October 1, 2024 • 18 mins
How prepared are you mentally to handle a lab emergency? Join us as we unpack this crucial—but often overlooked—aspect of laboratory safety. In this riveting episode of the Lab Safety Gurus Podcast, we dive into the heart of psychological preparedness for lab workers. Dan Scungio shares his firsthand encounters with unexpected lab incidents, such as unknown source exposures and accidental pathogen contact. We discuss the everyday stressors of the lab environment, from staffing shortages to tight deadlines, and how they can lead to burnout, anxiety, and reduced performance. These factors can severely impede effective emergency responses, making mental readiness a vital component of laboratory safety.
Leadership and continuous improvement are pillars of a robust emergency response plan. We emphasize the importance of having a dedicated individual to document events during emergencies, facilitating thorough reviews or "hot wash" meetings to identify strengths and areas for improvement. Tabletop scenarios and drills are not just beneficial—they're essential for discovering weak points in your emergency management plans. Effective leadership during crises is also highlighted; a calm and composed leader can make all the difference, guiding their team with confidence and reassurance. Tune in as Dan Scungio and Sean Kaufman stress the indispensable role of planning and leadership in safeguarding our labs.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Lab Safety Gurus Podcast.
I'm Dan Scungio.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
And I'm Sean Coffman, and together we're providing
safety insights for thoseworking in laboratory settings,
doing safety together.
Hi, dan, welcome back.
We're a little bit behind.
We're supposed to be doing aSeptember and an October, so
we're going to do this kind ofback-to-back, but this
represents our September podcast.
Welcome back, I think you'vebeen on vacation.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Hi, sean, it's great to talk to you again.
My wife and I were able to takea dream vacation over to the
Mediterranean and stop at someports there.
It was outstanding.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Well, our hearts and thoughts and prayers are going
out to anybody who may bestruggling from the most recent
emergency hurricane.
I know that it came up throughFlorida into Georgia.
We got a little bit of it herein Georgia, but certainly not as
bad as what we're seeing inFlorida, east parts of Georgia,
north Carolina from what Iunderstand, I mean just a lot of
(00:59):
people.
Our hearts, our thoughts, ourprayers are with those
individuals who are struggling.
I don't know, dan, how did youguys fare up in Virginia?
Did you guys get anything upthere?
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Yeah, we're getting a little bit sort of today and in
the last couple of days sort ofin the middle of the state, but
nothing like they got in NorthCarolina and some other areas.
They just got hit so hard anddefinitely we've been praying
for them and anything we can dofor them we're happy to do it.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Well, I thought what we'd do to stay kind of in line
with the theme is talk a littlebit about psychological
preparedness for the laboratoryemergencies and, just in general
, psychological preparedness forthose who work in the
laboratory.
And I think that's an importantaspect because laboratories,
like most people know, areenvironments that are high stake
(01:47):
and when emergencies happen,not only can they significantly
impact the health and safety ofthose working in a lab, but it
could actually impact the healthand safety of those working
outside the lab as well.
So I think it's an importantthing to consider.
I don't know what your thoughtsare on it.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Yeah.
So, sean, I've run into acouple of things in my career
where we've had to deal withpeople who have had some lab
incident happen to them andsuddenly there are consequences
that they've never been preparedfor.
Something as simple maybe it'snot simple as an unknown source
exposure as simple maybe it'snot simple as an unknown source
(02:27):
exposure.
And now you have to takeprophylactic medication that's
potentially bad for your health,although you're taking it to
keep you from getting HIV orhepatitis or something like that
.
But now they tell you you knowyou really you shouldn't be
sleeping with your partner forsix months.
And there are a lot of personalthings they tell you when you're
on this prophylaxis.
And there have been some otherincidents I've been involved
(02:49):
with where you know maybesomebody got accidentally
exposed to you know a selectpathogen or something like a
Brucella or Francisella, and youhave to talk to them about what
are the potentials and you knowwe might want to put you on
antibiotics.
And it scares people If they'renot prepared for that or not
thinking about some of theharmful things that they're
(03:11):
working with on a regular basis.
And, of course, over time,people become complacent and
then all of a sudden, whenyou're faced with the reality of
some of the dangers of theenvironment that you're in, you
may not be psychologically readyfor it.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Absolutely 100%.
Now, when we talk aboutpreparedness, we definitely have
some threats in the lab, andlet's talk a little bit because
we're talking about thepsychological aspects of the lab
.
What are some of the topstressors that you find in the
laboratory, dan?
What are some common stressorsthat lab personnel have?
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Yeah, I think common stressors that we hear about
involve like staffing shortages,pressures about getting the
work out on time and just beingable to get you know laboratory
work is important, but there'salso paperwork and things.
Being able to get you knowlaboratory work is important,
but there's also paperwork andthings that have to be done
(04:09):
along with it and not being ableto get that done as well.
But those are some of thebigger stressors in the realms
in the labs where I work.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
No, absolutely.
I see, you know, I see very,very tight deadlines, not having
enough resources to achievethose deadlines.
Also, you know, doing this work, these experiments can
sometimes be high pressure.
They can be with animals thatare unpredictable and, quite
honestly, a mistake can lead toan exposure to a hazardous agent
(04:41):
or even a hazardous chemical.
So let me ask you this though,dan, and this is you're always
coming into work, you're alwaysgetting that type of stress.
What do those types ofstressors lead to if we're not
psychologically prepared forthem?
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Yeah, I think we burn out.
I think we react poorly whensomething happens if we're not
psychologically ready.
And I think, over time, ifnothing major happens, if there
are no emergent situations, thatliving like that, though, can
sort of burn you out and you'rekind of ready to move on or
(05:22):
maybe even end your career waytoo early if you're not prepared
to work in that sort ofenvironment.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
So, absolutely so.
Anxiety, burnout and, like yousaid, decreased performance.
I agree 100%.
Well, let's take thatenvironment.
So we've got these stressorsthat are normal in the
laboratory environment.
We know how those stressors, ifthey're not addressed, begin to
kind of weigh on people.
What about emergency response?
(05:52):
So what about the ability, withall of those things weighing
heavy on somebody?
How can that stress affecttheir ability to respond during
an emergency situation?
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Yeah, that's an important point, Sean, because
you're given let's say you havean emergency management plan for
your laboratory.
Depending on you know it shouldbe sort of a you do an all
hazards approach, right,whatever hazards you think could
happen in this laboratory,you're going to try to create a
plan to deal with them to thebest of your ability.
But you've got to teach that,you've got to know that, and
(06:29):
these are you know, emergencymanagement situations are not
things that happen every day,and so if you're not ready for
it, if you don't know what theprocedure is, if you haven't
drilled for it, the staff justisn't going to respond well.
So if you throw a poor responseinto what's already going to be
a chaotic situation, you'rejust adding more bad news to the
(06:53):
situation.
Under normal circumstances I'musing normal with air quotes
when people are ready for somesort of disaster or emergency
management situation, peoplestill react with.
It's still chaos, and that'severybody I've talked to after
some lab floods and hurricanes.
I've talked to some peoplewho've been through some
(07:14):
emergency situations and chaosis just.
It's a natural product of anemergency-type situation.
A lot of things are happeningthat people have never been
involved with before, and so ifyou're not psychologically ready
and you sort of throw that intothe fire, so to speak, it's
going to make it a lot worse, Ithink.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Well, no, absolutely 100%.
And before we transition,because I think it's important
that we, you know, let's imaginethat we are going through an
emergency and we are in a highstress situation.
Dan, we're going to talk alittle bit about how we can
prepare, which actually helps uswith our psychological
(07:54):
preparedness, but let's zoom inon that moment where we are
having high levels of stress.
What are some things that wecan do in those moments that
reduce our overall stress levels?
Speaker 1 (08:09):
Yeah, I think there are a couple things you can do,
and some of it may depend on thekind of person you are.
For me, you know I'm going tobe praying while I'm going
through that kind of situation.
For me, you know I'm going tobe praying while I'm going
through that kind of situation.
I'm going to be trying toremember the most important
things to do based on mytraining.
But you also have to rememberthat everybody else in your
group and in your situation isalso stressed out going through
(08:34):
the same situation, and soremembering kindness for our
coworkers I think about thesepoor hospitals in North Carolina
where they're evacuatingpatients Laboratorians in those
hospitals.
They're not used to evacuating,they don't help evacuate
patients, but they may be askedto be pulled into those
situations because really thelab's not going to be doing
(08:55):
anything.
Then you need to be mentallyprepared as well to be doing
something you've never donebefore and helping in a way that
you've never helped before.
So having a helping mindsetthroughout the situation will
really help.
And also, it's really importantto remember that everybody else
is going through it the sametime you are, so calm down as
(09:18):
best you can and work your waythrough it and try to help other
people through the situation,because it will pass.
But it's a lot to bring to theforefront of your mind so that
you're not you don't want tocreate situations where you're
butting heads with other people,you're arguing, you're
disagreeing, you're yelling.
(09:38):
None of that's going to helpyou in that kind of a situation,
so it's important to rememberthat others are going through it
too.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
I think it's important.
You know we obviously you have,you know, breathing exercises.
My favorite, dan, is just totake a time out to turn
everything off, get away fromphones, get away from TVs, and
take a 15-minute time out whereyou focus on your breathing, you
reflect on the most importantaspects in your life and then
(10:05):
come back with vigor and kind ofa sense of being refilled.
But one thing that I also knowthat has worked for me is
actually being prepared, soactually having plans in place.
So, for example, dan, I was onthe road when the hurricane was
getting ready to hit.
(10:25):
This was two days prior and Isaid to Jacqueline I said, hey,
jacqueline, do me a favor, getall the cars filled with gas.
Make sure that we have backupchargers that are full for our
phones if we need to plug in.
Dan, I love sleeping with a fanon and we have fans that are
that are battery operated, youknow, by charging, and I said
could you please charge the fansfor me so I have a fan blowing
(10:48):
on me if we lose power?
You know, make sure we got somewater extra.
You know, extra supplies.
These are things that when weknow an emergency could happen,
when we're anticipating that onecould happen.
Having a game plan in place canactually help minimize anxiety
(11:09):
and stress associated withemergencies.
So that's what I want to talkabout now is what type of
training and simulation wouldyou recommend for people in
laboratory environments topractice Like?
What type of emergencies do youthink they should practice to
be prepared or to be betterpsychologically prepared for
emergencies?
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Yeah, I think there's a couple different kinds of
emergencies.
What's really?
This will sound strange, butwhat's really nice about a
hurricane or a blizzard or somesort of natural disaster like
that is they're predictable tosome degree.
You've got a couple dayswarning.
So when you, if you do atabletop drill, uh, in your lab,
(11:47):
about you know a storm coming,a hurricane or something like
that, you know, you do have totalk about things like you know.
Just like you talked about,sean, doing preparations at home
.
You have to do preparations atwork.
If I'm going to be stuck in thislaboratory for a couple days,
potentially because of theweather, I need to bring my
medications, I need to bring mychange of clothes, I need to
(12:09):
bring my favorite pillow,whatever it is, and that needs
to be part of your drilling aswell.
So that needs to be practiced.
Again.
The best way to do that, Ithink, is like a tabletop drill,
where you're going over thedifferent scenarios.
Okay, the power just went out,now what are you going to do?
Okay, the water just went out,now what are our options?
And the other kind of disaster,sean, I think, is the
(12:33):
unexpected kind, you know, andsomething you know.
It depends on what area of thecountry where you live in or the
world right.
It could be an earthquake, itcould be a plane crash or
something you did not expect toaffect your facility, your
building, your laboratory.
That's a little bit harder towork through, but it also should
(12:53):
be drilled, because theunexpected can happen just as
easily as the expected when itcomes to natural disasters or
emergency management situations.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
No, absolutely.
I can't even imagine there'sgot to be some folks that you
know if they don't have powerfor weeks and you've got
research facilities withfreezers, there better be some
type of redundancy in place,otherwise you're going to lose
years and years worth offreezers by not having a place
you could ship your samples toand keep them, you know, viable
(13:24):
or keep them cool.
Dan, let me, because we'regetting towards the end of our
time.
I've got three big issues.
I want to talk to you aboutResiliency and continuous
improvement.
Now.
The resiliency is defined asthe ability for laboratories to
bounce back after they've had anemergency or a crisis or a
situation, and that really issomething that relies on having
(13:49):
good relationships, having agood sense of what your mission
and your vision statements are.
But talk to me a little bitabout continuous evaluation and
continuous improvement, not onlyduring, but maybe following, an
emergency event.
What should organizations do topractice continuous improvement
following an emergency?
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Yeah, one of the first things you should be doing
is somebody during theemergency management situation
should be keeping track of allthe goings on, and maybe you
have a scribe or somebody who'sin charge of keeping that
information, because it isextremely valuable to have a hot
wash or some sort of reviewafter the fact with the people
(14:31):
who are involved in it.
And there are also other thingsto consider.
After you know, maybe you needto take pictures for insurance
purposes, other issues like thatthat come up.
But when you have thatdiscussion in those meetings and
you might not get it allcovered in one meeting by any
stretch about what went reallywell and what did not go so
(14:51):
really well and what can we doto improve this for the next
time and you don't have to livethrough an actual event to do
that you can go through a goodtabletop scenario and then it
helps you find the holes in youremergency management plan.
But the real situation willalso help you find those holes
as well.
But it's always a greatopportunity for continual
(15:15):
improvement because you now seewhere those holes are.
You now see where people maybedidn't do what they were
supposed to do or your systemwasn't set up the way it should
be set up, and so you make thatbetter for the next time and you
continue to do that, and then,if no other disaster is coming,
have a drill and see how that'sgoing to work with the
(15:37):
improvements that you made, andthen work on it and work on it
and continually make thoseimprovements.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Now, dan, when I was a little kid final topic here
when I was a little kid and Iwould get scared, my father
would always say look at me.
And I would look at him andhe'd say do I look scared?
And I'd say no and he goes.
Then you have no reason to bescared.
Leadership all eyes during anemergency response are on
leaders.
All eyes, we all, look to theleaders during an emergency.
(16:06):
Tell me, dan, your thoughts onwhat leadership and what
leadership's role is.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
What should a?
Speaker 2 (16:13):
leader be and what should a leader do during an
emergency situation?
Speaker 1 (16:18):
And they do have to remember you are the role model.
People are going to be lookingto you in that situation, not
just the laboratory leader, butthe safety leader.
If that's a different person,sometimes they're one and the
same but if you're in charge ofthat situation, or you're the
lead, or consider the lead forany kind of emergency management
situation, do remember thateverybody's going to be looking
(16:41):
to you, no matter how you'refeeling, no matter how you're
responding, and so you do needto have that level of that sense
of calmness, the ability tospeak to others and keep them
calm, because you are, in asense, their father or their
mother in that situation.
And look at me, we're going tobe okay, we're going to get
through this.
(17:02):
This is how we're going to doit.
And if you are the leader andyou need to take a moment for
yourself, like Sean talked aboutearlier, go do that.
Go close the door for a minute,take a few deep breaths, say a
prayer, do whatever you need todo to settle yourself, center
yourself and then go back to it.
But it is important to rememberto lead that situation.
(17:23):
You are a leader and you are arole model and people are
looking to you, so be ready forthat.
Psychologically, however, youneed to prepare.
Get yourself ready, becauseit's going to be key to do that.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Very good, dan, very good.
Nothing to add there, dan.
I want to thank you again.
It's good to talk with you thismonth.
Ladies and gentlemen, take careof yourselves.
Not only be psychologicallyprepared, but remember that one
of the greatest things you cando to psychologically prepare is
to actually have a plan, haveresources and be ready for when
(17:57):
or if an emergency situationoccurs.
We are the lab safety gurus DanScungio and Sean Kaufman.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Thank you for letting us do lab safety together.
Welcome to the Lab Safety Gurus Podcast.
I'm Dan Scungio.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
And I'm Sean Coffman, and together we're providing
safety insights for thoseworking in laboratory settings,
doing safety together.
Hi, dan, welcome back.
We're a little bit behind.
We're supposed to be doing aSeptember and an October, so
we're going to do this kind ofback-to-back, but this
represents our September podcast.
Welcome back, I think you'vebeen on vacation.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Hi, sean, it's great to talk to you again.
My wife and I were able to takea dream vacation over to the
Mediterranean and stop at someports there.
It was outstanding.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Well, our hearts and thoughts and prayers are going
out to anybody who may bestruggling from the most recent
emergency hurricane.
I know that it came up throughFlorida into Georgia.
We got a little bit of it herein Georgia, but certainly not as
bad as what we're seeing inFlorida, east parts of Georgia,
north Carolina from what Iunderstand, I mean just a lot of
(00:59):
people.
Our hearts, our thoughts, ourprayers are with those
individuals who are struggling.
I don't know, dan, how did youguys fare up in Virginia?
Did you guys get anything upthere?
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Yeah, we're getting a little bit sort of today and in
the last couple of days sort ofin the middle of the state, but
nothing like they got in NorthCarolina and some other areas.
They just got hit so hard anddefinitely we've been praying
for them and anything we can dofor them we're happy to do it.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Well, I thought what we'd do to stay kind of in line
with the theme is talk a littlebit about psychological
preparedness for the laboratoryemergencies and, just in general
, psychological preparedness forthose who work in the
laboratory.
And I think that's an importantaspect because laboratories,
like most people know, areenvironments that are high stake
(01:47):
and when emergencies happen,not only can they significantly
impact the health and safety ofthose working in a lab, but it
could actually impact the healthand safety of those working
outside the lab as well.
So I think it's an importantthing to consider.
I don't know what your thoughtsare on it.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Yeah.
So, sean, I've run into acouple of things in my career
where we've had to deal withpeople who have had some lab
incident happen to them andsuddenly there are consequences
that they've never been preparedfor.
Something as simple maybe it'snot simple as an unknown source
exposure as simple maybe it'snot simple as an unknown source
(02:27):
exposure.
And now you have to takeprophylactic medication that's
potentially bad for your health,although you're taking it to
keep you from getting HIV orhepatitis or something like that
.
But now they tell you you knowyou really you shouldn't be
sleeping with your partner forsix months.
And there are a lot of personalthings they tell you when you're
on this prophylaxis.
And there have been some otherincidents I've been involved
(02:49):
with where you know maybesomebody got accidentally
exposed to you know a selectpathogen or something like a
Brucella or Francisella, and youhave to talk to them about what
are the potentials and you knowwe might want to put you on
antibiotics.
And it scares people If they'renot prepared for that or not
thinking about some of theharmful things that they're
(03:11):
working with on a regular basis.
And, of course, over time,people become complacent and
then all of a sudden, whenyou're faced with the reality of
some of the dangers of theenvironment that you're in, you
may not be psychologically readyfor it.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Absolutely 100%.
Now, when we talk aboutpreparedness, we definitely have
some threats in the lab, andlet's talk a little bit because
we're talking about thepsychological aspects of the lab
.
What are some of the topstressors that you find in the
laboratory, dan?
What are some common stressorsthat lab personnel have?
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Yeah, I think common stressors that we hear about
involve like staffing shortages,pressures about getting the
work out on time and just beingable to get you know laboratory
work is important, but there'salso paperwork and things.
Being able to get you knowlaboratory work is important,
but there's also paperwork andthings that have to be done
(04:09):
along with it and not being ableto get that done as well.
But those are some of thebigger stressors in the realms
in the labs where I work.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
No, absolutely.
I see, you know, I see very,very tight deadlines, not having
enough resources to achievethose deadlines.
Also, you know, doing this work, these experiments can
sometimes be high pressure.
They can be with animals thatare unpredictable and, quite
honestly, a mistake can lead toan exposure to a hazardous agent
(04:41):
or even a hazardous chemical.
So let me ask you this though,dan, and this is you're always
coming into work, you're alwaysgetting that type of stress.
What do those types ofstressors lead to if we're not
psychologically prepared forthem?
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Yeah, I think we burn out.
I think we react poorly whensomething happens if we're not
psychologically ready.
And I think, over time, ifnothing major happens, if there
are no emergent situations, thatliving like that, though, can
sort of burn you out and you'rekind of ready to move on or
(05:22):
maybe even end your career waytoo early if you're not prepared
to work in that sort ofenvironment.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
So, absolutely so.
Anxiety, burnout and, like yousaid, decreased performance.
I agree 100%.
Well, let's take thatenvironment.
So we've got these stressorsthat are normal in the
laboratory environment.
We know how those stressors, ifthey're not addressed, begin to
kind of weigh on people.
What about emergency response?
(05:52):
So what about the ability, withall of those things weighing
heavy on somebody?
How can that stress affecttheir ability to respond during
an emergency situation?
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Yeah, that's an important point, Sean, because
you're given let's say you havean emergency management plan for
your laboratory.
Depending on you know it shouldbe sort of a you do an all
hazards approach, right,whatever hazards you think could
happen in this laboratory,you're going to try to create a
plan to deal with them to thebest of your ability.
But you've got to teach that,you've got to know that, and
(06:29):
these are you know, emergencymanagement situations are not
things that happen every day,and so if you're not ready for
it, if you don't know what theprocedure is, if you haven't
drilled for it, the staff justisn't going to respond well.
So if you throw a poor responseinto what's already going to be
a chaotic situation, you'rejust adding more bad news to the
(06:53):
situation.
Under normal circumstances I'musing normal with air quotes
when people are ready for somesort of disaster or emergency
management situation, peoplestill react with.
It's still chaos, and that'severybody I've talked to after
some lab floods and hurricanes.
I've talked to some peoplewho've been through some
(07:14):
emergency situations and chaosis just.
It's a natural product of anemergency-type situation.
A lot of things are happeningthat people have never been
involved with before, and so ifyou're not psychologically ready
and you sort of throw that intothe fire, so to speak, it's
going to make it a lot worse, Ithink.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Well, no, absolutely 100%.
And before we transition,because I think it's important
that we, you know, let's imaginethat we are going through an
emergency and we are in a highstress situation.
Dan, we're going to talk alittle bit about how we can
prepare, which actually helps uswith our psychological
(07:54):
preparedness, but let's zoom inon that moment where we are
having high levels of stress.
What are some things that wecan do in those moments that
reduce our overall stress levels?
Speaker 1 (08:09):
Yeah, I think there are a couple things you can do,
and some of it may depend on thekind of person you are.
For me, you know I'm going tobe praying while I'm going
through that kind of situation.
For me, you know I'm going tobe praying while I'm going
through that kind of situation.
I'm going to be trying toremember the most important
things to do based on mytraining.
But you also have to rememberthat everybody else in your
group and in your situation isalso stressed out going through
(08:34):
the same situation, and soremembering kindness for our
coworkers I think about thesepoor hospitals in North Carolina
where they're evacuatingpatients Laboratorians in those
hospitals.
They're not used to evacuating,they don't help evacuate
patients, but they may be askedto be pulled into those
situations because really thelab's not going to be doing
(08:55):
anything.
Then you need to be mentallyprepared as well to be doing
something you've never donebefore and helping in a way that
you've never helped before.
So having a helping mindsetthroughout the situation will
really help.
And also, it's really importantto remember that everybody else
is going through it the sametime you are, so calm down as
(09:18):
best you can and work your waythrough it and try to help other
people through the situation,because it will pass.
But it's a lot to bring to theforefront of your mind so that
you're not you don't want tocreate situations where you're
butting heads with other people,you're arguing, you're
disagreeing, you're yelling.
(09:38):
None of that's going to helpyou in that kind of a situation,
so it's important to rememberthat others are going through it
too.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
I think it's important.
You know we obviously you have,you know, breathing exercises.
My favorite, dan, is just totake a time out to turn
everything off, get away fromphones, get away from TVs, and
take a 15-minute time out whereyou focus on your breathing, you
reflect on the most importantaspects in your life and then
(10:05):
come back with vigor and kind ofa sense of being refilled.
But one thing that I also knowthat has worked for me is
actually being prepared, soactually having plans in place.
So, for example, dan, I was onthe road when the hurricane was
getting ready to hit.
(10:25):
This was two days prior and Isaid to Jacqueline I said, hey,
jacqueline, do me a favor, getall the cars filled with gas.
Make sure that we have backupchargers that are full for our
phones if we need to plug in.
Dan, I love sleeping with a fanon and we have fans that are
that are battery operated, youknow, by charging, and I said
could you please charge the fansfor me so I have a fan blowing
(10:48):
on me if we lose power?
You know, make sure we got somewater extra.
You know, extra supplies.
These are things that when weknow an emergency could happen,
when we're anticipating that onecould happen.
Having a game plan in place canactually help minimize anxiety
(11:09):
and stress associated withemergencies.
So that's what I want to talkabout now is what type of
training and simulation wouldyou recommend for people in
laboratory environments topractice Like?
What type of emergencies do youthink they should practice to
be prepared or to be betterpsychologically prepared for
emergencies?
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Yeah, I think there's a couple different kinds of
emergencies.
What's really?
This will sound strange, butwhat's really nice about a
hurricane or a blizzard or somesort of natural disaster like
that is they're predictable tosome degree.
You've got a couple dayswarning.
So when you, if you do atabletop drill, uh, in your lab,
(11:47):
about you know a storm coming,a hurricane or something like
that, you know, you do have totalk about things like you know.
Just like you talked about,sean, doing preparations at home
.
You have to do preparations atwork.
If I'm going to be stuck in thislaboratory for a couple days,
potentially because of theweather, I need to bring my
medications, I need to bring mychange of clothes, I need to
(12:09):
bring my favorite pillow,whatever it is, and that needs
to be part of your drilling aswell.
So that needs to be practiced.
Again.
The best way to do that, Ithink, is like a tabletop drill,
where you're going over thedifferent scenarios.
Okay, the power just went out,now what are you going to do?
Okay, the water just went out,now what are our options?
And the other kind of disaster,sean, I think, is the
(12:33):
unexpected kind, you know, andsomething you know.
It depends on what area of thecountry where you live in or the
world right.
It could be an earthquake, itcould be a plane crash or
something you did not expect toaffect your facility, your
building, your laboratory.
That's a little bit harder towork through, but it also should
(12:53):
be drilled, because theunexpected can happen just as
easily as the expected when itcomes to natural disasters or
emergency management situations.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
No, absolutely.
I can't even imagine there'sgot to be some folks that you
know if they don't have powerfor weeks and you've got
research facilities withfreezers, there better be some
type of redundancy in place,otherwise you're going to lose
years and years worth offreezers by not having a place
you could ship your samples toand keep them, you know, viable
(13:24):
or keep them cool.
Dan, let me, because we'regetting towards the end of our
time.
I've got three big issues.
I want to talk to you aboutResiliency and continuous
improvement.
Now.
The resiliency is defined asthe ability for laboratories to
bounce back after they've had anemergency or a crisis or a
situation, and that really issomething that relies on having
(13:49):
good relationships, having agood sense of what your mission
and your vision statements are.
But talk to me a little bitabout continuous evaluation and
continuous improvement, not onlyduring, but maybe following, an
emergency event.
What should organizations do topractice continuous improvement
following an emergency?
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Yeah, one of the first things you should be doing
is somebody during theemergency management situation
should be keeping track of allthe goings on, and maybe you
have a scribe or somebody who'sin charge of keeping that
information, because it isextremely valuable to have a hot
wash or some sort of reviewafter the fact with the people
(14:31):
who are involved in it.
And there are also other thingsto consider.
After you know, maybe you needto take pictures for insurance
purposes, other issues like thatthat come up.
But when you have thatdiscussion in those meetings and
you might not get it allcovered in one meeting by any
stretch about what went reallywell and what did not go so
(14:51):
really well and what can we doto improve this for the next
time and you don't have to livethrough an actual event to do
that you can go through a goodtabletop scenario and then it
helps you find the holes in youremergency management plan.
But the real situation willalso help you find those holes
as well.
But it's always a greatopportunity for continual
(15:15):
improvement because you now seewhere those holes are.
You now see where people maybedidn't do what they were
supposed to do or your systemwasn't set up the way it should
be set up, and so you make thatbetter for the next time and you
continue to do that, and then,if no other disaster is coming,
have a drill and see how that'sgoing to work with the
(15:37):
improvements that you made, andthen work on it and work on it
and continually make thoseimprovements.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Now, dan, when I was a little kid final topic here
when I was a little kid and Iwould get scared, my father
would always say look at me.
And I would look at him andhe'd say do I look scared?
And I'd say no and he goes.
Then you have no reason to bescared.
Leadership all eyes during anemergency response are on
leaders.
All eyes, we all, look to theleaders during an emergency.
(16:06):
Tell me, dan, your thoughts onwhat leadership and what
leadership's role is.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
What should a?
Speaker 2 (16:13):
leader be and what should a leader do during an
emergency situation?
Speaker 1 (16:18):
And they do have to remember you are the role model.
People are going to be lookingto you in that situation, not
just the laboratory leader, butthe safety leader.
If that's a different person,sometimes they're one and the
same but if you're in charge ofthat situation, or you're the
lead, or consider the lead forany kind of emergency management
situation, do remember thateverybody's going to be looking
(16:41):
to you, no matter how you'refeeling, no matter how you're
responding, and so you do needto have that level of that sense
of calmness, the ability tospeak to others and keep them
calm, because you are, in asense, their father or their
mother in that situation.
And look at me, we're going tobe okay, we're going to get
through this.
(17:02):
This is how we're going to doit.
And if you are the leader andyou need to take a moment for
yourself, like Sean talked aboutearlier, go do that.
Go close the door for a minute,take a few deep breaths, say a
prayer, do whatever you need todo to settle yourself, center
yourself and then go back to it.
But it is important to rememberto lead that situation.
(17:23):
You are a leader and you are arole model and people are
looking to you, so be ready forthat.
Psychologically, however, youneed to prepare.
Get yourself ready, becauseit's going to be key to do that.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Very good, dan, very good.
Nothing to add there, dan.
I want to thank you again.
It's good to talk with you thismonth.
Ladies and gentlemen, take careof yourselves.
Not only be psychologicallyprepared, but remember that one
of the greatest things you cando to psychologically prepare is
to actually have a plan, haveresources and be ready for when
(17:57):
or if an emergency situationoccurs.
We are the lab safety gurus DanScungio and Sean Kaufman.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Thank you for letting us do lab safety together.
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