.
I thought, doug, that it'd belike well, they're all six feet
tall, you know.
I mean wait, hey, you want togo?
Biblical Saul was head andshoulders above the rest of the
body.
I mean literally was taller,like maybe it's that, maybe it's
(06:44):
they're good looking and youknow, maybe it's, maybe it's as
simple as he was the quarterback, she was the head cheerleader.
Like what do they have incommon?
And the research didn't show meany of that, because those are
all things you're kind of bornwith or born into.
What we found was they were 12habits that the best of the best
(07:08):
we call them the unicorns allseem to share, and their habits
that the way they behave, nothow they look, not what
education they receive, not whatlevel of money, certainly not
ethnicity or gender.
12 habits that really centeredaround how well they treated
other human beings, andintentionally.
(07:28):
And so you uncover this stuffand I forget who it is.
I've got a philosophy minor,which is not super helpful as a
businessman, but I remember Ithink it was Aristotle that said
the greatest part ofinstruction is being reminded of
the things you already know.
So these 12 habits like youread the 12 habits on a table of
(07:55):
contents and you know, youprobably look at me and say, duh
, william, I could have donethat list.
That's simple.
You know I kid people.
We had to kind of cajole thepublisher into putting unicorn
in the title because they didn'tlike that word for a while.
They like it now, but thealternate title was just huh.
(08:15):
I guess mom was right, becausethe list is like lessons that
you know my mother tried todrill into me.
And you know, I guess it wouldbe a simplistic book if it were
Williams musings on his opinionsabout what makes top people top
people.
But that's not what this is.
(08:36):
This is 30,000 data points oftop performers and they all seem
to gravitate toward these 12habits, and they're simple
habits that nearly everyone elsedoes not practice.
And so it's now.
We've got a roadmap.
So when we, when we uncoveredthis, these 12 habits, it's like
(08:58):
these aren't traits, thesearen't, they're habits, that
things people choose to do.
And when we realized thesearen't just now, it's not just I
can identify that you're greattalent.
I can actually teach you tobecome great talent If you will
follow this roadmap.
And that's when we're like,okay, that was cute to think
(09:22):
it'd help us be a better searchfor him, but now we got a
roadmap that could help a lot ofpeople learn how to stand out,
whether they're working at arescue mission, whether they're
a high school senior applying tocollege, whether they're trying
to hire people for their ownteam.
So we kind of stumbled across apretty cool learning that we
wanted to share with a lot ofpeople.
Doug Smith (09:43):
And I love that this is data driven and I love how
you said you know it was nothinglike you thought it would be
and why I think this isimportant for leaders.
You know you mentionedsometimes we just meet people
and it's like yep, they got it,they're like I know it.
But other times it's easy forus to overlook someone because
they may not look like what wethink as a unicorn.
And in researching you, youactually share a funny story
(10:05):
with Chris Hodges, who pastorsone of the largest churches in
America.
Can you share that story andhow insightful that can be for
leaders?
So we don't overlook theunicorns as well.
William Vanderbloemen (10:13):
Yeah, yeah, I'm supposed to be the
expert on spotting talent and I,you know I well a long time ago
, there it is I was at afundraiser for leadership
development in the two thirdsworld and as John Maxwell event
and John has been a good friendfor a long time and he said
(10:36):
William, come here, come here, Iwant you to meet my friend.
Okay, and so this is Chris.
He's getting ready to plant achurch in Birmingham.
Now I had pastored inMontgomery, alabama, before
Houston, so I knew a little bitabout Alabama.
And I looked at him and he, youknow, very unassuming, humble
looking guy, not six feet tall,you know, not all those things
(11:01):
that you would think would bewhat make the best the best.
And I just said to him Chris,that's great man, you're going
to plant in Alabama.
He said yeah.
I said, have you ever lived inAlabama?
He said Nope.
I said, have you got it?
You know like family in Alabama?
Nope.
And you have any friends at allin Alabama?
(11:23):
He said Nope, not one.
And just smiled at me and Ijust looked at him and said,
well, good luck, buddy.
And yeah, that's how smartWilliam is.
Doug Smith (11:37):
But, but I think it's beautiful.
I mean, that's what, ultimatelywhy this book is so important,
because I think you know I couldspeak for myself and I'm sure
I'm speaking for everyonelistening as leaders, we've all
done that.
We've all interviewed someonewho we thought this person is in
it, and then we see them go toanother organization and they
thrive and excel and it's like,ah, I missed them.
So frustrating and so my morecommon miss.
William Vanderbloemen (11:59):
I'm hopelessly extroverted.
So, when I meet someone that Ireally enjoy talking to, like
there's a, there's an energy orsomething, I used to mistake
that as a sign that I shouldhire them.
And that's not.
That's not what spotting aunicorn is.
It's not.
Do I like her right now?
Like ability is one of the 12habits.
(12:20):
How do I get people to like meand how do I do things for
others?
But it's not the be all, endall, and I think my more common
miss is hiring somebody that Igenuinely like be and then
finding out that they're no goodat the job.
Yeah, it's so good.
Doug Smith (12:39):
Yeah, so people leaders need to read this book.
I wasn't going to cover it, butyou mentioned like ability and
I would love to cover all 12,but obviously we don't have time
.
I would love for you to shareabout why like ability so
important and I heard you sharea life hack as I was researching
you about Bill Clinton,specifically about looking
people in the eye, theimportance of that.
Can you talk about like abilityand why that's such a critical
(13:00):
factor in being a unicorn?
William Vanderbloemen (13:01):
Yeah, well, you know, like ability a
lot.
These are these 12 habits aredistilled.
They're also deeply intertwined.
Okay, so so it.
Authenticity is one of thehabits.
The authentic, the likable andthe authentic really go together
.
I you know.
I think the more authentic youare, the more likable you become
(13:23):
, and that means you don't haveto be perfect, you just have to
be you, right.
But the real secret tolikability that I mean I would
there's just some people I pullfor and I don't know why I pull
for him.
I get some ways.
Like ability is such aninteresting thing.
You watch a you know a bad TVprogram where you end up pulling
for a criminal because they'vesomehow made the thing like, why
(13:46):
am I pulling for the bad guy?
Because they're just so darnlikable.
But you know, as one who hasnever been called oh William is
just so likable.
I've been fascinated with how Ican do better at this and one
lesson I learned is peoplereally like being seen and
(14:07):
recognized and noticed.
I mean you see it in a rescuemission all the time.
You know, homeless people feelunseen.
No one will look them in theeye.
They love it when peopleactually you don't have to hand
out money, but people love, justrecognize me, Okay.
So I learned this early on froma lot of leaders.
(14:27):
The leaders that I got to bearound and the places I served
had a whole lot of leaders, thebest leaders I knew.
I could not get them to talkabout themselves.
Wow, they were alwaysdeflecting the conversation back
to me.
I had this happen with PresidentClinton.
(14:49):
We ended up doing a funeraltogether and there was a big
rainstorm.
So instead of having timeoutdoors with all his friends
from Washington, he ended upholed up in my office with me
for a few hours.
It was weird, wow, but what alesson.
I mean.
He said Doug.
He said to me I'm trying totalk to him about him, get him
(15:10):
to talk about himself, and youassume politicians are a little
egotistical.
Nope, he didn't want to do that.
So I'm trying to talk to himabout him.
And he looks over on my deskand he sees a brochure where I'm
leading a trip in Greecethrough the footsteps of Paul
and the early church and all, oh, you're going over there.
Yeah, yes, sir.
Mr President, well, you oughtto look up my friend.
(15:32):
I don't even remember the title.
What basically is the Pope ofthe Eastern Orthodox Church,
like the patriarch or whateverthe thing is.
I'm like, well, and this was2006.
So think about your technologyin 2006.
I said, well, mr President, Iwill just get on one of those
search engines and look up hisphone number and I'll call him.
(15:54):
He said, no, no, no, I'll takecare of it.
And then, so I'm trying to.
Ok, now we're talking about you.
You got a yarn bracelet on.
Where'd that come from?
That's kind of interesting.
Oh, it's these children inBolivia that we are, you know, I
met and they make them and theysell them to try and build an
economic platform, kind of thing.
And I said, that's fascinating,we do some mission work down
(16:17):
near there.
He said, well, you need to knowthe ambassador to Bolivia.
I'm like, well, I'll just geton one of those search engines
and I'll just look.
And he said, no, no, no, takeit.
And this went on and on and on,and not even a week after the
funeral I got a.
He sent me a copy of hisautobiography inscribed to me
with a lovely note about thefuneral.
And then, of course, the callcame from whatever the dude's
(16:40):
title is, in Greece, you know.
And the ambassador, like hetotally followed through.
He was interested in me, he sawme and he then followed through
when he didn't have to.
And like we don't vote the sameway on a lot of things, but man
, I get it, I totally understandwhy he won.
(17:03):
And the other thing that I'venoticed and this is me, but I
noticed it from him, I noticedit from a lot of other leaders
that you talked to they lookedme in the eye.
It kind of back to thehomelessness issue, like I've
just heard you.
You tell him wrong, but likethat's a big deal right, people
don't know.
(17:25):
Here's a life hack for you.
If you want to be more likable,okay, look people directly in
one eye.
You can't look two places atonce and if you stare at
somebody here they're not, theydon't feel seen at all.
Here's a fact, human,biological fact 90% of all
(17:45):
humans are right eye dominant.
Wow, so that's a pretty safebet 90% chance you're right.
Look them dead in their righteye.
Nowhere else, not the left eye.
You're dominant eyes.
Where you see things.
You're non-dominant is whereperipheral comes in.
So look them dead in theirright eye.
I promise you, if you do that,you'll be more likable, because
(18:08):
people really want to be seen.
Doug Smith (18:10):
Yeah.
So this is so powerful and Iwant to talk about another one
of the habits.
You talked about Bill Clinton'sability to follow up and he
responded to you, to yourconversation.
The other one that it seemslike it's resonating or at least
challenging leaders the most,is fast and this idea of
responsiveness and I know for me, I mean that that challenged me
(18:31):
the most out of the 12 habits,and you know I've been in
fundraising for forever Can youtalk a little bit about fast and
why this is such a criticalhabit for for leaders?
William Vanderbloemen (18:40):
Yeah, Well, so so it's the first habit
in the book, maybe because it'smy favorite, maybe because it's
the easiest one to pick up.
It does not require a lot ofstudying, it doesn't require
talent, it doesn't it?
Just get back to people quicklywith an intentional human
response, not an AI chatbotresponse, not the five or six
(19:05):
options you get on your iPhonelock screen when you don't want
to answer the phone.
Sorry, I can't talk right now.
No, not that.
Get back to people quickly withan intentional human response
and you will stand out in thecrowd.
That does not happen anymoreand I can.
I can go through.
Well, fundraising.
(19:25):
I was just reading some researchon fundraising right For
pastors at churches.
This was a study.
How do you convert a first timedonor into a regular donor,
right?
This is the question.
Okay, this study that I wasreading showed that the single,
most single, most effectivething you can do as the pastor
to convert a first time donorinto a long time donor is to
(19:49):
text to them on the day of theirvery first gift.
Wow, hey, doug, I saw you werein church today.
I saw you made a gift to us.
Our record show.
It's the first time you've madea gift to us.
I just want to thank you forbelieving in us and trusting us
and all done.
Regular donor and people don'tdo that.
(20:12):
They don't get back to people.
I mean people who are on datingwebsites take forever to get
back to prospects and that'slike you're lonely, you're on
the website.
You should be getting back topeople.
So I think you know,particularly if it can be an
intentional response, this isgoing to be gold because up
(20:34):
until now we've not had autoresponses.
Now the auto responses we'regetting are all written by AI.
They're not, they're not humanat all.
So if you just drop back just alittle bit and Say you know,
I'm glad Tomlin, stay in oneextra year, that's good, you
know, for a stealer.
Doug Smith (20:53):
Yeah, huge Tomlin fan.
William Vanderbloemen (20:55):
Yeah.
So I Just think, in the middleof all the AI noise that's about
to happen and in the middle ofa reality where people really
don't get back to one anotherquickly, this is the easiest
habit to pick up and and changethe way you are.
Make an impression in a crowd.
Doug Smith (21:14):
Yeah, and I'll be a little bit vulnerable here,
because my understanding isyou're maniacal about this
personally.
You and, and you're good at it.
I'm curious.
I guess I'll throw a few thingsout there and just see what
sticks for you to respond to.
But one you know you work withexecutives.
I'm assuming a lot of them haveexecutive assistants Do their
email.
What is it?
What's your thought on havingthem respond versus that?
(21:34):
And and just how do you keep upas a leader With that?
You know leaders are meetingsall the time.
You know, for me, I've fouryoung kids under seven.
I get bombarded and email andtext and social and I my heart.
I'm a people person like I loverelationships, I want to stay
up to date with everyone, but itis so hard for me to keep up
with the demand.
And and I look at leaders, Iknow leaders like yourself and I
(21:57):
see them respond in seconds.
I'm just like how.
I don't know if you have anyadvice for people like me.
I want to get better at this,but I'd love to hear it.
William Vanderbloemen (22:04):
I'm learning as I go and I think
it's when I was first thinkingabout doing search.
I had a guy from a Big, bigfirm, biggest search firm in the
world cornfury, tell me Ishould try it out and he's just
the best in the world at energy.
He can't find CEOs for energycompanies like he's the guy.
(22:25):
And I'm like Bruce, how in theworld do you know if I'm gonna
be any good at this?
I just heard about thisindustry and he said now, this
is 2008, so the iPhone was notyet born.
Okay, so keep that locked.
There was a time, long time ago,when there were no iPhones and
(22:48):
this this was then.
I said Bruce, how do you knowIf I'll be any good?
He said, okay, so let's imaginethat you save up your money and
you get to take your daughteron a one-on-one ski trip a
lifetime memory.
You're on the ski lift with her, talking to her and your phone
rings.
What do you do?
Hmm, and I said, well, itdepends on who it is.
(23:11):
And he said you're gonna befine.
Wow, I said why?
He said, first of all, you hadyour phone.
There was a time when youdidn't.
Doug Smith (23:24):
That's funny, yeah, you know.
William Vanderbloemen (23:26):
Secondly, you took the time to see who it
was and make your decisionbased on that.
It may take you a while tofine-tune it, but just yeah, and
that's a pretty good lens tothrow things through when people
reach out to you.
Imagine yourself on that skilift for the daughter.
Would you respond or not?
Hmm, and sometimes you have to.
I remember as a we were justgetting going and I was like the
(23:49):
sales, the.
I was like I'm gonna go get adrink and I'm gonna go get some
Cook, the bottle, washer, thewhole, all the things, and we'd
saved up all our points and tookthe kids to Disney and we're
like getting on the Dumbo rideafter waiting forever.
And an email came in from areally important Now client that
(24:13):
wasn't a client at the time andI'm answering it and Adrian
looked at me and said what inthe world?
Responding to these kind ofemails is what allowed us to
afford to get onto the Dumboride.
So it's just, it's discernment,and I don't get it right all
the time and and I will say I ampretty maniacal about it, but
I've learned that you have toput up Particularly with the
(24:36):
people you work with Someguardrails so you don't have
people that are walking oneggshells thinking they have to
respond every minute and every.
So we have a very clear Protocolat the office.
You know, if you, if you emailme after hours, I'm supposed to
get back to you in 24 hours,whenever I'm doing email,
(24:57):
whatever that means.
If you, if you slack me afterhours on a, you know, slacks of
platform for, yeah, I'm justmessaging that tells me this is,
this is time, so I need to getback to you today as soon as I
have a chance.
So if I'm bathing a kid, it canwait till after that, but you
know we're sitting down todinner.
(25:18):
If you text me after hours, Ineed to respond right then.
Wow, if you call me after hours,it does not matter why I'm
picking up, hmm, and we've allhad to learn to respect that.
You know that means when we'reall binge watching.
Whatever show is the show ofthe year, the Ted lasso, or
(25:38):
whatever.
We can't be on a text stringwith each other on Sunday night
because that kind of blows upthe whole.
But but I think that if you canBuild those rails and we've
done it as a company too if it'sa potential new client, someone
is going to get back to thatperson within 60 seconds.
That's just going to happen orwe're not doing our job and and
(25:58):
you can spread that around withpeople.
But I Think, just ask yourselfthat question, doug.
I'm on a ski lift With mydaughter one-on-one time.
Do I need to take this or not?
Doug Smith (26:10):
That's so powerful.
I love that, thankful forwhoever has shared that with you
.
Also, I believe when you guysare actually hiring or looking
to hire someone, you actuallyput them through a
Responsiveness test, so to speak.
Is that correct and can youshare?
William Vanderbloemen (26:23):
that, yeah, if you're coming to work
here, oh, it usually happens,and now I've told you know a
hundred podcasts.
Not much of a secret anymore,but it's.
It's basically I mean, we weParticularly our sales,
marketing and client-facingpeople like we deal with fairly
(26:46):
High stress decisions thatorganizations are making who's
our next exec director?
Who's our next headmaster?
How are we going to clean upthe mess from the train wreck
that just happened?
And we had to fire our leader.
And now I get.
So we're, we are gonna be thatresponsive, and that means when
I'm interviewing you, I need tomake sure you're cool with that,
(27:06):
you know.
So if you, if, doug, if youflew here and you interviewed
for the day for a position withus, the way this would roll is
we'd probably try and send youhome that night, so you're with
all your kids and your wife, atleast in the morning, and Maybe
when you land, maybe you get atext from somebody you don't
(27:28):
know.
Hey, doug, this is Jennifer.
I work in the office atVanderbluen.
I heard you were there today.
I'm out of town today, sorry.
I'd love to catch up with yousometime.
That's all.
That's a part of our interview.
Hmm if you don't respond toJennifer, you've not lost the
(27:48):
job.
It's not like you're gonna blowit.
Just if you respond to herwithin 24 hours, you're well
above average, and there are alot of studies in the book that
will show you that Averageresponse time for nearly
anything is about 42 hours.
So if you're under 24, that'spretty good.
You get back to me the next day.
If, however, you text me, write, text Jennifer, right back, you
(28:11):
say, ah, just landed gettingready to go tuck the kids in,
how about we get some optionsout there tomorrow?
And you've gotten back toJennifer the same day.
Well, that's, that's prettyinteresting.
That's not normal.
And if you happen to text yourback, even in one minute, and
just say, love, houston, I'llget back to you tomorrow, just
(28:36):
anything within a minute, well,now, now you're the same.
You have the same dysfunctionalcraziness that I have, and
that's cool.
So because here's the thingpeople, I've just gotten ripped
to shreds on the internet forthis test because it got picked
up by business insider orsomething Other.
And you know that, man, Ipeople really don't like this.
It's so cruel for you to textpeople on the internet.
It's so cruel for you to textpeople during an interview.
(29:01):
You're texting them and I'm notgonna get a job if I don't
respond to you.
You can just have your job,like okay, fine, but let me ask
you which is more kind to askyou to text me back during the
interview or to hire you into ajob where it's an expectation
and it's not how you roll?
Wow, that's abusive.
Yeah, a good interview showspeople what exactly what it's
(29:22):
like to work in the organization, and so we try and mimic that.
I don't know that.
That speed, that responsivenessis something that a lot of
people pick up later in life.
I think they're either that wayor not.
Now you've got a roadmap, nowyou can become one of those
people.
But yeah, it's, it's.
(29:43):
We've had to find.
We're kind of a strange groupof people and we've had to find
ways to make sure we're nothiring someone that's not the
same kind of crazy we are.
Doug Smith (29:53):
Yeah, but this is so good and so important.
You know it challenged me and Itry to be good at this and
always get better.
I actually have.
You'll probably appreciate thestory.
I have a donor who whobasically showed me he keeps a
spreadsheet of all thenonprofits that he supports and
has all these different columnsand basically he tracks who
responds.
A number one like do yourespond at all?
(30:14):
He tracks how quickly theyresponded.
And again, for him it's not amatter of a race, of who
responded first, etc.
The big thing for him is like,is someone responsive?
And ultimately, if they're not,you know that could put their
they're giving in jeopardy ayear.
It's like hey, you must notreally care that I give and you
know I share that with our teamconstantly of like, hey,
everyone of our donors may notactually keep a spreadsheet of
(30:34):
this, but responsive matters.
And so I just want to say thankyou for sharing that and for
challenging all of us to bebetter in that area.
William Vanderbloemen (30:41):
It's so simple, it's just the simplest
thing in the world.
When I was 20.
How was I 27?
Senior pastor of church inMontgomery?
They'd called me and they weremoving the church in a new
location.
So they bought land but wedidn't have a building and we
were going to be homelessbecause we'd outgrown the little
temporary facility we had.
(31:01):
So I'm riding around in the cargoing to lunch with a guy who
used to be at the church, gotfrustrated with the way the
church you know politics andthat sort of thing had left and
I kind of tried to lure him backbecause he was stellar leader
and great human being and hetook me out driving to go look
for spots where we might, youknow, be able to meet on the
(31:21):
weekend.
And there's a YMCA just acrossthe road from our new property,
about 300 yards down.
He said you know that YMCA isclosed on Sundays.
I said really.
He said yeah, said I know theboard chair.
I could give you his phonenumber, you could call him.
I bet he'd let us meet thereand then we'd be kind of like
right across the street, likecool.
So we get back to the officeand we're going to sit down to
(31:43):
visit a little bit.
He gave me the guy's number andthen we made chit chat and he
just looked at me and he saidwhy haven't you called him yet?
And I'm like well, todd, we'resitting here having a
conversation Now right.
Let me tell you one of the bestlessons I learned early in my
(32:04):
business career the first chanceyou have to take care of
something is usually going to bethe best chance.
Wow, come on.
So we called him and we got thefacility and I drilled it in me
.
You get back to people.
It makes you different.
Doug Smith (32:25):
Yeah, I am curious.
Just you've done 30,000interviews, placed 3000 leaders.
Someone may be listening to usand thinking maybe they are a
unicorn.
Where do you see people blowwhen they're they're seeking out
executive positions?
Because I'm sure there's peoplewho who aren't qualified or do
have what it takes.
But what advice do you have inthe whole interviewing process
(32:45):
to really stand out out of allthe other applicants?
That could be great.
William Vanderbloemen (32:49):
Well, I'd focus on these 12 habits
because it's going to give youlike the roadmap.
If you just do these thingswhen you're interfacing with
people, interviewing with, it'sgoing to feel very different to
them.
It's going to feel like, oh,wow, this one's a winner and
it's going to be backed up.
So you know, my advice would bestudy these habits Now.
(33:12):
Second piece of advice bonuscontent Make sure you do some
homework on the company.
Make sure you do some homeworkon yourself and then show in
that interview.
First thing here's a line.
This line, this line's worththe whole podcast right here.
If you're in an interview, makesure you say this sentence I am
(33:32):
so excited at the chance tointerview for this job today.
Doug Smith (33:36):
Come on, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
William Vanderbloemen (33:41):
People don't say that it's crazy.
Yeah, and a lot of theworkforce right now is Gen Z and
millennials, and I'm a huge fanand believer.
But one of the big criticismsis they're apathetic.
No, no, we have it.
I'm so excited to get tointerview for this job today.
Now, if you could back it up,here's here it is.
Watch this.
Let me tell you why I'm excited.
(34:03):
You're interviewing me for amarketing position in your new
software company that's workingwith AI, and I think that's
pretty amazing.
Why do I think it's amazing?
Not just because AI is cool,because I work best in these
kind of environments.
See, you're in a frontier noone's ever been in before and no
one really knows what they'redoing yet.
So you're having to build it asyou go and have to face new
(34:24):
challenges and learn on the job,and probably everybody in your
company probably has this linein their job description that
says other duties as necessary.
Doug Smith (34:32):
You know what.
William Vanderbloemen (34:33):
I've learned about myself.
I flourish in thoseenvironments.
First job I had out of college,I had to build an email list.
We didn't even know what anemail list was.
We had to go find.
We started with constantcontact and we went to Emma and
then we started leveragingsocial media.
All of a sudden, we have100,000 people on our email list
and a click through rate thatsome believe, and we didn't know
how to do that.
We just went and figured it outand I thrived in that.
(34:55):
And needless to, three morethings that you actually have
done that show the type ofpersonality that's needed at
that particular company.
Now you've shown, oh my gosh,there he studied me and he's
interested in me and he's donework that would tell me that he
(35:15):
might be able to do that.
Wow.
And Cherry on top.
Sorry, I'm going to share onelast one Come on.
Come on One more little thing.
You just say and here's thething, doug, if this were for a
bookkeeper job, I you would notwant to hire me.
I'm so bad at doing the samething every day, I don't get
(35:39):
energy from it.
I'll do it if I have to, butlet me just tell you that is not
where I have flourished.
So, new challenges, new partI'm a seven on the integrem.
I love a new thing, but sameroutine every single day.
There are a lot of really smartpeople that are good at that.
I'm not one of them.
Now, you're authentic, you'reself aware, you're interested in
(36:02):
them, you've done your homework, it's just yeah, there you go,
oh it's what I mean and peopleneed to read the book, but
basically what you've done thelast three minutes is basically.
Doug Smith (36:10):
I think you covered like six of the habits right.
And just the way that youcommunicated, you anticipated,
show that you're a problemsolver, you're self aware.
I don't know if that was youscripted or not, but well done.
Thanks, thanks, I'm not surethat's that but I'm not sure
that's that, I guess the lastone I would just throw out there
.
As far as interviewing two, youknow one of the habits is
(36:32):
connected and you know I'mcurious what your thoughts are
on connected.
I'm also curious your thoughtson how important is someone's
platform when it comes to givingexecutive leadership roles
today.
William Vanderbloemen (36:42):
Well, I think that depends on what
industry.
I think that depends on whatthe job is Like consumer goods.
Right now there's 16 year oldson TikTok that are more
influential than the best adagency on Madison Avenue.
(37:04):
True Cause, that's consumergoods and it should.
I go buy those pair of shoes orthe you know the Stanley cup, I
mean.
Is there a better example ofthat was my granddad's lunchbox
company, you know like it was soyou know, there are some where
(37:25):
the platform matters.
Here's what I'm realizing,though the very best leaders
don't really lean on that.
It's what happens in the room,and it might be that they also
have a social media platform.
But I think you got to.
You got to ask yourself as funand attractive as it might seem
to have somebody who's got aYouTube channel with two
bajillion views, is it going tohelp them do the job and what
(37:49):
are they like in the room?
So you know, it might help youget in the door, but not by much
.
Yeah, the flip side to that,doug, is I've got some leaders
who refuse to do social media,refuse to do platforms, and
while I might not get superimpressed because I'm not seeing
them, while I'm doom scrolling,I also never see anything that
(38:11):
they've posted that they wishthey hadn't.
Doug Smith (38:14):
Hmm, oh, come on.
William Vanderbloemen (38:16):
People with the biggest platforms often
have a pretty significantnumber of things they'd like
removed from their digitalfootprint.
Doug Smith (38:23):
Yeah, it's crazy what people leave on there, wild
.
Yes, well, william,unfortunately we're running out
of time and so thank you so much, and if you're listening to
this, you know, please go on bya copy of the book.
We'll include a link in theshow notes and all those things,
but as we wrap up, I'll justleave this really open ended.
Any other advice you want toleave leaders with today?
William Vanderbloemen (38:41):
I think it's pretty easy to get
discouraged out there.
I'm not going to get noticed.
There's so many people youngerthan me in the workforce.
They're you know I'm old andirrelevant.
Or there's so many older peopleand I can't seem to break
through, or it's just hard, tohard to feel like you're noticed
or you stand out.
(39:01):
That's always been the case,but it's even more right now.
There are five generations inthe workforce right now sharing
the same space First time's everhappened, and that means it's
crowded.
And then you throw the noise ofsocial media out there.
You throw a sixth generationthat we're working with.
You know, gen X, gen Y, gen ZGen.
(39:23):
Ai is going to change theworkforce.
Skills are going to get lessimportant.
Human, human skills are goingto get more important.
So if you're feeling a littlebit like like it's crowded and
you can't stand out, this couldbe the way for you to say now I
know I'm going to stand out andbe irreplaceable at work.
Doug Smith (39:47):
Well, thank you so much for all of the nuggets
today.
So, good.
And again game changing bookleader.
Go out and get it and hopefullywe can do this again sometime.
William Vanderbloemen (39:54):
Doug, thanks so much for having me and
thanks for what you're doing.
Appreciate you and joy to bewith you.
Thanks so much.
Doug Smith (40:01):
Well, leader, thank you so much for listening to my
conversation with William.
I hope that you enjoyed it asmuch as I did.
You can find ways to connectwith him and links to everything
that we discussed in the shownotes at L3leadershiporg.
And as always, leader, I liketo end every episode of the
quote, and I'll quote Aristotle,who said this the greater part
of instruction is to be remindedof the things that you already
know so good.
(40:21):
Well, leader, know that my wifeLauren, I love you, we believe
in you and I say it everyepisode.
But don't quit, keep bleeding.
The world desperately needsyour leadership.
We'll talk to you next episode.
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