April 5, 2024 • 16 mins
When the ground shakes beneath a lab, every second counts. Join us, your Lab Safety Gurus, Dan Scungio and Sean Kaufman, as we dissect the thrilling, yet essential topic of laboratory evacuations, sparked by New Jersey's unexpected seismic stir. Through vivid recollections of the Virginia earthquake, we'll bring you eye-opening insights on the necessity of robust evacuation strategies, including horizontal and zonal methods, tailored for an array of exigencies. Encounter the gripping narrative of a BSL-4 lab where the blare of a fire alarm met with hesitation, a stark reminder of the pressing need for clear communication when every moment is critical.
With infectious patients and biohazards thick in the lab air, the right preparation can mean the difference between chaos and control. In this session, we underscore the life-or-death importance of swift, guided escapes and the life-saving potential of self-decontamination backpacks. Dive into the mechanics of executing focused drills that confront the formidable task of evacuating highly infectious patients. Alongside Sean and me, saturate yourself in the strategies that fortify lab staff to tackle any emergency with decisive action, fortifying everyone's safety. It's a masterclass in laboratory emergency response, illuminating the path to safety for those on the frontlines of science.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Lab Safety Gurus Podcast.
I'm Dan Scungio.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
And I'm Sean Kaufman, and together we're providing
safety insights for thoseworking in laboratory settings,
doing safety together.
So, Dan, this morning, literally, I'm on another podcast.
I'm doing a podcast for one ofthe clients that I'm working
with and we do a podcast withinthe organization.
(00:27):
And as I was interviewing theindividual doing the podcast, up
in New York, a person says tome I think we're having an
earthquake and I'm like in NewYork.
They said yeah, and as I'mlooking at the news right now,
rare magnitude 4.8 earthquakestrikes New Jersey.
(00:48):
Shaking fell across thenortheast.
That's breaking news right now.
And, yeah, believe it or not.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
I had no idea.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
And so today, what I'd like to talk about, and this
time, is laboratory evacuations.
What do you do to ensurecontainment when the lab has to
be evacuated?
Now, I've got lots of stories,but I'm going to let you start
right now.
You tell me your thoughts, whatdo you do?
Because I've got lots ofstories on this one.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
That's a hard one and it depends on the reason you're
evacuating.
So that's I.
Just.
The earthquake story just gaveme the chills of.
You know, in Virginia we don'tget earthquakes, but we happen
to have one and I think it wascentered in Washington DC.
This goes back maybe I don'tknow eight, nine years.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait wait.
Hold on one sec now, remember,I told you I had stories.
Yeah, let me tell you a story,because you mentioned it All
right here's my story.
You ready, and it's hard tobelieve, but Jacqueline can
attest to this you ready, okay,we are at George Mason
University in Manassas, virginia, and it is just about lunchtime
(02:03):
and I say to people, becausewe're literally doing emergency
response in high containmentlabs George Mason has a heck of
a beautiful lab in Manassas,virginia and I say listen, we
have to talk about earthquakesand everybody in the room, dan,
laughed and I said no, listen,y'all are on a fault.
When I did a natural riskassessment for emergencies,
(02:27):
you're on a fault.
And they laughed and I saidwell, this is what you do if
there's an earthquake.
This is how we evacuate.
These are the things you lookfor.
They laughed.
They laughed my wife and I youknow, jacqueline, of course we
went to Chili's and we'resitting at Chili's and we've
ordered our appetizer for lunch.
And Jacqueline, sometimes whenshe gets nervous, dan, she'll,
(02:49):
you know, she'll shake her leg.
Well, the table starts shakingand I look at her.
I say are you nervous orsomething.
She goes, it's not me.
And then the dishes in the backfall over and the earthquake
that you're talking about yeahthat earthquake.
We were at George MasonUniversity talking about
earthquakes a half an hourbefore that happened and when I
(03:12):
got back from lunch they werelike you have to be the messiah
or something.
How did you know that was goingto happen?
I said, well, I, you know, Ihave connections.
I arranged it for training.
But that is a true story, dan,true story, you know I am a lab
safety officer for hospitals.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
We're in hospital labs Almost all of our labs in
my organization.
They're either in the basementor they're on the first floor.
And that day I happened to bein an office building across the
street from our main hospital,on the ninth floor.
That's when the earthquake hitand I wasn't sure what was
happening.
I thought a helicopter hit thebuilding.
(03:49):
It was swaying and I wasn't,you know, I just didn't have my
bearings, having never been inan earthquake before, and I
looked up at the chandeliersswinging side to side and I
thought what on earth is goingon?
And it wasn't until a fewmoments later, when it showed up
on the big TVs in the officesthat there was an earthquake.
So I go out onto the roof ofthe parking garage of this
(04:12):
nine-story building and I lookat the hospital across the
street and everybody'sevacuating the whole hospital.
They don't know what to do.
They've never been in anearthquake before and they are
running outdoors and that's whatthey feel like they need to do.
They've never been in anearthquake before and they are
running outdoors and that's whatthey feel like they need to do.
And I thought, oh, now we'regoing to have to add earthquakes
to our emergency managementevacuation plan because we've
(04:34):
never dealt with one before andnow we've had one.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
I feel for the people in New York today.
In New Jersey I hope peopleresponded well to it.
But evacuation and knowing whento evacuate is key.
Are you in a facility that doeshorizontal evacuations to a
different area?
Do you do zonal evacuationswhere you don't leave unless
(05:01):
your area is announced overheador listed as being too dangerous
to reside in anymore?
There's so many depending onthe facility.
There's so many differentpossible ways that evacuations
might be handled.
But there are good things to doin an evacuation.
(05:23):
There are bad things to do inan evacuation.
It's definitely something forlabs to know about.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Well, I was really.
I have to be honest.
I'll tell you where I got myideas on lab evacuation.
It actually has to do with agentleman by the name of Chief
Burke Chief Paul Burke, Ibelieve, is his name out in
Boston and I was working at theneedle in Boston and this was
(05:49):
before it was up and running andthe Boston Fire Department was
working with the staff there todevelop emergency evacuation
strategies.
And he calls me one day.
He says hey, you know, I'mreally upset.
I said well, what are you upsetabout, chief Burke?
He says listen.
He says I'm having people whowork in a BSL-4 tell me that if
(06:10):
a fire alarm goes off, they'renot going to evacuate.
He goes and that's making meupset.
I said well, chief Burke, Itried to explain to him.
I said Chief Burke, listen, ifyou're doing an acropsy on an
Ebola-infected monkey andsomebody's popped popcorn in a
microwave and it's caused thefire alarm to go off, it
(06:33):
actually is an increased risk tohave people evacuate as a
result of a fire alarm than tostay and do their work.
And Chief Burke said Sean, sean,you're not hearing me.
And I said no, chief Burke,tell me what's going on.
He says I'm not asking peopleto jump out of a 50-story
building when a fire alarm goesoff.
That's not what I'm asking.
He says I'm just asking them toget ready to move if we need
(06:54):
them to move.
And that's when I realized thatthere's a gap that exists
between emergency responders andhigh containment or laboratory
staff.
And that's when we developedwhat we call the red, yellow and
green evacuation strategies.
And this is what I believe thatlaboratory staff need to be
prepared for Three differenttypes of evacuations.
(07:15):
So, yeah, I mean, I thinkyou've heard about these.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
I've heard of it.
It is not something that's usedin some of the organizations
that I've dealt with, but I'dcertainly like to know more
about it.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Well, in a green evacuation, it's just something
like we had described.
Maybe somebody has poppedpopcorn, smoke has gone.
It's basically a fire alarmgoes off and where you're at,
you don't see any flames, youdon't see any smoke.
So obviously, what we wouldlike for you to do is call a
central office Hopefullysomebody would have you'd have a
(07:51):
central office that's being run24-7 that would be able to pick
up the phone and give youguidance.
But if they, if you call thatnumber and they say yes, we want
you to evacuate using a greenstrategy.
It's simply securing whatyou're working with.
You're doffing your personalprotective equipment, like you
normally would, and you'reevacuating the area and then
(08:14):
you're logging and reporting theincident when you come back.
That's what we call a greenevacuation.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
What do you think?
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Yeah, I'm familiar with that type of evacuation
different terminology.
But, yeah, that makes sense,that makes total sense for a
laboratory.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
A yellow evacuation is, let's say, that someone goes
unconscious, or let's say thatsomebody has a serious injury,
or let's say an earthquakeshakes and the way that you
enter the lab is blocked and youhave to go out of the lab in a
different way.
A yellow evacuation is what wecall a modified evacuation
(08:54):
strategy, meaning we're notfollowing our traditional SOPs
but we are doing everything wecan to ensure containment as we
evacuate the lab, meaning we'releaving our PPE behind.
We're making sure that what wework with in the lab stays in
the lab even though we'reevacuating the lab.
Does that make sense, dan?
(09:15):
Yes, yes.
So even if somebody isunconscious in high containment,
we teach people to take theirpersonal protective equipment
off and move them into an areathat is outside of containment
so that they can be managed orthey can be treated by medical
staff that show up on site.
To leave the lab in a differentway, you would remove your
(09:43):
gloves and your gear and keep itinside the lab, making sure
that, again, your ensuringcontainment is not breached as a
result of your evacuation okayall right, you ready for red?
Speaker 1 (09:52):
makes sense.
Yes, I'm ready get out.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
You have a.
You have a.
Listen.
You have a active shooter.
Uh, you have somebody that'scome in the lab and is is
hitting people with things orthreatening people.
You feel like your life is atrisk.
This is where containment isnot kept.
This is where you get out ofthe laboratory right away.
This is where you havedesignated areas and a
(10:16):
designated evacuation route sothat you're not intermingling
with other people.
You don't have protectionbecause you're wearing
potentially contaminated PPE.
This is also where, dan, whenyou have an earthquake, having
backpacks near exit doors thatare full of what you would need
for a good decon, like a tarp,biohazard bags, hand sanitizers,
(10:39):
extra PPE so that people couldgo to a designated area and
decon potentially contaminatedPPE.
That is what we call a redevacuation when your life is at
risk and you get out, there is acontainment breach potentially,
but you get out right away.
Your laboratory staff, in myopinion, should be trained for
green, yellow and redevacuations.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
What are your thoughts?
Yeah, 100%.
There are a couple other thingsI would add to that.
Yeah, you need to have adesignated.
If you're going outside outsideof the facility as part of your
evacuation, you need to have adesignated meeting place and all
laboratory staff, from whateverparticular laboratory you're in
, need to meet at that place.
(11:23):
So if I'm in the cafeteria ofthe building and I hear an
announcement overhead laboratory, second floor evacuation I need
to leave the cafeteria and headover to that designated meeting
space because I don't want themsending rescue workers in to
find me.
Hopefully somebody's got youknow.
If you're working in a placewhere there's a schedule,
(11:44):
somebody's grabbed the scheduleand somebody's making sure
everybody is accounted for.
That's really important.
When you're evacuating too, youdon't want anybody left behind
and you don't want rescueworkers going in after people
who aren't inside the building.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
I agree 100%.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Yeah, and I always recommend that you have a
primary evacuation route to getto that designated meeting space
and at least one secondaryevacuation route because, like
you said, there could bestructural damage and you might
not be able to use that route toget to your meeting space, to
get out, and sometimes you'vegot to get out, like you said,
in a hurry.
(12:21):
I make sure every employee,every lab employee, walks their
primary evacuation route andtheir secondary every year and I
document that.
That used to be required forCAP accredited clinical
laboratories.
It's no longer a requirement,but I still make it happen and I
(12:41):
recommend everybody that you dothat, because I think that's
part of behavior and musclememory.
If it happens and it's a realemergency you tend to forget
things, but if you've practicedit a couple times, you're going
to remember what to do and whereto go, and that's really
important absolutely one thing.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
one other thing, too, dan, is you know if you are a
research laboratory or alaboratory that has a BSL-3 or a
BSL-4,?
Remember that those areconfined spaces.
So when a fire alarm goes offand there could be a wide
variety of reasons fire alarmsgo off.
Maybe there's an active shooter, maybe it's a shelter in place,
maybe it is a fire, but here'sone of the worst things that you
(13:20):
can do.
Maybe it is a fire, but here'sone of the worst things that you
can do.
If people are in containmenthigh containment, bsl-3, bsl-4
the worst thing you do isabandon them.
They are on another side of awall, dan.
They have no clue what'shappening in the building, and
if they have a number to calland nobody's there to pick it up
, they don't know whether tostay or go, and that could.
(13:41):
I've talked to severalscientists where this has
happened and that can be anextremely scary situation.
No matter what, if you have aBSL-3 or BSL-4 lab, you better
have somebody on the other endof a line whether it's a phone
call or a radio that can givethem guidance when an emergency
occurs Exactly that can givethem guidance when an emergency
(14:02):
occurs.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Exactly, yeah, in our highly infectious disease lab,
which is just, you know,basically it's a patient room
that converts to a lab when weneed it, we use an intercom
system to communicate with thosewho are inside.
But we also recently talkedabout evacuation and what we
would do if we were dealing withsome Ebola specimens and
suddenly there's a fire in thelaboratory.
(14:23):
Fires are rare in the lab,although they happen more often
than people probably think, butif it did happen this is what we
were talking about they wouldhave to evacuate and get out to
save themselves.
Containment would not be aconsideration at that time if
something like that shouldhappen.
So we figured out an evacuationroute for them.
(14:47):
There's a quick way to get themoutside and they have to stay
isolated outside where they are.
But, yeah, they have to makesure that there's somebody
guiding them to do that whenit's necessary to do it.
You don't want to leave themalone or just get hurt.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Two things I mean.
Two things I would add to that,dan, is get them a backpack for
decon that they can grab on theway out of that exit.
That way they can deconthemselves outside.
And the second thing I wouldrecommend is, if you're going to
do that drill in the lab, do itwith a patient that's highly
infectious, because how are yougoing to get that patient out of
a hospital when an emergencyhappens?
Speaker 1 (15:25):
And that I mean, anyway, the lab bonfire.
They're right down the hallfrom the patient room, so that's
a problem.
There you go, there you go.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
All right.
Well, hey again, dan, it'sgreat talking to you.
Thank you so much.
And, ladies and gentlemen, justremember, you know, when you're
looking at laboratoryevacuations, there could be
several different reasons, asDan pointed out, several reasons
.
But if you can prepare yourlaboratory staff to evacuate for
a wide variety of those bycategorizing them maybe it is a
(15:53):
green, yellow, red.
Whatever your organizationchooses to do, just make sure
that you continue to train andempower your staff to take care
of themselves when an evacuationor when an emergency situation
occurs.
We are the Lab Safety Gurus,Dan Scungio and Sean Kaufman.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
Thank you for letting us do lab safety together.
Welcome to the Lab Safety Gurus Podcast.
I'm Dan Scungio.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
And I'm Sean Kaufman, and together we're providing
safety insights for thoseworking in laboratory settings,
doing safety together.
So, Dan, this morning, literally, I'm on another podcast.
I'm doing a podcast for one ofthe clients that I'm working
with and we do a podcast withinthe organization.
(00:27):
And as I was interviewing theindividual doing the podcast, up
in New York, a person says tome I think we're having an
earthquake and I'm like in NewYork.
They said yeah, and as I'mlooking at the news right now,
rare magnitude 4.8 earthquakestrikes New Jersey.
(00:48):
Shaking fell across thenortheast.
That's breaking news right now.
And, yeah, believe it or not.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
I had no idea.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
And so today, what I'd like to talk about, and this
time, is laboratory evacuations.
What do you do to ensurecontainment when the lab has to
be evacuated?
Now, I've got lots of stories,but I'm going to let you start
right now.
You tell me your thoughts, whatdo you do?
Because I've got lots ofstories on this one.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
That's a hard one and it depends on the reason you're
evacuating.
So that's I.
Just.
The earthquake story just gaveme the chills of.
You know, in Virginia we don'tget earthquakes, but we happen
to have one and I think it wascentered in Washington DC.
This goes back maybe I don'tknow eight, nine years.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait wait.
Hold on one sec now, remember,I told you I had stories.
Yeah, let me tell you a story,because you mentioned it All
right here's my story.
You ready, and it's hard tobelieve, but Jacqueline can
attest to this you ready, okay,we are at George Mason
University in Manassas, virginia, and it is just about lunchtime
(02:03):
and I say to people, becausewe're literally doing emergency
response in high containmentlabs George Mason has a heck of
a beautiful lab in Manassas,virginia and I say listen, we
have to talk about earthquakesand everybody in the room, dan,
laughed and I said no, listen,y'all are on a fault.
When I did a natural riskassessment for emergencies,
(02:27):
you're on a fault.
And they laughed and I saidwell, this is what you do if
there's an earthquake.
This is how we evacuate.
These are the things you lookfor.
They laughed.
They laughed my wife and I youknow, jacqueline, of course we
went to Chili's and we'resitting at Chili's and we've
ordered our appetizer for lunch.
And Jacqueline, sometimes whenshe gets nervous, dan, she'll,
(02:49):
you know, she'll shake her leg.
Well, the table starts shakingand I look at her.
I say are you nervous orsomething.
She goes, it's not me.
And then the dishes in the backfall over and the earthquake
that you're talking about yeahthat earthquake.
We were at George MasonUniversity talking about
earthquakes a half an hourbefore that happened and when I
(03:12):
got back from lunch they werelike you have to be the messiah
or something.
How did you know that was goingto happen?
I said, well, I, you know, Ihave connections.
I arranged it for training.
But that is a true story, dan,true story, you know I am a lab
safety officer for hospitals.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
We're in hospital labs Almost all of our labs in
my organization.
They're either in the basementor they're on the first floor.
And that day I happened to bein an office building across the
street from our main hospital,on the ninth floor.
That's when the earthquake hitand I wasn't sure what was
happening.
I thought a helicopter hit thebuilding.
(03:49):
It was swaying and I wasn't,you know, I just didn't have my
bearings, having never been inan earthquake before, and I
looked up at the chandeliersswinging side to side and I
thought what on earth is goingon?
And it wasn't until a fewmoments later, when it showed up
on the big TVs in the officesthat there was an earthquake.
So I go out onto the roof ofthe parking garage of this
(04:12):
nine-story building and I lookat the hospital across the
street and everybody'sevacuating the whole hospital.
They don't know what to do.
They've never been in anearthquake before and they are
running outdoors and that's whatthey feel like they need to do.
They've never been in anearthquake before and they are
running outdoors and that's whatthey feel like they need to do.
And I thought, oh, now we'regoing to have to add earthquakes
to our emergency managementevacuation plan because we've
(04:34):
never dealt with one before andnow we've had one.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
I feel for the people in New York today.
In New Jersey I hope peopleresponded well to it.
But evacuation and knowing whento evacuate is key.
Are you in a facility that doeshorizontal evacuations to a
different area?
Do you do zonal evacuationswhere you don't leave unless
(05:01):
your area is announced overheador listed as being too dangerous
to reside in anymore?
There's so many depending onthe facility.
There's so many differentpossible ways that evacuations
might be handled.
But there are good things to doin an evacuation.
(05:23):
There are bad things to do inan evacuation.
It's definitely something forlabs to know about.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Well, I was really.
I have to be honest.
I'll tell you where I got myideas on lab evacuation.
It actually has to do with agentleman by the name of Chief
Burke Chief Paul Burke, Ibelieve, is his name out in
Boston and I was working at theneedle in Boston and this was
(05:49):
before it was up and running andthe Boston Fire Department was
working with the staff there todevelop emergency evacuation
strategies.
And he calls me one day.
He says hey, you know, I'mreally upset.
I said well, what are you upsetabout, chief Burke?
He says listen.
He says I'm having people whowork in a BSL-4 tell me that if
(06:10):
a fire alarm goes off, they'renot going to evacuate.
He goes and that's making meupset.
I said well, chief Burke, Itried to explain to him.
I said Chief Burke, listen, ifyou're doing an acropsy on an
Ebola-infected monkey andsomebody's popped popcorn in a
microwave and it's caused thefire alarm to go off, it
(06:33):
actually is an increased risk tohave people evacuate as a
result of a fire alarm than tostay and do their work.
And Chief Burke said Sean, sean,you're not hearing me.
And I said no, chief Burke,tell me what's going on.
He says I'm not asking peopleto jump out of a 50-story
building when a fire alarm goesoff.
That's not what I'm asking.
He says I'm just asking them toget ready to move if we need
(06:54):
them to move.
And that's when I realized thatthere's a gap that exists
between emergency responders andhigh containment or laboratory
staff.
And that's when we developedwhat we call the red, yellow and
green evacuation strategies.
And this is what I believe thatlaboratory staff need to be
prepared for Three differenttypes of evacuations.
(07:15):
So, yeah, I mean, I thinkyou've heard about these.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
I've heard of it.
It is not something that's usedin some of the organizations
that I've dealt with, but I'dcertainly like to know more
about it.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Well, in a green evacuation, it's just something
like we had described.
Maybe somebody has poppedpopcorn, smoke has gone.
It's basically a fire alarmgoes off and where you're at,
you don't see any flames, youdon't see any smoke.
So obviously, what we wouldlike for you to do is call a
central office Hopefullysomebody would have you'd have a
(07:51):
central office that's being run24-7 that would be able to pick
up the phone and give youguidance.
But if they, if you call thatnumber and they say yes, we want
you to evacuate using a greenstrategy.
It's simply securing whatyou're working with.
You're doffing your personalprotective equipment, like you
normally would, and you'reevacuating the area and then
(08:14):
you're logging and reporting theincident when you come back.
That's what we call a greenevacuation.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
What do you think?
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Yeah, I'm familiar with that type of evacuation
different terminology.
But, yeah, that makes sense,that makes total sense for a
laboratory.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
A yellow evacuation is, let's say, that someone goes
unconscious, or let's say thatsomebody has a serious injury,
or let's say an earthquakeshakes and the way that you
enter the lab is blocked and youhave to go out of the lab in a
different way.
A yellow evacuation is what wecall a modified evacuation
(08:54):
strategy, meaning we're notfollowing our traditional SOPs
but we are doing everything wecan to ensure containment as we
evacuate the lab, meaning we'releaving our PPE behind.
We're making sure that what wework with in the lab stays in
the lab even though we'reevacuating the lab.
Does that make sense, dan?
(09:15):
Yes, yes.
So even if somebody isunconscious in high containment,
we teach people to take theirpersonal protective equipment
off and move them into an areathat is outside of containment
so that they can be managed orthey can be treated by medical
staff that show up on site.
To leave the lab in a differentway, you would remove your
(09:43):
gloves and your gear and keep itinside the lab, making sure
that, again, your ensuringcontainment is not breached as a
result of your evacuation okayall right, you ready for red?
Speaker 1 (09:52):
makes sense.
Yes, I'm ready get out.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
You have a.
You have a.
Listen.
You have a active shooter.
Uh, you have somebody that'scome in the lab and is is
hitting people with things orthreatening people.
You feel like your life is atrisk.
This is where containment isnot kept.
This is where you get out ofthe laboratory right away.
This is where you havedesignated areas and a
(10:16):
designated evacuation route sothat you're not intermingling
with other people.
You don't have protectionbecause you're wearing
potentially contaminated PPE.
This is also where, dan, whenyou have an earthquake, having
backpacks near exit doors thatare full of what you would need
for a good decon, like a tarp,biohazard bags, hand sanitizers,
(10:39):
extra PPE so that people couldgo to a designated area and
decon potentially contaminatedPPE.
That is what we call a redevacuation when your life is at
risk and you get out, there is acontainment breach potentially,
but you get out right away.
Your laboratory staff, in myopinion, should be trained for
green, yellow and redevacuations.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
What are your thoughts?
Yeah, 100%.
There are a couple other thingsI would add to that.
Yeah, you need to have adesignated.
If you're going outside outsideof the facility as part of your
evacuation, you need to have adesignated meeting place and all
laboratory staff, from whateverparticular laboratory you're in
, need to meet at that place.
(11:23):
So if I'm in the cafeteria ofthe building and I hear an
announcement overhead laboratory, second floor evacuation I need
to leave the cafeteria and headover to that designated meeting
space because I don't want themsending rescue workers in to
find me.
Hopefully somebody's got youknow.
If you're working in a placewhere there's a schedule,
(11:44):
somebody's grabbed the scheduleand somebody's making sure
everybody is accounted for.
That's really important.
When you're evacuating too, youdon't want anybody left behind
and you don't want rescueworkers going in after people
who aren't inside the building.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
I agree 100%.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Yeah, and I always recommend that you have a
primary evacuation route to getto that designated meeting space
and at least one secondaryevacuation route because, like
you said, there could bestructural damage and you might
not be able to use that route toget to your meeting space, to
get out, and sometimes you'vegot to get out, like you said,
in a hurry.
(12:21):
I make sure every employee,every lab employee, walks their
primary evacuation route andtheir secondary every year and I
document that.
That used to be required forCAP accredited clinical
laboratories.
It's no longer a requirement,but I still make it happen and I
(12:41):
recommend everybody that you dothat, because I think that's
part of behavior and musclememory.
If it happens and it's a realemergency you tend to forget
things, but if you've practicedit a couple times, you're going
to remember what to do and whereto go, and that's really
important absolutely one thing.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
one other thing, too, dan, is you know if you are a
research laboratory or alaboratory that has a BSL-3 or a
BSL-4,?
Remember that those areconfined spaces.
So when a fire alarm goes offand there could be a wide
variety of reasons fire alarmsgo off.
Maybe there's an active shooter, maybe it's a shelter in place,
maybe it is a fire, but here'sone of the worst things that you
(13:20):
can do.
Maybe it is a fire, but here'sone of the worst things that you
can do.
If people are in containmenthigh containment, bsl-3, bsl-4
the worst thing you do isabandon them.
They are on another side of awall, dan.
They have no clue what'shappening in the building, and
if they have a number to calland nobody's there to pick it up
, they don't know whether tostay or go, and that could.
(13:41):
I've talked to severalscientists where this has
happened and that can be anextremely scary situation.
No matter what, if you have aBSL-3 or BSL-4 lab, you better
have somebody on the other endof a line whether it's a phone
call or a radio that can givethem guidance when an emergency
occurs Exactly that can givethem guidance when an emergency
(14:02):
occurs.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Exactly, yeah, in our highly infectious disease lab,
which is just, you know,basically it's a patient room
that converts to a lab when weneed it, we use an intercom
system to communicate with thosewho are inside.
But we also recently talkedabout evacuation and what we
would do if we were dealing withsome Ebola specimens and
suddenly there's a fire in thelaboratory.
(14:23):
Fires are rare in the lab,although they happen more often
than people probably think, butif it did happen this is what we
were talking about they wouldhave to evacuate and get out to
save themselves.
Containment would not be aconsideration at that time if
something like that shouldhappen.
So we figured out an evacuationroute for them.
(14:47):
There's a quick way to get themoutside and they have to stay
isolated outside where they are.
But, yeah, they have to makesure that there's somebody
guiding them to do that whenit's necessary to do it.
You don't want to leave themalone or just get hurt.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Two things I mean.
Two things I would add to that,dan, is get them a backpack for
decon that they can grab on theway out of that exit.
That way they can deconthemselves outside.
And the second thing I wouldrecommend is, if you're going to
do that drill in the lab, do itwith a patient that's highly
infectious, because how are yougoing to get that patient out of
a hospital when an emergencyhappens?
Speaker 1 (15:25):
And that I mean, anyway, the lab bonfire.
They're right down the hallfrom the patient room, so that's
a problem.
There you go, there you go.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
All right.
Well, hey again, dan, it'sgreat talking to you.
Thank you so much.
And, ladies and gentlemen, justremember, you know, when you're
looking at laboratoryevacuations, there could be
several different reasons, asDan pointed out, several reasons
.
But if you can prepare yourlaboratory staff to evacuate for
a wide variety of those bycategorizing them maybe it is a
(15:53):
green, yellow, red.
Whatever your organizationchooses to do, just make sure
that you continue to train andempower your staff to take care
of themselves when an evacuationor when an emergency situation
occurs.
We are the Lab Safety Gurus,Dan Scungio and Sean Kaufman.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
Thank you for letting us do lab safety together.
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