June 23, 2025 • 35 mins
In this episode of The Last Honest Realtor, David Fleming exposes the costly cycle of builder homes hitting Toronto’s market at fantasy prices—again and again. Every new build, the same result: a sky-high listing, a string of failed agents, and a year spent chasing buyers who never come.
From the scorpion-and-frog parable to brutal, fact-driven case studies, David breaks down why builders stubbornly ignore local tastes, overvalue irrelevant features, and sabotage their own sales—all while the neighbourhood looks on in disbelief.
In This Episode:
- Why every new builder home in Toronto launches at 20% over market value—and stays there
- The critical mistakes out-of-area builders make when they ignore the local buyer
- How hiring the wrong agent costs sellers time, money, and brand reputation
- The features nobody wants: pools, basement apartments, and gaudy finishes that drive buyers away
- Why serial price drops and relistings destroy buyer trust and erode value
- What actually works: understanding neighbourhood demand, staging, and fit-for-market design
- The economics of ego: how builders talk themselves out of a deal, every single time
Timestamps:
00:00 – Intro: Why every new builder home is overpriced, every single time
01:22 – The scorpion and the builder: a parable for Toronto real estate
05:10 – Out-of-area builders: repeating the same mistakes
10:45 – What buyers actually want (and what they’ll never pay for)
19:04 – The price drop dance: relistings, terminated agents, and wasted months
25:25 – Reputation, brand, and the agent that actually gets it sold
32:15 – Closing thoughts: adapt, or stay stuck on the market
Subscribe, comment, and share this episode with anyone convinced that “their” new build is the one exception.
Bosley Real Estate: Family-owned since 1928, delivering trusted real estate services across Ontario.
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
Subscribe and Follow:
Toronto Realty Group Website
Toronto Realty Group YouTube
Toronto Realty Blog Instagram
Toronto Realty Blog Twitter
Toronto Realty Blog Facebook
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Every new builder home that comes to the market in
the city of Toronto is massivelyoverpriced every single time.
Hello, everybody, and welcomeback to the Last Honest Realty
Podcast.
I'm your host, David Fleming.
Now, we have seen this before.
The house is torn down.
A new one's built in this place.
It's a mansion.
(00:20):
It's beautiful.
It's sparkling.
The dumpster's been removed.
The fence has been taken down.
They've sodded the front lawn.
We hope, although that's one ofthe things builders don't do
properly, which is in my listand we'll come back to.
And the property is listed forsale on MLS.
The price?
Is that a typo?
No, it's not?
Seriously?
Why is that?
(00:40):
Why is every single builder homebrought out on the market at a
price that makes absolutely nosense and then subsequently
terminated and relisted andrelisted and changed the agent
and changed the price andchanged the listing strategy
every single time.
That is what we're gonna talkabout today in what I think will
be a very fun post.
It's gonna be full of anecdotesand stories.
(01:01):
My colleague Tara and I recentlyhad an experience with a
builder, kinda was the impetusfor this today.
Walked the builder through everysingle thing that other builders
do wrong And well, you're gonnafind out what we did in the end.
But first, a story.
First, a childhood story, afable, if you will, an anecdote,
an analogy, the frog and thescorpion.
(01:22):
If you haven't heard the oneabout the frog and the scorpion,
well, I don't know, you hadcrappy parents, although mine
never told me about that.
So yeah, I'm gonna talk to mymom about it.
The frog and the scorpion, itgoes like this.
Very simply, a scorpion wants tocross the pond.
The scorpion says to a frog, canI please climb on your back?
Will you carry me across?
And the frog says, you're ascorpion.
(01:43):
You're gonna sting me.
Scorpion says, I'm not gonnasting you because if we're
halfway across and I sting you,we're both gonna die.
Now with that kind of logic, thefrog says, yeah, he's absolutely
right.
That would make no sense forhim.
So the scorpion gets on thefrog's back and they start
floating on a lily pad orwhatever it is across.
About halfway through, thescorpion stings the frog.
(02:08):
And the frog says, I don'tunderstand.
You said you wouldn't do this,and not only that, I am going to
die, and you're gonna drown withme.
And what does the scorpion say?
I'm sorry, I'm a scorpion.
Let that sink in for a moment.
And if you're telling this toyour eight-year-old child,
they're probably gonna be upset.
(02:28):
The point to this story, or thisfable, is very simple.
A scorpion's a scorpion, and inthat case, the scorpion just
said, I'm a scorpion, and Isting, that's what I do, even if
it's to my own detriment.
Do you see where I'm going withthis, folks?
Builders in the city of Torontoroutinely make the same mistakes
over and over and over.
And I'm not talking about condobuilders.
(02:48):
We're talking about infillhomes.
So somebody buys a bungalow on a40 by 130 foot lot in North
Toronto and they tear it downand they build a beautiful new
home.
But what we see from there onout is the same every single
time.
They overprice it.
They list it seven times.
They have three different agentsand it takes them a year to
(03:09):
sell.
But it's not just the pricing.
It is everything else that goesinto so many of these builder
homes.
And that's what I want to talkabout today.
So I'll tell you this.
Tara and I got a phone call froma builder, and we're going to
call the area of the city ofToronto Verona.
It's a Romeo and Julietreference.
(03:33):
So in Fair Verona, where welive, it's...
Well, upper middle class, let'ssay.
It's a very close-knitcommunity, and yes, there are
developers in the area.
Now, a typical developer in thisarea is building a beautiful red
brick home that fits in with allthe others in the area, and I
feel like that's what the buyersreally want.
(03:53):
But the builders, theout-of-area builders, they come
in and they ply their trade timeand time again.
They build the stucco homes,they build the sleek glass
monsters, they build the thingsthe local residents really don't
want now that's the first pointthat i will make but we were
called in to look at one ofthese houses and we decided
nothing to lose here let's puttogether a presentation and in
(04:15):
that presentation we will gothrough the following what
buyers think about most builderhomes in fair verona where we
live and then what agents thinkwe will lay it all out and we
will use examples and in the endwe will say mr builder would you
like to list and sell thisproperty the way that we think
it should be.
Let me walk you through this.
(04:36):
The first point that we made toMr.
Builder, while looking at whatbuyers think of these builder
homes, buyers think, and we didresearch for this, this is what
we had asked a bunch of peoplein Verona, buyers say, builder
homes are always price high andwill come down in price.
Therefore, there's no rush tosee the property.
A house comes out for$4 millionand the neighbors are aghast.
(04:57):
The buyers in the area look atit And they see, has it been
listed before?
No, it's a brand new build.
It's owned by a numbered corp.
They don't come see it.
Why?
Because they know it's not goingto sell and they know it's going
to be reduced.
This is across the board whatevery single buyer in this area
we call Verona believes.
(05:17):
And we received this commentmultiple times.
Now, the second thing the peoplein Verona said, is that most of
the folks representing the housedon't understand them and their
needs.
Now, if that sounds snobby, it'sbecause it is.
But if this community is veryinsulated, and one of the points
that we had made was that thebuilders don't hire an agent
(05:38):
from Verona.
They hire their outside agent,their 905-er, if you will.
Now, that...
Could save them some money,sure.
If that agent's doing it on thecheap, that agent might be
somebody they've worked withbefore.
But there's something to be saidfor the brand value.
And I'm losing some of you herein the YouTube comments who are
gonna say I don't care.
The brand value of the agent andthe brokerage.
SPEAKER_00 (05:58):
Yeah,
SPEAKER_01 (05:58):
it's a real thing in Verona.
You can call it snobby, butthat's fine.
You don't think the guy sellingthe Mercedes or buying it or
manufacturing it is a little bitmore snobby?
than the guy, I don't know,riding the bike.
So the outsiders looking intoFair Verona.
This is how some of the folkssee both the builder and the
agent.
Again, the snob factor.
But what they are saying is thatthey don't really understand us.
(06:21):
Who are we?
What are our values?
What are we like in homes?
Don't just come here, build ahouse that you would build where
you're from, in your area, inother areas you've worked in,
and then tell us why this houseis so great.
Now, money is always spent inthe wrong places.
This is something that a lotthat a lot of buyers had said.
The buyers believe that buildersvalue function over form and
(06:43):
that layout, flow, and usabilityare more important than
finishes.
So I will go off on a tangentvery shortly and give you an
example.
There are two resale homes forsale on the same street.
One of them is absolutelygorgeous and renovated.
The basement is only theoriginal footprint, has not been
excavated, and the main floorhas a bump out, but upstairs
does not.
(07:04):
A house down the block has thefull basement that was excavated
about 20 years ago, and it hasthe full second level, but it's
really tired, has been renovatedsince the year 2000.
Which of those properties do youthink I'm gonna push for?
The second one, you can changethe finishes in a home.
Now, yes, you can excavate abasement, but that smaller house
(07:27):
that's, say, 2,800 square feetand doesn't have the extension,
and thus you lack the function,the flow, and the future for you
to grow into with your family,it might have great finishes.
But the house down the streetthat has all the space you need,
or the best example is a newhome that has 12-foot ceilings
and an older home that has eightfoot, you can never change that.
But sure, the Wolf range isprettier than the Amana one.
(07:49):
The point being here, guys, isthat people in Verona, they
understand the lifestyle and thelife cycle.
They want the flow, they wantthe layout, they want the
functionality, how they livetheir lives.
And that Wolf range, it's prettyand all, but they could go buy
one themselves.
You've used expensive tile, goodfor you.
(08:10):
Hell, you've put tile all overthe walls.
Your moldings are expensive, andon and on and on.
The people in Fair Verona don'tvalue that.
And the last point, and this iskind of funny, is that people in
Verona say that these builderhomes have no warmth and no
character.
They have no story, they have nohistory.
Now you can tell me, okay,you're just romanticizing it,
(08:32):
but there's something to be saidfor a culture and a demographic
that wants brand new, neverlived in, and the other folks
that say, no, I don't like that.
I want the house to have a soul.
Call it cheesy, I can make anargument either way.
Now, what do agents think?
And these are the points.
I interviewed some folks in myoffice.
And these are the points that weput up on the screen for Mr.
(08:53):
Builder and really sort ofhammered away.
Because this isn't my opinion.
This is fact.
And I played it off as one orboth while we were presenting to
Mr.
Builder.
And at the end of the day, thequestion I'll ask you is, did
Mr.
Builder agree?
Now, the first point that Imade, builders don't build for
users within that market.
(09:14):
Now, if you had built 10 housesin...
East York.
And then you decided you weregoing to build in Lawrence Park.
Suffice it to say, you can'tjust pick up your East York home
and move it to Lawrence Park.
If you're a home builder inDurham region and you decide
that you're going to build inthe beach, hey, listen, you've
got a learning curve.
So what we typically see isthat, and take Leaside around
(09:37):
the corner from me right now.
When I got into this business,it was like, all the original
bungalows sitting on prime 30 by120 foot lots, and you saw all
the builders come along, theytear it down, they build a new
one, and that's when we startedgetting the stucco homes instead
of the red brick, and over timethey went back to red brick, and
there's been all kinds ofdifferent folks applying their
trade in that area.
But a lot of those builders, itwas like their first big
(10:01):
project.
Maybe they'd flipped a house ormaybe they'd renovated one, but
to actually tear one down andbuild a new, you see a lot of
builders in Fair Verona doingexactly that.
They're not building for userswithin that market.
And I'll typecast here and tellme there's a snob factor.
Let's say you have somebody thatbuilds in Richmond Hill.
(10:22):
Then they decide they're gonnabuild in the aforementioned
Lawrence Park or in Moore Parkor in Rosedale.
You can't pick up that vibe,that design, that style, and
everything that you know aboutthat demographic and then plop
it down in a new area and expectit to transfer.
Now the next point, and I reallywant to stress this one.
(10:42):
Builders often include featuresthat are valued by other buyers
in other markets, but not inthis market.
I'll give you an example in FairVerona where we live.
The builder put in a basementapartment.
In Fair Verona, Those folksdon't want basement apartments.
(11:04):
Now, there's several reasons,and again, you might say, oh,
it's just a basement apartment,but I'm telling you, this is
what builders do.
The builder comes from an areawhere they say basement
apartments are really importantand they add tremendous value
because you can rent it out andget income to pay your mortgage,
or if you're amulti-generational family,
you've got that downstairs, orwhat?
(11:24):
What else could we use that for?
The point is, in Fair Verona,The buyer wants a basement that
has a rec room, which is for thekid's playroom or the man cave,
woman cave if you think I'mbeing sexist.
They want an extra bedroom formom and dad when they come or
for the teenager.
They want the bathroom.
They want the same layout.
(11:45):
Don't rewrite this.
Don't rock the boat.
Don't reinvent the wheel,whatever analogy it is that I'm
looking for.
And then you go and put abasement apartment in.
Now here's where the snobfactor's gonna come in.
And this is what I told Mr.
Builder.
In Fair Verona, People don'twant basement apartments because
they don't want their neighborsto think that they need the
income.
(12:07):
And that's something that'scoming from a local agent who
works the area and can tell you,yes, this sounds crappy and it's
snobby, but it's true.
Builders don't know this.
And more often than not, theydon't care.
They disagree.
They come from an area wherethey put their basement
apartments in and they saythings like, well, we want to
have the option.
I am telling you, figure outwhat the people in this area
(12:29):
want in Fair Verona.
They want a red brick house.
You built a glass and stuccomonster.
They want a beautiful rec roomin the basement.
They want it carpeted.
And you built this basementapartment with your hardwood
floors that, yeah, people likehardwood.
I get it.
But you're not feeling the vibehere.
People in Fair Verona, they have2.3 children on average.
You know, their kids go toprivate school and, you know,
they're named Todd and Rebecca.
(12:51):
and they want a basement recroom, not a basement apartment.
They also don't want a pool inthe backyard.
I'll tell you what, in FairVerona where we live, the buyer
who wants a pool finds a housethat they want, then they put in
a pool.
A buyer who wants a pool inVerona doesn't target a house
(13:13):
with a pool.
Think about that logic for aminute.
Do you follow?
You want a house with a pool.
You're not looking for houseswith existing pools.
The fact that there's a poolthere makes absolutely no
difference about whether or notyou want that house.
A B minus house on a D minusstreet with a pool, no.
(13:34):
The buyer wants the A house onthe A street that's got a big
tree in the backyard thatthey're gonna accidentally kill
with your basic 14 inch drillbit and rat poison and then
they're gonna reply to the cityto have it cut down because they
don't care and then they'regonna build a pool in the
backyard.
Sorry, I went off the rails withthe analogy, but you get what
I'm saying.
(13:54):
I'm saying that a builder puts apool in because they think it
adds value.
It doesn't.
More to the point, it detractsthe things that people don't
want in this area.
They don't want a basementapartment.
They don't want a pool.
They don't want tile on everysingle wall.
They don't want a laser lightshow in the living room.
You know the ceilings that havethe built-in purple lights?
People don't want that.
(14:15):
You know what else they don'twant?
They don't want one of thosestones on the front lawn that
has the address carved into itin cursive writing.
497 Fake Street.
They don't want that.
They want 497.
They don't even want, and Iactually had a client once that
(14:35):
said no to a house because itwas carved into the awning above
the front of the home.
Now, I wouldn't say it was justthat, but the minute she walked
up, she was like, I don't likethis.
I don't like this style.
Walked into the house and thestyle was not hers.
The point is that was the firstimpression.
Something that small, you haveto know your demographic.
You have to know your market.
(14:56):
And builders continue to dothis.
They take the things thatthey've learned in other areas.
They don't research the area,especially in Fair Verona where
we live.
And they put all kinds offeatures in here that buyers
don't want.
Now, this next point goes partand parcel with what I just
said.
Builders will overvalue items ofless importance and undervalue
items of greater importance.
(15:16):
So what I mean by that is thebuilder will say, I've got a
pool.
It cost them 100,000 to put in.
Congratulations, you've reducedthe value of this home by
200,000.
What are you talking about?
It cost me 100 grand.
No, they don't want a pool.
This is a 30 by 120 foot lot andthe entire backyard is now pool.
There is nothing out here.
(15:36):
If you had a 36 by 130 on adifferent street, I still
wouldn't build the pool becauseyou're gonna catch more flies
with honey, right?
There's more buyers that don'twant a pool.
Why would you put something inthat more than 51% of people
don't want?
And I would honestly estimatethat, I don't know, 80, 90% of
(15:57):
buyers do not want a pool.
I mean, my best friend Jeffbought a place in Mississauga
and it had a pool.
He's like, I'm not a pool guy.
You show up two years later,he's got the floaty, he's got
the noodles, he's testing the pHbalance.
Excuse me if I got thatincorrect.
Now he's Mr.
Pool Guy.
But the point is, if you're abuilder and you put a pool in a
backyard because you think it'sadding value, it doesn't.
(16:18):
And I'll tell you what elsedoesn't add value.
Your Tarion warranty.
The buyer doesn't care becausethe buyer doesn't know.
Now, it's my job as a realestate agent representing the
seller and trying to stress thevalue of that to drive home the
seven-year tariff warranty, butthe buyer does not care.
So the builders will overvaluethings like that.
And they'll talk about thefiberglass insulation, the
(16:41):
acoustic, you know, soundattenuation.
Like, listen, there are a lot ofthings that you've done to this
house that are great, butunfortunately, it may not
translate with the buyer.
And I'll tell you one otherthing.
about this particular house thatwe saw.
The builder jammed five bedroomsinto a footprint that was
(17:01):
perfect for four bedrooms.
The builder said, I have afive-bedroom house.
In Verona, no one really wantsfive bedrooms.
They want four.
They want four and one in thebasement.
And they want those fourbedrooms to have a primary en
suite, and then either onebathroom to service the three
kids' bedrooms, or the one Jackand Jill, and then if you're my
(17:25):
sister growing up, she got herown bathroom.
It's not rocket science.
Don't reinvent the wheel.
Do your research and see whatpeople want in that area.
But no, the builder jams fivebedrooms in and they're frickin'
tiny, and the worst part is themaster bedroom, not supposed to
say master anymore, the primarybedroom has no en suite closet.
(17:45):
It has two double door closetsnext to each other, And we're
talking$4 million.
Who's buying that house inVerona without a walk-in closet?
I'm a typecast.
Does the woman want the housewithout the walk-in closet?
I mean, it could be the man too.
You know, the guy like in RayDonovan, right?
He's got to have the littlecenter console for all of his
(18:06):
different Rolex watches, his tiesquares.
You know, the guy that foldsindividual underwears and puts
them in buckets.
That's what they want.
And the builder crammed fivebedrooms into a four-bedroom
floor plan.
They're overvaluing...
The fact they have fivebedrooms, they're overvaluing
their pool, they're overvaluingtheir Tarion warranty, they're
overvaluing everything in thehouse that they like personally
(18:29):
or that they've done in otherareas.
They're undervaluing things thatthe buyers want.
The buyer wants a walk-incloset.
The buyer wants four bedrooms.
The buyer wants the Wolf range.
The buyer wants what the buyerwants.
Give the buyer what they want.
Now, builders typicallyovervalue the home.
They list high, they reduce overtime.
(18:49):
This was what the buyer feedbackwas.
This is what the agent feedbackwas.
So what Tara and I did in ourpresentation in Fair Verona, we
found three builder homes and weput them up and we named them
listing one, listing two,listing three, listing four, and
so on and so forth.
So you take a house in Verona,it's listed for 3998, sit in the
(19:12):
market for 120 days.
They relist at 3798.
Sits in the market for 120 days.
They terminate the listing withthat agent.
They bring it out with a newone, right?
Fire the coach, not the player.
And now they bring it out at3198 with an offer date.
Well, that doesn't work.
They increase the price to 3798.
It sits for another 90 days, andthey terminate.
They fire that agent.
(19:32):
They hire a new agent.
Bring it out at 3698.
They're on the market for 120days.
They terminate.
Now they bring it out at 2999with an offer date.
It doesn't work.
Do you see where I'm going withthis?
and eventually they sell itafter 16 months for$3.4 million
as the market goes up and down,up and down, up and down.
Now tell me that I'm asalesperson, I don't care what
(19:54):
it sells for, I want it at thelowest possible price, and the
entire argument I'm making todayis simply I want to dump this
property.
No, it's not the point I'mmaking.
The point I'm making is that Iunderstand the economics behind
home building, and there is acost associated with carrying a
property.
Now there's also a risk-rewardbetween pricing at fair market
value and moving it quickly, andmaybe hanging on just a little
(20:15):
bit longer to see if you can geta little bit more.
We're not talking about that.
We're talking about houses thatroutinely are listed for$4
million that are worth$3million.
Three, two, three, four, three,six.
It happens over and over andover.
So when Tara and I had thebuilder from Verona, we showed
these houses and a couple ofthem never sold.
(20:38):
you can't really deny thatthat's how builders price, and I
wouldn't say sell, attempt tosell.
Now, buyers typically, excuseme, builders typically hire
out-of-area agents, and thislowers the value in the eyes of
the buyers.
Now, I'm gonna lose some of youhere, and that's fine.
You got your discount agent, youknow, it's great, or your buddy
(20:58):
that's got a part-time job andsells houses.
In Fair Verona, and I'm notgonna name names, but let's say
that there's broker J.,brokerage B, and brokerage C.
All of them are verytraditional, high-end,
established firms.
And many of them have realtorsthat live in the area.
(21:18):
When you put those signs on thelawn, and you could be watching
this from anywhere in Canada andthe world, and you're like, I
don't agree, I am telling you, Istake my reputation on it, that
those signs, they make thebuyers feel comfortable.
The buyers like what they know.
Right, so let me use where I am,Bosley Real Estate as an
example.
And yes, Bosley is one of thecompanies that routinely works
(21:40):
in Verona.
The Bosley sign goes up, it'sred, it's white, it's got a name
they know, it's got a brand theyknow, it's been around forever.
They sponsor the local what?
Carnival, hand out pies in thepark, cake decorating contests
right in the community, theskate, et cetera, and a couple
of other firms.
Builders always hire, and Ican't name names because I'll
(22:01):
get sued, builders always hireXYZ Real Estate from Markham,
right?
Builder hires the agent from ABCRealty Discount Corp, Fly By
Night, Miracle, Hollywood,whatever they throw words in
there.
ABC Hollywood All-StarBrokerage, right?
With a guy you've never heardof, a gal who's got her face on
(22:24):
the sign.
This is not a face on the signkind of area.
And I'm sorry, guys.
The buyers don't like that.
And if you don't like what I'msaying and it's snobby or it's
egotistical or what have you, itdoesn't make me wrong.
And you can think of analogiesin other industries.
(22:46):
That's just the way that it isin Fair Verona.
Now, builders use very distinct,often ornate finishes that can
clash with prevailing styles,trends, and desires within
specific neighborhoods.
Let's be blunt and say thatdifferent people, ages,
(23:08):
cultures, nationalities,backgrounds, value different
things.
Just as some cultures take theirshoes off before they come in
the house, others find itoffensive to take your shoes off
before you come in the house.
If you're in an area that isdominated by a certain culture
and you're building and notadhering to the desires and
(23:30):
designs aesthetically, Well,they're not gonna like it.
So take Fair Verona whereeverything's dark and it's black
granite and it's gold everywhereand you've got that purple, it's
like Vin Diesel crashed his carinto the living room, right?
People in this area, they wanttraditional crown molding.
They want wainscoting.
(23:51):
They'd like a coffered ceiling.
And you've got the dentalmolding from the 905 and you've
got that purple light goingaround it.
Builders routinely fail toinvestigate the level of finish.
And what's more is you combinethis with things like builders
overvalue items of lessimportance and undervalue items
of greater importance.
They will go to their gravesaying, I brought this tile from
(24:14):
so and so in such and suchplace.
Dude, listen, if you could getyour tile from two blocks away
and it's what the buyers want,you're better off.
So yes, sometimes the buyers aresnobs, as I've mentioned.
They like what they like.
They like local agents and brandvalue and such.
And they might like somethingthat's not as good, right?
I'm not the, you know, I wasgonna say I'm not the handbag
(24:36):
guy, obviously, but like, youknow, the people that want the
Louis Vuitton or even theBirkin, I can't believe I know
what that is.
And then there's other peoplethat are like, no, I'm cool with
like my Michael Kors orwhatever.
Some people like the super fancyand others don't.
But in this analogy, some peopledon't carry a purse at all.
And you've got to look at thatand say, yes, in this area, they
might like nice things.
(24:56):
But you can have a nice...
quartz countertop that's whiteand light versus a much more
expensive, much more rare, darkblack granite counter with gold
speckles that the people in thearea don't want.
Hire a designer.
Build it into the cost.
In fact, hire a local agent,which again, they never do, to
(25:17):
explain to you what thedemographic in this area
desires.
The last point here, builderhouses typically sell via the
second or third agent to listthe home.
We put this in our presentation.
And I said to Mr.
Builder, listen, I mean, we'dlove to work with you and all,
but statistically, we're notselling this house.
(25:40):
And he said, what do you mean?
You know, I believe in you guys.
Let's go, let's work together.
I said, no.
The three properties that weshowed you, the examples of
builders in Fair Verona, listingover and over and over, two of
those had three different agentsthat sold, and then one of them
that hadn't sold Theyterminated, but they had been on
(26:00):
their second agent.
That's very, very common.
So put all this together, andwe're sitting there, and we've
presented this to Mr.
Builder.
And what do you think Mr.
Builder said?
We valued the home at$3.2million.
(26:21):
The builder said that he wantedto list it for 3.7.
Yeah.
That is exactly what weexpected.
And I said, do you remember whenI said the builder houses are
listed over and over and over?
He debated us on the value.
So we then went and we looked atthe comparable sales.
And when I asked somebody arhetorical question, do you see
(26:42):
this house here?
Is this house better than yours?
The answer is yes, because it'son a better street, a block from
the school, It's the style thatpeople want.
It's a bigger lot, and so on andso forth.
And his answer was, no, and I'lltell you why.
And then went on to talk aboutall the features of the house
that the buyers don't want, allthe money they had spent on
things that don't matter, andthen quoting comparable sales
(27:03):
from 2022 at the peak of themarket.
So what ends up happening hereis that there's not a meeting of
the minds, unfortunately,between myself, Tara, and the
builder, but I would like tothink, and this is very naive of
me to think because a scorpionis still a scorpion, I would
like to think that we were atleast able to instill some sort
of knowledge and direction andvision into this builder for
(27:25):
what will ultimately be a very,very difficult listing and sale
process.
There were a lot of things inthis home that did not fit.
The five bedrooms crammed intofour, major problem.
The buyers don't want that.
The level of finish and thestyle, no, they don't want it.
The pool, it took up the entireyard.
(27:48):
The buyers, they're not lookingfor that.
The laser lights show on theceiling, right?
Like, you know, the purplelights.
Okay, I'm just saying, I sell alot of real estate in Verona.
And my clients wouldn't likethis.
And there is a buyer foreverything, don't get me wrong.
But it was amazing to seesystematically as we kind of
went through all of the notes onour list that the builder had a
(28:13):
response for every single oneand the response in every case
was you're wrong because you'rewrong because you're wrong
because.
Now the builder wanted 3.7 andthere was one more thing that's
not on this list that I saidwhen we met which was somebody's
gonna buy your listing.
I said what do you mean?
(28:34):
I said someone's gonna tell youthe price you want to hear and
that is the person that you willlist with.
And he said, well, I'm here.
I'm with you guys.
You know, we want to dobusiness.
I said, look, you got a$3.2million house.
I'll go to my grave telling you,you've got a$3.2 million house
and you want to put it up for3.7.
No, he wanted to put it up for3.8 because he wanted to get
(28:54):
3.7.
But look, I'm going to behonest.
I don't even know that they canget 3.2 because the house has
some serious issues.
But if you find the buyer thatwants the five bedroom, like
somebody that's got four kids,and even though the layout's
kind of screwy, okay, maybe.
But I said, you are going to getsomebody that buys your listing.
It's going to be an out-of-areaagent.
And then as far as the marketinggoes, and we haven't even
(29:17):
touched on that, I can't believewhen agents don't stage the
entire property.
And we said, yes, we're gonnastage it from top to bottom.
They don't do a coming soonsign.
They don't do it properly.
They don't flyer the area.
They're not hosting open houses.
And then the worst thing, theworst thing, the worst thing
that builders do is that theysay that the agent has to be at
every showing.
(29:37):
I shouldn't say the worst thing.
It was one thing that came tome.
Now, if you were going to try ona bathing suit in a store, and
the person that worked theresaid, yep, no problem, let's go,
and got into the change roomwith you, would you feel
comfortable?
It's what I always say in myanalogy of why the listing agent
shouldn't be in the house.
(29:58):
Being there is one thing.
The buyer's not gonna feelcomfortable, they're gonna wanna
leave, they're not gonna wannatalk openly, but they don't want
your sales pitch The buyersdon't wanna go through, and
you've got some salesman there,and you can say that I'm that,
but they don't want for you tobe like, and you know, the
really great thing over here is,because builders think every
single time, my house isdifferent, my house is special,
(30:21):
and I need someone to point outall of the features of it.
Look, maybe, maybe, maybe, partof that is right, but two wrongs
don't make a right in this case,okay?
You don't need a listing agentthere making the buyers feel
uncomfortable.
Statistically, they will spendless time there if the listing
agent is there.
You do not need that personthere talking the entire time
(30:42):
and giving a sales pitch.
It's gross, and that is what inthis area in Verona, in fact,
across the entire city ofToronto, what buyers don't want.
So in the end, this house waslisted for$4 million.
And he even said to us, we'lllist for$3.8 million.
I said, I can't take a listingthat's$600,000 over market
(31:04):
value.
And in my heart, I kind ofthought maybe it was less in a
tough market.
But somebody bought the listing.
And the funny thing is, you talkabout blind bidding.
Buyers don't like blind bidding.
You've listed for$9.99, and Idon't know if it's$1.2,$1.3.
What are the other bids?
In this case,
SPEAKER_00 (31:18):
the seller told us he wanted to list for$3.8.
SPEAKER_01 (31:24):
And somebody bought the listing and listed for$4
million.
They went in and they said,yeah, it's worth$4 million.
On the listing, listing agent tobe present for all showings.
They did not stage a singlesquare inch of the entire house.
No coming soon sign.
Sign went up.
Littered with errors on the MLSlisting.
(31:46):
Littered with errors.
And as far as the write-up goes,you know what buyers don't like?
Dollar signs.
It is so tacky.
You say dollar sign, dollarsign, dollar sign, luxury,
dollar sign, dollar sign, homefrom builder, dollar sign,
dollar sign, dollar sign, spenton upgrades.
It's so tacky.
(32:08):
Buyers hate it.
And that's what happened.
That is what happened.
We did what we could to explainto the builder how to not sell
and think like a builder.
But a scorpion is a scorpion.
Every single time.
Now, if any of that soundeduncouth, insincere, rude,
(32:30):
undermining, condescending, itdoesn't make it not true.
And there are builders thatdon't sell like that, but most
of them do, especially in FairVerona where we live.
It's a fun name.
Romeo and Juliet.
Everyone read it in grade 10.
But in Fair Verona where welive, you see it time and time
again.
Eight out of 10 builder housesare of a design that the local
(32:52):
people don't really want, 10 outof 10 of them are priced 20%
above fair market value, justegregious prices.
They're all listed three, four,five, six, seven, eight, nine,
10 times.
Many of them go up and down inprice.
When you're listed at 3.6 for a3.1 house and then you drop to
2.99 with an offer date, what doyou think is gonna happen?
(33:13):
Buyers hate that.
And another thing I don't thinkI wrote in this is that buyers
don't wanna buy a house that'sbeen listed eight times.
you're shooting yourself in thefoot, especially in Fair Verona.
Because people are gonna askthem at the jamboree or the
local club or tennis orwhatever, I'm playing up the
snob factor, oh, where do youlive?
Oh, we bought it, you know, suchand such.
(33:35):
Oh, that house was for sale fora while.
People don't wanna be thatperson.
And tell me it's a snob factor.
Again, I think I've said thatabout 35 times.
It must be quite repetitive atthis point.
But I've got to drive the pointhome.
It doesn't matter if it's a snobfactor.
It doesn't make it untrue.
The builders don't see that.
The more times you're listed,the longer you're on the market.
(33:57):
I'm not telling you I'm the guythat's going to give your house
away.
I'm listing it as low aspossible.
I am telling you that when youdo it like that, you're losing
interest.
The buyers don't like it.
So all told...
This house was listed threemonths ago.
And it is still on the marketfor$4 million.
It's been up for three months.
(34:17):
We're now getting into thesummer.
In this area, everyone'sleaving.
This house is not going to selluntil next year.
It'll be reduced multiple times.
They have not staged it.
I cannot believe they have notstaged it.
You got a$4 million house.
Well, I think it's a$3 millionhouse.
It's going to cost you$10,000 tostage that whole house.
And maybe with the luxurystager, it's$20,000.
But why wouldn't you spend thatmoney?
(34:37):
No open houses.
It says by appointment only.
You're not doing any openhouses.
Okay, I don't see why not.
No real marketing in the area.
Listing agent be present for allshowings.
And like 50 freakin' dollarsigns in the MLS write up.
So that is it folks.
I welcome your feedback.
Drop me a comment in the YouTubesection.
If you see what I see out therewith builder homes, tell me what
(35:00):
I've missed, or if it's at allpossible, tell me where I'm
wrong on this.
Thank you so much for watching.
As always on YouTube, as I said,drop me a comment.
Feel free to like, comment, orsubscribe wherever you get your
podcasts, if it's Apple Music orSpotify.
And we'll see you here next timeon The Last Honest Realtor.
Every new builder home that comes to the market in
the city of Toronto is massivelyoverpriced every single time.
Hello, everybody, and welcomeback to the Last Honest Realty
Podcast.
I'm your host, David Fleming.
Now, we have seen this before.
The house is torn down.
A new one's built in this place.
It's a mansion.
(00:20):
It's beautiful.
It's sparkling.
The dumpster's been removed.
The fence has been taken down.
They've sodded the front lawn.
We hope, although that's one ofthe things builders don't do
properly, which is in my listand we'll come back to.
And the property is listed forsale on MLS.
The price?
Is that a typo?
No, it's not?
Seriously?
Why is that?
(00:40):
Why is every single builder homebrought out on the market at a
price that makes absolutely nosense and then subsequently
terminated and relisted andrelisted and changed the agent
and changed the price andchanged the listing strategy
every single time.
That is what we're gonna talkabout today in what I think will
be a very fun post.
It's gonna be full of anecdotesand stories.
(01:01):
My colleague Tara and I recentlyhad an experience with a
builder, kinda was the impetusfor this today.
Walked the builder through everysingle thing that other builders
do wrong And well, you're gonnafind out what we did in the end.
But first, a story.
First, a childhood story, afable, if you will, an anecdote,
an analogy, the frog and thescorpion.
(01:22):
If you haven't heard the oneabout the frog and the scorpion,
well, I don't know, you hadcrappy parents, although mine
never told me about that.
So yeah, I'm gonna talk to mymom about it.
The frog and the scorpion, itgoes like this.
Very simply, a scorpion wants tocross the pond.
The scorpion says to a frog, canI please climb on your back?
Will you carry me across?
And the frog says, you're ascorpion.
(01:43):
You're gonna sting me.
Scorpion says, I'm not gonnasting you because if we're
halfway across and I sting you,we're both gonna die.
Now with that kind of logic, thefrog says, yeah, he's absolutely
right.
That would make no sense forhim.
So the scorpion gets on thefrog's back and they start
floating on a lily pad orwhatever it is across.
About halfway through, thescorpion stings the frog.
(02:08):
And the frog says, I don'tunderstand.
You said you wouldn't do this,and not only that, I am going to
die, and you're gonna drown withme.
And what does the scorpion say?
I'm sorry, I'm a scorpion.
Let that sink in for a moment.
And if you're telling this toyour eight-year-old child,
they're probably gonna be upset.
(02:28):
The point to this story, or thisfable, is very simple.
A scorpion's a scorpion, and inthat case, the scorpion just
said, I'm a scorpion, and Isting, that's what I do, even if
it's to my own detriment.
Do you see where I'm going withthis, folks?
Builders in the city of Torontoroutinely make the same mistakes
over and over and over.
And I'm not talking about condobuilders.
(02:48):
We're talking about infillhomes.
So somebody buys a bungalow on a40 by 130 foot lot in North
Toronto and they tear it downand they build a beautiful new
home.
But what we see from there onout is the same every single
time.
They overprice it.
They list it seven times.
They have three different agentsand it takes them a year to
(03:09):
sell.
But it's not just the pricing.
It is everything else that goesinto so many of these builder
homes.
And that's what I want to talkabout today.
So I'll tell you this.
Tara and I got a phone call froma builder, and we're going to
call the area of the city ofToronto Verona.
It's a Romeo and Julietreference.
(03:33):
So in Fair Verona, where welive, it's...
Well, upper middle class, let'ssay.
It's a very close-knitcommunity, and yes, there are
developers in the area.
Now, a typical developer in thisarea is building a beautiful red
brick home that fits in with allthe others in the area, and I
feel like that's what the buyersreally want.
(03:53):
But the builders, theout-of-area builders, they come
in and they ply their trade timeand time again.
They build the stucco homes,they build the sleek glass
monsters, they build the thingsthe local residents really don't
want now that's the first pointthat i will make but we were
called in to look at one ofthese houses and we decided
nothing to lose here let's puttogether a presentation and in
(04:15):
that presentation we will gothrough the following what
buyers think about most builderhomes in fair verona where we
live and then what agents thinkwe will lay it all out and we
will use examples and in the endwe will say mr builder would you
like to list and sell thisproperty the way that we think
it should be.
Let me walk you through this.
(04:36):
The first point that we made toMr.
Builder, while looking at whatbuyers think of these builder
homes, buyers think, and we didresearch for this, this is what
we had asked a bunch of peoplein Verona, buyers say, builder
homes are always price high andwill come down in price.
Therefore, there's no rush tosee the property.
A house comes out for$4 millionand the neighbors are aghast.
(04:57):
The buyers in the area look atit And they see, has it been
listed before?
No, it's a brand new build.
It's owned by a numbered corp.
They don't come see it.
Why?
Because they know it's not goingto sell and they know it's going
to be reduced.
This is across the board whatevery single buyer in this area
we call Verona believes.
(05:17):
And we received this commentmultiple times.
Now, the second thing the peoplein Verona said, is that most of
the folks representing the housedon't understand them and their
needs.
Now, if that sounds snobby, it'sbecause it is.
But if this community is veryinsulated, and one of the points
that we had made was that thebuilders don't hire an agent
(05:38):
from Verona.
They hire their outside agent,their 905-er, if you will.
Now, that...
Could save them some money,sure.
If that agent's doing it on thecheap, that agent might be
somebody they've worked withbefore.
But there's something to be saidfor the brand value.
And I'm losing some of you herein the YouTube comments who are
gonna say I don't care.
The brand value of the agent andthe brokerage.
SPEAKER_00 (05:58):
Yeah,
SPEAKER_01 (05:58):
it's a real thing in Verona.
You can call it snobby, butthat's fine.
You don't think the guy sellingthe Mercedes or buying it or
manufacturing it is a little bitmore snobby?
than the guy, I don't know,riding the bike.
So the outsiders looking intoFair Verona.
This is how some of the folkssee both the builder and the
agent.
Again, the snob factor.
But what they are saying is thatthey don't really understand us.
(06:21):
Who are we?
What are our values?
What are we like in homes?
Don't just come here, build ahouse that you would build where
you're from, in your area, inother areas you've worked in,
and then tell us why this houseis so great.
Now, money is always spent inthe wrong places.
This is something that a lotthat a lot of buyers had said.
The buyers believe that buildersvalue function over form and
(06:43):
that layout, flow, and usabilityare more important than
finishes.
So I will go off on a tangentvery shortly and give you an
example.
There are two resale homes forsale on the same street.
One of them is absolutelygorgeous and renovated.
The basement is only theoriginal footprint, has not been
excavated, and the main floorhas a bump out, but upstairs
does not.
(07:04):
A house down the block has thefull basement that was excavated
about 20 years ago, and it hasthe full second level, but it's
really tired, has been renovatedsince the year 2000.
Which of those properties do youthink I'm gonna push for?
The second one, you can changethe finishes in a home.
Now, yes, you can excavate abasement, but that smaller house
(07:27):
that's, say, 2,800 square feetand doesn't have the extension,
and thus you lack the function,the flow, and the future for you
to grow into with your family,it might have great finishes.
But the house down the streetthat has all the space you need,
or the best example is a newhome that has 12-foot ceilings
and an older home that has eightfoot, you can never change that.
But sure, the Wolf range isprettier than the Amana one.
(07:49):
The point being here, guys, isthat people in Verona, they
understand the lifestyle and thelife cycle.
They want the flow, they wantthe layout, they want the
functionality, how they livetheir lives.
And that Wolf range, it's prettyand all, but they could go buy
one themselves.
You've used expensive tile, goodfor you.
(08:10):
Hell, you've put tile all overthe walls.
Your moldings are expensive, andon and on and on.
The people in Fair Verona don'tvalue that.
And the last point, and this iskind of funny, is that people in
Verona say that these builderhomes have no warmth and no
character.
They have no story, they have nohistory.
Now you can tell me, okay,you're just romanticizing it,
(08:32):
but there's something to be saidfor a culture and a demographic
that wants brand new, neverlived in, and the other folks
that say, no, I don't like that.
I want the house to have a soul.
Call it cheesy, I can make anargument either way.
Now, what do agents think?
And these are the points.
I interviewed some folks in myoffice.
And these are the points that weput up on the screen for Mr.
(08:53):
Builder and really sort ofhammered away.
Because this isn't my opinion.
This is fact.
And I played it off as one orboth while we were presenting to
Mr.
Builder.
And at the end of the day, thequestion I'll ask you is, did
Mr.
Builder agree?
Now, the first point that Imade, builders don't build for
users within that market.
(09:14):
Now, if you had built 10 housesin...
East York.
And then you decided you weregoing to build in Lawrence Park.
Suffice it to say, you can'tjust pick up your East York home
and move it to Lawrence Park.
If you're a home builder inDurham region and you decide
that you're going to build inthe beach, hey, listen, you've
got a learning curve.
So what we typically see isthat, and take Leaside around
(09:37):
the corner from me right now.
When I got into this business,it was like, all the original
bungalows sitting on prime 30 by120 foot lots, and you saw all
the builders come along, theytear it down, they build a new
one, and that's when we startedgetting the stucco homes instead
of the red brick, and over timethey went back to red brick, and
there's been all kinds ofdifferent folks applying their
trade in that area.
But a lot of those builders, itwas like their first big
(10:01):
project.
Maybe they'd flipped a house ormaybe they'd renovated one, but
to actually tear one down andbuild a new, you see a lot of
builders in Fair Verona doingexactly that.
They're not building for userswithin that market.
And I'll typecast here and tellme there's a snob factor.
Let's say you have somebody thatbuilds in Richmond Hill.
(10:22):
Then they decide they're gonnabuild in the aforementioned
Lawrence Park or in Moore Parkor in Rosedale.
You can't pick up that vibe,that design, that style, and
everything that you know aboutthat demographic and then plop
it down in a new area and expectit to transfer.
Now the next point, and I reallywant to stress this one.
(10:42):
Builders often include featuresthat are valued by other buyers
in other markets, but not inthis market.
I'll give you an example in FairVerona where we live.
The builder put in a basementapartment.
In Fair Verona, Those folksdon't want basement apartments.
(11:04):
Now, there's several reasons,and again, you might say, oh,
it's just a basement apartment,but I'm telling you, this is
what builders do.
The builder comes from an areawhere they say basement
apartments are really importantand they add tremendous value
because you can rent it out andget income to pay your mortgage,
or if you're amulti-generational family,
you've got that downstairs, orwhat?
(11:24):
What else could we use that for?
The point is, in Fair Verona,The buyer wants a basement that
has a rec room, which is for thekid's playroom or the man cave,
woman cave if you think I'mbeing sexist.
They want an extra bedroom formom and dad when they come or
for the teenager.
They want the bathroom.
They want the same layout.
(11:45):
Don't rewrite this.
Don't rock the boat.
Don't reinvent the wheel,whatever analogy it is that I'm
looking for.
And then you go and put abasement apartment in.
Now here's where the snobfactor's gonna come in.
And this is what I told Mr.
Builder.
In Fair Verona, People don'twant basement apartments because
they don't want their neighborsto think that they need the
income.
(12:07):
And that's something that'scoming from a local agent who
works the area and can tell you,yes, this sounds crappy and it's
snobby, but it's true.
Builders don't know this.
And more often than not, theydon't care.
They disagree.
They come from an area wherethey put their basement
apartments in and they saythings like, well, we want to
have the option.
I am telling you, figure outwhat the people in this area
(12:29):
want in Fair Verona.
They want a red brick house.
You built a glass and stuccomonster.
They want a beautiful rec roomin the basement.
They want it carpeted.
And you built this basementapartment with your hardwood
floors that, yeah, people likehardwood.
I get it.
But you're not feeling the vibehere.
People in Fair Verona, they have2.3 children on average.
You know, their kids go toprivate school and, you know,
they're named Todd and Rebecca.
(12:51):
and they want a basement recroom, not a basement apartment.
They also don't want a pool inthe backyard.
I'll tell you what, in FairVerona where we live, the buyer
who wants a pool finds a housethat they want, then they put in
a pool.
A buyer who wants a pool inVerona doesn't target a house
(13:13):
with a pool.
Think about that logic for aminute.
Do you follow?
You want a house with a pool.
You're not looking for houseswith existing pools.
The fact that there's a poolthere makes absolutely no
difference about whether or notyou want that house.
A B minus house on a D minusstreet with a pool, no.
(13:34):
The buyer wants the A house onthe A street that's got a big
tree in the backyard thatthey're gonna accidentally kill
with your basic 14 inch drillbit and rat poison and then
they're gonna reply to the cityto have it cut down because they
don't care and then they'regonna build a pool in the
backyard.
Sorry, I went off the rails withthe analogy, but you get what
I'm saying.
(13:54):
I'm saying that a builder puts apool in because they think it
adds value.
It doesn't.
More to the point, it detractsthe things that people don't
want in this area.
They don't want a basementapartment.
They don't want a pool.
They don't want tile on everysingle wall.
They don't want a laser lightshow in the living room.
You know the ceilings that havethe built-in purple lights?
People don't want that.
(14:15):
You know what else they don'twant?
They don't want one of thosestones on the front lawn that
has the address carved into itin cursive writing.
497 Fake Street.
They don't want that.
They want 497.
They don't even want, and Iactually had a client once that
(14:35):
said no to a house because itwas carved into the awning above
the front of the home.
Now, I wouldn't say it was justthat, but the minute she walked
up, she was like, I don't likethis.
I don't like this style.
Walked into the house and thestyle was not hers.
The point is that was the firstimpression.
Something that small, you haveto know your demographic.
You have to know your market.
(14:56):
And builders continue to dothis.
They take the things thatthey've learned in other areas.
They don't research the area,especially in Fair Verona where
we live.
And they put all kinds offeatures in here that buyers
don't want.
Now, this next point goes partand parcel with what I just
said.
Builders will overvalue items ofless importance and undervalue
items of greater importance.
(15:16):
So what I mean by that is thebuilder will say, I've got a
pool.
It cost them 100,000 to put in.
Congratulations, you've reducedthe value of this home by
200,000.
What are you talking about?
It cost me 100 grand.
No, they don't want a pool.
This is a 30 by 120 foot lot andthe entire backyard is now pool.
There is nothing out here.
(15:36):
If you had a 36 by 130 on adifferent street, I still
wouldn't build the pool becauseyou're gonna catch more flies
with honey, right?
There's more buyers that don'twant a pool.
Why would you put something inthat more than 51% of people
don't want?
And I would honestly estimatethat, I don't know, 80, 90% of
(15:57):
buyers do not want a pool.
I mean, my best friend Jeffbought a place in Mississauga
and it had a pool.
He's like, I'm not a pool guy.
You show up two years later,he's got the floaty, he's got
the noodles, he's testing the pHbalance.
Excuse me if I got thatincorrect.
Now he's Mr.
Pool Guy.
But the point is, if you're abuilder and you put a pool in a
backyard because you think it'sadding value, it doesn't.
(16:18):
And I'll tell you what elsedoesn't add value.
Your Tarion warranty.
The buyer doesn't care becausethe buyer doesn't know.
Now, it's my job as a realestate agent representing the
seller and trying to stress thevalue of that to drive home the
seven-year tariff warranty, butthe buyer does not care.
So the builders will overvaluethings like that.
And they'll talk about thefiberglass insulation, the
(16:41):
acoustic, you know, soundattenuation.
Like, listen, there are a lot ofthings that you've done to this
house that are great, butunfortunately, it may not
translate with the buyer.
And I'll tell you one otherthing.
about this particular house thatwe saw.
The builder jammed five bedroomsinto a footprint that was
(17:01):
perfect for four bedrooms.
The builder said, I have afive-bedroom house.
In Verona, no one really wantsfive bedrooms.
They want four.
They want four and one in thebasement.
And they want those fourbedrooms to have a primary en
suite, and then either onebathroom to service the three
kids' bedrooms, or the one Jackand Jill, and then if you're my
(17:25):
sister growing up, she got herown bathroom.
It's not rocket science.
Don't reinvent the wheel.
Do your research and see whatpeople want in that area.
But no, the builder jams fivebedrooms in and they're frickin'
tiny, and the worst part is themaster bedroom, not supposed to
say master anymore, the primarybedroom has no en suite closet.
(17:45):
It has two double door closetsnext to each other, And we're
talking$4 million.
Who's buying that house inVerona without a walk-in closet?
I'm a typecast.
Does the woman want the housewithout the walk-in closet?
I mean, it could be the man too.
You know, the guy like in RayDonovan, right?
He's got to have the littlecenter console for all of his
(18:06):
different Rolex watches, his tiesquares.
You know, the guy that foldsindividual underwears and puts
them in buckets.
That's what they want.
And the builder crammed fivebedrooms into a four-bedroom
floor plan.
They're overvaluing...
The fact they have fivebedrooms, they're overvaluing
their pool, they're overvaluingtheir Tarion warranty, they're
overvaluing everything in thehouse that they like personally
(18:29):
or that they've done in otherareas.
They're undervaluing things thatthe buyers want.
The buyer wants a walk-incloset.
The buyer wants four bedrooms.
The buyer wants the Wolf range.
The buyer wants what the buyerwants.
Give the buyer what they want.
Now, builders typicallyovervalue the home.
They list high, they reduce overtime.
(18:49):
This was what the buyer feedbackwas.
This is what the agent feedbackwas.
So what Tara and I did in ourpresentation in Fair Verona, we
found three builder homes and weput them up and we named them
listing one, listing two,listing three, listing four, and
so on and so forth.
So you take a house in Verona,it's listed for 3998, sit in the
(19:12):
market for 120 days.
They relist at 3798.
Sits in the market for 120 days.
They terminate the listing withthat agent.
They bring it out with a newone, right?
Fire the coach, not the player.
And now they bring it out at3198 with an offer date.
Well, that doesn't work.
They increase the price to 3798.
It sits for another 90 days, andthey terminate.
They fire that agent.
(19:32):
They hire a new agent.
Bring it out at 3698.
They're on the market for 120days.
They terminate.
Now they bring it out at 2999with an offer date.
It doesn't work.
Do you see where I'm going withthis?
and eventually they sell itafter 16 months for$3.4 million
as the market goes up and down,up and down, up and down.
Now tell me that I'm asalesperson, I don't care what
(19:54):
it sells for, I want it at thelowest possible price, and the
entire argument I'm making todayis simply I want to dump this
property.
No, it's not the point I'mmaking.
The point I'm making is that Iunderstand the economics behind
home building, and there is acost associated with carrying a
property.
Now there's also a risk-rewardbetween pricing at fair market
value and moving it quickly, andmaybe hanging on just a little
(20:15):
bit longer to see if you can geta little bit more.
We're not talking about that.
We're talking about houses thatroutinely are listed for$4
million that are worth$3million.
Three, two, three, four, three,six.
It happens over and over andover.
So when Tara and I had thebuilder from Verona, we showed
these houses and a couple ofthem never sold.
(20:38):
you can't really deny thatthat's how builders price, and I
wouldn't say sell, attempt tosell.
Now, buyers typically, excuseme, builders typically hire
out-of-area agents, and thislowers the value in the eyes of
the buyers.
Now, I'm gonna lose some of youhere, and that's fine.
You got your discount agent, youknow, it's great, or your buddy
(20:58):
that's got a part-time job andsells houses.
In Fair Verona, and I'm notgonna name names, but let's say
that there's broker J.,brokerage B, and brokerage C.
All of them are verytraditional, high-end,
established firms.
And many of them have realtorsthat live in the area.
(21:18):
When you put those signs on thelawn, and you could be watching
this from anywhere in Canada andthe world, and you're like, I
don't agree, I am telling you, Istake my reputation on it, that
those signs, they make thebuyers feel comfortable.
The buyers like what they know.
Right, so let me use where I am,Bosley Real Estate as an
example.
And yes, Bosley is one of thecompanies that routinely works
(21:40):
in Verona.
The Bosley sign goes up, it'sred, it's white, it's got a name
they know, it's got a brand theyknow, it's been around forever.
They sponsor the local what?
Carnival, hand out pies in thepark, cake decorating contests
right in the community, theskate, et cetera, and a couple
of other firms.
Builders always hire, and Ican't name names because I'll
(22:01):
get sued, builders always hireXYZ Real Estate from Markham,
right?
Builder hires the agent from ABCRealty Discount Corp, Fly By
Night, Miracle, Hollywood,whatever they throw words in
there.
ABC Hollywood All-StarBrokerage, right?
With a guy you've never heardof, a gal who's got her face on
(22:24):
the sign.
This is not a face on the signkind of area.
And I'm sorry, guys.
The buyers don't like that.
And if you don't like what I'msaying and it's snobby or it's
egotistical or what have you, itdoesn't make me wrong.
And you can think of analogiesin other industries.
(22:46):
That's just the way that it isin Fair Verona.
Now, builders use very distinct,often ornate finishes that can
clash with prevailing styles,trends, and desires within
specific neighborhoods.
Let's be blunt and say thatdifferent people, ages,
(23:08):
cultures, nationalities,backgrounds, value different
things.
Just as some cultures take theirshoes off before they come in
the house, others find itoffensive to take your shoes off
before you come in the house.
If you're in an area that isdominated by a certain culture
and you're building and notadhering to the desires and
(23:30):
designs aesthetically, Well,they're not gonna like it.
So take Fair Verona whereeverything's dark and it's black
granite and it's gold everywhereand you've got that purple, it's
like Vin Diesel crashed his carinto the living room, right?
People in this area, they wanttraditional crown molding.
They want wainscoting.
(23:51):
They'd like a coffered ceiling.
And you've got the dentalmolding from the 905 and you've
got that purple light goingaround it.
Builders routinely fail toinvestigate the level of finish.
And what's more is you combinethis with things like builders
overvalue items of lessimportance and undervalue items
of greater importance.
They will go to their gravesaying, I brought this tile from
(24:14):
so and so in such and suchplace.
Dude, listen, if you could getyour tile from two blocks away
and it's what the buyers want,you're better off.
So yes, sometimes the buyers aresnobs, as I've mentioned.
They like what they like.
They like local agents and brandvalue and such.
And they might like somethingthat's not as good, right?
I'm not the, you know, I wasgonna say I'm not the handbag
(24:36):
guy, obviously, but like, youknow, the people that want the
Louis Vuitton or even theBirkin, I can't believe I know
what that is.
And then there's other peoplethat are like, no, I'm cool with
like my Michael Kors orwhatever.
Some people like the super fancyand others don't.
But in this analogy, some peopledon't carry a purse at all.
And you've got to look at thatand say, yes, in this area, they
might like nice things.
(24:56):
But you can have a nice...
quartz countertop that's whiteand light versus a much more
expensive, much more rare, darkblack granite counter with gold
speckles that the people in thearea don't want.
Hire a designer.
Build it into the cost.
In fact, hire a local agent,which again, they never do, to
(25:17):
explain to you what thedemographic in this area
desires.
The last point here, builderhouses typically sell via the
second or third agent to listthe home.
We put this in our presentation.
And I said to Mr.
Builder, listen, I mean, we'dlove to work with you and all,
but statistically, we're notselling this house.
(25:40):
And he said, what do you mean?
You know, I believe in you guys.
Let's go, let's work together.
I said, no.
The three properties that weshowed you, the examples of
builders in Fair Verona, listingover and over and over, two of
those had three different agentsthat sold, and then one of them
that hadn't sold Theyterminated, but they had been on
(26:00):
their second agent.
That's very, very common.
So put all this together, andwe're sitting there, and we've
presented this to Mr.
Builder.
And what do you think Mr.
Builder said?
We valued the home at$3.2million.
(26:21):
The builder said that he wantedto list it for 3.7.
Yeah.
That is exactly what weexpected.
And I said, do you remember whenI said the builder houses are
listed over and over and over?
He debated us on the value.
So we then went and we looked atthe comparable sales.
And when I asked somebody arhetorical question, do you see
(26:42):
this house here?
Is this house better than yours?
The answer is yes, because it'son a better street, a block from
the school, It's the style thatpeople want.
It's a bigger lot, and so on andso forth.
And his answer was, no, and I'lltell you why.
And then went on to talk aboutall the features of the house
that the buyers don't want, allthe money they had spent on
things that don't matter, andthen quoting comparable sales
(27:03):
from 2022 at the peak of themarket.
So what ends up happening hereis that there's not a meeting of
the minds, unfortunately,between myself, Tara, and the
builder, but I would like tothink, and this is very naive of
me to think because a scorpionis still a scorpion, I would
like to think that we were atleast able to instill some sort
of knowledge and direction andvision into this builder for
(27:25):
what will ultimately be a very,very difficult listing and sale
process.
There were a lot of things inthis home that did not fit.
The five bedrooms crammed intofour, major problem.
The buyers don't want that.
The level of finish and thestyle, no, they don't want it.
The pool, it took up the entireyard.
(27:48):
The buyers, they're not lookingfor that.
The laser lights show on theceiling, right?
Like, you know, the purplelights.
Okay, I'm just saying, I sell alot of real estate in Verona.
And my clients wouldn't likethis.
And there is a buyer foreverything, don't get me wrong.
But it was amazing to seesystematically as we kind of
went through all of the notes onour list that the builder had a
(28:13):
response for every single oneand the response in every case
was you're wrong because you'rewrong because you're wrong
because.
Now the builder wanted 3.7 andthere was one more thing that's
not on this list that I saidwhen we met which was somebody's
gonna buy your listing.
I said what do you mean?
(28:34):
I said someone's gonna tell youthe price you want to hear and
that is the person that you willlist with.
And he said, well, I'm here.
I'm with you guys.
You know, we want to dobusiness.
I said, look, you got a$3.2million house.
I'll go to my grave telling you,you've got a$3.2 million house
and you want to put it up for3.7.
No, he wanted to put it up for3.8 because he wanted to get
(28:54):
3.7.
But look, I'm going to behonest.
I don't even know that they canget 3.2 because the house has
some serious issues.
But if you find the buyer thatwants the five bedroom, like
somebody that's got four kids,and even though the layout's
kind of screwy, okay, maybe.
But I said, you are going to getsomebody that buys your listing.
It's going to be an out-of-areaagent.
And then as far as the marketinggoes, and we haven't even
(29:17):
touched on that, I can't believewhen agents don't stage the
entire property.
And we said, yes, we're gonnastage it from top to bottom.
They don't do a coming soonsign.
They don't do it properly.
They don't flyer the area.
They're not hosting open houses.
And then the worst thing, theworst thing, the worst thing
that builders do is that theysay that the agent has to be at
every showing.
(29:37):
I shouldn't say the worst thing.
It was one thing that came tome.
Now, if you were going to try ona bathing suit in a store, and
the person that worked theresaid, yep, no problem, let's go,
and got into the change roomwith you, would you feel
comfortable?
It's what I always say in myanalogy of why the listing agent
shouldn't be in the house.
(29:58):
Being there is one thing.
The buyer's not gonna feelcomfortable, they're gonna wanna
leave, they're not gonna wannatalk openly, but they don't want
your sales pitch The buyersdon't wanna go through, and
you've got some salesman there,and you can say that I'm that,
but they don't want for you tobe like, and you know, the
really great thing over here is,because builders think every
single time, my house isdifferent, my house is special,
(30:21):
and I need someone to point outall of the features of it.
Look, maybe, maybe, maybe, partof that is right, but two wrongs
don't make a right in this case,okay?
You don't need a listing agentthere making the buyers feel
uncomfortable.
Statistically, they will spendless time there if the listing
agent is there.
You do not need that personthere talking the entire time
(30:42):
and giving a sales pitch.
It's gross, and that is what inthis area in Verona, in fact,
across the entire city ofToronto, what buyers don't want.
So in the end, this house waslisted for$4 million.
And he even said to us, we'lllist for$3.8 million.
I said, I can't take a listingthat's$600,000 over market
(31:04):
value.
And in my heart, I kind ofthought maybe it was less in a
tough market.
But somebody bought the listing.
And the funny thing is, you talkabout blind bidding.
Buyers don't like blind bidding.
You've listed for$9.99, and Idon't know if it's$1.2,$1.3.
What are the other bids?
In this case,
SPEAKER_00 (31:18):
the seller told us he wanted to list for$3.8.
SPEAKER_01 (31:24):
And somebody bought the listing and listed for$4
million.
They went in and they said,yeah, it's worth$4 million.
On the listing, listing agent tobe present for all showings.
They did not stage a singlesquare inch of the entire house.
No coming soon sign.
Sign went up.
Littered with errors on the MLSlisting.
(31:46):
Littered with errors.
And as far as the write-up goes,you know what buyers don't like?
Dollar signs.
It is so tacky.
You say dollar sign, dollarsign, dollar sign, luxury,
dollar sign, dollar sign, homefrom builder, dollar sign,
dollar sign, dollar sign, spenton upgrades.
It's so tacky.
(32:08):
Buyers hate it.
And that's what happened.
That is what happened.
We did what we could to explainto the builder how to not sell
and think like a builder.
But a scorpion is a scorpion.
Every single time.
Now, if any of that soundeduncouth, insincere, rude,
(32:30):
undermining, condescending, itdoesn't make it not true.
And there are builders thatdon't sell like that, but most
of them do, especially in FairVerona where we live.
It's a fun name.
Romeo and Juliet.
Everyone read it in grade 10.
But in Fair Verona where welive, you see it time and time
again.
Eight out of 10 builder housesare of a design that the local
(32:52):
people don't really want, 10 outof 10 of them are priced 20%
above fair market value, justegregious prices.
They're all listed three, four,five, six, seven, eight, nine,
10 times.
Many of them go up and down inprice.
When you're listed at 3.6 for a3.1 house and then you drop to
2.99 with an offer date, what doyou think is gonna happen?
(33:13):
Buyers hate that.
And another thing I don't thinkI wrote in this is that buyers
don't wanna buy a house that'sbeen listed eight times.
you're shooting yourself in thefoot, especially in Fair Verona.
Because people are gonna askthem at the jamboree or the
local club or tennis orwhatever, I'm playing up the
snob factor, oh, where do youlive?
Oh, we bought it, you know, suchand such.
(33:35):
Oh, that house was for sale fora while.
People don't wanna be thatperson.
And tell me it's a snob factor.
Again, I think I've said thatabout 35 times.
It must be quite repetitive atthis point.
But I've got to drive the pointhome.
It doesn't matter if it's a snobfactor.
It doesn't make it untrue.
The builders don't see that.
The more times you're listed,the longer you're on the market.
(33:57):
I'm not telling you I'm the guythat's going to give your house
away.
I'm listing it as low aspossible.
I am telling you that when youdo it like that, you're losing
interest.
The buyers don't like it.
So all told...
This house was listed threemonths ago.
And it is still on the marketfor$4 million.
It's been up for three months.
(34:17):
We're now getting into thesummer.
In this area, everyone'sleaving.
This house is not going to selluntil next year.
It'll be reduced multiple times.
They have not staged it.
I cannot believe they have notstaged it.
You got a$4 million house.
Well, I think it's a$3 millionhouse.
It's going to cost you$10,000 tostage that whole house.
And maybe with the luxurystager, it's$20,000.
But why wouldn't you spend thatmoney?
(34:37):
No open houses.
It says by appointment only.
You're not doing any openhouses.
Okay, I don't see why not.
No real marketing in the area.
Listing agent be present for allshowings.
And like 50 freakin' dollarsigns in the MLS write up.
So that is it folks.
I welcome your feedback.
Drop me a comment in the YouTubesection.
If you see what I see out therewith builder homes, tell me what
(35:00):
I've missed, or if it's at allpossible, tell me where I'm
wrong on this.
Thank you so much for watching.
As always on YouTube, as I said,drop me a comment.
Feel free to like, comment, orsubscribe wherever you get your
podcasts, if it's Apple Music orSpotify.
And we'll see you here next timeon The Last Honest Realtor.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.