March 22, 2024 • 16 mins
What defines a true leader in the high-stakes world of lab safety? Join us as we unravel this question with insights from my guest, the founder of the Leadership Institute for Biosafety Professionals. We tackle the nuanced roles of leadership in creating and maintaining a robust safety culture, and share personal experiences that highlight the intricate dance of juggling safety with other managerial responsibilities. Discover whether a leader is shaped by their title or their actions, and how even the most well-intentioned leaders can inadvertently impact the safety protocols within their labs.
In a thought-provoking exchange, we delve into the crafting of personal leadership statements based on the powerful LEADS framework—Listen, Empathize, Adapt, Demonstrate, and Serve. This episode isn't just about theoretical concepts; it's an actionable call to step up and embody the qualities of servant leadership in the lab, regardless of your position. We invite you to reflect on your role in upholding safety standards and consider the profound impact of a well-articulated leadership mantra. It's an episode for those ready to take ownership and inspire a culture of safety and responsibility.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Lab Safety Guru's Podcast.
I'm Dan Scungio.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
And I'm Sean Cawthon, and together we're providing
safety insights for thoseworking in laboratory settings.
Doing safetytogether.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Sean, it is great to be back talking with you Today.
I want to talk about somethingthat is kind of a broad topic.
The title of the topic I wantto talk about is 5 Minutes with
a Lab Leader.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Well, that's aokay.
Well, do you mind if I startwith a question?
Yeah, please do.
How do you define a leader?
I think that's where we got tostart.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Okay, you just threw me way off.
That's a way off topic.
No, it's not really.
What is a lab leader?
Is it the lab manager?
Is it the director?
Is it the medical director?
Is it the PI?
Is it the professor?
Is it the?
What is a lab manager?
Or is itor a lab leader?
Is it somebody who's in chargeof a certain section of the lab?
Speaker 2 (01:09):
That's a good question when I think of a lab
leader, go ahead.
Oh no, I was thinking, is it aposition of authority?
I mean that's.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Yeah, what do you think?
Yeah, it doesn't have to be so.
In my career in the clinicallab, I will watch people who are
working in the lab who are notin official leadership roles,
and I'll watch to see whether ornot they own their job.
And when they start to showownership, they take ownership,
they go above and beyond.
(01:36):
Then I start to think, hmm,this is a leader in their group
and they're going to be a futureleader in title before too long
, because I'm going to mentorthem, I'm going to keep them
going on their trajectory.
So being a leader can becancome with an official title, or
(01:58):
maybe it doesn't.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Yeah.
What I wonder is if we were ina classroom, dan, which you and
I both love if we were out thereand we were to say alright, how
many of you have seen someonewho has a leadership position
but is not acting like a leader?
How many hands, yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
I know how many hands would go up, dan Both of mine
are up right now.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
I'll tell you what we have?
A pandemic of absenteeleadership.
I mean, we really do.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Leadership.
Absenteeism is huge.
So that's one of the reasons Iwanted to talk about this today,
because I have worked withseveral different laboratory
leaders.
I'm a lab safety officer.
That is my job, and sometimeswhen I work with a lab leader
and they support lab safety, itmakes my job so easy.
The lab looks great, things aregoing well, but you know, I have
(02:52):
oversight in my job of over 20laboratories and that means 20
different official leaders,managers, whatever and to think
that they would all have thesame level of support for safety
, that's just not reality.
So when I talk about somethinglike five minutes with a lab
(03:12):
leader, I'm like trying to talkto somebody who's going to be
able to influence the safetyculture in the laboratory.
But here's something else Ialways teach, sean I teach this
to everybody in my consultingbusiness and that is if you're a
leader, you better be leadinglab safety, but if your leader
(03:33):
is not somebody who supports labsafety, this is what you can do
to make a difference for safetyin your laboratory.
I have to teach both, becausethat is the reality Leadership
is absent or they're notsupporting lab safety in so many
labs.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Well, I mean, I can back up everything you're saying
by just reminding people whohave children.
I mean, look, your house is asorganized as how engaged the
parents are.
If you're engaged in yourchildren's lives, then your
children are going to be justfine, but if you're not, then
(04:08):
the children are going to losetrack, they're going to lose
their focus, they're going tolose their ways, and so, when
you look at it, leadership it'sa human function.
We see it with parents, we seeit with coaches, on teams.
Dan, the reality is is howengaged leadership is is a huge
(04:29):
factor in how well safety isgoing to be implemented
throughout the organization.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
So, sean, where do you give grace when you need to?
I always try to think of theperson and all that they have to
do.
And people do so much damage totheir lab safety culture.
Some leaders damage it so badlythey don't intend to.
They're, you know, running intothe lab, they've got an
emergency, they have to talk tosomebody in the lab, and so they
(05:00):
run in there.
They don't notice Johnny'schewing gum.
They don't notice Jane doesn'thave a lab coat on and they
really need to talk to Sharonabout something they do, and
they run back in their office.
Now they didn't intend to dothat.
Their plate is full, they'rebusy, but by not noticing those
safety issues and not sayinganything about them.
They just did so much damage totheir safety culture
(05:23):
unintentionally, so I try togive them grace, because I've
been a laboratory manager, Iknow what it's like to have so
many things in your plate and Ihave seen safety issues like PPE
issues and I always note it inmy head.
You know what?
I think I'm going to addressthat later because there's a
bigger issue.
Right now.
This person's wearing meshsneakers, but I really got to
fix the schedule and I need themon my side.
(05:46):
Right now I can't be talking tothem about their sneakers.
I sort of understand that,having been in that position.
But what do you do?
Where do you draw the line?
Speaker 2 (05:56):
This is, yeah, this is how do you make?
Speaker 1 (05:58):
sure that safety is always on your plate.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Well, this is tough.
I think the example that youprovided is a very challenging
one, because you're almostexpecting a human being to be
fully aware of the environmentand the staff within the
environment, and if they're not,if their awareness levels
aren't there, then we evaluatetheir leadership skills and
(06:24):
capabilities.
On that and I know you're notalluding to that, but you're
right, sometimes that can happen.
Dan, my idea of safetyleadership is unique.
It may be different, and what Imean by that is that I believe
that a safety officer has thesensitivity to see the things
(06:47):
that you're talking about.
So, for example, I was at awedding once and there was an
entomologist who was there and Iwas outside and this
entomologist was talking aboutwhether or not I heard the
crickets.
And I said, yeah, I hear thecrickets.
And the entomologist said doyou know?
There's like 60 differentcrickets and I'm like what are
you talking about?
I hear a cricket and they'relike no, no, no, these are
different crickets.
(07:08):
And it's like that individual'sbeen trained to actually listen
to the differences.
A safety officer has beentrained to detect potential
risks in the lab, and so when Ithink of leadership, laboratory
leadership I think of the safetyprofessional being able to say,
hey, we've got concerns, and ifthe staff in the lab don't
(07:30):
listen to the safety officer,the leadership comes down and
makes them listen.
The leadership comes down andsupports and backs up safety.
The leadership demonstrates acommitment to safety not just
with words but with actions, andso that's kind of.
I believe everybody candemonstrate leadership qualities
(07:51):
.
But a leader, like a child, canact like a parent, but in the
end a parent still is going tohave to be a parent, and so I
believe everyone within a labhas to demonstrate leadership
qualities.
Meaning, if it's only going totake, for example, dan and I
don't want to dominate this butif someone's eating a chicken
biscuit in the lab and there arefive people watching this
(08:15):
person eat it and it takes thesafety officer to come in and
say you shouldn't be eating achicken biscuit, we have a lack
of leadership quality in the lab.
So it's those other five peopleshould be saying you shouldn't
be eating a chicken biscuit inthe lab.
So to me, leadership is theforce that holds people
(08:38):
accountable to the expectationof the organization, and
everybody else must haveleadership qualities, but
leadership is critical forsafety.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
It is, and that's why , if I had five minutes with a
lab leader who is in aleadership position, I'd be
having a conversation with themabout that and asking are they
supporting safety in the waythat they should?
In that way, because I see thata lot.
I'm a lab safety officer.
I'll walk into a laboratory andI'll see a vendor working on an
(09:11):
analyzer, trying to fix it, andthey're not wearing a lab coat.
So I immediately walk up tothem and I say what size lab
coat can I get you?
Because that kind of astatement automatically tells
them okay, I have to be wearinga lab coat, there's no question
about it.
They tell me their size andwhen I bring it to them, I
apologize to them, like I'msorry that nobody else in the
lab who is watching you do thiswork offered you PPE.
(09:33):
That's on us, and I say it loudenough usually when other
people are around in the lab,because I want them to
understand that should be ourculture.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
What a beautiful yeah , what a beautiful yeah, and
often it's sad that I have to dothat Well it's a beautiful
approach, though, Dan.
I mean really it's a beautifulapproach because there is no
option given.
It's almost like if you wantyour child to wear shorts for
the day, you say, what colorshorts do you want to wear, and
the child doesn't even know,because they've got some type of
control.
So now it's a beautifulapproach.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
It really is.
Yeah, I wish it would work forother kinds of PPE and other
safety issues.
I'm trying to find that samepowerful culture statement that
there's no choice for otherthings, so maybe we could have a
podcast about that one day tocome up with some other good
ideas.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Absolutely.
If I had five minutes with aleader and I do, I mean, and the
work that I do I am veryfortunate I get to talk to
several leaders of large scaleoperations.
One of the greatest returns ofinvestment in safety, dan, is
leadership presence on the frontline.
So if I had five minutes with alaboratory leader, I would say
(10:40):
get out, get to the front line,talk to your staff, ask them are
you having any safetychallenges?
Are you having any concerns?
Do you have any issues?
I mean, literally flatten theorganization by getting out as a
leader and talking to yourfront line staff.
Yeah, what do?
Speaker 1 (10:57):
they call that in high reliability organizations
rounding to influence Leaders.
That's a HRO tool.
But you're not influencingunless you're modeling.
And so if you're a leader andyou're rounding with your staff,
with whoever's in the lab, thenyou need to make sure you're
modeling those safe behaviors.
(11:18):
I'm going to be in the lab coatholding a huddle.
I'm going to be in the labholding a huddle.
Put on a lab coat.
I'm going to be doing some workwhere I'm at the counter and
I'm going to be touching somethings.
Put on some gloves and a labcoat.
You don't model the behavior.
Wear the correct shoes, wearthe correct pants and the lab.
I was performing an inspectionin a lab and I was finding a lot
(11:38):
of safety issues.
And the safety officer was withme and she turned to me and she
was very upset and she said Dan, why aren't people doing the
right thing in this lab?
And I looked at her and I saidare you often in these labs as
the safety officer?
And she said yeah, and I said,ok, but today you're wearing
complete pants and mesh sneakers.
(11:58):
What is the message you'resending?
You're walking through all thelabs in clothes that aren't even
acceptable in a laboratory.
So, modeling, if you're goingto round to influence, make sure
you're modeling to model theright behaviors, model the use
of PPE and engineering controls,whatever it is you need to be
doing as a leader Also, too.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
What I'm hoping, dan, is that maybe somewhere out
there, somebody listening tothis may say maybe the leader at
my organization could benefitfrom this podcast, and if
anybody receives something likethat, I'm hoping that they also
leaders can promotepsychological safety, meaning I
want leaders and organizationsto promote difficult
(12:41):
conversations.
There are so many times, dan,that I hear people say hey, sean
, I, our leaders, are unengaged.
They don't even engage like Ihave to be.
I feel like I have to be apolice officer and I keep
reminding people if you'resafety, you're not a police
officer.
Your job is to say to someone Iam witnessing things that are
(13:03):
or a hazard, and I'mcommunicating with you about
those things.
I'm hoping that you choose tohear, do or respect what I'm
saying.
But a lot of people will say no,it's human nature, dan.
I perceive this risk to bedifferently.
I don't see this as a risk.
I don't see jumping out of aplane with a parachute as a risk
.
I don't see handling apoisonous snake at a risk.
(13:23):
I would say that's crazy.
But they don't see that it'shuman nature to have different
risk perceptions and it's alsohuman nature to have different
risk tolerances, an organizationright protocols to, to control
for that.
And so I would say that youknow, a safety officer's job is
to identify hazard andcommunicate it and hope that
staff Choose to adhere to it andif they don't, then they have
(13:47):
to turn to leadership to getthat assistance.
So I hope leaders promote apsychologically safe culture, a
culture where Anybody can havedifficult conversations, even
when they disagree.
They can bring those in those,those conversations to the
forefront and, you know,sometimes even just agree to
disagree.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Yeah, and I would say to any anybody who's a safety
leader out there, and no matterwhat position you officially
have, if you have questionsabout how to deal with an issue,
how to deal with a particularissue, how to support a certain
safety issue, how to introduceit or how to talk to somebody
About that, please feel free topick up the phone or email Sean
(14:30):
or myself.
We will both be glad to talk toyou about this issue and be
able to help you with that.
There are ways to do that.
There are good ways to do it,there are bad ways to do it, but
you don't want to ignore it andnot be a leader of safety in
your laboratory.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Well, dan, I used to teach, we, we ran, I developed,
I was the founder of theleadership Institute for
biosafety professionals Manyyears.
I don't know if you knew that,but I, we ran that program for
many years and we even joinedAPSA and delivering that program
.
But one thing we do at thebeginning of each of those
programs, stan, is we'd have allthe staff write their
(15:08):
leadership statements, and whatwe would do if you wanted to
write a leadership, if anyoneout there wants to be a leader
in safety, to write a leadershipstatement, you just take leads
L, because you know leaders leador leads LE AGS, and you find a
word for each, a verb for each,for each letter.
(15:28):
So, for example, dan, mine is aleader listens, a leader
empathizes With those they serve, a leader adapts to the
environment.
A leader demonstrates, like yousaid, okay, and a leader serves.
That's my S.
So my, my leadership statementis I will, or my commitment is I
(15:50):
will listen, empathize, adapt,demonstrate and serve.
And you can change any of thoseletters to whatever you want.
But that's kind of how you candevelop your leadership
statement, just some easyexercise that you can do.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Yep, that is beautiful and I think if you're
listening out there, that issomething you should do so you
can figure out what that is foryou.
Write it down, come up with it,just massage a little bit, make
it right for you and put it onthe, on the on the board behind
you so that you can see it andremember that and be reminded of
that every day.
Lead safety, please, in yourlaboratory.
(16:25):
We urge you to do that.
It's so important for thepeople you work with.
You should be a servant leaderand you should be protecting
those who are working in yourlab.
So stay safe and stay safeeveryone.
And If you, if you want fiveminutes with us, let us know.
We'll be glad to help.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
We are the lab safety gurus, dance gun Joe and Sean
Kaufman.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
Thank you for letting us do lab safety together.
Welcome to the Lab Safety Guru's Podcast.
I'm Dan Scungio.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
And I'm Sean Cawthon, and together we're providing
safety insights for thoseworking in laboratory settings.
Doing safetytogether.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Sean, it is great to be back talking with you Today.
I want to talk about somethingthat is kind of a broad topic.
The title of the topic I wantto talk about is 5 Minutes with
a Lab Leader.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Well, that's aokay.
Well, do you mind if I startwith a question?
Yeah, please do.
How do you define a leader?
I think that's where we got tostart.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Okay, you just threw me way off.
That's a way off topic.
No, it's not really.
What is a lab leader?
Is it the lab manager?
Is it the director?
Is it the medical director?
Is it the PI?
Is it the professor?
Is it the?
What is a lab manager?
Or is itor a lab leader?
Is it somebody who's in chargeof a certain section of the lab?
Speaker 2 (01:09):
That's a good question when I think of a lab
leader, go ahead.
Oh no, I was thinking, is it aposition of authority?
I mean that's.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Yeah, what do you think?
Yeah, it doesn't have to be so.
In my career in the clinicallab, I will watch people who are
working in the lab who are notin official leadership roles,
and I'll watch to see whether ornot they own their job.
And when they start to showownership, they take ownership,
they go above and beyond.
(01:36):
Then I start to think, hmm,this is a leader in their group
and they're going to be a futureleader in title before too long
, because I'm going to mentorthem, I'm going to keep them
going on their trajectory.
So being a leader can becancome with an official title, or
(01:58):
maybe it doesn't.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Yeah.
What I wonder is if we were ina classroom, dan, which you and
I both love if we were out thereand we were to say alright, how
many of you have seen someonewho has a leadership position
but is not acting like a leader?
How many hands, yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
I know how many hands would go up, dan Both of mine
are up right now.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
I'll tell you what we have?
A pandemic of absenteeleadership.
I mean, we really do.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Leadership.
Absenteeism is huge.
So that's one of the reasons Iwanted to talk about this today,
because I have worked withseveral different laboratory
leaders.
I'm a lab safety officer.
That is my job, and sometimeswhen I work with a lab leader
and they support lab safety, itmakes my job so easy.
The lab looks great, things aregoing well, but you know, I have
(02:52):
oversight in my job of over 20laboratories and that means 20
different official leaders,managers, whatever and to think
that they would all have thesame level of support for safety
, that's just not reality.
So when I talk about somethinglike five minutes with a lab
(03:12):
leader, I'm like trying to talkto somebody who's going to be
able to influence the safetyculture in the laboratory.
But here's something else Ialways teach, sean I teach this
to everybody in my consultingbusiness and that is if you're a
leader, you better be leadinglab safety, but if your leader
(03:33):
is not somebody who supports labsafety, this is what you can do
to make a difference for safetyin your laboratory.
I have to teach both, becausethat is the reality Leadership
is absent or they're notsupporting lab safety in so many
labs.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Well, I mean, I can back up everything you're saying
by just reminding people whohave children.
I mean, look, your house is asorganized as how engaged the
parents are.
If you're engaged in yourchildren's lives, then your
children are going to be justfine, but if you're not, then
(04:08):
the children are going to losetrack, they're going to lose
their focus, they're going tolose their ways, and so, when
you look at it, leadership it'sa human function.
We see it with parents, we seeit with coaches, on teams.
Dan, the reality is is howengaged leadership is is a huge
(04:29):
factor in how well safety isgoing to be implemented
throughout the organization.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
So, sean, where do you give grace when you need to?
I always try to think of theperson and all that they have to
do.
And people do so much damage totheir lab safety culture.
Some leaders damage it so badlythey don't intend to.
They're, you know, running intothe lab, they've got an
emergency, they have to talk tosomebody in the lab, and so they
(05:00):
run in there.
They don't notice Johnny'schewing gum.
They don't notice Jane doesn'thave a lab coat on and they
really need to talk to Sharonabout something they do, and
they run back in their office.
Now they didn't intend to dothat.
Their plate is full, they'rebusy, but by not noticing those
safety issues and not sayinganything about them.
They just did so much damage totheir safety culture
(05:23):
unintentionally, so I try togive them grace, because I've
been a laboratory manager, Iknow what it's like to have so
many things in your plate and Ihave seen safety issues like PPE
issues and I always note it inmy head.
You know what?
I think I'm going to addressthat later because there's a
bigger issue.
Right now.
This person's wearing meshsneakers, but I really got to
fix the schedule and I need themon my side.
(05:46):
Right now I can't be talking tothem about their sneakers.
I sort of understand that,having been in that position.
But what do you do?
Where do you draw the line?
Speaker 2 (05:56):
This is, yeah, this is how do you make?
Speaker 1 (05:58):
sure that safety is always on your plate.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Well, this is tough.
I think the example that youprovided is a very challenging
one, because you're almostexpecting a human being to be
fully aware of the environmentand the staff within the
environment, and if they're not,if their awareness levels
aren't there, then we evaluatetheir leadership skills and
(06:24):
capabilities.
On that and I know you're notalluding to that, but you're
right, sometimes that can happen.
Dan, my idea of safetyleadership is unique.
It may be different, and what Imean by that is that I believe
that a safety officer has thesensitivity to see the things
(06:47):
that you're talking about.
So, for example, I was at awedding once and there was an
entomologist who was there and Iwas outside and this
entomologist was talking aboutwhether or not I heard the
crickets.
And I said, yeah, I hear thecrickets.
And the entomologist said doyou know?
There's like 60 differentcrickets and I'm like what are
you talking about?
I hear a cricket and they'relike no, no, no, these are
different crickets.
(07:08):
And it's like that individual'sbeen trained to actually listen
to the differences.
A safety officer has beentrained to detect potential
risks in the lab, and so when Ithink of leadership, laboratory
leadership I think of the safetyprofessional being able to say,
hey, we've got concerns, and ifthe staff in the lab don't
(07:30):
listen to the safety officer,the leadership comes down and
makes them listen.
The leadership comes down andsupports and backs up safety.
The leadership demonstrates acommitment to safety not just
with words but with actions, andso that's kind of.
I believe everybody candemonstrate leadership qualities
(07:51):
.
But a leader, like a child, canact like a parent, but in the
end a parent still is going tohave to be a parent, and so I
believe everyone within a labhas to demonstrate leadership
qualities.
Meaning, if it's only going totake, for example, dan and I
don't want to dominate this butif someone's eating a chicken
biscuit in the lab and there arefive people watching this
(08:15):
person eat it and it takes thesafety officer to come in and
say you shouldn't be eating achicken biscuit, we have a lack
of leadership quality in the lab.
So it's those other five peopleshould be saying you shouldn't
be eating a chicken biscuit inthe lab.
So to me, leadership is theforce that holds people
(08:38):
accountable to the expectationof the organization, and
everybody else must haveleadership qualities, but
leadership is critical forsafety.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
It is, and that's why , if I had five minutes with a
lab leader who is in aleadership position, I'd be
having a conversation with themabout that and asking are they
supporting safety in the waythat they should?
In that way, because I see thata lot.
I'm a lab safety officer.
I'll walk into a laboratory andI'll see a vendor working on an
(09:11):
analyzer, trying to fix it, andthey're not wearing a lab coat.
So I immediately walk up tothem and I say what size lab
coat can I get you?
Because that kind of astatement automatically tells
them okay, I have to be wearinga lab coat, there's no question
about it.
They tell me their size andwhen I bring it to them, I
apologize to them, like I'msorry that nobody else in the
lab who is watching you do thiswork offered you PPE.
(09:33):
That's on us, and I say it loudenough usually when other
people are around in the lab,because I want them to
understand that should be ourculture.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
What a beautiful yeah , what a beautiful yeah, and
often it's sad that I have to dothat Well it's a beautiful
approach, though, Dan.
I mean really it's a beautifulapproach because there is no
option given.
It's almost like if you wantyour child to wear shorts for
the day, you say, what colorshorts do you want to wear, and
the child doesn't even know,because they've got some type of
control.
So now it's a beautifulapproach.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
It really is.
Yeah, I wish it would work forother kinds of PPE and other
safety issues.
I'm trying to find that samepowerful culture statement that
there's no choice for otherthings, so maybe we could have a
podcast about that one day tocome up with some other good
ideas.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Absolutely.
If I had five minutes with aleader and I do, I mean, and the
work that I do I am veryfortunate I get to talk to
several leaders of large scaleoperations.
One of the greatest returns ofinvestment in safety, dan, is
leadership presence on the frontline.
So if I had five minutes with alaboratory leader, I would say
(10:40):
get out, get to the front line,talk to your staff, ask them are
you having any safetychallenges?
Are you having any concerns?
Do you have any issues?
I mean, literally flatten theorganization by getting out as a
leader and talking to yourfront line staff.
Yeah, what do?
Speaker 1 (10:57):
they call that in high reliability organizations
rounding to influence Leaders.
That's a HRO tool.
But you're not influencingunless you're modeling.
And so if you're a leader andyou're rounding with your staff,
with whoever's in the lab, thenyou need to make sure you're
modeling those safe behaviors.
(11:18):
I'm going to be in the lab coatholding a huddle.
I'm going to be in the labholding a huddle.
Put on a lab coat.
I'm going to be doing some workwhere I'm at the counter and
I'm going to be touching somethings.
Put on some gloves and a labcoat.
You don't model the behavior.
Wear the correct shoes, wearthe correct pants and the lab.
I was performing an inspectionin a lab and I was finding a lot
(11:38):
of safety issues.
And the safety officer was withme and she turned to me and she
was very upset and she said Dan, why aren't people doing the
right thing in this lab?
And I looked at her and I saidare you often in these labs as
the safety officer?
And she said yeah, and I said,ok, but today you're wearing
complete pants and mesh sneakers.
(11:58):
What is the message you'resending?
You're walking through all thelabs in clothes that aren't even
acceptable in a laboratory.
So, modeling, if you're goingto round to influence, make sure
you're modeling to model theright behaviors, model the use
of PPE and engineering controls,whatever it is you need to be
doing as a leader Also, too.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
What I'm hoping, dan, is that maybe somewhere out
there, somebody listening tothis may say maybe the leader at
my organization could benefitfrom this podcast, and if
anybody receives something likethat, I'm hoping that they also
leaders can promotepsychological safety, meaning I
want leaders and organizationsto promote difficult
(12:41):
conversations.
There are so many times, dan,that I hear people say hey, sean
, I, our leaders, are unengaged.
They don't even engage like Ihave to be.
I feel like I have to be apolice officer and I keep
reminding people if you'resafety, you're not a police
officer.
Your job is to say to someone Iam witnessing things that are
(13:03):
or a hazard, and I'mcommunicating with you about
those things.
I'm hoping that you choose tohear, do or respect what I'm
saying.
But a lot of people will say no,it's human nature, dan.
I perceive this risk to bedifferently.
I don't see this as a risk.
I don't see jumping out of aplane with a parachute as a risk
.
I don't see handling apoisonous snake at a risk.
(13:23):
I would say that's crazy.
But they don't see that it'shuman nature to have different
risk perceptions and it's alsohuman nature to have different
risk tolerances, an organizationright protocols to, to control
for that.
And so I would say that youknow, a safety officer's job is
to identify hazard andcommunicate it and hope that
staff Choose to adhere to it andif they don't, then they have
(13:47):
to turn to leadership to getthat assistance.
So I hope leaders promote apsychologically safe culture, a
culture where Anybody can havedifficult conversations, even
when they disagree.
They can bring those in those,those conversations to the
forefront and, you know,sometimes even just agree to
disagree.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Yeah, and I would say to any anybody who's a safety
leader out there, and no matterwhat position you officially
have, if you have questionsabout how to deal with an issue,
how to deal with a particularissue, how to support a certain
safety issue, how to introduceit or how to talk to somebody
About that, please feel free topick up the phone or email Sean
(14:30):
or myself.
We will both be glad to talk toyou about this issue and be
able to help you with that.
There are ways to do that.
There are good ways to do it,there are bad ways to do it, but
you don't want to ignore it andnot be a leader of safety in
your laboratory.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Well, dan, I used to teach, we, we ran, I developed,
I was the founder of theleadership Institute for
biosafety professionals Manyyears.
I don't know if you knew that,but I, we ran that program for
many years and we even joinedAPSA and delivering that program
.
But one thing we do at thebeginning of each of those
programs, stan, is we'd have allthe staff write their
(15:08):
leadership statements, and whatwe would do if you wanted to
write a leadership, if anyoneout there wants to be a leader
in safety, to write a leadershipstatement, you just take leads
L, because you know leaders leador leads LE AGS, and you find a
word for each, a verb for each,for each letter.
(15:28):
So, for example, dan, mine is aleader listens, a leader
empathizes With those they serve, a leader adapts to the
environment.
A leader demonstrates, like yousaid, okay, and a leader serves.
That's my S.
So my, my leadership statementis I will, or my commitment is I
(15:50):
will listen, empathize, adapt,demonstrate and serve.
And you can change any of thoseletters to whatever you want.
But that's kind of how you candevelop your leadership
statement, just some easyexercise that you can do.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Yep, that is beautiful and I think if you're
listening out there, that issomething you should do so you
can figure out what that is foryou.
Write it down, come up with it,just massage a little bit, make
it right for you and put it onthe, on the on the board behind
you so that you can see it andremember that and be reminded of
that every day.
Lead safety, please, in yourlaboratory.
(16:25):
We urge you to do that.
It's so important for thepeople you work with.
You should be a servant leaderand you should be protecting
those who are working in yourlab.
So stay safe and stay safeeveryone.
And If you, if you want fiveminutes with us, let us know.
We'll be glad to help.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
We are the lab safety gurus, dance gun Joe and Sean
Kaufman.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
Thank you for letting us do lab safety together.
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