October 17, 2025 • 16 mins
Safety doesn’t take a holiday when budgets tighten or tempers flare. We open up about a tough season, the quiet grief many are carrying, and why small fractures in everyday connection can ripple into big risks at the bench. From cashierless cafeterias to self-checkout lanes, those missing micro-moments of human contact show up in the lab as thinner patience, weaker trust, and slower recovery when mistakes happen. That’s exactly where we focus: how to restore the muscle of respectful disagreement so safety and science can stand together.
We get practical about conflict in tight lab spaces. Think of “relationship first” as a core control, not a soft skill. You’ll hear ways to build credibility before you need it—quick check-ins, naming pressures without judgment, and framing safety asks around shared outcomes like fewer reworks and steadier turnaround times. We also share simple phrases that de-escalate heat on the spot: “help me understand,” “what risk are we accepting,” and “what makes this safe enough to try.” These tools turn disagreement from a productivity drain into a learning loop.
With the government shutdown squeezing support systems, we dig into resilience: dusting off emergency plans, verifying critical inventories, mapping backup suppliers, and protecting high-value controls like engineering barriers and biosafety equipment. We challenge the false trade-off that treats safety as optional when money is tight. Science is essential—and so is the safety that keeps it running. By separating hot-button talk from active procedures and parking disputes that distract from tasks, teams preserve attention where it matters most.
If you care about lab safety culture, conflict that doesn’t cost focus, and keeping operations steady under pressure, this conversation is for you. Subscribe, share with a colleague who needs fresh language for tough moments, and leave a review with one practice your team uses to disagree without risking the work.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:01):
Welcome to the Lab Safety Gurus Podcast.
I'm Dan Scungio.
SPEAKER_01 (00:07):
And I'm Sean Kaufman, and together we're
providing safety insights forthose working in laboratory
settings.
Doing safety together.
Well, welcome back.
And Dan, how are you doing?
SPEAKER_00 (00:20):
Sean Kaufman, it is great to be with you again.
Doing great.
It's been a fantastic summer.
A lot of good stuff happening.
We had a little family vacation.
Uh did a couple conferences thatwere really great and just been
having a great old time.
How about you?
SPEAKER_01 (00:35):
Yeah, I know you've been staying busy.
Happy Biosafety Month, by theway.
Today, this month, October, isBiosafety Month, and I know
there's a lot of people, a lotof people going to APSA
International's conference.
Dan, are you gonna make thatconference this year?
I'm not gonna be able to make itthis year.
Hopefully next year.
I'm not either, but you know,you should try.
And apparently, they're offeringremote courses too.
(00:56):
So there are people that canattend.
If you can't get there, I don'teven know where it is this year,
to be honest with you, Dan.
I gotta figure that one outbecause I I couldn't go.
I so I didn't even look.
But um it's gonna, I'm I mean,they've they've got one heck of
a good lineup and certainlysomething to consider if you
want to attend remotely, that'sfor sure.
And of course, if you havecertifications and and safety,
(01:16):
it's always a a good thing to beable to attend AFSA so you can
get that professionaldevelopment.
But crazy month, a lot of thingsgoing on.
You know, we haven't had asession, Dan, um, since uh
September here.
October uh August, late August,August was our last one.
Uh, we're now halfway throughOctober.
And I have to be honest withthis with the uh audience.
(01:37):
Last time Dan and I gottogether, we were uh pretty
depressed.
Um, it was following theassassination of Charlie Kirk.
And uh so I have to be honestwith you, that we spent a lot of
time kind of talking about theworld and the chaos, and and we
were trying to do a podcast onwhat do you do when you don't
get along or you disagree withpeople?
(01:58):
And we decided rather than doinga podcast, that Dan and I would
just have kind of a healingconversation.
Uh, you know, as many of youknow, both Dan and I are very,
very faithful, very uh uh lovinguh Christian men, and uh and the
world that we live in uhsometimes takes a turn that just
hurts our hearts.
So, you know, Dan, I don't knowif you want to say anything, but
(02:20):
we can certainly in this podcastmention uh strategies for how do
we uh get along with people wedisagree with.
Um certainly not throughviolence, that's for sure.
SPEAKER_00 (02:33):
No, it's uh but it's a really important topic, Sean,
because you know, I value thetime that we get to spend
together and talk to each other.
Um, but I also, you know, I'm anintrovert by nature and I like
my one-on-one time with peoplebest.
Um, but I also am looking out,you know, in this past month uh
(02:53):
in the public, uh, just go intothe grocery store, just go in
here and go in there.
And I I facetiously say a lot,the reason you know these things
are happening in the world isbecause of self-checkout.
And what I mean by you wouldthink as an introvert, I would
love self-checkout in the store.
SPEAKER_01 (03:08):
You're talking about you know, hold on one second.
I gotta get this straightbecause uh you were talking, I'm
triggered.
I have to warn you, I'mtriggered.
Let me get I I I'm triggeredbecause you're really talking
about the self-checkout atgrocery stores, right?
SPEAKER_00 (03:20):
I am.
SPEAKER_01 (03:21):
You're talking about the fact that groceries prices
have gone up and and the costthat, you know, obviously the
overhead on groceries is peoplehave to stock it, they have to
travel.
But one of the overhead piecesused to be the fact that
somebody would do the work foryou.
They would bag it, they wouldscan it, and they would show a
smile and offer customerservice.
(03:42):
And today we're doing all ofthat, and I'm not getting paid
to do that.
But I'm sorry, Dan, I didn'tmean to stop you.
No, it just triggered me.
It just triggered me.
You are so right.
SPEAKER_00 (03:51):
Not only aren't you getting paid, you're not getting
a discount on your grocerieswhen you do it yourself.
So, so that piece I was angry atfor a little bit because my
brother is very angry aboutthat.
He does not like that at all.
And those are his reasons.
But now, so something recentlyhappened in the cafeterias in
the hospitals where I work, andthat is there are no more
cashiers.
(04:12):
So you go and you somebody, youknow, fills food in your bowl
and puts a lid on it and puts asticker on it, and they don't
talk to you, you don't talk tothem.
They hand you the bowl with asticker and you go to the cash
register and you check yourselfout and you pay for yourself.
There's no human interaction.
And this, even though I'm anintrovert and I should like
self-checkout, this is whatbothers me the most.
(04:34):
There's no human connectionanymore to any other human
being, even though it might be acashier, you smile at them, you
say thank you.
They might say thank you.
I don't care what they say, butthere's human connection there.
And now we're so much in ourbubbles, and it's getting worse
and worse as the generations goon.
I know I sound like an oldperson when I say that, but um,
(04:55):
there's no human connectionanymore.
And that's why life has becomecheap.
So now let's go back to thepoint you're talking about.
We disagree on something, but wecan't talk about it because
we're not used to talking andconversing with each other.
We barely know how to makerelationships with each other,
let alone have a deepconversation about our
differences and opinions.
SPEAKER_01 (05:16):
And that you know, that's yeah, it's a challenge,
Dan, because you know,laboratory environments, the the
folks that are listening tothis, you know, they're tight
spaces.
Um, you you have to work aroundpeople in very close spaces.
And we're not even sometimestalking about just uh uh
personal differences, because weknow that in the in the world
today, there's a lot of peoplethat have personal opinions and
(05:38):
a lot of people disagree witheach other.
But we're also talking aboutwhat do we do when we
professionally disagree with oneanother as well?
Um and and and those skills andthose strategies.
You know, how do we how do weexpress our disagreement
respectfully with each other?
How do we how do we see a personwe disagree with as really truly
(06:00):
a not an enemy, uh, and uhcertainly you know not a uh a
competitor.
I mean, you just you're lookingat somebody as just simply they
have a different opinion thanyou do.
SPEAKER_00 (06:12):
And that that difference of opinion can be as
simple as I think you shouldwear a lab coat, Sean, when
you're working in the lab, andyou don't think you should
because it's hot.
Uh and so this has been for me,in my role in lab safety for
years, my approach has alwaysbeen, okay, let's see, I'm a lab
safety officer, I've got athousand employees I have to
(06:34):
oversee for safety, and I mighthave to talk to some that I
don't regularly see about thesethings.
So, how do I do that and have ahave a good interaction with
them?
And that that our difference ofopinion on this isn't going to
be the isn't going to be the bigproblem.
And so the the answer that Ialways come to is okay,
(06:55):
relationship first.
I've got to work on thatrelationship first, put money in
that relationship bank, and thenI will have much better success
in coaching that person about alab code or whatever it is.
Um, and it does, it takeslonger.
You don't get immediate resultsfrom that, but you start to
build relationships with humanbeings and you start to care for
(07:19):
them.
They understand that you carefor them, and that goes miles
toward what you're trying to doin the long run.
Improve the safety culture, helpthem understand why, but also
help them understand that youcare about them and that they
deserve to be safe and theyunderstand that what they're
doing wasn't safe.
Uh, it's a lot, it's a lot ofpieces to put together, it's a
(07:42):
lot to teach somebody.
I'm I'm, you know, uh workingwith with someone in lab safety,
been mentoring him for a fewyears, and that doesn't come
natural to everybody, therelationship first piece.
Um, and they're just, I want tofix this, I want to get this
done, I want them to do this, Iwant them to do that.
That's great, but why shouldthey do it because you tell them
(08:03):
to?
You have no relationship there,you have nothing to build that
upon to make that happen.
So I think when we havedisagreements in lab about
things, and it's not alwaysabout safety, right?
It could be, oh, I'm tired offollowing you on the bench, you
never clean up, everything's amess, there's no supplies, it
could be whatever.
Um, and you how do you talk tosomebody about that and make it
(08:24):
be an effective conversation?
You better build thatrelationship first, or it's not
really gonna work.
SPEAKER_01 (08:30):
100%.
You know, Dan, we we we talked alittle bit about uh uh learning
how to disagree better intoday's world, and and obviously
that has an impact uh on ourlabs.
And I think all of us do need toreally, really truly understand
that we can become moreaccepting of people who are
different than we are.
(08:51):
We may disagree with them.
We there are lots of people,Dan, that you know and I know
that we have fundamental valuedisagreements on, but it doesn't
mean I hate them, it doesn'tmean they're invaluable, and it
doesn't mean that that I can'trespect them.
Um and and and and and and whatthat means, I don't have to
respect what they're doing um ifif it's a behavioral aspect, but
from a from a trying my best touh uh uh to uh uh be me and and
(09:18):
allow people to be be them, andwe can disagree openly and
respectfully, uh, but I don'thave to do what they're doing or
believe what they're believinguh to still have a relationship
uh uh that is respectful andprofessional with that other
person.
But Dan, uh I want to getsomething else right now because
it is October, it is safetymonth.
And we have a shutdown, it iskilling me, Dan.
(09:40):
It's killing me, it's justkilling it's like I have to
diversify my client list becausewhen you work for the federal
government only and you have ashutdown, you're not working
anymore, you're on vacation.
And uh, and so there's a shoutout to all those who are
affected by this.
Uh, praying for you and prayingfor your families, uh, pray for
contractors too.
We don't get paid.
(10:00):
Um, it it stinks.
But Dan, when when costs getcut, like when we we don't have
money, one of the very firstthings people like to cut is
safety.
Um, and so here's a goodquestion for you, Dan.
Do you think that this shutdownis actually increasing potential
risks in laboratories right now,as we speak?
(10:24):
That I mean, does this shutdownaffect safety directly in
laboratory environments?
SPEAKER_00 (10:29):
The the answer is definitely yes, uh, but it also
depends on the arena you'reworking in.
If you're working in agovernment lab or a
government-funded lab, or youruh your go-to for regulations,
your resources are OSHA, theCDC, NIOSH, you're you're short
(10:51):
on resources.
Uh they're done right now.
And we don't know how longthat's gonna last.
Um, I would just like to put outthere, you know, to everybody
who's listening, you know, don'thesitate to reach out to Sean or
reach out to me if there arequestions or problems you have
or or resources maybe we candirect you to.
(11:11):
Uh, yes, the answer is a is aresounding yes.
There is a there's a problem uhwith a lack of things that we
might need to reach.
Right now, I don't think it's aPPE issue.
It's not a supply issue, butcould there be supply issues
coming because of this?
Yeah, so it could it could beeven worse than that.
Uh we went through during thepandemic uh all the different
(11:35):
ways that you need to stocksupplies, reuse supplies, and
reusing PPE and all of that messthat came along with that.
You know, I don't think it'llget that bad again.
Hopefully there'll be resolutionbefore any of that happens, but
it's time to dust off youremergency management plan and
look at look at those things andwhat your plans are for those
kinds of problems that can arisein your life.
SPEAKER_01 (11:55):
From a contingency standpoint, absolutely.
And you know, the governmentlikes to look at things like
well, is it essential ornon-essential?
So let me, I'm gonna throw asoftball question to you, Dan.
There's no doubt that science isessential.
No doubt.
Diagnostics, I would even argueresearch aspects are you know,
clinical diagnostic research aseven animal health, in my
(12:18):
opinion.
You're always mind okay.
Well, if if that is essential,Dan, isn't safety unessential?
I mean, we could call safety inlater, right?
Or is safety as essential asscience is?
I I don't know how to separatethem.
unknown (12:36):
I know.
SPEAKER_00 (12:36):
I don't know how to separate them, but I know there
are people out there who coulduh because they would answer,
sure, safety can come later.
I've got other considerations,I've got to get the work out
now.
And I just think that that's a adisconnect.
You're not realizing theconsequences.
Uh, you know, past uhperformance does not necessarily
(12:58):
indicate what's going to happenin the future when it comes to
safety, because I could be a baduh person in lab safety for 30
years and not have a consequencethat I know of.
Uh, and then tomorrow somethingfatal happens because of that
thing I've been doing for solong.
So I know there are people whocould say yes, but I'm not one
of them.
You can't have one without theother.
(13:20):
Science is essential,laboratories are essential, but
you can't have them withoutsafety.
If you take all the safety umout of the laboratory, you know,
it isn't just engineeringcontrols, it isn't just uh PPE,
there's also the human behavioraspects of it.
Um it's it's all gonna fallapart quickly if that's what
(13:40):
happens.
Uh and I'm hoping that uheverybody in these conditions
today realize that also.
SPEAKER_01 (13:47):
Well, I mean, there there's no doubt.
I think, you know, I thinksafety is 100% essential.
I think it's part of uh part ofthe overall package.
But you know, let's uh let's uhcombine the two, Dan.
We're gonna get excited.
We've got about a minute left.
I'm gonna combine the two.
Dan, Dan, do you agree?
Do you think that if you'reworking with someone you
(14:08):
politically disagree with, oreven socially disagree with, or
maybe you're in an argument or afight, do you think that the
disagreement you're experiencinghas an impact on safety?
SPEAKER_00 (14:23):
Uh I think it could.
I work with people all the timethat I disagree with
politically, religiously, youname it.
I mean, that's just the humanrace.
Um and your approach is reallyimportant with that.
Uh, can it affect safety and howyou work?
Yeah, but you should so I youshouldn't bring that into the
(14:47):
workplace, Sean.
I know, Dan, but people do.
As adults, we should be able tohave conversations where we talk
about our differences inpolitics, religion, whatever it
is, but there are many whocan't.
And it's better, safer in a lotof instances, if you can't do
that, to just not bring it intothe workplace.
But yes, you're there are peoplewho do uh all the time.
(15:09):
And so you if I see that, I Iremain silent.
I'm not gonna add to that atwork.
It's not safe.
SPEAKER_01 (15:16):
Do we have disagreements in the laboratory
while we're doing our work?
SPEAKER_00 (15:20):
Uh, we shouldn't have anything that's going to
distract us from the work goingon.
If it becomes a distraction, getrid of it.
SPEAKER_01 (15:27):
That's it.
There it is.
If you if you're distracted,yeah, it could be a challenge of
safety.
Well, that's it.
That's what we got for thismonth, ladies and gentlemen.
And uh, we are praying for thoseout there who may be affected by
this shutdown.
Uh, personally, Dan, I think asolution could be very simple.
If we find all of thepoliticians who are responsible
(15:48):
for the shutdown a thousanddollars a day for not doing
their job, then I bet you theshutdown would be taken care of.
I really do.
It would be taken care of very,very easy.
It's not our job to approve thebudget, it's their job too.
And uh if we found if we findthem a thousand bucks a day to
get that job done, I bet youthat those disagreements would
(16:08):
probably go away.
Yeah, they would.
So I agree.
Anyway, but they take that, bythe way, as a tip.
If you want to end disagreementsin the laboratory, just find
people for every day they spendin disagreement, and then
disagreements will go away.
All right, ladies and gentlemen,Dan, you've got the last word.
Have a great one.
Dan, you've got the last word.
SPEAKER_00 (16:27):
Live in peace and harmony, everybody.
That's what it's all about.
Stay safe.
SPEAKER_01 (16:32):
We are the lab safety gurus, Dan Scungio and
Sean Kaufman.
SPEAKER_00 (16:37):
Thank you for letting us do lab safety
together.
Welcome to the Lab Safety Gurus Podcast.
I'm Dan Scungio.
SPEAKER_01 (00:07):
And I'm Sean Kaufman, and together we're
providing safety insights forthose working in laboratory
settings.
Doing safety together.
Well, welcome back.
And Dan, how are you doing?
SPEAKER_00 (00:20):
Sean Kaufman, it is great to be with you again.
Doing great.
It's been a fantastic summer.
A lot of good stuff happening.
We had a little family vacation.
Uh did a couple conferences thatwere really great and just been
having a great old time.
How about you?
SPEAKER_01 (00:35):
Yeah, I know you've been staying busy.
Happy Biosafety Month, by theway.
Today, this month, October, isBiosafety Month, and I know
there's a lot of people, a lotof people going to APSA
International's conference.
Dan, are you gonna make thatconference this year?
I'm not gonna be able to make itthis year.
Hopefully next year.
I'm not either, but you know,you should try.
And apparently, they're offeringremote courses too.
(00:56):
So there are people that canattend.
If you can't get there, I don'teven know where it is this year,
to be honest with you, Dan.
I gotta figure that one outbecause I I couldn't go.
I so I didn't even look.
But um it's gonna, I'm I mean,they've they've got one heck of
a good lineup and certainlysomething to consider if you
want to attend remotely, that'sfor sure.
And of course, if you havecertifications and and safety,
(01:16):
it's always a a good thing to beable to attend AFSA so you can
get that professionaldevelopment.
But crazy month, a lot of thingsgoing on.
You know, we haven't had asession, Dan, um, since uh
September here.
October uh August, late August,August was our last one.
Uh, we're now halfway throughOctober.
And I have to be honest withthis with the uh audience.
(01:37):
Last time Dan and I gottogether, we were uh pretty
depressed.
Um, it was following theassassination of Charlie Kirk.
And uh so I have to be honestwith you, that we spent a lot of
time kind of talking about theworld and the chaos, and and we
were trying to do a podcast onwhat do you do when you don't
get along or you disagree withpeople?
(01:58):
And we decided rather than doinga podcast, that Dan and I would
just have kind of a healingconversation.
Uh, you know, as many of youknow, both Dan and I are very,
very faithful, very uh uh lovinguh Christian men, and uh and the
world that we live in uhsometimes takes a turn that just
hurts our hearts.
So, you know, Dan, I don't knowif you want to say anything, but
(02:20):
we can certainly in this podcastmention uh strategies for how do
we uh get along with people wedisagree with.
Um certainly not throughviolence, that's for sure.
SPEAKER_00 (02:33):
No, it's uh but it's a really important topic, Sean,
because you know, I value thetime that we get to spend
together and talk to each other.
Um, but I also, you know, I'm anintrovert by nature and I like
my one-on-one time with peoplebest.
Um, but I also am looking out,you know, in this past month uh
(02:53):
in the public, uh, just go intothe grocery store, just go in
here and go in there.
And I I facetiously say a lot,the reason you know these things
are happening in the world isbecause of self-checkout.
And what I mean by you wouldthink as an introvert, I would
love self-checkout in the store.
SPEAKER_01 (03:08):
You're talking about you know, hold on one second.
I gotta get this straightbecause uh you were talking, I'm
triggered.
I have to warn you, I'mtriggered.
Let me get I I I'm triggeredbecause you're really talking
about the self-checkout atgrocery stores, right?
SPEAKER_00 (03:20):
I am.
SPEAKER_01 (03:21):
You're talking about the fact that groceries prices
have gone up and and the costthat, you know, obviously the
overhead on groceries is peoplehave to stock it, they have to
travel.
But one of the overhead piecesused to be the fact that
somebody would do the work foryou.
They would bag it, they wouldscan it, and they would show a
smile and offer customerservice.
(03:42):
And today we're doing all ofthat, and I'm not getting paid
to do that.
But I'm sorry, Dan, I didn'tmean to stop you.
No, it just triggered me.
It just triggered me.
You are so right.
SPEAKER_00 (03:51):
Not only aren't you getting paid, you're not getting
a discount on your grocerieswhen you do it yourself.
So, so that piece I was angry atfor a little bit because my
brother is very angry aboutthat.
He does not like that at all.
And those are his reasons.
But now, so something recentlyhappened in the cafeterias in
the hospitals where I work, andthat is there are no more
cashiers.
(04:12):
So you go and you somebody, youknow, fills food in your bowl
and puts a lid on it and puts asticker on it, and they don't
talk to you, you don't talk tothem.
They hand you the bowl with asticker and you go to the cash
register and you check yourselfout and you pay for yourself.
There's no human interaction.
And this, even though I'm anintrovert and I should like
self-checkout, this is whatbothers me the most.
(04:34):
There's no human connectionanymore to any other human
being, even though it might be acashier, you smile at them, you
say thank you.
They might say thank you.
I don't care what they say, butthere's human connection there.
And now we're so much in ourbubbles, and it's getting worse
and worse as the generations goon.
I know I sound like an oldperson when I say that, but um,
(04:55):
there's no human connectionanymore.
And that's why life has becomecheap.
So now let's go back to thepoint you're talking about.
We disagree on something, but wecan't talk about it because
we're not used to talking andconversing with each other.
We barely know how to makerelationships with each other,
let alone have a deepconversation about our
differences and opinions.
SPEAKER_01 (05:16):
And that you know, that's yeah, it's a challenge,
Dan, because you know,laboratory environments, the the
folks that are listening tothis, you know, they're tight
spaces.
Um, you you have to work aroundpeople in very close spaces.
And we're not even sometimestalking about just uh uh
personal differences, because weknow that in the in the world
today, there's a lot of peoplethat have personal opinions and
(05:38):
a lot of people disagree witheach other.
But we're also talking aboutwhat do we do when we
professionally disagree with oneanother as well?
Um and and and those skills andthose strategies.
You know, how do we how do weexpress our disagreement
respectfully with each other?
How do we how do we see a personwe disagree with as really truly
(06:00):
a not an enemy, uh, and uhcertainly you know not a uh a
competitor.
I mean, you just you're lookingat somebody as just simply they
have a different opinion thanyou do.
SPEAKER_00 (06:12):
And that that difference of opinion can be as
simple as I think you shouldwear a lab coat, Sean, when
you're working in the lab, andyou don't think you should
because it's hot.
Uh and so this has been for me,in my role in lab safety for
years, my approach has alwaysbeen, okay, let's see, I'm a lab
safety officer, I've got athousand employees I have to
(06:34):
oversee for safety, and I mighthave to talk to some that I
don't regularly see about thesethings.
So, how do I do that and have ahave a good interaction with
them?
And that that our difference ofopinion on this isn't going to
be the isn't going to be the bigproblem.
And so the the answer that Ialways come to is okay,
(06:55):
relationship first.
I've got to work on thatrelationship first, put money in
that relationship bank, and thenI will have much better success
in coaching that person about alab code or whatever it is.
Um, and it does, it takeslonger.
You don't get immediate resultsfrom that, but you start to
build relationships with humanbeings and you start to care for
(07:19):
them.
They understand that you carefor them, and that goes miles
toward what you're trying to doin the long run.
Improve the safety culture, helpthem understand why, but also
help them understand that youcare about them and that they
deserve to be safe and theyunderstand that what they're
doing wasn't safe.
Uh, it's a lot, it's a lot ofpieces to put together, it's a
(07:42):
lot to teach somebody.
I'm I'm, you know, uh workingwith with someone in lab safety,
been mentoring him for a fewyears, and that doesn't come
natural to everybody, therelationship first piece.
Um, and they're just, I want tofix this, I want to get this
done, I want them to do this, Iwant them to do that.
That's great, but why shouldthey do it because you tell them
(08:03):
to?
You have no relationship there,you have nothing to build that
upon to make that happen.
So I think when we havedisagreements in lab about
things, and it's not alwaysabout safety, right?
It could be, oh, I'm tired offollowing you on the bench, you
never clean up, everything's amess, there's no supplies, it
could be whatever.
Um, and you how do you talk tosomebody about that and make it
(08:24):
be an effective conversation?
You better build thatrelationship first, or it's not
really gonna work.
SPEAKER_01 (08:30):
100%.
You know, Dan, we we we talked alittle bit about uh uh learning
how to disagree better intoday's world, and and obviously
that has an impact uh on ourlabs.
And I think all of us do need toreally, really truly understand
that we can become moreaccepting of people who are
different than we are.
(08:51):
We may disagree with them.
We there are lots of people,Dan, that you know and I know
that we have fundamental valuedisagreements on, but it doesn't
mean I hate them, it doesn'tmean they're invaluable, and it
doesn't mean that that I can'trespect them.
Um and and and and and and whatthat means, I don't have to
respect what they're doing um ifif it's a behavioral aspect, but
from a from a trying my best touh uh uh to uh uh be me and and
(09:18):
allow people to be be them, andwe can disagree openly and
respectfully, uh, but I don'thave to do what they're doing or
believe what they're believinguh to still have a relationship
uh uh that is respectful andprofessional with that other
person.
But Dan, uh I want to getsomething else right now because
it is October, it is safetymonth.
And we have a shutdown, it iskilling me, Dan.
(09:40):
It's killing me, it's justkilling it's like I have to
diversify my client list becausewhen you work for the federal
government only and you have ashutdown, you're not working
anymore, you're on vacation.
And uh, and so there's a shoutout to all those who are
affected by this.
Uh, praying for you and prayingfor your families, uh, pray for
contractors too.
We don't get paid.
(10:00):
Um, it it stinks.
But Dan, when when costs getcut, like when we we don't have
money, one of the very firstthings people like to cut is
safety.
Um, and so here's a goodquestion for you, Dan.
Do you think that this shutdownis actually increasing potential
risks in laboratories right now,as we speak?
(10:24):
That I mean, does this shutdownaffect safety directly in
laboratory environments?
SPEAKER_00 (10:29):
The the answer is definitely yes, uh, but it also
depends on the arena you'reworking in.
If you're working in agovernment lab or a
government-funded lab, or youruh your go-to for regulations,
your resources are OSHA, theCDC, NIOSH, you're you're short
(10:51):
on resources.
Uh they're done right now.
And we don't know how longthat's gonna last.
Um, I would just like to put outthere, you know, to everybody
who's listening, you know, don'thesitate to reach out to Sean or
reach out to me if there arequestions or problems you have
or or resources maybe we candirect you to.
(11:11):
Uh, yes, the answer is a is aresounding yes.
There is a there's a problem uhwith a lack of things that we
might need to reach.
Right now, I don't think it's aPPE issue.
It's not a supply issue, butcould there be supply issues
coming because of this?
Yeah, so it could it could beeven worse than that.
Uh we went through during thepandemic uh all the different
(11:35):
ways that you need to stocksupplies, reuse supplies, and
reusing PPE and all of that messthat came along with that.
You know, I don't think it'llget that bad again.
Hopefully there'll be resolutionbefore any of that happens, but
it's time to dust off youremergency management plan and
look at look at those things andwhat your plans are for those
kinds of problems that can arisein your life.
SPEAKER_01 (11:55):
From a contingency standpoint, absolutely.
And you know, the governmentlikes to look at things like
well, is it essential ornon-essential?
So let me, I'm gonna throw asoftball question to you, Dan.
There's no doubt that science isessential.
No doubt.
Diagnostics, I would even argueresearch aspects are you know,
clinical diagnostic research aseven animal health, in my
(12:18):
opinion.
You're always mind okay.
Well, if if that is essential,Dan, isn't safety unessential?
I mean, we could call safety inlater, right?
Or is safety as essential asscience is?
I I don't know how to separatethem.
unknown (12:36):
I know.
SPEAKER_00 (12:36):
I don't know how to separate them, but I know there
are people out there who coulduh because they would answer,
sure, safety can come later.
I've got other considerations,I've got to get the work out
now.
And I just think that that's a adisconnect.
You're not realizing theconsequences.
Uh, you know, past uhperformance does not necessarily
(12:58):
indicate what's going to happenin the future when it comes to
safety, because I could be a baduh person in lab safety for 30
years and not have a consequencethat I know of.
Uh, and then tomorrow somethingfatal happens because of that
thing I've been doing for solong.
So I know there are people whocould say yes, but I'm not one
of them.
You can't have one without theother.
(13:20):
Science is essential,laboratories are essential, but
you can't have them withoutsafety.
If you take all the safety umout of the laboratory, you know,
it isn't just engineeringcontrols, it isn't just uh PPE,
there's also the human behavioraspects of it.
Um it's it's all gonna fallapart quickly if that's what
(13:40):
happens.
Uh and I'm hoping that uheverybody in these conditions
today realize that also.
SPEAKER_01 (13:47):
Well, I mean, there there's no doubt.
I think, you know, I thinksafety is 100% essential.
I think it's part of uh part ofthe overall package.
But you know, let's uh let's uhcombine the two, Dan.
We're gonna get excited.
We've got about a minute left.
I'm gonna combine the two.
Dan, Dan, do you agree?
Do you think that if you'reworking with someone you
(14:08):
politically disagree with, oreven socially disagree with, or
maybe you're in an argument or afight, do you think that the
disagreement you're experiencinghas an impact on safety?
SPEAKER_00 (14:23):
Uh I think it could.
I work with people all the timethat I disagree with
politically, religiously, youname it.
I mean, that's just the humanrace.
Um and your approach is reallyimportant with that.
Uh, can it affect safety and howyou work?
Yeah, but you should so I youshouldn't bring that into the
(14:47):
workplace, Sean.
I know, Dan, but people do.
As adults, we should be able tohave conversations where we talk
about our differences inpolitics, religion, whatever it
is, but there are many whocan't.
And it's better, safer in a lotof instances, if you can't do
that, to just not bring it intothe workplace.
But yes, you're there are peoplewho do uh all the time.
(15:09):
And so you if I see that, I Iremain silent.
I'm not gonna add to that atwork.
It's not safe.
SPEAKER_01 (15:16):
Do we have disagreements in the laboratory
while we're doing our work?
SPEAKER_00 (15:20):
Uh, we shouldn't have anything that's going to
distract us from the work goingon.
If it becomes a distraction, getrid of it.
SPEAKER_01 (15:27):
That's it.
There it is.
If you if you're distracted,yeah, it could be a challenge of
safety.
Well, that's it.
That's what we got for thismonth, ladies and gentlemen.
And uh, we are praying for thoseout there who may be affected by
this shutdown.
Uh, personally, Dan, I think asolution could be very simple.
If we find all of thepoliticians who are responsible
(15:48):
for the shutdown a thousanddollars a day for not doing
their job, then I bet you theshutdown would be taken care of.
I really do.
It would be taken care of very,very easy.
It's not our job to approve thebudget, it's their job too.
And uh if we found if we findthem a thousand bucks a day to
get that job done, I bet youthat those disagreements would
(16:08):
probably go away.
Yeah, they would.
So I agree.
Anyway, but they take that, bythe way, as a tip.
If you want to end disagreementsin the laboratory, just find
people for every day they spendin disagreement, and then
disagreements will go away.
All right, ladies and gentlemen,Dan, you've got the last word.
Have a great one.
Dan, you've got the last word.
SPEAKER_00 (16:27):
Live in peace and harmony, everybody.
That's what it's all about.
Stay safe.
SPEAKER_01 (16:32):
We are the lab safety gurus, Dan Scungio and
Sean Kaufman.
SPEAKER_00 (16:37):
Thank you for letting us do lab safety
together.
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