Episode #98 | Meeting the Bioprinting Vascular Challenge: VoxCell CEO Dr. Karolina Valente - The Lattice (Official 3DHEALS Podcast)

Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Hi there, this is your host, Jenny Chen.
Welcome to the Laddest Podcastepisode number 98.
Today, I had the pleasure ofchatting with Carolina Valente,
who is the co-founder and CEO ofVoxcel Bioinnovation, a
Vancouver-based biotechnologystartup focusing on using 3D
bioprinting and tissueengineering to accelerate cancer

(00:23):
therapy and drug discovery.
Enjoy.
Please listen to the disclaimerat the end of this podcast.
Good morning, good morning.
Welcome to the pod.

SPEAKER_00 (00:36):
Thank you, Jenny.
Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_01 (00:39):
So, Carolina, I have known you for how many years
now?
I don't know.
Five, six, going to six almost,yeah.
I felt like I have known youever since you were born, quote
unquote.

SPEAKER_00 (00:52):
Because I remember basically born with this new
life of entrepreneurship.
Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 (00:59):
I remember the first time we had a Zoom call, uh,
because we first met virtually,I think it was during the
pandemic or something like that.

SPEAKER_00 (01:06):
It was 2020, yeah, 2020.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:09):
And you had a big poster behind you that has your
company name voxel behind you.
And and that was, I have to say,a very thoughtful, you know, a
way of branding yourself withoutany marketing budget, which is
great.

SPEAKER_00 (01:25):
And I remember, I remember that poster.
Uh that was one of our becausewhen the company got
incorporated, we had somesupport from a local, um, it's
called an innovation center herein Victoria, and they gave us
initial support to even pay forour incorporation papers.
So they were the ones um thatactually made that poster for

(01:48):
me.
And I remember that poster beingso low resolution that the logo
was like very pixelated.
So I would keep I would keepvery, very behind my screen.
So people would see from behindfrom like fat far and it would
look good.
But yes.

SPEAKER_01 (02:04):
That is funny.
Yeah, so for people who don'treally know Voxel really well,
uh, Voxel's whole name is VoxelBioinnovation.
Um, and obviously the founder,you, Carolina, and your
co-founders, why don't you talka little bit about the company
and then introduce yourself alittle bit?

SPEAKER_00 (02:26):
Um, absolutely.
So my name is Carolina, and Iwas born originally in Brazil.
So uh I have my background isactually in chemical
engineering.
Um, and then from Brazil, Imoved to Portugal to do my
master's in chemicalengineering, and that was the
first time that I touched thisinterdisciplinary field, which

(02:47):
is biomedical engineering.
So I was really doing ummembranes for blood oxygenators.
That's what my master's was oflike making synthetizing new
membranes for ECMO machines.
And then when during mymaster's, um I had I saw a talk
from someone from a professorhere from Canada, and I thought,

(03:08):
oh, that sounds great.
So came to Canada to reallyexplore biomedical engineering
and mechanical engineering.
And during my PhD, I was reallymy goal was to understand how
cancer worked from a mechanicalstandpoint.
Um, and I was using real biopsysamples from the hospital here,
and I was taking those sampleshome, and they would be falling

(03:31):
apart.
They were very hard to get.
And I thought there has to be away to do this artificially.
So I would say my last year ofmy PhD was my first brilliant
idea on how to create Voxel, andI finished my PhD and
incorporated Voxel a week laterwith the goal to really create

(03:52):
these uh tissues artificially tostudy drugs and study therapies
in a more efficient way.

SPEAKER_01 (04:00):
Now, when did the um the switch turn on from being a
scientist to funding a company?
That that is not I mean, we havea lot of PhDs in the world, and
most people don't form acompany.

SPEAKER_00 (04:16):
I know, and and I and I still I am a professor at
the same time that I am the CEO,so I still have this what I what
I like to say, this dual life,and I still have the academic
mindset, and then I'm operatingthe company with that business
and the commercialization headmindset.
And I think I don't think thereis a switch.
I think I've been I have beenable to efficiently operate in

(04:40):
both areas, but the businessside had to really um the
knowledge had to increaseconsiderably and very fast in
the beginning.
And the way that I did that wasreally getting involved with
incubators, accelerators, andreally talking to anyone that
was willing to sit with me andgive me some advice.

(05:00):
And advice it's not always easyto hear, it's not always
friendly.
Um, and in the beginning, whenwe started Voxel, the goal was
actually to sell printers.
And I remember that was fromyeah, that was the goal, and um
was to not to create the tissuesand this pivoting that we have
been doing right now on sellingthe product, not selling the

(05:23):
machine.
The goal was always to createtissues, but by selling the
machine.
So, and I remember one of myinitial conversations that was
six months in when someone saidthat's not a very good idea, and
that was a tough advice andwalked me through the entire
process.
And sometimes advice is tough,but it's necessary, and it's
what got us here, so itdefinitely makes a difference.

SPEAKER_01 (05:46):
I think I remember that actually.
I remember those conversations.
I was thinking in my head aswell.
And the funny thing is, youknow, I was given advice many
years ago.
Um, and I I should havelistened, is do not give anybody
else advice because nobodyreally wants your advice.
That's actually true.
But it's rare for people who aretruly open to advice and seeking

(06:11):
out because a lot of peoplesometimes people say, I want
advice, but not do they reallywant advice?
Probably not, and you offendpeople on the way.
But I'm glad that you were opento these.
Um, what are some of the othermilestones early uh in your
journey that you felt like itwas impactful or inspirational?

SPEAKER_00 (06:32):
Um, definitely having the community-driven
mindset.
So I think that makes a bigdifference, especially where we
are here in Canada in VC.
Life sciences is growingconsiderably.
It's the fastest growing spacein Canada, it's life science,
and then VC is number oneprovince on that.

(06:53):
And then really taking riding onthat wave, really surrounding
myself by that community that,as I mentioned, could give me
the contacts, could provide methe network that I needed fast.
So I think having that mindsetof being really, I cannot do
this alone.
I I that is a lot that I do notknow, and being aware of where

(07:16):
my limitations are, and justsurrounding myself by people
that know better than I do insome areas.
And don't get me wrong, I didsurround myself by people that I
thought new things, and itdoesn't, they didn't, but the
majority really guided methrough this process.
So I think that communitymindset really helped me in the

(07:36):
beginning.

SPEAKER_01 (07:37):
And yeah, you mentioned that you went through
a lot of accelerators andincubators and all kinds of
programs.
I remember you posting onLinkedIn all the time of
different things.
I was like, how can you manage?
Do you know like how how manydid you actually went through?
Did you actually keep track ofit?

SPEAKER_00 (07:52):
I think we went through more than probably six
to ten, I would say, somethinglike that.
A lot of them.
And it was very, it's veryinteresting, right, Jenny,
because you look back of how Idon't like to say naive that
because I don't think I wasnaive, but I think how much I
did not know and how much Ineeded to know to get to where

(08:15):
we are.
And I still don't know a lot.
So we're still learning andsurrounding ourselves by people
that uh can complement uh thelack of skills that we have.
Um, but I remember one of thefirst incubators that we did in
the beginning, they had a prizefor the best pitch at the end,
and this was an incubator fromOntario Ridge.
And we were participating as theonly BC company, and that it was

(08:39):
during COVID time, so that waspossible.
And the prize was$15,000Canadian, one five, and we won.
And I remember sitting and Iremember sitting in my chair and
thinking at that point that wasso much money, you know what I
mean?
Like that was so much money thatcame for free to us.

(08:59):
So these nice memories reallyshape and keeps me grounded on
doing this role with Vox Out.

SPEAKER_01 (09:07):
Yeah, I think one wisdom I'm hearing from you is
that you are fully aware of thethings you don't know that you
don't know.
And because of that, you'reactively seeking out knowledge,
and I think that's keeping thatcuriosity really is very
important.
Um sorry.
Now let's pivot a little bit tothe technology in the company

(09:27):
itself.
Um, tell us a little bit aboutthe core technology of the 3D
bioprinting platform.

SPEAKER_00 (09:34):
Yes, of course.
So Voxel has what I call threepieces of the puzzle that come
together to create our tissuemodels.
One is our very high resolutionbioprinter.
So we are using, we takebioprinting, a regular
bioprinter, and then we put itvery, very high resolution.
We combine that with our inks.
So I like to call our inks asour bioprinters cartridge.

(09:57):
So, similar to a printer, youhave a home, you buy a
cartridge, that's what our inkis.
So the ink is the cartridge forour printer.
And then the third piece of thepuzzle is our software that is
what creates the 3D structuresthat we developed and creates
the blood vessel structure.
What we have as a combination ofthese three processes a tissue
that is 3D representation, soit's a representation of a human

(10:20):
tissue that displays a complexblood vessel network.
And although the technology isvery complex, the idea is very
simple.
Can we use that little piece oftissue and inject drugs the same
way that drugs are injected inyour body through the blood
vessels?
So, can we use those samples totrack how drugs move through the

(10:40):
blood vessel and interact withthe disease?
And that's the idea behind voxeltechnology.

SPEAKER_01 (10:47):
And which part of this system is for sale?

SPEAKER_00 (10:52):
The tissue itself.
So, right now, what we do isreally we focus on putting
vasculature at the center of ourtechnology.
The tissues are producedin-house, and the tissues can be
um commercialized directly todifferent institutions or
different research centers orpharmaceutical companies, but we
can also run the servicesin-house.

(11:14):
So if you have a drug and youhave results and you don't want
to go through onboarding a newtechnology, for example, you
just want your results, you cansend us the drug and we'll run
the entire service for you.
So, with us, you're gonna getinformation of efficacy.
That means does that drugactually work?
And does that kill the cellsthat you're targeted to?

(11:37):
And then, second, you're alsogonna get information on
vascular toxicity.
Is that drug toxic to theendothelial line or to the blood
vessel itself?
And of course, you're gonna getinformation on distribution of
that drug throughout the entiretissue, and if that drug is
permeating throughout thetissue.
Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (11:57):
Yeah, and also I want to clarify you know, the uh
clinical versus preclinicalstudies and what role this is
playing, and what role yourproduct is playing on this
complex journey of a drugdiscovery process.
Um you are in the pre-clinicalphase, you're focusing on that,
which is typically when animalstudies are done to make sure it

(12:20):
is at least safe in somethingthat's live.
I mean, how are you guyssuperior than the current
existing models?

SPEAKER_00 (12:28):
Absolutely.
So exactly.
We play in the pre-clinicalspace, and we are a technology
that is very, very highresolution.
We do have high throughput.
Um, what makes us different thaneverything that is out there is
the vasculature, is the bloodvessel.
It's really putting the bloodvessel at the center of the
technology to have um additionalinformation earlier on and the

(12:50):
ability to detect that failure,and that's early signs of
failure earlier in the drugdevelopment pipeline.
And the beauty of our platformis we are using human cells.
So this is human biology.
This is not mice biology, thisis really human biology.
So, in terms of translation, theexpectation is higher
translation here.

(13:11):
So, with the new shift in thisfield in terms of reducing
animal models and getting to apoint where we are having now we
are seeing the FDA coming outwith plans of phasing out of
animal models in different typesof therapeutic routes.
Voxel has these in mind.
The goal here is can we giveinformation to researchers, to

(13:32):
pharmaceutical companies, toCROs earlier on to have a better
to decrease this high attritionrate and to be able to detect
that failure earlier on beforeyou get to animal models, with
the goal to also reduce the useof animal models.

SPEAKER_01 (13:50):
Now, I have to, I mean, we we both know that human
tissues are complex, especiallyif it's in a human body, is a
lot more complex than a model orany any model that we have for
pre preclinical studies.
Um, and and you focus on onecritical factor, which is
vascularization.
And there are also like a lot ofother uh other things that you

(14:12):
don't cover, like immunology,maybe um inflammatory process,
you know, that's related andstuff like that.
Like how much a percent you canyou guess that you can cover in
terms of okay, so this drug isgonna fail, the like the
probability of a drug that'sgonna fail clinical.

SPEAKER_00 (14:34):
Yeah, hard to say that.
And that's the that's thepercentage that we are looking
for here.
It's the it's what'stranslation.
Basically, the what the questionis, is what's the percentage of
translation that we canguarantee with this platform?
And the truth is, um, we don'tknow yet.
What I what I would say isalthough we are putting
vasculature at the center, thatvasculature, because we have the

(14:56):
software and we have fullcontrol of the software, and now
we are introducing machinelearning to really enhance this
vessel generation creation andreally introducing human data
and animal data throughpartnerships right now that we
are creating.
Um, but because we own thatsoftware and we own the
knowledge behind, we can reallyforce these tissues to have, for

(15:17):
example, vessels that areinflamed.
We can force these tissues tohave hypoxic area that on the
other way it wouldn't be verydifficult to mimic in any other
scenario, right?
So this is the complexity thatwe are going with the
vasculature.
And in addition to that, what weare doing combination is really
focus on multicellularstructures.

(15:38):
As you said, the whole humanbody is quite complex.
So having, for example,mimicking the cancer with just
the cancer and the blood vessel,that's of course is one step
towards translation, but we arenot quite there yet.
So, what we are doing right now,we are adding healthy cells, so
we are introducing strombascells to all the tissues that
make sense, and we are alsoadding right now immune cells.

(16:00):
So we have been doing a lot ofwork with T cells right now, and
T cells are introduced throughthe blood vessels and are
extravagating from the bloodvessels into the disease area.
So we have been introducing thisum with that goal of
multicellular components withthe ultimate goal of getting as
close as possible to thatcomplexity um of the human body.

SPEAKER_01 (16:23):
You know, as much as I've seen your presentation so
many times over the years, Istill have like gaps of
knowledge.
Absolutely.
Um I remember um you know veryvisually um impactful was this
really complex vascular system.
And also you've shown thedigital model, how the perfusion
happens through the model.
Yeah, how is is this amicrofluidic chips that has

(16:47):
cells lined up lined up?
Where did the where did thecancer go?
Where are the cancer cells?

SPEAKER_00 (16:53):
Yeah, yes, absolutely.
So um it is a microfluidicdevice.
So I so you imagine amicrofluidic channel that it's
empty, fully empty in thebeginning, just a full channel,
simple channel.
What we come is we take our bioink that's mixed with our cells
already there, we inject in thechannels that get loaded into

(17:13):
our printer.
Our printer then polymerizes theink, so the ink goes from a
liquid into a gel once inside ofthe microflux.
Inside everything is doneinside, everything is done fully
sterile, and everything's donewith cells.
Um, so we have we spend a lot oftime controlling the viability
of this process um andoptimizing for different cell

(17:34):
lines.
So and so after the printingprocess is done, the vasculature
is printed as a hollowstructure.
So you have your entire 3Dtissue with your cancer cells,
your stroma cells, and yourvasculature is hollow at that
point.
So you take out from theprinter, wash everything that is
non-cross-linkable, that didn'tcross-link, sorry.

(17:54):
Um, so you remove anything, andthen you come with endothelial
cells.
Endothelial cells are theninjected into the vasculature,
and then they seed because theylove to really form that lumen
around um cylindrical structure.
So then they seed.
So after a few days, this tissueis then ready for us to do QA,
QC.

(18:15):
We then establish what thatbaseline in terms of
permeability through thevasculature is.
So we have a baseline, we trackvascular toxicity, so make sure
again we are operating under thebaseline before we or ship that
sample or start testingsomeone's drug in that sample.
Does that make more sense?

SPEAKER_01 (18:33):
Yeah, I just want to clarify in terms of the um
caliber, the the microfluidicchannels are actually much, much
larger than the tumor finalprint, right?
Because you have two photonlaser-based.

SPEAKER_00 (18:46):
Yeah, so our structure, yeah, our structures
are in the in the millimetercubic uh scale.
Our microfluidic is in thatscale too, Jenny.
And on top of that, I thinkwhere you're trying to get is if
the blood vessel is theimportant part in here, does
flow go through the vasculatureinstead of just floating
everything around and having theoverwhelming, which would mimic

(19:08):
almost dipping this in a in awell-plated full of cell media,
basically.
Yeah, yeah.
So what we do is what we do isright now because we are
operating on them usingmicrofluidic plates that are uh
offered and commerciallyavailable.
So we have a partnership withPBD.
So we use those plates, butwe're also creating our own
plates to fit the size a littlebit better.

(19:29):
But what we do, we we havesomething that is called um flow
guides that guide the flow.
And so it's uh it's a it's apattern that we create in the
entrance of our channel.
So that guides the flow whenyou're injecting the cell media,
the serum, your drug directlyinto the vasculature.
So what we are guaranteeingright now is at least 75% of the

(19:49):
flow is going through thevasculature of the tissue, and
we have some flow around whichwe want that too, because the
flow around is what we would bemimicking that being hydr in a
hydrated state, too, havingblood vessels around.
So that's how we kind of are umoptimizing this.
So I hope that answers yourquestion.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (20:10):
Yeah, certainly.
And uh you said you're gonnadirect print onto the
microfluidic.
That means the microfluidic chipthat you select has to have
certain transparency andproperties yourself.

SPEAKER_00 (20:19):
Yeah, but that's for everything that we do.
So the entire system, um, theplate, the tissue, everything is
fully optically clear.
And what the beauty of that, thebio ink, which is also again
something that we spend a lot oftime developing to make sure
it's optically clear, the beautyof that is you can then fit
these tissues in any type of labyou have.

(20:42):
You're not worried about themicroscope being, you know,
illumination from the bottom,from the top, confocal, it
doesn't matter.
The tissue is fully opticallyclear in a fully optically clear
window.
So you can use that in any typeof scenario you want.
Um something, something that weare doing now in Q4, and
hopefully will be done by theend of the year or beginning of
next year, is um we are nowmaking these tissues removable

(21:06):
so people can do sectioning umand just and just like a biopsy
sample, right?
So you would section.
That would be amazing.
Yeah, yeah.
So so this we are readyinstituting that because we have
been dealing now with skin ummodels.
So we are migrating away fromthe oncology space, and with
that focus of vasculature beingthe center of the technology,

(21:27):
which again was another pivotingbefore it was really oncology,
and right now is vasculatureplays a role in a lot of other
things, is putting us in askinny space.
And the skin space isinteresting because when I
started this company, I wasreally focused on let's inject
the drugs through thevasculature, but the skinny
space you inject on top, and youneed to know if it's reaching

(21:51):
the vasculature.
So we are doing exactly theother way around.
So we have an atopicalapplication, and then we are
still tracking what is happeningin the vasculature and seeing if
the drug is going from diffusingfrom surface to the bottom,
which is an again a use ofvasculature but in an indirect

(22:12):
way, which is pretty fascinatingtoo.

SPEAKER_01 (22:14):
Yeah, uh totally.
And you mentioned that youactually internally generate uh
pre-clinical data for companiesif they want to.
What kind of data do youprovide?
Is this completely identical tothe typical animal lab models um
reports as well?

SPEAKER_00 (22:33):
I I would say similar.
What people get in animal modelsand we are not able to replace,
and no one is at this point, isthe admin profiles, right?
So when the drug is interactingwith the heart, when the drug is
interacting with uh theexcretion system, all of that we
can't process.
What we can provide informationnow is on efficacy.

(22:54):
Does that drug work?
What is the initialconcentration required for that
drug work?
Um, so we do IC50 measurements,EC50 measurements, uh, and we
have that drug profile withconcentration, so you know how
much concentration of that drugneeds for this specific tissue,
and then we can try toextrapolate from there, and then

(23:14):
you have an idea if thatconcentration is even viable.
Um, and then we also haveinformation which is very
important on vascular toxicity,that is how that drug is
interacting with the endotheliallining and moving from there.
Is it even extravagating?
And that's really important forlike TCRT to T cell um type of

(23:35):
therapies because that is activeextravasation through the blood
vessel.
It's not through diffusion, it'snot it's active extravasation.
So we are able to mimic and seethat interaction, and also see
if it's disrupting theendothelial lining.
So that is something that um itcan only be seen in animal model

(23:56):
studies, or even worse, that issometimes it passes animal
models and then it's seeingvascular toxicity in people.
So, what we want is toillustrate the vascular toxicity
earlier on in our platform.
And we have been doing thisright now with different
collaborators.
So, this type of um models iswhat we are creating for people.

(24:18):
Efficacy, vascular toxicity,being able to measure
distribution and permeation ofthat drug concentration, and
also because the tissue isviable for three weeks, Jenny,
which is another huge advantagecompared to what is out there,
we are also able to docombination studies.
So, for example, if you're doinghormonotherapy with uh

(24:40):
chemotherapy, so we can do thistype of long-term studies and
combinational studies too.

SPEAKER_01 (24:46):
So it sounds like um, I don't know if you can make
the claim that your model ismore superior than the animal
model, at least in terms ofvascular toxicity evaluation.

SPEAKER_00 (24:58):
Yes, that's the that's what we are aiming for.

SPEAKER_01 (25:01):
Have you done any other uh comparison in terms of
you know the data you generatedcompared to existing animal
models?
Because that's what we're reallytrying to replace here.

SPEAKER_00 (25:11):
Yes, so we we I spend a lot of time, you know,
the company is five years rightnow, and I spend a lot of time
on this one word that's in mymind the whole time that is
translation.
Translation, right?
So, how do we prove translation?
How do we prove the value ofthis technology?
And I think we are closer nowthan ever.
And I think right now we figureout a way to do that.

(25:33):
And the way that we are doingthat is with third-party
validation.
So we have current customersthat have animal model data and
they have clinical data, and weare using their drugs in our
tissue.
So our goal right now is forgetabout voxel comparing with what
is out there.
We are using other people'sdata, like we are using real

(25:54):
drugs that are trying to go tothe market to prove that
translation.
So that's what I thought thisyear was um the you know, the
nice pivot that is putting usinto the right track to put to
prove this with an externalpartner, as someone, you know, a
real pharmaceutical company.
So these had implications inother um aspects of the company

(26:17):
too.
It had implications on, forexample, we were getting ready
to do a larger round, and rightnow we are doing a smaller round
to give us time to get that verysolid data with these customers
that we have right now.
So then we go for a larger roundwith a much better position.
So it it's it's interesting toalso see for people listening to

(26:38):
this podcast, is also see howsome decisions, which sometimes
they seem to be purelyscientifical, they do have other
implications throughout theentire company.

SPEAKER_01 (26:49):
Right.
I mean, your goal is not toprove science, your goal is also
to maintain and grow thecompany, which is a different
metric for most scientists andto make an impact.

SPEAKER_00 (27:02):
And to make an impact, that's it.
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (27:04):
And I mean, that more than 90 or maybe even 95%
of the scientific discoveriesthat we have these days, you
know, whatever that you see inPubMed that's published cannot
be commercially translatable,which means it won't impact your
life or my life.
So I mean, I don't think it's ameaningless work, I think it's
still meaningful uh to haveregular and a lot of these

(27:26):
different kinds of scientificdiscoveries.

SPEAKER_02 (27:29):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (27:29):
But from if you know what how what it can do for you
and I in the next three to fiveyears, probably nothing.

SPEAKER_00 (27:37):
It's it's limited, and I think this is also one of
the challenges with you know,even this 3D bioprinting space
that is you see different groupsworking in different niche
areas, and it's it's there is noregulation, not much regulation
right now on this, and it's hardto see how that would really
translate to impacting peopledirectly.

(27:59):
So I'm thinking about that, youknow, how the future is shaping
too.
I think the important part isalso thinking about the future,
in my opinion, is fully, fullyinterdisciplinary.
There is no more, you know,unique field that is operating
individually.
And I think the future ofbioprinting right now, for
example, Voxel is doing 2PP, butthat's very small.

(28:22):
That's we will not be able toreplace organs with this
technology.
We are not gonna be able toreplace full animals with this
technology.
We need support from otherpeople that have knowledge in
these larger areas, largerbioprinting applications, and
really thinking about thattranslation with from a
biologist standpoint.
So, this is what I believe thefuture of this field is and how

(28:44):
we're gonna be able to see theimpact um more meaningfully.

SPEAKER_01 (28:49):
Yeah, very well say said.
And also you mentioned in uhjust just now about
partnerships.
And uh and and you know, I'vebeen hearing this.
Okay, I I am as an amateur whenI entered the space, I would say
six, seven years ago, uhprobably even worse than you, is
in the pharmaceutical industry,partnership is such an important

(29:12):
word.
And so why don't you unpack thisa little bit?
And how did you learn how to dothese partnerships and what kind
of partnerships are valuable toyou or have been valuable to
you?

SPEAKER_00 (29:24):
Exactly.
So the way that Voxel engages iswhat we call right now is
collaborations and partnerships.
That's our goal, that's our pathright now, at least for this
quarter and the next quarter, isaligning ourselves with other
impactful companies out therethat already, as I said, have
some data on animal and clinicaltrials, and they want to test

(29:45):
their drugs with us.
So if we think about likeputting our commercial head,
that that is not a veryfinancial beneficial beginning
because at this point you aredoing a lot of in kind.
You're also doing Because whatyou need is that data.
And the truth is, the data here,the value of data, it's we can't

(30:06):
put a price.
The value of data of having apartner trusting you on their
own drug, shipping you theirdrug, and being able to sit with
you and walk through their dataand try to compare and prove
that translation, with again theultimate goal of creating an
impact for both companies, forall the pipelines that the
client is producing to that hasno value.

(30:27):
So we have been that has amassive value.
So we have been navigating thisyear journey by really talking
to everyone and really going toevery single conversation very
well prepared.
So when we go to talk to a bigfarmer, we already know what are
the therapeutic areas they'reinterested in.

(30:48):
We developed 3D CAD models toshow how the tissues would look
like if they were to engage withus.
And it's all um it's allproposed models, but what we are
trying to do here is animportant thing: connecting the
dot for the client.
In an area in which there is somany of these new technologies,

(31:11):
organs on a chip, organoids,spheroids, like everyone is
coming out with something new.
My goal and my role is toconnect the dots for the client.
You give me the problem, I'llgive you the solution.
And meanwhile, my entireconversation with them is trying
to get to that problem part andtrying to say how Voxel can
connect the dots.

(31:32):
So I think really sometimes umfounders go to these
conversations with one back fitsall.
It does not.
People only care for theirproblem, they don't care what
other problems you're solving,they only care how you're gonna
solve their problem.
So make that make them see thatfaster.

SPEAKER_01 (31:50):
Yeah.
You know, this is the secondtime in a row I hear this.
You gotta customize your salespitch to every single person you
talk to.
It's not one size fit all.
So it was really I I think youhave graduated, Carolina, um of
being the uh the bestsalesperson.
Um, I literally just had theexact same conversation, and it

(32:13):
was unprompted.
Like, you gotta customize yourconversation.
You cannot just pitch as ifyou're pitching the robots, you
know.
That is totally true.

SPEAKER_00 (32:24):
But I will I will add what type of collaborations
we are looking for, it's peoplehere that are in this and
looking forward to thisinnovative space, and really
with their mindset of how can wereduce animal models and how can
we have meaningful informationearlier on with a human
platform.
And so if you want to haveinformation on efficacy,

(32:46):
vascular toxicity, and using amodel that is really like a
biopsy sample, get in touch withus and we'll make this possible.

SPEAKER_01 (32:54):
Yeah, one question I have uh in my mind is all these
um you know governmentannouncements about you know
from EU started decades ago tothen FDA, the modern
modernization act.
Is that right?
That's the that's the act.
And then and then recently youalso mentioned 3R collaborative.
That is in Brazil, right?

SPEAKER_00 (33:15):
Well, the 3Rs, they had a 3Rs conference in Brazil,
but 3Rs is a group, it's allover the world.
And I think it actually, andit's I think actually it started
in in Europe.
So um, but it's it's the idea ofreplacement, reduction,
refinement use of animal model.
So it's a community of peoplethat are working in this type of

(33:36):
technology, like Voxel orresearchers that are really um
wanting to decrease animalmodel.
So that's community in which weum we see people from organoids,
we see people from spheroids,everyone in this new class that
is called NEMS that stands fornew approach methodologies,
which is new methodologiesaiming to reduce animal model

(33:58):
testing.

SPEAKER_01 (33:59):
My question is first of all, the government already
put their stance there, saysdon't use animal models, because
I I've heard many, many reasons,and one of the most important
ones to me is it doesn't workvery well.
It doesn't work, there's notranslation.
Translation is very poor, yeah.
So, but it's not illegal stillbecause they really have no
other way to do things nowadays.

(34:19):
So, okay, the policymaker says,Okay, you can't do this, but the
the drug developers, like, we wegot no other ways of figuring
things out.
How how how does it eventranslate?
Is this just a gesturing fromthe policymaker without any
support to the community to say,okay, now we can give you some

(34:40):
support to achieve that goal?

SPEAKER_00 (34:42):
I think I think let's let's start unpacking
animal models.
Gold standard for the longesttime, right?
It still is the gold standard,it still is.
Let's not lie about it.
Still is the gold standardtranslation, especially in
oncology, less than eightpercent.
So it doesn't make sense.
It's really bad.

SPEAKER_01 (35:01):
Not even 50%.

SPEAKER_00 (35:02):
No, it's eight.
And so it's really bad.
So what what FDA, EMA, thethey're creating plans to phase
out animal mods, and I thinkwhere you're trying to maybe
connect the dots here is yeah,there is a plan, but there is no
action.
There is a plan without anythingtangible, right?
So, where we are seeing is theplan is the starting point, and

(35:25):
we have been seeing a lot moretraction this year for Voxel
because of this announcement,especially this year when they
came with uh phasing out animalanimal models for monoclonal
antibodies.
Um so we're seeing a lot of moretraction.
So I think you're right, thereis no action right now.
But what this is doing, Jenny,is people need to get on it now.

(35:46):
If they're gonna go and startreally trying to onboard a new
technology, onboard a newmethodology, right?
And try to prove translation,they need to get on it now.
So CROs are starting to reallytake into consideration this uh
new methodology approaches,right?
Okay.
The new approach methodologies,NAMS community, um, Charles

(36:07):
River, especially, like theyhave a whole group right now
that is really interviewing allthese companies and trying to
learn more about this newapproach methodology.
So I think it's there is nosolid, tangible action, but it's
creating a shift in mentalityand you know, change is hard.
So a shift in mentality isalready getting us the

(36:28):
conversations and it's alreadygetting us the ability to talk
about Voxel.

SPEAKER_01 (36:33):
Right, just because they made an announcement, it
doesn't mean it's illegal to useanimal models anyway.

SPEAKER_00 (36:37):
It's not illegal, no, it's not illegal.
It's still gold standard, yeah.
It's still the gold standard,but the plan is to phase out,
and then the EMA has um they aremuch more serious.
So EMA is the Europeancommunity, right?
The European division, similarto the FDA.
So they are really trying toreally stop animal models
eventually.

(36:58):
So thinking about thatovernight, pharma is changing
overnight.
So they are trying to get on tothe new technologies now.
So this is the moment to learn.
This is the moment to get in intouch with people developing
these alternative approaches.

SPEAKER_01 (37:13):
Sorry to just kind of um staying on this topic
because it's I just can't wait.
I cannot fill the gap in mymind.
It's like, okay, the policymakersays ideally we want this to
happen, but not providing anykind of financial or legal
backing uh for the process iskind of mind-boggling.
Like it's almost like I want toheal all human beings under the

(37:35):
sun, but I am not giving out adime for the process.
Like, I'm not sure how thatworks.
Did the admin to the government,especially for Europe, who has
been on this for decades, umprovide any funding specifically
for this topic?
I mean, to put money behindtheir words and something like
that.
I'm just curious.

SPEAKER_00 (37:55):
Oh, there are definitely new grants.
There are definitely a lot moregrants coming up in this area.
We see a lot, we see a lot oflike um, especially Johnson and
Johnson, they have thesechallenges that's a lot of them
on its own new approachmethodologies right now.
And as I mentioned, CharlesRiver has their own group.
The group is called A Map, and Iand I don't really remember what

(38:18):
stands for.
Uh, let me Google here veryquickly.

SPEAKER_01 (38:21):
We we can figure out later and put it in the show
notes.

SPEAKER_00 (38:24):
Alternative methods advancement project, which is
really sticking to finding thealternative approaches.
So we are seeing a lot moretraction and we are seeing more
grants in terms of funding inthe US, hard for me to speak on
that, but in Canada, we areseeing a lot more investment in
in life sciences, that's forsure.

SPEAKER_01 (38:44):
Yeah, I do think that changing mindset itself
helps.
Absolutely, yeah.
Because if something hasn'tworked for I could make
centuries or maybe even, yeah,then we should, and with all the
new technologies, we should lookfor a new ways of doing things.
And yeah, I agree, even thougheven though things are still

(39:04):
slowing for you guys, and changeis hard, and change is hard,
right?

SPEAKER_00 (39:09):
So there is a there is also that educational piece
in here that is important.
So it's also something that isimportant for our only investors
to recognize that it there hasnever been a better moment to be
investing in this type oftechnology.
There has never been a bettermoment for me to be working on
this type of technologies, butas you mentioned, it's a plan,

(39:30):
it's not an there are no actionsyet.
So these movements are stillgonna take time and um and
really absorbing the technologyis gonna be slowly, so patience
is required here too.

SPEAKER_01 (39:43):
Um, you mentioned that company, your company is
kind of um getting into newareas now.
What is your immediate futurefor Voxel?

SPEAKER_00 (39:53):
Our immediate future for Voxel 2026.
Our goal is two, two main goals.
One, translation with a thirdparty.
That's it, proving thattranslational piece with a third
party.
So we have contracts right now,they are fully signed, that are
they have already startedprojects, so that's proving the
translation.

(40:13):
And then the second piece isreally focusing on
commercialization and reallyorganizing this company from a
business and a corporatedevelopment standpoint to really
focus on that pipeline.
So now that we provetranslation, let's grow this
company and let's really focuson that revenue piece and then
um commercialization.

SPEAKER_01 (40:35):
And as you know, nowadays I would say biotech
industry as a whole isexperiencing quote unquote
winter.
Um, either big pharma or smallpharma or biotech companies are
all experiencing that.
I would say globally, I was justin Asia, it's the same thing
over there, and everybody wasputting money in AI, in

(40:56):
computing.
Um, can you guys benefit fromthis other revolution elsewhere?

SPEAKER_00 (41:03):
Um absolutely.
So, we as I mentioned, we areimplementing some machine
learning in our software, oursoftware right now.
It takes physiologicalconstraints, so it takes
parameters that we define at acertain range to create the best
vasculature.
So, putting machine learning andintroducing some of the animal
data that we are dealing withright now, and some of the human
data will make it a little bitsmarter and will make it better

(41:26):
and make it more realistic.
The way that I see this AIrevolution, this what we call in
our area in the pre-clinicalarea, we call this in silical,
that is that simulation.
That is there.
So we are in vitro, animalmodels are in vivo, and then the
AI sit on the in silical, thatis how we call that area.

(41:48):
I see them as complementarytechnology.
So I see them as, as you said, anew revolutionary way to mimic
molecules and to mimicinteraction of molecules with
proteins with the human body,but I see that the has the
translational piece is big forthem either, right?
So it's also very, it's also toovery big for them.

(42:08):
So being able to prove thattranslational piece is also
gonna be very important.
So that's where Voxel cancomplement this type of
platforms.
They don't need to go tomonolayers, they come directly
to us from that molecule.
We can then test in our platformis a in already in a human-like
scenario.
So they come as our potentialclients too.

(42:29):
That's what I was gonna say.

SPEAKER_01 (42:30):
That's like a huge area of partnerships you can
reach out for.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, because they're getting alot of funding for these uh AI,
AI generated just drug discoverypipelines.
They have to have some cellularevidence that it's gonna go from
computer to human right away.

SPEAKER_00 (42:50):
No, no, no, and I think what is interesting is uh
it would be good to get to apoint where um we would have you
know a full pipeline, right?
So you go from in silico, thenyou have like what would be your
new gold standard for in vitro,what would be your new gold
standard for in vivo?
Is there even a gold standard orare we eliminating this and
going to a small pool ofcandidates on a phase one

(43:14):
clinical trial with a smallergroup of people?
So it would be good to havesomething that would become a
little bit more templated um andum that people would recognize a
little bit more easily.

SPEAKER_01 (43:25):
Yeah, fantastic.
Now we talked about 2026.
What about a little bit longerhorizon, three to five years?

SPEAKER_00 (43:32):
So vasculature as the focus, moving away from
oncology right now and goingthrough different types of um
disease modeling and healthymodel modeling to really proving
that translation.
And I want to get to a pointwhere, as you mentioned, the
holy grail for me has alwaysbeen can we actually make an
impact to patients?

(43:52):
I started this company.
Um, well, I started with breastcancer during my PhD because my
mom had breast cancer and sheactually passed last year from a
thank you.
Um, and um, and my goal wasalways to make an impact to
patients.
How do we make an impact topeople?
So I want to get to a pointwhich we are working towards

(44:15):
that personally derived space.
Can we make patient samples?
Can we work in that personalizedspace, creating something that
will have been more impactfuldirectly to the patients?
And we started working not justwith pharmaceutical companies
and CROs, but also with researchcenters, with hospitals, with

(44:36):
health organizations, right?
And being able to create thesepatient-derived samples.
And we are doing this right now.
We have a partnership with agroup in Germany in which we are
testing some of their therapies,and we are grateful enough that
we are testing patient-derivedsamples.
So we are already putting us inthis personalized space, but
really evolving to how we createa business model that works for

(45:00):
hospitals, too.
So that is the piece that Ihaven't really uh cracked.
But we are also one step at atime, focus is very important
because we don't want to spreadourselves thin, as you said,
especially in the currenteconomy, right?
Where money is not flowing,we're being very conservative.
But every RD project and everypartnership that we take right

(45:22):
now, Jenny, has been with themindset of how can we help the
client, but also how can we helpus?
And how can we help us to thenext stage of this company?
How that data, how can Ileverage that data beyond this
client to also continue workingwith this client, but also to be
able to gather other clients orto put Voxel into a brand new

(45:44):
space that will open new doors.
So a lot of these partnershipsare now have been with this
mindset.

SPEAKER_01 (45:49):
And you have some recent news from partnerships,
and you want to just make aquick announcement for those?

SPEAKER_00 (45:55):
I do.
I actually have two news.
One of them is we have justclosed the deal, which is funded
by IREP.
We have closed the deal withstem cell technologies.
So stem cell technologies andyes, it's a very big private
company here in Vancouver, BC.
Um, they have more than 2,000employees, they have been a

(46:16):
global leader in the cellculture space, and they are
developing um um endothelialcells that are primary derived
endothelial cells.
So we are going to be testingthose endothelial cells in our
platform, and then being able toprovide now, see being able to
recognize how those endothelialcells really that are more

(46:37):
human-like, uh, how they fit inour tissue, how they behave in
our tissue, and being able toprovide a tissue that is even
more human-like uh than ever.

SPEAKER_01 (46:48):
And what's in for stem cell technologies to do
this monitor?

SPEAKER_00 (46:52):
For for them, it's also being able to really
generate this data, again,thinking on that data and that
piece of data that is um thatcan be tied to marketing
materials, but also can be tiedto really focus on this new
approach methodologies, newfields that is incorporating
there to these cell lines insomething that is now 3D.

(47:13):
Makes sense.
So really incorporating thoseendothelioprogenital cells into
this 3D environment and gettingone more step closer to this
human-like scenario.
And the second piece, and thisis so the stem cell
collaboration that has been umgoing around for a few days, but
the second piece, and that's newas of today.
Voxel has a full new websitethat is voxel.com.

(47:38):
We have a new name, we have anew logo, so we have dropped the
bioinnovation.
We're just calling ourselvesVoxel now.
Yes.
Um, we have we have a new logoand we have a brand new website
where all the partnerships umare disclosed there, and then
you guys can take a look.
So voxel.com has just gotreleased today, and I waited

(47:59):
until today to get released atthe same time as this recording,
Jenny.

SPEAKER_01 (48:03):
Well, this recording is not gonna be out for another
week.
I'm sorry.
Gonna talk to my intern aboutthis.
Um but but maybe by then uh youwill have no errors on the
website.

SPEAKER_00 (48:17):
Absolutely, absolutely.
At least everyone has checkedand we made any recommend any
changes recommended.
Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 (48:25):
I have to say, I like the the new name better
because it's so much easier.
Yes, voxel, that's it.
I mean, who else is calledvoxel?
Nobody else.
I know, yeah.
And it do you know where thevoxel name comes from?
Well, voxel, it makes sense ofthe volume, right?
It's like uh pixel.

SPEAKER_00 (48:40):
Yeah, so actually, yeah, that is true, but the
actual term voxel, which isV-O-X-E-L, it's what what the a
laser does in a sample, in thatfocal point that a laser, when
it's going to cross-link asample, that focal point is
called a voxel.
And that focal point is ourentire resolution, it lies in

(49:01):
that tiny spot.
So then we put a twist.
So that's where the name comesfrom.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (49:06):
Speaking of which, let's take let's play a mental
game.
Um imagine that you are super,super well funded, not not
scrappy little startup.
Now you have like, I don't know,a hundred million dollars.
So funding is not an issue.
What would you do with thatmoney right now?
Um a couple of things.

SPEAKER_00 (49:26):
Um by a boat, no.
The money, the company needs themoney.
So we we do we our partnershipshave been right now, Europe and
North America.
Again, let's think about FDA,EMA, that's where the changes
are, right?
So that's the our where ourcurrent base is going to be.
So we need to move a little bitour way off Canada and being

(49:49):
able to have subsidiary in theseareas too.
Having subsidiaries in theseareas will really allow us to
export tissues and to do thisservice agreement much more
easily than right now gettingsamples from Germany, you know,
getting samples from Belgiumhere.
So increasing our reach,increasing our global
opportunity by havingsubsidiaries.

(50:10):
That's something that I want todo.
And of course, we need moreprinters, we need more senior
team members, and we are hiringnewer people right now, but
really thinking on thatpossibility of um spreading
globally the company.
How can this company have thisglobal impact?

SPEAKER_01 (50:27):
That's the right answer.
So when you have more money, youjust want to make more.
That's it.
And I'm just kidding.
No, you're you're trying to beimpactful as well, obviously.
That's actually I think theultimate goal that we're trying
to achieve.
Would you be open to use uh tousing other companies' printers?
Perhaps.
Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 (50:46):
Absolutely.
And then right now we already sowe have cell link printers
in-house.
We already use cell linkprinters for some of the
projects.
Um, um, and um, and then yeah,absolutely.
As I said, the future here isinterdisciplinary, it's a it's
it and it should be.
And I don't know if you caughtwhat I said, but the ability of
us to print in plates also putus in many other spaces that

(51:11):
people listening can think of uhwhat we can do for them.
So that is a lot of things thatwe can do here.
Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 (51:19):
Um, also you're located in Vancouver.
Uh Victoria, Victoria, close toVancouver, yeah.
Oh, Victoria.
It's part part of BritishColumbia nonetheless, right?
Yes.
Okay.
Yeah.
And and it's hard to amiss thatthere's another big startup in
3D bioprinting as well, which isaspect.
Um, I I don't know aspect aswell as you guys, but um, I do

(51:43):
want to interview them someday.
Good, yeah.
Well, how do you feel aboutthem?
Uh, are they your directcompetitor?
You know, who are the otherpeople that you're watching?
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (51:53):
Yeah, so they so they are not our direct
competitors.
I actually um I I love the factthat they are here and they are
local.
They came from UBC, uh,University of British Columbia.
The the beauty about havingaspect in here in our backyard
is the fact that they set up thefoundation, right?
So they set up that educationalpiece.

(52:14):
My dog is barking.
They set up that educationalpiece that was needed um for
really people to understand whatbioprinting was and for people
to understand what tissueengineering was.
So having them here reallyhelped us to communicate the
message to investors here, tocommunicate the message to
customers around here much moreeasily.

(52:36):
Um, what they do very well is umAspect Bioprinter is an
extrusion-based printing.
So, what they do very well isthey can print very large
structures that we cannot,right?
So they have contracts by nowwith Novo Nordics, they are
doing well, but really with thefocus of printing their large
structures.
On our end, we are not thinkingabout organ replacement, like

(52:58):
they are going on that path oforgan replacement.
Our goal is really to stay inthe preclinical space.
This is a path that does notrequire FDA approval, so it can
be definitely very muchstreamlined in terms of
commercialization versus theorgan transplantation piece.
So, not direct competitors, um,but have definitely helped

(53:19):
setting up the foundation neededfor us to be now active in this
space, and I respect them verymuch.

SPEAKER_01 (53:25):
Yeah, I remember actually went to one of their
earlier conferences hosted atUniversity of Victoria, and it
has to be University ofVictoria, I was in.
I'm trying to remember.

SPEAKER_00 (53:35):
Yeah, maybe, or even UBC.

SPEAKER_01 (53:37):
I think UBC UBC.

SPEAKER_00 (53:39):
Yeah, exactly.
UBC, yeah.
Yeah, they are UBC, they areUBC, uh, and I am at the
University of Victoria.

SPEAKER_01 (53:45):
Yeah, I see.
Okay, yeah.
I remember it was a verywell-run uh conference where GSK
and a bunch of farmers showedup.
Um, so they were very early inthe pharma talk.
So yeah, um, yeah, one of thesedays, hopefully, um hopefully I
can get them on the pod as well.
Yeah.
Um now we're reaching the end ofthis podcast, and I always

(54:07):
trying to get a little bitpersonal with you.
Uh with our guest is um we wementioned very briefly that you
were born in Brazil and thenmoved over first, actually, to
Portugal.
I had no idea you actually madea stop there, but it makes sense
because you speak you speakPortuguese fluently.

SPEAKER_00 (54:23):
You know, every everyone says that, but you
know, Portugal, Portugal, allthe classes, everything was in
English because it's it's a partof Europe, right?
So they have a lot of studentsshipping around, like moving
around, uh shifting around.
So the entire university wasfully in English, and it was
actually my first, I would say,first full introduction to
having to figure out everythingin English, and then I went from

(54:46):
Lisbon to here, did not starthome, move it from there to here
to Canada.

SPEAKER_01 (54:51):
Yeah, so that's where you you had your ESL class
or English as a second languageclass.

SPEAKER_00 (54:57):
That is hilarious.
I didn't think about that.
Exactly.
I could write the exams inPortuguese, though.
So that was an option there.
We could write the exams inPortuguese if you were
Portuguese speaking or if youwanted to, but everything else
was in English, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (55:12):
Now um, let's talk a little bit just about culture
transition.
I mean, you were in Brazil andthen to Europe and then now to
Canada.
I mean, culture, not just as alife experience, but also
building a team that's largelyCanadian.
Um, how do you understand thedifferences in culture and then
build a different kind of youknow, a culture for Voxel in

(55:33):
itself and your team?

SPEAKER_00 (55:36):
That is that is something that is so valuable,
and a lot of people don't speakabout that.
That is that is the fact thatyou're growing a team, but that
is a fact that you're growing ateam with a different cultural
background than you have, withdifferent values than you have,
and in different, I'm gonna bevery blunt in here, different
common sense, because commonsense is different in different
cultures.

(55:56):
That is very true, right?
It's different.
So the assumption, so in thebeginning, I went through a lot
of assumptions that common sensewas the same, that I didn't need
to teach certain things.
And the truth is you operateaccording to the people you
have.
Right now, Voxel is in a muchmore mature phase.
The group of people that we haveis completely a completely

(56:17):
different shift than when westarted, a much more senior
group of people, it's a muchmore mature group of people.
So that is a lot less uhhandhelding here than we had.
But I think it's making surethere are a couple of things in
my mind the whole time.
One of them is clear is kind,unclear is unkind.

(56:39):
It's independent of anyone'sbackground, independent of my
background, is message shouldalways be as clear as possible.
And that is something that I'mI'm I have to work constantly by
being someone from uh Englishnot being my first language.
So making sure that mycommunication is as clear as

(57:01):
possible, but theirinterpretation of what I said is
also aligned.
So I'm always saying, like, whatdid you hear?
Let's make sure we are alwaysaligned before we move forward.
So communication being clear issomething that is very
important.
The second piece, Jenny, isCanada is a very um, it's a very
um, it's a very diverseenvironment.

(57:23):
So we are very grateful here tohave more than 50% of our teams
being immigrants.
And I think on a positive sense,what I bring from that immigrant
mentality is that it doesn'tmatter for me where you come
from, it doesn't matter yourbackground.
I am looking for people that aregonna, you know, wear the shirt
with me, swear in tears, andthey are gonna grow with me, and

(57:47):
they wanna stay and they wannastick around and they wanna do
better.
And understand that um beingpart of a startup, which is
something that is veryimportant, it's it's a roller
coaster.
Some days are great, some daysare terrible, and some days are
great and terrible in the sameday, and it brings some repeat.
So aligning, having people thathave the same mentality is very,

(58:12):
very important.
A diverse team with a differentbackground, but at least with
the same values and that samementality that is whatever it
takes in this phase.

SPEAKER_01 (58:22):
You make your speech makes me want to join your team,
I have to say.
Oh, you should.
I'll carry a little bag for you.
I told you every time.
I think I told you every time Isee you, it's like Carolina,
please let me carry your bag.

SPEAKER_00 (58:38):
I I know it's too heavy, it's too heavy the whole
time.

SPEAKER_01 (58:43):
So now that you've been through so much, and I
agree with the emotional ups anddowns for CEOs in a startup is
uncomparable to any other job.
And I don't know how you cansleep sometimes.
Um, I already have problemssleeping without having
problems.
What do you have advice foryounger people, uh, young
entrepreneurs and even studentsin school right now?

SPEAKER_00 (59:07):
Um, I would say for let's start with students in
school, you have a good idea,try it out.
There has never been a bettermoment in like entrepreneurship
globally to just try having anew company.
It's much easier than it wasbefore.
It's much easier to raiseinitial seed money than it was

(59:28):
before, especially from grantsand other incentives.
And um, so I would say go forit.
You want to do something, justgo for it and try it out.
This is the moment.
It's a technology area.
You can you can check everythingonline nowadays.
You can double check if you havea good idea, but go for it and
don't be afraid.
For people that are alreadyrunning their companies and

(59:49):
they're starting this toughjourney that is going to be
biotech, it's be patient.
I think patience is somethingthat is very, very important.
And the second piece that I WishI knew from earlier on when I
received the advice of oh youcan't sell printers, that's so
bad.
And it's because of this, isn'tthat?
Um, it's not, don't be afraid ofpivoting.

(01:00:12):
Pivoting is the beauty ofgrowing a company.
You know, your initial prototypeis not a product, is a tool,
it's a tool for you to go togrow, it's a tool for you to
evolve.
So, with that mentality, thereis pivoting is necessary, and
you just need to adjust thenarrative.

(01:00:33):
You just adjust the narrativeaccordingly.
And I would say my last piece isresilience.
That's it.
You rinse and repeat and you doagain.
And if that is getting tiringand you and if you know it, you
just rinse and repeat and do itagain.
There is no other secret.
Some days are gonna be 50 no's,and some days are gonna be 50
yeses, and um you just need tokeep pushing.

(01:00:56):
So that's that's my advice.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:58):
That's incredible, very wise.
And I can I think I can takesome of that advice as well.
Um, do you consume any kind ofmedia regularly?

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:07):
I have I have I have uh three books that I would say
I read um one of them, two ofthem recently.
One of them is my all-timefavorite book ever.
Okay, all time favorite.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:18):
All-time favorite first, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:20):
The power of habit.
Okay, the power of habit isCharles Um De Hung, I think.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:26):
I don't know what that's actually just read it
this year.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:29):
Yes, it's my favorite book of all times, and
um, and it's brilliant.
Uh, and every I would say everytwo to three years I read it
again, and because it speaks ina general sense, but also with a
scientific terminology, blocksdifferent parts of my brain
every time um I read.
And then one of them, two that Iread recently, one that was

(01:01:51):
useful in my entire life beyondbusiness, it's called Crucial
Conversations.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:58):
Yeah, I read that too.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:59):
Yeah, and that one is like it's really, really
good.
And that is for your personallife, for for my teaching life,
for everything, being able tohave the tough conversations.
Um, yes, and then the last onethat I got from our lead
investor, actually, that gave methis book.
Um, and very relevant for Voxel,it's the Challenger Sale.

(01:02:21):
Um, and the Challenger Sale,it's called The Challenger Sale
Taking Control of the CustomerConversation.
And that book is fascinatingbecause it really talks about
products that are socustomizable that is not you
create and it flies from yourshelf because that's what Voxel
is doing, right?
The tissues are fullycustomizable, you can change the

(01:02:42):
cell lines, we can do whateverwe want.
So, how do we bridge that gap tothe customer?
How do we connect the dots onsomething that is so
customizable that when youpresent to someone, it's almost
like a blank screen.
They can have so manypossibilities that they don't
know where to go.
So, this book really explainshow to dominate the sales

(01:03:03):
approach in this customizablespace.
That's one book I haven't read.
That sounds fascinating.

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:09):
Very good book, it's a very good book.
Yeah.
Thank you so much for therecommendations.
And I'd have to say, all thebooks that you have recommended
is something that you have toread several times.
Yes.
And I have the experience thatI've read a bunch of books, but
then like scratching my head,it's like, I thought it was very
good, but I don't remember whattheir key points were.
Yeah.
So I think it's definitely booksto on the bookshelf for you to

(01:03:32):
keep to go back to.
Those are very, very goodrecommendations.
Thank you so much.
Now we are at the real end ofthis podcast.
Do you have any call to actionor one-liner you want to
conclude?

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:45):
I would say the mission for Voxel is really to
accelerate therapies, allowingtherapies to hit the market
sooner into the hands of peoplewho need them.
So the call for action is tospread the message on the
amazing work that my team isdoing here.
And really, collaborators'partnerships, if you're
listening to us, get in touchwith me and go take a look on

(01:04:06):
our new website, voxel.com.

SPEAKER_01 (01:04:09):
Will do.
Thank you so much, Carolina.

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:12):
I'll see you soon, hopefully in JP Morgan.
Yes, absolutely.
Looking forward to that.

SPEAKER_01 (01:04:17):
This podcast is for educational and informational
purposes only.
The views expressed do notconstitute medical or financial
advice.
The technologies and proceduresdiscussed may not be
commercially available orsuitable for every case.
Always consult with a licensedprofessional.

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Episode #98 | Meeting the Bioprinting Vascular Challenge: VoxCell CEO Dr. Karolina Valente

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode #98 | Meeting the Bioprinting Vascular Challenge: VoxCell CEO Dr. Karolina Valente