June 19, 2024 • 64 mins
Welcome back to the world of Westeros! After a long two-year hiatus, "House of the Dragon" returns with a gripping Season 2 premiere that dives straight into the chaos. From intense character developments to shocking plot twists, this episode sets the stage for a thrilling season ahead.
Join us as we discuss the standout moments, including the emotional reunion of Rhaenyra with her son's remains, Daemon's relentless pursuit of vengeance, and Aegon and Aemond's complex dynamics. We also delve into the powerful introduction of Blood and Cheese, whose actions will undoubtedly shape the course of the war.
This episode masterfully balances action and emotion, showcasing the depth and complexity of each character while leaving us eagerly anticipating what's to come. Don't miss our in-depth analysis and predictions for the rest of the season!
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Music.
(00:17):
All right. We're back finally after two years, it feels like.
Actually, it's two years, I think, because they took off a whole year.
It's supposed to be the game House of Dragons Season 2, Episode 1.
Man, it's good to see y'all again, man. This is awesome. This is awesome.
Yes. Good to see you guys. Glad to be back. Nice to see y'all again. in.
(00:40):
All right. So I'm going to go with you first, Bethany. What was your thoughts on this episode?
For episode one, what were your thoughts, your general thoughts?
And then Scott, then I'll go and then we'll dive into it.
General thoughts, loved it. Tight storytelling, jumped right in,
drew me in like I was never gone, right?
(01:01):
So I loved it. 10 out of 10, And 9.8 out of 10.
So I'll leave it at that. Go ahead, Scott. All right, Scott.
I really enjoyed it. I mean, I think I'd probably give it an 8 out of 10.
I thought, particularly compared to some of the Star Wars stuff that we were
kind of talking about off camera, the job that they did as far as really bringing
(01:22):
you into the story and making you invest really initially to kind of get you
excited about the season, kind of get gripping you into the world.
They did an excellent job in that. I mean,
obviously we'll get to it, but the ending was, although it differs from what
we thought it would be, I think they had some legitimate reasons in doing so,
but I thought it was really ambitious the way that they did it and performed it.
(01:44):
And I think that maybe they did so to play a couple angles that may differ from
what the source material is, but still, it's pretty gripping.
But I still, like I said, 8 out of 10, really enjoyed it, was really pleased
with it. It was a breath of fresh air.
I'm going to agree with both of y'all. To me, I didn't know we were going to
get blood and cheese the first episode. I thought maybe third or fourth.
(02:07):
We didn't let y'all. It's been a long time we left you. Let's go dive right into the chaos.
I'm going eight out of 10 as well, Scott. I loved it.
It was a great way to get back into this world and back into understanding.
And if you didn't get a recap before, it kind of set the table of like,
okay, these are the things that happen to remind you, oh, this is what happened before.
(02:29):
All right, I'm ready to go. So I love that way they was able to set that up.
All right, let's jump on in. So we start off with basically,
I mean, with them going to the north.
I mean, that was, I mean, the Cregan Stark kind of thing.
Hey, man, I don't care nobody say the Starks are badasses, man.
And it's just something about our cases.
(02:51):
They walk around. They got on the mink coats.
You know, they just, Jahares is out there all cold.
And he ain't got an auto at the wall. He ain't even got him a regular winter.
He got them all at the wall, super cold.
He ain't never had no temperatures like that in his life.
And he got them all the way there. If you won't, I won't pledge my allegiance
to you. I'm going to take you all.
(03:13):
That's what it felt like. Like, let me know. And it was interesting.
Wrestling and if we if you guys know and some of
the listeners may not know but so cregan stark at this time it
just came out of civil war with his own family so he's already
kind of in a he's already in war mode already he's like look man i only got
like these old castes like in their 50s but they rolling because i gotta replenish
(03:37):
my folks you can get them too you know and maybe i'll come back around after
i see what's going on because we got to recoup and get everything
together in house stark because i just fought my
uncle you know two weeks ago five minutes
five minutes ago and it did did it feel like
a share did it feel like coming home with with the the intro with with cregan
(03:58):
the the voiceover and it's like hey i thought at first it was john stark right
and it felt like coming home and it it was i didn't expect that it was very
unexpected and the dialect,
the inflection and the speak, the verbiage.
(04:19):
And, you know, when they were pulling the stones from the bag and the gentleman
pulled the black stone, right?
It's like, it's not a punishment. It's an honor, right?
And to watch them walk to the wall and to to see the wall, and to see Cregan.
Who we know to be as Cregan, and also J.
(04:41):
Sarah's, I'm sorry, Rainnara's oldest son.
On the wall with him it was a it was like coming home it
was very unexpected i loved it yeah i
mean the the narrate the so again i don't want to go too much into the star
wars stuff but really kind of junk to junk people's way with that story so they
start off with the narration duty of sacrifice and at first we think he's talking
(05:04):
to us the the viewers he's not he's never talking to us at the entire time.
But as they go through it, they show us how he's walking through what that sacrifice of duty is.
And then he goes back and then when he breaks it to the part where he says,
you know, this goes back farther than any oath or any word that was said,
(05:27):
then now we get brought to the fact that he's not talking to us.
He's talking to somebody who is there to try
to elicit said something from him and that
person who's trying to make that request isn't as
keen as he is on how to either
make that request or the gravity of the request he's asking because you know
because he made two things that were really snarky that they were really subtle
(05:50):
but i really appreciate it the first one when he goes he says well yeah at least
you didn't come and threaten me with your dragon you know this is what our ancestors
did and the second time he says do you
think that they built a 700-foot wall of ice to keep out snow and savages?
And so when he makes these points, now, you could also argue that because the
(06:14):
raven comes and now he's notified of his brother's death, that may change the dynamic of it.
But as laid out throughout the show, or at least that part of the show,
it was clear that he was not going to acquiesce as to what the request was.
Was he was going to provide something, but not at all what he came there to get.
And so and whatever he was going to provide was going to be good enough.
(06:36):
I just thought that was really done really eloquently and really subtly.
And it wasn't it wasn't it wasn't a brutish or a show of force.
It was just say, hey, I'm better at this diplomacy thing than you are,
even though you don't see it yet.
And so I thought that was really clever. I really appreciated it.
So I have a question for you all with that, with the with the because they changed
the way that people went to the wall over these years,
(06:58):
because when we get to the present time in general game
of thrones that was only for people that wanted to volunteer
to go or you did something that somebody sent you there
so i'm just i'm just wondering in the timeline when did it change where it was
only violent it's like going to the military like before it was a draft and
now it's volunteer are you in trouble right the only reason that you went to
(07:18):
the wall because remember the wall doesn't have anybody there anymore maybe
because they maybe because everyone was like well we need these people back
because we got so many battles going on we need people back here.
Fighting I'm just wondering when that changed where you didn't because we never
saw that before where someone had to pick a stone to go it was always like you
were in wrong go to wall or I don't want I'm the fifth brother and I have no
(07:39):
ties to getting a crown or anything I'm gonna go to the wall.
Now, I mean, so I don't I don't know a specific answer to your question.
My speculation, I'm sure some of the viewers, Lord, check me on this.
But so when we get to the modern day or current day,
then they are talking about how the wall is built of a lot of sub castles and
(08:00):
sub posts that are there that had been manned traditionally that aren't manned any longer.
So it could be that previously during the time in the age where now they were
making those selections in order to populate all these other castles and all
these other posts that they,
you know, over the time decided to just go to ruin and kind of let fall apart.
(08:23):
But as far as actual time when it changed, I don't have any idea where to where it changed.
Agreed. And it could be just due to war, right? This is a time of war.
During the time where House of the Dragon is set versus the time where Game of Thrones is set,
there's been constant war and death and the sacrifice that different houses
(08:49):
have had to make and the loss that they've sustained.
Is there a set timeline? No telling.
Probably during House of the Dragon, at the beginning, there wasn't war at the time, right?
And as it goes along, you've got houses that have to send sons to war,
houses to war, daughters to war, queens that should have been the queen that never was, right?
(09:16):
So I think the loss of status or available people during the time throughout
the history of the storytelling,
it had decreased the amount of folks that you could choose from willingly.
And now you have to send folks unwillingly to war or to the wall.
(09:37):
Man, Castle Black and the East Watch and East Watch by the Bay, those things.
So like Scott said, no telling when it happened, but probably a result of the
fact that there was constant war and the reduction of available individuals to go man the wall.
Yeah, because it's just funny with it, because I was even thinking about even
(09:59):
more that Cregan's looking at the Sarah's like, man, you don't even I just got
I'm 21 and I've already been battling for three years.
And you come in and ask me, have you ever had a had a battle before?
Are you got as a dragon? Be I don't been out here on the front lines fighting my own family.
So do you? And I think another thing is like, do you know what this means to
be having an internal fight, internal family struggle of like,
(10:21):
what do you know what this means that what you're going to have to do within
this? You're going to be fighting your own family, basically.
And I think just Harris and them don't know. They don't know because you got
to think like Bethany said, they have not been in war for real.
The Starks have had turnover and turnover and turnover for a while because they're
so far away. People just don't deal with what they're going on.
But they always had some kind of struggle going on. And the Ironborn were always
(10:45):
trying to mess with them as well.
So they always had to be on. Don't forget about them. Right. Yeah.
And that's alluded to later on in the episode. Yeah, it is. We lose it very heavily in the episode.
I forget his name, but when he's talking to Damon, he's saying,
me and my brother took the same
oath and our oath was to protect the Targaryen family in its entirety.
(11:08):
What were we supposed to do when they betrayed each other?
That was one of the twins. Eric or Eric, right? One of the twins. Yeah.
Real quick, I want to bring this up because maybe Maybe somebody heard it. Maybe they did not.
But the fact when Cregan and, I'm sorry, am I saying his name correctly? DeSaras?
(11:31):
DeSaras. DeSaras. It's like a flip of his. DeSaras? Right. Yeah. It's a flip of his.
He's like, what have you been fighting all this time? He said, you know, other things.
Like, he alluded to the fact that the former king,
And the queen had flown their dragons to the wall and their dragons would not fly beyond the wall.
(11:57):
He just alluded to it. Why not? Didn't he say death?
Didn't he say death? Death and other things, right? Death and other things.
So, you know, we know now in present day that, you know, the ice zombies, right? Right.
The Ice King and all of those things that happened in the Game of Thrones. The White Walkers.
(12:19):
The White Walkers. Right. The Night King. All of those things alluded to beyond the wall.
He didn't mention it, but he's like, yeah.
So the previous king and his queen flew here and their dragons wouldn't leave
the wall. They wouldn't fly beyond the wall.
And he's like, for what? He's like, turns out that was the right call.
(12:40):
Uh yeah you know now
right that was
agon that was agon the first that you're talking about is the one
that he flew there with his with his wives his double wives uh on
their dragons out there but yeah but
it's one thing in the folklore with that because they always said too that
(13:01):
they met and they basically agon said
hey i know about the white walkers and the north
said oh you know know about them okay you got
dragons we cool whatever you just don't mess with the north and when when it
when it pops off bring them dragons up and i always thought that was their the
medium they came up to so it was never any like necessarily beef it was like
(13:22):
you got dragons we know as white walkers you had a dream about white walkers
but we we we together we got this.
So as we go forward, Rhaenyra is trying to find her son.
Daemon is on a war path of like, hey, check this out.
He just said, hey, to Rhaenyra, jump back on your dragon real quick.
(13:44):
We finna ride out and go get Vhagar. I'm sorry.
Let's talk about it. Rhaenys, my queen, my forever queen. Rhaenys,
she's exhausted. She's filthy.
Melys is her dragon, right? The dragon drops her off.
She's getting off. off she's she's weary and you know
here comes damon hey get back on the dragon and she's
(14:05):
like yeah no nothing to do it but no
the plan we're gonna go get bagar we've patrolled 100 miles on dragon back i've
patrolled 100 miles on dragon back excuse me may lease needs to gorge she needs
she needs to rest and so do i and so damon's going on about oh no you know and
this and this And she's like, yeah, but also, too,
(14:27):
I got word of my daughter's death,
Lena's death by Raven.
OK, it wasn't until I got her remains that I was able to grieve properly.
Rhaenyra only got word of Lucerys's death by Raven. She's searching for his remains.
(14:48):
She won't be back mentally, physically, emotionally until she finds his remains.
That's how I that's how I identify with her
I was in that position and also too sir you
were my daughter's husband so outside of
the fact that you're my cousin by blood I'm a mother first and she's not gonna
(15:09):
rest she's not gonna come back until she's got veritable proof that her child
is no longer walking in one living and Dame is like yeah well I order you and
she's like yeah Yeah. Would, but you were the king. Yeah.
Love it. And it's her acknowledging that she,
You may be the consort to the queen. You may be the queen's husband,
(15:32):
but you're not the queen.
And I, therefore, don't recognize any order that you give. And I'm tired. See you later.
And there's a couple of things.
I don't know if it's the truth or not, but what I got out of it was,
A, Damon's not used to anyone really.
(15:53):
He's used to being a deference to his brother and then maybe his wife.
But everyone else is in deference to him. So he's not used to anyone treating
him like a peer or an equal. So that is off-putting to him initially.
Secondly, the irony of him being so gung-ho about trying to get this done so
(16:15):
his wife can get the throne,
the rightful heir of the throne, when by all rights, the person he's asking
to do it was in the exact same situation.
And was passed over! And this issue is because they passed her over as, you know, years ago.
And if she if she if she becomes queen, then none of the rest of this stuff happens.
(16:39):
And so there's a there's an irony for him to kind of stress to her how had she
made different decisions, we wouldn't be in the situation. Well, she's like, right.
Had I killed your brother, we wouldn't be in the situation either.
And she's looking she's giving these looks like i don't think you really thought
(16:59):
these questions through if you're asking it to so i thought that was a pretty
cool scene i thought it was a i mean it was it was it was pretty short but i
think it was a lot of a lot of.
Emotion in it throughout this week and it's a callback right
so last season when melise and
renee renees burst from beneath the boards
of the coronation of agan where she
(17:22):
had that opportunity because damon brought that up he's like hey had you taken
that shot when you could have we wouldn't be here but last season she said there
will be war but it's not my war to start right so it was a harken back to last season.
And it's also giving a window into who Rhaenys actually is.
(17:46):
Hey, listen, I know I'm powerful in my own right. I'm a dragon rider.
I'm a Targaryen. I'm married into the Valyrian family, the sea snake.
I've got all of this inherent power myself.
But I also understand that in this genre, in this day, this age, I have to know my place.
(18:06):
My family is my family, right? But, and I'm an asset, I'm an ally,
but I understand where I stand and I can't go beyond that.
And it's an interesting juxtaposition to have as a woman, as the queen who never was, right?
So- I think to your point, okay, I know her place.
(18:30):
I don't necessarily feel comfortable. I didn't say know her place,
but understand her position.
What I'm saying though is that From my perspective, at least how I saw it.
For her, she's like, well, I didn't make this, I didn't become,
I didn't kill my family for the goal that I wanted for myself.
(18:50):
I'm definitely not going to kill my family so someone else can get the crown or get the throne.
And so to me, that seemed like a really reasonable compromise.
Like, you know, hey, that's not my war to start.
Right. I didn't start a very similar war on my own behalf.
I'm definitely not going to start it on your behalf. You know,
to me, it's like a very reasonable position.
(19:11):
And I think this, I think that to me, that's what I heard her say when she was
staring at Damon, you know, with those, with that thousand yard stare without saying anything.
That's what I, that's what I hear her saying. Like, well, yeah,
I didn't pull that trigger for me.
I'm definitely not pulling it for you. right because because
in in her mind to what she knows she's
lost two children right she's lost
(19:32):
her daughter and her son and she
didn't do all of this in retaliation for
it so it's it's a super interesting display of
restraint restraint oh so
hold on they don't have any kids left do they no no
children to her knowledge right right right
i mean we know that leonor is
(19:55):
actually still out there but right to her
knowledge her only son and her only daughter are no longer with her and so she's
exercising great restraint because if yes reynera her her young or her middle-born
baby got chomped out of the air by Vhagar and Aemon, but Rhaenys,
(20:17):
in her mind, what she knows to be true is that she has lost both her son and her daughter.
And so she's exercising restraint, caution, and a bit of gaymanship,
right? But still loyal to her house.
She is at her heart, at her core, still a Targaryen, married into the Valyrian family. So-
(20:40):
Yeah, Renise is always super, super. My girl. She's my avatar, right?
She's just a dope character, man. And then as we keep going forward,
then we go to King's Landing.
Aegon II is, well, actually, we go back to Aemon.
Aemon is on this, hey, yo, like, on some, hey, you know, I did that.
(21:02):
Yeah, I killed him. You know, this big daddy, you know.
Know now he's coming back almost like he just just
had you know got a woman for the first time like you know
like yeah of course you know it's me amen i
do all this now he's a tactician he's
knows all these different things of warfare he's on
(21:22):
top of the world and what do y'all
think about how amen kind of came back after this even though we know
now that he did accidentally did this it was
bagar that don't play like he was playing and
bagar don't play she has zero intense she
don't have no we just playing around you know
flying around i think he just rolled with it
(21:43):
i think i think he i think he was he was let let less embarrassed by people
thinking that he was impulsive than thinking he wasn't in control and it was
an accident he had to apologize because i mean in real talk what was the apology
really going to do like no one would have necessarily believed it you You know
what I'm saying? Like, no one would have really believed you.
You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm sorry I murdered your son and the dragon.
(22:06):
Like, you know, that's not I'm going to pay your deductible.
I re-inged your car while I was drunk. You know what I'm saying?
I take all accountability. It's my bad.
You're sorry it's not going to really do anything. You might as well have people
in these streets think that you're a gangster versus, you know, a goofy.
So I think he just rocked with it.
I, I really, I liked how he handled himself in the small council scene.
(22:31):
I liked how he handled himself in the small council scene. I like how,
you know, because they, they, they kind of alluded to it when they alluded to it in that scene,
then they kind of actually just said it out loud later on when he's talking
to, you know, Cuxpin, but basically, you know, he has some contentious,
contentious relationship with his mother and we couldn't quite figure what it was.
(22:51):
And then later on he actually spells it out because he talks out
he talks with two tongues or both sides of her mouth or
something to that something to that effect so i really
kind of like how you know he was like listen he was he was really kind
of short and direct with her it's the kind of thing like that's as much as you
can get away with saying with your mama without really you know getting over
it like there's only so much you can say you know answer questions directly
(23:12):
but really quickly really abruptly you know that's how you really get away with
it but you You knew you wanted to be slick,
you know what I'm saying, but she couldn't really call you on it.
So, and then he – I felt afterwards. And I really liked it because – and,
again, they alluded to that later saying with him and Otto.
He still – because remember last year – last season, two seasons – Two years ago.
(23:37):
Yeah, but last season, we saw how he really didn't think a lot of Agon.
You know, he was kind of disappointed that Agon was the heir,
and he was like, this is how you're comporting yourselves, You're not really
serious. It's that and the other.
And so he it seems like he's at least attempted to reconcile however he feels
about his brother's character and his ability to be king, you know,
(23:58):
in a way that makes sense for him.
And so he to me, I got that.
He presented himself more as a military leader and more strategic.
I think he realized that he's betting more power not being king.
That's what I think he's realizing.
I get more respect by being out in these streets being a shooter. Yeah.
(24:20):
I agree with you. So that was my take on this.
Bethany? Agree. The fact when he walked into the council and they're all basically
like, what are you doing here? He's like, I was summoned.
The king summoned me. And also, don't forget, I'm the king's brother. other.
And did it give shades of Damon showing up at the council with,
(24:42):
Viserys right you know I'm your brother I've
only ever tried to to look out for
you but you only ever sent me away so so Amon
is a little less seasoned than Damon was when we were introduced to him but
I it's interesting how the show kind of glossed over the whole oh I ate up my
(25:04):
nephew I feel bad about it and kind of jumped right into the yeah so what you
gonna do about it you know, phase.
That was an interesting book.
So they did a parade for him. They did a parade and a celebration for him in
the books when he killed him.
He did indicate remorse, right? He did indicate that, listen,
(25:26):
this isn't what I tried to, this isn't what I set out to do.
I just wanted to scare him, basically.
But you think about it in the books, and that
was more the parade was Otto's dealing
right that was his doing that was his attempt to
kind of change the narrative and I mean they
may still do it like and they may still but it it's interesting and and I am
(25:50):
I read the books but I'm not a purist to the books and I understand the timing
and hey the pacing and all this has been two years and we've only got a really
short period of time to tell this story So,
you know, I'm not mad about the jump, but I agree with Scott about,
I like how he presented himself to the council and then how you kind of, as the episode went on,
(26:12):
you saw him serve himself just a little bit more once he saw that his mother's
grasp was slipping a little bit from him and how his mother's trust in her own
father, his grandfather,
was kind of starting to sway.
And so it's, it's, it's interesting to watch the nuance.
(26:33):
Agree so as we as we move on we talk about we talked about everybody talked
about the council meeting i don't know if you all realize something and it's
something i realized a little bit in the first season and why this family has
so much a chip on their shoulder the lannisters are new money,
like they were getting disrespected so now you realize why taiwan is go so hard and it's like
(26:58):
no we gotta rock this way because then you
realize why because they they had just got them gold
mines and just found out they're so they are new money and
they had to fight for respect you got to remember agon
is trying to make a with twilling lannister give a piggyback ride to a kid in
the middle of a council meeting so now and then you realize why taiwan was so
(27:20):
and the lannisters in general was so like with the lannisters never forget their
debts like we don't play around because we was getting played,
102 years before that y'all didn't know about seeing this in this situation.
It made me think, oh, wow, the Lannisters were new money.
They were new to all this regal news. I'm about to give a piggyback ride to Zlickia.
(27:43):
Is the air bothering you? Do you think Kyle Lannister and the Lannisters of
today would have had any of that go down?
Nah, Tywin wouldn't roll with that. He wouldn't roll with that at all.
But also, too, just as, you know, I'm on my right.
The fact that he, Egan, went to go get his son, to even tearing him away from
(28:08):
his lesson or his culture or whatever he had going on to bring him into the meetings.
It's kind of signaled to me that that's something that his father never did for him.
Right. So it was an interesting, he wanted his son to be a part of that.
(28:33):
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Right here on SOLC Network. At an earlier age, maybe he didn't get that when his father was king.
Now, did he absolutely let his son run amok during the meeting and play with the ball?
And it's almost kind of like he was enjoying it.
But the fact that he wanted his son to be there under whatever misguided notions
(29:18):
he may have had indicated a departure from what he thought his father did or
didn't do for him. And so that was interesting.
And his father, you know, he did that for Rhaenyra because she was his heir.
And so and so when he came along, he was like, I checked the box. I have a son.
He never intended for him to be the heir. So he didn't think it was valued.
(29:42):
Thank you. How to rule. And so thank you.
Yes. So I'm sure that that was him not knowing that, you know,
that probably weighed on him. But he also think he probably thinks his father
and also his father was sick. He had a lot of stuff going on.
And so, you know, there were other things that were happening.
So in his head, he's probably justifying why his father didn't prepare him to rule.
(30:05):
Not thinking his father never intended for him to rule. Never intended for him to rule.
Right. Thank you. Oh, you picked up on it.
Mom was just a companion. His mom was supposed to be a companion as he got older.
This is like Julius Irving. I think Julius Irving had like a 13 year old kid,
12 or 13 year old kid. His older kids got to learn how to play basketball with him.
(30:25):
That 13-year-old ain't out there hooping with Julius Irving. Yeah.
Yeah. And also, too, I felt like all of the scenes with Egan were –.
In the show, in the series, right? Not the book, but the show.
It appeared as though he was trying to be a decent guy.
(30:48):
You know, hey, okay, I'll give you your sheet back. And Otto was like,
no, no, you're not, because dragons need to eat.
And hey, you know, and so they called his name Egan the Magnanimous.
And he was like, magnanimous.
And all of his buddies, his frat boys, you know, was like, let me try it.
Maybe that's not going to be the word. But it seemed that in the show,
(31:09):
he was attempting to be a more giving and he wanted to be fair to the common
folk, the little folk or whatever.
But he was thwarted by the realities of being a ruler, which is, hey, we all need to eat.
These dragons need to eat. You want Vhagar to be out here protecting the city.
(31:31):
They got to eat, you know. Hey, no, no, you're not giving them their sheep back.
The dragons need the sheep so it was this interesting juxtaposition but
i think i'm when we talk about our last part with
the blood and cheese i think the blood and cheese thing changes him i'm
thinking the way they're gonna show you that changes him because that was common
folk that went in there and did that so maybe he
(31:51):
doesn't care about the car because those weren't those weren't his
enemy and soldiers those were common folks that went in there and did
that to his son i wonder if that changes his mind state where he's just like
oh the comic folk the ones they got me so i don't yeah i don't i i saw something
in one of the trailers that makes me believe they are going to address it in
(32:12):
a way comparable they address it in the books,
it's changed again i'm it was a two second snapshot but now having seen this episode,
it could be in context to what you know what happens in the book so i'm actually
pretty optimistic and hopeful that they do go down that path and talk about how it changed them.
(32:34):
I will say one thing that again, for the blood and cheese component,
what's, what's a guy, what's a guy's wife's name? His sister, Helena, Helena. Yeah.
Helena had been talking about rats for the middle of last season.
And then obviously she, you know, she did, she talked about,
she's afraid of the rats in this episode.
(32:57):
I thought it was beautiful how they kind of baited us to give us really good.
It really only gave us, what, 10, 15 minutes?
They covered that entire storyline in at best 20 minutes.
But they've been teasing it all through last season, all through this episode.
And I thought it was a really good way to extract a lot out of relatively very
(33:21):
short amount of screen time.
I thought it was a really efficient way to do so because they had you kind of
on the tip of your tongue to see whether or not they were going to introduce
a character earlier, give you more background, flesh them out a little bit more.
And they really didn't. They just, you know, it was like a page or two in the book.
They just basically, they flushed it out in a way that it's done and it's over
(33:42):
and it's an event that leads to other events.
But they did it in a way that it was fucking gripping.
No, it was. It was. It was. If you think about it, they were – we didn't know.
Like you said, it was only two – we don't know anything about Blood and Cheese.
We didn't even know that they got this whole thing where it's – we didn't even know who they were.
(34:04):
Now we see that, oh, he was a rat catcher, and then the other guy used to –
I guess he was on the Night's Watch – not Night's – the Night's Watch with – The Kings card.
The gold card. He was on the gold card. Yeah. So we didn't even know who they were.
And it's like, what happens to these people? They just fall back into the shadows.
We never hear them again.
And they're just gone. There's blood and cheese. They put in their work and they dip out.
(34:28):
The fact that they worked that into the first episode was amazing.
I feel like the show has written out that Agen and Helena's youngest, Melor, Melor?
Yeah. Correct me if I'm wrong.
All we know as viewers of the show are the twins.
(34:48):
And if you notice when when
agan went to go go see them and hey hey where's my
son sent him to the the council it's it's just
he went to go kind of speak to
the the twin girl and he he didn't quite
touch her but she shows phases and shades of being her mother's daughter she
was facing away from the camera she's away from the action and he didn't quite
(35:11):
touch her but then he immediately turns hey where's where's my son jaharis and
she's like yeah don't disturb him he's in his lessons And I'm afraid he's like.
Don't be afraid. We've got the dragons here. Nobody's going to attack us here.
And Helena says, no, not of the dragons, but of the rats.
And they go start trying to listen to Helena, you know, the dragon gamer,
(35:33):
the dragon whisperer, whatever you'd like to call it.
But she has the sight. Baby girl's got the sight, right?
And I love the way they have written her in the show that
they say without saying that she
she's different right she she senses things
she sees things she's intuitive not only
(35:54):
because she's a mother but because because she's a dragon dreamer she she's
like a prophet almost and they keep dismissing her and and he's like ah my wife
is ever an enduring mystery like don't you remember when she said the beast
beneath the boards and And Maylis blew up from the basement with Rhaenys on top of her.
You don't remember that where we almost died, but you're going to keep ignoring me now.
(36:18):
So I feel like that it's a very soft touch.
And for those who are fans of the book and the show, you can kind of see that.
And people are mad because the blood and cheese incident didn't,
you know, introduce the third child or, you know, the fact that Alicent really
should have been with them.
But it's building its own story, but kind of keeping true to the context and who she really is.
(36:48):
I like it. I like it better because, you know, practically speaking,
you know, it's HBO that the interest in that third story and how it plays out
in the book introduces some things that people are just not going to be comfortable
with on the show that, you know.
It was already bad. It was already. The things that they dropped out of that
(37:10):
scene, I'm okay with them dropping out of there because it's just certain topics.
You don't necessarily need to talk about it at show.
And, and it, the, the incident as played out still drives her character to do
the things or not do the things that we suspect that she's going to do or not do going forward.
So it was still an appropriately motivating force.
(37:31):
I understand what they're saying about Alison, not being there,
but I don't know what, without those other events, I don't know if what Allison being there gains them.
It actually proves more because she wasn't there. You asked me,
Scott, where was the Queen's Guard? Where was the King's Guard?
And that's the one change I didn't like.
(37:53):
I thought that it should have been a little bit bloodier because because her
handmaiden in the book, she dies.
Right. He kills the handmaiden when he walks in. The woman, he says,
oh, this is for the rats. She dies.
And Helena has a couple of guards there that die.
I and what I thought was I thought when after it happens and she's running down
(38:15):
the hall, she walks downstairs and she likes is startled.
I thought they were going to show a couple of dead guards there because it doesn't
really make sense that she doesn't scream, you know, considering the events, how they played out.
Once they're both enthralled enough that they're, you know, getting her son's
head and she grabs her daughter, she's running down the hall.
(38:36):
At a certain point, she should start screaming because there are guards in the castle.
And so it doesn't really make sense that she keeps her silent so much.
And I get that she's been struck and PTSD, but having another dead guard there
that they just maybe killed off screen kind of it makes it seem less suspicious
because that although it was a really impactful scene in the moment,
(38:57):
like when you go back on a rewatch,
it is a really long time that the camera follows her down the hallway.
Way. She's not moving very quickly.
She's kind of discombobulated and kind of drunk from the emotion of it all.
But considering how many guards were there when the king was just sitting there
drinking with his friends on the Iron Throne to have in the royal quarters.
(39:20):
That's what they were, right?
But that also speaks to the character that has been developed for Helena,
throughout episode, sorry, throughout season one, she is a citizen of spirit.
She does not react to stimuli the way that others do.
She, in fact, couldn't tolerate her mother's touch in the first season.
(39:41):
If you remember, at one point, Allison was trying to comfort her and she kind
of moved away from her mother's touch.
So she experiences feeling differently.
And I thought that the episode, episode one of season two really portrayed how
someone of her sensitivities might react in that instance.
(40:05):
I know a lot of people think, oh, you should have screamed.
You should have done something. No, she's acting totally, in my opinion,
totally within character, what we know her development to be.
I'm okay with her character. I'm just putting that out there. So you're right.
Yeah. You know, Bethany, me, I would have screamed and shouted and grabbed my kid and caught up.
(40:28):
But Helena is, you know, she already prophesied this.
I don't have a problem with how she reacted I'm just
saying that when they showed her
reaction which I agree is in character for her
character it actually showed a very long
walk that she's taken and she's walking down two very
(40:49):
long hallways she's walking down stairs she
gets to you know I forgot what it's called but kind of a landing area
where she has to find a direction to go and in
none of that time she doesn't see any servants and
that's what i'm saying had they
just introduced a couple dead bodies there
then a it would make that walk seem
(41:11):
more ominous and harder to feel more and more
threatened but also kind of go well why is it like how is this place this place
wasn't unguarded they just killed the people who were guarding it and so and
also too don't forget laris got rid of by his by his his affirmation got rid
of all who were loyal to Rhaenyra.
(41:33):
So he basically, he had them killed if he thought that they had a semblance of loyalty to Rhaenyra.
And remember at the beginning, you know, he's like, I replaced them all.
And, and, and Alison sent them away while she was bathing and she's scrubbing
her own self. And then she's like, yeah, leave me, leave me.
She doesn't recognize anybody. She doesn't know anybody.
(41:53):
So that could be part of it. Right. But But also, too, we, you know,
the Kingsguard and the Queensguard boss was over here piping down Allison,
you know, so they didn't have no direction.
Maybe they was over here messing around, drinking, you know,
whoring out with Amon and all the lowlifes, right? So they didn't have no direction.
(42:16):
If Aegon find out what he was doing instead of out there protecting his wife, it's going to get ugly.
Oh, man, man.
I mean, you know, I mean, Kristen Cole, I call him bitched and cold.
But I mean, you know, he is what he is. You know, he's still he's still trying to make Raniere upset.
(42:38):
And she don't even know he messing with her. Like it's like he's still I'm going
to make her feel that she ain't want to run away with me. I'm going to she going to feel this.
He is the I call it. Can I say this online? He is the bitches.
The bitches. We can we can talk about Laris. We can talk about Amen.
Agan, Christian Cole is the messiest of bitches. And I didn't need to see all that.
(43:01):
You know, because remember, he was trying to marry and wife up Rhaenyra in season one.
Hey, run away with me and raise orange orchards. Go to Ethos.
Right, Ethos. And raise orange groves. And I love you. And she's like,
please, no, not happening.
But now to see him as Alicent's lapdog, it's funny to me.
(43:26):
It's funny to me because you are the messiest of bitches.
Yeah, I mean, so Laris, I like Laris. I like Laris. He's kind of my guy.
Cole's issue is that he's too sensitive to be, like, he can't be a killer and sensitive.
You know what I'm saying? Like, he wants to be respected as a warrior,
(43:46):
but he's also real super sensitive in his feelings about everything that's going
on with him and the chicks in his life.
It's just, it's annoying. knowing. It's like, okay, dude, you're piping down
princesses and queens here. What exactly is your complaint? And you're getting paid to do it.
Got a whole foot fetish. You're not supposed to be having sex,
period. You're not supposed to be having sex, period. You're a kingdawg.
(44:08):
You're not supposed to be having sex, period.
You're all out of line. Yeah, but it's a matter of fact. Doing too much. Hashtag doing too much.
Laris and Christian Cole. Done.
And, oh, I'm sorry, can I hop back just a little bit? when Otto walked in on
Eamon and Christian Cole kind of drinking and kicking a few back and talking about it.
(44:32):
And he was like, hold on, what's y'all doing in here? What's he talking about?
And Eamon says, words are wind, words are wind. My mother speaks with two tongues.
It was to my opinion, in my opinion, indicative of the fact that he's aware
of all the machinations that are They're going on behind the scenes.
And he is...
(44:55):
Now going to attempt to kind of establish himself, not as his brother's attack
dog or lead dog, but the force.
Because without Vhagar, what do they have?
They've got extra dragons. So cool. Okay.
But Aemon knows it doesn't matter really what you say.
I've got Vhagar. And as long as I'm kind of on board with what you guys got
(45:20):
going on, then the battle falls, the war falls in in your favor.
And remember how Otto dismissed Christian? He was like, what are you doing? Get to work.
I need to talk to the prince to take the station. And did you notice,
Eamon didn't turn around.
He didn't turn around. His arms are up on the couch or the chair, whatever it is.
(45:43):
He never turned around. He never turned around. He didn't flinch.
He didn't look over his shoulder.
He waited until his grandfather walked around to his line of sight where Kristen hops immediately up.
He stands attention it hops up because and showing
showing the their respective places in the hierarchy which
i thought was a really subtle thing that they did visually without
(46:04):
fully addressing it but it was really noticeable particularly
the second view my thought was a really cool thing that
they did sorry if you look at it i don't think
he's running this i don't think he's gonna
be running all this stuff he thought oh man i'm just
gonna be the hand of the king i'm basically gonna be the
king he doesn't be tyler he doesn't
be he doesn't be a tyler but even tyler
(46:29):
was losing control of of jeffrey though similar to how they losing control of
agon agon and amen like tyler was losing a little bit of handle on him you remember
he was killing prostitutes and stuff on the low and doing all kind of crazy
stuff and he didn't want him to kill it was not on the low yeah.
(46:50):
And he didn't want him to kill Stark he told him like nah this is under the
wall nah I'm going to do something different,
So everyone thinks they're going to run someone, but when they get in there,
it's like, oh, no, I'm the king.
Let me run this. I forgot who said it in this episode.
It's like, hey, Otto was the hand to the last two kings.
(47:11):
He's not your hand. Was that Laris?
He's like, he's not your hand. He was the hand to the last two kings.
And, oh, talking to Agen, right? And he was planting the seed, right?
He was planting the seed for Agen to, at some point, be like,
you know what? You're right.
He's no friend to me. Yeah, that's my grandfather, but also to,
(47:32):
let me see what havoc I can wreak, right?
Let's see what I can get popping out here. I thought it was very clever. I like that, Laris.
Laris is everybody boy while you're there.
And then when you're not, it's every man for they self. With a foot fetish.
As long as you got pretty feet, you got his attention. Let's go.
(47:52):
Hey, we love it. Life's too short not to know what times you are.
What you do it's like
it is what it is my it is what
it is all right let's turn back to
dragon stone reneer finally finds
her son comes back what an emotional scene when jacerys comes back and is like
(48:16):
he'd already got the the note and he's just trying to just run his report and
he just couldn't finish it up you know like though but the one when he said
but the the veil and needs to have a dragon.
I was like, so like, if somebody stayed with this dragon or they just drop them
off because some of them dragons is wild.
And I don't know, like somebody needs to stay with some of these dragons.
Like how are we going to run with this protecting the field?
(48:39):
Man, I'll say one thing and I'll turn it over to Scott.
The fact that Ray Diener only spoke four words this entire episode is, I want Eamon Targaryen.
I want him. But the scene of her showing up on the beach,
finding the remains of Lucerys and Eryx, and her literally leaping off of Cyrax
(49:01):
and her grieving and Cyrax also mourning.
Mourning the death of Lucera, but also of Arax, right?
Was Arax, Cyrax's child?
I'm sorry, I may have that mixed up, but the dragons grieved too.
The dragons grieved too. And the fact that she only spoke four words this entire episode,
(49:25):
super powerful, and that her son was attempting to bring news from his travels
to the north, to the wall with, hey, we've got this support, We've got that support,
but also grieving his baby brother and the emotion between the two of them.
And she just hugs him up and so powerful, so moving. I yield.
I mean, yeah, I mean, again, I'm not going to reference the other show,
(49:48):
but, you know, in comparison to it, it was the show me versus tell me.
And so she had a ton of screen time.
But to your point, she only said four words. but her
lack of speaking she the actress
had to do a lot carry a lot of weight emotionally conveying
you know what she was going through of showing her grief showing her her disillusionment
(50:13):
and all those things and then the that simple task became too difficult for
them both to continue to put up the pretense to fight through it and it would
it just wound up being really powerful and.
I think a lot of times writers can get to a position where they feel they have
to dumb down things for the audience.
(50:35):
But, you know, I believe that most writers can trust the audience a little bit
more with more complicated, more nuanced types of relationships and emotions.
You already dropped the bomb.
Her child is dead. Her dragon's dead.
She's already going through the loss of her father pretty recently.
And also the loss of her title on her station. she's
(50:57):
dealing with a lot we were there we watched it
so you can trust us to understand that she is processing grief
you know and on several different ways and several different
levels and by her being unable to put it into words it says all we really need
to know because when she finally formulated words it was the person i blame
(51:18):
for this pain i want punished and so uh and so i think again i Just shout out
to the writers. Just shout out to the writers.
And the actors, because that was so...
She carried an episode with four words. Four.
And it harkened back to at the beginning when Rainice was basically telling
(51:40):
David, I'm not here for none of your bullshit.
Like, you know, I'm a mother. I know what she's going through.
You don't know what she's going through, but I know what she's going through.
And it's not going to be until...
Because he said, well, she's been away for days. She hasn't come back.
She's unprotected. She didn't take any protection with her. And Rhaenys was like.
She has to settle it within her spirit. She's got to settle it within her soul
(52:02):
to find visual proof that her child is gone.
And she'll be out there as long as it takes. And until she finds it,
then this is what we're going to do. I'm going to patrol with my lease.
You can order me to the skies. I'm not going to do it. But until my queen orders
me to do something, then I'll do something.
But again, to your point, referencing that scene,
(52:25):
they have a, what is it called, a reliable narrator tell us things about a different
character from a perspective that we believe,
that we saw them go through, and we believe that they are an expert on this field.
So then they use that opportunity to narratively tell us something about Rhaenyra
(52:45):
without having Rhaenyra say it, but then use that opportunity to both expand
on Daemon's and Rhaenys' characters.
It builds on their relationship. It shows contention between them.
It shows that they're both more peers than one in deference to each other,
that she's not afraid of him, that he thinks that she should be or she should
(53:06):
listen to him. So they communicate all these things about three different characters.
One never says a word about it. And then they flush out two different characters
and their relationship in an argument while informing you about the third.
It's just really good writing.
Like, it's just really, really good writing. Beautifully, beautifully written.
And it's acting well, too. It's acting well, too. What do you say, Scott?
(53:29):
It's not lazy storytelling.
Yeah. It's not, it's trusting the viewers with what we already know, right?
Versus what we think is going to happen, but allowing us to,
to come to the conclusion organically.
It was beautifully written. If they don't get an award for that,
for episode one, then I'm a monkey's uncle and we should just stop this podcast.
(53:53):
I don't know. Yeah. I mean, it was just, I mean, it was just,
and that's the thing. I mean, I had a couple issues with the episode.
I mean, nothing really major, but.
What wasn't the issue was how well they communicated the things they wanted to communicate.
There are a couple of things that I didn't think they should have communicated
or they could have communicated in a way that was more toward my liking.
(54:13):
But I don't think they did anything wrong. It's just not the way I would have taken it.
But I feel like I know what the writers were trying to get us to understand
and communicate from start to finish in the episode.
And whether I agree with all the decisions, like, you know, not having enough
dead bodies there at the end in the blood and cheese scenes,
or, you know, some of the components we talked about, you know,
(54:34):
the unnecessary component of Aegon complaining about Aemon,
you know, to his friends for no reason because he didn't understand what magnanimous
meant seemed a little bit superfluous for me. But again, no, not a huge deal.
Not a huge deal. You know what I'm saying? But it wasn't a huge deal.
But I believe that I understood how the writers let the breadcrumbs for the
(54:56):
actual viewers to say, hey, listen, these are the things that are important.
And whether you see they're important now, when it does become important.
You're going to be able to call back this conversation, this scene,
this reaction, the way that they were speaking.
So it'll have its impact when it's decided to. And I just thought that was a
really great job, a really great writing job.
Out again the actors i mean the actors
(55:17):
are all you know really excellent actors i've been following matt
smith ever since he was doctor who so you know i'm always a
fan i just thought the writing was great yeah what
so so as we wrap up what do you guys think we're going to see in this season
overall like where are we where are we going you all think you're for the rest
of this season i suspend judgment i suspend judgment because the fact that we
(55:39):
got blood and cheese in episode one has completely upended my timeline of what
I thought was going to happen.
I suspend judgment and I cannot wait to see it kind of unfold. So.
That's me. I think we're going to get an episode and a half of Helena and Aegon melting down.
(56:01):
And then the repercussions of their meltdown. So I think that they gave us the
inciting act in episode one.
I think episode two, maybe the first half or three quarters of it is going to
be the emotional, the emotional outbreak or breakdown of Helena and Agon.
(56:23):
And then they're going to make some decisions that may or may not seem rash.
And it's going to. So episodes two and three are going to be how they respond
to it, both emotionally and actually tactically.
And so i think that's what the next two episodes are going to be i don't want to speculate as
to what they are because i'm going to be speculating mostly on
(56:44):
what is in the book versus what i think the story writers are going to
do i do think they're going to deviate book again but i
do think that there are a couple scenes that i can
think of in a book that i'm pretty sure that they're going to have in
there you know i'd be really interested
to see and this is why i say say that because i'd be
really interested to see how the writers handle
(57:06):
blood and cheese going here on out because okay according to episode one they're
supposed to be meeting damon at what is it not harkington uh harrenhal yeah
they're supposed to be like harrenhal but we don't have any.
Notion at this point that damon has
(57:29):
any control of harrenhal right i don't
think that they mentioned that they did i
missed it so i'd be interested to see how
they're handling that because they didn't introduce it that's a place damon
could reasonably be right to my knowledge they're all in dragonstone and no
place else right so it's a dragonstone correct you're right go ahead yeah so
(57:52):
So I'd be interested to see how they handle that component.
And so going forward, that's why I think the next two episodes are going to
be more emotionally how Aegon and Helena handle it, because I don't think they've
set up enough for Harrenhal yet.
At this point in time, the story. And so they have to evolve that in the next episode or two.
Can I say one thing and then I'm done? Can we call it the cloak that Dabin dons
(58:18):
every time bad shit happens? Can we call it the murder cloak?
The murder cloak is something bad is going to happen.
And also, too, in the books, it doesn't really expressly stated in the in the in the show.
But how the gold cloaks are loyal to Damon when, when he showed up with that,
(58:40):
with the murder cloak on and he was like, yeah, I heard you hate the high towers.
Do was like, yeah, fuck the high towers.
It doesn't matter who's in power because Damon is the one who gave them the
gold cloaks before he donned them with those, with, with, with the,
with the cloaks, they were laughed at.
They were ridiculed. he turned the
(59:03):
king's guard into the king's guard
right which is why the gentleman from season
one after the saris died and
they're trying to you know usurp power and figure it out in the council the
the the captain of the king's guard he he rips his cloak off he was like i am
the captain of the king's guard and seeing that there is no king i have no place
(59:25):
here so after christian cold bashed the elder's head in on the table and he walked away.
They are effectively loyal to Damon.
So whenever he shows up with the murder cloak and the money, bad things happen.
A lot of takes you. Fuck the high towers, right?
(59:50):
My question is with Bethany, do they not know that the gold cloaks are his people
why don't they just get a whole new section if don't do that or do they don't
not not know that those is folks.
I think that they haven't considered it, right?
It's not that they don't know. It's that they haven't considered that loyalty.
(01:00:12):
You remember, Laris got rid of all the ladies-in-waiting or the guards to the
royal family who he felt were loyal to Rhaenyra.
They haven't yet turned that eye to the Kingsguard and the Goldcloaks because
it hasn't occurred to them yet.
Who would know? I mean, who would know? No, the only person who could possibly
(01:00:34):
even have the information is Otto, but Otto could have assumed that the loyalty was to the crown.
The crown. Exactly. And so there's no one there's no one that is in the inner
circle enough to have the context in order to know what this heiress is gone.
This heiress could have told him. Damon could have told him,
(01:00:57):
but it's something he's using to his advantage. Rhaenyra could have told him.
Rhaenyra could have told him. Rhaenys could have told him. Literally anybody who's not a Hightower.
And if Christian had been paying attention instead of getting,
you know, blowing the brains out the back out of the Dowager Queen,
he could have told him because Daemon made him too. Right. So it's interesting.
(01:01:19):
Hey, I didn't even think about that. And it's basically just got constant spies there if he needs them.
Yeah. and spies and
spies who have incredible levels of access incredible levels because if they
had been on if Christian Cole had been on his job maybe well as the show runners
(01:01:41):
tell it maybe the King's heir J.
Harris could have been spared because he had people on watch but he was too busy having.
Rapid thunder and a lightning it's cool I mean but also they accidentally Stumbled
upon this situation too Which was funny that the whale was like.
(01:02:01):
Man let's just get up out of here oh there goes son right there let's just go
get this we can get up out and get out shit and so i'm sorry one more thing
that'll be done for me the fact that helena who who shirked her mother's embrace
last season the fact that she grabbed up her remaining baby,
and ran to her mother's rooms that was
(01:02:24):
unguarded speaks a lot it speaks volumes you
know she didn't want to be touched by her mother she don't want to
be touched by anybody you know she she's always kind
of aloof one you know standing a step away the
fact that she grabbed up her baby and ran to where she thought she could get
some help and that happened to be her mother's room that that's very very telling
(01:02:46):
very very telling for her and that the dude that's been guarding you was in
this room with your mom knocking her boot and she she may not have even noticed
it like she just got to the
place where she thought she was safe maybe she'll process it doubt it but i
found it interesting because i'm like hey what's going on here ain't you supposed to be on duty.
Cold not on duty literally not on duty also it was it was it was kind of terrifying
(01:03:11):
not terrifying but kind of heartbreaking when she when when allison asked selena
what are you doing and she goes, they killed the boy. They killed the boy.
It was just super very detached. They killed the boy.
I'm holding my daughter. You don't see my daughter's twin.
They killed the boy. You hopping off the dick. I'm just saying.
(01:03:35):
Man, it was.
Heartbreaking to actually see it. Yeah, I can see it.
Alright, so we got back no go ahead sorry go ahead go ahead go ahead scott i
was just gonna say just no no no go ahead you're good a final component was
just as much as different as that was from what was in the book actually seeing
(01:03:58):
it was still kind of hard to watch so i'm glad they didn't boo what was in the book,
same same because you could hear it even
what i heard the the audio of of
hearing that yeah it was it was a lot for me and
upon my second viewing i was like yeah i
actually muted the tv during that it was
(01:04:21):
that bad for me i was like yeah that's that's that's traumatic she's
got ptsd for sure for sure right i got
ptsd it wasn't even a real baby it wasn't my baby so you know so like i said
that was a change i was completely fine with so i'm sorry d go ahead oh no no
no no i was just wrapping this up you know we finna get back at it we're glad
to see everybody we'll be back next week with episode two peace.
Music.
(00:17):
All right. We're back finally after two years, it feels like.
Actually, it's two years, I think, because they took off a whole year.
It's supposed to be the game House of Dragons Season 2, Episode 1.
Man, it's good to see y'all again, man. This is awesome. This is awesome.
Yes. Good to see you guys. Glad to be back. Nice to see y'all again. in.
(00:40):
All right. So I'm going to go with you first, Bethany. What was your thoughts on this episode?
For episode one, what were your thoughts, your general thoughts?
And then Scott, then I'll go and then we'll dive into it.
General thoughts, loved it. Tight storytelling, jumped right in,
drew me in like I was never gone, right?
(01:01):
So I loved it. 10 out of 10, And 9.8 out of 10.
So I'll leave it at that. Go ahead, Scott. All right, Scott.
I really enjoyed it. I mean, I think I'd probably give it an 8 out of 10.
I thought, particularly compared to some of the Star Wars stuff that we were
kind of talking about off camera, the job that they did as far as really bringing
(01:22):
you into the story and making you invest really initially to kind of get you
excited about the season, kind of get gripping you into the world.
They did an excellent job in that. I mean,
obviously we'll get to it, but the ending was, although it differs from what
we thought it would be, I think they had some legitimate reasons in doing so,
but I thought it was really ambitious the way that they did it and performed it.
(01:44):
And I think that maybe they did so to play a couple angles that may differ from
what the source material is, but still, it's pretty gripping.
But I still, like I said, 8 out of 10, really enjoyed it, was really pleased
with it. It was a breath of fresh air.
I'm going to agree with both of y'all. To me, I didn't know we were going to
get blood and cheese the first episode. I thought maybe third or fourth.
(02:07):
We didn't let y'all. It's been a long time we left you. Let's go dive right into the chaos.
I'm going eight out of 10 as well, Scott. I loved it.
It was a great way to get back into this world and back into understanding.
And if you didn't get a recap before, it kind of set the table of like,
okay, these are the things that happen to remind you, oh, this is what happened before.
(02:29):
All right, I'm ready to go. So I love that way they was able to set that up.
All right, let's jump on in. So we start off with basically,
I mean, with them going to the north.
I mean, that was, I mean, the Cregan Stark kind of thing.
Hey, man, I don't care nobody say the Starks are badasses, man.
And it's just something about our cases.
(02:51):
They walk around. They got on the mink coats.
You know, they just, Jahares is out there all cold.
And he ain't got an auto at the wall. He ain't even got him a regular winter.
He got them all at the wall, super cold.
He ain't never had no temperatures like that in his life.
And he got them all the way there. If you won't, I won't pledge my allegiance
to you. I'm going to take you all.
(03:13):
That's what it felt like. Like, let me know. And it was interesting.
Wrestling and if we if you guys know and some of
the listeners may not know but so cregan stark at this time it
just came out of civil war with his own family so he's already
kind of in a he's already in war mode already he's like look man i only got
like these old castes like in their 50s but they rolling because i gotta replenish
(03:37):
my folks you can get them too you know and maybe i'll come back around after
i see what's going on because we got to recoup and get everything
together in house stark because i just fought my
uncle you know two weeks ago five minutes
five minutes ago and it did did it feel like
a share did it feel like coming home with with the the intro with with cregan
(03:58):
the the voiceover and it's like hey i thought at first it was john stark right
and it felt like coming home and it it was i didn't expect that it was very
unexpected and the dialect,
the inflection and the speak, the verbiage.
(04:19):
And, you know, when they were pulling the stones from the bag and the gentleman
pulled the black stone, right?
It's like, it's not a punishment. It's an honor, right?
And to watch them walk to the wall and to to see the wall, and to see Cregan.
Who we know to be as Cregan, and also J.
(04:41):
Sarah's, I'm sorry, Rainnara's oldest son.
On the wall with him it was a it was like coming home it
was very unexpected i loved it yeah i
mean the the narrate the so again i don't want to go too much into the star
wars stuff but really kind of junk to junk people's way with that story so they
start off with the narration duty of sacrifice and at first we think he's talking
(05:04):
to us the the viewers he's not he's never talking to us at the entire time.
But as they go through it, they show us how he's walking through what that sacrifice of duty is.
And then he goes back and then when he breaks it to the part where he says,
you know, this goes back farther than any oath or any word that was said,
(05:27):
then now we get brought to the fact that he's not talking to us.
He's talking to somebody who is there to try
to elicit said something from him and that
person who's trying to make that request isn't as
keen as he is on how to either
make that request or the gravity of the request he's asking because you know
because he made two things that were really snarky that they were really subtle
(05:50):
but i really appreciate it the first one when he goes he says well yeah at least
you didn't come and threaten me with your dragon you know this is what our ancestors
did and the second time he says do you
think that they built a 700-foot wall of ice to keep out snow and savages?
And so when he makes these points, now, you could also argue that because the
(06:14):
raven comes and now he's notified of his brother's death, that may change the dynamic of it.
But as laid out throughout the show, or at least that part of the show,
it was clear that he was not going to acquiesce as to what the request was.
Was he was going to provide something, but not at all what he came there to get.
And so and whatever he was going to provide was going to be good enough.
(06:36):
I just thought that was really done really eloquently and really subtly.
And it wasn't it wasn't it wasn't a brutish or a show of force.
It was just say, hey, I'm better at this diplomacy thing than you are,
even though you don't see it yet.
And so I thought that was really clever. I really appreciated it.
So I have a question for you all with that, with the with the because they changed
the way that people went to the wall over these years,
(06:58):
because when we get to the present time in general game
of thrones that was only for people that wanted to volunteer
to go or you did something that somebody sent you there
so i'm just i'm just wondering in the timeline when did it change where it was
only violent it's like going to the military like before it was a draft and
now it's volunteer are you in trouble right the only reason that you went to
(07:18):
the wall because remember the wall doesn't have anybody there anymore maybe
because they maybe because everyone was like well we need these people back
because we got so many battles going on we need people back here.
Fighting I'm just wondering when that changed where you didn't because we never
saw that before where someone had to pick a stone to go it was always like you
were in wrong go to wall or I don't want I'm the fifth brother and I have no
(07:39):
ties to getting a crown or anything I'm gonna go to the wall.
Now, I mean, so I don't I don't know a specific answer to your question.
My speculation, I'm sure some of the viewers, Lord, check me on this.
But so when we get to the modern day or current day,
then they are talking about how the wall is built of a lot of sub castles and
(08:00):
sub posts that are there that had been manned traditionally that aren't manned any longer.
So it could be that previously during the time in the age where now they were
making those selections in order to populate all these other castles and all
these other posts that they,
you know, over the time decided to just go to ruin and kind of let fall apart.
(08:23):
But as far as actual time when it changed, I don't have any idea where to where it changed.
Agreed. And it could be just due to war, right? This is a time of war.
During the time where House of the Dragon is set versus the time where Game of Thrones is set,
there's been constant war and death and the sacrifice that different houses
(08:49):
have had to make and the loss that they've sustained.
Is there a set timeline? No telling.
Probably during House of the Dragon, at the beginning, there wasn't war at the time, right?
And as it goes along, you've got houses that have to send sons to war,
houses to war, daughters to war, queens that should have been the queen that never was, right?
(09:16):
So I think the loss of status or available people during the time throughout
the history of the storytelling,
it had decreased the amount of folks that you could choose from willingly.
And now you have to send folks unwillingly to war or to the wall.
(09:37):
Man, Castle Black and the East Watch and East Watch by the Bay, those things.
So like Scott said, no telling when it happened, but probably a result of the
fact that there was constant war and the reduction of available individuals to go man the wall.
Yeah, because it's just funny with it, because I was even thinking about even
(09:59):
more that Cregan's looking at the Sarah's like, man, you don't even I just got
I'm 21 and I've already been battling for three years.
And you come in and ask me, have you ever had a had a battle before?
Are you got as a dragon? Be I don't been out here on the front lines fighting my own family.
So do you? And I think another thing is like, do you know what this means to
be having an internal fight, internal family struggle of like,
(10:21):
what do you know what this means that what you're going to have to do within
this? You're going to be fighting your own family, basically.
And I think just Harris and them don't know. They don't know because you got
to think like Bethany said, they have not been in war for real.
The Starks have had turnover and turnover and turnover for a while because they're
so far away. People just don't deal with what they're going on.
But they always had some kind of struggle going on. And the Ironborn were always
(10:45):
trying to mess with them as well.
So they always had to be on. Don't forget about them. Right. Yeah.
And that's alluded to later on in the episode. Yeah, it is. We lose it very heavily in the episode.
I forget his name, but when he's talking to Damon, he's saying,
me and my brother took the same
oath and our oath was to protect the Targaryen family in its entirety.
(11:08):
What were we supposed to do when they betrayed each other?
That was one of the twins. Eric or Eric, right? One of the twins. Yeah.
Real quick, I want to bring this up because maybe Maybe somebody heard it. Maybe they did not.
But the fact when Cregan and, I'm sorry, am I saying his name correctly? DeSaras?
(11:31):
DeSaras. DeSaras. It's like a flip of his. DeSaras? Right. Yeah. It's a flip of his.
He's like, what have you been fighting all this time? He said, you know, other things.
Like, he alluded to the fact that the former king,
And the queen had flown their dragons to the wall and their dragons would not fly beyond the wall.
(11:57):
He just alluded to it. Why not? Didn't he say death?
Didn't he say death? Death and other things, right? Death and other things.
So, you know, we know now in present day that, you know, the ice zombies, right? Right.
The Ice King and all of those things that happened in the Game of Thrones. The White Walkers.
(12:19):
The White Walkers. Right. The Night King. All of those things alluded to beyond the wall.
He didn't mention it, but he's like, yeah.
So the previous king and his queen flew here and their dragons wouldn't leave
the wall. They wouldn't fly beyond the wall.
And he's like, for what? He's like, turns out that was the right call.
(12:40):
Uh yeah you know now
right that was
agon that was agon the first that you're talking about is the one
that he flew there with his with his wives his double wives uh on
their dragons out there but yeah but
it's one thing in the folklore with that because they always said too that
(13:01):
they met and they basically agon said
hey i know about the white walkers and the north
said oh you know know about them okay you got
dragons we cool whatever you just don't mess with the north and when when it
when it pops off bring them dragons up and i always thought that was their the
medium they came up to so it was never any like necessarily beef it was like
(13:22):
you got dragons we know as white walkers you had a dream about white walkers
but we we we together we got this.
So as we go forward, Rhaenyra is trying to find her son.
Daemon is on a war path of like, hey, check this out.
He just said, hey, to Rhaenyra, jump back on your dragon real quick.
(13:44):
We finna ride out and go get Vhagar. I'm sorry.
Let's talk about it. Rhaenys, my queen, my forever queen. Rhaenys,
she's exhausted. She's filthy.
Melys is her dragon, right? The dragon drops her off.
She's getting off. off she's she's weary and you know
here comes damon hey get back on the dragon and she's
(14:05):
like yeah no nothing to do it but no
the plan we're gonna go get bagar we've patrolled 100 miles on dragon back i've
patrolled 100 miles on dragon back excuse me may lease needs to gorge she needs
she needs to rest and so do i and so damon's going on about oh no you know and
this and this And she's like, yeah, but also, too,
(14:27):
I got word of my daughter's death,
Lena's death by Raven.
OK, it wasn't until I got her remains that I was able to grieve properly.
Rhaenyra only got word of Lucerys's death by Raven. She's searching for his remains.
(14:48):
She won't be back mentally, physically, emotionally until she finds his remains.
That's how I that's how I identify with her
I was in that position and also too sir you
were my daughter's husband so outside of
the fact that you're my cousin by blood I'm a mother first and she's not gonna
(15:09):
rest she's not gonna come back until she's got veritable proof that her child
is no longer walking in one living and Dame is like yeah well I order you and
she's like yeah Yeah. Would, but you were the king. Yeah.
Love it. And it's her acknowledging that she,
You may be the consort to the queen. You may be the queen's husband,
(15:32):
but you're not the queen.
And I, therefore, don't recognize any order that you give. And I'm tired. See you later.
And there's a couple of things.
I don't know if it's the truth or not, but what I got out of it was,
A, Damon's not used to anyone really.
(15:53):
He's used to being a deference to his brother and then maybe his wife.
But everyone else is in deference to him. So he's not used to anyone treating
him like a peer or an equal. So that is off-putting to him initially.
Secondly, the irony of him being so gung-ho about trying to get this done so
(16:15):
his wife can get the throne,
the rightful heir of the throne, when by all rights, the person he's asking
to do it was in the exact same situation.
And was passed over! And this issue is because they passed her over as, you know, years ago.
And if she if she if she becomes queen, then none of the rest of this stuff happens.
(16:39):
And so there's a there's an irony for him to kind of stress to her how had she
made different decisions, we wouldn't be in the situation. Well, she's like, right.
Had I killed your brother, we wouldn't be in the situation either.
And she's looking she's giving these looks like i don't think you really thought
(16:59):
these questions through if you're asking it to so i thought that was a pretty
cool scene i thought it was a i mean it was it was it was pretty short but i
think it was a lot of a lot of.
Emotion in it throughout this week and it's a callback right
so last season when melise and
renee renees burst from beneath the boards
of the coronation of agan where she
(17:22):
had that opportunity because damon brought that up he's like hey had you taken
that shot when you could have we wouldn't be here but last season she said there
will be war but it's not my war to start right so it was a harken back to last season.
And it's also giving a window into who Rhaenys actually is.
(17:46):
Hey, listen, I know I'm powerful in my own right. I'm a dragon rider.
I'm a Targaryen. I'm married into the Valyrian family, the sea snake.
I've got all of this inherent power myself.
But I also understand that in this genre, in this day, this age, I have to know my place.
(18:06):
My family is my family, right? But, and I'm an asset, I'm an ally,
but I understand where I stand and I can't go beyond that.
And it's an interesting juxtaposition to have as a woman, as the queen who never was, right?
So- I think to your point, okay, I know her place.
(18:30):
I don't necessarily feel comfortable. I didn't say know her place,
but understand her position.
What I'm saying though is that From my perspective, at least how I saw it.
For her, she's like, well, I didn't make this, I didn't become,
I didn't kill my family for the goal that I wanted for myself.
(18:50):
I'm definitely not going to kill my family so someone else can get the crown or get the throne.
And so to me, that seemed like a really reasonable compromise.
Like, you know, hey, that's not my war to start.
Right. I didn't start a very similar war on my own behalf.
I'm definitely not going to start it on your behalf. You know,
to me, it's like a very reasonable position.
(19:11):
And I think this, I think that to me, that's what I heard her say when she was
staring at Damon, you know, with those, with that thousand yard stare without saying anything.
That's what I, that's what I hear her saying. Like, well, yeah,
I didn't pull that trigger for me.
I'm definitely not pulling it for you. right because because
in in her mind to what she knows she's
lost two children right she's lost
(19:32):
her daughter and her son and she
didn't do all of this in retaliation for
it so it's it's a super interesting display of
restraint restraint oh so
hold on they don't have any kids left do they no no
children to her knowledge right right right
i mean we know that leonor is
(19:55):
actually still out there but right to her
knowledge her only son and her only daughter are no longer with her and so she's
exercising great restraint because if yes reynera her her young or her middle-born
baby got chomped out of the air by Vhagar and Aemon, but Rhaenys,
(20:17):
in her mind, what she knows to be true is that she has lost both her son and her daughter.
And so she's exercising restraint, caution, and a bit of gaymanship,
right? But still loyal to her house.
She is at her heart, at her core, still a Targaryen, married into the Valyrian family. So-
(20:40):
Yeah, Renise is always super, super. My girl. She's my avatar, right?
She's just a dope character, man. And then as we keep going forward,
then we go to King's Landing.
Aegon II is, well, actually, we go back to Aemon.
Aemon is on this, hey, yo, like, on some, hey, you know, I did that.
(21:02):
Yeah, I killed him. You know, this big daddy, you know.
Know now he's coming back almost like he just just
had you know got a woman for the first time like you know
like yeah of course you know it's me amen i
do all this now he's a tactician he's
knows all these different things of warfare he's on
(21:22):
top of the world and what do y'all
think about how amen kind of came back after this even though we know
now that he did accidentally did this it was
bagar that don't play like he was playing and
bagar don't play she has zero intense she
don't have no we just playing around you know
flying around i think he just rolled with it
(21:43):
i think i think he i think he was he was let let less embarrassed by people
thinking that he was impulsive than thinking he wasn't in control and it was
an accident he had to apologize because i mean in real talk what was the apology
really going to do like no one would have necessarily believed it you You know
what I'm saying? Like, no one would have really believed you.
You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm sorry I murdered your son and the dragon.
(22:06):
Like, you know, that's not I'm going to pay your deductible.
I re-inged your car while I was drunk. You know what I'm saying?
I take all accountability. It's my bad.
You're sorry it's not going to really do anything. You might as well have people
in these streets think that you're a gangster versus, you know, a goofy.
So I think he just rocked with it.
I, I really, I liked how he handled himself in the small council scene.
(22:31):
I liked how he handled himself in the small council scene. I like how,
you know, because they, they, they kind of alluded to it when they alluded to it in that scene,
then they kind of actually just said it out loud later on when he's talking
to, you know, Cuxpin, but basically, you know, he has some contentious,
contentious relationship with his mother and we couldn't quite figure what it was.
(22:51):
And then later on he actually spells it out because he talks out
he talks with two tongues or both sides of her mouth or
something to that something to that effect so i really
kind of like how you know he was like listen he was he was really kind
of short and direct with her it's the kind of thing like that's as much as you
can get away with saying with your mama without really you know getting over
it like there's only so much you can say you know answer questions directly
(23:12):
but really quickly really abruptly you know that's how you really get away with
it but you You knew you wanted to be slick,
you know what I'm saying, but she couldn't really call you on it.
So, and then he – I felt afterwards. And I really liked it because – and,
again, they alluded to that later saying with him and Otto.
He still – because remember last year – last season, two seasons – Two years ago.
(23:37):
Yeah, but last season, we saw how he really didn't think a lot of Agon.
You know, he was kind of disappointed that Agon was the heir,
and he was like, this is how you're comporting yourselves, You're not really
serious. It's that and the other.
And so he it seems like he's at least attempted to reconcile however he feels
about his brother's character and his ability to be king, you know,
(23:58):
in a way that makes sense for him.
And so he to me, I got that.
He presented himself more as a military leader and more strategic.
I think he realized that he's betting more power not being king.
That's what I think he's realizing.
I get more respect by being out in these streets being a shooter. Yeah.
(24:20):
I agree with you. So that was my take on this.
Bethany? Agree. The fact when he walked into the council and they're all basically
like, what are you doing here? He's like, I was summoned.
The king summoned me. And also, don't forget, I'm the king's brother. other.
And did it give shades of Damon showing up at the council with,
(24:42):
Viserys right you know I'm your brother I've
only ever tried to to look out for
you but you only ever sent me away so so Amon
is a little less seasoned than Damon was when we were introduced to him but
I it's interesting how the show kind of glossed over the whole oh I ate up my
(25:04):
nephew I feel bad about it and kind of jumped right into the yeah so what you
gonna do about it you know, phase.
That was an interesting book.
So they did a parade for him. They did a parade and a celebration for him in
the books when he killed him.
He did indicate remorse, right? He did indicate that, listen,
(25:26):
this isn't what I tried to, this isn't what I set out to do.
I just wanted to scare him, basically.
But you think about it in the books, and that
was more the parade was Otto's dealing
right that was his doing that was his attempt to
kind of change the narrative and I mean they
may still do it like and they may still but it it's interesting and and I am
(25:50):
I read the books but I'm not a purist to the books and I understand the timing
and hey the pacing and all this has been two years and we've only got a really
short period of time to tell this story So,
you know, I'm not mad about the jump, but I agree with Scott about,
I like how he presented himself to the council and then how you kind of, as the episode went on,
(26:12):
you saw him serve himself just a little bit more once he saw that his mother's
grasp was slipping a little bit from him and how his mother's trust in her own
father, his grandfather,
was kind of starting to sway.
And so it's, it's, it's interesting to watch the nuance.
(26:33):
Agree so as we as we move on we talk about we talked about everybody talked
about the council meeting i don't know if you all realize something and it's
something i realized a little bit in the first season and why this family has
so much a chip on their shoulder the lannisters are new money,
like they were getting disrespected so now you realize why taiwan is go so hard and it's like
(26:58):
no we gotta rock this way because then you
realize why because they they had just got them gold
mines and just found out they're so they are new money and
they had to fight for respect you got to remember agon
is trying to make a with twilling lannister give a piggyback ride to a kid in
the middle of a council meeting so now and then you realize why taiwan was so
(27:20):
and the lannisters in general was so like with the lannisters never forget their
debts like we don't play around because we was getting played,
102 years before that y'all didn't know about seeing this in this situation.
It made me think, oh, wow, the Lannisters were new money.
They were new to all this regal news. I'm about to give a piggyback ride to Zlickia.
(27:43):
Is the air bothering you? Do you think Kyle Lannister and the Lannisters of
today would have had any of that go down?
Nah, Tywin wouldn't roll with that. He wouldn't roll with that at all.
But also, too, just as, you know, I'm on my right.
The fact that he, Egan, went to go get his son, to even tearing him away from
(28:08):
his lesson or his culture or whatever he had going on to bring him into the meetings.
It's kind of signaled to me that that's something that his father never did for him.
Right. So it was an interesting, he wanted his son to be a part of that.
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Right here on SOLC Network. At an earlier age, maybe he didn't get that when his father was king.
Now, did he absolutely let his son run amok during the meeting and play with the ball?
And it's almost kind of like he was enjoying it.
But the fact that he wanted his son to be there under whatever misguided notions
(29:18):
he may have had indicated a departure from what he thought his father did or
didn't do for him. And so that was interesting.
And his father, you know, he did that for Rhaenyra because she was his heir.
And so and so when he came along, he was like, I checked the box. I have a son.
He never intended for him to be the heir. So he didn't think it was valued.
(29:42):
Thank you. How to rule. And so thank you.
Yes. So I'm sure that that was him not knowing that, you know,
that probably weighed on him. But he also think he probably thinks his father
and also his father was sick. He had a lot of stuff going on.
And so, you know, there were other things that were happening.
So in his head, he's probably justifying why his father didn't prepare him to rule.
(30:05):
Not thinking his father never intended for him to rule. Never intended for him to rule.
Right. Thank you. Oh, you picked up on it.
Mom was just a companion. His mom was supposed to be a companion as he got older.
This is like Julius Irving. I think Julius Irving had like a 13 year old kid,
12 or 13 year old kid. His older kids got to learn how to play basketball with him.
(30:25):
That 13-year-old ain't out there hooping with Julius Irving. Yeah.
Yeah. And also, too, I felt like all of the scenes with Egan were –.
In the show, in the series, right? Not the book, but the show.
It appeared as though he was trying to be a decent guy.
(30:48):
You know, hey, okay, I'll give you your sheet back. And Otto was like,
no, no, you're not, because dragons need to eat.
And hey, you know, and so they called his name Egan the Magnanimous.
And he was like, magnanimous.
And all of his buddies, his frat boys, you know, was like, let me try it.
Maybe that's not going to be the word. But it seemed that in the show,
(31:09):
he was attempting to be a more giving and he wanted to be fair to the common
folk, the little folk or whatever.
But he was thwarted by the realities of being a ruler, which is, hey, we all need to eat.
These dragons need to eat. You want Vhagar to be out here protecting the city.
(31:31):
They got to eat, you know. Hey, no, no, you're not giving them their sheep back.
The dragons need the sheep so it was this interesting juxtaposition but
i think i'm when we talk about our last part with
the blood and cheese i think the blood and cheese thing changes him i'm
thinking the way they're gonna show you that changes him because that was common
folk that went in there and did that so maybe he
(31:51):
doesn't care about the car because those weren't those weren't his
enemy and soldiers those were common folks that went in there and did
that to his son i wonder if that changes his mind state where he's just like
oh the comic folk the ones they got me so i don't yeah i don't i i saw something
in one of the trailers that makes me believe they are going to address it in
(32:12):
a way comparable they address it in the books,
it's changed again i'm it was a two second snapshot but now having seen this episode,
it could be in context to what you know what happens in the book so i'm actually
pretty optimistic and hopeful that they do go down that path and talk about how it changed them.
(32:34):
I will say one thing that again, for the blood and cheese component,
what's, what's a guy, what's a guy's wife's name? His sister, Helena, Helena. Yeah.
Helena had been talking about rats for the middle of last season.
And then obviously she, you know, she did, she talked about,
she's afraid of the rats in this episode.
(32:57):
I thought it was beautiful how they kind of baited us to give us really good.
It really only gave us, what, 10, 15 minutes?
They covered that entire storyline in at best 20 minutes.
But they've been teasing it all through last season, all through this episode.
And I thought it was a really good way to extract a lot out of relatively very
(33:21):
short amount of screen time.
I thought it was a really efficient way to do so because they had you kind of
on the tip of your tongue to see whether or not they were going to introduce
a character earlier, give you more background, flesh them out a little bit more.
And they really didn't. They just, you know, it was like a page or two in the book.
They just basically, they flushed it out in a way that it's done and it's over
(33:42):
and it's an event that leads to other events.
But they did it in a way that it was fucking gripping.
No, it was. It was. It was. If you think about it, they were – we didn't know.
Like you said, it was only two – we don't know anything about Blood and Cheese.
We didn't even know that they got this whole thing where it's – we didn't even know who they were.
(34:04):
Now we see that, oh, he was a rat catcher, and then the other guy used to –
I guess he was on the Night's Watch – not Night's – the Night's Watch with – The Kings card.
The gold card. He was on the gold card. Yeah. So we didn't even know who they were.
And it's like, what happens to these people? They just fall back into the shadows.
We never hear them again.
And they're just gone. There's blood and cheese. They put in their work and they dip out.
(34:28):
The fact that they worked that into the first episode was amazing.
I feel like the show has written out that Agen and Helena's youngest, Melor, Melor?
Yeah. Correct me if I'm wrong.
All we know as viewers of the show are the twins.
(34:48):
And if you notice when when
agan went to go go see them and hey hey where's my
son sent him to the the council it's it's just
he went to go kind of speak to
the the twin girl and he he didn't quite
touch her but she shows phases and shades of being her mother's daughter she
was facing away from the camera she's away from the action and he didn't quite
(35:11):
touch her but then he immediately turns hey where's where's my son jaharis and
she's like yeah don't disturb him he's in his lessons And I'm afraid he's like.
Don't be afraid. We've got the dragons here. Nobody's going to attack us here.
And Helena says, no, not of the dragons, but of the rats.
And they go start trying to listen to Helena, you know, the dragon gamer,
(35:33):
the dragon whisperer, whatever you'd like to call it.
But she has the sight. Baby girl's got the sight, right?
And I love the way they have written her in the show that
they say without saying that she
she's different right she she senses things
she sees things she's intuitive not only
(35:54):
because she's a mother but because because she's a dragon dreamer she she's
like a prophet almost and they keep dismissing her and and he's like ah my wife
is ever an enduring mystery like don't you remember when she said the beast
beneath the boards and And Maylis blew up from the basement with Rhaenys on top of her.
You don't remember that where we almost died, but you're going to keep ignoring me now.
(36:18):
So I feel like that it's a very soft touch.
And for those who are fans of the book and the show, you can kind of see that.
And people are mad because the blood and cheese incident didn't,
you know, introduce the third child or, you know, the fact that Alicent really
should have been with them.
But it's building its own story, but kind of keeping true to the context and who she really is.
(36:48):
I like it. I like it better because, you know, practically speaking,
you know, it's HBO that the interest in that third story and how it plays out
in the book introduces some things that people are just not going to be comfortable
with on the show that, you know.
It was already bad. It was already. The things that they dropped out of that
(37:10):
scene, I'm okay with them dropping out of there because it's just certain topics.
You don't necessarily need to talk about it at show.
And, and it, the, the incident as played out still drives her character to do
the things or not do the things that we suspect that she's going to do or not do going forward.
So it was still an appropriately motivating force.
(37:31):
I understand what they're saying about Alison, not being there,
but I don't know what, without those other events, I don't know if what Allison being there gains them.
It actually proves more because she wasn't there. You asked me,
Scott, where was the Queen's Guard? Where was the King's Guard?
And that's the one change I didn't like.
(37:53):
I thought that it should have been a little bit bloodier because because her
handmaiden in the book, she dies.
Right. He kills the handmaiden when he walks in. The woman, he says,
oh, this is for the rats. She dies.
And Helena has a couple of guards there that die.
I and what I thought was I thought when after it happens and she's running down
(38:15):
the hall, she walks downstairs and she likes is startled.
I thought they were going to show a couple of dead guards there because it doesn't
really make sense that she doesn't scream, you know, considering the events, how they played out.
Once they're both enthralled enough that they're, you know, getting her son's
head and she grabs her daughter, she's running down the hall.
(38:36):
At a certain point, she should start screaming because there are guards in the castle.
And so it doesn't really make sense that she keeps her silent so much.
And I get that she's been struck and PTSD, but having another dead guard there
that they just maybe killed off screen kind of it makes it seem less suspicious
because that although it was a really impactful scene in the moment,
(38:57):
like when you go back on a rewatch,
it is a really long time that the camera follows her down the hallway.
Way. She's not moving very quickly.
She's kind of discombobulated and kind of drunk from the emotion of it all.
But considering how many guards were there when the king was just sitting there
drinking with his friends on the Iron Throne to have in the royal quarters.
(39:20):
That's what they were, right?
But that also speaks to the character that has been developed for Helena,
throughout episode, sorry, throughout season one, she is a citizen of spirit.
She does not react to stimuli the way that others do.
She, in fact, couldn't tolerate her mother's touch in the first season.
(39:41):
If you remember, at one point, Allison was trying to comfort her and she kind
of moved away from her mother's touch.
So she experiences feeling differently.
And I thought that the episode, episode one of season two really portrayed how
someone of her sensitivities might react in that instance.
(40:05):
I know a lot of people think, oh, you should have screamed.
You should have done something. No, she's acting totally, in my opinion,
totally within character, what we know her development to be.
I'm okay with her character. I'm just putting that out there. So you're right.
Yeah. You know, Bethany, me, I would have screamed and shouted and grabbed my kid and caught up.
(40:28):
But Helena is, you know, she already prophesied this.
I don't have a problem with how she reacted I'm just
saying that when they showed her
reaction which I agree is in character for her
character it actually showed a very long
walk that she's taken and she's walking down two very
(40:49):
long hallways she's walking down stairs she
gets to you know I forgot what it's called but kind of a landing area
where she has to find a direction to go and in
none of that time she doesn't see any servants and
that's what i'm saying had they
just introduced a couple dead bodies there
then a it would make that walk seem
(41:11):
more ominous and harder to feel more and more
threatened but also kind of go well why is it like how is this place this place
wasn't unguarded they just killed the people who were guarding it and so and
also too don't forget laris got rid of by his by his his affirmation got rid
of all who were loyal to Rhaenyra.
(41:33):
So he basically, he had them killed if he thought that they had a semblance of loyalty to Rhaenyra.
And remember at the beginning, you know, he's like, I replaced them all.
And, and, and Alison sent them away while she was bathing and she's scrubbing
her own self. And then she's like, yeah, leave me, leave me.
She doesn't recognize anybody. She doesn't know anybody.
(41:53):
So that could be part of it. Right. But But also, too, we, you know,
the Kingsguard and the Queensguard boss was over here piping down Allison,
you know, so they didn't have no direction.
Maybe they was over here messing around, drinking, you know,
whoring out with Amon and all the lowlifes, right? So they didn't have no direction.
(42:16):
If Aegon find out what he was doing instead of out there protecting his wife, it's going to get ugly.
Oh, man, man.
I mean, you know, I mean, Kristen Cole, I call him bitched and cold.
But I mean, you know, he is what he is. You know, he's still he's still trying to make Raniere upset.
(42:38):
And she don't even know he messing with her. Like it's like he's still I'm going
to make her feel that she ain't want to run away with me. I'm going to she going to feel this.
He is the I call it. Can I say this online? He is the bitches.
The bitches. We can we can talk about Laris. We can talk about Amen.
Agan, Christian Cole is the messiest of bitches. And I didn't need to see all that.
(43:01):
You know, because remember, he was trying to marry and wife up Rhaenyra in season one.
Hey, run away with me and raise orange orchards. Go to Ethos.
Right, Ethos. And raise orange groves. And I love you. And she's like,
please, no, not happening.
But now to see him as Alicent's lapdog, it's funny to me.
(43:26):
It's funny to me because you are the messiest of bitches.
Yeah, I mean, so Laris, I like Laris. I like Laris. He's kind of my guy.
Cole's issue is that he's too sensitive to be, like, he can't be a killer and sensitive.
You know what I'm saying? Like, he wants to be respected as a warrior,
(43:46):
but he's also real super sensitive in his feelings about everything that's going
on with him and the chicks in his life.
It's just, it's annoying. knowing. It's like, okay, dude, you're piping down
princesses and queens here. What exactly is your complaint? And you're getting paid to do it.
Got a whole foot fetish. You're not supposed to be having sex,
period. You're not supposed to be having sex, period. You're a kingdawg.
(44:08):
You're not supposed to be having sex, period.
You're all out of line. Yeah, but it's a matter of fact. Doing too much. Hashtag doing too much.
Laris and Christian Cole. Done.
And, oh, I'm sorry, can I hop back just a little bit? when Otto walked in on
Eamon and Christian Cole kind of drinking and kicking a few back and talking about it.
(44:32):
And he was like, hold on, what's y'all doing in here? What's he talking about?
And Eamon says, words are wind, words are wind. My mother speaks with two tongues.
It was to my opinion, in my opinion, indicative of the fact that he's aware
of all the machinations that are They're going on behind the scenes.
And he is...
(44:55):
Now going to attempt to kind of establish himself, not as his brother's attack
dog or lead dog, but the force.
Because without Vhagar, what do they have?
They've got extra dragons. So cool. Okay.
But Aemon knows it doesn't matter really what you say.
I've got Vhagar. And as long as I'm kind of on board with what you guys got
(45:20):
going on, then the battle falls, the war falls in in your favor.
And remember how Otto dismissed Christian? He was like, what are you doing? Get to work.
I need to talk to the prince to take the station. And did you notice,
Eamon didn't turn around.
He didn't turn around. His arms are up on the couch or the chair, whatever it is.
(45:43):
He never turned around. He never turned around. He didn't flinch.
He didn't look over his shoulder.
He waited until his grandfather walked around to his line of sight where Kristen hops immediately up.
He stands attention it hops up because and showing
showing the their respective places in the hierarchy which
i thought was a really subtle thing that they did visually without
(46:04):
fully addressing it but it was really noticeable particularly
the second view my thought was a really cool thing that
they did sorry if you look at it i don't think
he's running this i don't think he's gonna
be running all this stuff he thought oh man i'm just
gonna be the hand of the king i'm basically gonna be the
king he doesn't be tyler he doesn't
be he doesn't be a tyler but even tyler
(46:29):
was losing control of of jeffrey though similar to how they losing control of
agon agon and amen like tyler was losing a little bit of handle on him you remember
he was killing prostitutes and stuff on the low and doing all kind of crazy
stuff and he didn't want him to kill it was not on the low yeah.
(46:50):
And he didn't want him to kill Stark he told him like nah this is under the
wall nah I'm going to do something different,
So everyone thinks they're going to run someone, but when they get in there,
it's like, oh, no, I'm the king.
Let me run this. I forgot who said it in this episode.
It's like, hey, Otto was the hand to the last two kings.
(47:11):
He's not your hand. Was that Laris?
He's like, he's not your hand. He was the hand to the last two kings.
And, oh, talking to Agen, right? And he was planting the seed, right?
He was planting the seed for Agen to, at some point, be like,
you know what? You're right.
He's no friend to me. Yeah, that's my grandfather, but also to,
(47:32):
let me see what havoc I can wreak, right?
Let's see what I can get popping out here. I thought it was very clever. I like that, Laris.
Laris is everybody boy while you're there.
And then when you're not, it's every man for they self. With a foot fetish.
As long as you got pretty feet, you got his attention. Let's go.
(47:52):
Hey, we love it. Life's too short not to know what times you are.
What you do it's like
it is what it is my it is what
it is all right let's turn back to
dragon stone reneer finally finds
her son comes back what an emotional scene when jacerys comes back and is like
(48:16):
he'd already got the the note and he's just trying to just run his report and
he just couldn't finish it up you know like though but the one when he said
but the the veil and needs to have a dragon.
I was like, so like, if somebody stayed with this dragon or they just drop them
off because some of them dragons is wild.
And I don't know, like somebody needs to stay with some of these dragons.
Like how are we going to run with this protecting the field?
(48:39):
Man, I'll say one thing and I'll turn it over to Scott.
The fact that Ray Diener only spoke four words this entire episode is, I want Eamon Targaryen.
I want him. But the scene of her showing up on the beach,
finding the remains of Lucerys and Eryx, and her literally leaping off of Cyrax
(49:01):
and her grieving and Cyrax also mourning.
Mourning the death of Lucera, but also of Arax, right?
Was Arax, Cyrax's child?
I'm sorry, I may have that mixed up, but the dragons grieved too.
The dragons grieved too. And the fact that she only spoke four words this entire episode,
(49:25):
super powerful, and that her son was attempting to bring news from his travels
to the north, to the wall with, hey, we've got this support, We've got that support,
but also grieving his baby brother and the emotion between the two of them.
And she just hugs him up and so powerful, so moving. I yield.
I mean, yeah, I mean, again, I'm not going to reference the other show,
(49:48):
but, you know, in comparison to it, it was the show me versus tell me.
And so she had a ton of screen time.
But to your point, she only said four words. but her
lack of speaking she the actress
had to do a lot carry a lot of weight emotionally conveying
you know what she was going through of showing her grief showing her her disillusionment
(50:13):
and all those things and then the that simple task became too difficult for
them both to continue to put up the pretense to fight through it and it would
it just wound up being really powerful and.
I think a lot of times writers can get to a position where they feel they have
to dumb down things for the audience.
(50:35):
But, you know, I believe that most writers can trust the audience a little bit
more with more complicated, more nuanced types of relationships and emotions.
You already dropped the bomb.
Her child is dead. Her dragon's dead.
She's already going through the loss of her father pretty recently.
And also the loss of her title on her station. she's
(50:57):
dealing with a lot we were there we watched it
so you can trust us to understand that she is processing grief
you know and on several different ways and several different
levels and by her being unable to put it into words it says all we really need
to know because when she finally formulated words it was the person i blame
(51:18):
for this pain i want punished and so uh and so i think again i Just shout out
to the writers. Just shout out to the writers.
And the actors, because that was so...
She carried an episode with four words. Four.
And it harkened back to at the beginning when Rainice was basically telling
(51:40):
David, I'm not here for none of your bullshit.
Like, you know, I'm a mother. I know what she's going through.
You don't know what she's going through, but I know what she's going through.
And it's not going to be until...
Because he said, well, she's been away for days. She hasn't come back.
She's unprotected. She didn't take any protection with her. And Rhaenys was like.
She has to settle it within her spirit. She's got to settle it within her soul
(52:02):
to find visual proof that her child is gone.
And she'll be out there as long as it takes. And until she finds it,
then this is what we're going to do. I'm going to patrol with my lease.
You can order me to the skies. I'm not going to do it. But until my queen orders
me to do something, then I'll do something.
But again, to your point, referencing that scene,
(52:25):
they have a, what is it called, a reliable narrator tell us things about a different
character from a perspective that we believe,
that we saw them go through, and we believe that they are an expert on this field.
So then they use that opportunity to narratively tell us something about Rhaenyra
(52:45):
without having Rhaenyra say it, but then use that opportunity to both expand
on Daemon's and Rhaenys' characters.
It builds on their relationship. It shows contention between them.
It shows that they're both more peers than one in deference to each other,
that she's not afraid of him, that he thinks that she should be or she should
(53:06):
listen to him. So they communicate all these things about three different characters.
One never says a word about it. And then they flush out two different characters
and their relationship in an argument while informing you about the third.
It's just really good writing.
Like, it's just really, really good writing. Beautifully, beautifully written.
And it's acting well, too. It's acting well, too. What do you say, Scott?
(53:29):
It's not lazy storytelling.
Yeah. It's not, it's trusting the viewers with what we already know, right?
Versus what we think is going to happen, but allowing us to,
to come to the conclusion organically.
It was beautifully written. If they don't get an award for that,
for episode one, then I'm a monkey's uncle and we should just stop this podcast.
(53:53):
I don't know. Yeah. I mean, it was just, I mean, it was just,
and that's the thing. I mean, I had a couple issues with the episode.
I mean, nothing really major, but.
What wasn't the issue was how well they communicated the things they wanted to communicate.
There are a couple of things that I didn't think they should have communicated
or they could have communicated in a way that was more toward my liking.
(54:13):
But I don't think they did anything wrong. It's just not the way I would have taken it.
But I feel like I know what the writers were trying to get us to understand
and communicate from start to finish in the episode.
And whether I agree with all the decisions, like, you know, not having enough
dead bodies there at the end in the blood and cheese scenes,
or, you know, some of the components we talked about, you know,
(54:34):
the unnecessary component of Aegon complaining about Aemon,
you know, to his friends for no reason because he didn't understand what magnanimous
meant seemed a little bit superfluous for me. But again, no, not a huge deal.
Not a huge deal. You know what I'm saying? But it wasn't a huge deal.
But I believe that I understood how the writers let the breadcrumbs for the
(54:56):
actual viewers to say, hey, listen, these are the things that are important.
And whether you see they're important now, when it does become important.
You're going to be able to call back this conversation, this scene,
this reaction, the way that they were speaking.
So it'll have its impact when it's decided to. And I just thought that was a
really great job, a really great writing job.
Out again the actors i mean the actors
(55:17):
are all you know really excellent actors i've been following matt
smith ever since he was doctor who so you know i'm always a
fan i just thought the writing was great yeah what
so so as we wrap up what do you guys think we're going to see in this season
overall like where are we where are we going you all think you're for the rest
of this season i suspend judgment i suspend judgment because the fact that we
(55:39):
got blood and cheese in episode one has completely upended my timeline of what
I thought was going to happen.
I suspend judgment and I cannot wait to see it kind of unfold. So.
That's me. I think we're going to get an episode and a half of Helena and Aegon melting down.
(56:01):
And then the repercussions of their meltdown. So I think that they gave us the
inciting act in episode one.
I think episode two, maybe the first half or three quarters of it is going to
be the emotional, the emotional outbreak or breakdown of Helena and Agon.
(56:23):
And then they're going to make some decisions that may or may not seem rash.
And it's going to. So episodes two and three are going to be how they respond
to it, both emotionally and actually tactically.
And so i think that's what the next two episodes are going to be i don't want to speculate as
to what they are because i'm going to be speculating mostly on
(56:44):
what is in the book versus what i think the story writers are going to
do i do think they're going to deviate book again but i
do think that there are a couple scenes that i can
think of in a book that i'm pretty sure that they're going to have in
there you know i'd be really interested
to see and this is why i say say that because i'd be
really interested to see how the writers handle
(57:06):
blood and cheese going here on out because okay according to episode one they're
supposed to be meeting damon at what is it not harkington uh harrenhal yeah
they're supposed to be like harrenhal but we don't have any.
Notion at this point that damon has
(57:29):
any control of harrenhal right i don't
think that they mentioned that they did i
missed it so i'd be interested to see how
they're handling that because they didn't introduce it that's a place damon
could reasonably be right to my knowledge they're all in dragonstone and no
place else right so it's a dragonstone correct you're right go ahead yeah so
(57:52):
So I'd be interested to see how they handle that component.
And so going forward, that's why I think the next two episodes are going to
be more emotionally how Aegon and Helena handle it, because I don't think they've
set up enough for Harrenhal yet.
At this point in time, the story. And so they have to evolve that in the next episode or two.
Can I say one thing and then I'm done? Can we call it the cloak that Dabin dons
(58:18):
every time bad shit happens? Can we call it the murder cloak?
The murder cloak is something bad is going to happen.
And also, too, in the books, it doesn't really expressly stated in the in the in the show.
But how the gold cloaks are loyal to Damon when, when he showed up with that,
(58:40):
with the murder cloak on and he was like, yeah, I heard you hate the high towers.
Do was like, yeah, fuck the high towers.
It doesn't matter who's in power because Damon is the one who gave them the
gold cloaks before he donned them with those, with, with, with the,
with the cloaks, they were laughed at.
They were ridiculed. he turned the
(59:03):
king's guard into the king's guard
right which is why the gentleman from season
one after the saris died and
they're trying to you know usurp power and figure it out in the council the
the the captain of the king's guard he he rips his cloak off he was like i am
the captain of the king's guard and seeing that there is no king i have no place
(59:25):
here so after christian cold bashed the elder's head in on the table and he walked away.
They are effectively loyal to Damon.
So whenever he shows up with the murder cloak and the money, bad things happen.
A lot of takes you. Fuck the high towers, right?
(59:50):
My question is with Bethany, do they not know that the gold cloaks are his people
why don't they just get a whole new section if don't do that or do they don't
not not know that those is folks.
I think that they haven't considered it, right?
It's not that they don't know. It's that they haven't considered that loyalty.
(01:00:12):
You remember, Laris got rid of all the ladies-in-waiting or the guards to the
royal family who he felt were loyal to Rhaenyra.
They haven't yet turned that eye to the Kingsguard and the Goldcloaks because
it hasn't occurred to them yet.
Who would know? I mean, who would know? No, the only person who could possibly
(01:00:34):
even have the information is Otto, but Otto could have assumed that the loyalty was to the crown.
The crown. Exactly. And so there's no one there's no one that is in the inner
circle enough to have the context in order to know what this heiress is gone.
This heiress could have told him. Damon could have told him,
(01:00:57):
but it's something he's using to his advantage. Rhaenyra could have told him.
Rhaenyra could have told him. Rhaenys could have told him. Literally anybody who's not a Hightower.
And if Christian had been paying attention instead of getting,
you know, blowing the brains out the back out of the Dowager Queen,
he could have told him because Daemon made him too. Right. So it's interesting.
(01:01:19):
Hey, I didn't even think about that. And it's basically just got constant spies there if he needs them.
Yeah. and spies and
spies who have incredible levels of access incredible levels because if they
had been on if Christian Cole had been on his job maybe well as the show runners
(01:01:41):
tell it maybe the King's heir J.
Harris could have been spared because he had people on watch but he was too busy having.
Rapid thunder and a lightning it's cool I mean but also they accidentally Stumbled
upon this situation too Which was funny that the whale was like.
(01:02:01):
Man let's just get up out of here oh there goes son right there let's just go
get this we can get up out and get out shit and so i'm sorry one more thing
that'll be done for me the fact that helena who who shirked her mother's embrace
last season the fact that she grabbed up her remaining baby,
and ran to her mother's rooms that was
(01:02:24):
unguarded speaks a lot it speaks volumes you
know she didn't want to be touched by her mother she don't want to
be touched by anybody you know she she's always kind
of aloof one you know standing a step away the
fact that she grabbed up her baby and ran to where she thought she could get
some help and that happened to be her mother's room that that's very very telling
(01:02:46):
very very telling for her and that the dude that's been guarding you was in
this room with your mom knocking her boot and she she may not have even noticed
it like she just got to the
place where she thought she was safe maybe she'll process it doubt it but i
found it interesting because i'm like hey what's going on here ain't you supposed to be on duty.
Cold not on duty literally not on duty also it was it was it was kind of terrifying
(01:03:11):
not terrifying but kind of heartbreaking when she when when allison asked selena
what are you doing and she goes, they killed the boy. They killed the boy.
It was just super very detached. They killed the boy.
I'm holding my daughter. You don't see my daughter's twin.
They killed the boy. You hopping off the dick. I'm just saying.
(01:03:35):
Man, it was.
Heartbreaking to actually see it. Yeah, I can see it.
Alright, so we got back no go ahead sorry go ahead go ahead go ahead scott i
was just gonna say just no no no go ahead you're good a final component was
just as much as different as that was from what was in the book actually seeing
(01:03:58):
it was still kind of hard to watch so i'm glad they didn't boo what was in the book,
same same because you could hear it even
what i heard the the audio of of
hearing that yeah it was it was a lot for me and
upon my second viewing i was like yeah i
actually muted the tv during that it was
(01:04:21):
that bad for me i was like yeah that's that's that's traumatic she's
got ptsd for sure for sure right i got
ptsd it wasn't even a real baby it wasn't my baby so you know so like i said
that was a change i was completely fine with so i'm sorry d go ahead oh no no
no no i was just wrapping this up you know we finna get back at it we're glad
to see everybody we'll be back next week with episode two peace.
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