February 27, 2024 • 57 mins
Episode 3 returns to the freight world with one of the industry's most productive and entertaining entrepreneurs, Kevin Nolan. From Nolan Transportation Group to OTR Solutions, Kevin's built and sold some of the marquee names in the industries. Speaking of marquee, Kevin's not done yet and is now working on two more startups, Marquee Insurance and GoPayhawk.
Thanks again to your our sponsor, GoPayhawk (https://gopayhawk.com/). Stop overpaying and start thriving with GoPayhawk's payment process solutions. Visit GoPayhawk.com today and use code TLS24 to learn more about receiving a $250 credit on your payment processing solutions.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to episode three of the last sale.
We're moving right along.
This is a good one, kevin,especially because I was in a
conversation with two Kevin's onthis one.
It was me and Kevin squared.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
It was Kevin's all over the place, but the one only
Kevin Nolan.
I joined us for this episodetalking about his career in
sales, freight brokerage andthen factoring and now payments
coming up.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Yeah, exactly.
I immediately thought of thescene from home alone, where the
mom Suddenly realizes that sheleft Kevin at home.
She was Kevin.
You know I was.
That was just playing in mymind over and over during the
whole episode.
But no, it was a greatconversation and it was cool to
hear about selling a companythat has your name attached to
(00:52):
it.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
You know, and Not everybody gets to do that and
that's got to be a weird feelingand I was fun to explore with
Kevin Kevin Nolan that it's yeah, I think you have to be a
hustler to be able to do thatand Kevin Nolan is a hustler and
in his last sell and his answerto that Really brings it home.
I think I really appreciatedthat answer Because we think
(01:16):
about the big.
You know it's gonna be some bigsell, but maybe it's just going
back to the roots and doing onelast fight, and one for the
hell of it.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Yeah, and it kind of gets to.
You know, even for somebody whohas as driven as Kevin and
Money-hungry you might say who'sbuilt a little empire still
wanted to go back to a last salethat Doesn't necessarily have
the most monetary value butmaybe has quite a lot of a
(01:47):
Different type of value.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Yeah, it was a fascinating conversation and
went a lot of differentdirections or a lot of surprises
, but yeah, always, always goodto chat with him and it's, you
know, it's exciting to talkabout his different adventures,
his new ventures, paymentprocessing, and it just so
happens that he is the last salePodcast sponsor number one.
(02:14):
Here we are in episode three.
So payhawk, you know it's, it'sexciting.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
It is exciting as a payment processing system for
for businesses of all sizes, allindustries, but but for a
brokerage as well, right so,being able to to process
payments in a very efficient,cost-effective way.
He's going after that marketand there's a lot of use cases
for Collecting payments from,from your customers.
(02:43):
You know getting it todaybecause, as we discussed and
Kevin pointed out, is that asell is not final Until you
collect the money, and that's atheme that they were talking
about today as well.
So Don't let outdated paymentsystems hold you back.
Go payhawk.
Empowers you to focus on whatyou do best run your business
(03:04):
while they handle the restcollecting that money, making
those sales.
Final visit go payhawkcom today.
Use code TLX 24 to get a freeconsole Consolation plus a $250
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(03:26):
it out, see how they can pay,save you some money and help
streamline your operation.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
So, yeah, happy to have them on board as a sponsor.
Super cool conversation.
I hope you all enjoy it.
Enjoy the conversation and letus know what you like.
Let us know what you didn'tlike.
That might be helpful too, andLook forward to seeing you on
the next episode.
Enjoy.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Yeah, so sales.
Sales for me started probablywhen when I was playing sports
and we had to raise money forthe teams.
So whether it was Eminem boxsales or Program ad sales,
whatever it was, I mean I evenhad a young age said, look, I
want my team or my group orwhatever we're doing to win.
(04:11):
So we would, we would get asmany boxes of Eminem's as we
could.
We would stand on the cornersOn Johnson's Ferry Road, roswell
Road in Atlanta, shake thoseEminem's and people's windows
and we would.
We would come back because thecoaches Look, you know, to their
credit I always say greatcoaches would make great sales
(04:34):
leaders and they would give uswhat they called lawn chairs and
lemonade's at football camp.
So if you sold the most boxes ofEminem's, you got to watch
everybody else run duringmorning, running up Lawn chairs
and drink lemonade if you soldthe most.
So don't think I didn't lovesitting there razzin my
(04:56):
teammates.
Right, we're doing that.
So that's where sales startedfor me.
So I'm excited to talk aboutthe stuff that you guys sent
over and and get into this.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Appreciate coming on the show.
There's a couple questions Ihave for you.
One's your t-shirt, iba dog.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
Yeah, he would die.
Why we need?
We need more of it wheneverybody needs more of it,
especially in the freight gameright now.
But my daughters.
And my wife gave me this for forChristmas.
I, you know, they hear me sayit, they've.
Actually, when we went down toFlorida one time and we were
(05:39):
walking around the docks andeverything else, there was a
boat there that somebody namedit, that which, so you know it's
important.
It stands for earnings beforeinterests, tax depreciation and
amortization.
So businesses, a lot, arevalued on Iba da multiples.
So Iba da or there's an oldschool way I used to say it of
(06:04):
Iba da, those Some of the guys,that girls that know me.
You know they'll be like Kevin,that's a really old school the
way you're saying that.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
So and that goes back to what we were saying right
before I hit record, and that isthe cell is not done Until you
get the money.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Right, right, and that's actually the.
The most important part of thesales process is getting paid
Right and getting paid in amanner that doesn't come across
as Jerky or obnoxious and andthat'll make them want to come
back again.
Right, and I think a lot ofpeople know that during my
non-compete days I worked atWaffle House and and, and the
(06:44):
one thing about Waffle House isthey.
They said get the check outquick.
Right, not only will you turnthe table fast and get somebody
else in that real estate,that'll make money, but nobody
wants to wait around for a checkbecause it's the last thing you
remember.
Right, the last touch point ina sale is usually the payment
Right, and so you want to makesure that payment is is is clean
(07:08):
and is, you know, not offensive, but also like you got to get
paid, sometimes in a collectionstandpoint, and then you got to
be firm.
So, yeah, it's a balance thethe sale is not done until
you're paid, that's for sure,paid in full.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Yeah, I'm going, kevin, I know most of our
audience, or soon to haveaudience, will know you, but
there may be people who don'tknow you, so just quick
introduction about who you are,what you've done, just a
reflittle intro for the audience.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
Yeah, so I'm a.
I'm a freight broker at heart,and what that means is we
arrange Transportation.
So we're the middle man orwoman in between a Shipper and a
mode of transportation, whetherthat's a trucker, a sprinter
van, a Drage carrier, an oceancontent, whatever it is.
We're in the middle, right, wearrange it and so that's that's.
(08:05):
I started a business that didthat in 05 called Nolan
transportation group.
In 2018, after growing thatbusiness, I sold majority of
that to Transportation insightand and their private equity
group, griffin out of SanFrancisco.
So I'm on the board of thatcompany, still actively involved
, not in a management role, but,you know, talking to Ken Bayer,
(08:28):
the CEO, talking to the otherboard members, talking to the
sales leaders, helping, you know, push.
But so that was.
That was my first largebusiness that I started and it's
awesome.
It's still growing today andthe leadership there is really
really strong and that businessTop 10 freight broker in the US
out of.
I think there's now 20,000freight brokers in the US.
(08:51):
Another business I started, otrcapital, which is now OTR
solutions.
That is a Solutions company fortruckers.
So truckers have a reallyreally hard time on the road.
We provide financing for them,we provide fuel cards.
We provide a banking Typesolution and clutch cards that
(09:12):
they can use to manage theirfleets, so that's an awesome
business.
I Sold majority of that in 2021To a group out of Boston called
Summit partners.
They're awesome.
They used to own Fleet core,which is another Atlanta based
company, and so they're growingthat like crazy.
I have an insurance business,marquee insurance group, where
(09:34):
we sell insurance to Truckingcompany, so there's a theme here
.
So everything I do, you know,mainly focuses around logistics
and then and then the last onethat we've started most of our
industry is payhawk, go payhawk,and basically that is a digital
payments platform, because somuch of our industry that I've
seen over time is paid in livecheck.
(09:54):
Ach is kind of consideredcutting edge.
There are so many more paymentoptions out there, not only from
traditional credit cards to allkinds of subscription type
payments.
We're getting more into crypto.
There's a lot of differentthings that we're doing over at
payhawk, which is really fun,and then have a family office,
(10:15):
so set from selling thesecompanies and, you know, having
some good, successful outcomes.
I still am an entrepreneur atheart and so with that, I've
started so Creek Capital, wherewe'll invest in Up-and-coming
businesses and help thoseentrepreneurs through the
questions and things that I'vegone through in the past,
whether that in some of themgraduate on and most of them due
(10:35):
to larger Private equitycompanies or are bought by
larger strategic, and so I meanI just have a lot of fun.
And then I've got a family,been married for 23 years, got
three daughters, 22, 17 and 14,love sports, like to fish, which
I think is very, very similarto sales fishing, for sure, but
(10:57):
that's me very similar itreminds me that you know, what
were you doing right now?
Speaker 2 (11:01):
It reminds me of that .
The report that I've been doingis that the reporter, or
someone, asked Willie Nelson onetime is when are you gonna
retire?
It's like, well, all I do isplay music with my friends and
golf, which one do you want meto give up?
Right, right, it's just I meanlook.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
I, I Love it ever since I was young.
I've always loved Beatingnumbers.
You know it's a game, right,and logistics is a never-ending
puzzle.
Every day it changes.
There are so many pieces, it'sfragmenting, or everyone talks
about fragmented industries.
I love to sell into fragmentedindustries, right, where you
(11:41):
know Barrier to entry might notbe that hard to get in, but
hustle, know-how, usingtechnology, you can beat others
like that's what I love, right,and so logistics is that and all
the ancillary products of it,whether it's the finance aspect,
the insurance aspect, thepayments aspect, technology as
(12:01):
well, you know.
So that's that's what I do, andand the main thing that I do
when I help businesses is Ichallenge management To really
push and grow sales, becausewithout a big top line you
cannot have a big bottom linejust does not work and You're
gonna lose your customers oneway or another.
(12:22):
You know.
Hopefully it's not through yourbad service, but it might be
through, you know them, themhaving an acquisition happen, or
you never know.
So you always have to beselling for or it's the best,
it's the best.
Defense is the best is a goodoffense.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
So Sales, sales, sales you know, that's one thing
that we have in common is, youknow, I grew up in Atlanta as
well, played baseball, you know,for most of my life Over at you
go to high school.
I went to Chambley high schooland then we moved to Alpharetta
and I graduated from Milton.
But I played on travel ballteams.
(13:02):
First travel ball team withsome Moore's Mill bombers off of
Moore's Mill Road.
You know where that?
Speaker 3 (13:06):
is.
Yeah and yeah, I play for EastCobb and these cob Astros and
the George Tigers and so I livein East Cobb and so I didn't
play baseball, but I wish I didright.
And so by the time that I wishthat I had played baseball, it
was too late because of thatwhole Atlanta.
The Atlanta baseball scene isawesome, right, and you know.
(13:29):
So I live in East Cobb, so allthose guys and the in the trips
they would have, I mean I'm sureyou have stories and stories of
cards and you know all the, allthe travel baseball you did,
and you know just just thoseguys, the camaraderie they had.
And then even in college, whenI played football in college,
the baseball team was like theirown Fertinity, so to say.
(13:50):
Right, they, the coach wouldn'tlet them join a fraternity, but
they, they were so tight-knit,like when they walked into a
party.
Be like all the baseball teamshere, right, it's just that it's
awesome.
Milton, milton B, walton.
The other night, that's that'sI went to Walton and so Milton
just won the state championshipin football.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Where are you now Are ?
You in Atlanta.
Now I'm in Chattanooga,Tennessee, so I'm alright.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
So you're in Chattanooga, Kevin.
What about you?
Where are you at?
Speaker 2 (14:16):
I'm in Fort Worth.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
All right, nice.
So you're not far, you're justup 75.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Yep, and I remember selling candy bars as a 12 year
old and 13 year old and 14 yearold kid to fund all of these.
You know they would tell usbefore the season started.
All right, here's the travelschedule.
Here's where we're going.
Here's the hotels we're stayingat.
Here's the entry fees, theuniform fees Every you know
we're the coaches were paid, soevery kid was responsible for I
(14:45):
don't know.
It was like 5k a season orsomething.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
And you know, and that's a lot of money.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Here's some candy bars.
Go sell them.
You sell all these candy barsand you got your season paid for
.
So that was you know my parentswould.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
Tell me bucks at a time.
So you sold a lot of candy bars, right?
I mean two bucks per right, Imean the margin on it couldn't
have been more than a buck,right?
So you?
Speaker 1 (15:12):
sold a lot has to be responsible for, like a certain
level of, like diabetes or bloodsugar problems we live in
Atlanta, my best customer ismore responsible than anybody.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
Coca-cola, right Like I'm the biggest drug dealer in
the South, moving that shitaround.
I Love it, I love it.
It's the most beautiful thingin the world my daughter will,
you know, no matter where we are.
And don't get me wrong, pepsi'spretty good too, but but you
know a good, good Coca-Cola inthe South.
Nobody can do better with that.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
So I think, I think.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
I Think you're right, though there's, there's,
there's something to the GirlScout cookies too.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
So with that in mind, segue Two-part question.
First part is where is yourfavorite place to go vacation?
If you got one more vacationleft, where are you going?
Are you going to the beach oryou going to the mountain?
Speaker 3 (16:11):
barbuda, barbuda, it's.
It looks fake.
Right, it's, it's Barbuda.
It's a little island off ofAntigua, I believe I was not
there long but I was.
We stopped by, you know, on aon a little cruise one time
there and it just it looked fake.
They have a little no boo likea pop-up no boo, that's there on
(16:34):
the.
I don't even know if it wasreal, that's, you know, and I
was there.
I remember looking around andsaying life might be a
simulation, but there, like Iwas, just I kind of.
Or or Italy.
I went to Italy this past yearFor the first time ever in the
food, and it just felt likewhere humans were supposed to
live.
So I Would say barbuda or Italy, but you know, I think bar, I
(17:00):
would say Italy.
I would go with Italy again,would probably.
Okay first time a year.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
What's your favorite drink?
Yeah, if you're gonna have onedrink, alcoholic, non-alcoholic,
but just whatever milk.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
Milk, ice-cold, glass of milk, right.
So like my, my partners in OTRsolutions that are out of Boston
, they, we did a board meetingup there and they they made sure
that I had my milk at dinner aswell as at the, at the, at the
Red Sox game.
So they joke with me about Ilove milk man, I love milk and
(17:37):
water.
Those are, those are my dailygo-tos.
I used to crush Miller lightlike nobody's business, but Off
that now.
But yeah, glass of milk.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
So let's say, I want you just to imagine Way off into
the future.
You're done working, work isover, and you're on a beach in
Italy, retired, and you got anice big cold glass of milk in
your hand.
There's there's people walkingthe beach, they got trays full
of milk.
There's table.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
One.
I don't eat trays One ice-cold,one a day.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Do you have the big glass of milk in your hand?
You're thinking back throughyour career.
What's the last sale you evermade?
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Mmm oh.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
I think my last sale like if I could go out, honestly
it'd probably be like a shipperin the Midwest Just call them
up through a manufacturing guideor maybe an association list,
ask them they're tough as laneand book that load, make $200
margin on it and strut out ofthe office.
(18:55):
That would be the way that if Icould end it.
Or a 25 power unit trucker outof Elk Grove Village, illinois,
switching them over from Apex orRTS to OTR, one of those I mean
I don't know, I mean maybeagain a 50 power unit at Markey,
(19:18):
but maybe just the old sweetspot.
Like my first sale ever was asmall shipper out of Charlotte
called Mitchum Potato Chips.
They're not in business anymorebut I helped them move loads to
the Northeast, go into reallybad food warehouses that had to
have appointments and lumpersand everything else, but dang, I
(19:42):
love moving those loads.
So I would say my last sale ifI could make it that right, kind
of like you know, if I got toput on my broker hat one last
day, just like you know, theykind of like signed the one year
contract for people to go inthe hall of fame or whatever.
Just book one load and justwalk out, but I'd make sure I
(20:06):
booked it less than the lastperson who moved that lane.
At least $2 less, right, so Iwould.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
So really just back to basics, back to that feeling
of the beginning, right thebeginning of your career.
There's nothing more pure.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
I mean, look as a freight broker, it's three
dimensional You're buying,you're selling, you're managing,
right.
So it's like a full on deal,right.
Like you get the load and thenyou got to find the equipment in
the truck and then you got toschedule it and then it delivers
.
It's just clean, right, it'sjust done, and you move on Like
a clean bill of lading is aclean sale, right.
(20:46):
You just go on to the next one,right?
Speaker 2 (20:50):
So that would be clean.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
Oh yeah, and look, I still think it's a and we talk
about it all the time.
You know, is cradle to grave orcarrier sales model better.
See, I was at CH Robinson so Isaw, when we bought American
backhaulers, the power of layinga big carrier sales force on
top of a big customer salesorganization, right.
(21:14):
And then you saw that withCoyote and Access kind of
similar.
So we did it a little reversebecause I wanted to buy a
carrier sales organization butlike I would have had to kind of
cut down on organic growth andthat it was a man like M&A
versus Greenfield.
And so we've, we've homegrownit, but I'm not fully convinced.
(21:37):
I mean, we'll, we'll work itright, we'll have a true buy and
sell side.
That'll be really really goodover time.
But you know, two large onescoming together is really
powerful.
And so I saw that at Robinsonand you know have have really
tried to recreate it at NTG andand and then I you know, as I've
transitioned out the managementteam, they're Perry, drew, ken,
(22:01):
those guys have done a greatjob with it and so I think they
covered 99% of them.
Customer sale, cradle to grave,yeah, that's, that's the way I
started the business, and a lotof nights, weekends, uh,
rebookings, everything else.
So when it goes bad, everyonealways says carrier sales adds
another layer.
But when it goes good it's likebeautiful.
(22:23):
So you know it's again.
I think it's a.
It's a, it's a debate that's aninteresting one in the in the
Frey Brokerage game.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
It is.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
It's really I started out cradle grave too.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
That is kind of.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
All I ever did was cradle grave.
So I don't mean no with otherside, even kind of looks like,
but it's, it's a simple cradle.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
I was cradle grave.
I mean, let's just back up tomy days at Robinson.
So I was cradle to grave,started in Columbia, south
Carolina office.
It's where I learned how tosell.
Some young, some some youngleaders in there took me under
their wing and really showed mehow to fight objections, really
showed me how to work on myscript.
I mean I would drive to workworking on it.
You know it was we, would we,we would pound out role playing
(23:10):
all the time.
So I took a lot of that and andbrought it all into NTG.
But when we had access, I mean Ialways equated to the access of
America Coyote thing and I justlistened to Ted talk about this
too.
But when, when, when Americanback haulers came into CH
(23:31):
Robinson, all my loads werecovered like by 830 every day
for the first week and like I asa control person and like to
have control or whatever else,was like who the hell do these
people think they are booking myloads?
And then, like two weeks laterit just clicked like okay, now I
can go sell, now I don't haveto stare at the load board, now
(23:54):
I don't have to worry if thatguy or girl is getting unloaded
Right and then I have to call mycustomer and read book or
everything else.
I go, do what I do best andsell, and so that aspect is
extremely powerful.
So it's interesting, it's aninteresting conversation, but I,
I, I like carrier sales becauseif I'm a carrier salesman or
(24:16):
woman, now I have access to sellcapacity into my company and so
as many truckers as I can get,or as big of a truckers or or I
can get like every time thosemove in my system, I make money
Like that's awesome.
So I don't know, I like it all.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Yeah, that's.
It's almost like you're goingfull circle, right?
Your first sale and the lastsale that we talked about are so
similar and that it's a cradleto grave.
Hey, I'm gonna make this move.
I'm either getting started orI'm headed off to drink my glass
of milk on the beach in Italy.
But let's think about the otherend of that circle what was the
(25:02):
largest sale or the biggestsale that you ever made so far?
Maybe there's more on the radarto come down the road in the
future, but to date, like what'swhat's one of the bigger sales,
and you don't have to tell youdetails or don't want you to,
like cough up any sensitiveinformation, but just want to
hear about what that looked like.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
Yeah, I mean.
So again, I think sales iseverything right.
And so when a bank decides orbelieves that they're going to
give one of my businesses areally large line right, knowing
and worrying about you know, isthe business pretty enough?
Or if I sell a business to aprivate equity group, they look
(25:49):
at it really really hard, youknow, they dissect it, they
dissect me, they dissect all theother management team.
So I would say, probably thesell of NTG, right, like to take
a business and to have thecompanies that wanted to buy it
(26:12):
all trying to buy it, havingwhat I believe is the best
investment banking group andHarris Williams representing it.
Right and selling it.
It's just that to me.
And the transaction being done.
You know it was like a loadright, like we said, hey, we
want to close an X amount ofdays, right, and if you don't
(26:33):
close an X amount of days, youknow, we don't know if it's
going to work out.
And you know, then we had torun around and meet their banks,
right, they were running methrough the town of San
Francisco.
So that, to me, is the mostproud because it's got my name
tied to it.
It started in a 700 square footoffice space.
You know, I had friends, family, people questioning was it the
(26:57):
right decision to go out on myown?
I mean, I had a great, greattrajectory at Robinson, right.
And so to me, when thathappened you know it was on the
Wall Street Journal that waslike my biggest sale ever by far
and it set up my family and itset up my family office and I
(27:18):
was dissected like I've neverbeen dissected.
And you know, then the nexttime it happened, right with OTR
, when I sold that, I wasprepared right, I wasn't fully,
but I don't think anyone's stillfully prepared to sell
something they worked so hard onand put their life into.
But you know, that was that'smy biggest one.
(27:39):
And that one, you know yourbiggest one also comes with a
lot of other.
You know emotions, right, andso that to me was was the best
because it was touch and go attimes, right, you know Paul
Thompson, founder ofTransportation Insight, he had
other brokerages right on hisshortlist, right, and so if we
didn't come across the right way, it wasn't going to be us.
(28:01):
And so my whole management team, gosh, and the men and women
that worked on getting the youknow all the ins and outs.
So that was by far the bestsale you know of business.
And then, when it comes to thebrands you know and the freight
game, my biggest sale, like as ayoung broker, was Enforcer
(28:25):
Products, which was a divisionof ZEP, which was a division of
Acuity Brands.
And so in that situation, likeI got in with the enforcer side,
which then led me into ZEP,which then led me into Acuity,
right, and so it was like this,this whole snowball that made me
(28:45):
learn like, hey, accountpenetration, what you get in the
beginning is only just a littletip of the iceberg, like let's
study that account and see whatelse is there.
So those are, those are the twothat I kind of like you know.
So my first business saleEnforcer Products that was big,
out of Emerson, georgia.
I remember pulling up to the, tothe, to the docks, and there
(29:08):
was like 80 doors or whatever itwas, and then they were adding
on more.
They had a rail spur, like youknow.
They had containers and allthis and I found them through a
manufacturing guide.
Literally they told phone bookmanufacturing guides that they
had, and I still order them.
Sometimes you can find themonline 2005 edition, 2007, 2018.
(29:30):
And so that was just out of astraight call.
Called Neil Terralo was theshipping manager there.
I went and saw him face to face.
It was awesome.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
So those both of those are starting small.
Right, you're starting in a 700square foot office striking out
on your own, or then, also withEnforcer, you're starting with
a relatively small accountthat's leading into something,
something big.
Did you have those big targetswhen you first started, when you
first opened up that thatoffice where you think, and I'm
(30:03):
going to get to X and then I'mgoing to sell, and the same
thing with Enforcer, whereyou're like I'm going to start
here and then I'm going to endin this future state where I'm
going to have the parent of theparent's brand and have this big
account Now or like.
What was that?
What was that journey like,getting from from small to big
in terms of your vision?
(30:24):
At what point did you see afinish line and say, oh, I know
where we're going now?
Speaker 3 (30:31):
You know probably Well on NTG, I started it with
the mindset in the mantra topfive freight broker.
It meant a lot different in2005 than it means now.
Right, I think I got a lot thatthe, you know, when I left, ti
and NTG together is now biggerthan Robinson when I left.
I think it might be double, Idon't know exactly, but when I
(30:55):
left Robinson it was like threebillion in revenue and there was
not anyone else near a billion.
Right Now there's 18, I think,or so, that are over it.
So the game has changed a lot.
But to answer your question,even on the Enforcer aspect, I
just like to get in there, right, and once I get in there, or
once I'm at something, I'm goingto play as hard as I can.
(31:17):
I'm going to look at all theangles and I'm going to try to
figure it out and really kind ofjust be in there and be there.
Now I got to get there, I gotto get in it Right, like that's
the.
You know I had a coach oncethat said hey, nolan, once
you're here, nobody plays harder, but getting you here is a
little tough, right.
So once I, once I landsomething or once I'm in it like
(31:38):
okay, I like it, there's,there's not going to be much.
You know that I'm not going tofigure out and know everything
on it.
Like I'm the kind of guy thatwhen I watch a movie, like the
actor or the actress, if I likethem, I'm going to know
everything else.
They've been in by like 15minutes into the movie.
So I just, you know, I like tokind of piece the puzzles
(31:59):
together and look, and then ifthere's always somebody you know
, like on the acuity thing,which acuity had a ton more
other brands that we ended uplanding, but sometimes like
that's the push off, that's theobjection, like there's a big
brother that won't let me signyou up, or hey, you're not
(32:19):
approved by so and so and we'reowned by so and so, okay, well,
I'm going to go try to getapproved by them, and then and
then and then, if they like meor like my business or like my
prices, I'm going to win moreout of it.
So sometimes it was just anobjection that I had to fight
through specifically on thataccount for sure.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
I have a question for you, back to the cell of NTG,
because it's something I'vealways wondered.
So it's just a curiosity on mypart.
What's the one set deal closesand that the funds are dispersed
, does it just go into one bankaccount?
Speaker 3 (32:53):
for you, right?
What do you mean?
What do you mean by that?
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Like the the, so it's acquired.
Speaker 3 (32:59):
My money or like your money.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
Yeah, so you're share of the equity right.
Does it just hit one bankaccount?
Speaker 3 (33:08):
Well, it goes to a lawyer's bank account, right?
So it goes to a lawyer's bankaccount, and then that lawyer
then sends it to your one bankaccount, right?
And then you've got to disperseit from there or figure out
where to put it and whatnot.
But yeah it was exciting.
I mean, on the NTG side I thinkwe had like 244 people get paid
(33:28):
Right.
So it was sweet, right and andand you know everybody,
everybody helped build that andit still is, and then they'll,
you know, then they were all.
We all rolled too Right.
So it was like, hey, we want tobe in this logistics asset that
we feel like is the best still,and then we want to combine it
(33:50):
with another business that wethink is really really good, if
not the best managed transbusiness, which has a sticky,
steady income versus a brokeragewhich is up and down, and so
it's been a really really goodmarriage because of that.
And so we all rolled Right andso we're all still shareholders
in the in the business.
So, like our portion of equity,that was cash we got, and then
(34:12):
our portion was not rolled intothe, to the, to the mothership,
so to say, and Paul's bought ineight companies in that group.
So it's highly diversifiedlogistics stuff.
We're in parcel LTL, managedtrans, freight, payment and
audit.
You know a lot of differentstuff.
So it's pretty sweet.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Cool.
So let's go back to the firstday's or maybe not even the
freight workers, but the, theOTR days kind of what are some
you know a stressful sell andthat can roll into the stressful
sell, into a slump Right.
And stressful slumps you've hadalong the way, where you get up
(34:56):
and you kind of, you know,question your confidence and be
able to sell, or be able to sell, or be able to get out of a
situation with, with sales.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
So OTR, otr.
Like you, you can oversell infactoring, right.
Like you can outsell your cash,which is a problem, right.
And so I never want to turnsales off, because once you turn
sales off it is very hard toreawaken a sales organization
(35:27):
that gets away from.
You know the activities thatthat, that that makes sales
happen.
But if you don't have enoughcapital you can't sell, right.
So you know, every time we addedlike a new 10 or 15 power unit
truck in company, we had to makesure we had enough capital to
(35:48):
support it.
So several times, like we wouldbe raising we don't have this
issue anymore at all.
But in the beginning, right likeyou have to raise cash to give
out, to give to truckers, to buyreceivables, to work on it, and
so we would run around town andmeet with people and raise
(36:11):
money.
And so when we did that, likethat was a sell, like that was a
, that was a sit down, like I'masking you for money, like I'm
asking you for $150,000 to putinto our business and you know
you're going to get everyquarter in return, and they
(36:32):
would be like, why don't you putit in?
I'd be like I've already put itin.
Look, this is how much I've putin Everything else.
So we had 44 individualinvestors and OTR at one time
with anywhere from $50,000 allthe way up to $4 million, and so
when we did the transactionwith Summit, like it kind of
cleared the majority of that outand had them as a large one.
(36:54):
But I would have my best salesguy, chris Ebel, who I think
some of you guys have met atsome of the conferences or
whatever else.
He'd come running in and be likewe just signed up a 30 power
unit guy and Fritz would be like, oh my gosh, we got to go get
600 grand tomorrow, kev.
And so having this large bankfacility now has changed that.
(37:15):
But Fritz and I would eat atthe same place twice, asking
rich families in Atlanta like,hey, we need some money or
whatever else.
And we would tell the waiterlike hey, please don't say you
just served us 15 minutes ago.
And we would be asking the same, we'd have the same
presentation.
But it'd be like hey, and mostfamilies loved it.
(37:37):
Right, because we gave them agreat sense of return.
They cheered for a companybased in Atlanta, right, and
there's a lot of the reason whywe are who we are today.
But that is a stressful sale.
Asking people for money to putinto your business is the
ultimate sale.
(37:58):
Like, because they have tobelieve full.
And this is like when thebirdie made off, stuff was going
on.
You know American read showscoming out.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
Right.
Speaker 3 (38:10):
And I'm not listen, I'm not a quiet human right, and
so I'm living big.
They're worried.
Am I, you know, gonna put itall in clubs or gamble it away?
I mean, it was, it was, it wasa lot, it was a lot.
But Fritz, having so, like inthose stressful sales situations
, having steadiness around you,is super important.
(38:33):
So if there's anything out ofthis podcast that people get, if
you're like an up and downvolatile person like I can be,
having steady, strong supportaround you is the most important
thing and like I've always hadthat.
So in those emotional sales orin those volatile sales, like I
got a crew around me that'sgonna calm me down, a but B,
(38:56):
like everyone's gonna look athim and like it's not just me,
right, so that's.
I don't know if that answersyour question.
I know that's not a traditionaltype sale but to me, to me,
asking for money is, is is partof the sales aspect.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
For sure, it definitely is.
Speaker 3 (39:14):
I'm glad we'll do that in New York, right Cause
I'd see these people now atweddings or whatever else.
I'd talk to them and be like,hey.
They'd be like, okay, that'sfine, how's OTR doing?
And I'd be like, hey, nope,how's OTR doing?
And then I, you know, but Ilove talking about business too.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
So that's great.
So is there a sale and this isa sensitive question Is there a
sale where you might've made amistake or something went
sideways and you feltembarrassed or guilty or bad?
Speaker 3 (39:46):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean there's a lot of that.
I mean being emotional.
And you know, conagra.
I mean we don't work withconagra at NTG anymore because I
went up there it was probably2017.
The spot market had just beenhot.
I mean, let's not kid ourselves, a lot of conagra staff is old
(40:08):
CH Robinson.
There's a lot of them that wasin that meeting with me.
You know thought that I tookadvantage of them in the spot
market and I didn't, and I lostit.
I lied, we walked out of thatplace.
We don't work with them anymore.
I can promise you that.
You know, and I should havetaken my medicine right.
And they don't know, they haveno idea.
There was no transparency on,you know, on this Friday load
(40:32):
but, by the way, that somebodyelse had given back to you that
I decided to help you pick upand I could have used those
trucks for everybody.
This is what I said, which Ishouldn't have said, but you
know that situation there was acustomer in the room and it
wasn't me, right, and so I lostour biggest account, you know.
And my salesman, you know WillStrickland, who's still with me
(40:53):
to this day, like you knowHarold Barron, who's my partner
at NTG.
He was in the room like Ididn't handle myself.
Well, you know, I waschallenged and there's a lot of
times I act like that, where,like if I feel fear, if I fear
like somebody doesn't like me,like I kind of coil and snap and
that was a bad one.
I mean that was a bad one.
And those men and women thatwere at Robinson with me that
(41:16):
worked really hard and run adamn good ship up there, they
didn't need to hear that crapthat day.
But I, you know I was, I showedmy butt a little bit there for
sure.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
And what was big takeaway about how not to get
yourself in that position again?
Speaker 3 (41:36):
I mean I don't know.
I mean there was there's somepast there, right, like I was at
Robinson and now I'm, you knowI have this big broker or
whatever else.
So I don't know, I mean I don'tknow, I don't know how I was
young, I mean I was, I was, Iwas a lot younger than I am now
and you know I would say thatthat I should have just sat
(42:00):
there.
You know, I talk too muchsometimes, like everybody knows
that about me, and in thatsituation I probably should have
just sat there and let Willtalk and let Harold talk.
But I don't know, I just feltlike, like I needed to defend
our position, that we were notmaking money and we were getting
those last minute loads becauseyour original providers were
not there for you, right, and weworked night and weekends and
(42:24):
all this to cover your freightand and and.
So you know, that's just thedifference between you know,
there's been a, there's been aand it's awesome.
Now, Thank the Lord, we haveall these men and women who came
over from Coyote and UPS andEcho and other places Now that
we've got this cross pollinationand TI and NTG, but like that's
(42:47):
been a hard thing for for forme being a what I believe one of
the best spot brokers to everplay in the game.
To then go play in the contractgame right and at LTL.
Like I didn't understand youhad to kiss the ring of the
carriers right, like you'rebecoming a liquor distributor.
(43:07):
You're getting the right tosell.
That's why I think carriersales was talking about earlier.
But that was hard for me aswell was when we were running
around trying to get directrates, becoming an LTL broker,
of the difference between howyou interact with a truckload
carrier and an LTL carrier.
So I didn't handle some ofthose conversations great in the
(43:29):
beginning either, but we'vewe've come around and learned
how to handle that a littlebetter.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
Yeah, it sounds if I'm hearing you there, it's.
The takeaway might have beenyou know the soft skills of
listening, even when you knowyou're in the right or you have
a good position, and justlearning how to better navigate
some of those sensitivities, soso valuable as you progress in
sales.
I feel like, and having livedthose types of things, I can
(43:56):
only imagine what you would dodifferently.
Or you know the success thatyou're able to have after the
fact because of those scenarios.
Speaker 3 (44:06):
Oh, I've learned from it.
For sure, I've learned from it.
Speaker 1 (44:10):
So, like on the flip side, what's the funniest sale
you've ever part of?
What was?
What was the sale?
How long?
Take all the death.
Crack it down.
There's a ton.
Speaker 3 (44:20):
Oh, there's a ton, there's so many, but the best
has got to be AJC Internationalin Atlanta.
So they are a like a chickenimporter right, like frozen
chicken center seconds, and theybuy and sell meats and they do
all this.
They've got a logistics branchdown but we used to move a ton
(44:43):
of freight for them,refrigerated stuff, down around
the borders, in and out of theports and they were doing this
health week and somehow some waywe call wind of it.
And me and Chris Evel and KyleRichards I dressed up as Richard
Simmons, kyle dressed up asGene Vonda and Evel like was
(45:05):
like my sidekick, and we went inand we did a full workout in
like Lea Tards and everything,and that was good.
And then Santa Claus I dressedup as Santa Claus.
Everyone in the Southeast youknow that was my customer from
05 to 13 probably had me stop byas a Santa Claus, deliver a
cookie, cake or.
(45:26):
But that dressing up as RichardSimmons probably my funniest by
far.
I still have the costume.
It's called the Simmons.
I mean it's fun, big win.
Speaker 1 (45:43):
I'm trying to picture this, Kevin, and it's an
interesting oh we ran in.
Speaker 3 (45:48):
I mean, look, we ran in.
I mean we ran into their office.
We were in and out of there inlike 20 minutes but we had the
whole place like up five, six,seven, eight, I mean it was just
.
I mean, we were, you know, wehad them doing all the moves,
stretching everything.
We had a big boom box we wereplaying.
Then we ran out of there, didyou?
Speaker 1 (46:07):
get more of a face.
Was it successful?
Did you get some sales out ofthat?
Speaker 3 (46:12):
Oh yeah, there was and that's the other thing right
Like when you go in, when yougo and do a face to face, you
get to meet everybody else inthe office, and some of those
men and women might be findingtrucks or need your service as
well.
So, yeah, we got a ton morepeople.
I remember that.
And then our intro emails orfollow-up calls were so easy.
(46:34):
It was like hey, this isRichard Simmons or hey, this is
Jay Fonda.
Speaker 2 (46:44):
Okay, let's go to this because I know about the
Air Force One story.
I think we swapped pictures ofour Air Force Ones.
What's the most money you gaveaway?
Or, all right, maybe not gaveaway, but what's the highest
dollar value of a salespromotion you did within your
company?
Probably the cruises.
Speaker 3 (47:06):
Maybe what was the best one.
I mean one like do you mean,well, we've done a Corvette that
we've given away to whoever youknow, booked the most
truckloads.
We've done cruises, for sure,where we've brought 150 people
and they're significant, otherspouse or date.
We've done cash giveaways, butI'd say probably, you know, it's
(47:34):
usually like around 80 to 100grand is the most that I'll do,
like what I call like a throwcash on the fire to kind of
light ignition and re-energizethat sales energy right, and so
I mean probably a hundred, 100at once.
Speaker 2 (47:56):
And it works right.
I don't think it works, or youwouldn't do it.
Speaker 3 (48:01):
No, it works for sure , but it's like a drug, right,
you can't do it all the time,right?
Or, like you know, it also likecreates.
You know it's good, it's good,it's something to kind of
sprinkle in, but it can't beyour whole MO, right, your
culture has to be good, yourproduct has to be good, your
services have to be good.
(48:21):
It can't be all about, you know, just getting the sales team to
stand up and work for, you know, quick cash or quick dollars,
you know, sometimes it also, youknow, again, I know what I'm
doing when I do it.
But sometimes I know that, likethe accounts that you get fast,
like that they're going toleave fast too, right?
So a lot of times, some ofthose sales quota busters type
(48:45):
things or whatever else, you adda lot of accounts.
They might not be extremelylong-term sticky value, but
they're sure as hell fun, like Imean, like we.
You know we do dollar, dollarlottoes in our business on
Fridays where you, you know,write the name on the dollars
and people drawing out and theyget the whole thing and you dump
cash on them.
Those days can be seven, eightgrand people are walking out
(49:06):
with, and I'll always juicethose pots on Fridays.
So you know, we love, love,love sales contests, like I
think, I think there's there's alot to them, you know.
But like you know, for MIG, inJanuary this month, doing
whoever does the mostface-to-face visits, the four
(49:27):
men or women that do the mostface-to-face visits will come to
Florida, hang out with me.
Fish will play golf, will do agood dinner and will review
their pipeline and everythingelse Like that one is going to
cost me maybe total, withflights, hotel rooms or whatever
else, 12 grand-ish.
But those four people that Ispend that time with, like it'll
(49:49):
be, it will be like we'll gel.
I'll help them close someaccounts, you know, I'll, you
know.
So that that is, that is that'sinvaluable to me.
Speaker 1 (50:00):
Yeah, I hear what you're saying.
I always think about like thosecontests as being, like you
know, lighter fluid.
Lighter fluid is great forgetting your coals going, but
you don't want to cook yoursteak on lighter fluid alone.
It's going to taste a littlefunny.
Speaker 3 (50:15):
So you got to have this, absolutely absolutely
absolutely.
Speaker 2 (50:22):
It really is Well, what's your most memorable self?
Kind of kind of the, the, theroller coaster.
I don't know if we've askedthis.
I will tell you this and I youknow my first conversation with
you was one of my most memorableconversations because I was in
a wasp of a home.
I was trying to run carrierless and I got this bright idea
of writing a handwritten note toeveryone in the top 100, the
(50:45):
CEOs right, and one personcalled me back and it was you.
I didn't make a sale that day,but it was a great conversation
I learned a lot.
Speaker 3 (50:54):
Yeah, absolutely.
Look, I, I, you know my mostmemorable favorite I, you know
we just got the big award fromCoca-Cola.
I know I brought them upearlier, but you know we're
we're moving more afraid withthem than we ever had.
And it's funny when, when themen and women go visit Coca-Cola
(51:17):
at their headquarters now, likemy picture, comes up, anything
with NTG, it's like hey, and Ithink it's like get this guy
away from the door, or like hey,he's coming, or you know, tell
him we don't have any freight.
So you know, having DrinkingCoca-Cola my whole life, I mean,
I, I think a lot of my success.
(51:39):
I ran on Diet Coke for years.
Um, I just, we were told no,for so long.
I mean I still have clients andcustomers.
That that I call them clientsand customers are not yet, but
they're, they're going to be,that that I haven't closed yet,
but that one, and winning thataccount and winning the amount
of volume that we're winningfrom them, it just that brand
(52:03):
right, it's just.
You know, every commercial,even this time around the
holidays, the Santa drinking theCoca-Cola, you know, around
Atlanta, coca-cola executives,um, parents of kids, the
families that I just admired andthey had, like, the Coca-Cola
room.
Of all the old, you know,memorabilia, um, so that to me
(52:24):
is, is, is incredible.
I just that's the one I'm themost proud of, and and I think
right now, and, and and it's noteasy, right, these big accounts
, you don't make a lot of moneyon them, you know, but you do
get a lot of volume and you doget a lot of money.
You do get a lot of volume andyou do build your business.
But you know, contract andenterprise business you have to
(52:47):
manage so hard.
I mean you have to make surethat every account, every, every
, you know that you're payingattention to it daily.
I joke with the executivesaround Atlanta about Home Depot.
Like Home Depots are a count ofours, but they got.
They got as many people, Ithink, in logistics as NTG does,
like there's Biggest Shipper,walmart.
(53:07):
Any of these big men and women,right, like they, they'll crush
you.
Like they'll head to head likea 50 million or a hundred
million dollar top line fraybroker, home Depot is going to
whip your butt.
Like you are not making a lotof money on that account, I
don't care who it is, niagarawaters, niagara waters going to
smoke you if you don't know whatyou're doing.
(53:28):
So you know, just because I lovethe Coca-Cola account doesn't
mean I'm going to make any moneyon it next month or the next
month, right, but at some pointwe will, and we do.
We do make more than we lose,but you know.
So sometimes the big brandisn't always the best.
I also love the mom and pop.
You know that I don't even callthem mom and pop, but like the
(53:49):
midsize shipper that does 200truckloads a week, like that's a
great account.
So they're all good, but Cokemeans the most to me right now,
just because of how long Ichased it.
Speaker 1 (54:03):
You see a lot of meaning in that, especially when
you put in so much work and tofinally get it.
It's the satisfaction there ismore than just the brand man.
It's been great, kevin.
This has been an awesomeconversation.
Any last takeaways to leavewith our listeners, or any last
words of wisdom for all thesalespeople that are out there
(54:25):
listening?
Speaker 3 (54:25):
All right.
So a trick I have I pulled myarm hairs.
I think I've said that beforebut, like you know, just it'll
wake you up before you go intothe meeting.
Yank your arm.
If you don't have any arm hairs, maybe an eyebrow.
If you don't have any eyebrows,maybe pinch yourself.
But be awake, go do a face toface, go see somebody, go, you
(54:49):
know, and then just keepgrinding.
You know the slumps that I'vebeen in it's usually not because
of my work, it's usuallybecause of, like, stuff going on
outside of my work.
So you know, the bestsalespeople I've seen are the
men and women who can turn offand off that switch, turn on and
(55:09):
off that switch and just getinto the sales mode of like, I'm
going to do sales for an hourright now.
I'm going to do sales for anhour and a half right now.
And that does not mean going inand finding leads for the next
time you do sales.
That means you go into thatroom and you go bang out calls,
you go bang out emails, youwrite handwritten notes.
(55:30):
You do something for an hourand a half every day sales
oriented.
That's outbound and you'll maketons of money.
I mean, that's that.
You know, if it's a muscle thatyou work out, work out your
sales, work it out, work it outevery day.
You have to do something salesoriented or your business will
shrink.
Speaker 2 (55:54):
It's all about.
You can't grow the top linefast enough.
Speaker 3 (55:58):
I mean the top line.
The top line is the start ofeverything, right, and then, as
it trickles down, then you gotto pay attention to everything
else, and everything else issales as well.
The other thing, you know I'vethought about it a little bit
more since you've asked me thesales that I'm the most proud of
, I think it's convincing menand women to come work with and
(56:19):
for me, right, that is theultimate sale.
If someone's willing to give 50hours a week or whatever they
really do, to some of them 100,you know some of them you know
around the clock, some of themless, but if they're really
willing to give their time andeffort to come represent what I
started like I sold them, like Isold them.
(56:40):
And then that's that, to me, isthe most special thing, most
powerful, and the sales that I'mthe most proud of, because,
again, sales is everything inbusiness.
You're constantly.
You got to sell someone to comework for you.
You got to sell somebody to beyour vendor.
I mean it's, it's nonstop.
So I love that you're focusedon this.
2021 to 2023 are industry didnot have enough sales focus.
(57:05):
We didn't have to, right, andso you got to re crank that
sales engine.
So let's see what you can do2024 is right around the corner.
It's going to be big.
Speaker 1 (57:17):
Thanks so much for joining us, Kevin.
Appreciate your time and lookforward to the next conversation
.
Speaker 3 (57:24):
Heck, yeah, thank you guys.
Welcome to episode three of the last sale.
We're moving right along.
This is a good one, kevin,especially because I was in a
conversation with two Kevin's onthis one.
It was me and Kevin squared.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
It was Kevin's all over the place, but the one only
Kevin Nolan.
I joined us for this episodetalking about his career in
sales, freight brokerage andthen factoring and now payments
coming up.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Yeah, exactly.
I immediately thought of thescene from home alone, where the
mom Suddenly realizes that sheleft Kevin at home.
She was Kevin.
You know I was.
That was just playing in mymind over and over during the
whole episode.
But no, it was a greatconversation and it was cool to
hear about selling a companythat has your name attached to
(00:52):
it.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
You know, and Not everybody gets to do that and
that's got to be a weird feelingand I was fun to explore with
Kevin Kevin Nolan that it's yeah, I think you have to be a
hustler to be able to do thatand Kevin Nolan is a hustler and
in his last sell and his answerto that Really brings it home.
I think I really appreciatedthat answer Because we think
(01:16):
about the big.
You know it's gonna be some bigsell, but maybe it's just going
back to the roots and doing onelast fight, and one for the
hell of it.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Yeah, and it kind of gets to.
You know, even for somebody whohas as driven as Kevin and
Money-hungry you might say who'sbuilt a little empire still
wanted to go back to a last salethat Doesn't necessarily have
the most monetary value butmaybe has quite a lot of a
(01:47):
Different type of value.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Yeah, it was a fascinating conversation and
went a lot of differentdirections or a lot of surprises
, but yeah, always, always goodto chat with him and it's, you
know, it's exciting to talkabout his different adventures,
his new ventures, paymentprocessing, and it just so
happens that he is the last salePodcast sponsor number one.
(02:14):
Here we are in episode three.
So payhawk, you know it's, it'sexciting.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
It is exciting as a payment processing system for
for businesses of all sizes, allindustries, but but for a
brokerage as well, right so,being able to to process
payments in a very efficient,cost-effective way.
He's going after that marketand there's a lot of use cases
for Collecting payments from,from your customers.
(02:43):
You know getting it todaybecause, as we discussed and
Kevin pointed out, is that asell is not final Until you
collect the money, and that's atheme that they were talking
about today as well.
So Don't let outdated paymentsystems hold you back.
Go payhawk.
Empowers you to focus on whatyou do best run your business
(03:04):
while they handle the restcollecting that money, making
those sales.
Final visit go payhawkcom today.
Use code TLX 24 to get a freeconsole Consolation plus a $250
credit on your first paymentsover the first 90 days go check
(03:26):
it out, see how they can pay,save you some money and help
streamline your operation.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
So, yeah, happy to have them on board as a sponsor.
Super cool conversation.
I hope you all enjoy it.
Enjoy the conversation and letus know what you like.
Let us know what you didn'tlike.
That might be helpful too, andLook forward to seeing you on
the next episode.
Enjoy.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Yeah, so sales.
Sales for me started probablywhen when I was playing sports
and we had to raise money forthe teams.
So whether it was Eminem boxsales or Program ad sales,
whatever it was, I mean I evenhad a young age said, look, I
want my team or my group orwhatever we're doing to win.
(04:11):
So we would, we would get asmany boxes of Eminem's as we
could.
We would stand on the cornersOn Johnson's Ferry Road, roswell
Road in Atlanta, shake thoseEminem's and people's windows
and we would.
We would come back because thecoaches Look, you know, to their
credit I always say greatcoaches would make great sales
(04:34):
leaders and they would give uswhat they called lawn chairs and
lemonade's at football camp.
So if you sold the most boxes ofEminem's, you got to watch
everybody else run duringmorning, running up Lawn chairs
and drink lemonade if you soldthe most.
So don't think I didn't lovesitting there razzin my
(04:56):
teammates.
Right, we're doing that.
So that's where sales startedfor me.
So I'm excited to talk aboutthe stuff that you guys sent
over and and get into this.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Appreciate coming on the show.
There's a couple questions Ihave for you.
One's your t-shirt, iba dog.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
Yeah, he would die.
Why we need?
We need more of it wheneverybody needs more of it,
especially in the freight gameright now.
But my daughters.
And my wife gave me this for forChristmas.
I, you know, they hear me sayit, they've.
Actually, when we went down toFlorida one time and we were
(05:39):
walking around the docks andeverything else, there was a
boat there that somebody namedit, that which, so you know it's
important.
It stands for earnings beforeinterests, tax depreciation and
amortization.
So businesses, a lot, arevalued on Iba da multiples.
So Iba da or there's an oldschool way I used to say it of
(06:04):
Iba da, those Some of the guys,that girls that know me.
You know they'll be like Kevin,that's a really old school the
way you're saying that.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
So and that goes back to what we were saying right
before I hit record, and that isthe cell is not done Until you
get the money.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Right, right, and that's actually the.
The most important part of thesales process is getting paid
Right and getting paid in amanner that doesn't come across
as Jerky or obnoxious and andthat'll make them want to come
back again.
Right, and I think a lot ofpeople know that during my
non-compete days I worked atWaffle House and and, and the
(06:44):
one thing about Waffle House isthey.
They said get the check outquick.
Right, not only will you turnthe table fast and get somebody
else in that real estate,that'll make money, but nobody
wants to wait around for a checkbecause it's the last thing you
remember.
Right, the last touch point ina sale is usually the payment
Right, and so you want to makesure that payment is is is clean
(07:08):
and is, you know, not offensive, but also like you got to get
paid, sometimes in a collectionstandpoint, and then you got to
be firm.
So, yeah, it's a balance thethe sale is not done until
you're paid, that's for sure,paid in full.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Yeah, I'm going, kevin, I know most of our
audience, or soon to haveaudience, will know you, but
there may be people who don'tknow you, so just quick
introduction about who you are,what you've done, just a
reflittle intro for the audience.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
Yeah, so I'm a.
I'm a freight broker at heart,and what that means is we
arrange Transportation.
So we're the middle man orwoman in between a Shipper and a
mode of transportation, whetherthat's a trucker, a sprinter
van, a Drage carrier, an oceancontent, whatever it is.
We're in the middle, right, wearrange it and so that's that's.
(08:05):
I started a business that didthat in 05 called Nolan
transportation group.
In 2018, after growing thatbusiness, I sold majority of
that to Transportation insightand and their private equity
group, griffin out of SanFrancisco.
So I'm on the board of thatcompany, still actively involved
, not in a management role, but,you know, talking to Ken Bayer,
(08:28):
the CEO, talking to the otherboard members, talking to the
sales leaders, helping, you know, push.
But so that was.
That was my first largebusiness that I started and it's
awesome.
It's still growing today andthe leadership there is really
really strong and that businessTop 10 freight broker in the US
out of.
I think there's now 20,000freight brokers in the US.
(08:51):
Another business I started, otrcapital, which is now OTR
solutions.
That is a Solutions company fortruckers.
So truckers have a reallyreally hard time on the road.
We provide financing for them,we provide fuel cards.
We provide a banking Typesolution and clutch cards that
(09:12):
they can use to manage theirfleets, so that's an awesome
business.
I Sold majority of that in 2021To a group out of Boston called
Summit partners.
They're awesome.
They used to own Fleet core,which is another Atlanta based
company, and so they're growingthat like crazy.
I have an insurance business,marquee insurance group, where
(09:34):
we sell insurance to Truckingcompany, so there's a theme here
.
So everything I do, you know,mainly focuses around logistics
and then and then the last onethat we've started most of our
industry is payhawk, go payhawk,and basically that is a digital
payments platform, because somuch of our industry that I've
seen over time is paid in livecheck.
(09:54):
Ach is kind of consideredcutting edge.
There are so many more paymentoptions out there, not only from
traditional credit cards to allkinds of subscription type
payments.
We're getting more into crypto.
There's a lot of differentthings that we're doing over at
payhawk, which is really fun,and then have a family office,
(10:15):
so set from selling thesecompanies and, you know, having
some good, successful outcomes.
I still am an entrepreneur atheart and so with that, I've
started so Creek Capital, wherewe'll invest in Up-and-coming
businesses and help thoseentrepreneurs through the
questions and things that I'vegone through in the past,
whether that in some of themgraduate on and most of them due
(10:35):
to larger Private equitycompanies or are bought by
larger strategic, and so I meanI just have a lot of fun.
And then I've got a family,been married for 23 years, got
three daughters, 22, 17 and 14,love sports, like to fish, which
I think is very, very similarto sales fishing, for sure, but
(10:57):
that's me very similar itreminds me that you know, what
were you doing right now?
Speaker 2 (11:01):
It reminds me of that .
The report that I've been doingis that the reporter, or
someone, asked Willie Nelson onetime is when are you gonna
retire?
It's like, well, all I do isplay music with my friends and
golf, which one do you want meto give up?
Right, right, it's just I meanlook.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
I, I Love it ever since I was young.
I've always loved Beatingnumbers.
You know it's a game, right,and logistics is a never-ending
puzzle.
Every day it changes.
There are so many pieces, it'sfragmenting, or everyone talks
about fragmented industries.
I love to sell into fragmentedindustries, right, where you
(11:41):
know Barrier to entry might notbe that hard to get in, but
hustle, know-how, usingtechnology, you can beat others
like that's what I love, right,and so logistics is that and all
the ancillary products of it,whether it's the finance aspect,
the insurance aspect, thepayments aspect, technology as
(12:01):
well, you know.
So that's that's what I do, andand the main thing that I do
when I help businesses is Ichallenge management To really
push and grow sales, becausewithout a big top line you
cannot have a big bottom linejust does not work and You're
gonna lose your customers oneway or another.
(12:22):
You know.
Hopefully it's not through yourbad service, but it might be
through, you know them, themhaving an acquisition happen, or
you never know.
So you always have to beselling for or it's the best,
it's the best.
Defense is the best is a goodoffense.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
So Sales, sales, sales you know, that's one thing
that we have in common is, youknow, I grew up in Atlanta as
well, played baseball, you know,for most of my life Over at you
go to high school.
I went to Chambley high schooland then we moved to Alpharetta
and I graduated from Milton.
But I played on travel ballteams.
(13:02):
First travel ball team withsome Moore's Mill bombers off of
Moore's Mill Road.
You know where that?
Speaker 3 (13:06):
is.
Yeah and yeah, I play for EastCobb and these cob Astros and
the George Tigers and so I livein East Cobb and so I didn't
play baseball, but I wish I didright.
And so by the time that I wishthat I had played baseball, it
was too late because of thatwhole Atlanta.
The Atlanta baseball scene isawesome, right, and you know.
(13:29):
So I live in East Cobb, so allthose guys and the in the trips
they would have, I mean I'm sureyou have stories and stories of
cards and you know all the, allthe travel baseball you did,
and you know just just thoseguys, the camaraderie they had.
And then even in college, whenI played football in college,
the baseball team was like theirown Fertinity, so to say.
(13:50):
Right, they, the coach wouldn'tlet them join a fraternity, but
they, they were so tight-knit,like when they walked into a
party.
Be like all the baseball teamshere, right, it's just that it's
awesome.
Milton, milton B, walton.
The other night, that's that'sI went to Walton and so Milton
just won the state championshipin football.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Where are you now Are ?
You in Atlanta.
Now I'm in Chattanooga,Tennessee, so I'm alright.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
So you're in Chattanooga, Kevin.
What about you?
Where are you at?
Speaker 2 (14:16):
I'm in Fort Worth.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
All right, nice.
So you're not far, you're justup 75.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Yep, and I remember selling candy bars as a 12 year
old and 13 year old and 14 yearold kid to fund all of these.
You know they would tell usbefore the season started.
All right, here's the travelschedule.
Here's where we're going.
Here's the hotels we're stayingat.
Here's the entry fees, theuniform fees Every you know
we're the coaches were paid, soevery kid was responsible for I
(14:45):
don't know.
It was like 5k a season orsomething.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
And you know, and that's a lot of money.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Here's some candy bars.
Go sell them.
You sell all these candy barsand you got your season paid for
.
So that was you know my parentswould.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
Tell me bucks at a time.
So you sold a lot of candy bars, right?
I mean two bucks per right, Imean the margin on it couldn't
have been more than a buck,right?
So you?
Speaker 1 (15:12):
sold a lot has to be responsible for, like a certain
level of, like diabetes or bloodsugar problems we live in
Atlanta, my best customer ismore responsible than anybody.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
Coca-cola, right Like I'm the biggest drug dealer in
the South, moving that shitaround.
I Love it, I love it.
It's the most beautiful thingin the world my daughter will,
you know, no matter where we are.
And don't get me wrong, pepsi'spretty good too, but but you
know a good, good Coca-Cola inthe South.
Nobody can do better with that.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
So I think, I think.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
I Think you're right, though there's, there's,
there's something to the GirlScout cookies too.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
So with that in mind, segue Two-part question.
First part is where is yourfavorite place to go vacation?
If you got one more vacationleft, where are you going?
Are you going to the beach oryou going to the mountain?
Speaker 3 (16:11):
barbuda, barbuda, it's.
It looks fake.
Right, it's, it's Barbuda.
It's a little island off ofAntigua, I believe I was not
there long but I was.
We stopped by, you know, on aon a little cruise one time
there and it just it looked fake.
They have a little no boo likea pop-up no boo, that's there on
(16:34):
the.
I don't even know if it wasreal, that's, you know, and I
was there.
I remember looking around andsaying life might be a
simulation, but there, like Iwas, just I kind of.
Or or Italy.
I went to Italy this past yearFor the first time ever in the
food, and it just felt likewhere humans were supposed to
live.
So I Would say barbuda or Italy, but you know, I think bar, I
(17:00):
would say Italy.
I would go with Italy again,would probably.
Okay first time a year.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
What's your favorite drink?
Yeah, if you're gonna have onedrink, alcoholic, non-alcoholic,
but just whatever milk.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
Milk, ice-cold, glass of milk, right.
So like my, my partners in OTRsolutions that are out of Boston
, they, we did a board meetingup there and they they made sure
that I had my milk at dinner aswell as at the, at the, at the
Red Sox game.
So they joke with me about Ilove milk man, I love milk and
(17:37):
water.
Those are, those are my dailygo-tos.
I used to crush Miller lightlike nobody's business, but Off
that now.
But yeah, glass of milk.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
So let's say, I want you just to imagine Way off into
the future.
You're done working, work isover, and you're on a beach in
Italy, retired, and you got anice big cold glass of milk in
your hand.
There's there's people walkingthe beach, they got trays full
of milk.
There's table.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
One.
I don't eat trays One ice-cold,one a day.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Do you have the big glass of milk in your hand?
You're thinking back throughyour career.
What's the last sale you evermade?
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Mmm oh.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
I think my last sale like if I could go out, honestly
it'd probably be like a shipperin the Midwest Just call them
up through a manufacturing guideor maybe an association list,
ask them they're tough as laneand book that load, make $200
margin on it and strut out ofthe office.
(18:55):
That would be the way that if Icould end it.
Or a 25 power unit trucker outof Elk Grove Village, illinois,
switching them over from Apex orRTS to OTR, one of those I mean
I don't know, I mean maybeagain a 50 power unit at Markey,
(19:18):
but maybe just the old sweetspot.
Like my first sale ever was asmall shipper out of Charlotte
called Mitchum Potato Chips.
They're not in business anymorebut I helped them move loads to
the Northeast, go into reallybad food warehouses that had to
have appointments and lumpersand everything else, but dang, I
(19:42):
love moving those loads.
So I would say my last sale ifI could make it that right, kind
of like you know, if I got toput on my broker hat one last
day, just like you know, theykind of like signed the one year
contract for people to go inthe hall of fame or whatever.
Just book one load and justwalk out, but I'd make sure I
(20:06):
booked it less than the lastperson who moved that lane.
At least $2 less, right, so Iwould.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
So really just back to basics, back to that feeling
of the beginning, right thebeginning of your career.
There's nothing more pure.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
I mean, look as a freight broker, it's three
dimensional You're buying,you're selling, you're managing,
right.
So it's like a full on deal,right.
Like you get the load and thenyou got to find the equipment in
the truck and then you got toschedule it and then it delivers
.
It's just clean, right, it'sjust done, and you move on Like
a clean bill of lading is aclean sale, right.
(20:46):
You just go on to the next one,right?
Speaker 2 (20:50):
So that would be clean.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
Oh yeah, and look, I still think it's a and we talk
about it all the time.
You know, is cradle to grave orcarrier sales model better.
See, I was at CH Robinson so Isaw, when we bought American
backhaulers, the power of layinga big carrier sales force on
top of a big customer salesorganization, right.
(21:14):
And then you saw that withCoyote and Access kind of
similar.
So we did it a little reversebecause I wanted to buy a
carrier sales organization butlike I would have had to kind of
cut down on organic growth andthat it was a man like M&A
versus Greenfield.
And so we've, we've homegrownit, but I'm not fully convinced.
(21:37):
I mean, we'll, we'll work itright, we'll have a true buy and
sell side.
That'll be really really goodover time.
But you know, two large onescoming together is really
powerful.
And so I saw that at Robinsonand you know have have really
tried to recreate it at NTG andand and then I you know, as I've
transitioned out the managementteam, they're Perry, drew, ken,
(22:01):
those guys have done a greatjob with it and so I think they
covered 99% of them.
Customer sale, cradle to grave,yeah, that's, that's the way I
started the business, and a lotof nights, weekends, uh,
rebookings, everything else.
So when it goes bad, everyonealways says carrier sales adds
another layer.
But when it goes good it's likebeautiful.
(22:23):
So you know it's again.
I think it's a.
It's a, it's a debate that's aninteresting one in the in the
Frey Brokerage game.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
It is.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
It's really I started out cradle grave too.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
That is kind of.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
All I ever did was cradle grave.
So I don't mean no with otherside, even kind of looks like,
but it's, it's a simple cradle.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
I was cradle grave.
I mean, let's just back up tomy days at Robinson.
So I was cradle to grave,started in Columbia, south
Carolina office.
It's where I learned how tosell.
Some young, some some youngleaders in there took me under
their wing and really showed mehow to fight objections, really
showed me how to work on myscript.
I mean I would drive to workworking on it.
You know it was we, would we,we would pound out role playing
(23:10):
all the time.
So I took a lot of that and andbrought it all into NTG.
But when we had access, I mean Ialways equated to the access of
America Coyote thing and I justlistened to Ted talk about this
too.
But when, when, when Americanback haulers came into CH
(23:31):
Robinson, all my loads werecovered like by 830 every day
for the first week and like I asa control person and like to
have control or whatever else,was like who the hell do these
people think they are booking myloads?
And then, like two weeks laterit just clicked like okay, now I
can go sell, now I don't haveto stare at the load board, now
(23:54):
I don't have to worry if thatguy or girl is getting unloaded
Right and then I have to call mycustomer and read book or
everything else.
I go, do what I do best andsell, and so that aspect is
extremely powerful.
So it's interesting, it's aninteresting conversation, but I,
I, I like carrier sales becauseif I'm a carrier salesman or
(24:16):
woman, now I have access to sellcapacity into my company and so
as many truckers as I can get,or as big of a truckers or or I
can get like every time thosemove in my system, I make money
Like that's awesome.
So I don't know, I like it all.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Yeah, that's.
It's almost like you're goingfull circle, right?
Your first sale and the lastsale that we talked about are so
similar and that it's a cradleto grave.
Hey, I'm gonna make this move.
I'm either getting started orI'm headed off to drink my glass
of milk on the beach in Italy.
But let's think about the otherend of that circle what was the
(25:02):
largest sale or the biggestsale that you ever made so far?
Maybe there's more on the radarto come down the road in the
future, but to date, like what'swhat's one of the bigger sales,
and you don't have to tell youdetails or don't want you to,
like cough up any sensitiveinformation, but just want to
hear about what that looked like.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
Yeah, I mean.
So again, I think sales iseverything right.
And so when a bank decides orbelieves that they're going to
give one of my businesses areally large line right, knowing
and worrying about you know, isthe business pretty enough?
Or if I sell a business to aprivate equity group, they look
(25:49):
at it really really hard, youknow, they dissect it, they
dissect me, they dissect all theother management team.
So I would say, probably thesell of NTG, right, like to take
a business and to have thecompanies that wanted to buy it
(26:12):
all trying to buy it, havingwhat I believe is the best
investment banking group andHarris Williams representing it.
Right and selling it.
It's just that to me.
And the transaction being done.
You know it was like a loadright, like we said, hey, we
want to close an X amount ofdays, right, and if you don't
(26:33):
close an X amount of days, youknow, we don't know if it's
going to work out.
And you know, then we had torun around and meet their banks,
right, they were running methrough the town of San
Francisco.
So that, to me, is the mostproud because it's got my name
tied to it.
It started in a 700 square footoffice space.
You know, I had friends, family, people questioning was it the
(26:57):
right decision to go out on myown?
I mean, I had a great, greattrajectory at Robinson, right.
And so to me, when thathappened you know it was on the
Wall Street Journal that waslike my biggest sale ever by far
and it set up my family and itset up my family office and I
(27:18):
was dissected like I've neverbeen dissected.
And you know, then the nexttime it happened, right with OTR
, when I sold that, I wasprepared right, I wasn't fully,
but I don't think anyone's stillfully prepared to sell
something they worked so hard onand put their life into.
But you know, that was that'smy biggest one.
(27:39):
And that one, you know yourbiggest one also comes with a
lot of other.
You know emotions, right, andso that to me was was the best
because it was touch and go attimes, right, you know Paul
Thompson, founder ofTransportation Insight, he had
other brokerages right on hisshortlist, right, and so if we
didn't come across the right way, it wasn't going to be us.
(28:01):
And so my whole management team, gosh, and the men and women
that worked on getting the youknow all the ins and outs.
So that was by far the bestsale you know of business.
And then, when it comes to thebrands you know and the freight
game, my biggest sale, like as ayoung broker, was Enforcer
(28:25):
Products, which was a divisionof ZEP, which was a division of
Acuity Brands.
And so in that situation, likeI got in with the enforcer side,
which then led me into ZEP,which then led me into Acuity,
right, and so it was like this,this whole snowball that made me
(28:45):
learn like, hey, accountpenetration, what you get in the
beginning is only just a littletip of the iceberg, like let's
study that account and see whatelse is there.
So those are, those are the twothat I kind of like you know.
So my first business saleEnforcer Products that was big,
out of Emerson, georgia.
I remember pulling up to the, tothe, to the docks, and there
(29:08):
was like 80 doors or whatever itwas, and then they were adding
on more.
They had a rail spur, like youknow.
They had containers and allthis and I found them through a
manufacturing guide.
Literally they told phone bookmanufacturing guides that they
had, and I still order them.
Sometimes you can find themonline 2005 edition, 2007, 2018.
(29:30):
And so that was just out of astraight call.
Called Neil Terralo was theshipping manager there.
I went and saw him face to face.
It was awesome.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
So those both of those are starting small.
Right, you're starting in a 700square foot office striking out
on your own, or then, also withEnforcer, you're starting with
a relatively small accountthat's leading into something,
something big.
Did you have those big targetswhen you first started, when you
first opened up that thatoffice where you think, and I'm
(30:03):
going to get to X and then I'mgoing to sell, and the same
thing with Enforcer, whereyou're like I'm going to start
here and then I'm going to endin this future state where I'm
going to have the parent of theparent's brand and have this big
account Now or like.
What was that?
What was that journey like,getting from from small to big
in terms of your vision?
(30:24):
At what point did you see afinish line and say, oh, I know
where we're going now?
Speaker 3 (30:31):
You know probably Well on NTG, I started it with
the mindset in the mantra topfive freight broker.
It meant a lot different in2005 than it means now.
Right, I think I got a lot thatthe, you know, when I left, ti
and NTG together is now biggerthan Robinson when I left.
I think it might be double, Idon't know exactly, but when I
(30:55):
left Robinson it was like threebillion in revenue and there was
not anyone else near a billion.
Right Now there's 18, I think,or so, that are over it.
So the game has changed a lot.
But to answer your question,even on the Enforcer aspect, I
just like to get in there, right, and once I get in there, or
once I'm at something, I'm goingto play as hard as I can.
(31:17):
I'm going to look at all theangles and I'm going to try to
figure it out and really kind ofjust be in there and be there.
Now I got to get there, I gotto get in it Right, like that's
the.
You know I had a coach oncethat said hey, nolan, once
you're here, nobody plays harder, but getting you here is a
little tough, right.
So once I, once I landsomething or once I'm in it like
(31:38):
okay, I like it, there's,there's not going to be much.
You know that I'm not going tofigure out and know everything
on it.
Like I'm the kind of guy thatwhen I watch a movie, like the
actor or the actress, if I likethem, I'm going to know
everything else.
They've been in by like 15minutes into the movie.
So I just, you know, I like tokind of piece the puzzles
(31:59):
together and look, and then ifthere's always somebody you know
, like on the acuity thing,which acuity had a ton more
other brands that we ended uplanding, but sometimes like
that's the push off, that's theobjection, like there's a big
brother that won't let me signyou up, or hey, you're not
(32:19):
approved by so and so and we'reowned by so and so, okay, well,
I'm going to go try to getapproved by them, and then and
then and then, if they like meor like my business or like my
prices, I'm going to win moreout of it.
So sometimes it was just anobjection that I had to fight
through specifically on thataccount for sure.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
I have a question for you, back to the cell of NTG,
because it's something I'vealways wondered.
So it's just a curiosity on mypart.
What's the one set deal closesand that the funds are dispersed
, does it just go into one bankaccount?
Speaker 3 (32:53):
for you, right?
What do you mean?
What do you mean by that?
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Like the the, so it's acquired.
Speaker 3 (32:59):
My money or like your money.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
Yeah, so you're share of the equity right.
Does it just hit one bankaccount?
Speaker 3 (33:08):
Well, it goes to a lawyer's bank account, right?
So it goes to a lawyer's bankaccount, and then that lawyer
then sends it to your one bankaccount, right?
And then you've got to disperseit from there or figure out
where to put it and whatnot.
But yeah it was exciting.
I mean, on the NTG side I thinkwe had like 244 people get paid
(33:28):
Right.
So it was sweet, right and andand you know everybody,
everybody helped build that andit still is, and then they'll,
you know, then they were all.
We all rolled too Right.
So it was like, hey, we want tobe in this logistics asset that
we feel like is the best still,and then we want to combine it
(33:50):
with another business that wethink is really really good, if
not the best managed transbusiness, which has a sticky,
steady income versus a brokeragewhich is up and down, and so
it's been a really really goodmarriage because of that.
And so we all rolled Right andso we're all still shareholders
in the in the business.
So, like our portion of equity,that was cash we got, and then
(34:12):
our portion was not rolled intothe, to the, to the mothership,
so to say, and Paul's bought ineight companies in that group.
So it's highly diversifiedlogistics stuff.
We're in parcel LTL, managedtrans, freight, payment and
audit.
You know a lot of differentstuff.
So it's pretty sweet.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Cool.
So let's go back to the firstday's or maybe not even the
freight workers, but the, theOTR days kind of what are some
you know a stressful sell andthat can roll into the stressful
sell, into a slump Right.
And stressful slumps you've hadalong the way, where you get up
(34:56):
and you kind of, you know,question your confidence and be
able to sell, or be able to sell, or be able to get out of a
situation with, with sales.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
So OTR, otr.
Like you, you can oversell infactoring, right.
Like you can outsell your cash,which is a problem, right.
And so I never want to turnsales off, because once you turn
sales off it is very hard toreawaken a sales organization
(35:27):
that gets away from.
You know the activities thatthat, that that makes sales
happen.
But if you don't have enoughcapital you can't sell, right.
So you know, every time we addedlike a new 10 or 15 power unit
truck in company, we had to makesure we had enough capital to
(35:48):
support it.
So several times, like we wouldbe raising we don't have this
issue anymore at all.
But in the beginning, right likeyou have to raise cash to give
out, to give to truckers, to buyreceivables, to work on it, and
so we would run around town andmeet with people and raise
(36:11):
money.
And so when we did that, likethat was a sell, like that was a
, that was a sit down, like I'masking you for money, like I'm
asking you for $150,000 to putinto our business and you know
you're going to get everyquarter in return, and they
(36:32):
would be like, why don't you putit in?
I'd be like I've already put itin.
Look, this is how much I've putin Everything else.
So we had 44 individualinvestors and OTR at one time
with anywhere from $50,000 allthe way up to $4 million, and so
when we did the transactionwith Summit, like it kind of
cleared the majority of that outand had them as a large one.
(36:54):
But I would have my best salesguy, chris Ebel, who I think
some of you guys have met atsome of the conferences or
whatever else.
He'd come running in and be likewe just signed up a 30 power
unit guy and Fritz would be like, oh my gosh, we got to go get
600 grand tomorrow, kev.
And so having this large bankfacility now has changed that.
(37:15):
But Fritz and I would eat atthe same place twice, asking
rich families in Atlanta like,hey, we need some money or
whatever else.
And we would tell the waiterlike hey, please don't say you
just served us 15 minutes ago.
And we would be asking the same, we'd have the same
presentation.
But it'd be like hey, and mostfamilies loved it.
(37:37):
Right, because we gave them agreat sense of return.
They cheered for a companybased in Atlanta, right, and
there's a lot of the reason whywe are who we are today.
But that is a stressful sale.
Asking people for money to putinto your business is the
ultimate sale.
(37:58):
Like, because they have tobelieve full.
And this is like when thebirdie made off, stuff was going
on.
You know American read showscoming out.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
Right.
Speaker 3 (38:10):
And I'm not listen, I'm not a quiet human right, and
so I'm living big.
They're worried.
Am I, you know, gonna put itall in clubs or gamble it away?
I mean, it was, it was, it wasa lot, it was a lot.
But Fritz, having so, like inthose stressful sales situations
, having steadiness around you,is super important.
(38:33):
So if there's anything out ofthis podcast that people get, if
you're like an up and downvolatile person like I can be,
having steady, strong supportaround you is the most important
thing and like I've always hadthat.
So in those emotional sales orin those volatile sales, like I
got a crew around me that'sgonna calm me down, a but B,
(38:56):
like everyone's gonna look athim and like it's not just me,
right, so that's.
I don't know if that answersyour question.
I know that's not a traditionaltype sale but to me, to me,
asking for money is, is is partof the sales aspect.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
For sure, it definitely is.
Speaker 3 (39:14):
I'm glad we'll do that in New York, right Cause
I'd see these people now atweddings or whatever else.
I'd talk to them and be like,hey.
They'd be like, okay, that'sfine, how's OTR doing?
And I'd be like, hey, nope,how's OTR doing?
And then I, you know, but Ilove talking about business too.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
So that's great.
So is there a sale and this isa sensitive question Is there a
sale where you might've made amistake or something went
sideways and you feltembarrassed or guilty or bad?
Speaker 3 (39:46):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean there's a lot of that.
I mean being emotional.
And you know, conagra.
I mean we don't work withconagra at NTG anymore because I
went up there it was probably2017.
The spot market had just beenhot.
I mean, let's not kid ourselves, a lot of conagra staff is old
(40:08):
CH Robinson.
There's a lot of them that wasin that meeting with me.
You know thought that I tookadvantage of them in the spot
market and I didn't, and I lostit.
I lied, we walked out of thatplace.
We don't work with them anymore.
I can promise you that.
You know, and I should havetaken my medicine right.
And they don't know, they haveno idea.
There was no transparency on,you know, on this Friday load
(40:32):
but, by the way, that somebodyelse had given back to you that
I decided to help you pick upand I could have used those
trucks for everybody.
This is what I said, which Ishouldn't have said, but you
know that situation there was acustomer in the room and it
wasn't me, right, and so I lostour biggest account, you know.
And my salesman, you know WillStrickland, who's still with me
(40:53):
to this day, like you knowHarold Barron, who's my partner
at NTG.
He was in the room like Ididn't handle myself.
Well, you know, I waschallenged and there's a lot of
times I act like that, where,like if I feel fear, if I fear
like somebody doesn't like me,like I kind of coil and snap and
that was a bad one.
I mean that was a bad one.
And those men and women thatwere at Robinson with me that
(41:16):
worked really hard and run adamn good ship up there, they
didn't need to hear that crapthat day.
But I, you know I was, I showedmy butt a little bit there for
sure.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
And what was big takeaway about how not to get
yourself in that position again?
Speaker 3 (41:36):
I mean I don't know.
I mean there was there's somepast there, right, like I was at
Robinson and now I'm, you knowI have this big broker or
whatever else.
So I don't know, I mean I don'tknow, I don't know how I was
young, I mean I was, I was, Iwas a lot younger than I am now
and you know I would say thatthat I should have just sat
(42:00):
there.
You know, I talk too muchsometimes, like everybody knows
that about me, and in thatsituation I probably should have
just sat there and let Willtalk and let Harold talk.
But I don't know, I just feltlike, like I needed to defend
our position, that we were notmaking money and we were getting
those last minute loads becauseyour original providers were
not there for you, right, and weworked night and weekends and
(42:24):
all this to cover your freightand and and.
So you know, that's just thedifference between you know,
there's been a, there's been aand it's awesome.
Now, Thank the Lord, we haveall these men and women who came
over from Coyote and UPS andEcho and other places Now that
we've got this cross pollinationand TI and NTG, but like that's
(42:47):
been a hard thing for for forme being a what I believe one of
the best spot brokers to everplay in the game.
To then go play in the contractgame right and at LTL.
Like I didn't understand youhad to kiss the ring of the
carriers right, like you'rebecoming a liquor distributor.
(43:07):
You're getting the right tosell.
That's why I think carriersales was talking about earlier.
But that was hard for me aswell was when we were running
around trying to get directrates, becoming an LTL broker,
of the difference between howyou interact with a truckload
carrier and an LTL carrier.
So I didn't handle some ofthose conversations great in the
(43:29):
beginning either, but we'vewe've come around and learned
how to handle that a littlebetter.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
Yeah, it sounds if I'm hearing you there, it's.
The takeaway might have beenyou know the soft skills of
listening, even when you knowyou're in the right or you have
a good position, and justlearning how to better navigate
some of those sensitivities, soso valuable as you progress in
sales.
I feel like, and having livedthose types of things, I can
(43:56):
only imagine what you would dodifferently.
Or you know the success thatyou're able to have after the
fact because of those scenarios.
Speaker 3 (44:06):
Oh, I've learned from it.
For sure, I've learned from it.
Speaker 1 (44:10):
So, like on the flip side, what's the funniest sale
you've ever part of?
What was?
What was the sale?
How long?
Take all the death.
Crack it down.
There's a ton.
Speaker 3 (44:20):
Oh, there's a ton, there's so many, but the best
has got to be AJC Internationalin Atlanta.
So they are a like a chickenimporter right, like frozen
chicken center seconds, and theybuy and sell meats and they do
all this.
They've got a logistics branchdown but we used to move a ton
(44:43):
of freight for them,refrigerated stuff, down around
the borders, in and out of theports and they were doing this
health week and somehow some waywe call wind of it.
And me and Chris Evel and KyleRichards I dressed up as Richard
Simmons, kyle dressed up asGene Vonda and Evel like was
(45:05):
like my sidekick, and we went inand we did a full workout in
like Lea Tards and everything,and that was good.
And then Santa Claus I dressedup as Santa Claus.
Everyone in the Southeast youknow that was my customer from
05 to 13 probably had me stop byas a Santa Claus, deliver a
cookie, cake or.
(45:26):
But that dressing up as RichardSimmons probably my funniest by
far.
I still have the costume.
It's called the Simmons.
I mean it's fun, big win.
Speaker 1 (45:43):
I'm trying to picture this, Kevin, and it's an
interesting oh we ran in.
Speaker 3 (45:48):
I mean, look, we ran in.
I mean we ran into their office.
We were in and out of there inlike 20 minutes but we had the
whole place like up five, six,seven, eight, I mean it was just
.
I mean, we were, you know, wehad them doing all the moves,
stretching everything.
We had a big boom box we wereplaying.
Then we ran out of there, didyou?
Speaker 1 (46:07):
get more of a face.
Was it successful?
Did you get some sales out ofthat?
Speaker 3 (46:12):
Oh yeah, there was and that's the other thing right
Like when you go in, when yougo and do a face to face, you
get to meet everybody else inthe office, and some of those
men and women might be findingtrucks or need your service as
well.
So, yeah, we got a ton morepeople.
I remember that.
And then our intro emails orfollow-up calls were so easy.
(46:34):
It was like hey, this isRichard Simmons or hey, this is
Jay Fonda.
Speaker 2 (46:44):
Okay, let's go to this because I know about the
Air Force One story.
I think we swapped pictures ofour Air Force Ones.
What's the most money you gaveaway?
Or, all right, maybe not gaveaway, but what's the highest
dollar value of a salespromotion you did within your
company?
Probably the cruises.
Speaker 3 (47:06):
Maybe what was the best one.
I mean one like do you mean,well, we've done a Corvette that
we've given away to whoever youknow, booked the most
truckloads.
We've done cruises, for sure,where we've brought 150 people
and they're significant, otherspouse or date.
We've done cash giveaways, butI'd say probably, you know, it's
(47:34):
usually like around 80 to 100grand is the most that I'll do,
like what I call like a throwcash on the fire to kind of
light ignition and re-energizethat sales energy right, and so
I mean probably a hundred, 100at once.
Speaker 2 (47:56):
And it works right.
I don't think it works, or youwouldn't do it.
Speaker 3 (48:01):
No, it works for sure , but it's like a drug, right,
you can't do it all the time,right?
Or, like you know, it also likecreates.
You know it's good, it's good,it's something to kind of
sprinkle in, but it can't beyour whole MO, right, your
culture has to be good, yourproduct has to be good, your
services have to be good.
(48:21):
It can't be all about, you know, just getting the sales team to
stand up and work for, you know, quick cash or quick dollars,
you know, sometimes it also, youknow, again, I know what I'm
doing when I do it.
But sometimes I know that, likethe accounts that you get fast,
like that they're going toleave fast too, right?
So a lot of times, some ofthose sales quota busters type
(48:45):
things or whatever else, you adda lot of accounts.
They might not be extremelylong-term sticky value, but
they're sure as hell fun, like Imean, like we.
You know we do dollar, dollarlottoes in our business on
Fridays where you, you know,write the name on the dollars
and people drawing out and theyget the whole thing and you dump
cash on them.
Those days can be seven, eightgrand people are walking out
(49:06):
with, and I'll always juicethose pots on Fridays.
So you know, we love, love,love sales contests, like I
think, I think there's there's alot to them, you know.
But like you know, for MIG, inJanuary this month, doing
whoever does the mostface-to-face visits, the four
(49:27):
men or women that do the mostface-to-face visits will come to
Florida, hang out with me.
Fish will play golf, will do agood dinner and will review
their pipeline and everythingelse Like that one is going to
cost me maybe total, withflights, hotel rooms or whatever
else, 12 grand-ish.
But those four people that Ispend that time with, like it'll
(49:49):
be, it will be like we'll gel.
I'll help them close someaccounts, you know, I'll, you
know.
So that that is, that is that'sinvaluable to me.
Speaker 1 (50:00):
Yeah, I hear what you're saying.
I always think about like thosecontests as being, like you
know, lighter fluid.
Lighter fluid is great forgetting your coals going, but
you don't want to cook yoursteak on lighter fluid alone.
It's going to taste a littlefunny.
Speaker 3 (50:15):
So you got to have this, absolutely absolutely
absolutely.
Speaker 2 (50:22):
It really is Well, what's your most memorable self?
Kind of kind of the, the, theroller coaster.
I don't know if we've askedthis.
I will tell you this and I youknow my first conversation with
you was one of my most memorableconversations because I was in
a wasp of a home.
I was trying to run carrierless and I got this bright idea
of writing a handwritten note toeveryone in the top 100, the
(50:45):
CEOs right, and one personcalled me back and it was you.
I didn't make a sale that day,but it was a great conversation
I learned a lot.
Speaker 3 (50:54):
Yeah, absolutely.
Look, I, I, you know my mostmemorable favorite I, you know
we just got the big award fromCoca-Cola.
I know I brought them upearlier, but you know we're
we're moving more afraid withthem than we ever had.
And it's funny when, when themen and women go visit Coca-Cola
(51:17):
at their headquarters now, likemy picture, comes up, anything
with NTG, it's like hey, and Ithink it's like get this guy
away from the door, or like hey,he's coming, or you know, tell
him we don't have any freight.
So you know, having DrinkingCoca-Cola my whole life, I mean,
I, I think a lot of my success.
(51:39):
I ran on Diet Coke for years.
Um, I just, we were told no,for so long.
I mean I still have clients andcustomers.
That that I call them clientsand customers are not yet, but
they're, they're going to be,that that I haven't closed yet,
but that one, and winning thataccount and winning the amount
of volume that we're winningfrom them, it just that brand
(52:03):
right, it's just.
You know, every commercial,even this time around the
holidays, the Santa drinking theCoca-Cola, you know, around
Atlanta, coca-cola executives,um, parents of kids, the
families that I just admired andthey had, like, the Coca-Cola
room.
Of all the old, you know,memorabilia, um, so that to me
(52:24):
is, is, is incredible.
I just that's the one I'm themost proud of, and and I think
right now, and, and and it's noteasy, right, these big accounts
, you don't make a lot of moneyon them, you know, but you do
get a lot of volume and you doget a lot of money.
You do get a lot of volume andyou do build your business.
But you know, contract andenterprise business you have to
(52:47):
manage so hard.
I mean you have to make surethat every account, every, every
, you know that you're payingattention to it daily.
I joke with the executivesaround Atlanta about Home Depot.
Like Home Depots are a count ofours, but they got.
They got as many people, Ithink, in logistics as NTG does,
like there's Biggest Shipper,walmart.
(53:07):
Any of these big men and women,right, like they, they'll crush
you.
Like they'll head to head likea 50 million or a hundred
million dollar top line fraybroker, home Depot is going to
whip your butt.
Like you are not making a lotof money on that account, I
don't care who it is, niagarawaters, niagara waters going to
smoke you if you don't know whatyou're doing.
(53:28):
So you know, just because I lovethe Coca-Cola account doesn't
mean I'm going to make any moneyon it next month or the next
month, right, but at some pointwe will, and we do.
We do make more than we lose,but you know.
So sometimes the big brandisn't always the best.
I also love the mom and pop.
You know that I don't even callthem mom and pop, but like the
(53:49):
midsize shipper that does 200truckloads a week, like that's a
great account.
So they're all good, but Cokemeans the most to me right now,
just because of how long Ichased it.
Speaker 1 (54:03):
You see a lot of meaning in that, especially when
you put in so much work and tofinally get it.
It's the satisfaction there ismore than just the brand man.
It's been great, kevin.
This has been an awesomeconversation.
Any last takeaways to leavewith our listeners, or any last
words of wisdom for all thesalespeople that are out there
(54:25):
listening?
Speaker 3 (54:25):
All right.
So a trick I have I pulled myarm hairs.
I think I've said that beforebut, like you know, just it'll
wake you up before you go intothe meeting.
Yank your arm.
If you don't have any arm hairs, maybe an eyebrow.
If you don't have any eyebrows,maybe pinch yourself.
But be awake, go do a face toface, go see somebody, go, you
(54:49):
know, and then just keepgrinding.
You know the slumps that I'vebeen in it's usually not because
of my work, it's usuallybecause of, like, stuff going on
outside of my work.
So you know, the bestsalespeople I've seen are the
men and women who can turn offand off that switch, turn on and
(55:09):
off that switch and just getinto the sales mode of like, I'm
going to do sales for an hourright now.
I'm going to do sales for anhour and a half right now.
And that does not mean going inand finding leads for the next
time you do sales.
That means you go into thatroom and you go bang out calls,
you go bang out emails, youwrite handwritten notes.
(55:30):
You do something for an hourand a half every day sales
oriented.
That's outbound and you'll maketons of money.
I mean, that's that.
You know, if it's a muscle thatyou work out, work out your
sales, work it out, work it outevery day.
You have to do something salesoriented or your business will
shrink.
Speaker 2 (55:54):
It's all about.
You can't grow the top linefast enough.
Speaker 3 (55:58):
I mean the top line.
The top line is the start ofeverything, right, and then, as
it trickles down, then you gotto pay attention to everything
else, and everything else issales as well.
The other thing, you know I'vethought about it a little bit
more since you've asked me thesales that I'm the most proud of
, I think it's convincing menand women to come work with and
(56:19):
for me, right, that is theultimate sale.
If someone's willing to give 50hours a week or whatever they
really do, to some of them 100,you know some of them you know
around the clock, some of themless, but if they're really
willing to give their time andeffort to come represent what I
started like I sold them, like Isold them.
(56:40):
And then that's that, to me, isthe most special thing, most
powerful, and the sales that I'mthe most proud of, because,
again, sales is everything inbusiness.
You're constantly.
You got to sell someone to comework for you.
You got to sell somebody to beyour vendor.
I mean it's, it's nonstop.
So I love that you're focusedon this.
2021 to 2023 are industry didnot have enough sales focus.
(57:05):
We didn't have to, right, andso you got to re crank that
sales engine.
So let's see what you can do2024 is right around the corner.
It's going to be big.
Speaker 1 (57:17):
Thanks so much for joining us, Kevin.
Appreciate your time and lookforward to the next conversation
.
Speaker 3 (57:24):
Heck, yeah, thank you guys.
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