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August 27, 2024 • 16 mins

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How do laboratories act as frontline warriors during health crises like COVID-19? Join us, Dan Scungio and Sean Kaufman, as we explore the indispensable role these labs play in diagnosing diseases, guiding treatments, and ensuring public safety. Drawing from our own experiences and professional insights, we discuss the procedural challenges and emotional pressures faced by laboratory professionals, emphasizing the urgent need for specialized training in handling dangerous substances.

We also spotlight the unsung heroes working in public health and academic labs. These professionals are not only researching new treatments and diagnostics but are also preparing for threats to our food and environment. From developing life-saving vaccines to conducting groundbreaking experiments, their contributions are vital. Tune in as we celebrate the dedication and hard work of these laboratory scientists, whose efforts are crucial in the fight against emerging infectious diseases.

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Episode Transcript

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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Lab Safety Gurus Podcast.
I'm Dan Scungio.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
And I'm Sean Kaufman, and together we're providing
safety insights for thoseworking in laboratory settings,
doing safety together.
Hi, dan, welcome back for ourAugust podcast.

Speaker 1 (00:19):
How have you been, sean Kaufman?
It is outstanding to be withyou again.
I have been running arounddoing presentations when I work.
We have a huge accreditationinspection next week.
Eight hospitals and 20 labs aregoing to get accredited
re-accredited, so I'm reallyexcited about that.
And then in September, avacation.

Speaker 2 (00:43):
I can't wait.
Oh man, what about you?
I just got back from myvacation.
It was good.
The kids started down here inGeorgia, they started school.
We have a daughter who's asenior, and also, too, I did get
caught up.
I've been traveling around too,but I got caught up in that
whole Delta mess, so that wasnot very fun.
You know what I think we needto do?
Maybe next month response.
Maybe that's something we couldtalk a little bit more about,

(01:03):
like the psychology of anemergency, because it really
shook me up a lot more than Ithought it would.
So it's very interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:11):
Yeah, that's a good topic.

Speaker 2 (01:16):
Well, hey, today let's talk a little bit.
Covid is making a rebound, atleast that's what we're hearing
in the news, and you know aboutme, I don't really necessarily
trust the news, but I do seethat there are people getting
sick.
And so, Dan, today I want totalk about emerging infectious
diseases and what laboratoriesdo.
Why do they matter and why dowe need them?
Because, quite honestly, Ithink some people question
whether or not we needlaboratories, and I think we can

(01:38):
break it down pretty simplyhere what do you think?

Speaker 1 (01:43):
Yeah, the laboratory in my world.
I work a lot in clinicallaboratory arena and we tend to
shoot ourselves in the foot allthe time.
We don't respect ourselvesenough and we don't talk about
ourselves enough.
There's a laboratory in everyhospital in the country in the
world.
A hospital can't even operatewithout a laboratory.

(02:05):
We provide 70% or more of thediagnoses to the physicians, but
people really don't know whathappens in labs.
And that's even more true inthe world of research.
And of course, safety expandsinto all of those realms.
But you're right, I think theworld needs to know more about

(02:25):
what goes on in all of theselaboratories.

Speaker 2 (02:27):
Well, I mean, we have a podcast and we're the Lab
Safety Gurus, and so let's look,let's break this down very
simply, because we want peoplewho are listening to us.
Obviously, those who do listento us typically tend to have a
background in some type oflaboratory, I would assume.
I don't think random people are, you know, who are looking to
fish or wanting to learn how tobowl better, or coming to the
lab safety gurus.

(02:48):
But I will tell you this weshould be very proud, like you
said.
One thing I've got a harp on.
You know, I don't ever mean toput down healthcare
professionals.
I really don't, and you knowthat, dan.
I love doctors, I love nurses,but what bothers me is that the
real superhero cape belongs on alaboratory professional in
hospitals.
Certainly, because we takesamples from patients and the

(03:10):
doctors and nurses are guessinguntil we confirm what they have
in laboratories and, quitehonestly, that confirmation is
what guides us to a bettertreatment, better care for our
patients.
So the first avenue we'retalking about it.
Let's talk a little bit.
Let's throw emerging infectiousdiseases in there and talk
about what hospitals will see Ifanother epidemic or biological

(03:31):
event occurs.
We're going to get individualsthat start coming into hospitals
that are sick and we'll beflying blind, and that's where
these hospital laboratories aregoing to be quite essential in
trying to determine what it isthat we're up against.
Dan, I know you work inhospitals and with clinical
laboratories, but what do youthink?

(03:57):
I mean, what would an emerginginfection look like for you at a
hospital, when we're startingto get a lot of patients that
are sick, maybe even feverish,and we don't necessarily know
what they're experiencing?
What are your thoughts on that?

Speaker 1 (04:05):
Yeah.
So that certainly takes me backto the pandemic when it first
started to hit and those exactthings that you just described
happened and it affects thelaboratory a lot.
But it also expanded and grewour connection to the public
health laboratories as well.
So in a big system, a hospitalsystem, typically you'll see

(04:27):
like a consolidated microbiologylab and they have a lot of
interaction with the state lab.
Right, that's pretty normal,the state public health lab.
But when a pandemic hits andyou're starting to get samples
at all the hospitals and thestate lab, the public health lab
wants to know hey, can you sendus some stuff?
What are you seeing, what areyou getting?

(04:47):
Then every laboratory starts todeal with a public health lab.
And you know we introduced somany new practices in all of our
laboratories when the pandemicfirst hit, including training
for packaging and shipping,which a lot of people didn't
have, because we were nowstarting to ship Category B
substances from our labs to thestate lab and things like that.

(05:08):
That didn't usually happenbefore.
There was a lot of unknowns.
I can't tell you how many timesI had to talk to our laboratory
staff, pretty much daily, whenthe pandemic first hit and sort
of calm them down and talk about.
Hey, you know what?
We use standard precautionsevery day.
We work with dangerouspathogens every day and we don't

(05:32):
know when exactly we're workingwith them and we need to be
safe when we're working withthem and this is how you do it.
So this is how you're going tocontinue to do it.
But we had some obviously therewere some panicked people at
that time who were hearingstories, watching the news.
The hype was high, if youremember.
It was really high.

Speaker 2 (05:51):
Absolutely, absolutely.
Now, not everyone who works ina lab works in a hospital, so
let's give a shout out to otherforms of laboratories as well.
So, for example, right now, aspeople are listening to this
podcast, as we're creating it,there are scientists dedicated
to creating diagnostic tests, sothey're out there looking for

(06:15):
ways to detect things right, dan.

Speaker 1 (06:18):
Yeah, and the turnaround in those labs is
amazing, sean.
If you could see the innards ofthose research labs where
they're developing.
I had the pleasure of gettinginvited to one last month a
couple of times in Chicago andthe work that they do it's

(06:38):
pretty much top secret.
They don't want anybody knowingwhat they're doing, because
they're a business, they're incompetition, but they're also
working quickly to developtechnology to improve patient
care and when the pandemic hit,the number of tests that came
out rapidly, the diagnosticanalysis that suddenly became

(07:01):
available, was incredible andthe speed at which it was coming
out was incredible.
And they continue to do thatwork to this day.
So, yeah, we definitely need toappreciate those laboratories
as well, and I've got to give ashout-out I mean, I really do.

Speaker 2 (07:21):
We tend to focus a lot on human health, and so
obviously a shout-out to CDC andIH, those folks who are working
on diagnostic countermeasuresfor potential emerging
infectious diseases, but I'vegot to give my shout-out to USDA
and APHIS as well.
Diseases but I got to give myshout out to USDA and APHIS as
well.
These folks are out therelooking for diagnostic packages
and systems for animals, because, remember, it's not just about
human health.
If our animals become unhealthy, our food sources go away.

(07:44):
That goes with plants too.
So a shout out to thosescientists.
Now, another aspect, dan, ofscience is coming up not only
with diagnostics, so that we canidentify those who are sick and
those who are challenged, butalso finding vaccines and cures
and treatments.
Now again, I know the word outthere.

(08:05):
Vaccine is loaded today.
So let me define vaccine forour show.
Dan, you can jump in if youdisagree with this vaccine.
So let me define vaccine forour show.
Dan, you can jump in if youdisagree with this vaccine.
A vaccine is something A thathas demonstrated effectiveness,
meaning it prevents a disease orprevents death or serious
disease, and B it has beendeemed safe for you to take.
Dan, I don't know if you agreewith that definition of vaccine,

(08:26):
but can we define that vaccinefor the show?

Speaker 1 (08:28):
Yep, I think that is a perfect and correct definition
, especially in light ofeverything that's happened in
the last four years.

Speaker 2 (08:36):
I'm staying out of that.
I'm staying out of that.
I'm staying right here.

Speaker 1 (08:41):
That is a safe definition because of all of
that, Absolutely so listen rightnow.

Speaker 2 (08:46):
There are scientists out there that are searching for
vaccines.
They're searching for medicalcare treatments for the next
emerging infectious diseases andeven for existing ones.
They're looking for better waysto treat people, and those
scientists are in laboratoriesright now too.
You got to give a shout out toUSDA ARS.
They're looking for that inanimals.
You got to give a shout outagain to CDC and NIH.

(09:09):
There's scientists that aredoing it there as well.
I don't know Dan any.
You know my overlookinglaboratorians in any way.
I don't want to.
I mean, I know there's plantindividuals that are working for
plant health and agriculture.
There's no doubt whatsoeverthere.
I know we also have someinteresting scientists that work
with insects.

Speaker 1 (09:26):
I know we also have some interesting scientists that
work with insects.
Yeah and right.
Here in Williamsburg we havethe Bush Breweries, which has
its own microbiology lab for abeer manufacturing plant.
There are laboratories in allkinds of nooks and crannies
throughout our country andreally everybody who's doing it
is to keep the public safe.
So definitely we're shoutingout to all of you out there in

(09:49):
any kind of laboratory that youmight work in.

Speaker 2 (09:51):
Yeah, I think you know.
Look, I think it's important.
A lot of people are very, veryscared about science these days.
They hear the issue about thepandemic.
They think, you know, was thissomething that leaked from a lab
?
Was it something that wasintentional, unintentional?
And again, let's not go downthat road.

(10:12):
But science is not somethingthat we should be afraid of.
Science is something that, ifwe stop it, we should be afraid
of meaning the lack of science.
In my opinion and you know, dan, I'm very spiritual, I've
always loved science because Ibelieve science tries to
discover the way that God putthings on this earth.
And again, we don't have to godown that road.
But I love science and I'm abig fan of it and I worry
sometimes when people don'tunderstand what it is that we do

(10:34):
in labs.
Labs get attacked and theselaboratories are quintessential
In the clinical aspect.
Where you work, dan, in ahospital setting.
We definitely need them so thatdoctors and nurses can confirm
their diagnosis of theirpatients and treat their
patients to the best of theirabilities.
We need laboratorians andscientists to look at diagnostic

(10:56):
countermeasures.
We need to know who's sick,who's not sick, where the
disease is, where it's going.
That information that publichealth leans on is critical, and
we need scientists in labsdoing research to discover new
treatments and new ways ofhandling disease.
You know, dan, I'm sitting hereand I'm looking.
We got about four minutes leftand there is one group that we

(11:17):
did overlook.
Can you, can you remember?
he said the public health labs.
Oh, yeah, I mentioned them.
Yeah, we mentioned them, we didwe mentioned them.
Yeah, but we overlooked them.
I mean, what are the roles ofpublic health labs, dan?
What?

Speaker 1 (11:33):
is the role, public health I mean.
They do exactly what the titlesays they keep the public safe.

Speaker 2 (11:38):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (11:39):
But they're doing it in so many ways that I don't
think the general public doesn'trealize it.
But even labs that may not dealwith them on a regular basis
probably don't know what's goingon.
But in the public health labsthey were key during the Ebola
introduction into the UnitedStates back in when was it 2014?

Speaker 2 (12:01):
Yeah, I remember that .

Speaker 1 (12:03):
Yeah, I bet you remember that well, but they
were.

Speaker 2 (12:05):
I remember that.
Yeah, I bet you remember thatwell.

Speaker 1 (12:06):
But they were a key in that I went to so many
different training sessions atdifferent public health labs
because they were the experts.
They knew how to handle it,they knew how to identify it,
they knew how to diagnose.
I mean they were so they justwere the.
They were the leader laboratoryof all the labs in taking care

(12:26):
and making sure that the USpopulation was safe, and I know
that labs do that in othercountries as well.

Speaker 2 (12:33):
Well, I think one thing that public health labs do
, as you said, dan, keeping thepublic safe.
They're also on the lookout forthe next potential natural or
terrorist type of attack,meaning if our food source has
ever attacked it, like a grocerystore or in a certain area, and
we start seeing these massiveoutbreaks of potentially you

(12:55):
know, of potential diseases.
Public health is on there.
They're also, you know, theyhave techniques to ensure that
if anybody's releasing anything,that maybe there's going to be
some detection as well.
So public health laboratoriesdo a tremendous amount to
complement the researchlaboratories, the diagnostic

(13:16):
laboratories, the health carelaboratories.
Public health professionals areon the front line trying to
keep the public health safe, andnot only from naturally
occurring events but also eventsthat could be man-made or
intentional.

Speaker 1 (13:29):
Yeah, and as one of the safety gurus, one of the
things I love about the publichealth labs is they are on the
front lines of figuring out waysto prevent things from harming
laboratory staff and the publicand the environment and patients
, and the environment andpatients.
And they give those tools tothe other labs that they're
working with and they createsome golden rules for safety

(13:54):
that other labs can use, canutilize and can use to keep
their staff safe and they are ahuge resource to other kinds of
labs throughout the country.

Speaker 2 (14:04):
All right.
So let's do a shout-out.
We'll do a shout-out.
If you are working in a publichealth laboratory at state or
local levels, or even at thefederal level, I'm shouting out.
You are a hero.
Okay, dan?
Who are you shouting out to?

Speaker 1 (14:18):
I'm going to shout out to Clinical Labs who again
provide those diagnoses tophysicians without whom
hospitals could not exist.
They are my heroes, as well asother laboratories.
But shout out to those clinicallaboratorians across the land.

Speaker 2 (14:34):
All right, and I'm shouting out to all those that
are in these laboratoriescreating diagnostic
countermeasures to the ickystuff that we have out there, to
those who do it for humans, tothose who do it for humans, to
those who do it for animals, Ishout out to you guys are heroes
.
And Dan, there's one more bigshout out what do you got for me
?

Speaker 1 (14:53):
I'm going to talk about the labs that are creating
tests, and also the academiclabs, sean, because there are
students out there.
They are learning and they arenot.
They're not just learning, theyare working on experiments that
are going to change the world,and that's happening at the
academic level as well.
So a shout out to all of them.
They are key, just like all theother labs we mentioned.

Speaker 2 (15:17):
That could be a podcast, Dan, a podcast for the
up and coming generation ofscientists.
I think that would be a goodone.
One final shout out before weend the podcast to all those
that are developing vaccines andtreatments and drugs, whether
it's for animal health, planthealth or human health.
Thank you.
You all are heroes as well, sothere are shout outs Dan any
final words before we end thisthis month.

Speaker 1 (15:38):
You know that's a huge group of people.
We just talked about, sean, andthey're all working for good.
You mentioned that you'respiritual.
I think I'm here because herein this place and time, because
that's where God wants me to be,but what a work for good that
is that all these people aredoing.
So I really do hope that, ifyou're in those fields, that you

(16:00):
appreciate where you are andwhat you're doing, the good that
you're doing for the world,because we certainly do as well.

Speaker 2 (16:07):
Well, thank you again , Dan, and thank you for those
that are listening to us Sharethis with folks you think would
be interested.
We appreciate you.
We do believe if you're servingin a laboratory, you are
today's heroes serving on thefront line of emerging
infectious diseases.
We are the lab safety gurus,Dan Scungio and Sean Kaufman.

Speaker 1 (16:29):
Thank you for letting us do lab safety together.
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