March 22, 2024 • 15 mins
Ever wondered what happens when you hire a cow to climb a tree? Join Dan Scungio and Sean Kaufman as we share our tales from the trenches of laboratory safety, revealing how mismatched hiring can throw a wrench in the gears of your lab's success. We're peeling back the layers on the onboarding process, offering you our top strategies to foster a safety culture that thrives. This isn't just about ticking boxes; it's about hands-on experience, team chemistry, and making sure the gears of your lab keep turning smoothly with every new addition.
Then we shift gears to tackle the lifecycle of laboratory staffing, dissecting the importance of clearing out hazards and the intricate dance of onboarding and offboarding. Listen as we illustrate the creation of bulletproof SOPs, hazard analyses, and the crucial steps to take when team members depart. It's a journey through the harrowing and rewarding challenge of building a lab team that not just survives but excels, with each hiring choice potentially steering the ship toward success or disaster. Buckle up for a candid conversation that goes beyond the beakers and safety goggles, into the heart of what makes a lab team truly outstanding.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Lab Safety Guru's Podcast.
I'm Dan Scungio.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
And I'm Sean Coffin, and together we're providing
safety insights for thoseworking in laboratory settings
doing safety together.
Okay, Dan let me ask you aquestion.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Sean, I'm scared when you ask me questions.
No, I'm kidding, go ahead, I'mready?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
I'm ready to climb a tree.
I know the answer is no.
How about a cow?
Speaker 1 (00:35):
To climb a tree?
Speaker 2 (00:36):
No, All right, let me ask you this this is the scary
part.
You ready?
Is it a trick question here,get ready.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
How about?
Would you ever hire a bird toclimb a tree?
A bird can get into the tree,but they're not really climbing
it.
I'm going to go with no on that.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Very good, dan, I can ask you this In the lab, have
you ever seen anybody who's beenhired to climb a tree but they
didn't climb the tree, eventhough it looks like they
climbed a tree, Sadly?
Yes.
And what happens to the moraleof a lab when somebody is hired
to do a job and it doesn't looklike, or it looks like they're
doing the job but they're reallynot.
(01:16):
What happens to the morale ofthe lab?
Speaker 1 (01:18):
It's so bad for the team, it's so bad On so many
different levels.
It's not good.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Now let me ask you one more question, Dan, and for
those out there listening toohow many people have been in an
environment and a workplacewhere they know for a fact the
people that have been hired todo the job should have never
been hired in the first place?
Dan, Both my hands are up.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
But, Sean, what's worse is I have been a lab
manager and I have hired peoplewho shouldn't have been in the
world.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
So wait, wait.
I thought you said you wouldn'thave hired a cow or a dolphin,
but you did, I did.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Dan, oh Dan, oh Dan.
Well, they were disguised.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
They were disguised as a monkey and I didn't know
they were a cow.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
This is, ladies and gentlemen.
This is so important.
This is what this podcast isabout.
Let's talk, dan, a little bitabout onboarding and offboarding
, because I think that we really, when we take a look at risk to
a laboratory and a culture ofsafety, one of the biggest risks
(02:28):
is that we can work so hard todevelop something so special and
, within an instant, hire thewrong person, and bringing in
the wrong person to a team candestroy a culture of safety very
quickly.
Do you have any?
I mean, do you have anyexamples in the years that
you've worked in a lab, dan,where that has happened?
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Yeah, unfortunately, I know a few different stories
where that has happened, whereyou know it's just somebody.
So I work in a large system oflaboratories and something that
I've seen happen is where peopleget sort of shuffled around
from laboratory to laboratory.
They sort of buy their time, dotheir job, but poorly in one
(03:12):
lab and they sort of know whenthey can start getting in
trouble and so they start to getready to transfer to another
lab and the manager wants to getyou know.
They're like good, I'll get ridof them.
They don't say anything to theother manager and they sort of
pass them along.
So if you're a leader in alaboratory and you've hired the
(03:33):
cow to climb the tree, you'regoing to hear it from your staff
.
Hopefully they're vocal enoughthat they're going to tell you
that this cow is not working outor you're going to hear it
where it really hurts and that'sin your results.
Whatever the outcome of yourlaboratory is if it's research,
if it's a health lab, if it's aclinical lab and suddenly
(03:55):
results you're putting outaren't good, that's really bad
for your laboratory and on allkinds of different levels.
So lots of ways that thatperson can really hurt your
laboratory really quickly,absolutely so, dan.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Here's what I'm going to do.
I'm going to play ping ponghere.
I'm going to talk about threethings that I think are critical
for onboarding, and I want you,after I summarize my three
things, you give me your threethings Does that sound good Okay
.
All right.
So here's first one number one.
Number one here we go Neverhire someone until you do an
(04:33):
on-the-job interview, and here'swhat I mean by that.
These are so small that we needto understand the chemistry
between staff, and so I wouldhonestly try to bring an
individual in, and I know it maybe difficult, I know it can be,
but typically you're not hiringsomebody with little to no
experience.
(04:54):
I think it would be a goodthing to have a working
interview to actually bring themin and have them work around
the staff they're going to bearound.
Now, dental offices do this allthe time because they realize
one bad employee can destroy awhole team that's been years
working together.
So I always would suggest thatwhen you're doing an interview,
(05:18):
you have a chance for the teamto not only work with and around
an individual, and sometimeswhat you can do is even
scavenger hunts.
You don't even have to do a inthe lab interview.
You could do all sorts of justgames where they all work
together to play a game.
They're going to get a feel forthe staff members.
So that's number one ononboarding.
The second thing I want toremind you is, if you do hire
(05:41):
someone, please don't make themspend the first week reading and
doing administrative stuff.
That is the worst thing youcould ever do to a human being.
If you're going to do that, letthem do it from home.
Give them all the admin stufffrom home so that the very first
thing they do when they come inis they start doing the job
they've been hired to do,meaning you show them, you ask
(06:04):
them to demonstrate it.
You get them to be the highestlevel of competency through
modeling the behavior you wantthem to do.
Human beings are so excited tostart their job that the worst
thing you can do for the firstcouple weeks of the job is put
them in a bunch of trainingprograms where, by the time they
finally get to do the job,they're exhausted and they're
already withdrawn.
So second thing on onboardingis don't bury them in that.
(06:27):
Let them do that from home andwhen they finally get into the
workplace with their staff thatthey're going to be working with
, unleash them to do thebehaviors that they've been
designed to do.
Now here's my third thing.
Dan, you're still there, right?
You're not sleeping on me.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
I'm here, I'm ready.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
The third thing is I want you to make sure that that
first day of that employee's jobthey don't want to go home.
You make it so memorable, youmake it the best day.
You have every single staffmember spend 15 to 20 minutes
with them, talking about whattheir first day on the job was
like for them.
You have them answer questions,you give them a mentor, you
(07:05):
pass them around, you take themto lunch, but you make their
first day a day that they'llnever forget.
You make sure they feelwelcomed on the first day.
Again, at the end of the day,they should want to come back
the next day and not be worriedabout what the next day is going
to look like.
So, dan, those are my threeonboarding tips.
(07:26):
What are your thoughts?
Speaker 1 (07:30):
I like them especially.
I just want to make a couple ofcomments on those firsts.
In a summer arena, people cando laboratory.
Students can do a clinicalrotation where they're in the
lab for two or three weeks as astudent.
What a great job interview thatis.
You get to know them prettywell.
You get to know whether they'rea cow or a monkey or whatever
(07:51):
it is you're looking for.
It's a great.
It's like a working interview.
It's fantastic.
The second thing you said don'tstart them on board reading and
doing computer-based trainingand things like that.
I was talking to a manager acouple of weeks ago and they
said that they make the personread all 300 policies and
procedures before they get themout on the bench training.
(08:12):
I said you do that really.
The manager said to me if Idon't do it, they'll never read
them after once they get in thelab.
I thought that's a terribleapproach.
I agree with you.
So my top three things foronboarding the first one is kind
of the same as yours Definitelymeet the team, including all
(08:32):
leaders and staff, while you'redoing the interview.
I also think you should providescenarios and talk about
scenarios.
If this happens, what do you do?
Because you want to get a senseof how their mind works and how
they work through those thingsthat could happen in the
laboratory you're trying to hirethem for.
The second thing for onboardingto me is safety orientation.
(08:56):
But I'm not talking, sean,about computer-based training or
policies and procedures.
I'm talking about a packet youuse to go over with the employee
, a packet that they can keepwith safety information.
But it also includes a walkthrough the lab, a safety walk.
Hey, let's go walk ourevacuation route.
Here's your location.
(09:18):
Let's go see the eye washes andsafety showers.
Let's go see where our spillkids are so they're not bored at
the beginning of their job.
They're still excited aboutlearning the laboratory that
they're going to get to work in.
But you're also teaching themsafety first thing.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Do you know what I love, dan?
What are safety items are?
Do you know what I love aboutwhat you just said?
I would pair that with food.
I would call it a safety lunch,or you can even call it a
safety brunch.
Listen, food is a grounder forpeople when they're nervous and
it brings people together, soyou can almost call it a safety
snack.
You can call it a safety brunch.
(09:53):
But if you did that and youtook them for 30 to 40 minutes
and did exactly what you justsaid, but you paired it with
food, and you were able to enjoyyourselves and talk, I love
that idea.
I think that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
I like it, and when you're in a big new building, I
do that too.
If we're going on the safetywalk, I also am doing a building
orientation.
Here's the ATM, in case youever need it.
Here's the cafeteria.
Let's have lunch.
Yeah, that's great.
I love that.
A safety lunch, that's great.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Our safety snack.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Safety snack.
The last one that I had waslike as follow-up basically,
with your new employee.
You need to follow up, assesshow they're doing, talk to them,
ask them, find out what theirlevel of excitement is on day
two, day three, day four, whilethey're new, so that they know
(10:45):
that you're an engaged leader,that you care about them and
that you're making sure thatthey're still happy and excited
to be where they are.
You've got to consistently meetwith that person and even the
team to see how they think theperson is doing.
It's a lot of involvement whenyou bring somebody new on board,
for sure?
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Well, I'll tell you this so you've done such a good
job in onboarding that thereputation has gotten out, dan,
that you never lose any staff.
Because, by the way, that's oneof the side effects for good
onboarding is that you are ableto maintain and retain good
quality staff.
But let's talk about the daywhen somebody decides the leaf.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
You're now off-boarding.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Think about a couple strategies, dan.
I've got three that come to mymind real fast.
The first is no matter whythey're leaving, treat the
person with dignity and respect.
Maintain professionalism, evenif you're upset that they may be
going.
It's going to be a huge loss.
Maintain a level ofprofessionalism.
(11:46):
If you're angry, if they'vemade a mistake, if it's a
termination, always, always,treat the person with respect,
with kindness, with humility,because it could prevent any
actions against you in the nearfuture.
So that's a good thing.
If it's appropriate, if it'sappropriate, always try to
celebrate a goodbye.
(12:07):
Make somebody feel and knowthat they will be missed as part
of the team.
If it is appropriate for thereasons that they may be
off-boarding, make sure youcollect all the property and out
there.
Listen, ladies and gentlemen,if you're a research or public
health laboratory, if you've gotsamples in freezers, transfer
them or get rid of them.
Do not let them sit in freezersso that 20 or 30 years from now
(12:31):
, these diseases are detectedand it makes international news.
So transfer all samples,destroy samples or transfer them
.
Do not let them sit there atall.
And, last but not least, pleasedo an exit interview and make
sure and I'm not just talkingabout an exit interview from the
(12:52):
individual leaving, but exitinterview from the team members
as well.
You want to make sure that youare going to replace what is
leaving the organization, whatis exiting the organization.
You want to understand what thenew deficit is so that when
you're looking to replace thatindividual, you'll have the
ability to do so in a good way.
Dan things that come to you.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Yeah, you pretty much echoed what I was thinking.
Exit interview is first on mylist.
You always want to make sureyou have that conversation.
Unless it's a terminationHopefully it's not that but
about why they may be leaving,what they thought of their time
here, what they think could beimproved in the laboratory, and
definitely celebrate that goesback to food.
If it's a good goodbyesomebody's retiring, somebody's
(13:38):
leaving, transferring definitelymake a celebration of the work
they have done in thatlaboratory.
That's always important.
And when you talk about youknow, collecting property, if
you're in like a researchlaboratory, there may be
chemicals lying around that needto be maybe gotten rid of.
There may be other things.
Like you said, get the stuffout of the freezer, but think
(14:01):
about all of the things a PI maybe working with if they're gone
from the lab.
Don't just let it sit there.
You see that a lot in researchlabs and that can be an old
chemical can be as dangerous asan old biological as well.
So you got to be careful aboutall of that.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Well, thank you, dan, and again, just, you know
inherent risks, these risks thatwe assume every day as
laboratory staff.
You know whether it be chemical, biological, radiological.
These are risks that we writeSOPs for.
These are risks that we seecoming.
These are things that we can dohazard analysis and risk
assessments on.
(14:37):
But one of the things that wereally don't see coming, dan, is
the risks that are associated,these residual risks that are
associated with hiring the rightpeople and with ensuring that,
when people leave, that there isa formal process that ensures
that the person exits in amanner that's going to reduce
(14:58):
and minimize risk to theorganization moving forward as
well.
So, any last thoughts you have,dan, on onboarding and
offboarding.
Yeah, it's not easy.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
Sometimes you think the person looks great in the
interview and then sometimes youjust end up with a dud and
that's that's going to happen.
But if you employ some of thetechniques we talked about today
, where you get to know them alittle bit better before you
hire them, your chances aregoing to be better, that you're
going to build that great teamand yes, I have built some great
(15:29):
teams in my time but it takestime, it takes practice and you
don't beat yourself up too muchif you hire a dud.
It's going to happen once in awhile.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
We are the Lab Safety Gurus Dan Scungill and Sean
Kaufman.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Thank you for letting us do Lab Safety together.
Welcome to the Lab Safety Guru's Podcast.
I'm Dan Scungio.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
And I'm Sean Coffin, and together we're providing
safety insights for thoseworking in laboratory settings
doing safety together.
Okay, Dan let me ask you aquestion.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Sean, I'm scared when you ask me questions.
No, I'm kidding, go ahead, I'mready?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
I'm ready to climb a tree.
I know the answer is no.
How about a cow?
Speaker 1 (00:35):
To climb a tree?
Speaker 2 (00:36):
No, All right, let me ask you this this is the scary
part.
You ready?
Is it a trick question here,get ready.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
How about?
Would you ever hire a bird toclimb a tree?
A bird can get into the tree,but they're not really climbing
it.
I'm going to go with no on that.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Very good, dan, I can ask you this In the lab, have
you ever seen anybody who's beenhired to climb a tree but they
didn't climb the tree, eventhough it looks like they
climbed a tree, Sadly?
Yes.
And what happens to the moraleof a lab when somebody is hired
to do a job and it doesn't looklike, or it looks like they're
doing the job but they're reallynot.
(01:16):
What happens to the morale ofthe lab?
Speaker 1 (01:18):
It's so bad for the team, it's so bad On so many
different levels.
It's not good.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Now let me ask you one more question, Dan, and for
those out there listening toohow many people have been in an
environment and a workplacewhere they know for a fact the
people that have been hired todo the job should have never
been hired in the first place?
Dan, Both my hands are up.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
But, Sean, what's worse is I have been a lab
manager and I have hired peoplewho shouldn't have been in the
world.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
So wait, wait.
I thought you said you wouldn'thave hired a cow or a dolphin,
but you did, I did.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Dan, oh Dan, oh Dan.
Well, they were disguised.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
They were disguised as a monkey and I didn't know
they were a cow.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
This is, ladies and gentlemen.
This is so important.
This is what this podcast isabout.
Let's talk, dan, a little bitabout onboarding and offboarding
, because I think that we really, when we take a look at risk to
a laboratory and a culture ofsafety, one of the biggest risks
(02:28):
is that we can work so hard todevelop something so special and
, within an instant, hire thewrong person, and bringing in
the wrong person to a team candestroy a culture of safety very
quickly.
Do you have any?
I mean, do you have anyexamples in the years that
you've worked in a lab, dan,where that has happened?
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Yeah, unfortunately, I know a few different stories
where that has happened, whereyou know it's just somebody.
So I work in a large system oflaboratories and something that
I've seen happen is where peopleget sort of shuffled around
from laboratory to laboratory.
They sort of buy their time, dotheir job, but poorly in one
(03:12):
lab and they sort of know whenthey can start getting in
trouble and so they start to getready to transfer to another
lab and the manager wants to getyou know.
They're like good, I'll get ridof them.
They don't say anything to theother manager and they sort of
pass them along.
So if you're a leader in alaboratory and you've hired the
(03:33):
cow to climb the tree, you'regoing to hear it from your staff
.
Hopefully they're vocal enoughthat they're going to tell you
that this cow is not working outor you're going to hear it
where it really hurts and that'sin your results.
Whatever the outcome of yourlaboratory is if it's research,
if it's a health lab, if it's aclinical lab and suddenly
(03:55):
results you're putting outaren't good, that's really bad
for your laboratory and on allkinds of different levels.
So lots of ways that thatperson can really hurt your
laboratory really quickly,absolutely so, dan.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Here's what I'm going to do.
I'm going to play ping ponghere.
I'm going to talk about threethings that I think are critical
for onboarding, and I want you,after I summarize my three
things, you give me your threethings Does that sound good Okay
.
All right.
So here's first one number one.
Number one here we go Neverhire someone until you do an
(04:33):
on-the-job interview, and here'swhat I mean by that.
These are so small that we needto understand the chemistry
between staff, and so I wouldhonestly try to bring an
individual in, and I know it maybe difficult, I know it can be,
but typically you're not hiringsomebody with little to no
experience.
(04:54):
I think it would be a goodthing to have a working
interview to actually bring themin and have them work around
the staff they're going to bearound.
Now, dental offices do this allthe time because they realize
one bad employee can destroy awhole team that's been years
working together.
So I always would suggest thatwhen you're doing an interview,
(05:18):
you have a chance for the teamto not only work with and around
an individual, and sometimeswhat you can do is even
scavenger hunts.
You don't even have to do a inthe lab interview.
You could do all sorts of justgames where they all work
together to play a game.
They're going to get a feel forthe staff members.
So that's number one ononboarding.
The second thing I want toremind you is, if you do hire
(05:41):
someone, please don't make themspend the first week reading and
doing administrative stuff.
That is the worst thing youcould ever do to a human being.
If you're going to do that, letthem do it from home.
Give them all the admin stufffrom home so that the very first
thing they do when they come inis they start doing the job
they've been hired to do,meaning you show them, you ask
(06:04):
them to demonstrate it.
You get them to be the highestlevel of competency through
modeling the behavior you wantthem to do.
Human beings are so excited tostart their job that the worst
thing you can do for the firstcouple weeks of the job is put
them in a bunch of trainingprograms where, by the time they
finally get to do the job,they're exhausted and they're
already withdrawn.
So second thing on onboardingis don't bury them in that.
(06:27):
Let them do that from home andwhen they finally get into the
workplace with their staff thatthey're going to be working with
, unleash them to do thebehaviors that they've been
designed to do.
Now here's my third thing.
Dan, you're still there, right?
You're not sleeping on me.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
I'm here, I'm ready.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
The third thing is I want you to make sure that that
first day of that employee's jobthey don't want to go home.
You make it so memorable, youmake it the best day.
You have every single staffmember spend 15 to 20 minutes
with them, talking about whattheir first day on the job was
like for them.
You have them answer questions,you give them a mentor, you
(07:05):
pass them around, you take themto lunch, but you make their
first day a day that they'llnever forget.
You make sure they feelwelcomed on the first day.
Again, at the end of the day,they should want to come back
the next day and not be worriedabout what the next day is going
to look like.
So, dan, those are my threeonboarding tips.
(07:26):
What are your thoughts?
Speaker 1 (07:30):
I like them especially.
I just want to make a couple ofcomments on those firsts.
In a summer arena, people cando laboratory.
Students can do a clinicalrotation where they're in the
lab for two or three weeks as astudent.
What a great job interview thatis.
You get to know them prettywell.
You get to know whether they'rea cow or a monkey or whatever
(07:51):
it is you're looking for.
It's a great.
It's like a working interview.
It's fantastic.
The second thing you said don'tstart them on board reading and
doing computer-based trainingand things like that.
I was talking to a manager acouple of weeks ago and they
said that they make the personread all 300 policies and
procedures before they get themout on the bench training.
(08:12):
I said you do that really.
The manager said to me if Idon't do it, they'll never read
them after once they get in thelab.
I thought that's a terribleapproach.
I agree with you.
So my top three things foronboarding the first one is kind
of the same as yours Definitelymeet the team, including all
(08:32):
leaders and staff, while you'redoing the interview.
I also think you should providescenarios and talk about
scenarios.
If this happens, what do you do?
Because you want to get a senseof how their mind works and how
they work through those thingsthat could happen in the
laboratory you're trying to hirethem for.
The second thing for onboardingto me is safety orientation.
(08:56):
But I'm not talking, sean,about computer-based training or
policies and procedures.
I'm talking about a packet youuse to go over with the employee
, a packet that they can keepwith safety information.
But it also includes a walkthrough the lab, a safety walk.
Hey, let's go walk ourevacuation route.
Here's your location.
(09:18):
Let's go see the eye washes andsafety showers.
Let's go see where our spillkids are so they're not bored at
the beginning of their job.
They're still excited aboutlearning the laboratory that
they're going to get to work in.
But you're also teaching themsafety first thing.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Do you know what I love, dan?
What are safety items are?
Do you know what I love aboutwhat you just said?
I would pair that with food.
I would call it a safety lunch,or you can even call it a
safety brunch.
Listen, food is a grounder forpeople when they're nervous and
it brings people together, soyou can almost call it a safety
snack.
You can call it a safety brunch.
(09:53):
But if you did that and youtook them for 30 to 40 minutes
and did exactly what you justsaid, but you paired it with
food, and you were able to enjoyyourselves and talk, I love
that idea.
I think that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
I like it, and when you're in a big new building, I
do that too.
If we're going on the safetywalk, I also am doing a building
orientation.
Here's the ATM, in case youever need it.
Here's the cafeteria.
Let's have lunch.
Yeah, that's great.
I love that.
A safety lunch, that's great.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Our safety snack.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Safety snack.
The last one that I had waslike as follow-up basically,
with your new employee.
You need to follow up, assesshow they're doing, talk to them,
ask them, find out what theirlevel of excitement is on day
two, day three, day four, whilethey're new, so that they know
(10:45):
that you're an engaged leader,that you care about them and
that you're making sure thatthey're still happy and excited
to be where they are.
You've got to consistently meetwith that person and even the
team to see how they think theperson is doing.
It's a lot of involvement whenyou bring somebody new on board,
for sure?
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Well, I'll tell you this so you've done such a good
job in onboarding that thereputation has gotten out, dan,
that you never lose any staff.
Because, by the way, that's oneof the side effects for good
onboarding is that you are ableto maintain and retain good
quality staff.
But let's talk about the daywhen somebody decides the leaf.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
You're now off-boarding.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Think about a couple strategies, dan.
I've got three that come to mymind real fast.
The first is no matter whythey're leaving, treat the
person with dignity and respect.
Maintain professionalism, evenif you're upset that they may be
going.
It's going to be a huge loss.
Maintain a level ofprofessionalism.
(11:46):
If you're angry, if they'vemade a mistake, if it's a
termination, always, always,treat the person with respect,
with kindness, with humility,because it could prevent any
actions against you in the nearfuture.
So that's a good thing.
If it's appropriate, if it'sappropriate, always try to
celebrate a goodbye.
(12:07):
Make somebody feel and knowthat they will be missed as part
of the team.
If it is appropriate for thereasons that they may be
off-boarding, make sure youcollect all the property and out
there.
Listen, ladies and gentlemen,if you're a research or public
health laboratory, if you've gotsamples in freezers, transfer
them or get rid of them.
Do not let them sit in freezersso that 20 or 30 years from now
(12:31):
, these diseases are detectedand it makes international news.
So transfer all samples,destroy samples or transfer them
.
Do not let them sit there atall.
And, last but not least, pleasedo an exit interview and make
sure and I'm not just talkingabout an exit interview from the
(12:52):
individual leaving, but exitinterview from the team members
as well.
You want to make sure that youare going to replace what is
leaving the organization, whatis exiting the organization.
You want to understand what thenew deficit is so that when
you're looking to replace thatindividual, you'll have the
ability to do so in a good way.
Dan things that come to you.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Yeah, you pretty much echoed what I was thinking.
Exit interview is first on mylist.
You always want to make sureyou have that conversation.
Unless it's a terminationHopefully it's not that but
about why they may be leaving,what they thought of their time
here, what they think could beimproved in the laboratory, and
definitely celebrate that goesback to food.
If it's a good goodbyesomebody's retiring, somebody's
(13:38):
leaving, transferring definitelymake a celebration of the work
they have done in thatlaboratory.
That's always important.
And when you talk about youknow, collecting property, if
you're in like a researchlaboratory, there may be
chemicals lying around that needto be maybe gotten rid of.
There may be other things.
Like you said, get the stuffout of the freezer, but think
(14:01):
about all of the things a PI maybe working with if they're gone
from the lab.
Don't just let it sit there.
You see that a lot in researchlabs and that can be an old
chemical can be as dangerous asan old biological as well.
So you got to be careful aboutall of that.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Well, thank you, dan, and again, just, you know
inherent risks, these risks thatwe assume every day as
laboratory staff.
You know whether it be chemical, biological, radiological.
These are risks that we writeSOPs for.
These are risks that we seecoming.
These are things that we can dohazard analysis and risk
assessments on.
(14:37):
But one of the things that wereally don't see coming, dan, is
the risks that are associated,these residual risks that are
associated with hiring the rightpeople and with ensuring that,
when people leave, that there isa formal process that ensures
that the person exits in amanner that's going to reduce
(14:58):
and minimize risk to theorganization moving forward as
well.
So, any last thoughts you have,dan, on onboarding and
offboarding.
Yeah, it's not easy.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
Sometimes you think the person looks great in the
interview and then sometimes youjust end up with a dud and
that's that's going to happen.
But if you employ some of thetechniques we talked about today
, where you get to know them alittle bit better before you
hire them, your chances aregoing to be better, that you're
going to build that great teamand yes, I have built some great
(15:29):
teams in my time but it takestime, it takes practice and you
don't beat yourself up too muchif you hire a dud.
It's going to happen once in awhile.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
We are the Lab Safety Gurus Dan Scungill and Sean
Kaufman.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Thank you for letting us do Lab Safety together.
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