May 8, 2025 • 58 mins
Tuan Tranpham shares his extraordinary journey from Vietnamese refugee to 3D printing industry leader, offering unique insights on industry evolution, technological innovation, and future trends. His global perspective bridges Eastern and Western manufacturing approaches while highlighting continuous carbon fiber printing opportunities and microfactory development.
- Vietnamese refugee turned global 3D printing leader
- 3D printing in 2003, after Z Corp
- The Journey: 3D Systems, Desktop Metal, Anisoprint
- Industry consolidation and integration strategies
- Carbon fiber 3D printing for aerospace and defense
- Highlights China’s rapid rise in 3D printing innovation
- AI, robotics, and AM will enable portable microfactories
- Built a personal brand on LinkedIn
- Innovation is key to staying competitive
- Bravery and generosity in career growth
Subscribe to our premium version and support the show.
Follow us:
Twitter
Instagram
Linkedin
3DHEALS Website
Facebook
Facebook Group
Youtube channel
About Pitch3D
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the latest episode, number 84.
Today we dive into theextraordinary journey of Tuan
Chuan-Phan, a true veteran andglobal thought leader in the
world of 3D printing, with over22 years of experience spanning
pioneering companies like Zcorp3D Systems and Desktop Metal,
(00:22):
tuan shared not only hispersonal story, from being a
Vietnamese refugee to US techexecutive, but also his unique
perspective on the past, presentand bold future of additive
manufacturing.
Enjoy, hey Tuan.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
You're going to be calling an AI companion and the
host Shu-Bang.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Yeah, well, make sure that we capture you this time
and again.
I really appreciate you joiningthe pod this morning.
It's always a pleasure to talkto you, even twice for the same
content.
So, just for fun, to tellpeople what happened last week
is uh, we did a full an hour anda half recording session and
then we realized that we did notrecord.
(01:10):
So that is um, it was a reallygood conversation.
It was a it was a goodconversation well, let's, let's
rewind and uh talk, talk aboutuh.
You know, I think every time,every time I talk to you, things
are always different, but Ithink for people who don't know
you, it's always good to startfrom the beginning, and I do
(01:32):
anticipate multiple podcastswith you in the future to talk
about subjects with a moredeeper you know, deeper dive in
these various subjects.
But I think it's always good tohave a foundation, to know who
you are, where you come from andwhy you have certain
perspectives that you do so.
I know you have a reallyfascinating early career, early
(01:54):
life story, so I love to just tohear you to share with us what
that story is so I think what'sdriving is because they have a
saying that when you come fromnothing, anything is possible,
right?
Speaker 2 (02:14):
So a lot of people don't know this, but at the age
of five, at the fall of Saigonin 79, we left by boat.
So I'm actually a Vietnameseboat refugee and I lived for six
months in a Malaysian refugeecamp in 1979.
And we were supposed to, my twoyounger brother and my parents.
(02:35):
We were supposed to go toeither the US or Australia.
Those were the popular choices,but there was a long waiting
period and it was tough being 40, 000 on an island that only was
supposed to have 4 000 refugees.
So we couldn't continue tosustain and the danes were like
(02:55):
come to denmark.
It's like, where's denmark?
It's like it turns out inhindsight after 20, 23 years
that for a refugee, denmark isawesome.
You live amongst the Vikings,everything is free Education,
dental, you pay high tax, buteverything is free.
And so that was the beginningof my adult growing to become an
(03:21):
adult.
So I'm very Danish.
I don't look it.
So I was born in Asia, but Iwas raised and lived in Europe
for 23 years.
I still always had this thingabout the American dream that I
thought that my destiny, I hadto go to the US.
I left my parents behind andbrothers I didn't know how.
Who doesn't want to go toAmerica.
(03:42):
The company that I worked forin 1999 was doing 10 gigabit
serializer de-serializer, sothese were microchips at $5,000.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
It's a semiconductor industry.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Back then right, I just want to clarify.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
You're not always in 3D printing so before 3D
printing I was in semiconductorand we got acquired.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
I was in print number 81 and four months in I was
supposed to run Asia because Idid that for Intel for four
years and we got acquired byIntel for 1.25 billion cash, and
this is before the bubble ofthe summer of 2000.
This is March, so it couldn'thave been a better timing and
that was my ticket.
My mentor grew in the ranks andeventually became the GM of
(04:30):
Intel Denmark and he said dothis, this, this I will prove,
and off you go.
And that's how.
But I was actually supposed togo to Silicon Valley, but
because of a girl that I met,and but because of a girl that I
met who's now my wife, I endedup in Boston and and I would
never gone to Boston with a fourseason, just like in Europe,
(05:05):
no-transcript but because of her.
At a BU she studied law, she's aboring attorney, a tax attorney
, and it turns out at one of thereunion parties, a friend of
the friend happens to be thefinancial controller at Z
Corporation and I had lunch withhim in 2003.
(05:27):
I saw the ball bearing glue andsuper glue and powder starch
back then during Indiana Jonesexcavating, and I saw this ball
bearing and I fell in love withthis technology and I was like,
wow, in five years everybodywill be using it.
So that's how I got into 3Dprinting.
But I did a detour for 23 yearsin Copenhagen, denmark, awesome
(05:49):
country, just a little bit toosmall for me.
They have this, uh, this hiddenum law the gender law, meaning
that it's very socialistic.
Don't think you're better thanyour neighbor.
Don't try to stand out anddon't praise yourself.
Be like everybody, be like yourneighbor.
And I'm like I have one life.
I'm like I'm going to make themost out of this.
(06:10):
I was out of there, so mysalary doubled and I paid less
in tax.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
That was a good deal.
It sounds like we have to thankyour wife to give you to our
industry here and also update.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
I'm going to go visit Copenhagen soon.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
I've never seen it before, so I'm very excited
about it.
So now, zcorp was the startingpoint of your extraordinary
career and ever since I saw thisyou know you just sent me the
deck and I saw that you havegone through quite a few merger
(06:52):
acquisitions and quite a fewvery famous names in industry.
You know I don't really wantyou to go through every single
one of them because it will benot a podcast format, but what
are some of the highlights inyour career that you think you
know really were instrumentalfor you to open up your eyes, to
see something different orreally capture, I guess, the
essence of the industry and alsoyou see the potential of
(07:16):
scaling and something big, justsomething that's really
highlights.
Of these multiple milestones,where do you feel like it was
life-changing?
Speaker 2 (07:26):
I guess that's what I'm trying to find, I think, to
make it relevant to the currentconsolidation.
So about a decade ago, in 2013,I would say you know, history
tends to repeat itself.
So if you've been doing so,sometimes we don't really learn
from the past, but we reallyshould because there's a pattern
(07:48):
.
And that's one of my favoritebooks is who Moved my Cheese,
because if you detect and payattention to the detail and
small changes, you can almostpredict the trajectory of the
industry or where it's going.
So I've always been driven bytech.
So the first consolidation,major consolidation we talk
(08:09):
about a much simpler world, veryfew manufacturers, but what
happened was I left ZCorp in2010,.
Joined 3D System at the rise ofthe consumer products crying
BFB out of UK was the number onethree system back then, in
2013,.
But number four was equalbecause they needed a channel.
(08:31):
That was really the root cause.
Even applies to today.
When you talk about NASDAQ orNYSE, it's all about revenue.
Well, who's actually generatingthe revenue?
You need the frontline, therevenue generators, and you need
the best in class, becauseyou're only as good as your
revenue generators, right?
So number one, but number four.
That was the biggerconsolidation early of that year
(08:55):
, 2013.
And later in that year this iswhen I jumped over to object
because I like themulti-material, multi-material
properties and multiple colorsthat four months into an object,
instead of going public with Ithink the number was 75 million
they canceled that and decidedto merge with Stratasys, which
(09:18):
was, in hindsight, is really areverse acquisition, because the
biggest shareholder of objectwas HLM Cheklam and he owned a
huge chunk of the combinedentity as well.
So, no surprise, within 90 days, three quarters of all the
management were Israeli, so itwas really an interesting
takeover and me being inBellarica for Object Geometry
(09:41):
America, I was on the winningteam.
Right, we were buying stratuses, so you saw that big
consolidation in 2013.
Ten years later, in 2023, youstart to talk here about the
last few years, about attemptsto consolidate, but it was
really expensive.
So, in hindsight, thank God,nothing happened because 2024
(10:02):
was even cheaper and 2025 iseven cheaper.
And this is actually where weactually have Nano Dimension who
, at the rise of being a nobody,played the stock market and
raised funding and ended up with$1.3 billion in cash and you
can do a lot with that kind ofwatchers and no matter what
(10:22):
death of metal, they wereacquiring other big company like
envision tech, and next one,nano dimension, ended up buying
everything for cheaper, and alsonano also mod forge.
So the challenge now is um,it's always the having the right
people on the bus to actuallydo the work, to do the execution
.
So the biggest challenge isthey to actually do the work, to
(10:44):
do the execution.
So the biggest challenge isthey can go two ways.
It could be spectacular greatintegration cut the fat, cut the
overhead, simplify everything,keep it simple, focus on our
revenue.
It could be a great story andgreat for the industry, and
right now, nanodimension istrying to be the third largest
player, but it could be thebiggest one in the entire space.
(11:05):
If they play that card right.
They only have 845 million left.
But if they don't do it, rightand they don't have people who
actually know this industry andtheir leadership, it might go in
a different direction.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
I mean merger and acquisition very difficult to do
.
Well, to be honest with you Inhistory, I would say more than
80% I think I pulled thosenumbers somewhere, but it's
definitely more than 80% of themerger and acquisitions will not
go as defined as successful and, like you said, there are many
(11:40):
challenging parts of perfectintegration.
Asset allocation, I mean, justbecause you have money doesn't
mean it's going to be well usedto have a high return on
investment or equity or asset.
So it's you know, in thehistory of all these merger and
acquisitions in your mind, juston top of your head, what is
(12:03):
actually considered a goodacquisition so far.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
I would say the initial one.
I was kind of like thearchitect behind that right.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Because I left.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Zcorp and joined 3D System 2010.
They really needed to build achannel to go global and back
then Stratasys had the bestchannel and still has the best
channel, but mainly because theyare SOLIDWORKS vService and so
they had to build their ownsecondary and so them buying.
(12:37):
Zcorp gave them that channel toboost all the new product and
innovation acquisition that theyhave made.
So I think that went prettywell.
But it went well because theydid a deep cut from the very
beginning.
If you're going to make thingsright from the beginning, make a
hard decision in the beginning.
Don't do a second wave, becauseit just kills morale.
(12:58):
Do a big, huge cut in thebeginning and just focusing on
being honest with yourself.
Stop ego and revenue.
Look at what is actually makingmoney, but not just today, but
what will make money in fiveyears and what else is coming,
because all companies have anissue with blind spots.
They don't know what's coming,and there are companies and
(13:20):
products coming out that willchallenge Markforged even more
as early as this summer.
Are they aware of that?
I don't know.
So if they do a major cut andhave the right people to lead,
you know most companies havefull control.
It's their salespeople theydirect.
(13:41):
But it's a very differentfranchise model when you have
value-added reseller, becausethey're like mercenaries, they
don't have to sell your product.
But if there's a long historyand there's trust, is it really
a channel company?
And to answer that question,it's really the people you have.
Do they have the DNA of channel?
(14:04):
Do they understand those?
Because a true channel manageris actually a business
consultant.
He's not just a product salestrainer, because it's really
about collaborating beyond thesales and marketing and branding
and technical support to beyour virtual sales force as an
OEM, and that takes a differentmindset.
(14:25):
It's very rare that in thisindustry that you have people
who can do both.
Because just because you're thegreatest soccer player, like
Tom Brady, he's a greatquarterback, that doesn't
qualify, necessarily mean he'llbe an amazing coach and picking
players Not necessarily.
It's a different skill set.
(14:45):
It is a different mindset and Ithink you need to have an
understanding of both, becausein this world with so many OEMs,
often companies will have ahybrid model where you have
direct and even multiple layerof referral sales agent, virtual
direct resell, two-tierdistributor.
(15:06):
There it's getting more complex.
The world was similar 20 yearsago.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
So I'm not very familiar with sales and
marketing.
Can you just explain to us whata typical channel manager does
on a daily basis?
Speaker 2 (15:21):
I think the best part of being a channel manager is
you get to pick, you get torecruit, you get to.
So most company 3D printingstartup, they had the technology
, they make a product.
How do you go to market?
And the fast track is gettingpeople who actually sells the 3D
CAD software.
So if you have the content 3Dprinting is an output device
(15:43):
then they can.
So a sales manager does fivethings they profile, they go to
market strategy, they go out andrecruit all these resellers.
They educate and train thembeyond sales and marketing and
branding and servicing andapplication for recurring
revenue and technical supportfor service.
(16:03):
So it's a multi-facet.
So the channel manager hasevolved to be much more within
3D printing because it'shigh-tech sales.
It's not even cutting it, it'sbleeding it.
It's like people don't evenknow what a 3D printer is.
Yes, so you educate them, youmanage them and then you
evaluate recurrently whether youneed to refresh, because the
(16:25):
truth is they're likemercenaries and once you
depleted them if they don'tinvolve you kind of depleted
their comfort zone, theirinstall base, their 50 closest
friends.
But if they don't know how toextend their reach, then you
might need to.
That's why you saw in therecent years that the best way,
the only way for Marfo to grow,was to get more resellers, to
(16:47):
get revenue from demo units andthen, just like, they have like
seven resellers in Japan, whichis crazy because the business
market is not big enough.
So it's no surprise that yousaw a decline when they became
more selfish than actually beinga partner to their reseller
partners.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
I was going to ask you to name who in the industry
do you think are the bestchannel managers, but I think I
have one sitting right in frontof me and now you're the CEO of
Aniso Print.
President, how do you say itright?
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Aniso Print.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Aniso Print President .
How do you say it right Anisoprint An isoprint President.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Okay, so in most 3D printing you have a part like
SLA or carbon.
You have a part, so it'susually XYZ strong, that's
isotropic.
But for carbon fiber it'sreally not new.
(17:48):
Like for years, for years, fordecades, for all the planes that
you've been on, the fuselagewas done with carbon fiber but
it's very thick tape but thatwas only strong, uh, anisotropic
.
Anisotropic mean only in thedirection of the fiber is strong
, not in the Z.
So that's why anisotropicbecame anisotropic.
(18:09):
3d printing anisoprint.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
I see so it's stronger.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
In mechanical property it's only in the
direction, not in X, Y, Z.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Okay, got it.
Yeah, so it's like anydirection, basically right Only
direction of the fiber.
But is the fiber only onedirection or is it a randomized
direction?
It's one direction.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
So for here, in this case, you have layer by layer,
right, but you have continuouscarbon fiber around the hole.
I see, and you can do lattice,I see you apply it.
But if you pull the carbonfiber away from each other
vertically it will be verystrong.
But if you put a forceperpendicular, it will break
(18:50):
because it wasn't designed fromthat force.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
So, therefore, you can engineering it in such a way
to decide on what side of thestrength should be and what
direction it should be.
You can have full control ofthe end product.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
But then XYZ in the advent of what's coming.
It's usually newer technology,newer innovation.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
So we talk about planar.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
XY just moving the build bed.
But now we talk about I post alot about non-planar, really
about five axes and six axes.
That means now you're no longerconfined, the you're no longer
confined, the direction is nolonger confined just to X, y
every day at a time.
But now you can manipulate.
You can do a six axis roboticprinting that will go to the
(19:35):
next level and I have a changefrom that because I did a Revo
where we did a bike frame withcontinuous carbon fiber with a
six axis ABB.
So me going to a Revo with agantry-based desktop system is
kind of like an easier solutionthan a big robot that I have.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Yeah, I mean this sounds like exponential growth
future, because when we comefrom 2D space to 3D space, that
was explosion of us capable ofmaking new things, think
differently, and now we're goinginto even more directions.
Now we have more parameters toplay with.
What do you see as some of themajor applications of this kind
(20:15):
of technology For our technology, yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
So I think what is unique for us is, unlike anybody
else on the planet, forcontinuous carbon fiber is
anything that's airborne,because in essence it's kind of
like.
Kind of like your body wouldn'twork if you didn't have
reinforcement the bones insideyour body or the metal rebar in
(20:43):
any building on the planet.
So you need that reinforcement.
So it is common sense thatanything that is airborne,
especially if it's batterydriven.
What does that require?
It has to be strong but light,but light.
At certain things happening inEurope right now you can see the
(21:04):
rise and growth of drones, uavsand satellites and space and
aerospace Anything airborne.
It needs to be strong andlighter and especially with
regulated industry likeaerospace or space or outer
space with FAA, you also needhigh temperature in case of fire
(21:26):
that is somewhat resistant,flame retardant.
So this is where you might needmore than a stratus affordis.
You might want Ultem, which isalready quantified and
pre-approved, but we're the onlycompany in the world that on
top of that, we can even addcontinuous carbon fiber inside.
So this part for hightemperature for aerospace,
(21:49):
drones, ulv nobody else in theworld than an isoplane can do
high temperature with carbonfiber reinforcement.
So generally this is one of thereasons why I joined this
company, because there are a lotof the same or incremental
improvement.
But unless you are unique, youdon't deserve to live or get
(22:10):
funding.
And the reason why they're ableto do this is because we have
patented co-extrusion and thatmeans we can blend two filaments
into the same extruder head.
So here we have two filamentsgoing to one extruder head.
One is always continuous carbonfiber and one is a plastic.
(22:31):
It's an open platform.
You can change everything, it'soffline and the plastic you can
buy it locally from Polymakeror another brand, and so it's
awesome for research andcommercial research so yeah, so
twan is showing some slideswhich we will share later, um,
and also the video as well inthe future.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Um, so yeah, so it sounds like this is almost like
open source material selection.
Um, and of all the researchprojects that are ongoing, if
you can disclose, because I knowsome of them are preparatory
what are some of the interestingstuff people are attempting
right now?
A lot of drones.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Oh gosh, A lot of drones.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Is this mostly in the sky of New Jersey or Pittsburgh
?
Speaker 2 (23:20):
or New Jersey.
No, we talk about militarydefense drugs.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
Oh, okay, got it, we are not talking about consumer.
We talk about so remember oursystem is like a quarter million
.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
So in the rise of tension in Ukraine and
potentially in Taiwan,everybody's freaking out where,
in the event of war, the winnerwill be closely tied to
manufacturing capability.
So if you cannot manufacture inhigh volume enough, the only
(23:52):
reason why Ukraine is able tostill sustain itself and defend
itself is they have massiveprint farms doing 300, 400
drones per day.
But this is a one-way ticketdrone.
But this is just to give anidea of if that was just
hobbyists and prosumer.
It wasn't the military doing it, but now there are a lot of
(24:13):
research and testing fields.
So in the future I'm seeing aspike in university research for
drones and UAV and EV towers.
Even so, anything airborne,where you need something strong,
you need something big, youneed something high temperature.
We are the only choice.
(24:34):
A force can only give youalternative.
It won't be able to give youcontinuous carbon fiber.
Yes, everybody today can dosmaller part, produce chopped
fiber, but it wouldn't be aheated chamber.
That's an industrial gradeproduction.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
I know I've been hearing a lot of drums lately in
the 3D printing industry, butyou know, unfortunately this
podcast and also I primarilyfocus on health care and I mean,
the only thing I ever want tointeract with Drone is my Amazon
delivery in the future.
I really does not hope there'sany kind of hot war anywhere.
It's just human misery andtragedy.
(25:13):
But yes, I am aware of thisvery vibrant industry.
A little niche there with 3Dprinting industry.
A little niche there with 3Dprinting.
Now going to healthcare, youmentioned that there are some
applications potentially alsousing continuous fiber.
Do you want to tell us whatthat is?
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Some of the projects that I've been working on are
more related to prosthetics,meaning like amputees or
exoskeleton, where you needsomething strong and light
because they are battery driven,right Actuators and so forth.
So bionic amputees prostheticswill need that.
(25:53):
So I can see that.
But otherwise we're mainly foranything airborne.
But for prosthetics devices,drill guides you really need a
very if guides, you really needa very if only.
If you really need a verystrong tool, would you need
carbon fiber.
Otherwise chopped fiber mightbe good enough, but definitely
in the rise of where we're goingwith exoskeleton, where it's
(26:14):
human-sized, human body, itneeds to carry a lot of weight.
You do need the continuouscarbon fiber.
So I think minus theexoskeleton.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Speaking of tragedies , I mean Ukraine, I believe now
people are 3D printingprosthetics because now they
have more of patients to treatas a consequence of the war.
The other thing I was thinkingabout maybe assisted devices,
you know as an extension ofexoskeleton, like wheelchair.
Assistive devices, you know asan extension of exoskeleton,
(26:45):
like wheelchair, maybe some kindof hospital facility products,
which actually there's onecompany that came up in mind.
It's called PolyUnity.
It's a Canadian startup andthey have a really interesting
platform of printing anddesigning first and then print
all kinds of hospital-neededequipments that the hospital
(27:06):
either can't afford or unable toprocure during their normal
process, like, for example,during COVID.
So that's, it's veryinteresting to cross over and
see.
You know, what can cooltechnology do for interesting
applications.
So I mean, you have such a justfantastic road up to this point
(27:33):
and you probably, I would say,on average, how many trade shows
do you go to?
Can you count with two hands orlike that's more than one in a
dozen, or what?
Speaker 2 (27:43):
Well, I've been doing it for 22 years so I know a lot
of people and over time I'mactually it's kind of funny in
the rise of social mediainfluencer.
I'm actually a media partnerfor multiple conferences and
forums, like the one one inBerlin, am Forum, or AM Forum in
(28:05):
Milan, italy, or the Danish AMSummit or the Conclave, am Tech
in India.
So I'm trying to give back byhighlighting all these cool
events.
But just to give you an idea ofjust this spring, I went to TCT
Japan and Tokyo.
I went to TCT Asia and Shanghai.
I did Rabbit plus TCT inDetroit.
(28:26):
I did SolarWorks World, whichis now 3D Experience.
Yeah, I did AMOG the week beforeRabbit and we had to reschedule
our podcast because I had tojump on a plane, go to Beijing
for CIMT, which is theequivalent of the IMTS in
Chicago every two years.
(28:47):
So, because I'm fortunate to beable to be out and about and
really be in the front lineseeing what's happening, do I
actually have a lot ofinteresting conversation and see
it for myself, and that gave mea unique perspective.
So, just like when I bumpedinto the organizer of TCT and he
(29:10):
was like you're the only one Iknow who did all three TCT
events and they were verydifferent.
They were very differentflavors.
So if he was to ask me what wasthe difference, well, in Japan,
because the language barrier,because it's very expensive, it
was smaller, but it was veryreseller-driven because the
local reseller spoke Japaneseand they were local right.
(29:30):
So it wasn't any OEM staffing.
In China it was local, most 3Dprint companies either based
outside of Shanghai or inShenzhen.
So they showed up with massiveforce and Rabbit plus TTT
becoming much more diverse withco-location.
(29:50):
I think the future of Treasurewill be co-location of different
flavors, because people weredoing that anyway.
Right, all these generic shows.
They were very generic butpeople were kind of doing dental
, aerospace, automotive.
So having these co-locations soRabbit SME did it with Airdev,
with aerospace that was awesomebecause you get a different kind
(30:11):
of audience that you would nothave access to or you wouldn't
have the exposure to them hadthey not been co-located within
the same hall of Rabbit plus TCT.
So I think we're going to seemuch more be exposed to them had
they not been co-located withinthe same hall of rapper
plasticity.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
So I think we're going to see much more of that
and yeah, so these are just theshows that you went this year,
so we're not even talking about.
So what we were talking aboutwas just the show that when you
also went to amog as well, whichwas originally our plan to talk
about, I was like hey twan, canwe talk about your amog
experience?
And he's like, how about let totalk about?
I was like hey Twan, can wetalk about your AMOG experience?
And he's like, how about let'stalk about the world?
(30:44):
And now we have 20 events tocover.
So, which is incredible,because you know, it's almost
like you can pull yourself awayfrom this little planet and you
can see it from afar to have thebig picture of what is going on
in the world.
So, of all the experiences sofar this year, what are some of
(31:09):
the coolest technologies thatyou saw that you think could be
a game changer?
Speaker 2 (31:17):
I think I'll answer your question in a different way
.
Shanghai TCT Asia in Shanghai.
Okay, that was my first,definitely not my last.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
Yeah, I want to go with you, by the way, next time
you go, sure, sure I canintroduce you to a few people.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Yeah, or maybe many, but I was blown away and I'm
like, when I left after thatweek, I was like America, the
Western world.
You have no idea what's comingand this is not something that
is emerging now.
They've been working on thisfor the last decade.
So you know, you can learn fromhistory, but the only constant
(31:59):
is change.
But the only constant is change.
And in the event of AI, machinelearning, automation, robotics
and RoboDog walking around andhumanoids, so I would like to
grow the parallel to SonyWalkman 50 years ago, or the old
Kia, samsung cars, automotivecars from Korea we were laughing
(32:22):
at them.
Kia was like kicking it again,right, but we're not laughing at
the latest Kia cars orinnovation coming out of Japan.
But now, with the rise of China, one of my slides that I sent
you is called the Rise of theDragons and it's highlighting
just the tip of some of thenames, that is, spending more
marketing dollars than others.
But at TCT Asia, shanghai, Isaw a lot of companies I never
(32:46):
heard of and they had boothbigger than EOS and HP in
Detroit.
So they're like where did theseguys come from?
So you hear about the typicalbright laser technology, fasun,
hanbang and E plus, but howabout RV, metal or Eddie Green
or everybody?
else it's like I was shockedabout what is coming.
(33:08):
So no wonder that America ingeneral is worried about this
new superpower, the rise of thissuperpower.
It could be a contender, andthat leads us to a more
sensitive topic of tariff.
Right, that would mean.
But I'm fascinated and excitedand a little bit scared at the
(33:33):
same time, because I saw moreEVs in my life just being in a
instead of an Uber, a DD, justdriving on the highway and see
all five cars were EVs becauseyou can see on the license plate
which color they have.
And there were models of BYD.
Like a Tesla Model 3 is $23,000and there were models of BYD.
(33:55):
My software engineer colleaguegave me a ride from Hong Chao
Airport to Pudong Airport andhe's just a software engineer
colleague gave me a ride fromHong Chao Airport to Pudong
Airport and he's just a softwareengineer and his EV is like
with more iPads than even aTesla Model S.
And you're like, you're just anengineer, you're not even an
executive and you can affordthis.
And so the speed of innovation.
(34:18):
You have BYD UA that can driveand sail in the river how crazy
is that?
And do a B60 and park your carfor you and spinning all the
wheels with suspension that issuperior to any Western car.
So I'm like it's like I wentinto the future 10 years into
(34:40):
the future when I was inShanghai.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
Yeah, I mean, our fear of a rising competitor is
not new, right?
Like a couple of decades ago,people were afraid of Japan, the
rise of Japan, and you know,look where we are today.
I mean Japan is also on therise, again, I mean in parallel
to.
You know what's happening withChina today.
So these scenarios happen overthe years.
Again, I mean in parallel toyou know what's happening with
China today.
So there are these scenarioshappen over the years and so far
(35:04):
America, you know, inparticular, has fared very well.
But it takes leadership andstrategic strategies to actually
win if we want to be winning.
You know what's interesting isokay.
Of all the people I don't knowin Shanghai, I do know one
person and her name is KittyWong, I believe.
(35:26):
Yeah, she is, I think, directoror editor for 3D Valley, which
is the major media for 3Dprinting industry in China.
When I was visiting and sheinvited me to host a small
in-person event in Shanghai andguess what?
I saw my very first 3D printingmuseum and I've never seen
(35:53):
anywhere that has a museumdedicated to 3D printing
technology, from what it is toduplications and the various
outcome of metal to polymer.
It was a beautiful museum, veryhigh tech.
It was owned by a real estatemogul in Shanghai and I was just
shocked.
I was like you know, I thoughtwe're like way ahead of the game
, but we don't really haveanything like a 3D printing
(36:14):
museum.
And then I was like, wow, chinais really.
This is a 2000,.
It was 2018.
I was like China is really, youknow, coming up here.
And then Kitty's like no, no,no, we're really behind.
You guys are the best.
I feel like at the time she wasplaying the art of war with me
is, you know, not let your enemyknow where you actually are and
(36:39):
you know when you actuallycaught up and winning, you
surprised them.
So anyway, so that's, that'swhat, how I feel, but um,
remember there have been yearsof of practice, right?
Speaker 2 (36:55):
uh, you might not know this, but as soon as I
joined zcorp in late 03, 22years ago, the first thing I did
was putting two resales,because for Intel, I was
traveling to Beijing andShenzhen monthly, every month,
from Denmark.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
So of course.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
I felt comfortable with China in 99, when you even
have a Starbucks in a forbiddencity.
But I put Beijing Longyuan it'sa local OEM back then, 22 years
ago as one of my resellers, andShanghai Union Tech.
They both are still aroundtoday, but I was taking a risk
of will they clone my product orwill they not?
(37:32):
Or their new 3D printing.
We were different technologyglue and powder versus theirs.
Union Tech was SLA and the fearof clones.
We thought that the only way tocounter this is a generic answer
that I have and my opinion,which is proven today.
So even after 22 years, there'sstill not a commercial clone of
(37:56):
the Z-Corp technology.
It's owned by 3D Systems today.
But because if you keepinnovating the resin, the glue,
the binder, the sequencer, thebinder anybody can reverse the
hardware and maybe even thepowder, but the binder is the
secret sauce, the softwareeverybody can clone.
If you continue to innovatethat every six months, they will
never be able to catch up.
(38:16):
So even to this day, there'snot a commercial Z-Corp clone in
China.
So it can't be countered bykeep innovating, stop having
fear.
Just keep doing your own stuff,swimming your own lane.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
That's the only way to counter clones, absolutely, I
mean, you can copy only so much.
I think China has kind of nowout of the face of copying.
I'm not saying it's a goodthing to copy other people
without permission and violatingcopyright.
There are consequences of that,I think you know.
In part, trade war is areflection of the anger behind,
you know these copyrightviolations.
(38:53):
However, now China isinnovating itself as well.
You know, I don't know enoughwith the 3D printing patents,
but what I heard in the news inthe biopharma side, american
companies are now acquiringcopyrights and licenses from the
Chinese biopharma researcher.
So we are also benefiting fromtheir innovation now.
(39:16):
Now, with the tariff, that willbe questionable profitability
and even feasibility in thefuture.
So that's just a sidetrack.
So, of all the trade shows thatyou have attended so far, you
mentioned a couple of reallyinteresting I wouldn't say I
mean possible unicorn company inthe future and you mentioned
(39:37):
there are a couple of companiesand you want to tell us what
those are, for example, theRapidPrint, liquidprint that you
were talking about.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
Well, it's always cool to look at cooler
technology.
So, at Rapid, what the threecompanies caught my eye and
remember I've seen a lot overthe last 22 years.
But RapidLiquidPrinting isextrusion into a GUI, a vat of
GUI like an aquarium, and theydo mostly silicone, just like
(40:08):
Linkster in France.
But they had a very good demo,live demo.
That was the first time I sawthe OLP technology in life and
it was quite big.
So that was cool how theysolidified in the GUI.
So there's supposedly nopost-processing.
Another could have a medicalimpact is the manifest, which
(40:31):
formerly was known as Vitro 3D.
That was interesting becausethey have rotational volumetric
AM, but it's still in itsinfancy.
But what I liked about them istheir go-to-market strategy.
So instead of selling to a fewpeople, they actually want to
collaborate with justuniversities and go together
with a handful of keyuniversities around the world
(40:54):
and discover killer applicationstogether.
So that's a much more cautiousand more realistic approach.
The third company that Iactually posted this morning
actually met the Swedishinventor doing Formnex because I
encountered him during my threeand a half years at Desktop
Metal.
But the whole notion of whatyou've seen over the last 22
(41:17):
years or more is for extrusion,fff.
If you have a print head, whatcomes in is what you extrude and
you want more material, moremulticolor.
You have multiple heads.
You saw that with E3D, you sawthat with an ISO print, you saw
that with the Prusa XL.
But their approach is why areyou changing the whole freaking
head when it's really just thefilament and the nozzle?
(41:40):
So the Bontech technology inthere is you can have an array
with much smaller nozzle toolinterchanger and I think that is
really exciting.
And when you couple that withfive or six axes, with the S4
slicer or Duet PCBs, then I'mexcited about the future, what
(42:06):
it can be able to do.
So 3D printing is only as goodas what it can make.
But having these technicalchallenges being resolved
meaning like changing material,different color, different
material property, but alsocounter the majority of the
industry.
The Z string is so crappybecause it's just adhesion of
(42:27):
layer by layer, but if you gonon-planar then you can counter
that and improve that.
So those are the excitingdevelopment that I am tracking
and that's why I go.
Where I've gone is I look forwhere's the market moving, where
should it go?
And then often, if you look atmy nine companies, I usually
(42:47):
jump in and be part of thatstory.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
So I'm assuming that you posted this new technology
somewhere on your social media.
I posted five this morning Idid.
Speaker 2 (42:58):
Awesome.
I will link to that.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
And I have to say you know, of all those social media
influencers, you're the firstperson that I got to know and
like and you're probably theoriginal 3D printing influencer
in the world I want to mentionthat it just was a hobby.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
And you know what I do anybody can do, it's just
share cool things.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
No, I don't think so it takes a lot of work.
I mean, here's the thing I wantto ask you.
You have a lot of informationon your infographics.
So tuan has an array of greatinfographics, or quite
informative, but you have to getinformation somewhere right?
So how, first of all, find thesource of this information, and
(43:42):
how do you like organize and howlong does it take you to even
create these infographics youwant?
Speaker 2 (43:50):
my secret?
Huh, well, you don't have to gotoo deep.
No, it's actually so.
I think I was a teacher in myprevious life, so I have a
booklet.
So I have a booklet that Ilearned very early in my career
is, I think, better on paper,because when you put it down,
you can move things around.
(44:11):
Down, you can move thingsaround, and what happens in the
booklet is when you have thisthought.
The truth about creativity is itdoesn't come in one go, it's a
compilation of a lot ofdifferent thoughts and it takes
time to simmer and sometimes youhave to collaborate.
So a while back, like give youan example of, I did one with
(44:34):
the sensor-based AM S-PAM.
So in the past it was justbinder jetting and they needed a
center.
Right, it was either metal FDMor metal binder jetting.
They needed a center.
But then Tritone had adifferent approach, but they
also need a center.
So then we're like huh, thereare many ways you can do
additively a green part or brownpart that needs to be sintered
(44:59):
and skipping deep binding.
So as I learn wherever I've gone, and over time all these
ex-colleagues of mine, they alsojump around.
So I have a huge Rolodex and inthis case, I work with Ben Arno
collaborating from his tech,from Tritone.
What were they doingdifferently?
And then we mapped out all theplayers who were doing what
(45:20):
technology, which print engine,and what you still need to
center to encounter.
What kind of shrinkage are yousuffering?
So it's a combination.
So back to LinkedIn.
My secret sauce has been acombination of because I've seen
a lot, I'm really veryselective.
(45:41):
It has been really cool, and ifit's cool for me, it's probably
cool for a lot of people,because I've seen a lot already
over the last two years and ifit doesn't impress me, then it
probably won't impress a lot ofpeople.
So it's a combination of coolstuff, interesting stuff.
Be first to announce and yeah,I spend way too much time on
LinkedIn, but it's also a verypowerful sales tool because 8
(46:05):
billion people a billion are onLinkedIn and they are decision
makers and it's part of the newfrontier for sales.
It's like if you're not onLinkedIn, you're not in sales,
because everybody being eveneverybody knocking on door,
flying around, knocking on door,setting up meetings, checking
(46:27):
in, checking out, do apresentation, and that's it.
The new frontier has changed.
By doing what I do over theyears, my reach is about 112,000
engagement comments and 12million eyeballs going through
my content.
So either you want to spendtime on your personal branding
(46:51):
or not.
I'm sorry to tell people thisyou have a personal branding,
whether you spend a second on itor not.
I'm sorry to tell people thisyou have a personal branding
whether you spend a second on itor not.
That is when they Google youand whatever they find, that is
the impression of your personalbranding, so you might as well
take ownership of it and tailorit and design it to what do you
want to be known for?
My secret sauce is I want toeducate, I want to inspire, I
(47:15):
want to share my personaljourney.
What I went through, and theworst thing that happened, was
not because it wasn't that bad,because where I ended up being
was where I stepped up.
So, so a lot of people goingthrough tough times right now
and to them I can say I've beenthere as well.
But sometimes it's because,maybe because you didn't move
(47:37):
yourself to your next chapter.
But you need to have a notch.
Had you got yourself, youwouldn't have that notch.
So it's gonna be okay and themarket will.
It's very cyclical.
It will go down and it will goup.
But you have to be brave, youhave to be strong.
I did take a break recently.
I almost thought about notleaving the industry but staying
(48:00):
close enough.
When I look at the fourthindustrial revolution, what were
the components?
And I thought robotics, ai,with like Makina Labs.
I was chasing that.
So I was at least close enoughwith an additive that will
converge, because the futurewill be a conversion of multiple
technologies.
So it was more clear to me 10years ago in 15 that it was all
(48:26):
going to be about metals, whenless than 5% of all the
exhibition halls were aboutmetals or talk about metals.
I saw the writing on the wall.
It was all going to be aboutmetals and I made bold
predictions about that and Iwasn't that wrong.
And so it's hard at this timeto figure out what is the next
frontier, what will happen infive to ten years and I think it
(48:46):
has to be when you talk aboutwhat's happening with tariffs
and reshoring and manufacturingfactors of the future, that is,
fully automated sensors,autonomous, with human eyes,
that can be placed anywhere,just need to add power In Boston
, in New York, in Frankfurt,doesn't matter, I think, going
(49:09):
beyond the labor cost.
I think that's the nextfrontier.
So I've been decoding what is ina fracture of the future, doing
multiple tasks.
And what can it do Isolated?
You can see a lot of robots cando fragmentedly, like you can
do incremental sheet forming.
They can do cement, 3d printing, building shelves of a home,
just a wall.
(49:29):
Don't hype it up with buildinga house.
It's just building the walls,shelves, or you're doing
composite, you're doingfurniture, but but that can be
resolved in one system if youjust have a tool changer,
learning from cnt.
If you have a tool change, youhave a machine that can do all
the materials that you can thinkof.
You can, freaking, even dobinder jetting spring if you
wanted to do binder jetting aswell.
(49:50):
So I'm trying to to decode whatone of my slides that I sent
you was my first take on whatcould be the microfactory of the
future that could betransported with just two
40-foot containers and bedeployed.
Speaker 1 (50:05):
Right, the microfactory concept is
extraordinary and I feel likethat is a topic for our next
podcast.
But I want to go just slightlywalk back a little bit about
building a personal brand thatyou were talking, because I
certainly think you did afantastic job doing that for
yourself and you're one of themost heard and also credible
(50:29):
voice in the industry.
But what?
But you obviously are anextrovert um.
It's it's very obvious, um,that you love being with people
and you get energized.
But what if, like someone who'svery introverted which I would
say in this industry there areplenty, you know, I think,
myself included believe or notthat?
Um?
(50:49):
So what are some advice thatyou would have for people who
aren't really comfortable withpeople meeting, people, hustling
, but also want to build a brand?
What would you say?
Speaker 2 (51:04):
It's really going back to one thing Be brave.
Okay, because that's how it allstarted.
And once you start being braveand take risk and you get
success, then you get moreself-confidence and then you
take bigger risk.
So I had a beautiful life.
(51:27):
I was an engineer, I gaveeverything to my siblings,
packed three bags and moved toAmerica in 2002, starting from
scratch On a L1B, and I might bedeported if I don't get a green
card.
So I think for any immigrantand luckily America has a lot of
(51:48):
immigrants you've got to havecourage, you've got to be brave.
You've got to have courage,you've got to be brave.
And that's what fascinates meabout entrepreneurship is you've
got to be brave, because in thebeginning I was actually not so
much an extrovert, but later on, when I start having
conversation with people, Ilearn and I realized that just
(52:11):
because you finish schooldoesn't mean you're done
learning for the rest of yourlife, and I start appreciating
learning from other people.
You can do that by readingbiography from other leaders
around the world and be inspiredby dead people usually, and you
can talk to them or have aconversation.
For now, ai will change that inthe future.
(52:31):
For now, ai will change that inthe future.
But having conversation willhelp you to gain more knowledge,
because the second industrialrevolution didn't happen by one
person.
It was actually in the Britishclubhouses tea clubs where the
right minds came together and wehad the great minds combined.
(52:53):
That's how you came up with thesteam engine.
So I was fascinated by that, bywhat if I connect with, if I
don't connect with people, Iwill never learn the bigger
picture of what could come.
So by connecting with people,but then you can do all that
from your living room or fromyour bedroom.
But there comes a time whereyou need to share.
(53:14):
Well, it was actually a rememberthe last hype.
The media were not educating 3Dprinting and there were a lot
of mistakes and confusion aboutwhat 3D printing was.
And I'm like I'm an insider.
Somebody should speak up,somebody should re-educate them
or correct the messaging.
(53:34):
So it started out of to try tocontain the bollocks that was
coming out from the media, andthat's how I started to train
people or share what I learned.
So when I joined Arcam after 10years in polymer, I couldn't
even find.
I Googled everywhere.
I couldn't even find a whitepaper, a tutorial, a webinar or
(53:57):
covers about 3D printing.
I want to know who are theplayers, how many players in
metals, what do they do?
How do they differ?
What verticals?
How much are the market share?
There was no data and I'm asales director for East Coast
and I need to learn this.
Otherwise I'll position myselfand I need marketing leads,
otherwise I can't sell.
So it was out of necessity.
(54:19):
But, going back to being brave,just share, just do it.
Really, I love the Nike songjust do it, but just sharing
what I knew my journey as Ijoined RK in June 14,.
I shared what I learned and alot of people benefit from that
because metal was on the rise.
Right.
Like I shared an analysis, myslide deck was presented at AMOG
(54:44):
, so actually anybody who wentto Jacksonville AMOG in 2015
would have a peek in what'shappening in 3D printing,
because that was my prediction10 years ago and it talks about
that in that.
Did you know?
One of my slides I repostedquite a lot is it took 20 years
for the first 1,000 industrialmetal machine to be sold and
(55:07):
then in 15,.
Then it only took 13 and 14,two years to sell the next
10,000.
And I predicted it would be1,000 in 2015.
I was wrong, it was only 950.
But then it just keeps ongrowing.
So by sharing what I knew orwhat I learned or what I
observed or what I think willhappen, luckily, so far my
(55:28):
experience has been it's been avery collaborative community of
3D printing professionals onLinkedIn and a lot of these are
dinosaurs and they were sharingtheir thoughts and ideas and
challenges and comments.
So together we were learningcollectively and that's why some
of the best high schools inAmerica is collective learning
(55:49):
the Harkness program at, forinstance, phillips Exeter
Academy.
Actually they were the founderinventor of that technology.
You learn collectively.
They don't have students and ateacher, one-way communication.
They only have one table, it'salways oval and the teacher is
just a facilitator, moderator,but they learn collectively and
I think doing that, taking thatonto the Internet on LinkedIn
(56:12):
and sharing what I have I have arough draft that onto the
internet on LinkedIn and sharingwhat I have.
I have a rough draft but becauseof the feedback then my next
slide gets even better.
So from time to time the slidesthat takes.
So I have like 20 differentslides working in my notebook.
That is simmering and it takestime.
And when it's ready, when is itgood enough to be published and
then get feedback.
(56:32):
But yeah, some of theinfographic, like metals, all
the market share, the particlesize, who's making the atomizer
and are they sustainable, arethey not, and what print engine
is using what particle size, andall that.
It took me months to have it,but I gave everything for free
and I think that helps to buildgoodwill, because another secret
(56:59):
is you get more by giving, notby taking absolutely.
Speaker 1 (57:03):
um, I mean, today you gave us an hour.
That's extremely valuable tothe audience.
Um, and what you just said,remind me of two books I've read
.
One is calledset, whichbasically means don't just focus
on one thing.
Basically it's just sayingdon't focus just your tunnel
vision, don't have tunnel vision, but open yourself to the world
, to opportunities, to differentconcepts, ideas, perspectives.
(57:27):
Don't jump into a conclusionquickly, just be open to
opportunities, into conclusionquickly, just be open to
opportunities.
And the other book is give andtake, which you just said, and
actually they tracked, you know,people who give or take or
versus neutral, like, whichmeans I give and also take, but
has to be equal, that kind ofthing.
(57:47):
And they track the success overthe careers of these people and
actually, actually, you know,is the giver actually come out
ahead at the end?
So I think you're a giver forsure in our industry Knowledge,
time, energy, advice.
So I'm incredibly appreciativeof what you're doing for the
(58:09):
industry and I certainly hope toinvite you back for more
in-depth conversation about aparticular elements that you
mentioned, because we certainlycovered a variety of things
today, but we didn't have thetime to really cover the depth,
which requires me to do myhomework too.
So thank you so much, tuan, fortoday the conversation, and
(58:31):
hope to see you again soon.
Speaker 2 (58:33):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (58:34):
The content of this podcast is for informational and
educational purposes only anddoes not constitute medical,
legal or financial advice.
The views and opinionsexpressed by the host and guests
are their own and do notnecessarily reflect those of
their employers, affiliates orany associated organizations.
Welcome to the latest episode, number 84.
Today we dive into theextraordinary journey of Tuan
Chuan-Phan, a true veteran andglobal thought leader in the
world of 3D printing, with over22 years of experience spanning
pioneering companies like Zcorp3D Systems and Desktop Metal,
(00:22):
tuan shared not only hispersonal story, from being a
Vietnamese refugee to US techexecutive, but also his unique
perspective on the past, presentand bold future of additive
manufacturing.
Enjoy, hey Tuan.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
You're going to be calling an AI companion and the
host Shu-Bang.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Yeah, well, make sure that we capture you this time
and again.
I really appreciate you joiningthe pod this morning.
It's always a pleasure to talkto you, even twice for the same
content.
So, just for fun, to tellpeople what happened last week
is uh, we did a full an hour anda half recording session and
then we realized that we did notrecord.
(01:10):
So that is um, it was a reallygood conversation.
It was a it was a goodconversation well, let's, let's
rewind and uh talk, talk aboutuh.
You know, I think every time,every time I talk to you, things
are always different, but Ithink for people who don't know
you, it's always good to startfrom the beginning, and I do
(01:32):
anticipate multiple podcastswith you in the future to talk
about subjects with a moredeeper you know, deeper dive in
these various subjects.
But I think it's always good tohave a foundation, to know who
you are, where you come from andwhy you have certain
perspectives that you do so.
I know you have a reallyfascinating early career, early
(01:54):
life story, so I love to just tohear you to share with us what
that story is so I think what'sdriving is because they have a
saying that when you come fromnothing, anything is possible,
right?
Speaker 2 (02:14):
So a lot of people don't know this, but at the age
of five, at the fall of Saigonin 79, we left by boat.
So I'm actually a Vietnameseboat refugee and I lived for six
months in a Malaysian refugeecamp in 1979.
And we were supposed to, my twoyounger brother and my parents.
(02:35):
We were supposed to go toeither the US or Australia.
Those were the popular choices,but there was a long waiting
period and it was tough being 40, 000 on an island that only was
supposed to have 4 000 refugees.
So we couldn't continue tosustain and the danes were like
(02:55):
come to denmark.
It's like, where's denmark?
It's like it turns out inhindsight after 20, 23 years
that for a refugee, denmark isawesome.
You live amongst the Vikings,everything is free Education,
dental, you pay high tax, buteverything is free.
And so that was the beginningof my adult growing to become an
(03:21):
adult.
So I'm very Danish.
I don't look it.
So I was born in Asia, but Iwas raised and lived in Europe
for 23 years.
I still always had this thingabout the American dream that I
thought that my destiny, I hadto go to the US.
I left my parents behind andbrothers I didn't know how.
Who doesn't want to go toAmerica.
(03:42):
The company that I worked forin 1999 was doing 10 gigabit
serializer de-serializer, sothese were microchips at $5,000.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
It's a semiconductor industry.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Back then right, I just want to clarify.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
You're not always in 3D printing so before 3D
printing I was in semiconductorand we got acquired.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
I was in print number 81 and four months in I was
supposed to run Asia because Idid that for Intel for four
years and we got acquired byIntel for 1.25 billion cash, and
this is before the bubble ofthe summer of 2000.
This is March, so it couldn'thave been a better timing and
that was my ticket.
My mentor grew in the ranks andeventually became the GM of
(04:30):
Intel Denmark and he said dothis, this, this I will prove,
and off you go.
And that's how.
But I was actually supposed togo to Silicon Valley, but
because of a girl that I met,and but because of a girl that I
met who's now my wife, I endedup in Boston and and I would
never gone to Boston with a fourseason, just like in Europe,
(05:05):
no-transcript but because of her.
At a BU she studied law, she's aboring attorney, a tax attorney
, and it turns out at one of thereunion parties, a friend of
the friend happens to be thefinancial controller at Z
Corporation and I had lunch withhim in 2003.
(05:27):
I saw the ball bearing glue andsuper glue and powder starch
back then during Indiana Jonesexcavating, and I saw this ball
bearing and I fell in love withthis technology and I was like,
wow, in five years everybodywill be using it.
So that's how I got into 3Dprinting.
But I did a detour for 23 yearsin Copenhagen, denmark, awesome
(05:49):
country, just a little bit toosmall for me.
They have this, uh, this hiddenum law the gender law, meaning
that it's very socialistic.
Don't think you're better thanyour neighbor.
Don't try to stand out anddon't praise yourself.
Be like everybody, be like yourneighbor.
And I'm like I have one life.
I'm like I'm going to make themost out of this.
(06:10):
I was out of there, so mysalary doubled and I paid less
in tax.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
That was a good deal.
It sounds like we have to thankyour wife to give you to our
industry here and also update.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
I'm going to go visit Copenhagen soon.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
I've never seen it before, so I'm very excited
about it.
So now, zcorp was the startingpoint of your extraordinary
career and ever since I saw thisyou know you just sent me the
deck and I saw that you havegone through quite a few merger
(06:52):
acquisitions and quite a fewvery famous names in industry.
You know I don't really wantyou to go through every single
one of them because it will benot a podcast format, but what
are some of the highlights inyour career that you think you
know really were instrumentalfor you to open up your eyes, to
see something different orreally capture, I guess, the
essence of the industry and alsoyou see the potential of
(07:16):
scaling and something big, justsomething that's really
highlights.
Of these multiple milestones,where do you feel like it was
life-changing?
Speaker 2 (07:26):
I guess that's what I'm trying to find, I think, to
make it relevant to the currentconsolidation.
So about a decade ago, in 2013,I would say you know, history
tends to repeat itself.
So if you've been doing so,sometimes we don't really learn
from the past, but we reallyshould because there's a pattern
(07:48):
.
And that's one of my favoritebooks is who Moved my Cheese,
because if you detect and payattention to the detail and
small changes, you can almostpredict the trajectory of the
industry or where it's going.
So I've always been driven bytech.
So the first consolidation,major consolidation we talk
(08:09):
about a much simpler world, veryfew manufacturers, but what
happened was I left ZCorp in2010,.
Joined 3D System at the rise ofthe consumer products crying
BFB out of UK was the number onethree system back then, in
2013,.
But number four was equalbecause they needed a channel.
(08:31):
That was really the root cause.
Even applies to today.
When you talk about NASDAQ orNYSE, it's all about revenue.
Well, who's actually generatingthe revenue?
You need the frontline, therevenue generators, and you need
the best in class, becauseyou're only as good as your
revenue generators, right?
So number one, but number four.
That was the biggerconsolidation early of that year
(08:55):
, 2013.
And later in that year this iswhen I jumped over to object
because I like themulti-material, multi-material
properties and multiple colorsthat four months into an object,
instead of going public with Ithink the number was 75 million
they canceled that and decidedto merge with Stratasys, which
(09:18):
was, in hindsight, is really areverse acquisition, because the
biggest shareholder of objectwas HLM Cheklam and he owned a
huge chunk of the combinedentity as well.
So, no surprise, within 90 days, three quarters of all the
management were Israeli, so itwas really an interesting
takeover and me being inBellarica for Object Geometry
(09:41):
America, I was on the winningteam.
Right, we were buying stratuses, so you saw that big
consolidation in 2013.
Ten years later, in 2023, youstart to talk here about the
last few years, about attemptsto consolidate, but it was
really expensive.
So, in hindsight, thank God,nothing happened because 2024
(10:02):
was even cheaper and 2025 iseven cheaper.
And this is actually where weactually have Nano Dimension who
, at the rise of being a nobody,played the stock market and
raised funding and ended up with$1.3 billion in cash and you
can do a lot with that kind ofwatchers and no matter what
(10:22):
death of metal, they wereacquiring other big company like
envision tech, and next one,nano dimension, ended up buying
everything for cheaper, and alsonano also mod forge.
So the challenge now is um,it's always the having the right
people on the bus to actuallydo the work, to do the execution
.
So the biggest challenge isthey to actually do the work, to
(10:44):
do the execution.
So the biggest challenge isthey can go two ways.
It could be spectacular greatintegration cut the fat, cut the
overhead, simplify everything,keep it simple, focus on our
revenue.
It could be a great story andgreat for the industry, and
right now, nanodimension istrying to be the third largest
player, but it could be thebiggest one in the entire space.
(11:05):
If they play that card right.
They only have 845 million left.
But if they don't do it, rightand they don't have people who
actually know this industry andtheir leadership, it might go in
a different direction.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
I mean merger and acquisition very difficult to do
.
Well, to be honest with you Inhistory, I would say more than
80% I think I pulled thosenumbers somewhere, but it's
definitely more than 80% of themerger and acquisitions will not
go as defined as successful and, like you said, there are many
(11:40):
challenging parts of perfectintegration.
Asset allocation, I mean, justbecause you have money doesn't
mean it's going to be well usedto have a high return on
investment or equity or asset.
So it's you know, in thehistory of all these merger and
acquisitions in your mind, juston top of your head, what is
(12:03):
actually considered a goodacquisition so far.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
I would say the initial one.
I was kind of like thearchitect behind that right.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Because I left.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Zcorp and joined 3D System 2010.
They really needed to build achannel to go global and back
then Stratasys had the bestchannel and still has the best
channel, but mainly because theyare SOLIDWORKS vService and so
they had to build their ownsecondary and so them buying.
(12:37):
Zcorp gave them that channel toboost all the new product and
innovation acquisition that theyhave made.
So I think that went prettywell.
But it went well because theydid a deep cut from the very
beginning.
If you're going to make thingsright from the beginning, make a
hard decision in the beginning.
Don't do a second wave, becauseit just kills morale.
(12:58):
Do a big, huge cut in thebeginning and just focusing on
being honest with yourself.
Stop ego and revenue.
Look at what is actually makingmoney, but not just today, but
what will make money in fiveyears and what else is coming,
because all companies have anissue with blind spots.
They don't know what's coming,and there are companies and
(13:20):
products coming out that willchallenge Markforged even more
as early as this summer.
Are they aware of that?
I don't know.
So if they do a major cut andhave the right people to lead,
you know most companies havefull control.
It's their salespeople theydirect.
(13:41):
But it's a very differentfranchise model when you have
value-added reseller, becausethey're like mercenaries, they
don't have to sell your product.
But if there's a long historyand there's trust, is it really
a channel company?
And to answer that question,it's really the people you have.
Do they have the DNA of channel?
(14:04):
Do they understand those?
Because a true channel manageris actually a business
consultant.
He's not just a product salestrainer, because it's really
about collaborating beyond thesales and marketing and branding
and technical support to beyour virtual sales force as an
OEM, and that takes a differentmindset.
(14:25):
It's very rare that in thisindustry that you have people
who can do both.
Because just because you're thegreatest soccer player, like
Tom Brady, he's a greatquarterback, that doesn't
qualify, necessarily mean he'llbe an amazing coach and picking
players Not necessarily.
It's a different skill set.
(14:45):
It is a different mindset and Ithink you need to have an
understanding of both, becausein this world with so many OEMs,
often companies will have ahybrid model where you have
direct and even multiple layerof referral sales agent, virtual
direct resell, two-tierdistributor.
(15:06):
There it's getting more complex.
The world was similar 20 yearsago.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
So I'm not very familiar with sales and
marketing.
Can you just explain to us whata typical channel manager does
on a daily basis?
Speaker 2 (15:21):
I think the best part of being a channel manager is
you get to pick, you get torecruit, you get to.
So most company 3D printingstartup, they had the technology
, they make a product.
How do you go to market?
And the fast track is gettingpeople who actually sells the 3D
CAD software.
So if you have the content 3Dprinting is an output device
(15:43):
then they can.
So a sales manager does fivethings they profile, they go to
market strategy, they go out andrecruit all these resellers.
They educate and train thembeyond sales and marketing and
branding and servicing andapplication for recurring
revenue and technical supportfor service.
(16:03):
So it's a multi-facet.
So the channel manager hasevolved to be much more within
3D printing because it'shigh-tech sales.
It's not even cutting it, it'sbleeding it.
It's like people don't evenknow what a 3D printer is.
Yes, so you educate them, youmanage them and then you
evaluate recurrently whether youneed to refresh, because the
(16:25):
truth is they're likemercenaries and once you
depleted them if they don'tinvolve you kind of depleted
their comfort zone, theirinstall base, their 50 closest
friends.
But if they don't know how toextend their reach, then you
might need to.
That's why you saw in therecent years that the best way,
the only way for Marfo to grow,was to get more resellers, to
(16:47):
get revenue from demo units andthen, just like, they have like
seven resellers in Japan, whichis crazy because the business
market is not big enough.
So it's no surprise that yousaw a decline when they became
more selfish than actually beinga partner to their reseller
partners.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
I was going to ask you to name who in the industry
do you think are the bestchannel managers, but I think I
have one sitting right in frontof me and now you're the CEO of
Aniso Print.
President, how do you say itright?
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Aniso Print.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Aniso Print President .
How do you say it right Anisoprint An isoprint President.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Okay, so in most 3D printing you have a part like
SLA or carbon.
You have a part, so it'susually XYZ strong, that's
isotropic.
But for carbon fiber it'sreally not new.
(17:48):
Like for years, for years, fordecades, for all the planes that
you've been on, the fuselagewas done with carbon fiber but
it's very thick tape but thatwas only strong, uh, anisotropic
.
Anisotropic mean only in thedirection of the fiber is strong
, not in the Z.
So that's why anisotropicbecame anisotropic.
(18:09):
3d printing anisoprint.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
I see so it's stronger.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
In mechanical property it's only in the
direction, not in X, Y, Z.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Okay, got it.
Yeah, so it's like anydirection, basically right Only
direction of the fiber.
But is the fiber only onedirection or is it a randomized
direction?
It's one direction.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
So for here, in this case, you have layer by layer,
right, but you have continuouscarbon fiber around the hole.
I see, and you can do lattice,I see you apply it.
But if you pull the carbonfiber away from each other
vertically it will be verystrong.
But if you put a forceperpendicular, it will break
(18:50):
because it wasn't designed fromthat force.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
So, therefore, you can engineering it in such a way
to decide on what side of thestrength should be and what
direction it should be.
You can have full control ofthe end product.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
But then XYZ in the advent of what's coming.
It's usually newer technology,newer innovation.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
So we talk about planar.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
XY just moving the build bed.
But now we talk about I post alot about non-planar, really
about five axes and six axes.
That means now you're no longerconfined, the you're no longer
confined, the direction is nolonger confined just to X, y
every day at a time.
But now you can manipulate.
You can do a six axis roboticprinting that will go to the
(19:35):
next level and I have a changefrom that because I did a Revo
where we did a bike frame withcontinuous carbon fiber with a
six axis ABB.
So me going to a Revo with agantry-based desktop system is
kind of like an easier solutionthan a big robot that I have.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Yeah, I mean this sounds like exponential growth
future, because when we comefrom 2D space to 3D space, that
was explosion of us capable ofmaking new things, think
differently, and now we're goinginto even more directions.
Now we have more parameters toplay with.
What do you see as some of themajor applications of this kind
(20:15):
of technology For our technology, yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
So I think what is unique for us is, unlike anybody
else on the planet, forcontinuous carbon fiber is
anything that's airborne,because in essence it's kind of
like.
Kind of like your body wouldn'twork if you didn't have
reinforcement the bones insideyour body or the metal rebar in
(20:43):
any building on the planet.
So you need that reinforcement.
So it is common sense thatanything that is airborne,
especially if it's batterydriven.
What does that require?
It has to be strong but light,but light.
At certain things happening inEurope right now you can see the
(21:04):
rise and growth of drones, uavsand satellites and space and
aerospace Anything airborne.
It needs to be strong andlighter and especially with
regulated industry likeaerospace or space or outer
space with FAA, you also needhigh temperature in case of fire
(21:26):
that is somewhat resistant,flame retardant.
So this is where you might needmore than a stratus affordis.
You might want Ultem, which isalready quantified and
pre-approved, but we're the onlycompany in the world that on
top of that, we can even addcontinuous carbon fiber inside.
So this part for hightemperature for aerospace,
(21:49):
drones, ulv nobody else in theworld than an isoplane can do
high temperature with carbonfiber reinforcement.
So generally this is one of thereasons why I joined this
company, because there are a lotof the same or incremental
improvement.
But unless you are unique, youdon't deserve to live or get
(22:10):
funding.
And the reason why they're ableto do this is because we have
patented co-extrusion and thatmeans we can blend two filaments
into the same extruder head.
So here we have two filamentsgoing to one extruder head.
One is always continuous carbonfiber and one is a plastic.
(22:31):
It's an open platform.
You can change everything, it'soffline and the plastic you can
buy it locally from Polymakeror another brand, and so it's
awesome for research andcommercial research so yeah, so
twan is showing some slideswhich we will share later, um,
and also the video as well inthe future.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Um, so yeah, so it sounds like this is almost like
open source material selection.
Um, and of all the researchprojects that are ongoing, if
you can disclose, because I knowsome of them are preparatory
what are some of the interestingstuff people are attempting
right now?
A lot of drones.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Oh gosh, A lot of drones.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Is this mostly in the sky of New Jersey or Pittsburgh
?
Speaker 2 (23:20):
or New Jersey.
No, we talk about militarydefense drugs.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
Oh, okay, got it, we are not talking about consumer.
We talk about so remember oursystem is like a quarter million
.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
So in the rise of tension in Ukraine and
potentially in Taiwan,everybody's freaking out where,
in the event of war, the winnerwill be closely tied to
manufacturing capability.
So if you cannot manufacture inhigh volume enough, the only
(23:52):
reason why Ukraine is able tostill sustain itself and defend
itself is they have massiveprint farms doing 300, 400
drones per day.
But this is a one-way ticketdrone.
But this is just to give anidea of if that was just
hobbyists and prosumer.
It wasn't the military doing it, but now there are a lot of
(24:13):
research and testing fields.
So in the future I'm seeing aspike in university research for
drones and UAV and EV towers.
Even so, anything airborne,where you need something strong,
you need something big, youneed something high temperature.
We are the only choice.
(24:34):
A force can only give youalternative.
It won't be able to give youcontinuous carbon fiber.
Yes, everybody today can dosmaller part, produce chopped
fiber, but it wouldn't be aheated chamber.
That's an industrial gradeproduction.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
I know I've been hearing a lot of drums lately in
the 3D printing industry, butyou know, unfortunately this
podcast and also I primarilyfocus on health care and I mean,
the only thing I ever want tointeract with Drone is my Amazon
delivery in the future.
I really does not hope there'sany kind of hot war anywhere.
It's just human misery andtragedy.
(25:13):
But yes, I am aware of thisvery vibrant industry.
A little niche there with 3Dprinting industry.
A little niche there with 3Dprinting.
Now going to healthcare, youmentioned that there are some
applications potentially alsousing continuous fiber.
Do you want to tell us whatthat is?
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Some of the projects that I've been working on are
more related to prosthetics,meaning like amputees or
exoskeleton, where you needsomething strong and light
because they are battery driven,right Actuators and so forth.
So bionic amputees prostheticswill need that.
(25:53):
So I can see that.
But otherwise we're mainly foranything airborne.
But for prosthetics devices,drill guides you really need a
very if guides, you really needa very if only.
If you really need a verystrong tool, would you need
carbon fiber.
Otherwise chopped fiber mightbe good enough, but definitely
in the rise of where we're goingwith exoskeleton, where it's
(26:14):
human-sized, human body, itneeds to carry a lot of weight.
You do need the continuouscarbon fiber.
So I think minus theexoskeleton.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Speaking of tragedies , I mean Ukraine, I believe now
people are 3D printingprosthetics because now they
have more of patients to treatas a consequence of the war.
The other thing I was thinkingabout maybe assisted devices,
you know as an extension ofexoskeleton, like wheelchair.
Assistive devices, you know asan extension of exoskeleton,
(26:45):
like wheelchair, maybe some kindof hospital facility products,
which actually there's onecompany that came up in mind.
It's called PolyUnity.
It's a Canadian startup andthey have a really interesting
platform of printing anddesigning first and then print
all kinds of hospital-neededequipments that the hospital
(27:06):
either can't afford or unable toprocure during their normal
process, like, for example,during COVID.
So that's, it's veryinteresting to cross over and
see.
You know, what can cooltechnology do for interesting
applications.
So I mean, you have such a justfantastic road up to this point
(27:33):
and you probably, I would say,on average, how many trade shows
do you go to?
Can you count with two hands orlike that's more than one in a
dozen, or what?
Speaker 2 (27:43):
Well, I've been doing it for 22 years so I know a lot
of people and over time I'mactually it's kind of funny in
the rise of social mediainfluencer.
I'm actually a media partnerfor multiple conferences and
forums, like the one one inBerlin, am Forum, or AM Forum in
(28:05):
Milan, italy, or the Danish AMSummit or the Conclave, am Tech
in India.
So I'm trying to give back byhighlighting all these cool
events.
But just to give you an idea ofjust this spring, I went to TCT
Japan and Tokyo.
I went to TCT Asia and Shanghai.
I did Rabbit plus TCT inDetroit.
(28:26):
I did SolarWorks World, whichis now 3D Experience.
Yeah, I did AMOG the week beforeRabbit and we had to reschedule
our podcast because I had tojump on a plane, go to Beijing
for CIMT, which is theequivalent of the IMTS in
Chicago every two years.
(28:47):
So, because I'm fortunate to beable to be out and about and
really be in the front lineseeing what's happening, do I
actually have a lot ofinteresting conversation and see
it for myself, and that gave mea unique perspective.
So, just like when I bumpedinto the organizer of TCT and he
(29:10):
was like you're the only one Iknow who did all three TCT
events and they were verydifferent.
They were very differentflavors.
So if he was to ask me what wasthe difference, well, in Japan,
because the language barrier,because it's very expensive, it
was smaller, but it was veryreseller-driven because the
local reseller spoke Japaneseand they were local right.
(29:30):
So it wasn't any OEM staffing.
In China it was local, most 3Dprint companies either based
outside of Shanghai or inShenzhen.
So they showed up with massiveforce and Rabbit plus TTT
becoming much more diverse withco-location.
(29:50):
I think the future of Treasurewill be co-location of different
flavors, because people weredoing that anyway.
Right, all these generic shows.
They were very generic butpeople were kind of doing dental
, aerospace, automotive.
So having these co-locations soRabbit SME did it with Airdev,
with aerospace that was awesomebecause you get a different kind
(30:11):
of audience that you would nothave access to or you wouldn't
have the exposure to them hadthey not been co-located within
the same hall of Rabbit plus TCT.
So I think we're going to seemuch more be exposed to them had
they not been co-located withinthe same hall of rapper
plasticity.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
So I think we're going to see much more of that
and yeah, so these are just theshows that you went this year,
so we're not even talking about.
So what we were talking aboutwas just the show that when you
also went to amog as well, whichwas originally our plan to talk
about, I was like hey twan, canwe talk about your amog
experience?
And he's like, how about let totalk about?
I was like hey Twan, can wetalk about your AMOG experience?
And he's like, how about let'stalk about the world?
(30:44):
And now we have 20 events tocover.
So, which is incredible,because you know, it's almost
like you can pull yourself awayfrom this little planet and you
can see it from afar to have thebig picture of what is going on
in the world.
So, of all the experiences sofar this year, what are some of
(31:09):
the coolest technologies thatyou saw that you think could be
a game changer?
Speaker 2 (31:17):
I think I'll answer your question in a different way
.
Shanghai TCT Asia in Shanghai.
Okay, that was my first,definitely not my last.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
Yeah, I want to go with you, by the way, next time
you go, sure, sure I canintroduce you to a few people.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Yeah, or maybe many, but I was blown away and I'm
like, when I left after thatweek, I was like America, the
Western world.
You have no idea what's comingand this is not something that
is emerging now.
They've been working on thisfor the last decade.
So you know, you can learn fromhistory, but the only constant
(31:59):
is change.
But the only constant is change.
And in the event of AI, machinelearning, automation, robotics
and RoboDog walking around andhumanoids, so I would like to
grow the parallel to SonyWalkman 50 years ago, or the old
Kia, samsung cars, automotivecars from Korea we were laughing
(32:22):
at them.
Kia was like kicking it again,right, but we're not laughing at
the latest Kia cars orinnovation coming out of Japan.
But now, with the rise of China, one of my slides that I sent
you is called the Rise of theDragons and it's highlighting
just the tip of some of thenames, that is, spending more
marketing dollars than others.
But at TCT Asia, shanghai, Isaw a lot of companies I never
(32:46):
heard of and they had boothbigger than EOS and HP in
Detroit.
So they're like where did theseguys come from?
So you hear about the typicalbright laser technology, fasun,
hanbang and E plus, but howabout RV, metal or Eddie Green
or everybody?
else it's like I was shockedabout what is coming.
(33:08):
So no wonder that America ingeneral is worried about this
new superpower, the rise of thissuperpower.
It could be a contender, andthat leads us to a more
sensitive topic of tariff.
Right, that would mean.
But I'm fascinated and excitedand a little bit scared at the
(33:33):
same time, because I saw moreEVs in my life just being in a
instead of an Uber, a DD, justdriving on the highway and see
all five cars were EVs becauseyou can see on the license plate
which color they have.
And there were models of BYD.
Like a Tesla Model 3 is $23,000and there were models of BYD.
(33:55):
My software engineer colleaguegave me a ride from Hong Chao
Airport to Pudong Airport andhe's just a software engineer
colleague gave me a ride fromHong Chao Airport to Pudong
Airport and he's just a softwareengineer and his EV is like
with more iPads than even aTesla Model S.
And you're like, you're just anengineer, you're not even an
executive and you can affordthis.
And so the speed of innovation.
(34:18):
You have BYD UA that can driveand sail in the river how crazy
is that?
And do a B60 and park your carfor you and spinning all the
wheels with suspension that issuperior to any Western car.
So I'm like it's like I wentinto the future 10 years into
(34:40):
the future when I was inShanghai.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
Yeah, I mean, our fear of a rising competitor is
not new, right?
Like a couple of decades ago,people were afraid of Japan, the
rise of Japan, and you know,look where we are today.
I mean Japan is also on therise, again, I mean in parallel
to.
You know what's happening withChina today.
So these scenarios happen overthe years.
Again, I mean in parallel toyou know what's happening with
China today.
So there are these scenarioshappen over the years and so far
(35:04):
America, you know, inparticular, has fared very well.
But it takes leadership andstrategic strategies to actually
win if we want to be winning.
You know what's interesting isokay.
Of all the people I don't knowin Shanghai, I do know one
person and her name is KittyWong, I believe.
(35:26):
Yeah, she is, I think, directoror editor for 3D Valley, which
is the major media for 3Dprinting industry in China.
When I was visiting and sheinvited me to host a small
in-person event in Shanghai andguess what?
I saw my very first 3D printingmuseum and I've never seen
(35:53):
anywhere that has a museumdedicated to 3D printing
technology, from what it is toduplications and the various
outcome of metal to polymer.
It was a beautiful museum, veryhigh tech.
It was owned by a real estatemogul in Shanghai and I was just
shocked.
I was like you know, I thoughtwe're like way ahead of the game
, but we don't really haveanything like a 3D printing
(36:14):
museum.
And then I was like, wow, chinais really.
This is a 2000,.
It was 2018.
I was like China is really, youknow, coming up here.
And then Kitty's like no, no,no, we're really behind.
You guys are the best.
I feel like at the time she wasplaying the art of war with me
is, you know, not let your enemyknow where you actually are and
(36:39):
you know when you actuallycaught up and winning, you
surprised them.
So anyway, so that's, that'swhat, how I feel, but um,
remember there have been yearsof of practice, right?
Speaker 2 (36:55):
uh, you might not know this, but as soon as I
joined zcorp in late 03, 22years ago, the first thing I did
was putting two resales,because for Intel, I was
traveling to Beijing andShenzhen monthly, every month,
from Denmark.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
So of course.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
I felt comfortable with China in 99, when you even
have a Starbucks in a forbiddencity.
But I put Beijing Longyuan it'sa local OEM back then, 22 years
ago as one of my resellers, andShanghai Union Tech.
They both are still aroundtoday, but I was taking a risk
of will they clone my product orwill they not?
(37:32):
Or their new 3D printing.
We were different technologyglue and powder versus theirs.
Union Tech was SLA and the fearof clones.
We thought that the only way tocounter this is a generic answer
that I have and my opinion,which is proven today.
So even after 22 years, there'sstill not a commercial clone of
(37:56):
the Z-Corp technology.
It's owned by 3D Systems today.
But because if you keepinnovating the resin, the glue,
the binder, the sequencer, thebinder anybody can reverse the
hardware and maybe even thepowder, but the binder is the
secret sauce, the softwareeverybody can clone.
If you continue to innovatethat every six months, they will
never be able to catch up.
(38:16):
So even to this day, there'snot a commercial Z-Corp clone in
China.
So it can't be countered bykeep innovating, stop having
fear.
Just keep doing your own stuff,swimming your own lane.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
That's the only way to counter clones, absolutely, I
mean, you can copy only so much.
I think China has kind of nowout of the face of copying.
I'm not saying it's a goodthing to copy other people
without permission and violatingcopyright.
There are consequences of that,I think you know.
In part, trade war is areflection of the anger behind,
you know these copyrightviolations.
(38:53):
However, now China isinnovating itself as well.
You know, I don't know enoughwith the 3D printing patents,
but what I heard in the news inthe biopharma side, american
companies are now acquiringcopyrights and licenses from the
Chinese biopharma researcher.
So we are also benefiting fromtheir innovation now.
(39:16):
Now, with the tariff, that willbe questionable profitability
and even feasibility in thefuture.
So that's just a sidetrack.
So, of all the trade shows thatyou have attended so far, you
mentioned a couple of reallyinteresting I wouldn't say I
mean possible unicorn company inthe future and you mentioned
(39:37):
there are a couple of companiesand you want to tell us what
those are, for example, theRapidPrint, liquidprint that you
were talking about.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
Well, it's always cool to look at cooler
technology.
So, at Rapid, what the threecompanies caught my eye and
remember I've seen a lot overthe last 22 years.
But RapidLiquidPrinting isextrusion into a GUI, a vat of
GUI like an aquarium, and theydo mostly silicone, just like
(40:08):
Linkster in France.
But they had a very good demo,live demo.
That was the first time I sawthe OLP technology in life and
it was quite big.
So that was cool how theysolidified in the GUI.
So there's supposedly nopost-processing.
Another could have a medicalimpact is the manifest, which
(40:31):
formerly was known as Vitro 3D.
That was interesting becausethey have rotational volumetric
AM, but it's still in itsinfancy.
But what I liked about them istheir go-to-market strategy.
So instead of selling to a fewpeople, they actually want to
collaborate with justuniversities and go together
with a handful of keyuniversities around the world
(40:54):
and discover killer applicationstogether.
So that's a much more cautiousand more realistic approach.
The third company that Iactually posted this morning
actually met the Swedishinventor doing Formnex because I
encountered him during my threeand a half years at Desktop
Metal.
But the whole notion of whatyou've seen over the last 22
(41:17):
years or more is for extrusion,fff.
If you have a print head, whatcomes in is what you extrude and
you want more material, moremulticolor.
You have multiple heads.
You saw that with E3D, you sawthat with an ISO print, you saw
that with the Prusa XL.
But their approach is why areyou changing the whole freaking
head when it's really just thefilament and the nozzle?
(41:40):
So the Bontech technology inthere is you can have an array
with much smaller nozzle toolinterchanger and I think that is
really exciting.
And when you couple that withfive or six axes, with the S4
slicer or Duet PCBs, then I'mexcited about the future, what
(42:06):
it can be able to do.
So 3D printing is only as goodas what it can make.
But having these technicalchallenges being resolved
meaning like changing material,different color, different
material property, but alsocounter the majority of the
industry.
The Z string is so crappybecause it's just adhesion of
(42:27):
layer by layer, but if you gonon-planar then you can counter
that and improve that.
So those are the excitingdevelopment that I am tracking
and that's why I go.
Where I've gone is I look forwhere's the market moving, where
should it go?
And then often, if you look atmy nine companies, I usually
(42:47):
jump in and be part of thatstory.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
So I'm assuming that you posted this new technology
somewhere on your social media.
I posted five this morning Idid.
Speaker 2 (42:58):
Awesome.
I will link to that.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
And I have to say you know, of all those social media
influencers, you're the firstperson that I got to know and
like and you're probably theoriginal 3D printing influencer
in the world I want to mentionthat it just was a hobby.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
And you know what I do anybody can do, it's just
share cool things.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
No, I don't think so it takes a lot of work.
I mean, here's the thing I wantto ask you.
You have a lot of informationon your infographics.
So tuan has an array of greatinfographics, or quite
informative, but you have to getinformation somewhere right?
So how, first of all, find thesource of this information, and
(43:42):
how do you like organize and howlong does it take you to even
create these infographics youwant?
Speaker 2 (43:50):
my secret?
Huh, well, you don't have to gotoo deep.
No, it's actually so.
I think I was a teacher in myprevious life, so I have a
booklet.
So I have a booklet that Ilearned very early in my career
is, I think, better on paper,because when you put it down,
you can move things around.
(44:11):
Down, you can move thingsaround, and what happens in the
booklet is when you have thisthought.
The truth about creativity is itdoesn't come in one go, it's a
compilation of a lot ofdifferent thoughts and it takes
time to simmer and sometimes youhave to collaborate.
So a while back, like give youan example of, I did one with
(44:34):
the sensor-based AM S-PAM.
So in the past it was justbinder jetting and they needed a
center.
Right, it was either metal FDMor metal binder jetting.
They needed a center.
But then Tritone had adifferent approach, but they
also need a center.
So then we're like huh, thereare many ways you can do
additively a green part or brownpart that needs to be sintered
(44:59):
and skipping deep binding.
So as I learn wherever I've gone, and over time all these
ex-colleagues of mine, they alsojump around.
So I have a huge Rolodex and inthis case, I work with Ben Arno
collaborating from his tech,from Tritone.
What were they doingdifferently?
And then we mapped out all theplayers who were doing what
(45:20):
technology, which print engine,and what you still need to
center to encounter.
What kind of shrinkage are yousuffering?
So it's a combination.
So back to LinkedIn.
My secret sauce has been acombination of because I've seen
a lot, I'm really veryselective.
(45:41):
It has been really cool, and ifit's cool for me, it's probably
cool for a lot of people,because I've seen a lot already
over the last two years and ifit doesn't impress me, then it
probably won't impress a lot ofpeople.
So it's a combination of coolstuff, interesting stuff.
Be first to announce and yeah,I spend way too much time on
LinkedIn, but it's also a verypowerful sales tool because 8
(46:05):
billion people a billion are onLinkedIn and they are decision
makers and it's part of the newfrontier for sales.
It's like if you're not onLinkedIn, you're not in sales,
because everybody being eveneverybody knocking on door,
flying around, knocking on door,setting up meetings, checking
(46:27):
in, checking out, do apresentation, and that's it.
The new frontier has changed.
By doing what I do over theyears, my reach is about 112,000
engagement comments and 12million eyeballs going through
my content.
So either you want to spendtime on your personal branding
(46:51):
or not.
I'm sorry to tell people thisyou have a personal branding,
whether you spend a second on itor not.
I'm sorry to tell people thisyou have a personal branding
whether you spend a second on itor not.
That is when they Google youand whatever they find, that is
the impression of your personalbranding, so you might as well
take ownership of it and tailorit and design it to what do you
want to be known for?
My secret sauce is I want toeducate, I want to inspire, I
(47:15):
want to share my personaljourney.
What I went through, and theworst thing that happened, was
not because it wasn't that bad,because where I ended up being
was where I stepped up.
So, so a lot of people goingthrough tough times right now
and to them I can say I've beenthere as well.
But sometimes it's because,maybe because you didn't move
(47:37):
yourself to your next chapter.
But you need to have a notch.
Had you got yourself, youwouldn't have that notch.
So it's gonna be okay and themarket will.
It's very cyclical.
It will go down and it will goup.
But you have to be brave, youhave to be strong.
I did take a break recently.
I almost thought about notleaving the industry but staying
(48:00):
close enough.
When I look at the fourthindustrial revolution, what were
the components?
And I thought robotics, ai,with like Makina Labs.
I was chasing that.
So I was at least close enoughwith an additive that will
converge, because the futurewill be a conversion of multiple
technologies.
So it was more clear to me 10years ago in 15 that it was all
(48:26):
going to be about metals, whenless than 5% of all the
exhibition halls were aboutmetals or talk about metals.
I saw the writing on the wall.
It was all going to be aboutmetals and I made bold
predictions about that and Iwasn't that wrong.
And so it's hard at this timeto figure out what is the next
frontier, what will happen infive to ten years and I think it
(48:46):
has to be when you talk aboutwhat's happening with tariffs
and reshoring and manufacturingfactors of the future, that is,
fully automated sensors,autonomous, with human eyes,
that can be placed anywhere,just need to add power In Boston
, in New York, in Frankfurt,doesn't matter, I think, going
(49:09):
beyond the labor cost.
I think that's the nextfrontier.
So I've been decoding what is ina fracture of the future, doing
multiple tasks.
And what can it do Isolated?
You can see a lot of robots cando fragmentedly, like you can
do incremental sheet forming.
They can do cement, 3d printing, building shelves of a home,
just a wall.
(49:29):
Don't hype it up with buildinga house.
It's just building the walls,shelves, or you're doing
composite, you're doingfurniture, but but that can be
resolved in one system if youjust have a tool changer,
learning from cnt.
If you have a tool change, youhave a machine that can do all
the materials that you can thinkof.
You can, freaking, even dobinder jetting spring if you
wanted to do binder jetting aswell.
(49:50):
So I'm trying to to decode whatone of my slides that I sent
you was my first take on whatcould be the microfactory of the
future that could betransported with just two
40-foot containers and bedeployed.
Speaker 1 (50:05):
Right, the microfactory concept is
extraordinary and I feel likethat is a topic for our next
podcast.
But I want to go just slightlywalk back a little bit about
building a personal brand thatyou were talking, because I
certainly think you did afantastic job doing that for
yourself and you're one of themost heard and also credible
(50:29):
voice in the industry.
But what?
But you obviously are anextrovert um.
It's it's very obvious, um,that you love being with people
and you get energized.
But what if, like someone who'svery introverted which I would
say in this industry there areplenty, you know, I think,
myself included believe or notthat?
Um?
(50:49):
So what are some advice thatyou would have for people who
aren't really comfortable withpeople meeting, people, hustling
, but also want to build a brand?
What would you say?
Speaker 2 (51:04):
It's really going back to one thing Be brave.
Okay, because that's how it allstarted.
And once you start being braveand take risk and you get
success, then you get moreself-confidence and then you
take bigger risk.
So I had a beautiful life.
(51:27):
I was an engineer, I gaveeverything to my siblings,
packed three bags and moved toAmerica in 2002, starting from
scratch On a L1B, and I might bedeported if I don't get a green
card.
So I think for any immigrantand luckily America has a lot of
(51:48):
immigrants you've got to havecourage, you've got to be brave.
You've got to have courage,you've got to be brave.
And that's what fascinates meabout entrepreneurship is you've
got to be brave, because in thebeginning I was actually not so
much an extrovert, but later on, when I start having
conversation with people, Ilearn and I realized that just
(52:11):
because you finish schooldoesn't mean you're done
learning for the rest of yourlife, and I start appreciating
learning from other people.
You can do that by readingbiography from other leaders
around the world and be inspiredby dead people usually, and you
can talk to them or have aconversation.
For now, ai will change that inthe future.
(52:31):
For now, ai will change that inthe future.
But having conversation willhelp you to gain more knowledge,
because the second industrialrevolution didn't happen by one
person.
It was actually in the Britishclubhouses tea clubs where the
right minds came together and wehad the great minds combined.
(52:53):
That's how you came up with thesteam engine.
So I was fascinated by that, bywhat if I connect with, if I
don't connect with people, Iwill never learn the bigger
picture of what could come.
So by connecting with people,but then you can do all that
from your living room or fromyour bedroom.
But there comes a time whereyou need to share.
(53:14):
Well, it was actually a rememberthe last hype.
The media were not educating 3Dprinting and there were a lot
of mistakes and confusion aboutwhat 3D printing was.
And I'm like I'm an insider.
Somebody should speak up,somebody should re-educate them
or correct the messaging.
(53:34):
So it started out of to try tocontain the bollocks that was
coming out from the media, andthat's how I started to train
people or share what I learned.
So when I joined Arcam after 10years in polymer, I couldn't
even find.
I Googled everywhere.
I couldn't even find a whitepaper, a tutorial, a webinar or
(53:57):
covers about 3D printing.
I want to know who are theplayers, how many players in
metals, what do they do?
How do they differ?
What verticals?
How much are the market share?
There was no data and I'm asales director for East Coast
and I need to learn this.
Otherwise I'll position myselfand I need marketing leads,
otherwise I can't sell.
So it was out of necessity.
(54:19):
But, going back to being brave,just share, just do it.
Really, I love the Nike songjust do it, but just sharing
what I knew my journey as Ijoined RK in June 14,.
I shared what I learned and alot of people benefit from that
because metal was on the rise.
Right.
Like I shared an analysis, myslide deck was presented at AMOG
(54:44):
, so actually anybody who wentto Jacksonville AMOG in 2015
would have a peek in what'shappening in 3D printing,
because that was my prediction10 years ago and it talks about
that in that.
Did you know?
One of my slides I repostedquite a lot is it took 20 years
for the first 1,000 industrialmetal machine to be sold and
(55:07):
then in 15,.
Then it only took 13 and 14,two years to sell the next
10,000.
And I predicted it would be1,000 in 2015.
I was wrong, it was only 950.
But then it just keeps ongrowing.
So by sharing what I knew orwhat I learned or what I
observed or what I think willhappen, luckily, so far my
(55:28):
experience has been it's been avery collaborative community of
3D printing professionals onLinkedIn and a lot of these are
dinosaurs and they were sharingtheir thoughts and ideas and
challenges and comments.
So together we were learningcollectively and that's why some
of the best high schools inAmerica is collective learning
(55:49):
the Harkness program at, forinstance, phillips Exeter
Academy.
Actually they were the founderinventor of that technology.
You learn collectively.
They don't have students and ateacher, one-way communication.
They only have one table, it'salways oval and the teacher is
just a facilitator, moderator,but they learn collectively and
I think doing that, taking thatonto the Internet on LinkedIn
(56:12):
and sharing what I have I have arough draft that onto the
internet on LinkedIn and sharingwhat I have.
I have a rough draft but becauseof the feedback then my next
slide gets even better.
So from time to time the slidesthat takes.
So I have like 20 differentslides working in my notebook.
That is simmering and it takestime.
And when it's ready, when is itgood enough to be published and
then get feedback.
(56:32):
But yeah, some of theinfographic, like metals, all
the market share, the particlesize, who's making the atomizer
and are they sustainable, arethey not, and what print engine
is using what particle size, andall that.
It took me months to have it,but I gave everything for free
and I think that helps to buildgoodwill, because another secret
(56:59):
is you get more by giving, notby taking absolutely.
Speaker 1 (57:03):
um, I mean, today you gave us an hour.
That's extremely valuable tothe audience.
Um, and what you just said,remind me of two books I've read
.
One is calledset, whichbasically means don't just focus
on one thing.
Basically it's just sayingdon't focus just your tunnel
vision, don't have tunnel vision, but open yourself to the world
, to opportunities, to differentconcepts, ideas, perspectives.
(57:27):
Don't jump into a conclusionquickly, just be open to
opportunities, into conclusionquickly, just be open to
opportunities.
And the other book is give andtake, which you just said, and
actually they tracked, you know,people who give or take or
versus neutral, like, whichmeans I give and also take, but
has to be equal, that kind ofthing.
(57:47):
And they track the success overthe careers of these people and
actually, actually, you know,is the giver actually come out
ahead at the end?
So I think you're a giver forsure in our industry Knowledge,
time, energy, advice.
So I'm incredibly appreciativeof what you're doing for the
(58:09):
industry and I certainly hope toinvite you back for more
in-depth conversation about aparticular elements that you
mentioned, because we certainlycovered a variety of things
today, but we didn't have thetime to really cover the depth,
which requires me to do myhomework too.
So thank you so much, tuan, fortoday the conversation, and
(58:31):
hope to see you again soon.
Speaker 2 (58:33):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (58:34):
The content of this podcast is for informational and
educational purposes only anddoes not constitute medical,
legal or financial advice.
The views and opinionsexpressed by the host and guests
are their own and do notnecessarily reflect those of
their employers, affiliates orany associated organizations.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce
Football’s funniest family duo — Jason Kelce of the Philadelphia Eagles and Travis Kelce of the Kansas City Chiefs — team up to provide next-level access to life in the league as it unfolds. The two brothers and Super Bowl champions drop weekly insights about the weekly slate of games and share their INSIDE perspectives on trending NFL news and sports headlines. They also endlessly rag on each other as brothers do, chat the latest in pop culture and welcome some very popular and well-known friends to chat with them. Check out new episodes every Wednesday. Follow New Heights on the Wondery App, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes early and ad-free, and get exclusive content on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And join our new membership for a unique fan experience by going to the New Heights YouTube channel now!
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.